HomeMy WebLinkAbout2012-12-11E IDIAN
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CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP
AMENDED MEETING AGENDA
Tuesday, December 11, 2012 at 3:00 PM
1. Roll-Call Attendance
X David Zaremba X Brad Hoaglun
X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
2. Pledge of Allegiance
3. Adoption of the Agenda Adopted (P.g 1-2)
4. Consent Agenda Approved (Pg 2-3)
A. Approve Minutes of November 27, 2012 City Council Regular
Meeting
B. Off-Site Sewer Easement with Pacific Links Limited Company
for The Club at Spurwing (Easement A)
C. Off-Site Sewer Easement with Spurwing Limited Partnership
for The Club at Spurwing (Easement B)
D. Off-Site Sewer Easement with Pacific Links Limited Company
for The Club at Spurwing (Easement C)
E. Off-Site Sewer Easement with Pacific Links Limited Company
for The Club at Spurwing (Easement D)
F. Approval of Agreement for Interface Agency Agreement
between Ada County and the City of Meridian for Access to
Certain County Computerized Records for aNot-To-Exceed
Amount of $3,500.00
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda -Tuesday, December 11, 2012 Page 1 of 3
All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearing,
please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting.
G. Resolution No. 12-896: Authorizing the City Clerk of Destroy
Certain Semi-Permanent and Temporary Records of the
Meridian Police Department
H. Approval of Bid for the Meridian/Main Split Corridor Phase 2
Project for aNot-To-Exceed Amount of $2,043,875.85
I. Task Order 707a With Hydro Logic for Well #15 Evaluation Per
Master Agreement Dated February 18, 2007 for an Amount Not
To Exceed $92,900.00
5. Community Items/Presentations
A. Valley Regional Transit Presentation Regarding Expanded
Transportation Services for Older Adults and Persons with
Disabilities (Pg 3-15)
6. Items Moved From Consent Agenda None
7. Department Reports
A. Community Development: Review of County Subdivision
Application (Rescue Ranch) (Pg 15-20)
B. Community Development: Transportation Update on Projects,
Plans and Studies -Includes Discussion on Meridian Road
Interchange Design and Amenities; Meridian Split Corridor,
Phase 2; Planning and Preserving for Roundabouts; and other
Roadway and Intersection Projects (Pg 20-37)
C. Police Department: Budget Amendment for Emergency
Replacement of a Police Department Motorcycle for the Not-to-
Exceed Amount of $18,991.00
Continued to December 18, 2012 (Pg 37)
D. Human Resources: Policy 4.3.1 -Donation of Vacation Leave
to Another Employee for FMLA Qualifying Event (Pg 37-38)
E. Human Resources: Meridian City Policy 6.8 Conflict of Interest
(Pg 38-39)
8. Ordinances
A. Ordinance No. 12-1535: An Ordinance Amending Title 7,
Chapter 2, Section 8B Relating to the Fines for Parking
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda -Tuesday, December 11, 2012 Page 2 of 3
All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearing,
please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting.
Citations for Parking on City Property Where Permit is
Required Approved (Pg 39-40)
9. Executive Session Per Idaho State Code 67-2345 (1)(c): To Conduct
Deliberations Concerning Labor Negotiations or to Acquire an
Interest in Real Property, Which is Not Owned by a Public Agency
Into Executive Session at 5:04 p.m.
Out of Executive Session at 6:24 p.m. (Pg 40-41)
10. Future Meeting Topics
Adjourned at 6:24 p.m.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda -Tuesday, December 11, 2012 Page 3 of 3
All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearing,
please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting.
Meridian City Council December 11.2012
( A meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 3:00 p.m., Tuesday,
December 11, 2012, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, Charlie Rountree, David Zaremba, Keith
Bird, and Brad Hoaglun.
Others Present: Bill Nary, Jaycee Holman, Bruce Chatterton, Pete Friedman, Parry
Palmer, Warren Stewart, Caleb Hood, Tim Curns, and Brian McClure.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
X David Zaremba X Brad Hoaglun
X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
De Weerd: I would like to welcome all of you to the City Council meeting. Thank you
for joining us. For the record it is Tuesday, December 11th. It's 3:00 p.m. We will start
with roll call attendance, Madam Clerk.
Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance
De Weerd: Item No. 2 is our Pledge of Allegiance. If you will all rise and join us in the
pledge.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
Item 3: Adoption of the Agenda
De Weerd: Item No. 3 is adoption of the agenda.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Under the agenda for this afternoon -- 4-G is resolution number 12-896.
Under 7-C there is a staff request that it be continued to December 18th. And item 8-A
is Ordinance No. 12-1535. And with that, Madam Mayor, I move adoption of the
agenda as printed.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda as amended. All those
in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
Meridian City Council Workshop
December 11, 2012
Page 2 of 41
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 4: Consent Agenda
A. Approve Minutes of November 27, 2012 City Council Regular
Meeting
B. Off-Site Sewer Easement with Pacific Links Limited Company
for The Club at Spurwing (Easement A)
C. Off-Site Sewer Easement with Spurwing Limited Partnership
for The Club at Spurwing (Easement B)
D. Off-Site Sewer Easement with Pacific Links Limited Company
for The Club at Spurwing (Easement C)
E. Off-Site Sewer Easement with Pacific Links Limited Company
for The Club at Spurwing (Easement D)
F. Approval of Agreement for Interface Agency Agreement
between Ada County and the City of Meridian for Access to
Certain County Computerized Records for aNot-To-Exceed
Amount of $3,500.00
G. Resolution No. 12-896: Authorizing the City Clerk of Destroy
Certain Semi-Permanent and Temporary Records of the
Meridian Police Department
H. Approval of Bid for the Meridian/Main Split Corridor Phase 2
Project for aNot-To-Exceed Amount of $2,043,875.85
I. Task Order 707a With Hydro Logic for Well #15 Evaluation Per
Master Agreement Dated February 18, 2007 for an Amount Not
To Exceed $92,900.00
De Weerd: Item 4 is our Consent Agenda.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: As noted 4-G is resolution number 12-896 and I would move approval of the
Consent Agenda and the Mayor to sign and Clerk to attest.
Rountree: Second.
Meridian City Council Workshop
December 11, 2012
Page 3 of 41
l De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda. Madam
Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 5: Community Items/Presentations
A. Valley Regional Transit Presentation Regarding Expanded
Transportation Services for Older Adults and Persons with
Disabilities
De Weerd: Item 5 is our Community Presentations. We have VRT here to make a
presentation. Hi, Kelly. If you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
Fairless: All right. Kelly Fairless. I'm the executive director of Valley Regional Transit.
Our address is 700 Northeast 2nd in Meridian.
De Weerd: Great address.
Fairless: Yeah.
De Weerd: Thank you being here.
Fairless: Yeah. Thank you. So, I'm going to talk generally about the transportation bill
and some of the opportunities that that presents, give you a little background on that
and, then, Mary is going to talk specifically about a proposal we are working through to
try to take advance of some of these federal dollars to develop services here in -- in
Meridian for older adults and individuals with disabilities. So, do I have a way to move
this?
De Weerd: Caleb will come and --
Fairless: Very good. Thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you. So, the general
changes in Map 21 -- and you have probably heard at various times about many of
these, but I will speak specifically around transit. There was a great emphasis on
program consolidation. So, a lof of the programs that we have operated under -- and
you have probably heard them called Section 5307 and Section 53, we always refer to
them as section numbers. They give you a lot of consolidation. They have completely
eliminated for all of the funding sources that we have had access to the competitive
discretionary programs. No more earmarks, no more discretionary competitive projects.
They have a program around state of good repair, which is really looking at managing
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December 11, 2072
Page 4 of 47
assets effectively, many of the state of good repair funds are related to the rail systems
in the United States as well. And, then, there is a much more emphasis on performance
measures and the requirement that we will have to develop pertormance measures
around our services. To give you a little sense of what we are looking at in terms of
Idaho, under the -- this chart shows around an average annual amount for Boise,
Nampa -- we will just look at those in particular -- before the reauthorization and, then,
after the reauthorization and before the reauthorization we were also getting some
discretionary earmarks, so we factored in about an average of 300,000 that we used to
get for those every year. So, you can see in the Boise urbanized area, which Meridian
is in the Boise urbanized area, there was -- we are seeing less money overall -- a little
less money overall. In Nampa, of course, we are seeing a big increase, because
Nampa ended up getting almost about a million dollars more than what they had before
for the Nampa urbanized area. The Nampa urbanized area is where we fund the inter-
county routes that serve the City of Meridian today. So, one of the other programs that
we were -- that were included in the projects was service funding that is designed for
older adults and persons with disabilities. The way that that was done before is there
was more of a lump sum given to the state and, then, the state would allocate those out
to various regions and under 20 -- in 2013 the Boise urbanized area will be a direct
recipient of 5310 dollars, which we were not a direct recipient of those before. So,
those -- we are in the process now of going through the governor designation. It's the
governor of Idaho will designate. Valley Regional. Transit. as .the. recipient of those
dollars. The -- in the small urban areas those allocations actually go to ITD and, then,
my understanding is that ITD will transfer those to the MPOs based on population. So,
~ the Nampa urbanized area will have an allocation every year based on population, but
will also be able to participate in a balancing process with the rest of the state for
additional funds or as a way to balance the dollars, similar to the way they do the
surtace transportation program dollars. The other program that's new that's intended to
replace the capital program, which is -- we have always called Section 5309 or bus and
bus related facilities, they have now made that a formula dollar -- formula program. So,
instead of allocating those based on application and competitive application, they now
will come directly to Valley Regional Transit, in the case of the Boise urbanized area
and ITD in the case of the Nampa urbanized area, again, to be allocated out to the
small urban areas. So, we are expecting about 340,000 in the Boise urbanized area
and in the Nampa urbanized area about 250,000 of federal money available for capital.
That could be buses, it could be infrastructure. The advantages now it will be a formula,
we won't have to wonder year to year whether we are going to get it, so we can plan for
it. The down side is that it's not very much money. So, between the two urbanized
areas right around 550 to 600 thousand dollars. Now, the way that ITD is proposing --
and it looks like the 's MPOs are agreeable, is that the urbanized money, like the
Nampa urbanized money again will go into -- through the MPOs and through a
balancing process any given year we may be able to access more -- we may not have
as many capital projects and another part of the state may have more. So, there will be
a way for us to balance those and work collaboratively around the state for those. But
overall there is less money really available and the other thing, too, that -- in terms of
the Boise urbanized area, is Ada County Highway District and Boise State University
t used to always access those federal discretionary dollars as well. So, overall, the news
Meridian City Council Workshop
December 71, 2012
Page 5 of 41
is that there is less money available in practice for our region for -- for transit projects.
So, they always ask me to share the really bright sunshiny news and, then, that's --
that's what we know today. So, I'm going to stop here, because Ithink -- yeah. Then
we will talk about the other. So, I will just stop here and see if you have any questions
on the overall Map 21.
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, thank you. Kelly, I know you have identified these as all
estimates. Are these pretty firm, to the best of your knowledge, and FTA's knowledge?
I don't know if the state gave you these numbers or if they are that firm, because they
don't seem to know what's going on.
Fairless: Madam Mayor, Councilman Rountree, those came through the federal
registers that are being posted by the Federal Transit Administration. Early on we saw
some estimates, but these I think are getting more finalized. The one issue we have
right now is that the -- they are basing the actual appropriations today onto 2010 levels,
but they are also showing what it would be if it was being fully appropriated.
Rountree: And what does this funding shift in terms of capital do to Commuteride?
