HomeMy WebLinkAbout2002 01-08Meridian City Council Workshop January 8, 2002
The regularly scheduled workshop of the Meridian City Council was called to order at
6:30 P.M. on Tuesday January 8, 2002 by President Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Mayor Robert Corrie, Keith Bird, Tammy de Weerd, Cherie
McCandless, and Bill Nary.
Others Present: Gary Smith, Mike Worley, Bill Nichols, Stacy Kilchenmann, and Dave
Bowman.
Roll Call: __X___Tammy deWeerd __X____ Cherie McCandless
_X_____ Bill Nary __X____ Keith Bird
__X____ Mayor Robert Corrie
Issue #1 Discussion / Update on projects for 2002 affecting Meridian by Layne
Dodson of Idaho Power Company
De Weerd: -- order. Note that the Mayor and all Council Members are present. I did
want to take a moment on your agenda, as Cherie and I’s first attempt. Bill Nary had
mentioned that perhaps we want to have issue No. 12 moved before 11 so that any staff
members can go home if they’re not involved. We can discuss any future topics first.
Also, Gary Smith talked to me. He had something to add under issue No. 6; the Ten
Mile interchange sewer study. He’ll give an update on that. With that we’ll start with
issue No. 1, Layne Dodson with Idaho Power Company. Thank you.
Dodson: I’m going to try to keep issue No. 1 fairly brief. Issue No. 1, trying to keep up
with the Meridian growth with powerlines and power infrastructure has been a
challenge. I wanted to give you a few minutes of an update on what's planned for 2002
and in the near future, as far as power projects. The number one project that will occur
next year is what we’re going to refer to as our Stoddard Substation. It's over on
Stoddard Road, near the intersection of Overland and Stoddard. We got a Conditional
Use Permit from Ada County to construct that but it's right there across from Bear
Creek. We’ve had the sign up, and I have had several calls from folks out there. So,
we’ve had good response from putting that sign up there. People are curious on where
it's located and how the powerlines are going to be going and that type of thing. That
substation is set to go in this year. It is on that intersection --. I wanted to give you an
idea of what it was going to look like once it's all completed. This is the landscape plan.
That’s usually the first thing that people want –
De Weerd: Will, can you bring that --? Well, I know but if he can put it here then anyone
has an interest in it.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
De Weerd: I can hold it if you want.
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 2
Dodson: That’s the landscaping plan and that kind of gives you an idea the change in
the philosophy that the power company has taken upon itself on trying to make these a
little more acceptable to the neighbors. That site there is about seven acres, roughly
that you see, the developed part of that. The part behind the fence is roughly two acres.
As you can see, there’s an awful lot of buffered area there and a lot of trees and
landscaping there to camouflage that. Set back off of Stoddard Road almost 200 feet.
We’re set back off of Overland Road about 600. So, its back off. Once that landscaping
has a chance to mature, that station is virtually going to be hidden from view from the
road.
De Weerd: Which plan were you on?
Dodson: Right there where that station, the fenced area there is. That is south of
Overland Road about 600 feet. There's a drain that cuts.
Bird: This is North.
Dodson: No, Stoddard is on the other side.
Bird: Oh, Stoddard’s --?
Dodson: This is Stoddard right here.
Bird: Okay.
Dodson: Overland Road would be up here.
De Weerd: Oh, okay.
Dodson: There's a drain that cuts that piece of property in half. We’re developing
everything on the south side.
McCandless: So, that’s north of Overland?
Dodson: South.
Bird: South of Overland.
McCandless: South of Overland?
Dodson: Overland Road would be --.
Bird: And west of Stoddard.
Dodson: Yes.
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 3
De Weerd: So, Bear Creek is across the street?
Dodson: Bear Creek is across the road.
McCandless: Okay.
Dodson: That facility there would provide power to the south side of the freeway
virtually from Cloverdale Road over to approximately Ten Mile and then south. Initially it
will be south of Amity, but eventually, when an ultimate build out occurs it will be out
towards Amity. That’s going to be a significant provider for development on the south
side of the interstate. That’s where the station location is. The transmission lines that
will supply that station, they originate over at the corner of Overland and Cloverdale.
They’ll come down Overland Road to the west side of this 20 acre piece that we
purchased and then up that west side into the station. The poles will be steel poles
painted Hazleton Grey. They will be about 70 to 80 feet high in line of --. The poles as
you cross over Meridian Road will be a little higher just to get over all the luminaries,
traffic signals and that type of thing that are in that area. We’re starting to get the right-
of-way easements on that. We’re working with Ada County Highway District in order to
meet up with their expansion. So, we’re in concert with them. But we’re ahead of them
in getting right-of-way. So, we’re out there ahead of ACHD in securing right-of-way. We
are starting that process this month. If you hear some folks that --. There will be people
getting contacted on the right-of-way issues. We’ve had the public meetings out there.
So, I think everybody along the line should know that we’re coming. This will have a
little bit of distribution. We’ll have a couple of feeders out of that, that will be dove along
Overland Road also. As I say, that’s going to be the major power source for the area
south of the freeway. We are going to be upgrading both the Black Cat substation, west
of Franklin there. We’re also going to be upgrading the Meridian substation. So, we’re
going to get additional capacity and additional feeders out of both of those this coming
year. There will be some line construction along Franklin Road this summer that will
probably impede traffic a little bit. It shouldn’t be too bad. There will be some overhead
lines installed along that corridor there. So, there will some impact there. We have been
working with the planning group on the Northwest Meridian Task Force. We are aware
of those plans that are going in over there. As luck would have it, the Ten Mile
substation site that we’ve already gotten approved with Ada County --. It's just north of
the intersection of Ustick and Ten Mile there by the drain. That site there, is really
centrally located for that development. That would provide a good source of power for
that development as it occurs. That site really is not scheduled to be developed, based
on our projections, until probably 2005 or later. All bets will be off if that took off real
fast. At least that site is permitted by Ada County, the transmission lines are right there.
So, it will be a fairly low cost, not a lot of planning involved on getting that station up and
going. That’s a good spot for that station.
De Weerd: Is that right next to our sewer treatment plant?
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 4
Dodson: That site is --. There’s already been some improvements there. The fence is
there. The ground has been leveled. So, it's pretty evident where that station is going.
(inaudible). There is a sign out there. We’ve had a few calls on that but not very many.
Not like Stoddard. Stoddard out here, when we put the sign up, we’ve had a number of
calls from people in Bear Creek that are (inaudible). So far everybody has been pretty
understood. I think when we show them this too, that they realize it's going to be a
pretty low impact.
De Weerd: Oh, yes.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Dodson: Now, the other big project that’s coming --. It's not going to be close to
downtown but it will be effected. McMillan Road in the near future, we are planning a
230 KV 230 thousand-volt line from our Locust Grove substation to Caldwell. That will
be a main gridline. We are going to go before Ada County for a Conditional Use Permit
this year. That will go, our proposed route, that came out is from Locust Grove
substation there at Locust Grove and McMillan, straight west through Ada County to
CanAda Road on McMillan Road, north to 20/26. Then towards where the proposed
Garnet generation facility would be. Eventually it will tie into the Caldwell substation on
the north side of Caldwell. That’s the final piece that will provide a 230 KV loop around
the metro area. That’s supplying the major bulk wholesale power movement around the
Cities, I should say. That’s going to be starting, we’re looking at a 2004 completion date
on that, June 2004. Those are the major projects. I think we’re in pretty good shape with
the electric infrastructure for the City of Meridian. We are responding to the Planning
and Zoning mailings that come out. If we don’t respond, we are reviewing everything
that they send to us, all the subdivisions, the whole works. We are reviewing everything.
A non-response really means that we do not have any concerns but we are reviewing
them. There are a few responses that we have to send out. Most of them will explain
that there’s limited capacity whether we need to do distribution work out there. Mainly
what we’re doing is asking those developers to contact Idaho Power and work with the
facilities teams that are responsible for providing those facilities out there. There’s really
no area around here that we absolutely have to say no to but there area some areas
that we have some concerns. That’s really what our red flags are about. There’s
(inaudible) on this and lets get the up front planning ad get square away on the
capacity. The last thing I’m just going to kind of share with you just as an overall plan.
Do you want me to put that up there also?
De Weerd: Yes.
Dodson: You can see where we’ve got the south Meridian station and we also show that
there’s a double green line there along Overland. Virtually what that represents is an in
and an out transmission feed. So, they’re eventually going to, when ultimate build out
occurs at that station, we’ll have a transmission line going in the south Meridian and out
of the south Meridian. That gives us a little bit more of a reliability. You can serve it from
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 5
two different ways. You’ll also see a double line down there on amity, right there. That’s
in the area where we would envision a new substation eventually. We don’t have any
property secured but, conceptually that’s about where we need to next station on that
southeast side of Meridian. Just mirror that and go onto the other side, somewhere over
there, Amity, Ten Mile, Amity Linder area. That’s probably the next logical space for a
substation out there. As that area starts to develop and fill in with the schools and the
subdivisions, industrial, commercial loads that are specked out there, this is kind of how
we would see our development occur out there. Those business parks that are there at
Eagle Road and Overland, in that area, depending on what goes in there --. I mean if
there’s a large manufacturer or a large user, like an internet hotel or something like that,
we may end up with another substation or facility go in that area. Based on, what we’re
seeing, that’s probably the next situation out there.
De Weerd: Well, with our Comprehensive Plan update, you provided this to be
implemented into our plan? Okay.
Dodson: We haven't secured any properties out there but that’s kind of the areas we will
be looking.
De Weerd: You’d better hurry. Council, do you have any questions?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Mayor?
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
De Weerd: Thank you Layne. That’s very helpful.
Dodson: Anytime, you have a request for information, like with economic development,
business clients, things like that, power questions, feel free to give us a call. (inaudible)
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you very much.
Dodson: Thanks for your time.
Issue #2 Discussion with the Meridian School District Representatives
De Weerd: Okay, discussion with the Meridian School District, Christine Donnell,
superintendent is here. Thanks for coming Christine.
Donnell: Yes. Good evening Mr. Mayor and Council people.
De Weerd: Members.
Donnell: Members, thank you.
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 6
Bird: Council Members.
Donnell: Thank you. Congratulations on president and vice-president. I read that in the
paper that you got that all taken care of. The only thing that I have this evening is to
request more time at some future meeting to visit with you About the projections that
we’re making in terms of the growth in the north Meridian planning are. Wendell has
been working on what this will look like in terms of the number of students depending
on the density that approved and how many schools that will require in each one of
those square miles. We understand that the North Meridian Planning Association,
actually the task force is looking at 10 miles, I mean 10 square miles rather than eight.
Is that correct?
De Weerd: I thought it was 12.
Bird: It's actually 12.
Donnell: Well, that (inaudible) a little bit more. So, as we look at that, and I think I told
you the last time we met that we’re looking at about a 235 million-dollar investment over
time, depending on density. As we figured it, we’ll have something like $25 million a
square mile if in fact the density is as we projected. What we would like to do is come
back when it's convenient for you and go over those numbers with you just as we see
them in terms of the projections that we’re making with the numbers to facilities.
De Weerd: Mayor Corrie.
Corrie: Madam Chairman, Madam President, excuse me. How much time do you think
you’re going to need?
Donnell: About 20 minutes. Then as much more as you would like in terms of the
questions that you might ask. We can do it in 10 minutes at a time or whatever works
best for you. I think we would like about 20 minutes to go over this.
De Weerd: Would this be helpful if our Planning and Zoning Commission could be here
as well?
Donnell: Might be very helpful.
Corrie: Madam President, I think we should do it as soon as we can because
(inaudible).
De Weerd: Well, I suppose that, Mayor, if it's okay with you the 22nd
on our fourth
Tuesday is a good time to do it.
McCandless: Could we have a 5:30?
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 7
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
McCandless: Or even 6:00.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Bird: Mayor won’t be here.
Corrie: That’s okay.
Bird: Mayor won’t be here. You’ll be sitting here Tammy. Yes, if you want it.
De Weerd: What does the agenda look like at this point? Do you have any idea?
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
McCandless: That’s why I said --.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
McCandless: That’s why I suggested coming in maybe a half-hour early. What?
Bird: We could come in early.
De Weerd: Why don’t we look at what the agenda looks like and then --.
Donnell: We would be happy to come at 5:30, 6:00. Whatever is –
De Weerd: So, we’ll have –
Donnell: Shall I pencil the 22nd
in?
De Weerd: Yes.
Bird: Yes.
De Weerd: If that’s okay with the Mayor.
Corrie: That’s fine. I think it should be fairly quickly.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Nichols: Madam President.
De Weerd: Yes?
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 8
Nichols: (inaudible) knows, the WGI (inaudible) have a much lower density than the one
that (inaudible).
Donnell: In fact, we’re just showing I think the red sheet. He’s working on just three
different densities. It helps us. Great.
De Weerd: Great. Thank you.
Nary: Madam President were you going to invite the Planning and Zoning commission
to at least attend if they wanted to?
De Weerd: Yes.
Donnell: Great. Thank you very much. Thanks for your time.
De Weerd: Thank you Christine.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
De Weerd: Do you want a sandwich on your way out?
Issue #3 Update of Meridian Development Corporation by Jim Johnson
De Weerd: Okay, No. 3, update on the Meridian Development Cooperation. Jim
Johnson, the chair is here to enlighten us as to what the MDC is doing.
Johnson: Thank you.
De Weerd: My pleasure.
Johnson: This will probably be your shortest presentation tonight. Just to give you a
brief update. We are kind of kicking things into high gear. We met twice in the month of
December. We’ll meet twice this month, in January. We’re well on our way to getting
some things accomplished. We meet tomorrow morning. At that meeting we will
probably select (inaudible). We have proposals from two firms. We will be talking about
that. We really started working on a plan already. We kind of enjoy --. We’re ahead of
the curve on that a bit because of the work the Treasure Valley Futures has done. We
intend to work from that plan. (inaudible). That gives us a real good start on that
program.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Johnson: No, he’s here for another item.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 9
Johnson: So, we know that we’re setting some time lines as to when we can get a plan
established. June 1 is the very earliest. September 1 is probably outside (inaudible).
