HomeMy WebLinkAboutJuly 3, 2003 P & Z minutesMeridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 3, 2003
Page 85 of 91
Parking lot lighting will be required within the parking areas. All light shall be installed at
subdivider's expense and be downcast to avoid light on adjoining properties. End of
motion.
Rohm: I'll second that.
Centers: Motion and second to approve Item 15 on our agenda. All in favor? Motion
carried.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, TWO ABSENT
Item 16. Public Hearing: AZ 03-012 Request for annexation and zoning of
24.004 acres from R1 to R-2 zones for Carol Subdivision by The City of
Meridian -west of North Eagle Road and south of East Ustick Road:
Centers: Item Number 16. We would like to open this Public Hearing at this time,
annexation and zoning of 24 acres in the Carol Subdivision and who is going to present
that for the City of Meridian?
Kirkpatrick: That's me. Chairman, Members of the Commission, this is an application
for an annexation and Rezone of, essentially, portions of the Carol Subdivision. You
can see the subject property is located west of the Eagle Road and south of East Ustick
Road. Here is an aerial. It's, actually, kind of difficult to make out on the overhead, but
22 lots of the existing Carol Subdivision -- it's existing, fully built out, homes are
cdnstructed. Twenty-two lots of this existing subdivision will be annexed into the City of
Meridian and be provided with services.
Centers: How many total lots in that sub? I didn't count them.
Kirkpatrick: Me either, so --
Centers: It looks to be at least half.
Zaremba: I have that same question.
Centers: I was just curious.
Kirkpatrick: I think it's about half. All of these lots are continuously contiguous to the
city of Meridian. We have had the property surveyed and we have a legal description
and all lots are technically contiguous and do qualify for annexation and Rezone. The
city is acting on behalf of these property owners and, actually, in 2002 originally sent out
a notice to property owners letting them know there is an option to annexation into the
City of Meridian and obtain services and several neighborhood meetings were held.
The applicants were not -- or people in this neighborhood were not required to annex
into the City of Meridian, since it's purely optional. Let's see. This annexation has been
made possible by the expansion of the South Slough sewer and water project and has
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July 3, 2003
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made it possible to serve these residents with urban services. I think that is about it.
Are there any questions?
Centers: So, you have something in writing from these people that they want you to act
on their behalf to annex them?
Kirkpatrick: We do. We do. We have signed -- let's see what they are actually called.
Centers: Kind of like what an applicant gets from --
Kirkpatrick: Right. We have signed affidavits from each of the 22 property owners.
Centers: Good. Okay. Any questions?
Zaremba: Yes. I have got to wonder why on earth we asked this individually. The
question should have been does the subdivision want to join. To chop it up like this --
Kirkpatrick: Well, I believe the City of Meridian --
Zaremba: Enclaves are the ones who are not joining.
Kirkpatrick: Right. We don't do forced annexations in the City of Meridian, so it's
completely up -- up to the property owners whether they wanted to annex and -- to
voluntarily annex and receive urban services. That's why it's kind of a piecemeal
annexation Rezone.
Zaremba: Well -- and my statement is that among themselves in their homeowners
association meetings for the subdivision, they should have made that as a complete
decision for all of them, either join or not join.
Centers: You can't do that. You can't do that. A homeowners association doesn't have
that power over an individual homeowner. You will be annexed. And I agree with the
City of Meridian, they don't force it. If you want in, fine. If you don't, keep your septic
and your well.
Kirkpatrick: Until it fails.
Centers: But I know where you're coming from. I didn't like all the --
Zaremba: Look at these little enclaves.
Centers: Yes. You can't do anything about it.
Zaremba: Well, we are not allowed to do that.
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July 3, 2003
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Centers: Anyway, does this gentleman want to testify? I assumed that's why you
stayed.
