HomeMy WebLinkAbout2004 02-10 PreCITY OF MERIDIAN
PRE -COUNCIL MEETING
AGENDA
Tuesday, February 10, 2004 at 6:00 p.m.
City Council Chambers
1. Roll -call Attendance:
Shaun Wardle Bill Nary
Charlie Rountree Keith Bird
Mayor Tammy de Weerd
2. Adoption of the Agenda:
3. Discussion of Ice Skating Facilltv:
(*15 minutes)
4. Discussion of Snake River Racing Remote Control Car Track:
(*5 minutes)
5. Discussion of Parks and Recreation Commission Proposed
Ordinance-,
(15 minutes)
S. Discussion of Council Agendas:
(*15 minutes)
7. Discussion of Resolutions Dealing with CDBG Applications:
- Fair Housing
- Anti -Displacement and Relocation Assistance Plan
- Citizen Participation Plan
- Non -Discrimination and Grievance Procedures
(*5 minutes)
*Approximate allowable time set for agenda item may change depending on
discussion. Please use the designated minutes as a guideline only.
Meridian City Cotmcil Agenda—January 27, 2004 Page 1 of 1
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Meridian City Pre -Council Meetina February 10 2004
The Pre -Council Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:00
P.M. on Tuesday, February 10, 2004 by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Keith Bird, Tammy de Weerd, Shaun Wardle, Charlie
Rountree, Bill Nary.
Others Present: Anna Powell, Bill Nichols, Bill Musser, Doug Strong, Brad
Watson, Diane Stewart, Gary Smith, Jeff Oviat
Item 1. Roll Call Attendance:
X Tammy de Weerd X Bill Nary
X Cherie McCandless X Keith Bird
X Mayor Robert Corrie
Item 2. Adoption of the Agenda:
Bird: Move to adopt the agenda as published.
Rountree: Second.
Nary: Moved and seconded to adopt the agenda as published. All those in
favor?
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Item 3. Discussion of Ice Skating Facility:
Nary: Anybody here from the Ice Skating Facility?
• ►.
Nary: I know —
Green: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. I got a phone call from
Charlotte Catlett, who said she wasn't going to be here tonight and she just
wanted the information after the meeting is over.
Nary: I think she was supposed to provide us a little bit more information. I
guess maybe it was unclear to Ms. Catlette as to what exactly was the
expectation for tonight. Council, what I will do is with Mr. Berg coordinate again
another opportunity. I think what we had asked was for them to give us a little
more information over what they would like to do, expectations and that obviously
wasn't what she thought, so, we'll — it bought us a little time.
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
February 10, 2004
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Bird: Mr. President.
Nary: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Before we get off that, I would also like to know what type of building they
are planning o n. S ome kind of an idea of whether, you know, I don't want a
(inaudible) out there or something like that. At one time, they had talked about
something like that. I would like — if they got an idea of what the makeup of the
building is going to be.
Nary: I will ask them if they have some drawings or something like that as to
what their expectations are — my assumption is that they are trying to raise
money and they are going to have something to show people —
Bird: That and well, they got an idea if they are going to — you know they say
they want to raise about 2.5. So, they got an idea of what the kind of building
they are going to have.
Nary: We will re -communicate with the folks doing that and ask them to come —
it won't be for a couple of weeks now, but we have got some other things more
pressing on the agenda for the next week or two.
Item 4. Discussion of Snake River Racing Remote Control Car Track:
Nary: Mr. Strong.
Strong: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council this issue has been discussed in
our Park's & Recreation Commission Meeting back in November, I believe and
was passed to bring forward to the Mayor and to Council. Essentially what we
are looking for or what the club is looking for is a central valley location for their
club racing activities for remote control cars. The site that was discussed in the
Commission meeting would be the five -acre track next to the Police Station,
which gives it good access near the freeway and easy access for anybody
traveling from either east or west to take part in racing events or weekly practice
activities. What's being proposed is the club would build and maintain the track
and the dimensions are roughly 250 foot by 175 -foot area of that five -acre track
and in discussion it seemed like it would be compatible use with other things
being considered for that area next to the Police Station. It's a dirt track, there is
not much development that takes place other than wood borders and structures
like that and an area to operate the cars. If you have questions about the track,
Mr. Jeff Oviat with Snake River Racing is present tonight and can answer
questions specific to what they are proposing.
Bird: Did he bring one of his cars down? They are neat. They are fantastic.
Strong: The Commission was able to actually see and touch and tear apart one
of the cars, so —
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February 10, 2004
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De Weerd: And we didn't get that opportunity?
Bird: No, you didn't. I was hoping he'd bring it, it was neat. I am sorry, Mr.
President. Mr. President.
Nary: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I know Chief Musser is in agreement with this and everything — it's use for
the five acres.
Musser: President Nary, members of the Council, Madame Mayor — got through
the whole litany there. Director Strong and I have been talking about this five
acres, seeing if we can come up with some sort of mixed use approach on our
own and find a couple of different types of uses for that land out there so it just
doesn't sit vacant and we can help develop and give something back to the
community and also demonstrate a joint effort between departments. I know I
had mentioned in the past that we were looking at a K-9 training facility that
would also be open for off lead type of dog usage with some of our K-9 clubs in
the town. The dirt track area for the cars is just but one area that we occupy with
that and then we were also kind of toying with a third application, which would be
an area for the BMX bikers to help keep them off the skate board park too.
