HomeMy WebLinkAbout2010 10-26Meridian City Council Meeting October 26 2010
A Council meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:05 p.m.,
Tuesday, October 26, 2010, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, Charlie Rountree, Brad Hoaglun and Keith
Bird.
Members Absent: President David Zaremba.
Others Present: Ted Baird, Jacy Jones, Pete Friedman, Sonya Waters, Bill Parsons,
Warren Stewart, Mark Niemeyer, John Overton, Steve Siddoway, and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
David Zaremba X Brad Hoaglun
X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
de Weerd: Thank you for waiting and we will just go ahead and enter right into our
regular meeting. For the record, it is Tuesday, October 26. It's five minutes after 7:00.
We will start with roll call attendance. Madam Clerk.
Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance
de Weerd: Thank you. Item No. 2 is our Pledge of Allegiance. If you will all rise and
join us in the pledge.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
Item 3: Community Invocation by Dave Duron of Meridian First Baptist
Church
de Weerd: Item 3 is our community invocation. Tonight we will be led by Pastor Dave
Duron with the Meridian First Baptist Church. If you will all join us in the community
invocation or take this as an opportunity for a moment of reflection.
Duron: Let us pray. Father, we thank you for today. Lord, we thank you for allowing us
the privilege to convene in such a format in our country and how you have blessed us
and the leaders we have here. We ask that you would give them wisdom and may the
business conducted today bring you honor and glory. May we see change in our
community that is for a -- for a large time, Lord, we have seen so many good things
happening in our city. Lord, thank you for the benefits that we are a part of here in this
gathering tonight, in Jesus' name, amen.
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October 26, 2010
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de Weerd: Thank you, Dave, for joining us today. It's nice seeing you.
Item 4: Adoption of the Agenda
de Weerd: Item No. 4 is adoption of the agenda.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: A couple items to note on tonight's agenda. Under the Consent Agenda 5-K,
that is resolution number 10-750 and 5-L is resolution number 10-751. Under
Department Reports, Item 8-B, that resolution number is 10-752. And with those
additions, Madam Mayor, I move adoption of tonight's agenda.
Rountree: Second.
de Weerd: I have a motion and second to adopt the agenda as stated. All those in
favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 5: Consent Agenda
A. Approve Minutes of October 5, 2010 City Council Regular
Meeting
B. Approve Minutes of October 12, 2010 City Council Pre-Council
Meeting
C. Approve Minutes of October 12, 2010 City Council Workshop
Meeting
D. Personal Services Agreement for the Meridian Historical
Preservation Society with Elysia-Rose Nary for aNot-to-
Exceed Amount of $1,000.00
E. Remaining Balance to Task Order 10010 with CH2M Hill
(Master Agreement Dated April 13, 2010) for Engineering
Design Services of the Ground Reservoir #2 Project for aNot-
to-Exceed Amount of $65,613.00
F. Blood Draw Agreement Between Ada County Emergency
Medical Services and the City of Meridian
G. Business Associate Agreement Between Ada County
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October 26, 2010
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Emergency Medical Services and the City of Meridian
H. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law: MDA 10-008 Regency at
River Valley by Bach Investments, LLC Located at 2500 N.
Eagle Road Request: Modify the Site Plan, Landscape Plan,
Building Elevations and Certain Provisions Contained in the
Development Agreement Approved for the Regency at River
Valley Apartment Project
I. Order Granting a Third Eighteen Month Time Extension: TE 10-
023 Zebulon Heights Subdivision No. 2 by The Traditions by
Amyx II, LLP Located South Side of E. McMillan Road and
West of N. Eagle Road Request: Approval for an 18-Month
Time Extension to Obtain the City Engineer's Signature on the
Final Plat
J. Order Granting a Fourth Eighteen Month Time Extension: TE
10-022 Ambercreek No. 2 by Trilogy Development Located
Southwest Corner of N. Meridian Road and W. McMillan Road
Request: Approval of an 18-Month Time Extension to Obtain
the City Engineer's Signature on the Final Plat
K. Resolution No. : A Resolution of the
Mayor and City Council of the City of Meridian to Amend the
City of Meridian Standard Operating Policy and Procedure
Manual Regarding Number 4.10 -Leave Without Pay (LWOP)
L. Resolution No. :Spring Creek VAC
10-006: A Resolution Vacating a portion of the Utilities,
Drainage and Irrigation Easement Located in a Portion of Lots
3 and 4 of Strasser Farms Subdivision No. 2, Recorded in
Book 70 at Pages 7148 and 7149, Records of Ada County,
Situated in Government Lot 1 of Section 1, Township 3 North,
Range 1 West, Boise Meridian, City of Meridian, Ada County,
Idaho
de Weerd: Item 5, Consent Agenda.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: As noted, under the Consent Agenda, 5-K is resolution number 10-750. 5-L
is resolution number 10-751. And I move approval of tonight's Consent Agenda.
Rountree: Second.
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October 26, 2010
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de Weerd: Thank you. I have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda.
If there is no discussion, Madam Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, absent; Hoaglun, yea.
de Weerd: All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 6: Community Items/Presentations
A. Check Presentation to the Meridian Fire Department Public
Education Fund for $9,000.00 From the Light My Fire
Organization
de Weerd: That leads us to Item 6-A, which is a check presentation. I will ask Chief
Niemeyer to present this item.
Niemeyer: Madam Mayor, actually, Pam Orr is going to be presenting this.
de Weerd: Okay.
Orr: Madam Mayor, I work with an organization called Light My Fire and this wonderful
organization has been supporting the Boise and Meridian fire departments for many,
many, many years and they do two different things. One of them is annual banquets,
which we have a silent auction and the other one is a golf tournament that they do every
year for us. The proceeds of this event supports the public education programs of the
Boise and Meridian fire departments and it also supports some of our burn-out funds
and so they are presenting a check tonight to our public education program and, then,
also to the association for the burn-out fund. So, I'm going to turn it over to Mike Seidl
and Paul Davis, because he is the one that is presenting that.
de Weerd: Thank you, Pam.
Rountree: The guy with the money gets to talk.
Seidl: Those of you who aren't familiar with our organization, it started, if I remember
correctly, back in 1995 as the All Industry Association. Over the years we have had a
number of changes. One of them was in 2000 we changed the name to the Light My
Fire committee. A couple years after that we were able to add in the Boise burn-out
fund as a beneficiary of the funds that we raise and, then, about a year or so after that
we added the Meridian fire departments education programs and burn-out funds, which
are both our fundraisers as Pam talked about the auction in February and the golf
tournament in June. This year we were able to raise a total of 28,000 dollars of funds
that we are able to donate to the two fire departments and tonight we are able to donate
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October 26, 2010
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9,200 dollars to the education fund of the Meridian Fire Department and another 2,000
dollars to the burn-out fund. And before I'm done I'd like to make aformal -- a formal
invite. Thank you. A formal invitation to yourself, Madam Mayor, and the rest of the
members of the Council to come to our auction in February. It's going to be on
February 12th at the Doubletree Riverside. It's a great event. We take over the whole
ballroom that they have there. We have several hundred people that come and this
year the theme is going to be -- actually, June, will be western. I'm sorry. I said June
again. February. It will be western and people will wear costumes and it's going to be a
great event. We have a tremendous amount of fun and love to see you guys there if
you can fit us in your schedule.
de Weerd: So, some might wear costumes. We will just come in our regular jeans and
boots and --
Seidl: Exactly. Thank you very much for your time and we appreciate it.
de Weerd: Well, we would like to thank you. I do know that you have been presenting
both our department and our association these kinds of checks for a number of years
and we greatly appreciate that. It does allow our employees to do a great deal in this
community in prevention work, in helping those that are in need and it's greatly
appreciated what you do and I have already told Pam that I would be at the banquet.
Seidl: You will?
de Weerd: She -- she got the date to me and we have penciled it in. I think I was
supposed to be there last year and something came up. So, I apologize I wasn't able to
meet all of you one on one, but I do look forward to it this year and thank you, again, for
all you do in our communities and community education for our fire service. So --
Seidl: Thank you.
de Weerd: Bill or Chris, do you want to say anything on behalf of the association?
Verkerk: City Council, Madam Mayor, I'm Chris Verkerk, president of Meridian
Firefighters Association. They have done a great job with providing our burn-out fund
with some funds that we can give to our citizens when they have a catastrophe, a fire, a
flood, or whatever at their house. Currently our policy is that if they are left without a
residence we give them 300 dollars to get them through the night and that just allows
them to get a hotel room and some needed amenities throughout the night. So, it's a
great opportunity for us to work with the insurance companies and the restoration
companies to provide those for our citizens. So, I do thank them.
de Weerd: Thank you, Chris.
Verkerk: You're welcome.
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October 26, 2010
Page 6 of 50
de Weerd: Thank you for joining us to our firefighters out there. We greatly appreciate
you being here. Okay. Our next item, Item 6-B -- or, chief, did you want to say
anything? I know you like to --
Niemeyer: You know I like to talk?
de Weerd: Yes.
Niemeyer: Certainly I do want to thank these organizations. The golf tournament is a
great opportunity for us to get out and meet these folks and work with them. The
contributions that they do make are paramount to our prevention program, which Pam
was up presenting before you. As you know, it's prevention month and so this -- these
funds go a long way to helping education folks on the danger of the fire and life safety.
So, certainly want to thank them if you meet them out in the hall.
B. Lakeview Golf Course Improvement Tournament Fundraiser
Discussion
de Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Our next item is regarding a letter in front of you,
Council, from Guy Webster. I did talk to Guy. He's not here tonight, is he? I did tell him
that he could watch the football game that I would talk about this on his behalf, unless
one of you are here on his behalf? Why don't I introduce this and, then, if you would like
to provide additional comment you can give Guy a report card on how I did. I promised
him I would do well. On September 11th and also last Friday night, the members of
Golf View -- or Lakeview Golf Course did do two different fundraisers and, in total, they
have raised 11,000 dollars -- or 11,152 dollars to address two major concerns, the over
400 members of the golf club have. They are golf paths and sand traps. These -- these
dollars raised have already been put to work in putting in cart paths to, again, increase
the esthetics of the -- and the functionality of our golf course. These citizens have really
stepped forward to bring needed improvements, knowing what the economy has done
and some of the constraints at the golf course and trying to be part of the solution in
making these improvements, so they, as members, can bring friends and family and feel
proud of where they are bringing them to come and golf. The request in front of you
today, Council, is -- as they want to be part of the solution and provide a course that we
can all be proud of, they would also like the Council to recognize these efforts from
citizens and patrons of the golf course by matching dollar for dollar the dollars that they
have raised and the request in front of you, Council, is if the Council would be willing to
match the funds, so that they can continue to complete the improvements with the golf
paths -- or the cart paths and some restoration of sand traps, which are in desperate
need of sand. I tell them I don't like to hit out of sand anyway, so I kind of like the solid
surface, but -- and also to rebuild those sand traps. So, I would invite either of you, if
you have additional comments -- if you will, please, state your name and address.
Vegele: My name is Harley Vegele. My address is 3835 East Eisenhower Drive,
Meridian
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October 26, 2010
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de Weerd: Thank you.
Vegele: I'm the men's association president at Lakeview
de Weerd: Well, thank you for being here.
Vegele: And I was warned that something was coming up on this and I wanted to be
here. I didn't know about the sand trap part. That has not been really part of our
discussion. We did discuss as a board to approach you with matching funds as of this
date right now and I am having -- we are letting Raven take care of the funds right now
to do this, because it was easier for them. I right now am having trouble getting the
figures from Raven telling us how much they have spent so far. The cart path is our
number one priority, but that's not the end of our priority. The sand traps, I agree with
you, I'd rather hit out of the hardness myself, but is an issue, but I don't think that's a
number one issue that we really want to do as a board. So, Guy's kind of thrown me a
curve on this one.
de Weerd: Well, I just have gotten from Guy there were two major concerns and
certainly the first priority is the cart paths.
Vegele: And the cart paths are being done at this time. You live out there. I don't know
if you have been able to see what they have done, but they are looking good. Raven's
copartner in construction has donated the labor and the equipment and we have bought
the material that's going into it. But right now I can't tell you how much we have spent of
our -- of the association's money. The two events that we had was a yard sale and a
golf tournament and we just had one Friday, which was held by one of the member's
wife and we are letting them control that money themselves, because he is in
landscaping and he wants to use that money to make some of the tee boxes look nicer
or -- and especially where you can see them from the roads, so that Lakeview projects a
really nice looking gold course, which is our goal.
de Weerd: Thank you. Councilman Rountree has been the chair of a small task force
that has been put together and we kind of talked about this on Friday -- last Friday as
well. Would you like to comment?
