HomeMy WebLinkAbout2011-08-16E IDIAN~
IDAHO!
CITY COUNCIL REGULAR
MEETING AGENDA
UPDATED AGENDA
Tuesday, August 16, 2011 at 7:00 PM
1. Roll-Call Attendance
X David Zaremba X Brad Hoaglun
X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
2. Pledge of Allegiance (Pg. 1)
3. Community Invocation by Darrell Taylor with Ten Mile Christian
Church (Pg. 1-2)
4. Adoption of the Agenda Adopted (Pg. 2)
5. Consent Agenda Approved (Pg. 2-3)
A. Approval of and Award of a No-Cost In-Building
Telecommunications Agreement to T-Mobile and Authorize the
Mayor to Sign
B. Development Agreement for Approval: MDA 10-008 Regency
at River Valley by Bach Investments, LLC Located at 2500 N.
Eagle Road Request: Modify the Site Plan, Landscape Plan,
Building Elevations and Certain Provisions Contained in the
Development Agreement Approved for the Regency at River
Valley Apartment Project (Replaces Instrument No. 111022580)
C. Agreement with Lexipol, LLC for Use of Subscription Material
for the Police Department
D. NPDES Permit Presentation & Task Order. Award of Task
Order No. 10264 to HDR Engineering, Inc. for NPDES Permit
Strategy and Technical Assistance for the Not-To-Exceed
Amount of $107,950.00
Item was moved to Department Reports as Item 8B1(Pg. 13-23)
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda -Tuesday, August 16, 2011 Page 1 of 3
All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearing,
please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting.
E. License Agreement Between City of Meridian and Rock of
Honor Memorial, Inc. for Joint Use of Rock of Honor Plaza in
Julius M. Kleiner Memorial Park for aNot-to-Exceed Amount of
$1.00
F. Lease Agreement Between the City of Meridian and Think-Tank
Co-Operative, LLC for the Property Located at 33 East Idaho
Avenue
G. Resolution No. 11-799: Approving Lease of 33 East Idaho
Avenue
6. Items Moved From Consent Agenda None (Pg. 3)
7. Action Items
A. Public Hearing: TE 11-003 Messina Meadows Subdivision by
Brighton Corporation Located North of E. Amity Road; Midway
Between S. Locust Grove Road and S. Eagle Road Request:
Two (2) Year Time Extension on the Preliminary Plat
Continued to August 23, 2011 (Pg. 3-4)
8. Department Reports
A. Parks/Legal Departments: Lions Club Rodeo Ada County CUP
Conditions of Approval: Right of Way Dedication (Pg. 4-6)
B. Public Works: Biosolids Lime Stabilization Demonstration
Project (Pg. 6-13)
1. Moved from the Consent Agenda as Item 5D: NPDES
Permit Presentation 8~ Task Order. Award of Task Order
No. 10264 to HDR Engineering, Inc. for NPDES Permit
Strategy and Technical Assistance for the Not-To-
Exceed Amount of $107,950.00 -Approved
C. Building Services: Award of Agreement for Automatic
Temperature Control System to ClimaTech Corporation for the
Not-To-Exceed Amount of $479,441.00 Approved (Pg. 23-25)
D. Legal Department: Taxicab Mobile Sales Unit License
Ordinance Discussion No decision was made and the topic
will return for additional discussion in September (Pg. 25-31)
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda -Tuesday, August 16, 2011 Page 2 of 3
All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearing,
please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting.
E. Legal Department: Proposed Addition of Mutual Hold
Harmless Clause to Memorandum of Agreement Designating
Boise City/Ada County Housing Authority as City's Agent to
Purchase Housing and Urban Development (HUD) Dollar
Homes Approved (Pg. 31-32)
9. Future Meeting Topics
• A request from residents of the Tuscany Subdivision has
been received regarding a petition about the proposed
water reservoir. They will be contacted and scheduled to
be heard at a City Council meeting in September (Pg. 32-33)
Amended onto the Agenda
10. Executive Session per Idaho State Code 67-2345(1)(b) - To Consider
the Evaluation, Dismissal or Disciplining of, or to Hear Complaints or
Charges Brought Against, a Public Officer, Employee, Staff Member
or Individual Agent, or Public School Student (Pg. 33-34)
Into Executive Session at 8:42 PM
Out of Executive Session at 9:27 PM
Adjourned at 9:27 PM
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda -Tuesday, August 16, 2011 Page 3 of 3
All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearing,
please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting.
Meridian City Council Meeting August 16, 2011
A meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:25 p.m., Tuesday,
August 16, 2011, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, David Zaremba, Keith Bird, Brad Hoaglun
and Charlie Rountree.
Others Present: Bill Nary, Jacy Jones, James Leslie, Warren Stewart, Mark Niemeyer,
Steve Siddoway, Tom Barry, John McCormick, Mollie Mangerich, Robert Simison, and
Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
X David Zaremba X Brad Hoaglun
X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
De Weerd: I will go ahead and call this meeting to order and would like to welcome all
of you in attendance. We appreciate you joining us. For the record, it is Tuesday,
August 16th. It's 7:00 p.m. Tonight we will start with roll call attendance.
Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance
De Weerd: Item No. 2 is our Pledge of Allegiance. If you will all rise and join us in our
pledge.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
Item 3: Community Invocation by Darrell Taylor with Ten Mile Christian
Church
De Weerd: Item No. 3 is our community invocation. Tonight we will be led by Darrell
Taylor and he is with Ten Mile Christian Church. If you will all join us in the community
invocation or take this as an opportunity for a moment of reflection. Thank you for
joining us.
Taylor: Thank you. Well, Gracious Father, we are so truly thankful for all the many
blessings you have given us, this beautiful day, we just thank you, Lord, and we rejoice
in it and, Father, now as this meeting begins we just ask, Lord, for your wisdom and
your guidance and as the decisions are made and, Father, we do ask for watch care
over those that are protecting our country, that are at home or abroad, that you will just
bless and strengthen them away from their families and, Father, keep them safe.
Meridian City Council
August 16, 2011
Page 2 of 34
Father, for this community we just thank you, Lord, for the men and women that are
dedicated to keeping it safe and to make the decisions for it to be a very wondertul
place to raise a family and just --just to be here. And, Father, again, we are just so truly
thankful for this day and ask for your guidance and strength as we live day by day for
you and we just pray this is Jesus' name, amen.
Item 4: Adoption of the Agenda
De Weerd: Thank you. Item No. 4 is adoption of the agenda.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: A couple of changes for tonight's agenda. Under Consent Agenda, Item 5-D,
that -- we have a staff request to move that to Department Reports, so we will move that
to follow Item 8-B. So, 5-D from the Consent Agenda is now 8-B-1. Also under the
Consent Agenda, 5-G, is resolution number 11-799. Under Item 7, Action Items, A, the
public hearing, the applicants request that to continue to August 23rd. As I noted under
Department Reports, we now have a 5-D after 8-B and also we want to add an
Executive Session under Idaho Code 67-2345(1)(a) at the very end of the meeting. So,
with that, Madam Mayor, I move adoption of the agenda as amended.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion
carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 5: Consent Agenda
A. Approval of and Award of a No-Cost In-Building
Telecommunications Agreement to T-Mobile and Authorize the
Mayor to Sign
B. Development Agreement for Approval: MDA 10-008 Regency
at River Valley by Bach Investments, LLC Located at 2500 N.
Eagle Road Request: Modify the Site Plan, Landscape Plan,
Building Elevations and Certain Provisions Contained in the
Development Agreement Approved for the Regency at River
Valley Apartment Project (Replaces Instrument No. 111022580)
C. Agreement with Lexipol, LLC, for Use of Subscription Material
for the Police Department
Meridian City Council
August 16, 2011
Page 3 of 34
E. License Agreement Between City of Meridian and Rock of
Honor Memorial, Inc. for Joint Use of Rock of Honor Plaza in
Julius M. Kleiner Memorial Park for aNot-to-Exceed Amount of
$1.00
F. Lease Agreement Between the City of Meridian and Think-Tank
Co-Operative, LLC for the Property Located at 33 East Idaho
Avenue
G. Resolution No. 11-799: Approving Lease of 33 East Idaho
Avenue
De Weerd: Item No. 5.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: For the Consent Agenda, as noted 5-D has been moved to Department
Reports and 5-G is resolution number 11-799. I move approval of the Consent Agenda
as amended and the Mayor to sign and Clerk to attest.
Zaremba: Second.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda with the
removal of Item D to the regular agenda. Madam Clerk, will you, please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 6: Items Moved From Consent Agenda
De Weerd: There were no items -- well, there was an item moved from the Consent
Agenda, but it's under a different section.
Item 7: Action Items
A. Public Hearing: TE 11-003 Messina Meadows Subdivision by
Brighton Corporation Located North of E. Amity Road; Midway
Between S. Locust Grove Road and S. Eagle Road Request:
Two (2) Year Time Extension on the Preliminary Plat
Meridian City Council
August 16, 2011
Page 4 of 34
De Weerd: So, we will move to Item 7-A. 7-A is a public hearing on TE 11-003. The
applicant has requested to continue this item to August 23rd, but I will open the public
hearing and ask Council for a motion to continue.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we continue Item 7-A to August 23rd, 2011.
Bird: Second.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to continue Item 7-A. All those in favor say
aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 8: Department Reports
A. ParkslLegal Departments: Lions Club Rodeo Ada County CUP
Conditions of Approval: Right of Way Dedication
De Weerd: Okay. Under Item 8, Department Reports, we will start with our Parks
Department and invite Mr. Siddoway forward.
