HomeMy WebLinkAbout2009 10-27Meridian City Council Meeting October 27, 2009
A meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:00 p.m., Tuesday,
October 27, 2009, by President Charlie Rountree.
Members Present: President Charlie Rountree, Keith Bird, Brad Hoaglun, and David
Zaremba.
Members Absent: Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Others Present: Ted Baird, Jaycee Holman, Anna Canning, Bill Parsons, Warren
Stewart, Scott Colaianni, Mark Niemeyer, Keith Watts, Steve Siddoway and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
X David Zaremba X Brad Hoaglun
X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
Mayor Tammy de Weerd
Rountree: Good evening and welcome to the October 27th session of the Meridian City
Council. The time is 7:01 p.m. on Tuesday, the 27th. Roll call attendance, please.
Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance:
Rountree: Tonight we will be led in the pledge of allegiance by Troop 151. Gentlemen,
if you would come up front.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
Rountree: Don't run away here. Don't run away. I'm going to give you a City of
Meridian pin. You can add that to where ever you put those things. I don't think you
want them on your sash, but in appreciation for being here tonight we enjoy having you
folks show up and be part of the city's activity. Thank you.
Item 3: Community Invocation by Tim Pusey with Valley Shepherd Church of
the Nazarene
Rountree: Next we have the community invocation. Please join us with Pastor Tim
Pusey or take this as a moment of reflection. Thank you, pastor.
Pusey: Let's pray. Heavenly Father, we come before you this evening in behalf of the
community of Meridian and we first thank you for your many blessings and your
gracious provisions. We thank you for the confidence we have in calling upon you
tonight, knowing you're fully aware of each and every person in our community and fully
aware of every need. We pray specifically for our City Council and pray that you would
bless them as they serve our community in this way and tonight, Father, may they be
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blessed with Godly wisdom and discernment as they consider the concerns and needs
of our community. We also would pray tonight for the elections that will take place next
week, asking, Lord, that you would give to the people of our community wisdom in
guiding the right people to serve Meridian in these months and years ahead. Meridian
is a community that cares about people, who is responsive to their needs, and it's into
your hands that we entrust all these needs, amen.
Item 4: Adoption of the Agenda:
Rountree: There is some who may be concerned -- we are a few folks short this
evening. Two, by the way. We do have a quorum with three Councilmen. With two
absent we should be about 40 percent quicker tonight, that might be to your advantage.
Next action -- item is the adoption of the agenda.
Zaremba: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: On the agenda tonight there are a couple of items. Within the Consent
Agenda, which is paragraph five, we need to add an item M and that will be resolution
number 09-694, adopting an identity theft prevention program. Under Department
Reports, Item 6-A, the Mayor's office, Item one, the ordinance number is 09-1432. Item
two the resolution number is 09-695. Item 3, the resolution number is 09-696. Item
four, the resolution number is 09-697. And still under the Mayor's office we wish to add
an Item 7, which is about the Union Pacific right of entry agreement and I believe those
are the only changes. With those amendments I move we adopt the agenda.
Hoaglun: Second.
Rountree: It's been moved and seconded to adopt the agenda. All in favor aye.
Opposed same sign? Motion passes.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 5: Consent Agenda:
A. September 1, 2009 Pre-Council Meeting Minutes
B. September 14,2009 City Council Special Joint Meeting
Minutes
C. September 22, 2009 City Council Meeting Minutes
D. October 6, 2009 City Council Meeting Minutes
E. Agreement Between Ada County Sheriffs Office and the
City of Meridian for Records Billing
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F. Agreement Between Ada County Emergency Medical
Services and the City of Meridian for Blood Draw
G. Business Associate Agreement Between Ada County
Emergency Medical Services and City of Meridian
H. Change Order #1 to Original Contract Dated June 24, 2009
for PRY Scada Installation with AME Electric, LLC For a Not
to Exceed Amount of $8,079.00
I. Change Order #1 to Original Contract dated June 30, 2009 for
City Hall Cameras 8ti Installation with Apex Integrated Security
Solutions for a Not to Exceed Amount of $38,160.00
J. Task Order #10095 for McMillan and Locust Grove
Intersection Utility Improvements with Civil Survey
Consultants, Inc. for a Not to Exceed Amount of $15,725.00
K. Amendment to Original Contract dated September 25, 2008
for Street Light Maintenance with Berry Electrical Services,
Inc.
L. Agreement for EquipmentlSupplies Procurement Liquid
Emulsion Polymer with Weschem, Inc. for a Not To Exceed
Amount of $109,340.00
M. Resolution No. 09-694: Adopting an Identity Theft
Prevention Program
Rountree: Next Item is the Consent Agenda.
Zaremba: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Having noted that the Consent Agenda also includes an Item M, resolution
09-694, adopting an identity theft prevention program, I move that we adopt the
Consent Agenda as amended and for the President to sign in the absence of the Mayor
and the Clerk to attest.
Hoaglun: I'll second that.
Rountree: It's been moved and seconded to adopt the Consent Agenda. There is some
discussion. I'll point out that there is a question on Item H whether or not that
agreement has been signed and, Keith, can you fill us in a bit on Item I.
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Watts: On Item I with Apex, that has not been signed by the contractor yet. That -- I will
hold that and make sure he comes in and he, actually, has agreed to come in and sign it
in my office, so it won't leave before it is signed.
Rountree: Thank you. Any questions of Keith on that one? Warren, do you have
anything on H?
Stewart: I don't have anything. We have -- Clint's made -- Clint Worthington has made
a couple of attempts as of lately to get a hold of McLaren to have them come in and just
hasn't been able to make contact with them yet, but I don't anticipate that there is going
to be any problem with that.
Rountree: Thank you. For consideration, if we do act on these tonight and there is
changes, we will have to act on them again. Recommendation, Ted?
Baird: Mr. Council President, Members of the City Council -- Mr. Acting Mayor, it's -- it's
difficult to track these if they are not already signed, but since they are already on the
agreement and arrangements have been made to get the signatures quickly, there is
probably not too much risk in just leaving them on and passing them. If changes do
need to be made we will have to come back with a contract amendment to rescind the
approval that you would -- are considering and to reapprove a new agreement. So, it
does require a little bit more work for staff, but we are prepared to handle it. In the long
run we are trying to make the Agenda Manager program such that these things do not
get approved and put on unless the signature is there. There are some organizations
that require that we sign first and in those cases we will -- we will deal with the tracking,
but it is something that we are trying to iron out the wrinkles.
Rountree: I have a motion and a second. Does somebody wish to amend their motion
or bring forth another motion? If not --
Zaremba: Do we need to change it? I'm happy with it.
Rountree: Okay.
Zaremba: Unless we want to add that Items H and I will be held until they are signed.
Rountree: You made the motion. What do you wish to do?
Zaremba: I will suggest that even though we are approving them, that H and I will be
held until they are signed by the appropriate contractor.
Rountree: Second agree?
Hoaglun: I would second that.
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Rountree: It's been moved and seconded to adopt the Consent Agenda with the hold of
Items H and I. Roll call vote.
Roll-Call: Bird, absent; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 6: Department Reports:
A. Mayor's OfFce
1. Ordinance No. 09-1432: Upda~ng Membership
Requirements and Providing Uniform Organizational
Structure for Historic Preservation Commission, Parks &
Recreation Commission, Traffic Safety Commission, and
Arts Commission
Rountree: Next item is Department Reports. Mayor's office. Robert.
Simison: Council President ,Members of the Council, the first item you heard last week
regarding the ordinance that will allow for updated -- allow for youth members to be
appointed to a couple of our city commissions. If you have any further questions, I will
stand for them, but you heard this last week.
Rountree: Any questions? Seeing none, I need a motion on the ordinance.
Zaremba: Mr. Mayor or --
Rountree: That's okay.
Zaremba: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Acting Mayor. I move we approve ordinance 09-1432 with suspension of
rules.
Hoaglun: Second.
Rountree: It's been moved and seconded to approve Item 6-A-1, ordinance 09-1432.
Roll call vote.
Roll-Call: Bird, absent; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
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2. Resolution No. 09-695: Appointing Megan Murphy to
Seat 9 of the Parks and Recreation Commission:
3. Resolution No. 09-696: Appointing Miranda Peterson to
the TrafFic Safety Commission:
Rountree: Next item, Robert.
Simison: Okay. For this I'm going to have Luke come up and speak very briefly about
the two people for the next two resolutions for members of the Youth Council.
Cavener: Good evening, Mr. President, Members of the Council. I'll talk about,
actually, number two and number three together. These are two of the youth
appointments to the commission. The first one, Megan Murphy, be for the parks
commission. She's a sophomore at Rocky Mountain, was active in the Mayor's Youth
Advisory Council last year and has returned this year. Is also serving on the Mayor's
Youth Advisory Council. The second one is Miranda Peterson. She is also a
sophomore at Meridian High School. She applied to serve on the traffic safety
commission and from her time wanting to be more involved is also now signed up to be
part of the Mayor's Youth Advisory Council. These are two stellar young ladies that are
active in the community and in their school and I think both will be a great additions to
their respective commissions.
Rountree: Any questions of Luke? Thanks, Luke.
Cavener: Thank you.
Rountree: Need a motion for those.
Zaremba: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I move we approve resolution 09-695, appointing Megan Murphy and
resolution 09-696, appointing Miranda Peterson.
Hoaglun: Second.
Rountree: It's been moved and seconded to approve Items 6-A, two and three. Roll
call vote.
Roll-Call: Bird, absent; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Rountree: Item 4.
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4. Resolution No. 09-697: Approving lease Agreement
between College of Western Idaho and the City of
Meridian for 33 E. Idaho Avenue:
Simison: Item No. 4 you have before you is a resolution approving a lease agreement
between the College of Westem Idaho and the City of Meridian for use of the old City
Hall building. The Mayor has been in discussions with the College of Westem Idaho
about finding a use for that building for awhile until further opportunities may exist for
the full block to have other opportunities. There are -- the resolution and the agreement
may not be prepared to be signed this evening, there is still a few outstanding issues
that need to be done, but Brian Currin with the College of Westem Idaho is here and I'd
ask him to come and speak to you briefly about what their plans are for use of the
building, some of the things that they think they will need to change in the building as
that will be part of the lease agreement and, then, any other issues that he just may
want to mention about the time of the lease of that. So, Brian.
Currin: Good evening.
Rountree: If you could give us -- excuse me. Go ahead. Name and address.
Currin: My name is Brian Cumn and I'm the executive director for the College of
Westem Idaho for IT and facilities. Did you say address?
Rountree: Please.
Cumn: My home or our college?
Rountree: College would be fine.
Currin: All right. That's 5500 -- we changed our name to East Opportunity Way in
Nampa.
Rountree: Thank you.
Currin: So, anyway, on behalf of President Glandon and the College of Westem Idaho,
I'd like to thank Tammy de Weerd -- Mayor de Weerd and the city for offering us this
opportunity to utilize the building that you used to occupy. Our intention is to use this
building as our administrative offices, so we intend to move our president, advancement
offices, our marketing offices, and probably our finance office to the building. Obviously,
you probably know of our space needs at the college and this is a great way for us to
take advantage of some space at a reduced cost. One of the things that we do want to
do is to have an inspector go through the building. We would like to look at the
structure, the mechanical systems. We also realize that there may be -some ADA
compliance issues with a ramp, but other than that we think the building is sound and
solid. We would, actually, like to take your old board room -- or your council room and
make it into our board of trustees room where we will hold our board meetings. So,
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other than that, it's going to be for administrative purposes and we just want to say
thanks again for the opportunity, so --
Rountree: Any questions? Thank you for being here this evening and the update and
we look forward to being able to execute that agreement.
Cumin: Thank you.
Rountree: And, Robert, we do not have that through their legal counsel at this point, so
no action will taken this evening.
Simison: That is correct. The only action that you may want to provide is -- we can
always bring it back to you also, but we would hate to delay them getting into the
building for any specific reason, in case any City Council meetings are -- getting it
approved in the future, so I'd ask Ted for any comments he would like to make with
regard to any action you may or may not like them to take tonight.
Baird: Certainly. Thank you, Members of the Council. One approach that you might
want to consider would be to approve the resolution, which is required by statute, since
it's not currently needed for city business and approve the agreement in concept and
allow us to make any minor changes that might come up in the negotiations. The major
deal points that are in the current agreement I can take a moment to summarize those if
you would like and if those are the terms that you'd like to extend the lease, then, you
can sort of make a -- make a conditional approval tonight. It's really up -- depends on
how you would like to proceed. Otherwise, we can bring it back after we have the back
and forth with the CWI legal counsel in final form.
