Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAbout96Mar18 Golf Course Committee MinsGOLF CO 1RSE CONSTRUCTI N COMMITTEE MAR H 18 1996 The meeting was called to order by Chairman Walt Morrow at 4:00 P. M.: MEMBERS PRESENT: Patsy Fedrizzi, Grant Kingsford, Wally Lovan, John Ewing, Bert Myers: Morrow: The first item on the agenda will be Patsy for the financial report and the results of our first ad. Fedrizzi: Okay, this is not going to according to what I thought last time to be a regular meeting so I did not put together a financial report but I am glad that you asked me because I would like to tell you what happened today. As far as the ad in the Statesman I thought it looked pretty great, any input? Morrow: Grant? Kingsford: I thought it looked good. Fedrizzi: The placement is great, its the best place that you could get. I asked for that, didn't expect it but I was really happy it didn't get in the fold or something and lost. However, today I have not received any calls whatsoever on that ad which was $339 except for Idaho Press Tribune asking if we could place that ad with them as well. I talked to Walt about that and he said maybe that might be something we consider down the road maybe our next (inaudible) but the gal did not leave any information here at City Hall (inaudible) we will talk about that later. What we did today, my daughter and I just made phone calls upon phone calls quit at 2:30 and Spur Wing has taken a bunch of interest from us. It is a matter of they were kind of thinking along those lines but it was (inaudible) I have heard that many times. Spur Wing I believe is now at $9800 to join, $150 a month, so it is a different ball game but still if you only have X amount of dollars you have those choices to make. So Spur Wing has had some effect I think. Lovan: Excuse me Patsy, you also have monthly fees (inaudible). Fedrizzi: It is a whole different, it is apples and oranges, however it has affected us maybe. I guess that is what they are saying (inaudible) Holly Haufberg who had already done so (inaudible) so it might affect some of your play but still not massively because (inaudible) Kingsford: My guess is that affects some of the private courses more than the public courses (inaudible) Fedrizzi: I am glad we are phoning because some said they didn't see the add at all. What is it and what are you doing and so forth. We are not going to get the masses but we might get a few. So our phoning (inaudible) we are thinking about it. (Inaudible) so we are Golf Course Construction Committee March 18, 1996 Page 2 following up on that. So there will be some forthcoming (inaudible) based on just what we did today a lot. Mon-ow: Let's go ahead and discuss (inaudible) what are your thoughts in terms of running it in the Nampa Free Press. The other question is how many more times do we run it and don't have any results. At what point do we have, do we put, if we are not going to generate calls (inaudible) we need to put it to rest and go on with (inaudible) make that decision. I guess I am a little surprised that it didn't generate any calls whatsoever.. I was in hopes that we would generate something particularly given the little break in the weather and so forth. Having said that your thoughts Grant? Kingsford: Well I think two things on opposite sides of the fence. First off if we do get some success out of the Statesman depending on the price might warrant the Nampa paper (inaudible) through the Nampa- paper, I take it and (inaudible) I see that carrier drop (inaudible) over there so it does have some coverage (inaudible) hoe many of those people would be interested. Fedrizzi: Their coverage is $19,000 something which is what we are getting (inaudible) Kingsford: But that is Nampa Caldwell so, in Nampa Caldwell we are not going to get any support, it would be little (inaudible) but I wouldn't say that we want to do that and I would like to leave that up to Walt's discretion after we find out what kind of an input that we get out of this ad. If we don't generate money out of Boise out of the Statesman ad I don't think it is going to get that much more. 1 think it is going to be a direct call sort of thing. Fedrizzi: What we have is the only other ad and it is pre-paid is through the Chamber of Commerce flyer and everybody of course that we have been calling because we see that when they got that original one. But a lot of those tossed those aside because (inaudible) it was just saying we are still here. That was (inaudible) repeatedly (inaudible) Morrow: That is coming from the Chamber members or the ad? Fedrizzi: (Inaudible) Morrow: (Inaudible) that we weren't even going to expand the golf course. Fedrizzi: Right, that they hadn't heard anything more about it and (inaudible) which I was thrilled to say (inaudible). Morrow: Your thoughts Wally? Golf Course Construction Committee March 18, 1996 Page 3 Lovan: (Inaudible) then it does not do very much good advertising. I have found over the years that advertising for golf courses is almost a wasted cause. John (inaudible) won't come to my place just because he sees an add in the paper. (Inaudible) Warm Springs won't come to my place because (inaudible). Fedrizzi: And that is what our (inaudible) can you help us, this is what we are trying to do, we are trying to raise funds, we have a deadline can you help us. Ewing: I think my feelings are the same as Grant's I would like to see if anything is generated in the real near future from the Statesman. If we don't get anything I don't think we should waste our time or money to go (inaudible). Morrow: Let me ask you guys this do you want, what I talked to Patsy earlier in the day was about depending on how the Committee feels that if we ran the Statesman ad and committed the $350 to this week and still generated no calls it would seem to me like maybe the indicators (inaudible) go with the phone thing which we are doing anyway, we go with that and no more adds. $350 a week is quite a pop. If we are under the (inaudible) and haven't got our first call is that indicative that we ought to do it one more time after that and be under $1050 or do we (inaudible) I guess is my question. Where is our call point, what are your feelings? Fedrizzi: Maybe we ought to do this one more time because my next ads are going to be X amount of days left (inaudible) so maybe we could try it again and make that judgement call after we continue our policy (inaudible). Morrow: Does the point that she makes (inaudible) does that justify running two more ads instead of one more ad? Kingsford: I don't know I guess I would like to see at least the ad (inaudible) before we go further if we cover cost and if we can think about another week. I don't know, we are on a tight enough budget if we don't make and there are two sides to that story too. Fedrizzi: Well it pays to advertise we all know that so we have to get it out there. But really there is that feeling (inaudible) more. Negative (inaudible) so (inaudible) everybody wants to go with a winner. Lovan: I was approached by the counselor today, Wayne (inaudible) \ Fedrizzi: Yes we talked to him this morning, he did show some interest for he and Connie to each have (inaudible). Golf Course Construction Committee March 18, 1996 Page 4 