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HomeMy WebLinkAbout96Jul29 Golf Course Committee MinsGOLF COURSE CONSTRUCTION COMMITTEE JULY 29. 1996 The meeting of the Golf Course Construction Committee was called to order by Walt Morrow at 4:00 P. M.: MEMBERS PRESENT: Grant Kingsford, Patsy Fedrizzi, John Ewing, Wally Lovan, Brad Watson: Morrow: The first item on the agenda will be Patsy's financial report. Fedrizzi: I have a new report for you and some attachments. What I have done with this report is I have just included everything to date. I didn't start with last (inaudible) this is everything. I have made an extra copy to give to Janice in hopes that she could take my copy and with the attachments (Inaudible) and can verify that these are correct unless there are some other expenses that she has seen, I don't know what the are. So, I will give her a copy too. So what we have is a total income of which was all donations of $29,188. Our expenses that have gone through me are strictly printing and postage for $1,239.24. The commissions based on the 10% of the donations and the trade outs was $4,918.80. The trade outs there were two of those at $10,000 which I just brought this over as zero because it added nothing to our income. The balance in our account to date as I see it is #23,029.96. Anticipated expenses are just a few very minimal amount I am sure of printing that we (inaudible) that (inaudible) until Janice gives me a copy of that I don't know what that is. Any questions? Morrow. Grant do you have any questions? Fedrizzi: The first page there attached is the donations, the second page is the expenses, and the third page is the commission structure. Morrow. Questions Wally? John? My only comment would be that at our last City Council meeting I did ask the Mayor to expedite research to find out where our monies are for the Paul White donations with respect to Cherry Lane Village and Dennis Marshall donations with respect to Golf View Estates. At this point we still don't have the (inaudible). We have yet to find that I don't have a clue as to what amounts we are even talking about (inaudible). Kingsford: (Inaudible) I know Dennis Marshall handed me a check for (inaudible) $1900 and I don't know just how many lots actually (inaudible), that was supposed to have been done, the title company apparently (inaudible) and as it turned out apparently we didn't get very many. But my suspicion is (inaudible). Fedrizzi: Walt, what I think I will do is (Inaudible) perhaps if we could (inaudible) and ask her if we could do that (inaudible). Morrow: In terms of finding (inaudible) Golf Course Construction Committee July 29, 1996 Page 2 Fedrizzi: Matching these up and ut olf 5 entries almost all ofbhem were ncosrect, weodid through this many months ago find some things that had been charged ao es but forlthellother departments eed tq find where those are and not gnly for our pu p Morrow: So really what we want from Janice is to audit this statement. Fedrizzi: Right, and then if there are some other things we can look at them and see what, (inaudible) Kingsford: Patsy, if I may again, would you go (inaudible) this $29,000 is that a total of (inaudible) without a tape on that just on the top of my mind we have two $10,000 donations in kind into $10,000 donations in cash that should have been over $40,000 just on those four. Morrow. (Inaudible) in terms of cash Fedrizzi: Right and that is what, you will note up here it says trade out actually when I entered them in so is that clear on that. So I just put a zero, in the past I have just been figuring that with this and I thought it was kind of throwing us a little bit because even myself I was going why don't we have a lot more money that that in there. So that is why I just (inaudible) Morrow. Any other questions? Kingsford: When (inaudible) what are we talking about, a ball park figure? Fedrizzi: Twenty bucks max because in fact all I think it is I just had the contracts for the Berg family done, those four little sheets set up and the other thing with their passes and other than that, I am sure it is 20 or less. Kingsford: Walt, a question, (inaudible) what did we0a~01or $360,000?year in anticipated development fees on those (inaudible) was it $ , Morrow: I think what we budgeted, according to the latest thing that I have seen is (inaudible) Kingsford: Let's take a look at that again, because I think we adjusted that when we (inaudible) a count on those and we bumped it up from $600 to $650 and I don't (inaudible). Golf Course Construction Committee July 29, 1996 Page 3 Fedrizzi: (Inaudible) Kingsford: That was based on the number of lots that Gary projected for me and then we bumped it up to (Inaudible) so when we have been tossing around the $350,000 that is not what we actually (inaudible) Morrow. I will find that information out because we just (inaudible) the issue was we dealt with (inaudible) Kingsford: I noticed by the way the (inaudible) Fedrizzi: It is the reason you do the things you do. Morrow. Okay, if there are no other questions about the financial things Brad has several issues in terms of the technical stuff we need to address. Brad, take it from the top and go from there. Watson: Well (inaudible) This was all the cost (inaudible) the one that is kind of (inaudible) item 6 the lowest (inaudible) all the quotes I got were (inaudible) however Cloverdale (Inaudible) and it seems to me that work could be done (inaudible) by change order. However their quote is substantially higher (inaudible). On the other hand if we go through the bid process I don't think (inaudible) Morrow: Let me ask you this Brad, what were the bid specs that you had these folks bid, was that assuming that everything was going to be graded so that they could drain the ponds, pond to pond out into the drain ditch or was that simply (inaudible)? Watson: It was, they were supposed to assume that the (inaudible) Morrow: What depth? Watson: (Inaudible) Kingsford: Were we talking about any valves and so forth? Watson: (Inaudible) four valves (Inaudible) i# did, (inaudible) there are four different budget scenarios I put together. Down there under expected additional cost no main line fittings were (inaudible) those are really an option (inaudible). There is winterization maintenance type things that we can do and I talked to Wally a little bit about it and I don't know (inaudible) I think it would be nice to have a couple new valves (inaudible) need to isolate anything. Golf Course Construction Committee July 29, 1996 Page 4 Lovan: (Inaudible) Watson: I think I got this estimate talking with (Inaudible) The other thing that we are going to need is (inaudible) every