HomeMy WebLinkAbout2003 08-05Meridian City Council Meeting August 5, 2003
The Regular Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:15 P.M., on
Tuesday, August 5, 2003, by Council President Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: William Nary, Keith Bird, Tammy de Weerd, and Cherie
McCandless.
Members absent: Mayor Robert Corrie.
Others Present: Bill Nichols, Will Berg, Brad Watson, Anna Powell, and Dean Willis.
Item 1. Roll call Attendance:
__X Tammy de Weerd _ X__ Bill Nary
__X Cherie McCandless __X Keith Bird
O Robert Corrie
De Weerd: Okay. I will call the Regular Council Meeting of Tuesday, August 5th
, to
order. It is 7:05. Mr. Clerk, please call roll.
Item 2. Adoption of the Agenda:
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Item Number 2, adoption of the agenda.
Bird: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve the agenda as published.
Nary: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve the agenda as presented.
I just have a couple of items here. Item Number 10 has been requested to table to
November 2nd
. Is that correct, Anna?
Powell: September 2nd
.
De Weerd: And on the Consent Agenda, D, E, and F, is related to Item Number 5, so
we will just make note of that.
Nary: Madam President, would we move those to Item 6, then?
De Weerd: Yes.
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August 5, 2003
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Nary: Okay. Take them off the Consent?
De Weerd: Yes.
Nary: Okay.
De Weerd: So, if the maker of the motion would agree.
Bird: I would pull the motion and make a new motion, if that's okay with the second.
Nary: Sure.
Bird: I move we adopt the agenda as noted. D, E, and F will move to 6-D, E and F, and
Item 10 will be continued to November 2nd
.
De Weerd: September 2nd
.
Bird: September 2nd
.
De Weerd: We will do that when we get to Item 10.
Bird: Okay. Yes. We will do it, then.
De Weerd: Okay. Is there a second?
Nary: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to amend the agenda to move
Consent Agenda Items D, E, and F to No. 6 and if there isn't any other further
discussion, all those in favor say aye. Okay. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Item 3. Consent Agenda:
A. Approve minutes of July 15, 2003 City Council Regular Meeting:
B. Approve minutes of July 15, 2003 Pre-Council Meeting:
C. Approve minutes of July 22, 2003 Pre-Council Meeting:
G. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: AZ 03-
008 Request for annexation and zoning of 34.52 acres from RUT
to R-8 zones for proposed Birchstone Creek Subdivision by
Centennial Development, LLC – northwest corner of West Ustick
Road and North Black Cat Road:
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August 5, 2003
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H. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: PP 03-
008 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 89 building lots and 7
other lots on 34.52 acres in a proposed R-8 zone for proposed
Birchstone Creek Subdivision by Centennial Development, LLC
– northwest corner of West Ustick Road and North Black Cat Road:
I. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: VAR
03-013 Request for a Variance to Meridian City Code 12-4-5
requiring blocks to be not less than 400 feet and not more than
1,000 feet in length for Birchstone Creek Subdivision by
Centennial Development, LLC – northwest corner of West Ustick
Road and North Black Cat Road:
J. May 2003 Addendum to Development Agreement: (Touchmark
Living Centers AZ 99-0021) / CUP 03-005 Request for a
Conditional Use Permit for a Planned Unit Development for
Meadow Lake Village by Hummel Architects, P.A. – east of South
Eagle Road on East Franklin Road:
K. Development Agreement: AZ 00-026 Request for annexation
and zoning of 5.4 acres from Ada County RT zone to R-8 for a
proposed Planned Development for proposed Bear Creek
Subdivision No. 6 (fka / approved as Kodiak Development) by
Bear Creek LLC – west of Meridian Road one-half mile south of
Overland Road:
L. First Addendum to Exhibit “A” Legals of the Development
Agreement: AZ 00-018 Valley Shepherd Church of the
Nazarene:
M. June 2003 Addendum to Development Agreement: AZ 99-010
Queenland Acres, Inc. and Bear Creek, LLC:
N. Development Agreement: AZ 03-006 Request for annexation
and zoning of 397.11 acres from RUT and R-1 zones to R-8, R-40,
L-O, and C-G zones for proposed Paramount Subdivision by
Paramount, LLC – west of North Meridian Road and north of West
McMillan Road:
O. Sewer and Water Main Easement for Lochsa Falls Subdivision:
P. Sewer Main Easement for Havasu Creek Subdivision No. 2:
Q. Sewer Main Easement for Havasu Creek Subdivision No. 3:
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R. Water Main Easement for Creekside Arbour Phase 3:
S. Approve Purchase of Lot in Castlebrook Subdivision No. 1 for
Black Cat Lift Station:
T. Streetlight Agreement for Cedar Springs Subdivision No. 2:
U. Change Order No. 1 for Well No. 24 Pumping Facilities –
Irminger Construction:
V. Approve Bills:
De Weerd: Item Number 3, Consent Agenda.
Bird: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve the Consent Agenda, with the exception of moving Items D, E,
and F to 6-D, 6-E and 6-F on the regular agenda.
Nary: Second.
Bird: And for the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest on all proper papers.
Nary: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. There is a motion to approve the Consent Agenda, Mayor to sign
and Clerk attest all appropriate papers. All those in favor say aye. Oh, I'm sorry. Mr.
Berg.
Roll call: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; de Weerd, aye; Bird, aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 4. Department Reports:
A. Public Works Department:
1. Discussion of Silverstone Corporate Center Well Site,
Well No. 23 – Brad Watson:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 4. Department reports. Public Works. Brad.
Watson: Thank you, Madam President, Council Members. I trust you have a copy of
the memo that I wrote to you last week. There is really no new information. As I stated
in that memo, it was my understanding from the April 22nd
Pre-Council Meeting that you
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August 5, 2003
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had asked Mr. Anderson of Sundance company to come back with more information or
a different proposal. There is also a copy of a letter that Mr. Anderson wrote to Mayor
Corrie hopefully in that packet and, then, for your convenience I just inserted an excerpt
from that April 22nd
Pre-Council Meeting into the packet. Ryan Anderson is here tonight
if you have any questions for him or if you would like to hear from him, but I have really
nothing new since April 22nd
.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you, Brad. Any question for Brad? Ryan, would you like to
come forward? Do you have questions for Mr. Anderson?
Bird: I don't. What are we going to have to do to solve it? Brad didn't we -- isn't there
an agreement or something between you guys, Roger, and Ryan? Wasn't there an
agreement worked out or something? This is just going on too long.
Watson: Council Member Bird, I think that's the reason it's before you is there isn't an
agreement. There was the two options that I outlined in April of either putting together a
Latecomer’s Agreement to pay back onto that -- for that well site, if you directed me to
do that. The second option was a cash payment to Sundance Company for that well
lot. At the time I think the discussion revolved around what was perceived as fair
market value or the value -- I don't know what the term was at the time. We have
drafted a latecomer agreement. We haven't sent it on to Sundance Company, because
this came up at about the same time. We can certainly proceed with that and send it to
them for their approval or if you wish on their -- their request, I think that's what their
preference would be.
Bird: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: My preference would be if it were a fair market value, to pay the thing off and be
out of it. Brad did you -- did you think it was fair market value or were you able to check
or anything like that? I know Ryan come up and explained to us what was fair market
value and there were some questions about it, so --
Watson: Right. Councilman Bird, all I can offer is that last fall, I think it was, I solicited a
proposal from an appraiser to look into that. I guess we didn't follow through on that at
the time, because I guess in my mind at that time we were still going to follow through
on a latecomer agreement and it did slip between the cracks for a month or two.
De Weerd: I believe, Mr. Bird, that it was -- we were thinking it would be a pre-
development cost, instead of -- instead of after.
Bird: Yes.
De Weerd: And I guess that's the crux of the issue in my belief, is that we've paid pre-
development costs, we don't understand why a well site would be charged after the
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August 5, 2003
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roads and infrastructure costs to the value of that piece of property when the well adds
to the value. I think that was the issue that was raised.
Bird: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: The only problem with latecomers it costs you money, too, in administrative fees.
There is a lot of time spent by bookkeeping on latecomers and stuff like that, so I wish
we could work something out here and get it paid off and forgot about, but --
De Weerd: I guess that's why --
Bird: We need to do something. We need to do something.
Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Yes. I have looked here at this letter provided by the Sundance Company and,
you know, I mean they still haven't answered the main crux of the issue that we had in
April. In looking at the minutes from the April meeting -- and we don't have that
agreement back in front of us, but my recollection was that what was stated here in the
minutes is it was the pre-development cost, was a decision by the city to not seek the
Latecomer’s Agreement. Rather, to purchase the piece, although that wasn't our
normal practice, but to purchase the piece, but at the pre-development cost. I asked
Mr. Anderson back in April what was that number, because we didn't necessarily agree
that five dollars a square foot was right amount, that was the developed cost of the
piece. At that time, in looking at the minutes, Mr. Anderson had made -- had some
discussion about where it was located and whether it was more valuable than other
pieces and back, then, I said I don't care about that, that wasn't the issue, the issue was
pre-development cost. This 98,000-dollar figure doesn't tell me anything. It just says
we changed our mind, now it's 98,000. Well, again, if they don't want to tell us -- and
that's what that agreement said in my recollection that we argued about in April, was
that's what it had to be, we are not going to pay it. Unless they get more -- you know,
more detailed and more specific as to what we are paying for, we are not going to pay
anything for it. Do you have more information than this letter? This isn't anything
different than you told us before. It's just a different number.
Anderson: Council Members, my name is Ryan Anderson, 1453 Shellbrook in
Meridian, Idaho. I am before you again -- last time in April I was asked to go through
and do a discounted price on a cash basis and that's what I presented in the letter. I
really haven't had any -- I mean any further contact, nobody's responded to that letter. I
haven't heard anything different on that until as of last Friday I was told that I was back
on the agenda. As far as the cost of the property we discussed, I have had pre-
development sales up there, both to Ada County Highway District and to Sutherland
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August 5, 2003
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Farms for a development piece that they were doing and that ranged from three and a
half dollars to about 11 dollars a square foot. That is why about a year and a half,
almost two years ago, we went ahead and spent time with your guys' staff and came up
with that five dollar number as a reasonable and fair number to start with, so that's
where that number came from. For this letter I went ahead and pulled about 10,000
dollars off that as an incentive to do a cash price, instead of going through and doing a
latecomers fee, which is how I came about that number.
De Weerd: So, Mr. Anderson, with that discount, what would the price be per square
foot?
Anderson: I, actually, didn't go through and calculate it that way. It's probably four and
a quarter, four and a half dollars a square foot, probably. Just to reiterate, I did do
appraisals, the whole works, with Ada County Highway District and those numbers
ranged from seven and a half dollars to well over 10 dollars a square foot for the
property that's very close to where you guys are at.
De Weerd: For pre-development?
Anderson: And this is all pre-developed price. They won't pay for anything additional to
that. I have actually -- I have got Idaho Power paid an easement that was almost this
value for the same -- I mean for frontage on Overland and you guys are within a couple
hundred feet of that.
De Weerd: I think the argument, though, at that time and it remains that, is you wouldn't
have value without the well site there, because you would not have the water.
Anderson: But I don't think I should be penalized and have to subsidize the rest of the
development that uses that water by paying for the entire property myself. That's why
we are trying to come up with an agreeable price on it.
Bird: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Ryan, can you give us a bottom line -- I mean you have went from five to four and
a quarter now. Give us a bottom line of what cash is and, you know, we will give you
the cash, which you get your money up front to work with --
Anderson: Sure.
Bird: -- and if we go latecomers, then, you get it as it comes through.
Anderson: Right.
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August 5, 2003
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Bird: And, you know, that could drag out ten years, as we all know. Get back to Brad or
-- to Brad with a final figure and let's see what we can work out, if we can't work
something out and get it taken care of. You know, help us out all you can.
Anderson: Can I get some sort of indication on what sort of time frames we are looking
at?
Bird: For getting back to us?
Anderson: No. In --
Bird: If we pay you?
Anderson: Providing I respond rather quickly.
Bird: Oh, I think if we agreed we could get you paid immediately. If it was agreeable,
yes, we could get you paid immediately.
De Weerd: Do we want this back on the agenda in a week or two weeks?
Bird: I wouldn't mind it, Madam President. I think we should. Let's get it taken care of
one way or the other.
De Weerd: So, what is your recommendation?
Bird: Well, I think we ought to have it back for the -- can you give us a final figure next -
- by the end of this week?
Anderson: I certainly can.
Bird: Okay. Get it to Brad. Let's do it the 12th
.
De Weerd: Okay. We will put this back on the agenda, then, Mr. Clerk, on August 12th
and you will get that back to Brad, so we can get the information in our packets.
Anderson: I most certainly will.
De Weerd: Okay.
Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I guess I'm not totally clear what Council Member Bird is asking for that's going to
be different than what we already have.
