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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2014-05-22 Special Joint MeetingJoint Meridian City Council - ACHD Commissioners May 22 2014 A meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 2:00 p.m., Thursday, May 22, 2014, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd. City Council Members Present: Charlie Rountree, Keith Bird, Genesis Milam, David Zaremba and Joe Borton. ACHD Members Present: John S. Franden, Mitchell A. Jaurena, Sara M. Baker, Jim D. Hansen and Rebecca W. Arnold. Item 1: Introduction and opening statements De Weerd: Okay. I'd like to welcome all of you to Meridian City Hall. We appreciate getting together with our agency partners and certainly Ada County Highway District is a vital and important partner to the City of Meridian. So, thank you all for being here. For roll call purposes -- Mr. Chairman, do you need to call roll? Franden: No. No. We are fine. Item 2: Safe Routes to Schools A. Retrofitting Rural Properties with Sidewalks B. Improvements in Existing Subdivisions when Subsequent Development Occurs C. Connecting New Subdivisions to Schools De Weerd: And let it be noted that all Council, except for Councilman Cavener, is here. So, we will just go ahead and get into our agenda. Someone said it was a very ambitious agenda, so if it's ambitious, then, we better launch right into it. Cut to the chase. The first item on the agenda, safe routes to school. Caleb and Bruce Mills will be addressing some of these. I just want to give some context to it. When Mitch and I met a couple months ago, we talked about some of the infrastructure that's lacking in terms -- as the city grows around county subs and as new schools go in and those safe routes to school, so whether -- whether it is retrofitting rural properties that, then, have an urban density that's built surrounding it and kids, then, walk through the older neighborhood that don't have sidewalks, whether it's improvements in areas like our downtown that don't have sidewalks in them or if it's a new subdivision that has several properties between it and the school that exists or a new school that comes online, we think that the safe routes to school topic is very important and who can do what and if there is things that we can be asking for in annexation that's important to identify, so we make sure it's part of our conversation and our consideration and vice -versa and how best that you can bring those to our attention, so we pay attention to it. So, I will turn this over to Caleb first. Joint Meridian City Council - ACHD Commissioners Meeting May 22, 2014 Page 2 of 23 Hood: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Members of the ACHD Commission. Welcome. I am just planning on giving a couple of examples to the Mayor's point there. I have got a couple of examples and I believe Bruce brought one, too, that kind of hit the three things under that agenda Item A or the first action item today to talk about safe routes to schools. So, on your table you have all the handouts, the slides that I will be using today. For those of you that don't have a hard copy I will also be using the monitors. One of our -- a recent example has to do with Kentucky Way south of Victory. There was a couple of subdivisions that came in that will rely on Kentucky Way to be an access that when Kentucky Ridge Estates was constructed it was constructed to rural street standards and so there is no curb, gutter, sidewalk on Kentucky Way, which is a classified collector roadway. So, one of the other things I think that this example shows -- although not on this map -- let me pull up my other -- my other exhibit here. There is a future middle school that's also planned in the nearby area and so if you look at the need for existing residents and children in particular to get to schools, you have substandard infrastructure for them to do so. So, this goes, again, to the point of how do we retrofit existing subdivisions. I'm going to toggle back real quick to the previous one that -- the parcel layout. You have county subdivisions here or outparcels that have never been subdivided and who knows how long these will actually come in to get sidewalk along Stoddard Road, so you're really -- you're really left with a mixed bag. You have got the interface of urban and rural rapidly developing, but you, again, still have some outparcels that -- that may take longer to come into the stadium to get retrofitted with the sidewalk. So, again, what we'd like to talk about today is options for how to create these gaps in that infrastructure, maybe how through development review we can coordinate better to look at or at least we call out off-site improvements that would be necessary to get -- in particularly the children, but not just children -- to schools or other destination places, as well as maybe other options to fix existing gaps in sidewalks. We know and we appreciate the CORE sidewalks program, the community programs project that you all have at the highway district to try to reinvest in these neighborhoods and fill in these gaps, but maybe -- maybe something else should also be looked at as far as funding goes or another dedicated funding source. So, those are kind of -- some of the things and, again, I think this example kind of speaks to that -- again, that interface of city limits. I have one more, but I'm going to let -- let Bruce have a shot and, then, jump back in. Mills: Okay. Thank you, Madam Mayor and Council, Mr. President and Commissioners of ACHD. Bruce Mills, Deputy Director, ACHD, and I wanted to go through a few things -- there are really two things I think we are talking about. Number one, what can we have -- what can we require of the developer when they come along as far as filling in some of these sidewalk gaps. What can we require of the school if a new school comes in an area that -- and the last one really is if neither of them can have requirements, then, we need to look at ACHD's community programs and see if there are ways, because we fill in many sidewalk gaps that otherwise aren't -- we can't fit a requirement to the developer. So, requirements for a new subdivision, just to let you know for off- site -- obviously, within the subdivision itself we require them to put in urban standards, curb, gutter, sidewalk. Off-site improvements -- the way our policy is written, as long as Joint Meridian City Council - ACHD Commissioners Meeting May 22, 2014 Page 3 of 23 they have to either have a minimum of 30 feet of pavement or an urban section of curb, gutter, sidewalk outside of their development basically to the nearest street is the way it's written. So, for instance, on Kentucky Way, the one that was just brought up, they actually have 30 feet of pavement along Kentucky Way, so we were able to work with a developer to get them to put in a detached sidewalk along the east side, so at least to make that connection from the Kentucky Ridge development down to Victory and some of these do wind up being a negotiation during development. If a development does not have 30 feet of pavement in their off-site conditions to the nearest street, then, we can require them to do one of a couple things. One, to bring it up to at least 30 feet of pavement, plus three foot gravel shoulders or to put in 24 feet of pavement with a six foot -- either path or sidewalk -- and we can have them do that up to a maximum of a quarter mile away and I wanted to talk briefly about the schools and what is required of schools, because several years ago the statute was changed and such that now ACHD has to report to your P&Z commission every time a school comes in. We have to look at 21 different factors and -- that are to insure that that road system that we have there today can accommodate the proposed school and I just point out some roads that we look at or the bus plans -- these are germane to what we are talking about today and what kind of local service it will have on our roads and, then, we propose -- require that the school propose mitigation to us. It's fairly new, it's only been in the last several years, but just an example of kind of the old way, we had Sawtooth Middle School, which is on Linder Road, North of Ustick, and when it went in there was some gaps there and so one of the things ACHD did was -- we actually built a paved detached asphalt pathway at a considerable cost along the east side of Linder Road and to this day those -- these parcels still have not developed. So, it's been useful that it's been in place. But moving forward we are going to be looking a lot more at the schools and saying if you're going to put your school in an area that does not have adequate pedestrian movement and you're saying that you're not going to bus within that area, what are you going to do to -- to mitigate that. So, it will be an interesting conversation and, as Caleb said, we probably have one coming up here fairly soon on that. Let's see. I think that's all I have on that particular item. So, again, the two things are looking at what we can do to -- with the development and the school itself and, then, what we can do to fill in gaps through our community programs and I will