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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2001 04-12 Joint Ada CountyMeridian City Council and Ada County Commissioners Joint Meeting April 12, 2001 The Meridian City Council and Ada County Commissioners Joint Meeting was called to order at 2:30p.m. on Thursday, April 12, 2001, by Commissioner Simmons. Members Present: Roger D. Simmons, Sharon M. Ullman, Grant P. Kingsford (Ada County Commissioners); Mayor Robert Corrie, Ron Anderson, Keith Bird, Tammy de Weerd, Cherie McCandless (Meridian City Council); Jeff Patlovich, Patricia Nilsson, Kelli Ketlinski, Scott Cook, Nichoel Baird (Ada County Staff); Mike Ingram, Steve Bravo (Meridian Rural Fire Protection District Commissioners); Kenny Bowers, Shari Stiles, Gary Smith, Brad Watson, Bill Gordon, Will Berg, Tom Kuntz (City of Meridian Staff); Gloria Uscola (minutes recorder). Simmons: It is April 12, 2001. It is now approximately 2:30p.m. This is a meeting called, I believe, by the City of Meridian and we apparently have attracted a lot more interest than I thought we would have, so I would first like to apologize for the surroundings because we weren’t figuring that we would have this many people. Obviously, our conference room in which this meeting was originally scheduled could not handle this type of a crowd. Before we get too involved in this – although you might not believe it looking out on the crowd, it’s not a public hearing. This is a meeting, an open meeting – as all of our meetings are supposed to be, unless they are an executive session, this one is not. It is an open meeting, so I would ask the crowd to kind of, well, cheer softly or boo softly, I don’t care. What I would like those around the table to do is to please state your name each time you speak because the person who is taking minutes is sitting up – way up behind us and cannot see who is talking. So, she is going to have a tough enough time as it is. If you could do that so that she would be able to – when she goes to recording the minutes – be able to identify who is speaking. And with that, let the record reflect that all three commissioners are present and all of the members of the Meridian City Council and the Mayor are present. Mr. Mayor, I will turn it over to you. Corrie: Thank you Commissioner, Chairman, and to all of the commissioners of the Ada County Commission and our Staff and members of our council. One of the reasons that we wanted to talk to you today, is that – let me kind of get this started from the very start. About approximately five years ago we met with the – the City met with the County Commissioners at that time and we worked out an area of impact for the City of Meridian to do our planning and our growth and the growth issues. In carving that area out we worked with them about the sewer – able the sewer in gravity and plan for the future. Then, here a few months ago we did meet again with the County Commissioners and met with you and we talked about some of our concerns of the immense growth that Meridian is having. As the census had shown, I believe that we – in the last 10 years we had a 263 almost 264 growth in the last 10 years, so, we are growing very fast, as Ada County is. We now have some very grave concerns about this growth and what is happening to Ada County and in the area of impact, particularly of Meridian. We are – you, I should say, you are now beginning to get developers who are wanting to develop outside of the City annexation area that is contiguous to the City and in large chunks. Now I believe 100 acres to 400 acres that will be coming to you. We feel that we are going to have some very serious problems if those are allowed to continue in growth without being contiguous in the planned growth that the City of Meridian has. What we would like to do today is, kind of, share with you these concerns that we do have of this growth in the primary area of public safety and also the planning and zoning and public works, water and sewer. And with that I would like to have – if it was with your permission – just kind of give you an idea of our concerns and we’ll do fire, then we’ll do police, public works, planning and zoning, and then we will have the Council – if they have any other things – and then you can ask questions or whatever you want to do as far as the – talking with us or asking us questions. So, if we might do that, Mr. Chairman, I would like to invite the – I guess, we can start with one of our Council members is the liaison with the Fire Department, Mr. Anderson – and let him start, with your permission. Anderson: Thank you Mayor Corrie. I guess what we would like – Simmons: Ron -- Anderson: Oh, excuse me, I need to identify myself. Ron Anderson with Meridian City Council. What we would like to do is maybe start off and kind of outline some of the problems that this growth coming outside the city limits would actually create for us. I guess the big issue is that a lot of people seem to think that the only thing that it takes to expand a city is the ability to provide sewer and water, which is an intracle part of the infrastructure when you have development but, it is not the only thing. I guess, cities are faced with providing – one of the biggest things is the public safety. If you look at cities budgets, that’s where they typically spend the largest part of their general fund dollars, goes towards public safety as well as streets, roads, libraries, park systems, those types of things. So, there is a lot more, we feel, that goes into building a community, building a city and being able to provide the citizens the amenities they want and desire. In particular – we’ll start of with the Fire Department, but one of the problems with allowing these types of developments to go on outside of our city is response times. And, when an area is still rural in nature, it is very low density, not too many houses per acre, and it is actually a very low response if you will. If you take, for example a mile section of rural area, that may only generate in the neighborhood of five or ten calls a year and that is part of, I guess, the trade off of living in an urban area verses a rural area, is that you are going to naturally expect longer response times. For the Fire Department, response time is critical because there is kind of a window there that we try to get to those residents within a three to five minute response period