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August 5, 2003
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Bird: What the bottom line of what they will take cash for.
Nary: I thought that 98,000 was it?
Bird: No. He said he already lowered it to -- that was five dollars or something. He had
already lowered it to four and a quarter.
Nary: Right. I thought -- I guess I -- is it going to be different than 98,000?
Anderson: I'll take a look at it again and that's what I'm being asked to do.
Nary: I'm sorry?
Anderson: That's what I'm being asked to do, so I will.
De Weerd: So, Mr. Anderson, will take a look at it and get his proposal to our staff.
Nary: And could we have, then, next week, because I don't have it in this stuff, what the
agreement was to begin with, because we had it in the last time. If we can have what
the agreement -- we were looking at an agreement the last time. That was what we
were basing on what we thought we should have to pay is a relation to what the
agreement was and it's referenced in the minutes and I recall that we were looking at a
document of some sort.
Watson: Council Member Nary, I will completely duplicate the packet from April 22nd
,
whatever was in there --
Nary: Okay. That would be great.
Watson: -- make sure that it will be there for next week and if I could just ask one
clarification. Is there any other information I should be expecting or looking for from
Ryan for next week's packet?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Is there additional information that you desire from staff?
Bird: No. I just want a bottom line of what they have to have for that property and what
we are willing to pay.
De Weerd: Okay. Okay. Thank you.
Anderson: Thank you.
Item 5. Request for Reconsideration and Re-opening Public Hearings for
Callister Development AZ 03-002 and CPA 03-001:
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August 5, 2003
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De Weerd: Okay. Item Number 5, request for a reconsideration of reopening public
hearings for Callister Development, AZ 03-002 and CPA 03-001. Anna, would you like
to open the discussion?
Powell: Madam President, Members of the Council, I guess I, actually, anticipated that
the applicant would bring his request before you, rather than myself.
De Weerd: Okay. I know the applicant's here. Please state your name and address.
McKinnon: Dave McKinnon, 12552 West Executive Drive, representing Pinnacle
Engineering. Madam President, Members of the Council, I guess I don't take no for an
answer very easily. I know that you have already denied this project one time. I'm
asking for reconsideration of this project and after talking with the applicant for the
project, he's requested that we remove from the table the request for contractor's
storage yard. Three weeks ago when we met there was a lot of discussion about the
contractor's storage yard and the inability for us to be able to screen that to your
satisfaction, so our client has asked that we take that off the table. He's requested that
this project be put back on in front of you with just the mini storage uses and, then, the
remaining parcel that was to remain vacant, to allow that to remain vacant as well. The
issues regarding screening, such as the type of fencing adjacent to Bear Creek would
still remain the same and the non-tiling of the Hardin Drain would remain the same. We
are just asking that you re-hear that without the input of the contractor's storage yard,
as you haven't yet adopted the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law to make the
decision final yet and ask that you would reconsider that. We are willing to pay the
additional fees for the re-noticing and we felt that with the mini storage this would be a
use that would -- that would be justifiable on that piece of property, as there is no sewer
service available to that site. The office use would remain as well, but without the
contractor's storage yard. There is -- you know there is not a precedent for what I'm
requesting, but, however, there is a mini storage facility that has already been approved
by this body immediately adjacent to Bear Creek. The -- whether or not it's justifiable in
that location is something that is not necessarily debatable, but, rather, something that
has happened once before and it's justifiable in one location. It seems like it may be
justifiable in another and we would ask that you reconsider the Comprehensive Plan
amendment for this and the annexation and Rezone request. Ask if you have any
questions.
De Weerd: Council, do you have any questions?
Bird: I have none.
Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
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August 5, 2003
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Nary: Mr. McKinnon, so with the -- we would still need the Comprehensive Plan
Amendment, because the storage units wouldn't be compatible with the zone that's
already designated?
McKinnon: Well, Madam President, Commissioner Nary, the Meridian Comprehensive
Plan as adopted does not have what would be considered as a consistency matrix
where it says that land use designation of mixed use neighborhood doesn't say
anywhere in the Comprehensive Plan as to what type of zoning that means. It doesn't
say this should be C-G, it could be C-N, or it could be R-40. There is no direction in the
Comprehensive Plan saying these are the types of zoning that are applicable to the
land use designation on the Comprehensive Plan. Our understanding from staff's
direction is that the C-G zoning is not the zoning that they expected in the community
mixed use neighborhood, but, rather, they expected to see either a mixture of zones or
a zone with a less intense land use classification, such as C-N, commercial
neighborhood, rather than commercial general. Under staff's interpretation, that the
mini storage is not something that would typically be allowed through the Comp Plan in
a neighborhood mixed use zone. If you feel that it would be -- that the C-G zone -- the
requested C-G zone should be allowed through the Comprehensive Plan, the existing
Comprehensive Plan, that would be something that we could withdraw as well.
Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Is that right, Mrs. Powell? There is no designated particular zone or we couldn't
do this -- this type of mixed-use neighborhood zoning in some sort of development
agreement to limit the uses on this site? I guess I just hate amending the Comp Plan. I
really don't feel compelled to want to do that, but I don't have a big concern about a mini
storage. In fact, I think there was a lot of discussion in the Comp Plan about having a
mini storage zone, because we seem to have a lot of these. Isn't there a way to do this
without amending the Comp Plan?
Powell: Can I ask the counsel a question before we continue much longer the attorney,
actually? Is this hearing that we are doing -- it seems like we are crossing that line into
having a hearing at this point. Should we be having this discussion or is it, really, just a
discussion as to whether to put this on before a hearing? Since I got caught once
today.
Nary: I can maybe at least clarify what I'm asking before we even get to that question.
The reason I'm asking the question -- and Mr. Nichols can comment -- is because
before we reconsider. Then, set this over for that discussion, I'm trying to figure out
what do we need to actually set over. Do we need to set over the Comp Plan
discussion or does that even make any difference, or are we just going to deal with this
issue of the zone or not and whether it's compatible with the zone?
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Powell: It is true that we do not have a land use consistency matrix similar to Boise
City, which says that there is -- this zoning is applicable in these Comprehensive Plan
designations. Yes, it is true that -- so in that sense, it's true that there is nothing that
says because it's neighborhood commercial, that it has to be -- or because it's mixed
use neighborhood center, that it has to be a neighborhood commercial designation.
Likewise, it doesn't say that if it says residential, it has to be a residential designation. If
you're picking the use to go there, then, it would seem that the zone should be
appropriate for the Comp Plan designation.
Nary: So, I guess, ultimately, we could -- if we wanted to reconsider, we should
probably set all three of them over and, then, that would also give you time to review it
again to see if maybe the Comp Plan amendment isn't necessary. I don't know.
Powell: That could be.
Nary: It sounds like it may be a decision you could possibly make on whether or not it's
even applicable to this application.
Powell: It could be. Yes.
Nary: Because that was done prior to you becoming the director, wasn't that correct?
Powell: Correct.
Nary: Okay.
Powell: And there is a different mix of uses now. I think that the question is not so
much the mini storage use, as the zoning on the -- the large amount of property that
would not have a use proposed on it at this time and pre-zoning that for a number of
uses that would be allowed in a C-G zone.
Nary: And that I've tread over it too much, Mr. Nichols, are we --
Nichols: Anna, I don't know that I got asked a question yet.
Powell: I think it's moot now, but I suppose the question was -- it sounded like we were
getting into a hearing and I wasn't prepared for a hearing today, so I was a little
uncomfortable.
Nichols: I don't think this is the same issue that we were looking at before.
Powell: Okay.
McKinnon: Councilman Nary, if I could address a question that you had for Anna as
well. In the request letter that I sent to you, I recommended that you could, through a
Development Agreement, restrict all of the uses in the C-G zone, even though it's -- the
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August 5, 2003
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C-G zone, through the Development Agreement, limit all of those uses to a Conditional
Use Permit in the future and so it could be handled in that manner.
Powell: Madam President, Members of the Council, I don't know -- on these
reconsiderations, do you address the issue of the additional fees now or do you
address them if you decide to rehear it or -- to me it seems like basically a new
application coming through, so just paying for additional noticing doesn't necessarily
seem appropriate. I'd like to discourage these, in all honesty but that's your decision.
De Weerd: Council.
Bird: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I believe -- I think in our ordinance or something somewhere, if it's a new -- and
this is basically being a new application, they pay the regular fees. I don't think there is
any -- I don't think there is any give or take. I think it's just like a new application now,
because they are changing, they are withdrawing stuff and they are changing, so I just
-- I got a question, Madam President, for the attorney. What -- now how do we do this
to -- if we decide to reconsider and reopen it and -- what do we do with the other three
that we had already denied? Just set them aside?
Nichols: Madam President, Members of the Council, if you choose to reconsider this
issue, then, those draft findings that are before you would become void, I mean they
would -- because they would apply to the original plan and application and not the one
that's proposed in the context of the reconsideration. They would go away and, then,
you would hear the revised plan, you would reconsider that, and, then, make your new
findings based upon your decision then.
De Weerd: I think that the change is significant. It would have to go back through
Planning and Zoning and so it's basically a new application. What you're proposing is
not what we denied. It's half of it, but it's still significant in change that it should be a
new application. You know, I guess in some instances that when we look at
reconsideration, things are pretty minor and they are answering some issues that were
very prominent and -- as reasons for denying. You're changing the face of this
application significantly by taking half of it out. In my opinion -- and I am only one vote -
- is this should go through the process again. It basically needs to anyway.
Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I think if I'm guessing correctly, Dave, the reason that you're asking for
reconsideration is predominately because of the Comp Plan Amendment and not
having to wait for another lengthy period of time, if that was necessary, which is part of
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August 5, 2003
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the reason why I asked the other question of whether or not we actually even need that.
I guess I'd agree with Council President de Weerd, that I guess for me to reconsider
something is probably only in a couple circumstances. One, that we didn't have the
correct information or enough information and for some reason we couldn't have had it
at the time, some circumstance has changed that we couldn't have known at the time,
or that the change is so minor and so minuscule that changing it is not going to really
significantly impact the development. In those situations, I'd really be pretty sticky
about it anyway. Although you're proposing something that sounds better, I think it does
have to go through the process again. I do think a second look at it by the Planning and
Zoning Department really may solve the problem you're probably the most -- you and
your clients are most concerned with, which is the Comp Plan issue. I think it's
probably something that can be resolved at the Planning and Zoning staff level or
certainly at the Commission level. I just don't see from a reconsideration standpoint
that if we are going to have some standard -- and I guess like I said, to me, the
standard should be that there is new information that we were not able to have or we
had incorrect information at the time. I don't really see that here. You have just
basically tried to make the project more appealing, which is admirable, but I think it still
has to go through the process and go get done. Like I said, I think it can probably get to
where you want it to go, but I just don't see a reason to reconsider it for me.
McKinnon: Madam President, Members of the Council, as you remember, this is a
project that started, geez, nine months ago almost now and it was continually held up
and continually held up based on the North Meridian Area Plan. This is a project that
we have been waiting on an answer for, you know, several months. Then, to have the
answer no and to be told to start all over again through a three to four month process is
something that we were hoping to avoid, because that will take us for over a year to get
through this project as far as the changes. The -- you nailed it right on the head,
Councilman Nary, by saying this -- we are trying to make this more appealing to the
Council. We believe that the changes that are being made are not major, because we
are taking out the one thing that you vehemently were opposed to and said that's gone.
The Planning and Zoning Commission recommended approval of the project with the
one item that you found the most offensive, so to say that it needs to go back to the
Planning and Zoning Commission to look at something without the offending item
seems to be a lot of extra labor that doesn't necessarily need to happen.
Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: But if you recall, too, Dave, there was some testimony as well about the ditch,
about tiling it.
McKinnon: That's correct.
Meridian City Council Meeting
August 5, 2003
Page 15 of 56
Nary: So, I mean there was a lot of discussion about that as well and we didn't have to
get there, because of the issue of the contractor's yard. Again, I don't -- I think in our
discussion tonight I don't see -- I don't see a reason to reconsider.
McKinnon: Okay.
Nary: I recognize it was delayed for other reasons, but, honestly -- and I know you
weren't part of this project at the outset, but we didn't make them come forward with a
contractor's yard across the street from a large subdivision. We didn't ask them to bind
these together that way. They could have done it differently. That's the way they chose
to do it. They have to live with the outcome of their choice. I don't -- and I think the
delay, again, that wasn't caused by us. Again, that delay isn't something that we are
necessarily at fault for, but to ask us to reconsider, as I said, at least for me, says that
we have either made an error or that we have had information that was incomplete or
incorrect and we don't have any of that.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further questions for the applicant? Okay. Thank you.
McKinnon: Thank you.
De Weerd: So, Mr. Attorney, I imagine that no motion to -- for reconsideration of this is
an indication of the direction the Council desires or should we ask for a motion either
way?
