HomeMy WebLinkAbout2010 10-05Meridian Citv Council Meeting _ October 5, 2010
A Council meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:10 p.m.,
Tuesday, October 5, 2010, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, President David Zaremba, Charlie
Rountree, Brad Hoaglun and Keith Bird.
Others Present: Bill Nary, Jaycee Holman, Pete Friedman, Sonya Waters, Kyle Radek,
Joe Silva, John Overton, Jeff Lavey, and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
X David Zaremba X Brad Hoaglun
X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
de Weerd: Okay. I will go ahead and call this meeting to order. I would like to thank all
of you for joining us here this evening. For the record, it is Tuesday, October 5th. It's
two minutes after 7:00. We will start tonight's meeting with roll call attendance. Madam
Clerk.
Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance by the Wood Chuck Norris Cub Scout Den 7,
Pack 62
de Weerd: Item No. 2 is our Pledge of Allegiance. Tonight we will be led by the Wood
Chuck Norris Cub Scout Den 7, Pack 62. Cameron Foster will be leading us. If you will
all rise.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
de Weerd: If I could ask the cub scout troop to come forward. Boys, if you would like to
come forward for a moment, I would like to give you a City of Meridian pin.
Item 3: Community Invocation by Pastor Galen Caldwell of Treasure Valley
Worship Center
de Weerd: Item No. 3 is our community invocation. Tonight we will be led by Galen
Caldwell with the Treasure Valley Worship Center. If you will, please, come forward. If
you will all join us in the community invocation or take this as an opportunity for a
moment of reflection. Thank you for being here.
Caldwell: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Please join me as we ask God's blessing on
tonight's events. God, thank you that we live in a country where we are able to come
together. Where we are able to make decisions as a group. God, thank you for this
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honor. Thank you for this blessing. Thank you for this group of people you have placed
around us to help lead and guide this community. God, I ask your guidance on tonight,
that we would be able to make wise decisions for the good of all of those in this
community and wise and unselfish decisions, God, and that your blessing would just fall
over this place and would influence the decisions and actions that are made here
tonight, God, and again thank you for allowing us the opportunity to be here tonight, in
Jesus' name, amen.
de Weerd: Thank you. I'd like to present you a City of Meridian pin as well. Thank you.
Item 4: Adoption of the Agenda
de Weerd: Item No. 4 is the adoption of the agenda.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: A couple things to note on tonight's agenda. Under Item 6, Community
Items/Presentations, 6-B is Resolution No. 10-747. I'm sorry. 10-747. Yes. That's
correct. Item 8, Action Items, 8-B, a public hearing. There will be a request to continue
that to October 26th. And with those, Madam Mayor, I move adoption of tonight's
agenda.
Rountree: Second.
de Weerd: I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda as amended. All those in
favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 5: Consent Agenda
A. Approve Minutes of August 24, 2010 City Council Budget
Hearing
B. Approve Minutes of September 14, 2010 City Council
Workshop Meeting
C. Task Order #10022a Pursuant to the Master Agreement
Approved by City Council April 13, 2010 for Meridian
Wastewater Treatment Plant Facilities Plan with CH2M Hill for
a Not-To-Exceed Amount of $128,224.00
D. Agreement for Independent Contractor Services with Stevens
& Sons Well Drilling, Inc. for Well 10B Test Well Construction
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for aNot-To-Exceed Amount of $122,390.00
de Weerd: Item 5 is our Consent Agenda.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: There are no changes to our Consent Agenda. I move approval of tonight's
Consent Agenda and the Mayor be authorized to sign and Clerk to attest.
Rountree: Second.
Zaremba: Second.
de Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda. If there is
no discussion, Madam Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
de Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 6: Community Items/Presentations
A. Fire Prevention Week Proclamation
de Weerd: We will move to Item 6, which is our Community Items/Presentations and,
Council, I will move down to the podium and ask our firemen and our fire department -- I
think we have a special guest as well. Shoot, our Boy Scouts left too early. Okay. As
you see from our agenda tonight, we have Fire Prevention Week and it's my honor to
read this proclamation. Whereas the City of Meridian is committed to insuring the safety
and security of all those living in and visiting our city and whereas Meridian's first
responders are dedicated to reducing the occurrence of home fires and home fire
injuries through prevention, education, and whereas Meridian's residents are responsive
to public education measures and are able to take personal steps to increasing their
safety and fire. Give me five. And whereas the 2000 -- or 2010 Fire Prevention Week
theme, Smoke Alarms: A sound you can live with -- effectively serves to remind us all
of the simple actions we can take to stay safe from fire. Therefore, I, Mayor Tammy de
Weerd, City of Meridian, do hereby proclaim October 3rd through 9th, 2010, as Fire
Prevention Week in the City of Meridian and call upon all citizens to heed the important
safety message of preventing home fires in support of public safety. Thank you for
being here with us and I would invite you for any comment.
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Silva: Mayor, on behalf of the Meridian Fire Department we'd like to thank you for
making this proclamation. Unfortunately, about 3,000 nationally die in home fires and
it's oftentimes the result of just a battery or smoke detector that fails, so about 25
percent of our homes out there lack an operational smoke detector, so that's what we
are -- we are working on this month and we will be taking that program to the schools.
We are sponsoring a public safety open house at Meridian Fire Station One with police
and fire demonstrations on October 30th from 10:00 o'clock to 2:00 p.m. in the
afternoon at 540 East Franklin. So, we look forward to having everybody there. Thank
you very much, Mayor.
B. Resolution No. 10-747: Naming Centennial Park Shelter "Terry
Parker Smith Shelter"
de Weerd: Thank you. Thank you for joining. Thank you Sparky. Okay. Our next
item, Item 6-B, is a Resolution No. 10-747. It is to officially name the Centennial Park
shelter the Terry Parker Smith shelter that City Council approved last week.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Yes, Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: It's my honor to move that we approve Resolution 10-747, naming
Centennial Park shelter after Terry Parker Smith, and authorize the Mayor to sign and
the Clerk to attest.
Bird: Second.
de Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 6-B. If there is no discussion
from Council I would ask for roll call.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
de Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
C. Second & Third Reading of Ordinance No. 10-1457: Texting
While Driving
de Weerd: Now we are at our Item 6-C, which is the second and third reading of
Ordinance No. 10-1457, texting while driving. And I will turn this over to Chief Lavey.
To Mr. Nary.
Nary: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Before you is the second --
second and third reading tonight for the texting while driving ordinance that you had
asked us to prepare. We are requesting for you to evaluate or look at an addition or an
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amendment to that ordinance. In doing our research and looking at both Twin Falls, as
well as the state law that was proposed last year, one thing that isn't defined, even
though it is a term of art and it is something that I believe a court could define, we felt it
was important to include a definition of what a wireless hand-held device is. So, we
have recommended the definition to be inserted into the ordinance and I can read it out
loud for the public. There are some copies on the back table as well. But, basically, it
would define a wireless hand-held device as used shall be defined as an electronic
device which communicates or transmits a typed or pictorial information by
electromagnetic waves or radio frequency and which is designed to be held or used by
or is actually held or used by a human hand. This term shall include, but not limited to
cellular phones, satellite telephones, pagers, computers, mobile messaging devices,
tactile texting devices, personal electronic devices, personal digital assistants, and any
device with two or more such capabilities. We felt in doing our review that -- that that
definition probably enhances the ordinance and makes it clearer as to what we are --
what type of behavior we are trying to prevent, along with what type of device we are
trying to relate it to. We felt it would make it a little bit stronger. There has been a
couple of things, just so you're aware, we have had some comments and you have
received some comments in your packet and you will probably hear some comments
tonight and I thought I could at least address a couple of things that have at least come
to our attention. There are folks that have raised a concern or an issue they believe
with that -- a recent study that's gotten a lot of press, about the potential that additional
crashes actually occur or they have a higher incidence of crashes that occur because of
these types of prohibitions that people, essentially, continue to do the behavior, but
don't modify their behavior, they try to hide it more, causing more distraction and more --
more crashes. The police may have an additional comment as well. But in reviewing
that and doing the research by my staff, I think you don't have a real definitive answer
here from one study. The study was performed by the insurance institute, the Highway
Loss Data Institute, which is an affiliate of the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety
and immediately afterwards the -- it was criticized by Secretary of Transportation Ray
La Hood as there is not enough data and not enough time to allow both the -- these
types of ordinances or state laws to take effect and for people to, then, alter their
behavior. So, you do tend to get a little up tick sometimes in these changes, but what I
guess the criticism on the other side was there is not enough time with these ordinances
or laws being in place, to really do a valid study. So, I don't know that that really
answers your question for you either way. Secondarily, some of the comments that
have come to my office has been a concern or a belief that the state's inattentive driving
statute is more effective in this particular area and I'll read to you what the state law
says. Inattentive driving shall be considered a lesser offense than reckless driving and
shall be applicable in those circumstances where the conduct of the operator has been
inattentive, careless, or imprudent in light of the circumstances then existing, rather than
heedless or wanton or in those cases where the danger to persons or property by the
motor vehicle operator's conduct is slight. As a prosecutor that's adifferent -- it's a
difficult charge to prove and it's difficult to try to assess what individual behaviors are
adequate for a court. Each court takes a subjective view of that. What this ordinance
does is takes a specific type of conduct and prohibits it. Much easier to prove, much
easier to address in a court setting than this. Secondarily, this is a misdemeanor that
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carries up to a 300 dollar fine and 90 days in jail. The ordinance that's before you
carries a 75 dollar fine for the first two offenses and, then, it becomes a misdemeanor
after the third offense of it. We had a recent discussion on a different offense regarding
dogs at large and there was a lot of concern by members of the public that that offense
carried a misdemeanor violation and we are evaluating that and looking at an alternative
to bring back in front of you to make that an infraction for the first couple of offenses.
So, I think in light of our recent discussion, making this offense an infraction makes
more sense and the specificity of the offense is, actually, much easier to prove and is
less subject to the subjectiveness that the circumstances may dictate. Without a
collision, if you have -- a police officer trying to cite somebody for inattentive driving for
just driving down the road and texting, that may be much more complex to prove for a
prosecutor than what we are proposing. But, again, that's kind both sides of that
discussion. Terry Derden from the Boise City Attorney's Office, who is a prosecutor that
works closely with the City of Meridian and our police department, is also here if you
have questions in regards to prosecution, Terry certainly could answer those as well.
That's all I had on this ordinance. As you see, there is a number of people here that
may have something else to tell you, if you have other questions for me, or if you want
to wait until the end, that's fine.
de Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Nary. Any comments from the chief?
Lavey: Madam Mayor, Council, you heard from me last week or maybe the week
before on this issue, so I'll keep it really brief. I hope that we all can agree here today
that texting while driving is bad and, hopefully, that the debate we have today is how do
we approach that. As I stood before you I said in the past that I believe that the use of
cell phones completely should be taken out of the motor vehicles, but this is really kind
of a compromise. I think our debate would even be stronger if we said we are going to
have no cell phones at all while the vehicle is in motion. But just let me say that texting
is bad practice. It requires two hands and the eyes on the screen and not on the road.
understand there is considerable debate on how we address this activity. I would be the
first to say that we do not need an additional law if those that text simply do the right
thing and not drive while texting or not texting while driving. I also disagree that
inattentive driving is the most practical answer. If this was the case there would be no
need to have laws about drinking and driving, as inattentive or reckless driving would
cover that. Approximately 20 years ago we put DUI laws in effect because it was such
a major hazard out on the roads. Text is taking the same sort of pattern. On a daily
basis we have officers that witness people doing inappropriate things in their cars.
Shaving. Brushing their hair. Reading. Applying makeup. And doing many other
activities. However, texting is something we see on an hourly basis every single day.
It's the number one thing that we see people doing in their cars, other than talk on the
cell phones. We have worked with Representative Marv Hagedorn, which I believe is in
the audience today. Various youth groups, which I believe are in the audience today.
And other groups to make texting while driving a state law. There was further
discussion currently in congress that this may become a federal law. I believe there is
people in the audience that are going to speak to that as well. Some additional
problems with using inattentive driving while texting -- or for texting. It's a mandatory
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court appearance. You have to go to court if you're cited under that. There is no set
fine. You have to have a court trial to determine what that fine is. It results in a
misdemeanor on your record if convicted. The burden of proof is higher. It's beyond a
reasonable doubt rather than a preponderance of the evidence. Also it requires an
additional result. You must be texting while driving and doing something else, such as
swerving, hitting a curb, hitting a bicycle, wrecking your car -- something like that. You
just -- if you're driving down the road texting while driving you cannot use inattentive
driving if the car is maintaining its lane of travel and doing no other act. I have
Prosecutor Terry Derden here to speak on that as well when I'm done and it's -- in my
opinion, it's not the most efficient use of our courts with overburdened docket already. It
also is not our desire to add misdemeanor convictions to the permanent criminal record
to anyone for texting while driving, especially our youth. Our proposed ordinance would
make it a misdemeanor for repeat offenders who truly are the people that deserve a
misdemeanor conviction. I know that we need to change the cultural mind set that I can
drive and text and do both safe. We will continue to have this debate as to what is the
best way to make this happen. And I thank you and I will answer any questions or I will
be here to answer questions after everybody else is done speaking. Thank you.
de Weerd: Thank you, chief. Council, any questions at this point?
Bird: Not at this time.
de Weerd: Thank you. Terry, did you want to comment?
Derden: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, thank you. Everything that you said
think is correct in terms of the court system and I would second those comments. The
-- I have prosecuted inattentive driving several times in the last year, from everything
from someone driving while eating a burrito to shaving, brushing their hair, all kinds of
things the chiefs listed. I have prosecuted inattentive driving for someone simply
texting. The case that I did that in, the person was swerving and didn't even notice a
police car was trying to pull her over. So, the judge was very easily able to conclude
she was inattentive. The judge in his findings when he found that person guilty, made it
very clear that had that not been there he likely would not have reached that conclusion.
