2015 06-04Meridian Planning and Zoning Meeting June 4, 2015
Meeting of the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission of June 4, 2015, was called to
order at 6:00 p.m. by Chairman Steven Yearsley.
Present: Chairman Yearsley, Commissioner Patrick Oliver and Commissioner Gregory
Wilson.
Members Absent: Commissioner Rhonda McCarvel and Commissioner Ryan Fitzgerald.
Others Present: Machelle Hilll, Bill Nary, Bill Parsons and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll -Call Attendance:
Roll -call
X Gregory Wilson X Patrick Oliver
Rhonda McCarvel Ryan Fitzgerald
X Steven Yearsley - Chairman
Yearsley: Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. At this time we would like to open the
regularly scheduled meeting of the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission. Let's
begin with staff report.
Hill: Roll call.
Yearsley: Or -- sorry. Roll call.
Item 2: Adoption of the Agenda
Yearsley: Thank you. Next thing on the agenda is the adoption of agenda. Can I get a
motion to approve the agenda?
Oliver: Mr. Chairman?
Yearsley: Commissioner Oliver.
Oliver: I move we approve the agenda.
Wilson: Second.
Yearsley: I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda. All in favor -- all in favor
say aye. Opposed? Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
Item 3: Consent Agenda
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A. Approve Minutes of May 21, 2015 Planning and Zoning
Commission Meeting
B. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP 15-
008 White Water Saloon by Stan Cole, Cole Architects Located
1646 N. Meridian Road Request: Conditional Use Permit for a 673
Square Foot Expansion to the Existing Drinking Establishment in
a C-C Zoning District
C. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP 15-
007 Carl's Jr. at Chinden and Linder Crossing by John Nelson
Located Northwest Corner of Chinden Boulevard and N. Linder
Road Request: Conditional Use Permit Approval for a Drive-Thru
Establishment in a C-C Zoning District Within 300 Feet of a
Residential District and Existing Residence
Yearsley: Next thing on the agenda is the Consent Agenda and on that one we have the
approval of the May 21 st, 2015, Planning and Zoning Commission meeting minutes, the
findings of facts and conclusion of law for approval of CUP 15-008, Whitewater Saloon
And the findings of fact and conclusion of law for approval of CUP 15-007, Carl's Jr. Is
there any comments or questions on that? If not can I get a motion to approve the
Consent Agenda?
Wilson: Mr. Chairman?
Yearsley: Commissioner Wilson.
Wilson: I move that we approve the Consent Agenda for May 21st, 2015.
Yearsley: Just approve the Consent --
Wilson: Consent Agenda.
Yearsley: All right.
Oliver: Second.
Yearsley: I have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda. All in favor say
aye. Opposed? Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
Yearsley: Before we go into the action items I'd kind of like to give a brief synopsis of how
this process will work. We will open up each project one by one and we will start off with
the staff report and the staff -- the staff will present their findings of how the project
adheres to the Comprehensive Plan and the Uniform Development Code with staff
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recommendations. At that time we will have the applicant come forward and he will
present his case for approval and, then, if there is any comments or changes to the staff
report he will make them at that time. The applicant will have up to 15 minutes to present.
After the applicant has had a chance to talk, we will open it up to the public for their
chance to -- to speak. There is a sign-up sheet in the back for each individual project.
Each person wanting to testify will be allowed up to three minutes. If they are speaking for
a larger group and there is a show of hands and those other people that they are speaking
for aren't supposed to come up afterwards, they will be given up to ten minutes if they are
speaking for a larger group. After everybody has had an opportunity to speak, the
applicant will have a chance to come up and respond to the comments from the audience
and he will be given up to ten minutes to do so. After all of that has gone through we will
close the public hearing and, then, we will discuss and deliberate and hopefully make a
recommendation of the project to City Council.
Item 4: Action Items
A. Public Hearing Continued from May 7, 2015: RZ 14-007
Southridge Estates Subdivision by DBTV Southridge Farm, LLC
Located South of W. Overland Road Between S. Linder Road and
S. Ten Mile Road Request: Rezone of 3.05 Acres from R-15 to
TN-R; 1.67 Acres from R-4 to R-8; and 0.83 of an acre from R-8 to
R-4 Continue and Renotice Public Hearing for May 7, Planning
and Zoning Commission Meeting
B. Public Hearing Continued from May 7, 2015: PP 14-017
Southridge Estates Subdivision by DBTV Southridge Farm, LLC
Located South of W. Overland Road Between S. Linder Road and
S. Ten Mile Road Request: Preliminary Plat Approval Consisting
of 167 Single -Family Residential Building Lots and 329
Common/Other Lots on 48.56 Acres of Land in the R-4, R-8 and
TN-R Zoning Districts
Yearsley: So, with that I would like to open up the continued public hearing from May 7th,
2015, of RZ 14-007 and PP 14-017, the Southridge Estates, and let's begin with staff.
Parsons: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, before you on the hearing outline
this evening I presented to you that the applicant has not notified staff of their intentions to
move forward on this application. However, prior to the hearing tonight I did receive a
phone call from the applicant Corey Barton himself, requesting continuance to the next
available hearing, which would be your June 16th hearing. He also provided -- if you
recall, this item has been continued for several months for the sole purpose of discussing
the architectural details for the proposed subdivision and that is why we have been held
up for so long, because he's trying to pull those together and provide those to you. I did
receive an e-mail from the developer with his proposed architectural standards and those
elevations, but, again, he has not provided any direction on how he wants to proceed this
evening. My recommendation before you this evening is grant the developer that two
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week continuance to the next available hearing of June 16th. At that point with the
elevations and the architectural details that I have received this afternoon, that would give
them a chance to at least come back before you, present those findings or those
elevations to you and, then, hopefully, have you provide a recommendation on to City
Council from there. I will stand for any questions you may have.
Yearsley: So -- are there any questions? So, at this point we have -- well, three options.
We can approve as -- and send it to Council. We can continue it or we can deny it. So,
I'm not sure what you guys would like to do with that, what your thoughts are.
Oliver: Mr. Chairman?
Yearsley: This is for the Southridge and -- please.
Nary: Sir. We cannot have you talking from the audience, sir.
Oliver: So, it just sounds like he's just not got all his ducks in a row yet and needs just a
little bit more time to prepare to make it official.
Yearsley: Okay.
Oliver: So, I'd like to, if I could, make a --
Yearsley: Absolutely.
Oliver: I'd like to move to continue file number RZ 14-007, PP 14-017 to the hearing date
of June 16, 2015, so it will allow Mr. Barton to prepare to have his presentation ready at
that time.
Hill: Excuse me. That would be the 18th of June.
Oliver: Oh. I thought you said -- sorry. June 18th. Correct.
Yearsley: I have a motion -- sorry. I have a motion and a second to continue file number
RZ 15-007 and PP 14-017 to the hearing date of June 18th. All in favor say aye.
Opposed? Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
C. Public Hearing: AZ 15-006 Dunwoody Lot 5 by Michael and Linda
Williams Located 1/4 Mile South of E. Chinden Boulevard on the
East Side of N. Locust Grove Road Request: Annexation and
Zoning of 1.57 Acres of Land with an R-2 Zoning District
Yearsley: Next one on the list is public hearing of AZ 15-006, Dunwoody and let's begin
with that staff report.
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Parsons: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission. Before you this
evening is the Dunwoody Annexation and consists of 1.57 acres of land and is currently
zoned RUT in Ada County. This parcel was created with a subdivision that was done in
the county back in the early '80's, I believe. At that time there was a restriction -- a deed
restriction on this parcel that limited development on this site for 15 years. Since that time
that deed restriction has been lifted and the applicant is here tonight to discuss annexing
the property in order to develop one single family residential home, as you can see on the
concept plan to your right. Access to this proposed development will be from Locust
Grove. You can see the adjacent property to the south and to the north are currently in
the city, but no connectivity was required with those developments. So, the only access
point to this lot at this time will be via Locust Grove. Staff is recommending a
development agreement with the annexation request. We have received written
agreement from the applicant with all conditions -- or DA provisions in the staff report.
With that I would stand for any questions you have. Oh. Excuse me. Again, I would
request annexing with the R-2 zoning district, so consistent with that low density
residential Comprehensive Plan land use designation. With that I would stand for any
questions you have.
Yearsley: Are there any questions? Would the applicant like to come forward? Please
state your name and address for the record.
Williams: Mike Williams. Current address is 3819 Collister, Boise, Idaho. Future
residence will be the Dunwoody lot, hopefully. Basically we are just requesting -- it's a
single family residence, approximately 2,900 square feet. I have a rendering of the
drawing that we are working with an architect on. But we are just looking for approval to
zone to annex into the City of Meridian under R-2 zoning and we agree with all terms -- or
all findings of the committee as far as putting the property back 25 feet from the road. We
have received stuff from the Ada County as far as the accessing for the driveway and we
will meet all requirements of lighting and all that stuff that is proposed. Never done this
before, so I'm not sure what to say.
Yearsley: You're doing great. Are there any questions? No? Thank you very much.
Williams: Easy enough. Thank you.
Yearsley: The only person I had signed up was Michael Williams, which was already
here. Is there anybody else that would like to comment on this application? If not we
won't need to have him come back up. Can I get a motion to close the public hearing on
file number AZ 15-006?
Wilson: Mr. Chairman?
Yearsley: Commissioner Wilson.
Wilson: Move we close the public hearing on AZ 15-006.
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June 4, 2015
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Oliver: Second.
Yearsley: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing on AZ 15-006. All in
favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
Yearsley: Any comments? You know, it's a pretty straight forward project. My guess is
he needs to be annexed for services and I don't see any issues with it. So, if there is no
other comments, I would entertain a motion.
Wilson: Mr. Chairman?
Yearsley: Commissioner Wilson.
Wilson: After considering all staff, applicant, and public testimony, I move -- I'd
recommend approval to the City Council of file number AZ 15-006 as presented in the
staff report.
Oliver: Second.
Yearsley: I have a motion and a second to approve file number AZ 15-006, the
Dunwoody lot. All in favor say aye. Opposed? Congratulations.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
D. Public Hearing: CUP 15-010 Papa Murphy's by James Wylie
Located 2723 S. Bartlett Request: Conditional Use Permit
Approval for a Restaurant in an L-O Zoning District
Yearsley: Next item on the agenda is the public hearing of the CUP 15-010, Papa
Murphy's and let's begin with the staff report.
Parsons: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission. Next item on the
agenda is the Papa Murphy's conditional use permit. The subject site consists of .29
acres of land currently zoned L-O within the city and is located at 2723 South Bartlett
Avenue. This property was before you in 2013 known as the Jack's Place Subdivision,
which you approved three office lots. The proposed Papa Murphy's restaurant will be
located on one of those office lots that was approved with that subdivision. To the north of
this site we have a veterinarian clinic zoned L-O. To the east we have single family
homes within the Jack's Place Subdivision that was approved with these office lots. To
the south are commercial lots -- or commercial property called Mussell Corner and, then,
across -- or to the west around Meridian Road and, then, a church property. The
applicant is here tonight to, again, discuss developing one of the office lots with a 1,500
square foot restaurant. Under the UDC a restaurant use requires a conditional use permit
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in the L-O zoning district, so that's why they are here. This application does not consist of
a drive-thru as one is not allowed in that zoning district, so this is merely a standalone
restaurant business where customers will come into the subdivision, access the site, from
the local street, pick up their pizza and go home. The proposed site plan and elevation
before you this evening is consistent with the development agreement that was approved
with that subdivision back in 2013. The parking lot will have shared access, will come off
the local street along the east boundary and, then, there is a cross -access agreement with
the adjacent office parcel along the south boundary and that was created with the
recordation of the plat. The elevation this evening consists of stucco and architectural
shingling. Again, this is consistent with the elevations that were approved with the
conditional -- or with the development agreement in 2013. Staff has received written
testimony from the applicant. They are in agreement with all conditions of approval as
well. One other item to mention is because this item -- or his property is zoned L-O they
will be restricted to the hours of operation between the hours of 6:00 a.m. and 10:00 p.m.
as required in the zoning ordinance. Again, the applicant has provided testimony in
agreement with all conditions. I will conclude my presentation and stand for any questions
you may have.
Yearsley: Are there any questions? No? Would the applicant like to come forward?
Please state your name and address for the record.
Wiley: James Wiley. 1676 North Clarenden Way in Eagle, Idaho.
Yearsley: Can you speak into the microphone.
Wiley: James Wiley. 1676 North Clarenden Way, Eagle, Idaho. Mr. Chairman, Members
of the Commission, The City of Meridian allows for a food service user in an L-O zone
location with the approval of a conditional use permit or CUP. I hope to gain your positive
recommendation. Thank you for your time and consideration.
Yearsley: Thank you. Are there any questions? No? I don't have anybody else signed
up for this. Is there anybody that would like to testify on this application? Please come
forward. State your -- state your name and address for the record, please.
Conway: My name is Judith Conway. I live 2796 South Black Spur Way in Meridian. I'd
like to, first of all, thank you all for your work on -- for the City of Meridian. My husband
and I moved here from Illinois in January 2014. We love the climate. We love the city.
Thank you very much. I'm not opposed to this restaurant going in there. I live in the
subdivision that is just east of Jack's Place. Jack's Place is a very small subdivision. I live
on Black Spur, which T's into Whitehall and Whitehall, which curves around and becomes
Bartlett and in our subdivision and just to the east of us is Meridian Greens. To the south
of us is Observation Terrace and Observation Heights -- or Point and, then, our
subdivision, which is actually known as Larkspur No. 2, continues on to the north and
becomes Larkspur No. 1. So, there are quite a few homes in there. The access off of
Meridian Road into this whole subdivision that I mentioned is on a street known as
Edmonds, which would be just south of where this restaurant will go in and it is -- I would
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invite all of you to come around 11:00 o'clock at night on Meridian Road and try and find
Edmonds Street, because it's very, very dark and we are seeing an increased amount of
traffic in there and it's a dangerous intersection. I'm not asking for a traffic light, but when
the restaurant is built there is going to need to be some type of increased lighting there at
the intersection or I'm just really concerned that there are going to be accidents. Also I
was a bit dismayed when I heard that a restaurant was going in, but with Papa Murphy's
the nature of the business people won't be staying there to eat, so it will be in and out, so
thank you very much for that and, you know, thank you, city, but -- and many are
interested in being able to walk there to pick up a pizza and take it home, but I just would
like to caution everyone, that's a -- I'm really pleasantly surprised that there hasn't been an
accident at that intersection. We also do have quite a few children that live in our -- in our
subdivision, so all the parents are just going to have to be really cautious, because -- for
the increased traffic that will be there. So, thank you for listening to my rambling, but,
really -- and thank you for everything you do for the city. It is a great place to live. Thank
you very much.
Yearsley: Thank you. Is there anybody else that would like to come up? With that would
the applicant like to come up and have a chance to rebut or to comment on this
application?
Wiley: As Mr. Parsons mentioned, we are willing to comply with the hours of operation
between --
Parsons: 6:00 a.m. and 10:00 p.m.
Wiley: Yeah. I believe they open at -- Papa Murphy's usually opens at 10:00 or 11:00
a.m. and, then, they close around 8:00 or 9:00, depending on the franchise. So, these are
avoiding the rush hour -- you know, the times of the day where there is going to be the
most amount of traffic going on and it's not going to increase the amount of traffic during
those times that are already in excess with traffic. Yeah. That's all, I guess.
Yearsley: All right. Any questions?
Oliver: Maybe you could help answer the question. I assume there is a business open
from 6:00 to 10:00, but you will have lighting in your plan?
Wiley: Yes. We do have lighting in the plan. We don't -- we haven't gone through all the
construction plans yet, we are still in the preliminary stages, so I can't really speak
anymore about that, but --
Oliver: So, that will add a little bit of lighting to the intersection right there.
Wiley: Yes. I mean just having a building there with lights on will help anyway, but --
yeah.
Oliver: Thank you.
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June 4, 2015
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Yearsley: Thank you. Bill, I have a quick question. No, not for you. Just for Bill. Sorry.
The intersection improvements are already built; correct? Or will they be building those
improvements with this -- with this project?
Parsons: Yeah. Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, that infrastructure
improvement was done I would imagine -- I believe there should have been a street light
at the intersection of Bartlett and Edmonds, but maybe not one at the Edmonds and
Meridian Road entrance into the site and the reason being is sometimes because
Meridian Road is a state facility it's hard for the developer to work with ITD to get
streetlighting standards. We have run into that as a city quite often on Chinden, where we
haven't -- ITD necessarily doesn't want lighting along the roadways or -- or at least get to
easement, but until we work all those details out with ITD lighting will not go in in certain
cases and this may be one of those cases where the city didn't have the authority or didn't
have an agreement with ITD in order to get lighting at that intersection, so -- but we do
typically get them at those intersections and the applicant will more than likely have
lighting with their restaurant use, but I would also caution the neighbors that under our
ordinance we don't like to have commercial developments have light trespass onto
residential properties, so lighting will have to be contained on the restaurant site itself, not
spill over onto the adjacent properties.
Yearsley: Okay. Any other questions? With that I would entertain a motion to close the
public hearing on CUP 15-010.
Wilson: Mr. Chairman?
Yearsley: Commissioner Wilson.
Wilson: I move that we close the public hearing on CUP 15-010.
Oliver: Second.
Yearsley: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing on CUP 15-010. All in
favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
Yearsley: Comments?
Oliver: I think it's a nice addition. Papa Murphy's is definitely a positive business location
right there that won't interfere with anything. I think it will be a nice addition. So, I'm
definitely in favor of that.
Wilson: And as the residents said, I think it compliments the -- the subdivision, so I would
be inclined to approve.
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Yearsley: Okay. All right. Then -- and I understand the -- the public's concerns about the
light at the intersection. Unfortunately, it doesn't fall under their purview to fix that remedy
and as you heard that ITD is not friendly enough to -- to allow us to do stuff with that point.