Fairless: Madam Mayor, Councilman Rountree, it really -- part of that is that they will go
through our own regional process and I would imagine that we would have the same
~ kind of balancing process at the local level at our regional level. I know in this upcoming
cycle they are looking at some of the Nampa urbanized money to help fund vans,
because they are eligible, since they will be operating in the Nampa urbanized area, so
I'm not as concerned about Commuteride in the way, because I think we can develop
some of those commuter services through that Nampa urbanized funding.
Rountree: But all in all it makes the job of providing transit more difficult it appears.
Fairless: It certainly doesn't --didn't provide us more resources to do that.
De Weerd: Any other questions from Council?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Fairless: Thank you. And, then, Mary will come up and talk about another project. And
then I -- while she is coming up I will mention that -- that these are proposed -- this is a
proposed project in terms of our understanding today of how these programs can be
used. There is still a question around matching and how much we can match or not
match and we are still trying to work through that, but -- so, what we want to do today is
present this concept, get your feedback and, then, if it's something that -- and we are
working through an application process internally through our -- to get the funding
Meridian City Council Workshop
December 11, 2012
Page 6 of 41
allocated to this project if it's possible to do that. So, with that I will let Mary go through
l the details.
De Weerd: Hi, Mary.
Barker: Thank you, Madam Chair and Council Members. What we have been looking
to do, now that we know at at least an estimate level of what the Map 21 numbers are,
is finding the best ways to use the programs that now exist to fund as much
transportation as we can. As the numbers Kelly showed you show, in terms of our
regular money that we typically use for funding transportation operations in the Boise
urbanized area, we did not get an increase through Map 21. The Boise urbanized area
is -- that we have been calling the small fish in the big fish pond, we are lumped in with
the big cities and we are one of the very smaller areas. The reason you saw such an
increase in the Nampa urbanized area is Nampa is the big fish in the small fish pond.
So, it did get an increase and we are working on ways to -- to make those resources
work the best way we can for the whole region and one of the -- one of the projects that
we would like to propose in a way to help the City of Meridian move its population
around within the city, especially the seniors and persons with disabilities, although we
think we have a way that we can open that up to all of the citizens of -- of Meridian and
all of the people who come in and out of Meridian is a project that we are proposing
.called the Go Ride community transportation. project.. What this does.. is it uses funds.
that are for persons with disabilities and for seniors and we take local money and match
the federal money. The nice thing about this federal money is under this project it's
considered a capital project. At worst the match ratio will be 20 percent local and 80
percent federal. At best the match ratio will be 92.66 percent federal -- there is a nice
round number for you -- and 7.34 percent local. So, by using this particular funding
source and operating the service under this funding source, we can operate it as a
capital expense, which means that the investment that the City of Meridian makes for its
transportation for its seniors and persons with disabilities, if we use it in combination
with this funding source will expand the amount of money available to the city
extensively. So, what we would like to do is, as the slide shows, provide service in
partnership with the Meridian Senior Center and in partnership with Treasure Valley
Transit for seniors and persons with disabilities in Meridian and, then, also open up that
service to the general public. The reason that we'd like to include Meridian and the
senior center in the project is because they know the population, they have worked with
that population, they have transferred that population, they have the vehicles to
transport the population, they have drivers that have been transporting that population,
so they are akey -- a key provider of this service. The reason that we are partnering
with Treasure Valley Transit is that they have done this kind of transportation in other
areas before, so they have that expertise. Oops. I forgot the magic wand. Through this
funding source we would be able to provide about 6,600 hours of service per year in the
Meridian area. That would be two vehicles operating from 7:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. on
weekdays and 8:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.m. on Saturdays. That's just my estimate of what the
service hours could be. Those are definitely something that we would work with TVT
and the Meridian Senior Center and with the Meridian Transportation Committee to
figure out which are the best hours of service. That's just an example of how those
Meridian City Council Workshop
December 11, 2012
Page 7 of 41
hours could be allocated and how much time we would be able to cover and that would
-- the funding would cover about 13,000 trips a year. So, that is a significant amount of
service for the Meridian area. The way we would like to propose the project is that the
service would be operated by the Meridian Senior Center and that, again, because
Treasure Valley Transit has the expertise they would manage it and, then, we also,
through another funding source, have some trip scheduling software that would be
available and so our customer service staff would be able to handle calls that come in
and request for trips and do all that scheduling for the project.
De Weerd: So, Mary, what does operating -- if you say operated by, what does that
mean?
Barker: That means that they would provide the drivers, they would provide the service,
they would go around the community and pick up seniors and persons with disabilities
and take them where they need to go or want to go and that they would be able to use
that service to -- and its funding if they have a standing trip where groups always go on
Tuesday to the mall or they always go on Wednesday evenings to the movies, they
would be able to use this --their current vehicles in this funding source to do those
kinds of trips. So, it's all the trips that the senior center already does and, then, we
would be able to expand that by bringing this additional funding into that. So, we would
-- the proposal that we would like to do vvould be to take. the. service and the trips that
the senior center already provides -- not eliminate those, but fund those using partially
federal funds and partially the funding that you provide and, then, also be able to add a
lot more trips into that if -- if those -- if the calls come in and an individual says I need to
go from my home to the senior center for lunch today, they would be able to go and
provide that trip or if a senior needs to go down to St. Luke's for a medical appointment
or a dialysis appointment in Caldwell, they would be able to provide that service for that
person.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
Barker: Does that address your question?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Mary, help me understand -- I guess you would call it the money trail. If I
can. What Meridian would contribute and what the federal government would
contribute. I assume would all be paid to Valley -- well, maybe you're going to get to it,
so I'm asking this question prematurely, but I would assume that would all go to Valley
Regional Transit to be begin with and, then, what you have as an operator and as a
manager, they would bill you for their time or services or just --
Barker: Let me run through this one slide and then --
Zaremba: -- If you're already getting to that and already have it planned
Meridian City Council Workshop
December 11, 2072
Page B of 41
Barker: -- and, then, if that's okay, Council Member, I can get to that or I can slip to that
slide if you would like me to.
Zaremba: No. Take it in the order if you're going to handle it.
Barker: Okay. Thank you.
Zaremba: Thanks.
Barker: The way that the service is proposed -- and, again, this is just aproposal -- is
that for seniors and persons with disabilities the service would be origin to destination.
We would be able to pick somebody up at their door and drop them off at the door
where they need to go. For the general public we would put stop locations out
throughout the Meridian community and if somebody called and said I need to go from
here to here, we would say, well, then, the nearest bus stop to your location is two
blocks away and we can drop you off two blocks from your -- from your origin -- or from
your destination. So, that the general public would be between stop and stop. And,
again, the regular trips are those trips that the senior center or other community groups
-- like the schedule that they do on a regular basis, they are going to the mall every
Tuesday or that type of thing. Reservations would be required. We do have the
scheduling software to do that and vue uvould be able to handle that... We being Valley
Regional Transit, the ride line there, and, then, what the scheduling software would do
is it would provide a list of trips, then, for the Meridian Senior Center drivers of what they
are going to do that next day. You're going to go pick up Sally and bring her to the
senior center and, then, Joe and his next door neighbor need a ride down to St. Luke's.
So, that whole -- that scheduling software would provide that whole list of trips, then, for
the drivers. The other thing that Valley Regional Transit has been able to obtain
actually in partnership with the Idaho Transportation Department is an automatic call
back system, so that we would, then, automatically generate a call to those people who
have reserved a trip the night before and say you have reserved a trip, do you still want
it and, then, an hour before the trip -- we are on our way, please get ready, so that we
don't have a lot of last minute cancellations.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor and Mary. So, the -- to reserve, then, they can either call in or
can they do it online?
Barker: They can.
Hoaglun: Okay.
Barker: They can. And they would either be able to call in through the Meridian Senior
Center or they could call into us, because the software that we have we would be able
to out on the web and so the Meridian Senior Center would be able to access that
directly and book trips themselves or individuals could call us. Either one.
Hoaglun: Okay. Thank you.
Meridian City Council Workshop
December 11, 2072
Page 9 of 41
Barker: And, then, in terms of the equipment, Meridian Senior Center already has two
existing appropriate vehicles to be able to do this service and the funding, which I'm
getting to, Councilman Zaremba -- would be able to actually help pay those drivers that
the Meridian Senior Center has or would hire to do this service.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor and Mary, just -- to pay, then, that money would come through
Valley Regional or Treasure Valley Transit, as opposed to the senior center,- then, for
the drivers and --
Barker: Correct. What it would be is that the Meridian Senior Center would bill Valley
Regional Transit for the cost of -- of the service for a month. We are just the -- we are
just the pass through, because the money comes to us as the -- as the regional -- the
regional authority, so we would give the money to Valley Regional -- or to Treasure
Valley Transit -- there is too many valleys and transits. To Treasure Valley Transit and,
then, as the Meridian Senior Center performs that service they just bill Treasure Valley
Transit and get paid for it and we can do that on an hourly basis, we can do it on a
monthly basis, we can do it on a per trip basis. We can set that -- you know, the
frequency of the billing.
Hoaglun: ,Okay. Thank you.
~ Barker: Uh-huh. So, Councilman Zaremba, the total cost that I have been able to
budget out for this proposed project would be about 225,000 dollars. The federal
amount is 207,000 dollars. Now, this is assuming the 7.34 percent match rate. We
have not heard that that match rate will not apply, but as Kelly mentioned, the rules for
all the Map 21 are still coming down, so we haven't heard that that match rate is not
good, but we haven't heard all the rules. And, then, the local funding amount would be
30,000 dollars. So, as you can see we are significantly leveraging the investment that
the City of Meridian is putting in for transportation for their seniors and their persons
with disabilities. Included in this calculation is a 15 dollar per hour pay for the drivers,
about 65 cents per mile operating cost, which is just the operating cost that we figure as
we are -- as we are doing -- as we are doing our calculations. It includes the cost for
TVT to oversee the program and, then, it also includes some cost for us to do the
scheduling and provide the schedules for the drivers and to handle all the calls coming
in. The City of Meridian would be the first place that we test opening up this type of
service to the general public. So, if we go forward with this proposed project or
something close to it, we would recommend rolling that part of it out fairly slowly, so that
we make sure that we get it right and, then, broaden that out as we are comfortable with
being able to do that. As we become comfortable with the scheduling and as the
Meridian Senior Center becomes comfortable with being able to handle -- handle those
types of trips as well. The idea is is while we have the bus going around moving people
with disabilities and seniors, there isn't any reason not to put another person on that bus
and make use of all the seats. So, that concludes my presentation and I would be
happy to stand for any questions.
C
Meridian City Council Workshop
December 71, 2012
Page 10 of 41
C Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: If I may, Mary, one more on that same subject. Is there a ceiling on what the
federal government would match? I mean if Meridian said, wow, look at the bang we
are getting for our 30,000 dollars, let's put in 50,000 dollars, is there some point at which
the federal government says, no, we are done?
Barker: There is -- Council Member Zaremba, there is a set allocation amount that we
have coming from the federal government within one of those earlier slides that Kelly
showed you and this proposal would use a majority of that in Meridian. We are also
looking to do a similar project on a much smaller scale with the city of Eagle. We have
not had any discussion with the city of Eagle yet, so there is a little bit more money out
there than is proposed for this project and if the city of Eagle isn't ready to or isn't
interested, we could certainly bring some of that money back to the table.
Zaremba: Cool. Thank you.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Is there any fare associated with this?