So, I think it's safe for the Council to assume and you, Madam Mayor, that the
magistrate from that county likely expects there to be some sort of action on the part of
the operator to signal to the officer that their driving is being affected by texting. So,
with that I'll leave it for any other questions you may have for me.
de Weerd: Thank you. Okay. I do have a number of people who have signed to
indicate their support of or opposition or neutrality to this discussion. So, when I read
your name if you'd like to come forward and provide testimony at that time I would invite
you to do so. If you just want your statement on the record that will serve as that
statement. So, our first name listed is Eli Nary. Signed up for. Good evening. If you
will, please, state your name and address for the record.
E.Nary: All right. And address?
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de Weerd: Yes.
E.Nary: All right. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, for the record my name is Eli
Nary and I live at 2140 North Todd Way in Meridian, Idaho.
de Weerd: Thank you.
E.Nary: And I'm also the chair of the Meridian Mayor's Youth Advisory Council or
MYAC and I'm in strong affirmation of Ordinance No. 10-1457. It's a new year with
MYAC, which means new faces, new goals, and new projects. Although we may look
different, we continue to thrive in the City of Meridian. One thing that has not changed
is our advocacy for a cause like this tonight. Last year MYAC took it upon themselves
to put an end to this growing issue, that issue being texting while driving. In a few sort
months MYAC organized a dinner auction with local legislators to educate them on this
important topic. We spoke at the capital twice and we created a Facebook page titled
Teens In Idaho Against Texting While Driving. As of today this page holds 768
followers. And what is truly extraordinary is that those people have spread beyond any
generational gap. Instead of just teenagers, we see parents, grandparents, aunts,
uncles, and everyone in between also on this page. You see this merely hasn't touched
a cord with the members of MYAC, but has touched a cord with everyone. We have
also received overwhelming response on the page. One user states: I don't know how
people do this. I can't text and walk, let alone text and drive. Another says: Texting
while driving should be banned in all 50 states. And of the comments on the page, it's
almost unanimously in support of this cause. Those who do speak against this cause
typically site things like educating the public against texting while driving, instead of
creating a law. But can't this law be a part of the education? If we took that stand with
something like the new drug Spice, would education solve as many problems as a law
would? In short, no. And texting while driving is no different. Finally, I would just like to
thank you all for bringing this issue front and center. For instance, if you were to walk
through the parking lot of any Meridian high school, there would be dozens upon
dozens of students texting and driving and that's what this law is for, because if we save
one life -- if this law saves one life, then, we have all succeeded in making a better,
safer community. Thank you. And I open myself up to questioning.
de Weerd: Thank you, Eli. Any questions from Council?
Bird: I have none.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Just a quick question. Eli, next legislative session will you guys be returning
to the legislature for a statewide law?
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E.Nary: You know, we haven't had our full planning yet, but I'm sure that that will be
discussed.
Hoaglun: Okay. Thank you.
E.Nary: Thank you. Anything else?
De Weerd: Thank you, Eli.
E.Nary: All right. Thank you.
de Weerd: Caroline Lincoln signed up for. If you will, please, state your name and
address for the record.
Lincoln: Hi. I'm Caroline Lincoln. I live at 2231 West Los Flores.
de Weerd: Thank you.
Lincoln: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I am the vice-chair of the Mayor's
Youth Advisory Council, otherwise known as MYAC, and I'm in strong affirmation of
Ordinance 10-1457. I have a little bit of facts for you guys. In 2007 AAA Incorporation
with 17 magazines, found that 61 percent of teen drivers admit to using risky behavior
and 46 percent of those teens confess that those risky habits were mainly due to driving
while texting. In a Virginia text study it found that those risky habits -- oh. It found that
these were the cause of distractions for all drivers was the use of a cell phone. The
Insurance Institute of Highway Safety found that one in four accidents involve the use of
a cell phone. I understand that the use of a phone to text and drive is universally known
to be dangerous, but to ignore these statistics is to ignore the deaths of local residents
and my school member Kassy Kerfoot and Megan Bartley. Thank you for your time.
Are there any questions?
de Weerd: Thank you, Caroline. Any questions?
Bird: I have none.
de Weerd: Thank you. Janelle de Weerd signed up for. I think you know the routine.
Please state your name and address.
J.de Weerd: Janelle de Weerd, 2621 North Miranda Avenue, Meridian, Idaho.
de Weerd: Thank you.
J.de Weerd: Okay. And this is the testimony I used last year in the legislature, so some
of the things are about last year, but just -- yeah. Okay. Madam Mayor, City Council,
hi, I'm Janelle de Weerd. I'm a junior at Meridian High School, as well as I'm on the
Meridian Youth Advisory Council. This ordinance at hand is really a problem that is
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close to my heart. Recently one of our very own high school graduates was killed due
to a car accident due to her texting while driving. It really gave my high school and
MYAC an opportunity to look at this rising problem in our state. We are keying youth
efforts from all around Idaho. Every major network and newspaper has covered this
growing problem. Much of the media coverage stems from the banning of texting while
driving in 19 states, plus the District of Columbia. These concerns arose when a
number -- the number of fatal accidents were the result of DWT, driver while texting,
which makes sense. When studies are done Virginia Transportation Institute found that
drivers who were texting were 23 times more likely of a risk or -- of crash or a near
crash event than nondistracted driving. Also, statistics by the National Highway Traffic
Safety Administration attribute four out of five -- 80 percent due to text -- or distracted
drivers. The numbers don't lie in this case. Coming from a youth point of view, I see my
peers put into the situation where they could lose their lives, not because they are
purposely putting their self in a dangerous situation, but solely because of their oblivion
to the matter. So, another question is raised. Why not just push education. Let's put it
in a scenario. Why are people very hesitant to speed? Because they know if they are
caught, not only will their insurance go up, but they could -- and get a ticket, but they
could also risk losing their license. It's the same factor that would drive this new law. If
you knew you were at risk for a raise in insurance prices, a ticket and for a new driver
losing your license, you just wouldn't do it. A scare tactic just may be needed to curb
this problem. My group had a breakfast and presented this report to get feedback from
the leaders of our community. As we heard what they had to say, personal freedoms
were brought up as something that would be violated, such a seat belt and helmet laws.
When people choose not to wear their seat belt or wear a helmet, they are putting their
selves in jeopardy, though, when people choose to text and drive they do not only put
themselves in jeopardy, but they also put the passengers of the car and other cars in a
bad situation. As you see, there isn't anything personal about this. As the texting
phenomenon continues, precaution must be taken. When there is an average of teens
with a cell phone sending 97 texts a day, you begin to wonder where they find the time
to text. As opposed to banning using the cell phone at all, it has proven your focus is
completely taken off the road, as reported by Jennifer Luven, a study found that texting
took a driver's focus away from the road for an average of 4.5 seconds. Enough time to
travel the length of a football field at 35 miles per hour. The reaction time is also
dramatically slowed. The Drew study, drivers median reaction time increased by 30
percent when texting and nine percent when talking on the phone, compared to
performance in a driving only situation. Representing the teens of our state, I would like
to make myself clear, that a law banning DWT would save countless lives and make the
road safer for all. I thank you for your time, Madam Chair, and City Council. I now open
myself up to questions.
de Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions? Thank you.
J.de Weerd: And I will be really pushing for government affairs to get involved with this
law again, because it's really important for the whole state. Thank you.
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de Weerd: Thank you, Janelle. Wanda McQuire signed up for. Thank you for joining
us. If you will, please, state your name and address.
McQuire. My name is Wanda McQuire and I live at 16630 Mulberry Lane in Nampa.
de Weerd: Thank you.
McQuire: And Madam Mayor and Council, I'm here today as a parent to hopefully you
guys will pass this law. I have a son that graduated from Meridian High School two
years ago. He is a sophomore in college. He has just lost a good friend last year doing
this and he's still invincible. He thinks that it's okay to text and drive down the highway
and he said to me: Mom, if they pass this law 80 percent of the high school kids in
Meridian will not abide by it, because it's easy, all you have to do is take that phone,
hide it, there -- there it is. I feel as a parent that the city needs to take this responsibility
and as a state of Idaho I would love to see cell phones banned and it's not only our
teens. I have seen adults in their 50s and 60s texting and, let me tell you, they are not
nearly as good as these kids behind me, because these guys can text pretty fast. But I
would love to see them ban it and save some lives. If there is anything we can do to
help this -- and I would also like to see that fine higher than 75 dollars. Seventy-five
dollars to a lot of people -- and especially students and kids, it's not a lot of money.
can tell you, their friends are going to get together and pull that together. I have a
daughter that just moved to the state of Washington. She's been there four days. The
state has a no cell phone ban. She picked up her cell phone this morning, not thinking
that she's in another state, to call her husband, because she was blocked by the
preschool to take her daughter. A state officer pulled her over and he said, ma'am do
you realize that we have a law that says no cell phones in this state and she said, sir,
I'm from Idaho. I just moved here. Two hundred fifty dollar ticket first time. I don't want
to hear your excuse. This is the law. I would love to see this pass and I would love to
see a higher fine for anyone that uses a text message, to get the message across it's
not okay to text and drive. Thank you.
de Weerd: Thank you. Mason Wardell -- Wardell. I'm sorry. Has signed up for.
Wardell: I'm Mason Wardell. My address is 115271 La Pine Court. Me, Hallie Knife,
Raylee Graves, and Ashley Metcalf signed up for this, not knowing that it was speaking,
so --
de Weerd: You don't have to speak.
Wardell: I understood that. But I do want to say that I am for this law ban, because
have seen teens on the highway driving at, you know, 65, 70 miles per hour texting with
no hands on the steering wheel and I just cleared out of that area as fast as I could,
because it really scared me and I really think that we should push for this, just because I
feel like it really does endanger other lives than just yourself and that's not something
that anyone wants to do. So, that's all I have to say.
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de Weerd: Thank you so much. Hallie Knife signed up as neutral.
Knife: Hi. I'm Hallie Knife. I live at 514 North Sanson Avenue in Boise, Idaho. I signed
up as neutral, because, really, I just wanted to see everybody's views on this. Like I --
honestly, Idon't text while I drive. I just don't. I would kill 20 people in one day. I can't
do that. So, it doesn't really affect me and so I just wanted to see how other people felt
about it and what their views were on it, so -- yeah.
de Weerd: We appreciate you being here.
Knife: Yeah. Thank you.
de Weerd: Raylee Graves also signed up as neutral. Okay. Ashley Metcalf signed up
for. Okay. Representative Marv Hagedorn signed up as neutral. Good evening.
Hagedorn: Thank you. I'm Marv Hagedorn. I live at 5285 West Ridgeside Drive in
Meridian. The reason that I signed up to testify was to kind of give you a little bit of a
background on the same struggles that you're probably having right now that we had in
the legislature with this particular ordinance. I have a saying: In God we trust,
everyone else needs data. And one of the things that the Meridian Youth Council did
very early on last summer was they brought some very specific data on what the
impacts of texting and driving really do. We don't have studies, we don't have data on
putting on your makeup, nor do we have data on reading a book or doing a PowerPoint
presentation, but we absolutely have data on the impacts of text and driving. The
issues that we had in the legislature were very -- quite a number. We have to write
statute in the legislature that is applicable to the entire state. From Dixie, Idaho, to
Boise, Idaho, and it's very hard to get all of law enforcement, all of the prosecutors,
insurance companies, everybody that has something to do with creating that statute to
agree on how do we define texting, how do we define rubber necking. Do we need to
define these things? Is it applicable to our particular area? And as you all saw, as our
legislative session went, we came to an end of the session without being able to do
anything. I appreciate the City of Meridian taking this on. I truly believe that there is
going to be a number of legislators that are going to watch what happens in Meridian,
they are going to watch what happens in Twin Falls, to better understand how our law
enforcement folks, including our prosecutors, are going to be able to use these
ordinances to educate and to enforce an ordinance such as this. These are hard things
for us to come to grips with and I think that an ordinance like this will help us understand
if this is something the state needs to do to define texting to this level or do we need to
look at other alternatives, of which I'm working with the chief, the prosecutors, and some
others on at the state level. After we failed at the legislative level to come to an
agreement, the Mayor and I had a discussion about maybe the appropriate solution
would be an ordinance, because it is important in Meridian. We do have a problem in
our urban areas. The problem is not as much -- or seen as much in our rural areas and,
thus, we have issues at the state level getting enough legislators to agree that we need
to do something like this. So, at this time I would recommend that you take the auctions
that you're looking at that you -- that you approve an ordinance and allow our law
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2010
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enforcement folks, including our prosecutors, to get a better understanding of what it's
going to take to enforce an ordinance such as this. We could not change inattentive
driving at the state level for a number of reasons, which we wanted to do, because we
were -- in the urban areas we were going to plug our court systems up with
misdemeanors. The rural areas wasn't that much of a concern. But if we were to
change inattentive driving at the state level, that impacted some negotiations that the
prosecutors also do. And so there was -- there are so many issues at the state level to
try and wrap our arms around this, it's going to take us a little bit longer to do that. I
think that at your level here in this city I think you have a great opportunity to have an
impact on educating people on what's safe and what's not safe and making our kids and
those of us that drive across traffic with our kids much safer. And with that, ladies and
gentlemen, I stand for questions.
de Weerd: Thank you
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Yes.
Rountree: Marv, it's not often we get an elected official before us that actually takes a
position on a particular item and I thank you for doing that. I appreciate that. My
question is do you anticipate or have a sense that the government affairs group is going
to take this subject on again?