Ultimately, that is what we were working at and we have had some conceptual
things, but we are just trying to get by in for what we were looking at from the
Council, the Commission so that we can move forward on it and see if we can't
provide something in general for the citizens here.
Nary: Doug, I was a little curious on the way that it's worded in your memo it
says the track would be constructed and maintained entirely by the club now. I
am assuming that the intent is to — the club would sort of have first use for
advanced activities or some sort, but they would sponsor or promote for this site.
But the off time when it's not used for those activities it would be open to the
public? Is that what's intended, or what?
Strong: Mr. President, Members of the Council. I would assume a scenario
similar to t hat. I think that an agreement would have to b e struck that would
identify use and priorities for use. While, there are concerns that has been
discussed in Commission is that there has also been a proposal to develop a
small BMX bike area there with dirt mounds and that — possibly some paved
areas or hard surface areas for BMX bikes, but also dirt areas. We would want
to ensure that eager BMX bikers didn't use the remote control car track for their
jumps and things like that, so Chief Musser is correct in that we are exploring
compatible uses for that site. Obviously, there would be some investment by the
City upfront in our department to develop a gravel parking lot and access into the
site. We would probably need some water and electrical hookup and some
minimal site developments like that before we move ahead and then I believe
Chief Musser has somebody working on a plan for the K-9 area and help with the
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
February 10, 2004
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development of that, so we would need to probably come back with a master site
plan for the entire site that would include this portion of that five acres.
Wardle: Mr. President.
Nary: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Doug, when you — do we have any preliminary budget numbers for what
that might cost the City as far as gravel parking lot and some utilities? Any
preliminaries?
Strong: I do not.
Wardle: Would that be something that could be brought back with the master
site plan for the area?
Strong: That would be the best time to take a look at cost.
Wardle: I agree that this would be a great use if we can get other uses in there.
I would like to see, personally, a site plan and some proposed costs and an
agreement. Do you have any information as to what Boise's agreement with the
site at (inaudible) Boise is with their track?
Strong: Mr. President, Councilman Wardle, I haven't explored any of their costs
or what they have done there at all. One of the things that when we were first
exploring the concept of developing this five acres would be relatively
inexpensive ways to use the site on an interim basis. Recognizing that that five
acres is a part of potential future development for the Police Department. We
wouldn't want to create anything that would be so hard surfaced or so in place
that if the Police Department needed to expand their building or other facilities
that would be in conflict with those future plans. Things we are looking at would
be relatively inexpensive to developing and probably could be done within current
budget and that's the way we would approach it, either by getting groups like this
that are going to do the entire development maintenance of the site and then
some Police Department resources for the K-9 training area and things like that.
So, we will have to put a cost to it at some point when we master plan it.
Rountree: Mr. President.
Nary: Mr. Rountree, I am sorry.
Rountree: (Inaudible). Don't take my comments as trying to dissuade you. I
just need to know. Talking about three concepts. Right now we are talking about
the local remote car usage. What kind of traffic are you going to generate? How
much use? Are there tournaments? Are there race days? What do we plan for?
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February 10, 2004
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Strong: Mr. President, Council Rountree I think I would like to defer that to Jeff
who is here who can best answer that question.
Rountree: Let me give a couple more to you and then I will hear that. I heard
mention that possibility of a gravel parking lot concerns me a little bit. I assume it
would have to go through some kind of a variance process with the City because
I don't believe we'd let anybody else develop a gravel parking lot, even though it
is a temporary use. So, that's an issue that needs to be confronted. I read in the
memo and I heard you say something a little bit different about the maintenance.
I read in the memo that they agreed to develop and maintain the track.
Strong: Yes. Just the track.
Rountree: I heard you allude that they may maintain the area or at least their
portion of the area and I think that needs to be made clear who is going to
maintain this area because it's going to be occupied by other's litter. If it's not a
developed area with vehicles off a gravel or a paved parking lot, you are going to
be grading, you are going to be doing all kinds of things to maintain the site. So,
is that something that you are asking the City to contemplate? Your department
is going to do? Any thoughts on that?
Strong: Mr. President, Councilman Rountree, obviously we would have some
increased maintenance of the site if we have any activity there at all. All we
would obligate this group to would be the maintenance of the area that they are
using. There would be garbage containers and some other minimal
maintenance, probably some grassy areas to mow and things like that. So, there
would be additional maintenance to our department.
Rountree: To your department? Okay. I guess my final comment is I think it's
great that we use these open spaces to the benefit of the community on an
interim basis. As long as agreements are written in such a way as the folks can
understand it's interim, I encourage it. But, we do have some issues that we
have got to take care of.
Nary: Council, do you want to hear from the gentleman from the Snake River
Racing?
Rountree: P lease. J ust c urious to find o ut a bout t he a vents and t he p rimary
folks that participate.
Oviat: Good evening.
Nary: Could you state your name for the record, please.
Oviat: Jeff Oviat.
Nary: And you are with Snake River Racing?
