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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2003 11-25 PreMeridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 25, 2003 The Pre-Council Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:00 P.M. on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 by Council President Tammy de Weerd. Members Present: Tammy de Weerd, Keith Bird, Bill Nary, Members Absent: Mayor Robert Corrie, Cherie McCandless. Others Present: Gary Smith; Stacy Kilchenmann; Bill Musser; John Overton; Will Berg; Item 1. Roll-call Attendance: X Tammy de Weerd X Bill Nary O Cherie McCandless X Keith Bird O Mayor Robert Corrie Item 2. Adoption of the Agenda: De Weerd: Thank you. I would like to welcome you all here. We have the Agenda ahead of us. Any changes to the Agenda? Bird: Madam President. De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: I move we adopt the Agenda as published. Nary: Second. De Weerd: Okay. It’s been moved and seconded to adopt the Agenda as published. All those in favor, say aye. All ayes. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT Item 3. Discussion of Finance Report: De Weerd: Well, and there is our Finance Director. Kilchenmann: Fancy that. One thing that I wanted to call your attention to the surplus inventory sheet that was in your packet. The procedure that Will and I are going to follow from now on is that in my report I will give that to you and provide an explanation and then Will will put it on the consent agenda for the following meeting just for you to approve that it is surplus property. This month we have several pieces of equipment, radios and so forth from the Fire Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 25, 2003 Page 2 of 26 Department that they would like to donate to the Lowman, Idaho City area - - the volunteer firemen. So, I don’t know if there are any particular questions on those items. De Weerd: I guess I just have one. They were going to donate some equipment, Stacy, to Yellow Pine. Did they ever do that? Kilchenmann: That I can’t tell you off the top of my head. De Weerd: It would have been like three or four months ago. Bird: I don’t think (inaudible). De Weerd: If you could check on that. Nary: Madam President. De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: Stacy, on the cost that’s listed on this. Is that replacement costs? Kilchenmann: That would have been purchase costs. Nary: Okay, so it’s not present value, obviously? Because some of this stuff is pretty old. Kilchenmann: No. Nary: So, are these items been replaced or in the process of being replaced. Is that why -- I mean, obviously, they don’t need it. Kilchenmann: I think they probably have been replaced. Nary: Okay. Thank you. De Weerd: They have been. Kilchenmann: Okay, now on the financial statements, since it’s our first month there is not a lot that’s happened so far. Just a couple of things to note. On the utilities side, the assessment revenue for both water and sewer is extremely high. Much higher than budgeted. So, growth continues to go on rapidly. The only expense item that I really noted was the Fire Department overtime. It looks like now with the third station going, we all have to keep an eye on that and see how that tracks along with budget. So, other than that I don’t really have anything on the financial statements. Investment rates are not going up very fast, but we will be transferring a lot of money back to our investment adviser Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 25, 2003 Page 3 of 26 because I think they can go out on the market and get some better bond rates and so forth. So, we actually have already done that, but it’s not reflected on these statements. Now, I have one final thing that I actually want everyone’s input or opinion on. It has to do with the third party billing fee, which we have approved that and so forth. Now we are trying to decide what the fee should be. And so, Rick done a fee and he came up with $35.00 and I went through and I did a fee and I put this in front of you on your podium. I came up with a cost of $22.12; by precisely costing how much time I thought it would take. I allowed the Water Department a 40 minutes taking the reading initially and then taking another read when the renter moved out. We have started to charge the $30 turn on fee that is in the fee that you approved when we changed the rates for the water and sewer so that wasn’t getting charged. So, we started charging that. My view is that if they had to go out for some reason and actually turn the water off because the home owner was - - didn’t want it on - - they got another renter in. They could pay that fee separately, but that in this fee that we are charging just to do the billing agreement that $35 would be too high. I think most of the landlords felt like they were going to pass that cost on to the renter. So, you know, I got input from Mr. Nichols, but he is the only one I have gotten input back from. So I want to see what everyone on the Council thought. De Weerd: What was his input? Kilchenmann: He had a lot of it. It is attached. De Weerd: I guess I was asking for an attorney’s response. Kilchenmann: Yes, I’ll let him respond. De Weerd: I am sorry. I am sitting in a room full of attorneys. Kilchenmann: That is very scary. Nichols: Madam President, I am among friends. The issues that I raised with regard to the charge were basically to make sure that all of these steps are going to have to be done every time. If they are all not going to have to be done every time then is it possible to break some of those out as separate charges, but does that then create some additional internal problems with regard to billing. For example, built into this charge is an anticipated 50 percent delinquency rate out of these accounts. Because you are factoring in a fee for sending out duplicate billings, delinquency notices, which is okay if that is about what it runs. Stacy emailed me back and said that is about where it’s been. About 50 percent on tenants get behind in the water and this necessitates having to send out this duplicate bill and so forth. So that is borne out. The only legal requirement is that you have to only charge what it takes to do the service and that is required under the state statute. So as long as these figures are supportable then Stacy Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 25, 2003 Page 4 of 26 can bring it forward for adoption as a fee to be paid for these third party billing arrangements. Kilchenmann: We probably don’t want to charge $22.12, but we could charge $22, $20. I hear $25. De Weerd: Well, I think Council, why don’t we just try and talk to Stacy individually or, unless you have anything pressing right now, this wasn’t on our agenda what kind of feedback and that is feedback that you have been getting and those that would be impacted. Kilchenmann: Well, their feedback was that they are going to pass the charge on to their tenants. De Weerd: So, they didn’t really care. Kilchenmann: So, they didn’t really care. Nary: Madam President. De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: I guess that the only real feedback that I have is that I think it’s basically between both the numbers that Stacy came up with and that of Gary. Like Mr. Nichols said we would want to make sure we are recouping the costs of the service. I don’t really have a preference between $20, $22 and $25 it really doesn’t make any difference to me. I think whatever, to make sure we are covering the costs between what numbers you have and what Gary has would make the most sense then to bring forward. Kilchenmann: Okay then I can get it on the agenda for a hearing. De Weerd: Well, yes, it is just whatever you can support. Nary: Madam President. De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: Before we move off of Stacy’s report on those surplus items it would probably make some sense for Mr. Nichols to maybe have a resolution in a week or something confirming the Council’s approval to go ahead and surplus those items and donate them or give them away or whatever we are doing with them. That way there is some record of the action we took. Nichols: Madam President, members of the Council. If you could email me the items then it would be two weeks because of the short week this week. Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 25, 2003 Page 5 of 26 Nary: They can go ahead and do it. I mean in the interim. It may be just ratifying that we obviously didn’t have any objection to it. That’s fine to go ahead and do it, but I just think we need some record to show that we did make that decision. Kilchenmann: You are right we need to do that. Does anyone have any other questions? De Weerd: No. Okay. Thanks Stacy. Roger. Cockerille: Thank you Madam, Mayor Elect, Members of the Council. You know the reason that I am hear tonight. You know, before I start off I wanted to tell you I get a kick out of seeing how you guys do things a little bit differently than we do things. I want to know where you buy the please offer concise remarks sign. Because, we could use that over at Boise, definitely. I will try to keep it concise. De Weerd: We could too. Bird: The signs they don’t work. De Weerd: Needs to be in front of us I think. Item 4. Presentation by Boise City Attorney of Past Services and Future Services: Presented Cockerille: I want to give you the update that we contracted to give you and I want you to also know that I’m aware that you guys might feel like there has been a little bit of (inaudible) switch. Susie comes in, sells the program to you, talks to you about the program and then midway through I become the city attorney and all of sudden there is this new guy in here with a new contract giving you on update and the one thing that I can talk to you about is today I will give you a brief introduction. We will show you the nuts and bolts of what you guys are getting from us and I brought staff along who can best tell you what we are providing in terms of nuts and bolts. Then I will close with some comments about what we can forecast for the future. With that said as well I invite you to certainly go see the customer testimonials. Ask the police officers how we are doing. Ask Bill Musser how we are doing and don’t do it while we are around. Get the candid advice or the candid input from those folks because I think the customer testimonials are the best testimonials for service. De Weerd: I am sorry, but you will have to stay by the microphone. Cockerille: You know, I believe my voice is so loud and booming, I’ve always - - De Weerd: Well, I was kind of thinking that, but - - Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 25, 2003 Page 6 of 26 Cockerille: I’ve always trusted it to get to the mic. Under the contract, what you will see here is we are able to, in terms of FTE positions, put two full time attorneys on it. One part-time legal secretary. One part time victim witness coordinator and one part time juvenile accountability coordinator. But that is misleading because -- next slide please -- because what you are really going to see is the way that we run our shop over there you are dipping into the personnel well that we offer to the City of Boise. In addition to the positions that I have mentioned, there are an additional 23 attorneys, 2 paralegals and 9 legal secretaries in my office. When you come to the nuts and bolts of covering thousands of cases and we do cover over a thousand cases for you guys in six different courtrooms every day of the week, we can’t do that with just two FTE’s, it’s impossible because you are always asking leave of the judge. Judge, give me a break, I have got to be in courtroom six, give me a break I’ve got to be in courtroom five. We have got attorneys in those courtrooms anyways because a docket for any given courtroom will have 39 City of Boise cases on it, two Meridian cases on it, a Garden City and maybe three Ada County’s. We are the six hundred pound Gorilla in that courthouse and we are there already and we have got those attorneys available for you. I will point out to you to. We have spent a lot of time in our office developing career tracks such that we don’t get cherry picked by the private sector. In other words we like to tell our attorneys that this is the place where you can make a career and what you get from that is experienced prosecutors. Talk to the officers about that. Talk to them about the fact that you are getting prosecutors who have tried not just one, two, three jury trials, but fifteen or twenty jury trials. My office alone tried 40 criminal jury trials last year. Next slide please. I told you that I don’t like to come in here and grandstand, in other words there are folks that administered this contract everyday and I brought them in here. In terms of the prosecution side, we have a lot of prosecutors in the courtroom for you. We have to symbolically represent those, but we provide Meridian Police with legal services, legal opinions about search warrants, legal opinions about the propriety of police conduct, legal opinions about case updates. I brought, tonight, Allison Tate who actually has a small office in the Meridian Police Station and she is going to walk you through what she does out in the field for you. In terms of victim witness services I brought Tina Perkins and she is going to run you through the ability for us to provide experienced victim witness counselors on the cases that matter most: the domestic batteries. That is something that you guys are getting that is really new. Not just new and improved, but new altogether. Finally, juvenile accountability program. We have established that for you as well. You know, this is a touchy, feely, feel good type of program in the sense that we are trying to get the youth, who might otherwise be processed by a system that is rather cold and uncaring and we get them and their parents and we counsel with them and we show them a different face of government in the juvenile accountability program and that’s cutting edge. I have brought Matthew Hanes here to describe that. So, without further ado, I would like to turn the floor over to Allison Tate and she will explain to you the Meridian Police legal services. Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 25, 2003 Page 7 of 26 De Weerd: Thank you. Tate: Thank you, Roger. Madame President, members of the Council. Let’s start with prosecution. This is probably the major service that we provide for you and the one that -- this is the prosecution contract. We have come up with some statistics for you. We received in our office this last year 3,204 reports and citations. That includes the cases and the files that came to us when we took over the contract. That does not include over 6,000 citations that were filed by the officers and what that means is that infraction citations that go directly to court are not included in those numbers. We don’t count them. Currently, we have 1,386 cases pending. In the last year we closed 1,894 cases. When a police officer writes a report and sends it over to the prosecutor’s office for review the first thing that happens is the screening (inaudible) that we talk about here. In our office, basically one attorney conducts the screening of the cases and that is generally Randy Grow. The reason that we do that is that it provides consistent review. It’s the same person making those decisions. Perhaps more importantly to the police it provides one person for them to contact for questions. When Randy makes a screening decision on a report he sends an email to the officer or officers that are involved and explains to them this is the charge that I am filing or this is the charge I am not filing and this is why. When they have questions, they can simply ask Randy or email back to him that I don’t understand and can you explain this to me? This also allows them to tell members of the public that were involved in that particular report that they have a person that they can talk to about the charge. Why was this charge filed? Why was this case not filed? So, that’s been, I think, very helpful for the police. The officers have told me that they really like having that one person they can call and talk to about that. Screenings are conducted all day, everyday at our office. It is a permanent function. Secondly, of course, as Roger stated we attend all of the court hearings. We attend arraignments. This is something that was new because when there is only a couple of prosecutors running around to various courtrooms you can’t get to arraignments. We have prosecutors in every courtroom and we attend arraignments. Arraignments are very important especially in domestic violence cases because that’s the time at which you get a no contact order. We also, of course, attend pretrial conferences, jury trials, court trials and sentencings. The next item is a new court. This is new in the Ada County Court system. Family Violence Court. That is an additional judge and additional courtroom that has to be covered. It’s a pilot program. It’s been very successful so far and the point of it is to really more effectively and efficiently handle these very difficult and very important cases. Finally, after there are convictions on cases we handle the probation violations and contempts. Of course, before we can prosecute these cases, we have to get them from the police. These are some