Hagedorn: Council, we do have -- I'm working with Senator McGee now and
Representative Wood and the prosecutors, the sheriffs -- we have got a coalition
together that we have been working on another bill trying to get everyone to agree on a
basis of what we can do. I believe that it's going to be more encompassing than just
texting. I think that's where we are going to have. to go in order to get some kind of a
state statute and I believe that will be at the level of an infraction and it will cover more
things than just texting. So, I guess the answer is, yes, we are going to do something.
The last texting bill came through -- started in the senate in a transportation committee,
came to the house transportation committee and, then, we -- we sent that to the floor for
amendment and that's where things started getting mucked up when we started asking
a lot of the same questions I know you guys are asking yourselves. Can we define this?
If we define this do we have to define that. How far down this rabbit hole do we go.
And at the end of the day I think the key to this whole thing is data shows texting is
dangerous. Keep that in mind. That's the bottom line. So, how do you -- how do you
wrap your ordinance and your law enforcement around the fact that texting while driving
is dangerous. That's where it goes and that's what you have to focus on, because there
is a lot of -- there is a lot of testimony, which I'm sure you will hear more of, which we all
heard, the makeup argument, the rubber necking argument, all of those kinds of things.
If data was there to support that I think that would have been much easier to do that.
We don't have that data. We do have data on texting.
Rountree: Thank you.
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2010
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de Weerd: Any other questions? Thank you.
Hagedorn: Thank you.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor, I would just thank you for your service in the legislature and
appreciate you're always looking out for Meridian.
Hagedorn: Thank you.
de Weerd: John Longhurst signed up against. And also in part of our public records
you did note that Mr. Longhurst also called earlier today. Thank you for being here.
Longhurst: Yes. You're welcome. Madam Mayor --
de Weerd: If you will state your name and address. I'm sorry.
Longhurst: Oh. Okay. John Longhurst. 2141 Northeast 10th Avenue, Meridian.
83646. Okay. Well, I just want to first of all commend everyone who has spoken so far,
because they have -- everyone has made at least one good point and I think there is
one thing we can all agree on and that's that it's not good to text and drive. I mean, you
know, I personally have never done it, but, then, you know, I have never -- I don't send
too many text messages and -- but -- but aside from that, which really has nothing to do
with anything, Ijust -- I just want to say that we really -- I don't think we need another
law on the books. We already have, in my opinion, too many laws. In fact, there are
laws on the books right now that -- at least one or more that everyone in this room
doesn't know anything about and that -- you know and we just don't need more laws.
Now, the gentleman that just spoke that served in the Idaho legislature -- I don't recall
his name. Anyway, Idid -- there was one thing he said about -- you know, concerning
how far down a rat hole we go. That's a concern, because if we pass this law, you
know, what are we going to pass next. Is it going to become -- you know, are we going
to say, okay, well, if we -- in the name of safety if we say -- if we require drivers of
automobiles to wear helmets, that would save lives, too. Are we going to do that? Are
we going to require pedestrians on sidewalks to wear helmets, because that might save
a life somewhere also. Those are things we need to look at, you know, and if we -- if we
pass a law like this today and keep -- you know, where are we going to be five, ten
years from now, 20 years from now? In Idaho, you know, I think, in my opinion -- I have
lived in this state for most of my life. I was born here. I have lived here for about the
last -- ever since 1978. Before that I actually grew up in eastern Washington. But aside
from that -- but, anyway, the reason I mention that is people who were -- have been
born and raised in Idaho I believe have pretty good common sense and we don't need
an excess amount of laws here and I can't speak for every other part of the country, but
here, you know, I mean we can figure out -- we know the difference between right and
wrong. Parents teach their children, you know, what's right and what's wrong and -- and
that should be what we should look at. Also, the very first speaker -- gentleman, I want
to commend him for mentioning the website. I think that's a real good idea. You know,
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2010
Page 15 of 54
mean we need to be against that, but the way -- the way to solve this problem is to use
positive peer pressure among the teens that are doing this. You know, now Meridian
High School apparently has some kind of a club now. I'm glad to hear that. I have a
daughter that just graduated from Meridian High School last spring and, you know,
that's something that -- that every high school in the area could have and we could
become, in fact, a leader in -- in using positive peer pressure to solve this problem,
instead of a law. So, just -- those are some good ideas. Another -- another thing that
we could do would be -- you know, we could have a website, maybe the one that's
already there, or create one where anyone caught texting and driving, no matter their
age, you know, where it would -- could be absolutely proven that's what they were
doing, that they would have their name posted on that website for, you know, whatever
period of time we deem it necessary, just to make it socially unacceptable to do that.
And so those are some of the -- you know, the reasons why I'm against it and against a
law being passed and, you know, I just think that we can do it without the law and,
besides that, you know, police officers don't want to cite somebody for a misdemeanor
and have them serve possible jail time when they want to take somebody to jail for
something like that. They'd rather -- they'd rather find a real bad guy, you know, that
committed a violent crime and put him away, you know, and we don't want to clog up
the jail system and create a burden on our -- you know, on us as taxpayers to create
more jail space, you know, for all these people that, you know, haven't done -- you
know, they haven't committed violent crimes, they don't belong in prison. You know, not
saying that they are all going to -- they'd all go there, but, anyway, I think that police
officers could understand that and probably relate to that idea. And so with that said, I
guess I'll leave myself open for questions.
de Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions?
Rountree: I have none.
de Weerd: Thank you, sir.
Longhurst: You're welcome.
de Weerd: Okay. Nanette Knight. Oh, it's Nan. Okay. Signed up in favor.
Knight: Madam Mayor and City Council Members, Nanette Knight. Go by Nan. 1382
North Penbrook Avenue, Meridian.
de Weerd: Thank you.
Knight: I'm actually here to -- a testimonial. I was actually rear-ended by somebody not
paying attention. Not only was she texting, but she had several other things going on.
Three weeks before my wedding. In less than two minutes my life changed. I went to
the doctor this morning, I'm at 60 percent to where he thinks I'm going to be. I may
never get back to a hundred percent, because somebody decided to be negligent.
Driving is a privilege, not a right. Everybody is entitled to drive. Nobody is entitled to
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2010
Page 16 of 54
put other people in danger, themselves or anyone else, and to totally disregard
someone while you're behind the wheel and think, oh, well, you know, this law needs to
be passed. It needs to be stiffer than a 75 dollar fine. These children are adults that
are doing this -- this behavior, changing people's lives drastically. It's selfish. No one's
going to learn at a 75 dollar fine. I mean it does need to be passed. It's imperative that
we save lives and we educate and I am so proud of these youths that are here today. I
mean what happened to me from somebody that had six priors to hitting me under the
age of 20. Now, my honeymoon was canceled and my job went away and I have had to
start over, because somebody decided to be negligent behind a vehicle and all I want to
say is driving is a privilege. Everybody deserves to be safe in their own vehicle. This
law needs to be passed. It's imperative that we do something. I appreciate the opinion
of the speaker before me. I think he's completely wrong, because if we don't do
something now and consider it just as dangerous as drinking and driving, texting and
driving, or any inattentive behavior behind a vehicle, is like having a loaded weapon.
We do not have the right to endanger others while we are behind the wheel. Thank
you. Do you have any questions?
de Weerd: Thank you, Nan. Appreciate it. Brian Knight also signed up in favor. Thank
you. Christy Sterns, signed up against. Thank you for joining us. If you will, please,
state your name and address for the record.
Sterns: Christy Sterns, 2625 Selway Rapids Lane in Meridian.
de Weerd: Thank you.
Sterns: I'm not necessarily testifying against this, because I do agree that it's a huge
problem and a big distraction. However, my concern would be -- is to the effectiveness
of the way that this ordinance is written, because when you look at the way that it is
described here and the description under the definition of texting, I don't know if it's
necessarily going to do what you put it in place to do and if it's going to make that big of
a difference. Although the texting isn't -- it's a horrid distraction. There is so many other
things. And this is where I think it failed in the legislature, it's so broad and like when
you look at the way it's written here, there is quite a bit of vagueness to it, because you
have got different things, like GPS devices where people are taking their eyes off the
road and typing it in, which I agree is a distraction also. But, then, when you read it
under the texting here and it talks about transmitting wireless messages, how do you --
you know, you get people that use these phones that have got their mobile web on
there, they have got their Facebook and different networking sites and that's, I guess,
where my concern would be is that I do agree that this is a huge problem, but does this
really cover the entire issue, because there are many things that people use these
handheld devices for other than texting and that would be my main concern. That's
about all I have to say.
de Weerd: Thank you. I appreciate your comments.
Sterns: Thank you.
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2010
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de Weerd: Those are the names that are signed up on this list. Is there any other
testimony from any member of the public? Yes.
Catherman: Hi. My name is Liz Catherman and -- 2667 West Sheryl Street, Meridian.
de Weerd: Thank you.
Catherman: I really wanted to address a lot of things that were said by -- I believe it
was John Longhorn. I have lived here -- okay. I have lived here for 48 years. I was
born and raised. And I can tell you now that the majority of Idahoans do want this law
passed. I have lived here all my life and the people that I have talked to -- and I have
talked to a few -- and they do want this law. Also, police officers don't mind writing out
tickets to people. I have even talked to the police officers myself, they have really been
wonderful with us, the Meridian Police Department, and they would rather write out a
ticket to somebody than go to somebody's house to tell them that their child is dead or
that their parents are dead. I believe this is something that we do need to do. Yes, it
could be a stiffer penalty, but this is a great start and I applaud you for doing this and
the police department and anybody else who was involved with this. I believe my
daughter is involved with this, too, getting this together and -- Megan Bartley. I have got
in front of me here a collage of pictures of people that -- they are families I met back in
Washington DC. There are so many stories out there of people dying from not just
texting and people driving, but cell phone use period. So, my idea is we get cell phone
use out of the cars all together. Story after story. A woman walking on the side of the
road, minding her own business, hit and killed. A young man who wanted to be on the
bicycling team at Berkeley in California. Riding his bike, minding his own business. Hit
by a young lady texting. Mothers, children -- a 13 year old here, she was on her way
home on a school bus. Truck driver who was texting his company, slammed into the
bus killing people and this little 13 year old was stuck in that bus and she burned to
death. You cannot look at the families of the victims and tell them that this is
unimportant, it's just another law. It is not just another law and I'm tired of hearing about
studies, data. Just look at the facts. Let's just see what's going on here. It's a no
brainer. And I guess that's really all I wanted to say. I have been on the other side of
the coin. I have been on the other people's side where I think why is the government
telling us what we can or cannot do in the privacy of our own car. This is ridiculous. But
now that I'm on the other side, I have lost a loved one. Now that I'm on that side of it, I
look at it totally different. So, if people who think that this is unnecessary, if you could,
please, just picture one of your family members dying from this or walking on the
sidewalk getting hit and killed or your family being wiped out, try to look at it from that
side. I have been on the other side and I guess that's all to my ranting. And I'm open
for questions.
de Weerd: Council, any questions?
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2010
Page 18 of 54
de Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: A question, Liz.
Catherman: Absolutely.
Hoaglun: If we pass this law that's just, really, one component of this. We need
enforcement, which I believe we have officers who can use good judgment to do that,
but I think there is a third thing that's needed and an education component. We need to
educate people about the dangers. I understand there might be some things that you
will be doing in the future on that front?
Catherman: Yes. We are going to be going around to schools, drivers ed classes,
churches, youth groups, anybody who will listen to us and just talk to them and show
them the reality, you know -- like I said, studies are fine and all, but when you show
them the reality of this, it really can happen -- it can happen to anyone of you guys in
your family. God forbid, I hope it doesn't and I'm hoping this will help out, but that is a
big deal, education. We have got to let people know and we have to hold each other
accountable. I was in a car -- after this happened to my own daughter I was in a car
with a friend. Her phone rang and she went to answer it. Well, I grabbed it and I said,
no way, not on my time. I don't feel like dying today, but thanks. And I know it surprised
her, but I just was -- we have got to hold each other accountable, even when you're the
passenger in the car, it's your responsibility, as well as the driver.
Hoaglun: Thank you.
de Weerd: Well -- and, Liz, I think when you stated that there is a gale storm behind all
of this and it was your loss and the loss of Kassy that really got our youth council -- their
attention to be part of the solution. We appreciated you coming and sharing your story
with the youth council and the legislators and saying, you know, we have too much to
lose.
Catherman: This is reality and we need to face it. Just one more thing. Ten rows back
from where my daughter is buried is another young lady Megan Bartley, who was
minding her own business, too. She was stopped in traffic and a young man doing 70
miles an hour came up from behind her and shoved her into semi that was in front of
her. She was two months away from getting married. If you could look at it from -- like
said, the victim's families and who is left behind and who is not left behind and we do
have a right to be safe when we are in our cars. We have a right to be safe when we
are walking on the sidewalk or riding our bikes. We have the right to be safe. And this
is a good step. It's a first step, but it's a good step.
de Weerd: Thank you for being here.
Catherman: Thank you.
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2010
Page 19 of 54
de Weerd: Is there anyone else who would like to provide testimony on this issue?
Clegg: My name is Doug Clegg. I'm actually here for another cause, but I'm inspired by
the youth and so I'm going to tell you where I'm from and tell you some thoughts that I
have just quickly. I reside in Eagle at 1342 East Covey Run Court. I'm thrilled at the
youth and it .kind of excites me, because it makes me feel like I watch more TV and do
less public community service. We have got -- our future's in great hands. I remember
when we first started getting mobile phones we called them car phones and I was
actually living in Southern California and at that time the only car phone you could get
was, actually, attached to your vehicle and there was a little remote that set on your
visor and if you weren't in the car the car would honk and so you could drive down the
road very amiably and somebody would call and you'd push a button and it would be
similar to pushing your radio on and the whole car would light up and you would just
talk, chat it up. And, you know, our technological world is evolving very rapidly. I am
definitely in support of a law and in support of positive change. This is an issue in our
society, but I think we have to be very careful and recognize that we are dealing with a
myriad of distractive influences and I'm not supporting the decision of the one individual
that was in contestation of this, I'm just simply saying that however this is drafted, we
have to be very careful that we are not drafting a document that is so micro designed
that as this technology evolves we miss the scope of distractions. So, that's -- that's my
only comment. I doubt you want to ask me questions, so I won't stay, but thank you.
de Weerd: Thank you. Testimony?
