HomeMy WebLinkAbout2010 08-10Meridian City Council Workshop Meeting August 10, 2010
A meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:00 p.m., Tuesday,
August 10, 2010, by Mayor Tammy De Weerd.
Members Present: Mayor Tammy De Weerd, President David Zaremba, Keith Bird,
Brad Hoaglun, and Charlie Rountree.
Others Present: Bill Nary, Jaycee Holman, Anna Canning, John Overton, James Leslie,
Mark Neimeyer, Tom Barry, Clint Dolsby, Steve Siddoway, and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
X David Zaremba X Brad Hoaglun
X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
X Mayor Tammy De Weerd
De Weerd: I will go ahead and call this regular City Council workshop meeting to order.
For the record, it is Tuesday, August 10th. It's 6:15 -- or 6:14. We will start tonight's
regular meeting with roll call attendance.
Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance
De Weerd: Item 2 is our Pledge of Allegiance. If you will all rise and join us in the
pledge.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
Item 3: Adoption of the Agenda
De Weerd: Item 3 is adoption of the agenda.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Just a couple of items to make note of the agenda for this evening. Under
Item 7 we -- under A, we have an A-1, 7-A-1, which is resolution number 10-735 and
that's a resolution adopting the fee schedule of the Meridian Parks and Recreation
Department and under Item 9-A, ordinances, that is Ordinance No. 10-1452. And with
that, Madam Mayor, I move adoption of the agenda as presented.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda as stated. All those in
favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
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August 10, 2010
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MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 4: Consent Agenda
A. Approve Minutes of July 6, 2010 City Council Budget Hearing
B. License Agreement with Nampa Meridian Irrigation District
(NMID) for Water and Sewer Line Replacement on West
Broadway Avenue from Meridian Road to Northwest 8th Street
C. Agreement for Independent Contractor Services with Cascade
Pipeline Corporation for the Broadway Avenue Water and
Sewer Line Replacement Construction for aNot-To-Exceed
Amount of $485,057.00
D. Agreement Regarding the Split Corridor Pump Station with
Star Construction, LLC for aNot-to-Exceed Amount of $72,340
AND Contract Amendment to Original Contract Dated August
10, 2010 for aNot-to-Exceed Amount of $62,920.42
E. First Addendum to the Reimbursement Agreement Dated June
18, 2010 Regarding the Irrigation Pump Station for the Split
Corridor Project Phase One Landscaping Between Meridian
Development Corporation and The City of Meridian
F. Task Order #10193 for the Sewer Main Replacement Project
with Civil Survey Consultants, Inc. Under the Master
Agreement Dated April 13, 2010 for aNot-To Exceed Amount
of $124,760.00
G. Change Order #2 to the Original Contract Approved by City
Council on April 7, 2009 for the Amount of 2,869,000.00 with JC
Constructors, Inc. for Tertiary Filters Project Construction for
a Not-To Exceed Amount of $81,883.63
H. Intergovernmental Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) with
the City of Garden City for Use of Meridian Police Department
Canine Holding Facility
De Weerd: Item 4 is the Consent Agenda.
Haaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
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August 10, 2010
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Hoaglun: We do not have any changes to the Consent Agenda, so I move to approve
the Consent Agenda and that the Mayor be authorized to sign and the Clerk to attest.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda. If
there is no discussion, Madam Clerk, if you will call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 5: Community Items/Presentations
A. U.S. Census Recognition of City of Meridian's Efforts in 2010
Census
De Weerd: Under Item 5 we have our Community Items Presentation and I will ask
Luke if he would like to come forward. It is our pleasure to send Luke to Seattle this
week to accept on the City of Meridian's behalf to plaque that will be presented by the
U.S. Census Committee and, Luke, I will let you give the details.
Cavener: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Mr. President, Members of Council. As the Mayor
De Weerd mentioned, I will be leaving tomorrow afternoon to go to Seattle for the wrap
up is the best way to put it, from the Meridian Census' efforts. As you may or may not
know, Meridian had 83 percent count rating, which is not only the highest in the state,
but the highest in the west, and Zee Quintana, who is the lead program specialist who is
one of the people that assisted Meridian with our complete count efforts, is here tonight
to presented a plaque and I'll turn it over to her and let her share the information.
Quintana: Well, thank you. Thank you, Lucas. And we are pleased to have Lucas
come to Seattle tomorrow to work with the people that are there to represent region --
our region is five states, northern California, Washington, Oregon, north Alaska, and
Idaho and he will represent one of five cities in Idaho and work with that committee
there in order to have an impact as to what went well, what didn't go so well, and try to
impact the 2020 census. But I'm here tonight to present a certificate of appreciation to
the City of Meridian and I will hand that to you and that is for the work that the
committee has done and the City of Meridian will benefit. It's 1,400 dollars per person
for the next ten years that is counted that that is potential federal dollars that can come
into communities, local communities, and that's -- this is why we have been working in
Idaho is to bring federal dollars to Idaho and to Meridian.
De Weerd: I will say, you know, that 83 percent, our response rate, that's compared to
Idaho had a 75 percent response rate, as compared to nationally it was 73 percent. So,
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August 10, 2010
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our community really stood up and was counted nationwide in the next ten years, that
means four trillion dollars of investment into communities. So, that's why it was so
important to get an accurate count, to get people to participate. Those funds go
anywhere from education to programs like you will hear tonight with the Community
Development Block Grant funds. So, we appreciate you being here tonight and
certainly, Luke, in coordinating our committee and it's great to see that we have very
civic minded citizens in our community.
Quintana: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you for being with us tonight.
Item 6: Items Moved From Consent Agenda
De Weerd: There were no items moved from the Consent Agenda.
Item 7: Action Items
A. Public Hearing: Proposed 2010 Meridian Parks and Recreation
Department Fee Schedule
De Weerd: So, we will move into Item 7 under Action Items. Our first item is a public
hearing on the proposed 2010 Meridian Parks and Recreation Department fee schedule
and ask Allison to, please, join us up front.
Kaptein: Good evening, Madam Mayor and Members of the Council. I am here before
you this evening to show you guys the new fees that we have. As you know, previously
we were coming to you once a year with our yearly changes to the fee schedule, but
under the advisement of the legal department we are now going to be coming every
time a new activity guide publishes, so that will be in the fall, in the winter, so it will be
August, December, and March-April, as we need to have any changes to the fees or
new fees approved before we assess them to the public. So, I just have a few fees that
are changed, so it will be just a few changes each time and, then, we will probably do
one big master change in the spring. So, I will show you guys -- I think you all received
a copy of the schedule in your packet, but I can pull it up on the overhead now. I think.
Let me -- so, you can see here in the gray highlighted area is the fees that have been
changed and. the new fees and there are also two other softball tournament fees in
addition to the ones on the screen now that are listed in your packet.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions or -- are those all -- are these all new,
Allison?
Kaptein: The ones that -- if you see on the -- the far right column that say new are all
new and, then, the ones that have a percent change in the far right column are not new,
but have had a positive or negative change to the cost of the class for various reasons.
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De Weerd: Okay.
Hoaglun: Allison?
Kaptein: Yes.
Hoaglun: Just a quick question on the -- the Camp Mer-IDA-Moo winter edition.
Kaptein: Uh-huh. Yes.
Hoaglun: I notice we got dollars increase on one and five on the other and it's just -- is it
because they are there an hour and a half earlier and an hour and a half later or --
actually, two and a half hours later in the afternoon. It's just the length of time that --
Kaptein: Right.
Hoaglun: -- is the only difference in that.
Kaptein: Right.
Hoaglun: Okay.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions from Council?
Rountree: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. This is a public hearing. Is there any member of the
public who would like to testify or comment on this item? Okay. Council?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we close the public hearing on the 2010 Parks and Recreation Department
fees schedule.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and second to adopt -- or to close the public hearing. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: We do have Resolution No. 10-735 in front of you, Council, for your action
tonight.
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Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve Resolution No. 10-735.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to the approve Resolution 10-735. Any
discussion? Seeing none, Madam Clerk.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
B. Close Public Hearing and Comment Period on PY2010
Community Development Block Grant (CDBG) Action Plan
That Began on June 22, 2010
C. PY2010 Community Development Block Grant (CDBG) Action
Plan Adoption
De Weerd: Okay. Item 7-B is to close the public hearing and comment period on the
2010 Community Development Block Grant action plan that began on June 22nd. We
will ask for staff comments at this time.
Canning: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: You might notice a new face over there.
Canning: Madam Mayor, before Lori jumps in, I did want to introduce Lori den Hartog to
those of you who don't know her. She has taken over Matt's portion -- or the portion of
Matt's job concerned with CDBG administration. Lori comes to us most recently from
the Mayor's office, for which Robert may never forgive me, and, then, previous to that
worked for ACHD for awhile, so she's got all sorts of skills and talents and we are very
excited to have her doing CDBG grant administration.
De Weerd: Thank you, Lori, for joining us and for training -- being a trainer in my office,
but who is keeping track of that.
den Hartog: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, one quick question. I would like
to be able to handle action item 7-B and 7-C together. I will present them together and
if we can make a motion at the end, if that's possible.
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Bird: Okay with me.
Rountree: Good.
den Hartog: Good. The item before you this evening is the 2010 annual action plan for
the city's Community Development Block Grant program. The draft action plan was
presented to the City Council on June 22nd, at which time the public hearing and the
comment period were opened. The City of Meridian was granted 273,368 dollars for the
coming year, which begins October 1st of 2010. Through the action plan the city has
proposed dividing the allotted funds amongst four items. Administration planning, public
facilities, specifically the Five Mile Creek pathway. Public services, specifically the
Meridian Food Bank. And affordable housing, which goes towards homeownership
assistance. The affordable housing dollars are divided between the Boise City, Ada
County Housing Authority and neighborhood housing services through their lender and
HS Lending. Each of the items meets the allowable percentages and they are
consistent with the initial draft that was presented on June 22nd. The city did receive
two comments on the draft plan. These comments are now included in the summary --
in summary form in the action plan. Neighborhood housing services provided
comments and support of the plan, as well as requesting clarification on a few items.
The items have been addressed in the plan that's presented before and, in addition, the
Meridian Food Bank provided comments and support of the city's program and the Food
Bank thanked the city for its continued support of their services. There have been a few
other minor typographical changes that were made to the draft plan as it was presented
on June 22nd. Those have been corrected. A highlight for the coming program year is
the city will be preparing its consolidated plan. This is a program requirement for
entitlement communities. The city's previous consolidated plan was for years 2007
through 2011. The city will be undergoing preparation of the consolidated plan, which
will provide guidance for program years 2012 through 2016. During the budget process
for fiscal year 2011, the Council has approved a line item of 20,000 dollars for
preparation of this plan. In addition, we may use some our administration and planning
dollars already allotted. With that I'd like to request that the public hearing opened on
June 22nd be closed, unless we have other testimony this evening, and that the
program year 2010 action plan be adopted as presented and that the Mayor and
Council direct staff to send the final action plan to HUD on August 11th for their review
and approval.
De Weerd: Thank you, Lori. Is there any member of our audience here to testify or
provide comment on this plan tonight? Okay. If you will, please, state your name and
address for the record.
Warner: Liz Warner at 2408 North 25th, Boise, and I'm here for the Meridian Food Bank
and I just wanted to say thank you, basically, that, you know, when the economic
downturn started a couple years ago, the demand for food increased 221 percent just
with -- with our food bank and we could not have take care of those people without the
help you have given us, so I just wanted to tell you thank you so such, we appreciate
your help.
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De Weerd: Thank you, Liz. We appreciate your involvement with the food bank. I do
want Council to know that the housing authority has stated that they have had a very
successful program and they would like to come and report to you in the coming weeks,
so you can see how that money has been spent and they wanted to come and give
accountability to it. Okay. Well, Council, if there is no further questions, comments,
from the public, I would entertain a motion to close this public hearing and comment
period.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we close the public hearing on the CDBG action plan.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion
carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move we adopt the 2010 action plan as presented and direct staff to move
forward with sending it to HUD for approval.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second. Any discussion on this motion?
Madam Clerk, will you, please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 8: Department Reports
A. Public Works: Update on Meridian and Main Split Corridor
Phase II
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De Weerd: Under Item 8, Department Reports, we will start with A, which is our Public
Works Department, who will give an update on the Meridian and Main split corridor
phase two project. But that doesn't look like Tim. Mr. Barry.
Barry: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. You may recall some
weeks ago we came before you with this topic on back flow prevention and dual
connection devices --
Canning: I'm sorry.
Rountree: Split corridor.
Canning: Split corridor is --
Barry: Doggone it. I'm so excited about the -- we will have Mr. Kerns come up from
Public Works. I get an opportunity to introduce him. Where is he at? Mr. Kerns. You
know Mr. Kerns. He will talk to you about split corridor.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Barry. That's nice that you came to recognize your staff.
Kerns: Appreciate the comic relief. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this
evening we have Adam Saragoza here from ACHD, who is going to give us a little
update on split corridor and kind of where we are. And, then, we have some additional
discussion at the end there related to bike lanes, so -- and I will come back up for that,
so --
De Weerd: Okay.
Kerns: -- with that, Adam Saragoza.
De Weerd: Thank you, Tim. Good evening, Adam.
