HomeMy WebLinkAbout2002 02-05Meridian City Council Meeting February 5, 2002
The regularly scheduled meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at
6:30 P.M., Tuesday, February 5, 2002, by Mayor Robert D. Corrie.
Members Present: Mayor Robert Corrie, Tammy de Weerd, Keith Bird, Cherie
McCandless and William Nary.
Others Present: William Nichols, Mike Worley, Gary Smith, Shari Stiles, Brad Watson,
Will Berg, Ken Bowers, Tom Kuntz, and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
__X__ Tammy de Weerd __X__ Bill Nary
__X__Cherie McCandless __X__ Keith Bird
__X__ Mayor Robert Corrie
Corrie: Okay. It's 6:33. I'm going to open the City Council regular meeting for Tuesday,
February 5, 2002, in the Council Chambers. Role call of attendance, please, Mr. Berg.
Item 2: Adoption of the Agenda:
Corrie: Okay. Thank you. I want to welcome the public this evening for being here. We
have got a little better weather for you tonight than we did the last meeting, so --
Council, Item No. 2, the Adoption of the Agenda. Do you have any changes that you
would like to change at this time?
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: On the Consent Agenda we had a -- we'd like to table Item C -- or D, I mean, of
the Five Mile Trunk Latecomer Agreement until February 19, 2002, so the attorney and
Public Works can get together. Item No. E, the applicant has asked that we table that to
March 19, 2002. Item G, there is some things we need to discuss. We'd like to move it
to Item 5-G on the regular agenda. And item M, I'd like to see that pulled to 4-A-3, so
Brad can discuss what is going on with this and, other than that, if nobody else has
anything else, I'd make a motion to approve the Adoption of the Agenda.
Corrie: Okay. We may have one more.
Bird: Okay.
Nary: Item O.
Bird: Item O?
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February 5, 2002
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Nary: The chief has that separately on the revised --
Bird: Oh. Okay. Yes. Item O -- he didn't want to? Just leave it?
Worley: Mr. Mayor and Members of the Council, unless the Council has other
discussion they want to engage in. --
Bird: I don't know of --
Corrie: Okay. One other thing, chief. Do you have all the signatures on J, the beer and
wine license for the Whitewater Pizza? In our packets there was only two signatures,
yours and one other. But I guess the City Clerk would be the one I should ask on that.
I'm sorry.
Berg: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, on Item J, the beer and wine license
application, the most important one is the chief of police, but I always have signature on
the other ones in case there is some compliance issues that they made need to look at.
I got no response, so --
Corrie: Okay. That's fine. If the Council will have patience with me. Okay. Any other
changes? Okay. Do I hear a second to -- sorry, Mrs. Stiles.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, could we take F off the agenda, just for clarification of
some of the issues in the findings?
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would change my motion, then, to make -- pull Item F to the regular agenda of
item 5-F.
Corrie: Okay.
De Weerd: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and second. Any further discussions or report?
Okay. Hearing none, adopt of the agenda, then. All those in favor say aye. Opposed no.
All ayes. Motion is carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Item 3: Consent Agenda:
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February 5, 2002
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A. Approve minutes from November 8, 2001 Special Joint Meeting
with Ada County Commissioners / ACHD Commissioners:
B. Approve minutes from January 15, 2002 Regular City Council
Meeting:
C. Approve minutes from January 22, 2002 Regular City Council
Meeting:
D. Tabled from January 15, 2002: Five Mile Trunk Latecomer
Agreement:
E. Tabled from December 4, 2001: Order Granting Appeal: AP 01-
00 Stop Work Order at 2340 West Franklin Road by Walt Morrow:
F. Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law for Approval:
VAR 01-012 Request for a Variance to the Landscape Ordinance
for Elixir Properties Subdivision by Paul Clayton - 521 North Eagle
Road:
G. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP
01-028 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a fast food
restaurant with drive-thru in a C-G zone for proposed Wendy's by
Wenco, Inc. - northwest intersection of Corporate Drive and East
First Street:
H. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: AZ 01-
019 Request for annexation and zoning of 4.25 acres from RUT to
C-N zones for LDS Church by Larry Maurer - south of EastFranklin
Road and east of South Locust Grove:
I. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP
01-038 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for the development
of an LDS Church in a C-N zone for LDS Church by Larry Maurer –
south of East Franklin Road and east of South Locust Grove Road:
J. Approve Application for Beer / Wine License by Donn Wilson for
MRPC Meridian LLC dba Whitewater Pizza and Pasta at 1510 N.
Eagle Road:
K. South Slough Sewer Temporary Construction Easement:
L. Ten Mile Interchange Sewer Study - J-U-B Engineers:
M. Woodbridge Subdivision No. 2 Off-Site Water Line Project -
Agreement for Professional Services:
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February 5, 2002
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N. Approve Bills:
O. Police Department Organization Plan:
Corrie: Item 3, is the consent agenda. I'd entertain a motion, then, for the consent
agenda.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would move that we approve the consent agenda as noted on the Adoption of the
agenda with the changes.
McCandless: Second.
Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded to approve the consent agenda with the
corrections adopted from the agenda. Any further discussion?
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I think Mr. Berg could just note for Item 3-A, the approval for the minutes of
November 8th, special joint meeting of the Ada County Commissioners, that I would
prefer to be listed as an abstention on that. I was not present at that meeting, nor a
member of the Council at that time.
Corrie: Okay. Any further discussion? Okay. Mr. Berg, roll call vote on the consent
agenda.
Role Call: Bird, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Nary, aye.
Corrie: All ayes. Motion is carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Item 4: Department Reports:
A. Public Work's Department - Gary Smith / Brad Watson:
1. Request for water and sewer hookup for Shannon
Chaney at 2770 North Locust Grove Road:
Corrie: Item 4 is the Public Works Department. Gary Smith / Brad Watson.
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February 5, 2002
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Smith: Mr. Mayor and Council Members, Item 4-A, No. 1, request for water and sewer
hookup for Shannon Chaney at 2770 North Locust Grove Road, by telephone message
on the 30th of January she withdrew her request to connect sewer and water.
Chaney: No, I didn't.
Smith: You didn't? I'm sorry. I have a phone request -- a phone message here from
Bruce Stewart that stated that you were not going to go forward with it, because of the
cost.
Chaney: I have all my stuff right here.
Smith: Okay. My mistake, Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Okay.
Smith: There is a -- there is a provision that Public Works director can approve of the
connection for a single family home to sewer and water. I don't know if Mrs. Chaney
wants to discuss costs or if you were here to discuss this request at all.
Chaney: I was just told that I had to be here.
Corrie: Ms. Chaney, I need to have you come up here, because we have a
stenographer taking this. If you could just identify yourself and then we can ask the
questions if we need to.
Chaney: I'm Shannon Chaney and they just told me I needed to be here. I don't know
why, but they just said I needed to be here. I am working on my annexation request, so
I don't know what they wanted me to be here for.
Corrie: Okay.
De Weerd: It sounds like it was a good thing you were.
Smith: Certainly is.
Corrie: Okay. Thank you.
Chaney: Thank you.
Corrie: So --
Smith: She is working on her annexation request, which is part of the agreement that
we would need to draw up between the city and Ms. Chaney, so -- I'm not sure if our
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February 5, 2002
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City attorney has any comments to make in regards to when this connection would be
made and I'm not sure when the connection needs to be made.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Mr. Smith -- and maybe Mrs. Chaney can answer this, but I did note there is a
letter in here from Brad Hawkins-Clark with the planning department basically laying
out kind of how this works and that if a person wants to hook up prior to being annexed,
that at least in the past, unless the Council has considered this a necessity or
emergency of some sort or something -- and I don't see any other information as to
what the reason is? It would be simpler just to wait for the annexation to occur, if that's
what happens, let that process take its course and I don't know if you have an answer
to that, but maybe Mrs. Chaney does.
Smith: I don't, Councilman Nary.
Nary: It would seem to me if we would simply wait until the annexation happens and just
let it follow its course like it normally should.
Smith: Right.
Corrie: Mrs. Chaney, is that -- you're not in a big hurry to have your water before the
annexation; is that correct? Are you wanting the annexation along with the water or do
you need to have the water before the annexation? You got it starting now.
Chaney: Well, yes, but it was just explained to me that -- that everything was kind of
coincided, that as I'm being annexed I get permission for the water and sewer and so
on and so forth and that -- yes. I wouldn't say it's not an emergency. I'm just trying to get
hooked up.
Corrie: Okay. Yes. Let's follow that procedure, then, and Gary can take that into
consideration on the annexation and the water and all that can be done at the time
then.
Chaney: Okay. Thank you.
Corrie: Thank you.
2. White Drain Trunk Sewer Permanent and Temporary
Construction Easement - John Kennedy:
Smith: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Council. The next item I will have Brad Watson discuss
with you.
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February 5, 2002
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Watson: Mr. Mayor and Council Members, the next item is a request for a sewer
easement for the White Drain Trunk Sewer. The sewer would be on Mr. John Kennedy's
property. As you will note in the memo that I hope is in your packet this time, is that
there is an existing easement that traverses the northern part of his property. He signed
that in early July, it was approved by the Council July 12th of last year. Between then
and now Mr. Kennedy has requested that we provide him an easement that
corresponds to a future subdivision layout. This property is immediately west of the
proposed Cedar Springs Project. The very last sheet in that packet is a sketch that
shows the relationship of the proposed Cedar Springs Project and Mr. Kennedy's
proposed layout. That layout was not engineered, it was a sketch that was just provided
to him, I believe, perhaps, by the Cedar Springs consultant. The original easement was
signed and approved by Council with no payment for the right of way and no other
consideration. This revised easement, Mr. Kennedy would -- requesting payment for
the easement that corresponds with the appraisal that we had done on the original
easement. The original easement was in the neighborhood of half an acre. The revised
easement is .87 acres. The long and short of it is either alignment technically will work.
The revised one may have some minor advantages over the initially approved one. Mr.
Kennedy is in the audience tonight and first I would take -- be happy to answer any
questions and he's here if you would want to ask him any questions as well.
Corrie: Council, any questions of Brad?
Bird: Not right now, Mayor.
Corrie: Okay. Mr. Kennedy, are you here?
Kennedy: I would like you to know that I'm very hard of hearing and if I don't understand
you, I will ask my son to tell me what you asked.
Corrie: Okay. Anybody have any questions of Mr. Kennedy or --
Bird: I don't have any, Mayor.
Corrie: Anybody have any -- Bill?
Nary: Mr. Mayor. Mr. Kennedy, what's the reason you want us to move this easement?
Kennedy: The Cedar Springs Subdivision -- right there. When they requested that they
be allowed to build in there, the right of way that they suggested was -- would make my
land landlocked and so they agreed at that point that they would allow access to my
land through the proposed road there and that they would stub the end in the sewer and
water and have the gas company and the electric, whatever they do do, to have it
stubbed out there for future to my land and that presently the land is not being farmed,
because I haven't been able to find a renter the last year or so. Before that it was
farmed and I intend to continue to have it farmed as soon as I can get a renter. The --
that road that they had given me access to my land is in relationship to the Cedar
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February 5, 2002
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Springs Subdivision, if the -- which the sewer line will be coming down, if they just go
right straight across of my property there, then if and when my land is ever subdivided
there will be a benefit there, because there will be enough of the land behind the sewer
line that you can put a row of lots in there and then on the other side it can be
subdivided in a manner that would be beneficial and that I feel that the sewer crossing
my land is a benefit to those people also and that it will be a detriment to me for
farming. However, with the idea that maybe in the future it would be -- make my land
more valuable, then that would -- I would accept that fact there and the sewer as it goes
across mine there, it extends for almost an 8th of a mile across the land and it will be no
additional expense to install the sewer line there than it would be if it was installed
where it had been originally along the canal bank. As a matter of fact, it might be much
easier for them to do it, because of the dirt that's been dug out of the canal and all this
and that and Idaho state law provides for a payment that is agreeable, you know,
between the parties for the land itself -- for usage of the land itself and the agreement
that Brad has drawed up and which I signed is agreeable with me and as long as it's
agreeable with the City Council, then I guess we have a contract for crossing the land
and basically that's where I stand on this thing and I don't want to delay the sewer, you
know, being put in in any way anymore than necessary, you know, to get the sewer
across my --
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Mr. Kennedy, though, what I'm hearing you saying is that it's not going to cost
anymore, but it's actually going to cost almost 10,000 dollars more when we already
have an easement. You already gave the City an easement to build that sewer across
your property; correct?
Kennedy: I gave the sewer company an easement to cross -- the right to cross my land,
but I never gave them the land.
Nary: Well, you're not giving us the land here either. All you're giving us is an easement,
but we are paying 10,000 dollars for something we already have.
Kennedy: Well, I don't see it that way, sir.
Nary: Okay.
Kennedy: When the fellow came out on -- and I think his name was Caldwell -- I'm not
sure. Anyhow, when he came out and talked to me about the land, you know, to cross
the land, I said, well, I had no big objection to them crossing the land, as long as
crossing the land went, and I asked him then what was the payment -- the acreage --
the land has been appraised out at close to 36,000 dollars and so as I understand the
way that the agreement -- the law provides for is half of that is cut in half and then it's
cut in half again and that amounts to 9,550 dollars and that -- and at that time he
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indicated that that would come up later, but then -- I don't know, you know, as far as the
payment of the land goes. It's the -- it's in you people's ballpark now and I have signed
the contract, they have went out and drilled a well on the land there approximately
where the sewer is to go through and I think they were testing for groundwater and that
and so that's where it stands now and I -- and that's the way I feel. Any other
questions?
Corrie: No. Thank you.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Brad, Mr. Kennedy signed an agreement last June or July, didn't he, for the
easement that had no compensation?
Watson: Councilman Bird, Mayor, and Council Members, that's correct. It was -- the
form and format was identical to this one, with the exception of the payment and the
location of the easement.
Bird: Who did we have out there getting these easements that he was telling us that
come up with the money?
Watson: Keller and Associates is our consultant who was doing easement acquisition at
the time. They were the ones that met with each property owner along the way. At the
time when he first began in negotiation and until now we haven't paid for any
easements. The whole premise was to get donation of those easements and except for
one --
Bird: When did we decide that we needed to change the easement location and then
this was redone or did we decide that?
Watson: Councilman Bird, we didn't decide that we needed to. The sewer will work in
either location. This was done at Mr. Kennedy's request and I agree -- I met with Mr.
Kennedy five or six times over the last four to five months and I have told him that I
would bring it before you for your consideration. If that property develops in a similar
manner to Cedar Springs, it ultimately would probably line up better, but we don't know
that it will develop in that manner.
Bird: Is that -- is it not -- when that development goes in and stuff and if they don't give
an easement, that land will be land locked, won't it, if they don't have a --
Watson: Councilman Bird, I'm not quite sure I understand. The sewer is going to go
through that property --
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February 5, 2002
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Bird: I realize that, but I mean is this land not -- when Cedar Springs goes up, if they
don't put a road up there, isn't it land locked?
Kennedy: There is a right of way from the --
Bird: There is a right of way coming from the north down?
Kennedy: There is a dedicated right of way through there to provide -- which have --
Bird: Mr. Mayor, I'm like Mr. Nary, I don't understand why all of a sudden we go from an
easement at no cost to an easement with a 9,500 dollar cost. You're telling me that the
sewer could stay in the old easement line that was donated to us or given to us?
Kennedy: The easement that I signed -- I was with the understanding that the land that
they took would be paid for and the man that came out and talked to me about it and
was -- he said -- I said, well, what about the payment of the land and, like I told you
earlier, he said, well, you can -- that can be taken up later. So I signed it and that, but as
far as the old -- the old sewer that goes through, the old land agreement, it actually is --
destroys part of my property and it also is a detriment to my property, because it's clear
down on the end and it takes 40 feet off the end of my land, but with the new easement,
the easement can at a later date be a road. You see what I'm saying? An extension of
the road.
Bird: I understand what you're saying.
Kennedy: And, therefore, the -- what -- the old easement, as far as I'm concerned, is
null and void now.
Bird: Let me ask you a question. Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Go ahead.
Bird: If it's null and void now, when you signed that you were under the impression the
people that was representing the City give you the impression that you signed this for
the easement and then we'd negotiate price later? Is that what I'm understanding?
Kennedy: It was my understanding that when I signed that -- now maybe I signed it out
of ignorance, I don't know, and -- and maybe you can hold me to that, I don't know.
Bird: I'm not asking that. That's isn't what I'm asking for.
Kennedy: But it was -- like I say, the payment for the piece of land is -- I think that the
sewer company itself going across an 8th of a mile of my land is a great benefit to them
and that and if there is this benefit for them, you know, and the way it lines up with the
other Cedar Springs Subdivision, that road in Cedar Springs Subdivision will have to be
put in there, because it's under the agreement to -- preventing them from land locking
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my land and this was taken up with the attorney and that and so the road will -- will
come up to it and the sewer line will be in it and that. So if, in fact -- another thing that
enters in here is the -- the big canal -- no, the big drain ditch that goes through there, I
think you're probably all aware of that drain ditch. Right of my property it jogs 25 feet to
the north and that and so the jog that's there, the 25 feet, for them to bring the sewer
down and then get back into the lane that's in Cedar Springs is -- there is no extra cost
there, because they have already done it down on my end of the land. You see? They
have come back there, so -- for the lineup there. So that cost is not any greater to the
sewer company, you know, that's putting it in and that and, anyhow, that's my
understanding of what --
Bird: Mr. Kennedy, what I'm trying to get at is that you were under the impression when
you signed that easement the original time, somebody would be back and negotiate
money for the land?
Kennedy: Right.
Bird: Okay. But also by moving this up to where that roadway is and stuff, that makes
your land, if it's ever developed, much more valuable, too, don't it, because it's kind of in
the -- it's kind of split through so you can divide off of both north and south.
Kennedy: Well, that's true that at a later date if and when I ever sell the land and the
economy the way it is now may never be sold, but -- and with it going through there now
cross the deal, you know, is an asset maybe in the future and that.
Bird: Thank you very much.
Kennedy: Thank you.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Mr. Watson, what I'm hearing is that this change in this easement now would
appear to benefit Cedar Springs and Cedar Springs has somehow been involved in this
discussion with Mr. Kennedy and it's mentioned in your memo to Mr. Howell you
mentioned that this change would actually benefit Cedar Springs more than where it's
currently located; correct?
Watson: Councilman Nary, Mayor, an Council Members, that is correct to a certain
extent, although Gary did have a verbal -- or a phone conversation with the Cedar
Springs consultant. That corner lot in the northwestern most corner of Cedar Springs is
an open space lot, drainage lot, so it's not as big a concern as I was initially led to
believe by the developer.
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Nary: I also heard you say that the other easements along this particular stretch, the
City hasn't paid for any of those easements, all of those have been donated or -- is that
correct?
Watson: Councilmember Nary, that's true to a certain extent, although we still don't
have the Cedar Springs easement.