Rountree: With your recommendation it would be an approval of a concept, we would
see an agreement ultimately anyway; correct?
Baird: Absolutely.
Rountree: Okay. Thank you. Further questions? Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I'm comfortable with that. I'm certainly in favor of the project and making it
happen. If I'm interpreting what we are saying, we are not actually going to approve the
resolution tonight, though, is that correct? Just indicating our support for making this
happen.
Baird: Members of the Council, Council Member Zaremba, it's certainly up to you. If
you want to give staff direction to finalize the lease under the terms that we have
proposed, which is a three year term with two one year options, all maintenance for the
structure and the systems would be with the tenant, 16 parking spaces, we've included
insurance and indemnification provisions, but the lease is almost identical to the lease
that the Farmers and Merchants Bank provided to the city for the use of their former --
former bank, so it's a lease that we are comfortable with, we think that CWI would be
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comfortable with it, but some issues may arise after their inspection and they might want
to come back. But those are the -- those are the primary points of the deal and if you
want to give direction on whether you'd like those to remain in the -- in concept, we'd be
willing to take that tonight.
Rountree: And for clarification for me, those are wrapped up in this proposed
resolution.
Baird: The agreement itself is attached to the resolution.
Rountree: Yes. Okay.
Hoaglun: Mr. President? Yeah, I'm in agreement with the concept of doing this with
CWI. Just in case there is any surprises that they happen to find, we don't know about,
they don't know about, it probably would be better to wait to get it all together. As far as
the concept of doing this, I'm in favor of that, but we can just wait to make sure they get
through it and make sure there is nothing -- no surprises for anybody, so --
Rountree: So, a motion to that effect I think would make everybody a little more
comfortable as they proceed forward with inspection of the building and looking at what
they may have to do.
Zaremba: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Let me attempt to phrase that the way I think I understand it and that is that I
move that we approve moving forward with creating a lease as proposed and that that
be brought back to us for an official resolution at a later date.
Hoaglun: I will second that.
Rountree: It's been moved and seconded to approve the resolution agreement in
concept and the agreement will brought back at a further date. All those in favor aye.
Opposed same sign? Motion passes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
5. Budget Amendment for Meridian Business Day for
$6,750.00
6. Budget Amendment for State of the City Funds
$2,020.00
Rountree: Thank you, Robert. Thank you. Five and six, do you want to do them both
together?
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Simison: Items number five and six, yes.
Rountree: Please.
Simison: Item number five is a budget amendment for Meridian Business Day and you
guys I'm sure all remember the event that was held last spring on this. This is the
second version of this. This budget amendment provides for a cant' forward of funds
that they fund raised for this event last year, along with the funds they have already
secured sponsorships for for this year's event. So, all the funds that were part of this
event are accounted for and sponsorships and no cost to the city and this event is
scheduled for November 10th of this year. And the second one is a carry forward from
last year for State of the City excess funds, which were not utilized by the end of the
year for a project. Due to the Mayor's absence we weren't able to complete in time. So,
those are the two budget amendments.
Rountree: Any questions for Robert?
Zaremba: Yeah.
Rountree: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: What time of day is the Meridian Business Day?
Simison: I believe it starts at 8:00 a.m. again this year.
Zaremba: Okay.
Rountree: Other questions?
Zaremba: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I move we approve the budget amendment for Meridian Business Day for --
in the amount of 6,750 dollars.
Hoaglun: Second.
Rountree: It's been moved and seconded to approve the Business Day budget
amendment for 6,750 dollars. Roll call vote.
Roll-Call: Bird, absent; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Hoaglun: Mr. President?
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Rountree: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I will move that -- approval of budget amendment for the State of the City
funds in the amount of 2,020 dollars.
Zaremba: Second.
Rountree: It's been moved and seconded to approve the State of the City budget
amendment, 2,020 dollars. Roll call vote.
Roll-Call: Bird, absent; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
7. Union Pacific Right of Entry Agreement
Rountree: And last, Union Pacific agreement.
Simison: The last one is a Union Pacific -- right of entry agreement with Union Pacific
Railroad for the old Idaho Trust parking facility -- or old facility that would be used for
parking for the Meridian Business Day. Obviously, if we have tum out like we had at the
last event, we need to help find a way to park those three to five hundred people that
could potentially show up. We have been speaking with Union Pacific Railroad about
use of that property and this is the agreement that they had sent to us. I would defer to
the attorney Ted Baird for any comments that he would like to make about the
agreement.
Baird: Thank you, Members of the Council. The reason that we didn't put this on the
Consent Agenda is because there is a term that's in the agreement that we don't like to
recommend to you, but the Union Pacific Railroad has refused to change it, based on
the fact that their attorneys are overloaded and only working on revenue projects right
now. Their project priorities is how much revenue they bring in, so ours has a zero
attached to it. That provision is the choice of venue for lawsuits. The agreement says
that lawsuits could be brought in Nebraska or Idaho. There is probably a very slim
chance that if we do something that they don't like or one of our invitees does
something that injures their property, that we could be sued and forced to defend a
lawsuit in Nebraska. Just wanted to let you know that that -- that if you approve the
agreement that's in there and that you're taking that very small risk.
Rountree: Any questions?
Zaremba: Mr. President?
Rountree: Your desire. Mr. Zaremba.
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October 27, 2009
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Zaremba: I move we approve the Union Pacific right of entry agreement.
Hoaglun: Second.
Rountree: It's been moved and seconded to approve the Union Pacific right of entry
agreement. Roll call vote.
Roll-Call: Bird, absent; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
B. Planning Department:
1. Appeal by Rob Haddock for Waiver of Annexation
Application Fee
Rountree: Thank you, Robert. Next item, Planning Department. Anna.
Canning: Yes, sir. Thank you. You have in your packet a detailed letter from Mr.
Haddock requesting the fee waiver. I will let that stand on its merits and I did want to
comment, generally, you like to see a recommendation from the planning staff. We
usually only recommend a fee waiver if we feel we have erred in processing something
on the application prior to their request and that's not the case here. So, we are not
recommending a waiver of the fee.
Rountree: Questions for Anna?
Hoaglun: I do, Mr. President. Anna, for application fee for annexation for a residence,
is that something they have to pay up front in full or is it something that they can pay
over time? Can you give me a quick history lesson on that?
Canning: Yes, sir. It is paid in front -- up front in full. There we go. And it's, basically,
the -- covers the cost of staff time to process the application through the Planning and
Zoning Commission and City Council and the public hearings.
Rountree: Anna, we did not initiate this, did we?
Canning: No, sir.
Rountree: They brought it to our attention.
Canning: The -- we did not initiate it. The applicant is just requesting it on his own.
Rountree: And I don't see him here this evening.
Canning: I don't know him by sight, so I'm not sure.
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Rountree: Are there any underlying issues that are --
Canning: Yeah, there are several. I mean he's -- there will be complications. It's not
going to be an easy process for this one. He's actually seeking annexation because
he's facing an enforcement action in the county.
Rountree: Do you need anymore information?
Zaremba: I guess not.
Rountree: I think I have heard enough and I have seen the letter and it seems as if the
intent is to minimize costs and maybe even avoid some issues at the county level that
could more than doubled if we annexed him, so what's your pleasure?
Zaremba: Mr. President, I'll throw out an idea. There are expenses to the city for
processing these applications and the process is funded by the application fee.
However, I also can understand hardship and I guess my question is would we have the
ability to perhaps suggest splitting the fee, not charging the whole fee, but still charging
something. Is that an option open to us?
Baird: Members of the Council, Council Member Zaremba, the planning director chime
in here as well, but the provision is for a waiver of the fee. I guess partial waiver may be
implied with that. I don't think we have ever done that before. It certainly opens the
door to a precedent that you may not want to be setting.
Zaremba: Good point.
Hoaglun: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Just a comment on that, that, you know, where they are seeking the
annexation and there are fees attached and knowing that there are fees, they don't have
to seek annexation with the city if they are not able to pay, but knowing that there is
more to the story and they are just doing it to avoid other things, then, I guess it's a
matter -- a decision for them to which -- which is the lesser of two evils in their minds to
pay, so -- and it's not fair to the citizens of Meridian to pay for staff time and costs of
annexation for someone that wants to be -- to join the city. You know, everyone has
paid their dues, so to speak, if they sought annexation and it's not fair to charge them
again for that annexation process. So, I'm not inclined to waive the fee and let them
decide what they want to do, so I guess I'm prepared to make a motion to that if you'd
like, Mr. President.
Rountree: That would be fine.
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Hoaglun: Mr. President, I move that we -- I guess it would be deny the waiver request
of the annexation application fee that is requested by Mr. Haddock that is before us.
Zaremba: Second.
Rountree: It's been moved and seconded to deny the appeal for Rob Haddock. Roll
call vote.
Roll-Call: Bird, absent; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Rountree: And let the record show that Councilman Bird has joined us. Good evening.
Bird: Good evening.
C. Parks Department
1. Ten Mile Interchange Landscaping Agreement/Update by
Steve Siddoway 8~ Wade Christiansen (ITD)
Rountree: Next item. Parks Department. Ten Mile interchange landscaping
agreement.
Siddoway: Thank you, Mr. President, Members of Council. This was originally going to
be a tag team presentation with myself and Wade Christiansen myself and ITD, but I'm
now going to a solo show, so I can answer your questions and, if not, I will take any
outstanding questions back to ITD. But this is intended as an update and also to seek
some direction. Mr. Baird and I have been working with ITD on the -- their landscape
agreement, a copy of which has been included in your pack for tonight. We do not need
to act on that agreement tonight, but I would welcome any feedback or comments on
that as -- ITD we have leamed recently is on a fairly tight time schedule to get things
finalized. In an a-mail from Wade that I received today, he confirmed that they need to
have their PS&E submittal in by December 1st or there is a risk in losing funding for the
project, so I'm doing everything I can to tum things over just as quickly as I can, seek
your feedback, and get back to them. You may recall that the landscaping for the
interchange -- I presented to Council just almost exactly a year ago to seek direction,
make sure we were on track. We did receive feedback, then, that we were headed
down the right road and -- and we -- shortly thereafter we also leamed that the funding
had been pulled on the landscape project and, then, this summer we leamed that they
found a different source of funding, was able to resurrect the project, which we were
very happy to hear. In -- a lot of this is information that was presented a year ago, but,
Councilman Hoaglun, you weren't here and I just wanted to bring everyone back up to
speed on things we have been talking about. In the big picture we are talking about
making this an attractive entry at the Ten Mile interchange area. It's -- but we also want
it to focus on lower maintenance, landscape ideas. There are four islands in the
interchange associated with this. There are two medians in Ten Mile Road. At the time
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last year we knew of 16 acres of slopes. This is the one issue that probably gives me
the most pause that I expect that I like feedback on. We now have 27 acres in that area
and I will show you a map that shows you exactly what that is here in a moment. But it
is the edge landscaping, you would be driving along as you are going along one of the --
the ramps, either on or off the slopes and, then, the -basically the areas that are right
of way up to the property line. For the island areas -- so, this is the area in the -- the
interchange itself, in the structure. There is a mow strip. There are some infrequently
mown grasses. There is rock mulch. There are shrubs and grasses, river cobble, and a
sidewalk that crosses the structure. So, there are two islands on the north, there are
two islands on the south, and here is a typical island of what one of those four would be.
You can see across-section on the bottom. Functions as a drainage area. There are
no trees in the area. It's shrubs and grasses for maintenance and irrigation. The
median areas in Ten Mile Road are also intended to be beautiful, but lower
maintenance. There are no trees, though. We as a city would prefer to have trees. We
cannot have them, because ITD's clear zone requirements in those areas, so it does
include the ornamental shrubs, grasses, and perennials and the rock mulch. There is
one large median on the north close to Franklin, the southern median, which is about
two-thirds of the size, and this would be a typical treatment where it's approximately 12
feet wide and has the shrubs and grasses within that, but no trees, and you can see the
-- the cross-section at the bottom. The sloped area and edge landscaping has been
approached wanting minimal landscaping and minimal maintenance. There are no
trees. It, basically, just consists of unmown grasses, which is a mix of fescues. Will
need to be mowed at a minimum of approximately two times a year. There would be
trash pickup, fertilization, pest control, weed control, associated with -- with those
grassed areas. In your packet should have been included a pdf that included these
areas. I have kind of pasted them together for the purposes of this discussion.
