HomeMy WebLinkAbout2010 12-14 SpecialMeridian City Council Special Meeting December 14 2010
A Council meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 12:00 p.m.,
Tuesday, December 14, 2010, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, President David Zaremba, Charlie
Rountree, Keith Bird, and Brad Hoaglun.
Others Present: Bill Nary, Jaycee Holman, Anna Canning, Tom Barry, Mark Niemeyer,
Joe Silva, Jeff Lavey, Rich Dees, Steve Siddoway.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
X David Zaremba X Brad Hoaglun
X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
de Weerd: Okay. I will go ahead and call this special meeting -- City Council meeting
to order and ask Madam Clerk to, please, call roll.
de Weerd: And just for the record, this is a special meeting and it is in a workshop form,
so formality will be, one, non-exact. I would welcome everyone to act accordingly, that
it's a workshop and I'd like free flowing discussion.
Item 2: Adoption of the Agenda
de Weerd: Item No. 2 is adoption of the agenda.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I move that we adopt the special meeting agenda.
Zaremba: Second.
de Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda as printed. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 3: Discussion of the City's Capital Improvement Plan
A. Develop Annual Time Frame
Prepare, Approve, Flow into Budget
Meridian City Council Special Meeting
December 14, 2010
Page 2 of 42
B. Process for Interim Changes to CIP
^ Enterprise Fund
^ General Fund
C. Review FY2011 Draft for Content
^ CIP plans already approved
^ Funding assumptions
^ Anything else to include in City-wide document?
Item 4: Approve General Fund CIP for Impact Fee Plan
de Weerd: Item 3, discussion of the city's capital improvement plan.
Kilchenmann: Thank you, everyone, for coming to this meeting. It's scheduled from
1:00 to 4:00, but we won't be here -- I don't think we will be here from 1:00 to 4:00. I
have -- kind of my main goal is just come up with the -- we have spent a lot of time, both
Enterprise and General Fund, on finally developing long-term capital improvement plans
and (unintelligible). So, what I want to do today is decide on how we're going to put this
process in the future -- in other words, how we can formalize the process in our regular
budget flow, like on an annual time where we (unintelligible) time when we meet with
you for approval and how we flow that into our regular budget. Do you know if Tom's
coming?
de Weerd: I would hope so. I don't think he wants us to --
Kilchenmann: I don't either. Should I wait for him or --
Holman: I can check.
Kilchenmann: Oh, there he is.
de Weerd: Hi, Tom.
Kilchenmann: So, Tom, we're just at the very --
de Weerd: No, you need to be at the table.
Holman: Tom can sit up here, because I have got the recording software going, so I will
just sit you right there.
Barry: Oh, right here?
Holman: I can step up if -- Tom can sit here. I will just sit over here by Todd.
Kilchenmann: So, we're just -- we're just on the first agenda item with the -- the annual
timeframe. What I'm thinking is that -- you would probably meet about this time of year,
Meridian City Council Special Meeting
December 14, 2010
Page 3 of 42
either December or January, to finalize this whole process and I have prepared this
document -- we actually have a capital improvement plan since 2005. It hasn't -- it's
had funded, but it hasn't necessary been realistic funding, so this one I think is a real
plan that we can really use and my goal is that -- although each department will develop
their plan and Enterprise has spent a great deal of time, this is very detailed, I want to
have one document that has the whole city rolled into it. We get a lot of requests for
this from (unintelligible) vendors read it and members of the public request it and I think
it's important for us to just have one document where we look at the city as a whole.
So, I'm thinking if we plan on either meeting in December or January and I'll ask for
input from the departments (unintelligible) do a final approval of this document, the
departments to work through -- and, actually, we started the last budget process in that
time frame to update this plan and prepare the new plan, but I think Enterprise Fund
would probably need -- their plan is fairly lengthy, so they might need this ahead of time
at a different meeting, but how does that kind of work for everyone? (Unintelligible).
Rountree: How does it work with the (unintelligible) the activities of the fiscal year, what
(unintelligible).
Kilchenmann: Yeah. This is year end in August.
Rountree: Yes.
Kilchenmann: And, then, we started the other budget in February. So, it kind of makes
our fall busy, but we can do it, because if we did get it -- if we had it done by December
or January, I think, then, it would flow -- people are going to start working on their
budget in February, so we would have that capital improvement part done and,
obviously, we would have to work on the capital improvement plan as directors and
departments. We discussed that earlier (unintelligible) to prepare the final document I
think that's -- that's the time frame that works for us.
Rountree: So, a rough draft in general discussion from (unintelligible).
Kilchenmann: Yes.
Rountree: (Unintelligible) maybe in January and, then, approval by the Council in
January and, then, move forward with that -- the preparation of (unintelligible).
Barry: One of the things we are going to want to consider is how the rate models tie
into this process and as you know the Council had instructed us to present the results of
the rate model generally around February or so. That could change if we want to
modify that schedule, but what we are currently doing in Public Works is updating the
CIP to incorporate into the rate remodeling and depending upon what that model says
we modify the CIP to either include additional projects, take projects off, reorganize
projects and that may have an impact on the scheduling as it relates to the publication
that you described on that particular date. Something to consider as well.
Meridian City Council Special Meeting
December 14, 2010
Page 4 of 42
Kilchenmann: (Unintelligible).
Barry: What we do is in December we update the summary CIP and plug it into the rate
model and the rate modeling occurs in January and February and, then, usually late
February or March we give that presentation. Depending upon what the Council
decides as it relates to rates, if they want us to be more aggressive with capital
improvement, less aggressive, or whatever and how that impacts what the rate might
look like, that process could take another couple of months. So, not to drag it out, but
realistically, you know, you want to coincide it with the budget process, which you guys
start in February anyway. So, it may be that Public Works needs to modify and backup
a little further the CIP -- our portion of the project, but, you know, I would say we
probably are in alignment pretty closely with what you guys are suggesting, I just didn't
want that to get forgotten.
Kilchenmann: Okay. Yeah, I will (unintelligible) that might be something we can
(unintelligible).
Lavey: Well, for us it doesn't affect us too much unless we have some sort of major
project that we're working on. So, mostly in our capital improvement you will see the
cars and so we need limited amount of time to prepare for February, it's pretty -- or
pretty evident that we do. For those occasions when we have a major project that we
would be a longer time frame -- but I think we can make it work. I believe that Tom
(intelligible) is going to be more impacted than the police.
Kilchenmann: I know we worked on the General Fund (unintelligible) last spring. It
wouldn't be that we would just start one working on it (unintelligible) we would have to
start working on it (unintelligible).
Barry: For me it would be really important to have that new look at the CIP finalized by
January, so that as we start into the budget in February we have fresh direction and
know what we're doing in terms of capital improvements, so (unintelligible).
Rountree: So, some of the longer more difficult projects (unintelligible) Public Works
maybe start your rate modeling and your project development for the CIP the second
quarter -- or start in the second quarter (unintelligible) start again about October, so you
can have something fairly well flushed out by December. We can workshop that and
(unintelligible) have it cast in stone in February when they're starting (unintelligible) on
the budget.
Barry: That would work well and Ithink -- if we can just get that on a calendar -- and if
you guys can put that on a calendar so all the departments know what -- kind of like you
do with the budget calendar, but with the CIP, then, that would be very helpful and we
can also get a target (unintelligible).
Rountree: It seems to me that those are kind of one and the same (unintelligible).
Meridian City Council Special Meeting
December 14, 2010
Page 5 of 42
de Weerd: You do and normally a lot of the heavy lifting has already been done. So, it
will help streamline that.
Kilchenmann: We will be -- I mean we work on it all -- all along (unintelligible) and the
funding was kind of being (unintelligible) Ican do the final on the funding because it will
hit year end and so I will have that here (unintelligible) updated if I need (unintelligible)
and we just roll that into (unintelligible) and keep rolling along all the time.
Zaremba: The department CIP I have got some -- it's usually with the five year plan and
maybe even five years of how it fits into the 2020 plan or 2030 plan.
Kilchenmann: Yes.
Zaremba: When as the last couple of years the few capital projects that we know have
to be done eventually (unintelligible) how are those accounted for in -- someday the
roosters are going to come home to roost or the chickens are going to come home to
roost in capital projects and some departments are going to have (unintelligible) is that
carried forward or is it up to each department head to say, well, remember last year
(unintelligible).
Kilchenmann: We're using a more (unintelligible).
Zaremba: (Unintelligible).
Kilchenmann: That's item number two on the (unintelligible).
Zaremba: Okay. I'm sorry.
Kilchenmann: If we all agreed on the calendar and the dates and -- and I know it does
create additional work for everyone, because now (unintelligible) our budget process
and making it bigger and we're including this longer term planning, but I think, you know,
in the end (unintelligible) it will shorten the preparation for the operational budget,
because we will have already done the capital part. So, then, the (unintelligible) part is
how do we (unintelligible) changes. Obviously, we are not that good that we can come
up with a ten year plan that, you know, this is exactly what (unintelligible) and so forth
and I almost think with us that the problem will be more that we were more
conservative, you know, and maybe we have more funds that we can do something that
we dropped out of the long-term plan. So, the next question is how do we change the
CIP. How do we change it within ayear -- you know, if -- like you said, there could be
something that (unintelligible) and that's kind of a no brainer. I mean the CIP -- the
police vehicles and fire vehicles, it's a pretty large capital construction project, unless
the wastewater treatment plant blows up, which we couldn't pay for anyway. You know,
it probably wouldn't be something that's (unintelligible) more of an opportunity that came
up or like we decided -- we said we were going to do Well 27, but we discovered that it
makes a lot more sense to do Well 29 or we got some extra money or something and
we decided we could -- we had something in year four that we wanted to move into year
Meridian City Council Special Meeting
December 14, 2010
Page 6 of 42
three. So, I think we need to kind of -- I mean there is not going to be any black and
white, we will be able to handle everything, but if we can come up with some kind of
process on how -- how we change aplan -- on the other hand, we don't want to change
the plan ten minutes after we do it. (Unintelligible) expensive process to go into the plan
and it is kind of a guiding document, it's not a rolling one, changing all the time. So, I
think that's one of the biggest parts of our discussion that we need to have.
Zaremba: My question would be and what do the directors -- you know, they are --
Rountree: Well, I'm just speculating, but, you know, there is several scenarios. One is
you have something on the plan for the current fiscal year and you can't afford it or you
have several things in the current fiscal year that not only can you afford all of them, but
you can afford a few more, or you get a windfall via a grant or something and you can
accelerate that or --
de Weerd: Or a partnership.