single day by somebody from Cloverdale or Hillside asking what the boundaries are out there. They want it staked (inaudible). I was just called again this afternoon so I guess (inaudible). Kingsford: (Inaudible) Morrow: So let's move to get that done. Watson: Is there anybody that (inaudible) Morrow: Who did the original survey stuff? Kingsford: Well the original survey stuff on the property out there (inaudible) by Hubble, Gene Smith, (Inaudible) Morrow: So that then would be who did the original survey stuff and it would make a certain amount of sense to have them do it again. Watson: (Inaudible) Kingsford: Have you had any concerns from either Cloverdale or (inaudible) Watson: Is that the southern portion? Kingsford: No, it is the eastern portion. Watson: They have called and asked where the boundaries are. Kingsford: (Inaudible) Watson: (Inaudible) Kingsford: I don't recall, was that Power Engineers? But you might get a hold of Doug Campbell of Steiner (inaudible) (Discussion Inaudible) Watson: So Doug would be responsible for that part where his little (inaudible) Golf Course Construction Committee July 29, 1996 Page 5 Morrow. Now between the two of those would that give them all the survey of the entire nine? So those (inaudible) closure (inaudible) Kingsford: Somehow Wally we need to come up with something other than just (inaudible) we have to get some (Inaudible) Morrow: Can we do some (inaudible) Kingsford: Probably that is the smart thing to do. Lovan: (Inaudible) Kingsford: Those got burnt, it would probably be smart to move the bar up just a little bit and (inaudible) Ewing: (Inaudible) but they aren't going to last if they are up. I know Wally is going to run over them with his equipment and everybody else. That is a real (inaudible) but I know it is a real problem with that (inaudible). Morrow. I think what we have to do for the short term is to get the construction stuff in and put the (inaudible) and leave it up and once the construction is done is drive it down or pull it out. Ewing: Whatever, we definitely need to, if I remember the design of that we have got exterior sprinklers that are (inaudible) and we just need a location on all of that. In fact I am a little bit surprised we haven't had a little better control then we have had on it. I am going to be anxious to see when we get it surveyed (inaudible) Kingsford: I hear you, we have located those and did some stepping off and so forth and still (Inaudible) and not all of the (inaudible) were established. They have multiple (inaudible) Morrow: Is there anything else you needed to (inaudible) Watson: (Inaudible) Number 6 on the additional cost (inaudible) who may be doing the pump system wants (inaudible) I asked him to give me a quote on (inaudible). Number 4 is something, Hillside has contacted me and I met with him (inaudible) is going to be sufficient. (Inaudible) and we basically (Inaudible) I think if it does turn out (inaudible) Ewing: I get confused on how all of this gets determined. We go with a whole list of things that we need added to our sprinkler then we talk about having to move sprinklers because Golf Course Construction Committee July 29, 1996 Page 6 we are going to have dry places yet though we haven't ever given them boundaries. Now, this is kind of a big circle that is going nowhere and I am not sure that I am blaming them as much as I am us. Here we are the leaders and what I just heard is Kingsford: Well I disagree with you John, they have a map that is to scale with boundaries and when they drew that sprinkler system they know how far those head shoot and exactly what the (inaudible). Now I don't understand why they are talking about needing four heads now. Ewing: I guess I am saying that, we are supposed to be leaders (inaudible) wait a minute, time out, we have (inaudible) we should have been saying to Evergreen this isn't going to work. Kingsford: I guess that is the question (inaudible) Ewing: I wasn't (inaudible) kind of pointing the finger to us, to you guys if you are running out there, we have to stop that. It seems like we are kind of getting Brad in that cross fire here. ~Cingsford: You see I was acting under the assumption that Brad is the (inaudible) to make it all wet. Ewing: Well he certainly should have we assumed that. We did two things, he did being the professional and then Wally was asked to go over it and check it to make sure. So I am certainly sitting here assuming that it is going to work. Unless we gave him a picture of something we don't have. Lovan: Now we had three people (inaudible) Ewing: You mean they have different opinions of what full coverage is. Lovan: (Inaudible) Morrow. I think the difference was that each one of them designed the coverage based on their particular equipments and heads (inaudible) they drew their coverage off of was based on the legal description we (inaudible) of what is going to be there. Now how you get to a company that (inaudible) coverage (inaudible) given off the (inaudible) Brad is asking us is this has occurred since our last meeting. Certainly I would agree with the fact that we are a little remiss in not having the golf course staked or restaked as the case may be for boundaries for actual installation and I accept that responsibility. But the other side of the coin is that now that they have taken their design and said we need to change this Golf Course Construction Committee July 29, 1996 Page 7 since our last meeting that (inaudible) so it is up to us to determine (inaudible) we are way out of bounds here that we need to do something quickly. If we are not out of bounds you guys figure that out and we will talk about that (inaudible) that is where we are out now, we have somebody throwing a red flag here so we need to determine (inaudible) and press on from there. Lovan: I think I (inaudible) this work did not need to be done (inaudible) Morrow. In terms of the extra heads? Lovan: (Inaudible) Watson: Including materials, he was guessing about 25°~ more coverage and I really don't know where that would come from (inaudible) Evergreen used (inaudible) Morrow. How do we get to this point? They bid based on a set of plans they were furnished to begin with. All three are furnished the same set of plans is that correct and all three do their own design based on their own equipment. Now we have (inaudible) coming back and saying you need to redesign (inaudible) am I understanding this right? Ewing: I don't think so, the people that have it (inaudible) we took a design of Evergreen Lovan: (Lovan Ewing: Didn't Hillside do it, who is (inaudible) Lovan: Silver Creek (Inaudible) Ewing: Hillside is installing it. But we used Evergreen's take off and