Rountree: Sure. The discussion last Friday was primarily about future capital
improvements and some maintenance activities on the golf course. Two items that we
talked about with the Eric Oaas and Raven, Kirk Travis, were continuation of the cart
path activity and efforts in at least getting sand in the sand traps and ultimately total
rehabilitation of the sand traps. At that point in time you're correct, they weren't sure
how much they had spent, but it was something less than 7,500 dollars, because that
was the budget apparently they were told they were going to be working with. I don't
know if it's bigger or not, but I hear tonight an 11,000 dollar figure, but that's the first
time I have heard of that. As far as the capital improvement plan goes, it will be put
together and will be attached ultimately to the revised lease agreement and those items
will be articulated what they will commit to do over a certain period of time and cart
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October 26, 2010
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paths and sand traps were priorities on the part of the lessee. So, it seems like we have
both the public that are members out there, as well as the operator, working together I
think to get this done in total. The one thing that we talked about -- and it's unfortunate
that we didn't have an opportunity to the talk to you all as you put the tournaments and
stuff together, we do have a 501(3)(c) organization in the City of Meridian, which those
folks could have made contributions through some mechanism to the city and they
could have used that as a tax deduction as well. We have not figured out that there is
any way to unwind what's been done, but as you look at efforts in the future, the men's
association, the ladies association, I think there is a senior group and so forth, we
probably need to sit down and talk with the city to see if we can't work out some kind of
a tax advantage for the folks who do want to participate. But, anyway, not to go into
anymore detail on the capital improvements, but what these folks are doing and what
we are trying to do and get established in the lease are things that in common that
everybody recognize need to be done. We did not talk about any matching, per se, on
the part of the city, since the city has always taken the position that that's up to the
operator, but we have the letter before us and the request. So, I guess we are here to
discuss and decide which way we want to go. I personally thank the association and
the seniors, and the ladies groups and the folks that are doing the bake sales and the
yard sales to get some stuff done out there. It's been a tough year for the operator. I
think they see the future. a little better than last year now that they are getting some
control of what's going on out there. So, that's -- there is some hope anyway.
Vegele: I agree. I have been out there for five years and this year has -- not the men's
association, ladies association, also the neighbors --
Rountree: Right.
Vegele: -- 11,000 was before last Friday's event, which 3,000 dollars in addition was
raised on Friday. Like I say, this is not just the men's association and the ladies
association, this is all the -- excuse me -- all the neighbors around there and we are
really proud of our course and that's why everybody is -- and if we had further
fundraising who would we talk to about working together with the city.
Rountree: My recommendation is probably through the Mayor's office and we get the --
believe that's with parks and recreation at this point, but it's in the process of being
transferred, so -- but we can work out the details through the Mayor's office.
Vegele: Okay. Well, we appreciate anything you can do to help us or with guidance or
whatever.
de Weerd: Well -- and Councilman Bird and I are board members on the Friends of
Meridian Parks, which is the 501(c)(3) umbrella that we could run contributions through
for the tax status. So, would love to work with you on that.
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October 26, 2010
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Vegele: That would be fantastic. I don't think anybody really -- quite honestly, when we
saw what happened and the mess we got thrown into, we weren't worried about tax
deductions, we were worried about keeping our course and keeping it going.
de Weerd: Well -- and that's even more admirable.
Vegele: Thank you.
de Weerd: Thank you.
Vegele: Thank you for your time.
Rountree: Thank you.
de Weerd: So, Council, any other comment? Good evening.
Shane: Mayor and Councilmen, my name is Jim Shane. S-h-a-n-e. Live at 4153 West
Harbor Point Drive.
de Weerd: Thank you.
Shane: My property is on the golf course. My wife and my other family members and
participated in the improvement tournament. I made contributions to the yard sale and
bought something in the silent auction in the tournament that was just the other night.
de Weerd: Oh, you must have bought my dinner, uh?
Shane: I will be at your house.
de Weerd: How nice to meet you, Jim.
Shane: Yeah. I just would like to have one point put into the record. It's not something
that's been ignored or overlooked, but I just would like to make sure it's there and that is
as one of the participants and as somebody that lives there, I'd like to make sure that
everybody that's negotiating with the track and the operating company knows that,
speaking for myself and my family, and I think a lot of the people, the contributions we
made and the efforts we made were for the improvement of the facility. We all want to
seethe facility improved, we all want the operators to be successful, but it was no way
intended to be a bail out for Eric Oaas or Laney or Raven, it was just people who want
that golf course to be a better golf course. So, in the negotiations in the future with
them whatever their business problems are, don't believe that the people who are
making contributions are trying to help them in their business. Two separate items.
de Weerd: And we fully understand that and I think those of us that live out there as
well, you know, we are willing to plant our trees and fertilize and mow and trim do all
that for the reason we want to be proud of that golf course.
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October 26, 2010
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Shane: I'm in the process of putting in a 6,000 dollar enchanted forest in the corner of
my property and I volunteered when they asked for people to work for nothing, I put my
name in and nobody's called me yet, so -- and I believe there is a lot of other people
willing to do that and the effort is there. But, again, you know, the efforts and the
sentiment I feel is that we want to see the facility improved, we don't want to bail out
Oaas and Laney. Thank you.
de Weerd: I certainly understand that, Jim. Thank you. Okay. Council, what are your
thoughts?
Hoaglun: Just a question, Madam Mayor, probably to Councilman Rountree. Where
are we in the discussion with the committee that was appointed on their request for the
waiver of the payments -- yearly payments? Is that -- any progress been made on that
and what can you update us on those meetings?
Rountree: Probably at least two weeks away before we make a recommendation. We
have dealt with the maintenance issues that were attached to the lease. We have dealt
with the -- at least the preliminary list of capital improvements. That needs to be
finalized. We, then, need to go through the lease as it is and make it -- refresh it and
eliminate the things that are no longer applicable. The partners that no longer partners,
those kinds of things. And, then, finalize that with legal. So, I'm thinking we are at least
two weeks away before we get there. So, in three weeks we might have a
recommendation. We are meeting once a week. Been good meetings and lots of give
and take, lots of good -- good comments, lots of recognition that things need to be done.
So, it's been positive and I'd like -- I'm trying to get it so it doesn't go much more than
two weeks and we can report in the third week.
Hoaglun: Thank you.
Rountree: If anything does come up and it looks like it's going to make that go astray,
will inform you as such.
de Weerd: And the parks staff has been at the table as well to look at leveraging
resources, if there are potential areas that that could happen. So, we are looking under
every stone. Ted, do you have anything you want to add?
Baird: Madam Mayor, I think Councilman Rountree summed up the progress from the
committee and I would agree with the two to three week time frame to be back in front
of you.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor, a question. In this request they are asking. Has there been
identified a funding source that if the Council were to agree to this where that money
could be coming from?
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October 26, 2010
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de Weerd: The -- outside of more the -- the immediate and obvious is the discretionary
funds that Council has. I don't believe that either chief -- either chiefs, police or fire, are
looking at helping out of their budgets, nor I don't think parks would either, so --
Hoaglun: I'm thinking the Mayor's office possibly. But anyway --
de Weerd: Icould hold a bake sale.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I guess my comment is it's certainly rewarding to see the
folks in the area, not just neighbors and the neighbors that are members, but I know
there is other folks that don't necessarily live in the neighborhood that are out there
volunteering and providing funds to make these improvements Icould -- I'd like to see
the accounting. Icould go along the contribution. I don't know that we can -- in the
discretionary funds that we have, there are not many, and, in fact, probably more than
the 11,000. I haven't looked. I don't have a number in mind that we could contribute in
terms of a partial match. I'd like to do something. I think the effort out there needs to be
rewarded. It is a -- it is our golf course and we all understand the problems that are
going on out there, probably more than anybody else out there. So, I guess that's
where I am. I don't know what the rest of you feel. I didn't -- I kind of bounced this off of
David and really didn't get a read, but I think he was -- he was excited that people were
out there doing stuff, so --
de Weerd: Council, I could bring back to you next week. at our next meeting what funds
you do have available and -- along with a budget amendment, if you would give me a
total that you felt comfortable with.
Hoaglun: Well, Madam Mayor, based on the letter I -- you know. it looked like to me
where they said in excess of 6,000 dollars was raised at that time and I was thinking,
okay, they are looking for a match of up to 6,000 dollars, but I'm not -- haven't resolved
any -- any particular dollar amount in my mind as well. I do appreciate the neighbors
and others stepping up to make that a better course and as Council Rountree
mentioned, it is the city's golf course and you want to keep it viable, you want to keep it
playable and someplace that people from around the valley want to come to and so
appreciate their efforts to do that and I do think we could probably make a contribution
to help out in that manner. You know, a lot of that depends on what -- what our fund
balances are and looking down the road money, as everyone knows, is tight
everywhere. So, just one of those things we kind of have to figure it out.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Well, I'd really, truly, like to give them some money. They went out and worked
real hard and showing the stuff, but -- and it is the city's -- it is our course, but it is ran by
a for profit company. And in my knowledge, being on there 13 years, I have never
known us to get our yearly payment, so I -- and to this point no taxpayer dollars have
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October 26, 2010
Page 12 of 50
been put into that course. Now, impact fees from houses have been. But no taxpayer
dollars. It was built -- that course in '78 was built by donations. These people went out
there and did that, I'm willing to help on that part. But I don't want it -- I don't want it to
be a yearly thing where we are subsidizing that course, as long as a private for profit
owner runs it.
de Weerd: Well, I think that Mr. Shane probably said it best, is they are there to
continue to enhance the community's asset. They are not there for the lessers of the
golf course and to put profits in their pocket, they are there to make improvements. So,
it is an asset to our community and I can appreciate that.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, just to maybe move this along per your comment, this is a
brand new fiscal year for us. Obviously, our discretionary fund is going to be at its
maximum level, but we will have discretionary issues to deal with for the next 11
months. I would suggest that for purposes of discussion as you bring back a budget
amendment for us, that we look at an amount not to exceed 6,000 dollars, as was
indicated in the original letter, and, then, take a look at what our total discretionary
budget is for the year and we may have to pair that back a little bit. I know everybody
thinks we have deep pockets, but they are your pockets and we do not have -- take the
luxury of providing ourselves much discretionary funding every year.
Bird: I would agree with that, Councilman Rountree. Come back with that, if we -- if it
looks feasible, Mayor, and I have no problems with it.
de Weerd: Council, I will bring that back at our next meeting. I will also be in
communication -- I think another point that was raised this evening is we don't know
how much has been spent and maybe to tie some accountability in terms of an
accounting for the dollars that are spent as well. So, we will have those agreements in
place, along with the budget amendment and how we can work that.
Bird: Raven is actually handling the money, isn't it? Raven?
de Weerd: Yes. Clint was the one that was --
Rountree: Yeah. And he was the one that was doing the accounting to make sure they
didn't overrun the budget that they had established. And supposedly they were going to
have that resolved Friday I thought.
de Weerd: He was coming back with numbers.
Rountree: Yes.
de Weerd: Okay. Well, thank you, Harley and Jim, for joining us this evening and I will
follow up with Guy to let him know what was decided this evening and we will tell him --
or we will communicate through him since he is our point of contact on how we will
move forward. Okay? Thank you.
Meridian City Council
October 26, 2010
Page 13 of 50
Item 7: Items Moved From Consent Agenda
de Weerd: Okay. There were no items moved from the Consent Agenda.
Item 8: Department Reports
A. Mayor's Office: Mayor's Youth Advisory Council (MYAC)
Update
de Weerd: So, we will move to Item No. 8-A, under the Mayor's Youth Advisory
Council. Tonight we have two of our officers and we will be hearing from them on
what's going on with the youth council.
Lincoln: Madam Mayor, City Council, thank you for having us. I'm Carolyn Lincoln, I'm
the vice-chair of the Mayor's Youth Advisory Council and the chair of the community
involvement subcommittee. And this is Kylin Nanney. She is our secretary this year.
Last night was really awesome. We had a meeting and I actually had the opportunity to
run the meeting, since our chair was gone, so that was really awesome. Got to use the
gavel. We had a big event last -- yesterday. It was called Mad City Money. It was with
Capital Educators and Meridian Chamber. It was a really awesome event. We started
off with just our ordinary meeting and we went out there and we had simulated packets
that had our job description and, then, a salary and if you had a husband, his salary,
and, then, children and we had to go through and buy our cars, buy our houses, budget.
They give us checkbooks. We had to learn how to write checks, budget our accounts,
and, then, just figure out if we were able to put any money into savings at the end of the
month if we were able to. Pay off our credit card debt, what kind of debt we got
ourselves into. So, it was really a big eye opener for a lot of us, because as teenagers
think we live paycheck to paycheck just as much as adults do, but we don't have those
extra expenses that we will be having, especially from me and the other seniors on the
Council. It was a really great learning experience and I thought it was neat, the lady
that was there running it from CapEd, she was just really concerned with asking what
we learned. She had just informational fliers that we filled out to say our thoughts on it.
