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HomeMy WebLinkAboutJuly 3, 2003 P & Z MinutesMeridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting July 3, 2003 Page 61 of 91 Centers: Moved to close the Public Hearing. Motion and second. All in favor? MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, TWO ABSENT Zaremba: Mr. Chairman, I move we forward to the City Council- recommending approval of Item 11 on our agenda, CUP 03-025, request for a Conditional Use Permit for a bank facility with adrive-thru window in a C-C zone for Idaho Banking Company, by Idaho Banking Company, 1875 South Eagle Road. To include all staff comments of their memo with a transmittal date of June 30, 2003, and reemphasizing that Item 4 on Page 5 grants the staff administrative authority to make adjustments that don't include the drive-thru. Rohm: I'll second that motion. Centers: Motion and second to approve Item 11 on our agenda. All in favor? Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, TWO ABSENT Item 12. Public Hearing: AZ 03-009 Request for annexation and zoning of 11 acres from RUT to R-15 (PD) and C-N zones for proposed The Courtyards at Ten Mile by Doug Campbell /Tom Bevan / DTE Developers -southeast corner of North Ten Mile Road and West Pine Avenue: Item 13. Public Hearing: PP 03-010 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 31 building lots and 5 other lots on 11 acres in proposed R-15 (PD) and C-N zones for proposed The Courtyards at Ten Mile by Doug Campbell / Tom Bevan I DTE Developers -southeast corner of North Ten Mile Road and West Pine Avenue: Item 14. Public Hearing: CUP 03-020 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for attached single-family residential with commercial in proposed R-15 (PD) and C-N zones for proposed The Courtyards at Ten Mile by Doug Campbell /Tom Bevan /DTE Developers -southeast corner of North Ten Mile Road and West Pine Avenue: Centers: Next on our agenda, I think it's what most of you were waiting for. Items 12, 13, and 14. I'd like to open all three Public Hearings at this time. Item 12 being the annexation and zoning of 11 acres from RUT to C-N zones for The Courtyards at Ten Mile. Item 13 is a Preliminary Plat. Same project. Item 14 is a Conditional Use Permit for that Preliminary Plat. Start with the staff comments. Kirkpatrick: Chairman, Members of the Commission, again, this is an application for a Preliminary Plat, which for 31 building lots, including 28 single-family attached homes, Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting July 3, 2003 Page 62 of 91 three commercial lots, and five other lots, including one park. It's also an application for annexation of 11 acres. It currently zoned RUT and located in the county. They are proposing a Rezone to R-15 and C-N. It's also an application for a CUP and Planned Development to allow reduced lot sizes, reduced frontage requirements, reduced setbacks, reduced home sizes, and an exemption from the cul-de-sac length requirements to allow a 495-foot cul-de-sac. They are also asking for an allowance to have residential lots above retail buildings. The property is located at the southeast corner of Ten Mile and Pine. It's surrounded -- to the north, it's bordered by Pine Street. North of Pine Street there is residential development, for zoning of R-15 and commercial development zone, L-O. To the south the property is zoned RUT and there is a proposed church, which will be located there. To the east we have the Ten Mile Drain and to the east of the Ten Mile Drain it's zoned RUT, it's in agricultural use now. To the west of the subject property we have Ten Mile Road and to the west of Ten Mile Road the property is zoned RUT and its use is agricultural use. Let's see, I wanted to go through, before we get into the staff report, what the Comp Plan designation for the subject property is. The Comp Plan designates this as a mixed-use community area and this is also located north of what the Comp Plan designates to be a potential transit station. The proposed project -- let's see. Which Iwill -- which features commercial retail uses, I can see on the left side, the west side, and 4-plexes, which will be multi- family, as well as multi-family residential lots or apartments above the retail on the west edge of the property. We find that this -- staff feels this is very compatible with the Comp Plan designation for mixed-use community. And I'll read you a little bit of the Comp Plan. The Comp Plan reads the mixed-use community designation is to provide for a combination of compatible land uses and, when feasible, multi-family residential uses will be encouraged. I'm going to go through -some of the special considerations I had for this project and I'll go ahead and show some elevations. You can see what they are predicting the project will look like. This will be -- this will be the retail components and they are proposing to have two of these retail commercial buildings to have the residential lots located above their retail. Here are some more elevations. This is their proposed signage. Okay. I will go back to the elevations. Some of the special considerations Ihad -- the applicant is asking for residential above the retail in two of the commercial buildings. This request is not specifically addressed by our zoning ordinance, but this is supported by our Comp Plan in the mixed-use designation for that piece of property. The applicant, for their two amenities for the planned development, is proposing micropaths, which would improve connectivity within the development, and a half acre park, which would include a tot lot. I wanted to note that the half acre park -- actually, Ithink it's a .67 acre park, does not meet the ten percent requirements for open space that's called out for in our ordinance. They are asking for alternative compliance and the tot lot in combination with the park, they are asking to have that count as an amenity in the project. Let's see. I'm going to show another submittal. The staff met with the applicant this past week and the applicant has submitted revised elevations for the 4-plexes. Originally staff was concerned with the lack of landscaping on the 4- plexes and also with the vehicular access. We were concerned it was going to be a tight access point for the vehicles to move to -- actually, if you see to the north, you can --that's where they have garages and proposed carports and we were concerned it would be difficult for particularly larger cars to access those garages and carports.. The Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting July 3, 20D3 Page 63 of 91 applicant worked with us and submitted drawings -- lets see -- drawings depicting how vehicles will access these garages and carports. The applicant also submitted this revised elevation showing -- they made a couple of substantial improvements putting landscaping in front of the 4-plexes and they have added windows to the garages to kind of break up the front. We wanted to emphasize the applicant has been very amendable to working with staff to improve the project. Oh, there, actually, were a couple more design features. They added some colored