Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAbout96Jul10 Golf Course Committee MinsGOLF COURSE CONSTRUCTION COMMITTEE JULY 10, 1996 The meeting of the Golf Course Construction Committee was called to order by Walt Morrow was at 4:15 P.M.: MEMBERS PRESENT: Patsy Fedri~zi, John Ewing, Brad Watson: MEMBERS ABSENT: Wally Lovan, Grant Kingsford: Morrow: The purpose of this meeting is to bring together budget numbers for what the cost of the back nine would be. Grant Kingsford is absent, he is in Spokane, Wally Lovan is absent and Bert Meyers is absent. Having said that we will press forward now with those in attendance (inaudible). The- discussion now will be in terms of putting together (inaudible) projected cost of the back nine. Having said Brad, what I am going to do is have you walk us through your information and we will discuss each thing for a number and John and Patsy you will have add ons for whatever information we need to (inaudible). Watson: This little memo shown on the front, I have four quotes from four different people for the irrigation system installation. They are listed there, Hillside Nursery, (inaudible) Hillside Nursery that quote was provided through Cloverdale Nursery who is doing the greens who has the (inaudible) Morrow: So Cloverdale is the one that provided this installation (inaudible) Watson: Hillside provided us a list of five references, I have tried to call several of them and I haven't gotten returned calls (inaudible) ILS submitted quite a few references with their quote and they are very experienced with golf courses. Interwest Supply wrote their, I am somewhat familiar with them (inaudible) unrelated to golf course (Inaudible). Morrow: So (inaudible) Watson: The next two numbers down there at the bottom of the page are the pump station. I really wasn't involved in what all is required for that, I think John is a little bit more in the know. Terry at Cloverdale faxed over a quote, $24,700 (Inaudible) this Interwest supply (inaudible) provided a quote today of $8,500. Their quote wasn't nearly as detailed as Cloverdale's though. I don't know exactly what (inaudible). Ewing: Should we discuss this as we go? Let me back up to the upper one, when we go to consider with Hillside Nursery turning in this labor price for the labor for the sprinklers it did come through Cloverdale though. Do you feel like, I feel like from conversation with Terry that we can write if we choose to take them then they are low that we could write the contract to Cloverdale Nursery. I guess why t am asking that question is besides it being low I think it is close enough that if this ILS is super good we can consider them but if we tie that into that Cloverdale Nursery contract is that possible? Golf Course Construction Committee July 10, 1996 Page 2 Morrow: I think from my perspective is that if they are working through Cloverdale (inaudible) for some reason to change (inaudible). Ewing: And I think that is so important if we keep going through with Cloverdale, we starting having one phone call to make. None of this crying well my part would be right if the guy before me hadn't screwed up. There are no excuses. So I wanted to put that in as kind of even with Hillside I think you will get good reports but even if you don't I think that is an important, besides it being low. On this down there did how are we going to judge them, if there is definitely Interwest is low, and they are considerably low. But I understood and you said I understand this more. I really have never understood what Wally wanted other than he had somebody working on it. I understood from Terry that this is a pretty elaborate system, variable speeds, pumps coming up and going down. Have you had time to make an apples to apples comparison? Watson: No in fact these just came in the middle of this afternoon. Ewing: Would it be fair to real quick let Cloverdale or have Interwest of whichever way we want to go, I guess we want to go down, compare bids. I guess what I am thinking, when I ,look at numbers like this and they are buying a Mercedes and a Chevy they both go down the road and they both work but you certainly can't compare them and you certainly can't compare the price. I am not saying that Cloverdale has a Mercedes I am just saying, I am thinking they do thought. Morrow: I guess my point there would be and where we need to go is comparison sake is that we have to know what Interwest Supply is bidding so that we (inaudible) we have a pretty detailed list from Cloverdale in terms of Ewing: Interwest doesn't have any (inaudible) Watson: This is their complete submittal right here (inaudible). Morrow: (Inaudible) adjustable motor saver (inaudible) at any rate they go on and discuss subtotal tax rate, electrical work, inspection and labor to set up, total cost $24,711. Ewing: That has electrical in it then. Then you can't tell Watson: Well this just says with pumps and screens and panels (inaudible) Ewing: So we could have electrical on top of that. I guess I am not even trying to, I am not trying to show favoritism for or against, I don't care. I just want to make sure that we are not getting $10,000 worth of pumps for $18,000 and buying than when in fact the $24,000 