HomeMy WebLinkAbout2011-02-08E IL~IAN~----
IDAHO
CITY COUNCIL SPECIAL
WORKSHOP MEETING AGENDA
Tuesday, February 08, 2011 at 6:00 PM
6:15 PM
1. Roll-Call Attendance
O David Zaremba X Brad Hoaglun
X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
2. Pledge of Allegiance (Pg. 1)
3. Adoption of the Agenda (Pg. 1-2)
4. Consent Agenda (Pg. 2)
A. Approve Minutes of January 25, 2011 City Council Regular
Meeting
B. NHS Lending Community Development Block Grant (CDBG)
PY2010 Sub-Recipient Agreement
C. Ada County Housing Authority Community Development Block
Grant (CDBG) PY2010 Sub-Recipient Agreement
5. Community Items/Presentations (Pg. 2-14)
A. Presentation Regarding Dynamis/Ada County Renewable
Energy by Commissioner Sharon Ullman and Lloyd Mahaffy
6. Items Moved From Consent Agenda (Pg. 14)
7. Department Reports
A. Public Works: Source Water Protection Update (Pg. 14-27)
B. Public Works: Discussion on Backflow Testing Program
(Pg. 27-32)
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda -Tuesday, February 08, 2011 Page 1 of 2
All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearing,
please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting.
Amended onto the Agenda
8. Executive Session per Idaho State Code 67-2345 (1) (f) - To Consider
and Advise its Legal Representatives in Pending Litigation(Pg. 32-33)
Into Executive Session at 8:03 PM
Out of Executive Session at 8:20 PM
Meeting Adjourned at 8:20 PM
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda -Tuesday, February 08, 2011 Page 2 of 2
All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearing,
please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting.
Meridian City Council Workshop Meeting February 8 2011
A meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:15 p.m., Tuesday,
February 8, 2011, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, Keith Bird, Brad Hoaglun, and Charlie
Rountree.
Members Absent: David Zaremba.
Others Present: Bill Nary, Jacy Jones, Mike de St. Germain, Mark Niemeyer, Tom
Barry, Kyle Radek, and Rich Dees.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
David Zaremba X Brad Hoaglun
X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
De Weerd: I will go ahead and call this meeting to order. I'd like to thank you for your
patience for getting this meeting started. For the record it is Tuesday, February 8th. It's
almost 6:15. I will start tonight's meeting with roll call attendance. Madam Clerk.
Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance
De Weerd: Thank you. Item 2 is the Pledge of Allegiance. If you will all rise and join us
in the pledge.
(Pledge of Allegiance recite.)
Item 3: Adoption of the Agenda
De Weerd: Okay. Item No. 3 is our adoption of the agenda.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I have one item that we need to add to the printed agenda. It could be Item 8,
the last item for the agenda for tonight will be an Executive Session as per Idaho Code
67-2345(1)(f). So, we will add that to the agenda and with that I move adoption of
tonight's agenda.
Bird: Second.
Meridian City Council Workshop Meeting
February 8, 2011
Page 2 of 33
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda as amended. All those
in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 4: Consent Agenda
A. Approve Minutes of January 24, 2011 City Council Regular
Meeting
B. NHS Lending Community Development Block Grant (CDBG)
PY2010 Sub-Recipient Agreement.
C. Ada County Housing Authority Community Development Block
Grant (CDBG) PY2010 Sub-Recipient Agreement
De Weerd: Item 4 is our Consent Agenda.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: There are no changes to our Consent Agenda, so I move approval of the
Consent Agenda and the Mayor be authorized to sign and Clerk to attest.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda. If there is
no discussion by Council, Madam Clerk.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, absent; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 5: Community Items/Presentations
A. Presentation Regarding Dynamis/Ada County Renewable
Energy by Commissioner Sharon Ullman and Lloyd Mahaffy
De Weerd: Item No. 5, we have our Community Presentation this evening. We have
Commissioner Ullman with us and also Lloyd Mahaffy. We appreciate you being here.
We also have members from our SWAC committee. Thank you all for being here as
well. And, Mayor Corrie, it's nice to see you. I will go ahead and turn this over to Mr.
Mahaffy.
Meridian City Council Workshop Meeting
February 8, 2011
Page 3 of 33
Mahaffy: Thank you. Good evening. Lloyd Mahaffy, 776 East Riverside Drive, Eagle,
Idaho. I am the chairman and chief executive officer of Dynamis Energy and we are
involved in a waste energy project, which Mayor de Weerd heard about a week ago and
wanted me to present to you, so I'm delighted to be here tonight.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Mahaffy: What I want to do is just walk you through a brief presentation and, Jacy, do I
use a mouse or what do I do here? I'm an Apple guy, so this is a Windows platform.
Just click this? Great. I'm not driving well. Okay. So, just a brief overview of what we
are doing. The concept of waste energy has been around for a long time. It's about a
20 to 25 year old concept, but the technology has evolved pretty dramatically since
then. We define sort of the first generation as mass burn technology, which is really just
destroying the waste. That was a really bad idea and so they came along with new
technologies to both destroy the -- destroy the waste at a higher temperature, but they
still had lots of problems with both the residue of the waste that's left over, as well as the
emissions and we are really a third generation technology called thermal oxidation. And
I will tell you that one of the neat things about this company is it was invented by an MIT
engineer and it's a technology that he patented and he happens to live in Meridian and
we had a chance to see this technology almost two years ago. Part of the team was in
Idaho, part of the team was in Iowa, we actually bought the company and relocated it to
Idaho. So, our world headquarters for Dynamis Energy is now based in Idaho. But we
are involved in all of the aspects from design, build, own and operate the plant. I just
want to give you -- I'm trying to get this thing to work well, but it's not -- okay. This kind
of gives you a sense of what the world is looking like. Countries around the world are
burying their waste. I have to tell you that burying our waste is probably the second
dumbest thing that humans do. I can't really define the first, but this probably comes to
be a close second, because all we are doing is leaving the trash and all of the methane
gas and things that go with it for a future generation. So, this kind of gives you a sense
of what's going on around the world. You can see that in the US we are about 60
percent landfill, but look at China, 95 percent of China, with 1.2 billion people, is burying
their waste. That's a really bad idea. So, we are trying to make a difference in the
world the way the waste is destroyed. And, Jacy, I'm not having much luck.
De Weerd: Don't worry, even those of us that use that kind of system can't.
Mahaffy: Okay. So, there are a couple of key features about this technology. Most of
the systems around the world today will -- can only manage acertain -- different types
of waste streams. Dynamis Energy can process a much larger, wider spectrum of
different types of waste, everything from municipal solid waste to tars, to medical waste,
to oily rags, just a range of different waste streams that we can process. The
benchmark for destruction today is about 70 percent. We actually destroy 95 percent of
what goes in, with only a five percent residual and all of the residue coming out is either
glass, metal, or sort of a bottom ash that is nonhazardous. So, we have got a whole
new benchmark in destruction. We generate a lot of power per ton going in. A 250 ton
Meridian City Council Workshop Meeting
February 8, 2011
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plant will produce somewhere in the ten to 12 megawatts per hour, so it's a very, very
efficient system. And we have very low emissions. In fact, some of the plants we have
built are in nonattainment zones. Just to give you a sense of the different types of
waste we can process, here are some examples. Industrial packaging, tires, sewage
sludge, a lot of different things can go in the system, but, again, it has a very efficient
outcome. We are not an incinerator. We are no type of incinerator whatsoever. We --
we are a gasification process. And if you remember basic chemistry you can gasify any
organic compound at 800 degrees and so it's almost like a slow charcoal cooking device
that slowly turns the organic waste into a gas. We take that gas, clean it up, and, then,
send it to a boiler, the boiler makes steam, the steam turns a turbine, the turbine makes
electricity. So, it's a very, very simple system, but it's a very complex process, using
digital control technology to make it operate. One of the things that we focus very
carefully on is exactly how these plants are built. One of the challenges in building
these kind of plants is they are not scalable. They are usually custom designed, custom
engineered and, then, custom operated. One of the things that Dynamis does, which is
making us very successful around the world, is we have built a standard design of our
plant and it scales at 125 ton increments. So, if a community buys an initial plant of 125
tons, we can grow up to 250 to 375 and so forth. The plant plan for Ada County right
now is initially a 250 ton plant, which we can grow in increments of 125 over time. One
of the things that people say is what does a plant look like and this is, actually, the
design of the building and this holds 250 tons a day. It all happens inside the building,
And the trucks go in, off load their waste, the waste is processed, turned into electricity
and at the end of the day the glass and the metal is sent to different recyclable
companies and, actually, the ash itself can go to asphalt or concrete plants. So, pretty
much a hundred percent of what's going in has got some benefits, either turning it into
electricity or going out to some residual recyclable. This also seems like a good idea,
but are there any plants running. This is an actual plant that we built. It's actually in
Alaska. These are 15 ton chambers, so you get a sense of the size of the internal
chamber with an individual standing there and so there are about ten of these chambers
this size in a plant that we are talking and we can see some of the other pictures of the
plant that was built. I think the last thing -- which probably the most exciting to me, is
this is the actual air testing results from the plant that's on line in Alaska and you can
see the EPA standards for air quality emissions and you can see the performance of the
plant right next door. So, what we are doing is building a plant like this in Ada County.
We also have plants unfolding in other parts of the world, not just in the United States,
but in Europe and in the Caribbean and South America. We have also been able to
design a mobile platform, which is a very small scale version of this, which is designed
for the US military forward operating bases, FEMA, as well as small islands in the
Caribbean and the Pacific. So, it's the same technology, it's scaled down to about five
or ten tons a day. So, this technology is proprietary, it is patented, it is held by the
company in Eagle. We can manage these plants anywhere in the world from Idaho and
that's one of the plans is to have a network operations centered here to run everything.
