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HomeMy WebLinkAbout96Aug05 Golf Course Committee MinsGOLF COURSE CONSTRUCTION COMMITTEE MEETING AUGUST 5, 1996 The meeting of the Golf Course Construction Committee was called to order by Chairman Walt Morrow at 4:00 P.M. MEMBERS PRESENT: Grant Kingsford, Patsy Fedrizzi, Wally Lovan, Brad Watson, John Ewing, Janice Gass: Morrow: In terms of the amounts of monies that were budgeted items with respect to the lot inventory times the $650, we have $360,750, Kingsford: And that is about what I recalled. Morrow. So now we will have (inaudible) the other issues. Gass: I am just trying to match up with Patsy's report on the financial report. On the income on the donations we match exactly but these pages right here the two first ones. We match to the penny. Morrow: That is page one and page two? Gass: Page one and page two, we match to that exactly. Since I haven't, I have got to many poles on the fire here, but, there are some other expenses that she does not have which is labeled golf course expansion expense right at the top. I think part of this Wally said would be reimbursed back to the City on the grass seed. Did you get that bill, I didn't' know how much proportionate that was going to be reimbursed back. Lovan: (Inaudible) Gass: I can get you another copy before you leave here today. So I wasn't sure how to log that in. These expenses right here are not updated on my financial report. This is my financial report here. These are new ones for June. Morrow. In other words you are showing a balance of $24,671.60 Gass: Minus these extra expenses because I didn't record them because I am not sure how that Morrow. 9652.14? Morrow. No, it would be minus that 55 that is already recorded, so it would be 9597.14, but Wally needs to give me a figure on this grass seed. Kingsford: That would credit back against the (inaudible) Golf Course Construction Committee August 5, 1996 Page 2 Gass: Yes Fedrizzi: What is this golf course, just says golf course. Gass: I can do a detail on that. Fedrizzi: Okay, then lane golf course second nine holes, none of that is anything that the (inaudible) Gass: I need you to come in and look at the expenditures (inaudible). Fedrizzi: I don't see on here the Statesman. Gass: That is not on there that will be paid in the July payables. Fedrizzi: It has never been paid, the Statesman. Kingsford: Those ran a long time ago. Fedrizzi: The Statesman was a long time ago actually. Gass: The Idaho Statesman, well there was one in March. Kingsford: That is probably it. Gass: It was $305.91 Patsy: I knew it was on there somewhere, but I hadn't seen that. Morrow: So is that the right one Patsy? Gass: It is on this print out right here. Fedrizzi: (Inaudible) Gass: The only one I know of is the Planning and Zoning, that was the last one I saw for July. But on my print out here dated with 3-31-96 Idaho Statesman. Fedrizzi: I think I have all of the Modern Printers don't I, except that last $55? Gass: No, there are some new ones, on these for June that aren't listed, we might go over Golf Course Construction Committee August 5, 1996 Page 3 it. But that is what we need to do is sit down and go over in a detail for each one. Because I think some of these like the second nine hole I am not sure if those are yours or not. And they are being charged against your account (inaudible) Fedrizzi: We are going to have to go over all of those because we are off by quite a bit it looks like (inaudible). Mprrow. Say that to me again? Fedrizzi: Well on this particular one she has grass seed and some of these other things to back out but I don't know what some of these other smaller ones are and they may not even be ours, like golf course $295 I am not sure what that is. Any of these I don't know what they are and she is saying these are ones I don't have. Gass: Like on June 30, the golf course bid documents I am not sure isn't that something concerning (Inaudible) Fedrizzi: That is something that has gone through them that didn't pass with my signature. Gass: But it is still concerning the expansion of it? Kingsford: Yes Fedrizzi: But the things that should be on mine would have my signature (inaudible) but there are two that I know I left off of here off of mine is the Statesman $305.91 and then Meridian Chamber of Commerce $180. So I am already off about $500 that I can verify. Gass: Maybe that second nine hole I am not sure. I can pull it and see. It would be easier to go into the computer and then I can show you and if you need to pull the invoices then we can pull them. There is more detail. Fedrizzi: So really if you take out the grass seed of $8,777 we are really not off that many dollars and five of it is right here. So, we are real close. Ewing: How do you, just out of curiosity how do you decide to make a check out when these are (inaudible) it has to, a lot of them have to have purchase orders but a lot of them Will has been signing because you are not available to sign to okay and I will say this is (inaudible) and Will will initial it. Fedrizzi: Well that works okay if I get a copy which I did of this $55 and I do have a question of them on that because I think they have made an error on that. And I will get Golf Course Construction Committee August 5, 1996 Page 4 back with you if that is the case because you may not want to pay that. But that is something that I am going to have to research (inaudible). If