The main reason that I’m here is because we’ve discovered lately in interviews in
talking with other people who have been through this process, particularly the attorneys
that have both been through the process, that there is a considerable time commitment
on the part of City staff with the successes that have been enjoyed (inaudible). That
was kind of, not a shock to us, but it was something that we probably didn’t plan for
properly. In some instances, the Planning and Zoning administrator has actually been
the head of the Urban Renewal Agency so to speak. (inaudible). There have been
instances within the State of Idaho where the Urban Renewal Agency has actually paid
part of someone’s salary down the road, staff person. I’m here just to open your eyes if
your eyes aren’t already open about the possibility of time commitments by City staff.
Myself and one of the committee members have already been proactive in that regard.
We met with Shari Stiles, who is the Planning and Zoning administrator, to talk to her
specifically about the possibility of her department being impacted by Urban Renewal
business. Her response was natural which is, where’s the funding, budgetary process
and stuff that you would expect. What we want to do is keep as many people informed
as possible with what we’re doing and how we’re doing it and what our time frame is.
That’s about all the information I have on that with respect to staff commitment. I don’t
have any specifics. I think it's something that we should be aware of as we go through
the process. Mr. Bill Nichols is working on our bylaws already. He said he would have a
draft of the bylaws for our January 23rd
meeting, which is also (inaudible). We’re up and
running. We almost have out bylaws in place. We’ll probably have them in place by the
end of the month, or early February and working towards the plan and setting some
definite goals. We’re setting goals and time frames with respect to getting things done.
Now that we are a formal board and we have the sanctions to do that, the legal
sanctions to do that, we will be fairly aggressive in our approach. That’s really where we
are. That’s the update. Any questions?
De Weerd: Council, any concerns or further clarification on the staff time or comments?
Mayor?
Corrie: I think (inaudible) more time (inaudible). We can set that up.
Johnson: We felt that you should know about that. You know it's on the horizon. It
probably will come to fruition and we’ll need some staff help. We need to be thinking
about how we’re going to work that in terms of money (inaudible). Thank you very
much.
De Weerd: Thank you.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Issue #4 Discussion on November’s Finance Report by Stacy Kilchenmann
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 10
De Weerd: Okay. Issue No. 4, discussion of November’s finance report. I guess I can
practice this. Stacy was ill at our last meeting so there were some questions that
probably needed less formal discussion than at a formal meeting. So, I asked Stacy to
be here. Then asked her to kind of look at perhaps some, I don’t know if she has
forecasts of how the sales tax or if revenue sharing or interests earned are going to
impact our revenue streams in the projection. Then talk about the workmen’s comp and
Blue Cross deductible as well as the budget amendments. The sheet that we got in our
budget report.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
De Weerd: Stacy (inaudible).
Kilchenmann: I’ll just kind of briefly go over what I would have done if I would have been
here. For the financial reports themselves, the notable things are you’ll notice if you look
at the utilities and MUBS. There are some big write offs. What happened (inaudible)
some of that 24,000 in the process of preparing for the audit this year, we were talking
about what would be uncollectible. So, Leslie went clear through her accounts and
wrote off about $24,000.00 of items that were not collectible and that’s something that
apparently has not done in the past. That was kind of an accumulation. That’s not going
to be a recurring thing. I also discovered that we don’t have an allowance for (inaudible)
which is a balance sheet account that we typically have. Then every year, you would
just make routine additions to that, through the income savings side. So, we took --.
Since we hadn’t been writing things off, we took the left over balance from the end of
this year and the audit we really had to move that into the allowance account. So, in the
future we will just have a routine addition to that allowance account. Probably a couple
thousand dollars a year. That’s about it. The only item that really, on the expenditure
side, probably bear watching are the utility costs, which utilities seem to be running
higher than even the increase (inaudible) about 60 percent. We only have two months
so it's hard you know I don’t want to make the conclusion and just continue. Those were
specifically, what they really would impact would be the plans because those are
(inaudible). The overtime report, notice I put a corrected one in there? I screwed up. So,
overtime --. I had for the current month I have the budget (inaudible). That puts the
police, they’re about where their budget is. We still have some overage required. I think
with overtime, one thing the City doesn’t have any historical data on that. I don’t think
it's ever been tracked. Sort of my gut feeling from working a lot, in prior places with
overtime, is that we need, when we budget new positions, we need to also; especially
with fire we probably need to be aware that we need to budget overtime for this
position. What has happened with fire, I mean, Ron’s feeling was, oh add new positions
and our overtime will go down. I don’t know if that’s necessarily true. We need to
(inaudible) new contract. Also, Kenny had three people on disability. He said he had a
couple of people on funeral leave. He doesn’t feel like his experience in those first two
months would necessarily be replicated in the rest of the year. I guess we just need to
develop history and I’ll check to see what happens. Both of them for their overall
personnel budgets are both at budget because they both have some salary savings
because of vacant positions and so forth. On the interest side, if you look at your graph,
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 11
you can just see the money market interest nose-diving. So, we’ll pay them to hold our
money. It's still higher on the investment, or the investment agency side because over a
quarter of our balance of our investments are in CDs with higher interest rates. Those
CDs will be maturing, like most of them, about a quarter of a million mature before
March. So, those high rates that we had, that seven and nine percent. That’s really
going to drop down Buffington’s yield. He said, in talking to him, he said the stock
market is staring to rebound. He thinks this summer that those interest rates will start
(inaudible). One of the new statements that I added was the general fund revenue
budget to actual. It's not very representative yet because we get most of that money on
a quarterly basis. At least we have the format here. Tammy had asked about the sales
tax projection, which would be our state revenue sharing. We got our report from the
fourth quarter. Actually, for the state sales tax, is at the projection, which disappoints
me. The reason is because of the zero percent interest rate on car financing. They
usually give you what you got and then they give a projection. Well, our report on it says
no projection. We’re not doing any projection. That’s probably not good news.
(inaudible). The good news however is that it's only ten percent of our budget. That’s
the good news.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Kilchenmann: Oh, the potential budget amendments. That one, what we started doing -.
What we found last year was that, I think traditionally doing the amendments has been
sort of left to the last hour so to speak. Some things probably got neglected. This year
we’ve just --. These are not set in stone amendments. These are just potential items
that could or could not be issues that we need to take care of. We separated them. We
have enterprise fund and general fund. So, for the enterprise fund, a position was just
completely missing from the form that we did when we did the base budget that got
missed. In the 40,000, that is something that we definitely have to do. That will be a
transfer from enterprise to general fund for the $40,000.00. The phone expense for the
wastewater treatment plant, when they added several divisions and we broke our
operation up into divisions, the phone expense was not added (inaudible). That’s a
probable item that we need to do. For the general fund, we have a small amount for the
annual, for the three percent performance increase that we just, that was our fault. We
just budgeted in as if they were on the STEP program. That may or (inaudible). The
14,000 is for increasing --. Apparently in the contract at the end of the contract
negotiation, they decided to increase the pay for the intro fire fighters to fire fighter one.
In the grid that we were given for the fire fighters that just wasn’t on (inaudible). That
total amount may or may not have to be done. The police revenue, we did not know that
they had a grant. So, basically we need to increase revenue in the account for that
expenditure. Yet, they still have their 96 COPS grant. The 40,000 again that’s the
enterprise switch. For the police station, that carry forward amount, the road which, for
the 152,000 which actually came in at 144,000 had not been invoiced and completed.
So, we just left --. That amount was suppose to be done at the end of the year and it
wasn’t. (inaudible), we’re just being invoiced. So, we need to bring that back into the
current budget. That actually has us a little (inaudible).
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 12
De Weerd: So, this will be a carry forward?
Kilchenmann: Yes. Billing amounts (inaudible). Items under consideration, those are just
things that have been talked about, kind of thrown around the table but we don’t want to
miss. So, we’re putting them --. We’ll just keep just adding to that list so that you’re all
aware of it. The wastewater treatment plant manual, on the computer. I’m not even sure
where that came from or how seriously that’s being considered. Then we talked about, I
think we wanted to transfer the recycle revenue just in the parks department. So, that
actually has no (inaudible) so that we could make sure that we could --. Readers of the
financial statements would understand that, that revenue would just be spent on
recycling type items.
De Weerd: That means the playground equipment?
Kilchenmann: Yes. The codification expense was not budgeted for in 2002, but so far
we’ve spent $6300.00. That probably is a – depending on how the rest of the clerk’s
budget goes, that could be one that we need to take care of. That’s what this list is.
We’ll just keep doing this every month. We probably need to schedule our audit,
(inaudible).
Bird: (inaudible). Yes.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Kilchenmann: We’re just in the final --. It's done. We’re just in the presentation,
negotiation stage. Kevin will be out Thursday and we’ll finish it. There’s some issues
with (inaudible) which changes the way we show revenue from (inaudible) which has no
bottom line effect but (inaudible).
Bird: (inaudible)
Kilchenmann: Yes. I’ll check with him to make sure that that fits into his schedule.
Bird: That or (inaudible).
Kilchenmann: We wanted allow some time to if you want to talk to the guy. Kevin said
that (inaudible) which is going to significant change our financial statement. (inaudible).
De Weerd: That’s a statement (inaudible)?
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Bird: It's a federal level.
Kilchenmann: I think it will be good. I think it really has some positive.
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 13
Bird: It is as we need, as we are now categorized (inaudible).
Kilchenmann: Yes. It goes by, it's called statements of activities. It does require --. It's
going to require more audit time and probably more time to actually implement it
because our whole general ledger structure is going to change. I’m hoping that some of
the cost, we did quite a bit more of the audit ourselves this year. (inaudible). We did a
lot more of the prep work. We’re hoping to do even more, like the compiling of that final
audit report and kind of maybe offset some of the costs that they’re going to need to do
the audit. Kevin (inaudible).
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Bird: Thank you.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
De Weerd: Your report gets more comprehensive every time.
Kilchenmann: Be sure to tell me if there’s anything that you want to see. If you have any
good ideas.
Nary: Thank you.
Issue #5 Discussion of Storey Park Master Redesign Plan Phase 1 and Restroom
Project by Tom Kuntz
De Weerd: Tom, discussion of Storey Park master redesign plan phase 1 and restroom
project. Is that Storey Park?
Kuntz: No.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Kuntz: These came out Sunday. I just wanted all the Council Members --.
De Weerd: I assume there’s no new fees in here, right?
Kuntz: In your packet is a three-page memo. I won’t take a lot of your time tonight. So,
I’ll hit the high points starting with No. 5 on your agenda, Storey Park redesign update.
That information, there’s a visual on attachment D which is about half way through the
packet. As well as attachment E. attachment D just shows the information that we
learned from our surveyors as far as the land that is leased to WARD which is primarily
the parking lot in front of their pool facility. There’s some information contained in my
memo regarding the board meeting that I went to and the discussions that we had.
Attachment E is where I would like to focus. With so many questions being raised about
loss of parking spots, we had a brainstorming session and tried to come up and see if
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 14
there were any other options. As you see attachment E has a possible new [parking
area that would be an addition to Franklin Road. We had a meeting with Boise City park
planners last week to see if the two options that we have on the table, this attachment E
and then the original design which is on attachment D. it's just the area in front of the
chamber building in phase one. Which of those two they would recommend and what
were the pros and cons. After about an hour discussion the consensus was that what
we have planned on attachment D is the preferential parking area for no other reasons
but --. So, at this point our plan is to move ahead with phase one Storey Park
renovation as early as the middle of next month. We’ll start tearing out the road
between First Avenue and the chamber. The playground equipment is already here and
we’ll start installing that at about a mid point in where that road is being taken out. Then
we’ll work with the chamber expansion as far as the reconfiguration of that parking lot to
work around their time frame so that we’re not in their way. I stand for any questions on
that.
De Weerd: Council?
Nary: Madam President.
De Weerd: Yes?
Nary: Tom, on D maybe because it's copied so dark, but I can only count 26 spaces. Is
that correct?
Kuntz: What will be in phase one?
Nary: Correct. It looks like they’re all on essentially the west side of this road that comes
off Franklin Road. It says three spaces, 13 spaces, 10 spaces.
Kuntz: Correct. Those numbers are actually incorrect in that this was one of our initial
runs at this. We sized it down so we didn’t have to take any large trees out. The total
number of spaces that we’ll have in front of the chamber is 19.
Nary: Then, when I’m looking at attachment E, it says, new parking lot 15 spaces using
the existing parking lot. I don’t know how many spaces that is. 12 parallel space, which
I’m not sure in this D, is lost or not. In the new parking 14 spaces. So, that looks like 29
plus whatever the existing parking is and I don’t know about that 12. So, it's still a fairly
significant loss of parking, right? I mean, how many are we losing total that exist now?
If we go with E or D I’m sorry, we gain 19. But, how many are we losing?
Kuntz: The total number of spaces that we will lose when we take the road out is 30. In
front of the chamber right now we have approximately 11. So, we’re gaining in front of
the chamber, we’re gaining 8 spots minus the 30. This year we’re losing a total of 22
spaces. We’ll mediate those spaces depending on one; phase two is financed or
budgeted for. I will be bringing that to you at budget time for this year. That will be
mediated by two potential options. One is the 12 parallel spaces, excuse me, the new
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 15
parking on attachment E says new parking 14 spaces which that property belongs to
WARD. So, we’re hoping to work with them to create 14 new spaces there. In addition
to that, the spaces, which unfortunately you can’t see. It's in the lower right hand corner
of that map where there is currently playground and a large sandlot. That equipment will
all come out and there will be parking on both sides of that section for a total of, I
believe it was 24 spots.