Nary: True.
Watson: And in that same mid mile the school district was -- granted an easement to us
not for cash payment, but it was approved that there would be an offset in their
assessment fees on their project on that particular property.
Nary: So the private landowners along that way had all donated these easements?
These are not things the City had been paying for previously?
Watson: Councilman Nary, correct.
Nary: So what I'm curious -- and maybe it was just simply miscommunication and I don't
know whether or not we can find that out tonight, but Mr. Kennedy is saying he was
believing that somehow we were going to negotiate some price later on and it sounds to
me that that really wouldn't have been the discussion if we weren't negotiating a price
for anybody along that particular stretch. There must have been some
misunderstanding or some miscommunication about that, I guess.
Watson: Councilman Nary, Mayor, and Council Members, I wasn't a part of that
conversation, but I know that those were not Keller's marching order when they left our
office to start securing easements, that we were proceeding on a donation basis. If
something else was said, I'm not aware of it.
Nary: So that I'm just clear -- I'm no engineer, so you've got to help me here, but we
already have an easement, we can already build the line through this property and we
don't need to do this to make the sewer work or to make anything work, we can already
do with what we already have approved and agreed upon; is that right?
Watson: Councilman Nary, that is correct. We have some shades of gray as to what is
the best alignment, but --
Nary: Right. The best thing -- I mean if we take that into consideration, we -- if this
hadn't come up after last July when this was approved, we were just going to go
forward and be done with it on this property; correct?
Watson: Correct.
Nary: All right. Thank you.
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Corrie: Any other discussion?
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would -- and this is for Mr. Kennedy's sake and our sake both. I certainly don't
want to cheat this gentleman if he was led to believe that we would be back and
negotiate price to him. I'd like see this pulled until the next meeting and have Brad
investigate with the person that was representing the City and see what could have
been -- what could have given Mr. Kennedy the notion that he would be getting
reimbursed some money for this and -- because I have a real hard problem -- and also
as a Council person I'd like to -- and I'm the first to say that I sat here and voted on it, so
probably seen it, but I didn't keep it. I'd like to see a copy of that original easement, the
wording on it, and so I'd like see this pulled to February 19, 2002 and bring it back at
that point, if it's agreeable with the rest of the Council.
Nary: Was that a motion, Mr. Bird?
Bird: That's a motion.
Nary: I'd second it.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded to table it until the February 19th
,
the White Drain Trunk Sewer permanent and temporary construction easement with Mr.
John Kennedy. Any further discussion?
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: When staff meets with Mr. Kennedy -- I think it would be worth noting up
until the White Drain we haven't paid for any easements. It's generally noted by the
property owners that it does add value to their property and that's why it's been a
common practice and I guess one that we haven't questioned. So just if staff could talk
with you about how we have done it in the past and so you know the process.
Kennedy: It's my understanding the Idaho State law provides for easements across
people's property and at a fair value price. At least that's what Barry Peters tells me and
that and I don't think I'm being unreasonable. The assessment was made of -- the value
was according to your assessor and that value was 9,500 and that was for .55 acres.
You now have .8 acres, because the -- because it aligns with the road. The road is 50
feet wide and before it was 40 feet wide and that and -- and I'm only asking for .55,
that's what your assessment was originally, and so that's the way I feel and that's where
I stand on it.
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Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Mr. Kennedy, just so you understand, I mean you're not incorrect in what you
were told. If we make you give it to us, we have to pay you for it, but if you give it to us
we don't, and I think that's kind of where we are stuck on, is that it appears that a year --
well, six or eight months ago you gave it to the City and that's kind of where we are
stuck on this issue. So you're right in what you're staying, if we made you give it to us
we have pay you for it, but we don't if you give it to us, so --
Kennedy: So then misrepresentation can be considered then.
Nary: Well, that's what Mr. Bird's motion was, to figure out exactly what happened.
Bird: That's what we want to find out.
Corrie: Any further discussion?
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
Corrie: Okay. All those in favor of the motion say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: So we will be talking with Mr. Kennedy and the staff and seeing what we can
come up with.
3: Woodbridge Subdivision No. 2 Off-Site Water Line
Project - Agreement for Professional Services
Corrie: Okay. Item No. 3 under M, I believe it was for the Council. Brad.
Watson: Thank you, Mayor and Council Members. This item is -- I don't know if you
want any background or not. The background on this is that Woodbridge No. 2 was
approved on the condition that the City Public Works Department provide the design
and construction of some off-site water to tie that subdivision into the high pressure
zone. We thought it beneficial to both the City and the developer -- that the developer
include the design and construction within his cost and that a reimbursement
agreement be entered into for both design and construction. I corresponded with O'Neil
Enterprises and they were agreeable to that. It provided a reimbursement agreement
for the engineering costs that -- you have a copy of a red lined agreement, that was all I
had by the time I had to get this into your packets. A revised agreement -- it is signed by
Derrick O'Neil with the corrected cost amount of $4,772.50 is in my possession. I would
be happy to answer any questions if you have any.
Meridian City Council Meeting
February 5, 2002
Page 15 of 88
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Brad, is that cost real legitimate? That's about eight percent of the estimated
construction cost?
Watson: Councilman Bird, Mayor, and Council Members, I think it is and that
construction cost estimate is a little lose. We don't know what the patch back
requirements are at this point, so it could be plus or minus, but I --
Bird: This is the construction management of this -- within this also?
Watson: Correct. This includes design, construction, staking, and some construction –
Bird: Construction administration?
Watson: Right. But those costs are in line with what we have paid on our waterline
projects.
Bird: Okay. I have none.
Corrie: Okay. Any other discussion? Hearing none, I will entertain a motion, then, for the
Woodbridge Subdivision off-site water line project, agreement for professional services.
McCandless: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. McCandless.
McCandless: I move that we approve the reimbursement for design, construction,
staking and project administration of Woodbridge Community, LLC, for the Woodbridge
Subdivision No. 2 off-site water line project in the lump sum amount $4,772.50.
Authorize the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and -- by Mrs. McCandless, seconded by Mr. Bird
to approve the $4,772.50 payment. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all in favor
say aye. All ayes. Motion is carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
B. Attorney Department - Bill Nichols:
1. Draft Agreement with ACHD for the Locust Grove
Overpass Project: Follow-up from ACHD:
Meridian City Council Meeting
February 5, 2002
Page 16 of 88
Corrie: Okay. Mr. Nichols, Draft agreement with on Locust Grove.
Nichols: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council. You will recall that at the joint
meeting of the City and the Ada County Highway District Commissioners on January 7,
2002, the issue of the reimbursement of up to 1.8 million dollars for a right-of-way
acquisition on the Locust Grove overpass was discussed and we are kind of getting
down to the final terms of the agreement. The communication I received from ACHD
requested that the Section 5.2, which allowed the termination from 30 days notice be
eliminated and if it were eliminated they would accept our definition of what the 1.8 -- or
up to 1.8 million dollars could be used for, which essentially is hard land costs in
payment to the owners and/or their encumbrancers from Franklin Road to Overland
Road, including some of the work on the Overland-Locust Grove intersection. Stacy
Kilchenmann indicated to me that she had a discussion with somebody at ACHD with
regard to the timing of the payments -- let's see -- and what she indicated was the City
would have 45 days to pay after receipt of all of the appropriate documentation and
would pay quarterly anything over 50,000 dollars, that they would give at least a couple
weeks advance notice, so that for cash flow purposes, investments, and so forth, can
be moved around to try to take care of that. So we needed to have you discuss it and if
you want us to go forward with language along those lines, then we will put it together
and we would bring a draft back to you to look at before the joint meeting in April. The
expectation was to have the language all hammered out so that you could sign it at your
joint meeting in April.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: So, Mr. Nichols, you said that our finance director was okay with 45 days?
Because she has been saying between 60 and 90 days.
Nichols: Well, let me quote from her e-mail that she sent me on January 17th
. Someone
from ACHD accounting department, I think, called me and we talked about the release
of the overpass money. We agreed that the City would have 45 days to pay and that we
would pay quarterly. If anything over $50,000 was coming, he will call and give me a
couple weeks notice. It might have been possible to pay all at once at the end of the
project, but that was not their first choice.
De Weerd: Okay. Well, then if it's fine with her, the 45 days is great, and including the
intersection of Locust Grove and Overland is not a problem, as long as they, again,
understand it's reserved and it's not to exceed 1.8 million dollars.
Nichols: That's correct.
De Weerd: Okay.
Meridian City Council Meeting
February 5, 2002
Page 17 of 88
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: My recollection of this discussion, Bill, was that part of the reason for that
termination provision is pretty standard language, so that we don't have any issue
regarding the constitution provision about binding future councils and I recall Mrs. Cain
having a real problem with that, because -- just because there was a concern that
somehow it gets into this project and the City might change their mind. But that's the
reason that provision exists is because future councils can change their mind about
these things. I guess I'm a little bothered -- and I wasn't here in the beginning of this
agreement, but the City of Meridian is willing to cough up 1.8 million dollars that the
Ada County Highway District doesn't have to come up with for something the Ada
County Highway District is responsible to build and they are saying they are only going
to accept that if we agree that we won't have any way to back out of this deal in the
future, even though the State Constitution requires that. So what's our way to get
around that constitutional requirement that says we aren't binding future council's
decision?
Nichols: Mr. Nary, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, it's my opinion that it does not
violate the Constitution, because it is a funded project. The Constitutional prohibition is
really in terms of going out and obligating a council based upon, you know, some future
revenue, as opposed to money that you already have in the bank. This like a Public
Works project that carries over from one fiscal year into the next here you have it
budgeted, the funds are set aside, and it just carries over from one year into the next.
It's not really binding a future council in the same sense as going out and say building a
building and getting a conventional loan and you're expecting tax revenue to come in to
pay those annual payments, so --
Nary: So it's already fully funded -- the 1.8 million dollars is already fully funded?
Nichols: Yes.
Nary: -- up front? Okay.
Nichols: And let me just say, too, that at least in my conversations with ACHD's attorney
who prepared the draft of the contract, she pulled that in the standard language of some
of their other agreements that they had with vendors and contractors and that sort of
thing and it wasn't intended to reflect the constitutional issue or -- it was just basically
part of the boilerplate that she put in.
Nary: Then what's our check, Mr. Nichols -- I know you had it here before and I just
don't have it with me at the moment, but what's our check to be sure that we are
comfortable with what's being purchased, besides being able to pull out of --
Meridian City Council Meeting
February 5, 2002
Page 18 of 88
Nichols: Councilman Nary, Mayor, Members of the Council, before any reimbursement
is made, they have to provide us with copies of purchase and sale agreements, closing
statements, all of the documentation, so that we can see that what they are asking for is
just what got paid to the owner and/or encumbrancer.
Nary: Okay. That sounds reasonable. At least some way we can make sure that we are
buying what we wanted to buy.
Corrie: Any other questions?
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
Corrie: Okay. We will just go on with it and have you go with that. Is that what you –
Nichols: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, I just -- what I would prepare for you would
be another draft that would include our definition of what the money is to be used for,
payment per what I read from Stacy Kilchenmann's e-mail, elimination of Section 5.2
from the draft agreement with the regard to 30 day termination, and I think those are the
only issues that we really needed to get clarified. So unless someone has an objection
on the Council, that's what I will work on and prepare next.
Corrie: Do I hear any objection from Council?
Nary: No objection.
Bird: No objection.
C. Park's Department - Tom Kuntz:
1. Request to reject all bids on Meridian Skate Park Project:
Corrie: Thank you. City Parks. Mr. Kuntz.
Kuntz: Thank you, Mayor and Council. You will find in your packets a memo from the
Parks and Recreation staff requesting authorization to reject all three of the bids for the
Tully Skate Park. All three bids were well over the budgeted amount of 120,000 and the
architect's estimate of 128,000, which is 12 dollars a square foot. The low bidder was
Wright Brothers with 188.750. The next low bid was CSCI of 190,000 and KJ
Corporation at 196,978. Staff has spent the last 45 days, one, meeting with Wright
Brothers to discuss possible deletions to the contract to bring the price down. We met
with a skate park consultant and the Land Group who designed ours and made some
value engineering design changes, hoping to bring that price down, as well as we have
approached certain supply vendors to see if they would contribute in kind contributions
for the project and to this point have not been able to bring it down substantial enough
with the low bid to make it work.
Meridian City Council Meeting
February 5, 2002
Page 19 of 88
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Tom, what are your plans when -- after we reject these -- or if we do reject these in
getting our skateboard park up, which we have made a promise -- we have actually got
104,000, I believe, left in our budget and we have got some donations and stuff I'm sure
we can get in, so what is your plans?
Kuntz: Councilmember Bird, and Council, Mayor, our plan is to take the redesign
features that were discussed with the consultant and actually have some additional
suggestions that we are going to meet and discuss and try and incorporate those into
the new design. We will go out to bid for the third time. I have met with one contractor
who has assured me that with the new design that they know it can be built for between
150 and $160,000.00 with the changes that they are already recommending from the
Land Group and the consultant. Second, we received one offer from a concrete supply
company to donate half of the concrete material, which is a $10,000 savings. We have
received confirmation from Friends of Meridian Parks, a $2,500.00 donation, with the
possibility -- strong possibility of another 2,500, to bring that to 5,000. We are meeting
with all the youth in the community who are interested in seeing this built tomorrow at
5:00 to show them a list of things that we feel like we can get contributed if we talk to
the right people in the community and we are going to get the kids involved in going out
and meeting with these suppliers to see if they will contribute in kind. In addition to that,
in the other in-kind cash contributors, the kids probably have some ideas and where
they can go knock on some doors to make that happen. So with all those things thrown
together, we feel like we can build that skate park this summer.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Tom, who is going to be the construction manager on this?
Kuntz: The Land Group.
Bird: And this is all within their fee or are they going to charge us more? They have
already received the 16,000 for the design.
Kuntz: That's included in their fee. And, Councilmember Bird, they call it construction
administration.
Bird: Okay. And that is no more fee to them?
Kuntz: Correct.
Bird: Okay. Mr. Mayor?
Meridian City Council Meeting
February 5, 2002
Page 20 of 88
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: With that, if there is no more questions, I would move that we reject the three bids,
as I know Tom has went and worked with the apparent low bidder, they can't get down
there, we got to figure out a way to get a skateboard park built and we certainly don't
have the money to go -- and I know these three contractors bid this under good
intentions. We put it out for bid under good intentions. I hate to see this have to be
done, but to get that skateboard park I believe this is the only way we are going to be
able to do it, so I would make a motion that we reject all three bids.
De Weerd: Second.
Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded. Any other discussion?
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Before we go -- I would like to have those kids get involved. Let them get some
stake in it and we might not have so much damage out there if they get some of their
sweat and blood into that and I think it's a good idea. Let the kids know what's going on
here. I think they are going to get it done. If we can't, they will.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I'd like to say one thing on behalf -- and I believe I can speak for the City and the
Council, the Parks Department. We don't like doing this to general contractors of any
sort when they bid the jobs. We do it and they do it, work hard getting it done, and we
go about -- but this is one thing that we just -- there is just no way that we can justify
their revised low bid at a skateboard park at this time and I just would like to assure the
general contractors that this is not a policy that the City wants to do, but at this one --
this one point I believe we have to do it.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I do believe, Tom, when we put this out to bid, isn't there an estimate noted
somewhere for -- at least the three contractors -- oh, there wasn't any estimate on the
bid?
Kuntz: Councilmember de Weerd, the estimate was given at the pre-construction
meeting held on site approximately two weeks before the bids were closed. So the -- I
know all the plan holders who attended that meeting were told what the architect's
estimate was.
Meridian City Council Meeting
February 5, 2002
Page 21 of 88
De Weerd: Okay. Well, so I don't think there is going to be any surprise that these bids
are rejected and they do know how interested the City is in getting this skate park and I
appreciate your consultant's time and will work with the city in trying to get this here.
Thank you for your efforts, too, Tom.
Corrie: Any other discussion? Comments?
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Okay. Motion was to reject all bids that were presented by Mr. Kuntz. All those in
favor of the motion say aye. Opposed no. Motion is carried. Thank you Tom.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
D. Police Department - Mike Worley:
1. Intouch Solutions, Inc. Sales Agreement:
Corrie: Item No. D, is the Police Department, Mike Worley, Intouch Solutions, Inc., sales
agreement.
Worley: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, you have in your packet a copy of a
proposed contract between the City and Intouch Solutions, which was formerly known
as Tele-Con for a telephone system for the new Meridian Police building at 1401 East
Watertower. The contract is in the amount of $75,750.00, which is approximately
$10,000.00 below the budgeted amount and breaks down to $33,250.00 for telephone
equipment and $42,500.00 for the Cat-5 wearing for the building and that includes both
voice and data wiring. This particular agreement is issued pursuant to -- I believe you
also have a copy of a contract between Tele-Con and the State of Idaho Department of
Administration Purchasing, SBP-016 as amended, which is valid until May 8, 2002. Ask
the Council's approval, for the Mayor to sign, and the Clerk to attest.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I do have a question, but first I'd like to thank you for the tour of the station
you gave us. This community has much to be proud of. You're doing a fine job out
there.
Worley: Thank you.
De Weerd: Well, thank you. It was very nice. I do have a question. Was this put out for -
- do we have estimates in addition to this on this project?
Meridian City Council Meeting
February 5, 2002
Page 22 of 88
Worley: Mr. Mayor and Councilwoman de Weerd, this is issued pursuant to an existing
state contract. We did get one additional bid from another company, but it was nearly
twice the amount here.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Corrie: Any other discussion? Hearing none, I'll entertain a motion on the request for the
$75,750.00 total purchase price on the Intouch Solutions, Inc.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I would move the approval of the agreement with Intouch Solutions for the
telephone system for the Meridian Police Department at the contracted price of
$75,750.00 as per the staff report that's been presented and for the Mayor to sign and
the Clerk to attest for that agreement.
McCandless: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and second. Any further discussion? Hearing
none, all in favor of the motion say aye. All ayes. Motion is carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 5: (Items Moved from Consent Agenda)
F. Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law for Approval:
VAR 01-012 Request for a Variance to the Landscape Ordinance
for Elixir Properties Subdivision by Paul Clayton - 521 North Eagle
Road:
G. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP
01-028 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a fast food
restaurant with drive-thru in a C-G zone for proposed Wendy’s by
Wenco, Inc. – northwest intersection of Corporate Drive and East
First Street:
Corrie: Thank you. That takes care of the items that were -- items that were moved, so
we have Item F and Item G; is that correct?
Bird: Yes, sir.
F. Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law for Approval:
VAR 01-012 Request for a Variance to the Landscape Ordinance
Meridian City Council Meeting
February 5, 2002
Page 23 of 88
for Elixir Properties Subdivision by Paul Clayton - 521 North Eagle
Road:
Corrie: Okay. So let's take up the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law for the
request for a variance to the Landscape Ordinance for Elixir Properties Subdivision by
Paul Clayton. Discussion, Council?