I don't get a copy of it and he initials it then I don't get it in my books and then I (inaudible). Gass: We can pull all of those Modern Printers too, (inaudible) because they made a mistake on wasn't it Brad's little identification, your little card, Gary ordered it you probably don't (inaudible). Morrow. The point is the two of you can (inaudible) Gass: Yes Fedrizzi: I will come back with the corrected and it should match yours. Gass: And if Wally could get us some information on the grass seed and I will get you a bill on that. Lovan: (Inaudible) Ewing: I think that is exactly was going to be my issue with how did you know how to pay these when this is the first time I have seen anything in Black and White that showed a price on the grass seed for sure. I just thought that is strange. Gass: It was more or less this gentleman had to have an okay information through us kind of the financial report verification of a charge through Wally and Walt. Then Wally said part of that would be reimbursed back through the golf course. So it was a charge. Ewing: That is a little hard for you I would think. Gass: I just get Will Berg the City Clerk. Morrow. I think the deal was (inaudible) requested some specific information from us prior to (inaudible) that seed. So we agreed to that and they then (inaudible) based on that purchase. In essence what we had to do John is we had to (inaudible) that is really where we are (inaudible) Gass: They had to check through the banks (inaudible) two banks that we put down as references. Kingsford: What was the $295 again? Golf Course Construction Committee August 5, 1996 Page 5 Gass: I would have to pull that out in detail. I am going to put a check mark on these that you want me to do in detail and I can do that while you guys (inaudible). How about that second nine hole? Fedrizzi: I would like to see $295, I would like to see $87.64, and I don't know if you want me to put the $133.20 on my expenses. Kingsford: No Fedrizzi: (Inaudible) the newsletter was Chamber of Commerce and the membership flyers, I am not sure exactly what that (inaudible) Gass: I can pull that up. Fedrizzi: Would you because, unless that is those green (inaudible). Gass: So the $133.20 you want me to take out of this expenditure. Morrow. So you are going to pull the documents for $295, $87.64, $64 and $60 and then the income statement with respect to the Paul White (inaudible) Gass: This is, right in this book here, this one here is just the monies received to date on the other, coming through the building department. That isn't listed on Patsy (inaudible) Morrow: We are already paying it back (inaudible) Gass: It looks like on our golf course expansion fund for the Cherry Lane Village, Paul White Cherry Lane Development we really have a problem because some of the monies that we have received from the title company they were giving us lots and blocks that didn't even agree to a lot and block which could be a minor error. What we decided over all was to go through and find out which lots apply to this expansion fund on that $100. I was trying to get, Gary was asking Bruce to go over it (inaudible) once more but it was very confusion on which lots applied and when this actually came about, when this agreement came about because there were some houses already in existence. So those that were in existence wouldn't apply because they were already existing. We do have Kingsford: So there may be some money Janice you are talking about that is unaccounted for that really belongs in this fund? Gass: More, what I was going to do is send Mr. White, the one for Cherry Lane Development a statement, these are the monies received on such and such (inaudible). Golf Course Construction Committee August 5, 1996 Page 6 There are still some that haven't been built on, but we know that some that have been so wee would just take over all the ones that do not apply to this $100 fee and then those the ones that do and the total amounts received and send him the bill and see what happens. Kingsford: Well send him kind of a letter that (inaudible) How many do you have (inaudible) Gass: This says, on this last print out we had $7800 received, we want to check it out one more time before it goes out. Kingsford: And that is just for Paul White? Gass: Yes, I could not find anything on the Dennis Marshall properties. Kingsford: Dennis Marshall came in and physically handed me a check and it was like $3200 or $2000 or something like that. (Inaudible) Gass: Golfview Estates Kingsford: It was his check that he had written (inaudible) Gass: (Inaudible) that is exactly the same thing, it could be $2000 more (inaudible) would be easy to research. So I will look into (inaudible) Kingsford: I don't know (inaudible) I know we never got those other (inaudible). He did come in and (inaudible) Gass: I could research that because there was a bank that wanted some research on that for Dennis Marshall for some other reasons. And so I still have it out. Laura comes in tomorrow, she did have a print out on how many were not received. Lots sold and not paid 105 so if times that by 100 that is about what you (inaudible). So what we want to check it over real good before we do it. Tomorrow we want to (inaudible) we really have gone through every piece of paper that we can find. We want to get our money and still keep pleasant. Morrow: So what you are suggesting right now and (inaudible) Gass: $7800 and then there probably is maybe $1800 or whatever on Dennis Marshall which I could find by tomorrow. And then we have got 105 lots. Kingsford: (Inaudible) but he handed us a check for that (inaudible) Golf Course Construction Committee August 5, 1996 Page 7 Gass: Then we also have to account for (inaudible) and get the interest on that. Morrow: Let me ask you (inaudible) Gass: Yes, sold and (inaudible) Morrow: (Inaudible) Kingsford: I would say we definitely don't count them. Gass: We still have 118 lots not sold, this could be changed, Laura updated it the other day and w+s are putting active notes on all of the files. So if the title company calls we are going to collect it. It won't be going through the title company it will go directly right through here when they call for assessments. That is going to be taken out (inaudible) So we can get the $11,800 but we are going to double check to see how many others have been built in between this time period, because this is old. She updated it so I will get you a new one. But she will be in tomorrow so we can get more on that and interest earned and lots exempt, try to get this all wrapped up by tomorrow with the interest earned. And then why you guys (inaudible) I will pull these invoices. Fedrizzi: That would be great, then at least this part can balance and we can be correct. Morrow: So where we are going to go here is conservative, we are going to have $360,700, $7800 that we have got, $1800 that we have on Dennis Marshall, and then we add the balance of the golf course expansion in the amount of $24,678 is that correct? Kingsford: (Inaudible) in the total budget picture yes. Ewing: I thought the money that come from the developer went to pay back the money not to be added up. Kingsford: This is different, what we are talking about with Paul White and Golfview that was a voluntary thing that went to the golf course construction. The ones that go back to repay are the ones that would be in Doug Campbell's thing and then Turnbull's thing. Those Ewing: Those are the only two deals? Kingsford: Right, those account for this $360,000 the pay back figure. Ewing: And those are how much a lot on those? Golf Course Construction Committee August 5, 1996 Page 8 Kingsford: $650 that graduates (inaudible) Morrow. (Inaudible) this year is $650 (Inaudible) 555 lots and it looks like at this point we have sold approximately 231ots that have been assessed that. So we paid back $14,300 of our $360,750. Then the total of those then appears to give us an operating budget at this point for our discussion today of $395,021. Fedrizzi: That $24,671 you are saying (Inaudible) Morrow: No Patsy, $24,671 came off the printed sheet, this blue printed sheet. Fedrizzi: That is old stuff. Morrow. She is indicating that is current with the exception of this stuff that. she is trying to define on this page. So what I am saying is (inaudible) for our purposes right now we have $395,000 with which to work with. Now what we do is begin subtracting the known budget items that we got and find out where it is we are at. Fedrizzi: Except if you look at that if you look at that whole thing that has a lot of stuff on there that doesn't have anything to do with like October grounds maintenance, November grounds maintenance and various things are you aware. Morrow. (Inaudible) Fedrizzi: I know but, maybe I don't know what you are talking about. This includes my stuff and (inaudible) Kingsford: All of those are expenses against this budget right here. Morrow: What we are doing, that is a running total of everything that has been spent (inaudible) offsetting the expenses based on the (inaudible) because that is the only cash that we had at the time. That is for the cutting of the weeds remember we talked about that two meetings ago and in the process of all of that stuff, so that came off there and then now what we are adding to is really the number that she has given as (inaudible) $23, 029.96. Fedrizzi: Right Morrow: However, for our purposes (inaudible) Fedrizzi: I would take roughly five off of that, Golf Course Construction Committee August 5, 1996 Page 9 Morrow. (Inaudible} $7800, $1800, and $23,029.96 Fedrizzi: Why don't you take five off of that for all of the advertising that we know is going to come off of that. I don't know where (inaudible) we already know we paid Chamber of Commerce and the Statesman. Watson: (Inaudible) Morrow: (Inaudible) when she gets back in with these answers then we deduct that stuff plus five hundred dollars. Fedrizzi: Right, roughly, so we will have, Brad what is (inaudible) and it could be some of those $60 ones too, I don't know what they are. Morrow. So what we want to talk about now is let's (inaudible) and start subtracting parts and pieces. Watson: (Inaudible) Morrow: $393, 379.96, so now then Kingsford: Mr. Chairman, if you look at Brad's budget virtually the only thing that we have spent out of those out of this budget now Brad has on here worked up based on at that point the $350,000 (Inaudible) Morrow: That is correct Watson: I kind of redid this, revised it a little bit. Morrow. Okay pass it out (inaudible) and let's redo your numbers. Watson: I don't know that much has changed, I think the basic table up above total is probably the same as it was last time except I think I threw in since we didn't have a good handle on the seed I threw in a little bit more because I (inaudible). This is