Hopefully we can get something in there to make that a little bit better. So, with that
would entertain a motion.
Oliver: Mr. Chairman?
Yearsley: Commissioner Oliver.
Oliver: I move that we -- excuse me. After considering all staff, application -- applicant
and public testimony, I move to recommend approval of file number CUP 15-010 as
presented in the staff report for the hearing date of June 4th, 2015.
Wilson: Second.
Yearsley: I have a motion and a second to approve file number CUP 15-010. All in favor
say aye. Opposed? Motion carries. Thank you.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
E. Public Hearing: AZ 15-005 Stonesthrow Subdivision by Steve
Arnold Located Approximately 1/4 Mile South of E. Fairview
Avenue on the West Side of N. Mount Hood Avenue Request:
Annexation and Zoning of 10.26 Acres of Land with an R-40
Zoning District
F. Public Hearing: PP 15-006 Stonesthrow Subdivision by Steve
Arnold Located Approximately 1/4 Mile South of E. Fairview
Avenue on the West Side of N. Mount Hood Avenue Request:
Preliminary Plat Approval Consisting of Thirty -Five (35) Building
Lots and Six (6) Common Lots on 9.22 Acres of Land in the R-40
Zoning District
G. Public Hearing: CUP 15-009 Stonesthrow Subdivision by Steve
Arnold Located Approximately 1/4 Mile South of E. Fairview
Avenue on the West Side of N. Mount Hood Avenue Request:
Conditional Use Permit Approval for a Multi -Family Development
in the R-40 Zoning District Consisting of 140 Dwelling Units
Yearsley: So, I guess we are to the next one that we have all been waiting for. Before
open this public hearing I would ask that we be respectful of everybody. We will be
discussing this project. I understand that there is a lot of anger, maybe some frustration,
but we will get through it and have everyone be able to speak and to state their opinion. If
we could be respectful and to allow the person to -- at the podium to speak and to not
comment from the audience we would appreciate that and we would -- we will proceed
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that way. Thank you. So, the next item on the agenda is the public hearing of AZ 15-005,
PP 15-006 and CUP 15-009. This is the Stonesthrow Subdivision and let's begin with the
staff report.
Parsons: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission. The next item on the
agenda, again, is the Stonesthrow Subdivision. It consists of 9.22 acres of land and
currently zoned RUT in Ada County. The property is surrounded by the Walmart to the
north, zoned C-C. We have a cemetery to the east and a subdivision that's be approved
in the city of Boise to the east as well. To the south we have single family residential
development zoned R-8 and to the west we have single family residential development
zoned R-4 in the city. You can see the Comprehensive Plan for this property is
designated high density residential on our map, which we anticipate densities of -- in
excess of 15 dwelling units to the acre on this property. The project before you this
evening consists of 140 dwelling units at roughly 17 point -- 17 and a half dwelling units to
the acre. So, it does meet that threshold or is consistent with the HDI designation on the
Comprehensive Plan. The applicant is proposing to preliminary plat this property as well,
in conjunction with the annexation request. They are requesting the R-4 zoning district
consistent with that HDR designation. The preliminary plat consists of 35 buildable lots
and six common lots on approximately 9.22 acres. You can see here in the upper right-
hand corner the applicant is proposing to phase this development in three phases, with
one being -- starting at the north and, then, transitioning to the east and ultimately ending
up in the southwest corner of the development. Primary access to the site will come from
Fairview Avenue, which that street would be North Mt. Hood Road here and, then,
subdivision to the west has provided a stub street, which is North Florence Avenue and
will be extended as a public street through the proposed development. In order to
minimize traffic concerns with the adjacent subdivision to the west staff has recommended
that traffic calming be designed as part of the roadway design with chokers here to slow
down traffic cutting through and connecting to that adjacent subdivision. ACHD has
analyzed the proposed project, a TIS study. As I mentioned to you earlier in my
presentation, the application has a larger development to the east in Boise. What they did
is combine that traffic study in conjunction with this project and ACHD found that the
existing street network in the area is acceptable to handle the proposed development. So,
what you see here staff -- ACHD staff does support. The applicant is here. Also
submitted a concurrent conditional use permit again to develop 140 multi -family units.
Primarily all four-plexes on the site. The applicant will have to provide a minimum of ten
percent open space and four amenities for this development based on the number of units
proposed for the site. The plan that's before you this evening does not comply with that
open space requirement and Sonya has conditioned the staff report to require .045 acres
of open space, plus one more -- one additional amenity as well. Amenities for the
development will consist of a large clubhouse, which is located -- or a clubhouse central to
the development. A pool. An internal walking path that you see here and, then, also
some plaza areas or sitting areas, the applicant has also proposed those between the
units here as well. Because this site does consist of units over a hundred multi -family
units, it is within your purview to require additional amenities beyond what code requires
to make sure that it is commensurate to the size of the proposed development, so if you
think four isn't enough or six is the right amount, you have that right to request more as
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part of your purview this evening as well. Here is the site plan -- landscape plan again
kind of color rendering. The applicant is proposing two different product types, although
they are all four-plexes. One would be a pinwheel design and, then, a more contemporary
design here along this. This would be more of your pinwheel design along the perimeter
and, then, along the street frontage of the north boundary, providing a different design and
will get into that a little bit more in the next slide. Again, here is some graphic
representations of the proposed clubhouse as well. So, again, here is the pinwheel
design. Mix of materials with board and batten, vertical lap siding. Staff finds that these
are consistent with the multi -family design standards as well. Again, in the upper left-hand
side would be the other modern, traditional design. The applicants try to design these
more as large homes versus multi -family development, so trying to blend in with the
surrounding residential development and here is the rendering showing the elevations for
the clubhouse and you see here they have built it in other locations as well. And, again,
that would be central to the development. Staff has received written testimony from the
applicant on this application. They are in agreement with the conditions -- in the DA
provisions in the staff report. I'd mention to you that we did receive a petition from the
adjacent homeowners surrounding this development in opposition of this development.
Primary concern was, basically, not allowing the extension of the Florence Drive through
the development. They do not want that road to punch through and tie into North Mt.
Hood Road through that development and that should be in your packet as well. Staff
finds that the proposed development does comply with the Comprehensive Plan and the
requirements of the UDC, with the exception of the open space and the additional amenity
that I presented to you. The applicant has been advised to present his changes to the
plan to provide that additional open space and that additional amenity this evening. So, in
his presentation to you hopefully they will give you that comfort level on the additional
open space in that additional amenity as well. Other than that I would stand for any -- I
will conclude my presentation and I will stand for any questions you might have.
Yearsley: Thank you. Are there any questions?
Oliver: Yes.
Yearsley: Commissioner Oliver.
Oliver: Bill, if I could ask, if I recall reading, you had mentioned somewhere in what I was
reading in the packet was that looking at the map you had said that there would be a
possibility of punching through the wall, get a walking path to Walmart. Where would that
be if it were to happen?
Parsons: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, when we met as a staff we
thought, you know, up against the Walmart site there is a block wall. We were thinking
somewhere along this north boundary here. If applicant somewhere in -- if you can see
my cursor here, this seems to line up right where the Walmart -- the sidewalk was in front
of the Walmart. So, if it was possible and the applicant could work with Walmart and get
that punched through and break through that wall and get that pedestrian activity, we
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thought that made some sense to tie into that. I think the condition as written -- if you can
do it, do it and if you can't thanks for trying.
Oliver: Okay. Thank you.
Yearsley: Any other questions? Bill, I know this is kind of out of our purview, but the
applicant is actually proposing single family to the east and that's in the city of Boise; is
that correct?
Parsons: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, Commissioner Yearsley, I -- that
was my understanding. I haven't seen the plans, but certainly he can speak to what they
propose there. In my discussions with them I believe his -- his development to the east
was in the density range of between seven and eight dwelling units to the acre --
Yearsley: Okay.
Parsons: -- and it was going to be single family.
Yearsley: Okay. I was kind of curious if that actually would punch out to Cloverdale or not
or how that connectivity would go that way.
Parsons: I do have an exhibit provided by the applicant that shows how their traffic
pattern was analyzed. I can certainly bring that up for you if you'd like.
Yearsley: I would like that.
Parsons: Okay.
Yearsley: If you can.
Parsons: See if I can find it here real quick. Well, I didn't save it on my server here, so I
will try to dig it up while the applicant presents his project as well and I will go get a copy
of it for you to look at --
Yearsley: Okay.
Parsons: -- and get it in here for you.
Yearsley: Thank you. Would the applicant like to come forward. Please state your name
and address for the record.
Arnold: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, for the record Steve Arnold. A Team
Land Consultants. 1785 Whisper Cove, Boise. 83709. 1 did miss a little bit of Bill's
presentation. I apologize for running a little bit late. I will go over kind of the buildings.
There are actually three different variations in building types that we have got. We have
got contemporary, we have got the pinwheel design and, then, kind of a side entry and
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June 4, 2015
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front entry type design that we are proposing. The materials vary -- there is several
variations and textures and styles. You have seen, oh, at least three to four of these
projects come through you. Architecturally they are very nice buildings. They range
between 960 to a thousand plus square feet. They are, essentially, two story buildings.
They are Roughly 28 feet high, so they will match in well with surround residents. The
elevation of the roofs of ours will be very close and similar to elevations of the roofs to the
single families. They have more of a townhouse feel, because there is no one living
above you and, actually, the City of Meridian -- your code, if I can convince my client, we
can actually plat each unit and sell them. What you have in front of you tonight -- we are
planning each of the buildings right now so that those can be sold off to small investors,
mom and pop that want to down size and live in one unit and rent three off. The ability by
platting them allows them to do that. The HOA, although they can be owned by different
ownerships, the HOA will maintain all of the common open space and the buildings
themselves. Some of the design considerations that we had -- we did -- I had a
neighborhood meeting that was back in March. One of the concerns was traffic. So, I did
go to ACHD and I asked the question -- I knew the answer, but we asked to not extend
Florence Drive and just do driveway connections. The answer was no and I -- we got that.
so, the thought behind the bulb outs were to try to slow traffic down that could be going
east -- excuse me -- west to the signal and, then, we put several of those there -- and I will
get into the traffic and show you shortly, but, ironically, the least amount of my traffic from
that study was going west to that signal. Most of it's north and east. And Bill can show
you in a little bit the connection out to Cloverdale. It is correct we do have that property.
It's single family and it's got a cottage unit also on it. That has been approved by the city
and we are currently under design and submitting final plat potentially tomorrow.
Construction on that is anticipated here in the next several weeks to begin. Plans are
about 90 percent. We will have -- the first phase will connect Mt. Hood all the way over to
Cloverdale Road. So, immediately with that first phase we have access out there. The
other thing that we did along Florence is we did detached sidewalks, so that we can
create a boulevard visual -- visually doing landscaping that will help calm traffic, so you
don't get a strict boulevard effect and, then, with the bulb outs we also located pedestrian
pathways and we will do striped pathways connecting the units north to the south. One
thing that I'm not sure that was discussed was our setbacks. The standard setback is
between -- is 15 feet in this zoning. We are proposing on the west boundary
approximately 20 to 30 feet and, then, on the south boundary it's 20 to 30 feet that we are
doing, but there is an additional ten foot lot that separates our subdivision from the
subdivision to the south, essentially, giving us between 30 and 40 feet of separation. So,
in that separation I can do quite a pit of landscaping and screening that will help mitigate
some of the concerns. One of the things that should be noted on this plan is everything
that's on the west boundary and the south side we have got a design type that only
accesses from the front, so, essentially, I have got a townhouse backing that backs up to
the single family. It's very similar to what we did on Timber Grove when I backed up to the
single there. We tried to give the effect that we have got a single family backyard backing
up to another single family backyard, although these are more like that a townhouse
backing into them. So, there are two units that are attached that are facing in the back
with a back door in that back. So, I tried pairing up as best possible something that would
be cohesive to the other -- the single family. The other thing I don't know if we hit on, too,
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June 4, 2015
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is we angled the buildings along the south. That gives us kind of a V shape in certain
areas that allows me to beef up the landscaping. Again, that's something we did on
Timber Grove that -- that's a project behind Kohl's at Eagle and Ustick. The clubhouse we
centrally located it and something to be discussed on that -- it's almost 3,000 square feet.
think it's 2,850. It's got meeting rooms, a management office, a weight facility. It's a --
and, then, the pool that we are doing on it, too, is not one of these little ones, it would be
guess comparable to the Redtail project where it's a fairly large clubhouse and amenity.
These units -- they demand a fairly high rent, so we felt we needed to provide those type
of amenities for the subdivision. I will briefly hit on traffic, too, and we did -- on
Stonesthrow -- I'm sorry. White Cloud, which is to the east of this site, we didn't do a traffic
study and it was 160 units. After our neighborhood meeting I met with ACHD and,
basically, gave them some of the concerns. We were under the traffic threshold, but at
that time they thought that we ought to do a traffic study to address potential concerns
with traffic. So, we did do a traffic study and, ironically, I thought that more traffic would
be going out west to the signal, but most of it -- we have 20 percent of our traffic going to
the west, which I calculated to be about 186 trips per day. It's roughly 18 trips during the
p.m. and peak hour traffic hour. Twenty-five percent were going three -- or -- yeah.
Twenty-five percent were going north at 233 and more going south than I expected, which
was 325. One hundred eighty-six were going out to the east to Cloverdale. Total traffic
from this site was approximately 931 trips per day. All of the intersections that are
impacted by our traffic operated well above acceptable levels of service by ACHD. One
thing that I don't know as it was touched on too much, but the comp plan out here calls for
approximately 40 units per acre. We are at about 15.2 units per acre. I mean we are well
blow that threshold. But, again, our client doesn't like to go multiple levels. They are --
they get the best rent, they get the best sales out of these units on the two story, which no
one above -- open space. Because we are not very dense -- we are at about 4.3 acres of
open space. That's all the area around the clubhouse, the areas around the units and it
excludes Florence Drive and our private drive aisles and parking. So, we are well above
what is required by code for open space. One of the things that was brought up -- that
Sonya brought up Bill mentioned tonight -- I was able to show the covered parking here.
We -- we called it out as just 50 percent would be covered. We located it here on the site
plan where we thought it would be most acceptable, but we can move those around to fit.
To the north if we want to cut through put a pathway, we are certainly willing to work with
Walmart. The other thing that ACHD wanted us to do is work with Walmart off of Venture
to cut a driveway and we are certainly going to work with them on that. That would save
some trips onto Fairview and allow our traffic and neighboring traffic to enter Walmart
without going out to Fairview to get into the site, which makes sense way back when and
it makes sense now. So, that's something we will definitely work with Walmart on. Yeah.
This is a project you have -- or a product type you have seen on numerous occasions in
front of you. Tonight we are presenting the same one with an additional building. The
traditional -- we have not built that, but it's a little bit larger. We think it will be a nice
product type as well and I will stand for any questions the Commission has.
Yearsley: Are there any questions? I have -- Bill, will you go back to the one that he was
-- you were just showing? Can you show me which ones are going to be the additional?
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June 4, 2015
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Arnold: They are the boxier looking ones along the north.
Yearsley: Okay.
Arnold: The pinwheel type is -- if you're looking at the center, the -- those. And, then, the
-- along the boundary there, if you notice, those are all fronting and taking access from the
parking area. No -- there are no sidewalks in the back.
Yearsley: Okay. And I guess the -- the apartments on the other side of Florence are --
you looked at how to try to protect the children from crossing that roadway to get to the
clubhouse and stuff like that?
Arnold: Yeah. We have got -- every bulb out has an area where we have got a crossing
area where we will mark it well and do crossings in that general area. I think it's better
depicted on my preliminary -- or my site plan in the PUD.
Yearsley: Okay. That's all I have. Thank you. I guess do you guys have anymore
questions? All right. Thank you. All right. I have a few signed up. Is it Delores Sax? Do
you want to come forward? If you have someone speaking for a group -- is he speaking
for you or not? Okay. Well, then -- all right. Then I have a Ramona Alrich. You don't
want to speak? All right. Is it Alvera McClain? If you would, please, state your name and
address for the record.
McClain: I will. My name is Alvera McClain. I live at 3623 East Florence Drive. Thank
you for being here and thank you for allowing me to speak. I did hear some
considerations of traffic for the continuation of Florence Drive. As a mother of a special
needs child and knowing that there are other -- at least two other special needs people in
our area, I know that I can't stop progress, but I would like the developer to take into
consideration that the special needs community needs special needs. These individuals
that I'm talking about are all profoundly deaf and so, of course, the increased traffic and
populations and my daughter happens to be developmentally delayed and so the increase
of people -- it's always a risk and so I guess that I would just like to say that regardless of
what happens -- and I hope that the developers take into consideration our individuals
with special needs. Thank you.
Yearsley: Thank you. Is it Georgina Lett. Sorry. Georgia.
Lett: Georgia Lett at 3688 East Presidential Drive, Meridian. And my real concern about
this project is the traffic. Definitely. When we drove around the area to try to search it out,
of course, I did not know about the road that would be punched through to Cloverdale, so
that helps the -- the prospects there. But coming out on Venture to Fairview I don't know
that there is going to be a traffic light there. If there is no traffic light there, the likelihood
that anybody that wants to head to the east, they are definitely going to come through our
subdivision and hit the Records stoplight in order to get out on Fairview to go left, which
heads you to the Eagle Road and the interstate if you want to go that direction. That's the
most quick way to get there. The other thing is there is no -- there is a center turn lane,
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June 4, 2015
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but when we went to get out on Venture onto Fairview and we wanted to go left, if you
want to take that center lane a lot of times you're going to be taking your life in your hands
to take that center lane. So, that's a real problem. I would like to see some consideration
for a traffic light there or something that would be helpful, so that those people can feel --
that's their main entrance to that subdivision and if it's a main entrance let's -- why don't
we use it. It goes by a cemetery. It's not going to pick up a lot of traffic there. So, you
know, bring them out there, but do something with a traffic light at that corner. The other
thing is if you're wanting to go to Eagle and the interstate an even more quick way, of
course, come through on -- I believe it's Principle if I'm saying it right and, then, on through
over onto Presidential and go out on Judicial to Pine, because if you get on Pine you can
go straight across and make a left-hand turn on Eagle and avoid that Eagle and Fairview
intersection, which is a delightful place to go to. So -- anyway, I would like to just look at
the considerations. We live in the neighborhood. When I commute I know what routes I
take to try to avoid things that are going to be compromising to your health sometimes.
