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CITY COUNCIL REGULAR
MEETING AGENDA
Tuesday, March 19, 2013 at 7:00 PM
1. Roll-Call Attendance
X_ David Zaremba X Brad Hoaglun
X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
2. Pledge of Allegiance
3. Community Invocation by Darryl Taylor
4. Adoption of the Agenda Adopted
5. Consent Agenda Approved (Pg 3-4)
A. Approve Minutes of January 22, 2013 City Council PreCouncil
Meeting
B. Approve Minutes of January 22, 2013 City Council Regular
Meeting
C. Approve Minutes of March 5, 2013 City Council Regular
Meeting
D. 2nd Addendum to the 2009 License Agreement with Nampa &
Meridian Irrigation District to Cross the Vaughn Lateral in One
Location South of Franklin Road with Water, Reclaimed Water
and a Trunk Sewer Line in Conjunction with the Ada County
Highway District Franklin Road Project
E. Development Agreement for Approval: AZ 12-009 Villas @
Lochsa Falls by Arete Investment Group, LLC Located West
Side of N. Linder Road Between Chinden Boulevard and W.
McMillan Road Request: Annexation and Zoning of 5.67 Acres
of Land from RUT in Ada County to the R-8 (Medium-Density
Residential) Zone
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda -Tuesday, March 19, 2013 Page 1 of 3
All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearing,
please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting.
F. Findings of Fact, Conclusion of Law for Approval: MDA 12-009
Southridge by The Land Group Located South of W. Overland
Road Between S. Ten Mile Road and S. Linder Road Request:
Public Hearing: Modification to the Development Agreement
G. Final Order for Approval: FP 13-008 Karmelle Subdivision by
Providence Management, LLC Located South Side of E.
Victory Road, East of S. Eagle Road Request: Final Plat
Consisting of 43 Single-Family Residential Building Lots and
Nine (9) Common Lots on Approximately 16.18 Acres of Land
in an R-4 Zoning District
H. Final Order for Approval: FP 13-003 Canterbury Commons
Subdivision by Northside Management Located South Side of
W. Pine Avenue, East of N. Ten Mile Road Request: Final Plat
Approval Consisting of 38 Single-Family Residential Building
Lots and Four (4) Common Lots on Approximately 8.46 Acres
of Land in an R-15 Zoning District
6. Community Items/Presentations
A. Police Department: Chiefs Commendation Award Presentation
(Pg 4-5)
B. Continued from March 12, 2013: Discussion on Race Event
Proposal with the Grand Prix Association of Meridian (Pg 5-15)
7. Items Moved From Consent Agenda None
8. Action Items
A. Continued from March 5, 2013: FP 13-007 Kingsbridge
Subdivision No. 3 by BHH Kingsbridge, LLC Located East of S.
Eagle Road, Midway Between E. Victory Road and E. Amity
Road Request: Final Plat Approval Consisting of 36 Single-
Family Residential Building Lots and Three (3) Common/Other
Lots on 19.51 Acres of Land in an R-4 Zoning District
Approved (Pg 15-16)
B. FP 13-009 Villas @ Lochsa Falls by Arete Investment Group,
LLC Located West Side of N. Linder Road Midway Between
Chinden Boulevard and W. McMillan Road Request: Final Plat
Approval of Two (2) Residential Lots and Two (2) Common
Lots on Approximately 0.61 Acres in an R-8 Zoning District
Approved (Pg 16-19)
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda -Tuesday, March 19, 2013 Page 2 of 3
All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearing,
please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting.
C. FP 13-010 Spurwing Grove Subdivision No. 5 by Brighton
Development, Inc. Located North of Chinden Boulevard and
West of N. Jayker Way Request: Final Plat Approval
Consisting of 16 Single-Family Residential Building Lots and
Four (4) Common Lots on Approximately 6.47 Acres of Land in
an R-8 Zoning District Approved (Pg 19-24)
9. Department Reports
A. Community Development: Introduction and Discussion of
Proposed Updates to the International Mechanical, Building,
and Residential Code (Pg 24-29)
B. First Reading of Ordinance No. 13-1547: An Ordinance
Amending Meridian City Code Section 10-1-3 and 10-5-2
Adding Local Amendments to the IBC, IMC, and IRC,
Prohibiting Natural Draft Systems in Occupiable Spaces in all
Residential Occupancies, Requiring Carbon Monoxide Alarms
in New and Existing Dwellings, Establishing Requirements for
Carbon Monoxide Alarms (Pg 29-30)
10. Ordinances
A. Ordinance No. 13-1548: An Ordinance (AZ 12-009 -Villas At
Lochsa Falls) for Annexation of a Parcel Of Land Located In
The NE '/4 Of The SE '/4 Of Section 26, Township 4 North,
Range 1 West, and Annexing Certain Lands And Territory,
Establishing And Determining The Land Use Zoning
Classification Of Said Lands From RUT To R-8 (Medium
Density Residential District) In The Meridian City Code (Pg 30-
31)
11. Amended Onto the Agenda: Executive Session Per Idaho State Code
67-2345 (1)(f): To Consider and Advise Its Legal Representatives in
Pending Litigation
Into Executive Session at 8:30 p.m.
Out of Executive Session at 9:11 p.m.
(Pg 31-32)
12. Future Meeting Topics None
Adjourned at 9:12 p.m.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda -Tuesday, March 19, 2013 Page 3 of 3
All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearing,
please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting.
eriian City Council March 19, 2013
A meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:03 p.m., Tuesday, March
19, 2013, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Mary Tammy de Weerd, Brad Hoaglun, David Zaremba, Keith Bird
and Charlie Rountree.
Others Present: Bill Nary, Jaycee Holman, Bruce Chatterton, Bill Parsons, Bruce
Freckleton, Tracy Basterrchea, Chris Amenn, and Dean Willis.
Ite 1: oll-call ttenance:
Roll call.
X David Zaremba X Brad Hoaglun
X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
De Weerd: Well, I will go ahead and welcome everyone to our regular City Council
meeting. Thank you for joining us. For the record it is Tuesday, March 19th. It's a few
minutes after 7:00. We will start with roll call attendance, Madam Clerk.
Item : ledge of Ilei nce
De Weerd: Item No. 2 is the pledge to our flag. If you will all rise and join us in the
pledge.
Ite : Cornrnunity Invocation y arryl Taylor
De Weerd: Now, I don't have my glasses on, but -- Dusty, is that you? No. Okay. We
don't anyone for Item No. 3, so --
Bird: Yeah, we do.
De Weerd: Yeah? Darryl. Darryl Taylor. Well, it's not on my agenda. I was like --
okay. Who do I know out there. I was almost going to assign it to just anyone sitting
there.
Taylor: Well, let's try that one.
De Weerd: I have. Thank you for being here.
Taylor: You bet. My pleasure. Let's pray. Heavenly Father, what a blessed nation we
are, Father, and for -- for the fact that freedom is our -- is our main stay, that we can --
we can come and we can express our political opinions, our religious thoughts, and,
Father, we just thank you for that and for the military that has helped us with the -- with
Meridian City Council
March 19, 2013
Page 2 of 32
the freedom, Father, that you will just give them safety and security during their time
and their stay away from home. Father, for the -- for the political arena, for the federal
government and the state and the county and even here in Meridian with the City
Council, Father, we just thank you for their dedication, thank you, Father, for their -- for
their wisdom to -- to help with this freedom of choice and, Father, also for the
construction projects that are going on, for the safety of the workers and also the
patience of those that are going through the construction zone, Father, that you would
just guide and direct them. And, Father, just now tonight we are asking just for your
wisdom and your patience to hear, as matters are discussed and, Father, we just thank
you once again for -- for sending your son that gives us freedom on -- not just on the
outside, but freedom to live as we -- as we will on the inside and we just thank you in
Jesus' name, amen.
