HomeMy WebLinkAbout2012-03-20E IDIAN~--
CITY COUNCIL REGULAR
MEETING AGENDA
Tuesday, March 20, 2012 at 7:00 PM 7:05 PM
1. Roll-Call Attendance
X David Zaremba X Brad Hoaglun
X_ Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
2. Pledge of Allegiance
3. Community Invocation by David Brown with the LDS Church
4. Adoption of the Agenda Adopted
5. Consent Agenda Approved
A. Approve Minutes of January 24, 2012 City Council PreCouncil
Meeting
B. Approve Minutes of January 24, 2012 City Council Regular
Meeting
C. Approve Minutes of February 14, 2012 City Council PreCouncil
Meeting
D. Approve Minutes of March 7, 2012 City Council Special
Meeting
E. Approval of 2012-2013 Beer, Wine and Liquor License
Renewals as follows:
Sakana Sushi 1718 S. Eagle Rd. B/W
Kahootz 1603 N. Main St. B/W/L
Winco 1505 S. Progress Ave. B/W
Wal-Mart #2862 4051 E. Fairview Ave. B/W
Ustick Chevron 770 W. Ustick Ave. B/W
Idaho Pizza 405 E. Fairview Ave. B/W
Fast Eddy's Ten Mile 750 N. Ten Mile Rd. BNV
Fast Eddy's Locust Grove 1745 E. Overland Rd. B/W
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda -Tuesday, March 20, 2012 Page 1 of 4
All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearing,
please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting.
Jacksons #1 412 E. Fairview Ave. B/VV
Jacksons #11 1585 S. Meridian Rd. B/VN
Jacksons #35 522 Cherry Lane B/W
Jacksons #56 66 E. State St. B/W
Jacksons #97 3100 E. Magic View Dr. B/W
Jacksons #98 1950 E. Fairview Ave. B/W
Jacksons #105 3291 E. Pine Ave. B/VU
Jacksons #118 1625 W. Franklin Rd. BNV
Jacksons #140 3010 Goldstone Ave. B/W
Jacksons #99 180 E. Central Dr. B/W
F. First Addendum to October 15, 2011 Memorandum of
Agreement for Rental of Rocky Mountain High School
Auditorium
G. Second Amendment to Development Agreement for Approval:
MDA 11-012 Meridian Town Center by Meridian CenterCal, LLC
Located at Northeast Corner of E. Fairview and N. Eagle Road
Request: Amend the existing Development Agreement
(Instrument #111052692)to Include an Updated and Expanded
Development Plan and Minor Edits to the Text of the
Agreement
H. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Approval: RZ 11-007
Accolade Apartments by Gramercy, LLC Located South of E.
Overland Road and West of S. Bonito Way, Between E. Blue
Horizon Drive and the Ridenbaugh Canal Request: Rezone of
12.29 Acres of Land from an R-15 (Medium High-Density
Residential), a TN-C (Traditional Neighborhood Commercial)
and a C-G (General Retail and Service Commercial) Zone to an
R-40 (High-Density Residential) Zone
I. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Approval: PP 11-014
Accolade Apartments by Gramercy, LLC Located South of E.
Overland Road and West of S. Bonito Way, Between E. Blue
Horizon Drive and the Ridenbaugh Canal Request: Preliminary
Plat Approval of Two (2) Residential Lots and Two (2) Common
Lots on 17.12 Acres in an Existing R-15 and Proposed R-40
Zoning Districts
J. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP 11-
010 Accolade Apartments by Gramercy, LLC Located South of
E. Overland Road and West of S. Bonito Way, Between E. Blue
Horizon Drive and the Ridenbaugh Canal Request: Conditional
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda -Tuesday, March 20, 2012 Page 2 of 4
All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearing,
please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting.
Use Permit for 264 Multi-Family Dwelling Units on
Approximately 11.53 Acres in a Proposed R-40 Zoning District
K. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Approval: MDA 11-
013 Accolade Apartments by Gramercy, LLC Located South of
E. Overland Road and West of S. Bonito Way Between E. Blue
Horizon Drive and the Ridenbaugh Canal Request: Amend the
Recorded Development Agreement (Inst. #106141056) for the
Purpose of Excluding the Property AND Creating a new
Development Agreement for the Proposed Accolade
Apartments
L. Final Order for Approval: TEC 12-002 Centrepointe Subdivision
No. 2 (North) by Blue Marlin Investments, LLC Located West
Side of N. Eagle Road, Approximately 1/4 Mile North of E.
Ustick Road Request: Two Year (2) Time Extension on the
Preliminary Plat
M. Water and Sewer Easement for Crossfield Apartments aka
Crossfield Subdivision #4
6. Community Items/Presentations
A. Police Department: Swearing In Of New Police Officers
(Pg 4-6)
7. Items Moved From Consent Agenda None
8. Action Items
A. Public Hearing: TEC 12-003 Olivetree at Spurwing Subdivision
by Spurwing Limited Partnership Located North of W. Chinden
Boulevard, West of N. Spurwing Way Request: Two (2) Year
Time Extension on the Preliminary Plat in Order to Obtain the
City Engineer's Signature on a Final Plat Approved (Pg 6-8)
B. Public Comment on Proposed Outdoor Sales and Temporary
Uses Code Update -Increased Time Limits for Temporary
Sales Units and Garage Sales, Temporary Construction Site
Standards Discussion will be continued to April 10, 2012 at
3:00 PM (Pg 8-21)
C. Ordinance No. 12-1506: First Reading -Outdoor Sales and
Temporary Uses Code Update, Increasing Time Limits for
Temporary Sales Units and Garage Sales, Adding Standards
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda -Tuesday, March 20, 2012 Page 3 of 4
All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearing,
please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting.
for Temporary Construction Sites First reading was continued
to April 10, 2012 at 3:00 PM (Pg 21)
9. Department Reports
A. City Clerk's Office and Planning Department Joint Report: Fee
Waiver Request Received from Joe and Leslie Palmer in
Response to a Possible Application for a Certificate of Zoning
Compliance Verification and City Council Appeal Item vacated
from the agenda (Pg 21)
B. City Clerk's Office and Planning Department Joint Report: Fee
Waiver Request Received from Lois Garcia in Response to a
Possible Application for an Accessory Use Permit and City
Council Appeal Denied (Pg 22-25)
C. Public Works: Approval of Pipeline Crossing Agreement with
Union Pacific Railroad fora Water Line Crossing of the
Railroad at Meridian Road for aNot-To-Exceed Amount of
$11,000.00 Approved (Pg 25-26)
D. Public Works: Approval of Pipeline Crossing Agreement with
Union Pacific Railroad fora Sewer Line Crossing of the
Railroad at Meridian Road for aNot-To-Exceed amount of
$2,000.00 Approved (Pg 26-27)
E. Clerk's Office: Approval of New Liquor License for FCO
Meridian LLC dba Flatbread Community Oven Located at 830
N. Main St. Suite A. This Item is Pending Approval from Ada
County. Approved
Moved to Item # 5E on the Consent Agenda -The County
License was received
F. Clerk's Office: Approval of Beer, Wine and Liquor License
Renewal for FCO Meridian LLC dba Flatbread Community
Oven Located at 830 N. Main St. Suite A. This Item is Pending
Ada County Approval. Approved
Moved to Item # 5E on the Consent Agenda -The County
License was received
10. Future Meeting Topics
Adjourned at 8:14 PM
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda -Tuesday, March 20, 2012 Page 4 of 4
All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearing,
please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting.
