HomeMy WebLinkAbout2010 07-27Meridian City Council Meeting July 27 2010
A Council meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:00 p.m.,
Tuesday, July 27, 2010, by Mayor Tammy De Weerd.
Members Present: Mayor Tammy De Weerd, President David Zaremba, Charlie
Rountree, Keith Bird, and Brad Hoaglun.
Others Present: Ted Baird, Jaycee Holman, Pete Friedman, Steve Siddoway, Caleb
Hood, Warren Stewart, Jeff Lavey, Mike De St. Germain, Joe Silva, and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
X David Zaremba X Brad Hoaglun
X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
X Mayor Tammy De Weerd
De Weerd: Well, I will go ahead and call this meeting to order and welcome all of you
here joining us this evening. For the record, it is Tuesday, July 27th. It's 7:00 p.m. I will
ask you to start tonight's meeting with roll call attendance.
Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance
De Weerd: Item No. 2 is our Pledge of Allegiance. Tonight we will be lead in the
pledge by former city councilman Joe Borton. If you will all rise and join us in the
Pledge of Allegiance.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
De Weerd: Joe, usually I offer a City of Meridian pin for those that lead us in the
pledge. Would you like one?
Borton: Absolutely.
Bird: Have you ever seen a lawyer turn anything down.
Item 3: Community Invocation by Pastor Burton Roberts with Meridian
Gospel Tabernacle
De Weerd: Item No. 3 is our community invocation. Tonight we will led by Pastor
Burton Roberts with Meridian Gospel Tabernacle -- or retired. It's nice to see you here
this evening.
Roberts: It's always my privilege to be here, Madam Mayor, and it's a privilege to
continue to serve in this community
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July 27, 2010
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De Weerd: Thank you.
Roberts: Let us pray. Most gracious and kind Heavenly Father, we pause tonight to
invoke your presence at this meeting, asking again that our hearts and our minds will be
reminded of the wonders of your grace and your mercy in our lives. Cause your
presence to be sensed and known and felt here this night, releasing wisdom and
guidance and knowledge for our Mayor and the Council as they continue to serve us in
the best way that they know how. I ask that you would give them continuing health and
strength and the guidance that is needed. With thankful hearts we ask all these things
in Jesus wonderful and mighty name, amen.
Item 4; Adoption of the Agenda
De Weerd: Thank you, pastor, for being here. Item no. 4 is adoption of the agenda
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: A couple items on the agenda. Under Item 5-J -- I'm sorry. I. Staff has
requested to vacate that item. Under 5-J, that resolution is 10-733. 5-K is resolution
10-734. Under Item 8, just a note that Items A and B are not public hearings. Under
Item 9, Department Reports, following Item A, the dog park discussion by parks and
police, we want to add an A-2 and that is a discussion by Parks Department on movie
night. And that will move down the Finance Department report to -- actually, we are
going to -- and, then, we are going to move 9-B, the Finance Department report and
adoption of the FY-2010 amended budget, to 8-C, because this is an action item. As is
9-C, will become 8-D, because that is an action item. So, 9-B and C will become 8-C
and D, if you follow that. And, then, we will have a 9-A and A-2 and, then, so on. And
Executive Session (1)(f), I don't think there is any changes to that. So, with that,
Madam Mayor, I move adoption of the agenda.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda as amended. All those
in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 5: Consent Agenda
A. Approve Minutes of July 6, 2010 City Council Regular Meeting
B. Approve Minutes of July 13, 2010 City Council Workshop
Meeting
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July 27, 2010
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C. Request to Enter into Negotiations & Agreement with TRS
Range Services for Design of the Multi-Use Indoor Training
Facility Design
D. Approval of Utility License Agreement with Settlers Irrigation
District for Water Line Crossings of the Lemp Canal and North
Slough
E. Sewer & Water Main Easement for Bridgetower Crossing
Subdivision #15
F. Agreement for the Construction of the Bittercreek Lift Station
and Pipelines Project with Bodiford Construction for a
Not-To-Exceed Amount of $1,183,180.00 and Authorize a
Change Order for the Addition of Additive Alternative #2
(Property Owner Services) for $22,065.00
G. Amendment No. 2 for the Eskel Porter Contract for the Hansen
8 Implementation: Request to Amend the Completion Date
From the Original Completion Date of February 28, 2010 to
September 30, 2010 and to Approve the Reallocation Funds
Within the Original Agreement Dated October 28, 2009
H. Final Order Granting and Additional 18-Month Time Extension
for Approval: TE 10-016 Trilogy Subdivision by Conger
Management Group Located 4325 W. Chinden Boulevard:
Request for Approval of an Eighteen (18) Month Time
Extension to Obtain the City Engineer's Signature on the First
Final Plat
J. Resolution No. 10-733: A Resolution Vacating Three (3) 20' x
20' City of Meridian Water and Sewer Easements on Lots 1 and
2; Lot 2 and Lot 10, Block 2 Recorded with Gramercy
Subdivision No. 1, Located in the Northeast'/4 of Section 20,
Township 3 North, Range 1 East, Boise Meridian, City of
Meridian, Ada County, Idaho; and Providing an Effective Date
K. Resolution No. 10-734: A Resolution Vacating of a Portion of
the Public Access/Utility Easements on Lots 4, 5, and 7 Block
1 of the Courtyards at Ten Mile Subdivision
De Weerd: Item 5 is our Consent Agenda.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
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July 27, 2010
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Hoaglun: Under the Consent Agenda we have a request to vacate 5-I. So, that request
has been made. And also 5-J, resolution number 10-733 and 5-K is resolution number
10-734. And I would move adoption of the Consent Agenda and the Mayor to sign and
Clerk to attest.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and asecond --
Holman: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Holman: I'm sorry. Councilman Hoaglun, you moved to adopt the Consent Agenda and
we need to move to approve the Consent Agenda.
Hoaglun: Yes. When I said that it crossed my mind. I move to approve the Consent
Agenda, the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest. Thank you.
Zaremba: Second agrees.
De Weerd: Thank you. Madam Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, absent; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 6: Community Items/Presentations
A. Discussion Regarding Meridian Senior Center Lease at Kleiner
Memorial Park
De Weerd: Okay. Item 6 is our community presentations with a discussion regarding
the Meridian Senior Center lease. Are you introducing this, Ted?
Baird: Thank you, Madam Mayor. As Mayor and Council are aware, the legal
department has been working with the representatives from the senior center on a long-
term, no cost lease agreement -- or a dollar a year lease agreement for the ground upon
which the senior center is to be built in the soon to be constructed Julian Kleiner Park.
We have hammered out almost every issue, but there are two issues at which we are at
impasse and tonight is the opportunity for the senior center to present their position on
that, see if they can get the Council to see things their way and I think with that as sort
of a background I will throw it over to Joe Borton, who is representing the senior center
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and he can introduce those two issues, as well as representatives from the senior
center with us tonight.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Borton: Good evening. Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. My name
is Joe Borton, 4398 Redgrass Court in Meridian, Idaho. Ted gave a good recap of
what's transpired. I know the Council is well aware of what's taken place with the senior
center, Kleiner trust, and the city over the last several many months. I don't necessarily
like the word impasse. I think we have -- what we have done is worked really well and
collaboratively with the senior center, its advisory board, and the city's legal department
to craft a lease which is extremely comprehensive and really has an eye towards
resolving the issues that none of the members of the senior board today and none of
you present here will have to deal with. But we are trying to address issues to make
this a successful long-term relationship. That's the intent of the Kleiner Trust, it's the
intent of the city, and clearly the intent of the senior center to make this facility
successful for many generations. In that regard, what we have done is completed a
lease agreement that you probably already have that outlines and addresses the rights
and responsibilities of the parties for generations to come and I think it does so in a
really thorough manner and I appreciate working with Ted on that. What's left to
discuss brings us back to where we started was the city's desire, the trust's desire and
the senior center's desire to have a facility be sustainable long term. One of the things
that the advisory board has done for many months -- well, before I was even involved, is
try to make sure that they can be financially viable long term, to run the proformas and
make sure their numbers make sense from an operations perspective, understand their
revenue streams, because one of the components, as you know, within this lease that
should the senior center ever be unable to operate it for whatever reason that they
forfeit the building and they take that responsibility towards the members extremely
seriously and in that regard there is two provisions that we have discussed, the advisory
board has requested be included, and we wanted to discuss with you here today, we
think that might have been -- might be the best way to see if really there is an impasse.
So, if I can hand these to the clerk.
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Borton: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, what you're being handed are two of
the provisions that we have discussed back and forth. I will briefly introduce them and,
then, introduce you to Brent Jones, who is president here. He's on the advisory board
and has worked very hard in not only the background due diligence to support these
types of requests, but also to help explain their reasoning. Briefly I'll speak as you read.
5.6. The language that's not in yellow is already included in the lease and we went
through and discussed and went back and forth with that and the reasons why that
should be included or not. The highlighted portion in the yellow of 5.6 is what the senior
center has asked to include. And the issue, Madam Mayor and Members of the
Council, is over the course of 50 years or perhaps a hundred years, the senior center is
solely responsible for all capital facility replacements and repairs. Roofs. AC. Heating.
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Cooling. Et cetera. And while we are going to budget for reserve and repair, those
reserve and repair requirements, things may happen where they may need to complete
a capital improvement in short order and they might need to provide some short-term
financing. Extremely common in every other commercial capacity. So, we discussed
this at length and the senior center is well aware of the city's concern and the city's
issue with perhaps taking a structure that has an encumbrance on it. We thought this to
be a middle ground. Not an issue for this Council. In fact, this Council and Mayor will
probably never have to decide. It's going to be a brand new building. But what we
would like to preserve is the opportunity 20, 30, 40 years down the road for the senior
center should such a circumstance arise, present that request to the, then, sitting Mayor
and Council and if it's warranted those decision makers can act accordingly. So, I don't
think it's -- it's not creating any actual right on the center. It merely affords them an
opportunity at a later time. 6.13, the second item, which Brent Jones will discuss in a
little more detail, goes also back to the due diligence that the senior center advisory
board and its board of directors has been doing to insure the financial viability of its
operation. It is abundantly clear to all that that's what everyone wants to have happen.
We want the center there for many generations. The center, then, rightfully spent time
looking at its own revenue sources past, trying to analyze how that might change in the
future. They are very excited, as everyone is, with the expected growth in membership
and growth in services this new location will provide and this new facility will provide.
But what they are trying to do is capture in a very small limited sense what is very
common in other commercial context, where a tenant will request for certain specific
uses a limitation. So, what we tried to carve into this language is really as narrow as
you can, so there is no restriction on any competing uses in the park, in the band shell,
in any area other than the -- the dirt lot that was at one point going to be a library. If
there were to be a structure built on that specific property, then, those are three
fundamental financing components of the senior center's liability they'd like to maintain
and, again, Brent will discuss more of the process of how they got here. That -- I don't
think the city at this point clearly hasn't envisioned providing those services, probably
very remote if ever on at least two of them. We have discussed at length the catering
kitchen, might be more difficult language of the three to carve out and try and craft the
senior center's unique use and how that might impact what the city may do in the future.
don't think that issue arises with the thrift shop use and the licensed bingo gaming,
which, quite frankly, both are important parts of the revenue stream. So, with that, if it's
okay, Madam Mayor, I'd introduce Brent Jones of the advisory board, to come forward,
provide a little brief background of how we got to these final two provisions and, quite
frankly, the resolution of these gets the least completed and is signed and they can
move on and be excited about breaking ground.
De Weerd: Very good.
Borton: Any questions? Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Jones: Hello.
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De Weerd: Good evening.
Jones: My name is Brent Jones. I reside at 3690 North Colbourne Way in Meridian.
Might make a note. My father-in-law was born in Meridian downtown 90 years ago.
Pretty awesome. I joined the senior center advisory board several years ago and my
background is in assisted living. I work for the Cottages and I do all of the marketing for
all nine communities that we have open, so I have some pretty good exposure to
seniors. I am one and I work with them every day. And one of the things that I have
really been focused on in this, from my perspective, is anticipation and that's not the
seniors that are going to the center today, but the seniors that are going to be going
tomorrow and I'm going to probably be one of those in maybe 15, 20 years or something
like that, that I will be attending the senior center. My expectation is that the age group
is going to drop significantly. You're going to see people in there a lot younger than
they are now and the membership, because of the facility itself, is going to grow vastly.
think my generation and some people that are ahead of me, are looking at life a little
bit differently and at retirement a little bit differently and that's one of the challenges of
my job with the Cottage that is trying to figure out, okay, we are doing a great job of
taking care of seniors today, but what are the seniors going to look like in the future?
And my annotation is that activity is going to be critical and you're going to have to
entertain -- for a lack of better words, you're going to have to entertain the next
generation and I think the expectations are going to be very high and that's why one of
the things we did is we looked at it and we said, all right, with that in mind what do we
think needs to be in place and so what we are looking to do -- we are not looking to
compete with anybody, we just want to protect this for the future and, like Joe said, it's
going to be somebody else making decisions down the road, five, ten, 15, 20, 25, 50
years out there dealing with this. But such things as bingo, if you ever been around
seniors and bingo, I'll tell you what, you better not get in the way, they will run you down.
I have been kicked out of meeting rooms at the Cottage, just because it was time for
bingo. You're out of here. So, something like that. We want to make sure that all kinds
of activities, including bingo, are protected and there is not some facility that comes in
next door that has the ability to detract from the senior center, because that -- I
anticipate that will be a high point going forward. I don't see that changes at all with
coming generations. There might be other games in addition to that, there might be
card games and some other things as well. The other thing that I think is really
important is to protect the sanctity of the thrift shop. It's an important fundraiser for the
senior center. It's a great way to give some people something to do during the day as
well in staffing the thrift shop. I know a couple years ago when my mom passed away
didn't know what to do with some of the things she had, so I donated it all to the senior
center thinking that generation would be really happy to see some sweaters that I know
were worth a lot, but what am I going to do with them? So, I think that's really important
to protect that as well. And, then, probably the thing that I -- I really see changing and
the biggest difference between the current center and the new one -- and all you have
to do is look at it -- is the usage I think will go up significantly. You're going to see a lot
of people wanting to use it for events. I can see weddings. I can see birthdays. I can
see all kinds of things going on there and what a fantastic venue for that to take place,
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what a great location in the city and it's pretty unique. But in order to do that I think we
really need to make sure that we are protecting the catering piece of that and make sure
that the senior center is able to charge for the kitchen and charge for the venue itself
and not be put out of business, if you will, by somebody else that might come in later
with nobody's decision that's in this room right now. So, those are kind of the three
areas that the advisory board has looked at and that we are really passionate about.