Golf Course Construction Committee July 10, 1996 Page 3 may be the best deal. Especially if we get it (inaudible) Morrow: I think what we (Inaudible) and see what it consists of and then compare so that we know it is apples to apples (inaudible) reconcile to make it apples to apples. Ewing: I know this is probably not an issue to anybody but I have to say it, I would like to know why them $10,000 worth of pumps are costing $18,000 (inaudible). We have heard that forever, but that is besides the point. Watson: (Inaudible) Ewing: I think the controls though, haw much was the electrical on that? Morrow: It is only $1000 with labor and inspection. Ewing: That is one place that we were way higher before. Morrow: It is $825, electrical work $220 for $1045. Ewing: Maybe we weren't any higher, I have it down that we never even guessed last meeting. So, I guess we didn't know. That isn't bad then is it. Morrow: (Inaudible) So Brad your issue we get a Break down of Interwest so we know what the comparison is of those two bids. So on our list of things we are going to add we are going to call sprinkler system install at $68,827. For the shprt term we are going to call the pump station $18,500 with asterisk. The next issue is the pipe line, Watson: The next one I have here on my memo is for, the quote that Cloverdale gave for some prep work and seeding. Morrow: That number is (inaudible) Watson: In his description here he has discing twice, land (inaudible) seed bed (inaudible) and seeding twice. Ewing: For a total of $4000? Watson: $4000 (inaudible) 50 acres. Ewing: (Inaudible) Golf Course Construction Committee July 10, 1996 Page 4 Watson: On this pipeline from pond to pond first I heard it was (inaudible) raised some flags (inaudible). I don't think that pipeline is something you can estimate at 6 inches and throw in the ground. There is going to be a point in the hotter times of the year when you are going to need a (inaudible) at least an 8 inch pipe is going to be needed (inaudible) and it s going to have to be (inaudible). I called several pipe suppliers , a couple of contractors and came up with these prices which are quite a bit more than I think was originally estimated. The material cost for the pipe itself are right in the neighborhood of (inaudible) three contractors talked to me about installing and as you can see (inaudible) except for Interwest Supply (inaudible) quoted material and installation at $5.50 a foot that doesn't however include (inaudible). Ewing: That is a total of what for them? Watson: $37,386 Ewing: And they knew that they had to have 8 inch pipe? Watson: Yes Morrow: When we talked a little bit about the spread before you said that the general rule of thumb was (inaudible) in our conversation on Monday the point was well made that you didn't want to penetrate the caliche layer and if we do what we will see in that particular area is (inaudible) I have penetrated it not very far from there and have actually seen water squirt back out (inaudible). So I am assuming that is the point that Charlie is making because he has had the same experience (inaudibly). So having said that and if the dollar for Meridian (inaudible) $3 for running foot for installation. So if we were using (inaudible) that would give us $18,000 and then $13,000 (inaudible) would be $31,000 and it looks to me like if that is the case then (inaudible) got to be fairly reasonable. The question in my mind though is why are these (inaudible). Watson: My question is (Inaudible) he gave me a unit price of $750 for installation, he said that $250 of that was for bedding material. I don't think (inaudible) Morrow: (Inaudible) how deep into the pond do you think the take out has to be? These ponds are (inaudible) Watson: (Inaudible) Ewing: Walt and I probably misunderstood but I was thinking that is what the concern was more than getting into groundwater was that if we broke that caliche layer we could never hold water in it. Golf Course Construction Committee July 10, 1996 Page 5 Morrow: That is true too. Ewing: That is the way I took it but I could have been wrong. You know with me I could have been thinking that way and, but I could tell you were thinking the other way. Morrow: Your point is valid, in both issues, I have experienced that less than a mile away with the hydraulic pressure coming back up. Across the street at Fuller Park we have a pond over there and (inaudible) the penetration is (inaudible) bathtub effect, (inaudible) it is gone within a couple days because it percolates down and away. Our suspicion is it is down and away into Ten Mile Creek and done. So (inaudible) or could be issues. Ewing: I guess I feel to answer your question is if they every need to drain it and they don't drain they can pump it. I don't know why they would have to drain them but if they do, (inaudible) hurts your grade real bad if you come out of the bottom of the pond. I think you would want it to come in low and let it seeks its level and then take out as high as you can to get the (inaudible). Although I guess there is quite a bit of (inaudible) but then again as you say when you get figuring it, it isn't that much for the real distance (inaudible) Watson: It is real flat, that was