De Weerd: (inaudible)
Kuntz: Yes, on the dark one. So, when phase two is complete we will break even on the
spots or be to the good approximately eight spots.
Nary: Okay. You had indicated you had met with Boise’s park planners on these two
plans. Their recommendation would be (inaudible). The reason for that was what?
Kuntz: Well, a couple reasons. One is that now you’re still creating a potential safety
hazard in that you’re making people travel from the playground equipment and the
picnic shelter across the road to use what will be the remodeled restrooms as part of
the chamber. Two is you’re actually somewhat defeating the purpose of taking that road
out and opening up more green space. Three, by their calculations, the number of
parking spaces necessary for the playground and the size of green space that’s here
what we’ll be putting back in is more than adequate.
De Weerd: Council Member Bird?
Bird: Tom, which --. Your Parks and Recreation Commission, have they looked at this?
Kuntz: Yes, they approved –
Bird: Attachment D?
Kuntz: Yes sir.
Bird: Okay.
Kuntz: As well as the chamber.
De Weerd: I don’t think they’ve seen E, (inaudible).
Kuntz: No. We just want to make sure that we turned all the stones over.
De Weerd: Now, it says in your meeting with WARD, they’ve asked you to do some
signing and communicate with the legion on the no parking in the pool area. Is that
going to be handled?
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 16
Kuntz: I guess I would look for some direction from the Council on that. There would
be some added costs as far as signage that we would be responsible for. It's not signed
now. Would we want to do that? Two is to send a letter out with legion packets
(inaudible) the legion program to make that happen for easily at no expense to us. So,
to answer your question, (inaudible). I guess I would look for your direction. If you want
us to do that, we certainly will.
De Weerd: At the meeting, what did you communicate to them at that time?
Kuntz: I don’t believe I communicated positive or negative as far as if we would do it or
not.
*** End of Side One ***
Bird: -- from the pool, other than for pool use. Is that right?
Kuntz: Correct.
Bird: That was the way they stated it?
Kuntz: It was the second week of December, so I’m not sure if I remember it verbatim.
De Weerd: But, that’s what you took away from it.
Kuntz: The rest of the Storey Park report, the latest estimates that we have from
Beniton Construction is that the chamber restroom expansion would be, right now is at
$75,000.00. Doug Beniton is still pursuing some donations that he has not tapped. He
thinks that the restroom expansion will come in about 70,000. Our budgeted amount for
that particular project is 63,000. We’re estimating at this point that the $120,000.00 that
we had budgeted for phase one is going to cover all of our expenses and we estimate
that we are going to have some monies left over.
De Weerd: Tom, in that 75,000, does that include the impact fees that the chamber is
being assessed and the City’s portion, sidewalk costs, I guess and design costs from
the architect?
Kuntz: My understanding is that that’s just construction costs. In attachment E2, it's on
Beniton Construction Company stationary. The second page actually breaks out the line
item costs.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
De Weerd: Will, as a board member of the chamber, have they discussed this at the
board meeting? Are there any hard numbers that they have at this point?
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 17
De Weerd: How about costs for impact fees?
Berg: That’s what the (inaudible). The ACHD impact fees (inaudible).
De Weerd: Have we paid for design on this? Is the same people designing our
restrooms that are designing the chamber?
Kuntz: Correct.
De Weerd: How is that going to be?
Kuntz: To my knowledge, we’re not paying any of that.
De Weerd: Even though they designed the bathrooms?
Kuntz: Yes.
De Weerd: How did the cost of the project increase from the estimated under 60,000 to
75, or 70?
Kuntz: I really can’t answer that. I mean, all I’m going is what their original estimate
was and this is their latest one.
Bird: Did we make any changes?
Kuntz: There were some changes that were made after we reviewed the plans with
Olsen Associates twice and I know there were some changes made but I don’t know
specifically what areas caused prices to go up.
Bird: What changes did you make Tom? Did we change the specifications of the
hardware or the fixtures or stuff like that?
Kuntz: The only one that I know of was that we wanted a Maxi-com door system put in
which allows, or is connected with our irrigation system which is all computerized in that
park now, which allows us to automatically have the doors lock in the restrooms from
our computer down at our offices at 11 or 12 at night.
Bird: How expensive an item is that?
Kuntz: It's probably 5 or $6,000.00 I would guess. As far as the fixtures and stuff, we
did not go stainless steel except for the sinks. We went stainless steel at Tully Park but
they were very expensive so we went with just ceramic at this site. But I can certainly
find out from Doug, specifically the items that caused the increase from the original
estimate.
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 18
Bird: I would like to see that when you have it. (inaudible)
De Weerd: Well, if it's within the budget, I don’t care.
Kuntz: Sure.
De Weerd: But if it's not it's certainly going to make a difference.
Kuntz: Okay.
Nary: This line item thing is that what ADS Specialties are for $1,000.00?
Bird: No. They don’t have all the hardware and the hollow metal doors and stuff.
Kuntz: Yes.
Nary: Because above it, it says doors and hardware ADS 3600 and then below that it
says specialties 4860.
Bird: The specialties would come out to more because they wouldn’t have the fixtures
or anything. Meridian Plumbing will have the fixtures. ADS Specialties could be just
locks for $200.00.
Kuntz: On the second page, ADS doors and hardware, $3600.00, Councilman.
Nary: Yes.
Kuntz: I would say that that is directly attributed to the Maxi-com door locking system.
De Weerd: So, what is your --?
Bird: No, that’s going to include --. They’re supplying the hollow metal doors and
everything else. So, that isn't all just the system.
Kuntz: No, but I’m sure that’s where it's listed, as part of it anyway.
Bird: Yes, I’m sure it's part of it.
Kuntz: Yes.
De Weerd: What is you time frame on this, Tom and when you need --? I imagine you’re
probably having the same people do it that are doing the chamber?
Kuntz: Correct. They’re groundbreaking the 15th
which is next week. I don’t know what
portion of the building --. I know they’ll take the roof off first and do some demolition out
front. But I don’t know exactly what their time frame is. I mean, obviously it's soon. We
just found out about these cost increases about two weeks ago.
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 19
De Weerd: What were your thoughts on any overages, where they would come out of?
Kuntz: Out of our phase one construction budget, 120,000.
Bird: Have you got a firm figure on 120, your phase one now? If you take it out of that
you’re going to come out short because you know, is 120 going to cover your phase
one construction?
Kuntz: Yes sir.
De Weerd: To include the overage?
Kuntz: If the overage is between 63 and 70, I think we’ll be all right. If it's up to 75, then
we’re not okay.
Bird: Tom, we haven't had good results with predetermined costs in this department. If
you say it's going to be 120 and they’re going to be able to pick up the extra 7 or
$8,000.00 with overage on the deal. How firm of an estimate do you have for phase
one?
Kuntz: Firm because I did it myself. I didn’t rely on architects. I went out and actually
got estimates from the people who were going to do the work for us.
Bird: On phase one?
Kuntz: Yes.
Bird: How do you know they determined they are going to do the work when this is a big
job?
Kuntz: Because it's under $25,000.00.
Bird: 120,000 is?
Kuntz: No. 120,000 is for different components of the project. The playground
equipment was 24,000. The excavation is 10,000. So, the entire job is not going to be
bid. It's components.
Bird: You’re going to be the construction manager?
Kuntz: Yes sir. It's a small project.
De Weerd: Are you figuring your salary in this too?
Kuntz: Yes Ma’am, 10 percent.
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 20
De Weerd: Okay. Any further questions, Council?
Nary: Madam President, could I just get clarification? So, what you’re saying is you
have $120,000.00 project that you’re not going to publicly bid because you’re going to
piecemeal all of it and you’re going to be the manager for the projects?
Kuntz: Our parks superintendent will be the manager.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Nary: Okay. So, your department is going to manage all of these individual projects?
Kuntz: Yes.
Nary: Is that legal?
Kuntz: Yes sir.
De Weerd: Is that a question for the City Attorney?
Nary: Well, I just have a concern that the public’s concern is going to be is it's not
going to be a public project when the whole project is 120,000 and we’re piecemealing
it like this. I guess I don’t know that that’s the best --. I wasn’t here for the decision of
doing this. But, is that the best use of our staff’s time to be managing a construction
project? I guess maybe it is a question for Mr. Nichols. Is that appropriate under Idaho
law, to simply piecemeal this project to avoid the public bid process? I don’t think that
looks very good publicly, to avoid the public process. I guess I’m not thinking that that’s
the most efficient use of the department’s time anyway. I guess I’m a little concerned
about it.
Bird: Madam President.
De Weerd: Councilman Bird.
Bird: I’m very concerned about it. The simple fact is Councilman Nary just hit upon it. I
don’t believe you have a person down there that is a construction manager. I realize this
isn't a big million, two million-dollar job, but there’s a lot of coordination and stuff that
you have to do. On the salaries that we pay, if they’re that good a construction
manager, they’re in the wrong trade. Tom, I think whether it's unethical or not, I think
you’re telling the public we’ll do it on our own. Don’t even bid our jobs. I think that’s what
we’re going to get if you want to know the flat truth from a lot of contractors, (inaudible).
I think this is something the Mayor and Council need to (inaudible).
De Weerd: Mr. Nichols, is there anything you can add to this?
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 21
Nichols: I think it's (inaudible). If the project is broken down into specific portions which
then can be effectively bid (inaudible) then it's legal. Whether that’s the best way to do it
or not, it's legal. (inaudible). A general contractor does not (inaudible). So that can be
specked out (inaudible). As long as those things are (inaudible).
Bird: Madam President.
De Weerd: Councilman Bird.
Bird: I (inaudible) and as I recall he just told me under 25,000 he don’t have to have a
bid. He went and got these people, publicly, as a public entity as a Councilman sitting
here, I think that any size job, you don’t just go give. I don’t think that we would --. I
don’t know, Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: Council Member, what I heard Tom say and I think what he did is --. We can
ask him again. If it's under 25,000, you have to get at least three bids.
Kuntz: Estimates.
Nichols: But you’ve got to get three estimates of what it's going to cost so that you, it's
not just I want so and so to do it. You have to get those (inaudible). If it's over 25,000
then it has to be (inaudible).
De Weerd: Council, would you feel comfortable if Tom goes over this with the Mayor
and the Mayor can make a call on this, that everything is done according to any City
policy and certainly state code?
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Corrie: I’ve got a few questions (inaudible).
De Weerd: Just one final thing, Will mentioned our Conditional Use Permit, that we
granted the chamber and we agreed to pay our share of the costs. We probably do
want to make sure we’re aware of what our share is if they haven't been keeping us up
to date. Anything further?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: I think though, we may want to have further discussion on how we want to
deal with future projects so our staff has a clear understanding of policy.
Kuntz: I guess I would just like to make pone comment. That is to Council Member
Bird’s remarks. One is we are certainly are not doing anything that we think illegal. Two
is we wouldn’t have taken this on if we thought it was a project that wasn’t simple
enough that staff could handle. Because really the components are taking old road out,
install playground equipment, which we purchased from a separate different company.
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 22
Pour concrete perimeter around that playground equipment; buy the fibar, which is the
wood fiber that goes into there from the playground manufacturer. Have volunteers
come in and spread the fibar. Put new curbing around a component by the chamber
that’s going to be the new parking area. Some of the old concrete will stay in place.
Some of the old asphalt will stay in place. Then getting someone to come in and set out
the asphalt. It really is a fairly small project. We have companies that we deal with on a
regular basis that we contract out with for testing, compaction testing of the asphalt
when we build parks now. It's real similar to what we did at Storey Park on the irrigation
system when the bids kept coming in 60, $70,000.00 over what our staff thought was
reasonable. We took that project on as a bid, in-house type of thing and substantially
saved 50, $60,000.00 last year. If it's the Council’s wish that we don’t take this project
on, we’re certainly more than willing to go through the bid process. We just thought
because of the small nature of this project that we could do it ourselves in-house and
save the City a lot of money.
De Weerd: Tom, I don’t know if it's an issue about other than with the irrigation system,
we were fully aware that you were doing that project. I don’t think anyone was aware
that you were, --. We just want to make sure that anything like this, we set some clear
policy and guidelines so that the public’s perception is not skewed and that we don’t
raise any concern out in the community. We want good bidding systems. If this will
hamper that, we certainly don’t want to encourage it. So, we just need to make note that
we want to set some clear guidelines and move forward. I know you’re trying to do as
much as you can with as little as you get but I think communication needs to be clear.
This certainly wasn’t communicated.
Issue #6 Update of City Projects:
B. Skateboard Park Project:
Kuntz: The next item, David Moe is here from the Parks Commission. David, do you
want to --?
De Weerd: Go ahead. If we can do the parks first and then the police department
following since the police department is listed first on here.
Kuntz: Oh, I’m sorry.
De Weerd: We’ll go ahead since Mr. Moe already has come forward. I see how you
superceded our police department.
Moe: Sorry.
Kuntz: Sorry, Chief.
Worley: That’s fine.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 23
Kuntz: Item No. 2 is the Skate Park.
De Weerd: This is issue No. 6 for the recorder and we’ll go to the Skateboard Park,
which would be 6B.
