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HomeMy WebLinkAboutOctober 21, 2003 City CouncilMeridian City Council October 21, 2003 Page 19 of 68 Nichols: We will certainly do our best to try to have it ready by then. De Weerd: Okay. All those in favor of the motion please say aye. Okay. All ayes. Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 13: Continued Public Hearing from October 14; 2003: AZ 03-015 Request for annexation and zoning of 9.8 acres from RUT to R-8 zones for proposed Sageland Planned Development by Quasar Development, LLC -northeast corner of South Locust Grove Road and East Victory Road: Item 14: Continued Public Hearing from October 14, 2003: PP 03-020 Request for revised Preliminary Plat approval of 41 building lots and 9 other lots on 10.64 acres in a proposed R-8 zone for proposed Sageland Planned Development by Quasar Development, LLC -northeast corner of South Locust Grove Road and East Victory Road: Item 15: Continued Public Hearing from October 14, 2003: CUP 03-036 Request for Conditional Use Permit for a Planned Development with a private neighborhood park in an R-8 zone for proposed Sasaeland Planned Development by Quasar Development -northeast corner of South Locust Grove Road and East Victory Road: De Weerd: I will go ahead, if Council does support this, and open 13, 14 and 15. Any objection? Okay. I will open the continued Public Hearing from October 14th, 2003, AZ 03-015, request for annexation and zoning of 9.8 acres from RUT to R-8 zones for proposed Sageland Planned Development. Also 14, continued Public Hearing from October 14th, 2003, PP 03-020, request revised preliminary plat approval of 41 building lots and nine other lots on 10.64 acres in a proposed R-8 zone for Sageland Planned Development and Item 15, continued Public Hearing from October, 14th, 2003, CUP 03- 036, request for Conditional Use Permit for a planned development with a private neighborhood park in an R-8 zone for proposed Sageland Planned Development and I will start with staff comments. Bird: Madam President? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: Before we start, I got a question to ask. We got a memo shoved on this -- and I realize we have opened all of them up, so I can bring this forward on the plat. I don't know if the applicant has seen this. It's from 10/21, which is today, 2003, from Wendy Kirkpatrick. There is quit a few changes regarding from the fire -- Meridian fire department. We seem to look pretty hard on applicants that bring stuff into us on the day of the hearing and here our own staff is. I don't know what the hold up was, whether Meridian City Council October 21, 2003 Page 20 of 68 it was the Meridian fire department, why this wouldn't have been picked up on the plat before October 14th by the fire department or if it's within the planning and zoning, but the main thing is I want to know if the applicant has seen this. De Weerd: Okay. Is the applicant here? I will need to swear you in first. Is the testimony you provide tonight the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Forrey: Yes. De Weerd: Please state your name and address. Forrey: Okay. Thank you, Madam President. Wayne Forrey with Pathway Planners Consulting. And my address is 1952 South Wildcreek Way in Boise. 83709. De Weerd: Thank you, Wayne. Forrey: And I am working with Quasar Development, the developer of Sageland, and, yes, we have a copy and we had also discussed with the fire department and knew that this would be prepared and available tonight. De Weerd: Okay. Bird: Thank you. De Weerd: Thank you. Anna? Powell: Madam President, Members of the Council, would you like for further explanation, Councilmember Bird, or -- Bird: I would love it. Powell: My understanding is that they did not receive a transmittal until yesterday. However, this was on previous versions of the plat, so they wouldn't have received latest one. There was a little bit of misunderstanding on the part of the fire department. The primary road going through the development is a 50 foot right of way, but it only has a 29 foot back of curb to back of curb and so he didn't realize that the parking restrictions needed to apply on all of this. All of those -- of those notes that were handed to you are in regard to just no parking signs, that's all they are relative to, and the applicant would have been aware of those restrictions throughout, it was just -- it was not stated on the final plat -- or on the preliminary conditions. I mean it's not -- we always have restricted parking on one side of the reduced right of way, so they weren't unusual comments, it's just we had never spelled them out. Bird: Thank you, Anna. Meridian City Council October 21, 2003 Page 21 of 68 Powell: Okay. Backing up. Now that we have gone to the specifics, back out to the general. This project is located -- it nestles up into Sherbrooke Hollows. It is located on Locust Grove and has frontage on Victory Road also. There are -- while we are out at this scale, there are some issues related to the fact that development of the Tuscany project down in this area that came through and we briefly discussed this development in relationship to that and I believe Brad is going to talk a little bit more about that as the presentation goes on. But just to let you know that this is the Tuscany project that was just approved. The yellow over here is the final plats that are going in for the previously approved Tuscany. Back to the site. There is -- the primary access road does come through and goes back out to the major arterial. There is one cul-de-sac off of it. This is a private drive. It