And Kylin was there, too, if you want to tell them what you thought about it.
Nanney: It was a good experience for teens to get a taste of what adult life is like and it
was a fun experience and it was traffic.
de Weerd: From Kyfin and Caroline, I think that I heard a couple of the members
saying, boy, being an adult stresses me out. Trying to balance their budgets and we
had -- we had local business people that served as the retail components and they were
high pressure salesmen, several of them, so trying to get them to spend outside of their
means and so this was a nice exercise in financial management.
Lincoln: Yes. It was definitely eye opening. We had 45 members there and it was two
hours long and, then, we also are going to the Food Bank on November 6th. We are
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October 26, 2010
Page 14 of 50
just volunteering there. We are going to be sorting and dating food. So, hopefully, we
will get a big turn out for that. And, then, we have our TAC event that Kylin can tell you
about.
Nanney: Our last TAC event was on Friday. It was a Halloween party. We had like --
we all dressed up in costumes and it was so much fun. Middle schools -- middle
schoolers and high schoolers came. It was a good turn out and it was a fun experience
for them. And our next TAC event well be in November and I believe it's ice skating.
We are not sure on the date yet. It will be fun.
Lincoln: Are there any questions?
de Weerd: What does TAC stand for?
Lincoln: TAC stands for Teen Activities Council.
de Weerd: Thank you. Any questions from Council?
Bird: Nice report.
Lincoln: Thank you for all our support. It's really awesome events we have been
getting to do. So, thank you.
de Weerd: Thank you for joining us this evening.
B. Mayor's Office: Resolution No. : A
Resolution of the Mayor and City Council of the City of
Meridian Reappointing Commissioner Phillip Liddell to Seat 1
and Treg Bernt to Seat 2 of the Parks and Recreation
Commission
de Weerd: Okay. Item 8-B is resolution number 10-752. Council, in front of you I am
requesting the reappointment of Commissioner Phillip Liddell and Treg Bernt. They are
seats one and two of the Meridian Parks Commission. They -- this would be their
second terms and I ask for your approval.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I serve as Council liaison to the Parks Commission and Phil has been there a
little bit longer and he's great to work with, very knowledge and does a very good job.
Treg is the newcomer. I think he's the newest one on the Parks Commission, if I recall,
and he just jumped in with both feet, very enthusiastic, has absorbed a lot, learned as
much as he could and really contributes as well. So, we have got some good folks here
and certainly deserving of reappointment. So, I would move approval of resolution
Meridian City Council
October 26, 2010
Page 15 of 50
number 10-752, reappointing Commissioner Phillip Liddell to seat one and Treg Bernt to
seat two of the Parks and Recreation Commission.
Rountree: Second.
de Weerd: I have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Seeing none, Madam
Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, absent; Hoaglun, yea.
de Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
C. Discussion with the Parks Department Regarding a
Memorandum of Understanding Between Meridian Academy
and the City of Meridian Regarding Tully Skate Park Public Art
Project
de Weerd: Our next item is discussion with our Parks Department. Our director is here
to talk about an MOU.
Siddoway: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. With me tonight is
Principal Joe Palaia from the Meridian Academy and student Conner Bail and we are
here to discuss a potential art project that we would like to have done at the Tully skate
park. We were approached by Principal Palaia a few weeks ago looking for a project for
his students to be able to do with some art in one of the parks. We explored several
ideas and rested on the idea of painting some art on the wall of the half pipe in the skate
park in Tully Park. We have had a couple of meetings. At two of those meetings we
have had representatives from the Arts Commission, Nancy Rountree and Meg
Glasgow have been in attendance and voiced their support for the efforts of the school
in doing so and I'm actually going to turn the microphone over now to Principal Palaia to
talk about the vision of what he would like to do and, then, to Conner Bail and, then, I
will come back to sum up.
Palaia: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, thanks for this opportunity. This
project is -- was one of many that we are -- have been working on and figuring out how
we are going to do. Prior to school starting this year we were to get -- got together as a
staff and we decided we needed to incorporate a little bit more service learning into our
curriculum and so we came up with some rough ideas and rough outlines of projects
that we wanted to do and, then, we were going to turn them over to be developed a little
bit further by our student body. Like Steve said, the original concept for this specific
project was to possibly do some art on some of the city benches. I don't know how
many of you have ever flown through Chicago airport, through O'Hare, but they have a
huge display in there, some community art projects on a bunch of benches in there and
thought that was going to be a neat idea, but the nice coverings on the outdoor benches
Meridian City Council
October 26, 2010
Page 16 of 50
and some of the other issues kind of got in the way of that original idea and, then,
working with members of the parks -- it's not the commission, it was --
de Weerd: The Arts Commission?
Palaia: -- department staff, maintenance staff. The teacher and the students came up
with the idea to do this mural on the -- on the wall of the skate park and I have to say
this is -- this was one of the -- is one of the better projects, because the students are
really having the opportunity to see how this works going through all the different steps.
have been at several meetings -- some meeting that the students could attend. They
were there as well. Steve and the commissioners came over to our school and we had
some original visions and some versions and, then, they came back and told us to
refine it a little bit more and we refined it and changed it and we got together. So, it's
been a great learning process for our students as well. And it was real interesting, you
guys should really hear this, because a lot of the teachers that I work with -- we live in
Boise and they were really stressing and when we do these projects, you know,
Meridian is the community where these students are from and we really need to focus
on doing things in Meridian. So, I, you know, thought that would be something that you
guys would like to hear. We have got a scaled down version that Conner and I can
unroll for you and bring it up there, so you guys can take a little bit better look at it. But
the direction we got from the commission was, you know, we want this -- we wanted this
in that graffiti art style. We really want it to pop and I can specifically say that's a quote
from one of them. So, if it's -- if it's bright, it's colorful, it's one of the concepts that they
kind of came up with and -- and liked. So, we will just show you this.
de Weerd: Very cool.
Palaia: And if you guys have any questions I would be happy to answer them. This is
kind of a scaled down version about -- about four to one scaled down version.
de Weerd: Very nice. Now, so, Conner, did you help design this?
Bail: Yes. I did help design with the lettering and most of the background. I also
helped with most of the coloring, but we didn't get to the painting until like a few days
later, so --
Palaia: Tell them about the research -- I mean you guys researched art and public art
for -- you guys researched art and public art for quite awhile before you settled on this in
class.
Bail: Yeah. Because -- I just lost what I was going to say. This is Like the first time I
have ever done this.
de Weerd: Don't worry, we have all had our first and it is kind of frightening. We are
nice people, though. You might just go to where you came up with some of your ideas.
Meridian City Council
October 26, 2010
Page 17 of 50
Bail: Well, our first idea was going to be the skate and bike words, but without the brick
background and without the silhouettes, we were just going to have it like, you know,
regular dull colors, but since one of the other students decided to put different colors in
it and, then, our teacher decided to put the background in there to make it more
realistic.
de Weerd: That's very nice.
Hoaglun: So, Conner -- Madam Mayor -- whose idea was it that some of them have
fallen down, have actually crashed, Imean --
Bail: Well -- that was actually our teacher's idea.
Hoaglun: Very realistic, I guess.
Bail: Yeah.
de Weerd: Yea. If you go out there it is.
Hoaglun: What -- and, Conner, I don't know if you can answer this. Maybe Steve.
What's the time frame for doing this? If we approve it when -- when will the painting
begin? Imean it's -- we are headed -- it's fall now, going into winter. Are you going to
wait until spring? What's the time frame?
Siddoway: It would be rather immediate as the weather allows. They were hoping to do
this last week while the weather was good. There was no Council meeting last week for
us to get this on the agenda, so they are here tonight and as soon as we can and the
weather allows, they plan to do it immediately.
Hoaglun: Great. Thank you.
Siddoway: So, I would just mention that the parks amenities and signage committee
has met with the students, reviewed the proposal, has recommended approval of it. We
have worked with Emily Kane in the legal department and Bill Nary has reviewed it, so
tonight for your consideration we have the memorandum of understanding that is part of
your packets that formalizes the -- the agreement to do this and we would seek your
approval of that memorandum, so that they can move forward.
de Weerd: Thank you. I think it's a great partnership and certainly we appreciate, Joe,
that you're doing this project in Meridian. I do have one question, Steve, and that is that
wall has had it's share of not legal graffiti or not a design that we have really wanted
there. How will we keep it so that it doesn't get destroyed?
Siddoway: Well, we may not be able to and that's the reason for the agreement, but in
addition to the painting, they are going to be putting a clear coat over the top, so that we
can do our best to remove any additional graffiti that goes on top of it. The agreement
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October 26, 2010
Page 18 of 50
does state, though, that if it does become damaged beyond repair that it can be either
repaired or removed as necessary, but it will be clear coated with the intent that we will
try and keep it cleaned off as much as possible.
de Weerd: As graffiti proof as that graffiti can be, uh?
Siddoway: Yes.
de Weerd: I think it's great. We congratulate you and your fellow students for your
design and your involvement. So, Council, I need a motion to approve or what -- what
is your desire?
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I would move approval of the MOU between the City of Meridian and the
Meridian Academy on the Tully Skate Park public art project.
Bird: Second.
de Weerd: I have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Seeing none, Madam
Clerk.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, absent; Hoaglun, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Siddoway: Thank you.
Item 9: Action Items
A. Continued from October 5, 2010: Public Hearing: TE 10-021
Arch Rock Subdivision by CTD Development, LLC Located at
4550 N. Linder Road Request: 18-Month Time Extension to
Obtain the City Engineer's Signature on the Final Plat
de Weerd: Thank you for being here. Okay. 9-A under Action Items, we have a
continued public hearing on TE 10-021.
Wafters: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the next application before you is a
request for a preliminary plat time extension. The applicant's requesting approval of an
18 month time extension, which would be their second time extension for the
preliminary plat to obtain the city engineer's signature on the final plat for Arch Rock
Subdivision. The subject preliminary plat consists of 26 single family residential building
lots and three common lots on 4.75 acres of land. The applicant's narrative states that
Meridian City Council
October 26, 2010
Page 19 of 50
they have been unable to meet the time requirements specified in the Unified
Development Code due to the current economic conditions and have decided not to
move forward with finalizing the final plat this year. A development agreement was not
required with the annexation of this property, however, building elevations for future
structures on the site were approved by Council at the public hearing for the annexation
as shown. There are no outstanding issues for City Council and no written testimony
has been received on the application. Staff is recommending approval of the requested
time extension and is not recommending any new conditions of approval. Staff will
stand for any questions the Council may have.
de Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: I have none.
de Weerd: Is the applicant here? Have any comment?
Wafters: The applicant did -- I spoke with them earlier today and they were unable to
make it tonight.
de Weerd: Okay.
Wafters: But they were in agreement with the staff report.
de Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Council?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we approve the request on Item 9-A.
Bird: We need to close the public hearing.
Rountree: It's not -- oh. Close the public hearing.
Bird: Second.
de Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. All those in favor
say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Rountree: Now I move that we approve Item 9-A.
Meridian City Council
October 26, 2010
Page 20 of 50
Bird: Second.
de Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 9-A. Is there any discussion?
Hearing none, Madam Clerk.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, absent; Hoaglun, yea.
de Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
B. Public Hearing: AZ 10-002 for Barletta Subdivision by Russell
& Karen Hunemiler Located at 3299 W. Davis Lane Request:
Annexation and Zoning Approval of 5.94 Acres with an R-2
Zoning District
C. Public Hearing: PP 10-002 for Barletta Subdivision by Russell
and Karen Hunemiller Located at 3299 W. Davis Lane Request:
Preliminary Plat Approval of 2 Building Lots and 2 Common /
Other Lots on 5.94 Acres
de Weerd: Item 9-B and 9-C are public hearings on AZ 10-002 and PP 10-002. I will
open these two public hearings with staff comments.
Parsons: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. The subject site before
you is located on the west side of South Ten Mile Road, midway between West Tasa
Drive and Overland Road. Right now the property is currently zoned R-1 in Ada
County. The applicant is proposing to zone the property R-2 in the City of Meridian.
