HomeMy WebLinkAbout2011-11-29 JointE IDIAN
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CITY OF MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL
PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION
JOINT MEETING
SPECIAL MEETING AGENDA
Tuesday, November 29, 2011 at 7:00 p.m.
City Council Chambers
33 East Broadway Avenue, Meridian, Idaho
1
Roll-call Attendance:
X David Zaremba
X Charlie Rountree
X Brad Hoaglun
X Keith Bird
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
2
3
4.
Pledge of Allegiance
Adoption of the Agenda Adopted
Consent Agenda Approved
A. Award of Bid and Agreement for "Maple Ave. Water Main
Replacements-Construction" to the Low Bidder, Star
Construction, for the Not-To-Exceed Amount of $130,506.00
and Authorize the Mayor to Sign the Agreement
B. Approval of New Beer, Wine and Liquor Licenses for Lucky
Fins LLC, dba Lucky Fins Located at 1441 N. Eagle Rd.
#100
5
6.
Items Moved From Consent Agenda
Department Reports
A. Mayor's Office: Mayor's Youth Advisory Council (MYAC)
Update (Pg.2-5)
Meridian City Council & P&Z Joint Meeting Agenda -November 29, 2011 Page 1 of 2
All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearing,
please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting.
B. City Council: Acceptance of Ada County Official Election
Results and Canvass of Votes Approved (Pg. 5)
7. Roll Call Attendance of the Planning and Zoning Commissioners
X Tom O'Brien X Steve Yearsley
O Michael Rohm X Joe Marshall
X Scott Freeman -Chairman
8. Certificate of Zoning Compliance (CZC) Year in Review Report
(Pg. 6-8)
9. Fairview Access Management,Plan Presentation and Update
(Pg. 8-14)
10. Airport Road -Overland Road Study Presentation and Update
(Pg. 14-16)
11. South Meridian Future Land Use Request for Proposal (RFP)
Information (Pg.16-17)
12. Potential Comprehensive Plan Text Amendments Discussion
(Pg. 17-20)
13. Downtown Right-of-Way and Streetscape Standards Presentation
(Pg. 20-27)
14. Traditional City Core (Downtown) Outreach Report (Pg. 27-30)
15. Open Discussion (Pg. 30-37)
Adjourned Meeting at 8:55 p.m.
Meridian City Council & P&Z Joint Meeting Agenda -November 29, 2011 Page 2 of 2
All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearing,
please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting.
Meridian Citv Council November 29, 2011
A meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:00 p.m., Tuesday,
November 29, 2011, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, Brad Hoaglun, David Zaremba, Keith Bird
and Charlie Rountree.
Others Present: Bill Nary, Jaycee Holman, Pete Friedman, Rich Dees, James Leslie,
Parry Palmer, Caleb Hood, and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
X David Zaremba X Brad Hoaglun
X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
De Weerd: Okay. I will go ahead and call this meeting to order. Thank you all for
joining us this evening. For the record it is Tuesday, November 29th. It's 7:00 o'clock.
We will start with roll call attendance, Madam Clerk.
Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance
De Weerd: Item No. 2 is our Pledge of Allegiance. If you will all rise and join us in the
pledge.
Item 3: Adoption of the Agenda
De Weerd: Item No. 3 is adoption of the agenda.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: There are no changes to the printed agenda we have before us. So, I move
approval -- 1 move adoption of the special meeting agenda as printed.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda as presented. All those
in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 4: Consent Agenda
Meridian City Council & Planning and Zoning Joint Meeting
November 29, 2011
Page 2 of 37
A. Award of Bid and Agreement for "Maple Ave. Water Main
Replacements-Construction" to the Low Bidder, Star
Construction, for the Not-To-Exceed Amount of $130,506.00
and Authorize the Mayor to Sign the Agreement
B. Approval of New Beer, Wine and Liquor Licenses for Lucky
Fins LLC, dba Lucky Fins Located at 1441 N. Eagle Rd.
#100
De Weerd: Item 4 is our Consent Agenda.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Again, nothing new on there. I move approval of the Consent Agenda and
the Mayor to sign and Clerk to attest.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda. If there is
no discussion, Madam Clerk, roll call, please.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 5: Items Moved From Consent Agenda
De Weerd: There were no items moved from the Consent Agenda.
Item 6: ®epartment Reports
A. Mayor's ®ffice: Mayor's Youth Advisory Council (MYAC)
Update
De Weerd: So, we will move to Item No. 6 under Department Reports. First up is the
Mayor's Youth Advisory Council. Thank you joining us.
Knapp: Thank you. My name is Elizabeth Knapp and I go to -- I am home schooled
and I take a couple classes at Centennial High School. I'm the vice-chair of MYAC this
year and I'm also the chair of the community involvement subcommittee.
Meridian City Council & Planning and Zoning Joint Meeting
November 29, 2011
Page 3 of 37
Valtoff: I'm Abbey Valtoff and I'm a senior at Mountain View High School and I'm at the
-- and I'm the at large representative for MYAC, meaning I help to represent the schools
that might not have as many members or be underrepresented in MYAC, so that they
are able to get their ideas put in as well.
Knapp: Thank you for giving us the opportunity to speak tonight. MYAC has been
really active this year with 40 to 50 students attending each meeting. It's a lot better
attendance than last year, so we are really excited about this. Also every member is
really active and engaged this year, which is great. In November's meetings we did
Mad City Money, which is a real world financial simulation, which I think is really good
and educational for the students to see what it's like to live in the real world with real
expenses and things like that. This event was led by Capital Educators and it's put on
in conjunction with the Meridian Chamber of Commerce and that was really successful.
Last night's meeting included a presentation by Dan Long on the seven habits of --
excuse me -- of highly effective teenagers. This was really good, too. I think people
learned a lot and they had some really good points that not every teenager thinks of.
Community involvement this month participated in Rake Up Meridian where we were
able to rake up three homes. Last year we only did one, so this was really -- this was
really good. We also had a lot of attendance by the MYAC members. That was great.
In two weeks from today we will be volunteering to wrap gifts for the Meridian Kiwanis
Club hope tree project. That's Tuesday, the 13th, and we will be wrapping gifts for the --
the children that need gifts and the gifts that have been bought for them already. So we
will be doing that. And, then, did you want to talk about --
Valtoff: In the Teen Activities Council we recently had a haunted house at the
community center and it was a big success. We had a lot of teenagers and middle
schoolers come from around the City of Meridian and we had a better turn out than we
have had in previous years, so we will be continuing this again next year and we will
make a few changes, so that we can make it even more successful, but we look forward
to repeating it again next year.
Knapp: Government affairs held their candidate forum a couple weeks ago. That was
also very successful. We had a lot of students come and participate. Thank you to
Councilman Zaremba and Councilman Rountree for coming and for Mayor Tammy. I
think it was really -- it was really successful and we also were able to learn a lot of good
things for the next time we want to do a candidate forum. GA is also looking to hold a
legislative breakfast in the beginning of 2012 in January sometime and we will decide
next Monday what we are going to advocate to talk to the legislators about when we do
that and, then, we will also be choosing a location soon. And we are also beginning to
plan for a youth forum in either April or May. So, we will hopefully invite some other
students to come and join us and that will be really good. Thanks for letting us talk
tonight. Do you guys have any questions for us?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
Meridian City Council & Planning and Zoning Joint Meeting
November 29, 2011
Page 4 of 37
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I don't have a question, I just want to compliment you for your presentation
tonight, but also take back to your group we up here have been able to go to a lot of
candidate forums and I think that the one you kids put on out there was the best one I
have ever attended. I really appreciate what you did for the community and for the
voters and helped. I really -- I can't thank you enough and you guys did a very very
good job.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I would second that. Even though I was a participant and
somewhat -- you're always a little hesitant in those situations, but it was -- it was well
done and at the end I enjoyed it, particularly on November 8th, but --
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
Rountree: And compliment you on your presentation this evening and -- and I learned
something tonight that the out reach of MYAC goes beyond the public school system
and, Elizabeth, I'm pleased that it goes out into the community and you were able to find
it. That's great. Thank you for taking that on and getting involved.
Knapp: I'm glad I could be a part of it.
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Thank you. I, too, want to thank you for being involved in the community and
-- and for putting on the candidate forum, which I also enjoyed. I'm watching my watch
very closely here.
De Weerd: That's because you can see it.
Zaremba: Make sure I don't get red flagged or something. But it was -- it was very well
put together and very well put on and like Mr. Bird I thought it was one of the best that I
have ever attended, regardless of which side I was on, and really appreciate all the
work that you guys are doing. So, thank you.
De Weerd: Since you're getting kudos about that, you have already heard my -- my
comments, but I met with several of the candidates that ran for office today. I had three
of them and we kind of debriefed with them, gained their perspective, learned what they
learned during the campaigns. But all of them commented about the youth council
forum and greatly appreciated not only the opportunity to have an interaction with the
community, they really enjoyed the interaction with the youth, and, in particular, the
interaction that happened after the debate or the forum was over, chatting with a
number of the students and getting additional opportunity to find out more about what is
on all of your minds. So, that was -- it sounds like all around very favorable responses.
know from attending the debrief -- we had a discussion on it Monday -- oh, that was just
Meridian City Council & Planning and Zoning Joint Meeting
November 29, 2011
Page 5 of 37
yesterday. Discussed it last night and I think that it was the consensus of the group,
too, that it was something that they gained a great deal out of, too. We are excited
about it. So, anything else from either of you?
Knapp: No..
De Weerd: Well, thank you Abbey and Elizabeth for joining us. Appreciate it.
Valtoff: Thank you.
~. City Council: Acceptance of Ada County Official Election
Results and Canvass of Votes
De Weerd: Okay. 6-B under City Council, Council, in front of you you do have -- well,
will just turn this over to our City Clerk.
Holman: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, we received the Ada county
commissioners canvas the votes at their meeting after the --the general election, so this
is just our acceptance of their canvassing of the votes and just reading it, so it's official
in the record. And I believe the scanned documents should be in your laserFiche
packets electronically.
Bird: They are. Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: We have to vote on it, don't we?
De Weerd: Yes.
Bird: We have to have a motion. Are you ready? I would move that we accept the Ada
county election results as presented to us.
