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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2002 03-06 Comp PlanMeridian City Council Special Meeting March 6, 2002 The special meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:35 P.M. on Wednesday, March 6, 2002, by Mayor Robert Corrie. Members Present: Mayor Robert Corrie, Keith Bird, Bill Nary, Cherie McCandless, and Tammy de Weerd. Others Present: Shari Stiles, Brad Hawkins-Clark, Steve Siddoway, Bill Nichols, and Will Berg. Item 1. Roll-call Attendance: X Tammy de Weerd X Bill Nary X Cherie McCandless X Keith Bird X Mayor Robert Corrie Corrie: The first item is roll-call attendance Mr. Clerk. Item 2. Adoption of the Agenda: Corrie: First off, I would like thank everybody for being here today, tonight. Give us all your information that you have and we will take it and see if we can do the best job that one city does. Council, item number two is adoption of the agenda. This is a continued Public Hearing for proposed amendments to the Comprehensive Plan of the City of Meridian. Nary: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: I would move for the adoption of the agenda. McCandless: Second. Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded to adopt the agenda. Any further discussion? All those in favor say aye. Opposed, no. Roll-Call: Bird, aye; De Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Nary, aye. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Item 3. Continued Public Hearing: Proposed Amendment to the Comprehensive Plan for the City of Meridian: Corrie: This is continued Public Hearing on the proposed amendments to the Comprehensive Plan for the City of Meridian, so at this time I will open the continued public hearing. We have sign-in sheets at the back. We would like to make sure that we Meridian City Council Special Meeting March 6, 2002 Page 2 of 21 have everybody who would like to speak tonight sign in so that we do have a record. When we have the land use map sign in between I-84 and Ustick Road. Sign in sheet for the priority growth areas and urban services; schools, parks and open spaces; and mixed-use areas and incentives. And also land use between Ustick Road and Chinden Boulevard. What we will do tonight is lay the ground rules as to each person will have approximately three minutes to give any testimony they would like to have if they feel that they will need more than three minutes, let me know at the beginning. But probably three is minutes is pretty good, so at this point, lets start with the land use map at I-84 and Ustick Road. We have two people who would like to testify tonight. Ben Jepson and Bob Barnes, so lets start with Ben Jepson. Raise your right hand please. Is the testimony you are about to give the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you, God? Thank you. Now if you will give your name and address please. Jepson: Ben Jepson 2820 W. Pine in Meridian. Actually it is in the county, but Meridian is all the way around it. I guess really what I want to do is – can I go forward to the map? Corrie: You certainly can, take that microphone there with you. Jepson: Our property is right here. You could say that we have – right here is our property. We have six acres there. I don’t know that I want to testify, just requesting that our property be recommended zone the same as this, this is mixed-use, I believe. Ours is currently zoned R-T with a recommended residential mixed-use. We would just request that our property be included in the mixed-use zoning. Ours is six acres – it doesn’t fall into the ten acre one, but several of these down here are one and two acre lots, so ours is a bit larger than those right across the road from us. That is all I wanted to say. Corrie: Thank you, Ben. Bob Barnes. Is the testimony you are about it give tonight the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Barns: Yes sir. Corrie: Thank you. Name and address please. Barnes: Bob Barnes, 2855 Magic View Drive. I guess I just asked for a little clarification. I have been involved in this process since the beginning, it has been two and a half going on ten years. I guess the last I understood, we were going to try to work on the stretch between Ustick and south actually, and then the north Meridian plan they were going to do them separately, now I see them together. I guess that is a point of concern to me because we have our lives on hold and if we include these two together, it looks to me that we are going to delay this whole thing a considerable amount of time. I was wondering what your plan of attack was, I guess. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. De Weerd. Meridian City Council Special Meeting March 6, 2002 Page 3 of 21 De Weerd: It will be a separate process, although a Comprehensive Plan needs to look at your whole area of impact, so it will have areas addressed in the north Meridian area. It won’t be as specific as the overlay that we hope to adopt at a later time. These are two different processes. Barnes: Okay, I guess our concern in the whole subdivision’s concern is that there is quite a few deals in the works depending on a specific time frame, and if the time frame extends very much longer, all bets are off, and we are going to lose some fairly significant things that we feel would benefit Meridian. Corrie: Thank you, Bob. Is there anyone else who hasn’t signed up for the land use between I-84 and Ustick Road tonight? Is the testimony you are about to give the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Hagget: It is. Corrie: Name and address please. Hagget: Rob Hagget, 590 N. Maple Grove Road, Boise Idaho. I didn’t sign up to testify, I just noticed something that I would like to get on the record as requesting on a parcel of property that a company I work for, Avest Limited Partnership, has just acquired in a recent transaction. It is the corner where the planned transit use is, at the corner of Ten Mile and Franklin. The original owner – we divided a parcel of property that adjoins a mini-storage just north of Ten Mile and Franklin, on the railroad tracks. We actually picked up an extra parcel of property along with that and did a lot line adjustment with the county that the plan is to develop the entire parcel as mini-storage, and it would make sense – we are in the process of making application with the county to get that property rezoned from agricultural to industrial. Looking at this corner on the requested changes to the land use map, that entire northwest corner shows a citizen initiated request to change to industrial from mixed-use is – that staff disagrees with. I can understand their position on that, but with two