HomeMy WebLinkAbout2012-02-28Meridian City Council February 28, 2012
A meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:00 p.m., Tuesday,
February 28, 2012, by Council President Brad Hoaglun.
Members Present: David Zaremba, Keith Bird, Brad Hoaglun and Charlie Rountree.
Members Absent: Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Others Present: Bill Nary, Jaycee Holman, Pete Friedman, Rich Dees, Tracy
Basterrechea, Perry Palmer, Steve Siddoway, and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
X David Zaremba X Brad Hoaglun
X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
Mayor Tammy de Weerd
Hoaglun: Well, let's just roll right on. It is Tuesday, February 28~h, 2012. It is 7:00
o'clock. We are here for our regular City Council meeting and we will start the evening
with roll call atehdance.
Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance
Hoaglun: Our next item of business is the Pledge of Allegiance. Will you all rise and
join me in the Pledge.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
Item 3: Community Invocation by Dave Duron of Meridian First Baptist
Church
Hoaglun: Our community invocation will be led by Dave Duron, pastor of Meridian
First Baptist Church. Glad to have you here and take this time to join us in the
community invocation or as a moment of personal reflection. Thank you.
Duron: Let's pray. Heavenly Father, we thank you for this day and a day that has
been well invested by many us in our community right here and, Father, we thank you
for our public servants that are serving faithfully here. We pray for the continued
health of Mayor de Weerd and, Lord, we thank you for the privilege of the freedoms
that we have here in our country. We ask -- and I ask tonight for wisdom for all the
decisions that will be made and for the process that will continue and many of the
decisions that are started today. Thank you, God, for blessing us with this wonderful
country and this wonderful city and the state of Idaho. May you receive the glory, in
Jesus' name, amen.
Meridian City Council
February 28, 2012
Page 2 of 50
Item 4: Adoption of the Agenda
Hoaglun: Thank you. Our next item on the agenda is adoption of the agenda.
Rountree: Mr. President?
Hoaglun: Councilman Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we adopt the agenda as published.
Bird: Second. All those in favor say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 5: Consent Agenda Approved
A. Professional Services Agreement with BDPA, Inc. for Human
Resources Services Regarding an Internal Alignment
B. Water Easement for Life Church at 3226 E. Commercial Court
Hoaglun: Next item is the Consent Agenda.
Bird: Mr. President?
Hoaglun: Councilman Bird.
Bird: On the Consent Agenda, Item D, the proposed ordinance number is 12-1505 .
And with that I move that we approve the Consent Agenda as published and for
President to sign and the Clerk to attest.
Rountree: Second.
Hoaglun: We have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda. City
Clerk, will you, please, call the roll.
Roll Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, absent; Hoaglun, yea.
Hoaglun: All ayes. Consent Agenda is approved.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 6: Items Moved From Consent Agenda
Hoaglun: We had no items moved from the Consent Agenda.
Meridian City Council
February 2B, 2012
Page 3 of 50
Item 7: Action Items
A. Public Hearing: TEC 12-001 Seyam Subdivision by Ronald W.
VanAuker Located North Side of E. Franklin Road,
Approximately 1,200 Feet East of Eagle Road Request: Time
Extension Approval on the Preliminary Plat for Seyam
Subdivision in Order to Obtain the City Engineer's Signature on
the Final Plat
Hoaglun: We will go to 7-A, public hearing on TEC 12-001. And, Pete, is that you?
Friedman: It is I.
Hoaglun: Okay.
Friedman: Thank you, President Hoaglun, Members of the Council. This is a time
extension by Ronald Van Auker for the Siam Subdivision. The subject property is
located east of Franklin -- on East Franklin Road just east of the Eagle Road, about a
quarter of a mile. This is the third time extension by the applicant. The first one was
the administrative time extension granted by the director and, then, they obtained
ahother one approximately 18 moriths ago: They have stated that due to continuing
economic situation that they are not ready to move forward to get the city engineer's
signature on the final plat and are requesting a two year time extension. We have
reviewed the request. There were no new conditions that we would apply to the
subdivision as it was originally approved by the Council. We did include - I take that
back. That was on a different one. Sorry if I'm getting ahead of myself on time
extensions. Anyway, we do recommend approval. The applicant is not here tonight,
but he has transmitted his concurrence with the staff report and recommendations.
Hoaglun: Thank you, Pete. And you said -- this is a public hearing. Indicated that the
applicant is not here, but is there anyone else who would like to speak to this matter?
Rountree: Mr. President?
Hoaglun: Councilman Rountree.
Rountree: Seeing none, I move that we close the public hearing for Item 7-A.
Bird: Second.
Hoaglun: Motion and a second to close the public hearing on 7-A. All those in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Rountree: Mr. President?
Meridian City Council
February 28, 2012
Page 4 of 50
Hoaglun: Councilman Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we approve the request for extension for Item 7-A, TEC 12-001.
Bird: Second.
Hoaglun: We have a motion and a second to approve 7-A, TEC 12-001. City Clerk,
would you, please, call roll?
Roll Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, absent; Hoaglun, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
B. Public Hearing: AP 12-001 Request: Appeal for a City Council
Review of the Director's Denial of an Accessory Use Permit
(AUP 12-001) for a Home Occupation by Lee White Located at
1750 N. Ten Mile Road
Hoaglun: Next up we have 7-B, public hearing request AP 12-001. Pete
Friedman: Thanks, President Hoaglun, Members of the Council. I'll give you a little
background on this. This is a request for review of the Planning Director's decision on
denying a home occupation permit or, technically, an accessory use permit for Mr. Lee
White for - to conduct business at his home at 1750 North Ten Mile Road. This goes
back a couple of years. I believe the Council is familiar with this. In January of 2010
Mr. White had applied for a similar permit and for the sole purpose of repairing,
restoring, and selling household and yard items at his home. At that time we reviewed
the application and determined that it did not comply with the specific standards for
home occupations in the Unified Development Code. The primary issues then, as are
now, are the outdoor display of materials, changes to the material appearance of --
and residential character of the property. It's not conducted within the primary
dwelling as required by code. It's conducted within -- some of it's conducted within
accessory structure, a garage, and the goods for sale are not produced or fabricated
on site. Well, subsequent to that denial in 2010, apparently Mr. White was not able to
file a request for review in a timely fashion and so things just sort of continued on
status quo. We received a couple little complaints last fall and we entered into some
discussions with Mr. White. Code enforcement was involved with those -- in those
discussions. And we really came down to three options. One was to cease the sale of
material on site. The second one was to avail himself of the city's provision for garage
sales and put the items that he restores out for sale four times a year for a garage
sale. Each one of those garage sales could be for three days. Or the third option was
to, again, apply for the home occupation permit with the understanding that it would be
denied and, then, he could seek Council review and redress of that denial. We had
come to the Council -- he had come to the Council previously for and was granted a
fee waiver for both the home occupation permit, as well as the rebut for Council
Meridian City Council
February 20, 2012
Page 5 of 50
review, which is what he is here for tonight. So, he did decide to move forward with
the home occupation permit application and that was filed with us in December 15t" of
2011 and upon receipt of that and review and noting that really conditions hadn't
changed there, it was my determination it did not comply with the UDC and I, therefore,
denied the application. This time Mr. White has filed a timely request for your review
and that's why we are here tonight.
Hoaglun: Thank you, Pete. Is the applicant present? Good evening, Mr. White. Can
you state your name and address for the record.
White: Lee White. 750 North Ten Mile Road, Meridian. I'm nervous. I was told not to
be, but it's something that happens I guess. Not .knowing exactly how to present my
position, my need to do what I have been doing, repairing and rebuilding things, putting
them out for recycling purposes, I believe each of you have a copy of the personal
narrative that I wrote, is that correct, in your files?
Hoaglun: Yes, we do have that. Yes.
White: You have that? Okay. That will - we will dispense with that, then. But the
agenda that I'd like to kind of run through was that -- I have some housekeeping items
I'd like to talk about and review the items that I cannot adhere to on the HOUP and,
then, we need to determine other issues that may be involved, if we can address them
and get them cleared. I would like to read a letter or two that have been given to me in
support of what I have been doing, if this would be permissible.
Hoaglun: Yes. And, Mr. White, we have some people signed up to testify, so if they
are the same people we could probably dispense with the letter, unless that's going to
be what they want to enter into the record.
White: There is no one here that I have a letter for
Hoaglun: Okay. Great.
White: -- that I have in my possession at this time. If we can proceed like that, why, I
was going to read the narrative that I had given, so that the audience would hear that,
but I think that in essence of time we will dispense with that for tonight.
Hoaglun: And, Mr. White, that will be part of the official public record and available for
people to read in the minutes and so on, so -that is a part of it, so --
White: Is this already available for personal or -
Hoaglun: Yes. No, no problem. Go ahead.
White: All right. Housekeeping items. I wanted to express gratitude or thank the
Council and the Mayor -the Mayor isn't here tonight, but you can give her my thanks
Meridian Cily Council
February 28, 2012
Page 6 of 50
for the service that you people do for the City of Meridian. Also for waiving the fees
that you have done for me. I appreciate it. Secondly, I would like to give thanks for the
assistance that has been given to me in getting to this point tonight to the Planning and
Zoning Department. They have done an excellent job and Kristi Vigil, Barbara Shiffer,
and Mr. Friedman are to receive my heart-felt thanks for what they have done. Now,
question. First of all, an issue that I had is -- if we haven't free interchange of
conversation here, do I have to address you as Council members each time I speak or
is it -
Hoaglun: Mr. White, we recognize people who come up here aren't used to doing this
all the time, so we do allow some latitude in that, but we just have to run things through
the chair, so that's -- if Mr. Rountree wants to address you or Councilman Bird, they
just ask for permission from me and I grant it to them and we do the same thing back
and forth. So, if you - if you had something for Councilman Bird you just have to ask
permission of me. We keep it light. No one's going to wrap the gavel or anything like
that.
White: Well, appreciate that.
Hoaglun: But we do try to follow a process here and procedure, but --
White: Okay.
Hoaglun: We don't make it too onerous.
Bird: Thank you very much. The question I have is for each of you Council members
is have any or all of you been by the place where I display the things that I repair for
recycling?
Hoaglun: I think, Mr. White, I can speak for the Council. We all know where it is
located, yes.
White: Okay. So, you know where it is -
Hoaglun: I personally drive it every day.
White: Okay. And the other two members have also done the same?
Hoaglun: Yes.
White: Okay. Then I probably won't need the pictures that I brought to show you the
entrances and the exists and -anyhow, let's go into the next stage of what I want to
do, then, is review of the denial. Number one was because the premises looks
different than they do. When I display recycled items along my southern rail fence it
doesn't seem like it really changes the appearance of the residence. They are not big
and bodacious. They are small in nature and well organized and I try to keep things a
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February 28, 2012
Page 7 of 50
minimum time frame, so I - I like to keep change and people will come by and talk to
me and look things over, like the variety that we are able to come up with. Where I
display the items it's a grand total of 19 feet from commercial property. There is a
commercial property on my west about 75 feet. The Meridian -Nampa-Meridian
Irrigation Company pumphouse. Adjoining my property -- or that property is a medical
facility also commercial. Drive-thru to my east is about 200 feet, a Meridian water
department well house well. Walgreen's is across my driveway -- or the driveway to
the south. Down south about a thousand feet is a credit union. Across the street from
that is Albertson's and about six or seven other commercial businesses. So, I feel like
I'm pretty much in the - I'm in the fringe area of a commercial zone I guess is the way
we want to say that. I'm not in a subdivision. And I take pride in my property. I want
to have it look nice. Besides I feel where my location is I'm a show -show place for
the neighborhood. Now, Item two on that denial was a business entirely from the
residence. Mr. Friedman talked about that considerably. My wife would not be happy
if I were to bring my shopsmith into the house or the welder or a drill press or the plain
and do the work that I do in the house. It -the 56 years that we have been married,
she would draw the line and I would be out on the porch sleeping for a long time
probably. So, that gives me an alternative of going to the garage, which is part of the
house. Now, if I were to move all this stuff I do into the garage I would have to move
the truck out, find a place to park it. I would have to redo the electrical system in there
to .handle the additional tools that) use. .Parking ,on Ten _Mile Road would be an
impossibility, which we are aware of. I would have to display my goods from the front
door of the garage and at that, then, if people were to come and take a look at what I
have, they would drive in my driveway or most likely park on Ten Mile Road. This
creates a problem, because people are coming right in front of my driveway, making a
left turn into Walgreens. Just to the south they are coming from two lanes into one
lane on the road. People are coming in and out of Walgreen's right and left. So, it
doesn't look like doing anything out of the garage is really a feasible alternative to what
I have been doing. Furthermore, I understand that widening process is in high speed
or beginning to get into high speed of Ten Mile Road and if that takes place that takes
-- my rumors tell me that it will take from ten to 15 feet off of the front of my property.