the real problem with the 6 inch we just couldn't get that (inaudible) Ewing: We talked about that earlier about it being fairly flat and having just gravity flow and silty water to start with. Morrow: I guess the other thing as I see it (inaudible) Watson: I really don't have any problem with not having (inaudible) Morrow: I have always thought these pipe lines (inaudible) I keep hearing people talk about having a (inaudible) Black Cat Road. But t think from a reality stand point Brad's (inaudible) sure there is elevation change there but when you are starting to talk about runs at 1500 feet and such the elevation change is minimal. Is it not right John what we are seeing with those is a peak and they taper away so that (.inaudible) might be close to being the same elevation. Ewing: That is what I think. Morrow: That was my observation because when we were standing there on the roadway or what is going to be the road next to that ditch (inaudible) that struck me as being the high point and the ground went like this and a pond here and a pond here. Golf Course Construction Committee July 10, 1996 Page 6 Ewing: I believe you are right and I will tell you why I believe you are right just to kind of backup your thoughts is we were standing right by the ditch that irrigated south and north. Morrow: So that ditch irrigated both holes then. Ewing: That is what they said, that is what Wally said because we stood right there and I thought the same thing and then Wally made the comment that well they irrigated out of this ditch both ways. Morrow: So where does that bring us in terms of our cost, what number do we want to (inaudible) Ewing: Well I guess, two things, will Interwest do this if they don't have the sprinkler line, the labor to put the sprinkler in, that is the first thing that comes to mind and then the second thing is we have got to get Interwest with a full load. Because if I understood you right they don't have all of the cleanouts that are required. Watson: Well those are fairly typical costs that I (inaudible) Morrow: Basically what Interwest is bidding here is they are bidding only the pump station and (inaudible) they are not the (inaudible) Ewing: I am sorry that is right, they are low on the pump station right now. I am sorry I put them back up in the (inaudible). Watson: That is a valid point because they did submit a quote for the irrigation installation too. They submitted a quote for three different things. They are way high. What they intended to do was way beyond what we want. They wanted to do a little bit of redesign. Ewing: It would have to be real nice for $35,000, it would have to be in color. Morrow: For our purposes now let's use the number of the $37,400, let's just call it $38,000 Ewing: Call it $38,000 for pipe from ponds to pond. Morrow: Then the asterisk there is going to have to be the bid process (inaudible) The other thing is if we supply the pipe (Inaudible) so let's put that as an alternate. (Inaudible) So that is those (inaudible) now let's factor in our other issues, sprinkler parts, what was that number again? Ewing: Materials $72,714 is that right Brad? Golf Course Construction Committee July 10, 1996 Page 7 Watson: (Inaudible) Morrow: And then the greens? Ewing: I have got for greens $98,528.90 Morrow: Now was there any, based on our conversation on Monday was there any adjustment to that price to reflect the (inaudible) Watson: No, I talked with Terry this morning (inaudible) evidently the thing was we are going to take it all out now (inaudible) I guess Wally talked to Terry and Terry called me today and said (inaudible) Morrow: I think you and I have the same understanding and (inaudible) I was under the impression that we were taking it all out at the present (inaudible) what it turned out to be was that Wally made a mistake (inaudible) and put a lesser amount and mix it by hand on surface. So I guess what I was left with was there is less (inaudible) doing it by hand so the labor (inaudible). Ewing: And I don't believe that is right yet Walt, (inaudible) my guys feel confused on that and in fact I hated having apologized for having problems in the specs because we were changing. Whert in fact after I heard Wally Monday, it was a good thing I was tired from the Fourth because when he, I took the same thing, when you take something out you take it out. Well he wanted it out but he wanted it back in and I sat there and I thought this is Why did I apologize for them specs being wrong because it is right back to the way they were originally. So you are not thinking we are going to get a credit at all? Watson: He told me (inaudible) Ewing: I think it is just the way he did it. That is the way I took it. I think we went back to the way it was bid. I think that what Wally wants now, I think it went the whole circle it was in the way Wally wanted it, Wally took it out and had brad ask to have it completely taken out. That is the way I took it, just sand. Then Monday when we were at the meeting Wally said I don't want it completely out I want it in the top six inches of the sand. Well it always was going to be in the top six inches of the sand. I think that is the way the specs read. Morrow: I had a slightly different