HomeMy WebLinkAbout2003 04-01Meridian City Council Meeting April 1, 2003
The Regular Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:15 P.M., on
Tuesday, April 1, 2003, by Mayor Robert Corrie.
Members Present: Tammy de Weerd, Cherie McCandless, and Keith Bird.
Members Absent: Bill Nary.
Others Present: William Nichols, Brad Hawkins-Clark, Brad Watson, Ken Bowers, Doug
Strong, Dean Willis, and Will Berg.
Item 1. Roll call Attendance:
__X Tammy de Weerd _ O__ Bill Nary
__X Cherie McCandless __X Keith Bird
___X__ Mayor Robert Corrie
Corrie: At this time I will open the Regular Meeting on Tuesday, April the 1st
, at 7:00
P.M., the year 2003, in the City Council Chambers. At this time, I'd like to have the City
Clerk have roll call attendance, please.
Item 2. Adoption of the Agenda:
Corrie: Okay Item Number 2 is adoption of the agenda. Council, is there any additions
or corrections to the agenda?
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Under Item E on the Consent Agenda, there is a resolution that has no number on
it or anything and we are either going to have to get a number -- we have passed it.
What is there -- we have to pull it off and put it on the Regular Agenda. We can't pass a
consent item without -- without -- with a resolution on it with no number. Have we
passed this resolution? I do not recall it. Of course, I missed about two or three
meetings there in January and February.
Corrie: Mr. Berg did we -- kind of have to help us here.
Berg: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council. I see in the packet that the
attorney included a resolution, which probably was overlooked when putting this item on
the agenda, so we will just need to note and add a resolution number, which could be, if
you want to adopt it, 03-401. I'm sorry there was no --
Bird: If the Mayor and the Council has seen that resolution, I have no problems with it.
We can leave it on if we have got a number.
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April 1, 2003
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De Weerd: I don't have anything.
Corrie: I don't have any problem with it.
Bird: Okay. As far as I know, that's it on the agenda and I would move that we adopt
the agenda as noted with the change in Item E on the Consent Agenda.
De Weerd: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded. Any further comment? All those
in favor of the motion say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT
Item 3. Consent Agenda:
A. Approve minutes of January 27, 2003 City Council Special
Workshop Meeting:
B. Approve minutes of February 4, 2003 Pre-Council Meeting
C. Approve minutes of February 18, 2003 Pre-Council Meeting:
D. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: MI 03-
002 Request to allow a temporary sales office on Lot 2 Block 5 of
Baldwin Park Subdivision No. 1 by Capital Development – 4196
N. Zion Park Way:
E. Meridian/Meridian Rural Fire Protection District Firefighting
and Life Preservation Service Contract and Joint Exercise of
Power Agreement:
F. Water Main Easement Agreement with Gary and Rosalie
Wingett for Cascade Fence Company:
G. St. Luke’s Regional Medical Center Easement Agreement:
H. Beer, Wine, and Liquor License Renewals:
Corona Village, Inc. – Beer and Wine
Meridian Speedway – Beer and Wine
A New Vintage Wine Shop – Beer and Wine
Big Smoke, LLC – Beer and Wine
I. Approve Bills:
Corrie: Item Number 3 is the Consent Agenda.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
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April 1, 2003
Page 3 of 48
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would move we approve the Consent Agenda with one change, that it be known
that under Item E, the Meridian / Meridian Fire Protection District Firefighting Life
Preservation Service Contract Joint Exercise of Power Agreement, that the Resolution
Number for that 03-401. With that, that we approve the Consent Agenda as published
and for the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest on all proper papers.
McCandless: Second.
Corrie: Okay motion has been made and seconded. Any further discussion? Hearing
none, roll call vote, Mr. Berg.
Roll call: McCandless, aye; Nary, absent; de Weerd, aye; Bird, aye.
Corrie: Okay. Motion is approved.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT
Item 4. Department Reports:
Corrie: Item Number 4 is Department Reports. At this time, I would like to give to the
City Council the name of Anna Powell to be appointed the Planning and Zoning Director
for the City of Meridian. Anna is sitting here in front. Anna, if you'd like to stand up.
We had a group of people interviewing a number of applicants and Anna has come out
as the top one here, so, thank you, Anna, for being here tonight. Under the
circumstances, I would like to nominate Anna Powell as the new Planning and Zoning
Director and comments -- I think we had two of the Council that was on that, so that's --
any comments?
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I think Anna had a very good interview and she will bring a different
perspective to the Department of Planning and Zoning. She has both public and private
experiences degrees that will really help us look forward and do some good solid
planning. I look forward to working with you, Anna, and congratulations. I guess we
can't say really negative with her standing here, but I think you will do a wonderful job.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: With that I would make a motion that we approve Anna Powell as our Planning
and Zoning Director.
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April 1, 2003
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McCandless: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded. Is there any further discussion?
Okay. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT
Corrie: Thank you, Anna. I know you have another meeting you have to go to right
now. Thank you for being here.
De Weerd: I'm sure Brad will be relieved.
Item 5. (Items Moved from Consent Agenda):
Item 6. Tabled from March 25, 2003: FP 03-011 Request for Final Plat approval
of 26 building lots and 8 other lots on 5.48 acres in an R-8 zone for
Mosher’s Farm Subdivision by CMD, Inc. – northwest corner of North
Ten Mile Road and West Pine Avenue:
Corrie: Okay. Item Number 6 is tabled from March 25, 2003. This is a request for Final
Plat approval of 26 building lots and eight other lots on 5.48 acres in an R-8 zone for
Mosher's Farm Subdivision by CMD, Inc., northwest corner of North Ten Mile Road and
West Pine Avenue. At this time, I will invite our Planning and Zoning staff to comment
first.
Hawkins-Clark: Thank you, Mayor, Members of the Council. Our Public Works staff did
request that this item be tabled due to some reconfiguration of the sanitary sewer. They
requested April 15th
as a date to be tabled to.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: With that said, I move that we table this item for request for Final Plat
approval of 26 building lots and eight other lots on 5.48 acres in an R-8 zone for
Mosher's Farms Subdivision to April 15, 2003.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded to table Item Number 6 until April 5,
2003. Any further discussion? All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT
Item 7. Tabled from March 25, 2003: FP 03-012 Request for Final Plat approval
of 52 building lots and 5 other lots on 15 acres in a R-4 zone for
Castlebrook Subdivision by Centennial Development, LLC – east of
North Black Cat Road and south of West Cherry Lane:
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April 1, 2003
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Corrie: Item Number 7 is tabled from March 25, 2003. This is a request for Final Plat
approval of 52 building lots and five other lots on 15 acres in an R-4 zone for
Castlebrook Subdivision by Centennial Development, LLC, east of the North Black Cat
Road and south of West Cherry Lane. Brad.
Hawkins-Clark: Mayor, Members of the Council, the staff had requested a revised plat
be submitted to us ten days prior to the hearing. I understand from the City Clerk's
Office that we did not get that 10 days. There was also some mix up by the city in
terms of getting the plat circulated. We have had conversations with Mr. Amar, the
developer, and he's aware that we have some responsibility for the mix up here. We
told him that we would get the review done on this -- this week and so this subdivision
does involve the -- there are a couple of lots that are involved in this subdivision that the
city had discussions with for a temporary -- for a lift station. Those conversations are
part of the reasons why we are asking for it to be tabled. We are asking it to be tabled
until the April 8th
meeting, so we can finalize those discussions about the lift station on
Castlebrook No. 1.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would move that we table FP 03-012, request for Final Plat approval of 52
building lots and five other lots on 15 acres in an R-4 zone for Castlebrook Subdivision
by Centennial Development, LLC, east of North Black Cat Road and south of West
Cherry Lane until April 8, 2003.
De Weerd: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded to table the Final Plat approval of
Castlebrook Subdivision until April 8, 2003. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all
those in favor of that motion say aye. All ayes. Motion carried. Final Plat will be on the
April 8th
agenda.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT
Item 8. FP 03-014 Request for Final Plat approval of 70 building lots and 3 other
lots on 17.11 acres in an R-4 zone for Marlin Subdivision No. 2 by
Winston Moore – north of I-84 and east of Linder Road:
Corrie: Item Number 8, request for Final Plat approval of 70 building lots and three
other lots on 17.11 acres in an R-4 zone for Marlin Subdivision No. 2 by Winston Moore,
north of I-84, east of Linder Road. Invite staff's comments first.
Hawkins-Clark: Thank you, Mayor, Members of the Council. This Final Plat is the
second of two total phases for Marlin Subdivision. I-84 is on the south side of the
subdivision. The Landing is to the east and they already have constructed the public
street through the development. That was a requirement of our Fire Department for two
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April 1, 2003
Page 6 of 48
points of permanent access into the subdivision to serve the first phase. This road was
constructed and is constructed already. This landscaping that was required along I-84
is already in, houses are well underway for these -- for the first phase. The second
phase has a gross density of 4.6 dwelling units per acre. There are recommended
conditions from the staff in our March 28th
memo. There are a couple of conditions that
I understand Mr. Jonathan Seel has some questions about, one of those Public Works,
Brad Watson, is going to speak to.
Watson: Site-specific Requirement Number 2 regarding PI needs to be cleaned up. I
just spoke with Jonathan Seel out in the lobby and, correct me if I'm wrong, Jonathan,
needs to be amended to say on the first sentence. The pressurized irrigation system
within this development will be owned, operated, and maintained by Nampa-Meridian
Irrigation District. The second sentence and third sentence need to be deleted in their
entirety. The fourth, fifth, and sixth sentences are standard to any subdivision and
should be retained. I think we have worked out everything else on this. Oh, Site-
Specific Requirement Number 1 -- I will probably have to toss this back over to Brad
Hawkins-Clark. Mr. Seel says there is no Development Agreement, which Planning and
Zoning indicates is true. Just that last phrase should be struck from Site-Specific
Condition Number 1.
Corrie: Okay.
Seel: Good evening. Jonathan Seel, 600 North Steelhead, Boise, Idaho, representing
W.H. Moore Company. I'm in agreement with the staff report with the modifications that
were discussed and unless you have any questions, I will just sit down. Make this
simple. Yes. I like this.
Corrie: Works out well. Any questions of Jonathan?
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: All right. Thank you very much.
Seel: Thank you.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I move we approve the request for Final Plat of 70 building lots and three
other lots on 17.11 acres in an R-4 zone for Marlin Subdivision No. 2, to delete in Site-
Specific Number 1, reference to the Development Agreement. In Site-Specific
Requirement Number 2 to amend sentence one, as stated by Brad Watson, delete
sentence two and three, and to have the attorney draw up Findings of Facts and
Conclusions of Law and Decision of Order.
Bird: Second.
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April 1, 2003
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Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded to approve the request for the
Final Plat approval on Marlin Subdivision No. 2. Any further discussion? Hearing none,
roll call vote, Mr. Berg.
Roll call: McCandless, aye; Nary, absent; de Weerd, aye; Bird, aye.
Corrie: Okay. Three ayes. Motion is carried for approval of Marlin Subdivision No. 2.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT
Item 9. FP 03-015 Request for Final Plat approval of 31 building lots and 2 other
lots on 8.63 acres in an R-4 zone for Havasu Creek Subdivision No. 2
by Havasu Creek, LLC – west of Locust Grove Road and south of
McMillan Road:
Item 10. FP 03-016 Request for Final Plat approval of 31 building lots and 3 other
lots on 8.72 acres in an R-4 zone for Havasu Creek Subdivision No. 3
by Havasu Creek, LLC – west of Locust Grove Road and south of
McMillan Road:
Corrie: Item Number 9. This is a request for Final Plat approval of 31 building lots and
two other lots on 8.63 acres in an R-4 zone for Havasu Creek Subdivision No. 2 by
Havasu Creek, LLC, west of Locust Grove Road and south of McMillan Road. I will
have comments from Mr. Brad Hawkins-Clark.
