HomeMy WebLinkAbout2001 11-27Meridian City Council Meeting November 27, 2001
The regularly scheduled meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:30 P.M. on Tuesday November 27, 2001 by Mayor Robert Corrie.
Members Present: Mayor Robert Corrie, Ron Anderson, Tammy de Weerd, Cherie McCandless, and Keith Bird,
Others Present: Stacy Kilchenmann, Mike Worley, Bill Nichols, Shari Stiles, Gary Smith, Ken Bowers, Elroy Huff, Tom Kuntz, and Will Berg.
Item 1. Roll-call Attendance:
X Tammy de Weerd X Ron Anderson
X Cherie McCandless X Keith Bird
X Mayor Robert Corrie
Corrie: All right, I will call the meeting of Tuesday November 27, 2001 at 6:30 P.M. regular meeting. Roll call attendance please Mr. Clerk.
Item 2. Adoption of the Agenda:
Item 3. Consent Agenda:
Corrie: The adoption of the agenda. Does anybody have any changes, additions, or corrections to the agenda?
De Weerd: No.
Bird: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Hearing none, I’ll entertain a motion to adopt the agenda.
Bird: I move we adopt the agenda as noted and also approve the consent agenda as noted.
Corrie: Okay.
Anderson: Second.
Corrie: Motion made and second to approve the adoption of the agenda and the consent agenda. Any further discussion? Roll call vote please.
Roll-Call: Bird, aye; De Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Anderson, aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Corrie: All ayes. Since we didn’t have a consent agenda, I didn’t need to do that did I? I’m learning as I go along, aren’t I? Just like grade school.
Item 4. Department Reports:
A. Treasurer’s Department – Stacy Kilchenmann:
1. Finance Report:
Corrie: Okay. Department reports, item 4. Treasurer’s department. Stacy Kilchenmann finance report.
Kilchenmann: I suddenly can’t see my paper and see you at the same time. So. To read the paper I can’t see your facial expressions. If you’re grimacing I can’t see it. I just had a birthday
and I guess it's related.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Corrie: I didn’t understand a word you said.
Bird: I didn’t either.
Anderson: Well, if you would use bigger print on this report maybe you could see it.
Kilchenmann: I know. It’s ruining my eyesight reading this tiny report. I paper clipped 2 sheets of paper that should be on your desk. Those are 2 reports that are going to be added
to the packet that were just finished moments ago. The first 1 is a vacant position report. What we’ll start doing, is if positions are vacant for more than a month, we’ll start reporting
on them. This will be in your packet and will go to the department heads as well. The reason I think it's important to start tracking those is on the second page of your report with
really tiny print is an overtime report. This is something that hasn’t been tracked before in the City of Meridian. Some of those costs are becoming significant to us budget wise. As
our budget dollars shrink we need to start tracking those and building some historic data so we can do a good job of budgeting for it or look and see if there's ways, if any of it's
controllable. We’re starting now, so we only have 1 month here. We’ll be looking at current month and year to date. We’ll be looking at actual compared to budget and actual compared
to the prior year. The 2 areas I guess, this month that kind of stand out are in the police department and the fire department. They’re both over budget if we go on a straight 12-month
trend (inaudible) budget figure. The fire department, you’ll notice I have down there, it says volunteer full salaries. That is not overtime. That is total volunteer salaries because
those are trending considerably less than we had budgeted for and they were last year. So, if we kind of net that against the overtime, the overtime isn’t as bad as it would appear just
in and of itself. These will be going to each
department head too. It's something that if we really have problems or it becomes out of control we probably need to look at holding positions open and not filling them as soon as we
budgeted for them. That’s 1 aspect of personnel costs that we can control. Are there any questions about those 2 reports? No?
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Good. Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I guess in addition to something like this it would be helpful if we had information from the departments that have such a significant difference between actual and budget.
Kind of give us an idea of why and where we’re going and how we’re going to cover it.
Kilchenmann: Yes. Mayor and Council. It isn’t fair to the department heads because I just barely finished this report.
De Weerd: No, I understand that.
Kilchenmann: So, that is something that we can start doing, especially on a quarterly basis, I would like to do full variance reporting. Where we actually have --. We look at all the
major expenditure categories and give reasons for underages and overages. That definitely would be something that would come from the department heads. If there aren’t anymore questions
on that 1 --. We also are doing --. That you’ll see next month, we’re listing the capital expenditures that were specifically appropriated. Then we’re listing what was actually purchased.
So, it's kind of a capital outlay budget actual tracking. That will be in your packet too. To the main reports. The first 1, on the interest. I’ve added a graph that has investment income
budget to actual because that’s another area that’s going to differ from what we budgeted. Probably, fairly significantly. I’ve divided it by funds. So, the first bar is the total interest
income budget. The second 1 is the year to date budget. The middle is the actual and the fourth bar is the prior year. That’s just so we can start looking at some trend analysis with
that too, which you know it's following exactly as we would expect with what's happening with the market. On the yield, the advisor income is in the red. They’re higher --. The reason
that they are higher right now is because of the longer-term investments. That’s where we really have our longer, further out in the future money. Our investment advisor told us that
right now he wants us to move the money into the Idaho Pool short term because he can’t do any better on the short term money. I think a couple of our recent bond purchases have been
like at 3.23 percent. I really appreciate his honesty in telling us that because he could have not said that and collected his fee. But, he has given us good advice and said to go for
the pool and as soon as that turns around, he’ll let us know. So, we just moved some more money. We keep trying to push, just keep our checking account at the minimum that we need to
operate and get through. So, we’re moving money around probably more than we ever have in
the past. Those of you that were on the investment committee probably noticed that. Okay, the second page of the portfolio distribution. That’s what we’ve discussed before. Then we have
the budget to actual comparisons. We’ve added special services, or I’ve added special services so Shari doesn’t feel left out. That’s Planning and Zoning, the Building Department and
Code Enforcement. We’ll be looking at their revenue because of course that’s 1 of the important aspects of special services is their revenue as well as their expenditures. You’ll see
that the Building Department, their actual expenditures have vastly exceeded their budgeted if we just trended that on a 12-month. Also, their revenues have vastly exceeded their expenditures.
I don’t think we have too much to worry about in the Building Department as long as their revenues --. You know, if they incur extra revenues they’re going to have to incur the extra
costs for that. That’s due to the increase in inspection costs. Then for the general fund, you’ll notice that admin has exceeded their budget. That’s because we pay all of our dues up
front. Like our COMPASS dues, and all of our transportation type dues. Everybody wants to be paid immediately. That throws our trend a little out of whack. Then the enterprise fund.
They look normal for their first month of operation. Some of their projects that are carried forward will not show up on the October statements because as we complete the audit and we
have a final number. We’re actually still getting expenses for projects for the prior year. They should show up, probably on the December statements. Then we have another new report.
A construction project report. That 1 is new. What we’re trying to do here is look at the budget over the life of the project compared to the costs over the life of the project. I think
that’s something new in Meridian, hasn’t really been done before. We’ll be trying that out as we go. I think after a great deal of research the budget amounts are right for that because
as money moves or budget amounts change we’ll try to keep on top of that. Are there any more questions? I asked Tammy --. Tammy had some ideas. I’d like to get ideas from you for reports
that would be helpful to you. She suggested that we have general fund revenue budget to actual, which is a good idea. So that will show up in your packet next month. Anything anybody
wants to see, feel free to email or call me or let me know. We can add it. 1 other thing I wanted to briefly talk about are your laptop, your laptop project. As you remember. We budgeted
money for you to have laptops and start putting things on your laptops versus carrying around paper. To make sure that project didn’t die, I talked with Terry and Terry did quite a bit
of extensive research looking at how much we had to spend and what was available and did a lot of research on what the market considers to be good and serviceable. You’re not going to
have the top of the line laptop but it's a well-rated moderate level laptop that should be good for your needs. He also bargained with the people that sell the laserfiche. We were able
to come in under budget and have enough money left over for him to install what you need and to do some training with you and get you going and so forth. So, if everyone is agreeable,
we’ll go ahead and get those purchased so we can get you started.
Corrie: What's the cost?
Kilchenmann: $10,000.00 the budgeted amount.
Corrie: How much for the computers?
Kilchenmann: $1,056.05.
Bird: A piece?
Kilchenmann: A piece.
Bird: Then he’s going to do what for the other 5,000?
Kilchenmann: Then we have to buy the laserfiche. That’s about $3800.00, the licenses and the maintenance agreement you need and so forth. We had actually budgeted 4,000 for that. We
come in like, for the hardware and software we come in $1,000 under the budgeted amount. We need somebody to install it on the computer and to show you how to use it and so forth. That
would be the other $1,000.00.
Corrie: Do we have the capability of burning these discs?
Kilchenmann: Don’t ask me any technical questions because I don’t know. I think so. I think we do on Will’s side.
Corrie: Okay. Do we have anybody over there Will that can do that? I mean, I don’t want to buy this yet if we’re just going to sit there.
Kilchenmann: I mean, if the capability existed on Will’s side, it's your side that we need to buy, purchase.
Corrie: I was going to say we’ve got to have some way to do this before we can --. I understand why we need the equipment after we get all the equipment needed to burn them, but we’re
not going to be able to use them until then. Then I don’t know --.
Kilchenmann: We can use them. As soon as we buy your side it's operable.
Bird: If we’re not getting them burned off, it isn’t.
Kilchenmann: Well, Will’s side has the Laserfiche capability to transport the information from him to your laptop. I think that was established before the budget item was put in.
McCandless: Is that true?
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
De Weerd: Speak into your microphone because the City Clerk is really particular about that.
Berg: No comment. Mr., Mayor, Members of the Council. We do have the capability of writing CD’s in my department.
Corrie: So, you can get everything on the CD.
Berg: I’m not sure about the capacity or any of that nature. I haven't been involved with the research but we do have the capability.
Nichols: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: No, Mr. Nichols.
Corrie: Oh, sorry. Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: Mayor, Members of the Council. Maybe what you could do before Stacy goes ahead and authorizes the purchase, is have Will do a dry dun for a Council meeting in terms of trying
to burn the --. Because a lot of the hard copies are going --. If they’re hard copy documents like those received from an applicant, position statement, that sort of thing will need
to be scanned in, in each of those folders. There's going to have to be some organization on the front end going in for you to be able to pull it up. You’re going to need to have that
part done at the front end and have all those bugs worked out of that before you do the --. Unless there's some deadline on the costs.
Kilchenmann: There is. Mayor and Council. Terry has worked with Will and Will’s software. He feels it can be done. I don’t think there's an obstacle. I think that the technology on the
1 side does exist.
Bird: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I have to agree with Mr. Nichols. I think we need a trial. We were told a year ago that our website was a guaranteed thing too. I don’t think it's ran consistent for a week. Has
it? I hate putting out, even though those probably are a good buy on laptop computers. If we’re not ready to run them, there's no sense in having that thing sitting around here. Money
can be drawing 2 percent in the savings.
McCandless: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mrs. McCandless.
McCandless: Stacy, did you say there was a time limit on this?
Kilchenmann: Yes, those prices are good until the end of December.
Bird: Okay. We’ll get time.
Corrie: Why don’t get –
Kilchenmann: I’m not sure that we don’t have somebody here. Unless we go full (inaudible) with the project we’re going to incur costs to have somebody test it. I mean, I feel confident
that the technology exists and that he knows enough to make it work. I don’t know where you would test it unless you actually bought the other part of the software.
Anderson: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Anderson.
Anderson: what I might suggest it that maybe Stacy could invite this gentleman to the next meeting and he could explain to the Council the technical, logical part of it and give us some
guarantees that it would be an operable system.
Kilchenmann: That’s a good idea. I was going to suggest that.
