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HomeMy WebLinkAboutAugust 21, 2003 P & Z CommMeridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting August 21, 2003 Page 58 of 113 sentence: The applicant shall connect to water services prior to any use on the property. We will add a Paragraph 15, which says any well on the property must be abandoned. Sixteen, if I remember correctly, was that the driveway shall be the center aisle. Was that what the center aisle was about? Clarify on that. Kirkpatrick: And, actually, I think that we addressed that in site-specific requirement Number 1. Zaremba: Okay. Kirkpatrick: When you said it would be in compliance with ACHD's recommendation. Zaremba: All right. Kirkpatrick: So, we can leave out number 16. Zaremba: So, we have a new 16 that says the applicant will the the ditch that provides drainage to the adjoining property. A 17 that says revise Site Plan with all the required revisions to the Site Plan and also a Landscape Plan and an application for alternative compliance to that landscape shall be submitted ten days prior to the City Council hearing. End of motion. Centers: Second. Borup: Motion and second. All in favor. Any opposed? All right. Thank you. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, TWO ABSENT Item 13. Public Hearing: AZ 03-015 Request for annexation and zoning of 9.8 acres from RUT to R-8 zones for proposed Sageland Planned Development by Quasar Development, LLC -northeast corner of South Locust Grove Road and East Victory Road: Item 14. Public Hearing: PP 03-020 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 39 building lots and 9 other lots on 10.64 acres in a proposed R-8 zone for proposed Sageland Planned Development by Quasar Development, LLC -northeast corner of South Locust Grove Road and East Victory Road: Item 15. Public Hearing: CUP 03-036 Request for Conditional Use Permit for a Planned Development with a private neighborhood park in an R-8 zone for proposed Sageland Planned Development by Quasar Development - northeast corner of South Locust Grove Road and East Victory Road: Borup: The next project is Items 13, 14, and 15, Public Hearing AZ 03-015, request for annexation and zoning of 9.8 acres from RUT to R-8. zones for proposed Sageland Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting August 21, 2003 Page 59 of 113 Planned Development by Quasar Development. Public Hearing PP 03-020, request for Preliminary Plat approval of 39 building lots and nine other lots on 10.64 acres in a proposed R-8 zone for the same developer. CUP 03-036, request for a Conditional Use Permit for a Planned Development with a private neighborhood park in an R-8 zone for proposed Sageland Planned Development by Quasar Development. I'd like to open all three Public Hearings at this time and start with the staff report. Kirkpatrick: Chairman, Members of the Commission, this is an application for a Preliminary Plat with 39 building lots, a Conditional Use Permit to allow a Planned Development, and a Rezone and annexation from -- currently this property is in the county with a zoning designation of RUT. They are proposing a zoning designation of R-8. This 9.8-acre site is located at the northeast intersection of South Locust Grove and West Victory Road and the property is surrounded on all sides by property that is zoned for single-family residential and rural residential development. The applicant's applying for a Planned Development and requesting reduced setbacks, reduced lot size, and reduced frontages. The two amenities that the applications is proposing for the Planned Development include a little over one acre of common area, including -- put the Site Plan up. Include a little over one acre of common area and ahalf-acre park and 20 foot wide pathway along the Eight Mile Lateral. Some of the specific things I want to address this evening, the -- we are asking for the applicant -- or requiring the applicant to revise what they applied for a private street. The private street doesn't meet Meridian city code standards. The street is 250 feet in length and our code requires a private street of that length to be 42 feet in width and the applicant has proposed a 29-foot road. It will be requiring them to submit a revised Site Plan and they are going to address that this evening. The applicant has also proposed shared driveways. You can see along those lots to the north these are some of the lots where they are requiring -- orthey are requesting reduced lot sizes and frontage requirements and the applicant is proposing shared driveways as a way to serve those lots. Staff is recommending approval. We thought it was a creative way to serve this site. Another thing I wanted to bring up, I know you recently saw the Tuscany Village application. The developers of Tuscany Village are proposing to reroute the sewer through their subject property and Tuscany Village, again, is located at the southwest corner of Victory and Locust Grove. Let. me put up the Site Plan. Again, that's located at the southwest corner of Victory and Locust Grove in this -- yes. Correct. They are proposing to reroute it basically diagonally through that subject property, rather than following the Meridian Public Works master plan route along Victory and Locust Grove. I just wanted you to have this background information. If that is approved -- if it is approved by Council, sewer will not be readily accessible to this development. I just wanted to note that. Are there any other questions of staff? Staff is recommending approval of this subdivision and its related applications. Zaremba: Had a question on the shared driveways. I also think that's a creative idea, but shouldn't we be asking for cross-access agreements for any lots that are joined by a shared driveway? Kirkpatrick: Actually, we should require that as a condition. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Augusl21, 2003 Page 60 of 113 Zaremba: Okay Centers: And if the Council does approve that sewer line relocation, what does this project do for sewer? What is the alternative? Kirkpatrick: I'm going to let Bruce Freckleton of Public Works talk about that. Borup: They would just install it themselves, like any other project. Freckleton: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, that's correct. The sewer in the master plan takes sewer down Victory Road and, then, down Locust Grove, taking it right to the corner of this project. If Tuscany's application is approved going through here, this applicant would have to build sewer down to the connection point. Well, actually, it would be right there. They are going to have to -- Tuscany would be building the sewer along their frontage and if I -- their mapping shows that their property line is the center line of Ten Mile Creek, so Tuscany Developers would be putting up half the money for that crossing as well. Borup: Did that conclude -- Kirkpatrick: That's concludes my presentation Borup: Okay. Any questions from any of the Commissioners? Would the applicant like to make their presentation? Kirkpatrick: Oh. Actually, I need to load PowerPoint. Hold on a second. Forrey: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission. My name is Wayne Forrey with Pathway Planners Consulting and let me introduce quickly just a few folks. With me tonight is Amanda Alvaro, who is the owner of Quasar Development, the developer here. Also, our engineer is Brent Claiborn and I think Mr. and Mrs. Richardson are here -- well, Mr. Richardson is here, the owners of the property, and Quasar Development is in the process of purchasing this property. Sageland is rather a unique site. It's small. It's on a corner it's surrounded by roads and a canal. We wanted to save the existing farmhouse that's on the property, because it's a nice older home, and we also wanted to safe the existing trees. We have got some very nice mature trees. We did have a neighborhood meeting on this project at the end of July and we discussed the concept. Also the sewer situation in the neighborhood and the reason we applied for a Planned Development application is we wanted some design flexibility given the constraints of the road, the canal, the trees and the home that we wanted to safe. Your ordinance does give applicants that flexibility with the open space tradeoff and so we were able to get a ten percent open space and a nice park in the development and a nice community pathway, so we think we are on the right track. Hopefully we are. There are 39 total home sites, but one-third of those home sites, 13 of them, exceed 6,500 square feet in size. Not every lot is, you know, down to a small Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting August 21, 2003 Page 61 of 113 size. We just -- we were creative that way. We are going to extend the sewer -- where we pick the project up, we will extend it to the east underneath the Eight Mile Lateral, so that it serves property onto the east of this site and also to the property owners to the south. Thank you, Wendy, for getting that up. I have got a few easel pictures I'd like to show you and a handout and, then, I will walk through this presentation real quickly. Now, let me give you this handout first. Would you like me to just display these on the chairs facing the Commission? Okay. Let me walk through some of the development features that are listed on this page that I just gave you. One of the nice things about this project is we have got a separate 20 foot wide common lot right here that contains this community pathway. At the neighborhood meeting Mrs. Richardson, she lives -- well, their home is right here, if you can see that, on the south side of that alignment, south side of Victory, she asked that we put a sign right here that says something to the effect this pathway does not extend south of Victory Road at this time. They liked the idea of a pathway, but they are concerned that once that's there, then, the people naturally would cross the street and walk down the undeveloped part and that's right through their property. They butt right up next to the canal on the south side of Victory. We are going to have a hard surface micropath right through here, so that we can have connectivity to the rest of the development. We are having separated sidewalk and landscape strip on Sagemoor Drive to give that -- and that's for all these street trees right here, just give it a nice landscape feel in the community. We have got a large half- acre size private park in this area for residents. We hope to pick up sewer right here. We will pick up water and extend it along Locust Grove and, then, water and sewer would go east along Victory Road and underneath the Eight Mile Lateral right here and that's all with the sewer master plan of the city to keep that sewer going east and serve people to the south. Quasar Development -- let's see. Right here you see a photo of wrought iron fencing and also vinyl fencing right here. They want to put up a nice durable fence in the project. Another thing we are trying to achieve, right here in this area we want to have a subsurface drainage facility. Not a surface pond, but, actually, subsurface, so that it's safer, it's more esthetic, and it's just better for the neighborhood. It takes a little more money and a little more engineering detail to do that, but I think even if you ask your staff with the experience you have had in this community with some open ponds and pits, they can just collect trash sometimes, and so we are trying to 'put all of that underground. The other thing we wanted to do -- these lot