Kuntz: we opened the bids on December 3rd
and we had three bidders. The low bid is
Wright Brothers at 188750. Our budget amount was 120,000 minus the $16,000.00
design fee, which brings us to $104,000.00. As you can see we’re substantially a ways
away from the low bid on that project. We had a meeting with the low bidders who were
the Wright Brothers. We asked them if they would consider us going out and getting
donations for different pay items in the project. Those are listed, I believe on your
attachment F. There's one item that they left off. It's the shaping of the steel
reinforcement, $12,000.00. So, the actual total amount for the supplies would be
$83,000.00 to 94. Staff sees that we actually have three options as far as the Skate
Park. One is, is that we find some surplus money that we can use and award the
contract for 188750 and move ahead. Number two is allow staff time, which will be
through the month of January to go out and see if we can line up substantial
contributions to decrease the amount of the contract. The third option would be to reject
all bids and either carry the money over and ask for additional funding in next year’s
budget. The fourth option is, I was contacted by a young man who has his own
company, who is working with Boise City on the construction, or design and
construction of their new Skate Park at McMillan and Eagle. He has assured me that he
can save us substantial dollars. I’ve done some background check with Boise City on
what he has done in the past. I have a meeting with him tomorrow morning at 9:00 so
we can get an idea of what he can do and why he can do it. Then I want to do some
more background check to find out where he has done it before. Then report back to
the Council on that information once I get it.
Bird: Is he the construction company or is he the design company?
Kuntz: Both is my understanding from talking to Boise City.
Bird: We've got 16,000 in design already, as I understand. There was a pretty heavy
percent on a $120,000.00 estimated job.
Kuntz: Well, he won't, Council Member Bird. He won't be redesigning it. In fact he went
down and picked up a set of our blueprints last week, called me back to compliment us
on the design of the park. It was very well designed.
Bird: 16,000 out of 120, (inaudible).
Kuntz: There are a few things that he would tweak.
Bird: Tom, what do you do at that point? I mean, we can throw out all bids. It's just a
problem because of our (inaudible). We can let him go in and spend another 10,000 or
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 24
so to have him get it ready and come out and comes in at 150,000. We’re still over
budget and we’ve spent 26,000 for design. We aren’t any farther along.
Kuntz: Council Member Bird, we don’t plan on spending any more for the design.
Bird: he’s going to design it free then?
Kuntz: He will take our design, which he has already seen our blueprints, said he can
build that park. We’re not going to pay anymore for design. He’s convinced that he can
save a substantial amount of money. Some of the structures instead of being concrete
will be made of metal and a type of wood that doesn’t rot and you know that type of
thing. The reason I asked Mr. Moe to come in is he’s on our parks commission and also
with the CM Company. He reviewed the bids and (inaudible).
Moe: I basically, I went ahead and reviewed the plan. I did not do a complete estimate.
Basically after reviewing about five percent of the plan, I was already at about
$35,000.00. I called Tom and I said the cost is there. The design is such that it's very,
very labor intense (inaudible). I’m surprised that Wright Brothers, as far as materials are
that high, but it would look to me that it would have been more on the labor side. I don’t
know that you can take that plan that’s there and phase it, nor can you redesign it
based upon the size and everything else. It's a simple matter; you either put more
money into it (inaudible). Then you’re wasting (inaudible). It's been bid twice. That same
plan has been bid twice. The numbers have been fairly close both times. In the bid
market, it's not going to change. The numbers are there. The cost as I see it is there.
Nothing was elevated as far as cost at all. It's a very intensive project.
De Weerd: Now, David, if you knew that, as was discussed in the Commission. That
doesn’t mean the Council would agree with that or not, the 56 acres. Would that help
reduce it because of the work that’s going on at the 56 acres?
Moe: Well, on a full bid project if (inaudible) 56 acres, yes. You are going to get some
economies by putting that over there in the overall project. Are you going to reduce the
costs (inaudible)? No. A 5, $10,000.00 reduction I could see, just based upon putting it
with the rest of the (inaudible).
De Weerd: If you would ahead with this and its $80,000.00 than what you have in your
budget, how will you cover that?
Kuntz: Well, based upon the surplus that Stacy showed in our Bear Creek, when we
were looking for additional money for Bear Creek, there is money in impact fees from
this to cover that.
De Weerd: But, it's not in the budget?
Kuntz: No.
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 25
De Weerd: I think Council is pretty clear that they don’t want to see that.
McCandless: Madam President.
De Weerd: Council Member McCandless.
McCandless: You forgot my name already?
De Weerd: No, it's always Cherie.
McCandless: Tom, something’s been going through my mind for a long time. That is
that in the budgeting process, when we go through each department and budget, why
are always --? I can look back on any project, that you’re always coming back and
saying, you know that we got all these bids higher than what we had budgeted. Can we
somehow, at least next year look at the budgets more closely as to what the projects
are going to cost? Instead of constantly trying to figure out where that money is coming
from for the added costs on these projects?
Kuntz: Council Member McCandless, if you look back, my original request for the
Skate Park was $150,000.00. That was based upon numbers that I received from the
Land Group that were hard numbers their cost to build the skate park at Eagle, which is
I believe about 1200 square feet. Ours started out at about 1150 and we cut it back to
about 10 5, 1050.
McCandless: Then why are our bids so much higher?
Kuntz: The only reason that they can come up with, and Mr. Moe alluded to it is that
the Skate Park was built as part of phase one of the Eagle Park which included parking,
restroom, concession, some other amenities. Maybe there was some cost savings there
because it was a component. They went back and looked at their records, it was $12.00
a square foot. When they called Skate Park builders out of California, it was $12.00 a
square foot, after the first bids were open. They are scratching their heads. They have
no idea why it's $18.00 a square foot. If you look at our record on Generations Plaza,
we came in under bid on phase one. Phase two we’re over bid by about $7,000.00. So,
to answer your question, can I make sure at budget time that what I’m asking for is
going to cover the project? Yes, Ma’am I certainly can. But, when I ask for a set number
of dollars and because dollars only go so far, there have been cuts. I went from 150 to
120. I’m trying to do my job to the best of my ability and give you accurate numbers.
McCandless: I know that but I’m looking back and seeing so many times that the bids
always came in over budget.
Kuntz: Well, Chateau Park was 7, 50, $60,000.00 under budget.
De Weerd: Just to get back on track here.
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 26
Nary: Madam President, can I ask one more question?
De Weerd: Council.
Nary: What I heard Mr. Moe say was though that this is a fairly labor intensive design.
So, is that the problem here? I mean, did we design a Cadillac and do we have to
decide to we want the Cadillac or do we want to buy the ford now? I recognize we spent
$16,000.00 to design this Cadillac but is that something that we really need to rethink?
Do we just need to redesign this and get something within our budget? I’m not an
architect. I don’t know how those things end up. I guess if I’m telling somebody I’ve got
$120,000.00 to spend on this project, I’m going to hope that architect is going to design
me a project that I can go for $120,000.00. That doesn’t appear to be part of the
equation is why we’re having this discussion now. So, rather than spend more money, is
that something the park board would want to at least discuss on whether or not we just
need to if we’re going to scrap (inaudible) is one option. It would appear to me the park
may want to consider do we want to look at a different design of this project so we can
get it dealt with in the budget money that we have rather than (inaudible).
Moe: The biggest problem that we have there is, is that you’re going to end up having
the design spent. Now the only thing that we really haven't talked to the Land Group or
anyone about is trying to remove some of the components that are in this existing
design, but we want to walk through the plan. I’m not sure just exactly what you could
cut –
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Moe: It's fairly tight all the way through. So, I’m real concerned what they would be able
to take out and really what kind of savings we’re going to get by taking one or two
components out of the park.
Nary: that’s what I mean. I mean, I’m just thinking if the option we end up with is just
saying let’s start over --. I agree, I don’t like to throw more money down the rat hole
either. But, I also think we keep trying to put this square peg into a round hole by re-
bidding this every time. I think what you’re saying make sense to me that we’re going to
get bids that are about the same. We might save $1000.00 here and there but we’re not
going to get it down to (inaudible). So, now it appears to me that we need to look at
what can we build for 120?
Bird: the problem is we’ve only got 104 now because we paid 16. Mr. Moe, being in
your business, 16,000 out of 120 which is about 12 and a half 13 percent of the total bid
is a little high for professional services, I would say. I mean I know what we pay our
architects and engineers on our police building and our fire stations and all this stuff.
Was this design thing a competitively bid thing or did you just give it to the Land group
or what?
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 27
De Weerd: Council Member Bird, I think we’re kind of going in the wrong direction with
this. I believe that the commission is going to have a meeting tomorrow night. Maybe
some of these issues can be talked about and maybe brought back to us under a
Department report at our next Council meeting or we can also defer it to the 22nd
.
Kuntz: I would like to bring it back on the 22nd
.
De Weerd: Okay.
Kuntz: To give you the information I have. One quick comment. I just want to let you
know we definitely are not building a Cadillac. Eagle Park has an entire bowl that is far
more expensive to build than what we’re building. We’re building stairs and metal rails
to grind on. Then we have a large expanse of flat area which is per square footage is
much less expensive to build than the bowl that Eagle built. The Land Group’s estimate
to build this was 126 you know when we went in. I hope that answered some of your
questions.
De Weerd: Mr. Moe, thank you so much for attempting to talk.
C. 56 Acre Park Project:
Kuntz: Do I get to keep going?
Bird: We have the 56 acres.
De Weerd: We have this 56 acres, you bet.
Kuntz: On the front of our memo, page one, I just want to let you know, just for your
information I’ll bring it back to you on the meeting on the 22nd
. The parks commission
voted at the December meeting to recommend that we name the 56 acre park Freedom
Park.
De Weerd: Tom, what was your hope? Did you want some discussion on that?
Kuntz: Just to let you know at this point I’d like to bring it back for final consideration at
the January 22nd
meeting if that’s appropriate.
Bird: (inaudible)
Kuntz: Yes. The next item is in regards to what happened at the ACHD
Commissioner’s meeting on December 12th
. Real briefly, I just want to let you know that
we asked for them to delay requiring us to construct sidewalk along Ustick Road as not
--. Don’t make us build this as part of phase one. They did that. It’s contained in
attachment C. They gave us until April 1,
2003 to build that build that sidewalk along
Ustick Road.
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 28
Bird: (inaudible)
Kuntz: No sir.
De Weerd: Mr. Bird, do you want to talk?
Bird: Oh, I’m sorry.
De Weerd: You’re so use to taking over, dominating the meeting. I’m sorry Mr. Kuntz.
Kuntz: We don’t have a problem with that and we will bring that to you at budget time.
We do have estimates on what those costs will be as part of attachment C also. The
second item, they decided it was in reference to the (inaudible) in Cedar Springs, which
is along the northern boundary of our park. We met with JUB and together, and actually
they suggested it, came up with a way to mediate the length of the long straight away
street. Staff supported that, ACHD staff and the commissioners passed it. (inaudible).
The last thing on the 58-acre park is on the second page in my memo. We’re finalizing
the design of the ditch tiling. We’re start that project in February so we’re done by the
end of March. We have two glitches in getting our plans approved through our Public
Works Department. I know Mr. Watson and (inaudible) here tonight. One is our plans
cannot be approved with the construction of the restroom in there because there’s no
sewer to our property at this point. The second is that ACHD is saying if we build our
park before Cedar Springs, we have to build the majority of the road on the northern
boundary of our park even though it's not on our property. I know the Mayor is working
on that issue for us. We are having a meeting with Public Works tomorrow to see how
we can mediate the problem with the sewer. I don’t know if you’ve got any questions of
them tonight. The other option is that we don’t build the restroom as part of the initial
bidding process because we certainly want to get it out to bid and get construction
started right after the tiling is done. I don’t really have any input on how else to do it.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
De Weerd: Is it Brad or Gary? Brad or Gary, do you want to try and enlighten us onto
this and see if there’s anyway this project can be moved forward? At least getting the
pipes in the ground. That’s your comment right? Please come forward. Thanks David.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Kuntz: Attachment I on your packet.
Watson: Madam President, Mayor and Council Members. The memo, attachment I lists
five things that prevent those plans from being approved. One of those is a fire
department issue, which I obviously can’t speak to. These are all requirements for any
other project anywhere in the City has to conform to in order to get --. The water line
they propose to hook to doesn’t exist in Meridian Road. Consequently no fire hydrant
could be active. There’s no sewer service. We can approve plans for a structure if
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 29
sewer doesn’t exist, but the sewer that it connects to must be designed and approved
by DEQ. The White Trunk is designed and approved by DEQ, but the sewer through
Cedar Springs, as I stated in here, we’ve never even seen it. We assumed last fall that
those plans for Cedar Springs and the Preliminary Plat and annexation would be
coming through. As your well aware it's been continued into February. So, I don’t know
when we can expect to see that (inaudible). Your decision (inaudible) that’s how they
will connect to the sewer. If there’s any questions on the (inaudible) I’d be happy to
answer those.
Kuntz: Council, the water situation we feel like we can address potentially by coming
off of Ustick Road instead of Meridian Road. We want to have some discussions about
the two options tomorrow and the cost for that. I think the sewer is our biggest obstacle
at this point. As you can see by that map, we could potentially not include --. The
restroom is in the lower left-hand corner, right in the middle of the park, above the well.
We could possibly leave that out of the initial bidding of phase one. Or, if we had an
idea on the timing, leave it in the bid with the understanding that it would be constructed
as part of the last part of phase one.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Watson: Madam President, I don’t know the (inaudible) for Cedar Springs. I’m not sure
what the approval (inaudible) on that Final Plat to know whether they will bring sewer all
the way to the park during the initial construction phase or not. So, (inaudible).
De Weerd: Now, so when Cedar Springs begins construction, they don’t have to run it
through their property?
Watson: We don’t --.
De Weerd: When it starts?
Watson: Madam President, we don’t know yet because we haven't approved it yet or
attached conditions to it. We have to prepare (inaudible).
De Weerd: I think parks better have comments to go along with that.
Kuntz: The developer knows what this issue is.
De Weerd: But, the developer won't ask for that condition. You need to. Any questions?
Corrie: (inaudible). I can’t myself okay something I can’t okay for the public. (inaudible).
I mean, (inaudible) the timing would be right but you’re betting on the wrong guys
(inaudible).
De Weerd: I think right now, (inaudible).