Everything that's in the green -- kind of cross-hatched in green is the area that makes
up that 27 acres. So, it is -- that's the edge landscaping, the slopes adjacent to those
roadways, and that's the area that has increased to now be 27 acres. This is probably
larger than I was anticipating maintaining -- not probably, it is larger than I was
anticipating maintaining. That said, Iwould -- I bring it to you for discussion to say, you
know, should -- should we be just maintaining the edges of the interchange itself to --
you know, for beautification, because we certainly can do that. My first question, of
course, was what's -- what's it going to cost. We have already talked about the islands
and the medians during previous meetings. We presented three options last year. I do
have copies of those options with me. In fact, Jaycee, if you would hand those -- I'll
have Jaycee hand around copies of those for you again. There was a bare bones
option, a middle option, and what they called an Eagle option. I tried to change that, but
it was a pdf, I wasn't able to change that, so, anyway, the costs range from 17,000 to
33,000 and our discussions to date have focused primarily on the middle option of
25,000 dollars, approximately, on an annual basis. The question - when I learned of
this 27 acres last week, my -- that's been my focus over the last several days and at that
acreage would constitute the acreage that would be like our third largest park, only
behind Settlers Park and Heroes Park. The -- the cost of contracting that out for weekly
trash pick up and mowing and the fertilization, pest control, weed control, those kinds of
things, would -- we have solicited a couple of bids. One I just heard about just a couple
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October 27, 2009
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hours ago, because we have been working on this as quickly as we can -- would be in
50 to 75 thousand dollars range, which gave me some pause, and realized it may be
cheaper for us to hire an additional maintenance staff person and maintain this
ourselves. We tend to find that we -- in contracting out we save money on small areas,
but if there are large areas it's often cheaper for us to do it in house. So, we -- you can
sense I have some concerns about the size of that area, but I'm here to seek your
direction, because one option would be, you know, that is what we want to do, we want
to maintain those landscape areas adjacent to the -- the on-off ramps and make that a
showcase, so option one is to get her done as shown. We want this to be a showcase.
Option two would be to reduce the acres of grass area along the freeway that we would
be maintaining. A third would be to let all those areas that were in green to go to -- we
lovingly call it the dry land wheat mix. It's -- they do have a dry land seed mix that they
would put on, but no irrigation. Regardless of what option is chose, I think we should
continue to investigate the cost of contract versus in-house labor. So, with that I will go
back to this and open it up for discussion. I would point out you can see on this diagram
there is the four landscape island areas in the interchange and, then, to the north the --
the first median in Ten Mile Road and, then, this -- this square here would actually
attach on above that and this would be the -- this is the second median. So, I don't see
any particular issues with the islands or medians. My primary question deals with the --
the edge, unmown grass areas, and how much of that you would like to see maintained.
With that I'll stand for questions or comments.
Rountree: Questions?
Hoaglun: Just real quick, Mr. President. On the medians, since we are on that, those
are ITD requirements? I know we have talked medians before, but I don't know if it was
in this context or at another location.
Siddoway: Well, the city has -- had requested medians for -- for landscaping and
beautification. I think there would be some in here for access control, but they wouldn't
be landscaped, unless the city wanted that.
Hoaglun: So, if it's, Mr. President, our requirement, we are saying, oh, we want that,
then, we are -- we are the ones putting that cost on ourselves.
Siddoway: Yeah. They are doing this for the city.
Rountree: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Mr. President, when we first began talking about this, somehow I just
assumed we were only talking about the islands and the median and that the rest of it
was not in Meridian's field of interest, but it would just be the standard stuff that ITD
does at any interchange and maintains themselves. I'm not sure by asking for the
required -- or asking for the beautifications that we would want how that stretches into
making us maintain the slopes and everything else and the thing that worries me about
that is that those are also the stormwater retention areas, which those sometimes have
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problems and I'm assuming that if we are maintaining grass on the slopes, then, we
would have to fix anything that went wrong with the stormwater retention system. So,
this part of it scares me a little bit. I don't have an answer.
Baird: Council President, if I could jump in. Having reviewed the agreement, the
stormwater facilities remain the responsibility of ITD. We would only be maintaining the
grass, but the functionality we are not signing on to maintain that for them.
Zaremba: Thank you.
Rountree: Other comments? Steve, I have got many, but I'll limit it. We did commit to
the islands as we negotiated this, as well as the median strip. Just want to make sure
that there is accommodation in the design of those to provide for maintenance activities.
If we are going to maintain them we need a place to put a vehicle and a trailer to get
people there to work on it in a safe manner. You're not going to put up cones and have
flag people out there and, then, have either our staff or contractors out there in the
middle of that road, because it's going to be very unsafe. So, it's got to have some
turnouts. I don't -- I can't see it at the scale I have got here, I'd have to look at a set of
plans, but I want to make sure that that's there, some way to accommodate that. You
can see an example of that on the connector. There are turnouts, there are curb cuts,
where vehicles can get off the shoulder and in -- basically, into the landscape area, so
you can get out and do some work.
Siddoway: Mr. President, so that a vehicle can -- would park actually on the -- on the
median without needing to use cones; is that right?
Rountree: Correct.
Siddoway: Okay.
Rountree: The other issue I have with this concept -- and I don't disagree with the -- the
light green you have here in terms of landscaping, but the concept that was originally
proposed to us was a low maintenance, low growing grass, not the standard mix that
ITD uses on -- for erosion control, but a specific grass type that could be planted in
there, that would not need mowing -- possibly once a year just to clean it up for the fall
or clean it up for the spring. Other than that, it would do its own thing. We would -- we
would provide the water, they would provide the plumbing, and with establishment water
and water -- you're probably going to have a fairly successful greening of that area
without having to mow it and a much better stabilized slope situation than we have at
Meridian and at Eagle and some other interchanges. So, I think we need to explore that
with ITD, what it is they have in mind. I can't -- that green -- the full turf situation out
there, that's too much maintenance.
Siddoway: And the way you're describing is what they would say is still the vision.
They do still call it unmown grasses. In reality they say unmown, because it doesn't
require weekly mowing, but it will require mowing twice a year in order to look right.
Meridian City Council
October 27, 2009
Page 18 of 51
They are fescues, they grow up, they kind of lop over, you have probably seen them.
That is the concept out there. It's not -- it's not turf grass, it is -- it is fescues that would
need to be mowed a couple of times a year.
Rountree: I think there is some other plant types that might work better and not create
as much bio mass as the fescues would, wouldn't be necessarily as tall, and may not
need the maintenance effort that they would, because they do get -- those grasses get,
you know, knee to waist high at times and especially with water. So, I think we need to
explore that.
Siddoway: Okay.
Rountree: And, again, if we do enter into the agreement and we do have something
that satisfies us and we are going to be out there maintaining it or our contractor is, we
need to, again, accommodate that off the shoulder and particularly on those slopes that
are adjacent to the through lanes.
Siddoway: Yeah. One thing that is clear with whatever grasses are on those slopes,
they are two to one slopes and so getting -- getting a mower on them is not possible, it
will be hand work with a weed eater whenever they are knocked down.
Rountree: Let's explore that, then.
Siddoway: Okay. .
Rountree: And I guess just a reminder, if you haven't read the agreement, once we
enter into this agreement it's, basically, in perpetuity. So, whatever we agree to we
agree to for a long time.
Siddoway: Yes, sir.
Bird: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I always understood, like Councilman Rountree, that we were going to have this
low maintenance and Ican't -- I can't believe we'd even consider hiring a crew full time
to do it once or twice a year. I know a park in Boise that's 58 acres that's done -- it must
be more -- it must be cheaper for Boise to hire outside sources to take care of it than
their people, because that's what they do. So, I'm -- I want to see something that is very
low maintenance. That was the agreement right up front, Steve, so -- and I think you
better really look hard into -- to subcontracting it out over hiring and buying equipment.
Hoaglun: Mr. President, I wanted to ask a question about that -- you know, we see on
the freeways inmates being used to pick up trash on a fairly regular basis. I don't know
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October 27, 2009
Page 19 of 51
if it's quarterly or what have you, but is that an option to -- I mean that is part of the
interstate system, they use that --
Siddoway: It is an option and we just -- it's one we have looked into. We could get
inmate labor out there, the only issue is we would have to provide the weed eaters and
the -- that kind of equipment that would be needed to do that. They could be out there
doing trash pick up, but a couple members of my staff do have experience of previous
jobs that had requirements of trash pick up along -- at interchanges, both in Nampa and
Caldwell, and what they -- their experience was that -- that required weekly attention,
because of the volume of trash that those areas can attract. So, I don't see it as an
infrequent item that just inmate labor could do all of the trash pick up. Certainly they --
they can on occasion, but I think we will have to have someone out there doing regular
trash pick up and, then, regarding the -- the once or twice a year weed eating, to use
inmate labor to do that we would have to provide the equipment.
Hoaglun: Mr. President, I was just thinking inmate labor just to do the trash pick up and,
then, if you can go to the fertilization, pesticide, mowing twice a year in-house or
contracted, I'd like to explore that further, someone come in twice a year to take care of
that, you know, I think that would lower the cost significantly, but --
Siddoway: We can explore that.
Bird: Thanks, Steve.
Rountree: One other idea, Steve. We have kind of taken on this greening thing in
terms of energy and efficiencies and all that sort of thing. It appears that there is an
opportunity here to work with the extension agency or one of the universities or several
of the universities directly to look at native species and how they might react in an
environment where they get a few extra inches of water a year, as opposed to growing
in the Snake River plain with nine to 12 inches a year and we might be able to have a
real success with growing some natives out there that provide really good ground
cover, provide some real esthetic appeal in terms of various colors, everything from
silver to bright green and not require any maintenance, other than picking up trash. So,
I would think that it's an opportunity to get creative, it's another opportunity to maybe
even put something out for an award.
Siddoway: Okay. Yeah. I agree we can look into that. I believe that Jensen Belts, who
is the landscape architect on this, has been looking into native plants already, so I can
find out if they have done any work with the extension or what research they have done.
Rountree: Very good. Is that sufficient direction? Do you need more?
Siddoway: Yes, I can take that -- take that back and we will probably be back before
you again soon.
Rountree: Very good. Any other comments for Steve?
Meridian City Council
October 27, 2009
Page 20 of 51
Bird: I have none.
Zaremba: Thanks.
D. Public WorkslPurchasing
1. Change Order #2 to Original Contract Dated March 9,
2009 for Well 28 Production Well Construction with
Mclaren Well Drilling, IIC for a Not To Exceed Amount of
$4,375.00
Rountree: Thank you. Public Works. Purchasing. Go ahead, Warren.
Stewart: Excuse me. The first item that we have in the Public Works Department is a
change order for -- from Mclaren Well Drilling to finish up the well completion or well
development of Well 28, which is our newest city municipal well. We are hoping to have
that finished and ready to serve the public in January is what our goal is right now. So,
what we are asking tonight is for you to approve the change order for 4,375 dollars,
which was required for the -- required in order for them to finish the well, development of
that well, and with that I will stand for any questions if you have any.
Rountree: Any questions?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: Now, has this agreement been signed at this point?
Stewart: My understanding is that this has not been signed. They have actually sent
the change order to us so we know that that's the value that they requested, but I don't
believe this has been signed by them yet.
Holman: President Rountree, Members of the Council, I believe that Mr. Watts also had
a question, which is -- about this item, which is why we pulled it off of the Consent
Agenda and brought it down onto the regular agenda.
Rountree: Is that correct, Mr. Watts?
Holman: Mr. Watts, we are discussing that Mclaren -- the one with Mclaren for Well
28. I believe there is a question about a seal. This is the one we discussed before the
meeting last week that you wan#ed some comments in.
Watts: Correct. Mr. Radek already brought that to my attention. The change order had
-- had verbiage in there that they were retrieving a seal that was dropped down by
another contractor. That was just something they were -- they were already going down
into the well and -- they just pulled the seal out for us, since they were already down in
there. It was unclear to me at first whether that was the reason they were in the well to
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October 27, 2009
Page 21 of 51
start with and, if so, I wanted to see if we could get a recoup from the other contractor,
but that was not the case.
Rountree: Thank you. Any other questions? Comments? Your desires?
Bird: Mr. President, I move we approve change order number two with McLaren Well
Drilling, LLC, for a sum not to exceed 4,375 dollars.
Zaremba: Second.
Rountree: It's been moved and seconded to approve the change order number two for
the Well 28. Roll call vote.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
2. Task Order #0777 A for Reclaimed Water Master
Planning with HDR Engineering, Inc. for a Not to Exceed
Amount of $147,686.00
Rountree: Next item, task order 0777A.
