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HomeMy WebLinkAbout96Sept23 Golf Course Committee MinsGOLF COURSE CONSTRUCTION COMMITTEE SEPTEMBER 23, 1996 The regular meeting of the Golf Course Construction Committee was called to order by Chairman Walt Morrow at 4:00 P.M.: MEMBERS PRESENT: Patsy Fedrizzi, John Ewing, Wally Lovan, Brad Watson, Jake Cook: Morrow: (Inaudible) Cook: Well things are going well, they are starting to come together. We see that (inaudible) first five holes (Inaudible) and right now we will be ready to start seeding the number six and number seven in the morning. Our irrigation contractor is finishing with number 9 today so other than a few more days I think the golf course construction will be pretty well wrapped up. Morrow: (Inaudible) Any questions (inaudible) Watson: You guys confirmed (Inaudible) Cook: Wally was out there today (Inaudible), I have enough to put about eight tenths to a foot on the top of that pipe, the outlet pipe all the way around it. So I think you have plenty of coverage there now. Just one thing, we had some vandalism this weekend, the car drove through number 3 and number 5 green. Wally's guy that has been taking over the watering for us fixed it and reseeded it but that is two Saturdays in a row now. I don't know what we are going to do about it. Kingsford: We talked to (inaudible) Morrow: The only way they can access that is off of (inaudible) off of Black Cat (inaudible). Lovan: (Inaudible) Morrow: John, do you have any questions? Ewing: Brad, for our last week's meeting we talked about some of these additional things. Did Grant or Wally pass these onto you and what made me think of it was is on that additional dirt and stuff I didn't grab the right piece of paper but it seems like we agreed on an amount for that last week did we. What happened on that on the pond, raising the pond? Watson: I think we had Ewing: $1500 that is what I think. Golf Course Construction Committee September 23, 1996 Page 2 Watson: I don't think we used that much, I haven't turned in my billing, today we were. just pretty much fine grading (inaudible) we were at Ewing: Right here extra work seeding and grading that is for the pond was $1500. I guess what my question was is kind of not so much to Jake is there were a number of things talked about last week and that was one of them that were you brought up to speed at all? Cook: I think a few of them, (inaudible) but I think that was the main one. Ewing: Well we had an issue also with the over flow of the ponds (inaudible) I didn't know if that was something, because that is something that depending on where we go could (inaudible) on this last part of seeding. Are we going to seed anyway regardless and then we are going to go back through the new seeding? Cook: The only suggestion I had to Brad was if we still had an option of going down the side of No. 6 fairway I could leave one swath unseeded though there and we could excavate and go down the side. Eventually I can seed it all, at this point we have been pushing so hard and we did have the completion date of the end of the month, I really, there has been no decision so we have just pressed on. It is finished and fine graded and at this point I am ready to seed in the morning. I figured if there would have been some change in information of where we could go with that pipe (inaudible) as far as I know nothing has changed has it Brad? Watson: No Morrow: (Inaudible} Watson: There are about four different options floating around. One of the things that was originally thought that we would go down number six and north along Black Cat (inaudible). But partly because ponds are littler than what (inaudible) On the original drawing I used to do the tape out (inaudible) But we have got a couple of other options and I guess you talked about them a little bit last week. Ewing: We did, did Grant fill you in at all? Watson: I haven't talked to Grant at all. Ewing: We actually talked about, that is kind of bad we kind of took a week off, see what happens when you don't make it. Watson: I did talk to Jake (inaudible). Golf Course Construction Committee September 23, 1996 Page 3 Ewing: Well actually what we talked, Cook: We were going to go back out at pond number 3, straight would be west towards Black Cat and pick up the drain ditch there someplace. Lovan: That one plan that you had there (inaudible) Watson: Yes, I touched base with Walt a little bit about that too. Well I will just get my story out beforehand. Tanner met with me the Friday before last and wants to I don't think this is going to fly myself but he wants to assume half of the swales all around the fairways he has them all over the place (inaudible) is that part of any of our agreements? Morrow: Not part of any that I was party to. Watson: I don't hardly think so either. Anyway, he wants (inaudible) it might be on the Ashford No. 1 plat I think that is on there. But these future parts (inaudible) that is what he (inaudible). What I wanted to talk to him about is