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 30
Corrie: (inaudible) the question (inaudible) ACHD (inaudible). I think they would
probably back off from that. I talked to the president and also a couple of the others.
They realize that (inaudible) not on our property. That will be taken off. It will eventually
go on there but (inaudible).
De Weerd: If we could get follow up memo or something (inaudible) and work things out
with how you’re design needs to be to satisfy the requirements of the City.
Kuntz: (inaudible). Could I have one more minute of your time?
De Weerd: Is it on our agenda?
Kuntz: No ma’am. That’s fine. I just; there are items on here that really are just
informational. I just wanted to direct your attention. The Tree City Ordinance, we will
come back to you at a later time. We just wanted to get it in your hands so you’ve got
some time to look it over and we know you’ll have questions.
De Weerd: Now, Tom, I thought you wanted that on the 24th
.
Kuntz: I would like to.
De Weerd: Or, do you want it at our next workshop?
Kuntz: I look for direction from you on that. I didn’t know how you wanted to handle it.
De Weerd: Council, do you want it on the next workshop?
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
De Weerd: So, February 12th
?
Kuntz: Sorry to take so much of your time.
De Weerd: Any other comments on Tom’s memo or informational items? Okay. Thank
you Tom.
A. Meridian Police Center Building Project:
De Weerd: We’ll go back up to the police Department. I’m sorry, we kind of bypassed
you. Captain Bowman.
Bowman: I’m pleased to report to the Council that the construction is going very well.
We’re about, still a couple of weeks ahead of schedule. Our last construction meeting,
(inaudible) with Mike Berard and Kreizenbeck. Everything’s going well ahead of
schedule. The one issue that he did bring up at the last meeting, the cabinets in our
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 31
evidence area apparently the original fit on that didn’t meet their requirements. That
project is going back out to bid (inaudible).
Corrie: We had to reject --.
*** End of Side Two ***
Bowman: -- last Monday. I took some photos of the project as it currently stands. The
exterior work is just about, almost complete. You can see they’ve got the woodwork up
and the soffett will probably, they’ll start that work this week. The roof, there’s 14
different roofs on this structure. They are just about completed. So, we’ll have the whole
building buttoned up. This end on the top there where that wood is, is our last portion of
roof that needs to be completed on this project. You can see some of the exterior work
being done. I thought you would enjoy that one. This actually surprised and pleased me
when I was out there. They’re starting to put in the windows. So, the cosmetic
appearances of the building, you‘ll start seeing a lot more of the character in the project
now if you go out there and view it on the site. I was out there again today. All those
window frames are in right there on that one side. That’s the west side that they’re
working on right now. The glass will start coming out soon. On the interior what I wanted
to point out on the construction project, a lot of the interior walls on the first floor, the
studs are all in place. We’re getting ready to do wiring and the plumbing. I’ve got photos
of some of that project. Some of the duct work, most of the duct work on the first floor is
done and they’ll start moving up to the second floor now and starting that project up
there. These are some of the utility closets. You can see they’re starting to put sheet
rock up and hang the panels in those. Plumbing is going in. As I pointed out, the duct
work. This is the electrical panel for the power supply there. The generator is in, in the
building and being wired in. moving up to the second floor, they are starting to put the
framework for the walls and studs and so forth in up there also. Toward that far end is
the front of the building. That will all be glass when it's completed. The banister I was
told by the project manager is just about done and it's a mesh type of banister. I’m not
sure what that means but he said it would be a very attractive banister when it goes in
with that upper railing. That’s all I have (inaudible). Any questions, Council?
Bird: Madam President.
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Captain Bowman, have we thought ahead and got all security, our security locks
and everything involved in this project? It's all going to be done at this point? We’re not
going to have to add some later?
Bowman: There are several projects that are not in contract that Kreizenbeck will
handle. What we will be handling are the telephone, cabling and security system. I’m
working on this project right now. I just met with one company that we’re looking at for
the security system. As far as the locks go, we just had a conversation regarding that
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 32
today. They have to get a hold of the project manager and the architect to make sure
everything coordinates with our security system (inaudible).
Bird: But, we have got a security system?
Bowman: Yes sir.
Bird: Thank you.
Bowman: IN fact, it's a local company that’s working on the project.
De Weerd: Anything else? Mayor?
Corrie: No.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Bowman: Thank you. You’re welcome.
De Weerd: You do a much better presentation than the Chief.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
D. South Slough Trunkline Project:
De Weerd: Okay. The South Slough Trunkline project.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Watson: Again, thank you. The South Slough sewer project, we don’t have any
audiovisual aides but we –
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Watson: As you may recall JUB Engineers is our consultant on this project. We’ve been
working on it for a while. In fact, we met with (inaudible) in the audience on a different
topic that’s going to come up. We met with them yesterday. They’re in the very final
design plans and specifications. We have secured almost all the easements. There’s
actually two. We consider them kind of one because they’re tied together on the front
end. But, we’re working on that.
De Weerd: You said, kind of secured?
Watson: No, those two are not secured. We’ve talked to them and been negotiating with
them.
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 33
De Weerd: What is the time line to complete those negotiations?
Watson: I guess it would be up to those individuals. We’re hoping that we can go to bid
with this in mid to late February. We’ve had quite a few conversations with both the
individuals that are left. Well, at least one. The other one kind of tags along with the first
one.
De Weerd: So, where all does this take the South Slough then? It takes it over Eagle.
Watson: It comes from Chamberlain Estates, through some other developed property
into Carol Sub. That’s a County subdivision.
De Weerd: Yes.
Watson: It hits Leslie Way and then it goes both south and north. The north leg goes up
to Ustick and just crosses Eagle. It will stop on the east side of Eagle. The south way
comes through Leslie Way and the same thing. It just stops on the east side of Eagle.
Watson: We’re getting there.
De Weerd: Any other questions?
Bird: Madam President.
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: How long to completion, Brad on this once it's bid and awarded?
Watson: About six months.
Bird: Six months?
Watson: Our consultant agrees.
De Weerd: I like how that works. So, by the end of the summer? Possibly?
Watson: Yes, usually when we bid, there’s about a two to four week period of paperwork
and ordering materials. Early fall, by the time it gets cleaned up and tested, and
operational. That’s our hope.
F. Ten Mile Interchange Sewer Trunkline project:
De Weerd: Thank you. You made that short enough I’ll let you talk about the Ten Mile
Interchange sewer stuff.
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 34
Watson: Madam President, I think Gary is going to do most of the talking on this. We
did plan to put this on the overhead. We have some members in the audience who are
here for this.
De Weerd: I assumed that.
Watson: We were just going to put it on the projector. We don’t have that operational.
So, if anyone wants a copy of this drawing, please give me a call at some point
tomorrow, whenever, or give me your name after the meeting or something like that.
We’ll make sure we get one to you.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
De Weerd: This is an informal dialogue. If you have questions, just raise your hand and
I’ll recognize you.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
De Weerd: I will ask you to come forward if you have questions so we can get it on the
tape.
Smith: Madam President, Mayor and Council. Several weeks ago JUB Engineers made
a presentation to you with several alternatives for sewering this area generally known
as the intersection of Franklin Road and Ten Mile Road. This study was initiated by the
Dakota Company who was the original representative of the property owner that is
shown in the pink color on your map, which is labeled, figure A 13. As part of the
presentation that JUB made to you at that time, there was discussion about a projected
schedule to construct and there was also some discussion about another alternative
that in effect serve more property than what property was being represented at the time
by Dakota Company. Since that time, Dakota Company is not involved in representation
of the owner. There’s another company and I think it's called Retail Properties West
now representing the property owner who is East Bourne Investments out of Canada.
The figure A 13 is a representation of an alternative that would be part of the ultimate
sewering of the southwest area of Meridian. Primarily, the Ten Mile Diversion Trunk
construction and there’s a short section at the bottom of the colored area that’s labeled
build dry line trunks. That would also be a portion of the trunkline extending under the
interstate continuing to the south and east to serve additional property which ultimately
would be the Black Cat Trunk serving Bear Creek for example and some property to the
south and east of Bear Creek. From your staff’s standpoint, I guess our feeling is that a
project such as this needs to serve more property than what it originally started out to
study. That is just the property that East Bourne Investments was interested in
developing. I think that we would be probably criticized if additional property adjacent to
these pieces could not get sewer service. The installation of a lift station on Franklin
and Ten Mile Road with a length of pressure main of Ten Mile to discharge into the
sewer line that exists on Ten Mile somewhat north of Pine would serve this
development. It would not serve, for example, the property to the north side of Franklin
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 35
Road and to the east of Ten Mile Road. That question was immediately posed to us by
that property owner because they became aware that this study was being done. I think
in the interest of development in this area, we wanted to look at this scenario. JUB did
project some costs for this and I guess it opinion of probable cause and also created a
preliminary project schedule.
Unidentified Speaker: Do you mind if I ask which piece of property East Bourne
Investments own? Thanks.
Smith: It's the property that’s shaded in pink.
Unidentified Woman: Okay.
Smith: The property that’s shaded in green, there are several other property owners. I
don’t know what the split of property ownership is there. I talked to East Bourne’s
project representative as far as time goes on this development. They’re pretty much
hinged around the development of the interchange. The word I get from them is
optimistically that project is two and a half to three years for completion. That’s
optimistic. Pardon me?
Unidentified Man: The interchange, two and a half to three years?
Smith: Yes.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
De Weerd: I hope so. I hope they’re right.
Bird: I do too.
Smith: I think the speed that an interchange develops is directly proportional to the
amount of private of money that’s invested in it. I don’t know how that works for sure. I
guess there is some money that’s available for this. Private money that’s available to
construct the interchange. Again, I don’t know how much that is. I don’t know what kind
of conversations have been had between the developer, or landowner and ITD. It's my
understanding that the president of the company is in town this week and meeting with
his representatives so maybe some additional information will come to us. The financing
of the project of course is still something that needs to be discussed in depth. We have,
as I mentioned earlier, we have the costs, an opinion of probable costs from JUB. For
the project that’s shown on A 13, figure A 13, we also have the opinion of probable
costs for the small lift station and the force main in Ten Mile Road that will serve just this
property. The green and the pink property. JUB has split out the cost of what would be if
this trunkline was constructed as shown on figure A 13, they have split out the cost that
could be attributable to the development shown in the area shaded pink and green from
that total cost. Overall, to build the Ten Mile Diversion Trunk, the 12 inch lateral in Ten
Mile Road, the dry sewer lines within the development and the lift station and force
main is 4.89 million estimated cost. Of that, we feel that the developer’s share based on
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 36
a percentage of flow from this development, estimated flow from this development to
the total capacity of the pump station is roughly 1.2 million which leaves 3.7 million to
be financed by others assuming that the developer will subscribe to this share.
De Weerd: These are the costs on the 13 option?
Smith: Correct. Yes. The study that JUB did, I can’t remember how many alternatives
there were. Five? Five alternatives were presented by JUB in their packet that they
handed --. Yes, correct. So, it's still a decision that needs to be made. This, figure A13 is
what we feel, as your staff would be appropriate to construct. Brad and I talked earlier
that the range here in costs of what to build would be from on the low end building a lift
station at Franklin and Ten Mile Road and 3,000 pressure main to serve the property
shown in the green and the pink. That’s the economy model. You can go up to the other
end of the scale and you construct a 42-inch trunkline in Black Cat Road, which is the
ultimate fix for sewering, all of south west Meridian.
De Weerd: What is the cost difference between the two options to the developer?
Smith: to this developer?
De Weerd: Yes. If you went with the lift station that would only serve that down Ten Mile
what was the cost to that project versus A 13?
Smith: 375,000 for the developer cost to just serve --.
De Weerd: So, we’re asking for a substantial increase in investment to this developer by
doing it the correct way?
Smith: The 375,000, that includes (inaudible) and the first main (inaudible). It did not
include the 12 line in Ten Mile. It did not include the dry line.
Unidentified Man: The 375,000 represented by what's in red here. That would be built if
the case occurs where the sewer service isn't extended by the time (inaudible). That
would be their option to construct that little pump station (inaudible).
De Weerd: Now, if you allowed that to happen, could they also incur costs of bringing
the main line down at some later point?
Smith: Well, it becomes a real interesting discussion where a developer has, I think in
effect, you’ve taken the developer out of the picture in financing the other sewer line. If I
were in their shoes and I came to them, or the City comes to me and says well now that
you have service we’d like you to participate in this trunkline. I would kind of look at
them like, well exactly why do you want me to do this because I already service? I think
it would be a real tough sell.
Nichols: Madam President.
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 37
De Weerd: Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: Gary, on the estimate of cost, --. Let me back up. Do we have easements for
this diagonal dark black line here? This property clear over to Black Cat?
Smith: No sir.
Nichols: Did the cost estimate include the cost of acquiring those easements?
Smith: I think so.
(inaudible discussion amongst audience)
Nary: Madam President.
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I guess I didn’t understand the dark diagonal line. What would be the increased
cost to just build this in the right-of-way so we don’t have to get all these easements?
Would it be a significantly large increase?
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Nary: To just build it in the right-of-way?
Unidentified Speaker: Actually just the Black Cat (inaudible).
Nary: I didn’t know if this was going to be something that two years from now, we’re
going to say we’ve almost got all these easements. If we’re going to build it, lets just
build it.
Watson: Madam President.
De Weerd: Yes.
Watson: I think that Councilman Nary is asking a different question. The dark black line
needs to be built ultimately no matter what.
Nary: This diagonal one?
Watson: Yes.
Nary: It can't be built in the right-of-way? This is through an existing drain or something?
Watson: It's along an existing drain in a low spot.
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 38
Nary: Okay.
Watson: There was an alternative in your book that I think you got last month that had
the Black Cat Proper, which is the lightly shaded pink line in a right-of-way. It was option
five. So, there’s two different things going on.
