HomeMy WebLinkAboutDecember 4, 2003 P&Z Minutes
Meridian Planning & Zoning
December 4. 2003
Page 48 of 83
(Recess. )
Item 7:
Recommendation: VAG 03-007 Request for a Vacation of three feet of
ACHD right of way on each side of West Pennwood Street for Troutner
Business Park Subdivision No.2 by Mary Ballantyne -- west of South
Meridian Road and south of East Franklin Road:
Item 8:
Public Hearing: PP 03-034 Request for Preliminary Plat approval for a
re-plat of Troutner Park Subdivision Lots 4-5 and 10-15, Block 2; Lots 1-3
and 5-8, Block 3; Block 4; and Lot 3, Block 5 consisting of 6 commercial
building lots and 1 common lot on 17. 26 acres in a C-G zone for
Troutner Business Park No.2 by Mary Ballantyne -- south of West
Franklin Road and west of North Meridian Road:
Borup: Okay. We'd like to reconvene the Planning and Zoning Meeting this evening.
The audience has thinned out a little bit. The next item is -- and this is not a Public
Hearing, it's a recommendation that 0 ur Commission needs to make. V AC 03-007.
This is a request for vacation of three feet of ACHD right of way on each side of west
Penwood Street for the Troutner Business Park Sub. I'd like to start with the staff
report.
Hood: Thank you, Mr. Chair, Members of the Commission. I just want to briefly kind
of run through the vacation process again. As you stated, it's not a Public Hearing, but
we'd like to discuss concurrent with the next application -- Item No.8 on the agenda
tonight is tied in with this vacation approval, so I don't know how on the record -- I mean
the applicant can, obviously, speak to this, but it's not a Public Hearing, even though
there are some issues t hat are just kind 0 f tied in. So, specifically, tot he vacation
application, staff would --
Borup: Would it be helpful if we went ahead and opened up the other hearing at this
point, then?
Hood: That may be helpful. Yes.
Borup: Let's go ahead and do that. Let me open Public Hearing PP 03-034, request
for preliminary plat approval of a replat of Troutner Subdivision. So, we will open this
hearing at this time and realizing that it will be acted upon differently.
Hood: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Running through the subdivision and with that, the
vacation that's proposed concurrently with the subdivision, this is a subdivision on 17.
26 acres. It's currently zoned C-G and the proposal is for six buildable lots and one
common lot. It's -- the site is located approximately 200 feet south of Franklin Road
and 500 feet west of Meridian Road. The plat proposes to resubdivide lots in Troutner
Business Park No.1 showing here on the screen. It was just recorded in 1997. The
applicant is concurrently proposing to vacate right of way -- vacate the right of way --
this is 3rd Avenue and the applicant is proposing to vacate 3rd in this location, as well
Meridian Planning & Zoning
December 4.2003
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as south of Penwood here, and three feet of right of way on either side of Penwood,
both sides, because ACHD's right of way requirement has changed since this was
platted in '97 at 60 feet of right of way it was platted. They can do the same -- basically,
the same street in a 57 -- 54-foot right of way, so that six feet goes away. Staff is not
convinced that vacating 3rd Street south of Penwood -- again, this little stub street here
would be in the public's best interest. Staff believes t hat a stub street tot he south,
whether it be in the location platted as shown here or in another location, one should be
provided from the property to the undeveloped parcel to the south. So, staff is
recommending that this body make a recommendation to the City Council that we
consent and allow ACHD to process that application Now, ACHD is the lead agency,
they will hold a Public Hearing as well and make the ultimate decision on vacation
application. However, in their process, in order to go through that vacation process,
they require that the applicant come to the City of Meridian and get consent from the
City Council to even start that process. So, this is kind of a first step in a long line of
hearings and agendas that this item will be on, but that would be staff's
recommendation that this board forward onto them approval of the submitted
application, with the exception of the 3rd Street Avenue South. That is pretty much the
staff report for both t he vacation and the preliminary plat a nd staff doesn't have any
other concerns, really, with the -- let me show you a picture of the preliminary plat.
There is an aerial that shows a submitted preliminary plat and the main difference, I
guess, is that you can see the lots north of Penwood is now one lot north of Penwood
with that right of way. This was the right of way that's platted that's proposed for
vacation. That's all one lot now. And there are four lots along the south, with no -- that
connection not being there. I believe that is the extent of the staff report and I believe
the applicant would like to speak on that. That's the main thing that I believe the issue
that the applicant has and I will stand for any questions.
Borup: Any questions from the Commission? Would the applicant like to comment?
Zaremba: Actually, I did have a question before we get to the applicant. We have in
our packets two different letters from Nampa-Meridian Irrigation District. One of them
dated 9 October, it lists a whole bunch of easements and stuff that they think need to be
dealt with and, then, another one, which was dated the 4th of November that says
Nampa-Meridian Irrigation District as no easements on either side of West Penwood,
therefore, we have no further comment. 1st here some resolution 0 f those two? 0 f
course, the one that says they don't have any is the more recent one, but the one of
October 9th, they have a. 03 acre lot that would become landlocked with the easement
-- if 3rd Street is vacated and several easements they don't specify, several ea'sements
for a pressure irrigation system within the area. Do we need to be concerned about
that?