Saragoza: Good evening, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. For the record,
Adam Saragoza, ACHD. Here to give you a brief update of where we are at with the
phase two of the split corridors project.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Saragoza: We did receive 99 percent roadway plan back in June that did give us the
availability to go ahead and start the right of way staking. If you have been over at
Meridian Road and Cherry intersection you will see the stakes for the right of way lines
and the temporary construction easements out there on those properties. What that
was enable us to do is get ahead a little bit of the right of way game where we can start
acquiring the necessary right of way starting October 1st.
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Kerns: This information is also in your Council packet towards the end there we have
the graphic.
Saragoza: And just to go over some features of the split corridor. Working south --
here, I'm just going to go over -- working south to north on the southside here is Franklin
Road and, then, heading north towards City Hall, which is at this point right here. We
have the couple features of the triangle areas that are currently -- will be vacated. Right
now what we have got in those triangle areas as part of the design, is just to be asphalt
asked. So, there is that location there and this location right here.
Hoaglun: Adam -- Madam Mayor. Real quick. That one you just pointed to, that
seemed a lot larger triangle. Do you know how big that one happens to be?
Saragoza: Madam Mayor, Councilman Hoaglun, both of them are about 12,000 square
feet.
Hoaglun: All right. Thank you.
Saragoza: As we continue moving north you can see how the sidewalk condenses
down right here in this -- that triangle right there. The plan for that is just to match the
red pedestrian concrete as out back of City Hall. Part of the requirements with the
railroad and coordinating with them is they would not allow any site obstructions within
300 feet of the railroad. Continuing going north. Pine Avenue is right here. Basically in
this section not too many design features as the roadway is centered up on the existing
section lines, so there will be a little bit of right of way acquired from both the east and
west side property owners.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Would you define little bit?
Saragoza: Pardon?
Rountree: How much is a little bit?
Saragoza: Oh, we are looking at about ten to twenty feet per property. Just going into
the property.
Rountree: Okay.
Hoaglun: And Madam Mayor and Adam, is that ten to twenty feet on each side or is
that total?
Saragoza: That is ten to twenty feet on each side.
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Hoaglun: Okay. Thank you.
Saragoza: And up at the Cherry and Meridian and Main Street and Fairview
intersections, one item feature that will come out as part of the project is the free right.
You can kind of see the outline right there, but that will come out. I have been working
with your staff in developing a plan for that area as the project comes up for
construction. Other than that, not too many total takes with the project. There is,
obviously, the total take properties that are in the cross-over area and Westy's Bicycle
Shop at this corner right here is anticipated to be a total take. I have been working with
MDC over the last couple of weeks on their widening design for the downtown core. We
have been coordinating our design plans with them and about a month ago we were
approached by Public Works about the possibility of opening up Nine Mile Creek in
downtown. Nine Mile Creek runs almost parallel to the cross-over like so. Other than
that, I can stand for questions and I will turn it back over to Tim.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Just with your pencil on the drawing that's there indicate where traffic that is
southbound on Main Street will cross over to Meridian. I'm not understanding the traffic
pattern. You don't have to draw it on there, just -- just wave your pen around that area.
So, they go there and they go all the way over to Meridian on that street. Okay.
Saragoza: Yeah. That's correct.
Zaremba: Thank you.
Bird: Ada is completely through? Excuse me. Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Bird: Ada goes all the way through?
Saragoza: Correct. Ada will go through to Meridian. It will be one way westbound at
that location.
Bird: Follow up.
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
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Bird: What kind of an intersection there? Stop? Two way stop? Four way stop -- or
three way stop? No. Here. Back at your -- where the -- over. No. Yeah. The next
one. Right there.
Saragoza: That will be a stop for that location. The traffic running on the cross-over will
have the right of way.
Bird: Okay.
De Weerd: Any other questions?
Zaremba: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you, Adam.
Saragoza: Okay. With that I'll turn it over to Tim.
De Weerd: Okay. Appreciate you being here tonight.
Kerns: So, with that I just want to talk briefly here about some bicycle connectivity
issues related to the project and at the onset of -- or at least a ways back here in the
design we were looking at a way to provide more bicycle connectivity across the
downtown area related to this project and as you .may know the cross-section for
Meridian Road there after the cross-over does not include any bike lanes, so -- and
that's part of the constrained cross-section. So, we had looked originally at possibly
extending the pathway that -- the first phase of the split corridor constructed the ten foot
multi-use pathway north -- and maybe Ishould -- I believe I have a picture of that
intersection. So, with the first phase of the split corridor you can see right up there at
the top right-hand corner of the picture, that's the ten foot multi-use pathway that comes
in there at Franklin and Main. So, we looked at the possibility of extending that up to
Ada Street, which is where the cross-over diverges away and the situation for those on
bicycles is a little bit more friendly. That possibility -- we explored that with ACHD --
presented anumber of problems with a number of driveways that intersect there and I
have a lot of concern from the traffic operation staff at ACRD about that. So, that
possibility was ruled out and we decided to step back and take a look at kind of the
whole corridor and make sure that we were getting a solution that gets people not just in
and out of downtown, but gets people across town who are on bikes. So, this particular
proposal here has not officially been proposed. to ACHD yet and I just want to get
Council's guidance and opinions and concerns here on this before we do make an
official proposal to ACRD. I believe this is also in the Council packet there, but starting
up at the top there at Fairview, we are looking at the possibility of having a bike route on
Main Street from Fairview all the way down to Broadway, which is a more narrow
section of Main Street and, basically, if you're familiar with the difference between a bike
route and a bike lane, the bike route is, basically, just signage to let people know this is
your way across town. It's not actually designating lane space. That would be the bike
lane. So, there isn't actually room to stripe a bike lane on Main Street between
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August 10, 2010
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Broadway and Fairview. And, then, moving down from Broadway down to Ada Street,
which is where the cross-over occurs, there is room for a bike lane there. In fact, it's
actually a fog line stripe right now, but it's kind of -- it's not signed no parking is what I'm
getting at. So, the change there, if that were to occur, would be that there would no
longer be on-street parking between Broadway and Ada and I will jump back to that
issue in a little bit here. But, then, we wanted to make sure that we were addressing the
needs for both the people who are die hard cyclists who want to get all the way across
downtown and who are pretty much going to ride in the street no matter what and, then,
the folks who are, you know, pushing their strollers and taking their kids more on the ten
foot multi-use path kind of facility who would maybe stick to a safer route. So, the -- as
you see there, the cross-over that occurs at Ada Street prevents us from having a bike
lane southbound on Main. We can have one northbound. So, we wanted to provide an
alternate route for folks to jump over and safely get across Franklin and so that is that
route you see diverging there in purple over to 3rd Street and to a new pedestrian signal
at Franklin. And, then, related to that is also looking at widening the sidewalk in that
stretch between Ada and Franklin, so that those folks who are making their way up as
the more casual users have a wider sidewalk to navigate their route. So, that's,
essentially, what was developed between Matt and myself and ACRD here. But we
haven't officially made a proposal to them. So, anything before I get into the parking
issues here?
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Tim, just -- as I think about it, if I'm at Storey Park riding my bike and I want to
get across town and back to my house, you know, as I think about traffic patterns when
I'm riding a bike, I'd prefer less traffic, as opposed to riding in more traffic. I would
probably take 3rd Street all the way up and, then, cut over to 2 1 /2 Street to reach
Fairview Avenue, as opposed to going to Main Street where I know there is going to be
more traffic. But is that a route you looked at? I mean what are the pros and cons with
doing something like that?
Kerns: Absolutely. Councilman Hoaglun, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, that
is also an option that we can certainly look at and have looked at as well. It's kind of --
there is some pros and cons related to either route there. The pros with Main Street is
that it's more direct for the folks who already in route headed north and it provides that
connectivity without having to change streets, like from 3rd to 2 1 /2 Street all the way up
to Fairview where there is an existing signal there. However, as you have mentioned,
3rd Street definitely has a lot less traffic and also after this project there will be a lot less
demand on Main Street as well. But some of the down sides of that are the railroad
crossing just behind us here, which is a number of tracks, it's a little rough for riding
across and also that jog that you have to make and the lack of a crossing at Fairview,
so --
De Weerd: And the lack of a light at Fairview.
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Kerns: Yeah.
Hoaglun: That's why I was kind of curious. I'm sure there was some down sides to that,
but I guess the bike riders are a lot like the car drivers, there are those who are going
through and there are those that are going to, so --
Kerns: Right.
Hoaglun: -- they are not always the same, so it makes it difficult.
De Weerd: They will take whatever route anyway.
Kerns: And so that also points to the fact that you need to be careful in looking at where
people are going to go no matter what we do and making sure that we accommodate
them as best as we can, you know, given what we have available there to work with.
Hoaglun: And, Madam Mayor, just kind of wrap up on my comments, the best thing is
once we get some of those pathways on Five Mile through there completed and folks
can take those and head to various parts of the city, that makes it much nicer. So, get
them off the streets and have crossings at some of these intersections.
Kerns: Uh-huh.
De Weerd: Any other comments or questions for Tim?
Rountree: Madam Mayor. Tim, could I get a plan size view of your proposal, as well as
a set of plans on the split corridor phase two?
Kerns: Absolutely.
Rountree: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other comments from Council? I guess I sense that Tim wants
direction tonight on if this looks like a favorable proposal to bring to ACHD for their
consideration.
Kerns: And Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, if you would like some more time
to digest things, we can certainly do that. This is a couple years away, so -- and, then,
also I didn't know if you wanted to hear -- we did do some outreach regarding the
parking, if that helps you make -- making any decisions there, too, as well on Main
Street, so --
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Rountree.
Meridian City Council Workshop
August 10, 2010
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Rountree: Excuse me. I'd like some more time. I want to look at the plans and make
sure there aren't any issues that are less than obvious and at that point I will be willing
to comment and provide direction.
Kerns: Absolutely.
Rountree: I'd like to hear what people had to say about parking.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor and Tim, if you brought these to ACHD, this is just a start to
get their dialogue on these things, is that -- was that what you're planning?
Kerns: Yes. It's -- we have had some informal dialogue about what we could do and
what doesn't work and -- but we haven't actually made a request to them to build this
along with the split corridor project. So, that's what we are looking to do is to make a
formal request.
Hoaglun: Well, Iguess -- yeah. A formal request would be different than moving
forward and getting their active participation in terms of looking at that and having
suggestions of maybe some things we ought to be looking at or things we may not have
considered, which I -- I don't mind that dialogue taking place. As far as a formal
presentation and recommendation, Idon't think we are there yet. But I think to get their
input on things that we need to be looking at that they -- as how they look at things is
always a good thing, so --
De Weerd: Tim, have you kind of looked at this in terms of the parking study that was
made with the reduction of on-street parking, even from Broadway to Ada? It takes out
a number of parking spots. How those would be replaced and how that fits with the plan
for the urban renewal district as well.
Kerns: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, we included Shaun Wardle from MDC
and on this topic here and in looking at the availability of parking out there, what it looks
like in the future and at the current time and as was noted in the -- I'm going to mess
this up if I don't look -- Downtown Meridian Transportation Management Plan and the
parking study. The parking utilization in that particular section is very low. Not to say
that there aren't specific businesses along there who have utilization of that parking and
are, you know, very concerned about that. But the main two areas in which -- really, the
main area for parking that is of concern is --
De Weerd: In front of Zamzow's.
Kerns: -- directly outside here at Zamzow's.
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
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Kerns: And in talking with the shop owners out there, I had asked them if -- you know,
basically, what -- what do you see? Well, we see, you know, at least a couple cars an
hour out here. What do you use it for? Well, the furniture shop in particular needs
access for loading, so you don't want to carry a piece of furniture down the street. And
had asked them, you know, if you were able to have your customers use -- utilize other
parking, such as the back of the city parking lot, would that be sufficient do you believe
and -- and the shop owners in particular said, yeah, that could probably work. It's
certainly not our preference, but we have that room that could work. So, I guess -- I
don't know if that totally answered your question, but that's where we went with it and
getting some feedback and that's what I understood from the downtown plan.
De Weerd: Well, we can -- Council, we can reset this to the next workshop. What kind
of timeline are you hoping for, Tim?
Kerns: It would be nice to kind of have an idea of where we are going with this
sometime this fall, but as I mentioned before, the plans for split corridor are pretty much
done. This is probably going to be something that runs in tandem with it, so -- and
construction is a couple years off. So, we definitely have time.
De Weerd: Well, Council, if it sounds like enough time, we can schedule this at the next
workshop for follow-up discussion. I would also see, Tim, if this is an item that the
urban renewal district would like to have discussion on with their board as well. So, if
you can pursue that with their administrator.
Kerns: Absolutely.
De Weerd: Okay.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
Rountree: So, Madam Mayor, we are looking at the 14th of September?
De Weerd: Yeah. Okay. Anything further? Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: One question back on the bicycle. The southbound bicycles, once they
cross Franklin, do they need to go all the way back over to Meridian to get to the
southbound lane? Where do they go from there?
Kerns: And that's probably the funkiest part of this setup that we get just from the -- the
design there, but as we were talking earlier about the die hard cyclists and the more
casual users, the die hard cyclists we would assume that if they are headed south on
Franklin -- or past Franklin on Meridian, they are probably already going to be on
Meridian, they are probably just going to use one of the lanes -- utilize one of the lanes
and --
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August 10, 2010
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Zaremba: That's what I was going to ask is whether the -- the southbound traffic ought
to turn west on Ada instead of going east on Ada.
