HomeMy WebLinkAbout2013-05-22 SpecialE IDIAN-^-' CITY COUNCIL SPECIAL
MEETING AGENDA
Wednesday, May 22, 2013 at 7:00 PM
1. Roll-Call Attendance
X David Zaremba X Brad Hoaglun
X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
2. Pledge of Allegiance
3. Community Invocation by Michael Pearson with the Seventh Day Adventist
Church
4. Adoption of the Agenda Adopted
5. Consent Agenda Approved (Pg 2-5)
A. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Approval: MDA 13-007 Medina
Subdivision by William & Mary Howell, Meridian Promenade P1, LLC and
Jack in the Box, Inc. Located Southwest Corner of S. Meridian Road (SH 69)
and W. Overland Road Request: An Amendment to the Existing
Development Agreement for Medina Subdivision to Remove the
Requirement for Conditional Use Approval of all Future Uses on Each Lot
B. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Approval: RZ 13-003 807 N.
Meridian Road by LTD, LLC Located at 807 N. Meridian Road Request:
Rezone of 0.74 of an Acre from the R-8 (Medium Density Residential) to the
O-T (Old Town) Zoning District
C. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Approval: MDA 13-001 Bellabrook
Villas (aka Brookside Square) by ZWJ Properties, LLC Located 300 S.
Locust Grove Road Request: Modify the Existing Development Agreement
to Allow for the Development of 26 Single-Family Residential Dwelling
Units on the Site
D. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Approval: PP 13-002 Bellabrook
Villas (aka Brookside Square) by ZWJ Properties, LLC Located at 300 S.
Locust Grove Road Request: Preliminary Plat approval Consisting of 26
Single-Family Residential Building Lots and Four (4) Common/Other Lots
on 4.38 Acres of Land in an R-15 Zoning District
Meridian City Council Special Meeting Agenda -May 22,2013 Page 1 of 5
All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearing,
please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting.
E. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Approval: MDA 13-004 Gramercy
Pride Apartments by Sagecrest Development, LLC Located 2111 and 2283
S. Accolade Avenue, Lots 9 and 26, Block 3 of Gramercy Subdivision No. 1
Request: Modify the Building Elevations Approved with the Amended
Development Agreement (Instrument #108022888)
F. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP 13-002 Gramercy
Pride Apartments by Sagecrest Development, LLC Located 2111 and 2283
S. Accolade Avenue Request: Conditional Use Permit Approval for 18 Multi-
Family Dwelling Units on Two (2) Lots on Approximately 1.38 Acres in an
Existing R-15 Zoning District
G. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Approval: MDA 13-008 Twelve
Oaks (fka Hark's Canyon Creek Subdivision) by JLJ, Inc. Located 1845 W.
Franklin Road Request: Amendment to the Development Agreement to
Remove the Language Pertaining to the Expired Plat and to Include a
Conceptual Development Plan for a Mixed Use Development
H. Final Order for Approval: FP 13-013 Villas at Lochsa Falls No. 2 by Hayden
Homes Located West Side of N. Linder Road, Midway Between Chinden
Boulevard and W. McMillan Road Request: Final Plat Approval Consisting
of Twenty-Eight (28) Residential Lots and Three (3) Common Lots on
Approximately 4.33 Acres in an R-8 Zoning District
Final Order for Approval: FP 13-012 Tradewinds Subdivision No. 1 by Don
Newell, SDN, LLC Located Southeast Corner of E. Victory Road and S.
Locust Grove Road Request: Final Plat Approval Consisting of 17 Building
Lots and 2 Common/Other Lots on 10.42 Acres of Land Zoned R-8
J. Final Order for Approval: FP 13-014 Spurwing Orchard Subdivision No. 2
by Brighton Development, Inc. Located North Side of Chinden Boulevard;
West of N. Ten Mile Road Request: Final Plat Approval Consisting of Fifty-
Four (54) Single Family Residential Lots and Eight (8) Common/Other Lots
on Approximately 14.05 Acres in an R-8 and R-15 Zoning District
K. Final Order for Approval: FP 13-015 Messina Meadows Subdivision No. 4
by Tuscany Development, Inc. Located North of E. Amity Road, Midway
Between S. Locust Grove Road and S. Eagle Road Request: Final Plat
Approval Consisting of 36 Single Family Residential Building Lots and Six
(6) Common Lots on Approximately 10.52 Acres of Land in an R-8 Zoning
District
L. Final Order for Approval: FP 13-017 Red Wing Subdivision by W.H. Moore
Company Located Southeast Corner of S. Meridian Road (SH 55) and E.
Victory Road Request: Final Plat Approval Consisting of Forty-Eight (48)
Single-Family Residential and One (1) Multi-Family Residential Building
Meridian City Council Special Meeting Agenda -May 22,2013 Page 2 of 5
All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearing,
please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting.
Lots and Nine (9) Common/Other Lots on 31.11 Acres in the R-4 and R-15
Zoning Districts
M. Final Order for Approval: FP 13-016 Zebulon Village Subdivision by The
Traditions by Amyx II, LLP Located South of E. McMillan Road and West of
N. Eagle Road Request: Final Plat Approval Consisting of 40 Single-Family
Residential Building Lots and Six (6) Common/Other Lots on 14.94 Acres in
an R-4 Zoning District
N. Final Order for Approval: FP 13-019 Rushmore Subdivision by Tealey's
Land Surveying Located South of W. Pine Avenue, West of W. Broadway
Avenue Request: Final Plat Consisting of Three (3) Multi-Family Residential
Building Lots and Two (2) Common Lots on Approximately 2.17 Acres of
Land in an R-15 Zoning District
O. Acceptance Agreement: Display of Artwork of Karyn deKramer in Initial
Point Gallery from May 31 to June 28, 2013.
P. Acceptance Agreement: Display of Artwork of Joni Frey in Initial Point
Gallery from May 31 to June 28, 2013
Q. Acceptance Agreement: Display of Artwork of Dan McAlister in Initial Point
Gallery from August 2 to August 30, 2013
R. Acceptance Agreement: Display of Artwork of Sara Allen in Initial Point
Gallery from August 2 to August 30, 2013
S. Acceptance Agreement: Display of Artwork of Gertrude Hudson in Initial
Point Gallery from August 30 to September 27, 2013
T. Acceptance Agreement: Display of Artwork of the City of Meridian
Community Center Art Group in Initial Point Gallery from September 27 to
November 1, 2013
U. Acceptance Agreement: Display of Artwork of Marjorie Reinecker in Initial
Point Gallery from November 1 to November 29, 2013
V. Acceptance Agreement: Display of Artwork of Linda Sherrets in Initial Point
Gallery from November 1 to November 29, 2013
W. Acceptance Agreement: Display of Artwork of Sue Cervenka in Initial Point
Gallery from November 29, 2013 to January 3, 2014
X. Acceptance Agreement: Display of Artwork of Candy Collins in Initial Point
Gallery from November 29, 2013 to January 3, 2014
Meridian City Council Special Meeting Agenda -May 22,2013 Page 3 of 5
All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearing,
please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting.
Y. Resolution No. 13-924: A Resolution Authorizing the City Clerk to Destroy
Certain Semi-Permanent and Temporary Records of the Meridian Police
Department
6. Community Items/Presentations
A. May 21, 2013 Unofficial Election Results (Pg 5-6)
B. City of Meridian Scholarship Presentations (Pg 6-8)
C. Presentation of Award from the Council for the Deaf and Hard of Hearing to
the Meridian Fire Department (Pg 8-11)
7. Items Moved From Consent Agenda
8. Action Items
A. Public Hearing: MDA 13-009 Walmart Overland/Stoddard by Wal-Mart
Stores, Inc. Located Southeast Corner of W. Overland Road and S.
Stoddard Road Request: Modification to the Development Agreement to
Change the Fencing Type Along the Southern Boundary of the Site from
Eight (8) Feet Tall Yinyl to Eight (8) Feet Tall Pre-Cast Concrete Approved
(Pg 11-30)
1. Amended onto the Agenda: Fee Waiver Request from Applicant for
MDA and CZC Applications -Approved (Pg 11-30)
9. Department Reports
A. Amended agenda to read: Mayor's Office: Resolution No. 13-925:
Resolution Appointing Larry Gardner, Ryan Lancaster, Tracy Hopkins,
Stephen Lewis, David Ballard, Jo Ann Bujarski ,Mica Gale, Jack McGee
and Pat Morandi to the Meridian Transportation Commission Approved (Pg
30-32)
B. Meridian Parks and Recreation Department: Park Dedication Plaque
Update (Pg 32-34)
C. Continued from May 7, 2013: Fire Department Emergency Medical Service
(EMS) Joint Powers Agreement Discussion (Pg 34-36)
D. Legal Department: Discussion on the Regulations Regarding Fences in
Setbacks (Pg 36-42)
10. Future Meeting Topics None
Meridian City Council Special Meeting Agenda -May 22,2013 Page 4 of 5
All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearing,
please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting.
Adjourned at 9:12 p.m.
Meridian City Council Special Meeting Agenda -May 22,2013 Page 5 of 5
All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearing,
please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting.
Meridian City Council Special Meeting May 22, 2013
A special meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:00 p.m.,
Wednesday, May 22, 2013, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, Charlie Rountree, David Zaremba, Keith
Bird, and Brad Hoaglun.
Others Present: Bill Nary, Jaycee Holman, Bruce Chatterton, Kyle Radek, Sonya
Watters, Scott Colaianni, Mark Niemeyer, Jay Gibbons, and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
X David Zaremba X Brad Hoaglun
X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
De Weerd: Well, I'd like to welcome you all to the Meridian City Council meeting. This
is a special meeting tonight, only because it's not on Tuesday. Although it is special
because all of you have joined us. So, thank you for being here this evening. For the
record it is Wednesday, May 22nd. It's two minutes after 7:00. We will start with roll call
attendance, Madam Clerk.
Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance
De Weerd: Item No. 2 is our pledge of allegiance. If you will all rise and join us in the
pledge to our flag.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
Item 3: Community Invocation by Michael Pearson with the Seventh Day
Adventist Church
De Weerd: And I do not see Pastor Pearson.
Item 4: Adoption of the Agenda
De Weerd: So, I will skip to the next item, Item 4, adoption of the agenda.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: A couple things for tonight's agenda. Under Consent Agenda, 5-Y, is
Resolution No. 13-924. Under Action Items we need 8-A-1 to amend onto the agenda,
Meridian City Council
May 22, 2013
Page 2 of 43
fee waiver request from applicant for MDA CZC application. Under 9-A, Department
Reports, that is Resolution No. 13-925 and we also need to add two names that came in
just after this was published, the names are Jack McGee and Pat Morandi to the
Meridian Transportation Commission. And with that, Madam Mayor, I move adoption of
the agenda as amended.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda as amended. All those
in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 5: Consent Agenda
A. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Approval: MDA 13-
007 Medina Subdivision by William & Mary Howell, Meridian
Promenade P1, LLC and Jack In the Box, Inc. Located
Southwest Comer of S. Meridian Road (SH 69) and W.