Borup: Well, which was the -- which packet was that other letter in? I'm looking at three
different letters and I'm still not finding the same one you referred to.
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Oecember 4. 2003
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Zaremba: Just -- well, the cover it is the transmittal. The second page is the vacation
application. And, then, this is like three pages down. The front of the packet is this one
for the vacation.
Borup: There we go.
Zaremba: They do suggest a solution, a 20-foot permanent easement, combined with
an existing 50-foot easement.
Borup: Okay. We will have the applicant speak to that. That would be good.
Ballantyne: Mike Ballantyne. Business address 250 South 5th, Boise, 83702.
Chairman Borup and Commissioners, just to speak -- I'll let Ryan Addleman speak to
the item related to Nampa-Meridian, but just to give you some background real quick on
the application. In 1997 -- actually, beginning in 1996, but finishing in 1997, this
property, nearly 40 acres, was platted as a business park with approximately one-acre
lots. Phase two, we'll call it, the property to the -- that we are proposing to replat, that
was under a non-development agreement with the City of Meridian. There was a
development agreement on that west half of the property, non-development on the east
half. That non-development agreement has expired and so in order to be able to do any
land use action, we have to resubmit the plat -- resubmit a plat. In doing that, we have
determined we have a potential user for the property and so we have determined to
reconfigure the property, including a vacation of 3rd Street. So, that's the reason we
are before you today. We have no issues with the staff report, with the exception of the
site-specific requirement number one and that is the extension of Southwest 3rd to the
south. We understand that connectivity is a priority for the city. It's a priority for us as
well. The reason we are moving ahead with phase two is that it's important for us to
have a connection out to Meridian Road. However, the property owner to the south, as
well as the property owner to the north, who is here today, have repeatedly requested
that we not put those streets in -- or not put Southwest 3rd Avenue in, because primarily
the property owner to the south, it will dissect his property and potentially cause
significant damage to him financially. So, as we don't -- we don't need it, we will have a
connection out to Meridian Road. We have Southwest 5th stubbed down to the
Corporate Drive extension. We have, you know, proposed vacating that, so Ryan
Addleman has copies of letters from the property owners to the north and to the south to
enter into the record requesting that that be vacated. He also has a letter -- the letter
that you're referencing about the easement and that just relates to the drain there, so I'll
let him speak to that, if that's all right. I can answer any questions first.
Borup: Any questions from the Commission? Is the -- I'm assuming the property owner
to the south is going to testify?
Ballantyne: He is not here. He did provide a letter to be entered into the record that
requested that that road not be extended.
Borup: And what are his intentions with the property, then?
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December 4. 2003
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Ballantyne: Chairman Borup, your guess is as good as mine. He just -- he plans to
develop the property at some point and certainly putting a road through the middle of it
affects his ability to develop it in the future
Borup: And he has access from -- is that a street to the south of his property?
Ballantyne: Chairman Borup, his property runs from here all the way -- runs from
Meridian Road all the way to the line that -- what I'm showing here and includes a
potential future extension of 3rd. So, he has one single parcel here -- well, one property
composed of, I think, three parcels. He's already had to work with the highway district
to dedicate Corporate Drive in order for them to be able to put their detention or
retention ponds here and doesn't want to have to be required to split the property to
connect here. Certainly 5th Street, as I mentioned before, will connect here to the
future Corporate Drive extension.
Borup: Okay. So, he's feeling he's got adequate access on Corporate Drive?
Ballantyne: Yeah. He feels certainly with his frontage on Meridian Road and on
Corporate Drive he's got plenty of access. Or future Corporate Drive. And he will be
required to dedicate the balance of the Corporate Drive right of way at the time he
develops that property, so that the highway district can extend Corporate Drive.
Borup: And this access point will n this isn't in existence right now, is it?
Ballantyne: Chairman Borup, it is in existence. There is currently a temporary
turnaround here and this is a different property owner, who owns this property, and he
will be required to connect to 5th at thetime he develops his property.
Borup: Does he own both sides of -- this property owner?
Ballantyne: This property here is owned by Troutner Business Park Development
Corporation; He owns this property. And this property is owned by the Ada County
Highway District, which I believe was an illegal lot split, but we don't want to discuss the
illegal lot split. And that is not in the scope of this application
Borup: Right. No. No.
Ballantyne: Nor was it ever part of this property here as far as the application.
Zaremba: I remember back in 1824--
Borup: Okay.
Ballantyne: It has it's own set of issues.
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December 4. 2003
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Borup: Okay. Thank you.
Addleman: Ryan Addleman, Keller and Associates. Business address, 131 Southwest
5th, Meridian. I have got the four letters from the adjacent property owners I'd like to
enter into evidence. And, Commissioner, in regards to the October 9th letter, is that the
one you're in question about? From Nampa-Meridian?
Borup: Yes.
Zaremba: I think that was the one, yes.