Thurston: My name is David Thurston. I live at 1470 North Leslie Way here in
Meridian. My home is one of the homes that is not on the list to be annexed and the
reason I am here tonight is just I have some questions and some concerns. Just to
update you, we did have a community meeting to talk about this initially when they were
bringing in the sewer. We requested they bring in the water also, which they did. Some
of the people were interested in connecting to the sewer, therefore, the question of
annexation was raised. In order to get the water and sewer services you have to be in
the city. If you don't, you can't get those services. Some of the people were interested
doing that because of the age of their septic tanks. I would say there is -- it's probably
close to a 50/50 split of the people who wanted to be annexed and those that don't want
to be. I'm neutral. They asked us if we wanted to be annexed as a subdivision or
annexed in pieces and I said let's do it either all or none. Let's not go in pieces. I'm not
sure how that vote came out.
Centers: Well, obviously, it didn't pass.
Thurston: Obviously, they just decided to go in pieces
Centers: Right.
Thurston: One of the concerns I have and the reason I was here tonight is my property
-- if I can get this to work. Is this one right here. L22. In a letter that was addressed
February the 12th from Brad Watson, who is the city engineer for Meridian, he was
addressing some -- the questions about annexation at that time. I quote from his
memo, while staff would recommend conformance to applicable city ordinances on the
application, there is certain zoning ordinance requirement that likely would not serve the
public interest. Among those requirements are additional landscaping, tiling of
waterways, livestock, et cetera. For example, staff would not recommend piping of
open irrigation laterals that are fenced off from surrounding properties. My property I
have -- there is a lateral that comes in right here, goes over here and, then, goes across
the street. There is also the slough which comes down here and goes over there and
I'm just curious if -- maybe this isn't a question for this Commission and staff -- what
happens to those open waterways? Do we have to the them? Do you have to pipe
them? That's just an open question. That's my concern, because Ihave -- 50 percent of
my property has boundary of this irrigation ditch and if we have to pipe them, who is
responsible for the cost and expense to do the piping.
Centers: Good question
Thurston: Now, the slough is quite large, as you probably are aware. It's quite large.
The irritation ditch by my place is just -- it's just small and, of course, there would have
to be -- if there are concerns about those open ditches, which there probably should be,
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I think those questions have to be answered. I'm surprised there aren't more people
here. I'm really surprised but maybe it's the Fourth of July, too.
Centers: Yes and this meeting tonight was scheduled 20 years ago
Thurston: On, yes. We have known about this for sometime.
Centers: Well, I mean it just happens the first Thursday.
Thurston: Yes. Exactly. There is no control over that.
Centers: We didn't pick it.
Thurston: Right. I'm sure.
Centers: As the one letter inferred.
Thurston: Yes.
Centers: Staff, do you want to respond to the gentleman's --
Kirkpatrick: I can respond to a portion of that, then, I will hand it over to Bruce. It's,
actually, the subdivision ordinance which would require the tiling, it would not be the
annexation or the Rezone that would require a tiling and I'll let Bruce handle the rest.
Freckleton: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, Mr. Thurston, we kicked that
idea around a little bit when we were drafting the report. Wendy is correct, it's in the
subdivision development ordinance where you find that section on piping of ditches and
I was pretty concerned about trying to impose something like that on individual property
owners and the cost associated with it and that sort of thing and so we didn't touch it
and, you know, I guess I stick by Brad's earlier comment about -- you know, what he
stated about tiling those ditches. Mr. Thurston is correct, South Slough is a large ditch.
I think it would probably qualify for the waiver through City Council. Typically, they have
been going with a 48 inch diameter threshold whenever a ditch requires a pipe greater
than 48 inches, they get a waiver.
Centers: Well, is a wavier required here?
Freckleton: No.
Centers: What are we saying?
Freckleton: No. This is an annexation and zoning. We are not doing a subdivision
here.
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Centers: Yes. Exactly. Exactly. Page 5, Number 2, is that really needed in there? All
future development of the subject property shall be constructed in accordance with City
of Meridian Ordinances in effect at the time of development. I mean is that really
necessary or is that common language for a --
Freckleton: Mr. Chairman, Ithink -- I don't think the comment is necessary. Ithink it
kind of goes without saying you annex into the city basically you're going to live by the
ordinances of the city. It's kind of a little bit of redundancy.