Bond: Thank you, Madam Mayor. My name is Ryan Bond of 694 West Amity Road in
Boise.
de Weerd: Thank you, Ryan.
Bond: I have witnessed two accidents, one last year and one this year of texting and
driving. The one last year, a high schooler about a junior, my -- the same year as me --
was coming out of Borah High and he cashed into a female driver, a student of my age,
too, coming into Borah. I went back later to talk to the kid and they never gave him a
ticket. They gave the lady driver, who was paying attention, the ticket, because she
was turning in. And, then, the one this year, the -- there was a truck in front of her and
there was a truck behind her. The guy behind her was texting and driving going 60
miles an hour. He hit the car, which plowed her into the truck in front of her. They don't
know how bad it was. They don't know if -- the guy behind them is fine. He never went
to the hospital. I have almost just today just about got into a wreck. The lady was
pulling out of -- out of a street and I was coming up the hill, didn't see her, she pulled out
in front of me, I honked at her, and she rudely flipped me the bird. And my friend
started laughing, I said it's not funny. That could have been us that could have been
just the same accident that happened two weeks ago. And, then, later that week I went
back to go back to school and another driver did the same thing to me. He pulled out in
front of me when I was trying to get to school and I don't appreciate it, they don't do
anything about it. A cop, he passed me, didn't care. He just went on. And, then, a
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2010
Page 20 of 54
couple weeks ago I witnessed a cop texting and driving. He was coming -- he was in
front of me and stopped for no reason. There was a light in front of me that was green
and stopped to look at his phone and I just about hit him, because I was trying to pay
attention to the person behind me who was tailgating me and I have recently tried to not
get in accidents. Most of them are all caused by texting and driving and I'd appreciate it
if this law was passed, because it would save me the time, it slowed me down at work,
my boss yelled at me for it, and I just about lost my job for it, because too many driver's
were texting at 5:00 o'clock in the morning. I will open up myself for questions.
de Weerd: Thank you. Any questions from Council? Thank you. Any further
comments? Good evening.
Lowe: My name is McKenna Lowe. I live at 13270 West Scotfield Street. I would just
like to say that this issue has become very important to me. It hasn't really directly
affected me. I was riding in a car with a friend and he picked up his phone and I told
him to put it away, because I know what can happen from picking up a cell phone while
driving and he thought he was invincible or something, he didn't listen to me, and just
blew it off and I notice a lot of teenagers are reacting to this and people of all ages, you
know, they just shrug it off and think it's not a big deal. Oh, it's not going to happen to
me. I'm invincible or whatever. But the truth is that it does happen to people and, like I
said, it hasn't happened directly to me, but it has happened to people and it could
happen to any of us and it's one hundred percent preventable and I think until people
who are held accountable for it, either by other people in the car or by a law that
requires them to pay a fine and until they are held accountable for that, they are just
going to keep shrugging it off and saying it's not going to happen to me or until
something bad happens and it needs to be prevented, you know, rather than an
accident actually happening. So, I think this law needs to be passed and it's very
important that people take this more seriously and I think by enforcing that and holding
people accountable more lives can be saved, because what's really that important that
you have to say in that text message and people just don't understand that. So, I would
just like to say that.
de Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Any further comments? Council, any questions for staff?
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I have a process question for Bill. We did -- we do see a
new draft tonight with some additional that weren't on the first reading. We are now
looking at the second and third reading of the ordinance. I'm questioning what's the
appropriate process at this point, to move forward with the action on the ordinance or
should we publish it one more time because of the addition?
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Rountree, our
recommendation would be to bring it back next week. You could do it as a first, second,
and third reading on your next calendar, if you wish to include the definition. We, again,
felt that was -- made it a little bit stronger and more clear. But if you would like to add
that, our recommendation would be to put this on for one more reading. You can
combine all the readings under a first, second, and third and put it on for next week.
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2010
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Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: A question for Mr. Nary. We had talked about this at one time, about texting
while driving and the definition of driving and I see you made the change here in that
first sentence, texting while operating a motor vehicle while such vehicle is in motion
shall be prohibited. So, if I recall correctly, that should take care of the issue at some of
our lights, especially at 5:30 at Fairview and Eagle and you're going to be waiting there
through two lights, you can while you're sitting there, the vehicle is not in motion, you
can text and do that until you start -- start to proceed, is that correct? Did I read that
correctly?
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Hoaglun that is correct.
In the discussion the decision was made to allow that -- if the vehicle were stopped to
allow that type of action, but not while it was moving.
Hoaglun: Okay. Great. Well, I'm a texter, so I like that, but we definitely have to make
sure they are not moving, so --
Nary: Yes.
de Weerd: Any other questions from Council?
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I -- I think the definition adds some substance to some of the
issues that people have brought up about being specific enough in defining what some
of these things are. Though I don't want to put off action on this item, I think it would
help to have that in there and if we can have that definition in and do it as a first,
second, and third reading, that would be where I would suggest we go. If not, I'm
prepared to take action as well. I don't know about the rest of the Council.
de Weerd: Council, what are your thoughts?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would -- I think that draft needs to be put into it. I agree. We can bring it back
forward. I don't agree with the -- I was the one that disagreed with texting in a vehicle at
all. The only time you should be texting is when you're off the street. If you're sitting at
a stop sign how many times have we seen people on phones and stuff -- the light turns
green and they are still sitting there and somebody rams them in the back, because
they are ready to go. I think if they are in a running vehicle they shouldn't be allowed to
do it. That's my opinion. But I think we need to add that to the ordinance so it's clear.
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2010
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Hoaglun: Madam Mayor, I like this ordinance and I do like this change. It does add
some things to it and making sure the definitions are clearly there so our prosecuting
folks can -- not have anything that would hamstring them and it takes out the questions
about GPS and those types of technology and tried to narrow the scope to what we are
trying to deal with and, hopefully, protect people from drivers that aren't paying attention
when they are texting.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I would comment that I hope at sometime soon that the state legislature is
able pass such a law as well. In the meantime, I feel we need to. The dangers are
pretty clear and we should do it. Like the other Councilmen have expressed, putting it
off for another week is not something I would really like to do, but if we end up with an
ordinance that is more enforceable, I think that's the wise thing to do. We all hope that
some day it will be replaced by one made by the legislature, but in the meantime we
need to do this and if it takes another week to get the wording right, then, that's fine with
me.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, just so you know as well, that the draft
that's in front of you tonight was not to be effective until the 1st of November anyway.
So, your delay won't impact what was intended, which was to give a little bit of time for
some media coverage and some opportunity for people to be informed of the change.
By your turnout tonight and the comments we received it sounds like a lot of people
have been informed. So, it won't change, really, what the objective was, which was
November 1st it would be effective.
de Weerd: Chief or Terry, any comments?
Lavey: Madam Mayor, Council. Just one last comment. I do believe that education is
quite necessary, but I will like to point out that for 20 years or more we have been trying
to educate people that drinking and driving is not appropriate and we have over 3,500
DUI arrests here in Ada County alone each and every year. So, we need something
more than merely education. Thank you.
de Weerd: Thank you. Well, Council, I know that this was a passion and a subject of
our Mayor's Youth Advisory Council, but particular at the state level were recognized as
the voice of youth that provided a lot of research as Representative Hagedorn had
pointed out and their passion you have seen in front of you. Certainly was stirred by
some of the personal stories that have hit us very close to home, to our very own
families, and the dangers of this form of distracted driving. They made it their mission
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2010
Page 23 of 54
and I think that their mission gave fuel to our police department and a challenge of how
can we make it work, something that can make our streets a little safer. Some of the
discussion at the state level and the senate committee that considered this or the
transportation committee and, then, pass the senate floor, did have it as a
misdemeanor, which concerned our law enforcement officials, that until you have that
opportunity to get their attention, an infraction was for the first one or two incidences,
was that warning. But after that a misdemeanor was warranted and that they could --
they could pallet that. I think we have a challenge tonight with the response from our
community. We are a -- family friendly and we value our youth, but I don't want to
purport that this is just a youth problem. The other day we were returning from a
meeting in Boise and I was with the chief and deputy chief. We went more than a
football field next to a car that was texting and he didn't even know we were there.
Almost rear-ended the car in front of him until our deputy chief got his attention with his
siren and, then, he looked up. It really was concerning to think that someone can drive
that distance with -- in total oblivion as to what was going on on the road and that's
what's happening. We appreciate everyone that's been here with us tonight. It does
sound like Council will continue this until next week, so that we can fully publish what
has been brought in front of Council this evening with the addition and definition of
wireless handheld device and so action will be taken at our next Council agenda next
week.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would move that we send ordinance -- proposed ordinance number 10-1457
back for redrafting and adding on the definition of a wireless handheld device, bring it
back next week for passage with suspension of rules.
Zaremba: Second.
de Weerd: I have a motion to continue this to next week with the addition of the wording
that's in front of you. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
de Weerd: Thank you for join this evening. I will call a five minute recess, so we can
clear -- clear the room, except for those who would like to stay and join us for the rest of
the meeting.
RECESS: (8:18 p.m. to 8:33 p.m.)
Item 7: Items Moved From Consent Agenda
de Weerd: Okay. I will go ahead and call this meeting back to order. Okay. there were
no items moved from the Consent Agenda.
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2010
Page 24 of 54
Item 8: Action Items
A. Continued Public Hearing from September 28, 2010: VAC 10-
006 for Spring Creek by Douglas Clegg Located at 3165 N.
Meridian Road Request: Vacate an Existing Irrigation
Easement on the Site
de Weerd: So, we will move to Item 8-A, which is a continued public hearing from
September 28th on VAC 10-006.
Wafters: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Just a little background.
The Commission recently approved a Conditional Use Permit for an assisted living
facility on this site. The applicant is requesting approval now to vacate an existing
recorded 12 foot wide public utility drainage and irrigation easement bisecting this site
that serves the Presbyterian Church to the west. The applicant proposes to relocate
this easement along the south boundary of the site. This is a vicinity map and zoning
and aerial view of the property. And the site plan that was approved for the assisted
living facility. You will note the existing easement and the proposed easement location
where it will be relocated. The applicant has submitted a new easement and
maintenance agreement as required by Public Works. It has been signed by the
property owner, but not yet signed by the church. Written testimony has been received
from Doug Clegg, the applicant, in agreement with the staff report and Tim Morgan.
Staff is recommending approval of the subject application. Kyle Radek, assistant city
engineer, will answer any questions the Council may have on this application. Thank
you.
de Weerd: Council, any questions?
Rountree: I have none at this time.
de Weerd: Okay. Does the applicant have any comment?
Clegg: Madam Mayor and City Council, thank you. Doug Clegg for the record again.
1342 East Covey Run Court. I just -- I wanted to thank your staff, they have been very
amenable and done agreat -- great job processing this. I would like to clarify for the
record this -- this easement that we are seeking to abandon was initially put into place
when the church, who owned all this property, did a development application with the
City of Meridian and it was subdivided into Strausser Farms. I believe that's the name
of it. At the time it was subdivided there was a property line about mid way on -- from
north to south running east and west and according to the current ordinance, the current
ordinance at that time, a public utility easement was put in place. That was, I believe, in
2003 and a couple years after that the church entered into an agreement with David
Price, sold him that property, and when they sold it to him I believe what they did was a
metes and bounds adjustment and vacated that property line that was put in place. The
due diligence was never done and the easement was never vacated. The existing
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2010
Page 25 of 54
private sewer that the church currently has in place that is accessed to Meridian Road,
is about 45 feet to the north of this existing easement that's in place -- or a PUC that's in
place right there. We were -- it was requested that we create another easement on the
south side of this project to provide a -- and with that a maintenance agreement with the
church to relocate their sewer and to develop an irrigation lateral that would provide
them access through the irrigation rights through our property. We have done that and
it's our feeling -- opinion, even though incorrect -- and I'm open for education regarding
this -- that there is no and should not be a connective relationship between the
proposed easement on the south side of the project and this existing easement that we
are trying to vacate, which, frankly, just was not done when it -- when that property line
was -- was abandoned back in 2005. So, I'm stating that as a clarification and I'm open
for questions or education or any thoughts on that from staff or Council or the Mayor on
that.
de Weerd: Council, any comments? Or staff?
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I'd have to have comments from staff, because I'm not sure
what he said.
Clegg: I'm not either. I just talk.
de Weerd: I was concerned that I didn't know what he said, too.
Friedman: Madam Mayor, Council Members, I guess it falls to me to provide an answer
to that, so if you will give me just a moment to make one up, I'll see if I can. I believe if
-- what I heard Mr. Clegg saying is there may have been some differences of opinion
over the last few weeks as to the legality and necessity of having this easement and
maintenance agreement. It is a rather unclear situation, but if I'm correct, even if there
was some lack of clarity in it, the applicant has, in the interest of good neighbor -- being
a good neighbor, has provided the easement and the maintenance agreement to
provide some certainty and surety for his neighboring property owner. Did I accurately
reflect what I thought I heard you say?
de Weerd: Now, Doug, is that the property owner the church or the property owner the
suites?
Clegg: It's the church.
de Weerd: Okay.