De Weerd: And amen to that prayer. Especially, about the patience during road
construction. Thank you. Because I think I'm almost at wit's end and I never thought I
would hear myself say that. So, thank you, Darryl. You have a free card to call me
whatever you want, so -- everyone else does. I don't even give them a card. You did
remind me over this last week we had a speaker in town that has gained national
attention as the man without limbs and Nick Vujicic came and spoke at Meridian Middle
School and he talked about what we do with our broken pieces and I know I talked to a
number of people after his presentation at the middle school and certainly his
presentation at the Idaho Center was -- was real faith based, but what Nick did in giving
hope in our valley, in our community, and he revealed a statistic I don't know if a lot of
us really have really grasped yet, but out of the thousand students that sat in that
auditorium at Meridian Middle School, one in four kids raised their hand that they
considered committing suicide and much of that was due to teasing or bullying and
think until we as a community make a decision that we won't accept that kind of
behavior and this is not just a kid thing, you see enough adult bullying as well and what
role that we can all play in healing our community and as Nick mentioned, three
seconds it takes you to say one mean thing, but that person you said it to, they bring it
home with them and that three seconds multiplies over and over again. So, just to call
out to our community and being a part of the solution, so with that cheery note I do
appreciate our faith community coming and starting us out, reminding us about the
important things. So, thank you.
Ite tin the en
De Weerd: Item No. 4 is the adoption of the agenda.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: On tonight's agenda a couple items to note and one item to add. Under 9-B,
that is Ordinance No. 13-1547. 10-A is Ordinance No. 13-1548. And we need to add
Item 11, which is an Executive Session per Idaho State Code 67-2345(1)(f), which is to
Meridian City Council
March 19, 2013
Page 3 of 32
consider and advise its legal representatives in pending litigation. So, with that, Madam
Mayor, I move adoption of the agenda as amended.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: And you almost thought we would get through it without one of those, uh?
bird: Yeah.
Rountree: Yes.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda as amended. All those
in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item : Consent en a
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Meridian City Council
March 19, 2013
Page 4 of 32
De Weerd: Item 5 is our Consent Agenda.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I move approval of the Consent Agenda and the Mayor to sign and the Clerk
to attest.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda. Madam
Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item omunity Items/ resentations
olive apartment: Chief's o men ation ward re entaion
De Weerd: Item 6-A is under our Community Item/Presentations and I will turn this over
to our deputy chief. And just, by the way, I would like to just tell you how appreciative
we are of our police department. You did Meridian proud today at the state legislature
speaking to SCR-112 and what the legalization in any form of marijuana will do to
communities, not just ours but communities across the state. The words that our
department, through the various representation, was very moving and very applicable.
So, thank you.
Meridian City Council
March 19, 2013
Page 5 of 32
Basterrechea: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Madam Mayor, President Hoaglun,
Members of the Council, we have a chief's commendation to award tonight to one of our
local citizens and I don't mean to be rude, but I am going to turn this around and turn my
back on you while we present it and talk to the crowd.
De Weerd: That's more appropriate.
Basterrechea: There we go. As most everybody that pays attention to the news knows
that on March 9th the Ada County Sheriff's Department and Boise Police Department
was involved in a critical incident, which ended in a shooting south of Kuna. Being a
member of a critical incident task force that investigates those shootings and the
Meridian Police Department was asked to lead the investigation into this shooting.
During our investigation the initial stages took a very long time to gather evidence and
once we were going through the evidence back at the station we realized that there
were three outstanding rifle casings that we could not account for, so we sent the crime
scene investigators back to the scene in an attempt to locate these missing rifle casings
and once they were there they were met by Mr. Gene Anderson and Gene had noticed
detectives out scouring the area looking for something and Gene came out to the edge
of his property line and asked our detectives and the other crime scene investigator
there, he said can I help you? What are you looking for? And they described to Gene
the nickel plated rifle casings and almost immediately Gene looked down in his field and
said you mean something like this and picked up a rifle casing, which made our
detectives' job much easier, they were able to focus their efforts at that time to that
localized area and they were able to recover the outstanding rifle casings and while that
was very important to us, Gene -- the impression that Gene left on our investigators and
on us was much more important. It's citizens like Gene who volunteer to help police
officers when we need their help, without us having to ask, they just we believe make
this a great state to live in and a great community to live in and so if Gene would come
forward, we have a picture of -- to present to Gene of Gene standing in his field with the
evidence markers where the casings were found, as well as a certificate -- a chief's
commendation for Gene. So, we are very pleased to present this to you, Gene.
De Weerd: And thank you, Gene. We appreciate our citizens that are so willing to step
forward and be part of the solution and I really truly believe that's what is special about
this community in particular is people are willing to sometimes stick their neck out and
appreciate the police department recognizing that as well.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor, if I might add, it's always nice -- Gene now has proof that he is
outstanding in his field, so -- there you go. Well, it had to be said. You know it had to
be said.
Rountree: I was hoping you'd say it, because I was about to.
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Meridian City Council
March 19, 2013
Page 6 of 32
De Weerd: Sitting between two corny guys. Item 6-B is continued from March 12th and
that's a discussion on the race event proposal and -- Warren. I think Council has had
an opportunity to go through the materials that you left with them and might have come
back with a couple of questions and so I will open this up to Council for questions for
Warren and see if Warren had additional information he wanted to share as well.
Busse: Thank you, Madam Mayor. I did also bring in today some copies of the rough
survey that we are going to be taking to the businesses in the proposed track area.
Once we have, you know, a conditional approval, you know, we intend to begin that
survey process immediately, as well as beginning to talk to local -- local potential
sponsors first. We have a significant list ready to go, but we are not going to get with
them prior to, you know, having some indication that we can move forward. I did have a
very positive meeting with Director Bruce Wong from the ACRD last week and he has
me on the schedule for April 10th to present to the commissioners, you know, the
concept of what we are looking to do now. Also I'm looking to see if you have input on
which circuit or which track you would prefer. It's kind of vital that we narrow that down.
You know, particularly for the ACHD so they know what they are looking at, you know,
as we move forward. So, the hope at this point is to get some conditional approvals
from the city, ACRD, and have some sponsorship commitments in hand prior to the trip
to Long Beach next week, so that when I meet with the Indycar folks there, there is a
very real possibility of coming back with adate -- a provisional date on their 2014
calendar, which would, again, still be subject to approval here, so that we could, then,
move forward full time.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, questions?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Warren, I had a question on the questionnaire that you're proposing to -- or
the survey that you're proposing to do. It probably would be good to look at this in the
context of businesses that are within the proposed route and businesses that are in the
proposed area --
Busse: Oh, absolutely.
Rountree: -- so you can distinguish between --
Busse: Between the two.
Rountree: -- those that are going to have an immediate impact with road closures and
those that are going to be in the vicinity and may very well see a significant benefit and I
don't know what you're leading in the survey with, but certainly you're going to want to
explain to the folks that are on the corridor that it would involve road closures --
Meridian City Council
March 19, 2013
Page 7 of 32
Busse: Right.
Rountree: -- for a period of time when they typically would be in business, with the
exception of probably Sunday in most cases.
Busse: We discussed -- the intention is prior to actually getting into the survey
face-to-face meeting with hopefully the owner, manager if the owner is not available,
and discuss the nature of what we intend to do, how long it takes to set it up, tear it
down, what they are looking at in terms of any actual closures.
Rountree: And I would point out that earlier this evening Warren handed out the new
business cards for the Grand Prix Association of Meridian. So, hopefully you all will get
one of those and the letterhead on the information provided recognizes Meridian as the
potential site for a Grand Prix race.
Busse: One other interesting point to bring up to you folks is as you look at the logo on
the letterhead one of the things I have been discussing with the artist -- and I don't know
if this is something you would embrace or not. I don't know if it's the -- it's what you
want to put out there, but it would be a fairly simple matter with the trees that we have in
the colors behind the cars, to change that to a water tower. Just throw that out there.
You know, it would be very simple to do. It doesn't need to be done, so --
De Weerd: My mom taught me -- other comments, Mr. Rountree?
Rountree: I have no other comments. I'm sure you have one. The water tower.
De Weerd: I am just biting my tongue. Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor. I have read through the materials and found them very
interesting, very exciting. I think this is a great idea and would like to see you move
forward with it. My opinion of which route to use would be to pick the one that has the
most turns on it. We have a lot of straightaways and that's not that interesting for the
television audience, so the one that has the most turns.