plan to bid. They didn't, Silver Creek did not bid to their system, they had a substitution for Rain Bird instead of Hunter but they took Evergreen's plan and said okay that is how we got them apples to apples. Does that make any sense. It is the exact same head, everything but we used Evergreen's design. Now what they are doing is they are coming back and saying Evergreen's design (inaudible) Hillside which is the installer is saying, when Silver Creek brings us this truck load of material we don't have enough to do the job. Lacking somewhere between 12 and 20 (inaudible) Morrow. So what the installer is doing is simply disagreeing with the layout that the three suppliers did is that correct? Watson: Right Golf Course Construction Committee July 29, 1996 Page 8 Morrow: So our decision is based on, now to get you and I understand where we are at (inaudible) the decision between you to is what in terms of (inaudible). Kingsford: (Inaudible) now if I heard Brad just a minute ago you are saying you are comfortable with the design that Evergreen did. Lovan: (Inaudible) in my opinion I can (inaudible) but I didn't (inaudible) Watson: Well we are not saying there are going to be areas where there is not going to be any water at all, those things are designed so the coverage is head to head and double (inaudible) Lovan: Will not be so called 100% coverage. Watson: Right (Inaudible) Lovan: 1 ~% coverage you have to (inaudible) this one here is out (inaudible) and maybe we do have an area right in here (inaudible) Ewing: So has Hillside highlighted that for you (inaudible) before we put out the bid? How do you know, you say there is a few and how do you know that now by reviewing it now or Hillside (Inaudible). Lovan: (Inaudible). Fedrizzi: So didn't I hear you say earlier that was not an issue that if that came up you would take care of it as times goes by (inaudible) did you say that? Lovan: (Inaudible) Kingsford: So what you are saying is we will (Inaudible) plan as designed and down the road it is dry and (inaudible) Fedrizzi: That is what I thought I heard you say. (Inaudible) Morrow. Qkay, so then where we are at here is that you are under the impression that this plan that we have is fine and that if extra heads (inaudible) as needed. Your impression of that Brad is the same? Golf Course Construction Committee July 29, 1996 Page 9 Watson: I think, (inaudible) isn't real extensive, but I think a lot of the (inaudible) other than to throw this 25% in (inaudible) better to wait until next year and see where (inaudible) Lovan: And also when they (inaudible) if there are big discrepancies (inaudible) large discrepancy he is supposed to come get us and get our (inaudible). Kingsford: I think that is probably the smart way to go, I know the (inaudible) dry spot based on the soil (inaudible). Morrow. John, what are your thoughts here? Ewing: I guess my thoughts there are do it in the way it was designed, again (inaudible) it should work and right now I don't know how Hillside can base their opinion on something they don't even know, we haven't given them boundaries. I think that is the point I was trying to make, I wasn't trying to accuse the committee or (inaudible) doing something wrong. If anything I am accusing us of not doing it fast enough. We should have had this solved and those boundaries taken care of before all this dirt work (inaudible) then we wouldn't have (inaudible). Morrow. (Inaudible) Kingsford: I still cannot determine in my mind how a knowledgeable sprinkler contractor can draw plans off a to scale map and tell us we have 100% coverage and then someone else to say we don't, that leaves me in the dark. Ewing: That is exactly what I am saying. Kingsford: I am suggesting John that it is not that we have established boundaries because they are on that map, they are very clear. The only exception to that is, is that we made the pond smaller. So I can see maybe three or four extra head around each of those ponds I could buy that but not 50%. Ewing: No, and I am agreeing with you, I am saying that I don't know how Hillside, I am not saying it right, can say that when we haven't given the boundaries and he has got the plan, the map showing that it will work. Kingsford: I think this is another case at least off the cuff of somebody coming in and maybe left some money on the table and saying well let's catch it up. Morrow. Could be, so at any rate where we are going with our decision is that we are going to leave the $12,000 we are going to go with the design and construct and see where it Golf Course Construction Committee July 29, 1996 Page 10 ends up. Now for actual construction they absolutely need those boundaries, I am of the like opinion of both you guys is that if I am looking at a map here and saying this is going to work I guess the point would be (inaudible) and yet I haven't actually gong out and started to install and correlate the map with walking point to point. You and I both know in terms of blue prints and engineer drawings that sometimes there are slight deviations between what the blue print says it is and what it is in terms of footage (Inaudible). It is my understanding from you three that those people never ever walked the golf course to cross compare. So their decision based that 50% is wrong has got to come from the blue print it can't come from any place else. I guess what the committee is saying if I understand you right is that we are going to go with the blue print and go with that coverage and go with that budget and call it good. Anything that is short they will add later as they need to add Ewing: That is what you are hearing from me other than we do need these $1100 worth of fittings for sure (Inaudible) those are pretty blatant. Kingsford: I think that is a given probably, the nine and the two, the main line fittings and the tees (inaudible). So that $1100 we have to plan that. Watson: (Inaudible) Kingsford: Wally, this winterizing maintenance this is for them to come out and blow it the first year just like you do it every year after or what are we talking about here on the (Inaudible). Watson: That was my number that I came up with actually (inaudible) we are adding I think 3 or 4 valves with quick necks so they can blow it off (inaudible). Kingsford: Oh I see, that is not actually blowing it out we are talking about equipment so that it better blows out. Watson: I don't know that would be needed (Inaudible) Really, these four pages the one (Inaudible) we should maybe be looking up because we haven't even discussed the deletion of the greens (inaudible) I guess I am just working under the magic (Inaudible) number. Morrow. So our scenario on page 2 is slightly