Rountree: -- or a partnership or whatever. So, when you start dissecting those
(unintelligible) it's all about funding and the funding is all going to have to (unintelligible)
budget amendment. So, it seems to me (unintelligible). So, the budget amendment
process that relates to a capital improvement would also have the capital improvement
plan modification that would either bring forward, slip and apply to the new fiscal year
and because if it's a capital improvement bonus that the partnership -- that wasn't in the
plan anyway (unintelligible) decide we need another ladder truck and they are going to
-- and they are going to pay 75 -- or 76 percent of what --
de Weerd: As part of their development that --
Rountree: Yeah. Yeah. As part of their development, then, we would add it. So, a
process that would combine those two, that way (unintelligible) closer in time. You have
the discussion about why is it wise to do Well 28 instead of Well 27. And, oh, by the
way, 28 still needs to be done, but because of moving it it can go into fiscal year X, Y or
Z.
Kilchenmann: Okay. That would be good. So, then when people -- when there were
amendments to the capital projects, in addition to having to show how it impacts the
budget, we would also (unintelligible).
Rountree: So, when Steve gets an extra 40,000 dollars (unintelligible) budget
amendment and doesn't have a project that (unintelligible) Idon't have to get grumpy.
de Weerd: You will just find something else.
Siddoway: (Unintelligible) CIP modification as well.
Meridian City Council Special Meeting
December 14, 2010
Page 7 of 42
Rountree: Yeah. And the value of those two are discussed and you either do or don't
do it.
Siddoway: Yeah.
de Weerd: Well, I think there's going to be, too, some kind of business -- a business
case evaluation done by finance in terms of programming viability and those kind of
things, that it should have certain benchmarks that it needs or performance indicators to
even get to that point.
Rountree: To me that (unintelligible) relates to the process (unintelligible) very much
into it.
Siddoway: And for those ones that we know are changing, let's say, for example, right
now the Borup property is scheduled for construction documents in 2013 and -- and
construction starting in 2014. We get to 2012 and we are like there's no way this is
needing to happen in one or two years -- those kinds of changes that we see coming
can be part of that annual process, right? Yeah.
Bird: That's what it's for.
Kilchenmann: Or somebody get a big donation and (unintelligible) you know, I will pay
for you to develop Borup park if you will do that before (unintelligible).
Siddoway: And we -- yeah. If it's urgent we do it as part of the CIP mod and budget
amendment or we build it into the annual process if it's not that urgent.
Kilchenmann: Exactly.
Siddoway: Uh-huh.
Nary: Same thing -- we had taken out the fiber last year with IT to rework that. So, that
would be something we'd bring at the annual -- bring back the new proposal and how
we would do that. That makes sense.
Bird: That would be an ongoing CIP, wouldn't it?
Zaremba: On that (unintelligible) if you start aproject -- capital project that you know is
going to take three years to complete, my memory is that, okay, it gets in the budget for
the first year, the second year it's still treated like an enhancement, even though you
knew the first year it was going to (unintelligible). Is that the way we're processing these
things?
Kilchenmann: That's the way we have done it, because, for example, (unintelligible),
you know, like Settlers Park (unintelligible) we wouldn't have had enough money to
budget that in one year. So, we budgeted like (unintelligible) so the capital
Meridian City Council Special Meeting
December 14, 2010
Page 8 of 42
improvement plan is exactly the same for like he has -- for his big park still has
(unintelligible) construction documents (unintelligible) you do the same thing, because
we certainly don't have the money to budget the whole thing in one year. So, we just
budget it in stages (unintelligible).
Zaremba: Well, I just want to make sure that it -- that calling it an enhancement doesn't
risk it being penalized the second or third year or for not happening in the second and
third year.
Kilchenmann: That's pretty much a goal for (unintelligible) the next five years and we
actually have tens years in (unintelligible). So, it's kind of like we are studying
(unintelligible) and, you know, yeah, we could (unintelligible) Imean just because we
don't have the (unintelligible) we all sat down and we go, well, we can't fund this part
this year or next year, so let's prioritize and put it into the year after that and not drop it.
It gives you a little more control over the monitoring.
de Weerd: And it really looks at phasing, David, so that Council will take serious
consideration and I think, again, the business case evaluation needs to happen first, but
as you, then, launch into that you know it's a phased program and even after year two
you may not be able to afford phase three, but you postpone it a year, then, everything
else shifts and that's all part of the process in priority.
Bird: But there is -- and in the Enterprise Fund more than anybody else there is projects
that you'll find the money for this year, bid, and it will be two years or so before you
finalize it.
de Weerd: Oh, yes.
Bird: So, there is a lot of difference in what you're talking about and those kind of
projects you can't phase.
Siddoway: Exactly.
Bird: I mean you start it you got to finish it.
de Weerd: Uh-huh.
Bird: It's like a maintenance building for the Parks, you put walls on it, but you're not
going to --
Zaremba: You say, no, we are not going to put the roof on.
Bird: Yeah. No, we can't afford the roof. That's what I wanted to make clear is there is
a difference between -- in projects. Some you can phase and some you can't phase,
but you carry the money over. You budget for it, like when -- if Tom signed a contract
Meridian City Council Special Meeting
December 14, 2010
Page 9 of 42
for 20 million with somebody, they expect that 20 million to be there and we have
budgeted that 20 million. Now, it might take five years --
Zaremba: But the second year it's a carry over --
Bird: -- for them to spend it, but it's budgeted that one year.
Barry: Yeah. This is getting back to the basics of just-in-time capital project financing
and what you're saying, Keith, has a lot of validity, but -- and I have seen in the review
of the budgets of the past and the carry forward and those things, is we have really
strapped our financing flexibilities by tying up those large sums of money at the
beginning of a three or four year project and not been able to do a whole lot, because
we carry that forward money -- carry forward that money every single year, as opposed
to leverage other projects that could be utilizing funds, which is why I think an important
component to the Council's discussion around CIP has a lot to do with relating a multi-
year CIP to a one year annual budget, because we have to have a mechanism to utilize
the funding and maximize that funding to finance a variety of different projects in a
single year, as opposed to tie it all up in one project that you know you're not going to
spend 20 million dollars in that particular year to finish. The way our contracts are
written -- and, Bill, you can correct me if I'm wrong -- is that we -- we can -- not that we
would want to, but we can stop a project at anytime and we would have to pay for the
work done up to that date and time.
Kilchenmann: (Unintelligible) where you go in (unintelligible).
Bird: (Unintelligible).
Barry: (Unintelligible).
Bird: -- you're mobilizing and all this kind of stuff.
Barry: Right. But if the Council decided that they didn't want to move forward -- let's
say we have gotten a 15 million dollar anaerobic digestion expansion and the Council
said, yes, we want to move forward with the project, you know, get to it, if we put that
whole 15 million dollars in that first year budget, then, I can't work on anything else. I
have no money available for any other projects and all I get to do is watch that 15
million dollars get three million spent the first year, carry forward 12 million and then --
Kilchenmann: See, that's what's good about (unintelligible) because you have -- if you
tell them, no, I don't (unintelligible) 15 million dollar project, but Idon't -- obviously not
going to finish it in one year and now he wants me to budget three million, they -- they
don't have that comfort level on a one year (unintelligible) if you're going to have 15
million. If you don't -- if you don't budget it all now are you going to have that or is it
going to be in the middle of a project (unintelligible). This gives an opportunity to kind of
project our funding and say, yes, we can fund it year one, we can fund it (unintelligible)
year three.
Meridian City Council Special Meeting
December 14, 2010
Page 10 of 42
Barry: That's why Public Works is very supportive of having amulti-year CIP that
Council gets to review and approve and we finance it on an annual basis and the
Council could always say, you know what, that project doesn't make anymore sense to
us, we want to pull back. Now, it's just like whether you finance the full amount at the
very beginning or you financed it as you went, the result is the same, you're stopping a
project in the middle of its construction and, you know, those are things that we need to
get comfortable with is the opportunity of leveraging our money better over -- you know,
because we pay for what we -- we pay as you go. So, strapping all that money right into
a budget initially to do one project and not having anything else that we could finance in
that year, potentially, is problematic for us.
de Weerd: But, Tom, haven't you resolved some of that in your modeling process?
Barry: Right. The modeling ties with (unintelligible).
de Weerd: So -- and the rate.
Barry: Exactly.
de Weerd: So --
Barry: So, the modeling, the rate, and the CIP are all done in Public Works right now
over a five year one spectrum, so we can tell you, yes, we can afford this project. It
might be a 20 million dollar project, but we are not going to finance it until 2013 and it's
going to be the next three years, we are saving up between now and 2013 and, then,
we can finance the first part in 2013 and, then, 14 and, then, 15 and we can give you
that as a tool, which you have never been able -- you have not had it until we started
this modeling process. The connection here is getting the Council comfortable with
saying, okay, we know it's going to cost this amount over three years and we
understand that that's the scope and cost of the project, but we are only entering into
this first year of the budget at this amount, but knowing that there is more to come,
which is why we have tried to work with finance to make sure that the project description
sheets are clear that this is not aone-time commitment to a particular project, it's a
multi-year project.
Bird: Bill?
Nary: Yes, sir.
Bird: Our contracts -- when our bid -- jobs are bid and the contracts are written up, it's
for the full amount of the project, isn`t it?
Nary: Well, it depends on the project. I mean what Tom's talking about is --
Bird: I mean if it's a building.
Meridian City Council Special Meeting
December 14, 2010
Page 11 of 42
Nary: The annual appropriations clause is what you're talking about. It's section three
that we were always talking about in the city's is what you're financing and you're
financing things on a multi-year basis, so, beyond one budget year. (Unintelligible) the
way the current Supreme Court has ruled, our contracts need to reflect the annual
(unintelligible) the annual appropriation we can cancel this agreement.
de Weerd: Anticipated revenue.
Bird: I understand -- I understand the --
Nary: So, what Tom is saying is --
Bird: The actual contract you're writing, if the job was bid for a hundred dollars, the
contract's for a hundred dollars.
Nary: Right.
Bird: Now, it might take you three years to do that hundred dollar job.
Nary: Right. As long as the contract reflects whatever the one -- and the bid reflects
that, I don't see a problem with that. I mean I guess to me --
Bird: But if you're doing this in increments, and, then hundred dollars is not being
covered, so, you know, the Council next year might change and say we're done.
