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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2002 01-15Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 The regularly scheduled meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:30 P.M., Tuesday, January 15, 2002, by Mayor Robert D. Corrie. Members Present: Mayor Robert Corrie, Tammy de Weerd, Keith Bird, Cherie McCandless and Bill Nary. Others Present: Bill Nichols, Mike Worley, Gary Smith, Shari Stiles, Brad Watson, Will Berg, Ken Bowers and Dean Willis. Corrie: All right. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm going to open the City Council meeting -- regular meeting for Tuesday, January the 15th, at 6:30 P.M., here in the Council Chambers. I imagine a lot of you are here for Item No. 10 that's coming up. That's the Public Hearing for the request for text change amendments to the 1993 Comprehensive Plan by Falcon Creek, LLC. That has been requested to be tabled until February the 19th at a Public Hearing continuance at that point. So if you're here just for that, I hate to have you just waiting to do testimony on that, because it will be done on the 19th of February. It's been tabled -- not tabled, but the Public Hearing is continued to that time. So does anybody have any questions before we get started on that? Yes, sir. Unidentified Speaker: Is it possible to take some of the testimony on that item tonight and -- ? Corrie: No. No. Unidentified: They might not be able to be here on the 19th . Corrie: Well, then send us a letter, because the applicant is not here to answer any of the questions that's brought up tonight if we do that. So if you want to send a letter it will issued as testimony, it will be read that night, the same thing. But at the advice of the attorney we will make this a continuance to February the 19th and we will take testimony at the time, not tonight, because it's not fair to you, it is not fair to the applicant, and really not fair to the Council, because we are hearing one side and only one testimony at that point. So if you can't be here, then give us a letter with your testimony of what you want to say and we will read it into the record so that you will have that testimony on the record. (Inaudible discussion from audience.) Corrie: One at a time. Right here with the tie. (Inaudible discussion from audience.) Corrie: Right. We got a letter that there is a medical problem with the planner that's part of that program and he couldn't make it tonight, so he asked if we would table it until the 19th , which is a Public Hearing on land use and Council will probably, the last I heard, they are going to do that, so we won't be taking any public testimony tonight. Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 2 of 67 Unidentified Speaker: The 19th . Corrie: The 19th of February. (Inaudible discussion from audience.) Corrie: Pardon? Unidentified Speaker: Where is his representative at? Corrie: He has a medical -- Unidentified Speaker: No. I mean his representative, the next guy below him. Corrie: I don't know that. (Inaudible comment from audience.) Corrie: Well, you can ask that, but he's the primary, so -- so if you're here -- I'll take one more question. Yes. Unidentified Speaker: I just want to know is the Comprehensive Plan -- is that the 29th? Corrie: Yes. It's still the 29th. Not for this one, no. Unidentified Speaker: No, but the Comprehensive Plan for Meridian -- Corrie: Right. The 29th. Yes. That's still on the 29th. Unidentified Speaker: Is anything happening between now and the 19th? Corrie: No. The application -- everything stops. No testimony, no nothing, until that -- Bird: Unless they pull the application. Corrie: Unless they pull -- yes. If they pull the application that means that it's all out. All right. Yes. Okay. Nichols: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Yes. Nichols: The sign-up sheet is part of the record already. Corrie: Yes. Okay. Nichols: It has to be part of the record. Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 3 of 67 Item 1. Roll Call Attendance. Corrie: Yes. It's part of the record. Mr. Clerk, roll call attendance, please. Roll-call: __X__ Tammy de Weerd __X__ William Nary __X__ Cherie McCandless __X__ Keith Bird __X__ Mayor Robert Corrie Item 2: Adoption of the Agenda: Item 3: Consent Agenda: A. Approve minutes of December 18, 2001 City Council Regular Meeting: B. Approve minutes of January 2, 2002 City Council Regular Meeting: C. Tabled from December 18, 2001: Five Mile Trunk Latecomer Agreement: D. Tabled from January 2, 2002: Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP 01-029 Request for a Planned Unit Development for a private RV storage and reduced lot sizes in an R-8 zone for proposed Kodiak Subdivision by Kodiak Development, LLC - 2435 South Meridian Road: E. Tabled from January 2, 2002: Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: VAR 01-019 Request for a Variance to exceed 1,000 feet maximum length requirement and to allow the public road being proposed to exceed 450 feet maximum length requirement in an R-8 zone for Kodiak Subdivision by Kodiak Development, LLC - 2435 South Meridian Road: F. Tabled from January 2, 2002: Order of Remand to Planning and Zoning: PP 01-016 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 28 building lots and 5 other lots on 5.4 acres in a proposed R-8 zone for proposed Kodiak Subdivision by Kodiak Development, LLC - 2435 South Meridian Road: G. Tabled from January 2, 2002: Findings of Fact and Conclusions Of Law for Approval: VAR 01-018 Request for a Variance for maximum subdivision block length of 1,000 feet in an R-8 zone for Macaile Meadows by Hillview Land Development, LLC - south of East Fairview Avenue and west of North Cloverdale Road: Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 4 of 67 H. Tabled from January 2, 2002: Findings of Fact and Conclusions Of Law for Approval: FP 01-020 Request for Final Plat approval of 115 building lots and 19 other lots on 28.58 acres in an R-8 zone for Macaile Meadows by Hillview Land Development, LLC – south of East Fairview Avenue and west of North Cloverdale Road: I. Tabled from January 2, 2002: Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: PP 01-019 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 115 building lots and 10 other lots on 29.93 acres in an R-4 zone for proposed Woodbridge No. 2 by Woodbridge Community, LLC - east of South Locust Grove Road and south of East Franklin Road: J. Tabled from January 2, 2002: Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: PFP 01-006 Request for Preliminary/Final Plat approval of 2 building lots on 10 acres in an L-O zone for Tramore Subdivision by Thomas Development Co. - south of West Pine Avenue and east of North Linder Road: K. Tabled from January 2, 2002: Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP 01-036 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for the construction of a 72 unit wood frame, three story senior apartment complex in an L-O zone for proposed Tramore Senior Community by Thomas Development, Co. - south of West Pine Avenue and east of North Linder Road: L. Tabled from January 2, 2002: Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: VAR 01-014 Request for a variance for the requirement to record the Final Plat within one year of approval by City Council in an R-4 zone for Pintail Pointe Subdivision by Kelly Hunemiller - south of West Cherry Lane and east of North Black Cat Road: M. Revised Ashford Greens No. 5 Storm Drainage Easement: Corrie: Thank you. Item No. 2 on the Agenda is adoption of the Agenda. As we noted earlier this evening, Items No. 9 and 10 will be on the request for table on the items. Is there any other Agenda changes? Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: On the Consent Agenda, Item No. C, we will move that to February 5, 2002, and Items No. D, E, and F we'd like to move them to 5D, 5E, and 5F on the regular Agenda. Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 5 of 67 Corrie: Okay. Any other -- on the Department Reports I would like to move No. 4 to No. 19 and I'd like to do a Department Report for my office, very short, and if we would move that to 19, so we don't have to have all the people waiting around for that, which is very minor. Nary: Mr. Mayor, I just want to make note on Item A that I would be abstaining, since I wasn't a member of the Council at that time. Corrie: Okay. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: After the end of the Consent Agenda I would like to make the Council liaison appointments. Corrie: All right. Bird: Mr. Mayor? Oh. Go ahead. Corrie: That would be Item No. 4. Bird: Mr. Mayor, I move we -- Corrie: Shari -- Bird: Mr. Mayor, Shari wants to say something. Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, could we remove J and K from the Consent Agenda to discuss some clarifications on the findings? Bird: To 5J and 5K? Stiles; Yes, please. Corrie: That's for clarification of the findings? Stiles: Yes. Corrie: Staff have any other -- Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: I would move that we adopt the Agenda as noted with the changes and also adopt the Consent Agenda with the changes noted, that D, E, and F will go to 5D, E Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 6 of 67 and F, and J and K will to go 5J and K and Item No. C will be tabled to February 5, 2002. De Weerd: Second. Corrie: Okay. Any further discussion? Okay. Hearing none, roll call vote, Mr. Berg. Role Call: Bird, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Nary, aye. Corrie: Okay. All ayes. Motion to approve the Consent Agenda and also the adoption of the written agenda as well. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 4. Department Reports: A. City Council President Tammy de Weerd: 1. Appointments: Corrie: Okay. Item No. 4. Mrs. de Weerd, Department Liaisons. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I would like to make the following Department Liaison Council appointments. For police, Bill Nary and as well the Human Resource Department. For Council Member McCandless, Public Works. For Council Member Bird Parks and Finance. And for myself fire, City Clerk, and Planning and Zoning or development services. Corrie: Okay. At this point is there anyone of the Council that doesn't wish to fill or take the appointment that's suggested by the president? Okay. Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: I move that we approve -- the Council approve these appointments as stated by the President of the Council. Nary: Second. Corrie: Okay. Motion and second has been made to approve the appointments made by the Council. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion say. All ayes. Motion carried. Congratulations. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 7 of 67 Item 5: (Items Moved from Consent Agenda) Item 5-D. Tabled from January 2, 2002: Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP 01-029 Request for a Planned Unit Development for a private RV storage and reduced lot sizes in an R-8 zone for proposed Kodiak Subdivision by Kodiak Development, LLC - 2435 South Meridian Road: Item 5-E Tabled from January 2, 2002: Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: VAR 01-019 Request for a Variance to exceed 1,000 feet maximum length requirement and to allow the public road being proposed to exceed 450 feet maximum length requirement in an R-8 zone for Kodiak Subdivision by Kodiak Development, LLC - 2435 South Meridian Road: Item 5-F. Tabled from January 2, 2002: Order of Remand to Planning and Zoning, PP 01-016 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 28 building lots and 5 other lots on 5.4 acres in a proposed R-8 zone for proposed Kodiak Subdivision by Kodiak Development, LLC - 2435 South Meridian Road Corrie: Item No. 5 would be what was pulled off from the Consent Agenda and the first one was D, E, and F, which has Kodiak Subdivision Findings of Facts and Conclusion of Law, request for a Planned Unit Development. Also a Variance and request Preliminary Plat. We will open the discussion and have the Planning and Zoning director information. Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, the applicant delivered a letter from Ada County Highway District today. I don't know if you have had an opportunity to read that. It's a little -- not quite clear to either Gary Smith or myself what their intent is. The bottom line is it will change both the Conditional Use Permit and the Preliminary Plat if we are to meet the conditions that ACHD and the Idaho Transportation Department are imposing on this project. In the past the City Council had agreed to approve the Conditional Use Permit. However, that Conditional Use Permit also ties to a site plan that will have to be modified in order to meet the conditions that will be placed on the plat. Now we are at the point where the plat was remanded back to the Planning and Zoning Commission. No one had an opportunity to read this letter from ACHD we received today, did you? Corrie: It was on my desk. Stiles: I think what they are asking is that there just be a private road come off Meridian Road to serve only the office or day-care area and the church. They are requiring that the road in Bear Creek be continued into the project to serve the residential development. I'm a little unclear on what they really mean. I'd have to -- I'm going to have to go back over this letter to even see what it is they are proposing. They are saying that they can make the office area accessible from the residential area, but the office area would not be able to access the residential area. So I don't know how that would work. The applicant is here tonight. I know that legal counsel Bill Nichols has reviewed this matter and maybe he has some suggestions on where we should go, but I Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 8 of 67 do believe that this will require significant changes to the Conditional Use Permit and that if we are going to remand the -- if it's your desire to remand the plat back to Planning and Zoning Commission, we should probably also consider rescinding the approval of the Conditional Use Permit and sending that back as well. But Bill maybe has some other alternatives or suggestions on where we should go. Corrie: Mr. Nichols. Nichols: Mr. Mayor and Members of the Council, I don't know that I have any unique insight into this. I should add that Mr. Jewett also asked staff to look at the Planning and Zoning recommendation that came forward to the Council with regard to the issue upon which the Council's motion was to remand back to the Commission, which had to do with putting barriers between the residential access and Bear Creek and bollards of some sort allowing emergency vehicle access and Mr. Jewett wanted to address that specifically with staff. I guess where I come down is I think we have got fruit basket upset now, because this recommendation from the ACHD staff to the Commission, it's not a condition imposed by the Commission yet, but their staff recommendation for a private street is not what was contemplated by the Council and the thing probably ought to be all opened up again, so that we can hear the testimony on these issues about streets. Wasn't Ms. Richardson here? I think she was here for the prior hearing and she testified as to -- but I don't think they had ITD's input at that point. Perhaps. But, at any rate, Mr. Jewett would like to move forward with a project, but at this point the Conditional Use Permit conditions conflict with the recommendation of ACHD staff to its Commission and so you have -- I mean if ACHD were to impose the recommendations of its staff and we have our CUP conditions, it's not going to go forward. It would be an impossibility, because one can't be met without contravening the other. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: Mr. Nichols, can we remand the Conditional Use Permit back to Planning and Zoning as well? Nichols: I don't think you want to do anything until you take some more testimony and see where it's at. I mean that's my recommendation to you. If you're going to change the findings in any significant way we would need to reopen it, renotice it, and get the new stuff in the record, so that they need to make a decision. The ACHD staff recommendation to the Commission is a new item, it was not received as part of the Public Hearing process, but it should come in, so that you have to act upon it in making a decision. Corrie: Mr. Nichols, if we have Mr. Jewett come up and talk to us is this okay? Because it's not a Public Hearing, we are just hearing some of his ideas again of what he wants to do. Is that all right? Nichols: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, I don't see anything wrong with him coming forward and telling you whether you should reopen this or not or whether -- I Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 9 of 67 mean he can't go into substance, but he can certainly talk about, from his perspective, procedurally without getting into the substance. Corrie: Okay. Mr. Jewett, under those guidelines, speak. Jewett: Please stop me if I go too far then. Corrie: We will. Jewett: Do I need to give my name and address? Corrie: Yes. Just for the record. Jewett: Jim Jewett, 390 East Gentry, Suite 150 in Meridian. Yes. I received this letter e- mailed to me from Ms. Richardson from ACHD and she asked me to deliver it to you folks and then I talked to her again late this afternoon and she wanted me to reiterate this is what her recommendation would be to her Commission, but she can't move forward until there is a finding here. She's already made a finding and that was we come out of Bear Creek, which was her appointed body's focus and so if you read this, what she's saying is there is an option that hasn't been discussed and that's simply a complete private road, no public road at all, the entire road that this body approved would not be public at all. They said if you make it private, then we have no jurisdiction over it, the Highway District. I don't know if that's a substantial change or not. The other thing that she noted in the letter -- and ITD told me this the day after the last hearing -- they will not allow me to enter. That's a high speed road, they will not allow right in, right out. The other issue that I failed to recognize in the last hearing was the church is being affected by a right in, right out as well and they weren't heard on that issue and they have a development agreement, they have an annexation and they weren't burdened with it at that point. If you burden a right in and right out with them now, I think they should be heard from and we do have a representative from the church, I asked them to come tonight, just in case you wanted to hear from them. So the other issue that I had is that I asked -- as Shari spoke of, on the remand back to P&Z, my understanding of the remand was to remove that turnaround at the end of that stub street coming out of Bear Creek and what I wanted to clarify was that at P&Z they made that recommendation to take that out. That was already part of their recommendation to this Council to remove it. So I could simply go back, remove it, and bring it back to the Council. If we go back to P&Z to have them look at something that they have already recommended to remove -- their recommendation almost identically matched your recommendation and they have already -- they said if we are not taking access on Bear Creek we need no turn around and that's why I asked for a clarification on going back to P&Z, because P&Z already made a ruling or made a recommendation to remove it. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: If we need to open this up to bring into public record the issue of ACHD and IDT, we can just solely open it for those specific issues; is that correct? Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 10 of 67 Nichols: Madam President, Mayor, Members of the Council, if you want to reconsider the decision and open it back up, you can do it for the purpose of taking -- limit it to new information that was not available to you at the time the decision was made, if you so choose, or the Council can say we just reopen the Public Hearing for new testimony on new issues or old issues, for that matter. It's your call. Corrie: Discussion, Council? Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: I would like to see us reopen it and -- for new testimony and I don't think it has to be on a couple issues, just the new things. I would like to hear some testimony from the Bear Creek people that are being asked to have their subdivision a thoroughfare for another one, when the Highway Department don't want you to get out on their main highway. So I don't think that we need to remand it back to the Planning and Zoning, I think we need to handle it right at this level and we will probably have to renotice the Public Hearing and get it taken care of and get it taken care of at this level now that the new stuff has come in from ACHD and ITD. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I would be in agreement. It's not that I do not think it would be appropriate to remand back to Planning and Zoning, since we do not have what was being proposed in front of us and I will not vote on something that I do not see. But we do need to open this up for the transportation discussion, we do need hear from the church and Bear Creek representatives, and so I would also be in agreement to open this back up to Public Hearing. Jewett: If I may ask, the one other -- the situation -- one other situation that I have, which I will ask you and maybe you can direct me towards an answer. My only issue in timing is trying to get the sewer from Elk Run past the canal before water comes in in the spring, because if I don't, then I'll have to look at boring it or waiting until the water goes out. Now that's all off site. That was all an Elk Run issue that didn't get done because of the fiber optics blockage, the thing we discussed with the annexation. Is there a way that I can proceed forward on that design -- approval of that design and construction of that line to our property edge while they are getting this back opened up, so that that won't block me if the water comes in and we have to sit for six months for the water to go out. Corrie: I don't know whether we have got a legal question here or not, but I don't know whether we can -- go ahead, Gary. Bird: Ask Gary. He's got an answer to that. Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 11 of 67 Smith: Mr. Mayor and Council Members, I don't think that the sewer issue would really affect the access as far as what's been discussed at this point. It's going to have to cross the Kennedy and I don't know whether an approval -- it would have to be approved by the City, the plans, if it gets that far, before any action is taken by the Council on the development, the plans would need to be approved by the City and subsequently approved by DEQ before any construction could take place, would be the only thing. But, again, I don't know that that needs to necessarily hinge to even this development. It's just the developer extending sewer line. Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: We have already annexed and everything on the church and we've got to get the sewer down there anyway, don't we, Gary? So I mean, really, if the plans come in and it was approved, there would be no reason that they couldn't go on down with the sewer. Smith: It would all be taking place -- well, most of it within a public right of way, depending on how the design falls out. Nary: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: I just have a concern, Mr. Jewett. It appears to me that we have some wrinkles here to work out, but there is always the potential that this project would be denied; correct? I just am concerned that if you get the sewer plan approved and you proceed and expend the money to get this done, which is I'm assuming what you're asking, are you going to come before us and say, well, I already spent all this money getting the sewer up there, you better approve my plans now, when we really have, I think, some minor things, but I think we still need to do that. Are you willing to take that risk and at least sign a waiver that you're doing that at your risk, not the City's, if you go ahead and extend that now? Jewett: That's a whole other issue. I don't know if you remember, but we came through on the annexation and zoning and development agreement on this parcel prior to a plat, but we have all that in place. I just think we need to figure out some way to work it out and -- Nary: And I would agree. Jewett: I don't really want to go there. I mean we have got solutions, we just need to get them taken care of and I understand there are processes and that process is to reopen, if that's the decision of this Council, and move forward. That's really what I want to do is get it moving forward and I just don't want to get it moving forward and then all of a sudden stop for six months waiting for the water to go out of the Kennedy. I know the church is waiting for their church building to sell in town for them to move forward, but if something happens tomorrow, they told me they want to move forward, they would be in the same position, they would be stuck without sewer, because it's not past the Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 12 of 67 Kennedy. All we are looking at is to get past the Kennedy. There is another issue that I will bring up. From where it comes out of Elk Run to where it passes the Kennedy lateral to our property line is off site, it's not on our property. Elk Run developers were supposed to have built that, but because of the blockage of the fiber optics, it was never built. So I guess I'm looking to who is responsible to finish construction of that line that was never finished. So it may not even be my expense to do. We may be looking at the Elk Run developers to finish it, because they haven't finished their obligations to finish their frontage. I simply found a solution of how to get it done by running through the easements and stuff. So getting it to our property line I don't believe is going to end up being our expense, because we are looking at the previous developer. So -- and that's all I'm looking at is getting to our property line. Now if the church needs it, that might be something you work out with the church. Corrie: You're at their mercy at that time. Jewett: I'm at the mercy a lot of time of things. Corrie: Aren't we all. Jewett: Yes. Corrie: Okay. Council, any other discussion? Okay. I'll entertain a motion to -- on either -- where you want to go with a Public Hearing with notification and then set a date and time. Or Consent Agenda, approve each one of them. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I guess I'm uncomfortable even making a decision yet until some of the issues that were just brought up are discussed. The applicant certainly does take the risk that -- of going forward with the project so he beats the water coming in, but this may not be approved by then and then there is the second question of who is bringing that line. So I don't know if this is a question for the attorney or for Gary, but does anyone want to attempt an answer or is this something that we can't answer tonight? Corrie: Mr. Smith. Smith: Mr. Mayor and Council Members, the development -- or developer of Elk Run Subdivision had included the sewer to his south property line as part of his development plan and then there was a problem that was encountered with the fiber optics and there was never a solution brought forward to resolve the extension of that sewer line. So it was the responsibility of the developer of Elk Run Subdivision. It was extended out of his subdivision to the right of way and it was extended to the south until they ran into the fiber optic and it was never resolved as to how it should continue to the south, so it stopped. Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 13 of 67 De Weerd: So this applicant found a way to find a solution to the fiber optic, but, again, my question is who then brings the sewer line to the property line? Smith: I don't have an answer for you, Council Member. Corrie: Gary, was fiber optics put in the right place? Smith: No, it was not. Corrie: It sounds like it wasn't. Smith: No, it was not, and we had several meetings with the Highway Department and it was just never resolved. They were not able to get the fiber optics moved into its correct position. They didn't want us moving out into the shoulder of the roadway with the sewer, which was what we could do in order keep it in the right of way and that was where it all came to a stop. Nary: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: It appears to me if we look at -- if we are looking at the individual application set before us, Item D is the approval of the finding of the development for the project, and at least the information we are talking about is impacted by -- and Item E is the block length and the public roadway and it's impacted by the information from ACHD. So it appears from what we have been talking about that we need a little bit more public testimony on those two issues. Item F sounded as if our discussion was that we don't read really need to remand this any longer, because it really is something that the Planning and Zoning Commission did already make a recommendation is to remove that, but it does sound like we need a Public Hearing. I don't know if we can help on these issues that are before us with these three items, that we can really help Mr. Jewett much on the issue of the sewer. I mean I don't -- it doesn't appear that the approval of these you're going to get that sewer there any quicker and maybe I'm just not tracking with you, Mr. Jewett, but I'm not sure how -- it appears to me we need to set this over for a Public Hearing. We need to get some information. We need to make sure we understand all the information that's before us on these three -- on these really two items and make a decision. But I'm not sure how making a decision on these two items gets the sewer any closer, since it's not on your property and it's another builder's responsibility to do it. Jewett: I would agree that the issue of the sewer off site is not an issue in these applications, other than we need to have sewer. My question was I'm putting forth the fact that I'll have my engineer design that sewer and get it going. As Mr. Smith indicated, there is a process that has to be -- the plans have to be accepted by the City, reviewed by the City, reviewed by DEQ. There is a process there that needs to start and what I'm asking, my expenditure now to design a sewer is not that much, because we have already potholed it, we have already went out there and done all this other design to make sure we could make it work in the easement and get away from the fiber optics. The issue of -- I would like to be able to start and, you know, negotiations or talks with Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 14 of 67 Gary or whoever at the City and what's going to happen, who is going to pay for that sewer line? Is there an ability to go back to Elk Run developers and charge them at this point? I don't know. But I would like to start that dialogue. I don't think we can start the dialogue -- I think we can start it at the same time we start the design. Ultimately -- I'll sit here and say openly that if it gets down to it and nobody's going to step up, I'm going to step up and build it and the church I'm assuming is going to step up and build it or how else are we going to get the sewer? I've witnessed many times in this room this Council approving reimbursement of other developers for off site and mostly recently at Woodbridge on our water line and Bridgetower for a sewer line that was off site. That is an option. I know I don't want to sit here and ask the City to pay anything for me, but we need to start that and I think that if we have some direction that we can, ultimately if you say no to me at some point, you still have the church sitting there. The sewer is not even to my property line and it's got to get across my property to even get to the church. The church has an annexation, a development agreement already in place. It's something that we need to bring forward and deal with and I'm willing to take that lead to get that design work started and get it in the process. We can work through with Gary and bring it back to this Council with that plat. I mean I don't know what you would be looking at in a renotice right now, but it gives us a start. I mean if we wait until we renotice and start I'm sure we are not going to be able to meet any time frames and I just think that -- I didn't cause that problem. I've worked really hard to fix that problem. That's why, you know, at City Council I think we had three tablings addressing that sewer issue on annexation until we finally had it worked out and decided to go with the easement, the church agreed to an easement, I agreed to an easement to get that fixed. That was March of last year. I would just like to really move forward, even at a snail's pace, but move forward and I think that's one part we can move forward, but I think that -- I think that Gary needs some direction that -- you know, that he can accept a set of plans to review. I mean, like you said, it's just a developer extending a sewer line, but I think we need to start that talk and discussion. Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: Could we ask Mr. -- Will, how soon could we get this renoticed? Could we get it renoticed in time to have the -- to reopen the public hearing the 5th or are we going to have to wait until the 19th? Berg: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, it will probably be the 19th. We have a switch in papers and the advertising dates for that. We have to have at least 15 days prior to the hearing and we usually don't count the hearing day as a day. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: So we are looking at the 19th then? Yes, Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I don't see why we can't set the dialogue with the Public Works Department and, again, it's cautionary, proceed at your own risk type of thing, and I don't think the church right now is under the same time constraints that you are, so, you know, this definitely is something that you need to be looking at and get this back to a Public Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 15 of 67 Hearing on February 19th and move forward with the discussion on transportation and roads and access and that sort of thing. Jewett: I appreciate that and I have worked closely with the church up until now and I will continue to work with that and I understand that our time frame may be a little different than theirs, but theirs is subject to change. One other thing that I will offer up, as what I'm going to do for the 19th. I was hoping to get on sooner than the 19th, but time constraints are time constraints and I would just like some confirmation that this is appropriate. I will bring two designs, one as it exists today and on the way ACHD would like to see it. That way I hope that depending on which way this Council decides to go, you have a plan that's approvable. I guess I would just like to know if that's appropriate to have these two alternatives, so that we don't have to go anywhere else from there and we can end it. That's one way. I guess the third option is no. So one of those three options. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I guess it makes it difficult for staff to review, but, you know, personally I would prefer it and this kind of goes back to why I don't think like to annex and zone until we have a Preliminary Plat in front of us, because then you wouldn't be extending this out so long. So I don't know -- I don't know if staff -- we have an ordinance that says you can only have one design, but that would be my preference. Corrie: Shari? Stiles: I don't see a particular problem with that, as long as we have it prior to putting it in the paper, so we can distribute it to all the agencies and make sure that's available for them and also the reduced copies so that we can distribute it to the adjacent landowners. But, you know, if we don't have that in time -- I mean that was a recommendation of the Planning and Zoning Commission to have the revised plan to City Council ten days prior to the Public Hearing. That was never done and so that kind of exacerbated the situation I think here. Jewett: So if my looking at the calendar is correct, the 19th would require that you have it no later than the 4th, but let's -- okay. No later than the end of January. That shouldn't be an issue. That's two weeks. Nichols: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Nichols. Nichols: Mr. Mayor and Members of the Council, just -- and I don't want to belabor this point, but we anticipate that the Council will adopt an ordinance naming the Valley Times as the official public newspaper effective January 30th, but the Valley Times publishes on Tuesdays, I think; is that right? Mondays. Okay. Well -- and so if Monday the 4th it's published, then we are just barely okay. All right. Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 16 of 67 Corrie: Can you meet the -- Jewett: Yes. That's -- Corrie: All right. Okay. Jewett: Thank you. Corrie: Okay. Any other discussion? Okay. I will entertain a motion to the effect of the Public Hearing notification -- Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: I would move that we re-publicize open for open meeting -- Public Hearing for Items D, E, and F, which is the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law for approval, Kodiak Subdivision, the Variance for Kodiak Subdivision, and also the Planning and Zoning for Kodiak Subdivision, get it published, and set it for February 19th , 2002. Corrie: Motion is made. Do I hear a second? McCandless: Second. Corrie: Motion has been made and second, excuse me, to have notification of Public Hearing stated for the 19th of February on Items D, E, and F on the Consent Agenda. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion say aye. Opposed no? Motion carried. All ayes. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 5-J: Tabled from January 2, 2002: Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: PFP 01-006 Request for Preliminary/Final Plat approval of 2 building lots on 10 acres in an L-O zone for Tramore Subdivision by Thomas Development Co. - south of West Pine Avenue and east of North Linder Road. Item 5-K: Tabled from January 2, 2002: Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP 01-036 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for the construction of a 72 unit wood frame, three story senior apartment complex in an L-O zone for proposed Tramore Senior Community by Thomas Development, Co. - south of West Pine Avenue and east of North Linder Road Corrie: The next item would be J and K. It was requested by staff to pull off the Consent Agenda for clarification. Shari? Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, we received a letter from the firm of Spinks, Butler and Pratt today and Brad Hawkins-Clark did go over the recommended changes and we are Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 17 of 67 in agreement with them. I don't know if you have those findings with you, if you wanted the detail. It all -- all the changes have to do with the Exhibit A of the findings. Do you have those? Corrie: Which one is that? I don't – Stiles: Is it Exhibit A of the Findings or the Development Agreement? The Findings? And I can get these changes to Bill Nichols after the meeting so it will be clear. On page four of nine of Exhibit A, under item six, the third line of that paragraph we'd ask that the words curb, gutter, and be deleted from that line and that in line four where it says east, it should be changed to -- well, no, that changed again. That one's okay. I'm sorry. Forget the fourth line. De Weerd: So the first line is what, Shari? Stiles: The third line would just say applicant shall review -- revise the Preliminary Plat to include landscaping. They will do the landscaping on the west side of the lot and curb, gutter, and sidewalk on the east side of the lot. De Weerd: Thank you. Stiles: On page five of nine, paragraph eight, the 5th line, delete the rest of the paragraph after the second Tramore. De Weerd: So starting with take into? Stiles: Yes. And add provide emergency access as approved by the fire department. Page seven of nine under the Preliminary/Final Plat recommendation, that should be deleted in its entirety. Ada County Highway District did acknowledge it was confused and that there was no need for a relocation of the entry drive. Page nine of nine, the last paragraph, the CUP recommendation, that should be deleted in its entirety. Nary: Which one was that again? Stiles: It's page nine of nine and that would be the last paragraph and I believe with those changes we wouldn't have a problem with your acceptance of those findings. Nichols: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Nichols. Nichols: Mayor, Members of the Council, my suggestion to you would be that if this is acceptable to the Council, that you direct us, then, to modify Exhibit A to the Findings per staff's recommendation and we will so mark it and note in the margin per Council action of January 15, 2002, so that this can be signed by the Mayor tomorrow and we won't have to republish different findings and I think that would probably be acceptable to the applicant to do it in that fashion. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 18 of 67 Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: Shari, did the issue of the bridge get resolved in the text of these findings? Stiles: I believe the bridge issue is just that it's going to be the responsibility of whoever develops Lot 2. De Weerd: Okay. Stiles: They will be taking on that responsibility, as it is all entirely on their lot, so we thought that was fine. De Weerd: Okay. Corrie: Any other additions, Shari? Stiles: No. That's it. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I move we approve the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for a request for Preliminary and Final Plat approval of 2 building lots on 10 acres in an L-O zone Tramore Subdivision and to include the comment or the changes as noted by staff and have the Mayor sign and the Clerk attest. And those changes were to Exhibit A. Bird: Second. Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and second two approve J and K with the appropriate changes on Exhibit A, ask the attorney to draw up the changes, and be signed by the Mayor and attested by the City Clerk. Any further discussion? Hearing none, roll call vote, Mr. Berg. Role Call: Bird, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Nary, aye. Corrie: All ayes. Motion is carried. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I move we approve the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law for approval for a request of a Conditional Use Permit for the construction of a 72 unit wood frame three story senior apartment complex in an L-O zone for the proposed Tramore Senior Community and have the Mayor sign and the Clerk attest. Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 19 of 67 Bird: Second. Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded. Any further discussion on the motion? Hearing none, Mr. Berg, roll call vote. Role Call: Bird, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Nary, aye. Corrie: All ayes. Motion is carried. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 6. Ordinance No. 02-934: AZ 01-010 Request for annexation and zoning of .99 acres from R1 to C-G zones for Podiatry Building by Smith Brighton, LLC - 1065 East Fairview Avenue: Corrie: Okay. I believe that's all we pulled off the Consent Agenda, so we will go to Item 6, which is an Ordinance, request for annexation and zoning of .99 acres from R-1 to C- G zones for Podiatry Building by Smith Brighton, LLC, 1065 East Fairview Avenue. The Ordinance No. is 02-934. So at this point, then, I would like to have the City Clerk read the Ordinance No. 02-934 by Title only at this point. Berg: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council. Ordinance No. 02-934. An Ordinance finding that certain land to be known as a Podiatry Building owned by Marshal Ogden, the location of which lies contiguous or adjacent to the city limits of the City of Meridian, County of Ada, State of Idaho; and finding that the owner has made a request for annexation in writing to the Council; and that said land be annexed to the City of Meridian and zoning designated general retail and service commercial district, (C-G); and declaring that said land, by proper legal description as described below, be a part of the City of Meridian, County of Ada, State of Idaho; repealing all ordinances, resolutions, orders or parts thereof in conflict herewith; and directing the city engineer to add said property to the official maps of the City of Meridian, Idaho; and directing the Clerk of the City of Meridian to file a certified copy of the Ordinance and map of the areas to be annexed with the Ada County Recorder, Auditor, Treasurer and Assessor, and the State Tax Commission of the State of Idaho, pursuant to Idaho Code Section 50-223 and Section 63-2215. Corrie: Okay. The audience has heard the reading of Ordinance No. 02-934 by Title only. Is there anyone from the audience who would like to have the Ordinance read in its entirety? Okay. Hearing none, Council, I'll entertain a motion for Ordinance No.02- 934. Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: I move we approve Ordinance 02-934 with suspension of rules. De Weerd: Second. Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 20 of 67 Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded to approve Ordinance No. 934 with suspension of rules. Any further discussion? Nary: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: Mr. Nichols, does the state code require that the Title reflect that the suspension of the rules was done pursuant state code? And, if so, should we then insert that language into the Title? Nichols: Mr. Nary, Mayor, Members of the Council, I do not recall that it's to be inserted in the Title. I do know that it has to be specific to the motion. It may be practice and I don't have an opposition to inserting it if that's Council's pleasure, but I don't recall from the specific statute that that's -- that it has to be in the Title of the Ordinance that it's under suspension of the Rules. Nary: Then I guess, Mr. Mayor, I would wish to make a substitute -- or an addendum to the motion and second to simply include in the Title, because that's what's going to get printed, that we did suspend the rules pursuant to the state code or with the appropriate number, which I don't remember off the top of my head. But that way it's clear to anyone that's reading it that that was the action that was taken by reading the Ordinance in the paper. Corrie: Okay. That being a motion, do I hear a second? De Weerd: I will second. Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded for the addendum to be added on the notation of the Ordinance that it was done with the suspension of rules. Any further discussion? Okay. Hearing none. All in favor of that addendum motion say aye. Opposed no? Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Corrie: Okay. Now we need to go back to the original motion of Ordinance No. 02-934, with suspension of rules, with the addendum added. Any further discussion? Hearing none, roll call vote, Mr. Berg. Role Call: Bird, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Nary, aye. Corrie: All ayes. Motion is carried. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. ONE ABSENT Item 7. Ordinance No. 02-935: AZ 01-014 Request for annexation and zoning of .66 acres from R-1 to R-8 zones for Ted Cunningham by Ted Cunningham - 125 Blue Herron Lane: Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 21 of 67 Corrie: Next is Ordinance No. 02-935. This is a request for annexation and zoning of .66 acres from R-1 to R-8 zones for Ted Cunningham by Ted Cunningham, 125 Blue Herron Lane. Mr. Berg, if you will read the Ordinance No. 935 by Title only. Berg: Thank you, Mr. Mayor and Members of the Council. Ordinance No. 02-935, an Ordinance finding that certain land to be known as the property of Ted Cunningham, the location of which lies contiguous or adjacent to the city limits of the City of Meridian, County of Ada, State of Idaho; and finding that the owner has made a request for annexation in writing to the Council and that said land be annexed to the City of Meridian and zoning designated medium density residential district (R-8); and declaring that said land, by proper legal description as described below, be a part of the City of Meridian, County of Ada, State of Idaho; repealing all ordinances, resolutions, orders or parts thereof in conflict herewith; and directing the city engineer to add said property to the official maps of the City of Meridian, Idaho; and directing the Clerk of the City of Meridian to file a certified copy of the ordinance and map of the areas to be annexed with the Ada County Recorder, Auditor, Treasurer and Assessor, and the State Tax Commission of the State of Idaho, pursuant to Idaho Code Section 50-223 and Section 63-2215. Corrie: Okay. You have heard the reading of Ordinance No. 02-935 by Title only. Is there anyone here who would like to have it read in its entirety? Hearing none, Council, I'd entertain a motion on Ordinance 02-935. Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: I move that we approved Ordinance No. 02-935 with the suspension of rules and also to reflect in the Title only that it's published that we did order the suspension of rules. McCandless: Second. Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded to approve Ordinance No. 935 in it's entirety, with the notation. Any further discussion? Okay. Clerk, roll call. Role Call: Bird, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Nary, aye. Corrie: All ayes. Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 8: Ordinance No. 02-936: AZ 01-017 Request for annexation and zoning of .193 acres from RUT to R-4 zones for Packard Acres No. 1 by Packard Estates Developers, LLC - east of North Wingate Lane and south of East Ustick Road: Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 22 of 67 Corrie: Item No. 8 is Ordinance No. 02-936, request for annexation and zoning of .193 acres from RUT to R-4 zones for Packard Acres No. 1 by Packard Estates Developers, LLC, east of North Wingate Lane and south of East Ustick Road. So if the Clerk will read Ordinance No. 02-936 by Title only. Berg: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council. Ordinance No. 02-936. An Ordinance finding that certain land adjacent to Packard Acres No. 1 is contiguous or adjacent to the city limits of the City of Meridian, County of Ada, State of Idaho, and finding that the owner has made a request for annexation in writing to the Council and that said land be annexed to the City of Meridian and zoning designated low density residential district (R-4); and declaring that said land, by proper legal description as described below, be a part of the City of Meridian, County of Ada, State of Idaho, repealing all ordinances, resolutions, orders or parts thereof in conflict herewith; and directing the city engineer to add said property to the official maps of the City of Meridian, Idaho; and directing the Clerk of the City of Meridian to file a certified copy of the Ordinance and map of the areas to be annexed with Ada County Recorder, Auditor, Treasurer and Assessor, and the State Tax Commission of the State of Idaho, pursuant to Idaho Code Section 50-223 and Section 63-2215. Corrie: Okay. You have heard the reading of Ordinance No. 02-936 by Title only. Is there anyone from the audience who would like to have Ordinance No. 936 read in its entirety? Hearing none, I will entertain a motion from Council on Ordinance No. 936. Nary: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: I would move the approval of Ordinance No. 02-936, request for annexation and zoning of .193 acres from an RUT to R-4 zones for Packard Acres No. 1 by Packard Estates Developers, LLC, with the addition to the Title that includes that the Council by - - pursuant to Idaho Code waived the reading of the Rules as required to reflect in the Title. McCandless: Second. Corrie: Okay. Motion made and seconded to approve Ordinance No. 936 with the addition of the statement by Title only and the suspension of rules. Any further discussion? Hearing none, Mr. Berg. Role Call: Bird, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Nary, aye. Corrie: Okay. All ayes. Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 9. Tabled from December 18, 2001: FP 01-015 Request for Final Plat approval of 23 building lots and 5 other lots on 8.15 acres in an R-4 zone for Staten Park Subdivision by D'Alessio Building Development - south of West Ustick Road and North Black Cat Road: Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 23 of 67 Corrie: Item No. 9, tabled from December 18, 2001, it's a request for a Final Plat approval of 23 building lots and 5 other lots on 8.15 acres in an R-4 zone for Staten Park Subdivision by D'Alessio Building Development, south of West Ustick Road and north of Black Cat Road. Council, you have in front of you also a request to have that tabled to the 5th of February due to the sale of the property. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Ms. de Weerd. De Weerd: I would make a motion that we table FP 01-015, request for Final Plat approval of 23 building lots and 5 other lots for Staten Park Subdivision to February 5, 2002. Bird: Second. Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded to table Item No. 9, FP 01-015, until the 5th of February meeting. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of that motion say aye. Opposed no? All ayes. Motion is carried. We will take that up on the 5th of February. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 10: Public Hearing: CPA 01-001 Request for a text change amendment to the 1993 Comprehensive Plan by Falcon Creek, LLC: Corrie: The next one is a Public Hearing. This is a request for a text change amendment to the 1993 Comprehensive Plan by Falcon Creek, LLC, and as we mentioned earlier at the beginning of the meeting, that was requested to be tabled until the 19th of February for a continuation of the Public Hearing. Council have any discussion? Okay. I'll entertain a motion on the continued Public Hearing for Item No.11. No. Excuse me. Item 10. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: Procedurally how can you continue a Public Hearing if you haven't opened it? So -- Corrie: Oh, you're absolutely right. I didn't open it. De Weerd: We are going to table it; right? Corrie: Right. De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Mayor? Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 24 of 67 Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I would make a motion to table CPA 01-001, request for text change amendment to the '93 Comprehensive Plan by Falcon Creek, LLC, to February 19,2002. Bird: Second. Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded to table the Public Hearing on Item No. 10, CPA 01-001. Nary: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: By tabling this, this is from a noticed Public Hearing, which I know we haven't opened, but by tabling the Public Hearing does Mr. Berg have to renotice this hearing or if we open the Public Hearing can we simply continue it? Because all those people that were here anyway heard that and the notice will be posted anyway. Would that be correct, Mr. Berg? Wouldn't you have to renotice it if we tabled it? Berg: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, yes, I feel if we tabled it I would have to renotice it and get it out to the people, whereas if we continued the hearing after we opened it I could just call the -- I'm sure I could get ahold of Mr. Crane and he could contact all of his people, as well as I would contact the applicant. Nary: And it was brought up at the beginning of the meeting by the Mayor that it was going to be continued to the 19th of February, so I mean they did have some notice we would do that, as well as the Agenda notice that we can print it anyway; is that correct? De Weerd: I will withdraw my motion. Bird: I will withdraw my second. Corrie: Okay. In that case I will open the Public Hearing on Item No. 10 and request that the Public Hearing be continued until the 19th as requested. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I'd make a motion to continue the Public Hearing for CPA 01-001, request for text change amendment to the '93 Comprehensive Plan by Falcon Creek, LLC, to February 19, 2002. Nary: Second. Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 25 of 67 Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded to continue the Public Hearing for CPA 01-001. Is there any further discussion? All those in favor of the motion say aye. All ayes. Motion carried. Thank you. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 11: Public Hearing: CUP 01-028 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a fast food restaurant with drive-thru in a C-G zone for proposed Wendy's by Wenco, Inc. - northwest intersection of Corporate Drive and East First Street: Corrie: Item No.11 is a Public Hearing. This is a request for a Conditional Use Permit for a fast food restaurant with drive-thru in a C-G zone for proposed Wendy's restaurant by Wenco, Inc., northwest intersection of Corporate Drive and East First Street. At this time I will open the Public Hearing and invite staff comments first. Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, this is for the property that's immediately north of Bolo's. It's in between Meridian Road and East First Street. There is currently a house on that site that was approved. It was temporary use for Beniton Construction, I believe. We have read the recommendations of the Planning & Zoning Commission and have two items that were outlined in a position statement that David McKinnon wrote today and hopefully you have that in your packet. Recommendation 1.1 should be revised to read the three existing crab apples shall be moved and replanted on site an recommendation 1.2, the paragraph should be replaced with applicant shall install parking as submitted. There were -- the parking configuration that had been submitted, the dimensions didn't comply with city ordinance, but the applicant's representative did come with some dimensions that are approved through the Urban Land Institute and Planning and Zoning Commission recommended that we approve those as they were shown on the plan. With those changes we would recommend approval with all other staff and agency conditions. Nary: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: Shari, on the recommendation 1.2, wouldn't it simply be easier to delete from that sentence and Ordinance 11-13-4.F? Because we do want them to stripe it and we do want them to typically submit a site plan, so the Ordinance I think is where the issue was, wasn't it, as to the size of the spacing and all of that? Stiles: Unfortunately, I don't have the actual findings with me, so you're probably right. Nary: Yes. I think if we just delete that last portion of the sentence it would still be correct, because then the sentence would read: Shall be installed and striped in accordance with the submitted site plan. Stiles: Yes, we certainly do want them to be striped. Corrie: Any other comments from staff? Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 26 of 67 De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: So, Shari, regarding the parking stalls, is it -- I'm just asking for clarification. Does it still comply with the standard parking sizes as required by our Ordinance? Stiles: No, they don't. That's what they changed when they submitted -- De Weerd: And that is the recommendation from P&Z to change those to a smaller size? Stiles: Yes. I believe it was mostly the length. De Weerd: Length. Stiles: Because they were using the overhang for the landscaped areas. I don't think they are asking for any relief on the width. I should probably double-check that. I don't know if Mr. Nary still remembers what that issue was. De Weerd: One other question, Shari, and that's regarding the buffer over by Blimpie's. The five foot landscape buffer. That is going to be maintained? It's going to be required; is that correct? Stiles: They are not going to have the screen -- the crabs, they are going to relocate those on the site. Planning and Zoning Commission recommended that the concrete median would be adequate as a separation for the two driveways. De Weerd: Rather than a landscaped median? Stiles: Yes. Nary: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: I can maybe shed some light on that for Councilwoman de Weerd. That particular strip there will not be maintained in grass, when that strip was -- the recommendation was to allow it to be cement, but to have the screening -- the site barrier screening, because that drive-thru faces west, the drive-thru for Blimpie's faces east, and the screening is to prevent light shining from cars facing each other and that wasn't a spot to be able to maintain grass and that was the reason for that. The other question that Shari mentioned was the parking stalls. I think the issue and the -- Mr. Strite could probably answer that, but the issue is the length of the parking stalls. They were a lot longer than is necessary. The one thing I didn't see in here, Shari, I didn't see it in front of you, was an issue about an escape lane, an escape out of that drive-thru lane and I didn't see that in here and maybe I just missed it. Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 27 of 67 Stiles: I don't recall what that was. Where would it be located? Nary: In the middle of that drive-thru, because that's such a lengthy drive-thru lane, there is 13 cars I think in that drawing, there was an issue that was raised about having an escape right in this location so that way if a car was here, they would be able to exit, but it would be an exit only, there would be no access into the drive-thru in this location, but merely an exit and Mr. Strite indicated it wouldn't be a very difficult design, why we ought to do that and I didn't see that in these findings. Stiles: Yes. I do recall that being discussed, so that should be added to there -- to the findings. De Weerd: I have no further questions. Corrie: Anything else, Shari? Stiles: No, I don't. Corrie: Okay. Any other staff comments? This is a Public Hearing, we have opened the Public Hearing for this and the representative of the applicant? If you could raise your right hand. Do you swore the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Strite: I do. Corrie: Give your name and address, please. Strite: Mr. Mayor, Council Members, Billy Ray Strite, 1010 Allante, Boise. I'm here on behalf of Wendy's, the applicant, certainly in support. I wasn't exactly sure how to put together a presentation after I read the Findings of Fact. Councilman Nary did aptly bring up -- and I was going to suggest that the by-pass lane be included. What I did do and for public record I put together my findings of fact as I recall them and wrote them down. I had -- at that time Commissioner Nary made the motion and Mr. Centers seconded that motion and they added an Item No. 15, which was the escape lane, one way out. I subsequently sent a memo and a revised site plan to Mr. McKinnon. I'd like, if I could, to present that to the Council and I also have one for the staff. I apologize I don't have one for everybody. Again, I wasn't sure how to put this together after reading the comments this afternoon. I did, however, get the position statement from David. He was nice enough to fax that to me. So maybe if you just take a second and look at these. I have no have further comments. I think that the Planning and Zoning Commission was right in their findings and if this, in fact, would be sufficient evidence of that -- again, you will find in my notes relative to the conditions as were imposed by the Planning and Zoning Commission and you will find that the revised site plan included the by-pass lane number one. It also included the raised light screen, which was not a landscape screen, but it was one that was brought up by the Commission and I think that aptly so and it was noted in my notes that it would be something we would discuss with staff. No problem with the condition and we are prepared to do so. And the final issue, of course, was the parking dimensioning and as I think Councilwoman de Weerd mentioned, we didn't really change anything in the width, all we are suggesting is ULI Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 28 of 67 has suggested in numerous articles that in lieu of providing, as you have in your parking lot, you might all recall pulling up and hitting a parking bumper, three foot in front of that parking bumper you have got a concrete curb. So it's a little redundant. We are paving more land, we are losing more of our landscaping, so we requested that the dimensions be reduced by the width of two foot eight to three feet, that being the average dimension from wheel base to bumper on a normal automobile. Again, I did not bring the ULI manual with me, I think the Planning and Zoning made a fine statement and I would trust that the Council will do the same. I have no other suggestions. I think the staff report, based on the findings that you see in the Planning and Zoning Commission had given in the rewriting by Mr. McKinnon, with the addition of the by-pass lane is certainly acceptable by Wendy's and we'd ask for your approval. Corrie: Any comments? Questions? Bird: I have none. Corrie: Okay. Thank you. Strite: Thank you. Corrie: Mr. Berg, do we have any testimony from things -- okay. All right. This is a Public Hearing. I will open the Public Hearing to anyone from the public who would like to speak in this Public Hearing in favor of Wendy's. Okay. Anybody that's not sure that wants to testify? Anybody who is against Wendy's testimony? Okay. Hearing none, Billy Ray, if you have anything that you want to say again, I don't think see anybody having any testimony, so -- Strite: Thank you, Mayor, no. Corrie: Okay. Let the record show that the applicant said no. Okay. Council, discussion? De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I guess a little clarification. The length of the parking stalls were more for protection of trees in the case that those parking stalls were abutting the landscaped area that had trees, because of the damage to the trees with the overhang of the cars, and in this regard it didn't have any trees, so I would not be opposed to the length of the parking stalls. I guess you would have some concern with the overhang and the sidewalk there, that you may be a little squeezed in walking by the cars with the overhang, but I don't know that that's a big issue. So I have no further problems with what's being recommended. Corrie: Any discussion? Okay. If there is no further discussion, I will entertain a motion to close the Public Hearing. De Weerd: So move. Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 29 of 67 Bird: Second. Corrie: Motion made and seconded to close the Public Hearing on Item No. 11, CUP 01-028, Wendy's by Wenco, Inc. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion say aye. Opposed no? All ayes. Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Corrie: Any further discussion, Council? Bird: I have none, Mayor. Corrie: I'll entertain a motion on the request for the Conditional Use Permit for Wendy's. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I move we approve CUP 01-028, request for a Conditional Use Permit for a fast food restaurant with drive-thru in a C-G zone for proposed Wendy's by Wenco, Inc., and to include all staff comments with the noted changes to include the by-pass lane that was not in the current findings and to have the attorney draw up the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law and Decision of Order. Bird: Second. Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded to approve the request for Conditional Use Permit and to include staff comments and changes and have the attorney draw up the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision of Order. Any further discussion? Hearing none, Mr. Berg. Role Call: Bird, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Nary, aye. Corrie: All ayes. Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 12: Public Hearing: AZ 01-019 Request for annexation and zoning of 4.25 acres from RUT to C-N zones for LDS Church by Larry Maurer - south of East Franklin Road and east of South Locust Grove: Item 13: Public Hearing: CUP 01-038 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for the development of an LDS Church in a C-N zone for LDS Church by Larry Maurer - south of East Franklin Road and east of South Locust Grove Road: Corrie: Item Nos. 12 and 13 are two Public Hearings. One is a request for annexation and zoning of 4.25 acres from RUT to C-N zones for an LDS Church and Item No. 13 is also a Public Hearing requesting a Conditional Use Permit for the development of the Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 30 of 67 LDS Church in a C-N zone for an LDS Church by Larry Maurer. At this time, since this does have a Public Hearing on both items, I will open both of them at this time. Your testimony could be for either one or both for the record today. At this time I will open the Public Hearing, have Staff's comments first. Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, this is property that is just across the street of what was formally approved as Cobblestone Square Apartments. We did receive evidence that the parcel line adjustment is being accomplished in the county, as we would not be able to do that in the city limits with our current ordinance. They have also submitted a revised landscape plan. Hopefully you have a copy of that in your packet that we have been assured that 15 additional trees will be provided as part of that plan. We did have a letter from Arthur Berry protesting the church appearing there, because of the state code requirement requiring anyplace that's dispensing alcohol to be at least 300 feet away and the applicant's representative has indicated to me tonight that his property is over 400 feet away, so it would not impair the ability to get a license there and that can also be waived by Council. So with that we would recommend approval of the project, both the annexation and zoning and a Conditional Use Permit with the staff and agency conditions. Corrie: Okay. Any questions, Council, of staff? De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: Shari, I don't see in the recommendation from the Planning and Zoning Commission, but there is a letter in here asking about tiling of ditches and making sure their irrigation water is delivered to them. Usually you have standard comments in the staff comments about irrigation or laterals. Are there ditches running through this property and, if so, will they be required to be tiled or is that something that wasn't addressed at P&Z? Stiles: They will be required to tile it. That is city ordinance. We didn't spell it out specifically. I'm not sure why, but we do include in our comments sometimes just ordinance conditions that we probably shouldn't necessarily point out, we just like to maybe bring those home at times, but they will need to meet the city ordinance requirements. They haven't requested a waiver from any of those requirements to tile the ditches and they will have to meet state code requirements as far as making water accessible to downstream users. De Weerd: So we can just insert the standard staff comments regarding ditches and – Stiles: Sure. Yes, we can. Corrie: I assume you're talking about the -- De Weerd: Yes. I'm sorry. I didn't have it in front of me, so it -- Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 31 of 67 Corrie: Okay. Since this is a Public Hearing is there anyone from the audience that would like to issue testimony in favor of this request? Ma'am? If you'd raise your right hand. Is the testimony you are about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Powell: I do. Corrie: Thank you. Give your name and address, please. Powell: My name is Anna Powell. I'm with B&A Engineers, 5505 West Franklin, and I'm representing the applicant Larry Maurer for the LDS Church. I wanted to clarify the irrigation issue just real fast. It goes -- it kind of comes up like this, crosses over for a tiny bit, and then drops back down into this property and what Mr. Maurer has said he will do for the neighboring property owners is to go ahead and tile it over here on his property and we will just leave one stub, basically, going into ours, but then we take it back there and drop it where it was before, so we basically move it off of our property. De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Powell: And regarding the convenience store that was up here, I note -- the church property is actually right there. So this distance from here to here is 480 feet, approximately. So he's well outside of the 300 foot limit. Other than that, we are -- the conditions of approval we don't have any problem with any of them and staff actually did a good job deciphering everything from the Planning and Zoning hearing, so I'll stand for questions, but -- Corrie: Any questions of Council? Bird: I have none. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I guess is there -- the issue of the buffer on the -- I can't remember which property line, from the 5 to 10, did you have any issue with that? Powell: No. We were able to meet all the -- the revised site plan that you have actually addresses almost all of those site specific concerns that P&Z had. We were able to accommodate all of them. De Weerd: All right. Thank you. Corrie: Okay. Thank you. Powell: Thank you. Corrie: Anyone from the public that would like to issue testimony in favor? Okay. Is there anyone that would like to issue testimony neutral? Yes, sir. Raise your right hand. Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 32 of 67 Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you're about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Cowan: Yes, I do. Corrie: Will you give us your name and address, please. Cowan: Rob Cowan. 1821 East Franklin Road. The only concern I have is my lower property that the irrigation feeds, which is across the creek. If you pull up the map I can show you that. I haven't had a chance to talk with anybody on the property to make sure that that is covered, but right -- actually, if you go to the – yes. Right there. Go a little more to the left. That whole piece of ground right there on this side of the creek -- yes. Right there -- is watered from that fill. It runs down and waters all that. That's the only concern I had. Corrie: Okay. Thank you. Anyone else? Anyone that wants to testify against the project? Hearing none, would you like to address that if you could? Name again, please. Powell: Anna Powell, B&A Engineers. Mr. Mayor, Members of the City Council, this has never been brought to our attention before and I'm assuming that the gentleman said that it was just tail water that irrigates that, because there is quite a bit of slope in this direction. So our property is this one right here. We don't border his there. I'm not sure what to do on the ditch. I guess this issue hasn't come up before, so I'm a little bit stumped as to what to do. The only irrigation facilities that I know of, as I said before, come up here and then drop back in. Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: How is the water -- isn't there a drain ditch that goes -- a collector ditch that goes down through there? Cowan: The water comes up here and then is irrigated down here and the ditch runs all the way along this whole length. Bird: And comes across the road? Cowan: Exactly. Bird: It comes across the road and then heads over -- Cowan: Well, yes. This is the Five Mile Creek. Bird: Yes. Cowan: But there is an irrigation ditch right above the creek that carries water down into this area -- Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 33 of 67 Bird: Then it goes across the creek into yours to irrigate the lower -- the north part of yours? Cowan: Yes. It runs right into here. So my concern is just as long as we will still have water access to that area. That's the only problem I had. (Inaudible discussion by unidentified person.) Bird: You're that little piece there? Cowan: This piece here. Bird: Okay. Cowan: That's where we get our water. I've also got a pipe that comes across the other way if we can't ever get water to it. Corrie: Any further discussions we need to get you on the mike, because we have a stenographer. De Weerd: The point was that the water will be delivered. Bird: Still be delivered. Yes. Corrie: Okay. Any further discussion for Council at this point? De Weerd: I have none. Corrie: Okay. Then I will entertain a motion to close the Public Hearing for Items 12 and 13. De Weerd: So moved. Bird: Second. Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded to close the Public Hearing on Items 12 and 13. De Weerd: So moved. Nary: Second. Corrie: Okay. All those in favor of the motion say aye. All ayes. The Public Hearing is closed. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Corrie: Council, discussion? Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 34 of 67 Bird: I have none. Corrie: I'll entertain a motion on the request for annexation and zoning of AZ 01-019. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Ms. de Weerd. De Weerd: I move that we approve AZ 01-019, request for annexation and zoning of 4.25 acres from RUT to C-N zones for the LDS Church and to ask the attorney to draw up the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision of Order, to include all staff comments and to -- and that's it. Bird: Second. Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded to approve the request for annexation of 4.25 acres and to have the attorney draw up the proper papers. Any further discussion? Hearing none, Mr. Berg. Role Call: Bird, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Nary, aye. Corrie: Okay. All ayes. Motion is carried. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I move that we approve CUP 01-038, request for Conditional Use Permit for the development of an LDS Church in a C-N zone for LDS Church and to ask the attorney to draw up the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision of Order, to include staff comments with the special notation about tiling, drainage, laterals, standard staff comments that are generally in the staff comments. Bird: Second. Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made to approve the Conditional Use Permit for the development of the LDS Church in Item No. 13, have the attorney draw up the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and the Decision of Order, to include staff comments Any further discussion? Hearing none, roll call vote, please. Role Call: Bird, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Nary, aye. Corrie: All ayes. Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 35 of 67 Item 14: Public Hearing: CUP 01-035 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for the construction of a building to be used for wholesale building material distribution in an I-L zone for Intermountain Wood Products by The Banks Group, LLC - south of East Franklin Road and west of South Locust Grove: Corrie: Item No.14 is a Public Hearing request for a Conditional Use Permit for the construction of a building to be used for wholesale building materials distribution in an I- L zone for Intermountain Wood Products by Banks Group, LLC, south of East Franklin Road and west of South Locust Grove. At this time I will open the Public Hearing and staff comments first. Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, the application is for 2 lots within the subdivision. The property was approved for annexation under the terms of the Development Agreement, which required that all uses adjacent to residential use would require a Conditional Use Permit. There was a little bit of discussion last time. It was confusing as to what they were providing adjacent to the residential uses. They do have a 20 foot planting strip that is not always in the best condition adjacent to those residential units. That is the responsibility of the entire subdivision and not individual owners, but we are continually trying to enforce the conditions of that condition of that approval. I did note on the recommendation to City Council that ten copies of the new landscape plan were to be submitted at least ten days prior to this application being placed on the City Council Agenda. I don't have in my files a revised landscape plan. I don't know if any of you do. Bird: No. Stiles: We do need to see that and I would recommend we get that prior to approving this Conditional Use Permit. The property, as I said, is adjacent to rural residential uses. Right here is where Woodbridge got approval for their office building. This is still I believe an empty lot. The Smiths live here and I believe that Mrs. Smith is here tonight. The Wetherells live here and they have submitted a letter regarding this application. The main concerns were, as they always have been, noise and dust and glare from the lights. The lights have been a continual problem. And also the loading area, since it wasn't clear what they were providing. It appears that their loading dock is entirely enclosed. They will be providing paved areas for all of the parking areas and not gravel as shown on the plan. I believe those were the major issues, but they can speak for themselves tonight. But I definitely would like to get that revised plan, landscape plan, so we can determine if it meets the requirement of Development Agreement and also our city ordinance. Their operation is intended to be fully enclosed. We do have an outdoor propane tank shown on this plan. I don't appear to have a scanned version of the actual site plan, unless it was that last one. Sorry about that. They do have a propane tank and a dumpster that will be enclosed on three sides per city ordinance. The building itself is set back 40 feet, as was required in the Development Agreement. Other than that, provided that they do adhere to all the terms of the Development Agreement and hopefully do not become another enforcement issue out there and be good neighbors, we would recommend that the project be approved with all staff and agency conditions. But, again, we would like to see the landscape plan prior to Council's approval. That's all I have. Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 36 of 67 Corrie: Any other staff comments? Discussion from Council? Bird: I have none. Corrie: Is the developer here this evening? Okay. Raise your right hand. Is the testimony you're about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Banks: Yes. Corrie: State your name and address, please. Banks: Ben Banks. 1948 South West Temple, Salt Lake City, Utah. Corrie: Did you get a copy of the -- Banks: I got it today. They called me in Salt Lake City and I was able to send someone over and pick it up at 4:00 o'clock this afternoon. Corrie: Thank you. Proceed. Banks: Can I respond to this document? First of all, let me respond to the reason we don't have the ten landscaping plans. The instructions that were referred to were made available to us last Friday and I simply haven't had time to do it, but we agreed to do it during the Planning and Zoning Meeting, so that's not a problem. As I went through this letter that I received today, the only issue I had is number 18 where it indicates that the vertical clearance of the covered loading area shall be 13 feet, six inches. Can I walk away from this and point something out over here? I'm assuming you're talking about this clearance right here and that -- I don't know where this 13 feet, six inches came from, because it's not in our plans and it won't work. Semis are higher than 13 feet, six inches. Our heights are well within the restrictions of all the zoning requirements, but this has got to be more than 13, six, and I don't know where that -- that was never discussed in the Planning and Zoning Commission meeting. Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: What -- on your drawings what height do you have shown there? I realize 13 foot, six, gets you a pickup in and that would be about it. Banks: It looks to me like it's about 20 feet. Bird: Is 20 feet necessary for a semi? Banks: Yes. That's enough for a semi to pull in and to be unloaded. The total of the top of the -- the highest point of the building, I believe, is 29 feet. Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 37 of 67 Bird: Do you bring semis in that are enclosed or are they open and -- I know you lift it off with -- Bird: Both. Bird: You do bring both in? So you bring in the -- the enclosed ones you don't come over the top, surely. Banks: No. We send it to the bank. Bird: The back. And the ones you're lifting from the sides and stuff, you only have to lift up six, eight inches with a hyster to get it unloaded. I think most of your -- I don't agree with the 13, six. I think that is a little small. But I think 20 foot is too much. I think most of your power lines and stuff are around 14 and a half, 15 feet, and your semis go underneath them all the time. Banks: I guess I'm wondering why the height is an issue at all. Bird: I don't know. Bowers: Mayor Corrie and City Council Members, I'm not sure what this means either. It's got to be -- he's pulled it out of the code for some reason, you know, from the fire code, but I'm not sure, Bob. I sure don't know. Banks: Do you know what I think it may be? It may be the stacking height of material inside the building. As I recall, that's a fire requirement and whatever that is we live by. Bowers: Yes. That would be under the high pile storage or something like that and that's probably around that area, but, man, I -- maybe he's thinking that there would be high pile storage out there, maybe. Banks: No. There is no storage on the exterior of the building at all. Bowers: I can't tell you what he's thinking. I'm sorry. Banks: The only other thing I would point out is that in the previous meeting with the Planning and Zoning Commission I committed to Mrs. Smith that we would make sure the back of the building was covered, as is noted here, and we are fully prepared to do that. That was in an effort to eliminate noise and fumes from going into their property. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: So all of your business activity will go in that enclosed area and not outside of the building? Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 38 of 67 Banks: The only business activity that goes on outside of the warehouse is in that loading area and that's just loading and unloading trucks. Everything else is inside and it's just storage. We do no manufacturing, no -- nothing like that. Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: You do no manufacturing or anything, but do you have -- you're strictly wholesale? You only ship out in semis or receive in semis? Banks: No. Bird: That's what I was going to say. You will have other trucks, delivery trucks, the flatbeds and stuff coming there? Banks: We do deliveries out of this and then we will have will-call customers come in in their pickup trucks. Bird: Shari, can you put back the site -- I'd like to know how they got the building -- the footprint of the foundation of the building and how the semis are going to route in and out of that property. Banks: They pull in and then they back out. They do not go around the building at all. Bird: They pull in and then back out on the road? How many semis will average loading or unloading in a day? Banks: Oh, on a daily basis less than one. Probably three a week. Bird: Three a week? Banks: Something like that. Bird: Forty foot or 27 footers? Banks: Most of them are 40 footers. Bird: So, actually, that drive -- that bay that -- the unloading bay or whatever you want to call it, is closed on the east side? Banks: Yes. It's closed on the residential -- its residential side, as well as the other side. Bird: And all the retail sales and the wholesale sales will be unloaded and loaded out of the -- Banks: That covered loading area. Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 39 of 67 Bird: -- covered loading area, there is no overhead doors to the west entry or anything like that? Banks: No. The only overhead doors come into the loading area, that covered loading area. Bird: Okay. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I guess just a little bit more clarification on your propane tank and your dumpsters. Banks: The propane tank is there only as emergency fuel to run a generator. In case the power in the city goes out, we need to have power to run our computers, and so that propane would be an alternative energy source. And the dumpster is just there to collect garbage. De Weerd: Is that the only location that you can put it? That is right next to the subdivision. Banks: As I recall that's where we were required to put it. De Weerd: By our staff? Banks: Yes. De Weerd: I guess I would have that same question for staff, then, too. The propane and the dumpster, is that the only place they can put that? Stiles: I know we did get a comment from SSD that they wanted to make sure they had access to that. The way they use those trucks, they usually want a front-on access to the dumpster. I think it would be a little hard for them to access it the way it is currently situated, but it has to get approval from them as to how they site that. Banks: Part of the problem was according to the subdivision it has to be out of sight and so we had to put it in a place where it was out of sight, but yet accessible to a truck backing in to pick it up and take it off. De Weerd: Can you place it on the site with an enclosed -- with surrounding walls, then? Well -- yes, but someplace where it does meet the requirement, someplace other than back here by the residential area. Banks: I'll put it anywhere you want it, as along as we have access to it. I'm not sure it's going to be an issue, because it's going to be hit by the three walls that are required to put around them. Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 40 of 67 De Weerd: I know you don't have much room to work with. You're utilizing every square foot you can. Banks: I guess if I could ask the question, what's the concern with where it is? De Weerd: Well, I think it was raised as a concern by the homes that abut that and, you know, since there is only a few residences out there, why you couldn't put it as far away from the residential -- Banks: Is the concern smell? De Weerd: The concern is probably more noise and when they come to pick it up and empty it and those kinds of concerns and, yes, the garbage trucks when they go in reverse does make a lot of noise. So -- and this is a real tight squeeze. Banks: These aren't the same kind of garbage trucks you're used to. These trucks don't go beep beep. These are big containers that they haul the whole container with them. They don't stand and dump it there. They pick it up and they go dump it and bring it back. De Weerd: And how are they going to turn in this short area? Banks: You know, I -- can I look at your map? They back in, pick it up, and drive off. De Weerd: So they will be backing in that -- Banks: They come in the driveway, back up, pick it up, take it, and then bring it back. Bird: You got a 40 yard, 20 yard dumpster? Banks: Right. Bird: Yes. There is no -- Banks: The only thing that goes in this dumpster is scrap wood products that come from packaging from the trucks and the steel banding that holds things together. De Weerd: Well, I'm still -- my comment was more how you get in there and get out. Banks: Well, again, I would be happy to put it anywhere, but you tell me where you want it. If you put it over here it's more problematical to get to. If you put it up here closer, then we violate the covenants of the subdivision, because then it's in sight. I would be happy to put this propane tank over here. That moves it away from this area. Bird: I don't think the fire department would allow that. Banks: Yes. The fire department might not allow that. But there will be a barrier here, so it will be shielded from the subdivision. Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 41 of 67 Bird: How often will you have to dump it? How often will you be dumping that -- is it 30 or 40 yard? Banks: Oh, I suspect -- I'm not sure, but I would suspect it might get dumped every other week, once a week at the most. Bird: And is there backup -- there is no noise. Corrie: Do you have any questions, Mrs. de Weerd? Okay. Go ahead. Banks: That's it. Corrie: That's it. Okay. Any other questions, Council? Bird: I have none. Corrie: Okay. Thank you. Anyone here that would like to issue testimony in favor of the project? Okay. Anyone neutral? Okay. I have two signed up that -- against, Jeri Smith and Laura Anderson. Jeri Smith. Raise your right hand. Is the testimony you're about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Smith: Yes, I do. Corrie: Okay. Give your name and address, please. Smith: Jeri Smith. 325 South Locust Grove, Meridian. First off, Mr. Bird, I'm sorry to have to contest the noise. In fact, I put in a call this afternoon to Mr. Gregory and it's terribly noisy over there when they dump those. In fact, they dumped them this morning and you could not sleep after about a quarter after 6:00 this morning. Bird: Were they the type that's up on the truck and dumped? Smith: At 6:00 o'clock in the morning I didn't go look. I'm sorry. But it's a terrible bang and you can hear them every time they start up and every time they stop at each one of the businesses over there and it's a terrible noise. One thing I heard him discuss was the -- and I'm very concerned about that, because they have opened that road up that goes all the way to Watertower Lane -- Watertower Road and he's talking about backing up a 40 foot truck onto that roadway and I saw five semis go by just tonight out my kitchen window that went down that road and they were not going at a slow pace. That concerns me and there is people that -- there is a lot of cars that are using that and I'd like you to take that into consideration. It is an open road and it will be more so as time goes by when the police station opens up. The diesel fumes I didn't hear you mention, but those are a big concern to us, because when they were under construction on the other building, the diesel fumes were terrible over there. Not only the dust under construction, which we are going to get some of that, I understand that. The prevailing winds coming from the west. The noise and the diesel fumes are going to be really bad and I would like you to take that under consideration. And if he insulates that, what I'd like to ask you if they put a lumber yard in your back door what would they do if the diesel fumes and the noise comes that way? I'd like you to take that under Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 42 of 67 consideration before approval. They did leave it open on the discussion in the letter that he sent earlier, the operation of the building. He said, well, mostly it would be like an 8:00 to 5:00 operation. Am I correct on that? Unless they decided to maybe open sooner to load trucks. You know what loading trucks are and semis backing in there and like he -- I just don't think it's a place for a lumber yard to be when he doesn't have room -- if he's got to go back -- if he's got to back out on a public road, a very narrow road, it's not a five lane highway or anything, but I just don't think there is enough room there for all this loading and unloading and the noise and the diesel fumes and the sound barriers. We already have problems with Schwan's trucks, Schwan's ice cream trucks, that are just west of us. They sit over there and run a great deal of the time and about 11:00 o'clock at night it's nothing for them to start honking their horns and then they are connected to some refrigeration thing and there is a big propane tank over there and as you all know that is a definite fire hazard and you're talking about putting it out into an open -- by an open field and next to residential. Maybe it's not going to be used much, but it's still filled all the time and it's a tank there. And as Shari mentioned, we have problems with Mr. Barnes on the landscaping and this has nothing to do with this, but next door on O'Neal's place, the back of their business offices we have problems with weeds and things and I'd like those things to be taken under consideration. But most of all I think the noise and we are mostly all retired through there, some of us are. The diesel fumes and the lack of space to maneuver their trucks and their equipment, the noise associated with that, and I'd like you to take that into consideration. Thank you. Corrie: Thank you. Are there any comments or questions from staff? Bird: I have none. Corrie: Thank you. Laura Anderson. Do you swear the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Anderson: Yes. Corrie: Okay. Give your name and address, please. Anderson: My name is Laura Anderson and I live at 255 South Locust Grove. I live next to Mrs. Smith and the proposed site is caddy-corner in my backyard and from this -- I'm right across the drainage ditch from the proposed propane tank and that upsets me, seeing as how I can see that directly from my hay loft that is on the direct corner of that and I do have horses and I do stock hay there and I do stock hay in the sheds that are adjacent all along that corner of my property. I have a tool shed, a hay shed, and a lean-to -- an open lean-to and the shed that's enclosed also has -- you know, I have to be aware of that. I'm just afraid that any fumes or anything igniting that, that would cause harm. I was -- during the construction down the street I also experienced the dust and noise from that and the construction trucks going up and down and it's very loud and I do realize that there is going to be some degree of that, but we are concerned. I don't -- I have lived here for a couple years and I don't know anything about, you know, a lumber yard, plus the height of it and so I'm just concerned about it and I'd like to know -- have a little more clarification about if it's impossible to move that propane tank. Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 43 of 67 Corrie: Mr. Bird? Bird: I have nothing. Corrie: Thank you. Anyone else like to issue testimony? Okay. Okay. Hearing none, if you'd like to answer some of these questions, then I have one as well. What size is that propane tank? Banks: Probably 50 -- no. Just -- it's about two and a half feet in diameter. You know, it's about the size of this pulpit. Bird: How many pounds does it hold? Banks: I'm not sure. I was going to say 50, but I would suspect it's more than that. Bird: Why can't you -- excuse me, Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Go ahead. Bird: While we are on the propane. That propane gives me a real concern. I don't want it closer to the building, but, yet, I don't want it to be endangering somebody else. Why - - if it's not that large, we could certainly enclose that completely with a nice block, fire retardant building and completely enclose it where you could get in and fill it up. It just take a hose to fill those tanks up, unless it's a movable tank and if it's that big around I don't think you're going to be moving it. Banks: I don't think it's movable. Bird: I would think that there would be a way to completely enclose that, so that it would be a fire proof building, so the fumes and stuff are not getting out to where they could start a fire and jump into the property or anyplace. Banks: You know, we could look at that. We have them in 11 locations. We have never had a single problem with a propane tank in all the years we have had those and it's just because they don't get used that much. But I don't know what a fire-proof building costs. I mean the fire proof building could cost more than the generating system for auxiliary power. So we may just forget the whole thing if that's the case. Bird: Well, how about diesel? Banks: What about it? Bird: It's not as flammable. How about diesel as a backup? Banks: That's a possibility, I suppose. We also use propane to fuel our forklifts. It's quieter and there is no -- Bird: You're going to be out there -- you're going to be out there filling -- Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 44 of 67 Banks: Well, I'm not sure -- in this location I'm not sure if they use that to fuel the forklifts or if they just get the little five gallon things and have them brought in every week. But either way I mean it's not a big deal. If it's that big of a deal we could just eliminate the auxiliary power source and eliminate the propane tank. It's not -- it's not important to the running of our business. It's just a backup source in case the power goes out. Bird: What do you do at your other locations? How many locations do you -- Banks: We do both. We have 11 locations. Bird: -- fill up off of that tank? Banks: Well, only one location do we fill up off that tank. The others have a propane service that brings in the small bottles that fit on the forklift. So -- but I would be happy to look at enclosing that. I'm not sure -- when you say your fireproof building, are you talking about cement walls and roofs? Bird: Block. And I'm sure there is some other retardant -- I mean you can build up a steel one or something like that and shoot it with the fire retardant stuff. Banks: I would be happy to -- Bird: I mean that's what they do in the big buildings now. Banks: Yes. We could put a steel building around it, just like the warehouse, that would prevent any spread. Let me respond to the other questions and, Mrs. Smith, if I don't get them all you tell me. I think one of your concerns was the noise and garbage early in the morning. We are typically not open at 6:00 in the morning, we open at 8:00, and the garbage is dumped between 8:00 and 5:00 and so I just don't think that's going to be an issue for us. I don't know why they'd come that early. We are not there. So in terms of dust during construction, I can't say anything about that. That's just part of the construction process. Once the construction process is over, then the dust ceases to be a problem. The diesel fumes, I think by enclosing that loading area we mitigate that as much as we possibly can. What were the other concerns? Oh, backing the trucks up. We back trucks out in most of our locations and it has not been a problem and that's one of the reasons we bought this property is because right across the street from our driveway is that other one, so you can back out and turn and go, so you don't have to jackknife onto the existing road that goes in front of our building. Nary: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: There was a letter that we also have from Mr. Bohner for the Wetherells and there is a couple of concerns. Did you see that letter? Banks: I think we had that at the Planning and Zoning Commission. I think one was the noise, wasn't it? Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 45 of 67 Nary: This is a new one. This is the letter dated January 11th from Mr. Bohner. Mr. Wetherell submitted a letter prior. That was at the Planning and Zoning Commission. But this is actually from his counsel. They ask for a couple of things in here, basically. One of them is they asked for the trash enclosure to be located inside the building, that the propane tank be located away from the adjoining residences. They are asking for a change in the condition that the operation will not emit any noise that interferes with the residential life. And they also ask that the remaining property on the back half of this property that's not part of the site plan currently, that it be paved if there are going to be vehicles driving on it and it wouldn't be used for any outside storage. Banks: First of all, there will be no vehicles driving on it and it will not be used for outside storage. Six foot high walls, I'm assuming that would be the case anyway for the garbage enclosure. And, again, I'm willing to move the propane tank. You just tell me where you want it. Nary: What about the noise issues? Banks: Well, I don't know what to tell you. I don't know what standard that is, interfering with any residential life. Nary: Well, it's not much of a standard. Just what kind of noise? I mean -- Banks: You know, I talked to the distribution manager before I came over here and I said the subdivision rules are six to ten and he said that's not a problem, we just need to know that, and I -- you know, we won't be there before 6:00 and we won't be there after 10:00 and very seldom will we be there from 6:00 to 10:00. It's usually -- it's probably going to be more like 8:00 in the morning until 6:00 or 7:00 in the evening when it's busy. When it's not busy they are gone by 5:00 or 5:30. Bird: Mr. Mayor: Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: Will your equipment be running outside of the building at all? Banks: Our trucks have no reason to run outside of the building, no. Bird: I mean your hysters. Banks: The hysters will run outside enough to load a truck, back into the warehouse, back onto the truck. Bird: Now wait a minute. We are going to load and unload in the enclosed deal, so they won't be running outside. Banks: No. Bird: And that is completely enclosed, right? Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 46 of 67 Banks: Right. Bird: That's the same soundproof -- Banks: Well, not completely enclosed. The front is open. Bird: Well, no, you said you had an overhead door there. Banks: No, not -- see, right -- Bird: You're not having an overhead door there? I know where you're talking about. Banks: The front is open to the street. The back is closed to the residential property. Bird: So basically there will be no running around, no -- because hysters have to have the backup noisers, you know, the -- Banks: Actually, our hysters don't have the backup noisers. It's not a law and you can disconnect them, and so we don't use them. They are obnoxious. Bird: Okay. Well, you answered another question I had. I thought that was enclosed and I was going to wonder how you were going to get rid of the diesel fumes -- Banks: Yes. Bird: -- when you were coming in. So you -- this deal in front is where the diesel fumes are going to come out of that -- Banks: But there is no reason for a truck to sit under there and idle. I mean the truck will be parked in there and turned off. We'll load it, it will start, and leave. So it's not like we are sitting on the property idling diesel trucks. A semi pulls in to be unloaded, it's turned off, we unload it, it's turned on and it leaves. So there isn't a lot of idling going on. De Weerd: At the front of the building? Banks: In that loading area. Bird: The truck will actually end up where -- the diesel will be at the front and will be at the back of the building, so that fume has to come all the way -- hit the top and come all the way back out to the outside to go to the west. Banks: That's why we don't want them idling in there for that very reason. Bird: What? Banks: We don't want them idling in there for that very reason. Our people have to work in that environment and so they will just be in there enough to load and then they will go. Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 47 of 67 De Weerd: And you said those trucks come one to -- Banks: Well, no, we have three or four delivery trucks that we load in that area all day long, but, again, they are not going to be running. They pull into the loading area and they turn them off, so you won't hear them in the residential area. Once they turn them on they drive off. Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: Sir, is your delivery trucks, then, 40 foot or 27 foot semis? Banks: No. No. Bird: They are the smaller three ton flatbeds? Banks: That's true. Bird: And very few of them will probably run on diesel or are they all diesel? Banks: They are diesel. Yes. Bird: Okay. We are talking about a different truck than what are the semis and I understood you said maybe three of the semis would be coming in -- Banks: I'm thinking, you know, three to four a week would be maximum, I would think. Bird: And they are basically to unload, not to load? Banks: That's exactly right. There is no reason for them to be running. And our forklifts don't leave the premises. They are not insured to leave the premises. Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: You would be willing to enclose the propane -- Banks: Sure. Bird: -- with some kind of a flame retardant building? Banks: Yes. We could put up a metal building that matched the building that we are building and then spray it will some flame retardant substance. That's fine. Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 48 of 67 Bird: Let me ask you another question. The propane bottles that you use on your hysters, you don't store any of them within the building, extra ones, so that if you run out, you know, your hyster isn't down while you run and get a -- Banks: I can't answer that. In most of our locations the people that bring those will always bring a spare at the same time, so you have got a spare sitting there. And they are the same size as the ones you use in your backyard barbecue. Bird: They are the two and a half pounders that -- Banks: Right. Bird: I have no further questions. Corrie: Any other questions, Council? Banks: Mr. Mayor, I think you had a question. Did you get it answered? Corrie: I did get it answered. Yes. Banks: Okay. Corrie: I was just checking to see if we had any other questions. Making noise, fumes, hours of -- okay. That's all I have. Okay. Any other questions? Okay. Thank you. Banks: May I ask you a question? This is the first time I have been through this process. What happens now? Corrie: We will close the Public Hearing and we will have the decision for you tonight after we discuss it and make a recommendation either for or against it. Banks: And then do we get a notice from the City of Meridian what your decision is or we just wait -- is your verbal notice all that we get? Corrie: I think -- Shari? Stiles: There will be findings prepared. Corrie: Findings, yes. You will have the findings, which discusses yea or nay. You will know tonight and then you will get the findings. Banks: Thank you. Corrie: Thank you. Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 49 of 67 Bird: The one thing I'd like to clear up for Mrs. Smith and I think if you will call Mr. Gregory in the morning you will find out that what you're hearing out there at 6:00 in the morning is the five and three yard dumpsters that they go in and pick up and ask him if they are roll offs out there and this is what he is using is a roll off and they -- I doubt if they pick them up before 9:00 or 10:00 in the morning, the roll offs, and I assure you that they aren't that noisy. But what you're hearing is when they are bringing their trucks in and they do come in early on the commercial routes and they lift them up and they dump them either at the front or the back and then they just turn it down. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: There is still an issue of the landscape map that -- it's hard to act on something without all of the details in front of you, so I don't know if action can be taken tonight anyway. Banks: We have no disagreement with what has been asked. We are happy to comply with that, it's just a matter of submitting the things to you. So there is no disagreement. In fact, I think on closer examination of the plan, you will find that we already are compliant with what you have asked for. Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: Did you ask the applicant if he has the new landscape plan? I'm mean I -- Corrie: Let the record show he's shaking his head no. Bird: How soon could he get them? Corrie: Sorry to keep having you come up and down, but the question is how soon? Banks: Well, I will be back in Salt Lake on Thursday. I will Federal Express your requirements to the architect, he would have to redo them, and then we would get them -- I think it would probably take a week or two. Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: Are you aware of what they expect in the new landscape? Banks: I'm assuming it's the same finding that the Planning and Zoning Commission asked us to do and those findings came back to us -- I forwarded them to the contractor and he said I think they are already drawn up that way, but he said if they are not, it's not a problem. So -- and I think the big issue was -- wasn't it a three foot berm in front? Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 50 of 67 Bird: I don't know. Banks: I think that was the issue. I think the three foot berm in the front is already on the plan. Bird: For some reason they asked for new copies of the landscape plan before the City Council Agenda, so -- De Weerd: And that request was made on November 27th in the staff comments. Banks: Not for today it wasn't. I got it today. De Weerd: The staff comments that you had at Planning and Zoning, it's listed in the staff comments from the Planning and Zoning staff submitted to the Commission and that just transferred forward to the Planning and Zoning findings, so this is not new. It was stated back in November that that would be needed for the City Council meeting. Banks: You know, I didn't get those findings -- they were made available to me last Friday. That's when got my first copy. Bird: You didn't get the staff comments -- Banks: No. Nary: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: The December 6th meeting of the Planning and Zoning Commission, isn't that where that requirement was included? Banks: Right. And we agreed to it. Nary: So I think that would -- I think what Councilwoman de Weerd is saying is that you knew since December 6th you were supposed to have a new landscape plan. It's now -- Banks: Well, I guess the misunderstanding was I knew that we had been asked to make that accommodation and we agreed to do it, but I didn't know that we had a requirement at that point to provide 10 copies of the plan. I thought we had to go through this process first. I didn't know exactly what you needed, so it's my fault. I misunderstood. De Weerd: This is the staff comments that I hope you received November 27th or prior to the Planning and Zoning Commission meeting. Prior to the December 6th meeting. So that was a stated requirement to have the landscape plan. Banks: Do you have a landscape plan? De Weerd: No. Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 51 of 67 Banks: Let me look in my -- De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: While we wait on the applicant for that, Kenny, when you look at the propane tank is there any such structure that you're aware of that can be -- that can cover that and have some form of fire proof capacity to it? Bowers: Mayor Corrie, City Council Members, Councilperson de Weerd, the spray-on stuff is -- yes, is not flammable -- or I mean it's not approved. It just depends on how big the propane tank is, how many gallons it holds. That will tell us how close it can be to a building, how close it can be to property, other people's property. De Weerd: Would you be willing to work with the applicant in looking at such a structure? Bowers: Oh, yes. Exactly. You would be talking mostly probably a pumas block building or a concrete wall or something like that. I'm not sure what you would -- you would have a metal building with spray on. I'm not sure if that's allowed in the code or not. De Weerd: But that's something you can do? Bowers: What we can work with, yes. Banks: I'm getting some advice that if we could just do this is natural gas and avoid this concern that you're having, you know, we are happy to do that. Bird: Be a lot easier. Corrie: It's up to you. Did you fine out about the landscaping? Banks: I don't have it, so I'll have to get it and get it up to you. De Weerd: I'm sorry. Corrie: Okay. Any other questions, Council? Discussion? Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: I don't -- until we see the landscaping plan, I think maybe we can continue this until February 5th and I would make a motion to continue it to February 5th and I certainly like his idea of going to natural gas. De Weerd: Is that a motion? Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 52 of 67 Bird: Continue the Public Hearing until February 5, 2002. De Weerd: I will second that. Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made to continue this Public Hearing until February the 5, 2002, to answer some questions that need to be answered by the applicant. Any further discussion? Bird: I think Mrs. Smith has something she -- Corrie: Oh. Okay. Just one question. I don't want to get a back and forth dialogue here, but come up, go ahead, then. I will allow just one. Smith: Jeri Smith. I'd like to ask the question is it against law to disconnect, as far as OSHA is concerned, the beepers on hysters? Corrie: That's a question I couldn't answer. I don't know whether the attorney can look into it for you and we can -- you ask that question again the 5th and we will have an answer for you. Smith: Okay. Corrie: Mr. Attorney -- Mr. Nichols, if you will kind of look into that. They say you don't have to, but we will ask the question, so I'll let you now already. Nichols: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, I'm not sure it's appropriate for me to even inquire if it's an OSHA regulation or anything else. There is -- I'm not sure it's a city code enforcement issue with regard to that and so -- I mean if the Council wants the answer, I can try to find the answer, but in terms of this discussion and this application for Conditional Use Permit, the applicant is always required to obey all laws, so -- Corrie: Thank you. Okay. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Yes, Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: Just in form of discussion, in addition to the landscape plan, maybe the applicant can come back and talk about if he's going natural gas or propane, but bring back what your decision would be in that regard and perhaps you could get with Mrs. Smith and answer whatever questions that she has that doesn't have anything to do with our side of this application. Corrie: Okay. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion to continue the Public Hearing until 2/5/02 say aye. Opposed no. All ayes. Motion carried. We will continue this Public Hearing on February the 5th, 2002, and get some answers. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 53 of 67 De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: Maybe Kenny can also bring back clarification so we can clean up the Findings on the vertical clearance for the covered area. Corrie: Okay. All right. I'd like permission of Council to take about a five minute intermission break here and then we will come back with Item No. 15. About 9:05. Bird: So moved. (Recess.) RECONVENED AT 9:05. Item 15: FP 01-023 Request for Final Plat approval of 3 building lots and 1 other lot on 20.20 acres in a C-G zone for Sparrowhawk Subdivision by Sitzlar Real Estate Development, LLC - northeast corner of North Nola Road and East Franklin Road: Corrie: Okay. I will reconvene this City Council meeting at 9:05. This Item No. 15 is a request for Final Plat approval of 3 building lots and 1 other lot on 20.20 acres in a C-G for Sparrowhawk Subdivision. This is the northeast corner of North Nola Road and East Franklin Road. Staff comments first. Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, this is the project located on what was formerly Locust Grove Road and Franklin Road. Now this is Nola Road. They did get annexed into the City of Meridian. John Anderson owns this residential house here. This other little out parcel here is the Wooden Nickel, just to give you some idea of what's surrounding it. We did get a letter responding to the Final Plat comment from the applicant today. I hope you all have a copy of that in your -- I'd like to save the discussion on condition 2.2 regarding water delivery -- irrigation water delivery until I cover some of the other issues. The applicant says -- I mean per condition 2.10, landscaping will be maintained by the property owner's association through the CC&R's. As we go through trying to enforce the landscape ordinance as it's currently written were finding little tweaks that we are going to need to make. One of those is the common lot for subdivisions. They may make sense for the residential subdivisions, but for the commercial subdivisions common lots really don't make any sense. One, it takes it off the property tax roles and - - because the assessor's office counts those as no value and the developers can sell them with some value if it's part of their lot. So that's one thing we will be looking at to change. So they have requested that a condition of the Preliminary Plat be changed so that they are not required to include that landscaping within a common lot. They are aware that they are going to have to provide all of the landscaping up front prior to getting occupancy on any portion of this plat. I talked to the applicant and their representative prior to this Public Hearing. On site specific comment number three I would like to add on the perimeter fencing that they -- if they provide the cedar fencing, Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 54 of 67 that that be done with metal posts and not wooden posts, they don't seem to last very long, and they have agreed to that. On number eight regarding the Barker Lateral, we also are not sure why this condition was modified from the original Preliminary Plat conditions. The staff member that wrote that report was not sure where that had come from. So I think that it may be tied to Nampa-Meridian Irrigation District and their required easement and some of the conditions they place on those easements when their ditches are tiled. So I just -- I have asked the applicant to provide approval of the landscape plan that we approve of prior to signature on the Final Plat, so we don't run into issues later that we have got an approved landscape plan, but Nampa-Meridian says they can't plan anything over it. So that was the only clarification I wanted to make on that. They don't need to keep the easement for the Barker Lateral, which we don't know even how big that's going to be, separate from the 35 foot landscape setback, if they can meet those conditions for the landscape plan. On number 9 they only -- they state the only trees they have removed from the site are locust trees. Per our landscape ordinance the developer does not have to mitigate for locust trees. There are some other trees on the site, particularly surrounding the house that is there, and they will mitigate for any trees removed in that area. Other than that, we are in agreement. I'd like Gary Smith to cover the irrigation issue. They have some problems with the delivery of the irrigation water to the site. There is an existing well on site, but they are not sure that kind of flows they can get out of that for the amount of landscaping they are going to have. Just along Franklin Road their 35 foot landscape setback will involve more than two acres of landscaping. So it is a significant area that's going to need to be watered and I believe that the applicant is here to discuss some options regarding the irrigation water. I don't know if -- Gary, do you want to talk about this now or after the applicant has their presentation? Smith: Mr. Mayor and Council Members, my staff member informed me today that there is an intermittent flow of irrigation water available to this property and I guess there is a question as to how it could be served with a pressurized irrigation system utilizing the flow that's available. I don't know all the details of the concerns. Bruce Freckleton did speak with Nampa-Meridian Irrigation District and they are considering some kind of a pump station for this general area down near the Tamura-Berry proposed project, somewhere in that area. Other than that, I don't have a lot of details to give you as far as what could be done with the pressurized irrigation system. The other item that I would like to discuss briefly is the estimated water pressure out there. We are looking at a situation similar to what exists at Woodbridge and the applicant is aware of the estimated pressure from our computer model in that area. The solution to providing more pressure there is to connect it to the high pressure zone again, which is I think several thousand feet to the east. The water line was extended from Eagle Road west across the frontage of the Parkway Plaza project on the southwest corner of that Eagle Road-Franklin Road intersection. That's as far as water extends from the high pressure zone. You can see by the arrow on the screen that that blue where the arrow is right now is as far as the waterline extends from Eagle Road on Franklin. So it would need to extend from that point to the west across the frontage of this project. Those are all the comments I have, Mr. Mayor and Council. Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 55 of 67 Bird: Gary, was that water flow -- if we don't bring that line down, do we have the same situation we have at Woodbridge, it comes back and bites us later? Smith: Well, Councilman Bird, Mr. Mayor and Council, all I can say is we have similar pressures here that we do at Woodbridge, according to what has been stated by Bruce Freckleton, and that's the 50 psi range of pressure, which is what we estimated at Woodbridge and subsequently was measured at close to that range. If we get into elevated structures at this site, then, yes, there will be problems with pressures at the upper elevations and I don't know what's proposed for it, but we are on the edge again of -- Corrie: Any other questions? Bird: I have none. Corrie: Applicant, any comments other than what you made or any answers to any of the questions that have been brought up? Unger: For the record, Bob Unger with Hubble Engineering, representing the applicants. Our address is 701 South Allen Street. Very briefly, as far as the availability of water on the -- to the site, we understand that once every two weeks you get water to the site for irrigation purposes. That's why we do have a -- it is inadequate. We do have an existing well on the site, which we could use to supplement the water that we will have and after further research we will know how much -- you know, how much we are going to -- what kind of situation we are going to be in and if we need to, as recommended by staff, if we need to, we can go to a more drought resistant landscaping, if we are unable to provide enough water for your standard landscaping. I think as far as item number eight, John Anderson has -- with Nampa-Meridian has reviewed the landscape plan. In fact, he supported putting the lateral underneath the landscape strip. But certainly we have no problem getting a letter or getting into sign off on the landscape plan. Just verification there. As far as the water flows, which was item number 11, which Gary just addressed, we were aware of the situation from the very beginning and we are more than willing to work with the Public Works Department on improving the flows and providing the pressures that we are going to need for the project. I guess the only thing that I'd like to look into is if we are -- if we have to put in that mainline down Franklin, possibly -- and this won't be determined until we get into construction involved as part of the project and working with Public Works, we may ask that some sort of latecomer's fee or some sort of reimbursement for that main that's going in there for others who hook onto it in the future. But I think that's something we have to discuss with Public Works Department and see how it all pans out. Other than that, we are fine with the recommendations from staff and ask for your approval this evening. And, by the way, it's nice to see you all. Corrie: No problem, then, with what's proposed? Unger: No. Corrie: Okay. Council, discussion? Questions? Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 56 of 67 De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I guess most of this appears that it can be worked out at staff level and I have no problem with that. They are certainly more qualified than I am, fortunately. Corrie: Any other comments, discussion? Okay. Hearing none, I will entertain a motion for the request for Final Plat approval. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I move we approve FP 01-023, request for Final Plat approval of 3 building lots and 1 other lot on 20.20 acres in a C-G zone for Sparrowhawk Subdivision and ask the attorney to draft Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision of Order and to incorporate all staff comments and the noted changes that were discussed tonight. McCandless: Second. Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded to approve the Final Plat for Sparrowhawk Subdivision with the notations and qualifications of the motion. Any further discussion? Okay. We'll have roll call vote, Mr. Berg. Role Call: Bird, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Nary, aye. Corrie: Okay. All ayes. Motion is carried for Final Plat approval. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 16: FP 01-024 Request for Final Plat approval of 34 building lots on 9.34 acres in an R-4 zone for Vienna Woods Subdivision No. 5 by Skyline Development, Co. - northeast corner of North Locust Grove Road and East McMillan Road: Corrie: Item 16 is a request for Final Plat approval of 34 building lots on 9.34 acres in an R-4 zone for Vienna Woods Subdivision No. 5 by Skyline Development, northeast corner of North Locust Grove and East McMillan Road. Okay. Staff comments on the request. Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, this is for an Ada County subdivision, which the city is providing sewer and water service to. It's just off Locust Grove. South here is the Edinburgh Subdivision that is approved for half of this subdivision, due to the number of -- the capacity in the lift station that has been constructed in the Vienna Woods Subdivision. All of the comments that were prepared were from the Public Works Department. Planning and Zoning Department did not do any reviews or approvals of Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 57 of 67 this subdivision. They do comply with our landscape ordinance. They have already done the landscaping out on Locust Grove Road and they will be able to be brought into the City of Meridian in the future under the R-4 zoning designation. We wish it were in the city limits. It's a very nice subdivision and I will give it to Gary to see if he has any issues. Smith: Mr. Mayor and Council, I don't have any issues. I guess would look forward to hearing from the applicant to see if he has any concerns about the conditions of approval that we have offered. Thank you. Corrie: Thank you, Gary. Name? Johnson: I'm Tucker Johnson. I represent Skyline Development. Our address is 10464 Garverdale Court, Suite 710, in Boise. Corrie: Do you have any problems with any of the requirements? Johnson: Mr. Mayor and Members of the Council, I would just have a few items of maybe clarification. Number one -- and I did talk to -- leave a voice mail of Bruce Freckleton, who apparently was the one who wrote the report, so I called him, but I didn't speak to him personally, but I left a voice mail, but did not hear back. But item number one, site specific, because it is a county plat, technically the sentence might be more accurate to read it, as in previous cases, applicant is to meet all terms of the approved Preliminary Plat and add the word applicable city ordinances. Because it's a county subdivision, if there is a conflict between the two, the county ordinances are the governing ordinances. There is usually not much conflict, but just for the sake of text issues. Item number six talks about designating the rear lot line with arrows. We do not have a problem with that. However, the ones with lot and block numbers in this particular sentence are all lots and blocks in a previous phase. So a cut and paste didn't quite get corrected, so if you want to amend your version to read the way mine would, I will help you amend that. If you strike all the lots and block numbers, it would be Lots 6, 8, 12, 14, 16, 18, 23, and 25 of Block 11. Essentially corner lots or odd lots in those hammerhead cul-de-sacks. If I missed one, staff and I can certainly work on -- we are both in agreement on what that issue relates to. The only other item is number 7. A technicality. The county zoning ordinance does not require anyone to go to the minimum sizes and that particular note has not appeared in any of the previous four planning plats, so we will not do so again. And that is the full sum and extent of my comments. We are in general agreement with the bookkeeping fixes and I would stand for any questions. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: So comment number 7 is not applicable? Johnson: That would be correct. De Weerd: Okay. Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 58 of 67 Corrie: Any other questions? Bird: I have none. Corrie: Okay. Thank you very much. If there are no other questions, any other discussion? Okay. At this point I will entertain a motion for the request for Final Plat, Vienna Woods Subdivision No. 5. Nary: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: I would move the approval of FP 01-024, request for Final Plat approval of 34 building lots on 9.34 acres in an R-4 for Vienna Woods Subdivision No. 5 by Skyline Development Company, with the city attorney to draw up Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law pursuant to the staff report, as well as the additional comments by Mr. Johnson this evening for the conditions. McCandless: Second. Corrie: All right. We have a motion made and seconded to request Final Plat approval and for the attorney to draw up the final Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law with all comments stated on the request. Any further discussion? Hearing none, roll call vote, Mr. Berg. Role Call: Bird, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Nary, aye. Corrie: All ayes, motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 17: FP 01-025 Request for Final Plat approval of 27 building lots and 4 other lots on 9.24 acres in an R-4 zone for Ashford Greens No. 6 by Brighton Corporation - east of Black Cat Road and North of Cherry Lane: Corrie: Item No. 17 is a request for Final Plat approval of 27 building lots and 4 other lots on 9.24 acres in an R-4 zone for Ashford Greens No. 6 by Brighton Corporation, east of Black Cat Road and north of Cherry Lane. Staff? Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, this is for the final phase of the Ashford Greens Subdivision. The clubhouse is located in this area of the parking lot out here. The Eight Mile Lateral runs parallel to the property and it extends through there. This is the length of the tiling that Steiner Corporation has agreed to tile as part of the land swap for the -- with the golf course. You have our comments that are dated January 9, 2002. The applicant has indicated he is in agreement with all of the conditions. However, he is here to clarify item 13 under site specific conditions. And with that we would recommend approval with staff and agency conditions. Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 59 of 67 Corrie: Council, any questions of staff? Okay. Applicant? Wardle: Good evening. My name is John Wardle with Brighton Corporation. My address is 12426 West Explorer Drive. Item number 13 is referencing a well that we have, which is the backup to the pressure irrigation system. I have spoken with our engineer on this and he confirmed for me that it was located or shown incorrectly on the construction drawings. They have measured off -- actually had to relocate the road before, because it was on top of the -- or was shown to be on top of the well. He confirmed for me that it is not in the right of way. We will provide a revised drawing to Public Works for their review showing that. I just wanted to clarify that, based on what my engineer told, it is not in the right of way and we will submit a new plan to Public Works to confirm that. Other than that, we are in agreement with the conditions as written in the staff report. Corrie: Okay. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: Does that mean that the little landscape island in the middle of the street in front of the clubhouse will finally be landscaped? Wardle: It will. And, actually, if you notice on item number 12, it says create a common lot in the middle of West Austin Drive with the existing landscape island. As you know, there is a landscape island there that has not been landscaped at this point. It will be landscaped and it will be delineated on this final plat also. So yes. De Weerd: Okay. Great. Thank you. Corrie: Any other questions? Thank you. Wardle: Thank you very much. Corrie: Further discussion? Hearing none, I'll entertain a motion, then, on the final plat request on Ashford Greens No. 6. McCandless: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. McCandless. McCandless: I move that we approve the request for Final Plat approval of 27 building lots and 4 other lots on 9.24 acres in an R-4 zone for Ashford Greens No. 6 and have the attorney draw up the proper papers, Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law. Corrie: Okay. Is there a second? Nary: Second. Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 60 of 67 Corrie: Motion is made and second to approve the Final Plat and to have the attorney draw up the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law with comments. Any further discussion? Nary: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: Mr. Nichols, is there any need for any proposed wording, since they are going to have to provide a drainage plan prior to Final Plat approval? Is that adequate enough for you? Nichols: Which one are you referring to? Nary: I'm sorry, that 13 would now reflect that they are going to provide a new plan for this well prior to Final Plat approval. I assume that's what we are doing. Nichols: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilman Nary, what my -- the final order that I will prepare would read that the applicant has to submit a revised plat that shows the correct well location outside of the right of way. Nary: Thank you. Corrie: Any further discussion? Okay. Mr. Berg, roll call vote, please. Role Call: Bird, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Nary, aye. Corrie: All ayes. Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 18: FP 01-026 Request for Final Plat approval of 31 building lots and 4 other lots on 13.85 acres in an R-4 zone for Bear Creek Subdivision No. 6 by Bear Creek, LLC - east of Stoddard Road and north of Victory Road: Corrie: Item No. 18 is a request for Final Plat approval of 31 building lots and 4 other lots on 13.85 acres in an R-4 zone for Bear Creek Subdivision No. 6 by Bear Creek, east of Stoddard Road and north of Victory Road. Staff comments. Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: We have a request dated January 15th to table this Final Plat -- Corrie: Oh. Okay. Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 61 of 67 Bird: -- on Bear Creek Subdivision No. 6, which we just received tonight and with that I would make a motion that we table request for the Final Plat for Bear Creek No. 6 to February 5, 2002. De Weerd: Second. Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made to table Item No. 18, request for Final Plat on Bear Creek Subdivision No. 6 to 2/5/2002. Any further discussion? All those in favor of the motion say aye. All ayes. Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 19. Mayor Corrie – Department Report: A. Avest reconsider decision on drive-through: Corrie: The last item on here is I have asked on the department reports that on the Mayor's report, the question has come from the attorney in reference to Avest Limited Partnership versus the City of Meridian. He closes the letter with -- the attorney for Avest regarding Moxie Java drive-thru and I ask that you determine whether or not you want to take up the request that they have made. Mr. Nichols, you want to kind of inform us the gist of that and then we can -- Nichols: Okay. Mr. Mayor, I'm going have to look at Mr. Bird's here, since I didn't have it in my box. Corrie: I'm sorry. Nichols: You will recall that this involves the Moxie Java drive-thru, which the Council denied and, Mr. Penny, on behalf of Avest, has filed a Petition for Judicial Review of the Council's Decision denying that drive-thru and he sent us this letter, which I apologize for not getting to you any sooner, asking that the Council consider its decision and also, you know, as to how it be that done and be done in a Public Hearing in front of the full Council and that he be permitted to address the drive-thru with regard to alternatives to address the Council's concerns. So I should have brought this to you before and I hadn't, but, anyway, I wanted to make sure I got it over to you. So that's the issue, whether you want to take it up again. Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: Even though that I voted for it and stuff, I think that we need to let it die. I think that it's been before us two times, we have heard -- three times. We have heard numerous hours of presentation by the developer. So I, for one, unless they got a new plan and want to come through the procedure again, I believe this is it. I think we basically said that. Corrie: Okay. Any other comments? Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 62 of 67 Nary: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: I wasn't on the Council when this decision was made, but it appears I think I've recently read the initial brief filed by the applicant, so I mean the process is ongoing, it's run its course. I mean I'm usually one to want to look for alternatives, but I think it should die this way and I agree with Mr. Bird we should just let it run its course and deal with it that way. B. ACHD -- Locust Grove Project $1.8 million is for ROW Project: Corrie: Any other comments? You all agree that's what we want to do? Okay. Mr. Nichols, if you will relay that to them, I'd appreciate it. Two other things. One is I got a call from Sherry Huber tonight -- this afternoon late and she had one question -- it won't die, I guess. $1.8 million for right-of-way issues. She wanted to know if that included perhaps even some of the right of way for the intersection at Locust Grove and Overland Road and if we had any objection that as a Council and as far as I knew the Council went only for right of way and that's part of the right of way process, probably be okay, but I -- okay? Bird: As long as it's part of the right of way. C. P & Z Commissioner Appointment to file – Bill Nary’s term and seat: Leslie McDonald Mathes: Corrie: Exactly. And I expect the 1.8 million and pick up the 2.2, you're set for -- okay. One other thing I have. I apologize to the Council. A decision for the Planning and Zoning representative, the one place left, that Keith Borup and I discussed and we made this decision this afternoon and that's why I didn't get it to you earlier, but the decision that we would like to bring forth to the Council is Leslie McDonald Mathes. I believe I have given you the report that she had. We did interview candidates and we picked three that we had felt was real good. They were all good. We thought that possibly she was kind of -- felt that she would be a little better in representing the city as a whole as a mother, parent, owner of a business, and living here for 33 years -- 32, as a matter of fact, and her qualifications were well presented to both of us and my recommendation would be to appoint her in the final -- candidate for Planning and Zoning. We also discussed that we'd like -- the other two were excellent as well. I would like to have seven on that, but I said that maybe the new building we'd have more room for that, but my recommendation would be for -- to approve Leslie McDonald Mathes as the -- filling the final seat for Planning and Zoning at this time and I'd stand for any questions you might have. I apologize again, this was kind of late when we decided to do it, but we did come to that conclusion together. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 63 of 67 De Weerd: I move that we are approve Leslie McDonald Mathes to fill the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission seat and welcome her on board. Bird: Second. Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded to approve the appointment of Leslie McDonald Mathes as the final Planning and Zoning seat to be filled. Any discussion? De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: Will, do you know when this term expires? We might need to include that in our motion. Corrie: I would have -- I have that in my book and I didn't bring it. I think she's for -- it would be four years and then the appointment would be up for -- she's taking Bill's place. Berg: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, I think Bill Nary was filling somebody else's term, so I'm not sure if he has just a couple years left, but I recognize that she's filling Bill Nary's term and we will make sure of that. Corrie: So It's Bill Nary's term. Okay. Any other discussion? All those in favor of the motion say aye. All ayes. Motion carried. I will get that into your boxes what it is. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: Since we've continued Item No.10 regarding the Comp Plan amendment, we are getting some letters from residents out in that area that are misleading. I don't think they are fully aware of what the process is and I don't know if it's appropriate, so I thought I'd bring it up, but we can't talk to these people and kind of let them know what the process is, but would it be appropriate for a staff member to just call them and let them know what this process is, so they are not so fired up when they come to City Council. You know, this one written by Amanda Buchanan or something like that, is -- it's very apparent she doesn't understand the process and I just think that some of these concerns can -- or at least the edge can be taken off with some explanation. Corrie: I think that might be a good idea. However, it's going to be an explosive issue anyway, but if we can diffuse some of it I think it's a good idea. My question would be who would be doing that. Shari, you have so much time, I know, on your hands, but I was kind of after you this morning, so if Council would like to have Shari kind of intervene here, I would think -- yes, Shari, you can talk, since we are giving your time away. Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 64 of 67 Stiles: I guess I'm not sure where this came from. De Weerd: A letter. You know, I -- Stiles: Delivered to you personally or -- De Weerd: No. Anything -- and I guess to clarify, if anything is given to us regarding an application it should be public record, so it should go to the City Clerk, but this was in our box. It was date stamped by the City Clerk's office, so I just -- and Will and I kind of discussed it. Your staff doesn't have time to do it, but procedurally I think it would be helpful for them to know what this process is. I don't mind being called names, but I think the underlying emotion in there is kind of -- Corrie: I don't know, Shari, how you're going to do that, but it might -- unless you individually and -- Stiles: Do we have many more like this or -- Bird: We have three. Corrie: We have the three. De Weerd: Cherie, did you mention you had some others? McCandless: I don't have the letters, but I have knowledge of people going in and putting these things on doors out in the Cherry Lane Subdivision. De Weerd: They are stirring up -- McCandless: They have really got them stirred up, because I happened to be at a meeting last night -- or it wasn't a meeting, it was a party, but -- and everybody was bombarding me with questions. I haven't even seen it yet. I can't talk about it, you know, and that's all I said, but they had this thing that they -- I saw the flier that they are putting out and it's very inflammatory. De Weerd: But it just appears in particular to this letter, if she knew a little bit more about the process and that nothing is a done deal and that, you know, this is a unique opportunity and that's what the public process is all about. So I think there is a way that you can -- yes, you're not going to calm her questions, but at least take the edge off. Stiles: Well, I will write a response and if there is any other comments or letters that you get, if you would forward those to me, so if you want I can pass it by you, Tammy, or if you don't feel comfortable even looking at something like that, I could -- Corrie: I need some attorney advice here. Nichols: Mr. Mayor and Members of the Council, I think if all you're addressing is process -- you know, all you're just doing is describing the process as to how, you know, Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 65 of 67 this -- even if it's in response to specific inquiry or comment and it's a specific chronology of things that have happened, but as long as you're just addressing process and not commenting on the merits for or against a proposal, then it's okay, because -- I mean that's why we want to have this discussion, because it's about process, it's not about substance, about the merits. So I mean that's -- if you want to try to inform the public and let them know what the process is and who makes the final decision and how the final decision is made and those kinds of things and what the Planning and Zoning Commission does and how it's a recommendation and these kind of things, in an attempt to try to better inform the public, then that's fine. I don't think we are crossing any lines for ex-parte -- and I'm assuming that Will is making these kinds of letters available to the applicant or whoever is proposing the deal, so that we have got a chance to read them, too. McCandless: Can she copy us with what she sends out? Nichols: Well, again, as long as it's just a -- as long as it's detailing a process and as long as it's available to everybody, then it's not a problem. Nary: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: At the end of the second paragraph here there is a statement regarding Planning and Zoning and I don't know if it's meant to be addressing to the Commission's action or the staff's report, but that's an avenue I think that, like Mr. Nichols is talking about, to focus on to be explained it's by process, because she's saying something about the Planning and Zoning and that's her perception -- De Weerd: I'm sure it was the people on there. Nary: It could have been. It certainly could have been. But at least it's an avenue to deal with the process itself and to allow them to understand how it works. At least there is an avenue to do that in this letter, so -- Stiles: And I'll ask Charles Crane if he will include this as one of -- as part of the website, response from Planning and Zoning Department or whatever. But I can't respond to everything that's on the website. Corrie: I don't think we expect you to. De Weerd: No. Corrie: Just procedural things that you can -- De Weerd: Just the process and, you know, that it's fair and offers a public forum and that no decisions are made, you know, prior to an application being heard or -- there must be a way that you can at least by giving them information help at least diffuse some of it. Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 66 of 67 Stiles: Okay. Well, if you wouldn't mind, I'd like to run it past somebody in -- Corrie: You can run it past the attorney. Bird: Just run it past the attorney so that we are not getting our neck stuck out. Stiles: Because I think I might have to get into some specifics, at least with this person. Some kind of specifics. Bird: And then we are starting to -- then we are starting to look like we are making -- we have already made up our minds and I personally don't think you're going to diffuse anything. Corrie: I don't either. Bird: I think these people -- I think we are wasting our time, to be truthful. I think they have got some rebel rousers out there that's really stirring it up and I'm getting off base now, I shouldn't be saying this, but I don't think it's going to help us a bit. I think they are going to come in here fired up and ready to go. Nichols: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Yes, Mr. Nichols. Nichols: Mayor, Members of the Council, I think you can do it in a way that informs them. Now what they choose to do with that information is completely up to them. I also think that, although you're going to say in there no final decision is made, you don't want to trumpet that too loudly, because then it's, you know, the -- what's Shakespeare's line, me thinks thou dost protest too loudly and so, you know, we will just -- Shari can do it and I can review it, and we can have some input. We can do a process thing, give it to them, and then, again, if they choose to believe it, fine, but if they choose not to believe what's in this letter with regard to process, we can't change that. All we can do is try to provide them better information from which they can make decisions as to how they are going to act and what they are going to do. Stiles: Okay. Thanks. Corrie: One thing before we close. If anybody would like any Girl Scout cookies, please see me. Bird: Mr. Mayor, I'd like to bring up one thing. Corrie: Yes. Bird: And I -- we had a long time citizen of Meridian, dedicated city employee for 31 years, I believe? Right, Kenny? Bowers: 38. Meridian City Council Meeting January 15, 2002 Page 67 of 67 Bird: How much? Bowers: 38. Bird: 38 years. Fire chief of Meridian. Roger Welker passed away Sunday. His funeral is Thursday at 11:00 a.m. at the LDS church, if anybody would like to attend. His daughter is Vickie Welker, the one that we have had come through here. I, as an MAA member, Meridian Athletic Association member and part of the race track, was doubly helped by the man, because him and Hoot Gibson, who owned the Ford dealership up there, always supplied us with trucks and made sure our out-of-town race car guys come in, always had a shop open to them, and we are just -- their parking lot was always available for us. So the citizens lost an awful good Meridianite. Corrie: I've asked Keith also if he would represent the City Council if you can't be there. McCandless: I was wondering which LDS church? Bird: The one there on Second and Cherry Lane. McCandless: Okay. Corrie: Okay. Any other things? Okay. I'll entertain a motion that we adjourn. De Weerd: So move. McCandless: Second. Corrie: Motion made and second. All in favor say aye. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Corrie: Adjourned at five minutes to 10:00. MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:55 P.M. (TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) APPROVED ___________________________ _____|_____|_____ ROBERT CORRIE, MAYOR DATE APPROVED _______________________________ WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., CITY CLERK