HomeMy WebLinkAbout2003 08-05 PreMeridian City Pre-Council Meeting August 5, 2003
The Pre-Council Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:05
P.M. on Tuesday, August 5, 2003, by Council President Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Tammy de Weerd, Cherie McCandless, Bill Nary, and Keith
Bird.
Members Absent: Mayor Robert Corrie
Others Present: Bill Nichols, Gary Smith, Kenny Bowers, Anna Powell, and Will
Berg.
Item 1. Roll-call Attendance:
X Tammy de Weerd X Bill Nary
X Cherie McCandless X Keith Bird
O Mayor Robert Corrie
De Weerd: Okay we’ll call the Pre-Council Meeting of August 5, 2003 it’s 6:05.
I’ll call the meeting to order and ask the clerk to call roll.
Item 2. Adoption of the Agenda:
De Weerd: Okay Item Number 2 adoption of the agenda.
Bird: Madam President.
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we adopt the agenda as published.
Nary: Second.
De Weerd: It’s been moved and seconded to adopt the agenda as presented.
All those in favor say aye. All ayes motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Item 3. Continued from July 22, 2003 Pre-Council Meeting:
Discussion of Locust Grove Overpass Right-of-Way
Reimbursement:
De Weerd: Item Number 3 this is a continuation of the discussion of Locust
Grove Overpass right of way reimbursement. We asked Bruce Mills to come
back and talk to us. Council Member Bird was not here so we postponed it until
you could hear it too. Thank you. Keith just a little background we did say
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August 5, 2003
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probably the main bulk of the questions were regarding the intersection at
Overland and Locust Grove.
Mills: Yes. Bruce Mills ACHD Garden City. I’ve given you a sketch of the
intersection with Overland Road and Locust Grove. The highlighted yellow areas
are the actual areas where we’re doing takes so we’re not purchasing entire
parcels. However, up in the northwest corner we are buying a pond site for
detention. I went over this with staff at ACHD and basically we feel that yes,
there are a few parcels that probably do not fall within the boundaries of the
project which is Locust Grove from Overland to Franklin including the
intersections. Let me say this, what we’re looking at right now is the approaches
to the intersections of course do need some widening as a mixture of right of way
because of tapers and widening out for turn lanes. Part of that was included in
the right of way takes. However, if you look at Lot Number 9, which is on the
southeast corner of the intersection, we purchased the entire frontage a strip
along that. We only need about half of it for our turn lane so we’re proposing to
credit back that south 475 feet and not charge the city for that right of way.
Similarly, on the west leg of the intersection there are Lots 1, 2, 3, and 4 of
Sportsman Pointe. Again, we purchased those however the major reason for
those purchases is for the widening of Overland Road in the future not for Locust
Grove. We would exclude those as well. Also, the pond site itself there’s a
yellow strip we’re purchasing an easement. This is in the northwest corner of the
intersection. We’re purchasing an easement along the west side of Lots 6 and 7
and the pond site itself. However, I’ve been told by our design and construction
people that that pond site is only handling about 25 percent of the – the pond site
is sized to handle Locust Grove flows. The other 75 percent is actually to handle
Overland flows from that project when we do that. Therefore, we should have a
credit back on that. Unfortunately, tonight I have not had an opportunity for our
staff to calculate the exact amount of those credits but they’re going to be
something in the range of 100 to 120,000 dollars. That’s my best guess at this
point. What we would propose to do is under the sheet that I don’t know if you
still have it from last time but it was our billings. Number 4 was the one that we
have not received – you have not made a payment on yet and that was for
179,609 dollars. That’s for Lots 6, and 7 for what we’ve purchased there. We
would probably subtract those credits out of that, send you a new bill for that
which would be again probably 100 to 120,000 dollars less than that 179,000
that you have.
Bird: Madam President.
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Bruce, when we get these credits back I want -- like Lot 1 how much they
paid for that. This six and seven is absolutely ridiculous. Anybody that would
pay that amount for what the footage you’re getting because 10 takes up most of
the footage. Now I don’t know what you’re paying for the pond sites –
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August 5, 2003
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Mills: Quite a bit I think –
Bird: -- a whale of a price for it but I tell you we don’t have 100 feet there that we
had agreed to help purchase. That’s 179,000 dollars. When we break these out
I don’t know how ACHD thought we were going to be paying down on Overland
Road and everything when our agreement was between Overland Road on
Locust to Franklin Road on Locust over the deal. They’re billing us for that. I
just want to want a break out of what each lot costs because that’s not hard to do
when it comes through.
