HomeMy WebLinkAbout96Apr01 Golf Course Committee MinsGOLF COURSE CONSTRUCTION COMMITTEE APRIL 1, 1996
The regular meeting of the Golf Course Construction Committee was called to order by
Chairman Walt Morrow:
MEMBERS PRESENT: Grant Kingsford, Patsy Fedrizzi, Wally Lovan, John Ewing:
Morrow: Patsy, you'll review the financial information as best you can because I did not
ask Janice to get me the information as I was supposed to.
Fedrizzi: So I called Janice this morning becuase I had not received that yet and so she
put this together for us to (inaudible). I have not therefore had time to match up with my
own records which I have given you a thick little pad here of information and Grant that
was with (inaudible) I really wasn't sure how you wanted me to bring all of that forward so
what I did rather than retype some of the information I have given you the April 1st and
February 12th and the January 18th which are the only financial statements I have done.
Then I have included a list, the first page of the copy out of my books is all donors to date
and then expenditures to date and commissions paid to me to date. So if you wanted to
study those or had some questions on those that might help you. In the mean time what
I will do is get wi#h Janice. I have made her a copy of this and we will, 1 will first snatch up
if there are discrepancies with hers and mine and then I will get with her and see if there
are any errors. There were once before, there were several in it so I don't know if all of
those have been taken care of or not. One of the things like at the last, it says the golf
course expansion that she gave me on 3-1-96 is I do not enter those kinds of things in
mine becuase all I have is what comes through me either in or out as an expense. That
is where our figures would be off so I need to go through there and double check all of
those. She does reflect the trade out though. But there is the discrepancy in mine
$11,669.96 and her $22,686.90 so I will have to figure out where the little figures might be
off. The anticipated expenses I at least not through me, I don't know if the Statesman has
yet billed the City (inaudible). Modern Printers for this flyer was $28 becuase I could not
get the original from the Statesman but it was a smaller one anyway. So what I did was I
gave the information to Modern Printers and had 350 of these flyers to put in this month's
Chamber of Commerce newsletter. I will give you each one of those, it is very like the
Statesman one except for they tidied it up a little bit. I thought then in the Month of May
which we have already paid for the Chamber Newsletter in June as well is again we will
start that (inaudible) only 60 days left or only 30 days left or whatever the case may be.
So any suggestions or comments or questions?
Morrow: I guess the question is, last time we talked about we were going to let it rest for
two weeks to see if we put anything more in the Statements have we (inaudible).
Fedrizzi: Well the response has been, my daughter has been sick as I have been all this
last week mostly we have been, we are doing the massive telephone calls and we are
reaching some and then we had others that had to call us back. Some of those have called
us back and some have not. We are getting very much the same response, a lot of what
Golf Course Construction Committee
April 1, 1996
Page 2
we had this week less then (inaudible) what we had before and some of the others
reasons is there is a problem with some people with the City, we are talking about
contractors that have called us back. Is that if it weren't a leased out thing and the City
owned it then they would see some responsibility coming forth in helping but they don't
think that they can take out of their budget (inaudible) so that has been an issue with the
contractors.
Morrow: Okay, so I guess where we are at then is our note from the last time is to go two
weeks to see if it generates enough money to pay for the ads and (inaudible) a golf
tournament. Your opinion at this point would be?
Fedrizzi: My feeling is bag the Statesman, I did not get one call generated from the
Statesman itself.
Morrow: John your thoughts?
Ewing: (Inaudible)
(Discussion Inaudible)
Fedrizzi: And with the phone calls. I have a little, I don't know if misgivings is the word,
don't want Wally to have any misgivings, our next calls would go, actually like our mailing
was before, we had done the Chamber mailing and the contractors follow up on calls with
those things and the only thing that we haven't followed up with is your membership, the
mens and ladies membership and I guess I just need your input on what we have pursued
them before but I don't know if you want to continue to pursue them. That seems to be the
only avenue now to be coming up with maybe some potential as Wayne Crookston had
some interest but we have called him because Chamber (inaudible) I guess I just need
your blessing or to say don't do it or something so that we can go forward becuase that
would be our next step. Is it okay to work that?
(Inaudible)
Morrow: Anything else Patsy?
Kingsford: If you are doing cold calls I might just offer that there is a possibility that those
people that are living around the golf course that are not members (inaudible) I would think
that you could probably pick that up off of the service list from Janice.
Patsy: Would she have it broken out in just that one subdivision?
Golf Course Construction Committee
April 1, 1996
Page 3
Kingsford: By subdivision she probably would (inaudible) but that is the only thing that I
can think of (inaudible)
(Discussion Inaudible)
Morrow: Any questions for Patsy (inaudible)
Kingsford: I don't have any questions for Patsy I think it is very straight forward, this I need
to talk to Janice about, I can't determine from her list here if these items that were carried
over from the preceding page up here (inaudible) I am not sure, these would be items that
most of these for example would be, as I look at this would maybe be these from
(Inaudible), I started to think that they must be from White in Cherry Lane No. 3 and then
Golfview but I can't figure these out and if these are actually (inaudible)
Fedrizzi: Glancing at mine, my print out where she has got this she has included a lot of
like grounds maintenance and all of this is in this.
Kingsford: Any time they have written a check then it will appear over here. Which I
understand that but for example the top of (inaudible) 11-6-95 I don't see an 11-6-95 on
this sheet so I am assuming that perhaps there is $1300 that doesn't appear on the front
page. 11-27-95 There is not an entry on that front page so I assume that we must have
$7150 on this back page (inaudible).
Morrow: Well the question in my mind is could we possibly be already off setting the
(inaudible) the $350 with the $7150?
Kingsford: Run that by me again?
Morrow: Well is it possible that she set up an account for the $350,000 that is basically left
for this expansion and began the payback on the $350,000 already (Inaudible)
Fedrizzi: I asked her that question a moment ago becuase I wanted to know what I had
received here and she said she wasn't sure if that was set up or not.
