HomeMy WebLinkAbout2012-10-23~~E IDIAN~---
CITY COUNCIL REGULAR
MEETING AGENDA
Tuesday, October 23, 2012 at 7:00 PM ':01 PM
1. Roll-Call Attendance
X David Zaremba O Brad Hoaglun
X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
2. Pledge of Allegiance
3. Community Invocation by Pastor Dave Duron with Meridian First
Baptist Church
4. Adoption of the Agenda Adopted
5. Proclamation for Pancreatic Cancer Awareness Month (Pg 2-3)
6. Consent Agenda Approved (Pg 3-4)
A. Records Billing Agreement with Ada County Sheriffs Office for
an Amount Not-to-Exceed $19,912.00
B. License Agreement with Nampa Meridian Irrigation District
(NMID) for a Sewer Main Crossing of Nine Mile Creek as Part of
the Sewer Line Replacement -Site 13 Project
C. Memorandum of Agreement for Rental of Rocky Mountain High
School Auditorium for Missoula Children's Theater
Performance
D. Professional Services Agreement with Missoula Children's
Theater for Residency Tour in Meridian March 18-23, 2013, for
an Amount Not-to-Exceed $2,500.00
7. Department Reports
A. Mayor's Office: Mayor's Youth Advisory Council (MYAC)
Update (Pg 4-5)
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda -Tuesday, October 23, 2012 Page 1 of 2
All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearing,
please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting.
8. Action Items
A. Public Hearing: MDA 12-007 Centrepointe by WH Moore
Company Located West Side of N. Eagle Road and North of E.
Ustick Road Request: Modify the Concept Plan and Certain
Provisions Contained in the Recorded Development
Agreement Approved for the Centrepointe Project Approved
with Conditions (Pg 5-27)
B. Request for a Fee Waiver from Bill Garcia with the Meridian
Optimist Club Approved (Pg 27-28)
9. Continued Department Reports
A. Parks & Recreation Department: Pilot Program -Off-Leash
Dog Hours at Julius M. Kleiner Memorial Park (Pg 28-36)
B. Community Development: Continued from October 16, 2012:
Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Approval: MDA 12-
005 Sgroi by Nunzio Sgroi Located at 4405 E. Ustick Road
Request for a Modification to the Existing Development
Agreement to Allow the Development of Single-Family
Residential Homes on the Site Approved (Pg 36-38)
10. Future Meeting Topics
Amended onto the Agenda:
11. Executive Session Per Idaho State Code 67-2345 (1)(a): To Consider
Hiring a Public Officer, Employee, Staff Member or Individual Agent,
Wherein the Respective Qualities of Individuals are to be Evaluated
in Order to Fill a Particular Vacancy or Need (Pg 39)
Into Executive Session at 8:53 PM
Out of Executive Session at 9:17 PM
Adjourned at 9:17 PM
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda -Tuesday, October 23, 2012 Page 2 of 2
All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearing,
please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting.
Meridian City Council October 23, 2012
A meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:01 p.m., Tuesday,
October 23, 2012, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, Charlie Rountree, David Zaremba, and
Keith Bird.
Members absent: Brad Hoaglun.
Others Present: Bill Nary, Jacy Jones, Pete Friedman, Bill Parsons, Warren Stewart,
John Overton, Mark Niemeyer, Steve Siddoway and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
X David Zaremba X Brad Hoaglun
X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
De Weerd: You thank for your patience and welcome to this evening -- this evening's
City Council regular agenda. For the record it is Tuesday, October 23rd. It's 7:01.
Madam Clerk, will you call roll.
Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance
De Weerd: Item No. 2 is our Pledge of Allegiance. If you will all rise and join us in the
pledge.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
Item 3: Community Invocation by Pastor Dave Duron with Meridian First
baptist Church
De Weerd: Thank you. I would say normally we would ask -- we would volunteer one
of the Boy Scouts to lead us in the pledge, but I didn't have enough time to come and
recruit, so I would like to welcome you to our City Council meeting. It's always nice to
see young faces in our crowd. So, thank you for joining us. Item No. 3 is our
community vocation. Tonight we will be led by Pastor Dave Duron with Meridian First
Baptist Church. If you will all join us in the community invocation or take this as an
opportunity for a moment of reflection. Welcome.
Duron: Let's pray. Father, we thank you for today. We thank you for the freedoms that
we are able to experience and express in this country and thank you, Lord, for our
public servants. We thank you for their partnership with us in our community as we
bring up our families together, as we live in community and, Father, we pray for
Meridian City Council
October 23, 2012
Page 2 of 40
continued protection for each of them and for our -- thank you for their service to us and
leadership. We pray that tonight's meeting would be productive and bring you glory in
Jesus' name, amen.
Item 4: Adoption of the Agenda
De Weerd: Thank you. Item No. 4 is adoption of the agenda.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: We need to amend into the agenda an Item 11 at the end, which will be an
Executive Session per Idaho State Code 67-2345(1)(a). And that's the only change.
move we adopt the agenda with that one change.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda as amended. All those
in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 5: Proclamation for Pancreatic Cancer Awareness Nlonth
De Weerd: Do we have someone here for the proclamation? Very good. If you will join
me up front. I'm going to go ahead and read this proclamation and, then, I will pass it
on. I'm sure many of us know someone who has been touched by pancreatic cancer. It
certainly is an aggressive type of cancer and it's never good news when we hear
someone has it. I am honored to stand here to read this proclamation Whereas in 2012
approximately 44,000 U.S. citizens will be diagnosed with pancreatic cancer and 37,000
will die from the disease. Approximately 190 of those in Idaho. And whereas
pancreatic cancer is the fourth leading cause of cancer death in the U.S. and has a five
year survival rate of just six percent and whereas the incident and death rate for
pancreatic cancer are increasing and pancreatic cancer is anticipated to move from the
fourth to the second leading cause of cancer death in the U.S. by 2020 and possibly as
early as 2015 and whereas the Pancreatic Cancer Action Network is a national
organization serving the pancreatic cancer community in Meridian and nationwide for an
approach that includes public policy, research funding, patient services and public
education related to developing -- to developing effective treatments and a cure for
pancreatic cancer and whereas the Pancreatic Cancer Action Network and its affiliates
in Idaho support those patients currently battling pancreatic cancer, as well as those
who have lost their lives to the disease and are committed to nothing less than a cure,
therefore, I, Mayor Tammy de Weerd of the City of Meridian, do hereby proclaim
November 2012 Pancreatic Cancer Awareness Month in the City of Meridian and I call
on all citizens to increase their awareness of pancreatic cancer and the continued need
Meridian City Council
October 23, 2012
Page 3 of 40
for funding and research in early detection, causes and effective treatment. I did sign
this this day and I will turn this over and ask if you have some comments to share with
us.
Tovey: I have a couple.
De Weerd: Thank you so much.
Tovey: As you mentioned about 44,000 people will be diagnosed with pancreatic
cancer this year and 94 percent of them -- or the survival rate for pancreatic cancer is
94 percent will die within five years. There is a bill currently before legislature called the
Recalcitrant Cancer Act calling on the National Cancer Institute to develop a plan for
dealing with pancreatic cancer and any cancer with a survival rate of less than 50
percent. That bill has already passed Congress and we are hoping to have it passed by
the senate when they get back into session and we would very much appreciate it if you
could let the senators know that it should be passed. Two years ago in May 2000 my
wife was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. Three months later in September she died
from it. About two -- two months after that I had an uncle who was diagnosed with it.
He died within three weeks. Like the Mayor mentioned, diagnosis of pancreatic cancer
is not -- not good. There are very few survivors and that rate has not changed in the
last 40 years and we need to do something to change it and change it soon. Thank
you.
Item 6: Consent Agenda
A. Records Filling Agreement with Ada County Sheriff's Office for
an Amount Not-to-Exceed $19,912.00
S. License Agreement with Nampa Meridian Irrigation District
(NMID) for a Sewer Main Crossing of Nine Mile Creek as Part of
the Sewer Line Replacement -Site 13 Project
C. Memorandum of Agreement for Rental of Rocky Mountain High
School Auditorium for Missoula Children's Theater
Performance
D. Professional Services Agreement with Missoula Children's
Theater for Residency Tour in Meridian March 1>3-23, 2013, for
an Amount Not-to-Exceed $2,500.00
De Weerd: Thank you. Item No. 6 is the Consent Agenda.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Meridian City Council
October 23, 2012
Page 4 of 40
Zaremba: I move that we approve the Consent Agenda and for the Mayor to sign and
the Clerk to attest.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda as printed.
Madam Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, absent.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 7: ®epartment Reports
A. Mayor's Office: IVlayor's Youth Advisory Council (ItnYAC)
Update
De Weerd: Item 7 under Department Reports, tonight we have a report from the
Mayor's Youth Advisory Council. Caleb, come on forward. Welcome.
Knapp: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Thank you for having me.
