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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2010 05-11Meridian City Council Workshop Meeting May 11, 2010 A meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:00 p.m., Tuesday, May 11, 2010, by President David Zaremba. Members Present: President David Zaremba, Keith Bird, Brad Hoaglun, and Charlie Rountree. Members Absent: Mayor Tammy de Weerd. Others Present: Bill Nary, Jaycee Holman, Anna Canning, Jeff Lavey, John Overton, Bill Johnson, and Dean Willis. Item 1: Roll-call Attendance: Roll call. X David Zaremba X Brad Hoaglun X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird Mayor Tammy de Weerd Zaremba: Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. I will call to order this City Council workshop. It is May 11th, 2010, and it is 6:00 p.m. and we will begin with roll call attendance, Madam Clerk, please. Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance Zaremba: All right. Second is the Pledge of Allegiance. (Pledge of Allegiance recited.) Item 3: Adoption of the Agenda. Zaremba: The third item on our agenda tonight is the adoption of the agenda. Hoaglun: Mr. President? Zaremba: Mr. Hoaglun. Rountree: On tonight's agenda we have a couple of things to fill in. Under the Consent Agenda, Item 4-L, that resolution number is 10-723 and 4-N is resolution number 10- 724. And we will be pulling some things off the Consent Agenda, but for now I move adoption of the agenda. Rountree: Second. Meridian City Council Workshop May 11, 2010 Page 2 of 29 Zaremba: We have a motion and a second. All in favor say aye. Any opposed? Motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 4: Consent Agenda A. Purchase Agreement for Bittercreek Lift Station and Pipeline Vacated B. Second Amended Bittercreek Meadows Agreement for Sewer and Water Service Vacated C. Agreement for Extension of Domestic Water and Sewer Service Outside Meridian City Limits: 2990 S. Eagle Road, Parcel No. S1121336251 D. Agreement for Extension of Domestic Water and Sewer Service Outside Meridian City Limits: 2960 S. Eagle Road, Parcel No. S1121336230 E. Agreement for Extension of Domestic Water and Sewer Service Outside Meridian City Limits: 2910 S. Eagle Road, Parcel No. S1121336176 F. Agreement for Extension of Domestic Water and Sewer Service Outside Meridian City Limits: 3250 E. Victory Road, Parcel No. S1121336401 G. Agreement for Extension of Domestic Water and Sewer Service Outside Meridian City Limits: 3250 E. Victory Road, Parcel No. S1121336476 H. Budget Amendment: Request for Spending Authority of the Energy Efficiency Block Grant (EEBG) the City was Awarded Last Year for aNot-to-Exceed Amount of $550,800.00 I. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law, Decision & Order: RZ 09-005 Seyam Subdivision by Ronald Van Auker Located North Side of Franklin Road, Approximately 1,200 Feet East of the Eagle/Franklin Intersection: Request for Rezone of 6.54 Acres from C-G to I-L Zone and Rezone of 1.12 Acres from I-L to C-G Zone J. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law, Order & Decision: PFP 10-001 Monica Subdivision by B2 Investments, LLC Located at 327 N. Linder Road: Request for Approval of a Combined Preliminary /Final Plat consisting of 3 Building Lots on 3.62 Meridian City Council Workshop May 11, 2010 Page 3 of 29 Acres of Land in an I-L Zoning District K. Order Granting an Eighteen Month Time Extension for Emerson Park Subdivision: TE 10-002 Emerson Park by Kuna Victory, LLC Located at 2910 & 3030 S. Meridian Road: Request for an 18-Month Time Extension to Obtain the City Engineer's Signature on the Final Plat L. Resolution No. 10-723: A Resolution to Amend the Future Land Use Map of the 2002 Comprehensive Plan for Approximately 6.54 Acres Known as the Seyam Subdivision Located at Approximately 1,200 Feet East of the Eagle/Franklin Intersection, Meridian, Idaho from Commercial to Industrial and Approximately 1.12 Acres of Land from Industrial to Commercial M. Resolution No. 10-724: A Resolution Adopting the Changes to the Rate Schedule of the Solid Waste Collection and Authorizing the City of Meridian Utility Department to Collect Such; and Providing an Effective Date Zaremba: Thank you. Next is our Consent Agenda. Hoaglun: Mr. President? Zaremba: Mr. Hoaglun. Hoaglun:. As mentioned, under our Consent Agenda, Item 4-A and B, there is a request by legal to remove those from the Consent Agenda and so the motion will include that. And as noted earlier, 4-L, that resolution number is 10-723 and M is resolution number 10-724. And with those I move that we approve the Consent Agenda and that the Mayor or acting Mayor be authorized to sign and the Clerk to attest. Rountree: Second. Zaremba: All right. We have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda as amended. All in favor say aye. I'm sorry. That's a roll call vote, please, Madam Clerk. Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea. Zaremba: Thank you. All ayes. That motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 5: Items Moved From Consent Agenda Meridian City Council Workshop May 11, 2010 Page 4 of 29 Zaremba: Item 5 is items moved from the Consent Agenda. We have none of those. Item 6: Department Reports A. Planning Department: Meridian GIS Committee Update Zaremba: Item 6, we are onto the Department Reports and we will begin with Director Canning. Canning: Thank you. Under the agenda it says Planning Department Report, but, really, this is all city effort and I just wanted to let you know about it. I am here today to introduce the Meridian GIS team and that team is composed of Elizabeth Ashworth with the police department, Kathy -- and I don't know how to say Kathy's last name, so I'm hoping I get it right. Sudders. All right. From wastewater and water. Myself. Matt Ellsworth. Carrie Glenn from utility billing. Jaycee Holman. Roger Jack from Public works. Bill Johnson of the fire department. Rachael Meyers with parks and recreation. Terry Paternoster in IT. David Peety in IT. And last, but not least, Rob Sosnowski with IT, who is the official team leader and keeps us in check, as I -- as I try to side-step the group at every turn I can. But he's very good at keeping us on task and getting lots of work out of us. We have been meeting about twice a month thus far and we have actually gotten quite a bit done. The first thing we have done is decide what we are going to do and there is a ten step program for that and we have been working through that, evidently. The first step was preparing for the program and we have completed those tasks, which include coming up with a purpose statement, conducting a spot analysis, identifying chief stake holders and, then, grouping them according to influence and importance. And now we are in the midst of identifying business opportunities, so that we can interview different folks and understand what their GIS needs are. We will move on to prioritize those opportunities and, then, construct the GIS program. And, then, built into our group efforts we will be doing kind of a fiscal analysis of what makes sense with regard to GIS and making sure that we move forward on something that's fiscally sound. And, then, finally we will build a report and present it to you and we hope to do that in July. So, as I said, this is an aggressive schedule, but we have managed to do a lot of work in a short amount of time and we think that we can continue that way. This is so important I think to the city, because for years I have known that GIS was just kind of sitting there as a -- as an incredible unused tool for the city or underused -- not unused, but underused. And I think that these efforts that the IT department has started in this group that Rob has pulled together is really going to help advance GIS for the city. So, again, we just wanted to introduce ourself to let you know that we were working on this and that we will be back in late summer, early fall. And that was it, unless you have any questions. Zaremba: Thank you very much. Any questions or comments? Bird: I have none. Meridian City Council Workshop May 11, 2010 Page 5 of 29 Canning: And I promised to only take five minutes on the agenda, so that Chief Lavey won't hassle me. Lavey: He already did. Thank you. Zaremba: Thank you. Any further questions? It's abig -- big effort and I appreciate that it's happening. Thank you for the information. B. Legal Department Report -Discussion of City/Ada County Highway District (ACHD) Interagency Governmental Agreement for Waiver of Costs and Fees Zaremba: All right. Item B, Legal Department Reports. Discussion of city and Ada County Highway District interagency governmental agreement. Mr. Nary. Nary: Mr. President, Members of the Council, you have an agreement for