Siddoway: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. For your discussion
tonight is the Lion's Club rodeo Conditional Use Permit through Ada county for the
rodeo. They have conditions of approval on their -- their application that we are
prepared to address with Council tonight. They are moving forward and Doug Beehler
can talk about this, but -- with the paving of the driveway apron for 30 feet that is -- is
required. One of the conditions of approval on the -- their Conditional Use Permit is
regarding the dedication of right of way along Cherry Lane. We have Gary Inselman in
the audience tonight from ACHD and it's my understanding that ACHD is prepared to
defer the dedication of that right of way until such time that either the park develops or
there is a roadway widening project for Cherry Lane and we will dedicate at that time.
With that I'd like to just acknowledge that both Doug Beehler and Dick Cook are here
from the Lion's Club rodeo and, Doug, I would invite you up to the microphone to
address the Council and, then, we would invite Gary Inselman just to speak on behalf of
ACHD and we will take any questions from Council.
De Weerd: Thank you. Good evening, Doug.
Meridian City Council
August 16, 2011
Page 5 of 34
Beehler: Good evening. Doug Beehler, 556 Knob Hill Court, Eagle. If I recall I have to
give you that information.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Beehler: You're welcome. Basically, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, we --
when we applied for our permit to pave the -- or asphalt the entry and do a little paving
as a condition of approval for the entryway to the rodeo grounds, that's when ACHD
said that we need to get the right of way from the city first before they can issue the
permit and so that's what started the process of the right of way discussion and my
understanding, as well as Steve's, is that that will be delayed as far as the right of way
and all of that. As a matter of fact, the permit has been issued for the asphalt and that's
in the process of being scheduled. So, as far as I understand the right of way will be
something that happens down the road when the widening of Cherry Lane is supposed
to happen.
De Weerd: But it's our understanding, too, and we will just ask Mr. Inselman to put that
on the public record just to tie up any loose ends, but thank you. Any questions for
Doug, Council?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: I have none. Thanks, Doug
De Weerd: Thank you for being here.
Beehler:, Thank you.
Rountree: What did the market do today?
Beehler: Pardon me?
Rountree: What did the market do today?
Beehler: It was down just a little bit. You better get your money in fast
De Weerd: Get your money in fast. Okay.
Inselman: Mayor and Council, Gary Inselman, development services manager for Ada
County Highway District, 3775 North Adams, Garden City. I'd just like to confirm what
Steve had testified to, with the agreement in place between the highway district and the
city and the fact that it will be a future city park and we are happy to defer the
acquisition until at such time as the city's ready to dedicate it or develop the park or we
have a road widening project, but I'm sure that's far out in our plans, so -- if you have
any questions I would be happy to answer them.
Meridian City Council
August 16, 2011
Page 6 of 34
De Weerd: Any questions, Council?
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I don't have a question, I have a comment. Gary, if you
would extend our appreciation to your staff and if your board had action, to -- to come to
reason on this particular issue. It seems to me that we -- we probably spend a little too
much time jawing about it and scratching our head and wondering why we got into this
position, but we appreciate you guys taking the sane approach and moving forward with
it and not causing any further delay.
De Weerd: Your staff reacted very quickly, worked with Mr. Siddoway and got the letter
off to the county in record time. So, those efforts were greatly appreciated.
Inselman: Thank you very much.
Bird: Thank you, Gary.
De Weerd: Okay. Steve, anything further?
Siddoway: With that understanding we no longer have to relocate the ditch, which was
one of the requirements when we do dedicate that right of way. So, just so Council is
aware, at some point in the future when we do dedicate the right of way we will need to
relocate a ditch that runs along Cherry Lane, but we now have until we are ready to
develop the park to do that. So, thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. And I would note in the audience is our representative for the
Rock of Honor and also for the city -- former City Hall project. You guys were on the
Consent Agenda, so you don't even have to be here, but you're welcome and it's great
seeing your faces in the audience. So, thank you for joining us.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: This subject generates a resolution. Do we need to deal with that tonight or
calendar it for a future meeting? I see a resolution about this.
Siddoway: Madam Mayor, Councilman Zaremba, that action can be tabled indefinitely
until we are ready to dedicate the right of way. The resolution before you is the first
step needed in order to post notice to dedicate the right of way, so it's a notice of intent.
We no longer need that acted on tonight.
Zaremba: Okay. Thank you.
Siddoway: Thank you.
Meridian City Council
August 16, 2011
Page 7 of 34
B. Public Works: Biosolids Lime Stabilization Demonstration
Project
De Weerd: Okay. Item No. 8-B is Public Works Department on the biosolids lime
stabilization demonstration project. Say that really fast.
Barry: We don't normally have our -- we are not normally without our technical folks
running the system over there. We have an engineer this evening running it, so it could
take awhile.
Rountree: We are in trouble.
De Weerd: Oh, that's the problem.
Stewart: The problem is my instruction.
Barry: Thank you. Fantastic. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, thank you this
evening for hearing this item. We thought we would bring to you tonight an exciting
opportunity for the City of Meridian, particularly Public Works, and that is the opportunity
to pilot a new technology, new sort of in biosolids, composting, so soil amendment and
most of this presentation will be delivered by Mollie Mangerich, our environmental
programs manager for the department. But I wanted to give you a little bit of
background before we launch too far into the technical components and the other
exciting components of this project. You may recall that some years ago -- a couple
years ago -- in 2009, actually -- we had a couple of -- we made an attempt to try to
investigate whether or not composting had aviable -- was a viable option for the City of
Meridian. Some of the reasons for pursuing composting as a community were not just
that it was included in our mission and vision statement as part of the Public Works
Department for our sustainability goals, but also the cost of biosolids disposal for the
department number is around 150,000 dollars a year. We figured that the impact to the
landfill, as well as the cost to the rate payers at about 150,000 a year, were both pretty
impacfful and so we wanted to look for alternative ways to discard our -- our biosolids
and actually turn that waste into a product. What we have done in 2009 and into 2010
is we did a market and -- a market assessment and a preliminary concept study and we
attempted to secure a pilot in composting last year. We were unsuccessful last year.
We carried forward the money this year and by the time we tried -- by the time the pilot
was available to us it had increased 50 percent in cost, so -- and we had done some
additional research and found out there was some other problems associated with the
type of composting that we were going to pursue. So, we kind of shelved the idea until
recently when myself and a couple of staff members went to the city of Coeur d'Alene to
look at nutrient -- low nutrient removal processes at treatment plants, particularly in light
of what's coming our way with the NPDES permitting for ultra low phosphorus removal
and while we were up in Coeur d'Alene we were turned onto the manager of a compost
facility up there who introduced us to a new technology that they are actually
investigating as well called lime stabilization and that's what's led us to tonight's
discussion with you and the discussion about for what our intent is with this pilot project
Meridian City Council
Augusl16,2011
Page 8 of 34
that is now available to us and we hope to have here in October of this year free of
charge to the city. So, with that, kicking off that history and getting us ready for the
remainder of the discussion, I'll turn this over to Mollie.
Mangerich: Great. I have always enjoyed working within the composting aspects of my
employment in previous years, but I have mostly dealt with yard waste and wood waste,
so this is a good foray that we are able to have this technology come our way and to
provide us a wonderful demonstration project for no fee. I'd like to just take a quick
background into our traditional composting. We were originally trying to look at green
waste composting, along with our biosolids in an open windrow fashion where some
more equipment would have been -- had to have been purchased and utilized to flip
those windrows over, add air to the pile, we would have had to add water to the pile, so
it would have taken a lot of space, a lot of equipment, and a lot of staffing resources.
So, it was a great timing that this technology, which is widely used, particularly back
east, has come across our path. The owner of this biosolid lime stabilization process is
bringing up their mobile equipment to us at the beginning of -- or at the end of October
to let us try that for a few days. What's great about this process in regards to the
traditional composting is that the end is class A biosolids, no pathogens -- a very high
pathogen -- like rats, birds, et cetera, is pasturized and there is very few restrictions of
where we can use this product, as opposed to the long time it takes to make class A
biosolids of composting the regular yard waste. The scope of our demonstration project
is pretty unique. The equipment is coming to us from a national trade show in Los
Angeles on a 45 foot bed truck to trailer rig. They are able to put this equipment right at
our wastewater treatment plant in one of our existing dry beds. They will provide us all
the chemicals, which is lime and, then, a bit of sulfamic acid and two staff persons for
the duration of the week in which they will step up, help us operate, show us how to
operate and, then, take all the equipment down. So, very excellent customer service at
the same time. This is an actual picture of the equipment while they are ready to go on
the road. As for the city in regards to the previous pilot program we were looking at, we
are providing the location, they are providing all the staffing. Have one operator in a
front-end loader that we can provide where we will actually be adding the biosolids into
a hopper, which will go into the reactor, at which time their people will add the lime and
the acid and close the reactor and, then, for a certain time temp combination they are
going to let that process have a very high heat time period to it and exit a class A
biosolid. So, we are excited to see how this works and how many through puts we take
out within a three day period. We are also going to do quite a bit of analytical testing,
both pre and post on this, so the grass clippings that come in we are going to be looking
at some pretty worrisome pesticides that can hang out in traditional composing, very
popular herbicides, broad leaf based herbicides. We are going to look at the nitrogen,
the potassium, carbon content, present solids, organic content. We are going to run
entire panel on metals, we are going to include mercury -- so, we will have a full
analytical result of the materials pre and post, which will be great. Another benefit of
this particular composting or process technology is that under EPA requirements
through this lime stabilization process, we can consistently meet the class Astandard --
the highest standard of biosolid composting or treatment provided by EPA. We can do
it in a faction of space required that is required of more traditional composting
Meridian City Council
August 16, 2011
Page 9 of 34
technologies. As well, we will be able to see over time now with the timing of this pilot
what it costs to operate this type of equipment, the materials needed for the input for the
stabilization process, compare that to what we are currently paying for disposal of our
digested biosolids and, then, when the Ada County Landfill moves from a volume base
to a tonnage base rate for disposal, how those numbers work out. So, the timing of this
pilot is great, because it can have a nice spreadsheet in terms of the cost benefits. I
have included just a picture of their brochure of the equipment. The appendage that
you see -- a nice aspect to this technology is that it comes with its own air scrubber, so
as a result there is not going to be any air emissions and, in fact, with normal
composting you get kind of a biological odor, kind of a smell of pumice or rot going on,
which is normal for that kind of thermophilic reaction happening, but in here they tell us
it smells a little bit like wet concrete. So, we will see what that smells like. We will --
De Weerd: Wet concrete versus rot.