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February 10, 2004
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Oviat: Yes.
Nary: Could you give us a kind of a sense of the usage, your expectation would
be for this site and the type of traffic that might generate — numbers of people
and those kinds of things.
Oviat: Based on the club that's in Boise right now it's an average of 20 to 30
participants on an every other weekend basis brought up by a schedule of
because of holidays and what not we go through a whole year and come up with
the schedule of every other weekend. Right now the other place has a schedule
and I have agreed to work with them so long as this goes through to counter their
weekends. But, that's what we are looking at is about every other weekend and
then it is open to the public. Racing is open to the public — race days, practice
days — you know, anytime that we are allowed to be there due to noise ordinance
or anything like that.
Rountree: Mr. President.
Nary: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Do you collect fees or anything for events? Do you have
tournaments, those kinds of things?
Oviat: There would be —
Rountree: — charge entrance fees?
Oviat: Yes, there would be a due to actually join the club. It all stays in the club.
All the money will stay in the club and there are benefits to being in the club. It
costs you two dollars less to be a club member to race than if you were a non-
member. Everybody is eligible to race or to become a member.
Bird: Mr. President.
Nary: Mr. Bird.
Bird: A couple of questions, Jeff. One is just the racers pay an entry fee? And it
stays for trophies and stuff like that, right?
Oviat: Yes.
Bird: Also, with each car you say there is 20 to 30 cars on race days?
Oviat: Yes, there could be.
Meddlan City Pre -Council Meetlng
February 10, 2004
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Bird: And what do you have? Two people with each car or one vehicle per car
that comes to the track?
Oviat: N o, t here a re p eople that race various — t here a re c lasses of d ifferent
cars. Some people race up to four classes.
Bird: Okay, yes, I understand, but how many cars would you guess on a race
day that would be out there? 20 or 30?
Oviat: What kind of car?
Bird: The driving car. (Inaudible).
Oviat: The most I have seen is about 20 cars.
Bird: Okay, I think that was the question that you asked wasn't it?
Rountree: Yes, and he answered it.
Bird: Oh, I am sorry, I missed it. I was going to sleep here.
Oviat: Boy, it's going to be a long night. There is a lot of family or father and
son, nephews with gentlemen that come out there and participate. So, it's not
just one car per person.
Nary: Any other questions?
Oviat: Thank you.
Powell: Mr. President.
Nary: Ms. Powell.
Powell: The use would likely require conditional use approvals, so if the Parks
and Police Department would like to work with Planning a little bit before hand,
we can maybe suggest some things, but don't forget — don't forget.
Nary: I am sure that was their intent all along
Powell: Yes.
Nary: Mr. Strong, do you need some direction from us to go forth and do that or
do you — I guess, what my expectations would be and Council can correct me if I
am wrong. What I would anticipate you doing now is coming up with some sort
of master plan for this site with the Police Department and with this in mind as
one of the pieces of that master plan and then whatever needs to be done
working out those details with Planning as well as that issue in the gravel parking
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
February 10, 2004
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lot that Councilman Rountree raised. That way the BMX or
Snake River Racing folks know what schedule they are on to be
together. Is that a fair timetable — is that kind of what everyone
wise? Someone want something different than that?
Rountree: Works for me.
Nary: Does that sound okay to you, Mr. Strong?
Strong: That would be fine.
excuse me the
able to put this
thinks process
Nary: Great. So, ultimately, we will see it again before we get too much further
down the road. Before we are turning dirt, we will see it again.
Strong: It will require communication with the Police Department and that could
be tough.
Nary: He is here every Tuesday night, at least for a while. Great. Thank you.
Next is the Parks and Recreation Commission Ordinance.
De Weerd: That's you again.
Item 5. Discussion of Parks and Recreation Commission Proposed
Ordinance:
Strong: Mr. President, members of the Council, Madam Mayor. What you have
before you is something that has evolved over time, I guess would be the easiest
way to describe this. There has been several additions of a proposed change to
the existing Park & Recreation Commission Ordinance. It's taken a number of
months to get to this point. So, what you see before you — I hope you have a
colored copy. You will see a read through by Mr. Bill Nichols our City Attorney
that's in bold and statements from his review in between paragraphs and then
some revisions in red that were made by Commission members working on the
subcommittee to pull this ordinance together and then the edits that you see
either underlined or crossed -out in green are my edits to the proposed ordinance.
With all that being said, there is still some editing that needs to take place
because I think that there are one or two places in the ordinance where I missed
adding recreation to Parks & Recreation Commission, so that it reads throughout
as Parks & Recreation Commission Ordinance. So, with that I will stand for
questions if you have had the opportunity to look through it.
Wardle: Mr. President.
Nary: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Doug, one of the things that we have talked about and I am just going to
ask if it's been resolved is the difference between a recommending body and a
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
February 10, 2004
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policy-making body for the Parks Commission. Is that something that has been
resolved or is that something you need direction from the Council on?
Strong: M r. P resident a nd C ouncilman Wardle, I t hink t hat h opefully with t his
(inaudible) and with Mr. Nichols' review as well, you will see that the edits that I
have made in this have changed some of the wording that read as a policy to an
advisory capacity for the Commission to be consistent with what the intent of the
Commission as I understand it from what it's inception was. So, if there is
anything that still reads as policy versus advisory we would need further review
of that, but I believe that most all of that's been caught and you will see in Mr.