different than on page 1, page 1 all four of these scenarios were, I am sorry 2 of the 4 were deducted from the green drainage (inaudible). Watson: The difference, the number 2 page, is the pond piping (Inaudible) using the $45,700 through a change order (inaudible). Golf Course Construction Committee July 29, 1996 Page 11 Kingsford: How long would it take them to (inaudible) and what are your thoughts, did they expect to get anywhere need that $33,000 in a bid? Watson: I would think it would be lower than (inaudible) have to get their own separate bonds for performance, payment bonds (inaudible) The other problem is that (inaudible) what the elevations are for sure (inaudible) Morrow: Question, does it have to be laid in grade? Watson: Well, I think it would work better, you are going to get some (inaudible) I would hate to have a dead spot. Kingsford: Even just mud (inaudible) have to be able to blow that thing. Watson: My price (inaudible) Lovan: (Inaudible) Watson: (Inaudible) Morrow: Well it appears to me that what we need to do here is we need to put the specs together and get a bid out there because Watson: Rather than adding that to Cloverdale's (inaudible) Morrow: You are talking about a $12,000 pop increase if you add it to Cloverdale (inaudible) that is a substantial amount, 25%. Ewing: Excuse me, wasn't (inaudible) did it at bid time though and we didn't know, did you find out will that take that part of it without the rest. Weren't they the ones that we talked about if they didn't the rest of the contract would they even do this part. Watson: (Inaudible) and when I told them they wouldn't be doing the irrigation system because they were (inaudible) interested in the other two. I said that the pump system (inaudible) He seemed interested at the time but he hasn't called me back and so (inaudible) Morrow: So what we do have is a valid bid from them even though it is part of an overall bid (inaudible) Kingsford: Was that a bid or was that a quote (inaudible). Golf Course Construction Committee July 29, 1996 Page 12 Watson: It would take, I don't know how many days, not too many days to put a bid package together. We would need two weeks to advertise and there is the customary (inaudible) month and a half (inaudible) Ewing: I am very concerned about the time in fact before we leave I would like to talk a little about the schedule and where we are at and where we are going. Kingsford: It is critical we get this thing platted and have (inaudible). Ewing: And this goes everywhere, this is crossing irrigation, it is crossing seed areas, it is, I mean I am asking that, I know it does. But (inaudible) Morrow. I think them probably doing the bid thing is out of the question, I think if that is the case and vve are 6 weeks any from being able to award that won't work. In six weeks we had better have grass (inaudible). If that is the situation then maybe what we need to be doing is we need to take some, did you have Cloverdalq tight specs for their number? Watson: (inaudible) the exact same thing. Kingsford: Has Teny made any indication to us that he (inaudible) Morrow: Not to myself (inaudible) Kingsford: In your budget here you haven't made any assumption (inaudible) for the work that you are doing out there now (inaudible). Watson: Well I was hoping that (inaudible) Kingsford: Oh, that is the rough grading, that is what that is? We should be very safe then. Morrow: The last conversation that we had with Terry (inaudible) Kingsford: (Inaudible) Morrow. I don't know if that is enough numbers to off set Kingsford: Well of course the other thing that we are not looking at is when you compare. He is used to the $350,000 budget (inaudible) but let's not make too many assumptions, but (inaudible) Morrow: I guess where I am coming I don't want to see any assumptions. Golf Course Construction Committee July 29, 1996 Page 14 Lovan: I would feel a lot more comfortable if we had a drought survey done on those ponds (Inaudible) Morrow. Drop from pond to pond in terms of elevation (inaudible). Well getting back to the original issue then Mr. Ewing Ewing: I will call him and ask him if he can help us on that (inaudible) Kingsford: I think that is the right way to approach that John. Ewing: I will do that tonight, I am going to be gone this week. Watson: The thing to tie into that is they do have the lowest pump system (inaudible) through Cloverdale and I just want to make it formal that (inaudible) change order (inaudible) So that could be kind of a plus their getting that work too. Morrow: So in terms of Cloverdale's contracts (Inaudible) pump station (inaudible). Kingsford: Indifference to Wally's comment on the drop survey, elevation on those ponds, I have thought about that (inaudible) what their elevations are, if you put an 8 inch pipe in, an 8 inch pipe can take (inaudible) so if we are running now at a level that doesn't overfill that pond that with an 8 inch pipe what difference (inaudible) what their elevations are. (inaudible) Watson: I did a real quick water balance for the month of August (inaudible) I just tried to figure out how we could get enough water to the (inaudible) dry up and get that flow through the (inaudible) while they are losing water (inaudible) elevation difference and that is where I (inaudible). I did it on worse case scenario (inaudible) Morrow: So do you know if there is (inaudible) you are saying we do need to do an elevation survey to she what the elevation of those ponds really are or we don't? Watson: If they are out there doing (Inaudible) Morrow. (Inaudible) Ewing: Talking about water, do we have enough, are you comfortable with having enough water storage with that addition. I know this is almost (inaudible) and still run the water to the other pond and waste it in the drain ditch? When you start pumping into, when the irrigation water goes out do you at that time want those new ponds to dry up or will you pump enough water at that time to keep those ponds full if they are going to dry out. So Golf Course Construction Committee July 29, 1996 Page 13 Kingsford: And of course we have that (inaudible) Ewing: I don't know, I called Terry, in fact I have three or four or five issues. I called Terry at Cloverdale Nursery before the meeting because I wanted to kind of hear the rumble a little bit before we got here if there was any and the number he quoted me was $16,500, he thought (Inaudible) but that wasn't firm. He certainly could have been a couple grand off but I Kingsford: Unless he hasn't given Wally something Ewing: He told me that was as of Tuesday of last week and that was the last day that they worked. I can honestly tell everybody that upset me a little bit when he