Hawkins-Clark: Yes. This Final Plat request is the second phase of Havasu Creek
Subdivision. North Locust Grove Road is to the east. You approved Havasu Creek
Final Plat No. 1 a couple of months ago and this second phase is immediately to the
west of that first phase. An Ada County Subdivision, Crestwood, abuts to the north.
There is a stub street that goes into one of those five-acre lots that is on the south side
of McMillan Road. There are two open space storm water lot in this phase, both
located more or less on the southern part of the phase. The large one here is Lot 16.
We have received a letter from Justin Martin of Havasu Creek, LLC, dated today, April
1st
, and he has agreed in that memo to all of the site-specific requirement and general
requirements. With that, staff recommends approval, including all staff comments.
Corrie: Thank you, Brad. Is the representative here tonight? Name and address,
please.
Martin: Justin Martin, 5606 North Ten Mile Road. Mayor, Members of the Council, I do
agree with all of the requirements in the staff report. There would be two clean-up items
in the staff report, if I could. Item 1 we also have the Development Agreement in our
specific. We weren't required to have a Development Agreement in this project if we
could get that deleted. Then, on Item Number 6, there was just a typo on the first bullet.
At the end of the sentence of the first bullet, it says 13 in parenthesis and 15 in words if
we could just change the word 15 to 13 that would be fine. That's all.
Corrie: Okay. Thank you. Any questions?
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April 1, 2003
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Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Okay.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I move we approve the request for Final Plat of 31 building lots and two
other lots on 8.63 acres in an R-4 zone for Havasu Creek Subdivision No. 2. To delete
reference to Development Agreement in Site-Specific Number 1, and to change or
amend Item Number 6, Bullet Point Number 1, to read 13, instead of 15, and ask the
attorney draw up Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision of Order.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded to approve the Final Plat of
Havasu Creek No. 2 Subdivision with the changes in the removal in Number 1 and also
amend the Number 15 and Number 6. Any further discussion? Hearing none, roll call
vote, Mr. Berg.
Roll call: McCandless, aye; Nary, absent; de Weerd, aye; Bird, aye.
Corrie: All ayes. Motion to approve Final Plat for Havasu Creek Subdivision No. 2.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT
Corrie: Item Number 10 is a request for Final Plat approval of 31 building lots and three
other lots on 8.72 acres in an R-4 zone for Havasu Creek Subdivision No. 3 by Havasu
Creek, LLC, west of Locust Grove Road and south of McMillan Road. I will call on
Planning and Zoning to --
Hawkins-Clark: Thank you, Mayor. This third phase is immediately to the west of the
one you just approved. There is two points of public street connection between the two
at the north and the south ends of the phase. This is more or less central to the
section. As you can see, there is a north-south street and a couple of micropaths within
this phase that do provide a stub to what, in the Preliminary Plat, is shown to be a future
elementary school, which is over here to the -- to the west, platted in a future phase
under the Preliminary Plat. This particular phase has a gross density of 3.59 dwelling
units to the acre. As with Phase 2, we have received a memo from Justin Martin also
stating that they will comply with all of our recommended site-specific and general
requirements. I see that we have also required them to do a Development Agreement
on this one, which doesn't exist. I guess Dave McKinnon was on a role here the other
day. I think we got the first bullet point right on this one, though. Fourteen says 14 so I
think that's it.
Corrie: Okay. Is the representative here?
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April 1, 2003
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Martin: Justin Martin, 5606 North Ten Mile Road. Mayor, Members of the Council, yes,
that's exactly right, I agree with everything he said and we do agree with the staff report.
Thank you.
Corrie: Thank you. Any other discussion?
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Okay. I will entertain a motion, then, on the request for Final Plat.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would move that we approve the Final Plat approval for Item FP 03-016, for 31
building lots and three other lots on 8.72 acres in an R-4 zone for Havasu Creek
Subdivision No. 3 by Havasu Creek, LLC, west of Locust Grove Road and south of
McMillan Road. Let it be shown in site-specifics that there is no Development
Agreement as required in Item Number 1 and for the attorney to draw up Findings of
Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision of Order.
McCandless: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded to approve the request for the
Final Plat in Item Number 03-016. Any further discussion? Roll call vote, please, Mr.
Clerk.
Roll call: McCandless, aye; Nary, absent; de Weerd, aye; Bird, aye.
Corrie: Okay. All ayes voted. Motion is approved.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT
Item 11. TE 03-001 Request for a Time Extension on commencing construction
and recording the Final Plat for Fallon Greens Subdivision by Pinnacle
Engineers, Inc. – southwest corner of South Allen Street and Gentry Way:
Corrie: Item Number 11 is a request for a Time Extension on commencing construction
and recording the Final Plat for Fallon Greens Subdivision by Pinnacle Engineers, Inc.,
southwest corner of South Allen Street and Gentry Way. At this time, I will ask the
Planning and Zoning comments first.
Hawkins-Clark: Yes. Mayor, Members of the Council, we have received a request from
Mr. Clint Boyle of Pinnacle Engineers in a letter dated March 17th
to grant them a one
year Time Extension for construction and recording of this three lot commercial
subdivision that's at the corner of Allen Street and Freeway Drive in Magic View
Subdivision just north of the I-84-Eagle interchange. The City Council last month
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April 1, 2003
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approved a Miscellaneous Application, if you call, for modifying this plat to reconfigure
the lots. The Lot 1, Block 1, is proposed to be an 80-room hotel, the Hampton Inn
Suites, and the back two lots are proposed to be used for offices. The reason that was
given in the March 17th
letter is that the modifications had to be made through the city of
their Conditional Use Permit that was approved, as well as the Preliminary/Final Plat.
They also stated that there have been some issues with the developers in changing
hands and getting the configuration of the office buildings set up. Staff has reviewed it
they have submitted this within the required time frame to allow the time extension, so
staff has no problems granting this.
Corrie: Any questions of staff?
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Okay. With that, I will entertain a motion.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would move that we approve the request for a one year Time Extension on -- for
commencing construction and recording of the Final Plat for Fallon Greens Subdivision
by Pinnacle Engineers, southwest corner of South Allen Street and Gentry Way, and for
the time to extend until April 1, 2004.
McCandless: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded to approve the request for
extension of time for Fallon Greens Subdivision by Pinnacle Engineers. Any further
discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion say aye. Opposed no. All
right. Three ayes. Motion is approved.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT
Item 12. Continued Public Hearing from March 18, 2003: AZ 02-033 Request
for annexation and zoning of 104.77 acres from RUT to R-8 PD zones for
proposed Parkstone Subdivision by Hillview Development, Corp. – west
of North Eagle Road and north of East Ustick Road:
Item 13. Continued Public Hearing from March 18, 2003: PP 02-033 Request
for Preliminary Plat approval of 334 building lots and 34 other lots on
104.77 acres in a proposed R-8 PD zone for proposed Parkstone
Subdivision by Hillview Development, Corp. – west of North Eagle Road
and north of East Ustick Road:
Item 14. Continued Public Hearing from March 18, 2003: CUP 02-049 Request
for a Conditional Use Permit for a Planned Unit Development for 275
single-family dwellings, 52 townhomes, 4 office lots, 2 commercial lots, 1
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April 1, 2003
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mini-storage lot, 1 pocket park, 1 city neighborhood park and 32 common
lots on 104.77 acres for proposed Parkstone Subdivision by Hillview
Development, Corp. – west of North Eagle Road and north of East Ustick
Road:
Corrie: Item Numbers 12, 13, and 14 are Continued Public Hearings from March 18.
This is a -- Number 12 is a request for annexation and zoning of 104.77 acres from
RUT to an R-8 PD zone for proposed Parkstone Subdivision by Hillcrest Development
Corporation. Also, Item Number 13 is a request for Preliminary Plat approval of 334
building lots and 34 other lots on 104.77 acres of Parkstone Subdivision. Also a
Continued Hearing, a request for a Conditional Use Permit for the Planned Unit
Development for 275 single-family dwellings, 52 townhomes, four office lots, two
commercial lots and one mini storage lot and one pocket park and one city
neighborhood park and 32 common lots on 104.77 acres for Parkstone Subdivision. At
this time, I will open all three of the Continued Public Hearings and invite staff's
comments first.
Hawkins-Clark: Thank you, Mayor, Members of the Council. The three items that you
just opened are continued, so I won't go into a detailed explanation of the area. Just as
a reminder, we are talking about the parcel that is on the north side of Ustick Road.
The west boundary is approximately a quarter mile to the east from North Locust Grove
Road. It is bounded by Ada County parcels for the most part, other than Summerfield
Subdivision and the Education Campus Subdivision. Both are annexed and here on the
west boundary.
Corrie: Excuse me just a moment. We have got one Council person that's in another
meeting --
McCandless: He just arrived.
(Councilman Nary present.)
Corrie: He just arrived. Oh, good. I almost forgot that you did request that we put that
on a little later in the agenda, but since you're here --
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: We continued this on just four different items. One was the school
response. Second issue was regarding traffic and the center lane question, to get a
response from ACHD. The third issue was the easement in the back along the north
property line. The fourth issue was regarding parking in the park so, if we could limit
comments to those four issues.
Hawkins-Clark: Would you like me to continue, then?
De Weerd: Yes. Oh.
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Hawkins-Clark: Just checking. You have received a letter from Becky McKay that
addresses the items that Councilman de Weerd just mentioned. You have received a
letter dated March 17th
from Bruce Mills of Ada County Highway District that does
address some of the general information on traffic, as well as some of the north
Meridian traffic issues that have come up. Also, since your last meeting you received a
letter from Mr. Tom Davis and Sue Davis, dated March 27th
, that was in follow up of
some comments there at the last hearing. You have also received a memo from Doug
Strong, our Parks and Rec Director, regarding his discussions with Ms. McKay on the
public six-acre park that is there on the south side of the subdivision. They have come
to agreement on those issues. You also received a fax memo that was to myself from
Wendell Bigham of the School District that states that Discovery Elementary School,
which is the name of the elementary school being constructed now just to the west, that
that will accommodate the students generated from the final build out of this
subdivision. He notes that the boundaries were set and they continue their support for
Parkstone. He told me verbally that just -- these boundaries do kind of shift to and from
and so -- but given that this subdivision actually abuts the elementary school property,
it's highly unlikely that this subdivision's children would ever go to another school.
Then, I guess the -- I think those are the four items that you have received in your
packets since the last meeting. I guess there is five items there. As far as the issue on
the easement, staff has discussed this. Our understanding, as stated in Becky McKay's
letter, it is a user's ditch along the north side. It's a fairly large user's ditch. The
estimate from Mr. Nathan Draper that was given to our Public Works staff is that it
would require a 30-inch pipe. The Meridian School District has relocated slightly the
user's ditch on their property. They are piping it. The staff's recommendation at this
point is to provide a 20-foot easement across the back of those lots, as long as
cleanouts can be provided on both ends of this north boundary, so that there is no need
for any access into those rear lots. It should be clearly noted that those five lots on that
north boundary would have an easement, should any downstream or upstream user
need to access that for any purpose in the future. I think at this point that's all staff is
prepared to offer.
Corrie: Okay. The reason -- Becky, would you like to make any comment on those four
items there that we are holding the Public Hearing for this?
McKay: Yes, sir.
Corrie: Thank you.
