Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAboutAugust 21, 2003 P & Z CommMeridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Augusl 2l, 2003 Page 7 of 113 clinic in an L-O zone for Seegmiller Dental by Dave Seegmiller, south of East Gala Street and east of South Millennium Way. Including all staff comments from a memo dated June 30`h and the original hearing date was July 3rd, postponed until August 21S` End of motion. Zaremba: Second. Borup: Motion and second. All in favor? Any opposed? MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, TWO ABSENT Item 6. Continued Public Hearing from August 7, 2003: CPA 03-003 Request for amendment to the text of the Comprehensive Plan to allow new residential uses within the mixed use WWTP zoning designation for proposed Stapleton Subdivision by Wardle and Associates - 3680 West Ustick Road: Item 7. Continued Public Hearing from August 7, 2003: RZ 03-009 Request for a Rezone of 6.39 acres from C-N to R-8 zones for proposed Stapleton Subdivision by Wardle and Associates - 3680 West Ustick Road: Item 8. Continued Public Hearing from August 7, 2003: PP 03-019 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 40 building lots and 7 other lots on 5.93 acres in a proposed R-8 zone for proposed Stapleton Subdivision by Wardle and Associates - 3680 West Ustick Road: Item 9. Continued Public Hearing from August 7, 2003: CUP 03-034 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a Planned Development fora 41- lot subdivision to include a reduction in minimum size lots, size of homes, minimum square footage on main floor of multi-level homes, and setbacks in a proposed R-8 zone for proposed Stapleton Subdivision by Wardle and Associates - 3680 West Ustick Road: Borup: Now, this next project we really have four items pertaining to the same project. It is listed as a Continued Public Hearing. We did not have a presentation or any testimony on this. This was after -- this was at the end of our last meeting and after the time when we start new Public Hearings. Because I think staff of recommendations and to facilitate this, we would like to continue with Item Number 6 as a single item and, then, after that we would get into the seven, eight, and nine, which is -- seven, eight, and nine hearing is on the project itself with the Preliminary Plat and Conditional Use and rezoning. I would like to open Continued Public Hearing CUP 03-003, this is a request for an amendment to the text of the Comprehensive Plan to allow new residential uses within the mixed use WWTP zoning designation for the proposed Stapleton Subdivision by Wardle and Associates. This project is at 3680 West Ustick Road. We'd like to start with the staff report. Again, this is just on Item Number 6. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting August 21, 2003 Page 8 of 113 Hawkins-Clark: Okay. Then, just on Item Number 6, the request for the Comp Plan Amendment. Borup: Right. Hawkins-Clark: I have shown on the presentation, just to help orient you, you're no doubt familiar with the area as part of the Comprehensive Plan process a year ago, but the area we are talking about is generally here at the northwest corner of Ten Mile and Ustick Roads. The property that is for the next three items on the agenda is shown here with the -- with the Nine Mile adjacent to it on the east side. Their request is -- does not, actually, relate to this future land use map, it's strictly a proposed text change. Right now in this area that's shown as kind of this off-brown color, the Comp Plan says there will be no new housing permitted. There is also an additional five or six policies that I included in my staff report that also pertain to development in that area, but the specific policy that they are proposing to change is to allow new residential uses in this area with a Conditional Use Permit. Just to clarify, I think you received the original application, but, then, there was a supplement that was submitted after that by Jonathan Wardle with the Wardle Group. He outlined in there a number of other justifications that they made where they feel that the change should be made to the Comp Plan, so I wanted to clarify that you received that. We have addressed a couple of prior related actions that are -- have occurred out here in this area on page two of the staff report. Mainly, that the Council did adopt the Comprehensive Plan and land use map on August 6, 2002. They also, on August 6, 2002, denied a request for annexation to a light industrial zone on the 3D plus acre parcel that's located here right at the corner of Ten Mile and Ustick Road. That was proposed as the Utility Subdivision and I did list the four reasons for their denial of that industrial zone request in the staff report, including the concerns of the neighboring property owners. The fact that the proposed development does not constitute a light industrial use, that the development would pose concerns and noise, odor, liter, and potential impact and that they did not consider that annexation to be in the best interest of the city. Then, the third item I listed that relates to this is the property that is the subject of this application was annexed in December 2002. The Britton parcel, to a C-N zone, and that C-N zone does -- we felt was something that staff and the applicant came to that would match up with the anticipated uses in this Mixed Use Wastewater Treatment Plant Area. That was the reason for the C-N. Centers: Well -- and, Brad, excuse me. I remember that evening. She would have accepted any zone we gave her. Hawkins-Clark: Thank you. Yes. Centers: She just wanted to be annexed into the city. Hawkins-Clark: Right. Right. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting August 21, 2003 Page 9 of 113 Zaremba: Well, in fact, she was cooperating with us, because she had hooked up to sewer and she's required to Annex. As I recall, their original request was a residential zone, we changed it with staff -- staff suggestion, and we recommended that to City Council, that it be changed to C-N. Hawkins-Clark: C-N. Right. Yes. Thanks for that clarification. On Page 3 of the staff report, started to address some of the specifics on this application to amend the Comprehensive Plan policy. I guess the main item to point out there is the fact that the compatibility of residential is basically something that the Public Works Department and the operators of the plant out there have expressed on the record in the past several times that they are generally apposed to adding population of residential uses in this area of the city. In and around the plant and, certainly, this ultimately does come down to a Commission and City Council decision about what is compatibility. Do you feel that there is or could be, through the Conditional Use process of a residential project, some kind of buffer or other mitigating factors added in there and/or will there be that much of an impact on the market that the lots would just simply not sell. These are things that require somewhat of a crystal ball and the compatibility is -- basically will be coming down to your judgment based on what is submitted into the public record. Staff feels generally that this is -- you know, this has only been in place for about a year now in terms of a designation. We would like to see the Comprehensive Plan have more of chance to work with the designations that were adopted. A year is not a long time for the marketplace to respond to changes in the city's plan, so that's one thing that we would like to see continued on. Even if residential were allowed adjacent to the Wastewater Treatment Plant, probably the lower densities would be preferred as are out there now, which are the rural type uses and densities. We are, as we put in our recommendation, just feel that the application just really doesn't warrant the change at this time. I did include some acreage that gives you a sense for how much property is out there. There are 420.43 acres in that Wastewater Treatment Plant area. Of that 420 acres, about 250 is available for nonresidential uses, if you assume that the school district is going to pursue this 40 acre piece that's shown here, which is, actually, a part of the frontage on Black Cat Road. This is all existing single parcel, I believe but the breakdowns are shown there. Mr. Wardle did, in his application talk about the amount of nonresidential uses that could potentially be constructed out here should this go all nonresidential. With a floor area ratio of around .25, which is pretty well founded in terms of how much acreage would be dedicated for actual square footage of the building and how -- in relationship to the area of the whole -- of the land. You know, we recognize that 100 percent nonresidential at a .25 would probably overwhelm the North Meridian Area and that's why in our recommendation we are basically saying we would like the opportunity to spend more time with the property owners. Possibly with other planners, other developers, and kind of look at this whole section in a more intensive way, probably as part of the Comprehensive Plan Amendment with the North Meridian Area, as you recall, was withdrawn, so that we can