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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2002 02-12 SpecialMeridian City Council Special Meeting February 12, 2002 The special meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 5:30 P.M. on Tuesday, February 12, 2002, by Mayor Robert Corrie. Members Present: Mayor Robert Corrie, Keith Bird, Bill Nary, Cherie McCandless, and Tammy de Weerd. Others Present: Bill Nichols, Kenny Bowers, Brad Hawkins-Clark, Steve Siddoway, Gary Smith, Brad Watson, Shari Stiles, Joe Silva, Tom Kuntz, Mike Worley, and Will Berg. Item 1. Roll-call Attendance: X Tammy de Weerd X Bill Nary X Cherie McCandless X Keith Bird X Mayor Robert Corrie Corrie: We will have roll-call attendance please, Mr. Berg. Item #2. Adoption of the Agenda: Corrie: Item Number two for the special meeting is adoption of the agenda. This is a presentation and discussion of the North Meridian area plan with Mike and Jon Wardle. I will entertain a motion for the adoption of the agenda. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor Corrie: Mrs. De Weerd. De Weerd: I move we accept the agenda as presented. Nary: Second. Corrie: Motion is made and seconded to adopt the agenda. All those in favor of the motion say aye. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Item #3. Presentation/ Discussion for the North Meridian Area Plan Corrie: Mr. Wardle. Front and center, you’re on. By the way, thank you for the pizza. Wardle: You’re welcome. Staff and others will have – any of the folks that have to spend their time here deserve a little consideration. We appreciate the opportunity. I am going to spend a few minutes, kind of backgrounding and then be happy to enter into whatever discussion the Council desires. Each of you should have received three pieces of information. A little composite that gives a summary of what the effort is, the latest version of the foundation draft report dated January 30th , and then the latest version of the draft policy issues, also Meridian City Council Special Meeting February 12, 2002 Page 2 of 14 dated the 30th . Do you have those? I am going to talk in generalities about some of those issues but I wanted to start with some interesting feedback that we have had from both as a result of the 30th of January open house at meridian middle School and the meeting that we had last week. Just to bring the Ada County Planning Commission up to speed in as much as they deal with these issues in that as yet un-annexed area with in the area of impact. One interesting observation is that I am not certain that people, even some of those that have jurisdictional responsibilities understand what happens when a community and a county come to an agreement on an area of impact. The assumption is that there is an urban intent, under State law. Otherwise it would remain basically unincorporated rural, because an area of impact is essentially the community’s desired growth area over a period of years. With that in mind, it was interesting that several members of the Ada County Planning Commission essentially wanted to see this whole area remain rural. Wanted an agricultural and certainly a much lower density than what an urban development concept would suggest, which simply goes back then to the question of do we really know as participants in the process, as members of the appointed advisory boards and elected officials of the three jurisdictions dealing with the issue, what we are really about? I guess I would ask the question, for your consideration, just might even provoke some discussion, just what is it that Meridian desires to be within your area of impact. Do you want to form and create an urban community or are you looking for a semi-rural environment as the future outcome? I want to make a few comments that might be somewhat provocative, but I would suggest to you that the Comprehensive Plan draft that is currently before the Council, in some regards, is a semi-rural proposal. In fact, it – we talked often about sprawl. We talk about density in relationship to sprawl. Sprawl is a – I am not sure people have an accurate definition, as many people just interpret the natural growth of our communities as just sprawl, and I personally don’t. However if we are concerned about the efficient use of land, then we have to be concerned about the density. If we are proposing a low to mid-type density that has a lot of rural characteristics, then quite frankly we will consumer more land theoretically within an urban environment for far fewer units. A concept or implementation of the plan as its shown here suggests that this largely, that north Meridian would be a low to mid-density bedroom community. The service elements that are shown in the neighborhood proposals do not provide the level and opportunity for the convenience of – that is primarily a convenience level of service. There would be a very heavy trip generation with impacts on the infrastructure system, transportation infrastructure, because people that have to leave north Meridian to go to the major services, which are at this point and time in terms of Meridian, along the Fairview and Eagle Road corridor. And of course down toward the interstate at Meridian Road and now Main Street. I guess I am just wanting to make sure people stop and consider what the vision is for north Meridian in the context of your area of impact boundary. I would like to take a step back and talk about the genesis of this effort. There were applications submitted both to the city in terms of annexation and also to the county in three square miles of the area of north