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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2004 01-13ncil Meeting January 1 The Regular Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:00 P.M., on Tuesday, January 13, 2004, Mayor Tammy de Weerd. Members Present: William Nary, Keith Bird, Charlie Rountree, and Shaun Wardle. Others Present: Bill Nichols, Will Berg, Anna Powell, Brad Watson, Kenny Bowers, Bill Musser, Doug Strong, and Dean Willis. Item 1. Roll -call Attendance: X Shaun Wardle X Bill Nary X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird X Mayor Tammy de Weerd De Weerd: Okay. I will go ahead and call the Regular Meeting -- City Council Meeting of January 13th to order. I would like to welcome you all here tonight. This is my first official meeting as your Mayor and so I'm thrilled to be serving you and look forward to working together with the community. We will have a couple of new additions, which you have probably noted in your agenda. We will start our meetings now with the pledge and an invocation. I look forward to a working relationship with the scout troops, some of our youth organizations here in the city, and also the faith community and we will offer the opportunity and, hopefully, get the participation from our full faith community, from those of all denominations and churches. We do look forward to working closer together with these new community partners. I will ask the City Clerk to, please, call roll call. Item 2. Pledge of Allegiance: De Weerd: Thank you. We will start with Item Number 2 the Pledge of Allegiance will be led by Meridian Troop Number 62. (Pledge of Allegiance recited.) Item 3. Community Invocation by Steve Moore, Senior Minister at Cherry Lane Christian Church: De Weerd: Thank you. For our community invocation we will ask Steve Moore, who is the Senior Minister at Cherry Lane Christian Church to, please, give us our invocation. Moore: Would you bow your heads with me, please? Heavenly Father and God, on this historic night when our new Mayor leads her first Council Meeting, bless this gathering, direct her leadership, and this entire Council with integrity, for your sake and this community's. On behalf of the citizens of this community thank you for blessing us with a Mayor and Council leaders who are humble and insightful enough to seek your Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 2 of 70 leading. Father God, you say in your word that you know when a bird chirps or a leaf falls, so you know the issues facing this community in this decade on this very night. Growth that is not detrimental congested traffic, a healthy balance between industry, commerce, and residence and to raise another generation that knows right from wrong. It seems somewhat mystical to ask for your direction on this, but your word invites us to ask for direction on even the most minute issues of life. With so much at stake, on behalf of our Mayor Tammy, this Council, and community, I ask for wisdom and vision that projects a nd directs o ur wonderful city. We thank you, God, for the blessing of living in such a place, for those who have preceded and provided what we now have and hold dear. A number of requests appear on this agenda and may you guide our leaders this very night to decide on the basis of community, rather than self interest, so that Meridian holds a reputation as a place where neighbors love neighbors as themselves. In the Spirit and the name of Jesus Christ, our Savior, Amen. Item 4. Adoption of the Agenda: De Weerd: Thank you for those timely reminders. Okay. Item Number 4. You know, before I move to Item Number 4 1 failed to recognize someone last week when I was thanking all of our department leaders and our staff. Dean Willis is our stenographer over there and he works tirelessly with us and spends a lot of time and patience with us and our lack of use of the microphones and mumbling and all of that. You do a wonderful job and I would like to thank you for that, Dean. We will move to Item Number 4, adoption of the agenda. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: I would move -- we need to add an item and we will make it Item Number 20, an Executive Session as per Idaho State Code 67-2345(1)(b) and I believe with that I would move that we adopt the revised agenda. Nary: Second. De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to adopt the agenda as revised by adding Number 20, an Executive Session per Idaho State Code 67-2345(1)(b). Thank you. All those in favor say aye. Okay. All ayes. Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Item 5. Consent Agenda: A. Approve Beer and Wine License for West of Phill 2 — 3355 E. Fairview Avenue #102: Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 3 of 70 B. Streetlight Agreement for Bonito Subdivision (aka EI Dorado Subdivision): C. Latecomers Agreement for Baldwin Park Sewer Line (Capital Development Inc.): D. Black Cat Lift Station Temporary Construction Easement and Temporary Right of Way Contract: E. Agreement for Professional Services — North Slough Sewer Trunk, Keller Associates: F. Three Party Agreement with Nampa & Meridian Irrigation District Five Mile Creek Sewer Crossing: G. Water Main Extension at Linder and 1-84 — Civil Survey: H. Construction Staking — Franklin Road Water and Sewer — Civil Survey: Streetlight Agreement for Champion Park (Hillview Development). De Weerd: Item Number 5 is the Consent Agenda. Bird: Madam President or Madam Mayor. De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: I move that we approve the Consent Agenda as published and for the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest on all proper papers. Rountree: Second. De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve the Consent Agenda and ask the Mayor to sign and Clerk attest on all appropriate papers. Mr. Clerk, will you call roll? Roll Call: Bird, aye; Rountree, aye; Wardle, aye; Nary, aye. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Item 6. Department Reports: A. Mayor's Office -- Mayor Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 4 of 70 1. Re -Appointment of Craig Slocum to the Meridian Development Corporation Board to August 2006: 2. Appointment of Charlie Rountree to the Meridian Development Corporation Board to August 2006: 3. Appointment of David Moe to the Planning and Zoning Commission Seat #2 for remaining term to January 2006: 4. Appointment of William Allen to the Parks and Recreation Commission to October 2006: 5. Appointment of Carol Harms to the Historical Preservation Commission to April 2007: 6. Appointment of Tammy de Weerd a nd Keith Bird w ith Alternates Shaun Wardle and Gary Smith to the COMPASS Board: 7. Appointment of Randy Pipal to ACHD's CICAC: 8. Appointment of Shaun Wardle to the Air Quality Board: 9. Appointment of Bill Nary and David Zaremba with Alternates Brad Hawkins -Clark and Gary Smith to Valley Ride Regional Public Transportation Authority: De Weerd: Thank you. Gosh, I forget I don't get to vote. There are downsides to this. Okay. Item Number 6 is the department reports. I will start off with appointments to the various citizens' commissions and committees that we have. You have the list there before you. I would like to recognize one of those that I am appointing that are with us tonight. Carol Harms is my appointment to the Historical Preservation Commission and her term will b e to A pril 2007. Thank you for j oining us, C arol, and appreciate your interest in helping us in the community. Thank you. Okay. Are there any questions, ddo cussi ns on these appointments? Anyone want to back out what I -- your Bird: Charlie don't open things up at 7:30 no more. Rountree: I'm still thinking about it. De Weerd: Well, I will entertain a motion before he thinks too much. Bird: Madam Mayor? Meridian City Council Meeting January 73, 2004 Page 5 of 70 De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: I would move that we have approve the appointment of Craig Slocum, MDC, Charlie Rountree to MDC, Mr. David Moe to Planning and Zoning. William Allen to Parks and Recreation. Carol Harms to the Historical Preservation Commission. Tammy de Weerd and Keith Bird, with alternates Shaun Wardle and Gary Smith to the Compass Board. Randy Pipal to ACHD's CICAC, and the appointment of Shaun Wardle to the Air Quality Board. I move that we approve those appointments. De Weerd: Okay. Rountree: Second. De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve the appointments of items one through eight and the dates that have terms to them are noted in writing on the agenda for the record. I will ask the City Clerk to call roll. Roll Call: Bird, aye; Rountree, aye; Wardle, aye; Nary, aye MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES De Weerd: Thank you. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: Now for our final appointments, which I understand we have to have a resolution on. De Weerd: Yes. Bird: I would move that we have the attorney draw up a resolution for the appointment of Mr. Bill Nary and David Zaremba, with alternates Brad Hawkins -Clark and Gary Smith, to the Valley Ride Regional Public Transportation Authority. Rountree: Second De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve the appointments as stated for the Valley Ride Regional Public Transportation Authority and ask the -- can we ask that the attorney have the resolution for next week, so they can be -- yes. Mr. Attorney, is that okay? Thank you. Okay. Mr. Clerk, will you call roll. Roll Call: Bird, aye; Rountree, aye; Wardle, aye; Nary, aye. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 6 of 70 B. Planning and Zoning — Anna Powell 1. Discussion of annexation of Vienna Woods and Edinburgh Subdivisions: De Weerd: Thank you. Again, thank you, Carol, for joining us tonight. It is a pleasure to get a chance to meet you in person. I would like to take the opportunity to thank Troop 62 for leading us in the pledge. Okay. Item B is the Planning and Zoning Department. Anna. Powell: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the Planning and Zoning and Public Works Department just wanted to initiate a quick conversation about what the Mayor and Council would like to do regarding the Edinburgh and Vienna Woods possible annexations in the future. The Planning and Zoning staff is currently processing an application -- it's going to the Planning and Zoning Commission next week on this property here, which provides a clear annexation path from Havasu Creek to Edinburgh Place and, then, Vienna Woods through Edinburgh. As you will recall these two subdivisions were developed in Ada County, with the understanding that once the city boundaries were contiguous that those properties would be annexed. The question was whether you wanted us to wait until this application is through the process and completely a nnexed o r i f you k ind of w anted u s to p re -work s ome o f t he annexation procedures and get that going immediately or just wait a little while and that was the primary question. We have some smaller kind of follow-up questions that perhaps we just need to meet with Mr. Nichols to determine things like who should sign the application and what other steps we may need to take as far as additional notice regarding the annexation process, so the primary question is when do you want us to start. Bird: Immediately. Powell: Or do you want us to start? Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr, Bird, Bird: I would answer for one Councilman, that I would like to see it started now, the preliminary, get it going, ready to go, because that was the agreement when we put the sewer and stuff out to them and have it ready to go as soon as that other property is down. We can just annex those two subdivisions and get them within our rolls, as was agreed upon in their Development Agreement, I believe. Nary: Madam Mayor? Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 7 of 70 De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: Yes. I would concur with Council Member Bird. I think more of it, Anna, to me is your staffs time, but there is some time that it takes to do all the process that the law requires and so it seems -- it seems like sort of a waste to simply wait until this other piece is done. I mean we might as well get the groundwork done. I think it's just determined by your staff and the time that you folk have, because it does take some time to do that. Otherwise, I don't think we need to delay based on waiting for the other one. I think we need to get it accomplished as soon as possible for the same reason Mr. Bird just said. Rountree: Madam Mayor, I agree with both comments De Weerd: Thank you. Wardle: Madam Mayor, I agree as well. De Weerd: Okay. What is the process that you will be going through? Will you be sending a letter out to all of the homeowners? Powell: Well, what we anticipated -- we do need to do a couple things first. We need to hire a surveyor to get a boundary description and, then, we will pull together the application. There was some question as to whether you want to meet with them before you actually start processing -- before we start processing the application or if -- I guess I had thought that perhaps a letter for the Mayor's signature included with the notice of the Public Hearing just explaining why this is being done. Kind of what happened in the past may be appropriate just to give them a little background history and welcome them to the city. De Weerd: Sounds warm and cozy to me. Nichols: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Nichols. Nichols: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, we will be sure to look at the recorded agreements that pertain to the consent to annexation, because that will mandate what type of procedure is used, with the idea in mind that even going beyond what is technically required under the state statute may be preferable under these sorts of circumstances. Some of those folks, undoubtedly, bought homes or lots in those subdivisions and didn't see some of the things about consent to annexation and so we will be mindful of the process and try to do it in such a way that it's meaningful information as imparted out to those property owners as part of the process. Nary: Madam Mayor? Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 8 or 70 De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: Yes. I think I would echo that and, you know, whatever information we can provide to those folks, so they do understand, whatever the consent agreements are, so that they -- so they, again, like Mr. Nichols said, sometimes the people haven't seen those things. I know it doesn't bother me to get a copy of a law that tells me what the law is, but I mean I know some folks may not really understand that, but, again, the more information the better. Obviously, there will be some people that may be disagreeing with that, but the more information they have the better they will understand why, so -- De Weerd: I guess as you compile the letter from me, if you can look at the documents that were on the plat or in their CC&Rs -- whatever documentation that refers to the consent to annexation once they are contiguous. I would like that referenced in that letter just so they have a point of reference to go back to in their documents as well. Powell: We can do that and we did look at it today and it was -- there is not much in the Development Agreement. It just basically says that the developer and any assigns or anybody that buys property after that will not in any way hold up the annexation process is basically what it says, so -- and I should point out I don't think it would be necessary, technically, to send a personal letter to each person. I did anticipate that that's what the Planning and Zoning staff would do. It would be some additional cost to the city as far as mailing, but I do think that that is appropriate. De Weerd: I think that would be most appropriate. Powell: Okay. C. Parks and Recreation Department — Doug Strong 1. Draft Agreement between Adventure Island Playground Organization and the City of Meridian: De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Any further discussion? Okay. We will go ahead and move onto Item 6-C-1, the draft agreement between Adventure Island Playground Organization and the City of Meridian, with the Parks and Recreation Department, Doug Strong. Strong: Madam Mayor and Members of the Council, this is an example of an agreement that's been in the works for several months, probably most of the months that I have been with the city, has gone through a variety of evolutions. With the recommendation of Mr. Nichols bringing it before you tonight for just a brief discussion to show you where it is now, so that we can move forward with it. As I think most of you know, St. Alphonsus Foundation has been supporting the Adventure Island playground since its inception and some of the early agreements had St. Alphonsus written in the agreement and it's been back and forth for signature several times. The most recent Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 9 of 70 version is that St. Alphonsus did not want to be in the agreement, so that's where we are now. What you see is identification of Adventure Island playground as Adventure Island in the agreement and the city and I believe everybody has had a copy and an opportunity to read the agreement. With discussion tonight, we would like some direction how to move forward with getting this a completed and signed agreement, so that we can begin construction on that area of Meridian Settler's Park by this spring. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: Is this new Adventure Island playground and water splash pad a -- is it an incorporated, nonprofit organization or something? Strong: Not to my understanding Bird: Well, how do you come into an agreement with this? When we met with them originally -- and this is when St. AI's said they would step up to the plate I brought this up, because I don't know how you -- what you're basically doing is making an agreement with a nonexistent volunteer organization. It's a couple of people. I can't believe the people want to be held responsible to this agreement. I know it's been going on and on. This is the first I knew that St. AI's was not going to be the volunteer community or the one that we had the agreement with. I don't know how the rest of the Council feels, but I have a real problem with not -- with having an agreement with a non- registered organization. Nary: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: I think -- I guess when I'm looking at this agreement, I think -- Councilman Bird, I think -- I mean if we identified at least the principals of this group -- because it appears the only thing they are really required to do is to collect these hold harmless waivers from these volunteers. They are not providing anything in this agreement -- unless I missed something, they are only providing the -- they are providing the labor and materials, but that's going to be bought by the volunteers and all they are doing as an organization -- and I agree with you, I think it -- I mean it is just a committee of folks, is collecting these hold -harmless waivers and giving them to the city, so that we -- Bird: They are raising money to -- Nary: Well, I understand that, but I mean this agreement only does -- all it does is talk about collecting the hold -harmless waivers, organizing the build, turning over the material or turning over the finished product to the city, which I don't really see as -- I don't know that there is really an issue. Maybe part of that hold harmless is that basically, any material that's brought by citizens is donated to the city and they can sign Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 10 of 70 off on that as well. I mean I think you would have to name -- I mean I agree with Mr. Bird in the sense I think you would have to name somebody, because if no one does it, no one's held accountable for it, so -- if they don't do that. I think you're going to have to name some principals, at least, to really be responsible parties to do that. The raising money stuff, I mean in this one -- I'm not sure in this one it has anything about raising money, unless I missed it. Nichols: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Nichols. Nichols: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the lawyer for St. Alphonsus Foundation represented to me they are not out of the picture, they just weren't going to be a party to the agreement. They are still operating in an assisting capacity to Mrs. Lindig and her group. With regard to the -- this is a memorandum of understanding only, it doesn't obligate us to do anything until they have the funds raised. We don't -- we don't go forward with a single dollar of the city's money or on the design side of things until they have raised the funds necessary to do the things that they say they are going to do and that a critical part of what we were trying to do with this agreement. We asked -- or I asked specifically that Mr. Strong bring this to you for your review, partly because new Council Members may or may not have seen some of the elements of this before and also because it doesn't have St. Alphonsus in the agreement anymore. I knew that was a change and rather than have Doug send over an agreement with an obvious change in it, that we would have a discussion about why is it changed and so forth. We wanted to at I east h ave you I ook at it. I f you want us to add i ndividuals' names, if you want us to go back to them and tell them they need to incorporate and create a nonprofit corporation, we can certainly do that. They won't have -- I think they intended to use St. Alphonsus Foundation for the 501(c)(3) status for the donations, so they didn't have to jump through the hoops to qualify as a 501(c)(3) themselves, they could use the foundation for that purpose for people that wanted to make tax deductible donations to the project. That was my understanding. De Weerd: And you're right on on that. It seems -- and once this project is over, this group will no longer exist. It seems kind of above and beyond to ask them to incorporate just until the conclusion of this project. Nary: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: Yes. I think as long as Mr. Nichols is okay with that. I think, really, the only thing, I guess, I would prefer to see in this agreement with them is some principals named as the party's representatives of this Adventure Island group. I mean Mrs. Lindig is a signature on the back and if she wants to be the principal or if they have an executive group of their board or whatever, I think we just want to an account -- I mean I think the public s hould h ave s omething -- s omeone t hat's accountable. I agree w ith w hat M r. Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 11 of 70 Nichols has said is they are not -- the city isn't required to do anything until they actually pony up the money. Having them go through the effort of establishing their own 501(c)(3) seems kind of wasteful and a waste of time, but l think there needs to be some principals, not just a signator, but named in the document and, then, I think -- at least for me I think it's fine. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: I concur with Councilman Nary on that part and what Bill said has cleared it for me, but I certainly want to see some name in here, because anybody could be, you know, representing that community, campaign for the Adventure Island playground. Doug, I have a question. Have we released any of that money? We have budgeted I think 100 or 150,000 towards this. Have we released any of that money to anybody? Strong: Madam Mayor, Councilman Bird, we have not Bird: Okay. I'm like Councilman Nary, I'd like to see whoever is going to sign that, their name or if they are the president of the group or something, within this agreement, I just -- I mean a nonprofit organization that.isn't incorporated, we have to have an agreement with somebody. Somebody has to be responsible for that group and St. AI's has evidently backed out as far as being responsible to this memorandum. They aren't to the part of the deal. I don't believe as a public entity that we can just go out and make agreements with any organization that don't have some backing. I would go along with that. If you want to get a name in there, then, I'm for it. Rountree: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Rountree. Rountree: It's great to have the volunteerism, but things like this just have a way of backfiring on us. This, in itself -- and I don't know the history, but were we to enter into this agreement builds an expectation on the part of our constituents and a fair amount of the money to make this work is through the volunteer effort. If it goes south and we don't have anybody to hold accountable, there is still that expectation that this will be done. T he 100,000 dollars that I read in h ere that the city h as d iscussed i n a prior verbal agreement with this organization, now becomes the full cost of this activity. I guess I'm just cautious in that when we are dealing with a -- in essence, a non-existent entity and I don't know these folks and it's not a matter that I have a distrust for them, but I have been in these kinds of things in the past and occasionally they don't work quit as well as we all think they are going to and that's my hesitancy with this particular agreement. Strong: Madam Mayor and Councilman Rountree, just to clarify some of the money issues, as of December of 2003, there were, -- there was 300,000 dollars in cash Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 12 of 70 contributions to this project and about 245,000 dollars in in-kind donations. So far, they have solid contributions of about 545,000 dollars for this project. I think -- and that's come through St. Alphonsus Foundation to that point, as far as fundraising efforts. It's a pretty solid organization as far as the money goes. They have been very diligent about holding off to even move forward with groundbreaking until they felt they had the money in the bank for phase one of the project. Rountree: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Rountree. Rountree: I think those kinds of things need to be included in the agreement, that those monies they have raised are held in a foundation or an escrow account or something that builds at least my comfort level and maybe the rest of the Council's that it's just not wishful thinking, it's a real deal. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: I would agree with Councilman Rountree on that, because, you know, that is sitting in an escrow under St. AI's nonprofit letters and it don't say a word about it in here and this agreement isn't with St. AI's. What's to say that that money -- we know it's going there, but what's to say definitely that it is. This memorandum doesn't say it. Nichols: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Nichols. Nichols: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, you need to be careful about where you're going with this thing, because if you're going to put into this agreement something about the money that's already been pledged or raised, then, I do think it puts you into the position of having to finish the project. The way this memorandum is worded right now, you don't have to move forward until they have all of the money to do it. If you start putting in there you're going to tie up the money that's been paid to this group that's held by St. AI's, you run the risk of, then, being committed to do the whole project. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: Mr. Nichols, I agree with you on that 100 percent, but what in this memorandum tells us that that money or that they -- who do we -- who is held responsible to do this by this memorandum? It's with an organization that it's just a name only. There is nobody responsible. Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 13 of 70 Nichols: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, if you put Mrs. Lindig's name on this, You don't really have any much more than what you have already. If you -- if she incorporates you have an assetless entity that's a party to the agreement. The only thing -- what I'm hearing you say is go back to St. AI's and tell them they are back in the game and their name has to be on the agreement. That's what I'm hearing you say. Because if you want the party that's holding the funds to be obligated to follow through, it sounds like they need to be back in the game and they need to be part of this understanding. Wardle: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Wardle. Wardle: I believe one of the things that this organization is looking for as far as a memorandum of understanding is not only to complete their timetables and to work directly with the parks department. Also from a donation standpoint, they want to know -- the donors want to know that the city is invested in the project when the funds become available and so we are dealing with a time line on what I feel is a very worthwhile project. Certainly, this is something that if the City of Meridian is going to continue to utilize both volunteers fundraising efforts and involunteer activities. We need to -- we need to figure out at least a process for them to come to us and to build these sorts of things that we have not committed to build ourselves with 100 percent tax dollars and so I think this is a good d iscussion to have. At the same I'm a little bit hesitant to begin naming organizations when they are not going to -- when they have a very fixed timeline. Nary: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: Yes. I guess Councilman Bird and Councilmember Rountree, you know, I think you -- I think you're at an agreement that's ahead of what this. I mean I think all this is is memorializing the understanding we have with this Adventure Island group and I guess I reiterate -- I think that we just want it identified in the document to me as to who that principal is and if it's Mrs. Lindig, that's fine. This isn't an agreement to build it and that's where I think we would be -- that's where I think we would want an agreement like you folks are talking about of who is going to commit the money? When are we going to see it, when is this going to get built, when is the construction plans going to be shown to u s -- that's a whole d ifferent agreement. A II we a re d oing In ere i s I ike I think M r. Nichols is saying is here is our understanding of this group called Adventure Island and the principal is Mrs. Lindig. They will raise money and if they do, they will provide as a group the money and the volunteers and the people to help build this project. Once they do that, the city has decided to commit a certain amount of funds towards the same end of the project. This isn't a commitment to build anything this is just a commitment that they are going to continue to do that. I think as Council Member Wardle stated, it's just Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 14 of 70 so that they can show, just like we have had agreements in the past with Meridian youth baseball or the soccer folks and all of those. This is a way for them to go to their donors and say the city is in, we need this money, this is how we are going to raise it, this is what we are going to do with it, this is where it's going, this is what's going to happened. I think, as Mr. Nichols has stated, I think if the other agreement you folks are talking about puts us further into this project and completing it, but that's really but where these folks are there. They are not even there yet and this doesn't commit the city to anything, other than saying once you get the money, we will participate in the rest of it and I don't think -- I guess I don't see that hurting us to any degree. All I wanted was just a person who was identifiable as a principal of that organization, rather than just a generic name and her signing on the end. Strong: Madam Mayor and Councilman Nary, what you're saying is accurate, because what's defined in the agreement is that they will provide the equipment and the community build -- the volunteers to do the community build. Essentially, buy everything that goes into that build, other than the 100,000 dollars I think that was identified that would be the pour -in-place surface, which I believe has been identified, which is -- it isn't identified that way in the agreement, nor does it need to be. We provide, then, the specifications for how it will be built and supervision of the build process and it kind of keeps everybody clean until that opportunity. At least the way it looks. De Weerd: Any further questions? Strong: What I would need is direction where to go from here, then. Nary: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: Mr. Strong, do you anticipate any concerns from Mrs. Lindig including her name in the document as a principal of the Adventure Island group? Do you think she would have any problem with that? Strong: Madam Mayor, Councilman Nary, I don't see any reason why she would not be willing. She's invested herself so completely in this project that putting her name on a document I think would not concern her. De Weerd: And it's already on there as the signator anyway. Nary: Right. Rountree: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Rountree. Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 15 of 70 Rountree: I heard from counsel, as well as member N ary, about four points. If the agreement could expound those four points and get away from the indemnifications, the maintenances, and all of the other things that we were saying it doesn't include, but, in fact, it does, then, yes, I think it's a great deal. Basically, we have a group, they want to do this, they are going to provide the equipment, the labor, and the money and, yes, the city is behind it to the point that we have already budgeted the money in our budget to the tune of 100,000 or 150,000, whatever it is, and that's the agreement. We have done our part they have done their part, move on. It seems like we are kind of interim in an agreement. We have gone passed that, but not to where I was talking and I agree with what you said, Bill. It seems to me that, you know, four bullet points or four whereas -- or therefore and one whereas, we both agree that we are going to do it. It's clean and it's quick and you don't have to get St. AI's involved and you don't have all of this other stuff that both our attorneys can argue about at some point in time in the future. I guess that would be my direction. Clean it up, get it to the point that we are at right now and we will worry about the details later. Nary: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: Not to belabor it, but I think maybe if -- Councilmember Rountree, I would agree that probably the long-term maintenance provisions in here aren't really necessary. I mean once they turn the material and the project is completed, what we do with it is ours. I mean it doesn't really make a whole lot of difference that this agreement -- it's not going to have any need to exist any longer. It probably just needs to reflect like we have talked about. Everything that's going to happen to the point that it gets turned over. The indem part is really just to cover the city for the volunteers during the build process and I think we want to have something like that hold harmless, but once it's turned over to the city it's probably not necessary, because there is no need to have an agreement any longer with anybody, because we are just going to maintain it, because it belongs to the city. Nichols: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Nichols. Nichols: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I can't recall if it's in connection with this project or perhaps some others. There are some grant funding sources which require as part of the process that the receiving entity promise to maintain the facility for a certain period of time and so in this -- in taking this memorandum of understanding to potential funding sources, that, I believe, is one of the reasons that that provision was in there, even though certainly the city would have every intention of maintaining these things for whole lot longer than 20 years, but I believe that that was where part of that was coming from. Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 16 of 70 Strong: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, that's exactly right, because in Phase 2 of this project we are intending to apply for land and water conservation funds, which have those requirements in the funds which are applied to that phase of the project. It would also look at the rest of the project that contributes to the total project. It's probably important to keep those items in there. That's if we are successful with the application, but it is a way to get additional dollars to the project. Nichols: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Nichols. Nichols: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, just one other thing. The agreement does have the ability to terminate it. If the Council becomes uncomfortable with this agreement at anytime prior to the construction of the project, it can be terminated and, then, our only liability comes is if there were materials purchased in reliance upon the agreement that cannot be returned for credit. That's the liability under the agreement. De Weerd: Okay. Council, Mr. Strong needs to know how to proceed. Nary: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: Mr. Nichols, do you think -- I'm not going to try to repeat them, but we do have a tape. The points as Councilman Rountree pointed out that we can memorialize, you know, what the intents of the parties are here and making sure that that's clear in this agreement. I think we should be -- I think we should be fine. I think the overall intent or the overall document isn't going to change, I think, other than adding Mrs. Lindig as a principal in the body of the text and so as Councilman Rountree stated, some whereases to make it clear what our intentions are and what are anticipated participation is. Would you think that would be complicated or difficult to incorporate? Nichols: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, we will make a stab at it. Again, we wanted to bring this in front of you, because we didn't have the comfort level of just running it passed on a consent agenda with signatures already on it. We want to make it better, so we will do our best and we will provide drafts of the revised agreement to you and you can comment on it and go from there. Nary: Great. Thank you. We will go ahead. I guess what I'm hearing, at least from me, I think is we will go ahead and we will see those drafts and try to get this worked out in the next couple weeks and go forward. Is that -- do you think that's adequate, Madam Mayor? Do you want a motion to that? I'm not sure what -- De Weerd: I would like -- Mr. Nichols, would it be feasible or reasonable to assume that we can have this -- a draft by next week and ask Council to give you comments, so it could be on the agenda in two weeks? Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 17 of 70 Nichols: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I'm going to read the minutes and go back through and do it and so even -- as fast as he is, Mr. Willis usually has those done by Thursday, so I'm not sure -- I'm not sure I can promise you a drafted by Tuesday next week. We will do it as quickly as we can. I don't know that there is any real pressing time frame on it. It's just we have tried to move it to you as quickly as we got it back from St. AI's with the latest changes. De Weerd: I guess the target can be the final documents on the agenda in three weeks and interimly if you can give your comments as soon as you get them back to Doug and our attorney. Okay. I don't think we need a motion. Strong: Thank you. D. City Council President — Bill Nary 1. City Council Appointments: De Weerd: Thank you, Doug. Okay, Item D is the City Council President. Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, we have talked previously about appointments for the different liaison positions. What I was going to do this coming year is try to do them a little bit differently than we have done them in the past, so that way we hopefully maybe can get a little different look at it. What I have ultimately decided, I think after discussions with everyone, on the Public Works liaison, Councilmember Rountree will take that role. That also does include the solid waste advisory committee as Mr. Sedlacek said at our Pre -Council Meeting they go hand in hand together. The public safety we are going to do differently than we have in the past. The Fire and Police Department liaison will be Council Member Bird for both of those departments. Both of the chiefs were very excited about that opportunity and thought that would be a very good fit for them as well in working together as a group for -- they have very similar needs and really felt very strongly about Council Member Bird's participating. That would b e a real asset to them. The Parks Department, Council Member Wardle h as agreed to be the liaison for that department. He has been on the commission, they, again, were very encouraged by his continuing participation, and he will also, with myself, be the liaison for the Planning and Zoning Department. There are some particular needs of some projects and some things that Mrs. Powell wanted to work on and for time considerations, I think for both of us that are going to work out for both us, as well as the department. Then, finally, I guess a group that I -- for lack of anything else, I labeled as public services, the services that originate out of City Hall. Currently the finance department, the human resources department, and the city clerk will have one liaison. I will take that duty and responsibility for the next year for those three departments and I have communicated that to all the different departments, so they are aware that of that. Council Members, they will be providing you with the monthly check runs for each of the departments for your review. We haven't changed anything in regards to our fiscal policies, so those remain the same. For Council Member Rountree Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 18 of 70 and Wardle, what we decided about a year and a half ago, I think, Council Members will review all the expenditures of each of the departments that exceed 5,000 dollars and will sign off on those expenditures. The ones that are less than that don't require Council signature, but, certainly, in the discussion with your different department heads that you're working with, you're going to have to work with them as to how you want that communication to flow as to what's going on. What they are doing and, of course, obviously, when the budget time rolls around that will be the next phase of the liaison responsibility is working directly with those departments on helping to formulate their budgets and enhancement for the next year. Unless I forgot something, I think that was it. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: I didn't hear you, Bill, but I might have -- you were taking HR right? Nary: Right. Human resources, City Clerk, and finance out of this building, so -- Bird: Okay. De Weerd: Okay. I'm assuming that that is all agreeable. I would imagine that we need a motion to confirm those assignments. I can't remember -- Bird: No. De Weerd: No. It's what he said. Rountree: It's his choice. Bird: What he says. De Weerd: Okay. Just for clarification, you sign documents or checks for the purchase orders from purchases over -- 5,000 dollars and above, but you will get a check run on all purchases that you are to review and discuss with your departments. Nary: Madam Mayor, one last thing I forgot. Also, I guess everyone knows this, but as Council President I also will review the expenditures, the PO's from the Mayor's Office as well and, then, the check runs from that as well, so — Item 7. (Items Moved from Consent Agenda) De Weerd: Okay. Okay. Any further comments, questions? Okay. We will move on. There are no items moved from the Consent Agenda. Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 19 of 70 Item 8. Ordinance No. Ordinance Amending Amended Sign Ordinance No. 03-1055: De Weerd: So, we will move to Item 8, Ordinance Number 04-1063, an ordinance amending the Amended Sign Ordinance Number 03-1055. 1 will ask the City Clerk to read this by title only. Berg: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Ordinance Number 04- 1063. An ordinance of the City of Meridian amending Section 5.1.4.A pertaining to animate d signs of Chapter 14 of Title 11 of Meridian City Code to provide for the deletion of the word no pertaining to text messages and to reference to the definition of scrolling within the section, providing for conflicts, validity, a savings clause, and providing an effective date. De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. You have heard the reading of Ordinance 04-1063 by title only. Is there anyone in the audience who would like to hear it read in its entirety? Thank you. Council, any action? Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: I move we pass Ordinance 04-1063, the ordinance amending the Sign Ordinance Number 03-1055, with suspension of rules and for the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest. Wardle: Second. De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve Ordinance 04-1063. Mr. Clerk, will you, please, call roll. Roll Call: Bird, aye; Rountree, aye; Wardle, aye; Nary, aye. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Item 9. FP 03-067 Request for Final Plat approval for 61 single-family residential building lots and 22 common lots on 35.81 acres in an R-8 zone for Cedar Springs Subdivision No 4 by Howell -Murdoch Development Corp. — west of North Meridian Road and north of West Ustick Road: De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Item Number 9, FP 03-067, request for Final Plat approval of 61 single family residential building lots and 22 common lots on 35.81 acres in an R-8 zone for Cedar Springs Subdivision No. 4. 1 will ask for staff comments. Powell: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is the Preliminary Plat for Cedar Springs North. They have just continued the Cedar Springs name in the Final Plat. The Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 20 of 70 Final Plat is approximately in the red circle location and, then, the collector road extending out to McMillan. North is to the right. This is the area of the Final Plat. These are t he t wo Final Plats and there is the collector road as you can see there. Their Final Plat is in substantial compliance with the Preliminary Plat. Staff is recommending approval. I did get a phone call and an e-mail from Mr. Daren Fluke, who is representing the applicant, saying that they have reviewed the staff report and they are in agreement with the report and conditions contained therein. They are not here tonight. De Weerd: Thank you, Anna. Any questions, Council? Bird: I have none. Rountree: I don't have any. De Weerd: Okay. I would entertain a motion. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: I'm going to make a motion, but we do have this written to enter into the public record. We got a written on Mr. Fluke's -- Berg: You got a copy of my e-mail. Bird: Yes. I have a copy of Will's e-mail. De Weerd: And that's what Anna had just referred to. Bird: Yes. De Weerd: Thank you. Mr. Bird, they are going to keep you busy tonight Bird: Yes, they will. Madam Mayor, I'd move that we approve FP 03-067, the request for a Final Plat approval of 61 single family residential building lots and 22 common lots 35.81 acres in an R-8 zone for Cedar Springs Subdivision No. 4 by Howell Murdoch Development Corp. West of North Meridian Road and north of West Ustick Road, incorporate staff comments, and for the attorney to draw up the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision of Order. Rountree: Second. De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to a pprove FP 03-067 for Cedar Springs Subdivision No. 4, with the attorney to draw up the appropriate paperwork. Mr. Clerk, with you call roll? Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 21 of 70 Roll Call: Bird, aye; Rountree, aye; Wardle, aye; Nary, aye. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Item 10. FP 03-066 Request for Final Plat approval for 14 single-family residential building lots and 4 common lots on 6 acres in an R-4 zone for Parkway Subdivision by Six Point Development, LLC — 355 West Ustick Road: De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Item Number 10 is FP 03-066, request for Final Plat approval of 14 single family residential building lots and four common lots on six acres in an R-4 zone for Parkway Subdivision and I will ask staff to open this with staff comments. Powell: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is the Preliminary Plat for Parkway Subdivision. It takes -- it's a small subdivision, as you see, taking access just off of Meridian Road. It does incorporate an existing home site and a large lot to the north of the site. There is a single-phase Final Plat and it is substantial conformance with the approved Preliminary Plat. Staff did want to go on record. There is some concern about the proposed drainage lot located down here. We expressed concerns that we -- a fear that may become a wet pond and that, then, would not qualify as the required open space for the development. Again, staff wants to go on record as saying that we -- they have submitted the design construction plans to the Public Works Department. Those were approved, but it was missing specific information to determine the geometry of the drainage basin, which is to say in lay terms that we don't know how deep this thing is and we don't know if it's going to be wet yet, so we just want to go on record saying that if it becomes a wet pond, that the developer will have to compensate for that five percent required open space in another location. There is a condition of approval that states that, but, again, we just want to make it clear. De Weerd: Do you feel comfortable moving forward with -- Powell: Yes. We just want the developer to know that we have our doubts as to the drainage out there and the depth to groundwater and their ability to keep that a dry pond. De Weerd: Okay. Any questions? No? Is the applicant here tonight? Please come forward. Do you have any comments regarding this for -- on staff's concerns? Cook: Madam Mayor, Richard Cook, I'm with Briggs Engineering, 1800 West Overland Road, Boise, and no -- we are aware of the potential problem and we will do whatever we have to do to make it work. De Weerd: Okay. Any questions for the applicant? Bird: I have none. Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 22 of 70 Rountree: None. De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Cook. Cook: Thank you. De Weerd: Okay. Council? Rountree: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Rountree. Rountree: I move that we approve the Item Number 10, request for Final Plat approval for 14 single family residential building lots and four common lots on six acres in an R-4 zone for Parkway Subdivision by Six Point Development, LLC, at 355 West Ustick, incorporating staffs comments and directing counsel to prepare appropriate findings and conclusions. Bird: Second. De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve FP 03-066 for Parkway Subdivision. Mr. Clerk, will you call roll. Roll Call: Bird, aye; Rountree, aye; Wardle, aye; Nary, aye. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Item 11. Public Hearing: VAR 03-019 Request for a Variance for an additional Time Extension for recording of the Final Plat for Schwenkfelder Tire Subdivision (fka Commercial Tire Subdivision) by Pinnacle Engineers, Inc. — west of South Meridian Road and south of West Franklin Road: De Weerd: Number 11 is a Public Hearing on VAR 03-019, request for a Variance for an additional Time Extension for recording of the Final Plat for Schwenkfelder -- I'm sorry -- Tire Subdivision, formerly known as Commercial Tire Subdivision. I will open the Public Hearing with staff comments. Powell: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is a request for a Time Extension through the Variance process. You approved Commercial Tire Subdivision on December 18, 2001 and January 7, 2002 you approved the one time only Time Extension to allow another year. The applicant has stated that there was a delay in recording because there was confusion among the client, the architect, the owner's representatives, ACHD, and the engineering firm concerning the recording of the subdivision and that's why they have not been able to record it as allowed by the current code. Staff was unable to make the findings for Variance, so staff has recommended Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 23 of 70 denial. Although, we do recognize that the City Council has approved 11 similar requests for the one-year Final Plat submittal or the one-year recordation requirement. That's since January 2000 and I did discuss with Councilmember Nary how we would hope to correct this in the future, because we do recognize that our ability to grant time extensions is limited by the current code and that it is perhaps shorter than other communities in the valley, so with that I will answer any questions. De Weerd: Thank you. I appreciate the footnote there. Council, any questions? Bird: I have none. De Weerd: Is the applicant here? Oh, they sent the big guns. Is the testimony you provide tonight the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? McKinnon: It is. De Weerd: Thank you. Please state your name and address. McKinnon: Dave McKinnon, 735 South Crosstimber. I suppose I'm here tonight to throw myself at your mercy. We have been through a lot of these in the past when I was with the City of Meridian and even since I have since moved on. I know that you have had these types of applications in front of you. I know that Anna just mentioned the fact that there is some other jurisdictions that allow the continuation in a much larger time frame, you know, two years before you require the extension. We are at a point in this subdivision right now where it's at ACHD. The construction drawings have been approved. It should be placed on ACHD's agenda to be approved. My involvement in this project goes back to the first time it came through the City of Meridian. It's kind of come full circle now. I wrote the first report for the City of Meridian. I wrote the Time Extension report for the City of Meridian and now I'm asking you for one final extension, so we can get this done. As soon as it's back from ACHD, it will be Brad Watson's desk. We only need a few more months to wrap this up. The construction drawings have already been approved by the City of Meridian, so we are basically just asking for a few months for a time extension on this. As far as the findings for a Variance, there is some language within the Variance findings under Subsection A and B in your staff report that allow for other types of exceptions that would be allowable if it is determined that it's unreasonable to require us to go back through the subdivision process and consider the fact that the ordinances haven't changed significantly since the time these were approved. The Landscape Ordinance was in effect, as it currently is when this was approved and that was the only major ordinance that has changed since these were approved. That's the only major ordinance revision that the city has seen in the past few years that would have had a large impact on these projects. I would ask that you a pprove the Variance request tonight, allow an additional time extension for this project, and ask if you have any questions at this time. De Weerd: Council, do you have any questions? Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 24 of 70 Nary: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: I know Mr. McKinnon knows I absolutely hate these Variance things, but I guess I'm curious, because I noticed in the staff report -- and I was trying to note in your application. The staff report indicates that the reason that your client needs the extension is they didn't quite understand how to do this right and that doesn't really make a lot of sense to me. McKinnon: Oh, it wasn't that we didn't know how to do this right there is no way to get an additional Time Extension unless you go through the Variance process. In the staff report and in my narrative it talks about some confusion. My input on this, having worked for the city, is when the architect called our office and said I submitted for a permit and they kicked it back, because the plat wasn't recorded. At that point, I said, well, why wasn't the plat recorded and the architect didn't know. We had to go back a little further and find out why it wasn't. There was some confusion between the owner, the owner's representative, and the engineering firm as to whether or not it should have been recorded and that's where some of the confusion was found. In addition to that, there was some concern with ACHD concerning the connection of Pennwood all the way through towards the -- I believe it's 7th Street to the west and there was some concerns as to how wide that should be. I remember there was some discussion at the first Time Extension on that. Nary: Thanks for clearing that up. McKinnon: Thank you. De Weerd: Council, any further questions? Okay. Thank you. McKinnon: Thank you. De Weerd: This is a Public Hearing. Is there anyone else who would like to testify on this application? Council? Nary: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: I'd move we close the Public Hearing. Rountree: Second. De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to close the Public Hearing on Item Number 11. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried. Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 25 of 70 MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Nary: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: It just pains me to do this, but I would move to approve VAR 03-019. Oh, I'm sorry, I guess is there some discussion? I guess I'm ahead of myself, so I'm sorry. Rountree: Madam Mayor, I rejoice that Mr. Nary would make that motion. Please go ahead. Nary: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: I would move the approval of VAR 03-019, the request for Variance for an additional Time Extension for the recording of the Final Plat for Schwenkfelder Tire Subdivision by Pinnacle Engineers, west of South Meridian Road and south of West Franklin Road, pursuant to staff comments. I think as the comments are tonight, as well as the comments from the applicant, that counsel prepare Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law, Decision and Order pursuant to City Code 11-18-3. Bird: Second. De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve VAR 03-019 for Schwenkfelder Tire Subdivision, formerly known as Commercial Tire Subdivision. Mr. Clerk, will you call roll. Roll Call: Bird, aye; Rountree, aye; Wardle, aye; Nary, aye. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Item 12. Public Hearing: VAR 03-020 Request for a Variance for a Time Extension for recording of the Final Plat for Heartwood Subdivision by Pinnacle Engineers, Inc. — northwest corner West Franklin Road and Northwest 10th Street: De Weerd: Okay. Item Number 12 is the Public Hearing VAR 03-020, request for a Variance for a Time Extension for recording of the Final Plat for Heartwood Subdivision. I will open with staff comments. Powell: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is a Time Extension for recording the Final Plat as done through the Variance process. This is a two -lot subdivision that has frontage on Franklin Road and, then, immediately to the west is Linder Road. You originally approved it on October 16, 2001. They did receive their one time one-year Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 26 of 70 time extension on November 12, 2002. The reason for the delay in recording, as stated by the applicant, is that they were unable to find a prospective tenant until now. Staff was unable to make the findings for their variance, so we are recommending denial, with the footnote that since January 2000 the Council has approved 12 similar applications. We have the comments from forward as well. With that, I will answers any questions. De Weerd: You might note that we have a new Council. Any questions, Council? Okay. Is the applicant here? You still have to be sworn in. Is the testimony you provide tonight the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth so help you God? McKinnon: It is. De Weerd: Thank you. Please state your name and address McKinnon: Dave McKinnon, 735 South Crosstimber, again, here tonight to cause Councilman Nary more pain and to grovel some more to ask for a Time Extension for this project. I'll just keep my comments short, as we have already discussed the whole idea of the Variance for this type of use, but just to point out that a Conditional Use Permit was secured for this project several years ago. The Conditional Use Permit that was secured was to allow two buildings on this site. The applicant came in afterwards and asked for a subdivision to this site. When he originally came in for the Conditional Use Permit the planned ordinance had not yet been adopted, so there was no time frame put on the Conditional Use Permit, so it will not expire until such time as the Council says it would or would not. The 18 -month time frame for expiration is with the PUD. He could still build two buildings on this site without going through the process of subdivision, but it would just create a longer process if he had to come back and start the process over again. He has found someone to take over the site. He's in negotiations with them at this time and we will get this project pushed through and signed by the -- actually, just get it recorded within the one year time extension. Thank you. De Weerd: Council, any questions? Thank you. McKinnon: Thank you. Nary: Good groveling. De Weerd: This is a Public Hearing. Is there anyone further who would like to testify? Council? Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 27 of 70 Bird: I would move that we close the Public Hearing on VAR 03-020, the Variance for a Time Extension for Heartwood Subdivision by Pinnacle Engineers. Rountree: Second, De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to close the Public Hearing on Item Number 12. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES De Weerd: Discussion? Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr, Bird. Bird: Hearing no discussion, I move that we approve VAR 03-020, the request for a Variance for the extension for recording of the Final Plat for Heartwood Subdivision by Pinnacle Engineers, northwest corner of West Franklin Road and Northwest 10th Street and for the attorney to draw up the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision of Order. Rountree: Second. De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to approve VAR 03-020 for Heartwood Subdivision. Mr. Clerk, will you, please, call roll. Roll Call: Bird, aye; Rountree, aye; Wardle, aye; Nary, aye. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Item 13. Public Hearing: CUP 03-054 Request for a Conditional Use Permit to modify commercial to include four out pads, 25,000 square foot retail and include Phase II of office complex in C -N and R-40 zones for Devon Park Subdivision No. 1 & 2 by Hopkins Financial Services, I nc. — 8 24 E ast Fairview Avenue: Item 14. Public Hearing: CUP 03-055 Request for a Conditional Use Permit to construct a 25,000 square foot retail building with a drive up window in a C -N zone for Devon Park Subdivision No 1 & 2 by Hopkins Financial Services, Inc. — 824 East Fairview Avenue: De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Clerk, Items 13 and 14, if there are no objections, I will open the two. Council? Okay. I will open Public Hearing CUP 03-054, request for a Conditional Use Permit to modify commercial to include four out pads for a 25,000 square foot retail and include phase two of office complex in C -N and R-40 zones for Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 28 of 70 Devon Park Subdivision No. 1 and 2. Also Item Number 14, Public Hearing CUP 03- 055, request for a Conditional Use Permit to construct a 25,000 square foot retail building with a drive -up window in a C -N zone for Devon Park Subdivision No. 1 and 2. 