If that's the case I can't even back my truck out of the garage or my car out of the
garage without crossing into the traffic or sidewalk. So, that would mean that
everything that I do is shot down the tube anyhow. So, then, item number four on the
denial is that retail sales from the dwelling, only items fabricated or produced on the
premises can be sold. I'm at a loss to know how to provide my services to my
neighbor, except the way I have been doing it. My work takes place in a shop, not in
the loving room, and I'm wondering how we can make that happen, so that we can get
by and continue doing what I have been doing. I think that you as a governing body of
the Council and City of Meridian probably have ways of issuing a variance, which I
think we need to be looking at, so that I can continue it. If it happens I would be most
grateful, but I don't like to think of the idea that I'm breaking the law. I don't want to do
it intentionally. It's not my nature to be a law breaker, so my big concern has been --
or not big, but one of my main concerns has been the complaint or complaints that
come to me - or not to me, to the City Council -- or to the code enforcement people.
Meridian City Council
February 28, 2072
Page 8 of 50
Apparently there was - I have been told three phone calls in October and November.
Is that a verified number, Mr. Chairman?
Hoaglun: Mr. White, I do know there were complaints. I don't know how many there
were.
Friedman: Mr. President, Members of the Council, I don't know a specific number. We
do know there were complaints. We didn't really get into that, because - I mean we do
know there were complaints. That was probably one of the impetuses for our confab
that we had with Mr. White and the code enforcement supervisor, but at that point it
was just looking at the options, because clearly the -the activities that were going on
were not compatible or consistent with the home occupation regulations.
White: So, I am a law breaker and don't want to be. Well, because I'm located
basically in - in amidst commercial properties, I think we need to look at a variance, so
that I can conduct my business and keep me -- I'm not a spring chicken anymore, I
have retired and I like to keep busy and because of the activity and use of my talents
that I have it has been a tremendous outlet for me. I don't make a whole lot of money
at it. I'm not in it for the money. But there have been people that have benefitted from
the money that I do make. There is kids that get to go to camp. There are college kids
in the family that get some tuition help. There has been, a number of neighbors that.
have had need for rent and groceries that an anonymous giver takes care of those
things for them and I wouldn't deny that I may have stepped into something like that
once in awhile. So, it's a possibility that we might down the road here someplace find
a way to identify a person who makes a phone call or a negative report on something
such as me, that we might address it individually or is this something that the privacy
act has kept us from doing?
Hoaglun: Well, anytime there is a code violation and, you know, people can call that in
and say here is what I am observing and, then, the city goes out and takes a look at
that and if there is a violation, then, we have to follow up on that and that's just the
nature of it. And there are instances -- and, unfortunately, it's this way in every
community -- not everyone wants to have a neighborly conversation. They don't want
to know who they are for a reason that is not good. So, that's unfortunate, but that's
just the way some people operate. I know it's not true in your case, but that's --
Bird: I personally would just be thrilled to have somebody come and say I don't like
what you're doing here, I don't like this, this is wrong, can we adjust it. I would work
with anybody that came to me personally and said that. I have got an open mind and I
have made it a habit of being that way. I have got broad shoulders to carry the load
and I have got the will to do what's right.
Hoaglun: I wish everyone was like you, Mr. White. It would be a much better
community. But it, unfortunately, doesn't work that way, so --
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February 28, 2012
Page 9 of 50
White: I have my peace. I'd like to have it happen. Anyway, I have about three or four
letters here I'd like to read that are supporting what I have been doing. I have
numerous people that have stopped by since I have not had anything out for sale since
November. Numerous people have stopped and they catch me out in the yard or in
the driveway and say when are you going to start putting something out again? We
miss it. I think that I have been able to provide an extremely important and a good
service to the neighbors. Here is one letter that I'm going to read and, then, we will --
Hoaglun: Mr. White, I might ask are they fairly short letters or -there is no --
White: They are short.
Hoaglun: There is no ten pages or anything like that?
White: No. No. Nothing -- nothing more than two or three paragraphs.
Hoaglun: Okay. Go ahead.
White: Okay. This one here is from Rich and Sue Altemier. They say that they moved
here a couple years ago from the panhandle where we owned a business for ten
years... My husband met Mr. White and he has,been a .big help since our move here
with his knowledge and in helping out lending my husband some tools, which we didn't
have. We should acknowledge -- he should be acknowledged for his helping hand and
friendliness. He is definitely the welcome -- I can't even talk -- welcoming committee of
Meridian. Nothing unsightly and his property is kept up beautifully. I can't understand
why anyone would want to interfere and put a stop to Mr. White fixing up items and
selling them for a small fee and even giving many of them away to someone that
needs them. That's one. The manager of Walgreen's across the street says that
everything is okay. No complaints. He has no problem with what I'm doing and I have
not had any customers -- anybody come and say that they had a problem with it, so -
Hoaglun: As long as you're not selling prescriptions I think you're okay. Yes.
White: Good point.
Hoaglun: From our police department.
White: All right. Here is another one from
They live on Ten Mile Road also. It has h
was formally notified that he no longer can
fence in the driveway. We wanted to n
Nicky and Vickie -- Stacy and Nicky Vogal.
'en brought to our attention that Mr. White
display items for sale along the front of his
sake mention how we know him and the
thoughts -- our thoughts regarding this situation. We moved into the home directly to
the east of Mr. White on -- in March of 2011. It didn't take him long to come and
extend us a gracious welcome to the neighborhood. Over the past year we have
enjoyed getting to know him and exchange a lot of vegetables out of the garden back
and forth. A good example of his character was last spring -- I will just highlight this
Meridian City Council
February 28, 2012
Page 10 of 50
one. Last spring when we were rototilling the garden, finding that the rototiller that we
had rented wasn't doing the job, he brought his over and -- and gave us a hand and --
and we got the job done. He can often be found working in his garage and helping
other people out. Okay. Now, this one here is from a small child and I really don't
know who the child is. But it's in child handwriting and I think that it's important that we
see that not only adults, but children appreciate what I do. So, I'm going to do my best
to read it. Hi. My name is Chloe Holly. I think he should keep his decorations up,
because all of the work he does makes up a lot of time. The law is in charge, but I
don't know why they would want to shut him down. He takes his time on work and has
his -- his done and he puts it outside. It's so pretty and it's just so beautiful. I hope
that he can keep up the work. Now, here was one that just arrived a little while ago
and it is a short one. It says: To the city. Leave this man alone. He hurts no one.
Worry about real issues. You're truly out of line and out of touch with your citizens.
Shame on you. Mrs. Dee Paige over on Moon Lake Drive. So, we get all kinds.
There is two or three others here. I -- I also have in file 26, 27 other letters that people
have thought that what I was doing was fine.
Hoaglun: If we could, Mr. White -and, Jaycee, I don't know how you want to do this.
If you could get those to her to be entered into the record and, then, I think if you can
just make copies and, then, can get those back to him - I don't know if we can do that
tonight, or,--
White: Well, I have about four others, but I think in essence of time we are going to
dispense with them. If you want to put them in for the record, I have no problem.
Hoaglun: Put them into the record and, then, you have some folks that are signed up
here to speak in favor, so we can go onto those and, then, we can let you come back
and do a summarization and stand for questions if that works for you.
White: Okay. As I said earlier, I think we need to figure out some way to get a
variance, so that I can continue what I'm doing and I don't have the answer, but I'm
willing to work with something that will be amenable to both of us. Okay? So, I think
that -- are there other issues, by the way, besides the display or to my stuff? Is there
anything else that has been brought to your attention that people are unhappy with me
doing? Councilmen?
Hoaglun: Your wife didn't contact us about your snoring or anything so I think we are
good.
White: Yeah, but she will. I hear it every night, so, it's - so, what do we need to do at
this point?
Hoaglun: Well, at this point, Mr. White, what we would like to do is call up the folks
who have signed up to testify and they are on your behalf, so I think that's a good thing
for you. We will listen to them and, like I said, we will have you come back and we can
-- we can go from there.
Meridian City Council
February 2S, 2012
Page 11 of 50
White: I'm not as nervous now as I was when I started.
Hoaglun: It wasn't that bad, was it?
White: No, you didn't bite at all
Hoaglun: We do have people signed up for this public hearing. First on the list
Joseph Manor. If you want to speak come on up. If you want to indicate that you're
just in favor of his appeal you can do that, but if you want to speak come on up.
Name and address for the record, please.
Manor: Okay. Council Members, I'm for Mr. White and his cause and I live at 2894
West Raven Hurst Street in Meridian, Idaho. We have known Mr. White for seven
years - we moved here and --
Nary: Your name, sir, for the record
Manor: Pardon?
Nary: Your name.
Manor: Joseph Manor. M-a-n-o-r. We have moved here over seven years ago and
one of the first points of contact also was Mr. White, because moving you need items
and he had very neat displays at his property and we were able to use a few items,
shelving and such. We think it's very unique what he does. I think that in working with
him a couple times he actually takes items from other locations and areas that would
probably be a distraction or an ugly nature to our community and he has refurbished
them and cleaned up those areas and actually done something wonderful with it. Our
personal experience - and I represent my family of ten -- he is a very good neighbor of
great character, great initiative, a fine example to our children and what you can do if
you put your mind to something. We live in -out of Ustick-Ten Mile intersection,
basically, and it's very pleasing to us as parents that our children of proper age bike
down to Albertson's or something or down to the bank or something to -- even
Walgreen's, the two safest points of contact. We consider our number one the fire
station on the way down the road and, then, also Mr. White and it used to be that he
was out there quite actively involved in -- with people and discussing the few items he
put out. I personally don't recall him having more than five items out, unless he's
having a yard sale or whatever and very neat, very organized right in front of his
garage, straight in a line. But that's -- it's a safe point. You like a community where
you can feel like your kids can be okay if they get a flat tire on their bicycle and was a
guy to help out or a guy to be able to call from his house. Him and his wife are
upstanding citizens. I'd like to recognize that. So, we appreciate what he does. I think
he tries to make everyone happy and move as much merchandise to his side yard,
which, you know, if you're driving out of the neighbor across the street from him, I
couldn't see how that would affect them whatsoever to the appearance of the house.
Meridian City Council
February 28, 2012
Page 12 of 50
His house is well groomed, his - he has antiques, which are interesting and his hedges
are trimmed. His history is being a very good I guess custodial or maintenance
worker, which is a -- you know, he knows what he's doing and he's been very helpful
to us. Also helped us borrow of few things at times and helped us figure out a few
problems, so I think he is a beacon in our community and I would appreciate your
working with him and if there is anything we can do to help this process get along, we
would like to see that happen. So, we thank you for your consideration, Council.
Hoaglun: Okay. Any questions from Council?
Rountree: I have none.
Bird: I have none.
Hoaglun: Mr. - is it Manor? Manor? Just one quick. On Ravenhurst, is that part of
the subdivision?
Manor: Ravenhurst is a candlelight subdivision. It's actually -it's on the corner of
Ustick and Ten Mile. We are probably the farthest away from them -- between Cherry
and Ustick, but which --since you asked me the question, I have the consideration that
I see in Mr. White's location is that he's kind of a house standing alone there, which,. in
the business aspect is that he's not affecting -- the way I see it he's not affecting any
neighborhood right here either, which is a - an interesting place for his house to be.
I'm sure it outdates probably most of the subdivisions around him, so -- we are not
directed -directly affected by him as far as the neighborhood, but his - I mean his
house extends on the left side just along the fence into another neighborhood and that
we are not --
Hoaglun: I wanted to take this opportunity -where you're located, because I think that
- your street cuts through from Ustick to Ten Mile, does it not? That goes all the way
through?
Manor: It goes -- well, our subdivision is very - it enters in in on -- enter in on Ten Mile
and it exits out onto Ustick.
Hoaglun: I was just wondering if you had any problems with people cutting through
your area yet with construction that started on that intersection yet.
Manor: Honestly, I have not heard, but I'm kind of -- I'm -- this is the intersection, we
are in the back corner, so it wouldn't affect us directly.
Hoaglun: Okay.
Manor: They wouldn't come around our neighborhood.
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February 28, 2012
Page 13 of 50
Hoaglun: I just wanted to take that opportunity while - I thought that's where you were,
to see if that was a problem yet, so -
Manor: Thank you for asking.
Hoaglun: Okay. Thank you.
Bird: Thank you.
Hoaglun: Next up we ever Jack Boggetti.
Boggetti: Boggetti.
Hoaglun: Boggetti. You want to come up.