Barker: Council Member Rountree, for the seniors and persons with disabilities under
this type of funding source we are not allowed to charge a fare. We can request a
donation. We can charge a fare for the general public and our proposal would be to
charge the general public the same thing that we charge for riding on a regular Valley
Regional Transit or Valleyride bus. The issue that we would have to work out is how to
handle that fare collection and so we would really want to talk with the Meridian Senior
Center and see if they feel comfortable doing that, if there is a way to do that, and, then,
decide whether we want to include that as part of -- part of the program or not.
Rountree: And how do you define and differentiate between an older person and a
nonolder person and a person with or without a disability to qualify for that fare or no
fare?
Fairless: Actually, I will try to tackle that one. I think one of the questions we will have
to ask is whether or not the fare collection that we could -- the fare that you would
actually achieve would be worth the work it would take to collect it and -- and we have a
similar issue in Boise with our fixed route service where it's really the honor system. If
someone says that they are eligible for a reduced fare, based on the honor system they
are -- they get the reduced fare. With the Americans With Disabilities Act you have to
be very careful around someone asking someone if they have a disability or making any
assumption about a person's disability, so that is definitely in that realm of, you know,
Meridian City Council Workshop
December 71, 2012
Page 11 of 41
things that need to be talked about. And just to make a couple overarching comments,
too, we -- we just found out about this funding source in July and have been working
pretty hard to try to come up with a proposal that we think is based on all the outreach
we get did with -- around the region and the plan the board adopted around serving
older adults and persons with disabilities. So, the funding source we didn't expect
would suddenly appear. So, one, I want everyone to really appreciate the fact that we
have a lot of details to work out and this is a proposal and we certainly want to work with
key stakeholders, like the Meridian Senior Center, to make sure that we are -- you
know, we are structuring it in a way that -- that will work, that these are very -- it's very
typical to use senior center or other nonprofit human service agencies for these kind of
services.
De Weerd: So, Kelly or Mary, have you talked with the senior center and gauged the
interest?
Barker: I know they are here, so --
Fairless: When we met -- I can't even remember when it was, because time just goes
by so the fast. But I know that -- that we did have a meeting with them when we were
doing the plan, so it would have been prior to July when the plan was adopted by the
board, since the board adopted. the. plan in July, and had talked about. the. vehicle.
sharing and the -- and some of those options. This was one of the options that came
out of that plan. In terms of the specifics about this particular proposal, no, we haven't
had that conversation. You're our first stop and making sure -- having heard from you
and the -- some of the listening sessions that you have done, we wanted to make sure
that this is even getting close to what you have heard as far as your interest and serving
the community.
De Weerd: It definitely is from what I have heard. And so I -- and, again, I think we
have things to work through, but let's say the senior center doesn't want to be the
operator, doesn't feel that that's something they can take on, would you, then, do the
operation yourself then?
Fairless: We work through other human agencies and it could be done through a
request for qualification and proposal, where they could seek out -- if there aren't any
available providers, then, Valley Regional Transit could -- we could figure out a way to
do that. Our preference is always to try to use the private sector and the not for profit
sector if it's at all possible, because, you know, that's one of the things in our enabling
statute is we are to encourage the provision of public transportation services by the
private sector, so our first -- our first is always to see if somebody else can do it and is
available to do it and wants to do it and, then, if nobody else is available, then, we can
figure out a way to do it.
De Weerd: Okay.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
Meridian City Council Workshop
December 11, 2012
Page 12 of 41
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor and Kelly. So, this sounds a little different than the initial
discussion of -- of taking the senior bus and putting it into the pool and doing different
things, this is -- it's their bus, they work with you, provide the invoices and just so I have
a better understanding of how that would work -- so, if they have folks who come
regularly for the senior lunch and they would continue that, it would be part of the
program, but, then, if someone would make a reservation through them or just online or
call you and they want to go to a doctor's appointment, then, that gets transferred to
them, they get that scheduled, it goes out, they go out, pick them up, take them -- take
them back, do all that and, of course, they would be reimbursed for that. So, everything
would be -- they would be the operator with their bus and, as Mary said earlier, it's kind
of the paperwork folks, the transfer, the point where the money comes to and gets
handled and everything else, so that's -- that's -- I just want to be sure that that's how
we are looking at it now for this -- this option.
Fairless: Yeah. This particular option, as a purchase of service, would operate the way
that you're describing and, again, when we were doing the original plan this is in the
plan, but it was unfunded. This was kind of our idea of a more ideal way to approach it
and, then, the vehicle sharing program is still coming together and there may still be
some opportunities through this project to take advantage of the vehicle sharing, but we
have targeted Meridian based on our conversations as an area where we want to try to
do a pilot that's a little bit different than what has been done in other parts of the
country.
Barker: Also, Kelly, if I might add to that, when I was putting together this proposal it
looked like there was enough need to -- and that because they are going to try and
open it up to the general public to do local transportation as well, that we could use both
of the vehicles that are currently located in Meridian full time, so there wasn't really a
need to put any vehicles into the vehicle sharing pool and as demand grows we may
need to actually, you know, get another vehicle out of the vehicle sharing pool, but I did
look at that as an option, but I think this may well be enough demand for service that
those two vehicles that are already in Meridian would pretty much be used full time to
be able to provide this service. There is the Saturday afternoons and some Sundays
that those vehicles could be -- could be shared.
Hoaglun: And Madam Mayor and Kelly, at some point you will be meeting with the
senior board to kind of go through this particular option and get more into the details?
Because I'm sure they will have lots of questions about that.
Fairless: Yes. Madam Mayor, Council Member, we are ready to do that after you tell us
that you have heard things you like to hear and, again, we wanted to make sure that we
had your input, are we close to what we have been talking about, what you saw in our
plan when I came and presented that to you and just wanted to make sure that we were
on the right track in terms of what your vision is and, then, we will do that outreach.
Meridian City Council Workshop
December 11, 2012
Page 13 of 41
That was going to be our next step.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Just back on funding again. Just a question that comes up from time to time.
At the moment Boise, in operating their system, receives pretty much all the federal
funds. Is this going to be any kind of a competition or is this a new set of stuff that we
are not taking anything away from Boise to do this?
Fairless: These are new dollars that were not available directly to us. So, that's part of
the board process is we go through a prioritization process and probably as staff we
took a little bit of license to say, you know, based on our recommendation, based on the
community need, that this is the best place to deploy these dollars, given that there are
some fixed route services available in Boise and there really isn't that available here.
So -- so, that's going through the board process and the board will ultimately approve
this project through -- in January, at least in concept, as a funded project for going
forward. Did that answer your question? And at this point no projects materialize from
the city of Boise part of the urbanized area.
Barker: The other thing is that given the amount of fixed route service in the city of
Boise the corresponding access service does provide significant coverage, particularly
for persons with disabilities in that area, which is why we kind of pinpointed Meridian as
an area where that service for seniors and persons with disabilities wasn't as flushed
out as it could be.
Zaremba: Cool. Thank you. And thank you for all the work that you put in on this all
the time. Wonderful.
De Weerd: Any other questions from Council?
Rountree: Is there an action required?
De Weerd: I think --
Rountree: I mean I can endorse moving forward with this. I think it's a great idea.
De Weerd: I think they are asking at least, you know, tentative to the funding
commitment and, you know, to, then, proceed in working with the partners.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor, as I serve as liaison to the senior center -- and I know there
was some concerns early on about the initial proposal, about approving of vehicles and
different things and this option I think is a little more attractive. The seniors certainly
want to provide services to people coming there and to the population, so I definitely
think it's worth exploring with them. I mean there is a lot of details to be worked out, but
Meridian City Council Workshop
Decemher 11, 2012
Page 14 of 41
it's an option that I think is worth -- worth exploring with them, so --
De Weerd: Thank you.
Fairless: All right. That will be our next step then.
Barker: Thank you.
De Weerd: I do see two representatives from the senior center. Would you care to
make any comment or you will just look forward to the follow-up meeting? Walt, if you
will come up and -- if you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
Calkins: My name is Walt Calkins, I'm the vice-president of the senior center. I live at
East Lake Creek Drive in Meridian.
De Weerd: Thank you, Walt.
Calkins: I'm just questioning the amount that they show budget. I'm assuming that's
per year. When she states 225 or some -- approximately 250,000 dollars, to run two
buses six days a week, I don't think that's going to begin to cover it.
De Weerd: That's per year.
Calkins: Because you're to going to have to have at least three full-time drivers
because you're not going to have two guys driving two buses and, actually, two buses is
not enough to do them, because you're going to have maintenance and stuff on the
buses, you're not going to keep two buses running a year long without being down for
maintenance and that, so you're talking more than two buses. Fuel costs, dispatcher,
going through that, we are going to have volunteers working in our center dispatching?
We can't get enough volunteers to hardly keep the doors open right now, let alone worry
about taking on a bus system that would require a couple of dispatchers at least routing
our drivers and -- and the volunteers. That's a big thing and I can't see where 250,000
dollars even begins to cover it. And I think two buses is a tip in the iceberg of what you
would need to do what you want to accomplish, your probably looking at I would say six
or eight buses. That's my personal opinion.
De Weerd: Well, I guess my question for you, Walt, is do you want to have the
conversation with VRT about enhancing the transportation system?
Calkins: Sure. We will have the conversation.
De Weerd: Yeah. And they run a transportation system with buses and drivers.
Calkins: I was at the last meeting she was at in May I believe it was.
De Weerd: Okay.
Meridian City Council Workshop
December 11, 2012
Page 15 of 41
Calkins: So, I understand what she was wanting. At the time they wanted to propose to
put our buses in a pool with other communities around here and so I understood what
they was wanting the first time around. Now, this is different, but it's still that money is
not going to cover what they -- the cost, because keeping people to their doctor's
appointments and grocery stores and that and, then, that's going to leave our people
that need -- want a ride to the center from lunch out maybe. But two buses won't cover
all that. It just won't. The area is too big. It will be running from here to St. Luke's, to
St. AI's, and all the different doctors, grocery stores and that, it's going to be very
expensive to do that. That's just my opinion. But we are glad -- we are interested in
having a meeting with them, but we will express our views on it at that time, too.
De Weerd: Well -- and I think that your comments give them an idea of some of the
things to come prepared to talk about. So, thank you, Walt.
Calkins: Okay. Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. We appreciate your presentation and your work on this
topic. Thank you.
Item 6: Items Moved From Consent Agenda None
De Weerd: Okay. There were no items moved from the Consent Agenda.
~ Item 7: Department Reports
A. Community Development: Review of County Subdivision
Application (Rescue Ranch)
De Weerd: We will move to Item 7-A, which is under our Community Development
Department.
Friedman: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. We have received
notice from Ada County of a four lot subdivision application at the edge of our area of
city impact. The site is located between Lake Hazel and Columbia, just down there in
the very southern reaches, and under our Title 9 agreement with the county we have --
or that's the approval authority both of the county and, then, by the language of Title 9
with the City Council. This is a little unusual, because we haven't had a lot of platting
activity in the county in the last couple of years, so you really haven't seen any. I think
last time one did come before you I think we agreed that rather than hold a formalized
public hearing, because you really don't have formal approval authority, that we would
bring it to you as we are today as a department report and trying to gain some direction
from you and, then, write a comment letter to the county. So, it is a four lot subdivision.