Meridian City Council March 20. 2012
A meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:05 p.m., Tuesday, March
20, 2012, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, David Zaremba, Keith Bird, Brad Hoaglun
and Charlie Rountree.
Others Present: Bill Nary, Jacy Jones, Pete Friedman, Rich Dees, Bruce Chatterton,
Jeff Lavey, Mike de St. Germaine, Perry Palmer, and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
X David Zaremba X Brad Hoaglun
X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
De Weerd: Sorry for our delayed start, but thank you for joining us here this evening.
For the record it is Tuesday, March 20th. It's 7:05. We will start with roll call
attendance. Madam Clerk.
Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance
De Weerd: Item No. 2 is the Pledge of Allegiance. If you will all rise and join us in the
pledge to our flag.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
Item 3: Community Invocation by David Brown with the LDS Church
De Weerd: Item No. 3 is our community invocation. Tonight we will led by David Brown
with the LDS Church. Or not. Well, we will skip that item.
Item 4: Adoption of the Agenda
De Weerd: Item No. 4 is adoption of the agenda.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: A couple of items to note on our agenda this evening. Under 8-C that
ordinance number is 12-0506. Under 9-A there is a request to vacate that, as the
requesters no longer wish us to request a fee waiver. Item No. 9-E, we can move that
to 5-E on the Consent Agenda, since we have received the county license -- was just
Meridian City Council
March 20, 2012
Page 2 of 27
received, so Meridian, LLC, approval of the new liquor license for FCO Meridian, LLC,
dba Flatbread Community Oven can be moved to Item 5-E as part of that list. Same
with 9-F, approval of beer, wine, liquor license for the same. And with those changes,
Madam Mayor, I move adoption of the agenda as amended.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda as amended. All those
in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 5: Consent Agenda
A. Approve Minutes of January 24, 2012 City Council PreCouncil
Meeting
B. Approve Minutes of Ja nuary 24, 2012 City Council Regular
Meeting
C. Approve Minutes of Fe bruary 14, 2012 City Council PreCouncil
Meeting
D. Approve Minutes of March 7, 2012 City Council Special
Meeting
E. Approval of 2012-2013 Beer, Wine and Liquor License
Renewals as follows:
Sakana Sushi 1718 S. Eagle Rd. B/W
Kahootz 1603 N. Main St. B/W/L
Winco 1505 S. Progress Ave. B/W
Wal-Mart #2862 4051 E. Fairview Ave. B/W
Ustick Chevron 770 W. Ustick Ave. B/W
Idaho Pizza 405 E. Fairview Ave. B/W
Fast Eddy's Ten Mile 750 N. Ten Mile Rd. B/W
Fast Eddy's Locust Grove 1745 E. Overland Rd. B/W
Jacksons #1 412 E. Fairview Ave. B/W
Jacksons #11 1585 S. Meridian Rd. B/VV
Jacksons #35 522 Cherry Lane B/W
Jacksons #56 66 E. State St. B/W
Jacksons #97 3100 E. Magic View Dr. B/W
Jacksons #98 1950 E. Fairview Ave. B/W
Jacksons #105 3291 E. Pine Ave. B/W
Jacksons #118 1625 W. Franklin Rd. B/W
Meridian City Council
March 20, 2012
Page 3 of 27
Jacksons #140 3010 Goldstone Ave. B/W
Jacksons #99 180 E. Central Dr. BIW
F. First Addendum to October 15, 2011 Memorandum of
Agreement for Rental of Rocky Mountain High School
Auditorium
G. Second Amendment to Development Agreement for Approval:
MDA 11-012 Meridian Town Center by Meridian CenterCal, LLC
Located at Northeast Corner of E. Fairview and N. Eagle Road
Request: Amend the existing Development Agreement
(Instrument #111052692)to Include an Updated and Expanded
Development Plan and Minor Edits to the Text of the
Agreement
H. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Approval: RZ 11-007
Accolade Apartments by Gramercy, LLC Located South of E.
Overland Road and West of S. Bonito Way, Between E. Blue
Horizon Drive and the Ridenbaugh Canal Request: Rezone of
12.29 Acres of Land from an R-15 (Medium High-Density
Residential), a TN-C (Traditional Neighborhood Commercial)
and a C-G (General Retail and Service Commercial) Zone to an
R-40 (High-Density Residential) Zone
Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Approval: PP 11-014
Accolade Apartments by Gramercy, LLC Located South of E.
Overland Road and West of S. Bonito Way, Between E. Blue
Horizon Drive and the Ridenbaugh Canal Request: Preliminary
Plat Approval of Two (2) Residential Lots and Two (2) Common
on 17.12 Acres in an Existing R-15 and Proposed R-40 Zoning
Districts
J. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP 11-
010 Accolade Apartments by Gramercy, LLC Located South of
E. Overland Road and West of S. Bonito Way, Between E. Blue
Horizon Drive and the Ridenbaugh Canal Request: Conditional
Use Permit for 264 Multi-Family Dwelling Units on
Approximately 11.53 Acres in a Proposed R-40 Zoning District
K. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Approval: MDA 11-
013 Accolade Apartments by Gramercy, LLC Located South of
E. Overland Road and West of S. Bonito Way Between E. Blue
Horizon Drive and the Ridenbaugh Canal Request: Amend the
Recorded Development Agreement (Inst. #106141056) for the
Purpose of Excluding the Property AND Creating a new
Meridian City Council
March 20, 2012
Page 4 of 27
Development Agreement for the Proposed Accolade
Apartments
L. Final Order for Approval: TEC 12-002 Centrepointe Subdivision
No. 2 (North) by Blue Marlin Investments, LLC Located West
Side of N. Eagle Road, Approximately 114 Mile North of E.
Ustick Road Request: Two Year (2) Time Extension on the
Preliminary Plat
M. Water and Sewer Easement for Crossfield Apartments aka
Crossfield Subdivision #4
E. Clerk's Office: Approval of New Liquor License for FCO
Meridian LLC dba Flatbread Community Oven Located at 830
N. Main St. Suite A. This Item is Pending Approval from Ada
County.
F. Clerk's Office: Approval of Beer, Wine and Liquor License
Renewal for FCO Meridian LLC dba Flatbread Community
Oven Located at 830 N. Main St. Suite A. This Item is Pending
Ada County Approval.
De Weerd: Item 5 is our Consent Agenda.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: With the addition of 9-E and F, to 5-E as part of our Consent Agenda, I move
approval of the Consent Agenda and the Mayor to sign and Clerk to attest.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda. If there is
no discussion by Council, Madam Clerk, will you, please, call roll.
Roll Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 6: Community Items/Presentations
A. Police Department: Swearing In Of New Police Officers
Meridian Cily Council
March 20, 2012
Page 5 of 27
De Weerd: We are at Item No. 6-A, which is under our police department. I will turn
this over to our police chief, Chief Lavey. And I will note that I'm thrilled to finally be a
part of this ceremony.