Hoaglun: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Madam Clerk.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Okay. I will ask our Commissioners to join us at this point and once they
are up here and seated I will ask our clerk to call roll.
Meridian City Council & Planning and Zoning Joint Meeting
November 29, 2011
Page 6 of 37
Freeman: Okay. Shall I go ahead and open this, Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yeah. Well, why don't you go ahead and open it and call roll.
Item 7: Roll Call Attendance of the Planning and Zoning Commissioners
X Tom O'Brien X_ Steve Yearsley
O Michael Rohm _X_Joe Marshall
X Scott Freeman -Chairman
Freeman: At this time I would like to open the public hearing for the special meeting of
the Planning and Zoning Commission of the City of Meridian for this date of November
29th, 2011, and let's begin with roll call. Do I need to take that? All right.
Item 8: Certificate of Zoning Compliance (CZC) Year in Review Report
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Freeman. We will go ahead and turn this over to Pete with
Item No. 8.
Friedman: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Mr. Chairman,
Members of the Commission. Before we launch into the agenda, this is really your
meeting. I know you folks haven't had a chance to get together in quite awhile. We did
present an agenda for you. It's kind of full, but we really feel that if there is some other
items you would rather talk, please, feel free to do that or make some time so you can
have some joint discussion amongst yourselves or other topics that may be of interest,
so --
De Weerd: I wouldn't even say kind of, Pete.
Friedman: You mean kind of full? Well, it's going to be a tag team effort and I have the
good fortune of having probably the quicker ones, so I will try to get through those as
quickly as I can. But first off I just wanted to do sort of the year in review for you in
terms of some of the development. Obviously, as you drive around the community
signs of it are everywhere. All of a sudden it looks like things have been coming out of
the ground all over town and there is more to come. This past year we processed and
issued 62 certificates of zoning compliance, seven conditional use permits. We had
three preliminary plats with 206 residential and 53 nonresidential lots. Final plats we
had eight, 126 lots, but our total square footage is our telling. We have over 180,000
square feet of residential development that we have either approved or permitted. We
have almost 200,000 square feet of office space, an impressive 318,000 square feet of
commercial space and even approaching 160,000 square feet of industrial space. So,
it's been -- it's been a busy year, it's been a productive year, and I think it's been a very
good year for the city and I think there is more to come next year. Some of the
highlights of some of the more prominent projects -- obviously, fast Eddy's, they have
Meridian City Council & Planning and Zoning Joint Meeting
November 29, 2011
Page 7 of 37
got the one on Pine open and they are rapidly getting close to getting the one at
Overland up and going. Gramercy Apartments you really don't see them, because they
are kind of hidden in the back there, but we have three large units going in up there.
Those are under construction. Meadow Lake Village, we have done a CZC for yet
another retirement apartment building and they are also putting in a memory care
facility. Meridian Town Center, what can I say. We have approved a CZC for the
overall layout of the buildings and the parking layout and the next two items that we
have issued the CZC, the Marshalls and Big AI's, are the first -- the developments that
are going in out there. It's been kind of interesting and will continue to be an interesting
little waltz, because you have so many tenants and the developer does some of it and
the tenants do some of it and sometimes they are not all talking to each other, so it's
proving to be an interesting exercise for us. PKG has now opened their new building
over off Pine. We understand this is the first of more to come. So, all of a sudden that
whole Pinebridge area has taken on a new life and is coming out of the ground. It's not
on here, but we have Life Church going in over at the Coors building. Regency At River
Valley just north of Meridian Town Center has had their CZCs in and reviewed and
approved 240 residential units. I think we are waiting to kind of get some of the utility
issues straightened out out there. Again, it's been sort of a coordination between some
various property owners on who is going to provide some of the utilities and the roads
and that sort of thing. Rosauers is coming along. There is also a Les Schwab going
along out there. Kind of as a side note, I was talking to an acquaintance who lives out
that way and they said, golly, all of a sudden there is stuff happening out here and I
don't have to go very far pretty soon to be able to do some of the things I need to do.
So, that was interesting and fun to hear. Scentsy, again, as I said, they have -- you
have seen a lot going on there and you're going to see a lot more going on come this
spring. The Commission recently approved a Conditional Use Permit for the five story
office building. They were in the next phase, the certificate of zoning compliance.
That's out. They are talking about breaking ground come spring. So, things are going
to be going up more out there. Southridge Apartments, the Commission did approve
the conditional use. We will be coming back to you with the final DA for approval next
week and, hopefully, that will be moving forward and maybe we will be seeing a CZC on
that before too long. Walmart at Overland and Stoddard is moving forward. Sonya has
been working on the certificate of zoning compliance for that and we are now starting to
do some of the coordination for the new one up at Ten Mile and McMillan. We have got
a couple of partnerships going on up there between two property owners to get an
access road back behind it, because Walmart doesn't own the property where the right
of way is supposed to be, but the adjacent property owner is willing to dedicate the right
of way and Walmart will build half plus 12 and, then, the other property owner will build
the other half of the road. So, again, that's one of those ones we kind of have to
finesses in terms of how we get it through the approval process and insure that the
public interest is protected so that we get the road.
De Weerd: Pete, I guess I would also comment just to make sure, Council -- the
distribution center, that's a second one. That's not the one that they are already
Meridian City Council & Planning and Zoning Joint Meeting
November 29, 2011
Page 8 of 37
occupying and almost out of room. This is a second distribution center, so -- and they
need to have that open by June; isn't that correct?
Friedman: Yes. Madam Mayor, there is -- we are still working with them and they are
still working on some of that, but once they have concluded some of their discussions
that they -- they will be in. We have met with them and we understand their time lines
and so it's really right now back in their hands with some negotiations that they are
having to do. So, that's not all, but that certainly is most of the development that you
have seen in the last year and I just want to acknowledged that other than Lori and
Barbara, who couldn't be here tonight, that's your staff. That's who is doing all of this.
They are doing the heavy lifting. I'm proud of them. You should be proud of them.
look at -- I have friends that work in other cities, I look at other cities who are our size
and bigger, they are not even doing a shadow of what are doing and they have larger
staff, so --
De Weerd: Do they have them that young?
Friedman: Well, he's in training.
De Weerd: Oh. Okay.
Friedman: He's in training. And he puts in a few nights at some of the meetings also.
So, anyway, we will be pulling some more of this together for the annual report, plus
some other highlights on some of the things we have been doing, but just an overview.
I know, you know, you all see these as they come through in dribs and drabs throughout
the year, but, you know, when you put it all together it certainly makes for an impressive
year, especially given the past couple of years before that, so -- be happy to answer
any of your questions or we will move on with the program.
De Weerd: Council, Commission, any questions? Okay. Thank you, Pete.
Friedman: Thank you.
Item 9: Fairview Access Management Plan Presentation and Update
De Weerd: So, Caleb, you will start with Item No. 9.
Hood: Yes, Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Hood: Members of the Council. Members of the Planning and Zoning Commission.
Thank you all for being here tonight and contrary to what Pete may alluded to, I will be
brief -- at least on these first couple ones, then, move through the agenda. Some of
them may take a little more time, but do appreciate you all taking the time out tonight to
Meridian City Council & Planning and Zoning Joint Meeting
November 29, 2011
Page 9 of 37
discuss these issues with us and these are the ones that we wanted to bring you up to
speed on and get feedback on, so I think these are -- these are some things we are
working on right now that are critical to what happens here in the city and, again, thank
you for taking the time. The first one that I'm going to explain to you -- or bring you up
to speed on -- and for the Council a lot of this will be review, but I have not had the
opportunity to come to the Planning and Zoning Commission and talk to you about
Fairview access management, so I want to give a pretty high level overview of what's
gone on here over the past couple of years anyways and where we are at today. So,
Fairview Avenue between Linder and Orchard has been under study. The goal of the
plan is to balance local land use planning and economic goals with safe and efficient
operation of Fairview Avenue. What you see on the screen there is a snap shot of
about a half mile of the corridor and this is -- we are talking about an eight mile corridor
here that goes through Meridian and Boise along Cherry-Fairview and there are two
roles in this, but the purpose of the access management plan is to increase safety and
reduce congestion on Fairview by using a set of tools that allow both the cities and
ACRD to control access. Now, this isn't something that's going to happen overnight. It
is a long term plan. So, with redevelopment some of these tools that I alluded to, like
cross-access or even closing driveways, going to right-in, right-out, will occur and that
will be something that the city, in coordination with ACHD, will be working on. Some of
it will also be project driven. So, ACRD right now has a project that in draft A of their
current five year work plan is scheduled for 2017. So, it's still a few years out there, but
the blue line that you see in the middle of Cherry Lane in this example would be a
center raised median, which would eliminate a lot of left turning movements. So, that
would be something that the highway district would take on in this scenario if this plan is
adopted and they move forward with designing the center median project and I will talk
a little bit more about that in just a minute. So, I mentioned -- so, some of the tools are,
again, cross-access, which I mentioned. Medians. U-turns. And right-in, right-out
driveways are the primary means to achieve access management. Now, to kind of
bring you up to what's happened here in the recent past. September 14th ACHD held a
public involvement meeting. More than 3,000 invitations were mailed. They put up
sandwich boards. E-mail invitations. Advertised in the Statesman. We had 96 people
attend and 102 written comments were received. Fifty-one of those represented
themselves as business owners, which is a good proportion of those approximate 100
people that were there, about half were business owners, or at least stated they were
there representing a business, so -- and what we heard back -- and this was in the
memo. What we heard back wasn't all that positive, to be just quite blunt about it, and
the highway district is kind of tapping the brakes on this at this point and wanting to fully
understand those concerns, work with those business owners, see what could be
tweaked in this draft access management plan to make sure nothing rash happens and
that we don't make the problem worse than it is currently. So, I did want to share with
you -- I did communicate a little bit today with the project manager at ACRD, Lisa
Applebee, as well as Sally Goddell -- and I think it might just be easiest for me to read
the last portion of that e-mail chain from Sally today. And it says we want to make sure
we let the community know that we heard many adverse comments and are working on
a game plan to bring stakeholders, especially businesses, back into the discussion as
Meridian City Council & Planning and Zoning Joint Meeting
November 29, 2011
Page 10 of 37
we did early in the concept design work. Now that we have the attention of the
business community we want to take advantage of that and engage them in a
discussion about the larger problems we all face and how we move forward. We want
to put access management in the context of Fairview and the full suite of options we
have, linking the stakeholders about how to unfold the improvements over time. So,
there was -- last year there was a rush to get this done. It's been hanging out there for
four or five years. We finally got businesses to the table and they aren't so supportive of
the project. So, as was stated, we are going to be working with them some more and
trying to -- I don't know if compromise is the right word, but work with them on a plan
that works for everybody. So, I see this going on into next year, figuring out a way that
we can unfold those improvements. So, one of the next first steps in this process will be
a joint meeting with the City Council, ACHD, and the City of Boise and that should
happen sometime just after the first of the year. So, I think that's where a lot of kind of
those next steps will be discussed among the elected officials about what do we do
about this and how do we proceed forward. So, I know ACHD the wheels are spinning
about proposing some things for you all to consider at that joint meeting. But look for
that invite anyway, so -- and, then, for the Commission -- I'm sorry I didn't get into a
bunch of the details today, but there is additional information that you can find on
ACHD's website on this project or you always can contact me and we can run through
something -- any questions you may have. But in a nutshell that's -- that's what's been
going on with the access management plan and, then, the project being a center
median project at ACRD. So, with that, Madam Mayor, I will stand for any questions
you may have.