separate parcels being broken out now, I believe that the north section of that, approximately fifty-five acre corner could be changed to industrial and the south portion continue to be mixed-use. It would make sense. The piece that we have put together is basically a long rectangle. It has about 450 feet of frontage on Ten Mile and then runs west along the railroad tracks to the far end, to the west end, about another 1200 feet. Actually about 1600 feet. In seeing this tonight, we would like to be on the record as requesting that the north parcel be zoned as industrial in the new land use map. De Weerd: The northeast? Hagget: It is actually the north. This north portion of this entire corner. Corrie: Just south of the railroad tracks. Hagget: Exactly. The south portion of the railroad tracks. About 450 south, 450 feet south from the railroad tracks and then our parcel basically now is a big rectangle. The original parcel was a triangle on the corner here that was already zoned commercial in Meridian City Council Special Meeting March 6, 2002 Page 4 of 21 the county. Now we have picked up a portion of this property that is agriculturally zoned. Any questions? Thank you very much. Corrie: Next on the sign up sheet is priority growth areas, urban services. Melinda Maxwell and Ken Gold. Melinda? Is she here? This is the priority growth areas, urban services. Raise your right hand please. Is the testimony you are about to give the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Thank you and if you will give your name and address please. Maxwell: Melinda Maxwell – Corrie: Pull that mike down, it makes it easier, thank you. Maxwell: 4455 N. McDermott Road. We are on the, just on the edge where they show McDermott. We are on the west side. Corrie: Do you want to take that mike and we can hear – yes. Maxwell: North of Ustick, yes that’s good. We are on this side of McDermott with Five Mile Creek as our north border. On the bigger map, it has the colors that the smaller maps don’t, it shows the area right across the street from us as medium density and just north of that is high density residential. It is my understanding from reading the map. De Weerd: Isn't that low density? Maxwell: On the east side of McDermott, right across the street from us. Right there and further north, right that is medium – I’m sorry? Nary: This is low density right here. Maxwell: Okay that is low density then high around it and high north. I want to go on the record saying I am opposed to that. We live in a rural area on acreage by choice, not to have subdivisions coming in and taking up additional farmland. Personally I would like to see growth but more back toward Boise than towards Nampa. Leave what little is left of the farmland in this valley alone. Boise and Meridian are coming pretty close together as it is. The other thing, not specifically to do with this, but I happened to find out about this meeting yesterday afternoon from my neighbor – we don’t seem to hear much publicity about town meetings. I know there have been several in the past but we found out after the fact. What can we do, or what can be done to get the word out a little better on the town meetings in this because a town meeting is not an appropriate term since we are not in town – we are out in the county. But how do we find out about these? Corrie: Do you take The Statesman or Valley Times or any of those? Maxwell: Statesman on the weekends. Meridian City Council Special Meeting March 6, 2002 Page 5 of 21 Corrie: they try to put these in as many papers and times they can – we just hope – plus folders we put out – but most of the time it is in the newspaper, and we are going to have some other meetings, so if you want to see Shari Stiles over there, she can give you some other dates we are having continued hearings. We had one last Wednesday and one this Wednesday and we will have a couple more. Maxwell: Okay, this is the first one we have made it to and we have been on this property almost three years. Like I said, you usually find out after the fact. I didn’t know if you sent out fliers or – Corrie: Mostly it is through the newspaper that everybody takes – we hope they take the newspaper around here and see it, or the neighbors like you did. Maxwell: Thank you. Corrie: Ken Goldback? (inaudible) Corrie: Okay, thank you. Is there anyone else who would like to, who hasn’t signed up yet for the priority growth areas and urban services? Next we have schools, parks and open spaces. The sign up sheet has Charles Crane. Charles? Raise your right hand please. Is the testimony you are about to give the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Crane: Yes it is. Corrie: Name and address please. Crane: My name is Charles Crane and I live at 3610 W. Ustick Road. I specifically wanted to get an idea of what Meridian is going to look like say nine years from now when this Comprehensive Plan is getting ready to be replaced by the next Comprehensive Plan, if this one lasts as long as the previous one. I have heard a lot of talk that people don’t want this to be a bedroom community. But as you look around at many of the cities that used to be bedroom communities, most of them have grown up and have a lot of commercial areas and they fit them in where they can and the nice little bedroom community has become apartments and high rises and the town keeps growing. I would like to see the town stay as farmland and country, but I realize that is not what is going to happen here. So if we are faced with being a bedroom community or a business community, or an industrial community, I am wondering what we can hold onto by using this Comprehensive Plan. The only thing that I see in this Comprehensive Plan that would make this city stand out from some of the other cities is the walk-way system, similar to what has made Boise keep a measure of a special place. There is a River Festival, and their pathway is something that sets Boise apart from being just another big city with houses and businesses and houses and businesses. This is our chance to do something for the future. Ten years from now, are we just going to be a bunch of subdivisions and businesses? I wasn’t here at the last meeting because I had to travel to Denver and I had to travel to Ft. Worth. While I was at those towns I was looking, and its just houses and businesses, houses and businesses. How are we gong Meridian City Council Special Meeting March 6, 2002 Page 6 of 21 to have any identity if we don’t do something now with this Comprehensive Plan, so I would like to encourage us to put all the emphasis on the pathway system with the walk-ways. There is one specific thing I would like to recommend. Along Linder Road, if you go toward Eagle, it goes into the nice state park down there. What I would like to recommend is that we include a pathway that goes up Linder Road from our proposed pathway system to connect up to the state park, and not isolate Meridian, but connect to the state park along Linder. Thank you. Corrie: Thank you Charles. The next is mixed-use areas and incentives. On the sign-in sheet we had five people on that. First we have Mr. Paul Clayton. Paul? Is the testimony you are about to give the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Clayton: I do. Corrie: Thank you, Paul, please give your name and address. Clayton: My name is Paul Clayton. 