HomeMy WebLinkAbout2002 05-01 Comp PlanMeridian City Council Meeting May 1,
2002
The special meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:30 P.M.
on Wednesday, May 1, 2002, by Mayor Robert D. Corrie.
Members Present: Mayor Robert Corrie, Tammy de Weerd, Keith Bird, Bill Nary,
Cherie McCandless.
Others Present: Brad Hawkins-Clark, Steve Siddoway and Will Berg.
Item 1. Roll-call Attendance:
X Tammy de Weerd X Bill Nary
X Cherie McCandless X Keith Bird
X Mayor Robert Corrie
Corrie: I will open the City Council special meeting, Wednesday, May the 1st
,
2002, at 6:38 p.m. in the City Council Chambers. We will start with the roll call
attendance, please Mr. Berg.
Item 2. Adoption of the Agenda:
Corrie: The second item on the agenda is the adoption of the agenda, which is
the continued Public Hearing from March 20, 2002 on the proposed amendment
to the Comprehensive Plan for the City of Meridian.
McCandless: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mrs. McCandless.
McCandless: I move we approve the agenda.
Nary: Second.
Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded to approve the printed agenda.
Any further discussion? All those in favor in say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Item 3. Continued Public Hearing from March 20, 2002: Proposed
Amendment to the Comprehensive Plan for the City of
Meridian:
City Council Special Meeting
May 1, 2002
Page 2 of 25
Corrie: At this time I will open the continued Public Hearing and we will start with
staff and then we will go to the public.
Siddoway: Can you hear me now? Okay. Thank you Mayor. We do have a
revised land use map that should reflect the changes that were suggested by the
Council through the series of workshops done in April. I would just like to point
out some of the highlights for you. I am not going to go change by change, but I
do want to point out a few things. First you will notice the colors have changed,
as Bill Nary pointed out just a little bit before the meeting. I tried to respond to
the concern that the colors were too muted and difficult to tell apart, so we have
hopefully fixed that. If there are other colors that you don’t like or need – Shari
says we are probably changing some of the mixed-use colors. If there are any
other colors you feel need to be changed, we can push them however you want
to – brighter, darker, whatever. The second thing I would point out are the notes
that are new to the map in the bottom right hand corner. The first one basically
says the dots float. And the Council wanted to note that directly on the map, so
specifically with parks and schools we don’t run into future problems with citizens
concerned that a park wasn’t built right where one of the dots were. The second
note states that in the residential areas that other densities will be considered
without a comp plan amendment being required. But that it can only be changed
one step, as in low to medium or medium to high, not low to high. I guess it can
go the other way too, medium to low, but we wouldn’t go high to low. There are
two changes on this map that were not specifically discussed. They are fairly
minor but I feel like I need point them out because it didn’t come out of the
meeting per se. One is that we combine the low and very low density residential
into just low, given the fact that we were saying that we were going to consider
other densities and the fact that there didn’t seem to be a lot of support for
forcing certain areas to be less than two units per acre. We just have simply
designated low, medium and high. The second change is we used to have
existing schools and existing parks broken out separately from public and quasi-
public uses, which conflicted when we went through the text, with the definition,
which we were saying that the public and quasi-public color included existing
parks and schools. So we basically combined those existing public uses into the
public and quasi-public color. They are still designated with the symbol in the
case of schools. I think that should clarify that. We did go through point by point
on the items that were recommended to be changed by the Council during the
previous workshops. I did go through them. Brad then proofed it and we feel like
we have them all. But if there is something still missing, please let me know.
Other than that, I guess I will stand for any questions about the map. I would
point out that Brad will be here shortly – here he is. There we have Brad. He has
feverishly working on the text and has prepared something to summarize the text
changes. He is going to make copies of that to hand out to you. I guess for now,
do you have any questions about the map?
Nary: Mr. Mayor.
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May 1, 2002
Page 3 of 25
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I would be happy to commend you on the record that I really like the color
scheme and the differentiation, because it is easier to read than it was, so I really
do appreciate you making those changes. I guess the only thing I would make
note of and it is something against even the radar screen that doesn’t have
anything to do with the map anymore, when we did discuss that property at the
corner of Ustick and Eagle, that we were willing to exchange at some point, that
it is not on here any longer?
Siddoway: Yes.
Nary: So we need to make sure we keep – this doesn’t change our area of
impact by itself, we still have to do that process. So we want to make sure we
continue with that process and not forget about it.
Siddoway: Right, to actually take it off.
Nary: Not to forget about it, but do all that stuff to make sure this map is
accurate.
Siddoway: The same is actually true down south where we amended the area of
impact to come in around the subdivision that is already being divided –
Muirwoods?
Nary: Like I said, I just wanted to make note that we make sure we finish that
process so that the map is actually accurate once we get this done.
Siddoway: Just across Eagle Road, there is also that piece that we are showing
added to our area of impact that has not yet formally been added, but it has been
approved and is going through the process right now.
Corrie: There is another area, too, up on the northeast corner, that little strip –
Siddoway: That is what Shari is pointing out to me – Ramon Yorgeson’s piece
has also been approved to be taken out of our area of impact and we will need to
reflect that so, there is even one other area where I saw it is splitting though
some properties and we may want to look at and clean it up all at once, but we
will track that.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mrs. De Weerd.
De Weerd: I guess I don’t like the change of the low and very low. I think one of
the main reasons we allowed the one step in density is to cover some of that.
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May 1, 2002
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Now you have taken that area that was very low and they can step it up to
medium. I guess it kind of defeats the purpose of those few areas that were
designated as the very low.