Kerns: And one of the destinations for -- that we'd assume there, because the
employment center is at the corporate park and just to the east of 3rd there is
Stratford --
Zaremba: Right.
Kerns: -- so that's one of the reasons for that -- why that helps as well, is it gets -- gets
people a way to jump over to Franklin and head east to the neighborhoods over by
Locust Grove, use the Locust Grove overpass, or head down Stratford to the business
park.
Zaremba: Is there anything that precludes us from having a bike route to go both ways?
If you were at the -- if you were southbound on Main and you came to the intersection at
Ada, what if the bike lane not only went east, it also went west? I mean you had a
choice.
Kerns: Oh, it does. That's -- the double lane is there.
Zaremba: Okay.
Kerns: I don't know if that -- or double lines. I don't know if that's clear, but -- so, the
idea is to have the bike route signed for both directions and -- up 3rd and on Ada.
Zaremba: Okay.
De Weerd: Well, I guess my only comment is I hate to see losing parking on Main
Street and if you could maybe have further discussion on re-looking at that. I think long
term if the railroad special use acreage were ever to redevelop, they will be doing
improvements at the railroad crossing on 3rd Street. So, bringing that up to Broadway
and, then, introducing the bikes to Old Town while preserving the on-street parking
would -- would seem in order, but I think your group can discuss that and we can revisit
that next month. Anything further from Council?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: None.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you, Tim.
Kerns: Thank you.
B. Public Works: Dual Connection & Backflow Program Update
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De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Barry.
Kerns: Now back flow.
Barry: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Back again. You may
recall that we visited with you a couple weeks back to talk about the back flow
prevention program and also the dual connect ordinance and got some guidance from
you and took that guidance and went back and did some more research and we have
some updates to share with you this evening that are significant and we wanted to
provide you those updates and also seek some additional direction related to some of
the challenges we have come across since this -- since the last time we met with you
and to do that will be Mr. Richard Dees, he's going to come up and share what we found
and some of the results of the dialogue we have had with some of the homeowners
associations that we have met with since this time as well. So, without further adieu,
Mr. Dees, want to take it away?
Dees: Thank you. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, thanks for having me today
again. We are going to talk about water quality programs. This is, actually, two
presentations squished into one. One of them is going to be talking about back flow
prevention systems and the other one is going to be talking about dual connections.
Our goal is certainly to provide safe drinking water to all of our citizens. We have
75,000, about, citizens in the City of Meridian. We want to make sure they have clean,
safe drinking water at the lowest possible price. We also want to make sure there is fire
flow appropriate so that the fire department can address the fires that happen within our
community. There are many pieces to our water utility and this is just sort of an
overview of what we have inside the water division. Certainly we have water
production. We have 19 active wells right now. We have a distribution system of over
400 miles. We have a fire protection system with 3,500 or so fire hydrants. Then, we
get to the water quality program. The water quality program has several subsections to
it, including back flow prevention, sampling, and monitoring valves, exercising,
education and flushing. We are going to concentrate on the back flow prevention part of
the water quality program. Inside of that program is the back flow assembly testing and
the system integrity and connection checks. So, we are going to drill down into the
water division as we go through this presentation. We will start with the back flow
program first. Back flow program history. It was established as early as 1989. City
Code Title 9, Chapter 3, details responsibilities, as it says there. Customers have the
responsibility in the code to test their own back flow assemblies at their expense. There
is also a penalty for not complying with the -- with the testing and that penalty is a
termination of water services. Dual connective systems are not allowed according to
our code. The program was modified during your City Council meeting on May 3rd,
2005, where we instituted a rebate and -- for assembly testing and maintenance. That's
been funded through the budgetary process, as you know. These are some back flow
conditions that exist. Just wanted to go through them very quickly. First of all, back
siphon is one .that, as you can imagine a hose connected to your hose bib in the
backyard, you take the hose and throw it in a mud puddle and, then, all of a sudden
there is a change in pressure, the stuff in the mud puddle all of a sudden gets sucked
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into your house and into our water system, that's a back siphon. Back pressure is akin
to what happens if you have a pressurized irrigation system, for example, that has more
pressure than our system and it pushes against our supply and pushes irrigation water
into our system. That's back pressure. It's also back siphonage. I guess -- no. No. It's
back pressure. It's also back flow. Excuse me. Back flow. Aback flow condition can
exist from back siphonage and back pressure. Across-connection is where there is a
cross between potable water and nonpotable water. That's what we are trying to
eliminate. This is what happens if there is a back flow assembly mistake. It happened
June 12th, 2009, in Eagle. It happened twice, actually, in Eagle. A person, what
happened, put a back flow preventer in backwards and what happened it, indeed,
siphoned water from the irrigation system into the city supply and about a hundred
homes were affected. As you can see what they did, they issued a boil order, they had
to do some flushing, did a lot of notifications and a lot of testing. Again, this happened
twice in Eagle. And the thing that exacerbated the problem was the fact that the PI
system overpressured the city water supply system. Our current program that we have,
we send out annual testing reminder notices in the mail to everybody who we know that
had a back flow assembly. We send also a list of back flow licensed testers that they
can select from to go have their assemblies tested. They contact the tester, the tester
comes out, they check their device and, then, the tester sends us the bill for that device.
We pay for up to a maximum amount, depending upon the type of device for both
testing and repair of the assembly. When we receive confirmation that that's been
done, we update our database. I wanted to show you some of the devices that are
used in the systems today. This one's called a PVB or a pressure vacuum breaker. It is
used typically where there is not pressurized irrigation. It's one that you may have if you
have just an irrigation system in your home, automatic sprinkler system and you want to
make sure that the back siphonage doesn't occur. A couple of common problems can
affect these things. First of all, the check valve can get old and deteriorate. Debris can
get in that check valve, that spring can get off center, and it will cause -- cause water
from the irrigation symptom to flow back into the water supply. Another type of
assembly is called adouble-check or a double-check valve assembly. This is used on
the low threat devices, such as a fire sprinkler system. You can see the two check
valves there. Water comes in from the right-hand side, it goes to the -- I'm sorry. It
goes to the right and it's the back pressure from the left or if there is debris caught on
the check valve -- of the second check valve, it will slip past that valve and get into that
chamber and that could cause some problems. If the first valve -- first valve fails, then,
you have across-connection happening right there in front of the valve. There is no
atmospheric drain in this valve assembly to eliminate water in case of a failure. The one
we prefer and that we have to have installed for pressurized irrigation systems is this
one. It's called a reduced pressure zone device or an RP device. It also has two to
valves or two check valves, but it also has an atmospheric valve down below there, so
that if the water should get past the first assembly it will go out the bottom part and just
evacuate that way to keep the chamber clear. This is the cost and effectiveness of the
systems that we have so far. At the program inception in 2005 we allocated 200,000
dollars a year for it. Today those costs are in excess of 300,000 dollars a year. We get
about an 86 percent initial compliance of those 6,000 known assemblies. That means
when we send out our letters 86 percent of them get the thing tested. You notice some
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August 10, 2010
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don't on the first time, so we have to send out reminder letters and say, hey, please --
please get that tested. That number usually goes up to about 98 percent after we send
them asecond -- a second letter. This is on our free program. United Water gets 60
percent initial compliance with a customer paid program. They only send out one letter.
The back flow program issue. These are the things that we were tackling with just back
flow prevention. First of all, the reimbursement program is expensive. Three hundred
thousand bucks is a lot of money. Third party tester businesses have been established
solely based on our program. The effectiveness is good. Eighty-six percent on the first
letter is great. It's a great response. We are the only water purveyor in the state that
does that. No else in the state provides testing reimbursement and maintenance fees.
Twenty-three percent of our customers are actually being subsidized by the entire
customer base, because most of the customer base don't have back flow assemblies,
because they don't need them. So, we have a subsidy that's been going on with one
group of customers. These are the alternatives we looked at for the back flow
prevention program as it exists. Keep the program, the -- this is the rebate program.
Keep the program as it exists certainly. Phase the program out over a couple of years
or eliminate the problem now. What we would like you to do and like you to consider is
to end the reimbursement program. We'd like to also have you or have us hold some --
aset of public hearings related to the back flow reimbursement and associated costs,
so we can explain to folks why we are doing what we are doing. Explain what it costs,
what it means, the benefits, and also the downfalls. Rather than have you talk about
this right now, we would like to roll on to the dual connection part of the program,
because you can see these two things -- as you will see these two things are going to
be interlinked. Dual connections. Program goal is to reduce the probability of
introducing some bad things into our water system. We would like to achieve a hundred
percent back flow testing in the process. We have some ordinance related to dual
connections and here they are. Order 9-1-29C talks about the restrictions, it says no
subdivisions, building or lot or parcel of land shall be allowed to also connect if
landscape sprinkler irrigation system to the city's domestic water system is a secondary
source for shoulder season use. It does allow for a single point connection later on and
that's a single point connection in a community. This is another ordinance, 917G, it
says cross-connections are prohibited. No person shall make across-connection. This
would be extremely bad for us, as you can -- as you can probably imagine. We'll see
what a dual connection is. I defined it in words and, then, we -- we have a picture for
you here in just a second. An irrigation system is fed by both nonpotable water sources
and potable water sources and they come together and are separated by a back flow
device, essentially. Dual connections typically exist, because people wish to irrigate
using potable water during the shoulder season. That's what it looks like. This is a
typical dual connection. Here you can see the house there and you can see the water
meter with the domestic water on the bottom and the RP device that's feeding the
irrigation system. Pressurized irrigation system is along the top. During the irrigation
season the valves are set and those valves, by the way, are pretty important things.
You're going to hear about what happens when those valves don't get set right. The
valves are set such that the irrigation system from the pressurized irrigation company
supplies water to the sprinklers, through a timer or whatever device that homeowner
may have and away you go. During the shoulder season when the pressurized
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irrigation leaves, a customer will set the valves accordingly and, then, water his lawn
through domestic water through the RP device. That's called a dual connection. This is
what we would like to have instead. We would like to have the pressurized irrigation
system certainly watering the lawn, but you see up there is the community RP device,
which is serving the entire community through a water meter. That could be a four or a
six inch water meter feeding the entire neighborhood. There is no connection at the
house between the domestic water line and the sprinkler system. This is our dilemma.
This is what the discussion has been all about. Our ordinance prohibit dual
connections. They are pretty clear. Some dual connection systems exist, because
back flow devices were installed before there was PI put in the neighborhood. Some
dual connect systems exist and are still being installed in homes located outside the city
in Ada County that are connected to our water supply. We have some brand new
homes that are built less than a year old and Ada County approved those homes, but
we didn't get to vote whether or not they should have a back flow device installed -- or a
dual connection installed or not. We have unknowingly reimbursed contractors for
testing dual connected systems. There is no way for us to really know which systems
are dual connected and which ones are not by looking at our database as it exists
today. We have not enforced our ordinance as related to dual connections. This has
been going on for several years. Because of the reimbursement program people were
led to believe that the dual connections were allowed. If we don't enforce it and we are
paying for the assembly testing, it's almost a given that, oh, okay, the city's all right with
that, let's proceed on. The last bullet there says dual connection requires homeowner
diligence when operating valves to irrigate during the shoulder season. We have had
instances where customers have pushed more than a million gallons through their water
meter. What's happened is that they forgot to change the valves appropriately and they
are feeding the entire subdivision with their water source from their home. Cost them a
lot of money when that happens. So, that's a pretty important thing to the customer, I'm
sure, to make sure the valves are set correctly. This is a magnitude of -- we think of the
dual connect issue. We estimate that there is about 989 homes involved and those are
the subdivisions that they are involved in. Meridian Greens, Sportsman Point, and the
list continues on. It represents about 3.7 of our customer -- customer -- total customer
base. So, about 900 homes out of 27,000 homes. This is the risk and this is the reason
communities do not dual connect. This comes from California State University,
contamination resulting from back flow of unacceptable substances through cross-
connection to the distribution system has consistently caused more water borne disease
outbreaks in the United States than any other reported factor. There are four main
threats. The first one is Legionella. Legionnaire's Disease. The second one is E. Coli
and, then, there is Giardia and Cryptosporidium. The last two are kind of -- kind of
interesting. The last two are difficult to mitigate. The last two don't react well to chlorine
or other disinfectants. So, if you get one of those in your system it's difficult to get rid of
them through just this infection. You see there is a list of things there that are regulators
want us to do and what Eagle had to do whenever they got a hit on their system. You
got to isolate the area. You have got to report to the regulators. You have to issue a
boil order. Then, you have to flush the system, add decontamination disinfection and,
then, you have got to provide for extended testing. This could run into many thousands
of dollars. The other problem is it's like a needle in a haystack of several haystacks, if
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you have to find out where that particular bug came from. This is what some of the
other communities around us are doing. Kuna water allows dual connections, as long
as they have an approved back flow assembly. Nampa water and irrigation does not
allow them and they strictly enforce that. United Water is not a municipality, but they
serve several municipalities and they do allow dual connections within an approved
back flow assembly. Ada County is not a water purveyor, but they do allow dual
connections in any house that they approve. Caldwell does not allow dual connections.