Stewart: Yes, President, Members of the Council, task order 0777A is for the reclaimed
water master plan. You may recall back -- I think it started out long before my time -- in
2006 the Council approved a 650,000 dollar enhancement for the development of a
reuse water program. There were some significant milestones which needed to take
place within that, one of which HDR has already completed, which was the Heroes Park
permit and design. Second, they came back with a master plan proposal. That master
plan proposal had two or three phases to it. The original cost for that master plan was
344,000 dollars. We had them complete one of the first phases of that, which was the
citywide permit for 50,000 dollars. After we had gotten to this point in the process we
realized that many of the things which they had originally proposed in their master plan
we had kind of already taken care of in the course of the work that we had already
done. For instance, they had a significant amount of time in there to, basically, have
meetings with the Council and the Mayor to try and convince you that this was the
program that we needed to do. We felt like that was probably not money well spent at
this point, since you had already pretty well committed to go down that road. So, we
have gone to a process where we have renegotiated that down -- continued to whittle
that fee down to where now we are asking you to approve the final master planning
effort for the reuse water program for 147,000 dollars and we feel like that this -- we --
you know, we have gone through a pretty good effort here, it's gone -- the original task
order -- the original project -- master planning project went through the process of
selection, RFQ process and several consultants, you know, proposed on that and HDR
was the one that was selected for that, which we negotiated the original agreement and
now we have come down to the 147,000 dollars to finish this. This will do us -- several
things for us. It will help us with our financial -- figuring out how we are going to, you
Meridian City Council
October 27, 2009
Page 22 of 51
know, move forward financially with the reuse water program, how we are going to fund
it, whether it be through, you know, its own merits or whether we utilize part of water
and wastewater to do that. It will also help us to identify capital improvement needs for
the future and how we need -- you know, need to plan in order to continue to move this
-- this project forward. So, with that I guess I will stand for any questions that you have.
Rountree: Questions on this item?
Bird: I have none.
Hoaglun: Question for Warren on this. We have the 147,686, but they also have
additional alternates that they list out -- develop pipe configurations, perform hydraulic
modeling for 35,000, altemate funding option 6,000, special studies sixteen eight. Are
those things that we may request in the future and that's what the cost would be or
what's our likelihood of these coming back before us for additional payment?
Stewart: Well, this is kind of how that all came about, this is how we got down to,
basically, the 147,000 dollars. There were several items in their original, you know,
proposal that we felt like our staff could possibly take care of. The hydraulic modeling,
for instance. We are purchasing new hydraulic modeling software. If we can get our
staff trained up on that and depending upon what the number of hours that is involved,
we would actually like to take care of that ourselves. Not only would it save some
money in the consulting end of things, but it would also be a good opportunity for our
staff to learn to utilize well that new software and to become familiar with it. We hope to
be able to do that, but there is going to be a fairly significant amount of work involved.
Also, the big issue is the timing. Will we have the software, will we have the training,
and will our staff be up to speed in time for HDR, so we don't hold them up. And a lot of
those other efforts are kind of along those same lines. They are things that we believe
that our staff can do, we want to be able to do, and, you know, we pulled them out of
their contract, but we asked them to put these in as that altemate, so that if it -- if it
appears that it would be necessary for us to seek their assistance, we would have some
idea of what those things would cost us.
Hoaglun: Okay. Thank you.
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Warren, why wouldn't it probably have been smarter to take the whole bid and,
then, they can give us deduct change orders? I mean we could be back here doing
change orders every week on this job.
Stewart: You know, that's possible. In my personal experience -- and I can't speak for
what the city has had experience with in the past, is that you kind of get a better price
when you're going an add altemate at the beginning of the contract than when it's a
deductive altemate at the end of the contract. So, we asked them to give us an add
altemate at the beginning, so that we could, you know, kind of hold their feet to the fire a
Meridian City Council
October 27, 2009
Page 23 of 51
little better. They're generally a little bit more aggressive when they are trying to get the
job than they are when they are trying to give -- bum money back. But that's just kind of
my feeling on that and that's kind of why I asked them to do it.
Bird: I don't disagree with that.
Rountree: Other questions? Keith.
Watts: I'm not sure if it was clear or not, but this task order 0777A supersedes and
replaces the original task order five, which was the three hundred and some odd
thousand dollars. So, that will void that task order and this will take its place.
Rountree: Need a motion.
Bird: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve task order 0777A with HDR Engineering for reclaim water
master planning for a not to exceed amount of 147,686 dollars.
Zaremba: Second.
Rountree: It's been moved and seconded to approve task order 0777A. Roll call vote.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 7: Items Moved From Consent Agenda:
Rountree: There were no items moved from the Consent Agenda.
Item 8: Public Hearings:
A. Public Hearing: Paramount Elementary School Portable
Classroom Appeal Request for reconsideration of the
Council's decision on the appeal by the Meridian School
District of the Planning Director's decision on the
architectural and design features of a portable classroom at
Paramount Elementary School by City of Meridian - 550 W.
Producer Drive Motion to overturn Director's decision
Rountree: So, we are to Item 8, public hearings. I will now open the public hearing for
Paramount Elementary School portable classroom appeal and if the -- Eric, if you want
to make your presentation.
Meridian City Council
October 27, 2009
Page 24 of 51
Canning: Sir.
Rountree: Or Anna. Excuse me.
Canning: Thank you, Mr. President.
Rountree: Anna, give us your shot.
Canning: Thank you, Mr. President. The application before you now is the Paramount
Elementary School portable classroom appeal and the appeal is of the director's
decision to deny the application for design review. The school is located at 550 West
Producer Drive, which is east of North Linder Road and north of West McMillan Road, in
the Paramount Subdivision, as shown here. And you can see the school under
construction and the site within the subdivision. Again, as I mentioned, this is a request
for reconsideration of the Council's decision on the appeal by the Joint School District
No. 2 of the planning director's decision on architectural and design features of the
portable classroom at Paramount, just to make it as complicated as possible. Thank
you. I wanted to give you a brief history and that is the school district first applied for a
certificate of zoning compliance and design review for the 17 -- just shy of 1,800 square
foot portable classroom structure at Paramount Elementary. Staff reviewed that and
found it deficient with a number of items listed in the Unified Development Code. We,
then, contacted the applicant, they did not want to make any changes, so they filed the
appeal. City Council approved the request to overturn the director's decision regarding
compliance with the design standards and approved the site plan and building
elevations submitted by the applicant, subject to submittal of a request for alternative
compliance. The school district immediately got the alternative compliance into us and
we did forward the -- forward the application onto the building department and it is out
on their -- on the site. The pictures that staff has -- this shows the location of the
portable and, then, this is a typical portable. This is not the one on site. So, there are
members of the -- there are neighbors that have brought other pictures that will show
the exact unit on the site. So, a request for reconsideration of the City Council's
decision was filed by one of the neighbors, Keith Watson, and he states that he did not
receive notice of the public hearing for the City Council review of the director's decision.
Therefore, he and other interested parties did not have the opportunity to present
testimony at the hearing. There is some confusion as to the appropriate notice to give.
The UDC is a little ambiguous and given that it was a Council review of a director's
decision, which normally wouldn't have public input, as opposed to a planning
commission decision, staff went with kind of an abbreviated notice provision, but did
seem to be a problem in that the neighbors did not have an opportunity to comment.
So, that's why we are rehearing it tonight. This is a future note. We will clarify in the
UDC that all appeals of decisions, whether they are a director's decision or a planning
commission decision, need to have full notice. So, the outstanding issue before City
Council is also -- they should reconsider my original denial of the design review
application of the portable classroom. In particular, Council may want to consider the
additional testimony that you have received regarding the present color scheme of the
portable classroom structure and the compatibility with the associated elementary
Meridian City Council
October 27, 2009
Page 25 of 51
building. You have received written testimony of several item -- letters -- I think seven
actually submitted with -- in regard to this request. And with that I'll answer any
questions Council may have.
Rountree: Questions for Anna?
Bird: I have none at this time.
Rountree: Thank you. This is a public hearing. The original applicant for the variance
-- or the variance request or the appeal of the decision was the Meridian School District,
so I believe that they would be the next testify. So, Eric, do you have any comments?
Bird: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Before we go any farther, I want to note -- and I don't know if the other
Councilmen -- but I got an a-mail today regarding this deal from Mr. Dean Brigham
regarding testimony for the deal. I got an a-mail on it today.
Hoaglun: Mr. President, I got an a-mail, too, but it went to the spam filter and I couldn't
open it, so --
Baird: Mr. Council President?
Rountree: Yes.
Baird: If we could have Mr. Bird give a short description -- Council Member Bird give a
short description of the content of that a-mail, so that the parties can address any issues
that it may have raised.
Bird: Why don't you ask me to remember? I didn't read it real close, because I knew
this was on the agenda for tonight, so -- what it, basically, was was -- was asking us to
continue to allow this to be out there, because of -- because of the crowdedness and I
think Mr. Brigham -- in fact, I know he is -- is the principal out there. That was basically
it, just to be -- asked to be in favor of it.
Rountree: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Just a comment. I checked my a-mails very early this morning and I'm not
aware of whether I received this one or not. I may have later in the day, but I haven't
seen it. But let me just clarify. Whether the structure stays is not at issue, it's -- it's
permitted and allowed to be there. We are talking about design, whether it's going to
have a certain color or some modulation to the surface, I believe, not -- that's a
question. It's not an issue whether it's going to stay there or not; is that correct?
Meridian City Council
October 27, 2009
Page 26 of 51
Rountree: Anna can answer that specific question.
Canning: Mr. President, Mr. Zaremba, the question that's before you actually goes back
to the original decision. So, your original decision is the one that allowed it to be placed.
So, yes, you are considering the design review -- without design review approval that
structure cannot be there.
Zaremba: Thank you.
Rountree: Does that help?
Zaremba: It clarifies it, yes. Thank you.
Rountree: Okay. All right. Thank you. All right. Eric.
Exline: President, Members of the Council, my name is Eric Exline, I'm the public
information officer for Joint School No. 2. We are located at 1303 East Central. Drive,
Meridian, Idaho. 83642. I'm going to repeat a little bit of what Anna went over, because
I'm mostly here to discuss the process of the placement of portables and sort of what
brings us to this point in that process. I'm going to go all the way back to last school
year when this school, Paramount Elementary, was operating at nearly 800 students.
We had capped enrollment there out of concerns of our ability to handle that many kids
in the school. So, all of last school year enrollment capped there, anybody who moved
into its two mile attendance area was bused to the nearest available school. At the time
it was Discovery Elementary. At the request of the developer of Paramount
Subdivision, he asked us to lift that cap and we had a discussion with him that the tool
that we had in our kit bag, if you will, to do that was to place a portable building. We put
in our application last July. It was at -- at the staff level denied, because of the
ordinance as it relates to portable buildings, design review, et cetera. And I understand
why she would have, based on that ordinance, have denied that. That, then, requires
us to go to City Council and we will have to go to the City Council, as I understand it,
every time, because every portable building that we request to place will not pass that
design standard as that ordinance reads now. To ask for a waiver, that was a public
hearing. She has now answered one of my questions, because in the end I think I'm
going to have a couple for you -- in regards to if we had a public hearing and there was
no testimony and, then, what would bring us back to having another public hearing and I
think I understand that it maybe has an issue of whether or not it was noticed properly.
After that approval we, then, received our certificate of zoning compliance in which there
was no other design requirements of this building and we moved forward from there.
Shortly thereafter we heard first of the request to repaint the building. As part of my
research into that I'd like to share the following slides. This is a picture of the actual
portable. I'm showing it in this view up close, mostly to point out the color of it. If you
could go onto the next one.
Hoaglun: Eric, does that color have a name?
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Exline: That's a really good question. It's sort of a baigey off white, but I'm not a
colorologist, so I don't know. It's kind of off white. The next picture is a picture of a
home in the Paramount Subdivision. Again, I'm kind of focusing in on it, to demonstrate
what the color is. This is about two blocks away, not within line sight of the portable.
Go to the next one, please. This is another home, kind of similar, a little more yellow.
Again, about two blocks away. I was just going and looking for colors at the request of
our staff. If you could go to the next one. This house is also about two blocks away.