Nichols: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: Mayor and Members of the Council. Another thing that you could do is to write into his consultant contract with regard to the things that he’s going to do that it's a flat fee
and there are certain criteria, goals, objectives that are part of that. So, that it's a working system, the training is there, the Council is able to pull the stuff up, the clerk is
able to input the documents into the Laserfiche, anything that we can think of that you want to see out of this so that it is a flat fee instead of an open ended, hourly type deal.
Kilchenmann: Mayor and Council. I don’t think the project is that complicated that we need to write specifications for it. I think the best idea would be just to have him come and answer
your questions.
Corrie: I agree we need to have him come to answer the questions but I don’t like open-ended contracts. I mean, it just kind of puts a chill on my back because I’ve been through it.
I think if the Council so wishes, we can have him come to the
next meeting and explain to us. Then I would like to have Bill kind of work up a situation that we can have that so it's not open ended.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Corrie: That can add up to a lot of money I think.
Nichols: Mayor, Members of the Council. Some of that will come out of the next meeting in terms of what he says he’s able to do. After that --.
Kilchenmann: All he would be doing is showing you how to use the laptop. I mean, he’s not writing any software. He’s not adding any technology. I just thought it would be helpful because
we don’t have anyone, unless you know how to use the software and you’re familiar with it that it would helpful for somebody to kind of get you going.
Bird: How much is he charging us for this?
Kilchenmann: It would be like $1,000.00 if it's even that much.
Bird: He would probably waste that on me alone.
Corrie: Don’t feel like the Lone Ranger. Okay. Lets have him in the department reports Stacy. Have him come in under department reports and give us that information.
Kilchenmann: Okay. The final thing I had was that the auditors will be here Monday. They’re going to gang up on us in hopes of finishing as fast as they can. There’ll be 3 of them. There’s
5 of us. So, it's almost a 1 on 1 situation. We will be pretty busy with that for the next couple weeks.
Bird: Just keep reminding them of January 20th.
Kilchenmann: Yes, they know that. It's a very short time line to complete the fieldwork and write an audit, about a month.
Bird: The way you guys keep books it shouldn’t be that tough.
Kilchenmann: I hope so. Are there any more questions on the financial area?
Bird: No, very good report.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: Stacy, I guess 1 other thing that would be helpful to include in this report and I’ve noticed it's grown every time we’ve received it. They’re very helpful. I understand we’re
already receiving amendments to our budget. I think it would be very important to keep those in front of us so we know as they accumulate, what they are and if we’ve approved them.
Kilchenmann: Okay. They could be like potential amendments.
De Weerd: Yes, potential amendments and then also items that are being considered.
Kilchenmann: Good idea.
Corrie: Thank you Stacy.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
2. Bear Creek Park Funding:
Kuntz: Mayor, I can address that issue if you would like.
Corrie: Okay.
Kuntz: The second item under the Treasurer’s report was the Bear Creek Park Funding. It relates to No. 4. On my memo to the Council dated November 21st.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: Can we just put it at item No. 4?
Corrie: Yes. We’ll just add it to your fourth item down there.
Kuntz: Okay. Thank you.
B. Park’s and Recreation Department – Tom Kuntz:
1. Engineering Service Agreement with W & H Pacific:
Kuntz: Shall I keep going?
Corrie: Yes.
Kuntz: Mayor and Council. I had 4 items for your consideration tonight. The first 1 is approval of an engineering agreement with WH Pacific. As per my memo, after
several meetings with the Land Group, WH Pacific and primarily the developer adjacent to our 58 acre park site, we’re finally ready to re-address the irrigation ditch tiling project.
There have been some fairly dramatic changes in regard to the irrigation pond, primarily. Then of course the drain water issue which we are going to run to the north along Meridian Road.
We are asking for approval for an agreement for 37 50, $3,750.00 for the re-design of the irrigation tiling and then $414.00 for legal right of way description for ACHD for the sidewalk
along Meridian Road and future right of way that ACHD will be purchasing from the City as part of phase 1 of the park. I’ll stand for any questions.
Anderson: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Anderson.
Anderson: Tom, would you maybe explain to me why we’re having to re-design this? What's causing the re-design to be necessary?
Kuntz: The largest reason for the change is with the addition of the irrigation pond so that we have sufficient water source every night. We’re having to re-design some of the boxes
that the water actually goes into so that now we have a third distribution pipe going into the pond. Also we wanted to keep the pond a certain level during the day for aesthetics. So,
there's an outflow pipe and box that had to be re-designed. I think that was the major change, our park’s superintendent Elroy Huff is here tonight also. He might be able to add some
more to that.
De Weerd: Tom, was a lot of that due to the back and forth game with Cedar Springs and 1 time we were running it down the middle of the park. The next time we were running it along Meridian
Road. Is that contributing to some of this re-design?
Kuntz: Council Member de Weerd. That is correct. Because of having to meet some of the developer’s requests, some of this re-design costs are being caused by that because of having to
go back and forth. Are we draining the water to the west? Are we going to the north up Meridian Road? That’s added to the cost of having to re-design it.
Anderson: But, the bulk of the re-design is caused by the change in the size of the pond and wanting to keep the pond a certain level. Is that correct?
Kuntz: Just the addition of the pond so that we have adequate water every night.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Huff: I just want to say that –
Bird: State your name.
Huff: Park’s Superintendent, Elroy Huff. I just want to say that part of the lake re-design, which is about a half-acre lake is the fact that what we have tried to do is extensively
study and make sure that we don’t cause any problems for the City liability wise if we don’t distribute water adequately to the downstream water users. Also, for the lake is to make
sure that we have adequate capacity to make sure that whatever water we need to water 60 acres with, that we have it and make the best use of our resource. The lake is in the engineering
design, has made it a little bit more difficult to manage, the water. It's important that we still divide the water, send it where we need to go with it and use it without taking more
than what we have entitled to us. Part of the re-engineering problem that we’ve had with is that with that in there and distributing that water, there's a lot of technical stuff there
and we’ve had to have a lot of meetings to make sure that we cover our bases on that. That’s part of the reason for that re-design cost.
Bird: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Elroy, are we enlarging the tiling, the ditch size, the tile size?
Huff: NO, we’re not really changing too many things there.
Bird: Explain to me, the tiling is going down from east to west in the middle of the field. Is that the tiling that we’re talking about?
Huff: Some of the tiling is going to the west.
Bird: Okay. That’s going all the way through the whole park?
Huff: (inaudible)
Bird: Wasn’t that part of the Land Group’s original design, the tiling in that?
Huff: Of the WH Pacific’s original design yes.
Bird: Yes. Wasn’t that part of it and we’re not changing the size of it or anything?
Huff: Not significantly changing anything going to the west. Most everything that was changed was closer to the east side where all the water distributed coming from the properties to
the east to us.
Bird: Across from Voight’s property?
Huff: Yes. What we’re really having to deal with in the design is making sure that we have, on the east side of Meridian Road, we have an open ditch all the way to the canal. We have
to make sure that we distribute the water and that we never back that water up. That takes a lot of technical playing around to make sure that you don’t mess something up so that we
don’t flood somebody out. At 1 point in time, in the future, that ditch will be tiled. Then we won't have a problem. If it backs up some pressure it’ll still be good. We’re having to
really cover our bases further away from the site than what we want to in order not to be the cause of the problem.
Bird: Is some of this re-design coming from the stopping of Voight’s and then coming across the road and into us? Then carrying it on through which we’re responsible for getting irrigation
to the next point. I realize that.
Huff: Our water all comes from the canal. It's just a zigzag way that it gets to us. We have to make sure that we distribute it adequately without running any ditches over above where
we get it. That’s part of what we’re trying to do. When we first did that part of the design, the lake was not in that design. Finally we realized no matter how much water we have there,
in order for us to consistently a property of that size, each night or every other night, we had to have the lake. That’s the best way to manage our resource. We couldn’t water it on
a per gallon minute basis as the water came to it because we didn’t have enough. That’s why we ended up with the lake. That caused the re-design mostly on the east side.
Bird: Does the property not have an irrigation well?
Huff: Yes it does.
Bird: Where is that water going to?
Huff: we know that we can use the irrigation well. We have a 522-gallon per minute water right to use that well continuously. However, for the effect that it has on the neighbors if
it runs for a long period of time, we want to make the best use we can of our irrigation water.
Bird: Yes, I understand that.
Huff: Then we will use the well on a supplemental basis, maybe for a few hours in the evening to help fill, or a few hours during the day. But, we’re wanting to not tax that. However,
if we have a real drought year and we want to tax that well real hard, we have the right to do that.
Bird: That well will pump into the pond?
Huff: Right into the lake.
Bird: It's directly under the pond. Then the pond will distribute throughout the sprinkler system?
Huff: Yes, it’ll be picked up in the pump station.
Bird: Now, how’s the irrigation water going --? Are we going to tile over into the pond? Make sure that the pond is low enough that it will flow in?
Huff: Right. The water has to come to the main –
Bird: We don’t want to be like the golf course out there, have our ponds higher than our water.
Huff: We have to have the water come into the main box across the road. We can’t change any of those existing elevations. We have to make sure that when the water hits there that it
is all distributed about 4 different directions equally and that there's no interruption of that and that we don’t fluctuate our pond too much every night. Another reason for having
that pond is it's going to give us enough water capacity that if we have a problem and don’t have any water for 2 days or 3 days, we can draw from that without having to go without water.
Bird: Okay. Tell me where the re-design is? The re-design is down on the southeast corner where the water comes in?
Huff: Yes, just on the, about middle east side.
Bird: Middle east side? About where the pump is?
Huff: Yes, kind of where the irrigation pump is.
Bird: Where it comes in, where it comes across Meridian Road.
Huff: Yes.
Bird: Are we designing from the east side of Meridian Road across?
Huff: No.
Bird: Okay. We’re taking it from there and we’re going north?
Huff: Right where we pick it up.
Bird: Then we’re going north?
Huff: We’re going north and west.
Bird: And west?
Huff: We have a large check structure there.
Bird: I understand the north. Why are we having to re-design the west?
Huff: We really not re-designing the west. We’re re-designing that main box where all the water hits because now we’re redistributing it to the lake. Then on to the west and then on
to the north. We have to make sure that anytime that there's a problem or if 1 of the farmers comes over and shuts his water off, we have to make sure that water has somewhere to go.
That’s going north. We have to make sure that those flows, it's pretty flat so it goes kind of slow but it goes until it gets up to the north corner. There's a break where it will pull
real fast.
Bird: Okay.
Huff: We have done everything that we can do, talked to every other water user and done everything that we can do to try and not get ourselves because we’re the big player on the market
right now. We’re kind of the developer there. We want to make sure that we don’t end up in some kind of lawsuit over not distributing our water right. Unfortunately in this particular
case, we’re spending a little more money but I’m fairly confident that we’re doing the right thing.
Bird: Okay. You feel that this is a necessity that should have been picked up in the original deal?
Huff: Yes.
Bird: Okay.
Huff: Thank you.
Kuntz: Council Member Bird. Both Elroy and myself share your concerns and spent 2 weeks grilling WH Pacific over why we need to spend this kind of money on the re-design. We went down
and met with them at their office for 2 hours over a week ago. They pretty much laid everything out on what the costs are going to be. It was more than I thought was justified but after
meeting with them and explaining the re-design necessary on those boxes, making sure that the well water, which is only licensed for our site was not going over to their site. We just
feel like it's a necessity to make it happen and to make it happen the right way.
Bird: Is WH working directly for us? Are they working as a sub for Land Group?
Kuntz: For us.
Bird: Okay.
Kuntz: Directly.
Anderson: Tom, I understand the re-design costs but the change to use a pond now, that was our decision right?
Kuntz: Correct.
Anderson: That’s what is precipitating all this re-design?