So, we approached Ada County about building a show plant up at the landfill. We have
people flying in from all over the world to look at this. We had the Brazilians in last
week, we had the Italians the week before that and so they want to come see us and,
then, they want to see our plants. We wanted one in our own backyard. So, we are
Meridian City Council Workshop Meeting
February 8, 2011
Page 5 of 33
delighted to team with Ada County on the landfill. They have a number of different
renewable energy technologies unfolding up there. I'll let Commission Ullman talk about
that. But this is what Dynamis Energy is doing, we are really proud to be an Idaho
company and we look forward to turning a lot of waste into electricity.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, do you have any questions at this point?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: I have a list, but not at this point.
De Weerd: Okay. Okay. Staff, any questions? Thank you. That's an exciting project.
Mahaffy: Thank you. You're welcome. I'll defer to Commissioner Ullman to see if she
has any comments or questions.
De Weerd: Good evening. We appreciate you joining us.
Ullman: Thank you, Madam Mayor and Members of the Council. It's a pleasure to be
here this evening. You have seen our Dynamis project. Lloyd Mahaffy and some of his
colleagues came and gave a presentation, tried to sell my board on this concept and it's
-- we are a hard sell, I have got to admit. But after answering all of our questions and
after they corrected their math, we decided to move forward. And I think it was just
Lloyd who made the mathematical error, it wasn't their engineers. In any event, we
decided to move forward with this project because 250 tons a day of waste can be
taken out of the waste stream and, as Lloyd says, burying it in the landfill up in the
foothills is the worst thing to do with it. To us we are going to be able to take
somewhere between 1/8th and 1/6th of the waste out of the waste stream at the landfill
for time being, once the first -- the first phase of this project goes in. As Lloyd pointed
out, they can also build additional phases and one of the benefits that I didn't even
recognize up front -- he's pointed out that these additional phases can be built fairly
quickly, somewhere between 12 and 18 months and generate an enormous amount of
power. So, where we are trying to promote economic development in this area to
stimulate the economy, once we have this first phase up and running, if we have
employers interested in coming to the area that are looking for a source of power to be
provided quickly, we can outcompete most of the rest of the country in that regard. He
also didn't mention the fact that once the plant is up and running I believe they will be
employing 47 people full time. During the build phase they will be employing 750
industrial construction workers, which, obviously, a positive impact on the community.
This is not our first project at the landfill as far as renewable energy technology. Back
when I was in office the first time in 2001 and '2, the county started talking about doing a
gas-to-energy project. That project is up and running. We are partnering with Fordistar
right now; they have two engines that are pulling the methane gas out the landfill. We
are accomplishing a number of different things. We are cutting down on the odors,
making DEQ, EPA and our neighbors somewhat happier and we are simultaneously
generating power and generating dollars for the county -- I will say property taxpayers,
Meridian City Council Workshop Meeting
February 8, 2011
Page 6 of 33
although the landfill is an enterprise fund, we are not -- these are not property tax
dollars, but, of course, when you pay to take trash to the landfill and when you pay for
your trash collection service a piece of that also goes to supporting the landfill
operation. Right now Fordistar is generating about a quarter of a million dollars a year
for the county and we are -- they are going to be adding two more engines and so we
will -- we are going to be doubling that income, that revenue stream for the county,
while, again, simultaneously cleaning that methane out of that -- out of the landfill. So,
think we are doing a good thing as far as best utilization of resources. The fact that we
have Fordistar already up there operating and, then, Dynamis came along and our
board was also bought up to speed on the project that Micron has going on right now,
they have partnered with a company out of Australia that they are using their clean
rooms that were sitting idle and have now created an off-shoot, if you will, that is
creating solar panels. They have got some interesting and fairly unique technology and
will be employing somewhere between 700 and 800 employees over the next five years.
So, I started thinking about the fact that we have got a number of renewal energy
technology companies and projects going in the area and Lloyd and I have actually met
with a number of people from various state and local agencies and have started talking
about doing more in that regard. At the county level we are trying to promote our landfill
as a place to put these type of projects. We are calling it the Ada Renewable
Technology Industrial Complex, ARTIC, and, no, it doesn't have the other C in it, it's not
cold up there, but it's a simple acronym, easy to remember, and, again, the concept of
promoting renewable energy technology. We have an ongoing request for information
out in various publications and we will be putting that out periodically looking -- you
know, if people want to come do a solar project up there or wind power, there is a
problem, if you will, with solar and wind energy in that it's not consistently generated.
When the sun is not out, when the wind is not blowing. The beauty of the gas-to-energy
project and in this case with Dynamis waste to energy, they can generate power around
the clock and in a steady stream. Dynamis can actually ramp up and down as needed
according to Idaho Power's needs, which is a huge benefit. But we are opening the
landfill to these renewable energy technology projects. And again -- so, we are
promoting that concept at the county facility. But in a broader sense would like to use
the whole concept of renewable energy technology to brand and market this area that,
again, we have got a number of private companies, even downtown where we have got
geothermal energy -- or geothermal heat, excuse me. We have so many resources in
this area that to the extent that we can use that and market the area, we are going to be
doing we hope an inventory in the area of companies, projects, and so forth and hope to
get that off the ground here in the near future. And with that I would stand for questions
and I'm sure Lloyd would as well.
De Weerd: Thank you, Commissioner Ullman. Councilmen, any questions?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Councilman Rountree.
Meridian City Council Workshop Meeting
February 8, 2011
Page 7 of 33
Rountree: Commissioner Ullman, you mentioned income stream from the existing
activity up there. Theoretically this concept is going to generate power. I assume that
the rate payers are going to have to pay for it, both the consumers of electricity, as well
as the folks that pay rates to get -- pay the tipping fees. Is that income steam going to
go back into the landfill, so we can keep the rates low for tippage fees?
Ullman: It's a combination. The agreement that we have with Dynamis at this point is
that the first five years they will -- they will take our waste with no fee. We put just under
two million dollars into the project up front to help develop the plans for our site and,
then, we will ultimately get that two million dollars back, plus the five years for free.
Ultimately we also hope that Dynamis will be able to get the necessary permitting to
take our household -- or our hazardous waste, which is now costing us a million dollars
a year, if they are able to get the permitting in place, we will be saving a million dollars a
year, because we will be putting our hazardous waste through Dynamis, rather than
sending it out of the area for processing or disposal. We have not negotiated the final
agreement with regard to how exactly the financial arrangements will work between
Dynamis and Ada County. Lloyd isn't aware, but I am going to try to get a piece of their
power generation sales. At this time, you know, that has not been worked out, but we
do know that for the first five years there would be no cost for the disposal of the 250
tons of waste which, actually, is beneficial to our rate payers in two regards. Not only
are we not paying to bury that waste, but it costs -- the last landfill expansion we had in
this construction environment -- meaning it's relatively low cost -- was eight million
dollars. So, the concept of pulling, as I say, somewhere between 1/8th and 1/6th of our
waste out of the waste stream will save us big dollars down the road by not having to
expand our landfill as quickly for burying trash. And maybe Lloyd can talk a little bit
about what it costs for them to process the waste. There will be a cost, but it will not be
higher than what we are already -- costs that we are already incurring. I guess the
simple answer is rate payers will save money in the long run.
Rountree: So, I guess the answer I'm wanting to hear is that there won't be any rate
changes in tippage fees for at least five years?
Ullman: Correct. That is certainly the plan with regard to Dynamis, yes.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Question, Commissioner. This is not going to be an inexpensive plant. I
mean these types of things typically are a major investment. What -- how does that
initial investment happen? Is that coming from the county? Is it coming from Dynamis?
What type of arrangement is that going to be to get that plant up and operating?
Ullman: And the county put 1.9875 million dollars into the project up front, which we will
be getting back somewhere within I believe the next six months or so. We paid for the
development of the plans for the project and, then, Dynamis will be paying us back --
Meridian City Council Workshop Meeting
February 8, 2011
Page 8 of 33
basically purchasing those plans back from us and is using that arrangement to have
qualified for additional funding. And maybe, Lloyd, you can take it from there.
De Weerd: Lloyd, if you could -- yes. Thank you.
Mahaffy: Dynamis is providing all the private financing for the plant.
Ullman: But there was -- additionally there was stimulus money that was going into the
project as well. Perhaps you can --
Mahaffy: QKBE, as well as others.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Beyond five years has he done the math to determine what kind of revenue
stream you will be generating and what your operation and maintenance costs are
going to be and our concern is that if the rates go up, the county is just going to pass
those on and we get to pass them on and the rate payers are paying for this. I don't
care what you think, they are paying for it. So, what's going to happen in the future?
Mahaffy: We are -- when the waste comes into the landfill it's going to go one of two
places. It either gets buried or it goes to our plant. We are accepting whatever waste
comes to us. The economics of tipping fees between the county and the cities --
between the county and anybody coming in are defined by the county. We are a
recipient of waste coming in once it enters the landfill. So, whatever our transaction is
between us -- we have agreed for no tipping fees for five years and so beyond that point
it's a negotiation between Dynamis and the county, but it's really adecision -- the county
is going to define what their tipping fees are. We don't work with them with economics.
We don't define that.
Ullman: Madam Mayor, if I might clarify. My colleagues and I for the last couple of
years have been fighting the prospect of a landfill tipping fee rate increase. Because of
EPA regulations we have to put a huge amount of money aside for future -- well, we
have daily cover, but we have ultimate, you know, final closure and we are doing
everything in our power to postpone that -- actually having to put out those huge sums
of money. And we feel that Dynamis is actually going to help us to extend the life of the
landfill considerably and actually put off having to pay those closure fees. So,
ultimately, I believe that rate payers will be saving money. I am very sensitive to the
concept of increased costs. In the '90s actually was an intervener in the water cases
with Boise Water and United Water. We are very, very conscious of what this project
means and we did evaluate it. I didn't bring figures with me. But at the time that it was
being proposed to us, as I say, we went through with a fine tooth comb to make sure
this was not going to be detrimental to our rate payers. It's not that Dynamis proposed
some new technology and, oh, good, we are going to go throw a whole bunch of money
Meridian City Council Workshop Meeting
February 8, 2011
Page 9 of 33
at them and our rate payers would be paying more money. On the contrary, we view
the Dynamis project as making better use of resources, generating power, generating
jobs and economic development and ultimately saving us money.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Rountree: How close are you to getting discharge permits for air quality?