stand for questions. De Weerd: Any questions for Bruce? Yes, Mitch. Jaurena: Madam Mayor. Bruce, let's go back to the Kentucky Ridge one. You say we can make them make some improvements a quarter mile away, right? Mills: Actually, no, we could not, because the existing Kentucky Way did meet our off- set requirement of a minimum of 30 feet of pavement. Jaurena: That they did -- Mills: Oh, they didn't. It did not. Jaurena: It did not. We could do it a quarter mile away. Joint Meridian City Council -ACHD Commissioners Meeting May 22, 2014 Page 4 of 23 Mills: Or to the nearest street. In this case it would have been out to Victory. Jaurena: Okay. That was my question, because that subdivision -- or that subsequent phase that goes in may be further than a quarter mile away from the area that needs to be improved, but we can take it out to the -- Mills: Correct. They had to improve their frontage along the portion of Victory that they had. Jaurena: Thank you. De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions? Caleb. Hood: Maybe just one more example before -- and I talk about steps moving forward and this is pages three and four in the packet that I will be working from here in this example. Another middle school example. Bruce and I didn't coordinate this, but it may look like it. But in the north Meridian Middle School's -- page four has the -- the further zoomed out version and, then, page three has a -- near the intersection of Heritage Middle School. And the reason that I have these slides in the presentation is just to show, again, some of the examples in the past how we have worked with developers, with each other as agencies. I think this is a good -- good one to show. This is the Amber Creek Subdivision -- was a three phase project. Their first phase was on the north -south arterial, yet with the first phase as the city we required that developer to install all of the perimeter sidewalks on the arterial. So, you get them both on Meridian Road and on McMillan with phase one. So, we are not waiting for that last phase to come in before the sidewalk gets constructed as is -- it's kind of hit and miss right now. Typically a developer is only required to do those improvements abutting the phase that they are developing at the time. So, in this case, again, particularly with the school being so close, we caught this one, it's right across the street and we said, hey, this makes some sense. You're creating a situation here. All of the sidewalks need to go in day one. The other thing just at this intersection I think that's interesting -- Solitude Place just across the street, there is a four or five acre outparcel of Solitude, so everything on the corner, except for this outparcel, is part of Solitude Subdivision. With that project -- and, again, I realize in this scale it's kind of hard to see -- but in front of the frontage of that outparcel in the county still, that developer was required to connect their two ends of the sidewalk infrastructure to not leave a gap in that. Now, it's not in a different location, it's in the existing right of way, whatever was there, probably 25 feet I imagine. But we didn't create a gap in that infrastructure, there is at least a sidewalk. It's going to have to be ripped out and replaced when that property redevelops, but as you can see that -- that forms that -- that site still there and still operating, so who knows how long that will be, so -- but that's not how we do things all the time. It's kind of hit and miss and there is a nexus that has to be there. If it's, you know, a quarter of a mile that seems reasonable. If it's a mile and a half, well, you're probably going to get a developer that will bock and say I -- you know, that doesn't have anything to do with me. That shouldn't be my responsibility. So, just maybe while I'm on this slide, too, Joint Meridian City Council -ACHD Commissioners Meeting May 22, 2014 Page 5 of 23 Paramount is on the other -- on the northwest corner. Another one ACHD stepped up, the developer stepped up on that one, put in sidewalks in front of -- on Meridian Road in front of their -- their parcel, because of Heritage and you had the majority of Paramount that's built out, the kids go there, yet there is no sidewalk in front of that future phase of Paramount. The other side of that coin is Ventana. Ventana -- this is where ACHD stepped up with a future phase of Ventana -- everything you see in red on Ventana is, in fact, that same project. There was a gap in their sidewalk, because unlike Amber Creek we did not require them to construct all of their arterial sidewalks with their phase one. So, ACHD had to come in and connect that sidewalk to the middle school, so if you're walking on the east side of Meridian Road you could -- you could get from -- from A to B there. So, again, just to point out some -- how we have done things maybe -- maybe well together with developers and not so well, I think my point here is there is not a -- we don't have the policies in place that -- for these types of situations. Maybe we can work that way -- a lot of this may just be coordination amongst our development review staff, but, again, funding may be another thing that -- that could get talked about and off-site improvements I think are kind of where the dialogue, hopefully, that some of those things get discussed today. So, Madam Mayor, that's, essentially, what I had on this topic. Mills: And, Madam Mayor, if I can just add one more challenge to it and that's is there enough right of way off site to be able to do these improvements or do we try to squeeze something in the existing right of way as a temporary measure. De Weerd: Well -- and I know along McMillan Road it proved to be quite the challenge to find that safe route for -- for kids trying to get to Heritage or Paramount or Rocky Mountain and that is a difficult area with the -- the irrigation facilities in that area as well. So, that's -- those are some of the challenges that -- I know we have gotten phone calls about and, unfortunately, sometimes the road improvements are years down the road and how can we improve the safety for those kids that -- that need to get to school. So, any comments, thoughts, direction for staff? Yes, Mitch. Jaurena: Madam Mayor. One of my concerns down south of the freeway is that we have a lot of older subdivisions -- '90s developments that were not fully developed and there are other phases out there and those phases now belong to somebody else. They are not the original developer. Kentucky Ridge, for example, phase one, Kentucky Ridge, and, then, subsequent phases around it in a satellite are owned by different people. They have just -- the developers lost them or didn't exercise their options or what have you. But other developers own that, so there is a real reticence on the part of developers to do -- to even partner on an off-site -- on those types of items and we have got to find some way to -- to leverage that -- leverage the work that's being done to improve the roads if they are going to be used -- as they are going to be using for primary access. So, that's a real concern of mine. This kind of development here as we were shown by Paramount, relatively new, relatively homogeneous owners per the development. Now, Mayor, that isn't the case for many of these older subdivisions that are getting satellite development, so -- Joint Meridian City Council - ACHD Commissioners Meeting May 22, 2014 Page 6 of 23 De Weerd: Well, I think that Kentucky Ridge proves to have a whole different set of challenges that they needed a collector road, instead of a collector through the subdivision. A collector road mid mile or -- yeah. So -- but Council didn't agree with me. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: I think that Bruce hit upon it in my mind that these safe routes to schools when they are building down -- the school's building, I think they got to have some responsibility, too, along with ACHD, the developer and the city. You know, if they are going to build a school out there, they need to make sure that they can get the kids -- help get the kids to it. I don't expect them to have to foot the complete bill, but I think they should be involved the same as ACHD or the developer or the city is. So, that's my thought on it is there is the four of us, we need to work out to get the things taken care of, but our main concern is to make sure kids get to school safely and how it's done -- it shouldn't be on the backs of ACHD, it shouldn't be on the backs of the city, it shouldn't be on the backs of the developer, or school by themselves, but a joint session with everybody -- we can work it out. That's my thoughts. I just don't think that the developer should have to burden the whole cost by themselves, especially if it's a quarter mile or half a half or three-quarters of a mile away from the project. De Weerd: Caleb or Bruce, can you tell us if there has been any kind of assessment done in where some of those most serious gaps are in those safe routes to school, if those have been mapped? Mills: Madam Mayor, I believe Ryan or Sabrina probably would be better to discuss that. But I think there has been work done on that. Head: Madam