waiver of the fees between the city. and the Ada County Highway District. We -- my staff -- Mr. Baird from my staff has been working with the staff at ACHD to put together this agreement. The basic -- the basic intent of this agreement -- I think is the desire by both the highway district and the city to not be exchanging, essentially, tax dollars across to each other, so there would be impact fees on site where there would be costs for roadway right of way purposes and those types of things. There was a little bug in it that Mr. Baird discovered that the original agreement also waived ACRD paying any fees for condemnation of any property of the city, whether it was approved or not. We felt that was a risk that that includes wells, could include this building, and any roadway improvement. That was never their intent. They didn't realize that it left it so open ended, so we made it very clear that the only property where compensation wasn't necessary was unimproved property, because, then, we are dealing with just, especially, right of way acquisition. In doing the analysis for finance, they found that this was a reasonable agreement, because very little of the properties that the highway district has ever purchased from the city is -- is fairly small in relation to impact fees that may be -- may be a part of that. Now, with the state statute being amended a couple of years ago, there is probably not a lot of impact fees that are going to be impacted any longer either, but we felt this was reasonable, felt this has worked for a long time. If you would like, I think this was on the list of items you wanted to discuss with the commissioners at the next joint meeting, so tonight I can probably answer questions. Mr. Baird's comment to me was that he felt that this was in its final form if you're satisfied with it and if you're not and you want to have further discussion we can. If you would like them to sign it first, we can certainly do that. So, if you want to do that, that's your option. Any other questions? Zaremba: All right. Thank you. First, any questions and, then, any opinions about whether we are ready to move forward or do we want to wait for a joint discussion? Bird: I'd like to read it first. Meridian City Council Workshop May 11, 2010 Page 6 of 29 Zaremba: That would sound like we probably want to save it for the joint discussion, then, and be more prepared for it. Any intervening questions for Mr. Nary? Mr. Rountree, you look like you have questions coming. Rountree: Bill, you may have -- you may have said it while I was reading, but has the ACHD board discussed this in a public setting? Nary: Mr. President, Members of the Council, Council Member Rountree, (believe -- think our advice today -- and Caleb's not here. I think Caleb having -- they were having a discussion I think tomorrow and we have a couple of different agreements, so apologize. I think this is part of the discussion of the final form. So, I'm not certain if they have adopted this as their final agreement as well. So, I think that's their next item for discussion. So, if you, again, wanted to wait for your joint meeting, that's probably the most appropriate. Hoaglun: Probably the best. Nary: Okay. Rountree: I would concur that that's what we do. Do you want a motion to that effect? Zaremba: Bill, do we need a motion or you just want to -- Nary: I think it's under agenda items list that you sent to the highway district by letter. Zaremba: Okay. Nary: So, I don't think you need to take any action. If you have comment or questions that you could let us know that before the meeting, after you have had an opportunity to review it, otherwise, you can certainly save that discussion for your joint meeting, that's perfectly fine. Zaremba: Okay. I would comment that I'm in favor of the basic premise that tax supported agencies should not charge each other. It all comes out of the taxpayers pocket one way or the other, so -- Nary: Yeah. Council Member -- or Council President Zaremba, as I said, when we did our analysis we really found that it truly I think is a great benefit to the city to not be having to pay these types of fees back and forth and I think the highway district, again, I think from their perspective it's just a layer of government we don't need to create or keep creating what we have, so -- Zaremba: Great. All right. We will be prepared to discuss this at a joint meeting with the highway district commissioners. Thank you. Meridian City Council Workshop May 11, 2010 Page 7 of 29 C. Police Department Update/Strategic Focus Discussion Zaremba: All right. The next item and all the rest of them on this evening, except for an Executive Session, are the police department and I'm happy to announce for the record we have a large contingent of our policemen here, very happy to have them here. We even have some of the canines coming in. How wonderful. Thank you. Chief Lavey. Lavey: Mr. President, Council, a short time ago I talked to the -- I'll start over. Mr. President, Council, a short time ago I actually spoke with the Mayor and she regrets not being here tonight. However, she was facing some jet lag and was going to sleep. So, we will do this without her. I was going to do it next month, but she informs me that she's going to be in Turkey next month, so I said we are just going to move forward without you. About a month ago I was asked by the Public Works Department to take their spot today. They were supposed to be speaking today on strategic planning and they were not ready and I volunteered and told them that I would take their place. Now, the sad thing is that us supervisors are meeting on June 10th for our strategic planning, so anything I tell you today you have already heard more than once. So, I decided to do something different and something you have been asking for a long time and that was to bring forward a lot of our new officers. So, in front of you today is men and women and the four legged friends of the police department that serves this community and I'd like to take the opportunity to introduce them today. But, first of all, I guess we will do the dogs first, so we can get them out of here. That really goes against my order and I'm kind of like Lieutenant Colaianni, I have a certain order I have to follow things in, but I'll adapt. A couple of new faces here is over in the corner behind -- on my left shoulder is Chris Figal and Ivan. He is one of our newest canines here to the police department. He was purchased through the community fund raising and through the budget amendment -- or, excuse me, the enhancement that the Council approved last year. You probably remember Bowser in the past. Bowser was a pound puppy that we rescued for 75 dollars at the Human Society. He is currently on his second handler, as they are -- I guess the dog's better than the officers, because he's already on the second handler. Seth Washburn right here used to have Bowser. Bowser divorced him and now we have Carlo and Carlo is the second newest member of the canine department and he was also purchased this last year. And, then, you have probably seen him in the past, Jeremy Lindley and Mac and, then, we have Blitz and Berle Stokes. Since the canines can't do anything separately, they all had to be here today. I asked for three and I got five. So, I'd like to introduce you to the newest four legged friends and to these officers and if you would like to visit the dogs, ask the handlers and you could probably step up there and check them out if you want to do that as well. Thank you, guys. Zaremba: It's a pleasure to have you here and to meet the canines, the dogs. Rountree: Jeff, any particular specialty of any of the -- Lavey: Yes. All four of the Malinois, which is the brown -- the brown dogs, are certified in patrol work and in drug detection. So, the patrol work is the criminal apprehension, Meridian City Council Workshop May 11, 2010 Page 8 of 29 the building searches, and area searches and such. And they also search for odors and narcotics. The fifth dog, the black one, is a single purpose dog and it is narcotics detection only. And all of them are certified in the state of Idaho. Bird: Jeff, is that Tiko's -- Lavey: Yes. That is Tiko's second son. Zaremba: Great. Thank you. Lavey: I would really hate to know what he smells considering all the trouble we have had lately. Okay. The weight challenged people, if you could stand up right here in front of everybody. The weight -- the weight challenged. The last couple of years the HR department has worked diligently to provide a wellness plan and I'm happy to say that several teams from the police department took place this year and I brought four of them here today to congratulate them for their accomplishments. This kind of goes