lines are not perpendicular to Sagemoor Drive, they are angular, and that way we get a stair step to approach as you come down the street and that's another way to kind of break up the feel and give it more variety, just kind of beautify the streetscape along Sagemoor Drive. We will have shared driveways and we will have side entry garages as well. These corner lots through here will all have agarage -- or a home -- this would be shared, but this could be a garage entry here and the home would face to the east. This home would face.west, but the garage would access to the north. There will be a side entry garage design. It may be a little hard at this scale, but you can see some of those designs in the photographs here. Quasar and Amanda went around Boise and every one of the homes that they have photographed here will fit on this lots and they have got the floor plans and these are the style of homes that they intend to build here in 5ageland. The other thing, working with ACHD, we plan to put an area here for a future transit.stop. That's -- you know, the pathway comes. out to Locust Grove and so Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting August 21, 2003 Page 62 of 113 someday, when Meridian gets bus service and expands that bus service, we might see a few transit stop. ACHD liked that idea, thought it was a practical future location. The existing farmhouse is right here and so in the design of the subdivision trying to get access and make that a lot was a challenge, but we were able to do it with this layout and, then, then; is lots of nice trees in this development that we are going to safe. We lose one tree. It's located right here. We just couldn't save that tree, because of the alignment of the road and the private drive. Okay. If you would go to the next slide, Wendy? Here is a little lookup -- or a closer look at the canal right here and the easement that Nampa-Meridian Irrigation District has is 40 feet from the centerline there to this area. Now, we put the path on a separate lot outside of that 40 feet, so you don't have the conflict with Nampa-Meridian, they have still got their 40 foot on our side of the canal to go in and maintain the canal. This is totally outside the canal area and, then, we have got the 10-foot asphalt path here and the five-foot asphalt path here and that provides for good neighborhood connectivity. Centers: And, Mr. Forrey, that's going to be fenced, correct along the canal? Forrey: Yes. It's fenced. Okay. Now, as Wendy Kirkpatrick mentioned, the private drive in your Planned Development ordinance, it says you can have certain flexibility. We had hoped that that flexibility would also include private drives. Wendy Kirkpatrick researched that and she said that's up to City Council and it may take a Variance, but we agreed with the way the staff report is written. It says we either -- we have two choices, we either have to reduce the length of this street to 200 feet to keep it at that 24 foot width or we have to widen it to 42 feet. Now, if you'll go to the next page in the handout and here is a drawing of the private lane, Sagemoor Lane, and you see the green area that I have colored. That is a 28 foot green area. The way -- the current length of this road, the way ACHD measures it, is 228 feet. Now, I'm not saying Wendy miscalculated when she said it was 250 feet, but ACHD measures the road from this point right here -- and this is where they asked for the traffic bollards to be placed and, then, the Meridian Fire Department said rather than bollards we'd like a swing gate and we agree with that. From this point right here north, that road length is 228 feet. What we are proposing to be in compliance with your ordinance and not have to apply for a Variance, is to move that swing gate up 28 feet and put the swing gate here and that's what I have depicted on this drawing. That's one option. Now, if you will turn to the next page, another option would be to widen the private street to 42 feet, but we end up with three negatives. We end up with a very small corner lot and it's just difficult on that size to put a home with your 20-foot side yard setbacks on a corner. We end up with lots that are only 83 feet deep, that's kind of shallow, and we have removed two large trees to do that. Our preference, as a developer, would be to not widen it to 42 feet, but, rather, go back to that first drawing I showed you and take that slide gate that the Fire Department wants and move it north 28 feet. Then, we have a 200-foot long road, rather than a 228-foot road, and, then, that would meet the city requirements. Okay. The next slide. These are some of the homes styles that Amanda and her partners are envisioning in Sageland and they have evaluated each one of these homes, all of those will fit. Here is a shared driveway concept, you can seek the garages in the back, so we have that opportunity here to put some detached separated garages in the back with a Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting August 21, 2003 Page 63 of 113 common lot line right there with across-access easement as you mentioned. Here is an example I think we have all seen them, of the separated sidewalk with a nice landscape. It's very attractive. You know, here is the side entry garage where the garage is facing one direction and the front of the home is facing yet another direction and those are very attractive and that gives good variety. Okay. Next. Let me just summarize. We do accept the staff report as written. Is there -- everything in there is correct. We accept it. We would like to reduce the length of the road to 200 feet to meet the city requirements and we'd like to do that by shifting that gate 28 feet north. We do feel that we comply with your Planned Development standards. We