They grandfathered a handful of homes similar to the condition that we had in the early
'90s -- we have in the early '90s. This is what's happened over the years. Kuna, they
have had no hits. United Water has had two hits over the past five years. I showed you
one of them. Nampa has had none. We had our last incident it was in 1979 before we
had an ordinance. Caldwell had its last incident in 1992 when they got their ordinance.
This is kind of a good news list, because as you can see with several thousands -- tens
of thousands of customers, there is not many hits there. It's pretty benign. And so that
means the back flow assemblies that are installed, if they are installed properly and
tested, they work. They do their job. Cost to homeowners to eliminate a dual
connection. We looked around and called a few contractors. It looks like it's about 300
dollars to remove a dual connected assembly for a typical installation. Atypical
installations can be much higher. An atypical installation might be where you have got
concrete over some pipes and you have to do some jack hammering and you have to
do some rearranging of a lot of landscaping or something like that. The single point
connection is what we'd like to see folks install, but the estimates to install a single point
connection to a community can range anywhere from 14,000 to 20,000 dollars,
depending upon where the water main is and where the PI system is. So, it can be
quite expensive. Some communities might need two single point connections, because
of the dispersion of the customer base. What we did to try to solve the problem is we
assembled a couple of teams. The first team is the city back flow team we will call it
and these are folks from the water division and you can see just about every -- not
every member of the city, but several departments were represented. Development
services, legal, engineering, business operations, finance and we had our plumbing
inspector involved. We appreciated their input. They gave us a lot of ideas and we
beat this thing up over -- over a few sections to try to figure out what to do. The most
significant folks we had helping us out was the stakeholders. We met with the
homeowners -- some homeowners associations on August the 9th to discuss the issues
and you can see who -- who we invited in and had in. We invited all of them in, but
those four came to our facility. We really appreciated what they did.. They gave us not
only some ground truth help to make sure that what we said was right or wrong or
indifferent, but they also gave us some great suggestions and we truly appreciate their
help. Some of them are here this evening. This is our alternative we all came up with.
First of all, we could eliminate the dual connection prohibition and order. We could just
say, you know what, things are safe enough, let's just take it out. We could enforce. the
ordinance as written. We could enforce the ordinances while providing assistance to
homeowners to remove the connections. That assistance would come as financial
assistance, some sort of a co-pay, if you will, to help them take out their dual connected
machines. We could enforce the ordinance and grandfather existing homes with dual
connections. We elected to do the last one. We would like to initiate a campaign to
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describe our program to all of our customers. We could do that through mailings in to
utility bills or our website, through articles in the paper, to let folks know what our
program really is and what it means and what's at stake. We'd like to conditionally
grandfather all homes built prior to August 1st, 2010, the first of this month, to allow dual
connections with approved devices tested annually. The conditions are simply that you
have the right device installed and that you do test them annually. We would like to
provide a six month grace period for homes to opt into our program. While we identified
several subdivisions with dual connections, there are many more, we think, that exist
that we just don't know about. Some folks have them hiding in bushes that haven't told
us about them yet. We like to give folks the opportunity to come forward on an amnesty
basis to say, hey, we have got one of those devices and we'd like to come into your
program, because we know it will be grandfathered. Those not opting in at the end of
the grace period -- and we are thinking six months just initially -- will be required to
remove the dual connected assemblies immediately. How we find those will be kind of
an interesting -- interesting thing. We are going to ask that we buy some software and
do some things to help use our -- use the data that we have to detect who is using water
when they normally shouldn't be using water, if you will. Enforce the annual testing
requirements at the owners expense while we would like to make sure that the owners
are testing the dual -- or, I'm sorry, their assemblies at their expense. We would no
longer be providing them with -- with assistance for testing and maintenance. And
except for the grandfathered homes, enforce our ordinances. Those who are not
grandfathered in they have to comply with everything that we -- we ask. Moreover, we
would like to continue to send out the annual testing and reminder notices to -- of known
assembly owners. We need to work with Ada County to implement our ordinances in
homes that are connected. We have got to have them tell us when people are dual
connecting, so we can say, no, you can't do that in the City of Meridian. We are the
water purveyor, not you. We would like you to consider a due on sale lien to reduce the
number of dual connections over time. This is not unanimous among the homeowners.
They don't necessarily like this particular recommendation, but we think it's one way to
eventually reduce the number of dual connections in our systems over a number of
years. We'd like you to also consider assisting -- having us assist removal of registered
dual connect folks. If folks have a dual connection they want to get rid of it, we'd like
you to consider having us cost share with them to get those assemblies out of the
system. If grandfathered all the dual connection systems must have our RP devices
installed. Those are the safest ones that need to be installed. And we'd like to
reallocate some of the resources we have right now, the 300,000 dollars that we have
allocated for next year, dedicated to testing to management and removal assistance,
such as upgrading the computer programs that we will need to try to track who has got
a dual connection and who does not. And also to get some additional administrative
help to chase down the issues. These are the benefits of the recommendation. First of
all, our water quality issues are addressed. We have reduced risks over time. We have
many back flow assemblies that will eventually leave. We know that the engineering on
a back flow assembly is good. It's been proven. We know our experience in the
Treasure Valley has been good with back flow assemblies. So, water quality speaking,
we feel very sure, as long as they are tested annually, that we are going to have a safe
system. We'd also -- the recommendation also addresses fairness and equity. We let
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people on and we want to try to help that out by minimizing the cost share with the
homeowners to maintain their systems. If we eliminate the reimbursement program,
one homeowner group or sub group is not going to be subsidized by everybody else.
And, finally, there will be some monetary savings to the city. Again, we'd like thank
those folks who showed up yesterday to help us craft some of these alternatives and
recommendations. They were a great help and, again, they helped ground truth this
sort of thing, so we appreciate their attendance and we look forward to working with
them in the future. Do you have any questions?
De Weerd: Council, any questions? Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Not really a question, but, you know, a general comment. I think you have
done some good work. There are, obviously, some recommendations in here that are
on the market and some that I'm not sure I understand and some I probably won't agree
with. What's. your timeline? What do you anticipate you need in terms of time to
implement a change.
Dees: Well, it depends on which change you're talking about. If you're talking about the
recommendation to eliminate the reimbursement program, we would like to see you
take some action before the fiscal year change.
Rountree: Well, I'm just working off your recommendation.
Dees: Right. And that's --
Rountree: Knowing your recommendation may not quite come to pass, but --
Dees: If they don't?
Rountree: Yeah. Something might be crafted that's different. But I'm working off your
recommendation. So, you anticipate you want it by the next fiscal year?
Dees: We would like to see something by the fiscal year. change.
Rountree: Okay.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor? Rich, how many homes -- I think you said 3.7 percent and
you had a number up there and I missed that. Do you recall?
Dees: Hundred and eighty homes.
Hoaglun: Okay. And what's the annual testing cost per -- per device?
Dees: Interesting. If you look at our bills that we pay every -- every month to our
annual testers, we authorize up to a maximum amount. Oddly enough, many of those
testers charge that maximum amount. However, if you were a person in the city of
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Boise wanting to get your back flow assembly tested, you would pay considerably less.
About 35 bucks.
Rountree: For -- if you are in the city of Boise? And what's our maximum cost?
Dees: It depends on the size of the preventor. A preventor up to -- I have the list right
here. The preventor three-quarters of an inch up to a two inch, the pressure vacuum
breaker is 50 dollars. If it's a dual check it's 75 dollars. If it's an RP device it's a
hundred dollars. That's what we allow.
Hoaglun: Okay. And that was a question I had when we were making recommendation
for an RP device an those were a hundred dollars.
Dees: That's what we allow up to.
Hoaglun: Okay.
Dees: Now, what they will charge for that, if you weren't the City of Meridian, we
suspect it would be considerably less.
Hoaglun: Okay. Thank you.
De Weerd: Other questions from Council?
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor, I did have one other I forgot and plans for enforcement, I
mean you talk about software, you talk about, you know, education campaign, you're
aware of 980 of them right now. So, how do you enforce that?
Dees: We have a back flow inspector and we literally put him on the street, having him
looking and if he sees a dual connected system and it cross-checks here with our
database and it's not one of the ones that are registered, we will be knocking on the
door and that's where the enforcement action takes place.
Hoaglun: Okay. So, I would imagine, Madam Mayor, there would be some people out
there they won't understand the term dual connection. I mean they just know they go
out there and they flip a lever, they turn a valve, and their water continues, you know,
and they just know that the house they bought, that's what the homeowner said to do
when the irrigation season is over, if you turn this valve you can keep watering and,
then, when the irrigation comes back on, turn the valve and you're on irrigation water.
So, there might be a few like that out there.
Dees: We understand that and we certainly will work with folks on an individual basis.
We are not looking to be the heavy handed, oh, police -- water police, but certainly if the
folks have some education, they understand what they are doing and they still refuse to,
you know, comply with the ordinance, those are the ones we will probably go after.
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Hoaglun: Thank you.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Rich, one of your recommends is to remove the payment for the back flow
testing, yet we have an 80 plus percent compliance and another system you identified
on a customer base pay was 60 percent. There is a margin of error in there. What's
that worth? How do you quantify that? I mean help me out here. You give me some
numbers, but how do I work with them? It seems to me that there might be some value
in that 300,000 dollars.
Dees: There is value in --
Rountree: To everybody, even though a few of us are subsidizing it.
Dees: That's correct. There is value in that. In fact, that was the -- that was why we
wanted to tell you that. We are enjoying a success that other communities are not.
When you get an 85 percent initial response, it's like sending letters out to a few
thousand folks. That's pretty good compared to the rest of the folks that have to, you
know, use other methods that are quite frankly difficult. So, it makes it easier for us,
certainly, when that happens and the program as it exists does get a response out of
the -- out of the folks for the reimbursement. Now, if you leave that program in place, it
doesn't give us very much wiggle room to help with the dual connect situation. So, we
were going to use that money to offset the dual connect a little bit, but certainly that has
benefit, it keeps our water supply in a much safer condition than it would otherwise be.
Rountree: So, as you deliberated that particular recommendation, did you or anybody
else consider an incentive -- maybe not paying the total fee for that, but a nominal fee,
maybe a ten dollar certificate with a notification that if you use it you get ten dollars and
you can use that for a ten dollar rebate or something of that nature. I mean to me the
idea that we get that kind of percentage return is -- again, that accomplishes the goal. If
we go through all of this and, then, we end up with a 50 or 60 percent response, I don't
know that we have accomplished anything.
Dees: Councilman Rountree, Madam Mayor, indeed, we did consider that. We
considered, essentially, chopping the price list, if you will, in half. At least in half and
reduce it by quite a bit and have the homeowner pick up the remainder of the fees that
the back flow preventer companies would charge. Instead of paying 50 dollars, pay
only 25 or something like that. So, certainly that was considered and we -- that would
be an idea and we would be happy to do that if that's what you want us to do.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I don't have anymore -- well, I have a bunch of questions, but
not right off the top of my head. But I'd like to hear from some of the folks that are here
this evening. It appears that there is a few homeowners out here that are interested.
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Dees: There are some homeowners here. For certain I know Meridian Greens is here
and I don't know if others are here as well. But they are here and they were in our
meeting with us, so --
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor. Rich, you had a slide earlier that showed -- for a subdivision
you want to go from the individual connections to a -- on of the options is to go to a
communitywide --
Dees: Single point. Yes.
Hoaglun: -- single point. That was the term used. Thank you. Is that what some of
these subdivisions -- Meridian Greens, SummerField, I think some of those other ones
you noted, is that what -- that's an option for them, but that's the one that would cost 14
to 20 thousand, depending on number of units and that sort of thing and -- but that's --
would those subdivisions -- does that make up the bulk of -- I mean we know there is
solo dual connectors out there, but in terms of percentage of those that we are aware
of, what do those subdivisions make up, any idea? Have you quantified that?
Dees: I don't have that, but I know there are subdivisions with single point connections
now established. For some of the subdivisions that I listed it would be terribly expensive
for them to pay 14 to 20 thousand dollars and they only have 12 homes in the
subdivision. That would be a huge burden on those folks to do that and I -- I find --
think they would be hard pressed to do it. Some of them have only 25 in the
neighborhood. Now, the ones that have 400 and 600, you can amortize the cost over --
over that a little bit easier, but when there is so few in some of those subdivisions, that
makes it very difficult.
Hoaglun: Just -- I'm thinking of -- is it worthwhile -- if we are budgeting 300,000 a year
-- and I haven't run the numbers and I'm just trying to figure out -- like Councilman
Rountree here, you know, we need to discuss this thoroughly and wrap our brains
around it, but, you know, is there a way that it's worthwhile to take some of that money
and mini subsidize to help move them from dual connections on individuals to one
single one and are there ways to do that. I don't know, but I'm just trying to organize
those thoughts in my mind right now, so --
Dees: Councilman Hoaglun, we had some suggestions to do just that. One of our
suggestions was is instead of paying the individual to remove the individual dual
connect device is to help the subdivisions pay up to half of that 14,000 dollars to install
a single point. We thought it was better, though, to get -- take care of the problem. The
problem is not single point, the problem is all those dual connected in those houses.