Kingsford: I don't know, my bet is that (inaudible) I don't think he feels like he is going to play very much. Fedrizzi: (Inaudible) was that and maybe Connie and I should both do this (inaudible) comes down to a matter of budget (inaudible). A lot to time (inaudible) he was one of the ones that seemed very interested. Ewing: I think almost my opinion is that instead of even running (inaudible) whatever dollars I just keep coming back thinking that we need to do something spend. the money to get the Chamber and I don't have the answer to that but it seems to me like Patsy is just fighting an uphill battle here as far as getting the City behind. The City is the Chamber I have always been led to believe. Is there something that we could do and spend the $300 to put on something to get the business people, I thinking we are hitting it is obvious unless something really turns around on the Statesman I don't even know if we are going to make up the $300 that we have to spend right now. Again, I certainly don't' want to down play the $25, $50 that you get in but right now we need businesses, we need somebody to pop in here with maybe it is too much (inaudible) the $500 and the $1000 and $1500 that businesses are going to (inaudible) businesses I think are the Chamber aren't they. If we can change that mood around here and I don't have the answer but I am thinking (inaudible) behind us and we just haven't got that answer. Fedrizzi: The attitude has not been (inaudible) Kingsford: Well it became kind of a political thing and I don't know whether we have overcome the political issue that was, it was an election year, had it not been an election year if we had gotten the land together and done this a year ago I don't think problems would have been there that have come out now. I don't know if you win that Chamber. Today for example the front page of that Western Ada thing was little kids don't have enough fields to play on and the police activities league and all of that kind of stuff I don't know if that plays on the businesses more than what golf will. Fedrizzi: Well exactly put that in line with the privately run thing than it is not, nothing against Wally for sure but (inaudible). Ewing: Well with a set budget then if we feel like we are not going to win the Chamber over for whatever reason and we do have a tight budget why are we throwing another $300 some dollars to the Statesman if the first ad doesn't generate anything. Maybe we go (inaudible) Kingsford: What is the cut off (inaudible) Golf Course Construction Committee March 18, 1996 Page 5 Fedrizzi: To get an add in next week, if it is the same ad we (inaudible) I think we need to do something tq make it (inaudible) if t called them today and said run it next week they can do that (inaudible) run the gamut so it takes about 4 or 5 days to put that together. Kingsford: My feeling is we are not (inaudible) I would hate to see us throw more money (inaudible) Fedrizzi: I have not placed anything, just the one and we are not on a contract basis (inaudible) so many Morrow: Let me suggest this to you in terms of (inaudible) Grant is talking about, the thing that is interesting from the political standpoint, a couple of things. One is Bob Corrie had it (inaudible) shouting match (inaudible) so having said that (inaudible) we are not going to get anything in terms of executive help from within the City. The second thing that is interesting is that by default to those folk who (inaudible) by virtue of what has come out recently with respect to the Nampa (inaudible) Warm Springs (inaudible) every position that we in the administration took as this thing began to unfold (inaudible) supported by the facts as they were coming out. To the extent that Warm Springs here you had (inaudible) the truth of the matter now is that the (inaudible) with respect to the 27 holes of Nampa is maintained (inaudible) maybe there will be .(inaudible). Those rumors (inaudible) and it seems to me that is coming along to support the positions that were taken this time last year by the people involved in this deal. But having said that between the ad and that coming and with Patsy telling us that there is a lack of interest I am not sure (inaudible) overcome anything (inaudible). Maybe the thing is we (inaudible) and we get on down the road. Fedrizzi: I would rather see instead of an ad and I have tried to get them to come and interview anybody you, Grant anybody this last year, the newspapers will not come out and interview us and have our side of story, not political but here is what is happening (inaudible) which to me is news. They won't do that (inaudible) Kingsford: (Inaudible) and make it a controversy and (inaudible) Fedriai: Did anybody ever call you, they all said thanks a lot and (inaudible) take pictures. Lovan: (Inaudible) Morrow: (Inaudible) I guess one of the frustrations in the last year for me has been that there is little or no interest in the press in terms of responsible reporting or objective or good news. Even I could tolerate news based on the 5 W's as long as it was objectively and fairly done and that doesn't seem to be happening either. So I am not sure that an interview doesn't get reduced to a shoving match on whq has what opinion. If it is not Golf Course Construction Committee March 18, 1996 Page 6 controversial or we can't make it controversial it will go no place. Fedrizzi: Well if they were to build a new kids playground they would probably come over and say here is this playground (inaudible) of some interest that something exciting is happening and being built that is what I had in mind. I think that based on who I know of some calls that I feel that (inaudible) and that is getting (inaudible). That is a guesstimation. Kingsford: (Inaudible) do you think Patsy that running another ad will impact that? Fedrizzi: The only thing another ad would possibly do is tell people that we are still alive. They won't write an article and I don't know Kingsford: (Inaudible) I would suspect that advertising in the yellow pages is a good thing it doesn't help up (inaudible) looks for a place to play and (inaudible) good advertising in golf journals (Inaudible) Idaho Golf Association thing. Those are valid but those doesn't help us a whole lot in here. I think I would just assume seeing a direct mailing (inaudible) Fedrizzi: That is very expensive too, so then it is like, I don't, these calls as follows ups are, to give you something, even if they all say no we know where we stand we know why, what your input is and what we can do (inaudible). We are getting a real (inaudible) Kingsford: I wonder and (inaudible) look at some sort of (inaudible) golf tournament, I don't know. It just seems like given the critical (inaudible) I hope that we can raise what (inaudible) and like I say I think that is what we are going to have to (inaudible) Fedrizzi: I think as far as (inaudible) because of the negative (inaudible) negative toward our cause. Kingsford: Well the president right now is positive but we do have (inaudible) the leadership now is a lot better than it was. But in terms of the golf course (inaudible) but John and John Fitzgerald both are positives I think. Fedrizzi: We have talked to these people (inaudible) Will may but John Fitzgerald