And go to the next one, please. This house is immediately adjacent to the Paramount
playground. That fence you are looking at is the fence to the playground. In my
estimation -- I'm open for debate, that pretty much matches the color of the portable. If
you could go to the next slide, please. This is a picture of a portable. This is an early
one in construction, obviously. There is a skirt that's been placed around it. But I didn't
go back and reshoot any pictures. That is the portable. In the background is a home
that's visible from the playground that comes close to matching it, at least in my
nonprofessional estimation of color. If you could go to the next one. This is another
view, again, of the portable. A home in the background. Next slide, please. This is the
northern property of the Paramount playground. That, again, is our fence. In the
background is the Paramount community center. If you go to the next view, the color of
the community center is, essentially, the same as the portable. And if you could go to
the next slide, it, essentially, matches it. Obviously, it doesn't have the modulations, but
the color of it is similar. I bring that simply to say this is clearly an allowable color in the
Paramount Subdivision and we have concerns -- and, again, I go back to process.
About -- if every portable has to be repainted upon its placement to match the school,
then, we are going to repaint them every time we move them. Paramount is a darker
color. I will admit that. It's about the color of the trim work, if you will, the community
center. It's a fairly dark blrick. Others of our buildings are not. All of the portables that
we currently have placed in your jurisdiction are the color of the portables that you have
before you. I am really here to get some guidance. We came to you, we recognize that
you have a new zoning ordinance. We recognize that we had to ask for a waiver of
some of these design review standards. These are not permanent buildings. They are
buildings intended to be moved. We are trying to keep their cost to a minimum in both
their installation and whatever modifications we have to make to them. It's one of the
key parts of our tool bag to deal with a school like Paramount that has 800 kids and was
built for 650 and this process, in all due respect, is getting to the point where it is so
cumbersome and apparently -- I mean if I even read how you had to notice the thing, it
sort of indicates the cumbersomeness of the process. We need to know if this is still
part of our tool kit or do we need to put additional roof lines -- the -- the objection could
have been to anything, as I understand it. It could have been to the color, to the roof
line, to the modulations on the walls, to the landscaping -- those are all aspects of the
design review that we have come and ask you to waive, which thankfully -- and I thank
you that you did. I understand that the residents there -- it does stand out. I guess you
could have a conversation about what color you should appropriately paint it. You could
paint it the color of the building. Again, we are going to have to change that. You could
paint it green to match the grass. That would probably disguise it the most. It is what it
is, a temporary portable building, designed to house kids in an overcrowded school, so
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that we can allow them to attend their neighborhood school. With that I would answer
any questions.
Bird: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Eric, what I got was it -- it stands out. Is this the same color you got out at
Meridian High School, the portables you have out there?
Exline: Councilman Bird, yes, the --
Bird: It is the brown, then, it's not white. Because it don't look like the ones they got out
at Meridian High.
Exline: I'm going to look back at my maintenance person, but I was going to bring a
picture of the row of them at Mountain View High School. There is four there. They are
as close in color that my unprofessional eye could not discern the difference. Wayne,
am I describing that correctly? Are they all essentially the same color? And the others
are nearly matching in color. There -- there is not much difference. You can find these
at Linder Elementary. Chaparral Elementary. Ponderosa has a few. They exist in a
number of places.
Bird: But Paramount's is brick or block, whatever they have used, is a different color
than the normal school in color.
Exline: Councilman Bird, some of our schools have a darker brick color. Ponderosa is
darker. It also has these portables. Chaparral is whiter. So, there are -- there is some
variability. Discovery is fairly similar in color. It kind of depends on the era in which it
was built.
Bird: And do you have any idea what it costs to repaint one of the portables?
Exline: Councilman Bird, about 2,100 dollars.
Bird: Twenty-one hundred dollars. Because what I took from the neighbors was strictly
they'd like something that would match a little better, but wouldn't stick out like a sore
thumb, and, you know, so -- I realize when you -- if it was a darker color, though, it
would match with brick more on all of the schools, because I can't think of a single light
brick one you got.
Exline: Councilman Bird, the color that it is now, if you moved it to Chaparral, in my
estimation, you want it to match, you would paint it back to what it is.
Bird: Chaparral? Yeah, you could be right. Yeah. You're right.
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Exline: Sony. This is our maintenance person.
Bird: Yeah. I know.
Rountree: Excuse me. If you could come up here and state your name and address for
the record.
Hoaglun: Mr. President, while he's coming up, I might have another question for Eric
real quickly. My kids started at Linder Elementary and there were portables then. I
think those same portables are still there. And I have got a son who is a senior in
college now. What -- when you say temporary, what is the length of that time that they
could be there?
Exline: Council Hoaglun, that's a very good question. There are, essentially, two eras
of portables in the world of portables. There are those that you mentioned at Linder, at
Chaparral -- I'm not going to pretend like I can produce the whole list. A few years ago
-- three, fourish, something like that, five years ago, the state determined that the only
portables that were any more more portable are the ones that are tagged. Come with
an official state tag. The portable here in question, in addition to 15 or 16 others that we
purchased in the last bond, are those state tagged portables. So, they are truly
movable. In my estimation of the ones at places like Linder Elementary, so we can no
longer move them in your jurisdiction or any others. At some point in the future I believe
what will become of them is that their value will not be worth their maintenance and in
some way you're going to surplus them. These, however, are intended to be used for
as long as we can get the life out of them, which is about the life span that you just
indicated with your son being in college.
Hoaglun: Okay. I'm sure FEMA would take them off our hands.
Exline: It's a very legitimate question.
Hanners: Okay. Wayne Hanners. I'm the supervisor of operations, Joint School
District No. 2, 2301 East Lanark is my office address, Meridian, Idaho. Other colors that
you would look at in your jurisdiction. Chief Joseph is a lighter brick color, more
appropriate to the color of this. Linder Elementary, as you just spoke of, Councilman, is
lighter colors. So, yes, there are definitely some shades of block that are, because of
the age of those schools, definitely different shades, different colors. And, again, we
tried to keep these all within a certain range. Again, we move them. The older ones, as
Eric as alluded to, for the most part are legal according to the state department of
building safety, to be moved any further. So, they are where they are going to be for the
long term until their useful life, of course, is done. Now, these new portables are, again,
state tagged and legal to move. We invested several million dollars to purchase these
and, again, with the intent that they are mobile and meet all of the building codes and
requirements for life safety and occupancy. And the intent is to make them just that, a
modular movable building.
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Rountree: It's my tum. A couple of your questions about the process. Most of our
decisions there can be a request for reconsideration. If we act favorably on that
request, you're experiencing what happens. If we deny those requests, then, our
decision is final. The next step in a lot of situations could be or can be through the court
system. In this case I think probably due process was the reason why we granted the
reconsideration, to give the folks an opportunity to be heard. Having said that, that,
basically, opens all of this back up to the dialogue that's been said and any new
dialogue and testimony that can be presented. And either we reaffirm or modify our
previous decision. Does that help?
Exline: Mr. President, thank you. It does. And one other additional question and I think
I know the answer, but -- and you can answer it or staff. So, if you, then, act to say that
the portable must be painted, then, I assume that we lose our occupancy permit until
that happens, because the occupancy letter says -- if I can get this right -- and, please,
help me, staff, I'm -- I'm treading in areas in which I am no expert. Issuance of a
certificate of occupancy shall not be construed to be as an approval of a violation of
various things, including other ordinances of this jurisdiction and I assume that the
waiving of the architectural requirements is one of those other ordinances of the
jurisdiction being indicated on the certificate of occupancy.
Rountree: We'll let the planning director broach that question.
Canning: Mr. President, Members of the Council, obviously, Council has the authority
to determine the timing of any actions that you would like to see with regard to the piece
of the property, so it would not be necessary, unless that's the desire of the Council to
pull the occupancy.
Exline: So, just to make sure I understand, you could set some parameters or time in
which whatever change had to be made?
Rountree: It wouldn't necessarily result in an eviction.
Exline: Thank you. I believe that's all I have to say. Anything else, Wayne? Thank
you.
Rountree: Thank you. This is a public hearing. I have six folks signed up to testify.
Five against and one for. Keith Watson is first on the list. Keith. And I indicated before
that public testimony is limited to three minutes, but you have indicated you're speaking
for the folks on this list or --
Watson: That's correct.
Rountree: Okay.
Watson: Perhaps I'd like to reserve 30 seconds, though, for maybe one other comment
from another member.
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Rountree: Okay.
Watson: Take a moment to bring up this Powerpoint. I'm not sure I get this off of here.
Holman: Sir, yeah, once he gets your Powerpoint up, you will use that pen right there to
pass the screen.
Watson: Okay. Got the flash drive, but I can't get that to come up. I don't know how I
can access this.
Canning: Well, hold on for just a second.
Rountree: StafFs working on it over there.
Canning: Staff will bring it up for you.
Watson: Okay.
Rountree: You're not on the clock yet.
Watson: President Rountree, Members of the Council, good evening. My name is
Keith Watson. I reside at 762 West Cagney Street in Meridian. And, first, let me thank
you for your service to the city. I expect that all your efforts are not always appreciated,
but -- but we certainly do. Of course, the issue at hand is this portable classroom at the
Paramount Elementary School. There are several members of the Paramount
Subdivision, which I represent their views, some of which are in attendance tonight. If
they would, please, stand. And I understand others have submitted written testimony to
the city clerk's office as well. We believe that the Meridian School District's portable
classrooms should comply with the City of Meridian's design manuals and the UDC
code. As you know, the Meridian School District's application was denied by the
planning section for noncompliance with certain directives and codes. The school
district appeal Council voted in favor of the appeal and the portable classrooms were
installed without meeting the design criteria required by code or the design manual. If I
may, I'd like to, please, tum your attention to our Powerpoint presentation. In the City of
Meridian's design manual, Section D2-0, architectural character, the objective is to
encourage the use of quality materials that promote esthetic building design and
appropriate contributions to development of a timeless community character. Excuse
me. Additionally, the guideline states that use of colors that compliment the use of
building materials and support innovative and good design practices and the use of
subtle neutral and natural tones for field -- for fill materials should compliment accent
colors and materials. We suggest to you that this clearly does not meet that criteria.
This is a -- obviously, a view from my backyard and it's a lot different view than what you
see when you're standing right next to the door. And that is a more close-up view. You
can see how it -- it shows harshly in the -- in the background, too. The use of deep
tones -- excuse me. The use of deep earth tones or saturated colors to distinguish
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building facades should enhance the building design to be compatible with adjacent
structures. Materials or colors with high reflectants, such as metal, should be reviewed
with the planning staff to minimize glare on roadways, public spaces, and you can see
the glare that's coming off all of that entryway -- the substructure there. So, again, we
suggest to you that this clearly does not meet the criteria of that design manual.
Additionally, I would like to tum your attention to the UDC 11-3A-11 for outdoor lighting.
The standards of that says that fixtures exceeding 260 lumens shall have opaque top to
prevent uplighting. Fixtures shall be located to prevent the direct glare to a street and to
minimize impact on abutting properties. And fixtures shall be set to go on when
triggered by activity on a property, sensor activated, and go off within five minutes after
activation has ceased. Lighting on this building is in violation of all three of these code
requirements. They have improper cut off shield, direct way on abutting properties, and
the motion detector is triggered by traffic on the joint public street. And if I could draw,
this right here, this is the light in question. This is probably a good 220 feet from the --
from the road and when a car goes by there that light's on, it's off, it's on and off and it's
-- it's quite annoying. These next two slides -- it was suggested that the portable
classroom color meets community standards. Both of the next two slides were taken
the same day. The structure shares almost identical color, but because of the
architectural difference, the resident structure blends in with the neighborhood. That's
the -- that's the residence. As a matter of fact, it was my neighbor and the color is
identical, but without the architectural improvements onto the classroom, then, of
course, the color becomes all prevalent and nothing breaks it up. So, I think the
examples that I have that show the difference between acceptable into the community,
not just color, it has to be some architectural relief to break the color or else the color
needs changed. On this slide we will touch briefly on the review standards. Peter
Friedman, which is the deputy director of your planning department, clearly states in the
rejection letter that this building is subject to the design review standards listed in UDC
11-3A-19 and the City of Meridian design manual. Also, in UDC 11-3A-19, the structure
and site design standards also says the following minimum standards shall apply in
addition to the detailed guidelines as set forth in the City of Meridian design. Our
requested action is to require the Meridian School District to comply with the UDC dash
19 and dash 11 and the City of Meridian design manual as regards to this building.