Kingsford: That is what it is given those dates that is what it would be (inaudible) fees
collected in by the lake. So still and I have asked her repeatedly, still nowhere on here do
I see a carry forward. I know for example that Dennis Marshall came in here and wrote us
a check for $1900 or $2100 I can't remember which it was for Golfview Estates. I never
found out because I could never get the numbers but some at least was collected from
Cherry Lane No. 3 that Paul White has. He was very amenable to contributing $100 for
each of those lots and somehow that didn't get collected on some and did on some.
Golf Course Construction Committee
Apri 11, 1996
Page 4
Janice repeatedly would tell me at the time that it was coming through on escrows. I have
never seen the damn list.
Morrow: Okay so you to talk to Janice about the Paul White and Dennis Marshall
(inaudible).
Fedrizzi: I would like to see this broken up into 3 different accounts if that is the way you
are going to do it and just for the record I would like to say this is my frustration in doing
Centennial and where it showed we were over becuase this is exactly the problems that
we had. This is going to be a shdrt lived thing but I don't see why it cent be broken out into
the three becuase my stuff has to go through with a purchase order or with a (inaudible)
I have to do the credit. I don't have a copy of it, I don't see how it is so hard (inaudible)
here is this coming out of the (inaudible).
Kingsford: (Inaudible)
Morrow: Okay, we need to follow up with that (inaudible).
Fedrizzi: My concern because of the Centennial becuase of this is for the City what about
your other, does the Fire Department go through this and all the other departments go
through this
Kingsford: I don't think they do as much because this is an extraordinary function as the
centennial thing was. When it is in a normal budget year (inaudible). Still there is a
frustration there and (Inaudible)
Morrow: (Inaudible) Paul White and Dennis Marshall money and confirm that the page 1
printout is a n off set of the $350,000 (inaudible) The next issue is that you have in your
(inaudible)
Kingsford: (Inaudible)
Fedrizzi: Is this the exact way we will be (inaudible) or will it have letterhead or anything?
Kingsford: I don't know that it ought to be on letterhead (inaudible) I don't know whether
Wally would want to put it on his letter head or not because it is a joint type of an issue
(inaudible). Unless we show it on some sort of a nicer background type thing.
Fedrizzi: I am just wondering if maybe we shouldn't do something to give it either give it
our golfer or something that would make it look like something (Inaudible) does it need a
seal on it or (Inaudible).
Golf Course Construction Committee
Apri 11, 1996
Page 5
(Discussion Inaudible)
Fedrizzi: Something to make it real official
Lovan: I suppose we can use one of my letterheads and (inaudible)
Morrow: I don't have a feeling (inaudible) your thoughts John?
Ewing: It certainly doesn't matter how fancy it is. I don't think anybody is going to frame
one or anything.
Fedrizzi: Official is more what I was thinking.
Ewing: It is just a matter of if there ever is a problem.
Kingsford: I think the issue might be John that if we have it looking a little more like a legal
document it wouldn't be as apt to be thrown away inadvertently. There are those kind of
well not (inaudible) little better parchment those kinds of paper that is (inaudible)
Fedrizzi: All this could be typeset in a little nicer form. It is not that spend and it would look
great and official just like you said very professional.
Morrow: Could you have that done Patsy I will get this to Wayne to have the corrections
made here in terms o the spelling and (inaudible) I will give you those prototypes and you
can get them printed up.
Fedrizzi: Okay, I think that may be all that needs to be done, just to (inaudible).
Morrow: Okay, (inaudible) within the body of the letter?
Ewing: Let me finish reading it, pass around.
Morrow: Wally, is everything agreeable with you as it is written as you see there are two
copies there one is, the underlined stuff is (inaudible)
Kingsford: I have one of each and I just (inaudible)
Morrow: The one that is lined shows that (inaudible)
Kingsford: You should have both somewhere.
Golf Course Construction Committee
April 1, 1996
Page 6
Ewing: This is the final copy?
Morrow: Yes, this copy represents the changes (inaudible)
(Discussion Inaudible)
Morrow: While we are thinking about it I checked with Will in terms of the $2000 or so
(Inaudible) cashed or deposited about the 1st of March. (Inaudible)
Kingsford: They show it as having been posted on the 1st of March, $2170. That is the
one that (inaudible) and it was cashed you say?
Morrow: Yes cashed or deposited I checked with Will (Inaudible) he said it was as near
as he could tell cashed or deposited approximately (inaudible).
Kingsford: Mr. Chairman, pursuant to John's comment last week with regard to how much
work we got (inaudible) way above and beyond (inaudible) and there was discussion
about Larry, do you have the tickets did he give you tickets like Charlie did, what do we
have to represent what Larry has done?
Lovan: (Inaudible)
Kingsford: I have just never seen those. Do you know where we stand with him in terms
of that $10,000?
Lovan: (Inaudible)
Fedrizzi: (Inaudible) but I have never received anything after that (inaudible).
Lovan: (Inaudible) Fuller desires to use passes to (inaudible) other things that are
scheduled all week (inaudible)
Fedrizzi: Wouldn't it be better to take the seven days out and just say with prior
arrangement. That is not much time for a tournament, seven days.
Morrow: But Patsy the issue is that (inaudible) it will be better to have (inaudible) with say
(inaudible) tournament out here on Friday and you have (inaudible) then they have to
(inaudible) is that okay, yes or no.
Kingsford: Do we need to add something to that Wally (inaudible)
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April 1, 1996
Page 7
Lovan: (Inaudible) and then give seven days notice (inaudible)
Kingsford: There may need to be something said about their not creating a conflict with an
existing tournament (inaudible) I can see where John would say well (inaudible) I want my
tournament and legitimately so from this.
Morrow: So how would you phrase that to get where we need to be?
Fedrizzi: Well I would think that (inaudible) that is almost saying that you need seven days
and you could do it regardless whereas if you have to make arrangements then you know
you have to go in and see if space is available or (inaudible).
Kingsford: If you just say you must make prior arrangements (inaudible) then they can
mitigate any conflict that might be in there so (inaudible) stop there and scratch make
seven days prior, seven days, must make prior arrangements. So scratch out seven days.
Fedrizzi: It wouldn't matter if it was the 30 days if you couldn't accommodate them.