The preliminary plat consists of two residential lots, one consisting of 2.05 acres and the
other being 3.05 acres. The Comprehensive Plan designates this site of low density
residential, which is consistent with the requested zoning district. Although the zoning
and density is consistent with the land use map designation, the plan specifically states
that single family homes on large lots are to develop with urban services. The UDC
also requires the connection to city services for all residential districts to avoid scattered
development of land that results in a lack of water supply and sewer service. Currently
city services are not available to serve the proposed development and the applicant
does not intend to extend services to the site. City services are approximately 1,280
feet away from the current location or current property boundary. In addition to that, the
lack of city services, the applicant -- the proposed plat would take access from Davis
Lane, which connects to South Ten Mile Road. The Comprehensive Plan encourages
vehicular connectivity between planned and existing subdivisions and the UDC provides
provisions that -- that specify requirements for the creation and improvement of
roadways. The UDC requires all subdivisions to provide local street access to any use
that currently takes access from an arterial street. In order for local street access to be
provided the applicant would have to reconstruct the portion of Davis Lane that abuts
the east side of the property, contingent upon ACHD. Staff did receive comments from
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October 26, 2010
Page 21 of 50
ACHD. In their staff report they have communicated to staff and this was conveyed to
Planning and Zoning Commission during the hearing that they would not be interested
in accepting that as a public roadway, as it would serve no public benefit. Since ACRD
is not willing to provide that access or accept that roadway, staff has -- the UDC doesn't
really. allow for single family homes to take access on a public street. So, therefore,
staff found that the site and the Commission also concurred with staff that the site did
not have public street frontage. For the reasons stated before you this evening,
Planning and Zoning Commission recommended denial at the P&Z Commission -- at
their hearing on September 16th, 2010. Testifying in favor at the hearing was Becky
McKay. She also commented on the application. Staff did not receive any written
testimony for that hearing and none was provided and no one spoke in opposition. Key
items of discussion by Commission during the hearing. The Commission discussed
development requirements. So, for example, what would it take this property to develop
in the county and, then, also what were the agreements between the city and the county
via the Title 9 agreement. They also discussed other properties to the north that could
develop, given the fact that ACRD is currently in negotiations of right of way for this
property along the frontage of this property. There is a potential for the existing
driveway that serves the existing home site to nearly front on South Ten Mile. It won't
directly front on the roadway, but it's close enough to where it could impact vehicles
wanting to enter Ten Mile Road. And so that was a discussion that they had. They had
concerns with some of the commercial development proposed along the interstate, that
there could be some conflict interests between traffic on that roadway given the impact
Ten Mile would have with future development. So, recommended changes by
Commission at the hearing, there were none. Again, staff has not received additional
comments since the P&Z hearing. So, really, the outstanding issues before Council this
evening is the nonconformity as far as the requirements of the UDC and the
Comprehensive Plan. It's not -- is it in the best interest of the city to annex property that
does not provide a public street network or city and sewer-water and, then, also before
you is the applicant is also requesting a waiver to not the the Ridenbaugh Canal and
there is also a service ditch that is -- that bisects the property and they are asking
that that be -- remain open as well. I would point out to Council staff was in favor of
leaving that service ditch open, provided that they included it as an amenity with the
subdivision. That concludes my presentation. Again, Planning and Zoning Commission
has recommended denial, as well as staff, and I'll answer any questions Council may
have.
de Weerd: Thank you, Bill. Council, any questions?
Bird: Not right now.
Rountree: Not right now.
de Weerd: Does the applicant have any comments? Good evening. I see your Bronco
colors.
McKay: I couldn't resist. It is game day. I even have orange shoes.
Meridian City Council
October 26, 2010
Page 22 of 50
de Weerd: They are up.
McKay: Becky McKay, Engineering Solutions, 1029 North Rosario, Meridian. This is
just a little under six acres. As Bill indicated, there is an existing private lane that's
paved called Davis Lane. It's 25 feet wide that runs along the frontage of this property.
This property has approximately 270 feet of frontage on Davis Lane. The parcel is
owned by Russ and Karen Hunemiler. There is an existing estate home, kind of
situated in the middle of the property and an accessory building just to the south of that.
This area is primarily developed with acre lots. It's zone R-1 in the county. The map
that's -- that's before you there, you can see that in the orange, the R-1 zone -- and
that's been there since '70s. In fact, the first subdivision I ever laid out is Acre View
Estates, right there, and it was an R-1 zone that we did one acre lots with septics and
wells. The second map that you see, we, basically, highlighted all of the existing lots
out there that are less than five acres, are occupied by homes and currently have
existing septics and wells. As you can see, the subject property is bounded by the
Ridenbaugh -- oh, dang it. Sorry, Bill. The Ridenbaugh Canal comes across Ten Mile,
wraps up around and, then, comes back around, so it's to the west -- on the west
boundary and, then, it's over just off of the east boundary of the property. We have
worked diligently with Ada County Highway District, because they are in the process of
acquiring right of way for a rebuild of that section of Ten Mile. There will be a complete
reconstruction of the Ridenbaugh bridge, so they needed a substantial amount of right
of way from my client. We cooperated, coordinated with them and that right of way has
been dedicated. All the paperwork has been completed and sent to the district. They
are going to elevate Ten Mile Road and, then, that will help them intersect with that new
overpass and interchange. As far as access the point of Davis Lane to Ten Mile, the
highway district will be reconstructing that, but it stays primarily the same as it has
historically looked. Next one, Bill. As you can see the property is rectangular in shape.
Here is the Ridenbaugh Canal here. Ridenbaugh Canal as it crosses Ten Mile at this
location. This is where Davis Lane comes in. Like I said, it's a paved roadway, comes
up. It serves 11 existing homes. That was an Ada County approved private road in
1977 and, like I said, it is paved. Twenty-five feet wide. It was constructed to Ada
County Highway District standards, which for years were that you would provide a base
that was the same as what ACHD required, you just didn't have to pave as wide a
section, and they did not require curb, gutter, and sidewalk. What we are proposing is
Mr. Hunemiler wants to partition this existing home on one lot and, then, we are going to
create another driveway off of Davis Lane back to the western section. The purpose of
that is he wants to construct a new home for him and his wife. Their daughter has came
up I think from another state and they are going to have her live in the existing home
and they want to build a luxury home on the western section. This is kind of a unique
situation, because Meridian doesn't have anything that's comparable to that R-1 zone.
The best we can ask for, the lowest is the R-2, which is 12,000 square foot. We are
kind of a square peg dealing with round holes in a comp plan, round holes in an
ordinance. We don't quite fit. We can't go to the county, because the new area of
impact agreement says you shall request annexation to the city if you're contiguous to
the city. We are contiguous at this point right here with South Ridge. So, you have got
Meridian City Council
October 26, 2010
Page 23 of 50
an urban development that's going to take place there. I have talked to the county and
they have indicated that, you know, that's predominately R-1. The staff said they don't
object to, you know, what we are proposing here. There is an existing septic and well
for that home. This is a -- oop. There is a picture of the existing home here. That's kind
of a side view. This is Davis Lane. As you can see it's very tailored, very manicured. A
lot of those homes are very large estate homes. Davis Lane comes in right there. This
is the Ridenbaugh Canal here. This is Mr. Hunemiller's property. He's got a -- kind of a
landscaped area here with flowers and, then, his existing driveway comes up between
these trees. Bill, can you go back to the other -- the other thing we have is there is an
existing easement here. It's 75 feet. That's the Williams pipeline that traverses this
area. In talking with Ada County Highway District, when the staff mentioned that a
public street would be more appropriate, the highway district evaluated it and they said
that the Ridenbaugh Canal wraps all through this area. It's predominately developed
with one acre lots. We don't see any public benefit whatsoever to go in and build a
short section of public street. If this were public I'd also have to do a public turnaround
right there, which would be right in the front yard. So, it just doesn't make any logical
sense to do that. And the highway district said it's a nice private road, functions
properly, there is only 11 homes on it, you're proposing one additional home. That's it?
We don't have a problem with it. So, that's kind of where we left off. Now, the staff
indicated, well, it's got to be a public street if you're going to do single family homes.
Well, the code does not address an existing private street. That's a new private street.
It says private streets are allowed for multi-family. Private streets are not allowed for
single family, but this is existing. I looked at the definition in your code. It talks about
the definition of a street is a private or public right of way that provides vehicular access
to adjacent properties. Term street shall include -- and it gives road, thoroughfare,
parkway, avenue, lane, place and highway and it says street frontage is the distance
measured along the property line which fronts upon a street that provides vehicular
access. So, the existing Davis Lane, based on the ordinance, meets that definition of a
street. I'm not proposing new streets, I'm proposing a driveway. We had our
neighborhood meeting. Mr. and Mrs. Johnston were in attendance and they are
supportive of our application. The only thing they asked of me is to provide a wide
enough area that we could put like a ten foot landscaped area with trees and, then,
inset the driveway going back to the back portion. Our sewer and water -- the sewer
and the water is at the new Overland intersection, which is located 1,280 feet south.
Staff indicated that the Public Works staff -- they said, you know, that's really not within
a reasonable distance. You're only building one lot or asking for one additional lot out
there and so we felt that we support a waiver to connect to services, central sewer and
water, if -- with a condition that when those services are available in your development
agreement, that you would have six months to make a connection for these two existing
homes -- or the two homes. So, my client said he is in agreement with that and, then,
as we submitted, then, things kind of -- the wheels kind of fell off. This is kind of one of
those unique situations that doesn't fit the normal mold of development. All we want to
do is my client wants to build a new home and put his daughter in the existing home. I
know there have been occasions where Mayor de Weerd said why can't we have more
estate lots in Meridian. We would like to see some of those, two acre, three acre, four
acre. Well, your ordinance and comp plan really don't allow for that, unless, you know,
Meridian City Council
October 26, 2010
Page 24 of 50
we are pulling central sewer and water -- I mean according to the staff. The Council,
obviously, has the right to grant a wavier, but what we have here is not your standard
run-of-the-mill subdivision. I mean like the county said to us, this is no different than a
one-time split and if you were eligible for one, you wouldn't have to do anything,
because it's been R-1 out there years and years. The staff mentioned a concern about
that area redeveloping. Well, with the existing homes, the placement of the homes, the
fact that it's all R-1 out there and most of those homes are already developed on the R-
1, as far as redevelopment, the chances are pretty darn slim and the position of the
homes to the north of us, they sit on pretty narrow, deep lots. You also have the
Williams pipeline. So, as far as crossing it, I talked to Mr. Tarbett at Williams's pipeline,
he indicated that they did not object. The low density, they like to see that. They like
the fact that we put that in a separate lot. Most of it's already landscaped with grass
and turf and he said I'll even allow a few trees along the perimeter as long as you have
a specific offset from our pipe. That pipe is about five feet deep. So, in other
developments where I have dealt with that type of facility, crossing it with a public street
is real tough, because the depths vary from 36 inches to five feet and they say they
can't tell you until they go out and they pothole it, but taking public streets over it is
always a difficult situation. So, I just don't see that area redeveloping and I'm not sure
why, you know, anyone would think that, oh, my gosh, you know, it's just going to open
up the whole can of worms. This is a really unique situation and, like I said, I got a
square peg, I'm trying to fit it in a round hole. I thought it made sense, annex to the City
of Meridian, enter into a development agreement, specific conditions, the city gets the
taxes, the city gets the building permits, fees -- it made sense. Obviously, not everyone
agrees with me. Can I answer any question?
de Weerd: Council, questions?
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Question, Becky. And you answered it, but I just want to go through it again
about the other existing lots. I have seen pictures of this area and I have been up there,
but it's been awhile. What I'm concerned about what you're proposing is that okay, a
few other folks do the same thing. I mean you have a private street and adding to that,
you know, that -- then it becomes problematic is the situation, where if we allow one,
then, we are going to have other requests come through the door and we are just
adding -- adding to it, going from an estate situation to a subdivision.
McKay: Madam Mayor, Councilman Hoaglun, this -- oh, shoot. Every time I touch it
goes -- the lot to the north of us, that house sits -- as you can see, that lot narrows
down. How do I keep it from doing that? This lot next down -- well, you can see the
house here. There isn't room to get back behind their home. Oh. There isn't a lot of
room. The house sits right here. This one the house sits here. They have got an
accessory building that's back in here. You have got the pipeline that's coming this
direction like that. So, as far as these other properties, they are going to -- they just
Meridian City Council
October 26, 2010
Page 25 of 50
don't have the room to get around the houses with the driveways. They are also -- they
area narrowing up with that pipeline and that -- you know, you're going to have to have
-- you got that 75 foot swath back there. I guess if this were more than two lots I would
probably agree with you. You know, hey, this is a subdivision. But, you know, this is
just to create one additional lot, with one additional septic and well, so he can built a
new house. I don't have any other avenue to do this but this process. I did do an
analysis of the sewer and the water, which is located at this Ten Mile -Overland
intersection. I, basically, did a quantity take off and my estimate is 140 to 150 thousand
dollars to take sewer and water down to that one lot, which is cost prohibitive, obviously.