Nichols' notes there are several locations in the document where that change
has been recommended.
Wardle: Mr. President.
Nary: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: And just to follow up. I know from my time on the Parks Commission
that that was a question from some of the Commissioners as to — that were
working on the ordinance — as to what the City would like to see that body be.
Personally, I feel that it's a recommending body that's a very important body to
the City, but one that recommends projects and policies to the Mayor and to
Council who ultimately make those decisions.
Nary: Doug, I missed what you said when I was looking for my color copy. The
red, the green and then the black bold are which? What's the difference between
them?
Strong: The black bold in between paragraphs is Mr. Nichols' review and
recommendations for how it needed to be worded in some cases. The red
changes are actually changes made by Commission members that were on the
subcommittee to review and recommend this ordinance. Then the green
changes our mind. After my read through, providing additional edits.
Nary: So, is the green changes after you reviewed the comments from Mr.
Nichols?
Strong: Yes.
Nary: Okay. Because I noticed his comment and then the green makes that
change and I just wanted to make sure I understood that —
Strong: It's also after the red edits.
Nary: The green is the last one that you did?
Strong: The green is the last.
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February 10, 2004
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Nary: I got it. Okay.
Strong: Green is go, I guess.
Nary: Okay. Council do you have other questions or concerns about — or
Madame Mayor — about the ordinance and I guess the ultimate proposal are the
edits that are in green and I think, I guess, I would echo what Councilman Wardle
just said too. I do concur that I think that the really the objective and
responsibility of Commissions are recommending bodies and not necessarily
policy making bodies, but I think you have captured that in the final edit through
here. I think that really is the intent, but does anyone else have any other input
for Mr. Strong?
Strong: Mr. President, just for some additional clarifications. I read through this
today at what is here still needs some changes it looks like because I think
staggered terms is identified as needing to be clarified, so there needs to be
some final writing to the document to make it accurate before we have a final
document. This is a draft document. All of that will need to be carefully reviewed
again. It's been a while since, I think, everybody has looked at it.
Bird: Mr. President.
Nary: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Let's say that Doug needs to go through and I agree with him that there is a
couple of areas that need to be added in like the staggered terms, the
succession of terms and all that stuff and get it back to us and give us a week to
work it over and run it through the program. I like the basics of it real well. So
much better than the old one.
Nichols: Mr. President.
Nary: Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: Mr. President, members of the Council, Madame Mayor. I think the key
thing was to get a sense from the Council the recommending versus policy-
making part of it because it was the position of our former Mayor that that's the
way it ought to be and it didn't really move forward to you, but I know that there
were — I believe there were some on the Commission that felt — the Parks and
Recreation Commission had felt differently about it. So, as long as — which we
have we have got your clear indication on what direction you want us to go, then
we will work on getting it in final form and bringing it back to you at a future time
for you to go through it and go forward with it.
Nary: As always, you were reading my mind because that's what I was going to
say was that it appears that the main question in reading this was that distinction
Meridian City Pre -Council Meegng
February 10, 2004
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between policy-making essentially and recommendations and seems to me that
what Council is saying that they prefer that recommending language that you got
in the last edit. Madame Mayor, did you have anything?
De Weerd: Y es, M r. President, l k now w hen they started this they wanted to
tailor it after that the way the Boise Commission is set up and that is not policy-
making either. I think with the new director and a better working relationship it
deals with a lot of the concerns that the Commission had when they originated
the rewrite of this ordinance and so some of that has been taken care of through
other happenings —
Bird: (inaudible) —
De Weerd: I was going to say that and then I decided not to. So, it does look
good. I guess the question remains for me is similar to Planning & Zoning. They
are not a decision-making body in most cases, but their recommendations come
to City Council in a written form, you have been the bearer of their
recommendations and I would like to see a little bit more formality to them
expressing their opinions and motions. At least maybe that the minutes are
extracted to where the motion is in written form to Council so they are more
aware of what the Commissions coming from on the various issues that come in
front of us.
Nary: Mr. Wardle
Wardle: Mr. President. Thank you. I agree with the Mayor and one of the things
that will help me as the liaison to this department currently would be — and I think
we are doing a good job with the memos that are coming into the Council. I have
a little more knowledge on some of the events having attended the Commission
meetings, but it allows the Council to ask questions that the director or I can
answer and so I think we are beginning to move towards a little bit better process
bringing things from the Commission to the Council, but I would like to see just a
little bit more formality. My follow up question to Doug is is there an item that can
be addressed in — is it on the agenda for tomorrow's Commission meeting?
Strong: Mr. President, Councilman Wardle it's on as an information item update
on what we attempted to do at each Commission meeting is bring back anything
that is passed out on the Commission and update on it's progress through the
Council, so we update every month on anything that's pending and just as a point
of c larification t he form t hat you s ee i t i n n ow h as p assed o ut o f t he P arks &
Recreation Commission as acceptable, at least in draft form.
