HomeMy WebLinkAbout2001 05-01Meridian City Council Meeting May 1, 2001
The regularly scheduled meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:40 PM on Tuesday, May I, 2001, by Mayor Robert D. Corrie.
Members Present: Mayor Robert Corrie, Cherie McCandless, Tammy De Weerd, Keith Bird.
Members Absent: Ron Anderson.
Others present: Gary Smith, Bill Nichols, Shari Stiles, Ken Bowers, Bill Gordon, Will Berg.
Corrie: I’ll open the City Council regular meeting for May 1, 2001 at 6:40 and roll call please Mr. Clerk.
Item 1. Roll-call Attendance:
X Tammy de Weerd O Ron Anderson
X Cherie McCandless X Keith Bird
X Mayor Robert Corrie
Item 2. Adoption of the Agenda:
Corrie: Council, adoption of the agenda is the No.2 item. Any questions on the agenda?
Bird: Mr. Mayor
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: On the consent agenda, I would with your permission like to move F the beer and wine license to 4F so that some questions can be asked. Also on item H the Findings of Facts and
Conclusions of Law for Touchmark Living Centers I’d like to move to 4H so that some questions can be answered on that if you agree.
Corrie: Staff, comments on the agenda?
Stiles: Could you move item C to the regular agenda?
Corrie: Item C to the regular agenda?
(inaudible discussion amongst Council Members)
Corrie: Okay. So that would be 4C.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council members)
Bird: Mr. Mayor
Corrie: Mr. Bird
Bird: We also had a request for item No.5 on the regular agenda, request a deferral to the next available council meeting. Do you want to take care of that now or when the item comes
up?
Corrie: When the item comes up.
Bird: Okay.
Corrie: Any other changes? Okay. Then I’ll entertain a motion for the adoption of the amended agenda of item C, F, and H will move to move to items 4F, 4H and 4C.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor
Corrie: Mrs. De Weerd:
De Weerd: I move we adopt the agenda as amended to reflect that C, F and H from the consent agenda to be put to the regular agenda as 4C, 4F, and 4H.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion’s made and second to approve the adopted and adopt the amended agenda. Any further discussion? Hearing none, roll call vote Mr. Berg.
Roll-Call: Bird, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Anderson, absent.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT
Item 3. Consent Agenda:
A. Tabled from April 17, 2001: Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law for Approval: AZ 01-002 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 11.764 acres from RT to R-40 and C-G for proposed
Locust Grove Place by B & A Engineers – west side of Locust Grove Road, south of Fairview Avenue:
B. Tabled from April 17, 2001: Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law for Approval: PP 01-002 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 7 building lots and 2 other lots on 11.764
acres in a proposed R-40 and C-G zone for proposed Locust Grove Place
by B & A Engineers – west side of Locust Grove Road, south of Fairview Avenue
C. Tabled from April 17, 2001: Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP 01-003 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a 180-unit apartment complex and a planned
development in a proposed R-40 and C-G zone for proposed Locust Grove Place by B & A Engineers – west side of Locust Grove Road, south of Fairview Avenue:
D. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law: PP 01-004 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 11 building lots and 2 other lots on 20.26 acres in an R-8 zone by J-U-B Engineers for
proposed Murdoch Subdivision No. 2 – west of Locust Grove Road, south of Franklin Road
E. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law: VAR 01-004 Request for Variance of the 1,000-foot block length for Murdoch Subdivision No. 2 by Howell-Murdoch Development Corporation
– west of Locust Grove Road, south of Franklin Road
F. Beer and Wine License: A New Vintage Wine Shop, Inc., by Ilene M. Dudunake – 1400 North Eagle Road, Suite 104:
G. First Addendum to Development Agreement: AZ 00-010 for Observation Pointe Subdivision:
H. Tabled from February 20, 2001: Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law: CUP 99-039 Request for Conditional Use Permit for planned unit development including continuing care retirement
community, single- and multi-family residential and office and retail use by Touchmark Living Centers – Joseph A. Billig – east of St. Luke's between Franklin Road and Interstate 84
(need to approve Development Agreement and annexation ordinance before approving CUP Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law):
Corrie: Okay. The consent agenda. I’ll entertain a motion on the new amended consent agenda.