1 will open with staff comments. Powell: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, as we are all well familiar, this is the Devon Park site and it has gone through a number of changes to their original conceptual planned development approval. I think a few months ago I kind of went on a tirade about the number of changes that we had been seeing on this and these two applications I have to admit are what prompted it, because we couldn't figure out what was going on anymore. We have resolved that and we have it all straightened out. This is the -- what the applicant is proposing and just a real quick rundown on some of the changes. One of the last reviews that we had adopted -- and, I'm sorry, these are a little hard to see. They went to kind of a small office pattern that kind of wings around here and, then, some other ones in the center and I think they were pleased with that arrangement and they kind of mirrored it over onto this side as well. They have also included one more pad out along the Fairview frontage, so that -- those are kind of the big changes. There was a change in the type of use. They have increased the office component by approximately 35,000 square feet and reduced the commercial retail component by approximately 18,000 square feet. There is an overall gain in square footage, but it is distributed throughout the smaller buildings and, then, as I mentioned, they added the pad along Fairview. This is what they are proposing and, then, this was the former -- how it stood on the previous approvals -- most recently. There is also a little bit different relationship on how the larger buildings relate to the surrounding properties and staff has addressed that in the staff report. The second Conditional Use application is for this building here and that's the detailed -- detailed CU approval for that structure. This is the site. These are the elevations. The Planning and Zoning Commission did work to kind of breakup this facade long here, I will get to the Planning, and Zoning Commission changes. This is the front elevation. Okay. Going to the summary sheet from the Planning and Zoning Commission with recommendation to the City Council. Doug Tamura did testify in favor of both applications on the applicant's behalf. The Commission, as I mentioned before, discussed the buffer width between Fairview Terrace Mobile Home Park and the retail buildings and that was where they had the concern about this large blank facade right facing the mobile home park and I will go back up to the site plan -- or the vicinity map. That building -- the long facade is - - does go that way and it kind of butts up to the mobile home park there. No other public testimony was received, written, or verbal. They did -- the Commission did add trees beyond the minimum requirements within the 20 foot buffer area next to this facade. With that, there were no outstanding issues before the City Council and I will answer any questions you may have on either application. De Weerd: Council, do you have any questions? Is the applicant's representative here? Tamura: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, my name is Doug Tamura. Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 29 of 70 De Weerd: I'm sorry. We need to swear you in first. Is the testimony you provide tonight the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Tamura: It is. De Weerd: Thank you. Please state your name and address Tamura: My name is Doug Tamura, 499 Main Street. I'm the owner, architect, and developer of this project and we concur --we are hereto concur with Planning and Zoning's recommendations and conditions of approval. We are just here to announce that we signed a lease with Hastings that would be our first commercial tenant and so we are here to go ahead and -- we need to have them built and ready to occupy by the 1 St of August, so -- De Weerd: Mr. Tamura, can you put this either on the stand over there, so that our other citizens can see what you're referring to. You have a pointer there in front of you if you need to point something out. Tamura: One of the things that required us to make these final changes is that we have been in negotiations with Hastings for the last three or four months. They finally decided that they would rather be on the -- on the left side of Lakes Avenue versus the right side and so it required us to change our whole site plan. When I worked with Anna we thought the best would be to just clean up the whole thing, submit what we believe is going to be our final presentation on how the whole project will layout. One of the things that we did do is that the second phase of the commercial, which is on the east side of Lakes Avenue, is only a conceptual only, so as we have tenants that come up we will submit detailed conditional uses for each one of those items. We are in the process of just starting construction on our first three office buildings. The road and cul-de-sac -- Lakes Avenue is installed to here. It's tied into Teare right here. We have got the infrastructure for the stoplight and the stoplight will be installed by the end of this month. We have got all the sidewalks in place and as soon as weather permits we will go ahead and start installation of those street lights and landscaping and, then, we are working with our sign people on constructing our sign works, so, hopefully, by this spring we will have all our ponds in place, our signs, and under construction on our first commercial building, along with three of the office buildings. De Weerd: Thank you. Any question? Nary: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: So, this building here, Mr. Tamura, is that here or is that there? Tamura: It's this building right here. Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 30 of 70 Nary: Okay. Thank you. It looks really good. Tamura: Thank you. Are there any questions? De Weerd: Thank you. Is there anyone else who would like to testify on Item 13 or 14? Seeing none, Council, is there any discussion? I would entertain a motion to close the Public Hearing. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: I move we close the Public Hearings on CUP 03-054 and CUP 03-055, both of them for Devon Park Subdivision No. 1 and 2. Rountree: Second. Nary: Second. De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded twice to approve the closing of Public Hearings on Items 13 and 14. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES De Weerd: Discussion? Nary: Madam Mayor. De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: Just briefly, I think it looks really nice. I think Mr. Tamura has really done a good job here. It's going to be a very nice addition and I think from Planning and Zoning standpoint getting it built means you won't keep changing it, so -- Bird: Get some buildings up so it can't get changed again. De Weerd: I'm sure staff appreciates it. Thank you for being patient. Wardle: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Wardle. Wardle: I would also agree that the public's had an opportunity to comment on the 20 foot setback, changing from 25 to 20 feet, and agree that the developer will add some trees in there to mitigate that as well, so -- and the building looks great. I think it's great to bring in new businesses to the city and I think this will be a fine addition. Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 31 of 70 De Weerd: Thank you. I would entertain a motion. Mr. Nary, Nary: Oh. Madam Mayor, I'd move the approval of CUP 03-054, request for a Conditional Use Permit to modify the commercial to include four out pads, 25,000 square foot retail and include phase two of the office complex in a C -N and R-40 zone Devon Park Subdivisions No. 1 and 2 by Hopkins Financial Services at 824 East Fairview Avenue. To include all staff comments, comments of the applicant, and for counsel to prepare Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision and Order. That's it. Bird: Second. De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve CUP 03-054. 1 will ask the City Clerk to, please, call roll. Roll Call: Bird, aye; Rountree, aye; Wardle, aye; Nary, aye. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES De Weerd: Thank you. Item Number 14. Do I have a motion? Mr. Wardle. Wardle: Madam Mayor, I move that we approve CUP 03-055, request for a Conditional Use Permit to construct a 25,000 square foot retail building with a drive -up window in a C -N zone for Devon Park Subdivision No. 1 and 2 by Hopkins Financial Services, Incorporated, 824 East Fairview Avenue. To incorporate all staff comments and direct counsel to draw up appropriate Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law. Bird: Second. De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to approve CUP 03-055, Devon Park Subdivision No. 1 and 2. Mr. Clerk, will you, please, call roll. Roll call: Bird, aye; Rountree, aye; Wardle, aye; Nary, aye. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Item 15. Public Hearing: CUP 03-049 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for an Emissions Testing Center in a C -C zone for Hark's Corner Emission Center by L&J Capital Ventures, LLC — 1651 West Franklin Road: De Weerd: Thank you. Item 15 is a Public Hearing on CUP 03-049, request for a Conditional Use Permit for an emissions testing center in a C -C zone for Hark's Corner Emissions Center. I will open with staff comments. Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 32 of 70 Powell: M adam M ayor a nd M embers o f t he C ouncil, t his i s k ind o f a n a ncillary u se that's been requested on the Hark's Corner site. Hark's Corner is approved for multiple uses, so we didn't feel it necessary to redo the planned development. This does add an emission testing van in the northeast corner of the property. You'd think those would be easy things for me. They are not. Sorry. This is the site plan as shown on one of the former site plans. The use does not show up in the schedule of uses. The closest use that I could determine was a public, quasi -public use, because it is sanctioned by the state for the auto emissions testing. That is why they are here with a Conditional Use request before you. With regard to the specific application, the applicant's representative Jeffrey Hall did testify in favor of the application at the Planning and Zoning Commission. No members of the public testified opposing or with any concerns regarding the application. The key discussion items at the Planning and Zoning Commission were the existing and proposed landscaping and, then, the location of the shed a nd its relationship to the required parking a nd a Iso s ignage. Y ou m ight h ave noticed there is quite a bit of additional signs out there. This is a little shot of the facility. It is sitting there currently in operation. The Planning and Zoning Commission did recommend that a planter be placed at the corner of the emissions testing building. They have not done that yet. It was a little unclear -- if you look on Page 2 of the recommendation, right underneath site specific comments, it says in additional to all site specific requirements required by the CUP for Hark's Corner, a planter is required to be located at the corner of the emission testing building between the building and the emission testing lane. The lane would -- I don't know if you're going to be able to see that. The lane is in this area here, so the Commission wanted kind of a landscape buffer in this location. That has not been installed yet. They did not specify a width to that, so if the Council wanted to clarify that a little, that might help the applicant. In addition, the Council wanted to clarify for me how you might want to treat these in the future. That would also help. I don't know. They are not really a temporary use. These things tend to go in and stay in. With the upcoming zoning ordinance update, I just wanted some general comments from you, if you could, on how you might want to treat these in the future. De Weerd: Thank you, Anna. Any questions, Council? Bird: I have none. Nary: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: I guess on that last point -- I mean I'm glad it's a structure and not just a van, because I think it looks more like a business than just a van. Do we have something in regards to like -- I mean the only thing I can think of is an espresso stand, because it has that small structure out in the parking lot of another business and something like that. It seems like that would be the most similar type, because you have got drive -up traffic, you have got a small little structure out there, it's already -- it's an accessory use Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 33 of 70 to the property that's already there. That would be the most similar one I could think of fora schedule or something like that. Powell: And I think we have required just traditional retail approval of those and they are considered a drive -up window, so we have required Conditional Use Permit approval of those as well. You're right, people are still idling in these things, so they are kind of just a drive -up window with not much service is really what they are, without the retail component, and I will treat them that way if they want. This one they did not want to put it on a permanent foundation, because I think once it gets known as being on this site, they do want to relocate it to a different portion of the site, which wasn't really addressed in their application at all. In my original discussions with owner that's what was -- that's what I was told, so they didn't put it on a permanent foundation or anything like that. Maybe the applicant wants to comment on that. De Weerd: Any further questions? Comments? Is the applicant or the representative here? Is the testimony you provide tonight the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Hall: Yes, it is. De Weerd: Thank you. Please state your name and address. Hall: Jeffrey Hall, 1651 West Franklin Road, Meridian. I just want to touch on a couple things for you. The first thing is the recommendation of Planning and Zoning Commission to do a planter. We felt and staff wanted to have a nice landscaped area there that would take up part of our parking, also part of our space where people drive up to get their emissions. They, actually, have to be within about three feet of the building in order to do the appropriate emissions with the cables and everything to reach their vehicles. We thought we would go ahead and do a little round planter on one of the corners and that is what we determined, so I don't remember -- we never did discuss anything about size of the planter or anything else, just as long as we put something decorative there. We did talk about doing a planter and we have got a planter, although with the current weather conditions we thought we probably wait until spring to put the planter there with the plants in it, otherwise, I don't know what people would really t hink o f i t a t this point. S econdly, we did discuss a bout t he building as mobility and that we can move it at anytime, although we don't know if we will ever want to move this building. For right now it's great where it's at and if we ever in the future decide to move it on any other part of the other future development that is going into the west, that we, of course, will have to come back before you. Any questions? De Weerd: Council? Nary: Madam President? De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Meridian City Council Meeting January13, 2004 Page 34 of 70 Nary: Or Madam Mayor. I'm sorry. De Weerd: That's all right. Nary: Were you talking about a fairly large planter, like, I guess, keep somebody from hitting the building? You're not talking about a plastic planter here? Hall: No. We -- actually, it's a stone. It's a stone planter. Nary: I don't know what we would do without Mr. Van Hess and something to do with plants, but -- Hall: I know. We probably don't want to touch on that today Nary: Right, Hall: No. No. Actually, we have got over that now, so we can move forward. De Weerd: Okay. Any other comments? Thank you. Is there anyone else in the audience who would like to testify on this application? Counsel, what is your pleasure? Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: Hearing nothing, I would move that we close the Public Hearing for CUP 03-049. Nary: Second. De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to close the Public Hearing for Item 15. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES De Weerd: Do we have a motion? Rountree: Discussion? De Weerd: Or discussion. Do you have discussion? Rountree: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Rountree. Rountree: I'll make this comment. I may as well start, but I think the last time I made this comment when I was on Council it ended up in the letters to the editor, but I will Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 35 of 70 make this comment again. This is nothing against the application it's everything to the City of Meridian. We literally ask the developers to spend thousands of dollars in design landscaping in esthetic detail for these sites and, then, we do this to them. What are we doing? Which way are we going? We have to decide. These things are very necessary in our community but is there a better way to do it? I don't know. We need to think about that. Anna, to your point, maybe that's something we need to think about is how to deal with these things, if, in fact, it's our intent to develop a pleasing visual experience to live in Meridian. End of comment and editorial. De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Rountree. Wardle: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Wardle. Wardle: I move that we approve CUP 03-049, request for a Conditional Use Permit for an emissions testing center in a C -C zone for Hark's Corner Emission Center by L&J Capital Ventures, LLC, 1651 West Franklin Road. To incorporate all public and staff comments and direct Council to draw up appropriate Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law. Nary: Second. De W eerd: It has been moved and seconded to approve CUP 03-049 for a Hark's Corner emission center. Is there any further discussion? Okay. Mr. Clerk, will you, please, call roll. Roll Call: Bird, aye; Rountree, aye; Wardle, aye; Nary, aye. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES De Weerd: I s there any d irection that C ouncil would I ike to g ive A nna as t hey start working on guidelines for this type of an application? Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: I would just like to follow up what Charlie said and I agree with him wholeheartedly. We put in these developments and make people spend thousands and thousands of dollars for landscaping and, then, set out in the middle of the lot something like that. Not that I would like to see any business being run off, but I think there is things we can do to make it more attractive, Anna, and I think that's something that needs to be worked with. Powell: Madam Mayor? Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 36 of 70 De Weerd: Anna. Powell: Sorry. I guess I'd like to hear what Council Member Wardle wants to say first. I'm sorry. De Weerd: Mr. Wardle. Wardle: Madam Mayor, I was just going to say my -- could be an issue that I think we deal with, not just as a city, but it's something that we deal with regionally. Again, the service is very necessary to our air quality and it's something that with some help from Anna I'd like to bring up to my recent appointment to the Air Quality Board, so if you'd feel comfortable maybe bouncing some ideas off and I could get some connections for you there. Powell: Okay. I guess all I was -- Madam Mayor? Excuse me. De Weerd: Anna. Powell: Are you leaning toward not wanting to have any kind of structures -- a pre -fab structure, such as this, that are not on a permanent foundation or aren't within properly landscaped areas. Is that kind of what I was hearing or -- Rountree: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Rountree. Rountree: I don't have the concept in mind, I don't have it on paper, but we recognize that this is an important part of our community. We have to be concerned about air quality. As such, we know that we ought to incorporate knowing that in the designs of these kinds of activities on these street corners that are going to be frequented by a lot of traffic in looking for these kinds of businesses. That if we are going to have the developers design features into their developments architecturally and landscape wise, we ought to work with them to develop some way to fit these things better, as opposed to just kind of a protrusion in whatever it is they have spent a lot of time and money to do. Whether it's a -- the concept might be something like a bus stop that you would design along a thoroughfare that, you know, you get them off, you put a bench, you have seating, you might well do something like this in some of these pads that they are off to the side, they might be surrounded street side with landscaping. You have to deal with the signing appropriately. Something that incorporates them, however, into the site, as opposed to just having them be a -- in a lot of cases just an interloper. I'm here today, I'm there tomorrow, and I might be on this end of the parking lot today. If the power doesn't work out of the power pole here, I'm going to be down on the other end tomorrow, I'm going to have my sandwich board, I'm going to have my sandwich board there -- it just doesn't make sense to me when I see and we need it, we ought to just work with the developers to incorporate the need in their site plans. Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 37 of 70 De Weerd: I guess the only thing I would add is that we would want to I ook at the arterials or the streets that they are on and how those designations are. Some of our areas we require a larger setback because it is a major thoroughfare it requires more beautification. There might be different standards, and certainly maybe the building instead of the van or -- those are d etails that could be b uilt into i t and m aybe even similar color schemes to the building or the development that they are in, similar rooftop of something. Those are some ideas, Anna that you could incorporate into some kind of standards for this. Powell: Thank you. De Weerd: Maybe more than you wanted know how to say it. Powell: Cortabitarte. Before I open the next item. I would like to Item 16. Public Hearing: AZ 03-026 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 5.11 acres from RT to C -G and I -L zones for Cortabitarte Annexation by Jack Cortabitarte — south of East Fairview Avenue, and west of North Eagle Road: De Weerd: Okay. I'm glad I asked. I will go ahead and move to Item 16, Public Hearing AZ 03-026, request for annexation and zoning of 5.11 acres from RT to C -G and I -L zones for Cortabitarte annexation. I will open with staff comments. Powell: Madam President -- Madam Mayor. Oh, man, I almost made it. Sorry. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. This is the subject property. The applicant's representative h ad o riginally t alked t o m e -- t he g oal i s t o f acilitate t he e xpansion of American Food Services, which is on this location, into this property. They basically want to move their lot line back -- rear lot line back, so that they can use a larger area here. It was two different subdivisions in two different jurisdictions, so it presented quite a problem, so we d id work most of that out through this a nnexation a pplication. The applicant is requiring annexation of the entire property. The lot line adjustment -- cops -- would -- is ready to go. The City Engineer has researched these issues necessary as to how to do it between the two different subdivisions and has reconciled that, so he is prepared to sign the lot line adjustment application. This property will just be developed as part of the food services building. This property, staff has recommended a Development Agreement. They are requesting zoning to C -G on this portion and, then, I -L on this portion. The Comprehensive Plan does designate this as mixed use regional and staff has been consistently requesting a Development Agreement that details all the policies from the Comprehensive Plan associated with the mixed-use regional classification. It is a much smaller site than most of the ones that we have seen that have come forward with just the annexation request and no development application. Let's see. Kent Brown, representing the applicant, testified in favor of the application at the Planning and Zoning Commission. It does come forward with a recommendation for Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 38 of 70 approval. Jack Cortabitarte, the applicant, also testified in favor of the application and responded to questions. They did make a specific change to the staff report that was in regard to an existing building on the northern portion of the property. Staff was under the initial impression that that building would be removed. The applicant did ask that they not be required to abandon the residential use at this time, but as such time as sewer and water were available, that that use would be abandoned at that time. That it would be developed for a commercial or office or other appropriate use for that zone, but that the existing residence would stay in use on the septic system and well until such time as services were available. The summary -- staff's summary to you did mention the lot line adjustment as an outstanding issue. That has been resolved, as I mentioned earlier. With that, I will answer any questions that the Mayor or Commission might have. De Weerd: Any questions, Council? Bird: I have none. De Weerd: Mr. Rountree. Rountree: Madam Mayor -- they are going to make me say president. Anna, is Fairview part of the gateway system? I was going to look and did not. I'm sorry. Powell: Fairview from the boundary to the east, which is a quarter mile west of Cloverdale, for about a mile, so it only goes a quarter mile from Eagle is listed as a gateway and, then, after that it is no longer a gateway. This property is not -- Rountree: Okay. Thank you De Weerd: Thank you. I don't see any further questions. Is the applicant or the applicant's representative here? Thank you. Is the testimony you provide tonight the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Cortabitarte: Yes, it is. De Weerd: Thank you. Please state your name and address. Cortabitarte: My name is Jack Cortabitarte, 3115 Crescent Rim Drive, Boise, Idaho. The property is owned by my family, my uncle, and myself, as a result of a deceased uncle. It's a farmhouse, a 5.1 acre farm, that they have owned -- my uncle owned since 1949, 1 believe, when he bought it and Food Service of America is our neighbor adjacent and they want to expand their operation for parking of their trucks on the back portion of the property. We have been working with the City of Meridian for -- Planning and Zoning for about a year and a half and got it resolved where we would annex the entire property into the city. Then, ask for two zonings, one to facilitate Food Service of America with an industrial zone and one to appropriately position the front for what it really is is a commercial zone. Currently it is a small farmhouse on the front, a Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 39 of 70 residential farmhouse that the family intends, once city sewer and water is available to our site, which it is not now, by the City of Meridian, we will market the front property as commercial. De Weerd: Thank you. Any questions Council? Rountree: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Rountree. Rountree: Madam Mayor -- we have our -- I have a question for you. Cortabitarte: Oh, I'm sorry. Rountree: Just to clarify for the record. Is the transaction between you and Food Service of America one of lease or sale? Cortabitarte: The transaction that will be done if this is approved is a sale. Rountree: Okay. Thank you. De Weerd: Thank you. Is there anyone further who would like to testify on this application? You're all waiting for the very last; right? Council, we have an open Public Hearing. Wardle: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Wardle. Wardle: I move that we close Public Hearing AZ 03-026. Bird: Second. De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to close the Public Hearing for Item 16. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES De Weerd: Council, action? Or discussion? Or both. Rountree: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Rountree. Rountree: I think the issue that concerns me with this is just the one of nonconformancy by allowing continual residence in the particular house, the building on the -- what would Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 40 of 70 be C -G zoning. Other than that, I think it's consistent with what we want to do. I'm not sure that -- I know we are setting precedence occasionally with some things we do, but that's one that I'm not sure we want to -- I don't think we want to go there. Nichols: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Nichols. Nichols: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilman Rountree can you articulate your concern a little more for me? Is it a concern of a nonconforming use continuing on the commercial zone or -- Rountree: Precisely. Nichols: Okay. Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr, Nichols. Nichols: Members of the Council, one of the things that would mitigate for this property to be developed as it was zoned is that as a nonconforming use. Someone that would want to buy that house and get a conventional loan is not going to get a conventional loan, because they are not going to get a rebuild letter from the city that says since it's a nonconforming use, if the use is damaged or there is a fire, that kind of thing, it can't be put back as a residence. That restriction on the ability to borrow, to sell, really helps keep these nonconforming uses from being continued passed the normal life of the structure, for one. Secondly, just the nature of this property on Fairview I think would probably be such that it would -- the more problematic thing would be somebody coming in and wanting to convert the house into a commercial use and still continue to use the septic system. That would be the more problematic issue. De Weerd: So, Mr. Nichols, those are things that need to be made clear and I believe the applicant knows that that is a nonconforming use and he could not sell it as a residence or continue or to remodel with the septic system to a commercial use. The applicant is nodding his head, so -- Nary: Or converted to a caretaker house. Bird: No. De Weerd: That really opens the -- Nichols: Madam Mayor, if I may ask Councilman Rountree. Does that address your concerns? Rountree: Madam Mayor, that certainly clarifies some of the issues that I could anticipate doing that. Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 41 of 70 De Weerd: I believe that those are clarities or things that we can make clear in the findings. Any further discuss? I would entertain a motion. Wardle: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Wardle. Wardle: I move that we approve AZ 03-026, request for annexation and zoning of 5.11 acres from RT to C -G and I -L zones for Cortabitarte Annexation by Jack Cortabitarte, south of East Fairview Avenue and west of North Eagle Road. To incorporate all public and staff comments and direct Council to draw up appropriate Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law. Nary: Second. Rountree: Second. De Weerd: Thank you. Does that motion that's been moved and seconded ask the attorney to make clear the comments that Councilman Rountree cited? Wardle: Yes. De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve AZ 03-026. Mr. Clerk, will you, please, call roll. Roll Call: Bird, aye; Rountree, aye; Wardle, aye; Nary, aye. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Item 17. Public Hearing: AZ 03-021 Request for annexation and zoning of 114.52 acres from RUT to R-8 (PD) and C -G zones for proposed Redfeather Estates Subdivision No. 2 by Packard Estates Development, LLC — south of East Ustick Road and east of North Eagle Road: Item 18. Public Hearing: PP 03-024 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 302 building lots and 28 other lots on 90.29 acres in a proposed R-8(PD) zone for proposed Redfeather Estates Subdivision No 2 by Packard Estates Development, LLC — south of East Ustick Road and east of North Eagle Road: Item 19. Public Hearing: CUP 03-041 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a Planned Development for single-family residential use with reduced setbacks, lot sizes, lot frontages, house sizes and increased block lengths for proposed Redfeather Estates Subdivision No 2 by Packard Estates Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 42 of 70 Development, LLC — south of East Ustick Road and east of North Eagle Road: De Weerd: Thank you. Since we have saved the best until last, I will go ahead and open Items 17, 18, and 19, the Public Hearings for AZ 03-021, request for annexation and zoning of 114.52 acres from RUT to R-8 PD and C -G zones for the proposed Redfeather Estates Subdivision No. 2. Public Hearing PP 03-024, request for Preliminary Plat approval of 302 building lots and 28 other lots on 90.29 acres in a proposed R-8 PD zone for proposed Redfeather Estates Subdivision No. 2. Public Hearing CUP 03-041, request for a Conditional Use Permit for a planned development for single-family residential use with reduced setbacks, lot sizes, lot frontages, house size, and increased block lengths for the proposed Redfeather Estates Subdivision No. 2. 1 will open with staff comments. Powell: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, here we go. I'll try and keep it brief, but give you enough information that you can understand tonight's testimony. This is the area of the applications. The -- in particular the annexation and zoning application. The Preliminary Plat covers this area and this area. It does not include this property out to the west. This is -- the annexation path is from Stokesberry Subdivision, across Eagle Road and, then, to the area contained within the Redfeather Preliminary Plat. This is Ustick Road up here. Some of the key features here is that there is a large one - acre subdivision within Ada County. There was -- Duane Drive does stub to this property to the south. The City of Boise wraps around the property like this. There is a school right here. Ustick Elementary is right at the edge of the city limits and does have a short common boundary with the proposed application. You can see the elementary school there. These are additional ones of Duane Drive if you want to go back to those. This is the -- phase one of the Preliminary Plat. For reference, again, here is Ustick. Here is the elementary school. Come down into the property. There is a stub street to here. The Planning and Zoning Commission, I believe, did discuss a stub street in this area for the Clover Meadows Subdivision. Then, as you saw on the application, there is a connection point here to this other property that's located here, so you see a close up of that. They are taking some property from this lot, so that -- to continue that roadway through that area there. There are stubs here. They did provide a stub to Duane Drive. ACHD -- at the ACHD hearing the motion was -- or the wording was that the gate would be removed -- they did install an emergency access only gate. That the gate will be removed when a formal request by anyone, i.e., the City of Meridian, a citizen, the developer, a resident of the Perkins -Brown Subdivision, et cetera, is received by the district to open Duane Drive to make it public right of way. There was discussion of that at the Planning and Zoning Commission that the -- asking the applicant to work with ACHD and the -- and the residents of -- along Duane Drive of that subdivision to come up with some more clear wording as to exactly who could request that and clarify that before coming to you. I would imagine that Mrs. McKay will have that information for you later today. Let's see. The other issues related to the plat were, as I mentioned, the connection somewhere to the south. The Clover Meadows Subdivision, which I believe is down here, does not have a way to get through the property to the school. They were looking, hopefully, to have some pedestrian access through the site, so that Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 43 of 70 their kids have a better path up to the school. Regarding the planned development that accompanies this application, the applicant is asking for reduced lot frontages, reduced lot sizes, block lengths that exceed the city's maximum block lengths and minimum block lengths, so they are below the minimum and above the maximum. They were to clarify the Ustick Road right of way and street buffers along Ustick Road of 25 feet and street offsets and, then, stub streets. There were quite a few issues raised in the planned development. In exchange for the reduced allowances, the applicant has provided a park -- a 2.37 -acre pocket park with swimming pool and cabana and, then, on the -- and, then, a 10 -foot pedestrian pathway along the South Slough or the Finch Lateral as it's also known. There were a couple of other issues I wanted to raise. Go back to -- oops. We have -- staff has consistently on these requests for annexation and zoning without a development -- or without specific development plans, we are consistently asking for a Development Agreement that clearly identifies what the Comprehensive Plan policies are for the mixed used regional Comprehensive Plan designation, which is also applicable in this case. Just as a reference, perhaps you will remember the Kissler annexations come around here and, then, also around here. They will kind of connect up with this and we also have been getting interest on these two corners for the C -G zoning without any specific development approvals. We have gone through and added those Comprehensive Plan polices, which do include a mix of uses, including residential. The other issue I wanted to talk about was to, hopefully, get some guidance from the Council regarding illegal lot splits in Ada County. This property, in particular, was attached to this piece of property prior to 1985. It was recently split off. However, it has changed hands about three times. The Planning and Zoning Commission did not require the applicant to obtain the owner's permission to annex that property and include it in the subdivision. They did take that away. Staff is kind at a loss as to what to do. Our subdivision ordinance says that the lot has to be a lot of record as of April 1984. However, Ada County says that you -- for any property that was of record as of January 1, 1985, you are entitled one legal lot split. We cannot rely on ours, because their could be to -- for us to say for you to come in with a subdivision it has to be what the property looked like in 1984. We can't rely on that, because someone could do legal sub -- one-time splits within Ada County. It gets difficult when you get multiple owners -- changes in ownerships over time such that -- that I think this has changed hands twice -- or this twice and this once since the illegal split was done. On the other hand, staff really doesn't want to encourage illegal splits in the county before they come into the city and staffs reluctance regarding that is because you really lose the urban fabric. In this case, you're going to have sidewalk and street up to here and, then, it's just going to stop and, then, it will pick one once it hits the city limits again. These properties, until they are redeveloped or brought into the city, will always just kind of have a blank -- no street improvements and in this case it was -- I had particular concerns, because there was a school there. The applicant -- I did ask her aside from the Public Hearing for the Planning and Zoning Commission to work on some connections to the school. They have brought that back with this application tonight. They did readjust the lots to provide a pedestrian path that accesses that very corner of the school, so that they can get those kids to the school without having to go to Ustick and I did appreciate that effort on the applicant's part or the applicant's representative. In general, this question of illegal lot splits is also going Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 44 of 70 to come up on another application that's headed your way and I haven't talked to you about it, so I just wanted to know some of your thoughts on it and where you wanted the staff to go regarding those illegal splits. The one remaining issue, I believe, is the issue of the water -- looping the water service and the applicant's representative did meet with Public Works and they did say that they will -- to adequately serve that property they will need to loop that water system with the first phase of the plat. With that, I'll answer any questions. De Weerd: Council, do you have any questions for staff at this point? Nary: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: I know we are going to get a lot more, but, Anna, did I hear right on that stub street to that Perkins -Brown Subdivision there is gate there, is that a private road and they want to put a gate for basically just emergency access only? Powell: Correct. This is a public street. It's not a private road. It is a public street, but it is -- it's developed to county standards at the time it was constructed, so it's not a curb, gutter, sidewalk street, as is typically known. This is a view of Duane Drive up there. Nary: It's a public street on both sides of that gate? Powell: Yes. There is a stub street -- Nary: And Mr. Grove wants to put a gate across the public street there? Powell: N o. N of t he -- t he P erkins-Brown S ubdivision requested t he g ate, b ecause they did not want the traffic from this subdivision going up Duane Drive, which was not approved to full ACHD standards. It was in response to their request that this gate was installed as an emergency access only and, then, ACHD put in the provisions that whenever anybody asks it will be open. Nary: Okay. Thank you. De Weerd: Council, before we proceed with the applicant and testimony on this application, would you desire a 10 -minute break? Bird. I would Rountree: Some parts of me would. Bird: I move that we have a 10 -minute break. Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 45 or 70 Rountree: Second. De Weerd: Okay. We will reconvene in 10 minutes (Recess.) De Weerd: I will go ahead and reconvene the meeting. This is a Public Hearing. The general process that we follow is we open with staff comments, allow the applicant up to 10 minutes to explain the project and anything that might have been brought up during staff comments. Then, invite public testimony for three minutes, with the applicant to have an opportunity to answer any questions that might have arose during the public testimony. With that said, I will ask the applicant to, please, come forward. Or representative. McKay: Becky McKay Engineering Solutions 150 East Aikens, Eagle De Weerd: Is the testimony you provide tonight the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? McKay: Yes, De Weerd: Okay. Thank you, Becky. McKay: Thank you. As Anna indicated, this is an annexation and rezone application, along with an accompanying Preliminary Plat and Planned Unit Development application. This is kind of an unusual application, because we had to find a pathway of annexation. If you recall six, eight month ago, we petitioned the city to remove this area out of the Meridian area of impact, asked that it be released, and go to Boise City. After long discussion with the Council, it was determined that since the South Slough Trunk was basically on its way eastward, that it was in the best interest of the city that this property remain within Meridian's area of impact and that they would have the ability to service this property in the near future. The one struggle we had was, obviously, finding a pathway of annexation. We did that by incorporating two parcels that are on Eagle Road. As you can see, the Schrammeck and the Bryson property. Our application, even though it has 114.5 acres in the annexation application, only 90 of those acres -- 90.29 to be exact, are part of our Preliminary Plat and our planned development. The other 24.23 acres is part of the Commercial area that we are requesting a C -G zoning designation. On your Comprehensive Plan, the residential portion that's in our Preliminary Plat is designated medium density residential. That's three to eight dwelling units per acre. The portion along Eagle Road corridor where we abut the city limits is designated m ixed use regional. We d id not s ubmit a plan on the m ixed-use regional area. We talked with staff about that and they believe that with a development agreement requiring any uses to come under conditional use and, obviously, setting forth some types of standards in your Comp Plan for that Eagle Road corridor and the mixed use regional area, they felt comfortable with approving that as a C -G zone and, then, we requested an R-8 zone on our residential portion with a planned development Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 46 of 70 overlay. We are proposing 302 buildable lots. These are all single-family lots. Detached dwellings. No attached. We have approximately 28 common lots and our open space we have 10.3 acres total open space and nine percent of the project is in what we call eligible open space for the -- qualifying under your definition under your landscape ordinance. Our design of this project -- this is the Boise portion that my applicants owned. That's 20 acres. We submitted applications to Boise city, we were annexed and approved and we are currently under construction with what we call Redfeather No. 1 and that's why this is Redfeather No. 2. We are improving the south half of Granger Street and, then, with this application we will take Granger Street and build this collector roadway all the way up to Ustick, aligning with the existing subdivision to the north that's in Boise City limits. We have different products of homes. The area up here adjoining Ustick or the arterial, these are 50 foot lots. They are about 5,500 square feet. Then, as we go south the lots continue to get larger and larger. They are ranging from 5,500 square foot, we have got some 65's, 7,000, 8,000 and, then, 9,000 as we get down in this area along the southern portion. This is approximately 2.37 acres and it's a -- like a private pocket park. We have got pedestrian pathways coming into the park. There will be a clubhouse, a pool, a parking lot, and some play facilities there for the children. We connect to Briarwood Subdivision with a pedestrian pathway, because there is not enough right of way at the end of their cul-de-sac to extend that roadway into our project. Therefore, it's a pedestrian only connection. There is also a very large old tree that prohibits us from having a secondary access on Briarwood, like an emergency vehicle access, so that was the best that we could do. As Anna indicated, one thing that was bought up at the Planning and Zoning Commission was to make a connection to the elementary school site. This right here is Ustick Elementary. The staff asked us to get with Wendell Bigham of the school district, see if we could come up an alignment for a pedestrian path to keep from sending these kids out to Ustick or the arterial to get to school. We have agreed upon that pathway location. We have revised our drawings to incorporate that, so we have solved that issue. The Milks Lateral comes across this proper just like this. It's an open ditch. We will be piping that pretty close to its historical location. We will be working with the Perkins -Brown Subdivision, because they have got a large box and headgate, which diverts water in I, think two different directions. We will have a pump station off of that Milks Lateral. It's a Nampa -Meridian station that's on it right now serving Dawson Meadows. We will go in and upgrade that pump station to make it a regional station and Nampa -Meridian will own and maintain that. This lot you see here in white is part of our subdivision. This person owned a larger portion of ground and they wanted to keep like roughly three acres. We did provide your staff with a lot layout showing how that lot could redevelop in the future and they have got that in our file. As we come westward we have this pod down here and this was the area of contention. We had two public hearings at the Ada County Highway District commissioners and a problem arose with -- Duane Drive is a straight, substandard, rural section. It's about 21 -- between 21 and 24 feet wide, no curb, gutter, or sidewalk. It goes in a straight line for almost one half -mile Very low density, two and a half acre lots all along that. Their concern was with this property developing we could generate up to eight or nine hundred trips per day exiting Duane Drive. Now, that was within the threshold of a local street, so we did not exceed that threshold, but their concern was, obviously, the changing of the character of their neighborhood and the inability of that Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 47 of 70 rural substandard street to handle that kind of volume of traffic. The Highway District Commissioners struggled with this idea and we came up with what they thought was a good compromise and I had to agree with them. We will go ahead, dedicate this right of way, and build this right of way. We will put chokers at this intersection here and improve it up to the b oundary o f Perkins -Brown. We will work with the Meridian Fire Department to make sure that they are acceptable with this type of a gate design here, but, yet, the gate will have to allow pedestrians and bicyclists to ingress and egress out of the subdivision and, then, obviously, any emergency vehicles that would come into this pod down here. In the motion, there was some confusion about what their intent was. Mr. Mills and I discussed it just a minute ago and I discussed it with their staff. I have read their minutes, what they stated was in the event that an interested party were to submit application to the commission to open this street. They would have a new Public Hearing and readdress or revisit that idea, so that they weren't just -- they didn't want to cut it off for any opportunity in the future to open it if need be. Their reasoning was at some point in time there is only one way in and out of Perkins -Brown Subdivision. It may be the desire of that development -- of that subdivision that they have a secondary access, because it may be too difficult to ingress and egress to Ustick. That was their reasoning and they did not -- and I stressed to them if you forego this opportunity to make some type of a connection, but, yet, block it off, it's lost forever, and so they recognized that. The other thing they had us do is they had us move our stub street here to the west down to this location, so that when the properties to the west develop, that it would discourage any traffic if this were to be open from coming up in this direction. As far as servicing this property, if we go westward, the South Slough has been bored to the east side of Eagle Road. We will be extending that. I believe a 12 -inch main. We have also met with your staff concerning water. Water is on the west side of Eagle Road, so it does need to be designed and bored to the east side in order to loop the system. You have water -- a 12 -inch water main in Ustick that we will have to bring in, extend down Ustick, and bring down into this development, therefore, looping your whole water system out in this area. I believe that the staff and ourselves have come to an understanding that we think will work for everyone. In this area here your staff asked that we put a basketball court. De Weerd: I'm sorry, Becky, can you -- McKay: I'll wrap it up. Asked that we put some type of an amenity on here. We had a basketball court. Also, there is a multi -use pathway that's in your parks plan that we are showing here. Do you have any questions? De Weerd: Council, any questions? Nary: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: Mrs. McKay, I mean in looking at the commission action for ACHD on that gate, I mean all they say is when a formal request is received by the district to open it, the gate Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 48 of 70 will be removed. Was there more -- is there some other document that reflects that they would have another Public Hearing and they'd have more process than what this says? McKay: My recollection of Commissioner Wynkoop indicated that they would hold another hearing and have opportunity to discuss it again and revisit it. You may -- I guess you may want to question Mr. Mills. He was at the same meeting, so were all the residents of Duane Drive. That was the impression that I got in what Commission Wynkoop said. In their minutes it's an abbreviated minutes and so it didn't get everything that he stated in his motion. Nary: I'm looking at their site-specific conditions of approval in their report and Number 7 says install swinging gate at the connection of Duane Drive and Palm Street for the present time. Construct a pedestrian bicycle pathway that connects the improvements on Duane Drive and it has an asterisk part that says the gate will be removed when a formal request by anyone in the City of Meridian, a citizen, the developer, or a resident of the Perkins -Brown Subdivision, et cetera, is received by the district to open Duane Drive. McKay: Okay. Councilman Nary -- and Mr. Mills indicated it should have said received and approved by the commission. I believe that is correct. Nary: Well, I know we have had lots of issues over those types of things. McKay: Okay. He said it should -- Nary: What it says is what is says, so -- McKay: Okay. He said it should have said received and approved by the commission. That was their intent because they would have to have some type of formal action to open it. They couldn't just with somebody sending a letter and say, okay, we are going to open the gate tomorrow. Nary: That's what it says. McKay: But that's not what -- you know, that was not, I don't believe, their intent. I guess one could misconstrue it. Yes. You're correct. De Weerd: D efinitely could. A ny other q uestions for the applicant's representative? Thank you. Nary: I'm sorry, Madam Mayor, one more thing. On that pool -- I mean how big a pool and clubhouse are you talking about? 2.3 acres for that whole site seems fairly small to me. That's barely larger than our Adventure Island playground. How big is -- how big is this pool and clubhouse facility? Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 49 of 70 McKay: Well, usually, the -- the last one we did the clubhouse was only like 800 to 1,000 square feet. They are usually kind of like a meeting room for birthday parties, anniversary parties, and things like that. They are not a big, big clubhouse. Then, the pools are typically larger than a residential pool, but not as big, obviously, as something like the Y. If you look at this drawing here, the landscape architect has depicted it to scale and you can see here there is the parking facility, there is the clubhouse, there is the pool. Then, all their pathways, their playground equipment, and you can see that there still is a substantial amount of the area is still in usable grass area. Nary: And if I heard you right, Mrs. McKay, I thought you said it was nine percent of the -- McKay: Nine percent of the entire 90 -acre site is eligible open space. Nary: And I guess I was thinking isn't a PUD requirement 10 percent? McKay: No, sir. You have the option. Nary: Oh, Okay. McKay: Two amenities or 10 percent. Nary: And how long is that pathway? McKay: This pathway here? It's running probably about 400 feet, 500 feet. Just what adjoins us and the South Slough. Nary: Madam Mayor, if I could just ask one more question, too. On that out parcel of the property owner that piece there at about the center on the east border you know, the other -- this piece. This piece here. McKay: Oh, up here? Nary: No this piece here. McKay: Oh, yes. That's a park Nary: Okay. McKay: It's being annexed and part of our plat. Nary: Oh. Okay. McKay: This portion is not a part, sir. Nary: I got it. Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 50 of 70 McKay: This is owned by another property owner and we have stubbed to him. The issue of the annexation one was that parcel. Nary: Okay. McKay: And I can explain that if the Council would like understanding of how that transpired. De Weerd: Would you like that explanation, Council? Rountree: Sure. McKay: At one time Mr. Smitchger owned part of this property, including this home and one acre that the house sits on. Powell: Becky, could you use the overhead, so that the audience can see what you're doing? McKay: Sure. De Weerd: There is a pointer. McKay: There is Mr. Smitchger's home right there. Back in approximately 1997, Mr. Smitchger sold off the bulk of the property to the Caven's, but he retained the house and the one -acre and, then, the Caven's sold it to my client. My client was not aware of the fact that this illegal division took place and, obviously, had no part of it. My argument at the Planning and Zoning Commission was Mr. Smitchger attended our Public Hearing on the issue of the area of impact change and he was quite vocal that he preferred not to be in anyone's impact area, because he didn't want to be in Boise City limits or Meridian C ity I imits. I told the staff that if they required o r m andated that I include that, he's not going to consent to that annexation. There is no way. I mean he was just -- you know, he's an elderly gentleman, wants to be left alone and wants no part of this. It puts us over a barrel. We don't intentionally go out there and illegally split these parcels, we are -- usually it's some act by some other entity, but we have to deal with them and if I can clean them up, I do. In this case, I can't -- I can't fix the wrong. Nary: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: That pathway, Mrs. McKay, it's approximately in this location here below these two out parcels? Is that right? McKay: Right. It runs right down that lot line and matches up with the elementary site. That's their playground right there. Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 51 of 70 Nary: So, how would people here really use that? Through this? McKay: Yes. Nary: That's the only access point? McKay: Yes. They'd come down the sidewalks. Nary: So, the people that live here, their only access to the school on the sidewalk is to walk all the way around here to get to that path. McKay: Right. They come down the detached -- we'd have detached sidewalk along the collector, so they wouldn't be right up against the roadway and the kids would come down there and, then, come in just like that. It would still be quicker than probably going out, around, and into the site like that. Plus it keeps them off the arterials. De Weerd: Becky, I just would like clarity on that nine percent open space. Are you including the drainage lots? McKay: The drainage lots -- we exclude in our eligible open space -- we base that on your definition of your landscape ordinance. We exclude any required arterial buffers it says, which would be any landscaping along Ustick, any landscaping on both sides of Granger collector drive. Anything that can be considered usable open space. The staff has deemed if it's drainage it has to be -- if you're using that as your -- we are only required to have five percent. We are at nine. Even if some open space was ineligible, like some of these drainage strips that we sometimes do, say like this, it -- we'd still exceed the required landscaping. De Weerd: Yes but you're counting it. McKay: We count it if it meets the criteria under your landscape ordinance, yes. Powell: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, we do allow drainage areas to qualify as open space, as long as they are not wet ponds and that was the issue I brought up earlier this evening is that once it becomes a wet area it no longer qualifies. Unless it's a water amenity, but -- McKay: And, Madam Mayor, we have no groundwater at this site. Yes. De Weerd: Any further questions, Council? Thank you. McKay: Thank you. De Weerd: Okay. Did we have sign up sheet, Mr. Clerk? I will go ahead and accept testimony in favor. Is there anyone else who would like to testify in favor of this Mardian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 52 of 70 application? Okay. I will first need to swear you in. Thank you. Is the testimony you provide tonight the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Belcher: I do. De Weerd: Thank you. Please state your name and address. Belcher: My name is Fitzroy Belcher. I live at 2920 Duane Drive. This subdivision as proposed will back up to our property. As planned, I will have three lots backing onto my property. Duane Drive, as has been stated, is approximately 25 feet wide. It's landscaped to the pavement all the way through. There are no curbs, sidewalks, or gutters. Most of the people on the street have livestock, cattle, and horses. There are some sheep and there are some goats. W e a re concerned about t he density that's going to back up against our properties. The second item of concern is keeping the traffic off of Duane Drive. Being only 25 feet wide, we can't stand a whole lot of traffic and when you talk about 900 vehicle trips per day, as ACHD has projected, that's too much. Ada County Highway District voted to close it, except for emergency access only, and I was at the meeting and I did not hear this, that any person or whoever could go and ask it to be open. The motion doesn't read that way in the ones that they sent out to us, to the public that testified. It would help the traffic situation if we had access to Eagle Road for that 20 acre piece, the south piece that's not up there now. In my letter to the Council I asked that development, that is the construction of housing on that 20 acres, be withheld until such time as access is out to Eagle Road and that would help us a lot. If the Council or whoever decides that Duane Drive has to be open with unlimited access, we ask that, it be developed to a full 50 -foot platted width with sidewalk, curb, and gutters. We also ask that we not be required to pay for that improvement, that if it's to be done in the future, the developer pay for that. That's our concerns on it. De Weerd: Thank you Belcher: We are also concerned about water, since we are all on wells, and the source of our -- where none of us are on deep wells, we are all on shallow wells and the irrigated ground to the east of us is what kept us with water. In the early '90s we -- there were three or four places on the street that had to lower their pumps, because of the low water table. When I first moved there the water table was about three feet, it's down now to about 25 feet or 30 feet. De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Do you have questions for Mr. Belcher, Council? Nary: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: Mr. Belcher, where is your property located in the relation to the Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 53 of 70 Belcher: Okay. If I can get this thing to work. I am -- see the other -- go back. Okay. My property is right here. Nary: Thank you. De Weerd: Thank you. Is there anyone else who would like to testify? Is the testimony you are about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Williams: Yes, it is. De Weerd: Thank you. Please state your name and address Williams: Carla Williams, 2830 Duane Drive. De Weerd: Thank you. Williams: I support everything that Mr. Belcher just said. We have had many discussions about this, but there are a couple more items that I would like to bring up. One is in regard to the wells, it's really unclear to us what this development is going to do to affect both our irrigation and our drinking water wells, and there hasn't been a lot of information given to us on what those effects are. The second thing is on the development of Duane Drive. If you look at the picture that shows the actual street and you see all of the trees, one of the things that's really unique about this street and creates the quaintness of the street is all of the mature trees. These trees are anywhere from ten to 25 years old. If the street gets widened, many of these trees are going to have to be removed. In addition to requesting for the curbs and gutters, I would also bring up the fact of what's going to happen to this landscaping and how will that be restored. My third point is on the traffic. The development that was done by Heather Meadows that butts into Duane Drive off of Ustick Road, there was a pretty big development done there. The funeral parlor was put in several years ago and we are continually getting more and more traffic onto Ustick Road. It's harder to get from Ustick Road onto -- or, excuse me, from Duane Drive onto Ustick Road, because of the activity that's happening. Ustick Road is a two-lane road and there are -- there is a turn lane into Heather Meadows. Adding this kind of traffic down Duane Drive without it having a turn lane is going to be a big traffic issue and probably safety issue, too. Those are the points I'd like to make. De Weerd: Thank you. Any questions? Okay. Thank you very much. Anyone else who would I ike to testify o n this? I s t he testimony you p rovide tonight t he t ruth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Stokes: It is. De Weerd: Thank you. Please state your name and address. Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 54 of 70 Stokes: Mark Stokes, 2870 Duane Drive. To start out with, the issue of the density, the majority of the lots there are Duane Drive are two and a half acre lots. I think most of the residents are kind of consigned to the fact that there is not a lot we can do to change that disparity between the size of the lots. The big issue has been the extension of Duane Drive into that 20 acres that sits to the south. This matter was before the ACHD twice. The first time I urged them to go out and actually look at the site. At that time, I think two of the commissioners had actually gone out and looked at the street and convinced the others to take the opportunity to go out and look at it. When we all got together the second time is when they did vote on the issue of the gate and I think it was a reasonable solution that the residents -- residents can live with. Ms. Bowcutt, I think on the developer's behalf, is happy with it. The ACHD commissioners were -- found it acceptable. While it's kind of a nonstandard or nontypical practice, it kind of serves everybody's needs. I guess before you dismiss that idea, I would ask you also to take a look at it if you have any question and just don't dismiss it as a matter of policy, you know, where the other groups involved have found it to be a reasonable alternative. And it was definitely the intent of the ACHD commissioners that that gate would remain closed. The way it was stated in the meeting was that they made it clear to the residents that at some future point in time the potential would always exist that somebody may want to look into the possibility of opening that gate up. They also felt that by the time that that south 20 acres was developed there would be other multiple access points into that 20 acres, so that Duane Drive, as an access point, probably wouldn't be necessary anyway. De Weerd: So, Mr. Stokes, was it your impression that at that point where they would revisit the gate, that it would go to public hearing so you all would have an opportunity? Stokes: Yes. That's the way the commissioners presented it to the residence of Duane Drive and everybody at the meeting. De Weerd: So, that would need further clarity. Stokes: What was read is a misstatement on what actually happened at the meeting. De Weerd: Unfortunately, those are the findings and, you know, those would have to be changed if that is -- by their -- by ACHD but thank you for that clarity. Stokes: Thank you. De Weerd: Further testimony? Is the testimony you provide tonight the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Wallace: Yes, it is. De Weerd: Thank you. Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 55 of 70 Wallace: My name is Patrick Wallace and I'm a resident at 3070 North Duane Drive. I just want to show my support for the folks that have been here from Duane Drive and have spoken so far this evening. I'm a new resident. I'm the new kid on the block on that street. I moved in there last March with the idea of getting away from some of the more urban settings that we had been in and we are finding ourselves becoming more thrust into that spot than we had ever intended or wished. I think that our -- the other folks on the street have mentioned -- talked to you folks a lot about the street and the concern with the number of cars on Duane. My concern is the number of cars that we are a dding to U stick. U stick -- rush h our at U stick i s -- it's I ike d owntown H onolulu, which is where I was born and raised, and it's just not right. It's -- we are getting the cart before the horse. We don't have a way to move the people out of the area in a timely, safe, and efficient manner at this point and that's all I got to say. De Weerd: Thank you. Any questions? Thank you. Is there any further testimony? Is the testimony you provide tonight the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Broadhead: It is. De Weerd: Thank you. Broadhead: I'm Michelle Broadhead and I reside at 2875 Duane Drive. I just wanted to also agree with what they said so far and just so, the clarity is made there on the through traffic. I have four little ones that we walk back and forth to the bus stop every morning and afternoon and not all of them are in school yet. I have several more years of this process to continue and that road is not a safe place for cars going quickly down. That's my big concern is the safety of my family and there are no sidewalks for them to ride bicycles on or any of that stuff as well. I wanted to clarify that at that ACHD meeting the president of the ACHD was all for shutting that road, putting a gate up there and never letting anything through and because that is not the policy. We opted for the -- well, we will put the gate up, but probably no one will bug us about it and it clearly was stated that it would go to Public Hearing and from there have to be done through the process there, so that's -- De Weerd: Thank you. Thanks for that clarification. Any questions? Nary: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: How do your kids get to school now? Are they bused or -- Broadhead: They are bused. Yes. They are because there are no sidewalks down our road or down Ustick, which is how we would have to go is down Ustick Road and there are not sidewalks there. Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 56 of 70 Nary: Do you know that will change, then? Broadhead: It will not -- I'm sure it will not, because part of our subdivision is out onto Ustick and so that won't be developed, but as the new subdivision goes in I'm sure they will put sidewalks. It will be the silly curvy sidewalk that leads nowhere on either end and just to make it look pretty and doesn't do anything, so -- Nary: Thank you De Weerd: Is there any further testimony? Okay. Would the applicant like to come up and respond to testimony? Just restate your name and address. McKay: Becky McKay, Engineering Solutions, 150 East Aikens, Suite B, Eagle. Concerning the issue of density that Mr. Belcher brought up, our gross density for this project is 3.3 dwelling units per acre, with the medium density designation on your Comp Plan being three to eight, I mean we are, obviously, at that lowest spectrum of that allowable density. As you well know in many other meetings, there has been discussion of making sure that these projects have what we call an adequate amount of density and three was always the number that was kicked around as the minimum that we should be targeting for. I don't believe that this is considered a high-density development. I mean this is pretty standard. Mr. Belcher talks about restricting any development on the 20 acres until access to Eagle is developed. That's not necessary when we have access internally within our own development. That would ludicrous. The issue of Duane Drive was settled at the highway district commission. Obviously, the Council has to give their nod to it, but it's been discussed and rehashed and I feel that we have taken care of their concerns. In my meetings with them in the past they said, you know, if you will help us and support us with the Duane Drive issue, because that is our sensitive spot, then, you know, we will basically go away. I believe one individual told me, but that's not the case. Anytime we have urban and rural residential development colliding in along a perimeter of an impact area, we have this discussion of compatibility of traffic and so forth and it is something that we always struggle with. We do the best that we can and in this design we have a collector roadway that we are talking from Ustick all the way out that will connect to Cloverdale and as you well know, those collectors add capacity. They add alternatives to turning movements and try to minimize the impact on these arterials to give people alternative routes, so we are not just dumping all our traffic on Ustick. The issue of wells. We have no impact on their wells. I don't know how we can affect their wells when we are connecting to the city domestic water system. Irrigation. We will be improving the irrigation out there by piping the Milks Lateral, which, therefore, will add capacity to that, because we won't have the evaporation, the percolation that we see, the problem with cleaning of the ditches, typically find it improves an irrigation situation. We have committed to working with the neighbors. We committed to certain types of fencing. I think we have done what we can. The sidewalks along Ustick, they are built in segments. I guess if the Perkins - Brown subdivision would like to get with ACHD, they do have funding, certain accounts where they can petition to have the district utilize sidewalk money to improve the sidewalks going to elementary schools or other public entities like that and so they Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 57 of 70 might want to talk with Mr. Mills. We have got a really good project here that we feel is a benefit and we think this is the type of project that the city envisioned when they were spending all that money to run the South Slough Trunk out there. This is right on that periphery of Boise. Our density is lower than the projects that are to the side of Ustick and to the east side of our project. This is a good project. One issue I did forget that I do need to go on the record. There is a ditch along our south boundary and it just a user's ditch. The residents of Cloverdale Meadows, which Cloverdale Meadows, if you look at this drawing, they are acre lots right here. Our property boundary falls at the center of that ditch and I have talked with their -- their kind of irrigation guru Gary Peva and I believe he sent a letter to Public Works, and they asked us if we would set our fence on the north side of the ditch, because they want access to the ditch. The don't want us to pipe it, because they gravity irrigate out of it and so I wanted to go on the record that that was the only request that I received from Cloverdale Meadows was that we leave that ditch open and put our fence on the north side. The fence would be inset I t hink two -- I ike two f eet from where t he t rue b oundary i s. I t made s ense to m e, because they don't pump out of a ditch, they gravity. Also, this slough here, it's -- we wanted to utilize that as a water amenity. It's a nice amenity. It's been beat down by cows it has a real gradual four -to -one, maybe even five -to -one slope. It has a few scraggly trees along it, but I think it can be a real pretty feature and I have allocated open space for visibility there to the pathway and the slough. I wanted that to go on the record also. Thank you. Do you have any questions? De Weerd: Questions? Nary: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: Mrs. McKay, why an R-8 and not an R-4, since the density is only 3.3? McKay: Because -- I have had this discussion before. The net density, if you look at the net, I think the net is 4.35. We have had discussions in the past with your previous staff on could you -- do they look at both the gross and the net density, can you exceed the base density zone, so with an R-4 my gross -- or my net density would be 4.35, so we just -- De Weerd: It's also lot minimums, too. McKay: Right but under a Planned Development, we are allowed for deviation in minimums. It just made the most sense. I debated on which way to go and I think I even changed the application back and forth a couple of times until I made up my mind. With the planned development overlay, the Development Agreement, I mean everything is set as far as density and lot sizes. The zone is almost immaterial, is that not -- I mean with the Development Agreement if this project were to go away, the zone would be mute. Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 58 of 70 Nary: The other question I guess I have is, as Mr. Belcher stated, you know, he has three, -- he has three lots right behind his house. One of the discussions that we have had on a number of these is that compatibility, that transition between these, and there doesn't appear to be really any transition at all between the existing rural sub and this subdivision, because you would have such fairly heavy density right along your western border there. I mean was there any thought to try to make this a little bit more of a transition between these two? It just seems fairly intense. McKay: Okay. Madam Mayor, Councilman Nary, that's a good question and in circumstances where I have a very extremely low rural residential density on one side of me and I have got a property that has enough width that I can utilize cul-de-sacs to minimize the number of lots I back up to, to also give it less density adjoining them. My problem with this site is, one, this site is not very wide. I have got rural residential lots here rural residential lots here, rural residential lots along my east boundary and rural residential lots along my south boundary. Which ones do I choose to try to transition from? Do you see what I -- my problem is? If -- it's almost impossible to make it work. I can't -- you can't do cul-de-sacs next to everybody. I mean it would be a horrible site plan and you would not get the densities necessary to cover the cost of extending services for a half a mile. What we try to do is I worked with them on the fencing. They wanted a particular type of fencing. I have been -- you know, I have met with these people in neighborhood meetings, I have met with the Altman's multiple times, because this street comes right through here, nipping right through that property there where there is some existing right of way. See, the other problem I have is there is old existing right of way out here. Granger has old existing right of way that goes through the middle of this project. There is existing right of way here. There is right of way on Perkins - Brown side old right of way here. We a re trying to clean some of that up by either vacating or getting the district to relinquish their right to that and, then, building the collector, so -- Nary: And I understand what you're saying, Mrs. McKay. I guess it appears, though, in looking at your site plan is that although it is difficulty and I understand that, but you didn't really -- you didn't really try to create a buffer for any of those particular ones, but the one that's here where this Georgiana first sub or something is what it says on my site plan. Okay? You have, basically, that single family home still there, so all of those homes on this side -- and this is a finished subdivision, I believe. McKay: Yes, sir. Nary: Okay. This one here, there is only two lots of Briarwood Subdivision that butt up against all of these and you have all of these folks here in Perkins -Brown with the bulk of your lots right up against their backyards. The same thing here, you only have two lots, but you have got all of these people here. I mean I guess it seems to me like you solved the problem somewhat on this side, but where all these people are living you didn't really even try to resolve that on their side. I guess I understand why they are concerned, because all you have done is really create a fairly heavy, intense level of Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 59 of 70 development right over their fence, with just providing them a better fence. That doesn't seem like it's really trying too hard. McKay: Well, Madam Mayor, Councilman Nary, in the planning -- this discussion comes up every time we -- when the county approved all these acre lots, five acre lots, two and a half acre lot subdivisions, they have been nothing but a thorn as far as the planners in this valley for many years. The Boise City Council, the other planning directors, have always stated one thing we have to keep in mind, residential is compatible with residential, and to mandate that we have alike lots, it would defeat the whole purpose of good urban planning. When we have a site like this one, I looked at all options, I mean, you know, we don't just slap the street in there. I try to do as much as I can to minimize the opposition as possible by transitioning, if the property is allowable, by providing collectors, open space, working with them on fencing, pedestrian pathways, different things. This is compatible. It is. We find all over this valley where you have small lots backing up to acre lots, five acre lots, two and a half acre lots, but that -- that is acceptable in the planning world. We don't just throw the projects out the door because I don't back two and a half acre lots or acre lots next to them. I guess -- does that answer your question? We struggle with it all the time and I can only do so much. This isn't a big site. It's only 90 acres and it's kind of cut up. Nary: Well -- and I understand your thinking McKay: Okay. Nary: It doesn't answer my question. McKay: Okay. Nary: Because I understand -- McKay: I looked at that. I was very cognizant of that. Nary: We have rejected other projects, because they were not compatible. We have looked at how they transition from one to another. I guess in this one, to me, with a PUD, where you have total freedom in designing your project in a PUD, that you can create transitions along that border, because you have the ability to create heavier intense on this side, which is abutting other city types of densities. To me, I think you -- I mean I'm not a planner and I'm not a designer, but I think you have that ability in a PUD and in this particular situation I don't think you did that. McKay: And I respect your opinion on that and I guess what I'd like to explain to you is I have to align with this street, that's why this block, as you can see, is only six lots deep. I could only come in with a little short block in order to keep that collector in this alignment the way the highway district prefers it. Then, when I come over here I looked at trying to do some cul-de-sacs. I couldn't even make them work. They were too short to even -- if you can't make them a certain length, it's just a waste of land. I looked at Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 60 of 70 various options. The other issue we look at is we keep our density up on the arterials. I have got little bitty lots right across the street from me, so if I put nice, big, half acre lots here, I got little bitty Boise city lots that are about 6,000 to 5,500 square foot right here. Am I compatible with them? Absolutely but I feel I'm compatible with these lots and I have done the best I can with what we had to work with. We don't have to do these big collectors, but it's, obviously, preferable from a transportation perspective, but I mean I can't -- I only have so much I can give. I mean I guess if we mixed the collectors altogether and cut it all up into cul-de-sacs, you know, some developer may be interested, but I can't get three dwelling units per acre doing that. I can't. I can probably get 2.3 or four. You know we try. That's all I can tell you, that, you know, that's all we can do. Thank you. De Weerd: Council, any further questions for staff or applicant? Wardle: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Wardle. Wardle: And I'm not sure who can answer this question for me, but what I'm hearing tonight is that the neighbors are not necessarily as concerned with the development itself as they are with the traffic and the gate. In my mind the information we have -- or that I have, I'm not sure -- I have some issues with the gate and so I guess the couple questions I'd have, what would be the hearing process to reopen that gate, because I'm sure all the residents are concerned with that. Then, secondly, who would own the gate? How is it -- how is that all taken care of? If I could get some direction on where to get those answers. De Weerd: Well, what Becky can't answer, we will ask Mr. Mills to come up. McKay: As far as the gate, Madam Mayor, Councilman Wardle, as far as the gate is concerned, what we do is we work with your Planning, Public Works staff and your Fire Department to come up with an acceptable design that would meet their standards, so it wouldn't be a hindrance in the event that they had to take emergency vehicles through there for whatever reason they would be. Also, that it would facilitate pedestrian and bicycle traffic to go through there. As far as the process for the commission, I will let Mr. Mills answer that. De Weerd: Is the testimony you provide tonight the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Mills: It is. De Weerd: Thank you. Mills: Bruce Mills, Ada County Highway District, Garden City, Idaho. First of all, I want to say I agree with Mrs. McKay about her analysis or her recollection of what took place Meridian City Council Meeting January13, 2004 Page 61 of 70 in our commission meeting and it's unfortunate that -- I looked through these -- our staff report and our findings