pursue that. We think that this could be kind of folded into that effort. I don't think I'll point out anything else, other than that we have recommended that the Comp Plan Amendment not be approved right now. We think there is more work to be done and that the plan should have more than one Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting August 21, 2003 Page 10 of 113 year to -- allowing the commercial and the light industrial and the general market to adjust to the new developments and the patterns that we have shown in the Comp Plan. Centers: Mr. Chairman? Borup: Commissioner Centers. Centers: I'd like to ask how long has the treatment plant been there? That long? Hawkins-Clark: Bruce Freckleton is saying he thinks it's the late '70s. Centers: Thank you. Borup: Other questions from the Commission? You're saying you'd like not to do anything in this area until a more comprehensive plan has been developed. Is that generally what you're saying? Hawkins-Clark: Well, Ithink -- no. Ithink there are entitlements that certainly go with the current Comprehensive Plan for this area and -- Borup: We just don't know what they are. Hawkins-Clark: --Ithink they are -- well, they are the office, the light industrial, some small retail, other uses that are currently allowed out there we think would -- obviously, we are not going to recommend anything other than approval if the plan and the use complies with the policies that are currently stated. We are just simply saying with this application to allow the new residential is -- Borup: I have got a couple of questions on the definition, then. A Planned Unit Development, general planned residential, what type of -- what type of residential housing would fit under that category? Hawkins-Clark: Are you referring, Chairman, to the schedule of use control that -- Borup: Yes. Hawkins-Clark: -- shows the plan? There is no housing type or product type that is -- Bdrup: Other than just residential. Hawkins-Clark: Right. Borup: Well, I note that this is presently a C-N zone and a general planned residential project can go in a C-N zone as a conditional -- C-N zone as a Conditional Use, without even needing a zone change. I mean it's a permitted use with a Conditional Use. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting August 21, 2003 Page 11 of 113 Hawkins-Clark: We would certainly have to find that the use is consistent with the Comp Plan -- Borup: Also. Hawkins-Clark: -- regardless of -- you know, at the time of any development application. But -- and I would probably need a minute to do that, but I could check -- I believe that that was, actually, stricken as a part of an ordinance amendment about a year and a half ago: We had -- the schedule of use was modified. Borup: Do we have that new modification yet? Have you guys got it? Zaremba: I do not have -- you're talking about Chapter 8? I don't have a Chapter 8 any newer than two years ago. Borup: Okay. Any other questions from the Commission? Centers: Yes. I had a question, Mr. Chairman, but I see that he's looking -- Zaremba: One of the additional uses that have been floated for that area -- while you're still looking -- is a park. Wouldn't be anything wrong with resurrecting that for a few of these acres, too. Hawkins-Clark: I believe it is under Ordinance 03-1006, but it looks like it was just the general planned residential that was stricken. It still allowed the planned residential development, so -- no, t'm sorry, it doesn't. Yes. The planned residential development is allowed as a Conditional Use Permit in the residential -- all four residential zones, but the Planned Unit Development general planned residential was stricken from the C-N zone, so that was -- Borup: It was stricken? Hawkins-Clark: It was stricken as a part of that ordinance amendment. Borup: I do not have -- I mean I'm still looking at my old one that had that as a Conditional Use. Centers: The way I understand it, from what I read, if we approve the text amendment or recommend approval, it applies to all of the brown area. Hawkins-Clark: That's correct. Centers: And it can't specific for this specific property, it has to apply to the whole area? Hawkins-Clark: Yes. As the application was submitted that's certainly the case and we would -- we would want to see, when it comes to a Comp Plan policy, address a Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting August 21, 2003 Page 12 of 113 broader area than just one parcel. That's not the tool for our Comp Plan to just deal with the -- Centers: Right. Okay. Borup: Okay. Would the applicant like to make their presentation? Wardle: Commissioners, for the record, my name is Jon Wardle. My address is _4940 East Mill Station Drive, Boise 83716. I appreciate the opportunity to be here this evening. If I could just clarify one point that was discussed on the Britton property, there wasn't an option to do residential, because the Comp Plan precluded it. That's why it went to the commercial zone. It probably could have gone to limited office, maybe even light industrial, but she needed to be in the city, she needed sewer, so that's where it ended up. There wasn't an option for residential, although she requested that. I'd like to give a little bit of background, because it's important to this whole discussion of what is'the mixed use Wastewater Treatment Plant area, what does the city want it to become. In 1993 the city designated this area generally as rural residential agricultural. There was a park site designated on generally the corner, which we refer to as Utility Subdivision, which many of you are familiar with. Mare recently, you have had a lot of discussions on that very application. I'm not going to go into the details of it, but there were some issues raised within that application that are applicable to this entire area. There were ten Public Hearings on that application. There were, actually, eleven, but the first one was deferred. There were ten Public Hearings, including what you had, as well as City Council. The issue of a regional park site was discussed. The Parks Department decided not to go with this location, the public record stated because they were told that the odor may be too strong for their patrons, so they chose to go two miles down the road to a location at Ustick and -- is it Ustick or is it McMillan and Meridian? Ustick. That's where the regional park site went. There was a residential subdivision proposed by Collins Engineering for an R-4 designation, but it was not accepted, because of the proximity to the Wastewater Treatment Plant. There was also a business park employment center concept floated in front of the city and this is based on the public record. The city said, no, we'd prefer that it not go there, because of the eminent odor that may come from the Wastewater Treatment Plant. Here were three applications or three potential projects for this area, they were all told that, no, it wasn't appropriate at this location. Alight industrial project was proposed. That was Utility Subdivision proposed in 2001, carried on through 2002. Ultimately, that project was denied, because it was deemed to be heavier industrial and would not have been compatible with the existing neighborhood, which was residential. In 2002, the city adopted the mixed used Wastewater Treatment Plant and as Brad stated, it encompasses about 420 acres. That's a big area 420 acres with a mixed-use designation, and I'd like to just get into what same of the uses could be if granted a Conditional Use Permit and that's the catch, if granted a Conditional Use Permit. Light professional offices, and flex space uses, including light warehousing. No new residential period. Limited small-scale retail and mini storage so, those uses were specifically laid out in the Comp Plan as being appropriate for this mixed-use Wastewater Treatment Plant. The staff did detail some more specifics of what it really Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting August 21, 2003 Page 13 of 113 breaks down to. There is approximately 292 acres that could potentially be developed in this area so, let's use that as our baseline number, 292. They make the statement in there that 40 acres is potentially designated as a school district property. What school district property is this? Is this an elementary school? Is this a middle school? Is this potentially a high school? I think that needs to be understood as well, because as I read this mixed-use Wastewater Treatment Plant designation, it doesn't say anything about schools, but it's very specific in the items of the goals of the Comprehensive Plan that they want to minimize human exposure to the Wastewater Treatment Plant. If this is an elementary school, that's potentially 600 students, Middle school, a thousand, and High school, 2,000. Something needs to be addressed on that as well. This is a bigger issue than just residential. I gave you a memo and that memo was included in the packet, but it's been updated to address the numbers that have been provided in the most recent staff report, so the numbers are updated, I'm just going to read some of those issues. A variety of application studies and issues are important to