Overland Road Request: An Amendment to the Existing
Development Agreement for Medina Subdivision to Remove
the Requirement for Conditional Use Approval of all Future
Uses on Each Lot
B. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Approval: RZ 13-003
807 N. Meridian Road by LTD, LLC Located at 807 N. Meridian
Road Request: Rezone of 0.74 of an Acre from the R-8
(Medium Density Residential) to the Q..T (Old Town) Zoning
District
C. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Approval: MDA 13-
001 Bellabrook Villas (aka Brookside Square) by ZWJ
Properties, LLC Located 300 S. Locust Grove Road Request:
Modify the Existing Development Agreement to Allow for the
Development of 26 Single-Family Residential Dwelling Units on
the Site
D. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Approval: PP 13-002
Bellabrook Villas (aka Brookside Square) by ZWJ Properties,
LLC Located at 300 S. Locust Grove Road Request:
Preliminary Plat approval Consisting of 26 Single-Family
Residential Building Lots and Four (4) Common/Other Lots on
4.38 Acres of Land in an R-15 Zoning District
E. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Approval: MDA
13-004 Gramercy Pride Apartments by Sagecrest
Meridian City Council
May 22, 2013
Page 3 of 43
Development, LLC Located 2111 and 2283 S. Accolade
Avenue, Lot 9 and 26, Block 3 of Gramercy Subdivision No.1
Request: Modify the Building Elevations Approved with the
Amended Development Agreement (Instrument #108022888)
F. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP 13-
002 Gramercy Pride Apartments by Sagecrest Development,
LLC Located 2111 and 2283 S. Accolade Avenue Request:
Conditional Use Permit Approval for 18 Multi-Family Dwelling
Units on Two (2) Lots on Approximately 1.38 Acres In an
Existing R-15 Zoning District
G. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Approval: MDA 13-
008 Twelve Oaks (fka Hark's Canyon Creek Subdivision) by
ILJ, Inc. Located 1845 W. Franklin Road Request: Amendment
to the Development Agreement to Remove the Language
Pertaining to the Expired Plat and to Include a Conceptual
Development Plan for a Mixed Use Development
H. Final Order for Approval: FP 13-013 Villas at Lochsa Falls No.2
by Hayden Homes Located West Side of N. Linder Road,
Midway Between Chinden Boulevard and W. McMillan Road
Request: Final Plat Approval Consisting of Twenty-Eight (28)
Residential Lots and Three (3) Common Lots on
Approximately 4.33 Acres In an R-8 Zoning District
I. Final Order for Approval: FP 13.012 Tradewinds Subdivision
No.1 by Don Newell, SON, LLC Located Southeast Comer of E.
Victory Road and S. Locust Grove Road Request: Final Plat
Approval Consisting of 17 Building Lots and 2 Common Other
Lots on 10.42 Acres of Land Zoned R-8
J. Final Order for Approval: FP 13-014 Spurwing Orchard
Subdivision No.2 by Brighton Development, Inc. Located North
Side of Chinden Boulevard; West of N. Ten Mile Road Request:
Final Plat Approval Consisting of Fifty Four (54) Single Family
Residential Lots and Eight (8) Common/Other Lots on
Approximately 14.05 Acres in an R-•8 and R-15 Zoning District
K. Final Order for Approval: FP 13-015 Messina Meadows
Subdivision No.4 by Tuscany Development, Inc. Located North
of E. Amity Road, Midway Between S. Locust Grove Road and
S. Eagle Road Request: Final Plat Approval Consisting of 36
Single Family Residential Building Lots and Six (6) Common
Lots on Approximately 10.52 Acres of Land In an R-8 Zoning
District
Meridian City Council
May 22, 2013
Page 4 of 43
L. Final Order for Approval: FP 13-017 Red Wing Subdivision by
W.H. Moore Company Located Southeast Corner of S. Meridian
Road (SH 55) and E. Victory Road Request: Final Plat Approval
Consisting of Forty-Eight (48) Single-Family Residential and
One (1)Multi-Family Residential Building Lots and Nine (9)
Common/Other Lots on 31.11 Acres in the R-4 and R-15 Zoning
Districts
M. Final Order for Approval: FP 13-016 Zebulon Village
Subdivision by The Traditions by Amyx II, LLP Located South
of E. McMillan Road and West of N. Eagle Road Request: Final
Plat Approval Consisting of 4Q Single-Family Residential
Building Lots and Six (6) CommonlOther Lots on 14.94 Acres
in an R-4 Zoning District
N. Final Order for Approval: FP 13-019 Rushmore Subdivision by
Tealey's Land Surveying Located South of W. Pine Avenue,
West of W. Broadway Avenue Request: Final Plat Consisting
of Three (3) Multi-Family Residential Building Lots and Two (2)
Common Lots on Approximately 2.17 Acres of
Land in an R-15 Zoning District
O. Acceptance Agreement: Display of Artwork of Karyn deKramer
in Initial Point Gallery from May 31 to June 28, 2013.
P. Acceptance Agreement: Display of Artwork of Joni Frey In
Initial Point Gallery from May 31 to June 28, 2013
Q. Acceptance Agreement: Display of Artwork of Dan McAlister in
Initial Point Gallery from August 2 to August 30,2013
R. Acceptance Agreement: Display of Artwork of Sara Allen In
Initial Point Gallery from August 2 to August 30, 2013
S. Acceptance Agreement: Display of Artwork of Gertrude
Hudson in Initial Point Gallery from August 30 to September
27, 2013
T. Acceptance Agreement: Display of Artwork of the City of
Meridian Community Center Art Group in Initial Point Gallery
from September 27 to November 1, 2013
U. Acceptance Agreement: Display of Artwork of Marjorie
Reinecker In Initial Point Gallery from November 1 to
November 29, 2013
Meridian City Council
May 22, 2013
Page 5 of 43
V. Acceptance Agreement: Display of Artwork of Linda Sherrets
in Initial Point Gallery from November 1 to November 29, 2013
W. Acceptance Agreement: Display of Artwork of Sue Cervenka in
Initial Point Gallery from November 29,2013 to January 3, 2014
X. Acceptance Agreement: Display of Artwork of Candy Collins in
Initial Point Gallery from November 29, 2013 to January 3, 2014
Y. Resolution No. 13-924: A Resolution Authorizing the City Clerk
to Destroy Certain Semi-Permanent and Temporary Records of
the Meridian Police Department
De Weerd: Item 5 is our Consent Agenda.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: As just noted 5-Y is Resolution No. 13-924. I move approval of the Consent
Agenda and the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda. Madam
Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 6: Community Items/Presentations
A. May 21, 2013 Unofficial Election Results
De Weerd: Item 6-A is -- I will turn this over to our Clerk. Madam Clerk.
Holman: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is just an update on the election
results from last night regarding expanding Meridian City Council from four to six seats.
We have unofficial results that I got from the Ada County elections webpage with yes --
57.62 percent voting yes and 42.3 percent voting no. Moving forward, Ada County will
canvas these votes I believe at their May 25th meeting and, then, send us the official
copy when they have canvassed the votes. We don't have to canvas the votes at
Council meeting, but that's what their process will be moving forward.
Meridian City Council
May 22, 2013
Page 6 of 43
De Weerd: Council, any questions for Madam Clerk?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: I have none.
De Weerd: Just for those in attendance if you were curious as to next step, the vote
that was decided by our voters, our election yesterday, the two seats that will now be
added to our City Council will be elected in November during the regular elections. One
seat will be elected for a four year term and the second seat will elected for a two year
term. So, there will be three seats at each election that are being determined. So, stay
tuned. That will be, then, in November.
B. City of Meridian Scholarship Presentations
De Weerd: Our next item is my honor to recognize four outstanding seniors and this is
always when I get emotional. Certainly we had a number of applicants for the City of
Meridian scholarships and this scholarship is supported thirough the sponsorships of the
State of the City. So, these are funds that are through sponsorships by businesses in
our community. It is an investment in our youth and I will tell the four youth that we will
be recognizing here is you have invested in our community and we will greatly
appreciate that and we hope by helping to invest in your education -- now, this is not a
bribe -- but we do hope that you come back to this community after you have gone off
and pursued your education, so you can your raise your family and find your career in
this community and call it home for you and your family. Now, just to give an overview
of these scholarships, the City of Meridian is offering a thousand dollar scholarship to
four of these students who will be graduating or have graduated. I think three of them,
although, graduate on Saturday. So, I will be watching you walk across the stage.
These are based on -- these young people were selected based on criteria, including
service to others, academic merit, and personal growth as a result of community
involvement. So, as I -- I will first read a description of each of the students and, then, I
will ask the student to come forward. I won't make you stand up here the whole time
while I say wonderful things about you. So, we will start with Katherine Fleming. She is
graduating from Meridian High School. She has a 4.05 weighted GPA and is said to be
a hard worker who leads by example. She was president of the National Honor Society
and was involved in TRIO and Idaho Drug Free Youth. She was also instrumental in
bringing back her school's homecoming week activities and parade. She participated in
many volunteer activities, including the Buddy Walk, the Race for the Cure, Rake Up
Meridian, Red Cross Blood Drive, and others. She has especially been engaged in the
Meridian Food Bank Packs for Kids program. She is also active in her church's youth
ministry and lends her voice to her school's varsity choir. She will begin college in the
fall and intends to pursue a career in social work. If you will all join me in congratulating
Katherine Fleming. Now, I -- so, Katherine, you being the first, I do have just a
congratulatory certificate here that -- the check itself will be mailed to the school and I
think you already know that, but -- and I'm not even going to give this to you to take
Meridian City Council
May 22, 2013
Page 7 of 43
home, because we need to correct something on it. But this says: In recognition of
your high level of community involvement, academic merit and outstanding leadership
potential and, again, I hope you all understand there is an invitation and an expectation
to come back. So, congratulations.
(Pictures taken.)
De Weerd: Okay. Our next student is Melissa Dotts -- Goetz. Sorry, Melissa. And you
did such a -- you know, this amazing young lady -- I just have to say I recently went to
the award ceremony for the FFA and I will tell you if you have never been to one of their
award ceremonies you will have faith in the future of our country with these young
people. They run an outstanding meeting and Melissa blew my socks off. She can not
only talk really fast, but she has a great sense of humor, great presentation -- I think she
kept us all entertained all evening long. Okay. So, with that said, Melissa is also
graduating from Meridian High School, although she spent the majority of her high
school studying at Renaissance High School. Melissa will start college this fall to study
pre-veterinary science and with the goal of becoming a veterinarian. She has also
been an active member of the Meridian community through her involvement in Girl
Scouts, 4-H, the Meridian Lions Club, FFA and the National Honor Society. She excels
at horsemanship and has performed community service while serving as a teen rodeo
queen. Despite all of her extracurricular activities Melissa maintains a heavy academic
load and earned a 4.1 weighted GPA. She is said to work diligently to excel in all that
she does, is high energy, and is described by others as humble, compassionate, and
giving. If you will all join me in recognizing Melissa.
(Picture taken.)
De Weerd: Our next awardee is Mikayla Payne. She is graduating from Renaissance
High School. She is looking forward to beginning pre-med studies in biology at Idaho
State University this fall with a goal of becoming a physician or a physician's assistant.
During her school years she was involved in her school's Real Club and National Honor
Society and also assisted with both our Boise and Meridian firefighters with fundraising
activities for their burn out funds and other charitable causes. She has volunteered at a
local assisted living center and is currently completing a CNA program that will help
prepare her for future medicine. Remarkably, she is graduating from high school with a
two year associate's degree already under her belt and a 4.3 weighted GPA and as if
she wasn't busy enough with her academics, she has coached youth gymnastics for
four years at Danick Gymnastics. This is amazing and please join me in recognizing
Mikayla.
(Pictures taken.)
De Weerd: And I think that this is the first graduating class at Renaissance that is
graduating with a two year associate's degree. So, it absolutely is amazing. It's a great
program that our school district has offered to our students and being a frugal parent, I
would have appreciated that of my own youth, saving two years of college expenses.
Meridian City Council
May 22, 2013
Page 8 of 43
Now, this last one certainly -- I think several of us know Brett and he is a stand out, as
with some of his predecessors in his family and his father. But Brett Wilder is our third
graduate in this -- is our third graduate from Meridian High School and he has an
impressive history of community involvement and voluni:eerism. He graduates with a
4.03 weighted GPA and is a member of National Honor Society and has served on the
student council. He has also done volunteer work at St. AI's Festival of Trees, Kiwanis,
American Red Cross, the United Dairymen of Idaho and many other organizations. He
is proud to be part of the sixth generation of his family involved in Idaho agricultural. He
has been active in 4-H for the past 11 years and also participates in FFA and, Brett, if I
remember correctly, you're not only the president of your group this year, you were also
a state officer who will take the reigns for next year. He plans to stay in Idaho for
college to study agricultural economics and agricultural education. In the future he
hopes to work in agri business or law, with the ultimate goal of influencing public policy
as an elected official. And we just added two seats on our City Council, Brett. If you
will, please, join me in welcoming and congratulating Brett: Wilder.
(Pictures taken.)
De Weerd: I'd like to thank the parents. We certainly know that you have busy
students, but it takes a special family of support to also help our students be successful.
So, thank you -- and, see, now this is when I get emotional. This is my first year being
an empty nester, so, you know, I'm even more -- but, you know, hug those kids before
they go off to college and thank you for your investment in their future as well. Reading
all of their information I know you must be as proud as we are of these young people
and the potential they have and, again, I do hope they come back to this community and
continue to raise the bar, because we are looking forward to your leadership in this
community. So, thank you for being here.