That's the -- the activities, including the bingo, the thrift shop, and the catering piece of it
for the venues, we want to make sure that's protected for people down the road when
they are able to make those decisions. Do you have any questions at all forme?
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Bird: Not at this time.
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor, I just want to find out on -- when we talk about a catering
kitchen and you will have a facility with a kitchen that you can do catering, people can
rent the facility if they have a wedding in the park, but when we talk about catering
kitchen, maybe this is a question for Joe, because it's --
Jones: Yes.
Hoaglun: -- looking at that legal definition. You don't envision if someone has an
outdoor wedding in the park and they are getting married and they want to have
someone cater that outside, come in, and they set up tables and chairs somewhere in
the park, it's not a kitchen, it's not built --
Jones: It's my understanding that would not be impacted. That's not --
Hoaglun: Okay. I just want to be sure we were talking about two different things there,
so --okay. Thank you.
Jones: All right. Thank you very much. Appreciate it.
De Weerd: Thank you. Were there any other comments?
Duffy: Thank you, Madam Mayor and the Council. I'm Beverly Duffy and I'm the
treasurer of the senior center and I live at 1821 South Hidden Lane, Boise, Idaho. So,
I'm kind of sneaking in under the wire. I became involved this year. And I am a young
senior and I am looking forward to the opportunities that I see ahead of us in this new
facility, because there will be younger people being involved participating in things we
can't imagine at this point, because we are not there yet. So, we want to make a place
where people want to be a part of and that they will come and have new relationships
and enter into all kinds of activities, learning the computer or playing with the computer,
we have pool exercise -- big exercise classes and painting and all these things that are
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going on and so we also want the community to be a part of our senior center, because
we don't want to be over here by ourselves and the community over here. Come and
join us in this wonderful opportunity, because we are located is the new center of the
Treasure Valley. So, we will pull from the entire Treasure Valley to this center and it will
be a magnificent addition to what Meridian has to offer this area. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, Beverly. By the way, we agree with you. Any other comments?
Joe, did you want anyone to comment on 5.6?
Borton: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Joe Borton. I don't think we need
anybody -- we will have anybody to come up to speak specifically to that.
De Weerd: Okay.
Borton: I just think we are -- with this discussion to get some guidance, so legal counsel
on both sides can get that part wrapped up on those remaining issues.
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Bird.
Bird: Joe --
De Weerd: And Mr. Bird? Mr. Bird, for the record, Mr. Rountree has joined the Council
meeting and I apologize for interrupting you, Mr. Bird.
Bird: That's no problem. Has these articles -- these -- both these articles been
discussed with the trustees of the Kleiner -- with Eldon or Mike Huter or any of those
guys, that you know of?
Borton: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilman Bird, not directly by me.
It's my understanding the specific language has not. The ideas behind them I believe
have through legal counsel, through I believe Mrs. Graham from Parametrics may have
been a part of those and Mrs. Hill, the director of the senior center.
Bird: Okay.
Baird: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I did attend a board meeting of the
Kleiner Trust and we wanted to get their input on these issues, because, ultimately, they
are the donor of both the land to the city with the anticipation of the city being the
landlord and, of course, of the facility, the building to the senior center. And with regard
to mortgaging the building, the Kleiner Trust's position was is that they are donating
them a building that's free and clear. and it was their expectation that it would remain
free and clear in perpetuity. So, they gave very clear guidance to -- to the city on what
their expectations are in that regard. With regard to the second item, it was their
opinion voiced through Mike Huter, member of the board, that they are allowing the
senior center to do anything that's permissible within their building, but they weren't
interested in restricting the activities of others outside the walls of their building. So,
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that was the information that they gave to us. I think if -- if the city felt strongly about it
we could have further discussions with them on it, but we thought it was important to
bring that to their attention, at least to get their input, since they are the current owners
of the property and the donors.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I just want to raise an issue, I'd like the input of Joe and Ted on this, and --
and that's looking down the road. I think the senior center, as has been mentioned, is
going to be wildly successful. It's great for Meridian seniors, great for our community,
and looking down the road there might even be a need to expand this facility and as I
think about that, whether it's ten years, 20 years, whatever, how is that going to be done
in -- from a financing method and is this something that we have to think about, because
there is going to be other things down the road -- more than replacing a roof, maybe it's
expanding, I mean is that going to be up to the city? Is that going to be up to the senior
center? How do they go about doing that? Is it all cash? You know, are we -- are
putting a mechanism in place in this lease or are we going to have to go back to fix
things later on if we reach that point? So, just -- since this is the discussion, I'd like to
hear your thoughts on that.
Borton: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilman Hoaglun, I think that's a
great question. I think we have addressed the vast majority of those issues within this
lease. For better or for worse it describes the specific footprint that the senior center
has, so expansions beyond that, were they to add a room or space, would require
coming back to the city, quite frankly, and leasing additional dirt, regardless of how they
could, then, finance that. As it presently sits the senior center would, then, have to
come out of pocket all cash to do that. That maybe one circumstance -- that's a good
example, quite frankly, of the circumstance in 20, 30 years where they might want to
come back and say we want to revisit and finance this addition and here is why and
allow that Council under those specific circumstances to give it a yea or nay. I don't
think anyone in this room could answer that. It's hard. Ted and Ihave -- you know, we
can run circles trying to come up with scenarios where that might exist, but what we are
trying to capture, again, with this provision is just to afford them the future opportunity to
come address it. I don't think you can account for it in this lease -- for a lease of that
duration with any specificity.
Hoaglun: Okay.
Baird: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Hoaglun, that's been
my experience through my work with the city of Boise, with the facilities that are in Julia
Davis Park. The art museum, historical society, those all started out as smaller
structures than what you see today and every time that they were going to embark on a
major expansion they'd come back to rewrite the lease and it would usually include an
extension of the terms of the lease to allow them to recapture their additional
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investment. For example, in those leases they have that same restriction that they --
the building is not to be encumbered with mortgages. From a legal perspective the city
isn't allowed to mortgage its property and because we are the ultimate owner or the
reverter -- the property would come back to the city if it was ever abandoned by the
senior center, that was another reason why your legal counsel was advising against the
mortgage provision. That isn't to prevent future councils from changing the position if
the law changes, but the whole approach from our perspective is you can't anticipate
what's going to happen in the future, so leave open the opportunity to renegotiate and
rewrite the lease down the road.
Borton: I apologize, Madam Mayor. To dove tail on that. One of the areas that comes
up in other commercial leases that we are seeing a lot of today and is implicated by the
financing issue today, is an end user who needs a short term financing or line of credit
and oftentimes lenders -- I know in this market and it will probably happen again --
require security in that only the cash and receivables, but your firstborn and your
structure, quite frankly. So, you could have a scenario with the senior center with cash
reserves of 300,000 dollars and needing a line of credit of 30,000 dollars and the lender
very well might require security in the real property -- in the structure. Not the dirt itself.
Merely because that's the burdensome financing tool, when, in fact, they are adequately
secured in the cash reserves. Those unique scenarios which may come up are what
we are just trying to preserve the right to address this Council. Without this Council or a
future Council having any obligation -- correct me if I'm wrong, Ted, but there is no
obligation at all upon .any Council or Mayor to do anything and allow any encumbrance
by what we are requesting here.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: My question is directed as a -- under these scenarios and way down in the
future, what is easier to administer legally? I personally don't have a problem adding a
phrase that would say if a future Council had to be consulted with a further explanation
that the Kleiner Trust is not in favor of that, that makes that decision more difficult for
me. But the mechanics of -- let's say it's 30 years from now and there is an expansion
or some other thing that the senior center needs to do, is it -- would it be easier, then, to
have this phrase in here that says they have to bring it to City Councilor the alternate
that hearing from our legal counsel is that the whole lease has to be renegotiated. Is
that really preferable?
Baird: Members of the Council, Madam Mayor, Council Member Zaremba, the proposal
as drafted certainly makes it easier, you don't have to rewrite the whole lease, you could
just pass a motion or resolution that says pursuant to that term of the lease we are
approving whatever it is the future proposal happens to be. If you leave this out it does
require a lease addendum. Either one is an action of the Council, so it's really at your
discretion on how to direct us to draft it. But it's informal. It would make it an informal
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process as proposed in 5.6 and maybe even Mr. Borton has some opinions on that as
well.
Borton: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council -- thank you, Ted. I think it's -- I think
it's a greater provision -- preferred provision now. I think it still requires the formality of
coming back. It's an open formal action of a future Council to approve whatever it is
and that future request would need to be specified and approved by that -- those
elected officials at that time. So, it's informal only in the sense that what we don't want
to have happen is exclude that and, then, have a request to come back and reopen the
lease. We are knee deep in those on many instances and those bog down on -- on a
myriad of issues and, quite frankly, strain relationships and create problems where they
are not needed. When you have got an easier provision before you, which just says,
hey, you can't do anything, period -- you want to do anything, you come and get our
approval first. Until we all say -- give it the thumbs up, can't do diddly. Inartful way
was trying to describe that one sentence and I could make that sentence a paragraph
and we could probably make it a page, but we trying to --
De Weerd: I thought it was vice-versa. He doesn't get paid by the word.
Bird: Yeah. He don't get paid by the word. You do.
Borton: Fair enough. I think, quite frankly, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I
think if there is an issue in this -- in both of these provisions that we would ask, unless
you're fine with them all, I think we'd ask your approval and direction to legal staff to
incorporate this language into a final lease, which still needs to come back to Council for
approval, with the caveat that perhaps we spend some specific time in trying to carve
out and articulate the key components better. Maybe give Council a little better flavor of
that might be a bigger use and more unique use that we can create some language
which gives the Council and Mayor some better comfortable level. With regard to the
other components, they are relatively simpler to define, the language is much easier.
So, if that's one area that we are comfortable going back, incorporating that, some new
language into a lease and bringing that back as a whole.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I was separating the two issues and so I will make a comment on this issue
now that we are there. Again, the deference to the Kleiner Trust not wanting to have
any encumbrance on the other properties, I can understand that. If it were okay to put
in this kind of a limiting -- it would be fine with me if there were no other thrift shop in the
park and no other licensed bingo or gaming in the park, but among the things that have
been discussed for the --.for the property that formally had a library on it, have been a
community center or other things -- now, that may not be where it's going to go, but it
just seems to me to preclude having a facility there that might have a catering kitchen is
premature to me. I don't have any struggle with the thrift shop or the bingo, but I don't
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2010
Page 13 of 53
think we can limit neighboring building to not having a -- I don't know what the thought of
the rest of the Council is, maybe you don't want to put any of these limits in, but my
opinion would be that I would not support limiting the catering kitchen.
De Weerd: Any other comments from Council?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: That last item, the thrift shop, licensed bingo gaming and the catering kitchen, I
would eliminate without prior approval of the tenant. I can't believe that anybody within
the city would want to put a community center one quarter of mile from our impact area.
That would be like us taking the City Hall and putting it on Eagle Road.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor, I have a question for Joe. I want to talk about the very last
sentence, talking about parks and communicate with each other on effort to minimize
conflicts with events taking place in the adjacent public park. I had a thought here that
related to gaming services. Let's say they had a concert in the park and I'm going to go
two directions on this. One is a concert in that park and let's say that the senior center
has also a music event scheduled. Is that considered a conflict?
Borton: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilman Hoaglun, no, not a legal
conflict. It would -- neither use would be precluded. I think, really, what we are trying to
do is craft language which just -- let's just continue the cooperative relationship and
make sure these two groups are always talking and at a park, you got a concert coming
out, an event --
Hoaglun: I understand that. Now, what if that concert in the park is sponsored by the
Idaho Lottery and they are giving away lottery tickets? Now, that's a gaming service, do
you see conflict there? And I'm really parsing this, but that's what lawyers do and I'm
not a lawyer, but -- I haven't even played one on TV, but, you know, you try to think
about these things and say, okay, let's see what we can -- make sure we have this
hammered out and avoid future --future issues, so --
Borton: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilman Hoaglun, it's not a
conflict. It's not a conflict in the legal sense and it's not a conflict in the spirit of the
agreement, quite frankly. I don't think there is any issue at all that arises until there is a
structure next door and that structure gets a gaming license and provides bingo and
gaming services for profit, quite frankly. And when I make reference to the spirit of the
agreement, the only reason that this issue comes up is because that's a unique specific
revenue source that the senior center is trying to preserve. Lottery tickets, things in the
park of that nature, that's not a service that competes directly with the senior center, so
it's not a legal conflict for sure and nor is it one in spirit.
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2010
Page 14 of 53
Hoaglun: So, you won't be coming forward anytime soon, Madam Mayor, Joe, to
represent a tribe to put in a gaming center next door and tell the city we have a new
source of revenue; is that right?
Borton: Absolutely not.
Hoaglun: Good. Thank you.
Borton: Definitely not. That's a good question.
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I apologize for having to tend to Valley Regional Transit
business and missed part of this. But I haven't had an opportunity to read these
particular clauses for the lease. I would have a question on clause 5.6 and not
necessarily a question, but I think somewhere in the preamble or in the definitions that
landlord be defined and be very specific who the landlord is. In the second paragraph
have a problem on the fifth line where it talks about landlord's property adjacent to and,
then, the bringing of communicating on adjacent public park in the last sentence. So, to
me one could stretch that adjacent in the first regard as adjacent public park in the last
regard and I don't think that's the intent. I think that needs to be cleared up and defined
and I would suggest that if, in fact, this is what you want to do and that's the language
you want to put, that it reads something to the effect that -- and this would be on the fifth
line -- which would compete with the following three fundraising activities of the senior
center, thrift shop, licensed bingo, or -- and/or catering kitchen. Period. Those would
be my suggestions and at least for the next generation that may have to deal with this,
the more specificity we have here, even though I know that you lawyers like to work in
generalities, so you can make the law later on, that would help me, Joe, and I think you
can do that.
Borton: I think, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilman Rountree, I think
you hit one issue right on head. The definition of adjacent -- and perhaps we even put a
footprint exhibit that shows on -- in this little pocket of dirt is where those restrictions
apply. Because we all know what we mean is that area where a building could be built.