Mangerich: Yeah. Versus rot
De Weerd: Okay.
Mangerich: It's a subjectivity scale. My preference is concrete, but -- and, then, we are
also going to see the NPH of the product, see its applicability, the type of soils in this
area. I will be setting up a meeting with Zamzows, they have done a tremendous
amount of research in this area in terms of soil amendments, fertilizers, compost, and
see where this could end and perhaps fit in terms of its marketability area wide. When
we finish this pilot program we are going to end up with several cubic yards of class A
biosolids, for which we will want to have use -- we have within our current permit at our
wastewater treatment facility the ability to apply it to our own land these biosolids, so we
will be able to do that. We will also have people come out, take a look at it. We'd like to
give DEO a look see at our process, not only during the pilot, but look at the analytics
and the quality of the product post pilot project. So, we will have some people from
other areas that are coming down to attend this pilot program from other wastewater
treatment facilities, et cetera, so we will have quite a learning experience with
everybody. Okay. Our next step is just basically looking at the contract and I have
provided it to Bill's staff and they are looking at that and putting in the requisite language
for indemnification, use of facility, and such and, then, if necessary, we will be bringing
that back to you for approval and signature and we are looking forward to the end of
October for this pilot program and I'm really happy that this opportunity came our way.
De Weerd: Me, too, and it is fortuitous
Mangerich: Yeah.
De Weerd: Any questions from Council?
Meridian City Council
August 16, 2011
Page 10 of 34
Rountree: Madam Mayor? Mollie, I have got I guess six things here. You indicated
that this is a digester type of activity and it's a high heat. Is there heat -- is there energy
added to this or is this all decomposition?
Mangerich: The energy is not added to it. It's actually a thermophilic reaction that
happens with the biosolids and that slicing of the lime and, then, adding of that acid -- a
little bit of acid.
Rountree: Okay.
Mangerich: And it does a really high burn.
Rountree: Okay. And the analytics are going to be done for a wide range, obviously, of
metals. Is that going to be done by our lab or is that going to be done by the provider?
Mangerich: Because this is a one time battery of tests it would actually cost us more to
have to set up for those internally. We can do a few of the simple tests in our lab, so we
will just use our Boise lab, like we normally do with our analytics.
Rountree: So, there is a cost there?
Mangerich: Absolutely. And we have priced those out.
Rountree: Yeah. You indicated that it has few restrictions, which tells me there are
some restrictions. What are those?
Mangerich: Well, these are all delegated or regulated by EPA. So, a class A biosolid
has few use restrictions as a comparison to class B. So, these could go for home
gardening. This can go for land applications for like commercial agriculture. This can
also be used for less high uses for road or bank stabilization projects. This can be used
as a soil substitute or aggregate substitute for a wide variety, but the highest level would
be to use it in home gardening use.
Rountree: And you indicated that the process is done in the vessel, which is
pressurized. I assume that's done because of the reaction?
Mangerich: That is correct.
Rountree: Okay. And as far as the contract when we hear from Bill, but have you or
will you be exploring, when you mentioned Zamzows, the opportunity for them to market
the material and before that my question is is there enough volume to make it
marketable?
Mangerich: The original study for composting analysis -- when was that done, about
three years ago, Tom?
Meridian City Council
August 16, 2011
Page 11 of 34
Barry: It was done in 2009.
Mangerich: Thanks. It had a very extensive look at the end market usability of the
product involved. Retailers, including Zamzows, were included in that and --
Rountree: And it's favorable, as I recall
Mangerich: Yes, it was. I also failed to tell you that as part of this pilot program we are
getting apre-demonstration -- presentation by the owner who is going to come out to
our staff at the wastewater treatment facility and talk to them about the equipment, the
process, the need for staffing requirements and what's actually happening in this
strange looking piece of equipment. Not only that, but after the demonstration at some
agreed time we will ask them to come to Council and to provide that presentation as
well, explaining the process, what was the outcome of the analytics, what type of
product were they using, where have they used it successfully before in the United
States, et cetera.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Just a quick question off of Councilman Rountree's, Mollie. The pressure --
we are not talking extreme pressure or high pressure within that system -- I mean there
is no risk of explosions and pieces and parts flying all over and things being flung to
parts unknown.
Mangerich: No. In the reactor itself, rather than pressure, there is a lot of heat and due
to heat comes destruction of the materials. So, there is not the expansion that you
might think of.
Hoaglun: Okay. Thank you.
Mangerich: Yeah.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Mangerich: Oh. Go ahead.
Zaremba: No. Go first.
Mangerich: Another aspect that we negotiated into the polite is that we are also with the
help of SSC going to be collecting some green waste and being able to stock pile that
and they -- the owners for the first time are going to co-process our green waste, along
Meridian City Council
August 16, 2011
Page 12 of 34
with the biosolids, so that we are able to look at the potentiality of taking both of those
waste streams and processing it together, which would be a benefit to SSC and us.
De Weerd: So, this demonstration project is something that we had put as a budget
item at a considerable amount to research how we can use green waste and some of
our solids, but this -- really that presents an extremely low cost -- no cost. You have the
labs and some staff time, but this is a great --great deal for our community and looking
at the future direction we were trying to consider for this kind of product, so it works out
well and greatly appreciate that. Mr. Zaremba, did you have a question?
Zaremba: I did, but, actually, Mollie read my mind. That's what I was going to ask
about, was that you had mentioned that it didn't need the green waste and my question
was can it use green waste anyhow and I think you have answered that. I would just
throw in a couple other comments. One would be consider whether the parks
department could use the product out of this in some ways and, then, several months
ago I heard something that I don't know if I have passed it along to you or not, but
somebody mentioned that there is a large composting project going on north of Parma
and they are selling all of their product to someplace in Japan and, apparently, that's a
needful market of some sort and I just thought I would throw that comment in there. But
thank you very much for what you're doing.
Mangerich: I will follow through on that.
De Weerd: Mollie, I guess is SSC looking at a special collection for yard waste that
week or -- I'd be more than happy to donate.
Mangerich: I'm sure that can be arranged. Actually, at our transfer station they
regularly get drop offs of commercial landscape waste and a lot of that is primarily grass
loads, of which can be set aside. So, in terms of ease ability during the short term of
this pilot we would probably be using those stocks that are delivered to their transfer
station.
De Weerd: Okay
Rountree: Madam Mayor, just a reminder to the Council that this kind of activity is a
high priority with SWAC. They have indicated that they want to set aside a fair amount
of the recycle money that's coming to them for a composting pilot, so some of the cost
related to this might be something that they want to consider. I don't know. It doesn't
sound like it's going to be terribly expensive, but as we move forward I think it's
something that SWAC might be very interested in pursuing.
Mangerich: Yeah.
De Weerd: Just for anyone sitting out there that wonders what SWAC is, it's our Solid
Waste Advisory Committee. So, we do have a citizen who might have a question, but --
Meridian City Council
August 16, 2011
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Mangerich: Oh, good.
De Weerd: If we could have the conversation up here. The question was would the
demonstration be available to the public and that's an excellent question, but is there an
opportunity? You can answer on the record.
Mangerich: There will be and I'm glad there is interest and the public will be notified as
to date, time, and location.
De Weerd: And we will have that on Facebook and Twitter and on our website and we
will try and get that out as many ways as we can. Okay. Any other questions from
Council?
Rountree: Sounds good.
De Weerd: Mr. Barry, do you have final remarks?
Barry: The only thing I would add, Madam Mayor, is that the budget amount that was
budgeted for the original compost pilot was 40,000 in our budget, so we are actually
saving 40,000 of budgeted money from the Public Works Enterprise Fund in exchange
for this free pilot. I think as Mr. Rountree pointed out, we will only probably have to
expend maybe a few thousand in analytical and technical analysis. So, it's a
considerable savings considering what we had budgeted for at the beginning of the
year, so --
De Weerd: Fantastic. Thank you, Mollie
Mangerich: Thank you.
1. Moved from the Consent Agenda as Item 5D: NPDES
Permit Presentation & Task Order. Award of Task Order
No. 10264 to HDR Engineering, Inc. for NPDES Permit
Strategy and Technical Assistance for the Not-To-
Exceed Amount of $107,950.00
De Weerd: Okay. Item 8-B-1 is -- was removed from the Consent Agenda as Item 5-D
and it's regarding our NPDES permit.
Barry: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council.
De Weerd: And what does that stand for?
Barry: Pardon me?
Rountree: NPDES.