Kuntz: Some of it was a result of the problems, or the curve that was thrown to us by the developer. In that, they will allow us to drain all of the water to the north as long as we
pipe the first 420 feet, which I’ve already brought to the Council. I brought an analogy and showed the different costs, upsize the pipe to the west and to the north. By having to put
that 420 feet in, we’ve got to design that 420 feet, the pipe itself, how deep it goes, what the grade will be on it so it matches the grade of the rest of the pipe. That is part of
that $3,750.00 is to design that as well as the box at the northern northeast corner of our property where all that water comes out of the pond and has to be basically redistributed.
That was also part of the cost. To answer your question specifically, the lion’s share of the re-design is to adopt our system to the pond but there is money in there that is an expense
that we’re incurring because of the developer. I hope that helps.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: If there's no further discussion, I would make a motion.
Anderson: Go ahead.
De Weerd: Okay. I move that we approve the agreement with Engineering Service with WH Pacific in the amount of $4,164.00 for the Mayor to sign and the clerk attest.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion been made and second to approve the request by Park’s and Rec Director for $4,164.00 for the Land Group, WH Pacific and ACHD right of way legal descriptions. Any
further discussion? Hearing none, roll call Mr. Berg.
Roll-Call: Bird, aye; De Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Anderson, aye.
2. Storey Park Master Redevelopment Plan and Phase 1 Construction Design Agreement:
Kuntz: Thank you Mayor and Council. The second item is the Storey Park master redevelopment plan, specifically Phase 1 construction design agreement with CTA. During last year’s budget
process, we requested $120,000 to do phase 1, redesign of Storey Park. I’ll acclimate you real briefly.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Kuntz: This would be Franklin Road at the top of the page. First Avenue on the left side of the page. Phase 1 would be what you see in this square. It specifically takes care of the
road coming from First Avenue, through the park and ending up at Franklin Road.
De Weerd: Tom, do you want to turn that a little bit so anyone out there can see it too?
Kuntz: The components included in phase 1 are to eliminate the lower road running in front of the chamber and over to First Avenue. Replacing that with turf and a brand new large playground
structure. Also included in phase 1 would be the redesign of this parking lot to make sure that the chamber gets their parking spaces and to make sure that we have adequate handicap
spaces for both the chamber and the park for the shelter users. That is it for phase 1. That would happen this year. We would like to get going on the design work for phase 1 now so
that we can start construction as early as February to coincide with the chamber of commerce redesign, excuse me, restructuring of their building. They’re going to break the ground,
I guess January 15th. They’re going to start right after that. Phase 2, which I didn’t want to discuss tonight but I can see there's some representatives from Western Ada, would take
into account some restructuring of the parking next to the pool. With the elimination of this playground area which this one will take the place of and the possible request to partner
up with Western Ada to add some parking along this road here. That’s phase 2 and there will be some discussions with the key players involved in phase 2 after this spring, prior to us
coming to our budget request next year. We want to make sure that everyone’s on board with phase 2 and that we’re in agreement with how we’re going to restructure that parking to everyone’s
benefit.
Bird: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Tom, has both the chamber and Western Ada and the speedway. You know when we met out there on the pick up, you were going to get with everybody and make sure before this was brought
forward. Has everybody been contacted and taken care of?
Kuntz: The only group that I’ve worked closely with is the chamber because phase 1 does not impact Western Ada or the speedway. I did follow up at your request and get both those groups
this map black and white as well as the survey that was done (inaudible). So, to answer your question specifically, the only groups that I have discussed phase 1 with at this point is
the chamber of commerce.
Bird: Okay. The chamber is in complete agreeance with this design?
Kuntz: Yes sir. I had a conversation with Joe Borton this afternoon. I received a letter from him and I believe the Council and the Mayor also received the letter. I would like to get
that real quick if I could. I was confused by a couple of statements in here and I just wanted to clarify those with him. The first one was at the bottom of the page regarding proposed
parking changes to Storey Park. The chamber had 2 concerns. One is that the 12 spaces which were put in by the chamber at the City’s request are equal and signed as such in the new plan.
My question was are those spelled out as 12 spaces in the lease? His comment was no they are not. I asked, how did you come up with 12 spaces? He says well I was just estimating. What
I will be doing to confirm that is having WH look at what's there now and come up with a more accurate figure on the number of spaces that are allotted for the chamber in the operation
today as we see it. 2 is, I voiced concern that if we sign those spaces as chamber spaces only and my experience has been that normally on, even a heavy day, there's only 2 or 3 visitors
parked out front. That if we truly designate 12 spaces that we have the potential of those 12 spaces sitting fairly empty a majority of the time. He agreed that the current spaces are
not signed for chamber that you know they don’t want to see spaces marked and then just sit empty. So, they would work with us on that issue to make sure it's a win, win situation for
both the park users and the chamber members. The next question that I had was in regards to his question on handicapped accessibility. I assured him that we are not just putting handicapped
spaces in one location to serve the chamber but there would be additional handicapped spaces for park users also. That we would meet all ADA compliance for the chamber as well as the
park. He was comfortable with that. The last question I had for him is on the second paragraph on the back page. The second paragraph from the end. It starts as a leaseholder of the
City property, in the park the chamber board was never asked to address whether the proposed changes are the best use of limited resources. Our stance on the matters listed above are
based on the assumption that this is the case. We obviously defer to the City Council on this issue as a budget decision. What he told me he meant by that was that they don’t see, they
don’t necessarily take into consideration the big picture of the park and that they defer to the City that this parking structure and paying for it is the City’s responsibility and not
the chamber. That’s the way that he interpreted that paragraph. I was a little confused on what he was trying to say. To answer your question Council
Member Bird, when I spoke with Joe today, they were in support of this concept for phase 1.
De Weerd: In support of the parking part of it?
Kuntz: Correct.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: Tom and I talked today. I had a concern that the major stakeholders and effected parties had not been talked to. I know most of the effect has to do with phase 2 but at our
last workshop I thought –
***End of Side One***
De Weerd: -- speedway, Dairy Board, WARD and the American Legion should be talked to about this plan. I would like to see that happen and maybe bring this up again at the workshop with
possible action the following meeting. I would like Tom to meet with those parties and address any concerns, answer questions and perhaps bring back comments before anything officially
is designed so that we don’t come back with new design costs to redesign something that we could have foreseen. That’s my recommendation.
Corrie: Tom, have you had anybody say anything about that design? Either of the other 2 parties?
Kuntz: No sir. The only communications I’ve had was to notify them that the maps were ready to be picked up. The night of the meeting down there at the speedway, Kenny Hamilton and Marty
Hill didn’t have a concern because it didn’t impact them. But I haven't talked to them since that meeting. I have not talked with Western Ada at all. I guess my feelings are that phase
1 doesn’t impact Western Ada although, maybe it does. That’s the reason I didn’t proceed meeting with them at this point because I didn’t think it was an issue.
Corrie: I can see where it might have, where the parking on that south side of going west there might. No. No.
Bird: Keep going west there Tom.
Corrie: Right in there.
Kuntz: Oh. That’s phase 2.
Corrie: Oh, is that phase 2? I’m sorry.
Kuntz: Yes.
Corrie: I’m ahead of myself then.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I guess my concern is that park is a wonderful example of a bunch of partnerships and players that are affected by the use of that park and parking considerations. American
Legion, the speedway, the Dairy board and Western Ada Recreation District are all key in that area, and the chamber are all key and you know these partnerships are important and it's
very important to communicate with each other and make sure we’re in the same page. Because of the intricacies and the way things somewhat overlap in the use of the park and the surrounding
properties, I think it's very key that we are all on the same page when we move forward with this.
Corrie: Okay. Tom, how long would it take you to get that information from them and time schedule?
Kuntz: Well, I mean, it would only take me a couple weeks. I don’t know if Western Ada would like me to come to their board meeting though because that’s the second or third Thursday
of the month.
Morrow: It's the second Thursday of the month. (inaudible)
Corrie: I guess. Does it have to do with this?
Morrow: Yes it does.
Corrie: Lets hear it.
De Weerd: Have you talked with Tom about it?
Morrow: No. I have not because we haven't had communication --. Very candidly, at our last meeting we first saw this and the discreptancy with respect to the property description for
Western Ada Recreation District. It seemed to me that I had remembered when we were having discussion with some of the old timers about the property adjacent to the speedway, that there
was some other property arrangement. In researching our archives, I did find within the last 2 weeks, a 99-year lease that exists between the City of Meridian and Western Ada Recreation
District. Our last board took the action at our last board meeting that we are going to hire an engineer to layout that property in terms of legal description so that we know what it
is that we’re doing with our property and how it impacts
everything else here. At this point and time it doesn’t seem to me that anybody knows where any of that really is. Our board felt that, even though there was screw up here at some point
where back when, that there had to be some remedy for that. Apparently the remedy in terms of that property was this 99-year lease that exists between us and the City of Meridian. How
it affects all this in terms of phase 1, I have no clue. We won't know until we’ve had that mapped out by an engineering firm. That’s the action that we’re taken. That’s what we brought
to you, to the Council, so that you stand on notice that there is a major issue there that does need to be resolved between all of us as players.
Corrie: You’re absolutely right.
Morrow: That’s why we’re here.
Corrie: Okay.
Bird: I told you there was a lease on it.
Corrie: We need to find out what this thing is about. We don’t want any surprises down the road.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
De Weerd: Do we have a known time frame on what that will take?
Morrow: No we do not.
Bird: Have you hired an engineer yet?
Morrow: No we have not.
Bird: Have you got the legal description?
Morrow: We have the lease, it has (inaudible).
Bird: The lease with the legal description?
Morrow: Yes.
Bird: Okay. I knew there was a lease on the ground.
De Weerd: Would you know by our workshop any time frame? That kind of thing?
Morrow: Well, we’ll be taking proposals from, obviously from (inaudible).
Bird: Come on up here.
Corrie: Come up here. I want to make sure we got it on tape here. Thank you.
Morrow: Walt Morrow, 2340 West Franklin Road, Western Ada Recreation District. We’ll be taking proposals from the engineers. Then our board will pick whoever it is that we’re going to
ask to run out this legal description and see where the ground is and does it match with the legal description of the property that was run out by your engineer that’s on this map for
our other property. That’s the procedure that we are taking. Obviously we only meet once a month. We will take that action at our meeting in December.
Bird: When did that 99-year lease start? 73 or 72?
Morrow: Keith, I don’t remember. I can’t tell you that off the top of my head. \
Anderson: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Anderson.
Anderson: Just a quick question for Walt. It seemed like the discussion that we had at that meeting that took place out at the park, was that your piece of property was the triangle
shaped one there on the corner?
Morrow: That’s correct.
Anderson: Then, what you’re talking about is a lease that may state something about some additional property to incorporate the whole building or something there?
Morrow: Well, this is speculation on my part Mr. Anderson. What I’m speculating is that somehow in terms of this lease it corrects all of this that’s incorrect here.
Anderson: Where the building is on half City and half Western Rec’s property.
Morrow: I’m assuming again that they corrected that after the fact. That the building was built, somebody did a survey and found out it wasn’t. So rather than deed it or resell it,
they simply decided to do a 99-year lease.
De Weerd: Is it going to go across the street though?
Morrow: I have no clue.
De Weerd: Phase 1 is only on the other side of that street.
Morrow: Well, phase 1 is in through here but it would impact obviously the (inaudible) here it would impact some of the stuff that goes on here. Then long
term, access. I’m simply telling you guys we don’t know what the lease describes in terms of property. I don’t know that it doesn’t effect (inaudible). I can’t tell you that.