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, under the Decision and Order, page 15 of 11 -- I guess
that needs to be fixed, but under the Decision of Order I had some suggestions for
rewording that to make it clearer. The wording is a little hard to understand, in my
opinion, anyway, and I would suggest that starting at number one -- well, I will just read
it how I would -- I would suggest it be put in the Findings. One, that the applicant is
hereby granted a variance approval of the landscape buffer requirement between Lots 1
and 2 part one in Finding 15 above. Period. Then the next Item, No. 2, the applicant is
hereby denied the elimination of the required street buffer adjacent to Commercial
Court. And then to delete the last sentence there. I would suggest that for your --
whatever decision you have there. It just seemed to make it a little clearer for me,
anyway, and hopefully for the applicant as well.
Corrie: Okay. Paul. You heard what she had to say. Do you have any –
Clayton: No. I'm already aware of that.
Corrie: Okay. I thought you were.
Clayton: However, I do wish to thank you staff for what they have done and the one
item that there is a problem with, we want to discuss that with staff, because it does
present a problem that's going to be difficult to handle and I'd like some suggestions
from staff. If they could meet me at the site sometime at their convenience I could work
that out and have it taken care of.
Corrie: Okay. Does that have anything to do with what we are talking about here tonight,
though?
Clayton: Yes. There is one item there that she just mentioned that you don't want to
approve. It's the area in front of the existing building that's in question there, because of
the restriction of the space that's there from the original development and it has to be
discussed by the staff and myself to see if we can work it out to make a proper decision.
Being a beat up old architect, I can take a lot of suggestions.
Corrie: Okay. Council, do you have any --
Bird: Shari, do you understand what Mr. Clayton is talking about?
Stiles: Well, I --
Meridian City Council Meeting
February 5, 2002
Page 24 of 88
Bird: Because I don't.
Stiles: -- I think I understand is he still doesn't want to do the landscaping, the required
street buffer along Commercial Court.
Clayton: No, it's not that we don't want to do it, it's that we've got to have a decision of
how it's going to be done, because of the restrictions because of the existing building
when it was built back in 1968 and the original road that was put in, the area that is in
question is not big enough to satisfy all the requirements.
Bird: Do you understand what he' talking about, Shari? Along there when the roadway
to the -- as I understand it, it's to the east of the existing buildings?
Clayton: North.
Bird: North I mean. Yes. North.
Stiles: I believe that we talked about -- I guess I'd like some clarification on what the
conditions are and we realize that there will need to be some asphalt removed in order
to put landscaping there.
Clayton: Well, when the building was built originally in 1968, when I drew the plans for
that building, we had no restrictions of anybody requiring anything out there and when it
wound up as it is, there is not enough room to do the required parking and put a planter
and a sidewalk in that area and we have got to make a decision between the staff and
company what we are going to do with that to satisfy the requirements of the staff.
Stiles: I would be happy to come out. It's just we are bound by what the ordinance said,
so --
Clayton: I know. That's why we have got a problem and I would be tickled to death to
have somebody come out there and help me work it out. I have no -- I have no qualms
about it whatever. Whatever you want we will take care of it, it's just got to be done with
some kind of decision by the staff what we can do.
Stiles: Well, I would be happy to get someone to go with me from the Public Works
Department and -- would Monday be okay for you?
Clayton: You just tell when you're going to be there and I will be there.
Stiles: Okay. Great. We can do that.
Clayton: The rest of it is in good shape, because everything else is what we want and I
have no problem with it at all. But that's one item that's going to be a problem -- not a
problem, it's going to have to be decided how to do it, that's all.
Meridian City Council Meeting
February 5, 2002
Page 25 of 88
De Weerd: A challenge.
Corrie: Okay. Council, we can table this until the 19th
if you so desire.
Bird: Get that worked out.
Corrie: Pardon? Well, we -- yes, we will deal with those findings on the 19th
. Yes.
Correct.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I guess it will give us a chance to see the revised findings and then we can
just vote on them at that time.
Corrie: Okay. Do I hear a motion?
Bird: Yes. I make a motion that we table the Findings, request for variance on
landscape ordinance for Elixir Properties Subdivision, 521 North Eagle Road, to
February 19, 2002.
De Weerd: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and second to table the Findings of Facts and
Conclusions of Law on VAR No. 01-012 until February 19th
and have staff meet with
Paul. So any further discussion? All those in favor of the motion say aye. All ayes.
Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
G. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP
01-028 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a fast food
restaurant with drive-thru in a C-G zone for proposed Wendy's by
Wenco, Inc. - northwest intersection of Corporate Drive and East
First Street:
Corrie: Thank you, Paul. We have No. 5-G. It was pulled. This was the CUP, request
for Conditional Use Permit for Wendy's. Who pulled the --
De Weerd: I did.
Corrie: Tammy.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Meridian City Council Meeting
February 5, 2002
Page 26 of 88
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: As I reviewed the findings I did note there is some revised ACHD findings,
dated January 2, 2002. On page seven of Finding 12.18 -- and I guess it's also on
page 17, 1.18, ACHD did grant them full access to the right-in, right-out driveway, so
that does need to be noted on these. Also I think that David had comments that --
regarding the recommendation from the Planning and Zoning Commission. I don't know
if those changes are in here, I didn't make notes by it, so, Shari, did you have a chance
to review these findings?
Stiles: I didn't, but I believe -- I thought that David had and -- did he not submit a memo
on this?
De Weerd: He did, but when I read them -- I don't have that information in front of me,
so --
Stiles: I don't either, because I didn't realize there was still a problem. I didn't bring the
whole file.
De Weerd: I only ask that those were incorporated into these, just to -- if he can make
sure they are, because the two findings that were changed by ACHD, one was changed
and one wasn't, so I don't know --
Stiles: We didn't receive this final decision until January 23rd
, so I doubt it is in the
findings that are here. I don't know. The Findings are dated January 18th
, so I don't
know how they would be able to -- unless they all had copies of that prior.
De Weerd: Well, it looks like we may have to table these Findings just to have that
verification that they were incorporated in, so I guess with that said, I will move to table
the Findings for request for a Conditional Use Permit for a fast food restaurant by
proposed Wendy's to February 19th
.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made by Mrs. de Weerd, second by Mr. Bird, to table the
Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law for CUP 01-028, Wendy's, by Wenco, until
the February 19th
meeting.
De Weerd: 2002?
Corrie: 2002.
De Weerd: Just thought I would clarify that.
Corrie: Any further discussion? All those in favor of the motion say aye. All ayes. Motion
is carried.
Meridian City Council Meeting
February 5, 2002
Page 27 of 88
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: Okay. I believe that takes care of the consent agenda items, Council?
Bird: Yes, sir.
Item 6: Resolution No.___________: Public Work's Fees and Adjustments:
Corrie: Okay. Now we are on the Item No. 6. This is a Resolution No. 02-374. This is
a Public Work's fee and adjustments. Mr. Berg, if you will read the Resolution No.
02-374 by the Title only at this time.
Berg: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council. Resolution No. 02-374. A
Resolution of the City -- by the City Council of the City of Meridian making certain
findings and adoptions -- adopting -- excuse me -- new fees and adjustments to the
Public Works Department.
Corrie: Okay. Council, any questions on Resolution No. 02-374?
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: We received a letter from Brad Watson dated February 1, 2002, talking
about Section 3 of this Resolution's effective date. I just wanted to make sure that it is
felt that this is specific enough, Brad, for the issues that you raised in your memo?
Watson: Council member de Weerd, Mayor, and Council, I think so. I read the
resolution. I think it addresses what I had expressed concern about in that memo.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Corrie: Any other questions on the resolution? Hearing none, I'll entertain a motion on
Resolution No. 02-374.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I would move the approval of Resolution No. 02-374, Public Work's fees and
adjustment resolution for the new fees and adjustments for the Public Works
Department, the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest for the adoption of this resolution
and that the new fees take effect March 1, 2002.
McCandless: Second.
Meridian City Council Meeting
February 5, 2002
Page 28 of 88
Corrie: Motion has been made by Mr. Nary and second by Mrs. McCandless to adopt
Resolution No. 02-374, and the Mayor to sign and the Clerk attest. Have any
discussion? Hearing none, roll call vote, Mr. Berg.
Role Call: Bird, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Nary, aye.
Corrie: Okay. All ayes. Motion for Resolution 02-374 has been approved.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 7: Tabled from January 15, 2002: FP 01-015 Request for Final Plat
approval of 23 building lots and 5 other lots on 8.15 acres in an R-4 zone
for Staten Park Subdivision by D'Alessio Building Development – south
of West Ustick Road and North Black Cat Road:
Corrie: Item No. 7 was tabled from the January 15, 2002. This is a request for a Final
Plat approval of 23 building lots and 5 other lots on 8.15 acres in an R-4 zone for Staten
Park Subdivision by the D'Allessio Building Development, south of West Ustick Road
and North of Black Cat Road. Counsel -- excuse me. Staff comments.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, this project was initially before City Council on
September 18, 2001. It has been tabled quite a number of times and I believe the
applicant's representative is here tonight. Apparently there has been a change in the
owner of the property or the applicant, but I'll have Mr. Leavitt speak to that, and we
would recommend approval with all of the conditions originally placed on the project
and make sure that the new owners are fully aware of those requirements.
Corrie: Any comments, questions from staff? Okay. Yes. I think the applicant --
Leavitt: Honorable Mayor and City Council Members, I'm Reese Leavitt with Leavitt and
Associates Engineers. I can see you're aware that the project has changed ownership
and that's one of the reasons it's been on the table for some time. It has been bought
CavCo and one of the representatives of the ownership Doug Campbell is here tonight,
but we have made changes to the drawings, which reflect the change in ownership on
the plat and improvement drawings and we have addressed the comments that have
been given to us on the checklist. We just want to get the drawings off the table now
that the ownership has changed and get them back in line for approval. Didn't really
come to present, but I would be happy to address any questions which you may have.
Corrie: Okay. Any questions from Council?
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
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February 5, 2002
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De Weerd: You have seen, then, all the comments and, staff, have you received
comments back?
Stiles: I'm not sure that they ever replied.
De Weerd: Was there anything that you did not address?
Leavitt: I have City Council Final Plat approval comments 9/18 and those we have
addressed, but we have not submitted the drawings, we have just barely changed the
title block to reflect change in ownership, but we have the drawings ready to re-submit
and I don't think we have any disagreement with the comments.
De Weerd: Okay. When you say you are resubmitting, what are you resubmitting?
Leavitt: We are resubmitting drawings with the corrections requested.
De Weerd: Okay.
Corrie: Haven't changed the plat or anything.
Leavitt: No. Other than to reflect change in ownership.
Corrie: Okay.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, that would just be the construction plans for the
subdivision. They have reviewed them and red lined them and given them back to Mr.
Leavitt and he's made those corrections and he's ready to resubmit them to Public
Works.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Corrie: Okay.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Leavitt.
Corrie: Thank you. Okay. Council, I'll entertain a motion on the request for final plat.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: It would be my privilege to see this taken off of our agenda. I would move to
approve FP 01-015, request for Final Plat for approval of 23 building lots and 5 other
lots on 8.15 acres for Staten Park Subdivision, to include all staff conditions and
comments and to ask the attorney to draw up Findings of Facts and Conclusions of
Law.
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February 5, 2002
Page 30 of 88
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made by Mrs. de Weerd and second by Mr. Bird to have
the Final Plat approval for Staten Park Subdivision and have the staff comments and
the attorney to draw up the final papers. Any further discussion?
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I would simply note that I would abstain on this particular project, since I was not
present for the Public Hearing. Other than the many times it has been tabled, I have
heard no discussion about it.
Corrie: Okay. Any other discussion? Hearing none, Mr. Berg, roll call vote, please.
Role Call: Bird, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Nary, abstain.
Corrie: Three ayes, one abstention. The request for Final Plat approval has been
approved.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSTENTION
Item 8: Tabled-from January 15, 2002: FP 01-026 Request for Final Plat
approval-of-31-building lots and 4 other lots on 13.85 acres in an R-4
zone for Bear Creek Subdivision No. 6 by Bear Creek, LLC - east of
Stoddard Road and north of Victory Road:
Corrie: Item No. 8. This is tabled from the January 15th
meeting also. This is a request
or Final Plat approval of 31 building lots and 4 other lots on 13.85 acres in an R-4 zone
for Bear Creek Subdivision No. 6 by Bear Creek, LLC, east of Stoddard Road and north
of Victory Road. Staff request for the Final Plat? Discussion?
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, as part of the background on this, we had originally
requested that this be tabled due to the fact that the submittal for the Final Plat for Bear
Creek No. 5 is not in accordance with the approved Preliminary Plat, specifically they
have taken out open space that was originally shown on the Preliminary Plat and staff
cannot approve that as a minor change in the platting. We don't want to be in the
business of negotiating moving open space. So the plat -- since that plat was not in
conformance and we think it's really important that these phases be developed in the
order they were approved on the Preliminary Plat, we'd ask that this not be acted upon
until a conforming Final Plat is submitted for No. 5, so that we can then act on No. 6.
We kind of ran into a problem particularly with Packard Acres Subdivision and Packard
Estates where there is so many changes in the numbers that we couldn't even follow
what was going anymore. So that's the reason that we are requesting it to be table.
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February 5, 2002
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Corrie: Okay. Is there a representative at all from Bear Creek Subdivision? I didn't see
anyone. Council, request from staff is to move this to a different date. What date, Shari,
did you want this?
Stiles: I would request it be for the first meeting in April.
Corrie: Okay. Would that be April 2nd
?
Stiles: Yes.
Corrie: Okay. Did I miss a motion here? Is there --
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Okay.
Bird: I move that we table the request for Final Plat approval of 31 building lots and 4
other lots on 13.85 acres in an R-4 zone for Bear Creek Subdivision No. 6 by Bear
Creek, LLC, east of Stoddard Road and north of Victory Road and that number is FP
01-026 until April 2, 2002.
Nary: Second.
Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded to move Item No. 8, the Final Plat
01-026, until April the 2nd
. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor say
aye. Anybody opposed? No. Okay. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 9: Continued Public Hearing from January 15, 2002: CUP 01-035
Request for a Conditional Use Permit for the construction of a building to
be used for wholesale building material distribution in an I-L zone for
Intermountain Wood Products by The Banks Group, LLC - south of East
Franklin Road and west of South Locust Grove:
Corrie: Item No. 9 is a continued Public Hearing from January 15, 2002. This is a
request for a Conditional Use Permit for the construction of a building to be used for
wholesale building material distribution in a I-L zone for Intermountain Wood Products
by Brooks Group, LLC, south of East Franklin Road and west of South Locust Grove. At
this time I will continue this Public Hearing. Staff comments first.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, hopefully your memory is a little bit better than mine on
this project. I believe we had asked for a new site plan to be submitted showing how the
trash enclosure was going to be taken care of. We have received a new plan. It's dated
January 22, 2002. I don't know if it met all the original conditions. I know that there was
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February 5, 2002
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some question about the noise that the different equipment would make and we did
want to see a plan of what was proposed for the landscaping. We don't appear to have
a -- still don't appear to have a landscape plan.
De Weerd: Yes, we do.
Stiles: Oh. Not one that I'm familiar with. There was the issue of the propane and the
generators and Mrs. Smith is here again to testify. I'm sure she can all recall exactly
what her issues were. I don't have anything else to add right now.
Corrie: Okay. This is a continued Public Hearing on this Conditional Use Permit. Is the
applicant here tonight? All right. Oh, yes. I remember now.
Banks: It's the haircut.
Corrie: No. I was trying to recollect and then I remember your face and I remember –
Banks: My recollection from our last meeting, there were several concerns. One was
the landscaping plan. Ben Banks from the Banks Group. Mr. Mayor, when you
introduced this you said the Brooks Group. Just want to make sure that you understand
it's the Banks Group.
Corrie: Excuse me. Understand correctly.
Banks: So you have the landscaping plan. On that plan you will notice that the propane
tank has been removed. We are going to run the generator with natural gas. You will
also notice that the concern with the trash collector has been addressed as well. The
other issue that was brought up was that the noise of the trucks and the forklifts and we
did a little research into that. I don't know that that's an issue for a Conditional Use
Permit, but just for your information we contacted the manufacturers of the industrial lift
trucks and just the regular trucks. There is no law on the books that requires backup
devices. They sent us a sheet from the American Society of Technical Engineers and all
it says is every truck shall be equipped with an operator controlled horn or other sound
producing device and then it says the user shall determine if operating conditions
require the truck to be equipped with additional sound producing devices. So I suspect
if you were in the residential garbage business you might want some type of sound
producing device on it, but it is not a requirement. So then we contacted OSHA to see if
they had some written material and OSHA indicated to us that there were no current
regulations or laws that required sound producing devices on trucks or forklifts.
Bird: Backup.
Corrie: Backup you mean?
Banks: Backup. Exactly. Yes.
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February 5, 2002
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Corrie: Okay. Any questions so far, Council?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I guess there was one other issue and that was the stipulation in the fire
department.
Banks: On fire hydrants?
De Weerd: Well, no, it was on the vertical clearance.
Corrie: Chief Bowers?
De Weerd: I think that was supposed to be a clarification. There was a stipulation in
here on vertical clearance for the covered loading area at 13 feet six inches.
Bowers: City Council member de Weerd and Mayor Corrie, what is it, 13, six? Was that
what it was, Tammy? Maximum? Okay. What that is is the loading dock has to be that
high to get trucks in and out of it so they are not hitting the top of the building. So
basically that's all it was was that the opening has to be that tall, so we have to pull a
fire truck in there we can get it in there.
De Weerd: Okay. so you're talking a minimum.
Bowers: Yes. He didn't completely fill it out or didn't do something right, so --
De Weerd: Okay. That was a question we had, so --
Bowers: Exactly.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Corrie: Okay. Let the record show you're still under oath from the first time. Thank
you.
Banks: Thank you.
Corrie: Anyone here that want to testify? Jeri Smith, are you here? Raise your right
hand.
J.Smith: Jeri Smith.
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February 5, 2002
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Corrie: Is the testimony you're about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
the truth, so help you God?
J.Smith: Yes, sir.
Corrie: Okay. Give your name and address, please.
J.Smith: Jeri Smith, 235 South Locust Grove. Since I didn't see the landscaping, I'd
like to ask a question on the landscaping. he 20 feet that we have between our back
fence and from his back property line, is there any landscaping that would benefit us in
the back of that building or is it only a metal building that we will be looking at
continuously? Because when Mr. Barnes put the property -- when he developed it all
we got was trees that were from about three to maybe six feet high in a 20 foot buffer
zone and those -- none of us in the Council or myself will live to see those trees even
give any kind of protection and some of those trees are dead now. I know there is one
outside my house that's dead. So we have no protection, other than just the metal
building out behind us and if noise does become a problem, maybe a buffer of some
sort out there might help it. I don't know how the Council is going to address the fact
that if there is noise it's going to be very disturbing to us, since we are an occupant 24
hours a day. Are there any suggestions from Council?