Nary: Okay. So, this black line needs to be built anyway. But you’re saying and this isn't
going to be the same problem that we’ve had with these others, getting these
easements and all that? Or, you don’t anticipate that?
Watson: Councilman Nary. It does need to be built.
De Weerd: The magic ball.
Watson: I’m not guaranteeing we won't have the same easement problems. But, we did
build in a cost for simply paying the appraised rate on the easements.
(inaudible discussion from audience)
De Weerd: Any other questions? Mr. Mayor?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Yes sir. If you’ll step forward and just give us your name for the record.
Janicek: Madam President, I’m Brad Janicek.
De Weerd: Hi Brad.
Janicek: (inaudible). What we’re talking about here today is this red line here? Doing
this one here?
De Weerd: There are two options being discussed. Yes.
Janicek: What are the two options Brad? When you’re talking about a right-of-way,
you’re talking about this right-of-way up through here?
Watson: Right. We were talking about securing easements along Ten Mile Drain for this.
It's called the Ten Mile Diversion Trunk. Ultimately the Black Cat comes down Black Cat
to Franklin turns east and then ends up going through your property.
Janicek: But, what does the developer want to do? Specifically what is he proposing?
Watson: To my knowledge the developer hasn’t proposed anything.
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 39
Smith: He hasn’t proposed anything. That’s just a study that was done to outline some
alternatives as to how that property could be served.
Janicek: When you say that property, you’re talking about --?
Smith: This green and pink property.
Janicek: Okay. Can we get sewer here also at the same time?
Smith: Not off of this extension. I believe your property sewer comes off of this other
Black Cat Trunk.
Janicek: But, if they’re going to have a forced line and they’re going to peak from here
up to here or they’re going to put this one in?
Smith: That’s yet to be determined. That’s what we’re doing is just trying to study the
alternatives to see what the probable costs are or possible costs are so that the City
can make a decision as to which way to proceed.
Janicek: Well, the comment that was made about, well if they had service then they
probably would not pony up to go down the road. Is that for this (inaudible) right here?
Smith: If the only property that is serviced is this property that’s colored, the pink and
the green, they can do that by constructing a lift station at Franklin and Ten Mile Road.
Then pumping it north into an existing gravity line.
Janicek: Into this one here?
Smith: Right. This is built. They would pump from this point north and dump it into a
gravity line. That would accomplish a sewer service for this property and that’s all it
would serve.
Janicek: So, in other words, from this point here it would gravity to this point
(inaudible)?
Smith: Right.
De Weerd: If they did it this other way, is that the line that’s going to go down south,
south of the freeway?
Smith: It's part of it.
De Weerd: Oh.
Smith: The dry line that’s built diagonally through that lower portion that’s shaded pink is
part of the Black Cat Trunk and would extend on under the interstate to the southeast, it
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 40
would also extend to the northwest through Mr. Janicek’s property over to Black Cat
Road ultimately.
Bird: Madam President.
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: With the Black Cat, this line has still got to be there doesn’t it? Because there’s no
way this can force down into the Black Cat when the Black Cat is in. it don’t gravity
down this way does it? This line is part; this will be an extension of Black Cat.
Smith: We’ve got a drainage break here --.
Bird: That’s what I thought.
Smith: There’s a break right here.
Bird: Yes. So, this is in here regardless. This is the planned Black Cat, right?
Smith: Black Cat Trunk, correct.
Bird: This is still going to be there regardless?
Smith: Correct.
Bird: That has to be there because this does not gravity flow down into this Black Cat?
Smith: Right.
Bird: How much more is it to do this? What I would like to know is how much more is it
to do the Black Cat down to this point period? From the top, not from the Ashford
Green’s.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
De Weerd: Nine and a half million dollars?
Bird: How much?
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Bird: That’s more than we (inaudible).
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Bird: Nine and a half?
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 41
Haener: 7.3
Bird: 7.3 and is that from the permanent lift station up off of Ustick, north of Ustick?
De Weerd: That’s putting in that lift station up here. Is that right?
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Haener: It's actually option 3A. Pardon me. Option 3A would build the Ten Mile
Diversion trunk, Black Cat Road from Cherry Lane to the pump station. It would
construct the pump station and the force main to the treatment plant. (inaudible).
Bird: What (inaudible)? That’s the 7.5?
Haener: No, this is the 7.32, okay? The additional cost for the Cherry Lane --.
Bird: 9.5
Haener: (inaudible) is not in this draft report but I do have that number. I will get that
number to you.
Bird: At one time you gave us a complete cost out of our sewer system. (inaudible) for
an increase in the construction cost for the years.
Haener: Yes, we can get that number to Brad. Can I make a clarification real quick
about these two alternatives and the cost to the developer? In this case --. In the case
of the, where we’re just going to have them perhaps build a pump station and a force
main, that is $375,000.00. If they do this option, then they still have to build their dry line
trunks and all these pipes in here. So, the total to the developer for this option would be
$1.38 million. Okay? If this is extended out here and they do not have to build this
$375,000.00 pump station and force main their cost is $1.19 million.
De Weerd: 1.19? So, it's less?
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
De Weerd: Then they’re building in this very part of this system.
Haener: Here’s why it's less. Because their share of this is pro-rated. So, they only have
to pay (inaudible) percent of this cost. Five percent is less than the cost of building this
pump station (inaudible).
De Weerd: And bearing 100 percent of the cost?
Haener: Correct.
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 42
Janicek: Madam President.
De Weerd: Mr. Janicek.
Janicek: Can I ask another question? Well, has this got enough capacity here in this line
if they force it up to here?
Haener: Yes, from just this (inaudible). Correct.
Janicek: From just this?
Haener: Right.
De Weerd: But, then they’re not developing anything further for any future expansion on
south?
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
De Weerd: Mr. Allison.
Allison: Madam President.
De Weerd: Rich Allison.
Allison: My name is Rich Allison. Mr. Mayor, Council. We happen to have a number of
owners in that area that is conceived as the Black Cat trunkline, that there are
developers in place that would like to buy their property, develop the property. There’s
currently no accessibility to sewer. That’s where their problem is. In other words if you
took a look at the property owners on Black Cat itself and that general industrial zone
that runs along the railroad tracks and all of the additional properties that would be
developed by building the Black Cat trunkline, the total acreage is about 2,000 acres.
When you look at dividing that number into the 2,000 acres to build this, we’re looking
at a far different situation. I think that’s what should be looked at. Because this property
is ready to develop. The developers are there to buy the property as soon as the sewer
is available to serve the property. That’s where our problem is now. I’m one of the
owners of the property here tonight.
L. Janicek: I have a stupid question. I’m Luann Janicek. I don’t understand why in the
world, knowing that probably at some point Ten Mile is going to have an interchange
there would be service to one side of the road but not the other. Wouldn’t there be there
need for service on both sides of Ten Mile Road as an off ramp there?
De Weerd: But, you can't ask that developer to develop sewer that wouldn’t service him.
L. Janicek: Oh, no.
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 43
De Weerd: So, what he is doing is bringing the sewer here so that that property can
then take it further on down.
L. Janicek: Down this way. No, I wasn’t asking this developer. I was just asking as a
comprehensive plan in full why it would not be considered that this should be done as
this.
De Weerd: Because you don’t have a buyer paying for the portion to do that.
L. Janicek: In other words, this pink guy, whatever his name is out of Canada, East
Bourne, is willing to come up with the fees? 375,000, was his cost?
Bird: No.
De Weerd: No, 1.19.
L. Janicek: 1.38? Okay.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
L. Janicek: So, the 375 was just the lift station?
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Smith: The only thing we’re trying to do here is just establish some estimate costs for
some different alternatives.
L. Janicek: So, do you understand my question then?
Corrie: It's not a stupid question.
De Weerd: Okay. Any questions, Council?
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
De Weerd: Statements?
Haener: Thanks Madam President and Council.
Bird: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Well, we don’t make any decisions at workshops. Thank God.
Thank you for that. Now, Gary what is the next step? Do you need us to schedule this at
another meeting? What kind of direction are you looking for from Council?
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 44
Smith: Well, I think we have a policy issue here that we need some direction on as to
what the Council would like to happen as far as development in this areas goes. That
would give us direction as to how to proceed in contacting property owners that are
interested in developing to see what financial interests there might be in building this
line. There’s always, I think the real opportunity to have a partnership between the
public and the private entities in making construction projects like this go forward. I
think, utmost, up top is the policy of the Mayor and City Council as to how you want to
see development take place out here. You know this is really, I think it really points out
the need to look at the big picture as opposed to a development.
Bird: Madam Chairman. Gary and Brad, what I would like to see is a cost estimate. I
think we would be actually throwing money away if we don’t come from this thing here
all the way down here. This has got to go in anyway. And get it down to the freeway at
this point, get our Ten Mile deal done with our fee implement, and partnerships and stuff
like that. See how we can do it. I think that, you know as well as I do, if we don’t lay it,
permanent down through here and stuff, we’ll be back digging it up when we do lay the
permanent Black Cat. That just gets us down into if we’re going to do it for this one
development, I think you have to open up that whole area, Council. I firmly believe that.
I don’t believe you just come in for this. At the same token maybe if we can open it up to
these other developers, for some of these other properties along that Ten Mile
exchange, maybe they can also come forward with some money for the exchange to
help us out. I would like to see what kind of a cost we’re looking at. Include that pump
station and come back and get it down. We all know that there is already a plan,
developer driven that would do the north part of the Black Cat Trunk, pay for it right
now.
De Weerd: No, not right now.
Bird: No, but I said they would pay for it. Anyway, I think I would like to look at that
myself.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
De Weerd: Mr. Watson.
Watson: Madam President. One thing to point out to you is that this --. You’ll note that
it's denoted as a semi-permanent. This option could be the permanent solution. Tim
took a lot of time to explore this so that it's an alternative to building that mile to mile
and a half of 42 inch main through developed subdivision between them. That’s one
thing to keep in mind. It would certainly provide the cost for the whole Black Cat as was
in the master plan originally but this could be a permanent solution. The Black Cat can
still go down Black Cat, hit Franklin and get that property on the west side of Ten Mile
Road. No one is saying that that can't happen. We’re just not studying that right now.
The alignment hasn’t changed from the master plan. When you’re looking at these
(inaudible) that could be a permanent solution.
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 45
De Weerd: It hasn’t been further studied because the developer, the development or
applicant, potential applicant, whoever paid for this portion of this study. Is that correct?
Watson: Correct. We already have cost estimates, unfortunately they’re not included in
this report for the Black Cat --.
De Weerd: In your total master plan?
Watson: Madam president permission?
De Weerd: Yes.
Haener: Just one thing about the alternative where you do a more or less permanent
pump station and force main. Of all the alternatives we looked at on a present year
basis, on a 50 year project life, it has the least (inaudible) cost of any of the alternatives
because we are able to delete that very deep gravity sewer in that existing road.
Bird: Come back and say that in laymen’s terms.
Haener: Okay.
Bird: Okay, now. Is it going to be cheaper to do this?
Haener: It's going to be cheaper to do this than it is to build the gravity trunk.
Bird: This isn't a gravity trunk is it? This has got a pumping station?
Haener: Right. The gravity trunk from here to here, from this pump station (inaudible).
It's cheaper to build this one than it is to build this gravity trunk and this pump station.
De Weerd: So, will you --?
Smith: It transfers the flow, it transfers this flow. Instead of bringing the flow down Black
Cat, it transfers this flow over to another --.
Bird: Over to McDermott?
Haener: Actually --.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Haener: All of the flow that would normally go here would go here. The only thing that
we would have to do is down here where there was a trunk, let’s say coming this way
from this gravity trunk (inaudible). On an overall project basis, including (inaudible) and
financing, going with a five foot deep 30 inch pipe instead of a 25 foot deep 42 inch pipe
is cheaper in the long run.
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 46
Bird: Okay. Let me ask you a question. If this is a 32-inch, what do you do on
permanently?
Haener: The 9,000 is all you’ll ever need according to the master plan.
Bird: No, we’re going down with the Ten Mile?
Haener: This would drain into this pump station. Then you just build your gravity trunks
as shown in the master plan. This would be kind of the low point. Everything would
drain to there. Then you just simply pump to the (inaudible).
Bird: SO, what you’re telling me is we don’t really need this line other than for the north?
Haener: Right.
Bird: Why have we always been talking about big regional pump stations?
Haener: This is just an alternative that we --.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Smith: This proposal would carry the pressure on all the way to the plant but there is a
Nine Mile trunk that runs along here right now.
Bird: do we effect its capacity at all?
Smith: No.
Bird: This would just be a separate line?
Smith: Separate line all the way (inaudible).
Bird: So, this is it's own line? The only thing that we’re --? Well, then how do we sewer
this Brad?
Watson: Councilman Bird. We would still need a lift station at the Five Mile. It would just
be a much, much smaller, permanent --.
Bird: So, we’re just coming this way and then down --? Do we need the lift station
coming from the north?
Watson: Yes.
Bird: But, we would not need the big regional lift station?
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 47
De Weerd: Not a big one.
Watson: It would just be a small one. The disadvantage, there’s two permanent lift
stations as opposed to one. When they did the master plan they tried to minimize the lift
stations.
Bird: Yes, I know that. Our best bet is just go on and run from there and leave this in,
cost wise and capacity wise?
Haener: Yes, capacity is the same either way. Cost wise, on an overall, life cycle project
cost, it's cheaper to run this pump station and construct a shallow pressure main rather
than a big deep.
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Thank you. I was just sitting here thinking it seems like we’ve run a little afield of
where we were. I mean, do we need to simply put it on a future agenda? This study, I
think Brad said a couple times, or Gary was over a particular property request that was
done. So, do we need to basically bring out master plan back along with this study and
say where do we go now? Is that kind of where we need to go next?