Lavey: Madam Mayor, you beat me to that. I was actually going to make a statement in
that regards. Madam Mayor, Council, it's a pleasure to have the time today and this is
our -- a time where we actually introduce new officers. The purpose today is to not only
introduce those officers, but it's to swear them in and before we get started with that I
would like to congratulate Todd Charlton, Jared Hockbite and Shannon Taylor for
successfully passing the police academy on Friday. They graduated at 11:00 a.m. last
Friday. They have got right straight to work again. They have went through about 16
weeks of training so far and they have another 15 before they are on the streets by
themselves. So, they still have a long ways to go. But they are kind at that halfway
point. But I'd like to thank them for their commitment that they have given to this
community and most importantly I would like to thank their families for the sacrifices that
they had to endure for the last ten weeks. You may or may not recall the police
academy is a closed campus and they do not get to go home, except on weekends.
And that was particularly challenging with one of candidates who had a newborn while
in the academy, so my hat is off to the --
De Weerd: That's perfect.
Lavey: -- to the mother for that one. So, if I could have the three officers come forward
and stand over here, kind of face the audience and Council, too. What we are going to
do is we are actually going to swear them in and, then, we will have the family members
come forward and pin their badges on them and maybe stick them. We will see if that
happens. If you could raise your right hand for me, officers. I, state your name, do
solemnly swear or affirm that I will support the Constitution of the United States and the
constitutional laws of the state of Idaho and the laws and the ordinances of the City of
Meridian. That I will abide by the Law Enforcement Code of Ethics and the policies and
procedures of the Meridian Police Department. That I will obey all lawful orders and
directives from those appointed over me and that I will, to the best of my ability, faithfully
discharge all the duties of police officer in and for the City of Meridian, State of Idaho, so
help me God. Congratulations. Madam Mayor, Council, this -- these three people
would make up a total of 86 officers. We have one opening. So, these are the 86th
officers. Thank you.
De Weerd: I would also like to thank the families as well. Certainly we know that it's a
commitment for the families to support our officers and so in advance we appreciate
your sacrificing and allowing your other halves to be involved in our community in this
fashion and certainly welcome our new officers. You are part of an -- in our opinion --
and my opinion is very biased -- of an elite department that takes their responsibility to
-- that protect and serving, providing customer care to our citizens -- and certainly we
know that the greatest asset that we can be in attracting employers, retaining
employers, and keeping our citizens safe are our officers, our public safety employees.
Meridian City Council
March 20, 2012
Page 6 of 27
So, thank you for joining us and for the commitment that you have already given and I
wish you great success in the second half of this training aspect. We look forward to
cutting you loose on the streets of our community. So, thank you.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I wish to welcome our new officers to the city and our community. You are
now not just part of our elite police force, but our community and I think that is important
for all of us and I appreciate your time and your family being here and I, too, wish you
well in your remaining 15 weeks and look forward to seeing you out there serving the
community. Thank you.
Hoaglun: Well, Madam Mayor, I'd just like to say welcome and congratulations and
you're almost fully there and you have -- we do like to think of our force as an elite force,
because they are fine men and women who serve the public and do it very well and are
very conscientious and so the people we hire with our staff that we have on hand we
think we get the best and so you're part of that. So, thank you and, again, welcome.
De Weerd; Okay. Thank you, chief, and thank you for joining us. And congratulations
on the new member.
Rountree: And you don't have to stay.
De Weerd: Oh, come on.
Item 7: Items Moved From Consent Agenda
De Weerd: Okay. There were no items moved from the Consent Agenda.
Item 8: Action Items
A. Public Hearing: TEC 12-003 Olivetree at Spurwing Subdivision
by Spurwing Limited Partnership Located North of W. Chinden
Boulevard, West of N. Spurwing Way Request: Two (2) Year
Time Extension on the Preliminary Plat in Order to Obtain the
City Engineer's Signature on a Final Plat
De Weerd: So, we will move to Item 8-A under Action Items for public hearing on TEC
12-003. I will open this public hearing with staff comments.
Friedman: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. This is a time
extension for the plat of Olivetree at Spurwing. As you can see it's just located between
north of Chinden and west of North Spurwing Way. It's kind of in between Spurwing
and sort of near Jaykers. This is the third time extension. IY consists of 65 building lots
Meridian City Council
March 20, 2012
Page 7 of 27
on 20 acres and the only thing that changed in a positive manner really since the last
time extension is that the city's been able to workout some of the sewer deficiencies
over in the Jaykers plat, which is where the effluent from these future homes will flow to.
So, that's one kind of roadblock that's been taken out of the way. We have reviewed
the conditions of approval of the development agreement and so forth and the only two
conditions that we would add at this time merely reflect the new surety performance and
warranty requirements of the city. So, we are recommending approval of the time
extension with those as they have been articulated in the staff report. The applicant's
representative has been contacted -- she's also here tonight, but the applicant's in
agreement with the staff report. So, with that we recommend approval with the three
conditions. One being conformance with all the conditions of the preliminary/final plat,
development agreement, and, then, the two additional conditions for conformity with the
surety and warranty and performance surety requirements of the city.
De Weerd: Thank you, Pete. Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
Rountree: I have none.
De Weerd: I would point out at this point that we do have our new director sitting over
there. So, it's nice seeing you in the staff seats instead of in the audience. So,
welcome.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes. Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I guess this is a question about whether we want to make the question I'm
about to make or not. When this first came through there was quite a bit of discussion
about the access or non-access to Ten Mile and I think we ended up with that little
L-shaped thing over there being an emergency only access and part of that is that they
actually don't own enough property to make it to the center line of Ten Mile Road.
That's separate ownership next to it. I guess my question is do we need to revisit
whether that should be a whole access or not in light of what else Spurwing is doing
with what is currently their main entrance. We are talking about moving the main
entrance farther away from the current North Spurwing Way that it has traditionally been
and I wonder if that makes a difference for the fire and police departments.
Friedman: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, it was something that didn't come
up in the comments that we received when we circulated this to the affected agencies
and you do point out, Councilman Zaremba, that there is a plan to close off the existing
Spurwing Way. However, at this juncture we haven't received any comments from any
of our emergency responders about improving that to a full --full access street.
Meridian City Council
March 20, 2012
Page 8 of 27
De Weerd: Certainly if I recall there was discussion during the hearing provided by the
fire department at that time. So, bringing it up again at this point.
Zaremba: Yeah. I just didn't remember whether the two different subjects were
connected or not. If there is no objection, then, I'm happy.
De Weerd: Okay. Making you happy is very important. Any comment by the
applicant? Okay. So, Council -- this is a public hearing. Is there anyone who would
like to provide testimony on this item? Okay.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Seeing no one interested in testifying, I move that we close the public
hearing for Item 8-A, TEC 12-003.
Hoaglun: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. All those in favor
say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we approve the two year extension for Item 8-A, subject to staff's
comments and recommendations.
Hoaglun: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve this item. Any discussion from
Council? Madam Clerk.
Roll Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
B. Public Comment on Proposed Outdoor Sales and Temporary
Uses Code Update -Increased Time Limits for Temporary
Sales Units and Garage Sales, Temporary Construction Site
Meridian City Council
March 20, 2012
Page 9 of 27
Standards
De Weerd: Okay. We will move to our next item 8-B under public comment on a
proposed outdoor sales and temporary use code update. I'll turn this over to Mr. Nary.