Nowhere else. Just to make sure we are crystal clear right now that those lines are
drawn. I think we can do that.
De Weerd: Well, Council, I think the clarification of these three different fundraising
activities has answered some of the concern, maybe, with park uses versus what
possibly could go next door and I am -- I'm comfortable with it. I think the trust is looking
in terms of -- I know the goal. is not limiting what might be possible in the park and, you
know, if you want to think pie in the sky, because of the central location of this park, let's
say Center Cal came in and said we would donate towards a performing arts center to
go on that pad, that would be a windfall for this community and west Ada County not
always having to go into Boise for that kind of venue. Could they work with the senior
center and the catering type of thing or if they had concessions would that conflict.
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2010
Page 15 of 53
think the definition as Councilman Hoaglun suggested, is going to be important to -- to
some of those considerations. I guess what this Council doesn't want to do is limit a
future Council with the possibilities in the spirit of Mr. Kleiner's desire to encourage more
of that memorial giving and you never know what might -- what might be generated or
even with this kind of a generous gift what others might step up to. So, again, some of
the definitions would be -- would be important. On the 5.6, I think that if there is the
strong feeling from the trust that this not be included, we need to have a conversation
with the trust if this is to be considered. I agree the prior approval of the landlord does
give any future councils the ability to consider or not, but if there is some concern from
the trust, I think we owe them the discussion to -- to whether to consider this or not. So,
just my two cents. And with inflation it might be even five.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I'm still not convinced that a catering kitchen should be excluded from the
neighboring property. Would I have permission to put our parks and recreation director
on the spot and ask his opinion?
De Weerd: Sure. You can ask anything you want. Mr. Siddoway.
Siddoway: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilman Zaremba.
Regarding the catering kitchen, I'm trying to think of what uses might go in there with a
catering kitchen short of an event type center. I agree that it's in the best interest of the
city to have a successful senior center and I understand that their business model is
based on their ability to, you know, rent out their facility for events, including their
catering -- including their catering kitchen. I don't have a strong negative reaction to
that. I did have a strong reaction to previous language that included restriction on any
reservations for events of any kind and that posed a problem for me. If there were
general agreement that these three specific services could be restricted in light of our
previous conversation with the trust, I would think that Ted and/or I take it back to them
and discuss that, because they were also reacting to the previous language that
included a restriction on events when we discussed it. This -- this language is much
more focused, much more narrow, and I certainly have no problem with the thrift shop
restriction, the licensed bingo or gaming services restriction and the catering kitchen, as
long as it does not preclude concessions, as long as it does not preclude someone
having a birthday party and bringing, you know, catered food to it, I wouldn't have a
problem with the actual physical kitchen restriction, so --
De Weerd: Thank you.
Siddoway: Thanks.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2010
Page 16 of 53
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: My suggestion -- and I agree with what's been said, that I think we need to have
Ted and their representative Mr. Borton meet with the -- with the trust and go over these
two changed languages and get it worked out. I think that's only proper seeing how it's
-- we are spending his money -- their money. I think that would be only be right and
they can bring it back to us in some kind of form.
De Weerd: And I guess, Mr. Baird, I think that if it's -- if this Council is comfortable with
the highlighted piece in 5.6 without the prior approval of the landlord, knowing that it
would give the city that ability and not limit future Councils, perhaps that conversation
could shed some light if there is a comfort with the Council on that. I guess I don't have
a sense quite yet as to what the thoughts are, other than wanting to adhere to the trust's
point of view on that one.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: If the trust agreed, I could certainly be comfortable with it, but I agree with
Councilman Rountree that landlord needs to be defined.
Baird: And, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, landlord is defined as the City of
Meridian. Your lease is drafted that it doesn't take effect until the property is donated to
the city and the senior center is occupied by the seniors. So, it sort of springs into
being. We sign it now, it has a signing date of whenever we execute it. We'd like to get
it executed, obviously, before they break ground, so we will know what the terms are
going to be when it's completed. But, yeah, we are the landlord. I want to thank
everybody for giving some direction. You have given us some ideas to hone some of
the language. We are going back to the trust with a more focused request, so I think
that's a great way to proceed. Appreciate the direction.
Hoaglun: And I think just to comment, Madam Mayor -- and I'm good with that 5.6, let's
check with the trust. It's something I can live with if they can live with it. And I really
think the senior center -- it's going to take off and there won't be any building next to it
for some time. I mean you look at the economy and the way things are, the senior
center is going to be well established, they are going to have a market, they are going to
-- they are going to do very well. I'm just optimistic about that and I wish them well. So,
whatever we can agree on that, but I think down the road this might be something we
don't have to worry about, because they will have establish themselves, whatever
comes along five, ten, 15 years down the road, they are moving forward and they are
going to have a name for themselves and it's the place to be, so I think that's a good
thing.
De Weerd: Thank you to this senior center. I think you have come a long way and we
appreciate your tenacity and sticking with it and finding language that is -- is considerate
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2010
Page 17 of 53
of both your needs and those of the city and you can see that in what you have brought
here tonight. So, thank you so much and thank you, Joe. We will look forward to
hearing from Mr. Baird what you all bring back. Okay. Thank you.
Item 7: Items Moved From Consent Agenda
De Weerd: Okay. There were no items moved from the Consent Agenda.
Item 8: Action Items
A. FP 10-004 Spurwing Greens by Lion Land, LLC Located
Approximately 1/4 Mile North of Chinden Boulevard, West of
Spurwing Subdivision: Request for Final Plat Approval for Two
(2) Residential Building Lots and Two (2) Common Lots on
Approximately 2.13 Acres in an R-2 Zoning District
De Weerd: So, we will move to Item 8-A and -- on FP 10-004 and ask for staff
comments at this time.
Friedman: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. This is a final plat
application for two buildings lots on approximately 2.3 acres of land. While it's called
Spurwing Green, the property is actually located within what was known as the Jayker
Subdivision. We were with you recently with a development agreement amendment for
the Tree Farm to allow the development of an amenity which would be a tennis facility
that spans both Spurwing and the Tree Farm for the Jayker Subdivision. At that time
the Council did approve the development agreement amendment. The applicants have
proceeded with beginning the construction of that with the conditions of the property
development was -- the platting had to begin within two years, so this is a follow up to
that and primarily it's to create the common lots for the tennis court and two residential
lots, so that we can actually facilitate the public road access to -- to the tennis court
facility. Staff has reviewed it and found that it substantially complies with the conditions
of preliminary plat approval, albeit it's a fairly small division, this will be followed along in
the near future with a bunch of larger ones. We have a staff report with our
recommended conditions of approval, however, it was brought to my attention this
evening that some new information has come to light since the staff report was
transmitted to both Council and the applicant and it has to do with some Public Works
issues. So, I'm going to turn it over to Warren Stewart at this point to articulate what
that concern is. It doesn't change our recommendation as far as the approval goes, but
it may have the result of a recommended additional condition.
Stewart: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, although Public Works doesn't have
any concerns with the overall development or the utilities services that are going to be
extended, our one concern that we do have that we think you may want to consider is
the fact that the existing Jayker Subdivision, which will provide the sewer service to this
facility, has some significant warranty issues in that sewer system. So, one of the
things that we think might be prudent and would propose that you might consider is
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2010
Page 18 of 53
some sort of an additional condition that would preclude the actual physical connection
of the service of the bathrooms or home until those warranty issues are corrected. Feel
like it might -- you know, it would be not advisable for me to recommend to you that we
continue to add additional services and effluent to that system until it's fixed, so just
wanted to make sure that you knew that and you had that for your consideration.
Friedman: Madam Mayor, Council Members, while this isn't a public hearing, it is a
public meeting. The applicant is here and this regrettably is the first time he has heard
this information, so it might be -- if it's the Council's pleasure, to entertain his comments
before you make a decision on this.
De Weerd: That certainly was my intent.
Blackstead: Thank you. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, my name is Rod
Blackstead, I'm a representative of Spurwing Greens, LLC. My address is 11060
West Executive, Boise, Idaho. Yes, we -- we were asked to bring you a plat for this
common area to make sure we have a public road to it. You give us 24 months to do
that and we have kind of moved that schedule up. I think that was just three months
ago you asked us to do that, so we are kind of moving forward quickly involving us in
this project and trying to revitalize it. We agree with the staffs report, but as they
pointed out, this sewer issue that was brought tonight is kind of gotten blindsided. We
weren't prepared for that, but it does kind of open the door to a couple questions that
may ask and Idon't -- again, I don't know if it's the right time to discuss this or not, but
we got involved in this project almost a year ago and we have not been notified of any
sewer issues on this formally. We are just kind of feeling different things about it. The
warranty, as far as we could see, expired on February 17th. Without any notification to
the owners, the developers, past owners of this project, past developer, it somehow has
recently within the last week or two denied building permits. Kind of a tough time to be
denying building permits. We have got builders finally lined up to start building in this
project and it kind of blind sided us to -- we got -- received one building permit, went in
for others, and couldn't -- got stopped. So, I guess I ask you tonight for a couple of
things. One is I'd like to ask you to approve this final plat as is. I'd like to also ask you,
if it's appropriate tonight, to ask you to grant building permits for all lots in this project
and if you need some leverage, if you will, maybe perhaps tie occupancy permits, you
know, maybe restrict those until the sewer issue is resolved. But I'd really like to ask
you tonight to lift this ban on building permits, so we can start moving forward. It takes,
you know, 60, 90 days to complete a home and that should give everyone time to have.
meetings and try to clear up this -- this issue that has come before us. And I guess the
other direction I'd like to have is what process do I need to take to -- to get the right
parties together to resolve this warranty issue.
De Weerd: Thank you, Rod. And those -- those wheels are in motion. The Public
Works director has called Mr. Turnbull and, hopefully, a meeting will commence in the
next day or two, so that all parties can be at the table and discuss that.
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2010
Page 19 of 53
Blackstead: Okay. Good. And do you have some thoughts on the granting building
permits now, without perhaps giving us an occupancy permit until this is resolved?
De Weerd: I believe that he is having that conversation, too. As I understand it, those
are Parade of Homes --
Blackstead: Fall Collection.
De Weerd: Fall Collection homes and I think staff discussed that, so he did try and get
ahold of them. They had already left for the day and so should be touching base with
them in the morning.
Blackstead: Thank you.
Hoaglun: And, Madam Mayor, that was a question I wanted to ask Warren. When I
was listening to him I think he used the words no physical connection. Can you clarify
that, Warren?
Stewart: Yeah. This is kind of what's going on. There have been some discussions
take place and we are exploring various different avenues that we could utilize to move
forward with this and you're correct, Madam Mayor, there have been some discussions,
we have had discussion in the Public Works Department about some various different
scenarios. What we need to do is solidify which one of those scenarios seems to make
the most sense for moving forward. Physical connection would be -- you know, we
discussed one of the options, perhaps, would- be to allow building permits, but would not
allow the actual sewer service to be connected to the main line until the deficiencies
were corrected. That's just an option. There are other issues with regards to bonding
and other things that could be done that would allow this process to move forward and
we are exploring those various avenues. So, that's the discussions that are taking place
and, hopefully, we can find a solution that's agreeable with everybody. The thing that is
concerning to us is we have a situation out there where there are warranty issues with
the existing sewer service. We are trying to get those warranty issues address and
corrected and we are trying to do that before we exaggerate that problem by adding
additional services to that sewer line.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Is it a good suggestion to tie that completion to the occupancy permit,
instead of building permit?
Stewart: There are challenges to that and there are other avenues that we can take
that might be better. For instance, you know, if we were able to get some sort of a
warranty bond or a surety to cover the cost of that construction and go ahead and allow
the building permits to move forward and the occupancies to move forward, you know,
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2010
Page 20 of 53
we are asking for some information with regards to schedule and cost and so forth to be
provided to the city, we can look at that. The challenge that we see from the Public
Works side is it's alittle -- if you wait until the occupancy permit to limit that, then, you
perhaps have a homeowner standing out there in the driveway wanting to move into a
home and you're denying them the opportunity to move into their new home, as
opposed denying a building permit to get started. It's a matter of preference, which is
more difficult and more challenging.
De Weerd: I guess I have a question as to what is the time frame for approval that you
need on this final plat? Is it tonight is there some urgency? Can you wait two weeks?
Blackstead: The final plat I think is a completely separate issue as far as I'm concerned.
They are not tied together. In fact, the sewer and sewer service for these two building
lots was installed with phase one. So, as far as the plat goes, if you want to approve it
tonight, great, but the work's already been done on that.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, the Public Works Department has not sat down with the
developer on this and, you know, I just think it's very inappropriate to tie something to
this that hasn't even been discussed in detail and in finding a way to move forward. So,
certainly this is your decision, but I see it as two separate issues as well. But Iknow --
and, I'm sorry, Warren, I hate to contradict staff on the public record, so I apologize.
Bird: Madam Mayor? I also don't want to contradict staff, but it is, you have got the --
we got the final plat, which looks like it's all okay according to our staff and everything.
We still hold the hammer with building permits. As far as the sewer thing, it's not in
issuing them their -- so, I think it is, too. I think -- I think that -- I would have no problem
voting on the final plat tonight, getting that out of the way, because I don't think it and
the sewer warranty and stuff like that has alot -- is tied together myself.
Stewart: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, we -- our -- my comments were not
directed for you not to approve the plat, just perhaps maybe add a condition to the plat
that would preclude, for instance, the sewer -- that there is bathrooms associated with
the tennis courts. Our concern would be whether or not those were hooked up and
utilized prior to the usage -- or prior to the sewer being corrected. So, I just wanted to
make you aware of it. It's your decision. I just wanted to make sure you understood the
issue.
Blackstead: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, for the record there is no
bathroom that will be hooked up to the sewer system for the tennis facility.
Stewart: I apologize. It's shown on the -- in the drawing. It's a future stub that goes to
that facility, so --
Friedman: Madam Mayor, if I can just interject one thing about that bathroom. It's kind
of a source of ongoing discussion, because the bathroom is actually located in
unincorporated Ada County and in order to obtain city sewer services it's Council's
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2010
Page 21 of 53
policy that you would have to annex and so that's another conversation that I think will
be occurring in the future. So, as indicated, that bathroom is not going to be hooked to
the city sewer at this time.
De Weerd: Okay.
Blackstead: Madam Mayor, may I comment on that? The bathroom facility is -- as he
stated is in Ada County. It's on a septic system, it's -- it's a live system, it's working,
there is no rush to try to hook the city sewer on that.