of fact and they don't reflect accurately what I remember from the meeting. What I remember from the meeting was that -- that the gate -- yes, it could be any organization, it could be the City of Meridian, it could be the developer, and it could be anyone who could request that the gate be removed. However, just receiving the request was not to approve the gate, but it would have to go through a process of approval through ACHD that is my recollection. If our Findings of Facts need to be changed to reflect that, we certainly can do that and I apologize for the fact that they aren't accurate, at least to my recollection. Madam Mayor and Councilman Wardle, your question about the gate ownership, I'm not -- that's something that we don't have a lot of gates around here, so I'm not sure myself where the ownership and maintenance of that would lie. I don't know the answer to that one question. The -- the other question was -- I'm sorry, I forgot it. De Weerd: It was about the -- how that gate would open up and, certainly, with the experience the city has had with gates and when they go away and that sort of thing, we would want that kind of clarity in your findings by your entity and certainly not by our action. Mr. Nichols, do you have something to add? Nichols: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, it looks to me like before you can take any action on this application, you may want to see whether ACHD is willing to revise it's findings -- that the board is willing to revise the findings to better reflect what the decision was at the hearing. But -- and if that's the case, then, it would also be appropriate for this Council to tell Mr. Mills what to take back to ACHD in terms of the kinds of things that you would like to see in those findings -- and not to presuppose approval. With regard to the gate issue things such as a requirement that all of the property owners on Duane Drive receive notice of the hearing. If you take a 300 foot requirement, all of them might not receive notice, and so that all of them on Duane Drive would receive notice of any hearing on an application to remove the gate, that the City of Meridian also receive notice of the hearing and an opportunity to provide comment, maybe even suggesting that there be some showing that it's necessary for public safety and welfare that the gate be removed. Some conditions, if that's what you want to see, that they could, then, put in their findings, so that everybody that looks at the findings would have the understanding that if this development were approved and a gate were erected, under what circumstances it could be taken down. De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Nichols. Council, do you need any further clarity from Mr. Mills while he's up here? Wardle: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Wardle. Wardle: I would like to suggest that the ideas from Mr. Nichols are things that I would personally like to see. I would like the ACHD board to clarify not only that, but also the process of removing that gate and so if we could take that back and give something that Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 62 of 70 would be clear enough to us as a body, that it would also be clear to the residents, that would be appreciated. Mills: Madam Mayor, could I ask a clarification on that, please? When you say the process of removing, you're talking about the physical removal or you're talking about the process -- the public process? Wardle: I'm talking about -- if I'm a citizen, I want to know how -- what actions would need to be taken to remove that gate and allow traffic to flow through my street. That's what I want to know. I want to know how I'm going to be notified if I have an opportunity to speak or, if not, I would -- those are the kind of clarifications that I would like to see. Mills: Thank you. I understand. De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any further discussion? It appears that there are some things unresolved, if you want to continue this, you can certainly do so or take action if some of it isn't pertinent to the direction you're going. Nary: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: I'll just make a comment before someone makes a motion. If it is the desire of Council to continue this matter for that purpose to get some clarity from the Ada County Highway District, I certainly am not going to oppose that, but I guess I also want to make clear, at least even at this juncture, sometimes we do that and it tends to give the false impression that if we can clarify this one piece, then, that's good enough. I'm not -- I'm not right now sold on this project, I'm not really comfortable with the density, the open space, the design and the scape, so if we clarify this one piece, I'm certainly not going to commit that I'm i n f avor of it a nyway. M y personal feeling i s I d on't h ave a reason in my mind to continue it to answer a piece when I have a whole lot of other concerns about it anyway. If the Council wants to do that, I certainly -- I don't care if we gather more information, but I don't want to leave anybody with the impression that that alone is enough. At least right now it's not. De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Nary. Any other comments or a motion? Rountree: We need to close the hearing. De Weerd: If you would like to take action on this application, we could close the Public Hearing. If you wish to continue it for more information, we would not want to close the Public Hearing. Wardle: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Wardle. Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 63 of 70 Wardle: I would move that we continue this Public Hearing for specific comments from ACHD to a date certain and would ask that -- I'm not sure what that date would be. Do I need to ask Mr. Mills? De Weerd: You can suggest a date and he can nod his agreement or you ask him to come and suggest a date. Wardle: Mr. Mills, could you, please, come up and suggest a date for me? Mills: Bruce Mills, Ada County Highway District. I, actually, have a question maybe for Mr. Nichols, because I'm not -- I haven't gone through this process myself. The things they are asking, would it be -- would it have to go back through a Public Hearing process before the commission, in your opinion? Nichols: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I'm grateful I'm not the ACHD lawyer on many occasions. I don't know that a Public Hearing is necessary to clarify parts of the findings that should have been so specified, which is what everybody's testimony was, including the applicant. Whether there are, you know, some of the additional things that I suggested, maybe that's already included in your procedures for hearings, you know, removal of gate requires notice to all the property owners along that street kind of thing, maybe that's already there. If it's not, then, I don't know if that requires a public hearing and it certainly would be the kind of conditions that would -- basically are more stressful, if you will, to the applicant than they are to the neighbors, because they are designed for the protection of the neighbors and I'm not sure if a public hearing is necessary. That was a long way of saying I don't know. Mills: And, Madam Mayor, I wish I knew myself exactly and I probably should and I apologize for that. I would say, to be on the safe side, probably four weeks, just to make sure we are through this process. If it could be done earlier, we could still get that information to your staff. I don't know if you can change your agenda at that point, but that would probably be the date that I would be looking at. That would just assume that we would still have to get it on our council agenda with proper notice, get an answer and be able to get it back so you can put it on your agenda. De Weerd: So, you could always do it for two weeks and if the Commission has not been able to act on it, if that is the necessary step, we can, then, continue it out at a better time certain or a date certain. Nary: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: And I'm not seconding the motion, because I didn't want to continue it, but I would only suggest that rather than having these people come back in two weeks, if it's going to be continued, and come back in two weeks. Maybe we will set it over again, Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 64 of 70 we're probably better off setting it off three or four weeks and, then, we probably would have an answer, more likely, rather than having all these people come back twice. De Weerd: That is an excellent point. Wardle: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Wardle. Wardle: Taking that into consideration, I move that we continue this hearing, Public Hearing, to February 10th, four weeks from today. Bird: Is that for all three Public Hearings? Wardle: All three Public Hearings, yes. De Weerd: For specific issues? Wardle: With the intent of clarification of ACHD's findings concerning the gate on Duane Drive. De Weerd: Do I have second? Rountree: What the heck. I will second that. We will get it going De W eerd: Okay. It's been first -- or it's been moved to continue -- Yes, first and seconded. I is been moved to continue this Public Hearing to February 1 0th to hear back from ACHD on the requirement of the gate -- of the public process for the gate removal, as well as public notification. I s there any further d iscussion? All those in favor say aye. Those opposed say nay. MOTION TIED: TWO AYES, TWO NAYES De Weerd: Thank you. I get to vote tonight. I, too, will vote naye. The motion fails. I would consider a second motion. MOTION CARRIED: THREE NAYES, TWO AYES Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: I would move that we close the Public Hearings on AZ 03-021, PP 03-024, and CUP 03-041, regarding Redfeather Estates Subdivision No. 2 by Packard Estates. Nary: Second. Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 65 of 70 De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to close the Public Hearing on Items 17, 18, and 19. All those in favor say aye. Those opposed naye? Okay. Three ayes. The ayes have it. The Public Hearing is closed. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE NAYE De Weerd: Discussion? Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: I, too, am like Councilman Nary. The gate in the findings of ACHD is a small part of this, in my mind. I think -- and I realize that most of those properties on the drive there, what back up to it is probably pasture. Your houses are probably towards the street, but I think this is just a real density. I see nothing of what's going to happen off of Eagle. We have got some surprises before by doing this, by not knowing what the complete development was going to be. I just think there needs to be a lot of work done on this particular deal before I could support it and it's just not the gate. De Weerd: Is there any further comments or discussion? Mr. Wardle? Wardle: And I would just like to say that while I may or -- well, I can't support the project itself with the f indings that we have without the clarification on the gate. While that doesn't mean that I -- that I disagree with the density I certainly disagree with the findings as is without the clarification that we have, so I'd just like to say that that's the case. De Weerd: Thank you Nary: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: I guess before we make any motions, I would just make one more comment. I think I probably said my piece as to what I think of this project. I do respect Mr. Groves and Mrs. McKay and I do think they have put together a lot of projects that have been very beneficial to the city. I think this one just needs a little more time. I think there is -- I think there are ways to make this project more attractive for all involved, including the city. I think Mr. Bird's right, there is some -- there are some question marks out there that just concern me today in wanting to approve this as it's presented. You know, you get -- you get used to sometimes, sitting up here, that people aren't always happy with the results of decisions that are either brought before us that we agree with or disagree with, but that road and that gate is not a seller to me. We have had issues that lasted for years -- and Mr. Groves knows it -- and it is not something that we would tread into Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 66 of 70 lightly and I think it is a problem. It isn't the only problem, as I already stated, but it is a problem, but, again, the density and the design of this project, the type of open space, the fact that it is a PUD, I think it could be done in a much more transitional way than what is presented. I think it could be done better and I hope to see it again in a little bit different configuration. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: I'd like to state that I'm not -- I didn't -- the gate is a problem, but it wasn't the only problem I see. The road there. I see another -- to be flat out truthful, I see another Wingate Lane. I seriously do. Of all the people, I probably get the most phone calls over that and I don't want to go through it again. I don't think the people that live on that Duane Drive want to go through it. I don't think the developer wants to go through it. Rountree: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Rountree. Rountree: Thank you, Keith, for reminding me of that Bird: It started with you. Rountree: I know. It's one of those things you don't want to remember. I guess -- there is some really good aspects of this and I appreciate the toughness of the site, because not only is it rural residential, it's urban residential. How do you accomplish a balance between those? There is something about it I don't like, but that doesn't offer the applicant anything and I hate to have them sit there based on a subjective statement like that. I'd like to offer you a solution or a potential solution. I don't have one. The real kicker for me is that I'm concerned what's going to happen on Eagle Road, what kind of access, what kind of development. We have folks here tonight that have testified that, well, I guess as long as you don't run traffic through our neighborhood that at some point in time this development might bring us another access to Eagle Road. Well, that might be somewhat of a hollow promise that's been planted in their minds. I'm not sure that there will be another access on Eagle Road that benefit them or this subdivision. Having said that, I'll wait for more learned motions from the resident Councilmen and see where I'll go in terms of supporting them. De Weerd: Thank you. Is there any further discussion? Before, apparently, Councilman Nary makes a motion? Nary: Madam Mayor, I'm going to move on Item 17 to deny AZ 03-021, the request for annexation and zoning of 114.52 acres from RUT to an R-8 PD and C -G zones for the propose Redfeather Estates Subdivision No. 2 by Packard Estates Development, LLC. South of East Ustick Road and east of North Eagle Road, for counsel to prepare Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 67 of 70 Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law, Decision and Order based upon the testimonies presented tonight. I believe, Mr. Nichols, if I'm correct, you usually suggest that we give the applicant some indication as to why and what they could do differently, or am I mixing this up with something else? De Weerd: Mr. Nichols. Nichols: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, there is a state statute that requires when you deny a permit that you inform the applicant what they could do to obtain approval. Technically, annexation and zoning is not a permit, therefore, technically, it does not apply. However, I think it's probably good practice, given the fact this property will develop, if you inform the applicant what it is you would like in an application. It doesn't presuppose that you'll approve it, but it just simply -- it does help an applicant know what they would have to do to obtain approval on -- instead of trying to read your minds with the next one. Nary: Thank you, Mr. Nichols. I guess I would -- part of the motion that the Findings of Facts indicate that the concerns that were -- have been expressed by the Council tonight in regards to the density. The buffering with the existing residential homes along the boundary of t his property, the open s pace -- the usable o pen s pace, t he kind of usable open space that is presented. The amenities that are included as part of the PUD, as well as the access point through different portions of the subdivision, as well as the lack of -- the lack of clarity or conceptual plans regarding the western most portion of the property that abuts Eagle Road. I think all of those concerns have been expressed by the Council tonight on this property, should be reflected in the findings. Bird: Second. De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to deny approval of AZ 03-021 for the stated reasons. Mr. Clerk, will you, please call roll. Roll Call: Bird, aye; Rountree, aye; Wardle, aye; Nary, aye. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES De Weerd: Thank you. Items 18 and 19 are a mute point, but I do believe we do need motions. Nary: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: I'd move the denial of PP 03-024, the request for Preliminary Plat approval of 302 building lots and 28 other lots on 90.29 acres in a proposed R-8 PD zone for the proposed Redfeather Estates Subdivision No. 2 by Packard Estates Development. South of east Ustick Road, east of North Eagle Road, for counsel to prepare Findings of Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 68 of 70 Facts, Conclusions of Law, Decision and Order, based upon the comments by the Council and the fact that the property has not been annexed into the city. Bird: Second. De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to deny PP 03-024. Mr. Clerk, will you, please, call roll. Roll Call: Bird, aye; Rountree, aye; Wardle, aye; Nary, aye. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES De Weerd: Thank you. Item 19. Nary: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: I'd move the denial of CUP 03-041, the request for a Conditional Use Permit for a planned development for a single family residential use, with reduced setbacks, lot sizes, lot frontages, house sizes, and increased block length for proposed Redfeather Estates Subdivision No. 2 by Packard Estates Development. South of East Ustick Road, east of North Eagle Road, and for counsel to prepare Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law, Decision and Order, pursuant to Council's discussion this evening and that the property has not been annexed into the city. Bird: Second. De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to deny the approval of CUP 03-041. Mr. Clerk, will you, please, call roll. Roll Call: Bird, aye; Rountree, aye; Wardle, aye; Nary, aye. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Clerk. Okay. We do have an Item 20, Executive Session Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: I'd move that we go into Executive Session as per Idaho State Code 67- 2345(1)(b). Nary: Second. Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 69 of 70 De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to adjourn into Executive Session per Idaho State Code 67-2345(1)(b). Mr. Clerk, will you call roll. Roll Call: Bird, aye; Rountree, aye; Wardle, aye; Nary, aye. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES (Enter into Executive Session) (Return from Executive Session) De Weerd: I'll entertain a motion to come out of Executive Session. Nary: So moved. Rountree: Second. De Weerd: Okay it's been moved and seconded to come out of Executive Session. Do we do it by roll call? Nary: No. De Weerd: Okay. All those in favor say aye. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES De Weerd: Just to note on the record that no decisions were made. Is there any further business from the Council? Bird: Madam Mayor. De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: We need to get on the agenda next week — not on the Consent or anything like that but on our Regular Agenda a discussion on purchasing a car for the Mayor of Meridian. De Weerd: Do you want that on Pre -Council or Regular? Bird: I believe I would like that on Pre -Council why? Nary: Madam Mayor. I know we don't have a Pre -Council next week because we have a S pecial M elating with the County Commissioners so we would probably put it a s a Department Report discussion. Bird: That's right. Meridian City Council Meeting January 13, 2004 Page 70 of 70 De Weerd: Okay anything further. Did you make a motion? Rountree: He made a motion. I'll second that motion. Bird: Charlie seconded it. De Weerd: Okay it's been moved and seconded to add to next weeks Regular Agenda discussion of a vehicle for the Mayor. All those in favor say aye. All ayes motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES De Weerd: Is there any further business in front of the Council. I would entertain a motion to adjourn. Bird: So moved. Rountree: Second. De Weerd: Okay it's been moved and seconded to adjourn the meeting. All those in favor say aye. All ayes motion carried and it's only 11:30. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES MEETING ADJOURNED AT 11:30 P.M. (TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) APPROVED: Wdl DATE W;irrahl c.m,,c%fy ynesiz �, C1% Cauincr e QF MSR/`'�,,�� WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., ITY CLERK SEAL 'oma 9-W 1CP l7ST 1ST' �yPZO r 1.'