and for a couple of reasons. Most of the fire departments also provide emergency medical service. So, if somebody is having a heart attack or not breathing, it is critical that we get to them within a four to six minute time frame just so they have a greater chance of survivability. When it comes to the fire side of it, kind of a – there are some rules of thumb that have to do with the way a fire starts and progresses. From the time a fire starts or ignites until it passes through the phases of fire and goes through the incipient and up to the free-burning stage, in most residential structures with the contents that we have in modern homes, that’s about a seven minute time frame. So, as you can see with the turn out time it takes to get dressed in your bunker gear, the response time it takes to travel to the resident, the time that it takes to lay your hose and be able to go in and attack the fire, it is critical that we try to keep those three to five minute time frames. What happens when we allow this urban density outside the city limits is that we then increase the run volume in those areas experientially and instead of five to ten calls that occur in that area, then we are looking at 50 and 75 calls that might occur in that same square mile. So, the run volume goes up considerably and we feel that that is a real hindrance to the Fire Department in the sense that as the city grows, we try to project where the growth is going, we try to go out ahead of time and purchase land prior to it all being gobbled up and developed, to locate the fire stations. Then, you have the capital expense of building fire stations, purchasing fire apparatus that are well in excess of a quarter million dollars a piece, anymore, the expense of hiring fire fighters, training them, those types of things. So, I guess, all-in-all, what it boils down to from the public safety stand point, and in particular fire, these urban densities outside of our city limits and outside the areas that we have planned for can create some real-life safety problems that we have tremendous concern about. I guess, that in this particular case the City of Meridian and the Meridian Rural Fire District, for informational purposes – years ago they went out and formed an alliance and they have what they call a Joint Powers Agreement, so, they purchase equipment together, they build facilities together, they supply the man-power. So, even though we are talking outside the city limits, it is served by the same equipment and manpower and those types of things, whether you are in the rural area or whether you are in the city area. At this point we are just not prepared to be able to protect the citizens out in those rural areas if they are allowed to develop at urban densities. I mean, it’s kind of a – when you go to the urban densities then you have to worry about exposures because the houses are built much closer together and the run volume and all of those things increase. We also have here with us today Fire Chief Kenny Bowers and we have two of the Rural Fire Commissioners, Mike Ingram and Steve Bravo. So, I would like to, maybe, turn it over to Chief Bowers now and maybe he could elaborate a little bit more on what kind of problems this creates when we allow these types of developments outside of our areas now—And ahead of us being there with the land and the station and the man-power to provide that protection. Kingsford- Mr. Chairman may I make a – Simmons: Sure. Kingsford: Question for -- this is Grant Kingsford, commissioner. Ron, those areas outside of the city limits that are in the Rural Fire District typically have a different fire rating than those areas inside that are covered by the city fire department by the rating bureau? Anderson: Yes, what happens is – there is the Idaho Survey and Rating Bureau and they rate every fire district in every city and they rate that on a scale from one to ten and ten being no fire protection at all. Then, ideally, what would happen is that when an insurance agent wants to quote you a rate on what they are going to charge for your fire insurance premiums, they would use those rates. But, there is not statute that requires them to use those fire service ratings. So, to be competitive in the market, what most insurance agents do is they quote the same rate in the rural as they do in the city and quite often even neighboring cities. So, for example, right now, Boise is a Class 3 which is – I think there is only six departments in the state that are rated at a Class 3. So, that is the best rating. And a one would be the best; a ten would be the worst. Meridian just finished up with their rating and it is a five in the city, but in the Rural District, depending from how far you are from a water supply, it is either an eight or a, I think a six, is that right, Mike, in the – close to the water supply? Ingram: The far corners to the plat are nine. Anderson: Okay, so there are various numbers that are in the Rural District right now, ranging from a six to an eight, to a nine, depending on how far away you are from a water supply. But, I guess – Kingsford: That answers my question. Thanks Ron. I remember when you were a student you didn’t go into near that much elaborate – I just wanted to know, I simply wanted to know if they were different classes. I understand the process. Thank you. Anderson: Thanks teach. Kingsford: By the way Ron, on an essay quiz you would have probably gotten a 98. Anderson: Bases on weight. Simmons: Once again, I apologize for the formality of what was an informal meeting. Anyone who wishes to ask a question please don’t feel that you can’t do so. Just please indicate who you are when you are asking the question and proceed. No, no, no, not from the audience, this wasn’t a public hearing, it was called – I appreciate that there is a lot of public interest and – believe me, by saying that I don’t want to indicate that your voices won’t be heard. I’m just not – I don’t think we were prepared for your voices to be heard for this meeting. So, consequently we are not only set up, but I’m not sure we have enough time. So, we will get to you, but please let us find out why we are here first and then we will start going further with the process. Chief. Bowers: Kenny Bowers, Meridian City Rural Fire Chief. I appreciate the time you guys have allowed us to come in this afternoon to meet you. Basically, our goal – and there is not much more