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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1995 06-06MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL F.ITCTZF,l TUESDAY, JUNE 6, 1995 - 7:30 P.M. CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS MINUTES OF PREVIOUS MEETING HELD MAY 16,1995: (APPROVED) TABLED MAY 16,1995: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A VARIANCE TO THE SETBACK REQUIREMENT BY DAVID AND DENISE HALL: (CITY ATTORNEY TO PREPARE FINDNIGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW) 2. TABLED MAY 16,1995: REQUEST FOR A VARIANCE FOR A TWO YEAR TIME EXTENSION ON RECORDING FINAL PLAT FOR GOLF VIEW ESTATES NO.4 & 5 BY GOLF VIEW ESTATES PARTNERSHIP: (CITY ATTORNEY TO PREPARE FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW) 6. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A VARIANCE TO THE SETBACK REQUIREMENT BY RICHARD HEATON: (CITY ATTORNEY TO PREPARE FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW) 7. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A VARIANCE TO TILE THE EIGHT MILE 111 •' vilLol Wilum • SIZ6,101 2 WIA, 8. REQUEST FOR WATER HOOK-UP BY TOM MYALL: (APPROVED) 9. CC&R'S FOR ELK RUN SUBDIVISION NO. 2: (APPROVED) 10. CC&R'S FOR LAYNE INDUSTRIAL PARK: (APPROVED) 11. REQUEST FOR EXTENSION OF TURTLE CREEK SUBDIVISION: (APPROVED ONE YEAR EXTENSION) 12. WATER/SEWER/TRASH DELINQUENCIES: (APPROVED) 14. DEPARTMENT REPORTS A. GARY SMITH, CITY ENGINEER 1. WELL NO. 16 - DECLARATION OF COVENANTS AND RESTRICTIONS AND GRANT OF EASEMENT: (APPROVED) 2. STOREY PARK - PICNIC SHELTER RESERVATION FEES: (CITY ATTORNEY TO RESEARCH) 3. BID OPENING RESULTS - SEWER LINE CLEANING & VIDEO: (MSCI FOR $14,564.30) 4. LETTER OF CONSENT FOR VACATION OF HEADWAY CT.: (APPROVED) MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL JUNE 6. 1995 The regular meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order by Mayor Grant P. Kingsford at 7:30 P.M.: MEMBERS PRESENT: Walt Morrow, Max Yerrington, Bob Corrie, Ron Tolsma: OTHERS PRESENT: Will Berg, Wayne Crookston, Gary Smith, Shari Stiles, David Hall, Richard Heaton, Wayne Forrey, Malcolm MacCoy, Robert Strasser, Mike Caven, Tom Myall, Ery Olen: MINUTES OF PREVIOUS MEETING HELD MAY 16,1995: Kingsford: Are there any corrections to those minutes? Yerrington: Mr. Mayor I move for their approval. Tolsma: Second Kingsford: Moved by Max, second by Ron to approve the minutes for May 16, 1995 all those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #1: TABLED MAY 16,1995: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A VARIANCE TO THE SETBACK REQUIREMENT BY DAVID AND DENISE HALL: Kingsford: Does Council, are they here this evening? Counselor, should I re -open the public hearing? Crookston: Yes Kingsford: At this time I will re -open the public hearing and invite Mr. Hall to speak first. David Hall, 2582 North Caribou, was sworn by the City Attorney. Hall: I am here because my house was built in violation of the city's setback requirement. I guess I am before you tonight to make sure I don't have to suffer any consequences down the road because of errors made by my builder and developer. Kingsford: Any questions for Mr. Hall? Morrow. I have a couple, was this house built, you bought the house it was already built? Hall: Yes Meridian City Council June 6, 1995 Page 2 Morrow: So this was not a build job, you didn't have anything to do with the build job? Hall: No Morrow: And the second question is how was this discovered how was this mistake discovered? Hall: Originally I could not locate the property pin on one of the corners and talked to the developer and the builder and they couldn't find it either. Finally when I got them together they admitted that the house was built based upon probably a line marker embedded in the sidewalk which was in error 3 feet away from the pin. The pin was about a foot deep and at that time it was in February or March two years ago. They couldn't find it and built the home based on the PL marker that was in error. Morrow: The PL mark on the sidewalk itself? Hall: Yes Morrow: Who is the builder and developer? Hall: The builder is Wildwood Homes, the developer was Properties West. Morrow: And have they helped you at all in terms of resolving this issue? Hall: They got the engineers to verify that the stakes were correct and that the developer made an error in marking the sidewalk and the builder made an error in relying on that mark instead of the pin. I originally requested for a property line adjustment and they talked me into applying for a variance of course which is cheaper. Apparently they are paying any fees associated with this request. Morrow: So you have no out of pocket expense to yourself and your wife? Hall: No Crookston: How close is the, in the adjacent property, as a home, is there a home on the next lot? Hall: Yes there is. Crookston: How close is that to your home? Meridian City Council June 6, 1995 Page 3 Hall: I would say their garage and my garage are 8 feet apart maybe a little more maybe 10 feet. The house beside me is in accordance to your setback requirement. Kingsford: And it was built on the basis of the actual pin then rather than the property line marker? Hall: Yes Kingsford: Any other questions for Mr. Hall? I certainly appreciate your bringing this to our attention. Is there anyone else from the public that would like to make comment on this issue? Seeing none I will close the public hearing, Council members? Corrie: Mr. Mayor, did Daunt have any comments. The last time we had this Will made a comment that Daunt didn't get his comments into us. Is there anything, there is nothing on this one. Morrow. Mr. Mayor I would move that we instruct the City Attorney to prepare findings of fact and conclusions of law for the variance request. Yerrington: Second Kingsford: Moved by Walt, second by Max to have the City Attorney prepare findings of fact and conclusions of law, all those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea Kingsford: What that means Mr. Hall is we will have those as required by law at our next meeting. If they are approved and the Council will make a decision based on those. ITEM #2: TABLED MAY 16,1995: REQUEST FOR A VARIANCE FOR A TWO YEAR TIME EXTENSION ON RECORDING FINAL PLAT FOR GOLF VIEW ESTATES NO. 4 & 5 BY GOLF VIEW ESTATES PARTNERSHIP: Kingsford: Councilmen, do you have further questions or comments about that? Morrow. I guess my only question was is can we do 2 years, historically we have done one year at a time, can we do two? Kingsford: The past the year is one issue, but I think our ordinance calls out one year does it not Counselor? Meridian City Council June 6, 1995 Page 4 Crookston: The one year requirement to complete the platting and recording is one year, I don't believe that we have a requirement as to how long an extension can be made. Kingsford: What we are being asked to do though is to make an extension longer than what our ordinance calls for initially, twice as long is that not correct? Crookston: Yes it is. Tolsma: (Inaudible) Kingsford: Also at issue is I think the Council needs to be considering is the issue on tiling of the ditch. I think there have been several occasions that Eight Mile Lateral has been variance from tiling. I think that they need to apply certainly for that. Corrie: Mr. Mayor I believe they should because in this case a variance would have to be also applied with Mr. Turnbull too on the other side. So we need to act on that too (inaudible). Kingsford: Any other comments? Is the Council prepared to take action? Tolsma: (Inaudible) Kingsford: Well I think you condition it upon that application. Morrow. Mr. Mayor I move that we grant Crookston: We need findings. Kingsford: It is a variance request. Morrow. I am sorry, I move that we grant the approval for the City Attorney to prepare the findings of fact and conclusions, you didn't let me finish. Kingsford: I could clearly see that is where you were headed. Corrie: Second Kingsford: Moved by Walt, second by Bob to have the City Attorney prepare findings of fact and conclusions of law on the request for an extension to the recording of Golf View Estates No. 4 and 5, all those in favor? Opposed? Meridian City Council June 6, 1995 Page 5 MOTION CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #3: ORDINANCE #705 - ANNEXATION - D.W. INC.: (Inaudible) Kingsford: What we require is any time we do a land use change which is either zoning or grant a variance or a conditional use. We have findings of fact and conclusions of law that warrant that. Those findings will be prepared for us at the next meeting and the Council will act on that basis. What you do need to do however is as was stipulated in the motion is to get the paperwork and start a variance to the tiling of that ditch. Is that clear? Ordinance #705 annexing D.W. Inc. property, AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF MERIDIAN ANNEXING AND ZONING CERTAIN REAL PROPERTY WHICH IS DESCRIBED AS A PART OF S 1/2 OF THE NE 1/4 OF THE SW 1/4 AND A PART OF THE NW 1/4 OF SW 1/4 OF SECTION 5, T.3N, R.1 E, BOISE MERIDIAN, ADA COUNTY, IDAHO; AND PROVIDING FOR AN EFFECTIVE DATE. Is there anyone from the public that would like to have Ordinance #705 read in its entirety? Seeing none I would entertain a motion on Ordinance #705. Tolsma: Mr. Mayor I move we approve Ordinance #705 with suspension of the rules. Yerrington: Second Kingsford: Moved by Ron, second by Max to approve Ordinance #705 with suspension of the rules, roll call vote. ROLL CALL VOTE: Morrow - Yea, Yerrington - Yea, Corrie - Yea, Tolsma - Yea MOTION CARRIED: All Yea Kingsford: AN AMENDED ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF MERIDIAN ANNEXING AND ZONING CERTAIN REAL PROPERTY WHICH IS DESCRIBED AS A PARCEL OF LAND LYING IN A PORTION OF THE E 1/2 OF THE SE 1/4 OF THE NW 1/4 AND THE W 1/2 OF THE SW 1/4 OF THE NE 1/4 OF SECTION 1, T.3N, R. 1W, BOISE MERIDIAN, ADA COUNTY, IDAHO; AND PROVIDING FOR AN EFFECTIVE DATE. Is there anyone from the public that would like to have Amended Ordinance #699 read in its entirety? Seeing none I would entertain a motion on Amended Ordinance on #699. Yerrington: Mr. Mayor, I would move that we approve of the amended ordinance #699 with Meridian City Council June 6, 1995 Page 6 the suspension of the rules. Tolsma: Second Kingsford: Moved by Max, second by Ron to amended ordinance #699 with suspension of the rules, roll call vote. ROLL CALL VOTE: Morrow - Yea, Yerrington - Yea, Corrie - Yea, Tolsma - Yea MOTION CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #5: FINAL PLAT: STRASSER FARMS SUBDIVISIONNO. 