Hoaglun: I appreciate, Becky, you answered my question. That -- that detail helps.
appreciate that.
McKay: Okay. Thank you.
de Weerd: Any other questions?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I don't have a question for Becky, but for Pete. You're an old county guy.
Friedman: Yes, Council Member Rountree, you do remind me of that on occasion.
Rountree: Yeah. So -- and I understand the predicament that the two of us have
created for these folks, but does the city have the ability to waive the requirement in our
area and allow this to go through the county process, which sounds like it could just be
a one time split.
Friedman: Madam Mayor, Council Member Rountree, Council Members, it's not
particularly a waiver. Our Title 9 agreement with Ada County says that applications for
planned development subdivisions and rezones within the City of Meridian urban
service planning area shall occur as a result of a request for annexation by the city.
However, the county may consider such applications in those exceptions where the
annexation is not approved by the city. So, shortly put, if this application is denied,
then, they have the option of going to the county for a subdivision.
McKay: A two lot subdivision.
Friedman: Two lot subdivision.
McKay: It would be a two lot subdivision.
Meridian City Council
October 26, 2010
Page 26 of 50
de Weerd: And I guess on the flip side of that is -- staff doesn't have the opportunity to
waive these, you do and staff comments are based on our existing code. So, they are
the bad guys, you guys are the good guys.
Rountree: Yeah. Right.
de Weerd: But, you know, you can -- you can decide that, as Becky has stated, that for
this particular circumstance, because of the oddities that you can waive. The hook-ups
and keep the private road. That's what it comes down to; right?
McKay: Yes, ma'am. That's what we are asking for with specific conditions that we
would hook up at a later date.
Rountree: Or deny it and they can do it easier through the county.
McKay: We would just have to start all over and go through the same process.
De Weerd: Yeah. So, easier?
McKay: Kind of redundant.
Hoaglun: And that's part of my thinking, Madam Mayor and Councilman Rountree, is if
this later on comes back to us, if that's the process -- earlier I was thinking, well, why
don't they just go to the county, you know, get -- you know, that's a new area and we
are now contiguous and you got to kind of mentally keep up here and I was thinking why
don't they just go to the county, do a split and be done with it, but, you know, with that
change, if the county were to approve that, would we be willing to accept that if that was
presented to us as an annexation of all these lots and this -- this area was -- would we
say, oh, well, we can't have that private road, different things, If we have, you know,
hook up to sewer, if that's up there at that time, they will probably have to do something
in the future, but that's down the road. I would think, okay, that would be eligible to
become into the city limits. I don't see us turning that down at a future date and if that
site was split, as being proposed. So, I'm thinking, okay, if we rejected it, if it was
approved in the county later on, how do we deal with the request that's before you now?
I mean if we kick it back to the county and they do it and, then, it's going to come back
to us at some future point to say, okay, now all of us want to come into the city, do we
say, no, you have got this -- this lot that's got two houses on it, we are going to reject
the whole thing, which I don't think we'd do. So, I guess I'm kind of arguing maybe we
ought to deal with it as a city and -- with this and -- you know, and move forward from
there, but that's just my thinking on it.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Meridian City Council
October 26, 2010
Page 27 of 50
Bird: I agree with Councilman Hoaglun. I think we can take a look at it and deal with it.
We have done this type of stuff before. Get us a good DA that's workable between both
parties for us and proceed with it. That would be my opinion. I think it's a nice project
for Meridian and, you know, we have never been bit by doing things outside of the city
yet.
de Weerd: Well, this is a public hearing, so I will see if there is anymore comments and
we will wrap this up. Thank you. Is there any further testimony on this item? Council,
do you need any additional information from staff? I didn't really throw you under the
bus. I think you're great people.
Friedman: It was never taken that way.
de Weerd: I just know -- you have to get used to the tone, right?
Friedman: That's right.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Pete, between you and the applicant, you guys could probably come up with a
pretty iron clad DA I'd think that would be agreeable for everybody that would look out
for that applicant, plus the city.
Friedman: Madam Mayor, Councilmen, Council Member Bird, if that's the pleasure of
the Council we would, then, recommend that you continue this for two weeks to give us
time to come up with some conditions, work with legal and the applicant.
Bird: Well, this is one Councilman that could go for that. I think it's a good project, but I
want a good DA in place, so we can look at it.
de Weerd: Well, Council, I'd recommend if it's -- if staff could do this, one week,
because two weeks is a workshop.
Friedman: Oh. I apologize.
de Weerd: So, if we could see if we could get something pulled together by next week,
otherwise, we will continue it until the third week.
Bird: Get an extra day. It's Wednesday next week.
de Weerd: Yeah. Next Wednesday.
Friedman: Oh, that's right. Okay.
Meridian City Council
October 26, 2010
Page 28 of 50
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: If we go that direction my concern is that those items that we would waive if
we were to move forward with this be dealt with in the DA in such a way as that we don't
put ourselves in a bind when the inevitable happens and that's the annexation of the
adjacent properties and I would guess that all of those a little smaller lots adjacent to the
interstate, once Ten Mile interchange is open up, somebody will be buying those and
that probably will change from residential to some form of commercial. It typically
happens that way. I wouldn't be surprised to see that happen. And become part of the
city. But I don't want us to waive things that put us in a box in the future on a private
lane, which always gets us.
Friedman: Madam Mayor, Council Members, just for your information, you know, that
development agreement will only cover this property and that small, small portion of
Davis Lane. So, anything that -- that we draft or craft for your consideration won't have
any effect on the rest of that -- on the rest of that private road back there.
Rountree: I understand that, but it will establish precedence for what happens in the
future. So, if we don't have something identified on that little piece, it could come back
and get us later.
Friedman: Yeah. I agree.
de Weerd: Okay. Any comment from the applicant? Do I have a motion?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would move that we continue public hearing AZ 10-002 and public hearing PP
10-002 until November 3rd, 2010.
Hoaglun: Second.
de Weerd: I have a motion and a second to continue these two items. All those in favor
say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
D. Public Hearing: RZ 10-002 for Raisin' Angels Subdivision by
Capital Hill Holdings, LLC Located at 1125 E. Pine Avenue
Request: Rezone Approval of 0.43 of an Acre with a C-N
Zoning District
Meridian City Council
October 26, 2010
Page 29 of 50
E. Public Hearing: CUP 10-010 for Raisin' Angels Subdivision by
Capital Hill Holdings, LLC Located at 1125 E. Pine Avenue
Request: Conditional Use Permit Approval for a Daycare
Center for up to Sixty (60) Children in a Proposed C-N Zoning
District
F. Public Hearing: PFP 10-003 for Raisin' Angels Subdivision by
Capital Holdings, LLC. Located at 1125 E. Pine Avenue
Request: Combined Preliminary /Final Plat Approval of 2
Building Lots on 0.96 of an Acre
de Weerd: Okay. Item 9-D, E and F are public hearings on RZ 10-002, 10-010, and 10-
003. I will open these three public hearings with staff comments.
Wafters: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. The subject property is
located on the south side of Pine Avenue, approximately a quarter mile west of Locust
Grove at 1125 East Pine Avenue. The first application is a request for a rezone of .43
of an acre portion of the site at the northwest portion of the property from the I-L to C-N.
That portion of the property contains an existing structure that was previously approved
for an office -- accessory office to the adjacent warehouse building. There is also a
conditional use permit proposed fora 1,187 square foot daycare center in the existing
building for up to 60 children in a propose C-N zoning district. Then, Ijust -- should note
the remainder of the property where the industrial building is located will remain I-L. A
preliminary-final plat combination is also proposed that consists of two building lots on
.96 of an acre. This is a site plan for the proposed daycare. Existing building is here on
the left at the northwest corner of the site. The existing industrial multi-tenant building is
here at the east side of the property. There is one existing driveway access to the site
that serves both properties here or both of the proposed properties I should say on the
plat from Pine. The Commission recommended approval of these applications at their
September 16th, 2010, public hearing. Summary of the Commission public hearing,
Walter Lindgren, Jane Sackett, Alecia Parker, Matthew Martin, Desiree Johnson,
Stephanie Jaroloman and Shannon Stone were all in favor of the application. No one
spoke in opposition or commented on the application. Walter Lindgren, the applicant,
did submit written testimony in response to the staff report. Key issues of discussion by
the Commission were the future land use map designation of mixed use community
versus the I-L, light industrial zoning. The importance of retaining industrial zoned
property for industrial uses and the intensity of the types of uses allowed in the C-N
versus the C-C zoning district. Key Commission changes to staff recommendation.
The Commission recommended approval of the rezone and Conditional Use Permit and
preliminary/final plat with no modifications to the staff report as requested by the
applicant. Outstanding issues for Council: Because staff recommended denial of the
rezone and Conditional Use Permit, no conditions of approval for those applications
were included in the staff report reviewed by the Commission. Since the Commission
hearing and their recommendation of approval for the rezone and conditional use, staff
has revised the report to include conditions of approval for those applications. Staff was
previously recommending approval of the preliminary and final plat application and had
Meridian City Council
October 26, 2010
Page 30 of 50
included conditions for that application. The Commission did not review or recommend
approval of those provisions or conditions. No written testimony has been submitted
since the Commission meeting. Staff will stand for any questions that Council may
have.
de Weerd: Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none.
Wafters: Just a side note. I forgot to mention these are the elevations of the existing
building where the daycare is proposed. Front. Side. On the west boundary. The west
boundary is where the play area for the proposed daycare will be. It will be fenced.
This is the rear elevation where the parking lot is, where parents will be dropping off and
picking up their children. And this is the east side of the property where the driveway
access to Pine is. And this is the preliminary plat and final plat proposed by the
applicant. Any questions?
de Weerd: Thank you. Is the applicant here? Good evening.
Lindgren: Good evening. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, my name is Walter
Lindgren with Johnson Architects, 440 East Corporate Drive here in Meridian. I'm
representing the client here, who is a property owner of this particular property. As staff
had mentioned, this is a proposal to split the existing lot, so that they may isolate this
particular property and, then, rezone this property to a -- what we are proposing as a
commercial neighborhood. With that, whether it was a commercial neighborhood or a
C-C, which is a commercial -- whatever the C-C designation is. I'm not sure specifically.
Regardless, it would require a conditional use application, so that's -- that's kind of
where we find ourselves here today. If staff wouldn't mind highlighting the aerial map as
best you can. I have even got soft copies for you.
Wafters: That's fine, if staff could figure out how to do it.
Lindgren: There you go.
Wafters: Having issues with the computer. I'm sure how to get rid of it.
Lindgren: There you go. Perfect. Okay. So, the graphic you see in front of you is just
a general depiction of a site aerial map. It also highlights the existing and designated
uses for this particular area. So, you will see the site marked as the red building there
and -- and currently as an I-L property -- I think what's interesting to note is this
particular location of an I-L property -- and while l can understand in theory what staff is
suggesting that -- in terms of spot zoning and staffs recommendation not to -- not to do
that, I think this is a unique case where you have a particular property that is adjacent to
a street on the edge of what I would call the I-L area and as you will see to the north
and to the west, heavily residential as you enter into the downtown area. And I think it's
interesting to note that this particular area was designated as a mixed use commercial
Meridian City Council
October 26, 2010
Page 31 of 50
zone. Originally I think one of the arguments that has been presented is that since it
has since developed as an industrial use area, that that ought to drive the conversation.
I think one of the reasons why you probably see more industrial use there -- and I would
even argue not so much heavy industrial, but these are more flex office warehouse
buildings that are there -- is that, you know, you have got a lot of deep, deep parcels,
deep lots that are off Pine. This is one that's right adjacent -- and, again, it will show by
some of the photos of the surrounding areas you will see, in fact, it's primarily
surrounded by residential uses. So, a couple other items to note. Actually, if staff
wouldn't mind highlighting -- I think it's photos -- if you can find them. Maybe just go
with this real quick. Or we can just thumb through these. But this is just -- photo one
just kind of shows an existing shot of that flex warehouse space towards the rear. You
can go through these first couple quick, if you don't mind. Again, this is the rear parking
lot, once again, showing the flex warehouse space right off Pine. And, then, photo
three, photo four. This is the drop off area on the south side of the building. Continue.
This is showing the west side of the site. Again, the west side of the site where the
proposed playground area is. Plenty of room for fenced area. I don't think that's
necessarily an issue. Pine Street view back at the site from the west. And, then, as you
get into photos nine and ten and 11 as you go on, you will start to see some of the
residential uses, that are to the north. So, while it is designated I-L, I mean there is
plenty of residential uses and not -- not to mention this -- you know, Pine slowly
developing as a gateway to the city, I don't know if an industrial use designation may be
not arguably be compatible for this location as you get closer to the downtown area.