Nary: I guess — Madame Mayor, members of the Council do you want — when
you are saying you want some formality, I mean do you want like some sort of
signed document f rom the Commission or some sort of memo f rom the Chair
saying the Commission has discussed this item and is that the formality that you
are talking about?
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February 10, 2004
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Wardle: Mr. President.
Nary: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: One of the things that I would like to see and we talk about these
projects — the skating rink being one of them and Adventure Island being another
is potentially some sort of an informational packet. We just addressed tonight
that the people from the skate rink are not here and we don't have a lot of
information. If we could have some sort of a short presentation — and I am
thinking of the zoning packets that go through Planning & Zoning. Certainly, not
necessarily quite as complex as that, but something where the staff can make
recommendations on certain individual points would be helpful for myself when
deciding on projects that come out the Commission.
Strong: Mr. President, members of the Council if I could just clarify what we
currently do so we have some idea of what the expectation is that would help us
so that we have something specific to work from. Following a Commission
meeting we have an agenda that the following morning any action taken or that
occurred at the meeting is hand written in much like the Council minutes that we
receive the next day after a Council meeting whether an item was approved or
not. That is sent out to the Mayor and Council the next day and then as you see
in the packets that you have, the memo that comes to the Council with the
recommendation that comes from the Commission and it comes from me to the
Council in the format that you see it here. So, if we need to do something more
formal than this or in a different timeframe that's what we would need specific
guidance on.
De Weerd: Mr. President.
Nary: Madame Mayor.
De Weerd: I guess I ask a Council member— I feel kind of immaterial right now—
as a Council member I would have preferred to see what the motion was and if
there were any additional comments or stipulations or discussion points they
wanted specifically addressed by the Council. I guess that that would be helpful
in the dialogue because in some of this they know in more detail about the
program and the project themselves and so just an opportunity for them to bring
a certain aspect of it to our attention that maybe they had considerable
discussion or dialogue on that they felt would warrant maybe more of a policy
type discussion or further discussion by Council.
Strong: Mr. President, members of Council this is beyond the minutes that you
get later in the month from the Commission meeting then. Something earlier in
the month is what you are talking about as far as a discussion?
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February 10, 2004
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De Weerd: No, just for the packet regarding that specific item. So, you know —
it's more the reader's digest if you extract it from the minutes or they in their
motion have to bring up certain, for lack of a better word, findings that they would
like us to consider as requirements or for item's of discussion.
Wardle: Mr. President.
Nary: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Just to take the current example that we just heard about the car race
track and some of the other things that are going to be combined into that — I
would personally like to see a proposal that came together that included costs
and we talked about costs a little bit — there would be costs, estimated
timeframes, potentially outstanding issues for the Council being working between
the departments. Some of those issues that let us know everything that's going
on with that project in just a short reader's digest version and potentially follow
that with the motion made from the Commission so that it gives us just a little
more information so that we can act appropriately.
Nary: I guess what I am trying synthesize what you folks are saying is that
recommendation form like we have been getting from Planning & Zoning that
synthesizes what the Commission said, what issues are still left to discuss. Is
that kind of the format or idea you are talking about versus just — having the
minutes with your memo would be more helpful because they don't come
together so I have to — one is on one disc and ones on another so I don't always
have a way to put them back together, but like we have been getting from
Planning & Zoning for a while now is, for lack of a better term, a cheat sheet that
says here is what they talked about and here is how many people showed up,
here is the issues they raised, here is the issues that are still left to discuss.
Because one of the things that we don't always see is that what if the project or
proposal has changed from what the Commission saw to what they bring here,
we a re n of really going to know what's d ifferent u nless you tell u s that this i s
different, but you know — something like that if the Commission gave them some
direction saying well we will recommend it, but we'd recommend that before you
go to Council you fix this or change that or whatever that we'd have some way,
something that shows us here is what the Commission wanted, here's what they
directed, here's the issues that they couldn't resolve that are here if there is any —
you know, whatever those things are. It's kind of like what your memo is, but it
sort of pulls together here's the Commission, here's Parks, here's your
department's perspective of this project and then if there is relevant minutes to
that discussion because again like with Planning & Zoning we get the minutes. I
am not trying to create more work for you, I am just saying that when we see it, it
kind of all blends together as all those pieces then it might make it a little easier.
Does that sound all right? Does that make sense? We can get the minutes for
this —Okay, any other questions for Mr. Strong?
Bird: I have none.
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
February 10, 2004
Page 14 of 21
Nary: Okay, so it sounds like with this one, we are kind of on track to get the
changes made on the Park's Ordinance and bring it back.
Strong: Mr. President, members of Council you want it brought back as a final
proposal for an ordinance?
Bird: Please.
Strong: From the attorney's office?
Nary: I t hink s o. We w ill t alk a little bit about agenda h ere i n a s econd a nd
whether or not we are going to — how process wise we get those ordinances on,
but other than making these few changes it sounds to me like what was the
Council's direction was to continue with that recommending body type of
language and clean up those few other minor issues you had left.
Strong: Okay, thank you.
Nary: Council on our next item is Item Number 6.
Item 6. Discussion of Council Agendas:
Nary: We have had this on a few weeks to kind of get this straight in our mind. I
believe I forwarded it to all of you. It may have been yesterday or today. Ms.