Meridian, lying essentially east of Ten mile and over to Meridian Road. Those particular applications caused the elected officials -- and at initially ACHD they hired the Washington Group to do a ten mile, excuse me six square mile study and I believe it was sometime in March of this year that this study was Meridian City Council Special Meeting February 12, 2002 Page 3 of 14 done, or at least a draft of it was out. That I think scared a lot of people to death. Looking at just shear numbers, assuming that if this all dropped on you today, of how many vehicle trips would be generated. Wanting not to look just a snapshot area, the highway district went back and I am assuming with encouragement from the city and perhaps the Ada County Commission as well, and had WGI expand that study to a 12 square mile area. Essentially everything north of Ustick Road up to Chinden and into the two sections that are somewhat shared with Boise and its western area of impact boundary. A result of that led to some conclusions – and Jonathan if you would reach back and just hand me that board, yes. This is a board that you have seen before when we had one of our sessions at COMPASS, but essentially, what they called a developers’ scenario was simply an extrapolation of the early development applications to a potential build-out within 20 years. I am not concerned frankly when the build-out occurs, I think the numbers are the interesting thing. WGI was looking at a build-out of nearly 16,000 dwelling units within the 10 miles between McDermott on the west and Locust Grove on the east, Ustick and Chinden. That overall density was somewhat less than three units per acres. Factoring out the public open spaces, the public schools, and other elements. What that also showed interestingly enough was if in fact we did have a build out at that density of 2.95 units per acre, 16,000 dwellings, there would be roughly 43,000 people within that 10 square mile area. We have suggested that in order to create the urban fabric and to sustain the types of services that make a community, that there ought to be a higher overall density and have suggested a minimum number. One way or the other there will be something over 16,000 residences in that area, and depending on the final build-out, somewhere up toward 20,000 with population ranging from 43 up to 50,000 plus. In context, according to the background information on the Comprehensive Plan draft of June of 2000, there were approximately 3,600 dwellings in Meridian in 1990. I think that projected up to 14,800 something by the year 2000. We are talking about numbers that frankly would double – it was many times the population of 1990, but it would certainly go toward doubling the population of Meridian at this point in time. I am not certain what your final 2000 census numbers were. As a result, the elected officials from the Highway District, Ada County, and this Council, met with the developers in June with the intent to at least look at a new way of development in a more concurrent way of providing community facilities and the transportation system in a broad scope analysis, rather than just a project-by-project basis. Hence, we have not tried to recreate the information that was provided by your staff and the consultants in the plan but we have added our own information and conclusions in the foundation report. In the policy, we have tried to carry forward some of those issues as to how we might go about implementing a plan for North Meridian that accomplishes some of the objectives. I just wanted to make a few comments about what the conclusion is expected to be. That would be potentially a land use overlay with specified development standards and incentives. I think incentives is the key because if we don’t create the opportunity to encourage what we want, then we will go through the process of essentially, project by project, very standard type of development patterns that we have seen in the past. I have heard from virtually of the elected officials that we want to see something different from what we have seen in the past. We are talking about going into detailed implementation policies that would reflect both in ordinance Meridian City Council Special Meeting February 12, 2002 Page 4 of 14 changes, potentially, and also agreements between the various entities that would include the park and pathway system, school site acquisition, public safety facilities and transportation improvements. One of the several keys in this discussion, the first building block of course, in order to do any type of development we have to get the infrastructure and the first point in that of course is the sanitary sewer system. Right now, the city is working on this first element between Ustick, McMillan, and the White Drain. Just to the north is the North Slough, with the extension of about a half-mile of additional trunk line in Ten Mile Road that opens up that tier to the north. We have suggested that one way to facilitate and assist is to allow two opportunities or options for sewer system expansion. One would be of course through the city initiated efforts. The second would be through a development-initiated program. Both are viable, and I think would help move some of these efforts along in a more expeditious manner. Second issue is that of drainage. The Highway District has done some studies and is now out for services for additional drainage studies that are focused at least at this point on the regional type solutions. Acreages that are consumed in pond systems, a lot of cost in terms of piping and so forth. We have suggested in