You know, it's going to really funnel things through our neighborhood. Even on Venture, if
you want to go out onto Eagle and you can go out there where all the restaurants, all the
shopping is and everything, but how do you get from the subdivision over there, you go,
once again, through on Florence. Everything is going to funnel over threw Florence and,
then, around sometimes on around to go over to the -- the shopping center and the
restaurants. So, we are looking at maybe 280 cars -- 140 units, two cars per unit possibly,
and it's going to funnel through our neighborhood one of several ways.
Yearsley: Thank you. Gary Lett. Do you want to speak, Gary? Okay. Elizabeth -- I can't
read that one. Sorry. Linda. I can't -- know the last name, so -- please state your name
and address for the record.
Monroe: My name is -- my name is Linda Monroe and I live at 1172 North Legislative
Way and my concern is they are building these four-plexes and I'm the -- I'm the fourth
house in and I will be very close to the neighbors, which I talked to this man before and
they are going to have two stories where he said don't worry, we won't have a balcony,
but they have windows and they can look right into your yard and right into your house.
You know, it's an invasion of privacy and, then, back to the traffic. All of the traffic is going
to come down Records, down Florence Avenue and down Legislative and over to Pine
and you go and wait at Pine Street sometimes for five minutes get out it's so crowded
anymore and if you go the other way over to Fairview, since they put in The Village, you
wait five, maybe ten minutes if you have two lights. So, it's the traffic and it's also the --
the building do they -- are they going to allow cats and dogs and things like that? And
understand each property has a ten by ten by ten yard. Now, how big is that? And the
back of the units will have a garage, but the front will be right facing our fence and I don't
think they should build it. Period. Thank you.
Yearsley: Thank you. I have a Ralph Bowden. Okay. Renee Hand.
Strubal: First off I want to --
Yearsley: Name and address for the record, please.
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June 4, 2015
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Strubal: Well, I want to say I'm actually here for my daughter.
Yearsley: Okay.
Strubal: I don't know if you want my name or her name with her address.
Yearsley: Your name and, then, you can say you're speaking for your daughter.
Strubal: Ruby Strubal. I'm speaking for Renee Hand, 4297 East English Drive and as she
would say she's strictly against it. Traffic is number one and complexes, two story, the
traffic and what about the schools? Are you taking consideration -- there is going to be an
impact of the schools. We already have overcrowding of schools in Meridian right now
really and trying to get in and out, like the lady before, out at Pine, they fixed it some, but
there still is a big problem and if you go out to try to turn left on Fairview you're taking your
life in your own hands because of the way the traffic is and to me, if it was houses for
seniors, which would not impact the schools, there is the Walmart, there is other
businesses there, restaurants, and the senior center is across the way, it would be very
helpful if it was something like that for them, but if -- what you have got planned right now
we are against it. Thank you.
Yearsley: Thank you. I have a Deborah McKnight.
McKnight: Deborah McKnight. 3578 East Congressional Drive, Meridian. First off, I'd like
to thank you, ma'am, ladies and gentlemen, for the time that you put in for us. I realize
this is a big job. I'm a 54 year resident of Boise and a ten year resident of Meridian and I
love it. I moved here to be close to my son, so that I could enjoy my senior years.
Unfortunately, I volunteered to be on my HOA and so here I am to represent their wishes.
I should say many wishes. My concern is the Florence access and I understand that you
-- you talked about some chokers. I don't understand what a choker is for traffic control,
so if I could get a visual or some kind of a description so that I could take that back to my
board and explain to them what we are talking about and my concern also is I didn't
realize that there was going to be another access to Cloverdale, which will help, but
knowing Records the way I do, I can tell you the people are going to go to the traffic light,
so that they can either turn left or east and that's the only comment I have is I would like a
response from the developers so that I could understand what a choker is and if there is
going to be bumps or what, I would like that. Thank you.
Yearsley: I have got it written down, so we will make sure he gets that answered for you.
McKnight: Thank you.
Yearsley: You're welcome. A Ray Vallent? Or Vallentini.
Valenti: Valenti.
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June 4, 2015
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Yearsley: Valenti.
Valenti: I'm Ray Valenti. 942 North Stolle Place, McHale Meadows Subdivision, which
nobody has talked about. Thank you for allowing us to speak and allow us to talk about
the situation at hand. Can you bring up the map that you first brought up that has the --
the overall picture with the subdivision and the school at the base of the picture? While
he's doing that, I am not in favor of the subdivision. I have done some research on my
own and my numbers are different for the developer's numbers. I'm going to beat this
traffic horse to death tonight a little bit, so bear with me. Stonesthrow Subdivision is to
occupy a 10.26 acre parcel sandwiched between the McHale Meadows Subdivision on
the south and basically Walmart on the north. The subdivision plans a 140 unit complex
already approved by Boise city is a 160 unit complex known as the White Cloud
Subdivision. This subdivision is directly to the east of the proposed Stonesthrow
Subdivision. The developer is the same on both. Their traffic plan is to extend Florence
Street from the west to Mt. Hood Drive and construct White Hood Drive form Mt. Hood
Drive to Cloverdale. Cloverdale and Mt. Hood Drive will not be lighted at this time,
although there is -- Ada County Highway District had talked about it in the proposals that
they submitted with the Boise city, not with the Meridian city plan. The developer's traffic
plan is to have traffic enter and exit these subdivisions, either north on Fort Hood and
Venture to Fairview, west on Florence to Records and north on Fairview or east on White
Cloud to Cloverdale Drive. What they have failed to mention -- and if you follow -- and if
you look, if you follow Fort Hood down it rolls right into McHale Meadows Subdivision.
They have ignored that subdivision and have not in any of the plans acknowledged
whether it even exists. Now, for some of the facts of the current traffic situation. I took
this off of the Ada County Highway District plan that they had submitted with the White
Cloud Subdivision. Ada County Highway District conducted three average daily traffic
counts this last year. On May 13, 2014, they conducted a traffic plan on Florence west of
Records, which is outside their egress area. Showed 505 vehicles per day. January 19th,
2015, they conducted two studies, on Fairview west of Cloverdale at 40,014 vehicles, on
Cloverdale South of Fairview, 15,540 vehicles. Ada County Highway District estimates
that in the case of White Cloud Subdivision traffic will increase by an additional 1,242
vehicle trips per day or by doing the math 7.736 trips per unit per day. Utilizing that
formula the Stonesthrow Subdivision will generate and additional 1,086 vehicle trips per
day. This adds up to 2,328 total trips per day of additional vehicular traffic brought by
these developments.
Yearsley: Your three minutes are up, so if you could wrap it up quickly, I would appreciate
it. I mean you can finish, but, you know, just hit some of the highlights if you will.
Valenti: Okay. The developer assumes that everybody is going to go north. You cannot
access Fairview at Venture, because of the traffic light. They will never light that
subdivision. They just rebuilt that subdivision, there are no light standards in place. They
expect people to go to Records. They expect people to go to Cloverdale. However,
people will go south to get to Pine, to get to Eagle Road. There is a school located --
located on the south side of Pine. We already have a traffic congestion issue at Driftwood
and Parkdale of parents picking up students -- there is a bus stop there. We expect that
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June 4, 2015
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students will come through out the subdivision, come through our walkways, go through
our park to get to the school. I want to leave on one last thing. Ada County builds a local
street, a residential street to carry less than 2,000 average daily trips. That's what they
said in this plan. Two thousand average daily trips. That equals 83 trips or 1.3 trips per
minute. They are going to add that to our subdivisions. We have children. There is no
plan for this. Thank you.
Yearsley: Thank you. Next on the list is Emory Helm.
Helm: Well, thank you. I don't know how I can best that, I will tell you, but --
Yearsley: Name and address for the record.
Helm: Oh. Emory Helm. 1211 North Legislative Way on Crossroads Sub. My wife and I
-- I'm speaking for her and I'm speaking for a Shirley Lovett, who is in Colorado right now
attending to her mother's demise and stuff and so she couldn't be here and I think you
people have a letter from her that we turned in and also a letter from me that I turned in
and I'd just like to read it just so that -- I don't know if you even got it or not. I hope so.
But it says: We live at 1211 North Legislative Way, Meridian, Idaho, in Crossroads Sub.
This is to voice our objection to the proposed development of Stonesthrow Subdivision
and opening up Florence Street into Crossroads Sub, which some pictures of the
proposed site and as you can see our subdivision is all single family homes. Now, it says
homes. It's not houses. We live in a house, but it is our home that we are talking about
here and, you know, if you could picture your homes with these two story whatever. He
calls them four -- they are apartments. That's all they are. And picture your own home
with them looking right straight down into your backyard. I really don't think you would like
that at all. But you know -- and, you know, it's bad opening up Florence Street to through
traffic. It's just a bad idea and I believe Steve Arnold said a hundred and some cars
before -- at the meeting before he said 200 cars, I believe. In my calculation that would be
more like -- now, this is just me figuring that there is at least three to five people in each
unit, probably with two cars, and there is at least three to five hundred cars coming
through our subdivision on a daily basis. You know, it's a hazard. If you open up
Florence and it's going to be a hazard and -- you know, it's not only a hazard for the
people that live right there, there is the children. We have a lot of children in our
subdivision and I will say it again, it's the children. You have to look at the children, guys.
You know. And in the subdivision south of the proposed site they have a street and it's
called Driftwood and it runs from Cloverdale all the way to our Crossroads Subdivision,
but instead of pushing it through at the end of that road they put a cul-de-sac there and
they put a walkway through to Crossroads Sub and we would -- if this thing goes through
-- and we pray it won't -- we would appreciate that consideration also and I do have a
couple of comments. I talked to my neighbors right now next door to me and I said, well,
are you coming to the meeting and he says, no, we are not going and I said, well, and he
says it's a done deal. When we turned this in to a lady in Planning and Zoning -- I believe
she's the head of this. I don't know -- what was her name? Anyway, she took this and
talked to her about the subdivision and Florence Street and she says, oh, that's going to
be opened up and this is -- this is going in and I said, so, what, it's a done deal and she
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June 4, 2015
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kind of hesitated and she says, well, go the meeting and, you know, I'm asking you, is this
a done deal? I mean if it is why are we even here? You're supposed to consider all
thoughts and what we think about, too, because we live there and, like I say, it's our
homes and the subdivision to the south, it's their homes, too. If anything, if it does go in,
I'd like to see him flip-flop this and put the single family houses on our end and put the
other ones down on the other end where there is not so many houses, it's pretty much
open, church, and stuff like that. But, you know, it's -- you open up Florence it's just a bad
deal, because everybody will be coming from the end of that sub, the other sub,
everybody will be coming right through our subdivision and coming through Florence
whether you got a choker in there or you got a roundabout, no matter what, they are going
to come through to go to Walmart, they are going to come through to go to the shopping
center, they are going to come through to go to The Village, come through to go to
Fairview. It's just -- it's not a good deal to put -- to open Florence up and I just -- I pray
that you guys have some consideration for the homeowners, single family homes, on the
south and the west, and, again, thank you for listening to me and appreciate it. Thank
you.
Yearsley: Thank you. If we can please keep -- we understand that you're passionate
about this. If we could, please, keep the clapping down to a minimum I would appreciate
it and maybe we can get through this tonight. Richard -- it's Salisbury.
Salisbury: My name is Richard Salisbury and I live at 947 North Parkdale Avenue in
McHale Meadows. I'm part of the housing association group from there. I'd like to just
point out one thing about the proposed duplexes or apartments and, then, we feel that this
will be bringing in absentee landowners, landlords, we don't expect that the housing area
will maintain and we look down the road and are concerned about the quality of the
buildings after years of rentals. All of the housing areas around this proposed housing are
single family residential areas. I can't believe that we would try to stack multi -- multi -unit
apartment complexes in -- within all of that. The big issue that McHale Meadows has --
and I don't -- this isn't shown too well on the map, but when you come into McHale
Meadows from that housing area you're going to come into a dead end. You come
straight into the housing area, you either have to go left or right, and you're going to have
to go through almost all of the housing to get out of McHale Meadows on the south side.
If you add another two to three hundred car trips a day -- we have got children in there,
our basketball courts will probably be used by the folks next door, which isn't a big issue,
but we'd like to see them try to consider that for their area as well. Likewise, we might go
swimming, but I doubt that as well. Anyway, the access into McHale Meadows would be a
disaster and as Ray already pointed out, there are school children all the time on
Driftwood and Pine. We have got lots of people already there. Adding more traffic
through there would be a disaster and I can see a problem with our children and I'd like to
thank you also as well for listening to me.
Yearsley: Thank you. Ray Yekkel? Okay. Patrick Jennings. Or Patricia Jennings.
Sorry about that.
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June 4, 2015
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Jennings: Patricia Jennings. I live 3474 East Florence Drive. We are right on the corner
as you come around Florence as these people are going to be going out of our
subdivision and already -- I sit out -- outside and I watch them race around the corner and
that's not even with the subdivision in yet. I have little kids next door to me. I have seen
them almost get hit by cars. I -- you know, I'm really surprised that you're going to let this
huge development go in right next door to us and, then, open it up, because I'm going to
be crazy. You know, I'm going to be watching these people race down the street,
because they are going to try to get in line on, you know, going out to Pine, which, you
know, already you got to wait through three lights to even get onto Fairview or onto Eagle.
just don't think that this is a great idea. Maybe single homes -- houses. I don't know.
But I don't like the idea of opening up Florence Drive through all these other subdivisions
and -- because it's going to come right past my house and in the winter they can't make
that corner as it goes, you know, when there is ice on the road and you know they don't
plow the roads, so they are going to slam all the houses that are on the corner and
probably mine when they come this way. So, I just don't think this is great. So, that's all
have.
Yearsley: Thank you. Randy Jennings?
R.Jennings: My name is Randy Jennings. I'm at 3474 East Florence Drive, right there on
the corner. We sit where Florence ends, you make the corner and you go up, hit
Presidential and go out of the subdivision. Okay? So, Stonesthrow Subdivision in itself, if
it was just by itself, we are going to have all this traffic that the developer already admitted
we are going to have. What I didn't realize is it's White Cloud Subdivision. Okay? It's --
how are those people going to get from White Cloud to The Ram? They are going to get
on Florence -- or they are going to come out of their subdivision, go up to Florence, come
down my street, take that corner, and they are going to drive to The Ram. They are going
to drive to Cafe Ole'. That's a whole other -- that's a Boise Subdivision with, what, 160
units? So, the traffic -- I mean it's mind boggling and there is no way that they will use the
entrance out on Fairview, because it's halfway blocked off and you can't get -- you can't
make a left-hand turn there. The only hope I would have that - is that they would take the
route to Cloverdale and have to drive all the way up to Pine and, then, drive all the way to
Eagle and, then, drive to The Ram. They are not going to do that. They are going to cut
through the subdivision to the south of us or they are going to come down Florence. Our
subdivision right now is already blocked off -- the subdivision next to us down there by
Parkdale, which is fantastic. It's just blocked off. Our subdivisions don't interfere with
each other. So, right -- oh, why not -- there is no road there now on Florence. It's blocked
off. Why build the road? Why spend all the money and build a road. Let the developer
do that. Block it off there, put a gate up, problem solved. Thank you so much for your
attention and really think about this. I mean I have grandbabies and there is some
neighbors and if it was your neighborhood -- you know, you can think it would be your
son-in-law or daughter-in-law that lives on Florence. Florence is going to be the worst,
there is no doubt about it. Anyway, thank you very much.
Yearsley: Thank you. Doug Peterson.
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June 4, 2015
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Peterson: My name is Doug Peterson. I live at 1194 North Legislative Way in the
Crossroads Subdivision, Meridian, Idaho. One of the things -- I will have to concur with
everything that was mentioned tonight. The traffic is a concern. Definitely a concern
having two story building built in our backyard and looking down on our backyard is
definitely a concern. One of the things that hasn't been mentioned. This area is zoned --
believe R-48. Our subdivision is R-8 and the south subdivision is R-4. The only reason
why this area was zoned R-48 is a previous developer wanted to develop apartment
complexes on this property and had the zoning changed to high density. That was a
mistake to allow that to be zoned high density in the first place. Should be zoned for
single family housing and that was just the only other thing that I heard that hasn't been
mentioned tonight that I'd like you folks to consider when you're considering this
subdivision, so -- and thank you for your time.
Yearsley: Thank you. Lori Colbert.
Colbert: Thank you for pronouncing that correctly. My name is Lori Colbert. I'm at 3843
East Presidential Drive in the Crossroads Subdivision. So, today I recently learned about
the approval for the White Cloud Subdivision, which increased my already concerns for
the traffic in our area. We already -- where I'm at on Presidential we already have a high
amount of traffic coming through. My guess has always been that people don't want to go
from Eagle down to Fairview, they cut through our subdivision to get to Walmart. It's a
very busy place and this isn't -- this isn't slow traffic that's going through our subdivision,
it's rather fast. I mean my biggest complaint with our subdivision is we do have a lot of
fast people that are driving through and I'm not sure if all of them live there. Just recently
requested a speed cart for Presidential and I also requested one for Pine. My house
backs up to Pine and I can tell you right now with the traffic that we have back there it's
bad enough as it is. My husband and I have actually contemplated moving, because I
can't handle the traffic that's back there as it is. The increase that this is going to bring is
just not going to make our situation any better with the subdivision that we are living in.