Powell had some suggestions on some of that. Mr. Nichols had given us copies
of the appropriate ordinances that would need to be addressed. Does anyone
want to start as to what their preferences of how we maybe restructure some of
our agendas to help streamline our meeting a little bit?
Bird: Mr. President.
Nary: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would like to hear an explanation. I have never had a real clear
explanation of what we want to change. I think I know where we are going. I
don't agree 100 percent with where I think we are going. I think our system has
been pretty successful. I know it needs to be worked over now and then. I am
not in any favor of the citizens not being able to voice their opinions if they'd like,
but in the same token, I'll probably contradicting myself, I'd like to see as much
stuff as we can on consent agenda, you know what I mean? In the same token, I
think this system has been very successful for a city that has grown faster than
anybody in the State of Idaho at least over the last 13 or 14 years. Not that we
haven't had our problems and I know there are some things that we need to
tweak, but I'd just like to know what — I never had anybody really say well, we
want to change this, we want to do this or we want to do that. If you have that,
I'd like you to tell me, Bill.
Meridian City Pre-Councll Meeting
February 10, 2004
Page 15 of 21
Nary: Sure. I guess I'll give you a little bit of my perspective. I would agree with
you that most of the way we do our things I think are pretty effective and most of
our agenda, I think, is pretty well done and probably can't be shortened to any
significant amount. There is a couple of things that we do as a practice that may
or may not have a tremendous value to what we do and seem to add a lot of time
to our meeting. I will tell you the number one thing to me is the fact that we
swear in every person that comes to testify.
Bird: 1 agree 100 percent.
Nary: I don't know anywhere in the State Code that requires that and I think that
that was kind of part of our discussion point with Mr. Nichols is whether or not it is
really necessary. It's necessary because of our ordinance requires it, but is it
necessary by state law that we do it that way? It doesn't appear that we gain a
lot of value because realistically, I think as we have discussed on a number of
occasions, the folks that come here to tell us what they think are just telling us
what they think.
Bird: It's an opinion, not necessarily —
Nary: T hey a re n of necessarily telling u s something t hat really h as a I of of —
whether — it's not really an issue to them whether it's true. They believe it to be
true because it's their opinion about something. That would save us some time
without minimizing the content or the opportunity to give us their input. So, I
guess that's one of the things in our agenda. I agree with you — the more that we
can put on our consent agenda, the better. We want to make sure, of course,
that we don't short circuit the public input as you stated. Another thing that we
can group together is we can either by creating an agenda item for uncontested
projects, like a consent agenda for the plats so that we make sure that each of
the plats that we have the applicant tell us they are in concurrence with the
conditions or they are not; they want to discuss them, we have a number of
occasion — we have actually been fortunate lately we have had a number of final
plats that there hasn't been an issue on or plats for phases or projects there
hasn't been an issue. We could group them together and maybe pass them in
one motion rather than three or four motions for that. Again, I think Mr. Nichols'
input will be helpful on those. Obviously, at the public hearing stage we have
tried to at least combine the items from different applications, but all for the same
item annexations and preliminary plats and all of those things. So, I think we
have tried to do that if we have eliminated the swearing in or at least did it in a
different manner that might help us a little bit on time. I think it's very intimidating
to folks sometimes to do that. Lastly, one of the things we haven't had a lot of
lately, but sometimes I think we have all sat here when we have had four or five
ordinances and the necessity to read the title from beginning to end and Mr.
Nichols can tell us if the State Code says we — the State Code says, I think, you
have to read the title. Now, I know in other cities, they don't really read the actual
title; the title is printed on the agenda. The motion, which is normally — like in
Meridian City Pre-Coundl Meeting
February 10, 2004
Page 16 of 21
Boise, is done by the Clerk saying it's considered read by title. If that's legally
adequate that certainly helps if we put those ordinances at the end of the
meeting, so that the public doesn't have to sit through a half an hour of reading
every one of those things until we get to the public hearings. That might help at
least the public's being able to sit here and listen to that. We have had some
discussions — I think Ms. Powell's email has some structural things as well that
might help the process move a little quicker and be a little more efficient and try
to keep some time limits on some things so that again people aren't rambling on
and on about the same thing and try to focus their attention and if we let them
know up front kind of like we have done occasionally, we did again last week and
same here again we got 15 minute time period. Keep the people sort of on pace.
That might help a little bit. The last thing; some of our department reports, I
think, are very helpful. It's good to hear from the departments. There are certain
things that probably we can compartmentalize differently. One of the
suggestions — this isn't driven by our ordinance, we have a monthly financial
report from the finance director in person for sometimes what is a three minute
report to a written report we already received. My view is we should probably
have the monthly written report, but we probably don't need Ms. Kilchennman to
stay every month for five minutes. We could probably do that quarterly with her
so that she still is getting the written material to you, if there is something in the
interim of those quarters that you feel is important that you want to have finance
present for we can certainly do that at a pre -council meeting, but to do that
regulariy just seems like a lot of wasted effort to some of those things. So, those
are some of my thoughts as to ways I might do that and again, I think,
Councilman Rountree probably has some as well and Mr. Wardle, but we'll
probably need to hear from Mr. Nichols on at least the issue about swearing in
these folks and whether or not that is really necessary. What do you think, Mr.