terminates near the south end of the property, whereupon there is grass Greet to provide fire department access through that, so there will be gates and, then, grass Greet that will allow the fire trucks to drive back out onto Victory Road. There is also -- one of the notes given by Ms. Kirkpatrick is for no parking along this private drive. The original application had 39 building lots. The revised application added two lots in this area here. They didn't have to give up quite as much right of way to the highway district and they were able to get another couple lots in this area down here, so that's why we have the revised application before you. They have submitted this as a planned development. Their amenities include a large play area dawn here that will also serve as their drainage area and, then, the pathway system to the north of the project following along its boundary there. In exchange for the proposed amenities, they are asking for a reduced lot size of 5,000 square feet for detached and a reduced frontage down to a minimum of 20 feet and these are primarily on the cul-de-sac areas. This is the landscape plan. You can see the play area and the heavy landscaping berm toward the -- along Victory Road and along Locust Grove. There is also, you will notice, the pathway that gets -- goes out to the -- or the micropath that goes out to the larger pathway system. At the Planning and Zoning Commission one member of the public testified, not really in opposition, it was just comments from Matt Schultz with Tuscany Development regarding the sewer issues and no one -- no other members of the public testified. There was no changes to staff recommendations and no outstanding issues before the City Council. It does come with a recommendation for approval. I should note that it is two more lots and you can see -- you can see how -- this was the landscape plan. You can see the pattern of the lots here. This was the original application. This was the revised application. So, the Planning and Zoning Commission saw it with two fewer lots, but staff felt it wasn't a significant enough change to remand it back to Planning and Zoning Commission. And with that I will end -- no. I will pass it onto Brad. Watson: Thank you, Madam President, Council Members. When Tuscany Village preliminary plat was before you I was a little confused on how that turned out that night. I have since read the decision and order and I think I understand it. But just so that this application dovetails with what you approved for Tuscany Village, I was just going to point out would that decision and order said. It required the Tuscany developer to cost share in sewer from their eastern boundary to the intersection of Locust Grove and Victory Road, which is at their southwest corner. It said that this would be a private cost sharing agreement. The second paragraph said that if Quasar Development does not desire to enter into a private cost sharing agreement, then, the applicant Tuscany Meridian City Coundl October 21, 2003 Page 22 of 68 Village simply satisfy the standard full frontage condition policy to extend the ten inch sewer beneath the Ten Mile Drain at their eastern boundary at Tuscany's sole cost and that Quasar -- I'm paraphrasing -- would connect to the sewer at that point and bring it to their project. So, to me, the Tuscany was a bit of an if-then decision and order and I just wanted to make sure that that was in the forefront of people's minds when that got discussed tonight. That's all I have, unless you have any questions. De Weerd: Any questions for Brad? Okay. Watson: Thank you. De Weerd: Any questions for Anna either? Nary: Madam President? De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: Anna, I didn't notice in here -- and maybe I missed it, but was there concerns about that roadway at the Planning and Zoning level? Powell: President de Weerd, Councilmember Nary, which road? Nary: Isn't that a road that's lined with trees that runs right through the middle? Powell: The primary road? Sagemoor Drive? Nary: Sagemoor Drive. Powell: No, there wasn't. Nary: Because it -- I mean it sure seems like it's a pretty easy cut around for that corner and I'm just concerned with that -- with the high school north of this site, that people driving down this roadway to avoid that corner are just going to tum into that property and zip down that straight road and out onto Victory. Was there any thought about that or discussion about that at all? Powell: There wasn't -- I'm sorry. There was not discussion. I believe that the applicant -- the reason that they chose the 50 foot right of way with the 29 foot section was to provide kind of a narrow road with the kind of landscape feel, so that people felt like they should slaw down, but we did discuss it at the pre-apps and it didn't come up as an issue at Ada County Highway District. De Weerd: I think that that's the issue that Haven Cove has been having, isn't it? Nary: Yeah. Cut-through traffic and, actually, I think the road is a little windier than that. Meridian City Council October 21, 2003 Page 23 of 68 De Weerd: Yeah, it is. Nary: In Haven Cove. And people still cut through it and I just was concerned that you get traffic coming southbound on Locust Grove and can avoid that comer fairly easily by simply turning in this subdivision and racing down that road and coming out on Victory, so -- Bird: Madam President? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: Councilman Nary, my biggest concern is going west on Victory and swinging up there when you're late for school, swinging up through there and hitting Locust and going on that way. It's not the coming home, because you have to cross traffic, but -- to get in and to get out, but this way you don't, you turn right and you tum right and I'm with you, I see a real concern here on that. ACHD didn't have any problems and our Planning and Zoning Commission didn't have any problems, but I can see a real problem, especially you're going to have youth -- young kids out there getting ready for busses or walking to school and you get kids -- high school kids coming through there and I think you're a hundred percent right, I think that's going to be a real corner cutter. Nary: Just one more comment before the applicant gets up to speak. But Iguess I -- I guess I don't see narrow roadways as a means to slow traffic down. You know, the only things that slow traffic down tends to be some windier roadways, some islands in the road, something else besides just the road narrows. That doesn't seem to have worked anywhere. Bird: Kids just get smaller cars. Nary: So, I guess the applicant can address that when we get to their part. De Weerd: Okay. Anna, I guess I also had a question on the pathway. What does it connect to and what is the overall plan up there? Or down there. Powell: This is the -- would be the Nine Mile Creek pathway. I do believe that Tuscany has plans to develop that as part of their development. They have done the Ten Mile, we have got a pretty good start on the Ten Mile. This would be the Nine Mile and it is just cutting the corner. It would come from this property and, then, it would have to cross Locust Grove and go up through -- I believe it's Meridian Greens, the east side of Meridian Greens Subdivision. It's -- the other -- I'm being told it's Sportsman's Point. Sorry. De Weerd: Yes. Meridian City Council October 21, 2003 Page 24 of 68 Powell: I haven't got all the sub -- I haven't got them all memorized yet. Forgive me. The other thing it does provide kind of a feed into the neighborhood center, which is -- begins shortly east of their east property line. De Weerd: Okay. And the property just to the north of the western corner, is -- what is there right now? Powell: It's avery -- I think there is one house on it. It's not likely to change. It's pretty limited and the pathway likely wouldn't go up that whole way -- or, well, are you likely ever to see it come in as anything other than maybe a house or commercial use. If you saw the commercial use, you could extend the pathway up there, but they are pretty constrained. De Weerd: I guess my -- the reason for this questioning is can that pathway connect at least to Locust Grove, so you can have some kind of a system that goes down Locust Grove and that can connect to it, otherwise, you're going to have a beginning that may or may not ever develop. Powell: My understanding was that it did connect. Maybe the applicant -- yes, it does. De Weerd: Does it? Bird: Yes. Powell: Yes. De Weerd: Okay. I guess I didn't look close enough. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Would the applicant like to come forward? You're already sworn in, but if you will restate your name. Forrey: Yes. Wayne Forrey with Pathway Planners Consulting. De Weerd: Thank you. Forrey: I represent Quasar Development and Amanda Alvaro is here and she's a project manager and partner in Quasar Development and Brent Clayborne is here and he is the engineer on the project. And just to digress a little bit, I was reminded tonight when you read all of your ordinances, many years ago I was a scout master and I brought my scout troop to Meridian, so they could get their Citizenship in the Community Merit Badge and Mayor Kingsford said, you know, anyone that would like to read the ordinance and one of my scouts raised his hands and it was a 15 page ordinance -- Nary: Thank you for not bringing the scouts. Forrey: Yes. Let's talk about Sageland. It's a very unique site, in that it's surrounded by a canal and two roadways, two major roadways, and it has a very nice existing Meridian City Council October 21, 2003 Page 25 of 68 farmhouse. I'll use your pointer here. And it's a home that is usable, it's not a home that you would demolish or move off the site and there is all these mature trees here along Victory Road and all around that home. So, our challenge was to save the trees and try and save that good home that's there and work with the canal and the road system. We had a neighborhood meeting in July and one of the things that we committed to the neighbors is that we would save the home and the trees, we would put in a pathway and they really felt like, you know, that they wished that their developer had put in a pathway on the canal, but at least there was going to be a pathway on our side of the canal, so they felt that was good, and they felt that the buffer, if we were going to have a park, should be down in this corner, because of the intersection, the noise of -- just a traffic intersection. And so we submitted a planned development application to the city, using that as kind of some guiding principles in our application. We have --and, then, in return for the pathway, which is called for in the Comprehensive Plan, and for the park site in our planned development application, in return we are asking for 4.2 dwelling units per acre density in an R-8 zone and we have 41 total home sites and 20 percent of those home sites are larger than 6,500 square feet and so it's a mix from about 8,000 square feet and our minimum lot size is 5,000 square feet. The minimum home size that we have committed to is 1,400 square feet in size and the market value of these homes will start at 160 to 