2 BY ROBERT Kingsford: Does the Council have any questions on that? Morrow: I had some questions on Bruce's comments in terms of, this plat is apparently outside the city limits, it is in the County. My question is and they are requesting a subdivision and they are requesting water is that correct. Bruce's comments indicate that a request for municipal services outside the City limits of the City of Meridian must be approved by the City Council. Assessment fees for sewer and water service would be double the current rate charged a single user within the City limits. Kingsford: Mr. Strasser is that correct? Are you asking for city utilities? Strasser: (Inaudible) Kingsford: You are aware and I think were made aware at that time were you not that being outside the City the hook up fees are double, the user fees are the same as everyone else but the hook up fees are double? Strasser: Yes, currently one of the lots has already been hooked up to the sewer. The other lots have been provided with city water and city sewer to the lots but nothing and we are not really going to be using anything different than we are currently using at this time. Kingsford: But you are aware that as those lots are built on when the permit fit, when the permit is picked up you will have to pay a double fee for those? Strasser: Yes Morrow. I guess my last question would be is it not possible for this ground to be annexed, Meridian City Council June 6, 1995 Page 7 it is not contiguous to the City? Strasser: Nothing contiguous at this time. Morrow. Okay and there is apparently a piece of property between Lansbury Subdivision and where you guys are. Strasser: There are 2 pieces. Morrow: That are not within the City. Thank you. Corrie: Mr. Mayor, I have some questions, this is a request for a rezone of the property to R4, right now you are just asking for 2 lots to be zoned R4. Strasser: Yes Corrie: Now you are going to later put 4 homes to the acre, how are you doing this? Strasser: At this time we are not going to make any changes to the land in any way shape or form. The purpose for the rezone and the split was to satisfy the bank so we can sell the property. They won't loan on an 8 acre piece so they will only loan on 5 acres or less. So we broke off one acre in order to be able to satisfy that for the buyer. He is going to make no changes in the existing land or anything else. We left it that way so that in the event somebody does want to make a change they have to come back through this action and through this course so that you people have a chance to review anything that is done at that time. Corrie: Okay, so the status quo is staying the same as it is, there is not going to be 28 homes in there without our approval down the line. This is a concern that some of the people out there had at this point. Strasser: Right nothing is going to change. Corrie: Thank you Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I have a question, how can the City of Meridian zone something without annexing it? Kingsford: It is a zoning change with Ada County. We have to approve that to Ada County development services. Meridian City Council June 6, 1995 Page 8 Corrie: Is that not a mis-nomen saying the final plat, they are really not platting, they are plaiting 2 lots. Kingsford: As I look at this now Mr. Strasser if it would be your desire you are contiguous. You have some property then that separates it that is not included in this is that right? Strasser: I didn't know that anything was in the City. Kingsford: Take a look at this if you would, which property are you talking about here right now, this piece. This is in the City, no that is right we provided them services. So is this your property as well? Strasser: (Inaudible) Kingsford: Okay, so you are not contiguous then. Again what you are being asked to do is to okay this through Ada County. Morrow. So the City's only interest if I understand you correctly at this point in time is should Mr. Strasser or the gentlemen buying the one piece in the corner to request sewer and water hook up which is available, they will pay double fees. Other than that our only assignment here tonight is to give our blessing to Ada County that this can occur and we don't have a problem with it. Strasser: If I might just for clarification on my part and JUB's item #4 about deleting the domestic water service (inaudible) on this if we delete that from the final plat than we can't get past the health services. We need that in order to be able to split it. So basically I am asking also that you give us your okay and that you would sign off should someone in the future build a home on either side that they could attach to the City sewer and water. Which would be the proper thing to do anyway. Kingsford: Gary, could you explain note 4 there? Smith: By State statute I believe it is the code requires when in the city limits or within a water sewer district that that note be attached to the plat. Basically what that notes says on the plat and I will read it to you,"all lots on this plat are eligible to receive domestic water service in the City of Meridian, Idaho, municipal water system. Further the City of Meridian, Idaho has agreed in writing to serve all lots within this plat with domestic water." The reason that note was written the way it was is because that approval is a special approval because they are outside the city limits, special approval by the City Council. I don't know that approving the plat as such approves it for connection to the city system because it is outside the city limits. I guess if the Council wants to approve that connection Meridian City Council June 6, 1995 Page 9 for service at this point that it could be left on the plat. Kingsford: That is your desire? Strasser: Yes, that way we can go on and go ahead with the next step and get it through health services. Without city sewer they are going to tell us that we can't do this. Kingsford: I think what you need to do then is actually to make application to the City to hook to sewer and water and I think we can act on this this at this point but I think you are going to have to ask for that approval. Strasser: The one piece already has been. Kingsford: I was thinking that I remembered that. Strasser: We asked for that and we got and it is hooked up and inspected and approved by the City. Smith: That was the sewer on the smaller lot is that correct? Strasser: Yes Kingsford: What he is saying is everything on that plat by that note being on there said it is hooked up. We would need to give approval to that to be on the plat. Strasser: There is a 4 inch and a 2 inch water service to the other lot, the larger lot. Smith: We provided the stubs just so that you didn't need to tear up the street to get that put in, but we did that to all the properties along Meridian Road whether they were in the City or in the County. Strasser: Whatever it is you need is fine with me, I will do whatever is required to make that happen. Kingsford: I think there is just an application that you fill out with the City Clerk requesting that. Strasser: Are there fees that need to be paid at this time? Kingsford: You pay those fees at the time of the building permit or actual connection. Meridian City Council June 6, 1995 Page 10 Smith: Just a request letter is all we have been asking for from the property owner. Crookston: Mr. Mayor, I would think that it would be appropriate to state on the plat that they will have to pay double connection fees so that a person looking at the plat will know. If the property is in fact not annexed by the city. Kingsford: Do you want to give your speech Gary on not putting too much stuff on the plat? Which I agree with that too. Smith: There isn't a lot of information on this plat I guess the note could be added. It is not going to encumber the plat to any great degree. It is an ordinance item but Wayne is right if somebody looks at the plat they may not understand that there is a double assessment fee. And on the sewer particularly that could have an impact. Kingsford: If we did that I think it would mitigate the request for hooking to the city sewer and water because that would be obvious on the plat. Let's do that and make it a requirement a note on the plat. Is there a motion to that effect? Morrow: I have a question, if we are going to make that a note on the plat do we also write in that note until such time the property is annexed? Do you put some sort of sunset clause on the double hook up fee issue? Because once it becomes part of the City and the double hook up fee goes away is that correct? Smith: That is correct. Kingsford: It just needs to be worded in such a fashion as long as it is outside the City of Meridian there be a double hook up fee. However you want to put that you send that along to Development services and request that on the plat. That is probably better yet, approve it conditioned upon that being on the plat. Morrow: So basically what we are doing is we are making a motion to recommend approval of the Strasser Farm Subdivision No. 2 to Ada County Development Services subject to the plat containing the phrase that double hook up fees will be required until such time the property becomes part of the City of Meridian or annexed to the City of Meridian. Kingsford: Well, in fact I can see an attorney dealing with that. If you leave it like they have put it then what they are going to say is they want a refund when it gets annexed. Morrow: Well, they have already paid the one, so it is just the second parcel that it is a question. Meridian City Council June 6, 1995 Page 11 Kingsford: This can't be as hard as we are making it. Smith: Mr. Mayor can we just make the note refer to the Ordinance so the people know that there is a requirement in the ordinance and we can refer to the specific section in the ordinance as far as sewer and water assessment fees are concerned. That deal with inside and/or outside the City limits. Kingsford: Good job Gary, is there a motion? Morrow: Mr. Mayor I would move that we recommend to Ada County Development Services the approval of the final plat of the Strasser Farms Subdivision No. 2 subject to a note on the plat siting the water and sewer ordinance. Tolsma: Second Kingsford: Moved by Walt, second by Ron to recommend to Ada County Development Services the final plat be approved for Strasser Farms Subdivision No. 2 subject to a note on the plat referring to Meridian sewer and water ordinance on double hook up, all those in favor? Opposed? ITEM #6: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A VARIANCE TO THE SETBACK REQUIREMENT BY RICHARD HEATON: Kingsford: At this time I will open the public hearing and invite the owner or his designee to speak first. Rich Heaton, 456 West Woodbury, was sworn by the City Attorney. Heaton: Okay, Councilmen I would like to introduce myself I am Richard Heaton and I have lived in Meridian my whole life, graduated from Meridian High School. For the last eight years I have worked for a home based dry wall company owned by Yogie McDonald. My proposal is to build a 14 by 16 storage shed in the back of my property, 5 foot off my back property line. Upon starting this, which I have already poured the pad as of about the middle of September of last year. I had contacted all the utilities and the utilities assured me the water and the gas all come into the front of the property. They said they didn't care, the cable T.V. and telephone all came to the back of the property and they said 5 foot is