My name is Caleb Knapp. I am the -- I am the communications director for MYAC on
the exec council. And I'm also chair of Teen Activities Council. So, so far in MYAC this
far in this year we have had four general meetings and at these four general meetings
we had former NFL player -- we had a former NFL player come and speak and we also
had a Jane Cavener come just at our last meeting and explain to us parliamentary
procedure. So, those have been our guest speakers so far. We also have had
elections for a new historian. Our old one had dropped out. And we got elections for
new four school reps and one new at large representative. We also had elections for
subcommittees and now all our subcommittees have chairs and vice-chairs now and so
our subcommittees focus lately -- so, the last thing -- okay. Let me see. TAC -- the
TAC subcommittees, its -- its first function is going to be a Halloween function at
Farmstead, the corn maze, for all the kids who like spooky things and our government
affairs subcommittee group, they are working on a suicide hotline and our community
involvement group is -- is going to do a Rake Up Meridian project and they are going to
do a PSA for I Heart Meridian. MYAC also won the anti-tobacco grant titled STAND,
Support Teens Against Nicotine Dependency. This was a 1,000 dollar grant and so we
were really grateful to get it. Also another important exciting thing is that two MYAC
members were selected to attend the National Organization For Youth Safety, NOYS,
Teen Safe Driving Summit in Washington DC. Twelve to eight teams were selected
nationally and we are really honored that they would pick us and so we got two people
ready to go. We have done five community events so far. We have done a Community
Block Party. The MYAC members volunteered to help. We did a Celebrate My Drive
anti-texting rally where MYAC volunteers also volunteered to help. Also we did a -- by
Meridian City Council
October 23, 2012
Page 5 of 40
V3 Salon we did a Healthy You women's health fair where it was MYAC volunteers,
mostly girls -- actually, it was all girls who volunteered for that. And an anti-texting
event at a Rocky Mountain versus Mountain View game at Rocky Mountain High
School. We got over 1,000 teens to sign pledges, which really excited us and also at
that game we partnered with Meridian Police Department and the last thing is the -- the
last event is the -- we did the prescription drug town hall meeting at Wahooz to help
publicize it -- about drug awareness and we had MYAC volunteers volunteer, had a
great time. Over 100 people showed up and I also volunteered. So, it was a pretty
awesome time and so that's about it as far as MYAC so far.
De Weerd: Wow. I think you guys have been awesome. It sounds like -- and I would
point out if you didn't catch that, they have volunteered in more events so far than we
have had meetings and so I think we have a very energetic group. We get around 60
kids every meeting, so we have a big group this year and they have a lot of energy, a lot
of great ideas and I would ask Council if you have any questions.
Bird: Just thank you.
Rountree: You answered my questions about attendance, so it sounds like it's getting
bigger and better every year. Good job.
Zaremba: Thank you.
De Weerd: Yes. Thank you, Caleb.
Knapp: All right. Thank you.
De Weerd: That was painless, right?
Knapp: Yeah.
Rountree: Wait until next time.
De Weerd: Thank you for being here.
Knapp: Thank you.
Item 8: Action Items
A. Public Hearing: IVIDA 12-007 Centrepointe by 1NH IVloore
Company Located West Side of N. Eagle Road and North of E.
Ustic6c Road Request: Modify the Concept Plan and Certain
Provisions Contained in the Recorded Development
Agreement Approved for the Centrepointe Project
Meridian City Council
October 23, 2012
Page 6 of 40
De Weerd: Okay. We are at Item No 8 under Action Items. 8-A is a public hearing on
MDA 12-007. I will open this public hearing with staff comments.
Parsons: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. The item before you is
the Centerpointe DA modification application. This site is located north of East Ustick
Road on the west side of the North Eagle Road. Abutting this property is Jasmine
Acres to the north, which is RUT in Ada County. To the west boundary you have
Champion Park Subdivision zoned R-8. To the south and to the east you have some
Ada County -- or Boise county -- Boise city property and, then, to the south of this is
developed Centerpointe property that's zoned C-G and developed commercially. Here
is the aerial of the surrounding property. You can see this 18.7 acres is fairly
undeveloped. In 2003 this property was annexed as part of the Centerpointe property
and received that C-G zoning district. Over the past couple of years the applicant has
come before you and asked for several provisions or sent several addendums to the DA
that are in place as well. The aerial on the left-hand side is kind of a blowup -- or kind of
a bird's eye view and, then, a zoomed in to give you a perspective view of how close
this is to the surrounding residences. Here is an aerial that the applicant did provide.
They actually had a plane go over -- fly over and show you what it looks like on the
ground today. And, then, before you this evening the applicant is basically wanting to
amend the DA to allow for multi-family development in -- in this project. When this
originally came before you in 2005 as you can see in the approved concept plan on the
left it was envisioned for all commercial development. At the time that the Comp Plan
was in place, the guidelines under the Comp Plan at that time did not require a
residential component. Under today's mixed use regional guidelines we do encourage
at least ten percent of the development to have a residential component. Thus the
applicant is here requesting that from you. I'd also let you know that during those
hearings and those DA modifications the applicant was before you asking for -- wanted
to insure -- make sure that any buildings along the west and north boundary would be
compatible with the adjacent residential subdivisions. In the DA they -- they were
approved to have a ten foot setback along the west boundary and, then, along the north
boundary they agreed to do a 25 foot setback with a six foot fence and a berm. On the
left-hand side the applicant has provided a concept plan. Our recommendation before
you this evening is not to amend the concept plan, it's merely this exhibit before you, It's
just to show you a general location of where multi-family would occur in the
development. That is the intention. In looking through the -- the original DA on the site
staff felt it appropriate that this DA stay in place. There is just a lot of DA provisions in
the recorded DA that requires compliance with this concept plan. I would also mention
to Council that if any deviation is required or if the applicant does propose deviation
from this plan in the recorded development agreement it does state that they would
have to go through a conditional use process. I'd also mention if the DA amendment is
approved this evening that will also require conditional use permit approval to get that
use established. Right now the way the DA is structured multi-family development is
prohibited as a use in that development. So, here is what staff is proposing for you this
evening. One, the first section is the Section Four. We are asking that Council strike
multi-family development from the DA as requested by the applicant. Provision No. 5-E
Meridian City Council
October 23, 2012
Page 7 of 40
talks about that reduction to the buffer. The applicant is seeking a ten foot landscape
buffer along the northern boundary. As I mentioned to you earlier, it does require a
25 foot landscape buffer at this time. If I can go back to this exhibit here, this is the
general location of the Jasmine Lane. If the properties to the north of this were to
develop under the city's Comp Plan it would be medium density residential. So, a
subdivision. More than likely Jasmine Lane would have to be converted to a public
street. Under -- currently Jasmine Acres, which is the subdivision that is currently sited
through Ada County, there is a 50 foot wide common drive easement that abuts this
site. That 50 foot wide easement is consistent with the local street segment that ACRD
requires. So, intentionally if this -- if that was to develop as a subdivision and that were
to be a public road along this northern boundary, the UDC would only require a ten foot
landscape buffer, which the applicant is requesting before you this evening. The other
thing to make mention is under the specific standards for multi-family development there
is a minimum setback requirement for that zoning for multi-family development. There
is a minimum setback requirement for that zoning for multi-family developments. In the
C-G zone there are no setbacks for -- no building setbacks. Under the UDC, the multi-
family setback, the minimum would be ten feet along the perimeter only. That is still
consistent with what the applicant is requesting. The next item -- if I can go back to the
condition would be requirement for height. Currently the DA restricts commercial
buildings to that 35 foot height limit. The applicant is requesting that to move up to 40.
Currently the C-G zone required -- the maximum height limit in a C-G zone is 65 feet. I
think the applicant would like that 40 foot just to have a little bit more flexibility in some
future designs, but that's to be worked out later through a conditional use process. I'd
also make mention that if this property were zoned R-15 or something consistent with
our multi-family zoning, 40 feet would be the maximum height in the R-15 zone. So,
that is consistent to what we see out there. The third provision that the applicant is
asking to modify is -- I'm sorry, I already mentioned that. It's to strike the multi-family.
And, then, staff -- if I can go back to that aerial one more -- the original exhibit that I
showed you. If you notice here in the southwest corner here there is another asterisk
that is requiring an entryway monument sign. Because we are opening up the DA staff
felt it prudent to add a recommended condition or recommended provision that the
applicant construct an entryway monument sign located on the northwest -- or, yeah,
north -- northeast corner of the site. So, generally in this location is what the city
envisioned for the property. This is how we have it structured at this time. We tried to
build some flexibility in that DA provision. We have allowed -- on staff's
recommendation we are, basically, allowing -- the site would not need to be in place
until a certificate of occupancy for the first building constructed along Eagle Road. That
should give them abundant time in order to get those details worked out with the city
and allow the city to get their standards in place for the signage. I didn't make --
wanted to make mention to Council that staff did receive written testimony from the
applicant. They are in agreement with staff's recommended changes to the DA, with the
exception to the requirement for the new gateway signage. They do not want to
construct or maintain a sign on the site, but they are willing to grant an easement to the
city to allow for future construction on the site. And, then, staff also received additional
e-mail -- or written testimony from Ed Bollinger, who is the Jasmine Aces HOA president
and, then, also Wally Hedrick, they are in opposition of all the proposed DA provisions
Meridian City Council
October 23, 2012
Page 8 of 40
before you this evening. Other than that, staff does have one outstanding issue for
Council this evening. One thing that I did fail to mention, as you can see there isn't
really a clear concept plan in how the multi-family is to develop and so we just wanted to
put that out there. Do you feel comfortable moving forward on this application without
having a clear concept for how the multi-families integrate with the surrounding
properties. Other than the public testimony and the outstanding issues that I just
covered for you, there is nothing else that I need to convey to you and at this time I
would stand for any questions you have.
De Weerd: Thank you, Bill. Council, any questions at this time?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Bill, you talked about -- you talked about Jasmine Lane and that this
commercial property that also abuts the Champion Subdivision on the west side, what
are the provisions -- would the provisions that exist in the DA with respect to that
neighborhood be the same as far as landscaping requirements and building setbacks?
Parsons: Madam Mayor, Councilman Rountree, I'm not sure. if l'm following you.
Currently the way the DA is structured they are only required to provide a ten foot
landscape buffer. That's how it reads. The way I have it structured is that they would
comply with the way the ordinance is set up. But, yes, as far as the building setback
along that western boundary it would be ten feet. That's the way it's structured now.
Rountree: Now, is that a landscape area or is that a setback? Or is the landscape of
ten feet the setback?
Parsons: Councilman Rountree, the landscape buffer is the setback for that commercial
zone.
Rountree: And there is no setback for a commercial building?