Meridian City Council
August 16, 2011
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Barry: Oh, yes, I was going to say NPDES stands for the National Pollution Discharge
Elimination System and it is a permit that is required for the point source dischargers, of
which we are a point source discharger at a wastewater treatment plant and so I wanted
to give you just a quick history of sort of where we are, because it's been a long time
since we have formally talked with you about NPDES permits. That is because our last
permit was obtained in 1999. These are typically five year permits. In 1999 our current
permit was issued. That was issued in a time period when our population was roughly
around 28,000 folks and our wastewater treatment plant demand was about 2.2 million
gallons per day, with a total capacity at that point in time of around four million gallons
per day. In 2004, which is five years after the '99 permit, we submitted an application to
revise our permit and get a new permit issued, at which point in time the EPA simply
said we are just going to administratively extend your existing permit and continue to
operate under all the same parameters, terms, and conditions of that permit until we get
back to you. It is, of course, 2011 and we still have not heard from the Environmental
Protection Agency with regard our particular permit. However, there are activities taking
place that we wanted to make you aware of with regard to this region and EPA's intent
to issue draft and formal NPDES permits. So, as I mentioned, we are still operating
under a 1999 permit and one of the important things in that permit, as you know, as we
have talked to you in the past, is that we are flow limited in that permit. We are one of
the few permits in Idaho that had a flow restriction of seven million gallons per day of
discharge. Today our population is around 76,000 folks. We have had a number of
changes at our wastewater treatment plant since 1999. I have listed those here and I
won't go through the list, but they are extensive and costly and, more importantly, they
have changed our process fundamentally and, therefore, that -- those fundamental
changes need to be recorded and recertified through this NPDES process with EPA as
being approved methods for treatment. As well, our current demand is about -- has
grown to about six million -- roughly six and a half million gallons per day and our
treatment capacity now rated by DEQ and approved by DEQ is 10.2 million gallons per
day. There has been a number of different activities, which we wanted to apprise you of
and kind of keep you abreast of in the valley and in the region. One of the most
important things that's gone on is the Idaho Conservation League's legal action against
the EPA. You may have heard that the EPA had a suit filed against them from the ICL
to -- over the back log of NPDES permits that have not been issued or were very very
late. As I understand more than 50 percent of the permits in the region were expired.
We have, as part of other activities, been holding meetings with three other cities. We
call this a four city consortium. Monthly meetings on phosphorus issues and talking
about various -- or various different items and issues related to EPA and what the EPA
may or may not do with regard to permitting and requirements for phosphorus and other
nutrients. So, we have been meeting monthly. You are aware about the Dixie drain
project. You may not be entirely familiar with --although it's very similar -- with the
Boise River water quality restoration project. It is a Dixie drain project two on steroids.
Essentially, the Dixie drain project seeks to remove phosphorus out of a largely
agricultural influenced stream and the acreage of the Dixie drain project, about 50
acres, the Boise River water quality restoration project over 300 acres and upstream of
Boise's Dixie drain, which may be problematic for a variety of different reasons, but,
nevertheless, there have been a variety of presentations given by the folks behind the
Meridian City Council
August 16, 2011
Page 15 of 34
Boise River water quality restoration project. And so that's kind of going on in the
background. That's important because if trading becomes an option in permits that
come our way, we may want to entertain the possibility of trading and so we are
monitoring what's going on with those two projects and if it's viable to consider trading
as an option. The city of Boise has been given two draft permits, one for the Lander
Street and one for the west Boise wastewater treatment plant. They have those in draft.
We have obtained copies of those and are reviewing those copies. We have been
given indication by a number of different regulatory staff at various regulatory agencies
that the Boise -- the city of Boise permit will largely be a template used to issue other
permits in the region, which has us concerned, as you may know. We are quite a bit
different than the city of Boise with regard to a number different things and so we are
concerned about. The city of Boise has been out in front for the most part on issues
dealing with the EPA and they have been leading largely the conversation and we have
reached a point where we have discussed with our partners in the four cities
consortium, the time for -- while continuing to work together, placed our own interest at
our forefront right now, so we are changing strategies, although still continuing to work
together. Other important events that are occurring is the discussions around the Boise
River total maximum daily load. You may recall that the Boise River is limited or has a
total maximum daily load for certain constituents on it already. There are a number of
other constituents, primarily phosphorus, that is of concern, which is why we are all
dealing with this issue and have been for some time. The key amount has not been
established for phosphorus, so that will have a huge impact on ultimately what happens
in treatment technologies and limits and certainly approaches that municipalities may or
may not want to take. It will likely be years before TNDL is developed, which is
particularly problematic, because the EPA on their current schedule will likely attempt to
lower or reduce phosphorus discharges from point sources considerably and to that end
it will be doing so without a TNDL established and that could create some serious
issues in that if the TNDL identifies a number or concentration that's higher than what
the EPA permits are, obviously, there is -- could be considerable expense trying --
unnecessarilytrying to meet a lower limit than what the TNDL elements say.
De Weerd: Well -- and the -- the ridiculous part of this is -- points towards polluters --
cities are seven percent?
Barry: Seven to eight percent.
De Weerd: Seven to eight percent.
Barry: Of the total discharge for the Snake River -Hells Canyon system.
De Weerd: So, they want to put this on the backs of the citizens, rather than what the
real source polluters are.
Barry: Madam Mayor, it's very frustrating, you're correct, in that nonpoint source
discharges will not be required to meet these requirements. What's particularly
frustrating is that here we are as wastewater treatment facilities trying to remove on the
Meridian City Council
August 16, 2011
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order of, you know, four to seven or eight, maybe ten pounds of phosphorus per day
and that's considerably high, whereas hundreds of pounds of phosphorus in the form of
fertilizers and other things are added to the landscape around us for agricultural use
and those constituents, of course, run off, wash off over the land and back into the
streams. So, it is particularly frustrating, but that is how the federal government has set
up the Clean Water Act and we do not really have a choice with regard to our desires to
comply or not, so -- but it's definitely frustrating and costly, particularly, for point source
dischargers. A couple of other things that have been going on in the background. You
are probably aware of these. We have been updating our sewer system master plan.
Our facility master plans and wastewater treatment plant, as well as our reuse master
plan is in it's final stages and, then, we have recently organized an NPDES permit
strategy group internally and have identified a consultant, which you have a task order
to consider tonight with regard to some of the work that we would like to pursue moving
forward on this particular issue. So, what's at stake? There is an awful lot at stake with
regard to what mayor may not be present in our upcoming permit. There are huge cost
implications, of course, regarding what may be required of us in the future permit and
these costs range, as we have estimated with our consultants, if you don't consider
reuse and you consider a different technology, say, for example, membrane
technologies, we are looking on the order of 40 to 79 million dollars of new upgrades at
the wastewater treatment plant. If reclaimed water or a reuse program is a viable
alternative, we may be -- we could see a reduction considerably in the amount of -- in
the amount of cost and treatment required to comply, so that the number would come
down to about 26 to 47 million dollars. There are some -- some components that need
to be in this permit -- this upcoming permit which allow us to use reclaimed water. For
example, we would want a mass based limit, instead of a concentration based limit and
I won't go into the particulars about that. But the city of Boise, for example, has been
pursuing concentration based limits. We are not necessarily understanding why they
would want to do that, particularly if they are going to trade for phosphorus pound for
pound, why not go after concentration based limits, but they seem pretty firm that
concentration based limits will benefit them. We do not believe that concentration
based limits are to our advantage and certainly with our reclaimed water program pose
actually a problem for us. As well there are considerable -- I mean some of these
issues have been identified from the Boise permits. The city of Boise has been asked
to do extensive chemical and biological sampling. They have to actually collect fish and
do bi-assays on the fish and depending upon what happens with that, we are talking
about costs, as they have explained it to us, anywhere in the amount of 18 to 37
thousand dollars per year just on some of the fish and wet testing that would be
required. Certainly what's at stake is the viability of our reclaimed water program. If --
first of all, I mentioned mass base limits, but what's also important is seasonal limits and
timing. And, again, I won't get into all the nuances about this, but we are really looking
for a period in time where we can --where we are only required to meet phosphorus
requirements. If they require us to meet these phosphorus requirements all year long,
then, when we are not using reclaimed water, say, for example, in the winter, I still have
to put in that treatment technology to treat down to the limits in the off season, the off
irrigation season. So, if they choose to make this a year around limit, that could be --
that could kill our reclaimed water program, because it doesn't make sense to invest in
Meridian City Council
August 16, 2011
Page 17 of 34
reclaimed water and in membrane technology, so we are watching that very closely. So
far it looks like -- and looking sort of regionally and statewide there is some flexibility it
appears to allow for seasonal based limits, so we are going to have to watch that very
closely. There is certainly operational costs and considerations, how many staff we are
going to need to meet these new requirements, both in sampling of the laboratory or in
operational -- you know, running membranes or running other components of the
treatment plant. What's that going to do to rates. There is a lot at stake on this. Flow
limits. We think that the flow limit will go away. We don't see a flow limit necessarily --
well, (shouldn't say that. We don't see a flow limit in the city of Boise. There is different
ways to couch it, but we do think that the flow limit we have now will either go away or
be raised considerably, so we don't see that as an issue, but it's certainly something to
watch. Phosphorus trading we mentioned earlier, and, then, implementation timing, you
know, how long are they going to give the city of Meridian to comply with these
requirements? Is it one permit cycle? Two permit cycles? Three permit cycles? One
of the advantages for the City of Meridian is that we are already using technologies that
are fairly advanced for our region. and to get our phosphorus numbers lower than many
of our neighbors. That, however, can serve as a disadvantage in that the EPA could
see that, well, you're already halfway there or you're already getting close, so we are
just going to drive you further. You ought to be able to get there faster than others. So,
that's a concern for us, because, obviously, we have been good stewards of the
environment we think with regard reducing our phosphorus discharges and have been
for some time and we should be given credit for that. In addition we have spent
considerable money on those technologies sooner than other agencies and as a pay as
you go organization we certainly need to save up for some of these other dollar figures
that are coming our way.