our transportation concepts a method by which you can treat a lot of that in on- site facilities at least in the arterial system instead of collecting and having to transport waste waters to long distances. Its not saying that there won’t be some of those facilities but we think we can cut costs down by dealing with these issues. We are suggesting, and I will get to this a bit more in a moment, but the arterial system needs to be the minimum number of lanes possible to carry the traffic, but also to use the areas instead of having a mile of center turn lanes or even a two or four lane system. To cut those lanes down to the two or the four and use those areas along the arterial roadway which could be potentially up to eight such areas four hundred feet long in a bioswale (sic) system that takes care of a more on-site way. We have talked about community character and quality and I commend the parks folks for moving forward with the plan. I am assuming that that will be coming to the Council soon. We have suggest that while the effort to get the community park sites is certainly desirable and we understand the priority, we also encourage a more careful look at neighborhood parks, which is where the people really live and would have opportunities to use those facilities. There is consideration being given to that, although the question of how funding would occur is still up in the air. One of the biggest challenges that we found in talking with your various public safety providers is the way to get the fire stations on line. We have got – Jonathon, put up the other map on top of that, -- this land up concept, the city already has a fire station site located in this area. You have a fire station, the newest fire station is right here on Ten Mile and somewhere in this vicinity the city is looking to secure another location that would potentially provide the service for that North Meridian Area. The challenge is not the sites. The site is the easy component, an acre to two acres depending on the total scope of what is provided. The challenge is the way to fund those fire stations with the nearly million dollars in facility and 300 plus 1000 dollars in rolling stock to provide the safety coverage. That is a challenge that is facing that is going to have to be addressed. At this point in time, we are not making any suggestions or recommendations but I know your Fire Department is looking carefully at how that can happen. When we talked and looked at the transportation system – Jonathan if you would put up that other one and put it on Meridian City Council Special Meeting February 12, 2002 Page 5 of 14 that one, yes – the Washington Group study had identified the size and character of these various roadways. We have got on this particular map, circles that identify three or five lanes and so forth. What they have also suggested is because of the Ten Mile Interchange at this location. The assumption was that Ten Mile Road would be the connection between I-84 and potentially Highway 44 and Highway 16. In looking at the land use character, quite frankly, the realities of where a roadway crossing could probably occur on the river in the future, it was our suggestion that we look at Black Cat Road as that connection even though it is not a direct link to the Ten Mile Interchange. It is a direct link to Highway 16 and is more feasible than to be funding for another river crossing within a mile of the existing Linder crossings. That would put it about equal distance between Star Road and Linder Road. In doing so, again it helps us then focus on the fact that if it were over at Ten Mile, North Meridian would literally be cut in half by the two heaviest traffic corridors north and south within a mile. You would have a few square miles to the east and a few to the west but you would lose the cohesiveness of that community, potentially. Linder, although it connects though, doesn’t have that link on the other end so it primarily the entree into the community from the north side of the river currently and it doesn’t have quite the same impact as a potential interstate to Highway 16 route does. It was interesting that – well there is certainly a lot of activity, looking at those alignments through the COMPASS Organization, so it’s a timely discussion that needs to happen. That issue along with Chinden, of course are the two prime through elements of North Meridian, even though Chinden is on the north flank, it literally still serves that area as the means to get into Canyon County to the west or Boise to the east. In looking at subsets of the system, we were concerned about the character of the neighborhoods and David if you will hand me that – ACHD had done a study that had suggested there needed to be continuous collectors. We are suggesting that the character of the neighborhoods is really dependant upon not further subdividing into quadrants, but to determine where the traffic volumes require a collector over a local standard and see that that occurs. Certainly have connectivity within the interior but don’t necessarily subdivide these neighborhoods down to a point that now you have an arterial system on the outside you have to dodge and an internal system of less traffic but nevertheless a fairly intense – De Weerd: Mike, excuse me, but can you turn that so staff and the people behind you can see it? Wardle: We can do that. I’ll put that over there in just a second. The other – Jon why don’t you put it on the one to the left there – the other issue is access control. Transportation Department has along Chinden Boulevard established access controls and