Nary: Is this your property right there?
J.Smith: Yes. The lighter one is.
Nary: The big one?
J.Smith: Yes.
Nary: Okay.
J.Smith: And the buffer between us and his back property line, like I said, is nil as far as
anything -- visual sighting or noise or anything. There is no protection in the fencing or
anything.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: If I'm reading this right Jeri, I think that all you're getting -- all that's in the back is a
retention pond and grass. I don't know if it's on a berm or --
J.Smith: There is a fence -- no. It's not on -- no.
Bird: I don't think --
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February 5, 2002
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J.Smith: In fact, he didn't --
Bird: And then you got an existing 20 foot planter strip that you --
J.Smith: There was a 20 foot strip between our back fence and his back fence, which
would be Mr. Banks' -- or Intermountain Wood Product's back fence.
Bird: Yes.
J.Smith: And, like I said, there is no -- as far as the trees are concerned, they will give
us no protection whatsoever in that buffer between our back fence and their back fence
and so I'm -- the point that I'm making is we have nothing but a metal building back
there. I would like to see some kind of buffer put back there.
Bird: What kind of buffer?
J.Smith: Well –
Bird: Trees?
J.Smith: Trees or a berm would look nice back there. If there is noise that's involved in
it -- because any kind of papers or anything that's going to come loose is going to lay
directly up against the fence, which does now, because it's going to be whatever the
length of that building is back there. Our property -- our back yard borders quite a
distance of that building.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Mrs. Stiles, this is I think -- I guess the third time we have heard this project.
Once at Planning and Zoning and now twice here at Council and I don't recall ever
having any discussion about trees in the back of that building at all and I don't know
how far the setback is, but I don't know if it's big enough have very big trees in the back
of that building anyway. Do you know how much space there is back there?
Stiles: I believe the setback is about 40 feet. But what the plan is currently showing is
a pond -- retention pond apparently for drainage with some lawn and cobble.
J.Smith: Is the pond in the back of the -- is the pond in the back of the building, Shari?
Stiles: Yes.
Bird: Between your property and theirs -- and the building is the retention pond.
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February 5, 2002
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J.Smith: Where is the pond? It's in the back of your building? And how often does it
have water in it?
Corrie: Go ahead and speak up. He can't hear you.
J.Smith: Where does this pond drain?
Banks: Into the ground. It's a retention pond. The rain water comes off --
J.Smith: Well, we did have a sump pump that we had to run continuously from the
irrigation back there. If there is too much of a problem, which I don't know how watch
water there is going to be back there in this pond, our yard slopes -- this slopes right
down into our backyard into our basement when they put a pond back here. I wasn't
aware that there was a pond or anything, because I have had no contact with Mr. Banks
and I wasn't aware that there was a pond back there. I don't know if they are planning
on -- is he planning on irrigating out of this pond?
Banks: No. This is retention for run-off water that happens to --
J.Smith: Well, Mr. Barnes irrigates out of his out in front and that's why I asked that
question.
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor, maybe Gary can explain what the retention pond's purpose is
and -- in looking at its design, you would assume that this wouldn't run into any other
property; is that correct?
G. Smith: Yes. Councilmember de Weerd, Mayor, and Council, the storm drain
retention pond is designed to contain all storm water on site and it's not released to
adjoining properties. The Highway District will not allow storm drainage from developed
properties, commercial sites, to enter their right of way, so it's all retained on site. And
typically it's -- the retention pond is designed such that the water will percolate down
into the ground from the holding basin, the depressed area.
J.Smith: May I ask a question? Mr. Smith, there is a hard pan layer out there that we
have had problems with. Will it penetrate the hard pan?
G. Smith: Well, it won't -- the pond would have to be constructed such that the gravels
go -- that are installed in the pond will go through the hard pan layer and down into
natural sand and gravels. That's the only way the water can percolate away. So they
will have to disturb the hard pan layer.
J.Smith: So this is not going to disturb our aquifer for our well that's in the back that's
only probably about ten feet from the back is fence?
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February 5, 2002
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G. Smith: Disturb it in what manner?
J.Smith: Well, it's going to be sediment. Will there be any kind of oil or anything like
that that will go down into the aquifer?
G. Smith: There is a requirement that before the water is introduced into the retention
pond it needs to be collected through a sand and grease trap or it's grass lined, what
they call a bio swale, which will collect the sediments.
J.Smith: So there is no way that it can get down in the aquifer?
G. Smith: No way that --
J.Smith: It can get into the water -- into our drinking water, our supply of water?
G. Smith: Well, how deep is your well?
J.Smith: 102 feet.
G. Smith: Typically in this area, anyway, when wells are drilled, we find a clay layer
somewhere around 50 to 60 feet in depth that separates this upper groundwater aquifer
from the lower aquifers. Your well is probably deeper than a lot of older wells are.
J.Smith: We have some that are much more shallow than that in the neighborhood.
G. Smith: Right. Right.
J.Smith: There are some that are below 100 feet. I think some are 50 -- they had to
redrill further down, but some of them was only about 60 feet and I don't know what the
house next door is for sure.
G. Smith: I'm not -- I can't sit here and guarantee that there is not going to be any
contamination, because that's a very difficult thing to guarantee. It depends how your
well was drilled. I doubt very seriously that there were any seals -- that the well casing
was sealed beyond just a surface 10 or 20 foot deep surface seal and so -- I mean
there are other areas of -- or other ways that contaminants could find their way into your
well.
J.Smith: We have had it checked and we haven't had any problem with it so far. It was
checked last fall.
G. Smith: The best management practices are observed for onsite retention ponds and
storm water disposal and those would be applied to this development as we apply
those standards to all commercial developments that are required to contain their storm
water on site.
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February 5, 2002
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J.Smith: Does this run the full length of that property? The full length of that building?
G. Smith: What's that?
J.Smith: The pond.
Smith: I don't know. The pond would have to be sized such that it would be large
enough to contain the --
J.Smith: Well, if they could move –
G. Smith: -- hundred year storm.
J.Smith: If they could move it so that it doesn't slope towards the well, it would be much
better. But if it's going to be from our property line the length -- and it looks like it goes
almost the full length of this -- I'm not an engineer, I can't read these maps as well as
other people can, but –
Smith: Mrs. Smith, there is an existing 20 foot planting strip between this project's east
boundary and your property line; is that correct?
J.Smith: Yes.
G. Smith: And then your well is located how far from your west property line?
J.Smith: Probably 20 feet.
G. Smith: Okay.
J.Smith: Or maybe not quite that far. Maybe 15 feet.
G. Smith: So your well is 35 to 40 feet east of the eastern boundary of this
development, then, approximately?
J.Smith: Well, the 20 feet -- and then you said -- how much is it from the building --
from the pond -- from the edge of the pond to the fence?
G. Smith: I don't know what the edge of the pond -- I don't know what the limits of the
pond are. They just have a retention pond showing that's grass lined for most of it and
then there is cobble shown around the grass. So I don't know what the details of that
pond actually look like, how much of the -- how much volume is going to be required in
that retention pond to contain the hundred year storm.
J.Smith: I think that should definitely be taken under consideration with -- up against
the residential where you have -- we are not on city water and sewer, because there is
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February 5, 2002
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possibility of contamination. And the landscaping is around it. I'd like you to consider
it, please.
Corrie: Shari, I don't know -- we can't make the applicant pay for the landscaping back
there that's already done by Barnes, isn't it? It's part of their original plat; is that
correct?
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, as part of the Conditional Use Permit you can put
additional requirements on the development to mitigate the impact of that development.
I don't -- I'm not sure, but -- Mrs. Smith can answer this, but I think that she's talking
about some plants adjacent to the building to soften the effect of that building.
J.Smith: That's correct.
Corrie: Okay. Anything else?
J.Smith: No.
Corrie: Council, questions?
Bird: Mrs. Smith, you're talking about some trees along the back of the building there to
--
J.Smith: Yes, to --
Bird: Between it and the pond?
J.Smith: Pardon?
Bird: Between the building and the pond.
Nary: Mr. Mayor, so I'm clear, is this the side of the building or is this the back of the
building?
Bird: It's the back.
Nary: The loading dock is --
Bird: The loading dock is on the north.
Nary: The Smiths live on the east side of this building and the loading dock is on the
north side of the building. This is the side of the building? The back of the building?
J.Smith: On the back of the building. Yes.
Bird: The east elevation. Yes. Is that the back of the --
Meridian City Council Meeting
February 5, 2002
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Banks: This is the back of the building. The retention pond is right here.
Nary: But on the west side of the building it says there is a berm and grass on that side.
Bird: That's the front of the building.
Nary: Oh. Okay.
J.Smith: If you landscape it from the building that when people -- we are going to be
looking at it all the time and I think it's only fair that we get some landscaping in back for
the residential back there.
Corrie: Isn't there only landscaping back there 20 feet from whole residence that you're
going from the north to the south -- or west side. North to south. Isn't there trees there
already?
Bird: Yes.
J.Smith: Yes, Mr. Corrie, there are, but they are probably six to eight feet apart and I
mentioned in the beginning that some of them were three feet high and some of them
are dead now and landscaping isn't what I -- there is holes in the landscaping about that
deep out there. It was done properly in the beginning and we -- none of us will live to
see those trees big enough that it's going to give us any kind of benefit back there as
far as landscaping is concerned.
Corrie: Okay. Any other questions?
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Any questions from Council? Okay. Thank you. We will have you last. Is there
anyone else from the public that would like to testify in this continued Public Hearing?
Okay. Now you can.
Banks: Just to respond to Mrs. Smith's concern about contamination in the pond. You
will recall that there are no vehicles in the back of that building. The only contamination
is going to falling out of the sky. If the rainwater is dirty, then that's the contamination.
It's only rain water and it's only for a catch basin. It would seem to me like the
landscaping responsibility was the developer's and I think as far as us landscaping
more, I think we might have a utility easement issue. I don't think we can plant trees
back there. I think we looked at that at one time.
Bird: Right. Right.
Banks: Thank you.
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February 5, 2002
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Corrie: Council, any further discussion?
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I guess I'm curious by Mr. Banks' statement, though, if there are already trees
there, why can't they plant more trees there?
Bird: I think if you go inside that plat -- inside where they are now, there is a water --
Nary: A water line?
Bird: Yes. Irrigation water line going down there.
Nary: Well, I guess what I'm thinking is what Mrs. Smith is saying is that there are
already trees there and some of them are dead, can't you replace those trees?
De Weerd: In the existing –
Nary: In the existing 20 feet, replace those trees, to soften -- I mean it would have been
better if this had been brought up previously at -- either at Planning and Zoning or
before tonight, but Mrs. Stiles is right, I mean certainly to soften the appearance of this
very long metal building on the back of the property, it would not be unreasonable to
have shrubs and trees of some sort. If there are existing trees, at least some dead
ones, they can certainly replace them, at least to assist the neighbors in softening the
appearance of this long building.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: But if we are replacing within an existing planting strip, that was -- that planting
strip was put in by the developer at the time of the development of this and I would think
that he would have to -- have to maintain it and I'm sure Mr. Banks is buying or has
already purchased the ground from this developer. I would think that he would have the
leverage to -- I don't believe the Council probably has any leverage anymore to make
that updated, but I would think as a purchaser of the property he would have some
leverage on the developer to do that.
Nary: Well, Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Mr. Bird, we would have leverage. It's Mr. Banks' CUP and if we require the trees
there, whether Mr. Banks put them in or he gets Mr. Barnes to put them back, doesn't
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February 5, 2002
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really matter to us and it doesn't really to Mrs. Smith, but it is his CUP that he wants, so,
you know, we can require those trees be there. Whoever puts them there really isn't
our concern.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: That's true, but you're giving a CUP and you're putting conditions on ground he
doesn’t even own, which I don't agree with. This is something that -- that we need --
that the developer -- this ground -- Mr. Banks has not purchased this 20 feet of planting
strip and --
Nary: Isn't he installing this retention pond?
Bird: He is, but that's his property. That 20 strip -- existing 20 strip I don't believe is in
his -- in his property, is it?
Banks: My understanding is there is a 20 feet strip between my retention pond and the
Smith property, which belongs to the development. I don't own that, so I don't have –
J.Smith: That's correct.
Bird: Is that correct?
Corrie: Shari?
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, that is a 20 foot wide planting strip that is to be owned
and maintain by all of the developers within that subdivision. That's the responsibility of
the entire subdivision, every property owner within that subdivision.
Banks: It would seem to me that when I pay my yearly fee to the developer, that fee
should go to maintain that 20 feet strip; correct?
Corrie: What's your development agreement with your developer?
Banks: I'm not sure. I'm not sure.
Nary: Well -- Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I guess I have a different question, then, for Mrs. Stiles. Is what -- was this
development done by CUP? Is the enforcement mechanism for the City, then, a code
enforcement issue, because the developer is not maintaining the landscaping as
required and the CUP for this whole development, not just Mr. Banks' piece, the entire
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February 5, 2002
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development, and if he's not, then is there a mechanism that we can use to put these
trees back, so that these trees that are there can get replaced that are dead.
Stiles: It's a continual enforcement problem. It has been from day one out there. There
is dead ones out there now?
J.Smith: Yes. There is one out there behind the house that's dead.
Corrie: Hold it. Wait a minute. Let's don't get in conversations back and forth. If you
want to ask a question, let's ask the question and have them come up here.
Stiles: We'd need to go and look and see what was there. I mean they didn't have a lot
of requirements as far as -- they did have a certain number of six foot trees they were to
plant out there. Some of the trees they have had to replace. They were less than six
foot high. It was prepared very poorly. There was no grading of any kind done. It's very
difficult to even walk out there, let alone mow it. But at that time we had no standards
for how that was to be done. The basic standard was, you know, put this many trees
there.
Corrie: We still have a hammer. They've got to have that many trees anyway to put
back in there.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Shari, our enforcement through the city and through the CUP that we passed that
development on is with the developer, not with the association or anything like that, is
it? So we -- our enforcement is to the developer, the gentleman that -- or the group that
developed the property is the one that got the CUP, that was given the restriction of
what he had to do and all this stuff, it wasn't the association or -- as you said, the
association was supposed to be taking care of it. Is that not right?
Stiles: Once that property is turned over to the home -- or to the building owners, the
property owner's association -- and I don't know if that has happened -- it would be the
responsibility of each --
Bird: Now what we passed was with the developer, not with some association, so legally
we can only go back on the developer that has -- that got the deal.
Stiles: All the successors are bound by that.
Bird: Okay.
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February 5, 2002
Page 44 of 88
Stiles: And there was -- I forgot answer you before, Mr. Nary, that the Conditional Use
Permit applied to specific lots within this subdivision and those were the lots that were
adjacent to residential. So that's the reason these are also Conditional Use Permits.
Nary: So there is a mechanism for the City if the developer isn't replacing those trees
or maintaining that property, whether it's the developer or the homeowners association,
to revoke the Conditional Use Permit for that property. Are those common lots?
Stiles: It is common lot.
Nary: So if we revoke the conditional use of that property because they are failing to
maintain the landscaping requirements on it -- I know that's an extreme result, but say
that were to happen, what would be the result to Mr. Banks or the other business
owners in that business park?
Stiles: The only ones with Conditional Use Permits would be those adjacent to the
residential and that wouldn't affect the entire subdivision.
Nary: So Mr. Banks is adjacent to residential, so how would have affect Mr. Banks?
Stiles: I guess if you revoke the Conditional Use Permit he can't operate.
Nichols: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, I'd like to ask a question of Shari. Shari,
was the subdivision developed under CUP or was it platted with the requirement that
those lots adjacent to the residential area be processed through the CUP process?
Stiles: It was platted with the requirement that those go through the CUP process.
There is also a Development Agreement on the property that requires it to be
maintained.
Nichols: Okay. So we have -- but as far as -- but the subdivision wasn't a Conditional
Permit that could be revoked or modified or whatever, it's just the requirement that each
of those lots on the east boundary have to go through the conditional use process in
order to mitigate effects with regard to the residences and so forth; correct?
Stiles: Not all of them on that boundary, but some of those lots on that boundary.
Nichols: Okay. Including this lot in question?
Stiles: Yes.
Meridian City Council Meeting
February 5, 2002
Page 45 of 88
Nichols: And that's why he's here seeking the Conditional Use Permit, even though it's
already zoned appropriately for his use?
Stiles: Yes.
Nichols: So we have a development agreement that requires maintenance of this
common area by the developer and the developer's assigns, which would include the
property owners association once all of the lots have been sold; is that correct?
Stiles: Yes.
Nichols: And if I may, Mr. Mayor, ask questions of Mr. Banks. Have you already
purchased this property, Mr. Banks?
Banks: Yes.
Nichols: Okay. And, Mr. Banks, when you purchased the property did you become,
then, a member of this association?
Banks: Yes. I believe so. I don't have a problem taking care of the property that I
bought. I just don't want to take care of the whole development.
Nichols: Mr. Banks, are you assessed fees for membership in that association?
Banks: You know, I think I am. I don't know that for sure.
Nichols: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, maybe the way to -- the solution to this is
enforcement of the Development Agreement and the building owners association can
work with the developer to replace the dead trees and approve that part of it and not
necessarily put it into the conditional uses, but the City has some enforcement power to
the Development Agreement and Mr. Banks knows that he -- if he's a member, then he
has some rights within that association to require that those dead -- you know, his
money be appropriately used.
Corrie: Okay. Very good. Thank you, Mr. Banks. Any other discussion?
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: Shari, in looking at this landscape plan, does this meet the requirements?
Stiles: I haven't reviewed it entirely, but it appears to meet it. At least the
recommendation of the Planning and Zoning Commission, they did request some
additional trees along the northern boundary, one for every 35 feet. I guess I hesitated
Meridian City Council Meeting
February 5, 2002
Page 46 of 88
in your response about the 20 feet in just enforcing it. I don't think even enforcing it is
going to help the Smiths.
De Weerd: But with the retention pond on the backside of that building, you can't -- or
you can't plant plantings within a retention pond area, can you?
Stiles: You could, but I do believe that there is quite a large irrigation ditch that's been
piped through there.
De Weerd: Yes. It's shown on this map.
Stiles: I don't know how deep they can go with the retention pond when that irrigation
ditch is there either, but --
De Weerd: It looks like it's just -- well, I don't have a measurement thing with me, but it
runs very close to the property line. Within five feet it looks like. So any trees that would
be planted would have to be planted within the existing 20 foot landscape strip.
Corrie: Any other questions?
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Okay. Not hearing any further questions, I'll entertain a motion, then, to close the
Public Hearing, if Council so agrees.
Nary: I would so move to close the Public Hearing.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded to the close Public Hearing on the CUP
request. Any further discussion? All those in favor of the motion say aye. Opposed no.