Bird: Mr. Mayor
Corrie: Mr. Bird
Bird: I move we approve the consent agenda with the exception of C, F, and H, which has been moved to the regular agenda.
De Weerd: Second.
Corrie: Motion’s been made and second. Any further discussion? Roll call vote Mr. Berg.
Roll-Call: Bird, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Anderson, absent.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT
Item 4. (Items moved from Consent Agenda):
C. Tabled from April 17, 2001: Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP 01-003 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a 180-unit apartment complex and a planned
development in a proposed R-40 and C-G zone for proposed Locust Grove Place by B & A Engineers – west side of Locust Grove Road, south of Fairview Avenue:
Corrie: Okay. Item No. 4. We’ll take up 4C first which is the table from the April17, 2001 Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law for approval request for conditional use permit
for the 180 apartment complex and planned development in the proposed R4 and C-G zone for proposed Locust Grove Place by B & A Engineers west side of Locust Grove Road and south of Fairview
Avenue.
Corrie: Staff discussion.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Members of Council the applicant’s representative had submitted position statements on this item. I believe we resolved most of the issues except for 2. We just
needed a little clarification on those. On page 17 of the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law item 1.17 just for clarification wanted to add between the and parking at boat and
RV. The applicant would love to have all of the parking requirements waived but it was just the boat and RV parking and storage requirements. Then on page 19, under item 1.27 the Meridian
fire Department had requested a second access for ingress and egress. The applicant has met with Kenny Bowers Fire Chief and Kenny has agreed to allow a 40-foot driveway access to Locust
Grove Road in lue of a second access.
Bird: (inaudible) to 40-foot road. Is that off of Locust Grove Shari?
Stiles: On north Locust Grove Road.
Bird: Off of – on to –
Stiles: The main entrance to the whole development. Kenny said if they’d make that 40 feet wide then he would accept that in lue of the second access.
Bird: So that first sentence can actually basically be eliminated then?
Stiles: Either eliminate it and add provide a 40-foot driveway access to Locust Grove Road. That’s all I had.
Corrie: Okay. Council, any other questions?
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor
Corrie: Mrs. De Weerd:
De Weerd: Shari do you have a page 18 on that?
Bird: Page what?
De Weerd: 18
Stiles: Yes I do.
De Weerd: It looks okay.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council members)
De Weerd: I don’t have a page 18.
Bird: You ripped it out.
Corrie: Okay. Any other questions? Okay. Hearing none, I’ll entertain a motion on the CUP 01-003 item C on the consent agenda.
Bird: Mr. Mayor
Corrie: Mr. Bird
Bird: I move that we approve the conditional use permit for 180 unit apartment complex and a planned development for proposed R40 C- G zones proposed Locust Grove Place west side Locust
Grove and south of Fairview avenue with the change in wording on the Findings on page 17 1.17. Between the and parking insert boat and RV. On page 19, on 1.27 delete the sentence the
subdivision shall need a second access for ingress and egress and install provide 40 foot access to Locust Grove Road and for the Attorney to draw up Findings of Facts and Conclusions
of Law Decision of Order.
De Weerd: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion’s been made and second to approve the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law as amended on the two items and have the Attorney draw up a new Findings of Facts
and Conclusions of Law to reflect the change in the Findings of Facts, the old one. Any further discussion? Pardon, Shari?
Stiles: You’re still on C? Can’t we adopt these findings as they are and then you’ll do the ordinance and development agreement?
Bird: You’re right. I said the wrong one.
Corrie: I’m just getting what you wanted to do. So it’s amending those findings and facts and approve with the amendments?
Bird: Yes sir.
Corrie: Okay. Any other discussion. Hearing the motion, roll call vote Mr. Berg.
Roll-Call: Bird, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Anderson, absent.
Corrie: The Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law has been approved with the changes made by the motion.
F. Beer and Wine License: A New Vintage Wine Shop, Inc., by Ilene M. Dudunake – 1400 North Eagle Road, Suite 104:
Corrie: Item No. 4F which is a beer and wine license A New Vintage Wine Shop Inc by Ilene M. – is she here tonight? If she’s not, if I’ll say it I’ll mess it all up. I don’t want to
have her shoot me tomorrow. Anyway item No. F for a beer and wine license. Chief we pulled that off for request from your department.