suggests at the very best that there would be one point of access along these corridors at least along Chinden Boulevard. Then we are suggesting and certainly its not a perfect world and it won’t be achievable in all cases, but to limit the primary access points on the other roadways – McMillan, even Ustick and the north south routes to a few primary points. Then require internal access to all elements that would be both in terms of services on the periphery as well as to the community inside. Our concern there is just the character of the neighborhoods themselves. With regard then to the final Meridian City Council Special Meeting February 12, 2002 Page 6 of 14 element of the foundation report, was the concern for establishing a hierarchy for commercial and services. We have suggested through the land use concept a four tier – well it’s a four-element hierarchy that begins with regional land use elements along Chinden Boulevard and along Black Cat as the two principal through corridors in north Meridian. The second tier is community level and that would be on Linder Road because of the north south connection through the area from Eagle. Then you get to what we call the neighborhood element, which would be the other arterial roadway locations. Then finally between all of these we have what we call the village scale. The village intent basically takes the concept that the staff had come up with on the neighborhood centers and suggests that you could within any of these areas have the opportunity to propose a neighborhood center that would serve the most local types of needs that would occur within north Meridian. Now some people have suggested that what this is doing is opening these up to strip development for commercial services and the like and that is frankly not the case. The requirements would be that mixed use would have to meet the certain requirements and yes, we would suggest that there be opportunities to focus most of those elements toward the intersections. These center elements, the village level, are going to be small, if and where they exist and they’re primarily oriented toward incorporation them within the residential components of the neighborhood. Now we are not suggesting that we have 100 percent of the answer. As yet we were hoping still to get some input from the community and those that are professionally involved both on the public side as well as the private, to be certain that we provide first the flexibility but then secondly, encourage the types of mixed-use development - - that we leave what the elected officials want to achieve in North Meridian. The reality is that even though the map suggests and shows some fairly major areas, if you read carefully what we have provided, you actually have land use or excuse me, the residential components within these, could be as low as three units per acre. It could be as high as 20 units per acre component in that regional area. We are suggesting that this would be primarily – I bet if we kept this intact, when it finally builds out, you would have more residential land than you would other types of uses, because the market place and the investors in commercial will only build what the market will support. These folks that invest these types of resources are very careful to make their choices on first location then secondly the market. You have to remember that substantially the market out here is going to be, if we were just using this alone, a significant population base. I guess I would like to conclude by saying that the intent for the concepts put forward thus far are to create an opportunity to change the character. Not totally, of what Meridian is – because I think Meridian is still going to be largely a single-family residential area but to make possibility for mixing the residential uses even and encouraging it for that matter. It may not actually be a not, but we have said the minimum density of any project would have to be three units per acre, minimum. It may need to be higher. Within that context, everything that would show up in the residential component would be able to come in as long as it had a minimum of three units per acre. It could go as high as eight units per acre without having to go to a Conditional Use Permit. We are talking about the flexibility and encouragement for people to start mixing the uses, getting moderate to higher density neighborhoods established with in that area. At the same time, the hierarchy of the village, again which is the most basic element of Meridian City Council Special Meeting February 12, 2002 Page 7 of 14 this. The village is intended to be small up to five acres in size for services that would be located at or near the midsection points. That could also include residential uses of three to eight units per acre. The neighborhood components then at the next tier up would be 5 to 15 acres in size, residential uses of up to 8 units per acre, with potentially 55 to 160,000 square feet of building area that would include possibly your grocery stores and so forth that get down toward where people really need them. The next level of course, the community, which right now is designated on the Linder Road element, would be in the 15 to 20 acre size for any shopping facilities. Up to 275,000 square feet and residential uses of up to 15 units per acre, with some restrictions on how close you could have anything of less than eight units per acre that close to those intersections. Then the same thing at the regional level, either up on Chinden or on Black Cat. The regional would have potential more than 25 acres in size. It