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
De Weerd: That was good news.
Nary: Yes, it is.
Smith: I guess what we need to do, depending upon what the Mayor and Council wants
to do in terms of the sewer in this area, would be to generate some more costs to
include the rest of the Black Cat Trunk through Mr. Janicek’s property.
Nary: I guess, for the two cents that it's worth, I would agree with Councilman Bird. I
think if we’re going to do this, we need to do this to be able to serve the most number of
people. Obviously that’s in the best interest of the City is to be able to create the most
number of people who will have access and be able to use it. We just need to figure out
where the money comes from and how do we phase that.
De Weerd: I don’t know if you’re going to open up a huge chunk like we’re talking about
the White Drain by doing this. By going from here to the interstate.
Watson: Mr. Allison indicated 2,000 acres.
Allison: It was approximately 2,000 acres there by the Black Cat trunk and (inaudible).
Watson: The White Drain was three and a half sections.
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 48
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Smith: -- taken an inventory of all the property that Rich is referring to see how it plays
out. That’s a big area.
De Weerd: But, if you’re going to have an interchange, you’re going to be expecting that
kind of growth.
Allison: Madam President, can I make one more comment?
De Weerd: If you come up here, I’ll allow it.
Allison: One additional thing I was looking at when I was evaluating the whole thing
which there’s another trunkline that comes up here to Franklin and cuts over to here
which is a part of this Ten Mile trunk. This property in this location is worth just as much
--.
*** End of Side Three ***
Allison: -- this location which is equally valuable as this location. Upon the completion of
the Ten Mile interchange here should indicate a cost somewhere between $8.00 and
$10.00 a foot (inaudible). So, we’re talking about a very substantial investment decision.
In addition, I mean, for this just to develop without the additional 300 acres of
commercial and the additional about 1700 acres of general industrial, which is the only
general industrial we have in the City of Meridian would be a great loss in revenue.
Bird: Thank you Rich.
De Weerd: Okay. We probably do want to bring this back. What’s your pleasure
Council? When do you want to have this back on?
Bird: Madam President, I would like it on the next workshop if it's feasible to address it
and I also would like the costs to generate like the gentleman from JUB stated, to bring
the Black Cat line down to the interchange. I would like to see what that --. I don’t think
that cost will be that much more, hopefully. That would open up all that property there.
De Weerd: So, bring it back on February 12th
?
Bird: I would love to if you (inaudible).
De Weerd: Okay. Do you have any other thing you need us to answer?
Smith: On this topic? As I mentioned before that, that lift stations and collection systems
can be installed in pretty quick order compared to building up treatment facilities
(inaudible). So, we’ll have to look at how fast the plant can expand for treatment versus
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 49
our construction of the White Drain, the construction of the North Slough, and the
construction of the Black Cat Trunk.
De Weerd: Right.
Smith: It's a big impact.
De Weerd: February 12th
, is that set enough time? At least to give us an update.
Smith: Enough time for JUB to look at the additional costs for extending the Black Cat
Trunk to the interstate.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Bird: Thank you guys very much.
E. Laptop Computers/Laser Fiche Project:
De Weerd: Well, Laptop computers.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
De Weerd: Do you have a PowerPoint presentation?
Berg: I wish I had the laptops. I guess all I can report on is the laptops are on order.
They’re IBM. The LaserFiche program is on order. I haven't received either one so we
haven't gone any further except for as soon as we get them then we start programming
and testing. (inaudible) a low-key meeting or something of that nature to be the first run
to see how things go.
Bird: Training?
Berg: Yes.
Bird: I’ll show you how to shut it down.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Berg: And we’re looking to check out (inaudible).
De Weerd: When we get those in, then perhaps we can set a probably you won't be
doing training at a workshop. We can try and set, once we know, training schedule.
Berg: We could even set up individual training things of how to operate it --.
De Weerd: That would be preferred, wouldn’t it?
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 50
Berg: Come on in on an individual basis. I mean some could be after work and some
could be during the day.
De Weerd: Okay.
Berg: Because the staff would have to know how to run it, as well as Terri (inaudible).
(inaudible).
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
De Weerd: Thank you Will.
Issue #7 Update and Timeline of new fees for Public Works and Parks and Safety
Services Impact Fees by Brad Watson, Tom Kuntz and Mayor Corrie
De Weerd: Okay. Issue No. 7 we have new fees for Public Works. How are we doing on
our timeline? DO we need to be scheduling anything on the 22nd
of this month? I think
that’s when you had anticipated your first --.
Watson: Madam President, we have Public Works review and inspection fees
scheduled for a Public Hearing on the 22nd
. Those have been noticed in the Idaho
Statesman last Friday. I think this Friday and the following Friday.
De Weerd: What is that called?
Watson: Public Works review and inspection fees. I’m not sure if the clerk puts copies of
those notices out in the boxes.
De Weerd: No, I’m sure not.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Watson: I will have copies in your boxes tomorrow.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Watson: January 22nd
, yes.
Berg: It's the same issue we had before (inaudible)?
De Weerd: It’s starting to turn out to be quite a meeting.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
De Weerd: Okay. So, that’s the first one coming through the public process.
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 51
Watson: Water and sewer fees will be next. As I stated last month, the water rate
calculations show it being very close to the same. It's within the five percent up or down.
I don’t think that would necessitate a public hearing. Is that correct, Mr. Nichols?
Nichols: As long as the increase is less than five percent.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Nichols: There are times when you go ahead and do something like that just so you --.
It's not a legal requirement (inaudible).
Watson: Now that you mention that, the structure of the fee changes --.
Nichols: Has to have a hearing.
Watson: Yes. The point I was getting to is the sewer calculations show that it would be
going up significantly more than five percent, if you approved it. We’re talking 20
percent range. The feedback I’ve gotten from previous Council meetings is we probably
won't make that big a jump in one rate increase.
De Weerd: No.
Watson: I would hope to get those --. I would really like to bring the final figures to you
at the planning meeting in February and plan on a public hearing if we have a fourth
Tuesday in February. That may be too soon for a public hearing.
De Weerd: So, water and sewer fees you want to bring to our workshop on February
12th
?
Watson: Yes.
De Weerd: We’ll see what that increase and maybe figure out how to --. You’ll come
with a recommendation on how to spread that out over a period of time?
Watson: I will come with a recommendation pleading for input on that because
(inaudible).
De Weerd: But, you’ll at least submit a proposal?
Watson: Sure. What I’ll probably do is go with several different options and arranges
and leave it up to you, maybe, make a recommendation and leave it to you which one is
most plausible.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 52
Watson: The third and fourth sets of these --. You obviously know I’m not getting
anywhere on it. We’ve met with JUB to talk to them about doing some work on
developing a fee for assessment fees and system development fees (inaudible). I’ve
talked with Mr. Nichols a little bit about that, some of his ideas. The two gentlemen from
JUB who were here tonight, they have the most intimate knowledge of our system, how
to go about this. They’ve worked with John Tinselman, Boise City. I just have to turn it
over to them and let them run with it.
De Weerd: So, it's still a work in progress?
Watson: Yes, well, yes. I’m going to turn over all the work that I have done and haven't
been able to finalize. Give it to them so that they can finish it up and make a
recommendation because I’m not getting anywhere.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Bird: Can we get a time on it?
Watson: I need to get all of the stuff, including computer files to them so that they can
prepare a scope that computes both cost and (inaudible). I’ve told them that this is
imperative to get it done immediately. I told them this spring is when we want to have it
done to Council for approval. I didn’t have a specific month, March, April, May, I guess
is what I refer by spring.
Bird: I would like to see it implemented, Madam President by April at the soonest
because building should start picking up on that. You know in the month, I can't
remember if it was November or December, we had 111 building permits. We take it
even a 3 or $400.00 building permit. I don’t know what Boise’s is and add that up. It's a
nice chunk. Then we don’t have to worry about developers telling us where we’re going
to build our sewers. We can pay for it then they can pay us back. I would like to see it --.
I agree, Brad, let JUB run with it (inaudible).
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Watson: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Bird: Thank you Brad.
De Weerd: Tom, are you still awake back there? Can you give us any update on your
park impact fees?
Kuntz: Council. The sequence of events that need to happen is our action plan
contains our capitol improvement plan. I’ve met with the BCA and I meet with the Ad
County Realtors Association on the 29th
. We have our Public Hearing at Planning and
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 53
Zoning on the 7th
. If all goes well, I would like to bring it back to Council the fourth non-
land use meeting in February. I want to make sure everyone’s got a copy of the action
plan because we handed them out two or three weeks ago. If you don’t have one, it's
got a colored front copy and it's plastic. Anyway, so I hope to adopt the action plan the
fourth meeting of February which will include the capitol improvement plan. I would like
to bring the impact fee increases the first workshop in March and meet with again, the
developer’s Council, realtor’s association in March. Then come back to you the end of
March for adoption.
De Weerd: So, bring the fees at a March workshop?
Kuntz: Workshop to start with. Once our capitol improvement plan is approved, then I
can contact the Ada County and let them know that we’re ready to move ahead with
collecting, or setting up an ordinance that allows them to collect impact fees in our area
of impact.
De Weerd: Tom, do you want to put that action plan on a workshop next month because
I don’t think this Council has even discussed it? That way if you want to put it on the
fourth workshop --.
Kuntz: that’s a great idea.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Mayor Corrie.
Corrie: Safety services impact fee, the fire Department and police Department are still
working on their capitol improvement plans. No we don’t have a time schedule yet but I
do know that if I’m not mistaken Boise has (inaudible). The word that I’ve got is they
(inaudible). They’re still working on the capitol improvement plan which we must have
before we can (inaudible). I know that Joe (inaudible).
De Weerd: What is the time frame Kenny and Mike, on your capitol improvement plan?
Bowers: (inaudible) I would think probably within the month or so (inaudible). Boise City
did this whole thing for the fire Department and put them to it and they didn’t ever start
charging them. (inaudible). We’ve got to delve into it a little farther and see why or why
not their not doing that.
Bird: Madam President.
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Bill is there some challenges in court and stuff on safety impact fees being, that
you know of?
Nichols: Council Member Bird, I’m not aware of any court challenges to the public safety
impact fee. It's provided for in the state statute. I know Post Falls enacted a public
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 54
safety impact fee ordinance within the last year or so. That’s Jerry Mason’s place. So,
I’m not aware of any challenges to it. That doesn’t mean that there aren’t any but I
haven't heard --.
Bird: Boise has passed these but they haven't implemented it. I’m very, very shocked.
Councilman Nary can you --? I mean, (inaudible).
Nary: I would but I don’t have any knowledge as to why. I know we’ve added two
stations within the last year for the Boise, Whitney Fire District as part of the annexation
into the City. So, we’ve added those two stations already and we have been successful
in working through developers and getting property donated. I know that in their master
plan for fire, I think they have four more stations planned in the next ten years. I don’t
know the reason they haven't choose to do that.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Bird: That’s what --. You know it doesn’t scare but I’m questioning it. If Boise has got
these impact fees in place and their not implemented, why would they not be doing it?
Nichols: Councilman. I think what Kenny is saying is that what he got Boise Fire was
that they did a capitol improvement study to see what the fees would have to be. Maybe
that’s as far as it got and they didn’t go any further with it in terms of having an
ordinance --.
Bowers: Yes. I don’t think they went far enough to do an ordinance.
Bird: Oh, okay.
Bowers: I don’t think. Anyhow, the person that did it is the fire chief in Boise. He
(inaudible). We know they’re not charging.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Corrie: -- police aspect is being able to say that this area, we’re charging a fee for this
area in order to provide this service (inaudible). In Boise where they actually (inaudible)
here recently (inaudible).
De Weerd: Yes, I don’t think they have quite the need that fire does.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
De Weerd: Yes it does. How are you doing though, on your capitol improvement plan?
(inaudible discussion amongst staff)
De Weerd: A work in progress?
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 55
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
De Weerd: Kenny?
Bowers: Our next step is to get with Stacy and work out the fees and see what we can
come with.
De Weerd: Great. It sounds like you’re making good progress.
Bowers: I hope so. Thank you Kenny.
Bowers: Thank you.
De Weerd: Do you have anything else to add? Thanks.
Issue #8 Discussion of Cross-Deputization of Prosecutors with Boise City by Bill
Nichols
De Weerd: Okay. Issue No. 8, Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: This is a heads up, an informational item so that when I bring something to
you (inaudible). For a long time the City of Meridian and the City of Boise have
cooperated on prosecution of municipal offenses such as Boise police officer who lives
in Meridian and on his way to work cites somebody and maybe they’re inside the City
limits of Meridian and he cites them. The Boise police officer will issue the ticket and the
Boise prosecutor will prosecute the ticket. The same token if a Meridian police officer
issues a ticket and it's inside Boise city limits with a Meridian issues the ticket and
Meridian prosecutor prosecutes the case. There’s been some of that back and forth.
Plus we also have coverage issues where at times there may be a conflict case, Boise
City can't prosecute a particular case. So, we’ll take one of theirs and maybe a case we
can't prosecute because of some conflict and so they’ll take ours. Sometimes where
you have two defendants or you have a victim (inaudible). What (inaudible) the Boise
City Attorney has asked is for a formal resolution that would cross deputize the
respective City prosecutors to allow them to act as a prosecutor on that particular case
so there aren’t any jurisdictional challenges (inaudible). That’s what she has proposed. I
haven't got a draft of one yet but she’s going to have (inaudible).
De Weerd: Any questions?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Any comments?
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 56
Worley: (inaudible) in 98, this Council authorized the Police Departments to cross
deputize. So, every Boise police officer is also a Meridian police officer and every
Garden City police officer is also a Meridian officer and vice versa all around because
we travel into Boise. There’s a lot of Boise officers that live in Meridian and other than
just have a Meridian officer just drive by something (inaudible) because it's (inaudible).