concrete and arbors to soften up the front of the 4-plexes. The staff -- let me back up. Staff supports this project. We feel that this is the type of development that really meets the Comp Plan designation for the subject property and really is what amixed-use development is supposed to be. Are there any questions of staff? Centers: Commission? I have one question. Kirkpatrick: Okay. Centers: While we are waiting. Did you see their brochure? Kirkpatrick: I did. Centers: It says 56 total living units, 28 town home duplexes. You have 28 single- family on your report. Kirkpatrick: Actually, we consider it to be single-family attadhed homes. That's our -- how we designated those in the code. Centers: Okay. Zaremba: And they are 4-plexes, not duplexes, is that correct? Centers: According to this they are duplexes 28 times two is 56. Of course, the applicant will address that. I guess I didn't hear any comment on the 10-foot driveways. Kirkpatrick: Oh, actually, okay, that was noted in the staff report and the applicant -- originally Public Works was concerned with the possibility of -- if a vehicle were parked on the driveway in front of the garage, the tail end of the vehicle would hang out onto the street. The applicant has proposed to ask for a setback of 10 feet to move the buildings to the back of the lot, which would alleviate that problem. It will be extending the driveway -- which we think is definitely abetter -- is definitely the best solution to the problem. They are asking for a reduced setback, but no -- Zaremba: Reduced rear setback -- Kirkpatrick: Reduced rear setback. Zaremba: -- to accomplish a greater front setback? Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting July 3, 2003 Page 64 of 91 Kirkpatrick: Correct. Centers: All right Zaremba: This probably is a question for the applicant, but comment, if you would, about the residential areas above the commercial areas. Do we have any -- I'm not sure what a loft means. Do we have an idea of what square footage these are going to be? Do they need any garages for cars? Kirkpatrick: That's actually -- that's a question for the applicant. I don't have a rendering of what those would look like and I want to make a correction to my staff report. There are actually 14 4-plexes. They are not single-family detached or duplexes. Centers: Okay. Is the applicant here? Good Ralphs: Good evening, Commissioners. My name is Rod Ralphs. I live at 2730 North Greenbelt Place in Meridian. I'm here on behalf of DTE Development, LLC, the developers of the proposed project. Just want to give you a little bit of background and, then, field some of the questions posed by the Commissioners. This is an 11-acre parcel -- if we could go back to the plat, please, one more back. Okay. This is an 11- acre parcel, just a shade over 11 acres they're on the southeast corner of Pine and Ten Mile. Currently to the north you have single-family residents and agricultural uses, pasture land. There are some livestock there. To the east you also have agricultural uses and pasture land, along with the drain. To the south is the proposed church that we are working with, with putting together different services that are required by the city. Then, to the west we have more agricultural land. We will be placing on our plat notice to all of our business owners and homeowners that, you know, they are surrounded by agricultural land right now and as long as that's a concern, any noise issues, farm animal issues, you take it as you find it, so we would be putting that on our plat and I know that's a question the Commission usually wants us to put in, so we will be doing that. Currently, as staff has indicated, the property is designated a mixed-use community. What that does is that allows us -- or least guides us into producing a project that has both mixed-use commercial, residential, and part of the commercial we are putting offices and retail in the different buildings and I'd like to talk about the commercial first, if I may. You see here towards the northwest corner, that is a proposed gas pad site and this large building here that's got the angle in it is Building A. Building A is going to have retail below -- it's a large building, it's 9,460 square feet and, then, upstairs we will have the lofts. In answer to your question about the lofts, these are going to be residential lofts no carports or garages are proposed for these. They will be in square footage anywhere from 1,000 to 1,500 square feet. Here on the back side of Building A is Building B and if you see -- and we will go down here in the renderings in a moment, but Building B is astand-alone. There is kind of a courtyard feature that you also find in the recommendations for mixed-use applications that where you have adjoining buildings that is for office or retail, that we would provide some type Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting July 3, 2003 Page 65 of 91 of a courtyard feature. Going down here to Building C, this is another building that would have retail below and it would have the lofts upstairs. The lofts -- you would probably find something similar like a studio type arrangement, a studio apartment type arrangement, but I don't have an elevation or layout for you this evening. Going back here to building -- let's see, A, B, C -- this would be Building D. That's a proposed bank site. Then, these two other remaining buildings here are the commercial and they will be bath office. These are two story office buildings, 3,000 down, 3,000 up for both of them. Do you have any questions for me on the commercial? Zaremba: Yes, I do have one. First, let me say we keep asking for people to bring us interesting and intriguing things and -- Ralphs: And we succeeded. Zaremba: -- congratulations. Ralphs: Thank you. Zaremba: But there are issues we are going to have to discuss. Ralphs: Certainly. Zaremba: This is exciting to see something that's actually interesting for a change. I guess my question -- I like the idea of proposing lofts above some of the store fronts and my question would be about Building A, probably. If that's going to be a gas station and a convenience store, that's probably long hours of operation, early in the morning and maybe even 24 hours, but how practical is it to choose that building to have the lofts over? Residential may not enjoy having a 24-hour store below them. Ralphs: And we could address that when we find -- when we identify the tenants later on with that. That would be something that would drive the marketability of those lofts or where they ultimately would go into a -- more of an office type application. Zaremba: And, then, you might shift the lofts to one of the office buildings. Ralphs: Exactly. Zaremba: Okay. Centers: And the parking for the lofts, you're just proposing it would be the parking within the commercial area? Ralphs: Yes. And I would refer the Commission to the staff report. It indicates we have met and exceeded the parking requirements for this project. We have added some -- we have added some buffer. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting July 3, 2003 Page 66 of 91 Zaremba: No on-site storage for the people that would be living there? Ralphs: There is, actually, a number of storage units -- in fact, there is a storage unit actually right over in here on the other side of the railroad tracks. Zaremba: That's true. Ralphs: There is a considerable size storage unit there and, then, there is also one way up above there on Ten Mile and Ustick. Kirkpatrick: Chairman, Members of the Commission, I wanted a clarification from the applicant on whether when you -- when you did your parking counts, whether you accounted for the commercial uses, as well as the apartments that are proposed. Ralphs: Yes, we did. Kirkpatrick: So, will there be -- so, will there be any shared parking or will there be assigned spots for the residential uses? Ralphs: We can reserve those spots. Kirkpatrick: And it would exceed the parking minimums? Ralphs: Yes. Kirkpatrick: Okay. Centers: I have a question for staff and the applicant. We have one large commercial lot; correct? With proposed buildings? I don't see separate lots. Kirkpatrick: Actually, there are three commercial lots. Centers: The bottom line question is any building that goes in there they have to come back for a CUP. Maybe not. Kirkpatrick: I know for sure that the bank and the gas station will have to come back for a CUP. I'd have to look at the code to make sure that other -- to determine whether the other applications would have to come through for a CUP. The bank and the gas station would have to. Centers: Does the applicant know that? Ralphs: Yes. Centers: Okay. Thank you. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting July 3, 2003 Page 67 of 91 Ralphs: Now, I'd like to turn your attention -- and just one other thing, just to let the Commission know, we -- one of the things that we like about this project and including some of the residential in here. We did pay close attention to the Comprehensive Plan in looking at this possible transit station of -- not only is this going to be an employment destination, people coming into work at these shops. Also anyone would be able to -- really within just a few hundred feet be able to walk out of their home or their loft to be able to connect to this public transit system. We wanted to make that accessible and it would cut down on vehicle flow. Turning your attention now to the residential applications and as a point of clarification, can we go down to the one that would show the front elevation? Oh, that's prefect. Let's stop right there. That was good. As staff has indicated, we are asking for some changes to the setbacks and in working with staff what we have wanted to do is to created a very attractive appearance as you were coming down those streets, so that you were not looking at just a solid wall front of garages. We will go down here in a moment to the elevations, but we have actually staggered the entrances to the garages as well, so you're not looking at a solid face. Coupling that with the landscaping and the trelliswork above these, we tried to break up those outlines and softens it quite a bit with the green work. Could we go down to that elevation now, please? Perfect. Thank you. Just a point of clarification. These are attached duplexes. Now, does that still equate to four? Yes. These are going to be town home duplexes. You will have a unit in the bottom that will be athree-bedroom unit and, then, the unit upstairs is going to be atwo-bedroom unit. The property line is going to dissect this building or bisect. These are going to be townhomes and they are going to be marketed as for sale townhomes and so a person would be able to live in the bottom and rent out the top or vice-versa. I just wanted to clarify that. That's why the count is what it is. Centers: So, you're going to market them as duplexes with a common lot line? Ralphs: Yes. Zaremba: A duplex attached to a duplex.. Ralphs: Exactly. Like I said, it doesn't change the unit count, but that's exactly what we are going with. Could we go up one, please? Okay. Our landscape designers have done a wonderful job in setting this out and I wanted to clarify. This would be a top view of these 4-plexes or the townhomes. Here you see the enclosed garages and, then, you would be able to access -- and these are breezeways or these would be covered parking or carports. What you see here would be stamped or colored concrete. This would be the stamp pattern here. It's kind of a flagstone pattern here that's represented. We have included a landscape buffer here between the carport area and the unit itself and also here on the sides. We have done that on both sides all the way along there. As you're coming down the road like this, you're seeing the side here of the building, plus the garage, and, then, you're picking up some landscaping. Now, if we could go up to the one before that that would show the layout of the different cars. One of the biggest concerns when putting together something like this is just exactly how are people going to get in and out and what kind of vehicular flow are we going to Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting July 3, 2003 Page 68 of 91 have. What you see -- these larger vehicles that we have drawn in here are the size of Suburbans, so they will be fitting inside. We can address with CC&Rs on-street parking. We are not going to permit any permanent on-street parking. The driveway there, these cars you see here in the driveways, those will be for quest parking.. We would actually have two cars per unit. One would be able to come into the garage and the other one would be able to share a carport and so you would have two parking places per unit. Centers: Four per duplex? Ralphs: Yes. Centers: Okay. Ralphs: That's correct. We wanted to show this, that we have created a courtyard here with some landscaping features that would allow people to get in and out and address their parking needs that way. These cars down here, we will have them -- and if you have got them in your book or in the report, these are identified as guest parking. We are not going to have any permanent in front of the garage either. We want to keep this project looking really clean. Zaremba: On that subject, are you going to identify that they can only be there a certain number of hours a day and -- if somebody in unit three has a guest that's -- Ralphs: There for a month. Zaremba: -- there for a month and leaves their car parked in front of unit one's garage -- Ralphs: Then, we would address that through the apartment owners --the homeowners association. And there are ways to define that that addresses that concern. Zaremba: Okay. I'm just trying to keep the neighbors friendly with each other. Ralphs: That's right. That's a great point. Could we go -- could we go back up -- right there. I do want to flash back a little bit here to the commercial. You can see that we are going with a higher quality commercial application on all of these. Building D, again, being the bank and you can see the drive-thru. Building E and F, these are the two different -- there is an entry and, then, there is just an elevation. This would be on the east side of both Buildings E and F and, then, this would be the side that