Clegg: Tim Morgan has been their representative and that private sewer lateral that
they are wanting to keep in place, we certainly want to maintain that, but it has to be
rerouted and it was understood when the property was acquired from them that at some
date they would have to abandon that or reroute that private sewer lateral. But there is
no connection with the private sewer lateral and the current easement that we are trying
to abandon. It's 45 feet to the north of this existing easement and the easement was
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2010
Page 26 of 54
put in place when they subdivided the property to protect --Ithink it was just probably
the ordinance -- of that common property line for future utilities to be brought through
there. So, when the church abandoned that property line, they never did the work to get
rid of the easement and now we are saying we really can't build this building unless we
get rid of it. The misunderstanding Ithink that took place on our part was that we felt
the city's position was -- we are not going to let you abandon this easement until you
first have a new easement in place to protect the sewer and irrigation, but right now the
current easement doesn't protect anything. It's just there. There is no utilities inside the
easement and there is no need for it. We are just saying let's get rid of it. We are going
to do the easement for the sewer and the irrigation and we have a maintenance
agreement for that. What we don't want is to have that hold up our project because the
church -- the way they function, they have got a local and, then, they kind of have a
diocese level where they go through an approval process for signatory procedures. We
are not even until November until we can get them to sign this agreement when they go
through this multi-tiered process and I'm sitting here saying I'm going to be digging 18
inches of frost if we don't get this abandonment taken care of and kind of get things
going a little bit. So, that's kind of our hope. Is that too much information?
Rountree: That's helps.
Clegg: Okay.
de Weerd: Ithink it's just helps to say you will work with the church and make good
whatever and -- you need approval. Is that what I understand you to --
Clegg: In behalf of the church, amen. Yes. We are on board.
de Weerd: Very good.
Clegg: Okay.
de Weerd: Any other questions from Council?
Rountree: I have none.
Bird: I have none.
de Weerd: Thank you. Okay. This is a public hearing. Is there anyone who would like
to provide testimony on this item? Okay. Council?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we close the pubic hearing on Item 8-A.
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2010
Page 27 of 54
Bird: Second.
de Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing on Item 8-A. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we approve VAC 10-006, vacation of the existing irrigation
easement on the site.
Bird: Second.
de Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 8-A. Any discussion?
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Yes.
Hoaglun: Question probably for staff. Was there a change to the DA in this or nothing
that needs to be changed in this?
Friedman: Madam Mayor, Council Members, Council Member Hoaglun, no, there is
nothing affecting any DA or anything. There was a condition of the Conditional Use
Permit that required this matter to be addressed.
Hoaglun: Okay. Thank you.
de Weerd: Okay. Madam Clerk.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
de Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
B. Public Hearing: TE 10-021 Arch Rock Subdivision by CTD
Development, LLC Located at 4550 N. Linder Road Request:
18-Month Time Extension to Obtain the City Engineer's
Signature on the Final Plat
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2010
Page 28 of 54
de Weerd: Item 8-B is a public hearing on TE 10-021. This has been requested to
continue to October 26th. I have opened the public hearing. Council, do I have a
motion to continue?
Rountree: So moved.
Bird: I move that we continue TE 10-021 to October 6, 2010.
Zaremba: Second.
Bird: October 26. I'm sorry.
Zaremba: Second.
de Weerd: I have a motion and a second to continue this to October 26. All those in
favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
C. Public Hearing: TE 10-022 Ambercreek No. 2 by Trilogy
Development Located Southwest Corner of N. Meridian Road
and W. McMillan Road Request: Approval of an 18-Month Time
Extension to Obtain the City Engineer's Signature on the Final
Plat
de Weerd: Item 8-C is a public hearing on TE 10-022. I will open the public hearing
with staff comments.
Friedman: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. The time extension is
for Amber Creek Subdivision final plat number two. The site is located on the southwest
corner of Meridian Road and McMillan Road. The original plat was approved by Council
in February 2006 and the final plat was approved by Council initially in July of 2006.
Subsequent to that time the applicants did apply for and have received two time
extensions to obtain the city engineer's signature on the final plat. The last time
extension that was granted by the Council back in -- I believe it was March of this year,
was predicated -- that approval was predicated on the applicant signing and -- the
development agreement, which had not been signed, but also to construct the five foot
sidewalk along McMillan Road along the boundary of the subdivision and, in fact, there
had originally been some conditions for that to be extended off site to Meridian Road.
That -- both of those conditions have been met. The development agreement has been
signed, the sidewalk has been constructed. So, they have fulfilled the conditions of the
last time extension. Therefore, staff is recommending approval of this third time
extension without any new conditions to be added to it. And that is all I have.
de Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions?
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2010
Page 29 of 54
Bird: I have none.
de Weerd: Is the applicant here this evening?
Brownley: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. For the record, Shawn
Brownley, 2365 South Titanium Place in Meridian. And we are requesting an 18 month
time extension and we do concur with the staff report and I would just really like to say
that we apologize for not meeting our obligations on phase one. There was some
turnaround in the office, lack of experience with the development agreement and
everything, so I'd just make a record that I really do apologize that wasn't done the last
time I came in front of you, so I am happy to say that it is completed and just request a
time extension. I'll stand for questions, apologize, and thank you.
de Weerd: Thank you. Any questions from Council?
Rountree: I have none.
Bird: I have none.
de Weerd: Okay. Is there any testimony on this item? Seeing none, Council, any
further questions for staff or applicant?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we close the public hearing on TE 10-022.
Rountree: Second.
de Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing on Item 8-C. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve TE 10-022, the Amber Creek No. 2.
Hoaglun: Second.
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2010
Page 30 of 54
de Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 8-C. If there is no discussion,
Madam Clerk, will you, please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
de Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
D. Public Hearing: TE 10-023 Zebulon Heights Subdivision No. 2
by The Traditions by Amyx II, LLP Located South Side of E.
McMillan Road and West of N. Eagle Road Request: Approval
for an 18-Month Time Extension to Obtain the City Engineer's
Signature on the Final Plat
de Weerd: Item 8-D is a public hearing on TE 10-023. I will open this public hearing
with staff comments.
Wafters: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. The next application
before you is a request for approval of a third 18 month time extension to obtain the city
engineer's signature on a second phase final plat of the Zebulon Heights Subdivision
No. 2 preliminary plat. Here is a vicinity map of the property. The property is located on
the south side McMillan Road, west of Eagle Road. A copy of the preliminary plat that
was approved for this subdivision. It consists of 175 single family residential building
lots and 20 common other lots on 72.85 acres of land. The applicant states the
construction drawings and final plat for the next phrase have been completed and the
construction plans have been approved by all governing agencies. The project is under
construction and expected to be paved on or before November 15th of this year. The
developer intends to record the final plat for Zebulon Heights Subdivision No. 3 in 2010.
A little background on this project. A development agreement was approved with
annexation of the property, which required future buildings on the site to comply with the
elevations approved by Council with the planned development Conditional Use Permit.
These are copies of the elevations that were approved at that time. Because the
Unified Development Code now requires ten percent open space to be provided for
developments over five acres in size, the applicant has submitted a revised conceptual
plat showing 10.91 percent qualified open space as required. As a condition of the
subject time extension, the applicant shall be required to provide a minimum of 10.91
percent open space as proposed. There are no outstanding issues for City Council.
Written testimony was received on this application from Sheri Stiles, the applicant's
representative, in agreement with the staff report. Staff is recommending approval of
the time extension with the conditions in Exhibit B of the report. Staff will stand for any
questions the Council may have.
de Weerd: Council, any questions for staff?
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2010
Page 31 of 54
Rountree: I have none.
de Weerd: Okay. Would the applicant like to make comment? Good evening.
McKay: Becky McKay, Engineering Solutions, 1025 North Rosario, Meridian. I'd just
like to let the Council know that this phase is under construction. We are about 70
percent through and we plan on paving this. With this particular -- this phase that you
approved here back in July, we will be opening up our second entrance to McMillan
Road and bridging the Settlers Canal, which is desired by the existing residents out
there, because we have got a lot of complaints about left-hand turns onto Eagle Road
and I would like to let the Council know that they told me the other day that all their
model homes were sold and these are larger, what I would consider kind of, you know
upper end homes and the big selling point they have out there is they allow an RV
garage or they allow an accessory building behind the home, because we have larger,
deeper lots and so it's kind of setting them apart from the others, but -- and they have
had a lot more interest in custom homes since they saw the construction with the
McMillan entrance, because a lot of people were turned off by Eagle Road entrance
limitation. Thank you. Do you have any questions I'd be glad to answer them.
de Weerd: Council, any questions?
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor, just one quick one, Becky. You have no problem -- the new
update on open space, the 7.95 acres, you will be able to meet that it sounds like?
McKay: Yeah. It's based on the calculation. We have about 85 percent of the project is
detached walks, so with that -- being able to count that parkway, then, that puts us up
over the ten percent. I know we had a big discussion on the last time extension about
imposing new standards on older projects. Thank you.
Hoaglun: Thank you.
de Weerd: This is a public hearing. Is there any member of the public who would like to
provide testimony on this item? Okay. Seeing none, Council.
Bird: Madam Mayor'?
de Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we close the public hearing on TE 10-023.
Rountree: Second.
de Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing on Item 8-D. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2010
Page 32 of 54
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Bird: Madam Mayor`?
de Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve TE 10-023.
Hoaglun: Second.
de Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 8-D. If there is -- yes.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor, just to clarify with the maker of the motion, that is to include
the condition that they meet the ten percent open space?
Bird: Yeah. That's right. You bet. That's included in the motion.
Hoaglun: Then, second will agree.
Bird: It was part of her testimony.
de Weerd: Per the drawing in front of you; correct?
Bird: You bet.
de Weerd: Okay. If there is no further discussion, Madam Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
de Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
E. Public Hearing: MDA 10-008 Regency at River Valley by Bach
Investments, LLC Located at 2500 N. Eagle Road Request:
Modify the Site Plan, Landscape Plan, Building Elevations and
Certain Provisions Contained in the Development Agreement
Approved for the Regency at River Valley Apartment Project
de Weerd: Item 8-E is a public hearing on MDA 10-008.
Watters: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. The project site is
located on the east side of Eagle Road between Ustick and Fairview Avenue. This is a
request for a development agreement modification. There is also a conditional use
permit modification in process to be heard by the Commission on Thursday. The
applicant requests approval to modify the site plan, landscape plan, building elevations
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2010
Page 33 of 54
and certain provisions contained in the development agreement for Regency at River
Valley apartment project as follows: A change in the maximum number of apartment
units from 204 to 240. A change in the minimum square footage of the clubhouse from
4,804 square feet to 4,536 square feet and removal of the 75 -- excuse me -- 755
square foot cabana. The restrooms and changing area that were originally proposed in
the cabana are being included in the clubhouse now. A change from a water feature to
a bronze statute at the entryway and inclusion of a hot tub as a site amenity. Update
the requirement for covered parking spaces to reflect that shown on the updated site
plan and the previously approved variance. Allow for a temporary emergency access to
be provided via Eagle Road until such time as Allys Avenue extends from River Valley
to the north and connects to Ustick Road. Remove the requirement for a six foot tall
chain link fence to be installed along the south slough and pedestrian bridge to be
constructed over the South Slough as the South Slough has been tiled. Staff also
recommends the design of the site and all future structures comply with the Meridian
design manual and the building materials for the clubhouse are consistent with those of
the apartment buildings. I'll just go over the changes here. The plan on the left is the
previously approved site and landscape plan. The one on the right is the proposed
plan. There is one less building proposed now. The apartment buildings are going to
four stories, rather than three, as previously proposed. These are the previously
approved building elevations that show the three story versus the four story as
proposed. Basically, the same building materials as before. This is the previously
approved clubhouse elevations and floor plan. And this is the proposed elevation. It's
the same elevation, just different building materials and new floor plan. Staff is
recommending approval of this application. There was written testimony submitted by
Greg Rindlesbacher in response to the staff report in agreement. That's all staff has. If
the Council has any questions.
de Weerd: Council, any questions for staff?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I do have one. In the packet -- and this would be the next to the last page,
which the pages aren't numbered, but it's the 14th page in the packet, listing the
conditions. I understand with the South Slough having been tiled there is no need to
have a bridge over it, but it appears that the entire paragraph S is being crossed out,
which means that we are losing the ten foot wide multi-use pathway and it seems to be
rather than the entire S being crossed out, only the two words and bridge should be
crossed out. The ten -- ten foot multi-use pathway still needs to remain. Am I not
interpreting this correct? Because it's not real clear, but it just looks to me like all of A is
crossed out.
Wafters: Madam Mayor, Councilman Zaremba, if you look at the site plan, the multi-use
pathway is shown to be constructed to the property line here at the northwest corner of
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2010
Page 34 of 54
the site and development of the site is required to comply with the site plan.
Zaremba: Okay.
Wafters: There is also a requirement of the conditional use modification that that be
constructed also.
Zaremba: Okay.
Hoaglun: So, Madam Mayor and Sonya, just to make sure I understand, the picture
trumps the words, because I see what Councilman Zaremba is talking about, so that
site plan that the picture depicted with the pathway, that's what they must follow.
Wafters: That is correct. I was just looking to see if there was another condition in
here. I was thinking there was that dealt with the pathway. But we can leave that in
and, you know, modify that if it's the Council desire.
Friedman: Madam Mayor, Council Members, as Sonya said, we can leave it in here or
-- it's clearly our intent to leave it in there and if -- if the Council's comfortable that we
can also include that as a condition of approval in the CU mod that will be heard on
Thursday. We will get it either way and it will be binding either way, it's just whatever
the Council's most comfortable with.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I think for clarity in the future it probably
would be better to just eliminate the bridge language and leave the condition there for
the pathways, so we aren't relying just on the drawing. It might be safer.
de Weerd: Okay.