Solutions. I tried to work with Luke Cavener of the Mayor' office and I have suggested
several options to the school district. We offered to volunteer paint the building,
donation of paint, perhaps from Home Depot. Paramount developer participation. Or
the Paramount Subdivision monetary donation. Luke informs me that the Meridian
School District has rejected all of these suggestions. In closing, then, I would like to,
again, request that the portable classrooms comply with the UDC and the Meridian
design manual. And I will stand for your questions.
Rountree: Brad.
Hoaglun: Mr. President, just -- I just want to be sure on your concerns, because you
end with discussion about -- about the paint and how to change the color. So, you're --
that is what you're seeking is the change of the color, because that slide when you
showed your neighbors house, you said, well, that's the same color, but, you know,
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there is no -- do you have architectural relief. So, I just want to be sure you're not
asking for the architectural relief to make it fit, but it's -- you would be satisfied if it was
just the color that would make it fit better?
Watson: Well, Councilman Hoaglun, what I would really like to see is I'm going to ask
for everything and what I can get I will be happy with, so -- we understand that this --
this portable classroom is a need for the school. We don't deny that. We are a
neighbor there. We support the school. We are just asking that it blends into the
community a lot better. Just to blend it in with the community that color, I think you have
to have architectural changes, as shown by my neighbor's house. But if you're not
prepared to force architectural changes on a temporary building, then, clearly, I think we
have a -- you have a responsibility to mitigate the color that will blend in with the
community.
Hoaglun: Thank you.
Watson: You're welcome.
Rountree: Any other questions? I have a question on your next to the last slide.
Watson: Sure. How come I keep getting the school district's slides up here? Thank
you. And (believe -- is it that one?
Rountree: No. It's the one that listed the options. Solutions.
Watson: Solutions.
Rountree: My question is you list five -- or four -- four solutions. Are those real or just
suggestions?
Watson: Those are suggestions to -- they were suggestions. Luke took them to the
Meridian School District. I'm not sure, I think he talked to Eric, and their response was
no and that the color of the building already met community standards.
Rountree: Thank you. Any other questions? Thank you. Next person on the list is
Marva Watson. Are you the one that gets 30 seconds? That was nice of him.
M.Watson: Well, I requested.
Rountree: Give us your name and address.
M.Watson: Marva Watson. I reside at 762 West Cagney and, President of the Council,
Members of the Council, I appreciate you allowing us to come here and present our --
ourthoughts on this. The only thing I want to do is -- we are not asking that the building
be painted exactly the same color as the school. The school is a brick red. You know,
that could possibly stand out. We are just asking for something that's not going to be as
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fluorescent as this one is when -- when it's sitting there with a flat base. Something that
could fit in with other schools if it needed to be moved -- you know, there is a house
behind it. Some of the houses that the school presented -- yes, they are, you know,
similar colors, but they are not sitting out there, they do have the architectural, you
know, design, like my husband talked about. So, we are not asking that it be painted
the brick red, just something that could blend in that maybe even could be moved to the
another school. The other thing is -- is I think it was pointed out by one of the Council
members is that this is within a subdivision. This doesn't sit on the edge of a
subdivision, like Hunter Elementary or some of these others. This is -- it was in a --
there is houses around it. There is more spaces for more of these temporary buildings.
So, you know, the more that's added, the worse it's going to look if more is added. Like
I said, we are very supportive of the school. We are trying to be good neighbors. I think
that we have shown that during Arbor Day and a number of other things. All we are
asking is that the school also be a good neighbor to those of us who's impacted by this.
So, I think that's it. Thank you.
Rountree: Thank you. Next on the list is Whitney -- or no. Excuse me. Marsha
Hoffbauer. Okay. You're against our previous decision. Okay. And Whitney Ware?
Wood. Okay. And you're -- you're with Keith? And Eric Woods. Okay. And you're
also with Keith? And, then, Eric Exline. And he's for. Eric, do you have any closing
comments you want to make?
Exline: Mr. President, Members of the Council, my comment in large part would be that
I agree with much of the presentation that this gentleman just gave. The portable does
not comply with a number of the architectural design requirements. That's why we
came and asked for an exemption. Those design requirements simply do not fit what a
portable building is. The reflection that they described is the handicap accessible ramp
that's built out of aluminum. We have to have it on the building. I suppose we could
build them out of wood. They don't come with those. That would be an additional
expense as well. I can't really disagree that he can bring up the code and say that the
building does not comply with it. That is why the planning director denied the
application in the first place and in her position I would have done the same. Our
problem is -- and, again, I go back to the process. These are temporary buildings that
do not meet those design review standards. And the only other thing that I would clarify
is I never had any direct conversation about the notion of donations, et cetera. The only
thing that I would say is that if it's going to be painted it needs to be professionally done,
because it's got a brand new paint of coat on it right now. As to the lighting, all of that,
those are modifications that a portable building is not going to comply with those
architectural standards without modifying it, without changing roof lines, without adding
modulation. That's what we asked you to waive. That's what we are going to continue
to ask you to waive if this is going to continue to be something that we can use to
alleviate overcrowding on a temporary basis in schools that are overcrowded. Any
questions?
Rountree: Any questions for Eric?
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Hoaglun: I do. Just to be sure I understand, it's Paramount Subdivision, there is still a
lot of open space. I don't think it's completely built out; is that correct?
Exline: That is correct. I would estimate that it's about 40 percent of the land is the
square mile -- I'm not the developer, but I drive there a lot.
Hoaglun: Yeah. I'm trying to recall from our last meeting we had on this, was there
going to be another school site -- when that is built out you're going to need another
school site or will this -- is this the only school for that subdivision?
Exline: Councilman Hoaglun, yes, I can clarify that. Currently Paramount, the school,
serves two square miles. The square mile in which Paramount, the subdivision, is
located, and the school and, then, the square mile immediately to its west, which is
largely Lochsa Falls. There is a couple of things that have been added to it. We have a
school site in that location that we would have begun construction on an elementary
school, so what happen is half of the -- the Paramount Elementary School will ultimately
serve the square mile in which it sits and we will build a second school in the next
square mile, which will serve the square mile in which it sits. The only reason that's not
under construction is in order to do so, we would have to raise the maximum amount of
plant facility levy that we can. To do so would have raised everybody's property taxes
and the commitment of the district we have promised not to do, so we had to only raise
14 out of 20 million. That all goes into what happened to our property tax values, they
lost about 12 percent of their value.
Hoaglun: So, where I'm going with this, Eric, if I might follow up, is if the economy
improves and Paramount gets built out and -- does the school district look at
subdivisions like that and say, okay, we can estimate that there is going to be X amount
of kids at that school -- it's hard, but I'm sure you have got people who are smart
enough to figure those out. I'm not, but --
Exline: Councilman Hoaglun -- I don't know if I want to admit this -- I'm the one who
sometimes does those calculations and I'm not sure I'm saying I'm smart enough to
figure it out, but our calculation, based on census data, would say if you build a
subdivision like Paramount at that density, 3.5 homes per acre, a square mile over time
will generate children in the quantity necessary to fill that school. It's, actually, a nice
planning model for us, because it turns the collector roads into the boundaries, creating
roads that you don't have to cross kids on. The little bit of the squeeze that happens in
that calculation is on initial build out you will have more kids than that, because new
homes generate somewhat higher numbers than what built out homes do. That's a little
bit why you have portable buildings as part of what you do to accommodate that. We
also don't build them and, then, the houses come, our planning system doesn't work
that way. I mean we build them and, then, houses come along and, then, we have to
build another one. But that square mile should generate 650 elementary age kids over
time.
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October 27, 2009
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Hoaglun: So, it's conceivable, Mr. President and Eric, that at build out and you have
another elementary school, that portable will go away?
Exline: Councilman Hoalgun, it will go away. There would be no purpose for it to be
there. Actually, when we build the other elementary school -- and these are interesting
numbers, Paramount serves those two square miles. Currently about 350 of the
children who attend Paramount live in that square mile. The other square mile has the
balance of 500 kids. We will fill up the new school. Paramount will actually have
capacity, you will have no need for a portable.
Bird: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Eric, you know, I didn't see -- I didn't hear anything from Mr. Watson saying that
they wanted to get the portable out of there, they want to work with you. What is the
real -- what is the school district's -- not -- why do they not want to put 2,100 dollars in
there and paint it by a professional painter, have it look -- and I don't know who is going
to pick the color.
Exline: Neither do I.
Bird: I'm certainly not going to, but they don't want it the color of the school, which
would be my -- my choice, but, you know, they got CC&Rs, maybe they can help you.
But why is the school district, for 2,100 dollars, we are -- we are -- we become a good
neighbor and we kind of pick that stuff up and, you know, even if they -- if somebody
goes out and gets a donation of the paint and you just have to pay for the labor, you
would save quite a bit. But why did the school district reject all these?
Exline: Councilman Bird, our main objection is the process over time. Okay? So, then,
we are going to move that portable and, then, the next neighbors are not -- are going to
object to the color for some reason or the landscape design or the modulation and,
then, we are going to have to reinvest money in new paint or any of those other -- we
are hanging our issue on the fact that this gentleman's presentation is correct, we do not
meet those design standards, we must come to you to waive them and it's not just the
color that someone might pick, it may be in the end the resolution is we end up painting
this, but when we move it, we are going to end up painting it again if the next neighbors
determine that they don't like that color. We just do not fit that design standard. We are
-- we will be the first to tell you that and our concern is this is a big part of our
jurisdiction, we have to operate in it successfully, and portables are a really important
tool. So, that was kind of a long answer.
Bird: Unless you know something different than I'm being told, I don't think you're going
to be moving this for quite awhile, because I don't see the economy getting that built --
those built outs and allowing you to build over in Lochsa Falls. And I don't know how
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long you take between paint jobs on a portable, but I'm sure five, ten years you probably
have to repaint it, because those portables aren't the best siding in the world.
Exline: That's true. I don't know, Ijust --
Bird: I think that there is a workable way -- we know you -- we know you need the
portable out there. There is no way you can operate without the portable and we are
certainly -- or I'm not certainly -- I'm not sitting here trying to handicap kids and I don't
think a single one of those neighbors want to handicap kids. They are willing to work
and if it's a 2,100 dollar paint job, Ijust -- I can't see why the school district wouldn't --
and most of those schools when you move it to them, probably never have -- how many
times has this paint thing come up?
Exline: Councilman Bird, it has never come up before.
Bird: That's what I mean.
Exline: But we have never had to ask a waiver for the design standards. If you ask me
the resolution personally, the resolution would be we would paint that and you would
change the ordinance?
Bird: You're talking to a guy that isn't a real design review person, so I wouldn't have
any problem with --
Exline: It is not that I object to the notion that you should have solid design review
standards for your community for permanent structures, because no one wants
Meridian to build an unattractive city. It's bad for business. It's bad for people moving.
I understand all of that. Portables don't fit. And this process is making it very
cumbersome for us -- we didn't even get it in for the start of school. Now, I know it was
new. We will start earlier. But if you were to ask my personal opinion of the solution,
that's a solution. And that is not what's on the table in front of you today.
Bird: No.
Rountree: But you bring up a point that I'll make yet again is that -- and you have
stated. They are not permanent buildings. These are temporary structures. Those are
your words.
Exline: We have no definition of what that is. And I see temporary structures and not
permanent buildings in the grade school in my neighborhood that have been there since
it's built. I have been there six years. So that's not neither temporary, nor not
permanent. So, there is an issue there as well.
Exline: Mr. President, my one suggestion in that regard is in some jurisdictions they
would allow you to pass the design standards. If you do not move the building within
some specified time frame in the code -- two years or three years is typical -- then, you
Meridian City Council
October 27, 2009
Page 38 of 51
have to come to City Council to explain either when you're going to move it or what
design modifications you're going to make it to now make it, because it's become semi-
permanent. Just a suggestion.
Rountree: You're reading my mind. On the solutions that were suggested, is there a --
you have indicated you have not had any discussions about these. Is there any
willingness on the part of the school district to entertain the neighborhood if they were to
bring 15, 20 gallons of quality paint and an individual who knows how to paint that
structure? Is there an objection there?
Exline: Mr. Chairman, our --our main objection would be, A, that it needs to be painted
by a professional, someone who is --
Rountree: I appreciate that.
Exline: -- better than me. My other, however, is -- goes back to my other point that in
some way I would ask that we can fix this process, so that each time we move a
portable or if I remove that, that I'm not going to have to paint it again, because it
doesn't -- again, I go to the gentleman's presentation. He is correct, if you follow that
code we should have to modulate, we should have to mitigate the shiny on ramp, we --
much of those things should have to be changed. So, I guess in the end I am at your
mercy, because it's your ordinance. But I guess that's the best that I can answer that
question.