It's actually a five lot subdivision. The lots range in size from five acres up to 20 acres
and, then, there is a two and a half acre private road lot. The area on our Comp Plan is
designated low density, so it's certainly consistent with that. Under the Title 9
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December 11, 2012
Page 16 of 41
agreement we also have the ability to request dry line sewers and water lines to plan for
l future development, but this is really so far down there and so far from any thought of
any utilities being provided down there that Warren -- Warren Stewart, city engineer,
said in his comments that he does not foresee a need for installation of dry lines,
however, the property, in particular the north property boundary, is identified in our
sewer master plan for future main extensions commensurate with future development,
which, again, could be decades from now and that we do have an opportunity to at least
request an easement for the potential for getting those future mains in there at some
point in the future. So, the only other item I would be seeking direction on is the
question of the appropriateness of asking for the installation of sidewalks on the western
boundary along Locust Grove Road. I have discussed it with ACHD, they are not sure
how they want to go. They were kind of looking to us. That stretch of Locust Grove is
not even in the capital improvement program. My thought is given the fact that sewage
may not be available for years and years, by the time they would be available these lots
are, basically, big enough where they could redevelop. That might be a more
appropriate time to see sidewalks go in down there, but if the Council feels this is,
again, an opportune moment, then, we would certainly send that message forward to
the county. So, at this juncture we are just asking for your direction on how to comment
and specifically say we really don't have any objections other than we would like to see
the 30 foot easement along the north property line provided on this plat map and
.Warren can add[ess the need for that. more than I can.. So, Barry Semple, the engineer
for the applicant, is in the audience if you have any questions for him.
De Weerd: Pete, can you tell me where it is again?
Friedman: Sure.
De Weerd: It's off of Locust Grove, but --
Friedman: If you look down there is a little circle down there at the bottom of the exhibit.
De Weerd: I can see the circle, but I can't read the --
Friedman: It's halfway between Lake Hazel and Columbia. So, it is barely in our area
of city impact. It's about a half a mile north of the southern area of city impact line.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions for Pete or the developer?
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I have a question for Warren.
De Weerd: Okay.
Rountree: In terms of the easement on which -- which street is it?
Stewart: Actually, there is -- it's actually a portion of the existing driveway to the house
there -- on the northern boundary line is what we are asking for. Our current master
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December 11, 2012
Page 17 of 41
plan -- sewer master plan calls for the extension of a trunk main along the northern
boundary of this parcel that would eventually go and serve both properties to the south
and to the east of this. It's a -- it's a critical trunk main for that area. So, what we are,
essentially, doing is asking to have the right of way reserved for the future and we
usually require a 30 foot wide easement for those trunk sewer lines. There happens to
be an existing drainage ditch along that northern boundary also that has a 40 foot
easement on a portion of it, if not all of it already. What we would simply be asking for
is a portion -- a 30 the foot easement, a portion of which could overlap with the drainage
-- the drainage easement, but probably an additional ten feet, because I think the
drainage ditch is about 20 feet wide and they have 40 feet. We would be asking for 30
feet essentially south of the drainage ditch, so we could install a future trunk line.
Rountree: It wouldn't need anything in terms of easements down Locust Grove to the
south?
Stewart: Not at this time. Huh-uh.
Rountree: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Anything further from the Council? Does the applicant have any
comments?
Semple: Madam Mayor and Council, my name is Barry Semple, I'm with River Ridge
Engineering, 2447 South Vista Avenue in Boise.
De Weerd: Thank you, Barry.
Semple: I'm here representing the applicant. I -- for the most part we agree with what
Pete Friedman has presented. I did have a conversation with Warren Stewart -- I
believe it was yesterday and I did have afollow-up discussion with my client and there
was some resistance to working with an easement, but I think he's backed off on that.
However, I think the -- we would like to see the easement centered on the north
boundary line, rather than the entire easement being imposed on this property.
Presumably the sewer master plan calls for the sewer line to run down the -- that is the
center section and presumably that's the reason why it's strategically located there. So,
we would certainly agree to and support providing half of that easement, as to say, so
that the sewer would be on the property line. We would provide 15 feet of easement
and, then, the properties to the north would provide the other 15 feet of easement.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions? Anything from staff, Warren?
Stewart: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, it is typical for us in many situations
to ask for the easement to be split 15 on either side. In this particular case there is a
drainage ditch on the south side and that 15 feet, if we were to get that 15 feet on the
north side of this property, would land in the middle of the drainage ditch. So, it's
essentially -- an easement in that location wouldn't do us any good, unless the drainage
Meridian City Council Workshop
December 11, 2012
Page 76 of 41
ditch was relocated also. So, we are in a situation where to reserve an easement that is
useful or beneficial to us, it would have to be adjacent to the drainage ditch and that's
why we are asking for the 30 feet adjacent to the ditch.
Semple: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Semple: If I may make a suggestion to move this along. To be perfectly honest, we
don't have all of the detail as the configuration of the drainage ditch. We know that it's
sizable. We don't know -- we haven't done a field survey to accurately locate that
drainage ditch and so rather than trying to specify exactly where the easement would go
at this point, if there were a way that we could agree that an easement would be
provided along the north boundary line and once we get into the detail -- further detail
that a suitable location for that easement might be established.
De Weerd: Does that work?
Stewart: You know, the bottom line for us is that we need to reserve the ability to put
that line in in the future. If there is another alternative method for being able to do that,
if we can relocate that ditch or some -- someway in order to have 15 feet that is actually
usable, then, we certainly don't have any problem with that. What we need is an
~ adequate easement one way or the other.
De Weerd: Okay. Any comments from Council?
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Just a question on that. If we -- to say 30 -- a 30 foot easement will be
provided to be determined at some future point and the county approves this, I'm not
sure what the vehicle is to know where that's going to go or how that's platted or
anything else. I don't know how to -- how to phrase something like that. So, I don't
know if Bill or Warren or -- has any suggestion on that. I'm not sure how to specify that.
Stewart: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I'm not sure there is a real easy way
of doing that. One thing I guess we could offer up is, you know, if we were to reserve
that easement location for the line and was adjacent to or just to the south of the
existing drainage way, we would certainly be open to and maybe we can put language
in that would be open to relocating that easement further to the north or if the ditch
would be removed or to be relocated or something and allow us an opportunity to adjust
that, but also to allow there that as future development comes along, which we don't
know, that's totally speculation, a crystal ball, there may be other ways that we can -- we
can do this, but we don't know that at this time and we presently had an opportunity to
reserve the right of way that's necessary for that line and -- and feel it's important to do
Meridian City Council Workshop
December 11, 2012
Page 19 of 41
so. But I don't know how you specify an easement somewhere.
De Weerd: Leave it up to an engineer.
Stewart: I --
De Weerd: So --
Stewart: Go ahead, Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: No. Go ahead
Stewart: I was going to say, for -- you know, I guess it would seem easier to me right
now to specify it at a location that would function and work, with the opportunity to
revise that at a future date if there were changes that allowed it to be moved or
relocated. And at least we would have it in writing where it is today. I don't know how
to --
Semple: Madam Mayor, I'm not sure how to specify it, because we just have the level
of detail to be able to say we know that there is a ditch and we know that there is a
drivevyay. What we don't know is specifically exactly where the relationship of that ditch
is to the boundary line. It's possible that there may be enough room at the boundary
C line for -- for the installation and maintenance of the line, we just don't have the detail to
tell and contrary -- and also it's quite possible that there isn't room at the boundary line,
but -- and that's what makes it difficult to nail down. I mean as you suggested that's
what we get paid to do is to figure out where the best place for it to go is and I think it's
in everybody's best interest to make sure that it's in the best place that it could be
installed and so, unfortunately, we are at the preliminary level and we haven't gotten
into any detail as far as the design goes.
De Weerd: When does this go to the county?
Friedman: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, given your hearing schedule and so
forth, my goal is to get it to them before the end of the month. I believe they are coming
up for hearing in the first part of January.
Semple: January 10th is the scheduled hearing date.
Friedman: So, I can, you know, certainly talk with the county. If we need to put this off
for a week for Mr. Semple to get some more details and talk to Warren at greater length
about this. Certainly notify the county and say comments are forthcoming and, you
know, get them into them.
De Weerd: All right. I think that would be preferable
Friedman: Okay.
Meridian CiTy Council Workshop
December 11, 2012
Page 20 of 41
De Weerd: But you bring back something more concrete that --
Stewart: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, yeah, essentially, the information that
I have to base that on is we are working with GIS, looked at the photos on GIS. It does
appear based on that information that the ditch lies primarily on the south half of the --
of the property line and it is approximately 20 feet in width from bank to bank. But we
are certainly willing to go out there -- or have the engineer here go out and get some
more detailed information and certainly consider an adjustment to that.
De Weerd: Well, if you can certainly work with the applicant and see if we can provide
more detail, I think that if the Council can be more specific that's -- that's preferable.
Friedman: Thank you, Madam Mayor. What we will do is we will coordinate with the
applicant. I'll talk with the county and we will get it back to you -- ideally if we can get it
back as a department report next week or at the very least get it to you at your first
meeting before it goes to public hearing that will give us time to get the comments in,
but our goal would be hopefully by next week.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Friedman: Uh-huh. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you for being here.
B. Community Development: Transportation Update on Projects,
Plans and Studies -Includes Discussion on Meridian Road
Interchange Design and Amenities; Meridian Split Corridor,
Phase 2; Planning and Preserving for Roundabouts; and other
Roadway and Intersection Projects
De Weerd: Okay. Item 7-B is under community development and I understand that Tim
is going to kick us off.
Curns: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I'm here tonight -- or this afternoon --
late afternoon to give you a little update on the split corridor. For those of you -- I know
some of you get the update on, make sure everybody is getting the information and has
a chance to ask me questions or pass on any concerns. So, I'm going to do that real
quick and, then, hand it back over to Caleb for the rest of the transportation update. So,
as of today with the utility work on the split corridor, the sanitary sewer is now all the
way down to Elm, which is just south of Cherry Lane and, we are, actually, so far ahead
of schedule on that. The crossing of Cherry Lane was done here a couple weekends
ago with the sewer water -- storm sewer and all that's across. We are not anticipating
any other closures of that sort of the intersections. The work at the railroad tracks is
underway to get the bores of the water and sewer underneath the railroad tracks and
we have also completed -- the contractor has completed the boring underneath the
Meridian City Council Workshop
December 11, 2012
Page 21 of 41
creek over at Ada Street, so that's all done. So, things are moving along well with the
utility installation and the project as a whole is still moving along on track. We have --
ACHD has been doing a great job, in my opinion, of posting informational signs and the
detours change and they have been adjusting the traffic signal timing. We definitely
have some traffic out there we are dealing with as a result of the project, but I think it's
probably going as smoothly as one could hope for it to go and for our side the
construction schedule is adhered to. If there is any questions about where -- what's
coming up next. The contractor is preparing all of the intersections for the future signal
locations, so that they can start here in about another probably month or so on the
different intersection work. The intersection up at Cherry, Meridian, Main, Fairview,
that's going to be the ugly one where they basically take that in quarters and close it off
and complete the intersection widening. At that time, of course, Fairview and Cherry
goes down to one lane in each direction, so that's when we are really expecting the
worst of the worst with the traffic congestion. Anyhow, that's a quick summary on
what's going on. There is, of course, the monthly public meeting -- open house
meeting, which is next Wednesday, and we have had good attendance so far. I think
it's been a good venue for folks to come in and voice their concerns and get an update
on where things are. So, I don't know if there are any specific questions the Mayor and
the Council have about the project or any concerns that they would like to pass on. If
there is something I don't have an answer to now, I'm prepared to jot it down and get
.something back to you, so --
De Weerd: Do you know will they be opening up the railroad crossing again or is that
closed through the duration of the project?
Curns: Madam Mayor, at this time -- originally the thinking was they would be able to
open that back up for a short time and, then, close it again. But at this time we had --
they have had utility conflicts out there last week when they were hoping to start the
work and so that pushed things off a few days. So, there has been some discussion
about it probably doesn't make sense to just open it for a couple days and, then, close it
again, so at this point I'm expecting it to remain closed.