could be major retail and it could be a business or a tech research park. The intent there is to have both employment and commercial opportunities and this again would be in areas where you would encourage the highest density development. One of the things that occurs and frankly, why I don’t really believe that you would see a lot of high density residential, even though we would like to encourage that mixture, is the patience. There is only a segment of the market that will be available or consumed – absorbed as it were, for those types of uses. The same thing, patience will be necessary for some of the larger scale service and commercial components. Some of that will obviously follow the development patterns rather than proceed or become current I think Mr. Mayor and council members. I have taken perhaps too much time but I would certainly be willing to discuss any of these issues. I would hope that we can exchange some of your thoughts as well. Corrie: Thank you, Mike. Questions from Council? Bird: I don’t have any. Corrie: I am sure staff may have a few questions. Am I correct or are you still under advisement? Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, we do feel that we need additional time to review this in order to give you a complete report. We would also like to schedule a meeting with Mr. Wardle and Jonathan to go over some of these issues that we may not necessarily need to go over in this forum at this time, but try to come to an understanding of what they have in mind and what our issues are without picking it apart tonight. We understood that this was going to be presentation, a more formal presentation than what the open house had. We still haven't reached a consensus on the plan of course. This is still in the beginning stages at least, as far as we are concerned it is. We are a little concerned about maybe the process is a little backwards as far as coming up with a map and then doing the development standards. I am sure that we can all discuss that and he can relieve some of our fears about that. It is going to take a considerable amount of staff time. Unfortunately when the map was drawn, staff did not have the opportunity to be there due to a short notice and the fact that Christmas came in that time period between when we were noticed and when the meeting was for the land use portion of this map when this map was developed. Hopefully you Meridian City Council Special Meeting February 12, 2002 Page 8 of 14 have all received Ed Starkey’s report about the neighborhood centers. We do have a real fear that with the designation of all this mixed use and commercial areas -- every intersection with some kind of commercial, that it would absolutely kill the neighborhood center concept. I don’t know if we can be brought to go to their way of thinking on some of that. We would be willing to discuss everything and open that dialogue. We don’t really feel that we have had enough time to give input on this and make it feel more like it was the City of Meridian project too instead of maybe the county and the developers. I think a lot of the foundation report is great. The policies are great, I kind of have to play devil’s advocate like I do on every project and see how it might be used in a not so great way. As far as some of the uses that are proposed and the definitions, without standards in place, and I know that is part of the whole process, but if the standards aren't in place first, there is not reason to have designations of land area. What I fear with great variety of uses that will be permitted according to these land use definitions, that everybody on the corner will sell it off for a convenience store and a gas station with a drive through fast food facility and I guess I am hoping that Mr. Wardle and Associates can belay our fears there. We already do have a lot of requests and even as part of the public hearing process for the Comprehensive Plan, we had requests from people that might have an acre or two acres on a corner that they want to develop right now and they want to develop it commercially. I guess it really involves getting down to the standards part of it and how this is going to be implemented and the time of that. I guess we are not able to voice all of that tonight. I know Brad and Steve have both reviewed. Steve has a list of questions – I don’t know if it is appropriate, do you want him to bring those up here, or wait until we have had a chance to meet with them? Corrie: Mike, do you see any real dead head footing here that could be worked out with some of the concerns that they have and the concerns the developer has – can we probably get together and work on some of those? Wardle: Mr. Mayor I appreciate the opportunity to respond because we are still looking for input. We actually set up kind of a formal provide a period of input that ends in several days but there is nothing magic about that and we welcome the opportunity to sit down with staff and go through that. I agree it’s probably not appropriate to go through that tonight because I would like to see some of their thoughts and comments so that we have an opportunity to prepare as well. Let me just respond to a couple things. I think the way to discourage precisely what Shari was talking about, and that is to have every corner pop up commercial is to require a mixed use concept where people are going to be – and I am not saying that every project would end up being mixed use. Those that would not probably have to go through a more laborious effort than those that do come in with what you would like to achieve. For instances, instead