Mahaffy: We are in the -- we are in the final stage of air quality permit with DEQ. We
are a minor air quality permit, so we are not a major, but I'll defer to DEQ on exactly
where they say they are in the process, but our sense on the dialogue with them is we
are approaching the end of the process. That's a key point. Our emissions are so low;
we are about the same as one Chevy diesel truck operating for a year. So, it's a very,
very low emission standard. It's been verified by them. Naturally what's important
about next generation technology is you can destroy more waste, you can make more
power, the residuals have recyclable value and your emissions are very low and that's
been the problem with the plants in the past and that's the brilliance of what these
engineers developed.
De Weerd: And you can see that in your table.
Mahaffy: Right.
De Weerd: That was impressive.
Mahaffy: That's the actual operating results from a plant. That's not -- that's not an
average. That's real data. The other thing I think is -- you know, we are taking in 250
tons a day. I think the average daily waste stream going to the landfill is somewhere
between 1,500 and 2,000. Our goal over time is to -- we would like to be intercepting
somewhere between a third and a half of the daily waste stream. You know, one of the
challenges, as the Mayor knows -- I was the chairman of the Economic Advisory
Council for the state of Idaho and one of the challenges in recruiting companies to this
area, big data centers, is the ability to have enough additional capacity for power. If
you're Idaho Power you don't want to build in advance of the demand. One of the nice
things about Dynamis Energy is we can actually double our output every 12 months,
because there is enough waste stream. So, now the community can go about and
recruit a data center. Nothing bothered me more than when Apple Computer selected
North Carolina for a data center. They spent three billion dollars. We should have had
a shot at that. So, now we have some flexibility to how we recruit companies, because
we can double the power output every 12 months.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Meridian City Council Workshop Meeting
February 8, 2011
Page 10 of 33
Hoaglun: Lloyd, what -- you have an operation in Alaska that's up and going right now?
Where is that located?
Mahaffy: It's in Barrow.
Hoaglun: In Barrow. Okay. And what was the -- how much per ton is that one? That
was a smaller one --
Mahaffy: That's about 40 tons a day.
Hoaglun: Forty tons.
Mahaffy: Yeah.
Hoaglun: Okay. Thank you.
Rountree: Madam Mayor`?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Is the existing landfill itself a potential resource? In other words, can you
mine what's there and utilize it in your system or is that --
Mahaffy: That's a great question. We get asked that all the time. It's really tough to
mine a landfill, because as soon as you start doing that you start releasing methane
gas. So, our view on landfills is leave them alone, keep them covered. If there is a
methane capture system, like Fortistar, that's a potential fuel source for us. But we only
use about three minutes of fuel per eight hour cycle, so it's a very low fuel demand,
which means our net power output is very high. So, any chance we can tap into
methane capture that's a good thing. What we are really trying to do is to intercept the
daily waste stream, so you don't have to spend money on landfill expansion. You know,
cell expansion is very expensive, so if you can intercept that and extend the life of the
landfill that makes it better.
De Weerd: Mr. Barry, did you have a question?
Barry: Madam Mayor, I'd like to yield a few moments to one of the SWAC -- Solid
Waste Advisory Committee members, our environmental manager for the city of
Meridian, if you want to take it away.
De Weerd: Mollie.
Mangerich: Thank you. I so appreciative meeting you this evening and you coming
tonight and telling us about the proposed project up at the Ada County Landfill. Our
Solid Waste Advisory Commission has been briefed on this subject and so we have got
Meridian City Council Workshop Meeting
February 8, 2011
Page 11 of 33
some questions to ask and if I may I will proceed. My understanding through the
professional services agreement is that the Dynamis facility would be taking household
hazardous waste or hazardous waste as a fuel source as a feed stock. Can you explain
what materials you're looking at impact on the household hazardous waste program as
it exists?
Mahaffy: Well, we are taking -- we are taking --
De Weerd: Lloyd, if you could get closer to the mike. Thank you.
Mahaffy: Okay. We are taking -- we will be taking residential MSW coming in on the
different trucks. We are working with DEQ to understand what the hazards waste
definition is for the stuff coming in on the trucks. The reality is residential MSW has very
little hazardous waste in it as a percentage of the total outcome. But we have a
intercept process when the trucks come in we will be running a tipping floor where we
intercept a lot of this on the front end and, then, we inspect on the back end as well.
So, we will be working with the hazardous waste unit at the landfill on site to process
anything that we have to intercept coming in. So, we intercept it on the front end and if
something like a battery or a thermometer gets through we have got a mercury
detection system on the back side looking for mercury and, then, we have visual
inspection and sniffers again to look for batteries.
Mangerich: Thank you for that. I am hoping that as more questions will be generated
as we learn more about the process and we become educated in this technology, our
SWAC is interested to know if we may -- or this will be open, the design for the facilities,
so that we can have public comments and workshops on this, so that we understand the
technology impact on us and our rate payers. That's a statement. We are hoping that
that will be made available. The City of Meridian and the city of Kuna provide -- I think
we are the second largest waste -- we are the second largest waste provider to your
landfill and as such we generate tip fees for Ada County. However, we are not under
flow control at this point. We understand that through Clark county Dynamis has
developed and worked with the development of an eastern regional solid waste disposal
district by which flow control and waste will be mandated to go to the Dynamis facility or
transfer stations. Is that something that is being looked at here for Idaho and for Ada
County?
Ullman: I'm not sure I understand the question.
Mangerich: To set up a solid waste district to insure that you have the waste flow at the
Dynamis plant.
Ullman: No. Not at this time. I am not foreseeing any difficulty at this point in the
waste --
De Weerd: Commissioner Ullman, I'm sorry.
Meridian City Council Workshop Meeting
February 8, 2011
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Ullman: Sorry. As you know, we have the trash hauling contract with -- for
unincorporated Ada County and Allied Waste brings trash from Boise city and so forth.
At this point we are not contemplating that anybody else is going to provide landfill
disposal services at such a significantly reduced rate, either in this area or, for example,
in Elmore county that all of a sudden our waste stream is going to go to nothing.
Mangerich: Thank you. And, then, a third comment that came up within our Solid
Waste Advisory Commission was that we are knowledgeable that our Ada County
Landfill is installing scales and we will soon be moving from a volume based tip fee to a
tonnage based tip fee and most likely there will be a reassignment of how much
residents will pay, versus commercial accounts. So, there will be changes and perhaps
increases to a certain target sector and understandably so. So, I would just caution that
the statement that the waste energy would not increase our solid waste tip fees, that
there are changes coming operationally that will provide some possible rate changes in
the future.
Ullman: Madam Mayor -- and I hope I made that very clear that the Dynamis project --
the impact of the Dynamis project is not expected to impact tipping fees. We were
required and mandated by EPA to implement scales at a cost of two million dollars,
scales that we on the local level didn't feel were necessary. We are in the process of
installing those scales now and initially when they are installed we will be still assessing
fees on the basis of the volume, as we have been historically, but we will also be
weighing the waste and looking for the correlation between the two and we will
ultimately come up with a new rate structure and it's my goal to have no impact -- no net
impact on rate payers. It will not be possible, and I'm sure you are aware, to make it
exactly equal. But to the extent that we can, we are not going to try to bury an increase
in cost in that conversion to using scales. At the point in time when we are adopting
new landfill rates that there will certainly, I believe, be a public hearing involved in that
process and, you know, again, it's our hope to keep those as revenue neutral as
possible. We do, on an ongoing basis, have to be looking at our expenses at the
landfill. We are not looking to Dynamis to increase our costs. Again, our landfill director
last year came to us four or five times asking us for a rate increase and each time we
said, no, go back and figure out a different way of doing things. So, my -- at least two of
the members of my board were there, then, and I know were very, very conscientious
about trying to hold our rates down to the lowest possible level. We also need to be
able to operate the landfill and at this point in time if somebody comes to us and can
justify a rate increase, because it's absolutely necessary for the continued operation and
necessary to satisfy our ultimate requirements from the EPA, we might be forced to
increase rates, but, again, not because of the Dynamis project and we are going to do
everything in our power to keep rates at either the current level or as low as we possibly
can.
De Weerd: Well, I would just like to say this sounds like a very exciting project and it's --
it's always the new projects that cause questions and the better understanding of
business relationships and how it works to the advantage, too, of the rate payer, which
we all are. But I think as you're successful in creating this industry cluster out at the
Meridian City Council Workshop Meeting
February 8, 2011
Page 13 of 33
waste or -- out at the wastewater treatment plant -- you're always welcome to partner at
our wastewater treatment plant as well. But as you create more partnership I think it
can, in the long run, benefit the rate payers, as mentioned in slowing the need to open
up new cells and maybe not have to open them at all. But, certainly, I appreciate
SWAC and their continuous concern of impact. I don't think it's something we brag
about that we are the highest waste producer -- or whatever it was you said. I kind of
cringed with that. Second. But we are trying to look at our recycling programs and do
our part to reducing the flows. So, whatever Dynamis cannot utilize.
Ullman: Madam Mayor -- and, again, our board is sensitive to that concept as well. We
only control trash collection in unincorporated Ada County, obviously, but when we
looked at our contract last year and put it out to bid, we did make the choice to go to the
single stream recycling for the very purpose you're talking about. The more people who
-- the simpler we make recycling the more people will do it and the more waste we will
pull out of that waste stream. So, obviously, that's a piece of the puzzle as well.