McKay: On the issue of the schools and capacity, I did leave a message for Wendell.
Wendell did return my call and left me a very detailed message. I called him back and
left him a message to please call Brad and express his comments to Brad, so he got it
from the horse's mouth. I also spoke in person with Eric Exline, who is involved with the
District in their projections for these elementary schools and as far as the siting and
these capacity issues. What Eric Exline told me was when Riverview Elementary was
opened up, they set the boundaries in such a way that the day it opened it doors it was
full. The testimony concerning that elementary was correct. However, he said with
Discovery Elementary, the new one that's going to go on -- or that's under construction
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April 1, 2003
Page 13 of 48
at the Charter School site, that these kids from our development will attend, they took
that in consideration and they set the boundaries, anticipating that the number of
current kids will be 350. The school has a 650 capacity. They anticipate probably 100
kids coming from new homes being built in Edinburgh, Vienna Woods, Heritage
Commons, and Sundance. Then, when it opens in the fall of 2003, it most likely with
have 450 kids. For each year, they anticipate 100 additional children would come into
that elementary. Therefore, by the fall of 2005, the school will reach its 650. At that
time they will have a new elementary online in the North Meridian Area. That is their
plan. I said do you have any concerns about the Parkstone Development coming on
line and you guys being able to accommodate these children? He said, no, we were
well aware when we were doing our planning for these boundaries that that 100 acres
was on the verge of development and we were taking that into consideration. As the
population increases in this area, right now they show that boundary taking in these
three square miles, being Meridian Road to Eagle Road, McMillan to Ustick and, then,
20-26 to McMillan and so it's basically these three square mile and a little bit of nick out
of that section next to it. He said as those -- the children's population increases, then,
and we bring on the next elementary in North Meridian, we will shrink those boundaries
down and it will start functioning as an elementary which serves the section in which it's
in. He said the priority for those elementaries is to get as many children that are within
walking distance to that school, because busing the students costs the district money.
Also, it costs time for the parents if they have to drive their children also. He said they
had absolutely no concerns and that they would accept this development into that
elementary with open arms. The other issue that was brought forth was the other
developments in this North Meridian Area and as far as transportation is concerned,
how that -- how that picture looks like in its entirety, versus just windowing in on a
particular project. In your packet, I submitted a fax I received from Christie Richardson
that was written to the ACHD commissioners. Hopefully, you guys had an opportunity
to take a look at it and, basically, it says that the -- in summary, that Ada County
Highway District is going to be actively tracking the Building Permits being issued and
the growth in the North Meridian Area. That they intend to review and revise their CIP
every three years and that giving special attention to intersection improvement,
because they see that as the key to accommodating the growth out in these areas
where we have the minor arterial -- or two lane arterial roadways. Christie indicated to
me that they would have an individual here this evening to make some comments
concerning that. I'm not sure if he's here but if you look at the table -- I will just kind of
go can through it. You can see Ustick Road on table one is at the level of service C
currently. Between Eagle and Locust Grove, it's at 7,707 trips per day, with a threshold
of 14,000, and that's based on the Compass projections for the threshold on a two lane
minor arterial. Obviously, capacity does exist. ACHD is indicating that they have,
obviously, given their approval for this project and they are indicating that they are going
to keep their thumb on the pulse of the growth. When they are looking at -- Christie
indicated to me at the distribution of growth, they anticipate that it's not going to be 50
percent in the North Meridian Area, that you're going to have a lot -- a lot smaller
percentage when they look at the overall county growth. She didn't have any negative
concerns or comments that she wanted me to pass onto the Council. The third issue
was the issue of that center turn lane. Christie and I also discussed that. In fact, we
discussed that this morning. We are required to do the right decel lane, so you can
take pre-right, get out of traffic, make that turn into the new intersection that we create,
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but we are also required to do that center turn lane. The length of that lane is based on
the -- the miles per hour, the speed limit on the roadway. Then, obviously, based on our
frontage and, then, the width of the roadway and we do a taper because we have
aligned with both Leslie Drive and Wingate Lane, they will benefit from that turn lane
also. My question to ACHD is so when that lane is striped, can we have arrows going
both ways, so, if you're coming -- if you're going westbound and you want to make a
left-hand turn into Wingate Lane, they can get into that center turn lane and take that to
go to the south down to Wingate. In her opinion, she said, yes, it will benefit not only
your development, but also any properties to the south. What we have required of you
is the same as what we have required of other developments based on the amount of
traffic that they are going to be generating and putting out on the arterial. The third
issue is the park and the parallel parking. I did meet with Elroy Huff and your new
Parks Director Mr. Strong. We had an excellent meeting. We went through the parking
issues. He sent a memo to you. We are in agreement with his memo. We will be
adding additional parking. We will be adding two handicapped spaces. We will striping
for parallel parking along that local street. The concern from Councilman McCandless
was what about someone parking and, then, a child crossing that local street. Well, the
parking would be right up against the park, so if someone parked next to the park, the
kids on the passenger door would be able to go right into the park if they were going
southbound. To keep people from parking on the east side and children potentially
going across the roadway. Even though it is a local, not a collector, we came up with
the idea of signing resident only parking and just along those homes that are across
from the park so that the people would utilize the parallel parking as striped next to the
park and not park in front of someone's house, therefore, eliminating kids running
across the street, as like a drop-off situation. You're frowning. You do not understand --
Nary: No. I understand.
McKay: Okay. Well, it was just one -- you know, one solution to the comment that
Councilwoman McCandless had. The other issue is the easement along the north
boundary. We did have the surveyor and engineer come out, they did state that the
applicants met with Mr. Clapp out there, they looked at the ditch. Based on where
those property boundary stakes are, the ditch -- most of the ditch falls on their side.
There are some places that the boundary -- the south boundary of the ditch, that bank,
is falling on our side. We agree that there should be a full 20-foot easement along that
ditch, but that that easement typically goes ten feet on one side, ten feet on the other.
We would like -- we would bear the 10-foot easement, put that on our plat. We have
agreed also to coordinate with Mr. Clapp and to pipe that ditch, even though it is shared
by both property owners and most of it's on his side. I believe that issue is resolved. I
don't think we had any other items -- oh, the other item that was brought up by
Councilwoman McCandless was the issue of density. She made a statement about the
dense -- denseness of this project. If you read my memo, I just wanted to reiterate that
your Comprehensive Plan designates this as medium density residential, which is three
to eight. We are at 3.58 dwelling units per acre. That 3.58, obviously, is at that lower --
the lowest range we can get for that medium density residential. We have three --
around hovering three, a little over three of Summerfield right next door on our western
boundary. However, those were the days where they just did the straight R-4 and didn't
provide any amenities or any open space or any neighborhood parks. They have got, I
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April 1, 2003
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think, a little over an acre of a little pocket park in the middle for a development of
considerable size. We feel that we have done a good job. We went before your Parks
Commission, they have also given their blessing. I provided you with our calculations
that we presented at the last hearing concerning the park on the cost, what we are
willing to do. This is a nice project and it's right in line with what your Comprehensive
Plan. What your planners and what this Council has been asking us to provide,
something for the community, a good mixed-use development, well thought out, located
in an area where we already have existing growth, we are not leap frogging out, we are
next to the city limits, we are next to existing urban development. Do you have any
questions?
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I guess the one question I have, I guess, maybe it's for you, Ms. McKay, as well
as Mr. Strong, but we don't have any method in the city code to create resident zoned
parking. There is no -- there is nothing in the City Code to allow that. That's a public
street, so unless there is some mechanism, there isn't a way to create such a thing. I
guess my concern is that if you have parking on both sides of that street, is that going to
have -- is there any concern about the fire truck and fire --
McKay: It's a 36 -- yes. Standard. We are not asking for a reduction on that roadway
at all. It's a 36 back to back so it would allow parking both sides.
Nary: Okay. I guess that's about the only thing that Mr. Strong -- and maybe he has a
comment, but we don't have any method to create resident zoning.
McKay: If Ada County Highway -- Mr. Mayor, Councilman Nary, if Ada County Highway
District would allow it, would you be opposed to it?
Nary: Well, we would have to pass an ordinance. There is no ordinance to -- in Boise,
they have resident zoned parking.
McKay: You mean to impose --
Nary: Right. There is no way to enforce it --
McKay: To enforce it. Yes.
Nary: -- if you create residents only. In Boise, they have residents only parking in
different areas of Boise and they have a whole method in which to create that. We
don't have any such thing in Meridian. There is no way a law enforcement officer can
enforce residents only, because they won't know who lives there. I mean that particular
piece of it --
McKay: But could it be a deterrent, though? Would it not be a deterrent for people
parking on that side?
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April 1, 2003
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Nary: Putting up a sign that has no law -- no legal significance?
McKay: Well, people don't know that.
Nary: Well, they will figure it out pretty quick, so -- I mean that's just that one particular
piece I don't think really works. On that street that runs adjacent to the park, we think
will have an impact on this subdivision if we were to make that a park speed zone,
which is something I think we need to do and make that into a 20-mile an hour roadway.
McKay: I don't think we would be opposed. In fact, we would probably salute you for
doing that. The slower we can get the people to drive in subdivisions the better.
Nary: And, then, that's just something I try and get --
McKay: Well, that -- I mean that's going to be an issue with all the parks, even like a
community park at Lochsa, if they got a single loaded street with residences on one
side. The addition that's going to come before you in awhile to that Lochsa Park we
have got another situation where we are single loaded. When you get residents in
there, you know, like with Boise City and the Boise High issue, you know, they may get
complaints. People are parking when they have soccer practice in front my driveway. I
mean -- I guess it's something as you guys grow you're going to have to probably deal
with but it was one idea that we came up with trying to create a deterrent.
Nary: Sure.
Corrie: Of course, if they park across the driveway they can get ticketed.
McKay: We could also, I guess, sign the parallel parking for the park public parallel
parking for park use. Maybe that would draw them there. In my conversations with
your Parks Director, he indicated that, you know, about the only time you would see the
30 spaces filling up -- and that's what we have, a total of 30, including the parallel
parking, would be if they had like a little soccer practice there. On a daily use you
wouldn't see that many cars.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: Becky, I guess you have covered most -- or you have covered the items
that were noted. I just have one last question on the pond and the water circulation. A
little floating thing I don't think, really, is sufficient. Had you given any extra thought on
what exactly is going to be done there?
McKay: Mr. Mayor, Councilwoman de Weerd, typically, what we do is work with the
landscape architects and get their recommendations based on the depth, the size, on
how to keep that water circulating. I have seen what you're talking about, some of
those little floating ones don't get a good enough spray to get the ripples clear to the
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April 1, 2003
Page 17 of 48
edge and you do see some moss grow around the edge of those ponds. They have
some other ones that are a lot more powerful, I think they still float, and there is some
that are stationary like you have there at Eagle Road and the bypass. They have got
one that sprays out. They have got the waterfall coming down, but, then, they have
also got one that's stationary and it sprays quite a little bloom. I think what your staff
has asked us on other projects where we have any water amenity is that we have got to
provide them with documentation and a design, so that they can be assured that we are
going to get proper water circulation and we don't end up with just a stagnant, mossy
pond. It all depends on size and depth.
De Weerd: Thank you.
McKay: Thank you.
Corrie: Just to throw a little curve at you, would you raise your right hand, please?
McKay: Yes, sir.
Corrie: Is the testimony that you have given the Council the truth, so help you God?
McKay: Yes, sir.
Corrie: Thank you.
De Weerd: State your name and --
McKay: Becky McKay.
Corrie: Thank you, Becky. There is any representative from ACHD here that wants to
testify tonight on this -- is the testimony you are about to give the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mills: It is.