Parsons: That is correct.
Rountree: Yet for a residential building in a neighborhood I think the setback back to
back is, what, 15 feet, 20 feet?
Bird: No.
Parsons: Madam Mayor, Councilman Rountree, depending on the zone it could vary
anywhere from 15 feet to 12 feet.
Rountree: Okay. Thank you, Bill.
Meridian City Council
October 23, 2012
Page 9 of 40
De Weerd: Any other questions? Okay. Would the applicant like to provide testimony?
Good evening.
Seal: Good evening, Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: If you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
Seal: Jonathan Seal, the W.H. Moore Company, 1940 Benito, Meridian, Idaho.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Seal: If I can first do -- what I would like to do is give you a little bit of history on this
project. Back in 2006, 2005 when we first started this project, the former director of
Planning and Zoning was advocating for a combination of both commercial and multi-
family and if you recall going back to that particular time, I think we will all remember
that the residential single family residential market was extremely dynamic. You were
building subdivisions left and right. On the other hand, the multi-family market was,
basically, anemic. Our concern at that time was that the city would require us to
allocate a certain portion of our land to multi-family where there was no use for it and we
at that time did not see where there would be any use for it. Now, as we fast forward to
2011, 2012, we all know the world has changed. Now all of a sudden the residential
single family residential market is not what it was back then. On the other hand, we
have seen that the multi-family market has become very dynamic. With that we have
seen a great deal of development. We have also seen I think a real transformation
towards quality multi-family and I think we have seen a paradigm shift in the thinking of
many people with apartments, they view them as long term versus what they were
years ago. They have given a greater flexibility. In fact, back in the summer there was
an article in the Statesman you may recall that talked about how people like to live in
apartments, because it gives them the flexibility, they don't have to do the maintenance
and when they want to move. Given that, over the last couple of years, we have
experienced a recent line of interest in multi-family and so the reason for our request
tonight to allow for multi-family is that we would like to at least be able to participate in it
if it becomes available. So, I think as Bill has mentioned to you, we have asked for
several things. One certainly is the multi-family be an allowed use within the
development agreement. We understand that a CU is still required, so I think the
analogy I used is we would like to be able to be allowed to come into the party, but we
understand we can't participate yet. We understand there will be a CU down the road
on that. Number two, we talked about the height variance and Bill had mentioned that.
Right now it's 35 feet. I think as we all know, apartments typically are not a monolithic
type of structure, they have changes in pitch and roof and there is probably other terms
as far as architectural. We feel by getting the additional five feet it will allow us to
design a quality product that will also be feasible. And, then, finally, the buffer. If we
can go to the aerial. Thank you, Bill. You're ahead of me. As he mentioned in here,
right along this Jasmine Lane we -- we had agreed to 25 feet up on there. We feel with
multi-family the reason that we are looking for the reduction is several things. First, we
believe that multi-family is a less intrusive use than would be commercial and your large
Meridian City Council
October 23, 2012
Page 10 of 40
monolithic type project. If we can go back to the concept plan for a moment. If you look
here, our concept plan, we show commercial. We have had conversations with -- for
example, Costco. We have actually a design in our office. Rosauer's, which we would
have done if it had not been for the median down Eagle Road. We have talked to movie
theaters. So, we feel that this is a less intrusive and amore -- better transition between
single family in the commercial. Also in there, as Bill mentioned, we comport with the
ordinance with the ten feet on the north side and, then, finally, again, if you look at the --
if you look at the concept plan, we envision that most likely any multi-family would be
over where you see that -- what happened there? With the family fun center and in that
general area. That road may move a little bit to the east and ACHD will allow us, but
envision that it will be in that area. If you look at that, for lack of better description, it's
really almost cone shaped. The additional buffer that we can gain or area will help us to
design that and make that a more feasible project. It doesn't sound like a lot, but with
the configuration of Centerpointe, which is -- which is right down here, which is set, and
trying to get it up there it's a very constraining site, but we also feel it would be a very
suitable site for multi-family. So, I think it gets us the greater flexibility. However, we
also have -- I know you have received and I have, too, the neighborhood meetings --
particularly with Jasmine. I met with them in a separate meeting. They have requested
it. There has been some opposition. So, in an effort to try to compromise what we
propose tonight -- and I hope that I don't butcher this. But from the property line we
would agree that the buildings would be set back at least 20 feet. The primary face of
the building. But we would allow the balconies or other outside living patio areas or
something to encroach within ten feet of the property line. I hope that makes sense.
So, it helps us, because we are finding in many cases with apartments that they like to
have balconies, they like to have larger balconies and outside, so it gives us a little bit
more flexibility in the ability to go ahead and develop this. I have talked both to Mr.
Bollinger and also Mr. Hedrick about that, expressed it, as far as I know that's
acceptable to them. So, anyways, we would propose that as a compromise. With
respect to the signage, I think Mr. Moore's comment to that is he did not feel that that
should be part of the development agreement in the approval. He's certainly willing to
work with the city, but he doesn't feel that it's really fair to make that a condition to
approval or denial of this project. So, I have e-mailed that. Finally, what I would like to
do here, in case this happens to come up -- in some of the letters that you have
received -- well, I'm referencing this letter from Winston Moore on October 19, 2006,
where he sent to Wally Hedrick. In this letter it talks about what Winston would agree
to. One of the things you will see in here is a 25 foot setback versus -- as opposed to a
20 foot. There has been some -- I guess I should back up. When Mr. Moore wrote this
letter, this concept plan that you're looking at is what we envision it could be and we are
not saying that it won't be. But at that -- at that point not in our wildest dreams had we
ever thought that I would be sitting here today asking you for multi-family. I mean we
just never thought that that would happen. But I'm here. So, based on that he wrote
that letter with the intent that, yes, if we do commercial we still stand behind this letter.
We are not deviating from this. But in the event that we do multi-family, yes, we are
asking for modification. Some have suggested that that's being dishonest on Winston
Moore's part. I think everyone realizes the integrity of that man and there was never an
attempt to deceive and I think given the circumstances that have occurred recently,
Meridian City Council
October 23, 2012
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which none of us could foresee, I think it's reasonable to ask for modification only for
single family -- or for multi-family. So, I'm just giving this to address it in case it does
come up and I know you have probably seen the e-mails. With that I would be glad to
stand for any questions you might have.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Jonathan, you said -- you didn't mention any street names or ways, but
assume you're taking about Jasmine and you talked about an additional ten feet?
Seal: Yeah. Jasmine Lane.
Rountree: So, if I can understand you correctly, then, you're talking about the language
that was in the proposed development agreement change, which would have a ten foot
landscape median and an additional ten feet behind that, but that would be grass or
whatever and that could be an encroached area with a patio or a deck or something of
that nature. Is that what you're talking about?
Sea: Mayor, Gouncilman Rountree, what I envision, again., I know we would be
essentially going through a CU, but I would envision that area as some type of
landscaping. What specifically that would be I don't know, but it would be some type of
landscaping. So, we are creating a true ten foot buffer and the additional feet would be
whether it would be balconies, outside patios, or something like that. But the actual
building itself would be back 20 feet.
Rountree: Twenty feet.
Seal: Yes, sir.
Rountree: Edge of right of way.
Seal: Yes.
Rountree: That's the only question I had.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any other questions?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Seal: Okay. Thank you very much.
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October 23, 2012
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De Weerd: I did have two people sign up on the public hearing sign-up sheet. If I call
your name and you would like to provide testimony, please, come forward at that time.
Lenny and Cindy Rowe are signed up against. Yes, sir.
Rowe: Madam Mayor, City Council --
De Weerd: If you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
Rowe: My name is Lenny Rowe. I own the home at 2663 East Mahoney, which is
approximately right there.
De Weerd: I think -- Madam Clerk, I don't know how to use that, but don't they have to
push something first then -- we will help you out here, so you can point it out.
Rowe: I'm electronically illiterate, so I need some help here.
De Weerd: And so am I.
Rowe: I own this home --
De Weerd: Thank you.
Rowe: -- right there. It's on the corner of Mahoney and Petty. Okay. Now, my only
concern about what they are doing is in between two homes across the street from me
there is a pathway that was constructed when the housing development -- when
Champion Park was built. Now, that walkway leads to nowhere. Well, it's fixing to lead
right in the middle of the proposed construction area. It's kind of hard to see on this
map, but it is approximately right there. Okay? Now, this leads into where they are
going to be building their apartments. Now, I don't know what the setback is here on
this side -- on the backside of Champion Park fence, but I would like to have this fence
here closed off, so that the proposed multi-family commercial would not have a back
door to Champion Park Subdivision.
De Weerd: Okay.
Rowe: That's -- that's my only concern. I have -- I mean when the people down here
purchased their homes down there we bought these homes to where we wouldn't have
all traffic from Eagle or Ustick or -- well, north and south, east and west. So, when we
purchased these homes back here we bought those homes with -- with the assumption
that there wouldn't be a lot of traffic back there. Okay? With this fence thing here open,
people in this area here would have a back door to Champion Park and I would like to
have that fence closed off. Now, there is a -- a walkway here and there is a walkway
that's up in this area here somewhere, up on -- I don't know the name of this street.
This is Leslie coming this way and as it goes down and around it turns into Mahoney
and that walkway is back here and this is the fence line here that -- that's the border.
Okay? There is a walkway that goes through here that goes to absolutely nowhere and,
Meridian City Council
October 23, 2012
Page 13 of 40
then, there is another one up here that goes -- that goes to nowhere also. Now, why
they were put there who knows, but I did check with the city planning over here and
asked them if it was part of the Meridian walkway -- you know, they have routes that
they go that's, you know, for kids or for people to walk and -- walk their dogs and view
the sites and do this and that -- it isn't part of it. So, if it was a part of it I wouldn't be
standing here, but it isn't, so that's why I would like to have it closed off. Just the fence.