De Weerd: Well -- and I don't know, maybe Mollie might correct me, but I'll go ahead
and go out on a limb and say this. When we went to the automated collection system it
really did force people to look at what they were throwing away and in their regular trash
and looking at how better they can manage their waste with the commingled recycling
program and so I would imagine our commingled recycling program has increased in its
popularity. Steve, has it? So, we are, again, trying to look at what we can do on our
end to reduce that.
Mahaffy: Well, I think there are three stories here. One is we are building a plant in
Ada County. Two is we are I think an exciting younger company that's going to be
hiring a lot more people for both our manufacturing and we are committed to build most
of our components in Idaho and preferably the Treasure Valley. So, there are a number
of companies right now that are bidding on components. That's for both the fixed
platform and the mobile platform. I can tell you some of those companies are in
Meridian. So, I think besides just the plant, as we build plants around the world, you're
going to see economic benefit there. The last thing is you have all seen a lot of the
wind coming on line, okay? One of the challenges of wind, as Idaho Power will tell you,
is it's uncontrollable, unshapable power. It's pure energy. So, when the wind blows you
have power, when it doesn't you don't. One of the nice things about base load biomass
like we have, is we are the match against wind. Okay? We sort of smooth that out, so
it's a combination of wind variable biomass base load let's them better plan the grid and
so that's one of the things that's becoming so popular about our technology is we flatten
that out and --
De Weerd: Even the solar end, too.
Mahaffy: Right. Solar same thing. Right.
De Weerd: Sun doesn't always shine.
Meridian City Council Workshop Meeting
February 8, 2011
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Mahaffy: That's right. But the waste comes in.
De Weerd: Yeah. Maybe that's unfortunate.
Mahaffy: We thank you for the opportunity to present tonight.
De Weerd: Council, any other questions?
Bird: It's a great concept.
De Weerd: Mollie.
Mangerich: I guess just a closing comment. Excuse me. Again, thank you for coming
and I'm hoping that in the future that we will be invited to open meetings as part of a
stakeholder group towards this technology where waste goes for our rate payers and
our citizens and that those can all be opened up and we can have discussions about
this.
Ullman: Madam Chairman, it is our responsibility as Ada County Commissioners to run
the landfill. We certain welcome public participation, participation by the city, by your
SWAC group as well. I don't believe that we have done any of this in secret.
Everything that we have done we have made open to the public. Ultimately, the
decision with regard to what we do, how we operate the landfill, what we do with regard
to rates, we make those decisions and we are held accountable for those decisions.
But certainly welcome the input and the feedback. At anytime you are all welcome to
provide that.
De Weerd: Well -- and as we move forward with this we can get questions from SWAC
to yourselves and see, Commissioner, if we could get response and notification of the
public hearings. We will keep an eye on it and -- and I appreciate your time this evening
for sharing with us some very exciting news on many different fronts. Certainly
appreciate our SWAC members who are in the audience today as well and encourage
you to follow these people out and the answer -- offer any questions that you might
have as well. But thank you for being here.
Ullman: Thank you very much.
Mahaffy: Thank you very much
Item 6: Items Moved from Consent Agenda
De Weerd: Okay. There were no items moved from the Consent Agenda
Item 7: Department Reports
A. Public Works: Source Water Protection Update
Meridian City Council Workshop Meeting
February 8, 2011
Page 15 of 33
De Weerd: So, we will move to Item 7-A and turn this over to Kyle. So, what's his
name over there?
Radek: Madam Mayor, Council Members, tonight we would like to present some
information to you about source water protection. When we talk about source water thal
means the water that we use to supply our distribution system to serve our community.
The majority of the presentation and discussion tonight will be done by Ed Squires, who
has worked as a consulting hydro geologist for Meridian for several years and has
considerable knowledge and experience on the subject matter. Additionally, Rob
Whitney from the Idaho Department of Water Resources has joined us for a second
time. He visited us -- you may remember about, I don't know, four or five months ago
and he just -- he didn't have enough, he wants to come back and talk to the City Council
again, so we really appreciate him making himself available for this presentation,
though. Our agenda is briefly give an overview of what Meridian's water source is like.
Very simplified. We are going to talk about source water quality threats and protection
strategies for those threats, to mitigate those threats, and we are going to recommend a
course of action for Council and, then, we are going to open it up for discussion and
Council direction. Now, here is a simplified picture of what the -- what our source water
looks like, our aquifer in Meridian. If you take a look at the -- the first water level there,
what I have got labeled as the shallow aquifer, starts anywhere from, you know, one
hundred feet down to five feet down when you start digging a hole in the ground. We
have a lot of water around here. And, then, somewhere in the neighborhood of 400 to
maybe 600 feet you have a layer of blue clays that tend to separate the shallow aquifer
from the deep aquifer and the -- there are several sources of contaminants out there,
both natural and introduced. There is all kinds of things that people put on the ground
and different industries and there is natural contaminants as well and so -- and there is
natural contaminants in the aquifer. Most of the contaminants contributed by human
activity come from the surface and you can see in this diagram how some of those
contaminants might migrate through. Like, for example, if you take this -- let me get the
pen. If you take this source right here -- there we go. This source right here might
indicate that this contaminant is going to move through the aquifer and -- and intercept
the place where we have some sealed wells and since they are sealed wells that
contaminant is going to move past those wells and continue on its path in the aquifer. It
could take years for this contaminant to ever reach a level of where the well extracts
water from the aquifer or it could never reach that level. On the other hand, we have
another path that is shown here where this contaminant moved down into the aquifer
over to what we have labeled as an unsealed well and the unsealed well is a well where
the casing -- the area between the casing and the native soils have not been -- has not
been sealed, so there is a conduit for the contaminant to move up and/or down through
the aquifer and can move -- and can take that years or possible -- possibly the
contaminant wouldn't have gotten there, but it could take years and make that days or
weeks to get down to places where -- where it naturally wouldn't get to and we feel like
this is the -- one of the main -- or the main threats to our source of water quality. And
poor well construction is -- is the main threat. Poor city well construction would be one
threat, but we -- we don't build city wells that are unsealed. So, we are mainly
concerned with poor private well construction as the major threat to our water quality.
Meridian City Council Workshop Meeting
February 8, 2011
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And with that I'm going to leave this slide up in case Ed has any -- any additional
comments on this slide or wants to correct something I have said, but I'm going to leave
-- I'm going to open it up to Ed to continue about the threats, how we have -- how we
have discovered and documented those threats in our city and what our options to deal
with those threats are.
De Weerd: Hi, Ed.
Squires: Hi, there. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Thanks for having me out.
I'm glad Kyle left this slide up here, because I don't want to take credit for that dinosaur I
see down there. Though we do find mammoth remains in some of the sands of the
Boise foothills, so it's kind of interesting. I have been instructed to be very brief. I will.
About 1992 I started working for the city and we drilled our first test well, Well No. 14,
and now test wells have become a standard and what we have discovered in drilling all
these test wells is that we find that the -- this is the Well 28 test well, our most recent
test well, drilled to 1,300 feet, by the way. What we find is the aquifer consists of
alternating layers of clay and sand. Pretty much. There is some gravel layers in there
and -- but for the most part it's alternating layers and we find when we drill these test
wells -- and the motivation behind drilling the test wells was really to -- because we
wanted to pick the best water quality in the whole depth of the section that we could get,
so that we didn't have to treat water, that we got the best possible quality that the drilled
section has to offer and the way we did that is we would drill a single bore and, then, we
would put a series of small two inch tube wells, just like a big well, only they are just two
inches, with a completion screen at various depths of the aquifer. And so this is a
cross-sectional diagram of Well No. 20 test well, drilled out at the Ustick reservoir site
and the lithology that we drilled, the rocks that we drilled, is over on the left, from zero to
1,000 feet and you can see the sands represented and the clays represented. That's
the alternating geologic section that we find underneath the City of Meridian, which, as a
point of interest, has some of the most prolific aquifers in this entire valley by far. And
no need to pay much attention, really, to these fancy squiggly lines, the geophysical
logs, but you can see pretty easily that they correspond to the sands and the clays and
that's how we pick the zones to test. But if you look now on the right you will see that
there is four zones that we tested in this section and now we have two very productive
wells in zone one and two, both of them capable of 2,000 gallons a minute at the Ustick
reservoir site and we have two untapped reservoirs down below. What we learned from
this testing -- and isolating each of these individual layers, is that the -- each aquifer --
each sub aquifer level has a different pressure head and each aquifer has a different
water chemistry and, for example, Well 19 -- Well 19, the supply well -- and it's only
maybe 50 feet from the test well, it has water level -- it had when we drilled it of 40 feet
above ground. If you put it in a pipe, which we did, the water level would stand in that
well 40 feet above ground and it would flow 1,500 gallons a minute just out of the casing
if it was cut off at ground level. Well, the nearby test well only has an above ground
head of about six feet above ground level and it's completed shallower. So, that gives
you an idea of the stark differences in pressure that are in these aquifers underneath
the ground. Now, if we -- and you will see in this diagram that the green zones on the
left -- on the right there, that's the clays that we put between the zones in the test that
Meridian City Council Workshop Meeting
February 8, 2011
Page 17 of 33
match the clays that are in the natural formations, so that we don't commingle those
heads and so that we don't commingle those chemistries, because if we were to do that
they would certainly move between each other, because of the different pressures that
they have. So, that was in an open bore hole or in a well that was -- that was
completed, water would move in one zone, up the well, and out into another zone. And
in the case of Well 19, that could be an exchange of several hundred to a thousand
gallons per minute of every second of every day. This is pretty significant. This is a
view of each of those tube wells that we talked about we develop and air lift and we
clean them up just like a regular well until they are all clear and they are sand free and,
then, we sample them for water chemistry and water -- and head. But we also have
these wells as a long-term asset for the long-term monitoring for the city and retesting
the aquifer chemistry over time. This is a picture of the newly completed well head at
Meridian Test Well No. 28, which we put six zones -- six separate zones in that and, by
the way, completed the -- the new supply well, it's just ready -- on the verge of coming
online into the best aquifer quality of the whole 1,300 foot section. And there it is in its
secure lockable instrument shelter for the long term. Well, back in 1992 we used drill
and drive methods to -- cable tool, air rotary, et cetera, to drill wells. These are the old
percussion wells that, basically, just beat a hole into the ground and beat a casing into
the ground and we tried like the dickens -- this is actually Well No. 14. The city looked a
lot different in 1992. But we tried really hard to find a way to seal those types of wells
and we just couldn't do it and also before 1992 the wells were pretty much drilled or
driven and the records that we got from the drilling exercises were very poor and
uneven and incomplete. Now we get very good technical records of the drilled geologic
section. Another type of well that used to be drilled in this area and many of the older
city wells are drilled this way, is a reverse rotary well and this -- this is across-sectional
diagram of such a well and I think I can do something here -- this is the casing of the
well, of course. Here is the water level in the well. The pumping water level. This is
where the water level stands when it's not pumping. So, I believe this is -- this is a 16
inch casing -- 16 inch diameter casing and a 28 inch diameter hole. So, it's a big 28
inch round whole drilled in the earth and, then, a 16 inch casing put in the middle of it.