told me he hadn't worked for a week. Well I thought (inaudible) and I am not even saying that, I was just saying that there was a difference (inaudible). Kingsford: In either case if we are looking at (inaudible) Ewing: Terry told me he was very comfortable and in fact he thought that probably the (inaudible) that we had an issue that we didn't have covered after we (inaudible) and come into those comer and stuff we were going to have some hand worked that no one figured on that the equipment could (inaudible) and he seemed to think that if we decided we wanted that knocked down and (inaudible) he felt real good with this number. Again he could have quoted me (inaudible) I didn't have him look it up or add it up. He said well $16,500 approximately. Lovan: (Inaudible) part of that may or may not include (inaudible). Morrow. So where we are at, we are going to have some bucks there (inaudible) pipe line (inaudible) and press one from there. Because no other scenario works. Ewing: I agree, but I disagree with the money. (Inaudible) I think that we need him but I think that he needs to know that he is considerably higher. If he doesn't move off of it he doesn't move. A lot of times letting them have a second look we are giving it to him anyway. (End of Tape) Morrow: I think the issue is if you run into a real problem in the short term what it means is maybe you don't hook up a pond and use a pond. You can run into that situation, I have never seen (inaudible) 3rd and 4th pond we hit (inaudible). Golf Course Construction Committee July 29, 1996 Page 15 then do we have valuing or head gating or (inaudible). Morrow. The next issue Brad? Watson: This goes back to (Inaudible) Kingsford: I don't think that we can- legitimately, it is the same project (Inaudible) Morrow. What would have to be done is your prepare all of those change orders and I will present them at the City Council meeting. What you do is make them in five copies in advance so that each of the Councilman and the Mayor can review it and discuss it and we will authorize as a Council the change orders by virtue of (inaudible). If the Council concurs they will authorize (inaudible) So if there is anything that is incorrect you will get that information between you and Brad so that the Council only sees the absolute correct of what it is we are doing. There is no need to have 2 or 3 presentations (inaudible). Watson: For the drainage the (inaudible) Kingsford: That was a comment that I wanted to throw in, I am not real comfortable (inaudible) let's see where we are with those numbers. Again, if I am reading your front page correctly, talking about (inaudible) there is some additional back here Watson: That is saying that we did (inaudible). Kingsford: If I am looking at this page right then (inaudible) and taken this out. So we need to have $15,603 and what I am suggesting to you that (inaudible) and I know there is at least $2000 from White and Marshall and I am very comfortable there is $10,000 additional in this (inaudible) because of the additional $50 (inaudible). I would hate to see us take those drains out (inaudible) put them in and rebuild them. Fedrizzi: I have a question about that is you are talking about (inaudible) doesn't it come out of Kingsford: One question that maybe I have, Patsy makes a good point, how about Charlie's and Frank's Fedrizzi: Or Cloverdale? Kingsford: Well Cloverdale will be alright because they are (inaudible) what about Charlie's what we have paid Charlie and what we paid Frank Sorrel. Golf Course Construction Committee July 29, 1996 Page 16 Fedrizzi: (Inaudible) Kingsford: Gillingham will be $800 and some dollars. Ewing: Another thing is I am to not real sure, you are not real sure of all of these budget numbers yet are you. I see that, I guess the pump you have confirmed up and actually (inaudible). The pipe from pond to pond I guess we firmed that up. The seeding, did we ever firm that up with the seed? How much money was the seed? We took, that was something that was supposed to be firmed up. I know it is firmed up but it is something that we need for this budget. Right now we all took at wild guess at $9000. Those are things we need to know, we can't sit here and work on this budget and have some things in the electrical we have never firmed up right? Watson: I don't even know what that is (inaudible) Ewing: I don't know, maybe we did firm it up, because Silver Creek did they do the pump station, who is doing the pump station? Watson: Hillside, through Cloverdale. Ewing: Hillside, alright, well Cloverdale is doing the pump station, they don't have an electrical figured in do they? Watson: (Inaudible) (Discussion Inaudible) Kingsford: (Inaudible) because after that point in this budget clearly it was $350,000 and then (Inaudible) I know we bumped that from $600 to $650. So we need to budget in more money in this year's budget. Morrow. Well in this year's budget (inaudible) in the preliminary workshop it was a guessed amount because we went from the $850,000 on Will's budget that you and I had done a year ago and his question to me was (inaudible) something like $450,000 or thereabouts so we get all of this stuff put together. So, however it works out. But that (inaudible) Kingsford: What I am suggesting is that it is not fair to a guy that builds out there that we charge $650 on the first (inaudible) it should go to golf course construction (Inaudible). Morrow: I understand that, the deal is that I will get from Gary the exact number of lots multiplied by $650 and that is in fact what the charge is, no mater how (inaudible) Okay, Golf Course Construction Committee July 29, 1996 Page 17 where we are at now is I need to resolve the exact financial issues, determine exactly what it is we have got in terms of dollars. I need to ask Janice the question of how she arrived at this off set, do we or do we not have (inaudible) and then from that we will make the decision in terms of drainage and (inaudible) is that fair enough? Ewing: I think we need a few other things, I think we need to confirm our seed price. We need to confirm (Inaudible) we have that. Electrical, we are not sure that or what that covers. That was just a (inaudible) I think we are not sure whether that is in Cloverdale's pump price or not or you think it is? Watson: It appears that it is but it is not spelled out. Ewing: So we have the pump taken care of, we have the piping taken care of. We need the seed, we will leave the electrical as a budget number then of $1300 I guess, it sounds like that is good. The rough grading we need to take care of. We kind of guessed on those canal culverts and the head walls. I don't know if those are good