Kingsford: Wally has his schedule now for the (inaudible)
Morrow: (Inaudible)
Lovan: Yes I would be comfortable with that.
Ewing: I agree with that, I suppose that if I called tomorrow and wanted to do it on
Thursday and there is nobody playing it shouldn't matter.
(Inaudible)
Lovan: (Inaudible) and Tuesday morning ladies are out there every Tuesday morning, that
is ladies day. Thursday is mens day and (inaudible)
Fedrizzi: All that is really saying is you can't go out there and holler and show up and say
we are going to have a tournament now.
Lovan: We try and keep everybody happy.
(Inaudible)
Morrow: I will get this thing to Wayne Crookston
Golf Course Construction Committee
April 1, 1996
Page 8
Fedrizzi: When Wayne fixes that up you might tell him to slip a copy and (inaudible)
Morrow: The next issue which is a bit of a stumbling block and I think Grant is aware of this
but based on yesterdays ad in the paper it appears that Nampa Meridian is turning in their
water tomorrow into the Ridenbaugh canal system. Immediately followed by water into the
drains and laterals. Normally water would go in the canal on the 15th their representation
is that it will be ready for the fields for the 15th. So they are actually 15 days ahead of
schedule (inaudible) in terms of the water. What that does to us is where are we on the
license agreements that (inaudible).
Kingsford: I should go and talk to him now, I have talked to him twice about it and I don't
know what stage he is at. I suppose what we need to do is do you know if he is available?
(Inaudible)
Kingsford: If we could get him over and possibly again we have got to grab an agreement
from Nampa Meridian and get a hold of (inaudible) and get that pipe under there
(inaudible) the bridge we can do after. The other thing we have got to do so they don't take
our head off is and maybe it is out the dirt bridge still in there as well as the bridge that has
the pipe in it. Are there two out there is what I have been told.
Lovan: There are two out there that we have to repair (inaudible)
Morrow: And the issue is that we need to do that because as of 3-28-96 at 9:40 a.m. Dean
(inaudible) Bob Corrie that (inaudible).
Lovan: They talked to me here a couple of days ago and (inaudible)
Kingsford: Now are they still saying that the water should be down to you on the 8th or is
it going to be earlier than that.
Lovan: The last I heard (inaudible) they were turning in the Ridenbaugh (inaudible) 4 or
5 days to (inaudible).
(Discussion Inaudible)
Morrow: And I guess at our last discussion here we were talking about putting a head gate
closer to Mr. (inaudible) ditch across the property at all. Obviously that is not going to get
done this irrigation year (inaudible).
Lovan: (Inaudible) ditch and (inaudible)
Golf Course Construction Committee
April 1, 1996
Page 9
Kingsford: In addition to the two pipes for the irrigation system does anyone really give a
thought to how we hook up the ponds, I am thinking we need a pipe across there for a
static (inaudible)
Morrow: At our last meeting we talked about that (inaudible)
Kingsford: So we need to have that but realistically I guess we can have that at the same
crossing is probably the north irrigation pipe do you suppose. I haven't really given a lot
of thought to that and how we are going to hook those together but I assume to go straight
to the existing pond to that pond that is just across the canal.
Lovan: I am assuming that we can do that and catch the one canal to the north or the two
small canals to the north. I don't know whether we can go on (inaudible) property
easement all the way down where the old baxter property is.
Kingsford: Well we are going to have to encase that in a pipe where the road will be, but
we are going to have right of way we just need to have an agreement with the Highway
District before we put that under that road.
Lovan: Now the pond on the old Baxter property in addition to the one on the Fuller
property to the north, straight north, I don't know whether that ground if there is enough
difference in the level of the property in order to make it gravity flow.
Kingsford: Well it is going to gravity flow they are going to level each other. I have an idea
(inaudible) same height, same elevation so if you connect them with the pipe they are
going to be the same elevation.
Lovan: If they are the same elevation. Everything flows to the northwest.
(Inaudible)
Lovan: If we cross the canal and branch over back to the north by the ditch itself
(inaudible)
Kingsford: That is partially dug out
Lovan: It is partially dug out we can also service the lakes we can also service (inaudible)
some type of permanent arrangement for him. The same thing with (inaudible) service
from the final form will have to be done by the contractor (inaudible).
Kingsford: We just have to get it across the golf course property.
Golf Course Construction Committee
April 1, 1996
Page 10
Lovan: Well right now it is (inaudible) two weeks from now.
Morrow: You see Gary where we are at here is that we are talking about irrigation stuff for
the golf course.
Kingsford: The license agreement that you and I talked about and then the (inaudible) I
guess we are prepared to deal with that. Where are we at with the license agreement?
Smith: I just, when I saw you guys and I thought that this might come up so I tried to call
Anderson again. I don't know why I am not having much luck getting he is out again until
tomorrow so I left another message for him to call. I don't know what it going on as far as,
why I am not getting any response back from him. I haven't even referenced it (inaudible)
wrapped up getting ready for water he is not thinking about calling me back.
Kingsford: Somehow we have got to get that license agreement and that pipe across a
casing now we are going to be stymied for the irrigation season.
Smith: Is any of this ditch on a fill section or is it all on a cut section?
Kingsford: I am pretty sure it is all on a cut section, I don't think any of it iS elevated so we
don't have banks to worry about (inaudible).
Smith: I guess one thing, all they can do is yell at you but put the casing in where you
need it and when they backfill it make sure they (inaudible) compact so it is (inaudible).
Kingsford: Is Mike Rice still doing that sort of thing?
Smith: Yes, he did, in fact we just completed a sewer line crossing down there on Gem
Avenue by the bowling alley across the Eight Mile lateral. In that case about half the ditch
is what Anderson said was elevated and the other half was in the cut and he had to put
a concrete wall (inaudible)
(lnaudible)
Smith: We had to concrete line the ditch for 20 feet, ten feet each side of the crossing
becuase of the cut to the bank. But that was in a (inaudible) section and I don't think it
was all fill section, part of it was cut. So we had to do that.
Kingsford: I am wondering if (inaudible) that is that by the bowling alley I don't know if it
is, it is probably kind of close to the same situation.