kind of based on the assumption that the drainage the (inaudible) Morrow: The $352,000 is based on that assumption that the drainage tiles are there? Watson: Yes, that is not the total that I have that is just the total base that I (inaudible) some of these other things that come to light down the road. We can talk about any of those that you want, the total I have come up with is $362,127. Golf Course Construction Committee August 5, 1996 Page 10 Morrow: (Inaudible) total budget of (inaudible) Kingsford: Now Brad you note down there your budget still does assume giving that to Cloverdale does it not the forty-five. Watson: Yes it did, I had four different budgets worked up and then I just thought that was the way we were leaning last week so I didn't (inaudible) Kingsford: (Inaudible) Watson: I did get a call for Interwest Supply this morning (inaudible) because they have a (inaudible). Morrow: Okay, while we are on that, that is the one that (inaudible) Cloverdale (inaudible) $45,732, I think he has some information for us. Ewing: I do, after our last meeting I was to go back and see if I could do something with Cloverdale to get that price down. They have in fact lowered their price to $37,947, the difference between that and their original price of $45,732 I think should be handled as a donation and I think that if we are willing to accept this, I told Cloverdale Nursery that I would approach the committee, Patsy I guess since she is the head of it and/or Wally that is approximately 2/3 of a $10,000 donation. I felt like that right now we need the money bad enough and I wanted to put that out in front of the board. If giving them either a full corporate membership or a partial one is acceptable they will do it for the $37,947. Morrow: Your thoughts Patsy? Fedrizzi: I think that is totally Wally's decision if he is willing to do that. I think we need all of those donations we can get if he is willing to trade. Morrow: Grant? Kingsford: I agree, I would like to see it of course (inaudible) Morrow: Wally your thoughts? Lovan: (Inaudible) Morrow. (Inaudible) how much is the (inaudible). Ewing: I don't know, Brad can you help, I should have done my homework a little better, Golf Course Construction Committee August 5, 1996 Page 11 it is (Inaudible) that is what I understand, it is about 2/3 better (inaudible). Ewing: I am not going to snivel and I am not (inaudible) in fact I would be very pleased if they got a full one and I don't think anyone else (inaudible) I can't speak for Newberry but I know the other two they don't even need to know. Kingsford: (Inaudible) that given all of the things positively that Cloverdale is doing I am not sure that is a right number anyway, (inaudible) Morrow: It is pretty easy to justify a $10,000 full one because they have also given us a hell of a break on the (inaudible) Fedrizzi: Well I think there is even more to that because there are things that might come up in the future that he is going to have a lot better attitude (inaudible) that he is going to be more willing and if we are going to (inaudible) could serve us well. Kingsford: I feel awful good about the fact that there (inaudible) and Jake runs a pretty good ship. I think we would be very fortunate to have him on (inaudible) Lovan: (Inaudible) Morrow: Alright John transfer for to them that the Committee is more than happy to take that number and (inaudible) and we are in agreement with Wally that it is worth a corporate donation. Fedrizzi: And tell them I will be stopping by to pick up a logo to (inaudible). Ewing: Okay, I guess what I would like to do is pass this on to you then, I have no copies for everybody but I guess we need to have change orders to what I think is going to be a discussion later in the meeting of contract that should be a change order to that. That is the only copy and I apologize. Fedrizzi: Do you want me to go make some copies, I would be happy to. Ewing: I should have come more prepared, I am just happy to be here though. Morrow. (Inaudible) alright, so the next item then is that is going to impact on cost, did you, was there a new number then Brad by crediting that? Kingsford: That was $7700 what? Golf Course Construction Committee August 5, 1996 Page 12 Morrow: Well that was the difference between the (inaudible) Watson: $7785 was the difference on that, the total (inaudible) that brings it down to $354, 342 Kingsford: (Inaudible) $354,342 Watson: (Inaudible) Ewing: Another thing, Brad I see that this list is changing on our thank you, on our additional cost. Last week when I looked real quick and I couldn't find it but I think we had some main line fittings that we added, we had some is we added and now I see we are up on another 40 pipe $100 upsizing. Kingsford: On that John, when I went out the next morning (inaudible) and that is one of those deals where supposedly they bid say the equipment is $100 well what that guy was saying then is in order to shoot that radius you had to have 5 four gallons per minute per head to shoot that radius and he said you can't do that with a 2 inch pipe. Now, I guess you get back to our bid specs called out for the equivalent and I questioned that it is. Ewing: (Inaudible) Morrow. Let me interject here (inaudible) something wrong with the bid specs in terms of being too tight to begin with. Watson: Well what Jake. has said is true to a certain extent. If you use the nozzles that were originally