Nary: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. You have in front of you a
draft ordinance with some changes to our outdoor sales and temporary use ordinance.
I will highlight what they are specifically. Under temporary sales units currently the
requirement is that the operator of the temporary sales unit must not only identify the
dates of sale, but cannot exceed more than 60 days, whether they are consecutive or
not, within in a calendar year. The proposal is to expand that to 90 days. On outdoor
markets, there currently is an allowance of 20 six square foot signs -- a two-by-three
foot sign and four 32 square foot, so a four-by-eight foot sign. This proposal is to bring
that down from 20 to four of the two-by-three foot signs and two of the four-by-eight foot
signs. So, a reduction in the number of signs that would be allowed for an outdoor
market. Under garage sales currently the ordinance reads that you're not entitled --
you're not allowed to have more than four garage sales fora 365 day period. This is an
amendment to make it within a current calendar year. From a tracking purpose it's a
little difficult to track the 365. For temporary construction sites there is some additions
that would be -- that would make it unlawful to store any construction materials in the
roadway, unless they had a permit from the right of way agency. We have been finding
in a number of subdivisions that are getting built they store a lot of material in the
roadways, yet there are people living sometimes in these subdivisions with all this
material still in the street. Also that they have to have an enclosure for trash so they
don't have trash that gets scattered or blown around the subdivision. So, those are the
changes that are being proposed. This is an opportunity for any discussion if you
wanted public input. We do have one letter I think on the public record from the clerk's
office in your packet and that was from a temporary sales unit from last summer. And
any questions?
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Nary. Council, any questions for Mr. Nary at this point?
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
De Weerd: Okay. I do have a person who has signed up on our sign-up sheet signed
up against. Bill Egner. Would you like to provide comment? Thank you for joining us.
If you would, please, state your name and address for the record.
Egner: It's Bill Egner. E-g-n-e-r. The address is 10400 Overland Road, No. 266. That
is Boise, Idaho. 83709.
De Weerd: Thank you, Bill.
Egner: I'd just like to comment and find out a little bit more in depth. I was just made
aware of this through Nancy Radford as of Friday afternoon and the changes. We own
Meridian City Council
March 20, 2012
Page 10 of 27
and operate Meridian Farmers Market, of which this directly affects. We have been
doing the market for over seven years. It will be our eighth year. From what I
understand to go from -- 1 actually thought it was 24 signs down to four -- I think to begin
with that's a significant decrease, if you will, considering our signage that we put up is
professionally done, it's not of the fluorescent poster paper handwritten, but they are
actual professional graphics, et cetera, and they exist on Saturdays for four hours.
Approximately they go up right around 9:00 o'clock and they are taken immediately
down afterwards at closing at 1:00 o'clock. That is our main form of advertising and
consistent with the fact that we have been transient in the past, we now have a
permanent location as long as we do adhere to our TUP and to the requirements of our
landlord there at the Meridian Crossroads Shopping Center. We post our signs to make
sure that they are not in any danger as far as foot traffic on the sidewalks, et cetera, nor
do they impede traffic, bicycles, et cetera. So, I would like to at least ask the Council to
postpone this decision at least on the signs. I'm not clear -- like I said, because I did not
see the full sheet. There were two a-mails that were sent to me. One with an error that
was first sent me from Ms. Radford and, then, subsequently the follow-up I did not
receive to go through it, but I did talk to Council on my end, as well as the landlord and
vendors that participate and they would like to have a say and be heard on this,
because it affects not only what we do, but it also affects quite a few of the vendors of
which we have attending each week. And the signage goes up just on Saturdays and
it's there for 22 weeks, to give you an idea. Whereas I'm not sure if this was directed
towards -- I know some of the signage -- the Red Barn and some of the others I don't
know the names of them, the outdoor markets that are -- there is one that is over in the
Albertson's parking lot, from what I understand similar time frame, but they are there
every day of the week, whereas we are not. And, like I said, we do take care in putting
something out that's easy to look at, it's professionally done and it's not -- I don't think
something that's an eye sore, if you will, for the community. We have been doing it, like
I said, the same way for seven years and that's it.
De Weerd: Thank you, Bill. Council, any questions?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Just to be certain, in counting the signs are you talking that you have a lot of
signs that are just generally identifying the farmers market or are you counting signage
that would be on each booth for each vendor?
Egner: No. Just specifically out along the sidewalk area that is actually on the
landlord's property. They are, for lack of better terms, a sandwich board type sign and
they denote the actual logo, which is a Meridian Farmers Market logo, and, then, there
might be a vegetable sign, if you will, that's colorfully done, but tastefully done and there
might be a barbecue sign, et cetera. There is just different varieties. But the focal point
is actually to advertise the Meridian Farmers Market. And that's essentially it.
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March 20, 2012
Page 11 of 27
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Question, Bill. You had mentioned that it's just Saturdays for 22 weeks now.
So, you're not leaving the signs out all week long.
Egner: No. Not at all.
Hoaglun: You're just putting them up and then --
Egner: It's literally four hours. It's from 9:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.m. they come down, so --
and Iwasn't clear on the a-mail that I received, but it sounded like I believe, Mayor, you
had posed the a-mail out there about the concern about the signage and I'm not sure if
that's correct or not. So, if the -- the scenario of somebody else, all I know is what we
do is from 9:00 until 1:00. So, you know, they are taken down, reloaded into our trucks
and unloaded on Saturday mornings et cetera, and taken down afterwards.
Hoaglun: Okay. Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions from Council?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: And this may be a question for Mr. Nary. I like the idea of limiting the
number of signs and most operations wouldn't be the size of what we are talking about
with the Meridian Farmers Market. Would it be an option to -- rather than change the
number in the new ordinance, to leave that number, but add an ability to apply for more
signs, so that there is somebody that would review whether that's okay or not and
possibly be able to approve this application, but still not change the ordinance, so that
most -- most people, if they get their temporary use permit, it limits it to the four signs,
but he would have the opportunity to say I need to apply for more than that?
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Zaremba, I mean
certainly I guess the concern I would have for planning is by what standard is more
appropriate? So, if you -- right now the ordinance is 20. The proposal is four. So, if it
was to leave it at 20 and they can apply for more -- I mean they can do that now, but I
don't know what standard we would create and maybe Mr. Chatterton or Mr. Friedman
have some thoughts, but I don't know what standard we would create for what -- why --
if we said we limit it to four, but you can apply for more, what would their basis be to
grant more. Everyone would want more most of the time. So, that would be my only
concern is how do we create an equitable standard to allow you to have more than that
Meridian City Council
March 20, 2012
Page 12 of 27
or bigger or whatever. I mean, again, most of the people would always want more and
they would always want bigger if they could.
Zaremba: That's an excellent -- Madam Mayor. That's an excellent question that I
hadn't thought of just off the top of my head. I would require that beyond the four signs
that they be a professional sign, as he has said they are, so that we are not just
automatically approving handwritten signs and day glow orange and that sort of stuff.