all we needed. So with that information and going by, I had approved by the subdivision they said they didn't meet with any disapproval. They said go ahead, I went ahead and poured it. The purpose of the shed is just strictly to store stuff, I am sure you Meridian City Council June 6, 1995 Page 12 guys have been in a lot of these smaller houses and you have seen the garages. They are fairly crowded I like to build part of my trucks inside there. Personal hardships that it would cause would be just strictly the financial and time I have into it so far. I would have to do something about that pad that is already in there right now. As far as all my neighbors I have contacted all of them and they have no problem with it, all my immediate neighbors within about 3 or 4 houses. As far as, I would like to mention the comments, you guys all have copies of the comments on that. I would like to address the one dealing with US West. It said that US West telephone facility is 6 foot south of the rear property line. As many times as I have had dig line out there which as near as I can tell it has been about 5 that line has never been located at 6 foot in it has always been 2 feet off my back property line the fence line. I would like to also mention the comment there that the Building Inspector made. The way I read it is it makes me look like I tried to get away with something. The only reason why he knew about it is because I went in on my own to file my own building permit and that is the only reason why anybody knew about it. I wasn't trying to get away with anything at all. As far as my neighbors, I had one of them show up, I am not sure if you guys would like to hear from him yet. Kingsford: Well, it is a public hearing if he would like to talk we will certainly hear from him. Heaton: that is pretty much all I had Kingsford: Any questions for Mr. Heaton? Hit me with the size of that building again would you Richard? Heaton: 14 by 16 and I have dropped the pitch to 2 - 4 - 12 to keep the height down requested by the subdivision. Corrie: Mr. Mayor, are there any covenants out there against having this type of building at all? Heaton: No sir, I have been meeting with Ramon Yorgason and he has letters from me from 9-19 -94 and they have never been met with any disapproval. Tolsma: You have seen Bruce Freckleton's comments, the Assistant City Engineer (inaudible)? Heaton: Yes sir. Tolsma: He said if we did grant this there wouldn't (inaudible). Heaton: I would be willing to, I am sure that US West has not been out there since they Meridian City Council June 6, 1995 Page 13 have been notified of this variance. I have yet to see them and my backyard is really tight right now as far as getting the gates (inaudible) sure they haven't been back there to mark it. I have had, our dirt is especially hard back there and I have had to call in augurs to do all my shrub stuff and the back hoe that dug that thing for me. I had it all marked up before so I am well aware that it is not 6 foot in. We would have found it when I dug it, (inaudible). Crookston: Mr. Heaton, are there any irrigation facilities? Heaton: Yes sir, there is pressurized irrigation running to the back of the property all along there but it is to the north of the fence. Which technically is not my property it is the subdivision's it is the common area. Crookston: What about Nampa Meridian, is there any irrigation fine? Heaton: Do you have a plot plan, 1 have one here for you. (Inaudible) Crookston: Your lot doesn't go into that easement at all? Heaton: (Inaudible) Crookston: I was just wondering whether or not Heaton: The irrigation district requested or whatever they were talking about which apparently I am not sure what they are talking about. They have plenty of room. All of theirs is on the other side (inaudible) I presume has easement to it. There should be about 25 feet that is before you get to the non -flat working ground. Then you have the rest of the bank, the creek bank, the south slough bank.. Corrie: I have one more question, you brought up about the remarks of the building department, he stated also in that you were aware that a permit was needed to do this before you poured this, did you know that? Heaton: Yes, I was well aware that there was a permit needed. Corrie: But you didn't get it? Heaton: No sir, it was one of those things that I had access to a back hoe one weekend, the guy came over and dug it, I had access to the concrete. I went ahead and poured I had access, I knew the very good friends of Jim Nelson the owner to where we just went ahead and did it real quick and then I went in the following weekend or week and told Daunt what had happened and he said you have problems and that is where we are at. Meridian City Council June 6, 1995 Page 14 Corrie: I understand that but you knew it before you did it. Heaton: True Corrie: And you went ahead and did it anyway. I was just following up, you brought it up I just wanted to see where it was from there. Heaton: Pretty much yes. Kingsford: What is kind of interesting for the Council's information on that size of a structure if you put it on a permanent foundation it requires a variance and all that stuff but you can have a portable shed, you could put that thing on skids and put it right on the property line. Heaton: What would be the problem with building it and it has elbows around the foundation on the bearing points, by rights wouldn't it be a portable shed if you unbolted it and it could be possible to lift off and move. Kingsford: By that definition so it everyone's house in here. With regard particularly to the Council's concerns of US West and the irrigation district and so on you have to be aware that if they need to get there you may have a building tom down. Of course you can never borrow money on those sorts of things and so on. But I think at least my observation is you are clearly out of their easement. Does the Council have anymore questions of Mr. Heaton? We will take other public comment if there are others. Anyone else from the public that would like to offer testimony on this issue? Don Ensberg, 447 West Woodbury, was sworn by the City Attorney. Ensberg: I have talked with Rich about this before. I have also talked with the surrounding neighbors and they have no comments, derogatory comments against it. It does not interfere with the site or scenery or anything of that nature. As far as I can see from our neighbors and myself we have no objection to it. Kingsford: Any questions for Don? Thank you sir, anyone else from the public? Seeing none I will close the public hearing. Morrow. Mr. Mayor I would move that we instruct the City Attorney to prepare findings of fact and conclusions of law for the variance requested by Richard Heaton. Corrie: Second Meridian City Council June 6, 1995 Page 15 Kingsford: Moved by Walt, second by Bob to have the City Attorney prepare findings of fact and conclusions of law for Richard Heaton, all those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea Kingsford: Again, Richard we will have those at the next meeting and we will take action then. ITEM #7: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A VARIANCE TO TILE THE EIGHT MILE LATERAL BY WILD SHAMROCK PARTNERSHIP: Kingsford: At this time I will open the public hearing on that issue and invite the owner or his designee to speak first. Mike Caven, 6874 Fairview Avenue, was sworn by the City Attorney. Caven: We are requesting a variance to tile the Eight Mile Lateral, this is following a conditional use permit that was before this Council. I don't know if it was your last hearing or the hearing before I believe and that was the City requested we apply for a variance. We have read the comments by the City, we have no problems with the comments. So if there are any questions? Kingsford: Does the Council have any questions of Mr. Caven? Morrow.. In their application it says the ditches are probably greater than a 48 inch diameter, did you confirm that is either greater or lesser? Caven: I have talked to the irrigation district and that is their note in here that this is probably 48 without them going out and doing any studies. The city comments from the City Engineer Bruce Freckleton I guess this lateral also goes through Parkside Creek Subdivision and the engineer that was on that project indicated it was 72 inch diameter would be required to tile the Eight Mile Lateral through that section. When I talked to the City they said a minimum of 48 and they are probably saying that is not correct it is probably higher. Kingsford: Their comment sheet says larger than 48 inch from the irrigation district. Tolsma: (Inaudible) Morrow: I understand Ron it is the same one but everybody keeps coming with these lateral things saying it is greater than 48 inches, at some point in time water is taken out Meridian City Council June 6, 1995 Page 16 of the laterals and they become less than 48 inches. My concern here is, is it 48 inches? It is 72 at Parkside Creek but how much water comes out before it gets to this part of property. Tolsma: This is before Parkside Creek. Morrow. So we know then Tolsma: This is just across the street from the speedway. Morrow: At this point, so there is no other water that goes into it or out of it? We are saying it is greater than 48 inches? Kingsford: Well, sometimes Ron it rains, so it could be more water going in it. But the note from Nampa Meridian is that it is larger than (inaudible) determined exactly. Your point is well taken, water is in and water is out. Any other questions for Mike? Anyone else from the public that would like to offer testimony on this issue? Seeing none I will close the public hearing. Corrie: Mr .Mayor, I move that we have the Attorney draw up the findings of fact and conclusions of law for the variance to tile the Eight Mile Lateral. Yerrington: Second Kingsford: Moved by Bob, second by Max to have the City Attorney prepare findings of fact and conclusions of law on the variance request for the Eight Mile Lateral by Wild Shamrock Partnership, all those in favor? Opposed? ITEM #8: REQUEST FOR A WATER HOOK UP BY TOM MYALL: Kingsford: Do you want to make a presentation or does the Council have questions? Morrow: You are aware of the necessary fees? Myall: Yes Morrow. That is the only issue I have. 1 have no objections. Kingsford: Is there a motion? Meridian City Council June 6, 1995 Page 17 Morrow. Mr. Mayor I would move that we approve the request by Mr. and Mrs. Tom Myall for the water hook up to City water at the location of 1470 North Locust Grove Road. Yerrington: Second Kingsford: Moved by Walt, second by Max to approve the request for a water hook up for Mr. and Mrs. Tom Myall at 1470 West Locust Grove Road, all those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea Smith: Mr. Mayor, I need a point of clarification, is this pre -approval is that based on the assessment rate today. If Mr. and Mrs. Myall don't connect until some future time I just need to be sure so on our assessment form. Kingsford: Our policy has always been Gary