intended you do need a greater flow through the, Rainbird because the radius is about (inaudible) that was speced you need 2 1/2 more gallons. Iran some calculations, some hydraulic calculations and I met with Wally a little bit about this and I think that the Hunter's originally spec were being pushed to the absolute maximum. I don't think you could have gotten any more out of them. This other problem that came up a couple of weeks ago about inadequate coverage kind of plays into this too because it looks like the biggest nozzles (inaudible). If you do that if you put the biggest nozzle either the Hunter or the Rainbird that it actually flip flops you need more flow through the Hunter and the Rainbird to get the same radius. So, I don't know what the moral to the story is, but I feel like the Hunter was barely adequate in the first place. That is what I (inaudible) Kingsford: So in essence you are saying there may have been dry spots with the Hunter equipment? How do you feel about Rain Bird if we do in fact buy into this 3 inch instead of 2 inch? Golf Course Construction Committee August 5, 1996 Page 13 Watson: I think either of them would work fine if you had the 3 inch. Kingsford: I guess the way I feel about it, and I agree with you, I had to see a bid and then (inaudible) but I know that (inaudible). All things being equal and knowing sprinkling systems I feel real good about having and extra inch of pipe out there in case you have to add. If you find something that is adequate then you have plenty of flow. I don't like to be gauged for $4000 but as U best can determine I think we were babied to skimpy on what was done on the first place. Corrie: My first thoughts on that besides the calculations are the guys that recommended Hillside called me and pressured me several times and I asked him if there was any cost any increase for him and he said it doesn't matter. So none of the increase (inaudible) he said he just wants to put this in right and he doesn't feel (inaudible). So I had him draft a letter explaining how come and did some calculations and sent that back to (inaudible) Kingsford: I would hate to see is just be marching along (inaudible) you are going to have to add a (inaudible) Morrow. I think from my perspective, the thing, the bottom line really is that we have been able in house to independently confirm (inaudible) what we are being told I am convinced that the original specs that (Inaudible) safety margin in the right specs to begin with. That it was marginal at best or at least the peak performance (inaudible) now we get this other opinion from Hillside and (inaudible) and we run the calculations ourselves and come to the same conclusion (inaudible) I don't think anybody is (inaudible) 1 think the man who originally wrote the specs wrote them based on (inaudible) he didn't care if they were marginal or not or right at the upper limit. Watson: He is trying to give us a good deal. Morrow: And we are getting this other input from the folk that and everybody has been bidding (inaudible) but now after the fact we find out that the original specs and the equipment were really in (inaudible). Then we add the additional factor that (Inaudible) change some distribution or something like that (inaudible) then all of the sudden we are (inaudible) Kingsford: Then of course your alternative there would be to add the additional valves and that is more money than to increase the size of-pipe or more heads, we are in a catch 22 to get where you need to be. Lovan: (Inaudible) Evergreen put in an upgrade valve into this system (inaudible) whereas (inaudible) could be that Rain Bird might use a (inaudible). Golf Course Construction Committee August 5, 1996 Page 14 Ewing: Well I agree with what everybody says, but I need to say this to hear myself say it, I think that is why we went through the bid deal. I can't believe that Evergreen skimped us that much, but I guess they did. As a committee we were supposed to check all of that stuff and I guess this last and final thing is that last week we talked abqut dry spots and moving the sprinklers out to the edge and if there were any dry spots with the design we had you were going to take care of it Wally. I guess if we use the two inch we are going to have a lot of dry spots. So who is the $4000 really (inaudible) Lovan: Well in all fairness in (inaudible) I think what he said (inaudible) Ewing: I am telling you that if the prices that I have got in and the things I have done I and I have checked and bid along with this stuff that a good example is Bob Frost, if he doesn't do that building for that price I guess I feel obligated to do it. I am just, again, I had to say that only because of the comment fast week. It seemed like this whole sprinkler system has been sliding totally the wrong way I guess. Although I don't know if it slides, (inaudible) we still got a good price on it I guess. Morrow. I think at this point (inaudible) our slide is $4572 plus the $900 plus the fees that (inaudible) Ewing: I have, my opinion is definitely this is the time to fix it. You can't be tearing up fairways and stuff later that just runs people off. Morrow Okay, so where we are at right now then, let's accept the fact that our revenues (inaudible) so $364,000 almost $365,000 Ewing: Wally, what is your feeling since they have got started (inaudible) I know you said last week they got started on it and I did see that