De Weerd: Thank you, Caleb.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Rountree: Caleb, what's -- what are the expectations of ACHD in the first of the year
meeting with the City of Meridian, Boise, and ACHD?
Hood: That's a good question and I haven't asked that. I think -- reading between
some of the lines, I think one of the questions is what do you expect this to become or
do we want it to become anything. I think they may be at a decision point where do we
press forward or do we really re-think this -- some of the other expectations or maybe
ways to tackle this that ACHD is looking at is -- and it's not only apples to apples, but
what ITD is doing on Eagle Road and how they are going about designing and
implementing center medians on Eagle Road and what may work for them and what
may not work with that project. So, they are going to wait a couple years and see how
that plays out I think. Again, two different roadways, context are different, but they are
some of the first -- I know Boise has some center medians, but those have been there
for a long time. So, retrofitting with center medians -- but, again, Councilman Rountree,
I don't know what the expectations are.
Meridian City Council & Planning and Zoning Joint Meeting
November 29, 2011
Page 11 of 37
Rountree: Madam Mayor. My concern is that we have been through this already. And
now it appears we are starting over and I know Councilman Zaremba and Bird have
spent many hours in a good portion of, what, over a year working on this coordination
committee. It would be nice to know what ACHD's expectations are, so when we go to
the meeting we have a sense of where they want to go. It seems to me like they just
want to walk away from this and put it on the back burner for awhile and if that's the
case I don't know what value a meeting is going to have.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Actually, I think it's been going on longer than that. I think I started going to
the first meetings probably four years ago and it maybe was being discussed at CICAC
before that. But it doesn't seem right to me that the option would be to do nothing or to
stay the way we are. I realize this -- you know, a few years ago when everything was
growing real fast it seemed there were a lot of projects, including this one, that seemed
like they needed to be done immediately and I think we have some more breathing
room now that the economy and growth has slowed down, but I don't want to see the
idea dropped. I mean the impetus in the first place was the safety issues of what
happens with that much traffic and that's left turning at what appear to be many random
places -- hundreds of them in that eight square -- eight mile length. I'm certainly familiar
with medians from other cities and -- and they do work well. They -- if they bare
designed right and there are proper u-turn places. So, I'm -- while I say this doesn't
need to be done tomorrow, I'm uncomfortable with letting it drop, because the original
issue is still there. We need to improve the safety, as well as the traffic flow, and
medians work and the thing that I think other cities have found -- and we do need to be
careful how it's designed, but there is a perception among people that are not familiar
with medians that it will kill all the businesses and that really doesn't happen. It --
people that want to go to a business find a way to get their making right turns. They
may miss it the first time they try and go, but by the second time they try and go they --
they know how to get there and they -- if they want to go to the business they can go.
So, I -- we do need to listen to the concerns of the business owners and work things
out, but I don't think that should stop us.
Hood: And, Madam Mayor, if I can just clarify, I didn't mean to imply that the project is
stopping. They are tapping the brakes and want to consider those comments and make
sure they are addressed before a median gets put in Fairview. I also -- it's not just
about the center median, though, either. Some of the comments received from the
people are just about access is shown on this plan and who they are sharing with and
delivery trucks and making sure that if you do put it there that that business can still
operate, you know, that they do -- you know. And there is several hundred businesses
along this corridor and we try -- we know kind of institutionally where some of those are,
but we learned some, too, and said, oh, this is what you -- business operation in the
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November 29, 2011
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middle of the night, you have these big trucks come in and you need this to happen -- I
mean those are some of the tweaks that we are talking about. So, I haven't heard them
say we are stopping this or putting it down, it's just we want to make sure that the plan
moving forward is feasible and we don't do something that is -- yes, the safety and
congestion issues are still there and we need to do something about that, but popping
down a center median and saying you need to share that driveway there on paper may
look okay, but in real life in certain instances it may not work. So, I didn't mean to imply
that this isn't going anywhere, but it isn't moving as rapidly as it was just a few months
ago, so --
De Weerd: Any other comments?
Marshall: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Joe.
Marshall: Caleb, just an observation. And I'm on board with you, Councilman Zaremba,
in that I do have background here and I have done a lot of studying on this. I do know
that there is a lot of information showing what would not be intuitive -- that intuitively if I
don't have an access right in front of my store it -- I need those things, but -- and I
appreciate the fact that they are taking the time to work with the businesses. I think
that's vitally important to make sure everything works out there. But I think one of the
things we are up against in this case is a number of media reports that I have seen have
had simply a paragraph touting the virtues of this and, then, four and five pages of
everyone against it that has no real background in design -- in traffic design and they
are all mad because somebody is going to take away the access directly in front of my
store or people can't turn left into my store and I think there is a lack of information out
there and I don't know how that can be disseminated. I think we are up against that and
-- I appreciate the fact that all those opinions and everything and everybody needs to be
heard and brought to the table, but at the same time I think there is a lack of knowledge
on this, because I -- what I know of from what I have read and studied, I'm not hearing
in the media, if that makes any sense. That's just my comment.
Hood: Madam Mayor, just to that, I can let you know ACRD is considering bringing out
-- because they don't have a lot of experience in this either. They are considering
bringing in some outside professionals from other states that do this to help with that
education component internally, as well as with the outreach to businesses to show
them success stories and maybe even bring in other businesses to say I had those
same concerns, they built it, and it's not as what I was expecting. So, kind of that peer
to peer and the traffic engineer from outside that has built -- has done these in other
places to assist them. So, those are the types of things I think they will probably put on
the table at that joint meeting for consideration. I don't -- again, I don't know what the
expectations are, but I know that that -- they realize that, too, that there is an education
component internally, as well as with people that will be expected to drive this corridor,
so --
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November 29, 2011
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De Weerd: Is there any chance that they can use the simulated modeling where it
shows the traffic flowing with the medians, first is without and where some of the -- the
traffic conflict points are created and Iguess -- and that came up in a conversation
today. People are very visual and if they can see what is being proposed and how it
makes it better than what currently exists, that always speaks much better than some
static picture or -- and, then, they have to kind of imagine what it all means.
Hood: Madam Mayor, they can do that. In fact, they have done some of that with the
last public involvement and out reach, they had a -- they didn't do the entire corridor,
because that would be very expensive.
De Weerd: Yeah.
Hood: But they did pick about a quarter mile or a half mile section to show how -- and it
was just on a loop, so the same cars just making the loop and here is somebody that
wanted to turn left and here is somebody that wanted to make a u-turn and here is how
you would get from A to B if you're this car and just kept running that. I don't know how
many people accessed it, but it was ACHD's -- it may still be there. It was on ACHD's
website to just kind of do that. It was animated cars and they also had some just static
diagrams, too, that showed all the conflict points that you're talking with that if
everybody turns left here is every place that you could crash into each other or -- as a
car turns right and this one turns left and so they do have some of that. It was fairly low
tech, but they did take a specific example on this corridor and, again, show how you
could maneuver that -- again, I don't know how many hits they had on that, but that was
a component, they do some more and do -- it's very expensive to do. I learned that
that's not cheap to do that, but I think this is an important project and that may be one of
the things that -- another tool that they look at using more of as this goes forward,
because I agree, I mean seeing it and how you're -- what's expected and the
implications, you're going to learn a lot just by watching a short video or whatever. So, I
can ask them again if that's something that they can look into some more and we think
that that would be a good tool.
De Weerd: Are some of the other comments on cross -- the cross-easements and how
some of those accesses will be gained and what it means to their current parking lots
and -- is that some of the concern?
Hood: Madam Mayor, yeah, there is certainly concern over -- or shared driveways and
what that would mean for existing parking, if you have to stub a driveway across. But in
a lot of instances you could take a couple of stalls you lost there and put them where
your driveway currently is on Fairview. So, it's anet -- you know, no net loss of parking
stalls over time and, you know, this isn't something, as I mentioned before, that happens
overnight. We do want to account for this, but it may be some time before we make
those connections and actually close those driveways, because it will take
redevelopment of multiple parcels, usually, for that connection to happen and until that
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November 29, 2011
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connection happens everybody gets to keep their driveway. Some of them do get
limited to right-in, right-out if a median goes in, but the concerns were kind of all over
the board with restricting to right-in, right-out was a concern, losing driveways,
obviously, was a concern. Just that it wouldn't work to share with my neighbor, because
my neighbor does this or that and I do this or that and just didn't think that that would
work. And, quite honestly, some of those concerns I think were legitimate. There is a
Commercial Tire over on Fairview near Orchard and it would be very difficult for them to
maneuver in and out of there with what we currently have in the plan. So, I think it was
just some of those things where understanding and really taking a detailed look at some
of those examples helps. So, concerns were kind of all over the -- all over the place,
but -- it wasn't all negative either. I talked to the library. It's a lot about education. Its a
-- you know, Iheard -- I heard from a lot of the folks in Meridian that this is something
that's needed, that, yeah, I don't turn left already. I don't -- I just don't do it, so -- and
accidents out in front of my business or my home, I see it. We just had the police out
there last week was one of the comments that I heard, because there was an accident
there. So, you know, I think something happened out there, I'm not advocating
necessarily for a median right now, but, you know, Fairview is not going to get better if
we do nothing. So, I think some more discussion and there is work still to be done on
this corridor.