budget numbers. Morrow. The culvert was the deal that I signed (inaudible) it was $432 or something. Well we need to find out (inaudible) it appears based on what it was we bought that number is going to be adequate so far. I think we bought 40 feet it was $432 or $23 or something like that. Kingsford: What about what we bought before the irrigation went in (inaudible) I know but we haven't taken that out of this budget either. Morrow. No, but is that maybe some of the stuff that is in the and one thing we are trying to determine from (inaudible) Fedrizzi: That doesn't matter because that is what we had, we have never been given any more. Kingsford: If I knew, I think I knew (inaudible) total and we take (Inaudible). Ewing: That is what I think, I keep thinking that we need to start with the number that we dot. Kingsford: If we could find out how much money we have (inaudible) Morrow. That is what I am going to try to get to with her. My notes say (inaudible) the total in terms of the fees, I need to get the total in terms of the two deals with respect to White Reidal and Golf View and the totals in terms of the donations so that we have a total Golf Course Construction Committee July 29, 1996 Page 18 revenue that we have to work here (inaudible) Patsy has control of the expenses there. (Inaudible) Morrow: That is correct, but the one that we are getting from the City is (inaudible) hers straightforward (inaudible). Fedrizzi: What I would be happy to do if it would be helpful and Janice is behind us (inaudible) is to go through files. There are only certain people authorized for any of the expenditures to date right. So can't you just go through all of those stacks of files and (inaudible) go through the stacks of files and take out what is authorized and make copies of it or whatever. Lovan: I need one thing, on our sprinkler system the (inaudible) put them right on the property line (inaudible) insides of the golf course. Morrow: (Inaudible) are you talking about utility easement, historically the only utility easement that you would have would be on the lots themselves, not on the golf course. Kingsford: The only easement we would be talking about with (inaudible) possibility of drainage (inaudible) and the other one would have been I think sewer and water (inau,dible) those would be the only easements (Discussion Inaudible) Lovan: I guess right now I am wondering where to lay the sprinkler heads right on the property line (inaudible) cable T.V. come in there and cut it off. Morrow: Cable T.V. can't be on the golf course property. They can only be on the individual lots from the subdivisions. There is not a utility easement that I am aware of that is on this property that (inaudible) Watson: (Inaudible) Ewing: Let me, can I finish this so (inaudible) there is a lot of stuff, I don't think we are close here. This my opinion and I want you guys to (inaudible). (Discussion Inaudible) Ewing: I think if you want to go ahead and move in a couple of feet that is sure a neat idea on the what if. But took at the flip side of that, what if all of the sudden now you have Golf Course Construction Committee July 29, 1996 Page 19 people building fences which never makes sense but they are in two foot and you have got, I think the 6 inches is enough. You start moving in and the thing I am concerned about, well I think 6 inches is plenty and that is my (inaudible) Kingsford: I agree with you 100% because the first thing that is going to happen if you move that in two feet you will see the property stakes come out two feet and we will have lost four feet from each fairway. (Inaudible) and the other side of the coin is I just listened to a guy that was out there gripe about dry spots. Those guys will be griping about dry spots if you (inaudible). Ewing: A couple other things, so you think I heard Walt say we are going to have a meeting Monday but we need to have, like we went and went, but we need an exact price on the seed (inaudible). Lovan: (Inaudible) Ewing: We need to do that, we have got to get, I am agreeing with you, we have got to firm up that number and for some reason we have never been able to firm it up. And we are getting, we keep narrowing down our list but we need that. The other thing that I guess I kind of want to talk about we are talking about writing change orders to contracts and I understand there are no contracts. Is that right Brad? Watson: They were sent out and signed by Cloverdale and Silver Creek came back and (inaudible) signatures. Ewing: What is wrong with the signature sheet? Watson: (Inaudible) Corporate President was the only one authorized to sign unless there is some (inaudible) some other officer (Inaudible) Ewing: That is Cloverdale Nursery? Watson: Terry signed and he is Vice President. Ewing: What are you going to do when Cloverdale throws this back and says we are too cheep get somebody else to do it. Because it is an illegal bid isn't it? Watson: Cloverdale's? Ewing: Yes, didn't Terry sign the bid? This is a hell of a time for the attorney to come in play here. Golf Course Construction Committee July 29, 1996 Page 20 Watson: Well there are three other conditions it has to be notarized, the Corporate Secretary has to attest it, Cloverdale (inaudible) if they have some (inaudible) Ewing: I think I know exactly who it is, I think it was their attorney that is not well. Which is real, in my experience I cannot believe that we are going to hold up a ballgame in this tight of a schedule over a signature that needs to come from a president that is probably not in town. Kingsford: (Inaudible) Ewing: I don't even think that is an issue, I think the issue is that you have a bid bond saying that they will guarantee your bid that isn't even legal then because Hunt's never signed did he? (Inaudible) Ewing: I think the issue is, (inaudible) Watson: I asked, I went t Cloverdale today and I asked Terry (Inaudible) to see (inaudible). Ewing: I guess it is disturbing to me that we don't have contracts. I hope we are going to have, there is too much work to be done. I guess those are some of the things I want to talk about that by Monday we have got to have, I mentioned earlier I had talked to Terry, I called him and asked him what is going on, what is the problem where are you going, what do you need. He didn't go into a great deal of detail with me on the contracts other than he said they weren't alright and I said I would ask. I done near coming over here pegged that when you said that that the signature sheets were wrong. The other thing was he felt real strong that he needs to start on one, two and three and he needs staked. So we said we were going to do that when, I guess t kind of