they had started trenching. Do you think that now we have talked completely through this whole system and they don't feel like, I mean there should be no more surprises on the sprinkler system infield or in the fairways? Lovan: The only thing that I (inaudible) is on the number 2 there was one building lot in there (inaudible) and Hillside said that was not the plan (Inaudible) that is the only thing that I have (inaudible) Kingsford: Between number 1 and 2? Lovan: Between the new number 1 and 2 where you cross the street, before you get to the tee box. Kingsford: In that big lot that we have? Golf Course Construction Committee August 5, 1996 Page 15 Lovan: (Inaudible) Morrow: Who owns the vacant lot? Kingsford: Well the City does, we have owned that for a long time (inaudible) Morrow. So that is a lot that nobody (inaudible) Kingsford: Well in terms of them drawing for coverage that wouldn't have shown on the (inaudible) and that is something that I should have taken care of. Morrow. Well that is fine (inaudible) Ewing: Do we have a copy of (Inaudible) drawing still? Kingsford: Here is the position, see, it is a (inaudible) it comes out right between those two houses. Ewing: In fact it is almost too wide for a passageway. Kingsford: Do you know what happened there, because he had already had a survey and (inaudible). Ewing: (Inaudible) buy the lot for nothing Morrow: Alright so the issue there then is that we are going to have a change order probably (inaudible) Lovan: (Inaudible) Morrow. I guess where I want to go with this is that it is not, that is not a whole lot of money to talk about (inaudible) I think that where I want to go with where we are right now is that it appears at this point that we have just a little bit of a surplus. I think (inaudible) I don't want to go out and be buying any trees or anything else until we get this (inaudible) do some other things. Kingsford: John, Mr. Chairman if I may, I am looking at your fax here from Cloverdale on the connecting pond. 1 see one thing that is going to be more money just in that from the (inaudible) it said no road crossings were included. We are going to have to cross a road and I don't know what that is going to take us. But we do have to cross a road when hooking those up. I guess, now let's throw this out for discussion. We don't have to now Golf Course Construction Committee August 5, 1996 Page 16 but when that road goes in Mr. Turnbull goes in whose responsibility to (inaudible) Ewring: I knowwho most developers who take care of the ditches, or the irrigation or water flow, it is the developer. Kingsford: But we are putting something in and we know where the road is going. Where had we ought to be with that. This statement here says on it no road crossings and connecting those ponds up will have one road crossing, at least one. I am thinking maybe two. (inaudible) The irrigation pipe is a different thing than this. (Inaudible) Morrow, We are talking about a road crossing that the road doesn't exist and (inaudible} Kingsford: I am not sure where he is at with these roads. Morrow: The point is that (inaudible) conventional road crossing (inaudible) Kingsford: So you don't think that is going to be a big addition when the road is (inaudible) for whatever (inaudible) required by ACHD. Watson: Right (inaudible) Kingsford: We are actually looking at 3 crossings then aren't we? Ewing: Do we have, you have checked that we have enough depth going under those roads? Watson: Yes, this one over here I have (inaudible) there is no sewer here, they have water here. I remember (inaudible) Ewing: What is the City's requirement on road crossings with that? Kingsford: Well see we don't have one because the ACHD owns the streets. Ewing: I think the City has been pushing some things like sleeving, the pressurized irrigation all the sudden now you want a big sleeve. (Inaudible) Morrow: ACHD has the same requirements so does Ada County. Kingsford: You said (inaudible) the City water does, but it is not there. Golf Course Construction Committee August 5, 1996 Page 17 Morrow: The point is that we can make those crossings as we are doing it now without dealing with asphalt and those kinds of things. So it is a matter of sleeving it and running the sprinkler main line through it or running the drain line through it whatever the case might be and then we are (inaudible) Kingsford: Now you (Inaudible) Turnbull to these locations (inaudible) Watson: I had Rick put notes on his (inaudible) Kingsford: Well what do you think Brad, do we have an obligation to sleeve those when we build before we know where the road is going to be. Because certainly Turnbull can't go in after the fact and sleeve them once we have (inaudible). Watson: Turnbull wrote in sleeves on his plan specifically for (inaudible) for our irrigation system. I had him upsize what he had. Kingsford: So maybe he provides those for us. Watson: (Inaudible) I have Hubble lined up to (inaudible) Kingsford: When are they going to do that, I was a little disappointed (inaudible) Watson: I have a proposal that is going to be coming for approval (inaudible) Ewing: So that is going to be something more than that is going to go on this (Inaudible) Kingsford: (Inaudible) because he is not going to have any additional expenses, he is not (inaudible) so it would be just throwing that sleeve over (inaudible) and if that is located that shouldn't be anything more than