Bird: Mr. President?
Rountree: I have got another question. With respect to the light fixture that blinks, it
seems to me that from an energy standpoint investment in a motion detector that's not
quit as sensitive as the one you have there might save you a few light bulbs and some
energy in the long run.
Exline: Mr. President, that issue I have to say I'm not familiar with. I assume it's some
sort of light sensor, but I don't really know much about its operation, I'm not going to
pretend like I do.
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Mr. Exline, I was going to ask on that motion detector, too, why do we have to be
200 and some feet out of there. And another question is let's solve this problem and,
then, maybe we can work together on an ordinance for temporary buildings. But right
now we have got a problem that we need to -- that we need to solve, not only for you
guys, for the school district, but also for the neighborhood and, then, we can work with
you. And I know everyone of this Council and the Mayor would be glad to look into what
these portable buildings, what we can do if there is some changes we can do to make it
better. We are here to help the school district. Heck, we are taxpayers to the school
district. You took our kids through school, educated them, and so, you know, we are
Meridian City Council
October 27, 2009
Page 39 of 51
here to -- we are here to help, but we also got some citizens that's got a legitimate
complaint in this one area I believe.
Exline: Councilman Bird, if we felt that we could go forward on trying to somehow make
this process work better and we could make the neighborhood happy, I could live with --
with that sort of solution. If it would be appropriate can I ask your planning director a
question?
Rountree: Direct it to us and we will get an answer for you.
Exline: Thank you. I would ask if the planning director has any thoughts on the idea of
modifying that design review standard in regards to portables, maybe even limited for
the purpose of school capacity.
Rountree: Anna.
Canning: Mr. President, we -- when we addressed the temporary use issue we talked a
lot about temporary buildings and, admittedly, school districts are a little different. We
do have a definition of a temporary building, but this is way outside the definition of
temporary, which I think is three months is what we have got it at right now. The idea of
if it's there longer than two or three years it fully comply with design guidelines might be
away to go, but it would be calling out just school district -- probably just Meridian
School District, because if you open it up for all schools, then, realize you're opening it
for all schools. So, every day care that's also apreschool -- it's a wide door you're
opening there. So, the codes don't deal with temporary buildings very well and we
didn't call it a temporary building, we -- the CZC implies that it's a permanent building
and that's how we treated it, because by our definition that is what it is, so --
Rountree: Thank you.
Canning: We can look at other options, but it's -- it's a tricky issue as we detailed as we
went through the temporary use ordinances as well.
Rountree: And I will put my perspective on that. The design ordinance is an ordinance
that we are, as a Council, have implemented with some caution and we have
continuous -- continuous review process in place and as measures need to be taken to
remedy these kinds of situations we explore them. So, we have -- you have our
attention on that issue, so --
Exline: Mr. President, then, maybe one more question. Would it be agreeable if maybe
after this meeting I could get together with your planning director Anna Canning, who
graduated from the same high school as me -- anyway -- and maybe we could talk
about ideas that maybe I could meet with staff to work on ideas about how this
ordinance might be made a little bit more agreeable to the use of portables.
Meridian City Council
October 27, 2009
Page 40 of 51
Rountree: We are always open to suggestions. That's something you need to resolve
with your schedule and Anna's schedule.
Canning: To clarify, we didn't actually graduate from the same high schools.
Exline: We didn't? Where did you graduate from?
Rountree: Different schools together.
Canning: California.
Exline: Did you leave before you graduated? Sorry, I missed that part. She's a year
younger than me, I have to admit that, too.
Rountree: Well, that's enough. Okay. Any other questions for Eric? Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Mr. President, I was just going to add to the comments on the motion sensor
light. In my experience most of those are adjustable and I would suggest looking at it
and adjusting it. It certainly needs to identify if somebody's coming up the ramp and
approaching the building, but I would make it as narrowly sensitive as possible and I
think it's probably just turning a knob on it someplace.
Hoaglun: And, Mr. President, a comment, since we are on this. I mean we talk about
temporary, we talk about permanent, and we have those categories, you know, and we
-- we are trying to be flexible on this ordinance and making changes as we go along,
because we are learning. I mean it sounds like this is asemi-permanent facility. It
could be over there from three to ten years and that is not temporary, but, yet, they can
move it and they may move it in the future, that makes it semi-permanent. So,
something to think about just for the record.
Rountree: Thank you. Any further questions for Eric? Very good. Any further
testimony. One time. No, you get one shot. Yeah. You've had your shot. Yeah.
Yeah. Any new testimony? You have to come up here and give us your name and
address.
Whitham: My name is Eric Whitham, 503 Valention. My property backs up almost
directly against that building. But in regard to the temporary status, I mean that's one
thing I'd like the Council to define or the Meridian School District to define, because I
mean as he mentions, he said semi-permanent. I mean that -- that to me classifies that
building. So, I mean -- and the Meridian School District is trying to say it's temporary. I
don't see it as temporary, so -- and I don't think that they really see it as temporary
either. That's my main concern. If it really was temporary, if it was a year I could
probably live with it, but, you know, if my house backs up next to it for ten years and I
have to look at that stupid thing for ten years, they should comply somewhat. That's my
main concern.
Meridian City Council
October 27, 2009
Page 41 of 51
Rountree: Thank you. Any new testimony? Seeing none, Council?
Bird: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we close the public hearing on Paramount Elementary School portable
classrooms.
Zaremba: Second.
Rountree: It's been moved and seconded to close the public hearing on Item 8-A. All
those in favor. Opposed same sign?
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Rountree: The hearing is closed. Discussion.
Hoaglun: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Just to start things off, a comment. I really didn't want to be in City Council to
be a color cop, but -- just a couple of thoughts as I listen to the testimony by the
neighbors and Eric and, you know -- and previously, you know, this is a reconsideration,
so this is starting brand new. You know, coming from the standpoint, though, of the
direction I might go is the fact that as a taxpayer I really don't want citizens to have to
pay to make this building comply in terms of architectural features and varied roof lines
and all these things that are part of the design process, because that is very expensive
and -- and I want to protect the school district from that cost and my pocket book from
that cost, because it will dip into all of ours ~at some point in time. But at the same time
as I listen to the neighbors and recognize the fact and try to find out, well, how long is
this going to be here, it is semi permanent and they are going to have to live with that
for several years. We don't know how long and it's really tough for the school district to
know and the times that we are in I think Councilman Bird's right, it could be for a very
long time and so the question to me is, okay, what is -- well, where -- where can we split
the baby if that's possible here and -- and, you know, you look at the paint, go maybe
that is an option and the school district I understand the concern, the precedent it might
set and if you do move it and it's completely out of character with another location, but --
so, those are the things that I'm weighing in my mind on this issue, but Idon't -- I don't
see the need for them to comply totally with the -- what we gave them relief from in the
past. I'm still tending to want to give them relief on those architectural designs and that
was my question to Mr. Watson when he asked that about -- because if you soften it
with architectural features, add landscaping, it will probably fit right in, but -- and that's
not what they are asking, to their credit.
Meridian City Council
October 27, 2009
Page 42 of 51
Zaremba: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I thoroughly agree with not asking for all of the design features, the
modulated facades and varied roof lines, and I by no means am a color expert, I'm
partially color blind, so I can't tell you what color it is. The one thing that I do notice,
though, as was pointed out in the testimony, is the glare that comes off of that building
and I would lean towards requesting that it be painted not only a more muted color, but
a flat color and I think that would help. Couldn't tell you what color, but --
Bird: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I have the same question about what color are we going to paint it and how are
we going to paint it. I certainly don't want to be the one that selects the color. I don't
think 2,100 dollars, if that's -- and I'm sure, knowing Eric, that was probably a pretty
good ballpark figure for the paint on that, knowing -- because he's pretty thorough. I
think that -- and Idon't -- they got to have it there, let's face the facts, and we are not
here to -- to overcrowd the school or anything else, but I think 2,100 dollar investment
for the school district is very cheap to make -- to be good neighbors and I'm like
Councilman Zaremba, make it a flat, because that does -- I don't know, that's a pretty
high gloss paint or -- I think. Or it sure looks like it in the pictures. Maybe the pictures
are deceiving. But that would be my -- and I'm not here to make -- you know, want to
tell them to do the architecturals or anything like that. That's a very practical building
that the school district does. The aluminum ramps and steps are very practical. But I
think if you just get a color that will blend in with the school and to me a darker color of
some kind would blend in where it wouldn't stand out like a sore thumb.
Rountree: My concern still is is the issue of temporary and how can we address that
and I do appreciate the comment from Eric Exline about time -- the waiver to a period of
time. I'm inclined to maintain our previous decision with the addition that it would be for
a period of no more than two years, at which time we would reconsider and request at a
minimum effort to pull it into compliance with the design guidelines with respect to
fixtures and color. So, we have got all extremes here. I'll entertain a motion if
somebody would like to make one.
Zaremba: Mr. President, I'll attempt.
Rountree: Okay.
Zaremba: The request actually is an overturning of a ruling that was already made by
the planning director and, again, with an appreciation to the work that the planning
director does and understanding that she had no choice, I move that we overturn her
decision and waive the architectural and design requirements of this portable
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October 27, 2009
Page 43 of 51
classroom, with the exception of -- one condition would be working with staff to find a
more muted color that either is complimentary with the building or -- let me just say
muted and also more of a mat finish, so that it is not highly reflective when the sun is
shinning on it. And to add the provision that in this case temporary means two years
and it will need to be reviewed in two years. End of motion.
Rountree: I have a motion.
Hoaglun: I'll second that.
Rountree: It's been moved and seconded. Discussion?
Hoaglun: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: The two years, I had to think about that and I'm assuming, Mr. President and
Anna, that this would -- they are coming at our request and there is -- that would -- there
is no cost to them to do that, because they are not requesting anything -- annexation or
anything else, so we are not putting fees onto that, I would assume.
Canning: Some clarification as to the motion might help. I had assumed that staff
would just bring it forward for Council's discussion, but you might indicate whether you
want that to be a public hearing or whether you want it to be initiated by staff or whether
you want them to reapply for design review as it may exist at that point, that would be
helpful.
Zaremba: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: My thinking was that in that two year period our design review standards may
have been more tightly defined as to what's temporary and portable and non-temporary
and semi temporary, that we will have had some new revision of our new standards that
take this better into account and I was thinking it would be astaff-initiated action at that
point.
Rountree: You want to include that in your motion?
Zaremba: Yes.
Rountree: Does the second agree?
Hoaglun: I agree.
Meridian City Council
October 27, 2009
Page 44 of 51
Canning: Just so I can make sure I understand. So, staff will -- in two years staff will
initiate a new design review for the portable and report the findings to Council?
Zaremba: That works forme. Yes.
Rountree: That's my understanding.
Canning: Okay. Do you want notice provided to the neighbors or anything? Mr.
President, Members of the Council, would you like notice? Sorry.
Zaremba: You know, in this one -- I'm not saying that that should be a permanent part
of the code, but I would say in this one case let's -- and, unfortunately, the school district
is being part of our experiment here, as are the neighbors. As we work out the bugs in
this design review process, they are the ones that got caught in it, but I would say, yes,
when it comes up for review two years from now the neighbors should be notified. I'm
not saying that should be part of the ordinance, though. Maybe we will decide that later.
Rountree: Given all the discussion and the diversion from the original motion, I would
request that you either submit another motion or restate the motion with what's your
intent.
Zaremba: I would be happy to attempt to restate it. I move that we overturn the
director's initial denial and approve the placement of this temporary building without a
requirement for architectural features or roof line modulation, but with a condition that
the color be changed to a more muted and mat finish and the condition that staff bring
this forward for review again two years from now, at which time it will also be noticed to
the neighbors.
Hoaglun: I will second that.
Rountree: It's been moved and seconded and I won't attempt to restate it.
Bird: Mr. President?
Rountree: Discussion. Mr. Bird.
Bird: Can -- now, in the second motion you didn't say who was going to select the color.
Zaremba: I intended to say work with staff. I'm sorry. I did leave that out.
Bird: I would -- you entertain saying work with staff, school district, and homeowners
association president?
Zaremba: I believe that's a good idea. Yes, I incorporate that in the motion.
Bird: Don't have a homeowners association?
Meridian City Council
October 27, 2009
Page 45 of 51
Rountree: The developer is.
Bird: Oh. Okay. Then, that isn't a good idea, David. Do it your way. I agree with it.
Rountree: Motion stands.