Golf Course Construction Committee
April 1, 1996
Page 11
Morrow: Let me ask you this if you drill underneath do you still have to line it if it is drilled?
Smith: No, the only time you would have to line it would be if you disturb the bank.
Kingsford: (Inaudible)
Smith: What size casing are you looking at?
Morrow: I think one line is 112 inches and all we would be doing is sliding underneath it
is a pre sleeve so that we could run the sprinkler line through.
Kingsford: You are thinking we want to run 10 inch main?
Lovan: (Inaudible)
Kingsford: So what we would be looking at Gary is at one site we would want to run two
pipes, one would be aesthetic type to that we can fill and level the ponds. The other one
will be a pressure line golf course irrigation system at one site. The other site will be
(inaudible)
Smith: Which one?
Kingsford: Probably the north one would have two pipes in it, the south would have just
one and each one crossing would have a pressure pipe and the north one would have a
static pipe.
Smith: You think the pressure would beaten inch (inaudible) static would be
Kingsford: As little as we can make it. How much overflow Wally do you typically have out
there. Again where you take it out of the canal and that ditch runs full it is kind of a leveling
thing in itself, you don't run water in the head gate when it can't go anywhere, am I right?
Even static you can move quite a lot of water over the period of the day where you are not
talking about a demand. You can move a lot of water through a six inch pipe can't you.
Would we need to have any more than a six inch pipe in those ponds?
Lovan: (Inaudible) the pipe that Campbell gave us is probably filled (inaudible) The ditch
company is still turning in as much water as much irrigation water in that property over
there by the Mormon church (inaudible) waste water runs down that pipe. (Inaudible)
Kingsford: I thought you were saying that our overflow line was (inaudible)
Golf Course Construction Committee
April 1, 1996
Page 12
Lovan: Well I think it is under sized becaase (inaudible) all of that area there now with the
(inaudible)
Morrow: So what you are saying is that they have adjusted the pressurized irrigation
systems (inaudible)
Kingsford: What used to go through that drain across Ten Mile and across No. 4 on the
golf course and No. 3 on the golf course (inaudible) Campbell pipe (inaudible) We
dumped our overflow into that ditch before when Campbell piped it and hooked our
overflow into that pipe there is enough water running in the pipe (Inaudible)
Lovan: The longer your pipe goes the longer (inaudible) we have got a half mile
(inaudible)
Morrow: So really what is happening to us Gary is that on some of these pipe sizes
(inaudible) this is similar to the problem that we had with there off of Eagle Road with Don
Brian's property, Locust Grove where all of the sudden he is getting all that stuff through
there and it is flooding him out and so on and so forth. The same thing is happening at the
golf course because your supply line, the size of the line is predicated on the supply line
and everybody forgets about the other water that is coming in the system because it is not
being fully utilized (inaudible) and the calculations that we are (inaudible) until they cut
back on the flow if they are going to (inaudible) because we are overlooking (inaudible)
and that is what you are saying is happening at the golf course. So how does that relate
to the solution of the problem in terms of whether it is a six inch, eight inch or ten inch pipe
to equalize the ponds?
Lovan: (Inaudible)
Kingsford: We are going to have more water turned into that head gate here pretty soon
too but we take the water from the new line (inaudible).
Morrow: It looks. to me like (inaudible)
Kingsford: But still the reality is going to be Wally isn't it that you can't take additional
water through that head gate if you opened it wide open becuase it is standing it is as
high as it will go am I right or wrong?
Lovan: Well no you can get more water through the headgate.
Kingsford: You would have to put in a structure behind the head gate (inaudible)
Golf Course Construction Committee
April 1, 1996
Page 13
Lovan: (Inaudible)
Kingsford: nny observation has been the ditch was always completely full because the
pond was full and it wasn't moving becuase (inaudible)
Lovan: (Inaudible)
Kingsford: There is going to be by the time that you have the pressure of the lakes, each
one of those lakes moving through even 6 inch pipe you are going to move a lot of water
won't you Gary by the time it hits that northwest corner.
Smith: The amount of water you can push through a pipe of course it all depends on
(inaudible) water profile from where your water enters to where it is leaving (inaudible)
an idea of how big of a pipe is needed to carry (inaudible) water that flows there through
there.
Kingsford: (Inaudible) that is going to be a lot of pipe, we are looking at a mile of pipe
(inaudible)
Ewing: I think the only concern that I would have is we are talking about a pretty
(inaudible) the smaller the pipe the more of that we are (inaudible) it is not likely
(inaudible).
Smith: That is a good point (inaudible)
Ewing: That would concern me more than actually, Gary can sit us down and tell us if it
will work on paper or not but Gary knows as well as everyone else here that what works
on paper doesn't always work. I am certainly not suggesting that we jump up becuase you
are right (inaudible). I am wondering is there any way we can feed those our next pawns
since we are talking about a ditch going through could we put our own head gate for the
new ones and draw our water out of the ditch at different places. That is the same ditch
that goes down and turns.
Kingsford: But the problem with that John is we want to hook all of our pumps and pump
out of the existing pond so we are going to need all of irrigation water when we are using
it we need it all there. (Inaudible) you need to have that fluctuation.
Ewing: So are we trying to set those other ponds up where in fact we draw down the big
pond that we actually get a back flow?
Kingsford: I hadn't really thought about that but there is (inaudible) you are going to get
Golf Course Construction Committee
April 1, 1996
Page 14
some of that. I don't think you are going to drop more than two feet to the furthest point.
(Inaudible)
Kingsford: What was it, in fact we were talking about when (inaudible) six inches to a foot.
He had a rough topog of it (inaudible).
Ewing: I guess if we are not going to draw back or not planning on having to draw back
it seems like to me we are talking about some big bucks crossing that ditch and everything
and I certainly don't know very much about how they measure water but I would think that
where you irrigate at night basically the waters runs into the big lake right now all day I
tend to think the same as you do Grant that there are many many times that the water is
not coming from that canal into that lake it has reached its level everything and that is why
that ditch sits full and everything. Then at night when you turn on the sprinklers and you
draw that down (inaudible)
Lovan: (Inaudible)
Kingsford: It is lower but the top of the lake when the lake is full when it is up to the
overflow is not that far off of what you can draw out of the ditch (inaudible). They are
awful close to the same, you don't draw much water out of that ditch when the pond is
pretty full.