support the adopted sewer master plan and we intend to follow it and take the line east right under the canal as the plan shows. We have provided neighborhood buffers by putting that park right at the intersection of Locust Grove and Victory and that helps the neighborhood. Then, you have got the pathway connection to -- you know, to connect the pathway in the future and, hopefully, some day there may be some transit -- just make a nice usable corner development on that 10-acre site. I'm happy to answer any questions. Borup: Questions from the Commission? Zaremba: On the sticky subject of the sewer -- Forrey: Okay. Zaremba: -- the developers of Tuscany were going to have a neighborhood meeting. Has that happened yet? I think they -they were trying to convince us that they could explain to you that you would save money by them running it through -- Forrey: Yes and in the staff report -- Zaremba: Has that happened yet? Forrey: The meeting has not happened. However -- Zaremba: I saw the letter from them. Forrey: Yes. I have got it in here as well and our engineer, Brent Claiborn -- Zaremba: It tells how they will save money. It didn't explain how you would save money Forrey: So, the engineers are going to be getting together and hammer through that, but I'm sure the meeting will happen soon because of the deadline I think that they have of September 9`h, I believe, from City Council. We have not had the meeting yet, but we will definitely attend. Zaremba: Do you have any anticipation of whether or not you will be convinced by them or disagree with them? , Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting August 21, 2003 Page 64 of 113 Forrey: Well, we are open-minded. I don't know. Zaremba: Does it make sense that if you -- I think what they were saying is the expense that would be reimbursed by a latecomer fee that you would have to pay back anyhow. If they run the 27 inch line, two canal borings, which is how they figure on saving money is not having to do that, but, instead, only a ten inch line needs one canal boring, I think that's where they are figuring you will get the savings. Is there any logic to that or -- Forrey: You know. I'd really have to defer to Brent Claibom and also to Bruce Freckleton. Those guys know sewer, costs, construction schedules, all of those things much better than I do, Commissioner. I -- I mean we haven't closed any doors. We don't see the savings, but we are sure open to talk to Matt about it and I'm glad he wrote the letter. We'll just need to dig into it. Zaremba: Okay. Forrey: But in terms of our responsibility, we are going to follow the sewer master plan and we are going to take the sewer to the east and under the canal at the pipe size that Bruce Freckleton wants. Borup: So, is that 27-inch that you will be -- Forrey: It's less than 27. Zaremba: I think it was eight inches, wasn't it? Beyond your property, I think its eight inches. Freckleton: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, it's not 27, it's -- and I don't believe it's an eight inch. I think we are talking a ten or a 12-inch going east. There is additional modeling that needs to be done to determine the size of that line. Zaremba: I had one other question on fences and Wendy can look into this question and I don't know which of you should be answering it, actually. You provide a drawing of what I guess will be the vinyl fence. Forrey: Yes. Here is a photo of it as well right here. Zaremba: Okay. Very attractive with a -- but is this in an area where we need four feet of it to be non-sight obscuring? I mean if -- I'm sorry. Usually up to four feet can be non -- could be sight obscuring and above that non. Kirkpatrick: Correct. Along the pathway it can be -- if it's sight obscuring it can be up to four feet in height, if it's non-sight obscuring, then, it can be at full height, I believe. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting August 21, 2003 Page 65 of 113 Zaremba: Okay. The vinyl fence, the way I read your drawing, 57 and 5/8ths inches are site obscuring, which is higher than four feet. Forrey: If that's your requirement, we will build it to the four feet. Centers: But I think you're talking the city pathways. These. are private pathways; correct? That's the way it's been present to me. Either way. Forrey: Mr. Chairman, Commissioner Centers, this pathway here will be open to public. That's a community pathway, 10-foot wide asphalt. The city will maintain the asphalt and the homeowners association will maintain the five landscape strips on both sides of that asphalt. Centers: Good Forrey: So, that's apublic -- Centers: I guess I was assuming your fence along the canal was going to be the wrought iron, but it's not. Forrey: It would be on this side here. That would be the wrought iron fencing. Centers: And then, the vinyl? Forrey: Vinyl was going to be here, here, here, and here and here and Wendy Kirkpatrick in her staff report has asked that this be wrought iron here. Centers: Yes. Well, that's in compliance, the way I see it. Zaremba: The places where he's indicated the Vinyl don't need to be that four-foot requirement. Kirkpatrick: Chairman, Members of the Commission, the four-foot site obscuring part of our code only applies to micropaths, but because this is a Planned Development, if you want to require something further, you can. Zaremba: No. No. I'm just -- I'm not trying to add anything, I'm just making sure which place is the right fences and it sounds like the right fence is in the right place, so -- Forrey: Okay. Zaremba: I never made that comment. I would add I really like your idea of thinking ahead to transit stops and Ithink -- Forrey: Someday. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting August 21, 2003 Page 66 of 113 Zaremba: -- that's my major issue and I'm really pleased to see that in the paperwork and have you mention it. I think that's great, one other question, though, that I didn't see mentioned by ACRD. Have you had any thought to cut-through traffic? If the intersection of Victory and Locust Grove consistently backs up, are you likely to have people finding an opportunity to cut through this neighborhood? Forrey: It never came up in any discussions with ACHD. Zaremba: It, hopefully, won't happen, but -- Forrey: Quite frankly, you're the second person to comment on that. Matt Schultz at the neighborhood meeting brought that up. He attended our neighborhood meeting and talked about sewer issues and he said do you think you will get any cut-through traffic and -- I guess it's possible, but these -- this is a collector and a minor arterial traffic control, so I would -- Zaremba: Hopefully not too much. Forrey: -- think you wouldn't get people that would take that risk of hitting children and, you know, driveway conflicts, just stay out on the collector and arterial. I would hope. It didn't come up with ACHD at all. Zaremba: Okay. Borup: Anything else? Forrey: Okay. Thank you. Borup: Was Mr. Claiborn --did he have some other things he was going to share? Claiborn: I'm just available to answer questions if you have any. Borup: Okay. I wouldn't mind expounding on -- Commissioner Zaremba had mentioned a couple of things on sewer that raised a couple questions in my mind that Mr. Forrey couldn't answer, so -- I think maybe we would. Claiborn: I'll do my best. Zaremba: I know, apparently, the meeting with the Tuscany people hasn't happened yet, but I'm just wondering how close they are on the logic, if you have any opinion about that, that you, in the long run, will safe money if they don't extend the main lines. Claiborn: Well, I think our client would be open to saving money if they clearly demonstrated how they could do that, but I don't know that we are in a position to say we have had that clearly demonstrated to us, how it would benefit them directly. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting August 21, 2003 Page 67 of 113 Zaremba: Okay. Claiborn: I don't think we are opposed to that in any way and we sure want to work with them however we can. Borup: To this point do you have any idea what your latecomer fee is going to be? Claiborn: We do not. That's a big question mark in my mind at this point. Borup: So, that would be the argument, that whether the ten or 12-inch line that you would be in would be less than what you would be paying in extra latecomer fees. Claiborn: Correct. Borup: I'm assuming if it saves you money, you would be interested. Claiborn: Certainly. Borup: Okay. Zaremba: Yes. That was really my question on that subject. Borup: Okay. Anything else? Thank you, sir. Claiborn: Thank you. Borup: Okay. Do we have anyone else that would like to testify on this application? Schultz: Good evehing. My name is Matt Schultz with Tuscany Development and our office is at 660 East Franklin in Meridian. Appreciate the opportunity to be here tonight. I didn't really come to reopen the whole sewer issue. I wasn't here for the last hearing, we were out of state, but I understand my engineer was here, attorney, a bunch of residents had some questions. That you guys did pass our application for Tuscany Village along to the Council with a recommendation for approval, which we appreciate and we are going to make that a case, that you mentioned. I sent out mailers to all the property owners in the area today, they will probably get theirs tomorrow or the next day. We are having a neighborhood meeting on Wednesday, September 3rd, at 7:00 p.m. at the Meridian Fire Department at 540 East Franklin Road. We reserved the conference room there to make our case. I did attend the neighborhood meeting for this application. We got a notice for the Sherbrooke Hollows Homeowners Association, that's -- my boss built that a few years back and so we got the notice from Sherbrooke that this was being held. I contacted Wayne, I knew him from some previous business, and asked if I could come and just see what he had to say and, then, you know, make the sewer pitch there. I have already given the sewer pitch to Wayne, Amanda, the engineer, as well as the Richardson's, they were there at the neighborhood meeting. They are the owner across the street, as well as the sellerAf this property to Quasar. In Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting August 21, 2003 Page 68 of 113 the back and forth in the staff commehts you answered a lot of my questions that I was going to come before you and ask. One being are they going to be required to extend it the full frontage of Victory Road to their eastern boundary, which was said yes, which I knew to be the case, I just want to confirm that for the record, such that upstream developers -- neighbors do get served. My point being that our big development to the south, which is kind of forcing this realignment issue, in combination with Tuscany Village, which you just approved two weeks ago and will go to Council in two weeks, in combination with this development, will pretty much cover everybody out there pretty close with sewer extensions, if not to their front door, within a stone's throw. We just want to make sure everybody pays -- every developer pays their fair share, whether the city passes that cost on to anybody else. I don't know how that works. I know that we asked for oversize reimbursement from the city and whether they pass that along to upstream developers or property owners, that's -- I don't know. I have never been in that position. I have always been in the front lines. I have always had to go a long ways off site to serve into our developments, just, for some reason, that's the property we