That's where the issue is. That's where your liability is. So, we thought, well, let's
concentrate our money there. We'd rather put money into those -- you know, replace
those or take those out than the single point. We were dealing with a finite number,
300,000 dollars. At one point 300,000 dollars we figured if we paid 150 dollars per
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household, considering it was 300 dollars a person, that's half, we could do every one
that we had on our list and probably have a little few bucks left over.
Rountree: I have a final question, but have you evaluated and studied -- you talk about
the shoulder season. I have lived here for a long time, long enough to remember the
one incidence in 1979. I happened to be in one of the subdivisions that it affected. It
wasn't pleasant, but it wasn't unhealthy either, it was just a matter of getting up in the
morning and taking a shower and thinking you're out in the middle of an onion field.
That was remedied, but my question is the shoulder season. Have you evaluated and
are you looking at an educational program that addresses the fact that you really don't
need to irrigate at that time of year. I have lived in three homes with three different
locations in Meridian for in excess of 30 plus years. Don't irrigate that time of year.
When the irrigation water is off I don't irrigate anymore. I'll put my green lawn up
against anybody's in the community and, you know, it does dry out a little bit and gets a
little parched occasionally. It has in those years. Not many times. But it comes back in
the spring like gang busters. So, have you done some -- given some though to the fact
that you need to educate folks that do we really need to spend this kind of money to
irrigate our lawns?
Dees: Madam Mayor, Councilman Rountree, that actually was brought up at our
homeowners meeting yesterday. One individual there said, you know what -- he said
exactly what you said. He said we live in the desert. Quite frankly, if the irrigation
season stops, you stop watering. It makes sense to use irrigation water for irrigation for
lawns and things like that and not use potable water, which is sort of a precious
resource, to -- to irrigate yards with. The back flow assemblies and the dual connects
and these single points are made as a convenience because folks want to keep their
lawns green until October, I suppose. They can continue to irrigate. Would that --
would we have an education process to not -- you know, not have that happen? You
bet. That has to be part of it.
Rountree: Thank you.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I wonder about a -- that's a good idea as well, but a different kind of an
educational process that might let us find some of the people who are not on our list that
have across-connection and it's -- what I'm thinking about is when we get to a shoulder
season we ask people the questions similar to what Brad said, we stuff something into
the water bill that goes out in late September or early October that says do you have a
valve in your yard where you can keep your irrigation going after there is no water in the
canals. Do know that there is an ordinance that says you must have a back flow device
and you must test it every year and if you have not been doing this, please, call us.
Dees: That's, essentially, what our opt in program is.
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Zaremba: Okay.
Dees: That's exactly it. We will try anything to get folks to opt into the program, so that
we know where those preventors are located. We still think there is going to be some
folks that just are not going to tell us. They are going to hide it from us and that's that.
So, we are going to have to ferret it out using whatever means we can.
Zaremba: My thinking is if coupled with that you explain the danger of contaminating
the drinking water, why is this an issue? I think people would see to a back flow device
at least, if not removing their dual connection.
Dees: We agree and we think -- we think that would happen. Education is huge and
we were going to use the billing system as part of our education piece to do that very
like thing.
De Weerd: Well, I can tell you the billing system is not the best way to educate your
public, because if they are anything like my husband, it gets tossed and not read. So,
you know, I think we have to look at a number of different ways of reaching it.
Dees: We had some -- Madam Mayor, we had some suggestions from the
homeowners folks this evening that they would announce it at the homeowners
meetings. We would provide -- you know, material so that they could bring it up at their
quarterly meetings and the annual meetings they have. Certainly we would do that.
Again, we would do a web -- web presence and any other education, like public
meetings. We agree. Happens at my house, too. I'll toss out all the extra pieces and
keep that little bill.
De Weerd: Any other questions from Council? We would like to invite anyone -- any of
the homeowners who would like to make comment to, please, share with us this
evening.
Rountree: Rich, could you get us a hard copy of your Powerpoint?
Bird: Yeah.
Dees: I'm sorry, Ididn't --
Rountree: Get us a hard copy of your Powerpoint.
Dees: I will. I'll print it out and have it in your boxes tomorrow. Is that --
Rountree: Thank you.
Bird: Thank you.
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De Weerd: Thank you. Victor. Please. If you will, please, state your name and
address for the record.
Watson: Yes. Mayor De Weerd and Council, my name is Victor Watson and I live at
1069 East Cayman in the Meridian Greens Subdivision. First off, Mayor and Council, is
we wanted to thank you for allowing us to speak here this evening. I also want to thank
Mr. Barry and Mr. Dees have been gracious in visiting with us. We have had an
opportunity with the Mayor and Mr. Barry and Mr. Dees in the past and, then, as he said
last evening. I have a number of points, but I'd like to reduce them to just three, so that
we are not taking very much of your time. As we met with the Mayor and with Mr. Barry
and Mr. Dees, we came to an understanding --anew understanding of the dictionary
language of what dual connection means and what's legal and what isn't legal. We
think that we are all now on the same lexicon, that we are talking about the same kind of
thing. Let me cover it in three points if I could. One would be in terms of the actual
abatement. If the decision is everything has to go quickly, a plumber may say it would
take 150 to 300 dollars and that may be true. I'm certainly not the person qualified. But
with that conducting a scientific poll just in our neighborhood -- let me tell you that there
are at least three people -- and I'm one of them -- who would -- in my home it would
require removing some of the -- the landscaping -- mature landscaping, removing part of
a decorative concrete curbing. In one case it would mean removing some sidewalk
under concrete. My neighbor, who has been in his home for over 12 years and he
bought the home from somebody else. When he came there where his system is
located it's under afive-by-five square of concrete. I don't think you can jack hammer
that out and take out that system or cap off that system for 150, 300 dollars. So, we
would just like for the Council and the Mayor to understand that it's not just the 150
dollars, it's going to be more than that. So, that would be point one. Point number two
is that Mr. Dees I think made a good presentation, he's been forthright and honest and
I'm not in any way accusing Mr. Dees of changing the information. We believe we
understood that the ordinance actually came about in '80, rather than '89. We won't --
we are not going to quibble over that -- over those years. The point is that for nearly a
quarter of a century there has been excellent quality management of the water system.
When you have an incident experience, as was in that particular slide that you saw, I
think anybody in quality management would say that's about as good as you can get.
We know that in the city there hasn't been that many instances of cross-contamination.
Part of the reason for that is the use of the internationally accepted back flow devices,
the RP devices. So, you get to the issue, then, of risk management. We drink the
water. I mean I drink that water, too, and I don't want bugs in it and don't want
chemicals in it. You know, we don't want to poison ourselves or anybody else. Yet if
you look at nearly a quarter of a century of good practices, then, you look at what is the
-- what's the level of the risk and we would suggest that you haven't reached that tipping
point of forcing a group of people to go back and tear something out that, obviously, it's
working very well. So, we would -- we would find that the manage -- that the risk is not
that great, at least to this point. The third thing -- and I would apologize to the City
Council over here, I'm not trained in law, never have been, never will be, but I'd like to
borrow a term that is sometimes used in law and I know that attorneys sometimes don't
like these lists, but it's the reasonable man test and in the reasonable man test we have
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two issues, one of negligence and one of diligence. So, what we would like to ask the
City Council is to be a reasonable man and woman in looking at what's being requested
here. Again, this is not an attack in any way whatsoever on the city, but nearly a quarter
of a century there has been a negligence in enforcing an ordinance. In that period of
time from '81 or '89, whatever the period is there, many people, myself included, have
either paid to have a test performed on our PVs, the best of the back flow devices. We
have paid for that. The city's paid for it. And each time, as you know, we get a ticket
that goes on our device and says you're okay and we have believed that we have done
what is legally responsible, that we have been diligent in following requirements. The
city's been negligent, if you will accept that term, in not enforcing. We would ask you to
be reasonable and say that we have done what we should have done in meeting the
requirements of the city. As you know, there are some municipalities who read these
ordinances and interpret them one way and some read them and interpret them another
way. We are not here to tell you how to interpret the ordinances. But there, obviously,
is a provision in these for approved back flow devices. We'd ask you to be reasonable
and recognize that there is a good recommendation that those people who already had
these and have been compliant be grandfathered. Now, the last one -- last one. I
suppose that's actually a -- it's the point of the additional sale in the event that I sell my
home and, then, you would require that the new homeowner abate the dual connection,
we'd ask you to consider that in that event there may be some specially -- as you know,
it's always the devil in the details. You know that as well as I do. We may have
homeowners who have special needs in the home that there should be a consideration
there. So, we would ask you to be reasonable and accept the recommendation of Mr.
Dees that there be a grandfathering allowed in and, then, enforcement from this time
forward. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, Victor. Any questions?
Rountree: Madam Mayor. Just help me, because it's your reasoning and logic that I'm
trying to follow. And you're talking about risk and that we have only had one incidence
in a significant period of time. What level -- what's the risk you're talking about? From
an elected official's perspective that health and safety of those folks that presented the
privilege to us, they don't expect to get bad smelling water, bad tasting water, they get
real upset when water gets flushed and there is a little coloring in it and there is
absolutely nothing wrong with it. But you get one case of crypto or something like that
and the sky is falling. So, I understand the fact that it hasn't happened. We have to
look at it from the perspective of it's not acceptable to happen, because that's the public
expectation. Now, if you can tell me your expectation, it's okay once in awhile to get
sick from the water I drink, then, I can understand your risk statement in the fact that we
haven't had a problem. But, you know, sitting here and having an outbreak of whatever
and having had an outbreak of colored water when the lines get flushed, and knowing
the response that the water department and Public Works gets and the Mayor's office
gets, what's going to happen if it's not necessarily, you know, life threatening, but
causes some indigestion and other related responses. So, you know, appreciate where
we have to come from as well. I guess that's what I'm saying. I understand what you're
saying about risk and it hasn't happened, but, again, the public perception of their
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police, their fire, their water and their sewers, that it works and it works every time I go
to use it and if it isn't working, you guys -- you guys haven't done your job, so appreciate
that as well, I believe.
Watson: Mayor and Council, I'm not sure what the question is.
Rountree: It was more of a comment, but my question is your risk is kind of a statistical
risk, I guess, that it hasn't happened and it may not happen.
Watson: Mayor and Council, I'm not trained in the sciences, I'm simply looking at the
fact that in this city and in other cities the risk, apparently, has been relatively low.
Again, the instant experience has been excellent. We are suggesting that it is
reasonable that we all want good water and that rather than going back and tearing up
what's been working, that you grandfather this point and enforce from this point forward.
Rountree: Okay. Thank you. Madam Mayor, another question. And it was your last
point about abatement on sale and I wasn't sure what your position was there.
Watson: There are a couple of our homeowners who find that to be questionable. We
have a particular homeowner who has a health issue, a disabled person in a home, and
eventually somebody else will have to come into that home and if there is a title change,
then, it would be that -- that the issue of abatement would come up. We'd like for you to
be aware that there may be special needs that would have to be considered.
Rountree: And, lastly, it sounds like you all had discussions about the fact that the city
does reimburse for testing and you all -- or the majority of your folks have taken
advantage of that. Where are you with that going away and I guess to you still have the
sense that you will continue to get tested.
Watson: Mayor and Council, we would expect to still have an annual test on the -- on
the RPVs and for our part, certainly for our subdivision, and I believe the feeling of the
other people who were there yesterday and Richard -- Mr. Dees might want to speak to
it, but my feeling was that we all agreed we would be perfectly happy and expect
payment for the inspection annually as we did for years.
Rountree: Thank you. Appreciate that.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Question for Mr. Watson. Is Meridian Greens Subdivision -- would they be
able to transition from a single point of where there is one regular -- one dual
connection, basically, with all the systems in place and that runs out to all the
neighborhood, is that a system that's doable for Meridian Greens are you aware?
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Watson: Mayor and Councilors, I don't know the absolute answer to that question.
Now, Jim Rosetti, who is our president is here and he may speak to it. We have looked
at the size of the pipe, four inch, six inch pipe, and as Mr. Dees said it depends on
where things are located. Me personally, I'm just speaking for Victor Watson here, I
think it's a good approach. Is it doable? Is it financially doable? I really can't speak to
that.
Hoaglun: And Madam Mayor and Mr. Watson, I'm looking at it from a cost sharing
standpoint, if we were to help mitigate some of those costs to go to that single point and
-- and that way you're going to be testing one connection a year instead of everybody
having to pay and different things like that, like --
Watson: Mayor De Weerd and Councilors, there actually are two issues, as
understand it. And, again, I would expect Mr. Dees to correct me on this if I'm incorrect.
Even if we were to go to a single connection, you still have the issue of abatement back
at my house. So, you really have a couple of costs. Again, I'm going to speak for Victor
Watson only. My colleagues can throw chairs at me. But for me if the city wants to
come into my house and pay to cap that thing off, then, you're welcome to come in,
because I don't have great water pressure anyway. And the shoulder season is not a
big issue for me personally. I use it a little bit -- in fact, I used it a week or two ago when
I had to change -- and my IP system had to change a valve out. But a single connection
is one -- pardon me -- is one financial issue, but you still have to go back and have
abatement at the home still. So, there really are two issues there, I think, councilor.
Hoaglun: Thank you.
De Weerd: You learned well.
Watson: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Is there additional comment? Good evening.
Ball: My name is Mike Ball. I'm president of Sportsmans Point homeowners
association. I live at 1529 South Labrador Place. In the meetings yesterday afternoon
and some discussions prior with some of the homeowners with Mr. Dees on his plan.