Corrie: Name and address, please.
Mills: Bruce Mills. ACHD. Garden City. I'm the right-of-way and zoning services
manager and I guess I'm here more to answer questions. I guess if you have
questions, I would be willing to take a stab at it.
Corrie: Okay. Any questions? I think staff has been pretty good at answering those
about the center turn lane and the traffic study. Anybody else have any questions?
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
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Nary: I guess just so the record is clear, I did read all the minutes from the last meeting,
which is why we set this over. One of the things that was brought up by some of the
neighbors was the volume of traffic now. The difficulty in basically driving, especially in
the morning, peak times, that exits in this area currently and what was discussed. I
think what we received from ACHD was, in relationship to all the other developments
there as to when changes are going to occur. I think Becky has talked about that a little
bit, but maybe you can highlight that a little bit. We are not talking about just a turn lane
for this area, but this area right now is considered a level of service C, so how is all
these other developments going impact this area and when are these improvements
going to occur, besides just a turn lane.
Mills: Mr. Mayor and Councilman Nary, yes, as Becky said, this area of Ustick has
between 7 and 8,000 cars a day on it right now and according to the Compass
threshold for a level of service D, it can go up to 14,000 cars a day. The entire North
Meridian Area -- in fact, I think you have seen some of the recent transmittals we have
sent over to you -- to Meridian. It's certainly going to grow, it's certainly going to grow
faster than what the COMPASS projections are, and, yet, not necessarily we feel as fast
as some of the other projections that were in the traffic study done by the Washington
Group. In any event, the best I can tell you at this time is we are going to be monitoring
it. The present roads that are closer to 14,000 in traffic now, those are the ones that we
are looking to construct immediately. We will be collecting impact fees from all these
developments, those monies will go towards present and future projects, so they will
certainly be used for improvements on these and we are just going to have to monitor it.
One nice thing is we are now going to, as Becky had mentioned, go to a three year
process of updating our Capital Improvements Plan and that's where we look for the
next 20 years and say which projects do we need to get done. I also might add that we
are working right now with an impact fee task force and we are also revising the CIP
that was put together in December. One of the things we are looking at doing is adding
-- taking a closer look at all the intersections, both in this area and countywide and
looking at putting more intersection projects in, as opposed to just doing all the lengths
connecting the roadways. The intersections, as they are improved with signals and the
turn lanes, that's what's really going to move the traffic and help them follow in getting
those intersections improved. Then, we can come back and add extra lanes for
carrying additional volume on the roads. I don't know if I have totally answered your
question, but --
Hawkins-Clark: Mr. Mayor, would it be possible for staff to ask a question?
Corrie: Yes.
Hawkins-Clark: In Mr. Mills' memo he mentions the elimination of your standard
condition that says extraordinary impact fees would be collected in North Meridian Area.
Is that what you're proposing to apply to Parkstone as well, that that condition, which
was originally sent over to the city, is now eliminated and so there will not be conditions
applied?
Mills: That is correct. Actually, we have legal advice that says that we cannot -- we
cannot make someone sign a statement saying that they are going to have to pay the
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April 1, 2003
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extraordinary impact fee where right now there is no need for that. In other words, the
extraordinary impact fee would be used in a situation where a large development would
come in, say a Costco or something, and would throw so much traffic in place. There
would -- and there were no plans to do any improvements and, yet, this would create an
immediate need of level of service F, that type of thing. On our own legal advice, we
were told it was best to drop that. We are still content for when the condition is there
that alerts them to the fact that there may be some conditions that they may have to
meet in the future, they may have to participate in some future specialties, but we
cannot require it.
Hawkins-Clark: Thank you.
Corrie: Thank you. Any other questions?
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Okay. Thank you. Council, any other questions that you have -- one of the
reasons, again, so everybody knows, the reason we kept the Public Hearing open, is so
that we can receive other testimony that we didn't have. It's not really open up for
public testimony anymore, but just for some specific items. We had -- well, I notice that
we had three sign up, two were neutral, and one was for. That being the case, Council,
do you have any other questions that you need to ask?
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Is there anyone from the audience here that has to deal with these four
questions that we don't have? Do you? Okay. If you want to come up.
Clapp: My name is Vic Clapp. I live at 2255 Paradise --
Corrie: Just a second. Is the testimony you are about to give the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth?
Clapp: Yes, it is.
Corrie: Thank you.
Clapp: My name is Vic Clapp. I live at 2255 Paradise Lane in Meridian, and I want to
express my gratitude to Mr. Merkle and Mr. Hutt for coming out and surveying the
property and meeting with me, that was a nice touch, and for Becky's efforts as well.
They have done a real nice job. One other question has come up in further discussion
with my neighbors. They were saying that there is a proposal for a greenbelt to go -- I
was hoping not, but I thought I had better bring it up. Okay. Excellent. Okay. Thank
you.
Corrie: All right. Council, any other questions? Okay. All right. Then, if you have no
other questions, we can entertain a motion to close the Public Hearing.
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April 1, 2003
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Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: If everybody is ready, I would move that we close the Public Hearings on Item
Number 12, which is AZ 02-033; also Item Number 13, which is PP 02-033, and Item
Number 14, which is CUP 02-049.
De Weerd: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded to close the Public Hearings on
Item Numbers 12, 13, and 14. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor
say aye. Opposed no? All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Corrie: Okay. We will take Item Number 12. This is a request for annexation and
zoning of 104.77 acres from RUT to an R-8 PD zone for proposed Parkstone
Subdivision. Discussion? Hearing none, I will entertain a motion.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that we approve AZ 02-033, request for annexation and zoning of 104.77
acres from RUT to R-8 PD zones for proposed Parkstone Subdivision by Hillview
Development Corp., west of North Eagle Road and north of East Ustick Road. To
incorporate staff comments, applicant's replies, and for the attorney to draw up Findings
of Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision of Order.
De Weerd: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded to approve the request for
annexation and zoning for Parkstone Subdivision. Any further discussion?
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I guess I just have one. I mean I appreciate the applicant getting us more
detailed information, instead of speculating on the school district's reply. Appreciate
having that information in front of us. That with ACHD as well. The park design is
much better. I think it's going to be a greater asset to the city with the increased amount
of parking. I think the ball is in the city's court as far as getting some ordinances that
would be applicable to some of the traffic situations, not only that will save this park, but
in all of our park areas, in particular, when they are in subdivisions with houses on the
opposite side of the street. I do appreciate that. I know that there just was not a
comfortable level in ruling on this two weeks ago with all of the loose ends that it had
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April 1, 2003
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and I also appreciate you meeting with Mr. Clapp and finding those property pins and
the easement so, that's the only comment I have.
Corrie: Okay. Any other comments?
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Roll call vote, please, Mr. Berg.
Roll call: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; de Weerd, aye; Bird, aye.
Corrie: All ayes. Motion is approved.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Corrie: Item Number 13 is a Public Hearing -- or, excuse me, is a request for a
Preliminary Plat for approval of 334 building lots, 34 other lots, on 104.77 acres for
Parkstone Subdivision.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would move that we approve PP 02-033, the request Preliminary Plat approval of
334 building lots and 34 other lots on 104.77 acres in a proposed R-8 PD zone for the
proposed Parkstone Subdivision by Hillview Development Corp., west of North Eagle
Road and north of East Ustick Road. To incorporate staff comments, applicant's replies
and for the attorney to draw up Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision
of Order.
Nary: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been and seconded. Any further discussion?
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I just want to put on the record I think that probably the biggest comment or the
most -- the strongest comments that we heard, both at the Planning and Zoning
Commission in the minutes and as well at the last meeting was the plat here, the
volume of residences that are going to be built there. This is a 100-acre piece of
property, 100 acres of property. This is exactly what we asked people to do, is to find
ways to make it usable density, that's what they have done, they have provided -- they
have provided some city park land. They have provided some good quality
development here, and I think Councilman Bird said it the best two weeks ago, they
won't be expanding that roadway to make it better without the impact fees that these
generate. You know, it is kind of a chicken and egg thing, but I think this is what we
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April 1, 2003
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have asked people to do, this is exactly the kind of development we are seeking and
wanting for our community. This is a very good development, this is very nice, and, like
I said, it helps move along on the park zone in speed, so -- keeping the speed down
affects the kids there. Great. I don't have a real concern. I know it's going to be a lot of
cars eventually, but you know, there is going to be a lot of cars eventually. That's what
we have to deal with.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I'd like to, if the second agrees, put the proper Preliminary Plat, the date is March
26, 2003, I believe.
Nary: I concur.
Corrie: Okay. Any other discussion?
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: Does this -- does this new plat have the easement and that sort of thing on
it, as far as the testimony?
McKay: No.
De Weerd: So, you may want to -- you want to know that specifically?
Bird: Yes. I would. The easement up at the north end does not show on the plat, but
I'm sure we will get it taken care of.
De Weerd: And they would be tiling the ditch.
Bird: Tiling the ditch.
Nary: And offering the 10-foot easement.
Bird: Yes 10-foot easement. Does the second agree?
Nary: I concur. Yes.
Bird: Okay.
Corrie: Okay. Any other discussion?
Bird: I have none.
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April 1, 2003
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Corrie: Okay. With that said, motion -- have roll call vote, Mr. Clerk.
Roll call: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; de Weerd, aye; Bird, aye.
Corrie: All ayes. Motion is adopted.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Corrie: Item Number 14 is a request for a Conditional Use Permit for a Planned Unit
Development for 275 single-family dwellings, 52 townhomes, four office lots, two
commercial lots, one mini storage lot, one pocket park, one city neighborhood park, and
32 common lots on 104.77 acres for Parkstone Subdivision.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I guess I'm on a role on this one. I would move that we approve CUP 02-049,
request for a Conditional Use Permit for a Planned Unit Development for 275 single-
family dwellings, 52 townhomes, four office lots, two commercial lots, one mini storage
lot, one pocket park, one city neighborhood park, and 32 common lots on 104.77 acres
for the proposed Parkstone Subdivision by Hillview Development Corp. West of the
North Eagle Road and north of East Ustick Road and incorporate staff comments,
applicant's replies and comments, and for the attorney to draw up Findings of Facts and
Conclusions of Law and Decision of Order.
Nary: Second.
Corrie: The appropriate motion has been made and seconded. Is there any further
discussion? Hearing none, roll call vote, Mr. Berg.
Roll call: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; de Weerd, aye; Bird, aye.
Corrie: All ayes. Motion to approve is given.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Corrie: Why don't we take a five-minute break here for just a second and, then, we will
go into Items 15, 16, 17 on the Northbridge Subdivision.
(Recess.)
Item 15. Continued Public Hearing from March 25, 2003: AZ 02-032 Request
for annexation and zoning of 5.0 acres from RUT to R-2 zones for
proposed Northbridge Subdivision by Centennial Development, LLC –
west of North Meridian Road on West Ustick Road:
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April 1, 2003
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Item 16. Continued Public Hearing from March 25, 2003: PP 02-035 Request
for Preliminary Plat approval of 5 building lots and 4 other lots on 5.0
acres in a proposed R-2 zone for proposed Northbridge Subdivision by
Centennial Development, LLC – west of North Meridian Road on West
Ustick Road:
Item 17. Continued Public Hearing from March 25, 2003: MI 03-013 Request
for a private road for proposed Northbridge Subdivision by Centennial
Development, LLC – west of North Meridian Road on West Ustick Road:
Corrie: Okay. I will reopen the meeting. Thank you all for your patience. Item Number
15, 16, and 17 is a request for annexation and zoning of five acres from RUT to an R-2
zone for proposed Northbridge Subdivision. Item Number 16 is a request for
Preliminary Plat and also Item Number 17 is a request for a private road. At this time I
will open the Continued Public Hearing and this is a request from the -- Mr. Shawn
Nickel, that due to an applicant's schedule, that he would like to have it postponed until
tonight, so we will be having the continued Public Hearing tonight. At this time I will
open the Continued Public Hearing and ask staff comments first.