De Weerd: Well -- and, Tom, if we can use their example of a permit cycle we could
say it's 11 years, so --
Barry: I suppose you could.
De Weerd: Or longer.
Barry: I suppose you could. So, our strategy going forward -- because we want to keep
you in the loop as to -- you know, we don't have a permit right now. No one has been
designated for the City of Meridian to our knowledge. They haven't really been talking
with us, but we'd like to get on the front side of this. We don't want to be reaction -- or
reaction based, we want to be proactive in what we do. So, our strategy is to acquire
assistance from a consultant, which we have identified in the past quarter here to
update and resubmit our 2004 permit application and that's not just as simple as filling
out one sheet of paper, usually permit applications are pretty intensive. We also would
like in that task order to consider this as well, for our consultant to assist with strategy
development and approach to negotiate our permit terms and conditions and provide
scientific analysis, as well as technical assistance as we move forward negotiating our
permit with the EPA. We also feel strongly that we want to take a preemptive
interaction -- or preemptive approach with the EPA and DEO, formulating our concerns,
Meridian City Council
August 16, 2011
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issues and desires before we get a permit in draft form. So, we'd like to touch base with
DEQ, EPA, and other regulatory officials to do this and certainly the task order allows
for some resources to help us have those educative conversations with those regulatory
agencies. We may need to identify a legal counsel for EPA negotiations. That depends
on a number of different factors and we won't really know that until we get into the
dialogue. We will certainly work with Mr. Nary's office and in the event we have to
pursue this avenue, we would update you as well. Right now there is no plans currently
and nothing outlined in the task order for acquiring legal assistance, but we just want to
let you know that that is typical during these kinds of negotiations and it's possible we
may need that in the future. We need to internally select an EPA negotiating team,
which we will do, and, then, we want to continue our monthly meetings with internal
working groups, as well as other municipalities, the water shed advisory group, the
technical advisory group, and others as appropriate moving forward. So, a number of
different things that we still need to keep abreast of. So, what we ask this evening is for
you to approve the task order that's in front of you. If you allow us to work with our
consultant in the work I have outlined and also, just to let you know, our next step as I
have kind of outlined, again, working with DEQ and EPA, updating and resubmitting our
application. Finalizing our negotiating team and, then, of course, legal counsel as
needed. So, that's really where we are at the moment. I will stop there and ask if you
have any questions, comments, concerns that I can take to the consultant or my staff or
address any of those at this point in time as well.
De Weerd: Thank you, Tom.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I certainly appreciate that we can see this freight train coming at us and I
appreciate that you're being proactive about trying to resolve what's going to come.
Just as a typical Zaremba sideways question, is there any chance that we could stop
being a point source by buying a square mile of farm land and keeping it agricultural
and using our discharge to fertilizer it and, then, it's no longer a point source?
Barry: Mr. Zaremba, actually, a fair question. The -- the concept there is similar to what
we are employing with our reuse program. If we could in theory take all of the water out
of Five Mile Creek that we currently discharge there and apply it on land, for example,
assuming that doesn't get back into any kind of surface water that goes back to waters
of the United States, then, we would not be a point source discharge and require this
permit. The problem is now we have got to deal with other regulatory agencies -- in this
case it would be the Department of Environmental Quality. So, we have kind of looked
at that as a strategy. Could we do say, for example, direct injection, could we inject the
water we have into the ground, avoiding surface water, but there is the groundwater rule
to contend with, there is other sort of more technical issues that surround challenges
associated with direct injection or rapid infiltration in the aquifer storage and recovery. I
will say that the city of Nampa is seriously considering a -- a rapid infiltration project
Meridian City Council
August 16, 2011
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whereby they would build a pipeline as I understand it ten to 15 miles south -- southeast
or so -- maybe southwest -- I think it's south to southeast of town and identified a couple
areas where there are actually aquifer reductions and they think that that might be a
potential solution for them and so they have -- they are actually working on that very
concept. We are monitoring that closely. Our challenge is that we already have high
water in our general vicinity and the likelihood of being able to find a place to discharge
six to ten million gallons per day without impacts to ground water or ground water levels
or those kind of things would be very very difficult for us. But we are going to watch
what Nampa does. There may be an opportunity for us to partner with them. I don't
know. Probably unlikely, but I think at this point in time all the municipalities are looking
at one another and working together and we are all in the same boat and I think we will -
- as we have done in the past, we will continue to share our issues, concerns, and
potential solutions to this problem. But it's a fair question, I just don't think it's very
viable, at least in its conceptual form as we have addressed it in the city.
Zaremba: Thank you.
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Thank you, Mayor. Tom, you have described this as a preemptive measure.
Given EPA's inability to keep track of, pursue, or deal with requests for permitting that's
taken, what, 11 to 12 years since the last one and we have approached them previously
and we have been really up close and personal with EPA rather recently and it still
seems as if there is no action. So, I -- my question is is the timing now or is it
something that we anticipate and when EPA starts thinking like they might do their job,
that, then, we do it and we do it in such a fashion with the information we have at that
particular time, because it seems to me we could take the preemptive measure now,
spend a fair amount of money, do some really good work, but not quite hit the mark that
we needed to for the permit. So, I guess my question is is the timing right, can it be put
off for awhile? I'm not concerned about what you're doing, it's the right thing, but is it
the right time and do you have a sense that EPA is getting in the starting blocks on this?
My guess is we won't see anything from EPA until after the next national election.
Bird: That's right.
Barry: I think your question is very fair, Mr. Rountree, and, you know, I can't predict
what they will or won't do. Or I should say I can't tell you what they will or won't do, but
the prediction is that they will be dealing with the other municipality permits sometime in
February of next year. That's what the word is on the street. Now, you know I have
talked with you either individually as my liaison or whatnot and kind of said, well, it looks
like maybe we are going to get the draft permit next year and I think I have said that two
or three years now. So, your question is very very valid. The difference here is that the
city of Boise has gotten its permits. That to us is a sign that --and the other thing that's
changed is the ICL suit that's been filed. So, we know there is pressure on the EPA and
we know that the city of Boise just got two of their -- both of their permits, essentially.
So, we feel that if we delay much longer we might miss an opportunity to proactively
Meridian City Council
August 16, 2011
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engage the EPA and our other regulators, but, you're right, I mean they -- they could
decide at anytime that, okay, we are going to finish out Boise, then, we are going to wait
eight months to negotiate with Boise and the election comes up and whatever happens
and here we have got Meridian barking at us to get their permit and, you know, maybe
in reality we could gain another year or two years. But I think if you -- I think it would be
concerning to me to go into -- to engage the EPA after we have gotten a draft permit.
So, it's -- it's kind of tough. But to me we have been as close as we have been in my
time with the city negotiating with the EPA to having draft permits issued in the time
frame that they think is going to be realistic. I put it between February and maybe June
of next year in draft form. And if they are serious about using the city of Boise's
template it will go pretty quick, because I don't think you're going to change a whole lot if
they are going to use their -- because it's been essentially written. So, it's a great
question and I'm not sure I'm going to be able to give you an answer you want to hear.
Rountree: Madam Mayor? Tom, I understand the answer. It seems to me that in your
approach and with the consultant's effort you're talking a lot about negotiation with EPA
and that creature changes pretty dramatically with politics and time. If you do enter into
negotiations -- and probably this is a question for Bill or the legal counsel that might
work with the consultant is that if we hammer out an agreement with EPA, is it going to
be something that -- that we can hold up and say, hey, this is what you were agreeing
to, as opposed to this is what we thought you agreed to and now we have a new EPA
administrator, we have a new administration, that either is more stringent or less
stringent -- I guess I want to be comfortable with what we negotiate is contractual and
we can hold them to it and I'm --given our past experience with them I'm not sure that
there is a real good trusting relationship there.
Barry: Fair enough. I'm not going to be able to give the answer that you probably are
looking for on this either, because, you're right, things constantly change. We just had a
strategy meeting with the consultants this afternoon in which the consultants gave an
example that a city and acounty -- the city was within the county, both got their permits
for the wastewater facilities within two weeks of one another and they were different.
And the answer to the question as to why they were different was -- the EPA's response
that -- we updated our template between the time frame that the one was issued to the
other. So, it's absolutely possible that it could change and if it gets delayed it could
change considerably. One of the other things to consider is that when the draft is
issued it goes through a -- you know, you go and negotiate with the EPA until it gets into
sort of final draft form and, then, it, essentially, goes out for public comment and it could
change considerably during public comment period as well, depending upon what
comments come in and what concerns or threats or whatever come from any
organization or individual. The city of Boise has not entered the public comment period
yet. We don't know if there is an interest by anyone in the community or state for that
matter with regard to what is in their permit or what is not in their permit, but there are a
lot of variables and until it becomes a final permit it is a document that is subject to
change at anytime, really. So, it's going to be a bit of a gamble either way I think and I
wish I had a better answer for you.
Meridian Cily Council
August 16, 2011
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Rountree: Madam Mayor. Just a final comment. You have heard my concern. I think
contractually as you enter into this, if, in fact, we move forward with it, is that we need to
have specific milestones in the contract with whomever we hire to do this and our
project manager needs to hold their feet to the fire, as well as EPA's, and I think there
needs to be a contract with EPA that they are going to be willing to sit down and
negotiate with us. If there is not sufficient progress and it seems like we are spinning
our wheels, we need an out -- you know, we need to be able to say this isn't going
anywhere, I'm not going to spend anymore money.