Nichols?
Nichols: Mr. President, members of the Council there is no requirement State
Code that the witnesses be sworn. You can even take the, I think the point that
even a sign is posted that witnesses are expected to testify truthfully and that sort
of thing and then you just take them at their word. If someone gets caught in
some sort of a fib that's different. But, typically, these are things that are not
really controverted in terms of fact. Someone looking at how a development
would impact their property, not necessarily something that the developer is
going to be able to come up and say well you are all (inaudible). It is a matter of
perception and for the most part folks are up here telling what they believe to be
true. Anyway, it's just a requirement in your ordinance. So, if you take that
requirement out, I don't think it diminishes the record because the record is still
there that folks have given you information upon which you can rely. Now, I have
been — most other places that 1 have appeared on behalf of clients in like Canyon
County, Owyhee County they do swear in the witnesses as a group at the
beginning of the meeting. They swear in the staff at the beginning of the
meeting. You can't testify unless you signed up. You have to indicate on the
sign up sheet whether you intend to testify or not and many times people say
yes, but then their name is called and they decline. So, that is another approach
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
February 10, 2004
Page 17 of 21
that you can use would be to swear them in. I am not aware of a state statute or
a case that says they have to be sworn. I think you would run a risk if you have
an ordinance that says they have to be sworn and you don't then you do run a
risk on that point of it because you haven't followed your own rules.
Rountree: Mr. President.
Nary: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I guess there is just some protocols or procedures or comments that
we do — we opened this evening with a role call of attendance and state the
obvious to a person to our left that we are all here. Why can't something as
simple as a silent role call be taken for that and the opening of our Council
meeting? That saves 30 seconds. Not a lot of time, but you know. When it
approaches 1:00 in the morning that's a lot of time. Making of motions, we have
a tendency to want to read exactly what is on the agenda in the form of this is
what the motion is all about as opposed to what the content of a findings should
be and that sort of thing. It seems to me that a motion could be to approve or
deny an agenda item by item number and/or alpha character and then state your
specific directions that would go with that approval or denial and again, not state
the obvious that findings of facts and conclusions and decisions be prepared
because that's just what's done. I don't know how specific we have to get it in
motions and in that regard, whether we have to read everything on paper. It
seems to me we could save some time and head scratching occasionally
because sometimes I am trying to figure out what to say in a motion and try to
remember the real important things like what somebody said about agreeing or
disagreeing with the staff comment or that sort of thing that actually should be in
the motion that isn't already a matter of record.
Wardle: Mr. President.
Nary: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: I also agree with and I'll agree on that point with Councilman Rountree
that it would greatly help my ability to listen more intently to public testimony if I
know at the end of the action we could move on an item and be specific about
what kind of action we wanted to have. I also agree that swearing in the public if
it is not necessary that we need to look at changing that ordinance. I also believe
that some of the comments that you have made about moving some of those
ordinance readings to the end of the meeting so that we can move to the public
hearings faster and the department reports faster so that city business that may
not interest the public or they might not have comments on could be taken care
of at the end of the meeting, so I do agree with those.
Bird: Mr. President.
Nary: Mr. Bird.
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
February 10, 2004
Page 18 of 21
Bird: If I could add something. I think sitting through a lot of Council meetings,
late ones which you and Shaun don't know what late is do they Charlie? But I
think the biggest thing is at the public hearings that I would attend at the other
cities they are very strict with their time. We are not strict with our time. We
have had developers that have set here for 30 and 35 minutes getting their point
across and it has been repetitious. I think there is ways we can streamline our
meetings. I think you — Nampa has got a real nice way. At eight the public
hearings start — I am just throwing out eight o'clock and at 10 the meeting is over.
If they are not over they are continued. They go on a very strict deal. I am for
streamlining any way we can as long as we keep integrity of the citizens within
policy. The swearing in I think is — it's ridiculous and Charlie can see if I am
wrong, but I don't recall swearing in until we hired our outside attorneys and had
a certain attorney come on board that figured out he had to swear everybody in.
De Weerd: Mr. President.
Nary: Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: I guess we were — Mr. Bird, we were only following our own orders.
Bird: I know—
De Weerd: So, if want to change that —
Bird: We didn't follow them before.
De Weerd: We certainly need to do that. But, I think the suggestions that our
Planning & Zoning Director has suggested in formatting of and of educating our
public that will probably be here to testify as to that process is very helpful and it
does keep the integrity of the public process and allows them a chance to
comment. I think that since the beginning of the year we have maintained the
timing and I see you have added five minutes so be it and that's fair. We just
need to be fair and consistent. That's something that should happen both here at
City Council and also at our Planning & Zoning Commission. We shouldn't run
our meetings two different ways. So, perhaps the fifth Tuesday of — if there is a
fifth Tuesday we have a joint meeting with Planning & Zoning Commission that
happens in March and we did talk at the director's meeting today that we meet
jointly with the Planning & Zoning Commission that's an ideal time since we have
two new Planning Commissioners to discuss how we want to run our meetings
and that we do have that consistency and it's going to help them out a lot more.