Rountree: Madam Mayor'?
de Weerd: Yes, Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Question for Sonya. What's -- and I can't make it out on this -- this
rendering. On .the proposed modifications on the south border is that parking and
parking garages or --
Wafters: Madam Mayor, Councilman Rountree, Councilmen, those are parking garages
and there are also some just regular parking spaces and covered parking spaces.
Rountree: Okay.
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2010
Page 42 of 54
with changes to the different schedules almost every year or every other year, new
drugs come around. The basic components that are listed in that model ordinance are
found in virtually every form of Spice that's been marketed today. They all come from a
basic set of compounds that all mimic the initial effects of THC. When we first started
looking here with who was taking it, we didn't have to even leave own department. As
you know, we have probation and .parole housed within the police department and they
were getting it thrown in their face with their own parolees and probationers coming in
and saying, no, I'm clean, your tests aren't going to find this and all of them were
admitting right up front that they were smoking Spice as an alternative to doing anything
that we had currently as being illegal. Then it became -- I mean as a title wave, it hit the
drug courts and they were finding over 30 percent of their kids in the drug courts were
testing positive for Spice. Just two months ago when I contacted the state as part of
this early committee with the office of drug policy and I said can you test for this. They
said, no, we are not set up to test for it. I'm telling you two weeks ago they said we can
now, because everybody's had to jump and run and do everything they can to get in
place. Traditionally when we get a drug on the street we apply what's called an NIC test
kit to it. We don't have that yet. Nobody has it, even the states that have already
passed the laws and the 13 other states, they don't have a field test kit for Spice. There
is a university that believes they have that done. It's going through all the process -- or
the testing phase now before they will be able to get that product back out on the streets
for all of the states that have already outlawed it. But we have labs that can test for it.
We still have ways that we can enforce it. There is nothing preventing us from doing the
enforcement of Spice now, other than having the tools and I'll turn it over now to either
one of the attorneys and they can talk about the advantages and disadvantages of
where we sit currently with what was just passed by the Board of Pharmacy and any
potentials for struggling with that enforcement rule as it sits, unless there is any
questions I can answer first.
de Weerd: Council, I would say that earlier the chief and I met with the school principals
about texting while driving, about this Spice, as the chief told the principals, synthetic
drugs -- this is just the tip of the iceberg, so -- any questions, comments for --okay. Bill.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I'm going to let Terry speak directly on
the ordinance. Terry is the one that helped craft this ordinance for us and -- but I will
say, you know, the debate that you will hear from both the public or other attorneys not
in this room, is whether or not this is necessary, whether or not we should either wait for
the state or whether or not it's enforceable now and we have the same concern, Terry
has the same concern, that although it maybe illegal now -- or classified now by the
Board of Pharmacy, it's not in the Idaho Code that this particular substance and
mixtures of substances are illegal and that's the concern. You know, I'll echo the same
thing that was said by the chief and Lieutenant Overton, I have never seen anybody
selling a legal product by waving a sign like this and although the governor's good
intention of wanting people to have the opportunity to return the product and get rid of it
lawfully, I think the 50 percent signs that I was told about today by four different people
says really what people are trying to do to get rid of this stuff. So, I don't think -- I don't
think delay is really the right answer to curb this problem or address this. And the last
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de Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I'm pleased to see you taking advantage of some new height limitations. I
believe we changed sometime ago and going to the four stories. My only question
would be are there going to be elevators or does everybody go up and down the stairs
for --
Rindlesbacher: We are debating that right now. There is projects we have seen that
are four story without elevators. We may do a mix, but we are not sure yet. We are still
doing a little research on that.
Zaremba: I'm curious I guess.
Rindlesbacher: Yeah.
Zaremba: As I get older I get adverse to going up and down stairs.
de Weerd: Okay. Any other questions from Council?
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
de Weerd: Thank you.
Rindlesbacher: Okay. Thank you.
de Weerd: Is there any testimony on this item? Okay. Council, what is your desire
here?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we close the public hearing on MDA 10-008.
Rountree: Second.
de Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing on Item 8-E. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Bird
Bird: I move we approve MDA 10-008 with staff and applicant comments.
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2010
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Rountree: Second.
de Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 8-E. Is there any discussion
from Council? Seeing none, Madam Clerk, will you, please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
de Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 9: Department Reports
A. Mayor's Office Department Report: Amended Resolution No.
10-745A: An Amended Resolution of the Mayor and the City
Council of Meridian Clarifying the Ex-Officio Members of the
Solid Waste Advisory Commission and Appointing Todd
Carlson to the Meridian Solid Waste Advisory Commission
de Weerd: Under 9-A, Council, I do have an amended resolution number 10-745A. It is
clarifying the ex-officio members of the Solid Waste Advisory Commission and also
appointing an additional citizen Todd Carlson to that Commission. I stand for any
questions.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Yes.
Rountree: As I recall the makeup of that -- had a Council member to be an ex-officio; is
that correct? Has that been assigned?
Bird: That's Charlie Rountree.
de Weerd: Uh-huh. That would be you.
Rountree: Because I have not heard.
Bird: We volunteered you, Charlie.
de Weerd: Hey, you have a good deal. We are not going to change it.
Rountree: Again I thank you all. I hadn't seen anything on that, so --
Bird: You didn't think you was going to get off, did you?
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2010
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Rountree: Well, no, I didn't figure it, but I just wanted to get an official notice.
Bird: We need that experience between you and Bill.
de Weerd: Okay. If there is no questions, I would appreciate a motion.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we approve the amended resolution 10-745A with authorizing
the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest.
Zaremba: Second.
de Weerd: So, the motion is to approve resolution number 10-745A. Any discussion?
Hearing none, Madam Clerk, roll call.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
de Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
B. Police Department Report: Proposed Ordinance Prohibiting
Sale and Use of Synthetic Cannabinoids ("Spice")
de Weerd: Item 9-B is discussion on a proposed ordinance. And I will turn this over to
the chief.
Lavey: Madam Mayor, Council, I believe it was two weeks ago that I mentioned in the
department report that we would be back in front of you discussing Spice and over the
past several weeks you have probably heard a lot more in the media and from the
governor's office and even a press release was distributed today. But let me say that
with Spice, Genie, Ultra, Bombay Blue, Black Momba, K-2, Yucatan Gold -- none of
these items are cooking spice, cartoon characters, reptiles or any type of snow skis or
high mountains, but it is actually a product sold as an incense not for human
consumption, but, actually, it is an herbal plant mixture soaked in chemicals that mimic
active ingredients in marijuana. Why is this alarming to us? Well, officers are dealing
with our youth with substance -- this substance in the schools. We have adults that are
resisting arrest and being involved in other disturbances and domestic violence's and
both our youth and our adults are showing up in our hospitals on a weekly basis. We
have eight -- excuse me. We have 80 documented visits to our emergency rooms in
over the last six months. These are only the documented incidences where the person
has either confessed to or we have additional evidence that prove that they were under
consuming Spice. There is many more incidences that have not been documented.
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2010
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We have worked with the governor's office, the office of drug policy, the DEA, the U.S.
Attorney's Office and other entities with trying to get Spice outlawed in the state of
Idaho. This has met with some resistance as the claim that it's merely an incense.
Well, we have documented incidences that people are offering to deliver grams of Spice
to schools, to parks, and other places to our kids and other adults. Some places it goes
for five dollars a gram. We recently had a commercial burglary here in Meridian where
they were trying to steal hundred dollar a gram Spice. I don't know what makes it more
valuable, but it's out there. This really kind of goes back to our discussion on texting
while driving and why is this a local problem and not a state problem or a federal
problem. And, once again, we would like to take a proactive approach before this slaps
us in the face. Now, I have brought a couple additional people that can speak about
this and give you some history on this better than I can and hopefully they will answer
your questions and really that's what this is all about today. But I believe in your
packets you have a proposed ordinance for this. I will defer this to our legal department
and to Terry Derden, who is the author of this, but we have it set that it would sunset if
such a time comes that it becomes a permanent state law. The one thing I will tell you
that you have probably heard about is that there is an emergency rule that just got
approved with Department of Pharmacy. That's temporary and it's upon the legislators
to decide whether they are going to make that a permanent law. Further, the
emergency rule needs to be signed by the governor, which it has not. He has indicated
that he is going to sign it and he indicates that he is going to sign it in ten days to give
our retailers a chance to either properly dispose of the product, return it, try to get their
money back and such. And I think that that's a really good idea. Well, like our texting,
it's going to involve a lot of education on the part of our business leaders, our schools,
our community, our business retailers. One of the other things that has been up for
discussion is can the Department of Pharmacy deal with other entities beyond licensed
pharmacies and as anybody would guess that you put two attorneys in the room they
will argue different points, but --
Nary: It depends on the attorneys.
Lavey: It does depend on the attorneys. But it -- it is the opinion of the governor's
attorneys that it would allow the Department of Pharmacy rule to make it a schedule one
narcotic and it would affect everybody, not just the pharmacies. Recently a Deputy
Attorney General said that law enforcement could not enforce this emergency rule and
the governor's attorney disagrees with that, although there is a couple different
concerns that we have that either Terry Derden or Mr. Nary will talk about, why a local
ordinance would probably make more sense for us. So, with that being said, I'm going
to turn it over to Lieutenant John Overton first to give you a little bit more history or I
suppose I'll open it up for questions right now and, then, I can let him answer those
questions and go into his presentation and, then, we will open it up to the attorneys.
de Weerd: And I guess, Council, before I ask for questions, I would like to express my
thanks to our police department, to the chief, to Lieutenant Overton, to Terry for their
responsiveness and their proactive actions and their understanding what this is. It's
presented itself in very rapid order and as we were discussing we had a presentation to
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October 5, 2010
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our Faith Ambassadors Council and I know that Lieutenant Overton has given a number
of PowerPoint presentations to educate and to give a heads up to our hospitals, to our
safety personnel, to our community, to the schools, to whoever would listen to him and
to other communities and those other communities have responded back that had they
not gotten that information they would not have understood what was presenting itself to
them and would not have known how to respond. I think you can take pride in your law
enforcement that they are taking the lead on this and as we sat in the U.S. Attorney's
Office on Friday we were apprised on a number of things and one of them was this --
and the very serious growing concern this is. They told the Faith Ambassadors Council
we have a conservative Council that doesn't believe in passing laws just to pass laws,
that there has to be a serious issue and we believe this is serious. The message to our
youth has been this is legal and that's what endangers them even more, because even
though it says do not consume on the packaging, it's still legal. And it's been
congesting our juvenile justice courts, our adult courts. It is a rapidly -- I don't think we
have seen any kind of rapidly growing issue like this is and it's an in-your-face issue.
There is not too many potpourri or incense dealers out there who shake a sign saying
you can get 50 percent off and because we want your house to smell so good, we will
deliver it to you. There is a very major concern there. So, I just appreciate our police
department, our prosecutor, our city attorney, for stepping up and working together and
seeing how we can address this community concern.
Lavey: With that said I will turn it over to Lieutenant Overton.
de Weerd: Thank you.
Overton: Good evening, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Spice kind of
presented itself at the beginning of the summer we started to hear about it and we knew
nothing about Spice. It was kind of embarrassing that we didn't know anything about it.
As part of our Mayor's anti-drug coalition and our drug free communities grant, I travel at
least once a year to what's called the biggest anti drug conference in the world and this
year it was in Phoenix, Arizona, and one of the things on our agenda for me and our
project director Elisha Figueroa was to find out as much as we could about Spice and
what we can do when we get back here. What we found out was quite alarming that
many states in the southern United States have been dealing with Spice for three years.
I don't remember reading anything in Time magazine, Newsweek, anywhere about this
until it was on our doorstep. It's really been kind of very quiet as it's come through. At
that period of time -- and we are talking July of this year, there were only seven to eight
states that had legislation against Spice. I mean they got caught off guard, just like we
did, and we are trying after three years to get legislation to figure it out. Where it sits
right now as I sit here -- and this is updated from the office of drug policy currently, is we
have 13 states and 17 countries and the U.S. military that have outlawed this. It might
be new here, but it's been around in Europe and in Germany since 2002. It was
designed for -- there is a couple different stories about what it was designed for. It was
done on some research for cancer patients originally. It was never designed with any
type of human use. They never found one. But somebody found the recipe and the
found out that they can make this product, put it on just about any green leafy
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October 5, 2010
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substance and smoke it and get a high much more potent than marijuana. When we
first heard about Spice we thought it was a legal form of marijuana. What we have
discovered since then -- and you heard the chief rattle off a whole series of names, you
also heard him talk about different prices. Of the list of components that are in the
ordinance, there is a couple of those components in there that have the ability by
concentration to be 25, 50 and up to a hundred times stronger than the THC in
marijuana. The marketers that we have in the valley have been doing everything they
can to say this is an incense product and I love the one when they say it's aroma
therapy, because I actually spent some time yesterday afternoon in one of our very
legitimate spas that does aroma therapy and talked to them at length about what aroma
therapy is and the essential oils that are legitimately used and they laughed -- they had
never heard of Spice and you wouldn't rub a plant material or use it at anytime for
aroma therapy. It doesn't exist. It wouldn't be used in any legitimate form. So, we go
back to the incense, which is their claim to fame. It's incense only because it's an
unregulated section of our marketing. But, then, it's marked not for human
consumption. The part that really -- we struggled with to begin with is you're taking a
product, you're saying you can light it and use it as an incense, but you can't consume
it. Well, unless you're lighting and you're not in your house, you're going to be
consuming it in some manner or not and if you have children in that house, a scenario
we threw out very early, you could very well wind up with your children in the
emergency room facing an injury to child report, because they have inhaled these
almost toxic fumes of these chemicals that are so much more powerful than marijuana.