Addleman: That was something that we worked out with the Nampa-Meridian Irrigation
District as part of the original plat -- Troutner Business Park's plat. We have dedicated
a 50-foot easement to Nampa-Meridian Irrigation District. However, as part of relieving
the other lots that were in part of the big lot, we had to provide access to a pump station
that's located right here. There is a very small lot there where the pressure irrigation
system is for the subdivision. And so, therefore, what we have done is put a 20-foot
permanent easement. This wouldn't necessarily be for N ampa-Meridian, it would be
some day in the future that if anybody else took over the irrigation system, that they
would have that access easement to that lot.
Zaremba: So, as far as you know they are satisfied.
Addleman: They are satisfied, yes.
Zaremba: All right.
Addleman: Their biggest thing is they didn't want to be a signatory on the plat, so that's
the way around it.
Borup: Anyone else to testify on this? Come forward.
Olson: Chairman Borup, Commissioners, my name is Reed Olson. I currently own --
or am a representative of the owners of one of the lots, one of the buildings in the
Troutner Business Park. And could we put back up there the plat that shows the parcel
as it's presently configured? The one just after that. No. I think you had it, but I didn't -
- that will work. Okay. The parcel that I'm referring to is that one right there. And the
parcel that I'm concerned a bout in this proposed realignment is that 0 ne right there.
And the reason that I'm concerned, the Troutner Business Park was established some
five years ago, as was mentioned by Mr. Ballantyne and I represent the owners of the
parcel that's located on the west side of Southwest 5th near the entrance of the
business park. My understanding of the proposal is to begin the process to allow a
mobile home park to be established in this parcel and I'd like to register my opposition to
that use for this parcel. The covenants for the Troutner Business Park states that it's
the intent of the park to be one of the premier business locations not just in the state of -
- or not just in Meridian, but in the state of Idaho. And five years ago we built a building
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December 4. 2003
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that fulfills that vision. At this point we will have an upcoming annual association
meeting and in that I will be requesting that the developer not use the lots that are
currently along Southwest 5th, which would be that one that I pointed out second to be
a part of this realignment, thus, maintaining the integrity of the business park concept
along the street of Southwest 5th, hoping that that would segregate the parcel that's
possibly become a mobile home park from the business park. And what I'd like to ask
the Commission to do is defer a decision on this matter until after the association
meeting takes place, which I believe is next week. Hopefully, in that meeting we can
discuss things with the developer and come to some kind of an agreement that will be
satisfactory for all sides and we don't need to bother the Commission about my
concerns. I can take any questions if you have any.
Borup: Questions from any of the Commissioners? Okay. I had two. It appears to me
that the other two plats we have that -- that line actually comes right down this direction
and over.
Olson: Yes.
Borup: So -- is that correct, Mr. Ballantyne, that these lots right along here are not part
of the application? Okay.
Olson: That's correct. It's that one that's kitty-corner from my lot.
Borup: Right. So, this lot right here is the only one that you've got question about.
Olson: Well, I mean --
Borup: Well, the whole thing, but --
Olson: The whole thing.
Borup: But especially that one.
Olson: Because it's kitty-corner to my -- to my parcel.
Borup: So, if this, indeed, did become a mobile home park, they are probably going to
have access onto --
Olson: Yes, sir.
Borup: Okay.
Ballantyne.
Maybe we can get some -- maybe we can get some comment from Mr.
Olson: Thank you.
Borup: Do we have anyone else?
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December 4.2003
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Mallea: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, my name is Ken Mallea. Like Mr.
Olson, I have a lot in the project and we have put a building on it. The Troutner
Business Park, Members of the Commission, is a subdivision. It was approved by the
City of Meridian as a subdivision in 1997. The common scheme and design of the
subdivision was for office buildings through the project. Now, not all of the lots have
been sold. Mr. Ballantyne and his family still retain those and they retain these lots that
are within this application for a replat. But the application represents to you and it says
that the CC&Rs, the covenant, conditions, and restrictions, are in place for Troutner
Business Park. That is true. The application also represents to you that all lots within
the replat will be subject to these conditions. Well, Members of the Commission, the
covenants and conditions -- which I know the city does not get involved in. You are not
here to listen to me talk about what covenants mean or provide. I understand that.
But when you are told in this application that the replat will be subject to them, I think it's
permissible to talk to them. Well, what you have not been told, no one has, is what the
anticipated use of the replatted property will be. Well, it will certainly not be what the
original subdivision plan called for, which are commercial developments in the project.
Now, the information that we have -- and the owner has never spoken to us about it, but
the information that we have is that the plan is for an RV park within the replat. Well, I
cannot believe that the Commission would approve a replat without being told what the
purpose is or the intended use, when the common scheme that the Commission
approved six years ago -- the city approved, called for commercial development, with
access -- dedicated right of way on 3rd -- for all of that to be abandoned, to unilaterally
and without the consent of others who have purchased in the project. I don't believe
that this Commission or the City will do that and I urge you to deny it. Thank you, Mr.
Chairman.