So, I really do -- and these brought up some excellent points. If they were wanting to go
to 1-84 they are going to go down Presidential and they are going to go out to Pine,
because they can hit that light. As the gentleman said, this isn't residential that you're
talking about, these are apartments and that's a -- that's a different type of person that's
going to be living there where these are our homes, we pay for them and we take care of
them, and we only hope that the people who are going to be in the next lots are going to
do the same. So, I really hope that you take everyone's feedback that they have given
tonight to heart, because this is very serious and Florence Drive -- that is not going to be a
good situation with the amount of traffic that's going to go through there, so I really hope to
see that something is -- else is designed for that. Thank you.
Yearsley: Thank you. Todd Colbert. All right. Let's see. I don't have anybody else
signed up. Would someone else like to come forward? Please come forward.
Stucker: Ladies and gentlemen, I'm Robert Stucker. I live at 3898 East Florence Drive.
Where I live I can see both Records and down Florence at the intersection going to the
south and I am probably guilty. When I want to go to Eagle Road I go through the
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subdivision out on Pine and just for the -- for general information I have followed cars
which came in off Walmart at least and gone the entire subdivision out to Pine. So, we
already have people taking that shortcut and I'm thinking that based on my use almost
one trip per day for each vehicle in that subdivision is going to be going to Walmart. If not
Walmart, Sportmans Warehouse. If not Sportsman Warehouse, Texas Roadhouse or one
of the other restaurants or ShopKo and I'm also guessing that they will go -- not only use
that Records to go to Pine, but go to Eagle Road. I'm going to probably alienate some of
my neighbors to say that I have had occasion when I was young to live in residential --
high residence -- high density housing and I suspect that we are going to see more young
people and probably a little bit different than the composure of our neighborhood. Not that
that's bad. Everybody has to be young once. I'm going to say that if we ignore what
everybody wants and open that road up, I want to suggest that you put in signs -- which
may be redundant, because everything in there is supposed to be 25 max and if people
are familiar with Sandalwood, the speed bumps on Sandalwood, very effective speed
bumps. I would like to see a minimum of two of those, one coming into our area and one
at the first T intersection where the road goes south and, then, I would like to see
crosswalks. So, if this happens I would like to see additional measures taken to insure the
safety of my granddaughter, my grandkids, the neighbors kids, the school kids and old
people like me. I think that's really all I have got to say, except for I really disagree with
that 20 percent increase. Because people are going to use it -- not just to go to Fairview
and stores there, but they are going to use it to go to Pine Street a lot and also to Eagle
and, then, back to those stores over at that place. Thank you.
Yearsley: Thank you. Anybody else? I saw a hand. Please come forward. Name and
address for the record, please.
Kim: My name is Scott Kim. I live at 3986 East Florence Drive. Thank you for letting me
speak here tonight. I'm very concerned about this subdivision going into my
neighborhood. I'm very concerned about how it's going to affect the property values of the
houses in my neighborhood. I looked -- had a chance to actually kind of look -- just kind
of peruse the whole Meridian zoning map looking for R-40 zoning. There is not that very
many of them. You can probably count them on two hands and there was very few that
were actually adjacent to an R-4 and none had from an R-4 to an R-40. Just didn't see it.
I saw cases where they were adjacent and it dead end to it and I think there is a reason
for that and I strongly consider -- suggest that we consider that when we are building
these -- if you consider building these subdivisions. Secondly, as I think with everybody
have already talked about the traffic issue and I think people have talked about it much
better than I have tonight, so I'm going to not talk much more about the traffic issue, but
there are -- I live on Florence Drive and I have children, my neighbors have children, there
are at least four families with children on my street and, you know, I told my -- my
daughter saw the sign up on the -- because we can see it, I mean we are just two houses
down from the field and she said, well, what's that sign about and I said, well, they are
going to -- they want to build some four-plexes over there and, you know, she's -- she's
fifth grade and she says, oh, that's not good. It doesn't -- I mean this is not rocket
science. It's -- it's pretty plain and simple. My third comment is that I feel that this -- at
least from my standpoint it seems like there was a neighborhood meeting that was back in
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February and it was kind of at a bad time, I mean 5:00 o'clock on a Tuesday, which is kind
of like right in the middle of rush hour traffic and, then, only five people attended and I can
see why, you know, because at that time it doesn't allow us time to get there, but -- at the
beginning before changes can be made. So, you know, I speak out against this and
want to thank everybody who came out tonight to speak out against it and I hope you
strongly consider that when making your decision. Thank you.
Yearsley: Thank you. Anybody else? All right.
Sass: My name is Delores Sass at 1158 North Legislative Way and I think there is quite a
few of us on that street that's here tonight. I walk every blessed day around my
subdivision and the one in back of us. There is quite a few traffic problems there already,
as it was mentioned. I go through -- is it Driftwood where they have the bars up there
where you can't get through or the fence. I'm requesting they do the same thing at
Florence as it was all stated because of traffic. Why can you not put a walking path there
to go to Walmart like we walk over there, instead of having another street go through?
When we first moved in there they says, oh, they were not going to put Pine through to
our subdivision. Well, look what happened. And we get all that traffic coming through
there and going there and like it was mentioned, they don't go 25 miles an hour. They are
really speeding through there. As for the homes, I would request that they put the homes
in back of the Crossroads Subdivision and stick their other homes over there at the other
side if that has to happen. We have a lot of -- I'm a widow and a lot of -- what am I trying
to say? I got a senior moment here. A lot of things -- of widows -- not widows, but seniors
in our area, as well as the children and that would be perfect for them to put the houses
there, so they can have all the amenities right there. I go to the Meridian Senior Center
every day and walk there from our place. So, I'm hoping that everything that was said
tonight will go through for us and not just pass in the wind. Thank you.
Yearsley: Thank you. Please.
Ward: Hi. My name is Megan Ward. I live at 3920 East Florence Drive, Meridian, Idaho.
Just a few houses down from where we want to connect Florence. I would first like to say
am a frequent walker, bike rider through our neighborhood. I have a dog and a lot of
times I take him with me and it was already pretty dangerous if you want to go down
Records. Not just trying to walk your dog -- I mean I have had plenty of people almost hit
us multiple times. But just going down that street, if you want to drive to take a right or
left, there is the connection between Sportsman's and Walmart, well, there is already
plenty of cars that are trying to turn and they don't always see you coming down and you
about get hit. You have to honk. You have to swerve. It's like probably in the last few
years I have lived there maybe close to a hundred times I have been hit there. Almost
been hit. Also from what I understand there is 280 houses in our subdivision and they
want to put 140 in there. That's like half of the traffic and like Bob said, there is a lot of
through traffic. There are people who cut through from Pine to Fairview, from Eagle to
Fairview and, then, they are going to cut from Cloverdale to Fairview. So, it's not just the
people who live there, it's going to be everyone who knows that that road exists to cut
through. And I'd also like to add one day we had some people -- you know, it's like we
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already are a busy area. We had kids run through our yard, hop over the fence, that tried
to steal something from Walmart. So, we already have a lot of activity in our area. We
don't need -- I feel like we don't need to at least be connected to this neighborhood and
also I'd like to point out that there are people who -- not just speed, I'm pretty sure they
are racing and also this last winter on Florence Drive there is a really steep turn and there
was a mailbox knocked down, because someone just flew off our road. It gets icy. You
got to go really slow and people don't. And, yeah, I think that's about bit, but I hope that
this does something, that you guys are really considering it, but also I'd like to thank you
for your time.
Yearsley: Thank you. Anybody else? Yes. Please. Come.
Sansoucie: Hi. My name is Ken Sansoucie. I live at 3526 East Florence Drive. I also
happen to be the precinct committeeman for Precinct 211, so these are my neighbors that
are directly impacted. In my conversations with my neighbors I have not had one person
who is not concerned about the traffic implications of this -- this throughway. Most that
have talked to don't have a particular issue with the buildings themselves and building
residents, what they are mostly concerned about is safety in our neighborhood. So,
would just ask for consideration of -- of that from the people that I have talked to in the
precinct who are concerned for their children, their pets, themselves, it's I think a 20
percent increase at the very low estimate. I know that we always try to present things in
the best possible light and we can kind of skew numbers to make things look very
favorable, but the reality is I think the numbers are extremely low, just like they were when
the -- when the shopping center was put in, there were a lot of figures that, in reality, I
think tuned out to be substantially higher than what they projected, so I would just ask in
consideration for the people that I represent in precinct 2011 to consider at least, as was
mentioned earlier, put a gate and a pedestrian thoroughfare, but as far as car traffic, most
people are -- that I have talked to are very, very concerned, including myself, about the
increase in traffic, the speed, safety for ourselves, our children, and our pets. Thank you.
Yearsley: Thank you. Anybody else? I'm just waiting for the last one. All right. If no one
else would like to come forward, would the applicant like to come back?
Arnold: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, again, for the record, Steve Arnold,
A -Team Land Consultants. I will address some of the things that we can fix and some of
the things that I heard brought up that I think maybe we can help address. One of the --
the special needs children -- I think as a developer, now that we have been aware of that,
that would be something that we would agree. We could sign, at least on our side and try
to encourage ACHD to sign the other side. There are signage that you can put that
addresses that and that could be added as a condition. We would certainly support that.
One of the other issues was brought up about potential speed bumps. Instead of speed
bumps I would recommend to the Commission perhaps doing -- where we are doing
crosswalks, perhaps doing a raised crosswalk extended for a period of six to eight feet. It
does act as a speed bump. It's not loud and obnoxious. When I worked at ACHD those
were the least preferred methods of -- of calming. The chokers that I have got, the three
of them along Florence Drive, is they take a street section and, then, they neck it down to
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roughly 24 feet back of curb to back of curb. Those are the best methods of controlling
traffic. When I did have our neighborhood meeting and those concerns were brought up,
this was added to our site plan after the fact in an attempt to try to address those. One of
the issues that keeps coming up is that we are allowed two stories -- that we are doing
two stories. In the R-40 zoning and high density like this, we are significantly under what
we could be doing as -- you know, three story walk up, multi -family. That's not just
because we are good guys, but that's because the client likes this smaller unit, it fits well
with single family, but it also lends well for him for rent. It's a higher yielding, it's a nicer
product type, so we are able to demand a higher rent. This being this close to The
Village, hence the name Stonesthrow and that's how we are going to market it -- this use
and the density that we are coming in with, in between commercial is a naturally
transitioning use between the commercial and the residential, R-8 to the south. The R-4
is a little bit different to the east -- west, but it is -- in all planning purposes and what has
been previously planned as a -- the high density here, we believe fits very well with the
adjacent land uses. Let me address something -- the Florence extension, I requested
ACHD to look at not extending it. I knew the answer before I asked them and in all reality
and planning purposes, if I were back at ACHD it makes perfect sense to make this
extension. I mean it's not just our traffic benefiting from the connectivity, connectivity
benefits everyone in the square mile. What hasn't been discussed tonight is this will allow
neighborhoods, both to the west of us and south additional access out, to either
Cloverdale or Fairview Avenue via through our subdivision and the roadway extension.
Whatever use goes in here, ACHD is going to require that road to be extended.
understand the concerns with neighborhood and traffic having been at ACHD for many
years, I have listened to many of the arguments. The perception of our traffic -- and it has
been studied by a traffic engineer, the 931 trips generated a day distributed as shown.
We didn't ignore McHale Meadows to the south. It is shown that 35 percent of our traffic --
which is surprising to me -- went south. I would have expected more to go to the west to
the traffic signal, but our traffic engineer stated that 35 percent of that was going south,
which was approximately 325 trips a day and to give you an idea of that traffic -- and we
do -- I don't know if you got my exhibit earlier, but that's 30 -- roughly 32 trips during the
p.m. peak hours going north and south. That's one trip every 30 seconds. The perception
is that we are generating all this traffic, but, in reality, we are generating very little. The
traffic study did take into effect all of White Cloud. We purposely had the engineer look at
the White Cloud traffic and all of the roads that are affected in this square mile are well
below acceptable levels of traffic by ACHD. So, I don't want to beat that too much and I
will stand for questions if you have any.
Yearsley: Can I ask a really quick question?
Arnold: Sure.
Yearsley: You mentioned that there was 930 some cars --
Arnold: Trips.
Yearsley: -- trips. Is that just for Stonesthrow or is that for both subdivisions?
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Arnold: That's just for Stonesthrow.
Yearsley: How much is White Cloud adding?
Arnold: Twelve hundred.
Yearsley: Twelve hundred. So, there is about 2,100 extra cars? Okay.
Arnold: Yeah. We do have an exhibit right here that shows the White Cloud traffic in
addition to Stonesthrow and the additional traffic shown on the roads and it shows in the
p.m. peak hour the max is 57 in the a.m., which, again, is thoroughly one additional trip
per day generated by this site, but -- during the p.m. hours -- I'm sorry. Generated per
minute during the peak hours. It doesn't take into account the traffic that's coming through
us that is mitigated or lessened by our connectivity both east and north by the extension of
Records. So, there is a mile decrease, but overall these roads -- there is a ton of capacity
and, unfortunately -- or fortunately, I guess, for the neighborhood, they have -- they have
had the ability to live in these areas where there wasn't any connectivity. That's why we
put most of our emphasis on doing the bulb outs at those intersections to try to mitigate --
slow that traffic down as it enters into the neighboring subdivision to dismiss some of the
effects by that traffic. So, there was quite a bit of thought put into this design moving
forward. Again, I don't -- there will not be a use that goes in here that ACHD won't require
that and, in all reality, it makes sense, even for emergency services getting to and
through. So, again, I want to reiterate the buildings that we are doing at the south
boundary, we are trying to provide more of a townhouse feel. So, there was quite a bit of
effect -- thought that went into the effect of the homes adjacent to our boundaries. So, we
are beefing up the landscaping visually to try to hide I guess some of the negative
impacts. In all reality this is one HOA. All of these buildings will be maintained at a high
quality. These developers, they put a significant investment into them. They are not
going to let them go bad and they are also -- there is a property management that
manages all of this, so you don't have the issues and negative aspects of renters. So,
with that I hope I addressed most of those and I will stand for any questions.
Yearsley: I, actually, have -- just so I can kind of go through my -- my list of comments,
traffic to the north, that one next to Walmart -- is it Ventura? That won't be signalized;
correct?
Arnold: Correct. It was not proposed to be signalized at this point and I don't believe
ACHD has any plans to signal it.
Yearsley: Okay.
Arnold: But in the future if you had a road to the north and there was enough traffic
generated that it would warrant it, perhaps one could go in.
Yearsley: Okay.
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Arnold: But there is no plans right now.
Yearsley: And, then, what about the one off of the White Cloud Subdivision to Cloverdale,
is there plans in the future for a signal there?
Arnold: There is no -- Mr. Chairman, there is no plans for a signal there either. The traffic
study -- it perceived that there is a lot of traffic. It's not significant enough for a signal.
Yearsley: Okay. I'm just trying to answer questions from the audience, so -- a couple of
them raised comments about absentee landowner and I know you talked about that there
will be an HOA, so the HOA is responsible to making sure the exterior of the buildings are
painted and, you know, not -- you know, when they are needing painting and stuff like that
and the interior looks good and the landscaping; is that correct?
Arnold: Mr. Chairman, that is correct. They maintain both the exterior and the
landscaping, the clubhouse and all facilities associated with it. That's the HOA that hires a
maintenance company that comes in and does that. The property management company
comes in and manages that, one, rent is collected and, two, that we don't have weird
hours of operation or people doing crazy stuff and they are noticed and they are kicked
out of there, because they can't -- one of the things that would come up and brought up
was about pets. You know, as much as our clients -- they don't want pets, Fair Housing
won't allow us to discrimination. In all honesty, someone comes in with a comfort dog,
you know, we can't discriminate.
Yearsley: Okay.
Arnold: But we will make it a significant deposit to discourage it.
Yearsley: The other one was -- that I -- that was major was rotating the subdivisions.
Why not rotate them and put the apartments closer to Cloverdale? Just wanting to
understand that process.
Arnold: Mr. Chairman, a lot of thought went into the comp plan amendment. We tried to
follow this city's comp plan and we had to follow Boise city's comp plan. When we looked
at this site, the close proximity, it was felt to have better value in putting that -- the multi-
family there. But the city has approved and we are designing White Cloud. They have
wanted that -- the seven, eight units per acre and that's what we proposed and gave them.
Yearsley: Okay. So, any other questions?
Oliver: I have a couple. Going back to Venture again, you had mentioned that you were
going to be talking to Walmart about punching through an exit to where you could get from
Venture onto Walmart's property, is that --
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Arnold: If you go up to the north, Bill, I think is where we are -- most likely will be up there.
Correct.
Oliver: Okay. So, the other question I have is on Florence -- from Florence going through
Stonesthrow, is that going to connect into the White Cloud Subdivision as well?
Arnold: Correct. Yes, it is.
Oliver: So, I think you said 1,200 a day that will average? Cars?
Arnold: Mr. Chairman, Commissioner Oliver, yeah, from White Cloud.
Oliver: So, I was just wondering how many people from Stonesthrow, which White Cloud
is already in progress, will be traveling from Stonesthrow exit out onto White Cloud -- or
onto Cloverdale through White Cloud?
Arnold: There was approximately 20 percent and that was around 186 trips per day.
But we do have -- by making that connection we mitigate some of the effects that are
going north to Fairview Avenue and we also mitigate some of the traffic that will be going
west. The thing that surprised me is how much was going south. I expected quite a bit
more going actually north, but there was 35 percent of our traffic going into the subdivision
to the south, but, again, all those roads were well below a thousand trips per day that we
were impacting.