I was on the conference call, as was Terry Derden with the Board of Pharmacy when
the ruling was made, because I got myself in a position to sit on the early meetings as
that was set up and I listened to them argue on why we should allow Spice to be legal
and we heard the aroma therapy argument, we heard the argument that it was only
being sold to adults. At no point did they ever come back and really prove to anyone
that it was safe and it didn't take very long for the Board of Pharmacy to overwhelmingly
approve this as an addition -- all of those chemicals to schedule one. The most striking
argument that I can't get past as we look at this is we are not talking about an
alternative to alcohol, we are talking about an alternative to a substance that's already
illegal and we are not only talking about an alternative to a substance that's already
illegal, but a synthetic form that is much more potent and powerful and depending on
how they mix these substances together has drastically different and more harmful
effects on the people we are dealing with. Joe Silva was telling me just as we were
starting that he heard about when one of the officers -- or, excuse me, nine of the
officers were out on one subject who had overdosed on Spice, because we are dealing
with people that are out of their minds. It's not normal behavior. Certainly not -- if
anyone's a fan of watching the old Cheech and Chong movies, that's not a normal
response to someone who even smokes marijuana. This is stuff that's way beyond that,
much more dangerous, much more unpredictable. This is advertised and I don't think
we have a soul here tonight trying to argue that Spice is something that needs to be part
of our society. It didn't go over well when they were up against the Board of Pharmacy.
think they are going to go way once we get an ordinance in place. If it goes
underground, you know, we will deal with it as we have to deal with it. The arguments
about if the chemical compositions change, well, we deal with that all the time. We deal
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2010
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with changes to the different schedules almost every year or every other year, new
drugs come around. The basic components that are listed in that model ordinance are
found in virtually every form of Spice that's been marketed today. They all come from a
basic set of compounds that all mimic the initial effects of THC. When we first started
looking here with who was taking it, we didn't have to even leave own department. As
you know, we have probation and parole housed within the police department and they
were getting it thrown in their face with their own parolees and probationers coming in
and saying, no, I'm clean, your tests aren't going to find this and all of them were
admitting right up front that they were smoking Spice as an alternative to doing anything
that we had currently as being illegal. Then it became -- I mean as a title wave, it hit the
drug courts and they were finding over 30 percent of their kids in the drug courts were
testing positive for Spice. Just two months ago when I contacted the state as part of
this early committee with the office of drug policy and I said can you test for this. They
said, no, we are not set up to test for it. I'm telling you two weeks ago they said we can
now, because everybody's had to jump and run and do everything they can to get in
place. Traditionally when we get a drug on the street we apply what's called an NIC test
kit to it. We don't have that yet. Nobody has it, even the states that have already
passed the laws and the 13 other states, they don't have a field test kit for Spice. There
is a university that believes they have that done. It's going through all the process -- or
the testing phase now before they will be able to get that product back out on the streets
for all of the states that have already outlawed it. But we have labs that can test for it.
We still have ways that we can enforce it. There is nothing preventing us from doing the
enforcement of Spice now, other than having the tools and I'll turn it over now to either
one of the attorneys and they can talk about the advantages and disadvantages of
where we sit currently with what was just passed by the Board of Pharmacy and any
potentials for struggling with that enforcement rule as it sits, unless there is any
questions I can answer first.
de Weerd: Council, I would say that earlier the chief and I met with the school principals
about texting while driving, about this Spice, as the chief told the principals, synthetic
drugs -- this is just the tip of the iceberg, so -- any questions, comments for -- okay. Bill.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I'm going to let Terry speak directly on
the ordinance. Terry is the one that helped craft this ordinance for us and -- but I will
say, you know, the debate that you will hear from both the public or other attorneys not
in this room, is whether or not this is necessary, whether or not we should either wait for
the state or whether or not it's enforceable now and we have the same concern, Terry
has the same concern, that although it maybe illegal now -- or classified now by the
Board of Pharmacy, it's not in the Idaho Code that this particular substance and
mixtures of substances are illegal and that's the concern. You know, I'll echo the same
thing that was said by the chief and Lieutenant Overton, I have never seen anybody
selling a legal product by waving a sign like this and although the governor's good
intention of wanting people to have the opportunity to return the product and get rid of it
lawfully, I think the 50 percent signs that I was told about today by four different people
says really what people are trying to do to get rid of this stuff. So, I don't think -- I don't
think delay is really the right answer to curb this problem or address this. And the last
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thing I'll say is, you know, I have read some of the articles, Lieutenant Overton has read
much more information and research on this subject, but I'll tell you -- and one thing
have not seen in any product -- or any article about Spice is a person who bought it who
uses it as incense and said this really is good and I'd hate to lose it. I haven't read
anybody that uses it as incense. So, I don't really think it's being used as incense,
think it's being used for something else. But I will let Terry speak to the ordinance
directly and the concern from the prosecution staff.
de Weerd: Well, in fact, I did ask the chief -- I said what does it smell like. I mean
potpourri, incense, usually it's -- you burn it or have it in your house because it's
supposed to smell the house up in a good way.
Nary: Yeah. I think they sell incense and potpourri at Fred Meyers and Walmart and I
don't think they sell Spice either, so --
de Weerd: No.
Nary: -- I think they figured out where the ceiling is here, so --
de Weerd: Yeah. And I don't think it's to smoke it. Terry.
Derden: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, two things they addressed. One is I
have smelled it not burnt. We have samples of it from my office and when I went to
teach in Arizona to a conference of officers about Fourth Amendment, it was on the
discussion as well with Spice and Officer Galloway had several different versions of it
that he had gone in and bought from smoke shops in uniform and they were happy to
sell it to him, because they smiled that it's legal, officer. Have as much as you want.
And so it doesn't smell like vanilla or anything you think would make your house smell
better, it's smells like a weed or what any other kind of spice you buy off the rack at
Walmart or Albertson's would smell like when you open it up. It's simply a sprayed
chemical on a substance. The other thing is when you have two lawyers in a room they
typically fight, when you have three we get a third opinion, so -- as to the ordinance, I
can't take most of the credit for this. Jodi Nafzger, my predecessor out here in Meridian
and who still works for the Boise police department, wrote this and spent as much time
as Lieutenant Overton has on it. I simply did -- I simply assisted her with it and went
through making it applicable for Meridian. When we look at the sections you will see
that we made it unlawful for any person to use or possess. I think it's important how we
define person in Section C, meaning any individual corporation, partnership, wholesale
or retailer, licensed or unlicensed business, including a clerk, manager, owner of
business. We didn't want this to apply simply to students in schools. You know, I have
SRO Officer Hurst and Officer Rowe come into my office almost every day that I'm in
Meridian and tell me about they have got a kid with Spice and what can they do with it.
Can we charge the inhalants code, can we charge this, and I tell them be patient, I'm
working on it. We are all working on it. Pretty soon it will be illegal and we can cite
those kids for it and get them into court and deal with them appropriately, as we would
any kid who misuses a substance. So, person is defined in that way and I think that
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makes it clear to cover those people, so that if for some reason the governor fails to
sign that, the retailers at least in Meridian would be required to pull it from the shelves.
Next is as you look in the sections, including the chemicals, never more had I wished
paid more attention in chemistry and biology classes than I did when we sat through
those meetings with the pharmacy board. I can't pronounce most of these, but I can tell
you that they are correct and that we left it up to the pharmacy board and the actual
doctors and chemists on that board to come up with the correct compound. Some of
these are pulled from -- when we originally drafted it we had five compounds. One of
the compounds we didn't realize was already a scheduled drug. The compound has
been removed. That was HU-211. You will see it's no longer on this new list of A
through G. HU-210 is not. HU-210 is now on this list to be covered as well. The chief
gave you the list of all the names we hear it go by. All of those names that he listed off
would be covered under this list of chemicals. Also important is Section H and I have
sent to Mr. Nary a copy of how I think H should be slightly amended to be a little
broader to cover synthetic cannabinoids and I think he will make that amendment for
you as we get closer to having readings on this. That's all I have to say about the
ordinance itself. I think it's fairly well written. Not to toot my own horn. But it makes
sense and it's easy for officers to put into practice. You're going to get some questions
over the next couple of weeks and I want to head those off at the pass here. One is
what the pharmacy board actually did and what that authority was for. My office, Ralph
Brown, Jodi Nafzger, and I have talked about this at length, along with Tim Jorgensen,
who is a Deputy Attorney General, about what action the pharmacy board and the
government -- governor takes and how that actually gets applied. The pharmacy board
has to rule to change the control substances list under IDAPA. That authority is derived
from state code. That state code allows them to change the controlled substances list,
but it limits them to say you can enact a temporary emergency measure to change the
state code list of controlled substances and that temporary rule can be effective until --
well, it becomes effective once the governor signs it and it is effective until the end of
the next legislative session. That gives the next legislative session the ability to adopt it
as a permanent change to the controlled substances list. The governor has to sign that
to make it effective. The legislature then has to act to make it permanent. The
ordinance as designed has that sunset clause in it, so that if the ordinance is passed by
Council, then, it is no longer needed. Mr. Nary can either come before you and ask to
have it repealed with the chief or it, essentially, becomes something we no longer use.
The other question I think you will get when we have commentary from the public about
this is when the governor signs this into law under this temporary rule, trafficking in
Spice, selling it, will instantly become a felony, because trafficking in marijuana over a
certain amount is a felony and anyone who is caught selling it in an amount over certain
ounces is going to be charged with trafficking as a felony. The county will have that
option. Now, with an ordinance in place that makes it a misdemeanor to sell it, you get
the chance to educate those people. I would say there won't be few, but there will be
many -- and at least when they go to court to argue it there will be a lot who say I didn't
know Spice was illegal to sell. I'm very sorry. Can I have a free pass here? And just
like with texting and driving, we say, no, you don't get a pass, you get an infraction. We
will say, no, you don't get a felony, you get a misdemeanor. So, it gives the county that
ability -- it gives us that ability to prosecute as misdemeanors. When the -- the state
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October 5, 2010
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legislature acts and they make it a felony, the county now will have some ability to deal
with cases in Meridian at least who say you were charged with trafficking, it was a small
amount, we'd like to be able to offer you this plea bargain deal. So, it gives the freedom
to your county prosecutors and your city prosecutors as we move forward to learn how
to deal with Spice in the future. The last thing I'll talk about is can't we just use the state
code. The governor's office is clear that once he signs that rule -- that temporary rule
does go into effect and it makes it illegal under 3727(32)(c)(3), which you may not know,
but is close to my heart, because that's what we charge every person that has
marijuana with. Just like the Fourth Amendment, that's what makes me -- keeps me so
busy. But those -- that particular code section would have to, then -- the officer would
have to cite that, cite the IDAPA rule, and, then, site the state code for the IDAPA rule
that gives that authority. That's a lot for an SRO that's busy to write on a high schooler's
citation to provide them the correct notice of what they are being charged of. The
argument also, then, exits for that person to come to court and say I had no notice of
this, because while IDAPA acted and maybe the pharmacy board published it under the
rules effective for publishing a new amendment to a law, they didn't publish it as they
would a part of the code and make it an official part of state code until the legislature
acts. This makes it much cleaner in terms of your officers being able to charge it and to
be able to prosecute it the way that it's written. With that I will take any other questions
from you.
de Weerd: Thank you, Terry. Council, questions?
Rountree: Madam Mayor, just a point of clarification. Assuming the governor signs it
and it falls under the state statute or codes that you cited, you indicated that that's
prosecuted as a felony based on amount?
Derden: Well, trafficking would --
Rountree: Or trafficking.
Derden: Trafficking would be.
Rountree: Okay.
Derden: Simple possession still would be a misdemeanor.
Rountree: Okay. With our ordinance in place you're saying that trafficking in Spice
could be prosecuted as a misdemeanor?
Derden: With the ordinance in place it gives the county prosecutor the ability to pick.
Rountree: So, he can choose either one.
Derden: He will be able to choose either one. Essentially, what would happen,
Councilman, is that misdemeanor citation like it gets written, it comes to my office for
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October 5, 2010
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screening. We look at it and investigate and go this is really a trafficking case with a
seller who was warned or maybe previously had been given a citation, we are going to
ask the county to now prosecute this as a felony.
Rountree: Okay.
Derden: So, it gives us the ability to move that up, rather than start as a felony and their
work way down.
Rountree: Okay.
de Weerd: Any other questions from Council?
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor, I have a question and I don't know if it's for Terry or maybe
Lieutenant Overton, but part of this is an education process. I mean we as a community
we do this, we ban the substance, it's against the law, how do we get that word out
there? A, for the kids who may be using it, for the dealers, the sellers of this substance,
what -- do we have a plan for that?
Derden: Well, if you want I will take that -- or at least the first swing at it, Madam Mayor
and Councilman Hoaglun. The -- like the texting with driving and the gentleman that
talked about earlier, I wish education alone would work. I'd much rather be a professor
than a prosecutor, but the chief and Lieutenant Overton and I have a job to do in terms
of enforcement and education. I think they actually go hand in hand. The fact that we
will have an ordinance in place starts the public interest in it. It gets the public's
attention. It brings to it a level of attention you would not get if it did not exist. The
DARE program goes through schools. DARE I bet will start to include talking about
Spice. As counselors and SROs and school administration and school boards are
learning about what to look for when kids show up to school intoxicated on alcohol, what
to look for when kids show up on marijuana, they are going to start to be educating on
Spice as well and that will filter down. So, I think the education efforts certainly have to
be there. I know from the chiefs perspective and mine that education we would see as
important, but having the ordinance in place brings your level of education higher, so
that there is more attention called to it.
de Weerd: Council Hoaglun, I think our kids have been educating us. Every single one
of them I have talked to knows it is not incense, it is not potpourri, it is a legal drug and
it's probably more educating the parents of what the heck Spice is and it's not
something they want their kid to have. But anyone who is buying it and anyone who is
using it they know exactly what it is. No education needed. This is not like a legal can
of dust off that they are inhaling, they are buying it specifically to smoke it.