no. (Inaudible) that is going a step too far I think. Kingsford: (Inaudible) what do you think Wally? Lovan: From my own observations over the many years (inaudible) I found this has been a very (inaudible) people getting behind the project. This was (inaudible) also Walt these (inaudible) with their own plans from the ground up. It was part of their (inaudible) Golf Course Construction Committee March 18, 1996 Page 7 Morrow: I think we all, the perception was that (inaudible) Lovan: And Nampa did not find anybody (inaudible) Morrow: And that bears out (inaudible) I think it is interesting is that we made the comments (inaudible) and it still buys us nothing. I guess (inaudible) maybe we are not likely to get anything and we do what we can and press on. Lovan: What the National Golf Foundation told Boise City their parks commission (inaudible) is (inaudible) Kingsford: Did anybody every see or checkout what in fact did Nampa get for 15% last year did it turn in to being that $130,000? It is my understanding it wasn't going to make it (inaudible) Morrow: In terms of the Statesman ad let's get a vote here, do you want to do another one? Kingsford: I would only endorse another one if we pay for this one. Fedrizzi: If we are only going to do one more my vote would be to wait until May 1st and do one with 30 days left. If we are going to do two then we ought to do only 60 days, only 30 days and then we are talking (inaudible) (Discussion Inaudible) Morrow: (Inaudible) if we don't by our next meeting then we will (inaudible] your thought Wally? Lovan: Well I am not sure that it would do any good (inaudible) golf tournament (inaudible) how they would support it. Kingsford: If we could make up on volume what we are missing (inaudible) Fedrizzi: How much (inaudible) Ewing: My thoughts are no, I think we are throwing money away that we don't have to throw away. I am definitely in favor of using the same money for something else. And maybe the golf tournament would maybe help sway the City of Meridian (inaudible) get them out there. Golf Course Construction Committee March 18, 1996 Page 8 Fedrizzi: I think that is (inaudible) Ewing: It really shocks me. Morrow: Maybe what we want to go with at this point in time (inaudible) generates enough money to pay for the one we have got plus the next one. In the mean time let's pursue the idea of the golf tournament (inaudible) whatever it is we can raise and see (inaudible) Fedrizzi: What we cars do is Wally is giving that $500 bag and stuff we can (inaudible) however that is going to be a little after the fact (inaudible) everybody that is in (inaudible). So maybe that is not a good idea (inaudible). Ewing: Excuse me Patsy but what kind of money does a golf tournament generate? Kingsford: It really ranges, it depends on how that little deal with the Boy Scouts fund last year was $75 a pop and it was a scramble and so forth and they generated right at $7000. The education foundation put on one out at Eagle Hills last September and we screwed up and really robbed the Optimist Club, it wasn't supposed to be on that date and without me they changed it, it generated $10,000. It was, (inaudible) and the players that were involved were on that board, some of them fairly substantial. I think that you can (inaudible) Wally and that was a poor man's golf tournament, a guy could come and play in that for virtually what he plays for green fees. We have gotten donations to cover the hole sponsorships for virtually what we have used in terms of (inaudible) and those, what $100 a hole (inaudible) $100 a hole and 18 holes we have been right in probably $2500. Lovan: (Inaudible) Fedrizzi: And you say the money has been going to something like, I have already contacted all those names and we know what we have in the bank (inaudible) for the same cause will they come out and give like $100 Kingsford: I think that they would (inaudible) sponsorship for one time (inaudible) Fedrizzi: (Inaudible) they have very stringent (inaudible) children and their animals for the fair. Kingsford: They can always (inaudible) US Bank is thrown into that deal every year and that has been their tournament and just one year it has been (inaudible) that Wally sponsored holes, each of the banks have. When it comes down to you know it is just like John said we have the same players for everything in this town and they don't (inaudible) not all that much money to be tapped here. Golf Course Construction Committee March 18, 1996 Page 9 Ewing: And I certainly don't want to be negative but you have got the scramble for a (inaudible) that if you are a golfer you can't go golfing at Cherry (inaudible) and Kingsford: You are sure right, I am booked up for about 20 already. Ewing: (Inaudible) and you don't even need to know how to golf. Again I am not trying to discourage that but I guess I am trying to think of we really are in a position that (inaudible) bank for our buck here because we don't have the big bucks to throw out. Morrow: (Inaudible) a budget of $5000 how much of that $5000 does it cost us to put it on. Kingsford: Well you are looking at things like typically you want to provide a meal and typically there is a cost there. Whatever Wally fixes and so forth (inaudible) whatever he wants to charge us for greens and (inaudible) on that. I would say this let's put that on the back burner if we can see where we are going to be $5000 or $10000 short at the end let's (inaudible). Morrow: Do you want to for our sake then now (inaudible) spending what it is we have got and build what we can and then whatever we (inaudible) Patsy's fundraising go with that also maybe look at it (inaudible) in April (inaudible) where that is going to help and leave it at that and use the tournament concept as kind of a kicker in the end (inaudible) Fedrizzi: I think that would be a good idea and (inaudible) generate that many more dollars and it would make sense (inaudible). Morrow: Maybe the other thing that helps at that point in time too is that a long ways down the road for us is getting construction done and (inaudible) Alright so that is what we will do. Fedrizzi: So no ads for Morrow: No ads for a couple weeks. Ewing: I like your approach though (inaudible) person to person deal, if that doesn't work then (inaudible) Fedrizzi: Well I bet they have already heard about it (inaudible) a little knowledge but they threw it in the trash (inaudible) Ewing: How are you picking the names to call? Golf Course Construction Committee March 18, 1996 Page 10 Fedrizzi: I am just going through the book and calling people, I am pretty familiar with the chamber people. Ewing: So you are getting the business people. Fedrizzi: We did some very randomly at first just to get a feel for like the Holly Haufberg and Mark Freeman end Johnson and some of those. When I was calling on the phone we did get 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 return calls that have been coming so I called Tammy and she was going to try and call all of those now. Our problem is on my phone at home I don't have a place (inaudible) so we talked about coming in here and getting a place here at City Hall (inaudible). So we are putting the calls out to call City Hall and we call every half hour and check and bug the poor girls to