that it is whatever the rate is at the time that the connection is made. If this is down the road 2 years or 3 years or whatever our hook fee is at that time. But you are approved to hook at that basis. Smith: Thank you Kingsford: If you want to pay for it today however you can buy at today's price. Morrow. I think Mr. Mayor that is fairly standard within the industry within the valley. And if they do secure todays rate. Kingsford: That has always been our policy so you are clear on that then? ITEM #9: CC&R'S FOR ELK RUN SUBDIVISION NO. 2: Kingsford: Does the Council have any questions of the Attorney or Shari? Morrow. My question is what is the status of Elk Run No. 2? Kingsford: Can you update us Shari on Elk Run No. 2 or Will Berg? Berg: I can, this is just the last of the little glitches that was in that project. We have the current development agreement, we are approving the CC&R's. They have got the bonding, letter of credit for the tiling of the ditch and street lights, and pressurized irrigation. Morrow. What has become of, refresh my memory, the issues with respect to No. 1 where Meridian City Council June 6, 1995 Page 18 the conflict was they had been instructed to tile but had not tiled has that been resolved also? Berg: They will be tiling the whole thing, that will not be tiled until November. Morrow: After the current irrigation season? Berg: Correct, they have an agreement with Nampa Meridian to provide the the and they will install it, Nampa Meridian will install it. So this is the last requirement that I guess was overlooked. Corrie: Has both the Attorney and you read them? Shari, you haven't? Kingsford: The CC&R's, I am not sure that Shari always has anyway. Do you have any question about those Counselor, they meet with your approval? Crookston: They do now. Kingsford: Adjustments have been made. Crookston: Yes Corrie: Mr. Mayor, I move that we approve the CC&R's for Elk Run Subdivision No. 2. Tolsma: Second Kingsford: Moved by Bob, second by Ron to approve the CC&R's No. 2, all those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #10: CC&R'S FOR LAYNE INDUSTRIAL PARK: Kingsford: Have those also been reviewed Counselor? Crookston: Yes they have. Kingsford: And the appropriate changes have been made? Crookston: Did you receive word on that? Meridian City Council June 6, 1995 Page 19 Stiles: We did receive a new copy after Wayne and I reviewed it together and they incorporated all of the changes we (End of Tape) Kingsford: Is there a motion? Yerrington: Mr. Mayor I make the motion that we approve the CC&R's for Layne Industrial Park. Tolsma: Second Kingsford: Moved by Max, second by Ron to approve the CC&R's for Layne Industrial Park, all those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea Crookston: Mr. Mayor can we go back to item number 9, there was something that came through my office today that pertained to the CC&R's. I would like to if you change that motion subject to my approval. Yerrington: So moved Tolsma: Second Kingsford: Moved by Max, second by Ron to change the approve of the CC&R's on Elk Run Subdivision No. 2 to subject to Counselor's approval of the latest correspondence from them, all those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #11: REQUEST FOR EXTENSION OF TURTLE CREEK SUBDIVISION: Kingsford: Does the Council have a question on that request? Morrow: Mr. Mayor I move that we grant the request for extension of one year for the preliminary plat for Turtle Creek Subdivision. Tolsma: Second Kingsford: Moved by Walt, second by Ron to grant the extension of one year on the preliminary plat for Turtle Creek Subdivision, all those in favor? Opposed? Meridian City Council June 6, 1995 Page 20 MOTION CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #12: ERV OLEN -ADA PLANNING ASSOCIATION: DISCUSSION CONCERNING STUDY OF IMPACT AT EAGLE ROAD AND 1-84: Kingsford: Welcome to Meridian Mr. Olen. Olen: Thank you very much Mr. Mayor and members of the Council. I am here tonight to talk to you a bit about some work we are doing with Ada County Highway District to look at the transportation impacts of the proposed power center mall, Eagle Road and 1-84 in the southeast comer. We have determined that probably we need to look at what I call a cumulative impact of that and do kind of a sub -area analysis so that we can look at the so called spin off potential if that development were to go. Also recognize some developments that have occurred here that frankly aren't in our current demographic assumptions for that area most notably the St. Luke's complex under construction. So in order to do that one of Ada Planning Associations roles in this would be to do the demographic shifts that reflect both the proposed power center mall and also any related development that would be expected to be used. What that means is since we use what we call zero sum shifting when we add something somewhere in the county we like to take it from somewhere else. Because of that kind of a process we are here tonight to first let you know that we are working with the Highway District to do that and we would like some feedback and direction from each of you on how you interpret your Comprehensive Plan and maybe how we would work with your Planning and Zoning Commission and perhaps the staff in doing those shifts. Typically what we do is we have a demographic advisory committee that meets when we need to get together and look at major developments like this and shifts. They are composed of representatives of all the cities, I know Mr. Forrey represented the City of Meridian when we last did the update in 1993 and we would expect someone representing the City would participate. Right now our assumptions for our development in that area in terms of retail employment is very minimal frankly. A mall such as being proposed would be something in the order of 1500 employees if it is anything as the same ratio of the Boise Town Square mall, 1500 to 2000. So that is going to be a fairly significant shift and in order to do that we don't want to do it in a vacuum we really would like to get your feed back and thoughts and directions if you will. Then work with your staff to make sure we are interpreting the Comprehensive Plan. It is our sense right now that any shifts that we would have to do to accommodate that proposed mall and potential spin off would affect most of Ada County. Certainly western Boise as well as Meridian, probably Canyon County although typically we don't do that. So that is what I wanted to talk to you about is we do need to do that follow up study. We are calling it a cumulative impact, we are going to look at the sub -area rather than immediately around the site. We think we can do that work probably by the end of June this month and get that committee together in a couple of weeks. We are going to need your help, what I anticipate is once we have Meridian City Council June 6, 1995 Page 21 completed the analysis we would like to bring it back to you and share the assumptions we had to use and make sure you are comfortable with those before we complete the traffic part of the analysis. I would be happy to answer any questions. Kingsford: I guess Ery I commend you on the concerns and the study. I just wonder if we are not premature, I know that they are knocking at our door, but having been through the shopping center issues several times I hesitate to say it is good use of resources to study something that may or may not take place. That coupled with the fact that numerous studies have been done on Eagle Road twice for a mall at the site of St. Luke's and once for a mall at the site of Fairview and Eagle Road. I just wonder about spending our resources over studying issues that may or may not take place. If we can get a study accomplished in a month or less it seems to me it would be a lot more timely to do that Men it looks a little more eminent. Just a thought, Walt alerted me that this was coming up the other day and I couldn't help but to think about the number of studies we have done for malls on that particular strip. Morrows I guess my questions and comments would be is that I too am concerned about the premature study of something that is way out there and there are lots of hoops to go through before this even comes close to becoming a reality. I think the other issue there is for our purposes right now and thinking in particular of the mall that was at Fairview and Eagle Road or the proposed one for that site it seems to me that with a minor amount of updating those numbers would still be kind of applicable. I guess my question would be you are talking about shifts, shifts from where in Ada County? What does a shift mean, in my mind I am confused as to what are you shifting? Are you shifting employees from what to what? Typically what happens or what I see happening on the basis of my business is that in this type of a project most of those employees are secondary income type of jobs substantial portion of them are recent high school graduates or school kids who have never been an employee in the first place. So how do you shift them from what? I know that I personally (inaudible) with a lot of the governmental agencies in Ada County but a substantial portion of and with the press, the substantial portion of our growth in Ada County is self generated by the mere fact that kids are staying home and our brothers and sisters and parents are coming back home. Could you clarify for me what shift means? Olen: I would be happy to, it is not an exact science, there is a lot of judgement. What we do is we look at 20 years worth of growth, we rely a lot on Idaho Power's projection which have an excellent track record if you look back at what they projected and the actual growth. They are the best we have seen. We do for our planning purposes are always looking 20 years ahead and looking at the total population and employment within Ada County. When we have any major proposals come in that are significant and I think this one is basically we use a zero sum for all of Ada County but we have to identify areas where we assume that growth is going to go and shift that growth to the areas where at Meridian City Council June 6, 1995 Page 22 least when a proposal like this comes in. It is done based on the combined experience in judgement of that demographic advisory committee frankly. Our experience with the Boise Town Square mall for example we assumed that there were going to be some areas that were actually going to shift in retail employment because of the attraction of the mall and we took it from existing development. In reality when they opened up there were some areas that closed their doors because of increased competition. So we were able to be somewhat reasonable in howwe estimated it. It is a little bit of a political trade off and the only assumption we have is this zero sum. We don't want to plop in a 1500 employee center and just add that to the total. That is not the way we would normally do that. Since we monitor and update our projections every 4 or 5 years or