in line with the police department's goal to establish a voluntary fitness program with a mandatory fitness program coming within the year and I think that with the hard work that these four individuals have done, they need to be recognized today. I can tell you that this group in front of you, Randy Goodspeed, Audra Urie, Will Stoy and Wayne Fuchs, lost a total of 57 pounds over a 13 week period. Zaremba: Wow. Lavey: And I can also tell you that Randy was our top winner, because he lost 27 pounds alone. And I'd like to just congratulate them and also point out that the -- the top female was Mayor de Weerd. So, congratulations to the four of you for your efforts. And those officers that are dying to write another ticket can go out there now. If I could have the rest of the group stand up in front, please. I just recalled all the officers that were present for Chief Anderson's retirement, so I just had to share in it, too. Over the last couple of months while I was in Quantico we had opened up a bunch of positions for promotions within the department and I'm here today to introduce you to some of the supervisor and command staff that are present, but also, first of all, to recognize two of our newest police officers within the City of Meridian. If you two could step forward right out here. Natalie Chopko is a four year veteran from a Treasure Valley law enforcement agency that decided to come work for us and the unique thing about Natalie -- and she may not want me to say this -- is that her father also works for the police department. I told him that there is only room for one. They are still fighting to see who that's going to be. The other individual is Andrew Moore. Andrew Moore has four years of law enforcement experience and he came from a parish in Louisiana. promise that he does not have a really deep accent, but it is there. And I would just like to recognize them for deciding to come to Meridian and they are in their early stages of training, so congratulations. Zaremba: Thank you. Welcome. Meridian City Council Workshop May 11, 2010 Page 9 of 29 Rountree: Welcome. Lavey: Got more officers coming in. The next two people are the corporals. If you could stand forward. Siems and Nesbitt. The next two individuals are Corporal Chris Siems on the -- on your right and, then, Officer -- or, excuse me, Corporal Tom Nesbitt from -- or on your left. And the unique thing about them is they also came from a law enforcement agency within the Treasure Valley and decided to come work for Meridian and since that time they have both promoted to the rank of corporal and, then, Chris has also taken on the additional roll of serving as the traffic unit supervisor recently. So, we would like to say thanks to them as well. Thank you, guys. Zaremba: Thank you. Lavey: Two newest members of the sergeant staff. If the sergeants could step forward. Don't be bashful. I'm all turned around. So, on your right is Sergeant Ryan Caldwell. On your left is Sergeant Martin Flores. Both of these individuals have worked for us quite some time now. I'm happy to say that we also have hired them from other law enforcement agencies within the Treasure Valley and Brian Caldwell served as a corporal within our patrol division prior to promoting to sergeant and, then, Martin Flores was playing around wearing shorts and working for the DEA and now he has to be clean cut and wear a uniform and I like it quite well, so congratulations to the two of you. Zaremba: Thank you. Lavey: And last, but not least, if the lieutenants could step forward. The unique thing about the lieutenants is they serve as the -- part of the command staff and this is kind of a tough decision there and I won't go into why. That's good. That could be good, that could be bad. I'd like to introduce you to Lieutenant Jamie Leslie on your right and Lieutenant Mike de St. Germain on your left. Both -- actually, Jamie came from a -- won't say Treasure Valley, he came from a law enforcement agency to the north and Mike came from a law enforcement agency in the south that we don't like to claim -- California maybe? Zaremba: Way south. Lavey: Great south. They both have been with our department for quite some time. They both served in a role as sergeant for quite some time. Jamie is going to serve the patrol division and Mike is going to continue serving in the investigative division. So, congratulations, guys. Zaremba: Congratulations. Lavey: You guys clear if you want. Zaremba: Thank you all very much. Meridian City Council Workshop May 11, 2010 Page 10 of 29 Lavey: They probably can't wait to get those ties off and everything else. Rountree: They have kind of left you. Lavey: My goal is to get done early. Just a couple other things that I would like to wrap up with on this is that over the last, oh, two years or so I have been filling you in on a couple different things, such as the range and officers and everything else. I'm happy to report earlier in the week that we have just received word that we are going to receive a COPS grant for four more officers for a total of three quarters of a million dollars over a three year period. So, that was -- that was very good news. I'm here to report that the RFQ for the range is in the hands of our purchasing agent and he was doing some fine tuning on some dates and everything else. I asked him to submit it to legal for their review as well. So, that will be ready in the near future. And the other good piece of news that Lieutenant Overton just provided me tonight is that although the school district is having major budget cuts, they are not going to mess with the SRO contract, because they learned last time that when they mess with it it's a bad deal and so it's -- although it's going to remain status quo, we are going to have continued partnership with the school district and move forward. So, that's good news as well. And with that end my department report, only to move into the next couple of items when you're ready. Zaremba: We are ready. Thank you for that. Hoaglun: One quick question for the chief. Zaremba: Mr. Hoaglun. Hoaglun: I notice Canyon .county is looking at a range over by Pickle Butte, which is quite a ways from here. Was there any discussion with Canyon county if there will be a joint on a range or is that something that's not going to work? Lavey: I do not know where that is coming from. It's my understanding that they are just attaching to part of a public range. It's an outdoor range. Rountree: Teddy Roosevelt range I think. Lavey: Yeah. The -- our plan was presented to the Treasure Valley partnership group to all elected officials in both Ada and Canyon counties and they are fully aware of what we are doing. The one thing I would say about the Canyon county is that it puts us back into the same position that we have had before and that's windshield time, sitting behind there, travel time and everything else. Knowing what -- what they are basing, I would be very surprised if it even went forward. But I will keep you posted on that. Hoaglun: Thank you. Bird: Mr. President? Meridian City Council Workshop May 11, 2010 Page 11 of 29 Zaremba: Mr. Bird. Bird: Regarding that, Jeff, I don't believe it was the commissioners, it was just the sheriffs department that was stating that and it would have to go before the commissioners. Lavey: The commissioners actually toured the grounds. They didn't really show much interest, but they weren't asked, really, to make a decision then. I think it's just kind of a research, kind of see where things are. Very early stages. Zaremba: Are we assuming that part of the financial justification for ours is that they would use time in ours? Lavey: Canyon county was not considered in that. Zaremba: Oh. Okay. Rountree: Mr. President? Zaremba: Mr. Rountree. Rountree: Jeff, just extend a thank you for your troops for being here. I know it took time out of their schedules and their day to put a tie on and be here, so appreciate that. And it was great to see them, see their faces. I think that's good for us. I think it's good for them, too. Zaremba: And tell them we are proud of them. Rountree: Yeah. Lavey: I think it is and it's one of the things that we used to always make it happen and we started to get so busy that we stopped making it happen and shame on us and it was just the perfect opportunity to get back to doing what was right. Zaremba: Much appreciated. All right. I'll let you move at the pace you want to move. D. Police Department (Code Enforcement Division) Report: Update to Meridian City Code Provisions Regarding Weeds and Other Nuisances Lavey: Okay. The next item is -- I'm, actually, going to have Lieutenant Overton address on the nuisance code and regarding weeds and other assorted nuisances. It's not all nuisances. Meridian