death. Morrow: Let's move on to, is everybody satisfied with what our position is with respect to that? Let's move on to, we have the seed issued covered (inaudible). Specs, those never were in my box, does everyone have copies? Kingsford: They mailed me one out finally just, I want to say maybe last Thursday, Wednesday or Thursday. Fedrizzi: You didn't get one? Morrow: No it never got into my box. Ewing: I got it in I was a little late getting it in finally I just decided to make a real rough draft something to start with (inaudible). I did not get that (inaudible) I apologize for it. I kind of decided it was more important to get it out even if it was late to everyone instead of just waiting for the day to just throw it out (inaudible) really this is just a, as you can see I even scribbled a few things that t after it was typed up that I thought was wrong. A lot of this stuff out here, I don't even know that we need to have it but we had, it was more of away of compiling some notes of some questions and if we don't want it we (inaudible) this was certainly nothing personal if you want to throw it away and start over that is fine with me too. Kingsford: John one thing that came to my mind on page three and Wally mentioned this to me and I looked at it (inaudible) we probably need to stipulate on the seed that we provide it because we do in fact have purchased that and (inaudible). Ewing: I thought of that also (inaudible) Again this was something that I started to (inaudible) I did that in front of both Bob Woodward and Ted Bird in my office. I asked them to kind of help me with some of the wordage and Linda typed it up and basically I Golf Course Construction Committee March 18, 1996 Page 11 read it and said hey this is close enough for a starting point. She has left this on her computer where she can slide out and slide in and do whatever she needs to do with it. It definitely, the seed, I am not even sure that there, when I got into all of this insurance it was (inaudible) advertisement to bid and again just a start. I don't even know if we need (inaudible) Kingsford: Well as bad as I hate to admit it to you John I think you are right on target with all of that stuff because it has to be a City project and we (inaudible) I think those things are going to have to be (inaudible). Ewing: I think that sortleone is going to have to see if these limits are even the right limits, these are just limits that I, I don't even know where I came up with these limits (inaudible) those are pretty normal right now (inaudible) what we are seeing more often, maybe the City has more or less (inaudible) definitely changed if it is more or less because it will make a difference either way. Kingsford: Probably if we could get those highlighted and (inaudible) he could tell pretty rapidly what those need to be more or less. Lovan: (Inaudible) Ewing: Again Wally, I don't know either, again, I guess that when I really tried to put my thoughts together I guess if I have had some thoughts, someone shared to me what they really wanted I have missed it. So we can change this to anything, the one thing that I did put in there (inaudible) Wally look at it and I thought that would cover it right there. I don't think I said coffee can (inaudible) 31bs or 51bs or something. I guess what I was trying to do there was say let's get it, get your sand pre-approved if the Committee thinks the sand is acceptable then it will be acceptable don't come in with a bunch of garbage after the fact and trick us. Lovan: (Inaudible) clean though. Kingsford: Clean sand. Lovan: Otherwise it pretty much covers (inaudible) did I miss a rock (inaudible) Ewing: I think that on page 2, (inaudible) I know one question that was brought up and I went ahead and used the term vita bark in there. We talked about is there even such a thing anymore, vita bark is that going to be (inaudible). Lovan: Du-Rite (inaudible) crushed small particle bark (inaudible). Golf Course Construction Committee March 18, 1996 Page 12 Ewing: One of the things I put in the general conditions was that we were going to have a pre-bid meeting and that it was mandatory to come to it. I kind of felt like if we had (inaudible) a lot of questions in or maybe I put that in the advertisement for bid is that if we have a lot of questions or (inaudible) sometimes the best critics you have are the contractors trying to put this (inaudible) when in fact it helps you plug the holes. Morrow: (Inaudible) Ewing: That is what I think they use it for they don't' want to say they need help to clean up their specs, but it really helps. Lovan: One of the things in here John that I might mention on the completion of the installation of the greens themselves up to the seeding or including the seeding somebody has to maintain to make sure (inaudible) is that going to be up to this contractor? If it is that is going to be a rather expensive operation. Ewing: I don't know, those are things we need to (inaudible) I guess I am thinking well I don't know (inaudible) Lovan: (Inaudible) Ewing: (Inaudible) they got it up to some height, what did I tell them, I can't even remember what I made up here. I said something here that it would be mowed when the grass is 1 /2 inch to 3/4 inch and mower height is to be 1/2 inch well that didn't make a whole lot of sense to mow it 1/2 inch but what I think I was trying to say there was is that they maintain it up to the first mowing and then it is ours. That is on that last page. Morrow: Let me ask you this in terms of the sprinkling {inaudible) where does the green construction fit into the seeding of the fairways are we not going to be sprinkling everything once the greens are done anyway. Or do they fall (inaudible) finish the fairway you reseed you seed around the fairway and then you go sprinkle everything at one time. Does that happen (inaudible) Lovan: I would say off hand Walt that once they get started they get four or five fairways ahead then you can start this (inaudible). The greens themselves will be on a separate program. (Inaudible) Morrow: Separate sprinkling program? Kingsford: (Inaudible) the whole sprinkler system will be up before we start seeding anything hopefully. So realistically we can bring on as much fairway and green at that Golf Course Construction Committee March 18, ,1996 Page 13 point as they can build. Morrow: I guess my question would be (inaudible) time of construction (inaudible) watering it as opposed to us watering it. Kingsford: Well certainly in the specs for seeding we are going to have to make sure it calls (inaudible) until we have sprinkler (inaudible) Lovan: I have the specs here that say that the berms around the green this is where the sprinklers (inaudible) should be seeded at the same time (inaudible) to that. Ewing: The way I saw this and I am trying to (inaudible) was basically what I think is going to happen is the fain~vays need to be to a stage of a fine grade and (inaudible) the same the sprinkler systems need to start down the fairways that is when I picture the greens being carved in and the hills the bumps the moguls around it whatever you call it actually starts happening. That shape has to be pretty well there by the time the (End of Tape) everything is basically ready for planting