So, that means that 16 or 28 minus 16 is -- you have a six inch annular space all around
the well if it's centralized and in those days that annular space got filled with gravel, just
rounded, clean, washed gravel. And so now that we know that these aquifers are under
differing pressure head and different chemistry, we know that in these types of well
construction that water was exchanging all the time and shallow contaminated
groundwater could move in, as Kyle's slide showed, and move down that and out into
the aquifers that we rely upon for municipal supply. The department doesn't allow wells
to be drilled like this anymore, thank heavens, but they are still out there. The old ones
are out there and will be around with us for some time. And another aspect of well
construction is, you know, the city's wells since about 2001 have all been plastic cased
wells, plastic and stainless steel, which are noncorrodible, but we have found that the
groundwater conditions under the Treasure Valley are quite corrosive and in the upper
right-hand photo here at 709 feet below ground that casing is completely rotted out and
corroded through and as I'm sure some of you are aware, we have had to rebuild some
of the city's old wells, including Well No. 14, that corroded out like this after only nine
years in the ground. I mean -- and that's not just -- not acceptable. We believe the
Meridian City Council Workshop Meeting
February 8, 2011
Page 18 of 33
wells that we are building nowadays are hundred year wells. And we found that using
mild steel between the stainless steel causes the mild steel to also -- or the -- to corrode
out prematurely, because of galvanic corrosion of dissimilar metals. This is a schematic
of the type of well that the city drills nowadays and we have, again, the casing and we
have a drilled hole, not as big as I had pointed out previously, but the real significant
feature about -- in terms of protection of the resource in the city's new wells is what I call
of full depth surface seal and that means that the. annular space between the drilled
hole and the casing is completely filled from ground level all the way down to the top of
the completion aquifer with a Bentonite or cement based seal and the advantage of that
is that whatever the confining layers are in the lithology, whether it's a buried soil
horizon, a cemented layer, a fine sand or a clay, we cover every possible thing that
separates -- that separates those layers and maintains the stratigraphic protection that
we have in the natural system. That's what we strive to do. And all the city's wells
since Well No. 15 have been completed in that fashion. Full depth surface seals. And
the city uses noncorrodible materials. On the left this of picture is the plastic casing.
The black metal is the centralizer to make sure it gets in the center of the hole so the
Bentonite seal and the cement seal goes all the way around it when it's in the ground
and on the right side we have the stainless steel well screens, that's where the water
gets to come in to the well, and it's also centralized, because it's enveloped with a
special sand, a filter sand that goes around it, like the seal goes around the upper
casing. And the water enters through these -- these wound screen wires. There is slots
between the wires and that's how the water gets into the well. Now, going back to these
drill and drive wells, which you must understand that 90 percent of wells that are getting
drilled in the City of Meridian are drill and drive domestic wells. They far exceed the
number of -- of municipal supply wells. By my last calculation I think there is just shy of
about 1,600 domestic drill and drive wells in the city's area of impact. That's a lot of
wells and they are all -- they all have 18 foot surface seals in them at the surface, which
doesn't even go through the shallow gravels that Kyle showed on his slide, which is
typically 60 feet thick in the City of Meridian. So, they are, essentially unsealed. And
this slide shows a well that we worked, a domestic well, and I will draw your attention to
the well construction again and as you look down there you will see that this annular
space is quite irregular and I measured that annular space, because -- I measured it
with a special caliper tool that we raise up and down the wells and that's the caliper log
right here on the left side of these squiggly lines. And so this is actually the shape of
the -- of the -- the drilled hole outside the casing that is an open conduit for
contaminants, shallow groundwater and surficial land use activities, to be able to move
down unsealed annular space and you can see, again, in the lithology that there is
plenty of clay that would naturally prevent the contaminants from moving down, but it
can move down as it moves along as in Kyle's slide, along the top of one of these clays
in the formation, it can, then, move directly down into the aquifer system we rely upon
through these unsealed spaces. Here is another domestic well that we worked on and
-- or we -- I won't say we worked on it, but we observed it and this well was drilled by
drill and drive cable tool technique and when the owner went to drill the water line to
connect -- to dig the ditch for the water line to connect to the well, he -- he discovered
this giant hole down there that was caused by the drilling that was not evident at the
Meridian City Council Workshop Meeting
February 8, 2011
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surface and we believe -- and this whole is much larger than this crazy guy who got
down in that hole would let on. I have one photo of --
De Weerd: That's not you, is it?
Squires: No. -- all you can see is his feet sticking out and he's off somewhere in the
void. But I threw this slide in here, because right underneath this building, the old
creamery, we abandoned -- we discovered and abandoned four old municipal supply
wells that I'm sure you heard about and probably lamented, based on the amount of
money it took to abandon those wells and this was one of the smaller ones probably
one of the original ones, it was just a little four inch casing, and we -- you can calculate
very easily the amount of grout that would just filled that casing and I think in this case it
was somewhere in the amount of one cubic yard of space. But we pumped almost ten
cubic yards into the well to seal it and that's -- here is the casing, okay? This line here.
These red marks are where we perforated the casing, we poked holes in it, so that
when we filled it full of grout and pressurized it, the grout would come outside and fill
any voids and after we pumped in ten times the volume of the casing, the grout squirted
out at the top. So, it's a testimony to how -- how these unsealed wells remain as
legacies in the ground. This is one of the larger wells. It took a hundred yards of grout
and the amount of grout to fill the casing was just a tenth of that. Less than ten yards.
mean -- yeah. Less than ten yards and we pumped a hundred yards of grout down to
fill the voids in this well. So, it is a -- it is a serious problem. It's fortunate that of those
1,600 wells that I mentioned in the city, they are still pretty shallow. You know, 1,500 of
them are probably less than 200 feet. That's a good thing. But our fear is that as these
contamination issues that Kyle talked about, both anthropogenic and the naturally
occurring stuff, as those become understood that will drive the depth of these wells
deeper and that will bring the contamination that they are in now downward into the
aquifers that we rely upon.
De Weerd: And don't we have a pollution cloud that's coming from west Boise slowly
migrating this way? Is that Perc?
Squires: Yes. There is a -- a company that had -- a chemical company that's now
under -- that was at the site that is now the Westpark Mall, jettison some
Perchloroethylene, which was a solvent, back in the '80s when they were moving their
tanks and it was just an ignorant dump. They wanted to move the tank and so they
pumped it out on the ground and that plume now is over three and a half miles long in
the subsurface and it is knocking on Meridian's door. And it's interesting that you bring
that up, because that is one of the first places -- I think it's maybe the second only in the
state where an area of drilling concern was declared by the Department of Water
Resources, so that any wells that get drilled in that area have special construction
requirements, so that they don't propagate the Perchloroethylene into the deeper
system and, you know, people have to hook up to municipal supplies, rather than drill
wells and the responsible party has to abandon the existing wells properly, et cetera, et
cetera. But we also -- another example that I would use is the Meridian Heights
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February 8, 2011
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Subdivision. It's a 300 home subdivision within the city's area of impact; it's out on --
nearthe intersection --
De Weerd: We know where it is.
Squires: -- of Stoddard and -- you know where it is.
De Weerd: Yes, we do.
Squires: And, you know, they had -- were signed into a consent order, because they
had radionuclide's in their -- elevated concentrations of radionuclides in their wells that
were three times the NCL. Not a little bit over, but three times the NCL for uranium is
30 micrograms per liter and they had 90. It was almost minable for production. And
what I discovered in working on that -- that project was that there are 300 of these
domestic wells that we have been talking about right in the vicinity around that
subdivision and all those wells are completed to the same depth. So, all those domestic
wells are also drinking the radionuclide water, but there is no regulations on those wells.