Barry: I appreciate your comments. The contract reference you made between us and
the EPA I don't think we will ever get. They will just say, you know, that's not what we
do or I have never seen it happen where they enter a contract to say we are going to
pursue this. You may recall a strategy that we took as a community a year and a half,
two years ago when they asked us to update our permit application, which cost us a
considerable amount, because as I mentioned last time it was done was in 2004, there
has been a lot of new technology, a lot of upgrades to the plant. Essentially, I asked for
their schedule for compliance with regard to establishing when the draft permit was
going to be developed and when the public comment period was going to be and when
they could provide that schedule to us, then, we would go and invest in upgrading that
permit. They never responded, so we never responded and here we are. So, we do try
as best we can to get an understanding as to what their -- what their schedules are.
There are no guarantees, because they are in the driver's seat here, kind of all the way
around. As it relates to our consultant, absolutely. Say, for example, we decide we
want to engage the EPA and the EPA says to us, Meridian, we are not ready to work
with you yet, we are going to finish up the city of Boise first, then, we will rein back in
our consultant, we obviously won't have them working just to work, we will rein them
back in until the EPA is ready or we will take a different strategy, which might be trying
to encourage them to work with us. As you know, budget constraints all the way around
have got -- you know, reached the farthest levels of federal government as well and the
permit and regulating agencies are strapped for funds, too, and so personnel is tight
and, you know, we are not sure if there is capacity right now to entertain a negotiation
with our community for a draft permit either. So, those are part of the preliminary -- the
preliminary work that needs to be done in order for us to really gauge how serious the
EPA is with regard to moving forward on these draft permits with regard to our
community.
Rountree: With respect to a contract with EPA, I meant what you alluded to, a
commitment on their part that they are willing to sit down and negotiate. Without that I
don't see any reason to move forward.
Barry: Okay.
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor. Councilman Rountree raises some -- some very good points
and I think it kind goes back to his years of experience dealing with other parts of the
Meridian City Council
August 16, 2011
Page 22 of 34
federal government that he brings these good points to the table. I like the approach
that -- that Director Barry is bringing forward just from the standpoint that we will be
proactive, as opposed to reactive. I think there is something important where we are
driving the permit terms and conditions and not responding to what EPA is doing in
driving their permit terms and conditions, that we can kind of control that as much as we
can, knowing we won't fully control it -- as much as we can to put our issues forward
and move that in the front -- forefront. The scientific analysis and technical assistance
that this help would bring I think is important, because as Councilman Rountree pointed
out, you may have a change of administration, achange of philosophy, change of so
many things, as you pointed out, Tom, that could happen in the interim while this is
going forward, but if we have the science and base it on the science that's there, it's
solid, then, they don't have as much wiggle room to try to put us on the hook for some
things and that's something I'm concerned about and -- because it does happen,
unfortunately. So, I think it's a good thing that we move forward with this and try to be
proactive and capture the data and put together our best case and use that information
going forward, so --
Barry: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other comments from Council? Okay. You do have a task
order in front of you that is looking for some action from Council on. What is your
direction?
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I would move approval of the award of task order number 10264 to HDR
Engineering, Inc., for NPDES permit strategy and technical assistance for the not to
exceed amount of 107,950 dollars.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Madam Clerk, will you call
roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Thank you, Tom.
Barry: Thank you.
Meridian City Council
August 16, 2011
Page 23 of 34
De Weerd: Just -- I want to make sure that John doesn't leave before I say this. I was
going to do it at the end, but I did go and pick up the city's trophy for the softball game
against the chamber and since John just really impressed me with his tenacity and his
ability to just not quit, it was very impressive, John, and so I wanted to let you know we
did pick up our trophy and it will hang proudly somewhere -- maybe we need to hang it
in your office, because certainly you deserved it. And they did print the score 38 to two.
Bird: Thirty-eight? I thought it was 48.
C. Building Services: Award of Agreement for Automatic
Temperature Control System to ClimaTech Corporation for the
Not-To-Exceed Amount of $479,441.00
De Weerd: We let them cheat by ten. Thirty-eight to two. So, anyway, next item on the
agenda is Item 8-C, which is our building services and I will turn this over to John. You
are very fortunate you didn't have longer term damage.
McCormick: I am. And thank you, Madam Mayor, for those kind comments and good
evening and Members of the Council. I wanted to speak to the contract agreement that
has been submitted by ClimaTech. This is to install the automated logic solution for our
HVAC controls throughout the City Hall building. On June 6 -- or excuse me --June 7th
of this year you approved a sole source agreement for 468,720 dollars. During that time
and now we did our due diligence in terms of getting the contract together, going out
and publishing sole source for the appropriate period of time and that sort of thing and,
then, working with ClimaTech to get the details of the contract together. The contract
agreement is for 479,441, which is a difference of 10,720, if my math is correct. And so
as good as we were at doing our due diligence, we overlooked one important item and
that was a performance bond and so the performance bond was not included in the sole
source agreement, but was included in the contract and that's the difference. So, I just
wanted to make that explanation to you, so you understood that, you know, there is no
end around stuff going on here or slight of hand, that sort of thing. And with that I would
seek your approval for the contracted amount, so we can move forward with the work
that we have to do and I stand for any questions.
De Weerd: Thank you, John. Council, any questions?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Again, a sideways question. Is there any opportunity for any kind of a
rebate, like from Idaho Power? If we are going to be doing this it sounds like we are
probably going to be saving energy, saving some stuff. I'm just curious -- you maybe
haven't explored this yet, but whether there is some rebate or it helps us qualify as a
high efficient building or something?
Meridian City Council
August 16, 2011
Page 24 of 34
McCormick: Actually, there will be some benefits from this action. There already has
been with the pre-cooling benefit that we get through the wet side economy --
economizerthat cools the IT server room. We have seen consumption drop off for that
reason and that's six months of free cooling during the year when temperatures are less
than 50 degrees outside. This particular system will interface with NOAA, so it will take
information from the National Weather Service and integrate that into the controls and
so when the building needs cooling it will cool it appropriately at the appropriate time, so
we will look at the forecast and be able to integrate that data into the behavior of the
system itself in delivering either cooling or heating. Now, we will still continue with the
wet side economizer to take advantage of that precooling. The estimate at this point --
and we have achieved a 1,500 dollar award from Idaho Power already. The other
benefits would come probably in the neighborhood of anywhere from 15 to 28 thousand
dollars a year in electrical savings. Now, we have to be cautious when we talk about
dollars, because the kilowatt dollar per hour or the unit price of that product goes up and
so we -- we might avoid some escalation of cost, but the key thing is what happens to
consumption and so what we are trying to focus on is driving our demand for electricity
down and that will result in either a cost savings directly or avoiding any escalating cost.
And we should see immediate benefit from that. We have one year to sustain an
Energy Star rating of 75 and once that kicks in after this system is installed, we should
be able to sustain that at 75 and that will give us the Energy Star compliant to warrant
and there should be some benefit from that as well. So, it's all pretty much upside,
notwithstanding the increased comfort level of the employees of the City Hall and the
people who visit our fine building and spend a lot of time here.
Zaremba: Thank you.
McCormick: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions? Okay. Thank you. Thank you, John.
McCormick: Yeah. Thank you.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
Zaremba: Do we need to take action on that?
De Weerd: I certainly need action. Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Yes, Madam Mayor. I would move approval of this award of agreement for
automatic temperature control system to ClimaTech Corporation for the not to exceed
amount of 479,441 dollars.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Thank you. I have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Madam Clerk,
will you, please, call roll.
Meridian City Council
August 16, 2011
Page 25 of 34
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
D. Legal Department: Taxicab Mobile Sales Unit License
Ordinance Discussion
De Weerd: The next item, Item 8-E, is also our -- I'm sorry. 8-D. Is our legal
department and I will turn this over to Mr. Nary.
Nary: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. On your -- in your packets
tonight there is a draft ordinance for taxi cab licensing. Back in March of this year we
received a letter from a taxi cab owner in regards taxi cab businesses in the valley,
including the City of Meridian and suggesting that we adopt some sort of regulation in
the city for regulating the taxi cab businesses. We formed a committee at that time
made up of staff from my office, police, planning, and the clerk's office to figure out how
we could do that, what we would want to regulate, what we would recommend relating,
and how it could be handled without, again, adding additional staff or additional work of
a great magnitude. So, from March to June the committee met, looked at other cities,
both locally, as well as around the country, and what types of taxi cab regulations have
been effective in various communities. Obviously, the city to the east has a fairly
extensive taxi cab ordinance and a vehicle inspection program that they are required to
have the city of Boise actually inspect their vehicles annually, in addition to they can
also have it done -- they have to have it at least done once a year by the city and, then,
also it can be done through other vendors with the city. And, of course, they have an
airport that's a greater driver of the taxi cab business, but we looked at other local cities,
like Caldwell where they don't have an airport of any real magnitude and that's not a
great driver, but yet they find there is a lot of taxi cab businesses that don't have a real
relationship to the airport, because our initial thought was, you know, maybe we,
basically, grant reciprocity to existing licensees and, then, we wouldn't take on a great
deal of burden for the city clerk's office to manage a license program of that sort, but the
concern was -- in talking with Caldwell is that you have businesses that don't want to
operate in the city of Boise, either can't meet their requirements or don't want to meet
their requirement and don't use the airport as their main source of income, that they can
do enough business within the city itself to sustain themselves. And so we felt it was
important if we were going to regulate this that we could maybe grant reciprocity to
some degree with -- with the city of Boise, but we needed to have our own system set
up for Meridian, if that's the direction we chose to go. So, March through June the
committee met to form through this process and basically what we did is we looked at
our mobile sales unit license that already exists and felt that was a method that we
could probably expand. We would create its own license, but it was a method that
already exists for us, so it's not something we were creating completely out of thin air.