All ayes. Motion carried. The Public Hearing is now closed.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: Discussion on the request?
Nary: Well, Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I guess I'll start. It appears -- I think Mr. Bird's last comment was probably where
the issue really lies. I don't think there is a way on Mr. Banks' property to put trees and
shrubs that are going to have any impact on this building. It does appear that the
planting strip area is where that needs to be maintained and there is a mechanism and I
appreciate Mr. Nichols' comments, I think that's the method that our planning staff and
Meridian City Council Meeting
February 5, 2002
Page 47 of 88
the developer and those need to work together to get that properly done like it was
agreed to be done. I don't know how much help that is to the Smith's property or the
other properties adjacent, but it appears when this was approved that was the intent,
that that area was to help soften the impact of this particular project, because the idea
was that businesses such as Mr. Banks' were going to be built in this area and that
planting strip would, again, provide some buffer between the businesses and them.The
20 foot planting strip, the retention pond, the fact that it is the back of the building is
really -- reduces quite a bit for the noise issue that may, if at all, if any, from this
particular project. So I don't see any other reason not to approve this CUP as it's been
presented here. I think the other thing is a different mechanism and needs to be done
separately.
Corrie: Any other discussion from Council? Hearing none, then I'll entertain a motion.
Mr. Nary.
Nary: Mr. Mayor, I'd move the approval of CUP 01-035, a request for Conditional Use
Permit for the construction of a building to be used for wholesale building material
distribution in an I-L zone for Intermountain Wood Products by the Banks Group, LLC,
south of East Franklin Road and west of South Locust Grove, for our attorney to
prepare Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for us approve based upon the staff
report and from comments at the hearing.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made by Mr. Nary and seconded by Mr. Bird to approve
the Conditional Use Permit 01-035, based upon the staff's information and the Public
Hearing. Have the attorney draw up the proper Findings of Facts and Conclusions of
Law. Any further discussion? Mr. Nary.
Nary: Just one more thing. I don't want Mrs. Smith to leave thinking we didn't hear you,
because I think we did, and I do think there is a method to do that and I think our
Council has presented a good method that our staff can work with you and the
development -- the developer, because we do have some other mechanisms other than
this to deal with some of the problems that you have with the way this is and some of
those trees and the shrubbery that's supposed to be there, so I don't want you to think
we didn't hear it.
J.Smith: May I make a comment?
Corrie: No.
Nary: Not right now.
Corrie: Any other discussion?
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
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February 5, 2002
Page 48 of 88
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I guess the only direction to the staff that this be pursued and if we could get
an update at our workshop in March, on March 12th
, that would be appreciated.
Stiles: I can let you know -- I can let you know -- oh, sorry.
Corrie: Is your mike off or am I going deaf? Or both.
Stiles: We can let you know next Tuesday.
De Weerd: Okay.
Corrie: I was going to say you could do it quicker than that.
Stiles: Yes. I have been working with Jim Boyd every time I had a problem out there
and it's every summer.
De Weerd: Just as long as you make sure that this item came up and the issuance of
this Conditional Use Permit and we have serious concerns about the conditions out
there and we'd like to have their written response to look at it at our workshop.
Stiles: Would you like them present or --
Corrie: It would help.
De Weerd: That probably would send a stronger statement. I'll get it on the workshop if
you will give them a call.
Corrie: If you can get them to come. I suppose we could subpoena them, but I don't
think that would be a good idea. But I think they will come. If you can do that, I will
converse with you the rest of this week on --
Stiles: Okay.
Corrie: Okay. We still have a motion before the Chair. Any further discussion? Okay.
Roll call vote, Mr. Berg.
Role Call: Bird, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Nary, aye.
Corrie: All ayes. Motion is carried on CUP 01-035.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Meridian City Council Meeting
February 5, 2002
Page 49 of 88
Item 10: Public Hearing: AZ 01-022 Request for annexation and zoning of 22.66
acres-from R-1 to C-G zones for Queenland Acres by White-Leasure
Development, Co. - southeast corner of South Stoddard Road and West
Overland Road:
Corrie: Item No. 10 is a Public Hearing. This is a request for annexation and zoning of
22.66 acres from an R-1 to C-G zone for Queenland Acres by White-Riedel
Development Company, southeast corner of South Stoddard Road and West Overland
Road. At this time I will open the Public Hearing on the request for annexation and
zoning and staff comments first.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, this property was the subject of a Comprehensive Plan
amendment back when we did the several requests at one time. This was -- they had
requested it change to commercial and it was approved as mixed plan use. This is
where the Overland -- or whatever they are calling this storage here that you have seen
recently and here is the Roho -- I'm not sure what you call that, but it's on Overland
Road. This is all of Bear Creek Subdivision. I believe their request is only for annexation
and zoning, there is no plan at this time. They have requested a -- they will -- we had
requested that they do a Development Agreement associated with it. There are some
lots or potential lots in the back on the southern part of the property that will not be
sewerable until a future trunk line comes through, I believe the second -- Black Cat
Trunk is extended and they are aware of that. We would request that all of the uses be
developed under the Conditional Use Permit process and also that they enter into a
condition of the re-zone and annexation that they enter into a hold-harmless agreement
with the City for not being able to develop those back lots and that's all I had.
Corrie: Comments from Council?
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Okay. This is a Public Hearing. The developer first. Raise your right hand,
please. Is the testimony you're about to give will be the whole truth and nothing but the
truth, so help you God?
Huber: I do.
Corrie: Name and address, please.
Huber: My name is Jeff Huber. My address is 416 South Eighth Street in Boise and I
represent White-Leisure Development Company, which is the applicant, not White-
Riedel, Mr. Mayor. We are in agreement with the staff report. There is just a couple of
clarifications that I'd like to make. The property -- in your staff report it says that it's
currently zoned R-1. Well, it's currently zoned mixed use. It's designated as general
commercial in your Comprehensive Plan, which I don't think you have passed yet, but
we envision this property and we have in our request -- in our letter of justification we
did note for the record that we feel that this property lends itself to office, warehouse,
Meridian City Council Meeting
February 5, 2002
Page 50 of 88
manufacturing type uses and as well as some retail commercial uses on the --
bordering Overland Road and perhaps on the corner of Stoddard and Overland. So in
speaking with staff we -- staff recommended that we request the general commercial
and put the requirement for a Development Agreement and conditional uses for each
use that will go on this property in there, which gives the City flexibility and control over
the property and we will certainly have strict clarification on landscape, I'm sure. So
those are the two clarifications I wanted to make and in our letter it does -- it does say
that we feel it's best suited for office, warehouse, manufacturing type uses. I think the
better commercial uses are on the corner of Meridian Road where currently the County
Corner Store is and the property adjacent to that, if you're talking shopping center uses
or a grocery store type use or something like that. Not to say that somewhere down the
road a commercial use of that type couldn't go on this property either, but we see it
being developed as sort of a corporate campus type development that you see along
Emerald Street being Five Mile and Milwaukee Street or Five Mile and Maple Grove,
those types of uses and those are the types of uses we will probably be coming back to
you with in the future. If there is any questions I certainly would be happy to answer
them.
Corrie: Let me start and apologize for saying White-Riedel. White-Leisure. Evidently
my glasses need changed here. It's about time. So I do apologize.
Huber: Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Okay. Any questions from staff and questions from Council?
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Okay. Thank you. Do we have anybody signed up for the Public Hearing? Okay.
Is there anyone here in the audience that would like to issue testimony here tonight on
this request? Okay. Staff?
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, I have -- just to clarify Mr. Huber's testimony, the property
is zoned R-1 and RUT. Those are the zonings that exist in Ada County. What Mr. Huber
is referring to is the designation on the Comprehensive Plan map and I want to make
sure that they know the distinction that just because it's shown on the Comp Plan map
that doesn't mean it's zoned to reflect that future land use. So that's all I had.
Corrie: Okay. And let the record show that he is in agreement with that, Shari.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Just as a clarification on No. 10 on the recommendation, Shari, it says it's -- it
requests zoning to C-G, which is in the Comprehensive Plan generalized land use map.
Is that the current one that's in effect or is it the one that's proposed that hasn't been --
Meridian City Council Meeting
February 5, 2002
Page 51 of 88
Stiles: That is the current one that's in effect.
Nary: Great. And that's what I thought it was. I just wanted to make sure.
Corrie: Thank you, Mr. Nary. Any other questions?
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Okay. Hearing none, I would entertain a motion to close the Public Hearing on
Item No. 10.
De Weerd: I move we close the Public Hearing.
McCandless: Second.
Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded to close the Public Hearing on Greenland
Acres by White-Leisure Development Company. Further comments? All in favor of the
motion say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: Further discussion?
De Weerd: I have none.
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Okay. Hearing no further discussion, I would entertain a motion on the request
for annexation and zoning.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I move we approve AZ 01-022, request for annexation and zoning of 22.66
acres from R-1 to C-G zone for Queenland Acres. Ask the attorney to draw up the
Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision of Order and to include all staff
comments and the P&Z recommendation.
Nary: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made by Mrs. de Weerd and second by Mr. Nary to
approve the request for annexation and zoning of the Queenland Acres and for the
attorney to draw up the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law with all staff
Meridian City Council Meeting
February 5, 2002
Page 52 of 88
comments of Planning and Zoning, as well as testimony. Any further discussion?
Hearing none, Mr. Berg, if you will give us a roll call vote, please.
Role Call: Bird, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Nary, aye.
Corrie: All ayes. Motion is carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 11: Public Hearing: AZ 01-024 Request for annexation and zoning of 4.0
acres from M-I to I-L zones for Idaho Trucking Specialties by Victory
Properties LLC - 600 N. Eagle Road:
Corrie: Item No. 11 is a Public Hearing. This is a request for an annexation and zoning
of 4.0 acres from M-I to I-L zones for Idaho Trucking Specialists by Victory Properties,
LLC, 600 North Eagle Road. At this time I will open the Public Hearing and invite staff
comments first.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor, Council, this is where the property that's located immediately north of
the Coors Distributing Company that was recently annexed. This will basically get rid of
the enclave that existed there and we are glad to have Idaho Truck Specialties within
the City of Meridian. There were two -- well, there is several of the requirements for the
-- in the recommendation to the City Council from P&Z. I would like to maybe add a
couple of clarifications and see if that's what you would like to move on. On page two of
the recommendation, paragraph four, line three, I would recommend you stipulate a
detached five foot wide sidewalk and on page three, paragraph five, where it
discussions the signage, the billboard sign, that the signage on the property shall be
subject to the sign ordinance upon redevelopment or change of use and I'd like to add
that additional -- any proposed additional signage will be subject to the sign ordinance,
regardless of whether they are redeveloping and changing the use. And with that I'd ask
that you approve the annexation and zoning with all staff and agency conditions.
Corrie: Council, questions for staff?
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Shari, on your amendment essentially -- or I guess in addition to number five,
about any proposed new signage, isn't number eight -- doesn't that take into that? Isn't
that already covered?
Stiles: Oh, I'm sorry. Yes, it does.
Nary: Okay. So we really just need to amend or add onto number four as attached.
Meridian City Council Meeting
February 5, 2002
Page 53 of 88
Stiles: Yes. Thank you.
Nary: Okay. Thank you.
Corrie: This is a Public Hearing. Is the applicant here tonight? Yes, sir. Raise your right
hand. Is the testimony you're about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
the truth, so help you God?
Hayden: Yes, sir.
Corrie: Your name and address, please.
Hayden: Terry Hayden, 6508 West Wintergard, Boise, Idaho. We don't have any
problems with the requirements laid out in the proposal.
Corrie: Okay. Thank you.
De Weerd: That was easy.
Corrie: Anyone else from the public like to issue testimony? Okay. Moving right along.
Okay. Hearing none, any comments from staff or Council for our Public Hearing record?
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I move we close the Public Hearing.
Bird: I second.
Corrie: Motion has been made to close the Public Hearing on Item No. 11. Further
discussion? All those in favor of the motion say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: Discussion on the request for annexation? Hearing none, I'll entertain a motion,
then, for the recommendation of the staff.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I move we approve the request for annexation and zoning of 4.0 acres from
M-1 to I-L zones for Idaho Trucking Specialties, to note on Item 4, page two, the
detached sidewalks and to ask the attorney to draw up Findings of Facts and
Conclusions of Law and Decision of Order.
Meridian City Council Meeting
February 5, 2002
Page 54 of 88
McCandless: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded to approve the request for
annexation and zoning for Idaho Trucking Specialties to include the staff's comments
and to have the attorney draw up the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law. Any
further discussion? Hearing none, roll call vote, Mr. Berg.
Role Call: Bird, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Nary, aye.
Corrie: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 12: Public Hearing: RZ 01-007 Request for rezone of 3.35 acres from R-8 to
C-C zones for Sol C. Yaun by Hubble Engineering Inc. - 725 East
Fairview Avenue:
Corrie: Item No. 12 is a Public Hearing. This is a request for a rezone of 3.35 acres
from an R-8 to C-G zone for Sol C. Yaun by Hubble Engineering, Inc., 725 East
Fairview Avenue. I will open the Public Hearing at this time and invite staff's comments
first.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, this is for the property that's located north of Creekside
Arbor Apartments that's been recently developed. Next to it is the Meridian Car Sales,
Meridian Auto Sales. Right here is Ultra-Touch Car Wash. This is a driveway that enters
into the apartments. This I believe is where Ponderosa Paint is located and we have the
mobile home park back here. In looking at the recommendations from Planning and
Zoning Commission, there -- the staff conditions were not included in this
recommendation. I don't know if that was on purpose or what exactly the motion was,
but we would ask that you include staff comments as part of the recommendation or in
your finding and conditions of approval. The staff report, however, does make several
references to L-O. Every place within those comments that L-O should be changed to
C-C. That's what the applicant has requested. Also this is shown as a mixed planned
used area within the Comprehensive Plan. We would ask that all uses on the property
shall require a Conditional Use Permit. There is a significant portion of this property that
is within the flood plain. Five Mile Creek runs along here. There is a -- this is part of
the other subdivision. The road does exist on the east side of the Five Mile Creek and it
is our hope that that is a future pathway location and we can deal with that as part of
the Conditional Use, but I believe the road still continues through there, if I'm not
mistaken. I don't know if they can access it from the roadway going to the plan -- or the
Creekside Arbor Apartments. There is reference in the recommendation to a sewer
easement that will be needed for a relief line and they would need to work with Public
Works Department on that. We would recommend that the request for rezone to -- from
R-8 to C-C be approved with all staff and agency conditions.
Meridian City Council Meeting
February 5, 2002
Page 55 of 88
Corrie: Any questions? Is the applicant here this evening? Is the testimony you're about
to give tonight the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Carter: Yes, sir.
Corrie: Okay. Give your name and address, please.
Carter: My name is Greg Carter with Hubble Engineering. My home address is 3203
East Greenhurst Drive in Nampa. We have -- well, Mrs. Stiles, could I ask you one
question? The only thing I have not heard yet that you mentioned that you would like to
maybe extend a road up through this piece? Is that what I understood? Or was it sewer
that you would like --
Stiles: I was referring to the sewer easement that the Public Works Department needs
for a relief line in that area.
Carter: Okay. So there is no recommendation to connect the road up through that
parcel to Fairview?
Stiles: The pathway.
Carter: As in walking path?
Stiles: Walking path.
Carter: Okay. Along Five Mile.
Stiles: Yes.
Carter: Okay. For some reason I thought you said a road.
Stiles: I think -- I believe -- excuse me. I think there is a road -- I'm not sure if it exists
there, but I don't know where Nampa-Meridian accesses that to maintain it.
Carter: Yes. But, you know, that would be something that we would have to maintain if
they -- you know, their road is on our side. I'm sure that --
Stiles: If it exists.
Carter: Yes. I don't think it does. I don't think there is a road off of Fairview down into
-- I guess that clarifies that. A couple other clarifications in this package. There is few
places where it's noted that we want to rezone to C-G. I guess if you see that in there,
make a note that it's actually C-C, so that we don't rezone the wrong zone. Other than
that, I'll entertain any questions.
Corrie: Okay. Any questions?
Meridian City Council Meeting
February 5, 2002
Page 56 of 88
Nary: I have none.
Corrie: She did mention that. Okay. All right. Thank you, Greg. Is there anyone from the
audience that would like to issue testimony tonight? Okay. Hearing none --
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: Shari, in your staff recommendations there aren't any -- there isn't anything
noted for the recommendation by P&Z to have adopted. There is a note about the
easement on Five Mile Creek, but outside of that that's the only thing in the staff
comments.
Stiles: The staff comments, if you will note, for example, under C on page two, it does
say that the property is located within a mixed plan use development section of the
Comprehensive Plan land use map use. All uses on this property shall require a
Conditional Use Permit.
De Weerd: So you have to kind of go in and extract it?
Stiles: Well, I guess so.
De Weerd: It usually reads a little easier for legal, I think, to pull those out, so --
Stiles: It's a little difficult when there is no proposal for any development, it's just a
request for annexation and zoning, so most of our -- you know, under Item G on page
three it does talk about this easement paralleling Five Mile Creek and that's probably
the extent of it. I did add in my testimony that part of my presentation tonight that that
Five Mile Creek is designated as a multiple use pathway and in the future we would like
to open discussions on how we might accommodate a pathway through there. But we
can talk about that as part of the Conditional Use.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Corrie: Any further discussion on the Public Hearing? Discussion? Hearing none, I'll
entertain a motion to close the Public Hearing on Item No. 12, the rezone request.
De Weerd: So moved.
McCandless: Second.
Corrie: Motion made and seconded to close the Public Hearing on the rezone request
by Hubble Engineering. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the
motion say aye. All ayes. Motion is carried.
Meridian City Council Meeting
February 5, 2002
Page 57 of 88
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: Further discussion? Okay. I'll entertain a motion on the request.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: It seems like the only one with a sore throat up here is the one making all
the motions, but I will move -- I move to approve the request for a rezone of 3.35 acres
from R-8 to C-C for -- I'm not even going to attempt the name -- for the application in
front of us, RZ 01-007 and to include all staff comments that were verbal here, as well
as hidden in the staff report, and ask the attorney to draw up Findings of Facts and
Conclusions of Law and Decision of Order.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mrs. de Weerd and seconded by Mr. Bird to approve the
request for rezone with staff comments and the attorney to draw up the Findings of
Facts and Conclusions of Law. Any further discussion? Hearing none, roll call vote, Mr.
Berg.
Role Call: Bird, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Nary, aye.
Corrie: All ayes. Motion is carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: I'm going to ask that we take about a ten-minute recess.
(Recess)
RECONVENED AT 9:10 P.M.