would face that courtyard area. Then, Building B is, actually, the one that fronts and you would actually go through that arch in the two buildings into the courtyard area. That concludes the presentation. There are a couple things I wanted to point out on the setbacks. I know there are some questions on that in the report. We had asked -- and as you see there on page two where we are starting to talk about setbacks -- I don't know if you have a revised one there, but the city requirements, for example, for a front Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting July 3, 2003 Page 69 of 91 setback is 20 feet. What we are asking for to accommodate that buffer of landscaping that we put in there between the car parking area of the unit is 18 feet. We are asking for two feet there. Also there on that report you will see the front of the house is 15 feet. It's actually going to be much farther than that, because the front of the unit is, actually, back behind the garage. The rear setback is the one that we are requesting to accommodate the off-street parking and also to accommodate the landscaping concerns between the parking areas and the unit it self. Zaremba: Just to do the math, if you origihally proposed aten-foot setback to the garage and a 10-foot rear, as you change the front garage to 18, that leaves you with only two feet as a rear setback. Ralphs: No. We would go with the math that I proposed. It should have gone with an 18. I guess what I'm suggesting is that that would be a typo. Zaremba: Eighteen would be -- Ralphs: Eighteen would be the front. Zaremba: -- the front garage -- Ralphs: Yes. Correct. Zaremba: But if you take that out of the rear setback, which was going to be ten, that only leaves you two. Ralphs: Right. It is actually going to be 10. What I'm saying is that the original math that was put in on the application was not accurate. Zaremba: Oh. Okay Ralphs: I wanted to direct the Commission's attention now going back to page seven of the report. There were a couple of issues raised by staff that we wanted to address this evening. Items Number 9 and 10 address phasing lines on the Preliminary Plat. This project is not going to be carried forward in phases. It's going to be just all at once we are going to be moving forward with it, depending on how market conditions are. We don't have phase lines and we don't have a calendar for different phases. Kirkpatrick: Chairman, Members of the Commission, I wanted a clarification. Are you including the commercial in that, that there will be no phasing at all in the construction? Zaremba: I was going to ask is there a phase between the commercial and the residential? Ralphs: No, there is not. What we anticipate doing is completing -- and if we could go to the site. Perfect. If we proceed here first, for example, and if the market determines Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting July 3, 2003 Page 70 of 91 that the residential is built out first, we would still, because we are not doing phasing, we would still be putting in all of the landscaping and all of the improvements along here. And that was the concern when you start talking about phasing -- I read in the report that when you start wondering if we are going to do it in phases, does the front look like a moonscape until you finally get caught up and the answer is no, we are going to go ahead and green that up. Actually, depending on the speed with which the commercial buildings go in, we could have some really nice mature landscaping as these buildings go in. Again, looking at some of these other points raised by staff, I wanted to direct your attention to Page 11, third paragraph down, addressing the front of the garage setback. If you go there to the bottom line of that paragraph -- well, actually, if you just take a look at that whole paragraph where it says front of garage setback, if you go there to the end of the line where it says the applicant wishes to reduce the front of garage setback to ten, that should read 18. We need to modify that, if you don't have that, staff. Then, also, if you go down to the bottom there where staff does not support this concept if parking is proposed in front of the garages. That, again, gets to Commissioner Zaremba's point about making sure that that remains as quest parking only and that permanent parking should not and would not occupy those spaces. I have nothing further and I will field your questions at this time. Centers: I have none. Any questions? Rohm: My first question is did you have a community meeting? Ralphs: We certainly did. We appreciate that recommendation. We had it two nights ago. We invited members from 300 feet away and, then, there were also some that came from an adjoining subdivision that is beyond that radius and we took feedback from them and I can actually address some of those concerns that they raised. I imagine they are here and they'd like to share those with you as well. Centers: The only contiguous city property, then, is just to the north? Ralphs: Correct. It's the Fuller property -- Mrs. Fuller, is it in the city now? Okay. It's not. Zaremba: Didn't we annex the church? Centers: Well, we have to be contiguous someplace. Ralphs: Then, it would be the church. Zaremba: We annexed the church to the south and there was some connection that the church had to the east or something. Ralphs: That would be correct. Centers: Okay. All right. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting July 3, 2003 Page 71 of 91 Zaremba: Am I right about that, that we did annex -- yes, I'm sure we did. Kirkpatrick: I didn't work on that application. I don't know. Our zoning map says it was RUT. I don't know if I looked at the most current source, though, of the zoning. Zaremba: It may still be -- Centers: Well, you know where it's contiguous to annex it, correct? Kirkpatrick: Yes. That's correct.. Centers: Okay. Kirkpatrick: Looking at some of the surrounding uses. Probably to the north of Pine Street is R-15 to L-O. I don't know if that's contiguous. Let me put up the site map. Probably to the north, that's the Valerie Heights Subdivision and a portion is zoned L-O, which I believe is contiguous. Centers: Okay. Any other questions? Zaremba: Yes. I would -- can you index to the drawing that shows cars coming in and out of the carport? That's a good one. I agree with how easy it is to get into the carports for a car moving forward. I can understand this carport backing out and doing that. It seems like this would be pretty difficult for these guys to get out. Ralphs: That's correct. This one will probably have to do a straight back out, just like these other two right here would have to do. Of course, if these lots are not occupied, I guess, they would also be able to make that turn and go out. In response to Commissioner Rohm's question about our community meeting, as we indicated, we did have it two nights ago. A couple of points were raised. One was about the likelihood or feasibility of schooling where the children would go if we had some small ones moving into this multi-unit facility. Two elementary schools are vying for that same place. There is Peregrine, which