De Weerd: Okay. Any questions from Council?
Rountree: I have none.
Bird: I have none.
Blackstead: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Council, this is an item --
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Further questions? Yes, Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: If there is no further discussion, I would move that we approve the final plat
for Spurwing Greens Subdivision, FP 10-004.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and asecond --
Zaremba: Madam Mayor, discussion?
De Weerd: Yes.
Zaremba: Does that or does that not release the building permits? Is that a separate
issue?
Rountree: That's a separate issue.
Zaremba: Okay. Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further discussion? Madam Clerk, will you call roll?
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2010
Page 22 of 53
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
B. FP 10-005 Zebulon Heights Subdivision No. 3 by The
Traditions by Amyx II, LLP Located South of East McMillan
Road and West of North Eagle Road: Request for Final Plat
Approval of Eighteen (18) Single-Family Residential Building
Lots, Four (4) Common Lots and One (1) Ada County Highway
District (ACRD) Storm Drainage Lot on 8.06 Acres in an R-4
Zoning District
De Weerd: Okay. Item 8-B, FP 10-005. I will ask for staff comments.
Friedman: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. This is a final plat for
Zebulon Heights Subdivision No. 3. The final plat consisting of 18 building lots, four
common area lots and an ACRD storm drainage lot on eight acres in an R-4 zoning
district. The subject site is located on the south side of McMillan Road and west of
North -- West of Eagle Road. It's also just east of Settlers Bridge Subdivision. This is
the second final plat proposed for division number two of Zebulon Heights. We have
reviewed the proposed final plat for consistency with the approved preliminary plat and
found it in substantial conformance as to the number of building lots, as well as the
amount of open space that is proposed. The applicant actually has until September
27th of this year to obtain the engineer's signature on the final plat. They have read the
staff report and the conditions of agreement, there is conditions of approval, and are in
agreement. We did get a written communication late today to that effect. So, with that I
would be happy to answer any questions. Staff does recommend approval.
De Weerd: Any questions for staff?
Rountree: I have none.
De Weerd: Does the applicant or representative want any comment? Do I have a
motion?
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I move that we approve the final plat for Zebulon Heights
Subdivision FP 10-005, subject to staff comments.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 8-B. Any discussion?
Seeing none, Madam Clerk., will you call roll?
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2010
Page 23 of 53
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 9: Department Reports
B. Finance Department Report: Adoption of the FY2010
Amended Budget in the Amount of $65,894,051.00
C. Finance Department Report: Adoption of the FY2011 Tentative
Budget in the Amount of $68,263,267.00
De Weerd: Item 9-B was moved as 8-C and so I will ask for the Finance Department
report at this time.
Lavoie: Good evening, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Tonight you should
have received an interoffice memo from the Finance Department regarding the tentative
fiscal year 2011 budget and the amended fiscal year 2010 budget. Tonight's action is
we just need to make a formal statement that the amounts that are on the interoffice
memo are read by one of you and for the next four weeks we will put this in a public
notice and, then, on August 24th we will have our official public hearing for the public to
come forward to you with any questions. So, at this time I would hand it over to you.
Just need someone to read the interoffice memo for the fiscal year 2011 tentative
budget and the fiscal year 2010 amended budget.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: The amended budget -- tentative -- Council -- no, this is 2011. I'm in the wrong
one. Sorry. Go ahead. Somebody got it, go ahead.
Rountree: Let the Council President do that. I think that's an honor he is bestowed.
Bird: Yeah. That's right.
Zaremba: Okay. I move that we approve -- or tentatively approve the proposed
revenues and expenditures for fiscal year 2011 in the amount of 68,263,267 dollars.
And the -- number two -- two separate actions.
Lavoie: Excuse me, Madam Mayor. Do we have to do them separate?
Rountree: I would. I will second that motion.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and second. Any discussion? Madam Clerk, will
you call roll?
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2010
Page 24 of 53
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Zaremba: I move we approve the amended revenues and expenditures for fiscal year
2010 in the amount of 65,894,051 dollars.
Hoaglun: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second. Any discussion on this item? Madam
Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
A. Parks and Police Department's Joint Report: Dog Park
Discussion
(Amended onto Agenda as Item A2) Discussion by Parks
Department Regarding Movie Night
De Weerd: That moves us to Item 9-A. 9-A-1. And I will turn this over to the chief and
Mr. Siddoway.
Lavey: Madam Mayor and Council. Parks Director Steve Siddoway and myself would
like to take this opportunity to give you a status update and request some feedback on
our current dog park. Over the past several months or at least several weeks we have
received numerous a-mail requests to examine possibly opening the dog park for
extended hours, at least through the summer months and, then, go back to a modified
schedule for the winter hours and I told the parks director that it was worth considering
and discuss it with my staff and his staff and myself have also met to discuss several
different options, but I did mention to him that I would seek Mayor and Council
comments before we did any such changes to that and one of the things that we'd like
to point out is that there is definitely a need for another site, but we are doing our best to
meet the needs of the -- of the users with the current site. And with that I will turn it over
to Steve for a few comments and -- that's not our stuff there. That's coming up. I don't
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2010
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want to talk about waste management. And so I'll turn it over to Steve to discuss what
we have done and some additional options.
Siddoway: Thank you, Jeff, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. You will recall that
last fall going into winter, due to impact on the site, we made a decision to institute new
hours. Instead of being open seven days a week, it's been open since last fall as -- four
days a week, Friday through Monday, and, then, it's closed currently in the middle of the
week Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. Mr. Brian Draper sits on the dog park task force
and has been in inquiry with Jeff and I. You knew, when we posted the -- a sign out
there in the spring it said that, you know, going into the summer we were going to keep
the days the same, but as the summer moved forward that we would reevaluate based
on turf conditions and the police department's needs. So, we met on site yesterday with
police, with park staff, and looked at what's out there. What we found that the site is
doing better than it was in the winter. There are still a couple of sand areas that are not
going to regrow turf. A lot of the grass that's out there is somewhat sparse, but a lot of
that's due to the poor soil conditions on the site. It may be resilient enough to handle
some additional wear, but in all honesty we won't know unless we -- we try it. Talking
with park superintendent Elroy Huff and Mike Barton, they have somewhat of a
difference of opinion. Elroy would prefer to see the current schedule maintained. The
turf out there he's not convinced can handle a lot of additional wear. Mike thinks we
ought to try and monitor it and see where that -- that goes. The reality is that it may
cause additional wear and -- but we don't know. We know that there is some tough soil
conditions out there that don't allow a lot of good drainage, but -- and the drainage --
and the drainage problems and the lack of soil really are our major issues out there in
terms of maintenance. Our options -- I see at least three options to throw out to you for
consideration. One, we keep the status quo, we make it four days a week and it's year
around and maybe we offered the dog park task force to -- if there is another four days
that work better, maybe we can -- could offer that up. Option two, we could try and add
some additional days. My concern about doing that, even more than the park, is
whether that would work for the police department and I'll let Jeff speak to that, but it's
my understanding that they could accommodate additional days with their training
schedule, as long as they had some time still reserved. Excuse me. So, we could -- we
could try having an additional day or two and monitor the amount of additional wear and
use of that and, then, close it again going into winter and see what happens this next
couple of months and use that in making a decision what our summer hours will be next
year. I think that might be a good recommendation. The other option is to open it
seven days a week with possibly closing Tuesdays after 5:00 p.m. or -- is what we
talked about for a train evening for the police department. We'd have to accept in that
case there almost certainly will be additional wear and tear on the facility there, but it
would be in the interest of trying to meet the public demand that we see. So, those are
the three options I see. Status quo. One or two additional days, but close it back for --
in October to the winter hours and, number three, open it seven days a week, with an
evening closing. And with that I will give some closing remarks back to Jeff.
Lavey: Thanks, Steve. Basically, the goal is to eventually close the K-9 facility to the
public. But the goal is not to do that until another option is available to them. So, we
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2010
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are trying to be good stewards and try to accommodate it as best as we can. One of
the things that the police department is -- there is a rule in place that we can actually
close it without notice anytime we need to use the facility and we did that a few times in
the very very beginning and it upset a lot of people, because they'd show up and, then,
all of a sudden it would be closed. So, we would defer back to that, is if we did open it
for additional hours. We do have that option in place. It's always been in place and we
post it and close it if the need became available. But, generally, the need becomes
greater in the evening and the park already closes at sunset, although the summertime
that could be as late as 10:00 o'clock at night. But our officers are generally using that
facility when it's after -- after dark. So, the only time it would really become an issue is if
we were to put on a police academy, dog academy, or if we were doing some sort of
certification training or maybe some sort of police trial and, generally, we would have
advanced notice of that and we'd do everything that we could to post that in advance, so
people would know that on this particular day and this particular time the facility would
be closed. So, I do believe that we can accommodate greater hours. I, too, believe that
it's going to take a greater wear and tear on the -- the grass. There was a lot of
standing water out there when we were out there. But the other thing is is that the
current proposal is to extend the hours only through October 1st, which is generally 60
days and, then, to divert back to a --amore limited schedule when the wintertime
comes and with that said -- there was another option that was offered that I jumped on
right away and that was to close the facility altogether and that would definitely take
care of the grounds, but I realize that that's very unpopular and I'm just saying that in
jest. But that did come from the Parks Department, not from the Police Department, for
the record. So, basically, what we are here today is to just seek some comments and
feedback, some direction, see what Council has in mind and, then, hopefully,
incorporate that into whatever we do.
De Weerd: Thank you, chief.
Lavey: So, with that I think we have time for any questions.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I appreciate the option to post ahead of time times that you might have. to
close it at random. The one other issue that I remember helped prompt the closing was
that the crew, which I believe was a contract crew that does the mowing, found it difficult
to mow when there were actually dogs and people in there. And my instinct is to say
even if we open it to a couple more days, there needs to be one day and if it works for
the police department that they would like to train on Tuesday evenings, 1 would say
make it Tuesday that it's closed all day and that gives the mowing people the
opportunity to be in there free and clear and, then, the police to use it for training that
evening and that's a known schedule ahead of time and, then, the police would have the
option to post -- pre-post that next week it's going to be closed on these days. That
sounds pretty good to me. And, then, go back to the winter schedule in October.
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2010
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Lavey: Madam Mayor, Mr. Zaremba, that's probably exactly why -- I was wondering
why the mowers were not mowing on Fridays like they were and they were now mowing
on Wednesdays and that probably is why they are doing that. We would have to see if
they could accommodate maybe the -- the Tuesday of something like that. One of the
things that we'd like to do is if we are going to open it up for longer hours, it has to be
consecutive, so we can't be closed one day, and open one day, closed one day. It
doesn't make sense for us and it doesn't make sense for our users. So, we'd have to
work with the grounds crew on that, but I'm sure that that can be accommodated.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Question for Steve. Your experts looking at the grass and different things
and I agree, seven days -- we know what's going to happen. It would become a mud
bog and going into the winter it would be a mess, but I'm trying to weigh the -- currently
open four days, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday. If we open it Tuesday and leave it
Wednesday, Thursday, for mowing, recovery, training, but -- or do we open it six days
with one day off, and probably Thursday, be closer to the mower's schedule. But what
are your thoughts? I know your staff is divided on this, but a one day -- add one day, as
opposed to adding two days, does it -- does it help the facility or it doesn't matter?
Siddoway: I think my recommendation would be that we go -- try the six days. Leave
Tuesday closed all day. Let that be our maintenance day, their training day. We are
only talking two months. So, we can see what -- what happens with that six day a week
schedule over the next two months and, then, we can use that going into our next year
summer schedule to know how it responded to that two months of use.
Hoaglun: Thank you. Question for chief, Madam Mayor, if I might. Will your mower be
able to accommodate Tuesday, if it's closed that day, as opposed to a Thursday? Is
there areason --
Lavey: Yeah. Madam Mayor, Mr. Hoaglun, you know, we are their client, so I guess if
they want our business they will -- they will adapt. It's a service contract, service
through the Parks Department, so we would have to have Mike from the Parks
Department make contact with them. I really don't see that being a problem. The
reason why we choose -- have chosen Tuesday is that's the Treasure Valley training
day for the K-9s and so it just makes sense to keep it on Tuesdays, instead of having all
of them change.
Hoaglun: Thank you.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2010
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Rountree: I believe the decision that we need to make has been made and that was to
establish the dog park. From my perspective it's up to you two gentlemen to work out
how that works, when it's open, when it's not open and when you close it. I don't think
we really need to micro manage that. But what I would ask -- and it's the same
comments I made before when we were talking about expanding the park in the Borup
property, I have seen no action towards some boundaries on the use of the dog park
with respect to requiring the dogs to be licensed, requiring the dogs to meet certain
health requirements, because we have our K-9s out there and we don't want any
disease that could be transmitted, if there are any, to our investment and same
comments I made before and I don't see any action on the part of anybody, whether it's
the dog park committee or whether it's the parks and rec commission or whom ever, to
look at those things and bring us some recommendations on policies that we should be
making decisions on, not necessarily operation of the dog park itself. That's my opinion.
And I would like to see some of that stuff, because I think it's -- you know, we keep
talking about how we are going to pay for this thing and one of the ways we pay for it is
through license fees. If we have got 30,000 dogs in the City of Meridian and we have
only got 2,000 of them registered, we are missing something there somewhere and, you
know, we need to get a handle on some of that stuff. And not to bash this, I think what
we have done is a good thing, but I think we need to start thinking about it and I think
we need to start thinking about how we are going to grow this, if, in fact, we are going to
grow it and I think we need some of those policies established.
Lavey: Madam Mayor, Mr. Rountree, we already have those policies established for the
actual dog park and the dog park users. You know, rule number two and rule number
three right on there is the dogs must be vaccinated to use this facility and the next one
in line is they must be licensed to use that facility. So, the current users of that facility
are bringing in dogs that are inoculated and are licensed. It's the other people in the city
that we still have to go after and, then, just today we actually were discussing the
potential upcoming survey and some of the demographic questions we discussed was
do you own a dog and, if so, how many and trying to get a grasp of whether those
numbers are really reflective of reality or not, because right now they are just an
estimate of there is X number of dogs per -- per household on average and that's, really,
just -- it's just a guess and I do think that it's -- it's obvious that we have more than 2,000
dogs in this city without -- without going and looking at the numbers. But whether we
have 15 or 16 thousand dogs I don't know if that's realistic or not. So, we are taking
some steps to head in that right direction.