Again, just some other photos I think which are interesting to note. As we also start to
get into photos 15 and 16, I think it is, I have highlighted two examples off of Franklin
Road as you enter in off of -- let's stop right there if you don't mind. This is a shot from
Baltic looking to the south and that's the architectural building supply building there right
off of Baltic, so very much they are kind of a similar situation, arguably, that you have
some industrial uses. If you go to the next photo, if you don't mind, Sonya. This is just,
again, a study showing this is the -- one of the commercial office buildings that is -- and,
again, which is an otherwise industrial use behind it and I think the reason why those
industrial uses work so well is because they are so deep and not really compatible for
other -- other type uses, which is unfortunate, because daycare is not an approved use
in an I-L and, basically, what the client and the owner of the property is asking for is to
allow that use. I mean they have spent many months that that building sat unoccupied
and had very little luck in receiving any bites as far as leasing for that type of use.
Again, we proposed a C-N approach. We are not opposed to the C-C designation.
Frankly, we thought the C-N was more compatible with what the city wanted to see
there, more light -- light retail with some more restrictions than a C-C would offer. So,
again, if that's -- if that has any bearing we are certainly willing to look at that. And just
a couple of other notes with respect to the daycare center. We did meet with the police
department as far as drop off. That was one concern that they would have cueing cars
coming off of Pine Street. We assured the police side of things that the drop off is on
the south side. There is plenty of opportunity for that to happen. In fact, we can have
Janie, who is the proposed tenant, to address this. At any given time she believes that
it will probably have no more than max five folks -- five cars at any one time dropping
off, because the nature of her business is such that they -- they don't come all at once
Meridian City Council
October 26, 2010
Page 32 of 50
and they don't pick up all at once. They are a very staggered transient type occupation.
So, while we show six -- up to 60 children, that's, basically, based off of what the code
will allow. The code allows 35 occupants per square foot and 60 occupants is what the
code will allow. So, that's what we are showing, even though she may or may not even
ever hit that point. And she is present here if Council would like to address some
questions to her. So, I will stand for questions at this time and I know we do have some
folks here that would like to also compliment my presentation.
de Weerd: Walt, how -- how does that drop off work? How is that circulation -- they go
in, drop off, and, then, back up and --
Lindgren: So, they would -- does it show up? Anyway, there is a -- there is -- generally
they don't have as much staff to generate that much parking requirements for this type
of building. So, the point being is that there is plenty of opportunity towards the front of
the building for a drop off. We have got a handicap accessible stall and accessible
pathway to the building, so there is plenty of drop off at the front of the building to offer
that drop off and a turn around and go. So, again, as I mentioned, the nature of the
business is not to have all kids arrive at one time, that's just -- that's just not the nature
of any of these businesses and I think Janie, who is the proposed tenant, could address
that better than I could. So, just on the south side of the building, to answer your
question.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor and Walt, it's hard to tell here, but the width is enough to
accommodate traffic coming in and out it looks like in that driveway.
Lindgren: Madam Mayor, Council Member Hoaglun, that's correct.
Hoaglun: Okay. And what's the approximate length of that? It's hard to -- I can't read
any of the numbers there. What -- from street to the -- to the last turn into the parking
lot. What's that distance?
Lindgren: Council Member Hoaglun, that's the first drive?
Hoaglun: The last drive one to the -- that would be to the south.
Lindgren: To the south. That property line is -- you can -- I don't know if you can tell, it
looks like it's in the nature of 220 feet. So, 150 I would suspect, plus or minus, the best
I can tell.
de Weerd: Any other questions from Council? I will invite you back up to wrap up.
Lindgren: Appreciate it, Madam Mayor. Thank you.
de Weerd: Okay. This is a public hearing. Is there anyone who would like to provide
testimony on this item? I do have asign-up sheet. When I call your name and indicate
Meridian City Council
October 26, 2010
Page 33 of 50
your support, if you would like to come forward and provide testimony at that time,
would invite you forward. Jane Sackett signed up in favor. Good evening.
Sackett: Good evening. I don't know which one to talk into, so -- I'm Janie Sackett. My
address is 1533 West Rainbow Trout here in Meridian.
de Weerd: Thank you.
Sackett: I am the owner of Raising Angels right now. I actually run an in-home at this
moment. Been doing it for six, almost seven years now, and all of my parents the whole
time along have said, Janie, you have got to open a center, you have got to open a
center and, you know, who wants to run a daycare out of their house the whole time, it
gets a little crazy. So, I have been looking for years for a place. I looked at several
different locations in Meridian as I talked to Planning and Zoning. I even looked at
trying to get financing to buy a place, which with the economy right now it's just not
going to happen. I did talk with a bank and they said that if I could lease a building for a
year that they would be willing to finance me then, but, you know, so that I can make it
happen. Pretty much I -- it's -- I have got many clients I have got that want to start. As
soon as everybody said, oh, Janie's starting a new daycare, all of a sudden I have got
people calling me up going, hey, can I -- can I get in? And I'd say, well, we are not open
yet, but I'll give you a call as soon as I can and people have been waiting for months.
This is a project that we have been working on for six months now and, basically, that's
-- I mean if you have any questions for me I'd love to answer them. I want to get some
people to get some jobs in there, it's a building that's been sitting empty and with our
economy right now that's something that I don't like seeing and it not only takes away
business from me, because when my parents lose their jobs, then, I lose money and,
you know, this is something that can help everybody with.
de Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions?
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor and Janie, this by square footage it sounds like you could
have legally up to 60. What are you looking for realistically in your business plan?
Sackett: Realistically it's more between I would say around 45 children. Obviously,
enrollment versus how many children show up every day between illnesses and parents
having days off and scheduling, you're usually around 45 kids. I would -- that's what I'm
guesstimating for. Obviously, we can have up to 60, but I would say when we would
have the most children would be when school agers come back after school from 4:00
to 5:00 p.m., that's always the crazy time. They come back from school and we have
more kids in the building and that would be the leeway for up to 60 children. Otherwise,
during the day, you know, we could have a room with six infants, eight toddlers, ten
three year olds, 12 four year olds, and probably about 12 five years olds slash
Meridian City Council
October 26, 2010
Page 34 of 50
kindergartners. So, you know, you're looking around 48, maybe 50 kids there and, then,
school age, so -- and that's if everybody shows up, which I have been doing daycare for
about eight -- well, 15 years now and that doesn't usually happen. It can happen, but --
and that's why we have that up to 60 there, but it's not always going to happen. And the
other thing to consider, too, is that it's not like we are going to have 60 cars coming in
every day. For example, you have families with more than one child that -- it's more
common to have two children in a family than it is to have one or even three sometimes,
so --
Hoaglun: And, Madam Mayor, another, Janie. How many employees -- if you have -- if
you're in that 45 to 50 range --
Sackett: It would be anywhere between six and eight and, then, including myself. So,
we can -- it's -- just because you have your full-time teachers during the day and, then,
also have relief teachers that will come in the afternoon to send the other teachers
home.
Hoaglun: Because that would take up some of the parking spots, you know, and got to
take that into consideration, so -- and you answered one of the questions I had and
that's kind of -- if you knew of a breakdown of how many kids that are part time versus
full time, because that -- there is the coming and going at different times, depending on
when they are -- if they are in school or not in school, so --
Sackett: Right.
de Weerd: Any further questions from Council? Thank you.
Sackett: Thank you.
de Weerd: Marsha Ward signed up in favor. You don't have to provide testimony if you
don't want to. I'm reading these into the record, so if you would like to comment
certainly I would invite you forward. Brandy Brewer signed up in favor. Hi. If you will,
please, state your name and address for the record.
Brewer: My name is Brandy Brewer and I currently reside at 12405 West Ingleman,
Boise, Idaho.
de Weerd: Thank you.
Brewer: I am actually coming up -- I'm a future employee. I'm also a dear friend of
Janie's and I met her -- she was actually my child care provider for my nine year old.
And I know how hard it is, especially as a single parent, to find a child care that is cost
effective for your family, works with your schedule and she's willing to stay open longer
hours for people who work at call centers and warehousing and retail. I also know how
hard it is to find quality child care that you can trust. I also have ran an in-home day
care and when she says that they don't all show up, when you have a small portion of
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October 26, 2010
Page 35 of 50
kids in your home there is usually at least one that doesn't show up. So, yeah, we will
not have 60 at all times, it just -- it's not feasible. They come and go. I have been
talking to the people over at -- I'm sorry, it's late. Blue Cross of Idaho. Sorry. And I
have a letter here that has been sent to me. Blue Cross employees have repeatedly in
their town meetings requested that Blue Cross put a daycare in their facility.
Unfortunately, Blue Cross wants to be able to keep the costs down for our community
and so they don't find it feasible for them or the liability of having a child care on their
site and we actually have had a petition going around Blue Cross -- we have it with us --
of parents that are interested in having a child care in the area and, unfortunately, Blue
Cross just isn't willing to do it. With that kind of business employees, they don't make a
lot of money, they range from probably ten dollars to 15 dollars, for the most part.
When you get to having child care and child care can cost anywhere from, you know, 75
dollars a week to 250 dollars a week. When you can't find child care for less than 200
dollars a week and you're only making ten to 15 dollars an hour, that takes up a third to
a half of your paycheck and you cannot support your family on that. It becomes a point
where it's cheaper to live off of welfare rather than have a job and these people that
want to work can't, because they can't raise their change. They don't have enough
money. Well, Raising Angels has always had that idea that to keep their costs low
that's one reason why I went to her, although I was on the south side of Meridian, on the
other side of the freeway, I also worked on the south side, I drove over to where her
current residence is, because I knew that she was quality, low cost, and she would work
with my schedule that I worked until 7:45. And she will continue to do that. And that is
something that is very much needed in the community. She has always had St. AI's
Meridian -- or St. Luke's Meridian contact her when we were previously looking for a
place and I was helping her trying to find a place, talking about putting a place in
Portico. Well, unfortunately, Portico they wanted you to buy the spot and she couldn't
do that at the time. Scentsy has also shown interest in having her put one close by and
this is, actually, a central location that the hospital, Scentsy, Blue Cross of Idaho T-
Mobile is just right on the other side of the freeway. There is many areas around that
have different schedules that she can help parents have child care with. And I think it's
very important to enable people to continue working and support their families.
de Weerd: Thank you. We appreciate your testimony. Okay. If, Cody, I say your last
name wrong, forgive me. Scheon. Cody Scheon is signed up in favor. Okay.
Elizabeth Schenstrom for.
Schenstrom: My name is Elizabeth Schenstrom. I'll spell that for you. It's
S-c-h-e-n-s-t-r-o-m. My address 2521 North Greenfield Avenue in Kuna, Idaho. 83634.
de Weerd: Thank you.
Schenstrom: I am for Jane Sackett and the reason I do say what Brandy had
mentioned before is she does very well accommodate for the different hours. I worked
at a call center, that's how I had originally found her. Just as an employee, as a parent,
for the daycare that she does provide, I had the episode when I first started working that
I had a two year old. My three year old now. But I had a really bad experience where
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October 26, 2010
Page 36 of 50
he was beaten, pretty much, with welt marks. So, as a point I couldn't really afford to
lose my job and a friend had referred me and said, oh, well, you should really meet her,
my son's been going there for years, you know, so the first thing you want to do is take
your child in and see how they react after a situation to that effect. I walked in her
home, I didn't call, I just kind of randomly showed up and she was perfectly fine with
that. My son came in, he looked around, she introduced herself, and he went right to
her. So, that point for me had just really gave me an ease of the child care and her
overall personality for my son to be able to do that, because he wouldn't go to the other
daycare provider, he would cry. So, for her to be able to provide my son that sympathy
and forme to explain that situation -- as you can see it still gets me a little shaken up.
de Weerd: I can understand that.
Schenstrom: Yeah. You know. And even to this day I have become friends with Janie
Sackett. Right now I have lost my job at the call center. My husband was military, so I
was able to provide and still stay at home at that time. Now I'm going to go back to
school. I was a little disappointed when she said right now she doesn't have any
openings, but she's going to be opening up another center, which is, hopefully, about
the time I will be starting school in January. So, for her to be able to open up my child
to be able to go back there again, would just be really great. And I know other parents
that I know who also are military and need slightly different child care and she has a
new born, she's waiting for Janie to start, because right now she has amother-in law
baby-sitting. So, as you can see kind of referral, personal reference, she's just really
awesome.
de Weerd: I can see she has a lot of word of mouth.
Schenstrom: Yes, she does. It's her personality overall that makes her a great child
care provider and she's just an overall great person. Kids love her. When you walk in
and you introduce -- and she introduces herself, it's just a really amazing environment.