Bird: Number three.
Zaremba: Now, not -- not to go negative, but you have some sizeable challenges
ahead of you. We don't have the hospitality infrastructure here to handle 44,000 visitors
or 2,000 -- 200,000 visitors. I'm going to make some suggestions of some research for
you to do if you would and that is call the Boise Auditorium District and ask them how
many hotel rooms and motel rooms there are. I suspect it's less than 5,000 in the whole
Treasure Valley. That's not very many. I would call the airport -- all three of them,
actually, Nampa, Caldwell, and Boise and ask them where they would put 60 corporate
jets if sponsors and all brought their jets and retinue. The biggest event that I can think
of recently was the International Special Olympics about three years ago and you might
give them a call and ask them what was the size of their event. I know they do a small
Meridian City Council
March 19, 2013
Page 8 of 32
event every year, but the international one that they did I think '09 or '08, something like
that. What size were they and did that seem to stretch our hospitality capability. When
you're in Long Beach I would ask them what kind of facility you need for a media and
broadcast center. I cannot off the top of my head think of any building in or near
Meridian that would have the power and the connectivity --
Busse: Right.
Zaremba: -- that would be necessary for the international broadcast community and
don't want those to come across as negative, but if we are capable -- if the whole
Treasury Valley is capable of hosting 15,000 people, then, we are not ready to ask
200,000 to come here, so -- and the difficulty is I don't think people would put in enough
hotel rooms that were only going to be used three days a year. So, I suspect there is
challenges there. One more challenge. Since Meridian doesn't have public
transportation, if we got 200,000 people to come they would all have to drive to the
event and even if they doubled up in the cars we are talking about parking 100,000
cars within walking distance of the event and that would be a challenge for us as well.
I'm just --these are things to gear your research toward and questions to ask.
Busse: A number of those issues have been worked on to this point already. I have
spent a significant amount of time with Pat Rice of the auditorium district in Boise.
There are closer to probably 20,000 rooms in the Treasure Valley at this time and the
number is rising. Additionally, we have spoken with Boise State about if the event
would be during the summer they are looking at the possibility of using dorm rooms as
-- you know, fans could stay there. Another potential income for the university itself.
Also work with the auditorium district in terms of using -- if folks want to sign up for a list
of -- it's done at races all over the world -- you know, they can rent rooms in private
residences and we can, you know, get a list of that, but housing I think we are okay on.
Zaremba: Good.
Busse: Airports and corporate jets, between -- you know, Boise Airport alone and with
Gowen Field I think we are in good shape. There is sufficient, you know, storage and
capacity to handle both parking and, you know, taking care of those vehicles while they
are there. Public transportation. Interestingly, in my meeting with Director Wong last
week one of the big things I said was, you know, we are going to have -- you know, the
first event I have no doubt will be an attendance smash. Everybody is going to come,
because they want to see it. It's something new and exciting. Getting them to come
back year two is a challenge and that means you have to make year one positive for
them. They have got to be able to get to and from the event in a timely fashion and
parking and getting to and from is going to be critical and he immediately stepped
forward and said, you know, we have got a whole van of Commuteride -- fleet of
Commuteride vans that are, you know, available on the weekends and they very much
want to partner with us and we are looking at those kinds of answers to where we can
have -- you know, I use Disneyland as an example. They have 150,000 visitors a day
and parking can be -- you know, it's huge, but they have shuttles moving so quickly and
Meridian City Council
March 19, 2013
Page 9 of 32
so rapidly that it's not a deterrent and that's what we are looking to achieve here. But,
again, all those are good points and I will be addressing them individually.
Zaremba: I appreciate your looking into them. I guess the thing that worries me a little
bit -- we brag about Boise and Meridian and this area being the most isolated population
center in the country, but it has an impact on these kind of events. Long Beach has like
two million people on theirselves, but within 20 miles there is ten million more people.
Baltimore the same thing. I think there are like three million, but within 50 miles there is
another ten million people. Washington, D.C. and all of North Virginia. And in our case
if we don't have it in the Treasure Valley, the nearest is Reno or Portland or --
Busse: Right.
Zaremba: -- Salt Lake City. So, as I say, there is some challenges. I hope they can be
worked out. I'd like be whatever help I can be.
Busse: You bet.
De Weerd: Well, coming from a transportation organizer planner you probably could
help.
Zaremba: I would be glad to try.
De Weerd: Another volunteer opportunity there, Councilman.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: And, Warren, I went through the material and I'm curious, online ticket sales,
is that primarily how you sell a ticket is online or do you have a place people can buy
them?
Busse: There will be both available.
Hoaglun: Okay.
Busse: They will be able to come to a ticket office if they are local or online if they are
not. It will be their option.
Hoaglun: And Madam Mayor and Warren, is the bulk of the tickets online sales,
though? Is that primarily the --
Busse: I would -- yes.
Meridian City Council
March 19, 2013
Page 10 of 32
Hoaglun: Okay. Because I'm trying to -- I'm intrigued by the idea, but when you get into
the details, that's where it's going to make or break it and there is just some -- I'm trying
to pencil out some details here and you talked about 150,000 possibly coming and I
didn't know what your bottom line is. I went and kind of looked at the financials and
when -- looking at Baltimore and with their -- with their ticket sales, 48 percent came
from the Baltimore metropolitan area and, then, another 11 percent came from the rest
of the state of Maryland. So, you have 59 percent. But that's the metro area of 2.7
million, whereas our metro area here is 600 plus thousand. That's two different scales.
So, if you are going to have half come and you're talking about a much much smaller
area --
Busse: Right.
Hoaglun: -- I'm thinking, boy, this is an event that's 35 to 50 thousand, not 150,000 and
what does that do to your bottom line if it is in that range, is it still -- does it pencil out for
you? So, that's --
Busse: Right. Attendance wise I think we need to be somewhere in the 60 to 70
thousand range to -- to break even, to not go in the red. Beyond that, then, we start
looking at having funds for the following year and, then, putting the money back into the
community. So, if we can achieve the numbers we are talking about -- and we are
looking at significant numbers of fans coming from outside the area and a large part of
our advertising budget is geared toward that, you know, fans from Portland, Seattle, Las
Vegas, Salt Lake City, that don't have anything to go to. This would be the only -- the
closest event for them to attend as well. So, we are hoping to get some -- I'm looking to
getting some significant attendees from those cities.
Hoaglun: And that was -- kind of led right into it, Warren. When we are -- I see
competing for fans -- are these fans folks who will go to one race or will they -- if there is
a race in the western U.S. they will be going anywhere the cars run, because I was
thinking, gee, Portland, Seattle, come to Meridian, the Boise valley, or do they go to
Long Beach if they are just going to go to one race. How do we get them here? But I
don't know the makeup of the fan base, so I don't know if that's --
Busse: Okay. You will have both. You will have -- there is some fans that will go to
every race that's viable for them that's within a thousand miles that they can afford to
and you will have some that will have to pick and that's where it's up to us to -- in an
inaugural event you're going to get a lot more people, because it's new and they want to
see what it's like and, then, it's up to us to make that show as good as possible to make
them come back.
Hoaglun: Okay. And when I looked at the courses I'm like it was mentioned earlier,
know this is a technical -- there is speed, but there is also -- it's a very technical race, a
lot of skills are demonstrated. So, route number three would be the route I would
choose based on that, but at the same time when you're looking at the roads, that
blocks the most roads and --
Meridian City Council
March 19, 2013
Page 11 of 32
Busse: I understand.
Hoalgun: -- creates the greatest hardship for folks in that area, so -- but, yet, when you
go to -- I think it was the rectangle and number two that's probably the most boring, so --
that has the least impact.