Yearsley: Okay. Just out of curiosity -- and I don't know if you know the answer to this --
how do they come up with that -- those percentages on -- you know, because they are
showing, you know, 20 percent going to the west, 35 south. Is that just estimation or what
is -- how do they come up with those numbers; do you know?
Arnold: Mr. Chairman, yeah, I have reviewed a ton of traffic -- I'm not a traffic engineer,
but they take their trips, they assume 140 units, seven trips roughly per and they plan a
destination, you know, here is where work is, here is where play is, you know, the majority
of the destination is downtown Boise, that's the hot spot, and, then, there is some that will
go, you know, obviously, west or try to hit the interstate and go west of town, but they -- a
traffic engineer looks at destinations and they assign traffic based on flow, the ease of the
access to get to their destination. That's why I thought 35 percent going south through
that subdivision, you're kind of winding through and that's a difficult trip. I -- personally --
and I'm not a traffic engineer, but I personally would find more to the signal than that, but,
even so, the portions of Florence that we are affecting that are local streets, we are way
below the threshold. Even if it were reversed and 35 or 20.
Yearsley: Okay.
Oliver: I would like to think that Deborah McKnight got her question answered as far as
what is a choker. Hopefully that -- could you go over that one more time and, then,
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explain again your version of not going with a speed bump, but, rather, the other alternate
that you had.
Arnold: Mr. Chairman, Commissioner Oliver -- I'm sorry. A choker -- you take a 36 foot
wide street section and you -- can you pull that up, Bill? Maybe the preliminary plat. You
narrow down the roadway for a section at a time and, then, you widen it back out and
what that does is it -- it visually impairs a driver from speeding through the roadway and it
has been more effective than speed bumps or anything else that ACHD does. The -- what
I'm proposing in addition to what was brought up tonight for a speed bump would be to --
where we have our pedestrian crossings we would raise it up four to six inches where a
pedestrian can cross, which creates the bump that slows the traffic going over those
bumps for the most part. Teenagers usually don't slow down over them. But we are
proposing three of those -- two closest to the subdivision to the west to try to slow it down
consecutively and, then, we got one as we enter in off of Venture into our subdivision. So,
it's just a narrowing down of the roadway for a period of time that visually it slows people
down. It's like, you know, when you're on a freeway and you're going behind someone
that's slow doing 55 and you get to a passing lane and they speed up and it's because
you got this wide area that everyone feels like they can go fast. That's, essentially, on a
36 foot section I'm just doing the reverse, I'm necking it down trying to slow them down
with the visual effects. I don't know if that made sense, but one of the frustrations of
driving on the freeway is every time you get to a passing lane everyone speeds up. And
it's because it's wider. So, I'm just taking the reverse effect and I'm necking it down,
slowing them.
Yearsley: Bill -- well, go ahead.
Oliver: Bill, if I could ask you a question and, then, direct it to Mr. Arnold. You mentioned
that he had not committed as far as that one more amenity. Is that true?
Parsons: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, I think there is still two unanswered
questions here. One, I think -- I think the amenity is worked out. I believe you wanted to
do the sitting area, the plaza areas between the two units.
Arnold: Yes.
Parsons: -- on your concept plan here, so I think the amenity itself -- I believe he's adding
gazebos or sitting areas here between the units, if I understood you correct. The bigger
obstacle that I don't see addressed on this plan -- and I don't disagree with Mr. Arnold, this
probably is open space here, but under our code it's designed -- in order for us to count it
as open space you have to meet a certain requirement and although looking at this plan
he does meet the -- again, the multi -family standards for open space, so, for example,
these units -- the square footage for multi -family developments are based on square
footage of the unit, so they are in between 500 and 1,200 square feet is the range. So,
under the multi -family standards the developer has to provide a minimum of 250 square
feet of common open space per unit. So, we take that 250 and we times it by 140 and
that's the amount of open space required for the multi -family development. Now, in order
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for that area to count it has to be a 20-by-20 area, so it has to be 400 square feet. It has
to be dimensioned 20 by 20 for us to count it. In addition to that requirement the site
exceeds five acres in size. So, now we have to apply our open space standards under
our open space standards in our code. So, therefore, he has to provide an additional ten
percent open space and comply with those standards. The plan here does not meet that
and I'm going to be very frank with you, it does not comply. I don't see where he has a 50
by 100 open space area to meet that. Landscape buffers along local streets don't count
for open space. It may count towards his requirement for his multi -family, the 20 foot
landscape buffer along the west boundary, south boundary, that all counts towards the
multi -family standards, but what he is missing is that ten percent required under the open
space requirements in 3-G and that's what he needs to address. In looking at this plan
see quite possibly one unit disappearing, if not more. I don't know how he can address
that and I don't know if you have a comfort level that it has been addressed or if you want
to continue this out or if you feel comfortable moving this forward without knowing how
that -- that open space interacts with this plan.
Oliver: For me that was one of my concerns was to find out if that -- if that was addressed
and I just didn't feel like it was, so I wanted to get clarification, make sure I didn't fall
asleep at some point and miss that, so --
Parsons: It hasn't been addressed.
Oliver: Would you mind addressing it?
Arnold: Commissioner Oliver, yeah, a conversation that Bill probably wasn't privy to was
that I did talk to Sonya before she went on vacation and one of the things we discussed
was the two additional amenities and the area -- the qualified open area and what I have
discussed is in the center of where those gazebos are is actually pushing -- we tried to
create a wide buffer along Florence just for that visual effect and what I can do is I can
push those units north and push them south and angle them out to get additional wide
open space and that's why when we saw the condition of approval we agreed. I mean
didn't have time -- this was Tuesday when I was working with Sonya on this -- I didn't have
time to modify my site plan prior to tonight, but I told Sonya that we would show the two
additional plaza areas and they are actually not going to be just the gazebos, they are
going to be raised garden areas where -- they are kind of unique. They have got some
troughs that are up around the clubhouse, it looks like a barn, and they are going to use --
do the same similar type of thing in those plaza areas in between those four buildings with
raised gardening or raised bed gardening and, then, a sitting area. So, that area is --
yeah, we can meet the code and that's why we agreed to all the conditions of the staff
report and we just -- meet that at the time of either City Council or I can have that modified
by then and we would be able to show that. But we will comply with code.
Oliver: That would qualify as a modification?
Parsons: Yeah. Certainly if -- if you can widen those units open and still get a 50 by 100
area or something to that effect and create that area where it could be classified it could
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June 4, 2015
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technically meet the open spaced area. The community gardens that he spoke to and the
sitting area, that is an amenity under the multi -family standards and also our open -- site
amenity standards, too. So, I think he's addressed that pretty much. I wasn't privy to that
conversation. I'm not sure how much setback you have between the units there at this
time in this graphic. Steve, what's your distance currently at this point here?
Arnold: Those are roughly 20 feet in area.
Parsons: But you're going to be able to get 50 feet between those?
Arnold: Yeah. I believe so. Easily.
Oliver: Where are you looking at? Right -- point to it again.
Parsons: Yeah. These center areas located here.
Oliver: That's where the gazebos are going to be as well?
Parsons: Yeah. Those are the sitting -- the raised -- the community gardens, the raised
planters, and as Steve alluded to, he would widen this corridor -- open space corridor
north, south, east, west to get a greater open space in this area to comply with the open
space requirements.
Oliver: Okay. All right. That's all I have. Thank you.
Parsons: He will have to demonstrate that for staff for sure.
Oliver: Yes. Yes.
Yearsley: I'm sorry, at this point we -- we cannot allow any additional questions. After the
hearing's over you're more than welcome to ask the questions to the applicant or after the
meeting you're more than welcome to come and talk to us or staff, but at this point we
can't allow additional questions to come up. I apologize. Any other questions? Okay.
Thank you. All right. So, with that I would entertain a motion to close the public hearing
on AZ 15-005, PP 15-006 and CUP 15-009.
Oliver: Mr. Chairman?
Wilson: Mr. Chairman?
Oliver: Go ahead.
Wilson: I move we close the public hearing on AZ 15-005, PP 15-006 and CUP 15-009.
Oliver: Second.
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June 4, 2015
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Yearsley: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. All in favor say aye.
Opposed? Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
Yearsley: Well, that was a lot of information to process. Would anyone like to go first
or --
Oliver: I will go if you don't mind.
Yearsley: Absolutely.
Oliver: Just real quick. I have some -- I don't think that saying that this is a rubber
stamped development is correct. It's very hard for us to sit up here and look at what is in
the master plan, what's allowable to go in there and you have to look at what looks
appropriate and what just doesn't fit. I can certainly understand the high traffic count.
agree with the number -- the percentages that probably aren't correct, but it looks like it
would be much higher. I just don't see anything that can be done. One of the things that
they get -- even if you have residential in that area, you can't stop a house from building --
to building a two or three story home and looking in your backyard. That's just impossible
to do. So, even if this is residential, you can't stop that. Somebody is going to build in
there and it's a possibility that they are going to be building a house that they may be
looking in your backyard. That's unfortunate. I have that problem. My -- my biggest
concern is, just like I say, how do we get away from high traffic, how do we get away from
having them come through your driveway -- the neighborhood at an accelerated speed,
which is not right, and I'm hoping that Mr. Arnold has a couple solutions that will help, with
like the choking and the bumps that will help lower that speed through there. But the
actual subdivision -- the actual homes, the rentals, apartments, whatever you want to call
them, look fine. I think they look very nice and I have seen these before. Thank you.
Yearsley: Thank you.
Wilson: I would say I would agree this is going to be built on -- you know, there was a
discussion about Florence and that throughway and as Mr. Arnold said, that throughway,
based on ACHD will be going through. I think the applicant has made the -- you know,
made a tough decision -- or, you know, made a tough situation and tried to address it with
those chokers. I would be interested in those raised crosswalks and would welcome a
motion that addresses that or an additional modification if we were to approve. But, again,
I think -- I listened very carefully, we are not a rubber stamp, and -- but I think a lot of
those concerns were addressed by Mr. Arnold.
Yearsley: Thank you. I, too -- I try to put myself in your situation and how best what I feel
if this came in. I look at the apartments that they put in on the other side of The Village,
the four story apartments, and I'm appreciative that the applicant didn't try to put those
here, because those would not be appropriate here. He tried to tone them down, tried to
make them -- you know, make them look more like a big house. With the two stories, you
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June 4, 2015
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know, I deal with that. My neighbor behind me has a two story home, he looks into his
yard, I look into his yard, it's something that -- it's hard to get away from. The traffic one,
agree, I think that there will be more people going down Florence. I am an engineer, not a
traffic engineer, but what I have experienced is traffic follows the least amount of -- it's like
water, it follows the least amount of resistance and Records is an easy way to get out and
don't know how to address that and I -- I feel for you guys. I don't know -- I like the idea
of the chokers and I really like the idea of the raised crosswalks, because that slows traffic
down. I have been over those bumps a couple times and I have tried to take them fast
and you can't and so personally I would like to see some farther down Florence, but that's
an off -site amenity, which we can't force the developer to make, so -- but I think he's trying
his hardest and he stated he didn't want to connect Florence. He stated he was -- ACHD
told him you will connect Florence. So, I think he's trying to make the best. Could have
this been residential homes? It could have, but trying to sell a lot next door to a Walmart
is going to be a harder sell than to have someone with an apartment there, so I can
understand -- and it's already zoned for, you know, an apartment type complex, however,
his density is what -- I think 17 --
Parsons: Fifteen.
Yearsley: -- 15 homes per acre, instead of the 40, which is allowed, which is significantly
less. So, I do feel for you. I do believe that the developer has an option -- you know, has
a chance to develop what he feels is best. We do our best to try to mitigate with what the
homeowners would like, but we still, at the end of the day, have to follow our ordinances
and our policies within the city. So, I think it looks pretty good considering those items.
do agree that we probably should add conditions to add a special needs sign at the end of
his subdivision at Florence and, then, to -- at the crosswalks along Florence to have
raised crosswalks. So, with that I would entertain a motion.
Oliver: Okay. I will give it a shot.
Yearsley: All right.
Oliver: This will -- I may need some help on this. After considering all staff, applicant, and
public testimony I move to recommend file numbers AZ 15-005, PP 15-006 and CUP 15-
009 as presented in the staff report for the hearing date of June 4th, 2015, with the
following modifications: Okay. So, that he add special needs signs at the entrance --
correct?
Yearsley: At the exit of his subdivision --
Oliver: Right.
Yearsley: --on Florence.
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June 4, 2015
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Oliver: To Florence. And that he puts in the raised crosswalk -- crosswalks, as well as he
complies with the open space that was not on the original plan. And is there anything
need to add -- any specifics with that? That open --
Parsons: I guess my recommendation that he revises his plan prior -- ten days prior to the
City Council, so they can act on it appropriately.
Oliver: So be it.
Wilson: Second.
Yearsley: I have a motion and a second to approve file number AZ 15-005, PP 15-006,
and CUP 15-009. All in favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
Yearsley: Thank you. Next on list we will -- actually, let's take a few minutes and allow
those who want to leave to leave and maybe use the restroom.
(Recess: 8:08 p.m. to 8:16 p.m.)
H. Public Hearing: PP 15-008 Normandy Subdivision by Schultz
Development Located at 4145 S. Locust Grove Road Request:
Preliminary Plat Approval Consisting of 110 Building Lots and 9
Common Lots on 26.93 Acres of Land in an R-8 Zoning District
Yearsley: All right. Let's get started again. Thank you for waiting. Next on the agenda is
public hearing PP 15-008, Normandy Subdivision. Let's begin with the staff report.
Parsons: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission. Next item on the
agenda is the Normandy Subdivision. The site consists of 26.93 acres of land. It's
currently zoned R-8 within the city limits and is located on the west side of Locust Grove in
between Amity and Victory Roads. This property was annexed in 2007, also called the
Normandy Subdivision. Over time the applicant had submitted subsequent time
extensions to keep the plat valid and, then, ultimately, the economy caught them and they
just did not decide to keep it valid and the plat -- the old plat expired. The subdivision that
we will be discussion this evening will be similar to what was acted on and approved in the
city -- by the city in 2007 as well. I'd also mention to the Commission that a development
agreement was not required for this property when it was annexed in in 2007. So, again,
the applicant is here to discuss 110 residential lots and nine common lots in the proposed
R-8 district. The Comprehensive Plan for this property is low density residential. The plat
before you this evening has a gross density of 4.1 dwelling units to the acre, which is
slightly above the low density residential comp plan designation. Typically in that
designation we anticipate three or less dwelling units to the acre, so they are a little bit
higher than what's allowed there, but the zoning, as allowed in 2007, would allow a
maximum density up to eight dwelling units to the acre. So, they are on the low end of
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June 4, 2015
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that medium density range and the zoning density allowed by the R-8 district. In the staff
report Sonya prepared for you she mentioned to you that there would be an extension of
the stub street, Picasso Street, that's currently adjacent to the subdivision -- stubbed to
the south boundary -- or north boundary and the south boundary of the adjacent
subdivision and, then, there was also another access point proposed to Locust Grove as
the main entrance to the site. The applicant is proposing to develop this in three phases,
as you can see to the left here, and the first phase will contain the two entrance points, the
secondary -- the primary entrance and the extension of the stub street along the north
boundary. In the staff report staff -- or Sonya had raised concerns with the amount of
open space that was proposed for the development. The applicant -- the plan before you
this evening is that revised plat and revised landscape plan that depicts the ten percent
open space required by the ordinance, which will consist primarily of the large central park
that you see here, the Locust Grove Street buffers, which are 25 -- a minimum of 25 as
required and, then, some micropath connections that lead to the park as well. The one
proposed amenity will be a tot lot that you see here located on the central open space
park. Sample elevations were submitted for your review tonight. Because some of the
lots do back up along Locust Grove staff is recommending that we review those prior to
issuing a building permit to insure that there is some modulation and some material
changes along the back side of those elevations along the arterial roadways, which is
consistent to what the Commission acted on over the previous and past subdivisions
throughout the years here. Staff did receive written testimony from the applicant in
agreement with all conditions in the staff report. To my knowledge we have not received
any written testimony on this application and staff is recommending approval of the
application with the conditions stated in the staff report. At this time I will conclude my
presentation and stand for any questions.
Yearsley: Are there any questions? So, a question on this. A development agreement
wasn't on the initial. Are we requesting a development agreement on this or can we
request a development agreement?
Parsons: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, no, because this is only a
preliminary plat and the zoning is already established and there is no annexation or
rezone application accompanying this plat. There is -- you're basically reviewing against
what the ordinance allows.
Yearsley: Okay.
Parsons: So, there is no avenue for you to require that.
Yearsley: Okay. I didn't know if it was needed, but I was just curious about that. Would
the applicant like to come forward? Please state your name and address for the record.