180 -- 160 to 180 thousand and go up from there. Amanda and her partners have done a very extensive marketing study and found that there is good demand in this south side of the interstate in Meridian for larger homes on smaller lots, for folks that want a nice high value home, but not a lot of yard maintenance, but they wanted a park and a pathway and a strong homeowners association. So, that, again, was some of the criteria we used in designing this project. We are going to extend the sewer. We support your sewer master plan and we are going to -- in a joint agreement with the Tuscany folks, come back here and pick up that sewer and we will take it all the way under the Eight Mile Canal, although I heard Nine Mile Canal, it's either the Eight or Nine Mile Canal, we will take it under that, because that's called for in your Comprehensive Plan, that allows sewer to go onto the east and into the south, into these properties here. So, we are going to follow your sewer master plan. And so we have tried to bring in some Comprehensive Plan elements, some neighborhood issues, some good development issues and, hopefully, you can see this is a good project. I have got some easel boards I'd like to show you and, then, a very short couple of slides, if Anna could put that on the screen. Okay. These are some photographs here of some of the styles of homes -- De Weerd: We need you to talk into the mike or you can use this mike over here, Wayne. Forrey: Okay. I'll set these on this front row of chairs right here. De Weerd: Okay. Powell: Madam Chair, Members of the Council -- Madam President, Members of the Council, apparently it is the Eight Mile. Iwas -- I misspoke. I'm sorry. Meridian City Council Octa6er 21, 2003 Page 26 of 68 Forrey: These are some actual photographs of homes that will be built in Sageland. These are homes that Amanda Alvaro and her partners went through the community -- some are in the Boise area, some are in Meridian, and each of the homes that you see here can fit on the lots that we have shown in Sageland. Some of the homes will have side entry garages. Some of them could have shared driveways, for some flexibility in design. They will have a very strong builder team, a strong builder design guidelines and homeowners association covenants, so we feel very good about the project. Wrought iron fencing, as well as vinyl fencing and here is a layout of the project. Now, let's go to the slide presentation, I'll just show you a couple of things here real quick. Let me walk you through some of the development features. The 20 foot pathway is here along the canal and it's in its own separate lot. I remember years ago in working with Nampa-Meridian Irrigation District, it seems like it was always a struggle to get a path inside the canal easement and this is a separate lot totally outside of the canal easement. The canal is 80 feet wide, ours is 40 feet right here from the center of the canal to this line, so there is no interference with Nampa-Meridian, this is a separate common lot that would be dedicated to the public for a community pathway system. This is a micropath here and we have a separated sidewalk, so that we can get street tree landscaping and one of the reasons we selected that was for the traffic calming. It may sound like it's unworkable, but the engineers -- the traffic engineers at ACRD say that the narrower roadway does tend to slow traffic. Now, given the discussion Council had about the potential of cut through with the new high school, there is a couple options. We could put a stop sign right here and make the traffic actually come to a stop right here -- I don't think that would bother the residents and that might stop some of the cut- through, once they realize they have got to make a stop when they penetrate in, they might think twice, well, heck, I will just go to the intersection next time. That's a possibility. If the fire department -- maybe there could be a speed hump or a speed bump here and maybe one back over here, and maybe a couple of speed bumps would work, if the fire department wouldn't object to that, and there -- we maybe even could path an island here and an island here. So, there is a couple options if the Council feels cut-through traffic could be an issue. ACHD did not and the Planning and Zoning Commission did not feel it would be cut-through, but that was before the new high school opened. So, maybe that's -- maybe some new awareness of the potential. Nary: It's all about timing. Forrey: Yeah. We have a large park right here, half ache park, and we are anticipating subsurface drainage here, so this is all surface open space and that's at this corner by design, because it's a nice buffer to that intersection. Some of the neighbors said, you know, we just don't want to see any intense development at that intersection, let's make a nice looking intersection here and so they felt good about having a park there. We are going to make utility crossings, as I mentioned, under the canal over here, so the sewer can continue on. We have angular lot lines here. They are not perpendicular to the street, so we get a stairstep effect as you go down the street, the fronts of houses will have a stairstep effect and that's just to give more variety to the way that street looks. We will have some shared driveways. There is a couple lots like this and maybe down in here on the cul-de-sac, where we could have shared driveways. We will have some Meridian City Council October 21, 200& Page 27 of 68 side entry garages and we identify in our application these lots here at these corners would have, actually, side-entry