consider as the future commercial retail industrial viability of this mixed-used Wastewater Treatment Plant. First, industrial uses the city received a request and held Public Hearings for industrial and storage applications known as Utility Subdivision. That project was denied and deemed not compatible with the neighborhood. The city made it clear that heavy industrial uses are not appropriate at this location. Retail uses. The city did a study in late 2001 performed by an outside consultant by the name of Ed Starkey and tried to decipher how much retail is potentially going to be in the North Meridian Area and I think over the city as well, but, specifically, it was in concert with this discussion. That January 11, 2002, report stated each square mile will support about 43,000 square feet. If you put that in acreage size, it's about one acre. If you take to a floor area ratio of .25, that's about four acres worth of retail in every square section. That would -- if we back out those four acres as retail possibility in the section, that would leave 246 acres of -- what do we do with it? Location on linkages the mixed-use Wastewater Treatment area is poorly situated for type and intensity of uses proposed by the existing Comprehensive Plan. Retail office, light industrial, and flex spaces desire good access, visibility, and linkages to a larger transportation network. The site is two miles from Highway 20-26, eight miles from the interest interstate point. Some of the 250 acres may be developed as commercial and/or office uses. That's very possible. However, much of it will never be viable given the already approved projects in the North Meridian area, which have much better locations and linkages to those transportation corridors. Even if the transportation linkages were better, the mixed-use Wastewater Treatment Plant appears to disallow office -- large office and manufacturing parks given the limited land use option of only light professional offices and flex space. We don't want to get into heavy industrial. I am assuming that the light profession offices -- there may be some discussion of what exactly that means, but I'm not sure it would represent a park similar to what we have out at EI Dorado or Silverstone out on Overland Road. Those are major facilities and I'm not sure that this location is geared to a major facility like that. ACHD did a study with the North Meridian Plan to determine how much industrial space -- or, pardon me, how much commercial and retail space they envisioned happening out here. Strangely enough, the study was completely silent on industrial. I asked them why. They said ACHD didn't request any industrial uses out there, nor did the City of Meridian bring it up. It may have been an oversight, but let me give you the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting August 21, 2003 Page 14 of 113 numbers of how much retail and office they are proposing. If you combine the two, its 4,673,000 square feet if you put that into acreage size with a floor area ratio of .25, that's about 429 acres worth of office and retail space. The 246 acres that we are talking about here, if you use just a simple floor area ratio of .25, so a quarter of every square foot would be dedicated to a use and the rest would be either landscaping or office. You would get about 2,678,000 square feet of space out here if it was retail or office. Now, the issue with flex space and manufacturing space, warehouse space is different, talking with representatives who deal with these flex facilities. Their floor area ratio is based on circulation and parking requirements, as well as docks, is anywhere from .35 to .5. We are talking even more square footage of possible warehouse space in this location. It would be a range from 3,750,000 square feet up to 5,387,000 square feet. If you put all the retail that's projected in the North Meridian Area and you compare it to this area, it would represent about 57 percent of all that retail and commercial space going here. That's highly unlikely that's ever going to happen, based on existing approvals. Residential neighborhoods, you look at this area, there is adjoining residential to the south, all developed. There is adjoining residential to the east, developed and in the process of being developed. You see across McMillan Road it's shown as -- I think it's medium density residential. You come down Black Cat Road it shows it as both medium and low density residential. Around here, they are proposing that uses will occur. The question is what's the magic line? At what point does the break happen of where is it appropriate to have residential and where is it not appropriate to have residential? If I can digress just for one second? This proposed Comprehensive Plan was dated December 2001. It was a plan that you saw, that you looked at. If we look at it today, the Wastewater Treatment Plant is all orange brown. This one -- we are talking about this area right up here. It shows that it's gray. You will notice that everything along Ustick is shown as residential. Now, something happened between the time that this plan was proposed and this plan was adopted and I'm sure that there is an explanation for it, but someone felt that residential was appropriate, at least at some of these locations along here. I just wanted to bring that into the record, that at one point it was proposed as residential along Ustick Road. The real issue here is the Wastewater Treatment Plant. You know, there are comments in the staff report from both Planning and Zoning and Public Works concerned about the impact of odor on humans. You go back to the public record of most recently Utility Subdivision, there was a lot of testimony given of people saying from time to time they do smell it, but it's not all the time and they just have learned to live with it. There was also record that some of these -- the Commissioners on here, as well as City Council, have toured the treatment plant, have been out there, and haven't smelled anything. The real issue here is how real is this smell. I'm not going to discount it. I know what it smells like. It happens from time to time. I have in-laws that live out there and I have smelled it on one occasion, but I have spent a lot of time out there as well. I wanted to know what the city's perception of the smell was not just we have concerns. I called Code Enforcement. Code Enforcement, they weren't aware of any, but they said call the Police Department, they might be. I called the Police Department police, the Police Department says, you know, you're talking to the wrong people, that's not something we deal with, call Code Enforcement. I called Code Enforcement back and they forwarded my phone call to the Wastewater Treatment Plant. I should have started there first. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting August 21, 2003 Page 15 of 113 Probably would have -- connect the dots would have been fewer. I found out from the Wastewater Treatment Plant -- I got a little educational on what type of plant this is. It's an activated sludge plant we tertiary sand treatment. Did I say that right? Okay. In short, that means it generates sludge and from three or four times a year that sludge is picked up, it's -- sometimes it's -- I don't know if it's sold or given to farmers. It's basically used as a solid bio solvent that they can put as fertilizer and use it on -- and the Wastewater Treatment Plant said if I even wanted to use it in my yard, I could. It's that type of material, and they said that's the time when the odors are most prevalent and I asked the question how many complaints have you received? How many calls have you received? He said over the last five years they have received three phone calls about the smell. One of them was from a new resident that was unaware that the Wastewater Treatment Plant was there, but she lived amile -- about three-quarters of a mile to the southeast, which is the prevailing direction of the wind, so she caught a sniff. From their perspective, they have had three calls over the last five years. I would also assume that they prefer that nothing be there, but he did state to me that if residential occurs, people need to know up front what they are buying and where they are buying next to. It needs to be clearly stated and we are prepared to do that, inform the people that we work with what's out there. Borup: Mr. Wardle, I was very interested in that. That was one of the questions I had down, was how many complaints there had been, and you must have anticipated that. I don't know. Wardle: Can I make a couple more comments? Borup: Yes. I mean I have heard others say that some of the people have thought that it was a sewer plant and it was a dairy farm down the road. Zaremba: There was a big cattle operation right next to it. Borup: Is there -- was that even differentiated between? Wardle: No. Borup: Okay. Go ahead. Wardle: Okay. I would assume that if the Wastewater Treatment Plant receives a phone call, that it's probably something they anticipate. Whether they could differentiate between what's happening at the dairy or themselves, I don't know. During the Utility Subdivision project, some