Siddoway: Most of the areas – we can change it however you want, but my
response would be that most of the areas that were designated as very low were
areas that were already existing in that density range and I wouldn’t necessarily
see them changing anyway. The one big exception to that is the strip along
Chinden Boulevard from Ten Mile to Meridian. That was very low and now shows
up as low.
De Weerd: And now it could be medium.
Siddoway: What is that?
De Weerd: Which means now it could be medium, with how we set it up.
Siddoway: That is correct. If the Council chooses. It doesn’t say they are
guaranteed. But it says the Council can consider others without requiring a comp
plan amendment. It doesn’t necessarily mean it is just a given.
De Weerd: It is just hard to be consistent. If you do one and you don’t do the
other, then you have nothing to fall back on as to why.
Siddoway: Yes, there should be a reason if its not granted. Or maybe there
should be a reason if it is granted. To resolve this, do you want to have some
discussion and direct me one way or the other? I will change it however the
Council wants.
De Weerd: My preference would be to keep the very low.
Corrie: I don’t think it makes that much difference personally. Now we have two
different opinions. The Council is going to make that decision anyway.
Nary: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Yes Mr. Nary.
Nary: I guess I don’t have a big heartburn with the three. Only because I think
one of the areas of discussion that we have had is that we are also trying to
recognize that people are going to build what the market is going to bear. The
market – there are, looking at this other maps, the one approved by the Planning
and Zoning Commission, the very low areas appear to be the strip along
Chinden, and the southwest corner that is near the interstate, McDermott Road
area. Is that correct? And some pockets a bit further south as we go. I think the
rest is low, is that right?
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May 1, 2002
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Siddoway: Yes. It basically reflects existing conditions.
Nary: I guess because, as Steve said, we don’t have to approve that. We are
going to be looking at the project. We simply allow the mechanism to increase
them without having to have a map amendment every time. It doesn’t necessarily
grant an approval. I guess I am not that concerned that that – especially that strip
along Chinden, just because we change from four designations to three – the
first thing someone is going to do is bring in a medium density residential project.
We don’t have to approve it. We don’t have to even annex it. I think that just
giving that flexibility isn't that risky. I could be wrong, but its just doesn’t seem
that significantly risky to do that.
Siddoway: One other observation, if we were to provide that much of a break
down on the low end and we wanted to regulate it that tightly, we would probably
want to do the same with the high end. Have a high and a very high. Which in my
mind would be an R-15 and an R-40. But we haven't done that on the high end.
High is basically more than eight. So it seemed to make sense to simplify it.
Nary: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Steve, also, to follow up on that, this is just a map. We have to have an
ordinance that defines what those things are. What low density means, what high
density means and medium density too. We can use the ordinance to define
those. We could certainly have the low density be less than an R-8 if we want it
to be. We can make the medium density the R-8’s or R-15’s and make the high
density the R-40. We have the flexibility on that end without having to do it on the
map and still have just three categories so we don’t have very low and very
medium and extremely high and have it even more confusing. Isn't that right?
Can’t we simply do it that way?
Siddoway: I wasn’t – I didn’t come up with the low and very low on my own, it
came out of the committee –
Nary: Avoid that, yeah –
Siddoway: No, I am just saying – I am guessing at what the intent was – my
guess of the intent came out of the fact we have existing R-2 and R-3 zones that
are less dense than R-4. That seemed to be reflecting those zoning
designations which are currently used very little. But we didn’t do that on the
high end for the R-15 and R-40. But you are right, it boils down to the zoning
code that backs it up.
City Council Special Meeting
May 1, 2002
Page 6 of 25
Corrie: Any other comments? Brad – I am sorry, I called Steve Brad – Brad, do
you want to go over what you handed us just now?
Hawkins-Clark: Thank you, Mr. Mayor and members of the Council. I don’t know
that there is much of a need to go into detail. Most of this is just a summary of
the April 3rd
special meeting and the April 17th
special meeting. Most of it is the
April 3rd
where we went over about 15 redlined pages of the plan. I mainly tried to
reflect here for your ease of reference, what you decided to do with each of the
fifteen redlined areas. Some of them are grammatical in nature – not
grammatical other than the first one, but they are additions. There are two I
would point out. On the second page, number twelve, that is in the land use
chapter, page seven. As you recall at the April 17th
meeting we did discuss this
new Waste Water Treatment Plant designation for the mixed-use. I wanted to
point out that these are the six areas that were talked about at that meeting that
would fall into that sort of orange colored area on the map. That is basically all
the parcels abutting the Waste Water Treatment Plant. So we talked about light
professional offices uses. Flex space uses like your light warehousing, sort of
minimal distribution type facilities. No new residential uses would be permitted
other than what is existing. Limited small scale retail business park type uses
and mini storage. Those six fall within that new mixed-use / Waste Water
Treatment Plant designation. Then we would add that clause that unless
otherwise permitted by city adopted incentives, all developments within this
designated area will require approval through the Conditional Use Permit
process. So it leaves the door open that should there be a – should the city want
to add some incentives that would be a bit more specific in the future to avoid
Conditional Use Permits, we could certainly do that. So I want to point that one
out. The one below that, number thirteen, has to do with those mixed-use
regional classifications on the map which is the more brown, rust color. The
Council decided to not require Conditional Use Permit applications in those
areas, unless the building or structural portion lies within three hundred feet of a
school or residence.
De Weerd: Excuse me, Brad.
Hawkins-Clark: Yes?