Boggetti: I'd love to. Thanks. Well, lappreciate -- I'm Jack Boggetti. My wife and I
live at 2449 North Maxie Way, which is in the Fieldstone Subdivision. The backyard of
our house backs up to the east side of the Chateau Park there. Nice location. We like
it there. We moved there about 12 years ago and so like you we have watched that
Cherry Lane -Ten Mile intersection become more and more commercial. If I
remember .right, when we first ,moved .there I think the Albertson's about the only.,
commercial establishment there and, then, there was the doctors office on what would
be the northwest corner that mysteriously has remained empty. I don't -- I don't
understand that, but I guess that's another issue. And so like you, you know, we have
watched the bank come in, we watched Walgreen's come in, we watched St. AI's
medical facility we have been grateful for all of those developments. The addition of
the Ten Mile interchange has been another real blessing in that community and so
every one of the developments -commercial developments that we have seen come
in there has benefitted us and provided a service for us in some way and I'm here to
speak strongly in support of Lee's appeal to be able to continue doing that, because in
the same way as Albertson's and the bank, which we shop at Albertson's, we bank at
the bank, we buy things at the drugstore - in the same way that each of them has
provided a service to the neighborhood that we live in, I feel like Lee has done the
same thing. And so, you know, maybe a quick personal example, if you will indulge
me for a minute. I have numerous interests. One of them is old Jeeps. One of my old
Jeeps is a 1953 Willys M38A1 Army jeep. Now, you may not be familiar with them, but
underneath the hood is a little hook, a little bracket, and that little bracket is there for a
shovel that was designed specifically for that Jeep. There is no other -- I can't go to
Lowe's to buy it. I have to find a shovel that fits that Jeep. So, I just -and this was a
number of years ago. I just happened to stop by Lee's place and I said, Lee, I have
got this old Jeep I need a shovel. He said I think I know what I can do for you. Less
than a week later I stopped by again. He found me an original Korean War era shovel
that fits my Jeep and it's still there to that day. And so, yeah, as I think about providing
a service to the community, that's the kind of a service he provides. He provides us
with an alternative to purchasing things we might not able to get locally. You know, I
would also say that I'm not in the least offended by him conducting his business there.
Meridian City Council
February 28, 2012
Page 14 of 50
You know, I think it's consistent with the commercial nature of that community. Others
have already stated in letters and here in testimony, he does a wonderful job, keeps
his yard up, it's attractive, it's not a nuisance. I understand, as Mr. Friedman said, you
know, there are rules and regulations and we respect them and we appreciate them.
We appreciate the work that you have to do also as City Council members. I
understand that you have been -you have probably received some complaints - at
least it's stated that you have received some complaints on -- on what Lee does there,
but I guess I would ask you if you have ever made any decision that would have done
anything that you didn't get at least one complaint on as a member of this Council. I
have a feeling you may have gotten one or two.
Hoag lu n: Occasionally.
Boggetti: I understand that. And that's not to excuse the person's responsibility to
follow the law. We understand that the law still applies. I'd just encourage you to do
what Lee has asked you to do and do what other community members have asked you
to do, find some way to let this man continue doing what does, because from my own
personal perspective he provides a service for that community that is unique and -
Hoaglun: You bring up a good point, Mr. Boggetti. Let me tell you the struggle I have.
His property is unique., It's a unique location. But the zoning is still residential and
that's my struggle I have is if I go, okay, we will let him do what he wants to do at this
property, because it's unique, but, then, I have to apply that standard to everyone else
that comes in and does the same thing and what if it's your neighbor and people don't
want that in the neighborhood, they don't -- that's why we have only four yard sales per
year, because people got tired of perpetual yard sales in front of their neighbor across
the street and the traffic it generated. That's my struggle. It's not that he's a bad guy
or that, you know, he shouldn't be doing this he. Doesn't -he's not providing a
service. He does. But it's that struggle of, okay, if we say yes to this, then, it's going to
be in your neighborhood, the person across the street and now all of sudden you're
going, wait a minute, I'm tired of the traffic, I'm tired -- and that's -that's where the
struggle is. How do we reconcile that, but at the same time recognize this is a unique
piece of property, it's not the normal subdivision type of thing. So, that's -that's where
I am on that. So, that's - I appreciate your testimony. We are glad to know what type
of person he is and that he's providing a service, but at the same time I have to think
about the whole community and those folks out there who would have to put up with
that if that was in their neighborhood right next to them. But, again, it's a little bit of
apples and oranges, but when it comes to our rules, the zoning is the same, we have
to take that as being equal and that's the struggle we have here is seeing is there a
way we can find some middle ground, as Mr. Lee has asked, that's -that's -for me
that's where the struggle is, so -- you bring up some good points.
Boggetti: Well, thanks. And so do you. And I -- you know, I appreciate the fact that,
you know, you do have a responsibility to represent all the citizens and I would say that
from our perspective we are grateful to be here in Meridian. As I said, we have been
here for 12 years and we like it here. And part of the reason we like it here is because
Meridian City Council
February 28, 2012
Page 15 of 50
of the nature of the community and I appreciate the difficult position you have. I would
just ask you to focus on - on two things that I think we both said -- at least I said, a
service to the community. He does provide a service to the community, more than just
shovels for some old guy who like old Jeeps I might add. And -and the other is
unique. It is unique and that is certainly a very commercial area and becoming busier
all the time, you know, as -- as we try to -- as we notice as we try to leave Chateau and
turn -- especially turn south on Ten Mile we notice how much more populated and how
much more commercial that area is. So, with that I will say thanks -- thanks for letting
citizens come in and share their opinion and thanks for the good work that you do. I
know it's difficult, I know there is no easy answer and I know that you may get a
complaint or two no matter what you do.
Hoaglun: That's right.
Boggetti: So, we appreciate it.
Hoaglun: Thank you.
Boggetti: Thank you much very.
Hoaglun: ,Next up have Barbara Morrison. Signed, up in favor.. Give your name and
address.
Morrison: Hi. My name is Barbara Morrison and this is my son Luciano and we live at
3738 West Bedrock Drive in Meridian.
Hoaglun: All right. Thank you. Go ahead.
Morrison: We live flip flop from the other fellow, so traffic doesn't affect us either yet. I
skipped speech class in college, so this is a little nerve racking for me, but it's really
important that I stand up for Lee and Barbara White. They are exceptional people. My
son was one of the kids that were able to do the -the yard sale and I don't know if he
will talk to you, but he had an amazing time and he was so excited with his 15 or 30
dollars that he made and he just really looks up to Lee and as the other fellow said
about the safe places between my house, I feel, and Albertson's are the fire
department and if you have any problem stop by and Lee will help you. So, that's,
basically -- I want to make sure that Lee -- keep Lee and Barbara doing what they do,
because they do provide aunique - a unique service, because we don't have many
people that do that in any community. It's very rare that you see someone who gets
anyone to get out of their car and anytime I see Lee or Barbara I'm like, honk honk, we
stop, we visit, and I think what Lee said about it, it's not about the money, I think that's
absolutely true. It's about having friendship with people and he is our friend.
Hoaglun: Okay. Thank you. Luciano, do you have anything to add? No. Okay.
Morrison: Thank you.
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February 28, 2012
Page 16 of 50
Hoaglun: Thank you. And Luciano Contreras was signed up, but -- and his mother
spoke for him. So, we have next Nicole Amy? Did I get that right? All right.
It's the phonics I had in grade school.
Amy: As a teacher I appreciate that. Nicole Amy. I live at 4010 West Moon Lake
Street in the Lakes at Cherry Lane Subdivision. I have lived here for now almost three
years. I left California because -well, all -all the teachers left our jobs. My family has
lived up here for many years in Meridian. The first time I came to visit the first thing I
noticed was the sign on the fence that said I replace shovel handles and I instantly just
smiled. I thought who does that anymore. Who is that helpful? Who -who doesn't
just say chuck it and go to Lowe's. Chuck it and go to Home Depot. And, then, the
other things that he does on that list I'm like do people that own those things, what
would they do. Yes, there are pick axes still out there. Yes, there are shovels and pick
axes. And rather than throwing them in the trash, creating more useless garbage to
pollute the planet, this is a man who cares enough about his neighbors to say this -- I
can do this for you and, hey, if you want a little something - if you want to give me a
little something, that's fine. I had the pleasure only once of meeting Mr. White and it
was a friend of mine - we were texting on our cell phones last summer, we were
walking by and my friend - my best friend, who I'm also speaking for had, had to have
a picture taken in front of that sign and he has shared that and so many people back
home in California have just been in awe of that and they have become aware -
because California -- and I couldn't tell you two of my neighbor's names in California,
but this is a man who encourages people to be good neighbors. He encourages a
sense of community. He's not hurting anyone. He's not hurting any local businesses.
I'm sure Lowe's doesn't need the 20 bucks for a shovel. They have plenty of money.
He helps kids. I have seen his product. It doesn't interfere with any esthetics of his
home. It doesn't -- I have never seen cars backing up like they do when Christmas
lights are on display and causing a traffic jam. He's not interfering with anything. He's
not hurting anyone. And I understand that you can't say, well, it's okay for one person
and not another. My father was a city councilman back in California.
Hoaglun: And everyone loved him, I'm sure.
Amy: Yeah. Right. Okay. But this is -- I don't think they are going to be anybody else
who is going to say -- have a sign on their fence that says I replace shovel handles or I
want to help your kids develop character. It's not something that a lot of people are out
there doing. It's not a talent, except for the care charge. I do that all the time. It's not
a talent a lot of people have. It's not something a lot of people have time to do. This is
a man who devotes his time, because he has it and loves doing it and that's only
benefitting the community and, yes, there are laws and, trust me, I know the laws and I
am kind of a law breaker. I only say that for what I believe in. If I had to get arrested
for this man, even though I have only met him once, I would, because I believe in what
he's doing. And I know that there is the A's, the B's, the C's. There is the what if's, the
what if's. There is, well, over here we have -- and, then, vice-versa we have.-- but,
honestly, I don't think you're going to have someone come up. If you approve this
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February 28, 2012
Page 17 of 50
man's appeal you're not going to have someone else come up to you in a year, five
years, ten years that says, hi, I just moved in, I want to replace shovel handles. I want
to build bird houses. I want to make - I want to make these beautiful butten`lies to sell
them to kids. Nobody is going to do that. I mean there are children who sell
lemonade. That's a service. But we don't make them get a business permit. I make
cookies. I don't have a business for it. But I do give them away. If people want to give
me five bucks for material I'm not going to say no, I'm an out of work teacher. So, my
only point -well, certainly I have many. This is a good man. He's not hurting
anybody. He's not truly breaking laws. He's not murdering. He's not stealing. He's
providing a service. He's being a good neighbor and, really, that's something that we
should emulate instead of punish. But I know the laws, but, really, he's not hurting
anybody. He's a good man. And I happen to love driving by Ten Mile -driving down
Ten Mile to go home and seeing these really colortul bird houses or these beautiful
butterflies. It's my regret that I haven't stopped. But he isn't usually out there when I
drive by. It's pretty late. Thank you very much.
Hoaglun: Thank you, Nicole. Any questions?
Bird: I have none.
.Hoaglun; Okay.. Thank you.. That's. all that we have had sign up,to testify. Is there
anybody else in the audience who would like to say anything? Come on up, sir.
You know the drill I think by now. Name and address.
Trampleasure: Dennis Trampleasure. I live at 3565 West Tupelo Court.
Hoaglun: I'm sorry. Again what was the last name?
Trampleasure: Trampleasure. T-r-a-m pleasure. It's all one word.
Hoaglun: Great. Thank you.
Trampleasure: You bet you. And I went to a school called being tactful, but I didn't
pass, so if I say something that offends somebody, I'm really trying not to. But we
have lived in our house almost 20 years. This year will be 20 years. We built our
house. We even let a neighbor use our compressor when they were building their
house years ago and it was a good community spirit. We had about 9,200 people then
and - I guess you don't need a history lesson, you probably have lots of figures. I
guess really the bottom line is -what Mr. White is doing is very minimal and it really
assists in our neighborhood, it assists in our community. And it's kind of an icon. You
know, I have lived in the same house, like I said, almost 20 years and I try to describe
to people how to get to my house. Ten Mile, Cherry Lane -have you seen that guy's
lot that looks like Sanford and Son used to look like? I know who you mean.
Everybody knows him. People have shopped at his place. Lots and lots of people.
And I think when you're shopping, you patronize them, you're kind of endorsing them.
So, a lot of respect for Meridian, which is the best place in the world -- and I mean that
Meridian City Council
February 28, 2012
Page 18 of 50
with my heart -- to live. It's the most wonderful place and we have great people. I
would hope that you and the rest of the Council can find a way to find some middle
ground to allow him to sell his products. And out of much respect I ask that. Thank
you.
