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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2003 11-12 PreMeridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 12, 2003 The Pre-Council Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 5:30 P.M. on Wednesday, November 12, 2003, by City Council President Tammy de Weerd. Members Present: Tammy de Weerd, Cherie McCandless, Bill Nary, and Keith Bird. Members Absent: Mayor Robert Corrie. Others Present: Bill Nichols, Pauline Skeggs, and Brad Watson. Item 1. Roll-call Attendance: X Tammy de Weerd X Bill Nary X Cherie McCandless X Keith Bird O Mayor Robert Corrie De Weerd: Okay I would like to call the meeting to order for Wednesday November the 12th at 5:30 and start with roll call Mr. Clerk. Item 2. Adoption of the Agenda: De Weerd: Number 2 adoption of the agenda. Bird: Madam President. De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: I move we adopt the agenda as published with the exception of on Number 3 the Executive Session delete parentheses b. Nary: Second. De Weerd: Okay it’s been moved and seconded to adopt the agenda as printed with the deletion on three the item listed as 67-2345(1)(b). All those in favor say aye. All ayes motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Item 3. Executive Session per Idaho Code 67-2345(1)(b) and (c): De Weerd: Item Number 3. Bird: Madam President. De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 12, 2003 Page 2 of 10 Bird: I move we go into Executive Session as per Idaho Code 67-2345(1)(c). Nary: Second. De Weerd: Okay it’s been moved and seconded to move into Executive Session per Idaho Code 67-2345(1)(c). Mr. Clerk will you call roll. Roll Call: Bird, aye; Nary, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES (Enter into Executive Session) (Come back from Executive Session) McCandless: I’ll entertain a motion to bring us out of executive committee. Bird: So moved. Nary: Second. McCandless: All in favor. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES McCandless: Have we opened the Pre-Council? Bird: Yes. McCandless: No decisions were made in the Executive Session. Item 4. Discussion of Westborough Subdivision Sewer Service Request: De Weerd: Okay we’ll move to Item Number 4 discussion of Westborough Subdivision sewer service request. We’ll open with Brad’s comments. Watson: Thank you Madam President. Several weeks ago Jim Jewett the developer of Westborough Subdivision submitted a letter to the Public Works Department requesting sewer service to the five residential lots that are part of that. As you may recall a month or so, Council agreed to provide water service to these five residential lots. What they’re proposing is not really a central sewer system like the city would – term 1. It’s more of a private collection system for the five lots. Each residence would have a grinder pump and they would pump it into a Collin pressure sewer. Ultimately it discharges into the city sewer out on Locust Grove Road. We’ve put together a summary memo, which I hope you have in your packet. It’s dated October 2nd . The Public Works Department doesn’t object to this and maybe I need to back up a little bit a little bit more background. All along, we thought the developer evidently thought that these Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 12, 2003 Page 3 of 10 five lots would be served by individual septic systems. They met with Central District Health and apparently, that won’t fly. That’s why they’ve approached us. The memo that I sent to you has six conditions. At least most of them I discussed with Mr. Jewett last week. There were a couple of other ones that we discussed here just a few minutes ago and I don’t think that they have a particular problem with them. They have a copy of this memo now too. Anyway, we would like if the Council does approve sewer service for these five lots in Westborough we would like those six conditions to be part of your motion. Mr. Mike Reno from Central District Health is here tonight too who could answer any questions on what has transpired as far as those approvals. Obviously, Mr. Jewett is here as well. I don’t have anything more to add unless you have some questions of me. De Weerd: Any questions Council? Mr. Jewett. Jewett: Thank you do you need my name and address? De Weerd: Please. Jewett: Jim Jewett 3654 South Rustler in Meridian. Brad was – I’ve reviewed the conditions that he would like to have and we’re in agreement with those. The only thing I would like to minorly correct was in our meeting with Central District Health they have a grave concern about septics out there. There is a process that we can go through with them albeit lengthy to obtain those septics but their opinions in sewer is so close that this temporary (inaudible) would be a better alternative than septics that would be – ultimately have to be removed once the sewer was hooked up. In Brad’s conversations with me that’s in the near future and the near being two to five years. Central District Health thinks that this is the way to go. Mike Reno is here tonight and he can answer any of your questions regarding Central District Health’s position on it. I’m in agreement with what Brad wants to do and I’ll stand for any questions. De Weerd: I guess the only question I have is when you came through with this subdivision did you not know this at that time. Why has it changed? Jewett: When we met with Central District Health, as you are aware we started this some time ago with the original subdivision that’s been changed to this. When we came back through with this plat, Central District Health had transmitted to Ada County that was never transmitted to us their concerns. We never got a copy of these concerns until we met with them in October or late September whenever it was to address what they needed us to do to do the septics. Then they showed us the letter they had transmitted to the county but has never been transmitted to us. Until I met with them on October 22nd, I was not aware of their concerns of a high water table in the area. That’s – so any time prior to that I wasn’t aware of their concerns. De Weerd: So their comments were not part of staff’s comments for conditions or anything else? Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 12, 2003 Page 4 of 10 Jewett: When we went back and researched it we did find it buried into their staff comments but it wasn’t transmitted to us. It was part of staff’s comments at Ada County. De Weerd: And don’t you read your conditions and staff comments before you agree to them? Jewett: Yes so it was an error on my part. The comment that was in the staff was comply with Central District Health. That’s what the comment was in the staff report. We had to go get their comments to know what those were and we weren’t aware that they’re concerned with this area. Their septic is just across the street all of Castlebury is completely done with septics with one-acre lots. Spyglass, which is right across the street, is all done with septics. We weren’t aware of this concern and all staff comment was was comply. That’s pretty standard to comply with Central District Health. De Weerd: Any questions Council. Thank you. Do you have any questions for Central District Health? Bird: I have none. Madam President. De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: My view on this is – you asked the question I was going to ask is why this wasn’t brought up when the water was brought up because the conditions had to be – Central District Health had to be on this Ada County approval. I don’t know it seems like we’re going outside the city more than we’re going inside the city with our sewer. Just a bigger reason why we should be sewered out within the city as far as we can. Another reason we should have sewer trunk line fees in place which we need to get taken care of. I don’t know this is a problem that’s going to keep happening particularly out there on the northeast corner. I’m sure that the water table all that area out there isn’t going to allow very many septic tanks if any. I’m sure Mr. Reno can verify that. I don’t know it (inaudible) I’ve got to sit down myself and personally think about whether I would say yea or naye. Nary: Madam President. De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: I guess I did have one question for Brad. I read your letter but – so what if we say no. Then what. Watson: Council Member Nary and Council Members I think if we say no his project has to go back to the drawing board either with some sort of a central collection system that ties into our system or maybe resurrection of the other proposal that he had several years ago. One thing I can point from a development side of things is with the project you’ll be seeing very soon sewer will be at least preliminarily designed within an eighth of a mile of this project. I think it is more of a short-term system. I think Mr. Reno can probably maybe Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 12, 2003 Page 5 of 10 expand on some of the contingencies that might happen if you say no if, you wish. De Weerd: I guess one more question for you and maybe for Mr. Reno because it appears he might have to come up and talk to us anyway is that there’s the church out there. There’s also the school and you know our – what are the sewer plans for those projects. Watson: Madam President the Council has already approved sewer service to both of those project. Those can gravity flow into the line that’s going up Locust Grove Road where as these are on the west end of that project and can’t gravity back into that line. That’s why this proposal is a little bit different. De Weerd: What is to say that it’s not going to grow in numbers once we agree to this or if we agree to this? Watson: I’m sorry what would grow. De Weerd: His project. Watson: Well it’s platted now. I believe it’s recorded or at least it’s really close to it. There are five residential lots. There is one quasi-commercial lot in the northwest corner that’s not included as part of this proposal. I don’t know that there’s anywhere it can grow within the 40 acres that he owns or did own. De Weerd: Okay. Council would you care to hear from Central District Health? Nary: Sure. De Weerd: Okay. Reno: I’m Mike Reno with Central District Health Department. Madam President Council Members Central District Health isn’t saying that this can’t be sewered with septic systems it’s just that they have a lengthy process that they would have to go through to do that. They would have to in our transmittal to the county back in January we indicated that they would have to do grown water monitoring on that site from June through October through the irrigation season. They would also have to do a nutrient pathogen study on that property to evaluate whether they could put five lots on septics on that amount of acreage. That wasn’t done. Mr. Jewett came to us in October and that’s the situation (inaudible). If you were to have him proceed down the path of septic systems we would make him go through that process and it would be the end of October before we could ever know if we could issue a permit or not on those properties. This subdivision has been up a couple of times. It’s come through for the first time I think it was in April of 2001 as a 71 lot proposed on city water city sewer. The church and the school that you were referring to earlier originally we were going to propose the on septic system and then they chose to go – not to do the nutrient pathogen study to go with the city sewer when it was approved. Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 12, 2003 Page 6 of 10 De Weerd: And they were where? The church and the school what those conditions would be if they chose the septic route. Reno: I believe the church was. If they were going to be discharging more than 600 gallons per day to the sub-surface then they would have to go through the nutrient pathogen study evaluation on that property. De Weerd: And is that a pretty standard requirement? Reno: It is anymore. Any subdivision with five or more lots or any commercial development over 600 gallons per day in an area of concern with the district has designated as an area of concern either shallow depths of ground water or shallow depths to basalt or an area where we have known contamination. The Castlebury Subdivision and then Spyglass Subdivision that Mr. Jewett was referring to were approved under the old standards. The standards have been revised and become more stringent. The chances of a one-acre lot are pretty slim anymore. De Weerd: When were those revisions made? Reno: Late 2001. De Weerd: Okay. Bird: Madam President. De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: Mr. Reno I think you stated that January of this year was when you made your comments to the Ada County Planning regarding the existing makeup of the subdivision as it is now. Is that right? Reno: That’s correct. Bird: Okay so at that point Mr. Jewett should have been able to see your report? Am I not right? Reno: Yes sir. De Weerd: Okay. Thank you very much. Nary: Madam President. De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: I guess to me it appears that you know this is not a public health issue yet. When we have agreed to extend the sewer services outside the city limits many of the times we’ve done that we’ve done it because there was a public health risk. Somebody’s septic system failed the sewer line was pretty close and they Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 12, 2003 Page 7 of 10 weren’t annexed yet. We allowed them to hook onto the sewer for the public health concerns. That’s not the issue here. Here it’s the inconvenience to Vienna Woods and the fact that Mr. Jewett didn’t read his conditions ahead of time when he asked us for water service. I guess I’m really not that compelled to want to do this. I think what Mr. Bird said originally was correct. We try to be very cautious in doing this because this is the type of situation that other cities have gotten into a pickle with later because they have extended these services. It takes awhile for these places to become contiguous. Once they become contiguous it gets them being in a fight with the people over the fact that they are to get sewer service and now they have to pay for it. I guess I haven’t heard anything compelling yet as to why we should agree to this. Unless I missed the boat. Bird: Madam President. De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: I too feel like Councilman Nary in that why we would hook up again. Brad how far is the North Slough from being sewered out. This has to go back into – flows naturally back into the North Slough right? Watson: Council Member Bird you’re correct. That was the project that you approved funding for for this year and we’ve selected a consultant to at least begin negotiations on a contract to design that out. Bird: Would you – Brad would you think that it would be out for bid this spring? Is that too early or – Watson: It’s conceivable but there are some easement negotiations that have to take place. As we, all know those could be longer. I hope that by next summer it’s being constructed. Bird: And how – what kind of a project do you anticipate Brad about how long? Because we have it up so far don’t we up Ten Mile. Isn’t it up to Lochsa Falls in that area? Watson: Correct it’s up to Lochsa Falls and all the way through to Linder Road. Paramount Subdivision will be taking that – Bird: On over to Meridian? Watson: Well just through their first couple of phases or whatever they’re going to build. Then we’ll try to build the rest of it. A project of that magnitude the White Trunk was three miles. We did that in about six months. This would be less than two miles so four or five months. Bird: Brad maybe I misunderstood or something but how are we going to – how is he – is he going to put a lift station in and pump it over to the other one for now or are we going to have a collector there? What’s – what am I missing here? Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 12, 2003 Page 8 of 10 Watson: As I understand it each residential lot will have it’s own grinder pump that will pump into a common pressure line that traverses eastward to Locust Grove Road. That would all be a privately owned and maintained system. Bird: And then, it would come into the Locust Grove deal, come down to the pump station, and come on in that way to the white? Watson: Correct for right now until the North Slough comes and picks that up. Bird: Until the North Slough comes in. Is that pump station capable of handling – I mean we’re only talking about five more lots? Watson: Right it would be fine. It will soon be upgraded for another project that you haven’t seen yet if you approve it. Bird: This is – I mean we’re pumping stuff into the lift stations. The feeling I’ve got in my five or six years