Busse: Right. And that was really why I presented all three just so you could -- you
could see the variety. The first one I think goes away simply because it impacts
Meridian Road and there is some significant residences to deal with there without -- that
don't have another option for ingress and egress. So, if we get past that one and we
look at the other two, one is a very simple course, simple to set up and simple for the
drivers, simple for the fans. It has -- it's more boring, it's not as interesting, but it has a
little bit less impact on businesses, because it doesn't take as much road up. The other
one is far more interesting both visually on television and in person and I think gives us
abetter --abetter footprint, because what we are looking at doing is not only having the
race itself, but a variety of events within the circuit and I think the challenge is going to
be to make not only parking work, but spectator movement and that's where working
with the police department and other folks, you know, in the city to work on pedestrian
traffic, because we want people to be able to get around freely. If you're bringing a
family -- and we want this to be family affordable, that's our intention, you're not going to
have your kids sit in the stands for eight hours. They are going to want to go look and
do things. We are looking into potentially even partnering with the bowling alley and
having -- working with them for the weekend to where families bowl free that -- you
know, with their tickets. I mean different things for people to do that kind of involve that
whole area.
Hoaglun: Okay. And my last question, Madam Mayor and Warren, is just when those
cars go down a straightaway how -- how loud is that? How many decibels do they emit
when they are going full bore? I was just kind of curious, because you hear -- you
know, I remember the races on TV and whatnot and, you know, I don't know if they amp
them up or not, but it's --
De Weerd: I went online and listened. I know I'm going to get calls.
Busse: It's certainly quite loud when you're up close and they do amp it on the
television, but I know they are in the hundred decibel range.
De Weerd: Which that compares to what?
Busse: As opposed to I think your cap at Meridian Speedway with the night racing is
95. So, it's slightly louder.
Hoaglun: I know who is going to call me from Meridian Greens already then. I hear
about the speedway from them, so --
Meridian City Council
March 19, 2013
Page 12 of 32
~' Busse: Well, the good part of this, though, is that the last -- the latest the cars would be
on the track at any given day I think would be about 5:00 o'clock, so -- maybe 5:30 in
the evening. So, you won't have any night impact at all in some of the sound. It will all
be during the day.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor and Warren, if I recall, there were -- there could be three
different events there, the different classes or whatever you call them --
Busse: Yeah. A number of different races on the track, you know.
Hoaglun: I suppose you have a practice session and, then, there will be a race session
and the same for each class, so -- okay. Something to think about. Okay. Thank you.
De Weerd: You know, Warren, I guess Councilman Zaremba brought up
accommodations and not just the transportation, but the bed accommodations and
those are all good. My -- my comments are comments you have already heard. It's
reaching out to the neighbors and the businesses that will be affected. When we do a
conditional use or a temporary use permit for those that want to close roads. They do
have to go out and talk to the neighbors and businesses along the routes that they are.
This is going to be -- have afar -- the reach is going to impact a lot more people.
Busse: Right.
De Weerd: You might even consider doing a couple of neighborhood business
meetings that -- we could probably help you advertise and let the community know that
-- that it's going to be proposed and they have a chance to come and get more
information.
Busse: Okay.
De Weerd: But the more community outreach and certainly the more you can one on
one talk to the neighbors and the businesses I think the more successful your project or
event will be.
Busse: I agree very much.
De Weerd: And, lastly, part of those that will be affected happens to be, you know, a
cemetery, people are dying to get in there.
Bird: The nice thing about them they don't complain.
De Weerd: Yeah. You know, ISP, our fire station -- certainly are primary fire station
that's three days that they'd have to find atemporary --
Busse: Right.
Meridian City Council
March 19, 2013
Page 13 of 32
De Weerd: -- plan. Those -- those are just additional details and our parks department
certainly --
Busse: Right.
De Weerd: -- what you do with the park, which is -- should be accessible to the public
and I know as people have planned events, we have told them that it is a public park
that still needs to have access to it and I would imagine that the pool would as well,
unless you want to rent it for three days, so --
Rountree: We will let them do that.
De Weerd: I didn't think you would be opposed. So, you certainly have a number of
things ahead of you, but I think you have the right attitude.
Busse: Okay. My intention would be to go to ACRD, visit with sponsors, go to Long
Beach, and, then, pending further questions, you know, via e-mail or phone from you
folks coming back at the end of April to give you an update.
De Weerd: Well, I'm glad you mentioned sponsors, because that did mention a
question that I had. With the recent announcements that the biking races in Boise are
not going to happen because sponsors have pulled out, how do you address the
sponsor thing as you're trying to build an event that is more than just one year?
Busse: Well, this is -- typically when you sign a title sponsor, which is the most
important, obviously, of the event, you look at a three year contract with them, so you
have a little bit of time built in and what's worked at Long Beach is that they have
developed a partnership with Toyota that has lasted 35 years. You know, they found
ways to make the event successful for Toyota in terms of hosting dealers from around
the state of California only, as well as having a celebrity race using Toyota vehicles in
their event -- the specific event within the Grand Prix itself, so I think if you work with
your sponsors to make the event work for them you're in pretty good shape and I think,
truthfully, in an event of this type if you really take care of your title sponsor, if they
decide -- or what happened with Exergy is, you know, they had a bad year. They had
some issues, you know, because of what's going on with the -- with their technology, so
they didn't have the funding. This wasn't they didn't want to sponsor the event
downtown, they just didn't have the money to do it this year and I think if we do our job
correctly, if our title sponsor ran into that type of a situation, hopefully, we have other
sponsors in the wings who want to take over. You know, you typically try to have two or
three companies that are looking to be your title sponsor, so if your title sponsor does
walk away for whatever reason, you have someone ready to fill in. So, hopefully, we
don't find ourselves in a position that the Exergy Tour did or the Twilight Criterium does
right now. And I'd like to have Criterium in Meridian.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor. That's a good question, you know, about getting quality
sponsors, people with deep pockets, people that are committed to the event. You
Meridian City Council
March 19, 2013
Page 14 of 32
know, like Brighton Development, you know, they would be a good sponsor for that --
oh, Mike wasn't paying attention at all. I just volunteered you to be a sponsor, Mike, so
-- but that is an important part of it.
De Weerd: That's selective hearing.
Hoaglun: Yeah. Yeah. That is an important component of it, so that -- and that lends
legitimacy to the event, so --
Busse: .Yeah. We have spent a number of months, you know, with the board putting
together a list of potential sponsors that are significant and local, so that we can go
through those first and -- before we head to the national sponsors. When you have an
event of this type you're always going to have national money coming to the table.
That's just part of the event. But we want to make sure that our companies, the local
firms, are first in line. So, that's where our heart is is to go to those first, get them in
place, and, then, look at the national and even international dollars.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions from Council? I guess -- I trust -- I know you
have a long working list, but our departments I think are going to have to get involved
and kind go over the -- the temporary use permit and what all that entails. It's kind of
like when Ribfest came to town, that event wasn't a go until all of those things and all of
the --
Busse: Right.
De Weerd: -- the I's were dotted and the T's were crossed and talking with the affected
stakeholders, neighbors, and working with our emergency personnel certainly on some
of those items. So, thank you for coming back and anything further from Council?
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I guess just to sum up for Warren, that I get the sense that
we want him to move cautiously forward and make the contacts with the local
businesses and start that, as well as sponsors and put together something that he can
have as a message in Long Beach that we are receptive and tentative at this point, it
kind of depends on a lot of things to come together or not.
Busse: Absolutely.
Rountree: But I get a sense that we are supportive of moving forward.
Busse: Who would be the appropriate person to contact beginning the temporary use
permit process?
De Weerd: Madam Clerk. I love it when I can point to someone else.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor, just to follow up with Charlie's comment. Yeah. Like I said
from the first time, I said I'm intrigued by this, but there is a long ways to go --
Meridian City Council
March 19, 2013
Page 15 of 32
Busse: Absolutely.
Hoaglun: -- and I guess the community has to be sold on the idea. I mean if they go,
you know what, we don't want this, well, then it's -- it doesn't fit -- yeah, it won't be there.
So, I guess it kind of falls to you to -- with your survey, with the information and the
different things and there is a lot of folks out there that will have to understand it, the
impacts and benefits and we will see what happens.
Busse: Thank you all.
Item Items Quad ro osnt ends
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. There were no items moved from the Consent Agenda.