statistics about that. In 2002, Meridian had 45 sworn officers. An additional four were hired during the 2003 so there are now 49 sworn. In the next year, I believe that they will be hiring 7 new officers and that should bring the number up again. The citations start to increase of course as Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 25, 2003 Page 8 of 26 officers start to increase. Between July and October of 2002 the Meridian officers issued 2,287 citations and in between July and October 2003 they 2,610. We expect those numbers to continue increasing. Now, the Traffic Unit is fully staffed and that has not been the case. I expect the number of citations to go up rather quickly because of that. The legal services that we provide to the Police Department apart from prosecution include an onsite staff person. We review -- provide legal review of the public record requests, property dispositions. We do training and we do code reviewing and draft some ordinances, as you know this last year. Starting with the onsite staff person, that’s me. I have an office as you have been told in the Meridian Police Department, which is in patrol. I am there on Tuesdays and Fridays, which allows the officers to kind of drop in and ask questions. They don’t have to call someone. They don’t have to track an attorney down. If they have something that’s on their mind they can come in and sit on the chair in my office and talk to me about it or that something has happened out there that day. They take advantage of that. That’s great. There is a good dialogue there. We also have someone on call for the police 24 hours a day. Often it is myself. It can be a couple of other attorneys in the office. We have a police pager that is carried all the time. An example of the type of question they would ask us would be if there has been a serious accident that’s a fatal accident or a serious injury. They may call and talk to us about doing a blood draw of the driver to see if they are under the influence of alcohol or drugs. They may want to talk to us about getting consent of that person, what they need for consent or forcing a blood draw. That is a very appropriate thing for them to be calling for legal advice and we have had three or four calls on that topic that I know of from Meridian officers in the last year that I have taken. The rest of things, there are separate slides of and I will talk to you about those. Public Records Request that is something I do every day when I am out in Meridian. This is something that is also new. Last fall we did a training for the records staff, Marsha Beeman and her staff. We provided them with a manual on handling public records request. They have just done an excellent job of facilitating the process and it is going very smoothly. Because I am out there Tuesdays and Fridays we are able to get those out in a timely manner. When someone comes in and they ask for something. Perhaps, they want a police report and a tape. They fill out a form that’s date stamped and someone in the records staff gathers the information and makes a preliminary determination about what we are going to give them. They leave the packet and all the information for me to review when I am there. I review it, check off yes we are going to give them this or no I don’t think we should give them that. We call the person or fax it to them and it gets there immediately. It’s going very smoothly. Property Dispositions this is the process of getting either evidence or items of property that are held by the Police Department back to their true owners. There is legal review of all of that process. We want to make sure that we don’t do it prematurely, so that we have evidence that we need for trials, but we want to get it back to it’s true owners as soon as possible. Most importantly we need to comply with the Federal Firearm’s Statutes. So now when someone comes in to request the return of a firearm they fill out an affidavit, a background check is run on them and there is Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 25, 2003 Page 9 of 26 legal review of that before we return a gun. Some other things we do are restitution. We provide information, actually, to the City to make sure that money that is paid by defendants to the court is given to the victim efficiently, quickly and sent to the right place. Sometimes, we have to track people down in order to do that. Training this is my favorite part of the job. First of all we do provide a monthly police bulletin and you guys have been given an example of this. This is our new format and this just went out last week. This police bulletin summarizes the cases that the appellate courts have released in the last month. The ones that impact law enforcement. This went out last Tuesday morning and I was kind of making my rounds around the Police Department on Tuesday, I saw six or seven people reading it. Because this is something that’s new to the Meridian Police they take advantage of it. They read it and come and ask me questions about it. How the cases apply to them. This is a very good tool for them. From time to time, if there is a hot topic, we also do a one-page bulletin. If I see something that is of interest to specific officers that they have asked me about or something they need to know about right away, I will do a one page bulletin and then they go through that at briefings. The officers find out about it immediately. We also do an annual training. Last December we did a basic search and seizure training for the officers, provided them with some manuals and I am currently planning the next training. This year is going to be a game-show format, so we are going to try and keep them awake, which is difficult to do with search and seizure. But the questions that I am drafting are going to be based on cases from the last year and training issues that Command Staff has come up with or that our attorneys have come up with. We have also provided training on internal affairs, at least MASOFF provided that training. We did the training on the public records request for records staff and we provided some training when the Police Department adopted their new policy manual. As some of you know, some ordinances came from the Police Department this year and we provided or I provided the initial drafting of those. We did a school zone ordinance, a center turn-lane ordinance, the Park’s ordinance was actually initially drafted by me. I think there was also an ordinance about the Chief’s powers. Those came from the police and I did the initial drafting to facilitate the process so that when the city attorney got it at least the initial drafting had been done and then he could ask questions and work on it a little bit more and I think, hopefully, made the process more efficient. Internal Affairs this is another service area. This is provided by Elisa Masoff. She is the team leader of the Public Safety Team of which I am a member. She has a great expertise in this area. She provides internal affairs advice to the Boise Police Department as well. In that regard, she reviewed the entire new police - - the new policy manual that Meridian adopted, which took a great deal of time. She attends all Command Staff meetings and she generally advises the Police Department on disciplinary issues and the issues within the department. She is also on call to Command Staff 24 hours a day if they have a question about something that they need to ask her. With that, unless there are any questions, I am going to turn this over to Tina Perkins. De Weerd: No, thank you. Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 25, 2003 Page 10 of 26 Perkins: Madam Mayor Members of Council, my name is Tina Perkins. I am the Unit Manager for the Victim Witness Unit with the Boise Police Department. Much like Roger said, it would be nearly impossible to provide these services with just one part-time position and so you benefit from the six and one half victim witness coordinators to support staff individuals that we have with the Boise Police Department. We make contact with all the victims, whether there is a case that’s going to be proceeding or not after the incident. Many of these contacts are made upon request of the officers. I got a call today from Sgt. Colleoni asking me to contact a victim who was a victim earlier today. So, these services are provided, again, whether or not the case proceeds. We provide information to the victims such as safety planning. WE make sure that they are in a safe environment and assess their needs for that. We give them information on protection orders and we inform them of what their victim’s rights are and send victim’s rights forms to them. We work with victim’s compensation and make referrals to victim’s compensation and assists victims in getting that money that they have in out of pocket expenses for counseling and medical expenses and we refer them to local agencies for counseling and other services that they or their children may need. We do provide call-out service. Basically, there again you benefit - - I am on call 24 – 7 for the Boise Police Department and make that service available as well for the Meridian Police Department. We do have a victim witness coordinator on call 24 – 7 to respond to the scene. We currently are responding to misdemeanor call outs as they are needed by the police officers and we have also developed specialized resource packets that we provide to the victims in the Meridian jurisdiction as well and it is nice because there are certain resources that you don’t have in Meridian, but you are so close to Boise that it really works well. We also refer the victims from Boise City to Meridian and it works really well to kind of give a bigger scope and a little more diversity to what the victims can utilize. We also assist in non-traditional cases. What that means is if the police officers or somebody in your community needs assistance just kind of smoothing the waters or explaining things a little bit further if or requested to assist we do that. It doesn’t necessarily have to be a domestic violence case. No presentation would be complete without statistics. We currently have 27 open active cases. Twelve cases are closed, which means they have been disposed. Fourteen were declined prosecution cases and that can be for i.e., different reasons. Two cases are currently in for review and one case is in for probable cause pending a warrant or summons. De Weerd: That is for a three-month period? Perkins: I think that is over the last year, I believe. I’m sorry. It was for about a three-month period, I apologize. De Weerd: Wow. Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 25, 2003 Page 11 of 26 Perkins: And this is the number of cases total. There are 22 domestic battery cases, 8 domestic battery cases in the presence of a child, 5 violations of no- contact order, 4 violations of protection order, 4 stalking cases, 2 batteries, 3 telephone harassment cases and the miscellaneous charges are the cases that I refer to where a victim witness coordinator is requested, but it is not a traditional domestic violence case. De Weerd: Thank you. Do you have any questions? Perkins: Do you have any questions? Bird: No, I have none. Nary: No. Perkins: Thank you. Hanes: Madam President, members of Council, I am here to give you touchy, feely things. De Weerd: State your name please, thanks. Hanes: I am Matthew Hanes, the Juvenile Accountability Program Director. Basically, the Juvenile Accountability is a federally funded program through the Juvenile Accountability Incentive Block Grant. It began in 1999 at Boise City. We have been going for four years. We just finished up our fourth year. It diverts juvenile first-time offenders of alcohol and tobacco out of the Magistrate Court system. Alcohol and tobacco cases don’t go to juvenile court, so it can be very difficult and different for juveniles to attend kind of a more adult court setting. So, we pulled them out of that system and gave them a set of circumstances and consequences that deal with their alcohol and tobacco incidents. They are held accountable for their actions. They are given community service. They have to attend a series of educational classes. They have to write an essay. They also have to go to court for one hour with one of our staff members to view magistrate court to see what it would be like if they actually had to go to court. They are also held on one year of informal probation. It’s not like normal probation where I would be their probation officer, but basically hold the citation over their heads for that one year and give them more incentive to stay out of trouble and then when they are finished with that year it is put behind them and they don’t have a record. So, that’s what we do. Again, for Meridian JA program we began accepting citations in January 2003. We have a part-time coordinator at the Police Department here in Meridian. That is Traketia Mosbey, but you also get the benefit that I am there as well. I visit Traketia. I help her with her Meridian cases and she spends time in Boise City as well and has a part-time office at the Boise City Attorney’s Office. I have already explained that with the JA participants they have meetings, we obtain referrals, Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 25, 2003 Page 12 of 26 they perform community service, but what we can really do is we can have them do their community service in Meridian. We currently work with the Youth Ranch, with several different departments in Meridian City and hospices and those sort of establishments. The statistics from Meridian since January, we have processed 54 citations, which have 13 scheduled assessments, 14 are currently in the program, 20 successfully completed the program, 6 declined to participate for whatever reason. That could be that a parent may want the child to actually go to court and see what that’s like or the juvenile complains enough that the parent won’t let them in. It is a voluntary program, so we do not force them through it. They have that choice and then one was filed with magistrate court while in the program. That is a washout citation, so the juvenile either did not complete the contract or re-offended during the period of the contract. Is there any questions that I can answer? De Weerd: No, thank you. Hanes: Great. Thanks. Cockerille: Roger Cockerille again. We are going to wrap this show up. One slide on future outlook. There has been a lot of talk about the contract with Meridian in both cities. What I am here to say is that this contract will be in place as long as the policy makers in both cities like it. I want you to know that the Boise City Council will look at us carefully to make sure that we are not giving you guys something for free. By the same token, you want to know that we are not gauging you on this contract. This year your contract grew by six percent. By next year your Police Department will have grown by 20 percent from the time we entered the contract. It would be very easy for our city council to say, why has the work grown by 20 percent, but the contract only grown by six percent? We took a careful evaluation of the resources. We looked at the fact that you are going to bring officers on, but those officers would need to be trained before tickets could be processed by them and we made an educated guess. That is what I commit to continue doing with you in the future. I want you to feel like you can pick up the phone and call our office anytime. I wanted to introduce you to the people that administer the contract so that you would know our faces and feel comfortable talking to us about tough issues. With that, I will close our presentation and entertain any questions that you might have. De Weerd: Well, Roger, I appreciate your presentation. It was very well prepared and it looks like we are certainly getting huge value for the contract that we have with you. I have talked to several officers and there is a notable difference and appreciation in what you do for the department, so I would like to share that with you as well. So, we do appreciate it. Mr. Bird, do you want anything? Bird: No. Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 25, 2003 Page 13 of 26 De Weerd: What you don’t need to talk? Nary: I was just going to say that I don’t always like to put the Chief on the spot and I know they are here, although Roger said not to ask them when they are present, but if the Chief had any comment or anything that he would like to add, it might be an opportunity. De Weerd: Well, thank you. I probably wouldn’t have thought of that myself, Mr. Nary. Nary: That’s why I am here. Musser: Madam President, members of Council and Councilman Nary in particular, I would pretty much have to mirror most of the comments that we have received from Roger and his staff this evening in regards to how well this partnership has developed over the past year. I have seen a much better response from our officers in terms of pursuing citations, making sure that they have follow up on misdemeanor cases, where before there was a little bit of a loss in really pursuing some of that in terms of their attitudes and where we had been at with court. I think that one of the biggest things that has really helped us out is the availability to be open for questioning and to cover the cases, as Allison noted, she is there to be able to talk to the officers. We have a case officer that the officers can contact, find out what they could have done better or what would the circumstances were that may have been missing or lacking in their reports or that type of thing. And that type of positive feedback has made the officers do their jobs better because they are getting good feedback as to what they need to improve on or how to make it better. Without that type of partnership it makes it real tough for us to do an outstanding to excellent job and I think we are well on our track to being able to do that as a department now because of that partnership with Boise City Attorney’s Office at this point. De Weerd: Thank you, Chief. One thing I would like to add is Allison has been present and it’s nice seeing a face with the work and be able to associate it. And again, the training has been a huge component of it. I do like the touchy, feely part with the juvenile program and the witness service part of it as well. So, it’s just a nice value that our city has that we can pass on to our community. We do thank you. We’d hope that - - I guess that was one question I had with new administration coming in if there might be a change and we were hoping there wouldn’t be. Cockerille: With the regard to the fact that we are getting a new Mayor and two new council members that the best I can say there is that as you guys are well aware up here that in terms of policy and in terms of budget the council drives the show. By and large, we have a number of seats that have remained stable on that council. My best educated guess is that we are not going to see a great seat change. If I start to see a seat change on the horizon, rest assured that I Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 25, 2003 Page 14 of 26 will pick up the phone and give you an early warning phone call. Moreover, we have already entered into a contract for a whole new year and the City of Boise keeps its word. We will honor that contract to the letter for the full time that is in the contract. So, you are good for a year at the very least. De Weerd: Well, thank you and I will do what I can to help foster those relationships and keep it as long as the council desires. So, thank you Roger. Cockerille: Your welcome. De Weerd: Okay, Item Number 5. Item 5. Discussion of Billie Bowles Old Town Sewer Challenge: De Weerd: Hi Billie. Bowles: Hi Madam Chair and members. De Weerd: If you state your name and address and pull the microphone down. Thank you. Bowles: Billie Bowles. 403 East 3rd . You caught me at a very bad time because the problem I am coming here to talk to you about I have just had again and I am not happy. So, where I am starting is I had a back up sewer problem. I called Master Rooter, they came, they cleaned my lines there was nothing wrong with my lines. They went under the road, Ada Street, under that 50 yards into another property and I couldn’t go any further. I mean, it wasn’t my problem any more. I didn’t feel that it was my problem any more. So, I called the sewer people. They came out, he opened the sewer line, the main sewer line on 3rd Street. He looked down in it, looked at me and he said our lines are fine. Well, his lines might have been fine, mine aren’t. So, I asked him, can you tell me where the lines are? I need somebody to fix this. They told me we have no records of where any of the pipelines are. Nothing. So, I called records department. I have called everyone. I came to the City Hall. I mean, I called Dig Lines and I called the Sewer Department back again and they’d say not my problem. I said well it’s not my problem because I have talked to a state inspector, I told him the problem and he told me you have made some major boo boos because you are on -- my line runs across two people’s private property. They never had an okay. It wasn’t -- and there was no permission. I said it’s gone under the county road. I said what am I supposed to do now? I need some help. Nobody would help me. So I went to the County District Health Department and talked to her. She said well who did you talk to? I said well I talked to the Sewer Department and the Water Department and so she picked up the phone and she called and starting talking to this gentlemen and she says by the way what’s your name? And I told her and I said may I ask who you are talking to? And she told me. And then she said I understand, I understand, I Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 25, 2003 Page 15 of 26 understand. She put the phone down, walked over to me and said I can’t help you, turned her back on me and stood there. By then I am in tears. I don’t know where to go. This is the 14th day and I don’t have sewer. So, I have been calling everybody trying to find out. The twenty-first day I called a state inspector. He told me whom to call. I called the young lady, she has been very helpful, but they ignored me again. For 24 days I sat there in that house on 403 East 3rd without any sewer. I had to pay to go live some place else. I can’t even be in my own home and now today I have the same problem. The City says it’s not our problem. So, I had someone come to a council meeting and he calls me the next morning and says the council members and the attorney says you can take out a second mortgage on your house and fix the problem. That isn’t even an option, I am sorry. I am really hot and especially since I don’t have sewer again today. So, I want to have some help. I want to know what is going to be done. Not only that there are other people on my sewer line. It leaves my place and it goes to another property, she is hooked up to mine and we don’t know about the third property yet. It needs to be taken care of. So, I am asking for some help because I don’t have any other options any more. If I have to go through another twenty-four days, trust me I do have a temper and I try to keep it under control, been really good all these years, but I need help. I don’t want an excuse and they kept telling me not my problem, not my problem. It is their problem because the City let other people hook up on my line, which is a block and one half from my house and when they fix it, I would just like to have it just come right down my property right to the sewer line, instead of having to go a block and one half. The laws that you have right now that are written up are very poorly. I mean, if they say that I am responsible for my line to the main hook up, that is a block and one half. That is a block and one half. I am through. I am sorry. That’s it. De Weerd: Thank you Billie. You have questions Council? Bird: I don’t have for her, I do for us. De Weerd: Okay. Well, I am sorry to hear that it’s happening again Billie, but we will see what we can do. Nary: Madame President. De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: I guess I was unclear. Some of the people you said you talked to weren’t City people? Bowles: I talked to, yes, I talked to quite a few City people. I talked to the, let’s see, Gary Smith and a Bruce -- starts with an “f”. I never did -- Nary: Freckleton. Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 25, 2003 Page 16 of 26 Bowles: -- yes. Okay and then I have been in here and I have talked to somebody by the name of Fred at the Sewer Department. Nary: I just wondered because some of the people, you said, like someone came and talked to you and then they turned their back on you and walked away. Bowles: Oh, that was when I went to the Central District Health to see if I could get some -- Nary: Okay, that wasn’t, that wasn’t the City -- Bowles: No it wasn’t the City -- Nary: -- okay Bowles: But I did have a little problem with the sewer department. Nary: Okay. That’s fine. Thank you. Bowles: Your welcome. De Weerd: Hi Gary. I think we would probably like to get a little bit of an over view from the City’s standpoint. I know this is an unusual situation. Typically, I think we have a sewer main at each property and then they take responsibility from that main to have their service. Is that how I understand it? Smith: Yes, Council President, members of Council. Our ordinance, as it’s written right now states that the service lines for the sewer system are the responsibility of the property owners from the point that it connects to the main in the street until it reaches their house. That has been an ordinance for I don’t know how many years, as long as I have been around here that’s the way the ordinance has been written. So, in this particular case, as Billie mentions, a sewer line -- and her house is in Old Town. The sewer service line serving her house crosses Ada and Bruce will put this up on the overheads so you can see it here in a minute, but it crosses Ada and continues on across another private