whenever we feel it is necessary we think our 20 year growth estimate is certainly reasonable. One thing we don't do though and probably need to start looking at the influence on surrounding counties particularly Canyon County has on development. If you look at the traffic report they assume roughly 30% of the people who would go to this proposed mall would come from adjacent counties. I think when you start adding significant retail it does affect perhaps retail growth and surrounding counties as well. Walt, it is that kind of a process, it is just sitting down with folks who are fairly knowledgeable to monitor this on a regular basis and say if we plop 1500 retail employees at this location where do we take it from realistically. That is what the group does so they maintain that zero sum balance they don't actually add more than we started with they just shift things around. Kingsford: So you are saying it is logical that a certain number of people that go and fight the mess at Cole and Franklin that particularly (inaudible) might very well be shifted to Eagle Road if this goes? Olen: That is correct. Tolsma: Did you do a study on what the outlet mall did out by Gown Road out there (inaudible) Olen: No sir we did not, that decision was actually made without going through this kind of a process. We have since been working with the City and those folks a little bit on some of their expansion plans. In fact the employment out there we did take into account in our demographics. What we do is we split the employment into 2 categories, one is the office type or non -retail is actually what we call it. The (inaudible) characteristics of that is roughly 2 trips per individual. But retail employment it is about 7.7 times greater so the retail employment is really significant and particularly in a concentration like this proposal and we do. We have to find areas that in our collective judgement would not grow if this were to go in. I think the influence area would be in western Boise and parts of Meridian and probably realistically Canyon County, but we don't take that into account. Meridian City Council June 6, 1995 Page 23 Tolsma: Considering all the growth that has been out there at Five Mile and Overland (inaudible) going a mile down the road would that be a significant shift from that area to this area or would it pull (inaudible). Olen: I would speculate that it would probably more the potential retail growth in the west bench area of Boise mostly but it probably affects some other areas of Boise. What we have to do is find where we assume concentrations of retail employment over the next 10 or 20 years and shift some of that away from the areas we assumed in this location. Again, to be honest it would affect I think the potential for some other areas of Meridian as well if this were to go in. Corrie: Erv, was your reasoning to do this follow up study and cumulations here based upon your thoughts that it was going to happen quicker than it is? Since you said it takes about a month to do this, were you anticipating this more than has been then we done now? Olen: Actually I hadn't considered that this was close to being a done thing at all. What we had anticipated before a decision was made or gets to a point where seriously it is going to be looked at. I think this kind of information is going to be a real value. So when you folks in Planning and Zoning Commission are asked to make a decision it could be a big different. If and when it gets to a point where it is gaining some credibility or support then we would certainly advise that at some point if this thing goes forward that this analysis be done. Corrie: You also mention it wasn't done for the outlet factories, are they having ramifications by not doing it now? Olen: Well we do it after the fact, you have to plug that in once it is on the ground (inaudible). One other quick comment the Ada County Highway District as I understand it has agreed to pick up the consulting, transportation consultant to do the work. If they choose to do that then our role would be to provide them with the demographic shifts to do it. My understanding is they would pass the cost of that along to the developer or applicant and so they still may choose to go forward with it. The last time I talked to them they were proposing and if we are asked to do that we certainly want to work with you so that we are sharing what we are doing with you and you are well aware of that. I can go back and talk to them about maybe we don't need to look at it right now or wait until you get to a point where this thing does appear to be a little more solid and has local support. Corrie: Am I hearing you correctly this is not going to cost the City of Meridian anything? Olen: No it is not, your contribution to Ada Planning Association includes this kind of Meridian City Council June 6, 1995 Page 24 support and we kind of maintain that database and the demographics. So we provide that service whenever there is a need to do that. We did it for your comprehensive plan process for example, working with Mr. Forrey. Kingsford: Well 1 think clearly that corridor is going to be very heavily used, I would maintain constantly that is probably the best interchange, undeveloped interchange in Idaho. I think to just focus on that particular corner it would be really limiting what ought to be done on it. You have indicated it ought to be some of the other things but certainly some consideration ought to be given to a range of possibilities in that whole corridor and even as far south possibly at a minimum of Victory or Amity. Olen: Absolutely Kingsford: And again just to have the power mall drive it, I have seen too many malls that didn't get built. Olen: Well, it wouldn't bother me at all to go back to the Highway District and suggest that let's stop and wait and see how far this gets. At some point we would certainly recommend that if that is gaining support that kind of a study that you mentioned looking at a much a little bit larger area and the potential so called spin off before a final decision is made. It could have beneficial impacts frankly but it is a sign of things you need to be aware of and we are certainly willing to support you. Kingsford: I am not sure it is the type of thing that anybody looked at when they built the Town Square mall. Tolsma: Who did the study on the Town Square mall? Olen: It was a combination effort, we actually did look at some spin off potential in the initial studies on that I think back in the 80's I can't remember the date. APA was involved in that and we looked at similar malls around the country and came up with a 2 to 1 spin off in other words for every employee in the mall itself there would be another employee somewhere around the immediate area. The 2 to 1 proved to be on the low side in retrospect. Morrow. 1 think Ron and Grant 1 want to address that issue a little bit, I think in fairness to APA and ITD that I saw projections by someone within ITD concerning the very issues prior to that mall being approved by Boise city. I think APA to their credit did some forecasting their, I think what you have to do is lay that responsibility where it was Boise City opted not to pay any attention to either one of those studies. Consequently we have the mess that we have today. Meridian City Council June 6, 1995 Page 25 Kingsford: They have the mess. Morrow: We in Ada County, they in Boise City. So I support your concept here I too (inaudible) Grant's thoughts I think it is a little premature until we get a little further down the line. If I understood this proposal correctly on about 3/4 of the size of the existing town square mall that will take a ton of work and a tone of financing and lots of pre -commitments and gee those things usually take a couple of years based on the Town Square mall experience. Olen: Well, Mr. Mayor and Council members I will certainly take the message back that you just don't think it is necessary at this point given the status of it and at such time as it might get to a point where it is necessary to go to this step we would come back and solicit your assistance with the technical part of it that we would have to do. Corrie: It may be sooner than we think, I still think it is, but don't put it too far back. Kingsford: I think clearly if it gets to a particular stage we are going to want that information in the approval phase. But I just maintain that if it takes less than a month to do the study than we are jumping the gun. Morrow. One question, I would like to hear some comments from our staff people, they are obviously the people that have to take this and run with it, Jim or Gary or Shari your thoughts. Jim being Jim Johnson, Chief of our Planning and Zoning, Gary Smith the City Engineer and Shari. Johnson: Well, I have to concur that it is premature at this point. Frankly, I have a little difficulty grasping what information can come from this study that might change or sway the decision by Planning and Zoning as far as what our function would be in the project in the application process. I can understand the need for it, down the road the plan for those people involved in traffic studies and transportation, road development, improvement, widening and that sort of thing. That really doesn't fall in our role of operation. Smith: Mr. Mayor and Council members I guess from my standpoint it seems like the capacities of our water and sewer system are under siege right now and any time that we can have a head of when the actual use is going to be utilized is going to be that much better for us long term strategic planning. So if this mall goes in or some other mall goes in it appears that area is destined for this kind of use. So, I would encourage if this proposal is not an expense to the City of Meridian as Ery mentions that and I am not trying to say that it needs to be done right away but that we need to keep our finger on the pulse of what could happen out there so that we are not in trouble on sewer and water. I think this use survey for traffic purposes would also assist us in the sewer and water planning Meridian City Council June 6, 1995 Page 26 area. Morrow. Gary, a comment to that, could we not get some of that data from Boise City with respect to the sewer and water usages that the Town Square mall takes to give us some pre -advanced notice of what the requirements might be? Kingsford: I think you are talking different things though aren't you, they are multiple restaurants in the Town Square and the theater would use different amounts. But if we were to look at say uses of Costco, Homebase, Homeclub, those might be valid in the number of square feet and the minimum needs. Smith: If we have some kind of an idea of what kind of facilities will be out there we could get a number from a similar use. I would assume that a traffic transportation study would also have to identify those similar uses, is that correct Erv. It just seems like it takes a long time to get from the point of let's build a mall to we got a mall. The infrastructure that is needed to support that activity takes a long time to get it done. If it is going to impact our waste water plant to the extent that we need facilities that takes a long time unfortunately. Kingsford: But again we need to determine what those uses are because logically housing impacts the waste water treatment plant more than retail shops not restaurants but retail shops. Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, while I know how much APA enjoys doing another study it would have been nice, what is the spin off from, is the spin off from the fact that the interchange was built. Is the interchange from St. Luke's coming out there, is the power center a spin off from the fact there is going to be a hospital there. Obviously that interchange was going to be developed and be very desirable for a lot of different uses. But it is getting down to numbers on a traffic study would be very difficult in dealing with Ada County Highway District their numbers were conflicting with what the traffic study had shown prepared by Bell Walker because what they showed in their numbers, Costco alone they showed it having 27,000 trips per day. Well 27,000 trips was the number of people going down Franklin so they were assuming every person going down Franklin Road was turning into Costco. As far as their numbers being accurate for something like that maybe the Highway District needs something to interpret more accurately each use and what kind of trips are involved with that. Until they know, until we have any tenants it would be real difficult to tell, to pinpoint that if that is what you are trying to do. Kingsford: 27,000 of those were going to Chili's. I think that is a real valid point Shari, kind of what I was driving at not in a real clear manor. Do you want to say anything Chief? Gordon: (Inaudible) Meridian City Council June 6, 1995 Page 27 Kingsford: Thank you Ery we appreciate it. ITEM #13: WATER/SEWER/TRASH DELINQUENCIES: Kingsford: This is to inform you in writing if you choose to you have the right to a pre- determination hearing at 7:30 P.M. June 6, 1995 before the Mayor and City Council to appear in person and be judged on the facts and defend the claim made by the City that your sewer, water and trash bill is delinquent. You may retain Council, the service will be discontinued on June 14, 1995 unless payment is received in full. Is there anyone from the public that would like to contest their sewer, water or trash delinquency? Seeing none I would entertain a motion on the turn off list. Tolsma: So moved Yerrington: Second Kingsford: Moved by Ron, second by Max to approve the turn off list, all those in favor? Opposed? ITI Kingsford: They are hereby informed that they may appeal or have the decision of the City reviewed by the Fourth Judicial Court pursuant to Idaho Code. Even though they appeal their water will be shut off. The amount of the turn off list this month is $13,023.68. ITEM #14: APPROVE BILLS: Tolsma: Mr. Mayor I move we approve the bills. Yerrington: Second Kingsford: Moved by Ron, second by Max to approve the bills, all those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #15: DEPARTMENT REPORTS: Kingsford: Mr. Smith Smith: Thank you Mr. Mayor and Council members, I have a couple of items that I need Meridian City Council June 6, 1995 Page 28 to visit with you about this evening. The first one has to do with our Well No. 16, 1 am going to pass out this little sketch of the location of the well so you can get re -acquainted with it. Several meetings ago I brought before you a request from the developer who contributed this or.donated this well site to the City of Meridian a request for a signature of their declaration of covenants and restrictions and grant of easements. The donator is Gemtone Inc. who is the developer of Treasure Valley Business Center, Thomas T. Wright and E.L. Bews. The concern of the Council at that time was that the Gemtone Inc. had given us along with the well lot the property to the west a strip 60 feet wide by about 164 feet in length which contains the Settlers Ditch. There was a question at that time that concerned the piping of the Settlers Ditch which the Settlers Canal company was requesting. I have since that Council meeting when I brought this before you I have met with Tom Wright and Mr. Wright has advised me verbally and I wrote a letter to him as a follow up that they would the the ditch When and if they were required to tile the remainder of the ditch along their property. We would as a city owners of this well lot be responsible to tile approximately 100 feet of the ditch passing through our property. Tom Wright indicated that there was also a ditch along the east side of this property adjacent to Eagle Road that would need to be tiled also. And so they recognize the responsibility to do that, some liability he was concerned with as well. He was speaking to this responsibility based on some comments that I made about the requirements that I made of having this well in operation in this area. Obviously we have invested some money in the well at this point to drill it. We have underground power out there to the site. His development needs this well, the development of St. Luke's hospital needs this well. A future development of his which would be Treasure Valley Business Center phase 2 to the south needs this well. In short the water is needed out there and Tom recognizes that. He was willing to put forth those comments. So my request this evening is to have the City Council agree to sign off on these covenants to that I can get a pump in that well. The well, the pump house is all designed, the plans and specifications are at DEQ for their approval. They will not release and approval until I present them with a copy of the deed for their property. I can't get the deed for the property until these covenants are designed by the City. So that is where I am. Corrie: Is this Well No. 16, if I understand you correctly this one supplies St. Luke's for the water? Smith: Well, it will, it will be the closest well to their site. Right now there is a pipe extending to their site that has water in it without a whole lot of pressure. Corrie: This is the main one plus the industrial buildings that are being built. I am sure the Mayor is aware of the situation with St. Luke's and the building and water and fire codes. Kingsford: Well that is also true on Commercial Court. Meridian City Council June 6, 1995 Page 29 Corrie: Right this is the well that we are talking about. Smith: We are going to have to do something with pressure in this area too. It is not just the water supply but also pressure. This well site will either be a, I am talking very preliminarily to the design engineer about a variable frequency controlled motor on this pump that would actually operate off of pressure in the area rather than liquid level in the tank. I visited a little bit with Grant about the possibility of locating a tank at St. Luke's site and utilizing the well that Ed Bews has on his property to pump into that tank and then boost out of that tank into the system also. So we haven't decided absolutely on a method here but we do know that we have pressure problems out there and that we need to get them rectified as soon as possible. Kingsford: Entertain a motion to approve the covenants. Morrow. So moved Corrie: Second Kingsford: Moved by Walt, second by Bob to approve the declaration of covenants and restrictions for the grant of easement for Well No. 16, all those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea Smith: Thank you Mr. Mayor and Council, the next item that I have, I think I am in the right order concerns a reservation fee for Storey Park. I passed this out earlier but let me give you another copy in case you have misplaced the first one. I had two items on this memo but the Storey Park picnic shelter reservation fee was the one that I have on the agenda for this evening. The other one I might just consider that as some point of interest for you for your consideration. I think we, Will and I had Dennis count last year's reservations from the park and he logged about 400. We have on the weekends we have a part time employee that cleans up and dumps trash in the mornings Saturday and Sunday morning cleans out the restrooms and then if necessary he comes back Saturday and Sunday and clears trash again. His, he is a contract employee and his contract runs about $2000 or slightly more than that a year a summer basically. This would help pay his contract cost. Some users of the park are very conscientious and pick up after themselves, some are not which is always the case. Our cap on our budget may affect us this year, we are not sure exactly what is going to happen. This is a nominal fee, I think it is something that we should consider doing to help off set some of the costs. We get, I don't know what the percentage of folks from outside the area are but we do get companies from Boise and other areas besides Meridian coming in to use our park for picnics, particularly company picnics, a lot of family reunions and that sort of thing. I don't know that the reason we get Meridian City Council June 6, 1995 Page 30 them is because we don't have a fee, I believe Boise Parks is charging a fee for their reservations. Something like, depending on the number of tables that you have I believe but is up in the $30 to $35 1 think. So I guess I would be willing to try and answer any questions you have. Kingsford: Have you given any consideration Gary to and I guess that is a dumb question because people are not going to necessarily know how many people show up. ' It seems to me it ought to be a different amount if it is 10 people and if it is for example the Meridian High School senior class that forages out there with 400 kids. A whole lot different than having a family get together with 15 or 20. Smith: I haven't given any though to that. I didn't think, well $10 was going to be a breaker for anybody if it was even a small group. But typically Kingsford: When they get the shelter and they reserve they are usually a fairly good size. Smith: I was going to say, I can't recall how many tables are under the shelters but under the shelters and around the shelter there is probably room for I think at least 8 tables that would fit under the shelter. You can put 8 people on each one of those things so you are talking 50 to 60 people in a shelter without much problem at all. Yerrington: Can we get $20 just as easily as we get $10 Kingsford: Max is always thinking. Yerrington: Well if they have a shelter I don't see anything wrong with that Smith: I think my, and it is very possible Max that we could. My thought was that they are paying something and maybe that, I don't know what kind of impact that has on the user whether they figure they can do more with the shelter than they felt they could have if they weren't paying anything. Kingsford: And the way of litter and clean up. I guess my concern is Max is if you start, I wouldn't have a problem with $10 on a shelter regardless if it was 