Item ~4ction Items
De Weerd: So, we will move into Item 8-A, which is continued from March 5th on Final
Plat 13-007. I will turn it over to staff. Bill.
Parsons: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. The first item on the
agenda this evening is the Kingsbridge Subdivision No. 3 final plat. This is the third final
plat proposed for that subdivision. It's located east of South Eagle Road, midway
between East Victory Road and East Amity Road. Here is the preliminary plat that you
acted on in 2010. The applicant is proposing 36 residential lots and three common lots.
Overall open space for the subdivision is 12.2 percent and that includes this phase, the
second phase and also the first phase. Site amenities for this phase include apicnic --
covered picnic shelter and a tot lot located on the common lot here as well. Would
mention to Council that this common lot is installed -- at least all the landscaping is.
These amenities will be added to that with this phase as well. Staff did find that this plat
is conformance with -- in conformance with the approved preliminary plat. To staff's
knowledge there aren't any outstanding issues before you this evening and we have
received written testimony from the applicant. They are in agreement with the
conditions of approval in the staff report. At this time I'd stand for any questions you
have.
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none.
Meridian City Council
March 19, 2013
Page 16 of 32
Rountree: I have none.
De Weerd: Does the applicant have any comments? Nice to see you again, Matt.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Hearing no comments or anything, I move that we approve FP 13-007.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 8-A. If there is no
discussion, Madam Clerk.
Roll Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
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De Weerd: Item 8-B is final plat 13-009. I will turn this over to staff.
Parsons: Thank you, Madam Mayor. The next item is the Villas At Lochsa Falls. It is a
two lot subdivision and two common lots as well. This project was approved in 2012 by
-- from Council. It's located on the west side of North Linder Road midway between
West McMillan Road and Chinden Boulevard. The applicant is plating -- or excuse me.
Here is the approved preliminary plat. This first phase just consists of the two
residential homes currently front on Linder Road here. Subsequent phases will come in
after this one as well. So, here is what was before you. During the preliminary plat
hearing the applicant proposed three buildable lots to take access from Linder Road.
You did approve that waiver request for that access point and that common driveway as
well. Instead of having three lots the applicant is now proposing two, which is still
consistent with the approved preliminary plat. Landscape is minimal with this phase as
well. The only required landscape buffer will beaten foot landscape buffer that was
approved through alternative compliance and will basically make up -- be comprised of
trees and lawn consistent with the preliminary plat approval as well. Staff did receive
written testimony from the applicant. They are in agreement with the conditions of
approval and at this time I'd stand for any questions you have.
Meridian City Council
March 19, 2013
Page 17 of 32
De Weerd: Thank you, Bill. Council, any questions? Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor. Bill, if I'm remembering correctly, the reason that we agreed
to give access to Linder was that having three lots there made the configuration very
difficult for getting access internally and even then it was said that if there were only two
lot accesses internally would be much easier. So, I'm hesitant to say it's okay to -- to
move it to two lots and retain the access to Linder. Was there any consideration given
of accessing internally with only the two lots?
Parsons: Councilman Zaremba, Madam Mayor, and Members of the Council, I do recall
that -- that conversation. At the time that we presented this to you at the preliminary
plat we did state that we were closing two -- three access points down to one. I believe
that discussion that I had with you did include that three lots and they wanted to create
that third lot. Under the preliminary plat conformance standards the applicant has the
option to reduce the number of lots. There was nothing in the conditions of approval for
the preliminary plat that stated it would be reconfigured if only two homes took access
from Linder. I do know the recorded development agreement does allow one access to
Linder Road generally in this configuration.
Zaremba: I'm not convinced, but thank you.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Bill, on -- there is a number of site specific conditions that were listed in the
report. Number four it says any detached accessory structure that does not meet the
dimensional requirements of the R-8 zone or span any proposed lot line shall be
removed from the property and I know these are two existing properties with I think
some outbuildings. I have been by there, but, you know, you just don't pay that close
attention to those as you drive by. But dimensional requirements would -- do you know
what those sizes are off the top of your head or is there anything that's going to be
required to be removed from that?
Parsons: Sure. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, you're right, some of this
property -- they do have several outbuildings. I believe one of those structures will span
the lot line. Given this configuration of this lot here it would have to meet a minimum
five foot setback and, then, be outside of the rear setback, which is a minimum of 12
feet. So, any structure that does not comply with that would have to be removed from
the property.
Hoaglun: Okay. And it looks like that the applicant is in agreement or his
representative is in agreement with the staff report, so there is no problem there, so --
Parsons: That is correct.
Meridian City Council
March 19, 2013
Page 18 of 32
Hoaglun: Okay. Thank you, Bill.
De Weerd: Okay. Anything else from Council? Any comments from the applicant?
Okay.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Seeing that we are done, we will -- I move that we approve FP 13-009.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Discussion if I may. I would like to ask the Councilmen to consider whether
the access to Linder is -- is the right thing to do. I know we struggled with it before and
the justification was it would ruin that third lot. If there weren't three lots -- to me the
reason for the variance goes away. Am I the only one that feels that way?
Rountree: Well, Madam Mayor, I guess in response, I do recall that, but looking at
what's being proposed, we still get rid of three access points within a very short stretch
of Linder and end up with one and with only two lots with the one we have a third less
traffic moving in and out of that one access point. So, we allowed it by variance and we
allowed it -- we did not condition the DA with respect to the variance. I don't know -- I'm
uncomfortable with trying to go backwards on that decision, since we weren't particularly
clear on the decision before. But I see there is -- there is a positive outcome in terms of
access.
Hoaglun: And, Madam Mayor, I just looked at -- you know, it's driving by there, because
I'm back and forth on that road quite a bit and it's just a unique property the way it's
structured and having that access point for those houses, well, then, they come off the
driveway, both of them, so they are not coming right in and out onto Linder Road, but
they are pulling into the garage or parking -- it's on -- in and out of that drive -- onto the
driveway and, then, they can come out frontwards onto Linder Road. So, you know,
that's -- that's a positive and trying to make those lots work with the existing plan -- plat,
it's just -- it would be very difficult. It would take up quite a bit of ground. So, getting rid
of two other access points, I think that's a -- that's a good trade off in this situation for
this parcel of property. Sometimes you just got to work with what -- what's there, so --
Bird: Madam Mayor?
Meridian City Council
March 19, 2013
Page 19 of 32
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I agree that -- I think the tradeoff for the -- eliminating the access points is worth it
myself. While it's not ideal, it's -- it's better, in my opinion.
De Weerd: Okay. Madam Clerk, will you, please, call roll.
Roll Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
Zaremba: Okay.
De Weerd: Oh, that was overwhelming.
Rountree: Was that an arm twist or what?
De Weerd: Still the result was all ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Okay. Under Department Reports we will have our Community
Development Department --
Bird: Wait a minute. You got one more.
De Weerd: Oh. Sorry. Yes, I -- you know, we wanted to know if he was awake and
that was just another test. Okay. Item 8-C is final plat 13-010. Bill.
Parsons: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. The last public hearing
item this evening is Spurwing Grove Subdivision No. 5. It is located north of Chinden
Boulevard and about approximately a half a mile east of North Black Cat Road. I have
highlighted which portion of the property is being platted and shown this evening. Here
is the approved preliminary plat back in 2010. Again, I have highlighted what part of
that is being platted this evening. The applicant is proposing 16 single family lots and
four common lots on approximately 6.47 acres. Open space with the subdivision
consists of eight foot and six foot parkways along the local street. North Jayker Way,
which is designated a collector street, will be extended with this phase of development
as well and a 20 foot buffer is required along that side of that road -- on each side of
that roadway. I'd also let Council know that a ten foot multi-use pathway is also planned
Meridian City Council
March 19, 2013
Page 20 of 32
for the east boundary of the roadway consistent with the -- both the Jayker Subdivision
and the preliminary plat back in 2010. Both the open space and the lot count does
comply with the approved preliminary plat as well. Council -- we did receive testimony
from Mike Wardle in agreement with the conditions. However, there are some -- some
minor tweaks that we want to propose to you this evening and have you act on as well.