Gordon: Yes sir. Mr. Mayor, Council. I have not seen this application. The applicant filed with us on the 24th of April. I have not had a chance to review or do a background investigation.
I think what it is is a break down in communications on our side not on the applicant. I would like the council – the applicant already has her state license and her county license.
I would like the Council to once again allow me to do the background check and then approve it tomorrow if everything’s okay and get it back to the City Clerk.
Corrie: Okay.
Gordon: I’d hate to see the applicant have to pay for what I think is our problem.
Corrie: Good point. Council?
Bird: I agree with him because the state does a very thorough background check.
Gordon: I’ve never had one fail my test after going through the state and the county but I’d hate to skip one and have –
Bird: I agree with you. That’s right.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor
Corrie: Mrs. De Weerd:
De Weerd: I move that we approve the beer and wine license for A New Vintage Wine Shop upon successful sign off of the Chief of Police and for the Mayor to sign and the clerk to
attest.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion’s been made and second to approve the beer and wine license after the Chief has had a chance to investigate it and with his approval we would have the Mayor and
the city attorney attest and sign off on the beer and wine license for the City of Meridian. Any further discussion? Hearing none, Roll call vote please, Mr. Berg.
Roll-Call: Bird, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Anderson, absent.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT
H. Tabled from February 20, 2001: Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law: CUP 99-039 Request for Conditional Use Permit for planned unit development including continuing care retirement
community, single- and multi-family residential and office and retail use by Touchmark Living Centers – Joseph A. Billig – east of St. Luke's between Franklin Road and Interstate 84
(need to approve Development Agreement and annexation ordinance before approving CUP Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law):
Corrie: Item No. 4H is tabled from the February 20, 2001. This is the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law CUP 99-039 and it’s a request for a conditional use permit for a planned
unit development including continued care retirement community single and multi family residential and office use by Touchmark Living Centers. Since it was pulled off the consent agenda,
we will hear it at this point. I believe Gary and the attorney has some things on this one. Gary would you like to tell us what yours are?
Smith: Thank you Mr. Mayor, Council members. We received a revised phasing plan on I think it was last Friday morning for the construction of this project into five phases. Since that
time, I wasn’t able to break away yesterday to meet with the applicant. We had finally this afternoon late we had an extended phone
conversation between engineer Dean Briggs and Touchmark’s representative Don I can’t remember Don’s last name, sorry. I’m not sure I could pronounce it anyway. I guess we have some items
of agreement as far as what’s going to be completed or excuse me, what’s going to be completed prior to issue of building permits and what’s going to be completed prior to occupancy
permit issuance. Dean Briggs has prepared some colored drawings that shows on phase 1 what’s going to be required for building permit and what’s going to be required for occupancy permit
and also what would be required as completion of phase 1. We have always had and I don’t know whether it would be appropriate at this point for Dean to, do you have copies of that Dean
for everyone? Dean has some copies of that phasing plan or at least phase 1 if it be appropriate to distribute that to you at this point.
Nichols: Mr. Mayor. Mr. Smith, it’s my understanding you’ve got some definition issues. Have you got those resolved in the last 5 10 minutes or do those still need to be resolved before
they come to the Council actually approve this phasing plan?
Smith: I think that Don has agreed with my suggestion that the item that’s listed in the phasing plan and defined as letter P which states it’s needing bonding to Meridian or other
agencies to permit occupancy needs to be replaced with the designation of R which is defined as required to be bonded prior to receipt of building permits and completed prior to occupancy.
Nichols: That would be all of the items that are noted with a P in the phasing plan then Gary?
Smith: As best as we could tell in the short meeting we had in the foyer.
Nichols: Mr. Mayor
Corrie: Mr. Nichols
Nichols: Touchmark’s representatives have been trying to get this phasing plan honed down to a point that’s acceptable to our staff and we can hear from their representatives. If the
phasing plan with that amendment is acceptable to them then you can approve the phasing plan. We’ll get it back to you in two weeks in a written form with all the Ps changed to Rs. Then
in two weeks we can have the annexation ordinance. Mr. Bradbury representing the applicant has in hand the signed development agreement addendum with regard to the 20 acres that St Luke’s
purchased from Touchmark so that he can deliver that to the clerk. That was a piece of the puzzle that was missing when we met two weeks ago. That’s now been completed. We’re really
close. All we were after was this little phasing plan fine tuning here so if that’s going to be acceptable to Gary and Shari with that change and it’s acceptable to the applicant then
I would recommend that you approve it. Then we’d actually have one on the consent agenda next regular
meeting in two weeks. On the 15th we have the annexation ordinance on that same agenda and then we can proceed.