Centers: Number 1 and 3 have to be there. I pick on Number 2, because it kind of ties
in with this gentleman's appearance here tonight. He doesn't want to have to do
anything --any more improvements.
Freckleton: Sure.
Centers: It's a developed subdivision and they are done.
Thurston: Correct.
Centers: Ithink that's for the record and your time wasn't wasted.
Freckleton: No. And we appreciate you being here.
Thurston: Is there a chance I could get a copy of the report?
Centers: I don't have a problem with that. In fact, you can have a copy of mine. Here
you go.
Zaremba: Since you're here, can I ask you to -- this is another crystal ball question?
Among your neighbors who are choosing not to annex at this time, are they violently
opposed to it or they just want to wait until their septic system gives up?
Thurston: Ithink the ones that are -- well, I'm neutral. I mean if you annex the whole
subdivision, I don't have a problem with that. Ithink most of us are saying if we don't
have to incur additional expenses to connect right now, there is no sense in incurring
those expenses. As long as the septic tank is working, why incur additional expenses.
Let's wait until it fails and, then, incur it.
Zaremba: But I'm wondering whether if somebody had a failed septic system would put
in a new septic or ask to be annexed and connect.
Freckleton: Mr. Chairman, I can address that.
Zaremba: Okay.
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Freckleton: Basically, if -- if a county parcel -- if their septic system gave up on them,
they approach Central District Health Department for a permit to replace that system,
Central District Health Department is going to turn around, contact the City of Meridian,
and say do you have facilities to serve this parcel within 300 feet of the boundaries,
which, in turn, I would have to write back and say, yes, we do, and they would deny the
permit and the applicant -- you know, the property owner would be forced to come in
and talk to the city at that point.
Centers: Same way with water?
Freckleton: Same way with water.
Zaremba: So, eventually, it will happen to everybody. Well, then, I'm much happier
about the process than I was before. Thank you.
Centers: Thank you.
Wollen: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, since this is kind of a novel
annexation, I just wanted to reiterate the authority that the Idaho legislature gives to
cities. Basically, other than the restriction of contiguous land to land that's already in the
city, the legislature is very broad on the powers that are given to individual cities. One
of the reasons that the code puts in for annexation is to assure the orderly development
of Idaho cities in order to allow efficient and economically viable provisions of tax
supported municipal services, et cetera. With the -- Mr. Freckleton's testimony
concerning the sewer and water issue, that -- it helps my -- it helps me relax a little bit
about that orderly development portion.
Centers: Thank you. Very good. I would entertain a motion.
Zaremba: Mr. Chairman, I move that the Public Hearing on Item 16 be closed.
Rohm: I'll second that.
Centers: Motion and second to close the Public Hearing. All in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, TWO ABSENT
Zaremba: Mr. Chairman, I move we forward to the City Council recommending
approval of Item 16 on our agenda, AZ 03-012, request for annexation and zoning of
24.004 acres from R-1 to R-2 zones for Carol Subdivision by the City of Meridian, west
of North Eagle Road and south of East Ustick Road, to include all staff comments of the
memo of the transmittal date June 26, 2003, with no modifications, but with the
additional emphasis that there are other members of the subdivision who are not being
annexed by this act.
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Centers: Question for staff. Did we want to strike two or does it really -- you know,
what do you think?
Kirkpatrick: I think go ahead and leave it in there. It's not conflicting with anything else.
Centers: Okay.
Rohm: I'll second that motion.
Centers: Motion and second to approve Item 16 on our agenda. All in favor? Motion
carried.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
Zaremba: Mr. Chairman?
Centers: Go right ahead.
Zaremba: I move we adjourn.
Rohm: Second.
Centers: All in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 11:47 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
APPROVED:
KEITH BORUP, CHAIRMAN
DATE
ATTESTED:
WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., CITY CLERK