garages, again, for some architectural variety. And the neat thing about this design is we are able to save this house right here on this lot and we are able to safe these big mature trees all through here. We lose one tree and it's this tree right here, because it's in the roadway. But all the other trees on that site and the home have been saved. If you could go to the next slide. Here is a little closer look at that community pathway. It's 20 feet wide with a ten foot asphalt here and, then, this is the micropath here, totally outside the canal maintenance, area and it provides good neighborhood connectivity. Okay. Next. When we originally applied, we felt that ACHD would require 48 feet of right of way on Locust Grove. As it turns out, they actually said 35 feet, so we ended with 13 feet of less right of way along Locust Grove Road and that allowed us to add a lot here and add one lot in this area, as Anna Powell mentioned, and it also allowed us to increase the park by an extra 4.2 percent. So, that's why we went from 39 to 41 lots. Next. And here, again, is some styles of the homes can actually -- and we are anticipating will be built in Sageland and here is an example of that shared driveway where you have detached garages that could be set in the rear and so we are hoping for just a nice feel, these kind of homes that would be built in Sageland. Next. And this is the last slide. We agree and we accept with staff report and we had worked with the fire department on this last set of items and totally comfortable with that. We comply with your planned development standards. We support your adopted sewer master plan and we are going to carry that forward. We are going to provide a neighborhood buffer and a pathway connection, because any path we can get in Meridian is a good path. And that's it. Be happy to answer questions. De Weerd: Council, any questions? Bird: I have none. De Weerd: Thank you. Forrey: Thank you De Weerd: Is there anyone else who would like to testify in favor of this application? Is there anyone else who would like to testify? Come up for -- is the testimony you provide tonight -- if you will raise your right hand. I'm sorry. Is the testimony you provide tonight the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Tumaha: So help me God. De Weerd: Please state your name and address. Tumaha: My name is Lucian Tumaha and I live in Sherbrooke Hollows and I live on 3036 South Grime's Creek Avenue. And the reason I'm here tonight is not to oppose the development and, actually, we welcome the development. I'm part of the neighborhood - - the board asked me to come and see what Sageland is going to do, because to the east of Sageland another development is about to go in where they are requesting an Meridian City Council October 21, 2003 Page 28 of 68 R-8. But, anyway, the point is this, that when you look -- if we can have the development again with the road. There is Muir Place to the east and let me tell you when I come home -- and, again, nothing against this development, but there are some valid concerns that when traffic, you know, stops at the four way stop signs, people go through the new section of Muir Place, you know, avoiding Eagle Road and going on Victory and avoiding the four way stop. So, people will do that. But, hopefully, they should no better, but they do it. We see the traffic going through that poor subdivision all the time and it's like, wow, this is not a -- but, anyway, the concern is speed limit. The speed limit -- and I don't know if -- when you talk to ACHD they say it's okay, but there is Tuscany going in, there is Thousand Springs, again, to the east that has all these -- that traffic coming in. In the morning and in the evening -- you know, the evening when we leave to go to work and when we come home and the children come home and the buses come home, the traffic is just challenging on that stretch of Victory Road. It's not -- I mean when we moved in I remember it was 50 miles an hour, because it was considered out in nowhere. Well, now, of course, it's being developed and they dropped it to 45 and, you know, we can list it that, but now we are saying, well, with all these new developments, Tuscany, you know, Sageland, and, then, Soda Springs, I believe, is trying to go again next to Sherbrooke Hollows, so Sherbrooke Hollows has to deal with two new subdivisions, you know, abutting, you know, the existing subdivision or Sherbrooke Hollow. But the speed limit is truly a concern, because, again, there are a lot of children, you know, bicyclists, et cetera, you know, that travel that road and it's becoming more and more dangerous, so I just want to put it for the record that truly is, because one section of Victory, if you're going east towards Thousand Springs, it's 35. On other side, if you're heading west, it's 45 and we always said why don't you make it 35 all the way between Eagle Road and Locust Grove with all that development going in and make it one consist speed -- consistent, you know, speed limit and they said, well, the traffic does not justify it. Well, I don't know about reality, but I think reality does. I mean things are changing rapidly, but -- so I wanted to make that point, you know, tonight, because as these developments go in, those of us who live in these subdivisions are truly concerned and worried, because, you know, if it's 35 they are going to go 40. If it's 45, they are going 50. That's a dangerous speed. Very dangerous speed. And, you know, knowing what the high schoolers will do, God only knows, but -- anyway. The other issue is sewer. The sewer -- not in particular to