I can say. Ron, as you can see, pretty well said it, but our goal, basically, is to reach our residents and our customers within a three to five minute time. In some of these areas that we are talking about of putting subdivisions in, the locations of these areas is going to be a ten to a twelve minute response time depending on traffic, of course, and weather. In some areas right now – clear out in the end of our rural area, we might only have five calls a year in the whole square mile. Maybe a grass fire, maybe an old shed fire, something like this. But you take a subdivision with 700 homes and a project that averages possibly three people a home – I’m sure that’s not the national average, but 2.83 people, somewhere around that area, per home. That is 2100 people. With our call volume that we do now, that would generate around 60 more emergency calls to just one subdivision in one year. That is approximately five percent of our total calls. That’s not including the auto accidents that will occur from all of the traffic on the roads and in the intersections. Some of these subdivisions are four and a half to five miles away from our nearest fire station. Some of the developers say that they are only three miles from our subdivisions. Where the problem lies is when we get to the subdivision with our emergency equipment, we still have to drive into the subdivision, sometimes half a mile to three quarters of a mile, weaving back and forth around in a subdivision to get them to an address and that takes time, that lengthens our response time. Meridian is a very young area with mostly young people, new buildings and new homes. It is a fact though, that as time goes on, people and homes do get older. This will create more calls in our area. Several years ago, Meridian Rural Fire Protection District, which these areas would lay on – were in, was almost bankrupt. We were down to no dollars, whatsoever. Pulling together with the Rural Commissioners, all of our customers, all of our people in the area, help from the city. Help from Ada County Commissioners, Roger was on at that time, to help us, we were able to get our mail levy up a little higher in the rural area to pull us our of bankruptcy. We don’t want to put the rural area in that predicament again by putting more homes out into an area that they will receive very little tax money from. Developers say that taxes from subdivision will pay for a fireman, but where would the money come from to build the fire station, the fire truck, or the other people to run the station. As Ron says, fire – excuse me, he didn’t say this, but fire does double in size every minute. So, the quicker we get to a call, the sooner we can possibly put the fire out and save contents. Medical calls are the same way. If somebody has a heart attack or something, we need to get there as quick as possible. So, by putting a subdivision that could be four to five miles away from our nearest fire station, is lengthening that response time. At this time I would like to have Mike Ingram, our president, of our Rural Fire Protection District say a little bit if he would. Simmons: Anyone have any questions for Chief Bowers? Ullman: This is Sharon Ullman, Ada County, you said in a subdivision with 700 homes, that generates 60 calls in a year. Can you tell us how much tax revenue that would provide for you? Bowers: Sharon, no, I could not at this time. –Kenny Bowers – No, I could not at this time. Mike would probably have that information, Sharon. Ullman: Okay. Simmons: Any other questions for Chief Bowers before we move on? Anderson: Kenny could you maybe elaborate too – Ron Anderson – Kenny could you maybe elaborate on what our current staffing is, too. Bowers: Exactly, at this – Kenny Bowers, Meridian City Rural Fire Department – we are going to get this down, yet – Right at this time we have 12 full-time firefighters, we have one full time fire chief, one full time assistant chief, and one administrative secretary. We have six new firemen that we hope that will make it through the academy within the next couple of months. So, that would bring us up to 18 people, 18 firefighters. And as you know, we are – did that come through –, as you know, we are way behind the curve on manpower and stations. Simmons: Any other questions? Bowers: Thank you. Ingram: I guess I get to be in the hot seat. What does that say, I didn’t go through Grant’s class. Mike Ingram, I’m Chairman of the Meridian Rural Fire Protection District. Kingsford: Actually if you had gone through Grant’s class you couldn’t have been able to read it anyway. Ingram: To answer your question, Commissioner Ullman, right now our levy rate – back in 1998 we went through the Sunset Law that allowed the Rural District to increase our levy rate from what it was. At the time, since we are a budget based organization or a district, we asked our patrons to – for $800,000. Not getting real technical with that, the levy rate, every year, changes. This year, currently it is at 0017 and anymore numbers behind that. One of the recent subdivisions that I have seen, I haven’t seen formal application for it, but I have seen a preliminary platting for it, was 852 homes at urban density. Applying that towards an average 100,000, I guess we are looking at around $170,000, that number of homes. That’s per year. Unfortunately, for each firefighter that we hire, with wages, benefits, and all that, through our agreement with the City, we are looking at being able to hire roughly three firefighters. And unfortunately, with that, where do I put them. I need a station, I need an apparatus, and rural just can’t – we asked our patrons once, I won’t ask them again for another override. So, with the planning that we have been able to do with the city we do have a longer term plan, up through ten years now, that allows additional stations in an orderly manner, I guess, is the best word I can come up with. Right now, if we add those in there, obviously, we are mandated to respond. What that response will be right now, I can’t guarantee. Ullman: Sharon Ullman, Ada County, can you tell me how much a fire station costs, how much the equipment to supply it costs, and what it costs to run it as far as staff? Ingram: In general terms, yes, get right down to the – Mike Ingram again – (inaudible) Kenny and Ron actually may have more accurate figures than I do. Roughly speaking, a fire station generally takes between an