he is going to pipe the irrigation ditch that was there straight west of the farmer across the road. He was saying (inaudible) swing: That is the ditch that ran down where all of the poplars are at, that concrete ditch. Watson: but I think I kind of agree with Walt the less we have to deal with them the better off we might be. At least that is the way I am kind of (inaudible) Morrow: I guess my personal preference would be (inaudible) is to keep our stuff completely separated (inaudible) Lovan: I don't think (inaudible) Watson: (Inaudible) what we are talking about is having (inaudible) two different pipes. (Inaudible) I guess the option you guys were talking about is just going straight west out of pond 3 and hand building pond 4 which I guess would work.. But then (inaudible) 500 to 600 feet to existing drain. We have to use (inaudible) and we are not going to be able to (inaudible) But we could get it as far as the west boundary (inaudible) Ewing: Pond 3 is the one on the 8th and 9th the big one there on the south. Well he has the map there. (Inaudible) did we ever take and shoot this pond, we are headed down to this one (inaudible) Watson: Yes, it doesn't show it but (inaudible) here and here. Golf Course Construction Committee September 23, 1996 Page 4 Ewing: Is that even an option to let it run down here and still set the outlet pipe high enough to keep this up full and still (inaudible) the water? That is what the problem is, I can see it running down, or a potential problem. Watson: This one should be higher than this one. That is the way it was designed to be. Morrow: So this pond is higher than this one and all the waste out (inaudible) down here simply needs to be higher than this connected (inaudible). Watson (Inaudible) and we have this Cook: Do you have the elevation of pond number 4 Brad? Watson: I do, but not on this (inaudible). Ewing: Right now Walt what his plan coming out of this is to come down that fairway and then clear down and all of that red is (inaudible) the one that has not been figured (inaudible). If we come out this pond back here we have got to do another road crossing with all of that extensive (inaudible). Then we have to come there, that is why we tried to back clear up to here (inaudible). I wouldn't think we had any problem, if it worked if by your part Brad, the engineering part if it worked. I would think we could get out of our planning over here and I don't think that we would ever have trouble getting permission to go down that easement. Watson: Ido it would just take some time. Ewing: Just take some time, but that is something we can do in the Spring, we are not tearing any grass up or anything. Morrow: (Inaudible) once we get permission we go down here, ifi this is possible from an engineering stand point in my mind what happens is that okay we put this line in to here, this juncture and then we cap off and leave it for the time being. Because we are not filling these ponds this summer (inaudible). So all we would have to do is quite trenching and put the line into here and get permission from ACHD to run from here to here. Ewing: There was a question last weekend that none of us had the answer to though is if that drain ditch would in fact handle the water or was it Watson: (Inaudible) 6 feet deep. Morrow: Is this the (inaudible) for this property do you suppose? Does anybody know? Golf Course Construction Committee September 23, 1996 Page 5 Lovan: This would be the informal drain (inaudible) Cook: Is that where the existing ditch cross Black Cat? What are you talking about tying into. Watson: No it goes farther north. Cook: What are you going to tie into there, I have never seen anything. Watson: Well there is actually a culvert Cook: Going under the road? Watson: Yes, this is a ditch (inaudible) Cook: You have to go through those trees and all that stuff there that entry on Baxter's place or would we go right up along side of that in the barrow or the easement I guess. I am not saying that it won't work. I am just pointing out some things that are along that edge between what I think where you are talking about coming out of the golf course and the point you are talking about connecting to. There is all that planting there and all those big trees and you start trying to go through the middle of that stuff which can't be done. Watson: Well there is a fairly wide area between the pavement. Cook: If we can go through that. Ewing: That is the easement that Brad is talking about. Cook: We can do that, okay. Lovan: (Inaudible) Morrow: My preference would be if this is at all possible it is the shortest way, the easiest way and it is all on our property. Ewing: And it has to be closer to the (inaudible) again I don't know (inaudible) where we are at on our footage but if we go back to that existing or the original plans down there on whatever hole that was, that is a lot of added pipe. Morrow: It looks to me like you would get there with only about a couple hundred feet extra Pipe. Golf Course Construction