Mayor, we have identified all the gaps in the sidewalk system throughout all of Ada County. The connection to that, the safe routes to schools, we are -- we know where the gaps are, we are working through those. They have been specifically identified in connection with the schools. We do -- just the same as we are looking for requests from the city for -- for improvements. We also take response from the school district to try and identify some of those higher priority issues and get those -- we have worked over the last -- well, since 2008 when the vehicle registration fee was passed to -- pretty heavily to fix a lot of those high priority issues, but we are kind of getting to the point where those are bigger -- bigger projects than just the quick fixes that we are having to take a look at more closely at this time. De Weerd: So, Ryan, can you -- can you tell us there -- I know through COMPASS we fund somewhat through the YMCA the safe routes to schools coordinator and they have been working first with the Boise School District and now they are working with the Meridian School District in those safe routes to school connectors. So, how do you Joint Meridian City Council -ACRD Commissioners Meeting May 22, 2014 Page 7 of 23 interact with that coordinator in the resources that you have available and how are those prioritized? Head: Sure. The projects that are done -- that the YMCA does, they primarily focus on education and on developing routes and encouraging people to walk to school, to use alternatives besides driving. The work we do is the infrastructure piece of that safe routes to school. We -- we do sit on their committee -- their safe routes to school committee. We work with them and as well as with the school districts in helping them develop their requests. It's a partnership and we work closely with them in that way. De Weerd: Is there any way that we can ask for -- if they have done any mapping of -- of some of the highest problem areas and areas that they are focused on that can help with the sidewalk priorities or those connector priorities? Head: I know the YMCA works and develops walk routes and walk route maps. I don't know that they have identified where that -- that connects to the deficiencies. The school districts tend to rely on the principals of the individual schools to identify the problems and I believe that's where they get the majority of their requests from is from the principals. But we can work with the YMCA and see what options and what information they have as part of that. Franden: Madam Mayor? For some clarification. And pretty much everyone knows this. We -- we are somewhat restricted on what we can require developers to do, because we are a single purpose government agency. But you have general powers, which will allow you to do more things with your development agreements and your annexations and I think that might be a way to work both sides. I believe Bruce and Caleb -- the staff should be able to work -- or at least draft some kind of procedure -- because I don't think we really have formalized how we approach this. We have talked about it. We had a couple meetings. But if they could come up with something that would help them understand of where we could provide pressure points and where you could provide pressure points -- and I think it would help the developers and the schools understand more what -- what we are expecting of them or what we could do -- get from them and I believe the school should fund this. This is a school district -- they are a separate taxing district, they should be able to fund their own improvements, especially if they have plumped themselves down in an area where there is not a lot of development, as we have seen happen in the past. So, I think if we get our staffs to sort of develop a protocol -- not really a procedure, but a protocol of what we -- how we expect to interact and what -- where we can expect our staff, ACHD staff, to request things of where we can and then -- our commission and, then, how we can -- what we can expect to come out of your side, because that would help us considerably. You know, we have to walk a fine line, so we don't overextend ourselves. So, I think if they worked on a protocol maybe things would come clearer for what we can expect. De Weerd: Mr. Rountree, I guess I would ask is there -- can we make a request through COMPASS -- and I'm just addressing you, because your chair of COMPASS -- Joint Meridian City Council - ACHD Commissioners Meeting May 22, 2014 Page 8 of 23 to see if the safe routes to school coordinator can put together something on what they might have in terms of mapping and what some of those priority or problem areas are? Rountree: Certainly. De Weerd: Okay. So, we could draft a letter to them. Would ACHD want to be a part of that request ? Franden: Well, Madam Chairman, we certainly could be part of that request. As I was sitting hear listening to this and thinking back many years about when we passed the registration fee last time the increase, half of those dollars were to go to safe routes to schools and the -- the needs are so enormous that they are almost overwhelming. You just do the best that you can on a year to year basis. The question that I have -- and I see our legal counsel is here -- is what statutory restrictions do we have, Mr. Price, as far as -- as requiring developers to do off site -- off site improvements as far as sidewalks are concerned in this Kentucky Ridge -- that's a good example and these -- these other subdivisions that have been in place for many years. Price: Thank you, Council and Commissioners. My name is Steve Price, I'm general counsel for the highway district. First I'd just like to remind some of you about the Local Planning Act provision in the code as it relates to schools and the planning of these schools and making sure through that process that schools are adequately planning to provide for transportation and travel means, including safe routes to schools and I believe that that gets the land use agencies in concert with the highway district a fair amount of authority for improving the sites of any future schools. To answer your question, President Franden, unfortunately, off-site exactions -- and that's, basically, what we are talking about legally is exaction -- require the developer to make improvements off of his property. The highway district is -- I think your legal counsel would agree that it's very difficult, we all have certain limitations with the policy to be able to do that. We can't make the developer of Jacksons, for instance, because he's going to increase traffic to improve three blocks away. There has to be a rough nexus between the impact of development and the improvement that is required to mitigated it. And so in most cases the improvements that we have the authority under the constitutional analysis is really just for the property itself. There are minor exceptions to that, but it's on a case-by-case basis. Kentucky Ridge was -- that was a negotiated deal with the developer to what we could require them to do for the sidewalk in exchange that he would put in the location that not only we preferred, but also the neighborhood. Franden: Okay. Thank you. De Weerd: Mr. Nary? Rountree: He's hiding. De Weerd: Oh. Do you have anything you wanted to add? Joint Meridian City Council -ACHD Commissioners Meeting May 22, 2014 Page 9 of 23 Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Commissioners, no, I think Mr. Price hit it on the head. I mean I think we -- in the development process -- it always is much easier at the front end of annexation developments for us to be able to provide some of those additions, but when you have an older subdivision area or an older developed area that comes into the city, like -- like this recent one, it is more of a negotiation to be able to try to get some of those additions and developers to their credit in this particular case have been at least responsive to some degree in providing some of it, but are kind of hamstrung by case law as to how much we can -- we can really acquire -- or require before we can do that. Franden: So, Madam Mayor, just maybe a conclusion of these comments. We will do everything that we possibly can to help and assist and it always comes down to the bottom line, how much money is available on a yearly basis. We wish there was a great deal more. We -- when I first started on the highway district commission I believe there was some place in the area -- and Rebecca might even remember -- someplace around 600,000 dollars or a million that we were putting into safe routes to school. Arnold: It wasn't much. Franden: It wasn't much. Right. And I believe now we are in the five million dollar range and we would like to do more. But where ever we can help we will. Bird: Madam Chair? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: I think that Steve hit upon it. In the future we need to make sure -- and that's what I was addressing before was we need to make sure that the school district has got some responsibility, too, when they build -- go out and decide to build a school. Now it's what do we do with the existing ones and how do we do that and it's pretty hard to require some developer that's a mile away to get a safe route to a school that's been in there for 20 years or so to that place. I think those have to be done on a one-on-one basis, whatever is coming up. But in the future if we -- if the -- if our two departments will make sure that we include the school district when they want to build new schools, that they are involved in getting kids there safely, too, I think we will help ourselves and help our citizens. De Weerd: Just a quick question to Mr. Chairman. You know, do you put together a safe routes to school list -- project list annually, so -- and do you have a rating criteria that -- that identifies where those are all going? Franden: Madam Chairman, the answer is yes. On the rating I don't know that specifically. What we -- what we do, if I'm not mistaken, is we take the recommendations that comes from the school districts and where they, then, identified and request that those safe routes go in and, then, we do -- do the best we can to address those. I -- to comment a little bit on Council Person Bird's comments, we have Joint Meridian City Council -ACHD Commissioners Meeting May 22, 2014 Page 10 of 23 -- we have worked with the school districts and I believe the city may have been involved in those conversations in the past as well and have not gone very far with it and it -- again, it comes down to the schools feel that it's not that they don't want to, but it's they are scraping for every dollar that they can to build those schools and to build the building that they need, so they -- they are not reticent to put in the sidewalks, because they see that as an added expense. It's not that they don't want to, but that they can't afford to do that when they are going out with their bonds. De Weerd: Well, maybe that's another thing that we as two planning entities do is -- is send a representative to the bond committee. I know that Meridian School District is looking at a bond for August and knowing what those projects are and being on hand to specifically request that they figure in the cost of safety sidewalk and which will help reduce the cost of safety -- safety busing and make that a part of the request that's been -- that's goes out in the bond. Franden: That's a good idea Bird: Good idea. De Weerd: So -- Franden: Just as an antidotal piece of information we have had some experience as a -- that when we put in safe routes to schools from the -- from the subdivisions to the school that, then, it can put you in a position where the -- where the school district is not required anymore to bus those kids, because it changes things and I can think of some experiences in the Eagle area, maybe in Meridian, where once that occurs, then, parents didn't want the kids to walk, because they didn't feel, even -- it's a different day than when Keith and I were kids and so they end up driving them to school. Item 3: Pro -Active Roadway and Intersection Improvement Options Before Development Occurs De Weerd: I know. Okay. Anything further on this topic? Okay. Item No. 3 is -- is more born from the growth pressures in south Meridian. We have had some real proactive approaches that has been a strong collaborative effort through Ada County Highway District and the City of Meridian and the development community in doing projects ahead of schedule and being reimbursed through impact fee and I know that Caleb has several examples that they can site that we hope maybe can create some discussion on what's happening in south Meridian and maybe reconvening some key stakeholders to look at what we can be doing down there. So, I will turn this over to Caleb. Hood: Madam Mayor, thank you. This isn't -- this is really kind of an ACHD program -- well, it is. Not kind of. It is an ACHD program, the developer cooperative program, but I did speak with Gary Inselman a little bit yesterday. If I say something that's out of line Bruce is close enough he will slap me and correct me, but one of the most common Joint Meridian City Council -ACHD Commissioners Meeting May 22, 2014 Page 11 of 23 tools that developers use is to go to ACHD and enter into a developer cooperative agreement. Gary said yesterday that some 20 projects in Meridian have used this tool to rebuild intersections or widen roadways ahead of the CIP or five year work plan. So, it's been pretty successful and he said Meridian, you know, is the poster child for this, because more of them happen in Meridian than any other community. The Mayor just pointed out essentially what a developer cooperative project is. A developer comes to ACHD and they say I want to improve this ahead of schedule and they get paid back some portion of that through -- through impact fees that would otherwise be due when actual construction -- vertical construction occurs on that property. So, that, again, is -- is a pretty popular tool. It usually takes a pretty savvy, large developer, a big developer usually with a large -- larger land holding that has some pockets, again, where they front the money to do -- to do these improvements ahead of time. So, we have been lucky where we have had some of those larger developers, particularly in north Meridian, but not exclusively north Meridian. The Overland Road extension between Ten Mile and Linder was done with a developer cooperative project. There has been some sections of Eagle Road as well that were improved with developer cooperatives. But north Meridian in particular there were several intersections on McMillan, Eagle, Ustick that were done using this tool. South Meridian is a little bit different. As pointed out before there are some county subdivisions that are down there that kind of are in the middle of these sections and don't allow those land holdings to be contiguous and you don't get intersections maybe where a developer owns three or four corners to rebuild the intersection, because it is pretty critical -- obviously you need the right of way to rebuild it and having a private landowner negotiate that with their neighbor doesn't always go so well versus if it's an ACHD project you have right of way agents and such that can negotiate. So -- so that one is one of the tools that's in the toolbox now that I think we can explore for south Meridian. In fact, it's there now and we can and do occasionally send from our pre -app meeting send them to ACHD to talk to them about improvements, they look at the -- the five year work plan or the CIP and they say I can't wait 15 years for that roadway to be improved, I need it to be done sooner. Well, go talk to -- go talk to Gary about that, maybe you can work out a deal and improve it ahead of -- ahead of the program. So, that's one. The other one that I just wanted to highlight is extraordinary impact fee areas -- overlay areas. There is only one to my knowledge in Meridian and that's in the Magic View -Eagle Road -1-84 area. Primarily I think the improvements that were done ahead of time with that was the intersection at St. Luke's Drive and maybe some ancillary things kind by the -- the bank, credit union, Chevron, McDonald's, kind of in that area. So, what happened with that is ACHD will build that infrastructure and, then, essentially, they get paid back. There is an impact fee, a regular impact fee that commercial developers pay and, then, they pay an extraordinary impact fee for that improvement that wasn't planned for originally, a signal that wasn't necessarily needed, it was this development need and so it was put in and, again, ACHD kind of gets reimbursed as properties within that geographical boundary are developed. So, that's another tool for potentially south Meridian. We could draw a boundary in south Meridian and say, you know, do infrastructure improvements ahead of development. Historically, you know, we wait until roadways are E or failing before you add, you know, additional lanes or signalize the intersection. So, this may be a way to get some of the infrastructure improvements in ahead of development is to rebuild Joint Meridian City Council - ACHD Commissioners Meeting May 22, 2014 Page 12 of 23 them and, then, have the developers pay an extraordinary impact fee. The one thing with that is -- one project, anyways, that I wanted to mention is the Overland extension. That's a project that's not in ACHD's CIP, so this would have to be -- again, extraordinary is kind of in the name; right? So, it has to be an impact that is not really anticipated or planned for. So, probably not section line roadways. But you could do the collector network. You could do kind of this -- a different sub area network that may be necessary and establish this extraordinary impact fee overlay area. The Fields District is another one. South Meridian and the Fields District are the two areas we have had conversations about. South Meridian in particular, some concerns about how rapidly we going down there, but northwest Meridian is -- is in a real similar boat. We see rapid development up there. But a lot of the infrastructure is in place, but not all. With State Highway 16 being connected, Black Cat, you know, Ten Mile, McDermott even, we will see some of the -- and, then, again, I don't want to sound like a broken record, but