acre to an acre and a half of land depending on the purchase price of that, which is probably the biggest variable in that equation. You are looking at between one million to 1.5 million dollars to build and equip – that’s just living quarters type things. You are looking – a recent purchase of a new fire engine that we just had was a little over $300,000, just for the apparatus and then there is also other additional equipment that is purchases for that piece of apparatus, equaling around 30 to 40 thousand dollars. Kingsford: Mr. Chairman – Grant Kingsford, for Ada County Commission, since my history of school teaching has been alluded to. Let me just say that it seems to me that we have an answer, but we have no idea what the question is. We are hearing a wonderful dissertation, but I don’t know what the question is. If we are talking about, as the rumor has it, and as I kind of half ways gather from the document that I have been able to scan just as you were talking, you are saying you don’t want urban densities in the area of impact. Well, it is Ada Counties Comprehensive Plan that you won’t have urban densities unless you are on sewer and water. We have our particular standards for those requirements as well. So, I am not sure – I always like to know what the question is before I hear the answer. And by the way, this is not unusual, I read a zillion essays that I had no idea whether they knew the question or not. Simmons: Yes, I guess, I tend to be a little more blunt than Grant, but so far we have heard a lot about the M-word and the only one I’ve heard so far is Meridian. Are we here to hear that, is that what you are asking? Corrie: Mr. Chairman – Mayor Corrie again – I think that one of the things that we are asking is to take a very close look at annexation into the county of these subdivisions that are going to be coming or have come and are coming to you. One of the problems we are having is that when a subdivision – let’s say of 300 acres – comes to the county and they can supply their own sewer and water so they have their own sewer and water district. We know that United Water can do both of those. Now, we would just like to ask the county that – not to approve these subdivisions of this size and continue with the agreement that we had with the commissioners at the five year period, where we had a ten-year period in which to sewer, water and have a logical plan for growth in that area of impact. What we are seeing now is developers are telling the City, “No, we are going to go out there, we’re going to ask the county to do it and there is nothing you can do about it.” Well, they are, in a way – they’re right. It’s the county’s decision. What we are asking here today is that the county does not allow them to do that and they – the cause of the concerns that the city has – what incentive would a community of 300 homes that has their own water and sewer – later why would they want to hook up and become part of the city when they come out there for annexation? What is the advantage if they don’t have to? And consequently that’s – you’ve got a water and sewer and a community – it’s an urban sprawl that is out there in nobody’s land, except the county, and I don’t think the county wants to get into the -- some of the phase two wastewater situations and things that were being told that we have to do. Then there is – like we are trying to tell here – is some of the things like fire, police, water, and sewer to bring our case – point – to you. But, our original reason to coming here is to ask you to take a very close look at these developments that are coming and asking you to put in. And, that we’re – we do not think that that is a good idea, we’ve asked the County earlier to give us a ten-year plan. We’ll plan, we’ll put the sewers in, we can get the easements and we will do it in the proper order, but if it is just – comes out there and does it wherever they want, than that is not going to help us, it’s not going to help the county, we don’t think. So, the question is would you please put a – help put a stop with this? Kingsford: I guess you are aware of things, Mayor, that we’re not. That request has not been made of us and so, I guess – oh, yes my name is Grant Kingsford still and Ada County Commissioner – That request has not been made of us and so I guess that is something that is news to us. We have adopted a Comprehensive Plan that ties into yours. I know your Comprehensive Plan says that people will hook to municipal sewer and water system. We have adopted to that and so, certainly that would be an issue. As far as people that want to develop in the county at county densities in the area of impact, I – if I’m not incorrect – they could do that, but that certainly wouldn’t be the urban densities that you are talking about. Maybe we would ask Jeff to speak to that, but that is certainly my understanding. Patlovich: Jeff Patlovich, I’m the Director of Development Services for the County. Excuse my voice here. What we are doing is, we’ve adopted your plan, which calls for urban densities with municipal services within the area of impact within your urban service-planning boundary. I don’t know anything in your plan that we’ve adopted that calls for any kind of staging or sequencing or different areas. We’re finding developers coming to us because you can’t provide them – maybe it is just a pure logistics issue to get the sewer and water to them – they are coming up with alternatives that we believe meet what your Comprehensive Plan says as far as density and provisional service. Corrie: Mr. Chairman – Bob Corrie again – we are – I thank Grant for not being able – being told about these things, but we are, we have developers that are coming to us and telling us what they are going to want to do. And, we can see it coming down – you will see it. I mean you have seen one already, south of our town, which is outside our city limits, that – there is a gap. I think – what’s the name of that – but there is subdivision that came to the Council, here just very shortly and it’s outside of our area – it’s in our area of impact, but outside of our contiguous area that we can annex them. So, they are going to come to the county for a different purpose. But, we have had others that have come to us and said, “We are going to go for this to the County.” We just want to make the County aware and we want the County to be aware where we are coming