O'Brien: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
O'Brien: I have an Ada County District -- or Highway District relative that works in the --
in the institution and the philosophy that they have really is we are not going to build it
until they need it. That's the philosophy at Ada county. That's the bottom line. And
that's why things seem so slow. This particular situation you have here in their eyes --
Now, I'm not -- don't quote me about -- you know, from hierarchy up here that that's
what they do, this is just an internal feeling, perception that people have within that
organization. The situation we have here is -- because of the slow -- of the slow growth
and the down turn of the economy, is an opportunity to make decisions now when we
maybe not need it and not the slow down of this thing, but we should speed up, if
anything, to have it ready when that need does come, so that we are ready to put in
place those things that we need to have to make it successful. That's my take.
Item 10: Airport Road -Overland Road Study Presentation and Update
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. If there is nothing further on this item we will move to
Item No. 10.
Hood: So, the next item, Item 10, is, again, review primarily for the Council, but I think
it's good for the Commissioners to hear some of Council's comments if you have any
and just -- I thought I would take this opportunity to let them know what's happening.
So, you know, about over the past year Airport Road in Nampa to Ten Mile Road in
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November 29, 2011
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Meridian has been under study and a corridor alignment was developed for the
extension of Overland Road. This was a collaborative effort between Meridian and
Nampa -- Nampa Highway District No. 1 and ACRD. The intent of the study was to
identify a direct route between the Nampa airport and the new Ten Mile-Overland
intersection. There were six alternatives that were originally developed with input from
stakeholders, the public, the cities, highway districts and, then, two alternatives kind of
rose to the top after a whole bunch of factors were considered and those were put out
for the public at a second public meeting and alternative 2-B was the preferred
alternative from the public. I think it was somewhere in the neighborhood of 60 to 65
percent of folks preferred alternative 2-B. From a technical standpoint 2-B and 2-C
were real -- real close neck and neck as far as alternatives and I put those -- all six of
the alternatives were in the memo that I prepared for this meeting. What you see on the
screen is the preferred alternative and I'm sorry it's bits and pieces, but this is
alternative 2-B. It was the preferred alignment as recommended by the technical
advisory committee -- the City Council did recently as well send a letter over to ACRD
stating that this alignment is the one that is preferred as well and ACRD highway district
acted on it. The 2035 traffic projections show that the existing road segments actually
only warrant a three lane section for the two miles that are in Ada county. So, we are
going to go from east to west, but Ten Mile basically -- oops. From Ten Mile to Black
Cat, McDermott for the two miles that are in Ada county, only really warrant a three lane
roadway, but that is primarily due to the existing land use designations that we have in
south Meridian. So, we will be looking -- relooking at that the beginning of this next
year. We will ask those stakeholders, you know, if there are land use designations that
we can put on the properties that permanently today cross-hatched with a future
planning area designation. And, then, the need for three lanes -- or maybe potentially a
five lane roadway depending on densities, will be reevaluated, but the alignment, if I can
draw on here. The alignment of that roadway -- it shouldn't change. So, there is a
center line roadway, basically -- and, I'm sorry, Ican't -- can't draw on here, but
hopefully you all know there is a fire station -- future fire station that's kind of shown
around where Overland intersects Ten Mile today and, then, continues to the west for
two miles. So, that alignment anyway, the center line of that we don't anticipate
changing. But, again, the cross-section of that roadway may change if some of the low
densities you see on the screen in some of that future planning area gets intensified, the
modeling may show a need for that to eventually be a five lane roadway. So, that's my,
again, quick overview. I think the Planning Commission knows at least that there --
when Ten Mile was done, you know, obviously there is a need for Overland to be
extended to the west and this study was something that -- that fine tuned that a little bit
and said this is the best place for that to be extended. So, again, I have that study and I
can share with you more of the technical details and even get you copies of that study if
you're interested, but I just wanted to let you know it's out there and that will be one of
the base line things that we will be using -- base line studies that we will be using as we
engage stakeholders in south Meridian to talk about future land uses, so -- again,
Madam Mayor, if there are any comments or questions or anything you want to talk
about with that Airport-Overland study, I will stand for them now.
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November 29, 2011
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De Weerd: Anything from Commission or Council? Thank you, Caleb.
Item 11: South Meridian Future Land Use Request for Proposal (RFP)
Information
Hood: And I'm going to -- Item No. 11 is Pete and, then, I will be back here in just a
moment.
Friedman: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Members of the
Commission. That was a good segue. What we have up here is our future land use
map for south Meridian. If you will recall, it's been, oh, about five years since we
completed the last south Meridian future land use amendment and out of that came two
significant products. One was the area that is colored where we actually were able to
arrive at some designations having worked with the property owners and the public and
going through that interactive process and, of course, the second was solidifying the
area of city impact. What we didn't get to was that whole area that's cross-hatched,
because we went back and forth -- if you recall, I think we started with three alternatives
and, then, we went to four alternatives and, then, we went to five alternatives. At the
point where we did the three alternatives we found the road system couldn't handle
what we were proposing and at that time we said, you know, there is no pressure -- I
mean there was -- there was a lot of pressure at that time in terms of people buying
property, but there was no development pressure. Ten Mile interchange wasn't open
yet, there weren't a lot of utilities down there, and so we said, well, we will be back when
the time is right. Well, the time is right. Council approved an enhancement in our 2012
budget to engage in professional services to assist the city, essentially, painting the
colors into that area, but also incorporating into that serviceability transportation,
engaging our partner city of Kuna, city of Nampa, the two highway districts, COMPASS
-- it's actually come together quite well in terms of the timing, the Ada County Highway
District has allocated some funds, and so we will be able to work with them as we go
through this process. We won't have to wait for them, we will bring them right along as
partners in that. So, what we did was we went out with an RFP, we had six proposals
that we reviewed and after reviewing the six proposals we interviewed the two top
contenders and we picked the top one. We are going to be negotiating the scope of
work with Parametrics tomorrow morning. I think I saw Christine sneak in here.
Christine McCoy will be taking up the -- at least the public engagement part of it for
Parametrics and Christine was pretty instrumental, as a matter of fact, on the Airport
Road study, so she's very familiar with the area. And once we have negotiated the
scope of work we hope to get back to Council in mid December with a contract and,
then, kick this process off probably in January. We are looking at a -- kind of a mid to
late January to May process and we are pretty excited about what they have proposed
to. I think it's -- the public involvement part is actually going to be pretty fun, being able
to come up with some of the ideas they have used, some of the new technologies that
the city has acquired since -- in the last five years. Brian is very adept in a couple of
these visualization softwares that we have been able to obtain, so -- and you will all
have an opportunity to be involved in that. So, we are looking forward to that and it's
Meridian City Council & Planning and Zoning Joint Meeting
November 29, 2011
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going to be a fairly quick and robust process, but one of the things we really did
emphasize was the public involvement and, again, the program that Parametrics
presented to us was -- stood out above most of the others. So, anyway, we are pleased
to report that and, again, be back to you in a couple weeks with that contract, so -- any
questions?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Pete, does quick and robust have a timeline?
Friedman: We are negotiating that tomorrow, but the contract will probably spell --
originally the deliverables I had in the original proposal was a draft to us by April 2nd
and Commission, review deliverable by April 27th, I believe in consultation with the
Mayor, plus some of the other work we have been doing in the incorporated part of the
city with South Meridian, we have kind of pushed that out, so I think we are going to be
looking at -- kind of remove those dates from April to May, But, you know, it's a pretty
closed end contract.
De Weerd: Well, I just might add with the riew leadership in Kuna, there might be
opportunities to get greater involvement than we have seen in the past, which is
hopeful.
Friedman: Yeah. I did have a -- along those lines I did have an a-mail from the Kuna
planning director today saying that they were looking forward to working with us and
being engaged in this process and in speaking with Mr. Dees, a little bit about the utility
stuff. It's going to be critical that I know there has been discussions at the Public Works
Department and the Kuna Public works department, so I need to have those happening
as part of this conversation and so that we can, you know, come to some common
understanding about serviceability down there. And I would say it's hopeful.
Friedman: Thank you.
Item 12: Potential Comprehensive Plan Text Amendments Discussion
Hood: So, Mayor, Council, Members of the Commission, kind of working back from
what Pete said, that April, May, time frame. There are some changes to our
Comprehensive Plan that we would like to make before that. These changes that we
are contemplating -- and I would call your attention to the memo that I prepared for
tonight's meeting in your packet -- because I'm going to run through that real quick.
There are -- there are quite a few changes -- half a dozen or so anyways that -- that we
would propose before we get done with south Meridian and any text changes that may
go along with the future land use designations. I anticipate some changes to the plan.
It's primarily a map amendment, but I imagine we will need some text to explain some of
Meridian City Council & Planning and Zoning Joint Meeting
November 29, 2011
Page 18 of 37
the changes. So, rather than convolute some of these changes, I'm going to speak with
you right now. We are going to process the comp plan amendment here probably the
first of the year we will get the application submitted. I was shooting for December and,
then, it will probably be before the Planning and Zoning Commission in January and,
then, onto Council in February is a rough timeline. So, with that being said, I want to
run through some of the ones that we have identified already needing changed in the
new and improved, award winning, Comprehensive Plan. So, the first one is on page
44 of the comp plan. There is some text regarding a future acquisitions map. That text
currently states that the city staff will work on putting together a future acquisitions map.
