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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2003 10-14Meridian City Council Meeting October 14, 2003 The Regular Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:00 P.M., Tuesday, October 14, 2003, by Council President Tammy de Weerd. Members Present: Tammy de Weerd, William Nary, Keith Bird, and Cherie McCandless. Members Absent: Mayor Robert Corrie. Others Present: Bill Nichols, Will Berg, Anna Powell, Brad Watson, Bill Musser, Doug Strong and Dean Willis. Item 1: Roll-call Attendance: Roll call. __X Tammy de Weerd _ X__ Bill Nary __X Cherie McCandless __X Keith Bird __O__ Robert Corrie De Weerd: Okay. I'd like to welcome you all here this evening and I will go ahead and open up the City Council regular agenda meeting for October 14th at 7:00 o'clock and we will start with roll call attendance. Item 2: Adoption of the Agenda: De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Item number two is adoption of the agenda. There has been some noted changes necessary. In the Consent Agenda on 3-A is tabled for another week. That would make it to October 21st . We need to pull 3-D to 5-D. Item seven will be continued for one week to October 21st . Eleven as well to October 21st and Item 21 to November 25th. Anna, on Items 12, 13, and 14, do you have a recommendation on those? Powell: Madam President, apparently, they got lost in our office. I was -- or we asked to table them, because -- or we had considered tabling them, because we had not received the plans. That appears to be an error on our part, not on the applicant's part, or in the interest of moving them as quickly as possible, if we could just table one week, we will review them as fast as we can and get you comments. De Weerd: Okay. So, are there members in the audience here for Items 12, 13, and 14? If so, could you raise your hand? Okay, are you going to be able to come back in a week? Our staff has not had an opportunity to review the revised plat and so I apologize for the inconvenience. Sir, is that going to go work for you? Okay. Thank you. Again, we apologize. Okay. So, if Council -- Meridian City Council October 14, 2003 Page 2 of 45 Nary: Madam President? De Weerd: Uh-huh. Nary: With all of those changes as noted by you, I'd move to approve the agenda as published. McCandless: Second. De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve the agenda as amended. I will go over those amendments one more time, just for everyone's information. Item 3- A will be tabled until October 21st . 3-D will be pulled to Item five on the regular agenda. Item seven will be continued for one week to October 21st. Item 11 to October 21st. 12, 13, and 14, as well, to October 21st. It looks like we are going to have a full agenda already next week and then, Item 21 will be November 25th. All those in favor of the motion say aye. Okay. All ayes. Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 3: Consent Agenda: A. Tabled from October 7, 2003: Resolution No. : Approving the Memorandum of Understanding with Meridian Firefighters Local 2311 regarding Wages: B. Approve minutes of September 23, 2003 City Council Regular Meeting: C. Approve minutes of September 23, 2003 Pre-Council Meeting: E. Water Main Easement for LDS Stake Center (McMillan and Linder): F. License Agreement with Nampa Meridian Irrigation District for LDS Stake Center (McMillan and Linder): G. License Agreement with Nampa Meridian Irrigation District for the Jackson Drain Pathway through Locust Grove Place Subdivision: H. Agreement for Professional Services for Meridian Development Corporation (MDC) Water Main Upgrades on East 2nd Street and Bower Street – Civil Survey Consultants: Meridian City Council October 14, 2003 Page 3 of 45 I. October 2003 Addendum to Development Agreement Correcting the legal description for AZ 00-026 Bear Creek Subdivision No. 6 (fka / approved as Kodiak Development): Bird: Madam President? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: I move that we approve the Consent Agenda with the changes of 3-A being tabled to October 21st , 2003. D, the resolution for Prosecutor / Criminal Legal Services, be moved to 5-D on the regular agenda and would ask for the Council President and the Clerk -- to sign and the Clerk to attest on all proper papers and I'd move that we approve the Consent Agenda. McCandless: Second. De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve the Consent Agenda as amended. Mr. Clerk, roll call. Nary: Madam President, could I ask a question before we do that? De Weerd: Uh-huh. Mr. Nary. Nary: Since we moved item seven -- or tabled it to 10/21, is item I on the Consent Agenda, that appears to relate to the same development, is it okay to approve this or should we have moved that, too? That's the addendum to the development agreement regarding the same subdivision phase, so I didn't know -- De Weerd: Mr. Nichols? Nichols: Madam President, Members of the Council, that's correct. It should be moved. Nary: Okay. Bird: I will change my -- if the second -- McCandless: Second agrees. Bird: I will change to move item I on the Consent Agenda to 10/21/03. De Weerd: To 10/21/ 03? We were pulling D to Item five. Bird: But that's got to go along with Item number seven, which is going on the regular -- De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Mr. Clerk. Meridian City Council October 14, 2003 Page 4 of 45 Roll Call: McCandless, yea; Nary, yea; de Weerd, yea; Bird, yea. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 4: Department Reports: A. Public Works Department: 1. Discussion with Marvin Everett regarding Consent to Annexation Agreement for 785 South Locust Grove Road: De Weerd: Okay. Item four, Department Reports. We will begin with Public Works. Discussion with Marvin Everett regarding Consent to Annexation Agreement for 785 South Locust Grove Road. Watson: Thank you, Madam President, Council Members. I believe you have in your packets a copy of the letter from Mr. Marvin Everett to me, dated September 15th. The situation out there on Locust Grove Road is that ACHD is attempting to acquire right of way for the Locust Grove widening and overpass and this new right of way would be over the top of an existing septic system. Consequently, they would like to hook up to the city's sewer system. However, Mr. Everett is requesting that he not be annexed. His property is contiguous to the city limits at this time. Brent Smith, right of way consultant for ACHD, is in attendance tonight and can probably explain the situation in more detail and more clearly than I am. With that, I will stand for any questions or turn it to you or Mr. Smith. De Weerd: Okay. Any questions for Brad? Okay. Mr. Smith. If you will just state your name and address. Smith: I am J. Brent Smith, I'm a right-of-way consultant for the Ada County Highway District. I live at 10342 Estate Drive, Boise, Idaho. We started negotiations for the additional right of way purchases on the Locust Grove section of -- from Bentley to Franklin Road. Through the course of the negotiations we were able to identify -- because Mr. Everett brought it to our attention. Mr. Everett is in the audience this evening, so if you have any questions of him, you can ask him. Like Mr. Watson said, the Everett property is 785 South Locust Grove Road. It is a 20 acre tract, with a residence and out buildings on it. It has an assessor's number of S111814200. The current zoning on this piece of property is RUT. I believe you already know what that is, but I will just refer to it again as rural urban transition category, which permits, as one of the uses, the agricultural use that Mr. Everett currently is utilizing on the property. We are buying an additional 23 feet of right of way and it makes a total bid of 48 feet on the -- would be Mr. Everett's side of the property. We did discover that -- he excavated from his septic system out towards the right of way and we discovered there is field drains going out into the proposed right of way. I came to the Department of Public Works at that moment and they directed me to see if we could get a disposition out of the Central Meridian City Council October 14, 2003 Page 5 of 45 Health that would allow us to put in a replacement drain field off the septic tank and they denied our request quite vehemently. They said because there is sewer service available in front, there is a short stub that was put in with the subdivision, on the opposite side of Locust Grove and that is available at this time. With that in mind, I went to the Ada County Planning and Zoning to do a possible lot line adjustment to just isolate the acre home site that Mr. Everett -- that would result in this situation. Back with the Department of Public -- or with your Public Works Director and also speaking with representatives of the Planning and Zoning, we felt that probably the best course would be to request the services and with the benefit of annexation into the city. I think that Mr. Everett -- I know for a fact Mr. Everett is willing to do that, just when it is appropriate from the question that we have. He has entered into an agreement after September 19th , this response from the city. We have a process that if we -- any continuous status or status that Ada County Highway District at this time and we can close the transaction, because he has been willing to negotiate an amicable settlement, including the Ada County Highway District. But it's predicated on the possibility of a favorable response from you folks at that request that we would -- he would be permitted to hook up. However, he is willing to be annexed when he would either sell the property, in whole or in part, or request additional services and I guess what we are here to do is request Council's approval of annexation based on these terms, that the annexation be deferred until that time and he would be willing to sign an agreement to that effect. De Weerd: Okay. Council, do you have any questions for Mr. Smith? It sounds like you have looked at all options. Smith: Well, we tried to make this as agreeable to all parties as possible and the economic hardship with being annexed at this time is something that Mr. Everett is not looking forward to. He didn't invite us to come out and buy the property from him, as most property owner aren't too inclined to volunteer property to us, so -- but we are in the last stages and we are ready to proceed with this project at this time, so -- De Weerd: Thank you. Smith: And any consideration that would help Mr. Everett out would certainly be beneficial to both the city, as well as the Ada County Highway District. De Weerd: Well, I appreciate your diligence with that. Mr. Everett, do you have any comments? Everett: No. De Weerd: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Smith. Okay. Council, we will probably need to take action on this. Brad, do you have a staff recommendation? Meridian City Council October 14, 2003 Page 6 of 45 Watson: Madam President, at this point I think my recommendation, given this very, very unique situation, would be that we wouldn't object to it, to a connection to the city sewer. De Weerd: Okay. Nary: Madam President? De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: I think we had a similar request not very long ago from the lady that lives across the street from the Ponderosa Elementary on Ustick and we said no. I mean I don't -- I mean I understand, I sympathize with what Mr. Everett's concerns are, but he is surrounded by the city. He lives right on Locust Grove where a major developmental is happening and the sewer runs in front of his house, I don't see how we can justify not annexing into the city. I know -- I know for a fact we have had issues to our neighbors to the east on due on sale types of transactions in trying to enforce later these situations where people look to the sewer, with an agreement to annex when they sold their property and now they are in litigation over that. So, I sympathize, again, with his request, but I can't support that. De Weerd: Well, I just feel that this is not similar to that other one. The other one her system was failing, she had to do something different. He is not asking us to go in and take the land his system is on and that is the situation he faced. He has a working system and because of the right-of-way acquisition for this road improvement that this city desperately needs, we are forcing him into that situation and I know we have done similar acts of providing services and allowing them to be annexed when they are contiguous. I think this is an unusual circumstance that would merit consideration and that's my personal view on it. Bird: Madam President? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: I don't know what hardship there is to coming to the city for Mr. Everett. I do agree he's getting paid for his right-of-way money -- land, but he's -- ACHD is doing it. I agree with Councilman Nary to the point of there is no time limit that he will be annexed and if he sells, the people that buy it might not want to come into the city and then, we face a lawsuit, as the people to the east are finding out right now. We have turned down other people for this on this same kind of request. I know this is a little bit different. I would have to see the hardship that it would cause him to come into the city. I just don't understand what the hardship would be or if we had a times table. I mean this could go on for 30 years using our sewer and not being annexed to the city and then, you know, he sells part or all of the property and they say, no, no, no, we are not going to be annexed, what do you do? Meridian City Council October 14, 2003 Page 7 of 45 De Weerd: I guess you could consider a limit to allow transitional and again, you know, this is not a situation being created by himself, this is a situation being created by the growth in our community and the critical need of extending this roadway across the freeway, so -- Powell: Madam President? De Weerd: Anna. Powell: If I might add a little information to your discussion, I think it might be helpful. The piece of property is located behind the police training facility and behind where the police station is and the training and it's a large parcel of ground. It is designated as commercial in the Comprehensive Plan, so it's not just an individual single family, so when that does change hands, it's likely to be back before you for a commercial subdivision. It is a fairly large piece of property or a commercial Conditional Use Permit or a planned development. De Weerd: And there will be a significant impact to the property owner annexing it as far as property taxes and that sort of thing. Again, this isn't his choosing and if we don't have a designated use, we don't like to annex without consideration of what will be there. So, again, special circumstances, in my humble opinion. Any other discussion? Nary: Madam President, maybe Mr. Everett wants to answer Mr. Bird's question about what the hardship is particularly. De Weerd: Mr. Everett, would you like to comment? You don't have to if you don't want to. If you will step forward. We do need it on public record. If you will state your name. Everett: Marvin Everett. I live on South Locust Grove Road. De Weerd: Thank you. Everett: I would say the biggest part would be the taxes on the agricultural ground that I'm farming and been farming it since 1970 but that's the only thing I could say. De Weerd: Mr. Everett, then, are you continuing to work your ground -- Everett: Yes. De Weerd: -- at this point? So, if we annex it in it would -- it would not be an agricultural use, is that right, Anna? Powell: Madam President, if you annex it, you have to give it some sort of zoning. We don't have agricultural zoning. It would be most appropriate to give it something consistent with the Comp Plan designation, so that would be C-G or C-C. Meridian City Council October 14, 2003 Page 8 of 45 De Weerd: And there would be tremendous burden. Any other questions? Bird: Mr. Everett, how long has your septic system been in? Everett: Been in? Bird: Uh-huh. Everett: Since I moved there in 1970. Bird: 1970. So, it's been in use about 33 years? Everett: Yes. De Weerd: And this is just going into the drain field, a portion of the drain field? Everett: Right. De Weerd: Okay, and Central District Health is not allowing to extend or redirect that drainage field? Everett: Because of the sewer line to that subdivision across the street. De Weerd: Right. Okay. Any other questions for Mr. Everett? Okay. Thank you. Everett: Thank you. De Weerd: Okay. I guess we are at a place where I need a motion. Nary: Madam President? De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: Let me ask Mrs. Powell -- I understand what you said about designating the zone most consistently with the Comprehensive Plan, so -- so that I guess I understand before we make a decision, you're saying that Mr. Everett can't continue to farm his property if we annex it? Powell: No. He could still continue to farm it, it's just that I -- I don't have a full understanding of the taxing code that they use, but I think if it were zoned a commercial property, regardless of the fact if he were farming it. They might -- or they would probably still tax it as commercial property, but I'm not sure exactly. Nary: Well, but -- okay. Yeah. I guess maybe you would want to know. As I say, I think -- I mean I think you're right, I think they would, because it's developable property that's commercial, but he also as the ability to go to the board of equalization and request an Meridian City Council October 14, 2003 Page 9 of 45 adjustment based on the fact he is farming the property. So I mean I don't know that it's -- how much it's going to impact him or not. Powell: That's true. The only other consideration would be that we do -- or in the past the Council has not pre-zoned property -- that will be an issue later tonight as well, putting a commercial zoning on a fairly large piece of property without any development plan is something we typically don't do, so that would be another consideration. Nary: We could even zone it A open. Powell: We don't have an A open. Nary: We don't have an open. Nichols: Madam President? De Weerd: Mr. Nichols. Nichols: Madam President, Members of the Council, the assessor's office will assess the property according to its highest and best use. They will look at the zoning and determine what the highest and best use is. So, they would look at 20 acres, the zoning is C-G, and determine that its highest and best use was a commercial property and so it would be -- I would expect, anyway, a significant increase in the valuation of that parcel, which would result in a significant increase in taxes. Bird: Madam President? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: May I ask Mr. Nichols a question? Mr. Nichols, can we -- if we were to do this, can we put a time on it -- legally put a time and limit the time on it where we can review it and I'm not saying -- like review it every couple three years or something like that, to see what it's doing or is that -- Nichols: Madam President, Members of the Council, what we typically see happen is -- is we require the consent to annexation during the agreement, which can include in it terms and conditions at which the annexation would be triggered. You could do that in a time period. You have done it before with parcels that are not contiguous to -- because of the location of the sewer, Central District Health, would deny a permit on a drain field, which is a similar situation to Mr. Everett’s, so, if you can -- can limit it. We also have some circumstances, I believe, in which we have had consent to annexation agreements and those have been recorded, but, then, the question became who is going to file the petition for annexation and who is going to pay that application fee and those sorts of things. More recently, I believe he asked that -- most circumstances people pay that fee up front, even pay it up front, even though they are not contiguous yet, but we are expecting them to be at some point in the future. Then, it's held in the Meridian City Council October 14, 2003 Page 10 of 45 file and held in abeyance. So, I think you might be able to have a solution, even though the limit here -- we didn't have it there in advance. Would it guarantee you against a lawsuit like the City of Boise is facing over there with a written consent? No. No guarantee. But particularly where this is a situation where he is receiving something in exchange for the deferral, at that time I think a court would be hard pressed to overturn that consent. Nary: Madam President? De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: Yeah. I guess the only way that we could -- that I could feel comfortable in doing this, is that it's not a time limit for review. I think there has to be a definite time limit and that -- what that number is -- I think the onus has to be on Mr. Everett. I think that the situation has to be his application, his request, you know, not the next property owner. So, if he sells his property within whatever that time limit is, prior to sale he has to make that request, not the next owner. So, at least that that -- and, again, like Mr. Nichols said, a court would have a difficult time, I think, in not enforcing the agreement that the city had with him to do that, but I think there has to be a limit. I mean it can't go on for ten years or 15 years. I'm thinking no more than five. I mean five -- I think five years is probably more than reasonable to have a time period that Mr. Everett can consider what he can do with his property if he has a definite time in which to make some decisions and if he were to sell his property in less than five years, that prior to sale he would have to come in and request annexation and there would be some triggering mechanism to do that, but that gives him time for that roadway to get constructed and for whatever other developments that may occur there. I think that's at least as far out as reasonably I think that this Council could be and we -- are there any concerns with this long-term agreement in the future, Mr. Nichols? Do you think that would be a problem for us to have this agreement? Nichols: Councilman Nary, Mayor -- or Madam President, Members of the Council, I think the issue is a little different than what it used to be, in that one of the things now that a property owner that sells property, to have to identify to the purchaser whether it is subject to a consent to annexation agreement. It's part of the affirmative seller's property disclosure, which was not in place when properties were sold in southwest Boise, Ada County, area that were subject to consent to annexation. So, that's one issue. In terms of the deferral of action as some -- as being something that might put the agreement at jeopardy, I don't think so. I think it's an accessible give and take under the circumstances. De Weerd: Mr. Everett, do you understand what's being proposed? Everett: Not really. De Weerd: If -- who best to explain it? I guess Mr. Nary. Mr. Everett, if you would come and join us up here in front. Meridian City Council October 14, 2003 Page 11 of 45 Nary: Mr. Everett, what we are contemplating, I guess, is granting your request to allow you to hook to the city sewer system and not annex you at this time, with the contingency that in exchange for you having that deferral to annexation like you're asking, that you would have five years in which you would have to -- at the end of that five years, if you still own that property, you would have to annex into the city at that point. If you sold the property between now and the next five years, at that point, if you're going to sell it, you would have to annex it into the city. So, if either one of those contingencies occurred, but the outside limit would be five years, so you would have -- the intent is that that bridge and overpass, which is supposed to be completed within those five years, so I guess our -- my intent -- and if the rest of the Council agrees, is that, hopefully, give you as much time as possible to decide about whether or not you want to continue farming or sell your property. Or do something different with it in some fashion, but it would be five years and the reason for that is that we don't want to have this consent to annexation out there for a really lengthy period of time, because other cities have had problems in trying to annex those people later. Normally, we wouldn't grant any extension at all. I mean other situations similar, but a little different from your request, we haven't allowed that, we have made them annex now, but Councilmember de Weerd and Mr. Nichols and planning staff have raised some issues with your situation that is a little different than the other ones and so that's what we are contemplating is to allow that. What do you think? Everett: Well, that would be all right. I was kind of wishing it would be a little bit longer than five years, because that's not very long, five years. I plan on staying there longer than that, but you never know. I'd rather see it ten years, instead of five. De Weerd: Okay. Well, anymore questions or comments? Thank you. Okay. Council -- and I don't know where you came up with the number of years, Bill, but I guess, again, looking at the circumstances and, let's see, the overpass is 2007, which is four years down the road, you almost force him to sell his property before he's ready to give it up. I don't know. I -- where we are talking one piece of property that ten years, allow him to maintain the integrity and the use, that we at least know within that ten year period it will be put into the use that it is designed for in the Comprehensive Plan, without -- without infringing on his property rights. Bird: Madam President? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: You know, your -- the first thing we are doing is setting a precedence. The five years I think is very fair. I hope that -- I mean this is the third extension of that Locust Grove Road overpass that I have heard in the last three days, so I don't -- it was '05 and, then, it was '06 and, then, it's '07. I think that by -- I think that by the years is pretty good timing that we would give, because I believe that you set a precedence that could come back to bite you and I can buy -- I can, like Mr. Nary, I could buy the five year time limit and go for that, but I certainly can't buy anymore time on it. Meridian City Council October 14, 2003 Page 12 of 45 Nary: Madam President? De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: You know, the other side of the coin is a year from now -- I don't how long a 33 year old septic system is going to last. A year from now -- I mean if Mr. -- the only difference here is the widening of this roadway. If Mr. Everett was here because his draining system failed, we wouldn't think twice about it and we would probably make him annex now. De Weerd: Correct. Nary: So, you know, the circumstances here are not real unique. I think if we -- I guess the only other thing, if Council wanted to do it, we could certainly -- if we are going to make an agreement with Mr. Everett of a five year limitation, we certainly can allow future councils to extend that agreement in the agreement itself and certainly they would have the ability, but that's the only -- there was no magic to five. Actually, I was thinking three. But five was, I guess, my assumption that maybe in five years one of us would be sitting here still and remember why we would do that. But I certainly don't have, I guess, a big concern of allowing that within this agreement, but, understand, I don't -- I mean I understand the hardship Mr. Everett is talking about, but, honestly, if his drain system failed, we wouldn't have thought twice. De Weerd: Well, I appreciate that and I would entertain a motion. Nary: Madam President? De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: I guess I would move that we enter into negotiations to formulate an agreement with Mr. Everett to grant his request to attach to the city sewer system at this time, with an agreement to -- for consent to annex within the next five years or prior to sale of his property. The agreement can also contain a clause that would allow future Council to extend that agreement up to an additional five years at their desire. Bird: Before I second it, Bill, I got a question. Bill, does this include all the property or a piece of the property or -- I mean like on 20 acres, if I sell ten -- if I sell any part of it -- Nary: I think it has to be to the entire property. On any part of that entire property. Bird: I will second that, then. De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve the request and instruct staff to work out an agreement per the stated motion. Mr. Clerk will you call roll. Meridian City Council October 14, 2003 Page 13 of 45 Roll Call: McCandless, yea; Nary, yea; de Weerd, yea; Bird, yea. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 5: (Items Moved from Consent Agenda) D. Resolution No. : Approving Addendum No. 1 to Agreement with Boise City for City Prosecutor / Criminal Legal Services: De Weerd: Okay. We have pulled Item D from the Consent Agenda to discuss under number five -- or number five and that is to discuss Resolution No. 03-414, approving the Addendum No. 1 to agreement with Boise City for City Prosecutor / Criminal Legal Services. Nary: Madam President? De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: Since I work for the office that's the beneficiary of this contract, even though I don't receive any benefit from it, I'm going to refuse myself from voting on this particular contract. De Weerd: Thank you. Bird: Madam President? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: I had some questions on it and Mr. Nary was -- I will say this publicly, is nice enough to go -- they asked for a six percent increase in their services, their basic services, which they had to hire some other attorneys, and there was a one-time pay in one of the -- of $1,076 for the city and, then, our program was still intact. I think it's very good, so feel very confident with the resolution. I did have questions on the six percent increase, but Mr. Nary did explain it sufficiently to me. De Weerd: Thank you. Are you prepared with a motion? Bird: Yeah. If I have got the -- 03-414. De Weerd: Yes. Bird: Madam President, I would move that we approve Resolution 03-414, approving Addendum No. 1 to the agreement with Boise City for City Prosecutor / Criminal Legal Services, with the suspension of rules. Meridian City Council October 14, 2003 Page 14 of 45 McCandless: Second. De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve Resolution 03-414. Mr. Clerk, will you call roll. Oh, I'm sorry. Yes. No, I don't think you need to. Roll Call: McCandless, yea; Nary, yea; de Weerd, yea; Bird, yea. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 6: Ordinance No. : Amending Ordinance 03-1024 Adopting the 2002 National Electrical Code and Additions and Exceptions: De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Before we move to item number six, we have had a couple of changes on our agenda. I know several of you have been here since we adopted the agenda. Item seven has been continued for one week to October 21st . Item 11 has been -- will be continued for one week to October 21st. Items 12, 13, and 14, as well, will be continued for one week and Item 25 -- or 21 will be moved to November 25th . So, if you are here for any of those items, if you can join us at the specified date, we will see you, then. Okay. Item number six, Ordinance No. 03-1047, Amend Ordinance 03-1024, adopting the 2002 National Electrical Code and Additions and Exceptions. Mr. Clerk, will you, please, read this ordinance by title only? Berg: Thank you, Madam President, Members of the Council. Ordinance Number 03- 1047, an Ordinance of the City of Meridian, Idaho, amending Ordinance Number 03- 1024, Electrical Code, adopting the National Electrical Code of 2002 and to amend Section 10-3-4, Permits, required application, issuance of the Meridian City Code of the City of Meridian to provide for language which was inadvertently left out of the original ordinance, to provide for validity, penalty, severability, conflict, savings clause, and effective date. De Weerd: Okay. You have heard the reading of Ordinance 03-1047 by title only. Is there anyone who would like to have it read in its entirety? Hearing none, Council? McCandless: Madam President? De Weerd: Mrs. McCandless. McCandless: I move that we approve Ordinance Number 03-1047, amending Ordinance 03-1024, and adopting the 2002 National Electrical Code and Additions and Exceptions, with suspension of rules. Nary: Second. De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve Ordinance 03-1047. Mr. Clerk, will you call roll. Meridian City Council October 14, 2003 Page 15 of 45 Roll Call: McCandless, yea; Nary, yea; de Weerd, yea; Bird, yea. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 7: Ordinance No. : Amending Ordinance 03-1033 Correcting the legal description for AZ 00-026 Bear Creek Subdivision No. 6 (fka / approved as Kodiak Development): De Weerd: Okay. Item seven has been requested to be continued to the 21st. Bird: Madam President, I'd move that we table ordinance -- for amending the ordinance of 03-1033, correcting the legal description of AZ 00-026, Bear Creek Subdivision No. 6, formerly approved as Kodiak Development, until October 21st, 2003. McCandless: Second. De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to table Item number seven. All those in favor say aye. Okay. All ayes. Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 8: Ordinance No. : Amending Ordinance 03-1037 AZ 03-012 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 24.004 acres from R1 to R-2 zones for Carol Subdivision by The City of Meridian – west of North Eagle Road and south of East Ustick Road De Weerd: Okay. Item number eight, Ordinance 03-1048, amending Ordinance 03- 1037, AZ 03-012, request for Annexation and Zoning of 24.004 acres from R-1 to R-2 zones for Carol Subdivision by the City of Meridian. Mr. Clerk, will you, please, read this by title only? Berg: Thank you, Madam President, Members of the Council. I will apologize if I mess up somebody's name, because this is one of those lengthy ordinances. Ordinance number 03-1048, an ordinance finding that the owners of certain real property, William W. Calhoun and Sherri D. Calhoun, husband and wife, Russel E. and Dorris E. Martin, husband and wife, Frank E. Youngstrom and Barbara L. Youngstrom, husband and wife, Dieter W. Wisemann and Celia P. Wisemann, husband and wife, Walter R. Johnson and Virginia L. Johnson, husband and wife, Dennis G. Brockway and Mary Louise Brockway, trustees for the DMB Family Trust, Douglas J. Mellor and Ra Nae Olson Mellor, husband and wife, William H. Ball and Mary Lynne Ball, husband and wife, Marlin R. Glaesemann and Beverly J. Glaesemann, husband and wife, Raymond J. Kane and Judy L. Kane, husband and wife, Maureen E.W. Boyd, a married person as her sole and separate property, Connee M. Bentley, an unmarried person as her sole and separate property, Walter C. Williams and Roberta J. Williams, husband and wife, Julie A. Brandt, an unmarried woman, James F. Hatmaker and Patsy Y. Hatmaker, Meridian City Council October 14, 2003 Page 16 of 45 husband and wife, Telford C. Brock, Jr., and Charlyn M. Brock, husband and wife, Kent R. Smith and Tami P. Smith, husband and wife, Janine L. Helms, a single person, James A. Lau and Linda M. Lau, husband and wife, Gerry R. Morisette and Helen J. Morisette, husband and wife, Clifford E. Bissell and Phyllis S. Bissell, as co-trustees of the Clifford and Phyllis Bissell Trust under Trust Agreement dated January 14, 1991, and their substitutes and successors as trustee there under, and Bruce A. Dyer and Stella L. Dyer, husband and wife, is generally located west of North Eagle Road and South of East Ustick Road, Meridian, Idaho, which is known as Carol Subdivision and which lies contiguous or adjacent to the city limits of the City of Meridian, County of Ada, State of Idaho, have made a request for annexation in writing to the Council, that said land be annexed to the City of Meridian and zoning designated Rural Low Density Residential District (R-2), and declaring that said land, by proper legal description as described below, be a part of the City of Meridian, County of Ada, State of Idaho, repealing all ordinances, resolutions, orders, or parts thereof, in conflict herewith, and directing the City Engineer to add said property to the official maps of the City of Meridian, Idaho, and directing the Clerk of the City of Meridian to file a certified copy of the ordinance and map of the areas to be annexed with the Ada County Recorder, Auditor, Treasurer, and Assessor and the State Tax Commission of the State of Idaho, pursuant to Idaho Code Section 50-223 and Section 63-2215. De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Berg. You have heard the reading of Ordinance 03-1048 by title only. Is there anyone who would like to hear it read in its entirety? Thank you. Any discussion? Nary: Madam President? De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: This might be a hyper-technical question, but I know one of these people in this list, when we passed this ordinance originally, is one of our mayoral candidates and I don't believe his property is in this revision. Bird: Yeah, it is. Walter R. Johnson. Nary: Oh, it's in the revision part, too? Bird: Yes. Nary: Okay. Because I don't know how that impacts -- since I think the state codes say you have to be -- you have to be a qualified electorate at the time of election. If we pass this ordinance tonight with these revisions, I'm assuming that these -- Nichols: Madam President, Members of the Council, after the first ordinance was prepared, I think we had one or two parcels that were off and I don't believe that Mr. Johnson's parcel was one of them, so I don't see that as an issue that would affect his candidacy for mayor with this ordinance. Meridian City Council October 14, 2003 Page 17 of 45 Nary: I'm just wondering if his parcel isn't -- if his parcel is already annexed pursuant to the prior ordinance, the one that we are amending, 1037, does he need to be a part of this ordinance? Nichols: And, Councilman Nary, he is. His full name is Walter R. Johnson, not Jim Johnson as he is listed in this one. Nary: Right. I know he is, but I'm saying does he need to be in this one. If his property legal description hasn't changed from the prior ordinance we approved, because, like I said, I don't want it to be an issue for anybody, but if -- it seems to me that if we approve him in this ordinance, then, the argument is that he isn't part of the city until this is approved and, thereafter, he isn't a qualified electorate on election day, and he isn't able to run for mayor any longer. If he doesn't need to be here, then, maybe we should take him out of it. If his property is already done and the legal description for his parcel hasn't changed, so that the prior ordinance that we approved was sufficient for him, that maybe we need to set this over to fix that, so that's not an issue. That's my only concern. Nichols: Okay. Councilman Nary, Council President, Members of the Council, Section 5 says ordinances, resolutions, orders or parts thereof in conflict herewith, are hereby repealed and annulled. Since he was annexed before, he is annexed again. There is nothing in this ordinance that this conflicts with that prior annexation, it just simply cleans up the differences between the two of them. Nary: I understand. I guess my question is if we took him out of this ordinance, would that affect him? It doesn't appear to affect him and, therefore, it's not an issue for anyone to claim that he wasn't annexed at the time. That's my only thought and if we need to set this over a week, that won't make any difference, technically, anyway, because -- because this clean-up is -- it doesn't matter whether it's this week or next week. I'm just -- I just don't want anybody to make that an issue and it is a hyper technical thing, but, you know, I read about people writing a letter in Kuna and it's a political for somebody or -- you know, if anything become an issue, I don't think it's fair to anybody, so I just thought if it is not part of this -- if it is not necessary for this ordinance, then, maybe we should take him out, because it isn't necessary, he's already annexed in. It's done. Nichols: Members of the Council, I would recommend that you defer this until next week and we will have an answer. De Weerd: And Will will get to read it again. Berg: Thank you, Madam President. Nary: Madam President? Meridian City Council October 14, 2003 Page 18 of 45 De Weerd: Okay. Nary: I'd move that we table item -- or Ordinance No. 03-1048, amending -- De Weerd: We will withdraw the number. Nary: Okay. I guess I would move to table the ordinance amending Ordinance 03- 1037, regarding the Carol Subdivision be continued to the 21st of October. Bird: Second. McCandless: Second. De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to table Item eight to October 21st , regarding the amending Ordinance 03-1037. All those in favor say aye. Okay. All ayes. Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 9: Ordinance No. : Amending Ordinance 03-1039 Adopting the 2000 Edition International Fire Code: De Weerd: Okay. Ordinance No. 03-1048, amending Ordinance 03-1039, adopting the 2000 Edition International Fire Code and, Mr. Clerk, will you, please, begin by reading this by title only. Berg: Thank you, Madam Present, Members of the Council. Ordinary No. 03-1048, an Ordinance amending Ordinance No. 03-1029, an ordinance of the City of Meridian, Idaho, amending Ordinance No. 03-1039, Fire Code Ordinance adopting the International Fire Code 2000, to amend subsection 104.1, general, of the 10-4-2 in the Meridian City Code of the City of Meridian, to provide for relettering of the A through H subsection to lettering of A-G, to provide for validity, penalty, severability, conflict, safety clause, and an effective date. De Weerd: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Clerk. You have heard the reading of Ordinance 03- 1048. Is there anyone who would like to have it read in its entirety? Okay. Hearing none, Council? Nary: Madam President? De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: I would move the approval of Ordinance No. 03-1048, amending Ordinance 03- 1039, adopting the 2000 Edition of the International Fire Code and pursuant to Idaho Code, with suspension of rules. Meridian City Council October 14, 2003 Page 19 of 45 McCandless: Second. De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve Ordinance 03-1048. Mr. Clerk, roll call. Roll Call: McCandless, yea; Nary, yea; de Weerd, yea; Bird, yea. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 10: TE 03-006 Request for a Time Extension for filing of the Final Plat for Sundance Place Subdivision No. 1 by Engineering Solutions, LLP – east of North Meridian Road and north of East Ustick Road: De Weerd: Okay. Item 10, request for time extension for filing of the final plat for Sundance Place Subdivision No. 1 by Engineering Solutions, LLP. We will start with staff comments. Powell: Madam President, Members of the Council, it's a pretty straight forward time extension. It was originally approved on November 19th, 2002. I do believe they have an application in the process, it just won't be done in time for it to meet that deadline, so staff is recommending approval of this time extension for their plat. De Weerd: Okay. Any questions for staff? Does the applicant have any comment? Okay. I'll entertain a motion. Bird: Madam President? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: I move that we approve the request for time extension for filing of the final plat For Sundance Place Subdivision No. 1 by Engineering Solutions, LLP, east of North Meridian Road and north of East Ustick Road for a period of one year to 10/14/04. Nary: Second. De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve the request for time extension. All those in favor say aye. Okay. All ayes. Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 11: Continued Public Hearing from September 23, 2003: ZOA 03-002 Request for Amendments to Sign Ordinance: De Weerd: Item number 11 was questioned to continue this Public Hearing to October 21st. Do I have a motion? Meridian City Council October 14, 2003 Page 20 of 45 Bird: Madam President? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: I move we continue the Public Hearing for ZOA 03-002, request for Amendments to the Sign Ordinance to October 21st, 2003. McCandless: Second. De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to continue item number 11 to October 21st , 2003. All those in favor say aye. Okay. All ayes. Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 12: Public Hearing: AZ 03-015 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 9.8 acres from RUT to R-8 zones for proposed Sageland Planned Development by Quasar Development, LLC – northeast corner of South Locust Grove Road and East Victory Road: Re-noticed for October 14, 2003 City Council meeting due to plat changes Item 13: Public Hearing: PP 03-020 Request for revised Preliminary Plat approval of 41 building lots and 9 other lots on 10.64 acres in a proposed R-8 zone for proposed Sageland Planned Development by Quasar Development, LLC – northeast corner of South Locust Grove Road and East Victory Road: Re-noticed for October 14, 2003 City Council meeting due to plat changes Item 14: Public Hearing: CUP 03-036 Request for Conditional Use Permit for a Planned Development with a private neighborhood park in an R-8 zone for proposed Sageland Planned Development by Quasar Development – northeast corner of South Locust Grove Road and East Victory Road: Re- noticed for October 14, 2003 City Council meeting due to plat changes De Weerd: Okay. Items No. 12, 13, and 14 need to -- or by staff request to be continued until the 21st. Mr. Clerk, do I need to open each one? Okay. Okay. Item number 12, Public Hearing on AZ 03-015, request for Annexation and Zoning of 9.8 acres from RUT to R-8 zones for proposed Sageland Planned Development. I will open the Public Hearing and it has been requested to continue. Nary: You can open all three of them. De Weerd: Okay. If that's okay with Council? Okay. We will open Public Hearing PP 03-020, request for revised Preliminary Plat approval of 41 building lots and nine other lots on 10.64 acres in a proposed R-8 zone for Sageland Planned Development and I will open item number 14, Public Hearing CUP 03-036, request for a Conditional Use Meridian City Council October 14, 2003 Page 21 of 45 Permit for a planned development with a private neighborhood park in an R-8 zone for the proposed Sageland Planned Development Nary: Madam President? De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: I'd move that we continue Items 12, 13, and 14, AZ 03-015, PP 03-020, and CUP 03-036, all for the Sageland Planned Development, to our October 21st, 2003 meeting. Bird: Second. De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to continue Public Hearing on 12, 13 and 14 to October 21st . All those in favor say aye. Okay. All ayes. Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 15: Public Hearing: AZ 03-019 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 16 acres from RUT to R-8 zones for proposed Highgate Subdivision by Harris Homes, LLC - 2700 North Meridian Road: Item 16: Public Hearing: PP 03-023 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 74 building lots and 10 other lots on 15.68 acres in a proposed R-8 zone for proposed Highgate Subdivision by Harris Homes, LLC – 2700 North Meridian Road: Item 17: Public Hearing: CUP 03-039 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for single-family residential Planned Development with a mix of attached and detached housing in a proposed R-8 zone for proposed Highgate Subdivision by Harris Homes, LLC – 2700 North Meridian Road De Weerd: If it's okay with Council, I'll open Items 15, 16, and 17 at the same time. Nary: Sure. De Weerd: Okay. I will open Public Hearing AZ 03-019, request for Annexation and Zoning of 16 acres from RUT to R-8 zones for the proposed Highgate Subdivision; the Public Hearing for PP 03-023, request for Preliminary Plat approval of 74 building lots and ten other lots on 15.58 acres in a proposed R-8 zone for the proposed Highgate Subdivision, and Item 17, Public Hearing on CUP 03-039, request for a Conditional Use Permit for single family residential planned development with a mix of attached and detached houses in a proposed R-8 zone for the proposed Highgate Subdivision. We will open with staff comments. Powell: Madam President, Members of the Council, this property is located off of Meridian Road, recently approved subdivisions around it include Clearbrook, which was Meridian City Council October 14, 2003 Page 22 of 45 property that was already annexed just west of the site, and Silhouette Subdivision, which was recently preliminary platted that's to the northwest corner, kind of. This one wraps around that site. You have got Fothergill Subdivision and Bedford Place Subdivision. The property currently has two homes on it, I believe. This will be removed as part of the subdivision. This is the Preliminary Plat of the subdivision. They are proposing a mix of units. The attached units are generally done here. There are an odd number of lots, so the largest lot here in the corner will have a single family detached home on it. This area will have all single family detached homes on it. These homesites tend to run 4,000 to 5,000 square foot and these are -- I'm sorry. Four thousand to 4,500 and the detached lots tend to run in the 5,000 square foot range. This is the landscape plan. They are proposing to landscape along the Onweiler Canal, a little bit along the slough or -- yeah. The slough and then, along the front and then, there is one open space lot within the subdivision that will also have a tot lot on it. This is an example of their detached homes and this is an example of the attached homes. These are just related to -- we want to make sure that the product type actually fit on the lots. There was some concern at the Planning and Zoning Commission over requested setbacks and this was used to show that there might be some problems on a corner lot, allowing the garage to be too close to the front lot line, which is a good segway into the Planning and Zoning Commission hearing. The applicant's representative, Ashley Ford, testified in favor of the application. There were also some concerns from some of the surrounding property owners in the Fothergill and Bedford Subdivision -- Bedford Place about the height of the structures here backing onto them. They wanted to have them limited to one story. The Planning Commission considered the testimony, but went ahead and allowed the full height that's allowed by the zone. The key issues -- the other key issues of discussion were the pathway and landscaping along the north of the project and that is still an issue for the Council to consider. Later in the agenda you have a request from -- well, it was actually tabled, but the Silhouette Subdivision is working with Nampa-Meridian to waive the requirement to tile that. The Highgate Subdivision has said, basically, whatever Silhouette Subdivision is doing, we will continue that along our property as well. They did discuss the setback modifications requested by the application and they did decide not to grant the reduced front yard setback up to ten feet for garages. They discussed the phasing of the project and there was also discussion about whether the city should adopt a new zoning district to allow for smaller frontages, just because we see a lot of requests now for those smaller frontages and also lot size and setbacks. There were a number of changes from staff recommendation and we have gone and we have received a revised plat and a revised landscape plan and we have checked those and got back with the application and they are in agreement with our comments. I believe you have an e-mail to that effect between Ms. Ford and I. That was the outstanding issue on your summary sheet, which is that we hadn't received those, but Steve Siddoway was able to go through that with Ashley before he left. So, I think it comes forward to you at this point with a recommendation from the Planning and Zoning Commission for approval and staff concerns have all been addressed. De Weerd: Thank you, Anna. Any questions for staff at this time? Meridian City Council October 14, 2003 Page 23 of 45 Bird: I have none. De Weerd: Okay. Is the applicant here? This is a Public Hearing. Do you swear that the testimony you provide is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Ford: I do. De Weerd: Please state your name and address. Ford: Good evening, Madam President, Members of the Council, my name is Ashley Ford, I'm the Director of Planning for Hubble Engineering at 701 South Allen Street in Meridian. I'm here tonight representing Peter Harris and David Alcox of Harris Homes. Essentially, I have very few comments to add. We are in agreement with staff's recommendations and comments. As she said, she did give you a copy of the e-mail. Any outstanding issues will be addressed in the final plat. Most of them are just plat notes that need to be modified slightly and we will continue to work with staff to make sure everything is perfect. We feel that we have provided the highest and best use on the site. It's a very difficult site, being bordered by the Onweiler to the north and the South Slough to the south and to the east. We have worked very hard to maintain the integrity of the Comprehensive Plan, which calls for medium high density and to provide compatibility with the surrounding neighbors. I'm just here to answer any questions that you may have this evening and offer some further insight of why we did what we did, if you have that need. De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Council, any questions? Okay. Ford: Okay. Thank you. De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. This is a Public Hearing. Is there anyone here who would like to provide testimony on this application? Okay. Council, discussion? Bird: Madam President? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: Hearing no more public testimony, I would move that we close the Public Hearing on AZ 03-019, request for Annexation and Zoning, PP 03-023, request for Preliminary Plat approval, and CUP 03-039, request for a Conditional Use Permit, all for Highgate Subdivision by Harris Homes, LLC, 2700 North Meridian Road. Nary: Second. De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to close the Public Hearing on Items 15, 16, and 17. All those in favor say aye. Okay. All ayes. Motion carried. Meridian City Council October 14, 2003 Page 24 of 45 MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. De Weerd: Discussion? Nary: Madam President? De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: I guess I have one question. In looking at what this says, talking about on Meridian Road and all of that, I know there is a -- I don't remember -- and maybe someone else does, but the plan is to widen that roadway. Does anybody know when that is forecasted for? I just assume that it's somewhere in the future, I just don't know how far. I know we get a lot of comments from people about that roadway. De Weerd: I do know there is an intersection improvement scheduled for that within the five year work plan, but I don't recall a -- if it was recently widened or improved there. Nary: Okay. De Weerd: And that is where one of the intersection improvements and signalizations were scheduled. Nary: I do recall that. That's good. Thank you. De Weerd: Okay. Any other comments? Okay. Anna, did you have anything further? Powell: I can add just a little bit of clarification. There is nothing in the ACHD five year work plan that -- it is three lanes for now and they do intend to keep it that way. The applicant did set aside extra right of way in the eventuality that it could or would be increased, so they did -- they have two landscape lots, basically, in the front, one that could be dedicated, if that's -- Nary: Thank you. De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. If there is no further discussion, I would entertain a motion. Bird: Madam President? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: I move we approve AZ 03-019, request for Annexation and Zoning of 16 acres from RUT to R-8 zones for proposed Highgate Subdivision by Harris Homes, LLC, 2700 North Meridian Road and incorporate all staff, Planning and Zoning, and applicant testimony, and for the attorney to draw up Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision of Order. Meridian City Council October 14, 2003 Page 25 of 45 Nary: Second. Corrie: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve AZ 03-019. Mr. Clerk, roll call. Roll Call: McCandless, yea; Nary, yea; de Weerd, yea; Bird, yea. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. De Weerd: Okay. Item 16. Bird: Madam President? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: Before I make a motion, I -- Anna, what's the date on the Preliminary Plat? Powell: I have August 21st , 2003. Bird: Okay. August 21st , 2003. Thank you very much, Anna. With that, Madam President, I would move that we approve PP 03-023, the Preliminary Plat approval of 74 building lots and ten other lots on 15.68 acres in a proposed R-8 zone for proposed Highgate Subdivision by Harris Homes, LLC, 2700 North Meridian Road and incorporate staff, Planning and Zoning, and applicant testimony and for the attorney to draw up Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision of Order. McCandless: Second. De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve PP 03-023. Mr. Clerk, roll call. Roll Call: McCandless, yea; Nary, yea; de Weerd, yea; Bird, yea. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. De Weerd: Okay. Item 17, CUP 03-039. Bird: Madam President? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: I would move that we approve CUP 03-039, request for a Conditional Use Permit for single family residential planned development with a mix of attached and detached housing in a proposed R-8 zone for the proposed Highgate Subdivision by Harris Homes, LLC, 2700 North Meridian Road and to incorporate staff, Planning and Zoning, Meridian City Council October 14, 2003 Page 26 of 45 and applicant comments and for the attorney to draw up Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision of Order. McCandless: Second. De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve CUP 03-039. Mr. Clerk, will you call roll. Roll Call: McCandless, yea; Nary, yea; de Weerd, yea; Bird, yea. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 18: Public Hearing: AZ 03-018 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 43.86 +/- acres from RT to C-G zones for Kissler / Cobbs / Eagy / Ruwe by BRS Architects – southwest corner and southeast corner of North Eagle Road and East Ustick Road: De Weerd: Okay. Item 18, Public Hearing on AZ 03-018, request for Annexation and Zoning of 43.86 +/- acres from RT to C-G zones for Kissler / Cobbs / Eagy /Ruwe by BRS Architects, the southwest corner and southeast corner of North Eagle Road and East Ustick Road. We will open with staff comments. Powell: Madam Chairman, Members of the Council -- Madam President, Members of the Council. I'll get this right one of these days. I'm sorry. This is an application. It's a straight annexation application with no development agreement attached to it. There are four properties represented as read off. Kissler owns this property to the east. Cobbs, Eagy and Ruwe all own property in this area here. Where to begin? Bill Strite represented all four applicants. I believe tonight there is a different representative for the Kissler property, just for your information. The Commission's discussion focused on whether a master concept plan would be required for these properties here and it was a rather lengthy discussion. Staff's intent in requiring that master concept plan was that because of the nature of the properties, if one of them developed, it could significantly affect access possibilities and coordinated circulation between the properties. The ultimate recommendation of the planning commission was to go ahead and keep the requirement for the concept plan for those properties. We did not -- staff did not originally ask for a concept plan on the Kissler property and the planning commission kept it that way. There were several of the neighboring residents of Carol Subdivision did come and testify in opposition to the proposed project and mainly they were opposed to the straight C-G zoning, they wanted to see some transitional uses and without the master -- the concept plan there was no guarantee of whether those uses would be there. Persons testifying included Mr. Thurston, Mrs. Roto, Mr. Grant, Mrs. Ruwe, who was one of the applicants and Mr. Eagy, again, one of the applicants. They were, obviously, testifying in favor of it and they did -- they were opposed to the concept plan aspect. There were no key changes to the staff recommendations. It did pretty much go forward. The outstanding issues, BRS did sent a letter on October 8th, which proposes to remove the development agreement requirement for a conceptual master Meridian City Council October 14, 2003 Page 27 of 45 plan on the six parcels, again, on the west side of Eagle Road there. Staff still states that that's absolutely critical as part of this application. Did you want to also discuss what we recommended for the Development Agreement? We did take all the Comprehensive Plan policies associated with the mixed use regional Comprehensive Plan designation and we lifted those and did request that they be put in the Development Agreement. The real -- and it's becoming more of a concern, since this application came through, is we now have requests on every single corner. You know, there is -- they have either come to us with a pre-app a couple different times or they are in the loop about this piece of property will come to you -- it's in the -- it's in the process of going to Planning and Zoning Commission, to also come in for just an annexation and no -- Annexation and Zoning, no Development Agreement, so we have this major intersection of Ustick and Eagle where all the property owners are now requesting C-G zoning and the Comprehensive Plan designation was for mixed use, it was not for straight commercial. If we get the C-G zoning, if they do a planned development, then, a portion of that property could go mixed use, but we are really losing the flexibility. We tried, through the Development Agreement on this applicant -- application to come up with some way of catching those, but the concern is that once they have the zoning, if it came to you and you were to deny something that complies strictly with the C-G zoning, that we may not be able win that argument. Excuse me, Mr. Nichols, for getting into your territory. I got a wink from him. There could be a concern over there. So, we do have a lot of concerns about that. I guess I'll leave that as the end of the staff presentation. De Weerd: Okay. Any questions for staff? Okay. This is a Public Hearing. Is the applicant here? Would you like to provide testimony? It's your turn. Excuse me. Is the testimony you provide tonight the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Terry: Hope to. De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Please state your name and address. Terry: My name is Tim Terry with BRS Architects and my address is 1010 South Allante, Boise, Idaho. I'm representing the applicant and we have had quite a round about with this particular application and the issues that are before you are instrumental in a lot of different ways. We have polled several of the neighborhood groups and have addressed some of the concerns that I think are fairly tantamount to you, as well as the staff and concerns with this are the controls within the project, the controls of how we look at the reviews and what kind of impacts this will place on the neighborhoods. We feel that the controls that we would like to see are placed pretty well and adapt to the conditional use process. I think that the concerns that I have been hearing and seeing are that -- we look at this as something that is wide open in terms of development and things that can be considered used and I think that the conditional use process prevents that from happening by the core issue of review that it gets. We did send a letter to the neighborhood in addition to the staff in addressing concerns, so it became obvious to them that there is control within this process, the conditional use process, regardless of Meridian City Council October 14, 2003 Page 28 of 45 what does take place, the conceptual plan, I think, that is a very difficult issue to face at this time and I think, as you will hear in previous testimony, and in future testimony, that the number of conceptual plans can be anywhere from 20 to 30 to 40 to 50 different uses. I have gone through one now that's approximately 25 different conceptual plans and it's very difficult until you get a reality based type of situation and when you get to those realities, it's a little easier to deal with and that's where the conditional use process takes -- takes precedence. I think we can look at that in terms of being able to have something that's real, something that has some substance to it, rather than a conceptual use look. I think that in terms of where we are going with this, we'd like to see, as addressed in the letter, several of the conditions waived. We'd like to see condition number one and two, as we stated in the letter from Bill Strite on 10/8/03, we'd like to see all future uses within the boundaries of this annexation only be approved in the conditional use process, excuse me, and we'd also like to see the conditional use process or a Conditional Use Permit, that it shall include the uses as required by the Meridian zoning ordinance. We do feel fairly strongly in regards to the concept plan. We'd like to state that categorically now at this time. I'm up here for any further questions or issues you may have. De Weerd: Council, any questions? Bird: I have none at this time. De Weerd: Okay. Not at this time. Thank you. Terry: Thank you. De Weerd: Okay. Eric Davis. Davis: Madam President, Members of the Council, Eric Davis. De Weerd: Is the testimony you provide tonight the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Davis: I swear. De Weerd: Thank you. Please state your name and address. Davis: Eric Davis. 602 Sandstone Court, Boise. I joined Jim Kissler's team about 60 days ago after this process had started and he came to me with the idea of a shopping center and wanted to help with some concepts and, you know, just options and talk things through and started to get nibbles from retailers and wanted to be in a position to respond to them when they started to ask about the rules and what the site had and didn't have and develop the process. So, I'm falling into the fold and all the while hoping that we can prevail with Annexation and Zoning, so we have got something to offer the marketplace. They are some -- you know, part and parcel to our market plan and to make the connectivity under the proposal, we had to go across the street and Meridian City Council October 14, 2003 Page 29 of 45 BRS has organized and talked to the neighbors and things have changed a little bit since then, partially due to Carol Subdivision got annexed and some of the rules are different now. In any event, when it came to us if this didn't go through, it would be probably another four to six months delay, more public hearings, to really get us back to the same point we are today and, you know, we have done the best we can with the neighbors over across the street and sympathize with their inability to come up with a concrete plan at this point in time. But what I can offer you is that, you know, I truly believe that on our side, Kissler's side, and the other piece that's going to soon be a part of it, you know, we are ready to put a team together and work with staff and the Comp Plan and the zoning ordinance and do a bang up job of it, if we can get out of the starting gate here. I don't want to get into too many of the details, because I don't know them all, but just to answer questions and I suppose if you have some questions later, if there are anymore -- and I know there are some of the neighbors that want to talk, so -- if I haven't missed anything, that will be it. Any questions for me? Thank you. De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Yes. Come on up. Do you swear the testimony you provide tonight is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you? Ruwe: Yes. De Weerd: So help you God. Ruwe: Okay. That, too. De Weerd: Thank you. Ruwe: Janet Ruwe, R-u-w-e, 2935 North Eagle Road. I am the parcel -- the furthest down on the map. That one right there and that little box is my home right now, which is in the wrong place. I'm living right on Eagle Road and 30 years ago that was a residential neighborhood and a farm community type place, and now it's totally changed and coming from a homeowner point of view, I, actually, have had somebody interested in my property, but because it was not zoned went out of state, so something that would have been a real good use I felt and I think you would have approved it, too. But, anyway, I have been in a very similar