The committee then met separately with both the owner of Boise City Taxi and Black
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August 16, 2011
Page 26 of 34
and White Taxi, because both of them had made some contact with the city and had
concerns on how this would work or how it might impact their business and we got their
input, then, we continued to work on the draft ordinance. We also contacted ICRMP
and also All American Insurance in regards to what insurance would be necessary that
we think would be appropriate for these types of businesses. Mr. McCurdy, the owner
of Boise City Taxi wrote back, I met with him, as well with our staff, and I think the
disconnect with Boise City Taxi is they are used to operating at a larger scale and one
of the things that they really are seeking -- probably need more legislative guidance
than really can be done at the city level. His perspective, which I can't disagree with, I
think he understands the taxi business, is that when you're looking at a large
metropolitan area you want consistency between all the various cities. Well, only at the
legislative level can we really do that, unless we jointly want to cooperate, but, again,
the cost for us to manage a program like Boise's is significant. Well, certainly for Eagle
or Kuna, or Nampa or Caldwell would even be more. So, it's not practical from that
perspective to just get cooperative ordinances, you really have to look at what makes
the most sense for -- for our city. The other thing that we couldn't agree on is -- and this
is a sticking point that's really for -- for what we are seeking direction from you tonight is
the committee's view was inspections of vehicles -- although it is important, can be a
very expensive time consuming process to go through and the committee's view was
that the -- the quality of the vehicle or the safety of the vehicle really is in the cab
company's best interest and not necessarily in the city's. What the city's best interest is
is making sure that people know what the cost of the ride is before they ride and that the
person that's driving this vehicle is -- has been checked out or has a background check
been done, so that they are not on the sex offender list, they are not a felon, that they
are, essentially, safe to be in the vehicle with this person. We felt from a priority
standpoint for cost and in cost of the program, that that was a greater priority than we
also trying to implement a check system of inspections as well. So, that's kind of the
sticking point we end up with Boise City Taxi, Mr. McCurdy's pretty adamant that we
need to have that type of system in place and we didn't feel realistically that it was very
practical for the city to try to do that. The things that were exempted -- basically -- and
Boise city has the same -- same type of exemption. If you're coming into the city -- if
you're not licensed in the City of Meridian, but you're licensed in some other city and
you're just coming to either pick up or drop off within our city, so you're not cruising
around, you're not waiting outside for a fair at a hotel or a bar or something like that,
you're just driving someone from the airport to their home in Meridian, you don't have to
be licensed here. If you're licensed elsewhere that's adequate. If -- if it's a prearranged
appointment we have allowed that, so you can contact a cab company to come and get
and they don't have to be licensed here. So, we felt that maybe I guess take a smaller
bite at the elephant upfront was really to just license those that want to operate within
the city here, don't necessarily operate all over the valley or don't necessarily operate
already in the city of Boise. If you think it would be better or more -- or more --abetter
use of our time to license all of those types of businesses, that's certainly doable, it's
just a little bit more work and time to license those. There is hundreds of cabs and so it
can be -- it can be pretty daunting to take that on, but if we have enough adequate lead
up time we can do that. But right now that's not -- that's not required. The other things
that are exempted is shuttles. So, if it's afare -- if it's a nonfare ride -- so you're getting
Meridian City Council
Augusl 16, 2011
Page 27 of 34
a courtesy ride from the -- your mechanic or a courtesy ride from a car dealership or
something like that, there is no fare involved with that, then they don't have to get a
license from those. The only ones that will be required to license is, again, taxis and
limousine services that operate within our city, those would require that, as long as they
were operating within and not just transporting from Boise to here. Other things -- the
standard stuff, license, they have to be 18 years of age, there is a background check
done, they have to provide insurance, they will have to have posted rates -- it will either
have to be a metered rate or a fixed rate. The committee did not have an opinion that
one was better than the other. The committee's opinion was that the consumer should
know what the rates are prior to accepting the ride. But whether the rates were done on
a metered basis by the mile or whether the rates were done on a fixed rate, wasn't really
something we felt that was significant enough to want to regulate. Again, we could. If
that's your desire we could certainly go back and revisit that. There is some UDC
changes that were put into place in regards to essentially dispatching units, so that way
you don't have a problem that Kuna experienced where you had neighborhoods that
became, essentially, the transit center for a cab company, so we have put UDC codes
in place to cover that, so that should not be an issue. And the last is we wanted to
make sure that all of the ones that licensed in the city have a distinctive color scheme,
would register their color scheme, uniforms, those kind of things with the city that their
driver should be wearing, so that we would be able to identify who they are. And there
would be an annual renewal and we would work with the police department and the
clerk's office on if we go this route when we would implement this. We have had this
same discussion in regards to precious metals that if we were to implement this -- say,
for example, from this point forward to the end of the year, that the license for the driver
would be good the rest of this year, as well as all of 2012. Otherwise, they are just
turning around in three months and coming back and doing the same work all over
again and we felt that was not very fair or practical to do. So, we felt we would issue the
first one for the 14 to 15 months or whatever the amount of time would be and, then,
from then it would be an annual renewal from that point forward. That's all I have. The
ordinance, as I said, is on there. Basically, the decision points or the direction we were
seeking is do you want us to regulate the inspections, do you want us to regulate rates
and do you want us to regulate all cab companies, whether the are licensed in other
communities, they would have to have a license here as well.
De Weerd: Okay. Council?
Rountree: Madam Mayor, my first reaction is is that we probably ought to implement
the UDC portion of that, but the remainder of this I believe is something that is region
wide and at a minimum probably ought to be implemented county wide, much as taxi
services are in other metropolitan areas where fees for zones are established, so if you
know you're going from this zone to this zone it's posted in the cab and you know what
you're going to pay. But it seems to me if we start trying to do this, how are we going to
regulate fees for somebody like Boise Cab who comes to Meridian to pick somebody up
to take them to the airport. I do that frequently and every time I go to the airport it costs
me a different amount. It really doesn't bother me, because it's a service that I need
and I'm willing to pay for. I have no idea how staff is going to regulate something like
Meridian Cily Council
Augusl16,2011
Page 2S of 34
that. To me it's --you're getting into a -- you're building another bureaucracy only in
Meridian. I appreciate the effort and -- I don't know, I'm just really struggling with how
do we make it work as an island within our metropolitan area.
Nary: Madam Mayor? Madam Mayor, Council Member Rountree, you have hit on
exactly the dilemma we started with as this group, is that, first, the safety aspect for the
passengers certainly makes sense.
Rountree: Yes.
Nary: But when you get down and drill down to it you reach the same concerns that we
have is how do we not create a huge regulatory bureaucracy, keeping in mind the safety
of the public, but yet the reality has been in asking both the city clerk's office and the
police department have we received complaints of any kind and we haven't. So, the
Hitch that exists currently today -- now it doesn't mean that we shouldn't keep our eyes
on it, but the Hitch that exists today where you have cab services that will charge you to
come get you, as well as to transport you, because of where they are located and where
you're located, versus some that will only charge to pick you up and transport you, is
two different Hitches that exist that appear to be serving their customers without really a
problem that at least comes to the city. It doesn't mean there are exceptions, there
probably are, and anecdotally you're talking with both of the cab owners, they both know
of incidents where customers would call one cab company, the cab company never
showed up. Those types of things are probably going to happen regardless of whether
regulations exist, but we didn't have any consistent, you know, data to determine that
there really was a problem we were trying to resolve, but, again, I recognize the desire
for safety and concerns about the public. You know, we did the same issue when we
were faced with mobile sales units a few years ago and talked about the mobile
vendors, like ice cream vendors and such. Anybody can operate that kind of business.
We had folks that were concerned for the city and we choose to do that. We haven't
had that experience today, but it doesn't mean we won't. So, you know, I think we have
got it to the point that we have really got it down to those three questions and that's I
think --there is not an urgency, so I'm not saying we have to put this on next week. We
can certainly table this until your September workshop to give you time to review the
ordinance and some time to ponder that and we can have a conversation about it again.
De Weerd: If I could have called the Mayor's office when the taxi never came to pick up
my husband I would have. I had to go pick him up, so --
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: -- I always like to put my own blame on someone else. Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: In agreement with what Councilman Rountree has said, this is a lot of good
work and I think something like that needs to be done. I really think it's much more
effective on a regional basis, whether it's just Ada county or Ada and Canyon combined
and I don't know how we make that happen, as you have already observed, other than
Meridian City Council
August 16, 2011
Page 29 of 34
just as we have tried to do with the fireworks ordinance and a couple other things to get
our neighbors involved in doing something similar, it doesn't always get the same
impetus, but to me what kicked this off -- and I only see one reference to it and that is
paragraph E-2 on page nine, about where you can park any vehicle that's in this
business. To me what kicked it off was the issue in Kuna where they were just using a
neighborhood to park their fleet when they weren't using it and apparently servicing it in
the driveway or doing something like that. Are you saying that the new UDC elements -
-apparently Ihadn't seen them. Maybe I'm missing something. But the new UDC
elements cover that, even though it's not specified here?
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, yeah, that was -- actually, before Anna
left that was the first thing she wanted to address. They had already -- and I don't know
-- we don't have a P&Z meeting this week, so I'm not certain where in the process it is,
but I know they did craft that to bring it to P&Z, so, then, you should be seeing that.