That text currently states that the city staff will work on putting together a future
acquisitions map. I did discuss this issue with the Council on August 9th and I received
directions to forego a plan at least at this point, and instead work on a master facilities
map. So, we have not developed that map as of yet, but that map will be, when it's
composed, primarily used for internal use in coordination, but we anticipate also being
used as development occurs. So, I won't read through the strike through and
underlining in the memo, I just want to call your attention that I will be cleaning that
section up so it doesn't state that they will be pursuing a future acquisitions map at this
point. However, it did make some sense to me to leave that somewhat open and still
have a section on a future acquisitions map and rather than going at a future facilities
map and make it clear that we are not invoking that portion of state code that would
allow us to condemn that if we have to or negotiate it, but just that we are trying to
coordinate things and we have a map that we will use for Parks and Public Works and
fire stations can all know where -- where utilities are going. So, that's the first proposed
change and I have some -- some draft text in there. And stop me at anytime if there is
any of these that you want to discuss or don't like how it's worded. I will let you know
you may see some other tweaks before we actually submit this application, but at least
at its first blush this is the intent of some of these text changes. The second text
change that I wanted to call to your attention has to do with the Ten Mile specific area
plan, which is adopted by incorporation into the comp plan and there are a number of
sections where the text does not fully describe the intent. The descriptions are open to
misinterpretation and where the text conflicts with other city documents, like the UDC.
So, the proposed changes are intended to bring additional clarification for the Ten Mile
plan and create greater consistency with those other documents and tools that we have.
The proposed changes are generally clarifications of text in Chapter 3 and all relate to
look and feel of new development. The largest proposed change is specific to canopies
and awnings and intended to bring greater consistency again to the UDC. There are
going to be some corollary changes to the UDC, so they marry up nicely, but it was just
some inconsistencies, as I mentioned, between the two documents -- the guiding
documents and the actual code, so we are trying to make that a little more clear what
the intent of some of that is. So, that's proposed text change number two and there are
multiple pages within the Ten Mile interchange plan that we will be amending.
A third change is a change to the table in the goals, objectives, and action items and,
again, if you have that memo handy we cut and pasted a sample page. Today the
priority column, as well as the ID column -- and I don't know if we will keep it ID column,
but we are trying to figure out a way to number those priorities for easy reference,
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November 29, 2011
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because right now you can -- you can write the text down, but nobody -- if you're looking
for it within the comp plan you have to scan through almost the entire thing to -- and
some of these tables are pretty lengthy. So, trying to figure out a way that we can
cross-reference the actual policy statements and give them a -- some type of number
system. And the priorities we have been working on with other departments over the
past year and we do have now priorities from all those departments on the objectives
and goals, where that department was listed as the responsible lead. So, we are going
to go ahead and propose those changes with this -- this plan. I imagine that will warrant
probably some discussion when -- at the public hearings, so -- but those are from each
individual department and we did get good participation rates from amongst folks and
appreciate the departments participating in that exercise. The fourth one that I want to
call to your attention is in the existing conditions report, which, again, is part of the comp
plan that contains an error where some of the text got covered by a graphic, so it's just
kind of a scrivener's error, but we wanted to clean that up a little bit, that formatting
error, so that one I won't spent too much time on. The fifth one I failed to make into your
memo, so this -- this change is -- has to do with the downtown transportation network
and Chapter 3 and the section currently makes mention of two north-south
improvements, so split corridor and the 3rd Street extension, but doesn't have any
mention of a possible east-west extension. So, this change would be to do -- to explain
the need for an east-west connection, basically, between Pine and the railroad tracks or
even Fairview and the railroad tracks. It isn't a very good connection between Main
Street and Locust Grove east-west in that half mile or even the full mile between
Franklin and Fairview. But this is specific to downtown and getting better circulation in
downtown. So, I have blown up an aerial of the subject area and -- try this one more
time see if I can get it to -- my arrows went away. Can you go back for me, Pete?
There we go. So, the text basically explains how Idaho and Broadway extension to
connect with Commercial Drive, which does come out to Locust Grove, is a necessary
east-west connection, beginning at the railroad tracks here and Pine you can read. But
there really isn't anything coming in besides Pine into the downtown area east-west.
You can even see north of Pine, not very good connectivity there and so this -- again,
this policy in the text addition would propose to get that connection downtown. So, I'm
sorry, I didn't get that into your memo, but you can review that text with the application.
It is fairly brief, but it just goes into explain basically what I just said verbally how there is
a need in this area for that connectivity, so -- so next steps. So, I'm looking for any
feedback you may have on these. I realize most of these aren't earth shattering policy
type things, but I did want to give you the opportunity at least before we submit the
application to -- to give us any feedback and streamline that process, so we can make
these changes. I do also call to your attention there are some mixed use designations,
changes, some clean ups in Chapter 3 that we would like to make for consistency
cross-referencing applicable zoning districts and those types of things. But, again,
nothing too significant that we will need to spend too much time on. So, we will submit
that here just as soon as we can and, then, the next wave should hopefully include what
we do here in south Meridian. So, with that, Madam Mayor --
De Weerd: Thank you, Caleb. Any comments from Council or Commission?
Meridian City Council & Planning and Zoning Joint Meeting
November 29, 2011
Page 20 of 37
Rountree: I have none.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I was just going to comment I appreciate the things that you're identifying that
need to be fixed and going the right direction.
De Weerd: Is your mike on?
Zaremba: No, it was not on. Now it is. I'll repeat that.
De Weerd: Want to say it again?
Zaremba: Yeah. I appreciate, Caleb, the things that you're identifying that need to be
fixed and other things that you realize need to be in there and I just wanted to comment
that I appreciate that you're going the right direction with it.
Hood: Thank you.
De Weerd: I guess with -- in regard to the Ten Mile plan, it doesn't -- in looking at it, it
doesn't look like there is substantial changes, but you may want to look at some of the
participants in that and run it by a couple of them just to gain some perspective on
maybe we don't think they are substantial, but they might.
Hood: Will do. Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay.
Item 13: Downtown Right-of-Way and Streetscape Standards Presentation
Hood: Okay. Moving right along. Item 13. And this is going to be new stuff for
everybody. This is something that I have been working on and Brian McClure has been
helping me out quite a bit on this, coming up with standards for right of way in downtown
and taking over, essentially, regulation of the area between back of curb and face of
building and the area shown in orange, I guess. Red. The orangish color there in our
downtown core. And a lot of this came about -- and Brian will talk to you a little bit more
in the next agenda item, but he did some out reach in coordination with some of the
Mayor's office staff, we had Public Works staff go, and MDC staff was part of the door
knocking experience in -- in downtown -- the downtown core as identified by Destination
Downtown and some of what Brian heard from some of those stakeholders was a
concern for the ability of downtown businesses to compete with some of the projects
that Pete mentioned, like Meridian Town Center, or Ten Mile projects that are
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November 29, 2011
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happening and they wanted to have some allowance that would allow them to highlight
their businesses that currently weren't allowed. So, Brian primarily drafted some
guidelines that are intended to provide additional allowance and greater ability for
businesses, such as cafes and restaurants, to build upon and reinforce the historic
charm of the city core, to create a unique draw and attract more people into the core
and to benefit -- and to the benefit of all businesses and the public. So, some of the
things that are called out in some of the draft standards are -- are bike racks, planters,
tables, chairs, patio areas, fencing, those types of things. News stands. Are all -- are
all talked about and would be allowed with the city being the ones that would take over
the responsibility for permitting those and regulating that area, at least in the orange
area again that you see here. Today, again, those things -- it's not feasible with ACRD
regulating them today, given that license agreement. We heard some of the feedback
that it's -- it's costly at ACHD, some of the regulations aren't very business friendly, so
we have heard some of those comments and we have tried to craft it into something
that does that balancing act of not giving away the farm, but you allow those things to
happen within reason, for lack of a better term, and Brian I think has come up with some
good standards for what is acceptable and what -- you know, to maintain that charm
and what would be unacceptable and a detriment to downtown. So, again, these draft
rules are intended to provide greater flexibility and use of the public right of way within
the city core while encouraging a unique atmosphere for stakeholders to capitalize and
build on. Staff also seeks to prevent nuances which detract from the intent of the
certificate process and prevent usage which negatively impacts the general public and
the need for enforcement by the city and that's one of the things that we need to talk
with code enforcement and legal a little bit more is what do we do if someone is in
violation of these, what are our steps. So, several streets within the core are currently
incredibly limited on street -- streetscape frontage due to limitations imposed by two way
streets and parking. Some of the streets, such as Idaho, are among the most charming
in representational of traditional downtown and staff made all efforts to permit for
additional allowances. So, if you look through some of the standards we still allow
some of those outdoor seating areas, although they don't have a full width's right of way
or sidewalk in front of those businesses. We need to, obviously, maintain a pedestrian
way and so you can't block that, but there are some allowances made for some
hardships in the existing environment. So, the document as was provided in the packet
is just kind of an informational dump. It's everything. It's not formatted to be code. It's
not formatted to be handed out to the general public as an FAQ, it's just kind of
everything at this point. So, I wanted to get it out in front of you. I have been
coordinating with Emily Kane in legal, Tim Curns, Public Works, And Jay Givens in
Parks primarily. After that we will expand -- we will cast a little bit wider net and talk to,
like I mentioned, police department, clerks may play a role in some of this and they
have already been at one meeting -- we had a big roundtable meeting before this kicked
off and said where should we start. But now that we kind of have a starting point we will
bring those folks back together, pull bits and pieces out, some of it will go in city code,
some of it will just be informational for our property owners to say can I -- you know,
what if I want to establish an outdoor seating area, what's the process and it will explain,
at least in draft form, we are looking at a certificate of zoning verification would be the
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process that we have established. It's over the counter. It's, you know, within a couple
of days we will have that -- that application reviewed and permitted. Also of note that
we have -- what we have tried to do in this process is try to limit those things -- in fact, I
think there is maybe only one or two that may require building permits. So, these are
things where because your fence isn't as high, because your decking isn't a certain
height off the ground, you don't need building permits. Now, there may be some
plumbing, there may be some electrical permits you need for certain things, but for the
most part it's something where you can come in and within a week or so you could hire
a contractor to do, with a permit in hand, go and do whatever you're trying to do,
whether it be, again, a news stand out in front or a patio dining area. So, I think with
that I'll just see if you -- hopefully, you have all had a chance to read through this. I will
show you kind of the realm we are talking about. So, it's -- I think this really tells a good
story of what -- what we are trying to regulate and what's necessary, so -- and some of
the terminology. That was one of the things that right off the beginning we used
terminology that isn't intuitive. So, we define these things for folks and start off with this
exhibit that shows what we are talking about and when we talk about street furnishing
zone, what does that mean. Well, we are talking about lights and trees, basically.