situation to this 30 years ago when the farmers were selling the property that is now Carol Subdivision, came to us with the same kind of concerns and we were not bothered by the fact that they wanted to change from a farming community right there, to one acre parcels. I feel they have been good neighbors and have not been a problem. There were two people at that time who were farmers and homeowners like we were, who objected to that and since that time that has now turned into Packard Estates and the one is the Sue and Tom Davis property, which is now going into residential homes. But I'm still there, but times have changed and I really do need for you to find your way to approve this different kind of zoning and annexation. I went along with the Kissler project, because I thought it was an avenue for all of us to get together to do the same thing at one time, but if this does not go through, I'm going to have to come back to you as an individual owner. The property to the top of me there -- I'm not sure -- I guess that would be north of me. The Eagy Meridian City Council October 14, 2003 Page 30 of 45 property. He is not going to sell or develop, but he went along with this and I do, too, because we thought it was a good time to, you know, get on the same page, have us all zoned and annexed. I do plan to sell my property and having it zoned the way I think it needs to be zoned is an asset to me. The way it is now it's residential, it's not going to sell as residential. It's not a place where some -- you live on a five lane highway right now. So, anyway, I think -- in fact, the reason we are doing this this way and saying that we realize that we do need the CUP or the Conditional Use Permit way to go is because we do realize that the Carol Subdivision, they are there and through the CUP or however you call it, process, they do get a say in anything that's happening there. The other corners, as they mentioned, I know they have been on line for getting, you know, in this same process. Those are big hunks of property, where mine is just a ten acre property and so it's really hard for me and the other party owners right on our corner there, to go together with one master plan, because we are not all -- it's not going to be developed by one person, Greg is not selling, I am, it's going to be -- I think that's almost an impossibility in the situation saying that we have to have a master plan right there, I don't see how that's really possible. That would make it that I couldn't sell my property. So, I'd ask you to look at this with an open mind and I have been a Meridian resident for many many years and I plan to say here and I just really want what's best for our community, too and living on Eagle Road we have seen the changes that have been made. They have all been good. The traffic is moving faster. They have torn down a lot of things that really shouldn't be there and I think it's a nice gateway into Meridian and I think with the CUP plan and your approval and the neighbors approval, I think things will turn out okay. So, thank you for your time. De Weerd: Thank you. Any questions? Bird: I have none. De Weerd: Okay. Okay. Is there any other testimony in favor of this application? Do you swear the testimony you provide tonight is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Orton: Yes. De Weerd: Please state your name and address. Orton: My name is Richard Orton, I'm at 460 East Linkershim here in Meridian. I'm representing Greg Eagy tonight. Mr. Eagy asked me to give some testimony in favor of the annexation, in favor of the most recent letter from BRS Architects, the conditions identified in there and specifically ask that you waive the requirement to do a concept plan. Mr. Eagy, as the other proponents of this annexation have already pointed out, believe that the Conditional Use Permit process is the appropriate control and oversight for this development, that and market forces, of course, are the appropriate control for this development in any effort to try to develop a believable, honest concept plan at this time clearly is -- that opportunity isn't here yet. You can tell by the testimony of the Meridian City Council October 14, 2003 Page 31 of 45 people around us that they haven't thought about it enough to do that. That concludes my testimony. If you have any questions I would be glad to answer them. De Weerd: Thank you. Any questions? Okay. Thank you, Mr. Orton. Orton: Thank you. De Weerd: Okay. Is there anyone else who would like to testify in favor for this application? Okay. We would entertain public comments against for those opposed. Is the testimony you provide tonight the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Thurston: Yes, it is. De Weerd: Thank you. Please state your name and address. Thurston: My name is David Thurston. I live at 1470 Leslie Way. This is my property right here. Right there on the corner. I'm one of the people who signed the roll that said that I'm opposed. I want to state that I'm not opposed to the Annexation and the Zoning of this property. I believe that all the property owners should have opportunity to develop or sell their individual properties, but the existing residential property owners must also have assurance that their interests are also addressed and protected. I support the Planning and Zoning staff recommendation that the property be annexed and C-G zoning, provided there is a development agreement between the four property owners and the City of Meridian prior to approval of the annex ordinance. This was stated very clearly in the Planning and Zoning meeting that we all attended and I think that's still very much applicable. I also support the idea that all future development and future uses within the 43.86 acres be approved through the Conditional Use Permit process. This process will require all planned development be presented to the Planning and Zoning Commission and approved by the City Council. I think that is a -- definitely an essential part of the overall plan. With all the varied interest in this property, with the current property owners and the residential property owners, I think -- I believe it is essential that there be a conceptual master plan, so that we have -- so we have an idea of the issues associated with the development will be addressed properly. The plan should demonstrate and address interconnectivity, transitional uses, which the property owners are very much interested in, the access points and other land issues that were brought up in the Planning and Zoning report. This type of a master plan will allow a planned development approach and avoid a helter-skelter development process. Planning is essential with four property owners with different plans for their property, as you have heard. I believe that the traditional uses should address and maintain the integrity of the low density residents or properties located on the western boundary. I suggest that the development plan include such things as a professional office park, maybe even a high tech business park, would be a good recommendation for that use, similar to the Carol Professional Park, which is located south on Eagle Road. As we -- as you look at the property to the south of this planned annexation, there is some property right here, right now that property has no access. I believe that Meridian City Council October 14, 2003 Page 32 of 45 once this question of Annexation and Zoning is resolved, that it needs to take into consideration that property, because this will probably be the model for that property in the future there will be additional property owners who will be very much interested in the transitional uses of that property once it's allowed to be developed. So, that's all I have. Thank you for this opportunity. De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Thurston. Any questions? Okay. Is there anyone else who would like to provide testimony? Is the testimony you provide tonight the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Grant: It is. De Weerd: Thank you. Please state your name and address. Grant: My name is Steve Grant. I live at 1534 Leslie Way. It's the third lot south of Ustick there on the east side of Leslie Way. Right there. I also would like to make sure that the Council understands that I'm not opposed to any commercial development here, I'm just -- Mr. Thurston has outlined that we want to see a plan. The Planning and Zoning Commission made that recommendation and I think it still ought to be carried forward. I have concerns. We wouldn't want to see -- the access points for that piece of property are those six parcels, has not been defined and one of the things I would not like to see is an access road along my -- the east side or the back lot line of my property. I wouldn't want to see -- I would want to see the proper transitional development occur, as Mr. Thurston has outlined, and not see something that was improper go in there, so that it would enhance the value of everybody's property, not just ours. I think there ought to be the proper barriers from the commercial development versus the residential area, which I'm sure we can incorporate it, but it's still a concern and I'm afraid that if this application is approved without a developmental plan, that it's kind of like the train that leaves the station, it's a lot harder to stop that locomotive and head it in the right direction if somebody -- if there isn't a plan to kind of control that. I think that the lack of agreement among the applicants regarding the development plan suggests this property isn't going to be developed as one piece. It's not a large piece of property and I'm not a developer, but I think there is some severe restrictions that would be imposed and the fact that Mr. Eagy has said through his representative that the middle piece of property is not going to be sold and will probably be developed differently, suggests the need for a master plan. Perhaps to convey what -- for what they have testified. I'd almost take the opposite view of them, that there ought to be a development that's been recommended, so I think my recommendation is that I hope that we would insist on this master plan or this development plan that doesn't have to be specific, but there is certain things that ought to be incorporated and in terms of access and other items, that I would recommend that you deny this until such time as that plan is forth coming. That's all I have got. De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Grant. Any questions? Thank you. Anyone else? Okay. Is Betty Russell -- Meridian City Council October 14, 2003 Page 33 of 45 Russell: I agree with everything that been -- De Weerd: Doris Martin? Martin: I agree. De Weerd: Russell Martin? R. Martin: Yes. De Weerd: Would you like to provide testimony? Okay. Powell: Madam President, if you could read off the names that you just said that agreed that -- De Weerd: Okay. For the record, there is agreement to the testimony that has been provided by Betty Russell, Doris Martin, and Russell Martin. Thank you. Nichols: Madam President? De Weerd: Mr. Nichols. Nichols: Madam President, were those individuals listed as being opposed to this development? De Weerd: They were. Yes. Bird: So, they would be agreeing with the testimony in opposition and not with all the testimony? De Weerd: Yes. With the testimony of Mr. Thurston and Mr. Grant. Okay. Powell: May I make one final comment, just so that the applicant has an opportunity to rebut. Mr. Terry did testify that he had a shopping center ready to go and I'm afraid that that's the perception that once that C-G zone goes in that it would be suitable to just do a shopping center on that property and I think that the mixed use regional did not have that kind of use in mind. My understanding of the Comp Plan would be that if just a shopping center were desired there, it would have been designated as straight commercial. So, again, it just kind of highlights the concerns that staff has about a straight C-G zoning of the property. De Weerd: Anna, I guess I would have a question for you. We discussed property to the north of that and they did bring in a conceptual, so we could look at some of the egress and ingress into that property. Powell: This property? Meridian City Council October 14, 2003 Page 34 of 45 De Weerd: No. I believe -- yeah. That property. On the Moore property and I guess we have always kind of looked for the -- and I understand that the applicant need to be able to market and be able to respond to the market, but with it surrounded by a residential -- or with residential to the west of the property line, it does underscore a philosophy that we have been operating on and that we like to see a conceptual plan how they will deal with transitioning, buffering, and the appropriate uses and I guess from the testimony we have heard, those are pretty much the reason why. My question to you is we did require that or we did receive a conceptual on the Winston Moore property; is that correct? Powell: They -- at one pre-app they showed us a concept, but they have agreed that that is not what they intend to do. The last meeting we had with them it was rather amusing, they brought in a 24-by-35 plat and the site was outlined for the boundary with absolutely nothing on it, labeled conceptual plan, so it was, I think, kind of a true expression of their idea for development of the property at this time. They just don't know. So, although they had one in the past, I think right now they really don't know what they want there. De Weerd: Council? Okay. Would the applicant like to respond to the testimony? Davis: Thank you, Madam President, Members of the Council. Eric Davis, 602 Sandstone. It's all very well taken. I mean it's a definite chicken or the egg situation here and we will have all of these piled up and I would like to think that we can at least tell a retailer that, yes, we have land that's in Meridian and it's zoned commercial, because I think it allows your use and, by the way, it's not just open territory here, we have a public process we go through, we have a Comp Plan that's in place that talks about transitional uses and all the kind of things that have to be a good neighbor and we don't want to sidestep that process. That's not what this is all about, so -- you know, we will talk about access, we have talked about a development agreement and we will sign a development agreement that has conditions in it that bring us back through the public process when the time is right. It might be this year, it might be five years. We have access control through ACHD and ITD and those can get pretty hairy in the conditions and you have seen a project with -- you know, say you can have your access, property owner A, but you have got to allow property owner B to use that and that's a condition and, you know, they -- that's been pretty effective in other places in Boise that I have worked and the transitional use concept that I think the language that BRS would put in talks about submitting ourselves to that, you know, what is a transitional use or buffer of some type. So, trying to, you know, armor plate the proposal or at least this is the best we can give of what we know today. So, I -- again, I think I can answer all of the questions that came up, with the exception of the concept plan that can be a number of things, just left up to your imagination at this point. It will be market driven and we will work everything we can to make that market driven demand meet the chase -- the challenge -- the criteria of the city and we will come before you with a plan when that day comes. Anyway, any questions? Concerns? Thank you. Meridian City Council October 14, 2003 Page 35 of 45 De Weerd: Okay. Council? Bird: Madam President? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: As I understand, the applicant has no problems with a development agreement with stipulations in it. I think that's a very typical situation and I don't believe it's -- in the six years I have been on here that I have seen before had so many different owners make application, joint application, and, you know, this application is actually split by a major road. So, I believe, like Mr. Thurston and Mr. Grant says, they are not against it, but I do believe that we need to have the stipulation and a development agreement that as bad as I hate CUP’s, they are going to have to come back with CUP’s for this kind of development and I understand where they are coming from, they need to have zoning and stuff out there if they were to market this ground and I do understand that and those corners are very good retail commercial corners, so -- but as long as they are agreeable to a development agreement with some stipulation in it, I could support it. De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: Madam President, I guess I'm a little like Mr. Bird, I'm a little torn here. I guess what concerns me here is when I look up and down Eagle Road, this corner is really all that's left of Eagle Road for any type of real significant commercial development and as Mr. Bird stated, I mean I think it's a fairly odd and unique situation we have here where we have so many owners that have banded together, but, basically, only for the purpose of annexation. I know that we are -- as Mr. Davis stated, we are always in this chicken and the egg. I mean we generally want to see the concepts, sometimes those concepts are very fluid and Silverstone we had a good example, we had a very fluid concept plan and those buildings moved around pretty freely on that property, but it was always a professional office park. The buildings might have moved, but we kind of knew what it was and I guess that's the difficulty for me in this one, is I have no idea what you want to do. To me, the marketing plan you have is that map right there. That future land use map is your marketing plan. That's what we said we would agree to as to what the zones would be. So, I guess -- I'm not a developer and wouldn't pretend to know all the nuances that you have to go through, but that's, to me, what the city has made a commitment to, to turn this property into at some point in the future. What we ask in return -- or have in the past is give us a pretty good idea of what that is and all I have heard tonight in annexation -- I guess to me what the applicant is asking and it just happens to have four applicants, rather than one, but the applicant is asking to become part of our city and what we have generally said is tell us what you're going to do with it before we agree to it. At least give us something to look at fairly strongly as to what it's going to be. We know the buildings might change. We know that footprints might move, we know that access points have to be decided and we know all that stuff, but we kind of have some idea that it's a store or it's offices or it's both or it's apartments or it's something and I don't have that and that's what -- that's what makes it very hard for me Meridian City Council October 14, 2003 Page 36 of 45 to say it's fine, it is our gateway and I know that term gets used a lot, but if you're coming from the north to the south, that's our gateway on both sides of the road. It starts right here, because this is in the city and this is in the city and I believe that's in the City of Boise. So, the City of Meridian starts right here and the rest of Eagle Road we don't have anything left. I don't know -- I couldn't tell you today if a shopping center is the best thing for that corner. We have had a lot of discussions about those types of uses on the corners and the access points and lights and all of those other things -- I couldn't tell you today, but if you listen to what the applicant says, they don't have -- they don't even agree to do this as one unit. What I heard was this middle piece may be completely different than these other pieces. Again, I have a hard time being convinced that right now the best interest of the city is to annex that property now with no concept of what it will be. We did give you the ability to market it and now we have asked you to tell us what it's going to be before we agree to it and I just didn't hear that and so I guess I'm not convinced yet that this is the best thing in the interest of the city to annex this property today. De Weerd: Any other questions, comments from Council? Do you want a response from the applicant or -- Nary: The Public Hearing is still open. De Weerd: Does the applicant want to comment? Ruwe: Janet Ruwe, 2935 North Eagle Road. When you said look at the map before, do you mean this map down here? Okay. So, in the Comprehensive Plan are we mixed use regional? It was my understanding that mixed use regional really meant you didn't need a Conditional Use Permit? Is that right? Okay. But, anyway, we are agreeing to that and mainly because of Carol Subdivision, so that anything that we -- you know, that comes forward involves the neighbors, involves the City Council, involves Planning and Zoning, involves everything. Okay, and then, my other question is, okay, let's say -- okay, what do I do as a homeowner who wants to sell the property? I can't sell my property as mixed use regional unless I get the agreement of everybody around me to do the same thing -- I mean, you know, they have the same plans -- or in the same plan. I think that's really kind of tough. I mean I can see if it's one big parcel with probably one owner, but when there is several owners that maybe all don't want to develop right now or want to sell right now, I'm just not sure where I go with that kind of thing or, you know, what would happen and the reason I really went in with this Annexation and Zoning is because I thought why not all do it together, it just seemed like an easier process, rather than me going to ask for this and them going -- you know, all these different -- I mean I can understand it was complicated, but, yet, I don't really know where the rights are or where they end or whatever, so thank you. De Weerd: Well, you know, I understand your concern, but what I don't see in front of us is that this group annexation without any conceptual plan, gains anything. You would still have to -- whether you do this or go any other way, it doesn't gain anything. You still, from the testimony we are hearing, you still are working with -- if the property to the Meridian City Council October 14, 2003 Page 37 of 45 north of you doesn't want to do anything at this point and our process -- and one of the policies or the philosophies that we have been sticking to is we want those conceptual plans, in particular when it does border a residential, to have certain assurances, and I understand the willingness to do the Conditional Use Permit, but that doesn't save anything here either. Whether you get annexed right now and, then, come back for the conditional use or do it all at the same time with the regional mixed used, come in with your annexation request and a plan, it takes all the same amount of time that you're allowing the testimony and the piece of mind for the residential to know what's being out -- what's being proposed and that's why probably we are struggling up here, we like to see a larger plan and really appreciate the fact that you have had a group of property owners come together for that reason, but we don't see a plan. So, there is no advantage to looking and considering this at this point. Ruwe: In other words, if a person comes in individually, how do you treat it? That you have to have the people -- property owners on either side of you, what do they have to do, just come and testify that they agree with it or don't agree with it? De Weerd: If you came in with your piece of property with annexation request and a plan, certainly they would be notified and would have an opportunity to testify to the proposed plan. Ruwe: So, then, the idea of a plan development -- can we call it group plan isn't in the picture anymore. A planned development I guess you would say is not in the picture anymore, it's just a compatibility with the neighbors that live on either side, if they agree -- De Weerd: It would be a piece by piece. Ruwe: Then piece by piece. De Weerd: So, we like the concept of everyone coming as a group, but the advantage to that is an overall plan that we can see the whole piece, instead of piece by piece, but we are not seeing that in this case. Do you understand? Ruwe: No. I understand it and I think it's coming at it another way, because we are different. I mean different property owners, who are not in one plan, I guess. I mean we are not all going to -- we are not going to sell to the same buyer, probably. Nary: And I don't know if this explains it any better, but, you're right, if you came in and asked for -- to be annexed just for your piece alone and every other one of those property owners did the exact same thing, would we annex you? I don't know. We might, but we might not. I mean but you -- Ruwe: But, then, you would be totally looking at us as individuals, not as a group. Meridian City Council October 14, 2003 Page 38 of 45 Nary: Right, and as Councilmember de Weerd said, that's not our preference, but you haven't been a whole lot different by banding together. Our preference is -- is a group application or one application and a bunch of property together in one concept plan for a large piece of property, some general idea of what's going to be there. That would be our preference. Our least favorite preference is to have every individual come and request it, because, again, you have piecemeal development and that's not favored either. But you haven't given us either one of those. I mean what you have done is banded together to give us piecemeal development and you haven't done anything to assure us it isn't going to be piecemeal development, so since that's our least favorite one, just by you banding together, you didn't save anything, you didn't benefit anything from the city's perspective to me, because all you have done is really just -- you know, still is just piecemeal development, it just happens to be four of you all at once. But it didn't benefit us -- or at least to me doesn't benefit the city better just because you're together. The only benefit to being together, as Councilmember de Weerd was saying, was to have a concept plan, to have something that the group wants to accomplish and that's what we are not seeing. Ruwe: Okay. Thank you. Nary: Does that help? Ruwe: No. It does. It's still a little bit of a gray area and I think it's a gray area for you, too. I mean this whole thing is kind of interesting. I think it's an interesting situation how we have to be a whole corner there, but yet it's six different parcels or five across, but four different owners. Yeah. Okay. De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Council? Powell: Madam President? De Weerd: Anna? Powell: Could I just point out in the staff report, Mr. Hawkins-Clark did point out that the two kind of discussion points and findings that were critical to this were finding A and finding J. Finding A is that will the zoning be harmonious with and in accordance with the Comprehensive Plan and finding J is, is the proposed zoning amendment in the best interest of the City of Meridian. So, as you're making your motion you might want that information. De Weerd: Okay. The Public Hearing is still open. Council, do you wish to close it or do you need more information? Nary: Madam President, I guess before we close the Public Hearing, I don't know -- I mean we have had a lot of discussion -- I don't know if the developers want some opportunity to see if there is some way to get closer to where they want. I don't know. I mean maybe they want us to make a decision and move on, but -- Meridian City Council October 14, 2003 Page 39 of 45 De Weerd: Want to continue this? Nary: Right. If they think there is some opportunity to have some conversation with those property owners or they think there is a way that -- to deal with this, I don't know. I just wanted that opportunity to respond, so -- Davis: Could I have a chance to talk to Mr. Eagy's representative? De Weerd: Council, we could recess for five or ten minutes. Nary: Sure. De Weerd: Okay. I would go ahead and entertain a motion to recess or I will just recess for ten minutes. We will be back at ten after 9:00. (Recess.) De Weerd: Okay. I will go ahead and call the meeting back to order. Is the applicant -- thank you. You need to state your name. Terry: My name is Tim Terry, BRS Architects. Madam President, Members of the Council, we appreciate the recess and we have had a chance to discuss the issues and at this time we'd like to request a delay for two weeks. De Weerd: Okay. Continue that until the 28th? Terry: Yes. De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Bird: Madam President? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: Hearing that from the applicant, I would move that we continue Public Hearing AZ 03-018, request for Annexation and Zoning of 43.86 +/- acres from RT to C-G zones for Kissler/ Cobbs / Eagy / Ruwe by BRS Architects until October 28th, 2003. Nary: Second. De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to continue Public Hearing Item number 18 to October 28, 2003. All those in favor say aye. Okay. All ayes. Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Meridian City Council October 14, 2003 Page 40 of 45 Item 19: Public Hearing: AZ 03-020 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 1.13 acres from R-6 to L-O zones for proposed Office Jet Subdivision by Wardle and Associates – 1975 North Locust Grove Road: Item 20: Public Hearing: PFP 03-003 Request for Preliminary / Final Plat approval of 4 building lots on 1.13 acres in a proposed L-O zone for proposed Office Jet Subdivision by Wardle and Associates – 1975 North Locust Grove Road: De Weerd: Okay. I'll go ahead and open up 19 and 20, if there are no objections. Public Hearing AZ 03-020, request for Annexation and Zoning of 1.13 acres from R-6 to L-O zones for proposed Office Jet Subdivision and Public Hearing PFP 03-003, request for preliminary and final plat approval of four building lots on 1.13 acres in a proposed L-O zone for Office Jet Subdivision by Wardle and Associates and start with staff comments. Powell: Madam President, Members of the Council, first of all, I'd like to see if the applicant wants to continue this, just because I'm sure that we have broken some record for continuation of items on one single agenda. De Weerd: The applicant says no. Powell: Okay. Moving on, then, this is a request for annexation -- or, I'm sorry, it's already annexed to -- a rezone to L-O. No. It is Annexation and Zoning to L-O. The Doris Subdivision was platted within Ada County. This is a lot within that subdivision. The applicant is proposing a four lot plat. I believe you can see it here that it actually takes access from Wildwood Court and into the property with a simple plus design with four lots and four buildings, arranged in a symmetrical entrance. The site does currently have a house on it. That would be removed. There is also a significant tree stand in the back of the property. The applicant has indicated that they will try to keep as many of those as possible. The applicant has secured a cross-access agreement with the homeowners association that owns the lot in Westwood Subdivision, also known as Locust Grove Subdivision, so that they can gain access from that Wildwood Court. The four office lots range from about -- would have a total of 10,540 square feet of new light office uses. The lots range in size from about 2,200 square feet to about 8,700 square feet. The applicant is asking for a combined preliminary and final plat approval. The only real issue associated with this was in regard to the Comprehensive Plan designation and that was really the only issue discussed at Planning and Zoning and it's still before you, it's just that it's a new interpretation. I'll go through that with you. The Comprehensive Plan for this property does show it as very low density residential. There is, however, office shown here. There are statements in the Comprehensive Plan about the kind of fluid nature of those lines, that they are not intended to be hard and fast lines. We do have an adjoining property that does have the office designation, so when the applicant first came and talked to me, I said that I would be willing to kind of push that line over to this property under the condition that Meridian City Council October 14, 2003 Page 41 of 45 the applicant do a lot of work with the neighborhood association and -- or the neighbors and they have done that and they -- that was key to having staff's recommendation for approval on this project. I think they have done a real good job of working with their neighbors and meeting their concerns and so it does come forward from Planning and Zoning with a recommendation for approval and I made it clear at the Planning and Zoning Commission hearing and I do want to make it clear here that I don't take this push lightly, that we did consider it and wanted to make sure that the neighbors were well informed and their needs were well met by the application. De Weerd: Thank you, Anna. Any questions, Council? Okay. Applicant? Is the testimony you provide tonight the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Wardle: Yes. De Weerd: Thank you. Please state your name and address. Wardle: For the record, my name is Jon Wardle. My address is 3940 East Mill Station in Boise. I'm glad to be here with you this evening. Appreciate the overview that Anna gave this evening. Just to give you a little bit of background on the process we have gone through. Looking at the project, there is L-O right here and we felt that since there was an existing road that made the most sense to bring our access directly out to Willowbrook Road, instead of going straight out to Locust Grove and create a conflict there. In order to do that, though, there was a right of way -- actually, a common strip there along the Westwood Subdivision, so we held a neighborhood meeting with that homeowners association and talked specifically about the access needs that we had and got the majority of them to sign off agreeing to let us access across their common strip directly to that road, as well as utility. We also, as Anna indicated, we are part of the platted Doris Subdivision, which was platted in the county. We are subject to their CC&R’s. So, we went door to door gaining signatures to opt out of their of CC&R’s and their association. We told them specifically what we were doing with the limited office and we got the signatures that we needed to amend the CC&R’s and not be a part of that anymore. We also sent out a notice to have a neighborhood meeting for the rest, everybody else that was impacted, and so we really tried to go above and beyond, other than just show up for a public hearing and saying this is what we are trying to do. It is a four lot office subdivision. Buildings will range I think from 2,200 square feet to 3,500, 3,600 square feet. All the access will be internal. We will have a cross-access agreement amongst all the properties, so they will share parking, as well as ingress and egress to Willowbrook Court. Anna, if you can go to the landscape plan. Anna did indicate correctly that there is a grove of trees that's right here and you see that there is one building that takes a good portion of those. We have been working with the neighbor directly to the west. You can tell that there are trees that show up on his property and we have been working with him to move those trees directly onto his property. We are also working with both neighbors on fencing and just making sure that we are being a good neighbor. If you look at the overall plan, seeing the overall zoning that exists there, limited office to the north, commercial straight -- right across the street Meridian City Council October 14, 2003 Page 42 of 45 from us, it, actually, creates a nice little neighborhood service core right there at that location. They are not high impact use, but they, generally would be services or uses that would direct -- relate directly to neighborhood small offices. Currently in the office to the north there is just a general office, there is a dentist and I think there is also a mortgage company. So, it will be something along those lines, nothing intense, but something that would be a good transitional buffer to those neighbors. We just respectfully request your approval of both the Annexation and Zoning request, as well as the preliminary plat and final plat approval and I stand for any questions you might have. De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions? Nary: Madam President? De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: I guess I don't have a question as a comment, but I mean I think you have gone above and beyond, Mr. Wardle, and I appreciate that. I think that that's going to be a good addition to that area and think the whole idea and the way you have gone about it is what we like to see. So, thank you very much. Wardle: Thank you. De Weerd: I think it speaks well not having the neighbors here, that you dotted all your I's and crossed your T's and that's testimony in itself. Wardle: Obviously, that's not always the case, but in this case we were able to work with the neighbors and they were comfortable with what we were doing. So, thank you. De Weerd: Good job. Okay. Is there any other testimony on this application? Okay. Questions for staff? Okay. I would entertain a motion to close the Public Hearing. Nary: So moved. McCandless: Second. De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to close the Public Hearing on Items 19 and 20. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. De Weerd: Discussion? Bird: Madam President? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Meridian City Council October 14, 2003 Page 43 of 45 Bird: Hearing no discussion, I would move that we approve AZ 03-020, request for Annexation and Zoning of 1.13 acres from R-6 to L-O zones for proposed Office Jet Subdivision by Wardle and Associates, 1975 North Locust Grove Road and to incorporate staff comments, Planning and Zoning approval, and applicant comments and for the attorney to draw up Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision of Order. McCandless: Second. De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve AZ 03-020. Mr. Clerk, roll call. Roll Call: McCandless, yea; Nary, yea; de Weerd, yea; Bird, yea. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. De Weerd: Do I have a motion? Bird: Madam President? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: I would move that we approve PFP 03-003, request for preliminary/final plat approval of four building lots on 1.13 acres in a proposed L-O zone for the proposed Office Jet Subdivision by Wardle and Associates, 1975 North Locust Grove Road, to incorporate staff, Planning and Zoning, applicant comments and for the attorney to draw up Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision of Order. McCandless: Second. De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve PFP 03-003. Mr. Clerk, roll call. Roll Call: McCandless, yea; Nary, yea; de Weerd, yea; Bird, yea. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 21: Public Hearing: MI 03-009 Request for modification of condition to leave the Onweiler Lateral open and construct a 10 foot wide paved multi- use pathway and place a 5 foot chain link fence along the south bank of canal for Silhouette Subdivision by Silhouette LLC – east of North Meridian Road and south of East Ustick Road: De Weerd: Okay. Item 21, Public Hearing MI 03-009, request for modification of condition to leave the Onweiler Lateral open and construct a ten foot wide paved multi- Meridian City Council October 14, 2003 Page 44 of 45 use pathway and place a five foot chain link fence along the south bank of the canal for Silhouette Subdivision and I will open the Public Hearing with staff comments. Bird: Madam President -- this is Item 21? De Weerd: Yes. Thank you. Bird: I would move we -- you have opened the Public Hearing? De Weerd: Yes. Bird: I would move we continue Public Hearing MI 03-009, request for the modification of condition to leave the Onweiler Lateral open and construct a ten foot wide paved multi-use pathway by Silhouette Subdivision by Silhouette, LLC, east of north Meridian Road and south of East Ustick Road to November 25th , 2003. McCandless: Second. De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to continue the Public Hearing on Item 21 to November 25th , 2003. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. De Weerd: Okay. I think that you all received Will's e-mail on Malcolm MacCoy's services. They are tomorrow. Oh. Thursday. I'm sorry. I'm on Wednesday. 4:00 o'clock Wednesday. Still Thursday. Chief Bowers' father has passed away and his services will be Friday morning and from what I understand, in the cemetery, but Will will send details. So -- and I'm sure Will has already done flowers. Thank you. Any word on Mayor Corrie? Bird: Cherie, do you have anything? McCandless: Yes. I saw him Saturday and he's coming along great. Talked to him and he sounded even better, so -- De Weerd: Great. That's good news. Okay. Is there any further city business? Okay. I'll entertain a motion to adjourn. Nary. So moved. McCandless: Second De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to adjourn the public hearing regular agenda October 14th at 9:30. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Meridian City Council October 14, 2003 Page 45 of 45 MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:30 P.M. (TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) _______________________________ ______/______/______ ROBERT D. CORRIE, MAYOR DATE APPROVED ATTEST: _____________________________________ WILLIAM G. BERG, JR, CITY CLERK