Overton: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Lieutenant Overton.
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2010
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Overton: If I can address -- and the answer to your question, Councilman Hoaglun,
that's kind of down in my realm in what we do with anti-drug coalition. When we got the
drug free communities grant they charged us with several aspects of how we approach
different drug problems in our community. One of the biggest aspects is what they call
environmental change. So, if we see something that needs to be changed, we do
everything we can to see -- if it's through signage, if it's through city ordinance, if it's
through Board of Pharmacy change, we push and push and push in all avenues to get it
done. The second part of that is to go back and give the educational piece to the
parents, because as the Mayor just spoke very correctly, the kids know, the parents
don't. We have been teaching for three years -- or almost four years a class called Not
My Kid, in which every time we put this on -- and we put this in front of parents in this
city, in this community, they come up to us and go we had no idea this was going on.
The kids know. The parents don't. So, when you talk about education, it's very much a
focal point of what we do in our anti drug coalition, what we do with our funding through
our drug free communities grant in the community. Our major partner -- our number
one partner is our school district. We are constantly working with them and we are
putting on just this month probably a dozen to two dozen different presentations and
classes across the district on different aspects of anti drug this, anti drug that, it just
depends on where you're at what message you're getting. That goes out to the
teachers, the staff, the students, the parents. It's nonending. There is no end in sight
for the education. We can't afford to end it. But we are charged with that and we get
creative on how we put those messages out. So, besides the enforcement, we take a
huge role in that education in the community role as well.
Lavey: Madam Mayor, Council, I have one additional comment on that. Just yesterday
we met with the high school principals and that was our intent was to educate them on
that and really find out what they are experiencing in the schools and to inform them of
what our intent is, not only on the local level, but on the state level. So, that's part of the
educational process. One of the other things that we have done in the schools is we
have had our SROs and NCOs train the school staff as to what is Spice, what are the
problems, what are the concerns and, then, they can actually take that down to the
students as well. Also, I have been quite busy that -- I will speak about Spice to
anybody that's willing to listen and I just spoke with the Lion's last week and I'm
speaking with other groups this week to get that out there. Our other intent would be to
get it on our website. I really wish that the media that was here for the texting would
have stayed for this, because we need to get the word out. A perfect example is for
sometime now -- and I can't quote the actual months or years, the Drug Enforcement
Agency has had the -- had Spice on as a drug of concern and they were collecting data
and I can tell you that with the major push that we have experienced over the last
couple of months, just in Idaho alone, the DEA has finally took notes and said we are
going to do an emergency rule of our own. It's time. And so I think enough states are
getting together, enough local ordinances are getting together that said if this is not
being done on a state level or on a federal level, we are going to take care it on our
own. So, the education has started a long time ago and it continues today and that
would be our intent is -- it's really not to get anybody in trouble, but it's to educate them
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2010
Page 48 of 54
to make the right choice and, like the prosecutor says, sometimes that involves
prosecution as well.
Hoaglun: Well, thank you. I appreciate that answer. You know, they talk about when it
comes to war, the politicians make the strategy, but the generals worry about the
logistics, and as Council working on policy, it's what we are doing, but you as generals,
if the logistics -- if you don't have the tools to do the logistics, we won't be successful.
So, I wanted to be sure that what we are doing -- yes, we are doing the right thing, but
you guys are able to move forward and to attack this thing and the education
component is very critical and letting -- as the Mayor said, the kids are educating us
and, unfortunately, I have seen a few parents who mail it in and their kid tells them, hey,
you can go down to the store and buy it, it's legal. I can use it. And the parent -- oh,
okay, and walks away. Unfortunately, that's what we deal with in our society today, but
it sounds like you guys have a good plan that -- to move forward with and I appreciate
that.
Lavey: Madam Mayor, Councilman Hoaglun, education is the number one value in the
mission statement of the police department. Education, prevention and enforcement.
So, education comes first.
de Weerd: Can't tell you're a little passionate about this.
Bird: Madam Mayor.
de Weerd: It makes me proud. Mr. Bird.
Bird: I think we need to just get this going and get it out on the books as fast as we can.
As long as Terry and Bill believe that this ordinance is pretty bullet proof and will do the
job, we can't get on it soon enough, in my opinion. We got a lot of young kids that not
only need to get educated, they -- the people that are pedaling to it need to get dealt
with. So, I would say we bring it on and get it on the agenda as soon as we can. I can't
speak for the rest of the Council, but that would be my preference.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I guess the question I would have for all
of you is the process you will want to go through if you'd like to take some public input,
like you did tonight for texting, you have got two more meetings this month, the 12th and
the 26th. If you'd like to -- you don't have a very heavy workshop next week. If you'd
like to we could certainly put a press release out, like we did for the texting, you could
take some public comment, we could have a first reading. There is a couple of minor
things to change in the draft that's in front of you in your packet. If it's satisfactory to
you after you have heard public comment, you can move it forward to the 26th for
approval if you'd like to have -- I just don't want the Council and -- the Mayor and the
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2010
Page 49 of 54
Council be criticized because she didn't have an opportunity for people to know about it,
that you're passing something. I think we have all seen those a-mails of when did you
sneak this by and we have had something there for a year and we have had people not
pay attention. So, we have an opportunity, at least, that might be beneficial. Again, I'm
sure what the opposite side is on this and, obviously, there are businessmen that sell
this stuff, but they seem to have gotten word about it, but if you'd like us to do that we
could put it off for the 12th for first reading, if you want to do something different, we will
do whatever you want.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Mr. Nary, aren't we bringing the texting one back the 12th also?
Nary: The texting -- yes, we are. But that's just --
Bird: Why not have a public hearing on this the 12th, get it drafted, and, then, we can
bring it back at the next meeting and get it passed and get going. I think it's very, very
important to get this thing out and going. I could really -- I'm proud of what the
pharmacy board did, but I think they can only go so far. We need to go farther in the
city. I -- drugs -- you know, if I could put a ban on alcohol and cigarettes I would, but
can't. So, I just think that we need to get -- step forward and worry about City of
Meridian and do what we believe is right there, so -- and I think this is definitely a step
forward.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Bird, yeah, absolutely.
The only reason I raise it is on your workshops you don't normally like to have a public
hearing types of hearings, but you're not required to have public hearings on legislative
actions, but certainly certain types of ordinances warrant that. Right now it just shows
your economic development update, a clerk's office update discussion about some
process changes and, then, I think it's just a finalization of the strategic plan for Public
Works that they already presented, so there is no additional presentation. It may be
long. I know there is some new things that got added. There is a discussion on policy,
a couple of city policies that we wanted to have next week, but nothing real heavy. So,
If you have the desire to hear the public's input, that might work and, then, you wouldn't
lose track with us not having a meeting on the 19th.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I don't have a real burning desire to necessarily take public
input on this at this point in time, having heard what I have heard this evening.
de Weerd: It might be entertaining.
Rountree: It could very well be very entertaining. Unless there is some indication and
it's been indicated as -- tonight that there is no medical value to this, but if, in fact, there
might be, because of what's been said about medical marijuana and that sort of thing,
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2010
Page 50 of 54
the ordinance might make a provision for that if, in fact, it ever were to happen. I would
not want to preclude that, but I think we need something in place to get a handle on this.
If we can -- if we can meet the first of November deadline by waiting until the 19th when
we would normally have -- or, no, I guess it's the 26th, isn't it? So, we wouldn't make
that November date by waiting. So, I would say let's get on, unless something comes
up with what the governor signs, which he's indicated I heard on the news tonight it's
going to be next week sometime.
Lavey: October 15th.
Rountree: 15th. So, it will be after. But I assume we will have an indication what he's
going to sign between now and then and make sure there is consistency there. Let's
move forward and get it going and do it -- readings one, two, and three, unless
something comes up.
de Weerd: I'm sure our police officers would be more than thrilled to hand out fliers to
our retailers.
Lavey: We will hand out something.
Hoaglun: I agree, Madam Mayor, the sooner the better, if we can do it the 12th, and
just to provide an opportunity for people to comment. I don't know if anybody will. It
might be --
Derden: Well, if I can, Madam Mayor and Councilman Hoaglun. The retailers did hire
an attorney to speak for them on their behalf at the pharmacy board meeting. I would
assume they would do the same. If you advertise it as a public hearing they likely would
show up want to be heard, so just for you to consider that.
Bird: At 200 an hour I don't blame them.
Lavey: They may hire a different one.
Nary: So, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, if I'm hearing correctly, we will
prepare the ordinance for first, second, and third reading for the 12th. We will offer an
opportunity for input. If there is input that makes you want to change or amend you still
have the opportunity to move it to the 26th for another reading, if you desire, and that
way we would -- then, if it is approved on the 12th, it would be published the following
Monday and be effective on the 1st. If it's approved on the 26th, it would be published
the following Monday, it would be effective that date -- November 3rd, I think.
Rountree: That sounds good to me.
Bird: That sounds great. Madam Mayor, I'd mention one thing. You will get the
publicity out regarding this, so that anybody that does want to have their opinion voice
they can do it within the next week. I know we got -- I know we got one good one here,
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2010
Page 51 of 54
so let's make sure that people don't think we are trying to slide something through on
them.
de Weerd: And we would be more than happy to work with Frank on getting some
information together and getting it out to the other outlets and making sure the few
retailers in our city, in particular those that are out there waving signs, to promote their
incense, are notified. You might get a bargain basement deal here soon.
Lavey: Robert has a -- maybe a release to write in the morning.
de Weerd: Yes. If there is nothing further -- any further questions or comments from
staff?
Lavey: I'm just going to stay up here for the next one.
de Weerd: It's not four legged. It's not an animal, so --
Lavey: I wasn't going to mention that.
de Weerd: Okay. If there is nothing further, we will go ahead and move to Item 9-C
and, Terry, thank you for hanging out with us this evening
Derden: Certainly, Madam Mayor and Council.
Bird: Thank you.
C. Police Department: Budget Amendment for Department of
Justice (DOJ) Award Acceptance
de Weerd: Thank you, chief. Item 9-C.
Lavey: Madam Mayor, Council, I believe this is the last item of the evening. It's always
my pleasure to come in front of you and ask for money, but let me express to you what
-- what the real purpose is. Several months ago I came in front of you with permission
to seek an additional Byrne Grant. About a month ago I came in front of you and told
you that we were successful. We have accepted that grant. I need a budget
amendment that gives me the spending authority for (believe -- I don't have it in front of
me. It's 32,403 dollars. That would be fully one hundred percent reimbursable back to
the city. So, really, what you're doing is just giving me the authority to have finance
create a paper trail for us so we can purchase it and, then, get reimbursed and have a
way to audit the money. So, I am seeking that permission in front of you today.
de Weerd: Council, any questions?
Rountree: I have none. Madam Mayor?
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2010
Page 52 of 54
de Weerd: Well, how about congratulations?
Rountree: That's -- good job.
Bird: Good job.
Lavey: I do have one additional comment on the grant, but I will wait until Councilman
Rountree is done.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I move that we approve the budget amendment for Item 9-C
for the Department of Justice award.
Bird: Second.
Zaremba: Second.
de Weerd: I have a motion and several seconds. Any discussion?
Bird: None.
de Weerd: Madam Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
de Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Lavey: Madam Mayor, the last thing I had was -- I already forwarded to the Council on
our COPS grant. Just a quick update on that. As you recall the saga that we have
gone through on that where we originally were not -- we did not receive the grant and,
then, told us there was an error and that we were going to receive the grant. We have
successfully obtained that grant. The good thing about it is by them making the error
waiting a year, we actually were able to submit our new financial figures to them and so
the amount of the grant to the city is -- instead of 726,000 dollars, it's 774,000 dollars
over the three year period. So, for once with the federal government being slow it's
worked in our favor. So, we have a one hundred percent grant that's going to cover four
officer positions for three years. So, with that being said I'm done.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
Rountree: Excellent.
de Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Chief, when were you going to get the four going or have you already?
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2010
Page 53 of 54
Lavey: Well, I can tell you that the four people for the position that we are looking at are
going to be veteran officers that we already have in place. We are going to use four --
or, excuse me, we are going to use two detectives and two uniform patrol to put
together apro-active enforcement team, a crime suppression team. So, they will -- they
are already there. As far as hiring, I can tell you that I have two in the academy that
started yesterday. I can tell you I have two that start two -- lateral officers that start on
October 5th -- 18th. October 18th. And, then, we have an additional eight openings
where we have processed 21 lateral officers and we are currently processing 57 green
applicants and they are going to be on our campus within the next couple of weeks
interviewing and I hope to have those positions filled by the end of the year.
Bird: And this will bring you up to level?
Lavey: This will bring us up to a one hundred percent level in patrol -- or, excuse me, in
sworn officers. I don't really want to say that too much, because it's only happened one
time in the last eight years and it only lasted for about five weeks. So, if we are
successful and we get everybody on board and they successfully pass all their training,
that will give us 87 sworn officers for the City of Meridian.
Bird: Eighty-seven.
Lavey: There was 31 when I started.
de Weerd: Anything further?
Lavey: Well, with that being said, I believe Council has heard enough from the police
department and myself this evening and I'm ready to go home.
Bird: So are we.
Nary: Sounds like he was moving to adjourn.
de Weerd: Thank you. I thought that was a motion.
Lavey: I don't believe I can do that.
Rountree: I will follow that up with a motion.
Bird: Second.
de Weerd: All those in favor say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2010
Page 54 of 54
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:56 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
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