Mills: For every lot regardless of the ones that we’re giving credits on you would
like a list of?
Bird: Yes even with the credits I still want to know what we paid for them.
Mills: Okay that’s no problem. We can do that.
De Weerd: Bruce it might be helpful I don’t know if you can answer this at this
point but if you can tell us how the prices are arrived at. The prices of this right
of way.
Mills: For each parcel broken down is that what you mean?
De Weerd: Yes.
Mills: Because we have a land value and we have easements that we buy as
well for the slopes we may be tying into. We have damages and improvements
that we purchase. Fences, trees, and that type of thing along the parcels. I don’t
know how detailed you want.
Nichols: Madam President.
Mills: We also have administrative settlement amounts for some of these parcels
where what we offer at fair market value they won’t accept that and we go a little
higher.
De Weerd: Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: Madam President the agreement is supposed to require that when they
submit a billing there is supposed to be a copy of the purchase and sale
agreement, a copy of the closing statement, a copy of the cost of the appraisal
and negotiation, recorded deed and summary of transaction including total
amount requested for reimbursement.
Mills: Right and I can’t tell you if we sent that or not. Have we sent those?
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August 5, 2003
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Smith: Madam President and Council Members we did receive quite a packet of
information with each invoice. Some of it was – well there was a lot of
information there let me put it that way. I’m not sure I understood all of it but
there was an appraisal enclosed with the information. There was a purchase
agreement enclosed with it and just a lot of information there that was
transmitted to me from the Finance Department.
De Weerd: Okay so Mr. Bird if you wanted to review that information that
probably would answer a lot of your questions. I think those are what you are
looking for right.
Bird: If we got them in there I’ll go take a look.
De Weerd: Okay.
Mills: I’ll still provide you with a summary as you asked for, for each parcel, how
much it costs and a breakdown of what we’re crediting back.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Nary: Madam President.
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Yes, in looking at one of these maps, Bruce, you know it looks like on the
other side the north side of the freeway there the one that sort of jumped out at
me seemed a little odd. I know we’re not looking at a billing for that yet but at
Lots 15, 16, and 18 it appears that the way it is drawn on this map it’s not the
frontage. I’m not sure –
Mills: I’m sorry that must be one of the other let me get the other map out.
Nary: It appears – yes because at least the way it is drawn it’s drawn off the
roadway. I don’t know what’s there so I’m not particularly sure when we get to
the billing part of that as – I don’t know what’s in that space.
Bird: We already paid for it though.
Nary: What’s that?
Bird: We paid for that.
Mills: We actually purchased along Locust Grove even though the arrows are
pointing kind of on the west side of the parcel. We purchased all along the east
side a portion of the frontage.
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August 5, 2003
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Nary: Oh I see yes that was paid July 14th
I’m sorry. Then looking at the map it
doesn’t appear that it’s actually frontage on the road so I’m not sure exactly if
there’s another map with a yellow highlighter that’s going to come that says will
be actually bought or paid for.
Mills: I can do that. I’m sorry I didn’t tonight because I was concentrating on the
intersection but I can include that map with the other information I’m supposed to
bring.
Nary: I guess I’ll -- the other harder question too is that on some of these from
what I’m gathering from what you’re saying is as we’ve reviewed this and now
you folks have looked back at the agreement. We’ve looked at the agreement
we all sort of agree there’s about 120,000 dollars now to be credited back
towards these purchases we’ve already authorized paying. I guess how do we
avoid this in the future. It appears to me that the only reason we’re even having
this conversation is because we brought it up at our joint meeting. I guess I’m a
little curious as to how did you inadvertently bill us 120,000 dollars that you
shouldn’t have and how did we agree to pay it when we shouldn’t have?
Mills: And the best way I think I could answer that question is that the people
who were putting together those billings were only given the limited – they were
given a map that said here is the boundary of this project per the agreement. It
took in every parcel that was going to be bought so they really didn’t they didn’t
break that information out. When it came to the pond size, or the pond itself
obviously no one ventured the information that this pond is going to be used for
two different projects not only for the Locust Grove project and that the majority
is actually on a different project. How can we prevent that in the future? The
only parcels left to buy at this point are definitely within the limits of the
agreement. They are north of the overpass area. I don’t see this same situation
cropping up on this agreement again. The ones in question are the ones at the
intersection of Overland.