Borup: Questions? Do you have concern that the CC&R's are going to be modified or
changed from --
Mallea: If the applicant intended that, I'm guessing that that would be part of their
representation to this Commission. That's not mentioned. All that is mentioned is that
the replat would be subject to the covenants. Well, the covenants prohibit any trailer,
any temporary structure, and have very rigorous design standards for any development
within this subdivision.
Borup: That's what I was wondering. So, if that's the case, then --
Mallea: Mr. Chairman, there are rigorous architectural and design standards.
Borup: Okay. Then, where is the concern if you have rigorous requirements? Are you
concerned they will ignore them, you mean?
Mallea: Well, what you are being told is that they are subject to them. Obviously, they
must intend the complete abandonment of whatever those covenants provide.
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December 4. 2003
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Borup: Okay. That's your concern, that they will be ignored?
Mallea: Abandoned and modified. Mr. Chairman, if I could draw a parallel to the
previous application that you heard for three hours. We have half of that project that
was before you, comes back to you in six years, and this fine lady that represented the
developer and this gentleman that spoke to you, they come to the conclusion that the
size of lot was no longer marketable.
Borup: Well, no, I see where you're going, but I don't think that a comparison to any
residential and commercial really apply, but -- but I can see the point you're making.
But would that be any different if an owner went in and bought whatever -- six original
lots or whatever they were and, then, decided to -- and, then, came in and went through
the same process on his own?
Mallea: Well, Mr. Chairman, certainly, as your staff has mentioned, the proposed
abandonment of 3rd Avenue is a serious issue. So -- I mean that's one issue, but--
Borup: Well -- and also -- and that's something this Commission doesn't do.
Mallea: And I understand that.
Borup: I mean ACHD would have to do that.
Mallea: I understand. But I mean it causes me pause and I hope it will this Commission,
for a 40 acre project to have a common scheme and approved and now they have half
of it pulled out of that scheme when others, like myself and Mr. Olson and others who
are not here, in reliance on it, purchased and built and now all of that is abandoned. It's
a discretionary call for this Commission.
Borup: But you're assuming it's going to be abandoned.
Mallea: No. Oh. I have lots of confidence in that.
Borup: Now, would you have a concern if a single large office building went in there on
that parcel?
Mallea: None whatsoever. That would be consistent, I believe, with what the city
approved, what the city's approved and planned development for this area was.
Borup: Okay.
Mallea: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Borup: Thank you.
Zaremba: I would probably ask staff for a clarification. I'm looking through Chapter 8,
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December 4. 2003
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the zone schedule of use control. We are talking about a C-G zone. I do not find in
any zone an RV park as being allowable. Under residential I see mobile home parks
and subdivisions, which are not allowable in a CoG zone. Am I missing something? Can
an RV park go in a C-G zone?
Powell: Chairman Borup, Members of the Commission, you're absolutely right. And,
actually, the applicant did come to us and they haven't been secretive about what they
want to do there. But before I tell you all the conversations we had, you should -- and
I'm sure you realize that the use on that property is not in question tonight, it's just a
matter of the preliminary plat and the vacation. So, how they want to use that property
would come back to you at another time. It won't be a principal permitted use. So, I
will tell you they are looking at an RV park. An RV park is not similar to a mobile home
park, it's more like a hotel on wheels, so --
Borup: Like the one up on Overland and Locust Grove.
Powell: I'm not familiar with that one, but there is nods around the --
Borup: That's the only one I know about in town, but --
Powell: And it's -- so what we have told them is that they need to come to us, because
it's not a listed use. What the zoning ordinance says is that you need to -- they need to
come to us as a Conditional Use Permit f or anything that's not a listed use. I f we
haven't considered it, it's not considered prohibited, it's just -- you have to come through
the conditional use process. We can encourage them -- normally we encourage people
to come in altogether as a bundle. In this case we encouraged them to get moving on
their right of way vacation, because it is such a painfully laborious process, I think would
be fair to say. It really does take a long time to get through that vacation process and
we did encourage them to start that right of way -- right away. I think I'm getting a cold.
Anyway. So, they have not tried to deceive us or anything on this property. They came
in and said we want to do an RV park, you know, how do we do it. So, they are just
following the -- kind of the sequencing that we gave them, but it is not a listed use, so it
would have to be a conditional use, it would come back before you in that manner.
Borup: Could there be some -- I'd like some clarification on the non-build agreement on
this parcel that was made reference to. I wasn't sure that that --
Hood: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, I believe what -- since the Penwood
right of way and the 3rd Street right of way of have not been constructed yet, the final
plat has been recorded, ACHD put a non-build on this, because the roads aren't in.
Borup: Oh. Okay.
Hood: So, until the roads get put in, they can't build anything.
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Borup: Okay. That's what that was referring to.
Ballantyne.
Do we have anyone else? Mr.