Bird: As I recall that was a square piece and then when the Dairy Show Board gave what you’re calling phase 1of Storey Park to the City and then in 71 the Dairy Show Board deeded that
corner, they took that square off --. No, the corner to Western Ada and they got the wrong legal description. If I recall, that’s when the 99-year lease came up with the City to cover
all that area. I think it takes in your complete parking lot. I’m not sure.
Corrie: That would have to go further north than it shows there.
Bird: Because actually, I do not believe that their legal description that Western Ada owns, I don’t believe their whole building is on their deal. I think the engineer in fact at that
point, laid it out wrong and the swimming pool was already being built when it came to the notice of the people in the City, giving a 99 year lease on the property. I think it took in
most of that parking lot, if not all of it.
Corrie: Does it extend west then? All the way, where that road would be?
Bird: Mayor, I think it comes down. That property was just a straight square that the speedway (inaudible). Then they came across and squared it across and give that ground to the City
for the original Storey Park. Then in 71 or 72, I can’t remember which year, we formed Western Ada Rec so we could have a swimming pool. At that point, the Meridian Dairy Show Board
donated a square out there. Some how or another in the laying out of it, it got onto the Storey Park property. We had to go back in with the City and get a lease, a 99-year lease. I
think that parking lot is part of the lease. I think it covered practically that whole parking lot if I remember right.
Corrie: Well, my suggestion would be to get that done.
Bird: Yes.
Kuntz: Mayor and Council.
Corrie: Yes, Tom?
Kuntz: I’m just wondering if we’re really talking about 2 different issues here. In that phase 1, we’re not tearing up any of the road. It's only the existing chamber parking lot and
the road going towards First Avenue. I would like to move ahead in meeting with these groups to get that part of the project going so that we don’t miss our window of opportunity to
start construction with the chamber. Then, work with Western Ada to resolve this other issue.
Anderson: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Anderson.
Anderson: so, are you saying that your phase 1 doesn’t close that other entrance into the swimming pool parking lot?
Kuntz: No sir. We would not close that other entrance unless Western Ada agreed that it should be closed from a safety perspective. Those are all issues pertaining to phase 2 which again,
we were going to meet this spring and hash things out. Then come at budget time for a request. So, phase 1 is not in that area at all.
Corrie: The building construction, the chambers, starts in January?
Kuntz: I believe the letter states their groundbreaking on Tuesday January 15th at 1:15. They’re going to do the groundbreaking and then they’re going to start working after that.
Corrie: It seems to me that Western Ada, speedway needs to find out just exactly where they are. If phase 1 doesn’t have anything to do with that, they can be doing that while phase
1 is being worked on. You’ve got to work it with the chamber. The Council has to make that decision.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: Maybe if we could just get an update at our workshop and let the various parties work this out. I don’t think we’ll answer any questions tonight because no one knows.
Bird: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would agree with Tammy. I also, bringing it before the workshop, I will make sure that the president of the chamber or the representative of the chamber is here so that everything
can be formalized on this phase 1 at that time.
De Weerd: If that’s possible.
Bird: I don’t think the ground is going to go out into the --. If it goes any place, it might go into the road a little bit. It's not going to go into where the roads being taken off.
Anderson: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Anderson.
Anderson: I guess my feelings are similar to Keith and Tammy. I mean, I’m not sure exactly where the boundaries would go if there is a piece of lease, or a piece of land there in this
lease that squares that property up. I don’t think delaying it 30 days is going to have that much of an impact to take our time and find out exactly where those boundaries are. So, I
would be in favor of waiting and finding out because what Tom is asking for in this is $2500 for design. I think it's kind of hard to design something when you don’t know where your
boundaries are. I think we ought to just make sure before we jump into something. It looks like something that evidently what happened at some point in the past. That’s why we have this
mess now.
Bird: You’re right.
De Weerd: So, we can get an update at the workshop?
Bird: Yes. Mr. Berg, will you put this down on the workshop for the 11th?
Kuntz: Mr. Mayor. One other comment, if we can make sure that any information that Western Ada needs would be available through Dave Short at WH Pacific. He was the one who did the survey
in the topo. He could be very helpful if they want to connect him or I could help them get in touch with him.
Bird: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Gary, are you --? I don’t know who --? The City should have that on file somewhere but it seems like our bookkeeping and record keeping at times were pretty lack.
Smith: Mayor and Council. Councilman Bird, I don’t recall --. I do recall a survey for the approximate 15 acres where the baseball field sits, that was done at the time that I was involved
with Parks. I don’t recall any other surveys in that area. All the information that I had on the parks projects I turned over to Tom.
Bird; Okay.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: Will WARD be able to meet with Tom before the second Tuesday of December to kind of discuss this?
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
De Weerd: You can’t meet outside of that?
Morrow: (inaudible)
De Weerd: Would you be willing to do that?
Morrow: If we have the time to get it done (inaudible).
De Weerd: Regardless of what the survey says, is there any opportunity that you can get with Tom because I think there's a lack of communication. I think on both sides. Something needs
to change with that because that partnership is very important, I think to both entities and it would be very helpful if we can get both parties together to start talking about it.
Morrow: I don’t disagree with that (inaudible).
De Weerd: I’m not trying to point fingers at anyone. But, I think it takes 2 sides to communicate. Did you get the black and white copy of this that Tom had gotten to you? That is something
that we asked Tom to get to you. Then yes, it was a matter of 2 parties getting together. He didn’t follow through and neither did you. That’s neither here nor there. What I’m asking
is if we can remedy that and get you 2 together in a timely fashion so that some of these things can be discussed. This is not the forum to do it. I think it would be more effective
having you and WARD and Tom meet together and have some open dialogue.
Morrow: (inaudible)
De Weerd: I understand that Walt. If you can get together prior to your original meeting date, that would be helpful. If not, then we’ll just have to deal with it maybe under a department
report. We’re not meeting the fourth Tuesday of December. It's a scheduling issue.
Corrie: Tom, I have a question. If this is delayed, 2 months, is that going to foul up as far as the chamber is concerned in their reconstruction with what you’re doing? In other words,
can the chamber continue to do what they’re doing?
Kuntz: Oh, sure, Mayor. We’re not going to hold the chamber up. 30 days, 60 days is not going to be the end of the world. Again, I just would reiterate, 1 this was a budget approved
item. 2, the reason I didn’t contact Western Ada, I did contact the chamber is because none of the property that we’re working with belongs to Western Ada. That’s why I moved ahead because
I know that one of
the key issues is we want to get things built after they’re budgeted. I was just trying to move ahead with this. Delaying it is not going to cause any headache from our point.
Corrie: Well, it sounds like the Council wants to talk about this on the 12th, 11th of December. We need to see as much as you can get done by then.
Kuntz: Okay.
De Weerd: If we have anything accomplished.
Kuntz: Yes.
Bird: We should have something to talk about. The chamber will be here. We’ll get them here. We’ll get WARD here.
Corrie: Keith said he’d get the chamber here –
Kuntz: Council Member Bird, Joe Borton if that helps at all, the president has been our communication.
Bird: Yes. I talked to him this afternoon.
Corrie: Okay.
Request to Fund Chateau and Bear Creek Park Playground Equipment:
Kuntz: No. 3, we have an opportunity to purchase playground equipment that would complete Chateau Park and help put us on our way in completing the playground component of Bear Creek
Park. There's a 50 percent discount on all playground structures through the end of this month through game time. In your packets I ran off copies of what the equipment would look like.
The total for the 2 sites would be $38,000.00 versus 76 if we bought it outright, although I’m sure we would get some discount if we bought it outright at a later date anyway. If the
Council feels like this is something that they would want to act on tonight, to take advantage of the savings, there is a memo that was sent to the Parks Commission. It should be in
your packet, dated November 9th. That is a review of where funding could come from if we wanted a fund. Phase 2 of Bear Creek Park, I guess staff recommendation would be to keep it as
clean as possible and look at using the $40,000.00 reimbursement from the enterprise fund to offset this expense of playground equipment if Council decides they want to do something.
I’ll stand for questions.
Bird: Mr. Mayor. Tom, you lost me. We’re talking about playground equipment and all of a sudden we’re talking about Bear Creek. I realize the playground equipment is in Bear Creek, well
part of it but --.
Kuntz: What I’m suggesting is that if we want to take advantage of this discounted equipment, that we spend $13,000.00 to complete the Chateau playground and $25,000.00 approximately
to purchase the Bear Creek playground equipment. That’s equipment only. That does not include the soft fall material underneath. It does not include installation. It does not include
a curbing. At Chateau Park, the curbing will already be in place as part of the construction. The additional cost that we would incur there would for the soft fall material and installation.
Bird: What is that Tom? I see we’ve got Bear Creek here. I didn’t see Chateau.
Kuntz: it's normally about 50 percent of the cost of the equipment. At Chateau Park it would be approximately, 65 $7,000.00 for installation and soft fall. Bear Creek would be approximately
12,000 to 13,000. I believe the entire budget estimate as presented by the Bear Creek developer for the playground was $50,000.00. That included the concrete curbing, the soft fall material,
the playground equipment and installation. What this would do for us Council Member Bird is just give us a leg up on getting 1, Chateau completed because the playground is the only thing
that will not be completed in that part. Number 2, will move us along in getting the playground at Bear Creek, hopefully installed next year.
Bird: That soft fall runs about $1.00 a square foot installed?
Kuntz: I believe it's $18.00 a yard Council Member Bird. Then we just have volunteers install it.
Bird: You’ve got 7,650 square foot at $7,650.00.
Kuntz: The lion’s share is the installation costs of the equipment.
Bird: No, I’m talking about soft fall Tom, just the soft fall itself.
Kuntz: Oh, I’m sorry.
Bird: About $1.00 a square foot. I take it that's installed. So, what we’re enacting upon right now though is playground equipment at Chateau and Bear Creek, right?
Kuntz: Yes sir.
Bird: You’re talking about $40,000.00 just for the equipment? That price, 15 and 25 or was it 13 and 25?
Kuntz: 13 and 25, 38.
Bird: I mean, 40,000, we’re only talking about 38,000.
Anderson: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Anderson.
Anderson: I guess I’d like to make some comments here. I’m going to go out on a limb, stick my neck out. But, what the heck I’m a short timer. What does it matter anyway? I guess my
thought on these kinds of requests is we go through a budget process every year and we do that with considerable input from the department heads. We approve a budget. These kind of requests,
I don’t doubt that every department out there can find buys during the course of the year that they may want to buy something or bring it in but they didn’t budget for it. They may have
to just pass on those kind of things. I think this additional playground equipment as well as Bear Creek --. I guess, I’m perturbed and I’m put out that these kind of requests have to
keep coming before us. It's like we work on the Parks and Recreation budget 12 months out f the year. I think we already went through the budgeting process in this. I would encourage
the director to work on the projects that he had in his budget and to get those accomplished. Last year out of the projects that he had in his budget, he didn’t complete a majority of
those projects for whatever reasons, time delays, or whatever. I feel like we’re working on all kinds of other projects that would add additional money that would have to be budgeted
for and I think we ought to be working on the things that we did budget for and stop wasting Council’s time with new projects that were never even intended in last years budget process.
That’s my thoughts about this topic. I’ll get off my soapbox now. I just think these kind of requests are out of line.
McCandless: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mrs. McCandless.
McCandless: I couldn’t agree more and I’m not a short timer. I have been sitting here thinking about this for a long time. Some of the costs are just outrageous. I don’t know where the
money’s coming from. I think we’d better stick to our budgets that we make every year.
Bird: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I agree that it seems like we’ve always got some change coming up on the Parks and Recreation deal. Costs probably do seem a little high at times but I think that this is 1 department
that things can change on you. I am the most upset of anybody that all we looked at for 1 year was weeds at the 56 acres. This year, I don’t care what we do, we’re going to have some
green stuff coming up if Tom has to go out there with a can of green paint. I agree, I wish we could plan ahead a little better but sometimes opportunities come up. I don’t like it.