Hawkins-Clark: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, on Item Number 15, the
annexation request, they are requesting annexation to an R-2 zone. We are talking
about the property on the south side of Ustick Road, about a quarter mile west of north
Meridian. The city's reservoir is generally just across the street there and the city park.
There is a church on the property shown here as Strausser Farm Subdivision No. 2 that
is in Ada County. Salisbury Subdivision does abut the property to the south. Again,
they are -- Planning and Zoning Commission did recommend approval of the
annexation and zoning to the R-2 zone. Item Number 16 is the request for the plat and,
as shown on the screen here, they are proposing a single point of access off of Ustick
Road. All of the buildable lots that they are proposing are here on the east side of the
street and, then, one here on the south end of the cul-de-sac. There is an existing
house that is off of Ustick. The public street -- well, actually, let me address Item 17
while I'm at it here. Item 17 is the miscellaneous request for private road. Ada County
Highway District recommended that the City Council not approve a private and make it
a public. The Planning and Zoning Commission supported that, they have
recommended a public street, and my understanding is that the applicant, Mr. Amar, is
in agreement with that. We may need some advice from the attorney as to whether or
not we just deny Item 17 or just have them withdraw it, but I won't go any further on
that, since there is no need for that application now. I would just quickly touch on Item
16, again. The Planning and Zoning Commission did have quite a bit of discussion, if
you read the minutes, about ground water and drainage out here in this area. The soils
study report that was submitted with their application did raise some concerns about
that. The Public Works staff is certainly here and can maybe speak to that a little bit
more, should you have any questions on that, but the proposal in terms of the street is
to have a sidewalk only on the east side of this public street, adjacent to the residences.
The west side of the street would just kind of have a concrete lip and the drainage
would, essentially, sheet off and go into a common lot that they are proposing to
construct that runs the full length of the new private street. This plan does not reflect it,
but they are proposing to stub -- this street, essentially, would be a knuckle, instead of a
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April 1, 2003
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cul-de-sac, that would provide for future public street extension down into Salisbury
Lane Subdivision. As you can see, there is a stub street coming out of Salisbury on the
south side. I understand that the 20-foot wide sewer easement that was required to
bring the sewer up through Salisbury, through this county property, and, then, into the
proposed annexed property, that that 20-foot easement has been obtained and
secured. The staff report is dated February 20th
, that does propose conditions. There
have been -- there has not been a revised plat to reference, so I think in any motion you
just refer to the original application and the original plat date. I think the only other
concern I'd like to bring up at this point in time is the fact that the property that has got
an existing house on it here on the south side of Ustick is not proposed to be annexed
with this property. However, they are the property owner that signed consent for this
property -- for this application to come through. I have concerns about the enclaves
that we are creating and I think that, if Council agrees, that we ask them to include that
property within their subdivision annexation and legal description. Thank you.
Corrie: Thank you, Brad. Any questions?
Bird: He just answered my question.
Corrie: Okay. Is the representative -- developer or representative here this evening? Is
the testimony you are about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,
so help you God?
Amar: Yes, sir.
Corrie: Name and address, please.
Amar: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Council Members for the record, Kevin Amar address 114
East Idaho, Suite 230, in Meridian. We are here before you on -- as you can see,
Northbridge Subdivision, five lots, with a density of five units -- one unit per acre. These
lots are larger lots ranging from a half acre to three quarters of an acre, using rough
numbers. The project, as we initially proposed it, we had asked for a private road and
that was due to the constraints of -- under current ACHD policy and the City of Meridian
policy, would not allow us to do a ribbon curb. They want curb -- full curb, gutter, and
sidewalk. The storm drain this area -- or the water table in this area does make it
difficult to have an effective storm drain to where the common area or the storm drain
facilities aren't always wet and cause numerous problems, I'm sure, which you're all
aware. If we can sheet flow off the road, which ACHD has allowed in this case, even
allowing a public road, then, we can deal with that on a more direct basis, instead of
piping or carrying it to one central location. For that reason if -- and maybe this
depends on your counsel's -- Legal Counsel's advice, we can either withdraw the
request for a private road or it be denied. With the terms and conditions that both
ACHD staff and your staff have put upon this project and have worked with us on, we
can live with those and make it a public road, stubbing the -- as Brad had indicated,
stubbing this for a future connectivity to those other parcels. We hadn't provided that
initially, because it was a private road and private roads and public roads don't always
mix real well. We are happy to have a public road in this area. Other than that, the
project, as it stands, with staff conditions, we are in agreement with all staff conditions.
Meridian City Council Meeting
April 1, 2003
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We appreciate them working with us and trying to come up with a solution to an area
that does have a few challenges with respect to ground water and storm drain. We
have looked at it also for ground water and, actually, building a house and we think we
can accomplish the construction of houses without any significant problems. With
respect to the house -- the existing house up here, that is an out parcel. We are not
proposing to annex it, and it's one acre and it has a set up now for horses and corrals
and, as I understand it, the City of Meridian doesn't -- the city does not have a function
to allow livestock. That's what we were told as recently as today. We want to leave that
open, so the people can have livestock on that property. With that, I don't know that we
need to go -- we agree with the staff report, we agree with all the conditions that are
being imposed on us, and I will stand for any questions.
Corrie: I'll let Council -- Mr. Bird.
Bird: You are requesting that -- you're going to pull the private road, the MI 03-013,
request for private road am I not right?
Amar: We can either pull that or deny it. Either way.
Bird: I'd prefer you -- as a Councilman, prefer you pull it here publicly during the Public
Hearing.
Amar: That's fine. We will withdraw that request.
Bird: Withdraw it that and that way we have nothing to come back and bite us. I think
on the house there, I thought we had a grandfather -- Brad, you can tell me, but I
thought -- I mean I think I have seen animals inside the city limits, if it's an existing little
place. I don't think that would be a reason to leave that out of being annexed.
Hawkins-Clark: Mayor and Council Members, that's correct, the ordinance states that
the livestock can be maintained, you just can't increase the number.
Bird: No. The number. That's right.
Corrie: With that being said, do you think the applicant would readjust his application to
include that piece as not being an enclave?
Amar: I know -- in my conversation with the applicant, the owners they did not want to
include that in the annexation. It was a separate parcel and they decided to keep that
out as such.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Maybe I could state it a different way. If we were going to turn it down unless
they wanted to include it, is that what they would prefer? Because creating an enclave
is not something we really want to do.
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April 1, 2003
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Bird: No.
Nary: So, maybe, do you want to ask them?
Amar: I do have a question. This house takes access currently from Ustick and, as
proposed, would continue to take access from Ustick. Does that change access to it?
Does it change improvement requirements along Ustick Road?
Corrie: I'd ask, Brad, would ACHD require the improvement on Ustick Road if they are
annexed?
Hawkins-Clark: We do have an ACHD representative here, but my understanding is
that any -- the boundaries of a plat, they would typically require those improvements
within the legal boundaries. Yes, I think the big question is -- I believe it's 125-foot
offset -- well, actual on Ustick, as a minor arterial it may be more, but in terms of the
locations of drives, and streets and the minimum offset distance there --
Nichols: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: Mr. Mayor, if I can ask a question of Mr. Amar. Is the existing house a
separate tax parcel now?
Amar: Yes, sir.
Nichols: Okay. Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, if I could throw my two bits worth in
here.
Corrie: Do so.
Nichols: There may be a way of getting this -- getting the out parcel -- avoiding the
enclave issue without creating the plat issues that Mr. Amar just alluded to and that
would be a condition of approval, could be that that parcel be annexed -- or at least
have a consent -- irrevocable consent to annex recorded as to that parcel. One of the
issues that I have seen used in another jurisdiction is that, typically, the property that is
proposed to be developed is not, actually, owned at this point by the developer, it's
simply under option. One of the terms of the option is approval for the development, so
that if the development is denied, then, the developer is not stuck with ground that they
can't develop. At the same point in time, the owner of the property doesn't get the cash
and at least in Nampa one instance that I'm aware of, the person that wanted to keep
their home out came in with a letter agreeing to annex, because it was potentially going
to stand in the way of his ability to close on an optioned piece of ground. What I'm
saying is there are -- the other issue that needs to be considered, if you're going to
require that house to come in, is the issue of water and sewer and whether they are
allowed to keep their well and their septic, which they have now. The existing
ordinance, I think, requires connection, but you could probably modify that in terms of a
Meridian City Council Meeting
April 1, 2003
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consent to annexation and that the connect would be deferred until such time as it failed
or just a specific time line, ten years or something like that, that would give them some
relief from that, where they already have a working system. Just those things for your
consideration.
Corrie: Any other questions of Council? Is the -- you're the applicant, but is the owner
of that piece of property here tonight?
Amar: I don't believe so.
Corrie: Okay. Personally, I would like to have some answers before we do anything
here. I don't know about the Council, but there are a lot of ifs right now.
Amar: With respect to the -- that parcel correct?
Corrie: Yes.
Amar: Let me ask a question. Are there ifs with respect to other -- with the subdivision
or is it strictly with that -- with that out parcel?
Corrie: Well, a lot of things depend upon that out parcel right now with the subdivision.
I mean if I'm hearing the attorney correctly, if they want to -- I don't know -- I don't know
whether I can ask the question -- do they -- have you got a -- do you own the property
or do they own all that property and you're trying to get it zoned?
Amar: Correct. They do own the property.
Corrie: Okay.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I guess I would agree with what you're saying, to, Mr. Mayor. I guess the
question I have -- and I think we are all talking about up here is it's very troublesome to
us to create an enclave around here. I mean I know these folks, basically, want to
subdivide their pasture and that's fine. Without having that other piece in the city, it --
and I think that Mr. Nichols has raised very valid alternatives to doing that, you know. I
think you need an opportunity to talk to those folks about that, because they may not be
interested in any of it and there is, certainly, the potential that we may not be interested
in annexing it because of it. I think you need to -- you deserve the opportunity to have
that discussion with them and expressed to them what our concerns are in that and all
the alternatives that were raised by Mr. Nichols of having an irrevocable consent,
something that gives them time to amortize -- I don't know what the state of the well is
or the state of their septic system. That gives them time to amortize that out and, then,
hook up at some point or if they sell the house, they can -- it could be done at that point
or something like that. You hear our concerns, but would you like to have some
opportunity to discuss that with them?
Meridian City Council Meeting
April 1, 2003
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Amar: I do hear your concerns and I do appreciate that. I do want say up front on all
projects that we have ever brought to Meridian we have annexed any of those out
parcels or ownership parcels. This is the first one we have not done so. We do
understand that it is a concern of the City of Meridian. We also are all anxious to have it
-- a recommendation for approval or denial on this project due to contract constraints. I
guess my request this evening would be a recommend for approval or denial with those
conditions. Either we annex that parcel or we don't and if you do annex it and that is a
recommendation for approval, then, that's what's required in order to give approval. If it
is not something, you want to annex in and we don't. Either way, I would like to get a
decision, knowing that there are options, as the property owner wants to sell, then, it
must be annexed. If the property owner wants to sell, then, there must be a certain
time frame that they would have to hook up to those city services. Knowing that
information, then, we can move forward and base our decisions, I guess, as can the
property owner, on the decision that is made here tonight.