Sometimes you can put a news stand in that area. Clear zone. That one's pretty
intuitive. But the use area really is that area between building face and that clear zone
where we envision most of these permits or requests for improvements to happen. So,
that's -- that's what we are talking about today and you don't have to give me your
comments now, but I would encourage you to review that document and send them to
either myself or Brian and we will definitely consider those as we move forward or I
guess before we get too far down the road just want to make sure we are going in the
right direction. I mean is this something you think the city should not doing and, if not,
we need to know that, too, because I don't want to invest anymore time if -- if you think
it's not broken and ACHD should continue to do their thing with license agreements with
those property owners, we can pat Brian on the back and say good job and we will
move on to other things. So, just to check in with you and -- I didn't get into a lot of the
details with the standards, but that's what we are talking about here.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Just a quick question, Caleb. I just -- I think it's page seven here on furniture.
We are talking outdoor amenities and different things, but it says vinyl and plastic
furniture is prohibited and I'm thinking, okay, what does that mean? What are they
going to put out there? Is it wood? Is it metal? I mean when you're in an outdoor
environment and is that all vinyl, all metal? Is it partial? I was just kind of curious about
that. I haven't gone through anything -- you know, talk about predominately not white,
it's less reflective, I understand that, but I was just kind of curious about --
Hood: We do have a standard, Councilman Hoaglun, Madam Mayor. We do have --
and let me see if I can find it. So, furniture -- that's where you're at on page seven.
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Tables, chairs, and benches. So, the next section down does say what types of
material is allowed, basically. So, size and shapes, we aren't regulating that. Tables,
chairs, and benches should reflect a similar style in appearance to each other.
Upholstered chairs are allowed, but are required to be maintained in good condition and
adhere to code requirements. We had it somewhere. I'm not finding it. Maybe Brian
can come up real quick. I know we had a metal standard in here before, but I'm not
able to identify it. I thought it was right there.
Hoaglun: I was just curious, because there is some -- some plastics out there and
different things that are pretty -- pretty amazing in what they do with them now and I can
see the -- white plastic chairs are not the esthetic we are going for, but at the same time
if there are some other things out there that really look good and happen to be plastic,
I'm not necessarily opposed to it, but I guess it's always in the eye of the beholder. So,
those are always tough. But I don't know if I just want to make a blanket prohibition on
anything plastic with what they do these days. So, it's one of those balancing acts.
Hood: And that's a good comment and I think it's something we can consider and put
examples, some composites that have some plastics in there may be appropriate. So,
those are the types of comments we are looking for, because we had -- and I'm not
even sure if it's still here now. We had -- we were regulating logos on umbrellas on
those areas, you know, you can't have rainbow colored umbrellas -- -maybe it's
appropriate, maybe it isn't, because it is in the eye of the beholder. So, we didn't want
to go over the top with overregulating it, but we did want to have some standards, so it's
just not, you know, pink flamingos on the sidewalk, but we drew that line and that's why
we are here is to say here is where we kind of drew the line, what do you think, is it too
much and where would you like to see a little more or where are at, so -- did you find
the furniture --
McClure: No. Madam Mayor, the intention originally was to have wood and metal in
there. At some point during the edit they got removed for whatever reason, but
definitely the consideration for plastic that looks like metal or whatever would be good,
so --
Hoaglun: Yeah. Again, it's got to be high quality stuff. I mean that's what we are
looking to make a nice esthetic -- and if that plastic doesn't look like plastic, you know.
But I will leave that to you to find if there is a way to reference that, so --
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I might relate that same thing to some philosophy we have used on some
other things with our conditions and permits and that is that if we have a plan and we
have a line that's drawn like that and I tend to agree with it, somebody that needs to go
through the permit process, if they are proposing something that we have already
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agreed with, then, their permit process is easy. We might say it's possible to appeal
something else, I mean if they have found some attractive furniture that happened to be
plastic and would survive the temperature changes that they would go through outside,
there would be a process for appealing that prohibition. That makes it a little harder for
them not to follow our original guidelines, but it does leave it open that we could
consider something if they were suggesting it.
De Weerd: And I guess it's why we are avoiding certain things, the light weight plastics
in a wind storm, you know, picks up and it becomes a hazard. I guess we want it to not
look like we are trying to take their freedoms away, but what the thought process is
behind some of the things that are discouraged. Mr. Marshall.
Marshall: I hate to add to bureaucracy, but just -- you know, I would like to see a lot of
-- a number of pre-approved options, but couldn't we handle it kind of like we do with
architecture and have a design review committee, you know, made up of the merchants
down there, self-policing almost, because aren't they going to be the people living next
door to it and they want things to look nice next to them, but they also know that they
may be next.
Hood: Yeah. And, Madam Mayor, Commissioner Marshall and Councilman Zaremba, I
think kind of a merging of what you two just said, I think that appeal may be some --
maybe it's even just -- you know, the design review committee or whatever, if -- for
certain standards if you have got plastic or something, you could -- that looks -- looks
nice. I mean who gets to decide that? Well, it's -- maybe it's not an appeal, but you
need to -- if you don't have that pre-approval, if you don't meet these standards as
written, we are not going to make it ten hoops you have to jump through, but you do
need to go to this committee and they meet within ten days or whatever and we can
make it so it's not overly rigorous to get through that process, but it still does have --
there is some checks and balances there where some standards are adhered to and if
you adhere to them you're moving on within days. If you need a little bit of help getting
through that process, we will help you through or at least consider it. So, I think some of
those comments we can work in this process and streamline it and allow for things that
are outside of what we have got written anyways.
Marshall: One other comment, Madam Mayor. Is there any option for the five foot
typical clear zone to meander, as in allowing that eight foot street furnishing zone to
actually enlarge and, then, push that close to the store and, then, back out, maybe even
be demarked somehow if it does somehow mark if it does meander. I mean -- I don't
know. It was just a thought.
Hood: Madam Mayor, Commissioner Marshall, I'd have to look at the ADA
requirements. I mean that's an ADA thing. I know you can -- it can vary back and forth.
I don't know that you need to delineate it, you just need to maintain that width and I
don't think you can 90 degree and, then, go, but you may be able to sort of have it
meander a little bit, but, again, I'm not well versed in that ADA requirement, so we
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definitely need it to be consistent and contiguous, but -- and the standards are written
where the first -- the improvement zones happen near the building first and build their
way out. You can't do your patio right in the middle and have your clear zone next to
the building. So, it is a building towards street first type approach for those
improvements. So, there may be a little meandering, but it won't be -- trying to get
through everything, so --
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Just one more comment. Where I work downtown Boise and close to 8th
Street and they have got a lot of that and it gets interesting how tight it gets some -- with
the art, with light poles, with signage, bike racks, and it gets to be almost a rat race -- it's
always a rat race down there anyway, but it is interesting where you can have some
meandering, but it's done in a way that allows just room for people to move. So, I'm
kind of interested in that, instead of everything being linear and it kind of -- would be
kind of nice. The one thing I see down there -- because I have sat under it and we
talked about page five, mechanical equipment not allowed and one of those is heaters.
can understand fans and generators, but a lot of those restaurants -- they have gas --
is that considered mechanical device that would be prohibited. I mean it kind of gives
you those shoulder days in the spring and fall to kind of allow you to still be outside, the
sun's out, but it takes the chill off a little bit and I could see where we regulate them
where how close they are to the public -- or the walking space, as opposed to the
seating area, but that's just something that I know is downtown that we -- here we are
saying it would not be allowed.
Hood: Well -- and Madam Mayor, Councilman Hoaglun, I -- Brian and I talked about
that and I'm not able to point to it, because we did talk about those dining areas that do
have that and, like I say, the fall season where those -- those propane kind of heaters
are nice. So, I don't -- I'm not able to turn to the standard. I see the mechanical
equipment prohibitions you're referencing, but I know we talked about that and I'm not --
not seeing that allowance, but that wasn't the intent. I think we do want to allow them
within here, but I would have to -- we will make a note and work on a standard there,
because I agree, I think those are nice amenities if you're going to sit outside. Misters,
too, are the other part of the year, you might be able to -- we might be able to at least
talk about them. Without infringing on freedoms, talking about -- you know, you can't
drench people as they go by, but you may be able to have some misters out there and
-- because this is a public right of way, it's for all the public, and so we aren't trying to be
detrimental to anybody that's just trying to traverse up and down on the sidewalk. So, I
will get with Brian, we will make a note, and make sure that that is something that is
allowed within these standards. So, thank you.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
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De Weerd: Yes. I see our fire marshal kind of grimacing over there.
Hood: Did I mention we are going to coordinate with other -- police and fire?
De Weerd: We do like to be warm, though. Mr: Zaremba.
Zaremba: Thank you. That was my subject.
Friedman: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Who said that? Oh.
Zaremba: Your comment about the fire marshal taking an interest in the outdoor
heaters, that's what I was going to comment on.
De Weerd: Thank you. Yes, Pete.
Friedman: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Commission Members, Council Members. You
know, just listening to this discussion I think before we start creating boards and
commissions and stuff, maybe we reverse kind of the process, come up with these
standards and, then, let's engage those downtown merchants and property owners and
say, okay, here is kind of what we have been thinking of, here is what will work for you,
what can we do to make this easier for you, what kind of things do you have available,
what vendors do you go to, that sort of thing. So, maybe they can help us kind of fine
tune this and kind of work it from that end of the process. That may be a good way to
approach it.
De Weerd: I think that's a perfect idea. We will -- I think reinforce the relationship that --
that Brian and Luke and Ashley have been trying to nurture by bringing back and say
this is kind of what we pulled together from the visits, the comments, we'd love to get
your thoughts and -- and just a comment. I thought when you told me this -- this slide
was to kind of make it in every day speak, just don't say ROW encroachment as the
title.
Hood: Everybody knows that's right of way, right?
De Weerd: And what does encroachment mean. You know. So, I -- I appreciate the
visual, but I thought the title was kind of funny.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor, your dad was a football coach. You know what encroachment
means.
Rountree: A five yard penalty.
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
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Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: That reminds me that Caleb left a question hanging and that is whether the
city wants to take an interest in doing this or leave it with ACHD and I think if ACRD is
willing to let us be involved in it, it's a personal opinion we could come up with exactly
what you're doing, which are consistent standards for it and a look that we want for it,
which are things that ACHD probably wouldn't care to take an interest in it. They either
say yes or no and that would be the end of it and I think we can bring another element
to the table that would really enhance downtown. So, I'm in favor of -- if ACHD will let
us -- license us to do this, that I'm in favor of doing it.