develop. I did bring some interesting numbers -- before I do that, I'd like to go over a few things that I heard. Wayne, Mr. Forrey, mentioned that they were going to extend water the full frontage in Locust Grove to the intersection. He's not going to have to do that. We are doing it this fall. We are bringing it in for our Tuscany Lakes development. This is down south of Victory. We are bringing that in probably in about a month. It will already be there when they go to build in the spring. I wouldn't assume they are going to be able to get going until -- they might do some utilities in the winter and pave in the spring, as will our Tuscany Village project. In fact, we will be going at the same time, if all goes well, we will be building concurrently, and we can coordinate on that. We are going to have to pull sewer out of our -- out of our development up into victory and extend it to the Ten Mile Drain, as Bruce mentioned, and, then, they would come and get it. That's -- that's our take on the process development. I worked up some numbers that interesting showing what that would cost them not even paying half of that crossing, you know. I just assumed that we'd have to pay the full crossing, because we would be in first, but it may work out that we were able to work together on that. Then, I worked up numbers that -- what it's going to cost us to bring sewer in for our Tuscany properties to the south, which is a substantial amount more and if you spread it out over all the lots, it still works out that the cost to them is, actually, less per lot than our cost. I'm just seeing as a normal cost of development that they have to -- it's like 570 feet of sewer, some pavement, and a couple manholes that -- they are making a big deal out of it. I don't see it as that big of a deal. We are going through the motions of working through the politics on this, we are holding the neighborhood meetings, we are, really, trying to -- you know, in the end we feel that we are going to save us, of course -- I wouldn't be up here late a night making this proposal if it wouldn't save us money. In turn, we are building a 27-inch trunk line that is designed to serve, at half full, about 9,000 lots. I mean we are talking about an immensely size sewer drain that doesn't even begin to -- you know, our little developer -- I call mine little, compared to what that sewer line will serve and this acre is that we are having a neighborhood meeting about is even smaller than that. With that said, I just want to hand out some numbers for everybody's information. I will give them to Quasar as well, just kind of showing our take on the cost of bringing off-sites in and how I think with us bringing water in, they can bring a little bit Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting August 21, 2003 Page 69 of 113 of sewer in, we are bringing power all the way around them this fall -- I think they have got a sweet piece of property. I mean I'm actually jealous that they have a pretty easy time with the off-sites, compared to what we usually have to do, but with that, I'll just hand these out and answer any questions orjust go home. Thank you. Centers: You understand we are not mediators, don't you? Schultz: I'm glad you said that. I don't want you to be. Centers: Right. I just wanted you to know that. Schultz: I agree. Thank you for your time. Borup: Any questions from any of the Commissioners? Bruce, I have got a question on this 27 inch trunk line is to go to -- does that end in Locust Grove -- or where -- how far is that supposed to go? Is that anticipating servicing property east of Eagle in the future also or -- Freckleton: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, that is correct, it is the trunk line that will provide service to the southeast comer of our entire urban service planning area. Borup: Okay. Freckleton: So, the further east it goes it drops down in size, of course. That line picks up that service area to the southeast. Borup: Is there any estimate on the number of units that would still be left to service after this area? Freckleton: Mr. Chairman, we could come up with those numbers. I didn't came prepared -- Borup: But was that done in the original -- Freckleton: That's part of the master plan and -- Borup: -- master plan. Freckleton: -- the modeling they have done for the master planning, yes. When we do the master planning and the modeling, that's how you size those lines. You set the service area, you develop out a density that you think it's going to develop at and design accordingly. Borup: Okay. I'm assuming that a -- I guess let me know if I'm correct -- that a master plan is maybe somewhat similar to a Comprehensive Plan, it's the best guess and Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting August 21, 2003 Page 70 of 113 things can change as more specifics come along as far as engineering of specific developments, et cetera? Freckleton: Well, certainly. As a master plan or comprehensive plan, a lot of people use that as a tool for land purchases and development, you know, potential on the land and so -- as a planning tool. Typically, the big trunk lines will follow the low point to the land, the drains. There is not a whole lot of wiggle room, but certainly there is some. You know, we will show a trunk line that will follow a drain, but if there is development that does in, it makes sense for us to try and locate it inside of a public right of way, so that we have better access to it and that sort of thing. Borup: So, obviously, you can't design those public right of ways on undeveloped ground. Freckleton: Correct. Borup: Okay. I'm just thinking of some of the comments Mr. Schultz made. I mean there seems to be a lot of concern about varying from the master plan. In my mind, if all the