It seems like we’re always working the budget in the Parks and Recreation that take 1 thing from another. Sometimes maybe we’re a little hasty at what we decide that we need to do for
a year. I do believe it's very, very important that we proceed with some of these deals. On the playground equipment I don’t know. I think it would be the same as if Chief Bowers comes
to us and says you know I can buy a truck. We haven't budgeted this year but I can buy a truck for half price. It's going to save us a big deal, a lot of money. I think fiscally that
we have to look at it and it might be a prudent step in the Council’s views. We might have to take it from something else that we aren’t going to get developed this year. That’s my take
on it.
De Weerd: I’ll put my 2 cents in. I guess, we opened up a can of worms when we suggested entertaining how we could fund the additional activities at Bear Creek. That kind of opened up
some opportunities for the 40,000 from the enterprise fund on the reimbursement of the 56 acres. I agree with a percentage of everything that’s been said. I don’t like to rehash the
budget every meeting and every month. I think we need to learn to live with what we do. However I’m also 1 of those that if you’ve got a good deal, it's really hard to pass up. I know
our parks department is very well aware of the tight budget and they look for plenty of opportunities to save a buck, almost to the extreme. I would defend them in that regard. The fire
department and the parks department do have the advantage of having a set aside fund, the impact fees or a rainy day fund that if things like this come up, they do have the opportunity
to look for budget amendments. I don’t want that to be taken lightly however. If we can get 50 percent of playground equipment and we only have 1 working playground in the City right
now that kids have to even go to. I think we need to take a serious look at it and see if there is a funding mechanism to fund it and capitalize on that. I guess what is left here, is
if we purchase both of these, neither 1 of them would be erected because we wouldn’t have the installation and soft fall budgeted in there. Is it 1 or the other or nothing? I guess that’s
the question that I would have. It doesn’t make sense having them sit in there for a year waiting for the budget to be installed.
Kuntz: Council Member de Weerd. If you’re asking for a priority from staff, although the Bear Creek developer’s representative is here tonight, Chateau Park would our No. 1 priority
in that it would be the only item left to complete at that park. I know that we can get volunteer help, the Lion’s Club to help put the soft fall material in. I know with our staff assisting
the person who installs it for us, I know we can save some money there. But if you’re looking for priority, Chateau Park would be 1; Bear Creek would be 2 in our eyes.
De Weerd: Tom, I guess, I would ask you to think about that 1 more time.
Bird: Yes, me too.
De Weerd: Chateau Park is not too far from Tully, which is the only functional playground that we have going. Bear Creek is south of the freeway, which is actually in serious need of
that green space. We appreciate it's as far as it is. I do know that the Commission voted and it was a split vote, but as much as possible can be done to finish that up. I guess if we
did anything I would see Bear Creek as being a higher priority just because of the location. I would love to see, I mean, Chateau is just right down the street from me. Of course I would
love to see that happen but if you look at it with practicality to where all of our other things are being offered that probably would have more sense, in my opinion.
Bird: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would agree with Tammy on that Tom because we’re within a mile of Tully where I think it's time we get something south if we possibly can. I wouldn’t invite anybody to don’t
think we don’t need this type of recreation to go out to Tully Park on a Saturday or weekday and watch the little guys play on those things. That’s my 2 cents.
McCandless: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mrs. McCandless.
McCandless: I would like to know Tom where the priority is on the skateboard Park that we promised the kids last spring? We still haven't even gotten decent bids on it yet.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Kuntz: Council Member McCandless, that bids open on December 3rd. It's in our top 3 as far as priorities to get it done. We know how important it is and how important it is to the Council
and to the kids. If you’re question is, is funding these things going to jeopardize that? I guess, we wouldn’t have brought this before you if we thought it was going to jeopardize the
Skate Park.
Bird: It isn’t going to jeopardize the skate park.
Corrie: Tom, what happens if what you’re getting and seeing to do if the bids come in high again?
Kuntz: Mayor Corrie, depending on how high the bids come in. If they’re up around the area they were last time, we’ll manage the project ourselves and build it that way. We would be
relying on some in-kind contributions. We’ve already talked about concrete and excavating. If the bids are more in line with what we have budgeted, and we’re assuming they’re going to
be a little over what we have budgeted, we still plan on working with the contractor to see if we can’t get some in-kind contributions specifically concrete. The other thing, if you’ll
notice on that November 9th memo, we came up with $231,000.00 in potential funding options. So, we’re leaving our self some wiggle room, Mayor Corrie.
Bird: Make a motion, lets get this going.
Anderson: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Anderson.
Anderson: I guess I would point out Stacy’s memo dated 10 days after Tom’s that indicates that according to her calculations, the majority of the current impact fee balance has already
been budgeted and she estimates only 150,000 available. So, we have quite a discreptency of about $80,000.00 $81,000.00 between our finance director and Parks and Recreation department
head indicate our funds that area available.
Bird: Is that available or estimated revenue?
Anderson: I think they’re both a guess at this point because we’re guessing what revenues are going to be and everything else.
Bird: This isn’t projected or anything?
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. I think we’re confusing the 2. Right now, I think it's important to keep the playground equipment request separate from the rest of the Bear Creek. I would make
the motion that we approve the request for playground equipment for Bear Creek only and to include the soft fall and the installation within the $40,000.00 from the payback of the 2
acres of the 56 acres from the enterprise fund.
Bird: I’ll second that.
Corrie: Okay. Motion’s been made to include the --. Now I’m getting confused.
Anderson: I’d like a clarification on what we’re funding. Playground equipment for 25,000 at Bear Creek and what's the other thing?
Bird: The soft fall.
De Weerd: To include the soft fall and the installation.
Anderson: Where’s that listed at?
De Weerd: Not to exceed 40,000. That was part of the discussion that the soft fall and installation would be around 13,000. Is that what you suggested?
Bird: It's right here Ron, if you’ll look on the Bear Creek. This thing is so --. I mean, we’ve got Bear Creek on top of Chateau and you’ve got a --. Tom’s getting smart. The more figures
you put out, the more confused we get and the better it is to pass.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Bird: It's the playground costs under Bear Creek. I know that but --. The soft fall is, and I take this as installed at this price, $7,650.00 for 7650 square foot. That’s $1.00 a square
foot. Then the installation of the playground equipment, I don’t know what that costs. He says he can get the equipment for 25,000? That’s half price. What's this equipment --? Let me
ask you, in Bear Creek, Tom, equipment install is 29 5.
De Weerd: Yes, have you upgraded on that?
Bird: Have you upgraded or, that’s the equipment and the install.
Kuntz: Council Member Bird, I believe those figures you’re quoting there are from Matt Schultz, the developer’s representatives. He’s here tonight if you’d like to --.
Bird: Well, I’d a lot sooner let him buy it and install it.
Kuntz: I would too.
Bird: If he can do that.
Kuntz: I think we should buy the equipment and let them install it.
Bird: No, I mean, buying the equipment and doing it for 29 5.
Kuntz: I agree.
Schultz: Mayor and Council, Councilman Bird. Matt Schultz, 200 East Carlton, the developer of this Bear Creek Park and the Bear Creek Subdivision. I put those numbers together a few
months ago and ran them by Tom. I left 29,000 in there for equipment, not knowing what style, kind of --. It was a line item because Tom had told me that that was kind of the number
that we were shooting at at the time to spend. If Tom is getting that equipment for 25 now, it's probably a lot
bigger than the equipment that we had budgeted for 29, if he’s getting it for half price.
Bird: I was going to say, you probably had a swing.
Schultz: There was actually 2 swings and a fairly large thing. I’d like to see what he got for us. I haven't seen that yet. As far as $40,000.00 goes, part of that cost that’s in that
line --. I don’t have that break down so I can’t really review it. But I know there was included some access sidewalks. There was included a drinking fountain I believe, some benches,
just to make it a stand-alone unit. There is another line item that we are going to be asking for based on our Parks Commission meeting, which Councilwoman de Weerd was at that meeting.
Like she said there was some dissenting votes but the people that voted yes, I thought were emphatic about this project, I thought. I’m putting words in their mouth a little bit but
I thought they were very, very supportive hat this was a good project to move forward on and that Tom had shown a way to fund this without stealing any money from any other budgeted
projects. This new issue of a discrepancy of the budget, that’s stuff that I don’t know about. At that time, they made a motion and approved to move forward on this project. They didn’t
necessarily say lets spend 230,000. They said lets look at a bathroom and how much that’s going to cost. Lets look at these other items but we think it's a very good idea to move forward.
We of course were in support of that same motion. These final numbers, I think Tom’s going to still discuss the bathroom. That's 1 other issue. I think what we’re looking to do is to
come back probably after the first of the year once we get a bid on the bathroom with some very finite numbers that we can build this. We would manage it, construct it, and get it done
in a timely fashion. We’re real close. We’ve planted all of our trees. (inaudible) the ground a little bit. If it wasn’t for us running out of the warm weather we would have some green
grass out there. We’re just a couple weeks short. I think it's just a good example of this public private partnership where the City is a 50 percent member in it and so are. We’re really
proud to have the park and I think you guys should be proud too. I just want to thank you for your time.
Bird: We’re very proud of it.
De Weerd: Tom, have you upgraded this playground equipment? It seems to me that as the playground equipment at Tully park was around 32,000 installed with soft fall and everything.
Kuntz: NO, that entire project was 50,000. That includes the concrete curbing, the benches, soft fall material, installation and the playground equipment, which is for 2 age groups,
0 to 5 and 5 to 12. I’ve tried to (inaudible) near that in this project in that we have and there should be in your packet there. It shows 2 pieces of playground equipment for 0 to 5.
There’s some massaging to be done with that. If I don’t have to spend 25,000, I’m surely not going to.
*** End of Side Two ***
Kuntz: -- and Tully was just under 25,000.
Bird: The equipment itself? Then everything else added up to about, I think it was about 52 or 53,000, wasn’t it?
Kuntz: Yes, Councilman Bird, it was about 52.
Bird: It's a great setup.
Corrie: The motion was made and seconded for the $25,000.00 for the equipment including the softball field; in a total of I think you said $40,000.00.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Bird: Soft fall.
Corrie: Oh, soft fall?
Bird: I wish we could get the soft ball
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Bird: Boy, they really overcharged us for those softball fields didn’t they?
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Corrie: Tom, I’ve got a question. If this goes through, where does that put Chateau Park? Are we waiting another year for the rest of that to even come in or is it going to stay like
it's looking right now?
Kuntz: Chateau Park will be completed as weather allows, of course, completely except for the actual equipment will not be installed in the pit, nor the soft fall material. The curbing
will be poured, so there will just be hole there. I have had some communications with the Lion’s Club because they’re looking for a project this year, of having them possibly help us
purchase the equipment and install it. There may be some cost savings with Chateau Park once it's complete. A potential for a change order at a later time that could save us some money
that would allow us to buy some equipment. It's just hard to pass this up and the savings that it --.
Corrie: Any further discussion?
Bird: Call for a question.
Corrie: Okay, question’s been called for. Roll call vote please Mr. Berg.
Roll-Call: Bird, aye; De Weerd, aye; McCandless, naye; Anderson, naye.
MOTION TIED: TWO AYES, TWO NAYES
Corrie: There's good points on both sides here. I really think that –
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Corrie: You’re going to hear it 1 time or another. I’ll hold it but I think we’ve got to pretty well stick to what we’re doing guys. I do think that if we have a chance to save some
money on playground equipment (inaudible) soft fall area. I am going to vote aye at this point on this 1.
TIEBREAKER VOTE: THREE AYES, TWO NAYES
Corrie: (inaudible) but being right handed, this side (inaudible). I don’t know. Anyway, I vote aye (inaudible).