Nary: So you could get us another map of the north side that would have what
particularly we paid for this because you’ve given us basically the same kind of
map on the south side of these very large parcels of which we’re only paying for
10 percent of it.
Mills: A strip along there.
Nary: Yes, a strip of that piece so you will have something else that you could
provide showing exactly what’s being billed for?
Mills: Absolutely.
De Weerd: You can in that summary Bruce if you can show us what has been
purchased and what still remains to be purchased. We pretty much have that but
if you can put that in your summary that would be helpful. Mr. Nary I think this
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August 5, 2003
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was also raised because Gary got the bill for it and he raised some questions. I
guess in the checks and balances that we do have set up I feel comfortable that
some of this won’t slip through. Now that we’ve caught it, we can make sure that
we have set policies or process to go through to make sure it doesn’t happen
again. We know that Gary’s being very thorough of his evaluation of what we’re
paying for. I appreciate that Gary.
Smith: Thank you. Madam President and Council Members also Bruce did
furnish me two weeks ago I think it was a set of right of way plans for Locust
Grove from Bentley north to Franklin. Those right of way plans have the parcels
shown on them with names, dimensions so it will be easy for me to check the
invoices against those right of way plans. My biggest concern was with this
intersection business because I didn’t have any real good plans of what the
invoices did include which is what Bruce has now furnished to you. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you Bruce. I appreciate you reporting back to us on that.
Mills: Sure. Was there a question on a detention pond as well that I had heard?
Bird: When we go over these – we’ve been billed twice for Lot 3. We’ve been
billed the Bentley to Franklin Lot 3. Maybe it’s a different lot. We’ve been billed
up on Item Number 2 for Lot 3.
Mills: I’ll check I think it is a duplicate number but that it’s still two separate
parcels.
Bird: Somebody said 120 I think it’s more like 190.
De Weerd: Okay. You can get that back to the City Clerk’s Office and he can get
that to us. Thank you Bruce.
Mills: Madam President was there a question also, I had heard on the detention
pond on the northeast corner of Meridian and Overland.
De Weerd: Oh just Cherie and I met with Katy last week and noticed that we
have a detention pond there at Overland and Meridian / Kuna Road. It’s in our
entry corridor and I had just asked her what was the landscape I mean what
were the plans for that area. She said that she would bring the question back.
Mills: I’ve got some information if you would like that right now.
De Weerd: That would be great.
Mills: I’ll be brief.
De Weerd: Council do you mind?
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August 5, 2003
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Nary: No.
Mills: Just quickly ACHD when we landscape our ponds if you will normally
they’re pretty much just hydro seeding getting some ground cover established on
them. Any other landscaping requirements that some of the agencies or the
private parties would like typically they pay for those and then they maintain them
through an agreement with us. That particular pond when we’re done with our
rough grading it’s going to get just hydro seeded so it it will get some grass
growing on it. It’s going to – when we do that intersection, in the future they’re
going to expand that pond so we didn’t want to put a lot of effort into doing any
type of landscaping at this time no matter what until we came back and
expanded the pond for the intersection. If it’s something that Meridian would like
to see landscaped in the future we could work towards some agreement whether
or not we wound up paying for that landscaping or selves up front but certainly
the long term maintenance we would ask the city or some other party to take
over. It’s not something we would do.
De Weerd: Well I think that’s definitely something that we have to discuss.
Maybe that’s an item of discussion for the next joint meeting. That is our entry
corridor and your ponds have traditionally not been very esthetically pleasing. Of
course, when I saw it there and I didn’t know that there was plan to be there that
was very concerning to us. We also look at the park and ride. The park and ride
didn’t follow our ordinance either. Those are designated corridors and so I’m
somewhat surprised that there aren’t any more extensive plans for putting a
pond in such a highly visible area. Yes, it is a real concern for us and that is
something that I guess we need to take up with the Commission. That is the
entry into Meridian and we can’t look at the traditional ACHD pond at that kind of
an entryway.
Mills: Okay.
De Weerd: Any other comments from –
McCandless: No I agree.