She takes the time to introduce herself to the kids. She greets them. She says
goodbye to them. My son runs and gives her a hug when he leaves, you know what I'm
saying? It's just -- it's a really at-home environment. I know the center will a little bit
more busy and she will be able to provide them with like the pre-school and everything.
My son listens -- would listen to her great. He's just -- he listens to her, he looks at her,
and when we go by to stop by and say hi and just kind of go by, because, of course,
they are friends, he loves it. The first thing he does is go to her little play room and just
kind of hangs out and says bye mom. He doesn't want to go home. So, I think opening
the center is just great overall. I mean it's just -- I mean you don't walk into a daycare
and feel where you're just totally happy that you can leave your child there and know
you can go to work and they are going to be safe.
de Weerd: We appreciate your comments. Elizabeth Schenstrom -- oh, that was you. I
apologize. Stephanie Joralemon. Joralemon. Okay. See, I have to give that preface
that I will probably mess up a number of names. So, I apologize, Stephanie.
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October 26, 2010
Page 37 of 50
Joralemon: That's okay. My name is Stephanie Joralemon and I reside at 3968 West
Park Creek Drive in Meridian. As you can tell by listening to everybody here this
evening already, Janie is an amazing daycare provider and she's offering us a service in
our community that is much needed in that area for parents who only work -- not only
work in that area, but also for her reliability of busing our children to a local school.
Everybody knows about the busing issue that a lot of us have had with the Meridian
School District and so having that, being able to drop our children off with somebody in
the morning and know that we can go to work and continue to do our jobs and that they
will be able to safely get to school is very important to most of us parents. Also the
other thing that I'd like to address is she mentioned the jobs, the creation of jobs, and I
think us as a community, being a community member in Meridian and believing in my
city, that it is very important for us to focus on opening our arms to any kind of small
business that wants to come into our community, create jobs for our community
members and for our people and I think that that's something that we need to consider
here as well. We have an empty building where there is, you know, nobody out, we
don't know when it's going to be filled. They said that it has been empty for awhile in a
-- kind of a sticky part where there is -- there is not a lot of other businesses there and I
think it would be important to offer those jobs to the members of our community who are
in a great time of need.
de Weerd: Thank you. We appreciate your testimony. Alicia Parker. Signed up for.
Parker: Alicia Parker, 3595 North Chatterton Way, Boise. One thing, Madam Mayor
and Council Members, that I would like you to consider is I'm a future occupant of the
six story office building at Portico Meridian development. I'm also part of the team that
is helping to construct that development. That development is one of the signature
pieces to the City of Meridian. It is bringing a tremendous amount of jobs to the area
that need to be supported by daycare. Quite a few of the businesses that are in that
have young family members and the need for daycare is great and there are not centers
in that close proximity, particularly for the people who live in Meridian to get to that area.
It would be a great location, both for the people in Meridian, the people in west Boise,
the people in south Boise, kind of a central location to the development that's happening
there and with the expansion of that future development the need will only grow for that
location.
de Weerd: Thank you. Joe Fink signed up also in favor. Okay. Thank you. Any
additional testimony? Okay. Walt, do you have any closing remarks?
Lindgren: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, again, Walter Lindgren with Johnson
Architects. So, I think as you can tell from the testimony from the folks here, Janie runs
a really - an exceptional operation there as far as daycare is concerned. I think the
question for the Council is this the appropriate site for such a use and if staff wouldn't
mind, again, throwing up that aerial map again, I'll just keep it simple. One graphic this
time. I think one of the arguments that has come up from staff has been that this is an
industrial -- light industrial use and as we know the proposed daycare center is not an
allowed use in an I-L use -- or zone. I think the question that should be asked -- or
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October 26, 2010
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ought to be asked is why was this originally designated as a mixed use designated area
and I think one of the answers that I can come -- have arrived at is that this is a gateway
to the city, restrictions on uses such as this daycare ought not be placed on a property
such as this. It's -- it's not that this is the middle -- smack in the middle of an industrial
designated area. It's really on the fringe of that area and, in fact, again, as this map
would indicate, it's surrounded primarily by residential uses. There you go. That's
perfect. Thank you, Sonya. So, again, I can fully appreciate staffs desire not to have
spot zoning as they had mentioned in the report, but it's not as if -- I think it would be a
different story if this was located square in the middle of this red -- red zone here. In
fact, it's on the edge. I think provides a nice edge to the street versus having industrial
uses there, frankly. So, with that I'd just stand for questions. I think it's just a good use
of the property, frankly.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor, Walt, you know, we have focused a lot on this -- on this
project and the daycare. The building to the east, what -- that's part of the property, it
will be -- the driveway will be used for that. If there is going to be some use in that
larger building, it looks like the parking lot is also for that building. What -- what's the
future of that building?
Lindgren: Madam Mayor, Brad -- Council Member Hoaglun, to address that, that's
really a flex warehouse space and it's -- there are individual tenants that lease those
spaces out. Of the half a dozen or so times that I have been over there to document
photos or just to do a site observation, there is zero to none activity in the parking area.
You have folks that -- I think there is various uses. I believe some of the uses are --
there is some powder coating shops there and they are primarily not uses that require
outside traffic to come in as a retail would. It's primarily folks that work within their --
within the shop, have orders that are, you know, taken out at different times or what
have you, but they are not -- there is not a lot of traffic by any means. The times that I
have been there to observe that site it's a very low -- a very low intensive use in terms of
traffic in and out of that property.
Hoaglun: And also another question on the play area. I think I read somewhere that it
is a sloping lot. How big is that play area to the west of the house; do you recall?
Lindgren: Council Member Hoaglun -- staff, you don't mind showing the photo maybe of
one of those -- I can't recall offhand the square footage. If memory serves it was
roughly around 1,500 square feet total -- of that grass lawn area.
Hoaglun: Yeah. Because the photo didn't show a slope per se, it --
Lindgren: Right.
Hoaglun: But is there a slope of some sort that would --
Lindgren: Council Member Hoaglun, I believe there is a subtle slope, yeah. That's the
west elevation. It's subtle. I don't know exactly what the grade is, but --
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October 26, 2010
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Hoaglun: It doesn't look like it's steep --
Lindgren: I don't think it's problematic to how they want to use that, so --
Hoaglun: Okay. Thanks.
Lindgren: To answer your question.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Brad's done?
de Weerd: Yeah.
Rountree: Walt, you indicated in your testimony previously that you didn't have any
issues with the C-C zoning that was in the staff report. I would note that it gives them a
little more flexibility in terms of times of operation, which might be of benefit to them. I
don't recall hearing anything about across-access agreements. Did you mention that?
Lindgren: Madam Mayor and Council Member Rountree, there is across-access
proposed in this, yes.
Rountree: Okay.
Lindgren: Cross-access and I believe cross-parking agreement between them. The
property owner would still maintain ownership of both properties. But, yes, there is
cross-access in that -- in that agreement.
Rountree: I guess a note of caution. We haven't take action on this, but I'll just throw
this out, is that you -- I agree with the concept of having daycare in these areas where
there is concentration of employees. I think it's a good thing. But in an industrial area,
even though it is a flex building, there could be something that's allowed and moves in
there that's either quite noisy or discharges something into the atmosphere that
probably would meet health department requirements, but might be kind of
objectionable. So, I guess just a note of warning, depending on what happens in this
building, is that those kinds of things can happen and there just needs to be an
understanding that that's where you're living.
Lindgren: Sure. Council Member Rountree, if I could address that, too, and to acfdress
the C-C issue. We initially proposed the neighborhood commercial and I don't have a
copy of how those are designated, how they read. It just seemed to me that the C-C
seemed more appropriate for what you might find along Eagle Road, for example. It
addressed larger retail components and so it just didn't seem compatible. Again, I think
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October 26, 2010
Page 40 of 50
either one would be fitting for this particular use. We were just trying to be a little bit
more compatible with this particular property and to address the issue of what might
happen in those adjacent -- that adjacent building, just keep in mind we currently have,
you know, just a right of way across the way, we have got residential uses. So, I think
everybody would certainly be hindered by any use that might otherwise be.
Rountree: I understand.
Lindgren: So, I mean it -- we are all kind of in that together.
Rountree: Just a note of caution.
Lindgren: Good point.
Rountree: It happens.
Lindgren: And it was a big part of the discussion of our Planning and Zoning hearing as
well.
Rountree: Thank you.
de Weerd: Anything further?
Bird: I don't.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor, Ijust -- not for Walt, but, actually, I just want to find out if the
police chief would -- the lieutenant and the chief --fire chief had any comments on this.
Overton: I'll start off. Mayor, Members of the Council, I was the one that met with Walt
on this project, because I was concerned about the narrow drive aisle and that the
actual -- the way the building is constructed it looks like the front door actually exits to
the north and the door to the south into the parking lot look more like a back door and
our requirement was we really need to use that back door as your front door. I don't
want parents and kids coming through that drive aisle or parking in that drive aisle and
there were absolutely no problems -- Walt, in fact, you saw it in the drawing where they
said they were not going to use the front door and they were going to use the door to
the south, because that was our major concern is that we don't know or can't control
what's going to come down that drive aisle for those other businesses.
Niemeyer: Madam Mayor, Councilman Hoaglun, Members of the Council, we have no
outstanding issue. I talked with Chief Silva about this today. They are well aware of the
limit on 60 children based on the square footage. We concur with that. As well as the
fact that daycares have a certain inspection type that we do different than other types of
inspections. They are aware of that as well. So, we have no outstanding issues.
de Weerd: Okay. Anything further from Council? Thank you.
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October 26, 2010
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Lindgren: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Council, if you have all the information you need,
I would entertain a motion.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move we close the public hearings on Item 9-D, E and F.
Bird: Second.
de Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearings on Item 9-D, E
and F. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT..
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we approve Item 9-D, rezone 10-002, but to have the rezone to a
C-C not, a C-N.
Bird: Second.
de Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 9-D with the changing to a
C-C.
Rountree: Yes.
de Weerd: Discussion? Okay. Madam Clerk, will you, please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, absent; Hoaglun, yea.
de Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
de Weerd: Okay. Item 9-D -- E. I mean 9-E.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
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October 26, 2010
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Rountree: I move that we approve Item 9-E, Conditional Use Permit 10-010 for the
subject daycare in a C-C zoning district.
Bird: Second.
de Weerd: I have a motion and a second for Item 9-E. I know that there were not
conditions prepared. These would be brought back at the next meeting?
Wafters: Madam Mayor, there are conditions in the staff report that have been prepared
since the Commission meeting.
de Weerd: Okay.
Rountree: And that would be subject to staff conditions.
de Weerd: Okay.
Bird: Second agrees.
de Weerd: Okay. If there is no discussion, Madam Clerk.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, absent; Hoaglun, yea.
de Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
de Weerd: 9-F.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we approve Item 9-D, PFP 10-003, final plat -- no. Yeah. Final
plat. With the annotation of cross-access and -- that's it.
Bird: Second.
de Weerd: I have a motion and a second on Item 9-F to approve. Any discussion?
Madam Clerk.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, absent; Hoaglun, yea.
de Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Meridian City Council
October 26, 2010
Page 43 of 50
G. Public Hearing: ZOA 10-002 for Unified Development Code
Text Amendment by City of Meridian Planning Department
Request: Unified Development Code (UDC) Text Amendment
to Modify and Clean Up Certain Sections of the UDC
de Weerd: Thank you for being with us this evening. Item 9-G is a public hearing on
ZOA 10-002. I will ask for staff comments at this time.
Watters: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. The next application
before you is a zoning ordinance amendment to amend the text of certain sections of
the Unified Development Code. The purpose of the amendment is the modify, clean up,
and add specific sections to the UDC that staff believes will make implementation and
use of the code more understandable and enforceable. Pertinent changing to the
Unified Development Code are as follows: Include construction in gravel mining in
definitions and allowed use tables as a conditional use in all residential, commercial,
and traditional neighborhood districts in the I-L district and a permitted use in the I-H
district. Remove temporary uses as an accessory use from the table in all residential,
commercial, industrial and traditional neighborhood districts. Include additional qualified
site amenities for subdivisions to include small business centers and fiber optic cable.
Include streetscape improvements in the standard for the Old Town district.
Amendment to fence regulations to allow for utility boxes and meters to be located
inside fence enclosures. Modify private street requirements to allow for limited gated
residential developments with development standards at the request of Council. Modify
term of permit for consistency. The same length of time at the request of City Council.
Please see section seven of the staff report for a complete list of the amendments.
Summary of the Commission public hearing. Planning department is in favor of this
application. No one testified in opposition or commented on the application and there
was no written testimony submitted. Key issues of discussion by the Commission.