from. And, I think that you are, well, -- you’re right. And I think you have an urban density of the County, that’s fine, but that’s – I think it is one every five acres, if I’m not mistaken. Is that correct? Patlovich: Mr. Chairman – Jeff Patlovich again – Mayor, outside of an area of impact, we have two rural zones. One is a ten-acre zone and one is a forty-acre zone. When you are in an area of impact – When Meridian expanded their area of impact we took all of those rural zoned properties and put them in a RUT zone, which is a five acre zone. That is in essence a holding zone until they can go to an urban density with urban services as called for in your plan. Mr. Mayor, Mr. Chairman, if I might. We have accepted an application for an urban development south of the City of Meridian. We have been talking with three other developers north of the City of Meridian, south of Chinden, still in your area of impact. So, we are well aware of locations of them – I can’t quote you name and verse and number of lots, but we have talked to three other developers. Corrie: Mr. Chairman – Mayor Corrie again – Thank you. I appreciate that. But, our main concern is that we want to make sure, where we stand, where the County stands (inaudible). We felt we had that understanding and now we know we do and that’s – but we want to make you aware that we have set up with you a plan and we want to follow that plan and if you have got your areas there that you can cover then I think I would feel comfortable. I guess I can ask any of the Council members if they would like to make a comment on that, too. But, if that be the case, I don’t have a real problem, but I just want to make sure that we have that understanding. Anderson: Mr. Chairman – Ron Anderson – again, I listened to an audio tape of a workshop that Mayor Corrie and some of the city staff had with some of the – had with you folks and some of your staff and it appeared to me that there wasn’t a full understanding of the entire commission and of your staff, exactly what all goes into the city’s process for planning. So, what we were hoping to do today was to try to paint a more vivid picture for you guys as far as what has occurred with planning from the fire protection to the police protection to the public works. Because, if we deviate from our plan then you basically are throwing millions of dollars and thousands of hours that have gone into planning for those areas as they – or have been projected to develop if we deviate from that plan. So, we just wanted to make sure that everybody is still on track and that they are willing to be patient and let the plan evolve without being pushed by the development community to bring these projects forward before the City of Meridian is ready and has the ability to serve those. Ullman: Mr. Chairman – Sharon Ullman, Ada County, again – I guess I would like to ask of the Mayor and perhaps fire and police folks. Who do you think is responsible as far – is it the government or is it the people who buy the homes, to ensure that they have this three to five minute response time, for example for emergency services? Do those folks have a right to say, “Gee, I want to live out there 12 minutes away and I like the house and it is the right price.” – should we the government tell them, “No, you can’t do that because we don’t consider you safe enough.” – or should we allow them to make that decision for themselves? Anderson: Ron Anderson again – I think neither us nor the citizens tell somebody that that is what they have to have. I think it becomes the expectation when somebody buys a piece of property. When they pick up that phone and they dial 911 and it takes 12 or 15 minutes for the engine to get there or for that help to get there, that’s when they, all of a sudden – it dawns on them and they realize, “You know what, I bought a home out in the country. That’s not what I wanted.” And unfortunately all that we can do is try to plan as best we can and try to educate people about what that is going to mean to them, but, again, it is a complete package of planning that we are talking about here. We are trying to tell you specifically what goes into those things to develop that plan. I have been in this business for 25 years and the Fire Service and most people don’t think about it and don’t even realize what they have for protection, until that minute when they have got an emergency and they pick up that phone and dial 911. When Kenny was explaining the manpower, what that equates to – right now, today in Meridian is that there are four people actually on duty, covering a population of 50,000 people. Numerous times, on a monthly basis – it happens probably 30 or 40 times a month, when there is more than one call that comes in to the 911 center and needs that help all at one time. We are spread so thin right now it just can’t get stretched any further. Ullman: Mr. Chairman – Sharon Ullman again – how would you folks feel about a community – a countywide fire organization? I know the consolidation effort in the early 90’s looked at the possibility. I know that the Whitney District is – now has an agreement with Boise City – and those of us in the Whitney Fire District are being served by Boise. How about consolidating all of the District and providing equal coverage to everybody? Berg: Keith Berg, Meridian City – I think, my opinion – I hope it’s the other council’s – in ‘72-’73 we made the mistake of going Countywide with roads. I am not for anymore countywide stuff. Anderson: Mr. Chairman – Ron Anderson again – my take on that Mr. (inaudible) is—my take on that is that Meridian City and Meridian Rural Fire Department is not opposed at any point in looking at efficiency, whether it is mergers, consolidations, whatever it is. We have actively talked with other districts and we have looked at that. At the point where we feel that it would benefit our citizens, we would be more than glad to do whatever. At this point it just hasn’t been shown to us that there was a benefit. Simmons: Yes, we can prolong this discussion as long as everybody around this table wants to, but I’m not sure that we need to go there, yet. Trish. Nilsson: Patricia Nilsson, Development Services Staff – when this issue was – the area of impact was discussed four years ago, in reviewing those expansions – part of our planned policy is to look at services and we did get a memo that outlined fire service plans, everything