7972 E. Fourth Place in Downing California, 90241. I am concerned about the pathways on the property on Eagle Road and Commercial Court. If we put a pathway across that piece of land, it will devalue that land by a tremendous amount of money. At the moment we plan on putting the piece of property on the market for sale. And in discussing the value of the land with the real estate people, they tell us that the value of the land will drop in excess of a million dollars because of that pathway. The mixed-use zoning is not the best. We would rather have it a commercial zone on the front six or seven hundred feet in the rear and a light industrial zone to avoid any kind of use problems we would have with the Commission later on. You can see where that runs across there. That would disturb the land quite a bit, in the way of value. And avoiding condition use permits with multi-use, we would rather have it zoned as a commercial zone because the back of the whole piece is commercial zone anyway. Blue Cross being just to the north of us has already set up a zoning problem we can handle very well with us all commercial zoned and the rear light industrial and avoid the pathway across the land. We can use sidewalks on the street for that purpose. Thank you. Corrie: Thank you Paul. Frank Johnson? Johnson: I will pass. Corrie: All right, thank you Frank. Jean Johnson. Johnson: We are fine for now. Corrie: Thank you Jean. Melynda Maxwell? You have been sworn in, so please give your name and address again for the record. Maxwell: Melynda Maxwell, 4455 N. McDermott Road. A couple things, on the that land use issue on the map, there is item number 4, retaining the 1993 Comprehensive Plan land use for all areas north of Ustick and inserting the north Meridian area plan when it is done. What is that exactly? Meridian City Council Special Meeting March 6, 2002 Page 7 of 21 Hawkins-Clark: Thank you, Mayor. That refers to a request that was made by private party to the city for a ten square mile area between Ustick and Chinden, from McDermott to Locust Grove, that is ten square miles in there. They are currently working on a plan that would be potentially in the future an overlay to what we are working on here. So that party who is working on that plan has requested that what is shown on this plan tonight not go in, and just be left as our current 1993 plan which is up on this wall here – you can go up and walk around here. No its back there, it kind of where we are at. Basically I can tell you it is virtually all single-family housing with some commercial at the intersections of Ten Mile and McMillan and Meridian and McMillan. There is no designation at this point on this. So they are proposing just to leave it as the 1993 plan instead of what this plan shows. Maxwell: On these seven items, these are undecided? Just different issues that people have and on low density areas, what is that considered? R-4? Corrie: R-1, R-2, one house per acre or low density is three and four, yes. High density is R-14, apartments. Maxwell: So then back to the area where that person was earlier, across from us – that being a low density, you are looking at three to four homes per acre? Corrie: Possibly. Maybe higher, I don’t know. That is the testimony we are trying to get tonight, to see which way to go. Maxwell: My understanding when we moved out there was everything to the east on the east side was no smaller than five acres and everything on the west side was no smaller than ten, though grandfathered if the property was of a different size. So this is a proposed change to that? Corrie: Well it is not a proposed change, we don’t know -- that is what we are trying to get what the people want to see up there. We don’t have any changes at all at this point. Maxwell: I would like to go on record saying low density across from us – I would like to keep it at five acres and the property north of us also, north and east, five acres. Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: I don’t know if this would help explain it a little bit to you – what you are talking about, that five acre designation, that is a county zone. The area you live in is in the county. All this map is, all this proposal is, is what people think might happen or what they might like to see happen. If you don’t want to sell you property and you don’t want to have anyone buy it and develop it, you don’t have to. It can stay the way it is for as long as you want it. All it is saying is that as it develops and grows and changes when other people sell their properties, and want to be a part of the city, then some of those things are going to change, and we don’t have five acre zoning areas with in the city. We won’t leave it at the five acre zoning because that is a county designation. Meridian City Council Special Meeting March 6, 2002 Page 8 of 21 Maxwell: That was my point earlier, was not to build up the area on the west side as much. Nary: And again, I don’t know if this answers your question. As people buy that property, and want to be a part of the city, those are the types of decisions that are going to happen in the next five years, ten years, fifteen years or longer. Maxwell: Or is it going to be shorter than that? Nary: It could be short depending on what they want to do with their property – it is their property if they sell it and someone wants to develop it, wants to be a part of the city, that is what this plan is for, to figure out what is going to happen or what may happen. That is the intent of what we are trying to do. Maxwell: So if it goes city, what happens to septic systems – Nary: For your property, nothing. For someone else’s property if they want to be part of the city, it depends on where it’s at, depends on what is going on with it. Then they have to be part of the sewer system, part of the city water system, those types of things. Maxwell: Which at this point and time doesn’t exist out there. Nary: Right, that is what I was thinking – it depends on what is going on that