just the materials. Ewing: Are those roads identified out there at all? Kingsford: I don't know that this part through here is staked, he has gone out and done some, some of that. Morrow: Well when we were out there the day that we toured it we were standing on (inaudible) Kingsford: This one is cut, is any of this cut in Wally? I think this one is isn't it? Ewing: So do we have centerline stakes where we know that how far to sleeve both ways Golf Course Construction Committee August 5, 1996 Page 18 and where to put the sleeves? Kingsford: We have sleeves already in under the ditch here don't we for these. Didn't we sleeve over in here somewhere (inaudible) It is wherever those bridges are where we (inaudible). Lovan: (Inaudible) Kingsford: We put in two sleeves in at least one of them Morrow: The point is here that we have got, Kingsford: We are going to have to have a little bit more money (inaudible) usually it is being talked about on this document (inaudible) for a finished road. So at this point in time they take the trench equipment and go across there and they (inaudible) compensate for the sleeve. We furnish them the sleeves, they drop it in and then it continues on. So that still gets us to the point that we got our operating budget, we got what appears to be our revenues now we have to (inaudible) and see where we go. We are going to have some expense for sleeves so that would be plus, (inaudible). The next place we want to go is contracts, what is the status of the contracts that we had out there. We had the issue in terms of Wayne Crookston's with Corporate Presidents signing. Watson: They are all signed, sealed and done. Morrow: I wanted to ask you a theoretical question Grant, when was the last time (inaudible) Kingsford: I don't recall Morrow: (Inaudible) and sent back the contracts with his signature affixed (Inaudible) Watson: (Inaudible) Terry said that (inaudible) Kingsford: (Inaudible) Morrow. I guess as a City have we done business like that in the past or is this something unusual? Kingsford: Well I have to tell you Walt I don't know that it has come up all that much because the stuff that (inaudible) all that was laid out in the bid documents and they had that stuff. I just, I never remember of it ever coming up. Golf Course Construction Committee August 5, 1996 Page 19 Morrow. We don't have Boise Cascades corporate president sign the contract and (inaudible). Kingsford: But, take it back like MASCO when they did something (inaudible) But I think that is standard on this type of thing. Ewing: I almost bet anything that when you built the City Hall the president of the corporation didn't sign the bid documents. Kingsford: That is a real possibility. Ewing: And I would bet when you did that (inaudible) that president didn't sign that. My question is and I guess it is important for you being on the City Council to talk about it but how can the City accept the bid if you can't accept the contract. Kingsford: I think that is a very valid statement. If the bid comes in and it is by other than the president then is that a legitimate bid? Yet when we pull them apart they are responsive bids all of these, that is the case. Morrow. (Inaudible) in some cases I am not sure that the corporate president knows they even bid the job. Kingsford: Who is the president of the corporation (Inaudible). Morrow: Alright (inaudible) we are okay then on our contracts. Watson: (Inaudible) Morrow: The only thing that we are short then is we are short Bob Frost which will be approved (inaudible) and then we will have the change order for (Inaudible) with respect to the pipe line. Can we get that done (inaudible). Watson: Yes, in fact 1 had three different change orders prepared but I didn't know we were getting a different price. So I will have to (inaudible) change the numbers. Morrow. Alright that will be fine, go do that and then (inaudible) Watson: Is that going to include their pump system too, the change order to include pump system, the pipe line, their seeding for $4000 so those 3 items on there. Kingsford: When you said pumping would you clarify that for me Brad? Golf Course Construction Committee August 5, 1996 Page 20 Watson: They are going to put in the pump (Inaudible) Morrow: Is that in line with what you are thinking? Ewing: Yes, that is in line with what I was thinking. Morrow. Patsy any additions there? Any further questions Grant? Kingsford: No that just clarify that. Morrow. So then we will have that ready, we will have them on board so (inaudible) you might indicate to him that paperwork is due to be heard tomorrow night at the City Council meeting and you can give Bob Frost that same note (inaudible). Ewing: I think Bob Frost, I saw him early this morning and he was going to call you. His question to me this morning was he has never been to a City Council meeting and he wanted to come and he wanted to know if he was on the agenda and if they were going to talk about him. I think he wanted to hear his name out loud and before the City Fathers. Is that, and I told him to call Brad, 1 said I don't know, maybe they can talk about that. Morrow: It will be tomorrow night under department reports and it is about a 23 item agenda (inaudible) Ewing: I will tell him, actually he is going to call Brad. Kingsford: While you are thinking about that would you pass onto Terry please for me my apologies on the hassle over the contracts and stuff. One