Nary: Right. And if your contract should reflect an annual appropriation --
Bird: I know you can get out of it.
Nary: (Unintelligible) appropriations, because that -- what Tom is saying you may make
(unintelligible) Council make a decision to delay that project. Now, there may be
penalties and costs to do that and that's just part of the analysis, but that's what your
contract would reflect. I mean it's not a contractual problem, it is more of a political
discussion and I think Charlie is the one that brought it up at first, that's part of all your
discussion. This is a multi-year contract, this is a multi-year phased project, you know,
like you said, Keith, a lot of parks projects can be phased by their very nature. You
build one thing and, then, you build another, you don't build -- you don't build first home
base and the next you go second base and third base. I mean you build a baseball field
and, then, you build another one. But, you know, like you said, that there are many
Public Works ones that are multi-year from the outset, but all Tom is saying is he wants
to structure it more so they aren't just --
Bird: He wants to phase the budgeting
Nary: Right. He wants to --
Meridian City Council Special Meeting
December 14, 2010
Page 12 of 42
Bird: So that he has more money for the next year's budget for other jobs.
Nary: He wants them to be the same. So, although this is a nine million dollar project
at the treatment plant, the part you're approving is three million dollars for this year and
next year you can consider whether or not to continue with the project and their
recommendation maybe a hundred percent, yes, you need to continue it. Yes, the
revenue exists. Yes, it's still vitally important. And the Council may agree with that. All
he's saying is he wants to give you folks the flexibility instead of saying let's budget nine
million dollars up front and now I can't do anything else, because until we spend that
nine million down to zero and you don't have any other funds.
de Weerd: Well, you're not only looking at it year by year, you will see in that five, ten
year plan you're going to see how those different steps involve, so --
Bird: And I understand the steps. I have a problem with not budgeting for the amount
of the contract for one year. I don't know where it's done in private practice -- if I'm
building a building and I go get a loan, I'll guarantee you I can't go to the bank and say I
want 300,000 this year, I want 300,000 next year, I want 300,000 the following year and
go get a contractor that will sign a 900,000 dollar contract with me.
Kilchenmann: (Unintelligible) in the General Fund you wouldn't do that for a building.
Like when we did the maintenance shop we're not going to -- it might go over two years,
but we are going to budget all the (unintelligible).
Bird: You're talking about the same thing.
Kilchenmann: (Unintelligible) you probably wouldn't have -- I mean if you had work that
you knew could be done in one year, it would probably be (unintelligible) like the
wastewater treatment plant was (unintelligible) stages of the contract.
Barry: Yeah. Mr. Bird, what you're talking about is like a line of credit, which is done all
the time in private practice. Lines of credit are always --
Bird: Oh, well, yeah.
Barry: That's what we were talking about doing before the public side here. It's no
different, really, from a financing standpoint. The scenario that you're concerned about
could be exactly the same regardless of how you finance it. Yet the Council that initially
comes in and says, yes, we like this four year project, yes, it's 20 million and we want
you to finance the full amount this year and go and start building it over the next four.
And, then, in two years from now (unintelligible) halfway through the project and a new
Council says, you know what, we hate that project. It stinks. We don't like it. Cancel it.
You're not going to a carry forward any further. That scenario is no different than a
Council initially who comes in and says we like the project (unintelligible) we are going
to give you the first year this year, next year we will come back, we are going to give
Meridian City Council Special Meeting
December 14, 2010
Page 13 of 42
you the second year and, then, you get a new Council that says, you know what, the
project stinks, we don't want you to do it. Don't do it anymore. The scenarios are
exactly the same. The financing is a little bit different. Our contracts only obligate us to
pay, so far as Iknow -- Mr. Nary can correct me if I'm wrong -- for work that's done. We
can cancel them at anytime. As a matter fact, I canceled one last week on a project in
Bittercreek at the direction of City Council, so --
Bird: And it costs -- and it costs you extra money.
Barry: It only costs us and we are only obligated to pay what they have out of pocket.
So, in some cases what you're talking about is demobilization. That can be an added
expense. But on the last part, you know, these mobilizations -- we are talking maybe
five to fifteen thousand dollars, depending upon the project. If you're talking about a 20
million dollar project that the Council doesn't want to move forward on, that's small
change. So, yeah, there could be some additional cost. I think you're right about that.
There could be some additional costs to cancel that contract. But those costs would be,
in my estimation, far insignificant compared to the potential total cost of the project.
Zaremba: The distinction to me is apparently the way we're doing it, we're taking that
whole 20 million dollars and putting in on the shelf.
Barry: Right.
Zaremba: And you actually got to the question I was trying to ask. You put it much
better than I did, but that means that that 20 million dollars, even though we know we're
only going to spend a quarter of it next year, a quarter of it the year after, a quarter of it
a year after that, that's 20 million dollars out of this year's budget that's sitting on the
shelf and we could have used 15 million of it --
Kilchenmann: Usually those projects have a fund balance (unintelligible) this year we're
going to earn five million in revenue, all that five million is going to go for aproject --
those big projects (unintelligible).
Barry: But now something to consider, because in the past -- and what I'm talking about
is recent past, you know, 2003 to maybe 2006, our fund balance in Public Works got
very large, as you know, and we were approaching 50 million dollars. So, it wasn't a
problem to say we're going to take ten million and put it to this and five million and put it
to that, and four million to this and another ten million to that. We had the money. But
as you know we are trying to finance our future capital investments along by keeping --
along with keeping (unintelligible) in check and doing it a little bit more now without the
benefit of having this large fund to balance, so we are going to have to budget against
revenues. If we make five million in revenues or eight million in revenues, we are going
to have to meter out the expenses that start to align with those revenues, because the
days of having large ending fund balances and using those monies to, then, finance
these other capital projects are starting to go away. I mean you have seen that in the
Meridian City Council Special Meeting
December 14, 2010
Page 14 of 42
last two to three years, which is why we have had to modify rates and is why we really
started to back off on the capital spending also. So, what we are having to do --
Zaremba: We were, essentially, borrowing for ourselves.
Barry: Exactly right. And now we are in a position to where we don't have those kinds
of fund balances or we soon will not have those types of fund balances that will allow us
to participate in that kind of a practice and requires a change in the way we finance and
this is -- you know, I have managed capital project funds for a long time and what I'm
describing here is very common and I think Mr. Rountree had mentioned this, too, with
the state. So, I know it can be an uncomfortable position to be in, but I think the comfort
we want to gain has a lot to do with tying a five year approval process to the budgeting
process and making sure that everyone is clear with the length of the project, with the
scope and what the cost of that project is and then -- and, then, how do we agree to
finance that on an annual basis going forward.
Rountree: That's where the revenues --
Zaremba: I was going to say there is more expertise on (unintelligible).
Hoaglun: I was just thinking and that's where the modeling and the revenue stream
used to be crucial, because, you know, you take the private business scenario and they
go to a bank and they set up a line of credit for ten million dollars and they start the
project and they know they are only going to need a million or two in the first year and
they see an opportunity for another project, well, we got eight million left, we go do that,
that works and they start another project (unintelligible) part way finished, they have to
rely on the bank to keep extending that line of credit to finish project number one. If the
bank says, like some have said here recently, sorry, no more, we are in that same boat,
we have to be absolutely certain that revenue coming in we do not exceed, we don't go
beyond -- you know, that's where the hesitancy is that -- that can be tough to model
sometimes. I mean that revenue is -- we have got some stability, but to go out there
and start several projects and say, well, we think this is where it's going to be, there are
communities across the nation that have gotten in serious trouble doing that, too. So, if
we go that way -- and that's what (unintelligible) it will be very conservative.
Barry: And, as you know, just -- not to interrupt, but as you know we have about 13
million dollars in reserves right now, which we never had before formally and those
reserves also can cover some of those emergency or operational contingencies that
you're referring to, Brad.
Bird: In the scenario that Brad give is the reason -- a whole bunch -- probably 75
percent of the developers and construction people are down right now, because the
simple fact is they robbed Peter to pay Paul.
Nary: I was going to say isn't that part of your dialogue up front -- I mean the part -- I
guess you haven't touched on, but there are -- there may be business reasons that you
Meridian City Council Special Meeting
December 14, 2010
Page 15 of 42
as a Council my decide -- and that's part of your discussion with Public Works is can we
get a better price if we do commit the funds now. This is a 20 million dollar project and
if we do -- and we do it for over a five year period, but they will do it for 15 million if we
will bid it out now and commit the funds now and we can save a lot, versus trying to do it
annually. That's again, part of your folks decision point on do we commit all the funds
now. We are still -- we either commit all the funds -- and that sounds like a competition
requirement, or we have the annual appropriation clause that satisfies that. So, the
legal side that's not a problem, but to give you folks that flexibility to say on a larger
project you may get abetter --abetter price at a particular point in time if you can bid it
all out at once and there is other ones you may not.
Kilchenmann: Or you may feel -- you know, you have this (unintelligible) the five year
plan and Tom might have a project that's say only ten million and everybody feels really
comfortable that, you know, we know we will have five million to do the -- or you might
have some other projects that you don't feel comfortable, because the economy being
more uncertain and so you say if we are going to start this project this year we want to
budget the -- you know, we want to do the entire budget and your plan will probably be
more realistic as, yeah, we will start this in year one, two or three, whereas a lot of the
older things that are left in the Enterprise Fund will just, you know, zero out there a
number just as something --
Barry: I guess two comments on that is, you know, when we enter a contract, that
contract is for that bid price and just because you finance it over one or two or three
years you're still locked in at that bid price. So there is a concern about what that bid
price is and somebody thinks that they have a crystal ball and next year's bid prices are
going to be 20 percent lower, let's just hold off and bid it next year and, then, enter into
the contract at that point and then - so, we are talking about apples and oranges here.
We are talking, one, about entering into a contract after the bid and another one is
financing.
Kilchenmann: I think they are worried about you -- like starting phase one of a big
project and, then, not having enough money to finish it.
Barry: Well, yeah, and I think Brad hit on it and some of the other Council members.
That's one of the models. I mean we do -- we are in a -- pretty stable for the moment in
our financing situation. I mean a utility is generally one of the more stable. It doesn't
mean it's super stable, but certainly there is a periodic and stable revenue that's coming
in constantly to the utility and model that. We have modeled it for the last three years,
we are going to continue to model it as we go. So, we have that kind of certainty, along
with the reserves we have talked about in the event we need contingencies. The other
thing I think that's important to note about Public Works projects is that we really are
phasing these projects, whether you consider them as sort of a component of a project.