Hoaglun: Thank you, Dennis. Any questions for Dennis? Thank you.
Trampleasure: Thank you.
Hoaglun: Anyone else that's not signed up? Okay. Mr. White, call you back up here.
It's no longer an appeal, you have been nominated for man of the year, so --
White: I'm speechless.
Hoaglun: Usually they start out: On behalf of the academy we thank you - no. It's not
White: Yeah. Don't give me any awards. No, I -- I'm speechless that so many people
think that I'm an okay guy. Yard sales. The things I do aren't becoming of yard sales.
I get a chest of drawers that's got a broken door, I repair it and rebuild it. I can't store it
for an extended period of time so I can have a yard sale. Space is limited. Most of the
things that J rebuild, people aren't going,to be buying at yard sales. t just is one of,
those things. They are looking for bargains. I give them bargains all right. But it's a
different type of clientele that I deal with that stop by and chat with me. I have - I have
had more enjoyment visiting with people and quote, unquote, negotiating with things
that I have repaired and they are now out to be reused. They have been kept out of
the landfill. So, let's come to some kind of conclusion here that I'm not going to be
breaking the law and I can still do what I'm doing. I have got an offer -- or not an offer.
I have got a suggestion or a thought or two that might be acceptable and maybe not. I
think that there is possibly a little problem where I'm located - see, I have got a little
space six -six feet by 30 feet that I have been using and that's 19 feet from
commercial property. But it's right on the edge of a driveway going into Walgreens.
Hoaglun: And that's the one, if I might interrupt, if you're coming out of Walgreens that
would be right there and if you turn --
White: Yeah. Right there. They can kick dirt onto my property. And a lady did
recently run through the fence and hit the side of the house, but that's another story. I
would be willing to move my display to the east a little ways and put it up there. That
way we are not interfering with traffic coming out of Walgreens, which I think may have
been one of these people's complaints. I don't know for certain. Nobody will tell me. I
can't get an answer. If that is a problem I will move it to the east. I have got
permission to use that -- half of that driveway from my neighbor in the back. That way
we would be out of the line of fire and should be one way of continuing what I'm doing.
I would -- at that point if that is the case, Iwould -- either myself or ask the city to fix
me a sign that says recycled items for sale with that arrow pointing this way and placed
Meridian City Council
February 28, 2012
Page 19 of 50
right at the edge of my property. That would be workable for me. Would it be
workable for the Council? The city.
Hoaglun: Well, I'll ask Pete to kind of weigh in. My thinking on this -- what we get into
is a discussion of what a business looks like. Signage. Where things are located -
White: Okay. I can go without a sign.
Hoaglun: You know -- and, Pete, I was thinking is there a middle ground here. I mean
what -- I guess let me go back before you comment, Pete. I guess you fix things. You
know, I mean it sounds like you're very good at that. You find things. You fix things.
White: There is room for them right there to prove that I can do it.
Hoaglun: Yeah. You have got all your fingers, though.
White: Yeah. But they are beat up.
Hoaglun: Okay. For the sale purposes that's four times a year when you're going to
have -- does that just not -- I know you had stuff out before. I remember when I drive
by you'd have stuff out there and --
White: Have you ever been offended by -does it look a mess when you go by?
Hoaglun: I wasn't offended by it, but it's not typical for a residential house. I mean
that's --
White: Yeah. And this -and this wasn't commercial.
Hoaglun: And that's what I said earlier about your property is it is a unique location,
because you're really not in a subdivision, as you mentioned earlier, and it's -- it is right
on that boundary where Walgreens is right there. I mean if we could wave a magic
wand and say that -- your house and the neighbor's house behind you has got this
type of zoning and they could do certain things, that might be the way to do it. But
there is a process we have to go through to get to that point and I don't know if you
would want to be zoned what we could all agree to if there was even agreement on
that, because it's still residential and we have a rural urban transition. This is almost
like a residential transition and it's going to be property I think ten years from now
that's going to be an interesting parcel and it's --
White: There is going to be less of it if Ten Mile widens, so, then, what do we do?
Hoaglun: And that's another consideration. Yeah. What do we do, so --
White: I won't even be able to live in it if they take ten - or 15 feet from me .
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February 28, 2012
Page 20 of 50
Hoaglun: And we are not sure -- we haven't seen the drawings or the plans on exactly
what that will -where they are going with that road, because there is - it gets pretty
tight through some of those established areas and I'm not sure how they are going to
do that, so that remains to be seen, so --
White: What did Mr. Friedman say? Middle ground. Is he --
Hoaglun: Pete, is there -- I understand zoning, but not as well as people who work in
the Planning Department. Do we have anything that's available to us?
Friedman: Thank you, Council President Hoaglun, Members of the Council. No, in a
way we don't really have a residential commercial zoning designation. The UDC -
Unified Development Code -- did make some provisions to allow a certain degree of
businesses and commerce to take place out of residential properties and structures
and those are the standards that we use to measure the applications and -- which are
the subjects of the hearing tonight. Short of that in the code right now the closest you
would come is the neighborhood commercial designation and, you know, that -you
get into everything that you would expect with commercial development. So, I hate to
toss it back to you, but that's exactly where we are tonight. When Mr. White and I were
discussing this over the past few months I did say - or suggested, you know, these are
the standards that I have to review the applications by and, you know, when you go to
Council it would be helpful if you could come with some suggestions on how to meet
halfway. So, you know, we -- as you know we try to be solution oriented and I thought,
well, maybe -- you know, maybe it's -- put the goods in at the end of every day. You
know, signing, something like that. I don't know. I don't have an answer. You know,
I'm not the one up there tonight. So, to answer your question, we don't really have --
short of commercial zoning on the property -- then you get into a lot of the other things
that would be much more onerous for Mr. White. Parking requirements, striped
parking, and things like that. Landscaping, that sort of thing.
Hoaglun: And I guess, Pete, as further -- we don't -the city doesn't regulate -
someone has some bikes for sale and they wheel them out during the day, you drive
by, oh, I could buy a bike, you know. They have a bike for sale. It's not there in the
evening. Might be out there for a couple day and someone buys it, but it's -it's not out
there permanently. I mean we don't -- we don't regulate that activity as far as I'm
aware.
Friedman: No. Council President Hoaglun, Members of the Council, I mean if
somebody you know, a kid's outgrown a bike or decides that, you know, rather use the
car than the bike and decides, well, I'm not going to donate it, I will just throw it out
there for sale and that's just an individual selling personal property. Again, the yard
sale provisions that we have -those things are more typical of a situation when people
want to dispose of some of the household goods that they have acquired over the
years and we even have provisions for that to occur four times a year for up three days
per occurrence. You know, somebody throws a couple of bikes out for sale, maybe
they pick them up somewhere. It's not something that, you know, our code
Meridian City Council
February 28, 2012
Page 21 of 50
enforcement people are actively looking for and the other staff are actively looking for.
Like I said, we have certain provisions at this point.
Hoaglun: Okay. Thank you.
White: They call that between a rock and a hard spot?
Hoaglun: Oh, absolutely.
White: That's where I'm at.
Nary: Mr. President?
Hoaglun: So are we. Bill.
White: I want to do something -
Hoaglun: Mr. White, we will hear from our lawyer here.
Nary: Mr. President, you know, I have been - I have been sitting here trying to figure
out some middle ground from what you guys were talking. about. ,Unfortunately, the
thing we have today in the code is -- I think Mr. White's type of business would
probably be okay in our Old Town District, because our Old Town District has a lot
more fluidity on what's allowed and where he's at isn't that. But you have identified I
think where the problem is is that what Mr. Friedman and Planning have to go by and
what the Uniform Development Code spells out does deal with the very typical urban
development that's occurred in our city, both older ones in the '60s and '70s and newer
ones within the last ten or 15 years. The subdivision that's immediately behind Mr.
White's residence there on Ten Mile is a more traditional development. It doesn't have
- it may or may not may have an HOA any longer, but they have standards they are
required to build that. Mr. White's, essentially, an out parcel to that type of subdivision.
So, we don't have a standard other than the same standards that applies everywhere
and you have identified the problem is that what Mr. White's business is doing where
he's currently located doesn't fit into our standards and, Mr. White, it doesn't have
anything to do with the quality what you do at your place. I think what Council
President Hoaglun is trying to deal with -- or address is not everybody is going to run
their business like you do in a neighborhood and so the issue the city has is -- if they
were all like you nobody would care, because everybody would be fine with it, but they
are not all like you, unfortunately, and there are people that are selling junk, old cars,
you know, garbage on their lawn all the time and that's a problem. So, trying to deal
with that with a good quality development -good quality business like you're running,
versus everyone, is the challenge and I guess where we are sort of stuck at the
moment, Council, is the standards that we have really work very well universally for all
of the neighborhoods, but Mr. White's parcel is not really like that. Now, I don't know
how many of those types of transitional residential units -- I mean, you know, Mr. White
at some point may wish to sell his property and my guess is whoever buys it is not
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February 28, 2012
Page 22 of 50
going to want to live there, they are going to want to sell it or make it into a commercial
property. So, I guess the quandary I have is that without us establishing a new
standard we really don't have an in between, but you certainly have the ability to direct
that we create a standard to address these types of properties that are these
transitional ones, I just don't know how many there are. I mean that may be a fairly
simple process, but it also may be a very time consuming process and that doesn't
help Mr. White necessarily. The -- you know, again, I think, Mr. White, one of the
things, too, is that you're not here just because some people didn't like the looks of
your property, it really is - it just doesn't fit into the rules we set up for everybody and
that's where I think we are trying to balance between the two. But in looking at it, I
mean I would agree with Mr. Friedman, we currently don't have an ordinance that
would really fit for the living and commercial enterprise that Mr. White wants to operate
on his property. I mean the -the attached garage appears to be one of the problems
where the accessory unit is not attached to the building, is -- under our ordinance is
prohibited, because now it's operating like a separate unit or a separate store on
somebody's property and that's where the fabrication occurs and that's where all that
occurs and that makes sense, but it doesn't fit. So, I'm not sure how to help you,
Council, other than without us creating a new standard of something else, which you
have the power to do if you wish, it just may be time consuming to do that.
Hoaglun; Thank you, Mr. Nary.
Bird: Mr. President?
Hoaglun: Councilman Bird.
Bird: Mr. White, I'm glad you're in our community. You do a great service. And I'm
really between a rock and a hard place. If I lived next to you you wouldn't bother me at
all. But we have got to look out for the other 70,000 people that -- and in your zone it
don't allow that. I know some of these people that live in subdivisions got up here and
testified that it didn't bother them, but they had three or four of the houses there people
redoing furniture or something and setting it out on their driveway and stuff day in and
day out and had cars coming it might have a different philosophy on it. What you do is
great, but I -- the problem I see with us -- like I said, if it was me no problem at all. It's
the other people that we represent and pretty soon we will have everybody wanting to
do that stuff out of their house. Trust me, if one - if one gets by we will have more.
White: So, what do we do?
Bird: That's what I'm trying to figure out.
White: That's why I'm here tonight. I want to keep doing what I'm doing. Testimony
has been given that I'm not a bad guy. I'm not a law breaker. In fact, I almost cried.
Bird: You're an honest --
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February 28, 2012
Page 23 of 50
White: But I want to keep doing -- keep busy. I'm not a spring chicken anymore
and --
Bird: Neither am I, but-
White: I got you a few years. Where do we go? I can offer another suggestion, but
we are going to run into the same barbed wire fence.
Bird: Mr. White, how do we -the next person comes in that's wanting to do the same
thing and he isn't -- as Councilman Hoaglun said, he isn't doing it the right way or, you
know, doing it like you are. Instead of having five or six get up and stand up and say
how good he is, they get up and say we want him out of there. He says you have
already allowed it in that zoning. How do we -how do we rectify that? We are setting
a precedent is my -that's my biggest fear. Don't get me wrong, I want to work with
you.
White: Well, lappreciate -
Bird: And if you lived next to me it wouldn't bother me at all. But we can sit here and
say, oh, no, it's not going to happen, nobody is going to come in or nobody is going to
do this or something. like that, but sure enough it is going to happen. I .don't know. We
are - we are condoning breaking the law is what it is. Breaking our ordinance is what I
look at it as.
Hoaglun: If I - Mr. White -- Bill, is there a way to -for an accessory use permit, is
there a way to give an approval with conditions that are delineated strictly to how a
parcel is situated or do we get ourselves in trouble on something like that? Located
next to a commercial, not part of our subdivision, no homeowners association, so on
and so forth. Is there a way to do that or are we just asking for trouble down the road?
And I know this is kind of off the top of the head stuff, but -
Nary: Yes and yes. Yeah.