Corrie: We can certainly do that.
Amar: Thank you.
Corrie: Any other questions? Any other --
Amar: Maybe if you have more questions.
Corrie: Any other questions? Thank you.
Amar: Thank you.
Corrie: This is a Public Hearing. Is there anyone else in the audience that would like to
testify? Wanda Palmer, do you want to testify at this time? Is the testimony you are
about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Palmer: It is.
Corrie: Thank you. Name and address, please.
Palmer: Wanda Palmer. 405 West Ustick Road, Meridian, Idaho. Mr. Mayor, City
Council Members, I have copies of my -- do I give it to you? This has to do with the
proposed entrance there -- I live adjacent to -- west of the proposed entry into John and
Leta Barton's property. I recently learned that the entry off Ustick Road, rather than the
entry being that -- the two planned stubs in Sedgwick Drive Subdivision. The blueprints
I have been shown show 12 houses to be built, which will generate several cars, school
buses, garbage, trucks, et cetera, on a road that will be only 10 feet from my bedroom
window. I live -- if you can see it, that little oblong up at the top there by Ustick Road
right in there. Thank you. Besides the noise factor the cars will generate, I am
concerned about a roadway being built over an expanse of hardpan with an extremely
high water table. The hardpan is only about 16 to 18 inches under the surface along
our boundary. We have always been very careful from early spring until the irrigation
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April 1, 2003
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water is discontinued in the fall, to avoid any water accumulating in that area, because
there simply is no way or place for it to drain. The water under the hardpan flows from
east to west, causing it to perpetually flood our seepage beds. The Barton’s have been
very cooperative about not flood irrigating that area, knowing that we would be unable
to use our septic system. Even when the area is sprinkled for only a few hours, the
water will stand until it evaporates. A few years ago, the Barton’s had to install a
drainage area around their house because of the high water table. It would seem a
better solution to me to either enter from the south of the property or to the east side of
the Barton's house. The plans could simply be flip-flopped. The Northpark Fellowship
Church and the Jack Sweets own the full length of the property to east of Barton’s with
no plans to build houses that would present a problem with noise or flooding. In fact,
the church tells me they plan to put in soccer fields adjoining Barton's property, in which
case they will probably need the road there anyway. I am asking you to reconsider the
location for the entrance to the subdivision. Do you have any questions for me?
Corrie: Okay. Thank you.
Palmer: Thank you.
Corrie: Anyone else from the public that would like to issue testimony? Kevin, any
comments about the high water and also the flip-flop plan?
Amar: We have -- yes. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I'll try to address Mrs. Palmer's
concerns. First, with respect to the water table, we have done tests, monitoring wells in
this area, and have monitored them for about a year now certainly, through the last
irrigation season. The highest that it got was four and a half feet, I think, and that was
during a gravity irrigation, that's when they were watering -- I think a day or two after
they watered. We feel comfortable that we can, with the alternative design that's been
approved by ACHD and supported by your staff, that that can be accomplished. I think
the water that Mrs. Palmer is seeing now certainly has that, because of the flood
irrigation. We are required to have a pressurized irrigation system, which is easier to
control and easier to monitor for any potential flooding. I think her situation would
improve with the subdivision, also with it being -- got my pointer now. I couldn't find it.
With this area being -- and this road, where she did have -- my understanding of her
testimony -- some problems with the irrigation with respect to her property, it is now a
road and a grassy swale for collection of storm water, the majority of that storm water,
obviously, will be down in here during those high events. I think her situation will
improve greatly with respect to the water. With respect to flip-flopping the plan, the
existing house here had some additional improvements in this area, some corrals, and
a shop, so the ability to flip-flop that is difficult with respect to the existing improvements
there. We have tried to provide a nice landscape buffer island, things of that nature.
She did make reference to 12 houses and initially we had a plan drawn up that did have
12 or 13 houses on there, but due to the -- our inability do a standard storm drain
design, we weren't able to accomplish that plan, so we reduced the number of houses
and did more of a rural road section. With that, I would stand for any questions of
Council.
Bird: I have none.
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April 1, 2003
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Corrie: Council, any questions? Okay.
Amar: Thank you.
Corrie: Council, any further questions on the Public Hearing?
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Just to throw some thoughts out for the Council, I'm not willing to pass this
annexation and zoning as it is. We have been working to get rid of enclaves and all we
are doing is creating another one by not making that come in. Now, I don't know
whether the right thing to do is to pass it with the condition that that has to be in to be
passed or whether we deny it. I think that's something Council has to decide. Item
Number 17, I believe, they just requested to pull that, withdraw that, and so we don't
even have to worry about that. I am definitely against the subdivision as it stands now,
without that existing house coming in.
Corrie: I think he asked that we either deny it or accept it so, any other comments?
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I agree with Council Member Bird that we can't create an enclave, if that's
just going to be a condition and, then, the applicant decides whether to sell or not,
that's, I guess, up to them. I do like the fact that, you know, we have a goal of offering
housing situations and a half acre or plus is very hard to find in our city and so I like the
fact that this will -- the density that they are proposing -- and its minimal impact on the
neighbors and it fits nicely. I would have no problem approving this with the condition
that that parcel be included in the annexation and that the road not be private, it be
public, as the applicant has agreed to.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I guess since we are all chiming in with our two cents, I guess I would -- I would
agree with both Council Member Bird and Council Member de Weerd about the issue
on the enclave. I'm not willing to write it for them. I mean that's why the offer was to let
them go figure out what they want. Mr. Amar doesn't want that, he wants us to either
deny it or approve it with conditions and I'm not going to write it for you -- I'm not going
to write those conditions for you. I'm not going to do that. We ran into a situation
recently where we thought people wanted to be annexed, we annexed them anyway,
and they didn't really want to be annexed and now they want to be de-annexed. So --
and I don't want to do that, you know. If the property owner wants it, then, that's what
Meridian City Council Meeting
April 1, 2003
Page 32 of 48
he will do. If they don't want it, then, they don't get to subdivide their backyard yet, they
are going to have to wait or they are going to have to decide what works best for what
we want. I just -- I just feel uncomfortable in trying to fashion that, bring it back in two
weeks or four weeks, hammer out an agreement of some sort and we are going to be
battle over this for a month or two. If you don't want to continue it, I'd just as soon deny
it, go figure out whether you want to come back with something else.
Corrie: Thank you.
McCandless: Mr. Mayor, I agree with both Mr. Bird and Mr. Nary. I think we can either
continue it and we can find out whether they want to be annexed or not or we can deny
it now but I don't want to approve it with conditions.
Corrie: Okay. I will entertain a motion to close the Public Hearing if you so desire.
Nary: So moved, Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Okay.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Do I hear a second?
De Weerd: Yes. It was seconded.
Corrie: I'm sorry. Yes, Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: Why would we close it with what -- when we are going to wait, unless Mr.
Amar would like us to vote today. From what I heard the Council say, you know, we
would like them to fashion the condition themselves. If that's not acceptable, it's still
open -- the Public Hearing is still open, you have an opportunity to respond, and
otherwise, it sounds like this will be denied.
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd, that was -- the question was asked by Mr. Nary and he said he
wanted us to either deny it or accept it. Under the circumstances, I think that we ought
to accommodate what he wants and we can -- we can vote on it, we can deny it, or we
can approve it and if we deny it, then, he gets his choice of either denying or approval.
De Weerd: So, he has no comment?
Corrie: We are still in Public Hearing. We haven't voted yet.
Amar: Thank you. We would like a decision -- rather, a decision tonight for
recommendation of approval, approval with conditions, or denial, due to different
circumstances and time constraints, things of that nature, that need to have a decision.
We understand what may happen, but --
Corrie: Okay.
Meridian City Council Meeting
April 1, 2003
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Amar: Thank you.
De Weerd: That's fair.
Corrie. Okay. Motion has been made and seconded. Any further discussion? All
those in favor of the motion say aye. The Public Hearing is closed.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Corrie: Any other discussion? Okay. Item Number 15 is a request annexation and
zoning of Northbridge Subdivision.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would move that we deny AZ 02-032, request for annexation and zoning of 5.0
acres from RUT to R-2 zones for the proposed Northbridge Subdivision by Centennial
Development, LLC, west of North Meridian Road on West Ustick Road. For the
attorney to draw up the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law showing denial and
stating that the denial is because the first -- the existing building is not part of the
request for annexation and zoning and we do not want enclaves.
De Weerd: Second.
Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded. Any further discussion? Hearing none,
roll call vote, Mr. Berg.
Roll call: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; de Weerd, aye; Bird, aye.
Corrie: All ayes. Motion for request for annexation and zoning is denied.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Corrie: Item Number 16, request for Preliminary Plat approval of Northbridge
Subdivision.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would move that we deny PP 02-035, request for Preliminary Plat approval of
five building lots and four other lots on 5.0 acres in a proposed R-2 zone for the
proposed Northbridge Subdivision by Centennial Development, LLC. West of North
Meridian Road on West Ustick Road and for the attorney to draw up the Findings of
Facts and Conclusions of Law, Decision of Order showing the denial, because of not --
of denying annexation and zoning.
Meridian City Council Meeting
April 1, 2003
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McCandless: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded. Any further discussion? Hearing
none, roll call vote, Mr. Berg.
Roll call: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; de Weerd, aye; Bird, aye.
Corrie: All ayes. Motion for the request for Preliminary Plat is denied.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Corrie: The applicant has requested that they pull the Item Number 17, the request for
a public road -- private road. Excuse me. Mr. Nichols, that's all that's required correct?
Nichols: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, not only that, your prior decision has
made that one moot as well, so –
Item 18. Public Hearing: AZ 03-001 Request for annexation and zoning of
10.006 acres from RUT to L-O zones for Central Valley Baptist Church
by Central Valley Baptist Church – east of North Ten Mile Road and south
of West Pine Avenue:
Corrie: Thank you. Item Number 18 is a Public Hearing. This is a request for
annexation and zoning of 10.006 acres from RUT to an L-O zone for Central Valley
Baptist Church by Central Valley Baptist Church, east of North Ten Mile and South of
West Pine Avenue. At this time, I will open the Public Hearing on Item Number 18 and
invite staff's comments.
Hawkins-Clark: Thank you, Mayor, Members of the Council. This property is located on
the east side of North Ten Mile Road, adjacent to the Union Pacific Railroad. They
have a 200-foot right of way width and this southern boundary is contiguous to that.
West Pine Avenue is just to the north and the property owner is -- or the applicant is
requesting an L-O, Limited Office Zone. The L-O zone does allow for the use of
churches. That is the proposed use. With their annexation application they did -- here
is an aerial photo, just to give you a sense of the current existing conditions on the
ground. The storage unit complex, as you can see, is just down to the southwest
generally vacant existing Ag land. Here on the screen is the proposed layout for the
site. As you know, the annexation application does not require a development Site Plan
to be submitted. We have encouraged that at staff level, so that Council and Planning
and Zoning Commission have an idea of what they are requesting the annexation for.
As you can see, they have a facility located generally in the center of the property, open
areas, some parking, some storm water retention areas along the back. The Ten Mile
stub drain does also abut the property here on their east boundary. The Planning and
Zoning Commission did recommend approval of the annexation request to L-O. The
conditions there are in the recommendation for you to see. In terms of those
conditions, I think the only one I would point out is Item Number 5 that has to deal with
constructing either a temporary lift station or to participate with the developers of the
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April 1, 2003
Page 35 of 48
land that is here adjacent to the north. Mr. Doug Campbell has submitted an application
to the City of Meridian for -- for the land to the north. As you know, Mosher's Farm
Subdivision, which is just north of Pine Avenue, was annexed and approved by the city.