The way we phase these projects is we do what's called preliminary design, easement
acquisition, permits, those kinds of things and, then, we will do -- and that will be usually
a separate project. And we have another project which is final design, okay? And we
have another project which is construction -- or phase I should say. They are all part of
Meridian City Council Special Meeting
December 14, 2010
Page 16 of 42
same project, but they could have multiple contracts. You have seen how many
contracts we run through the City Council on the same project. We can sometimes
have ten or 15 or more different contracts on a single project and each one of those
contracts, as they come through the City Council, has an opportunity for the Council to
comment or deny if they don't want the project to move forward. So, in that respect we
are in some ways, you know, phasing out those components of the project.
Kilchenmann: Well, I think this process will address all of those (unintelligible) for each
side and, you know, we haven't really -- and this was kind of our first year at it, so we
haven't -- we are going to change, but -- I was going to throw a pencil at you, but we are
going to change our capital budget -- enhancement the form so that they show multiple
years as a project and (unintelligible). So, the final -- the final step of this is just to
briefly talk about the draft and I'm not going to make you go through all 36 pages of the
draft --
de Weerd: Can I -- can I just make a request on those forms -- and I know that Tom
and his staff have been trying to -- to better show the project in totality and where it is,
but it's almost an attachment to the enhancement sheet that shows where you have
been, where you're going, and the year you're in. And I think that's going to help a lot,
Keith, in what your concern is in just keeping the big picture in front of everyone.
Rountree: I think (unintelligible) but with the caveat, one, you have to have a financial
system that can track -- that kind of a financial system that can -- whether you call it
model or project or whatever (unintelligible) and I think we have all three, particularly in
the Enterprise Fund and the utility aspect of it. The only other sideboard I would
suggest is that the fiscal constraint -- and that's what Keith is worried about is we don't
get carried away and sell our soul to the devil, that we have some balance between
what we have obligated in terms of a project, what we have projected in terms of
revenues, and a comfortable bump that is comfortable to the financial people and to the
elected officials that in case things get topsy turvy we have got some cushion. In other
words, we don't leverage everything. Leverage is good, but we don't -- we are not in a
position where we can mortgage our future. So, to me the control rests with the
financial department in terms of what our projected revenues are and what our
obligations are for a period of time, what our payouts are for a period of time and what
our reserves are. So, somewhere there needs to be some kind of a formula developed
or a model, per se, in your shop that -- that can say, okay, we have leveraged 75
percent say of our projected revenues for the next five years. Do we want to move
anymore projects out beyond that boundary? I don't know if 75 percent is a good
number or number (unintelligible). I know we get around 85 to 88 percent in
transportation. Always had money in the bank. Always had money in the bank.
Because of the revenue stream. But just -- you have to have that comfort level.
(Unintelligible). It`s not quite as high as you might find (unintelligible). So, whenever
that magic number is that's something we need to talk about and you're. comfortable
with and, then, setting up sideboards and move on and quit worrying about it.
Meridian City Council Special Meeting
December 14, 2010
Page 17 of 42
Kilchenmann: Well, in this document it might be kind of beginning of what you're talking
about. Basically as a capital improvement document when (unintelligible) police
department looking at their capital infrastructure one thing that (unintelligible) then it
has the funding and the -- and what the plan actually is the funding I (unintelligible).
Zaremba: On my behalf I don't remember that.
Kilchenmann: Yeah. The other thing it -- it goes along with the capital plan, as well as
operating, and that's kind of where our challenge is I think. Not so much for you,
probably, .but more for the General Fund, because when we do capital projects it can
mean a big increase in operating (unintelligible) for example fire stations. So, I have
included those in here. I did only a three percent base increase from both departments
and you take that 1.1 million of General Fund off, so I included that in the end of year's
projections. So, that was saying if nothing changed, you know, we just -- we just stay
where we are, except we add a fire station, except if we added a fire engine, except if
we added a park. The other departments wouldn't really need to grow or expand and if
all the revenue stayed basically like it is, with a very slight increase, this is where we
would be and so the assumption is that if building took off, population started to grow
like wild, we needed to add (unintelligible) that our revenue stream would move with this
and, then, we would redo that. This is how this first -- the first blush of the document is
done and it does look at some bounds of what it takes out, your reserves, takes out our
reserve -- by the time I finish this (unintelligible) General Fund that we didn't decrease
the General Fund and (unintelligible) what the balance was last year. So, that's,
basically, how this document is done. So, then, when we get (unintelligible) finally
getting around to finishing it, then, the new projections are taking the impact and the
whole document is updated and so when you look at this, then, you will -- and you're not
only (unintelligible) capital improvement plan, you will be looking at the funding for
(unintelligible). So, if -- if there is anything anyone wants to add in here or anything you
want to -- you think should be different or taken out, you know, read it, let me know. I'd
kind of like to try and finalize it and at least get this one out there, but at least, you know,
that we have continued this process and, then, we can start working on the next one
before you know it.
Bird: I think this is a very, very good (unintelligible).
Kilchenmann: (Unintelligible).
Bird: (Unintelligible) something that gives us something to work and while Tom and I
will argue all the time I think (unintelligible). The one thing that I think this Council --
Mayor and Council has been very good to -- and this is for the directors -- is we have --
we have not laid off anybody. We give you raises all the time. In fact, I had a
discussion yesterday with the county commissioners, with Sharon and Rick, that they
haven't give a raise for three years and I told them just exactly how we feel. Our
employees are our number one asset. I can do without a new car or new computer or
something, but that employee -- regardless of what Washington tells you, there is
inflation. Go to the grocery store, all of you, especially you with families (unintelligible).
Meridian City Council Special Meeting
December 14, 2010
Page 18 of 42
So, I think the -- I think this is a real step up. What I read in there I didn't see anything
that was -- that wouldn't help the -- definitely help the (unintelligible) elected officials.
Kilchenmann: I think, you know (unintelligible) we do have a ten year plan for the
General Fund. We don't have a second five years and year by year, because the
(unintelligible).
Zaremba: It's just guess work at that point.
Kilchenmann: Oh. Well, the first one is (unintelligible).
Siddoway: Do we have a lump amount for (unintelligible).
Kilchenmann: We do have a lump amount, though, so --
Bird: I think that five years is --
Kilchenmann: Yeah. It's hard.
Bird: I think it's hard to go -- these people are projecting out to 2030 and stuff -- no idea.
I mean our projections in 2005 would have been a lot different than they were in 2010.
Kilchenmann: Yeah. We could probably get the second ten years if we wanted it set
like, okay, that's where we are moving towards, kind of set our priorities, and if we do
get a windfall, then, we will (unintelligible).
Zaremba: The only alternate I would say to that is the experience that the Japanese
had after World War II. They said that every company make a one hundred year plan
and break that plan into 50 year plans and 25 year plans and three year plans and you
only have the details for the next five years, but you need to know what the hundred
year goal is and they are kicking our butts.
Bird: But the private industries have the advantage, because as a private individual I
can go out and earn the revenue I want to earn. We are stuck with what taxes and what
the growth is. Now, if I -- you know, if I'm in the glass business, you go out there and
bust your rear and get all the jobs. That brings your revenue in. Now, we had
projections, too, but sometimes they don't live up to it. But, you're right, Japan did a
great job on that. I didn't know it was a hundred year, I thought it was 50 year.
Kilchenmann: One thing in here I did put in the two percent allowable property tax.
Should we decide not to take it in the future that has a pretty big impact. So, that's
something that you will need to think about and Iknow Idid -- and I can rescind that.
It's never too early to plan for next year as well. The impact has never taken -- never
adding back the 500,000 and the impact is what happens when you add it back. So,
can rescind that. I will wait until after Christmas.
Meridian City Council Special Meeting
December 14, 2010
Page 19 of 42
Barry: I think that's what's important with the Enterprise Fund, too, is the way we put
our capital plan together going forward, as you know that we had -- what I was saying is
that we develop our capital plans based on current funding levels, so we don't build in
rate increases as we do that. We are conservative. So, if we were -- if we were or
needed a rate increase that would add revenue, but we wouldn't have to take anything
away from our proposed capital plan, because it's based on establishment revenue.
Kilchenmann: Yeah. And there is no rate increase (unintelligible). The final thing will
you explained as how the impact of fee (unintelligible).
Nary: Yeah. One thing before you leave C is that I think when Stacy finalizes the draft
and you're all comfortable with it, it probably would make some sense to do a resolution
adopting that, so that way there is some point in time that you can point to annually that
we adopt something. I mean, obviously, you're not statutorily required to do that, but I
think from a tracking thing -- I mean we constantly are looking backwards and trying to
figure out -- and trying to save the clerk's office a little time, too, trying to figure out when
we actually did something or approve something and the resolution process would
probably make some sense, as long as you're all comfortable with that, but that way at
least there is some way to go back and look and see when did you approve that and
annually you can come back and revisit that.
Kilchenmann: (Unintelligible) to develop the impact fee.
Nary: Right. And the impact fee -- the impact fee, as all of you know, has a statutory
specific process you have to follow to adopt that, so that one needs to go through the
impact fee committee and so that's really the next phase. I think -- it hasn't been
evaluated for a couple of years based on the lack of growth that we have had and so we
need to look at what's been done -- like I think the ladder truck was part of it initially
think, if I recall. And I don't know if Station Five was a part of it. It may have been.
don't recall. So, we need to have the impact fee (unintelligible). I think they have met
only once -- was that August? July? Recently. Yeah. And so we need to -- we need to
have that group come back, evaluate the CIP, take out the things that have either been
accomplished or reprioritize and, then, bring a recommendation back to you.
Kilchenmann: (Unintelligible).
Nary: Right. You have to deal with all the service level stuff and things like that.
Zaremba: If we are formalizing the CIP in the January, February, area should the
impact fee committee act sooner?
Nary: They could meet simultaneously. I mean they could certainly meet in January
and go through the same -- because they may need to meet more than once as well.
So, they may determine that, how often they want to meet to figure out what they need
to, but this time frame is probably appropriate for them, too.
Meridian City Council Special Meeting
December 14, 2010
Page 20 of 42
Canning: But their items need to be part of an adopted CIP. Isn't that part of the reason
for the resolution? Because they already have to be in an adopted CIP.