Lovan: The ditch delivers more water (inaudible)
Ewing: And now we have made the pond twice as big and we are adding twice as much
golf course
Kingsford: And we are adding twice as much more pond.
Ewing: And we are adding twice as much more pond if in fact you can keep that pond
once when you have it full and it is just a thought but if we could pull even a couple of
inches off down the ditch for our new pond and .let them circulate by themselves it would
solve the problem of getting from the big pond to the other little ones. It would solve
Grossing the ditch, it might even, it would save lots and lots of time. Every so often and
maybe when it is pouring down rain and you are not irrigating maybe we can even change
the walrer from the head gates to blow a bunch of water through those new ponds to clear
the pipe. That is what it takes a lot of times is just build ahead we will fill them up and let
them flush out. I don't even think that those pipes have to have a structure necessarily.
Put them out there, they are rigid enough and have them so that you can adjust.
(inaudible) whatever the level of that pipe is going to be.
Golf Course Construction Committee
Apri 11, 1996
Page 15
Smith: What pipe are you talking about?
Kingsford: The pipe that hooks the pipe and will discharge eventually into the drain ditch.
I don't think that we need to make a fairly extensive cement structure do we?
Morrow: If you are just using it as a leveling pipe (Inaudible)
Kingsford: So if you are taking it out of the top how much silt are you going to get John,
I know what you are talking about because I used to move sprinkler pipes and we filled
those last two pipes up.
Ewing: I don't know, maybe that is an issue of silt (inaudible)
Morrow: Are you talking about (inaudible) continue all these lakes so on the outlet side
what it amounts to is you have a (inaudible). When this starts to exceed the level of that
(inaudible) it automatically flows into it and then down and then across to the next lake.
The discharge side is the (End of Tape)
Ewing: (Inaudible) I guess my thought is maybe some thought needs to be given to do we
really need to bring the water all through one head gate through the big pond and then
pipe it clear over across the ditch to catch our other three ponds and they really are small
compared to (inaudible) If we think that six inch pipe will do it I don't think dedicating six
inches of water on down the ditch should affect the golf course irrigation.
Kingsford: What will that do, what is your feeling (inaudible) those three ponds, what will
that do in terms of the quality of water, will that move water through so that (inaudible) turn
real green. You still have to treat them a little, you treat that one currently but you don't
have to treat it a lot do you?
Lovan: (Inaudible)
Morrow: (Inaudible) even if you hooked them all up (inaudible)
Kingsford: Still have the same problem.
Ewing: I think it would be worse becuase now you are warming the water in the big bond
and you are sending warm water in the second pond and warming it up more and I think
(inaudible)
Lovan: (Inaudible)
Golf Course Construction Committee
April 1, 1996
Page 16
Morrow: How deep is the big pond?
Lovan: (Inaudible)
Kingsford: And that goes with still maintaining about that when we open it up the other side
am I right because you would be taking twice as much out and you are doubling the size.
What are we looking in terms of the other wells when we need the additional water and
there is a well just on the south of or the southwest corner by No. 1 green is across the
ditch, how do we get that then back in the pond unless we have a crossing agreement
there?
Lovan: (Inaudible) there is a footbridge there that they use now (inaudible)
Kingsford: If we have a big toot about this cutting the ditch Wally what has been your
experience is it trouble like you have there on number 6 to have an above ground pipe?
Not ideal?
Lovan: It is ideal for a golf course, (inaudible)
Kingsford: Maybe what we would rather have then and would be a lot less money for us
is to get an agreement to run over across the (inaudible) well actually equipment and
(inaudible) run them above ground.
Morrow: (Inaudible)
Kingsford: So maybe what I am panicking about here is no big thing and we don't have to
have a (inaudible) before the water goes in.
Lovan: The ditch company did complain about it in the beginning but I gave them
(inaudible)
Kingsford: Some of you guys that know what you are talking about, does that make sense
to you, to run it above ground?
Lovan: If we can do it that would be ideal.
Kingsford: (Inaudible) and say we have got to have it within a week to have the ability to
do that which we would rather do or to (inaudible)
Lovan: (Inaudible)
Golf Course Construction Committee
April 1, 1996
Page 17
Kingsford: We have got to still have that (inaudible) unless, you know John makes some
sense there, can we get with them and put in a head gate over there just to service those
lakes and have them just be water amenities and not worry about taking water out for the
other portions. Then we won't have to do anything with the other overflow.
Lovan: The overflow is not working.
Smith: I talked to Nampa Meridian about moving that take out point for Sorenson down to
his property and they said they don't like to move the take out point unless they are going
to take out 40 inches of water, and that is (inaudible) so, I don't know.
Kingsford: What about if we take out ours in conjunction with that.
Smith: That is what I was going to say, if you take them both out, I don't know how much
you are going to take out for the pond but if you can take out 20 inches, I guess his take
out point is down here someplace, down near the bend of the, isn't down near the bend
of the Eight Mile Lateral somewhere down (inaudible). That is the ditch that he was
complaining about getting back into production so that he can get his water. If you could
move it down to this point
Lovan: We have ditch down to this point right now, open ditch. Now that is going to
change when all of this other stuff changes (inaudible).
Morrow: How many inches (inaudible) is that more than 20 inches or close to 40?
(Inaudible)
Smith: I don't know, I don't recall.
Morrow: (Inaudible}
Ewing: My opinion with Nampa Meridian is that just the little bit that I have dealt with them
is that it seems like that if you spend some time with them look them in the eye and talk
to them they are much more reasonable then (inaudible)
Kingsford: You send the paperwork in it ends up in the trash, if you look them in the eye
I think you are right.