City Council Workshop May 11, 2010 Page 12 of 29 Overton: It's not all nuisances. Good evening, President, Members of the Council. We come before you tonight kind of reflecting back on last year and the perfect storm we had. The really wet spring, weeds eight feet tall, all the foreclosures, and, then, discovering in our code that we had depended on to do everything we wanted it to do, fell short. Over the period of the winter and the spring we rebuilt it with a large amount of help through Andrea and Emily in the legal department. At the same time we that rebuilt the weed section she decided it was time to probably just clean up a whole bunch of old language. So, this new Title 4, Chapter 2, which you guys should all have in front of you, actually, combines all of our garbage codes in the old Chapter 1, general nuisances, weeds and abandoned vehicles. The reason abandoned vehicles have been brought into that now is because the state legislature passed a new law this year that said, basically, anything we do in abandoned vehicles has gone by the wayside. We have to go by state code. So, the little bit that we can influence on abandoned vehicles is in this new section as well. Part of the things we have taken care of on just the overall is we kind of got rid of bonfires in the streets. We haven't seen one of those in about 21 years that I know of. We looked at some things that we just have not seen and updated some of the problem areas, the things we do see that we are dealing with. Some of the dilapidated buildings, stagnant water issues, and brought those into the code to make it more current and applicable to today's problems. The biggest tool that this code brings to us has more to do with how we are going to do the enforcement and abatement on weeds cases. As you know last year when I came in front of you every time I wanted to do an abatement, basically, I was coming in front of you and it wasn't a very -- it wasn't quick, to be polite. It wasn't fast. It wasn't quick. It slowed us down while the weeds grew another two feet while we were waiting for that whole process to come forward. We have now changed the code, so we can write a weed violation for every day that it's a weed violation if we get a problem party that's not willing to take care of it. Each new day is another violation. We have streamlined the abatement process through legal, so we do not need to come forward every time and tell you what we are going to abate. We have enough people in our chain of command to oversee that and make sure that we are dotting the I's and crossing the T's, plus working with legal to make sure that we are doing all right, preparing those cases for court. We don't believe we needed to come in front of you each and every time to show you what we were doing. I think you want to see the results. So, this is really a lot of the clean up of those code sections and streamlining it and giving us a little bit better tool as we go forward, because as we have seen, we have got weeds now -- I had four people running around our city today, some are getting cut right now, some were cut last week, and we have got a bunch scheduled out right now. So, with that I ask for any questions you might have. Zaremba: Gentlemen, any questions? Bird: Mr. President? Zaremba: Mr. Bird. Meridian City Council Workshop May 11, 2010 Page 13 of 29 Bird: Just a comment. Lieutenant, I appreciate that, on the weeds and stuff, to get it taken care of and make sure all the I's are dotted and the T's are crossed, but the sooner the better. Overton: Thank you. Zaremba: Thank you. A lot of effort went into it and, I agree, you know, if the Council has approved something in concept, we don't need to hear every single one of them that applies to that concept. I think that's an excellent choice. Rountree: Mr. President? Zaremba: Mr. Rountree. Rountree: On the abatement that the city does, have you looked into just getting somebody on contract and -- or do you do that now? Overton: We actually -- by the end of last year we had streamlined to the point we had I think six places that we just were assigning. So, yes, we did -- we worked it out with finance to make sure we met with all the state codes and how we have to do the bidding processes and we were just calling them, getting them abated and moving forward. Rountree: Very good. Zaremba: Thank you. Overton: Thank you. E. Police Department: Discussion on Draft of Intergovernmental Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) for Use of Meridian Police Department's (MPD) Canine Holding Facility Lavey: Mr. President, Council, I get the next item. This is -- make sure I get this one right. I have got so many of them. Discussion on draft of intergovernmental memorandum of understanding for use of the meridian police department canine holding facility. Several years ago we built the canine training center on the city property next to the police department. When we built that the intention was to house the Meridian canines and also open it up to other agencies and for some time we had a one page form that people would use to check in their dogs and, then, I started doing some thinking and realized how much money we were spending on these dogs and how much value they were to us that we were assuming a risk by taking in other city's dogs without some sort of formal agreement. I contacted our legal department and that one page form went to six pages. That's what the attorneys will do for you. Nary: We lawyered it all up. Meridian City Council Workshop May 11, 2010 Page 14 of 29 Lavey: Even the item on the agenda is in lawyerese, which I had a hard time reading. So, in front of you today is an intergovernmental agreement that we would enter into with individual law enforcement agencies that would hold the city harmless if, in fact, something occurred in our building that was no fault of ours. There is a lot of legal jargon in there, there is a lot of definitions. Mr. Nary can explain if there is a legal question. I can explain any procedural questions in front of Council, but I will open it up to any sort of questions. I will tell you that we -- we originally talked about maybe doing a joint form that allowed all the Treasure Valley agencies to sign it at one time. We decided that that would not be practical for two reasons. One is that if we are having difficulties with one agency, we -- that we either want to remove them from using the facility or put greater restrictions on them, by having an individual MOU that would make it easier to do. The other thing is that once this is signed anyways, it's automatically approved next year and the year after until either they or us rescind it. So, it's not really that big a deal once it gets signed. So, with that I will take any questions that you have or defer to Mr. Nary if he has additional information. Nary: Mr. President? Zaremba: Gentlemen -- or do you have comment first? Nary: Mr. President, Members of the Council, just very briefly, what we really tried to accomplish I think with the police is it's a great program and a great opportunity to interact with other agencies and the chiefs concern, which was very legitimate is all the potential risk of harm that could happen to very expensive animals and through no fault of the city. The building burns down, something happens, and right now we have, essentially, a verbal agreement with folks and what we were concerned with is that we really have a verbal agreement many times with the handler, who may or may not have any authority to bind their agency for anything and we felt that by having this MOU, although it may be cumbersome, you really only have to do this once. We know the agencies that we currently have a relationship with, so we send this agreement to all of those agencies that we have ever done any work with as Boise, Ada County, Nampa, Caldwell, whoever, we can send it to them, they can pass it, they only have to do it once. Occasionally the police department gets a request from out of state entities, it would be a hindrance on somebody who called us on Thursday and wants to drop a dog on Friday, but that probably would be a hindrance to be able to do that, but we felt that wasn't a big trade off when the reality is most of the time you're going to get a little more notice than that or once you know that they are out there and make sure it's not a community that -- if you want to get it ahead of time you do it, we can certainly plan that ahead. It just seemed like a fair trade off to not, again, have an animal that might be -- you know, might potentially be injured or something happen to and, then, the city would be responsible for it or we would be dealing with the other agency in an adversarial way, which we don't want to do. So, although