basically (inaudible) the greens maybe at that time the sprinklers are in fact (inaudible) fairground to make sure we have got coverage and everything at that time whoever is planting the fairway whoever is planting the greens whoever is the superintendent out there is to coordinate that very close and it is planted those sprinklers Come on. This is where the timing comes in, maybe the fairways need more water than greens or vice versa but if everything has to be planted at once where we have no lapse we (inaudible) getting the greens way too wet before they are planted qr we can't plant the greens and expect them to get up there and get (inaudible) I think that is a pretty close coordination thing that is certainly not impossible but I think once that whole in from the tee box off the green and the other end (inaudible) same time. That is the way I see this. Lovan: If we can get the (inaudible) sprinkler system has to (inaudible) Ewing: No I think the greens can all be carved out and made they just can't be planted until everything plane graded and the close coordination to me (inaudible). Lovan: (Inaudible) wait until another two months (inaudible) fairways. Ewing: Okay, (inaudible) I thought that what could possibly happen is that we could never get in and work that fairway and hope the fairway grass around (inaudible) constantly watering (inaudible) Lovan: (Inaudible) Golf Course Construction Committee March 18, 1996 Page 14 Ewing: So do we want to put this green in here and then we have all these berms that go around like this. Are we telling, do we want in this spec do we want them to plant the green plus some distance out around I don't know 20 feet. Lovan: (Inaudible) sprinkler head here, one here, down here and one here. When these come on you are going to have a bout a 40 foot circle around. so we are going to have about 40 feet from this point out that will get water. This is the berm that you are talking about will get seeded (inaudible). Ewing: 1 can't say about though, I have to tell them and then Kingsford: So they need to plant, let's say they need to plant 40 feet from the edge of the green, berm and 40 feet out from it (inaudible). Lovan: What I am saying about some of these sprinkler heads are hitting 37 feet out some of them are 40 depending on which type of sprinkler head we have. Kingsford: You are comfortable with 40, I think we seed out that 40. Lovan: Then these sprinkler heads (inaudible) can come on all at the same time. Ewing: This is the way and I am certainly not a very good (inaudible) but we are going to do something like this and my concem is that these sprinkler heads are situated with really only one thing in my mind is to get the berms, get good coverage out over the berms and definitely get the green. So, how do we, if we start this system and once we start this system and once we plant we never can let that dry out. So how do we came in and ever get that planted now in our lapped places, how do we ever work this area, how do we ever get it (inaudible) that are going to do this lap and I am assuming that you always lap these sprinklers into something like this. That was my only thought of why it has to pop all at once. Because once we saturate that ground and it seems like my experience around well sod or new grass seed is once you put the water to it you have got to keep it almost muddy. So that was my concern about that. Maybe, I am not saying that for said arguing but I am just saying I need help on how to tell them what to do and at the same time not have (inaudible) problem when the fairway people come in. I think maybe possibly the way we are going the way we are headed I think that there is very good possibility that we are. going to have different people doing the fairway maybe even a farmer than we have with more of a specialty contractor on these greens. Kingsford: That is a-real possibility. Ewing: I think so too. I am thinking it is going to be an issue myself that maybe these Golf Course Construction Committee March 18, 1996 Page 15 greens are going to cost more money than we want to spend but it is (inaudible) going to have to get as reasonable as we can which would (inaudible) maybe it isn't (inaudible) which I think they can do that. I don't think that is a bad scenario. I just think that if we have tied the two contracts together that we are going to pay too much out here for this special contractor (inaudible). Morrow: It seems to me the answer to that question is that once that stuff is sprinkled you have that in and then you have the fine grade on the fairway really all we are talking about is (inaudible) in and it is done you turn the sprinkler system on and grass appears. So that contract would be substantially less than the green. I guess my concern there is that once you commit to the green you start sprinkling. You are going to have some areas in the overlap where you (inaudible) because no matter what size of the tractor (inaudible). Ewing: Walt I agree with you the only thing I am thinking is that I don't see this (inaudible) Kingsford: (Inaudible) Ewing: To me it is a matter of coordination, by the time you get water up here and you test spray this sprinkler system however many times it takes for you to be satisfied that you have good coverage then it is a matter of a day of coming back in here and fine grading and that is all you are really doing. In fact the sprinkler system guy should really leave it fine graded that should have been in their contract, you give it to them fine graded they leave it fine graded I feel that is the way that should be (inaudible) test fire this until they have it plain graded anyway. So I am not sure, granted I think this can be seeded maybe in a two hour period and than this might be a day period but I don't know that this couldn't have the day and next day for two hours and then irrigate the whole thing anyway. And then you have no problem, but maybe I am wrong in my thinking. Lovan: I don't think that the only reason (inaudible) seeding around the berms. If you did not seed and water the berms (inaudible) trying to do the whole thing there at once. That is probably when (inaudible) Ewing: You are not going to (inaudible) sprinkler system are you? Lovan: They (inaudible) Kingsford: Still John's scenario I think, you are (inaudible) all that finished grade around the berms that all has to be done. You might go in and you might do some different things to the (inaudible) after that and that is not going to affect anything. But you have to do that and I think still (inaudible) say seed 40 feet from the edge of green (inaudible) and I think you are right we will end up doing a farmer or someone like that that seeds fairways that Golf Course Construction Committee March 18, 1996 Page 16 goes on around that green. Morrow: Let me ask you this in terms of (inaudible) this one project that I was doing as one of my projects the way I proceed on this is I would start the greens maybe a couple days ahead of fairways and I would have the fairways all fine graded, I have the greens rough graded, I would send the guys in to construct the green stuff to and including the (inaudible) two or three day head start on fairway (inaudible) and then the sprinkler thing is that the guys (inaudible) fine