De Weerd: Okay. I think that as with any new road closure people think that the road
isn't really closed and so they try it anyway and there has been some turnaround and
that roadway is a little bit tight. I think that we had a business call our office today about
some law enforcement activity, so we have some -- some quirks to work out. I think,
too, there might need to be some traffic calming per se through our parking lot, as
people have seen that that is a connection to Main Street. So, if -- if there can be some
conversations on that. Just --just to assure the safety of those that are walking in the
parking lot, not expecting -- we need to raise the awareness of our employees to watch
out for cars and -- but also just make sure that -- that people are safe.
Curns: Absolutely.
De Weerd: Any questions for Tim?
Meridian Gty Council Workshop
December 11, 2012
Page 22 of 41
Bird: I have none.
Hoaglun: Tim, on Washington they are doing the sidewalk and is that -- is Washington
being closed down or is that -- will it remain open during --during that construction?
Curns: Councilman Hoaglun, that is supposed to remain open. They are just doing
flagging operations as needed in order to get the work done, but it's not supposed to
close.
Hoaglun: That is one of the key routes to one of the businesses that are on Meridian
Road that is closed and they can't access it any other way and it would cut off access if
someone is coming from the south side, you know, or west side, as opposed to coming
just off of --
Curns: Absolutely.
Hoaglun: -- Cherry, so --
De Weerd: Is that closed?
Hoaglun: No. l went down it and it's -- it's pretty rough. I mean there is some big
craters as you're bouncing through there, so -- anyway. It just makes a difficult situation
worse for some businesses, so --
C
Curns: I could certainly pass something onto the contractor, see if they can maybe
keep things a little bit smoother as far as the driving surface goes while they are working
on that --
Hoaglun: Yeah. Thank you.
De Weerd: That would be great. Councilman Zaremba.
Zaremba: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Just a curiosity, Tim. As I understand it, the
construction team is having a weekly Monday morning meeting or something like that.
They invited the public and the local business people to attend that. Do you have any
idea if any of them are coming to the meeting and are they making any comments?
Curns: Councilman Zaremba, we have our meeting -- weekly meeting on Thursdays.
Zaremba: Oh. Thursday.
Curns: Yes. Back here in the back -- I guess that's Conference Room B. It's been well
attended by the subcontractors and utilities, but I don't believe I have seen anyone from
the public or -- or the business side. As you mentioned, they are certainly welcome to
attend, but generally I think it kind of bores people.
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Zaremba: That's probably good news, though. Thank you.
De Weerd: Well, to update the Council, I think there has been a -- there has been a
very favorable response from the business community to what you did in terms of
getting some sign considerations, so I will pass along the things that I have heard for
what you have done in that regard. Thank you, Tim.
Curns: All right. Thank you.
Hood: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Caleb.
Hood: If it's okay with you and the rest of the Council, I think I will just stay here for my
presentation this month. To piggy back a little bit on what -- on what Tim said and a
little bit of what Councilman Zaremba brought up, we are actually also having the
monthly -- they are also calling them town hall meetings, but it's ACHD sponsored
meetings here at City Hall. The next one is on Wednesday, December 19th, at 6:00
o'clock and those -- the first two have been well attended by the business community
and the general public. So, I think that's a little more conducive to, one, people's
schedules and -- and that one gets noticed a little bit better and at least, again, for the
first two we have had a pretty good turnout there. In the memo -- you should all have a
/ copy of a memo that we put together for today's workshop. The first five projects listed
after the little split corridor section of that memo are all projects that are also going on
either currently or will be over the next year, in cooperation with the split corridor project.
So, that's a little bit of a blessing and a curse as Councilman Hoaglun pointed out.
Some people are trying to detour around and they are going to a detour route and there
is work going on on that road. So, the few phone calls I have taken have mostly been
frustration about if you're going to close Meridian Road don't close a parallel route to do
that. There is some efficiencies in that in that Central Paving has most of the contracts
to do that -- that sidewalk, curb, and gutter work on Washington and Carlton and West
4th and some of those other projects listed. So, I think -- and ACHD is getting that
message and I think they have done a little bit better, you know, being a little more
sensitive to that on -- on be careful with the closures in the downtown area, because
people are trying to wiggle their way around at this point in time. But -- but there is a lot
happening downtown, so there are, again, five other pedestrian related projects going
on over the next year while there are forces in downtown that are doing multiple
projects. So, I just want to point that out quickly. And for usual I won't go through all of
the things listed in the memo, just highlighting some of the projects and the things I think
you may find extra interesting, if you will. The Franklin, Ten Mile to Linder, project I
have listed here -- I just got a set of plans -- I actually went out to -- was supposed to
advertise yesterday. I was alerted to a little bit of an issue with some of the fencing
along the storm drain facility. So, this is on the -- it's just east of Ten Mile about an
eighth of a mile on the north side there where the storm drain pond is and as proposed
in the -- in the plans right now there is a wrought iron fence that comes right up to the
back of the sidewalk. So, I'm going to engage Craig Herndon a little bit about what it
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would take to get that fence pushed back and put a little bit of landscaping in there, with
the understanding that the city will maintain it and all that good stuff. But I don't think we
will be okay with just having a fence come right up to the back of sidewalk. That's a
project that certainly won't look consistent with the rest of that corridor once those
properties all develop in the city. So, I'm going to engage him. Just a little heads up
there. Most of my time today are going to be spent on a couple of other projects. The
first one being the roundabout map. We talked about this earlier this fall and I just
wanted to bring it back to you. We have had some subsequent discussions with ACHD
staff, as well as the Meridian Transportation Task Force and I wanted to just update you
on that. In a nutshell, the -- the master street map would be updated to incorporate a
roundabout for roundabout preservation. So, this isn't something where a roundabout
would have to be built, but if you're ever -- if you were going to build a roundabout you
would need to start preserving that roundabout -- that right of way. Excuse me. There
are 244 roundabouts countywide. That's not just Meridian, but countywide. But only 19
of those are in the CIP. So, that's the 20 year -- 20 year programming document in the
five year work plan. So, most of these were either on arterial roadways that are further
out or on local roadways or collector roadways that aren't inthe -- in the funding plans at
ACHD. So, one of the reasons to do this is ACHD's policy requires them to look at
roundabouts first, basically, all intersections. So, they went through this initial screening
criteria and I have listed there on the slide for the initial screening criteria to look at, the
traffic. volumes, the right-of-way, the ..availability and corridor.. functions. .When the
Transportation Task Force looked at this with ACHD staff, they certainly appreciated
ACHD's effort to proactively look at these intersections and they do generally support
the idea of preserving for roundabouts. They did have some reservations about the
map, however. The Transportation Task Force, again, is okay moving forward with this,
but they do request some more corridor specific analysis be done before too much
investment is made in preserving for roundabouts. So, that's what they would request
as development occurs or as resources are available to the district to look at the
McMillans, the Usticks, any of the north-south roadways to see as a corridor do these
make sense generally speaking. So, a little more detail there. The TTF also would like
to see a note or some type of a disclaimer put on the map stating that it is for
preliminary purposes to consider roundabouts and for right-of-way preservation
purposes only at this point in time. They would question how the roundabout map
would be used and could be updated on a regular basis. That was probably the biggest
comment that I heard in summation of the group was they are okay with it, but this
should be a living document and should change as more information comes in and data
gathered and projects happen and traffic studies are updated. Update this map and
change it, so it is -- the feasibility of these is constantly being looked at and updated.
Some of the other specific issues that the Transportation Task Force called out with the
map is really the cost effectiveness of preserving extra right of way if a roundabout isn't
constructed and you have surplus property, if you end up building a signalized
intersection, you have a surplus right of way, what do you do with that. Is it really
cheaper to buy it up front if you know you're not going to -- or if you don't end up
constructing the roundabout you're throwing away money in earlier use. The -- a
specific concern about the roundabout showing at Lochsa Falls development, that's
actually a traffic circle and so they requested that that one be removed. Probably won't
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be widened or any changes made to that. So, they wanted to see that one removed
from the map and, then, there were some concerns business access and subdivision
access if you do build roundabouts at some of these locations. They didn't get real
specific about that, but just wanted to look at some of those impacts as you look at
potential to put a roundabout there what does that do with access, because that wasn't
one of the initial screening criteria. So again -- and, then, triple lane roundabouts, we
had a pretty lively discussion about those as well, so -- but, again, essentially, the
Transportation Task Force recommends the city accept and support the roundabout
maps for now, with the understanding that if it can be updated over time that's the
preferred method to use this map. Some of the discussion we had in October did focus
on the state highways. You will see our miss map. Chinden no longer has any
roundabouts. State Highway 69, Meridian Road, doesn't have any roundabouts. So,
those have been removed. The Linder-Pine intersection was also removed. That was
one of them that came up. You also see on this that the Linder-Overland intersection
still does have a roundabout, which was one of the comments we did explore a little bit
more. That is with the understanding that the overpass does exist, so it would be a --
looking at the traffic volumes north-south and east-west at Overland and Linder, a triple
lane roundabout -- at least for preservation purposes, the district is still wanting to
preserve for that. So, the last thing I will point out before I look for any comments you
may have -- this is on ACHD's commission agenda for adoption tomorrow afternoon.
So, I don't -- I think in my memo I put a letter in support... At#his point it's probably a little
too late for a letter, but I certainly can take forward a message. Sabrina Anderson with
ACHD is also here in the audience, so I'm sure she can -- can take any messages or
comments that you may have forward to ACHD, but it is coming up on their docket for
tomorrow. So, with that I will stand for any comments or questions you may have.
De Weerd: Caleb, Iguess I -- it came up this morning in the Coffee With The Mayor,
someone made a comment about roundabouts and that drivers don't quite know how to
use them yet, so -- and this is not atongue-in-cheek comment either, but I think we do
need to see how the driver's education programs can integrate traffic circle driving rules
or something in it as you start to see more of these in Ada County, certainly in Canyon
county, and across the nation. So, just more in the driver's education type of aspect.
That's my only comment. Anything from Council? It is kind of funny watching people
driving in circles though.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I'm a little concerned about just issuing a comment that we approve the
roundabout map without some kind of conditions. To me that's premature. I certainly
applaud and approve ACHD and their staff of having the vision to do this and to look at
it and analyze it conceptually at these locations, but the general public is going to go,
well, they approved all these roundabouts and that's what they are going to take away
and is there some on here that are just absolutely not ever going to happen still and I
think it's -- it's silly to move those forward, but apparently that's what's going to happen.
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So, I just have that hesitancy in just a blanket approval without -- and, again, it's a good
thing it's being done, but our approval shouldn't cast this in concrete and to me an
approval does.
De Weerd: Is this similar -- I guess my question to -- to piggyback onto Councilman
Rountree's, would be it's -- it's just like a comprehensive plan where this is not cast in
concrete, but it's certainly a recommended consideration and it still is looked at on a
case-by-case basis.
Hood: Madam Mayor and Councilman Rountree, too, I think just to explain a little bit
more how -- and Sabrina can certainly run up here if I get this wrong or say something I
shouldn't in this, but, Mayor, your analogy to the comprehensive plan is pretty accurate.