There are some discussions about cooperating between the church site and Mr.
Campbell's CMD Development in terms of getting the services to this church. Staff has
nothing else to add at this point.
Corrie: Thank you, Brad. Questions from staff?
Bird: I have none.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Brad, it is an L-O zone they are requesting right?
Hawkins-Clark: Correct.
Nary: Okay. The staff report says an R-8 zone.
Hawkins-Clark: Right. That is incorrect. The P&Z recommendation cleaned that up.
Nary: Okay. Great. Thank you.
Corrie: Okay. Is the applicant or representative here this evening?
Nary: Pretty confident.
Corrie: Is there anyone from the public that would like to issue testimony? Any other
questions?
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Brad, I'm looking through the Planning and Zoning minutes and stuff, I don't think
there was a whole lot of controversy on this -- on this project or anything and you have
no problems with it, as long as that temporary -- that Item Number 5 is noted. Brad, do
you have -- from Public Works have anything?
Watson: Council Member Bird, Mayor, and Council Members, no. In fact, the earlier
item that was postponed, Mosher's Farm, is related to this whole sub regional lift station
issue that we are trying to workout right now, so we are well aware of it and encourage
one lift station, rather than three little ones out there.
Meridian City Council Meeting
April 1, 2003
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Bird: And these applicants are well aware of this stipulation Number 5, because it
comes out of Planning and Zoning right? They are not getting hit between the eyes or
anything like that?
Hawkins-Clark: I would presume so.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird, why don't we -- we can do this if you like. Since the Mosher's Farm
Subdivision request for Final Plat was tabled to April 15th
, we could continue this one to
April 15th
, and ask them to come in and explain what they want to do. Then, we won't
have to do something we may have go back and do something later. Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I just don't think it's good practice to make decisions without the applicant
here. They haven't seen -- I mean they have probably seen the recommendation, but
they haven't responded on public record that they agree. I would move that we
continue this Public Hearing to April 15, 2003.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded to continue the Public Hearing, Item 18,
until April 15, 2003, and request the representative of Central Valley Baptist Church to
come to give us a little talk. Any further discussion? All those in favor of the motion say
aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Item 19. Public Hearing: AZ 02-034 Request for annexation and zoning of 5.0
acres from RUT to R-3 zones for proposed Bleak Subdivision by Kent
and Nancy Bleak – 4920 West Cherry Lane:
Item 20. Public Hearing: PFP 02-005 Request for Preliminary / Final Plat
approval of 1 building lot and 1 other lot on 5 acres in a proposed R-3
zone for proposed Bleak Subdivision by Kent and Nancy Bleak – 4920
West Cherry Lane:
Corrie: Item Number 19 and 20 is a request for annexation and zoning of five acres
from RUT to an R-3 zone for proposed Bleak Subdivision by Kent and Nancy Bleak,
4920 West Cherry Lane and also a request for Preliminary/Final Plat approval of one
building lot and one other lot on five acres in a proposed R-3 zone. At this time, I will
open the Public Hearing on Item 19 and 20 with no objection from Council and we will
hear the Public Hearing on both, Council. Staff first.
Hawkins-Clark: Yes, Mayor, Members of the Council. On Item Number 19, the request
for annexation and zoning, the property is currently zoned RUT in Ada county, 4.8
acres. The RUT zoning in Ada County has a five-acre minimum lot size, so they would
not be able to further re-subdivide their property under the current Ada County zoning,
so the only way for them to divide is to annex. They have proposed an R-3 zoning.
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April 1, 2003
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The Comprehensive Plan has a low-density residential designation, which is intended
for less than three dwelling units per acre. The Planning and Zoning Commission is
recommending approval of that annexation and zoning request to R-3. On the last item,
Item Number 20 -- no. I guess before I go onto that, the aerial photo does show you
that there is a single residence on the property at this time located here kind of at the
corner where the L makes the turn. The proposal is for that property, just over three
acres, to be split off from the property that has frontage on Black Cat Road. As you can
see, the rest of the property is vacant today. The subdivision is a Preliminary/Final Plat,
which is allowed for four lots or less. There are no public or private streets that are
proposed as a part of the plat. It's a straight two-lot subdivision. They have agreed to
provide our street landscape buffers, a 25-foot easement on Black Cat, and a 25-foot
easement on Cherry. We have requested as staff and the Planning and Zoning
Commission also supported some modifications to the plat notes. They would have a
1,500 minimum square foot house size, excluding the garage area. They would need to
revise the plat to reflect existing right-of-way issues and show any dedications in the
plat on the future there. Water would be provided. However, sewer is not available
now, so that recommendation there is to allow the septic.
Watson: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Yes, Brad.
Watson: If I could just ask for clarification from the applicant on one of the conditions
that puzzles me. I didn't write the staff report, but I had indicated to that applicant last
fall that sewer -- gravity sewer service wasn't available to either parcel or either lot. Our
recommendation said the water service to this development shall be the existing lines in
Black Cat Road. The applicant's letter that I saw here somewhere said that they would
connect when available. I just want to get clarification from him whether he realizes that
the northeasterly lot does have access to water right now and would be required to
connect to that.
Corrie: Is the testimony you are about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
the truth, so help you God?
Bleak: It is.
Corrie: Name and address, please.
Bleak: My name is Kent Bleak and I live 4920 West Cherry, Meridian.
Corrie: Okay. You want to answer his question?
Bleak: Yes. I understand that we would connect from Black Cat Road for the small
parcel and, then, from Cherry Lane -- the water would come from Cherry Lane, that
water line, that way, two different spots.
Corrie: Okay. You can testify as the applicant.
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Bleak: Okay. The only other comment I would make is on the site-specific comments,
the Final Plat. There was an error there that I guess misinterpreted my application. It
says that the pressurized irrigation system within the development will be owned and
maintained by Settler's Irrigation District. That's not correct. It would be owned and
maintained by myself living on that property or if someone else were to buy the other
property, they would maintain that pressurized system that serves the parcel of land that
it's on.
Corrie: Okay.
Bleak: And I don't have any other comments or -- just any questions you might have.
Corrie: Council, questions?
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Okay. Thank you
Bleak: Thank you.
Corrie: Anyone else from the public like to issue testimony. Yes, sir. Is the testimony
you are about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you
God?
Law: Yes.
Corrie: Name and address, please.
Law: Brent Law. My current -- where I live is 4145 North Eagle Road. I own the piece
of property, which is -- the L is going around there and it's actually -- the address there
is 4888 West Cherry Lane. I'm not opposed to what's going here, but after hearing
what we did on some of the other things tonight, I'm -- what my concern is, the
annexation of the property. If we make that all -- you know if the L piece there becomes
annexed into the city, what is that going to do to my piece of property sitting on the
corner? I realize, you know, it's going right around mine. I don't know what's going to
happen in time as far as what other developments are going to start out there, what will
come along. I just -- I'm concerned about in the future and where the services --
currently, the water is all that is available, if we start subdividing different areas out there
and start putting in homes, how many septics are going to be allowed. Because from
my understanding currently, the sewer is not available to us and there is not really an
idea of when it's going to be available. Maybe that's because I -- maybe there is plans
I'm not aware of, but I just -- you know, it just -- I don't know what -- where is that going
to put me as far as being annexed and as far as services available, you know. Because
if I were to decide to develop my place, am I going to be able to get a subdivision put in
and go two homes per acre or am I going to -- you know, where -- I'm just curious down
the road -- and I realize you can't commit to anything, but it just puts a few questions in
my mind. I didn't -- like I say, I didn't -- I don't have a problem with what Kent's doing
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here, but what my concern is is down the road where is that going to put some of the
other property? What kind of position am I, you know, going to be put in?
Corrie: Good question. Anybody have anything?
Nichols: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: Mr. Law -- over here. How big is that parcel on the corner, the one that you
own?
Law: My property was, actually, five acres, but, currently, with the way they have
changed the streets and everything, it's roughly, I believe, 4.5.
Nichols: Okay. Thank you.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I guess one of the things I'd like to ask Brad is -- one of the points Mr. Law brings
up is the compatibility of this R-3 zone with whatever he may want to do on that corner
is that corner on the land use map, is it residential or commercial?
Hawkins-Clark: Low density residential.
Nary: Low density residential? To increase up one, without having to change the map,
he could, actually, increase that to medium density residential right? Without changing
the --
Hawkins-Clark: Correct.
Nary: Which could be up to an R-8.
Hawkins-Clark: Correct.
Nary: Does that answer part of your question, at least?
Law: Well, yes, but what is the option, though, as far as -- obviously, there is -- there
wouldn't be able to -- my understanding at this point is there wouldn't be able to be
development as far as like office-type space, any type of commercial, anything,
because of no services. Is that -- without the services -- I mean doesn't that kind of
regulate what you can do and what you can't do down the road to --
Corrie: Brad. We'll get the experts here.
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Watson: Mayor and Council Members, I'll answer what I think is the question. There is
gravity sewer about 700 feet north of the Bleak property. If an urban density project or
a large commercial project came in that could -- that required extension of those
services, they would be required to do that. There are some elevation questions in that
particular area. It's a little bit of a touchy area as far as gravity sewer, but, as you know,
we are in a process of designing the regional lift station for Black Cat Trunk and this
whole area is part of that. I can't tell you today exactly, how the sewer service will get to
that, but it will. That's what we are working on right now. I don't know if it's going to
come from the north or from the south. We have surveyors out there this week, in fact,
doing work, probably over the last couple weeks.
Law: So, you have questions on it just like I do. I was just curious about it, because I --
you know, I was just -- really want to know how it's going to affect the rest of the
properties out there. What -- you know, what's going to be happening with them and I
didn't know if there was any plans yet, if there was -- you know, what the -- you know,
what you had for your Comprehensive Plan in that area, if there was any.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Maybe -- I don't know if this answers your question, too, Mr. Law. On our land
use map on the Comprehensive Plan, we believed at the time when that property would
be annexed into the city that it would be low density residential. Like Mr. Hawkins-
Clark said, that does you give you a lot of flexibility on residential development, up to
what's medium density residential, which is an R-4, which is four units per acre, or R-8,
which is eight units per acre. It gives you lots of flexibility for residential development.
It's doesn't mean you can't ask for a light office or a limited office or a commercial-type
thing that you, perhaps, by notice -- I mean there would be some work involved in doing
that. Your other question, though, was -- I think was sort of the possibility of being
annexed in relation to the sewer and the water availability right?
Law: Well, no, it's more the -- the decision you made on another piece of property was
the annexation not leaving a little chunk of property out and, in a sense, that's kind of
what's happening here -- I mean, I don't know, maybe I'm looking at it wrong, but that's
what it looks like to me. I'm trying to block out and kind of being brought in and realize it
probably would be pretty easy for me to get annexed if I applied for it, if this one is
approved going around me, and I just --
Nary: And at least this Mayor and this Council, we have not considered involuntarily
annexing people, okay? That doesn't mean that won't change, it doesn't mean that that
couldn't change, and, yes, the fact that you would be contiguous to the city could mean
you could be annexed at some point in the future. It's not very likely, but that can
certainly happen. I think it could happen now -- I'm going to guess that that property up
the street is city anyway, so since that property across Black Cat is city, if we were
going to involuntarily annex you -- or the city was going to involuntarily annex you, they
probably could do it now anyway. It wouldn't -- having this property be part of the city
isn't going to affect whether or not you can be annexed. The issue may only be
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April 1, 2003
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whether or not there is sewer service for you to develop it. If the city wanted to
involuntarily annex you, they probably could now, we just haven't done that and not
likely to really do that.