Hoaglun: That's a lawyer for you, folks.
Nary: What I - I guess what we could do, Council, if you would like - and I know Mr.
White has dealt a lot with Planning, but we could certainly take one more opportunity to
see if there is some way to fit what he's doing. Because a lot of - I mean there is
really four things that have been identified that really violate our code in the accessory
use. I mean -- and Mr. Friedman has already outlined them. Basically, the display of
the merchandise, which would mean -- one of the suggestions that planning had made
was to remove the merchandise daily, to put it away, so that's a possibility to consider.
The next three all deal with the accessory structure and I don't know if there is a way to
rectify that dilemma, but we could certainly consider that, but to answer the second
part of your question, yes, I mean you folks have identified exactly the problem is that
Mr. White is a fairly unique circumstance and we could certainly look at that as a
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February 28, 2012
Page 24 of 50
possibility, because I don't think there is a lot of these, but there probably certainly are.
I think we have approved over the last ten years a number of outparcels to
subdivisions. They owned the property. They sell the back for the subdivision. They
lived in the portion that's the transition piece. We haven't ever addressed those,
because that issue hasn't come before you to address. Is that something on a parallel
track to look at? We could certainly look at something like that. But we could certainly
sit down one more time with Mr. White and set this over for a week and see if we can
reach some other resolution that might be a way and Mr. White certainly is willing to try
to figure out something to make it workable and we could certainly try.
Hoaglun: Okay. Any other comments from Mr. Council?
Rountree: Mr. Hoaglun. Question for Pete. Pete, with the outbuildings there is an
issue, because it is not the residence. If they were connected in some fashion would
that particular issue go away?
Friedman: Members of the Council, Council Member Rountree, that's correct
Rountree: All right. Thank you. Mr. White's probably cringing, because I'm going to
speak, because he particularly has made it known that he's not particularly in favor of
M[. Rountree, but --
White: I knew that was going to come up.
Rountree: That's okay. That's okay, because this is -- that's the world we live in and I
really much appreciate somebody that has an opinion and willing to share it. I'm going
to go through a list of conditions and it might make it work and some of them are going
to be onerous possibly. Some of them might be a challenge to you and you might
want to really get in and do it. But I'm looking at what the issues are with respect to
how you're a residential zone and you're running a business and we don't want to do
this, because, honestly, every time we make a good faith effort on something like this
we get burned. I have done this for 12 years and I have seen it more times than not.
So, I have got some conditions here and you may or may not like them, but I think we
can probably get maybe through some of these issues with them. First off, nothing in
the front yard that relates to sales, including signs. On your back garage, a separate
facility, a professional sign that says nice guy lives here, handyman, Mr. White's fun
experience, whatever. Whatever you might want to put on it. But it's professional. It's
not hand painted and it's not done with stencil and all that. And that would meet our
sign code, so you don't get balled up in that. Material stored in your backyard behind a
fence that would not allow vision and I don't care what size, but I'm suggesting that on
the fence, which you might look at, is creating atunnel -- a tunnel from your home to
that garage that might have a canvas top, it might have a vine covering it. It might
have something that connects your structures, so they are not separate, but the goods
you use sell would be stored in the evening and that any approval granted for this
particular application be subject to revocation by the city with a 30 day notice and it
would not go with the property if it were sold. So, those are the kinds of things -- you
Meridian City Council
February 28, 2012
Page 25 of 50
asked for the kinds of things that might make it possible. Those are the kinds of things
that I think might make it possible. Beyond that we are governed by the ordinances we
are governed by and we have to make those -- have to make decisions as Mr. Hoaglun
explained. We really have no basis to vary that, as near as I can tell from the
information I have heard. So, you can address the kinds of things I have said,
whether, you know, it's something you'd consider or not, but I'd just throw those out for
leading the discussion.
Hoaglun: Mr. White, response? Want me to run through the conditions again? I didn't
know if you got them all.
White: Am I on?
Hoaglun: Yes.
White: I have already got the two buildings connected. There is a telephone wire that
goes from one to the other. That's connected.
Hoaglun: You might need a little more, but I think Councilman Rountree has given you
some latitude on that, what connection --
White: Yeah. I'm stretching it.
Hoaglun: -- can be. I don't think we can quite stretch it that far, so --
White: The probability -- possibility of putting a tunnel or even a canvas between the
two, that doesn't really make good sense, even though it may be something that quill
make it fly. The wind comes through there pretty -- pretty hard and that would not be
something that I could put across the sidewalk that goes from the house to the shop.
It's a good idea, but I think in realistic terms it's not feasible that part of it. The sign --
the sign on the back shop I have no problem with, just as long as I get Meridian city to
make it.
Hoaglun: Mr. White, I'm finding out how your customers -- they have to negotiate with
you, don't they.
White: They do.
Hoaglun: They do. Yes.
White: Oh, yeah, you know, you throw out something and if they bite, fine. If it doesn't
you back off.
Hoaglun: You move on. You must be -- if you have a satellite or something you must
watch Pawn Stars or something, you know, and can kind of negotiate with everyone.
Meridian City Council
February 28, 2012
Page 26 of 50
White: Oh, there is a couple items there that are workable. What happens -- now, he
said something about the front yard. Very few times do I put anything out in the front
yard. It's right there are at the fence on the south side.
Hoaglun: Let me -- if you would, Mr. White, let me go through these again, so we all
have them and Councilman Rountree make sure I don't miss anything here. Nothing
in the front yard related to sales, that includes signs, but a professional sign would be
allowed on the back garage. Materials would have to be stored in the backyard and I
don't know if that backyard would mean that side where he was discussing that,
because that -- that is his backyard, but it's also a side yard. That there be a
connection between the house and the garage. If it was my wife she would take that
opportunity to say I want that grape arbor up now. So, she would take advantage of
that. To me that's a covered deal. But the goods would be stored in the evening and if
there was any violation of any of this there would be a 30 day notice and a revocation
and it does not go with the property if you were to sell the property. Did I capture those
correctly, Councilman?
Rountree: Very good.
White: That last part I think is good, because not everybody is going to be a Lee
White. That just is the way life is. ,
Hoaglun: Yeah.
White: And that probably is a good thing. Storing the items or taking them in in the
evening. For the most part I do. Have been. Pull them off of the side into my yard
and quite often put a cover over them. But I have been, likewise, very fortunate in
nobody has come and destroyed or stolen. I've had one item or two -- maybe two
items stolen that I have had out. So, people have been extremely good to me. I can --
I have no problem with bringing them in, covering them up for the night. What about
this idea. Display items for two days, three days, one week, nothing for four or five
days and, then, a four day week?
Hoaglun: Well, Mr. White, what --
Bird: And we are breaking the law.
Hoaglun: Yeah. We get into that -- that ordinance. The four days -- I mean the three
days -- what we have in our yard sale you can do that four times for up to three days in
length; is that correct, Pete, or Mr. Nary?
Nary: Yes. Four times.
Hoaglun: Four times in a calendar, up to three days in length. So, you could under
yard sale ordinance do four sales a year have your material out there for three days
and call it a yard sale on top of -- on top of something that we might approve, is my
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February 28, 2012
Page 27 of 50
understanding, because you still could do that four times a year, even if -- even if you
were to do something like this, if we were to grant the accessory use permit with the
conditions and maybe not all of Council would agree to these conditions and that's
something we have to work out, but that is also an option still available to you on top of
-- if there was something we could come up with and that's -- that's -- the difficulty i§ --
and maybe this is something we -- we do continue and have Planning sit down and
scratch their heads and figure out is -- is there something here, are we looking at city
wide, are these conditions something that we can put into place that work for this
particular property, because that -- really, Mr. White, you're saving grace for me -- if
you were in the middle of the subdivision I would be -- I'm sorry, you're a great guy, but
we can't do this. The saving thing is about this property is in a unique location and that
really is what makes me give pause from saying we just -- we just can't do it. Our
codes just don't allow what you're asking to do. But because this property is unique in
the fact that these people and the Mayor and staff that you hear from are all people
that have the attitude of how can we do it, as opposed to, no, we just do that here,
which is a good thing about this community. Let's see if there is a way we can try to
make it work. The down side is sometimes it's a lot of work to get to that point and
sometimes we haven't been able to, but we always give it our best shot. So that is an
option we can give -- think about it for a week, work on it, we can vote on it now, it's --
it's really up to the Council.
White: Let me ask one further question.
Hoaglun: Go ahead, Mr. White.
Bird: What if I follow part of Councilman Rountree's suggestion, move everything back
to -- in front of the repair garage shop off of the street and totally enclosed, am I going
to be able to do that? And I'd have to put a sign up of some nature along my fence
indicating that recycled items would be for sale or something like that back at my shop.
Hoaglun: That's a good question. I think it runs afoul of item two on the letter you
received from Mr. Friedman. I'm not sure. And, Pete, if you could take a look at that.
But also ask -- I do need to ask -- we have that if it's detached, it doesn't count and can
you fill us in a little bit more on why that is?
Friedman: Council President Hoaglun, Council Members, I will be honest with you, I
can't give you the legislative history of how the code was developed what was
developed in there. I can surmise a number of things, but, again, if we take the overall
consideration of the home occupation regulations it really was in individual instances
and unique instances aside. Really was so that we didn't run into a situation where we
were detracting from the overall appearance and enjoyment of residential properties
and so that we didn't have all of a sudden garages becoming de facto car repair
garages or having -- heaven forbid -- we have had -- we have had some people come
in that want to make and store toxic or hazardous materials as part of a home
occupation. We had one gentleman that wanted to -- I think he wanted to distill bio
diesel. We have had other people who wanted to store -- they make firearms and
Meridian City Council
February 28, 2012
Page 28 of 50
munitions wanting to store those kinds of things. So, really, it -- there is a couple of
key issues involved. One, again, is the appearance and enjoyment of residential uses
and the other one, of course, is the public safety. That being said, I -- you know, we
can do research -- I know of other instances where home occupations are allowed with
certain limitations either in attached or detached structures. There was a legislative
determination made when the UDC was adopted that we didn't want really any
accessory structures being utilized for the occupation.
Hoaglun: Thank you.
Zaremba: Mr. President?
Hoaglun: Yes.
Zaremba: First I apologize for arriving late and since I missed most of the testimony I
expect to abstain on the vote on this, but I would comment on the question that you
just asked. I was on the committee that helped write the Unified Development Code
and Mr. Friedman said most of it, but some of the extra discussion was that an
accessory use permit for aresidence -- we wanted to make sure that the focus was
this is really a residence and there are reasons why people would run certain kinds of
businesses within their residence, but I'm -- vyhatever the wording came out, our point
was we didn't want somebody building a separate building to run a business in in a
residential area and I realize you didn't build that building for that purpose separate
from your house, but the wording that got into the UDC, the intent was for people to be
able to run a business in their residence and still have it remain looking like the
residence to everybody else and not to allow them to build a separate building for the
purpose of adding a business to a residential neighborhood. So, that's kind of where it
came from.
Hoaglun: Thank you for that history, Councilman Zaremba. On the testimony just to
fill you in, he's now man of the year, by the way, so -- we have heard a lot of good
things about him. But Iguess --and I'm stretching here, Pete. His detached garage --
the Walgreen's is commercial -- is that neighborhood commercial I believe? Is that --
Friedman: You caught me, Councilman.
Hoaglun: Yeah. I --
Friedman: I'm guessing it's probably neighborhood commercial if --
Hoaglun: Because they close at 11:00. But that --
White: 10:00.
Friedman: 10:00. Okay. And there is probably no way to extend that zoning to -- to
encompass his detached garage, is there?
Meridian City Council
February 28, 2012
Page 29 of 50
Friedman: Councilman Hoaglun --
Hoaglun: I'm stretching here. I'm grasping at straws here.
Friedman: I would not recommend that. I --
Hoaglun: Okay. I didn't think so. You see where I was going with that.
Friedman: Yes, I do.
White: I can appreciate where you are and what you're doing and trying to do. I do
appreciate that. But, by the same token, I'm trying to look out for me. I don't want to
be a law breaker, but I want to be busy doing something and I'm not going to sit in front
of the TV for seven, ten hours a day. It isn't going to happen.
Hoaglun: I don't think that's your nature, Mr. White, so --
White: So, what do we do? Igo away from here tonight no different than when I came
in, other than I had a good experience and got to see the other side of the fence and
hear your dilemma and I appreciate what you do trying to make it happen..,
Hoaglun: Great.
White: I would like to have a copy of the suggestions that Councilman Rountree has
given and see if we cannot work on that. We might be able to swing and sway -- there
is no way that I'm going to at this time see possible to connect the two buildings
together. There is what, 50 feet between them, maybe 60, and I've got the yard going
both ways all over the sidewalk. It just wouldn't be feasible to connect the two
buildings in my mind.