It's pretty high level. It is -- it will be used as a develop -- developer engages with the
highway district they will look at this map and they will say, hey, we are looking at
potentially a roundabout at that location. The way I see a lot of this playing out is that
developer -- especially if they don't like roundabouts -- will probably hire a traffic
engineer, they will do a study, they will say a roundabout doesn't work best here, it
should be a signal or whatever. But it will be looked at on a case-by-case basis, with
the default being, you know, a roundabout at the intersection on this map, but it's not
cast in stone and that was I think again -- I hope that the highway district agrees to that,
but the approval of this should be we are approving it right now looking like this, but as
we gather more information -- and we will -- we will amend that map. It's not set in
stone. It is for now and this is the best information we have at the time, but as we get
more information we will change this map. and we will zig and zag as we -- we deem
appropriate through -- through additional studies of corridors or individual locations. So,
again, that I heard several times and I think, Councilman Rountree, I mean I hope that's
how it is used is right now this looks okay, yeah, you might have missed some -- and I
guess that would be my other comment. If there is one or two or more of these right
now that you say we don't like a roundabout there, even not having the technical -- if
there is something you don't like still on here, let me know if it's specific to an
intersection and we can -- I mean we can definitely call that out. But in general this will
be used at a high level and more particular -- certainly before it goes into the program
and gets to be constructed they will look at it to see what the intersection configuration
needs to look like.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: While all us in this room understand that this isn't in concrete, the average citizen
that looks at this or the average developer is going to think it is in concrete. The same
thing we -- we have had with -- with parks with our green symbol out on our
comprehensive plan for parks and a guy looks at that and says, oh, I think I will develop
here, because I'm going to have a park over here. Well, it don't wind up being that. I'm
like Councilman Rountree, I -- while I applaud ACHD for doing this and like it and stuff, I
don't want to see -- I don't want it set in concrete, because I'm like him, some of these
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are never going to go, nor should they go.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor? And I agree with the comments that have just been stated by
Councilman Rountree and Councilman Bird, because there are some things -- there is
one in Bridgetower Subdivision. They show a roundabout that just does not fit. I have
no idea why that is there and it makes no sense. They will take out a playground, eight
car lengths from that intersection it's a road that goes through and it ties into Copper
Cloud. There is an outlook for a subdivision that comes into that. I was looking at it the
other night going I don't know how they make this work, but -- or why there is even a
need for them. I would want to see the traffic counts and maybe, you know, all the
moms taking their kids to school in the morning there is a little bit of traffic there, but --
and we are nearly at full build out in that -- in that development and I think traffic --traffic
task force maybe had a good idea about how this map is titled, because it's preliminary,
it's a concept, it's -- it's not -- anything that shows it's not set in stone, it's just a concept
that they are looking at. Something that changes that name, because as Councilman
Bird said, it's like our parks, people look at that and -- if I show this to our neighbor, what
do you mean they are going to build a roundabout in our neighborhood. So, I guess it's
maybe how the wording is, as opposed to -- and maybe Sabrina if you will help us on
that.
Anderson: l'm just on my up. Madam Mayor and Council. Caleb did specify. how it's
going to be and the intent is the way your Transportation Task Force is discussing. This
/ is not astand-alone map that somebody comes in as a developer or we all use the
projects and we say, well, what does the map say. It is live intentionally in our master
street map. The same way and place that -- how many lanes a road is going to have.
We may say we are preserving for five lanes the intersection at Amity -- or five lanes on
this intersection of Lake Hazel. We all know that it's going to be awhile until we get
there and it's really dependent upon how and when the development actually occurs as
to what happens. The way it kind of goes down from there and why you see a
difference in layers between the 200 and some odd layer of maps, there would also be
Latin, that way every map has a 19 on it. How we get from the 200 and some odd to
the 19 is how does development occur, how does the developer come in, how does an
ACHD project happen or a city project and, then, we take a look at that either through
our capital improvements plan process, which is designated in three years, or as a
project team process or coming in and saying we need to do an improvement on this
intersection. Well, the map says a roundabout will work from a technical basis. It's
typically okay from aright-of-way basis. There is always going to be additional needs
before it gets down to that map that currently only has 19. The only other thing that I
would reiterate that maybe hasn't been well enough communicated is the master street
map that you all were a part of developing how many lanes, puts the lanes in context,
we have an amendment process in place that every year we go back to our commission
and say here is things that need to change on the master street map. An example of
that is the south Meridian study that we worked on together. That came up with an
output and some of our comments that need to adjust the master street map. Some of
that had to do with the number of lanes, some of it had to do with the timing of projects,
we adjust that every year. We take it back -- kind of the clean-up process, say here is
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the things that are adjusted or happened throughout the year. These are in our
presentation to our commission. Tomorrow we are clear on that. Here is the difference
between 200 and some odd layers, the 19 layers, and how does it get more program.
Because on the flip side we have some cities who are saying there is only 19 and there
is hardly any in our city, how do we get more. Same thing. We got to go through what
happens with the demographics and if we find something like the one in Bridgetower -- I
know with that thinking how is that there. It's saying it will work from a traffic
assessment and, actually, they took a look at it from aright-of-way assessment, how
well that will change in 20 years -- there may be changes. I mean if you get enough
commercial on each side of that area of Bridgetower that along the roads you might see
people coming through on that cluster. Doesn't mean they are all going to want that by
the time we get there, but it is feasible. If we don't preserve the right of way now, as
things develop out it will be more expensive.
Hoaglun: And I guess, Madam Mayor and Sabrina, on that where we have existing
development, with the roads already built, the houses are there, everything is there, I
mean we don't need to preserve right of way, because nothing is going to be built. You
have got the pathway for the drain, you have got the playground, so from a preservation
standpoint it's a little different than going in someplace new, so --
Anderson:. Right.
Hoaglun: -- I don't know if we need to differentiate those from existing versus things
that need to be preserved.
Anderson: Yeah. Madam Mayor and Council Members, the tricky part of that is not
knowing -- even from our perception or probably yours, how things are going to be
redevelop in the time frame of our master street map. We feel it's at least a 20 year
map. But just like your Comprehensive Plan map, we are going to have to look at it in
terms of a built out scenario. So, in most cases that you see that in Meridian, it's
relatively fresh development where it's probably not going to turnover, but from an
operation perspective it would work if the redevelopment occurs even the way that your
comprehensive plan shows it. We see this a lot in the city of Boise. If you want a
roundabout you look at the Boise side of the map. But they are in fully built out areas.
But according to how the demographics were approved, they came through COMPASS,
that area could show enough demographics where there would be redevelopment
where you might need a different traffic signal. You might need something as it
develops. So, your points are well made and I will make sure that that's gets
communicated to our commission. But that is the intent behind it is we don't want to be
so limited and so focused we are not looking far enough out. So, it's a balance.
De Weerd: Anything else? Any other comments?
Rountree: I guess I just want to test that. A question for Caleb. Caleb, you indicated
you had just received the plans on Franklin. On this map it shows three roundabouts on
the project length. Does that set of plans show future right of way acquisition for
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December 11, 2012
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roundabouts?
Hood: Madam Mayor, Councilman Rountree, the plan set does not show, you know,
any future need for right of way. Now, if somebody comes in at that -- or when
somebody comes in, because the south side hasn't really developed at a couple of
those locations, ACHD may look at this map and say, hey, that's a starting point for the
discussion. We show a roundabout at this location or these two locations, let's explore
that with you.
Rountree: And the Mayor will get a call from a public who doesn't understand ACHD
isn't responsible for having just built that road, why now that they are going to develop
they want more right of way. That's the issue I have with this. I think it's great, but if
you have got those situations, you're just creating heartburn for ACHD's board and the
city and there is a few that are minor. There is a lot of them that are perfectly fine.
They are in undeveloped areas and they are -- you have rocked and roll with those.
But, man, when you're just finishing your design on a -- on a major improvement that is
going to get changed, given the funding we have for transportation in this community for
the next 50 years. So, again, I say let's approve this thing conceptually, but understand
that there is things that already are not on here that are going to work and that it -- it
ought to be titled Conceptual Roundabout Traffic Analysis Plan.
Anderson: Madam Mayor, Councilman, I just wanted to address Franklin, for example.
C It's a good example of -- as Caleb said, when the south side is developed or when you
get additional development proposals, there most likely will be mid mile collectors put in,
that's why those -- they are shown there, is that as in the future, not in the next ten
years, but maybe inside of 20 years. But when you see something that occurs that the
trigger is kicked that needs some sort of signalization or roundabout, it shows that a
roundabout will work at that location, because something will be done in that location.
We may finish the roadway, but it's very likely something will happen and we will have to
come and do an intersection treatment. What this shows is how will that intersection
treatment be approached. Not that in five years we as an active project are going to go
rip it up, but we have seen places where we have had to go back and do an intersection
improvement after the roadway has already occurred. This is about what kind of
treatment would that be and will it work in that situation. Clarification definitely needs to
be provided for that, because I can understand and we get the calls, too. Does this
mean you're going to go build a roundabout. That's not the purpose of this anymore
than it is on the master street map. But by titling it maybe that would be an assist. Just
want to make sure. That's how Franklin would transpire is when something comes in.
Kind of like Records, you know, when Records comes in along Fairview. A park gets
built, you get additional development, when something has to go in, will a roundabout
work? Will a signal work? That's the intention of this is to help guide those decisions.
Hood: So, Madam Mayor and Council, I have some notes here and Ican -- I can take
those forward tomorrow if you would like. Are you okay with how -- Councilman
Rountree kind of summarized it at the end, you know, some type of change to the title,
it's conceptually approved or conceptual roundabout -- I don't know what that note looks
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like that are asked to the commission as -- as they review this tomorrow or do we want
to ask for more time to -- to really get -- I don't know if we will get it exactly right,
because I think It's going to change over time, even if we pull some of those off that we
think are never feasible, over time there is going to be more and more of these that
come up that will probably end up coming off of the map, but --
De Weerd: I think, Caleb, it's safe to say that, you know, I believe that the city is
supportive of roundabouts and appreciate the efforts in -- in putting it on paper, because
I remember the ACHD of the past that wouldn't even let us show aconnecting -- or
connector roads. So, this is -- this is a forward thinking document, but I think that we
would like some assurance that it is on a case-by-case basis, that we would continue to
work closely on where these are warranted and have the conversations. Any addition,
Mr. Hoaglun?
Hoaglun: And anything that points to this -- it's a long range look -- I mean as Sabrina
pointed out, I mean things do change. You know, it might be 25 years from now when
something that -- like that would be warranted, but, you know, people look at it as being
here and now and within the next five years and something that helps convey that -- that
it's potential and it's long range, so --
Hood: And I probably didn't do a good job, Madam Mayor and Council .The first bullet
on there is probably the biggest one in this whole deal. It can go the other way. If
you're going to plan for a signal and, then, you want to build a roundabout, you basically
can't. So, this map is meant to -- your worst case scenario. Doesn't mean you're going
to build it, it just says if you ever wanted to you need to start preserving to do that. So, I
know it's tough to get that message to a developer, they see the map, they say, what,
you got a roundabout there, that makes no sense. Well, it's there may be a roundabout
there and we are going to talk about that as we talk to you about developing. So, I can
-- I will forward that message on, but, I'm sorry, I kind of skipped over that point and I
think it's critical, because that's really the intent here is we are -- we are trying to not
have to buy back buildings if you do want to put -- if you go, wow, a roundabout is the
only thing that works here, but, guess what, we pushed all the buildings there at the
intersection, all the parking lots, we had to buy all the landscaping, you can't do a
roundabout anymore. So, that's really the -- the true intent of this. Now, we did want to
make sure that message gets to everybody, but -- so, I can -- I can carry that forward
and the assurances, Mayor, that you mentioned about how this will be used case-by-
case basis and we support roundabouts generally. I can carry that forward. So, thank
you for the discussion.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I don't know if this helps, but maybe just taking the title and adding the word
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December 11, 2012
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preservation. Ada County Roundabout Preservation Study. I don't know if that -- I
mean my sensitivity, I agree, is when the general public looks at this how warned are
they that this is not etched in stone before they make all the calls. So, maybe just the
word preservation added in the title somehow might help.