outlined in the County policy. I guess what I would – I think what we would need is an update to that. That is clear not played out as the City had thought it had four years ago. That is information that we should have. I would recommend as your Staff that we look with the City on being more strategic, at least with the Urban Service Planning Area. I don’t think it is in the commissioners, the county’s interest, the city’s interest, the developer’s interest, the property owner’s interest, to have such uncertainty of what is going to happen in the area of impact. And waste a lot of time in here – if there is somehow it can be tied to a capital improvements program that is comprehensive for the City on the timing of growth that we can relay the develop – you know, work that in the development process. I just think that we would all benefit from looking at that. I think that was a recommendation of the City’s Comprehensive Plan Consultant, I know that, at one of those committee meetings. I would really urge that we look into that. Simmons: Sharon. Ullman: Mr. Chairman – Sharon Ullman, Ada County – I’d like to – not necessarily today, if there is no time, but I certainly want to hear what these folks have to say. And as best I can tell, these people are here, and this wasn’t even advertised as a public hearing. Obviously, there are a lot of people in our community who are concerned about this issue and I’m not going to be making any decisions on anything until we get some input from – and you know, with all due respect, obviously yours as well – but, I want to hear from everybody. Simmons: Well, at this point, according to the good Mayor, I don’t know if he is asking us to make any decisions at this time. Grant asked the question and the answer was, “We are just trying to provide you with our input in terms of how growth is occurring in Meridian and we want you to take certain things into consideration.” That is a little different than what it was billed a day and a half ago. So, I am certainly listening to what the City of Meridian has to say today. I think that we have always tried to listen to what the City’s comments have been, in any city in Ada County, before we approve development. I would just like to say that at this point, Ada County is not in the sewer business and I certainly don’t have any plans to get into it. And there are an awful lot of steps that would have to occur for anybody else to get into it, especially not the least of which would be a DEQ approval. I think you are going to have a lot of folks that will have a lot of say, in terms of what would happen there. In terms of provision of services, I do appreciate where you are coming from, in terms of provision of services because what everybody – I hope you are not forgetting but, I'll just remind you anyway – we provide some services too and we are always concerned whenever we take up a development application, that we are going to be able to fulfill our obligation in terms of provision of services. We certainly would take into account, especially in your area of impact, whether – whatever we were approving would be outside your ability to provide services. I think that – I think we have beat you up pretty badly in terms of extending that area of impact a few years back and what we required you to do. Once again, what I would like to see the City of Meridian do – and I would certainly be willing, as an Ada County Commissioner, to participate in that process. – But, I would like to see us all sit down at the table with these folks sitting out in the audience and try to come up with a plan – because I think that, for better or for worse, we seem to be growing that way and I sure would like to see us make some provisions for that. But, once again, I don’t see us making too many decisions here. I think that we came here as an information – for an informational meeting. So, continue. Kingsford: Mr. Chairman, I just wanted – this is Grant Kingsford, Ada County Commission – I just wanted to make sure that everybody knew that while Roger is right, we don’t want to get into the sewer business, that doesn’t meant that Roger won’t be in the sewer. De Weerd: Thank you for that comment Grant. Tammy de Weerd. I appreciate Roger’s comments. I do believe we need to come up with a plan and a time line so that as developments are proposed or land is purchased, they have an idea of the plan and the time sequence that the city has in planning to – for the provision of those services. I do understand that the County has services as well. There are a couple of areas that they don’t do and that is municipal sewers or sewer districts as well as parks. And those are certainly areas that – Simmons: We try not to. De Weerd: Well, you haven’t in Meridian. Well, at one meeting it was told that you are not in the parks business. I do know you have Donna Griffin, who is a wonderful person, and she is very busy and preserving open space. They are not municipal parks, perse, that would serve urban areas, but – you know, we are trying to plan – we are committed to the area of impact. Once that area of impact went into effect, our staff got very busy trying to provide a plan to service that area. We want – we are very committed to that, as is our staff. I think that it would be very beneficial to work with everyone in this room to come up with a time frame, growth priority areas and maybe, as was mentioned earlier, sequencing or staging of those growth areas. So, I would throw my name in there to sit down and try and come up with a plan, along with our staff as well. Kingsford: Mr. Chairman – Grant Kingsford again – I think it has been eluded to by City of Meridian and I know that I have heard Roger say that – but, it is probably a good thing to have on the record again. It was between my two stints in government that this area of impact was negotiated. And it is my understanding, in talking with both Meridian and with Roger, that there was a ten year interval that ran with the conference – or, pardon me, with the Land Use Planning Act for getting services, basically, into that area -- that that has been eluded to and I think maybe that needs to be clarified on the record. Corrie: Mr. Chairman – Mayor Corrie again – First off, let me say thank you to the Commissioners for having the meeting with us. I do agree that we need to hear the voice of the people. Unfortunately, or fortunately, I think that you