C. Presentation of Award from the Council for the Deaf and Hard
of Hearing to the Meridian Fire Department
De Weerd: Now, our next item is a special presentation from the Council for the Deaf
and Hard of Hearing to the Meridian Fire Department for a very special program that
they have and so, chief, I will have you introduce this. I probably should have turned
the podium, but I would appreciate it if you would turn it around again. It takes someone
smarter than the podium.
Niemeyer: I'm not going to live down that a Public Works guy just figured this out.
De Weerd: I will make certain to let our Public Works director know this one.
Niemeyer: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, it is my honor to invite Executive
Director Snow to the podium. He is the executive director of the Council on the Deaf
and Hard of Hearing. So, I'd like to introduce him at this time.
Snow: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, it is my great honor to be with you
Meridian City Council
May 22, 2013
Page 9 of 43
tonight. I really enjoy this setting. I often speak at the legislature and I really like the
down home feel that you provide in this venue, so thank you for the invite. It's my
pleasure to be with you tonight to present this award. First of all, I'd like to describe for
you kind of who I am and what I do, so you have a larger picture of that. The Council
for the Deaf and Hard of Hearing is a nine appointed member board, appointed by the
governor, and our Council is a small state agency, which you may have not ever heard
of and it's probably because of our size. We are one of the smaller agencies out there.
DHH is statutorily mandated to work collaboratively with the other state agencies,
government organizations and businesses to promote and develop public policy, to
promote systemic change by enhancing the quality of life for deaf and hard of hearing
people in our state of Idaho. In fact, in Idaho throughout the state there are 150,000
deaf or hard of hearing people. It's a huge statistic. And, unfortunately, many of them
are overlooked because we don't quote, unquote, look deaf or hard of hearing. We
focus on a variety of things, such as education, housing, employment, and public safety.
Throughout all of these different focal points that we have we try to look at how to
holistically improve the quality of life for deaf people across the state. One important
facet that we do is public safety. The deaf and hard of hearing community is often the
very last to receive help in times of emergency and that's nationwide and that's because
we are overlooked, we don't look disabled so to speak. Another reason is because
there is less media exposure to us. We don't know wha1:'s being said on the radio and
TV in times of emergency. We simply don't hear it, so we don't have access to it and as
serious situations happen to our community with regard to emergencies, specifically to
fire. Let me briefly tell you something that happened in the City of Eagle in 2006 or '7.
There was a family who had -- the husband was deaf, the wife was deaf, they had a
small daughter and the wife was pregnant. They all four died in a house fire, because
they weren't aware that the house was fire. There were alarms in the house, but they
were alarms that were only auditory alarms and the four of them did pass. Last year a
faculty advisor at Gallaudet University, a very great friend of mine, who is deaf, and her
daughter, who is deaf, died in a house fire. They also, likewise, had alarms in their
house, smoke detectors, but they weren't adapted for people who are deaf and when
equipment isn't there to provide that alarm or that alert lives are lost. The Council for
the Deaf and Hard of Hearing is always looking for agencies or organizations who have
gone out of their way to improve public safety. For example, the Idaho Bureau of
Homeland Security has been fantastic. With regard to that tonight I'd like to specifically
honor the Meridian Fire Department. The Meridian Fire Department has taken a huge
step forward, great initiative to establish a program of the acronym SAFE, S-A-F-E,
Smoke Alarms For Everyone. That program has taken time, commitment and
resources, including financial resources, to establish and to administer to provide
equipment to people throughout the City of Meridian who have a deaf or hard of hearing
person in their home to protect them in case of fire. That program is the first and only
program for deaf and hard of hearing people throughout: the entire state and it's right
here and we applaud and commend the Meridian Fire Department for their dedication
and their interest in saving the lives of citizens here who are deaf and hard of hearing.
Now, my personal observation is when there is a deaf event and Meridian's fire
department shows up with these alarms, the deaf community stops the party and comes
over to their table and says sign me up, I want to feel safe in my home. I have seen it
Meridian City Council
May 22, 2013
Page 10 of 43
happen. I realize my own personal home is not up to date. My wife and I are both deaf.
We have children and I thought, holy cow, I need to get myself signed up for this and
not just let other people have access to this. I mean who knows what would happen --
knock on wood. Thank you to the fire department here in Meridian. Because of
Meridian Fire Department they are now a model and are setting precedent that other
departments are beginning to follow the steps that have taken place here in the City of
Meridian and I encourage people who call me frequently and say just follow Meridian
Fire Department's model and do there what's happening here. I will now show you the
award that I'm presenting and read it to you. Excellence award presented to the
Meridian Fire Department in recognition of their excellent commitment to the safety of
Idaho's deaf and hard of hearing population by providing fire and smoke detection
devices, from the Idaho Council on Deaf and Hard of Hearing, May 2013. Madam
Mayor, Council Members, I am glad to recognize the Meridian Fire Department with this
award on behalf of the Council on Deaf and Hard of Hearing.
Niemeyer: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Director Snow on behalf of the Fire
Department, we thank you for this honor and it truly is an honor knowing that we are
protecting all of our citizens with this fire safety program. I would like to take one
moment, Madam Mayor, if I might, to bring up somebody who really is the driving force
behind this. So, Pam, if you could come up here, please. I know you don't like this kind
of stuff, but I'm bringing you up anyway. While she's coming up I will tell you a little
story I had. One of our fire department members -- she's known as the real chief of the
department -- she said one day our fire department is a lot like a football team, we have
offense, we have defense, sometimes the offense plays defense and the defense plays
offense and if those two sides are not working well together we don't have a very good
functioning team and I thought about that, went in my office and the first thing I thought
of was the Cleveland Browns -- or the Idaho Vandals. One of the two. But it truly is a --
that's agood statement to make and, indeed, in fire service we do have offense and we
have defense and the offense are the guys and the gals that you see driving down the
road to go to fight that fire or help somebody that's having a heart attack or go cut a car
to get somebody out of the car. But equally important is our defense side of the ball and
that's our prevention division and the work that the men and women do in the prevention
division is trying to protect all of you before that event happens and so in our fire
department we need both sides of that ball working well together and working hard and
with this program -- this program was entirely Pam Orr. She's our public education
specialist. We sent her back to Washington D.C. for some training and education and
she came back and her and her boss Deputy Chief Perry Palmer, who is our prevention
chief, came into my office and they said, chief, we got a program we have got to tell you
about and I thought, oh, okay, went to Washington D.C., what are we going to hear.
And as soon as I heard it I knew this was a great program, it's something we are going
to carry on for a long time. And so truly I want to pass this plaque off to Pam. This was
your effort. The men and women of our department that went out and installed those
smoke detectors did a great job, the volunteers that we got from local businesses the
graduates from our academy at the police department, all the hard work really paid off
and so I give this to you.
Meridian City Council
May 22, 2013
Page 11 of 43
De Weerd: Well, we certainly appreciate, Mr. Snow, that you have joined us tonight. I
apologize that I didn't have -- oh. I apologize that I didn't have you introduce your son.
Snow: Oh. My bad. This is my son Zachery Snow. He in a Boy Scout program right
now. He's earning a badge to observe City Council government and so why not do it
tonight.
De Weerd: Well, Zachery, I see that you're very proud of your father, so thank you for
joining us tonight. And very eloquently said, Mr. Snow, on your presentation of the
dedication of our fire department to our entire community. We do know that we have a
growing number of hearing -- impaired. Sorry. But we do want to make sure that we
are able to give tools to all of our citizens to give us extra time to make sure that they
are safe and that their property is protected. So, thank you for joining us here tonight.
Item 7: Items Moved From Consent Agenda
De Weerd: Okay. There were no items were moved from the Consent Agenda.
Item 8: Action Items
A. Public Hearing: MDA 13-009 Walmart Overland/Stoddard by
Wal-Mart Stores, Inc. Located Southeast Corner of W.
Overland Road and S. Stoddard Road Request: Modification to
the Development Agreement to Change the Fencing Type
Along the Southern Boundary of the Site from Eight (8) Feet
Tall Vinyl to Eight (8) Feet Tall Pre-Cast Concrete
1. Amended onto the Agenda: Fee Waiver Request from
Applicant for MDA and CZC Applications•
De Weerd: So, we will move to Item A under Action Items. Item 8-A is a public hearing
on MDA 13-009. I will open this public hearing with staff comments.
Wafters: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. The application before
you tonight is a request for a development agreement modification for the Walmart. The
property is located on the southeast corner of South Stoddard Road and West Overland
Road. The applicant requests a modification to the development agreement to change
the type of fencing material along the southern boundary of the site adjacent to the
residences in Bear Creek Subdivision from an eight foot tall vinyl to an eight foot tall
precast concrete fence. The fence is proposed to be constructed as close as possible
to the existing Bear Creek Subdivision fence. The applicant also requests a temporary
certificate of occupancy be issued prior to the fence being installed, because of time
constraints involved in ordering and constructing the concrete fence. As you can see on
the site plan here the red arrow is the southern boundary of the site where the fence is
proposed. Written testimony was received from Ron Sumner, an adjacent resident. He
requested that the development agreement modification be denied unless Walmart
agrees to remove the existing vinyl fence and replace it with the precast concrete fence
Meridian City Council
May 22, 2013
Page 12 of 43
and join all existing residential properties dividing the fences with the new fence. The
only outstanding for Council -- outstanding issue for Council tonight is the applicant
requests a fee waiver in accord with UDC 11-5A-7B for application fees for the subject
development agreement modification and subsequent modifications to the certificate of
zoning compliance and design review application. Staff is recommending approval of
the proposed development agreement modification and staff will stand for any questions
Council may have.
De Weerd: Thank you, Sonya. Any questions from City Council?
Bird: I have none at this time.
Rountree: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. If someone would turn the podium around before we ask the
applicant to come forward. Just protecting you just in case you didn't know how to do it.
Good evening. If you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
Butler: Okay. JoAnn Butler. 251 East Front Street in Boise, representing the applicant.