additional funding sources, you know, is legislation in order to -- to look at additional capital improvements. I just heard yesterday at the work session at ACHD seeing the trends over the next ten, 12, 15 years, more and more maintenance, which is appropriate, but you aren't going to have as many dollars to do, you know, capacity improvements and so, you know, respect to what you do with the dollars, but maybe it's time to look at another funding source. So, Madam Mayor, that's -- that's kind of my -- my lead in, my -- the background information that I had prepared today for this topic. But I will stand for any questions. De Weerd: Mr. Chairman. Franden: Madam Mayor. And stop me, Mr. Price, if I -- if I make a mistake here, because I could easily, but these extraordinary impact fees, I think a little bit of clarification here. If I'm not mistaken, first of all, the developer has got to go along with that when it happens. We just can't impose that on them. The other thing about them is that we, as a highway district -- and Hidden Springs is a classic example where it really worked. In fact, that's the -- the one where it's worked the best and did is that Cartwright Road was improved, but how that worked is that the extraordinary impact fees were collected from Hidden Springs over time -- over I'm going to guess ten years and, then, when Hidden Springs wanted to have Cartwright Road really improved they paid for that. They actually took those dollars and not dollars and -- and not the dollars they paid in impact fees, but their own dollars and improved Cartwright Road and, then, we gave them -- we reimbursed them back with what -- what we had collected over time. Now, is that totally wrong or -- Price: You did it perfect and it's like a lawyer always has to put it in his own words, but the big difference is with a local improvement district where we normally would impact the area, that the fundamental part of that is that you have to have funding for the improvements -- those are instruments to repay that. So, the local improvement district you get a bond, but, then, you assess the properties and, then, over time gets back the bond. The extraordinary impact fee is very similar. We execute a development agreement and I think the one up by St. Luke's -- this was more -- and the one at Dry Creek I think is -- the gross impact did that, but they entered in -- they made those Joint Meridian City Council -ACHD Commissioners Meeting May 22, 2014 Page 13 of 23 improvements out of pocket and we -- through time we collect those fees and, then, we pay them back and those are really the developer's tool and sometime the local government's tool to get those improvements done in advance and get paid back over time. Mills: And if I could just add one thing and that's just to reemphasize the extraordinary impact fees cannot be used for any projects within our CIP. So, essentially, in south Meridian almost every section line road is in the CIP, so we could not collect extraordinary impact fees on top of the impact fees we are already collecting for those future improvements. De Weerd: Which is probably another argument to getting the development community together to talk about the growth pressures in those areas and -- and that is what we did up in northern -- north Meridian is collectively between the city, ACHD, and the development community, had those conversations that led to a developer driven initiative that really brought those needed improvements ahead of growth and we are going to see it, because the extension of Highway 16 and some of the activities in north Meridian, but -- and south Meridian as well, you see the -- the developments that are being proposed and you know where those road improvements are on your capital improvement plan. They are -- they are not in that next five years. So, I guess maybe my question is is it time to convene a group of those that are meeting with staff about the possibility of developing in that area to get them together and see collectively how they would like to go about doing it if -- they will have to market their properties as well and certainly as north Meridian showed, because those improvements are in, that helped with the marketing of those lots as well. Jaurena: Madam Mayor? We have one more player that we got to throw probably into that mix. We have got Kuna. And as you know they have got their plant that's on Ten Mile, the northern boundary of their zone. They put -- exert a lot of pressure on Ten Mile Road. Ninety-nine percent of the traffic I would say or -- is Kuna bound on Ten Mile south of 84. 1 believe we need to probably try to throw them in the mix, too, because they are going to exert a lot of pressure on it and if we start talking to the developers like this and start talking this small area, they are just going to step over the area of impact and go and start doing their things down there, without -- without participating in this. So, I think that we include Kuna into the mix and start trying to collaborative work between the two cities and us and the developers, we could come up with a -- a more generalized plan that would probably do just what you're talking about. De Weerd: Any other comment? I think three of us are dominating this discussion. This entire meeting. Okay. Never had my Council so quiet. Now I know what to do to make them shut up. Rountree: I'm taking good notes. Item 4: Center Median and Raised Curbing Policies, Warrants and Requirements Joint Meridian City Council - ACHD Commissioners Meeting May 22, 2014 Page 14 of 23 De Weerd: Need to have a meeting with you guys. Sorry. Nothing? Okay. Item No. 4. Certainly I think as the ACHD commission you have seen the same groups that first came in front of us questioning why curbing was -- was installed in the intersections and when they were warranted and some of the timing considerations and, then, we -- we thought it might be helpful to know what is -- what is the criteria and where those start to show up and how that communication is done, those kind of things. So, I have Caleb and -- no. I have Bruce Mills down for this one. Mills: Thank you, Madam President. This is ACHD's most popular program next to downtown Boise bike lanes. So, I'm really happy to be here to talk about medians today. De Weerd: Anything to make you happy, Bruce. Mills: Thank you. First of all, what are medians for and, basically, they are placed in high accident areas or potential high accident areas and they are, obviously, to prevent dangerous traffic movements -- typically turning, obviously, and something else that is gained from that also is it can reduce some delay and increase a little bit of the capacity on the quarter. But how do we determine them? Is there a black book that says this is exactly what you do here and here and -- no, it really is a lot of case-by-case looking at -- at each situation and I will go through some of the rule of thumbs that we use. The real high priority ones we look at things in the major vicinity of our T on collector street intersections. Kind of the functional area of an intersection, which really means the area where there are additional lanes for turn lanes, it's the area where there is tapering to adjust for those turn lanes and where there -- during really heavy times there is cars that are backed up and stacked quite a ways. We also look away from those busy intersections where we have certain really high capacity commercial developments, the larger ones, that they may be away from an intersection, but there is such a heavy movement in and out of those commercial driveways we look at them in that case. The last one being where there is just not good sight distance due to a bend in the road or something to where it's not good to be able to put full access driveways in those locations. So, the most dangerous movements at intersections -- well, first of all, the highest amount of accidents to happen in intersections are actually rear end accidents. People just not paying attention to somebody in front of them and rear ending them. But the most severe accidents -- because those are usually lower speeds -- are left out accidents and I have got an example to show on that. Second most severe accidents are left -in where somebody is turning into a development and, of course, the reason for medians is it removes those left -in and left -out turning movements. Here is one that was mentioned, so I thought I would bring it up. This is at Franklin and Linder. Franklin Road, east -west here, Linder to the north -south. When we did this project just a year ago -- and this is the Jacksons here on the corner and here is a Subway station over here -- or Subway store. We put in medians from the intersection back about to here and we allowed certain openings in those medians as it's indicated here and labeled the far driveway to the west is a full access driveway. It is not fully developed yet, so we -- we have it -- people are using it, crossing the gravel to get into these businesses, but it's not a formal access until this property here on the west develops. We allowed a right -in, Joint Meridian City Council -ACHD Commissioners Meeting May 22, 2014 Page 15 of 23 right -out and