I'm just -- 1 guess my question is to all of us, would we want to work out some
parameters for accepting more. People that are only going to have four signs don't
need to go through it and they actually could probably be ugly signs, but that we make a
provision for allowing more than that if they are some criteria that are met. I agree we
are adding another level of administration and bureaucracy, but I -- you know, we
always have circumstances where somebody is doing it right and we appreciate that.
Most of the ordinances aren't written for people that would do it right in the first place,
they are written for the people who won't. But I guess my question is is there a way to
solve both problems?
De Weerd: Well, I think some of it is based on what was discussion bringing it from 20
to four. Is it frontage of -- of the property that -- and limiting that there are only so many
feet or -- I don't know, since we were not part of the discussion in coming up with the
limits, what it meant. Because certainly 20 signs in a hundred feet are an assault on
your senses, where 20 signs on a half mile of berm might not be. So, I think some of it
has to be on some of the discussion going into it. Pete or Bill?
Egner: May I make a comment? Whether or not it could be exempt for what we do,
because our whole base is to bring people to the community and where we are tied to
the tourism board, where we actually publicize so people can find us and it's based on
four hours every Saturday for 22 weeks. And we are not talking about a long drawn out
Monday through Sunday environment, we are talking about people that drive in from the
hotels, that come in through the Oregon tourism side that we promote and go after, to
our local area, and, then, outside greater outlying areas and they come and they try to
find us. It's not like we have a permanent sign that's up on a billboard that's says here
we are. This is how they find us is by looking at the signage and looking for it there and,
like I said, we don't put out something that's stock. It's a lot of money tied up in signs
that has been there for a reason to draw attention to the actual branded logo for the
community for, you know, the betterment of the vendors and the community, et cetera,
et cetera. So, I only ask that if there is a way to exempt that -- we have been pretty
methodical and have never had any complaints in seven years, nor have we had any
issues tied to traffic -- you know, incidents related to what we do, we have never had
any liability claims in insurance, et cetera. So, I appreciate the observation that we try
to do things by the letter of the law or the TUP, if you will, to make things work out right
and we are a small operation. Mayor, you have been there from day one. You have
seen what we do. It's a family operation. Myself, my wife, and three kids and a couple
staff. That's it. So, I ask for exclusion, rather than inclusion in a four sign environment if
that's at all possible. That we can continue to grow, especially now that we have a
Meridian City Council
March 20, 2012
Page 13 of 27
planted base to where we know we can be there as long as we don't do anything wrong.
The landlord and the tenants in that shopping center are very appreciative of what we
do to draw people to the area, specifically families.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I guess from a legal perspective I don't
see how we could grant an exclusion for Mr. Egner. All businesses can tell you the
same thing. They draw people. They bring patrons to our community. They spend
their money. So, from a legal perspective it's difficult to draw that as a dividing line.
The reason why when we craft an ordinance like this we end up really at the end of the
day talking about the number and the size is because it's objective. When we deal with
the subject things that you are discussing it's more problematic from both a legal
sufficiency perspective, as well as enforcement. It's difficult to address quality of
signage, because some people may think having a handwritten sign is a draw to their
business. If they are having a lemonade stand ahand-made sign probably would bring
people and the kid couldn't afford to go get a professional sign done. You're going to
get people that are going to want Jarger or bigger or more signs all the time, so, again,
we deal with really what the courts have supported, which is the number of them, the
size of them. Now, location certainly can be something we can look at. Separation is
something we could certainly look at as an alternative. The whole purpose of sign
limitations is to avoid the clutter, the impact on traffic as they are going down the road --
like the Mayor said, if you have a -- if you have a hundred yards of frontage and you
have 20 signs every four feet, it makes it a little bit more problematic than if you had a
half a mile. So, we could certainly look at a couple of those things if that's the Council's
desire in coming up with standards. My only caution --and certainly Planning may have
a concern as well -- is the more standards you create the more difficult enforcement you
create as well. When you have hours -- you know, you allow four, but not five, then,
someone has to go out at four and a half hours to make sure they are all gone. If they
have to be ten feet apart we have to make sure they are not 11 feet apart and they are
not eight. So, some of those things are much more problematic. Again, that's
sometimes why we end up at number and size are lot easier to deal with. Not that we
can't do those things, just, again, be thoughtful of that in trying to create some of these
standards that you would like to have that may be difficult to enforce or it may be difficult
to address. But we could certainly do any of those things you'd like to do and, again,
Planning may have a different perspective or maybe they have had more person
contact from individuals about clutter or number and those kinds of things.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Bill, you give me an answer, but not clear enough for me. What -- how did we
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March 20, 2012
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determine to go from 20 signs to four signs? I mean I have seen 20 signs put up that
looks very nice and I have seen four that looks like crap. But how come we all of a
sudden are telling people we want the business in here -- and they are not going to -- I
hope they are not going to try to -- you're going to always have somebody that detracts
from their business or wants -- but most of them want to be productive and have the
right signage and stuff and sometimes 20 works and it don't have to -- and it can be in
an enclosed area or a close area. Four signs in a large area might not be right. But I
think if they are done right and stuff -- I don't know why we have to go from 20 signs to
four signs. I mean I didn't realize we was having problems like that. So, I just don't
understand why all of a sudden we are down 16 signs personally.
De Weerd: Well, it's also consistency. You just told the fireworks stand they can only
have two signs. So, it is trying to find some standards and fairness -- take away some
of the -- the subjectiveness and what is enforceable and I believe that's what the
attempt was in this. And certainly signage during the economy was of interest to our --
not only temporary events, but our permanent brick and mortar businesses, so I -- I
don't know what the discussion was behind the proposal that is in front of you, but I
guess that's why I asked if there was something that we were trying to obtain from,
other than just 20 signs.
Egner: Mayor, Council, for me to this side, as far as looking at it, I understand the
concerns with fireworks, et cetera, but, in reality for my business it applies to four hours.
It's that simplistic. And I don't see how in a course where we go from Goodwood
Barbecue to Applebee's with our signs, they are properly spaced to where they are not
jammed 20 in one area and they are properly spaced and they are there for four hours.
Nothing more, nothing less. And I can't possibly see how that impedes any issues when
it comes to a sign ordinance, fairness, et cetera, et cetera. Because we are not talking
seven days a week, we are talking four hours, and I really find it hard to believe that we
should be subjected to that having done it for seven years and as Mr. Bird said, there
has never been an issue and to go from that -- that number to the other to me it seems
absolutely, at least on my business side, crazy, because it is four hours.
De Weerd: But, Bill, you didn't have 20 signs when you first started and, then, you were
in Boise --
Egner: Actually, we were right down here across the street. There were more than --
De Weerd: Okay. Sir, you can talk when I recognize you, but right now I was talking.
But the point is you were also in Boise and I don't know what their ordinances are, but
you were at Boise first, you fell under Boise's ordinances, not Meridian's and so I think
last year or the year before is when you moved back into our city limits and fell under
our ordinances and I will tell you that every business thinks that they are unique and
different than anyone else and what we have to be sensitive to is fairness to everyone,
not just one -- one business over another and that's what our ordinances and our staff
try to balance is fairness to everyone and so I know yours is different than a lot of
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March 20, 2012
Page 15 of 27
others, but I think we could get a lot of different people standing in front of us saying the
same thing. So, it is trying to find what is fair to everyone. Our current business
community that is there 24/7 versus our temporary and temporary opens up to a lot of
different types of activities that are going to be out there and they are all unique and
distinct.