Nichols: Madam President, it's preferable to have a motion either one way or the other,
although in the past if there has been no motion or a motion was made and there is no
second to reconsider, that's also an answer. We have treated -- I guess you have one
way to yes and two ways to no on this particular type of decision.
De Weerd: Okay. Well, Council, I would --
Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Yes.
Nary: I was going to say, maybe the third way, really, is we did pull off the D, E, and F. If
we approve D, E, and F, that's, really, all we have to do.
De Weerd: Okay.
Nary: They have asked for a re-consideration. I guess, Mr. Nichols, if no one wants to
make that motion, I guess we move on.
Item 6. (Items Moved from Consent Agenda)
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August 5, 2003
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D. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Denial: AZ 03-
002 Request for annexation and zoning of 19.79 acres from RUT
to C-G zones for Callister Development by Dave Callister –
southwest corner of West Overland Road and South Stoddard
Road:
E. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Denial: CUP 03-
001 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a contractor’s yard
for an excavation company and mini-storage facilities on 5.91 acres
for Callister Development by Dave Callister – southwest corner of
West Overland Road and South Stoddard Road:
F. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Denial: CPA 03-
001 Request for a Comprehensive Plan Amendment to change
approximately 12.25 acres of the site from mixed-use-
neighborhood to commercial for Callister Development by Dave
Callister – southwest corner of West Overland Road and South
Stoddard Road:
De Weerd: Okay. Then, we will move on to Item Number 6, which is items pulled from
the Consent Agenda, Items D, E and F, and I would consider a motion on those items.
Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I would move the approval of Item 6-D, 6-E and 6-F, the Findings of Facts and
Conclusions of Law for denial of AZ 03-002, the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of
Law for denial of CUP 03-001. The Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law for denial
of CPA 03-001, the three items being request for annexation and zoning of 19.79 acres
for RUT to a C-G zone for Callister Development at the southwest corner of West
Overland Road and South Stoddard Road. For the request for the Conditional Use
Permit for the contractor's yard, for an excavation company and mini storage facilities
on 5.91 acres for Callister Development. Finally, the request for the Comprehensive
Plan amendment to change approximately 12.25 acres of the site from mixed-use
neighborhood to commercial for Callister Development, again, at the southwest corner
of West Overland Road and South Stoddard Road. That's it.
McCandless: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve the Findings of Facts and
Conclusions of Law for denial on Callister Development, Items D, E, and F. Mr. Clerk,
roll call vote.
Roll call: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; de Weerd, aye; Bird, aye.
Meridian City Council Meeting
August 5, 2003
Page 17 of 56
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Item 7. Ordinance No.: : AZ 00-026 Request for
annexation and zoning of 5.4 acres from Ada County RT zone to R-8 for a
proposed Planned Development for proposed Bear Creek Subdivision
No. 6 (fka / approved as Kodiak Development) by Bear Creek LLC –
west of Meridian Road one-half mile south of Overland Road:
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Item Number 7, Ordinance Number 03-1033. Mr. Clerk,
will you, please, read the ordinance by title only.
Berg: Thank you, Madam President. Ordinance Number 03-1033, an ordinance finding
that certain land to be part of Bear Creek Subdivision and the Bear Creek, LLC, are
owners of certain real property located at 2435 South Meridian Road, which lies
contiguous or adjacent to the city limits of the City of Meridian, County of Ada, State of
Idaho, and finding that the owner has made a request for annexation in writing to the
Council and that said land be annexed to the City of Meridian and zoning designated
Medium Density Residential District (R-8) and declaring that said land by proper legal
description as described below, be a part of the City of Meridian, County of Ada, State
of Idaho, repealing all ordinances, resolutions, orders, or parts thereof, in conflict
herewith, and directing the city engineer to add said property to the official maps of the
City of Meridian, Idaho, and directing the clerk of the City of Meridian to file a certified
copy of the ordinance and map of the areas to be annexed with the Ada County
recorder, auditor, treasurer, and assessor and the State Tax Commission of the State of
Idaho, pursuant to Idaho Code Section 50-223 and Section 63-2215.
De Weerd: Thank you. You have heard the reading of Ordinance 03-1033 by title only.
Is there anyone in the audience who would like to have the ordinance read in full?
Hearing none, Council?
McCandless: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mrs. McCandless.
McCandless: I move that we approve Ordinance Number 03-1033, the request for
annexation and zoning of 5.4 acres from Ada County RT zone to R-8 for a proposed
Planned Development for proposed Bear Creek Subdivision No. 6 by Bear Creek, LLC,
west of Meridian Road, one half mile south of Overland Road, with suspension of rules.
Nary: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve Ordinance 03-1033. Mr.
Clerk, roll call?
Roll call: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; de Weerd, aye; Bird, aye.
Meridian City Council Meeting
August 5, 2003
Page 18 of 56
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Item 8. Ordinance No.: : RZ 03-006 Request for a
Rezone of 3.41 acres from R-4 to R-8 zones for Bear Creek No. 6 by
Westpark Company – west of South Meridian Road and south of West
Overland Road:
De Weerd: Okay. Item Number 8, Ordinance Number 03-1034, request for a Rezone
of 3.41 acres from R-4 to R-8 zones for Bear Creek No. 6 by Westpark Company. Mr.
Clerk, will you, please, read 03-1034 by title only.
Berg: Thank you, Madam President, Members of the Council. Ordinance Number 03-
1034, an ordinance finding that the owner Westpark Company for certain real property
has made a written request for Rezone of the zoning classification for real property
located west of Meridian Road, south of Overland Road, Meridian, Idaho, and that the
land that lies within the boundaries of the City of Meridian from R-4, low density
residential district, zoning district, to R-8, medium density residential district, as defined
under Meridian City Code Section 11-7-2D, repealing all ordinances, resolutions, orders
or parts thereof, in conflict herewith, and directing the city engineer to add said rezoning
designations to the official maps of the City of Meridian, Idaho.
De Weerd: Thank you. You have heard this ordinance by title only. Is there anyone
who would like to have it read in its entirety? Hearing none, Council?
McCandless: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mrs. McCandless.
McCandless: I move that we approve Ordinance Number 03-1034, a request for a
Rezone of 3.41 acres from R-4 to R-8 zones for Bear Creek No. 6 by Westpark
Company, west of South Meridian Road and south of West Overland Road, with
suspension of rules.
Nary: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve Ordinance 03-1034. Mr.
Clerk, roll call.
Roll call: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; de Weerd, aye; Bird, aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Item 9. Ordinance No.: : AZ 03-006 Request for
annexation and zoning of 397.11 acres from RUT and R-1 zones to R-8,
R-40, L-O, and C-G zones for proposed Paramount Subdivision by
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August 5, 2003
Page 19 of 56
Paramount, LLC – west of North Meridian Road and north of West
McMillan Road:
De Weerd: Okay. Item Number 9, Ordinance Number 03-1035, request for annexation
and zoning of 397.11 acres from RUT and R-1 to R-8, R-40, L-O, and C-G zones for the
proposed Paramount Subdivision by Paramount, LLC. Mr. Clerk, will you, please, read
this ordinance by title only.
Berg: Thank you, Madam President, Members of the Council. Ordinance Number 03-
1035, an ordinance finding that Ron and Becky Hanks, Sheridan Kooyers, Meridian
Joint School District No. 2, Paramount, LLC, and Dwaine and Sharon Wolfe, the owners
of certain real property generally located within the square mile of Chinden Road,
Meridian Road, McMillan Road, and Linder Road, Meridian, Idaho, to be known as
Paramount Subdivision and which lies contiguous or adjacent to the city limits of the
City of Meridian, County of Ada, State of Idaho, has made a request for annexation in
writing to the Council and that said land be annexed to the City of Meridian and zoning
designated Medium Density Residential District (R-8), High Density Residential District
(R-40), Limited Office District (L-O), and General Retail and Service Commercial District
(C-G), and declaring that the said land, by proper legal description as described below,
be a part of the City of Meridian, County of Ada, State of Idaho, repealing all
ordinances, resolutions, orders, or parts thereof, in conflict herewith, and directing the
city engineer to add said property to the official maps of the City of Meridian, Idaho, and
directing the clerk of the City of Meridian to file a certified copy of the ordinance and
map of the areas to be annexed with the Ada County recorder, auditor, treasurer, and
assessor and the State Tax Commission of the State of Idaho, pursuant to Idaho Code
Section 50-223 and Section 63-2215.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Clerk. You have heard this ordinance by title only. Is there
anyone who would like it read in its entirety? Okay. Hearing none, I would accept a
motion.
McCandless: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mrs. McCandless.
McCandless: I move that we approve Ordinance Number 03-1035, request for
annexation and zoning of 397.11 acres from RUT and R-1 zones to R-8, R-40, L-O, and
C-G zones for proposed -- I'm sorry I'm on the wrong one. No, I'm not. For proposed
Paramount Subdivision by Paramount, LLC, west of North Meridian Road and north of
West McMillan Road, with suspension of rules.
Nary: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve Ordinance Number 03-
1035. Mr. Clerk, please, call roll.
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August 5, 2003
Page 20 of 56
Roll call: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; de Weerd, aye; Bird, aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Item 10. Public Hearing: VAC 03-003 Request for a Vacation of a sewer
easement on Lot 2 Block 1 of Pack It Up Subdivision by Pinnacle
Engineers – north of East Overland Road approximately one-half mile
west of South Eagle Road:
De Weerd: Okay. Item Number 10 has been requested to be tabled, so I would accept
a motion to table to September 2nd
.
Bird: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that we continue --
De Weerd: Oh, Mr. Nichols, I'm sorry.
Nichols: Madam President, Members of the Council, I think you need to open the
hearing and, then, continue it for that date.
De Weerd: Okay. I will, then, open Item Number 10, the Public Hearing for VAC 03-
003, request for vacation of a sewer easement on Lot 2, Block 1, of Pack It Up
Subdivision by Pinnacle Engineers. Mr. Bird.
Bird: Madam President, I move that we continue the Public Hearing for VAC 03-003, to
September 2, 2003.
McCandless: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to continue the Public Hearing for
Pack It Up Subdivision to September 2nd
. All those in favor say aye.
De Weerd: Okay. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Item 11. Public Hearing: CUP 03-023 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for
an ancillary drive-thru for a full-service bank facility and for a temporary
bank facility in a C-G zone for D. L. Evans Bank by D. L. Evans Bank –
2560 East Fairview Avenue:
De Weerd: Item Number 11 is a Public Hearing for CUP 03-023, request for a
Conditional Use Permit for an ancillary drive-thru for a full service bank facility and for a
Meridian City Council Meeting
August 5, 2003
Page 21 of 56
temporary bank facility in a C-G zone for D.L. Evans Bank and I will open the Public
Hearing with staff comments.
Powell: Madam President, Members of the Council, this is a request for a drive-thru
bank. The property that you see outlined there is larger than what is proposed. It is in
this corner over here. It is proposed on a lot within the Mallane Subdivision that is not
yet recorded. We do have a letter from the applicant -- we wouldn't accept a
Conditional Use Permit until they provided a letter stating that recognize that it was not
a lot in the subdivision and that they would have to wait until the subdivision was
recorded before they could pull a Building Permit. That will be an issue tonight. They
are now asking that that condition be removed. Regardless, this is the location of the
property. It is in this corner here. Louie's is in the center parcel there. Fairview Avenue
and, then -- I forgot the other street name. Hickory. Thank you. The aerials were
before the development of Louie's. This is -- the bank facility is here. It has access
from Fairview and, then, it comes around through to Hickory. They are requesting the
use of a temporary bank at first in this location with a separate drive aisle and drive-thru
and, then, that will be removed as the larger bank is completed. There is a temporary
bank. It's in a move-on unit that they can, then, move off later. You can see the cross-
access agreements here. They also will be providing one here for the subdivision and
that's their exit onto Hickory. During the Planning and Zoning Commission hearing the
majority of the discussion was just on, the general site layout. There was discussion
about increasing the stall lengths -- or, actually, shortening the stall lengths and
increasing the width of the sidewalks here, so that -- instead of 19 and five, it was six
and 17, I believe, or 19 and 4. They just moved the extra two feet to the sidewalk. The
other -- the only other discussion was largely on just amending the conditions of
approval to reflect additional items that had been brought in since the staff report had
been completed. There are really no outstanding issues, unless you, again, want to
address the parking stalls. There is the question of the -- question of when to release
the Building Permit that the applicant will bring up to you and I think with that we will
end staff's comments.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you, Anna. Any questions for Anna?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Is the applicant here? Do you promise and affirm that the testimony
you give tonight is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you?
Strite: I do.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Strite: Madam President --
De Weerd: Please state your name and address.
Meridian City Council Meeting
August 5, 2003
Page 22 of 56
Strite: I'm about to do that, Madam President.
De Weerd: Okay.