of allowing someone to come in with just an acre or two, make them get into an assemblage process with somebody that starts to put together the fabric of community. I clearly would be as concerned if I thought that this was nothing more than just opening up these corners for convenience stores and gas stations. I am not interested in having my initials or name on any of that as well. I think what we are suggesting is that if we get into a program that requires Meridian City Council Special Meeting February 12, 2002 Page 9 of 14 mixed use proposal then we are going to see something more than just a straight commercial or straight residential and we start to see opportunities to bring projects. Quite frankly the efforts that have been – its on the map back there, those initial project proposals actually are a reasonable start to bring together not only residential but they have got proposals for commercial and services and schools, parks and all of these things are starting to come together and I frankly don’t fault what the initial concepts are. I think lets get it into a framework so we can all deal with it and see what is going to happen on the periphery. So I appreciate and look forward frankly to the opportunity to visit with staff in a more direct discuss. I think we would have any of the – we have involved and invited staff to participate and they have to large extent. We have also included the other planning elements from Ada County and the Highway District as participants. The smart growth and the University of Idaho Urban Research Center have been participants. A lot of good ideas have come from them in concert with the private sector consultants. Really the next step and the critical step I would suggest and its really not backwards because you have to come up with concepts before you can put the implementation tools together. I guess I would also suggest that in your Comprehensive Plan that staff has already provided an extensive list of action items that have to take place. The standards are not there but it’s talking about the types of things that are required to get the implementation. That is precisely the process that we are involved with here so we look forward to that opportunity and hopefully they can give us some ideas that will strengthen and solidify this. Maybe we can help them understand to a greater extent how this is really not a threat to the fabric of the community as well. Nary: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: I guess it is more just a comment. Mr. Wardle, I really do like a lot of the policies and plan and the makeup with this development plan. I think there are a lot of pluses to the city for it. I am a little concerned to some degree on the density issue because I understand the rational behind it. I understand that that density is probably necessary to support that level of commercial for that area. That density has to get built first before that commercial gets there, and then those people are coming in here and saying how come you are letting all those houses get built. That is my concern, because I did hear you say that commercial area on Linder was 15 units per acre approximately higher by the regional area. I guess that just concerns me. That is fairly significant density for a community that – I guess it’s just scary. We are not there yet. We have lots and lots of discussions before we get there. It is just a real concern for me before we get into this plan that this level of density is pretty significant. That doesn’t sound like a small neighborhood bedroom suburban family community like you said at the beginning. That just concerns me a bit. Wardle: Mr. Mayor, may I speak to Mr. Nary? Just remember we are not saying that it has to be, we are saying that densities may go up to that. It’s not mandated that they be there except that you can’t put the single family elements Meridian City Council Special Meeting February 12, 2002 Page 10 of 14 right back up to those major intersections where we frankly know the traffic is going to be the heaviest. That is really the big concern. You can still have low to medium density elements in there but you have an opportunity to go higher if you choose to do so and can incorporate that into some type of a project that would make it -- integrate it rather than separate it. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. De Weerd. De Weerd: I guess we all have certain thoughts on going into this, what all we will find. I think we will get there. I don’t think we are all that far off, although, you see this and it’s the same concern that we have in looking at the Comp Plan. What will the market bear, and you are asking people to take a lot of risk. If it doesn’t turn out that way, what will it turn into? That is what we have to concern ourselves with too. In reading the report from Ed Starkey, it does kind of give you pause when you start looking at the mass of land use that you are putting toward retail and that sort of thing, without looking at infrastructure. Or we talk about a high tech park. Do we have adequate infrastructure up in that area to support that kind of thing? There is a lot more in-depth background that we need to look at. Setting standards, definitions, and incentives, in my opinion, should come before you start putting something on a map and showing an economic feasibility that can support that, because these developers aren't going to want to buy into something that they don’t thing the market is going to support. If we go into it developing these standards and definitions and all of that, and we see that the market