That first condition in the hearing outline I have prepared for you would be condition
number four, bullet three. If I can go back here I just briefly want to explain what that's
referencing. Currently there is -- as I mentioned to you Jayker Way is coming up here
and stubbing to this property to the north and, then, West Sugar Hill -- Sugar Tree Hill
Drive is stubbed here, so we have an intersection here. We do have a preliminary plat
in process for this property here. We are trying to get both Brighton, the applicant, and
this property owner communicating on how to best extend services and a roadway to
this property. And that's really what the preface of each condition and changes are. So,
basically, we want to insure that this becomes an intersection, a stub street, or at least
the right of way is in place so that access is provided to this three acre parcel and that's
referenced in number four. Number seven is, basically, putting up temporary
construction fencing to make sure the debris stays within the confines of the plat. Staff
is comfortable with that recommended change and, then, site specific condition number
eight is -- also refers to how utilities and what's to happen with the subdivision
improvement that's supposed to be extended to that property as well. Again, staff is
amenable to these changes. In the hearing outline I have referenced the changes
proposed by the applicant in underlined format. The adjacent property owner is here
also, if you have any questions for them, but, really, the intent here is really to get the
two property owners together and just coordinating on that utility connection and street
connections moving forward. Other than that staff is not aware of any other outstanding
issues and at this time I'd stand for any questions you have.
De Weerd: Thank you, Bill. Council, any questions?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: A couple of questions, Bill. On site specific condition number eight our
typical requirement is that they must provide all of the services to and through. We had
not usually left that up to some third-party agreement. Are we comfortable with that?
Parsons: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I believe the applicant attached an
exhibit with his response to the -- his response with the application showing what he
and the property owner have agree to. Now, that isn't a formal agreement by any
means. In the conditions of approval we still are requiring written documentation that
they have worked out that agreement. In speaking with the applicant they still have to
fine tune some of these agreements with ACRD as well. So, there is a lot of hands -- a
lot of hands in the cookie jar, if you will, but anticipate -- you're absolutely right, it is the
intention of us to extend that to and through. I will let the applicant maybe further
Meridian City Council
March 19, 2013
Page 21 of 32
explain on how they plan on working with the adjacent property owner for those
extensions.
Zaremba: Okay. Then one other question if I may, Madam Mayor. The subject of the
right of way. I know there are some property owners nearby that are in heavy
discussions with our parks department about a park in the area. This would be one of
the accesses -- actually, through an intervening property to that, but we are intending
that West Sugar Tree and North Jayker remain public roads. There is not any thought
they will be other than a public road to ACHD's requirement?
Parsons: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilman Zaremba, that is correct.
It will be dedicated public roads.
Zaremba: Okay. Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Yeah. Mike. Would the applicant like to make comment?
Wardle: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Mike Wardle, Brighton Corporation.
12601 West Explorer Drive. And I do acknowledge that I have an uncanny ability to
meditate in public meetings, so --
De Weerd: Multi-tasking.
Wardle: To be involved in the discussion, sometimes I meditate quite thoroughly, so --
my apologies for missing the opportunity.
Zaremba: At least you don't snore while you meditate.
Wardle: Madam Mayor, Councilmember Zaremba, I have actually learned some really
good control techniques. But my question is did you receive a copy of this item? If not,
let give you copies. This was an e-mail that I sent. This is the second one today and
will explain why.
De Weerd: Well -- and if you can get the Elmo out so people in the audience can see it.
Wardle: Bill indicated that -- he was trying to get the two property owners involved and,
quite frankly, we have been involved. We have been dealing with the question of how
Spurwing Grove Five will develop and the Heron Ridge Estates will develop. It was just
a question of not having our engineers get all of the interface elements concluded
before the two applications were submitted. So, it's -- very good. The point of the
proposed change in condition number eight specifically -- and we have no problem, by
the way -- let me go back, first of all, to condition number four, third bullet. We will
provide the right of way. It was always intended to do so. We had made
representations to that effect that ACRD right of way would be provided to Mr. Ewing's
property, the TICO One parcel to the north and east of this intersection. Again, it was a
question of the engineers had not completed their integration of these two efforts at the
Meridian City Council
March 19, 2013
Page 22 of 32
time of application. With regard to condition number eight -- and we are dealing with
where we draw a line for initial improvements and so in a meeting that we had this
morning -- and Mr. Ewing is here and would probably -- hopefully would acknowledge
that, that we drew the line as noted in the yellow, because we have an interesting
property boundary where Jayker Way extends to the north and heads kind of
northwesterly and Sugar Tree Drive extends somewhat northeasterly. So, we have this
very unique acute angle on both of those legs and so rather than build a road skewed
like that, we included that we would complete the improvements on our initial phase with
Spurwing Grove Five, which will be done as quickly as we can get these plans approved
with ACRD and the city. Heron Ridge is still in the preliminary plat stage. They go to
P&Z this Thursday evening and, then, will come onto you to get preliminary plat
approval and, then, subsequently it's my understanding that they will proceed with the
development somewhat later in the year. But we want to get this first part done. What
dawned on me after we drew those lines that it probably doesn't really make any
difference anyway, because the extension of Jayker Way is under an agreement that
was approved with the original Jayker project by the O'Neals and involving the TICO
One properties. The Spurwing side is going to pay 69 percent of the improvements of
that roadway extended all the way to the north to the Phyllis Canal. So, yes, we are
drawing a line for basically construction of the moment. Right of way will be provided.
Mr. Ewing's engineer is designing that roadway down to the Phyllis Canal and we will be
paying 69 percent of the cost of that collector roadway as it goes north. That was an
agreement made when the project was originally approved. So, this is simply
construction staging. As Mr. Ewing extends that street there will certainly be
determinations made -- I haven't communicated yet with ACRD, because we have not
presented this plat to them for their approval, but their mechanism for either collecting
the fund as part of the -- there is a technical term that they use -- I can't recall what it is,
but, anyway, it will either be a contribution made initially or there will be an agreement
that says that at the conclusion of construction that funding will occur. But ACHD's
driving that car. So, I just hope I didn't confuse the issue too much, but I think that we
actually have a solution that works for both parties. We will provide the northeasterly
access of Sugar Tree, the right of way and part through the curb return they will pick it
up and conclude it in that easterly piece, but Jayker Way continues on well off this map
and, Bill, could you bring back the overall -- because it actually shows that extended --
the -- go back -- there you go. It's kind of an interesting piece of ground, but where that
arrow is going there is a sliver of right of way -- it's not right of way, but it's ownership
down to the Phyllis Canal. It's actually owned by the Lion Land, which is Mr. Anderson,
part of the ownership that in conjunction with Brighton that picked up the project from
the O'Neals. So, that's where that roadway will extend down to the Phyllis Canal and so
to the canal we have monetary obligation. So, purely a staging question, Mr. Zaremba.
No intent not go to and through.
Zaremba: Thank you.
Wardle: I would be happy to answer more questions and perhaps Mr. Ewing would like
to respond as well.
Meridian City Council
March 19, 2013
Page 23 of 32
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions for Mr. Wardle?
Bird: I have none.
Wardle: Thank you.
Rountree: Thanks, Mike.
De Weerd: Tuck. I wasn't going to ask John, he has his arms crossed.
Ewing: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I concur with everything Mr. Wardle
said.
De Weerd: But first, Tuck, if you will state your name and address.
Ewing: Oh. Tuck Ewing. 1500 EI Dorado, Boise.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Ewing: And, again, I concur with everything Mr. Wardle said. We did meet this morning
and I think we are in agreement with haw that whole thing's going to come together.
De Weerd: Very good. Any questions for Tuck?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: No. Thanks, Tuck.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Parsons: Madam Mayor. Sorry. One other item to add to you. Currently the way the
construction drawings were submitted for this subdivision some of these improvements
that were presented to you this evening aren't shown on the plan, so the applicant will
have to amend his construction drawings to reflect what was presented to you this
evening as well.
De Weerd: Thank you, Bill. Any other comments for Mr. Wardle? Okay. Okay.