grade when they are done with the sprinkler and turn the sprinkler system on the entire (inaudible) at the same time. I guess I am having difficulty understanding why you would have to, are you talking about (inaudible) does it get double sprinkle on the back side of the mounds and erodes away? Lovan: In others words they are trying to keep the erosion off of there if you don't do the mounds at the same time you do the greens themselves. Ewing: I am not suggesting that, I am suggesting (inaudible) Kingsford: You are going to have some of that anyway but what you have is more than 5% max in places (inaudible) Ewirtg: What I am suggesting is that it is coordinated and basically when that sprinkler system comes on when that green is done the fairway had better be done too. When you turn on the water don't worry about this lapping and this stuff turning on hole number 10 and (inaudible) granted I did not realize that the greens took way longer than the fairways but why would you want to lag back anyway. Why are we going to build the greens and only do one thing at a time? Kingsford: The only thing would be John if we get up against it where we don't get seeded this spring on the fairways and can still be nice (inaudible) and have a summers growth on those then there is a really possibility still that we play a year from this June let's say the whole course versus if we don't plant the greens this Fall there will be no golfing until a year from this Fall at the very best. Ewing: Well I understand that and I (inaudible) if we don't have those fairways ready to plant until Fall that means we don't have the water and if don't have the weather we can't plant the greens anyway. I think the only hang up that we have got of planting this Spring that I can see right now is the irrigation system. The dirt work the fine grade all of that you (inaudible) couple of weeks, if we just started then and we are getting close again I know that tomorrow we could have a change but that dirt is getting real close to being able to start working on this rough stuff. I guess I feel like that is a good point you made and in my eyes t am saying that (inaudible) if we don't have water we are not going to have, we are Golf Course Construction Committee March 18, 1996 Page 17 not going to plant greens and if we got water there is not reason why those greens can't be planted because it is just a matter of fine grading and keeping that. In my opinion if you can't (inaudible) something is wrong with the dirt guys. Again I have never built a golf course and I am looking at it in some kind of thing that I call common sense (inaudible) Kingsford: (Inaudible) we have the crossings we have got to get a bridge and we have got to get the license agreement. I talked twice with Gary and he is going to speed up (inaudible) we have got to have our sprinkler lines if it is just that we have a static pipe under those things before the 15th we have got to do that. We have got to get the bridges at least a bridge (inaudible) before the 8th or 10th or whatever it is. The other thing that he mentioned to me is we have got a bit of a problem (inaudible) and I don't know what is out there Wally (inaudible) what is the guys name (inaudible)15 acres (inaudible) he takes out of the Eight Mile Lateral just after it turns back to the north over there somewhere. The same ditch that apparently Jim took out of to water that side. He is saying that he needs to be able to get his water so we have to do something about that as well. Lovan: (Inaudible} Kingsford: He was telling me that was (inaudible)1 am talking about Gary. So we have got to get him (inaudible) Morrow: Didn't Gary also indicate that this guy was willing to take his water out of a different place? Kingsford: Yes and Gary did an initial discussion and (inaudible) but their secretary says that typically they won't allow transfer of water for less than 40 acres but I am hoping that isn't necessarily true (inaudible) benefit us. The other thing we are going to have to do too is we are going to have to transfer and take that water (inaudible) out of the (inaudible) apparently now that is what we want to do is take all of our water into that. (Inaudible) Morrow: That water is already in the ditch (inaudible) so it shouldn't be a problem. Kingsford: It should just be a matter (inaudible) ditch rider can handle that Morrow: (Inaudible) if you wanted to transfer (inaudible) as long as the water is already in the lateral it is not a major issue. But if they have to add more water to the lateral then that (inaudible) very so I am asking here is if the water is (inaudible) down stream take out (inaudible) then that (inaudible) with those folks it is hard to say. Lovan: (Inaudible) Golf Course Construction Committee March 18, 1996 Page 18 Kingsford: The same water has had, they just go right on by (inaudible) Lovan: Who is this person that (inaudible)? Kingsford: I am trying to remember his name I don't (inaudible) I want to say it is something like Stevenson I think he has 15 acres either 5 or 15. Gary Smith has that (inaudible) Morrow: Okay, so you are in control of that. So to get back to where we were at with the spec was it seems to me the answer to some of this is contingent upon our sprinkling (inaudible). We are still trying to generate and develop and entire budget (inaudible} for the bids on the green and on the fairways (inaudible) So for our purposes on the spec is that I guess at this point let's put out the specs John and (inaudible) that we have the sprinkler system in (inaudible) fairway and the greens at the same time. Ewing: I don't even think that is an assumption, it has to be. I don't see any way unless I am looking at this wrong that they are going to run out and sprinkle the greens. We want them to start from point A and end up about (inaudible} Morrow: I understand, what we were talking about earlier with these specs is do you build the greens independently and start sprinkling them and come back later and build the fairways. Ewing: I think the specs could be taken either way, I think that we have said that after they are inspected and approved that you put the seeds on and you can't do it until the irrigation is done. Morrow: Okay fine so we are covered. Ewing: We are covered there and nobody is going to plant until (inaudible) I am not sure as a committee that we don't' need to sit down and really make a list. When I started on this I got to thinking about it we have got some real issues and Grant has hit some of them with Nampa Meridian. I think it was brought up briefly last time but then I didn't really know where it went. We have bridges that are important, another important thing that is going to be a big factor I think is we haven't really determined what our (inaudible) and how long it is going to take Idaho Power to get it. I know that the little experience I have had with pumping stations and with Idaho Power is that is a real iffy thing. I don't know where we are really at with our pumps. Lovan: (Inaudible) Ewing: I know where it is going to be at I am just saying on the equipment and getting the Golf Course Construction Committee March 18, 1996 Page 19 equipment in and getting the needed power over there, those sometimes can be long lead