that I’ve been on the Council is we don’t like lift stations. Yet, we just keep pouring stuff into a lift station. Vienna Woods probably wasn’t – which nonetheless were on the Council at the time probably wasn’t a good idea but we did it. Now we’re putting – pumping other stuff into it. Who’s paying for the upgrades? Watson: The project that you will be seeing is one that will annex to the city and will go into Vienna Woods lift station and will have to upgrade that lift station. It will come in as a normal project so to speak. Bird: Then by 2005 the lift station or that will go away and be flowed back into the North Slough right? Watson: Correct. Correct. If I could just point out the one benefit of this scenario is that the developer is willing to put up half the cost of the eight inch main up Jericho Road whereas if he proceeds through the county and with the septic systems that’s not on the table because it’s all through Ada County. That’s one financial benefit to the city. Bird: But the only problem is Brad as I see in it – and we’ve got great examples just to the east of us. They went out and sewered a whole bunch of their ground. The people the developers and everybody signed an annex when they got contiguous. When they did it, they had lawsuits because the developers in the first place don’t convey that to the buyers. Here the buyers are getting told they’re coming into the city because of the developer. I don’t know. Unless there is a way we can put it on the plat which we don’t control the plat because it comes through the county. Watson: Correct. Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 12, 2003 Page 9 of 10 Bird: Can we put a stipulation on there that everybody that buys a place there says – realizes that hey, once I’m contiguous I’m going in the city because I’m on their sewer and water. Watson: From what I understand it’s already recorded. Bird: It’s recorded on the plat? Watson: No, the plat is already recorded so it’s – Bird: That’s what I mean so you can’t do that. How’s our protection? We had the same thing that the ones to east had with us or they had. Sure they won I guess most of the suits but it cost them a lot of money and time to do it. That’s the thing that scares me Brad. It absolutely scares me. I don’t want to put some burden like that on a future Council. De Weerd: Well and it’s not just the future Council it’s as the homes pass down the line. The first homebuyer might realize it but the second time that same house is sold well that homeowner that buys it knows it. I think that’s where Boise did get in it’s trouble is it’s not really the first person who bought that home it was the subsequent ones that did. They were not aware of it. Yes, we are only talking five lots but we’re creating another enclave or an island out there that I don’t know – I can’t see right now, what the benefit to the community is to do this. Once those property owners would have to be put on, this kind of a sewer will have it out there and then it’s not at the cities cost anyway or is it if they had to ask for sewer eventually. Watson: Madam President I guess it depends on how badly they need it or want it. If they have septic system failures, they will obviously be in there wanting to build that I think. If we’re trying to bring all that property in and annex it then it maybe on the city’s tab at least in part. De Weerd: So staff’s recommendation is to do this? Watson: Well the way I worded it is we don’t have any objection to it. The two primary reasons why I didn’t have an objection to it was because of the cost issue and we would get half of that up front to build the eight-inch main in Jericho in the future. The second reason is maybe not as a city employee but I guess maybe as a professional engineer I just hate to see septics go in the ground. That has nothing to do with the position with the city. Bird: Madam President. De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: Brad I agree with you. I don’t want to see another septic system in any of the ground around here if we can help. In the same token this eight inch pipe you keep saying from Jericho now is that going to be the one that flows back the natural flow one back to the North Slough? Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 12, 2003 Page 10 of 10 Watson: Correct. Bird: And he’s willing to pay for half of that? Watson: Yes. Bird: You’re putting me between a rock and a hard place coming up this soon and stuff. I don’t know how soon Mr. Jewett needs an answer on this but I’m not ready to make one right now. I can’t speak for the other three Councilmen. De Weerd: Well we can ask to put this on the Regular Agenda next week and revisit it. It might be helpful Brad, also to have an area map and a copy of the proposed development or the approved development so that we know more about the location and actually what land it surrounds. What might be annexed or proposed as well. Watson: Okay I can do that. Thank you. De Weerd: Okay so Mr. Jewett we’ll take this up again next week. Thank you Mr. Reno for being here. Okay that concludes our Pre-Council Meeting Agenda. Bird: Madam President. De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: I would move that we adjourn the Pre-Council Meeting. Nary: Second. De Weerd: Okay it’s been moved and seconded to adjourn Pre-Council. All those in favor say aye. All ayes motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES MEETING ADJOURNED AT 6:59 P.M. (TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) APPROVED: / / ROBERT D. CORRIE, MAYOR DATE ATTESTED: WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., CITY CLERK