De Weerd: Okay. And just a question where you drew the red line further down there is
a pathway connection there?
Lowe: Yeah. There is a pathway that goes -- there used to be -- they were all empty
lots and when they put townhomes in there they put another walkway in there. Now,
that walkway wasn't there until they put those -- until they put those townhouses,
condos -- I don't know what they call them. They are like a duplex.
De Weerd: Okay.
Lowe: I don't know what they call them, but, anyway, they were building them -- they
built two on each lot all the way down -- well, in between one of them there is a
walkway. Now, there is walkways through the -- through the neighborhood to make it
into Champion Park itself, but those are. the only two walkways. Now, I drove around
the other neighborhoods and there are no walkways that go from -- from inside the --
the -- that I could find that was inside the residential areas that had a pathway open to a
commercial area.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions?
Rountree: No. Good point. Thank you.
Rowe: How do I turn this thing off? That's all I have to say. Thank you very much,.
De Weerd: Okay. You're okay.
Lowe: Okay. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Elizabeth Cooper signed up against. Thank you for
coming tonight. If you will, please, state your name and address.
Cooper: Elizabeth Cooper. 2692 East Mahoney St.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Cooper: Madam Mayor, Council Members, I don't have any issues with the proposed
change in use. I think that we recognize that there is a need and a demand for multi-
family housing and I don't feel that it's Mr. Moore or Mr. Seal's intent to deceive, but they
-- Mr. Seal -- they failed to mention at the neighborhood meeting that they had planned
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October 23, 2012
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to increase the height allowed, so there is two points that I have opposition to this and
one of those is the change from the 35 foot to a 40 foot height allowance, just in part
because of the -- the west, which is where I reside, we have a ten foot setback. These
are all R-8, all single family. Typically with a general commercial you have a 25 foot
setback and with a 40 foot building, ten feet from my property line and my neighbors, it
makes the enjoyment of my property significantly -- potentially more difficult. So, I
would like to maintain that 35 foot agreed site and, unfortunately, I am not allowed to
change the ten foot setback along that western boundary, which I think was made in
error, but I can oppose the one that's being proposed on the north and say that we
should maintain the setbacks that was agreed upon in the development agreement for
multi-family housing, as well as commercial uses, because they are both considerably
more impactful to the neighbors than single family residential in part again because of
the height that's allowed. So, I do hope that they get the opportunity to appropriately
and properly develop their parcel. I hope that we have good neighbors. I'd like to be
one, but we should maintain the agreed upon setbacks and the agreed upon heights.
De Weerd: Thank you very much. Okay. Council, any questions?
Rountree: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Those are the only sign-ups. we have. Is there anyone
else who would like to provide testimony? Okay. I would ask Mr. Seal if he would like
to comment. Close this up.
Seal: Jonathan Seal again. The lady I had trouble hearing her, but she is correct, when
we did the neighborhood meeting we did not talk about a height variance. In fact, that
was raised by staff at the pre app and it made sense to me. So, you know, we certainly
weren't trying to deceive anyone. It's just -- in fact, it was something that was raised
afterwards that, frankly, I had not considered and so there -- I didn't know any other way
to try to do that. From my perspective, respectfully, I'm not sure that five foot is going to
be a huge thing. We also -- Bill, why don't you go ahead and show that -- that plan.
Now, to be forthright with the neighbors, both for Jasmine, as well as for the individuals I
met with Champion Park, we showed them this plan to just give you a little basis. This
is Champion Park here on what would be the west. This would be -- this would be
Jasmine Lane up here on the north. We have had conversations with a developer on it
and as I explained to them, there is nothing guaranteed on this particular project, but I
wanted to be forthright and let them know where I was in the process. I don't know
whether this will happen or not. I have learned over the last -- of course the last couple
of years, you know, the old saying it ain't over until it's over. And we have had more
than our share of disappointments. But I wanted to show them. I think from the
standpoint of the neighbors in Champion Park very candidly back -- can we get the
aerial back up real quick, Bill? If you look at the aerial over here, you can see Inland
Park Apartments, they approached us, they wanted to buy land from us, in fact, earlier
this year and they were looking at a four story project that they would have basically
backed right up to almost the fence. We told them there was no way that that was
going to be acceptable. So, they have actually moved over there. So, I think, you
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October 23, 2012
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know, very -- we are very sensitive to the neighbors in Champion. We all have homes.
We understand the impact that it could have on the surrounding area. So, I wanted to
-- so, if we could go back to the concept plan, Bill. So, I think -- you know, I really
hesitate to show any type of plan and try to tie into a concept, because I have always
struggled with this in the past -- we really don't know what's going to happen and, then,
we come back and say we need to change it and, then, we have to go through. But I
think the reality is, one, we would never suggest of even go through anything that would
abut right up to the fence or very close to where the ten feet that Councilman Rountree
talked about. Second of all, like anything, we are going to be -- we are going to be
going through a conditional use permit. So, anything that comes in here you're going to
have, as well as the surrounding community a second bite at the apple. So, I don't
know if I have really answered the questions. I can appreciate the lady's concern, but at
least I wanted to show those. We have spent a great deal of time just on this plan trying
to move things back and create as much of a buffer as we can, so --
De Weerd: Jonathan, I guess one more thing to address is that pathway.
Seal: Yes.
De Weerd: Had you talked with staff or considered that connection point?
Seal: You know, the beauty of that pathway is we are indifferent. When I met with the
neighbors in Champion they expressed a concern about it. We didn't put that in. I have
no idea where that pathway is going and that's what I told them. The fact that we are
going to -- we have a concept plan that at that time showed a family fun center up there,
about a 4,000 square foot family fun center, I have no clue where that pathway would
go. When we worked on EI Dorado we did a pathway and that goes to places. But,
honestly, I don't know where this one is going. And so as I told the neighbors there, we
will support if they want to eliminate it and we will support if they want to keep it open.
But I don't know where it's going, so personally -- and I think from their standpoint, too,
to close it off would be better. So, I know that probably doesn't answer your question,
but I'm as confused as anybody else.
De Weerd: You know, I appreciate that and I appreciate you showing this. You know,
guess I would not vote in this case, because there could not be a tie, but I would say I
had concern if we were looking at the ten foot against the existing subdivision with the
road, which adds an additional buffer to the north, that side certainly isn't as concerning
as if you were abutting the existing homes and so it does answer a lot of questions that I
had.
Seal: Sure. And I would go on record and I know Winston Moore would also, there is
no way -- you know, I don't mind a challenge and I have had a few here with the city, but
there is no way that we would come in here and propose putting apartments right up
against it. Again, I own a home like other people do and, you know, I can understand
the impact. It's an investment for them. And so I think we are sensitive to that. We
have been sensitive to that in every project I think we have ever done. And certainly on
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October 23, 2012
Page 16 of 40
this one and I can tell you that we would work with them on this to try to get this
distance. You're well over I think 120 feet on some of those buildings. You know, as
have explained to the neighbors, again, very respectfully, the ideal thing to go back here
for everyone would be a horse pasture. We would all love that. The next best thing
would probably be single family homes. Single family homes is not happening here.
So, it's either going to be multi-family or it could very well be, for example, a Costco or a
large store. We could take the road and move it right to the west and, you know, we
can move Centerpointe -- I'm not saying we are. So, it's just a question of what is the
least intrusive for the surrounding community. Personally, you know, this is my opinion,
I think it's multi-family if it's done nice and I think you know with Winston Moore he
would not do a poor quality project. In fact, this one interestingly I know I'm probably
getting a little bit off the reservationist, but they are looking at this being asolar -- putting
solar panels, the very flat ones, on the roof and 60 percent of their energy will be
created by the solar panels. They are looking at doing elevators. I mean they are
looking at a quality type of project here and we wouldn't allow anything other than that,
because it would be a detriment to the rest of the project. Now, that's just words, I
understand that, but, you know, I think you know what our MO has always been.
De Weerd: The words on the public record.
Seal: Yes, they are. Yes, they are. Come back to haunt me.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Question for Jonathan. Then you wouldn't be opposed -- and I don't know if
it's necessarily in the DA or just a condition on the application that you would fence the
property line on the west side and close the pathway on the property line and the
homeowners could do whatever they want to do on their side, whether they want to sell
or grow a garden or whatever.
Seal: Councilman Rountree, there is a vinyl fence along there already, but as far as --
yes, Ican tell you that if they want to close it off we will fence it off.
Rountree: So there won't be a penetration.
Seal: Yes. I mean that's the -- frankly, I would prefer that, too, so -- and I'm just not
sure why it was originally put in. We had -- we had no call on that. We weren't even
involved.
Rountree: And, secondly, though apparently you hadn't shown a concept plan before
and the one you show now is a bit on the rough side, but the intent of what you spoke is
in this concept plan. So, I would propose, if -- for consideration that we include this as a
tentative concept that addresses what you said about the west property line in terms of
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October 23, 2012
Page 17 of 40
keeping the apartments away from that and, in fact, this shows probably parking -- and
that's with the little --
De Weerd: It's covered parking.
Rountree: Covered parking.
Seal: Yes. Madam Mayor, Councilman --
Rountree: And the apartments would be consider further away from the property line,
which would make sense. Are you opposed to not holding your feet to the fire that your
boxes are going to be arranged this way? They might be skewed and they might be
clustered differently, but the intent is to protect that west property line from --
Seal: Madam Mayor, Councilman Rountree. No, I don't. You know, like again --
Rountree: Excuse me. But the reason I say that is --
Seal: Sure.
Rountree: -- and I believe everything you have said about Winston and I feel the same
way. But when it's sold that's when we get into all kinds of hot water. And so if the
record is not clear, then, this Council or our future Council can get into difficulty.