Ewing: I certainly don't want to down play Gary's position but it almost seems like they
take you, if I have somebody call for me or you have Gary call is just like saying they don't
even care enough to, I know the experience I had was just beat, beat, beat against the wall
and the minute and I still appreciate you doing that you took time to go over, there was just
Golf Course Construction Committee
April 1, 1996
Page 18
no problem, I am glad you showed up thanks. Again I am certianly not trying to down play
Gary's pull but maybe what we need to do is to get John and whoever else to sit down and
say these are the problems we have got, this is the kind of money it is going to cost us if
in fact we choose to pull out a different place and we need to cross these ditches. I don't
know what these crossings (inaudible) I do know that I assume after our last meeting that
the pipes are out of there or we haven't done anything? I think that those things really hurt
us as a committee, they are very and I can say this out loud they seem to be very childish
about if you don't do what you say you are going to do or you make a promise and you
don't do it (inaudible)
Kingsford: Unfortunately, you mentioned my going over and getting them to do that, I don't
know, I pushed diligently to the point that I told Wayne I would fire him if he didn't have
that for my last meeting and the God's truth is it wasn't done. I don't know whether we
have that licensing agreement yet.
Ewing: I don't know either.
Kingsford: We had their attorney in here on that last meeting and they exchanged view
points and I don't know if anything was completed on it yet. I am a little embarrassed to
go and talk to them because I promised it would be signed from the Gity's standpoint.
Lovan: (Inaudible) 36 inch pipes and (inaudible) temporary license agreement, temporary
agreement or whatever so we can get by through this irrigation season (inaudible)
Kingsford: To run what is in the pipe not to cross it, he is talking about for the ditch.
Lovan: For the big ditch.
Kingsford: I think it is 48 that is in there isn't it Wally?
Lovan: No it is 36, 32 actually
Kingsford: Through the golf course?
Lovan: Through the golf course.
(Inaudible)
Smith: They take a bunch of water out of it for the Safford Lateral at Cherry Lane
(inaudible)
Golf Course Construction Committee
April 1, 1996
Page 19
Morrow: How does that affect Ashford Greens in terms of (inaudible)
Smith: Ashford Greens is saying becuase of the available slope out there that they need
to put in a bigger pipe than 48 and Nampa Meridian is saying no you don't a 48 inch pipe
will carry that. Let me back up, the calculations that Hubble did for Ashford Greens
assumed a corrugated metal pipe, which is the roughest pipe you can put in. Nampa
Meridian is saying well you don't put in a corrugated metal pipe you put in a concrete pipe.
That size concrete pipe would carry the flow. I think you are right they are saying 48
inches is what they want in there, I didn't realize it was 36 in the golf course I thpught it
was 48.
Morrow: That is what (inaudible) they said that 48 would handle it Ashford Greens position
is no it takes something greater than 48.
Lovan: On my side where my house is it is 48, then it splits on that north side of Cherry
Lane (inaudible)
Smith: Well and the length of pipe has something to do with it too. The longer you pipe the
more resistance there is and so, I don't know how many feet that is but (inaudible) a bunch
of pipe.
Morrow: To move on from this point then we need to have
Kingsford: Number 1 we have got to get somebody out there and maybe Gary could you
have Mike do that for us, take out those two bridges that we constructed out there in the
next day or two so we don't have to have (inaudible) Now with regard to the irrigation thing
out there where we tore up the concrete pipe or concrete ditch Wally that feeds Langly
and Sorenson, just Sorenson. Why don't we just get a ditcher in, somebody who has a
ditcher and make an above ground ditch so that they have water.
Lovan: (Inaudible)
Smith: Who is, there was a ditch rider out there that talked to Sorenson and I talked to
Sorenson several times and he was told by the ditch rider that everything had been taken
care of to extend the ditch. There was somebody working out there a contractor was
working there and they had already agreed it was going to be done and (inaudible)
Lovan: Sorenson talked to me and I assured him it would be done even if I have to hire
a ditch digger and (inaudible).
Morrow: Are these ditches the size that you can handle to (inaudible)
Golf Course Construction Committee
April 1, 1996
Page 20
Kingsford: You are only talking about an hour's worth of work if (inaudible).
(Discussion Inaudible)
Kingsford: We need to make sure. that we get that work accomplished, do you know
somebody with a ditcher?
Lovan: (Inaudible)
Morrow: Who is the one that did the
Kingsford: Frank Sorrel (inaudible)
Morrow: Somebody should take care of talking to him and see if we can get that
accomplished (inaudible) how is the working relationship with him. He is on the board of
directors of Nampa Meridian (inaudible)
Lovan: (Inaudible)
Kingsford: I think that I hear a down pour right now so (Inaudible)
Morrow: Okay, so then to recap where we are at Gary is going to check into the license
agreements and make sure that is taken care of and also going to ask Mike Rice to dig out
the pipes that we have in the ditch (inaudible). You will talk to farmer to have him run those
_ two ditches to the Sorenson property and the Langly property.
Kingsford: Is it one ditch or two ditches?
Morrow: Two and (inaudible) not on the same ditch are they?
Kingsford: Doesn't it go the same ditch for a ways?
Lovan: Well I am not sure (inaudible)
Kingsford: What is roughly the number of feet?
Lovan: I would say no more than (inaudible)
Kingsford: What is the other ditch?
Lovan: (Inaudible)
Golf Course Construction Committee
April 1, 1996
Page 21
Morrow: (Inaudible)
Kingsford: Would you let me know right away Gary if Mike can't do that (inaudible) we
need to get that done.
Lovan: We are taking care of the main canal?
Kingsford: (Inaudible)
Smith: So dig the pipes out of the Eight Mile (inaudible)
Ewing: I would suggest that after you get somebody lined up to do it that you contact Wally
becuase there seems to be a little confusion some times of someone out of the group that
is there all of the time that way you know they will be coming and if they are supposed to
be there Wednesday and they don't that way you can call back and say Gary the guy
didn't show up. It does seem like to me that we are missing a little slot in here. I guess I
am surprised that those pipes weren't out becuase when I left the meeting I thought that
it was going to be done. I guess I didn't know who was going to do it, I am not trying to
blame anybody maybe it was me.
Fedrizzi: We didn't get the minutes of the meeting so we don't know.