Item 13: Public Hearing: AZ 01-023 Request for annexation and zoning of 5.97
acres from RUT to R-4 zones for proposed Inglenook Subdivision by
Providence Development Group, LLC - 2720 South Locust Grove Road:
Item 14: Public Hearing: PP 01-023 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 20
building lots and 24 other lots in a proposed R-4 zone for proposed
Inglenook Subdivision by Providence Development Group, LLC - 2720
South Locust Grove Road:
Corrie: Are we on? We are on? Okay. I will call the meeting back to order at ten minutes
after 9:00. We have Item No. 13 and Item No. 14, which is Inglenook Subdivision, a
Meridian City Council Meeting
February 5, 2002
Page 58 of 88
Public Hearing. One is a request for annexation and zoning and the other is for a
request for a Preliminary Plat. So I will -- with Council's approval, I will open the Public
Hearing for both 13 and 14 and take testimony on both and see where we go. So at
this time I will open the Public Hearing on Items 13 and 14, request for annexation and
zoning of 5.97 acres from RUT to an R-4 zone for proposed Inglenook Subdivision by
Providence Development Group and also a request for Preliminary Plat approval of 20
building lots and 24 other lots in a proposed R-4 zone for proposed Inglenook
Subdivision. With that having been said, staff, invite your comments first.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, this subdivision recently -- or, actually, not that recently,
did come before you previously and it was denied -- at least the findings stated several
reasons for denying the project. It was that the open space wasn't well located. This is
the previous plat that you looked at. The only open space that was there, they proposed
a little strip, a pedestrian walkway back to some land adjacent to Nine Mile Creek,
which Council did not feel and feels that it was a really usable area and it was hidden
and they didn't -- just didn't think that was appropriate for this subdivision. Another
reason noted in the Council's decision and order was that the additional lots would
create unreasonable public safety issues and I think that was primarily due to the one
way in and no way out until adjacent development occurred. Mr. John Shipley's property
is to the south here and also felt that it would cause some development problems with
his property and in the recommendations from the Planning and Zoning Commission
we'd need to clarify that the Planning and Zoning Commission did recommend the
approval of the open space as they have changed it. This is now an open space lot that
they have proposed as part of the new plan. Virtually -- it virtually remains the same for
the rest of the plat. A typical R-4 development. So I believe -- I'm trying to find that --
excuse me just a moment. I'm looking at the wrong findings. I'm looking at the findings
for the Preliminary Plat or the recommendation to City Council from Planning and
Zoning Commission. It does include staff comments exactly as they were written.
Paragraph three on page three probably should just be deleted. It's not really a
recommendation, except to discuss the location and usability of that, because the
Planning and Zoning Commission did recommend that it be exact -- that the open
space stay as proposed. The main change is that open space reconfiguration. There is
a statement in here, it was based on a comment from the fire department that stated the
project shall be provided with two means of access from a main arterial. To meet that
condition without adjacent property joining in this development that would not be
possible. I guess Kenny could speak to that if he would. I'll let Kenny cover that
comment.
Bowers: Mayor Corrie and City Council Members, not knowing what's going to develop
on either side of this or when it will develop, we have to make a decision if we allow just
one road to be coming into a subdivision or out, I am not sure if our fire marshal had
seen the plans or knows the plans, that they have widened the entrance a little bit
coming that, so that might make a little difference to the fire marshal. Oh, it's got a
landscape island, so -- I don't know if you have any other questions. They have
provided a turnaround, though, at the end there as you can see.
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February 5, 2002
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Corrie: Kenny, on the Deputy Chief fire prevention, Joe Silva gave us a December 18th
-
- is that up to date as far as his request for this one?
Bowers: Yes, it would be. December 18th
. Thank you.
Corrie: Thank you. Any other staff comments?
Stiles: I have none, sir.
Corrie: Okay. Council have any comments, questions? This is a Public Hearing for the
annexation and zoning and also for the Preliminary Plat. Is the developer representative
here tonight? Raise your right hand. Will the testimony you're about to give be the truth,
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Ford-Rudel: Yes, sir.
Corrie: Your name and address, please.
Ford-Rudel: Good evening, Honorable Mayor and Members of the Council, my name is
Ashley Ford-Rudel, I am representing Providence Development Group. I am with
Hubble Engineering at 701 South Allen Street, Suite 102, in Meridian. I have three
areas of concern regarding the findings and the recommendation this evening. The first
item of concern is regarding Preliminary Plat Condition No. 25. The condition states the
project shall be provide two means of access from a main arterial. This was not a
condition of approval in the staff report, but when it was presented to the Commission,
the Commission recommended it as a condition. The site only has 268 feet of frontage
on Locust Grove. ACHD has only approved one public street access. It would not be
possible to develop this site with two entrances, nor would it meet the required offsets of
ACHD. Condition 29 goes on to say located the main entrance off Locust Grove Road
100 feet off the north property line as proposed. Even if we were able to acquire the
northern property or the southern property, ACHD would not allow us curb cuts on
Locust Grove Road due to the offset -- offsets. Excuse me. Our second area of
concern is Condition 14 of the annexation and rezone and Condition 30 under the
Preliminary Plat. These conditions reference incorrect lot numbers. The two lots that
should be referenced are Lot 8, Block 1, and Lot 1, Block 2. Our third area of concern
is comment three in the Preliminary Plat comments regarding the location of the open
space and an argument can be made that it be shifted to the west. The applicant has
agreed that open space is needed and has provided this on Lot 5, Block 2. With the
original application a year ago the applicant proposed a micropath to a common lot that
ran along Nine Mile Drain. With the application the applicant has increased the open
space to a . 42 acre lot as common space in the southeast corner of the parcel and has
reduced the number of available lots in order to provide the open space. There are
reasons as to why the open space is placed in this location, rather than in the center of
the subdivision. The first reason is because the possible pathway connection along the
Nine Mile Drain, which can eventually connect to Los Alamitos Subdivision to the north
and to Sherbrooke Hollow Subdivision to the south. Having the open space in
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February 5, 2002
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conjunction with the greenbelt will improve accessibility. The Parks Department is
requesting a ten foot pedestrian pathway on the eastern edge of the subdivision. We
also agree with the P&Z condition needing to pave the pathway if so desired. Second,
due to the parcel shape, this corner would provide the greatest amount of square
footage for open space, rather than placing it on a smaller lot in the middle of Block 1 or
3. Third, the open space is located at the end of the property, which will provide ample
safety from traffic. It is approximately 450 feet to the open space from Lot 2, Blocks 1
and 3. This is not a large development. Open spaces are considered a focus of a
neighborhood. There has been planning studies that state most dwellings should be
within a five minute walk, averaging roughly 2,000 feet of the center. Clearly, all the lots
in the Inglenook meet this requirement. As you are aware, the Council denied this
application in April 2001. One of the reasons was because of the open space, which I
have already discussed. Another reason was the creation of additional residential lots,
which would be unreasonable from a safety issue. This is an in-fill project with large-
scale development to the north, south, east and west and is located within the city limits
of Meridian. We have spoken to representatives of the fire department and the police
department in regards to the response times and both have stated that these services
can be accommodated. Other than the items I have mentioned, we are in agreement
with the P&Z Commission recommendation and request approval of this project and I
will be happy to stand for any questions.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Ms. Rudel, for the open space, what's the intent of what they are going to do
there? Is it just grass?
Ford-Rudel: It will be grass and sod. We will be providing some picnic tables. Right now
it's just preliminary. We haven't put anything concrete down as to what we will provide,
but definitely picnic tables and an area for the kids to kick around a soccer ball.
Nary: Thank you.
Corrie: Okay. Any other questions?
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Okay. Thank you. Is there anyone from the public that would like to testify at this
time? Mr. Shipley, please. Raise your right hand.
Shipley: John Shipley.
Corrie: Is the testimony you're about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
the truth, so help you God?
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Shipley: Yes, sir.
Corrie: Mr. Shipley.
Shipley: I live on the south side of this subdivision at 2770 South Locust Grove. I have
about five acres there. It's a little over five acres. The front of the property has already
been sold to ACHD for a widening of the road and I have a couple of different issues
that -- I just talked to Mr. Star, who is from Providence Development Company. Before
this was a Hubble development, so I guess they are hooked together one way or
another. My property is stubbed in on my south side to Sherbrooke Hollow and their
stub in don't even come close to lining up to it, the one that's already existing there. It
will make it sort of a pain in the neck if my property is developed, because where they
are proposing the stub is at that turnaround there and I think that maybe that ought to
be changed so it lines up to the stub in Sherbrooke Hollow. That would mean they
would have to change their design and everything, but then they have been trying to
buy my place for the last two or three years and I would sell it if they would come up
with enough money to replace it, but they don't want to replace it. They want me to deal
with lesser of a place and not as much land and I have looked at stuff clear in Sand
Hollow to try to get a cheaper price and it just don't do it. They are wanting to take my
home for less money and then they don't even want to pay for the moving expenses or
anything and I have got some other issues that they have never even come and talked
to me about, but I know for a fact that my drain field to my septic system goes under
that property, because when I redone the drain field in 1973, the man that dug it out and
put the rest of the new drain field on my property said, well, your drain field runs under
that property and I said, well, I didn't put it there, you know. I bought this place -- it's
been there since before the land was split up, you know. So what was done in the old
farming days out here is coming back to haunt me and I don't see where if I have to
hook up to the sewer or something, because they are going to dig into my drain field
that I should be -- have to do that for -- so they can have their subdivision and I tried to
explain this to the real estate man who was supposed to get me in touch with these
people. I didn't even know that Providence -- I thought it was Hubble and I called
Hubble back in the past and I got ahold of a Wayne Forey, I guess you guys know him,
he's working for Hubble, and I didn't get any relief from anybody on this. There is -- I got
irrigation water that pops over on that property, because it was all leveled as one field
back in the days when they were farming it and sometimes I need to burn a ditch or
something or a fence row along there and if they put them burnable fences around
there I can't do what I have to do, but I would really like to see this stub in lined up to
the stub that's already in my property from Sherbrooke Hollow and there is -- you know,
I could go on for a half an hour, but it isn't going to make any difference, you know. I
would like to work with people, but they didn't see a necessity to talk to me about it, they
just made me an offer on my property and it won't replace what I got. How do you --
takes you -- you move out of your home and -- where you have lived for -- since 1973
and you can't replace it for what they want to give you for it and, you know, so I will just
stay there and I think -- I really think it would be an advantage to have more than one
access into that subdivision, because when they put Sherbrooke Hollow in and Salmon
Rapids in they put that street up there near me and it really affects me when I'm trying
Meridian City Council Meeting
February 5, 2002
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to come out of my driveway, because people come ripping out of there and turn the
corner and it -- it's -- you know, it's dangerous, you know. Already somebody had to
miss me and they ran into somebody else, because they were missing me, because I
didn't see them and they were speeding. So it's just a matter of time before somebody
gets hurt up there. It's a safety issue, too, and if they had the whole property it would
be a lot better, but if they don't want to pay for it, why I can't leave. I can't take
something less for -- you know, I found a place recently and it was over twice as much
as what they are offering me for my place, you know, and it was only four and a half
acres. That's where I'm at and I'm stuck between a rock and a hard spot and I got to
deal with all this stuff continually, you know, so it hasn't been fun. The neighbor kids
burning hay stacks and all kinds of stuff. It's bad, you know.
Corrie: Okay. Mr. Shipley, thank you. Is there anyone else that would like to issue
testimony? Okay. If the developer has got some questions that -- probably that Council
may want to ask about some of the things he brought up.
Ford-Rudel: I think I can just address a couple of the issues Mr. Shipley brought up.
Regarding the streets, we are meeting ACHD requirements. They have approved both
the stub streets to the north and the south, which was actually where they required us
to put them, so we are meeting all their conditions. In regards to the irrigation water, we
will be piping wastewater water to the Five Mile Drain, we will be submitting irrigation
plans, drainage plans, so we will not be affecting any other property adversely and we
will be required by the city engineer.
Corrie: You say you're piping your waste -- the drain water directly into the ditch?
Ford-Rudel: Yes. There will be a pipe along the Five Mile ditch, from what I'm
understanding from the engineer.
Stiles: Nine Mile.
Ford-Rudel: Or Nine Mile. Excuse me.
Corrie: Okay. Are you aware of the drainage of the septic system into that area?
Ford-Rudel: I haven't been briefed on that. The project engineer has been working with
all the sewer plans, so -- any other questions?
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Ms. Rudel, I noticed on condition two on page two that there is a requirement
that a non-combustible fence be constructed along the Nine Mile Drain. Now what is
that in relation to what Mr. Shipley talked about in some ditch that he has to burn off of
Meridian City Council Meeting
February 5, 2002
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his property, his concern about having fencing that is -- a combustible fence to his
property? Is this different?
Ford-Rudel: This is different. Yes. The irrigation district has actually asked for non-
combustible fencing so when they do go burn the noxious weeds -- and they are afraid
that if it was a six foot high cedar fence then it would catch fire.
Nary: Sure.
Ford-Rudel: Mr. Shipley's fence didn't come up in the last hearing. We would be willing
to work with him on that and provide non-combustible fencing.
Corrie: Council, any other –
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
Nary: No.
Corrie: Where the cul-de-sac is, that's where the road would go down into Mr. Shipley's
property if it was sold; is that correct?
Ford-Rudel: Mayor Corrie that would be correct.
Corrie: Okay. Any other questions? Okay. Thank you very much.
Ford-Rudel: Thank you.
Corrie: Council, questions, discussion?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: Gary, can you tell me on -- how important is this that the stub lines up on
each side of Mr. Shipley's property?
Smith: Council member de Weerd, Mayor and Council, I don't know that -- well, let me
back up. I assume that the width of Mr. Shipley's property north and south is about the
same as the width of this parcel. No? It's narrower? Okay. I don't know how the layout
would work on Mr. Shipley's property. It appears that this development is just one street
in from Locust Grove with lots on each side of the street. I don't know how the layout
would work for Mr. Shipley's property and really how the connection between
Sherbrooke Hollow and this proposed project would work.
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De Weerd: Gary, before I make you go on too much longer --
Bird: She was talking about the sewer.
De Weerd: I was talking about stubbing the sewer in, why it --
Smith: Thank you.
De Weerd: Excuse me. I do have one other question. With Mr. Shipley's drainage field
and -- I mean how is this affected and is there some responsibility there if your drainage
overlaps onto someone else's property? How do we assure that this isn't going to affect
his system?
Smith: Right. Well, the concern would be that somebody would dig into it on this piece
of property and disrupt the operation of it, so if they know where it is or can find where it
is, it would appear to me that it would need to be relocated onto his property and off of
this proposed development. I don't know if there is some kind of a legal issue as far as
-- well, I don't know exactly how to address that, but from a logical standpoint it would
appear to me that it would need to be relocated onto his property. Now who does that,
who stands the expense of that relocation, I don't know, but from this developer's
standpoint I don't think that it should be a liability for someone buying a lot on this
project and the process of constructing something on that lot dig into this drain field.
De Weerd: Is that something, Mr. Attorney, that we should be considering in this
proposal or is this not within our scope?
Nichols: Councilwoman de Weerd, Mayor, Members of the Council, the issue about
some sort of encroachment of one lot onto another I think is an issue that really doesn't
address the land use context and the rules governing development. The question is
whether Mr. Shipley's drain field somehow acquired a prescriptive easement onto the
Inglenook Subdivision property and that's really an issue between Mr. Shipley and the
owners of that property, which may affect Providence's ability to develop those
particular lots onto which the drain field extends and it may, you know, behoove them to
relocate his drain field, but, by the same token, if it turns out that he does not have a
prescriptive easement, then he's -- unfortunately, he's stuck. But there is an argument
that could be made that he does have an easement, because the drain field was there
before the property was split. So it's really not an issue to a land use decision that this
Council needs to make.
De Weerd: Thank you. I appreciate you arguing both sides of that issue, though.
Corrie: Where did Shari go? Hi, Shari. Where that arrow is pointing, is Mr. Shipley's
property just north of that? Okay. How would that tie into the property in Inglenook
down at the other end? I mean I think -- see down here where the arrow -- thank you.
Right there is where the highway department says it needs to come in to come into that
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February 5, 2002
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property and now down here it's coming in down here. Now how are you going to get
from here to here? Mr. Shipley, do you own all that property right there?
Shipley: I own five acres in there and I'm --
Corrie: Come up here.
Shipley: I think it will probably mess up me when I need to subdivide if they don't put
the stub in right here. Right there. And we got a stub on the other side into the other
property that runs fairly close to the one in Sherbrooke Hollow. I suppose just a little off,
but it sort of -- it's kind of a Catch-22 for me. I hated to say anything about it, because
they have got their plans, but, on the other hand, nobody bothered to show me the
plans or call me in and have me look or ask any questions to me or anything, all they
wanted to do is buy my property for less than what I could replace it for.
Corrie: Okay.
Shipley: And we are having this conversation now, because of their inability to
communicate, and it was Hubble before and now it's Providence and I'm kind of -- you
know, I got a whole knew -- and the fence issue did come up when Hubble was trying to
do it, because I wanted to put a chain link fence along there so that when you got to
burn fence rows and that and you got cattle out there, you know, why -- and Sherbrooke
Hollow went ahead and put all those wood fences up against the chain link fence
anyway, so I still -- you know, they did it anyway, no matter what I said, so --
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Shari, go back to the site. There, Okay. That bottom south, that is all your
property?
Shipley: That's it. Yes.
Bird: That's yours.
Shipley: It's a long narrow --
Bird: It's the long narrow one.
Shipley: It's like 95 foot wide and goes back there a quarter of a mile or so. More than
a quarter of a mile. It's hard to --
Bird: Come up here. Come up here and -- I want to ask some more questions.
Meridian City Council Meeting
February 5, 2002
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Shipley: It's hard for me to subdivide that if they put a stub in over there, because then
that -- it screws up me.
Bird: Well --
Shipley: And also I had the place sold at one time and because the man found out they
were building subdivisions all around me, he backed out of the thing, so -- he wanted it
for horses and his kids and that kind of stuff and it's an acreage and they are building
hundreds of houses around me now and the city moved out to me and I was in the
country and I'll get up and move, but I need to have enough money to replace it and
they need to kind of come up with some money for the moving expenses and all the
hassle that -- you know, but it's -- it's poorly designed for the area and I don't see where
it's safe or anything else, as far anything else.
Nichols: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: Mr. Mayor, perhaps I can ask some questions of Mrs. Stiles. What would be the
street right of way requirement in a subdivision? Isn't it 36 foot wide -- what's the
average street right of way for a residential street?
Stiles: A local street is a 50-foot right of way.
Nichols: Okay. So he has 95 feet from the north boundary to the south boundary of his
lot. If he had a street down through the middle, he wouldn't have enough lot depth to
put lots on two sides of the street.
Stiles: I don't know what you would do with it.
Nichols: So the only possible development would be essentially a single depth, one
row of lots on either the north boundary or the south boundary with -- that lot is so
narrow, that's really all he's left with, isn't it?
Stiles: And then the lots are only 45 feet deep with the setbacks. It couldn't be a typical
residential subdivision. They would have to try to do some planned development with --
I don't know. Some -- I don't know what they would do with it.