Committee September 23, 1996 Page 6 Watson: (Inaudible) Morrow: Well Brad why don't you confirm that information and also confirm your calculations on the pipe. It looks that by doing it this way and saving this and transferring it down here you end up with plus 200 feet that you have to (inaudible). Ewing: I think we need to verify that other pond elevation too to make sure we don't run that down and dead head it in there and have it flood half that side. Watson: The other thing I was going to mention is Tanner (inaudible) and they went out and (inaudible). Ewing: Is that something you think you will do soon. If I understood what you said that Wednesday and Thursday you are going to be going through there on that between 8 and 9 Wednesday or Thursday, whatever you said. So that is something that we either need to know we are going to stop or should get in there or do we just have Jake go ahead and seed right on through? Morrow: I guess my answer to that would be is that (inaudible) we don't have that answer and we have him seed through (inaudible) we have the summer time heat (inaudible). As I understand it (inaudible) Fedrizzi: Are there two seedings this one and then another? Or is this it? Morrow: Well they have been seeding (inaudible) and they will continue to seed and by weeks end they will be (inaudible) Fedrizzi: But that is all new though, I mean you are just talking about seeding the whole thing once? Morrow: Yes Watson: You go across it twice. Fedrizzi: For some reason I thought we did this seeding now and then a seeding in the spring. Ewing: Only if it dies. Fedrizzi: That is what we talked about, plan B. Golf Course Construction Committee September 23, 1996 Page 7 (Discussion Inaudible) Cook: In that area there (inaudible) in between a tee box and a (inaudible) so it is not like it is going to be in an area of a (inaudible) Ewing: Actually you are going right across the fairway right in front of a green on A. Look at that Jake, we are talking about going right in front of Cook: (Inaudible) I think that shoot second nine in there Brad, I don't know what your beginning (inaudible) or an 864? I think this (Inaudible) I don't know what your (inaudible) before that, if that helps you at all. (Inaudible) Ewing: (Inaudible) You know what driving out there, driving around I am not sure that we can't come out of that end (inaudible) I am not sure this whole thing isn't swung a little bit this way. Just thinking about when we drove up there, well you are up there (inaudible) maybe we can get on that site and then we wouldn't be in the fairway at all. Watson: (Inaudible) Morrow: The other thing is (inaudible) you only have (inaudible) laying perpendicular to the trench. Cook: We would have to go under it now matter where we go, the main line it is running north and south right there. Ewing: Well maybe if we can get something worked out maybe we can get it thrown in there before anyway, before you seed. Morrow: (Inaudible) Cook: I will be seeding on 6 and 7 all day tomorrow. Morrow: Any other questions that you (inaudible) Ewing: I would like to pass right now and let me think here a bit. Morrow: Patsy? Fedrizzi: How are we on the budget, is this it, is this where we are, this one from Brad? Watson: Except for some of the miscellaneous (Inaudible) should be added in. I did get Golf Course Construction Committee September 23, 1996 Page 8 a call from (inaudible) Hillside saying that there were two laterals (inaudible) he said but on the other hand we have 12,000 feet of wire left or something. (Inaudible) Morrow: Did they forget to wire something or do we have way too much wire? (Inaudible) so basically then we are all in pretty decent shape here with the exception of (inaudible) Watson: (Inaudible) Morrow: He has not talked to me since I was gone. Ewing: Different numbers as far as? Watson: Well we had (inaudible) and then I guess (inaudible) Ewing: I didn't talk to him other than in the meeting, well I did too I talked to him the day after because we revisited the issue of going back and doing that right again. Basically I think it was left, I don't think it was, it was left that I felt like that some of the stuff that needed to be done should be existing golf course funds on some of those valves and stuff, we were making the thing better we had it dug up. Anyway we kind of hashed it around and finally it came up that he was going to do it the way it was drawn with the boxes left in. And he was going to try and plug some of that leakage in that existing screen box. And he discussed that he thought there was way more water than he should have ever had to tend with. And I talked to him and that was on Tuesday, Wednesday morning I called him and told him to do it the way it was shown and if he thought that he needed more money for some of the de-watering or something he needed to discuss it with us. I never told him yes or no or indifferent but kind of (inaudible) ducks in line and tell us why you think you should have more money. That is where it was