Sageland, but as the eastern part is being developed where Soda Springs wants to go in, there is already an existing sewer on that lot that is going in and what we heard from the P&Z is they are going to connect the same size development, by the way, we are talking about. Powell: Madam President, Members of the Council, he's testifying about a project that hasn't come before you yet. I'm not sure if -- Tumaha: I guess what I'm trying to convey to the Council is the sewer issue, not the development itself, but it's the -- with this development going in and, then, the other development going in right after it and the sewer capacity that we were told right at Sherbrooke Hollows, it's already at capacity. So, we have a concern, you know, and they were proposing, you know, a temporary solution until they connect and, you know, we hope with planting the seed right now as these developments come through the Meridian City Council October 21, 2003 Page 29 of 68 Council, that we connect where it's supposed to connect, instead of having a patchwork connection and, then, connect and that's our whole point. I mean that was a concern. And the other thing is we are noticing as residents that live in Sherbrooke Hollow and Thousand Springs and, personally, as a resident of Sherbrooke Hollow, we were an R- 1, maybe an R-2, you know -- R-1, I believe, you know, residential. And now all these R- 8's are starting to go in and I guess there is a little confusion of what is the standard of R-8. Is it a -- for instance, Sageland, you know, is saying a minimum of 5,000, which means a 50 by -- you know, by 100. I mean simple math, you know. Okay. Now, another development may go in and say, well, we want a 3,500. I mean is there a limit? And that's the question that I'm posing tonight and the concern that the neighborhood has. Where is R-8 going to stop and what is the -- you know, the stepping stone where, for instance, Heritage Commons, you know, started this whole idea and it was a good idea, by the way, and, yet, again, the concern is to conserve the quality, the consistency, and the cohesiveness of all these new subdivisions that are going in, you know, next to the existing subdivisions and we want them fit in. I mean, again, nothing against Sageland, I want to make it clear. I mean in particular this development is by far going to look better than the other one that will be proposed to you in the near future. But for our educational purposes, you know, what are the standards for us residents who have chose and invested to live in these subdivisions, and we went in, by the way, based on the prior city plan, that you call it, the city plan and -- De Weerd: The Comprehensive Plan. Tumaha: Comprehensive Plan and now it's been amended, which means we have to live with the amendment and respectfully so, but, yet, we want to try to work with the Council on reducing the impact on the existing subdivisions -- I mean it's nice to have diversity and new things and we welcome it, but if it's well done we believe it is beneficial to all and that's where I will end it right there. De Weerd: Thank you. I think staff could probably answer a couple of your questions in regards to densities and that kind of issue. Anna, can you please -- Powell: Madam President, Members of the Council, the R-8 does allow for a density of up to eight dwelling units per acre. Sherbrooke is zoned R-4, which has a density of four units -- or up to four units to the acre. With the planned development provisions you can achieve that density with lesser standards, so I have indicated to Mr. Lucian that there is no minimum lot size standard if there is a PD, it's just a question of whether the amenities are being provided and the design that's proposed is worthy of allowing a reduced lot size and reduced frontages. De Weerd: Okay. I think you have heard the definition and maybe not put your mind at ease for future development, but as they come along, you know, notices will go out and the opportunity will exist there to provide public testimony and share your vision of that area. Certainly, that testimony holds great value and weight, so we would want to hear from the residents at that time and your point taken on this application, I -- it sounds like you're very supportive, as your homeowners association is, and so we appreciate your Meridian City Council October 21, 2003 Page 30 of 68 comments. Any questions or comments at this point, Council? Is there any further testimony on this application? Okay. Would the applicant like to summarize or any further comments? Forrey: Thank you, Madam President, Members of the Council. We are open to -- it sounds like the traffic is an issue, so if the Council has some direction on some way to control that or a potential control method, be it speed humps, islands at the intersections, or a stop sign control inside Sageland, we are open. We are open. Nary: Madam President? De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Forrey: We'd do something to try and address that. Nary: I did have another question for you, too, Mr. Forrey. I'm assuming that there is some type of fencing all the way around this subdivision? Forrey:. Yes. Nary: Vinyl fencing or something? Forrey: Correct. Nary: So, that that area there, that playground for children, I noticed in there there is a tot lot of some sort that's going to be there. Forrey: Yes. Nary: Do you know, approximately, where that's going to be in relation to the ground? Forrey: Right in the center here. Right there. Powell: Mr. Forrey, for the benefit of the public, would you mind using the one behind you? Forrey: Oh. Yes. I'm sorry. The