Ballantyne: Chairman Borup, M embers of the Commission, to give you a little b it of
background, the nondevelopment agreement, when -- ordinarily and customarily now as
you enter into a plat, you enter into a nondevelopment agreement with -- or a
development agreement with the city. A nondevelopment agreement is just the
opposite, it says that until such time that you put in the infrastructure improvements, you
cannot hypothecate, sell, or do anything with the lots and so we, basically, signed that
with the city, you know, can't do anything -- and the other agencies. But our intention is
not to build a mobile home park here. Our -- we have been approached by a group that
does want to purchase part of the property to develop an RV park and whether that
happens or not, it's our intention to replat the property. In the six years that we have
owned the property we have sold eight lots, about eight acres, and -- or developed
about eight acres and two of them have been ourselves, so there is not a great deal of
demand for these large lots. It's our intent -- we really want to get this Penwood
through and based on the current configuration, we would have to build 3rd as well, and
so I have already got about 15 lots here that I can't sell, so I really don't want to build
about 15 more lots that I can't sell. So, we have been approached by this party, we are
under contract. This portion of the property is not included in that contract. If you go
back to the approved plat, you will see that this -- any of them, you will see that this line
takes a jaunt and the reason was these lots were getting so thin here at the back when
they were platted so a s to not be usable. The problem is that t his lot in its current
configuration is very unwieldy. We have done a number of layouts of buildings and
because of this narrowness here, you can't circulate the cars the way you want. So,
what -- our intent there was just to make this property line up here, move this line this
way, we would still have over an acre buildable lot here and this would square up this
property. It just made sense. There will be no access here. There is no --
Borup: And that was what I was going to ask.
Ballantyne: There is no dedication of right of way. This would not be part of it.
Certainly, you know, what's under your purview today is whether or not we can -- your
recommendation on vacation and whether or not we can replat.
Borup: So, why doesn't your replat design show this line going straight through, then?
Ballantyne: Why does it?
Borup: Why does it not?
Ballantyne: It does. It does, sir.
Borup: Oh.
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Ballantyne: The new one -- this is the old plat. If you go to the new one you will see
what we have done is straighten that line to square this off.
Borup: Okay. Okay. That does go through there, but this lot was just included in with
the -- because that affected that lot. I understand.
Ballantyne: Basically, our situation with the members of the association, the property
owners in the park, is it did not make sense for us to approach them about the potential
use of this property until we knew whether the city and the highway district would
support a vacation of the road. If they wouldn't to vacate the road, we couldn't sell it,
redevelopment it, and so it would be a moot point. We scheduled the meeting for next
week, so -- after this hearing, so we would know what the opinion of the city was, so
that we could, then, go to the property owners and say the city is allowing us to do this,
this is what we'd like to do, this is the use, show them the design, that type of thing.
So, there was no intent to deceive or -- I mean as your director -- Planning and Zoning
director will say, we have been up front and trying to make sure everybody understood
that. In terms of the CC&Rs, I know it's not part of your purview, but certainly this
property would not be consistent with the C C&R's here, thisp roperty would, and we
would need to, as an association, determine how to handle that. Most likely it would be
to amend the CC&R's to have a separate use here. That's if we go with this RV park
If we don't and we leave it as one single use, we will probably just leave the CC&R's in
place and sell this one single parcel. Does that answer --
Borup: Yes. That answers my--
Ballantyne: -- the concerns that were raised?
Borup: Anything else?
Rohm: I think it's safe to say that the vacation of the right of way doesn't necessarily
support the development of any new project. It would still have to come before the
board as a Conditional Use Permit and so by vacating doesn't say, yes, you can do
what is being proposed at the next stage.
Ballantyne: Certainly. Absolutely. We recognize that there is many steps we have to
go through and before we can get anything done. If It was an RV park, for instance, we
would have to come back to this body and to the -- actually, do we come to body or go
directly to City Council on a CUP? Go to this body first?
Borup: Yes.
Ballantyne: And, then, to City Council to get anything that was done there approved.
So, this is just to make sure we can actually vacate the street and re-Iayout the lots.
Borup: And I don't know that I'm still comfortable with the stub street to the south. I
mean, you know, I realize that that property owner may not be interested, but how do
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we know that -- how do we know that now? I mean are we planning properly if we
ignore that?
Ballantyne: Certainly, Mr. Chairman, that would be, you know, up to ACHD with your
recommendation, but I would point out that this stub here this stub mere were certainly
not extended because of the desire not to have connectivity and there is a possibility
that this --
Borup: And that's residential over here.
Ballantyne: Yeah. Exactly. But it's possible that the use would be such, even if it was
closer, that you wouldn't want the road to go through. You might, certainly, and if you
don't and we stub it in, you and I could drag race, I guess, on that little segment or -- I
don't know what I would do with that little piece of ground. Come back later for
vacation, I guess.
Borup: Well, yeah. Yeah. But Penwood is going through right now to 5th and so there
would be access?
Ballantyne: Correct. 5th and then through the Commercial Tire Subdivision we will
extend Penwood to Meridian Road. So, this will connect to Meridian and this will
connect, if and what Corporate ever goes through, sooner, hopefully, rather than later.
Borup: Okay.
Zaremba: Would you index the pictures back to one that shows more of the -- I think
there was one that went all the way to Meridian.
Borup: There.
Zaremba: Yeah. That one.
Borup: This is going through to Meridian.