Strite: Billy Ray Strite, 1010 Allante, Boise, Idaho. Madam President, Council, we have
reviewed the staff report and, as you well have, and it's very positive, we are happy with
the results. I think it was endorsed strongly by the Planning and Zoning Commission
and we certainly are aware of the conditions imposed and with one exception have
absolutely no problem with those conditions. I would, however, ask for your
consideration relative to Item Number 1, if you will, Page 2 on your packet, relative to
the Final Plat. We did write a letter, as Anna has mentioned. At that particular time, we
were told by the seller, who is Chris Mallane, that the plat was, in fact, being recorded.
As it turns out -- and I spoke to staff today and Brad informs me that that has not been
completed, that it's presently in his hands, with some conditions requested of Mr.
Mallane, those being a surety and there was a couple of items, one of which Anna has
already mentioned, and that was the cross-access to Hickory Drive. Having said that,
D.L. Evans, obviously, would like to become part your community and asks that I ask
that Item Number 1 perhaps be rewritten, if you will, to suggest that the recordation be
based upon the occupancy permit for the temporary facility only and in doing so that
would allow us to move forward. As of today, the applicant, D.L. Evans Bank and the
seller, Chris Mallane, have come to an agreement, should it be the desire of the Council
to agree to this, to lease this property, so that the project can move forward, we would,
then, submit a CZC, assuming we would have that completed and ready to submit
possibly this week. Then, my suggestion is that by the time staff has completed the
plat, it's moved on to Ada County, we will have had a Building Permit, construction
started, and the temporary facility in place -- and, again, ask that the Occupancy Permit
be the trigger point from which the Final Plat be recorded. That's it in a nutshell. I will
answer any questions as you wish.
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Strite: Thank you.
De Weerd: I guess I would have one of staff. I know we have put some of these
conditions on before, that it's based on occupancy and I know that it's been an issue of
how to enforce that once the building is -- do we have enforcement issues on that?
Powell: Madam President, you always have the ability to withhold their certificate of
occupancy. You have a little different situation here in that the property of record
includes the parcel that Louie's is currently constructed on, so there is not a Building
Permit available to this property. The applicant's representative believes that -- well, he
doesn't believe this part. There was a Planned Development -- there was a Planned
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August 5, 2003
Page 23 of 56
Development approved on the property to allow two buildings. Those two buildings
were a restaurant -- or two restaurants. Louie's was one of them and, then, one to the
west of Louie's. There has been a PD approved for two buildings on this property, but
staff would argue that the second building being proposed is not what was approved the
first time. You have two issues. The one issue is having more than one structure on
the property and, then, the second one of enforcing it and, yes, we can -- we can tie
these things to the certificate of occupancy once you have released -- I mean if all goes
well, it is isn't a problem, it's when things don't go well that it becomes the problem. If,
for some reason the subdivision failed to get to recorded and they finish their building,
the city is in an awkward position of saying, okay, you have spent all your money on
your building, but, sorry, we can't let you in.
Bird: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Yes, but if that is attached to the issuance of the Building Permit and stuff and
with the Final Plat, there is no problem. Everybody knows up front, D.L. Evans Bank
knows up front if they don't have everything in line they are not going to get in.
Powell: That is true. It's just that the subdivision is under the control of a different
person.
Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: But if I understood Mr. Strite, they are willing to live with that risk.
Strite: Madam President?
Nary: Is that correct?
Strite: Commissioner Nary, that's absolutely correct.
Nary: Okay. I guess it won't be that awkward for us, we just say you knew it, so, tough
luck. I mean -- so I guess I don't -- I guess your -- my assumption is that you're
assuming none of that is going to be a problem? It's going to get recorded and it will all
get done.
Strite: Madam President, Councilman Nary, well, obviously, I think it behooves the
seller and the buyer to complete their transaction. Obviously, you cannot have one
without the other. In my opinion, it appears that this might give the seller maybe a little
more incentive, since we are constructing this on his site as a lease property.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions?
Meridian City Council Meeting
August 5, 2003
Page 24 of 56
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Strite: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Is there anyone else who would like to testify on this item? Okay.
Council?
Nary: Madam President, could I ask one more question?
De Weerd: Yes. Mr. Nary.
Nary: So, if I understood -- just so I'm right, if we are going to approve this project, all
Mr. Strite was asking is to amend condition one and, basically, make the wording be the
Final Plat for the subdivision must be recorded prior to the issuance of the certificate of
occupancy, rather than the Certificate of Zoning Compliance. Is that the only change?
Okay. Thank you.
Bird: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Anna, you don't have any problem with that, do you?
Powell: Well, you're asking the Building Department to release a second Building
Permit on a parcel that's not eligible for it.
De Weerd: That's why we have these discussions while the Public Hearing is still open.
Nary: That's why our meetings take four hours.
Strite: Madam President and Council, Billy Ray Strite once again. As Anna had
suggested, I do not agree with that analysis. If you go back to the 1996 approval, it
does suggest under page seven of that approval that two buildings are approved on this
single site. It does, in fact, suggest that those two buildings are restaurants, but I'm not
sure that the Council doesn't have the ability to take the position that it is two buildings,
whether one is a restaurant or one is not a restaurant. Again, on Page 7 it says the
piece of property consists of seven acres that proposes to build two restaurants on the
southwest corner of the parcel. I'm suggesting that there was an allowance to build two
buildings, what we are requesting, as well as having the condition changed, that that
one building is no longer a restaurant, it is, in fact, a temporary bank tied to the
conditions of the occupancy permit as requested.
De Weerd: Okay. Well, you have clarified that.
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August 5, 2003
Page 25 of 56
Strite: Well, I don't know if I did a very good job. Perhaps, Mr. Nichols can chime in,
but in seeing the approval, that's the way it reads to me, and I think even at the end in
the normal discussion of approved uses it makes use, as the recommendation was a
planned commercial development without any necessary definition of the buildings in
the final approval, which was unanimously approved. That occurs on page 13 of that
1996 approval.
Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: It probably wouldn't be harmful, then, to anybody, Mr. Strite, if we just made it
clear in the findings that no other buildings will be allowed on this site; right? I don't
want someone coming back -- not you, because you would never do that, but someone
else coming back saying, oh, we want that restaurant now. There are two restaurants,
you guys approved that bank, and that was something else. If we made it clear in the
findings that no other -- no other Building Permits would be allowed on this site until it's
recorded, that shouldn't be a problem.
Strite: Madam President, Councilman Nary, obviously, I would never come back
suggesting such a thing, but I think it would be appropriate to make that part of the
findings and, certainly, D.L. Evans is expecting that.
Nary: I just didn't want to see Carl's Jr. or something come back.
De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Thank you.
Strite: That's enough. I'm done. Thank you.
De Weerd: Mr. Nichols is there anything you would like to add?
Nichols: Madam President, Members of the Council, just to say I wasn't here in 1996
and ask that any motion would be very specific, so that we have -- on any limitations
that are imposed that we include those. Then -- I guess maybe a question for Mr. Strite,
again, making him pop up again. Mr. Strite, does your client need any help getting the
seller to resolve the issue and get the Final Plat done?
Strite: Madam President, Mr. Nichols, it's my understanding, again, having spoke to
Brad today and, again, this evening, that everything is in motion. He's made his
comments, they have been sent back, he's awaiting a surety and I believe a couple of
conditions to be completed. ACHD has already signed the plat, as I understand it, so
also has Central District Health. The biggest part -- well, I shouldn't say the biggest
part, because when it reaches Ada County, that's the biggest part. The smaller parts
have been completed and I think it's going to move forward. As I mentioned earlier, I
think it behooves both parties to complete this, especially if there is construction on the
Meridian City Council Meeting
August 5, 2003
Page 26 of 56
site. There is going to be some type of indemnification, I'm assuming, and certainly,
you would know that better than I, between the two parties. It's going to behoove them
both to move forward as rapidly as possible.
Nichols: Madam President, I'd just ask that the findings be very specific with regard to
any limitations that are to be imposed upon the Mallane Subdivision.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Powell: Madam President?
De Weerd: Anna.
Powell: If the motion could also include direction to staff as to -- the applicant is
currently requesting that if this is approved that he be able to file -- or request a Building
Permit immediately, like tomorrow. Generally, we at least wait until the findings have
been adopted in two weeks, so that was part of his request. I just want to know what
we should do regarding that.
Strite: Madam President, let me clarify that. I think what I was proposing is we would
be prepared to submit for our CZC tomorrow, not a permit -- we have to go through that
process first, obviously. I'm sorry. That's what I meant, the CZC first, that's going to
take at least ten days and, then, we would be submitting for a Building Permit, at which
time I would suspect Findings of Fact would, then, be available.
Powell: Again, it's just generally, we wait until the findings have been adopted. If you
can give us direction.
Nichols: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: Madam President, I think maybe we could make an effort to have the findings
on next week.
Strite: Thank you very much.
De Weerd: Okay. Anything else before the applicant sits down? Okay. Council, are
you ready to close the Public Hearing?
Bird: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would move that we close Public Hearing CUP 03-023, the request for
Conditional Use Permit for a drive-thru for a full service bank facility, for a temporary
Meridian City Council Meeting
August 5, 2003
Page 27 of 56
bank facility in a C-G zone for D.L. Evans Bank by D.L. Evans Bank, 2560 East
Fairview Avenue.
Nary: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to close the Public Hearing. All those
in favor say aye. Okay. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
De Weerd: Any discussion? Okay. We'd entertain a motion, then.
Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I would move the approval of CUP 03-023, the request for Conditional Use
Permit for an ancillary drive-thru, for a full service bank facility, and for a temporary bank
facility in a C-G zone for D.L. Evans Bank by D.L. Evans Bank at 2560 East Fairview.
To include all staff comments and recommendations of the Planning and Zoning
Commission, with the amendment of condition A-1, that the Final Plat for Mallane
Subdivision must recorded prior to the issuance of a certificate of occupancy of the D.L.
Evans project. That no further Building Permits, other than for the -- I guess the bank
facility, be allowed on this property and I think if we can have the findings by next week,
Mrs. Powell, I don't know that the other one is an issue. Would that be okay? I think it's
just for the -- no issuing of further Building Permits.
McCandless: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve CUP 03-023, with
modifications. Mr. Clerk, roll call.
Roll call: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; de Weerd, aye; Bird, aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Item 12. Public Hearing: CUP 03-025 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for
a bank facility with a drive-thru window in a C-C zone for Idaho Banking
Company by Idaho Banking Company – 1875 South Eagle Road:
De Weerd: Okay. Item Number 12, Public Hearing CUP 03-025, request for a
Conditional Use Permit for a bank facility with a drive-thru window in a C-C zone for
Idaho Banking Company by Idaho Banking Company. I'll open the Public Hearing with
staff comments.
Meridian City Council Meeting
August 5, 2003
Page 28 of 56
Powell: Madam President, Members of the Council, this is another bank request on a
lot that has not yet been approved as part of a subdivision. It is within the Bonita
Subdivision, I believe, is what it's called. That's correct. The location is approximately
in this area and I have a Preliminary Plat for the approved subdivision later, if you so
desire. Again, Silverstone is on the other side of Eagle Road. This -- our north arrow
switches -- no, it doesn't. North is still going this way. This is Tarpen Drive coming off.
The site will access from another property over here. There will be a cross-access
agreement. They will enter here, come through -- there are three drive-thru lanes here,
plus an escape lane that wraps around. There is parking here, as well as here and
here. There was no public testimony presented at the hearing and there was no major
changes made during the Planning and Zoning Commission hearing. They are
forwarding a recommendation for approval to you and there are no outstanding issues.
That concludes staff's presentation.
De Weerd: Thank you, Anna. Is the applicant here? Raise your right hand. Do you
promise and affirm that the testimony you give tonight is the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Larsen: I do.
De Weerd: Please state your name and address.
Larsen: My name is Cornell Larsen. Address is 210 Murray Street in Garden City.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Larsen: Thank you. Madam President, Members of the City Council, we are here
tonight to present the Idaho Banking project to you. It's in the El Dorado Subdivision.
It's on Tarpen Street, the south side of Tarpen Street, which is the first major
intersection of that subdivision coming south on Overland Road, about right there. We
did not have any concerns about the staff report and felt like we can work through all
the conditions and we are happy with it, be happy to answer any questions you might
have.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions? Okay. Thank you.
Larsen: Thank you.
De Weerd: Is there anyone else who would like to testify on this application? Okay.
Council, any discussion before we close the Public Hearing? Okay. I would entertain a
motion.
Bird: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
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August 5, 2003
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Bird: I move that we close the Public Hearing for CUP 03-025, the request for a
Conditional Use Permit for a banking facility with a drive-thru window in a C-C zone for
Idaho Banking Company by Idaho Banking Company, 1875 South Eagle Road.
Nary: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to close the Public Hearing for CUP
03-025. All those in favor say aye. Okay. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
De Weerd: Any discussion? I would entertain a motion.