property, which is also connected to another service line and continues across a third property before it finally gets to the sewer line in the alley that the City has jurisdiction on. There is no sewer line in 3rd Street in front of her house, which would make this a much simpler situation. When I heard about the problem, I contacted the Wastewater Department, who Billie had previously contacted to find out what they had done in response to her call. I talked to Fred Putzier at the Wastewater Department. Fred said that he had talked to Billie and advised her of what our responsibilities were as far as the city’s sewer system was concerned. He had given her some information that her service line did indeed cross across two private parcels of ground before it gets to the city’s sewer line. I believe he said he made contact with the (inaudible) so that the possibility of Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 25, 2003 Page 17 of 26 getting into that property or accessing that property for a repair because according to the Master Rooter log that is where the flood was. The obstruction was not on her property it was on the property of the south to her. While Fred had talked to the property of the south of her, they indicated that they had a slow draining service line and so it sounded as though that’s where, indeed, the problem was. At that point, Bruce Freckleton and I went out into the field after Billie had -- let’s see -- yeah, Bruce Freckleton and I went out into the field to look at the situation first hand to see what her home -- how it was situated, where the line ran. They had marked that the Roto Rooter -- or the Master Rooter had marked that on the ground by tracing their routing cable. We looked at the situation and decided that we would try and get some information to see if there was an alternate route for her service line, which was out toward 3rd Street and then north to an alley, which also contains a sewer line that the City has jurisdiction over. We then sent a couple of our engineering technicians out in the field with a level to shoot some elevation spots and see if that line could flow to the north and because Billie has a basement it was determined that it was marginal as to whether or not it could work without digging up the line in the alley we weren’t certain if there was enough grade. So, the decision was made to try and help Billie by contacting a contractor that has done a lot of work in the City of Meridian to see if they would donate some services to facilitate the repair of the service line that she dischargers into. Bruce did make the call and we did get Brown Construction to donate some time because Billie had expended something around $500 with Master Rooter trying to get this thing cleaned out. Brown then went out and I don’t remember what date that was, but with the help of our City sewer inspector they spent roughly $1,400 in costs for Brown’s labor at least, not including the City’s help in digging up and replacing about 25 feet of sewer line in the property to the south of Billie Bowles’ residence. They did find a significant amount of root blockage in the line, replaced that, replaced a sweep elbow from that second property into the service line and from that point until this evening we were not aware that there was still a problem. So, that’s what the City has done to try and help Billie resolve the issue. How that service line got there, we don’t know. It’s old. There has been a lot of things happen in the Old Towne that there are no records of. It appears that part of that service line, before it gets to the sewer in the alley runs, actually runs under a garage or sometime of out building to get to the City line. I guess this is one of the reasons that the ordinance was written the way it was because of the inability of the City to perform any kind of maintenance on service lines that are outside the right-of- way. We just don’t have any control over what happens in those lines. Some of these older lines and I don’t know what this line was originally constructed of, but most of the older lines, such as this one are the old Orangeburg sewer pipe and the old Orangeburg pipe has a habit of, over the years, just collapsing. Plus, the joints are not tight at all to restrict roots. There are no gaskets in them. They are just push-on, friction fit joints. So, roots can easily find their way into the pipe and cause the blockages. I guess that’s what the City has done to this point in trying to help Billie resolve the problem and unfortunately it doesn’t sound like it’s resolved. Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 25, 2003 Page 18 of 26 De Weerd: I guess, Gary and we have talked about this is that I can understand the responsibility on the property owner when the stub is out in front of their house, but when it goes under a street and through two properties, you know, that’s I think, that’s a lot to ask of a property owner to have to assume responsibility for that much line and because she is at the end of the line, she gets all the back up. The other two property owners, apparently, hadn’t even noticed that there was an issue because she received the results. Smith: I understand that and it is a difficult subject for her because technically it’s not on her property, but it is -- she is part of that service line. It’s kind of -- and I think when Fred talked to the second property owner they were even willing to share in some of the cost of making the repair on the line. I mean, this to me is a -- it should be a joint effort between all of the property owners because they are all somehow contributing to service in that line. They are all contributory to that line. De Weerd: That is, but if they are not experiencing the backup I am sure they wouldn’t be able to justify the expense of it. I guess -- Smith: And a lot of times, if there is not an agreement ahead of time, that’s exactly what happens. That’s why, in all cases possible a separate service line is required for each building. Sometimes it’s not possible. In this case it was apparently wasn’t possible because they couldn’t get into the line on the north in that alley, so they had to go south with it. In order to get there, they had to cross two properties. That’s the only thing I can surmise out of all of this. De Weerd: So, is there a way that it can be corrected to run the line so that each of those three properties have their own stuff? Smith: By gravity, I don’t think so. Nary: Madam President. Smith: -- you could run a separate line for each one of the properties in generally the same alignment that exists right now, build three new lines – three separate lines. Apparently, there is enough grade, has been away to provide flow from Billie’s house to the City sewer line. I think it’s just the age of the service line that’s causing this issue. De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: Yes, I mean I guess I am perplexed by the problem -- the continuing problem because it sounds like that before tonight, if I understand you right Gary, you thought that before Ms. Bowles got up here tonight that it was resolved. Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 25, 2003 Page 19 of 26 Smith: I had no idea that it was an issue. Nary: Right. Because it sounds like, I mean, that the work -- you thought was done and thought it was completed and should have been working properly. I don’t, at least from what you are saying it doesn’t sound to me that we really can fix the problem other than unfortunately when these arise. I mean, obviously when they were engineered originally 30 or 40 years ago whenever those lines were installed obviously they knew where it went, that’s where it had to go, so obviously it’s not going to change -- any significance -- Smith: Yes. Nary: I don’t think -- It’s not the ordinance problem. The fact that – the property owners would have to come, like this situation to say you know I need relief. That’s what she is saying and that’s what sounds like they tried to do to deal with that because we have old lines, they probably are where they need to be. It doesn’t sound like there is any recorded utility easement to any of these things that’s why people built buildings over the top of them. As in the last 30 or 40 years, somebody just built a garage wherever they wanted to build one and they could. But, I don’t think that we can regret that any differently in a global way it has to be done individually in trying to address their concerns. I am still concerned as to why it’s a problem today. You know, it sounds like they stopped, they fixed it and now it’s not. I guess that’s what the next problem that she needs some assistance with and the City should