of the points that lead me to not (inaudible) Ewing: Yes I will, I know what I was going to say, if there going to be added expense on that sprinkler system. I know we talked last meeting about since we are kind of going a little bit slower on this pump, new pump station, new pumps and the new pump house that are just tying into the existing so that you already had a valve and everything. Do you think that we are looking at an added expense if we do that. Remember (inaudible) what we talked about was that tying to the existing valuing it where we can during the day run whatever stations we need on the new part, wash lines and do everything. At night turn some valves irrigate existing and that. And right now I think that until that golf course gets up and is being used I would think that we could pretty well irrigate it during the day and what is being used, the existing be irrigated at night because that is the way it is anyway. I am just wondering if that is going to be an added expense that we need, it can't be much I wouldn't think. Golf Course Construction Committee August 5, 1996 Page 21 Lovan: (Inaudible) Kingsford: We are not talking $500. Ewing: I wouldn't think so either but I think that is an issue. Kingsford: I guess the one think that we need to be concerned about is that we don't let that part of the (inaudible) because I would be really shook if one of Wally's pumps goes down and that has been known to happen. That is why we would like to have four pumps out there now and he has two and so forth is because (inaudible) all of a sudden if you get a (inaudible). Ewing: I think it is (inaudible) I think that right now the only reason I suggest that is I am feeling that since we slipped so far on our pump station that we either have to decide to do it next year or do it. But I know that is awful risky, in fact I don't know do we have the system intertied with our pump stations where if you do lose a pump that you can actually irrigate existing with the new and the new with the old? Lovan: It will be made that way. (Inaudible) Morrow. I want to move along here because we have a 5:30 budget meeting that starts in this room. I guess the last issue is in terms of our construction superintendents, how are you two guys doing? Kingsford: I am doing pretty good, I guess the only thing now is and I assume it has been a matter of waiting for contracts and all that sort of thing but there hasn't been a whole lot happening since Fast week. Morrow. You will be coordinating then, the two of you will be coordinating w7th Brad in terms of any questions with respect to the contracts. Final questions or comments Brad? Watson: Nothing, I was just going to give these to you guys if you want to use them that is fine, they are just (inaudible) in case anything comes up out there that involves big increases in cost. Just so you guys can get something in writing and (inaudible). Ewing: I think that the issue of, that you make Grant about the pump station and pump everything staying real hot on that and getting it done. That really is the job superintendents job. Once the contractors signed I agree with you keep her going. Morrow: Patsy, final issues? Golf Course Construction Committee August 5, 1 X96 Page 22 Kingsford: I appreciate all (inaudible) I feel a lot better (inaudible) the actual amount (inaudible) Morrow. Now then, what is the committee's feeling about another meeting and how soon would you like to have that. I think from our standpoint (inaudible) basically a construction update. Let's keep on top of this to make sure that we have no issues that are surprises. I think right now is not a time to sit back and do any resting, I think we need to press ahead fairly hard making sure that everything is coming along in line as we had projected to be (inaudible) two weeks from today which would be the 19th of August at 4:00? Ewing: No later than that, I think that I would really like to have, if everybody, if two weeks is fine with everybody else but I v~rould really like to have an update on, I am thinking that we have some loose ends that I guess I would like to have a report on as far as sleeves under the road, did we get the stuff, I heard we were going to buy sleeves and give to them and have them throw it in. Who is going to do that, I take it that Wally and Grant are. Kingsford: I think probably along that line it is a good point and is that something possible that you could with a change order addition find out what it is that we need to put in the way of sleeves and Watson: (Inaudible) Ewing: For Cloverdale to do, I think that vwuld be really better than to let them just handle it. I think they need to be asked right upfront too if they have any problems with putting it in or with staking if they say, well all of the sudden you walk out there and you don't have it, we had be better working on getting it. Put them on the line to tell you what they need. I think that is what I am saying. Morrow: (Inaudible) Kingsford: Let's go with the 19th and then if something comes up let's make the calls and get one. Morrow: Alright so we are going to meet here August 19 at 4:00. If there are no other items then I will call for the motion to adjourn. Kingsford: I move we adjourn. Ewing: Second Morrow: All those in favor? Opposed? Golf Course Construction Committee August 5, 1996 Page 23 MOTION CARRIED: All Yea (TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)