Hood: I'll request that, too, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Something that the
title -- some amendment to the title of this map to hopefully convey that message that it
isn't set in stone.
Zaremba: Yeah.
Hood: Okay. Well, one more thing that we would like to discuss with you this afternoon
and it has to do with the Meridian Road interchange. So, on November 8th we had an
Interchange Task Force meeting and we had members of ITD headquarters and District
Three, Connecting Idaho Partners in attendance. In fact, I think -- no. Probably about a
one-to-one ratio. I was going to say we were outnumbered, but there was six or eight
non-task force members there and about the same of our membership. It was noticed
at that meeting that Parametrics has been selected by ITD to do the design of the
interchange project and that RBCI, Rosemary Curtin will be doing the public
involvement piece of that project. They did also confirm that the SPUI is the preferred
.design that they vuill be moving forward with and that design delivery is anticipated. for
the fall of 2013, with construction in early 2014 and should be done mid 2015. So,
hopefully, before the summer season of 2015. There was a pretty solid
acknowledgment of our pedestrian safety needs and the existing condition out there and
that this is a gateway to the heart of downtown Meridian. Today what I really wanted to
focus on was just kind of an update of what --the update that was given to us from ITD
forces. Today I really want to take that next step and engage your level of interest in
some of the aesthetic elements, maybe a potential theme, if you want to pay on for the
interchange and how much maintenance, just generally speaking, high level, we may
want to take on with this project. ITD basically told us on that meeting a month ago that
they are willing to design and install whatever we want, as long as we agree to maintain
it forever and we don't go over the 40 million dollar budget for the project. Essentially
that was their message to us. So, they seemed very willing to explore different
aesthetic amenities with us, but we probably won't have a lot of funds to do those
things, just kind of ball parking some of the estimates for this project.
De Weerd: Caleb, was parks at that -- at that meeting? Any park staff?
Hood: Madam Mayor, parks was not represented. Oh, I take that back. Matt Stahl, the
parks -- one of the parks commissioners, was there. The Parks Department wasn't
necessarily represented during that Interchange Task Force meeting.
De Weerd: Okay.
Hood: So, the Interchange Task Force, which is made up of, you know, Chamber,
MDC, City Council, business owners, all said the look of the interchange is important
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and it should be as nice -- I will use their quotes there -- nice, if not nicer than Ten Mile.
So, Ten Mile is kind of the baseline, the bare minimum we want to see this thing,
because, again, it is the gateway, there is a need for it to look very attractive. So, at the
top level we would like to carry forward some of the concepts and investments we have
already made as a community on Main Street and kind of carry those forward into this
project. Other than that we are just really starting to kind of understand maybe what we
can -- what we can get out of this project. So, as an example for Ten Mile it is a little
more -- more formal. There is sod and turt, so, therefore, more water. Now, in that
case we will be using the purple pipe, so your water costs aren't as high, but
maintenance is about 50,000 dollars a year to maintain the interchange and the
surrounding nearby landscaping there. There is -- it's hard to kind of tell in the
wintertime when things are starting to go dormant and aren't as colorful, but it's less
integrated between some of the smaller areas, the open spaces and some of the larger
-- the island areas and some of the area slopes and things like that, there is less
integration. But that's -- that's some of the -- one of the concepts certainly we are
evaluating and is on the table and something similar to Ten Mile. This is our -- I was
just talking about is some of the elements on Main Street and there certainly can be
others again, we are just kicking this off really, but looking at some of the things that
happened on Main Street and tying that into the interchange, making sure that it's
seamless, it doesn't look out of place, either one of them, that they talk to each other if
you. will., as you transition into downtown, particularly the north side, -although we will
look to the south as well. Some of the -- some of the things, you know, that the split
corridor phase one project did is a little bit lower water use, because they barked a lot of
the areas, there isn't any sod, it's all ground cover with either perma bark or bark there,
less regular maintenance. However, it isn't as colorful and maybe as striking some of
the other landscape elements could be. So, that's just kind of a precursor. I want Brian
McClure -- Brian, you can come up now -- to kind of run through some of the things he's
been working on the past few weeks. Certainly feel free to interrupt him. I would
encourage you to and I don't say that disrespectfully to Brian, but we are looking for
some feedback. If there is something you like, something you don't like, something that
-- you know, particularly there is something you're like that's never going to fly or
something that, hey, I like something along in that vein, again, we are not trying to push
anything on you today necessarily, we are just trying to gauge your level of interest and
where you would like us to spend some more time and energy maybe developing
something or not. So, that's why we are here today and Brian is the right guy to do that.
So, Brian.
McClure: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I'm just going to kind of flip through
some slides here and as Caleb said if you want to interrupt me feel free. This is kind of
a high level thing to consider with interchange. The one you're seeing here is one I
have worked on in California before over Interstate 5 in a road to be extended called
Cosumnes River Boulevard. The first thing to kind of consider are entryways, as Caleb
pointed out. The drainage and slope areas, the orange colored one there, these are
signals, usually they are a little more detailed and, then, deck and fagade design, stuff
like stamps, kind of things, things like that. Again, context sensitivity. This is what we
have got going on now right as you get off and is continued down Main Street. So, kind
Meridian City Council Workshop
December 11, 2012
Page 33 of 47
of continuing that. In terms of drainage and slope areas, typically these areas are large,
not necessarily the case with SPUIs so much in terms of visible area, but they certainly
are one complaint that's heard frequently are they just look like weeds and grasses that
was put into them. You know, in these cases I think trees do a lot. They draw your eye
up and you go from something that looks barren and dead to something that looks like
it's -- it was there. Do we want trees in these areas?
De Weerd: That has -- or maybe I should ask Councilman Rountree. Have they put
trees in those areas?
Bird: No.
Rountree: Yes. The example of the attempt to try to do that is at Cole and the
interstate in the ramp as you go out eastbound and swing up towards either going to
Costco or back around to Overland. There is a loop ramp -- there is a loop in there
that's like your picture in the upper left-hand corridor that you just had and it's -- it's dry
and there is trees planted around the edges of the off ramp. Not very successful. I
have the feeling it probably has a lot to do with the irrigation system.
De Weerd: Okay.
Hoaglun: And, Madam Mayor, that's the thing, yeah, trees would look great, but being
i semi arid desert, high desert, it's, you know, type and availability of water and making
~~ sure it's regular. There is a number of things that go into that, so --
McClure: There is also just the appropriateness of it as well. You have to maintain the
pressure tension zone, you need to maintain the lines of sight, there is a lot of things
that go into it. They are possible, though, so it's a consideration. If you guys don't want
them it's not really something we can treat with, so --
De Weerd: Yeah. I just wanted to make sure it would be a consideration if -- before I
got excited about putting trees there, so -- I like trees.
Rountree: It's doable if done right, yeah.
De Weerd: Yeah. Okay. Thank you.
McClure: This is kind of a landscape plan for a large open area. I have got two of
these. This one just basically -- the dashed line you see there are kind of the top and
bottom of the slope. The gray area you see is kind of a rock by a swell, sort of natural
drainage area. The trees are all kind of centered on the hillside where you're most likely
to see them. This one's a little similar, has a little more detail on it. There is multiple
ground cover used on some of the -- the slopes, but, again, the large open area is
mostly just grass. You don't necessarily have to do this just grass, there is other
materials you can use. Certainly you can use bark -- perma bark, but you can also use
accent colors, things you don't have to really maintain, different colored rocks, large
Meridian City Council Workshop
December 11, 2012
Page 34 of 41
rocks. There is a variety of obvious landscape elements you can incorporate into the
design. Are you guys interested in seeing stuff like that? Landscape forms on the
image on the right you will see -- that's not just a straight ditch, there is some wild
flowers there, but more importantly to me anyways is that it meanders. It's more of an
interesting form and it looks like someone put some effort into it, so -- the one on the
bottom left you will see some trees outside of this central area, but, again, mostly just
kind of grasses in the middle. Again, just kind of more materials. This is definitely --
this is --these are out of Utah, very arid, too. But, you know, we don't necessarily have
a lot of, quote, native species around here, but there is certainly a lot of things that we
can use that look native, if that's of interest to you. And, then, overall on this -- so, this
is an illustration of -- this is, basically, just kind of a wave, a reflection of water and so
you see a lot of arcs and curves and circles and elements of that nature in this, but, you
know, do we have a thing we want to carry forward, is there something that we want to
convey through our design, we can incorporate these things into the -- the fencing, into
the facade of the architecture of the bridge itself, into monument pieces on the actual
deck of the bridge.
Hoaglun: So, Brian, just to make sure, onto the deck itself or the fencing, so if we
wanted like our logo, if you wanted to put that on the -- the fencing is that included in the
budget as long as it doesn't go over their 40 million or is that something that we would
have to pay for if there is some artistic. element? Doesn't have.to be Meridian, .Idaho,
with the swooshing star, but anything we want to put on, as long as it's within their
l budget we are okay?
Hood: Yeah. Madam Mayor, Councilman Hoaglun, talking with them Ithink -- I don't
know that I would say everything is on the table, but certainly they were open to
installing most of our needs kind of depending. Now, something like that that's specific
that we may want to have somebody weld something for us and put it on the railing of
the pedestrian bridge, we are actually having a little bit more of that discussion -- on this
Thursday we have another meeting and we will talk a little bit about that, what we can
and can't do with that pedestrian railing, because there are some specifications that
need to be adhered to for those -- for those -- those railings and certainly that's highly
visible, so we could do some things on the railing, kind of figuring out what that is.
Bruce Harold is going to bring several examples of what's been done with other
GARVEE projects for us to look at. But, again, as a general rule they said if you don't
go over budget we can put it in and you maintain it, we will look at it, doing it, to make it
meet the needs of your community.
McClure: Some more built examples. You can see top left has a very interesting
monument and, then, some very special railing. The one -- the middle right is a little
more -- well, it's low key and, then, the bottom line on the left has some retaining walls,
rather than a steep slope. So, just something to consider. Some fencing examples
here. The one on the left is, you know, your traditional formal fence, nothing with
special -- the one on the right has some wave elements. You could certainly
incorporate them, welcome to Meridian. Tim probably hates me for not including it, but
there is an example of some cities that have put their name using some raw materials in
Meridian City Council Workshop
December 11, 2072
Page 35 of 41
here -- he really wanted me to include in the PowerPoint. And the one on the bottom
left is an example of a pedestrian barrier next to a rail. So, you have really isolated the
pedestrian environment in that case. More examples we can do with stamps and
concrete and textures and dyes and -- I mean it's really a lot of things. The one on the
bottom left is a median. I know that Caleb and I went out to Ten Mile last week and
someone had driven through the median, tore up a bunch of the irrigation heads, bark
was all over the road, perma bark, which is rock, was all over the road. You know,
something like this might be appropriate, too. It's just stamped concrete. It's a little bit
nicer than what you would see on Eagle Road, the red brick.
De Weerd: I think everything is nicer than what you see on Eagle Road.
McClure: This is an example of doing something nice using a stamp, so you're not
necessarily -- you're not stuck with Eagle Road if you don't want it. Again, focusing on
the pedestrian element here, the same -- same really there. On the left you can see
Ten Mile as it exists now. To be fair, there is a buffer there from the lane, but that's an
abrupt edge and a pretty narrow walk with no -- connecting people on the sidewalk.