left -in driveway at this location and there is cross -access between these parcels, which is what we are always hoping we can get. So, people coming from the east to the west, if they want to turn left they can turn left into here and go through this development to get to for instance the Jacksons on the corner. So, that's right -in, right - out, and left -in. This one here -- we have right -in and right -out. And down here on Linder Road they have a full access. Looking at this one here, this right -in and right -out at the moment, and with a full median -- raised median across it. We had a -- you can almost change the -- this to say that this was Fairview and this was Maple Grove. ACHD was involved in a lawsuit several years ago where -- and this is what happens in these busy intersections. We had cars stacked up to the intersection and the guy that was stacked up right before the driveway to try to be nice and polite, was trying to tell the guy trying to come on out of the gas station, hey, go ahead, go ahead, I will stop and let you through. Well, as he came out of the driveway a motorcycle was coming in the other lane and he hit him and was severely injured. So, the reason for medians -- especially in the neighborhood of really close intersections -- is to eliminate those types of severe accidents that can occur there. If we tried to -- for instance in this case even put a left -in at this location, it actually wouldn't work from a standpoint of being so close to the intersection, because you have to be able to create a taper and a storage lane to get them out of the through lane heading west and to do that and put a taper on it, it would come back so far that you would wind up only allowing two cars to be able to actually stack and turn left to make the movement northbound. So, that was the use of the medians here at -- at this Franklin and Linder intersection. Another one that was mentioned was the Walmart over at Stoddard and Overland Road and here is the Walmart. The Lowe's is over here. There is a full signal in at this location and we allowed a right -in, right -out movement here on Overland Road, which is another way to get into Walmart when you're heading from the west to the east. Our policy on principal arterial roads, like Overland, like Franklin, is that we do not allow full access points, except at signalized intersections. So, this meets our policy. When Walmart came in, actually, to -- with their development application they requested a right -in, right -out at this location and they used the little signal here at this location. I understand that there have been a few people that have complained about the heavy use of the driveway on Stoddard, feeling that people that miss this driveway with the signal, if they were going to Walmart, they get to here and say, oh, rats, I missed it, so they come down here, they turn left, go down south on Stoddard and come into this driveway here. I talked to the manager of the Walmart and he said that does happen, but it's very infrequent. The regular customers, after they do it the first time, will recognize that they need to go in at the signal at Lowe's. There actually is the -- there is some people that always use this driveway here. The people that come up from Stoddard -- it's also the loading dock and the truck access for all their deliveries and at the south end of the building there is their prescription drug counter, so -- or drive -up prescription drug. So, it's going to always get some traffic here, but we feel this one is working pretty well. Actually, when we put the medians in Wahooz owner came to us and said, hey, could I get a left -in movement here and we said, well, yeah, we just put those medians in. If you want to pay for us to alter the medians there we would allow a left -in in this location and so we proceeded to do that with him and when I was talking to the Walmart store owner I mentioned that we had done that for them and that it's -- there is a possibility that we could do a left -in Joint Meridian City Council - ACHD Commissioners Meeting May 22, 2014 Page 16 of 23 here, but they did not have an interest in it and did not feel that there was really a need for it, given the signal that we have at -- at the Lowe's. So, that's that particular situation. The third one involves the project we are designing right now on Franklin Road between Black Cat and Ten Mile and this is kind of a picture of the -- the future plan for a roadway network up in this area. This is -- this red line is Franklin Road. Black Cat here. And Ten Mile, then, on this end. So, you see there is going to be a limited network out there. There is actually a subdivision that's been approved -- I don't know if the final name was Barrera -- this is a Corey Barton development. But when we were working on this -- and, of course, we had the conversation with the church -- quite a few, obviously. We also looked at this and realized that we have a blank slate that we are working with with this piece of Franklin Road, this mile. The Corey Barton development in the red here actually is a half mile long and it is only going to have two driveways out onto Franklin Road. One in this location here where a future signal will go and over here across from Umbria, again, where a future signal will go. So, realizing we have a blank slate, that we can require as these properties develop on the north side, as well as the other two gaps, to have very limited access and a robust parallel collector network, we decided to drop the need for the full medians along this section -- this mile of road. There still will be a short median going in, because there is a couple of right -in, right -out driveways -- one or two on the church property. So, in the vicinity of the intersection where we really like to have medians, we are still going to put short medians there, but, the -- and the same, then, we will probably do down here in the Black Cat end. But in the middle it wouldn't make a lot of sense to put medians in when there is no driveways in the future that are going to be there. So, I guess, again, just to summarize, they are put in to eliminate the most severe accidents. We don't have an exact formula. A lot of it is case by case, because things are so different in different locations, but -- hopefully that will help and I will stand for questions. De Weerd: Thank you, Bruce. Any questions? I guess on the Walmart, if -- people still don't understand that the U-turn things and when U-turns are allowed. Is it when it's signed? When it's not signed? And is it really tight. Actually, I left Wahooz the other day and someone told me I could do a U-turn there and it's tight. It's hard to do a U-turn right there if you're going west on Overland and you want to go east, so you do the U- turn at Stoddard. It's tight. Mills: Madam President, you're correct. Usually to make a U-turn movement it requires that there be three lanes on the -- in this case if there were three eastbound lanes there that would give you enough room. When you only have a five lane road and you only are turning from the center lane across two lanes, you might do it with a small car, but not with anything else. So, usually when we are trying to encourage U-turns at intersections we are trying to get that extra width that we have at those locations for that. So, you're right it's a -- it's a difficult movement there and it's why we don't have it signed for U-turns there. De Weerd: Okay. Borton: Madam Mayor? Joint Meridian City Council -ACHD Commissioners Meeting May 22, 2014 Page 17 of 23 De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Borton. Borton: Bruce, what's the standard practice on the implantation of medians in relation to traffic count where there might be an area where they could be warranted if the traffic counts reach a certain level and might be incorporated in a project, but while new areas -- new areas and businesses are trying to get developed, especially off the vacant properties are being sold, medians might be planned to not be put in until some future date, which may be way down the road. We hear several concerns where they are installed at a time and, of course, the developer is trying to get his projects going and limited access and all these concerns with businesses. Is there a practice where a median might be required, but ACHD waives it until X count is hit? Mills: One of the tools -- yes. And some of the things we look at are have there been accidents there in that location or nearby. Are there enough gaps in the traffic that the traffic volumes you mentioned, if -- if they are not so heavy that there are adequate times for people to be able to turn across traffic, we can still allow them at that point. Another tool we have used is allowing left -in movements for some period of time and, then, in the future that left -in movement may be eliminated. An example I can think of is the Maverick station that went in at the southeast corner of Franklin and Cloverdale. We have allowed a left -in movement for that. At some point in the future we will have enough -- we will have some -- so much traffic growth and the need for dual left turn lanes for westbound traffic that we will