left. Watson: That is what I asked him (inaudible). Ewing: Come to this meeting? Watson: Well last week when I was gone. Ewing: Actually he did not have any numbers that I remember. He basically said where he was at and then we got off on some of the problems that instead of just, I thought we had it solved once but then we keep running into more problems. Like I said after he left Grant and Wally and I revisited the thing and basically came to the decision that we were just going to have him build it the way it was. Patch it, plug it, set the building up there where we could get the pumps in. And I have not been by, has he been working on it? Has anybody called him? Golf Course Construction Committee September 23, 1996 Page 9 Fedrizzi: Who is supposed to? Ewing: I guess I am supposed to, I did not. I should have drove by and seen, but we need that done. He hasn't done anything on it. Morrow: (Inaudible) until the water was out. Ewing: Oh yes and he was told on Wednesday morning that wasn't an option. We needed it, I guess I am kind of driving that train a little harder I am very concerned with this new planning and only have the old system running the existing golf course and the other nine. I would like to see that building done and see that new pump station sitting there in case we have something go down. That was something that I think, did you get an update on that pump station from Silver Creek. Is it in town, it should be town (inaudible). I think it was right before labor day that, it was either right before or right after I had talked to Cloverdale and said get it ordered and get it coming. I think it was a three week lead item then. So we are in our third week right now so it has got to be real close to (inaudible). I think you and I (inaudible) about that Walt and so it should be coming. So a week ago when I talked to Bob Frost my message to him was get it built, get is standing there (inaudible). I will call him tonight or if I don't I will get him in the morning and tell him that we want it done. Fedrizzi: In this budget if we, like we are right here it looks like we have $20,000 still to play with, is that what that looks like to you Brad? Is that (inaudible) or are we going to do trees and stuff? Are we going to do anything (inaudible) Morrow: I think the answer is we are struggling to end up, we were anticipating something less than (inaudible) in the last couple of weeks. In August (inaudible) but that is rapidly (inaudible). Fedrizzi: So basically what we are going to end up with is grass (inaudible) when we are all said and done. Morrow: At this juncture (inaudible) Fedrizzi: So we need some more funds? Morrow: It would be nice to have them. Fedrizzi: US Bank is still showing some interest but they do have some questions and that is do we now have a club house, is there anything new on the club house? Do you have access to that, did they build access to get into that during this? Golf Course Construction Committee September 23, 1996 Page 10 Morrow: It is not up to us to do that, (inaudible) they didn't (inaudible) but they will have access there (inaudible) obviously that is (inaudible) sometime next (inaudible) Fedrizzi: And then Wally is there anything, any plans at that point that you want me to share with US Bank I guess, I don't want to tell them something that is incorrect. Lovan: Hopefully when they start this road and (inaudible) Fedrizzi: You are thinking it could be within the next couple of years. Morrow: (Inaudible) obviously if they start making their cuts, (inaudible) rough cutting this winter it is fairly safe to assume that they are going to have their road (inaudible) on schedule. Given that being the case it would be (inaudible) operation. Fedrizzi: I want to quote you however you want me to quote you. Ewing: Would it be fair to quote that if in fact they do the road and in fact you are going to start it when the road is done. Wouldn't it be reasonable to think that it is in some kind of design stage and I don't know does the City make Wally go through and get a permit, I would assume and everything. I know you don't do this everyday Wally but if you want to start in the spring you had better be getting to the City right now. They are not that bad but what t am saying is if it is going to tip over a donation of a sizable amount it sounds like something that I think they would want to hear. Is that it is in design. I think if you are going to wait until the road is all done and then you start on your design and go through the City ybu can plan on next winter and I am not picking on the City it just takes a long time to get through all of that. Morrow: I think realistically on a commercial project in the City it is 60 days in the process (inaudible) Lovan: I would like to see everything fall together at the right time with the (inaudible) Fedrizzi: August (inaudible) Lovan: (Inaudible) 18 holes of golf under the present conditions. We don't have any parking there. Morrow: Well I have to say Wally the goal is that you