But by not having the prosecutor’s cross-deputized, basically we have to sort out the
jurisdiction thing. A Meridian officer writes a ticket in Boise right now, then we have to
(inaudible) because (inaudible). Somebody in the Boise City attorney’s office is not use
to working with our people there’s a hold up. (inaudible)
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Issue #9 Discussion of City Seal / Logo by Tammy de Weerd
De Weerd: Okay, The City logo. The gal that has been working on this got back to me to
incorporate some different ideas on the logo. I didn’t necessarily like any of them. So, I
just got my little white out and took out that little park scene with the thing in the
background. That’s kind of what I came up with. (inaudible). We also tied the base into
your design. I’m not exactly (inaudible). I certainly thought I could do better than that.
Also, on the bottom one, if you like the idea that you had. I didn’t like that little –
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
De Weerd: Yes. I shrunk it so it was more like where it was before but the Mayor has it.
Sunk it so that it was more in the design rather than sticking up out of the flow.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
De Weerd: Yes. There was one idea. Then the other idea is down at the bottom of the
page. I just put hers and put it more in the flow of the design rather than sticking it up.
Bird: How well are these going to go on trucks?
De Weerd: Well, again, the second page is the simplified, or the line art and that would
be more your pens and your shirts.
Bird: do you think you can (inaudible).
De Weerd: But, even if on the cars, and the chief and I kind of talked about it. Even if
you kept the font and (inaudible) the oval that would maintain the integrity and carry the
theme through.
Bird: I kind of like this. Only I (inaudible) 1893.
De Weerd: Again, you can sink it more down there and have it.
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
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(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
De Weerd: Then just have the water tower?
Bird: Yes, that’s (inaudible).
De Weerd: So, Keith was just saying if you sunk it like I did on that --.
Bird: Bring it down like this.
De Weerd: Use your imagination.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
De Weerd: It still has since 1883 here, 1893. Then have the water tower without any
writing there.
McCandless: I would prefer that.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
De Weerd: Cherie?
McCandless: I was just wondering why you sunk it clear down here, it looks like a circle.
De Weerd: Well, again, I’m not an artist. I just didn’t like it sticking up out of –
McCandless: Well, the water tower does stick up though.
Nary: One looks a little like a knob. I guess the only thing --. I guess I would be a little
concerned with having two because you’re going to have one on the trucks and then
one on letterhead. I guess (inaudible). I mean, whether it's something like this line
drawing or something but it just seems like it's (inaudible) if you have two. I believe if we
sent this off to (inaudible).
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Nary: I like the design. I guess, I just conceptually think having two different ones that
are essentially are for the same thing might get a little confusing. Whether the font
transfers to trucks or things like that I don’t know. (inaudible). I don’t know it does kind
of look knobish. It's better, if you’re going to have it sticking up I guess having the
writing in it doesn’t make it look like there’s some extra. I actually didn’t think that was
bad in the way you incorporated it over here too. I guess we can get five different
opinions.
Bird: I was going to say.
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 58
McCandless: If I had my druthers, I’d use this one because it looks more like the water
tower.
Bird: You mean, leaving it here?
McCandless: this one.
Nary: The larger (inaudible).
Bird: The one Tammy took --. You took the park out. Didn’t you want to take the trees
out Tammy?
De Weerd: Yes.
Nary: Only because it seemed like the criticism before that we didn’t have it. So if you
make it even just a little thing. I don’t know if that’s going to satisfy folks. I like this.
McCandless: I do too. That’s better.
De Weerd: Probably if I gave it to her, it would probably look better than --.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Bird: Take the trees out?
Corrie: Well, just put a water tower here. (inaudible)
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Nary: I think we have to repaint it in a year or two.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
De Weerd: No, it's not going to be yellow. It's just going to be outlined.
Corrie: Why not yellow?
De Weerd: Because it increases the cost.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Corrie: It raises the cost?
De Weerd: Yes. I will bring back on --. I’d hate to say the 22nd
because we’re getting
kinds of full. I will at least bring you a drawing then.
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 59
Corrie: okay.
De Weerd: For future vote.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
De Weerd: Can you wait a couple more weeks? Just cross it out.
Corrie: Make him buy his own stationary.
De Weerd: I’ll talk to Darcy and if we can get it next week, I’ll let the Mayor know. Is that
okay, Mayor?
Corrie: That’s fine, yes. I just still like the yellow tower.
De Weerd: Moving on.
Issue #10 Discussion of Official Newspaper Status by Bill Nichols
De Weerd: Bill, on the official newspaper status.
Nichols: We had a request from the attorney for The Valley Times asking the City to
reestablish The Valley Times as it's official newspaper for publication of official notices.
They apparently satisfy the statutory requirement having coverage for seven
consecutive weeks as required by the Idaho code. If you wish to do that, then I need to
prepare an ordinance to present to you so that the Valley Times can become the City’s
official newspaper.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Nichols: 19th
of October of 99 we passed an ordinance designating the Statesman after
the predecessor to the Valley Times (inaudible).
McCandless: Madam President. I think it's a good idea.
Nary: Madam President. I wonder if (inaudible) had any input, any problems? I can't
see any but I don’t know since you’re the one that has to get notices published.
Berg: Mayor, Members of Council.
De Weerd: Would you please come over here so our City Clerk’s office can get you on
tape?
Berg: I thought I was yelling pretty good. Mayor and Members of the City Council. I do
not foresee any problems. We will be probably duplicating a couple notices to make
Meridian City Council Workshop
January 8, 2002
Page 60
sure they’re covered both ways because our notices require that this doesn’t end on a
specific day. There wouldn’t be any problem. Charging is by statute so there’s not any
difference what they charge from one paper or the other. (inaudible).
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Berg: Actually the deadline is a little bit easier to work with. (inaudible). Even though
they’re a weekly paper, we can get notices in up to Friday to get it in Tuesday’s edition.
This, we’re talking about is legal notices, requirements. That doesn’t stop us from doing
ads for bids or anything in the Statesman if we so desire. (inaudible)
De Weerd: Is there any comment? Frank would you like to add anything to this
conversation?
Thomason: No. But if you’ve got any questions (inaudible).
Nary: Madam President.
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Just one question. There isn't going to be any problem with timing of notices
(inaudible)? You know I think most of the requirements are a certain number of weeks.
(inaudible).
Berg: 15 days. Yes and actually our day for the Statesman is Friday. That’s when they
wanted (inaudible). It's a different day but (inaudible).
De Weerd: Council, do you all agree that the --? Well, we can't make any decisions and
I don’t know why.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
De Weerd: Is anyone opposed to our Counsel putting together an ordinance to address
this?
Bird: Go for it.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
De Weerd: Mayor?
Corrie: Fine.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Meridian City Council Workshop
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Page 61
De Weerd: Now, as far as, (inaudible) ordinance. Is that what we’re discussing? How
much public notice we need on this ordinance thing?
Nichols: No. My question was when can I get it done so that I can get it in front of you?
(inaudible).
Berg: We needed a little twist in there because we have to put the ordinance then we
have to publish it in the paper. Right? I was talking to him about having it ready by the
22nd
and I would publish it in the Statesman on Friday. Then we’re ready to go the 22nd
.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Nary: We’re amending the current City Ordinance to change from the Idaho Statesman
to the Valley Times (inaudible).
Nichols: The way I read the statute, this allows for the Council to suspend the rule
(inaudible).
Bird: We’ve never done a (inaudible).
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
De Weerd: Is this another January 22nd
item?
Nichols: I will do my best to get it done. If I can get it to the Clerk, if it's there by the
Thursday afternoon before that meeting then we’ll be on the agenda for the 22nd
.
De Weerd: So, possibly as a (inaudible)?
Nichols: With an effective date that coincides (inaudible).
Issue #12 Discussion of Future Topics
De Weerd: Okay. Since we’ve moved item 12 before item 11, does anyone have --? I’ve
shared with all the Council Members, our list of workshop topics, kind of outstanding
items, pending issues that are either under development or still need further
information. Is there anything other than what we’ve already added? Such as the water
and sewer fees, the Ten Mile interchange sewer study and the Parks action plan, which
we added today.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
De Weerd: And the tree USA ordinance. No additional items? Staff?
Nary: Other than the items we just discussed? (inaudible)
Meridian City Council Workshop
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Page 62
De Weerd: Yes. (inaudible). Okay. No further discussion?
Corrie: Yes. On the 15th
the photographer is going to be here to take a picture of the
Council, official picture.
De Weerd: I can't lose 20 pounds before then.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
McCandless: (inaudible) that drink, you can lose 10 pounds in one weekend.
Nary: Are we suppose to wear the (inaudible).
Bird: Frank took a good enough one of them.
McCandless: Good because I lost mine.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
De Weerd: Okay.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Corrie: Be here at 6:15. (inaudible)
De Weerd: 6:15? (inaudible). He can promise to take weight off me.
Bird: You’re not the only one. I need more than 20 off me. How about 60 or so?
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
De Weerd: Mr. Berg, did you have something?
Berg: Yes, if I could. I had a couple –
De Weerd: Will you please --?
Berg: A couple items of discussion with the Chamber of Commerce. Terri called me and
asked if I would ask the Council and the Mayor if they can be judges in the Chili Cook
Off on the 19th
. You need to be there at 2:00. (inaudible).
De Weerd: I think only if my husband can come with me.
Corrie: I think that’s forbidden now.
Bird: No, we did it last year.
Meridian City Council Workshop
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Page 63
Berg: (inaudible)
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
McCandless: Yes. My husband said how come Jan got in there last year?
De Weerd: Because they enjoyed him from the year before. He is so into this chili thing
that he cannot deny it.
Berg: Next item is the groundbreaking of the Chamber of Commerce remodel/
addition is the 15th
at 1:15. A couple of people are going to be involved with the actual
(inaudible). You’ll be getting invitations (inaudible). Then the third item is Jon Wardle. I
talked to him today and asked him to make himself available if the Council wanted to
have any workshop kind of workshop or meeting or planning session to discuss some of
the presentations that we brought up in the north area planning (inaudible).
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Berg: No, this is John.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Berg: Jon Wardle, of Wardle and Associates. (inaudible). Because he said it was a
new concept but they didn’t want to conflict with the Comprehensive Plan, have now
suggested that they would say that when this thing got through it would be far enough,
six months or so (inaudible). He wanted to make sure and get some feedback on what
the Council and Mayor thought. He felt there wasn’t any time there at that meeting.
(inaudible).
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Berg: His concern was making himself available for you to discuss with him about it
because he doesn’t think --. They’re pressing along and they don’t want to just throw in
left field if you want (inaudible).
De Weerd: Right.
Nichols: Madam President.
De Weerd: Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: Along those lines with that discussion, in terms of all of those things that they
had figured out, I didn’t hear anything from Mr. Wardle or the development community
(inaudible). (inaudible) as to what he thinks the free market is going to do even that’s
what the plan shows.
Meridian City Council Workshop
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(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Nichols: (inaudible) Mr. Turnball, of the Brighton Corporation told us at one point that
he had a subdivision that looked like they look like because that’s what people are
willing to buy and that’s what the market is driving. Mr. Johnson said the same thing in a
presentation to the Council. I think that’s a key part of this. Do they really think that this
type of concept will be marketable? (inaudible)
McCandless: exactly right. I’ve heard that too.
Nary: Madam President. (inaudible) some of what was discussed at the Planning and
Zoning Commission in regards to the Comprehensive Plan was different than that. I
have heard that as well. (inaudible) with incentives for some of these other things. The
people that were involved in some of those proposals for the Comprehensive Plan,
(inaudible) a participant. They were the ones that people will build that because we
allow it and provide incentives and all the other things that they were asking for. Those
type of things can happen. So, I think (inaudible).
De Weerd: Yes. When would you like to have that dialogue?
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor, I think you’re really trying to avoid a lot of issues here. You’re
being very free with this schedule.
Corrie: I have a meeting with the president so I have been ready to go with this.
Nary: That’s not until February 26th
. Is that too far away? Because the 12th
we have a
bunch of things here.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Bird: See, we don’t with them until March 4th
again.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Bird: Or you can just bring it to a workshop.
Berg: I don’t think we want to drag it too far because we are having a transportation
meeting and stuff (inaudible). (inaudible) the Council and Mayor does not want at all
(inaudible).
De Weerd: They’re having the open meeting (inaudible).
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Meridian City Council Workshop
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Page 65
De Weerd: What is the feeling of Council about that? The 15th
? Next week?
Corrie: I believe the 15th
is –
De Weerd: The 12th
?
Corrie: The 12th
, excuse me. The 12th
is a workshop. It probably would behoove us to
do that. (inaudible)
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. I would consider a motion to go into executive session.
McCandless: So moved.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
De Weerd: I don’t have a second?
Nary: (inaudible)
McCandless: I just said so moved. You can second.
Nary: Second.
De Weerd: Okay, roll call. Do I do the roll call?
Bird: The clerk does.
Corrie: It doesn’t make any difference who does it as long as --.
De Weerd: Mr. Clerk.
Berg: Madam President. Roll call vote.
Roll-call: De Weerd, aye; Nary, aye; McCandless, aye; Bird, aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Reconvened at 10:05 P.M.
De Weerd: Okay. Council is back from executive session at 10:05. No decisions were
made.
Bird: Madam President.
De Weerd: Yes.
Meridian City Council Workshop
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Page 66
Bird: I move that we come out of executive session.
McCandless: Second.
De Weerd: All those in favor say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Bird: I move that we adjourn.
McCandless: Second.
De Weerd: Any discussion?
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
De Weerd: All those in favor? Only two ayes?
Bird: Aye.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
De Weerd: Meeting is over at 10:08.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 10:08 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
APPROVED:
/ /
ROBERT D. CORRIE, MAYOR DATE APPROVED
WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., CITY CLERK