Seal: Sure. No. I'm comfortable with saying -- you know, I like the term not putting our
feet to the fire. I'm not suggesting we are looking for wiggle room, but I think if this can
be generally what we are looking for, again, we are not going to shove apartments up
there. What you're seeing along there is parking. Some of that would probably be
parking garages. Again, if this is a project, but I think any project will go through. So,
yes, I would be -- I would be comfortable with saying, okay, this is generally what we are
looking for. I think the intent is it's moving the things away from the property line. It's
giving them the privacy that they would like. It's not getting as much privacy if there was
nothing there or single family, but I think it achieves hopefully something, yes, from the
city standpoint that they can say, hey, this is kind of a facsimile of what we are looking
for, but won't come in and say, yeah, let's run a bunch of apartments right along the
fence. So, I'm okay with that. That was one of the reasons I brought this, because
anticipated this may come up.
Rountree: Thank you.
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor, I just want to make sure I understand. Basically, what you're
asking for is the opportunity to be able to do amulti-family, but you're not asking to
change to exclusive multi-family, you still might do something else there. Is that
correct?
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October 23, 2012
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Seal: Madam Mayor, Councilman Zaremba, yes, right now we would like to have the
opportunity to participate. I look at this as a two step process point. Step one is getting
the DA cleared up and, then, we can go to step two. If we can't do step one, we can't
do step two. So, all we are saying we may not do any multi-family, but we would like to
have the opportunity, if it is, to be able to say, okay, fine, we can forward next step and,
again, like you say, whether it's the neighbors or the city -- the CU is where you have
the opportunity to say, yea, nay, or modify. That's all we are asking for tonight, yes.
Zaremba: Great. Thank you. And I think, along with what Councilman Rountree said,
would -- understanding that it may not end up being amulti-family anyhow, I would still
like to see this concept plan be part of the record and part of the conditions that if it is a
multi-family, it's similar to that and our history as a Council, we understand the
difference between a concept plan and a plat. This is not final, but it is a hint of what
you're suggesting and as we said, it came with imprints that you're not going to be
building them right up to the property line or the minimum setback and that for me -- I
would be more concerned about the change from 35 feet to 40 feet, if you were going to
be that close to the existing homes -- for me making this concept plan a part of the deal,
should it be multi-family, helps me be more comfortable with the 40 feet, as opposed to
the 35. So -- now, my question is does that 40 feet apply to anything that you would
build there if it were not multi-family Qr does it only apply to the multi-family option?
Parsons: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, all the provisions before you this
evening, except for the one that strikes multi-family development, only is driven to
multi-family. So, everything else would remain intact for a commercial development if
the multi-family didn't happen in there.
De Weerd: But, Bill, in terms of the statement that it's 20 feet for the building and ten
feet for any balcony overhang and that is not written into this.
Parsons: That is correct.
Seal: Madam Mayor, no. That was an offer that I made yesterday and I wasn't sure if it
was going to be accepted, so if it wasn't -- and I talked to Bill about it and I propose that
I bring it up tonight and if it is acceptable to the neighbors to the north and to the
Council, then, we would proceed with it, so -- so that was my call and it was very -- it
was really, quite honestly, just a last minute thing.
De Weerd: Okay. Any comment on the pathway section? I know why it's there. We
have a commercial piece of property, people don't want to have to walk a mile to access
it in order and that is why the pathway is there. But if you have a pathway in the
townhomes that provides that access, it certainly is not too far from this one and makes
sense to replace it.
Friedman: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the Mayor is correct, obviously, you
know, one of the goals of the city is connectivity in all areas, but, then, it comes down to
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October 23, 2012
Page 19 of 40
case by case evaluations, that a pathway did, in fact, predate our pathway master plan,
so it was put in as a condition of Champion Park. The fact that there might be another
one down in the townhomes, you know, it's one of those things this is why we have
public testimony that's news to us, so we will definitely check it out. It's been a while
since I have been in there, but, you know, if that pathway is already fenced off and if we
get something that somewhat resembles the concept plan, you know, there are other
ways of getting in there. So, you know, it's really Council's pleasure. We are certainly --
you know, if it's the intent of the neighbors that really do not want to have that cross-
traffic, then --
De Weerd: Well, certainly, if the -- the multi-use it's not as attractive to have that
connecting point, especially if you have one further down.
Friedman: Right. Madam Mayor, also, you know, if, in fact, the use of that section of
the property changes, so now you have got a residential area, plus even if it connected
through you're going to be connecting through on a road that services the loading docks
and everything of the major stores that are in there anyway, so --
De Weerd: Yeah. Okay. Council, any further questions?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I was just going to comment on the pathway. It just -- we don't have it on any
of the aerials that we have, but just thinking a little bit farther out, if -- if that were a
pathway that made it easier to get back and forth to a school, that might have been a
reason for it, but there are no schools on either end of the pathway or the direction that
anybody would go.
Seal: Yeah.
Zaremba: As you said, there is an existing fence, all you would really be doing is
closing off the pathway and you got to put in 20 feet of fence or something like that
whatever width it is. I think that's reasonable. That actually doesn't undue the
requirement for the subdivision to have that there, they may want to decide at some
time to apply to give up that easement or whatever, but it would still exist if at some time
in the future there seemed to be a reason to connect it to something. It would still be
there, just have a fence across it. So, I see no problem with doing the fence. Next
subject would be the sign and I realize that's a new thing to you, but it actually is a new
thing that we are beginning to require all over the city and --
Seal: Lucky me, uh?
Zaremba: Yeah. You came in at just the time. But we have identified our entryway
corridors and are asking the developers to do that. In some cases if there are a couple
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October 23, 2012
Page 20 of 40
of developments next to each other we may ask them to share the cost with the next
door development, but I know any dollar is a cost, but we are not talking about real
expensive signs. What is our estimate of --
Seal: Well, Councilman Zaremba, from what I saw it's not going to be cheap.
Friedman: Again, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Zaremba,
we are just in the process of refining the specs. We have an RFP out and our sort of
initial cost as we discussed on a previous occasion was somewhere in the ten to 12
thousand dollar range, probably. I have no other bases to say, you know, anything
different. But that's sort of the --
Zaremba: I understands as a shot in the dark, but it's not a 150,000 dollar sign with --
with an electronic reader board and all that sort of stuff on it.
Seal: Well, Madam Mayor, Councilman Zaremba, I, unfortunately or fortunately, my
name is not on the side of the building, so I really honestly can't make that call. What I
would suggest -- and I think the most effective way is to pull this out Certainly welcome
to talk to Winston Moore about it and see his comfort level. It sounds like there is some
unknowns right now, but I -- very honestly I can't make a call to say, yeah, let's do it. I'm
smart enough. not to at least do that. And, again, I think from his perspective -- and
rightly so -- each kind of feels like all of a sudden just as, you know, you're tying into
something that has nothing to do with what we are requesting and I think he feels like
he's a little bit of being held as a hostage on this. You know, Winston has always been
very generous, so I don't think there is any question there, but I would stress that maybe
as we go through it I would use my efforts and maybe we could discuss -- and I know
the Mayor has talked to Winston on various occasions and maybe broached that subject
and see what -- you know, what his reaction or what he would be willing to do, so --
De Weerd: Well, I would say, Jonathan, that it's not the first application that this
provision has shown up on.
Seal: Yeah.
De Weerd: And --
Seal: My first.
De Weerd: Nor is it the first condition that it is part of an agreement, too.
Seal: Sure.
De Weerd: So, I will put it that way. But we are not asking him to do anything else that
we haven't asked others to do.
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October 23, 2012
Page 21 of 40
Seal: And, Mayor, as I say, I can appreciate that. In this case I'm the messenger and --
and so I really can't make that call. So, that's kind of an awkward situation for me, rightly
or wrongly, and, yeah, I suspect there is. I know that Dave Turnbull has done a project
and he did one, I believe, over on Ten Mile as I understand it --
De Weerd: And Mr. Dean is also.
Seal: Yes. So, yeah, there may be -- there may be many out there and stuff and I think
it's maybe an opportunity for -- whether it's you or someone in the city to maybe more
enlighten them about this, explain the situation and maybe that would be the way to
handle it, but, you know, honestly, I can't make that call.
De Weerd: Well, that's the great part about being the messenger, Jonathan, you get to
tell him.
Seal: And, then, I tone it down. so --
De Weerd: And, staff, just by the way, I pulled up Google Earth and I found the
pathway. So good job. Isn't technology just amazing?
Friedman: When it works it's wonderful.
De Weerd: That's true. Any other questions from Council?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I'll talk as long as my voice will hold out.
De Weerd: Then put your microphone closer to --
Bird: Regarding that sign, well, on Ten Mile I don't think we required the developer to
put that in, just to agree to be -- to help with the price of it and actually develop and go
along and I think with this deal he's taking Eagle Intersection that was done by Mr.
Moore and Mr. Turnbull. The other two corners have not participated in any of it and
they come in about the same time. So, I don't know why we can stick with one -- stick
this on the backs of one developer myself. And you say 15,000, that's an awful cheap
entryway, because we paid 34 for the one we got out here by Kentucky Fried Chicken.
De Weerd: I think that we did ask Mr. Turnbull to put it in, but he is only going to do 50
percent of the cost and so --
Bird: That's what I mean. That wasn't part of his condition.
De Weerd: It was part of the condition, though. Any further clarification on that?
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October 23, 2012
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Friedman: Yeah. Madam Mayor, Members of a Council, Council Members, that's
correct. On the sign on Mr. Turnbull's property part of it was a function the geometrics
of the roadway configurations in there and the topography, whereas if we were to place
it all on Mr. Turnbull's property it literally would not have been seen from the road,
because if any part of it was seen -- that would have been it would have been the top of
the sign. So, because we don't have an application from Mr. Sgroi at this time and if
you will recall Mr. Turnbull had requested that everybody on both sides of the road
participate, even if the sign was not going to be built on the other side of the road, that
the condition I think is that he and Mr. Sgroi share the responsibility of that. On the
Dean situation, again, I think it was the sense of the Council, based on Mr. Dean's input,
that, you know, it really was on the wrong side of the road, but as in this case it is a
case of opportunity -- and no pun intended -- but a vehicle for attaching the condition.