They are not tested, because they are not a public drinking water supply. And I think
that as it becomes known that those contaminant plumes are out there, a young family
is not going to want to continue to have their water -- you know, drinking that kind of
water, so they are going to drill another well down -- or deepen that well down and if it's
an unsealed well that can allow those -- that contaminated water to move down to
another level and that's what we are more concerned about for the future. The options
that we have distilled this down to are -- and let me -- let me also say that on behalf of
the city I attended almost -- I think it went on almost two years -- negotiated rule making
with the Department of Water Resources and it wasn't the first one that we have been
through. Rob and I, I think have been through three of those in our careers and the
rules were changed recently. They went into effect in July of 2010 and there wasn't a
great improvement I will say in those rules. But there are -- you must remember that
they are a set of rules that are designed to be a blanket rule for the entire state and
there are so many different hydro geologic settings in our state that you can't really get
down to the Witty-gritty for each one. For example, if you drill a well in Mountain Home
you will drill a thousand basalt flow rocks that are completely different and the water
levels may be 500 feet below ground. If you drill a well in the City of Meridian you're
likely to have those high artesian pressures that we are talking about and we are drilling
only sediments. So, the rules are different. They need to be more specialized and as
we went through the drilling rules negotiations, even the drillers brought up the idea
that, okay, let's -- let's leave that out of this plan, let's leave that out of this set of rules
and, then, we can address those on a case-by-case basis for various hydro geologic
settings and I think that's what we are suggesting here in Meridian. I personally believe
that the general set of rules is not adequate to protect the city's water supplies and so
how do you -- how do you do that, how do you protect yourself, how do you protect the
city's water supply and to create a more stringent set of rules and one way would be to
create an ordinance and, you know, that's something that's within the city's power to do,
but the Department of Water Resources, which has primacy over all things water in the
state and that's well described in the statutes, they have the mechanism, but just -- this
Meridian City Council Workshop Meeting
February 8, 2011
Page 21 of 33
area of drilling concern that you asked about that's the Perc plume in west Boise. They
have the ability and the authority certainly to create this area of drilling concern that has
it's own special requirements and extra considerations for well construction and I think
because of the precedent you set on the city's doorstep in the Westpark area, that for
the very same reasons, to prevent migration of contaminants across the geologic
section to prevent wastage of heads and pressures, that that area of drilling concern
could be expanded or built upon. It sort of sets a precedent I think and clearly we have
these other anthropogenic plumes of radiology, arsenic, and we don't want to mix those
around, because it makes it hard for us to figure it out later when we pump it. I won't get
too windy about this, but when we were working on the Meridian Heights system, they
had one well that didn't have radiology in it. All three wells were the same depth, but
one didn't have radiology. Why? Because it was a well they didn't use and when it was
sitting idle water from the shallow aquifer moved into that and moved down and pushed
the radionuclide water aside. So, when they tested it they turned it on for a few minutes
and tested it, they didn't get any radiology, but we put a pump in it and pumped it for a
week and it had 90 micrograms per liter of uranium. It definitely happens. I think you --
you have read these in your pre -- in the stuff that Kyle passed out to you previously.
Our -- my recommendation -- and I think the recommendation of the Public Works as
well, is that we think that the city should partner with the Department of Water
Resources and approach the Department of Water Resources with the studies that the
city's been engaged in since 1992, these hydro geologic framework studies, and they
are really starting to come to fruition now in the last few years and that is the science
that the -- we have met with the director of the Department of Water Resources, these
things have to be supported with science, you have to show that there is a threat, a
need, et cetera, and it has to be based in science. Well, the city has gone 90 percent
toward that. We are very close to having the studies that can show the need for this
and present it to the Department of Water Resources. The department has indicated
that it will consider such an application and if the department agrees with the threat and
the danger and the solution, then, they will enact that. I think that having gone through
the drilling rules -- negotiated rule making for the city, I have observed firsthand the
opposition to these kinds of things by the drilling community and others and I think that
the city will lay itself open for a great deal of controversy, perhaps lawsuits, and I also
think that the department has the ability to enforce already. They have the
enforcement, they have the authority to be able to enforce such a new set of drilling
rules and the city really doesn't and I believe that the drilling community will challenge
that authority. So, my recommendation is to pursue the -- pursue the area of drilling
concern idea, contemporaneously -- I mean with developing its own ordinance. I mean
the city still needs to develop its own set of specific drilling rules that apply to its hydro
geologic environment. Now, that is pretty well done. We have been working on that for
a couple years now and we have a very strong first draft -- I won't even call it a first
draft, it's been an iterative process and it's gone back and forth between my office and
the Public Works office and it's pretty well there, but this enables the department to
have a set of rules and if the area of drilling concern can be enacted, then, when
somebody wants to drill a well in the City of Meridian a flag goes up at the department
and they are now able to say, okay, you must drill a well this way. And as a closing
comment, I would say that the city will spend easily tens of thousands of dollars on each
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February 8, 2011
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individual well to seal it in the fashion that I described, but 50 feet away an air rotary
domestic well can be drilled to the same depth as the supply well with very little seal in it
and I think that is not right. So, certainly stand for any questions.
Radek: And I'm going to interrupt you for a second, even though you are done. I would
like to go back -- I would like to go back, because I think it is important to see the one
slide that you -- that you assumed that City Council had seen. I'm not so sure, so I just
want to go over that. We wanted to talk about the pros and cons of the city ordinance
option here and we feel like the pros are -- Ed, I was already there.
Squires: Oh, you were already there. Okay.
Radek: Okay. The pros are that it would be quick, something that we know how to do,
we know how to write ordinances and we can enact it quickly and we can put what we
want in it. We feel like the cons to it are that it has a potential conflict with state law and
the Idaho Department of Water Resources as the prime agency for administering this
kind of well construction in Idaho. We have to think about enforcing the rules and
administering the rules. We don't have the in-house expertise that it would take to, for
example, review permits and go out and inspect well construction, so we'd have to --
we'd have to consider those costs. One of the biggest limitations, I believe, is that the
jurisdiction of a city ordinance would be limited to city limits and as Ed said, there is
maybe 1,600 domestic wells in the City of Meridian impact area, but the wells that are
being drilled, with the exception of maybe one a year, they are going to be drilled in the
county and that would be in areas that Meridian is concerned about, but not necessarily
in the City of Meridian, and the drilling community is likely to -- as Ed indicated, to react
negatively to this kind of an ordinance. And just in brief, the area of drilling concern
pros were that there would be no apparent conflict with the primacy of IDWR state law.
They do have the authority to do it. It would apply to areas based on scientific --
scientific facts and data that we would show that Meridian has a reasonable concern
about wells drilled in this area. So, it would not be limited to city limits, it would extend
to an area that makes sense scientifically and there would be no enforcement cost to
the city. The cons -- essentially, the only con that we have listed is that it would take
more time to get that done and as Ed indicated, we have already done significant
studies to kind of prepare us for that kind of a petition. So, with that I would like to open
it for discussion and just remind City Council that we do have Rob Whitney here from
IDWR. If we don't have any questions for him, I will probably ask him to come up
anyway just to -- just so he didn't make this trip for nothing. And I will turn it over to City
Council at this point.
De Weerd: Rob, would you care to make any comment? Could you, please, make
comment, so we make your time worthwhile. We appreciate that you're here to listen to
the presentation and also to share any of your impressions and thoughts with us.
Whitney: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, thank you for having me. That's a
tough act to follow. I have worked with Mr. Squires for 20 some years and we have kind
of grown to know well construction and the different issues that he has explained to you
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February 8, 2011
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briefly tonight, but, actually, in great detail. I applaud his presentation. I guess I didn't --
Ididn't come tonight prepared to present anything specific. I can tell you that what was
presented and what I saw I completely agree with that, having the firsthand field
experience. While I don't personally and the department doesn't posses the kind of
data that Mr. Squires and the city have gathered over lots of years of verification
through geophysical methods and documentation of these things, I spend most of my
time out in the field trying to make sure that these kinds of things don't occur, at least
within the scope of what our well construction standards say. One thing I might mention
-- and Ed alluded to the fact that we did have approved and implemented new well
construction standards that intend to prohibit the commingling and mixing of waters that
was suggested on some of these pictures. The biggest challenge for us as regulators
or myself -- there is only four of us through the whole state that oversee well
construction, so we are spread pretty thin, and a lot of different hydro geologic settings
that we have to keep track of and Ed mentioned the -- the issue of a blanket rule. We
did what we could with these standards in order to get a better standard approved that
includes different hydro geologic settings in it. In other words, there are different
requirements for different subsurface conditions, however, you can't possibly in one rule
book cover every specific geologic setting. So, we have to group them into more
general categories. Consolidated formations, unconsolidated sedimentary formations,
that we can deal with and I won't disagree with Mr. Squires' argument about these
sealed wells and the best way to insure the highest level of protection and we achieve
this -- gosh, more than 90 percent of the time, if not a hundred percent of the time, in
the larger diameter wells that are drilled with an open hole method where you can place
a casing, a filter pack across from the production zone and, then, seal that back to land
surface. All of the questions that -- that I would ask we -- our rules require placement of
seals across from or through these confining layers to prevent the mixture of waters of
unlike temperature, pressure, and quality. What we depend on is the well drillers'
reports and Ed showed you an example of a well driller's report that was -- it seemed
like it was over 400 feet, maybe 500 feet deep and had three or four entries. Well, that's
not a whole lot of information, but that's how we base our decisions, does that well
comply with the standards based on that geology that is reported to us. When you run
geophysical logs in a test whole you can verify that information and, obviously, we can't
do that on every domestic well, you know, the costs would be too great. So, I am
dependent, as the regulator, on the information I have in the form of well drillers' reports,
what I know from having been in the field in specific areas and if I'm not physically on
the drill rig watching the well constructed, which I can't be on every -- every well, I'm at a
disadvantage to determine whether or not that well meets the standard that's required,
because that information is subject to the interpretation by the drilling contractor and the
fact that they know what's required in the rules, so what we -- we potentially can end up
with is a situation where the well log is tailored to the requirements, rather than the well
being tailored to the actual conditions. That being said, this notion of full depth seals --
if we get an inaccurate report and we have a well that has a full depth seal from the
aquifer, the target zone, back to the surface, if the information we get from that target
zone back to the surface is inaccurate, it doesn't matter, because it's sealed. The step
we can take to go a step further in places where we determine it's necessary or the
director does to implement more stringent standards, this more positive type of
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February 8, 2011
Page 24 of 33
construction, more easily verifiable that it is completely protected can be implemented
through that area of drilling concern process, which to some extent we have done with
the area of drilling concern with the Town Square Mall Perc plume. Do you have any
questions for me or --
De Weerd: Council? Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor. Rob, thank you coming tonight. Appreciate it. You said
something there that kind of made me want to follow the train of thought a little bit more.