Our meetings rarely go past 10:30. So, I think that some of the comments
tonight are being followed and would be easy enough to change if we want to
take out the swearing of the person giving testimony that it would require an
ordinance change, but that wouldn't be all that time consuming.
Nary: Ms. Powell.
Meridien City Pre -Council Meeting
February 10, 2004
Page 19 of 21
Powell: Mr. President I did want to add that the consent or abbreviated public
hearing for the non -controversial items wasn't just staff's desire to go home early.
I do get frequent requests from the development community for that. I just
wanted you to know it wasn't purely selfish. It was customer oriented.
Nary: Well, Council, I think our time is running short, but what I would suggest if
you are of a mind, we will get the comments that we have all expressed tonight
and between myself and the Mayor and Mr. Nichols maybe within about two or
three weeks we could just like we do with the other projects bring back what the
amended ordinances will look like, what the proposal of process will be. I think
Councilman Rountree's comments are very well taken and someone has to
acknowledge that everyone is here, but we don't have to call roll every time we
do that. We could certainly approve projects, I don't know if we want to stick with
just letters because then we have to keep this paper showing what letter it is, but
we could certainly do it by the title of the project and not have to read every
single little thing that goes with it. I think we can move that along. I agree with
what you are saying that if we didn't say findings of facts and conclusions of law
decision (inaudible), Mr. Nichols is going to do it anyway. So, whether or not we
actually said those words I think it's still going to happen so maybe within two or
three weeks we can then bring that back to all of you again and say here is what
we propose the process to be and here is how we can streamline it, here is the
ordinance changes that we can put on in a week or two if that's acceptable to
everybody and then maybe we can get this off of our plate. Does that work for
everyone?
Rountree: Sounds great.
De Weerd: Mr. President.
Nary: Madam Mayor
De Weerd: I think though in your motions — I had talked to a city attorney about
this a nd even h ow to o pen u p t he p ublic h earing. I is — I c an i dentify it b y a
number. Also there is an application or your preliminary plat or your CUP
number and then just state the name of the project itself and that would be
sufficient in addition to any changes that you want in the conditions and that sort
of thing. You could probably even start that tonight.
Rountree: Thank you.
De Weerd: You have my permission.
Nary: Our last item is discussion of resolutions dealing with CDBG applications
and there are four on your disks. I don't know who was going to talk about it.
Nichols: Mr. President.
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
February 10, 2004
Page 20 of 21
Nary: Oh, Mr. Nichols.
Item 7. Discussion of Resolutions Dealing with CDBG Applications:
— Fair Housing
— Anti -Displacement and Relocation Assistance Plan
— Citizen Participation Plan
— Non -Discrimination and Grievance Procedures
Nichols: Mr. President, Madam Mayor and members of Council just to let you
know that next week on your agenda will be adoption of resolutions that are
necessary to adopt by February 20th in order for the City to be the applying entity
for the grant to assist the Senior Citizen's Center Rehabilitation project. So,
these are federal requirements we have to have these in place. I had some
concerns about some of the mandates that were in them, but those have already
been anticipated in the contract with Sage and that's part of what they contract
for is to do some of the things that are required in these resolutions of the City.
Things like identifying whether they are any impediments to fair housing in our
statutes or if there are any issues with regard to handicap accessibility under the
Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act and those sorts of things. So, they do that
as part of their contracts. We just need to make sure that we get that as part of
what they do in the contract. It's in the contract, we just need to make sure that
we get it so that when we sign off on these grants that hopefully we will get, that
we are in full compliance with the federal.
Nary: Any questions, Council? Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Mr. President, Council, and Counselor. Are these resolutions
essentially (inaudible) from the housing community development (inaudible) in
the City of Meridian?
Nichols: Councilman Rountree, Madame Mayor and members of the Council
that is correct. These are the same ones that the feds ask communities in
Oregon to sign. I can tell you that from just looking at them. They are
(inaudible). They are ones that probably even have them in Alabama.
De Weerd: Mr. President.
Nary: Madame Mayor.
De Weerd: I believe we have had them in some form or another as we have
received community bought grants that may have been changed slightly but it's
been done in the past.
Nary: Any other questions, Council? One last housekeeping item before we
adjourn the Pre -Council session. Next week's meeting I have been trying to
because of time needs and all that to not start meetings for Pre -Council before
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
February 10, 2004
Page 21 of 21
six at night, but next week the Hudson Company has some more information to
provide us on the studies that they have been working on for the City and Ms.
Blakesly is also here to finish up her follow up on her report and both of those
items together are going to take approximately an hour and one half. So, next
week unless it is a hardship for any of us or at least two of you to not get here we
are probably going to start at 5:30 instead of 6:00 and I apologize for that, like I
said, I know with everyone's schedule that 6:00 is really pushing it sometimes,
but I am hoping that giving you a week's notice that you might be able to be here
and get that done. I just wanted to make you aware of that. Is there any other
business for Pre -Council? Okay then, motion to adjourn.
Rountree: So moved.
Bird: Second.
Nary: All those in favor?
ALL AYES. MOTION CARRIED.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 6:59 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
APPROVED:
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