Hoaglun: What we have to do here, tonight, Mr. White, is either continue this public
hearing to a time certain or we have to make a decision tonight, so -- and that's up to
the Council members here to make that determination, so -- we can certainly get these
to you, but if the determination is made in the negative, then, it's done. But if it's --
yeah. But if it's made with these conditions of these or possibly others, then, it's up to
you to say I can or can't do that. Then that's the option as well. Or we continue it and
see if there is something else out there that we can work on, but as you can tell we
have been working pretty hard at this trying to -- trying to make this work.
White: I want to make it work
Hoaglun: Yeah.
White: But I don't want to be a law breaker by the same token and you don't want me
to be one and you would like to have it work I'm sure. Even Councilman Rountree.
Meridian City Council
February 28, 2012
Page 30 of 50
Hoaglun: Even Councilman Rountree. He really is a good guy, so --
White: He's all right.
Zaremba: Mr. President?
Hoaglun: Councilman Zaremba.
Zaremba: I opened my mouth and admitted I'm here. I would ask a question that may
have been covered before I got here and I apologize if so, but I guess my question is
about preexisting conditions or stuff like that. What is the relationship between when
you started doing this and when you were annexed into the city? Were you doing this
before you were annexed?
White: I purchased the property apparently after the annex --
Zaremba: Oh. Okay.
White: -- because I'm not aware of any annexing.
Zaremba: Okay. I thought the annexation was recently, but Icould -- that answers my
question.
White: I bought the property in November of 1999.
Zaremba: Okay.
White: After Mr. Heller and Mrs. Heller had moved out.
Zaremba: Thank you. That kind of ruins where I was going.
White: It was a nice try.
Zaremba: Thank you.
White: Well, then, I suggest that we table it and continue. I work with the suggestions
-- try to make it happen. The one connecting the two is probably going to be the most
impossible one to do, unless I can put a four inch tube under the ground right at the
edge of the sidewalk and call that a connection. That may not fly.
Hoaglun: Possibly not, but we will see what Council members would like to do.
Rountree: And I think that's a good suggestion. Mr. President?
Hoaglun: Council Member --
Meridian City Council
February 28, 2012
Page 31 of 50
Rountree: And for Mr. White's benefit I, too, replace shovel handles.
White: Do you do as good a job as I do?
Rountree: Probably. Maybe even better.
White: We will have a contest one of these days.
Rountree: I carve them, so -- I don't buy a handle and put it in, I turn them out of ash
and put walnut handles on them, so --
White: I'd like to come and see your operation.
Rountree: Anyway, Mr. President, I would move that we continue this public hearing
for the benefit of Mr. White having an opportunity to review the comments that have
been received this evening and the comments that he's made as well and schedule it
for -- we have already run out February, so --
Holman: Councilman Rountree --
Rountree: Yes, ma'am.
Holman: -- that would be March 7th, because we are moving the meeting to a
Wednesday that week.
Rountree: And I would ask Mr. White is a week enough -- do you want --
White: Ask me what?
Rountree: Is a week enough? Do you want to come back in a week or do you want a
couple weeks to think about it? To schedule another hearing.
White: Once I see it in writing it's not going to be too hard to --
Rountree: Okay.
White: --work through it, so let's shoot for a week.
Rountree: Let's -- date certain is March 7th, 2012 .
Hoaglun: Yes. And, Councilman Rountree, just to clarify your motion as -- do you
want Mr. White to work with staff on this issue?
Rountree: If that's his desire, yes.
Meridian City Council
February 28, 2012
Page 32 of 50
White: I have no problem with --
Hoaglun: Okay. Is there a second?
Bird: Second.
Hoaglun: We have a motion and a second to continue this to March 7th and for Mr.
White to work with staff on the conditions related to his appeal. If there is no other
discussion -- Councilman Zaremba is abstaining on this vote; is that correct?
Zaremba: That's correct.
Hoaglun: Okay. With that I -- I have to ask City Clerk is this a roll call vote or just a
voice on this?
Rountree: Just voice.
Hoaglun: Just a voice. Okay. All those in favor say aye. Any opposed? There is
none. So, we continue to March 7t"~ Thank you, Mr. White.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSTAIN.
White: I'll give these papers to here.
Hoaglun: Great. We appreciate it.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda -Tuesday, February 28, 2012 Page 2 of 2 All
materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearing,
please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public
meeting.
C. Public Comment on Fireworks Code Update
Hoaglun: With that we are now to Item 7C, public comment on fireworks code update
and, Perry, are you going to have any comments before we take any comments?
Palmer: I have none at this point.
Hoaglun: Okay. Is there anyone here to testify regarding the fireworks code update?
Yes, sir. Come on up. And as you saw, name and address.
Palomarez: John Palomarez. I live at 3416 North Westlane Avenue.
Hoaglun: Okay. What was the last name again?
Palomarez: Palomarez.
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February 28, 2012
Page 33 of 50
Hoaglun: Okay. Thank you.
Palomarez: On the code -- the question I had as far as the two signs that go in that,
can I get some kind of clarification on like what that's going to cause, if that's -- a
building -- a sign on the building, is that considered a sign or is it two physical signs out
on the street? I'm wondering what exactly to change, because that can be pretty, you
know, ineffective if it's only one sign on the street and a sign on the building as far
as --
Hoaglun: That, sir, is a very good question. I recall a city councilman asking that very
same question when we discussed it, so that's an awesome question. Pete, what --
what response do you have for that?
Friedman: Council Rountree -- I'm sorry, Council President Hoaglun, Council
Members. I recall Councilman Rountree's question on that. The concern at that time
was whether the signs -- the 32 square foot -- two 32 square foot signs were going to
be the total amount of signs needed that would be permitted for the fireworks stands or
would limited duration signs be also allowed and having kicked this around and worked
with Mrs. Kane in the City Attorney's Office it was concluded that the two 32 square
foot signs were the total amount of signage, so you could .either have two on site -- I
don't think -- you know, unless you want to do one and one -- you know, if you have
two detached from this structure, you know, I'm not sure anybody will mistake the
structure for what it is. It really is the two 32 square foot signs.
Palomarez: Okay. The only reason why I asked is because last year when they had
the one sign if I had my name on my actual stand that counted as a sign, so I actually
had to remove the name from my stand and put it out on the street, which, you know, it
cost me a few hundred dollars to put that on my stand. So, that's why I was
questioning that and I was unsure if it was each sign had that certain amount or if it
counted as, you know, two separate signs or -- that's more what I was wondering and,
then, if it's -- if it's 32 -- however many feet it was for -- whether that's two or one sign,
does it count front and back?
Hoaglun: Yeah, John -- and, yeah, we just need to go through the chair. It's a little
protocol thing.
Palomarez: Oh. Sorry.
Hoaglun: Don't worry about it. It's all right. And, Mr. Friedman, go ahead, what --
what's your response?
Friedman: Thank you, Council President Hoaglun. As I said last time, I feel about as
ignorant of this code amendment now as I was back then. However, my
understanding in talking with Kristi today it's two 32 square foot signs.
Meridian City Council
February 28, 2012
Page 34 of 50
Palomarez: Okay.
Friedman: We don't really calculate whether it's back or front, so --
Hoaglun: And what I understand, John, from this -- and we discussed earlier -- if
you're on a corner lot and you put a sign out there and a sign over here, there is your
two signs. It's kind of a unique thing. But it's -- again, get -- and so you want to
maximize your size to the size, but, yeah, it's just our sign ordinance, it's kind of like
going back again, this is what we do for other businesses and how it's required, so we
can't -- we have to keep it the same, so --
Palomarez: Yeah. And I understand, because I know it can look kind of trashy the two
weeks that we are out there, if there is, you know, five or six big signs out there, I
mean you need to keep it clean and --
Hoaglun:. Let me ask Mr. Friedman to weigh in again on this.
Friedman: Thank you, Council President Hoaglun. This is the one thing I do know.
The one change from this year versus last year with this whole thing is when you come
in for your fireworks stand permit your signs are already a part of that permit, you do
not have to get a separate sign permit for that, so it's taking the Planning Department
review completely out of that.
Palomarez: Great. One other question. In the change is I noticed that the distances
for the smoking and the use of fireworks nearest the stands is being changed.
Hoaglun: Yes
Palomarez: Is there any way to review that to keep them the same?
Hoaglun: Yes. It's my understanding -- and, Perry or Pete, you might correct me on
this -- but our change actually makes it standard to what the -- not International Code --
National Code or what -- whatever the -- whatever the code that's used by everyone
else, we had farther distances, so people had to change their signs for Meridian for this
particular one. We are now going to whatever the standard is and, Perry, do you want
to weigh in on that?
Palmer: Council President Hoaglun, Council, that is correct. What we changed
brings it completely in line with what the International Fire Code calls for and what the
other jurisdictions in our area require.
Palomarez: Okay.
Hoaglun: Does that --John?
Meridian City Council
February 28, 2012
Page 35 of 50
Palomarez: Yeah, that answers that. Yeah. If I decide to keep the further distances,
because I feel it's safer and I don't want anything happening, is there going to be any --
Imean is that well within my rights to be able to do that?
Hoaglun: I will ask --
Bird: Minimum.
Hoaglun: Ours is a minimum standard.
Palmer: Exactly. Yes.
Hoaglun: So, if you feel more comfortable with farther distances, then, if you're posting
it, then, you should be fine. Yeah.
Palomarez: Okay. Great. Everything else seems fine in there, so that's all the
questions I have.
Hoaglun: Thank you, John. Also have a Rick and Laurel -- is it Hardy? Okay. I will
go with that. Did you have any comment? Okay. Great. Thank you. No more public
comment on the fire. code update. We do have an ordinance before us, Ordinance 12-
1505. Council, any questions for staff? Anything further?
Rountree I have none, Mr. President. I would move that we close the public hearing
on Item 8 -- or 7-C.
Bird: I'll second it.
Hoaglun: We have a motion and a second to close the public comment on 12-1505.
All those in favor, please, say aye. Any opposed? Hearing none, public comment is
closed.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
D. Ordinance No. 12-1505: Fireworks Code Update
Rountree: Mr. President, I move that we approve Ordinance 12-1505.
Zaremba: I'll second that, but I do have a question. Does that need to be read by the
clerk?
Rountree: It has to be read.
Zaremba: Title only.
Rountree: Title only.
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February 28, 2012
Page 36 of 50
Hoaglun: Yes. We will have the clerk read the ordinance by title only.
Holman: Councilman Rountree, don't take away my chance to shine. City of Meridian
No. 12-1505, an ordinance amending Meridian City Code, Section 5-4-5 regarding
permit for retail sales of nonaerial common fireworks, amending Meridian City Code
Sections 5-4-6(0) and 5-4-6(p) regarding signs and standards related to fireworks
operations, amending Meridian City Code Section 5-4-7(i), 11 through 13, regarding
signage for short term storage containers, amending Meridian City Code Sections 5-4-
8(a), six through eight, regarding prohibitions and discharging fireworks, smoking or
igniting flames in short-term storage containers. Amending Meridian City Code
Sections 5-4-10(b) regarding application fora public fireworks display permit.
Amending Meridian City Code Sections 5-4-10(g) through (k), regarding application for
public fireworks display permit, providing a savings clause and providing an effective
date.
Hoaglun: Is there anyone who wishes to have the ordinance read in full? Thanks for
not requesting that. We have a motion and a second to approve Ordinance 12-1505,
the fireworks code update with the suspension of rules. Maker of the motion, is that
correct?
Rountree: Correct.
Zaremba: Second agrees.
Hoaglun: And second agrees. So, Madam Clerk, would you, please, call roll.
Roll Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 8: Department Reports
A. Department Report: Resolution No. 12-842: A Resolution
Appointing Cheryl Caldwell to the Solid Waste Advisory
Commission, Seat 3
Hoaglun: Okay. Moving forward. Department Reports. Item 8-A is a resolution 12-
842, approving -- appointing Cheryl Caldwell to the Solid Waste Advisory Commission
Seat 3. And I don't think Cheryl is here tonight, but her -- her letter of interest was
included in our packet and it's always good to have citizens volunteering to serve.
Bird: Mr. Chair?
Hoaglun: Councilman Bird.
Meridian City Council
February 28, 2012
Page 37 of 50
Bird: I move that we approve resolution number 12-842.
Zaremba: Second.
Hoaglun: We have a motion and a second for 8-A. Madam Clerk, will you, please, call
roll
Roll Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
B. Legal Department: Letter Seeking Support of S61336
Regarding Work Related Illnesses for Career Firefighters
Hoaglun: We now have before us Item 8-B, Legal Department. Bill?