particular time. Maxwell: And what I have understood is that the Black Cat to McDermott, Cherry to Ustick block, that the proposal has been put in – they are going to have to run the septic system all the way up McDermott to Five Mile Creek and then back into Meridian. Nary: But that is a different thing we are looking at besides this. Maxwell: But that would be coming right up where we are already at. Nary: At some point. Corrie: We don’t know when. Maxwell: Has a decision been made on that one mile block? Nary: The mile block you were just talking about? Maxwell: The Cherry to Ustick, Black Cat to McDermott. Nary: Different plan from what we area talking about but our Public Works Department has a plan as to where, how the sewer system will grow, the water system, how those things will grow and the structured scheduled time lines. Those are still things we are evaluate over time, so that is not something that is easily decided other than areas within the area of impact. We are talking about that big black line that goes all the way around. Meridian City Council Special Meeting March 6, 2002 Page 9 of 21 Maxwell: Can I step over and see the – Nary: This whole thing is the area of impact of the city. All we do is evaluate how do we grow and provide those services within that area of impact and in what time frame we can do that. Maxwell: Can you show me on the map with your handy little – where the city limit --- Nary: Where the city limits are or the city area of impact is? Maxwell: Where the city limits end right now. Nary: I think its right about here, isn't it? Bird: It is right there on Black Cat. Maxwell: It comes out to Black Cat? Bird: It goes past. Nichols: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Nichols. Nichols: If I can – hello. Maxwell: I am sorry sir. Nichols: It is my job to be as invisible as possible. Maxwell: You did very good. Nichols: There was a proposal for a subdivision on the northeast corner of Cherry Lane and Black Cat Road which was turned down. That was denied by the city. Maxwell: Northwest corner – Nichols: Northeast corner of Cherry Lane and McDermott. That was one that was proposed by – that has been over a year ago. It would be east and south of where you are talking about, down in that area. The city – Maxwell: That is where the Janiceks – Nichols: That was denied. But that, as far as I know, has been the only application that has come before the city in that area. And the reason for the denial was the lack of sewer. And also a desire on the part of the city to try to grow from the inside out. Okay? Maxwell: Okay. So right now, the city boundary is Black Cat? Meridian City Council Special Meeting March 6, 2002 Page 10 of 21 Nichols: Well, past Black Cat, you know where the new homes are going on the old Langley place. That is city limits there. Maxwell: Okay. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: One thing, I am right here, one thing that might help is – our area of impact is where you can grow to urban densities. And urban densities are those higher than the rural densities, one per five acres. Our area of impact line runs up McDermott Road. Anything to the east of that will be allowed to grow at urban densities. Anything west of that is county and it would be up to their own zoning requirements, so at any point as we grow and are contiguous, and someone applies they can grow at an urban density, because they are within that city area of impact. Now, McDermott sewer trunk line serves that area. it is not one of our priorities for our sewer trunk lines. At this point, that is how we are growing. We are growing along with our sewer trunk line. Maxwell: I understand. I was just wondering about that because of the rumors of people that are out there, you know, what they have heard, so I wanted a little clarification. De Weerd: If we could, I think, people would want us to grow in every single direction. We just can’t do that. Maxwell: Go east. Thank you. De Weerd: Go east – we are running out of land. Corrie: We can only go east so far and then Boise runs into us. Thank you. See you later. Land use between Ustick Road and Chinden Boulevard, which is that north section here. We have three, six, nine signed up for that right now. Mike and Charlene Myers. You decline? Charlene, both? Okay, Maxwell? Okay, thank you. Ken, the same way? Doug Stewart? Is the testimony you are about to give the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Stewart: So help me God. Corrie: Thank you. Give us your name and address please for the record. Stewart: Doug Stewart, 5960 N. Linder Road. Where I have lived for 25 years. I have lived there because it was rural and I didn’t think you would ever have the opportunity to approach me. But obviously that is not the truth. But I see coming up the Eagle side of Chinden, large lots, nice houses, good plan of development. I see our plan for the Meridian side – now if you look at that map, I don’t even exist. I haven't sold that property yet but it is already slated for forty houses. Well I didn’t move out there to be surrounded by forty houses, I don’t believe – the other people who have rural property Meridian City Council Special Meeting March 6, 2002 Page 11 of 21 are probably there for the same reason I am – not to live with other people. I realize there is nothing we can do about the growth. But when you get to Chinden, you are the furthest from Meridian you are going to get. What are we doing planning clear out there when we have got all this land right up next to town? Why aren't we developing from inside out? Corrie: Let me take a crack at this. Primarily we are trying to go from inside out. We have to plan what is going to happen, hopefully, in the next fifteen to twenty years, what it might look like. If we just say, that is land out there, developers do what you want, then you would be coming in screaming that we didn’t even plan and what did we want to see? This is one of the reasons we have people coming in. You tell us what you would like to see out there. You and I both know, it is going to grow. There are people coming in. The best way to do it is to see how you wanted to grow, and then we plan that way. Then as people sell the land, we have some idea of a plan that we can look at and say yes, we have looked at it, people have agreed to this type of thing. Some do, some don’t. At least we have a plan. If we don’t have a plan, it is going to be disastrous. Anyone can do anything they want. What do you think? What would you like to see? Stewart: It is interesting to me that when the land around me was first sold, the first plan I saw were five acre parcels which would be consistent with myself and