Ewing: If it was me we need to have everybody checking on everybody too. I think if you
don't hear from Gary (inaudible)
Kingsford: I guess then Gary what he is talking about is some temporary bridges, could
you when you get a hold of John Anderson or what is the other guys name? Bill Henson,
could you see if he can make temporary bridges if we put in pipe for a year during
construction until we get within (inaudible)
Smith: What size pipe is this that is in the ditch right now?
Kingsford: The one that is in there now I think it is it only 18, they just put it in in case there
was some that came that they wouldn't have a back up. It is their pipe I believe.
Morrow: (Inaudible)
Ewing: It doesn't matter I think it is time to get everybody kind of
Smith: Who is going to put the pipe in?
Golf Course Construction Committee
April 1, 1996
Page 22
Kingsford: That would be our obligation for a temporary pipe for a bridge is that what you
are speaking of, that would be our obligation to put that in. If they will allow us to do that
we ought to get that done at the same time while we have a piece of equipment there that
is digging out and (inaudible) so we could put it right back.
Fedrizzi: (Inaudible)
Kingsford: I suppose Gary you could probably help us with where to find that pipe as
cheap as anywhere else.
Lovan: And Gary if we could do the drain canal then at each crossing we need some other
smaller pipe to when these ditches go (inaudible) in other words there Langly we need to
throw some pipe in there so that water can go through (inaudible) the same thing at the
one down there at the lake (inaudible) Sorenson (inaudible).
Morrow: (Inaudible)
Fedrizzi: Well when you are saying the dead line to have it in is absolutely when?
Morrow: Right away?
Fedrizzi: What is right away?
Kingsford: In the next 3 to 4 days.
Fedrizzi: It is really important to have those dead lines that he is alluding to because
(inaudible)
Morrow: (Inaudible) as it goes to the Ridenbaugh Canal usually it will take 3 days or so to
soak that up and then it goes to the lateral and take another 3 to 4 days to soak those up
and then it goes to the smaller laterals and ultimately by the 15th they will be ready to be
in the fields.
Kingsford: If we don't have that out of there we have some liability exposed.
Fedrizzi: Which brings up (inaudible)
Morrow: (Inaudible) this person is who that is (inaudible).
Fedrizzi: Was somebody going to call him back and say what is going to happen because
he was (inaudible) that is the way I understood it (inaudible) wasn't there something about
Golf Course Construction Committee
April 1, 1996
Page 23
cleaning up a mess?
Lovan: (Inaudible)
Kingsford: What is the date on the (inaudible)
Morrow: Wally is saying he talked to him on Thursday (inaudible) he called here at 3-20
at 9:40 a.m.
Fedrizzi: And you talked to him after that time?
Lovan: I think I did, I really assured him that would be taken care of. He was satisfied
(inaudible).
Morrow: So we are on top of that. Any other issues concerning this? That is the crisis
issue for now.
Lovan: The only other issue is that out in the (inaudible) a block wall at the bottom of the
lake and (inaudible) pump house, pump box and I am trying to get all of that (inaudible)
Morrow: Let's move onto I guess the next issue when we get through this step, the next
thing that we need to discuss is that (inaudible) we have got the (inaudible) thank you so
very much for your help Gary we appreciate it. We have had that discussion concerning
the irrigation stuff. I guess the next thing is that on our bid specs that we had to review thru
thoughts on those in terms of (inaudible).
Ewing: I made changes, we talked about in our, well the ones that I had penciled in and
then I have notes here about we are going to furnish the seed and we are going to plant
40 feet from the greens all the way around and made the corrections. That is about all I
did on it, I guess I probably dropped the ball on some of this. Here I am critical of
everybody and not calling Gary I should have probably called Gary and seen if he
reviewed on these general conditions. See if in fact we have to have performance bonds
and what else we have to have and what the insurance (inaudible) because I believe in
the meeting someone was going to hand these to him and have him go over that. To be
truthful with you I guess I never thought about it until I picked them up right now but I
hadn't heard whether that was good or bad or (inaudible}
Lovan: (Inaudible)
Ewing: Is this something to do with the specs?
Golf Course Construction Committee
April 1, 1996
Page 24
Lovan: No
Ewing: Okay, you were going to, okay, I was going to say you had some stuff that needed
to go with this bid package.
Morrow: I had better give Gary this copy that I have right now and have his review that
(inaudible).
FIVE MINUTE RECESS
Morrow: To recap for the tape we brought back the specs (inaudible) John is going to take
those conditions of contract and cross reference them and our conditions of contract and
(inaudible) do the specs for the greens to have Wally review those in a timely manner so
we could actually do a bid with this stuff. We are also discussing having apre-bid
conference be mandatory so that we can review the specs with the contractors. Does that
summarize where we are at? Having said that let's press on (Inaudible)
Ewing: Before we, we really need to take a look at the whole big picture. It doesn't do any
good to have apre-bid conference if in fact we are not going to have water until we need
to get some things solved on where we are headed on the big picture. I feel like every part
of it is important but we really need a schedule. We are going to be ready for greens and
give them a date, put it up for bid 30 days, no more than 30 days before. I think we will
get if we do it too early we will just have to do it over. We certainly don't want to get it
started, get a bunch of money spent and then have (inaudible)
Kingsford: Of course like Gary was saying the construction you can do you can come back
and finish (inaudible).
Ewing: I think we can, I guess that was just a personal thing with me I feel like that once
we get on a roll, once we get (inaudible) things work better than stopping and starting.
Lovan: One of the things they are going to have to do in construction of the greens
themselves and that is (Inaudible) kids out there playing and it will have to be done over
again.
(Inaudible)
Ewing: I guess Wally you know what we still need on this you were going to do a drawing
and you were going (inaudible) and you have a copy of this. (Inaudible) Let's make a copy
and then that is the (inaudible)
Golf Course Construction Committee
April 1, 1996
Page 25
Morrow: (Inaudible)
Ewing: The sprinkler system (inaudible)
Lovan: (Inaudible)
(Discussion Inaudible)
Lovan: (Inaudible) Silver Creek was about $125,000 and Greg Marsden was about
$140,000 (inaudible). Greg Marsden came in with a Nelson type sprinkler head, would be
partially comparable with Hunter. Rain Bird naturally was their rain bird sprinkler head,
Silver Creek was (inaudible). The rain bird and the toro sprinkler heads all have the
solenoid valve in each head and they are more expensive. You can control them a little
easier than you can the Nelson or the Hunter. With the Hunter system you go on the
evergreen bid on, there would be a solenoid valve for every six heads.