Nary: Thank you, Mr. President, Members of the Council. I'm actually here on behalf
of our legislative committee. Our local fire union was seeking support from the
legislative committee and the Mayor and the Council in regard to Senate Bill 1336,
which is a presumptive illness legislation. What you have in your packet is a draft
letter.-- and I actually provided the clerk's office today a revised letter either for Mayor
de Weerd's signature or Council President Hoaglun's signature if the Council agrees to
support this. What the -- what the career firefighters in Idaho are seeking is laws that
are similar in other states in regards to presumptive illness. There are certain
identifiable illnesses that data -- a large body of data has been collected that shows
that firefighters have a higher susceptibility to those types of illnesses, so what they
are seeking is, essentially, the ability, rather than going on front -- if they were to
develop this type illness for a career firefighter, rather than going to the worker's comp
board to prove that it was derived from their firefighter experience, that it is presumed
that it was derived from their firefighter experience, unless you can show they have a
family history or predilection based on lifestyle, things like that, in regards to certain
types of illnesses that would -- would at least discount the belief that it was incurred as
being -- because of being a career firefighter. The bill is -- was approved for printing
by the Senate. I believe it's going to be heard by the Senate State Affairs Committee
this week. Our legislative committee did review it -- it reviewed a variety of different
concerns. Obviously, one of the costs from the city's perspective is the cost of
worker's comp coverage, since we pay the State Insurance Fund for that type of
coverage. The impact to the city for this is fairly small, it's -- it's a two to five percent
increase, potentially, of our worker's comp coverage for firefighters. We did pay a
different percentage for all the workers in the city based on the jobs that they do. The
maximum amount of cost to the city is 6,000 dollars a year. So, based on that number
and based on the information that was provided, the legislative committee did agree to
support this and bring it forward for your consideration and whether or not you would
provide this letter of support for the fire union that -- not just the local, but the state
organization for the firefighters association, the professional firefighters association of
Idaho, whether we provide a letter of support for that. So, I have some documented
Meridian City Council
February 28, 2012
Page 38 of 50
material if you wanted more opportunity. Mr. -- Grant Hamilton, one of our fire --
president of our local union, wasn't able to be here tonight. I told him I would be happy
to present it. If the Council had a concern or wanted him to be here he could be here
next week. Obviously, they are getting heard this week by the Senate, but if that was
the Council's desire you can certainly set it over, so -- I can answer your questions if
you have any.
Bird: Mr. President?
Hoaglun: Councilman Bird.
Bird: Bill, what's some of the -- what's the diseases or what is --
Nary: I can -- I can actually read this off to you, Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would appreciate it.
Nary: Members of the Council. Yeah. In the bill what they have identified -- again
based on -- based on the medical data that the national organization has gathered --
and part of it is it's -- there is also a time limit, because what the -- they are attempting
to do is .to make sure that .somebody didn't acquire that prior to their., firefighter
experience, because, obviously, many of the firefighters don't come into it from just a
formal college education time period. They may have worked somewhere else and --
you know, they may have worked in a diesel mechanic plant or they may have worked
in a factory or something else before they became a career firefighter. But the -- the
ones that are listed in here is brain cancer. That's after a ten year period as a
firefighter. Bladder cancer after 12 years. Kidney cancer after 15 years. Colo-rectal
concern after ten. Non-Hodgkin's Lymphoma after 15. Leukemia after five. Uterine
Cancer after 12. Testicular cancer after five if diagnosed before the age of 40, with no
evidence of anabolic steroids or human growth hormone use. Breast cancer after five.
Also if diagnosed before the age of 40 without breast cancer one or breast cancer two
genetic predisposition to that. Esophageal cancer after ten and multiple myeloma after
15 years. One of the things that our legislative committee asks was lung cancer that
intuitively seems something that a lay person might think is more common in
firefighters and what was explained to us is they do have ahigher -- they do have a
little higher tendency to get that in the firefighter profession, but it wasn't asignificant --
significant enough difference medically from the rest of the general population for them
to consider it. Part of it is, of course, they tend to be -- they use a breathing apparatus
and such for when they enter fires, so it does have a slight increase for firefighters, but
it wasn't significant enough medically to be able to include that. So, that's why they
were able to designate really conditions or diseases that had a higher incident of -- of
evidence in career firefighters than they are in the general population. So, that was
what their data was based on.
Bird: Mr. President?
Meridian City Council
February 28, 2012
Page 39 of 50
Hoaglun: Councilman Bird.
Bird: Follow up. You know, you talk about cancers that I would say say 50 to 75
percent of your brain cancers are -- come from lung cancer and I happen to be a nine
year survivor of lung cancer, so I have a little fall back on that. I -- I have no problem
signing this and everything, but why is it just the firefighters? I mean I think if you go
down the line we know that the biggest thing with lung or a lot of the cancers is your
eating, smoking, your lifestyle. I have no problem signing it and I -- but I -- I think if we
are going to do it for one part of our -- one part of our service -- with the diseases you
just listed I think you do it for all your employees.
Hoaglun: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Yes, sir?
Hoaglun: Oh, I just wanted to say from what I had read there have been extensive
studies that kind of bring these out and it does kind of set these parameters, because
of the likelihood if they haven't been exposed to something they are not going to get
that within that time period and this sets up only once -- once they meet those time
frames, whether it's ten years, 12 years, 15 years, and if they get that particular cancer
or disease that it's, been well established there is a link between. their -- what they did
as a firefighter and that particular disease. Is that my understand -- is my
understanding correct?
Nary: Thank you, President Hoaglun. Your understanding from the information I have
is correct and I guess, Mr. Bird, the only answer I can give you -- we asked the same
question. I don't know that we have higher -- we have data to support say higher
incidents of certain types of medical conditions among say police officers, but there
probably exists some. I don't know what they are. And the same thing with treatment
plant workers is another question we had, because, obviously, people are exposed to
toxins, like in a treatment plant environment maybe and the response really was -- and
they recognize that's probably the biggest concern the legislature has had with this bill
in the past is carving out this -- this special area. All I can tell you is what was told to
us and why our committee supports it is the data supports that. The data supports that
there is higher incidence of these types of conditions among people who have this
particular career choice and because of the time gaps that they created there, that the
data at least supports that for a majority of the people who develop those types of
conditions. After that time period has elapsed it tends to be more related to the work
that they perform than their lifestyle and others. But, again, it's a rebuttable
presumption that it is caused by that. It doesn't mean that it is a done deal and it is
going to be a covered disability or a covered claim, they still have to be able to show,
you know -- and according to them and according to the data that's around the county
is -- I mean the states still come back and still evaluate your lifestyle, whether they are
a smoker or whether they live in a smoking household, whether they have a family
history for diabetes or lung cancer or testicular cancer or breast cancer and those type
of things that have a hereditary relationship to them. So, they do still have to provide
Meridian City Council
February 28, 2012
Page 40 of 50
data. It helps them get over a presumption that makes it very difficult the other way.
So, again, our legislative committee we did ask the very same questions. The data
supports it, so we were willing to support it and bring it to you.
Bird: Like I said, I'll sign it, I'm happy, I'm for it.
Hoaglun: Okay. Any further questions from the Council?
Bird: Mr. President?
Hoaglun: Councilman Bird.
Bird: I move that we support the letter for the -- for Senate Bill 1336 regarding
work-related illnesses for career firefighters.
Rountree: Second.
Hoaglun: We have a motion and a second to send a letter supporting Senate Bill
1336. All those in favor say aye. Any opposed? Okay. We will get that letter sent out
then right away.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
C. Standard Form of Agreement Between Owner and Architect -
AIA B132-2009 Between City of Meridian and Insight
Architects
D. Award of RFP and Agreement to Kreizenbeck Constructors
for Construction Management Services for the Not-To-Exceed
Amount of 5.25% of the Construction Cost Estimated at
$1,300,000.00 Plus Direct Reimbursable Expenses
Hoaglun: Item 8-C, standard form agreement to the owner-architect. Is that you, Mr.
Nary?
Nary: Actually, it's Mr. Siddoway.
Hoaglun: Oh, our Parks Director Steve Siddoway. Thank you, Steve.
Siddoway: Mr. Nary's welcome to chime in, but Item C and D are connected, so with
your permission, Mr. President, I will address them both at the same time.
Hoaglun: For you, Steve, we will let you.
Siddoway: Thank you. My pleasure to be before you tonight, Mr. President, Members
of Council. As you know we have been anxious to begin work in earnest on the
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February 28, 2012
Page 41 of 50
maintenance facility design construction documents and construction, with the hopes
of entering -- opening the facility next year. Beginning back in September or October
of last year we put out the RFQ for architectural services. We had approximately eight
architects that responded. They were ranked by a committee. Insight Architects was
the highest ranking firm. At that time we went through fee negotiations and authorized
specifically the concept planning aspect of that that was -- and we were before Council
approximately a month ago and saw in some detail the -- the concept planning work
that we had begun for the site. Now, we were told to put the -- the design development
and construction documents on hold at that time while the construction best practices
task force worked on a preferred project delivery method. The direction that was
brought back by that task force was to use the general -- not to use a general
contractor, but to use a construction manager method of delivery. We, then, put out a
subsequent RFQ for construction management services. We received eight applicants
on that. Kreizenbeck was the high -- highest ranking applicant through that process.
Kreizeneck Constructors, and here in the audience tonight we also have Michael
Berard with Kreizenbeck, who can answer any questions you might have of him. They
did submit two proposals which were reviewed and deemed acceptable at five and a
quarter percent of the accepted overall project cost of 1.3 million. Basically we have
1.5 million total in our budget and we need the -- the construction management fees
and the project fees to stay within that budget. Legal has reviewed and prepared the
contract documents based. on AIA standard contracts at this time and .per the .task
force recommendation. It looks like Mr. Nary stepped out, but I was going to give him
an opportunity to comment on legal's involvement in that process, but with that as an
overview of where we are I will just say that we have successfully negotiated proposed
contracts for your consideration with both Insight Architects and Kreizenbeck
Contractors and I would stand for any questions.
Hoaglun: Thanks, Steve. Any questions?
Bird: Mr. President?
Hoaglun: Councilman Bird .
Bird: Steve, without me going through the whole AIA contract, what's the fee for the
architectural?
Siddoway: You know, I was just going to ask Bill -- I notice it didn't get printed on here.
I believe it's right at 120. And the scope of services for that includes everything from
public involvement, survey, environmental assessment, facility design, cost estimates,
project coordination with various agencies such as Nampa-Meridian, ACHD, and other
agencies like that and, then, there is a list of 11 deliverables that they are expected to
provide from design graphics to the certificate of zoning compliance.
Bird: A percent -- a percent in other words?
Meridian City Council
February 28, 2012
Page 42 of 50
Siddoway: Yes. It's right there. Mr. Nary, do you have with you the total contract
amount for the -- the Insight Architects agreement? I know it was in the a-mail that I
believe Ted sent you yesterday.
Nary: Yeah.
Bird: He doesn't want to go through the whole contract?
Nary: I can get it really quickly. I'm sorry.
Hoaglun: Well, while Bill's looking at it, any other questions regarding the agreement
for City of Meridian and Insight or Kreizenbeck Constructors? Anyone want to give
Mike a hard time while he's here? Now is our chance.
Bird: I think we negotiate his fee down a little.
Hoaglun: I might ask you, Steve, what -- once this moves forward, what's our time
frame for the construction and --
Siddoway: Well, I don't have -- I can tell you that if it's approved tonight we have a kick
off meeting on Thursday of this week. ,
Hoaglun: Okay
Siddoway: One of our very first next steps is to get together with Councilman Bird,
he's got some facilities he'd like us to look at in terms of level of effort and concept that
we need to roll into our concept planning efforts at this point and, then, we will have a
much better timeline. We hoped to be beginning construction at the beginning of the
summer, but we pushed out about four months, so just as quickly as we can, but it's
going to be mid to late summer by the time we get construction documents, bid
process, and have a contractor on board. I don't know if you have any specific
thoughts, Mr. Berard, for me at this point, but --
Zaremba: If you're going to continue
Hoaglun: If your answer is longer we have to have you come up.
Siddoway: I'm going to have to repeat everything you say.
Hoaglun: I was going to have Steve translate it, but -- go ahead.
Berard: Based on -- based on the anticipated schedule I'm going to push it as quickly
as we can. We have to identify all the skill parameters, but if we can get ahead of the
curve and get construction started in early summer, so we can get the majority of the --
of the site work, paving, landscaping, whatever -- the exterior work is done by
November, we are in great shape. If we started later and that work needs to go into
Meridian City Council
February 28, 2012
Page 43 of 50
the spring, then, we start getting into winter conditions and additional expenses,
delaying the overall schedule in the spring and it really kind of prohibits a February,
March move in and probably pushes us more to a -- to a late April, May move in, just
based on weather conditions. So, the goal is to try to get the timing kicked off
correctly.