And so Mr. Dean has volunteered and I think Council approved a not to exceed amount
and, then, working either with the -- you know, either having the city work with the
church, maybe getting them to contribute to pay for part of it, or reimburse the city, we
haven't gone there yet. But in the case of Dean, we did have a not to exceed amount.
In this case the applicant is the owner of the entire parcel and as the Mayor indicated,
this is the time we have opened up the development agreement and so, again, it's
Council's --
De Weerd: Do we want to put this up as far as the sign that we are referencing?
Madam Clerk. And, Council, if -- if you do desire we could continue this, I can talk with
Mr. Moore or staff can talk with Mr. Moore and -- to help out the messenger.
Seal: Can you as far as a signage goes?
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Seal: Okay.
Friedman: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, we would be happy to speak with
Mr. Moore. I think it from an effectiveness standpoint and speaking of messengers, it
may be most effective if the Mayor, who probably has a different type of relationship
with Mr. Moore, than we might, speaks with him and see where we can go there. The
Mayor or someone from the Council.
De Weerd: Mr. Nary, can that happen, since it would still be an active application in
front of Council?
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I mean it's certainly appropriate if you
want to talk to Mr. Moore, just to explain it. Not as a -- not as -- anything beyond that. I
think Mr. Seal I think is really just asking -- saying that Mr. Moore and his company
haven't been part of these prior discussions and since Mr. Moore wasn't able to be here
tonight, just explained this is kind of what the process is, but if he wants us to fix some
things that probably the public hearing process is more appropriate for that. But, really,
Meridian City Council
October 23, 2012
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just to understand what other ones we have done, what the reason the city has come to
that, how we have identified entryway corridors, what the purpose has been -- I know
Mr. Seal and Mr. Moore I understand that when we are talking about amending the
development agreement, it's a contractual arrangement, so if that's not acceptable,
then, it's not acceptable and that's fine, but it's all certainly eligible to be discussed as
part of the modification. Since modification -- you know, if it can't be reached it can't be
reached. and the development agreement doesn't to get modified.
Seal: Well, I guess the dilemma that I'm honestly faced with is we don't know what we
are really agreeing to. You know, like anything else, we can be very specific, okay, we
are -- we are not going to agree to this, but we are going to agree to this and, again,
mean I guess what I would like to suggest is -- however, maybe I simplify things. We
remove this as far as this process goes, sit down with Winston Moore -- I mean I think
everyone here knows that, you know, he's a reasonable man, but, again, I think the
comment is what are we talking about? Are we talking about 5,000, 10,000, 20,000?
We really don't know. And I think that's the other difficult thing. So, yes, I understand
that it's a contractual agreement and, yes, I understood that things could be modified
beyond and above what we have requested, but, you know, we are asking here to
agree to something that we really don't know what the parameters are and I think it's
just fair -- just like let's sit down and work through it. I don't see it as a major event, but
think it's something that can be addressed, but I think it can be addressed outside of
necessarily of the public hearing arena and maybe a one on one. I mean, you know,
Winston is very informal in that case and if he feels reasonable and you price it, maybe
he says, okay, fine, I will provide this and I will do this and I will do this and the city does
that and you work it out. I just -- I guess right now I'm not in a position to make a call
and I don't want to hold up this process of the variances as far as modifying the DA
solely for a sign. So, respectfully, I would say take this out, let's address it in some other
type of manner, and I think, you know, it could be addressed equitably.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: We continue to get wrapped around the axle on this particular item. We are
not clear on it. Our applicants get confused by it. I'm going to suggest and ask this of
Jonathan. Would you be willing to have language in the DH that indicated that you
would be willing to provide to the site for an entryway sign at this point?
Seal: Yes. Yes.
Rountree: And enter into negotiations for the sign itself.
Seal: Yeah. Mayor and Councilman Rountree, in my e-mail basically we said, yes, we
would provide some location, easement, plan, whatever it is, to be able to do
something. That's the other thing, we are not even sure where -- where it's going to go.
So, there is a lot of unknowns. But we can put it in the development agreement that we
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October 23, 2012
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-- we would agree to provide a location and -- however that works out. So, that I'm
comfortable saying.
Rountree: And enter into the future negotiations.
Seal: Well -- and work towards or something like that. Some kind of wiggle room. I just
-- I mean I think you can appreciate I am -- yeah, I can't on a financial -- on something
like that. Some of the stuff, like the fence and stuff, yes, I can do that. I can justify that.
De Weerd: And, Jonathan, I understand the position you're in, but what I don't want to
do is to start having inconsistencies about what we expect and -- because of a
relationship of trust. And I want you to know I think it's -- that Winston has time and time
again shown he is someone that we can trust, but the next person that stands in front of
us and says because you didn't put it in their agreement we shouldn't have it in ours and
we don't have that same relationship and trust. That's difficult. And that is the caution
of -- of this kind of request and so, you know, that's why I feel comfortable if we want to
make sure that everyone is aware of what's being asked and we delay this for -- for that
conversation, that's one thing, but to say, you know, let's not put it in when we have
required it for everyone else, then, we are not playing by the same rules for everyone
and that's what -- Council can do whatever they want. I can only throw out the caution.
Seal: Well, Madam Mayor -- and, again, respectfully, the part that I am also struggling
with, if we had got in there and said its going to be X dollars and it's going to be this and
we are fairly specific in it, then, I think it would be easier, but what you're asking
someone to do is, basically, agree to a blank check and that's -- that's where I think I'm
struggling and I think from Winston Moore's standpoint that's not really fair. I don't
disagree with the fact that you -- everybody has to play by the same rules, but if that's
the case, then, provide to them what are the specifics. For example, that sign that is --
De Weerd: I would agree with you, Jonathan. And I know that that has been our
struggle on the othertwo --
Seal: Yes.
De Weerd: -- is what are you asking and what does it cost.
Seal: Exactly.
De Weerd: I get it. And, hopefully, before the next condition on the next application we
will have that information. Won't we, Pete?
Friedman: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, you will not see another condition
like this on another staff report until we have the specs and the cost. Thank you.
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October 23, 2012
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Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council? Pete, I thought with the Dean's
property we -- for that very reason that Mr. Seal has raised, is the reason the language
said not to exceed 10,000 dollars. Or was it not to exceed __
Friedman: Five thousand.
Nary: -- 5,000 dollars. Because he said the maximum cost of the sign we estimated at
the time was 10,000 dollars, Mr. Dean said I could pay for half -- I will pay for half of it,
because it should be -- I shouldn't have to pay for all of that and the Council agreed to a
not to exceed number. So, the cost of the sign is, then, not an issue if the maximum
amount of exposure is capped in the language. So, that's an alternative you can
consider.
De Weerd: And I think that's what you did with Turnbull's as well. It was 50 percent.
Nary: Right.
Friedman: Between Mr. Sgroi and Mr. Turnbull, that's correct.
De Weerd: Right.
Seal: And like I say, in this particular case there is -- and I know that's one thing
Winston has said to me probably a hundred times, you know, I don't mind paying for
something, but I don't want to write a blank check and stuff. So, yeah, I think like Pete
has said, if there is specifics in it, then, someone has the opportunity to address it and
say I like it, I don't like it, or I want to modify it, but we are talking in the abstract right
now, so --
De Weerd: And Iknow -- when you came in with Centerpointe he was more interested
in going kind of entryway, so I have no doubt. It's just what needs to be put in the
documents.
Seal: Yes. Hopefully, that clears it up. Never thought we would be talking about a
sign.
De Weerd: Clear as mud. Okay. Anything further, Council?
Bird: None.
Rountree: I have nothing.
De Weerd: Staff?
Friedman: No, ma'am.
De Weerd: Any final remarks?
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October 23, 2012
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Seal: No.
De Weerd: Okay.
Seal: So thank you very much.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Council, what's your direction?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we close the public hearing on Item 8-A, Centerpointe, MDA 12-
007.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion in a second to close a public hearing on this item. All those
in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we approve Item 8-A with all the staff and applicant testimony.
That the deal reflect that the setback on the north be 20 feet, with a minimum of 10 feet
landscaped by our definition. That the item presented this evening as a conceptual plan
be included in the DA as a reflection of the stated intent of that applicant to protect the
west boundary by not having apartments adjacent to the property line. Strike the new
provision as proposed and state that the applicant will provide the site for an entryway
sign and enter in discussions with the city on the sign and the cost of the sign. Anything
else?
Zaremba: Pathway fence.
Rountree: Oh. Yes. And the pathway fence, as brought up this evening, be fenced
with any future development, unless otherwise the desire of the neighborhood is that it
be opened up, which apparently it is closed at this point.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Seeing none,
Madam Clerk.
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October 23, 2012
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Roll Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, absent.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
B. Request for a Fee Waiver from dill Garcia with the Meridian
Optimist Club
De Weerd: Okay. Item 8-B is a request for a fee waiver and, Council, in front of you
you have a letter from Bill Garcia with the Meridian Optimist Club. Any questions for the
request -- pertaining to the request?
Rountree: Madam Mayor, no, I have no questions.
De Weerd: Okay.
Rountree: But Bill is here and I bet he would like to talk to us.
De Weerd: Bill, do you have anything in addition to what you have in your letter that
you would like to clarify?