Council, if there is no further questions for our applicant, the Ewings or staff --
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we approve Item 8-C, Spurwing Grove Subdivision, subject to
the final plat being amended for the construction items discussed this evening.
Meridian City Council
March 19, 2013
Page 24 of 32
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve this item. Any discussion from
Council? Madam Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
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De Weerd: Now we will move to Department Reports and I will turn this over to Bruce
F., not Bruce C.
Freckleton: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. What we are bringing
for you this evening is the culmination of almost four months of working through our
proposal for how the City of Meridian should deal with natural draft appliances when
they are installed inside conditioned space in homes. You know, this -- it's just a very
important life safety issue that came to light and our awareness heightened because of
the fatality that happened at Sage Crest and there has been a lot of effort put into this
by our staff, by the staff at Division of Building Safety. We have got Jerry Peterson here
tonight, he's the programs manager for the HVAC division over there at DBS and as you
know we contacted DBS to provide our electrical and mechanical plan review and
inspection services in the City of Meridian. So, Jerry's here this evening to provide kind
of a subject matter expert if there is any questions that I can't handle. So, appreciate
him being here. Excuse me. The important thing to note is that natural draft appliances
being installed inside conditioned space and new construction is -- it's estimated that it
happens less than one percent of the time and on the retrofit remodel installations that
we deal with it's estimated that it's somewhere in the neighborhood of five to ten percent
maybe. So, it's a very low number. But, you know, the hazards are very serious and
we felt very strongly that we needed to try and jump out ahead of this issue. As I stated
before, the state is also addressing these issues and is going to be carrying some
proposals through the legislature to also address the issues similar to the way we are.
We worked very closely with Jerry in putting our proposal together, because we wanted
to make sure that it comported well with -- with what the state was doing, so that when
-- when it becomes law statewide we are having to make changes. So, we are kind of
blazing some trail here, but we feel it's an important effort to take. So, we just kind of
wanted to give you an update tonight as to kind of the staff as to where we are at. You
do have the first reading of the ordinance on tonight. This slide here shows the industry
outreach that we have conducted over the last almost four months. We began talking
Meridian City Council
March 19, 2013
Page 25 of 32
with the BCA, builder, developer, and government affairs council at their meeting in
December. We have met with them four times now and presented our proposals at
each of those. We have taken a lot of comments. We have made -- we have made
several adjustments to the proposal along the way. The list of the groups that you see
there where there was the two mailings, those are the ones that are required by Idaho
statute. We have engaged them twice. Statutorily we were only required to engage
them once, but we felt that the changes that we have made to the ordinance since we
first introduced it to you were significant enough that we wanted to make sure that we
reached out to those groups again just to let them know where we landed on the
subject. So, I also did an interview on Channel 7 and also on -- in the Idaho Statesman
and following those we did have concerned citizens that contacted me via e-mail
questions and so had some direct contact from citizens. Also I've had a meeting with a
utility gas provider and also we held a meeting here at City Hall with fireplace installers
to discuss the proposal as well. So, that's our outreach and, then, I will -- the
amendments that we are proposing, the first one is adding a prohibition of natural draft
appliances in new construction when they are installed in a conditioned space. What
that means is, you know, you're installing them in a closet inside the home versus what
we see 99 percent of the time and that is they are installed in the garage. You know, it's
separate from the living environment. So, the first proposal -- or the first bullet you see
there is just a prohibition for doing natural draft appliances inside the living space and
this will affect all residential occupancies that are governed by the IRC and the IBC.
The IBC is your multi-family, hotels, motels, assisted car facilities, those types of
installations. That particular line item of our proposal really didn't get any pushback at
all from industry. Everybody's -- everybody's in agreement. The second bullet is the
one that received the most discussion and we have changed the greatest. Our original
proposal back in December was to -- if -- if someone was doing a remodel on their
home and had natural draft appliances inside their home, the original proposal was they
would have to remove them or change them out to -- you know, they could change them
out to electric or you could do what's called a combustion closet, which, essentially,
removes the natural draft appliance from the conditioned space by creating an
environment around it that seals it off from the conditioned space. That particular
proposal -- like I said, it's one that we got the most pushback on. There could be a
pretty significant cost to changing out the furnace and water heater. The original
proposal required that any work requiring a permit that was done on the inside of the
home -- in essence if somebody came in and wanted to do some electrical work in their
home it would have triggered this and so we felt that it was -- it was reaching a little too
far and so in our discussions with the industry professionals and others we have backed
off. The current proposal now that's in the ordinance is that if there are natural draft
appliances and you're doing work inside the home, we would like to see those
appliances tested to make sure that they are drafting properly. If they are drafting
properly, then, they don't pose a danger and everything is good. If they are tested and
they do prove that they are not drafting properly and they are introducing levels of CO
into the living environment, then, we have laid out several different ways that it can be
addressed. They can be replaced. They can -- they could create the combustion
closet. They can do make up air from the outside in. The main point, though, is we
want to make sure that those systems are operating safety and that they are not posing
Meridian City Council
March 19, 2013
Page 26 of 32
a life safety hazard. The next two bullets involve detectors and alarms. The proposal
adds the requirement for installation of detector alarms in all residential occupancies
that are governed by the IBC. Currently the International Residential Code requires the
alarms and detectors. However, the residential use groups that are governed by the
IBC, which, again, would be apartments, hotels, motels, assisted care facilities and that
sort of thing, they do not have that requirement. So, we are adding it in. And, then, the
last one there is adding a CO detector alarm requirements to all IRC and IBC residential
occupancies where interior work is -- is being performed. So, again, it's a -- it's an early
indicator of a potential problem and we feel that lives can be saved. So, that's -- that's
where we have landed with our proposal. Hopefully you have had a chance to review it
over the weekend and with that I will stand for any questions and -- if you have any
questions of Jerry here, he's here, too.
De Weerd: Thank you, Bruce. I appreciate your outreach. It looks like you really tried
to identify all the stakeholders and appreciate all those efforts. Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Just to follow up with Bruce that the changes made you still feel confident
about the safety aspects that we are putting into -- with these changes that people can
be assured that there is a level of safety in using your appliances, that they have them
inspected and if they find a problem and follow the procedure that you have required to
be followed, that there is a good margin of safety with those -- using those appliances?
Freckleton: Yes. Madam Mayor, President Hoaglun, Members of the Council, we -- we
felt that by backing off to this level we do feel like it gives us the opportunity to go in and
make sure that the systems are safe. One of the -- one of the fears that I had with the
proposal before we made these changes was that we would push people underground,
more or less. They would do work without permit and, you know, none of us want to
see that happen. We want to make sure that we have the opportunity to -- to make sure
that these systems are safe with DBS's efforts and them being on board doing the
inspections for us, we feel very confident that where we have landed is a good -- a good
alternative.
Hoaglun: Thank you, Bruce. And, Madam Mayor, I wouldn't mind hearing from Jerry
about these changes and your level of confidence if you wouldn't mind coming up and
giving us your thoughts to that same question. Are we still making changes that keep
people safe?
Peterson: Madam Mayor, Council Members, I'm Jerry Peterson, 2876 Hampton in
Boise. I'm the HVAC energy program manager for the Division of Building Safety.. I
have worked very close with Bruce. These conversations are -- regarding the CO
Meridian City Council
March 19, 2013
Page 27 of 32
detectors and where we are trying to go are not -- they have been in the works for
almost two years. So, I have talked about this -- I do trainings all over the state for
HVAC contractors, architects, engineers trying to address this and bring it to the
forefront. So, the -- what Meridian -- and I don't mean to get off topic, but what Meridian
is attempting to do is going to take us a couple of years to do through the legislature
and that's my concern is it's not going to happen quick enough and I don't want to be
there trying to explain to somebody if we have another instance. So, what we are
asking them to do is just to verify that the appliances are working. We don't want to
force them into a replacement situation if they are working. It would take me an
extended amount of time to go over all of the differing conditions, but the draft test that
we are asking them to do considers -- takes lot of things into consideration and the
appliances can work properly and safely in different environments, we just want to
insure that those -- that those environments are there and if they are not what we can
do to make them work. So, I'm very cognizant of the price and the cost of trying to do
this. So, trying to strike a balance there.