want to be open with the club house (inaudible) small promotional projects that would indicate the design stage ought to be starting here fairly quickly and there is a bit of a gamble in terms of dollars (inaudible) Turnbull comes through with this road in June you ought to be submitting for building Golf Course Construction Committee September 23, 1996 Page 11 permit somewhere in January to get through that process which would make a building permit available somewhere in the first part of April. And I would think by April it would be real easy to tell what the (inaudible) and what was done in terms of road up (inaudible) at that juncture (inaudible) starts or waits. The money in terms of the (inaudible) and you would only be liable for the deposit (inaudible) necessarily have to (inaudible). I suppose a valid question is (inaudible) is there an impact fee involved (inaudible). Fedrizzi: Do we have our signature hole? Was that to be what it was originally intended without the geese? Lovan: (Inaudible) Fedriui: (Inaudible) does anybody else know what I am talking about? Ewing: Yes I know what you are talking about, and we, I don't know. The one hole that you were going to pick I think that right now your signature hole would be the one you take and have all your carts looking over seven and 8 or sometimes, I don't know. Fedrizzi: You are talking about the one that (inaudible) the island. Ewing: What has happened on that I think is that now we had, Charlie had that all mounted up and now that has all been flattened out. So I don't think that is going to be the one you are gong to take (inaudible). So you are not going to do that where people hit off from the club house and hit to the island. You are going to have that. Lovan: It will not be elevated (inaudible) Fedrizzi: I know at one time you said that maybe that wasn't going to work because of the geese and the problems you were having there. But you are going to have that. Ewing: I think the kind of back up what you say, I would say that if you have a fabulous design team and you have a great deal of guidance and fortitude that if you can do a project like what I think you are going to do in that club house from a through to a finish in less than a year and that is what you have got you will be doing really good. That is tough, a year just flies by when you are sitting here in September saying you will be done by August of the next year. To start with the architect or whoever draws it to get it through the City you will have to have him redraw at least once after he draws something different than you tell him to. That just works automatic. Morrow: The travesty is that (inaudible) you per near have to redraw it again (inaudible). Golf Course Construction Committee September 23, 1996 Page 12 Ewing: I think that is exaggerating but it is not exaggerating 11 month turn around again if you can turn it around and open the doors and sell your first round of golf out of it for the 18 holes I think that would be good. I guarantee if you wanted me to do it I would be panicking right now. I wouldn't say I couldn't do it but I would be panicking. Tomorrow morning I would have an architect sitting in either in his office I would be sitting there or he would be sitting in mine one or the other. Fedrizzi: Well what are you going to be doing tomorrow at about 8? (Inaudible) Ewing: You can talk to Jim Shearer tonight over at the joint (inaudible) Morrow: Does that answer your question as best we can? Fedrizzi: Yes that is what I needed thank you. Morrow: What was the significance of the 5:00 time line? Fedrizzi: The school board is in here and apparently they had a meeting and they all got to be part of it through this. Morrow: (Inaudible) Watson: (Inaudible) even though they have (inaudible) Fedrizzi: So you need some money left in there. Cook: I think you are going to have some return on the irrigation parts. But it just got to the point where overall the take off was not accurate, the drawing wasn't that bad I don't think. But there was so much of the plan that wasn't engineered like pond sizes. There was never a dimension that we had to cut them to. I didn't know, we could have done some things differently probably if I would have known (inaudible) lay in there at the time which I guess I never thought about it until we got down to putting the heads in places. And certain fittings and changing the pipe class, that changed things considerably that I don't think (inaudible) took all of that into account at the start because we were under the gun to get going. Everybody wanted to go, go and then once we started those things happened. I think a lot of it had to do, the supply prices squeezed down pretty tight and I know some (inaudible) they are getting big into golf courses. Rather than come and say and look at the plan that closely and put numbers together with valves and say hey you are going to be this short here and this short here I think everybody just bid it and then Golf Course Construction Committee September 