my two neighbors. Now we are up to forty houses on a five acres parcel, which is hardly consistent with what we have. Certainly not where I will want to live. If we are going to allow the speculators and builders to actually dictate what is going to be done, then I think those of us who already have parcels of land there should be given the first opportunity as to what we want to do with our land. If we are going to be surrounded and driven out of it, then we ought to have, since we have road frontage, we ought to have the opportunity to use it as a commercial venture or subdivide it ourselves. But the small guy who is out there needs to have some input and the opportunity with their land other than just be driven off of it. Which is what it looks like will happen. Corrie: Anybody want to – Nary: Mr. Mayor. How big is your property, sir? Stewart: Five acres. Nary: You have absolute control over what you do with that five acres. If you want it to be commercial, you have someone who wants to buy it or you want to develop it yourself, and you want to come to the city and be annexed into the city and maybe have (inaudible) zoning – that is what we will look at. That is all we are doing. The builders don’t drive what happens to those properties. The landowners drive what happens to those properties. The landowners decide what they want to do with their land. Some want to sell it, some want to develop themselves. People do both things. All this plan is, all this does, is say right now, for the City of Meridian’s growth, as we grow north to Ustick, and it has been consistently the city’s perspective on a majority of applications that come before it, to grow from the inside out. It is not an exact science. That is the attempt, is to do exactly what you just said. All we are doing with this plan, as we grow, what do we believe that area is going to be like. Is it going to be all commercial? Because I will tell you there are a lot of people who come and say we would like that Meridian City Council Special Meeting March 6, 2002 Page 12 of 21 map to be all brown, in commercial or mixed-use all over the place. We would rather have stores and offices and commercial because it makes more money. Other people say no, we build houses – we want houses up there. So we have to figure out what is a mixture to have a good city? To have nice compatibility of different things. We are basically guessing and hoping and looking at it and trying to plan and make a good idea, an educated guess sometimes as to what types of growth. The builders don’t – nobody drives you out. It is your property you can do whatever you want. You could live there forever. Stewart: Well, that is all well and good – Nary: You make the decisions on what happens with your property. You don’t get to make necessarily the decision as to what happens with your neighbor’s property. They may choose to sell it, divide it, develop it – do whatever they want to do with it too. All we are doing is saying, as we go north, we are trying to mix and match. That is why you hear all these folks saying I don’t want my property to be green, I want it to be brown. Some people say no, I don’t want my neighbors property to high density, I want them to be low. You know, there is a lot of that give and take, and that is what we are doing, taking that information and then we want to look at that map, that is our base right now, that map in the back. That is our base we are looking at and saying now what are we going to do? Are we going to do that or do it a little different? That is what we are going to do. Stewart: I want to make sure that a small landowner like myself has an input into it because just like you could surround me with forty houses an acre, why would I want to live there. Nary: This is exactly. Stewart: You can say I can keep it that’s fine. What if I were to buy your city block and decide to put a correctional facility next door. You wouldn’t like that. Nary: Absolutely. That is the full intent of the plan, to give a broad over view of what you would like to see, individual projects then come along that fit within those little blocks, some are offices, some are apartments, some are stores, and they are all different kinds of things. Then we look at those individual things and send out notice, and you come say, I don’t want that correctional facility next to my house. And we make a decision, is that fit or not fit. That is how that works. Stewart: I will be keeping an eye on it. Nary: I think everyone here is doing that. Stewart: I will be back. Corrie: See that you do, it is your city, you have to tell us what you want. Stewart: That is right. Meridian City Council Special Meeting March 6, 2002 Page 13 of 21 Corrie: Thank you Doug. Ken Beckwith. Ken, is the testimony you are about to give the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Beckwith: I do. Corrie: Your name and address please then. Beckwith: My name is Ken Beckwith, I live at 2866 W. Park Stone Street and prior to seeing the paper Monday, and the map back here at the back tonight, I was ready to come back and testify again, but then the Council and the staff has already changed the area at Ten Mile and Ustick from light industrial to mixed-use. I applaud everybody that is concerned with making that change. That is all I have to say. Corrie: Thank you Ken. Janet Wilder. David Irish. (inaudible) Corrie: Charles Crane. You are already sworn in, so give your address and name please. Crane: Charles Crane at 3610 W. Ustick Road. I would like to address the north Meridian plan overlay. I would like to be on record that I oppose the idea that a private party would overlay their ideas on top of the city, even though I disagree with you at times, I would like you to keep that power for yourselves – don’t give it to the developers. You guys please make the decisions and listen to the public testimony, don’t just take an overlay and plop it on top of your decisions. I would like you to listen to us and make the decisions on what happens in the north area. Thank you. Corrie: Thank you – Nary: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: I was just going to address Mr. Crane. That is not how that works. It is not going to be like that. All this group has done is come up with a proposal. We would have to have Public Hearings, we have to make that decision to include. It isn't anyone dictating anything to us and not that we are giving away our authority to either. Just so you know. It is simply a proposal. All they did was have a group of people come up with a proposal rather than individual folks, like this process at this point. We still have public hearings that have to go to Planning and