Garcia: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I believe the letter pretty much says it
all --
De Weerd: If you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
Garcia: Oh. Bill Garcia. 2729 North Eureka, Meridian. I'm sorry.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Garcia: I believe that the letter states everything that we were requesting. We do
struggle with raising funds and try to move forward to serve more kids in our community
and we felt that we could use these fees more conducively to our development if -- if
you could see your way to waive them.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you, Bill.
Garcia: Thank you.
Rountree: Thanks, Bill.
Meridian City Council
October 23, 2012
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De Weerd: So, Council, what's your pleasure on this one?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I would move that we approve the request of Item 8-B from the Optimists for
waiver of fees as indicated in their letter.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: Thank you. I have a motion and a second. Madam Clerk.
Roll Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, absent.
De Weerd: All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Rountree: And we do appreciate all you do.
De Weerd: We appreciate you waiting through this -- this meeting.
Rountree: Yes.
Item 9: Continued Department Reports
A. Parks & Recreation Department: Pilot Program - ®ff-Leash Dog
Hours at Julius M. Kleiner Memorial Park
De Weerd: Next time we will put it at the very end. Okay. Item No. 9-A is our Parks
Department. I will turn this over to Mr. Siddoway.
Siddoway: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I am here tonight to present to you
a proposed pilot program for some off leash hours in Kleiner Park during the winter
months only. This is something that the Parks and Recreation Commission has been
considering and weighing for some time. I would like to implement it this winter, so I am
here to discuss what the Commission has come up with and that we could support. The
-- it is first and foremost a pilot program, so this is something we are willing to try for one
season and see how it goes and if it goes well we could make it permanent and possibly
consider other areas. But the allowance to do this is already in the code, so we don't
need an ordinance modification, all we need is an administrative policy, but would like to
bring it to you for discussion and your blessing. The area that we are talking about is on
the map on the back of what you have. I will put it up. We are looking at two
designated areas. One on the north pond, one on the south pond. The larger area on
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October 23, 2012
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the north pond would be along its eastern and northern boundary and, then, a smaller
area on the south pond, so we get some -- some coverage at both of the ponds on
areas that we know that people with dogs already like to congregate. There was a
discussion with the Commission at one point of maybe trying to do the entire park as an
off leash park, with exceptions for certain distances from the Senior Center and
playgrounds. We decided that it's much easier to start -- these are very large areas
anyway, so we could start here and it's easier to expand if desired in the future than to
shrink it once we give that a try. So, these would be the proposed designated areas.
The dates would be from November 1st to March 30th and the times would be from
dawn to 10:00 a.m. and from 4:00 p.m. to dusk in the evening. Those match the times
that Boise's off leash dog program uses at the vast majority of their parks and we did
have a representative from Boise come to the -- the parks amenities and signage
committees to talk about their successes, challenges, lessons learned, so that we could
evolve from that. Part of what we got from them was the list of rules that you see.
There are five. We actually started with a much longer list and so did they with their
pilot program and they said when they had so many rules they became so many that
they were lost in the noise, they said they found more success in boiling it down to the
most important things, which are these: That the dog owner is responsible for the
action and behavior of their dogs. That all dogs must be wearing a current dog license,
that all dogs must be on leash when outside the designated off leash areas. No
aggressive dogs allowed in the park and the dog owners must clean up after their dog.
So, we would propose that we try this pilot program for this winter season in Kleiner
Park and I would stand for any questions.
De Weerd: Thank you,
Siddoway: Any questions?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I think it's a great idea. I think it's wonderful. A couple of questions. Okay. I
appreciate your saying that in the Boise parks where they have this program they use
the hours that you have said. I'm trying to remember during the winter dawn might be at
9:30. I just -- so we get a half an hour in the morning and sometimes dusk is, what,
5:00 o'clock or something like that. Or is it ever that --
Siddoway: I think that's -- it is certainly some shortened windows right when you get to
the shortest hours in December. I don't know exactly what the latest dawn and the
earliest dusk is, but, you know, 8:00 o'clock to -- 8:00 o'clock to 8:30 maybe at the
earliest and in the evenings probably in that 5:30 range. Anybody have any --
Nary: Madam Mayor?
Siddoway: Does that sound right?
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October 23, 2012
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Rountree: 5:30 to 6:00.
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, just -- I guess from one perspective on
the enforcement end, what we would use from a criminal standpoint if we were going to
cite somebody for violating this requirement is you would use what the National
Weather Service determines is sunrise and sunset for the day. So, even though it may
be cloudy, they still determine sunrise and based on the sun, not the clouds. So, it
shouldn't be a problem.
Siddoway: And it is by ordinance 30 minutes before sunrise and 30 minutes after
sunset.
Nary: Yes.
Siddoway: Is dawn to dusk.
Zaremba: Okay. I just want to make sure there is enough time to satisfy people.
Siddoway: Yeah.
Zaremba: I have no problem with it -- with the November 1 to March 30, although I think
one of the first things we would look at might be to add a month or so on each end. Not
necessarily for the pilot program as you pointed out, it's easier to start and add
something than it is to take it away later. The only other observation I would make is on
the larger of the two off leash areas, just thinking of how a lot of people get to the
current dog park that we have, they come in their car with a dog and if we don't extend
the area all the way to the roadway, they have a situation where they get out of their car
with the dog on the leash, walk 15 feet maybe and, then, take the leash off and, then,
when they are going back to the car they have to put the leash back on for 15 or 20 feet.
I just wonder whether it might be simpler to extend the area to the roadway.
Siddoway: We certainly could if that's the preference. There is a pathway along that
area that we were following as our line, but it also just kind of says, you know, stay out
of the road and -- but I don't see a big conflict either way.
Zaremba: And I'm not strong one way or the other. I'm just thinking the way it gets
used, they may not leash for that 15, 20 feet and what would we do about it.
Siddoway: Parking along the loop road.
Zaremba: Yeah.
Siddoway: So, we could expand that to the road.
Meridian City Council
October 23, 2012
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De Weerd: I doubt if our police officers will stand there and wait until an unleashed dog
crosses the barrier, but I'm just supposing on that.
Siddoway: If they are running over in the playground we will know they are out of
bounds.
De Weerd: Yeah.
Siddoway: Yeah. We would like to talk with the police department about possibly
having some of the -- either animal control or some of the bicycle officers or a
combination of both there in heavier visibility, especially during the first couple of weeks,
as we roll this out, so we can try and educate people. For our part, since the pilot
program will not be investing in, you know, large permanent signs, but we will be
posting signs at each of the areas and at every -- at all of the dog stations where the
mutt mitt stations are within the parks, so that the maps are up, the rules are up, and we
would also be advertising it by Facebook and press releases and other things if it's
approved.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further questions?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Rountree: Probably comments, more than questions. We have not had the park for yet
one complete maintenance season.
Siddoway: Correct.
Rountree: And I'm not sure how you're going to address or quantify what the cost of
this activity is going to be without any kind of a history. There is going to be a cost and
there is going to a cost to the park both in personnel and other maintenance activities
that are going to have to occur. Just something you're going to have to think about as
an administrator, because I'm not inclined to increase your budget because of this.
Siddoway: Uh-huh.
Rountree: You're already talking about having extra patrol and maybe police officers
out there. Again, an additional cost. You label it a pilot program. If you're going to do
that, then, I think part of the policy is it's to be administered by the parks and recreation
director. So, next year when you stop doing this you make the decision. I don't see it
going away. Once you -- once you open up the door to the tent it's not going to go
away. We have already experienced that and the issues that have been created. So,
again, that's an administrative issue and a cost to the city that's going to be incurred and
I'd like to know what it is. With respect to your rules, all dogs must be on a leash. Does
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October 23, 2012
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that mean the leash needs to be attached to a person? Is that what that definition is? I
have seen dogs in our community and other communities walking down the street with a
leash, but nobody attached to it, other than the dog.
Bird: Right.
Rountree: So, I think the language is the dog needs to be in control -- needs to be
controlled by the owner.
Siddoway: Uh-huh.
Rountree: My last comment is I don't know how in the world you're going to enforce
this. There is no fences out there and a dog goes off leash and decides to chase a
rabbit or chase a goose or chase a duck or just take off, there is no way it's going to be
controlled. So, the idea that you have these artificial boundaries that, you know, this is
the off leash area -- if you're going to control it you're going to have to have people there
controlling it. Otherwise, what's the point? And I say that about all regulations that we
create, that if they are impossible to enforce who are we fooling?
Siddoway: Yeah. And that's where we were, Madam Mayor, and Councilman
Rountree, as we were talking about, you know, should we even try to find an area or
should we just say in certain areas. The city of Boise's experience is mostly -- is with
unfenced areas for the most part. They do have some exceptions that are. But for the
most part they are designated areas and Idon't -- I think the intent is to say this is the
area and the line -- you know, I don't think if you're 20 feet over the line that anyone is
going to dump on anybody. There is meant to be enough flexibility with this that it's --
we are just saying this to east and northern area and the southwest corner of the pond
are the areas for the dogs. If you're over by the Senior Center or you're in the band
shell area or you're on the promenade with an off leash dog, then, you're truly out of
bounds and this gives us some ability to direct them to where it is. Regarding the staff,
we would -- we do have staff, they are in the park during the -- the daylight hours -- in
the morning until 3:30 and we would use them, but we would not have someone there in
the evenings, you're correct about that, and I do not anticipate adding staff or creating
overtime for that. So, there is some self-policing involved with this. And as for the
officer support that we would request, again, I would anticipate only requesting
something of the officers that are on duty and not an additional budget requirement
there as well.
De Weerd: And I guess it kind of is self-policing, just like the no smoking policy in the
parks. And I believe that as has been discussed at the parks department level, unless
you give it a test to see how it works you don't know how it will work or what the
potential problems are. Fortunately, we had a -- a community to the east that spent
some time in trying to figure out what works, what doesn't work, that we can benefit
from. But, you're right, we will have to try it ourselves, if that's what this Council wants
to do, and -- and make some of those determinations to our own experience and to our
own specifics in this park. Any other questions from the Council?