Bird: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would move that we approve CUP 03-025, the request for a Conditional Use
Permit for a bank facility with a drive-thru window in a C-C zone for Idaho Banking
Company by Idaho Banking Company, 1875 South Eagle Road. To incorporate all staff
comments and Planning and Zoning recommendations and for the attorney to draw up
Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision of Order.
Nary: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve CUP 03-025. Mr. Clerk,
please, call role.
Roll call: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; de Weerd, aye; Bird, aye.
De Weerd: Thank you.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Item 13. Public Hearing: CUP 03-031 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for
an educational facility in a 9,058 square foot tenant space in an existing
building in an L-O zone for the University of Phoenix by the University of
Phoenix – 2950 East Magicview Drive:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 13, Public Hearing for CUP 03-031, request for a Conditional
Use Permit for an educational facility in a 9,058 square foot tenant space in an existing
building in an L-O zone for University of Phoenix and I will open the Public Hearing with
staff comments.
Powell: Madam President, Members of the Council, this is located at the northwest
corner of Magicview and Allen Street as shown there. The property is currently
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August 5, 2003
Page 30 of 56
developed, the building is already in, and all the landscaping is in. The reason it's
before you tonight is because the use is not specifically listed in -- for the L-O zone and
because the subdivision was contested by the neighbors as it came through regarding
the uses allowed in the L-O zone, we wanted to be particularly careful and make sure
that we addressed those concerns so, they are before tonight. Noise was the largest
concerns from staff and they did discuss that briefly at the Planning and Zoning
Commission hearing. No neighbors showed up and I don't believe anyone even
showed up at the neighborhood meeting that they had, so it is before you tonight with a
recommendation for approval from the Planning and Zoning Commission at their
shortest hearing ever, concluded at 7:11.
De Weerd: Wow. That's amazing. Council, do you have any questions, other than
about the Planning and Zoning meeting?
Bird: That's what I was going to say --
Nary: How did they do that?
Powell: My staff presentation was three times as long as Brad's was that night. I'm
sorry.
De Weerd: Okay. Hearing no questions, is the applicant here? Do you promise and
affirm that the testimony you give tonight is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
the truth, so help you God?
Seel: Yes, I do.
De Weerd: Okay. Please state your name and address.
Seel: Yes. Jonathan Seel, 600 North Steelhead, Boise, Idaho, here on behalf of
Winston H. Moore representing the tenant the University of Phoenix. As has been
mentioned, we did have a neighborhood meeting. No one did show up at that -- at that
neighborhood meeting, so I thought I would mention that. As far as a report, I will try to
make it quick tonight, too. We have read through the staff report, we are in agreement
with everything and be certainly pleased to answer any questions, otherwise, I will sit
down.
Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Just a question. Aren't they already located in this area this is just a relocation?
They are in the other building or something, aren't they?
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August 5, 2003
Page 31 of 56
Seel: Yes, Councilman, they are. They are in the building that fronts on Eagle Road.
This will be an additional facility. They run out of space in there, so they need to
expand, so this is -- it's an excellent use and they wanted to be in proximity to that one.
Nary: Great. Thanks.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Seel: Thank you very much.
De Weerd: Okay. Is there anyone else who would like to testify on this application?
Okay. Council?
Nary: I'd move we close the Public Hearing.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. All those in favor say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
De Weerd: Okay. Any discussion before a motion is made?
Bird: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve CUP 03-031, the request for a Conditional Use Permit for an
educational facility in a 9,058 square foot tenant space in an existing building in an L-O
zone for the University of Phoenix by the University of Phoenix, 2950 East Magicview
Drive. To incorporate staff and Planning and Zoning report and also for the attorney to
draw up the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision of Order.
McCandless: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve CUP 03-031. Mr. Clerk,
roll call.
Roll call: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; de Weerd, aye; Bird, aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Item 14. Public Hearing: RZ 03-007 Request for a Rezone of .165 acres from
R-4 to O-T zones for Schroeder Apartments by H. John Cook – 921
West 2nd
Street:
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August 5, 2003
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Item 15. Public Hearing: CUP 03-026 Request for Conditional Use Permit to
remove existing house and construct four apartments, 2 story with
bedrooms on upper level, and four single garages attached in a proposed
O-T zone for Schroeder Apartments by H. John Cook – 921 West 2nd
Street:
De Weerd: Okay. If Council doesn't object, I'd like to open up both 14 and 15, Public
Hearing for RZ 03-007, request for a Rezone of .165 acres from R-4 to O-T zones for
Schroeder Apartments by H. John Cook. Also, the Public Hearing for CUP 03-026,
request for a Conditional Use Permit to remove existing house and construct four
apartments, two story, with bedrooms on upper level, and four single garages attached,
to a proposed O-T zone. I will open the Public Hearings for -- with staff comments.
Powell: Madam President, Members of the Council, this property does go -- it's off --
the access is off of Pine onto 2nd
and, then, the property does extend from 2nd
Street
through to the alley. You may remember this general location. There was a request for
a day care and Rezone on the Schmeckpeper property at this location, so some of the
same neighbors are here today, although they came to the Planning and Zoning
Commission and testified in favor of the application. There is an existing house on the
property and there were several mature, large trees that have since been removed for
development -- in anticipation of development. This is the existing boundary you see
here extends between 2nd
and the alley and there is the existing home. The Site Plan is
extremely difficult to read. I will try and walk you through it. Here is the alley. They are
proposing to pave the alley. 2nd
Street is here. You can see that they have proposed to
install curb, gutter, and sidewalk, not only on their own property, but it will extend the
same -- the Schroeder’s own this property as well. They will come down there and they
have, actually, offered to extend it all the way to Pine. The buildings -- here is -- the
townhouses run north south, there is one -- they are not townhouses. I'm sorry. Four-
plex apartments. There is one, two, three, and four. They have attached garages here.
This garage will have a direct entrance into this unit, as will this. This garage will have
an exit out here and will be for the interior apartments. They are two story apartments
with the bedrooms upstairs and the living units downstairs. Living area. There is a four-
foot path proposed through the site, extending from Pine Street to the alley. There is a
five-foot sidewalk proposed on 2nd
Street. At the Planning and Zoning Commission they
had a -- the school is back here. Excuse me. Then, they have individual patios that
look out onto the school grounds. There was a lot of discussion at the Planning and
Zoning Commission Hearing about the trash receptacles. Originally, they had proposed
one on this property, now they are looking at proposing two separate trash receptacles.
The Planning and Zoning Commission gave staff quite a bit of flexibility to work that out
with the applicant, in anticipation of finding a better solution than they could find that
night. I think that Steve has been working with them and this shows the results of that
and I think everyone is pretty much happy. Let's see. Charlene Rokovitz did testify at
the hearing in general opposition to the Old Town rezoning for fear that it will allow
additional uses on that property. Then, it was explained that this would be going in and
that any other use on that property would require another Conditional Use, so I think
she was satisfied with that. The Old Town zoning is required to allow this use on the
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August 5, 2003
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property. The applicant did work with the neighbors extensively, I believe, and got their
approval -- general approval of the units. None of them testified in opposition at the
Planning and Zoning Commission hearing. There is one item we need to discuss. The
Historic Preservation Commission did provide comments on the application that were
not addressed directly by staff at the Planning and Zoning Commission Hearing,
although they were provided in the packet, they were never addressed. I need to
review those with you now in the event that you want to address any of those concerns.
These are the elevations and I'll come back to those. Those are the floor plans. The
Historical Preservation comments were written directly on there. They also had
questions about the trash receptacles and that's the bubble that they have shown there.
These comments were in regard to existing trees. We have taken care of that. They
had requested an extension of the landscape border in this area and to plant additional
trees. That is the site where the trash receptacle got moved to, so there aren't -- there
isn't a lot of room for those trees right there. Steve has been working with them to
increase the general amount of trees on the property to, basically, maximize it, because
they did take down all the trees mature trees that were there prior to getting approval of
the apartment complex. They also wanted extension of this landscape island. This is
on the -- it is on a different lot, so this would be an off-site improvement. They were
very complimentary about the facade that faces the school grounds, which is this one.
These are -- the patios come out in these areas here. They wanted to see -- this is
what would face this alley and would face 2nd
Street and they wanted to see additional
windows, fenestration, put in this area. I think right now there is one window proposed
and they put in two additional on each side, to just break up that facade. This comment
is in regard to the windows, I think it is, here -- windows that they used here where they
are divided, they wanted a similar treatment of these windows up here. None of those
comments, again, were addressed by the Planning and Zoning Commission, so we
wanted to raise them now. That concludes staff's presentation at this time.
De Weerd: Thank you, Anna. Any questions, Council? Okay. Is the applicant here?
Do you promise and affirm that the testimony you provide tonight is the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Cook: I do.
De Weerd: Thank you. Please state your name and address.
Cook: My name is John Cook, the project architect. Address 1111 South Orchard in
Boise.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Cook: The two or three questions that have been raised by the Historical review, in
discussing them Mr. Schroeder, we are looking at item one there, extending some
landscaping, if staff would bring that Landscape Plan back. We have been -- we are in
the throws of relocating the trash enclosures and, again, we have taken that space that
they had proposed for landscaping, we are using that, basically, for our trash enclosure.
Meridian City Council Meeting
August 5, 2003
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Part of the issue in the Planning and Zoning hearing was rather than centralize the
trash, we had people walking too far, to, actually, come to the southern most trash
enclosure location, so we split the two for -- each four-plex would have its own trash
enclosure. It has not been the policy for ACHD to let us put trees on in their right of way
and we are looking at trying to get special permission to put trees on that right of way
and our concession was we put the sidewalk and curb and that sort of thing in as far as
the street improvement. We find that trying to improve that to extent and push
sprinklers and grass and maintenance out into the right of way, my client would rather
not have to be put in that position going to back to ACHD for that permission. In regard
to the window treatment on the ends of the building, if you were to look at the floor plan
-- if we would have put those extra windows. We would have a head wall where the
bedrooms are with windows in it that wouldn't leave them any head wall for a bedroom
layout at all. It's probably not a bad comment from the review, but in our particular case
our function pretty well dictates the location of windows. On Item Number 3, I believe,
trash enclosures, they would be finished with materials that would match the apartment
as far as the siding and trim and so we would have a match out on the enclosures with
the apartments. I believe that satisfies the three questions that the Commission had.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions for the applicant?
Bird: I have none.
Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Mr. Cook, just so I understand the layout, so the frontage of the building -- what
is that facing, is that the back of another house?
Cook: That is facing an existing four-plex.
Nary: Okay.
Cook: You will notice at the bottom of the screen you have got an existing four-plex and
existing garages, so we have, basically, a corridor there. That was brought up in our
previous P&Z Hearing, we'd like to maintain that as a green corridor. If we have to put
an extra tree or two, in there to maintain that, the applicant will probably add a tree or
two to the P&Z wishes.
Nary: So, that's the four-foot path area they were talking about?
Cook: Yes.
Nary: Okay.
Meridian City Council Meeting
August 5, 2003
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Cook: And we had a five foot shown there and we reduced that to four to give us a little
more grass area, a little more planting area.
Nary: And what's the fencing on the backside that's going to be facing the school? I
mean there is already a chain link there.
Cook: There is an existing chain link fence, I believe, that is going to be mandatory to
keep.
Nary: Right.
Cook: Because that's the school fencing policy and any gates that would have been
there have been closed off, basically for security of the playground.
Nary: So, is it slatted, then?
Cook: No. No. It's just open chain link.
Nary: It's just an open chain link fence. Okay.
De Weerd: And, as I understand it, the school district wants to keep that open, correct?
Cook: They would like to keep their -- they want to know who is on the other side of
that fence. Can't blame them.
De Weerd: Yes. Okay. Any further questions for the applicant? Thank you, Mr. Cook.
Okay. Thank you.
Cook: Thank you.
De Weerd: Is there anyone else who would like to testify? Do you promise and affirm
that the testimony you give tonight is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
truth, so help you God?
Schroeder: I do.
De Weerd: Please state your name and address.
Schroeder: John Schroeder, 3786 South Century, Boise, Idaho.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Schroeder: Briefly, Council, Madam President, city attorney, three points with regard to
the preservation of the overall neighborhood. We are voluntarily putting in a fire hydrant
on West 2nd
on the other side of Pine at substantial expense. Several reasons. One,
we want to enhance the neighborhood and we want closer access to a fire hydrant for
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August 5, 2003
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everyone in that area, including us. Third, we are the only area that -- in this whole part
of the city of Meridian, except for Pine, where we are putting in sidewalks, gutter -- we
are putting in gutter not only in front of both those properties, but with our neighbor's
property to the south as well, extending all the way to Pine, putting in extra sidewalk, so
with regard to historic preservation of the neighborhood, we really want to upgrade the
neighborhood immensely. We are also paving the alley all the way to Pine -- from the
school property all the way to Pine. That will enhance everyone's property as well on
that side. With regard to the end of West 2nd
Street, even though I don't have right-of-
way access to the -- it would be the eastern part, to extend that sidewalk, I am going to
keep weeds down, because, obviously, one of my biggest concerns through the whole
project is to keep that neighborhood feel when people drive into West 2nd
Street. Those
are my only comments. I wanted to mention those substantial upgrades in that
neighborhood. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Schroeder. Any questions?
Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Mr. Schroeder, I guess the one question I -- and maybe Mr. Cook would have
been the better one to ask -- but we had a discussion previously about that alley. I
would assume that alley is a two-way alley, because most of them are. I mean how
wide was the alley for ingress and egress there?
Schroeder: I don't know exactly. Maybe Mr. Cook could address that. It is sufficiently
wide for ingress and egress. I might also add that ACHD is -- and we voluntarily agreed
to do it, we are putting in a whole new curb cut with disability access on that Pine Street
sidewalk, so the ingress and egress is a lot easier for people coming in and out. That is
another improvement that I didn't mention. That's off of Pine.
Nary: Okay.
De Weerd: Okay.
Bird: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I think that alley is plenty wide for ingress and egress. Bill, it's like a regular road.
Nary: Yes. I think the prior discussion was more the volume of traffic and not the -- not
the width of the alley, but I just wanted to be sure.
Schroeder: Yes.
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August 5, 2003
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Nary: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Powell: Madam President?
De Weerd: Anna.
Powell: Mr. Nary, the alley is 22 feet wide.
Bird: Yes. I though it was.
De Weerd: Okay. Anyone else who would like to testify? Okay. Well, it's quite
amazing we don't have a full house here. Any questions or comments? Okay. I would
entertain a motion to close the Public Hearing.
Bird: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that we close the Public Hearing RZ 03-007 and CUP 03-026.
McCandless: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to close Item 14 and 15. All those in
favor say aye. Okay. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
De Weerd: Any discussion?
Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I guess the only comment I would make is I'm very appreciative of Mr. Schroeder
for what they are doing to improve the neighborhood there. I think that's a great
addition to what's there and I appreciate the additional steps they have gone through to
enhance the quality of not just this development, but also the surrounding
neighborhoods, so I think it's great.
De Weerd: I would just add one more comment, too. It's very apparent how you have
worked with the neighbors and that's certainly has been appreciated, too. Okay. I
would entertain a motion.
Bird: Madam President?
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August 5, 2003
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De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that we approve RZ 03-007, request for a Rezone of .165 acres from R-4
to O-T zones for Schroeder Apartments by H. John Cook, 921 West 2nd
Street,
Meridian, Idaho. To incorporate all the Planning and Zoning and staff comments and for
the attorney to draw up Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision of
Order.
McCandless: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve RZ 03-007. Mr. Clerk, roll
call.
Roll call: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; de Weerd, aye; Bird, aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
De Weerd: Okay. Item Number 15.
Bird: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that we approve CUP 03-026, the request for a Conditional Use Permit to
remove existing house and construct four apartments, two story with bedrooms in upper
level and four single garages attached in proposed O-T zone for Schroeder Apartments
by H. John Cook, 921 West 2nd
Street, Meridian, Idaho. To incorporate all the Planning
and Zoning and staff comments and for the attorney to draw up Findings of Facts and
Conclusions of Law and Decision of Order.
McCandless: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve CUP 03-026. Mr. Clerk,
roll call.
Roll call: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; de Weerd, aye; Bird, aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Item 16. Public Hearing: AZ 03-013 Request for annexation and zoning of 79.77
acres from RUT to R-8, C-G and L-O zones for proposed Kelly Creek
Subdivision by Kevin Howell Construction – northwest corner of North
Linder Road and West McMillan Road:
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August 5, 2003
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Item 17. Public Hearing: PP 03-014 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of
213 lots and 15 other lots on 79.77 acres in proposed R-8, L-O and C-G
zones for proposed Kelly Creek Subdivision by Kevin Howell
Construction – northwest corner of North Linder Road and West McMillan
Road:
Item 18. Public Hearing: CUP 03-028 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for
a Planned Unit Development for 213 residential units, 34,200 square feet
for office uses and 35,790 square feet for commercial uses for proposed
Kelly Creek Subdivision by Kevin Howell Construction – northwest
corner of North Linder Road and West McMillan Road:
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. With Council's permission, I'd like to open 16, 17 and
18.
Bird: You got her.
De Weerd: Okay. I will open Item 16, AZ 03-013, request for annexation and zoning of
79.77 acres for RUT to R-8, C-G, and L-O zones for proposed Kelly Creek Subdivision.
Item 17, Public Hearing for PP 03-014, request for Preliminary Plat approval of 213
building lots and 15 other lots on 79.77 acres in a proposed R-8, L-O, and C-G zones
for Kelly Creek Subdivision. Item 18, Public Hearing CUP 03-028, request for a
Conditional Use Permit for a planned unit development for 213 residential units, 34,200
square feet for office uses and 35,790 square feet for commercial uses for the proposed
Kelly Creek Subdivision and ask staff to comment on these public hearings.
Powell: Madam President, Members of the Council, this project is located at McMillan
and Linder Road. As shown here, there was -- Bridgetower Subdivision borders the
property to the south. I wanted to point that out, because there was an elementary
school proposed across the street from this -- about at the center of the property that
was originally going to take access internally, that now will be going to McMillan Road
and I will talk about that in a little bit, as shown here. There are a few existing homes
on the site. It's been probably a challenge to JUB to incorporate those existing homes
into the layout of the property. This is the revised -- no, this is not the revised Site Plan.
This is the revised Site Plan as recommend to you by Planning and Zoning
Commission. I will go through some of the features. There is an entrance off of
McMillan. The terminal vista of that is this large park area and also entrances from
Linder Road here and here. There is also a connection into Havasu -- Lochsa. Sorry.
I'm still getting caught up on the subdivisions that aren't really there. There is a
connection to Lochsa here that is being adjusted a little bit to accommodate this
subdivision and there is a letter to that effect. The developer of Lochsa has agreed to
that. Then, this -- there is a connection here where it terminates into a cul-de-sac that
was provided for the benefit of the property owner that takes access from a private road
along here and that would remain. There are two commercial areas, one here with
small office buildings and another more retail oriented commercial area here at the
intersection of Linder and McMillan. There is an access to -- a public street access to
Meridian City Council Meeting
August 5, 2003
Page 40 of 56
both of those properties there and there. There is also a pedestrian access here. The
applicant has moved -- worked to move some of these buildings, so that that pedestrian
access didn't end right at the back side of a building, so they have opened that up
considerably. There was also a lot of discussion at the Planning and Zoning
Commission about a series of lots that were in here. They have, for the time being, just
combined them into a single lot. This does -- the lot does accommodate one of the
larger, nicer homes existing on the property. There was some question coming from
Planning and Zoning Commission as to exactly how many lots we are approving and
how many square feet of office space and how many square feet of commercial. The
confusion arises in that our understanding is at this point we are just giving conceptual
approval of this, yet they have shown platted lots there, so it's confusing the issue of the
lot count and we have asked the applicant to clarify that today. It's basically the same
issue here. It's conceptual approval of these two areas and, then, detailed approval for
the Planned Development for the remainder of the property. We have close ups of
those two commercial areas and that's all we have. With that, I will end staff's
presentation.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions for staff? Okay. Will the applicant, please,
come forward? Do you promise and affirm that the testimony you give tonight is the
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Fluke: I do.
De Weerd: Thank you. Please, state your name and address.
Fluke: Madam President, Members of the Council, Darin Fluke, JUB Engineers, 250
South Beechwood in Boise, representing the applicant in this matter. In the spirit of
brevity that's infusing the room this evening, I pledge to keep my presentation to 90
minutes or less.
De Weerd: Well, you have five minutes.
Fluke: I can do it in five, though. Anna, could I see the Site Plan, either the original or
the modified -- this is the modified Site Plan. I think they did a good job of going
through the various features of this layout. We have almost 80 acres here. This is
about a four and a half acre park in the center, and it accommodates a tot lot, a
basketball court, and an open play field, as well as generous landscaping. One feature
that Anna didn't mention that I'd just like to point out for you is the interconnected
system of paths within here splitting these blocks up here and here, here, basically,
anywhere where the blocks got a little bit long, we inserted a path to enhance
pedestrian access to the public road network. Let me just address the concerns that --
that are in the staff report. We worked out most all of the issues with Planning and
Zoning Commission. We eliminated a couple of lots that we showed here, because
there was some concern over a private drive, so what we show is one large lot here, I
believe it's in the neighborhood of an acre, with a flag providing access to the local
road, so that we can eliminate the driveway to McMillan. This also accommodates an
Meridian City Council Meeting
August 5, 2003
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existing house and its driveway will remain. It does meet the offsets and that was
redesigned -- the offsets required by the Highway District. That's where we are
proposing for -- for the existing dwellings on site. There is also a dwelling over here
that will go away, eventually, and a dwelling over here that will also go away. We have
almost ten percent open space within this, as well as the interconnecting system of
pathways. We did work with the developer over here to relocate this road just about 50
feet to the north for -- to enhance the layout for us here. You have a letter to that effect,
I believe, in your packet. I hope you do, anyway. We just got -- or I got that over to staff
today. With regard to this issue of the conceptual layout of the commercial area and the
office area, what I stated to the P&Z is that we have asked for them to be platted, we do
show these as lots, but the layout itself and how they all fit together is conceptual. We
will have to come back with more detailed approvals when buildings go in there, but
what we did was a maximum yield plan. We wanted to know what we could fit on there
and that's what you see before you. If anything, you will see less than what you see
here. This is the maximum that we can fit on there, so we are asking for that, and we
will work backwards from that. We do -- we are asking for a conceptual approval of this
layout, with the understanding that when we come back with detailed approvals, that
the Site Plan may change somewhat and it may include something less than the square
footage originally applied for. With regard to the number of lots, there was some
confusion at the Planning and Zoning Commission with what we ended up with,
because of what we eliminated. There were three lots eliminated, but only two of them
were buildable, and so we -- what you see on this plan here includes 214 single-family
dwelling lots. In general, the east-west road here divides the property between lots that
are in the neighborhood 6,000 square feet. To the north, we have lots that are in the
neighborhood of 8,000 square feet. They just get a little bit larger as you go to the
north. It pretty well lines up with what's been approved around us. Lochsa Falls here,
Bridgetower to the south, and Paramount to the east. We pretty much have
developments all the way around us. We have worked hard to align all of our driveways
and road connections with what's already been approved. About a week ago I got a call
saying that a school was approved as part of Bridgetower, which initially didn't have a
connection to McMillan, so I got in touch with the architect for the school district and we
are working on that issue and it appears that they are going to be able to accommodate
the location of our public road here with their new driveway, so we don't think we have
an issue there. In summary, we think we have developed a nice project here with a lot
of open space and a lot of nice amenities for the residents and we think it complies
really well with what you had in mind for the north Meridian area and we'd just ask for
your approval.
De Weerd: Council, do you have any questions?
Fluke: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Is there anyone who would like to provide further testimony?
Please raise your right hand.
Moss: Tony Moss. Oops. Go ahead.
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De Weerd: Do you promise and affirm that the testimony you provide tonight is the
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Moss: I do.
De Weerd: Please, state your name and address.
Moss: Tony Moss, 2400 West McMillan.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Moss: I live in that little square right there, the white square just to the – yes, to the
upper left part of that development. I have a Development Agreement between Lochsa
Falls -- excuse me, Farwest Development Corporation and Dan Gibson, which outlines
all the ends and outs of the whole development. How many roads, how many streets,
how many cul-de-sacs a fairly lengthy agreement. I just wondered if -- some of the
statements in here this agreement and this particular development will be harmonious
with all the other developments around it and I'm wondering is this development
harmonious with Lochsa Falls and with Bridgetower to the degree that this development
-- or, excuse me, this document outlines? There is a lot of information in here and I just
wonder if we are getting in a hurry here, because that whole section of ground out there
is now developed completely between Lochsa Falls and Kelly Creek Subdivision. Are
all the houses harmonious and all the roads and all the cul-de-sacs with Lochsa Falls
and is the -- is the development, since it is going to take up the whole section, really
that necessary, because of the -- from the standpoint of Linder, Ten Mile, and McMillan
are not scheduled for type of road improvement for the next five years. This is all set up
-- I don't know what speed it can go through or any speed that the developers want, but
the traffic on those roads right now is unbelievable. Are we going too fast for the area
or the services from Ada County or City of Meridian or whoever it is to make this
development go, along with everything else that's been approved out in that particular
section? I'm not opposed to the Lochsa Falls Subdivision, because certain
accommodations have been made for me, because of the easement that I have with the
developers, but I'm sure -- I'm sure curious about it meeting the harmonious -- being
harmonious with Lochsa Falls and being harmonious with the community, because of
just the actual strain of what this is going to do to that particular area. It's more of a
comment than a question -- rather than a statement, but I just -- I'm the only one out
there that's living in a single-family unit in that whole section. If I didn't say something,
I'd feel bad about it and I really think that this particular development, in looking at it,
and looking at Lochsa Falls, is not harmonious with the surrounding area. I'm kind of
going backwards here, because it says this one will be, meaning Lochsa Falls, but I
don't think this one is harmonious with the rest of the development in that section,
including the park, including everything else. With that, I will answer any questions, but
--
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any --
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Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Mr. Moss, I guess if you could maybe be more specific. What specifically do you
not believe to be harmonious? Is it the potential volume of traffic, the influx of people
into that area?