Rountree: I appreciate your comment about what the sign says, but my concern is, one,
are they being enforced and, two, are they enforceable. We don't have an ordinance
that relates to vaccinations. That -- to me that's a policy issue. We have an ordinance
with respec# to licensing, but is that being enforced at all? Do we -- do we have animal
control out there occasionally to do that?
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2010
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Lavey: Just -- you know, we do have under licensing some -- the rabies vaccine is
required. So, we are -- they are being vaccinated for rabies. As far as the other
vaccinations, no, they are not being required under the current licensing.
Siddoway: I was going to say, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council and Councilman
Rountree, the -- I can work with Chief Lavey and see if -- in terms of enforcement, I
think a few spot checks by animal control would go a long way if we just went out there
and started doing -- that's what we have been doing with our softball residency
requirements, for example. We don't have time to be at every game every day checking
residency, but check a few and the word gets out, you know, you need to -- you need to
do this. So, I think we could implement some -- some spot checks with the help of
animal control to see if the dogs out there are licensed and they go that way and with
the enforcement side. I would say that the dog park task force has been looking at the
-- the unlicensed issue and I think they raised it to the forefront in their presentation
about what kinds of funds could be raised if -- if we get more licensed. Still something
that we are definitely interested in helping with. We have also had feedback from legal
that fees for licensing can't be -- can't go towards a park improvement, but we will work
on the -- we are also working on the funding side. We have put a donation box out at
the dog park and we are currently accepting donations and taking -- collecting those
donations from the box on a weekly basis and, you know, they vary. It's -- they are not
going to build a new dog park on their own for a long time, but people are donating to it
and we are collecting those and putting them in an account with Finance.
Rountree: Very good.
Lavey: Madam Mayor, Council, I guess my final comments would be that I really
appreciate the comments Mr. Rountree says as far as giving us the sense to decide
what works and what doesn't work and we really don't want to burden Council or the
Mayor with this, it just seems like everything that we do, whether it's positive or
negative, anything that we do creates a lot of feedback toward you and we just wanted
to make sure that you were kind of aware of it before we did anything different. So, in
the future we will sure take care of that ourselves, but it seems like it's been a pretty hot
topic anytime we do something the citizens are talking to you and we wanted to make
sure that you weren't blindsided with some surprise. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Does Brian have any comment?
Draper: My name is Brian Draper, I live at 1996 Kristen Way. Long time Meridian
resident. Fact is my family's ran a business in Meridian for 40 years. I'm pleasantly
surprised tonight, because I didn't have any idea when Steve invited me here that we
were going to be -- exactly what we were going to be discussing, because we played
phone tag and never got ahold of each other, but I appreciate all the words that the
chief said and we worked very hard to be good tenants in his facility. I have worked
with Officer Brown, he has given me information and certain things we had to correct
and we have taken care of it. The situation with the mowing was earlier in the year they
were mowing on Mondays and they said that they were having a problem with it and I
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2010
Page 30 of 53
told the Parks Department and they changed it to Thursday or whenever they are doing
it now. So, I don't think it's an issue with changing the day to Tuesday, I think that --
that would be an excellent option. I think the people out there would really appreciate it
to do that. Last year when the grass really took the big hit, the letter that Steven put out
didn't come out until the end of October and when we hit that wet season right after
those first couple weeks of October, that's when the grass really started taking the hit.
So, I think just opening it between now and October 1st for the six days and we can
monitor it and see what happens on it. I notified them today the standing water issue is
there is a broken water line out there on the irrigation system and they went out today to
take care of that and that's what was causing the problem with the standing water they
have out there now. So, we have been good tenants, I hope. Igo around and pick up
all the orphan poops every day that were out there and keep it clean and we work well
with Officer Brown and we want to keep it that way and we do have goals to get the new
park built and we have several exciting things coming up that we are going to be
working on tomorrow night and my hope is that we can get maybe grass planted late
next summer or something, so we can get moving on this. That's my personal goal to
get that done.
De Weerd: Well, thank you for your involvement and your partnership. It's appreciated.
Draper: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Siddoway: In the spirit of the last comments, this item that we have regarding movie
nights is probably more informational, but given that a lot of things come your way, we
didn't want you to be blindsided by this and we'd certainly accept any comments or input
you would give, but --
De Weerd: So, this is under a heads up as well?
Siddoway: Heads up. Yeah. The -- movie night has continued to grow in popularity, as
has the crowd that's not really there for movie night and the issues associated with that
have been increasing and it's interfering with the original intent as a movie night. So,
we had a meeting today with the Mayor's office, Police Department, Parks Department
and, then, several of the city volunteers who were volunteering at the site last week and
giving us feedback and the decision that we have made is that we will begin enforcing a
-- the park closure for anyone that's not there to watch the movie and so it will be -- we
hope to make it go back to the family friendly atmosphere that it has been and -- and
take care of some of those interfering uses that are happening, you know, behind the
crowd and causing interference with those that are there to try and watch the movie.
So, we have talked with police. We are going to have an increased police presence
starting with weekend and we are going to be distributing fliers to parents that are
dropping their off kids and making sure it's known that it's -- you know, that the park is
open specifically for the movie night use and not for the other -- the other parts of the
park are closed, so -- anything to add?
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2010
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Lavey: Madam Mayor, Council, I guess the -- what really concerned us is when people
are coming to us and saying that I would not take my kids to that park for movie night
and we have really kind of lost the intent of what that park is and we got a lot of
disruptive behavior, we are finding a lot of offensive behavior, we are finding a lot of
criminal behavior and this last Friday was really the perfect storm. We had our bike
patrol units that were on vacation, we had 65 calls for service in the city during the time
frame that movie night was going on, we had three calls for service to the park for fights,
we had two additional calls for service to the park for foot patrols and, then, we had H2
overload going on in the city as well and so we were stretched very very thin. And it's
really kind of giving us a bad eye out there as far as the kids are showing up and using
it as a local hang out and so at the meeting today I said what is our intent out there. If
it's for the move night, then, that's what we need to establish, that this is for the movie
night, the park is closed at sunset, you can't be hiding in the dugouts, you can't be on
the ball field, you can't be on the play equipment. We need to establish a perimeter out
there as far as where you can be and where you can't be and we need to enforce that.
So, to help Steve take back his park, we are going to establish a five person patrol team
out there and a command post out there and try to get back to what the intent was. I
realize that since this has been going along for awhile that we might get some push
back, but we are finding that a lot of parents are dumping their kids and using us a
babysitter and that wasn't what the intent is for it as well. So, I guess come Monday
morning we all deal with those calls if they come in, but we wanted you to be aware of
that, too. Seek your feedback, what your comments are, see if your goals are what our
goals are, see if that's what your intent was of family night, because we are really losing
something that was such a really good deal and -- I mean we are -- for the right reasons
and it was for the family and it's starting to drift and we need to take care of that before it
gets out of hand, so -- did you have some follow-up comments? I'd stand for any
comments from Council or questions.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba..
Zaremba: I appreciate the direction you're going and I think it's absolutely right. I agree
with what you worked out. My observation would be -- and, actually, I had this
observation at the Christmas tree lighting as well. I assume you're talking about older
youth, teens, that are hanging around and not participating in the movie. They don't
seem to have anyplace else to go and I absolutely agree with protecting the intent of
movie night, but I worry that just chasing them out of the park is not the final answer. Is
there anything in the works to have a Friday night dance or teen activities or -- I mean
we need to give them something to do, because if they are having fights and criminal
ac#ivities in the park, they will just move that somewhere else and I worry that they don't
have anything to do. I guess that's -- I don't have a suggestion, but --
De Weerd: Well, I will say that not all of these kids are from Meridian.
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2010
Page 32 of 53
Lavey: They are not.
De Weerd: And what is different this year is we are getting a lot of youth from other
areas coming in looking for a fight and that is what is not acceptable.
Zaremba: Okay.
Siddoway: We do have our teen activities club, which we -- but that is actually on the
months that movie night is not running. It's once a month also, it's not every week. We
can advertise that. But, you know, until sometime in the future when we have some
kind of a teen drop in rec center, I don't know that we are going to really be able to crack
that nut in terms of city services. We did talk about the possibility of opening another
park in another location for a hang out, but that simply stretches --
De Weerd: You're kidding.
Siddoway: -- the police even further.
De Weerd: Keep your gun in your holster.
Lavey: You know, Madam Mayor, Council, I'd just like to point out that we did discuss
Kleiner Park, too, with the amphitheater coming up and everything else and somewhere
down the road the intent is to have functions as well. So, I already have limited hair and
I was already looking at events going on Friday night in Kleiner Park, events going on
Friday night in Settlers Park, still having Roaring Springs, and still having to run the
whole city and trying -- well, the speedway has been really really good. But they have
their own security there and they have done a tremendous job. We do not respond to
the speedway for calls for service. Now, we probably will tomorrow just because I said
that. But what's going to happen is we are really kind of working on a short-term plan
and really along-term solution for next year and as I have done in the past is -- is I
looked and what our plan was, for an example, Storey Park for Fourth of July and for a
typical ops plan and how many people it took and everything else, I was able to adjust
my overtime budget to accommodate that. This here has not been adjusted, therefore,
we are going to try to use as much existing officers as we can, but with vacations and
training and everything else that could prove difficult. So, there is going to be overtime
involved and we are going to start tracking that to see exactly how much it's costing to --
to control this properly. So, we have more of an answer later. But I may be coming
back and asking for some money later on out of Steve's budget.
Rountree: Good call.
De Weerd: Any other questions from Council?
Bird: I have none.
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2010
Page 33 of 53
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I have a question. In terms of your -- your force that will be
out there, what do you do? Citations? Arrests? Just encouragement to go back home
and if they are dropped off by parents -- how do you corral them?
Lavey: Very good question. We discussed that. Several things that we need to do is
we need to educate and so one of the things that we have put in place first to do a press
release and have legal review the press release to make sure that everything is up in
order. We are going to get that posted to the website. We are going to get that out to
the media. We are going to make fliers and have volunteers hand out the fliers when
people show up in the circle on Friday night and we are really going to start educating
people. Once that's being done, then, we are going to start kicking people out, using
the parks exclusion if we have to. And, then, if they do come back, which last week we
had people that were involved in fights were kicked out of the park and came back,
then, we are going to make arrests for trespassing. And, then, the other thing that we
are going to do is if we have kids that are causing problems there, we are going to keep
them at the command post to make their parents come to the command post and pick
them up and take responsibility for their kids. That is the plan for now.
Rountree: Thank you.
Bird: Sounds like a wiener.
De Weerd: Well -- and I think the lieutenants said, you know, with enforcement actions
the first two weeks we hope that the remaining section or season is as event free as
possible, but -- and for the majority we are talking about a small minority of kids that
they are really going to have the issues with, so --
Lavey: And Ithink -- Madam Mayor
back for next month's workshop and
seeing and what we are facing and
too.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Lavey: Thank you.
,Ithink what we should do, too, is, then, just come
just give you a quick status report of what we are
what our progress is, just so you're aware of that,
D. Public Works Department: Update on Ada County's Waste to
Energy Project
De Weerd: Okay. Items B and C were moved up under eight, so we will move to the
Public Works Department on an Ada County waste to energy project.
Mangerich: Madam Mayor, Council President, Council Members, I probably don't need
to introduce you to this gentleman, but I sure would like to thank him. Steve Sedlacek,
owner and operator for Sanitary Sewer Services Company, our very own waste hauler.
Steve and I have been in some discussions as of late of some arriving news that came
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2010
Page 34 of 53
to us through colleagues in a separate meeting and we found that it was of enough
importance that we should bring it to you briefly to our Council and, then, we are also
going to be seeking direction from you this evening to how we make further
communications with Ada County on this change in our waste management system.
This evening I'm going to run you through the contract that Ada County has entered
into, a contract with Dynamis Energy to design, build, operate a waste energy facility
located at the Hollow Hills Ada County Landfill. It combusts municipal solid waste -- that
will be our solid waste and hazardous waste from Meridian, from the city of Boise and
from all within counties or cities who take their trash to the Ada County Landfill. And
towards that we are going briefly run through the technology with you. I have
experience managing the waste energy contract with the Spokane regional solid waste
system, so I can at least give a layman's description of what is briefly shown within their
corporate brochure and I would advise the Council members that there is very little
information at this point out here and no communications have been accorded to the
stake holders, waste haulers, city of Boise, the city of Meridian, Star, Kuna, et cetera.
So, this is an update and seeking direction from you for further positive
communications. Let's see. I'm sorry. The next arrow? And, then, press? Can I get
your help, Caleb? Thank you. It takes a village.
Sedlacek: Just really briefly, the current solid waste system -- there is about 1,250 tons
per day that go into the landfill. We have a household hazardous waste collection
program. You guys all know this. It's very successful. Seventy, seventy-five tons of
material is taken out of the waste stream every year. Under this new system all that
would be burned in an incinerator or some proportion of that would be burned. We also
have recycling programs and construction waste facilities. Currently we have disposal
fees based on yardage. They are switching that to a tonnage based system this
January. That will cause residential rates to rise. Just put that out there. I don't know
why they are pursuing this activity now with the waste energy facility, but it's come out of
the blue for us and so we have to address it, I guess. Boise pays 53 percent of Ada
County's landfill disposal revenues. We pay about 13. And that's Meridian and Kuna
together. So, together we are about two-thirds of their -- of their budget -- of their
revenue. We have weekly household hazardous waste collection. The county pays
about a million dollars a year to dispose of that material, so they bear the brunt of that
program financially. Two things I wanted to tell you about. Three to five years ago, if
you remember, the county went through extensive public hearings before they
expanded the landfill. We went through this over and over and over for more than a
year I think and waste energy was considered, long hauling was considered, building a
second landfill considered. Adding a new cell to the current landfill was considered and
that was the decision was to expand the current site and that's what happened and
that's what the rates are based on. And now two years later we are going off on a
tangent for reasons that we don't know about. Now, you do have -- under state law you
have the option to opt out and that's a very heavy decision. If you opt out that's okay,
but opting back in could be extremely difficult. But it's open to you. One thing you have
going for you is you have a transfer station in your city that can haul anywhere in the
west. So, you don't need the Ada County Landfill, but it's not cheap to go out outside
the county either. That's a big expense.