Bird: Say it loud and clear. Be enthusiastic.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Corrie: I’m just waiting for the other shoe to fall. Motion has been approved with the 25 including the soft fall up to 40,000. All right, Tom you got that 1.
Bear Creek Park Restroom Design:
Kuntz: I think I’ll just forego item No. 4 Mayor.
De Weerd: Good idea.
Bird: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Tom, to be truthful for 1, you’re not going to get a aye vote on me until I see the cost out of that restroom. I mean, I want a cost out. I want a cost, what it's going to cost
per square foot to build it out. I don’t want $115,000.00 estimate. What's the square footage of the building?
Kuntz: The only accurate cost out that I could give you at this point would be the Tully restroom. We are planning to make some changes in the restroom that would go into Bear Creek.
It would be smaller in size. In order to do that
accurately we need to work with an architect to get accurate figures. Otherwise we’re shooting in the dark.
Bird; Do you have any idea what square footage you need? What are you going to build it of?
Kuntz: NO. I can certainly get that.
Bird: You need to get that, get it to Matt and Matt can make some phone calls and get you an exact number. That’s the problem in our parks. We’re getting these estimates and they’re
always coming in 30 and 40 percent higher than what our budgeted estimates are. That’s what's really killed us. Come forward with an estimate that’s real. He can get you 1. All he has
to do is make some phone calls. You’re going to do it in block, if you’re going to have 6 toilets, 5 urinals, you know whatever you’re going to do. You could come up with that cost and
be within 5 or 10 percent. I don’t even want to enact upon this. I don’t think you can open a park without having those toilets in. But I want a true figure on what them toilets are
going to be. I don’t want $115,0000.00 because it might only be a 10 square foot building. I don’t know.
Schultz: Matt Schultz, 200 East Carlton. Mayor, Members of Council. Councilman Bird. The building as I see it --. Tom gave me the Tully park plans. I think it was about 1800 square feet
I think. Maybe a little bit bigger. I think this 1 is going to come in around 1500 or 1600 square feet but not knowing exactly how big Tom needs to make that interior maintenance area
and some other things, I think the path that Tom wants to pursue, --. I won't put words in his mouth. The thing that I would like to see pursued is to offer us some monies to secure
an architect. I know Tom has secured a very competitive priced architect. So that we can put together a set of plans and get it bid out. So I can stick this number to a contractor to
build. Instead of just an estimate that he could come back when he actually bids it and be 20 percent higher, like you said. That’s what I want to avoid. I would like to get an actual
hard bid from 2 or 3 competitive bidders (inaudible) 4, 5 whatever it takes. Lets get this thing bid and we’ll get it built. I think until we do that, finite plan it is going to be shooting
in the dark. It's kind of a cart before the horse and I think we need to authorize some monies. I think Tom has a number. I think it's relatively small. I’ll just leave it at that.
Bird: You’re telling me you’re asking for --. We’re going to build about a 1500 square foot building and we’re throwing $115,000.00? That is more per square foot than these office buildings
are going for.
Schultz: You know I agree with you. These numbers, --. I’m not a bathroom builder. I build subdivisions.
Bird: You get me a sketch of what you want, how many urinals and stuff and I’ll get you a dang cost.
Schultz: It's not what I want.
Bird: Well, what we need.
Schultz: It's not what I want. As a matter of fact, this bathroom is kind of a --. You know ball diamonds are something that if we had to pick and choose what we wanted first, it probably
would have been a playground versus the ball diamonds. But, like you’ve made the point, if you actually choose the ball diamonds which has been chosen by the City Parks department, by
the City then we need to put bathrooms in there. I’m kind of the messenger that’s getting shot here a little bit you know.
Bird: We’re not arguing with you.
Schultz: Right.
Bird: I just could tell you for this Councilman –
Schultz: it's a lot of money.
Bird: (inaudible). You’re not going to throw an 85, $90 square foot figure at me. I mean, I want to see, and it don’t come back to you Matt.
Schultz: Right.
Bird: All Tom has to do is pull the plans of that Tully Park restroom, size it down. You can go to builders and they’ll give you a cost. These guys do it all the time free of charge.
Schultz: We need to get a cost that we can hang our hat on and stick to it and get it --, you know not have a big surprise at the end. However that works.
Bird: That’s the problem. We get too many big surprises. You’ve set here and how many things have we got. We just, you know, our 56 acres after 8 years of designing and stuff we finally,
then we get an extra on it.
Schultz: We’re both in the same boat, as developers we do not like --. You’re a developer of parks. We’re a developer of subdivisions, surprises are not good.
Bird: That’s right. We’re not getting on you.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I just don’t see any advantage for doing this now versus our next budget year. That’s what my comment was last month. It still remains that. I don’t know why we continue to
discuss this. I know the Commission is recommending us look at this and that there are park impact fees that have not been allocated that were collected in years passed. If there's no
advantage for doing it now versus our next budget year, I don’t see why we’re even discussing it. Every park that we’ve opened, and you knew those ball diamonds were going in and you
knew there wasn’t a restroom going in. every other sports facility has port-a-potties. It can do for 1 season if it can even be played on then.
Bird: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Just a second. Now we just approved to put playground equipment out there.
De Weerd: Because of a cost savings.
Bird: Of a cost savings. You know my thought is take that phase 1 of Storey Park and take the money and put the toilets in out there, the restrooms. In the same token, I’m not paying
85 $90.00 a square foot for 1. I want a real cost before we go into it. That’s our whole problem. We come in with these half way estimates and we find out when the bids come that man,
we really, you know we budgeted 100,000 and every bid is 200,000. We’ve got to get some legitimate costs. I don’t think you can open up a full-fledged playground, or park, which that
is. Don’t get me wrong; I know this is helping the developer as much as it's helping us. I would hope that he would return some of the costs of the lavatories that way. But, anyway,
I don’t see we can open a park like that, especially now that we’ve got playground equipment going out there. I would not be in favor of opening that park if we don’t have restrooms.
Anderson: Mr. Mayor.
De Weerd: So, at Eighth Street Park, we need bathrooms there too.
Bird: Eighth Street you’re talking about a different situation.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Corrie: Mr. Anderson.
Anderson: Just standing on my previous comments about making a budget and then sticking and working within your budget. I’m not going to give Tom another tongue lashing on this particular
issue but I do agree with Keith in the sense that if you build ball fields it makes sense that the necessity is to have the restrooms.
I also agree with Tammy that given the timing of when these are going to be ready, we’re talking about a temporary situation and I’m a firm believer of living within your budget if at
all possible. I would put the restroom ahead of the playground equipment in this particular case. Since you’ve already approved the playground equipment then I would definitely not even
be in favor of this 1. I would be in favor of just putting some port-a-potties out there and getting through this season and then budgeting it next year and finishing it out. Maybe we
need to scrutinize these budgets a lot closer than what we have been and find out particularly –
Bird: Amen to that.
Anderson: -- what projects are in there and whether we agree with those priorities when they’re being presented.
Bird: I hope you have to go out there. I hope you play ball out there and have to change your clothes in 1 of those port-a-potties.
Anderson: You’re going to have some trees out there aren’t you?
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Corrie: Moving right along.
De Weerd: I really apologize.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Corrie: Does the Council agree that we need to have a little more information on this restroom design and costs?
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Bird: Yes sir.
Corrie: Okay. Tom, would you see that we get that post haste?
Kuntz: If we don’t, no?
Anderson: I guess I disagree. If we’re not going to fund it maybe we ought to vote on that.
Bird: Well make a motion.
Anderson: there's no point in making them go to the effort of getting the bids.
Bird: Make a motion.
Corrie: Or, we can have a motion. 1 way or the other. (inaudible).
De Weerd: Why do we need a motion?
Bird: Well, Ron don’t want to go forward with getting an exact or closer cost than just to throw out 115,000. So, we need to decide.
De Weerd: We’re just saying we don’t want to spend another cent trying to get these costs.
Anderson: I don’t want to spend any more money Bear Creek this year.
Bird: That’s what he’s saying.
Anderson: That’s what I’m saying.
Bird: I’m saying I want restrooms out there.
Corrie: Well, you can have a motion 1 way or the other.
Bird: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: (inaudible). I’ll make a motion that we proceed on at no cost, which it can be done, coming back with a more legitimate cost and design on the restrooms for Bear Creek and that
it be funded this year.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
De Weerd: At no cost.
Bird: At no cost, yes. Forget the last part.
Corrie: Okay, so your motion is to proceed at no cost to find a better cost analysis of the restrooms?
Bird: Yes. Well, the design and the cost analysis. Yes.
Corrie: Okay. Do I hear a second to that motion? Hearing none, lost for lack of second. Now, does anybody want to try something? I’ll get another chance then to shoot it down too I guess.
Anderson: I don’t know what the motion needs to say but I’ll make a motion that we not approve the additional expenditures being requested for Bear Creek in this year’s budget aside
from the 40,000 that’s already been approved for the playground and softball.
De Weerd: Soft fall.
McCandless: Second.
Anderson: Did I say fall? Soft fall.
McCandless: I’ll second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion’s been made and seconded not to add any more costs for this year of Bear Creek other than the last motion that we had for the playground equipment. It's been made
and second. Any discussion? Okay. Hearing none, I’ll have roll call vote Mr. Berg.
Roll-Call: Bird, naye; De Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Anderson, aye.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE NAYE
Corrie: Bear Creek is putting in the playground but we may have to go to satellite.
Corrie: Tom you were going to, this Bear Creek funding, you were not going to do that 1?
Kuntz: You just decided it. Thank you Mayor. I appreciate it.
Item 6. Resolution No. : Alcohol and Drug Policy:
Corrie: Okay. Resolution No. Alcohol and Drug Policy. 01-27? 372, all right. Resolution No. 01-372, Alcohol and Drug Policy.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Corrie: Tell us –
Nichols: Mr. Mayor, Members of Council. There's a resolution itself for the policy and there's a certificate of the clerk with the policy attached.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Corrie: Mr. Berg, if you would read the Resolution No. 01-372 by title only.
Berg: Thank you Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council. Resolution No. 01-372, a resolution of the Mayor and City Council of the City of Meridian to provide the findings and to establish
a drug and alcohol policy for a drug and alcohol free workplace, providing for goals and objectives of the City of Meridian drug and alcohol testing program, providing for prohibited
activities, discipline, employee assistance definition and providing guidance to supervisors and employees concerning their responsibilities for carrying out the program and which would
apply to all regular full time, part time, introductory, temporary, seasonal, or contract employees, volunteer firemen, police reserve officers, and all job applicants and providing
an effective date (inaudible).
Corrie: Okay. Is there anyone from the audience who would like to have the Resolution No. 372 read in it's entirety? Hearing none, any discussion? Chief, just for the record, everything’s
okay now with this that we discussed earlier?
(inaudible discussion from audience)
Anderson: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Anderson.
Anderson: I just want to comment that this is something that we started working on about; I think the first year Keith and I were on the Council. It's taken a long time to get the policy
drafted. We had to hire an HR person to assist us with that. We had to negotiate this with the firefighter’s union. It's been reviewed by the City Attorney. There's been a lot of work
gone into this particular document. It's something that I’m glad to see that it finally will be implemented and passed and become City policy before I leave the Council. With that I
would make a motion that we approve Resolution NO. 01-372, Alcohol and Drug Policy for the City of Meridian.
De Weerd: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion’s been made and second to approve the Resolution No. 01-372, the Alcohol and Drug Policy. Any further discussion? Okay. Hearing none, roll call vote Mr. Berg.
Roll-Call: Bird, aye; De Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Anderson, aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Item 7. Ordinance No. : Criminal Background Check Ordinance:
Corrie: Okay. Ordinance No., the Criminal Background Check Ordinance. 932, okay. If the clerk would please read Ordinance 932 by title only.