wont support it, what good is this plan? What good is all the buy in when it’s not realistic? So a lot of that needs to be done up front. I think we are very anxious to see how it’s all going to work out. I think you need to do more. I like your ideas on drainage and using, it means more detached sidewalks, which I am very much in support of and certainly don’t want my kids walking on arterial with an attached sidewalk. It makes a lot more sense. So a lot of the ideas are great, and actually they are not far off from the ideas that our staff has as far as the Comprehensive Plan, but we need to find a way, and hopefully with that dialogue with our staff, we can integrate them together and start talking the same language. I think you are. It’s just that we are still out there and trying to understand what each other’s definitions are. Now in the Comp Plan process I have been talking – I like your definitions of your areas. I don’t necessarily like the circles, or I would like to learn more about them, but I like how you defined it. Again, I think we are pretty much on the same page. How is it going to work? Is the market going to support this? How far can we go on those definitions before we can really establish a map like that? Wardle: Mr. Mayor, Mrs. De Weerd, I guess we need to be careful because I am not necessarily calling these out as commercial areas. That is not what our intent is. I consider these opportunity areas to talk about the scale of uses that can occur depending on how the market place reacts to them. I am not – I don’t think that I am proposing that they be called commercial corners or nodes – they are a mixed-use designation that says you can have a combinations of services, retail, employment and residential and it simply sets thresholds as to how that Meridian City Council Special Meeting February 12, 2002 Page 11 of 14 would occur. The reality, most of that land that shows up in those scary circles and corridors will be residential. I think what we are trying to do is create an opportunity to change the character of what has happened up to this point. I am not criticizing but when you look at the landscape of your last 10 years worth of development that goes up to literally Ustick Road, its very uniform. There is not much in the way of services in those areas. Now it’s a nice bedroom community, so that goes back to my initial question. De Weerd: I sure wish you would stop using that – Wardle: Bedroom community? It’s a reality it is a reality. De Weerd: Well it is, and that is the concern that even Councilman Nary brought up, is we all realize that you have to build residential before you get the other in there, and will you really get the other in there? Wardle: Let me just illustrate – right now – Jonathan would you take down our concept and leave the other up there – right now I would suggest to you that what you have project for North Meridian, are conveniences – (end of side). Lets hypothesize, because there are people in the commercial community that are already aware that if you are talking about 43 to 50,000 people that they are going to be services out there – more than what is showing up on that map. Do you wait until someone comes in without any warning and you adopt something like this, and then somebody puts together the land and comes in says we want to do a Comprehensive Plan change. You would find yourselves dealing with that just the same way that you are with section 34 right now. I think if we put on the map, the opportunities and simply say that within the context of this hierarchy, these land uses, that you can do certain things, but then we are going to have an opportunity and people won’t be as surprised. We might all be a bit disappointed that some things wont occur that we would hope. The reality is, right now, you have got a lot of surprise headed down the line for north Meridian, because that does not provide the level of service or even employment opportunities that likely will happen there in the future. You’ll be going back to amend your Comprehensive Plan and you are going to be dealing with a map that suggests that right now you have got very low density in this area, and somebody says this is Chinden Boulevard, we want to do a major employment center. Its on a state highway, potentially it could be another north/south connection here or here, we want to do something that is a serious benefit to the community. Your Comprehensive Plan doesn’t show it and then we have to go through that process. We are saying lets give people notice of the opportunities that may exist there. I was Planning Director for the City of Boise when Hewlett Packard came to town. Who could have conceived such a facility? We had, we were the largest concentration west of the Mississippi for mobile home manufacturing before we got into the high tech business. Quite frankly, I think that that type of use was far fetched and it went to a location that nobody had anticipated before but those are things that we need to keep in mind that we don’t want to preclude. We have simply said that there is a framework within which the opportunity exists to do that. Lets make that opportunity available. Clearly, we want to get into a longer discussion. We will deal with staff, see if we Meridian City Council Special Meeting February 12, 2002 Page 12 of 14 can help articulate this a little more clearly, come up with better definitions and certainly head directly into the standards and implementation tools that are necessary to make whatever you, Ada County and the Highway District folks would like to accomplish out there, a