think we ought to kind of set a schedule here and start rolling on it. Fedrizzi: If we don't it is just going tp go on and on. Kingsford: (Inaudible) If he drags is his feet on getting that done let's just get (inaudible) Watson: I know I am tired of getting calls (inaudible) Ewing: Well I think it is urgent to them because I think, you know what I think if and I am not talking for Cloverdale, but I tell you what, I think that we are playing with fire at this time of year with prices that we have let sit and rumble on and no contracts and anything and if you think they are going to lose any sleep telling this committee and that golf course to Golf Course Construction Committee July 29, 1996 Page 21 go to hell you are thinking wrong. The minute it starts costing them a bunch of money which it will, they have, and we have talked and talked about this as a committee and I know I am preaching to the choir here but we will push them in a corner that we won't keep them in. Then we will all be sitting here next year saying well we have to (inaudible) mowing weeds and we have to (inaudible). I hate to be the drum beater but we cannot (inaudible). (Discussion Inaudible) Ewing: But the thing we got Wally is land planing is not the issue with me it is the irrigation. We have got to get Lovan: (Inaudible) Ewing: How did we come up with these out of the (inaudible) we never did get back to this, we are going to buy the parts or we are (inaudible) talking about that are we going to allow them being Cloverdale Nursery, Hillside to furnish parts as they need it if Silver Creek hasn't got them there? Watson: That was one of my questions (inaudible) the next couple of days. I don't know (inaudible) who amongst us is going to be the person they come to and give them (inaudible) Fedrizzi: Who is authorized to do that? It would have to be Walt wouldn't it? Ewing: Isn't there some dollar thing that Kingsford: I think that Walt needs to authorize us (inaudible). I would suggest that maybe if you are not totally (inaudible) you would be the one (inaudible) handle on it. Let's see if we can't get Walt to authorize you the nickel and dime stuff to make those so the thing moves along. You have got (inaudible) Ewing: I agree with him doing it but really somebody on the project and this is going to go the whole circle on the management deal needs to be there knowing that we are not paying fora 25 dollar valve that we already got ten of them over here that their gofer couldn't find. So I think that is kind of hard for Brad to be saying well yes you need another valve and you don't have it then I will go ahead and get it. Fedrizzi: Well there is only one person that is going to be out there that falls then on Lovan: Why don't Brad and I Golf Course Construction Committee July 29, 1996 Page 22 Kingsford: (Inaudible) to stock pile (inaudible) that is a long way away. I think you need to put it on site (inaudible) Ewing: Why don't you talk to the sprinkler people and see if Hillside will (inaudible) coordinate with Silver Creek and get out what they need not have a bunch of (inaudible) and where they need it and I think the way to drive that is say fine if you won't (inaudible) I will have it all delivered to my house and (inaudible) and they won't like that. The important thing is once Silver Creek does it somebody needs to be responsible to see if you get it. I have no reason to believe that they will cheat you but I do know that when you get an order like this you could mess up a lot of your order. A month from now when you are finishing and are short one whole (inaudible) Silver Creek is going to say you signed for them we delivered them and that just means they are telling you in a nice way to go to hell. But it will highly surprise me if you count that you don't find something that they have shorted you not intentionally but it just happens. So I think that is very important that I guess, (inaudible). Another thing that I heard, I think that with this constant, since we are really starting to roll we want to start, your said the sprinklers are starting to (inaudible) one of the things that we talked about we can't do anything until we have water. But what do you think about having them (inaudible) the existing system and flush their lines and stuff they will only be able to use the water out of that system, valve it. We use that system through the day and then at night turn a couple of valves and you irrigate at night. Because I don't know how long a lead item we have on this pump station but we have done nothing on the building, we have done nothing, that is the wet well and everything. I am seeing that being a four or five week thing so if we can, even after we plant and I guess I am asking this but in my mind 1 am thinking we irrigate all day (inaudible) when you are not irrigating the golf course and all night we irrigate the golf course. by turning some valves. I think I don't know what it costs but I don't think it costs that much and (inaudible) we need to be Kingsford: I think that is very legitimate to say Lovan: (Inaudible) Ewing: Tap into, you know I kind of wondered (inaudible) a lot of valves there, the only thing that I was concerned about and that is part of the reason I asked earlier was is we do have enough irrigation water in storage well we are going to have to because you are going to have nothing when we (inaudible) Although right now they are really going to pour the water on that new planting way more than you probably do with mature sod. Kingsford: I am not so sure that we can't get the water for all of that land (inaudible) Ewing: I think we probably can, I Golf Course Construction Committee July 29, 1996 Page 23 Kingsford: I think we can have that all turned in, all we have to do is (inaudible) Lovan: (Inaudible) Ewing: Just crank the valve up, probably. That is probably (inaudible) Another thing I thought about talking about irrigation is we talked this winter and talked about it and I don't know whatever happened. Did we ever get our, I assume that we got all of our irrigation problems taken care of with our neighbors. As far as those farmers and moving the head gate. Kingsford: So far as I know we have, now we are going to have (inaudible) I think we are going to end up (inaudible) Lovan: (Inaudible) Kingsford: The only place that wouldn't be the case is where it crosses (inaudible) and that is just one place. I don't care but (inaudible). Ewing: I guess the reason I brought that up is I couldn't remember what happened to number two is (inaudible) needed that something in this budget. Kingsford: (Inaudible) where number 8 those two culverts are (inaudible) so I can't see us (inaudible) I don't see