impression, I had the impression that you have the sand and then you add, I understand what you are saying but at some point it seemed to me Like what we would do is we had the sand and then we were putting two inches of this stuff on top of the sand and throwing the grass seed (inaudible) and that is obviously, on Monday's meeting none of the impression that I had was correct with respect to that. Because what Golf Course Construction Committee July 10, 1996 Page 8 was bid by Terry as he explained it was that they were going to achieve (inaudible) prior to applying it to the green itself and then they were going to put a little bit on the surface and then put the seed. Ewing: I think you understood that exactly right but what Terry was doing was he was bidding out of spec when he did that. If he was going to do that but he was out of spec. He was hoping that he could come in here and convince us and he never told me this but that is what I think that is better. That is the way I bid it, it is better. But if we had said no you are going to do it to spec he was going to have to go back by spec contract anyway and do it the way Wally said. But he never clarified his bid that (inaudible) Watson: He bid it right because originally it was supposed to be (inaudible) and then the addendum which specified (inaudible) Ewing: Oh, the addendum changed it. Watson: Yes, when Wally came back from his trip (inaudible) and I said we are going to have to (inaudible) bid it the way it is speced. Morrow: So that is how it changed (inaudible) what we thought was going out completely to be (inaudible) So the long and short of the story is there is no adjustment (inaudible). So that was the green construction was $98,529, what else did we have now? We have the pump house. Ewing: Here is a bid and this, mine really, that is Bob Frost, I haven't even opened it. I will go, here is this official unofficial and I brought everything to justify it. But here is the Ewing Company's price for it and a total take off which I haven't really reviewed. But the boys said that is the price they could do it for, electrical and everything. Morrow: Let the record show the Ewing Company bid is $7,820 and that the Frost Construction bid from Bob Frost is $6,900 even. Fedrizzi: This is for the pump house, the addition to the pump house to house the equipment and the water supply system. Ewing: The pump house, so how much was that $6,900 even. Morrow: I would say that is a pretty good bid. Ewing: I believe that Bob Frost is very capable (inaudible). But I also thought it was very important to (inaudible) Golf Course Construction Committee July 10, 1996 Page 9 Morrow: Do we have any other Ewing: Okay, so the building we need to write down, alright, we had, these are the items that I had that we haven't covered yet. Is we had the seed which was $9,000, the purchase of the seed but that was supposed to be firmed up because that was just a maybe. We have already bought it but nobody knew last time if it was $9,000 or $8,089 or $9,100. It was supposed to be nine something that is what I remember, can you remember. But anyway, Fedrizzi: Was that in our past minutes? Ewing: I don't think so, I don't think the way I remember we never had a firm it was something not to exceed nine. Then Wally bought some seed for himself which as the last meeting. Morrow: He bought some out of what we have bought. I signed the check for the first portion of the seed and that was like only $700 or $800 and there is other seed coming in. Ewing: That was something that Wally was going to firm up but we had it down last time as a guess number $9000. We also had a guess number of $15,000 for farm labor but I am taking it that this $4,050 takes the place of that. So completely out, we had electrical which I took it from you Brad, well we don't know, we know that Cloverdale has electrical in their pump but we don't know that Interwest the number that we plugged in as electrical. Watson: No we don't, all I can say is we (inaudible) Ewing: That is something that we need to know on Bob Frost, did Bob Frost have electrical because I know we have electrical. Morrow: He has it in tf~ere, he has it broken out in terms of X amount of dollars. Ewing: A couple hundred dollars? Morrow: $270 Ewing: I think I read in here when I glanced through this Tim has $250 or something. Okay Watson: Well, this electrical bid is $270 and not included in the above price. (Inaudible) Morrow: Okay so make his bid $6900 Golf Course Construction Committee July 10, 1996 Page 10 Ewing: Or plus the $270, the electrical is a two part thing. It is a building electrical and pump electrical. So I don't know Morrow: (Inaudible) Ewing: Well we don't know that Morrow: (Inaudible) take the $1000 that it is taking to (Inaudible) Ewing: So let's put in $1250, $1270, Morrow: So let's make electrical $1300 Ewing: Okay, electrical $1300 that should take care of wiring the pump and moving the lights. I think on the building part we are just moving the light and switch or something-. The building we have for $6900, the pipe from the pond to pond is $3800, the rough grande that is being finished now we still don't have a firm number on but that is what we used. (kind of