So, the current standards for well drilling right now -- your thinking is that 90 percent of
those wells are sealed, it's -- and it would prevent the contaminations from migrating,
but your concern is the fact that you're relying on the well drillers to report that they did it
right or what they found was correct and you guys just don't have the resources to verify
everything. Did I understand that correctly?
Whitney: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, when I alluded to 90 percent of -- or
better of the municipal wells, irrigation wells, larger scale wells that are drilled with what
would refer to as open hole drilling techniques, rather than drilling and drive
techniques, which are advancing casing with the drilling process, the beauty for me as a
regulator in these open hole techniques is even if the driller is as honest as the day is
long, which most of them are, if they miss something in the process, which is -- maybe
didn't seem significant, but what we think very small lenses of confinement can be
significant in certain cases, little lenses like that that might not even be noticed in some
of the drilling processes, including an open hole technique, short of running geophysics
and, you know, that gives some verification to the sampling that was done during the
drilling process, if that well is sealed from the source to the surface, if you miss
something it's covered with seal. So, the majority of the municipal wells and your wells
-- at least in my area, this concept of filter packing them from the source to the surface,
which used to occur, it doesn't anymore. So, we have much more positive results,
verifiable results from these open hole drilling methods in that we seal everything we
are not going to use, so there is no questions.
Hoaglun: So, Madam Mayor, just to be sure, then, the drill and drive is the one that
you're concerned about the most, because that -- that technique is different and that's --
and that's more household wells?
Whitney: That's correct. Madam Mayor and Members of the Council. The standard
has been speed and volume and these air rotary and the cable tool methods, while they
are similar, they, in general, don't employ -- well, they can be very destructive if the
person isn't paying attention to the sub surface, as you saw this big crater several feet
below the ground, well, that can occur all the way down if you -- and with -- with their
rotary construction which is tailored to -- you know, there are years when I know
particular -- one drilling company in this valley may drill upwards of 200 of those wells in
a year, so multiply that by 30 companies, you know, that's a lot of wells and our
standards ask them to place seals across from confining layers that they penetrate
through that drilling process. One of the things that I have discovered and -- from being
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February 8, 2011
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out on these sites is if the operator of that equipment isn't using some finesse as he's
drilling, techniques that will disturb those confining layers, some of them are very lens
like and thin, maybe one or two feet, but they still could be protective, they tend to get
beat up pretty badly or even destroyed unrepairably in those types of drilling processes.
As they mine the sand below, those clay layers collapse. So, once that's done the
damage is kind of done. What we are requiring them to do is to place seals across from
those layers. Unfortunately, when we promulgated these new rules, one of the things
we were told to stay out of is the drillers' business on how to do the job, we were
supposed to say here is the rules, here is how you need to build the well, but short of
dictating the processes that they have to use in order to do that, so -- so the rules do
require seals at each confining layer or a full depth seal. The problem is in -- it's not like
a building inspector that can see every nail that got driven into a stud where it requires,
you know, so many nails per joist hanger that you can inspect. All this stuff is done
below the ground and so, once again, the beauty of what Mr. Squires talked about in full
depth seals is it takes a lot of the questions out of -- is it right and is it protective.
Hoaglun: Okay. One other question, Madam Mayor. Rob -- and I don't know if you can
answer this, but up there on the area of drilling concern, it would be determined on the
-- how big of a threat -- the science and how big of a threat and my question was going
to be -- and this might be, Ed, for you, but we know in the one area of Meridian we have
radionuclides, so that would be an area of drilling concern, because of that migration,
but yet maybe in another part of town we don't have any threats that are known and all
the layers are good. Does that area of drilling concern -- can we do a blanket one or is
it only where there are actually verifiable threats based on the science? How does that
work?
Whitney: Madam Mayor and Council Members, I -- I think there are a multitude of areas
around the Treasure Valley where there are different constituents sub surface that are
undesirable from nitrates to uranium, to arsenic, pesticides, herbicides, that kind of stuff
that's showing up in nitrate, nitrites, you know. So, I think the more data that we get if --
obviously, hydrogeology and groundwater resources don't recognize political
boundaries and Ed alluded to that fact, if you establish a city ordinance, well, that's a
political boundary when, really, the interest in is the hydrogeology. So, I believe that's
just dependent on how much and what type of information we can get and if those --
because there may be an area that the groundwater quality is great. Well, that doesn't
necessarily mean that that same standard shouldn't be implemented there as well to
keep it that way. So, I think in having visited with the director today about the process --
and Ijust wanted to feel him out where he was at at the time about an area of drilling
concern and, obviously, what he can do -- the authorities he has to establish this area of
drilling concern by the state law, will have to be supported with information and data that
allows us to establish a boundary based on hydrogeology and so I think that -- that
question just depends on how much information we can get.
Hoaglun: And, Madam Mayor, I hope you don't mind, I have got one more question,
but, hopefully, it's my last one and this has to do with well abandonment. Heard the
explanation what needs to be done and what was done with wells here. My thinking on
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February S, 2011
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it is, well, if you're going to park -- put a building over it or a parking lot, isn't the well
capped? Does that work? If this -- the creamery well that he talked about, we filled it
with grout, but yet if you're putting a building on it and there is not going to be anything
allowed -- I mean this is how my simple mind works -- well, if you're going to put a
building over it isn't it capped? Do you have to fill it with grout?
Whitney: Madam Mayor, Council Members, that's a good question, but the -- it's easy
to take care of surface impacts along side that well. Pave right over the top and put a
little concrete cap or weld a plate on it and you have taken care of that. Those are --
yeah. Those are the easy things. But what's occurring on the sub surface -- or we
suspect is occurring -- in certain cases we know and Mr. Squires, obviously, has -- he's
put his whole career into this and I have followed that myself. One thing I can tell you
about these recently adopted rules is they have gone much further in describing what is
required for abandonment of wells and it, basically, suggests that if -- if a well wasn't
sealed in the first place -- in other words, there isn't a seal on the outside of the casing
as it exists now, as far as we can determine, then, when it is abandoned, which we have
changed that term to decommission, those seals have to be put in place after the fact.
The beauty of a well that's sealed full depth today, abandonment of that well is as
simple as filling it with dry Bentonite chips and putting a cap over it. So, pay me now,
pay me later on the well abandonment.
De Weerd: Any other questions? Thank you for being with us.
Whitney: Thank you.
Radek: Madam Mayor, Council, just a reminder, we are asking for some direction from
Council on whether to proceed with a stand alone ordinance or proceed with application
for area of drilling concern or some combination of those options.
De Weerd: I don't think there is a choice. I think a city ordinance would not cover what
we need, from the sounds of it. Council?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I think we need to continue the effort to identify the science that we need to
move forward with the agency.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor, I agree with Councilman Rountree's assessment.
De Weerd: Thank you. Appreciate the level of detail and that we still were able to
follow you, Ed. You have trained us well. But I think, you know, the quick fix is not
going to be the right fix. It needs to be greater than that and you -- you have seen how
the plume from the Town Square area has continued to move and I think we need to be
Meridian City Council Workshop Meeting
February 8, 2011
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concerned, so -- Ed, any -- you would need to make it on the record. There is no final
comment in this room.
Squires: Ed Squires again. I just want to say that I think it's not too late to do this. We
have a chance to keep the aquifer from becoming contaminated because of the
shallowness of the existing wells. So, it's not too late to make this happen and the city
is also very lucky in the number of wells that it has, because I know that just in a nine
square mile area of the city of Eagle that grew up, essentially, without a municipal
supply, there is over 3,000 of these domestic wells.
De Weerd: I think our elected officials and Public Works people before us protected the
city quite well. Okay. So, we know the direction we are going; right?
Radek: Madam Mayor, thank you very much.
B. Public Works: Discussion on Backflow Testing Program
De Weerd: Thank you. Rob and Ed, we won't make you stay. Mr. Dees.
Dees: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I'll try to make this not quite a deep as
that last one was. That's a joke. Come on. It's late. I would like to introduce someone
to you. He is our new water superintendent. It's Dennis Teller. Dennis, where are you
at?
De Weerd: Welcome, Dennis, we appreciate you being here.
Dees: Comes to us from Arizona and we are awfully glad he's here, because maybe I
can not do this anymore for awhile. I don't know. In any case --
De Weerd: I don't know. I think you're having too much fun, Rich.
Dees: Too much fun. Uh-huh. Thank you. This is an update on the backflow or
disconnect cycle, particularly backflow notices that we -- you passed on the 21st of
December. We are trying to proceed in a methodical way to make sure we do the
proper notifications and get the word out to all those who have to have the word gotten
to, if you will. And we also want to make sure that we do it properly, so that we don't --
we don't miss any steps and can get the thing done smartly. There is a packet that you
have in front of you there someplace and it's several sheets of paper and I will refer to a
few of those pages as we go along. So far we have sent out a letter to our testers and
we have told them what we are up to. And we have also asked them to respond.