Zoning – it would have to be a land use map amendment, I think you know how that process works. It would be a Public Hearing at this level – all the same things we are talking about, just in a concentrated area. We would be the ones to decide in that, not anyone else. Crane: What I am saying is that I would like to have it part of the Comprehensive Plan now, not something considered later, so that the testimony and the peoples concerns in this area, that they would be invited to be part of this process that you have, not to have an independent process that might replace what we have worked hard at for now. Meridian City Council Special Meeting March 6, 2002 Page 14 of 21 Nary: Some of that depends a lot on timing. I mean you said, nine years from now – I hope we get this done in nine years. I don’t know – some of that depends on timing and how things evolve, but no matter what, before we would change whatever the map looks like when we are done with it, if we were going to change it to something else, and adopt some other plan that someone has proposed to us, we would have a process like this to do that. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I guess, as we look at the north Meridian overlay, when that comes to play, we can use a lot of the names and addresses that we are getting, that signed up specifically for that area, so you know when those public hearings (***End of Side One***) brass, and I would imagine that you would be involved with this north Meridian overlay anyway, but I think we could definitely could send out notices of when those public hearings begin on that overlay process. Corrie: Thank you Tammy. Jerry Stevenson. Raise your right hand -- is the testimony you are about to give the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Stevenson: It is. Corrie: Please give your name and address. Stevenson: Jerry Stevenson, 1640 N. Ten Mile Road. Mayor and Council, Mayor Corrie and councilmen, I guess I have a lot of homework to do, I was late getting into the game here. A couple years ago I went to build a shop on my place, I found out I was in the R- T zone, which was a shock to me, then I had to kind of move my shop back from the property lines. This now catches up with me, I wasn’t sure when that happened, so I need to start paying attention here. But there are several considerations that I am concerned with in this planning phase here. I did attend one of the town hall meetings, and I was very frustrated with it because a lot of the people who were there were jockeying for a position with a lot of the developers and professionals within that arena. A lot of the people there, like the traffic, were not there to answer questions, such as water rights, what happens to those water rights. We still live on acreage where we depend on irrigation. So there is a lot concerns I have there when they build all these houses over the top of these ditches right now. Also the traffic conditions – I look out my window on Chinden and I can see traffic backed up from Linder, over a mile during the rush hour periods. There are several considerations that I feel need to be looked at. If you drive up Ten Mile Road right now, between McMillan and Ustick, you can see what development has already caused in that area. That road is like, you know, it has a lot of cross-T’s in it and been repaired a couple times. But still they got, you know, asphalt sitting off to the side and this is a perfect example of what the developers have left, a result of that area of trying to plumb in future lines. The other concerns I have too, as far as trying to bring out the services to that area. My particular property looks to me that it has been exempt from that area, they just go to their own subdivisions and that is about Meridian City Council Special Meeting March 6, 2002 Page 15 of 21 it. That is one of my concerns. Also, with the schools, facing everything right now, I think we need to be a little bit more, I guess, forward thinking about how high of a density do we want to make this area as well. That is a big concern that everybody has right now, and I didn’t see a lot of answers in this town hall meeting as well. Yes, everybody wants more people to move in, but I am not sure that those things are really taken into consideration. What that is going to do to the traffic, that is my biggest issue I have seen that grow substantially, and is becoming a hazard in the road conditions out there. I don’t see any answers to what I saw being proposed in there. I would like to basically follow up by saying that I would like to see more of a control on moving the city out mile by mile instead of all the sudden taking ten square miles, make them develop it closer and then gradually limit where the subdivisions are going in over that time period, so they don’t start with the outward part and then move back in. that is basically what has happened right now and that is why we see a lot of open spaces between here and Boise and even right around the immediate city right here. I would like to see that enclosed in first. Thank you. Corrie: Anyone have comments on what he said? Nary: If I could add one comment to what Mr. Stevenson said, one of the other things that you as well as all these other folks have to understand too – right now, are you in the county? You are still in the county, correct? If we don’t have a plan as to what to do with that area, say the north area that we have been talking about, that is in the county. So if you – say someone wants to buy property north of you, we don’t have a plan, the county commissioners and county planning and zoning commission – they may decide what happens to that area. If we don’t have a plan, they can do whatever they want to within their ordinance. They won’t have to follow anything that we want because we don’t have any plans for it. They won’t have any obligation to follow anything and they will decide what it is. So when we were talking earlier about people wanting to watch what we are doing and making sure that we are doing things they would like to see or they have input we would like to see here in the city, you need to understand, you have to watch the county as well. They have the authority on the areas outside the city limits and if we don’t have a plan like what we are trying to accomplish here, they will just do what ever they decide to do. You need to watch them. You said your zoning changed and you didn’t realize that. That is the county changing that, that is not us. So that is again – if you talk about where do I have to watch what is going on, it isn't just here, you have to look down there at the county in the Planning and Zoning Commission of the