it does look pretty cumbersome, the reality is it's the process we have been doing, to have the animals that are being cared for, been using our facilities, and all we are doing there is memorializing them to make sure, again, that they recognize that this is at their own risk. We don't charge for the service, so there really is a great benefit to be able to have the opportunity to use it. Meridian City Council Workshop May 11, 2010 Page 15 of 29 Zaremba: Thank you. Gentlemen? Mr. Rountree. Rountree: Earlier when we saw our friends and some -- and, Jeff, you mentioned that they are all certified. In the definition of police dog it doesn't speak to any kind of certification, just training. So, is -- would reference to appropriate certification be appropriate there? Do you want an uncertified dog in that kennel with potentially other folks -- Lavey: I understand what you're saying. I think what I would do is just leave it as a police service dog and the reason why I say that is it takes 260 hours for patrol work and an additional 160 hours for narcotics work or explosive work in order for that dog to be certified. That took us ten weeks and that was with us dedicating every single day. For some agencies it takes up to a year. So, I think it would be more appropriate if we just said a police service dog owned by -- by a municipality or some sort of government entity. Certification doesn't really concern me so much as just them agreeing -- one other -- for an example, one of the other things is it puts the burden on them to take care of the dog. They have to have a presence there twice a day. They have to do the feeding, they have to do the cleaning and everything else, because a lot of times dogs were being dropped off and, then, they weren't being cared for by their handlers or their agencies. So, I don't believe the dog needs to be certified, it just -- it has to be a dog that's owned by a government entity, so you're not bringing in your own personal dog to the facility. Rountree: Your comment leads me to my second question. In the facility control and maintenance it speaks of an absentee owner and in that case, with advanced notification, a Meridian Police Department officer will do the feeding and watering of the dog. I know we are doing this at no charge, but is that going to become a burden to either get somebody off duty there to do it or have somebody on duty to have to come in and do it? Lavey: What we do is we have them make the arrangements with an on duty canine handler, so if the on duty canine handler is already there -- we don't let any other police officer take care of the dogs. They have to be a police officer that's actually training him and the dog, so if we know that the police officer is going to be working that week, he can take care of the dog, we will allow them to do that. But it's going to be -- that's why we need that written the way it is, is that you have to assume that there is going to be nobody there to take care of the dog and, then, on occasion you might be able to make some sort of special arrangement and if that's the case we would allow that. But we need to have that final say. Rountree: And by designated MPD, your intent of that word is that it's going to be one of our canine officers? Lavey: Correct. Meridian City Council Workshop May 11, 2010 Page 16 of 29 Rountree: Okay. Lavey: One of the things that we found out is we were using civilian volunteers out in the -- out in the facility and it was a recommendation by the legal staff that we cease doing that. Rountree: Would that be good to clarify in this, that it's a canine officer? It just says designated officer. Nary: I'm sorry, Council Member Rountree, Ididn't -- Rountree: Would it be better to clarify in the MOU that it's a canine officer -- designated canine officer? The way this reads it could be any officer. Nary: It could be any officer that's designated by MPD. Rountree: Right. Nary: But we certainly could put MPD canine officer. That's certainly no problem. Lavey: We can do that. Rountree: That zeros it right into the select group that will be doing this. Nary: Right. Yeah. And I can't imagine, chief, that there would be an -- that you would ever have anon-canine handler handling that -- these animals or your own. Lavey: Well, we did and we ceased to -- Nary: Right. Right. But in the future I wouldn't think we would have that. Lavey: Correct. Nary: So -- Bird: Mr. President? Zaremba: Mr. Bird. Bird: And we are making sure all the dogs that come in are veterinarian certified? Lavey: Yeah. They have -- yeah. Yeah. Bird: Kennel cough, stuff like that? Because sometimes you get a new dog and haven't had a chance to check him over and I know in the -- in the kennels that you get kennel cough started and it can run through there pretty fast. Meridian City Council Workshop May 11, 2010 Page 17 of 29 Lavey: Exactly. Kennel cough is probably one of the most contagious things that is non-life threatening, whereas Parvo is more life threatening and we have had both of them out there and all dogs are required to be vaccinated before they are -- Zaremba: I'm not suggesting to change this, but just bear in mind -- or watch if -- in case anybody is abusing it, leaving their dogs too long, we may think about, you know, the first five days there is no charge. After that there is a charge. Or if one of our handlers is involved there may be a charge for that. I'm not saying we need to change it now, but just monitor it as it goes along and if we feel like we are being abused I would consider something like that. Lavey: And, President Zaremba, I totally agree with you. I really debated on whether we should be charging right now and as long as it's not a burden, as long as it's something that we can do while we are there on duty, we are okay with it, but if it gets to be a major use or if it's a major abuse, we will either remove their privileges or we will come in front of you and start charging them, because I actually do think it is quite appropriate that we charge them, but we are being nice right now. Zaremba: Any other questions? All right. Thank you. I'm sorry. Do we need to take any action on that or just -- Nary: Mr. President, Members of the Council, I don't believe so. I mean if you're comfortable with the agreement, we can make the change that you want. If you would like to have final approval, we can bring the agreement back with a resolution adopting that. If that's your comfort level we can certainly do that and put it on the 25th. Bird: That would be my preference. Zaremba: To see it again? Bird: Yeah. Bring it back with the final. Zaremba: Okay. Nary: We will make the changes on -- Bird: I think Charlie would probably like to see the change. Zaremba: Yeah. Rountree: Yeah. Lavey: That would also give you time to read more in depth, too. Rountree: Read through it. Yeah. Meridian City Council Workshop May 11, 2010 Page 18 of 29 Lavey: There is no hurry. And, then, keep in mind, too, is that once you do agree to the verbiage, it will have to come in front of Council each and every time an agency wants to have it signed anyway. Probably be on the Consent Agenda and you could pull it if there was issues. Bird: Let's pass it with boilerplate and we can Consent it. F. Police Department: Discussion -Proposed Update of Meridian Police Department Standard Operating Procedures Regarding Off-Duty Secondary Employment of Meridian Police Department Officers and Hiring On-Duty Officers by Private Parties Lavey: Okay. Mr. President and Council, it looks like the next item on the agenda is F, labeled proposed update of Meridian Police Department Standard Operating Procedures regarding off-duty secondary employment of Meridian Police Department officers and hiring on-duty officers by private parties. That also was written by an attorney. Zaremba: Who would have guessed. Lavey: I was going to say several months ago we had this discussion in one of my strategic updates. However, we had this discussion going back a year and a half or so about the possibility of charging for police services that go above and beyond what we are required to do legally and what we have chosen to as a city. Such example is if a business wanted security at a special event, if a school wanted -- or not a school, but a sporting event is having something going on and they want to hire security, it would not behoove us to provide those services free of charge and, then, it takes away from the things that we are required to do. We further had that discussion as to the potential of somewhere down the road is when we look at approving temporary use permits, is make a requirement saying we will approve this if you have X number of officers. I'm not coming in front of you today to discuss that. That's