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October 23, 2012
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Siddoway: I don't know if I need a formal motion, but I -- is that appropriate, Mr. Nary, to
get a motion to --
Nary: Yes.
Siddoway: -- to move forward with this?
Nary: Yeah. I think if -- Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I mean if your desire,
Mr. Siddoway, is to be comfortable that the Council is on board with that, that's -- a
voice vote is fine. You don't have to have a roll call.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I would express the consensus that we are in favor of the pilot program for
off leash in Kleiner Park.
Rountree: I think that's a little broad. Madam Mayor, I would be in consensus if the
policy would state who is responsible for it. To me it's a management issue, it's not a
City Council issue.
De Weerd: And, I'm sorry, Mr. Rountree, I agree with you, as does Mr. Siddoway,
because we are -- this is a pilot. I do know that Steve wanted to bring this in front of
you, so you are informed, you do know what's going on in case you do have citizen's
that ask you what on earth is going on and that you have an opportunity to express any
concerns or angst over it, so --
Rountree: Which I have done.
De Weerd: Okay.
Bird: And Ihave -- Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I can go along with it, but I'm -- I have a lot of concerns on this and I -- I think we
are getting into some liability problems out there, because when you're in a fenced-in
area it's different than when they are just running lose and, you know, a bicycle could
ride by and some dog decides he wanted to take after that kid or something, there is
liable.
De Weerd: That happens right now and it's the dog's owner that is liable.
Bird: Well, yeah, but in our park on leash? No.
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October 23, 2012
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De Weerd: It is. Just like if a dog does on a road or a sidewalk.
Bird: Okay.
De Weerd: It is the dog owner's liability and responsibility and, unfortunately, I can tell
you that from experience, because my mom found that all out, so -- well, then, we leave
it up to the department directors --
Siddoway: Madam Mayor, we do have this written up as an administrative policy, but
did come here for the very purpose of -- of seeing what the -- the concerns -- you know,
if there was an exciting, yeah, this is exactly what we want to do or if it's -- you know, I'm
not sure. And that's why I'm here and if there is strong reservations, you know, we
could -- I don't want to shoot my own proposal in the foot that I'm bringing, but, you
know, we could postpone this and let you hear from the city of Boise and some of their
lessons learned, what the commission subcommittee did, but they have tried it as areas
that are unfenced and it's not perfect, I don't expect this to be -- that this would be a
perfect implementation, but at least from our perspective we were willing to try it and
hoping it goes well. Boise's experience in their surveys that they have done was about
an 80 percent of support raised after the first year and a half of their program. Just
people in the areas liking it. So, based on their experience anal knowing 80 percent
approval, we thought that we might give it a try.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I know that your department and you can -- whenever you see a problem you're
going to shut it down. Let's give it a try. I mean if that's what you feel you need -- we
need. I mean I'm just -- I'm just getting tired of dog owners expecting the public to take
care of their dogs.
Siddoway: There is really a growing demand nationwide for dog parks and dog
recreation and --
Bird: And that's not your fault, but I got faith you guys will -- if it don't work we will be the
first to know it. You will be back telling us.
Siddoway: Yeah. And we should probably put pilot program in big letters in case it
doesn't go well and we don't want to do it next year. I do understand the sensitivity that
once you do it it's hard to take it back and it will be hard enough to take back come
March 30th, but, you know, there probably will be an expectation at least the next winter
that we would do it again, but we need to temper those expectations with an
understanding that this is a pilot program and we are going to try it and see how it goes.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
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October 23, 2012
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De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I would suggest that if you say pilot program or trial period -- might be better
trial period and you might put an ending date.
Siddoway: Yeah.
Rountree: That way it doesn't -- at least there is a notice out there that it can go away,
as opposed to once it's out there and you say it's an off dog leash area, it's never going
away.
Siddoway: But we know we could never do these off leash areas when have a rib fest
or a brew fest or any large event at any time in Kleiner Park. So, it certainly does not
work in -- in the summertime during events, so this really is much like our winter disk
golf courses that go through ball fields and other areas in other parks. This is a
wintertime offering.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: This is a question that the people on the dog park task force I'm sure have
been involved in this and I guess this is a question -- how much community corporation
do they get? I know that you talked to the task force and the task force probably talks to
a lot of people you don't talk to, but do they get community corporation to buy into
having rules and making it a pilot program that may not be permanent or -- do they
help?
Siddoway: We could reach out to them. They are a small group right now. The primary
vetting process that this has been through so far is with the subcommittee of the parks
commission that does parks amenities and signage. They developed it and, then, we
took it to the full commission at the last meeting on October the 10th and it was
recommended that we take it forward to Council by the commission at that meeting.
The dog park task force did not have a meeting that night.
Zaremba: But -- Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Zaremba: I guess the sense that I'm trying to get is are they helpful -- would they help
control this or talk to their friends that have dogs and say, you know, don't screw this up,
you know, stick to the hours, stick to cleaning up.
Siddoway: I'm certain they would be very excited about having off leash dog hours and
we could reach out to them to help spread the word and the rules --
Meridian City Council
October 23, 2012
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Zaremba: Okay.
Siddoway: -- and the ending dates and things like that.
Zaremba: Okay.
Siddoway: Yes.
Zaremba: I guess that's a suggestion then.
Siddoway: Okay.
Zaremba: Thanks.
De Weerd: Okay. Anything further?
Bird: Go for it.
Siddoway: So, I heard a motion. Is there a vote? Okay.
Zaremba: Consensus.
De Weerd: Yes.
Siddoway: Thank you very much.
B. Community Development: Continued from October 16, 2012:
Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Approval: MDA 12-
005 Sgroi by Nunzio Sgroi Located at 4405 E. Ustick Road
Request for a Modification to the Existing Development
Agreement to Allow the Development of Single-Family
Residential Homes on the Site
De Weerd: Okay. Item 9-B is under our Community Development Department. Pete.
Friedman: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. A few weeks ago the
Council approved a development agreement modification for Mr. Sgroi in which the --
one of the conditions established that there would be a subdivision of 14 single family
lots and two -- at the time townhouse lots. They are really single family attached. Then
last week we came back to you for a clarification about what happens if they wanted to
do fewer lots and we proposed some language, Council was not comfortable with that
language, so we went back, we crafted some other language that spelled out some
other alternatives. In discussion with Mr. Sgroi today he concluded he wants to go back
to the original language, so that we have the findings with the original language before
you tonight and just recommend that you vote on it and we move this forward.
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October 23, 2012
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De Weerd: Council?
Rountree: Madam Mayor, question for Pete.
De Weerd: Yes.
Rountree: If we act on this are we going to see this again?
Friedman: Madam Mayor, Council Member Rountree --
De Weerd: Are you willing to guarantee this, Pete?
Friedman: As much as anything is certain in life. What it came down to is just, in all
seriousness, to answer your question, Mr. Sgroi posed another question to me today
and my counsel to him was let's leave it be. If you have a buyer that wants to do
something else, why don't you let the buyer carry the water on that. We just need to
move this on and I think it was in his interest just to move it. I think he concluded it
probably is in his best interest to -- we have come this far, let's move it forward.
De Weerd: That was a good non-answer.
Rountree: He gave me an answer.
De Weerd: There was no guarantee. Okay.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I would move that we approve the development agreement for MDA 12-005
as presented this evening.
Bird: I'll second that.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second. Any discussion?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: We were actually approving the MDA, not the facts and conclusions? I'm
assuming those will come up at a future -- or are we doing both of those all together?
Rountree: That is the facts and conclusions.
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October 23, 2012
Page 38 of 40
Zaremba: Okay. So, we are approving the facts and conclusions and all that stuff.
Okay. All I wanted to know.
De Weerd: Okay. Anything further? Madam Clerk.
Roll Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, absent.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 10: Future IVleeting Topics
De Weerd: Item No. 10 is future meeting topics. Council, any topics to consider for
future agendas?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Not a topic, but we had some side discussion this last week about Christmas
Day is a Tuesday and New Year's Day is a Tuesday and I made the suggestion that we
cancel the meeting for December 25th entirely and move the meeting from January 1st
to January 2nd and I believe you had some discussion about that in your agenda
meeting and I think we are doing that.
De Weerd: Yeah. We -- we have never met on Christmas and I think it's --
Zaremba: Even that week.
De Weerd: -- very safe to say that we wouldn't change that policy -- it's not a policy.
We wouldn't change that practice.
Zaremba: Yeah. But my point was we are not moving that meeting to Wednesday
either.
De Weerd: No. No, we are not.
Zaremba: We are canceling the meeting on the 25th and --
De Weerd: I think that is very safe to say.
Zaremba: And New Year's Day moving to the 2nd.
Rountree: And that will be duly noticed at the appropriate time.
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October 23, 2012
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De Weerd: Duly noticed and noted.
Zaremba: Yes.
Item 11: Executive Session Per Idaho State Code 67-2345 (1)(a): To Consider
Hiring a Public Officer, Employee, Staff Member or Individual Agent,
Wherein the Respective Qualities of Individuals are to be Evaluated
in Order to Fill a Particular Vacancy or Need
De Weerd: Okay. Item 11-A is an Executive Session. I would entertain a motion to
adjourn into Executive Session.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I move that we go into Executive Session per Idaho State
Code 67-2345(1)(a).
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and the second. Madam Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, absent.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
EXECUTIVE SESSION: (8:53 p.m. to 9:17 p.m.)
De Weerd: Okay. I would entertain a motion to come out of Executive Session.
Rountree: So moved.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: Do I have a motion to adjourn?
Rountree: So moved.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: All those in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:17 P.M.
Meridian City Council
October 23, 2012
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(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
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MAY AMMY DE WEERD DATE APPROVED