will probably hear two different things. One from the developer and one from the people. I don’t know but it seems that that is what we are hearing. Anyway, I do want -- ***end of tape*** Side 1 Corrie: hear what they have to say and think that they should hear it as well. As far as working with other departments and other cities, we are trying to do that to give the best service we can for the people, whether they live in Meridian, Ada County, or in our area of impact. So, again, I want to thank you for taking the time. Yes, I do think that we need another meeting. But, I just say today, thank you for clarifying what we thought was happening, but we weren’t quite sure. Now that we are, I think that we can full steam ahead and go from there where we need to go. Simmons: Could I ask just one quick question? —Roger Simmons -- I – We have talked in COMPASS and in other of those type of forums about the possibility of having a countywide or region wide waste treatment – waste water treatment facility or district or what you might want to call it. Now I know that municipalities who have invested millions of dollars, in terms of their treatment facilities, don’t really want to talk about that too much but is that something that might even be on the table? Corrie: At this point – excuse me Mr. Chairman, Mayor Corrie again – we have discussed it. We are not very happy about that type of thing, but I think it would, we would look into it if you want us to. But, we are not too favorable of that for the obvious reasons that you gave. Kingsford: Mr. Chairman – Grant Kingsford again – I keep telling Roger that he hasn’t had the experience in the sewer business. And he truly hadn’t. But, the sewers operate efficiently with gravity and to do it countywide does not work on gravity. I don’t know that Roger has been out there, but there are some of these things that they call variations in altitude. You can’t run that stuff up hill, economically, Roger. Simmons: Actually, I have seen it tried many times. No, it is something that not only – I wasn’t the one that came up with the idea, in fact, DEQ has proposed this on a couple of occasions. It is something that, I realize, we would have to have it planned on a region wide basis. But, realizing that everyone has invested tons and tons of money and may be a little protective of the investment that they have made, I don’t sense that that is going to be viewed too favorably, but I would at least like to hear us discuss it. Ullman: Mr. Chairman – it’s Sharon Ullman again – at risk of being booed, because I know probably everybody likes short meetings, not long ones, but it sounded to me like Meridian brought some folks here who were prepared to give little presentations. Maybe we could get a little bit of a brief presentation from those folks, if nobody else objects? Simmons: Did you have anybody else that you wanted to speak Mayor Corrie? Corrie: Mayor Corrie, City of Meridian – one that I think would be a good one for you to hear might be a quick synopsis by our wastewater treatment director and water. He’s got some statistics that, I think, are important for you to at least know that’s there. When he told me this morning what some of them were, I had my mouth open a couple of times. Simmons: Before he gets started and while he is getting set up. Let me just, for everybody in the audience – because I did receive a couple of phone calls and some of our staff received a couple of phone calls – I don’t know if my fellow commissioners, likewise, received phone calls – we are not talking about a moratorium inside of the area of impact. Is that correct? Corrie: Correct, absolutely. – For the record – Mayor Corrie – that’s absolutely correct. Smith: Thank you Commission Chairman, Commissioners, City Council Members, Mayor Corrie, and County Staff Members. My name is Gary Smith, thank you Mayor – Commissioner, former Mayor – We did a little bit of research for your meeting this afternoon and I brought along a map that shows our facility plan that is subdivided into service areas. I wanted to give you a little bit of background. Thank you Commissioner Ullman for asking for additional information, I appreciate that. I’ll pass out a little short blurb on what we have been doing as far as planning is concerned. To give you and idea, I requested from Mayor and City Council in 1993 that the City of Meridian begin a facility planning project so that we had a little bit of an idea of where we are going with our collection system and our waste water treatment plant. They granted that request and so we did launch into that facility plan. That first paragraph just outlines the expenditures that the City of Meridian has set forth since that time in planning both sewer and our domestic water system. It totals up about $400,000 that we have invested in this plan. Presently, our impact area covers about 25,400 acres. Out of this, we currently serve approximately 6,000 acres. Our estimated service area in 1997, based on our computer model, is approximately 4900 acres and by the end of 2001, this year, we will have added approximately 2600 additional acres. This increases our service area to 8600 acres approximately, which is just about 76 percent increase in our service area since 1997. The service area increase that we are working on right now is what is called the White Trunk Service Area, which is bounded by Ten Mile Road on the west, Ustick Road on the south, Locust Grove on the east and McMillan Road on the north. We are also working on the South Salute trunk extension area and that is generally to the east of Locust Grove from Fairview to Ustick and slightly north of Ustick and Eagle Road, on the east side of that. Those two projects, we are anticipating, will cost the city approximately 2.3 million dollars to complete and again we are working towards completion of those by the end of 2001. We have run into some problems, as everyone knows, development and community included, obtaining some easements for our White Trunk line. We are expecting that those easements will turn loose by the first part of May. I guess, Staff and Mayor Corrie and City Council can all say, without any hesitation, that regardless of where you look in the City of Meridian somebody wants to develop these properties, large or small. So, it has been rather challenging to figure out how this can happen in an orderly manner. I think that is what we are trying to