Schultz: Good evening, Mr. Chairman and Commissioners. Matt Schultz. 8421 South
Ten Mile in Meridian. Here on behalf of Jim Patterson, the owner of the property. This is
a project I got approved back in '07. Very, very similar to what is before you. It is an R-8
with 110 lots. It's about an even mix of 50 by 105, 110, some 60 by 105, 110s and that's
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June 4, 2015
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kind of your two car, three car garage breakdown. Get a good mix. Some of the things
that have changed since '07 -- I'm going to try to use your little screen here, if I can do it
left-handed. The entrance used to be down here. It's been moved to the middle, which
know the neighbor here and the neighbor here like that it's in the middle. Don't ask me
why we had it down there, but it seemed like a good idea at the time, but it's in the middle
now. There used to be a stub street across the canal planned by both adjacent
subdivisions. Since then Reflection Ridge was actually built. I'm the project manager of
that one, and they went in and were successful in talking to ACHD and the City Council
and saying, hey, look, this isn't even required and so it was never built to really get rid of it,
so the extra long block length there now, so we had to -- this used to be one long block
with a stub street, now it's broken up into two blocks to meet code exactly and, then, there
is an open space up here now that's actually about -- almost as wide as the lot that's over
here. I know that -- I talked to him earlier and they like the fact that they are looking out
onto a really wide open space there in the corner. That's where our pathway is and that's
where the sewer needs to connect anyways back through there, so it works out. And,
then, last, but not least, Sonya -- we had miscalculated about 7,000 square feet of open
space, so we went into that area I just circled and an area right here and we were able to
get that ten percent. We were missing it. It was our mistake. If you look at the open
space from 2007 versus now there is -- I think we were at five percent back then, so it's --
there is actually -- this is a -- we had a good subdivision. This is a better subdivision in
terms of open space and connectivity and it's a good mix of lots. I'm sorry it's a little
boring in terms of -- there is not a lot of drama with traffic. I know ACHD approved the
traffic study back in '07 with the same amount of lots and they said if you don't change the
number of lots we don't want to do a traffic study. You're fine. I know Locust Grove is in
the five year work plan. So, in the next five years they are going to come in and -- so,
right now we are just going to do detached sidewalk and they will come in and do curb,
gutter, and full widening, but we are going to allow enough right of way for them to do that,
37 foot half, plus the 25 landscape buffer. It's really a pretty straight forward project. I --
every once in awhile I get lucky and get one of these. Not always. But I did do the one
across the -- across the way. It's a great neighborhood. Really excited about the
neighborhood. All the utilities are right there. There is a sewer line in Locust Grove and a
sewer line over here. There is water lines in both. Like Bill said, our first phase is going to
make both connections for emergency access and water looping. That was how we
dictated our phasing to make sure we got that in there. So, all in all we are just asking for
your approval on the -- we addressed -- I think today we got in revised plats that
addressed those conditions of approval and revisions to both the preliminary plat and the
landscape plan. So, that's already done moving forward to City Council and we ask for
your approval.
Yearsley: Are there any questions? Thank you.
Schultz: Thanks.
Yearsley: I have got a couple people signed up on this. However, I think they were from
the previous subdivision, because some of the names look familiar. So, I'm just going to
ask is there anybody that would like to testify on this subdivision? Okay. So, with that we
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June 4, 2015
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don't need to have Matt come forward again. So, I would entertain a motion to close the
public hearing on PP 15-008.
Wilson: Mr. Chairman?
Yearsley: Commissioner Wilson.
Wilson: I move we close the public hearing on PP 15-008.
Oliver: Second.
Yearsley: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. All in favor say aye.
Opposed? Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
Yearsley: Any comments? You know, this one actually looks good. I like the look of it.
actually like the pathway coming in on the corner. I think it gives better access to --
potentially to the school in the future. So, I like the little park area, so I think it looks good.
So, if there is no other comments, I would entertain a motion.
Oliver: Mr. Chairman?
Yearsley: Commissioner Oliver.
Oliver: After considering all staff, applicant and public testimony, I move to recommend
approval to the City Council of file number PP 15-008 as presented in the staff report for
the hearing date of June 4th, 2015.
Wilson: Second.
Yearsley: I have a motion and a second to approve the file number PP 15-008, Normandy
Subdivision. All in favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
I. Public Hearing: RZ 15-008 Avebury Subdivision by Avebury
Development, LLC Located North Side of E. Pine Avenue and
West of N. Locust Grove Road Request: Rezone of Three (3)
Acres of Land from the L-O Zoning District to the R-15 Zoning
District
J. Public Hearing: PP 15-007 Avebury Subdivision by Avebury
Development, LLC Located North Side of E. Pine Avenue and
West of N. Locust Grove Road Request: Preliminary Plat
Approval Consisting of Fifteen (15) Single Family Residential
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June 4, 2015
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Lots and Five (5) Common Lots on Approximately Three (3)
Acres in a Proposed R-15 Zoning District
Yearsley: Next one on the list we are going to do the last one, the public hearing on RZ
15-008 and PP 15-007, and I appreciate the patience of all you guys waiting here and let's
begin with the staff report.
Parsons: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission. Next application
before you consists of three acres, currently zoned L-O within the city limits. The
applicant is here tonight to discuss a rezone and preliminary plat for this property to
rezone that L-O zone to the R-15 zoning district. You can see that the property is
primarily surrounded by residential development in the city along the west, north, and east
boundaries. The approved subdivision name is Danbury Fair Subdivision and it's zoned
R-8 and, then, to the south boundary we have the Five Mile Creek, Pine Avenue, a
remnant -- or at least one parcel zoned R-15 and the rest of the property is in Ada County
zoned R-1. This property was annexed into the city in 1991 Danbury Fair Subdivision. At
that time a development agreement was not required as part of the subdivision approval,
so, basically, the developer that time had an L-O office zoning on the property, but never
had a concept plan or any development plan for this piece. Again, the applicant is here to
rezone this to the R-15 zoning district consistent with the MDR designation on the
Comprehensive Plan and the reason for the R-15 zoning district this evening is to allow
them to increase their density and provide some dimensional standard relief from the R-8
standards. So, the R-15 zoning standards allow smaller lot sizes and the street frontage,
where in an R-8 zone we do require a bigger lot size and street frontage. Here is what the
applicant is proposing. The preliminary plat will consist of 15 single family detached
homes, so they will be narrower homes. Stuffed along the north boundary we have two
streets that were platted with the Danbury Fair Subdivision. The applicant is actually
proposing a reduced street section that would connect the two roadways. It's actually a
24 foot wide roadway section from back of curb to back of curb. So, it's, essentially, a little
bit larger than what our typical alleyway would be. The fire department does support the
reduced street section as proposed by the applicant. Staff has not received comments
from ACHD on the reduced street section, but I would point out to the Commission that
because of this proposed narrower street there will not be any parking allowed on the
street and, therefore, the applicant has proposed a guest parking area into the
development here. Those are nine parking stalls for guests to park there as they visit
future homeowners. The other -- one other item I'd like to point out to you is typically the
UDC does require five foot attached sidewalks on both sides of the street. In this
particular graphic the applicant is now proposing sidewalk on the north boundary of that
proposed sidewalk. Again, I was hoping to have ACHD's comments on the requirement
for that sidewalk. Staff has a condition in the staff report that the sidewalks be
constructed if a sidewalk cannot be built in front of the homes. So, again, although we
can't waive that requirement, City Council can take that under advisement as they get
there and certainly staff will be looking for ACHD's support on no sidewalk on the north
boundary as well. Because this site is under five acres in size there is no really open
space requirement. However, the UDC does require -- typically requires a 25 foot wide
landscape buffer adjacent to Pine Avenue. If you have had a chance to look at the
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June 4, 2015
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preliminary plat there is the Five Mile Creek that runs along the frontage of this property
and the Nampa -Meridian Irrigation District has, essentially, a 90 foot wide irrigation
easement across this property -- at least 80 feet of it impacts this property. Ten feet ends
up in the right of way. So, that limits the designs of this subdivision quite a bit and so
typically the way our ordinance is written is whenever your site is impacted by a large
irrigation facility or an easement and you can't accommodate landscaping within that
easement, the applicant has to plat a five foot wide common lot that abuts that easement,
so that at least we can get the required trees and the required plantings by the ordinance.
The plan before you this evening shows that all of that landscape buffer is provided on the
buildable lot, so the applicant is going to have to modify the plan or work with the irrigation
district in order to plant trees in that landscaping within that Five Mile Creek irrigation
easement. Because the creek is a protected waterway staff is not recommending that it
be tiled or piped, it will remain open as part of the project and as an amenity the applicant
is also proposing to you to construct a five foot sidewalk that connects to a ten foot multi-
use pathway that runs along the west boundary of Danbury Fair, so you can see that in
this exhibit here, if you can follow my cursor. Keep in mind that this pathway extension is
predicated on getting approval from the HOA. The applicant -- this is not part of their
project boundary. This is a common lot created with that subdivision. Staff -- the
applicant has not provided staff any agreement from the HOA as to if they will allow that
extension or not. So, that is something that you need to take under advisement this
evening. In my staff report I did have a requirement that the applicant run a five foot
sidewalk from each of the homes and provide a pathway connection from the front
porches of each of those homes to provide a sidewalk connection or a walkway from the
front of the homes to that pathway. If he's unable to get permission from the HOA to do
that, then, we are going to require that sidewalk on the north boundary of the public
roadway. Again, my condition -- or my provision in the staff report was the applicant was
to provide an exhibit for you showing how he was going to comply with that requirement.
This evening he has not provided that exhibit. To let you know, this is -- he wants to
discuss that with you this evening. The applicant did provide sample elevations for you
this evening of similar photos that -- a similar project in Boise. Staff has -- has a condition
-- or because the applicant is proposing a rezone of this project, we are recommending a
development agreement with the rezone and one of the requirements of the development
agreement is that staff wants to review every single elevation proposed within the
subdivision to insure that the future homes built on this site comply or substantially comply
with the renderings that you're looking at today, particularly with the front porches, the
patios, the mix of materials. One thing I would to tell Commission is we do not have any
renderings of the street facing elevations from the rear, so -- I don't know what the garage
side is going to look like. Certainly if that's something you want to look at before moving
this forward, it's certainly within your purview this evening to request that from the
applicant. Staff has not received any written testimony on this application, nor received
any comments on the staff report from the applicant. Again, staff is recommending
approval of this subdivision and the rezone, subject to the conditions of approval in the
staff report and the recommended provision in the development agreement. With that
will conclude my presentation and stand for any questions you might have.
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June 4, 2015
Page 42 of 59
Yearsley: Are there any questions? I, actually, have a couple. Bill -- right there. Now, is
the applicant currently proposing a sidewalk in front -- in the front yards of all those
homes?
Parsons: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, as the plan was presented to staff
there is a sidewalk that comes through the proposed guest parking lot along the west
boundary of that and, then, the sidewalk would only go along the frontage of the five lots
here. So, that would be Lots 1 through 5, Block 1.
Yearsley: Okay.
Parsons: But nothing is proposed in front of these homes at this time.
Yearsley: Okay. Thank you. Would the applicant like to come forward.
Schultz: Good evening, Commissioners. My name is Matt Schultz. 8421 South Ten Mile
Road. Every once in awhile -- this has never happened where I have had two in one
night, especially back to and I have been doing this for 20 years now. Either engineering
or planning or construction management, so I don't know if it's my lucky night or not. We
will see. This one's, obviously, a little different in terms of the -- it's been a vacant lot for --
well, forever, but especially since '91 when it got zoned, you know, 25 years and for
whatever reason they zoned it L-O. Don't know the reasoning for it. But, obviously, if it
was a good place for L-O it would probably be light office by now and would -- I would bet
that if you don't want to change the zone it will probably be a vacant lot for another 25
years. You know, I think that a zone change to some residential is appropriate in this
location. Light office with the drain being in front of it I think absolutely kills it. I'm unsure
if that drain wasn't there that this would be a good location for light office with all the other
choices that are in the City of Meridian in terms of where is the best place for office space.
I'm not so sure -- I'm not an expert, but this one doesn't feel like it just -- it begs for light
office. So, we think the request for a zone change to residential is appropriate, so the
question becomes what kind of residential. We started out looking at R-8, which is what's
around us. Existing R-8 zoning. R-8 zoning allows a 5,000 square foot lot with standard
frontage, 4,000, 40 foot frontage, if you have an alley. We asked ACHD if they -- if we
could do an alley back here and they went, no, we want a public road and we will give you
a 29 foot sidewalk on one side, even though we don't have that in the staff report. I think
that's coming out tomorrow. They will concur with that in lieu of an alley. It's got good
access to the back. I know the people that live there don't think that, because they
haven't had any people driving through there forever, since they have lived there, so
acknowledge the fact the change probably isn't good for them in terms of access, but in
terms of 15 lots on two accesses, ACHD doesn't even blink, that is not -- the roads are
well -- there is walking paths and those roads can handle it, so it's not a capacity issue in
terms of traffic on 15 detached single family homes and we -- when we were looking at
R-8 -- even R-8 allows a duplex, you know, so we looked at duplex lots, which would be --
essentially be a 80 foot lot with a zero lot line in the middle that's attached. You can get
probably 12 units in there duplex. Four-plexes, you know, that could be allowed. And
what we settled on was we wanted to go detached to provide the highest and best value
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June 4, 2015
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and be more like our neighbors in terms of having detached and not a shared wall. So,
we thought that was important. I had worked on a project three years ago by Harris
Ranch and saw what they did, it was really nice, above 200,000, homes between 1,300
and 1,800 square feet. Alley loaded. Those pictures that you saw there were -- they have
an alley in the back and they fronted on a road. This -- we have a road in the back, with a
driveway, they didn't -- they only had a three foot driveway. We had a 20 foot driveway for
parking. They had parking in front of theirs. We don't have any parking in front of ours,
because we have got a drain there. So, it's similar, but -- but different. Our houses are
about a hundred feet away from the travel lane of Pine. Normally what you just saw were
only about 80 feet from the travel way of Locust Grove. So, this is set back even further
then normal, because we have about 35 percent of our area taken up by road right of way,
the drain or the drain easement. So, we had a big chunk of our land taken out. So, we
need some flexibility. I think this site begs for somebody that wants to take a chance, get
very detailed with the architecture and do something that fits and looks good coming in on
Pine, which is a main entrance into downtown Meridian between Fairview and Franklin.
So, they have done that and tried to do something that looks good. Our intent was not to
have front porches facing out on Pine, even though that's what we submitted. The reason
for submitting those is to show you that, hey, we can do a 20 to 24 foot wide house that
looks great that's between 1,300 and 1,700 square feet. The 30 homes that surround us
are between 1,000 and 1,400 square feet. Yes, I acknowledge we are two story and they
are one story. Most of them have a two car garage. We have a two car garage. We will
meet -- even though we are asking for R-15, we are asking for that to allow some flexibility
on that -- that 40 foot frontage down to a 30 and 34. We are still going to keep the same
R-8 side yard setbacks, which are five and five. We will keep those. We will put that in
the development. We still have the same setback to the garage, which is 20, as R-8. We
will do that as well. That gives us our two parking spaces in the driveway while two in the
garage. Although the parking lot wasn't required, there is a sewer easement through
there, we thought, hey, let's do a guest parking lot in there, too, as just an extra gesture
towards the protest and we would say, hey, where are the people going to park, they are
just going to park in our cul-de-sac. Well, we have some room for that built into our
second plan. You know, back to the setback, the difference between R-15 and R-8 is an
R-8 requires a 12 foot rear -- or is it a ten? I mean we are talking very subtle -- you know,
subtle differences, even though R-15 allows a three foot side yard setback, a three and
three, we are going to go with five and five. The utility companies want five and five and,
plus, we are going to do an exclusive use easement. The way these are laid out that the
one owner in those little nooks that you see there, that will be an entry slash patio area.
They will get the exclusive use of the extra five feet and the next guy gets the exclusive
use of the other five feet as you -- the other ten feet as you go down the row. To
maximize some private space -- because typically alleys, which these -- these want to be
like an alley -loaded product, don't have a lot of private space. So, it will be on the side.
We -- we worked real closely with Nampa -Meridian Irrigation District. They wanted 35 feet
from the top of ditch bank clear. You know, the only approach. This is one of their bigger
drains. They need to access it with big equipment, clean it out every once in a while.
They want to leave it open and I talked them down to 28 and that's what's shown here and
those trees were over the lot line, but the lot line is drawn at 28 minimum. It varies
between 28 and 30. 1 asked them for 23 last night. They said, Matt, we can't do it. We
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June 4, 2015
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need to hold the line on that. And I -- I supported, you know, a building that supported
that. I said, hey, I need an extra five feet. The ramification of that is that this pathway
here, even if we could get the HOA's permission to -- to build this right here, that falls in
that 28 feet along side of this one and that's into no man's land. So, Nampa -Meridian has,
essentially, said we don't want any improvements in that area. What I wanted to talk
about with staff today is we still want to build the sidewalk through here. If somebody
wants to keep on going and walk on the ditch bank road they can. We are not going to
ask for a specific development -- you know, a license agreement with the irrigation district
for a -- for an improved pathway, but there is a gravel road there that people walk on.
Over on this side there is an existing home, a really beautiful trellis landscaping. The
pathway can't go through here. The existing Five Mile path runs here and runs along the
road here. I don't know if you have noticed that out there, they have got a little detached
pathway there. That's where it runs. Nampa -Meridian said that's where it belongs. We
don't want a pathway over here. We want this to be a maintenance route. Please stay
out. So, we can -- we do have the room in our setbacks to put those trees in a five foot
common lot and still maintain a ten foot setback for the home. We are going to ask
Council -- and we ask you for your positive recommendation that we are going to subject
these to architectural. We are going to do a beautiful front facing Pine, but the primary
access is not going to be along Pine with a little sidewalk, it's going to come from the
driveway and probably a little side -- side yard entry like you come into your own driveway,
you have a little sidewalk into your door, well, ours is going to go in that little side yard and
do a side door. It fits. It's tight. And rarely do I have to look this closely at layouts like
that that last one I showed you, we didn't get this detailed in architecture. Whenever you
can get architecture that promotes efficient land use, I think -- and it's good, we need to
put a semblance of density where your services are, there is an existing sewer line. There
is two water lines. It begs for a good progressive in -fill development and if we had stuck
with R-8 we would probably get 12 lots. We are asking for 15. You know. If you want us
to do 12, well, that's 20 percent. That's a make or break in the business world usually,
you know, so we really would ask for an R-15 that meets code, with some special
consideration because of the drain. You know, if we can get something that looks good,
it's detached, it meets the setbacks and it's at least the same home size or bigger than
what's around you in the area, why not approve it. And that's where we are tonight, is we
are asking for your approval and we are going to go forward to Council and ask for a
waiver of the sidewalk along that north side, we think that's a better landscape strip and if
we shifted everything five feet we are really getting pinched on -- we would have to lose
five feet out of the house and we -- we could do it. It's not a deal breaker. We are asking.