Kilchenmann: They don't -- they generally don't -- I guess we haven't really changed --
well, we haven't changed it (unintelligible).
Nary: Since we did the consulting part of it.
Kilchenmann: So, we don't do the whole plan (unintelligible).
Bird: (Unintelligible) statutorily you have to look at those. How often --
Nary: You still have to update them.
Bird: We haven't updated it.
Kilchenmann: We haven't updated this, but we just have to provide them updates on
(unintelligible).
Zaremba: The thing I think about the impact fees is it's similar to whether or not you
take the three percent property tax (unintelligible). There is a compounding factor to
them. I know on a couple of the impact fees a couple years ago we were taking less
than we could have and I don't believe that we still are, but I think we still are.
de Weerd: We still are.
Zaremba: Still are? But that compounds over the years. We can't just raise up to the
maximum and recover what we didn't take in the last three years, so I would just as
soon have the committee meet often and sooner and -- and reconsider that.
Kilchenmann: Well, they don't change -- (unintelligible) what changes are really
mathematical driven, because it's a combination of (unintelligible) what we calculate the
service level is, what our capital improvement plan is, but the fee itself is driven by
(unintelligible).
Zaremba: But, then, all that's divided by the current level of service.
Kilchenmann: Yeah. Those -- they don't change a lot from year to year. But what did
happen -- I don't know what the maximum fee will be when we (unintelligible), but
mean we have tried to convince them (unintelligible). So, we do meet -- I know we do.
We do have to meet every year and so we try --
Nary: But the (unintelligible) recovery issue I think is what David is alluding to, is that --
there is a discussion at a point mathematically that you come up with what is your full
cost that you can recover, a percentage that your growth is supposed to pay for and
part of that has an inflationary factor as well. The committee initially four years ago
Meridian City Council Special Meeting
December 14, 2010
Page 21 of 42
recommended less than the full cost of recovery and the Council approved less than
that. And, then, annually we haven't added -- except -- well, except I think for police and
fire, but not for Parks.
Lavey: Well, to compound that issue with the police department is that when we
discussed impact fees there was too large (unintelligible) as part of that impact fee
discussion and one was the range, indoor (unintelligible) and the other one was the
(unintelligible). The other thing is the building discussion. So, you have two additional
large items that are expensive, plus you have not taken the full amount, was -- this is
what they recommended and this is what we took, so you have that gap, plus the gap
that is two other additional projects. So, when we calculated based on even the -- the
old population figures it's a significant hit and with the state of the economy and
everything else, it wasn't very popular and it was not a very fun meeting in July or
August, whenever it was. So, I don't look forward to having another one, but we have
to. So, it's -- it's going to be a part of the electives, but it's going to -- it's going to be
contentious and we just have to discuss what's the best for the city in what we do. The
other thing is that when we had that meeting that there was a lot of people that -- that
either had no interest in being in it anymore or they didn't show up or whatever else,
so --
Kilchenmann: (Unintelligible).
Lavey: And they are all committed and they will be there.
Kilchenmann: I can't promise that.
Lavey: Well, but I mean they said they will.
Kilchenmann: They said that they were interested --
Lavey: Because that's the other thing is that we were so -- we were lacking in
participation at that last meeting, so --
Kilchenmann: Yeah. We had (unintelligible).
Zaremba: Can we swap that committee with the dog park committee people?
Siddoway: It terms of timing, do we need the impact fee committee's input prior to
financing our annual CIP changes?
Kilchenmann: Not this one. Not this one. This is ours at the city and what we need to
do is --
Siddoway: So, this is done prior to what they need to do?
Meridian City Council Special Meeting
December 14, 2010
Page 22 of 42
Kilchenmann: Generally, yes. (Unintelligible) will take this and all these won't be impact
fee eligible, if that's what your -- and we want to meet with each of you and go through
your service levels again and, then, we will come up with an impact fee CIP and, then,
we will need to meet with the -- and, then, we have to meet with the impact fee
(unintelligible).
Siddoway: Okay. So, this is really -- this is a precursor to the impact fee CIP?
Kilchenmann: Yes. It's ours in the city, but it's also necessary to move on to
(unintelligible).
Siddoway: (Unintelligible).
Kilchenmann: So, the next step probably for January (unintelligible). Any other
questions or --
Rountree: Stacy, on the spreadsheets on the General Fund and the impact fee
(unintelligible) Ithink it is in the General Fund budget, but --
Kilchenmann: Ithink it is, because I think Rita went through and determined what
(unintelligible).
Rountree: I like that for the lay person, because if anybody is interested (unintelligible)
it would a nice line item to say yes. And, then, I guess if we could -- under that you
could say where those funds are being spent.
Kilchenmann: You know, and, actually, we do have it in another document that we
could just cut and paste.
Rountree: Okay. That would be good to have it (unintelligible).
de Weerd: It makes a more visible evidence.
Siddoway: Another question, Stacy.
Kilchenmann: Okay.
Siddoway: In terms of the annual process and this document specifically, do -- is this
document meant to memorialize the work we did a year ago and -- without changes or
are we wanting to do an annual -- you know, a discussion if anything's changed now?
Kilchenmann: You mean (unintelligible).
Siddoway: In terms of projects, years, amounts. Are we going to do a rebalancing or
are we saying -- this is just going with the work that we have already done?
Meridian City Council Special Meeting
December 14, 2010
Page 23 of 42
Kilchenmann: This is the work that we did this (unintelligible). I wouldn't think it -- I
wouldn't plan on redoing the full document until (unintelligible) the one time I think now
that we are in the swing of it.
Canning: I'll get my CIP to you right away. I promise. Yeah. I'll get it to you right away.
Kilchenmann: (Unintelligible). Okay. Anything else that -- I mean I'm sure as we go
through this we will be (unintelligible) and work on our forms and got to make sure we
have everything (unintelligible). And so it will be a work in process, I think, over the next
year, but we will just get better and better.
(Random talking. Unintelligible.)
Kilchenmann: I know for the General Fund this is (unintelligible) to reflect that and,
then, when we redo this whole document (unintelligible). And, then, I wanted to -- you
know, we are in the year end process (unintelligible). We don't have final numbers, but I
think it looks like we had a good year and (unintelligible) added to the fund balance and
I want to thank everyone for that. You can be happy with that. (Unintelligible).
(Random talking. Unintelligible.)
Bird: I want to thank you guys for the hard work that you've done and you guys kept the
budget as best you could. We kept our employees to a minimum, so we didn't have to
lay off and I'll tell you, if this don't show people that we didn't gear up when it was --
when it was good times, so -- I mean if any of you have ever had to lay people off, it's
no fun.
de Weerd: I think they have each had an opportunity to have the feeling, you know,
whether it's layoff for budget or layoff for other reasons.
(Random talking. Unintelligible.)
Kilchenmann: If you would let me know if there is anything you want to change
(unintelligible) give you like three or four days to look at it and, then, I'll have the final
and, then, I think I've got (unintelligible) we will put that together and, then, I will send
that out to everybody to make sure that's what you want and, then, I think we're good to
go.
Nary: And we will work with Stacy to have a resolution in front of you either the 28th
meeting or the 4th meeting or the 11th meeting -- in one of the next -- one of the
meetings. Right. The last one or the first one.
Rountree: Are you going to put together some text to talk about the leveraging and --
Kilchenmann: That one might not get done by January, .but I will work on it.
Meridian City Council Special Meeting
December 14, 2010
Page 24 of 42
Rountree: You work on that.
Kilchenmann: Yeah.
Rountree: (Unintelligible).
Kilchenmann: Yeah. Okay.
Rountree: (Unintelligible). I think that ought to be a part of the resolution, so
(unintelligible).
Kilchenmann: Okay.
Bird: I'm like Charlie, don't -- don't push to the point that we are redoing it in a couple of
months, so take your time and --
Kilchenmann: Okay.
Barry: (Unintelligible) February might be better for us to get through our final document
(unintelligible).
Kilchenmann: (Unintelligible).
Zaremba: I would say everybody should be comfortable that we are moving this
direction. I mean we're not going to look at it in January and February and say, oh, no
(unintelligible).
Kilchenmann: No. It's not going to be (unintelligible).
(Random talking. Unintelligible.)
de Weerd: Anything else? Thank you. Anything from our directors? Todd or Rita,
anything?
Canning: Oh, I wanted to just briefly thank folks for contributing to the comp plan as
we're putting it together and we asked for information about your CIPs and we have
tried to fold that into the longer term vision for the city as a whole. So, thanks to the
other directors for helping out with that.
Rountree: Anna, are you doing that or (unintelligible).
Canning: No, it just (unintelligible).
Rountree: Okay. Good.
de Weerd: Thirty thousand foot level.
Meridian City Council Special Meeting
December 14, 2010
Page 25 of 42
Canning: Yeah. Which is coming together quite well. I think you'll be happy when you
see it. You should get a draft copy on Friday -- bound copy for review.
Bird: The Comp Plan?
Canning: Yeah. For your meeting next week.
Zaremba: Related to that, is it next week that we get the report from the citywide
survey?
de Weerd: No. It's going to be the first week in January.
Zaremba: Okay.
Bird: Madam Mayor, I think I already told Charlie and I give Jaycee the piece of paper,
but ACRIMP waived second quarter dues for everybody.
Kilchenmann: (Unintelligible).
Bird: Ada City County (unintelligible). Not (CRIMP. ACRIMP.
Kilchenmann: Oh, the (unintelligible).
Bird: Waived the second quarter dues.
de Weerd: Why?
Bird: Because they had a bunch of Federal money left over.
de Weerd: Cool. Very good.
(Random talking. Unintelligible.)
de Weerd: We appreciated that on the record, Mr. Rountree. Okay. Anything further
from the group? Okay. I would entertain amotion --
Rountree: Madam Mayor, before we adjourn is there anything on tonight's agenda that
by modifying this agenda we can handle this afternoon (unintelligible). Either that or is
everybody comfortable with the approval of the agenda (unintelligible).
de Weerd: I don't have tonight's agenda in front of me.
Nary: I think what has been excised off there -- you know, you have got two
discussions on there that may be fairly lengthy. But most everybody else has been
Meridian City Council Special Meeting
December 14, 2010
Page 26 of 42
advised that, you know, unless it's really urgent or does require a lengthy discussion,
most of the stuff I think from the staff side is not going to be lengthy.
Bird: Okay.
(Random talking. Unintelligible.)
de Weerd: Council, I guess what I would like to do is call a five minute recess. We can
assess what is on the agenda that can be done at this point.