probably have to eliminate that left -in movement, but we allowed it and Maverick was happy, because it was a way to -- as they say for a new business you want to get people used to coming to your business first and foremost. De Weerd: Okay. Council, I can't remember where we had this discussion, whether it was the fire department -- I know they have real challenges with the pitch of the curbing that goes in and trying to maneuver in those areas to respond on an emergency basis. Caleb, do you know was -- Hood: Madam Mayor, I do remember Chief Niemeyer chiming in when this -- when Jacksons approached the Mayor and Council to talk about their concerns with the raised curbings for this -- this project and I think that the main point that they were making -- well, there is two. One it was a gas station and so inherently there is more dangers on this intersection than anywhere else. They need to be able to respond quickly and getting in the full access off of Linder is not ideal for them with the radiuses and stuff, so they really need efficient access into this site again, because they are driving bigger vehicles. It's not what we reviewed for them in the vertical raised curbs and get in there, so I think their -- their request, their concern was that they weren't consulted, basically, that, hey, you know, we understand this need, but we need to be at the table and we need to let dispatch know that, okay, hey, get ready, these are going in. When we go to this site now we need to go the other way, because it's going to be restricted -- similarly to the way Jacksons I think felt that the communication was lacking. I think that was just some of the -- they kind of came up overnight at least that's Joint Meridian City Council - ACHD Commissioners Meeting May 22, 2014 Page 18 of 23 kind of their message to -- to use was it wasn't warranted, we didn't know these were coming in, and all of a sudden they are in the middle of the roadway. So, I think that's some of the messages I heard from both our emergency responders was we -- generally we can live with these, we just need to be able to coordinate that and you need to understand some of our needs and see if maybe it can be designed better, so we can get in there. And, then, with adjacent businesses -- coordinating with them to let them know, hey, you know, you have -- you're times up, we are restricting this now, you know, what are your initial concerns with that and, then, again, just the dialogue, not that you're going to convince them that it's great for their business or whatever, but just having that conversation with them I think was the other request that I heard. Mills: And, Madam Mayor, if I could just add to that one comment. This -- this particular roadway went through a very robust design period with quite a few of our public information meetings, so it wasn't a secret that this meeting was going in, it was actually planned for quite some time before it went in. However, that being said, certainly we want to work with -- especially the emergency service providers, so if for instance the left -in that we have here at this Jacksons is not adequate -- if it's too tight for a fire truck, perhaps we can go through and adjust it. So, we are certainly willing to talk to the fire department and see what we can do to make sure that when these go in that they have -- they are not restrictive for your vehicles. Jaurena: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes. Jaurena: I would like to add to something that Bruce brought up and Caleb both. I have talked with a lot of the paramedics. We heard an Ada County chief paramedic speak about Fairview and how he didn't like the center divides going in. But I have had an opportunity to check with them. They bear some responsibility themselves to participate in these things. Again, none of this stuff we have done was done in a vacuum. It was done with plenty of notice and they need to send people to it to make their comments also. They are notified. They know these things are going on. So, if they become more actively involved, open their focus a little bit, they can make impact. Well, I mean we are very concerned about what our emergency responders and our first responders think, so I find it somewhat disingenuous when they say, well, it causes us a great inconvenience. Yeah. We are doing it to save lives, basically, and, you know, well, you know, maybe you wouldn't have to respond quite as often with your ambulances if we had less accidents. So, it's a little disingenuous at times. Nobody likes to be inconvenienced and as we do well know people don't like change. But their more active participation in the planning process on their part would help us probably ameliorate some of those concerns that they have. So, that's just something that I would like to share with the group. I find it a little bit sometime disingenuous on their part when they say, well, it's a surprise. Well, not really. Milam: Madam Mayor? Joint Meridian City Council - ACHD Commissioners Meeting May 22, 2014 Page 19 of 23 De Weerd: Yes. Milam: I would like to know what -- what exactly has been the reduction in serious accidents in a situation where you put a median in, because if most of the accidents are rear end, they weren't paying attention, a median is not going to fix stupidity and ignorance, so -- but it is crucial to the business, it's not just inconvenient, it's -- it's sometimes detrimental, so I just -- I need to see if there is proof that that many lifesaving accidents have been reduced in order to really feel comfortable in putting them in an area that is not what I would consider necessary and to add to that, some of the new U-turn areas that -- U-turn lanes in the left turn lanes have almost caused me several accidents, many more times than ever trying to make a left in or out into the middle lane. Franden: I'm going to take a shot at that. My number might be wrong, but Eagle Road is -- is the great experiment and I think that the reduction in accidents after the medians were put in are -- it's in the area of 30 percent. It was very very large. De Weerd: I think it was even greater than that -- Franden: Could have been. De Weerd: -- between Franklin Road and 1-84 there in front of the hospital. That was a high emergent -- or a high accident rate area and it improved it -- it went from high numbers to just a couple. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes. Bird: In that area, though, you also want to remember at that same time when you put the medians in, you also put another northbound lane in, too, that helps a lot. Jaurena: Madam Mayor? Another thing to remember is it's just not percentages, but it's types of accidents. A rear -end accident is not near as bad as a T-bone accident, but the incidents of T-bones and head -ons are much much higher and you get T-boned on left -ins, left -outs -- that's kind of a life-threatening accidents than rear end. Item 5: ACHD's Strategic Plan — Mayor and Council values De Weerd: Okay. Item No. 5 is ACHD's strategic plan and I understand Sabrina is taking that. Anderson: There is nothing on here about the medians. I'm Sabrina Anderson, I'm the planning manger, Ada County Highway District. Ada County Highway District is taking on a strategic planning process. It will be about an 18 month process. It's leading into Joint Meridian City Council - ACHD Commissioners Meeting May 22, 2014 Page 20 of 23 one of the purposes of the strategic plan is the capital improvement plan. But, again, it's a little bit different than the capital improvement plan. The capital improvement plan is one of our strategic plan -- (Transcription and audio difficulties. Ms. Anderson gave a synopsis of strategic plan.) Jaurena: I had one. It helped me to take the top page there where it's A through E and just sort of put what your pressing projects are or what projects have come out in front of you here and, then, if you go through the next page, you go, oh, yeah, that would fit into here and I gave it B or C, so -- and just something to help me clarify how I did this. It doesn't take long. Rountree: Madam Mayor, question for Sabrina. I have not seen this list in any detail. Define for me the values, so I know what -- Anderson: Sure. The way we define these values are really things that are guiding principles, things that are important to the district and to the public that they represent. We took a look at what are things that have been funded in the past, what are things that have been important. We also took a look at the vision and the mission and the priorities that the district already had and what are ways that we came from that, unless there is something that is very similar in this, but we wanted to be able to take that and, then, break it apart from theirs. Does that help? Zaremba: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba. Zaremba: Just a comment that I would make -- and this was a subject that I was hoping we could get to and spend a little bit of time on. I appreciate very much what ACHD is doing in putting together this strategic plant and the goals that you intend to come out of it. From my own personal local history of having been on Meridian's transportation