Ballantyne: Penwood will connect there to Meridian. We currently have an easement
through the property. There was a plat, because this was an illegal lot split -- I don't
know if you have ever experienced that before, but that Commercial Tire had to replat
this into a single lot. As part of their approvals they had to extend the road to our east
property line. As part of this, I guess they had a little -- they got the plat all done and
didn't record it; is that right? So, they are coming back, I guess, in January to fix that
and as part of our Penwood extension we will extend that road through.
Borup: Well, I'd like, Mr. Hood, maybe to comment on -- I'm a strong advocate of
continuity between areas, but I'm wondering, since this is a single owner, he has good
access from here, and there is still access from this road down to Corporate, that it's not
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December 4.2003
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really greatly affecting the traffic through that area. I'm wondering how strong staff feels
about that.
Hood: Mr. Chair, Members of the Commission, let me just kind of walk you through my
thought process when evaluating this application. I guess kind of similar to what the
applicant just pointed 0 ut, if we vacate this right of way now, it's recommended that
ACHD vacate this right of way, the opportunity is lost for that road to go through. If the
stub is provided, it could be I'd if that property owner further to the south doesn't want
to build the road all the way through to Corporate Drive. They do have a lot of frontage
on Corporate. The other reason that I think that the stub street makes sense, without
knowing what's going to develop on that parcel, is it allows future tenants in this subject
development another access point to what will in the future be a signal at Meridian and
Corporate, rather than having to go out Penwood, which won't be signalized, or back
around and out to get to -- it just allows the interconnectivity and allows another way to
get to a signal -- future signalized intersection.
Borup: Well -- and that was the point that I thought made a lot of sense, but they do n I
mean it's a few hundred feet down, but they have access by coming down to here and
over to Corporate, which is not a great hardship.
Hood: Mr. Chair, that isn't a done deal either. Fifth Street isn't extended all the way to
Corporate. So, if that doesn't develop for another 40 years, that -- you know, that
connection is not there today, so depending on the timing of the property directly to the
south or the other extension of 5th Street to Corporate, depending on which one goes
first -- I imagine they won't go together, so one of them is going to be constructed first
and maybe one of them is not connected at all, but if we lose the 3rd Street, then, we
rely on 5th Street to go through.
Borup: Right. One or the other needs to go through. I think you would agree with that.
Ballantyne: I would agree. So, I need to build another, just in case the other one that I
already built doesn't connect through?
Borup: Well, you built this one down to what point? To here?
Ballantyne: To our property line. No. To here. So, it's got about 50 feet to go.
Borup: Oh, you're clear down to here.
Ballantyne: Fifty to seventy-five feet. You know, I understand Mr. Hood's logic. I mean
we want connectivity. We want people to be able to get in and out of the park, but I
have already built a connection to the future Corporate Drive extension that -- you know,
and I have spent money for it to connect and so I have got to build another one just in
case the one that I built, that you told me I had to build, because Corporate is going to
be connected, just in case that one doesn't connect I got to build another one. Do you
understand my logic? Like somebody has got to build Corporate Drive. I could build
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December 4.2003
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three or four more there and if nobody builds Corporate Drive, I mean it's just h so, we
would very much like to built Corporate Drive. Our intent -- and these gentlemen, I
think, will concur, is we have been told two or three times that Corporate Drive is a
matter of months from being, you know, moved ahead and the whole reason we are
trying to get Pen wood through is we are doubtful that Corporate Drive will happen within
the next five years and we want these folks to be able to get out to Meridian Road
without having to go back to Franklin.
Borup: So, do you know what the intentions of this property owner are at all?
Ballantyne: This property owner brought application to the city a few years ago for a
preliminary and final plat. The preliminary plat was approved with some conditions,
which weren't acceptable to the applicant. They were going to work to amend the
conditions. The applicant had a heart attack and put the property up for sale. The
property is currently for sale. The preliminary plat I think just expired a few months
ago, so they have to go through the process all again. Prior to that, this property here
was illegally split off and deeded to the highway district as part of the Meridian Road
improvement. The highway district ran a drain line here for an infiltration bed in order
to meet the Clean Water Act.
Borup: Yeah. I remember that. Okay.
Ballantyne: And this is classified, I think, as a collector; is that right?
Hood: Mr. Chair, that has, actually, changed and that's something that has changed
since -- I think on the 20-25 map it is no longer designated as a collector roadway, it's
only a local commercial street -- a future local, I think, commercial street and I think that
just recently changed.
Ballantyne: Was that because of the redesign there, I think? Originally, the intent of the
highway district was to eliminate any access point here on Penwood, to cul-de-sac
Penwood and bring all traffic from this area up through Corporate, as well as traffic out
of the Mallard Landing Subdivision, I believe, as well as Troutner Business Park through
Corporate. They amended that and replanned this and brought this road -- or intended
to bring this road here. So, that's probably why they downgraded it from a collector to a
local--
Hood: Local commercial. Yeah.
Ballantyne: -- local commercial.
Borup: Okay. Thank you. Questions from any of the Commissioners. Thank you.
Commissioners, discussion? And probably, specifically, on Item No.7, the vacation.