properties still get serviced, I don't know why it makes any difference whether the trunk line takes a little different route, if everyone can be serviced and, as you say, future -- I mean landowners that perhaps purchased with that plan in mind, if their costs aren't increased. It sounds like that's really the question. Centers: But, Mr. Chairman, on the other hand, when they submitted their application for that development at that corner, they knew the master plan for the sewer and it's direction and, then, after the fact they come in and want to reroute it. You know, I think -- that's my comment. While we are on that -- well, do we have anyone else? Borup: Yes. I was -- I was planning on going there next, too. Anyone else here to testify on this application? If so, come forward. Zar-emba: I would comment for the record that we have a letter from Todd E. Youren and he is expressing displeasure with the project, feeling that it should be under 30 lots. I'm sorry, under 30 houses. Borup: I think Mr. Claiborn had a comment. Come forward. Yes. Claiborn: Again, regarding the issue of the sewer, I just want to make sure that you understand that there are two important criteria that we look at from our project and that is cost, as I mentioned. Two is timing and availability of that sewer, because that's what our plan is predicated on, because we based our plan on that sewer being available at the intersection of Victory and Locust Grove at the time we are going to need it, so -- thankyou. Borup: So, you're basing your project on the Tuscany Lakes project going forward. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting August 21, 2003 Page 71 of 113 Claiborn: We based it on the sewer master plan -- Borup: Well, but -- Claiborn: Yes. Borup: But the sewer master plan had no time frame. Claiborn: Correct. When we talked to Public Works, they explained that at probably the time we would be ready to connect that sewer line would be in as it was extended -- Borup: As long as Tuscany put it in. Claiborn: Correct. That's correct. Freckleton: Mr. Chairman, just maybe a point of clarification. At the time we had our first meetings with Mr. Claiborn and Ms. Alvaro, the plan was approved for the Tuscany Lakes Subdivision taking the sewer down Victory Road and down Locust Grove to serve the development. That is the current approval. We have construction plans in our office that are approved and ready to be built with that alignment and that was what was in place at the time we had the meetings with the applicant and now it's a different deal, so Borup: Okay. Thank you. Claiborn: Thank you. Centers: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to close the Public Hearing. Move that we do. Zaremba: I will second that. Borup: Motion and second to close the Public Hearing. All in favor? Any opposed? MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, TWO ABSENT Centers: I really didn't have any questions from Mr. Forrey or the developer, I just wanted to compliment them on their creativeness, imagination -- I drive by that parcel quite often and I have always wondered when that would be developed and it's very imaginative. Not that it -- the typical little cookie cutter sub. Down the street on Locust Grove, we approved a sub sometime back, they cut a road in, and that's it, lots on each side. There is one house in there. They haven't sold a thing. I think you know the sub I mean, Mr. Forrey. It was a Hubble Homes sub. Anyway, sometimes it takes some imagination and I think it's great. I'm in favor of the 20 foot moving of the gate if staff doesn't have a problem with that. I'd like to move forward. Thanks, again, for all the pictures, Mr. Forrey. You do an excellent job in your presentations. You had an excellent.project to present, though. , Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting August 21, 2003 Page 72 of 113 Zaremba: And the materials that we had ahead of time were very helpful also. Centers: Right. Zaremba: Thank you. I agree with Commissioner Centers. There are some innovative ideas, we are always asking for creativity, and we see some here, which is good. Mr. Chairman -- Borup: Are we clear on -- on some of the staff -- Zaremba: I have some notes from the plat. Borup: Comments -- Zaremba: But I don't have any notes for annexation or CUP. Borup: All right. Yes. I didn't either Zaremba: In that case, I move we forward to the City Council recommending approval of Item 13 on our agenda AZ 03-015, request for annexation and zoning of 9.8 acres from RUT to R-8 zones for proposed Sageland Planned Development by Quasar Development, LLC. Northeast corner of South Locust Grove Road and East Victory Road, to include all staff comments of their memo for the hearing date August 21, 2003, received by the City Clerk August 18, 2003. Centers: Second. Borup: Motion and second. All in favor? Any opposed? MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, TWO ABSENT Zaremba: Mr. Chairman, I move we forward to the City Council recommending approval of Item 14 on our agenda PP 03-020, request for Preliminary Plat approval of 39 building lots and nine other lots on 10.64 acres in a proposed R-8 zone for proposed Sageland Planned Development by Quasar Development, LLC. Northeast corner of South Locust Grove and East Victory Road, to include all staff comments of their memo for the hearing date August 21, 2003, received by the City Clerk August 18, 2003, with the following changes. On Page 9, Paragraph 5, it says revise the proposed private street to meet the private street standards of Meridian's Planned Development ordinance. I would add two sentences to that. The applicant has agreed to shorten the private street to 200 feet or less. Applicant has also agreed to install a swing gate satisfactory to the Meridian