Hoaglun: So, what I'm hearing I just want to make sure that we are not -- by making
these changes, requiring the test and, then, if there is a failed test they have to do
certain things, we are not compromising anybody's safety in any way by making these
changes, we are still making sure that people are going to be safe if they have that unit
within their residence.
Peterson: Yes, sir.
Hoaglun: Great. Thank you, Jerry. Appreciate it.
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Madam Mayor. Two questions for Jerry or Bruce or both. You have had a
number of outreach efforts, meetings, et cetera. I haven't heard a general overall
impression that you have gotten from the responses from these folks. I mean one
instance you said this particular item was something everybody pretty much agreed with
and another instance there you got a lot of pushback. But overall are you hearing
positive or the normal hesitancy or what's your sense of what you have heard with all of
these contacts you have made?
Freckleton: Madam Mayor, President Hoaglun, Members of Council, you know, when
we first rolled out the first draft of this we -- it kind of freaked everybody out, because it
was -- there wasn't anything like it out there. Meridian was kind of stepping out,
because we feel that it is an important issue, but through the discussions that we had I
think people -- especially with Jerry being at those meetings. Jerry's -- Jerry's
respected highly for knowing what he's talking about and so you go to these meetings
and when Jerry is there and Jerry's making comments, people listen and they respect
his opinion. There wasn't really any argument that there is a danger and that there is --
that it is a serious issue that needs to be addressed. There has been discussion in the
code councils about the issue, but the codes just aren't there yet. So, as we work
Meridian City Council
March 19, 2013
Page 28 of 32
through it, you know, some of the concerns that came out were, you know, the financial
impact that we would have on -- on the homeowners, you know, especially the retro
remodels, those were the -- those were the comments that we got the most pushback
on and -- but, you know, we talked through it. We realized that our first attempt at the
language was maybe a little far reaching and, therefore, you know, we felt that we could
compromise, but try to keep our levels of -- of effort there to make sure that we
addressed the life safety concerns. So, really, it was -- it wasn't like there was just a line
in the sand, it was a good dialogue that we had, you know, it was collaborative and I
feel like we have landed on something that I think that -- that the industry is going to
grasp. You know, there is always going to be people that aren't going to be happy, but
think that they saw our efforts are being collaborative and we are trying to solve a
problem and not be too overly burdensome on the industry.
Rountree: Thank you. And my next one is for Bill. If it is recognized by this change
that we are dealing with an unsafe situation and we go in and have a permit
requirement with some interior modification and there is an inspection and the
equipment works, but 30 days later there is fatality and it's because of CO and because
the equipment has failed in that 30 days or whatever period of time, are we, then,
brought into that, because we knew it was unsafe to have the equipment there even
though it was functioning properly and, then, it didn't function properly?
Nary: Madam Mayor, members of the public, Councilman Member Rountree, I guess
some of it's the terminology. I think -- I don't think we are talking about that this
technology or the equipment itself is inherently unsafe. If it was inherently unsafe, then,
we wouldn't allow it, the state wouldn't allow it. I mean no one would allow it. I think --
think what -- what we are trying to do in this is create a safer environment for the
construction. So, I don't believe we have a liability for creating either the ordinance or
the inspection that comes from it or a potential failure in the product from either the
manufacturing or the maintenance of it or something else.
Rountree: Okay.
Nary: So, that doesn't expose us to a greater risk.
Rountree: Okay. Thank you.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I have probably a sideways question on this. I think this is great work and
important to do. I understand the appliances and the type of appliances that are being
identified, but how are ovens and stoves that use gas and clothes dryers that use gas
different from this? And they still have acombustible -- they have combustions going on
there and I know my stove is gas that there is no vent other than the -- there is a vent --
Ican turn the fan on, but it's not really connected to the stove, it's free standing and so
Meridian City Council
March 19, 2013
Page 29 of 32
how are those appliances -- make me comfortable for excluding them from this list,
please.
Peterson: Madam Mayor and Chairman Zaremba, the -- carbon monoxide is an
unburned gas, a byproduct of improper combustion. When you have an open flame on
the stove or in the oven you have a complete burn unless there is something that
impinges on that, which is typically a cold pan and so you have a very short duration of
CO. The -- the failure with the draft system is different, because you have a lot more
energy, a lot more potential there and so if the draft fails and the equipment fails, then,
you have an incident similar to what's happened. There are allowed standards for gas
ranges and ovens and the equipment is -- is manufactured and tested and listed to meet
those requirements without a draft assembly. So, is there potential release in the
house? Yes, but not at the level that an appliance, such as a water heater or furnace is
capable of producing.
Zaremba: Great. Thank you.
De Weerd: Any other questions?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Thank you. We appreciate you joining us tonight. Okay. Bruce, do you
have anything further you would like to add?
Freckleton: I don't. Not at this time. Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any further questions for staff?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Well, this will make its way through this -- the process and so
appreciate the conversation and, again, thank you for joining us tonight.
De Weerd: Okay. Item B is the first reading of 13-1547. Madam Clerk.
Holman: Thank you, Madam Mayor. City of Meridian Ordinance No. 13-1547, an
ordinance amending Meridian City Code Section 10-1-3 and 10-5-2, adding local
amendments to the International Building Code, International Mechanical Code and
Meridian City Council
March 19, 2013
Page 30 of 32
International Residential Code, prohibiting natural draft systems in occupiable spaces in
all residential occupancies. Requiring carbon monoxide alarms in new and existing
dwellings, establishing requirements for carbon monoxide alarms and providing an
effective date.
De Weerd: You have heard this ordinance read by title only. Is there anyone who
would like to hear it read in its entirety? This is the first reading. It will be on following
agendas for the second and third readings. So thank you. And, again, thank you,
Bruce.
It 1 a rinanc~
De Weerd: Item 10-A is Ordinance 13-1548. Madam Clerk, will you read this by title
only.
Holman: Thank you, Madam Mayor. City of Meridian Ordinance No. 13-1548, an
ordinance AZ 12-009, Villas At Lochsa Falls for annexation of a parcel of land located in
the northeast one quarter of the southeast one quarter of Section 26, Township 4 North,
Range 1 West, Boise meridian, Ada County, Idaho, as described in Attachment A and
annexing certain lands and territories situated in Ada County, Idaho, and adjacent and.
contiguous to the corporate limits of the City of Meridian, as requested by the City of
Meridian, establishing and determining the land use zoning classification of said lands
from RUT to R-8, Medium Density Residential District, in the Meridian City Code,
providing that copies of this ordinance shall be filed with the Ada County assessor, the
Ada County recorder, and the Idaho State Tax Commission, as required by law, and
providing for a summary of the ordinance and providing for a waiver of the reading rules
and providing an effective date.
De Weerd: You have heard this ordinance read by title only. Is there anyone who
would like to hear it read in its entirety? Seeing none -- what a cool picture is that.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that we approve Ordinance No. 13-1548 with suspension of rules.
Rountree: Second.
Meridian City Council
March 19, 2013
Page 31 of 32
De Weerd: I have motion and a second to approve Item 10-A. Madam Clerk, will you,
please, call roll.
Roll Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Its 1: xecutive ession er I o tats o e - (1)(: T' n i r
and vise It Le I ereentative in en in Liti ation
Into xecutive ession
De Weerd: Item 11 is -- was added to our agenda. It's an Executive Session. Do
have a motion to adjourn into --
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Bird: I move we go into Executive Session as per Idaho State Code 67-2345(1)(f).
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to adjourn into Executive Session. Madam
Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
EXECUTIVE SESSION: (8:30 p.m. to 9:11 p.m.)
Bird: Motion to come out of Executive Session.
Hoaglun: Second.
De Weerd: Motion and a second to come out of Executive Session. All those in favor
say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Itenn 1 uture eating Topics
Meridian City Council
March 19, 2013
Page 32 of 32
Rountree: Move to adjourn.
Hoaglun: Second.
De Weerd: Motion and a second to adjourn. All in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:12 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
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MAYOR TA i DE WEERD
ATTEST:
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