Smith: Mr. Mayor, Council. One other thing I might add, I discussed with the applicant and his engineer this afternoon on the phone that this project in terms of issuance of building
permits and issuance of occupancy permits is being treated exactly the same as we treat other projects whether it’s a commercial project, or a recorded subdivision plat, residential
plat. Wherein we request very minimum light safety issue things for the issuance of a building permit. The installation of the water for active fire hydrants for fire protection. The
installation of the sewer lines which goes along with the installation of the water. The installation of a roadway bed, a gravel bed that’ll support a fire truck during all weather.
Those 3 things are typical for our requirements for issuance of building permits for any project. At the other end of that when the project is being completed and the applicant is asking
for occupancy permits. Then we require that the entire project be complete, subject to instances where weather would not permit landscaping to be completed for example. Then a bond could
be accepted from the applicant for that and a temporary occupancy could be issued for whatever period of time it takes to get weather in compliance with landscaping as an example. Typically
that’s all that’s required or asked to be bonded in order to get an occupancy permit.
Corrie: Mr. Bradbury, I guess one of the questions is –
Bradbury: Thank you Mr. Mayor. Yeah. Steve Bradbury representing the applicant. Touchmark is perfectly happy with the proposed revisions. What I’ve got, I’ve got these signed St. Luke’s
addendums I’ll give to the clerk. I’ve also got a signed development agreement with Touchmark’s signature but it’s a facsimile signature. I also have the addendum that was delivered
earlier today but the one that we need to revise with the facsimile signature on it. Rather than deliver those, I think I’ll just hold on to them, get the original signatures to you
next week with the revised addendum. Then if the Council will as Mr. Nichols has proposed include on the agenda for 2 weeks from now the findings, the development agreements and the
annexation ordinance then we can finally get this thing out of your hair and ours maybe, after how many months has it been?
(inaudible discussion amongst Council members)
Bird: How many years?
Bradbury: Believe me, we’re just as anxious as you guys are to get this one off there. With that in mind I think we can be ready to go.
Corrie: Okay. Thank you. Any questions from the council?
Bird: I have none Mayor.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council members)
Bird: Mr. Mayor
Corrie: Go ahead Mr. Bird.
Bird: Gary did you say that Dean had some phasing for us in color?
Smith: Yes. They’re colored drawings, 11 by 17 and they’re very explanatory as far as what’s going to be completed under phase1. It may be a benefit for you to have those to look at.
Corrie: Yeah because we can approve that phasing today if it’s all in agreement with you and then we’ll get the other the 15th.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council members)
Corrie: Any questions from Council on this one? I’ll entertain a motion.
Bird: Mr. Mayor
Corrie: Mr. Bird
Bird: I move that we table the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law until May 15, 2001 and approve the phasing program as worked out by Mr. Gary Smith and approve that and bring
everything back and put it on the consent agenda for May 15, 2001.
McCandless: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion’s made and second to table the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law until the 15th of this month and approve the phasing proposal and include it in the consent
agenda on the 15th. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT
Corrie: Thank you.
Item 5. Continued Public Hearing from April 3, 2001: PP 01-003 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 23 building lots and 3 other lots on 9.24 acres in an R-4 zone by Hubble Engineering
for proposed Ashford Greens No. 6 – Black Cat Road, north of Cherry Lane:
Corrie: No. 5 has been requested by the developer to table the request for preliminary plat for Ashford Green No.6. At this point I will entertain a motion to table that until May the
15th of this month.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor
Bird: Mr. Mayor, Shari.
Corrie: I’m sorry, Shari.
Stiles: I believe this one has never come before a Public Hearing so I think it was to be continued. I don’t believe anybody on the Council has actually heard their presentation yet
unless I’m mistaken on that. So, it would be a continued Public Hearing.
Bird: No.
Corrie: Let me change books here –
Bird: I don’t think it was.