committee for some time and several years ago being on ACHD's capital investment citizens advisory committee, I'm aware of the effort that goes into prioritization both within ACHD and their partnership with the cities, the effort to out reach to us and have things prioritized. But the consistent message is we can't do all of the things that need to be done and we seem to -- even though ACHD has done a marvelous job of keeping moving on the CIP and keeping moving on the five year work plan, when we as a city take a look at it and we say, okay, ACHD is saying not everything can be a first priority, when, in fact, the top things on the list should have been done six years ago and the next ten things after that are what we should be talking about now and, then, the next ten after that are possibly things that we should be talking about for the future and we are looking at this list and saying some of these aren't going to be funded for 40 years, when, in fact, by the time we get to ten years from now this entire list ought to be complete and -- and I think what I have hoped for all along -- and I would like to offer my emotional support and the city support -- similar to the effort that was made to increase the registration fees, the educational portion that went along with that, the public Joint Meridian City Council - ACHD Commissioners Meeting May 22, 2014 Page 21 of 23 understood that the affect and the impact of underfunding transportation and as both ITD and ACHD in my mind keep getting farther and farther behind and keep having our priority list saying, okay, we can only do the top three priorities, in this strategic plan I would hope that there is some discussion and some thrust to -- not just how do we split up the current pie among the projects that are all high priority projects, but how do we increase the size of the pie and I know that means going to the voters and saying, you know, is transportation serious enough for you that ACHD should raise -- raise their rates and I don't know if ACHD has the same rules the city does, we can increase our levy rate .003 or something like that percent without putting it to a vote and if we want to raise the money we have the ability to take a plan to the voters and I just -- I would like to see something in ACHD's strategic plan that addresses increasing the pie and getting more funding, because this isn't just Meridian, it's Boise and Eagle and -- you know, we as cities shouldn't be fighting against each other in coming to ACHD and saying, okay, too much money is going to one or the other jurisdictions, not enough is coming to us and particularly for Meridian. We appreciate the attention that we have been getting and all the work that's been going on here, engineeringly I think it's been justified to make most of the work in Meridian, because this is where much of the growth has been. But I guess my point is even as careful as we are about setting the priorities and the strategic plans for working within the concurrent budget, I would like to see ACHD working on increasing the budget and I would offer that me in particular and I think Meridian in general would be very happy to stand up next to you and say, yes, this needs to be done and help educate our citizens that you would not be standing out there by yourselves if you took this move and I feel reasonably comfortable, because the results of the registration increase, that that education can be made with the citizens. My comment is I'd like to see that be part of the strategic plan. De Weerd: Commissioner Arnold? Arnold: Are you advocating for property tax increases or some alternative source of funding? Zaremba: Well, that would need to be a discussion, but I'm assuming that the biggest part of your income is property taxes. Arnold: And my view on property taxes is that's not the appropriate source for increasing funding. We are overburdening our taxpayers now on property taxes, so that's not an appropriate source. I agree we need a larger pie, but I think we need to be looking more at user based types of revenue sources and not putting everything on the back of property owners. Zaremba: Well -- and I absolutely agree, there are better sources and I tend to not think of gasoline taxes as a -- there was a time when that was a good choice. It's no longer as fruitful of a choice as it used to be. But there are a number of things that could be put on a table and discussions about which ones would be the best choice and would be the most palatable to an educated public. I'm open to all those discussions. I'm just saying you guys would not be out there hanging by yourselves if you brought this up. Joint Meridian City Council -ACHD Commissioners Meeting May 22, 2014 Page 22 of 23 De Weerd: Any other comments? Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: This isn't on the same subject, but I do have a question for ACHD. When did your policy change on the barricades for parades and stuff? You have always -- every parade we have had for 49 years that I know of when we needed barricades and stuff ACHD has furnished them and now all of a sudden we are told that you guys don't do that anymore and don't have the barricades and stuff and I just wondered -- I mean we were told I think -- I found out about it a week ago Tuesday, so -- have you changed the policy on -- on the barricades and -- what's going on? We were told that there was no -- we could not -- the parade -- the parade for -- the Dairyland parade. Wong: Let me be real clear on that. Bruce Wong for ACHD. This afternoon I did let the commission know -- (Transcription and audio difficulties. Mr. Wong gave an explanation.) Bird: Okay. This is very fair, Bruce. I -- I agree on that part and we don't know -- we have changed the -- we have changed the parade route. We have had to change that. So, we -- this first year around we don't know, but what I want to -- what I want to tell you is this group that puts this on is not a nonprofit that don't pay any ACHD taxes, we pay -- we pay a 35,000 a year property tax bill, which you get your percent and if you need to charge next year, that's something else, we will look into it. But when we get hit a week before -- you know, a month before the parade that we are going have to come up with this -- De Weerd: Who is they? Bird: I'm talking about the Dairy Show Board. I'm representing the Dairy Show Board right now. Okay. This is the first week we heard of it. We were told -- we have been told that you were not. (Transcription and audio difficulties. Mr. Wong gave an explanation.) Bird: And that's all we ask. Next year we can plan. (Transcription and audio difficulties. Mr. Wong gave an explanation.) Bird: And the city has given us a fair warning. We just passed the ordinance last night that -- but it don't cover this year. It's something we can plan on. When you get hit, you know, with a bill of 4,200 bucks that you didn't plan on -- Joint Meridian City Council - ACHD Commissioners Meeting May 22, 2014 Page 23 of 23 Jaurena: You're a victim of your own success, too. I mean this town's grown big and the parade's got big, so the cost from ten years ago is completely a different thing. Now, again, we are supporting this -- Bird: And, you know, we have no problem with paying our way if we know ahead of time, but a month before the parade -- Item 6: Closing Remarks De Weerd: Is there anything else? Any other questions for Sabrina? Okay. Well, again, I'd like to thank you for coming here today and we -- I know we appreciate the opportunity to sit around the table and discuss things and are important and as -- as discussed today I guess on the to do is to request from COMPASS to see the safe routes to school and if the YMCA has a map that can be used in prioritization of those and maybe would help our staffs maybe work closer together as development comes in that we do need to put a request in front of the school district bond committee to consider the funding of connectivity with sidewalks as they look at new school placement and the third one was to convene a meeting with some key stakeholders in areas of high growth to see how we can look at encouraging road improvements ahead of development or as development occurs with a reimbursement agreement -- maybe using some of the new tools, whether it's STARS or a CID, impact fee reimbursement, whatever happens, but that we have those conversations. Did I miss anything? Rountree: Madam Mayor, on the first point, I think probably the request is on the minds of -- since we are all member agencies and with COMPASS, but just a staff effort to revise the information and, Brian, you indicated we all have some information and putting together a lot of that information would be -- De Weerd: Okay. Rountree: The GIS capability is there and -- Jaurena: And, Madam Mayor? And sort of the genesis between the staff of developing a protocol for expectations, who is going to go where and why. De Weerd: Okay. Very good. Thank you. Again, thank you so much. We are adjourned. MEETING ADJOURNED AT 4:36 P.M. (AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) -b/ 10 /Iq MAYOR Y DE WEERD DATE APPROVED ATTES <11 AICUs r 9 Cityof JAYC HOLMAN, CITY CLEZEKIDTAN�—SEAL '41 TRI 0 UR6