Berg: Excuse me Mr. Mayor, on the ordinance it's –
Bird: 902.
Berg: It says 902 that is referring to the previous ordinance that we had to amend. So, I would refer to the attorney if we need to have this ordinance amending that ordinance or create
a new number.
Nichols: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council. It should be the 01-932 Ordinance. We’ll get a new title page for the clerk but it should be the 01-932 number.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Berg: Thank you Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council. Ordinance No. 01-932, an ordinance of the City of Meridian amending Ordinance No. 01-902, to delete language in the first paragraph
of section 1-AE-3-Applicants for City employment, Criminal History Checks pertaining to providing for and authorizing the conduct of criminal history checks of applicants for City employment
positions and development of guidelines to evaluate criminal background reports, and to enact a section 1-AE-4 to be known as Authorization of FBI National Criminal History Record checks,
repealing all ordinances, resolutions, orders or parts thereof in conflict herewith are hereby repealed, rescinded and annulled and providing for an effective date.
Corrie: You’ve heard the reading of Ordinance No. 01-932 by title only. Is there anybody from the audience who would like to have it read in it's entirety? Hearing none, Council, I’ll
entertain a motion then on Ordinance No. 932.
Bird: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that we approve the Ordinance 01-932 the Criminal Background Check ordinance with suspension of the rules.
McCandless: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion’s been made and seconded to approve Ordinance No. 01-932 with the suspension of the rules. Any further discussion? Hearing none, roll call vote Mr. Clerk.
Roll-Call: Bird, aye; De Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Anderson, aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Item 8. Beer and Wine License for Lotus Garden Chinese Restaurant:
Corrie: We’re on a roll.
Bird: Were you aye too?
Corrie: Oh, yes. (inaudible). okay. Item No. 8 beer and wine license for Lotus Garden Chinese Restaurant. Chief, is everything in order?
(inaudible discussion from audience)
Corrie: Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
De Weerd: No.
Corrie: Then I’ll entertain a motion on the request for beer and wine license for Lotus Garden Chinese Restaurant.
Bird: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would move that we approve the beer license and wine license for Lotus Garden Chinese Restaurant at 2120 East Fairview Avenue.
Anderson: Second.
Corrie: Motion been made and second to approve the beer and wine license for Lotus Garden Chinese Restaurant. Any further discussion? Hearing none, roll call vote Mr. Berg.
Roll-Call: Bird, aye; De Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Anderson, aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Item 9. Water, Sewer and Trash Delinquencies:
Corrie: Water, sewer and trash delinquencies. This is to inform you in writing if you so choose you have the right to a predetermined hearing at 7:30 P.M. on Tuesday November 27, 2001before
the Mayor and City Council to appear in person to be judged on the facts and defend the claim made by this City that your water, sewer and trash bill is delinquent. You may retain a
counsel. This service will be disconnected on November 28, 2001 unless payment is received in full. Is there anyone present who wishes to contest his or her water, sewer and trash
delinquency? Hearing none, you are hereby informed that you may appeal to have the decision of the City reviewed by the Fourth Judicial District Court pursuant to Idaho State Code, even
though they appeal, your water will be shut off. The amount of the turn off list is $19,091.37. Okay, I’ll entertain a motion on the delinquency turn off schedule.
Bird: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that we approve the delinquency turn off schedule for water and sewer and that the service will be discontinued on November 28,2001 unless payment is received.
Anderson: Second.
Corrie: Motion been made and second to approve the delinquency turn off schedule for 11-28-01. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Corrie: Just for the Council’s information there will be a uniformed officer tomorrow at MUBS office. We’ve had some kind of a scare happen at the MUBS. People are kind of getting a
little carried with their water being turned off. We’re going to try and see if that kind of settles it down a little (inaudible). So, if you come in and want to raise cain (inaudible).
Bird: Just send them down the road to the jail.
Corrie: Yes.
Bird: The girls don’t have to put up with that crap.
Corrie: That’s true.
Item 10. Public Hearing: Planning and Zoning New Fees and Fee Increases:
Corrie: Okay. Public Hearing No. 10 is the public hearing for Planning and Zoning new fees and fee increases. At this time I will open the Public Hearing and invite the Planning and
Zoning Director to testify.
De Weerd: Do you want to swear her in?
Corrie: You are sworn in?
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council. These are the same fees that you had previously in your packets. We did present these to the Builder’s Contractors’ Association. They unanimously voted
to support it. We did add 1 additional fee at the suggestion of legal counsel, Mr. Nichols. That would be the staff prepared consensual annexation application for properties receiving
sewer and water service. Currently we have agreements for annexation when they get hooked up to sewer and water outside of the City limits. As part of that agreement, it actually says
that agreement is their request for annexation. This would at least compensate the City for having to prepare that ourselves. That would include the legal descriptions that had to be
prepared and staff time to prepare the applications. Of course, if they elected to do the work themselves, then they would only have to pay the normal annexation fees. We will monitor
these throughout the year to make sure that they are equitable. A lot of the fees also include, and this hasn’t been included previously in the fees, would be the time the Public Works
Department, particularly Bruce Freckleton, as they are not compensated for any of the time that they spend on review of these applications. The planned development fees have increased
substantially based on the volume of work that is needed for those planned developments. For example, the family center was a fee of only $275.00. That’s on going and a year after year
process until that will be built out. We do have new fees shown for the sign program that were designated in our new sign ordinance. We have included a fee for verification information
letters. We often get requests over the phone for what a property is zoned and what can be allowed there. We do that over the phone if they just will take a verbal requests. But if they
do request a written response then we will ask for that fee. Certificate of Zoning Compliance, we have not ever charged for those. That takes a significant amount of time. Alternative
landscape compliance review, that’s also outlined in our new landscape ordinance. The site plan modification, that would be for a review of approved plans to determine if they are still
in compliance with the original conditions of approval and whether they can proceed without going back through the process. The 2 items at the bottom, we’re having a lot of problem and
we’re burning up a lot of staff time with these occupancy inspections. We’re hoping that by offering 1 inspection at no charge, for the temporary and the final occupancy and then charging
for additional required inspections because the work wasn’t done that will cut down the number of times we’re going out. I had 1 subdivision this year that I went out 13 times on. Every
time, they assured me everything was done. No problem. I would specifically ask the items that had been done. Oh, yes they’re done and it still took me 13 times to make sure they got
everything done. That will punish the people that are abusing the system and hopefully reward the people that do it right the first time. Do you have any questions about any of these
fees?
Bird: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Shari, I don’t know if you’ve had time but do you have any idea based off of last fiscal year, of what kind of added revenues these new fees will bring?
Stiles: I don’t have an exact number. I know I told you that I would try to get that number together and I haven't as of yet.
Bird: I understand. These fees look very good to me. We haven't raised that much on most of them. We have added some new ones, which we probably needed to add. But, if you would do that
in the next month or so when you get a chance.
Stiles: Okay.
Bird: I’d like to know how much more revenue that can bring in.
Stiles: Our fees currently, well last year they didn’t even cover the attorney fees. It's not that we expect to recoup all staff time and all overhead because we do get money from the
building fees.
Bird: Yes. But you should break even. You should break even to a degree.
Stiles: We would have to raise the fees so --. I don’t know. We’ll just have to look and see how they’re doing with all the planned developments that we have going and see how these
work out. If it turns out that there's just too much in some areas and we need to tweak them a little bit, we can do that. If we get on track to review these annually and do any increases
we need to do then we’ll be in better shape.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I guess it's testimony enough that you don’t have any builders or developers sitting in the audience tonight wanting to testify against this. I know a great deal of thought
and time went into developing these costs. I really appreciate all the effort that you’ve put into this. These are good and I know I’ve heard comments from the BCA about these as well.
I appreciate you time.
Anderson: Yes, I just had a couple questions and some comment. I understand you solicited input from the BCA, but several of these fees effect other groups, whether it's somebody who
builds signs or somebody who installs landscaping or signs, as my wife does. I had some questions. Did you solicit any input from them and the sign program caught my eye because it went
from no fee to $150.00 fee. What is that entailing? What is the sign program? So, for any sign it's going to be $150.00 permit?
Stiles: No. That would be for like a center that will have a number of signs. So that they can come in at the beginning and get all of their signs approved at once.
Anderson: For a large shopping center complex?
Stiles: Right. Or an entire subdivision if they were going to have, like Silverstone is doing a sign program where DBSI is out there Western Electronics. When they start doing things,
they will have a sign program.
Anderson: How about an individual business just wanting to put up a sign?
Stiles: No. That would be just a regular permit fee. We don’t charge for those.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
McCandless: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mrs. McCandless.
McCandless: Shari, 1 thing just sort of jumped out at me. I don’t even know what it is. That’s request for verification information letters that you didn’t charge before and now you
want 35. What is that?
Stiles: That would be for people that call, up and request a letter from us to verify the zoning of it. We will tell them just over the phone what the zone is and they can determine
that through the Ada County Assessor’s office or several different avenues. If they request us to specifically write a letter for that, we will charge a fee for it.
McCandless: Thank you.
Corrie: Any other questions for Shari?
De Weerd: No.
Bird: I have none, Mayor. It's pretty good.
Corrie: Shari.
Stiles: Thank you.
Corrie: I doubt if the answer is going to be positive. Is there anybody in the audience who would like to have --? Oh, I forgot, yes?
De Weerd: Well, you just had to ask.
Corrie: Being a lawyer he would probably question it.
De Weerd: You are limited to 3 minutes.
Nary: That’s just perfectly fine. Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council. Bill Nary, 2140 North Todd Way. There's 2 things on this list that I guess have some concern to me. 1 of them is
an issue that’s come before the Planning and Zoning Commission before. I know we have an ordinance about it. It’s just something I guess I’d like you to think about. A citizen comes
and requests a zoning ordinance amendment. Now, basically under this fee schedule to ask to have a zoning ordinance amendment rather than simply coming to the planning department and
seeing how that fits in the priorities of the City of Meridian, they have to pay almost $500.00 just to ask to amend an ordinance that’s already existing. That’s not very public friendly
in my opinion. It's something I think you should at least evaluate. Is that something that really makes a lot of sense when citizenry want to impact the government? They want some access
to the government and they simply want an opportunity to see whether or not you as a body want to amend the ordinance as it exists. A $500.00 fee seems pretty steep to me in regards
to that. The other 1, and I’m glad that Council Member McCandless brought it up because I was a little confused. This is also; I guess, for lack of a better term, the request for verification
information letter. That sounds to me like something that’s sort of a Joe Blow fee. That somebody that calls you up and says I’m considering getting an Accessory Use Permit or I’m considering
getting something else, do you have a document that exists that tells me what the zone is for my location so I have something to go to my builder, my architect, or somebody else to be
able to make sure we’re on the right track. I don’t want to spend my money, or my engineer or architect or someone else unless I’m positive I know what that zone is. There may be existing
documents that under the public records act are releasable as a public record and you can charge a fee, but the fee of $35.00 is incredibly excessive for what you’re talking about. I’m
also going to guess that a majority of these requests, that if they don’t have a document and they have to create a letter can be done on a form. This is something that Joe Blow off
the street besides just developers are going to be asking for. That’s not very public friendly again to charge somebody $35.00 for a written document from the City of Meridian just to
verify what the zone is on the location that they already own. I recognize that it can be cumbersome but I think you still need to balance what's the needs of the public versus what's
the needs of the City? $35.00 to get a letter that’s probably going to come out of the printer in about 2 minutes after you ask for it, doesn’t seem very reasonable to me. I think there's
probably some need but again, I think you have to balance both the public records act when you have existing documents. Under the public records act, if you have that document, you’re
going to have to give it to somebody and $35.00 is going to be very difficult to justify to the District Court when somebody appeals you because your fee is excessive. Those are issues
I think you probably need to at least think about before you pass it. I think most of these fees
are builders and realtors and things like that, that it's the cost of doing business. But, at least those 2 fees, those aren’t necessarily always builders and developers. Those are people
off the street that really just want to know something about either their location or they want to access the government by finding a way to change the law, make something different.