Egner: May Ispeak -- may I speak, Your Honor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Egner: Or Mayor. Essentially we have been in the Meridian TUP or under the guise of
the TUP for the City of Meridian for the last four years. We were at city of Boise up
there and, then, we went from there to the area in Meridian next door to the Lowe's
parking lot and, then, to Corey Barton parking lot on Overland and now to where we are.
So, it's been four years, Your Honor -- or Mayor.
De Weerd: Time flies when you're having fun, uh.
Egner: So, we have had more than --
De Weerd: Thank you. I stand corrected.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor, question for Mr. Nary. Bill, as I read this, they could have four
temporary signs not to exceed six square feet, so two by three like -- it sounds like a
sandwich board is what you have up, but it does not allow them -- if they don't have a
four by eight and didn't desire, they didn't desire, they couldn't add two more of the two
by three's, could they, the way it's written, they either have to -- maximum four of the
two by three and maximum two and they couldn't substitute the smaller sign two
additional to add to the four the way it's -- as I read it it's just maximum four of this size
and maximum two of that; is that correct?
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Hoaglun, that's correct.
I guess an alternative, if you would like to consider -- again, keeping to the number is
just, you know, some number that you feel appropriate and up to a maximum size. So,
you know, if you want a certain number no larger than a certain amount, but, again, you
could have smaller -- you could say, you know, eight signs -- maximum is eight, you
know, four by eight. I don't know how many people are going to put up eight four by
eight signs, but they could put eight two by three signs if that's what they wanted. So, it
would give them some flexibility, so you could pick a number between -- again, our
intent really just to deal with the request of -- deal with the issue of sign clutter and,
then, trying to balance this ordinance versus the other ordinances that have sign
limitations on them. None of them has as many signs that are allowed for them as
much as this one. All the rest are two to four signs apiece and so we were trying to
make it more consistent with the others.
Meridian City Council
March 20, 2012
Page 16 of 27
Hoaglun: And, Madam Mayor ,just to talk out loud about this, think out loud if you will,
when I was listening to Councilman Zaremba's question, you know, it seemed like to me
-- I don't know if he was going in this direction, but the farmers market itself could have
four signs, plus two of the larger, and if Wild Bill's Fudge was there they could put up
that many signs and Suzy's Plants could also put up that many signs -- I didn't know if
that's what you were thinking of and I don't know if, Pete, you might have to weigh into
that, is does that allow that or is it -- since it's in the same outdoor market are they
limited to the six signs total.
De Weerd: It's under the TUP.
Hoaglun: Oh, it's -- okay. It's that one permit, isn't it? That market has the one permit,
so they are limited to the six, so --
Egner: That's what we tried to accommodate as far as picking up the cost and
absorbing that cost a long time ago, because the individual vendors, not needing to put
out signage, to draw attention, you know, to come to the event themselves.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor, question for Bill. How many -- how many do you have right
now -- or will you have like this summer estimated vendors?
Egner: Right around 20 and, then -- because we pulled some out if they are broken or
whatever the case may be, but it's pretty close to 20 we have always had and, then, two
banners. That was based on we went off the stipulation, what was in the TUP. Now,
based on what Mr. Nary said, I know the banners -- they weren't four by eight, they were
like two by whatever and they were put, you know, on stakes in the morning and, then,
they are again taken out, but they were a different configuration. It was based on the
TUP as far as what I recall was based on square footage.
Hoaglun: Yes. Madam Mayor --
Egner: And you just -- you just, you know, diagramed it or whatever based on square
footage.
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Yes. And it's based like the larger ones are 32 square feet, so they are if they
are two by 15 that's 30 square feet or two by six, which probably normal could do that.
How many signs, Bill, did you put up this past year? Did I hear that number?
Egner: It was pretty close -- I want to say it was 20 -- I know that there were 20 of the
smaller ones. I'm pretty sure it was 20. I thought it was initially 24, but it was what the
TUP, you know, recommended or allowed and, then, I believe there were two of these
32 square foot, which I think we used two by 16 foot vinyl banners that were just rolled
out, put up, and, then, taken down. So, they weren't of the configuration like a sandwich
Meridian City Council
March 20, 2012
Page 17 of 27
board.
Hoaglun: Okay. And, Madam Mayor. Bill, were those at your outdoor market, the vinyl
banners?
Egner: Correct. And they have been almost since day one. So, as I said, we are going
into our eighth year.
Hoaglun: Okay. Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further questions from Council? Okay. Thank you.
Egner: Thanks.
De Weerd: Additional testimony? Any comments from anyone else? Okay. Pete or
Bruce, any -- anything further from you?
Chatterton: Nothing at this point, Mayor.
De Weerd: Okay.. Council?
Rountree: Madam Mayor, a question for both Pete and Bruce. Getting to the question
of consistency, how does this relate to Boise's TUP or maybe Nampa, Caldwell?
Chatterton: Madam Mayor and Councilmen, this is to my mind -- I'm not very familiar
with Boise's similar ordinance in terms of being able to compare the standards. This is
amore coherent ordinance, though, just to typify it that way. There are actual standards
involved with it. Boise standards were somewhat less coherent, less rigorous than
these and I can't compare for the other cities.
Rountree: Okay. Thank you.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor, just to comment, I have been mulling over what is consistent
for us, because as Councilman Rountree pointed out, consistency is something we
strive for, because we -- we try very hard to be consistent and one of the things --
someone mentioned the fireworks ordinance and -- I think you did, Mayor, about -- and
we allowed two signs, plus, of course, signs -- a sign on their facility itself and I got to
thinking about that and I kind of pushed for that, because of a fireworks stand that is at
a corner could go with two signs and that way one on each corner and attract that
visibility. And so, then, I take that and I go, okay, if they were on a -- they were at a
corner and do they wish to advertise, if I apply that two signed consistent measurement
to that and they are at a major intersection, well, they could go two, four, six, eight if
they so desired and I come up with eight. How we come to that number that's my
struggle here is, okay, 20 to four, somewhere in between, what is that number that's the
right number and that's -- that's the difficulty of these things, because it's -- it's kind of
Meridian Cily Council
March 20, 2012
Page 18 or 27
arbitrary. We know clutter when we see it, but -- you know, but it all depends on how
that's put out there and that's -- that's the difficulty in something like this. So, I was
thinking eight of the -- of the two by three, just because in my mind that's consistent with
fireworks stands, if there was one at each corner you could see eight signs advertising
fireworks at an intersection, but -- so do you let an outdoor market have eight signs
consistent with the fireworks stands, so -- that's just one way my mind worked.
De Weerd: Any further comments? Questions? Council, would you like to hear from
Mr. Enner again?
Rountree: Sure.
Egner: Just briefly.
De Weerd: You will need to come up front, please.