De Weerd: I do appreciate you getting back to us but I don’t know what they
were thinking to put that there if they didn’t intend to live up with our ordinance.
We do have more extensive ordinances in entryway areas.
Mills: And I’m not aware of those. Perhaps I can talk to Anna later about that.
Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Gary.
Smith: Madam President if I could bounce back to the first subject on our
invoices. I just want to give some credit to City Clerk Berg because he sent that
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August 5, 2003
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first invoice my way and asked me to take a look at it. That’s kind of where the
check started.
De Weerd: Thank you Gary. We usually can rely on our City Clerk to keep that
eagle eye on things.
Nary: Evil eye.
De Weerd: Eagle.
Nary: Oh eagle eye.
De Weerd: Thank you Mr. Nary.
Item 4. Discussion of Revocation of Conditional Use Permit for
Meridian Automotive – Anna Powell:
De Weerd: Item Number 4 discussion of the revocation of Conditional Use
Permit for Meridian Automotive.
Powell: Madam President Members of the Council we’re just here tonight to
make sure that we’re proceeding with your authority. The Conditional Use Permit
expired due to the lack of compliance with conditions of approval that were
granted. That happened in about late April just about I think two days after I got
on the job. I believe that Dave McKinnon forwarded a memorandum to the
Mayor that was probably circulated to you. We’re just now getting back saying
we assume that you do indeed want us to begin revocation of the Conditional
Use Permit. There has been some discussion with the applicant’s representative
regarding perhaps coming in for another Conditional Use Permit so we just
wanted to verify with you that we would go ahead and revoke the existing
approval for the CU.
Nichols: Madam President.
De Weerd: Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: Anna in order to revoke a permit there has to be a hearing. The
Council needs to – it needs to be presented to the Council in hearing format,
notice of hearing given to the permit applicant. If it’s staff recommendation that
the permit be revoked then that process needs to begin so that this Council can
vote up or down on whether to revoke it. I don’t know that it’s the province of the
Council to tell you whether you to go forward with that or not it’s really an
administrative level decision whether you bring it forward to the Council. Then
they make the decision at a hearing level. They can’t pre-judge whether it
should be revoked or not.
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August 5, 2003
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Powell: I knew it was a hearing and I wasn’t looking for a vote today. Perhaps
this is just a question to Council then. Since the Conditional Use Permit that was
a condition of approval as assigned by the City Council says to begin to revoke
the approval then I should take that as direction to begin that on behalf of the
city.
Nichols: Madam President Members of the Council. I think that’s the
administrative decision whether to proceed with – whether staff believes those
conditions have been met if they do not believe they have been met and
therefore the issue should come before the Council as to whether to revoke that
permit or not.
Powell: Okay. I’m sorry for the confusion Madam President. I’ve never done
this before.
De Weerd: I thank you. Council it is 25 after 6:00. We have – Councilman Nary
had brought up that maybe we can clean up some old business in regards to our
budget process. If you would all be in agreement to that, we can have some
discussions on that process.
Nary: Madam President.
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: They may not have heard me earlier. All I was – when you had asked if
there were any other issues we had had a very brief discussion at the budget
hearings about some policy questions that have arisen occasionally on some
spending issues. Departmental issues as well as sometimes Council issues
regarding very minor things meals, I think flowers were one of the discussions at
one point from departments. I didn’t know if there was some consensus from the
Council here if you wanted to have that discussion. You had also raised earlier I
think at the budget hearing that was your I guess desire to at least discuss the
issue regarding I think the Council President pay. I don’t remember if it was
Council pay, in general I can’t recall. You had mentioned earlier that you felt that
the time – also I think you had mentioned very clearly this wouldn’t benefit you
you wouldn’t be the Council President next year anyway. That the Council might
want to have a discussion about whether or not whoever serves in the Council
President’s position that there should be some additional compensation for the
time that it takes to carry out that responsibility. Again, I didn’t know if anybody
wants to have that conversation or not but I just thought since we had time if we
wanted to that would be fine. Was that all that was talked about in regards to the
budget I don’t remember if there was something else in regards to some
expenses?
De Weerd: I think those are the issues that were raised that had not been
discussed. I think the flowers and the in town meals were kind of reminisce of
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August 5, 2003
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when we were doing the travel policy and some of the other purchasing type of
policies. Is there any discussion on that?