(Recess from 0:00 p.m. to 0:00 p.m.)
de Weerd: I will reconvene our special meeting for City Council and we have gone over
tonight's agenda to look at those that are primarily department reports and in looking at
that agenda I will first note what we had discussed to be pulled off of tonight's and
considered now. It would be Items 9-D Development Services Division on the
International Building Code; item 9-E, the mayor's office budget amendment; item 9-F,
which is the Planning Department budget amendment; item 9-G, the police department
animal control ordinance update. We will look at H to continue to next week -- or to the
28th. Item 9-L or I, Public Works Department materials management recycling grant.
And Item 9-J, Legal Department discussions on the changes to the operations --
operating procedures number 9.2.1. And Item 9-K, which is also with the Legal
Department on mail room operations and procedures and we did want to add one
additional item that was on -- not on tonight's agenda, but there is an on-call call out
duties and compensation, which is standard operating procedure 3.4.5 and with that
said, Council, if that works with you, I would need a motion to amend this agenda.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor, I move we amend the special meeting agenda to include
agenda items from tonight's Council workshop. Those items include under nine,
Department Reports, 9-D, 9-E, 9-F, 9-G, 9-I, 9-J, 9-K and a new item that was to be
added tonight, Item 9-K-1 we will call it, which was the on-call call out duties and
compensation standard operating procedure. So, with that, Madam Mayor, that is my
motion with those additions.
Rountree: Second.
de Weerd: I have a motion and a second. Mr. Nary, any clarification on the
consideration to consider these now rather than tonight?
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I think your -- initially, Mayor, you have
stated the good faith reason why the Council is making that motion, which satisfies the
statutory requirements. My other recommendation is as you get to tonight's agenda you
inquire of the audience if anybody had come for that specific item that's now been
moved. If there is a concern that somebody didn't have an opportunity, we may need to
add that to next week's agenda for further discussion if there was something we were
unaware of, but we tried to identify items that were more staff driven things and not
Meridian City Council Special Meeting
December 14, 2010
Page 27 of 42
necessarily things that the public might respond to, but that would be the only other
recommendation I would have.
de Weerd: Thank you. And just to note before I call for the vote on this, is these are
being moved because of the anticipation of tonight's meeting being rather lengthy and
we do want to give these due consideration. So, with that said, Council, we have a
motion and a second to amend our special meeting agenda. All those in favor say aye.
All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 5: Items Amended onto the Agenda from December 14, 2010 7:00 p.m.
City Council Meeting
9-D. Development Services Division: Adoption of the 2009
International Building Code, 2009 International Residential
Code, 2009 International Energy Conservation Code, and
updates to Plumbing, Mechanical, and Electrical Codes
de Weerd: Okay. So, I will go ahead and call for Item 9-D, which is Development
Services Division and it looks like Bruce will -- Bruce and Brent will be tag teaming.
Freckleton: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Nice to see you this afternoon.
de Weerd: Nice to see you. Thank you for being flexible.
Freckleton: Happy to accommodate. What we have for you today is the -- our proposal
for code adoption for the next code cycle. It's the '09 codes. The state of Idaho
adopted these codes in the last legislative session and by statute we are required to
adopt the codes in the form that they did and they take effect prior to January 1 -- or
they take effect January one. January 1. Excuse me. We have had some -- some
dealings that we -- we have been trying to work through some of the concerns that there
are with some of the codes, that's why we are a little bit tardy here. We do have a
schedule for getting together with the BCA and the Associated General Contractors and
BOMA. Brent, as a matter of fact, is going to BCA this afternoon to make the
presentation to them. So, we will be coming back to you with our formal adoption
document. The purpose of today is just to get in front of you and I believe you have --
you have our proposal, I believe, and, hopefully, you have had a chance to breeze over
it a little bit. Brent can touch as major -- there really aren't any major bullet points, but
we do have a few things where we are proposing to be slightly more restrictive than the
state's adoption and so I will turn the mike over to him and he can go over those really
quickly with you and, then, we will answer any questions you might have.
de Weerd: Thank you, Bruce.
Meridian City Council Special Meeting
December 14, 2010
Page 28 of 42
Blake: Thank you, Bruce. Madam Mayor, Mr. President, Members of the Council, more
restrictive, there is only one thing, really. It's going to off, I think, without -- without a
hitch at all. Residential accessory structures, you know, they have been in and out of
the code from 2000 from 200 square foot to 120 square foot to 200 square foot and this
year for 2009 the International Residential Code wants to bring it back to 2,000 square
foot for detached accessory structures -- 200 square foot. What we have proposed is to
modify the language to keep it at 120 square foot, which is what we have been
operating under for the last three years and mirrors what planning department's UDC
speaks to right now, too. So, it works well. That's really the only area that is more
restrictive and it's specific to the IRC, which is the residential code. I'm really here to
help stand for questions. I think the codes as a whole, as Bruce indicated, are just
going to be adopted per state, no contentious issues that we can see. Manual J and D
in the energy code of the residential code and mechanical code, it appears in all three
documents. It seems to be a contentious issue in the valley with respect to calculation,
heating and cooling sizes for residential homes in the valley and for Meridian. We are
just going to adopt it as written. We are not proposing any kind of a balancing
certification process at the end, other than our normal final inspection. We plan to
phase that in as the valley understands more -- has more training and certification as
that comes along. We will look towards balancing at that time. But I think that's a
benefit right now. The builders like to hear that. We talked about it last month a little
bit. So, I think that's a bonus. With that, really, I will just stand for questions, anything
you might have of us.
Freckleton: The only other thing I might mention is that the fire code adoption is part of
this package and Deputy Chief Silva is here to speak to --
de Weerd: Well, I think we will probably speak to that tonight.
Rountree: We will straight it.
Freckleton: Oh. Okay. I'm sorry.
de Weerd: Okay. Council, questions for Bruce or Brent?
Rountree: Brent, you talked about the calculations -- the energy calculations, I assume,
in the new code there that's going to a kind of phased in. I would like that spoken to in a
memo, so we don't get dual connection kinds of things happening to us in the future
that, well, we kind of were lax in the beginning because nobody understood them, but
six months, two years, whatever the time line is, all of a sudden we are requiring calcs
and we are going to be checking calcs and so here is where we drew the line in the
sand and this is why. So, I think that needs to be --
Blake: Yes. Mr. President, Members of the Council, Madam Mayor, we are
implementing as of this code adoption -- we will require calculations for residential heat
load beginning January 26th, hopefully, when this is adopted. So everybody's on board.
We have advertised that, we are reaching out as much as we can to let people know.
Meridian City Council Special Meeting
December 14, 2010
Page 29 of 42
It's not new language. I might add, it appears in the 2006 codes as well, just worded a
little bit differently. Software programs and how they -- it's is a little bit more restrictive
in showing your work and how you arrive at the numbers. So, we will be asking for that.
We will be verifying through field inspection to standard operating procedure. I think the
biggest thing that people are reluctant to, if you will, is the balancing side. You know,
are the contractors going to balance? Are the builders going to be expected to balance
and people being certified to do that, that's the part we want to phase face in at a later
date if necessary.
Rountree: So, at this point the code allows some flexibility?
Blake: It does. It does.
Rountree: And I would say that it's probably reasonable policy to maintain flexibility as
long as possible.
Blake: And I might add, we are trying to be, you know, flexible. It is a, you know,
difficult program, but we need to do the things that we need to do, as you're aware, to
implement the energy portion of -- Nampa seems to be the most restrictive with their
program where they are at and I think we are trying to learn a little bit as we go in
understanding what the other -- our neighboring municipalities are doing, Boise City,
Eagle, Ada county, everybody out there. So, testing and certification part Ithink -- this
program is still in its infancy in that regard.
Freckleton: Just one point, Your Honor. There aren't any testing facilities set up, there
is no testing for certification in place. It's something that all the jurisdictions in the valley
have been cooperating trying to put together a program, but at this point in time there is
just simply not a program in place and so what we have attempted to do through
website postings and mailings that we have been sending out to the contractors is just
keeping them abreast of where we are in the process and how we will be phasing it in
when a program is in place. So, it is definitely something we are trying to out reach and
make sure people are on board.
de Weerd: So, it sounds like there is still -- there remains flexibility until different
mechanisms are in place that makes it feasible.
Freckleton: Absolutely. Absolutely.
de Weerd: But you will come back to Council before that happens where the flexibility --
yes.
Freckleton: Absolutely. Yeah.
de Weerd: Okay.
Freckleton: Yeah. We will.
Meridian City Council Special Meeting
December 14, 2010
Page 30 of 42
de Weerd: Other questions from Council? Okay.
Freckleton: Thank you very much and we will see you -- when, Brent? First part of
January we will be back with the first --
Blake: The 25th I think it is.
Freckleton: With the actual adoption documents.
de Weerd: Okay.
Blake: And as Bruce said, I am going to take this to BCA at 3:00 o'clock this afternoon
and have it before them. So, thank you.
de Weerd: So, January 25th in case someone is here this evening that wants to know
when this might be considered.
Freckleton: Correct.
de Weerd: Okay. Thank you so much.
Freckleton: Thank you.
Blake: Thank you.
9-E. Mayor's Office: Budget Amendment for Meridian's Promise
Community Events for aNot-to-Exceed Amount of $5,000.00
de Weerd: Okay. Item 9-E is the budget amendment that's in front of you and Robert
will speak as to why it's in front of you.
Simison: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the budget amendment you have in
front of you is -- when we set Meridian's Promise budget each year it's primarily based
upon the amount of revenue that they will bring in from their renewals, which are 50
dollars per business to do that. Earlier this year they were presented with a 5,000 dollar
check from Walmart for the work that they have been doing in the community, so this is
above and beyond what was anticipated for Meridian's Promise and Meridian's Promise
board has already met and identified projects for use of these funds within the
community, so this budget amendment is before you to authorize them to have the
spending authority to reinvest this into our community into programs that meet the five
promises in the community. I will be happy to stand for any questions.
de Weerd: Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none.
Meridian City Council Special Meeting
December 14, 2010
Page 31 of 42
Rountree: I have none.
de Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Any -- I do need a motion.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve the budget amendment for Meridian's Promise community
event not to exceed 5,000 dollars.