county and what regulations and ordinances apply to them and what they are going to apply. But if we don’t plan for it, they will do what ever they would like to do and they won’t even be concerned about what we would like to see happen. Corrie: John Lindsey? Is the testimony you are about to give the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Lindsay: Yes sir. Corrie: For the record, please give your name and address. Lindsay: John Lindsay, 2990 W. Elk Stream, Meridian, off of Ten Mile Road. I am concerned about the area off of Ustick and Ten Mile on the west corner, in green. It Meridian City Council Special Meeting March 6, 2002 Page 16 of 21 says here change industrial to public park, office or residential, staff agrees. What do they mean by offices? Right now it is considered light industrial, I guess that is what they are changing it to. Corrie: Right now it is R-T, which is county. We are just – go ahead, I will let you answer that one for us. Hawkins-Clark: Thank you Mayor. Just to confirm we are talking about the northwest corner of Ustick and Ten Mile, correct? If you are interested, there are probably about six thousand sheets of testimony on this in the last three weeks – but to summarize, yes, there is currently a proposal to change the Comprehensive Plan, which is strictly a text policy that says industrial next to the Waste Water Treatment Plant. In terms of what you are looking at there, that is simply referring to all of the possible uses that would be allowed if it went to the mixed-use. The mixed-use is one of the things that staff is recommending for that. It wouldn’t necessarily mean that offices – it is simply saying that should they come in, offices could be one of the potential uses along with maybe some commercial or something else. Lindsay: Are they putting buses in that area? Hawkins-Clark: Our understanding is that the buses use, the school district is somewhat backing off from that. Lindsay: Up on this blue area over here, it says reconsidered buffered uses surrounding the Waste Water Treatment Plant – what will that be? What kind of buffers? Hawkins-Clark: That could vary. The city ordinance does require four different kinds of buffers depending on what the uses area. Everything from 15 feet to 35 feet. If you have low density next to high density, you would have 30 feet of buffer that could be everything from screening to walls to whatever – yes it could be buffered with uses, but what would you like to see? Lindsay: I just don’t want any buildings out there. Hawkins-Clark: The buffer screening typically – it could be buildings, but it would be something that would help to mitigate the noise, any odors, sounds and things like that. It could be a combination of buildings, fences, landscaping. Lindsay: Thank you very much. Corrie: Thank you. We have one other sign up, mixed-use areas and incentives. David Fuller. Is the testimony you are about to give the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Fuller: Yes sir. Corrie: For the record, name and address please. Meridian City Council Special Meeting March 6, 2002 Page 17 of 21 Fuller: David Fuller, 890 N. Ten Mile. I apologize for being late tonight. I thought it was 7:30 instead of 6:30, or I would have been here a little earlier. My wife couldn’t make it to the last meeting so I brought a letter to put on file. It goes, dear City Council and staff, I have looked over the latest map of mixed-use planning. The property south of us is mixed-use community. Our piece of ground has been in the latest map that I got from Brad, this particular one describing three different categories of mixed-use, is mixed-use neighborhood. We would like ours upgraded to mixed-use community, which I have discussed with Brad, because of our development proposal in the past. This gives us more flexibility for marketing and a broader range of services for our community. We have already been approved for R-15 housing which comes under the communities category and light office. We spent the last two years battling to acquire this commercial and R-15 zoning, and we feel if anyone deserves the higher mixed-use category, it is definitely us. I have talked to several of my neighbors and several agree with me. They thanked me for all the work we went through to get this mixed-use category going and I have their support. I would like to enter this letter into the record. Corrie: David, would you give me your wife’s name as well since she – Fuller: Shirley Fuller. Corrie: Thank you. Fuller: I guess I have a question for Brad – have you updated this map since we discussed it last? Do you have anything on the feelings of what I just said or what we talked about at the last meeting? Stiles: Mr. Mayor? I would like to address his comments about his use. What has already been approved for the Fuller property is what is approved, if anything beyond what has already been approved, the exact site plan, the elevations, the office, everything, you would need to come back through a Conditional Use Permit. Fuller: We understand that. Stiles: Your property is already zoned, you have entered into a development agreement, the property is zoned the R-15 and the L-O. That cannot be taken away from you. Fuller: We understand that. Stiles: So, whatever will fit within those zones and through the Conditional Use Permit is what will be permitted in that area. Fuller: We understand that, but what we are asking for is to be upgraded to the community to provide further services for another development that might come along. The reason being is that if you look at the map, do you have this to put up, Brad? I would just like to pass this real quick (inaudible) is the green on the south of me, the yellow to the north. These green are right up against subdivisions just like I am up against subdivisions. They are right across the street, therefore, we believe we should be – have that zoning for flexibility. It is mainly for the gas station, drive-thru banks, Meridian City Council Special Meeting March 6, 2002 Page 18 of 21 drive-thru Walgreens, that type of a thing. And the R-15 zoning is in the green category versus the yellow. She already mentioned that we had approval. That is why we would like to be upgraded. Bird: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: I believe Mr. Fuller, that as Shari was saying, you have already been zoned and actually the Comprehensive Plan isn't a zoning, it is a statement of what can maybe be allowed in there, so you are already zoned, your land is already been zoned for L-O and R-15. Now, if you had another development, you would have to come in and change it if you wanted a change from that. But the Comprehensive