I have got a couple of handouts for Council that -- some of which we provided to the
neighbors at a neighborhood meeting and I will give a copy to -- those are great
presentations. First of all, the Council and staff are very familiar with the history of this
particular project and property, but I will repeat it just briefly, because I know there are
members in the audience here, some of which I recognize from our neighborhood
meeting, but some I don't. First of all, this started out -- this property started out towards
development in 2007. You might remember a Mr. James Prather and Queensland
Acres came to the City Council for retail development approval and his request was
approved and subject to a development agreement. He came back a couple of years
later in 2009 to amend the development agreement. One condition of that development
agreement was that Mr. Prather was to replace, if he received all the property owners'
consent adjacent on the south side, he was to replace the existing vinyl fence with an
eight foot vinyl fence. Mr. Prather didn't go forward with his development and our client
stepped into his shoes in 2011 and we applied to the city for a revised site plan and
revision to the development agreement. Really, the revisions to the site plan were to
literally turn the store so it didn't back into Bear Creek Subdivision and also for
enhanced landscaping along the south property line. In 2011 we worked with our
neighbors to see if we could comply with the condition of approval in the development
agreement. Could we get everybody's permission to replace the fence along the
property line. Based on more than one neighborhood meeting and several
communications going back and forth between your staff and us and neighbors, we
weren't able to get a consensus on whether or not the fence should be replaced,
whether or not -- the height of the fence, anything. And so we came back to the City
Council asking to have our site plan approved as staff had recommended and staff
actually had recommended no additional fence, just the enhanced landscaping, but the
Council asked us at that time to try one more time, to take some time, another 30 days,
and go back to the neighbors and see if we could get the neighbors to agree. I think
Meridian City Council
May 22, 2013
Page 13 of 43
you will remember that that didn't happen and we weren't able to do it, so the Council
did finally say, okay, we want you to go forward, but we do want you to put up the eight
foot vinyl fence along the -- on your property as close as possible. So, today, now a
couple years later, construction is nearly complete. At the request of the city Walmart is
proposing to modify this development agreement to substitute the vinyl fence. We
appreciated all that the neighbors had to say to us in our neighborhood meeting and to
the City Council and especially to the Mayor and we are seeking to substitute an eight
foot precast concrete fence in place of the vinyl fence. That's not attached to the
development agreement that I know of with your staff -- with your report and what I have
provided to you tonight with apacket -- and what we provided to the neighbors at our
neighborhood meeting are pictures of the precast concrete fence, which is stamped on
both sided. It's a -- and I actually have a sample with me, too, if you would like to look
at it. But the neighbors did look at it at our neighborhood meeting in early April and --
and we had a long discussion and the consensus of the neighbors at that meeting was,
yes, they liked the fence and they wanted us to go forward with the precast concrete
fence and we were pleased to do so. So, since we have made application there have
been a couple of questions that your staff received via a-mails and we provided
answers to those questions. Ron Sumner was -- who was not at the neighborhood
meeting, so I wouldn't recognize him from the -- form the audience if he's here, but he
did submit some questions for staff and we replied to them. He also submitted today a
letter, which I have provided you a copy of the letter and I wanted to go over that -- that
copy of the letter that he sent refers to the Walmart store at Fairview and Eagle Road,
so I provided to you on the second page the site plan for that store at Eagle and --
Eagle and Fairview. And, finally, the third picture is a picture of the Stoddard and
Overland site as we were starting construction and it shows the fence along the south
side of the property. Mr. Sumner in his letter he was concerned about there being two
fences, but the situation in Eagle and Fairview is not the same as we have here and
that's why I provided you the site plan. The fence at Eagle and Fairview is built on the
property line and it was the neighbors -- residential neighbors to the south that built their
fences not quite to our -- it was a gap that was created -- that small gap was created by
the neighbors, because they didn't build all the way to the fence line. At our Stoddard
site, because the gap would be on Walmart's property, as we told the neighbors at the
neighborhood meeting, we would be laying down seed barrier fabric to keep that -- the
weeds at bay -- anything at bay. What you -- what you saw -- well, the reason I
provided that picture of the site prior to construction, just as we were getting started with
the construction, is what you can you see is people are putting lawn waste over the
fence onto their adjacent property and if that practice doesn't continue, I think the weed
barrier will do just fine and will prevent that from happening. Mr. Sumner, who I -- as I
mention he wasn't at the neighborhood meeting, so he doesn't have the benefit of some
of the -- some of the discussion from that neighborhood meeting and to our knowledge
he doesn't represent the neighbors along that -- our southern border, but he's asked you
to deny the modification unless Walmart apparently -- at Walmart cost -- I guess that's
his implication -- removes the existing vinyl fence and ties all of the side lot lines to the
existing fence. We hope you don't deny the modification, but if you did deny the
modification as requested, obviously, we would be back to the 2011 decision and we
can live with that. But we are happy to go forward with the precast concrete fence and
Meridian City Council
May 22, 2013
Page 14 of 43
the discussion I'm referring to that Mr. Sumner may not know that we discussed at the
neighborhood meeting is that we did tell our neighbors that if they wanted to -- we
suggested that they hire acivil -- civil engineer and/or a surveyor -- somebody that
could advise them as to what -- what legally would be required for them to take down
their fence and extend their lot lines and -- to the fence that Walmart would put up and
Walmart was absolutely willing to listen to any reasonable proposal from the neighbors
that they collectively came up with. But it would at this point have to be at the
neighbors' time and cost. We have tried -- and I know this Council has tried repeatedly
to try to pull a consensus together of the neighbors and that hasn't happened today, but
-- so we -- you know, we are just about finished with the construction -- the construction
of the fence has to happen now if it's going to happen at all and so we hope that we can
go forth and get that done for the city and for our neighbors And, again, we will -- if the
neighbors can collectively come together with any kind of a proposal that is reasonable
to take down that fence, extend their lot lines, we are more than happy to listen to that.
So, we are asking you to, respectfully, approve the application this evening. As staff
mentioned, we are also asking the Council to refund the application fee for the 2013
application. You know, the applications were made after we received land use
entitlements and after we received building permits and we are being asked to install
about 1,300 feet -- linear feet of precast concrete fence, which is a very large expense.
So, again, we are asking for that refund, along with the approval tonight. And I will
answer any questions or go through the development agreement modifications. I knew
that your staff has looked at it closely, but if you need me to review that with you I would
be happy to.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Council, any questions?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Just a comment. You have put it very gently, but I don't remember whether it
was under the current ownership or the previous ownership. There have been many
many attempts to get that whole line of neighbors to agree on something and we have
gotten to this point, because some of them just aren't going to agree to anything and
some of them would let you come on their property to help take their fence off if you
sign certain liability waivers and all that sort of stuff. So, I think what we have come to is
probably about the only thing that can be done there. I guess my question would be --
you have said that there won't be the kind of gap that shows in the picture of the -- the
other Walmart, but I'm just thinking how do you construct that. There is probably going
to end up being some gap, even if it's six inches or so and I guess my question is would
it be possible or wise that every hundred feet or so put a door or a gate or something in
this fence that would allow some access if there were an emergency need to get into
that space or -- or is there really going to be no space?
Butler: That's misleading. There will be a gap because there has to be -- there are
footings for this. concrete fence, so there will be a gap. The gap is on Walmart property.
Meridian City Council
May 22, 2013
Page 15 of 43
Unlike the picture that shows where that gap is not Walmart property. So, Walmart will
maintain its property. That's why I said that they will lay down weed barrier and also --
they also talked about using environmentally friendly herbicides in that area that can
maintain it. I don't know the answer to how it can -- I personally don't know how it can
be constructed in that gate kind of fashion, but as we are listening to some public
testimony tonight I can place a call to the civil engineer and see if I can quickly get a
answer to that question for the Council tonight. If there is anything that -- we'd
appreciate your comments.
De Weerd: Well -- and I would agree with that, because you lay a weed barrier down
and weeds grow on top of it and maybe they won't come up through it, but with
sediment in the air and all of that, it provides a nice little area for weeds to grow. So, I
would be curious, too, as to how they would maintain that. So, would appreciate while
we take public testimony that you see what you can find.
Butler: Will do.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions from Council at this point?
Rountree: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. This is a public hearing and if you signed up when I call
your name if you would like to provide testimony at that time, please, come forward.
Robert Leonard. Welcome. If you will, please, state your name and address for the
record.
Leonard: My name is Robert Leonard and I live at 636 West Davenport.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Leonard: Okay. I want to thank the Mayor and City Council for this time and I know
there has been a lot of effort by certain people here to come up into the neighborhood,
look at the neighborhood and we really appreciate that effort and my only concern is --
and it's very simple and it sounds like it's going to happen, is that this wall be put up, it's
a sound abatement wall, it will make livability much better than we have today and as
far as anything else, I could care less. I just want to see the wall, because it's a big
expense to the people to put it in and I'm very grateful for that. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you so much. Ron Sumner. Good evening. If you will, please, state
your name and address for the record.
Sumner: My name is Ron Sumner. I live at 498 West Davenport Street. And I
appreciate your time and attendance tonight. Certainly appreciate the comments that
David had regarding the potential for safety, because although I also am encouraged to
have Walmart want to put in a much -- better quality fence, I am extremely concerned
about having the city recognize and honor building an obvious severe safety hazard. If
Meridian City Council
May 22, 2013
Page 16 of 43
a child were to get back there there is no way to get out and he would die. This is not
something that anybody I would think would ever want to approve. And even if Walmart
had to physically come to all the homeowners along that row and request that they want
to remove the fence, I think they would get a hundred percent approval. Nobody has
ever came down and talked to all of the homeowners from Walmart or from any of the
development site. So, I encourage you to put a stipulation in their agreement that says
Walmart can build their concrete fence and be honored to do so if they will remove the
old fence. Do not create a safety hazard.
De Weerd: Any questions from Council?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I appreciate the concern that you have and we have had this concern from
the start and it has come up many times during the conversation and I hear you say that
you believe all of the other homeowners would agree to it, but that hasn't been our
experience. The reports that come back to us, not only from the developers that have
been in this project along the way, but also from representatives of your homeowners
association, they have come and testified previously that they couldn't get any
agreement among your neighbors and I share your concern, but the difficulty is I don't
think it's as easy as you're making it sound to get agreement among your neighbors that
we can force the developer to come on their property and remove the fence.
Sumner: Well, that may be true. The cost of even one accident is something that I
don't want to bear the rest of my life, even though I don't have that much more of my life
to go. Walmart claims that they are going to build the fence entirely on their property. If
that's the case are they willing to sign a document where they abandon all the property
to the south of their fence and allow the homeowners -- without having to go hire civil
engineers and surveyors to come out and figure out where in the heck the property line
is at. That's insane. If they would say we abandon that property after the fence is built,
you're free to do whatever you want over there, then, I will extend to the wall my fence
and remove my back wall. I do not want to have that safety hazard on my property. I
would not sleep well at night knowing I did that or allowed that to happen. And I don't
think the Council would sleep well knowing they allowed that to happen. No matter
what they have to do to make it happen. I thank you for your time.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Zaremba: Thank you.
De Weerd: Lori McBride signed up for. Good evening. If you will, please, state your
name and address for the record.
McBride: Lori McBride. I live at 2361 South Ice Bear Way, also in Bear Creek. I'm also
Meridian City Council
May 22, 2013
Page 17 of 43
representing Terry Honeycutt, who lives at 612 Davenport, right along that. So, those
are my parents and they are unable to be here.
De Weerd: Thank you, Lori.
McBride: So, I will speak for both of us.
De Weerd: Okay.
McBride: You know, I just want to address a couple things. First, I just want to address
Walmart's request. I know this is none of my business, but in regard to the request to
waive the fees. You know, I was one of the groups that begged Walmart to take
another look at that wall and I feel like they have gone above and beyond expense wise
and time wise to come up with another fence, as opposed to that vinyl fence and they
are doing that on our behalf, because we begged them to do that and it's not that they
are coming to you with a new proposal because it benefits Walmart, they are coming to
you for a new proposal because we asked them to. So, I did, you know, hear her
request that and I would like to speak on their behalf in regards to that. In regards to
the wall, obviously, I love the wall, but I as well do have concerns just about that space.
I'm like Ron, I totally understand what he's saying, I don't think that that's Walmart's job
to remove our fences, but I think that we should be allowed to remove our fence. It's for
the safety of our kids. There is a lot of kids back there. Again, I love the fence, but I
think we should be allowed to remove our fences. The other thing was -- you know,
she mentions often the previous meetings that Walmart had with us and at the last
meeting we were told that it would be our homeowners responsibility to maintain that
space. They were adamant that they would not be maintaining that space, with the
exception of applying a weed abatement, you know, paper. So, if that's the case, I
either would prefer something in writing saying that that's going to be Walmart's problem
to maintain or that we have something in writing saying that the homeowners have
access -- can access that property in order to maintain it, which, again, would probably
mean being able to take down our vinyl fences, so that we can make sure it's not weedy
and full of rats for our kids playing in the back yard. I think that's it. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, Lori. Terry Honeycutt signed up for. Okay. Okay. Thank you
so much. Those were the four people that signed up. Is there anyone else who would
like to offer comment on this? I didn't mean to twist your arm. If you will, please, state
your name and address for the record.
Pettengill: Ray Pettengill. I live at 464 West Davenport Street.
De Weerd: I'm sorry, can you just say your name one more time?
Pettengill: Ray Pettengill.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Meridian City Council
May 22, 2013
Page 18 of 43
Pettengill: Okay. Appreciate this opportunity to talk. I do support the wall as it is drawn
up now. The vinyl fence would never have flown in the first place and that, but like all
the others, there is a concern of the space in between, but it would be small. But I
believe that space is not ours, it belongs to Walmart. If I'm wrong then -- and they are
liable for that space in between, so -- but we do have an alternative as an option to go in
to coop that space into our own property. So, I think from the last meeting I think
everything went well. We finally got a consensus amongst, you know, the neighbors
that they love the wall and that, even though, you know, there is some problems, but we
have an option to take care of it ourself and that. So, I'm in favor of the wall. as it stands
and I think it's going to go through anyways, but just like to, you know, put my two cents
worth in there and say that let's just proceed and finish it and get this thing done and,
then, we can finish what we need to do as far as neighbors and, you know, helping our
neighborhood out in keeping our property values up and that. I appreciate it. Thank
you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: There is a question.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor -- Ray, I do have a question for you. I just want to make sure I
understand correctly. I heard JoAnn say, you know, if you took down your fence and
maintained that property, you could go and get a civil engineer and make sure of --
survey the property line and, then, you could work out a deal that I would assume it
would become your property. But I heard you say that you could take down your fence,
maintain the property, and it's still Walmart property, but you can take down your fence
and take care of it and they are fine with that.