De Weerd: On that last sentence, between residence and school, put or instead
of. It is just small little thing but, boy, we were talking about it.
Hawkins-Clark: Right. I guess there were twenty-one items in total that were text
changes that we talked about on April 3rd
. The city attorney Bill Nichols did
suggest that number eighteen, regarding amending City area of impact
agreements to require Meridian land use ordinances to be adopted within the
area of impact but outside city limits. That would be an action step that was new
that Bill suggested some wording on there. Jump down to the bottom there, the
other modifications there. Then on page three, there is just one of these
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May 1, 2002
Page 7 of 25
attached but there are a couple that SAIC, which is the contracted firm that we
had, they are basically updating since the first draft of this was prepared in
March or June 2000, a lot of these figures are just being updated to reflect the
two year span and try to get us up to date. Census work is also being worked
on, Shari and Dave have been working on that. We do have someone from
Idaho State University providing some figures and Dale Rosebrach with
Intermountain Demographics is also adding. But again those are things that are
not necessarily going to be policy or decision items, they are just reflecting
updates since the first draft was prepared.
Nary: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Brad, on this map that is attached, there are two things, it should say
Meridian Settlers Park at Ustick and Meridian. Secondarily, is there a reason that
it is just a portion of the area of impact and not the whole area?
Hawkins-Clark: Councilman Nary, the main reason for this was to reflect the
majority of the existing public facilities of existing public facilities rather than
taking a stab at where any future ones might be. We thought it might be a
helpful diagram. It’s a diagram mainly that could be used by the Chamber, or
others to hand out – kind of a generic, this is where our facilities are at, but we
can certainly expand it.
Nary: I was just curious on the reason – that is perfectly fine. Thank you.
Hawkins-Clark: Unless you feel the need for me to go through each one
individually, I think that is the main goal here, to represent the few things that are
outstanding and then to summarize what you had decided at the last two special
meetings.
Corrie: Council, do you have any other questions of staff? Since this is a
continued Public Hearing, I have opened that public hearing -- where is Will?
Siddoway: He went to make a copy.
Corrie: We have three letters that will be entered into the record. One is from a
Margaret F. Reed and the other is a Katie Scharf from Wisconsin, reference to a
piece of property on Franklin Road between Cloverdale and Eagle Road that
they are asking to stay light industrial that to high density residential. Which,
looking at the land use map we didn’t change it at all. Its still industrial but we will
still enter that into the record. Is it here, it is, okay.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
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May 1, 2002
Page 8 of 25
Corrie: Mrs. De Weerd.
De Weerd: The property they are referring to and then the property to the west
of that, I was looking at this map, and I like the mixed-use regional. If we just had
it on both sides, I think it would allow more flexibility on mixing some uses there
to achieve your goal of some residential mixed in with some business uses.
Corrie: We can take a look at that and see where we are. Did you have one
Keith?
Bird: Mr. Mayor, we had one that was attached to our agenda from a Sherri
Moro and a Daniel Whitted. That was regarding the corner of – the northwest
corner of Ustick and Ten Mile. It was just stating that they would support low
density residential but we have taken any residential out around the Waste Water
Treatment Plant unless it is existing right now. So lets enter than into the record.
Corrie: You have this one. We have land use map, people who would like to
talk, on the sign in sheet, between I-84 and Ustick Road. We have Paul Clayton,
Dave Fuller and Theresa Ellis and Terry Ellis. Paul? Is the testimony you are
about to give the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you
God?
Clayton: I do.
Corrie: Thank you, name and address please.
Clayton: My name is Paul Clayton. 501 N. Eagle Road, Meridian Idaho. I came
yesterday to ask about the request that we made to have the property, the eight
hundred five foot of frontage to a commercial zone rather than a mixed zone. I
was here the last time and was told to come back tonight and I could find out.
Bird: That is mixed-use regional, isn't it?
Corrie: It shows mixed-use regional.
Clayton: We wanted commercial use, because if we have mixed-use, we have to
have two hearings every time we build a new building. We want to use the whole
property as one commercial zone, six hundred feet deep, eight hundred five feet
wide.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mrs. De Weerd.
De Weerd: I believe we also added a policy that amended the regional mixed-
use classification to not require a Conditional Use Permit unless the building
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May 1, 2002
Page 9 of 25
structural portion lies within three hundred of an existing residence or school. So
that should take care of that piece of property that you are referring to – that it
would not require a Conditional Use Permit.
Clayton: That is what we are trying to avoid – so we can build one unit as the
whole piece of property.
Corrie: You would not have to go through that.
Bird: You would not have to go through that with this –
Clayton: Thank you.
Corrie: Dave Fuller. Is the testimony you are about to give the truth, the whole
truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Fuller: Yes. Dave Fuller, 890 N. Ten Mile. I signed up for another one too, Mr.
Mayor, but I would just do them both while I am here. On the highway there on
Ten Mile, I have been to a few workshops and see how they have it in the plan to
put a five lane down Black Cat and spur it off to McDermott and Ten Mile for the
off ramps and on ramps to the freeway. As I have been looking down the Black
Cat and Cherry Lane area, where I live on Ten Mile, I really urge the City Council
and Mayor and planners to at least – if they are going to leave Ten Mile a three
lane, at least take it from Cherry Lane to the freeway as five lanes, as its already
started off of Cherry Lane there by Albertsons. For the simple fact that they are
all going to funnel down that way anyway and I cant see any reason to leave it
narrow from that short stretch. It’s a one mile stretch. Right now I see them
putting in power poles for future widening. Maybe you can give me a little insight
back, if you think that is a good idea or a bad idea for that one mile stretch from
Cherry to Franklin down Ten Mile, because there is a tremendous amount of
traffic – everything you build north of there is going to funnel down there big time.