items. Some things that on a project like this should be maybe on the top of the list where we can have it at the end of the list type thing. I don't know if that is going to be the case on this but that is a concern. Lovan: Then all we have to do is (inaudible) so you are talking (inaudible) we as a City Kingsford: So they have adequate power we just have to move, have an electrician take that power to another (inaudible) so we don't have to (inaudible) we would be talking about two months. Lovan: We do need (inaudible) to receive water from the lake. We need to get a screen to put in. Morrow: When do those things need to be built, those (inaudible) Lovan: They can be built (inaudible) somebody is going to have to (inaudible) Morrow: Is somebody going to put a wet suit on? Lovan: We put on, some people put on a wet suit and goes out and works on our sprinkler system and goes out into the lake (inaudible) this one here will also have to have (inaudible) for our existing parking station for (inaudible) $1200 for water (inaudible). Ewing: That is something though if we are going to put out a new pump house (inaudible) Morrow: (Inaudible) increase the box (inaudible) Lovan: It is a concrete box we will also have to add onto the existing pump house a little bit. (Inaudible) Morrow: The question you had me ask Harold Hudson was. (inaudible) and he said yes (inaudible) the pump motors. Lovan: Power wise (inaudible) Kingsford: So physically are we going to have to have a different place for the other motors? Lovan: (Inaudible) Golf Course Construction Committee March 18, 1996 Page 20 Ewing: So it take a new pump house. Lovan: No it takes a small addition onto the one (inaudible) same place for you,to add onto. Ewing: (Inaudible) Lovan: It is just bringing it out having a place to set your pumps and (inaudible) the intake comes from out in the pond into the box and then Ewing: So is the box got, hold the water? Lovan: The box holds water, pump from there into your system. Ewing: So is the pipe that runs from the bottom of the lake, more or less a gravity bed in (inaudible) I would think that it would definitely be important. to do that before you get into irrigation (inaudible) Lovan: We already have water in the pond, we will be irrigating out of the pond (inaudible) Morrow: Is there water in that year round? Kingsford: Yes, we have a well (inaudible). Lovan: (Inaudible) Morrow: (Inaudible) Lovan: Come over John and take a look at it. Kingsford: What kind of cement work do we have to do, just to place the motors and we have to add onto the building? Lovan: We have to add onto the building some (inaudible) with motors for putting out (inaudible) Ewing: That is not coming from the sprinkler people. Lovan: No, (inaudible) motor system (inaudible). Ewing: That is something that we haven't really talked about and the sprinkler system is Golf Course Construction Committee March 18, 1996 Page 21 no good without the pump system. Morrow: Let me ask you this Wally, can you write the specs for the pump house (inaudible) so that you can get those. Probably you are talking about two different sub-contractors here, you are talking about an electrical subcontractor and you are talking about a pump house addition to (inaudible). Lovan: (Inaudible) Kingsford: We are looking at stuff there that if there we can put on a spec we can make calls are we talking about (inaudible) and we are not talking about (inaudible). So get together some specs and we can get some (inaudible). Morrow: If you are talking about a small drop inlet box it i$ a combination (inaudible) Ewing: How deep? Lovan: You are talking about (inaudible) we need cinder block Ewing: Well its the volume, it is all going to be calculated to the volume. You talk about (inaudible) why don't you put four fee concrete manholes down in there. You know that when you have to go down S feet you have to (inaudible) I say that almost like why don't you do that but if you can put pumps in there that are going to draw I am just making this up 500 gallons a minute and you can only hold 450 in that and it has to come through that (inaudible) a lot of time you can pump a gravity (inaudible) because you don't have enough storage there. Lovan: (Inaudible) true what you are saying (inaudible). Ewing: Those are to me (inaudible) when I really started on this stuff this is important, these aren't show stoppers we need water. We need to get across ditches, we need to, 1 didn't realize we weren't going to deal with Idaho Power and that is a positive thing, a negative thing through that do we have enough power in our starters, in our switch gear and stuff or is a major thing that we have a the power and we don't' have the right (inaudible). Lovan: (Inaudible) Ewing: And another thing, if you start adding new pumps new starters that makes (inaudible) you have the power (inaudible) so it is a big plus to have the power but that doesn't solve problems. Golf Course Construction Committee March 18, 1996 Page 22 Lovan: I assume that Harold knew what he was talking about when he (inaudible) Morrow: Could you maybe get then with Harold and write the specs. This might be one of those deals that Harold can maybe give us some help in terms of (inaudible) some sort of (inaudible) Lovan: (Inaudible) Morrow: Where we are at with this (inaudible) having Wally to get Harold to write the specs for this pump thing and pump house, we need to get (inaudible) drop inlet box or reservoir. Then maybe we can get Harold to actually do the electrical stuff as some sort of donation to us. Another thing is #hat once we get the specs for the reservoir in terms (Inaudible) maybe we can (inaudible) that is one way (inaudible) that aren't interested in golfing but would maybe consider doing some sort of donation or maybe (inaudible). Lovan: Donate their labor Morrow: (Inaudible) or whatever there are several ways to go here. The issue is that we need (inaudible) so if you can give us the specs for that pump station and get those written up (inaudible) recruit the labor (inaudible) Lovan: (Inaudible) saying well you have to understand (inaudible) Ewing: I don't know Lovan: (Inaudible) Ewing: Well I always hate to be the negative one here but Wally I don't know how you can say that until you have the design of the sprinkler system. We haven't even decided on, unless you are going to tell all the sprinkler people hey all you are going to get is 1200 gallons per minute to design the system on that (inaudible) Kingsford: What you do John is set up how many spaces you need based on that amount (inaudible) another station Ewing: That is exactly the point I am making (inaudible) this all has to tie together. We can't assume that what is there now will (inaudible) until we and firm up a place on the sprinkler system until, it all works, one thing affects the other and the other way around. So, I guess I wasn't really trying to be sarcastic or negative but really until we know all of those things I guess sitting here listening I am not going to agree that yes just build it the way the other one is and it should work because it worked before. I guess I am taking Golf Course Construction Committee March 18, 1996 Page 23 more of the stand that show me something to make be believe that this works just