Moss: Size of lots. All those things. Potential volume of traffic. Also, I just wonder if
this agreement that I have here -- how much research has gone into it being
harmonious with what we are trying to develop here. Does it -- are all the things
harmonious? I mean that's kind of a general term, I admit, but this particular
subdivision and this particular part of that section out there is a lot different than Lochsa
Falls as far as entryways, as far as roads, as far as size of lots, and harmonious to me
does -- since it's one entire section. It's all being developed at one time, why wouldn't it
be a lot similar in size, streets, everything else involved here and also the commercial
buildings and the other amenities that this development is going to provide? It just
doesn't seem to me -- and that's my opinion, but -- and that's reading this document, not
knowing exactly all the things that's happened here, but just looking at the information
from the City Council and Planning and Zoning, it just doesn't seem like it really fits.
Nary: Is your concern that this -- like, for example -- I just want to clarify in my mind.
For example, many times people that live on this side of the line want this border area
to be of similar size, style, or whatever. Is that what you're talking about?
Moss: I'm passed that. I'm just saying the whole section. I'm not trying to be selfish
with myself or my location in this particular situation or saying that everything around my
particular piece of property should be more like Lochsa Falls, I'm just saying that I look
at the whole development. I say it doesn't really match what's going on around me and
I don't think it matches what's going around in the other areas, too, so it's just -- it's just
a case of the size, the density, the size of -- and the type of development is not
harmonious with the rest of the area and --
Nary: So, you're saying it's denser because of smaller lots than the other ones around
it?
Moss: Exactly.
Nary: Okay.
Moss: And I think it's -- I don't want to say ill-conceived, but I just don't think that it has
the same character as Lochsa Falls and I just don't think it has the same type of
entryways, the same type of pathways, the same size of parks. I know they are
requirements -- certain areas -- certain size of park for certain areas of the city, I'm just
saying it seems to me that the rest of the development in that particular section is very
Meridian City Council Meeting
August 5, 2003
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well planned and I'm not comfortable with it. This particular part doesn't seem as good
and as well planned as the rest of the section, because when this happens, if it does,
that's the whole section right there.
Nary: And, Mr. Moss, one more thing. I mean have you had any discussions with the
developers of Lochsa Falls or any of the other ones because, obviously, they are not
here to express the same concerns. I wondered have you had any discussion with
them.
Moss: Not really. I have talked to Marty Goldsmith a couple of times, but not in relation
to this. I am -- like I said, I have had certain concessions because of the easement that
I have into my piece of property that's bordering this, but -- and I'm comfortable with
that. I mean I feel that I got a fair deal and that's the way it is, but it's not a selfish thing
that I think my property values are going to change dramatically because of this, I'm just
-- I'm just -- as an overview it just doesn't look like it fits with the rest of the area. It's not
harmonious to the document, along with everything else in that particular area.
De Weerd: Well, it sounds like you talked with the Lochsa developers quite extensively.
I am assuming that you haven't really talked directly with the developer of this piece.
Moss: No, I have not.
De Weerd: So, you don't know what their vision is or -- sometimes looking at these
plats you just don't see the landscaping or the entryways or any of that, what kind of -- if
the applicant hadn't of told us what was in the open space, you have no idea what's in
the open space. It could be that their development is similar to Lochsa, but they haven't
shared that vision with you.
Moss: Well, I have seen all the Lochsa Falls plats and all the information, because I am
kind of a part of that and looking at that and looking at this. Just, like you say,
envisioning what I see in this particular area and the size of lots, it looks quite a bit
different to me, but I'm not an expert at this, I'm just using the information I have. I am
privy to a little bit more than the ordinary person, because I'm the only one living out
there and I'm probably more interested in the whole thing and it just doesn't look the
same as -- the same conducive development that Lochsa Falls is. I apologize for not
being more educated on this type of thing, but that's all you have to deal with, so that's
what I am dealing with.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Moss. Any further questions?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Is there anyone else who would like to testify on this application?
Okay. Would you like to come up and respond?
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Fluke: Well, Madam President, Darin Fluke, JUB, for the record. I guess I would just
tend to differ with Mr. Moss on the compatibility of the developments. By almost any
measure that you want to use we are compatible. Our gross density comes in at just
barely over three units to the acre. I think Lochsa is something at like three and a half
to the acre. We have all single-family dwellings. I think they have got some multi-family
in their development, but they have also got some offices and some retail, if I'm not
mistaken. Land use wise we are almost one for one what they are doing. Open space,
they have provided a city park, because that's where a city park was needed, so we,
obviously, don't need one, but we have provided a fairly substantial contiguous piece of
open space, so we compare there. As far as roads, our roads will be exactly the same
section, a 50 -foot right of way with 36-foot roads, curb, gutter and sidewalk on both
sides. We have connected with every single stub street that adjoins the property here,
here, here and here. Four of them. I'm not sure what else we could do to be
compatible. You know, the lot sizes, like I said, we range from 6,000 square feet at the
low end, up to, you know, probably 12,000 square feet at the high end with an average
being somewhere around seven or eight thousand square feet, real similar to what
Lochsa Falls is doing. We don't have a roundabout, they do. Other than that, you
know, I'm just not sure what we could do to be more harmonious. Again, with
Bridgetower to the south, same kind of concept, they did a PUD, mix of land uses, and
Paramount as well to the east. I can say with certainty that we are harmonious with the
Meridian Comprehensive Plan, because that's the first thing we look at when we laid
this out and decided what was going to go in here and that's why you have what you
have in front of you, is because of that plan. We regard to the other standards, that are
because of the zoning ordinance, you know, the lot sizes and dimensional standards,
we follow the book. We think it's a good development. I guess I should just mention as
well that we are sharing an irrigation system with Lochsa Falls, which right now they are
building a pump station about in this area, which is requiring an 16 inch water line to
that. That sort of gives you an idea of the scale of development. That's a very big
water line for an irrigation line feeding that pump station and that will serve both of our
developments.
McCandless: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mrs. McCandless.
McCandless: Mr. Fluke, how does your house square footage compare?
Fluke: Well, I don't know what the condition was for Lochsa, but we will have dwellings
no smaller than 1,400 square feet per the ordinance and up. It's typically a function of
the lot size as well. The 6,000 square foot lots will accommodate a 1,400 square foot
dwelling.
Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
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Nary: Mr. Fluke, is this the main entry for this subdivision that's right there?
Fluke: Well, there is that and, then, there is this one as well that we consider to be the
main entrances.
Nary: Okay. Was there -- since this is just a small drawing, was there some entryway
type of enhancement that we are looking at for that or -- and one other thing, too. Did I
understand you to say there will be this entryway, but there will also be some -- a
driveway here right for an existing home?
Fluke: Right. There is a driveway there now and we will maintain that until the land use
changes on that. The treatment -- the entryway treatments have not been designed
yet, but they will be similar to what you see -- what we have got is a 30 foot landscape
buffer here and a 25 foot landscape buffer here, which will accommodate the detached
sidewalk, as well as, you know, ample landscaping and some kind of signage feature.
De Weerd: Mr. Fluke, how are your business -- or your pads, your retail or office space,
how are they accessing? I see you do have some interconnectivity with the
neighborhoods, but what are the access points out onto the road -- or into the arterial?
Fluke: This particular one here has an internal connection, as you noted. It's got a right
in, right out here and, then, it's got a full access drive there and there and, then, this we
initially designed with two access points, but it didn't work because of a road approved
in Bridgetower, we eliminated the two and have a single drive in here and, then, a local
road connection here. Those -- those drives were supported by the traffic study, which
indicated that they would be adequate to serve the development contemplated on those
lots.
De Weerd: So, on the one that's on the west, there is only one entrance out there?
Fluke: Correct. Yes. There was not enough room to get a second entrance with the
other drives -- with the -- particularly the road here to the south in Bridgetower, which
we now align with, but we also have an entryway into Lochsa over here that we had to
offset from. Given what was already approved, we didn't have room to get more than
the one to the arterial, but we do have the interior connection as well.
De Weerd: So, what is just directly to the west of that? Is that residential backing up to
it or is that --
Fluke: That's a landscape feature in Lochsa. They have got some large open area
here. That's why it wasn't so much of an issue for them to move this, because it
basically made this landscape area a little bit bigger and this one a little bit smaller, so it
was kind of a one for one.
De Weerd: Well, staff, I'd really like to see how these things interconnect with -- if we
have Preliminary Plats on these things, just to see how they do connect.
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Powell: Madam President, Members of the Council, did you get the letter from the
Lochsa Falls folks? Did that make it into your files? It had a brief sketch that at least
showed the two road alignments, but that was all it showed. Madam President, I will
take that back to staff. We will try and compile something, because I think you're
absolutely right, it would be helpful.
Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I guess I'm not finding something from Lochsa Falls. Is it a letter? Oh. Okay.
They had no other objection, other than just showing you where the streets align?
Powell: Right. Their concern was that they wanted to make sure that they didn't have
to move the other easement immediately west to that and ACHD's response was, no,
they do not.
De Weerd: Okay. Sorry. We were looking on our computers. Are there any further
questions for Mr. Fluke?
Fluke: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Powell: Madam President, Members of the Council, while you're contemplating, I did
bring up the issue of the school. Bridgetower before, just because I wanted to assure
you that we had asked the applicant to work with the school district to make sure that
was going to be possible for them to get the driveways they needed, since it had not
been contemplated at the Preliminary Plat stage.
De Weerd: Well, the Public Hearing is still open and I don't see any further testifies.
Bird: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: If we are all done with anything that needs to be said in public, I would move that
we -- I'm sorry. I move that we close Public Hearing AZ 03 --
De Weerd: I'm sorry, Keith. There is still --
Bird: Okay.
De Weerd: I'm sorry, sir.
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Gibson: My name is Daniel Gibson.
De Weerd: Do you promise and affirm that the testimony you provide tonight is the
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Gibson: I do.
De Weerd: Please state your name and address.
Gibson: My name is Daniel Gibson. My address is 19500 Highway 20-26, Caldwell,
Idaho. I'm the owner of the property that's just to the west of this property and I think
my question is on this commercial property they have the one entryway into it. Then,
you look at the main entryway coming into the subdivision and it makes a left turn, it
looks like the road almost like dead ends, it doesn't look like there is a cul-de-sac there.
I just wonder why that road doesn't continue through into the -- right in there. Right.
That looks kind of like it's a dead end. It looks like that should enter into the commercial
area maybe to make the flow through there a little better. Otherwise, I -- what I see
happening is in that commercial area I see a lot of traffic going over to come through
the Lochsa Falls Subdivision. It just kind of looks like it dead-ends there with a two-lot
split. It doesn't look like there is even a cul-de-sac. The other thing that -- if you look at
your letter, you see the subdivision of Lochsa Falls -- and this is a real entryway and
when you look at the entryway on these subdivisions, they are just single streets, I
mean it doesn't show the landscaping or anything, you know, what that entryway is
really going to look like. I mean is the Lochsa Falls Subdivision entryway going to look
real well landscaped and this entryway is going to distract from it or -- it just doesn't look
like they are going to be equal. And you can't really tell from this drawing and know
exactly what they are going to do. I'm just saying I see a dead end and I see just
streets coming into a subdivision. That's the only thing I wanted to mention.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Gibson. Any questions? Do you want to respond?
Fluke: What we have got here is an L-type turn around, which has been approved by
the Fire Department in the past. We still have to have Meridian Fire Department
approval for this type of turn around. We don't really want to encourage traffic utilizing
these two developments to travel through our subdivision or Lochsa Falls. There is no
benefit to them to come up to here and come out to here, because you still have the
same turning movement onto McMillan Road that you do right here. This is an office
use, it's fairly low intensity, it's not retail uses or anything like that and, again, the traffic
study showed that a single entrance would accommodate it just fine, given the
anticipated volume of traffic. As far as the entryway corridors go, yes, we don't have a
split entry with a median in there, but we will have nice landscaping in the landscape
buffer with a nice entry feature that will not detract from Lochsa Falls in any way. We
don't want this one to go through, because we don't want to encourage local traffic.