We don't have to. So, it's not really -- a sidewalk to nowhere and we think the one on the
south side serves the greater good connectivity. So, I'll stand for any questions and I'm
sure I will be back for comments.
Yearsley: Are there any questions? I don't have any at this time. Thank you. I got a few
people signed up. Is it Gary -- I can't pronounce the name -- last name. Please come
forward. I'm sure you have heard this all night, but, please, state your name and address
for the record.
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June 4, 2015
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Wertin: Gary Wertin. 1146 North Shreveport Avenue, Meridian. My concerns on this
project are, first of all, a very busy, overcrowded Pine Street already. With the addition of
15 does not mean 15 people, that means 15 families and sometimes there is two and
three cars per person, which brings up the another point of the parking not even allowed
in their -- on their street. Where are they going to park their cars and my fear is it's going
to spill over into the subdivision and people are going to park where ever they can find a
place. And on Stonehenge Avenue that's going to be another direct artery right off of
Fairview over to Pine to allow everybody to cut through, because they don't want to come
down Locust Grove to get onto Pine and I'm not -- I can't even say what the impact is
going to be on the -- on the canal. I know it's protected, but how protected can it be with
15 families right on the border of it. Thank you.
Yearsley: Thank you. Judy Weatherhead.
Weatherhead: First of all, thank you for letting us talk to you tonight about this. My name
is Judy Weatherhead and I live at 1049 North Petersburg in Meridian. My concern -- my
request to you is to lower the density on this lot from R-15 to R-8. The homes are just
crowded in there, just boxed in there tightly. The developer has not allowed any room for
parking on the street. We live -- I don't know if you can see Petersburg anyway, but
Petersburg is a small cul-de-sac and so I know when we have guests we are parked in
our driveway and if our guests park a little bit too far, the mailman can't get in to deliver
mail and it's like that the entire curve of that cul-de-sac. So, he's allowed -- he's allowed
these spaces here for eight overflow, but just one family I know of has -- there is two
adults, two teenagers, and they all have guests and we have people who come in that
come to visit a lot, so you can't stay that these driveways with two parking places and nine
overflow are going to service 15 homes. I would like to see ten homes there, possibly,
and maybe have two areas for overflow parking or configure the homes differently, so that
residents can park on the street and I think if you even just drive through our subdivision,
all along our subdivision you will see people parking on the street and they, too, have 20
foot driveways. So, I just don't -- you know, I know development is there. I have no
problem with some homes being there. It's better than weeds and a vacant lot. But I think
we need to think of the reality of putting 15 little shoe box homes in that tight of an area,
what impact it's going to have on the parking, coming in and out of the area with the
children playing and that sort of thing. Thank you.
Yearsley: Thank you. Next on the list is -- is it Gail Perry?
Perry: I'm Gail Perry. 1027 North Petersburg Way. I share the same concerns about the
sheer number of dwellings. There was a letter sent back at the end of the year that talked
about 13 dwelling places and now it's increase to 15 and it just seems like a lot to put into
a small area and, you know, obviously, the same concerns with parking and when these
single family homes have birthdays and holiday gatherings, it's just going to really bring in
the amount of vehicles that are -- that are parked in there. I could go into how I have
enjoyed a nice private backyard for several years, but I will spare that. Anyway, thank you
for your time.
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June 4, 2015
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Yearsley: Thank you. Next on the list is Steven Padoris.
Padoris: Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Steve Padoris. I live at 978
North Stonehenge Way. That's about four houses up from Pine. And I'm concerned with
the density -- I mean the R-8, you know, at least you would have some landscaping and
lawns and yards there. But the high density leads to a lot more traffic that will be coming
down Stonehenge leading on to Pine Avenue and in the mornings when the school kids
are out, that little intersection really gets backed up and people trying to get out. You
have parents dropping off their kids, waiting for the bus to come drop them off and/or in
the afternoon pick them up. I think this additional traffic is just going to make it so much
more congested and just make it a safety issue for all the kids that are running back and
forth and -- along the street right there and that's -- I wish there was an access that they
could come off of Pine Avenue. Apparently that's not going to -- you know, that's not in
the works, but that would certainly aleve a lot of the problems and questions that, you
know, the residents in the Danbury Subdivision have. So, that's my comments and where
live with the traffic now, sometimes it's very difficult for me to back out of my driveway
and the way people race around the corner to head to Pine, you really have to be in a --
do have to keep my eyes open to, you know, make sure I don't get hit or, you know, back
out in a certain way, because people fly through there. Now if we are going to have an
additional 30 cars in the morning and in the evening, it just makes it a lot harder to -- you
know, for us to get in and out of our homes there, so -- that's what I have to say. Thank
you.
Yearsley: Thank you. Ruben Rogers. Okay. I got Wayne, but I can't get the last name.
Taylor: My name is -- my name is Wayne Taylor. I live at 1018 North Stonehenge Way.
I'm the same way. I had the same concern about the entrance in and out of Pine. We
need a light out there right now. I mean we have got cars that are almost down to my
house and I'm the sixth house in and they line up there every morning to get out and we
can't get out, because Pine is too heavy. I think you need to leave it zoned L-O. I don't
know who is going to build there, but I just don't think there is any houses -- that we need
to put into that subdivision because of Pine. If you widen Pine, put a light out there,
maybe you could do something with it, but at this point I don't see anything that you can
do with it. Thank you.
Yearsley: Thank you. Kathy Salloway. All right. Jesse Little. Or Light. Little. All right.
Little: Jesse Little. 1036 North Killdare. I'm just afraid for my children. You guys are
going to access right through the cul-de-sac there. I'm in a construction business, I know
how it goes. The ground work is very dangerous, especially for little kids to be around.
Skinny home, because that's how he described it. Skinny. Nook. You can put makeup
on a pig it's still a pig. It doesn't match the neighbors' houses. I just don't see 15 homes
going in there. If you can cut it down half that would probably be great. I can guarantee
the developer is not going to live in one of those. Why should we have to live next to
them? Thanks.
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Yearsley: Thank you. Larry Leach. Okay. Tonya Norrell.
Norrell: My name is Tonya Norrell. I live at 1009 Killdare Place and the whole reason
moved to that particular house I live in because it's a cul-de-sac there is no through traffic
there. Every house in that cul-de-sac has children and pets. At first I was concerned
about the houses being able to see into all of our backyards, who we have had the
privilege of having private backyards over the years. However, it looks like there is some
pretty good space between the new houses and the fence line there. The added parking
that I see in the plan is great for the first five houses. When you consider the people --
visiting people at the end of these -- the 15 houses over here, they are not going to walk
ten houses to park, they are going to park in our cul-de-sac, they are going to park down
the street. There are not going to walk ten houses to park. If they maybe resituated that
extra parking centrally it wouldn't be as bad, but, again, I'm still against putting a through
street in a cul-de-sac. It's going to lower the property values there with the through street.
It's going to -- and like they mentioned, there are two bus stops for this whole subdivision.
One is at Fairview. One is at Pine. And people use Stonehenge as a way to get through
that neighborhood from Fairview to Pine and there are just a bunch of kids at each of
those bus stops. Like they were saying, if each house had two cars, that's 60 cars driving
in front of my house every day and that's once a day. That's not coming home. So, there
is a 120 cars going in front of my house and that's if they just go to work and come home
and don't have kids with cars. I know that one of my neighbors has a daycare ran at her
home and that cul-de-sac serves as a play area. There is only one park that I know of in
the Stonehenge Subdivision, maybe two places that are situated for the subdivision to
play in. They are very small and they are not anywhere near this area. I think this area
would be better suited as a park than more houses. And, again, like I said, the parking
that they have for this area and the extra parking is great for the first five houses and it's
just -- there is not enough space for people to come visit. If I have friends visiting the first
couple houses have friends visiting, it's going to be a fight over who gets to park in front of
my house and that's my big concern. My kids -- you know, my kids play basketball
outside. They skateboard. The scooter. Other kids use that cul-de-sac to play in. I just
don't see 15 houses being a good idea as far as space and traffic goes.
Yearsley: Thank you. Rebecca Leach.
Leach: My name is Rebecca Leach. I live at 1013 North Petersburg Way. My concern is
the kids in the cul-de-sac. We have little ones across the street. I have my son on the
other side us. There is two little ones and they run around and play. You know, Saturday
nights they are out on their bikes and running from house to house. The concern -- the
parking also, but where are they going to bring in the big equipment to start building this
and start clearing it out? Is that going to come down our street or is that going to go off
the access -- there is one small access off Pine. Is that going to come in through the back
way? You know, I don't want to hear all these trucks and big machines coming by my
house. I am right here on the corner and also the other thing -- yes, that house right
there. We already have a lot of people that come through there and -- but the big trucks is
my concern, too, of the safety of the kids around there and our pets, you know, we walk
them on leashes, but it's still -- the privacy, too. Our backyards, right up to that. And we
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June 4, 2015
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sit out on our patio. All year long we sit out there. Are we going to get big trees? You
know, I don't know if that's the time to bring that up, but are they going to put mature trees
in for privacy. So, thank you very much for listening.
Yearsley: Thank you. Barbara -- I won't even try. Is there a Barbara? No? Brian Tanner
or Turner?
Turner: Brian Turner. I live at 1345 East Shellbrook Drive in the Danbury Subdivision and
I'm not directly impacted by this development close to my house, but I do have a vacant
lot behind, which is two to three acres, which is just east of this lot, so -- and I realize my
suggestion may -- you may not be in any power to do anything about it, but maybe the
developer, you know, has some decision making ability, too. So, it's just two points of
hopefully constructive disapproval. I think the housing is too dense on two points. The
houses being two story in a subdivision that's all one story and being so close to the fence
line, especially on the east and west sides. Actually, I would be curious to know how
close that -- the lot number one is to the fence line. So, for whatever it's worth, if it's in the
power of the -- you know, changing the zoning -- or the developer financially to make this
suitable -- at least maybe consider single level homes or perhaps doing away with Lots 1
and 17 at the ends to get away -- to help not be so invasive to the privacy of the neighbors
on both sides and that's all I had to say.
Yearsley: Thank you. John -- and I can't pronounce the last name either. Yeah, I think
that's it. Come on down. Please -- you got to talk in the microphone.
Uriana: John Uriana. 942 East Pine. Is there something I can show you? Right here.
Can you see that?
Yearsley: Yes.
Uriana: My property goes clear up there.
Yearsley: Okay.
Uriana: I just want to know what they are going to put in there, for one thing and I'm
worried about the kids and the creek. We have them all time, because the creek runs
right through the corner of our property right here. Right here. My wife has got all these
up nicely. We have built a wire fence down into the water and that kind of keeps them off
our little path that we put in along the front. But they are down there on that creek all the
time and especially when the water is down. The water is always in there year around,
but now in front of my place it's just -- but I'm concerned about the kids and that's it.
Thank you very much.
Yearsley: Thank you. Is it Pat Burris? Robert Stacker. Greg Fastabend.
Fastabend: My name is Greg Fastabend. I live at 1101 North Shreveport in the Danbury
Subdivision. Thank you, Commissioners, for your time tonight and I also want to thank all
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June 4, 2015
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the other neighborhood members, residents, who have taken their time out to testify on
this issue tonight. This proposal, as written, will cause immediate harm to some of the
neighboring properties and does not show good neighbor principles in its design
elements. The large number of lots in a small space is a crowded use of this space and
even if all of the recommendations from staff for this plan are implemented it will not
correct some of the design errors in this plan. Although the proposed homes are similar in
square footage to many of the other homes in the neighborhood, the only way they are
accomplishing this is through the shoe box size lots and going two story, which is not
similar to 90 percent of the other homes in the Danbury Fair Subdivision. We understand
that it is a difficult lot and we appreciate that it is a residential project, rather than -- or a
single detached residential project as opposed to duplex or four-plexes or apartments,
which would, of course, be a worse use of this lot. But there are still some issues with this
plan that could be addressed through your approval or your requirements in the
development agreement that we would like you to implement tonight. The crowded
design is most evident on the west end of the property. If we look at Lot 1 there is a ten
foot space between the west property line and the first building in Lot 1 with no
landscaping buffer. Staff has required that there is landscaping buffer north of those five
homes on the stub street, which would include trees and other landscaping that would
help break up the view of the buildings and help protect the property values of the nearby
homes. This is not included on Lot 1 at all. For this reason we think this is a bad
placement of this lot and that there should be some things done to address the fact that
this two story home will be directly over these neighboring backyards. Whereas most of
these other lots are separated by the 20 foot driveways and the stub streets and the
space, there is not that same allowance on Lot 1 where the homes will be directly over the
neighboring backyards and if you look at any other recent developments we have some
apartments that went in just north of our subdivision where they put two story homes
exactly on the ten foot buffer from the -- the back fence. These are very imposing
buildings over these existing backyards with no landscaping to help break up that look.
Also if we look at the placement of the five homes on the stub street, this is maximizing
the limit of 150 foot stub street without any turn about for emergency vehicles. Again, this
is a very crowded use of this spot. One thing that has not been addressed tonight is trash
collection. On a recycled trash week you're going to have two totes per house, which
means ten totes for these five homes on the stub street. If you look at the top stickers that
Republic has been placing on the trash totes -- I'm sorry for running overtime. They
require a three foot space between each tote, so that the automated collection can pick
them up. If you're going to put ten totes where are they going to go? How is Republic
going to pick them up? Because there is no space for the -- for the vehicle to back up
down that stub street to pick them up and there is very little space in front of the parking
lot area for ten totes on a trash collection day. The last thing we want is residents
dragging their totes out onto Petersburg so that they can be picked up. Putting up to ten
totes up next to this home for most of the day during trash collection. At the same point
there -- the nine parking spaces are well placed for the west end of the development, but
not on the east end of the development, especially since this is being proposed as a
nonparking street. As you get overflow people are going to take the least resistance, park
on Killdare, fill up that cul-de-sac on the east end and walk to the homes. This is
increasingly a problem as the developer has said that they are not planning on putting in a
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June 4, 2015
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sidewalk on the south end of Lots 7 through 17. In the original proposal and in the
elevations that were submitted these are front -loaded homes on a back alley -- or I -- you
know, alley -loaded homes, but with a front entrance and front sidewalk, front patios. The
elevations that he submitted are not representative of what he is now saying in that they
are not intending to put a sidewalk across those back lots. If we look at the north end of
the development --
Yearsley: Can you wrap it up? Your three minutes are up. If you could wrap it up quickly
would appreciate it.
Fastabend: Yeah. My last point there is that in looking at the north side of this
development, as staff has mentioned, there are no elevations listed with the plan. There
is a huge acre of concrete separated by small, green strips in this display. But he was
also added -- allowed to add entry points to each of the homes on that same side, you will
have even less green space and more of a giant concrete alley on the north side of this
development, which is not representative in the elevations that you showed or the
architectural drawings. I would ask that the staff requirements include the variations in --
in materials and setbacks on the homes, so that there is not just a big straight alleyway
and also that -- that Planning and Zoning require this south sidewalk and south entry
points on these homes, so that the front fagades facing Pine present a -- a nice view from
that end, but also don't create little side entries on every one of these homes from the --
from the street if it is approved as is. Thank you for your time.
Yearsley: Thank you. Brady Westman. Wiseman.
Wiersma: I'm Bradley Wiersma from 1151 North Shire Ave. in Danbury Fair and I won't
bore you with all the arguments that failed on the Stonesthrow, so I will just go straight to
-- I think the density is all wrong for this area. If we take a look at the surrounding housing
-- not only Danbury Fair, but even the lot down the street, which is R-8 rated and the other
housing that's down the street, this is just too high density and, like was said, there is no
parking for -- overflow parking one whole end of the complex. Just wanted to get that on
record.
Yearsley: All right. Thank you. Then I have Robert Barnheart. I don't have anybody else
signed up. Is there anybody else that would like to come forward? Please come forward.
Uriona: Thank you. My name is Shannon Uriona and I live at 942 East Pine and I would
like to say something. I know they have green on both sides of this creek. Nampa
Irrigation District will not allow that. I know they won't. And so they say that this is a nice
entrance to come in on Pine. It will never be until they -- Nampa Irrigation District takes a
notion to put in some plants and the pathway along there -- we live on this side -- eastern
side of this and I keep my place really nice and it's weeds the rest of the way. So, it
doesn't look nice. Even if they built this and it looked nice sitting back over there you
would see the weeds first. Thank you.
Yearsley: Thank you. Is there anybody else? Would the applicant like to come back.
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My list is long.
Schultz: So is mine. Matt Schultz. 8421 South Ten Mile here on behalf of Avebury
development. Like I said my first comment it's never easy coming in on a project that has
been vacant forever and especially on two cul-de-sacs, but they are stubbed there and
ACHD wants us to use those. That's where traffic needs to come through and whether it's
eight, ten, or 15, it's still more than none and I know anything in there is going to be bad
and ACHD doesn't -- that is not high traffic. Not medium traffic. Extremely low traffic.
And 15 units on three acres is five to the acre, which is well within the R-8. Way low. We
have a relative low density for the zoning that -- you know, we are asking for R-15 for
some dimensional standards, but we are down in the R-8 density and our homes are at
least as big as their homes, if not bigger, so that isn't really an argument and like you said
before, sometime we have two story homes and I speak to the one gentleman's -- I think
there is 12 feet over here on the west side and that's a private building lot that I'm sure the
homeowner and the builders is going to put a row of trees there. It's not the developer's
requirement to put them in, but builder could put them in. That does meet setback. That
may meet a rear setback I believe in an R-8 of 12. It meets the side. It meets the rear.