Corrie: Mr. Bird, did you get all of your questions?
Bird: Yes, I did. Thank you.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
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February 5, 2002
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Nary: I just had a couple of questions. And I think you're going to probably have to
come up here again, Mr. Shipley. Where is your house in comparison to these --
Shipley: It's right up there in front.
Nary: So it's on the front end of the lot?
Shipley: I have a driveway that is on the -- right next -- pretty close to the south border
in there, so these other streets here are coming out of the Salmon Rapids and
Sherbrooke Hollow are pretty darn close to my driveway, you know. The setback is
legal, but it's right at the -- they had to move the canal in order to get it back far enough
to do that at a cost of about 280,000 dollars to move the bridge out there the taxpayers
had to pay for, because the subdivider, he only paid the impact fees, you know, but --
Nary: Thank you. And I didn't know about where the streets lined up that way and I
didn't know the reason they did.
Shipley: Well, they lined those streets up so that they could get adequate use of the
land and now I'm left sitting there because they won't give me enough to replace it and
they are cheap and they are going to ruin the value of my land even more, because we
don't want to put things in an appropriate --
Nary: So this is your house right there, sir? And this is all of your property here? This is
yours as well?
Shipley: No, it's --
Nary: Just this straight back here –
Shipley; Just straight back there in the thing. That picture was taken many, many years
ago.
Nary: So this is the piece we are talking about right now, right there; correct?
Shipley: That's the one you're talking about -- right there and mine is on the south side
of that property, so that's my house and my --
Nary: And the stub street in --
Shipley: There is 130 year old trees out in front and a few things like that. So that -- you
know, it's not wide enough to do anything with, really.
Nary: Well -- and it doesn't do a whole lot different than what the other stub street that
come up here, Mr. Shipley, up here instead of down. The same -- the one you're talking
about is this is parcel right there, because that other stub street comes right here.
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February 5, 2002
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Shipley: Well, they got like two or three acres there, you know, and --
Nary: Well, it looks like there is already houses on it, so there is already something
there.
Shipley: There is houses on there and --
Nary: There is not a whole lot else they can do with that --
Shipley: I think that's the three acre one on the right side and a two acre one on the
other side and --
Nary: Thank you, Mr. Shipley.
Shipley: Effectively, what's happened is I lived in the country and now I have been
moved to the city.
Nary: I understand.
Shipley: And we have got -- I'm still in the county, so I have city people making
decisions for me who lives in the county on county property and I got to come down
here and try to -- I want you guys to get the best manage out of that land as you can,
because that's what it's supposed to be.
Nary: I totally understand what you're saying, Mr. Shipley. I think what Mr. Nichols had
raised was the concern that even if the stub the street here, so that you can connect
between this parcel, your parcel, and this stub street down here --
Shipley: Well, there is sewer and stuff in this –
Nary: Having this would really end up dividing your property even more so that you
couldn't do a whole lot either way.
Shipley: No. And there is sewer and stuff in the stub out to the front that they took the
sewer -- had to go 22 feet deep to get the sewer out there, because it's just -- you
know, that's a lot of extra digging.
Nary: I had one other question for Chief Bowers. My only concern, Chief, is on the one
Ms. Rudel brought up, Number 25. I mean I think it makes -- I mean I think her point
was pretty clear, there isn't any way to make another entrance into this property, but is
that provision from Deputy Chief Silva -- is that a Uniform Fire Code provision that we
would be granting some sort of waiver? Do we have a liability concern by doing that or
-- I mean I think we have had this come up, but we have some subdivisions that were
small enough that one entrance is all that really can work, but --
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February 5, 2002
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Bowers: Councilman Nary, City Council Members, Mayor Corrie, we have had this --
excuse me. We have had this come up North Locust Grove also and Fairview that we
could only get one way in and out. Yes. On this piece of property there is no other way
of putting one into it until there is either development right -- north or south.
Nary: Thank you.
Corrie: I'll allow one more from the developer to answer any questions.
Ford-Rudel: Thank you. I just want to address a couple of things Mr. Shipley said.
Regarding the drain field located on the property, we will be happy to -- Providence
does want to be a good neighbor and we will see what we can do. Regarding the
developability of his property, you know, we are required to provide accessibility via
stub streets as part of the Comprehensive Plan for the zoning ordinance, not
developability. These are two different things. And we are doing the best that we can
to provide him a means to develop his land. We have been, since preliminary layout,
trying to figure out how he could develop it. The only -- the most reasonable way to
development is to provide a cul-de-sac coming out from Sherbrooke Hollow and
providing lots that way and then a cul-de-sac coming from our development and the
cul-de-sacs do not have any connection. That is the most economical way to develop
his property. With the 30 foot right of way and trying to front 80 foot lots fronting on a
50 foot right of way, trying to get setbacks, et cetera, there is just no way, unless you go
through a PUD and have some sort of housing product that could fit there and there is
very few housing products that could fit on that sort of lot. So I would be happy to
stand for any further questions if you have any.
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Thank you very much.
Ford-Rudel: Thank you.
Corrie: Council, have you --
Bird: Shari.
Corrie: I'm sorry. Shari. Yes.
Shari: I just want to clarify one thing. Mr. Shipley's property is 195 feet wide, so that
would allow, with the 50 foot right of way, he would have 72 and a half foot lots on
either side if it were a road that came in the middle.
Corrie: Okay. Thank you. Any other questions Council has?
De Weerd: I have none.
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February 5, 2002
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Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Okay. Hearing none, I will entertain a motion to close the Public Hearing for
Items 13 and 14.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that we close the Public Hearing for AZ 01-023, annexation and zoning on
5.97 acres from RUT to R-4 zones for proposed Inglenook Subdivision by Providence
Development Group and also to close the Public Hearing on PP 01-023, request for
Preliminary Plat approval of 20 building lots and 24 other lots in a proposed R-4 for
proposed Inglenook Subdivision by Providence Development Group, LLC.
McCandless: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded to close the Public Hearing on the
request for annexation and zoning on the Inglenook Subdivision. Any further
discussion? All those in favor of the motion say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: Council, further discussion?
Nary: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: In looking at this application I think the developer here is being as reasonable as
they can be in this regard. I certainly agree that relocating Mr. Shipley's drain field is a
significant assistance to him, because that can be a significant expense for him to have
to do that and I do think -- you know, it's not his fault it's on someone else's property, but
it is on someone's else property, so somebody is going to have to pay to move it. So
they will have to do that. Also put non-combustible fencing along his property also is a
fair consideration. I do like that the open space that they do have now is a green space
and that's more usable than a pathway that doesn't go anywhere, a path against a
canal that you can't use, and on the access issue on I guess Number 25, I would agree
there is no way to do that. There is no possible way for them to be able to do that.
Based on this I know we have other subdivisions that are similar to this that don't have
a requirement that there be two access point. I would at least make note for the school
district, this letter I think is before they changed their response letters and they did
indicate that Mary McPherson Elementary School is over capacity, but I would note at
least that what their anticipated use from this subdivision is fairly small, although at least
I know we at least should look at that and that -- in this consideration, at least the
amount that we are looking at from this particular subdivision is a fairly small amount in
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February 5, 2002
Page 71 of 88
relation to the school's capacity in this particular area. Other than that, I can't see any
other particular reason. I mean I feel for Mr. Shipley, he is in kind of a tight pickle where
he's at and it's not really his making, but it ended up that way and it sounds like he
should look at something different and maybe those opportunities will be there. I think at
least what the developer is trying to do I think is trying to develop right. It isn't their
responsibility to try make sure he can develop his land, it's their responsibility to be
good neighbors and is trying to provide a good use for the property that they own, so I
don't see any other reason that we would wanted to deny this request.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I agree with Councilman Nary. I think that these developers have went back and
did exactly like we had asked them to do from the original denial. I do feel for Mr.
Shipley. When I moved here in '65 I used to go take my dogs out and go across the
street and pheasant hunt all the way out to where the high school is now, so I can't do it
anymore, but I guess that's progress.
Shipley: There is no compensation for us old guys.
Corrie: Okay. Any other comments? Okay. I'll entertain a motion first on the request for
annexation and zoning, Request 01-023.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I would move approval of AZ 01-023, request for annexation and zoning of 5.97
acres from RUT to R-4 zone for the proposed Inglenook Subdivision by Providence
Development Group, LLC, at 2720 South Locust Grove, for our attorney to prepare
Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law and Order based upon the staff comments, as
included -- well, as the comments made tonight. I don't recall if there was any changes
to the staff report or the recommendation that needed to be corrected separately.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion has been made by Mr. Nary and seconded by Mr. Bird to approve the
annexation and zoning request for Inglenook Subdivision and for the attorney to draw
up Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and the staff comments and comments
made tonight.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
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February 5, 2002
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De Weerd: I guess there was a notation on number 14, on page four, on correcting the
lot and block or -- I'm not sure -- you talked much faster than I was writing, so --
Nary: You're right. On Number 14 of the annexation report it should reflect Lot 1, Block
2, and Lot 8, block 1.
De Weerd: There you go.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Yes, Mr. Bird.
Bird: This also would include the drain field agreement within the annexation and
zoning?
Nary: Yes. Yes. That would -- I guess that would be an additional condition that they
would also relocate the drain field from Mr. Shipley's property -- or from their property --
Bird: If they find it --
Nary: All right. Thank you.
Corrie: Anything further discussion? Hearing none, roll call vote, Mr. Berg.
Role Call: Bird, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Nary, aye.
Corrie: All ayes. Motion is carried for annexation.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: Now the request for Preliminary Plat.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Since Mrs. de Weerd has a sore throat, I will move for approval of PP 01-023,
request for Preliminary Plat approval of 20 building lots and 24 other lots in a proposed
R-4 zone for the proposed Inglenook Subdivision by Providence Development Group,
LLC, at 2720 South Locust Grove and for our counsel to prepare Findings of Fact and
Conclusions of Law pursuant to the staff reports and recommendations from the
Planning and Zoning Commission, to include the following -- to include in that also that
in recommendation number two, the non-combustible fencing will also be placed upon
the south boundary perimeter of the property that -- I guess three would be amended to
recommend the open space as proposed on the site plan and that number 25 be --
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February 5, 2002
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regarding two means of access would be deleted and that the number 30 would reflect
the proper lot numbers, Lot 1, Block 2, and Lot 8, Block 1.
De Weerd: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made by Mr. Nary and seconded by Mrs. de Weerd to
approve the request for Preliminary Plat, the motion has stated. Any further discussion?
Hearing none, Mr. Berg, roll call vote, please.
Role Call: Bird, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Nary, aye.
Corrie: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 15: Public Hearing: AZ 01-020 Request for annexation and zoning of 3.58
acres from R-1 to R-8 zones for proposed Silhouette Subdivision by
Tyler Torkelson - east of North Meridian Road and south of East Ustick
Road:
Item 16: Public Hearing: PP 01-021 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 19
building lots and 3 other lots on 3.00 acres in a proposed R-8 zone for
proposed Silhouette Subdivision by Tyler Torkelson - east of North
Meridian Road and south of East Ustick Road:
Item 17: Public Hearing: CUP 01-039 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a
Planned Development in a proposed R-8 zone for proposed Silhouette
Subdivision by Tyler Torkelson - east of North Meridian Road and south
of East Ustick Road:
Corrie: Item No 15 is a Public Hearing, request for annexation and zoning of 3.58 acres
from R-1 to R-8 zone for proposed Satellite Subdivision by Tyler Torkelson --
De Weerd: Silhouette.
Corrie: Silhouette. What did I say?
De Weerd: Satellite.
Corrie: Okay. It's getting late. East of Meridian Road and south of Ustick Road. At this
time I will open the Public Hearing on that annexation and zoning and also on the Public
Hearing on the Preliminary Plat as well. Staff comments on No. 15 and 16 -- oh, we've
got a CUP. I'm sorry. The CUP. Yes. Right. Okay. So 15, 16 and 17 open the Public
HearingStaff comments first.
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February 5, 2002
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Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, this is for property on Meridian Road. Nearby
subdivisions would be Bedford Place Subdivision, R-8 subdivision. The applicant is
requesting R-8 zoning with a Planned Development in order to have zero lot line
development. There are two existing homes on the property. Initially they had come in
and requested annexation and excluded those two existing homes from the plat, but
they have now indicated they are including those as lots within their plat. So they would
actually have 21 buildable lots as part of this development. This is looking at the land
as it appears now. You have the Onweiller Lateral. This Onweiller Lateral also goes
through Finch Creek Subdivision, I believe, and has been piped throughout that
subdivision. This is not the latest version of their plat. They have submitted another
landscape plan that shows a pathway all along the Onweiller Lateral and then it
continues behind the bermed area adjacent to the landscape setback along Meridian
Road. They are proposing duplex units and some -- duplex units and single family
attached housing and some single-family housing detached. These are the elevations
they have submitted as part of their plan. There was -- we had some concern about the
open space that they have proposed. They do propose a pathway along this area here.
I'm not sure how far it could go before it would disappear. They are also showing on
their most recent submittal that the turnaround for the emergency vehicles would be
approximately here. They would have a paved area and they are showing that this
would be included as one of the required amenities for a Planned Development. They
would put a basketball hoop at the end of this asphalt turnaround to be used for an
amenity within the subdivision. With that I'll let the applicant -- I guess the applicant can
testify. We would recommend approval of this, provided you believe this configuration
of open space is usable and appropriate for this development and ask that you approve
it with all staff and agency conditions.
Corrie: Council have questions of staff at this point? Okay. Would the representative
like to testify at this time? Is the testimony you're about to give tonight the truth, the
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Pavelek: I do. My name is Richard Pavelek, I'm with Tealey's Land Surveying. We have
offices at 2501 Bogus Basin Road in Boise. I'm afraid I was a little bit sharper earlier in
the evening, so I will do my best to remember all of the issues here. I think in the
discussions that we had with Planning and Zoning, the annexation I think was well
discussed in terms of it being contiguous to the city limits and that was supported. The
notion of having a townhouse Planned Development in this location, I think in view of
that it is in-fill type of a property was appropriate, also the traffic on Meridian Road, were
all good reasons for looking at this type of development at this location. We had specific
discussion on the layout in -- I believe one of the neighbors is present this evening. I
anticipate there will be discussion as far as where we are providing the stub street to
the adjoining parcel. This was basically the choice that was given to us by the Highway
District. We came to them with a couple of preliminary -- as far as how might develop
this and this was basically the location that they felt was desirable. Interestingly enough,
the name Richter is the name of the street that actually is to the south approximately an
eighth of a mile or so from the stub street and I assume that they do anticipate that one
way or the other this is what they would like to see a continuation of. Our other street
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February 5, 2002
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coming in, it's a given as far as that location, because of the existing street directly
across from this parcel. In discussions with staff it was felt that the two existing
buildings there is -- or residences, one is a duplex, one is a single family home, should
be on their own lots and should not be treated as an out parcel, so we have revised the
plat and that's why staff noted that there are two additional lots, buildable lots, that
would, in fact, be there for the benefit of the existing homes that are on the property.
Right there are the two homes. There is a couple of outbuildings. Those will -- the
larger one in the back will be removed. That is right in the center of our north-south leg
of our street, so it would extend down from that point. In terms of the open space, there
was a considerable amount of discussion about the open space. We are going through
the expense of piping the Onweiller Lateral and we will provide significant pedestrian
connection to the future undeveloped lands that are to our east. This property. And so,
therefore, that was viewed as a desirable amenity. We do have a small space within the
development that can accommodate a limited amount of play at the center of the
development. We have revised the landscape plan to also provide a full landscaping on
the Onweiller Lateral easement and then a clarification of how that, in fact, would be
accessed in terms of the sidewalk connection. I believe those are the primary issues
that were discussed. Oh, there was two other things that were requested of us. One as
the landscape plan, which had been submitted. The other was a letter from the fire
department reviewing the temporary turnaround configuration we have and that has
been submitted, indicating that that is an acceptable turnaround. So I think we have met
all of the requirements that were asked of us for your consideration. We'd ask for your
support in the approval of all three applications as presented or amended with the
information that was now on file. So if there is any questions I would be happy to
address them.
Corrie: Questions? Okay. Mr. Moyle. Is the testimony you're about to give the truth, the
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Moyle: Yes, sir.
Corrie: Give your name and address, please.
Moyle: My name is Joseph Moyle. I live at 280 North Plummer Road in Star. I am
representing Mary Moyle who owns the land on both the east and south of the
proposed subdivision and we have not a great deal of problems with the subdivision,
except I think it's pretty tight packed. It's a lot tighter than anything really close around it,
you're going to have to a quarter or a half a mile away down towards Meridian, and they
do have a lot of open space where they have gone that tight and there is no open space
in this division -- this proposed subdivision. But that's irrelevant. Our problem is that
they went to the County Highway District and proposed to stub roads into our property
without our input and we would like the stub road to go to the east to line up with the
road on the east part of our property, which is -- if you will follow the subdivision up
here, the road stubs in up here and would come down and eventually tie into that road.
That's what we would like to see and we would request that you table this motion and
return it to Ada County Highway District that we might have a proper hearing on where
Meridian City Council Meeting
February 5, 2002
Page 76 of 88
that stub road goes in. I realize it needs to be done expediently, because winter is going
to be gone quick and they are going to want to develop the land, but we feel that the
stub road that they put into our property somewhat limits what we are able to do with it.
If you will -- there was another picture we had here of just the site and I'll show you just
what our property is. No, that's not the one. The one that shows the surrounding area.
That pretty well -- this is our property in here and we have a stub road right here that
they could stub into this property very easily. If they want to put a stub road in here,
which causes us difficulty with developing this property down the road. So we are just
saying, hey, guys, we should have had some input. We didn't get any input. We were
not -- there was no hearing that we were ever notified of or anything else and we'd like
to see it returned to Ada County Highway District for reconsideration. Thank you for
your time.
Corrie: Thank you.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Mr. Moyle, before you sit down, have you -- shockingly, I remember this hearing at
the Planning and Zoning Commission, but -- and I know we had a lot of discussion on
this road and the house -- where the house is and all that.
Moyle: Yes.
Nary: But have you requested a rehearing from -- they don't tell us where to put the
houses and we don't tell them where to put the roads.
Moyle: Well, we went -- we were told this was the next hearing that they would have
and this is the one we were notified to come to. We had not been able to talk to them.
When we'd call and try to make an appointment they are busy, you can't find the right
person, or -- you know how it goes.
Nary: Well, I don't know if you're -- I mean I guess what I'm concerned about, Mr. Moyle,
is if we delay this I don't know that you are going to get another hearing in front of the
Highway District.
Moyle: Well, I would like to see us try. I'd like to see us try.
Nary: What have you done since December?
Moyle: What have I done since December?
Nary: Yes.
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February 5, 2002
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Moyle: We have contacted the Highway District, but with very little success. We have
been to Mexico twice. We have been to California three times on businesses. We
have been to Seattle five times on business. I have been to Utah twice on business.