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2010
Page 35 of 53
De Weerd: How about using rail?
Sedlacek: Rail can be done. Absolutely. Rail hauling, you know, you're going to have
to go 200 miles at least before you start recouping the cost of your rail versus the cost
of hauling in a tractor trailer rig. So, there is some economy there we'd have to figure
out. But it's important. Absolutely. And with that I'm going to turn it back to Mollie.
Mangerich: Thanks, Caleb. Well, what I have done is picked out pieces of this very
brief professional services agreement that Ada County has entered into with Dynamis
Energy, LLC. If you can see the amount of the contract, it's about two million dollars.
There is very -- the technology that they are asking to be employed at the waste energy
facility, that would take in a minimum 250 tons per day of municipal solid waste and one
of our commissioners on a recent video interview last week said that they would also be
accepting the household hazardous waste that is accepted at all of our collection events
and that this could be incinerated and we will talk about that in my concerns slide later.
This timeline of six months, most likely from my reading of the contract is to meet
application eligibility for this calendar year for the federal tax rebate, renewable energy
credits for this facility, was, basically, under the American Recover and Reinvestment
Act to provide payments or tax credits to energy producing facilities. A host of
deliverables are to be accomplished within this preconstruction timeline, very short
timeline, including assessing, submitting, submitting licenses, permits, providing a
quality model to Idaho DEQ, as well as an engineering study -- or engineering plan on
the technology and also within the contract there was a put and call provision in it. Next
slide.
De Weerd: What is put and call?
Mangerich: What is put and call?
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Mangerich: That's kind of an archaic term and I bet our lawyer would like this. But,
basically -- I researched this. Basically, the owner of the county, after review and at its
discretion may not want to proceed with procuring and installing of this project, a
consultant Dynamis, after reviewing in its discretion may want to proceed in the
absence of the county's decision to proceed and, basically, do legal iterations, you
develop a price of which you're going to reimburse either the contractual fee or a sale of
the energy fee or you're going to call them to operate it for you and so there is a myriad
of transactional possibilities, ones that the other can buy the other person out and
proceed with the waste energy facility. And that is within the contract, which we can
make available. Preliminary design criteria is established by Ada County within this
professional services agreement that there be -- they want a facility that does not
require any pre-sorting of the waste. It would accept household electronics, including
TVs, monitors, which are the cathode ray tubes, which are very hazardous. Waste tires.
They have a lot of BQ value in them. The energy generating capacity -- they want an
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2010
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electrical output of no less than seven megawatts per hour, which is fairly small, but
they are only asking for 250 tons of waste per day. In my experience with the Spokane
waste energy facility, we were generating a net of 22 megawatts, which would power
about 13,000 houses. So, to compare and contrast on the scale there. Also they want
their waste ash from the combustion process to be landfilled at their Subtitle B landfill in
the new ravine, in the new cell that they have -- to my knowledge that is a Subtitle B
nonhazardous waste landfill.
Siddoway: Correct.
Mangerich: Okay. And in my experience with the -- we had acombined -- excuse me --
bottom ash with waste energy in Spokane and to be able to try to prove that it was not
hazardous, we had over seven years of testing toxicity, characteristic leak sheet, to be
able to prove to Washington Department of Ecology that it could meet regular disposal
and nonhazardous waste disposal. We haven't met that yet. The proposed technology
-- this is a schematic and a corporate brochure I pulled up on their website. There is
some research. It's kind of an awkward looking diagram. We haven't decided if it's a
cross-section or an above view. But for a layman's understanding this evening,
basically, the process tonight, even though it's described as proprietary and trade
secrets within the document, it's, basically, a burn your waste, create gas, convert it to
steam and produce energy. So, I think -- can I point here? Do you see that? Do you
see me? Okay. So, basically, the municipal solid waste for Meridian and our other
communities will be bringing in, would just off-load at the waste energy -- or at the
landfill, they would probably, then, put it -- shove it into these receptacles where they
would go into a primary gasification chamber. Basically, after that you have a waste
stream of ash, metals, and waste. Gases enter into your secondary combustion
chamber of where they are basically treated just -- sorry. Thank you, Caleb. You're my
buddy. Basically, this gas is vented to steam, it's scrubbed of oxygen, so there is this
oxidation, so there is this oxidation process and it goes into the boilers and, then, it's
scrubbed and it goes into the steam turbine generators and that steam carries a lot of
energy and so that's what -- and that's where you can sell your power. They also have,
as part of this contract, that they need to purchase a power agreement with like Idaho
Power, so they can sell anything, which is entirely reasonable. And, then, the steam
goes back to your cooling towers, it's recycled, regenerated, it's a closed system, it goes
back into the boilers. Next. We are going to share our concerns here. We kind of
briefed each other on what -- what is the litany of lists, we just simply are in a dearth of
no information and it's came on so sudden, so we did -- we did want to do some
brainstorming on this. I guess number one I was so shocked that there was no
daylighting of the issue to the stakeholders. I mean we are responsible for the
determination of our residents' trash and that's a public trust and we hired a very
reputable company to take our trash and manage it in the most environmentally
responsible way. So, I think it behooves us to know what's happening at a regional
basis where our trash is actually going to. My second major concern having just
dabbled in the business a bit is like what is the track record of known facilities for
Dynamis Energy and my research and my colleagues research in Boise is to this point
brought up two facilities. One's in Columbia and, then, one is up in Barrow, Alaska.
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2010
Page 37 of 53
Sedlacek: And that's not Columbia, South Carolina. Yeah. It's the county of. Yeah.
Mangerich: Thank you. As having been in the hazardous waste field for a long time, I
do know that the way that we manager our hazardous waste is how we designate it.
Household hazardous waste is such aproblem -- wonderful popular program, because
it is exempt from federal RCRA rules in the handling of that. And so we are able to
collect it and transport or recycle it, make bunker fuel out of it and provide fuel regionally
and do very marvelous things with -- in many cases a toxic waste. However, it's just
going into a mass burner sort of situation. Are they going to be burning it as a RCRA
rate of are they going to be burning it as a exempt rate? And regulatory requirements
and pollution control are commensurate with either of those, so I would like more
information about how that would be permitted.
Sedlacek: So, my concerns, Madam Mayor, Members of he Council, I'm not sure if
DEQ will issue an air permit for this or it may -- they may not have primacy for this type
of facility, it may be a federal air permit. And we are almost in a nonattainment area in
this valley. So, there is the suggestion that we are going to have a new point source
and burn waste seems counterproductive, frankly. Also, we do have the ability -- we did
talk about this briefly about flow control issues. If the county were to get really deep in
debt on a project, such as this, related to their waste stream, they could attempt flow
control, which is to pass a law, it simple says if you generate waste in this county it
stays in this county and you have to -- to be chained into the large regional solid
system. Whether or not that could work legally, I don't know. It's highly variable across
the country based on which district court you're in. It's been to the Supreme Court a
number of times. There is all sorts of variables and who knows. Luckily you have a
state law that says you can opt out. Also I don't know why you would locate a facility
such as this directly upwind from Boise, the state's largest city. The wind either blows to
the southeast or the northwest, which means it's going to blow to Eagle or blow to
Boise. You know, and why -- if you're going to transfer 25 tons per day of material like
that, that's great. Locate it in the southern part of the county. You're going to transport
the waste anyway, just transport it out there. It doesn't make any sense to me. But, you
know, we do have a dearth of information and it's easy to be critical, I suppose, if you
don't have information. But I'm just -- these are just concerns that have come up.
There is a few oddities and maybe this has all been worked out behind the scenes, I
don't know. Those my concerns.
Mangerich: Well, we are requesting the Council provide some direction or
encouragement to open up the lines of communication with Ada County Commissioner,
our stakeholders in the region, haulers, public and private, and our municipalities within
Ada County and ask respectfully that Ada County provide information to us as users of -
- and payers of their facility, that what are their plans, and to, basically, open up
conversations about the technology and I would assume that we would want to include
our solid waste advisory committee in this, Madam Mayor, and Council.
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2010
Page 38 of 53
Sedlacek: Just a couple comments from me on this. It would be great if we got
Dynamis and the county to present something to us to, to the SWAC and Council jointly,
maybe. Frankly, the information they -- since they are claiming proprietary information,
they are not going to share any technical information with us, so without that technical
information you can't really make a decision or figure out what's going to happen. So,
my comment would be waste energy projects are technically highly sophisticated,
difficult, multi-disciplinary engineering projects. There is no doubt about it. And I think
that you should contract or you all cities together should contract with a reputable third
party that has no vested interest in this to review their work. When I was a consultant,
you know, we would go into meetings like this and we would sign nondisclosure
agreements, so that we -- you know, we couldn't learn about someone's technology
and, then, go out, replicate it, and reuse it. So, that would allow the discussion of the
proprietary stuff and maybe this is something new, maybe it's completely -- maybe this
is the greatest thing ever. I don't know. How are you going to find that out? Well,
someone is going to have to delve into it, someone that has your best interest at heart.
Now, I'm not technically astute enough to do that. You know, I have always had a great
amount of experience. It's great to have Mollie around staff here, because she's had a
lot of experience with waste energy coincidentally, which is great.
Mangerich: Which I'm not an engineer.
Sedlacek: Right. You know, we don't have the technical capability, but you can get that
done and I would think Meridian, Star, Kuna, Boise together hiring someone to do that
would be a great idea.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
Mangerich: That is our heads up for this evening.
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: A couple questions. And I know you don't have much information, obviously,
but where does the 1.9 million dollars come from to do this?
Mangerich: My understanding is it came from the landfill public disclosure fund that we
all contribute to, all rate payers.
Rountree: And what was the cost of the study that was done, what, three, four years
ago? And to me public disclosure ought to be the way to go through this and that -- I
mean that was a tremendous effort and it was -- it was a very visible effort and it was an
expensive effort and it seems to me that it was a good effort and now that study, which
probably still has a great amount of validity, is being put aside to the cost of the
taxpayers of another two million dollars and that's not the end of the story, because that
doesn't include all of the cost overruns of the analysis and the study that's going to go
on and, Steve, you know that as well as anybody what can happen in those contracts.
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2010
Page 39 of 53
Sedlacek: Well, Councilman Rountree, Members of the Council, I -- I don't know the
cost of the public outreach program that occurred. CH2M Hill was the consultant for
that. I have no idea what that cost is, but I'm sure you could find it, but --
Rountree: Yeah. We could get it.
Sedlacek: It wasn't cheap. But, you know, I guess my comment -- I need to be kind of
neutral on this issue, you know, if you guys like this stuff, that's great, we can haul stuff
there. My comment would be -- you know, one of the comments we get from our -- from
our citizens is that we need more composting, we need yard waste disposal -- that's the
issue in this city and it's the issue in this valley. That's 30 percent of our waste stream.
Well, that two million dollars could have been spent on a regional composting facility
and we would be very close to having it ready. Maybe not ready, but I guess it would be
a large step toward meeting a real problem and also that material is not combustible.
It's grass.
Mangerich: And they are going to be pulling that -- the majority of that wet material out,
because wet doesn't burn well. That would be landfilled.
Sedlacek: The city here is saying, well, they should have done this or they should have
done that. That's not really the point, I suppose, tonight. But I have to vent a little. I'm
sorry.
Mangerich: A little background to the press release that is on the Ada County website.
They are saying this and stating that this is being touted as the second project of Ada
County's new renewable energy industrial park located at the Hidden Hollow Landfill
complex. Already they incorporate very well known and well utilized technology for the
methane landfill gas recapture and convert that to energy, which is a fabulous
technology in use in many landfills throughout the United States and the world. And
they are gaining a -- well, I don't know if they have a revenue from that, but they have a
contractor that sells that. So, I guess they are adding this to.
Rountree: And the other cost they are not factoring into that is of a facility of this
magnitude is quite large, it will affect not only the rate payers from the trash collection
aspect, it will affect the rate payers that are buying power, because the rates for power
will go up, because they have to make a profit and Idaho Power has to take the power
at whatever cost it is to generate it, so our rates will go up. Somebody's will. At least
13,000 folks power will go up.
Mangerich: It can serve as a renewable green credit in the portfolio of Idaho Power.
Rountree: And I guess the other question is that we have talked about tax credits. Who
gets the tax credits?
Mangerich: The land owner.
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2010
Page 40 of 53
Rountree: But what do the tax credits do to the county? Nothing.
Mangerich: I don't know.
Rountree: Do they sell them?
Sedlacek: I don't know. I .think there was a lot of things that we would answer I don't
know to tonight.
Rountree: Yeah. I mean I'm just -- I'm kind of going on. It seems me this is a --
Sedlacek: It seems odd to me, excuse me, that -- well, maybe it shouldn't seem odd to
me, but the cities are where the waste is generated and you have a huge stake in this
and this -- I saw this first published in the Statesman. I think you should have a place at
the table. That's all I'm saying.
Mangerich: And I would very much -- as a representative of the City of Meridian
environmental programs, I would very like to approach this proactively, positively,
inquiry based, to find out what, indeed, is planned. We are stakeholders in this
technology, if we are to include our waste within this proposed facility. So, I very much
want to raise our head and say we are here and we need information.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I agree with all of that. I think I would throw one question in and that would
be the question to Idaho DEQ. What is their oversight or permitting process or
engineering review going to be? It's possible they will do alt that, which means we don't
have to hire a separate consultant to do it. But I would explore that if you could. Find
out what they are going to do in their approval process.
Hoaglun: Yeah. Madam Mayor, I think you have nailed a lot of the questions. I think
we just need to go forward and find out more information of what's going on, the impacts
-- I mean you guys are going down the right path and I think you need to keep pursuing
it.
Mangerich: Thank you.
De Weerd: Well, I guess I would invite you to draft a letter, if you can summarize.
think you have done a really nice job with the Powerpoint in trying to pull all of the
different facets together and, you know, we can request a meeting, but I think we also
need to talk to the other partners and see what -- if they have additional concerns or not
and, you know, this is a countywide issue. This is not -- it's probably not exclusive to us
that we would have these questions and concerns and I doesn't sound like they have
included anyone in their decision.
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2010
Page 41 of 53
Mangerich: No. And we are the first group to come to our Council with this notification
as well, so --
De Weerd: So, you know, hopefully, perhaps they can have a larger meeting as well to
include more people in it.
Mangerich: I can draft that up as a potential request and benefit to everybody using the
system currently and provide that to you for review.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Mangerich: Very helpful for us as well to have your support as we go forward. Thank
you, Steve.