do as Staff for Mayor Corrie and City Council Members, is to prepare a plan that is done in an orderly manner, that allows for this to happen. We are concerned that development in that north slew trunk area, which is bounded on the north by Chinden Boulevard, is going to result in a package treatment plant, individuals sewage treatment plant that will be operated by, we’re not sure, who. According to DEQ, they will be approvable. Water service would be provided by United Water without any hesitation. That will then become a community unto itself. There will be no reason for that area to become part of the City of Meridian, part of the City of Eagle, part of the City of Star. There is no annexation – no reason for annexation. Those folks won’t want to pay an additional connection for city water or city sewer. There is no reason to; they have already got that. So, that’s our concern, as Staff. As Mayor Corrie previously indicated, the City of Meridian has grown about 264 percent since the 1990 census and we have managed to keep up with that growth and I feel that the reason we have is because we have been doing planning and we have been trying to follow that plan. I would try to answer any questions anyone has. Ullman: Mr. Chairman – Sharon Ullman again – let me play devil’s advocate for a moment, since I live in Boise’s area of city impact. If these folks can get central water and sewer, United Water and their own sewer service, therefore having quote “no reason to be annexed by Meridian.” Why should they? Smith: Well that’s – excuse me, Gary Smith -- I think one of the things, aside from the sewer and water, we’ve already talked about and that is fire and police protection that is an issue, too. De Weerd: I guess Sharon – Tammy de Weerd – Sharon, I would also maybe like to elaborate on that – is that as we planned our city of impact, we as the incorporated municipalities, looked at where we wanted to be. When you do urban development and it is not going to be a part of a city and instead it is part of the county, I guess, county, in my definition is rural and it is not urban densities that will be serviced by a city. I guess, what I would like an answer is, is that what you see the County doing as developing new cities out there? Or, allowing us to plan for our cities? A Comp Plan is just a document that is backed up by ordinances and standards that the city wants to see. It is a living document that sometimes changes, and that sort of thing. That is why you don’t get into specific zoning in your comp plan. But, we committed to having that area be a part of ours. There is the force-annexation. We can go in and try to force them, there would be no reason for them to be forced, as Gary stated, but, they would be an island out there without a city and they would be a city density. We don’t want, in Meridian, to force-annex anyone. We want them to be a part of our area of impact and we want to take them in as we grow out in that area. We don’t want to cause the problems that have been experience of late, with the annexation issues. So, that – if these developments come in proposing five-acre densities and they fit within your specifications, that is one thing. But, when they come in and they start requesting urban densities – high densities – and it is in our areas, not only sewerable and water, it’s also environmental to our entire area as well. We want to be sure that that is done by a plan. That is the best way that I can answer, perhaps, that question. Simmons: Any questions or comments? Nilsson: Patricia Nilsson – Gary, do you have a capital improvements plan for the sewer in terms of the timing of the White Trunk and then the next trunk – and how that is going to play out over, you know, ten to fifteen years? Smith: Gary Smith – We are working on an update of our capital improvement plan right now. The Mayor and Council made a decision – it’s been a little more than a year ago – that they would like to see development take place in the White Trunk sewer area and the extension of the south slough along with the interest in development that is occurring in the southeast area in the Eagle Road- Overland Road intersection area. So, those three areas were of primary importance to Mayor and Council to see developed. Of course, that development is pretty much hinged on the installation of sewer – or as gravity, that is. Nilsson: Thank you. Simmons: Anything further? Anderson: Mr. Chairman – Ron Anderson, again – I guess, to kind of summarize where I feel that we are coming from is the City is not anti-growth. It is obvious from the fact that in our last ten year census that we have expanded 264 percent. We are working just as fast and just as diligently as we can to provide the services. We have done extensive planning. The only thing that I could say that we are asking today, is that we feel like the development community is even trying to push us faster than we are already going. We are – as the elected officials – are going to be the ones that are going to have to be there to answer the questions after the developments are in and they have taken their profits and left. We want to be able to put together this city that we are growing – this community – and we want to be able to manage our growth. That’s all that we are asking, is that you guys continue to support us in those efforts and let’s not deviate from the course, let’s stay the course and let’s plan our community because it is going to be here for – forever after that. We just need your help to do that. Simmons: Well, unless everybody is tapped out here, I just want to let you know that – I think that Ada County has tried to approach development in a responsible manner. I don’t know that everybody would necessarily agree with that. But, I think that we have. If we provide a high-density development outside of your city limits and far away from you to reach it with services, we are going to have to provide most of those services. If we leap frog we are not going to be able to provide those services efficiently. So, I guess, the only pledge that I can make to you is that I will consider each development on an individual basis and try to make, not only the best decision for Meridian, but certainly the best decision for Ada County residents because we are the ones – they are the ones that are going to have to pick up the tab. Anything further? Thank you very much. Meeting adjourned at 3:34 p.m.