I don’t believe they will jog to the west to catch Black Cat. Do you have any input
back on that that you can give me?
Corrie: I don’t know, I think it is still up in the air if Ten Mile is going to be five
lanes all the way or not. ACHD is still not sure either. But I –
Fuller: You follow what I am talking about there, that one mile stretch there that
is already into a five lane started??
Corrie: Yes. They are setting those poles? I haven't paid that much attention.
Fuller: It looks like the poles are, but the workshops I have been to, they are
talking three lane down Ten Mile.
Corrie: All the way to I-84?
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May 1, 2002
Page 10 of 25
Fuller: To Franklin at least. That is why I wanted some input from Cherry to
Franklin, you have all those homes that are going to be online soon, and they are
building more all the time. I don’t believe they will drive that further mile west to
Black Cat and jog back. It would be a two mile jog for them.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mrs. De Weerd.
De Weerd: I believe the concept is to have a loop around your community with
the least impact. So as many trips as you can divert to Black Cat where you have
your five lanes, its more appropriate seated there. It is also an issue of starting a
five lane coming off a three lane and the right-of-way preservation in those areas.
So I think those were more when they were looking at the north Meridian
planning area. Those were different considerations they put into how to line up
these roads.
Fuller: I am familiar with that. In our planning, just for the inside part of the city, I
would think that the five lane for that one mile stretch between Cherry and – from
one five lane to another five lane don’t have a three lane in between. Connect
them with a five lane. Follow what I am getting at there? Cherry is a five lane
now and its already started as a five lane now, past Albertsons and then necks
down. If it wasn’t a five lane started already, or I wouldn’t be talking about it, but
its already a started five lane. Then on to the next issue, think about that one for
a while. For the City Council to have input, I think that would be a logical solution
to the bottleneck there.
Corrie: I think we have talked to ACHD and recommended a five lane, but
whatever they are going to do, they do. They are listening a little better now.
Fuller: I wanted to thank the City Council and staff, at the last meeting I came to,
I requested an upgrade from mixed-use neighborhood to the mixed-use
community and I see that you have given my parcel of ground that upgrade, so I
wanted to thank you for working with me on that. I appreciate it. Good night.
Corrie: We will find out what is going on there, Dave. They are going through a
metamorphosis change after this last legislature, they are listening to us a bit
more. Theresa Ellis. Is the testimony you are about to give the truth, the whole
truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Ellis: Yes, Mr. Mayor, I am here to ask you about –
Corrie: Can I have your name and address please?
City Council Special Meeting
May 1, 2002
Page 11 of 25
Ellis: Excuse me. Theresa Ellis, 4260 E. Franklin Road in Meridian. We as a
group here, the neighbors, have received a letter from Mr. Van Auker, talking
about the zoning change that he – you are asking for our area. So I have written
my letter, instead of sending it like the other ladies did. I have lived on five acres
on Franklin Road for thirty years and watched the farmland progress to
commercial or industrial. I have also seen the traffic that is already congesting
Franklin Road and we have yet to see what will happen when Touchmark is
finished. I do not see how high density residential in my area would be of any
benefit. Right now the north side of Franklin Road is industrial or commercial
from Orchard Street in Boise to Linder in Meridian. I feel that if our property is to
be rezoned, that the sixty acres west of us, of this which is zoned light industrial,
should also be changed. That goes up to RC Willey. It goes from our property
that they are talking about, the acreages there, to RC Willey. They are getting to
keep that. I know that that belongs to Mr. Van Auker. I was thinking that if they
would take that, that is close to one hundred acres, that the City of Meridian, if
they did zone it high density residential, they would have close to one hundred
acres. Otherwise you are asking for maybe thirty acres between our properties
we have here. Also, if this should be rezone to high density residential, does this
give us the right to subdivide our properties for residential properties? And also
does this lower our property taxes?
Corrie: Any one want to take that?
Nary: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Is the current zoning of your property agricultural?
Ellis: No, its – in the letter from Mr. Van Auker it says –
Nary: Today, is your tax rate based on it being agricultural property?
Ellis: No, it is residential apparently.
Nary: I don’t know if it is going to change or not.
Ellis: My son who is supposed to speak too, checked with Ada County, and they
said it is RUI.
Nary: I think on the original map that was passed by the Planning and Zoning
Commission in December of 2001, I don’t think the zoning is any different than
what you are looking at today. It was high density residential then as well. Is that
right? It hasn’t changed.
Corrie: Steve, can you help us on that?
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May 1, 2002
Page 12 of 25
Siddoway: Mr. Mayor, members of the Council, the land use map does not
change the zoning. We are not rezoning your property. What we are doing is
showing a future land use we would expect upon the time that you decide to
annex into the city, and give it a city zone. Currently you are in the County and
you are zoned RUT, which is rural urban transition. We are not going to change
that. It stays RUT after this is done. The uses you currently have are still
permitted through the county as they have been. When you decide to sell or if
you decide to develop it yourself, in order to develop at an urban density and
subdivide, you would have to annex to the city, give up your well and septic and
connect to city water and sewer. Upon annexation, we would expect based on
the map, we would look at the land use map and say, well she should be
requesting one of our high density residential zones. That would be initiated by
you. Once that is done, then you would have the ability to subdivide. But we are
not changing your current zoning and we are not affecting anything you have
today. We are just affecting what you would do in the future if you annex to the
city.