There hasn't been much time to do these things, because this is kind of a -- hey, we are
not asking you to do anything other than be left alone a little bit and we told them of our
problem. We think it's time if there is a problem, hey, let us talk to them, let's have a
hearing -- let's have the hearing that should have been held before, which was --
apparently wasn't held. That's what we are asking for.
Nary: My recollection of the earlier discussion, Mr. Moyle, was that the -- that the stub
streets where it's currently located may or may not impact the use of your property. If
nothing ever happens, you're still --
Moyle: Well, eventually, I hope in the next couple of years we will be before this board
again asking that this property be annexed and that we develop it. Our anticipation of
developing it has been to have a gated senior community, because of the access to the
South Slew and the Onweiller ditch will probably have to be -- will have to be paved and
there is a chance that the neighbors on the north would like to run that road that I
pointed out right down the top of the irrigation ditch, use that right of way, and access it
from both sides. We discussed a little bit of that. The other thing is the access where it
is makes it difficult -- if you go to the view of mother's house -- she has another view
that shows the relationship to --
Nary: How big is your big property?
Moyle: 17 acres.
Nary: 17?
Moyle: Yes. 17. -- I think it's 17.8 or something. But around 17 or 18 acres. I don't
know whether I can get her to switch over to that other view or not.
Stiles: You want the aerial?
Moyle: Yes. The aerial. The next one -- we want to show the houses. Okay. That pretty
well shows it. That's my mother's house that's being pointed there and the road that
they are going to bring in is about right there. I think somewhere right there. Is that --
Nary: Mr. Moyle, that ends approximately right --
Moyle: That's our property line. Yes. If you will notice just east of your pointer is a tree.
That's the corner of his property right there and that goes north to the ditch right there.
And, actually, the property lines there, that ditch has been cleaned from the north side
for the last 30 years and the property line is actually over in that road someplace. At
least they kind of move and grown and gone around it, because it was cleaned from the
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February 5, 2002
Page 78 of 88
ditches. But that's my problem, my concern. I'd like to see it returned to Ada County
Highway District for reconsideration. Is there any other questions? Thank you.
Corrie: Any other testimony tonight? Okay.
Pavelek: Mayor and Council, very briefly. Mr. Torkelson here is present this evening. He
did go around and see his neighbors and did talk about where he was going to put the
stub street, so I think the discussion has been going on as far as what the Highway
District's desire was long before we actually submitted a formal application here and I
can appreciate the notion that 17 acres would be a nice gated community, but I think it
probably won't happen in terms of the requests that are going to be made by the
Highway District as far as the development goes. There are already stub streets there
and for them to remain as that, rather than to go across the property probably is not
going to happen. Maybe one time in history you could do those sorts of developments
without having streets through your properties, but I have found a great deal of
reluctance on the Highway Department desire or ability to basically close off those
connections. So I think that's basically the crux of the issue is being asked by agency to
put in the streets and provide a location for the stub street in a location. We have done
that and we have made a development proposal and based on that configuration. If
there is any other questions I'll address them. That's all I have to say.
Corrie: Any other questions, Council?. Okay. Thank you, Richard.
Moyle: One more comment?
Corrie: Okay.
Moyle: My last comment is that we have wanted this to go to the east, because that way
they can take care of the stub streets that already exist without causing difficulty with
what our plans were in the future and to the south makes it very, very difficult. That's
what I was -- thank you, sir.
Corrie: Council, have any other questions as part of the Public Hearing? Okay. I'll
entertain a motion to close the Public Hearing for Items 15, 16, and 17.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I'd move that we close the Public Hearing for AZ 01-020, request for annexation
and zoning of 3.58 acres from R-1 to R-8 zone for proposed Silhouette Subdivision by
Tyler Torkelson, east of North Meridian Road and south of East Ustick Road and also
the Public Hearing for PP 01-021, request for Preliminary Plat approval of 19 building
lots and 3 other lots on 3.00 acres in a proposed R-8 zone for proposed Silhouette
Subdivision by Tyler Torkelson, north of -- East of North Meridian Road and south of
East Ustick Road, and also the Public Hearing for CUP 01-039, request for Conditional
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February 5, 2002
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Use Permit for a Planned Development in a proposed R-8 zone for the proposed
Silhouette Subdivision by Tyler Torkelson, east of North Meridian Road and south of
East Ustick Road.
Corrie: Okay. Do I hear a second?
Nary: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made by Mr. Bird, seconded by Mr. Nary, to close the
Public Hearing on the request for annexation and zoning, Preliminary Plat, and request
for Conditional Use Permit on proposed Silhouette Subdivision on Items 15, 16, and 17.
Any further comments? All those in favor of the motion say aye. All ayes. Motion
carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: Discussion on 15, 16, or 17, Council?.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I guess the only discussion I would have is to simply make note of a couple of
things. On the Highway District issue, I think the report that we have in this packet
shows a date of November 29th
. I don't know whether or not they will entertain any
degree of discussion of this proposal. I really don't know. But I don't know that it would
be reasonable to the developer that's requested this to simply delay it on the hope -- or
that Mr. Moyle might get a hearing. I don't know that he will. And it's not really -- the
developer has done what they have been asked to do and the Highway District has told
them where the roads are supposed to go. That's what they are supposed to do and I
think the property is large enough and that even having a stub street there, it certainly is
going to impact it, but it's going to -- this property is big enough that there is certainly a
lot of room to do a variety different things even with the stub street there. I did note the
school district's letter of November 16th
, indicated that five senior high students is what
their anticipated amount of students would be from this subdivision and that Eagle High
School is what the appropriate high school is and it's already over capacity, but with the
new high school it may not be affected that severely. So at least the school district at
least with this one doesn't appear to have a detriment to what's already there. Other
than that I don't -- I guess I don't see anything else about this. I understand where Mr.
Moyle is coming from, but he's going to have to take it up with the Highway District and I
don't know that we need to delay this just for that possibility.
Corrie: Okay. Any other comments, discussion?
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
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February 5, 2002
Page 80 of 88
Corrie: Hearing none, then I will entertain a motion first for the annexation and zoning,
AZ 01-020, of the Silhouette Subdivision, 3.58 acres from an R-1 to an R-8 zone.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would move that we approve AZ 01-020, the request for annexation and zoning
of 3.58 acres from R-1 to R-8 zones for the proposed Silhouette Subdivision by Tyler
Torkelson, east of North Meridian Road and south of East Ustick Road and for the
attorney to draw up the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision of
Order and include staff comments and also public testimony.
Nary: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made by Mr. Bird and seconded by Mr. Nary to approve
the annexation and zoning of the Silhouette Subdivision and for the attorney to draw up
the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and the comments of the staff, as well as
the public hearing testimony. Any further discussion? Mr. Clerk, give us a roll call vote,
please.
Role Call: Bird, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Nary, aye.
Corrie: All ayes. Motion on the annexation and zoning is approved.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: Now the request for Preliminary Plat, 01-021.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would move that we approve the request for Preliminary Plat approval of 19
building lots and 3 other lots on 3.00 acres in a proposed R-8 zone for the proposed
Silhouette Subdivision by Tyler Torkelson, east of North Meridian Road and south of
East Ustick Road, No. PP 01-021, and for the attorney to draw up the Findings of Facts
and Conclusions of Law and Decision of Order and to include all staff comments and
public testimony.
Nary: Second. Mr. Bird, isn't it now 21 building lots?
Stiles: Yes.
Nary: I think it's 21 --
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February 5, 2002
Page 81 of 88
Bird: Yes. That's 21. I'm sorry.
Nary: They added to it after that.
Bird: Yes. You're right. I'm sorry.
Nary: But I would second it.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made by Mr. Bird, seconded by Mr. Nary, to approve the
Preliminary Plat approval of 21 building lots and for the attorney to draw up the Findings
of Fact and Conclusions of Law and Decision of Order, with comments and public
testimony. Any further discussion? Roll call vote, please.
Role Call: Bird, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Nary, aye.
Corrie: All ayes. Motion is carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: Item No. 17 is a request for a Conditional Use Permit, 01-039, for a proposed R-
8 zone for Silhouette Subdivision for a Planned Unit Development. I'll entertain a motion
on the request for a Conditional Use Permit for a Planned Development.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that we would approve the Conditional Use Permit for a Planned
Development in a proposed R-8 zone for the proposed Silhouette Subdivision by Tyler
Torkelson, east of North Meridian Road and south of East Ustick Road, No. CUP 01-
039, with staff comments and public testimony and the attorney to draw up the proper
papers.
Nary: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made by Mr. Bird, seconded by Mr. Nary, to approve the
request for a Conditional Use Permit for a Planned Development in proposed Silhouette
Subdivision. Any further discussion? Roll call vote, Mr. Clerk.
Role Call: Bird, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Nary, aye.
Corrie: All ayes. Motion for the Conditional Use Permit is approved.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Meridian City Council Meeting
February 5, 2002
Page 82 of 88
Item 18: PFP 01-007 Request for Preliminary/Final Plat approval of 2 building lots
on 1.46 acres in a C-G zone for Wenco Subdivision by Wenco –
Northwest corner of East Corporate Drive and East First Street:
Corrie: Item No. 18 is a request for a Preliminary/Final Plat approval of 2 building lots on
1.46 acres in a C-G zone for Wenco Subdivision, by Wenco, northwest corner of East
Corporate Drive and East First Street. Staff comments.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, this is the property between East First Street and
Meridian Road that the Wendy's Drive-Thru Restaurant is going to be constructed on.
Tammy was discussing this earlier. This particular project, was it --
De Weerd: Oh, yes. It's the one I pulled off.
Nary: No. That -- Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I think -- Shari, I think I read this in here, too, but isn't my recollection -- wasn't it
somehow not divided properly and this is just clearing up the platting? I mean we have
already approved the CUP, but isn't this just clearing up the platting? There was
something that it wasn't divided properly or something like that. I don't remember the
exact -- but I think that's all it is, isn't it?
Stiles: Yes, it is.
Nary: Kind of a clean-up thing.
Stiles: I wondered if Ada County Highway District had any different recommendation on
this as far as the right in, right out. Is someone here representing – oh? The applicant's
representative is here and indicates he has read the findings. I guess I have no issues if
that's incorporated correct, the ACHD recommendations. The applicant indicated he
believes they are correct, so I would recommend they be approved with staff and
agency conditions.
Corrie: Okay. Any questions?
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Applicant, no questions? Okay. I'll entertain a motion, then, for the Preliminary
Plat and Final approval for Wenco Subdivision.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Meridian City Council Meeting
February 5, 2002
Page 83 of 88
Nary: I would recommend approval of PFP 01-007, request for Preliminary and Final
Plat approval of 2 building lots on 1.46 acres in a C-G zone for Wenco Subdivision by
Wenco at the northwest corner of East Corporate Drive and East First Street, to
incorporate all staff comments and for our attorney to prepare Findings of Fact and
Conclusions of Law as necessary. I think that's it.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion made and seconded to approve the Wenco Subdivision for Preliminary
and Final Plat and staff comments and attorney to draw up the Findings of Facts and
Conclusions of Law. Any further discussion? Hearing none, Mr. Clerk.
Role Call: Bird, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Nary, aye.
Corrie: All ayes. Motion approved.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 19: PFP 01-008 Request for Preliminary/Final Plat approval of 4 building lots
on 1.57 acres in an R-8 zone for Kearney Place No. 4 by Margaret Wood
- south of East Chateau Drive and east of North Laughbridge Avenue
Corrie: Item No. 19 is a request for Preliminary/Final Plat approval of 4 building lots on
1.57 acres in an R-8 zone for Kearney Place No. 4 by Margaret Wood, south of East
Chateau Drive and east of North Laughbridge Avenue. Staff comments.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, it appears that Mr. Wood has drawn the short straw again
and is at the end of the agenda. He seems to always end up there. But this is for an in-
fill parcel. The property currently is the house where Mr. Wood's mother resides and it is
a development to go along with the existing development that surrounds it. They are
proposing to have a shared driveway on the south side of Chateau Drive and the
Planning and Zoning Commission recommended that a cross-access easement be
recorded for those lots to make sure that they maintain that shared driveway and didn't
try to access directly onto Chateau. We would recommend approval of this
Preliminary/Final Plat with all staff and agency conditions.
Corrie: Okay. Thank you. Thank you for staying late. Do you have any comments that --
everything is fine? Let the record show that applicant's representative is fine. Council,
your desire on the request for Preliminary/Final Plat?
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Mr. Mayor, I move that we approve the request for Preliminary and Final Plat
approval of 4 building lots on 1.57 acres in an R-8 zone for Kearney Place No. 4 by
Meridian City Council Meeting
February 5, 2002
Page 84 of 88
Margaret Wood, south of east Chateau Drive and east of North Laughbridge Avenue,
No. PFP 01-008, and to include the staff comments and for the attorney to draw up the
Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law.
McCandless: Second.
Corrie: Motion made and seconded to approve the request for Preliminary and Final
Plat for Kearney Place No. 4. Any further discussion? Hearing none, roll call vote,
please.
Role Call: Bird, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Nary, aye.
Corrie: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 20: Tabled from January 22, 2002 meeting: Discussion of City Seal /
Logo:
Corrie: I have one other on the logo and then I have a request that we go into executive
session for about five minutes. We've got just a housekeeping thing we need to make
sure that Council is aware of and then we can go from there. The last item on the
agenda is the discussion of the City Seal/Logo.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: We did discuss this at the meeting that you were out of town during and the
only change -- although the lettering since 1903 is larger than the one we had kind of
looked at, so this needs to be changed, but they did change to 1903 and so all the
changes that have been asked for are listed.
Bird: Which one, Mayor? We are waiting for you to make your pick.
Corrie: I don't know that it's different from your --
Bird: What was the other --
Corrie: That's fine. This is the one you're looking at then?
De Weerd: Yes. The two of these. The detailed one for the official type of material or
letterhead and those kind of things and the line art for your shirts, business cards, or I
think the line -- or the fine one can do business cards, but this would be for vehicles and
the lapel pins, that kind of stuff. Did you want to see those? Yes. We kind of -- see, she-
- there was different sizes of print on the fine -- the detailed one versus the line art and I
Meridian City Council Meeting
February 5, 2002
Page 85 of 88
told her to use the smaller lettering, but she used the larger lettering, so -- and,
unfortunately I just got it today, so --
Corrie: Does everybody like the larger or the smaller 1903?
Nary: I actually like the larger one.
De Weerd: Do you?
Nary: I do. Mr. Mayor, I know this has been a laborious process for Council to get to
this, but I did make a comment earlier and I guess I just want to repeat it, I really -- I
guess to me one logo seems like money. I like the detailed one, I recognize that's
probably not transferable to a lot of things, and I just think having two will just be
confusing. I like the line art type. I don't think there is a problem to put it on business
cards and letterhead or anything else, but I do like the detailed, but I just -- I think if we
are going to go through this -- unless we want to go through it again, that we just pick
one and that there just be one logo, one city, we buy all of this stuff, everybody can see
it, and we don't have two, so we don't have many more excuses, but I'm certainly not
going to vote against it if you want two. I just think having one seems like -- it should
just be one.
Bird: Tell us the one you want.
Nary: I think the line art one is fine. I think --
Bird: This one right here?
Nary: Right. No. The bottom one. Because it's more transferable to vehicles or buttons
or pins or whatever. I mean it's an easier transferable thing to use the lower one that
has the line art. If you're going put it on shirts and letterhead and everything else --
again, I don't mind the detail of the top one, but it just seems like, you know, if we have
two and it would just seem more confusing to people.
Bird: I agree, Bill. Just go to the one and let's -- and I think this probably is easier to
transfer to everything and just have one and Tammy did exactly what we had asked, we
asked her to get the water tower back in it. She did everything else, so -- I don't see
anything wrong with it.
Corrie: Do you like the time on the clock at a quarter until 8:00 or would you like to have
it at 11:00?
Bird: I'd like to have it at --
Nary: 10:54.
Corrie: Okay. So this is the one right here; right?
Meridian City Council Meeting
February 5, 2002
Page 86 of 88
De Weerd: Yes.
Corrie: Only it will say 1903, rather than --
De Weerd: Correct.
Corrie: Like this. Okay.
Bird: That's agreeable then?
Nary: Well, we had also discussed previously, Mayor, when you were gone that there
was some space available in that logo that if a department wanted to put something on
the department itself and I don't know what that would be, but some park trees or
something like that. I don't know if it would end up being busier than it is, but --
De Weerd: Well, do you want to move -- we can put the Idaho right next to the N and
that way it has free reign for each department to put the --
Nary: Or all the way to the left under the E and that would still give you more space.
De Weerd: Oh, yuck.
Corrie: Down here Idaho and then down here you can put City fire Department, City
Council, whatever the case may be.
Nary: That would be fine.
Corrie: Okay. All right. Want to vote?
Nary: Mr. Nichols I think wanted to comment.
Nichols: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, as long as this has been around I think just
pick the logo and then you can work on the department stuff afterwards.
Bird: Very wise decision.
Corrie: Okay.
De Weerd: That’s why he gets paid the big bucks.
Corrie: So the one at the bottom here is the one you want to use and we will work out
the details of that with the department heads and that?
Bird: So moved, Mr. Mayor.
Meridian City Council Meeting
February 5, 2002
Page 87 of 88
McCandless: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion made and seconded to -- any other discussion? Roll call vote, Mr.
Berg.
Role Call: Bird, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Nary, aye.
Corrie: All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Yes.
De Weerd: I could have the finished copy and present it at our workshop next week.
Corrie: All right. That sounds good.
De Weerd: It was suggested that maybe at one of our meetings we can display --
present it to the public and ask the artist to be here to acknowledge all their hard work
and our going back and forth and back and forth on this thing, so would we like to do
that?
Corrie: Certainly. Bring them in.
De Weerd: We want to try it at a workshop or maybe the meeting after that on the
19th
?
Bird: We don't care.
Corrie: Your choice.
De Weerd: Okay. With that --
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would move that we go into executive session as per Idaho State Code 67-
2345(f) to consider and advise its legal representative of pending litigation or where
there is a general public awareness of probable litigation.
Corrie: Do I hear a second.
Nary: Second.
Meridian City Council Meeting
February 5, 2002
Page 88 of 88
Corrie: Okay. Roll call vote, please.
Role Call: Bird, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Nary, aye.
EXECUTIVE SESSION:
RECONVENED AT 11:14 P.M.
Corrie: Okay. I will entertain a motion.
Bird: Mr. Mayor, I move that we come out of Executive Session.
McCandless: Second.
Corrie: Motion made and seconded to come out of Executive Session. All those in favor
say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: Okay. I'll entertain a motion to close the City Council meeting at 11:15.
Bird: I move. So moved.
Corrie: All in favor say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 11:15 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
APPROVED
___________________________ _____|_____|_____
ROBERT CORRIE, MAYOR DATE APPROVED
_______________________________
WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., CITY CLERK