Zaremba: Second.
de Weerd: Thank you. I have a motion and a second. If there is no discussion, Madam
Clerk.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
de Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
9-F. Planning Department: Budget Amendment to Convert Two
Part Time Positions into One Full Time Position for aNot-to-
Exceed Amount of $21,232.00
de Weerd: Our next item is with our planning department.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the budget amendment request
tonight is to convert two part-time positions into one time position for a not to exceed
amount of 21,232 dollars you may recall during my strategic plan I talked about my
aspirations of getting the destination downtown more fully implemented by doing kind of
specific -- mini specific area plans for the five districts called out in destination
downtown and the -- one of the other key items I wanted to work on was ways to make
things simple for our customers through more visual, through more interactive pdfs and
things like that. Both of those skill sets are in my part-time employees Brian McClure
and I had raised the idea of making him full time. So, this is the budget amendment that
would accomplish that, for your consideration.
de Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions at this -- on this item? Okay.
Rountree: I have none. Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Meridian City Council Special Meeting
December 14, 2010
Page 32 of 42
Rountree: I move that we approve the planning department budget amendment to
convert the part-time positions into one full time, not to exceed 21,232 dollars.
Zaremba: Second.
de Weerd: I have a motion and a second on this item. Any discussion? Madam Clerk,
will you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
de Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
9-G. Police Department: Animal Control Ordinance Updates
de Weerd: Item 9-G in our police department, the animal control ordinance update. I
will ask Chief Lavey to give comment.
Lavey: Madam Mayor, Council, approximately two months ago I was in front of Council
requesting a couple of proposed changes to the city ordinance in relation to dogs and
those were a dog at large and failure to license your dog and the main change was to
make those of a misdemeanor -- bring them down to an infraction. And, then, that
conversation evolved into some other areas and we were asked by Council to bring
back some changes the following month and due to a family emergency I wasn't here
last month and it was my understanding that it really got more involved in that they
brought some other proposed changes in regards to the animal ordinances and that
really wasn't the intent and I believe it may have confused other people and so what we
have in front of you now is back to the original proposal was those -- those changes in
dog ordinances only and it makes what used to be an infraction an -- I mean, excuse
me, what used to be a misdemeanor an infraction now. The first two offenses would be
an infraction and the third offense would be a misdemeanor at the discretion of the
judge up to the maximum penalty and there would be some court costs also associated
with the infraction if it went to court, but it wouldn't put a criminal record on or give
someone a criminal record or a warrant for their arrest or anything like that if they didn't
take care of it on the infraction and, then, some additional changes were to the
definitions, some statutory authority of animal control officers and some clarifications to
the due process and really what -- what we had was -- was good and what we are
proposing is better and with that I will turn it over to Mr. Nary who will briefly talk about
some of those additional proposed changes.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I think the other -- the other changes the
chiefs talking about were more clarification things, issues about who has authority to do
what, some due process things in regards to vicious dogs or what the authority of
animal control officers are, so more of what I think as clean up. I think the things that
were of concern to the Council and certainly to the public were in relation to the dog at
Meridian City Council Special Meeting
December 14, 2010
Page 33 of 42
large offenses. That's probably the most significant one and that's the change you had
requested, which was regarding the infraction offense, instead of it being a
misdemeanor offense. So, that's what's in front of you. If you find it satisfactory you
have had an opportunity to review it, we can put it on next week for adoption or for first
reading, whichever is your preference.
de Weerd: Okay. Any questions from Council? I think we have probably discussed
this.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I'd just recommend you put it on for adoption.
Bird: Second that.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor, I would supported that as well. Just curiosity. Bill, what's the
status of those who were charged under the old ordinance with a misdemeanor and
may not have been through the prosecution process yet?
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Zaremba, the
prosecution's staff from the city of Boise worked with us on that issue because of the
concern that was raised to you, so all of those folks that had pending cases as they
came to court, they amended those charges down to an infraction offense, so that they
wouldn't essentially suffer greater penalty than what we were anticipating they would in
the future. So, they took care of for us and, then, we had some other issues that you
mayor may not have become aware of of folks that had not showed up to court on other
occasions prior to what you have been talking about this case and so Boise City has
agreed to work with us on that with those people to try and get their cases resolved a
little bit gentler than maybe the process would have been otherwise, so --
Zaremba: Thank you.
de Weerd: Well -- so, we will move forward with -- on this next week -- what would the
time frame be, Mr. Nary?
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, we will put it on for all readings next
week for approval and, then, it would be adopted once it's published and by -- from the
publishing times it would probably be the first of January that it would become effective,
so --
de Weerd: Okay. Well, I hope that you extend to our prosecutor our appreciation for
him to continue to work on each of the citations to show the desire of Council that it not
be a misdemeanor, rather than infraction.
Nary: I will make that. No. Mr. Guerdon's been great to work with for us and so I will
make sure he knows that it's still ongoing.
9-I. Public Works Department: Materials ManagementlRecycling
Meridian City Council Special Meeting
December 14, 2010
Page 34 of 42
Grant Submission to the Department of Environmental Quality
(DEQ)
de Weerd: Okay. Okay. Thank you, chief. And, Mr. Nary, any final comments? Okay.
Okay. We will now move to Item 9-I which is the Public Works Department and I
believe Molly is here to present this item.
Mangerich: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Council President, Council Members. The
purpose of my coming to Council meeting is two fold. One to receive approval for you
to apply for a grant offer to the Department of Environmental Quality. It is a recycling
grant, with a maximum award of 30,000 dollars and, then, secondly, to request a letter
of support from our Mayor and Council for submitting this grant. Within your packet I
have provided a draft letter of support for your staff to review and edit and that I could
pick up later should you so choose. The deadline for this grant is this Friday on the 17th
and I'd like to briefly go over what we are asking for in this grant. To supplement our
very popular and rising residential recycling rate due to the changes in our curbside
recycling with our waste hauler, I wanted to target our nonresidential or commercial
waste sector to increase recycling behaviors in that part of our waste stream as well.
have developed a partnership with our Meridian Chamber of Commerce and they are
providing a letter of support, along with our waste haulers, sanitary sewers -- services
company and as well as elementary school -- Hunter Elementary, so that we can also
roll this off into a recyclit school. The majority of the work cash value 18 -- 16,220
dollars are for professional services for design, production, development, et cetera. In
kind matches are not required, but we have provided staff resources of a value of I
believe 2,288 dollars. There is a one year implementation timeline on this grant and it's
a great opportunity for us. Do you have any questions?
de Weerd: Council, any questions? Just a correction in the letter from me -- or I.
Mangerich: Oh, thank you.
de Weerd: So -- and just to -- to run that through the -- whomever to make sure it's
good English. Just the City Council and I. But I think this is very exciting and
appreciated it. And, Council, anything to add?
Hoaglun: Just -- Madam Mayor. Molly, good chance of getting this grant or are there
lots of applications? Have you heard what --
Mangerich: I think it's going to be very competitive, because this is a one-time award
through Idaho DEQ. It is statewide. So, there -- they don't have an annual grant
program, so I imagine it's going to be a big bump in terms of requests on this grant.
Where I believe our strength lies is that we are a new program, new initiatives and so
we have never submitted to recycling grants, waste grants, before and so we would look
favorably in that regard.
Hoaglun: And when would we know?
Meridian City Council Special Meeting
December 14, 2010
Page 35 of 42
Mangerich: The timeline will let us know by -- let's see. We have to begin work by
March. So February.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor, the January 24th notification grant awards, so --
Mangerich: Thank you.
de Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Zaremba: Do we need to take action and authorize the Mayor to sign the letter?
de Weerd: Yes.
Zaremba: So moved.
Hoaglun: Second.
de Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve this grant submission and
authorize the Mayor to sign. Is that roll call, Mr. Nary?
Rountree: No.
Nary: Yes.
de Weerd: Seemed arbitrary, but, Madam Clerk, will you, please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
de Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
9-J. Legal Department: Discussion on Changes to Standard
Operating Procedure Number 6.2.1 -Use of City Vehicles
de Weerd: Thank you, Molly. Item 9-J under Legal Department discussion on changes
to the use of city vehicles.
Nary: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. You have had this policy in
front of you a couple of times and what's now in front of you listed as a new item six was
after our last discussion I met with the departments that are affected by employees that
have cell phones that use vehicles. The police have been able to come up with a
method and a technology to allow their cars to have hands free technology in the patrol
cars, so they were, obviously, the biggest users of that type of -- or that type of system
in the cars, but, basically, the technology is -- and some of our technology challenges in
Meridian City Council Special Meeting
December 14, 2010
Page 36 of 42
both Parks and Public Works, both the directors -- and they both happen to be here --
weren't comfortable that we could make that change right now and so, then, prohibit --
prohibit employees if it's, basically, a job related functions that they are doing, made it
very difficult to do business. So, that's why the policy that's in front of you says,
basically, the drivers are strongly discouraged from talking on the phone while the
vehicle is in motion without the use of hands free technology. We didn't want -- the last
sentence in there was we didn't want it to apply to emergency responders from
responding to an emergency. We didn't want that to impact an emergency, but until we
are able to get all of the cars outfitted and the technology is one that we may be able to
get there, I think in some instances the cell phones that we purchased are able to be
used in that type of vehicles that we have. I think it's a technology advancement that we
will probably get to, we just aren't there yet. So, that's why it reads the way it is. The
one that's previous to it, number five, isn't underlined in this draft, but that's one you
have seen before. It's not part of the current policy, but that was part of what was being
requested was that it, basically, is just telling employees don't text and drive. It's an
ordinance anyway, but just want to make sure in policy they know not to be doing that.
So, if you have any questions of me or Mr. Siddoway and Mr. Barry are here as well
from their departments, if you have questions about their specific needs for them.
de Weerd: Okay. Council?
Rountree: Okay with me.
Bird: Go ahead with it.
Rountree: Yeah.
Bird: Bring it forward.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, we can bring that with a resolution for
your approval next week and we can talk about the next one. I can, hopefully, bring
them both in the next two weeks.
9-K. Legal Department: Discussion on the City of Meridian
Mailroom Operations and Procedures
9K1 Amended Onto the Agenda: On-Call/Call-Out Duties and
Compensation Standard Procedure Number 3.4.5
de Weerd: Very good. Did you do the -- just go ahead and do the --
Nary: I'm sorry. Will just keep talking. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council --
de Weerd: Well, how can I stop you?