What we want to encourage is people to walk to these developments, which is what the
plan envisions and which is why these uses are getting incorporated with the residential
uses. We initially didn't have a road connection here, that was at the behest of staff,
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August 5, 2003
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and the reason I didn't put that there was for the same reason, that I would rather not
encourage people from here or from Lochsa Falls to hop in their car and drive here,
we'd rather have them walk here. What we initially had was a pedestrian path there,
rather than a road connection, so -- another road connection simply is not necessary
here and what it will do will be to detract from the value of the lots in that area, so that's
why it is the way that it is.
De Weerd: So, Darin, on your smaller lots, your 6,000 square foot lots, you said you're
going to put a 1,400 square foot house on that?
Fluke: Yes.
De Weerd: Okay. You don't have any duplexes, townhouses, four-plexes, or anything
like that?
Fluke: No, ma'am. All single-family product in this.
Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: So, is there a path right here, Mr. Fluke? Is that -- is that what this is or is this a
drainage or --
Fluke: This is a common area that will be used as open space, you know, for the
people here. It will be landscaped and I believe that it likely will accommodate a
shallow swale, but it will be landscaped and it will be open and it does provide a
pedestrian connection. As well, the Planning and Zoning Commission wanted us to
provide an easement to this lot in the event that it does with commercial land uses in
the future, which is not our intent, but, you know, 50 years down the road or whatever,
who knows, so we will provide an easement to access this -- this parcel from this parcel.
Like I said, it's got a single-family dwelling that's only a few years old and so we
anticipate that that will remain for a while anyway.
Nary: So, really, just to follow up, then, I guess on the previous comment by Mr.
Gibson, really, the intent of these access points here, really, is just to allow some of this
traffic to get through there, but, really, like you said, there is not really any real purpose
for people to drive back through this, unless they happen to live up here.
Fluke: That's correct.
Nary: They are going to come out on these points here or there or there.
Fluke: And if they were headed to points north and west, there is just really no benefit
to coming through this development to get there. I mean we connect at the points that
are there, but the attractions in Lochsa are going to utilize their on collector roads,
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August 5, 2003
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because that will be the easiest way to get through, rather than coming through the
circuitous route of this project.
De Weerd: Just one more question is what kind of market are you attracting by this
subdivision?
Fluke: What kind of market?
De Weerd: Housing market.
Fluke: Well, are you talking price wise? I imagine that the dwellings in the upper end of
this will probably start in that 160,000 range, similar to Cedar Springs and Watersong,
Cedar Springs North. In the southern end of the development on the smaller lots, those
lots will probably -- I don't -- they will probably start at 120 grand or so.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Fluke: Thank you.
Powell: Madam President, Members of the Council?
De Weerd: Anna.
Powell: I just wanted to let you know that the Site Plan, the most current Site Plan,
does have today's date on it -- or the most current Preliminary Plat. Excuse me.
De Weerd: And what is the date on that?
Powell: August 5th
.
De Weerd: Okay. Is there any further discussion? Okay. Is there any further
testimony?
Bird: Madam President, then, if there is no more testimony, I will move that we close
the public hearings for AZ 03-013 and PP 03-014, and CUP 03-028.
McCandless: Second.
Nary: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved to close the Public Hearing on Items 16, 17, and 18.
All those in favor say aye. Okay. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
De Weerd: Discussion?
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Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I think the only comment I have -- I think it's a very nice subdivision, I think it is
compatible with the surrounding areas. I mean I understand Mr. Moss's concern and
it's the same concern we always have is the volume of people that are coming, but I
think that, you know, it's always the same issues, that the people -- the people come
and the roads get expanded. That's just how it works. I think they have done an
excellent job at trying to provide what we have wanted in our Comprehensive Plan, I
think the quality of the housing and this is -- looks very good. I think the open space is
a tremendous asset to this subdivision. I appreciate the fact that it has approximately
ten percent of open space, so I think that's great. We don't see that very often and I
don't think we have seen too many subdivisions over two houses that did not require a
Variance for a block length. They have done an excellent job of putting some pathways
in and providing some other ways for people to get around in here without just driving,
so I can't see any down sides at all.
McCandless: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mrs. McCandless.
McCandless: I concur. He beat me to it, but I would have said just about everything he
did. I like it very much.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. I would entertain a motion, then.
Bird: Madam President?
De Weerd: On Item 26. Yes, Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that we approve AZ 03-013, the request for annexation and zoning of
79.77 acres from RUT to R-8, C-G and L-O zones for the proposed Kelly Creek
Subdivision by Kevin Howell Construction. Northwest corner of North Linder Road and
West McMillan Road and to incorporate all Planning and Zoning and staff comments,
for the attorney to draw up the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision
of Order.
McCandless: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve AZ 03-013. Mr. Clerk, roll
call vote.
Roll call: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; de Weerd, aye; Bird, aye.
Meridian City Council Meeting
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MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
De Weerd: Okay. Item Number 17.
Bird: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that we approve PP 03-014, request for Preliminary Plat approval of 240 --
De Weerd: Thirteen.
Bird: -- 214 lots, building lots, and 15 other lots on 79.77 acres in a proposed R-8, L-O,
C-G zones for the proposed Kelly Creek Subdivision by Kevin Howell Construction,
northwest corner of North Linder Road and West McMillan Road. I believe the
Preliminary Plat date was August 5, 2003, and to incorporate all Planning and Zoning
and staff comments and for the attorney to draw up the Findings of Facts and
Conclusion of Law and Decision of Order.
McCandless: Second.
De Weerd: And let's just clarify that there is 213 building lots.
Bird: It's 214. He clarified that.
De Weerd: Fourteen? Okay. Okay. It's been moved to approve PP 03-014. Is there
any further discussion? Okay. All those in favor say aye -- oh, on Preliminary Plats?
Berg: Yes. Findings.
De Weerd: Okay.
Roll call: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; de Weerd, aye; Bird, aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
De Weerd: Okay. Item 18. Mr. Bird.
Bird: Madam President, I'd move that we approve CUP 03-028, request for a
Conditional Use Permit for a planned unit development for 214 residential units, 34,200
square feet for office use and 35,790 square feet for commercial for the proposed Kelly
Creek Subdivision by Kevin Howell Construction. Northwest corner of North Linder
Road and West McMillan Road and to incorporate all Planning and Zoning and staff
comments, for the attorney to draw up the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law
and Decision of Order.
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August 5, 2003
Page 53 of 56
McCandless: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve CUP 03-028. Mr. Clerk,
roll call vote.
Roll call: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; de Weerd, aye; Bird, aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Item 19. Approve 2004 Fiscal Year Tentative Budget:
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Item 19, approve the 2004 Fiscal Year Tentative Budget.
I think there is one item that in our Pre-Council, we didn't discuss and that was if there
is any desire by Council to do anything with the Council president pay. I think that
would have to -- well, I guess that wouldn't influence this, it would just shift a number a
little bit, but it would be an appropriate place to have the discussion, if you would like to
further discuss it.
Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I guess in thinking about this particular issue, I guess I was looking at a broader
issue. I do think it is not unreasonable -- I know it's always difficult to want to have
anything that pays anybody up here, no one ever wants to do that, but I don't -- I think
your proposal is not unreasonable, because I do recognize that the Council president
position does carry a lot of other responsibilities. Again, I don't know what everyone
else thinks. I know that the city of Boise does not pay the Council president more. I
don't know about other cities. I know the City of Boise ordinances do pay the Council
president a stipend whenever the mayor is out of town and the Council president has to
be the mayor, so they -- I don't know if that's a trade-off that they have come up with,
but they do have that provision. Something else that we may want to think of more of
along term and not necessarily for this discussion, but the Mayor's pay and the Council
pay is set by ordinance and at least one method to look at for long term is whether or
not we want to have an ordinance that has some built-in increases to those salaries
over some period of time, whether it's yearly or biannually, whatever. I mean something
like that. I think that you have -- I think at some point you have to discuss those and
those are always very uncomfortable ones to address and I think the way some
municipalities deal with that is simply by enacting ordinances that set pre-set times as to
when increases for those positions will occur, so that it's done in ordinance form, there
is a public hearing to it, and it's really done fairly openly, but I don't have a particular
preference one way or the other. I understood your reason for proposing it and I think
there is some merit to that, but I don't really have a burning issue one way or the other,
so -- I don't know what everyone else thinks.
De Weerd: Is there any other comments?
Meridian City Council Meeting
August 5, 2003
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Nary: Sounds like moving on to me.
Bird: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that we approve the Tentative Fiscal Year 2004 Budget -- I mean this is
very tentative, because we have got a Public Hearing in August and -- but I move that
we approve it if we have to.
De Weerd: If we have to? Is that part of your motion?
Bird: This is the first time -- this is the first time I have ever -- in six years that we have
ever done this.
De Weerd: Yes.
Bird: Done a tentative -- yes, it is.
Nary: Actually, we do it every year.
Berg: We do it every year.
Nary: It's just to provide the notice to what we are doing, so that --
Bird: I thought we did that two weeks ago.
Berg: Madam President?
De Weerd: Yes. Because those were worked out. Mr. Berg.
Berg: If I could just address a few issues. We are required to approve a tentative
budget, so we can notice the figures in the paper, so people could come into Public
Hearing and comment on those figures and we do, do it every year. We kind of agreed
upon something, but we also -- two weeks ago, but we also said that we would put it on
this calendar date to approve it officially --
Bird: Oh. Okay.
Berg: -- once Stacy put together all the figures and made sure everything came to the
right understanding of what you guys decided. The other issue is that once we approve
this tentative budget, my understanding is we don't -- we can't go over that or increase
it, we have to keep to that amount or we could approve something lower, so we always
want to keep that in mind also. Thank you.
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August 5, 2003
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Nary: I would second that motion, but I just have a comment.
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Nary.
Nary: I did note in the documents, as we had discussed in the hearings, the 2.5 percent
increases included in the personnel base of each department and that is noted in each
of the different sections, the general fund, special services, and enterprise. It also
indicates that the employee merit and incentive for each set -- for each portion of the
budget in the special services fund. The general fund it's indicated that the employee
merit and incentive section has a number affixed to it and it indicates on the note that
the Council is to administer as we had directed, it is not reflected in the enterprise fund
regarding the personnel. I simply would ask that that be corrected to include that they
all be the same that was meant for all the different sections. Other than that --
Bird: Yes. That's fine.
De Weerd: Will, can you make sure that Stacy gets that comment?
Berg: Madam President, yes, I will.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Bird: Call for the question.
De Weerd: Okay. The question has been called for. There is a motion on the table to
approve the 2004 Fiscal Year Tentative Budget as presented before you. All those in
favor say aye. Do we need role call? No. Okay.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: Madam President, because of a prior item on the agenda, I'd ask the Council
to enter Executive Session for -- if you would, 67-2345(1)(c) with regard to negotiations
to acquire an interest in real property and ask that Mr. Watson be available.
De Weerd: Okay.
Nary: Before we do that, could I ask one question of Mr. Watson, so that he doesn't
have to wait around a long time. Madam President?
De Weerd: Yes.
Nary: We had a letter in our boxes today from Amanda Alvaro from the Quasar
Development and my recollection was we had this discussion previously with Tuscany
and we said whatever you want to do, Brad, was fine and so we didn't necessarily grant
Meridian City Council Meeting
August 5, 2003
Page 56 of 56
this approval that she thinks we might have granted and I didn't know if you had had
some further contact or we needed to make some direction, but is this the one I'm
thinking, they had asked to cut across the property that we said no, that we weren't
going to make you do that, that was their call and it was not within the plan and that was
fine, so --
Watson: Councilman Nary, their next project called Tuscany Village is at Planning and
Zoning Commission Thursday night. The cut-through sewer would be within that
project, so I think her letter is directed to be included in that testimony for that Public
Hearing Thursday night.
Nary: Okay. Yes. The letter was addressed to us and I guess it was -- so it's still
pending. I don't think we -- I guess what I -- I just wanted to clarify is I don't believe we
gave direction to simply change the plan, I think we simply said let the process take its
course. It's still doing that and this is relevant as to that; is that correct?
Watson: That's my understanding that this is the normal course of events where they
will address it.
Nary: Okay.
De Weerd: Okay. Well, I would entertain a motion.
Bird: Madam President, I move that we go into Executive Session as per 67-
2345(1)(c).
De Weerd: Okay and do I have a second?
McCandless: Second.
Nary: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to adjourn into Executive Session.
All those -- oh, I'm sorry. Mr. Berg.
Roll Call: Bird, aye; Nary, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
(Enter into Executive Session)
(Reconvened at 9:50 P.M.)
De Weerd: Come out.
Bird: So moved.
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August 5, 2003
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Nary: Second.
De Weerd: Okay all those in favor say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
De Weerd: Okay we’re out of Executive Session no decisions were made. I would
entertain a motion to adjourn.
McCandless: So moved.
Nary: Second.
De Weerd: All those in favor say aye. Okay adjourned at 9:50.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Roll call: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; de Weerd, aye; Bird, aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:50 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
APPROVED:
/ /
ROBERT D. CORRIE, MAYOR DATE
ATTESTED:
WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., CITY CLERK