Corrie: Mr. Clerk?
Berg: Mr. Mayor members of Council. It should be a continued Public Hearing.
Bird: That’s what I thought. Okay.
Stiles: Thanks.
Berg: I’m sorry. Sometimes the wording in the motions may falter but it is a continued Public Hearing.
Bird: Are you saying we’re wrong once in a while? Just 90 percent of the time.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor
Corrie: Mrs. De Weerd:
De Weerd: I move that we continue request for Preliminary Plat for Ashford Greens No. 6 to May 15th.
Bird: Which year?
De Weerd: That’s 2001.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: It’s been made and second to table the continued item No. 5 until the 15th of this month a t the Council meeting. Any further discussions? All those in favor of the motion say
aye.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT
Item 6. Public Hearing: CUP 01-008 Request for Conditional Use Permit of 3 residential lots to be developed as subdivision, pool, clubhouse and recreation area in an R-4 zone for Packard
Subdivision by Packard Estates Development, LLC – north of East Fairview Avenue, west of North Eagle Road on North Hickory Way:
Corrie: Item No. 6 is a Public Hearing request for a conditional use permit of 3 residential lots to be developed as subdivision pool, clubhouse and recreation area in an R4 zone for
Packard subdivision by Packard Estates Development LLC. At this point I will open up the Public Hearing on the conditional use permit request 01-008 and invite staff’s comments first
please.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council. This is a request for a subdivision pool clubhouse and recreation area on 3 buildable lots in Packard Estates Subdivision to be used as a recreation
facility. There were 2 items that were brought up in the staff comments. They would specifically like you to review. One of those is the parking that is shown. They have shown 10, it
says 8 parking spaces. In this area is where they would have their parking. There is nothing in our ordinance that requires any set amount of parking for a facility such as this. We
were a little concerned that the on street parking might be filled up if they had a party of any size at this location. There’s also the issue of the trash. Where they would be keeping
the trash, where they would have it collected, as there’s no trash enclosures shown and the applicant may address that. Of course they will need to abide by the noise ordinance if there’s
problems with noise I’m sure that Chief Gordon or some of his staff will receive a call because they don’t have any hours of operation for the facility. Also I’m not sure where the existing
lot lines are in this development. However if they were proposing any buildings over existing lot lines they would need to vacate those easements within the subdivision. Staff would
recommend approval of the application with all staff and agency conditions.
Corrie: Does Council have any questions at this time of staff?
Bird: Mr. Mayor
Corrie: Mr. Bird
Bird: Shari on your site-specific requirements under parking. There’s an error here. Site plan displays 8 parking spaces then its (inaudible) 10 standard stalls and one handicap accessible.
Is that 7 and 1?
Stiles: I don’t know if some of the trees are obscuring some of their parking spaces. I think it is –
Bird: Ten and one adds up to 11. The site’s only showing 8.
Stiles: I believe it’s only 8 total and one of those is a handicap stall.
Bird: So it would be 7 standard?
Stiles: Yes.
Bird: Okay. Thanks Shari.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor
Corrie: Mrs. De Weerd:
De Weerd: Shari I think on item No. 12 with the trash, did that get clarified at Planning and Zoning Commission meetings?
Stiles: I don’t know. I don’t have the minutes from the meeting and I don’t have any recommendation from Planning and Zoning on this.
De Weerd: Okay. Well, I can ask the applicant. Hours of operation, it’s stated in the findings that that’s determined by the Homeowners Association so that was a staff recommendation
as well. On item No. 14 I don’t know whether to ask Shari or our attorney but it mentions a fuel kiosk on there. I didn’t think that was compatible with a rec center.
Stiles: On the recommendations? It talked about a fuel kiosk? Not staff recommendations –
(inaudible discussion amongst Council members)
Stiles: The recommendation from the Planning and Zoning Commission is that where it says fuel kiosk?
Bird: Something about the water.
De Weerd: Well, he got it out of the staff recommendations. Staff recommendations page 3 item No.9. It was just carried over to the recommendation by Planning and Zoning. I don’t know
if it’s an issue of wording
or if you do still that certificate of occupancy in there. Does that need to be in there? I know the fuel kiosk doesn’t need to be but does the certificate of occupancy?