Ellis: Okay, we did not understand, when it says here, that your property, the
land use designation of your property from light industrial to high density
residential, is what he has written in the letter we have received.
Siddoway: The current, the 1993 Comprehensive Plan does show your property
as future industrial.
Ellis: That is future.
Siddoway: Yes, its not current. It is currently just RUT as a county zone.
Corrie: When I read those two letters, it was the same thing. We are not zoning
differently.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mrs. De Weerd.
De Weerd: But what needs to be clear, Mrs. Ellis, is if you wanted to develop
your property, under the 1993 plan you could have gone to an industrial use.
Under this update, you can go to a multi-family use or a high residential use
rather than the industrial use. That is the difference there. It doesn’t change what
you currently have. It does change the potential of what you can do.
Nary: You have to come up here –
Corrie: You have to come up here ma’am, to get that on the record, I am sorry.
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May 1, 2002
Page 13 of 25
De Weerd: I just wanted to make sure you understood that.
Nary: Mr. Mayor, while Mrs. Ellis is walking up – also, if you heard some of the
earlier discussion, you would have the capability of developing your property at
medium density residential without changing this map. You can also ask to
develop your property as something else. The difference would be, is that would
require us to change the map, there is a lot of Public Hearing and discussion
about that. We can then make the decision on whether or not to do that. All we
are doing in determining what future land use we think is most appropriate for
that area is saying, you can do that without us changing this map around. You
can ask for something else and we can change it, but that is a different process
to get to. We are just saying that at this point, that area in the future will either be
high density residential or it will be medium density residential without us
changing anything else.
Ellis: It just seems strange with living in that area. There is like thirty acres like I
said. There are six, five acre lots. Behind is the school, Louis and Clark Middle
School. There are all of these buildings, industrial areas right behind us. There
are industrial areas on both sides of us. Mr. Van Auker has that acreage between
us and RC Willey zoned as commercial. I don’t understand why they even think
they can put – with Touchmark across the street, all of those buildings that will be
there, will be right down to this area. There is going to have to be at least three
roads that come out to Franklin, how its going to carry all that traffic. If they try to
put – we did high density in there.
Nary: Mrs. Ellis, one of the things we are looking at, is because it is adjacent to
the school, it is fairly near the freeway. That Touchmark is trying to market to a
certain type of customer, we felt that might be an opportunity for someone who
wanted to build high density residential that is actually compatible with
Touchmark. But maybe to a different clientele. It is also on the rail line, if that
were to become a light rail usage, that is not an uncommon type of development,
near a light rail transit station, would be high density residential. So we are kind
of guessing a bit as to what we think future uses might be, but that is the
rationale that we discussed in our workshops as to why we would leave that as
high density residential with some other project that they think is a better use for
that property.
Corrie: Terry? Is the testimony you are about to give the truth, the whole truth
and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Name and address please.
Ellis: Terry Ellis, 4811 Cochina, representing the property as a real estate agent
for my mother, 4260 E. Franklin Road. This letter that was given to her and the
other people from Mr. Van Auker, I think was deceiving. I think that is what has
caused a lot of this conflict here, by the map he gave us, that he was saying,
going from light industrial to a high density has caused a lot of confusion with the
parties here, and I think that is what a lot of this issue is about. I think what is
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May 1, 2002
Page 14 of 25
going on here is, too bad Mr. Van Auker isn't here to defend himself because I
would like to know his answer, it seems he is putting a scare tactic into these
people as far as wanting to buy their properties. We wanted to come in and find
out what your side of the story was on these properties. According to the map, it
is shown on here as a high density, but it is the only piece of property from Boise
clear into, like we said up to Black Cat Road. It is understanding why, all the
properties he bought, he has turned into industrial or commercial. So that is all I
wanted to do, is clarify what this is all about. We were just looking for answers to
see what this was all about. I would be interested in knowing what high density
you are talking about with residential there, that would be nice to know the
definition on that.
Corrie: High density can be anything from apartment houses to high density
condos – many of those things can be done there. Like we said, it is kind of a
crystal ball. If they preserve that rail for bus line and rail, that attracts people who
don’t want to take a car to work. That makes a lot of sense. They have high
density and it can be used there. I, too, have a call in to explain why that letter
went out the way it did. I think they know better, but we won’t second guess
them.
Ellis: I appreciate that. These people do have the option to also have the
opportunity to put in an application to turn this into commercial property if they
want?
Corrie: That is true, they can do anything they want, its their property. You bet.
Thank you Terry.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mrs. De Weerd.
De Weerd: I didn’t see the letter that Mr. Van Auker wrote, but it is changing the
potential of what you can do without a map change. It does change it from
industrial to multi-family. Its not a zoning like Councilman Nary mentioned, but it
is a change from the 1993 map that is being recommended. So deceiving or not,
and I don’t know how he phrased it to you, but it is a change. So if that muddies
it or clears it up, there is a change and multi-family. Like the mayor had said, it
can be anywhere from an R-15, where you can get 4-plexes, duplexes, to three
story apartment buildings, you know (***end of Side One***) forty people per
acre, so there is a great range there of what you can do, in a high density
residential.
Corrie: We have Mr. Charles Crane between Ustick Road and Chinden
Boulevard and you have three minutes on that one and you have another you
have signed in for, transit, frontage roads, highway landscape buffers, collectors
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May 1, 2002
Page 15 of 25
and bike lanes, correct? Is the testimony you are about to give the truth, the
whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Crane: Yes.