reality. De Weerd: Again, I don’t think we are off track – I don’t think the philosophies are different. I think just getting there and getting to the table will be one thing but also I anticipated at some point, are we going to get a better understanding of how the infrastructure, and I am not just talking water and sewer, how those partnerships and how those improvements will be a part of this plan? How they will take place, the timing, and those kinds of things. I think the city has been very interested in that particular component, and I think that is why we came to the table to begin with, because of those concerns. I don’t know where they play within the process but I – Wardle: Mr. Mayor, Mrs. De Weerd, that is the next step, is to get the partnerships and definitions together so that we can go to the various entities and it all has to dove tail, because decisions made by one entity affect the others. That is actually the next step – to get some of those ideas on the table and defined and particularly with the Highway District since they have the transportation system. Well, Mr. Mayor, it looks like our hour is about gone. We appreciate the opportunity. Corrie: Well, thank you, Mike. Mrs. De Weerd. De Weerd: Can I ask one more question? Did you get some good solid feedback from your open house? Wardle: There is a file in there called response – we are getting some good feedback and frankly a lot of it focuses on the issue of section thirty four, the Waste Water Treatment Plant. De Weerd: Really? Wardle: Yes. Bird: We can’t believe that, Mike. Wardle: But actually, we do have comments – some have come back via email and we have received written comments from some of the agencies as well in response. We are getting – but I don’t know that we will ever get enough to really have a complete picture of what people are thinking. Clearly it is a good start. De Weerd: Are there common threads in the thoughts? Wardle: I think the common that I have seen is that people like the idea of a different type of community but they have – some of them have similar concerns. One of them said, let me just find this. It was an email that I thought was, without Meridian City Council Special Meeting February 12, 2002 Page 13 of 14 identifying the individual, as she indicated that she did not attend but received the pamphlet and had seen the map -- I feel the plan is workable. Especially for what you proposed for this particular location – and it relates to this same issue we just talked about, any way she says but the concern is it shows a lot of businesses. Well that is what people need to understand. Those businesses, those designations are not necessarily suggesting that that is going to be all businesses. We have got to do a better job of getting people to understand that these are simply areas that allow a range of uses and they are subject to a certain limit on the types and the thresholds. So it’s type and size. Anyway, we are getting some good feedback and hopefully we will get an opportunity to articulate some of these with staff and get closer to addressing their concerns as well. De Weerd: I do appreciate finally seeing a map of how we will connect up to Black Cat and the interchange – that was really nice. Wardle: You know, one just aside, we had not only the comment sheets, but we had sheets out of each station for instant comments. There was one that said don’t preclude the possibility of Black Cat connecting directly to the interstate. I assume but I am not even going to get into that. That is a major transportation issue that the COMPASS folks are going to have to look at, and if in fact its Ten Mile and eventually Robinson Road, they are not that far away. You can still make those connections without an undue deviation. Some good feedback. Corrie: Mike, thank you for the presentation. I think with the partnership that you have done and brought together, the developers and the city, I think we can work it out. It will really be a benchmark for this whole area, so again, thank you, and if we can have you and the staff get together and work on some of these items that we had trouble with – thank you very much. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. De Weerd. De Weerd: Can we set a time frame so that Mr. Wardle and the development community kind of know what kind of time frame they will be meeting our staff and getting that kind of feedback from them? Corrie: We probably already have it pretty set -- De Weerd: I know we get together again in March, but we probably want to do this before then. Wardle: Oh absolutely, we will. Just as soon as I get back from the Olympics, which will be Sunday. De Weerd: I will wave at you. Meridian City Council Special Meeting February 12, 2002 Page 14 of 14 Wardle: But we will get together with staff next week because we want to be able to make some positive reports to all the sponsoring stakeholders on the 4th of March. De Weerd: Does that work with staff? Well it has to. Corrie: It will work. Shari has got her mind on other things until Friday, so she can make it work. Okay. It is 6:30, so I will entertain a motion to close the Special Workshop Agenda with the presentation with the North Meridian Area Plan. De Weerd: I move we close the special meeting. Bird: Second. Corrie: Okay. Motion made and seconded. All those in favor say aye. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES MEETING ADJOURNED AT 6:30 P.M. (TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) APPROVED: / / ROBERT D. CORRIE, MAYOR DATE APPROVED WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., CITY CLERK