the golf course needing more than that at this point. You never can get all (inaudible) that is how those culverts go. Ewing: Another thing when I asked Terry, I guess I kind of (inaudible) I kind of got myself coming the wrong way with him was is I called to find out what was going on and put the push on him. And he threw it right back, hey I can't do this and I can't do this. I said can you think of anything that will speed it up. One of the things he said that was a little bit (inaudible) pre-mix that vita bark whatever it is on top. We thought it was going to be in and then we thought it was out, now it is back in. He is saying that is one thing he thinks and I asked him, are you going to charge us more and he seemed to think, he said no but he seemed to think it would save him a lot of time a lot of labor, get planted quicker if in fact they can hold that (inaudible). I said well I will ask because again I am getting concerned about missing this August plant. Kingsford: If we don't save money, I think (Inaudible) go ahead and (inaudible) is it still going to be on the top, it will be slightly different (inaudible). Our only discussion, I think Wally's any my comment at the last meeting was it might save us money (inaudible). Lovan: I want to ask you something John, if the quote was (Inaudible) Golf Course Construction Committee July 29, 1996 Page 24 Ewing: Let me see if I can Watson: Well just by raking it in (Inaudible) Ewing: Now, see I took it that we weren't going to rake it in, we were going to spade it in. But. see that is where, maybe Terry is confused because I am confused. I am not saying Terry would be confused because I am but I really got mixed up on that because I thought that we had it in there and then I thought you come back and said you did not want vita bark in there. That is the way I took it from Brad so that is where we were going to get the (inaudible) straight sand because that is where it ended up. Lovan: (Inaudible) Ewing: So I think that Cloverdale was going to come back to us with the (inaudible) to take the vita bark out. Fedrizzi: Is it time to have Terry come to our meeting Monday? We talk about what Terry thinks and what we thought we heard. Ev~ring: But Terry then was at the meeting at the golf course that I heard, I sat right there and he was going to give Brad a deduct for no vita bark and I heard you say well I don't want it all out I want it on top just spaded in. So I think that is where Cloverdale came back and said nowwait a minute do you want it in or out and I guess Terry called me and said what did you hear at that meeting. I thought, test, I heard you were leaving it in. I think he called you and or no I think I passed that on to you at that meeting it was left in. That is what I heard spade it in. So that is where the no deduct come from. It doesn't matter to me I don't even know what the stuff is. Lovan: It is nothing more than fine ground bark and all you do is rake it in there (Inaudible) Kingsford: (Inaudible) I guess that what we need to do is touch base with Terry and then if we are talking about (inaudible) that is what (inaudible). If it is not going to be deduct than (inaudible) and spread it. Lovan: (Inaudible) Ewing: That is just, I am just passing that on as a suggestion. He had to pick it up and my first question was is it going to cost us more money to speed this up and he said no. I will knock, I will save on the labor, but Teny is still thinking he is going to put this much in and spade it in. We need to get that straight then because I know that Terry is thinking the way I am thinking about it because I convinced him that is what I heard too. Or I told him that Golf Course Construction Committee July 29, 1996 Page 25 is what I heard and he said that is what he heard also. Fedrizzi; (Inaudible) Ewing: And I think maybe, again I don't know if the committee needs to meet with Terry but definitely we need to have the construction crew meet with him and say this is what we want. We are kind of trying, in my opinion putting him in a bad place because we have Brad's side of the bids, that documents this and then we have another side of saying let's do this and this. As long as we are in agreement that we are not going, that whatever you (inaudible) then we will live by which is certainly fine with me. (Inaudible) Kingsford: Well I was unaware that problem existed but thinking back I can remember (inaudible) Ewing: Yes there was and we tried to clarify it at that time and that is what I got out of it. Again I am not saying I heard it right, I am just saying that is what I left with. Fedrizzi: Well that is the problem with the committee, especially if he is being talked to by several people that would (inaudible) businessman (inaudible). Lovan: (Inaudible) Ewing: I am just asking the question he asked when I asked him aquestion/ Fedrizzi: So are you going to set up a meeting? Ewing: Should we have a get together with Terry, maybe not of the committee but whoever wants to attend at the golf course. Again, coming back to this schedule I am hearing that we are starting the sprinkler lines, I am hearing Terry saying that we already got some land planed you said. So, as soon as that sprinkler goes through there we are going to have to (inaudible). Has Derek started his greens (inaudible) they are just roughed in. Kingsford: Is he done roughing greens now? Lovan: (Inaudible) my original thought on the greens is if we have the money ,(Inaudible) Ewing: That was the way it was bid, that was the intent. If we didn't need them we didn't need them we already had them. Kingsford: So the $15,603 is just the drain the on the green (Inaudible). Golf Course Construction Committee July 29, 1996 Page 26 Lovan: (Inaudible) Kingsford: But you have on almost every green, you have (inaudible) Ewing: If feel that we should definitely keep it in, it appears to me unless something really jumps up and gets us that we are going to make our budget (Inaudible). That is the way I feel and I guess I just feel like we should do it, we have already (inaudible) by not putting the French Drain in, which I don't feel bad about that. Not being ~ golfer but I think that most golfers can put up with a little less (inaudible) that is where they think the game is won or lost. I don't know, I heard that. Lovan: Right now I see another (inaudible) it has to be done, (Inaudible). Ewing: To me that should just be put in that budget of that $25,000 for the rough grading. Lovan: (Inaudible) Ewing: I think that is what that $25,000 budget is for. Lovan: (Inaudible) Ewing: I see that road is getting cut in and everything, did we ask if we could have that? Lovan: (Inaudible) (End of Tape)