Pettengill: No, I didn't --
Hoaglun: Okay. I wanted to make sure.
Pettengill: I did talk about, okay, is it a fact that we would have to hire our own --
whatever. You know, civil engineer or whatever to, basically, map it out and, then,
basically, they would cede it over to the owner. Which would relieve them of their
liability of that -- that piece of property, but even though, as Mr. Sumner said, you know,
he feels a responsibility, but the liability for that little piece of ground right now belongs
to Walmart, if I understand it right.
Hoaglun: Correct. No. You're right. I just want to make sure I heard you correctly,
because it was a little different than what JoAnn said, but you set me straight on that,
so --
Pettengill: But we do have an option to, basically, obtain that ground.
Meridian City Council
May 22, 2013
Page 19 of 43
Hoaglun: Okay. Thank you, Ray. Appreciate it.
De Weerd: I do have a question as well and I meant to ask it of any of the previous
ones, but who -- I don't know if we have ever gotten an answer to who owns that fence.
Do you guys own the fence or does your HOA?
Pettengill: The individual property owner.
De Weerd: Okay.
Pettengill: There was some misrepresentation and the whole process is really muddied
-- muddled. About --
De Weerd: I know. We have heard all of that. So, that's why I'd just ask if we had
determined who the owners were.
Pettengill: Okay.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. I would need you on the record, so -- but if --
Pettengill: Okay. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you so much, Ray. Okay. Any further testimony? Okay. Yes,
please. Good evening.
Allen: Good evening. My name is Shane Allen at 730 West Davenport.
De Weerd: Thank you, Shane.
Allen: I just really wanted to speak to voice everybody's concerns about the safety
issue. I do appreciate the fact that Walmart has gone back and proposed a concrete
wall. I think they could have forced our hand and just put up the vinyl fence and let it
be. But I just wanted to -- you know, as a new member of the community I think there is
actually several of us that are new on that street, so using that historical information
about meetings that have been had in 2007, 2009, 2011, that didn't involve many of the
new homeowners of that street, so I just want that to be known and on record that there
are a lot of new homeowners on that street that don't have the history there and now we
are having to deal with the potential issue -- a safety issue of -- you know, I have small
kids and I agree with -- with Ron, I believe, what he is stating is, you know, if my four
year old got stuck behind there who knows if he could get out or not. I mean he's pretty
crafty, but I don't know -- I don't know that he could scale the wall. But I do believe it is
a concern, not only to the kids, but even animals, because there is a common area, a
pump house. I live right where that -- where the wall kind of comes at an angle towards
Stoddard and so there is a common area there where there is a pump house and, you
know, animals -- dogs could go in there and get stuck, you know, if the dog got turned --
or couldn't get turned around. It all depends on the space that's going to be between
Meridian City Council
May 22, 2013
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our fence and the concrete wall. So, I just wanted to voice my -- my opinion of the
safety concern that I have with -- with the others.
De Weerd: Thank you very much. Any further testimony? Okay. JoAnn.
Butler: JoAnn Butler. First of all, just to -- to first talk about maintenance of that gap,
that is -- that would be Walmart property that is up to us to maintain and so if somebody
heard that we were suggesting that the neighbors had to maintain it, that was not --
every property owner has to maintain their own and we would as well, so -- and with
regard to the concept of having the homeowners -- I had this issue in my -- in my
personal home when we moved into a lot that abutted a couple of neighbors and the lot
line was wrong. The fence -- the fence was off from the actual lot line. And so what we
did is we -- we had a surveyor actually create a legal description for what were sort of
triangular pieces for each neighbor and, then, get it to the neighbors so we could kind of
clean up the lot line and that's what we are talking about here. Lori McBride says that
she is determined that the -- since the fence is owned not by the homeowners
association, but each individual lot owner -- that would be great, but we'd still have to
deal with each individual lot owner and they would have to provide a legal description
for that little piece, so that we could actually do that and we wouldn't want to do that.
We wouldn't want to abandon the property, we would want to deed it. We wouldn't want
to abandon the property, we would want to give it to somebody so they -- they had it
and so on. So, it would need to go through that exercise and so each property owner
would have to go through that exercise and, obviously, that's if everybody does it all --
all together. And that would allow them to, then, remove the fence. I would not -- you
know, if people just removed their fence and, then, used that part that wasn't their
property, you could run into -- it could become a law school exam. And so you don't
want to do that. You want to make it nice and clean and something deeded over to
people, so that they have that access and it becomes part of their property. So, we
hope that they can do that, work together, host this and -- and as I said, we will listen to
any proposal. I did have the opportunity -- I appreciate everybody's concerns about
maintenance and safety and so I was able to reach Nick Taylor, who some of you know,
from Pack Land and he has been before the Council before and he said, yes, they --
probably there is a way to put a door in there, so that, you know, periodically or every so
often access could be gained there. So, what I would suggest is if the development
agreement as you have it is generally fine, that last exhibit to -- that was on the screen
that had the fence, that one that is attached to the development agreement, I would
suggest that we -- we hold that until we can bring a revised drawing to staff for staff to
review and to provide that -- or attach that to the development agreement. That should
address those concerns, so that Walmart can get in there and continue that
maintenance.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Before you go on -- and I will let you go on, but since I raised that subject
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May 22, 2013
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myself, I will comment on it again. To me that would only work if the current property
owners fences stayed in place. If -- if they remove their fence, then, having a door or a
gate in it isn't as good an idea.
De Weerd: Yeah. No one is going to want that door behind their house.
Zaremba: Yeah. So, I am having --
Butler: Well, one of the things the civil engineer said to me was it would have to be a
locked door.
Zaremba: Oh, absolutely.
Butler: And, I don't know, but I'm imagining it made of material that is the fence material
somehow, so that you're not having an esthetic problem as well where -- because
somebody was thinking they don't want a door that anybody can walk through or can
see through that, you know, may be an issue. But I would imagine it being somehow
made out of the same material.
Zaremba: If I may, Madam Mayor, that the second thought on that would be if there is
going to be a door and if the original fences are going to stay in place, I might suggest
making that gap a little bigger. Maybe it's 18 inches. Then if you had to use the door to
retrieve a dog or a child you would have room to do that. Just I thought. I don't want to
redesign your project, but --
Butler: And I appreciate the thought. Probably a ripple effect there with the landscaping
and everything else, but --
De Weerd: Okay.
Zaremba: Just throwing out ideas.
Butler: Appreciate it.
De Weerd: Any other questions from Council?
Butler: And Idon't -- I think I answered --
De Weerd: Not to make it more complicated, please.
Butler: And I think I have answered -- I think I have answered most of the issues, I
hope, that the people -- that folks raised.
De Weerd: Okay.
Butler: So, we are willing to work with staff to, you know, look at that design and bring
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May 22, 2013
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that back. It would be -- it would happen fairly quickly, because of the ongoing
construction. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Sumner: Can I approach the table again?
De Weerd: Yes. But, then, JoAnn will have to approach again.
Sumner: Again, my name is Ron Sumner and first I'd like to say that back when Prather
owned that property and he was talking the development, he was going to replace the
existing fence with his fence. So, it's only since Walmart has came on the scene that
this dual fence has become an issue. That's a recent thing. Not something that's been
going on for many many years. Secondly, putting a door in that fence -- albeit it would
have to be locked -- would do absolutely nothing to resolve the safety hazards. If a
child fell back there, hopefully you would be able to go find somebody that had a key to
unlock that door within the next day to get that kid out. That is insane. It just does
nothing to do that. Third point. Walmart seems to think that they can throw back onto
the homeowners the necessity to go get a surveyor to redraw a plat map, rather than
use the plat map that are on file with the city to figure out some way to deed a little strip
of property, instead of leaving a spite strip. All of this appears that they keep wanting to
delegate it back to the homeowners who had nothing to do with this development. We
are on the bad end of the stick all the way through. We have had homes that were
severely damaged by the construction. Now they are getting damaged again by this
fence and how they want to install it.
De Weerd: Ron, I think that -- and I will ask our attorney to correct me if I'm wrong, but
in order to transfer title you have to have a survey.
Sumner: I don't want --
De Weerd: Well --
Sumner: All I want is they say you have use of the property up to that fence. I don't
care who owns it. I don't want to own it.
De Weerd: Okay. Sir -- but my point is -- is if they are liable for their property and now
it's open to your backyard and something happens on that piece of property, they are
liable and I understand why they wouldn't want that liability, so --
Sumner: Then they should pay for the survey necessary to get it done and not buying
into the safety hazard that's going to live there until somebody gets hurt.
De Weerd: Okay.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor, I have a question for Sonya.
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May 22, 2013
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De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I'm trying to recollect -- did Mr. Prather finish that process? I know he started
that and, then, had sold that or the bank took it back, but I remember some discussion
about a fence and was it that time we couldn't get the neighbors to agree, as well as the
next time we couldn't get all the neighbors on board? Can you -- do you have a
recollection of that better than I do?
Watters: Yes. Madam Mayor, Councilman Hoaglun, Councilmen, back in 2009 Mr.
Prather came in and amended the development agreement. He was trying to cut costs
at the time and change the fencing materials from a concrete wall to an eight foot tall
white vinyl fence and Mr. Sumner is correct, they did -- he did agree to replace the
existing fence. However, we went -- we went around and around with the property
owners, the HOA, trying to get consent from everyone to replace the fence and we
could not get consent from every property owner, which is what is needed in order to do
that.
Hoaglun: Great. Thank you. That was my recollection that we agreed to that, that it
would be replaced, but the homeowners objected, so that didn't take place then and we
tried again with Walmart, so here we are again, so -- okay. Thank you.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Any questions for Mr. Sumner?
Bird: That's what Iwas -- Ron, is your fence on your property at the edge of the
property line? Are you inset or what?
Sumner: To the best of my knowledge that fence is on the property line.
Bird: To the best of your knowledge or -- from peg to peg you're right on the line? You
should have pegs back there to -- that determines your deal.
Sumner: If there are pegs back there -- I have never looked for them.
Bird: Okay.
Sumner: I have owned the property now for three and a half years and never had
occasion to look for them.
Bird: But if you're on there and if Walmart builds up to theirs and I think all they are
going to have off of their -- the property line is part of a foundation, which maybe will be
two or three inches, it's not a very big gap back there. Well, I don't like any gaps, but
we are not -- we don't have a -- I don't see a gap like that if you guys are on your
property line and it fits on their property line.
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May 22, 2013
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Sumner: If Walmart would agree
property line and they could certify,
and do what I need to. If they will
line, that might be a viable answer.
Bird: Okay.
Sumner: Thank you.
Bird: Thank you.
to build that fence immediately on the edge of their
that's not a problem. Then I can take it from there
stipulate that -- if they do not inset on their property
De Weerd: Thank you. I promise this is the last time.
Butler: I don't know if there is much more to add. I think that we have designed it so
that we are as close as possible, because I think that was the Council's direction to us
to make that as close as possible. And other than that no other -- further --
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: JoAnn, what is close as possible? How big -- how big is your footings?
Butler: And Ithink -- I was just looking for the scale. I don't have a very large --
Bird: I can't read it here, so --
Butler: It's very -- and I will pick up on Councilman Zaremba's -- I will just throw
something else on the table to make it more complicated maybe. One of the things that
we can always do is go back to the original staff recommendation, which was to leave
the vinyl fence and just enhance the landscape, but there wouldn't be two fences.
We will try to figure this out internal to the site and -- all of us are in need of cheaters
and I'm going to make a quick call to the engineer and see if I can find an answer as
well. If that's okay with the Council.
De Weerd: I don't know if it's all that important if it's three inches or six inches or if you
can build it on the line. Council?
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Just a comment. I want to lay out the options as I see them that we have for
Council. We are being requested to modify the developer's agreement to replace a
vinyl fence with a concrete fence. That would -- there would be some gap of some sort
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with the concrete fence because of the footers. If we denied that it will be the vinyl
fence, which can be much closer to the original fence, but the neighbors don't want that.