testimony was given by the public that at times you could smell the Wastewater Treatment Plant. For the most part, there was no smell at all. Even members of the Commission had stated on a tour they didn't experience any smell. We are going into this project wide open. We know where we are. We know the location. We understand the concerns of the city. We also need to be very clear of if residential is not allowed here, what will you allow? The park site decided not to go here because of that concern. The proposed residential subdivision was not allowed to Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting August 21, 2003 Page 16 of 113 go here. Business employment center was told we'd prefer you not be there and the industrial subdivision was denied. If those uses are not allowed and are going to be requested to not be here at this location, what will be? I guess it's our request this evening that residential be strongly considered as an appropriate use, especially given the adjoining residential uses around. I think that we can work with future buyers as the project goes forward on educating them and we are prepared to do so on both plat and CC&R's, so that it's clearly stated in both locations. Centers: So, that's haw you're going to do it? That was my main question that they don't do it. Wardle: It doesn't do it? Centers: They don't read it. They don't read the CC&R's. They don't read the plat. I would love to see it residential if the future homeowners had the opportunity -- if there was a sign all the way around it, there is a Wastewater Plant so many feet from this location, but that's not going to happen. You come up with an imaginative idea to keep the public informed that there is a Wastewater Treatment Plant and, you know, I would definitely be interested in that, because I have thought and thought about it since I saw this application. Because five years from now a homeowner resells to another party down the road and they are not going to know that the Wastewater Treatment Plant is so many feet away. I would love to see it residential if the public could be informed -- not all of the area residential, maybe the area you're talking about, but I don't know how you can keep them informed. They don't read the CC&R's and they won't read the plat. Wardle: Mr. Chairman, if I might. Commissioner Centers, something we have done in another project where we had issues of concern, which was Harris Ranch, we had an addendum that every buyer that came in signed the addendum and it stated very specifically things that they needed to be aware of. They signed that -- we stated what those things were. One of them was -- we had a depredation easement, which was for the wildlife. We are near the wildlife management area, they were going to be in the area, and so we needed to make them aware of that. I think it's something we can do in this case as well and we have prepared language to -- Centers: Is that an addendum to the sales agreement? Wardle: Yes. Centers: When you sold the property to the builder for the lot or the builder sold the completed home to the buyer? Wardle: It was when the builder sold the home to the end buyer.. Borup: So, that addendum would accompany the deed? Can you even do that? Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting August 21, 2003 Page 17 of 113 Powell: Anna Powell. It does get transferred to the second owner with the CC&R's, I believe, but -- because I'm not the first owner of my house and yet I got a copy of it. I'll also comment that there are violations against that all over the place. I mean one says you can't have wrought iron fences with spikes on the top and they are everywhere, so - Borup: Well -- but I think the point was there, they are made aware of it with a separate thing that they have to sign. It's not something that's in a 40-page document Centers: Well -- and I'm concerned about the homeowner down the road. That guy that gets that and, then, he sells it, he's not required to -- Borup: Well, if it's an addendum to the deed, wouldn't that have to -- Centers: He's talking the sales agreement, Mr. Chairman, when they sell the property to the -- Borup: Well, the first buyer. Well, that was my question. Can that be an addendum to the deed? If that's the case, that would be transferred every time the property is -- Centers: That would be -- Borup: I don't know the legal aspects of that. Centers: Because the way I read the concerns from Mr. Watson is kind of like the concerns of people that have livestock and, hey, we are here first, we are grandfathered. That's Mr. Watson's concern, we were here first, we are grandfathered, we don't want to hear the complaints, and I don't blame him. Borup: I don't either. Centers: So, I think that's his major concern, the four points he made Wardle: If I might just make one more point. It's been my understanding and substantiated by the Wastewater Treatment Plant, but there is funding coming in this year and it's their expectation that no smell or very little smell will come from the treatment plant. Now, maybe Public Works can address that, but it's my understanding that there is funding in place and staff said within the next 12 months the smell should go away completely. Borup: Comment on that, Bruce? Freckleton: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission. What if? I mean what if it doesn't are you going to want mitigation. You know, what we are trying to do is protect the city, protect potential buyers -- we don't want to get the phone calls, we don't want the complaints, we want the same protections as like the Right to Farm Act provides. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting August 21, 2003 Page 18 of 113 You know, I have been here for 10 years, 11 years, and ever since I have been here, that plant has been under construction, constant construction. It's not just noise -- or I mean it's not just smell, it's noise and lights and we have huge drying fans out there that run 24-7 and it creates a lot of noise. We do our best -- you know, we do our best to try and keep the smell down, the noise down, but you got to consider the operation. Zaremba: May I ask a question about capacity of the plant? Meridian at this point has not -- we haven't filled in all the spaces that even have already been approved for housing developments and -- I guess my question is what capacity is the plant running at now and is this plant ever going to be enlarged or is there supposed to be a second plant at build out? Freckleton: Commissioner Zaremba, I wish I could answer the question of capacity at this point in time. I don't have that information with me right now. Like I said, the plant is under constant upgrade, expanding the capacity, and we have a long range plan that every year we are keeping up, trying to keep up with the growth. Zaremba: It can continue to expand without using up more of the acreage around it or will it sometime need to be a larger facility? Borup: I think the question is does the city already own enough acres to -- Freckleton: Yes, we do. Borup: -- accommodate Meridian at build out. Zaremba: Eventual full capacity. Freckleton: Yes. At build out, we have enough acreage. Zaremba: Okay. Borup: And that was what I had understood from past comments. Zaremba: Okay. Wardle: Just one final comment and I will sit down and listen to rest of the public testimony. You said no to a park. No industrial. No commercial. No residential. If uses aren't -- and I think the other issue here is you have also placed a Conditional Use Permit on top of this. Someone might come in and say that's retail across from me, that's not compatible with my residential neighborhood and whether you find a finding for that or not, that could go to court and be delayed for many, many years. I think the issue of the Wastewater Treatment Plant -- and I agreed with staff -- needs to be addressed. I hope that this is the forum that it can be addressed. I know that both this Commission and the City Council are interested in finding some sort of compromise for something that can occur here, other than just having a -- as it was told by one Council Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting August 21, 2003 Page 19 of 113 member, a 500 pound orange guerilla that we don't know what to do with. I appreciate your time. Stand for any questions. Borup: Questions from the Commission? Zaremba: I will say that your research has been very thorough and I'm very impressed by the information that you provided to us. Wardle: Thank you. Borup: Any discussion from the Commissioners before we proceed with testimony? Zaremba: I'd like to hear what anybody else has to say. Borup: Okay. Do we have anyone else here to testify on this? Come forward, please. Layton: Chairman Borup, Members of the Commission, my name is Rhonda Layton. My address is 3610 West Ustick Road. I border the proposed property on the east side of the property. I have a one-acre piece that I purchased last year in October and knowing of the Comprehensive Plan at that time, I purchased this piece. I have two horses that live on that acreage with me and I have been grandfathered in. I am in the city I am hooked up to the water and