Sedlacek: Thanks, Mollie.
De Weerd: Good tag team.
Mangerich: Yeah. Thank you, Caleb.
E. Planning Department: Transportation Overview -Presentation
by City Staff on Recent Transportation Projects, Studies and
Plans - Including a Review of the Draft State Transportation
Improvement Program (STIP), COMPASS' Regional
Transportation Improvement Program (TIP), Grant
Opportunities and Partnerships, and other Transportation
Topics
De Weerd: Okay. Our next Department Report is Caleb with our transportation
overview.
Hood: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, good evening. I am here for part two,
essentially, of the all things transportation. There are a couple of new things we will talk
about, but I think we will start with the old business, if you will. I did update the memo
that you didn't receive prior to last Council workshop on the 13th. Hopefully, you all got
this version. I do want to, like I said, follow up on a couple of things. The first thing
being the STIP. We talked about that last meeting. I have drafted a letter. You all
should have received that as well and I guess I just want to take a couple minutes to
see if you have any comments on the draft letter.- I do want to call out at least one of
the questions that was in the draft or at least the question that I had for the Council.
There is a couple of question marks on the last concluding paragraph in the draft letter
talking about certainly the need for U.S. 20-26 and Highway 44, they are both important,
but in the context of Meridian are they on the same level, do we want to give as much
importance to Highway 44 as we do the 20-26 or should we limit our comments more to
regionally significant projects that are within the corporate boundaries of Meridian. So,
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2010
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have got it currently drafted where we talk about both and the Meridian Road
interchange and all going important projects that should be in the STIP. The question,
then, would be in closing or if you don't like how I have kind of outlined taking out 44 or
putting it right on par with US 20-26 and any other comments you may have on the
letter, too, so -- I guess I will pause for -- hopefully you have all had a chance to read
that and, then, we are asking for the full Council's signature on that, not just the
Mayor's, for this one, so you will see it on letterhead when I get the A-OK from
everyone.
Hoaglun: And, Madam Mayor, I have read the letter. I was in agreement with them. I
didn't see anything that gave me any heartburn or anything, so I was good.
Hood: And 20-26 and 44 are on the same level. I mean COMPASS -- COMPASS
recently send a letter to ITD stating -- so, that would be consistent, essentially, with
what COMPASS sent to ITD, but that was my only question was there is -- the regional
hat that the COMPASS board wears versus -- certainly we look beyond our boundaries,
too, but --
Hoaglun: You know, Ilike -- we pay attention to what happens within our community
and that's our main focus, but at the same time, if they are applying the rules
consistently for all the areas that impact us, as well as others, I mean we -- consistency
is a good thing. I mean that's -- that's what we strive for, so if it maintains how things
move forward for everybody and that's the way it works, then, that -- by all means that's
fine. If things start going out of whack and, then, it's -- then, it's -- we are fighting for
what we can get within our boundaries. That's my take on it. But it seemed like to me it
was something that they would apply consistently throughout, whether it's 44 or 20-26,
so --
Rountree: I agree. Let's move it out and make sure they get them.
Hood: Okay. I will put that on letterhead tomorrow and start to route that around. Or
maybe even this evening if we get out of here. The second part -- and it's related,
certainly, but the TIP has, since our last meeting, been approved by the COMPASS
board for release for public comment. Same vein with the comments that I envision that
letter taking, again, with funds for 20-26 and Highway 44 being taken out. I did also
want to highlight a couple of other things in the draft TIP. The US 20-26 Broadway
bridge has changed in scope. It's currently a rehab preservation project and in the draft
it's moving up to a full replacement project. So, the cost of that project looked like it was
going up from about six million dollars to about 20 million dollars. I will note -- and I did
in the memo, too. It's got a really low bridge sufficiency rating, so there are some safety
issues with it, but I don't know why ITD couldn't do the rehab and still bring that
sufficiency rating up and, then, it goes to full replacement. So, I don't -- I don't know all
of the details, I just thought Iwould -- I found that interesting, anyways, when I was
going through here that 14 millions dollars for that project, so -- and, then, we talked
about last time Meridian Road interchange. ITD at the COMPASS board meeting and,
then, even a couple days before that, contacted me to let me know that they
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2010
Page 43 of 53
inadvertently left the Meridian Road interchange out of the STIP. So, they are going to
try to find some way to balance those dollars and get back in for 2012. It was in 2013.
So, they are going to try to find room in 2012 and even bump it up a year, so that's the
update on that, I guess. And, then, just to highlight a couple of the other district three --
ITD district three projects that are new projects to -- at the I-84 item and interchange,
east and westbound -- or north and southbound, however that works -- legs and, then,
an expansion project on I-84, the Y interchange storm retention pond. So, that -- that
falls under the expansion projects, but there certainly is no capacity involved, it's a
storm drain pond at about 885,000 dollars. So, really, no expansion projects when
think of them as capacity improvements, but still got to highlight those for the draft TIP --
I mean in STIP, too, so -- again, so I think I'll proceed with essentially the same letter
addressed to Matt Stahl and if there is any other comments or something you -- I may
change it a little bit, but it will, essentially, be the same letter if you are all right with that.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Caleb, probably not necessarily a question to you, but to the two COMPASS
board members. The modifications to the TIP that you identified, were those done to
address the desires of the state or was that something that in particular Boise requested
Broadway bridge and those kinds of things? And, if not, why did the board modify the
TIP to include those? Because if you don't include them in your TIP, then, they are not
mirrored in the STIP, they are not mirrored in the TIP. Basically, you have created a
checkmate to the state, because they have to mirror one another. So, then, we get into
a negotiation why. So, I guess I'm just unclear why -- why COMPASS took the
approach to modify the TIP to include those changed projects. I know you can't answer
that, but I -- maybe I can get the Mayor or Keith to answer that.
De Weerd: Well, I guess I wasn't there for the June discussion, you were, and I took
your comments and reiterated those in my remarks to COMPASS staff. They said that
what was discussed in June was moved forward to this last month. The discussion this
last month was more in tune to there are some projects that are -- that are not in
agreement, but they wanted it to go through the public commenting processes --
Rountree: Okay.
De Weerd: -- where they would be vetted.
Rountree: Okay.
De Weerd: And so that -- that allowed us all -- we weren't going to debate it at that
meeting.
Rountree: The last meeting.
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2010
Page 44 of 53
De Weerd: Because they said we have already had discussion in June and,
apologize, I didn't know what all had been discussed.
Rountree: I just wasn't in tune with what progressed, so it doesn't make sense.
De Weerd: Yeah.
Hood: Yeah. And it is for -- out for public comment, but I think it sounds like maybe --
IT don't think anybody's made their mind up at the board, depending on what comments
come back in, may change the TIP and it may not mirror the STIP. So, I would let you
know, though, at a TMA balancing meeting Boise city staff, too, were surprised, though,
that Broadway bridge changed. So, it wasn't initiated -- from what I could tell from the
city of Boise it wasn't one of their requests. It seemed to be a state initiated change for I
hope some engineering reasons, but --
De Weerd: Whatever reasons.
Hood: -- I don't know why, so -- we have some time. The public comment period is
open until August 23rd on the TIP, so if you want some time to think about that, I think
will do the same. If you're all right with it, I'll send you the draft letter, I'll take any
comments you have back and, then, route that through for signature if everybody is
okay with that or something else maybe comes up. So, we can -- we can maybe wait a
little bit until we send that letter off, but I do want to make sure it's in front of the
COMPASS board, so they see that we have chimed in and have those issues, you
know, in written form. I know the Mayor made some comments to that effect at the
COMPASS board meeting regarding, you know, 20-26 and 44 as it relates to three
cities and something like that, so -- but we will draft something and they can have it in
the public records, so when it comes time to move something on, so --
De Weerd: Hey, Caleb, I'm hoping, you know, that you can maybe even talk to Boise
staff and see where the city is coming from in terms of Broadway and where they are as
far as the rehab versus the reconstruction of it. It has been COMPASS's top priority is
the Meridian Road interchange and certainly I know both -- both of those corridors of 44
and 20-26, have been a priority as well. In particular 44 for the city of Boise. So, if you
could have some dialogue with their staffs to kind of get a better idea what their thinking
is in that regard, it can help us to determine how strongly we word our own letter in that
-- regarding that discrepancy.
Hood: Okay. I may wait to hear back, then, on that and, then, I'll send this letter around
and I will update you, then, on the discussions that I have with them, so -- moving on,
then, to the TIGER two grant application. We talked about this last time. I spoke to
some of you on Monday or Friday of last week on this topic as well or you may have
talked to Robert if l didn't talk to you over the phone. Matt Staht did contact the city last
week and had talked with ITD staff that are working on or part of the executive team that
are putting together the TIGER two grant application and, to paraphrase, ITD wasn't real
impressed with what we are bringing to the table for the match for that TIGER two grant
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2010
Page 45 of 53
application. They need to show more of a partnership to the federal government to
stand a chance, basically, of getting this grant. That's all kind of paraphrasing what we
heard back from Matt. So, they asked the Council to reconsider some of the discussion
we had last week on -- if we would be willing to consider designing and installing the
landscaping associated with the Meridian Road interchange rebuild, if, in fact, we are
granted that grant. So, I told Matt I would ask again or just kind of put it in that context.
The state is looking for -- Matt said a 50-50 match. I mean they are coming to the table
with nine million dollars. I don't think they expect the city to write a check for nine million
dollars. We do need to prove, though, that we are -- we do have more skin in the game.
know we have heard that before and that's probably overused, but something to prove
that we are vested and interested in this partnership. It doesn't have to be installation of
landscaping, but, again, they are looking for some ways that they can show, look at this,
we are partnering with this agency and that agency to make this happen. So, they are
also trying to -- try to roll in this project as, basically, Meridian Road from Overland to
Fairview-Cherry and say, hey, look we have done this investment at the intersection of
Overland and Meridian at the local level, we did split corridor phase one at the local
level, the interchange is just a phase in split corridor phase two, would be phases three
and four. So, trying to roll that into this match as well. There is an eight million dollar
project right there. So, they are exploring that and trying to see how they can kind of
craft that in the application, but even with that, again, they are still looking for something
where we can hang our hat and say here is what we bring to the game. They said that
the landscape maintenance wouldn't count towards a match. That's something post
construction that isn't considered part of that required minimum 20 percent required, 40
percent that they are trying to get to for a match, so -- and, then, I also spoke to you or
Robert spoke hopefully spoke to you about including some monies that we will most
likely be getting back from the Locust Grove Road overpass. I have known for some
time now that there has been some cost savings with that project and I have been trying
to get from ITD a dollar amount of what we expect to get back. There were I think six
different funding sources and they are trying to figure out who gets what back and how
much and who contributed and all that. So, I have been waiting to tell you all that until
had good news and, hey, we are getting a check for this amount of dollars, but -- or if it
was nothing, then, I wouldn't have told you, so -- but, anyway, this letter I guess what
I'm asking is that we could amend the draft letter that you all received to include -- it
sounds like we got unanimous support from the Council and the Mayor to go ahead and
amend the letter to say whatever money we get roll it into that project. That project is a
safety project, it's also an important project, as was Locust Grove, it's important to our
community, we want that money reinvested for that transportation project, too. So, I'm
going to make that. I don't know we need much discussion there. I have heard from all
of you that you're okay with that and any other partnerships that you think we could
bring to include in the letter or we can leave it as is, but, again, they asked to bring it up
again, so I'm bringing it up.
De Weerd: Did they ask you to look for a match?
Hood: Madam Mayor, not to my knowledge. I don't know if that was a question or not,
but I don't think they have reached out to other communities, but --
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July 27, 2010
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De Weerd: I'm sorry, it kind of slipped.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor and Caleb, real quick, you talked about landscape and it's not
a match, you consider that post-construction, but the infrastructure -- if you are going to
have landscape, the waterscape, the piping, all that to make that happen, is during
construction and so was that out as well? Even though it's done during the construction
time frame and part of the infrastructure?
Hood: Madam Mayor, Councilman Hoaglun, if I understood your question correctly, no,
all that would be considered if we are willing to pay for, you know, the hard cost for that
and the labor to install it. That would all count. It would just be the -- the regular capital
versus operations type thing, so it's more the maintenance would be on an operational
level and wouldn't be eligible. But all of the things that you just mentioned would be
eligible.
Hoaglun: And sometimes they are doing that and we don't have to pay for it, but
sometimes what we pay we definitely want to capture that.
Hood: Every time the state has paid for it in the past, it would just be -- it would be
some way that we could bring something to the table, so --
Hoaglun: You know, like thinking of Ten Mile, if we -- the reuse water, you know, that
sort of thing where we can demonstrate where we can find it.
Hood: Yeah.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Caleb, did you say that ITD is going to provide nine million?
Hood: Roughly. I heard 25 percent and the project's roughly 35 million dollars. So,
that's a ballpark. But they -- I have heard 25 percent of the cost is what they are coming
up with for match.
Rountree: And the match requirement for the particular grant is only 20 percent?
Hood: Minimum 20 percent.
Rountree: Okay. I guess I'll make a couple of comments. One, I do not believe that
this rule or limit or exaction, if you will, is anything more than the thrifty nature of a
particular district engineer. I do not believe it's the position of the ITD board, because
don't think they have made a position known on this particular item. You did indicate
when we talked previously that ITD that was holding out that we would have to pay for
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2010
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the landscaping on this particular project and that would be considered part of the
match as well, if I recall our conversation correctly, and that is not necessarily the
position of the transportation board, as near as I can find in talking to their records
keepers, there has been no change in their policy. Their policy allows them to do that.
So, it seems that there is some fixation on this, we have got to do more than the 20
percent in order to get the grant. I think we have done our 20 percent with the eight
million dollars that has been invested locally to make a new interchange work and
connect to the existing local system, because if we hadn't done that, then, they would
have to be spending that money and that would have to be part of the grant to make the
thing work anyway. So, I think it's not good logic to just throw that out. I think that's
something that we as locals can hang up and say, hey, we have spent our money to
make this thing work, now we need the middle piece done. Just as the state needs that
middle piece done to make their entire system four lanes, as opposed to having a three
lane choke point at Meridian interchange. So, I'm not sure that we as a local or ACRD
or anybody else needs to pony up anymore money, I think the money that we might
have left over from Locust Grove, which I don't think is going to be a lot, I think that's
fine, it goes there, it's, basically, off the books anyway. I don't have a problem with that.