They want the concrete fence. One option that's not on the table for me is the city doing
a taking or a -- coming in and forcing the homeowners to accept a fence on the property
line, because that's not something we do and if your government that does that I'd be
very afraid. So, if your government comes in and says, sorry, we don't care what you
think, we are going to take this, because it's -- that's not a good way to approach things.
We tried to do the collaborative approach and it just hasn't worked with the neighbors.
don't know why, but it hasn't, and I think we even have the option of saying, fine,
neighbors, no fence at all. You guys take care of your fence. That way there is no -- no
script, nothing. So, out of all those options I don't think any of them are what I heard
from some of the neighbors tonight. So, that's our options. I don't think Walmart is
going to the extra expense to put in this concrete fence, they come back after studying
the vinyl fence, recognize that -- and that was one of my questions and she answered
Walmart will maintain -- do the maintenance in there, not the neighbors. I don't have a
problem with -- and they are willing to title that over to the homeowners and it's not
going to be a big expense, why wouldn't -- why wouldn't the homeowners do that? And
to say, oh, you know, we know you get done the fencing and you're going to this added
expense and all this, Ijust -- I can't even go there, so -- but the option's before us.
Concrete or vinyl. So, it doesn't leave us with many options, although I have identified
two more and that's no fence or a taking, which is not going to happen for me, so --
Wafters: Madam Mayor, if I may. Another option -- and I don't know if they would want
to go there -- but another option maybe to give the abutting property owners a date, you
know, by this Friday or whatever to turn in a consent, you know -- and it has to be
unanimous -- to replace their existing fence. You know, Councilman Hoaglun
questioned me before on that and I don't know that it was necessarily that the property
owners did not want the fence replaced, but they -- they weren't in agreement as to
what kind of fence they wanted. They had sent around a petition on -- you know, would
you like this or would you like -- you know, would you like this. Would you be in favor of
this. And they threw out other options instead. They didn't really directly answer the
question. So, to avoid a double fence that might be an option in your motion to do --
you know, do X by this date if unanimous, you know, consent can't be obtained, then,
this is the way we are going. Double fence. Anyway, just a thought.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor. Sonya, I appreciate that and I think what the last speaker
Shane had mentioned that there are new people there, but at the same time we are
delaying a fence that needs to be built -- should be built, Walmart's willing to build the
eight foot fence, you know, that's -- that's -- it's a tough call. Thank you.
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, thank you. Question for JoAnn. If she -- we have been here
before.
Butler: Yes.
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May 22, 2013
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Rountree: But I did not hear you address the -- there was a comment made that not
every homeowner has been asked about utilizing the existing property line or the
existing location of the existing vinyl fence. It is my understanding from the previous
hearings -- multiple hearings and testimony that there was no consensus amongst
homeowners. Some were okay. Some weren't. Then the homeowners association
chimed in and said, well, they can't say, because it's ours and now we hear tonight that
it's individual property. So, please, help me understand what the applicants have done
with that particular thing and, then, I will have a follow up.
Butler: And also that the city has done, because I know in 2013, since the Mayor's been
involved and Ken Corder from your office and whatnot, the neighbors -- there has been
meetings with the neighbors from -- directly with the city. Starting in 2011 -- of course,
notice goes out to all of the neighbors and especially within 300 feet. So, everybody
along the property line was noticed about neighborhood meetings. We sent letters. We
worked with the homeowners association president at the time, treasurer at the time
and the architectural committee member that was Mr. Balkovetz, Rafael Osario and
David -- whose name I can't remember right now, but I have it if you need it, and at that
time, too, there was -- the homeowners association was saying you can't touch the
fence, it's our fence. Some of the association -- some of the individual members said it
was their fence. It maybe has been resolved that it's the individual homeowners' fence.
I don't know. We had at the time from the neighbors along the fence line we had a split
as to the type of, concrete, vinyl, the height of the fence. Some people didn't want a
fence. Some people wanted it eight feet, some people thought that the wind would take
an eight foot fence, that it was not a good thing. We had husband and wife that wanted
different things, it got a little dicey from that perspective, too. So, it was all over the
board and -- but, yes, the individuals within the homeowners association offices and
Walmart have reached out to the neighbors to try to make that happen. So, yes, we
have been here before. Did I answer your question?
Rountree: Yes. And we also asked the homeowners to get some consensus among
themselves at least twice and never received anything clear from them, so I'm not sure
if we are ever gong to get to that point. What's -- what's a drop dead date if there were
some timing conditions placed on whatever our action is -- I mean if we again ask the
homeowners if we can get something by the end of next week or tomorrow or 9:00
o'clock tonight or whatever. This could be a condition or that could be a condition.
Butler: I will try to convey this and perhaps Mr. Nary when he comes back can add to
this, because one of the reasons that we started this back in 2011 when we were in the
land use entitlement process to try to get that is because this is no small process, to get
people to agree to take their fence down we have to reach an agreement with each
person that we can temporarily be on their property in case there is any problem with
the construction. We would have to get a survey if we were to do this. So, there is a lot
-- there is a little documentation that you have to do and it would take time. Once
building permits have been issued and construction has been -- and I think you folks
more than most know what that freight train is like. It's just going -- gone and we are at
Meridian City Council
May 22, 2013
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-- we are at that point. We are virtually finished with construction and it -- ordering a
fence -- just ordering the fence took -- will take two months in asking the manufacturer
to produce it and get it shipped to site, which is why we know that we have asked you to
include a temporary C of O, because it's likely that we are butting up against the store
opening. So, it is -- this is the point. So, to ask for -- to delay again -- which is why we
got to the neighborhood meeting, we knew we had these pressures from construction
and whatnot. The only thing we can do is say given everybody's past experience all we
can do is say we are willing, we are ready, we will listen to any reasonable proposal, but
we have to put it on you to come together and do it.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: JoAnn, does it change the equation a bit if we say that the eight foot fence
proposed precast concrete, certificate -- temporary certificate of occupancy is in line and
now it's just a matter of is it going to be on your property or is it going to be right in the
middle, one fence shared. Does that help knowing that you know the type of fence
you're going to have, because the neighbors are fine with that that are here and
knowing that you can't open -- although there will be no fence in operation, probably
capping, where are you on something like that?
Butler: I can only -- I can repeat some of the conversations I have with the construction
folks and the project managers. The enhanced landscaping has been ordered and will
be delivered and there is no way to stop that and so the landscape has to go in and the
fence has to be in place so it can go in. So, there is that ripple effect.
Hoaglun: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Council?
Rountree: I have no more questions.
De Weerd: Okay.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor, we haven't discussed the fee waiver aspect.
De Weerd: Okay. The public testimony is closed, unless Council needs further
testimony. Okay. You can ask the applicant if you would like. I'm sorry. Mr. Zaremba,
if you would like to bring that for discussion, certainly.
Zaremba: Okay. I will start. That's something I always struggle with. There is a
purpose for the fees. It's not just a random number that we ask for. The purpose is to
defray the cost of the staff and equipment and time and expertise to process
applications like this. On the other hand, we keep going through the same issue on this
property, precisely because the neighbors can't agree on anything we are doing and
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May 22, 2013
Page 28 of 43
that's not the applicant's fault. So, I do have sympathy to the possibility of waiving the
fee. So, I'm not helping, but I could go either way on that.
De Weerd: Well, Mr. Zaremba, Iwould -- I know that we have testimony from Mrs.
McBride about the fee waiver. Certainly Walmart reached out back with the neighbors
and brought this option, because there is still a lot of concern about the vinyl fence and
they found a compromise and what I heard from the neighbors is there is some
concerns about other elements of the fence, but not the fence itself. I think there has
been good appreciation and I see consensus about the fence. Maybe there is other
elements that there is disagreement on, but this has been brought to you because it's a
compromise and it's because Walmart is responding to the concerns of the city -- or the
citizens and so I would be in full support and I know I don't vote, but I would make a
recommendation for the fee waiver as our part of it and I can tell you that if you -- if we
weren't here today we would spend more of staff's time by not being here today.
Zaremba: I can buy that.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other discussion from Council?
Rountree: None at this point.
Bird: Not at this point.
De Weerd: No further questions for any of the citizens, the applicant, or staff? Okay.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I move we close the public hearing on MDA 13-009.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing to Item 9-A -- 8-A.
All those in favor say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I don't know how many times we are going to deal with this particular issue,
but it had an opportunity to be solved several years ago and we took extra measures to
get it resolved and it never has been resolved, primarily because -- and not on the part
of Walmart, on the part of lack consensus amongst the neighbors. They don't
Meridian City Council
May 22, 2013
Page 29 of 43
understand that probably because they didn't necessarily want something behind their
homes. Unfortunately, we all have to deal with development and particularly
development that's allowed on particular pieces of property. Tonight this hearing is
about a request to change the development agreement. The development agreement is
a binding contract between the city and the developer. They don't have to be here.
They don't have to ask for this change and that's all they are asking for and that's all this
hearing is about. There is a vinyl fence that's already approved or the concrete fence
that they would like to modify to respond to the concerns that the neighbors have
apparently reached some consensus on. I think it's a legitimate response on the part of
Walmart. I think they have done everything they can from an engineering standpoint to
address the type of fence, to try to accommodate both the visual, as well as the
potential sound impact of the facility behind them. With respect to the solution, the
solution rests with the -- with the residents. If they had consensus to utilize the property
line to build a fence it would be done as near as I can tell from what Walmart has said.
That hasn't happened. They are in the process of moving forward. They could be
building the vinyl fence right now and if we don't act on this particular request this
evening that's exactly what's going to happen. I particularly -- I personally support the
change request and I support their request to waive the fees and to move forward.
Whatever the homeowners wish to do with the property that's left, that door has been
opened for them. Walmart is committed to maintaining that piece of property. That's on
record. That's part of this hearing. That's something the city can do to exercise our
authority to make sure that the maintenance happens. So, that's my position at this
point.
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor, I'm ready to make a motion, if there isn't anymore comments.
Bird: Go for it.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor, I move approval of MDA 13-009 to modify the development
agreement to substitute the vinyl fence for an eight foot precast concrete fence to be
placed on Walmart property. That we also issue a temporary certificate of occupancy
prior to the fence being installed and that all fees be waived or reimbursed for this DA
modification, CZC, and design review application and also I would encourage the
neighbors to clean up title to the property. If there is any hazards present that they get
that taken care of.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: And that last part was part of your motion?
Hoaglun: It was encouragement.
De Weerd: Okay.
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May 22, 2013
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Hoaglun: I'm trying to be positive.
De Weerd: Council, any discussion? Madam Clerk.
Roll Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: I do appreciate the neighbors being here tonight and for finding consensus.
Now, the challenge is -- or the ball is in your court to find consensus on the fence
removal and the property. So, we appreciate you being here tonight and thank you.
Item 9: Department Reports
A. Amended agenda to read: Mayor's Office: Resolution No. 13-
825: Resolution Appointing Larry Gardner, Ryan Lancaster,
Tracy Hopkins, Stephen Lewis, David Ballard, Jo Ann Bujarski,
Mica Gale, Jack McGee and Pat Morandi to the Meridian
Transportation Commission
De Weerd: The next item, since you did take care of item 8-A-1 with that motion, I will
move to Item 9-A. Council, in front of you you do have Resolution 13-925 and we did
amend the agenda to include Jack McGee and Pat Morandi also to the Meridian
Transportation Commission. I do have three of our commission members or new
appointees that will be new members once you make a motion and I'd like to introduce
them. If at the time I introduce you if you would like to make any comment you're
certainly welcome to do so, but to Seat One we have David Ballard. David, stand up.
Would you like to make comment? Thank you for joining us tonight and for sitting
through to this point.
Ballard: Well, my profession is as an attorney, so I can enjoy --
De Weerd: You enjoy the --
Ballard: -- the give and take and resolution that Madam Mayor and Council Members --
Council Member Zaremba, Rountree, Hoaglun and Rice. I appreciate the opportunity to
submit my application and look forward to working with the transportation commission.
Thank you.
De Weerd: Council, so Seat Two is to JoAnn Burjarski. Jack McGee is in Seat Three.
Seat Four is Mica Gale and Mica is our youth representative. So, he -- he served with
our transportation safety commission, I believe. Steve Lewis is here. He is in Seat
Five. Thank you for joining us. Seat Six is Tracy Hopkins. Seat Seven Pat Morandi.