There was discussion pertaining to the changes to the development -- or, excuse me,
definition of the adult entertainment. Key Commission changes to staff
recommendation. There were none. Outstanding issues before Council. Staff has
included a minor change to the specific use standards for education institutions in UDC
11-4-3-14A.3. It came to light when we discussed the recent portable classroom
revisions approved by Council last month, which allowed for accessory uses to be
allowed without a CZC, certificate of zoning compliance, when conducted within an
existing structure and when site modifications are not proposed and/or required. That
change is noted in the staff report in bold. The Commission recommended approval on
this application. There has been no written testimony since the Commission meeting.
Any questions that Council may have?
de Weerd: Council, any questions?
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor. Sonya, I just wanted to be sure when we discussed this when
this was in draft stages as we are looking at it -- and that was the mining issue. It does
not prohibit the normal removal of like top soil and the other things as they develop the
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October 26, 2010
Page 44 of 50
roads and different aspects of a subdivision, moving those to another location. That
doesn't fall under the definition of mining in this -- am I correct in that assessment, Pete
or Sonya?
Wafters: The definition of construction, sand and gravel mining is proposed to be the
use of a site for one or more of the following activities. The first is operating commercial
grade, i.e., construction, sand and gravel pits. Two, dredging for commercial grade
sand and gravel. And, three, washing, screening, or otherwise preparing commercial
grade sand and gravel.
Hoaglun: Okay. Great. Appreciate that. Because early on we were talking about
would that be if they were selling that top soil as part of the normal removal, is that
becoming a mining activity. So, I think this definition clarifies that.
Wafters: Okay.
Friedman: Madam Mayor, Council Members, Council Member Hoaglun. I think that in
combination with the changes we are proposing to the temporary construction sites on
your next agenda item address that, because you are right, we did have a situation
where they were doing their normal site -- or they were doing their site preparation for
their development. However, they also found a market for some of the excess materials
that they were taking off the site and that, in our opinion, did constitute mining -- if you
will, surface mining, which the code didn't address at all in the city. So, I think between
the two proposals, the amendments to the .UDC and, then, the amendments to Title 3 of
the city code, we should be able to capture that.
Hoaglun: Great. I appreciate that work on that. Thank you.
de Weerd: Any other questions, Council?
Bird: I have none.
de Weerd: This is a public hearing. Is there anyone who would like to provide
testimony? That would be the two of you.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we close the public hearing on Item 9-G.
Hoaglun: Second.
de Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing on Item 9-G. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
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October 26, 2010
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MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we approve Item 9-G with the text amendments for the UDC.
Hoaglun: Second.
de Weerd: I have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Hearing none, Madam
Clerk.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, absent; Hoaglun, yea.
de Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
H. Proposed Amendments to Meridian City Code Title 3 Chapter 4
Pertaining to Outdoor Sales and Temporary Uses
de Weerd: Item 9-H is discussion on proposed amendments to Meridian City Code,
Title 3, Chapter 4. I will turn this over to Pete.
Friedman: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Council Members. As we just noted in your
previous action, what we have done is we have removed all temporary uses from the
UDC as an accessory use, moved them into Title 3, which is -- currently takes up all
kinds of other special events and temporary activities within the city. So, what we have
done in conjunction with the city attorney's office is propose a definition and set of
standards for temporary construction sites as a temporary use, recognizing that there is
certain activities that go on there that are normal and accessory to the preparation for a
site that's being developed under the approval of a plat or a CZC or something like that.
It doesn't require a temporary use permit, it just acknowledges that those are activities
that can occur as a temporary use, establishes some standards for that and, then, there
is one other item that was a clean up item that should have been incorporated in the last
go around in your review of temporary -- approval of temporary uses and that has to do
with the authorization of certain special events in an area that may not be zoned for it,
but with the application and approval of a temporary use permit those might be allowed.
For example, you might have an empty warehouse building in an I-L zone and
somebody may have a special consignment sale or ski swap or something to that effect,
you could do that through the temporary use.
de Weerd: Hypothetically.
Friedman: Pardon me?
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October 26, 2010
Page 46 of 50
de Weerd: Hypothetically.
Friedman: Hypothetical, yes. A ski swap especially. Anyway, that was intended to be
in the last update to this. It was inadvertently dropped out of the ordinance when the
ordinance came to you, so we are just trying to put it back in. If Council does feel that
these amendments are appropriate, then, we would need to authorize the city legal
department to prepare an ordinance and bring it back for your consideration.
de Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: No. I think we need to move forward with them.
de Weerd: Okay. Well, then, we will come back with an ordinance and you can take
action at that time.
Friedman: Thank you.
Item 10: Continued Department Reports
A. Mayor's Office: City Survey Discussion
de Weerd: Thank you, Pete. 10-A is Robert. Discussion of city survey.
Simison: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council for having me here this
evening. I'll try to keep this brief, but as you are aware, the city is going to begin
conducting its first city survey. It's being conducted by ORC and letters will be going out
to members of the community shortly with the survey process beginning following the
election next week. I'm here tonight to talk to you about the -- to try to finalize the
survey questions. You all should have received copies of the questions that the
directors have been working on in one form or another for the last few months and I'm
here to see if you have any questions regarding those questions in the survey for further
input -- or input that we can put into this before moving forward with the finalization.
And I have another follow-up item afterwards, but I just want to start off there.
de Weerd: Council, any questions, comments? Feedback?
Bird: Robert, this is the first time I have got to look at it, because what you sent it out on
the computer I don't have one on my computer. If I do, I don't know how to get it. So, I
have just looked at it here. It looks okay to me as a survey. It looks like it's got some
good questions. Some that I don't think we need, but that's me. I think it's got some
dang good questions, though.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
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October 26, 2010
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de Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I just have a question with ORC's track record and the -- the approach or
format with this kind of electronic survey method that we are undertaking. Have they
had a lot of success with it? Does it affect certain populations differently?
Simison: Well, it is a combined method and the reason why they do that is they are
really trying to get out the cell phone only households, which are making up about 20
percent of the households here in Idaho. So, if will be a combined where a set amount
of people will be phoned directly for their responses and a certain amount will be sent
letters asking them to complete the survey online, but it is primarily to get at those -- that
20 percent of the households in that fashion. What they have found in doing this is
while they may be setting out to do 500 responses for us, using these methods they
typically are gaining a higher number of people responding than they would if they were
just hired to pick up the phone and call 500 people, because they do find that more
people do go online and do this, which pushes those numbers up just a little bit.
Rountree: So, I assume that there is an algorithm or a statistical formula somewhere
that can differentiate between the different methods and what kind of population you
have to survey to get something that's statistically valid and how you relate the
population that have cell phones versus that don't have cell phones and the population
that gets the letter that either doesn't have a computer or has one and doesn't use it or
-- I mean it just seems a little odd to me how you'd make that work, but I have been out
of that business for a few years and I'm not sure, I just was a little uneasy with that.
de Weerd: They have changed their methods a lot, because the typical household has
changed their methods. People are getting rid of their land lines, because they have
cell phones and I'm one of those and so they want to make sure they have a good
statistical sampling, so, in fact, we found in all three of our respondents the mix of the
addresses and -- and the land line concept. So, that's one. Some of the questions in
the survey are because they do have standard questions that they ask across the
board. They do a lot of surveys for municipalities or governmental agencies and they
want to be able to do comparisons from other similar size cities. So, those are some of
the standard questions that maybe we weren't too crazy about as well, but if we wanted
it to fall within this comparison they had to be framed the way they were framed. So,
those are probably two of the difference ones that touched on some of your
observations that we have probably had similar ones and have spent some time with
the consultants and received feedback that addressed those concerns.
Bird: My main concern, though, is, yeah, I like the comparisons, but I want to know --
want the questions that came to our city, you know, because every city is a lithe unique
in different stuff and l think overall the questions are pretty good. There was a few in
there I didn't think we need. That's probably the comparison ones that you were talking
about that we do need, I guess.
Meridian City Council
October 26, 2010
Page 48 of 50
de Weerd: Could be. We did take to heart when we brought this as a budget item to
make sure that we knew what kind of outcomes we were looking for, so this -- and this
will establish our baseline. It -- it seems to work with the department directors. We had
that discussion today at our directors meeting and I think overall it's a solid survey and a
good start, a good basis.
Simison: We did receive some comments from Councilman Zaremba, who is not here
this evening, specifically requesting to put in some additional point about public
transportation into some of the questions. That's from the document that you have in
front of you, that's really one of the only changes, as well as on the question regarding
the fire department, making sure it's clear it's not just the fire department, but also our
emergency medical services are encompassed in that, so they don't think just have you
had someone come put a fire out in your home. So, those are the only two changes
that are really going to be given back to the company at this point in time for them to
move forward. The one question that they did have for us and we talked about this at
the director's meeting, comes back to that statistical question is we -- one of the things
we have asked them to do is break the city up into four different areas, very similar
based upon historical patterns, the south of the interstate, the downtown and, then, the
north and northwest, northeast portions of the city. In doing that that will give us an idea
if there are certain portions of the city which feel differently about these issues typically.
I mean I think that probably south of the interstate may have different views than in the
northwest part of the community. In breaking that up, one thing that the ORC wanted to
find out was when they bring back that information, because the northwest does have a
lot more households than the south of the interstate, if we want to -- them to give us a
disproportionate sample or a proportional sample on the results. They did say that --
and the disproportionate sample, basically, means do we want to go out and survey 127
people in each one of those four quadrants or do we want to survey a proportion of the
amount of people in the city in each quadrant to give the results. So, if we did 127 in
each of those four quadrants, the south is going to have a lot more people replying
compared to their population base. They did say that the amount of people that live in
the south with the proportionate sample, they would be looking for about 56 people to
respond at a minimum. That does work to give us some sort of baseline numbers that
can be valid, but it is a lower number than say the northwest, which would be 168
people, roughly. So, the question -- the directors felt that going with the proportionate
sample makes the most sense, because it is still statistically valid in doing it that way,
but want to get your feedback on that question.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Well, my position is you do the number you need to make it statistically valid.
If you do more it just costs more money and it really doesn't change the results and if
you do more you can't necessarily compare the more with the less and you got to keep
them on par and if it takes 160 on the north side and 50 on the south side, that's how
Meridian City Council
October 26, 2010
Page 49 of 50
they balance out. You don't want to do 50 on the north and 160 on the south. You don't
want to do 160 on both, because, again, you're comparing different --different results.
Simison: Okay.
de Weerd: One other thing I might add just in question development is the -- the
consultant did have a sampling of citizens that we ran the questions by to make sure
relevancy and to get an idea of -- are they -- have we framed them correctly, are they
understanding what we are trying to ask, and those kind of things and did end up
tweaking some of the questions as a result of that. So, I think we feel very comfortable
with the approach and framing the questions and getting this out.
Rountree: So, when you talked about going to have them report by district, so I guess
there is going to be a query as to -- are they just going to take it from the address they
for whomever they call and, then, categorize them, not let people categorize
themselves?
Simison: Correct. They will -- the survey company will make those determinations.
Rountree: That's better.
Bird: And, Robert, did I miss something? How many are we going to -- what's the total
we are going to try to shoot for?
Simison: Minimum of 500.
Bird: Minimum of 500.
Simison: Which 450 for the size of Meridian would be a statistically valid number size,
so we will be over that number.
Rountree: That seems pretty high to me. It's only 600 for the entire state of Idaho.
Hoaglun: That's for polling, not surveys.
Rountree: That's survey work.
Hoaglun: Robert, when -- I notice this is kicking off November 5th, but when will they
have it -- all the cost tabs and everything done? When do we expect a final report?
Simison: The intention is to come back to Council before the end of the year. So, by
the last Council meeting. They are aware that we typically don't have one between
Christmas and New Years. So, that Tuesday beforehand it is the intention that they will
be on site to deliver the results.
Hoaglun: Okay.
Meridian City Council
October 26, 2010
Page 50 of 50
de Weerd: We will have published results around the end of the first week of February
that we will post online.
Hoaglun: And, Robert, last question. You're a Boise State Bronco fan?
Simison: I like to watch their games, yes.
Hoaglun: Well, unfortunately, in the last minute and 30 BSU let La Tech score.
de Weerd: Yes. So, it's 49-20.
Simison: I can say --
Bird: 49-20? I'll bet my wife is furious.
Simison: For someone who may have seen some of the game, the game was not -- the
game was actually closer than that score, so it will be interesting to see how people
view it.
Bird: Wait until Idaho. That will be a game. Akey will get those donkeys going.
de Weerd: Okay. Any further questions for Robert?
Simison: Thank you.
de Weerd: We are at the end of our agenda. Thank you, Robert.
Rountree: Move to adjourn.
Hoaglun: Second.
de Weerd: I have a motion and a second to adjourn. All those in favor say aye. All
ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:32 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FIL F THESE PROCEEDINGS)
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