Law: But as far as the service -- yeah, because I was curious about that, also the
services I was curious as far as to their -- if you have a rough idea time frame? Is there
anything going on in that area? The last time I knew there was nothing we could get
hooked up to.
Nary: As Mr. Watson said -- I mean that's exactly what they are doing right now. He
doesn't have a question, he actually has the answer, and the answer is not yet, but not
too far in the future.
Law: Okay I found out what I wanted to know.
Corrie: Okay.
Law: I still don't know, but at least I found out.
Corrie: Now, explain it to me. No, I understand what you're saying.
Law: I got my answer.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: One thing that makes your piece different than the one we denied early was
that was all under the same ownership.
Law: Right.
De Weerd: And so because these are two separate -- separately owned parcels, it's a
different scenario, and, like Councilman Nary said, we don't force annex, so you can still
do with your property as look -- keep an eye on the conditions and the economy and the
sewer and do something with yours when you would like -- when you're ready to.
Law: Okay.
De Weerd: You know, you're a different scenario than what we had a little bit earlier.
Law: And that pretty much answers what I'm looking for.
De Weerd: Okay.
Law: Okay. Thank you.
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Corrie: Thank you, Mr. Law. Is there anyone else that would like to issue testimony?
Okay.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I just had one question for Brad Hawkins-Clark. Maybe I'm dense tonight, Brad,
looking at this, but we are looking at an R-3 designation for low density residential. It's
two lots. One house so, the density isn't going to likely increase significantly, other than
maybe one more house. How is that compatible with the zone? Why isn't this an R-2
and it would seem to be more compatible with the zone. I guess I'm a little curious
about that, but maybe I'm just not tracking that.
De Weerd: I was wondering that myself.
Hawkins-Clark: Councilman Nary, I don't think you're dense, I mean --
Nary: It wouldn't hurt my feelings if you said it. It's okay. I couldn't figure out why that
is.
Hawkins-Clark: Yes. The applicant -- I'm just going to verify that, but I believe
requested the R-3. You're correct. I mean R-2 would more adequately address the
existing proposal at just two houses, but even that it doesn't meet. Technically, it would
be, you know, an R-.5, if you were going to actually go with the existing conditions. I
think that the applicant requested the R-3, that does meet the Comp Plan, you know,
certainly it doesn't preclude them from re-subdividing somewhere down the line. I mean
that lot on the -- with the Cherry frontage has that house so far set back that they could
potentially in the future re-subdivide through a re-subdivision application, but I think the
main answer is that their application requested R-3.
Corrie: Any other questions?
Hawkins-Clark: If I could, Mayor, just also point out -- I just wanted to confirm that the
applicant is aware of the sanitary service company condition that states that a liability
release for road damages may need to be signed. Because the waste -- solid waste
company typically does not serve properties that are not either on a private street or a
public street, so they would be having to go on a private driveway and their heavy
trucks may cause damages and so they are asking for that liability release and I just --
Corrie: Kent, that is a very legitimate question. Your answer?
Bleak: Yes. In the development of the roads to come in, we have also talked to the fire
department and they wanted a road that was capable of handling a fire engine that
weighed 70,000 pounds. We will be accommodating -- the road base would be
adequate to handle that and I'm sure that would handle any other kind of garbage truck
or anything else with a fire truck going down the road.
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Corrie: Okay. Thank you. Anything else, Brad?
Hawkins-Clark: No. Thank you.
Corrie: Any other questions, Council?
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
De Weerd: No.
Corrie: I will entertain a motion either to continue or close the Public Hearing.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would move we close the Public Hearings AZ 02-034 and PFP 02-005.
De Weerd: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded to close the Public Hearing on
Item Numbers 19 and 20. Any further discussion? All those in favor say aye. Opposed
no? All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Corrie: Item Number 19 is a request for annexation and zoning.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I guess if nobody wants to jump in with a motion yet, I guess I have a -- I mean
this seems fine, except for the fact that the whole intent of having these residential
zones as they are is to create some density. This doesn't do anything. This just
annexes in their current lot and subdivides -- subdivides it enough to one other lot that
one other house could be built on it. I mean it seems to fly in the face of what the intent
of what the Comprehensive Plan is. I can't honesty -- I guess I didn't really hear them --
maybe I'm just tired, but I didn't really hear any point in doing this, other than the county
doesn't allow any further subdivision of the property. I mean this just doesn't seem to
make any sense to me in relation to what our Comprehensive Plan is. I mean I think we
spent hours and hours and hours telling people that the intent is that we are trying to
create a plan that deals with the growth of the city that deals with creating densities in
areas and this doesn't do any of it. In fact, it doesn't even create the density it’s even
proposed. I mean I just can't see any point to doing this. I guess I'm opposed to it.
Corrie: Further discussion?
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De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I guess just to respond to what Councilman Nary said, is I can understand
his concerns. Maybe I would add a concern to it, is -- does that limit what the property
on the corner can do and, no, it doesn't, but we all know how neighbors move in and if
they are going to be on these low density parcels, what their expectations of the
neighboring parcels are going to be -- but, again, I'm -- yes. I don't know. I guess
instead of you asking Brad Hawkins-Clark why he was requesting it, you should have
asked the applicant. I don't -- I don't have a problem with it, but I do understand your
concern.
Nary: Mr. Mayor? I mean if I just make one at a time. I mean know it looks silly and I
believe Council Member McCandless before said here we approved a 225 homes
subdivision tonight and now we turn down one for five and now we are tuning down one
for one, so -- but the whole intent is to create density and to create some density that
has same plan or scheme. This certainly doesn't hurt that, but it doesn't do anything. I
mean it doesn't add to anything that we have in the Comprehensive Plan. I understand
the -- I mean, honestly, I understand what, at least, the content is or what Mr. Law's
intent is here, but it doesn't really jive with our Comprehensive Plan. It just doesn't. I
guess I just can't support it. It's sort of similar to the one with the five, it just doesn't fit
with what we trying to accomplish, so --
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I guess just to end the debate, I don't mind this and I agree that you need to
have a Comprehensive Plan and I guess we did try to define what low density meant.
This is the epitome. I would love to find in the city limits this size of lots. I would move
that we approve the request for annexation of five acres from RUT to R-3 zones for the
proposed Bleak Subdivision and ask the attorney to draw up Findings of Facts and
Conclusions of Law and Decision of Order.
Bird: I would second that.
Corrie: Okay.
De Weerd: And include staff comments or P&Z recommendations.
Corrie: Are you all through, now? Okay. Motion has been made to approve the
request for annexation and zoning, Item Number 19. Any further discussion? Okay.
Hearing none, roll call vote, Mr. Berg.
Roll call: McCandless, naye; Nary, naye; de Weerd, aye; Bird, aye.
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Corrie: Well, I hate to say that a person can't do something with his own land.
However, if you look at that, we spent an awful lot of time in the Comprehensive Plan in
this whole area, spent a lot of time on it. I think it doesn't really make that much sense
to just have an R-3 and, then, next to it is going to be -- we don't know yet. Mr. Law
hasn't given us an education yet on what he's going to do with that parcel. I have a
mixed feeling about what somebody can do with their land, but that's part of the
government that people have elected us to do. Not very often do I get to vote like this,
but I would like to see that a little bit different than what it is, too. I'm going to have to
go with the nayes, Mr. Nary and Mrs. McCandless. It in hopes that the applicant can
come back and if they want to do something different and, then -- it's a very difficult
decision to make, really, because that's what you want to do, but, yet, what people
around us have come and did the Comprehensive Plan, what they wanted to see in this
area. At this point I guess I'm going to vote nay at this time and I hope that you can
take another look at that and see if we can't do something there. With the, vote is nay
and the request for annexation and zoning is denied.
MOTION FAILED: TWO AYES, TWO NAYES
TIEBREAKER VOTE: ONE NAYE
Nichols: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Yes.
Nichols: Point of order. The motion to annex and zone failed, so we will need another
motion.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I would move -- I'm sorry. I'd move to deny AZ 02-034, the request for
annexation and zoning of 5.0 acres from RUT to an R-3 zone for the proposed Bleak
Subdivision by Kent and Nancy Bleak, 4920 West Cherry Lane, pursuant to the
discussion tonight, the denial is based upon the incompatibility with the Comprehensive
Plan for the zone that's being requested. That the development -- the development that
is being proposed with it, pursuant to -- I guess all the remainder of the comments that
were made tonight and for the Council to prepare Findings of Facts and Conclusions of
Law and Decision and Order for denial.
McCandless: Second.
Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded. Any further discussion?
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
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De Weerd: Just to, again, make my thing of having housing choices in the city and this
is just five acres, folks, and it's not like a 40 acre thing in the middle of -- but I know we
all know how we are voting, so let's get on with it.
Corrie: Okay. Mr. Berg, we can get on with it.
Roll call: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye, de Weerd, naye; Bird, naye.
Corrie: Help me along here, counselor. Do I do the naye again myself? Do we go
through it again or what is the deal? See if you're listening.
Nichols: Mr. Mayor, you are --
Corrie: So I can vote aye and it's --
Nichols: Mr. Mayor, if you vote yes, the property is not annexed. If you no, then, we
need another motion.
Corrie: And as Mr. Bird said, you can vote aye and I do vote aye.
MOTION CARRIED: TWO AYES, TWO NAYES
TIEBREAKER VOTE: ONE AYE
Corrie: Okay. Item 20 is a request for Preliminary/Final Plat.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I would move to deny PFP 02-005, the request for preliminary and Final Plat
approval of one building lot and one other lot on five acres in a proposed R-3 zone for
the proposed Bleak Subdivision by Kent and Nancy Bleak at 4920 West Cherry Lane,
pursuant -- or the denial is based upon the fact that the annexation and zoning is
denied as. For Counsel to prepare Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and
Decision of Order.
McCandless: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Any further discussion? Roll call vote, Mr. Berg.
Roll call: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; de Weerd, naye; Bird, naye.
Corrie: Okay. Breaking the tie, I vote aye.
MOTION CARRIED: TWO AYES, TWO NAYES
TIEBREAKER VOTE: ONE AYE
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De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I guess this poses a question, is this gentleman has a house in the middle
of this acreage, so what our Comp Plan is telling him is unless we want him to build a
whole bunch of houses around his house, he can't do anything with his land.
Nary: No.
Corrie: I wouldn't necessarily say that. Go ahead, Mr. Nary.
Nary: Mr. Mayor. No, he's got -- he certainly can ask to be annexed, he can ask to
rezone it, he can ask to do something -- and he can ask to do something else. He’s
already going to divide into a different piece. I mean I don't think -- it doesn't impact him
in a negative way if he isn't annexed right now. It's not an emergency situation that his
septic system is failing. We don't have sewer there anyway, so it doesn't matter. I
mean I don't -- I guess I still think he has certainly options, but, yes, if he wants to
develop the land, what we have said is low density residential. Like I said, my one
concern is that what we would be doing is locking this land into a single-family home
and that isn't what was intended by the Comprehensive Plan. I agree with you it is a
low density -- it could not be lower, unless it was grassy field, but it isn't -- it isn't really
compatible with what the Comprehensive was set up for.
Corrie: Any other questions?
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Okay. Then, that being said, that ends our City Council Meeting for tonight. I'll
entertain a motion to close the meeting.
McCandless: Mr. Mayor, I move we adjourn.
Nary: Second.
Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded to adjourn. All those in favor say aye.
Opposed no. All ayes. Motion is carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:36 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
APPROVED:
/ /
Meridian City Council Meeting
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ROBERT D. CORRIE, MAYOR DATE
ATTESTED:
WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., CITY CLERK