Seat Eight Larry Gardner. And Seat Nine Ryan Lancaster, which I'm sure you
Meridian City Council
May 22, 2013
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recognize in the back as well. Thank you so much for joining us tonight and your
willingness to serve the city. So, Council, in front of you are recommendations for
appointment to -- and they are charter members of the Meridian Transportation
Commission. I will stand for any questions you might have.
Hoaglun: If we ask them now that they have seen just a planning and zoning issue and
knowing that they are dealing with transportation, which is like that all the time, do they
still wish to serve, but we won't --
De Weerd: No, you cannot ask that question. I'm sorry.
Hoaglun: After what they saw tonight. No.
De Weerd: Transportation is easier. If you believe that.
Hoaglun: I think they know what they are getting into. Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I move approval of Resolution No. 13-925 appointing these new charter
members to the Meridian Transportation Commission.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve the appointments to the new
transportation commission. Any questions from Council?
Rountree: Yes, Mayor.
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Which department will be supporting this commission?
De Weerd: This will be supported through our planning section and --
Rountree: Community Development.
De Weerd: In our planning section. Yes.
Rountree: In our planning section.
De Weerd: Uh-huh. Anything further? Madam Clerk.
Roll Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
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May 22, 2013
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MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: And thank you to the brave for stepping up and for agreeing to serve our
community. So, thank you.
B. Meridian Parks and Recreation Department: Park Dedication
Plaque Update
De Weerd: Okay. Item 9-B is under our Parks and Recreation Department and I will
turn this over to Jay.
Gibbons: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Of course I'm Jay
Gibbons. I'm the parks and pathways project manager.
De Weerd: You know, Jay, I saw your name as an elected official last night and I
thought, oh, I better check and see if he really ran for a highway district.
Gibbons: Different middle initial. Thank God. I got that question from my own brother,
too.
Hoaglun: Because he wasn't going to vote for you, was that it?
Gibbons: No. Happened to be driving through Middleton and saw a campaign sign,
asked me if I was getting political on him or something without notice. I assured him I
wasn't. I am here before you tonight to give you an update on a parks commission
project that's been going on for a couple years now. It has taken some time, it's been --
it's been a struggle in some regards to locate the correct records from many sources,
but I bring before you a set of park dedication plaques. This is an update. I'm not
looking for any action or anything. But what the parks commission would like to do is
get a bronze cast plaque for each of our previously undedicated parks within our current
system and there are 12 outstanding and so we have gone through the process of trying
to figure out where the land came from to become a park. Was it in partnership with a
development company or was it given to the city. Did the city buy it or how. And, then,
put that in appropriate language in the beginning and, then, through the Mayor -- and
the next was to find a dedication date, which proved difficult once or twice. Once we
located that, then, we were able to go through and figure out who the Mayor was, who
the Councilmen were, if there was a parks commission at that time and if there wasn't
who was the acting parks director in Public Works or the appropriate staff at that time
and I would like to address a couple of questions that -- I provided these to the Mayor a
couple -- a week ago just for a preliminary look before I brought it to Council to make
sure that I dotted the I's and crossed all the T's or what have you and a couple of the
plaques have varying numbers of parks commissioners on them. Sometimes there is
six and a lot of times they are even numbers. In order to clarify that -- once we located
the dedication date itself then -- typically the parks commission has nine members.
Well, we were between appointments and we had one -- one parks commissioner
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May 22, 2013
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stepped off, resigned or finished his term and this happened between the time that we
had a new parks commissioner on board. So, sometimes we ran into the issue that
there is only six or there is only eight. It's odd, but that's the way it is. We spent a
couple months ironing out an interim policy on how to deal with these park dedication
plaques in fairness to the parks commissioners or councilmen or what have you and
that -- for instance, last summer in June we dedicated Kleiner Park and we had a
dedication plaque cast for that project and over the course of time from -- June 9th was
the date and we -- that was the date that we dedicated it. We -- that was the date that
will reflect current parks commissioners at that time. There were two or three parks
commissioners that had -- that had finished their terms in January, February of that -- of
last year and we had new parks commissioners at the time that Kleiner Park was
dedicated. So, as much as we wanted to include everybody that had been involved in
that project over the course of that park's development, just --
De Weerd: Welcome to the creation of the plaque in front of this building.
Gibbons: That's why it's taken us two years to get to this point. So, we have them
finalized. We have what we think is correct and the next step is to -- to get in touch with
the foundry. We used a local foundry here for the Kleiner plaque and I would like to
work with them again. They are out in Melba. A family operated business and they
have given me some prices. We asked the Council last year for a budget to fund these
plaques and so we'd like to -- it's current in this fiscal year and we'd like to get these in
place before the end of October of this year, so -- that's the end of my story and Iwill --
if you have any questions or want some more information I'm here.
De Weerd: Thank you, Jay. Any questions from Council?
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Hoaglun
Hoaglun: As much as you like seeing your name in bronze, on Heroes Park, dedicated
August 6, 2008, it has my name. I don't think I came on the Council until September,
but -- and I don't know when Councilman Borton resigned. So, I think Joe was still here
in August and I came on in early September. So, you might want to double-check that,
Jay. I don't know if that's on my certificate. I might have something at home, but -- and,
again, I don't know when Joe resigned, but I do remember the Mayor wanted to appoint
me sooner, as opposed to later, but I had a trip to go on that -- I was going to be out of
town for awhile, so you just want to double-check that one.
Gibbons: That's precisely why I'm here before I go forward, because you all have that
additional piece of information and history more so than I do with the city, so --
Hoaglun: And I think you just put Councilman Bird on every one of them and you have
got that covered, so --
Meridian City Council
May 22, 2013
Page 34 of 43
Bird: Not a hundred percent, but --
Rountree: Not on 8th Street.
Bird: Uh?
Rountree: Not on 8th Street.
Bird: Not on 8th Street.
De Weerd: I was thinking the same about Councilman Rountree.
Rountree: I think that's correct. 8th Street and Storey Park.
Bird: I have got Storey. The back part of Storey.
De Weerd: If you have any comments or any feedback with corrections, et cetera,
please, let Jay know. I think, though -- I know you said you're not here for action per se,
but you want to get this rolling.
Gibbons: Yes.
De Weerd: Because it needs to be done in this budget year. When do you need
feedback by so that we can move forward?
Gibbons: I'd say in the next couple weeks is fine.
De Weerd: Okay.
Gibbons: By let's just say -- will be back here in two weeks, so --
De Weerd: Okay.
Gibbons: -- on an application, so by the first week in June would be great.
Bird: Thank you.
De Weerd: Very good, Jay.
Gibbons: Thank you.
C. Continued from May 7, 2013: Fire Department Emergency
Medical Service (EMS) Joint Powers Agreement Discussion
De Weerd: Thank you. Item 9-C is continued from May 7th and I will turn this over to
our fire chief.
Meridian City Council
May 22, 2013
Page 35 of 43
Niemeyer: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, thank you. I'd like to do this one
from back here. It will be brief and the podium is not my friend tonight, if that's okay with
you and Ralph.
De Weerd: It's in the right place. Right position. You don't have to move it.
Niemeyer: It's a long distance to walk. Just an update. We did present the Joint
Powers Agreement to the Boise City Council. They were the last signing party to hear
the agreement presentation. Overwhelmingly the mayor and council supported all the
concepts within the agreement and Councilman Eberle did have one point of discussion
he wanted to follow up with Steve Rutherford, their counsel, and in talking to Steve
today they expected it will be back on their agenda on June 4th. We will have a final
draft of all the ideas and thoughts and everything the week before that, so I can get that
to your Council. So, what I'd like to do is put this on the June 4th agenda for a final
presentation with all the changes made and hopefully get a motion and approval to sign
that agreement.
De Weerd: And we get to see you one more time on this diagram, uh?
Niemeyer: Not just once.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Having had the opportunity to sit with this for quite awhile and read it quite a
few times, I'm particularly concerned about paragraph 3 dash -- 3.4.3 and 3.6.3 with
respect to a decision to vacate the agreement on somebody's part and in effect give up
their right to provide EMS services and 3.6.3 it also gives up -- it gives to the parties the
right to sue. I don't like that. I think that on an annual basis we are committing to
Council that we may not be a part of it -- it might not be all that bad, because it talks
about the agreement term, the agreement is a one year renewable agreement. My
concern, then, is is if a party chooses to vacate the agreement in one year is that
agreement that they have made to give up EMS services continued beyond the year of
-- year term of the agreement they are working under?
Niemeyer: Madam Mayor, Members --
Rountree: I don't -- having struggled with it this whole time, I have concluded that I'm
not willing to accept that. If we are so distrustful of one another as parties to this that
we have to do that to make it happen, I just can't make that commitment. I'm sorry.
Niemeyer: Councilman Rountree, I can follow up on the very last point that you made,
then, we can go back to the others if you wish. With regard to if you get out of the
agreement at the end of that one year term can they get back in EMS. The answer is
Meridian City Council
May 22, 2013
Page 36 of 43
yes. That provision is in there and that was a discussion point. Part of this really hinges
upon what we are seeing in national best practice. I do sit on the NFPA committee that
oversees EMS and one of the things that's been lacking nationwide is a foundation of an
EMS system. Where I came from in King county up in Washington they have a system
and it's through ordinance and it's governed very similarly to what we are trying to do
here. You talk about trust and you're absolutely correct. Over the last 30 years there
has been a huge lack of trust among the agencies that have provided EMS and that's
what's got us in the positions we have been in. As the chief do I see this document
changing over time as trust is developed? Absolutely. To your point, if we could do
everything by a hand shake and a trust factor, I would do that all day long, because I
think that's the right way to do things. So, I do see the document on an annual basis as
it comes up for renewal being modified by future councils and future fire chiefs, future
directors. But this was a starting point to try and put some teeth into the agreement. I
can tell you at the chief and director level with Darby Weston, Dennis Doan, Mike
Winkle, there has become a huge emphasis on trust and there is a lot of trust. I'd like to
believe that we are not going to have any hiccups throughout the process, but as a
starting point to try and get this agreement off the ground that's why the teeth are in that
language.
De Weerd: Any other comments from Council?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Thank you, chief.
Niemeyer: I will be back.
D. Legal Department: Discussion on the Regulations Regarding
Fences In Setbacks
De Weerd: I have heard that famous saying somewhere. Item 9-D is under our Legal
Department.
Nary: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. I can think of no better
night to talk about double fencing than tonight. We have had a -- we have had aletter --
and Iwill give you a little bit of the back story very briefly. We got a letter from Mill Iron
Subdivision from their HOA and one of the members in regards to a double fence
concern that they have raised. There is a property owner that abuts the pathway -- you
know where Mill Iron is, it's basically at the corner of Black Cat and Cherry Lane. There
is a pathway that is actually on the Golf View property that is adjacent to Mill Iron, so the
pathway is actually Golf View's pathway, not Mill Iron's, so we have a city ordinance that
requires that four foot fencing is -- adjacent to any pathway either has to have four foot
fencing or six foot open vision fencing. This particular property has a four foot fence
adjacent to the pathway and a six foot fence immediately behind it. The reason for the
fencing, from what I understand, is there had been an issue with a dog that has
basically left the yard and either bit someone or nearly bit someone and so as part of a
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May 22, 2013
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resolution of a criminal charge, the person was required to fence off the dog and that's
the way they chose to fence it. Clearly that's not the intent of our ordinance, but it
doesn't violate our ordinance, since there is actually a four foot fence adjacent to the
pathway as required. We don't have any other prohibitions about putting additional
fencing in your yard. So, the person from -- from Mill Iron is asking us to consider
changing our ordinance and evaluating that. What we don't want to do from the staff
level is to just immediately react and create a different problem or different concern of
some sort that could occur if we simply just said no double fences. There is lots of
different reasons why there are fencing in certain areas and screening and the like
along pathways and not in -- so, we want to -- we want to be respectful of the process
that we have for the UDC, the process we have to make amendments to the UDC and
consider this request. So, what we are simply asking tonight is if you're comfortable
with that, we will work with the Planning Department and Caleb and Bruce and allow
that process to occur, so they can consider that. Caleb -- one comment was we get --
probably that's the -- one of the areas of our UDC that we get a lot of push back from
when people ask, especially along those pathways, because their concerns are all very
similar, animals and access into their yards and safety and those types of things. So, it
is an area that is certainly ripe for a discussion, we just -- we didn't think we could make
a very quick change to the code anyway and, secondarily -- I think Bruce can echo this
if he'd like, but that we just simply didn't want to create a different problem by simply just
reacting to one situation. There is a number of these types of pathways around the city
and access to the schools and school paths and there is a bunch of these, so we do
want to be respectful of the request and I will certainly advise the requester of whatever
your direction is and, then, we will work through the planning process to evaluate an
alternative.