Zaremba: Well, the vacation along Penwood is easy. I don't think there is any problem
with that. Penwood? Is that the --
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Borup: Yes. And how about north of Penwood?
Zaremba: Well, Southwest 3rd Avenue -- I don't think that would ever connect to
Franklin. The only option would be to curve it and come -- and connect it back over to
5th. That's probably not likely to happen either. So, the only person this really makes
any difference to is the current applicant, who is asking for it to be vacated. So, going
north I don't have too much problem vacating that. Going south, it's kind of a toss up,
but Corporate is going to have to go through sometime and if they have already put in a
drainage line, that alignment probably isn't going to change, it's going to go right where
it's indicated. And I think the south -- t he property 0 wner to the south has enough
access and, again, within his own property he doesn't mind giving up that access, he
has enough frontage on Penwood. I probably could go along with supporting everything
the applicant is asking for on the vacation. I agree with staff's concern, but I also agree
that Corporate, eventually, is going to have to be there and I think that will solve the
concern. Personal opinion.
Borup: Well, I think it looks like connectivity concern is answered.
here is a lot shorter also.
The connection
Rohm: As long as that goes in.
Borup: Well, it's going to go in if that property ever develops.
Zaremba: Eventually, it will have to. It's just -- it's a matter of timing, I suppose. And I
can't see that it's going to go anywhere else, because they already have their drain or
pipe or whatever -- they already have that right of way established. It's not going to
suddenly make S curves and go off somewhere else.
Borup: Okay.
Zaremba: So, let's see, we still have the Public Hearing open on the other part. Do we
need to close that first?
Borup: Yeah, but -- no, let's go ahead and -- let's go ahead on No.7 and, then, we will
close -- or I guess you could close it.
Zaremba: Let's do that. Mr. Chairman, I move we close the Public Hearing on Item
No.8, PP 03-034.
Mathes: Second.
Borup: Motion and second to close the Public Hearing. All in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
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Borup: Another thing that has already been stated -- and I just realized, you know, we
are making a recommendation that's going to go to City Council and it's really going to
go to ACHD, who is the one that needs to make the decision, so maybe we are
spending a lot of time on something that we don't have a lot of way on.
Zaremba: Well, on the vacation part I'm comfortable with offering our support to the
applicant. So, I would move that we forward to the City Council and thereafter to ACHD
Item 7 on our agenda, recommending approval of VAC 03-007, request for a vacation of
three feet of ACHD right of way on each side of West Penwood Street for Troutner
Business Park Subdivision No.2 by Mary Ballantyne, west of South Meridian Road and
south of East Franklin Road, with the knowledge that the application also requests
vacation of their portion of southwest 3rd Street and to include all staff comments, with
the exception of -- this is from staff's memo for the hearing date of December 4th,
received by the clerk December 1, 2003, with the exception of on page two, paragraph
three, under special considerations -- that's not, actually, a condition, it's just a
discussion. In that case, no changes.
Borup: It is part of their recommendation, though.
Zaremba: Okay. Then, I would say that --
Mathes: Are you doing the vacation?
Zaremba: This is the vacation. This is a special consideration under vacation. Okay.
So, continue with the motion. On page two under special considerations, paragraph
three, I would delete.
Borup: You'd delete the whole paragraph?
Zaremba: I think so. It only talks about --
Borup: Yeah. Yeah. That's -- okay.
Zaremba: Well -- okay. Since this is only a recommendation, do we want to say we
recommend deletion of that paragraph?
Borup: I don't know if it matters either way. If we are -- if you recommend approval of
all staff comments -- did you already say that? I think you did.
Zaremba: I did and --
Borup: Then, you wouldn't have to delete that one.
Zaremba: And if staff objects, they can mention that it was a condition. Before City
Council staff can mention it again.
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Borup: Yes.
Zaremba: Okay. SO--
Borup: I'm sure they probably will.
Zaremba: -- let me restate the motion from the beginning. I recommend that we
forward to the City Council and thereafter to ACHD a recommendation of approval of
VAC 03-007, request for a vacation of three feet of ACHD right of way on each side of
West Penwood Street for Troutner Business Park Subdivision No.2 by Mary
Ballantyne, west of South Meridian Road and south of East Franklin Road and noting
that that also includes a request to vacate the applicant's portion of Southwest 3rd
Street, to include --
Borup: I think it's just South 3rd Avenue.
Zaremba: South 3rd -- the south portion of West 3rd Avenue.
Borup: No. It's just south --
Zaremba: Well, the street is West 3rd Avenue and this is the south portion of West
Third Avenue. Southwest 3rd Avenue.
Borup: Okay.
Zaremba: Okay. To include all staff comments of their memo for the hearing date
December 4th, 2003, received by the clerk 2001 -- 2003, with the exception of page
two, paragraph three under special considerations is deleted. End of motion.
Rohm: Second.
Borup: Motion and second. All in favor? Any opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Borup: Okay. Item 8, which was the Public Hearing.
Zaremba: We did close the Public Hearing.
Borup: Yes.