something that I think that if we were to agree on what we are going to talk about today, we would have everything in place that if it got to be a point that we wanted to do that we could sure do that. What I'm here today to talk to you about is two things. One is the -- current policy of the police department allows secondary employment with the exceptions and I went ahead and had legal review that, just because I felt that what we are going to talk about today under hiring a -- a third party hiring a police officer, it kind of fit into that whole realm, that whole thing -- that same policy. You probably aren't real interested in the policy itself on the beginning. What I really want to talk about is on page six and that's hiring of on-duty officers by a private party. And we talked about this some time ago and I can tell you that we have already had contact by five different entities this year wanting to hire police officers for events going on within the city. I'm in front of you today to present this other fine piece of legal document and if there is any legal questions I'll defer to Mr. Nary, who has left the room. If I can answer any other questions I will sure Meridian City Council Workshop May 11, 2010 Page 19 of 29 attempt to do that. We didn't recreate the wheel. What we did is we went as far away as Spokane, to Seattle, and some of our local agencies here in town to see what they do as far as hiring off-duty police officers and that's where we got the verbiage that's in front of you today. One of the things that we discovered is in places like Seattle it's just a little too big for us and so we had to -- to really kind of throw out what they said and most of what you see in front of you today is just taken from the city of Spokane in Washington state. So, it's not anything that we recreated or it's not something that we created on our own. So, with that, this would allow us to actually charge a fee for police services above and beyond what we are required to do in the city. And with that I'll take any questions. Bird: Mr. President? Zaremba: Questions? Mr. Bird. Bird: While I'd like to -- you know, I'd like to see us keep the fees as reasonably possible, I don't think your 40 and 50 dollar fees are -- if they at all cover our costs. Lavey: One of the things that we have done, Mr. Bird, is taking our fully loaded straight time fees and our fully loaded overtime fees and we did an average. But if you read the -- the proposal, it gives us the mechanism to actually either reduce -- or to return money or they have to pay us more money if our actual costs are higher. So, what we would end up doing was -- would be taking the actual wages of the officers and they would be paying the exact wages and these -- these -- Bird: You have equipment and everything else. Lavey: And these fees are what the rest of the valley is also charging. Rountree: Mr. President? Zaremba: Mr. Rountree. Rountree: The way I read this they are still in Meridian's employment, so how does FLSA factor into this additional time they are going to be working in terms having to pay overtime? How does workmen's comp factor in? Is that going to be all factored into the cost? That's all part of your equation? Lavey: We have actually -- the only part that's not in the equation is the actual car. And we could actually take the car and break down the cost of how much that is. What we did -- we have done is we have taken every benefit that we pay into, the workmen's comp and retirement and everything else and that's all covered. It is an overtime base. We are charging -- these are overtime rates of officers and so they are already working over -- they have already worked their regular shift and they are working on an overtime basis and, then, these third parties are paying the overtime rates. Meridian City Council Workshop May 11, 2010 Page 20 of 29 Rountree: Could we not make it simpler by simply stating that in the ordinance, that employment of police -- Meridian police officer for extra-curricular activities will be compensated at their appropriate overtime rate and all fringe benefits, including car and the requester will be billed that amount or do we have to tell them up front what it might cost them and so they can say yes or no? Nary: Mr. President, Members of the Council, I mean we certainly can do it either way. mean we can certainly do that, where all we are telling them is you're going to have to pay whatever it is, but, realistically, like you just said, they are going to want to know what that cost is going to be. I think what our department and the police department -- police department is trying to accomplish was figuring out an average that would incorporate all that. They are going to be covered under work comp. If they are working an extra duty assignment in uniform, they are going to be -- they are going to be compensated -- they are going to be covered by work comp if they get injured. But they are being paid at an overtime rate. I think trying to get the average is, from an administrative standpoint, is going to be a lot easier to manage than trying to figure out each individual officer that's there and this one's making 19 dollars an hour and this one is making 23 dollars an hour and what the overtime rate is for this one or does that one add them up. I think -- I think on -- to be realistic, I think this average will probably be slightly, but I don't think significantly on the high side, which I think is, obviously, a benefit to the city to manage. There are, obviously, going to be occasions when you have a supervisor, depending on who the supervisor is, they may be a little bit low, but think it will balance out. I think administratively it's certainly easier to manage. Rountree: So, how does that factor in if -- in the situation where there is an officer, essentially on duty at a non-city event and not necessarily city activity, there is an altercation, whatever, and there is a claim against the city, is that factored into the cost that whoever is hiring this police officer is going to pay or is that on the city's dime? mean I -- I'm not trying to get too wild here, I'm just trying to make sure that -- basically, they are still our employee. Nary: Right. And depending on what it is. I mean depending on what the circumstance is and the chief could probably add onto this, but depending on what the activity is -- I mean if you -- for example, if our officer is working an activity at R.C. Willeys, they have an outdoor event, they expect -- a wheel of fortune event and they expect a lot of people, so they hire an extra officer to be there, and a felony occurs, in the state of Idaho you can activate to address the felony that occurs and that's on our dime. That's our responsibility anyway. The fact that he happened to be there, because R.C. Willey hired him, it's probably not R.C. Willeys responsibility, because a felony occurred in his presence. If it's a misdemeanor and that's a policy that the officer activates himself to them when it becomes the city's responsibility versus the entity's responsibility. And that's, really, a policy issue and, chief, I don't know that that's addressed in this document or not. Lavey: No, it's not. We asked legal to forward this to ICRMP as well, so they could review it and make sure it's consistent with what they are seeing with the rest of the Meridian City Council Workshop May 11, 2010 Page 21 of 29 agreements, because we are not trying to do anything that isn't being done already and Mr. Nary is correct in that if an officer was off duty and observed the activity and self engaged is what we called it, we would be just as liable if he was there in uniform in a security role and decided to take law enforcement action. Now, where we would not be liable is if the -- well, where the reduction in liability comes in place is if the officer is doing something that would be either a violation of state law or a violation of department policy where we could reduce our liability, but ultimately we are still going to be stuck, because we are the ones that has the deep pockets and they are going to come after us, regardless of whether they were on duty or off duty. Bird: Mr. President? Zaremba: Mr. Bird. Bird: I would like to -- if I was the event person hiring, I would want to know up front how much this officer is going to cost me. It's like if I hire an electrician I know it's going to be 80 dollars an hour. Eighty dollars. That's a truck and him and his equipment. But we send a police officer out there with a car and adeal -- and I think you take off of your supervisor's -- you have one rate, your supervisor's -- where if you send a 19 dollar an hour officer out there, which I don't think we have any. I hope we don't. We just put a little