Nary: -- the next one that you have in front of you is the mail room procedures and this
is, actually, not just the legal department, but the emergency management team headed
Meridian City Council Special Meeting
December 14, 2010
Page 37 of 42
up by Chief Niemeyer. This is one that's been in the -- in the discussion stage since
about mid October of 2008. So, as soon as we moved in this building we recognized
we had a concern about how we process mail in this building, particularly when the
Congressman's office moved into this building it was another concern of how we
process mail and deal with the type of mischief -- and I don't that use word lightly, but I
know a lot of the mail handling procedures -- much of it is mischief related, not
necessarily terrorist related, but some of it can be and so the emergency management
team has tried to come up with a process of using the mail room to its fullest and also
creating a, hopefully, safer environment for mail handling in the building. We did
discover, though, that there may be some challenges in regards to how the -- how the
mail room venting system is done, that there may be some more work to be done with
that, but that may not impact the process, it just may impact when we implement the
process. So, I think the policy itself -- and if Chief Niemeyer has addition -- most of it is
real process oriented. The postmaster has worked with the chief to agree to bring the
mail all to the mail room itself, so we don't have it being traipsed through the building.
We can, with security card access system, give the post officer a card that will allow
them access into the building that will actually notify us when the mail has arrived. We
have a method that finance -- it's a very important part of our tracking system that
finance has the first opportunity to review any of the incoming mail, because of money
and such that comes through the mail to the city, that we can actually give finance the
capability to access it first, that will, then, notify the other departments and they can go
get their mail, when that can then be then divided up amongst everybody. So, I think --
think cast aside the issue of how the room is set up and how the venting system works,
think we can bring this forward to you once we solve those issues and, then, that will
give us an implementation time of when this -- and I think the chief will also raise that
we have to train, obviously, department personnel on how to handle it, since it's slightly
different than what we have been doing today. But I'll let the chief talk about whatever
else he has. The rest of it I think is pretty process oriented.
Niemeyer: Thank you, Bill. Madam Mayor, Members the Council, this is -- this is one of
those policies that we can look at and say a little bit overboard, but at the same time this
is risk management and that's what the emergency management committee looks at is
identifying risk based on what we know in the past and what we can predict in the
future. I think this is the safest way to open the mail. It prevents -- you know, we have
seen through time when powder is exposed or when somebody sees powder in an
envelope what they typically do is run through the building trying to find somebody to
answer what is this stuff. We want to avoid that. And so this simple process will allow
us to do that. In addition, we will have a poster that's in the -- in the mail room, it's put
out by the U.S. Postal Service that, keeps those recommendations right in front of
people to keep them aware. The hard part about emergency management is that if you
don't do it every day you tend to forget things and so we are going to keep those
reminders out there. This is just a process to make sure we are keeping the city safe
and identifying the hazards early on. The postmaster has been good to work with, he's
been cooperative, and so there is no issue there and outside the other issues that we
have discussed today at the directors' meeting, getting that resolved, we can move
forward.
Meridian City Council Special Meeting
December 14, 2010
Page 38 of 42
de Weerd: Thank you, Mark. Mark, do you also want to talk about the opportunity our
mail room also presents?
Niemeyer: The opportunity --
de Weerd: Our partnership with --
Niemeyer: Not yet.
de Weerd: Okay. That was a teaser.
Niemeyer: Good thought, but not yet.
de Weerd: Council?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Looking at your operations Ithink I -- I don't know that the order designates
priority, but it seems to me that the first item under operations out to be the designation
of the single point person from each department. The next point ought to be that all of
those people have to receive training from either the postal service or their enforcement
branch and, then, the third thing is once they have received training, then, they are
allowed in and only then into operate and open the mail and, then, when they do that
and as they do that there needs to be some way to secure that area as they are
opening the mail, so I don't come in at the strange different times that I come in and get
my mail and just all of a sudden show up when they are opening the mail, so --
Niemeyer: Councilman Rountree that is something we talked about today was the
training aspects, so we are going to have to get everybody that's assigned to take care
of this task trained. One of the things we did talk about, too is we initially had it as a
single point of contact within each department, but we realize logistically that's kind of
tough, because you may have that person sick. So, that's why we have the alternate
language in there. But the .idea is to limit it to those two people, so that we limit our
exposure to that room and not everybody can just go down when they need to. But the
training is a vital component that we talked about today. Ithink that in combination with
the postmaster and with our expertise here in the city we can put together a good
training program for those folks.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Yes.
Meridian City Council Special Meeting
December 14, 2010
Page 39 of 42
Nary: Madam Mayor, Council Member Rountree, I mean you do raise one -- one issue
that we have discussed at emergency management that I don't have an answer to today
is that the way the room is designed, you're right, you could be on the side looking for
your mail and they are opening mail on the other side. So, I don't know that we have
completely got a handle on how to address that. Basically, the room itself -- if we use
the vent system that shouldn't have any great impact. If we -- we have to do some
tinkering with the vent system. It shouldn't have as great an impact. But it certainly is
something and I would echo the same thing as the chief said from a risk management
standpoint I know there is always a perception by a lot of people, not necessarily of this
Council, but that this is a lot of -- much to do about a lot of nothing and hasn't certainly
been cases in the state of Idaho that I'm aware of people getting anthrax in the mail.
But, as the chief said, if you get a box of powder and whether it's cake mix in it or rat
poison, you don't know what it is until somebody tells you what it is and you're not
going to want to go back to work until you know what it is. So, we are trying to do this to
be cautious and safe, because, again, we are subject to that type of exposure just of the
nature of who we are.
Rountree: Well, I agree, I think .it's important that we have the mail room, we ought to
implement it. Another thought that seems -- it seems inefficient to me to have each
department have an individual or two that's qualified and, then, them potentially all
coming in at about the same time they get the notice from HR that the mail has been
delivered, but some kind of a rotational schedule that -- or maybe a couple departments
can have one person open their mail or -- who is going to open the mail that comes to
the Council, those kinds of things. So, I -- I know you have thought about it, but it
seems to me that there is probably a more efficient approach than to have five or six
different people in there stumbling over themselves or trying to figure out what was --
this has always been my time and you're in here, so go away so I can open my mail.
You don't want to go there.
Niemeyer: Councilman Rountree, Ithink -- I appreciate your point. I understand what
you're saying. Ithink some of these logistically will work out. We will be fluid with it.
You know, this is a general guideline -- it is a policy, but it is a guideline of how we are
going to do things. Ithink we can adjust as we go to make sure logistically it's going to
fly.
de Weerd: And we will let you open your own mail.
Rountree: Fine with me.
de Weerd: Unless you want someone else to. If you guys want someone to open your
mail, that's fine. But we will need to know that. I guess we have always operated under
each of you wanted to do that yourself, but as we look at these security processes it is a
legitimate comment and I would need to know --
Rountree: Ithink all mail that comes through mail room needs to be opened. There is
no reason why somebody would just send a letter that -- they'd be more likely to send a
Meridian City Council Special Meeting
December 14, 2010
Page 40 of 42
letter to the Mayor and elected officials that might be potentially hazardous than they
are to -- trying to figure out who the chiefs or department heads, so we are not -- we
shouldn't excluded by any means.
Bird: Our mail should be opened, too.
Hoaglun: Yeah. I was going to say, Madam Mayor, that's -- talk about the risk of
wondering through the building, if it came to one of us and I -- oh, this looks interesting
and open it up and there we are in that -- in the room or wonder out with it as we open it
and look at it as we walking out the door --
de Weerd: Or if you're at home.
Hoaglun: Or at home, you know.
de Weerd: Yes.
Hoaglun: It's an interesting --
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Yes.
Zaremba: I would agree with all of that and add to it I occasionally have opened mail
that I wondered shouldn't the clerk have gotten this before I did and if there is some
connection between the people opening the mail and the clerk, then, that answer would
be taken away, there would be a clerk's stamp on it.
Holman: I will take one for the team.
Hoaglun: Hey, Councilman, how did you mean that, she should have gotten that
before I did.
Zaremba: Well, I don't mean that she should have gotten the dangerous stuff, but --
de Weerd: We appreciate your sacrifice.
Zaremba: Thank you, Jaycee.
de Weerd: All good points. Okay. If there is nothing further on this item, you will --
Rountree: On call.
de Weerd: I'm sorry? Oh, yes. I still have that. But we were talking about mail room.
Nothing further on that? Okay. So, that will also come back.
Meridian City Council Special Meeting
December 14, 2010
Page 41 of 42
Nary: Yes.
de Weerd: Okay.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the last one I asked you to add was the
on-call call out duties and compensation. This is -- this is one of our city policies
number 3.4.5. The only change we are recommending here -- when we originally
drafted this all of the departments and any of the people on call worked as usual
Monday through Friday schedule, weekends, Saturday, Sundays off, so that's what it
reflected in the policy. The Parks Department is looking to change their schedule for a
variety of reasons that all are perfectly legitimate, it just doesn't match up with the
policy, because now people's actual scheduled work days are going to be a Saturday or
a Sunday. So, we were asking simply to bring this forward with the change that -- what
was formerly called weekdays will be -- will be just simply referred to as regular
scheduled work day and that the weekends would be the regularly scheduled day off.
So, that was what the intent of what the pay was for, was going to pay you the slight
addition to your normal day you worked anyway and a slightly higher on the days you
were normally scheduled off. So, it would just be more reflective of what we are doing
anyway and it would cover any -- other departments as well that may at some point
need to change their work schedule based on operational need and if that's satisfy -- I
will stand for questions and if that's satisfactory I will bring a resolution with that one, as
well as the city vehicle policy.
de Weerd: Comments? Questions?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Zaremba?
Zaremba: Is this parallel to or in agreement with agreement made with the firemen's
union?
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Zaremba, no, it doesn't
apply to the fire union contract, because they have specific requirements on what they
get in regards to a call out or a call back and those things. So, theirs is separate
anyway.
Zaremba: Thank you.
de Weerd: Okay. Thank you, Council. This will see some time this evening. So, we
are at the end of our agenda. I would entertain a motion to adjourn.
Rountree: So moved.
Hoaglun: Second.
Meridian City Council Special Meeting
December 14, 2010
Page 42 of 42
De Weerd: All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Thank you.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 2:19 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
~~~~~
MAYOR Y de WEERD
~, ,
,.~y pF ~ER~ ~, -%
.,~ ' :.
.~
F YC~E
~~+~L
~ QM
~ ~
%,~Q ~T 1ST •~ ~`~~~`..
C
~~'~~~, DU~T`~ ~ ,,.~`~~
DATE APPROVED
OLMAN, CITY CLERK