is off of Linder where the students would be bused, that is a traditional school, and Chaparral was a year around and that is to the west there across Ten Mile. There are no plans right now with the school board anyway to erect any new elementary schools there in that general area. The other question that was posed -- if we could go back to one that would depict some of the roadways there on Ten Mile and Pine. The other question that was posed -- and there was some concern and you will hear it here from the residents of the Thunder Creek Subdivision, but during the high traffic times, which would be high school at lunch and high school at 3:30 when it gets out, traffic here becomes quite a bit of a problem and so the question posed at our neighborhood meeting is what, if any, information did we have regarding ACHD's plans for putting a signal light there. In visiting with ACHD, they provided us with a printout of their proposed work schedule for this stretch of road from Franklin all the way to Ustick. There is a different times table for all of it. The roadway from -- improving Ten Mile Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting July 3, 2003 Page 72 of 91 - Road from Franklin to Pine -- and that would be making -- excuse me. Not that. Ten Mile Road from Franklin to Pine, turning that into five lanes. That project is going to start with professional services in 2004, with anticipated construction in 2007. The next phase that would go from Pine to Cherry Lane, also widening that to five lanes and, then, also widening Pine at that time to three lanes there at the entrance for the turning, the professional services on that would be -- start to be rendered in 2005 with construction completed by 2007. My understanding in visiting with ACHD is that those two times frame from 2004 to 2007, when they start to put those improvements in, that's the soonest that they would see a light and that's warranted by the car traffic counts that they do have. I think there was one more homework assignment you gave me and I forgot Number 3. Atkinson: The cut-through traffic. Ralphs: The cut-through traffic, how we could address that. I really haven't had a chance to sit down with ACHD on their recommendations. We have done a couple of things here that would render some slowing down. We have got an island here and an island here that would slow things down, but what Thunder Creek is experiencing right now that during these rush hour times that I mentioned is the high schoolers are cutting through that subdivision to avoid the delays here at this intersection, so they are using that subdivision to get there. Right now what we have here to show you tonight is that we have some traffic islands and would bring down some slowing. We could have a decreased speed limited in there and I have not visited with ACHD about the feasibility of any kind of speed bumps, if that would even be something we would want to do. I'd need to visit with them and -- you're not liking that either, uh? Okay. I think those were the homework assignments they gave me and I have nothing further, unless you have some more questions for me. Centers: Well, we had a number of people that have signed up, so -- Rohm: I have one more question. Who do you envision buying these townhouses? Retired folks? Young people -- families or -- what do you see as your market? Just curious. Ralphs: Well, we have actually -- and if you will refer back -- can we go back to the one that's the computer generated 3-D image, if we could? Anyone, in answer to the question? That's your quick one. Retirees would like this. It's close to some retail shopping and it will be close to the freeway on-ramp if it comes in here at Ten Mile. You have got a hospital in this area -- or an emergency care center. Also, as staff indicated, we have got these wondering paths and we have got a tot lot play area here for young families. I mean these could be like an entry level type where a new family would come in, they would have an investment opportunity if they wanted to occupy the lower one, the three bedroom one, and rent out the top one. You would have young families, you would have retirees, and you could have everything in between. Rohm: Just curious. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting July 3, 2003 Page 73 of 91 Ralphs: Yes. We are providing afacility -- and, then, I did want to address the amenities that we had talked about, because the park area is smaller than what the coding is, but we have put in this wandering path. The wandering path actually cuts right through here, through these two buildings, and it meanders around in here and it will tie back into this cul-de-sac. The tot lot will, actually, be in this sand play area here and, then, this will be the general park area for general recreation. Just as a side note, the fencing as we typically see on these drains, the Ten Mile sub drain is a year around drain, Nampa-Meridian has asked us to put in things like non-combustible fencing material, so if they ever going in for weed control that they don't burn anything, so we would anticipate a six foot chain link fence there to go along the drain for the safety of the children and also to protect that easement and right of way for Nampa-Meridian. Zaremba: You're leaving the drain open? You're not going to -- Ralphs: Well, we ran into this over on Mosher's Farm, if the Commission will remember, and for sidewalks and ending the sidewalks, we had to the back in a couple of sections for safety and so it would be whatever transition ACHD would recommend for something like that, but it certainly wasn't the whole part, because this is a drain. It's supposed to catch water. If we the it, it doesn't work very well. Thank you. Centers: Thank you. Well, we have a number of people that have signed up. I would say that if you could not be repetitive. A lot of times we hear testimony for or against and it just repeats the same thing. If you have something different, that's great. Mr. or Mrs. Garner? Got tired of waiting. Tracy Garner. The whole family. Irma Atkinson. You're up, Irma. Atkinson: Irma Atkinson, 1124 North Lightning Place, which is inside Thunder Creek, bordering on the Valerie Heights property. Yes, I'm sorry, I forgot the dress code, okay? Centers: You look fine. Atkinson: First, I crashed the neighborhood meeting and, then, I give them a list of homework assignments. I'm embarrassed. What can I say? When I look at a project I look at three different things. I look at traffic issues. I look at pedestrian safety. I look at the impact on the existing neighborhood. The good thing on this property is there isn't much of an existing neighborhood, so -- and I think the pluses are definitely that -- I think it's a good location for those -- okay, we are not calling them duplexes, we are calling them 4-plexes. For all those 4-plexes. It's close to the rail corridor and I think that's a good place for it so, I'm all for that. I like the fact they are two stories, as opposed to three stories, and I think that looks great. That leaves two concerns, pedestrian safety -- when I heard there was going to be a convenience store and a