more money in the coffer. But at least we cover whoever -- if the chief has to go out there or whatever. It's the same as electrical or any contractor, they figure their cost per that hour off of their journeyman or their -- whatever they are and if an apprentice goes, hey, that's just a little less. But I -- as an event guy, I would want to know up front what I had to pay. If I had a guy for eight hours, it cost me X amount of dollars. Zaremba: And I agree with that, because I have been on the event side of this many times and I know you didn't want to get into the temporary use permit discussion, which we will also have, I think, but -- Lavey: Oh, I don't have a problem with that. Zaremba: Oh. Okay. Lavey: I just wasn't bringing that in front of you today. Zaremba: All right. Just in my experience -- and I have gone all over the country hiring police officers for traffic control and pedestrian control and stuff when we do major transportation systems. Almost invariably they are off duty police officers who we hire through something that's usually called a police auxiliary board or something like that. I mean they are official police officers, they do wear their uniforms and they either have them with their motorcycles or their cars, but, one, we do know up front what we are going to pay for each and every one of them and -- because we have to bid to our client what all our costs are going to be, but they are clearly off duty, even though they are fully uniformed and using equipment and it's the police auxiliary agency that schedules them for us. We say we need six at this intersection for four hours and we need five at Meridian City Council Workshop May 11, 2010 Page 22 of 29 this intersection for ten hours and it isn't actually the city's police department that's supplying them, although I know there is a very close relationship, so -- Lavey: FLSA rules, regardless of whether you call them on duty or off duty, they are on duty. Zaremba: Okay. All right. Lavey: Because they are doing the same job that they are paid to do regardless. So -- Imean it's just -- it's semantics, but -- Zaremba: Okay. Lavey: -- as far as risk management, as far as workmen's comp and everything else, they are on duty. Zaremba: Okay. Lavey: But lunderstand -- and that's -- and I understand where you're at, too. It's a different way of regulating it, but we looked at it and they are already doing the same job they are paid to do, they are already on duty, we don't have a police auxiliary league to manage that, so it didn't make sense to go down that route. As far as what we charge them, I don't have an issue with charging them whatever we charge them. We do have officers that make 19 dollars an hour, but not on an overtime rate. I'm not -- and this is where I have to defer to counsel, is I'm not sure someone's going to want to pay the overtime rate for a sergeant if they don't have a sergeant working there. One of the other things we could do is we could take the highest paid officer and use that rate and regardless of who they get -- and the highest paid officer and the highest paid sergeant and possibly do that, too. But I'm not stuck on any of this. This is just what the standard practice is around the valley, but I'm open to any suggestion. Rountree: It seems to me if you take the average, then, you kind of cut out those higher paid folks that might want to do overtime. So, if that's your intent, great. I don't know. Lavey: What we actually did is -- the figures that we had was 37 and 53 and we rounded up and it rounded down, so that's where you got the 40 and that's where you got the 53. So, they actually would be getting -- if we had the highest paid sergeant working they would actually be getting a little bit better deal. If they had the highest paid police officer working, they are still paying three dollars more an hour and we figured that would cover the cost of the car. That's where that comes from. Bird: If I'm an event guy, I have got 40 and a 50, I'm going to say I want the 40 dollar guys. Meridian City Council Workshop May 11, 2010 Page 23 of 29 Lavey: Well, no, that's why the rules say that for every three guys you have to have a supervisor and so you're going to get three guys for 40 and, then, the fourth guy is going to be 50 and, then, three more guys for 40 and -- Zaremba: That's not a surprise. Lavey: -- and the sixth guy for 50. Because that's exactly what I would do, too. Zaremba: Yeah. Lavey: And so we -- that's the rule we put in there is for every three officers you would have to have a supervisor. Rountree: So, I would eliminate the pay backs on -- Hoaglun: Mr. President? Rountree: I would eliminate the pay back option. You know, that's the flat -- that's the rate. Bird: Pay a flat rate. Just figure it up. Lavey: Well, one of the things that we could do, then, is we can re-examine the -- all the benefits -- Rountree: Sorry, Brad. Lavey: Oh. I will forget what I'm saying if I don't -- if I stop now. One thing that we could do is re-examine all the pay, all the benefits. I'll have finance do the double- checking on the figures to make sure that they are correct and, then, we could also bring that back to Council on the 25th as well and we can consider it. Zaremba: Okay. Rountree: And before we forget that money thing, can we -- if we do this can we establish that by resolution, so we don't have to amend the ordinance every time we readjust that every year with increases in salaries? Nary: The salaries aren't likely to go up more than five percent and we would have to do the rate charged by the city, so we would have to -- we would have to advertise it like any other rate that you charge for any other service -- Rountree: Over five percent. Meridian City Council Workshop May 11, 2010 Page 24 of 29 Nary: But -- for the first one, because it's new. Then, after that, unless the salary is going up beyond five percent, which I can't foresee that in the immediate future, you could adjust the rate annually without re-advertising and having a hearing. Rountree: Okay. Lavey: One of the things that we discussed also with Emily from legal was that maybe we could put this in with all the other public records, fees and everything else we charge, so when it's approved it's all approved at the same -- it's all in one place, instead of disjointed. Rountree: Good idea. Zaremba: Because the one that will get the questions will probably be the clerk's office. So, yeah, they -- they should have it. Mr. Hoaglun. Hoaglun: I just had a question on -- I don't know if special events would ever want an officer with -- a canine officer with a dog and -- does that fee cover that or is that going to be something different? Lavey: They probably couldn't hire that out. The specialty -- the canine is a specialty and we need it first and that would be one if the officers were working an event and they needed and they needed a dog and they called the dog in, it would be just like any other call that we were going to respond to, we provide that service. I don't want to have a dog stationed at say the speedway and they are not in use -- they are not in use or we are taking them out of use for the rest of the -- the rest of the city. I think it's acase-by- case basis that if a dog's needed there, the dog's going to be appropriate there whether we got officers working there or not. We will supply the dog. But I don't want to have one stationed there and where they can hire a dog. Hoaglun: Okay. So, for example, if someone is going to have a concert in the park and they said, you know, we really want this to be a clean concert, we can have a drug dog there, you're going to say we will take care of that. Lavey: Correct. Hoaglun: It's going to be -- okay. Lavey: Correct. We will do like a drive through or something like that. Zaremba: Thanks. Any other questions? Good plan. Thank you. G. Police Department: Discussion -Update on Discharge of Firearms Ordinance Meridian City Council Workshop May 11, 2010 Page 25 of 29 Lavey: Oh, I do have one more. I'm probably going to have to defer to Mr. Nary on this one. The last item I have before you under G is discussion on the update on discharge of firearms ordinance. This came in front of Council several months ago, several Council members made comments on it, and Emily took those comments into consideration and produced the documents in front of you today. Some of the things that have changed were taking out traps and there was some discrepancies on what were you trying to -- were you talking about traps as in trap shooting versus traps -- field traps on the water. I think that's been cleaned up and removed. So, what we are asking Council to do is review that and see if there is any other corrections that stand out that need to be made and, then, if