felt like that Terry felt like he could do that for that, didn't you. We had an Idaho Power (inaudible) we were thinking that we didn't have it, we might have had it but I wrote it down. You know what, I think my notes really, if I look at my notes I think we decided we did not have any Idaho Power fees because (inaudible) Morrow: There is enough juice to the site as Wally (inaudible) it is just a matter of tying onto the panels so there would be no (inaudible). Ewing: That is what I think after I read my notes a little better that is what I meant. The bridges, I put down bridges, I think what I was meaning is maybe those culverts that you have the note on. We don't have a number on that. Morrow: So let's multiply 40 by 21 that is (inaudible) let's call it $2000. Ewing: You think that is labor too? Labor and permit? Morrow: (Inaudible) what you are going to have to do it is going to have to be double formed and you pour around the mouth of the culverts and it is going to be crossed and then a wing into the firm bank side so that could be $500 a piece. ~o let's have another item called head works and let's call it $2500. Ewing: So $2000 for the pipe and $2500 for the head works. Morrow: (Inaudible) Golf Course Construction Committee July 10, 1996 Page 11 Fedrizzi: I was reading about the seed, he said it was at $.50 a pound and that was back in February but Grant asked him what kind of (inaudible) up to roughly 5000. That is the only thing that I see. Ewing: I might have mis-wrote it down I thought we were talking at our last meeting of $9000 but I have a great big question mark. Fedrizzi: (Inaudible) we haven't gotten or minutes from the last several meetings right after that so it might be in some of those. Morrow: I think the last minutes we got Pasty were from April. (Inaudible) I don't know that we got February and March. Here is your copy of April 1 Fedrizzi: Well let me look through there I haven't seen that. Morrow: (Inaudible) Watson: So far you are up to 4274,443 I think I have (Inaudible) Ewing: I think we dropped quite a bit, do you have 13 numbers in there, no do you have 12 numbers in there? You have $72,000 for irrigation, you have greens at $98,000, you have labor for irrigation at $68,000, Morrow: Call it $69,000 Ewing: Okay, seeding labor or farm work is $4050, pumps are $18,000, pipe from pond to pond is $38,000, the seed itself is $9000, electrical $1300, the building $6900, rough grade $25,000, Idaho Power nothing, pipe for the bridge $2000, head works $2500. A little bit that still kind of concerns me and I really think we are getting close, is out of the 12 number we have I still have 7 that are somewhat a guess. I will .tell you I don't know how much of a guess we are making. We don't know if the pumps include everything, that is something we need to find out. But I can't imagine us being too far off. I am not sure that if we don't get it get them apples to apples and go back to other guy and get them bid apples to apples the (inaudible). The other thing that is a guess is the $38,000 for the pipe from pond to pond. We don't know, again that is a pretty good guess based on our numbers. I can't imagine us being too far off other than if they say well we were given that price because of the sprinkler system and because we were bidding the pumps too, that is a package price deal and we won't do it. I see that happen a lot. The other thing is the seed we have $9000 and that is a guess right now. But we can't be too far off on it. The electrical we have guessed at $1300 again we can't be too far off. The rough grade at $2500 I am feeling pretty good about that but it is still a guess. And then the head works Golf Course Construction Committee July 10, 1996 Page 12 and the bridge pipe, well I guess the bridge pipe you are not guessing on are you. Okay, I will take that guess off. Morrow: (Inaudible) Ewing: But you have to put them together (inaudible) I was thinking, when you said 40 foot I was thinking we have to put two 20's together. I got it. Well anyway, so I just wrote down the pipe price is okay but I still have, I can't imagine us being too far off though on those 6 items. I feel a lot better about our guess this than last week. Morrow: What did you have Brad for the total amounts? Watson: $347,494. Morrow: Do we have a number from Cloverdale that if we (inaudible) what .the price is going to be. My thinking is that might have to be cut because (inaudible) $10,000 (inaudible) factor that in as a cost of this also. Ewing: I don't know where is that money going at, is it going on top of our budget? Morrow: (Inaudible) and then on top of that (inaudible) charged to the houses that are built there (inaudible) offsets that $350 so that is awarded. Then we have on top of that we have (inaudible) Paul White which we have never been able to find that number (inaudible) money from Gary Marshall in Golf View Estates which we have not been able to find in financial statements that is because we haven't gotten that from Janice. Then we have the monies (End of Tape) in terms of the City's budget. We took the $350,000 plus donations and we (inaudible) for a total budget of around $850,000. So I think what it is here we are about today is