And, then, just kind of moving in the other options. This is extreme I know for this area.
It's very southwest, but, you know, from a design standpoint you can do less with more.
So, if you guys have other thoughts there is certainly -- you know, you can do a lot of
different things. This is very -- you know, very. few types of ground cover --.it's actually
rock -- different colored rock and very few trees, but they did something that was
interesting and thematic for where they live. So, you know, we can explore other
options, too. This is just kind of step through some things that we thought would be --
resemble Main Street in existence today. And if there is any other questions or direction
I'm happy to take them.
De Weerd: Council, any questions or comments?
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor, one quick comment, just, you know, like the Ten Mile one we
did some relief into the walls of the structure and that looks nice, but because it's all still
concrete colored, it just doesn't pop as much as I thought it would and it would be nice
to have some coloring tinting on the structure itself. Don't know what we will put in
there, but just to give some -- some variation instead of just concrete color, just makes it
a little bland. So, color is nice. You know, river rock, that sort of thing is nice, but
doesn't have to be. You can do a lot with just concrete and tinting.
McClure: Certainly, yes. And the color on the Ten Mile is a very dark color, too, so you
don't see the -- the shadows don't help it at all, it's very -- it would help if it was lighter.
De Weerd: That's where you use your imagination. Imagination is cheap.
Hoaglun: Mine doesn't work so well sometimes.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
Meridian City Council Workshop
December 11, 2012
Page 36 of 41
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I certainly appreciate the theme of saying -- particularly the Meridian
interchange ought to be something that people really notice as they drive through and
say, oh, I recognize that bridge, it's different than many of the others. In -- there is
probably a further discussion that's -- that's needed with ITD, but in the discussion about
the Ten Mile I don't think they asked us for designs, I think they showed us three
choices and said pick one, which is how we ended up with the relief that's there. But in
anything that happens I kind of contrast this to the current appearance of the Wye over
in Boise. I know there has been many attempts to beautify that and they all die, so the
two things that I would bear in mind somehow are if we are going to have materials that
need to be maintained to make sure that there is a watering system that will help
maintain them and also make sure that there is a place where a truck and a trailer can
pull over and unload a mower or whatever that needs to be done, I think some of that
was thought of in the Ten Mile interchange, but that needs to be on the list. If we are
going to have things that need to be maintained, then, we need to make it safe for
somebody to maintain it as well and I think some of that is lacking in the Wye. I don't
see how anybody would access it to take care of it without blocking a lane. So, that's
just another thought. But I'm -- whatever we can do to make that a stand out
interchange and people know, you know, I'm in the middle of Meridian, this is -- this is
really cool, I like that..
~ De Weerd: Well, I think that the Arts Commission was involved in picking a lot of what
we see out at Ten Mile and would encourage their involvement in this as well to
compliment what we have done at Ten Mile and to bring the design elements as you
have shown in the split corridor in -- that it will connect to. I think we have brought up a
lot of really nice elements that -- certainly balancing budgets, considerations, and from
the Parks Department what cost of maintaining would be, that all has to be part of the
discussion, so --
Hood: And, Madam Mayor, if I can just -- one thing. We are trying to hit that sweet
spot. We want to be an identifying factor for our community, but not go over the top with
costs, whether they be initial cost, ongoing maintenance costs, water cost, so we are
trying to -- I mean that's our general overarching charge is something that's identifiable,
attractive, but, you know, short -- immediate cost for installation and long-term cost for
maintenance are relatively low. So, unless -- I think everyone should probably agree
with that, but if there is something that -- you know, again, so in the case like that you're
probably not looking at many turfs that need to be mowed on a frequent basis, because
your maintenance costs go up. But on the other hand and something I didn't think about
talking with Mike Barton just this week is, well, if you put in too many of those grasses or
shrubs, they catch the trash and you need to have somebody regularly out there
catching trash and so we have got to find that balance.
De Weerd: They wear orange vests, I believe.
Hood: But not frequently enough to where you can count on them to be there to hit it
Meridian City Council Workshop
December 11, 2012
Page 37 of 41
every time. So, that's the problem with -- with having volunteers to do that.
De Weerd: Well, I like the trees and the grasses and the rocks and the different colors
you were able to show in the rock designs. I think those were nice and I think we can
almost defer -- you have a great eye, Brian, and with the Arts Commission, those that
were involved with the Ten Mile would be good to involve in this as well.
Hood: If I can just on that point, too, Madam Mayor -- and I will be done. I promise.
That is the plan of attack. So, we need to have -- by April or May we need to have ITD
with our list of wants for this project. So, Brian, Tim, and Jay Gibbons are going to be
basically our team that would be working on concepts or plans -- we will involve the Arts
Commission. So far we haven't engaged them. But we have MDC at the table. We
have some of the other stakeholders there as part of our task force. So, we probably
will be coming back to you as a check in monthly or every six weeks or whatever as we
have things to discuss with you to say here is this month's progress, because we only
have four or five months to come up with the plan and so it's a little bit different than Ten
Mile. Our plan is to have a concept that we can give to ITD and, then, they pay for the
design of this thing, but a solid concept that we can pass off to them and say this is
what we would like to see, so --
De Weerd:. We know you can do it. ,
Hood: All right. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, Brian. Thank you, Caleb.
Hoaglun: And, Madam Mayor, as fashionable as Brian's tie was, I'm sure they will come
up with something great.
De Weerd: I know they will. I'm excited to see it. Okay. Anything further on that? No?
C. Police Department: Budget Amendment for Emergency
Replacement of a Police Department Motorcycle for the Not-to-
Exceed Amount of $18,991.00
De Weerd: Okay. Item 7-C is our police department. Oh, I'm sorry.
D. Human Resources: Policy 4.3.1 -Donation of Vacation Leave
to Another Employee for FMLA Qualifying Event
De Weerd: Okay. HR.
Nary: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. The item on in front of you
is the donation of leave policy that we passed earlier this year. I think it was in
September. There is a couple of mechanical things that we needed to add into the
policy to make it clear on how it was applied and there was a provision that somehow in
Meridian City Council Workshop
December 11, 2072
Page 38 of 41
the number of iterations of this policy got left out. We were trying to mirror the provision
that's in the fire contract and one of the requirements to be eligible for this donation of
family medical leave is that you have to be continually gone from work for more than 30
days or intermittently gone for at least 60 days. So, that's in the fire contract, it got left
off inadvertently in the one that we approved back in September, so we wanted to add
that in and, then, also originally we had thought conceptually to use some sort of
conversion of time and payroll said there really is no necessity to do that. There really --
any donated leave from one employee to the other would be applied from the donating
employee would be taken out of their vacation leave bank and would be put in the
receiving employee's sick leave bank. The intention is to provide time, not pay, so they
wouldn't be paid for any of the time, they are simply allowed the hours of time. So, this
is, basically, clarifying that and, then, correcting the 30 and 60 day requirements. So, if
that's acceptable to you, Council, we can put it on for approval next week with a
resolution to finalize it.
Hoaglun: Council, do you have any questions?
Rountree: No. I think that's the direction we need to make.
Hoaglun: So, Bill, are you saying time is not money?
Nary: Time is not money in this context.
E. Human Resources: Meridian City Policy 6.8 Conflict of Interest
Hoaglun: In this case. Okay. Got it. All right. So, we will move forward with that for
next week and, Bill, you have got another issue -- conflict of interest issue?
Nary: Yes. Members of the Council, we have been discussing internally about the
potential -- and most of it is more the appearance of conflict that exists. State law
governs direct conflicts very clearly and we administer -- we administer that if
necessary, we address that with departments when issues or questions arise. But we
also get the perceptions sometimes that there are conflicts of interest or the potential
that people may perceive that and so what we come up with is a policy that would make
it clear to address perceived conflicts of interest or any that are actual. So, what this
policy would do is two things, it would prohibit the city from employing family members --
and we have the legal terms. I know people always hate to have to read the legal terms
first degree of consanguinity and what does that mean. Well, basically, it's just your first
relation, so your child or your spouse. So, we wouldn't be allowed to employ the child --
the children or spouses of any of the members of the Mayor's Office, City Attorney's
Office, the Finance Department, Human Resources, or any of the directors of the
various city departments and that's, again, to make sure that the public doesn't think
that there is some favoritism or preferential treatment that's being provided to relatives
of employees. Now, we specifically exempted out the youth work life skills program,
because that is a learning program and the intention of that is to provide opportunities
for the youth in our community to work in various city departments and sometimes those
Meridian City Council Workshop
December 11, 2012
Page 39 of 41
are relatives of some of the various ones. We don't allow relatives to supervise relatives
and, in fact, in that program we have taken the additional step that we don't allow
relatives to work in the same department as their relatives. So, we don't even have
folks not only not overseeing youth interns, they don't work in the same department
either. To, again, avoid that perception of favoritism or the perception of there could be
a conflict. The other provision that's not really an exception, but it's a mirror of state
law, that you are allowed to contract with a relative of a city employee as long as you
follow the legal process. So, if there is an RFO or an RFP or a public bidding process
that you have to follow that, because, then, the intention the state law kicks in as to
making sure that the city is buying the best value for the best price. So, where it's
coming from doesn't matter, as long as it meets state criteria for bidding of a product.
So, that's the only other provision in there. Other than that, again, it's just a policy that's
there to make sure that people don't perceive there is any favoritism or any type of
preference that's given to people.
De Weerd: Any questions from Council?
Rountree: Move it forward.
De Weerd: Okay.
Nary: We will put on both of these next week with a resolution for approval of Council.
Item 8: Ordinances
A. Ordinance No. 12-1535: An Ordinance Amending Title 7,
Chapter 2, Section 8B Relating to the Fines for Parking
Citations for Parking on City Property Where Permit is
Required
De Weerd: Thank you so much. Okay. Under Item 8-A there is proposed -- or
Ordinance 12-1535. Madam Clerk, will you, please, read this by title only.
Holman: Thank you, Madam Mayor. City of Meridian Ordinance No. 12-1535, an
ordinance of the City of Meridian amending Title 7, Chapter 2, Section 8-B relating to
the fines for parking, citations for parking on city property where a parking permit is
required and providing an effective date.
De Weerd: Okay. You have heard this ordinance read by title only. Ralph, would you
like to hear it read in its entirety? Seeing none, Council?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve Ordinance No. 12-1535 with suspension of rules.
Meridian City Council Workshop
Decemher 17, 2012
Page 40 of 41
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 8-A. Madam Clerk, will you,
please, call roll.
Roll Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 9: Executive Session Per Idaho State Code 67-2345 (1)(c): To Conduct
Deliberations Concerning Labor Negotiations or to Acquire an
Interest in Real Property, Which is Not Owned by a Public Agency
De Weerd: Item 9 is an Executive Session. Do I have a motion to adjourn in to
Executive Session?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
C Bird: I move we go into Executive Session as per Idaho State Code 67-2345(1)(c).
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to adjourn into Executive Session. Madam
Clerk, will you, please, call roll.
Roll Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
(EXECUTIVE SESSION: 5:04 p.m. to 6:24 p.m.)
De Weerd: All right. I would entertain a motion to come out of Executive Session.
Rountree: I move that we come out of Executive Session and adjourn.
Bird: Second. Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion to come out of Executive Session. All those in favor say
aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
Meridian City Council Workshop
December 11, 2012
Page 41 of 41
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Item 10: Future Meeting Topics
10 is Future Meetin To ics. If we could hear we don't have any and,
De Weerd. Item g p
then, I would entertain a motion to adjourn.
Rountree: So moved.
Bird: Second.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: All those in favor? All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 6:24 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
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