23, 1996 Page 13 (inaudible) Ewing: And that is what we asked them to do. If they would have added everything in and analyzed it they would have been high and we would have never known that they had everything. Watson: (Inaudible) Ewing: So I guess I will go on record to say thanks for the apology but what else could you do. We asked you, you did what we asked you to do. Morrow: (Inaudible) I think the ultimate decision in the beginning was maybe (inaudible) on an engineered drawing (inaudible) The gamble was that the cost saving between the engineered plans (inaudible) with respect to (inaudible) were going to be such that we ended up still saving (inaudible) also we had the time line (inaudible).So it would have been really nice if it worked out (inaudible) but the reality is it was never (inaudible) I guess from my perspective everybody followed instructions and we are hitting our timing just right. Unfortunately we had a (inaudible). But I have to say that (inaudible) calculated risk (inaudible) the only people that thought we were going to be able to do this are those in this room and (inaudible). Fedrizzi: That is exactly right. We had the media against us, politics against us, we didn't have anything going for us. Are you pleased with what it is looking like? I have to get out there and see it. Lovan: What it is looking like, there are still trouble areas out there. Part of it is (inaudible) down size and (inaudible). Grant and I tried to squeeze in a few extra heads, I am not sure that they were even squeezed in. Cook: Well like that problem there on (inaudible) our irrigation guy I think is, Bob is a pretty good superintendent I think and he has done a lot. That was more, I put the pressure on him and I said you are three days behind schedule, you put it in and we have to go now. I was, the closer I get to (inaudible) and I don't want to wait that long and (inaudible) Lovan: (Inaudible) Cook: So there are a few of those things that I am sure that I had the direct effect on but it was either leave five holes out or (inaudible). Fedrizzi: Did Gillingham every complete his actual $10,000 with us? Golf Course Construction Committee September 23, 1996 Page 14 Lovan: Yes (inaudible) Morrow: John do you have any final thoughts? Ewing: No, I don't have any for Jake, I do have a few other things that if this is the last time we are going to go around, last week we also we have an issue with an existing well and no way to get water out of it. Has anything been done about that? Watson: (Inaudible) Lovan: (Inaudible) Ewing: The next thing is we keep talking about changes in the ponds and the problems that we have got. Do you think that by our meeting next Monday you should have a complete handle recap on added valves, pipe, the added (inaudible) we kind of had all of that last week. I got kind of confused on our budget and these numbers. But I don't know that I needed to take everybody's time on that right now. Cook: I think at #his point (inaudible) we are close enough, I don't foresee anymore extra than what we have talked about and by next Monday I plan to have complete billing. Morrow: (Inaudible) Cook: I can have our final, I plan to be seeded out and finished Thursday and completed. Watson: (Inaudible) Cook: I will probably bill in full this month and we will have irrigation completed up to that point so (inaudible) and hopefully by then Friday we can get the extra parts returned. I don't know if you want to, I don't know how that is going to work. I assume that everything extra we'll have Silver Creek come out and inventory at site and it will go back to them? Morrow: (Inaudible) Cook: I told Bob I think we should do that as soon as possible. If not then we leave and two weeks we come back and (inaudible). If Friday we can go through it and finish. Ewing: I think you need to do that, who's temporary fence (inaudible) is that your's or ours? That is ours? Lovan: (Inaudible) Golf Course Construction Committee September 23, 1996 Page 15 Ewing: So it should be sent back where we don't have any more rent. Kingsford: (Inaudible) Ewing: You think it is $2000 for that? Lovan: (Inaudible) Morrow: I think what we need to do here is make (inaudible) stock return day which needs to be done tomorrow and then based on that stock return day being Friday (inaudible) or Monday. Ewing: Definitely and get it out of there. Cook: Let's shoot for Monday (inaudible) pick up the fence on Monday. I think we will have everything Friday or Saturday, I need to talk to the irrigation contractor. I know he has a couple more jobs to start. Ewing: Are we going to have somebody verify when they say their taking this stuff or are we going to do it the same way just as we took on the delivery have them just give us a list and I (End of Tape) Morrow: (Inaudible) adjourn at 5:05 is there a second? Fedcizzi: I second that. Morrow: All those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea MEETING ADJOURNED AT 5:05 P.M. (TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)