Zaremba: Okay. It's --thank you.
Rountree: Further discussion? Let's have a roll call vote.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, nay; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
Rountree: Motion passes.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE NAY.
B. Public Hearing-V AR 09-004 Ashford Greens Pump House
Request for a Variance to UDC 11-3B-7C6 to allow an
impervious surface (irrigation pump house) within a street
landscape buffer in an R-4 zoning district for Ashford Greens
Pump House by Ashford Greens Owners Association -east
side of N. Black Cat Road, south ofW. Talamore Boulevard &
west of N. Waggle Place (Lot 2, Block 19, Ashford Greens
Subdivision No.4)
Rountree: Next item -- next public hearing is the request for a variance for Ashford
Green pump house. Anna. Or Bill.
Zaremba: Mr. President, before we start, I am a member of the Ashford Greens
homeowners association and I believe it would be appropriate if I excuse myself.
Rountree: That would be appropriate.
Bird: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Declaration. One of the members of Ashford Greens called me this morning, Mr.
John Goade, asked about the deal. We did not discuss anything regarding it, but I do
want to let people know that we had -- he had called, he did not ask for my -- what I
thought or anything like that, but he did mention it was on tonight, so --
Rountree: Thank you for disclosing that. I don't find an issue with that. Does anybody
else? No? Thank you. It is a public hearing. Bill, are you going to do the staff
presentation? Okay.
Meridian City Council
October 27, 2009
Page 46 of 51
Parsons: I am, Mr. President, Members of the Council. As you stated earlier, this is a
request for a variance to allow a -- not really -- to really approve an existing irrigation
facility within the required street buffer. Right now all the -- a portion -- or at least
primarily around the development it's all R-4 zoned property, with the exception of the
RUT zoned property to the west. This subdivision -- this common lot was platted with
the Ashford Greens Subdivision No. 4 in 2000 and at that time that's when the facility
was constructed. The site is located on the east side of Black Cat Road and
approximately a quarter of a mile or so -- 600 feet from Cherry Lane. This exhibit before
you right now shows you where that existing facility is and how it falls within the
subdivision. One thing that I would like to point out to Council tonight is the fact that
when this subdivision was platted, it was platted with three common lots, two of those
lots are along public streets and the other one is the cul-de-sac, the planter island within
the cul-de-sac, which terminates at the south boundary. So, there really was no area
for this facility to be located, rather than where you see it today. Current ordinance
requires that these irrigation facilities be located on separate lots solely dedicated for
irrigation facilities. Again, because this is a built out subdivision and those homes that
abut the back of this facility, there is no other option for this facility to be located outside
of that buffer. Here is how it looks from the road. If you were to drive down Black Cat,
again, you could see it was enclosed with a six foot fence. The applicant is proposing to
remove that fencing and enclose that with a roof structure. On the right-hand side you
can see that the facility is above ground. The reason why they are asking for the
variance and to enclose the structure is, one to protect it from the weather, because it is
a costly facility and, two, is to keep kids out and keep vandalism from happening to their
facility. Staff agrees with that logic. I mean, basically, we don't want the public to go in
there -- some kid crawling over the fence and hopping into that and possibly getting hurt
or electrocuted. So, it certainly makes sense to have that structure enclosed. So, as far
as the variance, finding for public safety issue, we could certainly agree with that one.
One thing staff did not get a clear clarification from the applicant was how the structure
would look and how that would impact the adjacent -- the landscaping that surrounds
the site, because it's -- the structure will require a building permit, it requires design
review approval per the UDC and so the provision staff has recommended, approval of
an impervious surface. However, we haven't recommended approval of the structure
that will go over that facility, so I wanted to at least emphasize that to Council that it's
important and let the applicant know, if they are in the audience, that we would
encourage you to come in, talk with staff, let's look at the proposed building, make sure
that you do have some of those architectural features, realizing you won't meet all those
requirements of the design review criteria, but we do want to see similar building
materials on this and see how it relates to the road and also because there is mature
landscaping we will want to make sure that that's either protected or mitigated for if
there is any disturbance to that. So, trees were to be removed along that facility, if you
look at the left-hand photo here you can see how mature the landscaping is, so if those
trees would be lost, you could see how much open that structure would be to the road
and so staff would want to -- at that point would want to make sure and look at a
landscape plan to see how we could, one, mitigate for those trees and make sure that
they are protected. Staff did not receive any written testimony on this application and,
again, staff is recommending approval with the stipulation that the applicant come back
Meridian City Council
October 27, 2009
Page 47 of 51
to us for CZC and design review and with that conclude my presentation, I'd be happy to
answer any questions Council may have.
Rountree: Questions?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: Seeing no questions, this is a public hearing. I have a list with one individual
signed up for, Ron Howell. State your name and address for the record.
Howell: I'm Ronald Howell. I live at 2622 North Waggle Place in Ashford Greens, about
less than a block from the irrigation facility. I am also on the board of directors for the
homeowners association. Secretary of the board of directors. And it was my
understanding that this was denied and we were coming here to appeal this denial, but
it sounds like it hasn't been denied. It's my understanding also -- talk about the
landscape -- that in our estimation we don't anticipate having to take any of those trees
out. Some of them are going to have to be trimmed back a little bit, the ones on the
south side, I believe, and I think it -- certainly what we are planning to put in there is
going to look better than the fence that we have there now. It's a six foot fence. We are
talking about having the peak of this roof at ten feet and I guess if you have any
questions of me I would try to answer them. I don't have any presentation.
Rountree: Any questions for Mr. Howell?
Bird: I have none.
Hoaglun: Mr. President. Mr. Howell-- it's Howell, not Powell?
Howell: Howell. H-o-w-a-I-I.
Hoaglun: Okay. Thank you. One of the things that staff is recommending I read and
they mentioned again is going to -- getting a certificate of zoning compliance and going
through the design review -- the process. And this for a pump house. Are you familiar
with that process? Do you know what that will entail? I don't want you to be surprised
here. We might want to discuss this, so you know what the process is. How familiar
are you with the next step, let me put it to you that way?
Howell: As far as getting permits, I'm not familiar with it. It has been taken care of by
our property manager up to this point.
Hoaglun: Okay. Mr. President, if you don't mind, if Anna might talk about that process
a little bit, just so you know what that is and report back to your association, so -- we
just don't want people to go, well, wait a minute, why do we have to go through all that.
So, Anna, would you mind doing that?
Meridian City Council
October 27, 2009
Page 48 of 51
Canning: Sure. Sure, Councilman Hoalgun. Because the size of the proposed
structure does not fall within the -- kind of the exemption within the building code, you
will need to have a building permit and prior to obtaining a building permit you need to,
basically, get a site plan approval from the planning and zoning department. So, the
action that goes on tonight, if Council acts favorably, what they are saying is you have
permission to not follow all of our codes, particularly the one with regard to building in
the landscape buffer. So, that's the action tonight. But you still need to meet all our
other codes and those would include tree mitigation, if you are losing trees, and also the
-- because you have to get -- because this is a permanent structure, then, you're
required to meet design review and what the design review looks at is modulations in
the facade and the roof -- we are generally looking for windows and articulation, things
like that. What Mr. Parsons said in his presentation is we can work with you to -- with
alternative compliance to try and soften those and you just sat through the whole
hearing on different ways to soften those -- in effects of the building, so with
landscaping, with maybe some different color treatments, things like that. But we will
have to work with you on coming up with a design that's appropriate for the building and
appropriate for the visibility of the building and the area. We are not going to make you
look like a -- completely like a house, but we are going to move you a little bit toward
that way.
Howell: Thank you.
Rountree: And just to point to your comment about you thought it was denied, staff
does not have the ability to approve or deny a variance of an ordinance, that has to be
before Council. We have to do one or the other. I have a question -- you are the
secretary of your homeowners association. I assume you have a design review
committee and I suspect that this building will go in front of your design review
committee for approval and I suspect given the neighborhood that will more than
accommodate our needs from a design review perspective, but you still have to bring
that forward. Any further questions for Mr. Howell? Thank you. It is a public hearing.
Anyone else wish to speak? Steve, you got to have an opportunity to come up here.
It is all about water, isn't it?
Allred: Pleasure to be here. My name is Steve Allred, 4642 West Dawson in Meridian.
Just a couple of comments. This is the first one of the Council meetings that I have
been to and I have had an interesting last few years and you do very well.
Rountree: Thank you.
Allred: Certainly a heck of a lot better than what I saw in Washington D.C. I can assure
you -- I'm also on the board and this building will meet our CC&Rs and we will make
sure that our people agree with it. I wish we -- I wish it had been done better when it
was built, but beside the point. We want to make it nice. We want to make it safe. So,
we appreciate your help.
Rountree: Very good. Thank you. Any further comments? Need a motion.
Meridian City Council
October 27, 2009
Page 49 of 51
Bird: Mr. President, I move we close the public hearing on VAR 09-004.
Hoaglun: Second.
Rountree: It's been moved and seconded to close the public hearing on Item 8-B. All in
favor. Opposed same sign. Motion passes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Rountree: What's your pleasure?
Bird: Mr. President?
Rountree: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve VAR 09-004 for Ashford Greens pump house, the request for
the variance to UDC 11-3B-7C-6, for the imgation pump house and for them to go
forward with staff to get their building permit.
Hoaglun: Second that.
Rountree: It's been moved and seconded to approve the requested variance for the
pump house and further compliance with CZC and building permit would still be in
effect. All in favor of the motion? Opposed same sign. Motion passes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Rountree: Thank you. Thanks for you comment, Steve. We are here to hopefully solve
problems and make decisions and I think we do that readily and with a fair amount of
thought -- but instantaneous thought because of the pay we receive.
Canning: President Rountree, before you adjourn to Executive Session, may I bring up
an item -- unless some -- unless the city attorney says you can't comment on it.
Rountree: Well, then, how are we going to hear it?
Canning: Well, I mean he might stop me mid sentence is what I meant to say.
Rountree: Yes, you may.
Canning: The discussion in the lobby with the school district and the neighbors
centered on the fact that we forgot to clarify the timing of the painting. So, that leaves it
to my discretion, so I'm just asking for some guidance, perhaps, on the timing. And we
only have two of the people that can comment on that, I suppose, at this point.
Meridian City Council
October 27, 2009
Page 50 of 51
Rountree: Well, we can get David out of --
Baird: Mr. President, I think it will be fine to get some direction to staff without changing
your motion or requiring a reopening of the hearing.
Rountree: Well, I'll state mine real quick. You know where I'm coming from. It's two
years. I didn't vote for the amendment of the motion.
Canning: Councilman Zaremba, for your benefit, the discussion in the lobby that
occurred after the approval of the portable was the timing of the painting and it's -- I'm
just asking Council for some guidance on what you might be saying. It would make it
difficult to get it painted right away due to the oncoming cold weather, so if you could,
perhaps, just provide some guidance.
Zaremba: Let's see. The weather does affect that. Is it a metal building or a wooden --
what's the siding?
Rountree: It's wood. Composition, probably.
Zaremba: Well, it's not --
Canning: Probably synthetic.
Rountree: If it's not done by the end of November, it's not going to happen.
Zaremba: Yeah. And I'm thinking that that's really something that a professional
painter should decide when it can be painted. I don't have an opinion, but I would say
by April, I guess. I was thinking it would be done in the next couple of weeks, but you
raise a good point.
Hoaglun: I was thinking within six months. If they could do it now, get her done, that
gives them through April. If you go November, December, January, February, March,
April. Yeah. A good thing I didn't have to take off my shoes.
Canning: President Rountree, Members of the Council, within six months would be
consistent with other things that we delay due to weather, so that's a -- if you're okay
with that I will go with that.
Rountree: Nodding of heads?
Zaremba: That works for me.
Canning: Thank you.
Rountree: That works. And you can assign somebody to make sure that happens.
Meridian City Council
October 27, 2009
Page 51 of 51
Canning: Yes.
Bird: Put it on your calendar.
Canning: Yeah. I like the way you punted the color to me. Thank you very much.
Sorry.
Item 9: Executive Session per Idaho State Code 67-2345(1)(f) - (to consider
and advise its legal representatives in pending litigation)
Rountree: We have calendared on the agenda an Executive Session, but we have no
need for that and the item we were going to discuss has not changed since the last time
we discussed, so I'd entertain a motion.
Hoaglun: Mr. President, I move to adjourn.
Bird: Second.
Rountree: It's been moved and seconded to adjourn. All in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:27 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FI HESE PROCEEDINGS)
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