Plan regardless of what it says on that corner, isn't a guarantee that you are going to get that zone or that you can’t get what you want zoned. Fuller: We understand that also, but without having a plan or guide to go by, it makes it kind of hard to get another developer to come in and may other neighbor Jepson testified tonight, I wasn’t here to hear his testimony but I believe he would also be interested in upgrading his. His is not even in the plan at all. I guess what I am saying here is – I am not asking for the zoning, I am asking for the classification on the mixed- use and that is what I heard these developers get up here at the last meeting and say there was problem. The classification and time and all this and that, so if we have a classification that gives them more flexibility and more uses for the community, I believe that is what we need on this particular area. I believe it is beneficial to the community. Nary: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: Mr. Fuller, just so I am clear on what you are saying here. This is just another proposal. That is all this map is. Fuller: That is right and that is why I am here. Nary: You like the proposal, you would also like for your property to be changed – Fuller: Upgraded. Nary: Changed in this process, that is basically your bottom line. You like this idea. Fuller: Yes, I support the idea. Yes. Nary: And you also wanted also to include your property in it as well. Fuller: Right. Because I believe it is beneficial to the community. Nary: Good. Meridian City Council Special Meeting March 6, 2002 Page 19 of 21 Corrie: Thank you. Is there any others back there Brad? Any other sign-up sheets Steve? Is there anyone from the public now that would like to enter any other testimony tonight that hasn’t done so? Okay, well again I wanted to say thank you to everybody who participated and for everybody showing up. As I said before, this is your community, you have to help us the way you want to see it done. If you don’t tell us, then we have to make a decision based upon what we think and that may not be what you think. So let us know what you want and tell us and we can do something about changes if you want to see a change, if you don’t, then we will work on that too. It is very important that you do talk to us, each of us, because we are the ones who make the final decision and we need help from you. Mrs. Wilder. Is the testimony you are about to give the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Wilder: It is. Corrie: Name and address please. Wilder: Janet Wilder, 3340 N. Ten Mile Road. I had one little thought. As you are considering this new Comprehensive Plan and the north Meridian plan, the other night I was in Boise for one of my granddaughter’s concerts. And as I drove home I couldn’t help but notice – well actually I stopped at the mall after the concert. It was pretty dead there. Then as I drove home I couldn’t help but notice all the businesses and how little traffic, how little cars there were at those businesses, so I am wondering, I couldn’t help but think, how is this going to look when Meridian builds out? We already have this problem in Boise. And if Meridian builds all these commercial areas expecting the people to use them, are we going to have the same problem as Boise? That is something I wanted you to think about. Maybe the next time you go to Boise, you might check that out. Corrie: Just a snapshot in time that you happened to be there, I have probably been to the same place and there was a lot of cars and a lot of people. That is something you need to think about too. Wilder: it probably – this was on a Monday night, it wasn’t the weekend of course, I know the weekends are pretty busy. I think you can find that even at our Fred Meyer store – there just won’t be anyone in there. It is something to think about as you are considering the whole thing. Corrie: Definitely, thank you Janet. Does the Council have anything? Staff? Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, I would like to add one more thing about the mixed-use. The designations are suggestions, those uses that are shown on there, is not a guarantee that anyone who comes in, gets that approved. It is simply the items and uses that may be considered. But I just wanted to stress – I can see this coming after the Comprehensive Plan is finally adopted – everybody with a corner is going to come in and think they can plop down a convenience store there because it may be shown as one of the uses that may be considered. But that is not the case. They will have to come through with a planned development and the Council will have to review that for its merits, on a case-by-case basis. Meridian City Council Special Meeting March 6, 2002 Page 20 of 21 Corrie: There will be public testimony at that time as well, absolutely. Stiles: Yes, thank you. Corrie: Thank you. Then if that was the last of the testimony, I will entertain a motion to adjourn the continued Public Hearing for tonight. Bird: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: Mr. Mayor, I would move that we continue the Public Hearing on the Comprehensive Plan until March 20th , 2002 at 6:30 p.m. De Weerd: Second. Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded to continue this Public Hearing until March the 20th , 2002 at 6:30 p.m. Any further discussion? Nary: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: I thought we had talked at the last meeting, about talking about progress and how we wanted to do that. Do we want to do that March 20th ? Bird: That way they can give a little more to us, Mr. Mayor (inaudible). Nary: I just know we had talked about that, so I wanted to make sure for the folks that they heard that and that we are going to keep on track at least. Corrie: Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion say aye. Roll-Call: Bird, aye; De Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Nary, aye. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Corrie: Meeting adjourned at 7:45. De Weerd: That was the motion to continue – Would you like a motion to adjourn? Corrie: Oh, I took an executive privilege here that I didn’t really need to do. I have a motion and a second to adjourn. Any further discussion? Then all in favor say aye. Roll-Call: Bird, aye; De Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Nary, aye. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES MEETING ADJOURNED AT 7:45 P.M. Meridian City Council Special Meeting March 6, 2002 Page 21 of 21 (TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) APPROVED: / / ROBERT D. CORRIE, MAYOR DATE APPROVED WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., CITY CLERK