Morrow: (Inaudible)
Ewing: I don't know anything about sprinklers, I don't know how myself just what you told
me I don't know how you would get an apples to apples. That isn't
Lovan: (Inaudible) we have to make the specs (inaudible)
Morrow: So we have to write the specs (inaudible) competitive bid you have to write the
specs based on that Hunter head and that (inaudible).
Fedrizzi: Are these installed prices?
Lovan: No that is equipment.
Ewing: So basically what you are saying is the way you put it out to bid is for performance
then, I have this many acres and I want it to always be wet. But it sounds like you are
getting the rest (Inaudible)
Lovan: Well the head themselves are (inaudible)
Ewing: Well you are not controlling every head.
Lovan: (Inaudible) every head and as far as I am concerned there are a lot of
sophisticated systems going in out there (inaudible) $700,000 but it is highly sophisticated
and they can control each head by working the
Golf Course Construction Committee
April 1, 1996
Page 26
Morrow: (Inaudible)
Lovan: No, I can't think of (inaudible)
Morrow: Well it doesn't matter,
Lovan: The point is I think with our old system out there we are strapped for money. I don't
know (inaudible) such as Evergreen proposed and that we try (inaudible) that there will
be a controlled solenoid valve on about every 6 heads. As I recall we have had about 13
boxes control boxes.
Ewing: (Inaudible)
Lovan: All of these are what you would call a low pressure system. We would just turn on
about 100 heads and it would be in three sections, fairways, next to the property have half
heads and the greens. So you would have three different sections that you would be
watering.
Ewing: Did Evergreen give you a drawing? Was that one that we looked at last time?
Lovan: It it not quite as professionally done as (Inaudible)
Ewing: I wondered if they gave you something enough that you could look at it. I don't
know how to go about this (inaudible) to use Evergreen for $84,000 or $86,000 or
whatever it is that you know what you are getting and it is going to work. (Inaudible) I
have one other question if we go to Silver Creek right now they are the ones that appear
to be second on this and told them you don't need to control every head, you don't need
to do this or that do you think they would (inaudible).
Kingsford: What we have to do now is we have decided what kind of material we send this
back to everybody and say bid on it. We can't just call out (inaudible) we have to put this
out to bid.
Ewing: So what Wally went through was (inaudible) and now we are going to spec it
around Evergreen or around Hunter equipment.
Morrow: It would be speed out (inaudible) equivalent of Hunter (inaudible)
Kingsford: (Inaudible)
(Discussion Inaudible)
Golf Course Construction Committee
April 1, 1996
Page 27
Lovan: Here is one thing that I wanted to point out the other day, this is Evergreen and the
system we are talking about is what they call (Inaudible) in other words one sprinkler head
overlaps the others. He drew this all out and came up with the number of heads it would
be and half heads and full heads and (inaudible)
Kingsford: As I look at this Wally, how come there is nothing in this area?
Lovan: That is the lake
(Inaudible)
Morrow: Okay, we have this, are you going to write the specs then for the sprinkler folk?
(Inaudible) What we will do is (inaudible) we will need to (inaudible) so on and so forth
and write the specs (inaudible) need that for our next meeting. (Inaudible)
(Discussion Inaudible)
Lovan: Greg Marsden said he could really give us a deal on pumps and maybe he can and
maybe he can't. There aren't very many pumping people (inaudible). I understand that
there is one down in Weiser and frankly I don't know where else to go (inaudible)
Morrow: Okay, so for our next meeting we have (inaudible) and then we will also have
(inaudible) The only two major things we have to bid are the pumps and the installation
(inaudible) labor to install the sprinkler system.
Kingsford: We are still looking at (inaudible) but I would say probably (inaudible)
Lovan: (Inaudible)
(Discussion Inaudible)
Morrow: Let me ask you guys this based on once we have the specs on the system can
the installers bid off of those specs, installation bids based on that or do they have to be
more information (inaudible)
Lovan: (Inaudible)
Morrow: Who, the sprinkler system installers?
Kingsford: (Inaudible)
Golf Course Construction Committee
April 1, 1996
Page 28
Morrow: That would be part of the package (inaudible) most sprinkler installers at least the
ones that I have had to deal with had very little knowledge of anything other than
(inaudible) My point is that I would like to get all of this stuff put together (Inaudible) and
find out what our final number is very quickly.
Kingsford: (Inaudible)
Ewing: I think what I would do is tie it all in and leave that as a second bid item where we
can (inaudible). I think it is more that they not so much have the extra (inaudible). They
all have people that they will hire to go and do that. If we have it as a separate bid item
and make everybody bid it and then we can take that price judge whether or not it is a fair
price or if they have (inaudible) but at least it gives us a budget number. We sit there and
say hey we get this done for (inaudible) but at least it gets us (inaudible)
Morrow: So what you want to do is (inaudible) we have already set the specs for the
sprinkler materials, sprinkler labor bid then you want to incorporate the installation of the
sprinkler system and as an alternate (inaudible) separate pricing for the all the (inaudible)
that the pump would go into (inaudible).
Ewing: I think that should go with the pump guy not the sprinkler guy. I think we have three
people here don't we, we have labor to put in (Inaudible) and then we have a pump guy
and I think the pump guy should take care of the stuff where the pump i$ at.
Morrow: So that is generally what we were talking about. What we were talking about is
the sprinkler system guy would install just the sprinkler system and then what we would
do with the pump person is that we make him bid the pump, the installation of the pumps,
the reservoir and the expansion of the shed or whatever you call it.
Ewing: I will try to pay better attention Walt.
Kingsford: Well when you said boxes I was thought you were talking about the control
boxes.
Morrow: No, I am talking about the drop inlet box for the (inaudible).
Ewing: I agree that should be wi#h the pump guy.
(End of Tape)