Zaremba: I guess for discussion I would say on the face of it I have no problem with the
replatting, with the knowledge that anything in the C-G zone that is not listed in the C-G
zone, would have to come back to us for a CUP anyhow, the issue of the use really isn't
before us, but if it's not something that's clearly a C-G, we would get to hear it again.
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December 4. 2003
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Borup: That also gives the opportunity for the association to get together, as they
discussed.
Zaremba: And either agree or--
Borup: And we have also been told that that one lot on 5th has not been included.
Zaremba: And make their point that they don't care to have the CC&R's changed,
whatever they have.
Rohm: Can we make it a condition that anything that's brought -- proposed be required
to go the CUP route?
Borup: It's a little late, but -- well, maybe since we are -- no, we are not changing --
there is not a zoning change before us, it's just a replatting.
Rohm: Well, with it being a replat and changing the lots to accommodate other uses,
then, what was proposed in the --
Borup: Well, the lot's not necessarily to accommodate other uses. At this point it's C-
G uses.
Zaremba: As long as it's a C-G use.
Borup: And a larger lot probably accommodates it better. Did you have a --
Powell: Chairman Borup, Members of the Commission, to my knowledge this was not a
planned development to begin with, so there is no development agreement, so there is
really no mechanism for you to require a Conditional Use Permit and just to clarify the
record -- and this is complete nitpicking and, I'm sorry, it's not that any use not listed in
the C-G would have to come to you, because some of those would be prohibited. It's
that a use not otherwise listed in the schedule of uses would have to come to you as a
CU or if it's listed as a CU in the C-G zone.
Zaremba: Thank you. I think I actually understood it that way, but I misstated it when I
was making my comments. That being said, Mr. Chairman, I move we forward to the
City Council recommending approval of Item 8 on our agenda, PP 03-024, request for a
preliminary plat approval for a replat of Troutner Park Subdivision, Lots 4, 5, and 10 and
15, Block 2; Lots 1 to 3 and 5 to 8, Block 3; Block 4 and Lot 3, Block 5, consisting of six
commercial building lots and one common lot on 17. Twenty-six acres in a C-G zone
for Troutner Business Park No.2 by Mary Ballantyne, south of West Franklin Road and
west of North Meridian Road, to include all staff comments of their memo regarding PP
03-034, for the hearing date of December 4th, 2003, received by the Clerk, December
1 st,. 2003.
Rohm: Second.
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Borup: Motion and second. All in favor? Any opposed?
MOTION CARRIED ALL AYES.
Item 9:
Public Hearing: AZ 03-030 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 2. 8
acres from R-6 to L-O and C-G zones for Southern Springs Subdivision
No.2 by The Land Group, Inc. -- south of East Overland Road and east of
South Meridian Road:
Item 10:
Public Hearing: PP 03-036 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 5
commercial building lots on 2.8 acres in proposed L-O and C-G zones for
Southern Springs Subdivision No.2 by The Land Group, Inc. -- south
of East Overland Road and east of South Meridian Road:
Borup: Thank you. The next item is Items No.9 and 10, Public Hearing AZ 03-030,
request for annexation and zoning of 2.8 acres from R-6 to L-O and C-G zones for
Southern Springs Subdivision No.2 by the Land Group. Accompanying that is PP 03-
036, request for preliminary plat approval of five commercial building lots on the same 2.
8 acres. I'd like to open both Public Hearings at this time and start with the staff report.
Hawkins-Clark: Thank you, Chairman Borup, Members of the Commission. This -- Item
No.9 is the annexation and zoning request. The acreage is identical to the next item.
Annexation and zoning and plat are the same. Southern Springs No.1, the City Council
approved just a couple of months ago. That's zoned C-G to the west. The Ten Mile
Creek runs here along this east boundary and if you recall, a pathway, a public multi-
use pathway, was quite a big part of the discussion on this project, running along the
creek and so that does not affect this parcel. That was all contained on Southern
Springs No.1. The project is surrounded with Country Terrace Subdivision and
Running Brook Estates. There are six or seven lots that, actually, touch the parcel.
Gold's Gym, as you know, is located across the street. Here off of 1-84 ACHD has a
new storm water lot. This is an existing house in Ada County immediately across the
street on several acres that has not been annexed and, of course, Meridian Ford is in
the area. So, they have requested a rezone to two different zones. They are
proposing to split zone the property. This is their boundaries on their legal description
for their rezone, essentially, L -0 adjacent toe xisting residential and C -G adjacent to
Southern Springs No.1, which is also C-G. Staff is recommending approval of the
annexation. As I outlined in the staff report, it is designated for medium residential on
the future land use map, so we do feel that even though the map doesn't explicitly
support the proposed zone change, there are text policies that support a movement of
the commercial, nonresidential uses, into this area. Probably two of the main ones are
the fact that they do have the existing commercial uses immediately adjacent and it is
the same developer, Mitchner Investments, and the Overland Road really is not
conducive to single family detached housing, particularly adjacent to the future retail
here in Silver Springs One, so, we -- or Southern Springs One. I'm sorry. So, we feel
like there are adequate policies in the Comp Plan to support it. As I pointed out, there