De Weerd: I think staff has been working diligently and -- with that conversation and,
yes, very interested in the can do attitude, instead of won't do.
Hood: And maybe just another quick tid bit on that end. In fact, we have got -- they
have got the agreement ready for us to sign, we just need a process and some
standards in place before we can take this on. They are ready to hand that over to us,
we just need to know what we are doing. So, we are working to try to get this side of
things done, so we have some code and standards and a process where somebody can
apply to the city. But, yeah, ACHD is on board and that will be before the Council here
at a future date for us to take on this, so -- thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Anything further? Thank you.
Hood: That's it for me tonight. Thank you.
Item 14: l°raditional City Core (Downtown) Outreach Report
McClure: Madam Mayor, Council, Commission, I hope you all had a chance to read the
report or are aware that it went on, but -- and I will try to be brief here. The report that
you all received is a summary of a process intended to support the Destination
Downtown plan. The traditional city core, the focus of the report, is the first district of
several that staff plans to focus efforts on. Specifically this process was a focused look
at addressing action items from the Destination Downtown implementation plan as they
apply to the traditional core. During the planning stages this process also worked to
include a broad out reach effort to stakeholders. This occurred as a result of
suggestions both by MDC and the Mayor's office. Staff's principal focus during initial
efforts was to insure that nothing listed as a goal in the plan -- that nothing seen as
good within the plan was discouraged by city policy. It addition to policy review and in
conjunction with MDC and the Mayor's office, staff visited most every property within the
traditional city core. This was to engage stakeholders and get their thoughts and
opinions on opportunities for improvement. Staff also fielded a number of general
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questions, comments, and provided appropriate follow up with the stakeholders.
Moving forward, staff has a number of proposed changes to both the Comprehensive
Plan and the design manual. This includes, as Caleb has highlighted, providing the
opportunity and ability for stakeholders to capitalize on traditional benefits as downtown
businesses within the downtown environment. We are also planning to provide MDC
with this report and prep'ing next steps for districts. Is there anything in that plan that
you would like me to discuss, go over? Are there any general questions or comments
or -- kind of make this short and leave it up to you guys, so -- any suggestions for
moving forward?
De Weerd: I think some of the previous discussion I think encapsulated some of the
ideas for moving forward, but I would certainly like to commend you, Brian, for the work
that you have put into this. I know it went a long way to the downtown businesses, the
more personal approach and that out reach. It was greatly appreciated. And I think
what you have captured in your documents has been -- it mirrors some of the comments
that I have heard and just to follow up, touch base, this is kind of the result of our
discussions -- will go a long way as well. Any other comments outside of what we have
already discussed?
Rountree: Just move forward towards implementation. I guess, Madam Mayor, one
suggestion I would have is that there is transition in businesses downtown. It might be
good just to kind of follow up and bring these -- the new tenants or the new owners into
what's going on.
De Weerd: Although when you -- when you get out into the community I think there is
going to still be the remains of another activity that's going on in downtown and it's
going to be the split corridor and the resurfacing. So, you might want to wear body
armor or -- I think there is just some -- still some lingering concerns and questions and I
don't know how best to address that, other than, you know, that's two separate
activities, but collect those comments and continued questions.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I just would comment that much of the recent discussion on the split corridor,
phase two in particular, has been about the what and the how that it's going to happen.
There hasn't been that much about why it's happening and I -- some of the push back
that we get is, you know, why are we tearing up this street and Ihave -- I would offer if
you want to sit down with me sometime -- I was on the committee that came up with that
idea. The downtown transportation plan committee was the result of the downtown
marketing plan committee -- marketing plan was like nine years ago and the
transportation plan was like seven years ago and I was on -- it was a joint effort
between the city and ACRD. There is some very good reasons for why we came up
with what we did and what we considered and I would be happy to sit down and talk -- if
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you're getting those kind of questions, I can help you with the answers and so that we
aren't making a battle out of it, because there is some very good reasons to be doing
what we are doing and I certainly understand the pain that we will go through for the six
to nine months that it's happening, but there is some good reasons for the end results
that I would be happy to support you with.
McClure: I appreciate that. Thank you.
De Weerd: Well -- and you're so good, Brian, with visual -- I still think there are still
some downtown businesses that think we are going to have a one way grid. They
haven't quite grasped what the split corridor is and, again, with your right of way
encroachment pictures, you are able to show that very nicely and if there is a better way
-- even -- you look at the diagrams or the pictures we have now, it still doesn't really
show what this means to them and maybe armed with better visuals that that can help
answer some of those questions, too.
McClure: Okay.
De Weerd: Maybe you need to just bring Public Works and ACHD with you.
McClure: Madam Mayor, I did bring Tim Curns with me when we visited split corridor
properties and they actually had no questions regarding it. They were actually excited,
the ones we talked to, sans one. We had one business owner that was pretty upset
about it. We actually had a few residential people further down Meridian that were
looking forward to it, because they would get wider sidewalks and the tree in the front
yard would be gone and -- it was rather surprising.
De Weerd: Well, that's refreshing. Okay.
Friedman: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Pete.
Friedman: One other thing that Brian didn't mention too much is, you know, we would
acknowledge the great work that he and the other folks who were involved with this
done. We are actually moving on now into another area and so we are embarking yet
on another process to further implement the Destination Downtown. It's going to have a
little bit different focus on it, little bit different process, but, again, it will be some of the
same staff people and players involved in it and so when that process concludes we will
be back to you with another report. So, just to let you know that this thing isn't static
and we are taking it in steps as we move along.
De Weerd: That's great. And I know that it's appreciated as well. Just additionally you
have your follow up with our business community, but also with MDC. I would share
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what is in front of Council and Commission to ask for their feedback as well. Okay. If
there isn't anything further, I would like to thank you, Brian.
McClure: Thank you.
Item 15: Open Discussion
De Weerd: Item 15. Open discussion. Is there anything from the Commission or the
Council -- other topics you would like to get together to discuss, any follow up to what
was presented tonight, or any general comments?
Freeman: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Freeman.
Freeman: If my mike is on. We don't often get the opportunity to sit with the Council
and it occurs to me sometimes during and after our own Commission hearings -- often
during our hearings the balance of opinion in my own mind shifts up and down while we
are taking public testimony and applicant testimony and I usually leave thinking, okay,
we have made the best decision. But sometimes I wonder have we made the best
decision and I often find myself wondering if City Council, when they come-- then come
before you -- because often what we are doing is just making recommendations to you.
Have you ever been surprised by something that we have come up with, as if to think
what are they thinking or, boy, they really need to get with the program. I'm just curious
if -- if you tend to understand what we have done, the decisions that we have made, or if
there have been any cases in any of your minds where, you know, maybe we need to
sit down and talk about what's in the best interest of the city. It's a great process. I love
the process. I love the fact that the balance of my own opinion changes during some of
these hearings and I think the process is doing its job. But often people leave upset.
That's the nature of it. And I just want to get your feedback on some of the
recommendations we have sent to you, if there was anything in your mind that stands
out or anything you would like to communicate to us as far as that goes.
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree?
Rountree: Madam Mayor and Scott, I -- first off, I know where you're coming from,
because I did somewhere between eight and 12 years on Planning and Zoning, so I can
appreciate your comment and sometimes you don't know -- and you don't get the
feedback about the decisions or the recommendations you make. From my perspective
your recommendations are -- are the foundation of -- what does the application do with
respect to the ordinances and the planning and zoning requirements and in that regard I
think you guys do a great job. In fact, I think you do a great job on all of it, but that's --
kind of that's where your jurisdiction lies. Do these applications meet these zoning
maps, zoning requirements, land use requirements and those kinds of things. Now,
when we get them we -- we have some -- way more flexibility than you all do in terms of
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how to interpret that or even waiving or varying those kinds of things. So, sometimes
you will see us make a decision that might not necessarily be in alignment with yours,
but it might be taking yours and, then softening it so we have fewer people leave the
room upset, if you will.
Freeman: Sure.
Rountree: But I think you guys do a tremendous job and I have always felt that
Planning and Zoning Commissions do a good job, even when I had to go before them
one time and explain to them the kinds of comments they shouldn't make in a public
forum about the City Council. But that was one occurrence and that was many, many,
many years ago. Well, Ithink -- it's a tough job, because the reality is you really are not
making the final decision, but you're making the best decision you can given the
constraints of the documents and the ordinances and the information that you can act
on and I think you do a tremendous job and I don't know that we overturn, major
modified many of your decisions at all, other than, you know, occasionally we will -- we
will ask for a way to soften or maybe stretch an ordinance or maybe to the point where
your decision is the right decision based on our ordinance, but we might feel that given
the circumstance and ordinance you might need to be changed, so we get into that
process so we don't have to put you and ourselves in that situation again. So, I can't
think of a -- I can't think of a time in recent years where there has really been -- in my
mind where I have thought you guys are way out in left field. Ithink you're spot on.
Freeman: Thank you for the feedback.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I just wanted to comment, I'm hoping there was times that you don't see us
where you issued a denial and, then, we approved going what did they do that for.
What I find in those instances is where you guys have denied something, that has made
the applicant go back to the drawing board and redo some things and they come
forward with a little tweaked proposal that allows us to do some things that gives them
the approval to move forward. So, oftentimes that has helped us reach an agreement
and you guys were sound in your decision saying, you know, that's -- that's not --
shouldn't go forward that way and they have gone back, taken that advice, and tweaked
it to where it allowed us to do some of the things that Councilman Rountree mentioned
in finding some areas that -- of agreement that we can make it work. So, it works out
pretty well. So, I hope you don't take it the other way that, gee, they just tossed out
another one where -- and oftentimes I find it's the ones that you have denied that they
have come back and gone to some great length in some instances to make it work. So,
that -- I hope you don't see us throwing some of those things out, because it really is a
different --different situation in many of those instances.
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De Weerd: Well -- and just to clarify, if it's a substantial change it will come back to you.
Hoaglun: Yes.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I just was going to say, do you want those back, Scott?
Freeman: We care not to if possible. Especially the tough ones.