Egner: Just a brief comment in regards to Mr. Chatterton. In reference or what was
referred to as our short stay at the Boise Community Center, which we weren't aware of
at the time was actually on Boise property. We complied with the TUPs there and there
were no issues .regards to the same signage that we have been using per their
requirements and never had an issue with theirs as well. And I'm pretty sure it was
either 20 or 22 of the exact same signs, because we didn't have to reintroduce them or
refabricate them. So, that was allowed through the city of Boise as well with no issue,
just as an FYI for the Council.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Ender: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, what is your desire on this item?
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I -- my concern is the -- the extreme pendulum swing here
from 20 to -- or six to three or whatever the numbers are and being able to explain that
and I can't explain that to myself. My desire is to see that there is some kind of
consistency between what we would allow and what would be allowed in other
communities. I would suggest that a motion might be in order to keep this hearing open
and ask staff to do a little more research and give us a little more information than we
have as to why we are where we are and, then, I can make a little more informed
decision, but right now I'm not comfortable with just saying that's the way it's going to
be.
Bird: Was that a motion, Charlie? I'll second --
Rountree: I would --
Meridian City Council
March 20, 2012
Page 19 of 27
De Weerd: We don't need a motion. This isn't a public comment on a proposed
ordinance change.
Rountree: It's comment. Okay.
Bird: We can continue --
De Weerd: We can certainly reset this --
Rountree: Let's just -- let's -- do we need a date certain to bring it back for
consideration?
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, what I would suggest is that maybe --
we can certainly have a meeting with Mr. Egner and maybe some of the other
businesses and see if there is some medium ground that we can figure out. Obviously,
it's no one's intention to hurt anyone's business, but we are trying to balance the other
ordinances. I'm looking at Boise's ordinance here and they don't have anything specific.
Mr. Chatterton's right, it's not -- it's not very concise and it doesn't deal with this type of
event. It deals with community events, which this isn't, and it deals with temporary
events, which doesn't really fall under their ordinance.. Sq, they don't really have
something that really addresses this specifically. So, we could certainly-- I wouldn't
propose a date certain, unless you would like. I mean we could bring it back at your
workshop maybe in April.
Bird: That would be good.
Nary: And maybe that would be a -- and, then, we could at least report back on some
discussion, we could look at other communities, talk to Mr. Egner, see if there is a way
we could find something that would be satisfactory to everybody, sort of like we did with
some of our other recent ordinances.
Rountree: That would be my preference.
De Weerd: Well -- and certainly, Bill, as you discuss it to -- to find things that are easy
to explain how this might be consistent with our fireworks stands and that sort of thing.
Nary: Sure.
De Weerd: Because anything we are willing or not willing to consider there. It's just
trying to find that consistency.
Nary: Absolutely.
Hoaglun: And, Madam Mayor, just to comment on the other sections that were
changed, I was satisfied with everything else on that.
Meridian City Council
March 20, 2012
Page 20 of 27
Bird: I was, too. It's just the sign limits
De Weerd: You need to speak into your microphone, please
Bird: It was -- like Charlie, the 20 to four just blew me out of the water. I couldn't figure
out why we -- and I don't compare a farmers market or a TUP to a fireworks stand. A
fireworks stand is a two week thing and --
De Weerd: Okay. Well, then, to a garage sale or to a yard sale or to a school
fundraiser.
Bird: They are in there. Fundraisers. You limit the fundraisers.
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Bird, I think we just need something that we can explain.
Bird: I agree.
Nary: So, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, are you okay with bringing the other
three sections back,. bringing those forward, we will take this piece out and we will bring
this back separately to your April workshop for discussion, but we can bring the other
ones forward for approval?
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Bird: Yeah.
Hoaglun: I'm fine.
Rountree: Yes. Yes.
De Weerd: Does that work?
Bird: I'm fine with that.
Rountree: That works.
De Weerd: Okay. Okay. Very good. And so that's the second Tuesday of April.
Bird: At 3:00 o'clock.
De Weerd: And, Bill, I'm sure staff will be working with you anyway, so you will know
what specifically date, but for the record it is April 10th.
Zaremba: I would add that our April 10f" meeting is at 3:00 o'clock, not at 7:00 o'clock.
Meridian City Council
March 20, 2072
Page 21 of 27
De Weerd: Okay.
Zaremba: 3:00 p.m. Yeah. Here.
C. Ordinance No. :First Reading -
Outdoor Sales and Temporary Uses Code Update, Increasing
Time Limits for Temporary Sales Units and Garage Sales,
Adding Standards for Temporary Construction Sites
De Weerd: I'm sorry, you can ask questions to staff and they can get you further
information. We can't have a conversation this way. Okay. Okay. So, Ordinance
12-0506 -- because that will have a change to it we will put that on the next month -- or
next week's agenda for the items that you feel comfortable with. Okay?
Rountree: Yes.
Item 9: Department Reports
A. City Clerk's Office and Planning Department Joint Report:, Fee
Waiver Request Received from Joe and Leslie Palmer in
Response to a Possible Application for a Certificate of Zoning
Compliance Verification and City Council Appeal
De Weerd: Okay. Item 9-A has been vacated. Mr. Nary, we don't need a specific
motion to consider the withdrawal of that?
Nary: Madam Mayor, probably just for the record a motion to vacate Item A is all that is
necessary and you don't need a roll call vote, just a voice vote.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we vacate 9-A.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to vacate 9-A. All those in favor say aye. All
ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Meridian City Council
March 20, 2012
Page 22 of 27
B. City Clerk's Office and Planning Department Joint Report: Fee
Waiver Request Received from Lois Garcia in Response to a
Possible Application for an Accessory Use Permit and City
Council Appeal
De Weerd: Okay. Item 9-B is under Mr. Friedman.
Friedman: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Before you is a request
from Lois Garcia for a -- two fee waivers, actually. The first one would be the fees for
establishing an accessory use permit for a home occupation and the second one would
be a request for waiving the fees of a City Council review that would likely result in the
possible denial of the home occupation permit. Mrs. Garcia has been having
conversations with staff about opening a beauty salon in a detached structure at her
property at the corner of East 4th and Carlton and in discussions with her -- and I think
as Council is aware, our -- right now home occupations are to be conducted entirely
within the existing residence on the property. So, the Council is vested with the
authority to waive in whole or in part any fees that might present a hardship to an
applicant. So, Mrs. Garcia is here I believe tonight to address that. We are not
undertaking a discussion or -- of that actual home occupation permit, but the action
would, be actually a waiver in whole or part of those fees and dependent upon Council
action or whatever decisions Mrs. Garcia wants to make in terms of her future business,
then, we would proceed forward.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, you do have the request in front of you. If you have
additional questions for the requester. Or, Mrs. Garcia, if there is anything in addition
that you want to add that was not in the letter. We have this fine line between what the
application would be and what -- the request for the fee waiver. So, it's -- we want to
make sure it's kept to just the fee waiver request and if you have anything to add that's
not in your letter I would invite to you come forward and share that. Okay. Council,
any questions for Mrs. Garcia?
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: My comment is that Idon't -- I don't necessarily see at this point a reason to
support the request for a waiver. If this needs to be heard and Mrs. Garcia wants to
bring this forward, bring it forward, but I don't see any reason why -- that I can support
waiving the fees. These requests cost us a lot of money in terms of public hearing
notices and staff time and the rest of the citizens in Meridian have to -- have to pay for
those. So, that's my position. Madam Mayor, I would also point out that this whole
matter of home occupancy is going to be subject to some discussions by the Council in
a workshop. Do we have that scheduled for a date, Pete?