try assist the best we can. I don’t know what the problem is, so. Smith: I don’t either. I wasn’t out there when they did the work. They put in about 25 feet of new service line as I understand it and it was my understanding that they thought they had the problem solved. De Weerd: So, Billie, if you could step up here. So, your sewer is backing up again? Bowles: Yes it is. As far as I know, until I ask the neighbor permission to go onto their property, they did not know they were on my line either. I thought I had a private line. I would just as soon have a private line because I have lived there 17 years now. I have never had any problems before, but now I have someone that’s moved in that’s got quite a few children and there is just me and -- De Weerd: Well, it’s true until this happened no one knew it existed and we do have to deal with it on a case by case -- Bowles: I would like to say that the gentleman that came out from the sewer department didn’t have the slightest idea which way the line even went. Because he told me it went the other direction. I said no it doesn’t. I says I had Master Rooter or whatever the company that I had come out and do all of the Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 25, 2003 Page 20 of 26 work and it goes under Ada and on to their property and on to somebody else’s property, which there was never any permission from either one of those before about that line. They didn’t even know that they were on my line. De Weerd: The reason you wanted to be on the Agenda tonight was to bring this to our attention and it sounds like it might be something that we need to consider is this happens and how we can best deal with it. But, I guess of a more immediate concern now is -- Bowles: Yes, because I don’t want to be away from home for 24 more days. I mean, I had to go and pay rent someplace else for 24 days to live because I couldn’t live in my house due to the problem. I was getting other people’s backup and I would come home during the day and then it would have seeped up into my bathtub. I am not too happy about this. De Weerd: Council, I guess we could ask staff to work this billing and try and figure out what the issue is at this point, but -- Smith: Madam President, I guess one thing we will have to do, I mean if we are going to get involved in this financially we are going to have to make a decision whether or not we are going to do this on private sewer lines or not. I mean, that’s going to be a change in policy, it’s going to be a change in the ordinance. We tried to help Billie with the expense of this. We don’t even know whether her line was there first or not. I don’t know when her home was built. I don’t know when the house to the south was built. Whether that service line was extended from the alley north to Billie’s home. I don’t know. Bowles: Well, I went down and checked, my house is 83 years old. So, I don’t know when Ada Street went in either. Smith: Right. Right. Bowles: I think Ada Street went in after that, so it went over the line – Smith: Right. But, anyway it’s, I guess, a revelation to all of us that that sewer line exists and it’s in the situation that it is. We have tried to help as far as the City is to facilitate the repair of the sewer line without a cost to the City, without a cost to Billie and the graciousness of Brown Construction helped that happen. AT this point, I don’t know. The only thing that we do know is that her line is apparently clear from her house to where the repair has been made, so if there is an issue in the line now it’s from there to the alley. So – Bowles: And may I say I don’t have Orangeburg, I have clay lines. Smith: Okay. Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 25, 2003 Page 21 of 26 Bowles: That was one of the things that I checked. I did a lot of footwork before I got you guys involved, you know, because I wanted to do the right thing. Smith: Sure. Bowles: I paid to have them come out and do all of this. Smith: Right. Bowles: And I would like to also note that the gentleman by the name of Fred and I don’t know his last name did not know where my sewer line was. Smith: Right. I understand that – Bowles: He told me it was going the other direction, north – Smith: I understand. I understand. And we don’t have records, Billie, on sewer service lines. It’s a guess until they do put something in the line that they can track from up above. Bowles: Well, I would really like – I don’t know how many people are on other sewer lines, but I want mine private. I can’t handle all of this, I can’t handle all of this. This is a long ways to be, you know, away from home – Smith: This is a difficult situation. Bowles: I am on social security, so this is really hard for me. Smith: I understand. It is a difficult situation, but sometimes these sewer lines happen the way they do because there aren’t any alternatives. I don’t believe that there is a gravity sewer line that can be put in for your house by itself because of your basement. If you didn’t have plumbing facilities in your basement then I think that that could sewer by gravity north to the alley, north of you. And you would have your own sewer service line then. Would you have to go out in the 3rd Street right-of-way and parallel right of way down to the alley because you can’t get through directly because – Bowles: The way you and me talked about – Smith: Yes, because of that duplex, correct. So, I hope you understand Madam President and Council that the City has tried to help Billie. I mean, we didn’t walk away from it. We didn’t turn our backs on it. Bowles: Well, this – it’s only starting backing up about two hours ago. You know it’s almost time for the holidays and I am thinking, oh this is great. I don’t want to Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 25, 2003 Page 22 of 26 have to go through this again for 24 more days. My welcome is being wore out from the places that I am renting, you know. Nary: Madam President. De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: I guess I don’t have any wisdom here on how to fix this problem here either. I am going to assume, ma’am that hundreds of people in the Old Town area could have this exact same problem. Because we have the same issue from what I hear from Mr. Smith all of the older town area, the lines have been existing for a long time. The only solution I can think of, which really doesn’t help you out personally, is – I mean if you abandon that line in regards to her, she’d have to hook up to a different line, right? Smith: Right. Nary: That would be your expense, not the City’s. Bowles: Well, I disagree. I don’t think it should be my expense. I don’t think there should be other people on my line to start with. You know – Nary: But that was already existing. Bowles: And I didn’t appreciate it when Bruce come back and told me what the Council had to say that I could take out a second mortgage to fix this problem. My lines are clear. Clear up to Ada. Under Ada, my lines are cleared. It was not my lines. It’s in 50 yards into some else’s property, which as far as I know there was no permission to be on that property. No permission to be on the property next to it, which it runs – Nary: There is no recorded permission to be there. That doesn’t mean there wasn’t permission. I don’t know, as we all heard, there is no record of how or when any of that was built. But, I don’t think it isn’t that you can’t hook up to a city line. It’s just the whose expense that is. Bowles: Well, whoever hooked up to that line in the first place paid that initial hook up fee, so I shouldn’t have to do it again. Nary: But, you want to hook to another one, ma’am. That’s what I have been telling you I don’t think – I know that doesn’t satisfy you – Bowles: I just want the problem cleared up because I would like to be able to stay at my own house, flush my own toilet, take a shower. Twenty-four days. How would you like to have to leave your house for 24 days? Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 25, 2003 Page 23 of 26 Nary: I sympathize with the problem. I am just telling you I don’t have an answer for it either. Bowels: Okay. Alright. Fine. De Weerd: Mr. Nichols. Nichols: Madam President, members of the Council. You need to recognize that if you are going to make change in policy with regard to private service lines that will have a fiscal impact, as I guarantee you that there are these all over town because I know of a situation in Nampa that property that I know of where. For the grace of the neighbor who allowed repair to go through the yard. It had to be rerouted. There are these old service lines through back yards connecting to sewers and alleys. I would almost guarantee that they are all over town because they are in every community that had sewer lines put in late or in the 30’s, 20’s and so if you are going to make a decision that you are going to fix these then you are going to need to build something into your sewer rates to pay for these kinds of repairs. You are going to need studies of how often you are going to have to do it, what it’s going to cost, continuing deterioration of these lines and all of those things will need to be built into the sewer rates, so that you can do it. De Weerd: And we don’t know how many circumstances this exists in. Smith: No, we don’t, Madam President. Back in 1980 or so or 1981, the City of Meridian did a pretty good-sized project in the Old Town replacing sewer service lines. In fact, Brown Construction at that time was just getting started over in this area and they actually did those replacements for the City of Meridian and we received a grant through – I don’t know if it was EPA or EDA or where it came from, but it was a grant money. It was almost one hundred percent money available for sewer service line replacements. We did quite a few of them in the Old Towne area. Ones that were, I am not sure how they determined they were bad, but anyway, they were replaced because of their age. This is really – I don’t know how unique to say it is, but I would say it is somewhat unique that there are three homes on one service. I don’t know from a legal standpoint it almost appears to me that that line is serving three homes, therefore, it’s an equal liability for each home. I don’t know how, what legal standing that would have, but it’s the reason that a single service line is required for each home in the plumbing code nowadays, because of this. Exactly because of this. Once a blockage occurs, then the finger pointing starts. Whose problem is it? I don’t think it’s the City’s problem. How it got to be a problem, I don’t know. We just don’t have any records as how it got there. Whether it initially went all the way to Billie Bowles’ house and then the other homes built and connected to it or if it started at the alley and progressed north to Billie’s house. So, we don’t know. I know Billie’s house is old, but I assume the other houses are older too. I do know the second house is a rental. At least, that’s what I have been told. Those folks have expressed to Fred at the wastewater plant that they would be willing Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 25, 2003 Page 24 of 26 to pay for their share of maintenance on that line. The house farther to the south, I don’t know anything about it, other than it appears that the service line runs under the garage or on the outside part of their house. I wish there was a different way. I wish there was a way that we could sewer her house by itself, definitely. That’s what we tried to look at initially, but in order to do that where it comes out of the southwest corner of her house it would have to excavated down along side the south boundary of her house, out to the street and then north in 3rd Street right-of-way to the alley. It just didn’t appear, based on the elevations that we took out there that it would be able to flow by gravity in that direction. De Weerd: Well, is there any direction that we can get tonight. It sounds like that at least whatever it is this is not just Billie’s problem, it’s all three of those homes. Smith: Well, yes. I mean, that’s my own opinion that it’s a community line for those three sewer users and therefore, as a community facility it should be – the cost of maintenance should be shared by all three people that use it. I mean, equally. It’s unfair to Billie for the burden of expense to be placed on her, when the other folks are also using that line. At this point, it appears as though there is a blockage below the second house and maybe below – obviously below where the repair was made. Like I say, the second house is willing to share in the costs of repair. At least, that’s what they indicated to our wastewater department. So. Bird: Madam President. De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: Is the other two houses having backup problems, too? De Weerd: I am sorry, you will have to come up here. Bowles: The one just south of me on the other side of Ada. They have indicated that it’s very slow and they have had problems over the years because my girlfriend use to own that place and she was always having problems with it. De Weerd: But, you are the one furthest up stream? Bowles: Yes. De Weerd: Or up line? Bowels: My lines were clear when they came I had Master Rooter come, they cleared and went through clear underneath Ada 50 yards onto the other property. I have it videoed. I had them come back and video it so that I would be able to prove to everybody that I wasn’t the one that was having – you know, my lines were clear. Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 25, 2003 Page 25 of 26 De Weerd: So, what kind of direction can we get tonight here. Bowles: Help me, help me. De Weerd: I know, I will if I could. Smith: Bruce has a couple of letters in his file from the two property owner’s to the south of Billie. The one at the alley -- he got these letters -- I think Billie got these letters so that they could access the line for the repairs to get the property owner’s permissions. The last paragraph of the person that owns the property adjacent to the alley, I require that I be notified of the work to be done in advance and that the property be put back to its original state when work is finished. Also, if any of this work is to be any of my responsibility. The second property owner to the north – just to the south of Billie it says, I give my permission for excavation crew or for the City of Meridian to dig on my property. Any damage done to the property, I am assuming, will be taken care of and put back as found. I am still waiting for a quote regarding a portion of the work that I will be responsible for paying. Please contact me as soon as possible. Both property owners are willing to pay a share of the costs to repair the sewer line -- the service line. I think it’s just a matter of Billie getting together with those property owners and saying we still have got a problem. At this point, nobody has paid for anything, except Billie has paid to have Master Rooter come out – Bowles: I was going to say, I have. Smith: -- and clean as far as they could clean with their cleaning equipment. So, it appears that the other two property owners realize that they have some responsibility in the repair and maintenance if that line. It is a private sewer line. I really think that the private part of this needs to get together and resolve it. I mean, we -- it seems to me that the City has tried to facilitate this as much as possible. I mean, I guess we could call the other property owners and tell them there is still a problem, but it just seems like it’s outside of where the City needs to be operating. Bowles: Well, it’s way beyond my property. I mean -- Smith: I understand that, but I mean in my opinion it’s a joint effort between the three property owners because it’s a joint use sewer service line. If the three property owners couldn’t get together and each one of them told the other it’s not my problem you got to take care of it that would be one problem, but it doesn’t appear that that is the situation. It appears that the other two property owners are agreeable to shouldering a share of the cost. De Weerd: And that cost would include, probably Billie, what you have already expended. So, that would be shared proportionately. Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 25, 2003 Page 26 of 26 Bowles: Because I have actually gone 20 yards into her property already, to -- I mean we stopped at the fence, you know and then they went further in there about 50 yards into her property. De Weerd: Well, what I would like to suggest is that we go ahead and we have still the regular agenda. I am sorry, Billie. Bowles: That’s okay. Thank you. De Weerd: We can recess and maybe recess for five minutes, ask Gary and maybe Mr. Nichols if we can explain to Ms. Bowles the next steps. Nary: Sounds good. Bird: That’s fine with me. That’s a good idea definitely. De Weerd: Well, then I would accept a motion to adjourn the Pre-council meeting. Bird: So moved. Nary. Seconded. De Weerd: It’s been moved and seconded to adjourn the pre-council meeting. It’s 7:20. All those in favor say aye. Motion Carried MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES MEETING ADJOURNED AT 7:20 P.M. (TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) APPROVED: / / ROBERT D. CORRIE, MAYOR DATE ATTESTED: WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., CITY CLERK