that we are saying that we are taking these numbers as an offset against the $350,000 and that gives us roughly $2500 of leeway and then on top of that we can (inaudible) donations which brings the budget to $395,000 plus we have had some other (inaudible) off set of expenses there. Then we had the money that we haven't been able to trace yet from Golf View Estates and Paul White. And so when we get numbers from Paul White in Golf View and add them to the donations and then subtract the cost that we have had thus far as per the last report that will give us the exact amount of money that we have got to work with. My point in wanting to know what the value of this drain (inaudible) then tha only place that money can come from is those drain fields (inaudible). Ewing: (Inaudible) it never did have the drain field in it, is that the drain field. It still has the drain system underneath. Golf Course Construction Committee July 10, 1996 Page 13 Watson: No that is taking out all underground piping. Ewing: We never did have the drain field in the bid, we had already taken those out. Are you thinking that Walt? Morrow: (Inaudible) I thought we had it in there, I thought that we were bidding these greens complete (inaudible). Ewing: What I think and wait I might be wrong but we had this pipe and then this gravel in there. This pipe came out and went over to this French Drain. We had them bid from right here to this. We had them bid all of this, we never had the French Drain. So what we are taking out now is we are not taking the French Drain out because we never had it. We are taking out everything underneath the drain. That number is what? Watson: $15,600 Ewing: $15,600 I did that more for me to get me straight. Morrow: So as I see it what we have to do is we can start learning with these numbers that we have got and we have to firm up the ones that are question marks. Then we have to make the decision very shortly, I guess we have to know two things, let me start over. We have to do one is firm up the prices, questioned prices. Second thing we have to do is we have to find current cash balance for donations. Fedrizzi: You know what my figure is (inaudible) right now we are at $20,233.55 according to my figures. We will have some expense for the passes that we just did for Bill Berg. So that is only going to be (inaudible) Morrow: So the next thing we have to do is find out Paul White cash, we have to find out Golf View and Gary Marshall cash. Ewing: Walt, what kind of expense have we had and or going to have on surveying, are we pretty, are we feeling pretty good about our surveying right now that not any more is going to have to be done or are we going to have to (inaudible) Morrow: (Inaudible) and have him talk to Gene Smith concerning the road way in Ashford Greens (inaudible) that was done Tuesday. It is my understanding that David Turnbull (inaudible) one of the Big Wheels truck showed up and was irrigating the area and (inaudible) as opposed to just the golf course (inaudible). Ewing: So I guess to answer my question are we going to have more engineering fees if Golf Course Construction Committee July 10, 1996 Page 14 we need more stakes? Morrow: We could but I don't know. Ewing: Did we budget something for that? Morrow: I think right now (inaudible) question to ask because we have these other (inaudible) Ewing: See one of the things that we have to be careful of is we have based everything on 50 acres and if you (inaudible) they are supposed to seed and we run out of seed to be honest with you I don't know how they figured (inaudible) I could see how right now we could lose or gain a couple three acres around that 50 acres width, pretty easy wouldn't you think? Morrow: I think and I have nothing to base this on but my impression is (inaudible) when we build something on site (inaudible) Ewing: We will leave the engineering fee as a question mark. Marrow: Any other questions that you can think of? Patsy? Fedrizzi: (Inaudible) figure that I just gave you (inaudible). Morrow: Well it appears to me at this point that we are going to slide in there really close and our ace in the hole is what we have to find out is what these cash amounts are so we can add it to existing cash and (inaudible) that can be cut here is the drain fields (inaudible) Watson: Is the Council planning on (inaudible) Morrow: I think what I am going to do is make a presentation on these items right here that we have talked about (inaudible) in six days (inaudible) that gives us the option of having a little bit of time (inaudible) and to explore these questions. John? Ewing: The other place I think is, I think after Brad works over those, you get that apples to apples I am only basing this comment on that these were supposed to be $10,000 pumps and I think you get them apples to apples and stuff 1:here Could be some money picked up there. Morrow: (Inaudible) You were thinking it could go the other way? Golf Course Construction Committee July 10, 1996 Page 15 Ewing: I am thinking that if you get you find out what Interwest bid and then you put that in a competitive bid place, go bads to, have Interwest go up to and bid what Cloverdale bid or have Cloverdale go down and bid what they