Hoaglun: So, a year from now, basically, if we can meet that?
Berard: Yeah.
Hoaglun: Okay. Councilman Bird.
Bird: Mike, we can -- we can do the site work and a lot of that stuff without having
complete drawings, can't we? Get started on that?
Berard: We can do -- we can do some, yes. You can always pave early. I think the
big challenge is trying to get it sequenced in to where you're not working over the top
of new work. So, the big focus is going to be --
Bird: You don't want to bring your equipment on top of your -- yeah. Okay.
Berard: Okay.
Bird: Yeah. Okay. Thank you.
Hoaglun: Okay. Any other questions?
Bird: I have none.
Hoaglun: Steve, any comment -- last comment?
Siddoway: No, sir. Not unless there is any other questions.
Hoaglun: Okay. Thank you.
Berard: Thank you.
Hoaglun: So, Council, you have before you Items 8-C and D.
Bird: Mr. President?
Hoaglun: Councilman Bird.
Bird: I'll make a motion. I guess we don't have a number for the contract with the
Insight Architects, but I would move we approve the AIA B132-0029 -- or 009 between
City of Meridian and Insight Architects.
Meridian City Council
February 28, 2012
Page 44 of 50
Rountree: Second.
Hoaglun: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 8-C. All those in favor -- oh,
Madam Clerk, please, call the roll.
Roll Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Hoaglun: Item 8-D is before us.
Bird: Mr. President, I move that we approve the construction management agreement
with Kreizenbeck Constructors and the City of Meridian for the amount not to exceed
5.25 percent of the construction cost for a maintenance building.
Rountree: Second.
Hoaglun: We have a motion and a second to approve Item 8-D. Madam Clerk, would
you, please, call the roll.
Roll Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
Hoaglun: All ayes. Motion carries on both those.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
E. Fire Department: Budget Amendment for FEMA Fire
Prevention and Safety Smoke Alarm Grant for aNot-to-
Exceed Amount of $27,861.00
Hoaglun: Thank you. Our last item under Department Reports is Item 8-E, Fire
Department budget amendment for FEMA fire prevention safety smoke alarm grant
and, Perry or Pam, which -- who is who up?
Palmer: She twisted my arm to do it.
Hoaglun: You lost the toss.
Palmer: I lost the toss . Yes. Thank you, Council President Hoaglun and Members of
the Council. Before you tonight is the fruits of the labor of Pam Orr, our fire prevention
and education specialist, where she put in for a grant with the intent to make Meridian
a much safer community by having adequate and working smoke detectors in all
homes. That's the ultimate goal. It's going to take us a little while to get there, but I
think that you can see from the amount of the grant that she was able to able to obtain
we are going to be able make great strides towards that ultimate goal. So, the -- the
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February 28, 2012
Page 45 of 50
goal is -- as stated is to get every home with working smoke detectors, but the
emphasis is to target the areas of the community that are at the highest risk and that's
the elderly, senior living situations, as well as the deaf or hard of hearing and
surprisingly enough in her information gathering and working with the Idaho Council for
the Deaf and hard of hearing, they were extremely pleased that there is a program like
this. Quite honestly, it hadn't really crossed their mind of going down this path or
providing smoke detectors specifically designed for the deaf and hard of hearing. So,
they are extremely supportive of this effort and I think that it's going to probably spin off
into other communities to try to work with communities to -- in throughout Idaho to try
to provide these kind of services. As you can see she's worked very diligently with
.many aspects of the community and businesses to partner. This is a short time frame
window to try to accomplish this and part of that is driven by the grant constraints of
trying to have this all finished by June 30th and trying to address over a thousand
homes between now and the end of June is going to require a lot of help. So, you can
see the list of all the partners and folks that have indicated that they are going to help
us with this process. There will be training sessions with them as to how to properly
greet the public, do the paperwork that's required, as well as installing the smoke
detectors in the homes. The cost breakdown is before you. The total grant was
139,305 dollars, of which the 20 percent match by the city is reflected in the 27,861
dollars. The remainder would come from FEMA. On the second page, getting the
word out, she's already. been working with the media and different outlets for getting
the word out to folks. We have been working with the GIS folks here in the city to help
us get the mapping to the homes that we want to target, which are primarily before
1990. Typically these homes were not required to have smoke detectors when they
were built and if they do have to have smoke detectors most typically they are the old
design and have the limited use batteries. So, the detectors that we decided that we
are going to go with are the ones of the new design, which have the ten year lithium
battery. You know, if the detectors are a nuisance people tend to take them down.
These have the silence features so that if you're cooking and it goes off you can
silence it and in 15 minutes it resets. It also -- again it goes ten years. And that's the
expected life of the smoke detectors. So, when the battery goes bad and it indicates
that it's bad, that's a good time to replace the detector as well. Let's see. So, you will
see the product goods listed. That is what will go out in our request for proposal for a
vendor on detectors. It's not proprietary, it's listing the desired item that we want to
acquire and all vendors that would be eligible to bid have the same opportunity to bid
that device. Project dependencies. You can see all the different folks that we need to
involve in this and what their involvement is going to be. Again, on the third page it
talks about all the partners and the process that we go through, the time frame that we
have to work within, the estimates for time stamps on all the different processes that
need to occur and, then, a breakdown on the very last page, again, as the cost per
item and how many items of each type of detector that we are looking at getting. And,
then, the final thing is the breakdown from GIS as to the approximate number of
homes that we are looking at that are in that target zone. With that I will entertain any
questions.
Hoaglun: Council, any questions for Perry or Pam?
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February 28, 2012
Page 46 of 50
Rountree: Mr. President?
Hoaglun: Councilman Bird -- or -- yes, Rountree.
Rountree: The guy down here on your right.
Hoaglun: Yeah.
Rountree: Who will be installing these?
Palmer: There is the -- the folks that are listed back on page one, actually. There is
folks from the public safety academy that we will use. Lowe's. Walmart. All those
have indicated that they have people that will volunteer to install. The engine
companies will also be going out and helping with the installations as well. So, we
have quite a -- quite a gathering of folks that will all go through the proper training, they
will be cleared with background checks to make sure that the police are happy with the
choices that we use.
Rountree: And has the FEMA grant been awarded?
Palmer: Yes, it has.
Rountree: And has that money been brought forward as a budget amendment and, if
not, why not, and when are we going to see that? Because if you get a grant you're
still going to have to have budget authority.
Palmer: Right.
Rountree: I don't understand why we can't do it once, but apparently we can't, but --
okay. Is there an implied liability on the part of the city since we are partnering and
doing this and see that it's done, if there is some issue with a fire and there is injury or
something related to somebody saying it didn't work or was installed wrong or
whatever -- where are we with the liability aspect, Bill?
Nary: Mr. President, Members of the Council, Council Member Rountree, Ithink -- I'm
looking at the documents and one of the things it says there is legal paperwork for
program liabilities. I haven't seen those yet, so I'm not sure who is doing that. I mean
right now we go out and change batteries in people's smoke detectors and we do that
as a public service. This is a little bit more than that, so I'm not sure who -- who is
going to be responsible. To me the installer is going to be responsible if they are
installing an electrical device that requires a permit or something like that. They are
the ones responsible for it. But I'm not sure what all of them are, because this is --just
through this -- this week have I seen this. So, I don't know if we have any -- those
questions answered yet.
Meridian Cily Council
February 28, 2012
Page 47 of 50
Rountree: And, Perry, I don't know if you -- or Pam, either one, have given that any
thought or know of experience with other projects like this.
Palmer: There is actually paperwork that comes with the program; right? Yeah.
Councilman Rountree, there is documentation or paperwork that comes from FEMA as
kind of the template to follow that the city can make the appropriate adjustments as
they see fit to that document.
Nary: You need to come up to the --
Rountree: Come on up, Pam.
Hoaglun: Yeah. I know you tried to avoid it.
Rountree: I knew we would get her up here.
Orr: President Hoaglun, Members of the Council, thank you so much. We are putting
together the documentation now on Mr. Nary that is going to be not only the applicant
-- application for those family members homes that desire this service, but also for
them to be able to sign and do kind of a waiver if you will. Understanding that this
service that uve are providing for them is to make .their homes safer, but, you know,
there is so many -- there is so many variables they have to take care of the unit, they
have to clean it, they have to test the unit and, you know, we can't be responsible for
that. Something else on these units is that they are ten year lithium batteries only.
We are not installing electrical units and the reason for that is because if we do we felt
that we were going to have to bring in electricians for that and we didn't feel that we
were there, you know, on -- for this program.
Hoaglun: Thank you, Pam. Any other questions for Council?
Bird: Mr. President?
Hoaglun: Councilman Bird.
Bird: On this budget amendment, we have no signature from the department, Council,
Finance, Mayor, anything, and where -- where is the 27,861 coming from out of your
budget?
Rountree: Good question.
Holman: President Hoaglun?
Hoaglun: Yes, Madam Clerk.
Holman: With budget amendments, because there is so many signatures required,
usually the scanned copy that goes in the laser fiche is not the final copy. I have a
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February 28, 2012
Page 48 of 50
budget amendment here that everyone has signed, including the Mayor. It's just
waiting for approval. So, I just wanted to clarify we do have all of that.
Hoaglun: If it's the same as this it's the 27,861.
Holman: Well, yes, it's got operating expenditures, capital outlay, and cash donations
received broken out into three separate sections, but do you want me to -- do you want
to see this copy, Councilman Bird?
Bird: If you have got it on file, but --
Hoaglun: Pam or Perry, that -- you do have funding in your budget to fund that 27,861
dollars?
Orr: I do not know if that, in fact, is true.
Hoaglun: Coming out of Tracy's budget? Shall we try that? Okay. I take that as a no.
Bird: I'm sure it's coming out of the fire department, but -- that's all I ask is where it's
coming from and Chris was supposed to -- I see I signed this last week and he was
supposed to tell me vuhere it vuas coming from., because that's a question I asked him
standing right up here, so we can ask them. We know it's going to come out of the
budget somewhere. Take it out of the chief and the assistant chief.
Hoaglun: Okay. Any further questions for Pam or Perry on this item?
Rountree: I have none.
Hoaglun: Okay.
Bird: Mr. President?
Hoaglun: Councilman Bird.
Bird: I move that we approve the budget amendment for FEMA fire prevention and
smoke -- smoke alarm grant, not to exceed the amount of 27,861 dollars out of the
existing budget.
Rountree: Second.
Hoaglun: We have a motion and a second for item -- approval of Item 8-E and,
Madam Clerk.
Roll Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
Holman: All ayes. Motion carries.
Meridian City Council
February 28, 2012
Page 49 of 50
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 10: Continued from Pre-Council Agenda: Executive Session Per Idaho
State Code 67-2345 (1)(f): (f) To Consider and Advise Its Legal
Representatives in Pending Litigation
Hoaglun: We are at Item 9, future meeting topics. Council, is there anything that you
want to see on the agenda coming up? We have pushed one from tonight until next
week, but anything else?
Rountree: I have nothing. I would move that we go back into our continued Executive
Session.
Nary: Mr. Chairman -- or Mr. President. Sorry to interrupt you before you do that. I
was just going to -- just going to clear up the record from earlier. You were asked
about Insight Architects. The amount for them was 110,290 dollars.
Bird: Okay.
.,Nary: So, I just vvanted to make sure you had that from the record.
Hoaglun: Mr. Siddoway?
Siddoway: And I would just add that is the 120,000, that I mentioned, minus the
amount that we have already paid them for concept design services. But the amount
for the contract as approved tonight would be the 110,290.
Hoaglun: Okay. Thank you, Steve.
Bird: Thank you.
Hoaglun: Appreciate that clarification. Thank you, Bill, for getting that information.
We have a motion. Did we have a second to go back into continue our Executive
Session? Was there a second?
Zaremba: Second.
Hoaglun: Oh. Okay. And we do have asecond -- motion and second to go back into
Executive Session. Roll call vote. Madam Clerk.
Roll Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES:
EXECUTIVE SESSION: (9:18 to 10:19 p.m.)
Meridian City Council
February 28, 2012
Page 50 of 50
Bird: Mr. President?
Hoaglun: Councilman Bird.
Bird: I move we come out of Executive Session.
Rountree: Second.
Hoaglun: I have a motion and second to come out of Executive Session. All those in
favor say aye. Motion carried:
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Bird: Move we adjourn the meeting.
Rountree: Second.
Hoaglun: Motion to adjourn. All in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Hoaglun: We are adjourned.
MEETINGADJOURNED AT 10:19 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
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DATE APPROVED
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