These are the testers that we know about. We have asked them to respond by filling
out a form and also to tell us -- in that form to tell us how much they are going to charge
for their services. We received a majority of those back. Some did not reply. What we
have also done is on the 14th of this month we are going to send a letter to all of our
known backflow assembly customers, letting them know what's happening, so that they
can be informed citizens as well. And, then, finally, we are going to send out the first
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February 8, 2011
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letters of tests due under the new program. So, we kind of have a date of the 1st of
March is when we are going to start off our new program, as it will. Before, then, we are
onto the old program. That means that any tests that were done up until the 1st of
March we will go ahead and honor the commitments that we made prior to the -- prior to
the change in December. We needed time -- actually, the reason we did that is
because we needed time to notify everybody, as I mentioned. Our testing program, if
you will look at the long sheet of paper that kind of looks like this. Okay? Our testing
program is about 75 days long. Or not testing program, our testing cycle. Every testing
cycle has about that many days in it, but just imagine this thing moving down through
the year, okay? So, we will start it out the first of the month. So, we said 1/1. That's
when we will send notices to -- to all the customers that are due on that particular
month. In this case we will say March 1st. So, we send them notices and we give them
30 days to get their systems tested. Now, they can use anybody they want who is a
licensed tester in the state. They can also refer to the list that we are going to send
them of testers that we have had -- we have accumulated and we are going to show
them some representative prices. The idea is that the customer calls one of these folks,
they come out, they test their backflow assembly device and the tester, then, sends us
evidence that that device has had the test and it passed and, then, we give them a ten
dollar rebate on their water bill. So, that's kind of what the program is in a nutshell. The
problem comes up what happens if they don't do that or what happens if they miss the
test. That's what the rest of the -- rest of the cycle was about. At the end of the first 30
days if we haven't received a notice from a tester that the backflow assembly has been
tested on a particular customer's home, we will give them about 15 days, because
maybe the tester didn't send in the batch that month or something like that or that day
and, then, on the 15th of the month past the day, that's where the 2/15 there in the -- on
the chart, we are going to send them a final notice saying we haven't received your test,
you need to contact your tester and, please, let us know what you're on about. This is
the last letter that they are going to get before we will turn their water off and they will be
notified at that time if we don't receive a test their water will be shut off and we are going
to give them a date certain when that's going to happen. We, then, kind of wait a little
while and you see where it says 3/1, well, at that point we should have all the
information back from any tester that would have run out -- if the homeowner called and
says, oh, please, hurry, Meridian is going to shut my water off, come and test my
backflow assembly. So, we give them that length of time to send that information in. If
we haven't received that information by -- in this case 3/1, 15 days later we will
terminate their water service. That's kind of the cycle that will happen each and every
month -- or each and every month is when it -- when it will happen. So, we are going to
start our first one the 1st of March. By April -- by -- let's see. March -- 75 days later we
will, then, be turning our first folks off if they haven't had their systems tested. We
intend to give them a ten dollar rebate if they have had it done within the -- within the
period of time that we allot them. If they haven't we won't give them a rebate. So, if we
-- if they are outside the thing and we have to turn their water off and, then, come back
and turn it back on again, we are not going to give them a ten dollar rebate, rather, we
are going to -- we are going to charge them for a turn off fee to reconnect them. The
customers will be eligible for the ten dollar credit, as I said, if they submit their report
prior to the final date for submission of the test. The initial letters for the customer
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February 8, 2011
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providing the test date are in your packet. We have sent you sample letters, so that you
can see what they look like. The first letter just says, hey, you're due. Please contact a
tester of your choice. Attached is a list of testers. Now, there is a couple of ways we
can do that tester list. One way we have done it is -- in the case that you had before
you is we have listed the prices that they gave us and we listed it by the lowest to the
highest of single -- of folks who provided us as a single price. The next group are the
folks who provided us multiple prices, like this one individual that said I will go from 18
dollars to 150 bucks. So, that's in the next group. The third group are those folks who
didn't give us a price. So, that's how we have arranged the list. Now, we can arrange
the list any way we'd like. That just seems like it was a logical way for us. We could
arrange it by group. For example, these testers offer a test somewhere between 25 and
40 bucks and, then, group them that way. That's sort of a choice that we have -- we can
make. Again, the other letter that you have in your packet is the letter we will send as a
final notice. It says, okay, indeed, it's time to shut your water off if you don't comply with
the -- with the -- with the testing requirements and this is the date that will happen if we
don't receive something from you. If you have, call us, we will work it out. So, we have
left them a lot of options. And that's pretty much the program in a nutshell. It's -- also
includes in that first letter we will send to the customers that we have in our system
there will be a flyer that will describe the backflow program in general and why backflow
is important. The other thing that we are going to do is send that same flyer in all the
bills that you get for every customer in the city, so they will understand what the water --
what the backflow program is about. So, those are some of the education pieces we
will be doing and, finally, we are going to do one of the little TV spots that were on the
web showing people what a backflow assembly is. We have discovered that some
people don't even know what they look like and so we are going to educate them by
showing a picture of the things and to look for in their backyard or where ever they may
be and this is the requirements for it. With that that brings you, I think, up to date on
what we -- what we are planning on doing. We have some 400 letters that are going to
go out for the March and April test and we are posed to do that. Those letters are
before you, if there is any final changes you would like to make we can certainly do
those, and apart from that we are on the road. Do you have any questions for me,
Ma'am?
De Weerd: Thank you, Rich. Questions from Council?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: My preference would be not to show the prices. I don't know that we
necessarily need to be in the marketing for these testers. If they are licensed testers,
we give them a list of the licensed testers and let them shop at will or go to the one they
are familiar with.
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February 8, 2011
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De Weerd: I guess, Mr. Rountree, Iwill -- we had some people taking advantage of
pricing and certainly by giving just a ten dollar credit it does kind of bring it back into --
it's probably more of a market rate. But most of the testers stepped forward and weren't
concerned with sharing what their -- the cost of their testing was.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I see nothing wrong with putting the price out there myself. I think it's -- I mean it's
no knowledge -- I have a feeling that people are going to use the same ones they have
used through the year, regardless of the cost, you know, because they know where the
backflow is and everything about it. At least I would.
Dees: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, leave the prices? Take the prices out?
What would you like me to --
Rountree: The Mayor is the administrative voice.
Dees: In that case, the prices will remain in.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor, just to throw my two cents in. You guys have hashed this out
and worked through it and gone back and forth on this and I think you have hit a good
middle ground on it, so if you want to do that, that's fine.
De Weerd: Council, any other comments about the process and moving forward? I
guess, Rich, the only question I would have is because our testers do know that there is
that looming deadline out there of March 1st, that you're going to have someone --
someone's unit being tested that is not due until this summer, so how are you
addressing that?
Dees: I'm sorry, I didn't understand your question. You mean someone who we don't
know that's atester or --
De Weerd: Well, no, let's say my address has a backflow device and I am not -- my
annual testing date is in July and I know about this program, because I read my water
bill and the letter that you had sent out and I decided I'm going to call one of these
testers, so they will -- the city will pay for my entire bill --
Dees: No.
De Weerd: -- instead of just ten dollars they will pay for it all, even though my test is not
due until July.
Dees: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, we, actually, had that happen already
and what we have done is we called all the testers and we have told them that as of the
Meridian City Council Workshop Meeting
February 8, 2011
Page 31 of 33
1st of March -- if your test is due after the 1st of March you're on the ten dollar rebate
program, if it's due before the 1st of March you will get -- you will get the rebate as it
was before we changed it. So, March 1st is sort of the deadline or the line in the sand.
If your test is not due -- it was due in February, we will pay the rebate as we always
have. If your test is due in June you're under the ten dollar rebate program, not the full
rebate program, no matter what happens. So, they have already been informed of that.
The testers have. And, then, the notification to the folks -- that's what they are going to
see when they get their letters.
De Weerd: Okay.
Bird: Already thought about that.
Dees: Are you in June -- no.
De Weerd: No, I don't have one. I don't have a backflow device.
Bird: Better check that out, Rich.
De Weerd: You can come out and look. I did in my last house. And Inever -- when I
lived in it I had it tested before the city started covering them, so it was all on my
expense.
Dees: We thank you.
De Weerd: Hey, protecting the city's water source. Any further comments or questions
from Council?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: I guess I would like to thank Mr. Teller for being here tonight and inheriting
this. We appreciate you coming on board. But I do want to assure -- can we get a
summary report in a year to see how this is going? I still -- just like Mr. Squires has
educated me on drill -- the drilling practices and why we should protect our source of
water, I have a pretty firm opinion still on the backflow devices and one of the reasons
the city went in the direction that we did, because there were concerns people wouldn't
do the backflow device testing and so I would just appreciate maybe coming back to
Council, talking about this process and give us assurance that we are still protecting our
source of water.
Dees: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I will be happy to do that. Perhaps
maybe asemi-annual report or an annual report just to you in a brief Council memo or
something like that, does that -- does that work?
Meridian City Council Workshop Meeting
February 8, 2011
Page 32 of 33
De Weerd: Well, I think you will probably need to give some kind of summary, because
as we set that budget line item we will be needing to know some recommendations in
moving forward.
Dees: Or perhaps during the budget cycle.
De Weerd: If that's enough time to get a good indication of how things are going. Okay.
Dees: We will do that.
De Weerd: Good. Well, thank you. We appreciate shall you being here. Thank you
for our water staff. I think you guys are going to be the men on the front line on this;
right? Well, thank you for being here.
Item 8: Executive Session per Idaho State Code 67-2345 (1) (~ - To Consider
and Advise its Legal Representatives in Pending Litigation
De Weerd: Okay. Council, we have one item that was added to the end of our agenda.
Item 8, Executive Session. Do I have a motion?
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I move that we go into Executive Session per Idaho Code Section 67-
2345(1)(f).
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to adjourn into Executive Session. Madam
Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, absent; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
EXECUTIVE SESSION: (8:03 p.m. to 8:20 p.m.)
Rountree: -- Executive Session.
Hoaglun: Second.
De Weerd: All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
Meridian City Council Workshop Meeting
February 8, 2011
Page 33 of 33
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Rountree: Move to adjourn.
Hoaglun: Second.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: All those in favor? All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 8:20 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
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