10 or 15 or 100. If you go up at some point then I think we need to make a designation and try to set categories. Morrow. I think I have some conceptual problems with this. I guess the first one would be do the other areas charge fees and if so how much are those fees? The second things is that what happens to the argument of the guy who says I pay property taxes for the right to use this and I pay substantial property taxes. The third concept is that we probably have more companies from here utilizing Boise City parks than we have Boise companies using Meridian City Council June 6, 1995 Page 31 our parks. The issue with the split fee system is one of police power thing. How the heck are we going to enforce or are we going to have to add more personnel to accomplish what seems to be an innocent enough goal at the very beginning. So all of the sudden it becomes a vicious cycle of more fees for more people because we have to add more people to make sure we are getting the right fees. So I think those are all questions that evolve. Part of the argument there and I guess part of my observation is that our resources and people are stretched to the max as it is are we adding more administrative cost and not having our people capable of doing the jobs satisfactorily that they have been assigned to already. So I need some assurances in terms of these administrative type things that they in a sense are going to work and not cost us more than we are going to get. Kingsford: I think in part to answer your question is if a person wants to call and reserve and see that they will have a particular spot at a particular time there is an administrative cost born by us to go out there. First off we have made a little deal to put those in, secondly the Parks Superintendent has to put that on his calendar and go out and deal with that. That takes a certain amount of time. I agree with you in the concept of just using the park. If there is spacing go out and use it. In terms of those shelters and if you are going to be a reservation we had this discussion 6 to 7 years ago whether or not to even have reservations. I guess that may be something discussed again. If we are going to have reservations I don't see anything wrong with paying a nominal sum to take care of Dennis or Rick's time in setting up the calendar and reserving it and to make sure that someone goes out there and actually physically cleans up and makes it presentable again that portion. I agree with you in terms of the general concept of parks. I don't know, one of two things needs to happen, you never have them be a base where is pays its own way. Where we are limited in budget now at 3% cap maybe it ought to come a little closer and not be born entirely by property tax payers that may or may not ever go to a city park. Morrow: The other question I would through out here is that assuming we adopt impact fees than I can see the argument by the new home buyer that says gee not only did I pay for the shelter and then I pay property taxes to maintain it but now you are asking me to support them. I am throwing out these arguments that can easily occur and you have to have valid answers for. So let's get the answers before we institute. Kingsford: I think the whole thing is the only way you have to pay a fee is if it is reserved for you. Tolsma: They are not paying for the shelters, the shelters are donated back to the City by business groups. Morrow: Well, you are paying an impact fee you are paying for the (inaudible) whatever Meridian City Council June 6, 1995 Page 32 it is that gets there and so on and so forth. Tolsma: (Inaudible) federal camp ground that does not have facilities it does not cost anything, but if you stay at one with facilities it (inaudible). Morrow. None of those folk who instituted that ever had to answer to the taxpayer on the basis that we do Ron. I understand what you are saying and I understand the art of hiding behind bureaucracy, but we don't have that here. We are accountable to the tax payer and so those are questions I think we need to answer. Tolsma: The Whole park is open except for the shelter. If you want the convenience it costs a little extra. (Inaudible) it was put there by service organizations and the City. Corrie: Mr. Mayor, last year I used that shelter, I reserved it and I would have been willing to pay $10. There were other people in the park outside of our group over next to us having a good time as well and pretty soon we all got together at the same time. I have no problem with a $10 fee for the shelter. I can relate to what Walt is saying but I don't think it is that big of a problem. I think we need to get something out of this to help the free some of that cost and at that point to get this thing on board I will move that we have a fee of $10 to reserve either of the 2 centers there in Story Park Tolsma: Second Kingsford: Point of discussion, when would you have that go into effect, next budget year? Corrie: We could have it for October 1 st of this year, of 1995. Kingsford: So logically then that would go into effect this season. Morrow Questions with respect to this, don't we have to amend the ordinance to put this into the ordinance or do we have to have a public hearing for this type of thing? What makes this different then when we adjust water and sewer fees and those types of things? (End of Tape) Crookston: I would really have to take a look at it but I believe that a fee of this nature would not require a public hearing. It might be advisable to have one if you think it should have one. I haven't looked at the ordinances that relate to the park so I don't know particularly whether or not it would require an ordinance to put the fee into effect. Kingsford: I think probably it would be appropriate to withdraw the motion and second and have the counselor report to us on what would need to be done at the next meeting, is that Meridian City Council June 6, 1995 Page 33 satisfactory or do you want to go into the vote? Corrie: I will withdraw, I have no problem of looking into it as far as we need to. I don't want to study it to death either. I think that would be fine. Smith: Is that item done then? Kingsford: Yes, I guess we will hear back from Wayne at the next meeting as to what it would be that we have to do and a vote will probably be taken. Smith: On the other item I have is on June 1st we opened bids for sewer cleaning and television inspection of some of our sewer lines in the City. I have the results of that and I will pass those out now. We had 3 plan holders and one plan holder was not licensed as a public works contractor in the State of Idaho, he was out of Utah so he did not submit a bid. The low bidder is MSCI from Meridian and their bid is $14,564.30. The other bidder from Gelco from Salem Oregon $29,945.80. MSCI is a new company starting up and they wanted to get started and they don't have a problem with their bid. The bid amounts were all checked, the extensions and the totals, the addition were all checked, everything checked alright. So, what we have for your information 24,835 feet of 8 inch pipe to clean and inspect, 22,050 feet of 10 inch pipe, 19,015 of 12 inch pipe all of these will be cleaned and a T.V. camera run through the pipe and pictures and videotapes taken and analyzed for repairs and or replacement of pipes. Morrow: Question here, I am apprehensive about that one bid is 50% of the other one? Smith: Correct. Morrow. And you have confirmed beyond a shadow that is okay? Smith: They have filled out their, there was a request for information qualification information from the contractor which was completely filled out and the consultants checked that. There doesn't' seem to be any problems. The people that are involved in it, at least one of the principles is a Boise City employee that has been involved in this work for years and years. Morrow: Are we requiring a performance bond? Smith: Yes sir. Morrow. For the specs? Meridian City Council June 6, 1995 Page 34 Smith: Yes Morrow: So you don't have any reservations about this? Smith: No Morrow: Fine with me. Kingsford: Entertain a motion to approve the apparent low bidder. Morrow. Mr. Mayor I will move that we approve MSCI as the apparent low bidder for the sewer cleaning and television inspection in the amount of $14,564.30, and we authorize the Mayor to sign and the City Clerk to attest. Yerrington: Second Kingsford: Moved by Walt, second by Max to approve the apparent low bidder MSCI in the amount of $14,564.30 for sewer cleaning and television work on sewer lines, authorize the Mayor and City Clerk to sign and attest, all those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea Smith: Thank you Mr. Mayor and Council members, the last item I have is in Central Valley Corporate Park, Nahas' development there is a plat that was filed, No. 2 and No. 3 that the combination of the 2 involves a short culdesac street culdesac. They are wanting to re -plat that area into a different lot configuration. Part of the re -plat would be the request through the Highway District to vacate that roadway. In order for the Highway District to do this I have been advised by our legal counsel that we need to have a consent from the City Council so that the Highway District can proceed with the vacation of the roadway which would then be followed by vacation of the plat as I understand it. Let me pass this out so you can see (inaudible). The plat of Central Valley Corporate Park continues to be an evolving process. The yellowed portion is Headway Court which is the roadway in consideration for vacation. Presently there is no construction on Headway Court other than a stub off of South Progress Way which is that north -south street paralleling East First. Sewer and water were stubbed into that little I think the (inaudible) radius is on the curb and gutter were built and that is as far as it goes. It has been excavated slightly, the roadway was excavated but there were no improvements made. Kingsford: Should our utilities then be taken back to the street and capped there Gary rather than have, is that something we can have a (inaudible) in water and that sort of thing? Meridian City Council June 6, 1995 Page 35 Smith: That is a good question Mr. Mayor, the concept that the developer has provided to me indicates that the water, it will be a roadway a common ingress egress roadway to some retail shops. Kingsford: So sewer and water vvill be used. Smith: Yes, it could be extended in. It would be in an easement rather than in a public right of way. Morrow: So this is kind of like a private drive. Smith: Correct Morrow: A condominium kind of drive where each shop may own its own parcel and a piece of the drive is that what we are getting at? Smith: Well, yes, they first approached Shari and I about lot line adjustments and there were a whole lot of lot line adjustments that they wanted to make. It was my attitude and I think Shari agrees with me that needs to be a re -plat just from the magnitude of the adjustments. That is what I have told them, the applicant's