did. Morrow: Let me throw this out in terms of that bid stuff, we buy thousands of dollars worth of pumps through the City water and sewer department and we surely maybe we want to (inaudible) see what the value of that stuff and maybe look at labor only, (inaudible) Ewing: We can certainly do that, the thing that I think unless Brad you have a list this has been something that I believe and in my mind has been in Wally's mind of what he wanted. That is the only reason that I think we can pick up on this a little bit because I am not sure that, we don't even. I guess right now Walt I am saying for $18,500 I don't even know what we are getting. We could be getting and I haven't seen all the stuff that Brad has but we could be getting a two horse pump and a jockey pump. They are saying we will (inaudible) I don't know, I don't think so for $18,000. Really I don't think any of us on the committee and I say that very from the bottom of my heart, I don't think any of us on this committee if all of us are sitting here knows what that $18,500 really means. Morrow: (Inaudible) Ewing: That is why I am saying maybe we could pick up a little bit if we could maybe get a little bit of help of what it is taking horsepower wise, size wise, I think that is why Cloverdale Nursery (inaudible) but have a good system there. Mon'ow: Let me ask you this, is Wally aware of these two bids are and this pump system, this $18,500 and $24,000? Watson: I don't know, I don't think so because I just got this this afternoon. Morrow: Let's get him aware of it and ask him what the heck he had in mind for specs. Ewing: I think he ought to come to the meeting and I think they ought to type that on the minutes. Morrow: Did he not tell us Monday that he couldn't be here (inaudible). Ewing: I am telling you Walt I thought I made it real clear to Wally don't be coming to the meeting not knowing this questions or I am not going to vote and he sat there and shook his head yes. Morrow: Maybe that is the deal. Golf Course Construction Committee July 10, 1996 Page 16 Ewing: I would have thought after I made that rude comment he would have said I am not going to be there. 1 think I followed up by I am getting tired of this committee i want off I want done, I want to be done. Anyway, and I might be wrong about that pump station and that is just a .got feeling of the way I see the whole thing coming down is there could be some money. There can't be a lot of money (Discussion Inaudible) Morrow: (Inaudible) the first call we ought to be making is to Wally to find out (inaudible) and if there is not very much difference (inaudible) and I guess I would predicate that (inaudible) cheapest bid is almost double at $18,500 and the next one is $24,700 darn near $25,000 and so discuss that with him and see if there is anything there that would satisfy John (inaudible). Fedrizzi: It seems like so much hinges on Wally and (inaudible) and then they go out and talk to him and everything is changed it makes your life pretty difficult to say the least. We need to really encourage Wally to be at these meetings. (Inaudible) Morrow: The thing of it is at the last meeting he was not here (inaudible) so they were legitimately out of town for that meeting. Today I can't (inaudible) Fedrizzi: (Inaudible) fundraising standpoint because I don't know (inaudible) we still have (inaudible) they still would like to be on a list that (inaudible) see us do something because they have an option on a piece of property. She was also going to talk (inaudible) did they talk to you about that at all. I asked them to give you a call, they may have even wanted to bid, it was after your initial (inaudible). There may be some interest of them doing some work (inaudible) trading that out. Ewing: Who is that? Somebody that does dirt type work? Fedrizzi: Apparently they would come in and do some work and there would be some trade out. We need to maybe really be be encouraging Cloverdale especially at this point because the dollars are so close would really (inaudible) US bank would still like to be (inaudible) What is really sad, I think most of agree and Grant did not, is that now when there is some golf course (inaudible) we need the money before hand so we know what we can do, but if we are that close we need to be thinking about doing something to bring in those extra dollars. I don't know if a golf tournament is appropriate city wide because we have not gotten their full support. Morrow: (Inaudible) pretty close to being convinced that we can make the (inaudible) then we do something like a golf tournament or something else (inaudible) or those other Golf Course Construction Committee July 10, 1996 Page 17 amenities that need to be there that once we have a golf course in place (inaudible). I also think at this point in time other than the 8 or 10 of us that are involved in this effort very few folk (inaudible). Fedrizzi: (Inaudible) it is a little embarrassing after everything we have been through. not to Ewing: I have even had thoughts myself we were not going to make it. Morrow: I guess what my point is that I think at this point we don't want to do something like that where we (inaudible) so we go bare bones and we make it and then we