That’s an avenue that I just think is awfully expensive to make it very inviting for anybody to want to come and ask to do those things. Thank you.
Corrie: Bill, I probably agree with you on the request for verification. The zoning ordinance amendment, let me ask Shari, is this what Bill was referring to? Is when somebody actually
wants to change the zoning?
Stiles: It would be somebody actually applying for a change in the new zoning ordinance.
Corrie: Does that make any sense?
Nary: For example, Mr. Mayor, when we evaluate at the Planning and Zoning level, when we evaluated--. What's the 1 off of Locust Grove? They brought a zoning ordinance amendment.
Stiles: Bridgetower.
Nary: Bridgetower. They brought their own amendment in because their project wouldn’t comply with the current amendment. Again, I know it's allowed by your ordinance. I mean, I’m not
saying it isn’t something that’s allowed. I’m not saying it's not something that’s not legal. What I’m saying is that I just think you need to evaluate what kind of access and what kind
of message are we sending when someone wants to change an ordinance that we have? The message should be, we should be able to --. They shouldn’t have to pay money to ask us to change
our own ordinance. They should be able to ask for nothing because we don’t have to change it. If it requires some staff work the other side, that’s an internal cost of business for the
City. We have to have some responsibility to know whether or not we’re going to do that. We’re not obligated to do it. So, I think we at least need to evaluate is that sending the right
message out to the public. If it's under the Planning and Zoning code, that applies to any ordinance in there. Now the fee is going to go up almost 3 times. Like I said, it's not that
you can’t do. I’m just saying it's something that I think in evaluating the big picture is that the right message to send in the cost of providing access to the public, with what they
want to do? Bridgetower is probably the best example because they did. They wrote it themselves. They brought it forward. The staff evaluated it. They had to do some work and I understand
that but some things are the cost of doing business here too. There has to be some fray.
Stiles: That’s not exactly true on the planned development ordinance. We had done the majority of the work prior to it ever coming in. we worked very closely
with them. They were more than willing to make that an application because it was a priority for them and we had other priorities at the time. $480.00 is extremely reasonable considering
the fact that you’ve got attorney time. You’ve got staff time. You’ve got publication costs. You’ve copies of all these things going out. There's nothing wrong with that fee and it's
extremely reasonable.
Nary: As I said, it is in your ordinance. It is allowed but you don’t have to charge people to change your own ordinance. You can say no. You can say it's not our priority to work on
it. You can say it's part of the business of the City on controlling their own ordinances. You’re not obligated, under this ordinance; they pay $480.00 you at least have to address it.
You at least have to bring it forward. I guess I just don’t know that that’s necessarily the best way to do that.
Corrie: Would it make any difference how much we charge? We charge 200 now. (inaudible) put us in the same category as 480 that you (inaudible).
Nary: Like I said, maybe Mr. Mayor, I guess part of it to me, I think it's just a philosophical issue of whether or not that’s the right message of access. I guess my position is I don’t
know that a fee is appropriate for that, even though you have an ordinance that allows it.
Corrie: Okay. Anything else?
Nary: No.
Corrie: Council, do you have any questions of Bill?
Corrie: Okay. Thank you.
Anderson: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Anderson.
Anderson: I did have 1 other thought while we were sitting here while Bill was talking. I guess it's similar to what we did when we were talking about increasing our fees in the area
of the trash service. I was wondering if it would be possible at this late date to ask Shari to, some of these columns are pretty wide under the existing and proposed to maybe add a
couple of columns of some of the surrounding cities and maybe do a cost comparison so we can see what they were charging for some of those same fees. Then we could see whether we’re
in line or whether we think we ought to charge a fee in a particular case or something like that.
Stiles: I Had prepared that previously. I don’t know if you were on the Council at that time. But, this has been at least 2 years. Keith says 4.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Anderson: Now that we’re here and ready to pass the ordinance and we’re thinking about it that would be handy information for me to have. You probably did because I was on here 2 years
ago. You probably gave it to me, but I probably filed it in that file 13 over here.
Corrie: Any other discussion?
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: Shari could we get that so that this can be placed on the agenda next week, if we were to continue this until then.
Stiles: I won't be here next week. I’m going on vacation tomorrow. I won't be back until the 10th.
De Weerd: It would just be a comparison. Can your staff get that so that we can make a decision on this? Do you wish us to make a decision when you get back?
Stiles: I guess I would rather that you did when I get back because I don’t think –
*** End of Side Three ***
Stiles: they’ve got a lot of things lined up before next Tuesday. These are comparable with the surrounding area. In fact, in many cases less.
Bird: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Shari, Bill brought up a very good deal on the amendment, the zoning ordinance amendment. Do the other public entities around the surrounding areas have it?
Stiles: I believe so, yes.
Bird: I mean, when you make the comparison, I want to see you do it if we have to wait 2, 3 weeks because you’re the 1 that’s worked on these fees. If they don’t have this, lets put
NA in there so we know what the other entities are charging, our competitors. We still need to realize that customers are our number 1 source. We’ve got to take care of the customers.
They’re the ones that pay all our bills,
our wages. Mr. Mayor, you had opened this as a Public Hearing. I would move that we continue this Public Hearing to December 18, 2001.
McCandless: Second.
Corrie: What time?
Bird: December 18th Mayor. That will give Shari time to get all this together. She’s going on vacation. We don’t want to ruin her vacation.
Corrie: Do I hear a second? Oh, I did.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Bird: I got a second this time Mayor.
McCandless: I don’t say much but when I do, I expect to be heard.
Corrie: You were heard. I just didn’t know where it was coming from. Okay. The motion’s been made to continue the Public Hearing on the Planning and Zoning new fees and fee increases
until 12-18-2001. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Item 11. Discussion of float for Winterland Parade:
Corrie: At the risk of losing my happy home, we have 1 other item on the agenda. That’s our float. I think Tammy; we’re going to have a bugger float.
De Weerd: Hopefully, Greek can pull that.
Corrie: He can pull anything that you want to pull.
Bird: He can pull a semi.
De Weerd: He can pull whatever we want?
Bird: Yes.
Corrie: He can pull it.
Bird: He can pull a semi trailer.
Corrie: He’s got a big trailer himself that’s got sides on it. The kids couldn’t see out.
De Weerd: I went and looked at the trailers that the Parks department have. A 16-foot and a 20-foot. The 16-foot has side railings. In light of spouses and additional Council elect member
and kids, it really appeared that the 20 foot would be more accommodating. It doesn’t have the side railings so we thought maybe we could put bales of hay or straw down the middle and
have the people sit on that rather than in chairs or on the sides. That would make it a lot more safe. The side railings wouldn’t be so important. I wanted to get your thoughts on that.
Does anyone have thoughts?
McCandless: Well, we –
Bird: I’m just doing what you tell us.
McCandless: We need to identify what the float is, so that means putting a sign on it or something. That’s 1 of the rules anyway.
Bird; Yes.
De Weerd: I think that’s on the vehicle unless someone wants to make a banner for it. You have the tire wells, wheel wells that you can put a banner over if something is desired in that
form. I think that the Chamber, though labels the vehicle itself.
McCandless: You mean, you’ll have --?
Bird: It's called the Mayor and the Clowns.
McCandless: No, no. The Mayor and the Elves.
De Weerd: Elves.
Bird: We’ll look like clowns.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Corrie: Okay. Well, lets go –
De Weerd: I am so excited to see this; I just can’t even stand myself.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
De Weerd: We do need to get together on Friday. I asked Ron Anderson to recommend a time that we can all get together to design this. I already have my ornaments from the Parks department.
Bird: My Public Works is working on theirs and so is my treasurer.
McCandless: Now, do we have the tree lighting, is that the 30th?
Corrie: Yes.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
McCandless: That’s 6:00?
Corrie: 6:30. So, we can meet at 3:30 on Friday?
De Weerd: All right.
Anderson: where are we meeting?
De Weerd: At the parks department.
Corrie: The parks department. What kind of --? Is that all right with everybody?
Bird: Sure.
McCandless: Sure.
Bird: 3:30 Friday.
De Weerd: Keith is bringing an artificial tree and –
Bird: I’m bringing an artificial tree.
De Weerd: -- and he’s –
Corrie: It's got to be a bigger 1 than that little tiny thing. I can’t hide behind that.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
De Weerd: We need straw or hay bales.
Bird: I’ll get that.
De Weerd: Keith said he could get that.
Bird: I’ll call Walt and have him bring --. Where are you going to be? This is going to be down at the parks?
De Weerd: Yes.
Bird; I’ll have him bring down --. How many do you want? A dozen, a half dozen?
De Weerd: No. I think probably just half a dozen could fit on there.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
McCandless: You quite grinning down there Bill. I can still get another costume.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
De Weerd: I think everyone that sits up here should participate. Tom also had mentioned that we could have a generator on there if we wanted to put lights around it. With the longer
1, you could --.
Corrie: In my office. Do you need a key?
De Weerd: With the longer trailer, the generator would also fit on there, if you want to do that as well.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
De Weerd: that’s true. I’ll ask him to have that available and we can figure it out. He has lights.
Bird: Ron, can you bring that suit? I think I’ll wear that suit.
De Weerd: What suit?
McCandless: What? The dog?
Bird: I don’t care what it is. The Mayor and I are going to look cute in these things.
De Weerd: Yes you are.
McCandless: you should have heard Tammy and I laughing down at the costume shop.
Corrie: I had 2 questions of the ornaments. What are they suppose to be? I’m kind of short people in my office. I’m the only 1 now.
Anderson: Something that would hang on a tree that would represent your office.
Corrie: That little tree? That’s a little ball.
De Weerd: Like a gavel from your office.
Corrie: I’ve got it. All right.
De Weerd: From the parks department we have a baseball. We have paintbrushes.
Bird: Paintbrushes for what?
De Weerd: For crafts. We have a drinking fountain nozzle, not the whole thing, a sprinkler head, some PVC pipe.
Corrie: Okay.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Corrie: I have 1 other question. Bill, is your wife going to sit up there with us?
Nary: Depending on, I have a daughter in a (inaudible).
Corrie: Okay, good.
Anderson: My wife said it depended on how I looked in this suit.
Corrie: My wife has refused to be on it with me dressed like that.
De Weerd: You don’t have to wear green tights. It is acceptable to have black pants.
Anderson: Most attorneys have those already.
Bird: We’re supposed to wear pants. I was going to get green tights. (inaudible) green sweats.
De Weerd: You can bring green tights and we’ll all have black pants.
Corrie: Any other questions about the --? Tammy, 3:30 Friday?
Nary: What time on Saturday?
Corrie: Saturday at noon we have to start. So, it would be about 11:15, 11:30.
Anderson: Is that when they do the lineups? 11:00?
De Weerd: Yes.
Corrie: So about 11:00.
Bird: Aren’t we going to look ducky? That’s a form-fitting baby. Can you see that thing go around my waist?
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Anderson: No fishnet stockings Keith.
Bird: Elf.
Corrie: Frank are you going to be on there with us?
(inaudible discussion from audience)
Bird: Frank’s going to be on his own.
De Weerd: He’s going to be on the Man of the Year.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council)
Bird: The Sorroptimist honored.
McCandless: Mr. Mayor. I move to adjourn.
De Weerd: Second.
Corrie: All in favor say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:08 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
APPROVED:
/ /
ROBERT D. CORRIE, MAYOR DATE APPROVED
ATTESTED:
WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., CITY CLERK