because it worked before. This is a new deal, we are pushing the water a different way, I don't know if we are going up hill or down hill it doesn't matter (inaudible) but we are definitely thinking about a whole different system a low head system. Lovan: With the low head system we are talking about the same amount of water. Ewing: I just don't want to be sitting here a year from now on the committee saying I don't know why that sprinkler system or this pump system cost us an extra $50,000 when (inaudible) that is the only point I am making. Lovan: Believe me when I say it will work it will work. Ewing: Will you make up the difference when we have a change order? Lovan: You can believe me (inaudible) what we have out there now I have been fooling with (inaudible). Ewing: What 1 am saying is will you back it if we have. any after this committee votes and says I will pay we will pay X number of dollars for this if there are any change orders and any back charges to make it work that you will make it work and pay for it yourself. Lovan: (Inaudible) Ewing: If you will I will tell you what, I guess I feel like I want to make it where we don't have any of that but if you make that comment that you will make up any (inaudible) Lovan: Ido (inaudible) done with my approval. (Discussion Inaudible) Morrow: I think to bring this to a resolution I think what we need to do is that you will get us the specs (inaudible) the supply box. It ought be fairly simple to confirm those with the (inaudible) Gary Smith can tell us (inaudible) so let's get those specs put together and press on with that. We have got these (inaudible) concerning where we are going here and the last thing is where are we at with the sprinkler specs are we ready to go to bid with (inaudible) Lovan: All four of these people have a bid and (inaudible) Morrow: So we have all four bids from these companies. Golf Course Construction Committee March 18, 19~ Page 24 Lovan: For equipment (inaudible). Kingsford: Nor do we have it installed, we have a bid for the equipment am I right? Lovan: Right Marrow: Those bids are not for installation? Lovan: Not for installation Morrow: So we need to get that number yet also, now can you get that number from the same people that bid the equipment, installation? Lovan: (Inaudible) Kingsford: Well Terry Cook mentioned one person that we might be able to get, now I imagine their getting booked up if not already booked up. Walt as soon as we can get those crossings done how would you suggest we deal with getting those punched across, that is not going to be the same people that put in the sprinkler (inaudible). Morrow: (Inaudible) I guess the question is Kingsford: I am just saying that from a point of (inaudible) I think that is one of the more critical tie ins to all of this (inaudible} water in the ditch. Morrow: So what (inaudible) Kingsford: That and having the agreement. Lovan: That is going to be the toughest. Kingsford: I am saying we need to have that and maybe even done or even (inaudible) by our next meeting. Morrow: I think the thing is that for something as simple as this if we can get one of the guys that I know that Gary has (inaudible) Mike Rice, (inaudible) makes sense to me to simply say we need this kind of a sleeve put in this is the location (inaudible) we are not talking about (inaudible). Kingsford: That ditch, it is (inaudible) we are talking about probably a sleeve of 20 foot. Golf Course Construction Committee March 18, 1996 Page 25 Morrow: That is one section of pipe. Kingsford: Right Morrow: And then there is (inaudible) Kingsford: We need to put a six inch pipe in, isn't that what you are looking at a six inch main? Lovan: No I think we probably need to go to a ten, one system calls for a ten inch pipe from the pump house over across the ditch and then (inaudible) Kingsford: So we are talking about a 12 inch lead and then (inaudible) Morrow: (Inaudible) is that you have the sleeve bigger than the pipe and you slide the pipe through. Your sleeve could be anything from a piece of some sort of plastic pipe or corrugated galvanized pipe (inaudible) and the issue is when maybe when we decide what size of sleeve it is we get a little bit of a break on buying the pipe for the sleeve. Maybe it comes from (inaudible) so I think that can be done very quickly, it is a just a matter of, if we have somebody's permission to put it in it is a matter Kingsford: I think we need keep feeding the fire to make sure we get that license agreement and then have a person on stand by to get it done. That is critical we are at the 18th of March and we are going to have that done by the 8th of April. Morrow: Continue to keep on Gary and (inaudible) Ewing: Have we got a location? Kingsford: I gave him a map and I don't know that it has to be exact but pretty near the center of the fairway going across on the north one here somewhere south of where we are going to put in the club house. Lovan: Is that two of them? Kingsford: Well you tell me, we don't need to loop it what does your guy call for? Lovan: Excuse me (inaudible) looking at (inaudible) Kingsford: I thought we would probably (inaudible) we got a license agreement for a particular area (inaudible). Something we haven't discussed at all you guys is this line that Golf Course Construction Committee March 18, 1996 Page 26 ties the lakes together. I don't know what cost we are talking about, we are talking about a long pipe in terms of (inaudible) we need to also sleeve for that. Now, I don't have the first clue, I am not an engineer, I am an old farmer I just damn near bet that if we have a four inch pipe tying those together that with the bungee that you have basically in ponds through the day that maybe that is going to work those. Your reactions? Morrow: You are talking about an equalization line to keep the the two ponds equal? Kingsford: That initially we will fill and then actually we are talking the possibility of four ponds here, (inaudible). Morrow: Do we know the size of the ponds? Kingsford: Well two of them are pretty well built. (Inaudible) Lovan: That is going to need (inaudible) Morrow: So I guess the question is somebody (inaudible) somebody ought to be able to size those (inaudible) pipes are. Lovan: (Inaudible) Kingsford: I think that we did discuss that could be done pretty easily because we were only talking about something like a quarter and a half foot change in rock from those. That was from the topog that they had (inaudible) all you are talking about is where you put the inlet and outlet and certainly do that (inaudible). Lovan: Can we (inaudible) take the over flow from our existing ponds and run that water through underneath (inaudible) ditch and the end of the pond. (Inaudible) Kingsford: And the other ponds? (Inaudible) they deliver to us we can do with it what we want can't we? All we have to do is get a permit to put it back in the drain (inaudible). Lovan: (Inaudible) the other drain over there that Campbell worked on is still not working. (Inaudible) Morrow: Well let me se® if I understand what you are saying then, is that the water comes in the ditch out of the I~ter~l comes in the first pond, goes through conceivably (inaudible) and then goes into a drain ~IitGh and (inaudible). Lovan: (Inaudible)