De Weerd: I think you guys summarize well before your motions, which helps to see
what the thinking is. I believe, then, staff does capture that in the staff report under
outstanding issues. So, Council can focus on maybe some of the topics that came out
of your discussion that there might have been a concern that you don't feel that you can
be talking about it at your level, that it needs to be something brought up at the City
Council level, so, you know, all of that is extremely helpful in bringing it up to the Council
level and, then, making their determinations and their decisions. So, your dialogue is
appreciated and it is paid attention to.
Freeman: There is -- go ahead.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor, I -- all of that, what's been said already, I thoroughly agree
with. I just wanted to add and make sure it's on the record how much lappreciate -- you
guys are volunteers and you do this voluntarily and you do it thoroughly and you do it
with concern and to me you're recommendations very important and as has been said,
there may be reasons why the situation changed after you made your recommendation
and we considered that as well. But I trust your work and I appreciate your work and I
want to make sure everybody knows you are volunteers that are doing this and very
faithfully and very helpfully. So, I depend on that.
De Weerd: They get a turkey every year. Come on.
Freeman: Madam Mayor, I did not get a turkey this year.
De Weerd: Oh, you didn't?
Freeman: No.
O'Brien: I think it's next month.
De Weerd: No. It's next month.
Zaremba: Yeah. It's for Christmas, not Thanksgiving.
De Weerd: And I would say, too, three of the four of us that served on Planning and
Zone. So, we have been there done that and we even have the T-shirt. Did you get
one?
Meridian City Council & Planning and Zoning Joint Meeting
November 29, 2011
Page 33 of 37
Freeman: Madam Mayor, there is one other question. I don't know if this is the format
for it, but I just wanted to bring it up, because it's come up in our public testimony before
and it has to do with our notification radius at 300 feet and I don't know if that's dictated
to us by the state or if that's something we have any flexibility to change if we want to.
But often the public feels that, you know, 300 foot radius isn't adequate, because I'm
near enough to this project that it impacts me, but I'm 400 feet away or I'm 600 feet
away. The other side of that is I understand the reality of changing that radius to like
1,000 feet or a mile, it literally changes the notification amounts to ten times what it is in
a 300 foot radius. But I just want to throw that out there as something that maybe we
would want to discuss, because it does seem to be a bone of contention with some of
the public when we -- when we get into these hearings.
De Weerd: Yeah. And we are glad you have to explain it first.
Freeman: Yes. Thank you.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I might address part of that is that one of the reasons we
require that big sign on the property is just for that reason. That's another form of
notification. It's also in the newspaper.
Freeman: Understood.
Rountree: And I think that the 300 foot is -- is statute and we are following statute. Our
fees are based on the effort and the cost related to those kinds of things and if you go
much beyond that, as you indicated, the fees for advertising and mailing and notification
are huge. And, again, that's one of the reasons why we don't pursue it and -- but one of
the reasons -- another reason is why we require notification in the newspapers and why
we require the signs, the bigger signs. I mean they could put signs like that on their
properties, but the bigger ones are for people to drive by and say, hey, something's
going on and ask and those people that are telling you they are concerned about the
notification are the same people that are here testifying, which is a good thing. They got
the notification.
Freeman: Yeah. Madam Mayor, Councilman Rountree, I -- we do often have to remind
the public at the hearings that notification is given in three different formats and I am
actually glad to hear that that's statute, because that gives us I believe -- I'm not a
lawyer, obviously, but I don't think that's something we have flexibility to change and so
we can -- we can rest assured -- and I think that's a pretty typical distance, too, looking
at other --
Rountree: It's in the state statute I believe.
Freeman: Okay.
Meridian City Council & Planning and Zoning Joint Meeting
November 29, 2011
Page 34 of 37
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council and the Commission, yeah, it is a state
statute. There are certain types of notifications for certain types of applications that you
see greater notice -- comp plan amendments and things like that can receive greater
notice. But the concerns would always be the same. Someone will live 301 feet away,
someone will live 1,001 foot away, so we do try to adhere as closely to the statute,
because it is at least a benchmark that the state legislature has determined is
appropriate and as Council Member Rountree stated, that is the purpose of there is
three different methods of notification and actually four when you look that there is an
actual online tool that people can actually subscribe to to receive notification of all our
agendas. But the state statute requires signs on the property. It requires notification in
your official newspaper, as well as the mailed notice within the 300 foot radius and I
think, honestly, the best comment was that the purpose of notice is to get the person
there to tell you what they think. Usually they are there telling you what they think that
they didn't get notice, but they just didn't get notice to their house and the reality was
they got notice in some form or they wouldn't have been there. If they have some
reason that their lack of getting it to their house impacts their ability to provide you
adequate information, that's a fair statement on their part and that's a fair inquiry on the
part of the Commission on whether or not they need additional time to provide whatever
information is necessary. But if we deviate beyond that statute we will be setting
ourselves up for failure, because we are going to miss somebody, it's going to get
missed in some fashion and I think as the Council has stated, we geared all our fees to
those requirements and it would just increase the costs of those fees for the applicant.
Freeman: I can close the door on that question. Thank you very much.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
Nary: You can steer them to Mr. Baird or myself that's sitting over here in those
Commission meetings if you need to, so --
Freeman: Thank you.
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I just -- I vaguely remember that we may have discussed this a long time ago
or maybe when I was on the Planning and Zoning Commission, but I wonder if in the
letter of notification we could add a paragraph that says: This letter is being sent to
every property owner of record within 300 feet. If you are a member of a homeowners
association would you, please, notify your board of this letter. I mean it's just a way to
spread the word without any additional cost if we could add a paragraph like that. I
don't know if that's legal or even wise. Just expressing an opinion.
Meridian City Council & Planning and Zoning Joint Meeting
November 29, 2011
Page 35 of 37
De Weerd: I think it's an excellent idea. One other comment I would make is there are
some old signs out there and we -- people start ignoring them, because they are five
years old. If -- we need to go out and do a major clean up and so, then, when a sign
pops up it actually might pop out at someone and they might even read it. So, we need
some clean up.
Friedman: We will pass that on -- we will have discussions with code on that.
De Weerd: Okay. I'm sure maybe Lieutenant Leslie might bring that back, too. So,
anything further?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Your last comment brought something to mind and I think it would probably
be beneficial for both these bodies. The activities in direction and efforts on the part of
MDC -- yeah, we get the minutes of the meetings and occasionally -- what is it, quarterly
or every six months we get the administrator here to give us kind of an update of what's
gone on and what's going on. But it would be good just to have like every couple
months from some member of MDC just to give us a short synopsis of what's going on
and the issues they are facing. I know it's a private corporation, but the bottom line is is
this body underwrites any efforts that might go south with that group and be kind of nice
to know firsthand what's going on early, instead of having to wait for minutes and final
discussion and et cetera. I know your meetings always open and I'm free to attend.
De Weerd: Absolutely.
Rountree: But I just don't seem to get up that early in the morning.
De Weerd: Not a good excuse.
Rountree: I'm sure P&Z would like to know and hear some of the things that are going
on with that group, particularly with efforts in downtown and those kind of things.
De Weerd: We could maybe -- well, I don't know. We will have to look at that one.
don't know if they -- they want to pay their administrator to come. It is extra time to
create another report. Our staff is there. I guess if there is anything that seems of
importance or urgent -- read your minutes.
Rountree: It's another way to get that information public. Well, I'm -- it's been an issue
and I think the more exposure it gets, particularly as you get into more things, the better
it's going to be. Just a comment.
Meridian City Council & Planning and Zoning Joint Meeting
November 29, 2011
Page 36 of 37
De Weerd: Anything further?
O'Brien: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. O'Brien.
O'Brien: Commissioners. Is there a mechanism in to provide the Commissioners
meetings such as this, so that we could have advance notice that there is something out
there that we should read? Because like Steve and I, we didn't know that this
information that we went through tonight was available and is there -- are we supposed
to be notified of -- of this agenda and the things that we are supposed to be looking at,
since I had no idea what we were going to be discussing, other than the agenda itself.
Holman: Madam Mayor? Madam Mayor, Members of the Council and Commissioners,
we put that location in -- where we normally put your information for a P&Z meeting out
on the web link. We copied the file to City Council and to you folks. Probably what we
failed to do is to send you an a-mail telling you it's going to be there, just like it would
any other P&Z meeting.
O'Brien: I don't remember getting anything like that that was a message there, so
never looked.
Holman: Right. That's what I said. We didn't notify you it was there, we just put it out
there like we normally do for a P&Z meeting, but in the future we will send you an a-mail
and let you know if there is a joint meeting that we will put the documents in both
places.
O'Brien: That would be great. Appreciate that very much. Thank you. And just a quick
comment, too. I'm sorry. About this 300 foot deal. One of the major issues that came
up was things that are -- that are high, like cell towers and things of that nature that are
a certain height, people that were notified. But I think Councilman Zaremba had a good
idea about notifying homeowner associations and stuff to get the message out that
people that were a mile away are going to be affected by these towers that are going
up and we have people come there and say exactly what you said, we came here
specifically just to complain about the fact that we weren't notified. So, I think that's
important. So, that's all I have. Thank you very much.
De Weerd: Thank you. Anything further?
Yearsley: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Yearsley.
Meridian City Council & Planning and Zoning Joint Meeting
November 29, 2011
Page 37 of 37
Yearsley: I'm just coming up on my first year on the Planning and Zoning and I just
want to thank you for allowing me to be on this Commission. I have learned a lot and
it's been a lot of fun and I look forward to continued service. So, just thank you.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor, I will ask Steve. You mean it's more fun than the Parks
Commission?
Yearsley: Well, I don't know about that. But it's been a lot of learning process and it's
been very interesting and appreciate you allowing me to be on this Commission.
De Weerd: Well, we appreciate your dedication and your continued service and I know
you don't hear it often enough and probably not very often at all, but you are greatly
appreciated. Your preparation, your willingness to serve for just the turkey that you will
get next month.
Rountree: Would you like that frozen or smoked?
Freeman: Smoked.
De Weerd: So, if there is nothing further, I would entertain a motion to adjourn.
Rountree: So moved.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to adjourn. I will call this for both City Council
and the Commission. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: We are adjourned.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 8:55 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF HESE PROCEEDINGS)
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