there are we will do that and if they are not, then, we are ready to push forward on this. Nary: Mr. President? Zaremba: Gentlemen, questions? Mr. Nary. Nary: Mr. President, Members of the Council, this -- as Chief Lavey said I mean this -- this came to you awhile back. This isn't related to any recent incidents that occurred. This is also being in compliance with the state code. There were some changes to the state code as to when discharges are allowed and what the cities can prohibit. The state legislature has made it very clear in a number of ways that they are the final say on firearms in the state of Idaho and what cities are allowed to regulate. So, our current ordinance is out of date with the directives from the state legislature, so this will bring us in compliance with that. In our recent incident that we had, the way our current state ordinance -- or, excuse me, our current city ordinance reads, may have been applicable in that circumstance of discharging a firearm in regards to a dog, but under the state code it wasn't -- it's clearly not prohibited under state code and the state code preempted our ordinance anyway. So, this brings us into compliance with that as well. I just think the last discussion we had with you, the issue or discussion really centered around what are allowed to be discharged in the city and what are not. And, again, this originally had come, if you recall, from the request last year to shoot arrows in the park as part of an activity under a temporary permit or a special event permit and finding that, in fact, that we didn't have anything regarding shooting arrows in the park and we really didn't think that would probably be safe and so this is something that really had stemmed from and that's why the concern. Zaremba: Mr. Hoaglun. Hoaglun: Just a quick question, Bill. I think they are smaller than four ounces, but those little rockets that science classes use and different things, those propellants, those are less than four ounces. Do you recall? It talked about dischargeable instruments, rockets having a propellant charge of more than four ounces. I know they can get some pretty big rockets, but most of those are fairly small. Meridian City Council Workshop May 11, 2010 Page 26 of 29 Nary: And, Council Member Hoaglun, I don't know the -- I don't know the specifics of why the four ounces was chosen, so I don't know the answer to that. We can certainly look into that before we bring it back for final -- Lavey: I can answer that. One of the things that Emily told me is that all the wording out of here is taken out of local ordinances and that's where they came up with the four ounce figure is it covers all those hobby rockets and everything that the kids do. You can do those. It's the people that, the professionals and stuff where they actually shoot rockets several hundred -- or not several hundred. Several -- yeah. Several hundred feet into the air where they are already violating FAA restrictions and everything else and so this would just be our ordinance to say, hey, you can't use those big rockets. But that's where we came up with that. Zaremba: I guess one question I would have that -- it's a misdemeanor to violate this, but one of the things that brings it to mind is the Fourth of July when people all over the country shoot guns into the air and, then, the bullet comes down and hurts somebody. If -- if we could prove that somebody's violating this -- kills somebody, would -- does that fall into a different category or -- Lavey: That does. That would fall into a felony and you could actually be charged with that. Zaremba: And we don't have to specify that here. Lavey: Minimally would be unintentional or involuntary manslaughter would be the -- would be the minimum and, then, if you could show that they -- they knew what they were doing and disregarded this, then, it would be voluntary manslaughter and up the line. But, yes, you would -- you can't do that anyways. Zaremba: Okay. So, this doesn't prevent somebody -- Lavey: No. Zaremba: -- with being charged with that if they were -- okay. Good. Any other questions or comments? Rountree: So, this would prohibit a paint ball enterprise inside a building? Lavey: This would -- this would prohibit a paint ball outside. If you were an authorized business you could do that. Nary: Council Member Rountree, in subsection two, if you think it's -- you need to clarify that if it's an indoor facility that the paint ball -- because we had it for firearms that discharge there or shooting ranges. If we wanted to make it clear we could certainly add paint ball facility that lawfully occurs or something like that, so it's not at somebody's house, it's a paint ball facility. Meridian City Council Workshop May 11, 2010 Page 27 of 29 Rountree: Yeah, because Idon't -- what's covered by that sports shooting range? Are bow ranges included in that? Nary: I believe so. Rountree: Is the range that Cabela's could have inside covered by that for bows? Obviously, they don't discharge firearms, but -- I know I can't shoot my BB gun in my garage. Lavey: Mr. Rountree, the intent is not to take those away, so if we need to write it in a manner that it's more clearly understood, other than -- what does it say? And other permitted uses. We can sure spell that out, because the -- the intent would be is if you are doing an authorized practice in a safe facility. That's what we want, whether it's a paint ball facility, whether it's an archery range, whether it's -- Bird: Rifle range. Lavey: -- a rifle range, it doesn't matter to us, it's -- it would have been designed to do that safely. We don't want the person that's actually trying to shoot his rifle in his backyard to -- whatever we need to do to make it clear. Nary: And, Council Member Rountree, the sports shooting range, that's identified in the ordinance 55-2604, subsection three, says in areas designed and operated that's used for rifle, shotgun, pistol, silhouettes, skeet, trap, black powder, archery, or any other similar sport shooting. Rountree: So, in those establishments that might have an archery range, that's something that we need to remind them to -- to identify and establish as defined by state statute in order for them to do it. Nary: Yes. And I think probably to help be clear as well, if we are going to add a paint ball facility that's lawfully approved or something to that effect. Rountree: Yeah. Nary: We would probably want to make sure we used the same language that, again, somebody is not going to claim my house is a shooting range, because -- Rountree: Yeah. Yeah. Lavey: And it should also be the same language we use when we review temporary use permits and -- Nary: Right. Meridian City Council Workshop May 11, 2010 Page 28 of 29 Lavey: -- everything else. So, maybe a temporary safe facility to do that in. Rountree: Because you know it's going to happen. Lavey: We will see it. Rountree: Yeah. Zaremba: A lot of work. A lot of updates. Lavey: Mr. President, Council, I am happy to say that we are done. Rountree: Very good. Item 7: Other Items Executive Session per Idaho State Code 67-2345 (1)(c) - To Conduct Deliberations Concerning Labor Negotiations or to Acquire an Interest in Real Property, Which is Not Owned by a Public Agency Amended Agenda to Include (fl - (to consider and advise its legal representatives in pending litigation) Zaremba: Thank you very much. Appreciate all the information and moving through it swiftly as well. Gentlemen, last item on our agenda is an Executive Session. Rountree: Mr. President? Zaremba: Mr. Rountree. Rountree: I would like to amend the agenda and -- Zaremba: Okay. Rountree: On this next item and have (f). Is that legal? Nary: Per legal you're talking about litigation? Rountree: Litigation. Nary: Yes. Rountree: Okay. Mr. President, I move we go into Executive Sessions per 67- 2345(1)(c) and (1)(f). Bird: Second. Meridian City Council Workshop May 11, 2010 Page 29 of 29 Zaremba: We have a motion and a second. Madam Clerk, we need a roll call. Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. EXECUTIVE SESSION: (7:15 p.m. to 8:39 p.m.) Zaremba: All right. I would entertain a motion to come out of Executive Session. Rountree: So moved. Bird: Second. Zaremba: We have a motion and a second. All in favor say aye. Any opposed? Motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Rountree: Move to adjourn. Hoaglun: Second. Zaremba: Motion and a second. All in favor say aye. Any opposed? MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Zaremba: We are adjourned. MEETING ADJOURNED AT 8:39 P.M. (AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) ~~~ o~ ~ i a~ i ~~iy DATE APPROVED .JA CE . HOLMAN, CITY CLERK SEAL = ~o~ 'y~~~T15'~. ,"~ '%,,, ~ovrv-r~ ~ ,~~`` ~~~iiin t ~ s n ~~'~~~~