the sewer. I'm in the city limits, but I do have that grandfather clause on that. My property is 110 feet wide and it goes back the length to equal an acre. I don't know how deep it is. There would be nine two-story houses 15 feet from my property line in this proposed deal. I know we are not addressing the details of the plan at this point yet, but I would like to say that I am opposed to basically all of it. I don't want to see the Comprehensive Plan changed drastically for one specific use, one specific six acre piece. If that's an amendment to the Comprehensive Plan and needs to be taken care of addressed, maybe a residential two-acre, horse people that are used to kind of the smell kind of thing, you know. In my opinion, the Wastewater Sewage Plant smells different than the dairy does or did smells different than my horses do. I'm more bothered by, like Bruce said, about the noise and the lights. The noise, the humming, is more so, because it's 24 hours a day. Of course, you don't hear it in the day with the traffic and stuff, but I certainly hear it at night. Then, the lights shine at night, too. At night I would say I would be more bothered with the noise and the lights than I am with, you know, the smell. It comes and goes. I have lived there for nine months and I would say a good 40 percent of the time it smells at some point you know, during the day. If Conditional Use needed to be made in something, I could see a less density project to maybe keep in -- to coincide with the rest of the residential area, rest of the -- I don't know. Borup: So, you're saying a less dense residential use? Layton: I would think that if the commercial -- or if a Conditional Use Permit would be approved on this area, then, at the most part a very less -- or a low density. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting August 21, 2003 Page 20 of 113 Borup: But you're saying residential? Layton: Right. I'm just saying if that -- Borup: The suggested change is to allow residential, rather than the industrial commercial. Layton: Right and I'm saying that if you were to allow the residential, and not allow 40 homes on six acres, but maybe five homes on six acres. Centers: They can do that now in the county. Layton: In the county, but this is city -- this piece is the city. It's annexed. Centers: Let me ask you did you know about the Wastewater Treatment Plant when you purchased your property? Layton: I did. Centers: How did you become aware of that? Layton: I bought from the owner and he disclosed that information to me. Centers: In writing or just a nice guy? Layton: I'm not sure it's in writing. Centers: So, then, what you're saying is it didn't bother you. Layton: In order to buy it? Centers: Right. Layton: I bought it as horse property. I knew my horses would be there also. Centers: But you live there. Layton: I do live there. Centers: You know, irregardless of the horses, you live there. Layton: Yes. Centers: And you knew about the Wastewater Treatment Plant. Layton: Yes. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting August 21, 2003 _ Page 21 of 113 Centers: Okay. Thank you. Borup: You are the property right to the east you said? Layton: Yes. Borup: Did you buy that from Mr. Crane? Layton: Yes, I did. He lives next door to me on the east side. Centers: Okay. You're right about in there? Layton: No. Centers: Right here? Borup: Right here. Layton: I'm right -- that long one right here and, then, Crane is next to me, more towards the east. We both border the Nine Mile Creek. Borup: And you built a new home on your property? Layton: He did. I did not. I have the original old home. Centers: Oh. Okay. Borup: And he's got the newer home. Layton: Yes. I would like to ask have you received the letter that he sent to the planning and zoning? Borup: Yes, we have. Layton: And -- okay. Is that going to be read into it or you just have that in your file? Zaremba: I was going to mention it for the record that we received it. That usually is -- puts it on record. Layton: Okay. Zaremba: Since we are on that subject, we have received a letter from Charles Crane, dated August 21St Layton: Okay. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Augusi 21, 2003 Page 22 of 113 Borup: Thank you. Layton: Thank you. Borup: Do we have anyone else? J. Centers: Commissioners, my name is Jake Centers. My address is 2011 Locust Grove in Meridian, and, for the record, there is no relation to Commissioner Centers that I know about. Centers: Thank you. I don't know of any either. J. Centers: Okay. Good. Okay. Really, it boils down to one of two things. Either the property surrounding the Wastewater Treatment Plant has an odor or it doesn't and if it doesn't have an odor, then, no foul, no harm. You know, approve residential. If it does have an odor, then, kind of what they are saying, the approved uses would be for businesses. If any of you own a business or imagine if you did, would you waht to locate your business in an area that omitted a foul odor, where you relied on clients coming to your business, your place of business, and having to endure that smell. I own a business and I surely wouldn't want to locate my office in a place that's stunk, where I was trying to make impressions on clientele that was coming in -- you know. I mean you usually build your office and have pleasant smells, mood music, and that kind of thing in there to create a pleasurable experience when they come to see you. You know, I don't think that that's something that a business owner would want to do. At least with a house you know that that smell is there and we tolerate a lot of things with our personal residences that we wouldn't necessarily choose to do when we were going out trying to conduct business. I think there is a little bit of a difference with that. There was a comment made by Mrs. Layton about the nine homes being right adjacent to her property. Her house actually sits on the front part of that property and there might only be three actual homes that would, I guess, interfere with her day-to-day activities with her house. She's concerned about two story -- or nine two story residences abutting her property, but there can also be, if this were light industrial, a two story manufacturing facility that operated -- you know. I'm not exactly sure what the hours of operation is limited to in light industrial, but, you know, it could be a 24 hour operation that goes on next door. You know, I don't think this is as bad as it could be if some of the other uses were allowed. There was also some comment about wanting lower density uses on this property and, you know, the reason I identified this property and have presented the plat that we have, is because we have done research on the market, housing market in Meridian. They are -- I'm sure you guys have seen them, there is thousands of lots of standard size ranging anywhere from 60 feet to 80 feet to 100 feet wide and not -- so, I have identified a market that I feel is not being addressed in Meridian and want to be able to provide those smaller lots. Therefore, provide more affordable housing for future buyers in Meridian. We recently did a project on -- further south on Ten Mile -- actually, south of Cherry Lane called Berkeley Square. The project has been underway for about really eight months, they are sold out, and they are nice. They are the same size lots as Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting August 21, 2003 Page 23 of 113 this, it's turned out to be a really great community, it's been able to offer finished product for sale under 120,000 dollars. That's about the only project that I know of that detached single-family ownership that's available in the City of Meridian right now, and you know, mainly because of land costs. Anyway, that was about all I have. Are there any questions? Borup: Questions from the Commission? Okay. J. Centers: Thank you. Borup: Do we have anyone else? Commissioners? To me, the most telling argument is what do we do with it. I mean so far everything that has been proposed has not been approved. Zaremba: Well, yes and no. Borup: If the city didn't want a development there, maybe they should have just said no development. Zaremba: The Utility Subdivision that has been mentioned I thought was a good project, except for the two tenants that they already knew were going to be there. They were not in the spirit of light industrial. The project itself, if they would have had different tenants, I would have been fine with, the layout of it and that proposal. I'm very impressed by the -- Borup: But what type of tenants would be there? I mean the city has turned down office complexes. Zaremba: Well, I picture light industrial as -- Borup: Which is what? Did we ever get a definition on the record? We still don't even have a definition of light industrial. It's just straight industrial. Zaremba: Well -- Borup: And we have only got one industrial designation. Zaremba: We have light industrial defined and we have on the schedule of use control only industrial, which use -- most of which are heavy industrial. Just to express an opinion, again, I am very impressed with what Mr. Wardle has put together. I agree with the staff comment, that we have not given a lot of time for the no new residential to be in effect and to see what can be there. I'm not sure it's our job to decide what should be there, but to protect those who shouldn't be there. I'm inclined to let the no new residential be the rule for a lot more than one year. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting August 21, 2003 Page 24 of 113 Centers: Mr. Chairman, I have a direct question for Mrs. Powell. What's your opinion when you redo the North Meridian plan area? You're going to have to address this. What are you coming in with it at? Powell: Well, actually, the North Meridian Area Plan still left it as Wastewater Treatment Plant, so we could discuss it as part of this conversation, I think, is what Brad was saying, but that's their -- as I understand it, they had not proposed a change to this area. Centers: They? Powell: They being the applicants that had submitted the North Meridian Area Plan. Centers: And you were redrafting that. Powell: Correct. Centers: You and your staff. What are you going to come back with for the waste -- for this area? Powell: Well, our charge was to fold their ideas in with the existing Comprehensive Plan and since they didn't express new ideas for this area, we hadn't exactly planned on changing it. Now, if you would like us -- Centers: Well, I think that's unfair. I think that's very unfair to lay it back on Wardle, that they didn't recommend a change for this. They were volunteering their time, they didn't address it, you know, so what -- what do you want to do? Do you want to leave it that way? I mean you were just passing the buck to them that they didn't recommend anything. You're going to leave it that way? Powell: Well, as part of that charge to fold that into there, no, we hadn't considered it. If you would like us to consider different uses while we are doing that, we would be happy to. I wasn't trying to pass the buck, sir, Ijust -- Centers: Well, because you hadn't -- they hadn't recommended anything, so -- Powell: Right. If that's something the planning commission would like to us to do, we can certainly look at that further. Centers: We are just individuals up here. I think it's what the community wants and, you know, the development community and the people that own that property, are they going to be able to sell it. Are they going to be able to find enough buyers for light industrial? I doubt it. I totally agree with that. There is no doubt about it. On the other hand, we do have a Comprehensive Plan and if we change the text for these six acres, it applies to the whole area. That's why I'm trying to pin you dawn on your recommendation when you come back for your change to the North Meridian Plan Area. I mean these people shouldn't have to sit there and not be able to sell their property. I Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Augus[ 21, 2003 Page 25 of 113 have always advocated that. It's very unfair to the property owners. A couple of the property owners that have always appeared at this commission and protested whatever development, you're always going to have those people, whether it's residential or industrial, heavy or light. I think the owners of those parcels of land should have the opportunity to sell them and, presently, I don't think they are going to have that opportunity. Powell: Chairman Borup, Commissioner Centers, we can certainly include that with our efforts to revisit that North Meridian Area Plan, be happy to do that, and I think the Wardle's have provided with this application a lot of good information that we can consider for that. Centers: Yes. We heard testimony from one lady, she knew about the treatment plant and she still purchased property there. I think if proper notification is given, it's probably a better use than totally industrial. If the people want to live there and they give -- I think the chairman's idea of a permanent notification on each and every warranty deed that is handed to a buyer and -- I think that could be done. Thank you. Zaremba: Well, one of the recommendations that the North Meridian area study did make was to connect Black Cat Road to Highway 16. When that river crossing is made, Black Cat Road may at some point become a major transportation corridor, which would address one of the issues that was raised today about this being some distance from transportation corridors. Centers: But staff disagreed with that. They wanted to leave it as Ten Mile. Borup: Well -- and, then, Ten Mile is even closer to this area. If Highway 16 connects to Ten Mile, then, that -- Centers: No. Was it Ten Mile or -- Borup: Ten Mile would be the interchange. Zaremba: And Ten Mile is what's being discussion for the interchange, so in the discussion of how is Highway 16 going to get to the interchange, both Black Cat and Ten Mile have been proposed as options and that brings a major transportation corridor right to this property. Not the identical property tonight, but to the mixed use wastewater treatment area and I realize that's not a tomorrow solution, but I still feel that we need to let the current Comprehensive Plan work for awhile. The difficulty is if, as Commissioner Centers points out, if we make this change, that we, in all fairness, need to make it for the entire area, which, essentially, means that there -- it un-uniques this area. If you have amixed-use Wastewater Treatment Plant area that has no different rules than anywhere else -- Borup: Well, but it does, because everything else would still apply. The only thing that the text amendment was changing is that in addition to everything else, that residential Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting August 21, 2003 Page 26 of 113 could be considered. We are just adding one more use to the allowed uses. Well, I mean -- not allowed uses, but -- Zaremba: That's a 180-degree change from the current -- Borup: Well, it is. It is. Because right now -- Zaremba: It's a turn around. Borup: Well, it says that residential is strictly forbidden. Anything coming up would be on aproject-by-project consideration. It's not a blanket thing that the whole thing is going to turn residential. Centers: That's a question I had. If we allow the text amendment, that residential use would just be one additional use that would be allowed, correct? The allowed uses would also include residential, correct? Hawkins-Clark: Correct. Centers: For all of that area, and every application would be a CUP? Hawkins-Clark: Correct. Borup: I certainly agree the proposed -- I mean the Comp Plan has the best use for that area, but I also think sometimes it's not bad to be practical and you're not going to have five million square feet of space around that area. It's just not going to happen. There has to be more than just office buildings or whatever light industrial is supposed to be. Some industrial use that doesn't have people associated with it. Powell: Chairman Borup, just to follow up on the Commissioner Centers' previous statement that you -- this would allow residential in all of those -- in all of that area, except, of course, the property owned by the Wastewater Treatment Plant, which at an average of five units to the acre, would leave you with 1,870 residents in that area. If we take the commercial to the extreme and the residential to the extreme, you're looking at an awful lot of residents around there. I mean they only get three complaints now, because you can see how many houses are probably out there, there is 12 to 15, maybe, but you're going to get a lot more complaints with almost 2,000 people living out there. That's units. That's 1,870 units, so you get -- Borup: Well, that's at a 100 percent residential you're saying. Powell: Right. That's what that text amendment would be allowing. I mean they presented the extreme on the commercial area and this would be the extreme on the residential area. Borup: Yes. They are both extremes. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting August 21, 2003 Page 27 of 113 Pdwell: Yes. Borup: Well, I know we have from previous -- I mean we know what -- we know what the residential neighborhood to the south wants, they -- we have heard that testimony just -- it was just about unanimous, they all wanted some type of residential buffer. Centers: Oh, yes, and to the east. The subdivision to the east and to the south. Borup: Well, the east didn't seem to care an awful lot, but the one to the south wanted some type of residential buffer. I'm thinking of -- the idea of some type of buffer along Ustick Road maybe is not a bad idea. Freckleton: Mr. Chairman, just one point of clarification. At the time that Utility Sub was going through, Hartford on the corner to the east, I don't believe it had any houses in it. It was a bare, empty subdivision, so -- Borup: Right. The Individual I was thinking of was living there, but not a new home, it was an existing home. Freckleton: That's correct but the subdivision was empty. Borup: Did you have another comment, Mr. Centers? J. Centers: I did. Jake Centers, far the record, again. You know, I mean if the odor is there, like I said again, if -- say I build an office building and Ihave -- I lease it to a business owner who moves in on a day that there is no odor and all of a sudden one day there is that odor. I mean why is he not -- you know, I mean we are just sitting here talking about only the residential people that would move in here would be the ones that would complain. I mean as a business owner, if, you know, that odor was there, you're going to call and -- make that call just as if you actually lived there. I mean, you know, if -- like I said, if there is an odor and we move people in here, which, unless you condemn the whole area, people are either going to work there or they are going to live there, then, you know, those calls are going to come in regardless if that odor exists. I have been out there, you know, a dozen times and, actually, the only sewer odor I smelled was from the manhole out in Ustick in the front when that pressurized system was coming through and that's what smelled bad. Anyway, there is a house there now, we have guys renting in there, they have lived there a month. I specifically asked them yesterday, never told them the plant was there or nothing. They said they smelled it once and that was it, so -- and, you know, like we talked about, I mean if everybody -- you know, we have had testimony from Ms. Layton that it does smell and I'm sure Mr. Crane commented on the same in his letter. I mean if it's so bad, why are they still living there. You know, why did Mr. Cramer subdivide his property and build his dream home there, you know. It's -- Centers: Well, Jake, all these people smell the same thing that -- Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Mee[Ing August 21, 2003 Page 28 of 113 J. Centers: And that's the other thing, Imean -- Centers: Yes. All of these people in the southeast area -- J. Centers: Yes. Is a couple hundred feet going to make a difference when -- you know, I mean I don't think so. Anyway -- Borup: Okay. Other discussion from the Commissioners? Centers: Well, Mr. Chairman, I have got to admit I read everything before I got here and I have learned to keep an open mind until you hear testimony and I honestly can say that I did have when I got here and I hadn't made up my mind. I would like to have staff buy into the way I'm feeling and that that's to allow residential use. I guess I had misunderstood or was thinking of it improperly, that when the chairman indicated that we are just adding an additional use alongside industrial and whatever. I'm concerned, like Mr. Watson is, that people aren't notified and I -- maybe the attorney can tell me, are we going to be able to put that on a deed or require that of the property owner to put that on a warranty deed that's passed down? Holinka: Chairman Borup, Commissioner Centers, I don't know if that's something you can put on a deed. Imean you can probably attach that as an addendum, possibly, that could be attached to a deed, but, in any event, that would be something that the homeowners would have to -- Centers: So, in other words, if we required it, there really would be no guarantee? Borup: Wouldn't that be similar to -- I mean I know some of -- on their deeds they have an addendum notifying them that they are in an area of impact, the city's area of impact. Some of them -- that's not uniform, but some subdivisions have had that, so individuals have been notified and had to sign recognizing that. Would this be any different? Centers: Well, if the city was so concerned, too, when the new homeowner moved in there and they got their first water bill, they could enclose a notice to them at that time. Borup: It's too late, then. Centers: That's true. But -- Borup: It sounds like you have got one of the main concerns I do, I mean as long as people go into something with their eyes open -- Centers: Right. Borup: -- that's their choice. Imean that's -- Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Augusl 21, 2003 Page 29 of 113 Centers: Totally. Borup: -- the free market and I think maybe there needs to be some notification, because it sounds like a lot of people moved in here and weren't even aware the plant was there. I mean it is screened pretty well with trees and such. Centers: Well, as you said earlier, I think, you know, it's obvious by the testimony we had at previous hearings for the Utility Sub, that most residents in that area would prefer residential. Borup: Mr. Forrey, have you got a -- pertaining to the thing we were just discussing, it sounds like? Centers: I was wondering if you would get up and -- Forrey: Add something? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. For the record Wayne Forrey, urban planning consultant, and think about this Boise City in any development in proximity to the Boise airport, the developer is required to sign an aviation easement. That puts the property buyer -- and it gets into all of the real estate records, that you're in proximity to the airport and there is a risk of an aircraft falling out of the sky and damaging your property and that, of course, affects your insurance rates on homeowners insurance. I also am involved in several projects in the Salt Lake area -- Borup: Clarify now -- so that -- you say the developer is required to do that. Is that each homeowner? Forrey: Yes. Borup: And each time the property changes hands is the same thing? Forrey: Yes. It is, actually, a legal attachment to all the real estate papers that there is an aviation easement, just like there would be an Idaho Power easement or a gas easement or a road easement, that -- but it's in the air. Now, in Salt Lake they have sanitation easements, so if you're in proximity to a Waste Treatment Plant in the Salt Lake area. There is a similar easement that if you are within 600 feet or 700 feet of the city of Sandy or the city of Provo or the city of Salt Lake or Ogden, and that's mandated through their state local land use planning act, just like we have area of impact. It's a state -- and it's very routine in Utah and just like it is here in Boise with the airport. There are mechanisms to formally place people on notice that they are in an area that's unique or special, whether it's airplanes, industrial facilities, or a gas pipeline. Centers: And we could put whatever name we want on it. Forrey: In the Utah area it's a sanitation easement. Centers: Sanitation easement. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting August 21, 2003 Page 30 of 113 Forrey: And in Boise, it's an aviation easement in the airport area. I mean there are some tools you could research and -- your staff I'm sure could research that and see how other cities do it. Borup: I would say the applicant needs to research it and present an option, rather than having staff research it. Yes. I was going to ask if you had, any final comments, Mr. Wardle. Wardle: Appreciate it, Mr. Chairman for the record, Jon Wardle. In terms of researching it, I would be happy to. Actually; I have done a project out in the Boise airport area and have an aviation easement on a project, so I'm aware of those, they do run with the property, so as we have sold lots that runs with it. I'm in the Utah area, so will also look up the issue on the sewer easement or the sanitation easements. Just one final thought. I have done a lot of research on this project, just to look at the viability and, correct, one day Ten Mile or Black Cat and/or both are going to be upgraded, either to three or five lane facilities, one likely will go down to the freeway, one likely will go up to Chinden, Highway 20-26. If you look at the map, compare that to the rest of the center of activity in terms of industrial and commercial uses. It is pretty removed. I have spoken with representatives of Colliers, I have spoken to representatives of Thornton Oliver Keller, who are large brokers in terms of office, retail, and industrial uses and this is not an area that would ever come up on their radars as viable for industrial parks, just because of its proximity to almost nothing. There is no railroad that comes out here. Obviously, heavy industrial is not a possibility, we know that, but that would limit some light manufacturing uses as well, and the nearness to those public or those transportation facilities is a problem just wanted to state that for the record, that I'm not taking this lightly. I understand the concerns of staff, but we need to talk about market realities. If we let this plan go unchanged, I doubt you will have -- at some point you may a project that comes back in on Utility Subdivision, but I doubt you would have anything more than that in the future ever. I'm curious to know the city is going to address a school district use in the mixed use Wastewater Treatment Plant area as well. I appreciate the opportunity to testify. I know that this is not to be taken lightly, it's a big change, but I think that the information is in front of you to make some sort of a decision and give us the direction. Thank you. Borup: Thank you. Centers: Mr. Chairman, that's my big hang up is notification and I appreciate Mr. Forrey's information and I would be -- obviously, I lean toward residential use being allowed, but, then, the notification is my hang up. I would like to continue these hearings to the next available hearing and let Mr. Wardle do his homework. He said he had aviation easements and I think he should have done his homework on this sanitation easement and give us something that can be passed on life long to the homeowner of the property and I would be highly in favor of it if that can be included. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting August 21, 2003 Page 31 of 113 Borup: That's an issue I feel strongly on. I mean as long as people know what they are getting into, that should be their choice. Centers: Right. Borup: I know if I was receiving a phone call what my answer would be if any of those people called. It would be probably very short. Centers: Yep. It was in the -- it was on the title in the record and you should have read it. Borup: Right Zaremba: And I would I think chime in with that. Under the present circumstances of not knowing somebody could be notified, I would like to stick with the Comprehensive Plan as it is. I very much like the idea of the sanitation easement or whatever -- whatever you call it. If the applicant can came up with a way that we can do that, would change positions. If I knew there was a guaranteed way to notify those homeowners -- you know what you're buying, then, I could open up the whole area to anybody that was willing to buy there. Borup: And I still would not anticipate this whole area goes residential. I really think it needs to have some other uses, but with that many acres, it's not going to happen. Zaremba: Even the industrial and office uses should have that same sanitation easement idea. Borup: Right Zaremba: I mean anybody that buys in that area should be given this piece of information and we need to assure that we know that they are getting it. I kind of would side with Commissioner Centers, if we continue this and hopefully the applicant can come back with amechanism -- Borup: Well, one other thing we need to discussion, then, because we have kind of mixed -- we have kind of mixed the two applications here. Supposedly, we are discussing the Comp Plan text amendment. Zaremba: Well, unless that happens, the other one is -- Borup: But the statement on the sanitation easement -- I'm not sure if it would accompany -- it would not accompany the next plan amendment, that's something that would have to be inserted in each project as the application came forward. Centers: Yes. Well -- and I think the applicant understands that if we don't see something like that, that satisfies us, they won't get the text. You know, they need to Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting August 21, 2003 Page 32 of 113 include it where it needs to be included and we continue all four Public Hearings to our second meeting in September. I think if you do it right and you get that right with that easement and it's passed on and it's in the title policy and every home buyer will see that forever, I think you're going to get -- I can't speak for the Council, but I think you're going to get something favorable there, in my opinion. That's my opinion. If we don't do it right, then, I think you're beating up a dead horse, so -- Zaremba: Do we -- or do you know who determined, for instance, the outline of the aviation easement in Boise I mean how did that come about? Wardle: Mr. Chairman, Commissioner Zaremba, I would assume that it was Boise City attorney's office that came up with that, probably in concert with the airport department. When we did our project we contacted the airport, they had a boilerplate, we gave them certain information, you know, who the developer was, the plat, and the lots, that type of thing, and that was just a recorded instrument at the same time. The way it worked was when the plat was recorded, that instrument was recorded prior to the plat and it showed up as a note on the plat, but it also rolled with all the lots, they were also identified with that. You raise an interesting point, the sanitation easement being applicable to all uses. Perhaps if we go down this route, maybe the text of the Comp Plan at this location needs to state something that all uses will be subject to a sanitation easement in the mixed use Wastewater Treatment Plant. Because I think Mr. Centers - - Mr. Jake Centers made an interesting point of businesses who have individuals that rent are as likely to complain as a homeowner, so -- Centers: Sure. Totally, agree Zaremba: If you would want to modify your application to suggest that text, it would go along way for me. Wardle: Would modification of the application -- modification of the application be necessary or do I just submit something to you -- I mean we have got an idea here, do we just submit this, you know, prior to the next hearing as, you know, this is where we come. These things are kind of -- they expand. Zaremba: We are exploring new territory together. I don't know. Does anybody have an answer to that? Borup: Yes. I don't know why that -- the wording can't be changed by this Commission, essentially. I mean we'd like something specific. Zaremba: We need to find out whether a sanitation easement can be done legally. Centers: You know, I'd like to see an example, you know, of how it's going to be done, Mr. Chairman, and I'd really like to do it right and, then, we can sell this to the City Council. An example -- and maybe get an example from Utah or talk to Mr. Forrey and Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting August 21, 2003 Page 33 of 113 let's get it nailed down. I'm not trying to delay you, I'm trying to get it approved and done. Wardle: Could I ask what the hearing date is going to be? Centers: Well, the second meeting in September -- I know -- correct me if I'm wrong, Mr. Chairman, the 4`h -- the first meeting is booked, based on what I have seen. Borup: Yes. Centers: But the second meeting in September is the 18'". You know, I guess we want some guarantees, you know, and you show us how it's going to be done and it will be passed along with the title and -- I have seen the aviation easements in preliminary title reports and final title properties. That's where they show up, so -- Wardle: Thank you. Centers: Thank you. With that, Mr. Chairman, I would like to recommend that we continue Items 6, 7, 8, and 9 and continue them to our second meeting in September, which would be September 18th and that's a motion. Zaremba: I will second it. Borup: Excuse me. I just --did you -- was your motion to continue all four? Centers: Correct. Zaremba: Did we have all four open? Borup: Well, we didn't, but they were continued -- do I need to reopen -- do I need to open a continued hearing? Centers: Not in my opinion. They are open. Borup: That's what I was thinking. That's what I wanted to verify. They are already open. They are not open? Zaremba: My question would be do we want to include in the motion a specific request of what we want to have accomplished before that meeting. Centers: He better understand it by now. Zaremba: Okay. Centers: He's shaking his head. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting August 21, 2003 Page 34 of 113 Zaremba: Okay. Centers: So what's the consensus? Borup: It looks like we don't have one, so let's --just to cover ourselves, let's go ahead and open Items 7, 8, and 9. I'm not going to go into any more detail than that. We will consider those items open. Centers: Okay. Then, I would move that we continue Items 6, 7, 8, and 9 to our September 18`h meeting. Zaremba: And I will second that motion. Borup: Motion and second. Any discussion? All in favor? Any opposed? MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, TWO ABSENT Borup: Okay. Commissioners, are we -- would you like a short break at this time or would you like to proceed ahead? Centers: Yes. I would, please. Borup: Okay. We will take a short break at this time. (Recess.) Item 11. Continued Public Hearing from August 7, 2003: CUP 03-030 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for adrive-thru coffee kiosk in an L- Ozone for Coffee Kiosk by Donn Reiswig -east of South Eagle Road and south of East Franklin Road: Borup: Okay. We'd like to reconvene our meeting, this evening and start with Item Number 11. This is a Continued Public Hearing from August 7`n, CUP 03-030, request for a Conditional Use Permit for adrive-thru coffee kiosk in an L-O zone for Coffee Kiosk. This is east of Eagle Road and south of Franklin. Like to open this hearing at this time and start with the staff report. Siddoway: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission. This is a request for a Conditional Use Permit to allow a temporary coffee kiosk on a portion of the land that's owned by Touchmark Living Centers for the Meadow Lake Village project. The Conditional Use Permit is required, because of the drive-thru and also because the Planned Development that's been approved on the lot, as a whole requires a Conditional Use Permit for any uses that is proposed. The applicant intends to use this kiosk for a maximum of two years or less if, another user is found for the site. They are proposing no freestanding signs. The kiosk is entirely self-contained and will not be hooked up to water or sewer and no trash enclosure is proposed to be provided and the