engineer and they came back and said we need to have your approval to vacate the roadway. Wayne advised me that we need your formal consent so that the Highway District could proceed with the vacation process. Crookston: The Highway District is going to go through the vacation process. Smith: They would have to because it is a dedicated roadway by platting processes. Crookston: The plat has been recorded. Smith: Correct Crookston: That would have to be done. Tolsma: This is right across the street from that Mercy Medical? Smith: Yes sir that is correct. Morrow: Mr. Mayor I would move that we instruct the City Clerk or Attorney to draft up a letter of consent for the vacation in of Headway Court. Meridian City Council June 6, 1995 Page 36 Yerrington: Second Kingsford: Moved by Walt, second by Max to, who do you want to have Wayne do you want to do it or Will, Will is cheaper? Crookston: Have at her Will. Kingsford: Write a letter to the (inaudible) reflecting these minutes that the Council is approving vacation of Headway Court, all those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea Kingsford: Anything else? Smith: Just a comment I guess you got a copy of the letter I received from our geotechnical engineer on the Tully Park test hole boring. Kingsford: Where does that leave us with that Gary? Smith: I am not sure, I guess I would be available or open to any suggestions you might have. The only other thing I can do at this point is to DEQ a call and see what that does do. Kingsford: I can't believe that those kinds of contaminations would take place the entire stretch of that ditch. Yet how else did it get there unless at some point in time somebody just dumped, when there was no water in there and it seeped. Smith: We did have quite a at Third Street and Fairview we had quite a concentration of hydrocarbons there. We also have a gas facility on the north side of Fairview that is immediately adjacent to the ditch. Kingsford: (Inaudible) historically a few places that could have contaminated years ago, the north curve used to have a Texaco station right in the middle of that for years. That was ancient, it could have very well done some contamination. I know that when they dug those tanks out the attitude was considerably different about ground contamination and I know they had leaked extensively. (Inaudible) Smith: With your blessings 1 will go ahead and contact DEQ and see what is up. Kingsford: I guess I would ask Gary for us to proceed with our project we can't, why couldn't you go ahead even though there is contamination that is not our responsibility to Meridian City Council June 6, 1995 Page 37 clean up is it? Smith: I don't know. Kingsford: I don't see us opening up a hornets nest when it is a ditch. That should be between the irrigation folks and DEQ to remedy. I don't see us having to pursue that or shouldn't have to. Smith: As I understand it the property our property line is the north side of the ditch, the ditch is actually on our property, Five Mile Creek is in an (inaudible). Kingsford: Bless you for saying that. Tolsma: Did they (inaudible) Smith: No, When they went out to bore the sub -surface there was no indication that there was any problem. And so they just followed a standard procedure of getting their well rig above where the abutments for the pedestrian bridge would be and drilled down on both sides of the bed of the creek. They took the samples and returned them to the office. The samples were placed in these little ziplock baggies like we carry sandwiches in and they sat in the baggies for 3 days I believe before they took them out to start processing them for the lab work and it was at that point that they noticed the odor. They took their little photoionization detector and came up with that number. So there wasn't any inclination at all that there was a problem there. If they had thought there was a problem they would have utilized a cleaner method of sampling before they actually steam cleaned all of their utensils and make sure everything is clean when they start the drilling process. I guess there is some kind of different recovery process for the soil samples too that they use. Morrow: Gary and I did discuss this so he is aware that I will make you aware of this. On a couple of my construction sites we've had to drill for soils testing and this has been within the downtown Boise area for designs, pour concrete mixes and those kinds of things and discovered the same types of things. The long and short of it was all it did was affirm that the stuff was there, it is all under the City of Boise and it wasn't traceable. So it was write up the report and turn it in and press on as usual. That is a historical thing that has happened that I have been personally involved in. In terms of Gary and my conversations with respect to this I don't know how the heck you would ever trace where that stuff is coming from. It could come from old farm tanks that may have been underground somewhere on the property or up stream or whatever. Kingsford: Ron and I determined, of course he was pre -petroleum and he said that there hadn't been any farm tanks out there. Of course (inaudible) Meridian City Council June 6, 1995 Page 38 Morrow: Residential fuel tanks I suppose, I don't know, it come from any place. Kingsford: Somebody just could have decided that would be a good place to dump it. Tolsma: (Inaudible) if they could pick anything up. Kingsford: 1 suspect that DEQ is going to do that anyway. Morrow: So I guess the answer to the question is where does that leave us now, do we do anything, do we send the letter to DEQ or what do we do? Kingsford: What is our consultant tell us? Smith: He is ignorant on the fact, he doesn't know what the process is as far as DEQ is concerned. Our pathway consultant is not sure, the geotech said that obviously it is up to us to notify DEQ. If we don't then he will because of his ethical moral code that he has found something that he needs to let the State know about. Kingsford: We had better send that in then. Corrie: I think Wait is probably (inaudible) Smith: But the net result of all of this maybe like Walt said on this particular project we are not really impacting the ground. We are not building a structure, it is there we don't know how it got to be there it may be everywhere. Kingsford: So we notify them and just proceed with our project. Smith: Unless they tell me something different, yes sir. Kingsford: Let's move along that direction then. Tolsma: This isn't going to be like (inaudible)? Smith: I certainly hope not. Corrie: Before Gary gets away I have one question, your letter on this Storey Park was dated April 6, was a business license ever presented to the Council? Smith: No sir, I just tossed that in your box and kind of food for thought and I didn't hear anything so I didn't pursue that. I did want to come back and re -visit about the reservation Meridian City Council June 6, 1995 Page 39 fee issue. Corrie: I will pursue that a little bit later. Smith: I think that would help us in some regards. Thank you Mr. Mayor and Council. Kingsford: Chief? Gordon: Nothing Kingsford: Jim Johnson: (Inaudible) Kingsford: Public hearings on those Jim? Johnson: (Inaudible) Kingsford: Shari? Stiles: Nothing Kingsford: Wayne? Crookston: The only thing I wanted to mention was the Magistrate's Court facility, the City Attorney for Garden City was going to bring this up before the Garden City Council meeting tonight and get back to me. I have indicated what the Council talked about at the strategic planning meeting I believe on the 30th of May. I have told him about that and he is going to get with me tomorrow to tell me what the Garden City Council's proposal or view of it is. Kingsford: Mr. Morrow? Morrow. A couple of things, for informational purposes, the latest completion dates for construction that is in our area. Meridian railroad crossing is still June 15th, begins to look like they are going to utilize all of that time to complete that project. Cherry lane is September 15th by contract date. This is not in our area but Franklin Road, Maple Grove to Five Mile is June 30th, so hopefully we will get some help there in terms of lightening some of the load headed east. Between July 1 st and August 15th we will see an overlay on Chateau Drive, both of those sections of Chateau Drive. So that is latest information with respect to construction in our area from ACRD. The second item would be I am Meridian City Council June 6, 1995 Page 40 assuming that there is no information on the personnel manual tonight so we are going to ship that stuff out to the Department Heads for their input. Kingsford: I think that Bob had one item, you gave that to Will didn't you Bob? Corrie: I gave it to Anna. Kingsford: It is my expectation then that will be given to the Department Heads tomorrow afternoon at the meeting. Morrow. And then they will have what period of time for their input before we see it again? Kingsford: Let's see if we can't culminate this thing on the first meeting in July does that seem reasonable? Morrow. So then we will have information back from them to us so that we can digest that information and make our final recommendations at the first meeting of July. Kingsford: Right Morrow: And then we would adopt the second meeting in July. Kingsford: Correct. I guess that is a good point that Will has brought up, that might be the most workable scenario is if those people work with their Commissioner and or the Mayor in case of City Hall people and work that through so that they have a little feeling and you have a little feeling for what they are about and see if that is far fetched or whatever from your view point. Then bring that back in still on that time line, the first meeting in July and adopt the second. Anything else Walt? Morrow No that is it. Kingsford: Max? Yerrington: Nothing sir. Kingsford: Bob? Corrie: Nothing Kingsford: Ronald? Meridian City Council June 6, 1995 Page 41 Tolsma: Nothing Kingsford: I would like to have a motion of approval if I could from the Council for our minutes as we discussed at the work session on the Whitzel property. Morrow: So moved Tolsma: Second Kingsford: Moved by Walt, second by Ron to approve of the gift of the Whitzel property corner of East 1 st and Idaho Street to the City of Meridian and the City to indemnify the Whitzel's on that property, all those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea Kingsford: Counselor based on that I talked with Julie Weston today and she had called me and I told I thought that was forthcoming this evening and their attorney out of Boise and his name escapes me right at the moment he will be contacting you. Mr. Berg? Berg: Nothing Kingsford: I would entertain the infamous motion. Corrie: So moved Yerrington: Second Kingsford: Moved by Bob, second by Max to adjourn, all those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:26 P.M. (TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) ATTEST: WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., -CITY CLERK