Corrie: Name and address please.
Crane: Charles Crane 3610 W. Ustick Road. I noticed on the new map that it
has gotten a little larger around the sewer treatment plant. For example, my
property is included in the new zone going down Ten Mile where it used to follow
Nine Mile Creek. I think that might be at one of the requests of the property
owners that she didn’t want her property split. Also I noticed the top right corner
where some people asked for their residential area to stay residential, is also
included in this mixed-use waste treatment plant zone. I did have a concern for
my neighbors that they are building a house at the moment, and their sewer may
be one of the situations where they may want to join the city. What situation are
they going to be in if they want to finish building their house and they have to join
the city to get the sewer in? Is this going to put them into a bind if this – one of
the recommendations I heard was no new residential in this area. They have a
new residence they are trying to build. Is this going to put them in a real bad fix if
they include their residential area if they want to join the city to get water or
sewer. I am concerned what that is going to do to them.
Corrie: Sounds legal to be, but I wouldn’t think they would have any trouble at all
getting in the new residence if they have started it already.
Crane: They have the garage built. They haven't started on the house. That top
right corner, they had asked for residential, if they wanted to join the city, and
they wanted to join as R-1 or R-5 or something, would that preclude their joining
the city as residential because of the zoning or that map? Would that put them
out of compliance?
Corrie: No. Quick answer. Brad, I wouldn’t think so , would it? It shouldn’t.
Hawkins-Clark: We are talking about the house under construction – its already
received a building permit, correct?
Crane: I don’t know, they haven't started the house, they built the garage. They
have to sell their old doublewide and they are starting on the house. It is a
finance thing. They have to sell that first. I don’t know if they have their building
permit, they just have the garage now.
Hawkins-Clark: Without going into similar details, it is hard to say. But if a
building permit has been issued under Ada County code, they are going to allow
that to continue.
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May 1, 2002
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Crane: What I am wondering, is this map going to restrict people tightly or – the
map you have the thing you can go up or down one level. One level from the
waste treatment zone going to be industrial?
Nary: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: If you look at the note Mr. Crane, it only applies to residential areas, it
doesn’t apply to commercial. That one step up or down doesn’t have a – isn't
anything in the commercial zone. So there isn't a commercial to industrial or
industrial to mixed-use, there isn't any of that. So it is just for the residential
areas.
Crane: I guess my request is, make sure there is some out for people who have
homes there, that they can continue having homes and lives and try to get an
ordinance in effect.
Siddoway: Mr. Mayor, maybe I can shed a little light. I feel like I remember than
discussion well. What was discussed was, we did have the request for low or
very low density residential to reflect the existing conditions, but the discussion
was, what if one of those residences in the future decides they want to convert to
an office or something, which we would frankly rather have there. But our
Comprehensive Plan is in the way. They have to change the Comprehensive
Plan from residential to be allowed to go to an office or light industrial use. So
why not show what we have, put in the definition of that zone, that it allows for
existing residential to remain. We are just not wanting to expand. If something
has been issued a building permit, it would be allowed to remain. If it was issued
from Ada County, it would be allowed to remain upon annexation. I think we
agreed that we want to make that clear, that the existing residences are not
being driven out. They are allowed to remain, we just don’t want to have those
residential uses expanded, subdivided, things like that. We also don’t want to
have the comp plan map in the way of future redevelopment either. So it’s a
mixed-use category that allows existing residences to stay and to convert to the
uses of office, light industrial, flex, warehousing space that Brad talked about
earlier.
Nary: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: And maybe this too, Mr. Crane. Steve, or Mr. Nichols, correct me if I am
wrong. We are talking about a residential use, not the residential structure. They
already live there on the property, correct?
Crane: Yes.
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May 1, 2002
Page 17 of 25
Nary: Just because they are changing the structure, they may not be changing
their use. They already have a residential use, which they do because they live
there. They are simply changing the building and not expanding the building or
not significantly, they may be building a bigger house than the one they are living
in now. They are not changing the use or expanding the use. It won’t change for
them. Its not meant to say you can’t change the structure ever. You can’t
change the use of that property. Is that correct Steve? That was the intent.
Siddoway: Single family house can stay a single family house. We would not
want it to be come a duplex or a 4-plex or four separate lots or anything else.
Nary: So changing their house is not going to make any difference. This is the
mixed-use Waste Water Treatment Plant zone area. It shouldn’t make any
difference.
Crane: The other thing I signed up for, the transportation, the bike lanes.
Personally they scare me. I don’t want my kids anywhere near the roads. The
idea is to get him as far away from that as possible. And me too. I don’t like
being in car traffic. I would recommend that any monies considered for bike
lanes be put into the pathway system and we make the pathway system in this
town the bike lanes. Thank you.
Corrie: I sort of agree with you. You will have to talk to ACHD, we don’t have
street privileges yet. Who knows, the legislature may change. It is probably a
good thing to talk to them, and I would like to have some of that money go into
pathways too.
Bird: I will second that. If Charles can get it done, we will be up there to help
you.
Nary: Those five Commissioners meet on Monday, by the way, in Garden City.
Bird: Tell them to take their bike lane money and give it to the City of Meridian
for pathways.
Corrie: There will be a few that won’t agree with that, but okay. Thank you
Charles. Is there anyone else from the public who would like to issue testimony
tonight? Yes sir. Is the testimony you are about to give the truth, the whole truth
and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Rasmussen: Yes.