gas station and -- I think at the neighborhood meeting there was made mention that, you know, hopefully some form of restaurant, you know, sort of like out at Franklin and Linder. I thought that would be a magnet not only for my kids, but probably all the kids in the surrounding subdivisions and that was a concern to me, that except for Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting July 3, 2003 Page 74 of 91 immediately in front of the proposed development, there aren't sidewalks, so I always have a concern when I think of kids walking along Ten Mile or Pine. That's a big concern of mine. I'm sure Mrs. Wilder will address -- her kids would be some of them walking without sidewalks. I'm sure she's going to cover that. I did -- I mean I was fair about it, I did my own homework, too, so I'll pass these out. I e-mailed some of my questions to Craig Hood over at ACHD and I took issue with him, I believe, on Page 2 -- or Page 1 -- somewhere he says the district's -- the district's opinion was there is no traffic issues at this intersection and I take issue with that. I disagree, having lived there for three and a half years, you know, there is no physical improvements on the plan until 2007, so there is going to be no signal, nothing there. On Pine there are no -- other than the three lanes that taper from the intersection, there are no improvements scheduled for Pine in the next 20 years. Granted, that hopefully will change, but that's a concern to me. You know, there is -- in the ACHD report they estimate 1,436 vehicle trips per day. I think all I saw in the file the city had was there would be 560 vehicle trips generated from the residential part, but ACHD is predicting, you know, on their formula 1,436 vehicle trips on this intersection, which is already a bad intersection. I'm concerned about with Valerie Heights. I think in all fairness to them they were required and they were estimating -- Shirley, correct me -- I think it was 1,300 vehicle trips -- not even as much as this and they were, as a condition, you know, requested to put in a signal and sidewalks. I, think in all fairness, you know, something needs to be done at this intersection. You know, this is 2003. 2007 is a long ways away when you think of kids walking, when you think of traffic backing up there. Those are my concerns. Of course, the high school kids cutting through there, I mean that's a given to me that, you know, they are going to come up at the end of the day on Pine and not want to sit there and wait to turn left, so they are going to take a little detour to get out on Ten Mile. You know, we see it happen in Thunder Creek very day. Several times a day. Those are my concerns. I also try not to present concerns without possible solutions and I guess if, you know, on my fantasy list, maybe, you know, I would like to see a condition of this being signalizing that intersection and putting sidewalks, you know, at least on the west side of Ten Mile from the intersection to where Mosher Farms -- you know, they have been required to put in a sidewalk to meet that piece, so that there is a sidewalk at that signal. Minimum, you know, what would I settle for minimally, I would settle for turning lanes, you know, on both Pine and Ten Mile, because I mean four years is a long time to live in that neighborhood with all that development to the north and all that traffic, it's a long time to wait. I don't think that's fair to the people that live there. Questions? Centers: You pretty much know that we can't require ACHD to do things. Atkinson: Oh, yes. I know that. You can also recommend and -- to developers, as you did with Valerie Heights -- I mean I don't think ACHD wanted -- or asked Valerie Heights to do anything. Through some, you know, negotiation -- maybe not negotiation, but some discussion they went back and offered to do things, because they knew that's what needed to be done and that's the message that Planning and Zoning and City Council gave them. Centers: Okay. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting July 3, 2003 Page 75 of 91 Atkinson: Any other questions? Okay. Centers: Thank you. Did Lora Wilder want to come up? Wilder: Hi. I'm Lora Wilder, 3401 West Pine. We live on the dirt road just west of Ten Mile Road. If you look at that aerial view, it's the second parcel to the west of the identified one. Sorry I couldn't make the meeting on Tuesday. I had to work that night and was not able to come. I have a couple of things I want to address. First of all, I'm not against the project, I think it has a lot of great features and they have worked hard to make it a good project, but I do have a couple of concerns that I would like to address. The first thing I would like to address is we live on the dirt lane, we have only one exit out of our property to anywhere and that is that intersection and right now it's very difficult at times to turn right or left onto Ten Mile or to cross Ten Mile Road. There definitely is a traffic issue as was addressed three years ago during the Valerie Heights project and at that time the traffic services manager Terry Little wrote a letter that said that there was almost enough traffic to warrant at least a four way stop at that time and that was three years ago. If ACHD is not planning to require anything, because this improvement is in the five year plan and you can understand that, I would at least like to see at a very minimum a four way stop put in at that corner to help slow traffic and make it possible for those of us that live on that land locked piece to be able to get across the road or out on the road when we need to. The other thing is my children and the other children on that road get on the school bus -- on or off -- they get off on the corner, but they, actually, get on at 775 North Ten Mile, about 150 feet south of the intersection, which is about 80 feet away from where the entry to the gas station is going to be. There are no turn lanes, no shoulders basically on the road it's pretty narrow. I think that is going to be a safety issue and I would like to be sure that we have a safe school bus stop for those few children to get on and off the bus at that corner and I think if we did look a four way stop in that corner, which would be relatively inexpensive, it would at least help slow traffic. I think left-hand turn lanes on Ten Mile and Pine would be a really good feature to help provide safety for turning vehicles, because of the traffic that does back up there. Those are my primary concerns in looking at that corner. You know, again, I think Valerie Heights really took the lead and looked at a lot of safety issues. They were really pro-active in trying to provide a safe development that was going to benefit the neighborhood and I think that that really set the precedent and other developments need to at least -- need the same kinds of safety standards that they were required to meet or that they chose to meet to help make that project go. As a result some of those things ultimately probably derailed it, because it was a little too much. I would like to see that be at least a four way stop, maybe look at turn lanes and we really need to realize there is a school bus stop there really close to where that entry to that gas station is and maybe we can look at a solution to make that a safe place, especially in the morning when those high school kids are zooming by and if they have to stop of a school bus, they are probably going to be cutting through the development so they don't have to stop. Tthose are my concerns. Do you have any questions? Centers: Thank you. Shirley Fuller. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting July 3, 2003 Page 76 of 91 Fuller: Hello, Commissioners. My name is Shirley Fuller. I live at 890 North Ten Mile and I live directly north of this proposed project. My husband and I looked at the plans and we love them, we think they are great. We want the mixed-use, and we want this variety, the .spice that this project can bring to Meridian. I'm tired of seeing single dwelling homes all over the place and nothing but that. I mean I want something different for Meridian and I think this is an excellent project and my husband and I are totally for it. Thank you. That's all I have to say. Centers: Rod Ralphs. You signed up and you put for the project. Bert and Marie Tomas? They went home. Andrea Walter. Went home. Oh. Okay. Come right up. Walter: Andrea is at home with the baby. I'm Reese Walter. I live at 1148 North Lightning Place, up in the direction of Thunder Creek just north of this proposed project. Looking at the -- this is the first time I have gotten to see the project, I just heard rumors about it. It really -- it does look really interesting -- one of you two said you were really impressed with how interesting this looks. It does look interesting. I do have two major concerns, however. Number 1, I don't know what the requirements are for gas stations and placing gas stuff underneath the ground. However, it does look extremely close to me to the Ten Mile drainage. Perhaps you guys can -- you guys know more about that kind of thing than I do, but perhaps you guys can take a look at that. That would be a major concern is the water -- the water drainage through that area and a gas station not even a hundred feet away from the Ten Mile drainage. The second thing I do have concerns with, which was mentioned by the developer, is the flow through traffic. I see that there are those islands, they don't look like they would slow down any high schoolers, though. That would be one thing that I would suggest that you guys look at and perhaps put some requirements on. Any questions? Centers: Thank you. Anyone else here to testify on this application for or against? Would the applicant -- was he making notes? Would you, please, address some of them, please? Ralphs: Let's go first to the -- to the bus stop issue. The bus is on the west side of Ten Mile? Centers: We have to -- yes. We can't have conversations back and forth either. Talk into the mike. Ralphs: If it's on the west side of the road, I don't know what we can do on that. That's not our property. As far as the setbacks and allowing some distance in there, the green berm area here that you see on our project, we are mindful of what ACHD is going to do in the way of right of way, that's going to be a 96 footer. We are going to be putting our green space in here and, then, we are going to have our sidewalks meandering in here or, depending on -- that's what we did with Moshers, is we put our sidewalk instead of the flush with the road, we put them in here, so they can wander through, a little more visually interesting. We will have sidewalks on our property and that's what we can do Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting July 3, 2003 Page 77 of 91 and, then, of course, our sidewalks will be off the road the prescribed distance by ACHD. I don't know what more we can do about a bus stop, especially if they are being picked up on the west side of the road. That's not even where our property is. As far as traffic counts, ACHD has -- has a schedule based -- and I'm -- I can only assume that they based that on their research, which would be their traffic counts, and if while many of our intersections here in Meridian are particularly congested at rush hour times and at school times, they are driven by traffic counts and that's exactly what the response is and that's the time frame is what they have given to us. We can only go as far and as fast as ACHD will let it happen. Now, if some more traffic counts come in here, maybe they can increase that on their priority list, but I mean they are starting in 2004, which is -- we are there. As the commercial project gets in there, you're, really, one to two years away from seeing commercial in there and so it's going to be sometime before that commercial traffic adds to the count at that intersection and so the timing isn't going to be simultaneous, but I think it's going to be fairly close. The issues with the gas station, I think that would be addressed when we come in here for the Conditional Use Permit for a gas station. Anytime you install an underground tank there are certain EPA requirements and you gentlemen are very well aware of those and we will certainly abide by any requirements that they or any other regulatory agency has for them. Centers: You know, I haven't been down Pine and Ten Mile in a long time, but there is no stop sign at that intersection? Ralphs: There is on Pine, but there is nothing on Ten Mile. Centers:' Okay. It's just aone-way stop. Ralphs: Exactly right. Even Mrs. Wilder's -- the dirt road, I don't think you have a stop sign there on yours, do you? I'm sorry, I did that to you again. You can ask her. I apologize for that but there isn't one on Ten Mile. Centers: Can we talk -- can anyone talk ACHD into allowing a four way stop or -- I can understand that. Zaremba: Would you be willing to advocate that to ACHD? Ralphs: Yes. I'll go visit with them. I'll go visit with them and see what it would take to get that. Certainly. Centers: It's just an accident waiting to happen when you increase traffic at a one-way stop intersection. Zaremba: And you're allowing for future right of way, which their -- do you know what they are planning there, three lane or five lane or -- Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting July 3, 2003 Page 78 of 91 Ralphs: Pine will actually have three lanes there, so it will accommodate the turn lane that was mentioned -- inquired about earlier, so you will have a left turn lane there as well and, then, you will go five lanes onto Ten Mile but I will certainly inquire. Kirkpatrick: Chairman, Members of the Commission, another option would be if they want to put a four way stop, they could petition ACHD to work with them to put in a small bus stop on the northern edge of the property there -- or the north -- it is the north? Well, asmall -- Centers: City bus stop? Kirkpatrick: For the school bus. Centers: School. Kirkpatrick: If they weren't successful with the four way stop, that would be another potential solution to work with ACHD on allowing that within their right of way. Ralphs: I'll visit with ACRD and see what we can do to push that through, if at all, before this gets to Council. Centers: That would be beneficial for your self. Ralphs: Certainly Zaremba: Let me ask two other questions. On the gas station and, of course, putting tanks in, there is already mention in here that there would have to be lining and all that sort of stuff that you know about. Have you done any kind of study about how far down the water table is? Can you even put tanks there? Ralphs: We have done our test holes, as is standard with any development, and there is no contraindication of a groundwater problem that would not be addressed successfully with a liner. Do I think we have water that's, you know, from below? I don't have that information for you. I know we have done our test holes and I know that it's still feasible to put a tank there with all the protection. Zaremba: What I was worried about is they fill up the tank and cars take gas out of it and, suddenly, the tanks only a quarter full and the water table pushes it up out of the ground. Ralphs: Exactly. Zaremba: So you'll study those things, too? Ralphs: Certainly will. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting July 3. 2003 Page 79 of 91 Zaremba: Okay. Would there be any interest in adding a slow down -- for instance, designing this intersection, in addition to these little islands that bump out there, designing this intersection to be a traffic circle? Ralphs: Oh, a roundabout? You know, that's a really interest concept. Those are typically reserved for ahigh -- high traffic. I can go back to our engineers, but it's -- you're looking at some things that it would just be a really high traffic area that may even be warranted more for Pine and Ten Mile than a subdivision or a residential street. Zaremba: I was only thinking of it as a traffic calming -- Ralphs: Sure. Zaremba: Slow the traffic down. Ralphs: Sure. Zaremba: But -- Centers: Anything addition? Zaremba: I basically like the concept. Ralphs: Thank you very much Centers: Thank you. Ralphs: Appreciate that. Centers: Thank you. Zaremba: A number of the issues that have been raised. I'm sure people are aware Meridian and all the cities in Ada county really have very little control over what ACHD does. We try and we kick sometimes and we try and put the arm on developers to put the arm on ACHD. I appreciate Mr. Ralph's willingness to advocate the four way stop and I do think the signal will come eventually. It may be three or four years away, but I think they will get that done. That may be the best we can do. Centers: Well, I think he could advocate the school bus stop, per the staff comments, so -- anyway. Yes. I think it's an exciting project. It has some imagination to it. Zaremba: Mr. Chairman, I move we close the Public Hearing on all three items, 12, 13, and 4. Rohm: I'll second that. Meridian Planning and Zoning CAmmission Meeting July 3, 2003 Page 80 of 91 Centers: Okay. Motion and second to close all three Public Hearings. All in favor? MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, TWO ABSENT Zaremba: Mr. Chairman? Centers: Commission Zaremba. Zaremba: I move we forward to the City Council recommending approval of Item 12 on our agenda, AZ 03-009, request for annexation and zoning of 11 acres from RUT to R- 15 PD and C-N zones for proposed The Courtyards at Ten Mile by Doug Campbell, Tom Bevan, DTE Developers, southeast corner of North Ten Mile Road and West Pine Avenue, to include all staff comments of their memo with a transmittal date of June 30, 2003. Rohm: I'll second that. Centers: Motion and second to approve Item 12 on our agenda. All in favor? Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, TWO ABSENT Zaremba: Let's see. Let me ask one question of staff. The Preliminary Plat has been revised slightly. Do we have the latest -- what date would you put on your latest copy of the Preliminary Plat? Kirkpatrick: The Preliminary Plat has not been revised. We received elevation drawings of the 4-plexes. Zaremba: Okay so, moving the buildings back eight feet -- well, that, actually, was just an error to begin with, right? They originally -- they are 18 feet from the street to begin with. Kirkpatrick: Oh, actually, excuse me, there won't -- we have not received a revised copy of the plat reflecting that -- that change in the setbacks. Zaremba: Okay. All right. Then, I think I'm ready. Mr. Chairman, I move we forward to the City Council recommending approval of Item 13 on our agenda, PP 03-010, request for Preliminary Plat approval of 31 building lots and five other lots on 11 acres in a proposed R-15 PD and C-N zones for the proposed The Courtyards at Ten Mile by Doug Campbell, Tom Bevan, DTE Developers. Southeast corner of North Ten Mile Road and West Pine Avenue, to include all staff comments of their memo transmittal date June 30, 2003, with the following changes. On Page 7, Paragraphs 9 and 10 can be deleted. The applicant has stated there are no phases -- or there is one phase, rather. I believe that's the motion. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting July 3, 2003 Page 81 of 91 Rohm: I'll second that. Centers: Motion and second to recommend approval on Item 13 on our agenda. All in favor? Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, TWO ABSENT Zaremba: Mr. Chairman, I move we forward to the City Council recommending approval of Item 14 on our agenda, CUP 03-020, request for a Conditional Use Permit for attached single-family residential. I would correct that to say attached duplexes, the net result being that they are actually 4-plexes, but we are doing a Conditional Use Permit for attached duplex residential, with commercial, proposed R-15 PD and C-N zones for proposed The Courtyard at Ten Mile by Doug Campbell, Tom Bevan, DTE Developers, southeast corner of North Ten Mile Road and West Pine Avenue. To include all staff comments of their memo, transmittal date June 30, 2003, with the following changes: On Page 11, the fourth bullet, front of garage setback, the first sentence should read:- The applicant wishes to reduce the front of garage setback to 18 feet. The last sentence in that same paragraph should read: Staff does not support this comment -- this concept, excuse me, if permanent parking is proposed in front of the garages. Staff and Commission do agree that temporary guest parking is okay. Let's see. I believe that's it. Centers: Would you be amenable to including in the motion the -- highly recommending that the developer push ACRD for afour-way stop at Ten Mile and Pine and relocation of the bus pickup? Zaremba: Yes, I would be happy to include that. So included. Centers: Thank you. Rohm: Second. Centers: Motion and second to approve Item 14 on our agenda. All in favor? Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, TWO ABSENT Item 15. Public Hearing: PP 03-013 Request for Preliminary Plat of 5 building lots on 2.69 acres in an L-O zone for Lynnwood Plaza Subdivision by Centennial Development, LLC -east of North Ten Mile Road on West Cherry Lane: Centers: We are getting there, folks. At this time I'd like to open Item Number 15 on our agenda, it's a Public Hearing for Preliminary Plat 03-013, for Lynnwood Plaza Subdivision and we will start with the staff report.