They had other inquiries of other types of dispatching services. I think it was Merry
Maids or another business like that, that wanted to, again, operate in a neighborhood
and so Anna felt that there probably was more than one type of business that this would
relate to and it made more sense to create a zone for those types of things and allow
them in certain areas and not others. So, that is working its way through the process.
But, again, I would agree with all of you, it has been a struggle in trying to figure out how
do we do this without -- without a state system that either makes it very simple to create
an authority, you know, Imean -- I guess they could talk to VRT or COMPASS and see
if somebody else wants to do this, but to really create some kind of regional authority
when county ordinances don't apply in city limits or aren't -- don't have the same
enforcement capabilities in the city limits, so you have to really do it at the state level
and, again, to try to deal with an urban -- a purely urban issue at the state legislature
has always been very difficult, because it really doesn't grasp the attention of a majority
of the legislators, because it doesn't impact them. So, I would agree with you, we --and
that's exactly what our discussion was with Mr. McCurdy. As I said, I didn't disagree
with him that it works better and is more effective on a larger scale, we just don't have a
mechanism to do that and without the legislature changing some state statutes to allow
for that, we really have to do it based on what's the best interest of our city and, again,
you're going to have Kuna with on set, you're going to have Caldwell with a different,
Nampa with something else, Boise with something else, probably Eagle with nothing. I
mean I think you're going to have a lot of misunderstandings and one of the -- in fact,
one of the primary discussion points they had with Boise City Taxi was they said based
on the level of business that is generated in our community, it can use approximately
four vehicles. Well, based on the way our system is I said, then, it has -- if you want us
to inspect them, then, it has to be those four vehicles every time. We are going to
license -- you can license every one of your drivers, so you can use any driver you
want, but if we inspect vehicles, then, it's got to be those vehicles or you have to pay to
inspect every one of your vehicles in our city as well, which, again, now becomes very
cost probative. So, it is a chicken and the egg to try to figure out when is the right time,
is this the right time and what exactly do we do. So, you know, I think the committee
has got it as far as we can take it and, again, I'm certainly, you know, willing to wait until
your September workshop and we can at least have some time to ponder it and if you
Meridian City Council
August 16, 2011
Page 30 of 34
have some direction that we can work on between now and then we can certainly do
that.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor, follow up?
De Weerd: Yes
Zaremba: Thank you. I think that's all good and I do like the suggestion of putting it on
the September workshop for further discussion. You in passing mentioned an idea --
very early in VRT's existence I think they looked at their charter from the state and said
that taxi cabs could come under their regulation. They are a form of public
transportation. They chose -- we chose not to pursue that at the moment, but maybe it's
time for VRT to reconsider whether they should be the agency and I know from my
travels and work around the country that taxi cab authorities are very common and
sometimes it's a government agency and sometimes it's actually industry regulated and
even the industry regulated ones do a very good job of policing themselves and other
interlopers in particular. So, along with our discussion in pursuit of this, we may want to
raise that at VRT as well to see whether they might begin to take an interest in this
again. Just a thought.
Nary: Madam Mayor? Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, maybe prior to the
September one I could at least have a conversation with VRT, as well as Boise city,
they have by far the most comprehensive scheme, so it would appear to me that if VRT
wishes to take that on, that would probably be the model they would use or something
similar to that and it would seem to me that Boise City's buy-in to be a part of that would
probably be one way or the other. If they said we are not interested, I guess VRT could
do whatever they want to, then, that would probably take the path one way and if they
said we would happily turn that over to somebody else to do it and help them transition
it, that would probably drive it a different way. So, I could certainly have at least that
discussion between now and your September 13th workshop and I can report that back.
Zaremba: And an exploratory discussion would be great.
Nary: Yeah. And I can at least report that back to you where we are at and, again, I
think from a global standpoint it would certainly make the most sense. We have learned
a lot on how the taxi cab businesses work and I think when we started in this we felt that
the airport was such a big driver that that's probably the direction we need to focus and,
then, talking with other communities they found the airport certainly is significant, but in
Caldwell it's -- a lot of people use it in the Caldwell-Nampa area to transport themselves
around Caldwell and Nampa and don't go to the airport. You know, whether it's folks
that can't drive or elderly, they aren't able to drive any longer, but there is certainly
enough business for it that the airport is not a significant factor to their business, so they
are still operating somehow. So, a transit authority would make more sense.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
Meridian City Council
August 16, 2011
Page 31 of 34
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: While I'm willing to take another look at this in September, I don't know if we
are there yet for this community to get into this. Are we ripe for this type of regulation
and the different things that Bill and the group struggled with, you know, are major
issues and I know for me when I need to go to the airport and it's at early morning, I
have got a company I call, because Iknow -- pretty sure they are going to be there on
time. Iknow what the costs are going to be, they are going to get me there and it's just
my responsibility to do that. I don't rely on, you know, the city to make sure everything
is done correctly. But, like I said, I'm willing to see what -- if there is something VRT is
interested in doing or willing to do, I don't know, but right now I'm a little hesitant to go
down that path.
De Weerd: I could tell you a company not to call. I guess my only point was -- is when
someone calls a cab and they get in it, there is -- there is an assumption that someone
has checked out that driver and you will be safe when you get in it and I think that
Councilman Zaremba in his dealings throughout the country in transportation related
things that that's a very common assumption and so as the Black and White Company
sits across the street at the bar waiting for someone to stumble out the door, do we
know that they are getting into a cab that's safe and I guess that's the balance. Is it our
responsibility? I don't know. But it is the assumption of the public
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird
Bird: The only thing is a license don't keep the person from doing that. The license isn't
-- it's -- it's going to tell the people that, yeah, they are licensed, but it's not going to tell
them and they just walked out of the bar themselves and got in the car. It is a problem.
It happens a lot more times than we would like. The exact thing that you say, they -- the
drivers are licensed, but they do some stupid things. So, I don't think license is going to
do it. I'm like the rest of the Councilmen, let's bring it back, see what VRT or someone -
- and let's listen to it in September. Right now I think it's -- in the first place, I think it's
going to be harder than the devil to police and some of these cab companies only come
in here once or twice a month, do you think they are going to come and get a license?
No, they are going to take the chance, they run in and out. I just -- I think we can listen
to it and, then, decide in September. I appreciate what the committee has done,
though, Bill. You guys, I appreciate it.
De Weerd: Any comment over there? Okay. Okay. We will bring this back to Council
E. Legal Department: Proposed Addition of Mutual Hold
Harmless Clause to Memorandum of Agreement Designating
Boise City/Ada County Housing Authority as City's Agent to
Purchase Housing and Urban Development (HUD) Dollar
Homes
Meridian City Council
August 16, 2011
Page 32 of 34
De Weerd: Item 8-E is also under our Legal Department.
Nary: Yes. Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. You should have a
signed agreement. I think it was a faxed signed agreement. We did this earlier with the
Boise city -- or the Ada County Housing Authority. We had some issues, their lawyers
talked to our lawyers and there was some issues they had and we have ironed them
out. The issues really were --the most critical for the city was if we are going to,
essentially, grant this authority is for the housing authority to act in purchasing a dollar
home, they need to be responsible for the transaction and after some discussion Mrs.
Kane had with the Ada County Prosecuting Attorney's Office, the agreement basically
states that. They are responsible for the transaction. The only thing the city is
responsible for is any acts that were done by our employees. So, the risk is pretty slight
in that regard. Really, the --the whole issue is going to be identifying properties and,
then, them carrying through on the transaction and they will hold the city harmless, they
will indemnify us, we weren't required to indemnify them, and so we think it's
satisfactory and so it's ready for approval for you.
De Weerd: Thank you. So, do you need action on this this evening?
Nary: Yes, ma'am. You need approval for you to sign.
Bird: But for the MOU?
Nary: Yes.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would move that we approve the MOU with HUD and for the Mayor to sign and
the Clerk to attest.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 8-E. If there is no
discussion, Madam Clerk.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 9: Future Meeting Topics
Meridian City Council
August 16, 2011
Page 33 of 34
De Weerd: Under Item 9 we do have an item that has been requested to get on a future
City Council agenda. There is a group of citizens that would like to bring a petition over.
They are in the Tuscany Subdivision and they would like to have an opportunity to make
comment about the process and also present some of their hard work in getting a
petition going. So, that --that we will schedule not next week, because next week is
pretty full, but we will get them on in September.
Rountree: What does that relate to, Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: The reservoir.
Rountree: Oh. Okay.
De Weerd: So, they did make the request to be on an agenda. So, we will call them
and let them know. Work with them.
Item 10: Executive Session per Idaho State Code 67-2345(1)(b) - To Consider
the Evaluation, Dismissal or Disciplining of, or to Hear Complaints or
Charges Brought Against, a Public Officer, Employee, Staff Member
or Individual Agent, or Public School Student
De Weerd: There was an addition to the agenda for an Executive Session. At this
point, Council, I would entertain such a motion.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I move that we go to Executive Session per Idaho Code 67-2345(1)(b).
Bird: Second.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second and just a note for the agenda, when this was
added it was added under (1)(a), but it should have been added under (1)(b). So,
Madam Clerk, will you, please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All aye. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
EXECUTIVE SESSION: (8:42 p.m. to 9:27 p.m.)
Meridian City Council
August 16, 2011
Page 34 of 34
Hoaguln: I move to come out of Executive Session.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: I would entertain a motion to close.
Hoaglun: So moved.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED. FOUR AYES.
De Weerd: We are adjourned.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:27 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
MAYO MY De WEERD
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