Meridian City Council
March 20, 2012
Page 23 of 27
Friedman: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Rountree, I have
been looking at the April 10th workshop. We have been doing research along over the
last couple three weeks at the staff level and we will be ready to come to you on April
10th with sort of a summary of our existing regulations and a summary of the research
we have done on that, so we are fully prepared.
Rountree: Thank you. And, then, I would add that this question might be moot at some
point after that, depending on the information we receive and where we go with that
conversation.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I would join with Councilman Rountree in the thought that the -- the purpose
for the fees in the first place is to cover our expenses for applications that benefit one
person or a very small selected group of persons and are not of general benefit to the
whole city and the point of the fees is that the general citizenship not to pay for a single
application made by individuals and I agree with him, I don't see an ability to uvaive
these fees, because we will go through a process and have the public hearing and
those expenses need to be paid by the person that's requesting that activity.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Any additional comment?
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor, just to comment. There are -- we are going to be taking
another look at this home occupation and different things like that and I'd really like to
see what comes from that before we really get far down with this and acting on this
particular one. But I generally agree with what's been said. To get into a business is --
there are costs involved and it just isn't fair to throw it to the other taxpayers. I mean
everyone complains about taxpayers subsidizing businesses and that's -- you hear it at
the federal level every day and we have people saying we got to quit doing that and --
but -- and we should not be doing it at the local level, so -- but I'd rather see what
happens with this and see where we go on that and things may be changing for the
applicant down the road or not, but as far as the fee waiver request, it's not something I
want to do.
De Weerd: Okay. I'm getting a sense of the direction from Council, but I would ask staff
that -- I'm sure Mrs. Garcia is sitting out there wondering what on earth we are talking
about in terms of considering our home occupation ordinance and that sort of thing. So,
if you can share some of the background on that and some of the information that you'
have been talking to I would greatly appreciate that.
Friedman: Sure thing, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. I haven't looked at detail
of what we found, but just to step back, of course, the whole purpose of our home
Meridian City Council
March 20, 2012
Page 24 of 27
occupation regulations is to -- you know, is to allow some latitude in the use of a
residential dwelling for a business enterprise while maintaining the residential character
for the use and enjoyment both of the resident and their neighbors. And so generally
when it really comes to regulating home occupations, it comes down to two general
subject matters, one being the operational characteristics, like number of employees, if
any. Number of off-site visitors, if any. Number of deliveries, if any. Hours of
operation. Those sorts of things. And, then, of course, the other one is in appearance
and the intent of our regulations and many others is is that you drive by, you look at a
residence where a home occupation is occurring and other than maybe a small sign or
something like that, it is to give-the general appearance that -- that the principal use of
the property is residential and it remains that way. One of the things we had do, of
course, is we restrict the square footage of the amount of the residence to 25 percent of
the dwelling that can be used for the business. You can store materials in the detached
structure, but you can't conduct the operation out of the detached structure currently.
One of the things we will probably be looking at is if it's the Council's desire to loosening
that up a little bit with some restrictions on that. I know, for example, physically it's
different -- particularly out in the county you might have a 1,500 square foot residence,
but you might have a 3,000 square foot accessory structure where a home occupation
is being conducted and so, again, it really gets down to operations and appearance and
so in talking with staff we have been looking at ordinances around the country. APA
has -- American Planning Association has some literature that we have been reviewing.
I now have a couple websites that I have sent staff to to look at codes from other cities
and right now sort of the overview is we are pretty much in alignment with what's going
on in other cities and other areas of the country. That being said, I -- you know, I think it
certainly is worth having a conversation about our current regulations where -- if it's the
Council and Mayor's pleasure to kind of take an examination of what we do and have
that. What I would counsel is that if we get some direction at that April 101h workshop,
then, we would have to prepare the code amendment, take that to P&Z. I think we
could probably do it probably say and have it to P&Z in May, that would be the earliest,
June probably the latest, for their consideration and, then, or course, the public hearing
and, then, have it back to you, you know, four weeks later. So, best guess is if we got
to P&Z in May, we might get it to you in June or early July -- probably worse case is if
somehow we miss the May amount of hearings, get it to P&Z in June and, again, back
to you maybe late July or early August, so I don't know if that helps, Mayor, or if you
want some more details on that or not.
De Weerd: No. I think that's good detail. Council, any questions on that?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. And certainly in the home occupation realm is that -- that service
what qualifies within those districts. Certainly we want to bring services close to the
residents that will be using them and what's compatible within that neighborhood.
Council, you do have a different type of request in front of you. Counsel or Mr. Attorney,
is -- we do need action on this request.
Meridian City Council
March 20, 2012
Page 25 of 27
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I would move denial of the fee waiver request on Item 9-B.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. Any discussion on that motion?
Rountree: I have none.
De Weerd: Madam Clerk.
Roll Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
C. Public Works: Approval of Pipeline Crossing Agreement with
Union Pacific Railroad for a Water Line Crossing of the
Railroad at Meridian Road for aNot-To-Exceed Amount of
$11,000.00
De Weerd: Item 9-C is under our Public Works Department. I will turn this over to Mr.
Dees.
Dees: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this one -- this first one you have here is
requesting approval of a pipeline crossing under the Union Pacific Railroad tracks at
Meridian Road for the. purposes of installing a new water line, a 12 inch water main.
This is necessary when we do the split corridor to replace that water main, because the
one that's there is pretty much deteriorated and needs to be replaced. I will be happy to
answer any questions.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Do I have a motion?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Meridian City Council
March 20, 2072
Page 26 of 27
Zaremba: I move we approve Item 9-C for an amount not to exceed 11,000 dollars.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 9-C. Madam Clerk, will you
call roll.
Roll Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
D. Public Works: Approval of Pipeline Crossing Agreement with
Union Pacific Railroad for a Sewer Line Crossing of the
Railroad at Meridian Road for aNot-To-Exceed amount of
$2,000.00
De Weerd: Item 9-D. Also to Mr. Dees.
Dees: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, again, we have a line crossing request
for approval crossing the Union Pacific Railroad again at Meridian Road. With the split
corridor improvements that are about to take place this one is for the sewer lines, a 21
inch sewer line. Again, it's to upgrade the sewer line to make sure it will hold the
capacity it needs to hold. It's almost at the end of capacity now. It's not quite
surcharged, but it's quite full, so it's appropriate that we upgrade that pipe when we put
in the new road. I will stand for any questions.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions?
Rountree: I have none.
De Weerd: Seeing none --
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I move we approve Item 9-D for an amount not to exceed 2,000 dollars.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 9-D. Seeing no discussion,
Madam Clerk .
Meridian City Council
March 20, 2012
Page 27 of 27
Roll Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All eyes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 10: Future Meeting Topics
De Weerd: Item 9-E and F were moved to the Consent Agenda at the beginning of our
meeting and so that brings us Item 10 under Future Meeting Topics. We discussed a
couple this evening. Anything else for the good of the order?
Rountree: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. I would entertain a motion to adjourn.
Bird: So moved.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to adjourn. All those in favor way aye. All
ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT8:15 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
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