do it and once we can see that seed truck going bads and forth across there and the first sprinklers then I think all of the rules change. I think at that point in time we probably do get some commitment from West One and US Bank and whatever it is. We probably do get some commitment from golf tournament for funds for trees. Based on what (inaudible) some pretty nice trees for not very much money. But the issue is we may not have very much money and so if we have or tournament that raises $1000 then maybe you buy some 30 trees. I think that is the way to go. I don't think we are likely to generate much money until folks see little seeds popping through the surface. Fedrizzi: That is what has made this realty a backwards kind of a deal. Ewing: I think what I am hearing you say is we are not going to cut it off the way we had talked about earlier of cut and dry that we are cutting it off. I think that is what you were asking. Fedrizzi: Well advertising has actually said it is a done deal Morrow: And I think we stick to that (inaudible) Ewing: So US Bank comes in we are still going to accept the donation we are just going to call it and put it in some other fund, enhancing fund or something. Fedrizzi: But those two people (inaudible) potential and maybe (inaudible). Ewing: I don't know that I see this sometimes I don't see budget figures all the time but sometimes I see it. Like in your world of engineering and stuff and I guess the city isn't there some factor you always put into a budget or is there about contingency fund of 10% or something. Morrow: (Inaudible) ours here is (inaudible) Golf Course Construction Committee July 10, 1996 Page 18 Ewing: Okay, that is going to be our contingency fund, what is that about 5% of our cost, oh it is a little more than that, little more than 5% contingency fund. Watson: I usually throw in (inaudible). Morrow: The reason that our numbers (inaudible) decide whether it is a cut or a go with those (inaudible). Ewing: I can't imagine the ones that I have got question marks on it being anything more than $15,000. I am thinking we have some pretty good, the one I am worried the most about is the guess on the bridges and the head works. I can see (inaudible) Morrow: (Inaudible) Ewing: I think you have underestimated the beer though. Morrow: I think the one that I am really concerned about is the (inaudible) Ewing: That is a big dollar too that $38,000 Morrow: I don't see the other things as a big issue. Ewing: Not a big issue, no I agree with you. WE have some big spreads in Brad's numbers. Watson: That is the problem they are all (inaudible) Morrow: I think the reality is that we have to force things together with an idea of not (inaudible) and we have to keep (inaudible) get in deeper than that. All of the sudden when they were deeper than that (inaudible) and we run into other (inaudible) in my mind it is conceivable that for this (inaudible) trencher the old fashioned gas line trencher with the wheels and (inaudible) in terms of the angle and have your grade set and use a little bit (inaudible) bedding material. I don't know if that is doable but that is certainly a way of looking at it to begin with. I think once you go beyond the (inaudible) then you get into all of these other issues but (inaudible) Ewing: There is something (inaudible) cross those canals with this too, what are those canal crossings. We are (inaudible) not the irrigation canals we are not. I guess I asked the question and you answered it and then I wanted to argue that wasn't very good. I don't think we are (inaudible) under the canals and I think that is another issue with Nampa Meridian that at permit time will they let us (inaudible). Golf Course Construction Committee July 10, 1996 Page 19 Morrow: I thought that Grant had explored all of that stuff and I thought that when we did that (inaudible) the two farmers that they also put some sleeves underneath the canal. Ewing: Was that for the pressurized irrigation though? Morrow: Well that could be I don't know. Ewing: If we had to (inaudible) I totally agree that we can't just lay them in there we will (inaudible) but we could be hitting those canals (inaudible) Watson: (Inaudible) I think it didn't (inaudible) Ewing: So your grades are going to get us through the bottom of it? Watson: (Inaudible) Morrow: Let me ask you this question, how are we going to get underneath it this time of year? Ewing: Dig fast. Morrow: I guess what you can do is since you are not going to (inaudible) edge of the canals and cap it off and then press on and (inaudible) after the water is out (Inaudible) Ewing: There is no way that we can coordinate the canal crossings in the same place we are putting culverts in, I am not sure I know where both of those are happening. I don't think we could be lucky enough that it could be. Morrow: The other side of the coin is my suspicion is when we drop those (inaudible) As I see it on both of those points is we get the grass seed up and get all of the stuff done and then you have to do your touch up work on those four items, how many crosses under the canal (inaudible) Ewing: I think it is one Morrow: (Inaudible) We are adjourning the meeting, all those in favor? MEETING ADJOURNED