Nary: Madam President I guess what I would I guess put out for the discussion
point I don’t have a problem in trying to formulate with the Finance Department
or something. Something clarifying within the budget within the policies as to
things like you know those types of (inaudible) expenses that come along for the
department as well as the Council or the Mayor especially in town meals and the
like. I think the discussion came up once originally the Mayor isn’t here tonight
but about the Chamber or some of the other types of meals that come along that
the Mayor attends or the Council Members attend for varieties of different things
or whether or not they’re business related expenses. I think in the past we’ve
generally charged them as business expenses. I don’t know that there’s a clear
policy to that so I don’t know if we want to at least invite that discussion with
Stacy either at a Pre-Council Meeting or if you want to take that yourself and
have that discussion with her. I don’t have an objection to it unless anyone else
does for you to have that conversation with her to see if we need to clarify some
of those things, so when they get done that we aren’t always asking the same
question.
De Weerd: During the travel policy that issue did come up. If you would like me
to talk to her as a Council President, I certainly can. Either that or our
department liaison can do that. I don’t know Mr. Bird what are your thoughts?
Bird: What are my thoughts? I think everybody knows where I stand on stuff like
the Chamber and stuff. I think that that isn’t a city function that the city should be
paying for their lunches. I think you go over there as an individual on that but I
think we need to have policies like the flowers and stuff. I’d much rather send a
20 dollar flower then pay for all four of our dinners at the Chamber. I will be glad
to talk to Stacy and see if we can get a policy. I don’t think we have policies. If
you don’t have policy then what do you do? That’s our biggest problem. I think
this is what’s going to – definitely shows up. Not that anything has ever been
abused in this city. I never would say that but I just feel that if I go to the
Chamber that’s my prerogative to go and I will pay. If it’s a policy for the other
then, I have no problem with that either if they pay for the others. If it’s a policy
but I don’t think we have a policy and I think, that’s where we need to get some
policies going. I’ll talk to Stacy about it.
De Weerd: Thank you Mr. Bird. I know that what the City Clerk has shared with
me in regards to the flowers I think a policy has been made that all of those are
done through the Clerk’s Office so that there’s some kind of controls over not
having six sent out but just one that’s sent out purchased by the city. If particular
individual departments would like to do that, they can pool money and do it from
their personal departments. I think that was worked out in a Department Head
Meeting and it sounds like an extremely fair policy. It probably does help to have
one person overseeing that so that it doesn’t get too fractions. As far as the
meals and Keith if you could work with Stacy on that. I know as far as Council
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August 5, 2003
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goes we all have an expense amount that we can choose to spend that in any
way you wish. I think too, the policy needs to include our city employees
because that question was raised. Maybe Stacy can take it to the Department
Head Meeting where they can discuss that as a team and can bring something
back in regards to the city employee side of it. If you could take the lead on that.
Bird: I’ll take that today or I’ll try to do it sometime tomorrow.
Item 5. Executive Session:
De Weerd: Okay I was hoping maybe we could go into Executive Session and
that would be in regards to 67-2345(c). I would entertain a motion to go into
Executive Session.
Bird: Madam President I move we go into Executive Session regarding Idaho
State Code 67-2345(c).
Nary: Second.
De Weerd: Okay it’s been moved and seconded to move into Executive Session
regarding Idaho State Code 67-2345(c). All those in favor say aye. I’m sorry roll
call. Thank you Mr. Clerk.
Roll Call: Bird, aye; Nary, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
(Go into Executive Session)
(Reconvene at 7:05 P.M.)
De Weerd: Entertain a motion.
Bird: Madam President.
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that we come out of the Executive Session and nothing was
decided.
Nary: Second.
De Weerd: Okay it’s been moved and seconded to come out of Executive
Session. Mr. Berg.
Roll Call: Bird, aye; Nary, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye.
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
August 5, 2003
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MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
De Weerd: All ayes. No decisions were made so I would entertain a motion to
adjourn the Pre-Council Meeting.
Nary: So moved.
McCandless: Second.
De Weerd: Okay it’s been moved and seconded to adjourn. All those in favor
say aye. All ayes motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 7:05 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
APPROVED:
/ /
ROBERT D. CORRIE, MAYOR DATE
ATTESTED:
WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., CITY CLERK