Fire Department at that 200-foot -- Centers: Well, I would say he hasn't agreed to shorten it. He's agreed to shorten it by moving the swing gate. Wouldn't that be correct? I mean -- I thought it was very Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting August 21, 2003 Page 73 of 113 imaginative the way he did that but he's shortening the street, he's moving the swing gate so that it meets the code. The street is staying the same length. Zaremba: Well, the way I interpreted the drawing, 200 feet of it would be paved and the rest of it would be -- Borup: Grass Greet. Zaremba: --grass Greet. Centers: Okay. Zaremba: He's adding 28 feet of grass Greet and subtracting 28 feet of asphalt. Centers: Very good, very good. Borup: So, you're saying the asphalt length would be shortened. Centers: Right. Zaremba: Yes. It still connects to Victory, but not as roadway, really. Centers: The intent is there. Yes. Good. Zaremba: So, is my statement okay? Centers: Yes. Zaremba: All right. Then, let's see, Page 9, Item 5, is as I said. On Page 10, Item 10, add a third bullet that says add a note to the plat that requires cross-access agreement for each set of shared driveways. Borup: Commissioner, while you're on that Number 10, I'm questioning -- and maybe some clarification. The second bullet, adding a note that says no sight-obscuring fence shall be taller than four feet in height. Do we need some clarification there saying no sight-obscuring fence along the pathway or something to that effect? Wasn't that the intention of that? Kirkpatrick: Actually, yes, that was the intention. You could say -- you could clarify along micropaths or along micropaths and the regional pathway. Borup: Okay. Kirkpatrick: Depending on how you want to go on that. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meetlng August 21, 2003 Page 74 of 113 Zaremba: So, under Page t0, Paragraph 10, the second bullet is changed to read add a note to the face of the plat stating that no sight obscuring fence shall be taller than four feet in height if that fence is along a micropath or an open area. Was that what you said? Borup: Well, she said micropath -- the proposed pathway -- Kirkpatrick: There are, actually, two different types of pathways, there are the micropaths and the regional pathway running along that canal. Zaremba: And we are including the regional pathway -- Kirkpatrick: We need to make the distinction whether we are including the regional pathway or not. Zaremba: The regional pathway, the micropaths, and the open area. Kirkpatrick: Okay. Zaremba: Okay. I believe that -- Borup: And by open area you mean the -- Zaremba: In the lower left comer. Borup: Lot 42? Zaremba: Southwest corner. Borup: Yes. Okay. Zaremba: Fine. Borup: Okay. We have a motion. Centers: Second. Borup: And second. All in favor? Any opposed? MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, TWO ABSENT Zaremba: Mr. Chairman, I move that we forward to the City Council recommending approval of Item 15 on our agenda, CUP 03-036, request for a Conditional Use Permit for a Planned Development with a private neighborhood park in an R-8 zone for proposed Sageland Development -- Sageland Planned Development by Quasar Development. Northeast corner of South Locust Grove and East Victory Road, to Meddian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting August 21, 2003 Page 75 of 113 include all staff comments of their memo for hearing date of August 21, 2003, received by the City Clerk August 18, 2003. Centers: Second. Borup: Motion and second. All in favor? Any opposed? MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, TWO ABSENT Item 16. Public Hearing: ZOA 03-002 Request for Amendments to Sign Ordinance: Borup: Okay. Okay. Next item, Number 16, is a Public Hearing ZOA 03-002. This is a request for amendments to the sign ordinance and I'd like to open this hearing at this time and start with the staff report. Hawkins-Clark: Okay. Chairman Borup, Members of the Commission, I guess I'll just tell you what I thought might be the appropriate presentation from staff and, then, I guess you can either concur or say if you'd like otherwise. You have had the ordinance and the specific amendments with the strike thrus and the additions, et cetera, for several weeks now and there are probably about ten sort of specific highlights of it that I thought would probably be worth pointing out to you. You know, there are a number of just grammatical, simple changes that are just going to, you know, help improve readability and things like that. I can either hit those ten highlights -- there is just a couple of slides, too, that might help to bring some clarity or if, you know, you're comfortable with what you have read and you'd prefer just to shoot questions at staff, I can go with that route as well. Borup: What would the Commission prefer? I read through it and, actually, I only have two questions, but -- Centers: I have one and that's it. Zaremba: I have notes that generate a couple questions. I think that's just as easy to do it that way. Borup: Okay. Why don't we proceed with that and, then, maybe if there is some that maybe we didn't ask on, then, you could hit those. Does that sound good? Hawkins-Clark: Sure. I'll just -- the first slide here just shows you that the committee was comprised of two sign company representatives, Debbie Anderson of Idaho Electric Signs, and Roger Llewellyn of Golden West Advertising. There was a real estate company representative on the committee, Stacy Wyrick of John L. Scott. Citizen representative was Malcolm MacCoy. P&Z Commission representative David Zaremba, and, then, I was the staff facilitator. We had our first committee in November of 2002. Four committee meetings were held in total, and, then, basically, the purpose of the