play facilities would be right here. And there is the landscape buffer that the city requires here, with landscaping, and, then, there is landscaping in the park itself and so the playground is in this area here. Nary: And I guess it's just me, Mr. Forrey. I appreciate your comments about some of the speed challenges there. You know, I don't think we -- at least since I have been sitting here I don't think we have required speed bumps very much. I think there is other traffic issues concerning -- I guess I'm -- maybe growing up in Hawaii I'm much more in favor of islands and I think islands tend to slow the traffic down, because they are a visual -- they are a visual barrier to people and they have a tendency to do better than Meridian Ciry Council October 21, 2003 Page 31 of 68 just a narrow roadway in slowing traffic and Ithink -- I think both your residents there, as well as others, are going to really be concerned about that cut-through traffic and I think you are -- as Mr. Bird said, you have a fairly large development to the south of this property and to the east of this property with a lot of people that are going to cut through to go to that high school and I think without having some islands at both entryways there on Victory and Locust Grove and possibly one, even, in the center where that pathway is, approximately there, you're going to have a lot of people not only cut through, but speeding through. And I don't know that a stop sign is necessarily the best answer either we have found. That doesn't always work either, but the islands have a tendency to do that better. That's just my thought. Forrey: Okay. De Weerd: Okay. McCandless: Madam President? De Weerd: Mrs. McCandless. McCandless: Mr. Forrey, are you aware of any plans to widen or at least put some tum lanes in Victory Road at this point? Forrey: I'm aware, Madam President and Councilwoman McCandless, when we met with ACHD they indicated that we would provide to them 35 feet of right of way for future widening of Victory Road, but it was not within their five year plan, so I don't -- so I know they are anticipating some future improvement, 'but I don't know what the improvements are. McCandless: It just seems like there is an awful lot of traffic on Victory now and there is going to be even more and it's not very wide. Forrey: True. McCandless: Your development, however, is very nice. Forrey: Thank you. Nichols: Madam President? De Weerd: Mr. Nichols. Nichols: Mr. Forrey, on the lots -- the residential lots that butt up against the small park in the corner, have you got restrictions on the type of fencing on the backs of those lots? Forrey: Yes, we do. They are -- it's wrought iron railing on -- abutting the park itself. Meridian City Council October 21, 2003 Page 32 of 68 Bird: And you said vinyl the rest of it? Forrey: Yes. That's correct. Bird: Very nice. De Weerd: So, Mr. Forrey, will you have turn lanes, then, into your project? Forrey: ACHD did not require them. Just the right of way dedication at this point. De Weerd: And any -- Bird: Madam President? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: I think if we -- if he had turn lanes in there, especially the one on Victory -- especially the one on Victory, the entry on Victory, we would be encouraging the cut through. I'm like Mr. Nary, I don't know if the stop sign is going to stop it up there in the middle, but I think dividers at both entries and maybe in the center will do it, but we need -- we need to discourage that orit's -- we are not going to -- we are not going get it completely shut down, don't get me wrong, but we can -- if we can discourage 50 percent of it would definitely help your development, plus our police and stuff. But I think the dividers at both entries and in the center there will distract enough that maybe they -- 50 percent of them will say we will go to the corner, hit the stop sign, and go right there. But I think if we required entryways in, that we would be encouraging that to happen I'm afraid. Forrey: Okay. De Weerd: Okay. Any further comments or any questions? Bird: Madam President? De Weerd: Mr. Bird Bird: I would like to make one comment that they have done a nice job on that difficult corner to figure it out and I -- Forrey: Thank you. Bird: Keeping that old house -- which isn't that old of a house. It's a real nice house. And the trees and stuff, it's a very very nice job and will definitely add to the development, but --nice job. Meridian City Council October 21, 2003 Page 33 of 68 Forrey: Well, Quasar Development is a Meridian-based company and they are a very good development company. Thank you very much. Powell: Madam President, Members of the Council, might I ask the applicant one thing related to the photos that he's provided tonight? De Weerd: Yes. Powell: Several of those are alley loaded models, so I assume you're going to be using the shared drive, but I'm wondering if you want to ask for reduced rear setbacks for garages or joint garages to accommodate those shared drives if they are at the rear of the lot? I'm just not sure that that's been articulated in your request. Forrey: Good point. We would. I -- boy, I don't know if I'm prepared right at this moment to say what that setback would be, but we would like that flexibility, because some of these architectural styles we do want to have in Sageland and, you're right, they do have some flexibility on those setbacks on the rear for the detached garages. Powell: If you're coming back, we can work on it, but I don't know where Council is going, so -- Bird: Madam President? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: That has to be done in the preliminary plat and we can continue these and get it done. I think she brought up a great point for you that has been overlooked and we need to get it done in the preliminary plat. Forrey: Could it be handled in the development agreement? Bird: I'd have to refer to the attorney on that, but I don't think so, I think it has to show up on the -- I would prefer it to show up on the preliminary plat. Forrey: Okay. Bird: And, then, carry over to the final plat. Nary: Give you time to draw up those islands. Forrey: Okay. Bird: And we can continue this for another week or whatever you do and, basically, just come back, if Madam President is okay with this, it can just come back for this one change and we don't have to go through the public hearings on any other items, other Meridian City Council October 21, 2003 Page 34 of 68 than this one and, then, go from that, because I think you got to a nice development there and I think you can thank Anna for thinking about that. Forrey: Thank you. Traffic islands and setbacks. Bird: Yeah. Forrey: Okay. De Weerd: Yes. So, we can entertain continuing it for those two items. I would like to ask Bruce Mills as well, I appreciate the position of the homeowners association and their concern about the speed of traffic. With Eagle Road closed, it probably adds to the stretch that he's referring to. If -- and I know it's not really associated with this application, but if he can get us some information back, at least even look at traffic counts that we can even take it to our traffic safety committee for their recommendation, just report back on what your recommendation would be on pursuing what our options would be. Thank you, Bruce. Thank you, Wayne. Forrey: Thank you. De Weerd: I would entertain a motion on Items 13, 14 and 15. Nary: Madam President? De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: I move that we continue Items 13, 14 and 15, the AZ 03-015, PP 03-020, and CUP 03-036, all for Sageland Planned Development at the northeast corner of South Locust Grove and East Victory Road and I guess just a week or two. One week or two weeks, Mr. Forrey? Forrey: One. Nary: One week would be adequate? I would move to continue this Public Hearing to the October 28th, 2003, meeting for information and -- I guess further information to be provided in regards to rear setbacks -- request for some exceptions to rear setback requirements, as well as islands for the roadway for traffic calming. Bird: I second that with one question. That would -- that would -- what we are asking for is on the preliminary plat? Nary: Yes. Bird: Everything is in on the preliminary plat? Nary: Yes. Meridian City Council October 21, 2003 Page 35 of 68 Bird: Thank you. Second agrees. De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to continue public hearings on Items 13, 14 and 15 to October 28th on the two specified issues.~All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 16: Public Hearing: CPA 03-003 Request for amendment to the text of the Comprehensive Plan to allow new residential uses within the mixed use WWTP zoning designation for proposed Staaleton Subdivision by Wardle and Associates - 3680 West Ustick Road: De Weerd: Okay. Our following items all are regarding the same application, so if Council doesn't object, I'd like to open public hearings -- Powell: Madam Chair, can you just open the Comprehensive Plan amendment first and deal with that before you open the others? De Weerd: You bet. Okay. I will open Item 16, Public Hearing CPA 03-003, request for amendment to the text of the Comprehensive Plan to allow new residential uses within the Mixed Use WWTP zoning designation for proposed Stapleton Subdivision by Wardle and Associates and I'll open the Public Hearing with staff comments. Powell: Madam President, Members of the Council, this is a request to amend the Comprehensive Plan to allow residential uses within the Mixed Use Wastewater Treatment zoning designation. As you know, this was swell-discussed item when the Comprehensive Plan amendment went through. The area shown in brown was designated as -- as having special constraints on it, due to the fact that the wastewater treatment plant was in the area. One of those constraints was specifically to discourage residential and pretty much just right out not allow it. The Planning and Zoning Commission did take testimony. We did try to take it just on the Comprehensive Plan amendment portion. There was quite a bit of testimony from the surrounding neighbors. Most of them did seem to be in favor of some residential use within the area, although I think generally it was expressed as more in line with the size acreages that are out there, which tend to be one to two acres or larger. I think one member of the public testified, you know, horse people don't mind the smell as much, I think was her direct quote. There was quite a bit of testimony about the unsure nature of this area and how several applications have been denied in the area, but I believe all of those occurred before the Comprehensive Plan was finished and adopted and I'm the sure the applicant will address that in his testimony as well. The Planning and Zoning Commission also took in testimony about how other cities have dealt with their treatment plants or other kind of noxious uses held by the city and also the City of Meridian -- or city of Boise with their avogation easements related to the Boise airport. So, having taken all that testimony, they asked the applicant to come back with some proposed easements to address the noise issues associated with the wastewater