Corrie: Thank you. Name and address please.
City Council Special Meeting
May 1, 2002
Page 18 of 25
Rasmussen: Brent Rasmussen, 4315 N. Ten Mile. I was the person Charles
Crane was talking about who is building the house. I came in late and didn’t
know how to refer to that. From what I understanding, I think we are going to be
fine there. I would like a little more clarification on the mixed-use for that area
around the Waste Water Treatment Plant. You want offices to be built there?
Corrie: Here is what it will read. A new category called mixed-use Waste Water
Treatment Plant for land abutting the Waste Water Treatment Plant that allows
the following uses within this area. Light professional office use, flex space use
including light warehouse, no new residential will be permitted other than what is
there now. Limited small scale retail use, business park type use and mini
storages. Unless otherwise permitted by city adopted incentives, all development
within this designated area will require approval by the Conditional Use Permit
process.
Rasmussen: So it could stay exactly how it is, or if someone wanted to modify it,
they could modify it. it leaves it wide open within constraints. I just wanted to
make sure my voice is put in that I do like how it is now, too, and want to make
sure provisions are made for it to continue that way.
Corrie: One of the things this whole future land use map does not change
anybody’s zone or what they have there now. This is the future land use. We
would like to see people put their input in, this is what they would like to see in
areas. That is what, if they come in to change, that is what we go by.
Rasmussen: It gives direction. That is the whole point.
Corrie: This is the plan, this isn't written in stone. This is the plan that we try to
follow so that we know what we are doing in the future, where we put our future
sewer lines, water, schools, fire. This gives us a plan to work with in the next
twenty years, hopefully it will last five to eight and we will do it again. That gives
us something to look forward to and what to do.
Rasmussen: Right. My main concern was the direction that I didn’t want it to go
to with my land. Thank you.
Corrie: I would do the same thing. Any one else?
Siddoway: Mr. Mayor, I may recommend, based on the confusion that seems to
be generated. The fact that existing residential uses can remain is understood
but not expressively written, we could add that to the definition.
Corrie: That would clear it up.
Bird: That would be located on the map itself?
City Council Special Meeting
May 1, 2002
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Corrie: I would put it on the map – right there if you want.
Siddoway: No –
Bird: Make another bullet down there, item like you did on these Steve.
Corrie: Just to clear it up –
Siddoway: The only reason I wouldn’t is because we have other mixed-use
designations that won’t be defined on the map. All the mixed-use definitions are
in the text – there is a lot of text that goes with those.
Bird: You are right there.
Siddoway: So I would just leave it to the text.
Corrie: Yes ma’am. You certainly may. Is the testimony you are about to give
the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Nations: Yes.
Corrie: Name and address for the record please.
Nations: Patricia Nations, 4010 E. Franklin Road, Meridian. I just have a
question, I am with the group on Franklin down from RC Willey. We did not get a
notice at all on this meeting. We got our notice from Mr. Van Auker. I am just
wondering why we didn’t get an actual notice from you guys showing what was
going to be done and that this meeting was here.
Corrie: This meeting was noticed. All this is a land use, showing the public what
we want to do for the Comprehensive Plan. We are not changing any zoning,
anyone’s land. If we did that, we would notify everyone within three hundred
feet. This has been noticed as an informational future land map for the City of
Meridian. It was noticed as a Public Hearing – nobody got a special invitation to
come, its just what they have – everyone who is coming here wants to make sure
we understand what they would like to see and what they want and make sure
what they have is what they want. So consequently we don’t have to give a
special notice to each one.
Nations: That is what I wondered. The other one is that I feel that those five or
six lots there, I am not sure how many – they are five acre lots. I think they
should stay in the light industrial rather than going to high impact residential.
That is my feeling and I wanted to get my input to you.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
City Council Special Meeting
May 1, 2002
Page 20 of 25
Corrie: Mrs. De Weerd.
De Weerd: I had a question for you. If we put that as a mixed-use regional,
which still encourages high density but also with a mixture of the industrial types
of uses so you can blend surrounding uses in with residential use, would that
meet more of what you see in that area?
Corrie: That is one of the things we were thinking about – making that change.
De Weerd: To take that a little further, we did that to the area to the north on the
other side of the track, the undeveloped area, so it makes sense to bring it down
to that area as well to encourage a better blending process. It is just a
suggestion at this point.
Corrie: Staff, any other comments? Council? I think we probably need another
meeting for reference on this. What would Council like to do?
Bird: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would agree that we need one more and I would hope that at that one –
we probably ought to keep it as a continued Public Hearing – at that point we can
make a decision. Staff has really went beyond the call in getting this stuff redone
for us and taking our notes. I take it as a feeling amongst the Council and mayor
right now that those six, five acres lots, the owners would like to see that
changed to mixed-use regional. Which I think would be a very good blend in
there. Staff can change that. How long would it take the staff to get Brad
comments into the text and reprinted, and I think we just have one change on
your map it won’t take long for you to do that. I think that is the feeling of the
Council, to change that area.
Corrie: Mr. Bird, Mr. Berg is checking on dates that are open, so that we can
handle that –
Bird: I hope that we can have one more Public Hearing and close it. If we don’t
have much more change we can pass it and get it in action and going.