Chatterton: Madam Mayor, Council Members, Bill said it very well. We don't want to
create more problems by -- there really is not a quick fix to this. I mean one problem
that comes to mind is what -- what is a fence. If someone were to put up one of these
small decorative picket fences somewhere in their garden in their backyard, is that a
fence and should that be prohibited by the -- by the code. You know, it might meet the
-- the intent of the code much more than the situation that Bill just described. So, we
would like to think about this and make sure that we don't -- you know, take the
Hippocratic oath -- all planners take that -- try not to do -- do harm or at least create
greater -- greater complexity than we already have. So, as Bill said, we would like to --
like to look at this and reply to the correspondence that we had and see if we can come
up with a good solution in our next round of UDC amendments.
De Weerd: Any comments from Council?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Not necessarily this item, but the explanation we got about why the fence is
there, it seems hard for me to believe that a legal direction can cause somebody to
Meridian City Council
May 22, 2013
Page 38 of 43
violate a local ordinance. If I understood you correct, they had to build the fence
because there was a criminal issue related to the dog. I -- we got more problems than
just double fencing.
De Weerd: I don't think they had to build a six foot fence, though.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Rountree, yeah, these
all have to work in concert, because one of the -- one of the issues as raised by the
homeowners association is they believe it violates their CC&Rs, which, of course, we
don't enforce that, but that's one issue and the question was also raised in the letter is,
you know, which trumps which. And the answer is none. You can -- you have to meet
what legal requirement may be and you have to meet our ordinance requirements. The
problem is -- and I hate to use the term loop hole, it just is a situation -- our ordinance
simply requires a four foot fence adjacent to a pathway. It doesn't prohibit you from
building another fence in your yard anywhere you choose. You know, if you put up
another fence to screen your hot tub or you put up another fence to screen your garden,
you're allowed to do that. We don't have any separation requirements and that's kind of
where we first started this conversation with our department and planning was, you
know, should separation be required or do we only allow one fence -- solid fence in the
setback and that's where, again, I think where Bruce and Caleb were both saying we
don't want to just simply respond to one situation, we really need to look at how we
should react, but they all have to work together. And this is a fairly large yard. I mean
they could have built the fence in a different spot and probably met the intent of what
the resolution of the criminal case would be, but this is the -- this is the path they chose,
but it just doesn't violate ordinance currently as it's written. It certainly does violate our
intent and what the spirit of our ordinance is supposed to be, but it certainly -- it doesn't
violate the specifics and we don't believe it's a criminal violation to do this. So, we do
want to find a resolution that makes sense. As I stated, Caleb said there is a number of
times we get push back from people because of the same things you folks all hear,
security, safety, those types of things. So, there might be a better way and that's what I
think we are just trying to find.
De Weerd: Okay.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: And typical of going sideways, it sounds like there may be a side issue that
also needs to be addressed and that's how we define what a fence is. As you
mentioned, what if somebody gets a bunch of eight foot trellises and strings them
together in an effect it may function as a fence and we may also, while we are
considering this, need to define what's a fence.
De Weerd: I see someone waving their hand in the back. I am assuming that you're a
part of this story. If you would like to come forward. I will ask you to say the same thing
Meridian City Council
May 22, 2013
Page 39 of 43
on the public record if you would.
Constantini: Thank you. My name is Sara Constantini. I live at 4558 West White Birch
in Mill Iron.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Constantini: Thank you for bringing this issue up. I appreciate it. The fence is a six
foot fence. From my understanding, just to give you a little background of what I know,
apparently their dogs -- they have Beagles and they are aggressive. They were --
apparently there was a court order that gave them a variety of choices where they had
different options. They could have put a shorter fence -- again, their yard is quite large.
A shorter fence back. They could have put an invisible fence down. They chose to put
up the six foot fence. They did come to the committee and ask for approval, but it was
denied because of the height and it was closed vision. They built the fence anyway.
Then when the code enforcement was called out that's when they came in to get their
building permit after the fact. Bill Parsons, bless his heart, gave a permit and didn't
realize at the time that it was -- all the background going on. But in looking at all the
different codes that the city has, there is a part that -- and, you know, we don't care, if
you want to put a fence up, knock yourself out, but don't have it adjacent to -- you know,
here is the six foot and in the agreement -- the agreement to approving your
subdivision, that was part of the -- and it's not necessarily CC&Rs, it's the -- it is part of
the CC&Rs, but it's also part of the city code, one being afence -- let's see. And I have
it. It says they cannot have -- or people cannot have -- it does not allow four feet of
closed vision fence with two feet of open vision fence, which is what they have created.
That is not allowed per code. And it is in an agreement before the sub -- subdivision
was created with Golf View certain criteria that needed to be abided by, this being also
part of it. Their position, from my understanding, is they don't have to abide by the
CC&Rs. However, they do have to abide by the CC&Rs. What they are exempt from is
some of the ACC, quote, guidelines, because they moved into the original homes that
were there after the subdivision was created, so they didn't have to have a certain color
of roof or paint, they could have their out buildings. So, the ACC does not comply to
that. But their lot -- block and lot is specifically named along that east boundary
regarding the fence height. So, that's why we have a problem and why this is all coming
up, so -- yeah. Sorry.
De Weerd: That's why the HOA boards earn such a big appreciation from all of the
residents, I'm sure.
Constantini: It's -- they take time and you can't make everybody happy, so --
De Weerd: No. That's --
Constantini: I mean we understand -- we want clarification, you know, what's right for
one is right for another and we are not saying -- again, don't put up a fence, don't -- we
are not saying don't abide by the court ordered agreement, but if the court ordered
Meridian City Council
May 22, 2013
Page 40 of 43
agreement has multiple options, then, look at the other options before moving forward
and violating government city codes, but this is --
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: And Bill. If we clarify and we get this straightened out and -- does that give
the homeowners association any ability to rectify the situation within their
neighborhood? And with a city issuing the permit for them to build a fence, have we
created an situation where, well, oops on us, but there is no way to fix it if we resolve
the issues here.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Hoaglun, first, it's not a
violation of the city code. I'm sorry, but I would have to disagree. It doesn't violate the
city code. As long as there is a four foot fence adjacent to the pathway that is the only
requirement and they are meeting that. So, we don't have the legal ability to require
that they take that fence down. Even if we change the code, it's an existing fence, so
the code won't apply to it, only if they change the fence. The permit was issued
because, again, the pathway isn't on Mill Iron's property. So, when planning looks at
the request for the fence there is nothing in Mill Iron that would tell our planner that
there is a pathway here that you can't move this fence. So, we did issue the permit
because, again, it's not on ours, so there is a lot of different issues and why I think we
are trying to say -- that's why I think this truly needs a process. I think there is a
problem, because we have, obviously, found a gap here between what you can do and
what you should do and so -- and we do have push back from a number of people about
doing exactly what this person did. So, I think it does make sense to be evaluated, look
at whether a change in our code is appropriate, and go through the process to do that.
But, again, it doesn't -- we have looked at it both from my staff, as well as our
prosecution staff and they both come to the same conclusion, no court is going to
require that they remove that fence based on our city code currently. So, that's not an
option for code enforcement. We have already explored that. That's not a choice. So,
all that's left -- if it violates the CC&Rs, the HOA has ever right to take action if they
wish. It doesn't violate our city code, but we think our code needs some review and
potentially a change. But that they may not affect this one particular property anyway.
Constantini: When the permit was filled out, to my understanding, it said backyard. It
did not say pathway. The fencing in the backyard. Therefore, a permit was issued.
Nary: It's still not a problem, ma'am.
Constantini: When the permit was applied for, which from my understanding, then, at
least everything should have been doubled for the permit. You're right, there is a lot of
criteria and there is a lot of things going on with this fence and how they located --
where they located it. From Mill Iron's point of view we feel that the permit was issued
in error, which Bill Parson stated he went out there and looked at the fence after the
Meridian City Council
May 22, 2013
Page 41 of 43
fact. He's not legal counsel, so -- but we would just like assistance.
De Weerd: Mr. Chatterton?
Chatterton: Madam Mayor, Council Members, Bill Parsons actually thought that he did
make a mistake, partly for the reason that Bill mentioned that -- that Bill Nary mentioned
that it's not shown on the plat. However, taking a closer look at the ordinance with the
legal department, you know, I certainly agree with Mr. Nary that this is not a violation of
code. It certainly is a problem with the intent of the code and that's why we needed to
clarify it. But Bill didn't make a mistake. If he had realized there was a micropath there
he might have -- he might have said, yes, there is a problem with this, but it looks like
we had to be in alignment as far as how the ordinance was going to be interpreted and
we are now, we just know that -- we know what's wrong with the ordinance, I mean
there is no violation of the ordinance going on here, but we know what's wrong with it
and it does need to be corrected for future instances.
Constantini: So -- I'm sorry. So, where the ordinance states this does not allow for four
foot of closed vision fence with two feet of open vision fence -- because that is what is
there right now.
Chatterton: Yes. As Mr. Nary said, there is nothing prohibiting a second fence from
being built. From double fencing.
Constantini: Every homeowner along there or any area of the City of Meridian where
there is a four foot fence, you're stating or implying that they can all, then, butt up a six
foot fence right up against it?
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: No. Mr. Nary -- I don't think that we are going to solve this and maybe you
can have this in a different venue. I think -- and I understand there is frustration from
the homeowners association and not an enviable position to be in, but at this point I
think what's in front of Council tonight is how to clarify our ordinance and I don't know if
what action is taken will help you in this scenario, but we want to avoid any future
scenarios and you have other properties abutting that pathway that once you open the
door to it others will say, well, they did it, shouldn't I be able to. So, that's one of the
reasons we are having this conversation is, hopefully, closing the gap and having a
solid ordinance. So, I would ask that maybe we can have -- you can continue this
conversation either after the Council meeting or certainly at another time, but I
appreciate you being here.
Constantini: Thank you so much.
Hoaglun: And, Madam Mayor, thank you for letting us know about it and that situation,
because it is -- it helps fill the gaps of why we are trying to do what we need to do, so
appreciate that.
Meridian City Council
May 22, 2013
Page 42 of 43
De Weerd: Yeah.
Constantini Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Appreciate you being here. So, Council, I think what staff is
saying is this is something that they will be working on and what is the expected timeline
on it?
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I don't know if they have other UDC
amendments that are in process, but that was -- ideally we thought we would put this
into that process, so UDC amendments -- and we know, of course, you have to go
through the Planning and Zoning Commission first and, then, Council. So, I think we
are going to identify what the issues are, probably have some conversations with Ms.
McGibben as well, and, then, we just have to start identifying where are these going to
be impacted, because, again, we don't want to simply create a rule that we either can't
enforce or it impacts other people in the opposite way, that -- we were thinking around
schools there is a lot of pathways, there is lots of -- there is lots of reasons why we have
these the way they are. So, we want to, again, not create a greater problem by doing
this.
De Weerd: I do remember the intent and that was a safety issue and so certainly we do
want to address this and, Mr. Chatterton, do you have an idea of a timeline?
Chatterton: Madam Mayor, I believe we could be -- return to you within approximately
the next 90 days. We might want to -- given the fact that there is room for abuse here
that is -- at least of the intent of the ordinance, and solid high fencing being double
fenced, again, I don't know that there is a ground swell of folks doing that, but we do
need to shut the door on that and make sure that the intent of the ordinance was being
met and we are not creating a greater set of problems. I think we can probably be back
here in approximately 90 days.
De Weerd: Okay. Anything further from Council on this? Okay. Thank you.
Item 10: Future Meeting
De Weerd: Item 10 is the end of our agenda and, Council, any items for consideration
for future meeting?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. At this point I would entertain a motion to close -- or adjourn.
Bird: So moved.
Rountree: Second.
Meridian City Council
May 22, 2013
Page 43 of 43
De Weerd: All those in favor say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
MEETING ADJOURNED At 9:12 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
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