I'd kind of like to recommend going with that due to all the -- one, safety issues, risk to
me. Any risk is not acceptable as far as water. Because of the no enforcement over
the past few years I believe the grandfather clause should be installed and stated or at
least a supposition that, you know, upon sale of the property that they be abated and
removed and I think that would reduce over the years, because going forward we have
no conscious effort of whoever purchases a home that they are going to continue the
testing process and know the important -- the importance of that testing process. As far
as the single point of contact for irrigation systems, we had looked at that as a
homeowners association at one time, yet the big cost that they have given us at that
time was like 17,500 dollars and that's a pretty stiff cost and even if you're spreading it
out over a couple hundred homes, which I think it's about 217 homes in our subdivision
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that would have that, that's still quite a bit of a cost and, then, there is the abatement
issue that you have to pay a certain fee every year in order to use that water fee. So,
that has prohibited our group -- or at least our board from proceeding with that -- with
looking at that any further, just because of the cost. And even at the point I think now of
the extension of the shoulder seasons are only one time in the last, what, seven or eight
years have we got our water cut off early and you kind of looked at that and you go,
really, is it worth it. And, then, at that point in time we are using groundwater which is
very very precious. We live in a desert, you know. It's the end of the irrigation, we got
irrigation, it's cheap, let's be done with it, so -- and that's my opinion, so --
De Weerd: Thank you, Mike. Any questions?
Ball: Thank you.
Rosetti: Madam Mayor -- Madam Mayor and Town Council -- Councilmen, my name is
Jim Rosetti and I'm the board chairperson for the Meridian Greens Homeowners
Association and I'd like to echo just a couple of things what Victor Watson said. First,
I'd really like to thank you the folks at the water department, Mr. Ness that helped us
yesterday to try to work some of these problems out. The second thing is Victor
mentioned the irrigation system, the single point irrigation and the distance between
where the city water is to our pumps, probably in the -- speaking of the costwise, you're
probably looking at somewhere in the neighborhood of -- anywhere from 25 to 30
thousand dollars to install that system. Plus you also have the cost of mitigating the
homes. I guess that to look at those two items, basically, is we are in favor of the -- Mr.
Ness's proposal and would like to see that come about. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. You need to be at the microphone. Thank you.
Rosetti: We have got two individuals that are on our item that are not in the subdivision
and they are two -- we used to refer to them as farmers along Overland and those folks
flood irrigate and they don't pay into our system, but they were given the right for free
water -- irrigation water from our developer and right now we feed them from our current
system, so they would take full advantage of the city water to flood irrigate their -- their
acreage along Overland. That would be our problem would be those two folks. So,
thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Is there any further comments? Okay. Rich or Tom, any
further comments from you?
Barry: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, and certainly those who
have participated this evening, we do thank you for coming, meeting with us, sharing
your ideas and thoughts. We are grateful for your opinions and we do value those. And
I also do want to thank also my staff and certainly the staff from the other divisions
within the city that have helped work through this problem. This has been an ongoing
situation for us for many months. I do want to just mention a couple things. First of all,
there was a statement made earlier that, essentially, the city was negligent and I would
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like to just disagree with that. I don't believe the city was ever intentionally negligent. I
think a lack of knowledge about these systems that are oftentimes permitted by other
agencies that, then, get annexed into the city or, alternatively, put in without any permits
or put in after the homes are built, does not imply negligence on the city's part. We do
not permit these kinds of dual connections. We have not allowed them for many
decades and we have, as we have found them, required people to address them. We
have over a dozen or so just in the last six months -- 17 in the last six months that we
have forced to change these systems out. So, I don't believe and I take issue with the
statement that the city was negligent. But barring that, I do think we have a good plan.
I think the plan does accommodate both the homeowners and as sympathetic as we
can be, empathetic, with regard to the situation by allowing the grandfather period, but
we also feel as water purveyors that it's our responsibility to not just allow a current
situation, but to do what we can to reduce the risk over time, which is why we feel a due
on sale clause makes a lot of sense. We also feel that if we can divert those monies
that are currently spent, either in a reduction of the service for the testing of back flow
prevention devices, or, alternatively, in elimination of that program entirely and divert
either a portion or the whole of that 300,000 to what seems to be at this point a greater
risk -- not to suggest that back flow prevention testing is not a risk, but we do know that
those are private devices and as has been mentioned this evening, they are owned by
the owners of the homes and are required under ordinance to be tested. We are the
only purveyor in the state that -- as was mentioned earlier, provides that benefit and we
do see the benefits of providing a reimbursement. But we'd like to also see about what
we can do to eliminate or reduce significantly the number of dual connected systems
and that's why that was in the recommendation earlier. So, I don't know, Mr. Dees, if
you have anything else to add.
Dees: No. Thank you.
Barry: So, we will stand before you with questions or take any guidance or direction you
can provide for us. If you'd like us to bring some formal proposal back we can do that.
We have just put together this evening, essentially, overall components of what would
be that proposal for your discussion.
De Weerd: Council?
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I would prefer the opportunity to take the information we
have heard tonight and Rich's presentation and the input from the homeowners
associations, which I very much appreciate, and continue it as a workshop item and
maybe give specific direction on the 14th at least where I'm going to come from and
everybody can -- and, then, you all can take it and try to craft it into something that
makes sense. But Idon't -- I don't know of all the recommendations that you propose,
whether I could necessarily endorse each and every one of them at this point in time
without looking at them and comparing them and maybe even adding to them. So, I
want that opportunity.
Barry: Certainly.
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Rountree: Which is a workshop, it's not a decision activity tonight anyway, so --
Hoaglun: And, Madam Mayor, I might echo those comments. In fact, I will probably call
you, Rich, to get -- make sure -- as I think Mr. Watson said making sure I'm on the same
page with some of the language and different things and understanding of this. There is
a few questions I have to make sure I truly get it and so -- before we make a decision
here -- make some recommendations. Thanks.
De Weerd: Okay.
Barry: That sounds great. We appreciate any comments you have to share with us.
We will continue it at the next workshop and certainly we would invite any of you folks
who have come out or if you have other, we'd certainly love to work with you between
now and then and also invite you back as well, so that we can continue the
conversation. But thank you for that and we will get you the hard copy in your mailbox
hopefully tomorrow and if you do have any questions, both Rich or myself can address
those and we will look forward to meeting with you again to continue the conversation
on the 14th.
Rountree: Very good.
Barry: Thank you all.
De Weerd: Thank you. And thank you for the citizens that did join us here this evening,
for your involvement and dialogue. It is a learning process.
C. Information Technology (I.T.): I.T. Policy Discussion
De Weerd: Okay. Our next item, Item 8-C is our IT Department.
Nary: Thank you, Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: Are you our IT Department? Mr. Nary.
Nary: Yes. It's a pretty scary thing to say, but yes.
De Weerd: It is.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, what's in your packets are some policies
and the IT committee with Terry Paternoster, our IT manager, .leaving, have come up
with for different -- different practices within the city. Some of them are really guidelines
of how things -- we'd like how things to be, what requirements we want to put into going
forward on how our technology is used and how it's purchased annually and those types
of things. Terry offered to be here tonight. He's off for a couple days. He just
purchased a house, they are trying to get that finalized, and I told him, you know, it's a
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fairly lengthy discussion that may be involved with this and so what I was going to
suggest is simply if you have some initial questions tonight, it is a fairly -- there is 16
pages in here. Some of them I think are really routine things, some of them are
probably a little more than routine things, and so I would suggest we put it on next
month's workshop. That gives you time to read it and, then, come up with questions if
want to have questions ahead of time, you want to get to myself or to Terry directly so
that we can come prepared to answer you on the record then, we can certainly do that
as well.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Bill, would you see that we get a hard copy, each one of them.
Nary: Yes.
Bird: I can read a hard copy better.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Bill, is this, essentially, the same as what you provided me about four weeks
ago?
Nary: Yes.
Rountree: Okay. I just wanted to comment that I have gone through it, I had some
nitpicky stuff, but in general I thought you have done an outstanding job of creating
policy for a new fledged department and a policy that will guide the city on the right
course in the coming years. But I will discuss those nitpicks with you --
Nary: Great.
Rountree: -- sometime between now and next week or next workshop.
Nary: Well, thank you very much. Thank you for those words and, like I said, Terry and
the committee have done a lot of work, we have vetted this with the directors to make
sure it does make sense and that it's practical for application. Like I said, some of these
are pretty routine things and things from practices we have been doing and just to
memorialize it. Some of them were things that we had to kind of massage with the
departments to make sure it made sense. But I will pass that along and I will get hard
copies back out to all of you as well and, then, we will put it on next month and,
hopefully, we can finalize it and get it formalized.
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Rountree: I don't need one if it's the same as what I already have.
Nary: Okay.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Zaremba:
Zaremba: I already have the hard copy as well.
Nary: Okay.
Zaremba: And in going through it I thought it was very thorough and good work. The
one thing that I was looking for as I read through each section -- and sometimes it was
there and sometimes it wasn't real clear -- is the distinction between the system
administration part that IT is responsible for and the user part that a department is
responsible for to make sure that the departments are left with the flexibility they need to
operate their end of the system. And I saw that on some of them and some of them it
wasn't that clear. But overall I thought it was a very good effort.
Nary: Thank you, Council Member Zaremba. I think we -- we will look through it again
before next month to make sure we have identified some of those. We think so, but,
you know, I think what happens, like most things, we have read them a number of
times, we have gotten pretty used to them, we know what we mean and it may not be
and that's why it's good to have another set of eyes looking at it. But we certainly will --
that is the intent is to maintain the system administration separate with IT versus what
the users need and it has been I think pretty successful in divvying it out that way, but
we will make sure that wording is clear.
Zaremba: Thank you.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor, Bill, I went through it as well and I thought it was -- met the
needs for the city. I guess my only comment when I was reading through was the fact
you discuss in different locations about the need for IT being involved with software
selection and, of course, different agencies have different needs, but it's good for them
to be involved. The enterprise application policy I thought was good. I guess it comes
down to -- and probably more for the Mayor in terms of making sure IT has that ability to
work with the agencies and so we don't build silos as are referred to, where they are not
citywide or they are so unique to that agency and so costly that we get ourselves into a
situation that they are locked in and it becomes very expensive and we are held
hostage in some degree to some of these manufactures. So, having IT looking at that --
what options are out there and how they can do that and the most cost efficient way, I
found in the state controller's office what shocked me was the license agreements and
the annual payments that you had to come up with. It was just mind boggling what they
charge for that. It's not initial getting in the software, but it's those annual fees and once
you're in you're in and so that is something that we need IT to be working on with those
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agencies and I know you want them to be working together, so I'd encourage you to
keep that up.
De Weerd: Which is one reason the policy was written the way it was. I can tell you
that there are occasions where software would like to be purchased that would be cost
prohibitive to maintain and I think that the IT committee and the directors have come a
long way in starting to play well together in the sand box.
Nary: Madam Mayor and Members of the Council, I mean just as one final word, I think
what you're really talking about, Council Member Hoaglun, which I think as an
organization we continue to move towards and I think get better at it, really creating that
culture that requires that collaboration, because it's inherent in how we do business and
so that dialogue that isn't very common in a lot of governmental entities or any other
types of businesses, is its pretty inherent in how we do things and the Mayor is exactly
right, it's not something that's happened overnight, it's things that have developed over
time, but I think it's hopefully building credibility with IT with the departments that we are
there to provide a service and to provide the things they need, but not necessarily to just
simply keep creating different silos of products so that -- again, because it's more cost
prohibitive to do, it costs more for training, it costs more for licensing, we are really
trying to collaborate with them and I think it has become much more a part of the culture
of how we do business internally here and I think those are good things and that's how
to avoid those long-term costs that can be crippling for people.
De Weerd: Well -- and I think you saw that with the enterprise software. A number of
departments kind of were involved in looking at that, evaluating it, determining how it
would meet different needs and so it's -- it's been nice to see that progress.
Nary: Now it's just massaging that contract. That's the lawyer part. So, we are still
massaging on that a little bit. But that's okay. We like that part.
De Weerd: I know. Scary. Okay. If there is nothing on that, we will see it back next
month.
D. Planning Department: Letter to Ada County Regarding
Proposed Development on the Northeast Corner Chinden and
Linder (Eagle Island Marketplace)
De Weerd: Item 8-D is our Planning Department. In front of you, Council -- or in your
packet you do have a letter and I will turn this to Anna.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the purpose of the letter is just to
kind of get Ada County up to speed on what the City of Meridian has been doing
regarding access to Chinden Boulevard and our applications that we have, basically,
told them no access and it kind of gives a little bit of the background history on that and
asks them specifically in evaluating the Eagle Marketplace, which is the northeast
corner within the City of Eagle's area of city impact, to ask them to look at two particular
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issues. One is that the City of Meridian asked them to preserve the corridor and
easement fora 16 inch diameter Boise River outfall pipe along the south side of
Chinden Boulevard to Linder Road and, then, along Linder Road going north to the
Boise River. What's proposed now is that there would be a forced main for the Eagle
Marketplace project within the area we are currently planning on putting our sewer
mains. So, that is one of the issues and, then, the other larger issue is the access, so
we are requesting that they not approve the requested access to Chinden Boulevard by
placing restriction on the plat or that if they have to not approve the rezone, if that's the
way they feel they need to go, but we'd like to see that access preserved, unless there
is a plan that provides access to all four corners equally. It -- we have always stated
and the Mayor has held meetings with those property owners to state that it's not fair if
one corner gets to have the access just because the City of Eagle didn't opposed it,
which is kind of the unofficial reason we have heard that it was approved.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Anna, I think on the first line of the second development -- of the second
paragraph --
Canning: Yes, sir.