Nary: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I would concur with Mr. Bird. I think to give everyone the opportunity to see
really the nearly final map, it might be beneficial to have at least one more Public
Hearing. I certainly think we would want to encourage our friends in the media
(inaudible) this might be your last chance. That way if people really want to know
City Council Special Meeting
May 1, 2002
Page 21 of 25
and see what it looks like, if they haven't had the opportunity to see this map. I
think it has been done excellently by staff and I want to make sure that folks see
that we made some changes some people requested and we didn’t make some
changes that others requested. We want to be fair and give the opportunity to
have that input. I think its wise to at least have one more.
Bird: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I believe also that along the lines of Mr. Nary that not only the map, but if
we get the changes in the text printed so that people if they like can read it with
the changes in it. Instead of afterwards looking through it. What is the date you
want it Mayor?
Corrie: We have Wednesday the 15th
or Thursday the 30th
.
Bird: Does the 15th
work for staff?
Nary: I would really prefer the 15th
.
Corrie: I would too. I don’t want to put this off any more than we have to and I
think it gives the press enough time to get it out to the people, and everyone can
look at the maps, and if they have any final questions, they can bring it to us. We
want everyone to see what it looks it, get your blessing, because what we want is
what you want. It is your city. We just help put it together and you tell us what to
do. Hopefully we follow your instructions. Or in four or two years someone else
will do it for you. That being the case, I think Mr. Berg, the 15th
– Bird, excuse
me. I have Bird and Berg.
Bird: Which one are you talking to?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Nary: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I think to, we had talked at the last workshop about trying to have the map,
the semi final map available at city hall, library and your offices, and maybe that
will be part of the press release or information we can get out, so folks know
there are places they can go see it. So that they can provide some meaningful
testimony if they want to do that.
Siddoway: Yes, Mr. Mayor and Mr. Nary, the draft map that we are looking at
tonight is on display at Planning and Zoning, here at the City Clerk’s office, and
City Council Special Meeting
May 1, 2002
Page 22 of 25
at the library. If anyone wishes to have their own copy, we have the reduced
versions for sale for $2.00, which is the cost of reproduction. We have some
available tonight and we also have more at our office.
Bird: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: We have a young gentleman that could get a quarter of a page map of that
in the Statesman, do you suppose? I know the colors would be hard to pick up,
but it might not be too bad. I don’t know if they can do it. I know they can do it in
color.
De Weerd: The colors will be –
Bird: The colors would look real nice on about the first page of the local.
Corrie: I think you know the editor.
Bird: Do we know who we are talking to out there now? Anyway – and I am sure
the Valley Times will do the same thing. That would be a way people could – if
they see the map, and even if the detail in the paper wasn’t good enough, they
would know to come and look at one of the larger maps.
Nary: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I hate to ask this question, but is it something that can be put on the
website?
Corrie: If we could scan it.
Nary: I mean, it is just a scanned document –
Bird: That’s not a bad idea.
Nary: -- then it is something that can be put on the website.
Corrie: We can’t do that until Monday, put it on the web page.
Nary: I don’t know if its possible, like I said, but if it is, that would be another
avenue people could see it.
City Council Special Meeting
May 1, 2002
Page 23 of 25
Siddoway: I actually looked into it, there was some file size issues. But it can be
worked out. I just don’t know if it can be worked out before the next hearing. But I
can look into it.
Nary: Just a thought, its something else.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mrs. De Weerd.
De Weerd: Also to note the few additional things we talked about tonight. Like
the pieces that have yet to be approved to go into Boise, as well as the thirty
acres we have been talking about on Franklin.
Corrie: You know what that answer to that was, don’t you?
De Weerd: So, if those could be incorporated, that would be great.
Siddoway: Just to make sure I got it. Show the change on the six lots that are
currently high density residential to MURG. We talked about the impact area
changes, but I don’t see a change to the map. Is there a change to the map you
are expecting related to those? That is not shown here? Oh, the ones that are
approved –
De Weerd: Just that they are not yet out of our area of impact.
Bird: Its still showing.
De Weerd: Still show them.
Siddoway: Show them taken out. Okay, I can do that.
Bird: You have already got them taken out.
Corrie: There is only one you can take out. You already have the one taken out
on Ustick. Then there is that one little strip –
Siddoway: Yes, and then the one on the northeast corner –
Bird: Yes, right up to the north there, that first little band.
Siddoway: Okay, we can do that.
De Weerd: And that MURG, we get used to using acronyms. That is the mixed-
use regional.
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May 1, 2002
Page 24 of 25
Siddoway: We can make that available in hard copy or as a digital file, a JPG.
Bird: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: With no more discussion, I would move that we continue this Public
Hearing for the Comprehensive Plan until May 15th
at 6:30 p.m.
McCandless: Second.
Corrie: Motion has been made to continue this Public Hearing to May the 15th
at
6:30 p.m. at city hall.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Do I hear a second? Okay. Mrs. De Weerd.
De Weerd: Do you promise we will vote on it?
Bird: Hey, I am ready to vote tonight guys. Don’t look at me. I have been one of
the few who has been here since we started it three years ago.
Nary: I would be more than happy to be able to vote on this May 15th
.
Corrie: We will unless some unforeseen circumstances pop up, I imagine we
would. Any further discussion? All those in favor of the motion say aye. All ayes
motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: See that that takes care of the agenda, I will entertain a motion to
adjourn.
De Weerd: So moved.
McCandless: Second.
Corrie: Motion is made and seconded to adjourn. All those in favor say aye. At
7:50 p.m.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Meeting adjourned at 7:50 p.m.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
City Council Special Meeting
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Page 25 of 25
APPROVED:
/ /
ROBERT D. CORRIE, MAYOR DATE APPROVED
ATTESTED:
WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., CITY CLERK