We laid this out to meet code in R-15 and R-8, except for we do need the lot widths to be
reduced slightly and so we are asking for R-15. The density is not a big issue. I know
maybe for the resident, but it's gets very subjective when you say I don't like 15, what
about 12? 1 don't like 12. What do you want? I think eight would be good. Well, that's
why we have codes. We have got ordinances. That's why we follow them, because
would never get anything done if that's the way we did business. And so I respectfully
disagree with the owners that this is going to cause a major hazard for people around
there. It's a low traffic generator. It sounds like they already have issues today down Pine
and I strongly encourage them to get with ACHD and talk about those, because even
though we hear from you tonight, things could change, this could not go in. If all goes well
we will start construction late fall, maybe next spring. It will go quick. It's a small site. We
will do everything in our control to control access and make it safe for everybody out there
during construction, but literally it will happen in a few weeks. It's a pretty small
subdivision in terms of construction and try to limit the -- at least the initial groundwork
aspect of it and, then, you have the home builders that need to go in there and do their
thing. So, that's always a little bit of disturbance, but we will meet all the city ordinances
related to that in terms of hours of building and operation while that's going on. As far as
the parking requirement, like I said, it wasn't required. We meet the parking requirement
with our two -- with our driveway and the garage. We meet parking. The nine extra is
nine extra and so that's just one of those things that's going to have to be policed and
heavily patrolled by the HOA and there is going to have to be some enforcement. We will
put a sign down here on the one end that says guest parking down here. No overnight
parking. This is not for your daughter's car. It is not for -- you know, whatever. You need
to park in your driveway, your garage, or your -- you can't live here. You know, that's just
the way it's going to have to be enforced. As far as, like I said, the dwelling units, we don't
think we have a high density. Matching neighbor's houses, like I said, we match them on
square footage or better. We don't match the single story look, but we -- we do match the
square footage and I really think this is going to help property values. I think it's a nice in
a relatively older neighborhood. I think to have some new homes in there it's going to
Meridian Planning & Zoning
June 4, 2015
Page 52 of 59
help, not hurt. I think you're -- I think you are going to be pleasantly surprised and we are
all hoping that this is going to be a positive addition to a relatively older part of Meridian
close to downtown and for the developer to take this chance on something new -- I think is
a chance, but we think it's a good chance this is going to be successful at high prices --
relatively high prices. You know, this isn't going to be a down sell. In fact, I would
imagine it would be higher prices than the homes around them that are out there, you
know, with new -- new features and, you know, cute exterior and we would subject
ourselves to city review of our -- of our very way side as well -- architecture to make sure
we get the proper window treatments, variation in materials, the same thing they are going
to look at on the Pine side and we would subject ourselves to -- on the garage side. We
don't have any problem with that. Sorry. So, as far as architectural review we are in good
hands with Bill and Sonya on that. They don't let bad stuff get by, I know that. So, for kids
safety we are going to have a six foot fence, wrought iron, along that property line.
Whether we contain the parking lot or put a gate in, leave it open, I'm going to leave that --
we will do whatever, you know, to allow access out onto that gravel road. We could do
that. We could put a gate. But we will - homeowners will be able to keep their kids in
their own yard with a fence without them running free. We will have a place for their kids
and their little dog or their -- you know, whatever to where it will be fenced in adjacent to
the drainage. If you notice the Five Mile Creek, there is no fence. I mean you have the
rear yard fence, but, then, you have a pathway and it opens to the drain. That's how we
treat drains. We treat canals differently. Canals we put a fence between the path or road
end and the water itself. The drain that -- yes, there is water in them. It's just how -- even
the city did it on the Five Mile, they didn't put a fence there on that other side and that's
how Nampa -Meridian treats them as well. The canals are considered much more
dangerous than the ditches. Lot 1 1 think is a good lot. That's the one on the end. It
meets all setbacks and if the developer wants to put in trees to screen him from the
adjacent house -- I mean there is two sides to the story here in terms of screening. You
know, I think my builder is going to want screening from him, as well as he wants screen
for me. There is an existing fence around it, an existing six foot fence around the whole
perimeter that if it's falling down we would work with that neighbor to replace, but the
screening goes both ways for sure. As far as trash collection goes, that is a condition of
our approval that we get a sign off from the trash agency. We haven't contacted them yet,
but these driveways exist in several locations around town. They are 24 feet wide.
Twenty, 24 feet, 100, 150 feet long and, then, pull in, pick it up, back out. There is ways
to do it. It's not -- it's not a deal breaker. It doesn't blow up our whole design over trash
collection. As far as the weeds, that is an HOA common lot, between the right of way --
ACHD wants right of way all the way along from the center of the ditch. They want it like
40 feet of right of way and they can have it. We don't care. And, then, from there to our
back property line where you see the trees it's going to be a common lot owned by the
HOA with an exclusive easement to Nampa -Meridian Irrigation District that we are
responsible to maintain for weeds. In fact, the owners told me he was out there doing
weeds the other day and mowing and spraying and -- he owns the property. He'd like to
develop it like this. In the meantime it grows weeds and so when it does develop that's
even going to be more important to keep looking weed free and nice and that's part of the
HOA's responsibility in terms of keeping the weeds down and looking nice for everybody's
-- everybody's good. So, I know it's uncomfortable for us to propose this, but we do
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June 4, 2015
Page 53 of 59
concur with staff in their recommendation for approval. We do concur with staff with the
exception of we would like to delete the off -site sidewalks, because Nampa -Meridian won't
allow it, and we are going to ask for a waiver from the sidewalk on the north side where
we are currently showing trees. That's our request. Council and you may say no and we
will go, okay, we will shift our lots and lose five feet out of the houses. It's not our
preference, but if it's that important we will put it in and if it's not we ask that we don't. So,
with that we ask for your approval. Thank you.
Yearsley: I have a couple quick questions. With building this subdivision I'm assuming
you're going to come in through the subdivision with your equipment to build. Is there a
potential of coming in off of Pine to build that and, then, you know -- so you're not having
as much traffic? I mean I understand you're not going -- you're going through somebody
else's property, so you can't guarantee that, but what's your thinking of how that's
supposed to work?
Schultz: Chairman and Commissioners, absolutely, and that issue came up in terms of
we'd have to get permission from the Danbury Fair HOA to, essentially, have a temporary
construction easement to cross their property so cut -- and also run that by Nampa -
Meridian Irrigation. I don't think they have a problem with us doing it. So, I will be on the
record as saying we are going to try our hardest -- it will make our life easier as well to not
-- there is a potential of mud tracking out in front of those people and we try to control it,
but sometimes it happens, depending on the time if year you're doing work. So, we are
going to do our dangedest to get that -- you know, have them allow us to come in off of
there, instead of through the subdivision for construction. It would make my life easier.
Yearsley: Okay. And, then, is the developer going to build the homes or are you going to
have outside builders build and how is that to be controlled?
Schultz: Chairman and Commissioners, the current developer is looking at potentially
joint venturing, potentially selling, with strict architectural guidelines if he does sell. You
have to build this house with these architectures and he's still working through that. The
first step is to get this approved, so we can say, okay, let's get that architecture fine tuned,
let's get our building costs fined tuned before we know we even have a project we need to
get this done and, then, we can go to the next step of working out those deals and
depending on when we get approved. ACHD could take several months to approve our
engineering plan and that changes when we get it paved, you know, whether it's this fall or
next spring and so all that figures into our plans, but the idea is that it could be -- because
we don't have a -- let's say bulk -- the one or two bulk builders in mind.
Yearsley: Okay.
Schultz: We don't want to do it.
Yearsley: But you're hoping to have one builder build all of them?
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June 4, 2015
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Schultz: One or two. That would be easiest. That would be easiest. It would be
consistent. We would have a variation of architectural on the outside, but, obviously, you
have similar shapes on the inside, so --
Yearsley: Right. Okay. And, then, I think one -- the lot to the east side, we had one
question of what that's -- that's just going to be a homeowners lot; correct?
Schultz: Yeah. Chairman and Commissioners, that -- the way these homes that we
picked from east Boise, they are 60 feet deep by this wide. There is a -- you can't see it,
it's underneath the tree down there in the corner. There is an existing Nampa -Meridian
shed, if you will, that's a pump station. It kind of notches into that lot, so it kind of pinches
us in how far we can slide that house over. It's, obviously, a little inefficient, but that's all
in one lot that would have some trees --
Yearsley: Okay.
Schultz: -- by the builders, just like the other side would. An undersize lot is what it is.
Yearsley: All right. Okay. That's all the questions I have right now. Are there anymore?
I, actually, have two other concerns. The street frontage that we received in the staff
report, I understand is not indicative of what you're anticipating building; is that correct?
Schultz: Chairman and Commissioners, in my application I put in that these are indicative
of the -- the widths in the houses that could fit on this narrow of a lot. As you can see
there is a road in front of these. We don't have a road.
Yearsley: Right.
Schultz: And we are -- so, they had a three -- literally a three foot driveway in the back off
of an alley. But we have a 20 foot off of a sidewalk. So, there is a difference in -- and this
is in Boise -- of how -- how you treat these. So, we want to make them, in the developer's
words, very cute, very nice from Pine. We are going to be subject to their review, but this
might be a back porch instead of a front porch, you know, in terms of a use for that with 15
feet of -- ten foot of private, five foot of common lot landscaping and a six foot fence and,
then, you have got the ditch. So, it's a -- like I said, it's a hundred foot setback from the
road, a 15 foot rear yard, essentially, that faces out, but we want to have nice architecture
that looks like front architecture, which very few, if any, houses do if you look at -- driving
down the main roads, they attempt a little bit, but none of them really try to do any good
architecture on the back. We are going to do some good architecture, similar to what we
have shown here, but in terms of putting all that much rock, we are going to have the
articulation, which is a standard condition, articulation --
Yearsley: Right.
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June 4, 2015
Page 55 of 59
Schultz: -- different materials and so something nice there, but is it going to look exactly
like that, with a sidewalk coming out, no, it's not, but that's the only picture we have.
Sorry.
Yearsley: Okay. And I think there is a lot of people that had expressed it and I actually
will express that same concern, we don't have back lot examples or a front lot. I -- well,
have deep concerns about approving this on to City Council without at least having a
chance to view those -- or at least having a sketch of some similar type or what you're
thinking. I understand you say you have -- you're going to put on strict architectural
controls in place, but I want to see them. Does that make sense?
Schultz: Oh, it absolutely makes sense, Commissioner -- or Chairman, but if you will that
staff's going to be in charge of reviewing those, they are going to look -- they are going to
have a full -- the same articulation, different materials, trim, and that's for the record and I
can show you a little sketch of that, but the problem we had taking pictures in the little
alley they had in Boise, it was so close I couldn't get the -- I couldn't get the actual house
with a picture there. It will look at least as good as what's out there.
Yearsley: I will state it again. I have deep concerns about approving this without even
maybe a -- a rendering of what it could look like on the front and the back.
Schultz: We -- if you would like -- I mean, obviously, Chairman and Commissioners, you
have the choice tonight of approve, deny, or continue. That's where we are at. If you
want to make it a deniable offense you can. If you want to continue us, you can continue
us. We are asking you not.
Yearsley: Okay.
Schultz: We are asking you to either approve or deny. We are asking you not to continue
and leave it up to the Council to approve that rendering, which will be submitted before
then to the Council and leave it up to the Council to make that decision.
Yearsley: Okay.
Schultz: That's what we are asking for.
Yearsley: That's what I want to know.
Schultz: Okay. Thanks.
Yearsley: Thank you.
Parsons: Mr. Chairman?
Yearsley: Oh, sorry. Is there any other questions? Yes.
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June 4, 2015
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Parsons: In listening to the public testimony and in looking at the staff report, there are
some conditions that need to be addressed if you move this thing forward as presented by
the applicant. First of all, DA provision number two -- I'm sorry. DA provision B, bullet
number two, it explicitly requires the front sidewalks of the homes to be extended to the
sidewalk going in front of the homes. That was a design element that staff felt very
adamant about. We wanted these homes to front towards Pine -- the front entries need to
be towards Pine. That -- that's why we required that in the development agreement. It
says right here extended walkways from the front entrances of all homes that will connect
to the adjacent sidewalk across the buildable lots and that's why we had a condition of
approval that says we want sidewalk to go in front of the homes and, then, connecting into
the ten foot pathway in Danbury Fair Subdivision. So, that would have to be either
removed, modified, or left in place. The other condition of approval would be one --
Preliminary Plat Condition 1.2.6, which talks about, again, the sidewalks in front of the
homes, the buildable lots, that requires that pathway connection as stated in the DA and,
then, condition of approval for the preliminary plat for 1.2.7, which requires the applicant to
get permission from the Danbury Fair HOA to allow that five foot walkway across your
common lot. So, a lot of these design concepts that we are talking about tonight are all
predicated on the homes more leaning towards this canal, having a pathway connection,
and so to me that was the critical design element of this project and that's why we wanted
an exhibit this evening so that you could look at and make sure that you're reporting on
something that's going to be buildable and going to be attractive along Pine and that's
really what staffs goal is with some of these provisions. So -- and I heard the one
gentleman testify about having the homes on the same plane and, really, you can have a
home on the same plane, but you got to have some front porches, the homes stepping
back, the popouts like you see in these elevations to really give it a different appearance
from the street and that's really what staff's goal is with the development agreement as we
are doing those elevations. We want to make sure we have that variation for every single
home in that development, so we do get that attractive streetscape.
Yearsley: Thank you. Do you have anything else or --
Schultz: If I could, Chairman and Commissioners.
Yearsley: Absolutely.
Schultz: Thank you. We don't think the sidewalk affects the look of the house in the front.
We make that suggestion to you. I mean we can make it look like this without having the
sidewalk. That doesn't make or break it. We did have -- I did on the record say Nampa -
Meridian will not allow the pathway, so the HOA is a mute point on getting their permission
for that pathway and we -- we believe the architectural control on this. We have shown
some nice -- nice stuff that we will have the articulation like we have shown in the back as
well with the garage and we just ask for you to move on that tonight and specifically to not
require this. I guess we will go forward to Council. Bill asked. I respectfully told him we
are not going to revise the plan, because we don't want to put them in. And Bill is smiling,
because he knows that. I mean that's -- sorry, Bill, but we are not going to put that on the
Meridian Planning & Zoning
June 4, 2015
Page 57 of 59
plan, because we don't want to do it, so -- and especially the fact Nampa -Meridian doesn't
want it and was not part of our -- our access to those homes. So thank you.
Yearsley: Thank you. I guess is there anything else that you guys have? All right. Thank
you.
Schultz: Thanks.
Yearsley: Where are we? All right. Can I get a motion to close the public hearing on RZ
15-008 and PP 15-007?
Wilson: Mr. Chairman?
Yearsley: Commissioner Wilson.
Wilson: I move that we close the public hearing on RZ 15-008 and PP 15-007.
Oliver: Second.
Yearsley: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. All in favor say aye.
Opposed? Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
Yearsley: It's not often that you get two challenging I guess decisions to make in one
night and I guess -- I was thinking about going first, but if there is anybody else would
rather go?
Oliver: Go ahead.
Yearsley: I -- I don't have an issue with the number of lots or the skinny lot design. We
have got -- we have got a big block in our subdivision that does this and it works. It looks
good. It does work well. I am concerned, however, without having renderings of what a
front and the back would look like and personally I do not feel comfortable passing this on
to City Council without that resolution. I also agree with staff that I like the lots being
fronted from Pine and the sidewalk. I think it makes it look nicer. I think it makes Pine
look nicer and it also, as some had expressed, you have a driveway and, then, a sidewalk
right beside it, so you end up with more sidewalk in the front and that's what we are trying
to avoid. Based on those conditions I -- he has expressed -- the applicant has expressed
that we either approve or deny and at this point I cannot in good conscious approve this
development based on what's being presented at this point and I would be interested in
your discussion -- your comments.
Oliver: I will go. First of all, I like the fact that on the west end that you're willing to work
with the neighbors. I appreciate that. Over on the east end I think we got our questions
answered as far as what the problem was there. The fire department is able to get in and
Meridian Planning & Zoning
June 4, 2015
Page 58 of 59
out with the requirements that they need. The trash situation I think was answered
properly. I don't like the fact that we are not going to complete the sidewalks in front and,
then, we got a little bit of -- I wasn't sure exactly what we were saying. Was it houses
facing Pine or were they not facing Pine or -- and I agree with the chairman that we need
to have something that we can see. I just kept looking at it -- I need to see more than just
this and I don't see that there. I'm not sure if approval or denial or a continuance.
Yearsley: Well, he had asked it not to be continued.
Oliver: Okay.
Yearsley: And so he would either request approval or denial based on --
Oliver: Whatever we have in front of us.
Yearsley: Yeah.
Wilson: I would agree with -- I don't think we have enough here to approve to City
Council. I'm not going to repeat anything anyone else said, but I will say I do appreciate
the efforts to put something in here. I know it's been 25 years that this has laid vacant and
-- but, again, renderings prevent us from moving on the approval to City Council.
Yearsley: So, with that I would entertain a motion.
Oliver: Mr. Chairman?
Yearsley: Commissioner Oliver.
Oliver: After considering all staff, applicant, and public testimony, I move to recommend
denial on file numbers RZ 15-008 and PP 15-007 as with presented during the hearing
date of June 4th, 2015, for the following reason? We had no renderings which we can
make a judgment as to whether it look appropriate or not.
Yearsley: And the sidewalk in the front.
Oliver: And the sidewalk as well, yes. Absolutely.
Yearsley: Okay.
Wilson: Second.
Yearsley: I have a motion and a second to deny file number RZ 15-008 and PP 15-007.
All in favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
Meridian Planning & Zoning
June 4, 2015
Page 59 of 59
Yearsley: We have one last motion to make.
Oliver: Mr. Chairman?
Yearsley: Commissioner Oliver.
Oliver: I move we dismiss. Close the hearing.
Yearsley: Adjourn.
Wilson: Second.
Yearsley: I have a motion and a second to adjourn. All in favor say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
Yearsley: We stand adjourned. Thank you.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:39 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS.)
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