Bird: -- in parenthesis, I think that should be northeast corner instead of northwest.
Canning: Probably. Oh, yes. It should be --
Bird: Is that right?
Canning: -- southeast and northeast. Thank you.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Rountree: Anna, on the second page, the second paragraph, the last sentence, I'm not
convinced and haven't ever been convinced that access is necessarily a competitive
advantage. So, I would say let's not admit that we think it is, because I don't think it is.
And say we are now, unfortunately, in an untenable position where we have held the
faith with the US 20-26 study as a partner in that study, where other partners have not.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor, Councilman Rountree, I think that's well put.
Bird: Which one are you talking about, Charlie?
Rountree: The second paragraph, the last sentence.
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Bird: Oh. Okay. Yeah. I agree with you.
Canning: May I read that back to you, so -- we are now, unfortunately, in the untenable
position of where we have held the faith in sticking to the 20-26 corridor plan where
others have not?
Rountree: Or trust or what -- you know, put it in your words, but something to that
effect.
Canning: Intent? I kind of liked faith.
Rountree: Okay.
Canning: Okay.
De Weerd: See, here I tried to tone it down and you throw it back in there again
Canning: I noticed the copy that I have has one sentence that we have thought we
would take out. No, I'm sorry. Never mind. We did take it out. I apologize. So, would
you like me to make those changes and, then, get it back to you next week? I think we
have another week. It has to be to the county by the 17th I think.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Anna, to make sure we get it there in time, I'd have no problem if you'd do it and,
then, just give it to Peggy and -- for us to sign.
Canning: Okay.
Rountree: We could just sign it and, then, let's get it and, then, we can know it's there in
time.
Canning: Okay.
Hoaglun: And Madam Mayor and Anna, in the second paragraph where Councilman
Bird talked about the northeast and the southeast, later on in that paragraph there is
another northwest reference. We need to make sure that that is fixed as well.
Canning: You know, having a planning director that could tell north, east, south and
west would probably be an advantage to the city some day.
E. Planning Department: Update and Potential Action on Cost
Share and License Agreement with Ada County Highway
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District (ACRD) for the Landscaping and Maintenance
Associated with the Ten Mile, Overland to I-84 Road Widening
Project
De Weerd: Okay. Any other comments? Thank you, Anna. Okay. Item 8-E is also our
planning department to discuss the Ten Mile interchange area.
Canning: Madam Mayor and Members of the Council, this -- a memo from Caleb
regarding this item. And I think it's pretty self-explanatory, but I will go through it. There
is two questions tonight. One's specifically in relationship to Ten Mile and, then, the
other one is a larger question. So, with regard to Ten Mile cost share agreement, which
is the actual adoption is -- is on for tonight as well, but there is an issue that Caleb
wanted to make sure you were aware of. There is -- you have talked about the
landscaping in the median a number of times, but you have never talked about the
landscaping in the parkway. The parkway is the one at the side of the road, that's the
area between the curb and the sidewalk. ACRD just wants to make sure that Council is
aware that they are looking look for some minimal treatment within that parkway planter
strip. Otherwise, they would prefer to attach it. Now, from the Planning Department's
perspective we see attaching it as inconsistent with all the rest of our developments
where we require a detached sidewalk. So, the detached is more in line with our
general city standards. We have explained to them that we would keep it free of weeds,
but that we didn't intend to landscape it until those adjoining properties developed. In
this particular case of the Ten Mile, it may be awhile before those adjoining properties
landscape. What ACRD would like to see as a minimum treatment is weed barrier with
rocks put in, perma bark or some form of rocks that would keep the weeds down and,
basically, be little or no maintenance for the city, but would have something within that
planter area. For the Ten Mile project, that cost would be around 6,500 dollars for those
parkway strips. Now, the Council, as part of the fiscal year'11 budget, approved 27,000
for conduit and other kind of infra -- mostly infrastructure needs for the medians. So,
there is not any money budgeted for the parkways at this point. I talked to Steve
Siddoway briefly, he said we could probably shift some of that money from the medians
to the parkways, with the understanding you wouldn't have anything in the medians right
now for -- for weed prevention. And this is a concern to ACRD. ACRD commission
wants the medians to be landscaped within the next three years. Now, Council didn't
make a decision for fiscal year '11. We would hope that fiscal '12 we could get that
landscaping installed. But to -- those are the issues with regard to the cost share
agreement that's before you tonight. The cost share agreement itself is -- doesn't need
to be tweaked, it's rather ambiguous, but it just says it needs to be approved by ACRD.
So, these are the issues that ACRD is looking for in the approval. The agreement itself
doesn't need to be modified, we just wanted to make sure that Council was aware of
what they were being asked to share cost on.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions or comments?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
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De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Anna, as they develop we will surely plant grass or something on the side of the --
at the sidewalk that's not to the road as it meanders around I would have a feeling; am I
not right? Or landscaping or something. Not rocks.
Canning: Councilman Bird, on the east side -- there we go. East side, that's this end,
there would -- that landscaping will get installed. The 6,500 would go on the west side
where you have about four property owners and large acreages zoned RUT that are
residential and the likelihood of those further subdividing in the near future is probably
pretty small.
Bird: Is there anything for 6,500 that we can put in there, besides rock?
Rountree: Madam Mayor. Just a question. Is it an esthetic treatment you're after or
something to keep the weed barrier down and -- yeah, there is something out there we
could probably get for free and we could get it from ACHD and that would be some of
the grindings off of some of the milling they are doing around town. They probably --
they might even haul it there for us. I don't know. And spread it. I'm a little concerned
about having a lot of rock out there and you work that -- that perma bark stuff is pretty
good size and be buying a lot of --
De Weerd: Windshields.
Rountree: -- windshields and headlights and plus the pedestrians are out there and one
gets flipped off the tire, that could be a pretty good projectile. So, I don't know, Idon't --
the grindings are black and they are not very attractive, but the rocks are bigger and
they get full of crud and paper and stuff and have to be cleaned and whatever. I don't
know. It just seems to me that that's a fairly inexpensive solution and could be hauled a
way a lot easier than trying to haul away yards and yards of perma bark.
Canning: Madam Mayor, the .project manager Diane Bevins is, I believe, the blond
woman there.
Rountree: We are well represented tonight by ACHD, so --
Canning: I haven't met her yet, so -- she may be able to provide input.
De Weerd: Hi, Diane.
Bevins: Hello. Madam Mayor, Council Members. The commission was just concerned
-- we brought the request of just leaving it with dirt. I think that was the question two
weeks ago. And they just had a concern with the weeds and the appearance of putting
a brand road in and leaving something like that in dirt. They were interested in
something that would keep the weeds down and keep the safety and the function of the
road and that was their main concern and the example is weed barrier with rock, but we
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are open to other treatments, as long as it something that's going to help keep the
weeds down.
De Weerd: So, could you -- as staff talked about, the alternative that Councilman
Rountree suggested as an alternative to the perms bark?
Bevins: Well, Madam Mayor, the perms bark wasn't mentioned specifically. It could be
any type of rock. I think what we estimated the 6,500 dollars was -- is something pretty
rough. A two inch rock that we use in roads, where we have done that around the
county in other areas.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Diane, the shavings that Councilman Rountree was talking about, once they are
laid in there you can kind of roll them and they are hard and the weeds and stuff are not
coming up and they are not going to be something that kids walking along there can
grab and throw it at one another or at cars or anything like that; am I not right?
Bevins: I believe so, sir. Yes.
Bird: I would -- that would be my preference was something like that, like Councilman
Rountree said. I think that's a good idea. I don't like rocks out there, because it is by a
walkway and you're going to have kids -- kids and rocks have a way of finding each
other.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor and Diane, what -- but what I think I heard them say is if we do
an interim treatment, though, we have three years, though, before you want something
that is landscaped. Is that my understanding?
Bevins: The median.
Hoaglun: Or is that just in the median?
Bevins: Right. Madam Mayor, Councilman, that was medians, because the plan --
what we have been told by staff is that the medians would be landscaped in '11 and, if
not, in '12, but the commission just -- we know how budgets go and it could be '11 and
'12 and '13 and so we are not requiring an interim treatment in the medians, knowing
that they are going to be landscaped soon, so -- and, then as Anna mentioned on the
east side there is an active development application. The ..city is requiring that to be
landscaped. It's just that west side that it could be ten years before anything develops
and some interim treatment would need to be placed there.
Hoaglun: Okay. Thank you.
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Bevins: And that would be with a project. Excuse me.
Hoaglun: Which we need to do. I think we will go. It's just a matter of what we decide
how do it is what -- tailings or whatever. Do something. Okay. Thank you. And,
Madam Mayor, whatever we do is going to come out of park's budget, I guess; right?
De Weerd: No. Yours.
Siddoway: Somehow it will. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. First a question
to Anna for clarification. On that west side, if that park -- detached park strip area was
landscaped by adjacent development, they would be required to maintain it, but we can't
require the adjacent property owner to maintain it, because it's not being done with their
development and its right of way; is that correct?
Canning: Correct. But when they annex we would require it.
Siddoway: When they annex we could require it then. So, because of that and
because it's not likely to develop for some time, that's why ACHD wants to see
something to keep the weeds down. I would just mentioned with the enhancements that
we brought forward in July, we did have, you know, the 106,000 dollar version, which
was what it would cost if we just wanted to landscape the whole thing and be done with
it. That was just the median, though. I mean we didn't do -- we weren't doing anything
for the -- the park strip on the side. In the 27,000 dollar reduced down version that was
approved, we did have some funds in there for -- for weed barrier and rock mulch for the
median that we could transfer to the west side, leave the median in dirt and just keep it
-- keep the weeds sprayed if we intend to landscape that, you know, in the following
year in 2012. So, if there is some intent on behalf of the -- the Council that you would
like to see that as follow up with an enhancement with the next -- next fiscal year for the
remainder of that landscaping, we can -- we can put the weed barrier and such on the
west side, just maintain the weeds in the median and landscape it the following year
with a future enhancement. So, just throw that out for your consideration.
De Weerd: Council, any questions for Steve? You're going to earn your pay tonight.
Canning: So, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, that's the very specific issue.
The memo also mentions the larger issue as ACHD is doing additional cost. share
projects, we have told them that the preferred alternative for the City of Meridian is the
medium -- not median, but medium proposed livable streets, which includes the
parkway planter. So, we have told them we want that sidewalk separated when they
are doing projects and we just need to know if you have concerns with that. So, that
means that every time they do a project they will be looking for us to provide some
either interim treatment until development occurs.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
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Bird: Steve, I -- and I realize that we didn't have the money, but, man, I hate seeing
medians with just dirt in it and I think the offer that Councilman Rountree come up with,
the grindings and stuff and something that we can -- that will kind of harden out, you can
roll -- dirt, I don't care how many times you spray it, you're going to be out there every
week spraying it and you have still got the dust, wind blowing stuff.
Siddoway: Right.
Bird: I'd like -- I'd like for you to look into using some kind reclaimed shavings or
something and see if they will compact.
Siddoway: Like recycled asphalt type --
Bird: Yeah. Something like that. Something that the ACRD grinds when they do their
work.
Siddoway: Yeah. What I would say is if we are going to landscape within the next three
years, we would be incurring quite a bit of cost by having to remove the recycled asphalt
that's been --
Bird: Just take a skid in there and just lift it out.
Siddoway: If we are going to, you know, within a year landscaped it -- we -- I'd be glad
to look into it. It just seems that if we are landscaping in the short term --
Bird: That's just a suggestion, because we can't -- we can't -- I don't think we can put
rock on the sidewalk between the road and the sidewalk.
Siddoway: I think we can. I think it's going in the Ten Mile interchange medians.
Bird: Yeah. But people aren't going to be walking on the interchange -- or in the inside,
are they?
De Weerd: No.
Bird: On the medians.
Siddoway: There is no sidewalk there, no. It will just be --
Bird: And you're not going to have -- but over there by the sidewalk you're going to
have kids and stuff walking back and forth there with rocks to throw. 1 don't know. I just
-- I'd like to see -- I'd like to see something and I don't like dirt in the medians and I know
we can't afford to landscape right now.
Siddoway: Well, we have your approved budget, so --
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Bird: Maybe we can become inventive and --
Siddoway: -- I will see, you know, what we can do with that budget. I assume you'd like
me to try and stay within that, as opposed to bring an amendment --
Bird: Yeah. Don't bring back an amendment.
Siddoway: So, I'll see what can be done with the budget I have.