But I think if we -- let them get their nose under our tent, so to speak, that's the end of
the story for us in any future negotiations for any kind of improvements on the state
highway systems personally.
De Weerd: Any other comments? I think you said it.
Hood: So, if I heard the comments correctly, I think we will go with the letter that I have
got drafted up now, but add in the Locust Grove, that we will roll that in, so -- and there
will be a follow-up letter. I mean this letter is addressed to ITD Chairman Manning. We
will follow right up of a support letter for their application and we can talk about more of
the local infrastructure investments and why we think this is a good project and all .the
other -- you know, three pages worth of why we support this project. This is addressed
to ITD on how -- primarily how we can partner with them. So, those are the changes I
will make and expect another one, though, sometime later this fall after the application
is submitted or -- in August sometime, probably, so --
Rountree: I guess the point I'm trying to make is that it's not only a demonstration of
how we can partner with them, but how we have already partnered with them.
Hood: Right. And the third item I'd like follow up on you all with -- the ACRD draft
budget for FY-11, I did send you an a-mail summarizing that draft budget. It does look
like 2011 it's going to be about 84 million dollars. It looks like they are leaning towards
not taking the three percent property tax increase. I do want to -- you know, it is draft
form. It's -- they still -- I went to a work session a couple weeks ago and they are talking
about, you know, some of their operating costs and how with some of the increases in
insurance rates and things like that, how are they going to make it equitable and
balance everything. So, I don't want to make it sound like it's a done deal, so I
apologize if the a-mail came out that way that it was approved, they are still
contemplating some of that and I think there is another work session tomorrow on it,
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July 27, 2010
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too. But for -- for a quick snapshot, there it is and I guess if there is any next steps you
want to take, the one caveat Iwould -- that I called out in the memo and, then, I will just
state again, is if one of the things that they have -- their finance department proposed
budget that if they take the three percent, here is everything we could do and alternative
B or option two was if we don't do that here is what we would have to cut. We could
have done it the other way and said, well, here is what we do and -- but, anyway, one of
those things that gets not cut, but some funds get taken away from -- it's split corridor
phase two. That currently is scheduled over two years to acquire the right of way. They
take about 368,000 dollars away in 2011 to balance their budget in hopes that they can
pick that back up in 2012, so it doesn't delay the project or potentially can get back on
construction track, but I just wanted to let you know about that and -- so, I will leave it
there, because you probably read about it, too, so if there is any next steps or anything
you want me to do regarding ACHD's budget, or information you want me to gather, if
not I will move on.
De Weerd: Anything from Council?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: No.
De Weerd: Okay.
Hood: And, then, quickly, too -- and this is going to be -- you have all probably heard
about this now on your various committees and commissions that you sit on, but there is
four grant opportunities out there. We talked about one, that's the TIGER two grant.
There is another TIGER two planning grant that COMPASS is going to go after. There
is another one that I want to highlight for just a minute, the sustainable community plan
grant. That is a grant for up to five million dollars for a regional plan to -- you know,
everything sustainability and it's DOT and HUD and EPA that are all partnering and
giving these planning grants to regions. Has a bunch of livability principals. I
mentioned to the Mayor and Councilman Bird that I would be willing to sit on this
committee and dedicate some staff time to it. I still don't know what all that involves. It
encompasses trying to get their arms around it. I did go to the first meeting today of that
group. They are asking for level -- a letter from the city for partnership already, though,
this application's due July -- or, excuse me, August 23rd. So, the time to put this
together isn't great. And they also wanted to think about our role in this and I, quite
honestly, don't know what our role in it is. It encompasses houses, economic
development, land use, just the whole gamut, which I think is great, if the region can
come together and do a plan like that. But as far as what the city's role is, I don't know.
We can tell them what plans we have, what studies we have, tell them we are willing to
coordinate where we can with universities and other research facilities and consultants
and whatever, but I don't want to go too far down that road or what other resources
maybe we could offer up, because I don't really know what they are, other than staff
time. I do think that MDC would be a good partner in this. I think CCDC is going to be
at the table, as well as, you know, Sage and BSU and U of I and a whole bunch of other
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2010
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partners, but the reason I bring it up to you is I think you will hear more about it. I don't
think it's going to go away and I think we stand a pretty good chance of getting this
grant. Some of the other ones are -- at the federal level I think they are moving more
towards this and they'd like to see communities think about planning on the regional
level and comprehensively, meaning all these different aspects in one plan, not just
along the transportation plan that doesn't interact, you know, with their land use plan.
So, what I'd like to do away and what I would caution us about doing is with this grant
you can request about ten percent of this, again -- five million dollars tops. If we have
any plans or studies that we want to go after or something we want to earmark, if you
will, in this planning grant, say, hey, we really want to dive into this aspect and we need
to hire a specialist to look at this or that, there is an opportunity for that here. The way
the money is going to be funneled through this process is --finance is going to kill me if
we start requesting for money like this, because the administrative time to go into it and
put all the -- you know, here is what we did on this date and that date. I think we want
to stay away from that. I think we can keep it to in kind staff and we will help you out
where we can. I think that's great. But unless you have some pet project you want to
study in depth and go after something that's 500,000 dollars or more you can think of,
think we just -- we partner, but we are at this level. We are helping facilitate, but not
necessarily knee deep in it and, quite honestly, I don't have a lot of staff time right now
to dedicate to it. So, I'm going to do what I can to help them out, it's not going to be
over the top. So, I just wanted to give you that -- a heads up and you all probably saw
the a-mail, too, at least a couple of you probably saw it from Matt outlining these as well,
so some of that I'm not telling you what you don't already know, but --
Hoaglun: I just might -- one thing that was mentioned earlier tonight -- and I agree, your
staff time is limited, do what you can, but, you know, that composting facility on a
regional basis, you know, is that -- does that include something like- that? I mean we
talked about that earlier and that's a pressing need for this community. I'm sure other
communities would like that, but that's just off the top of my head, but it sounds like we
are -- we are going after the money, but we don't have the purpose yet and that's
always tough.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I think that's a good one. A question would be would a Linder overpass
qualify for what you're talking about?
Hood: Madam Mayor, Councilman Zaremba, this is more a -- like I said, a planning
grant to look at the study. Certainly COMPASS is looking at this as a way to update
CIM for the next update, so 2013, 2014, which will be starting here this fall.
Transportation is just one element, though. So, it's not for construction projects
necessarily, but it would be -- I don't even know what plan means. It's going to probably
be pretty hefty, so -- but I could see that being an element within the transportation, but
it is more a planning grant to put together something that looks at how your
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July 27, 2010
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transportation network interacts with your housing, interacts with your environment,
interacts with your economic development and getting everybody, you know, on the
same page with those things in communicating. So, indirectly, yes, but they wouldn't be
studying the overpass necessarily or looking any further -- or anymore at that than what
the regional long range transportation plan currently does, so -- okay. That was my
update there. Again, I would recommend that we submit a letter saying we support this
and we will partner with you, but it's going to be pretty -- a paragraph, maybe two. And
so an update, you have all probably seen the newspapers. ACHD on the 21st, voting
unanimously to go with the no build on 3-C's river crossing. And, then, the last thing
that I want to bring up is not in the memo, but has been in the works for, I don't know,
the past few weeks anyway, if not a couple months, but Ten Mile roadway widening,
call it the gap project, but it's between the realigned Overland and ITD's interchange at
Ten Mile. There would be a section of two lane roadway that would -- it would neck
down to two lanes and go back out at the intersection if ACRD didn't have a project
going on. Diane is still here. Diane Bevins with ACHD is still here tonight. She's a
project manager on that project, but there is a cost share agreement, a license
agreement. What we have kind of worked out now is, really, no different than any
previous agreements that the city's entered into. ACHD as of March 27 -- May 27th has
a cost share agreement or cost share policy, excuse me. So, that is referenced in this
agreement, but it's essentially the same thing as a lot of pre-cost share stuff that the city
signed. What I'd like to do tonight is I think you got the most recent version of that. It's
got the blessing from our legal team and I'd like to just --
De Weerd: It must be good.
Hood: Well -- and I'd just like to see if there were any comments. I think tonight what
we will do is we will discuss that and if there is anything that we need to iron out, we can
iron it out and put it on a future agenda, if you're all good with it and, then, we can put it
on a Consent Agenda at your next meeting. So, maybe just real quickly what I will.
highlight in that agreement -- there are really two transportation components that the
city is responsible for and we are agreeing to fund and pay for the additional costs
associated with design, construction, and maintenance of landscaping improvements for
the project, which are two center medians that would, basically, mirror the north side of
the interstate at Ten Mile, as well as interim improvements to the detached parkway
strip on the -- on the west side of the roadway until those properties develop. Those are
all currently Ada County in Ada County. So, essentially, what it would be is spraying
them for weeds once a year, maybe twice a year, until we can budget through parks for
the installation of landscaping in those two center medians at sometime in the future.
The conduit is part of what we would be installing and what's in the draft budget for FY-
11 that Steve brought to you. So, phase two of that would be the insulation of the
landscape materials, but -- so, that's what we are really talking about that the estimated
costs are right around 100,000 dollars total for that. Again, phase one for the conduit is
about 27,000. And, then, what we don't quite know -- and maybe since Diane is here
we can ask her -- is Section 1.2.1 it talks about an interim treatment for that median
area and I guess my question is is dirt okay for an interim treatment or is the highway
district expecting something grandiose if we are going to come back in in the next
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2010
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couple three to five years and landscape it anyways or --and maybe that's -- maybe she
can think about that or if you want her to come forward and answer that, but that's my
only concern with what was added is what is acceptable to ACRD interim treatment for
that area. If we are going to be investing in a weed barrier and rock and we got to bring
in all this stuff and it's going to cost us thousand of dollars anyway and we are going to
rip it out next year, that doesn't seem to be right. But if they are okay with just, you
know, we will grade it and we will keep the weeds down for -- until we can pay for the
landscaping, I think we are okay with the agreement. So, I'll finish my presentation
there, see if you have any comments on the cost share agreement, and, then, we will go
from there.
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Madam Mayor. Does the cost that you identified in terms of what the --
basically the plumbing in the planter are going to cost, does that take into consideration
a reduction of versus what ACHD would have to do if they were just simply going to put
in a paved surface and a median in terms of striping? Is there a differential? So, that's
factored out of what we would pay?
Hood: Madam Mayor and Councilman Rountree, I do not -- I haven't seen that side-by-
side comparison of what it would cost. I do know there will be -- if I were to guess it's
probably going to be close to a wash, because they got to put the curbing in, you know,
set some forms around it, whatnot, so -- but I haven't seen that side by side to know we
are not getting a credit, if you will, for whatever it would have cost for the asphalt to put
that down -- that center turn lane that would be there otherwise. I can let you know
what we are also getting out of this, though, essentially, is a credit from ACHD is they
are buying the additional couple feet we need on the west side of the roadway, so we
can detach the sidewalk and not just have an attached sidewalk. So, the additional
couple of feet we need or want for this, they are charging us for that right of way. So,
just kind of factoring in all those things out, not having a -- you know, a sheet that says
here is what your responsibilities -- I think it probably washes that way and what it really
comes down to is we are just paying for the greening up of those areas. So, know that
they are willing to put the rest of it in. So, I haven't seen that. Maybe Diane has done
that work and knows what the difference is, but I don't think so.
Rountree: She's nodding her head yes.
De Weerd: Diane, do you want to make -- we keep referring to you and, then, moving
into another topic or discussion.
Bevins: Madam Mayor, Council Members, I'm Diane Bevins. As Caleb mentioned, I'm
the project manager of this project. And we did do a cost comparison for the medians,
because they are not warranted, they are at the request of the city for landscaping and it
is, essentially, a wash. When we did -- for the bays and the asphalt and all that versus
the curb and it's essentially the same amount, so we agree to construct the medians at
no extra cost to the city and with the idea that the city would landscape that and so
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2010
Page 52 of 53
some kind of treatment there. And to answer your other question, the buffers, we --
ACHD doesn't really have a strong preference on what goes in there in the interim, but
with the medians, you know, we can't leave a hole there, we have to do something to
treat the medians in the interim conditions for safety.
De Weerd: So, dirt would be okay.
Bevins: In the medians? I'm not -- that's what I'm not sure about. We'd have to check
on the medians, get approval.
Hood: And certainly we wouldn't want to leave a safety hazard. I mean that's -- we
were thinking, you know, grading it up to the bottom or so of the curb to keep that
graded with the road, but -- you know, we don't want to be putting anything in there that
we are just going to have to rip back out in an interim. So, yes, you can get back to us
and we will figure that out and, then, put it on the agenda in a couple weeks, unless --
are there other questions or things we need to work out here or are you guys okay with
that? And that being said, you know, I guess that pause wasn't long enough, but the
cost share -- you know, the whole cost share policy, we may need to have another
discussion about that. I would like to keep those kind of separate, though. I mean the
whole disagreement, I'd like to move forward. I'd like the project to move forward. There
may be some things in the cost share agreement that the city doesn't necessarily
concur with and I think we could talk about that with the ACHD commissioners at a joint
meeting if you all want to, but -- but my opinion is this agreement is solid and it's fair, it's
right, and I would recommend that we -- we sign it once we can figure out what an
interim treatment -- as long as interim treatment isn't fully landscaping it right now or
something, so --
De Weerd: Any concerns?
Rountree: No.
De Weerd: I think I agree it's fair. Thank you, Diane.
Hood: That's all I have, Mayor, unless there is any other comments or questions or
anything else.
De Weerd: No.
Hood: Thank you.
Item 10: Other Items
A. Executive Session per Idaho State Code 67-2345 (1)(fl - To
Consider and Advise Its Legal Representatives in Pending
Litigation
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2010
Page 53 of 53
De Weerd: Thank you, Caleb
Session. Do I have a motion?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Okay. Under other items we have an Executive
Bird: I move we go into Executive Session as per Idaho State Code 67-2345(1)(f).
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. Madam Clerk, will, please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
EXECUTIVE SESSION: (9:54 p.m. to 10:18 p.m.)
Rountree: Move to come out of Executive Session.
Hoaglun: Second.
De Weerd: All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIES: ALL AYES.
Rountree: Move to adjourn.
Hoaglun: Second.
De Weerd: All those in favor? All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 10:18 P.M.
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