Rountree: Madam Mayor? I just suggest that, you know, instead of the perma bark you
look at some reclaimed activity, whether it's the asphalt millings, which ACHD has
mountains of -- or at least they used to not too long ago. Probably have bigger
mountains now with all the work they are doing. There is an outfit that's out on Diamond
Street, you have probably seen an ad, they make fine grindings and coarse grindings
that look like bark stuff and it's -- it's ten bucks a yard and 20 bucks a yard, as opposed
to 40, 50 and 60 bucks a yard, which you are going to be buying from some landscape
outfit to put it down. You know, there is -- they have got reclaimed concrete, they have
got -- they actually have reclaimed perma bark. So, to me that is kind of consistent with
a green aspect of the community.
Siddoway: Right. And, anyway, it will have to be landscaped at some future point --
Rountree: If it's not permanent --
Siddoway: No.
Rountree: If it's not permanent, it's just there, basically, to hold weed barrier down --
Siddoway: Uh-huh. I would be glad to look into that.
Rountree: -- let's find the least cost and the least onerous approach.
De Weerd: Would there be waste that could be used while they are doing the Ten Mile
project?
Siddoway: Oh, grindings from the actual --
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Rountree: Well, they will be grinding -- I assume they will grind the pavement that's --
well, they will probably just pick it up and haul it off, but -- I don't know how they --
haven't seen the design -- the pavement design, but --
De Weerd: Well, look into the application --
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Siddoway: Yeah. I just wanted to make sure you knew -- I know what my budget is and
we will see what can be done within that. We will -- we will have to shift from the
median to the side in order to do that and we can also look if we can do both within the
budget by reducing from perma bark to something else.
Rountree: Just remember just because it's in your budget doesn't mean you have to
spend it.
Siddoway: I hear that loud and clear. I understand. Thank you.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor, I have a question for Anna.
De Weerd: Congratulations for inheriting transportation.
Siddoway: Yeah. How did that come about? I'm not sure. I just wanted to maintain it.
Where is Public Works. They should put this in for me and I'll just maintain it when they
are done.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor, question for Anna that she may not be able to answer, but
want to ask it and that's on page two in that memo from Caleb about staff also wants to
make sure that Council understands that for a vast majority of future ACRD roadway
projects, the city will have to commit to a similar treatment in these planter areas, at
least in the areas where development in the city has not yet occurred and this is -- we
are talking about the detached sidewalk, so we are going to have that space. We are
going have to do something and this is the medium -- with an M, not median, but
medium street standard and we have agreed to that, but do we have any idea down the
road what that might consist of, how much we are looking at or is it more -- well, it
depends on the development that occurs and where it occurs and how the roads are
built. I mean I'm just a little worried. I like the standard. I think we ought to pursue that
standard, but I'm just a little leery of saying, oh, let's go forward with it and really not
having any idea what it's going to cost us in future budget years.
Canning: We don't have an exact number, but Caleb and I talked about this and most
of the projects that ACRD does go into an intersection that is the mind set of
developing. Like if you think about the Ustick intersection, all four corners we are
developing. So, we would have -- this wouldn't have been an issue, we would have
been able to get -- well, Bienville would still be an issue, sorry, but that's just because
it's Bienville. A lot of the times these projects are going in where the city is annexed on
all sides. We have developers there. We can get them to assume the maintenance
responsibilities and we don't think it's going to be an issue. Where it's an issue is where
we are getting to the edge of town, which this Ten Mile project kind of is at the edge of
town and. where we have got adjoining properties that may or may not be developing. I
think this is probably -- probably one of the more unique cases. If you think of -- what's
the other one? Amity and Eagle? Is that right? Is that where the other intersection is
going in? I mean all four corners of that are pretty much ready to develop and you
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probably won't be waiting long on that one. So, I don't think it's going to be a huge
issue.
Hoaglun: Okay. That helps -- helps me somewhat. Thank you.
Canning: Just the way ACHD is set up, they don't go out and do a lot of road
improvements until there is a lot of people there usually, so --
Hoaglun: Right. Okay.
Canning: So, is the Council okay with moving forward with the medium street design for
now? And you will have an opportunity each time to address this, so -- okay. And then
-- so, that's the long range direction we do need you, if you're prepared to, to take action
on the cost share agreement it is not specific as to the treatment, it just says the
treatment approved by ACHD. So, there is still time to negotiate what that treatment
may be.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, question.
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Anna, on the -- on that street requirement with the offset sidewalk, that
provides the benefit to the adjacent landowners with reduction in the amount of
landscaping they have to provide, grass on site?
Canning: Yes, it does, because we measure from the edge of curb, not the edge of
sidewalk.
Rountree: So, they get ten feet off of their 35 feet?
Canning: Correct.
Rountree: Which is a benefit, I think.
Canning: And they get the benefit of having their potential customers or residents walk
on a separated sidewalk, rather than right next to the road.
Rountree: Very good.
De Weerd: Okay. Everyone -- is Council comfortable with those items? Okay.
Rountree: I think I'd just take out the word rock in the parenthetical statement there on
page -- whatever it is.
Hoaglun: A qualified interim treatment.
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Rountree: Yeah. That will become the standard:
Canning: Sir, is that in the cost share agreement itself? I don't have a copy of that.
Rountree: It is in -- it's in Caleb's memorandum that I'm looking at on the second page,
so --
Canning: All right. I don't believe the actual cost share agreement has the word weed
barrier in it.
Rountree: Okay.
Canning: Mr. Nary is confirming that.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, it's not. It, basically, says -- it has
whatever treatment we choose to put in it. So, it's not specifically spelled out as to what
has to be there. It's just a discussion with ACHD, since we need their approval. But we
don't need to change the cost share agreement.
De Weerd: Okay.
Siddoway: Madam Mayor, Council, I would just quickly confirm That. 1.2.1 is the
section for interim treatment. It says that the city does not install landscaping in the
median coincident with the project. The city will install an alternative treatment
consistent with appropriate roadway safety guidelines, but it leaves it to that generality,
so we can work that out with them.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you, Steve. Okay. Item 8-F is our police department to
discuss the draft of outdoor sales and temporary use ordinance.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, maybe I missed it. We do want the cost
share agreement to get approved. I don't know what -- if you want to do that tonight.
De Weerd: Isn't that -- oh, well, you didn't --
Nary: Part of it -- that's why it says potential action on the cost share and license
agreement.
De Weerd: Okay. Okay. So, I will need a motion.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
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De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve the. cost share agreement with ACRD, the landscaping and
maintenance from Ten Mile Overland to I-84 road widening project.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Any further discussion
should say. Okay. Madam Clerk.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
F. Police Department: Updated Draft of Outdoor Sales and
Temporary Uses Ordinance
De Weerd: Okay. Lieutenant. Thank you for your patients. I don't know what you did
to be put at the end of the agenda.
Overton: I don't either, Mayor. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I'll try to be
brief and no mention of strategic planning. Sorry. It's late. You have in front of you a
draft updated ordinance having to do with temporary use permits and what we are really
addressing here -- or what I'm addressing is the mobile sales unit licenses having to do
with background checks. This was a combination of legal and the clerk's office and
police. So, some of this -- well, they will probably jump in if we have a question. Just a
quick background on this. We are not making any of these changes to try to short cut
the system or short cut the process. In fact, we probably have I think the strongest
process right now for background checks. We have caught registered sex offenders
trying to get licenses here that had a license already in the city to the east and had
another one that had a license in the city to the west. A lot of people don't know this
and it's probably good just to have this knowledge, is that when we do a license check,
the FBI, who operates NCIC does not let us use that system. That can only be used for
criminal cases with suspects. Which means we have to get very creative in what
databases we can access for doing a background check. In several local communities
they just go to their local system and if they don't find anything, they give them approval.
We use a whole series of databases that are non-NCIC, whether it's Department of
Corrections or ISTARS, local records management. So, we are picking up the phone
and calling. The problem we had as we looked at this was when this one section was
written it said any misdemeanor conviction, however old, and it forces our hand on a
large number of people that have something as simple as an inattentive driving ticket,
can never be able to have a mobile salesman license. So, I brought this to Emily's
attention many months ago, because I said I know it's our job to be good stewards for
the public and be very restrictive on who we endorse and allow to go door to door. But
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with that said, I think there is a better way for us to list what type of offenses we want to
say no, absolutely no, and, okay, maybe in five years we will talk. So, when you see a
lot of these crimes that we have listed out in time period, it's based on that series of
conversations we had based on the seriousness of the crime -- I mean, obviously, we
have certain crimes that we just say, no, we don't ever want you knocking on doors.
The other thing we are looking at is mobile sales unit licenses have picked up
tremendously. I believe last month our numbers had just crossed 240 for the year,
which is good in one way, it means a lot of people that were just going door to door and
not getting a license are applying for them. We have probably denied somewhere close
to 20 or 24 licenses just on backgrounds for almost everyone of these offenses listed.
Some of them are surprising when I tell the clerks why we are denying them. And,
again, that's a whole process done through the clerk's office and legal and denial letters
and how we do that process. The greatest advantage to doing something like this that
spells out these various crimes is really to help Nancy, Machelle, Sheri, in the clerk's
office, because what we have now on a mobile sales unit license is any misdemeanor
convictions, everybody goes, well, yeah, but what about this one? And, then, they call
me or something else happens and we get delayed. With a list like this it makes it very
easy for them to say, hey, here it is, it's black and white, you're either in or you're out.
And, of course, if they lie on their application, well, guess what, that's an automatic
you're out. So, that's the basics on how we want to change it and the type of crimes we
want to say five years, ten years, 15 years, no, sorry, it's not going to happen. There
also is one additional section down here that we wanted to add which had to do with
auto insurance, because I found an awful lot of people that didn't rise to the occasion of
having a misdemeanor conviction for insurance, but have a history of insurance issues
and I said at some point I think we can -- we can ask them -- we can require them to
show proof of their auto insurance if we are going to allow them to drive any
subdivisions and go door to door. And so that was another thing that we added. Now,
the rest of what you have seen has to do with appeals and cleaning it up and can
probably be answered by either Bill or Jaycee. But with that it's a lot of simple clean-
ups, alot of updates, a lot of straight forward language, which should make it a simpler
process. And I'd stand for any questions.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, one other thing that was added from
what you have seen previously when we talked about this a month ago was we had a
person who was selling insurance -- a kind of insurance door to door. We required that
he get a mobile sales unit license. The state code says that no city can create any law
or ordinance that prohibits somebody from selling insurance. Our belief was that the
intent of the state code was to not create 200 different laws regarding insurance sales in
the state, that the state Department of Insurance regulates, but it wasn't meant to
address the method of selling insurance. So, if you're selling insurance out of an ice
cream truck, then, we feel you should have a mobile sales unit license for doing that.
So, we contacted the Attorney General's Office and their assigned attorney for the
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Department of Insurance and see if they agreed or disagreed. They disagreed with us.
They believed that that preemption, although it seems overly broad, preempts cities
from creating anything that requires a license. I even contacted our insurance agent, he
agreed with us that it really was meant to deal with insurance, not the method of sale.
But this is one person, this isn't -- you know, this only allows insurance sales. If a
person's selling insurance and Fuller Brushes, they still need a license. So, they -- we
decided rather than going to court to fight over one person's ability to sell insurance, we
would simply allow it. It appears Nampa and Boise have done the same thing. And it's
not -- it isn't -- at least at this point hasn't risen to be a problem. If it is maybe we will
rethink it and bring it back to you for a different decision. But at this point we have
added that from the last version you saw that doesn't require it if they are just selling
insurance door to door. If they are selling anything else they are going to have to have
a license, too.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Rountree: Bill, don't they have to have a state recognition certification or a license to
sell insurance?
Nary: Yes.
Rountree: Okay. So --
Nary: And so any issue or concerns that somebody has, they would take them to the
Department of Insurance.
Rountree: All right.
De Weerd: Well -- any questions from Council? Concerns? You want to move it
forward?
Bird: Bring it forward.
Overton: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Appreciate all the work.
Hoaglun: And the short presentation, Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: Yes. Well, I didn't get into all the strategery behind that.
Rountree: strategery was lacking.
Item 9: Ordinances
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A. Ordinance No. : An Ordinance of
the City of Meridian Providing for a New Chapter of Title 2 of
the Meridian City Code, to be Chapter 6, Relating to the
Establishment, Duties and Powers, Membership, Organization,
and Meetings of the Solid Waste Advisory Commission; and
Providing an Effective Date.
De Weerd: Okay. Item 9 under ordinances. Madam Clerk, if you will, please, read
Ordinance 10-1452 by title only.
Nary: Actually, excuse me, Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: Yes.
Nary: Madam Mayor, members of the Council, we -- the clerk -- Madam Clerk found an
error in the ordinance, so rather than lining it out, we hate to do that, it's not urgent to
pass this tonight, we will ask to just put it back on next week's agenda and we will clean
up the error that's in there and bring it back to you.
De Weerd: Okay.
Holman: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, and Bill, can we -- since we already
assigned it an ordinance number, can we continue it to next week since we keep -- or is
there any -- would I have to void out that ordinance number --
Nary: No.
Holman: -- or I can just bring it back next week?
Nary: Bring it back next week.
Holman: Okay.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we continue proposed ordinance number 10-1462 to August 24th --
De Weerd: 17th.
Bird: Or we are going to the 17th. 17th. 2010.
Rountree: Second.
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De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to continue this item until next week.
All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Do I have a motion to adjourn?
Rountree: So moved.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: All those in favor? All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 8:50 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
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MAYOR ~1 /e,~rd DATE APPROVED
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