(inaudible discussion amongst Council members)
De Weerd: It needs to be in there. They just need to take the fuel kiosk out. That wouldn’t be compatible.
Stiles: What item is it?
De Weerd: In the recommendations from P&Z it’s item 14 on page 4.
Stiles: Yeah. I would definitely say you need to remove the fuel kiosk part of it. I apologize if that’s in our staff report.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council members)
Corrie: Any other?
(inaudible discussion amongst Council members)
Corrie: Okay. The developer here this evening? I hope he is.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council members)
Corrie: The developer’s not here tonight so whatever we decide he’s going to have to do? Okay. Since the developer isn’t here, we have a sign up sheet. Being a Public Hearing for
the CUP No. 008 Packard Subdivision. I have 2, Helen Sharpe and Dale Sharpe. So, Helen Sharpe?
H. Sharpe: Do I need to be sworn in?
Corrie: Well, we’re going to do that maybe next time but you’re all right now.
Sharpe: Oh, okay. Mayor, Council Members. We are quite concerned about my husband and I because we are residents of Windgate lane. We want to know if this clubhouse or this development
that they’re proposing is going to be just for the Packard Subdivision on the east side or if they propose to let the people on the west side once it’s developed, participate in that
too? If so, how do they propose they get form the west side of Windgate lane over to the east side of Windgate. Here we go with that part being public again. For those of you that have
listened to this for many years know that things are never done in it’s entirety. We do it piecemeal. I’m wondering why this was not included when they put in their original plans. Like
everything else since we’re still having problems on Windgate Lane with the subdivision I’d like to know if they’re going to have
everything done when they start this project if it’s passed so that we don’t have to have all of these gatherings and meetings and driving everybody pretty wild shall we say for lack
of a better description. I think that they need to determine right away what they’re going to do because they do have the pedestrian gates on that fence that goes down Windgate Lane
north south. We’ve been told they weren’t to be there but here again we’re battling with ACH. Those gates we were told are to be locked by the developers and of course they are not.
These are these private things we need to talk about because we’re still talking about crossing a private lane which is Windgate Lane and of course the term being whether or not it’s
an easement or whether or not it’s a private lane, it’s still private property. I’m hoping that if they do pass this that everything is done so that they don’t have to keep bringing
up other problems. I don’t know have they decided or has there been any talk as to whether or not they’re going to let both parts of that subdivision use the facilities? Of course the
developer isn’t here so how do we know?
Corrie: The developer isn’t here so we’re not going to be able to get that answer from him I guess tonight.
Bird: The application don’t mention anything about it.
Corrie: The application doesn’t.
Sharpe: I think that’s something I might want to think about when they do some thinking about granting that project. I don’t know if they could be able to continue this as a Public Hearing
since the developer isn’t here. I definitely think it’s a question that needs to be answered for those of us of course that are on Windgate Lane.
Corrie: I have no objection to that.
H. Sharpe: Okay. Thank you.
Corrie: Okay. Thank you.
Sharpe: I’m Dale Sharpe. I did have a question on the lighting and the hours of operation that I thought should be addressed so the new residents wouldn’t be unduly impacted by the bright
lights and loud noise late at night and so forth. Also I’d like to remind everyone here especially the City Council and so forth, the representative speaking on behalf of Packard Development
have testified numerous times that Windgate Lane would not be used by the Packard development. That’s in the minutes duly noted.
Corrie: Thank you. Shari, did the developer or representative for Packard say anything about not being here tonight?
Stiles: No.
Corrie: At the Public Hearing or some of their representative is here to answer the questions the public might have. Under the circumstances, my personal feeling is that we should continue
the Public Hearing on this because we need some answers. Council, comments?
Bird: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I also agree with you. I’ve got some concerns on the safety of the thing in the off hours and stuff. How will it be secure and what’s to keep the pool from being used in the middle
of the night and all that kind of stuff. I would, without the developer being here, like to continue the Public Hearing until May 15th because I’ve got some questions I’d like to ask
him.
Corrie: Okay. Any other comments from Council? Then I’ll entertain a motion to that effect Mr. Bird.
McCandless: Mr. Mayor
Corrie: Mrs. McCandless
McCandless: I move that we continue the Public Hearing for the Packard Subdivision until May 15th.
De Weerd: Second.
Corrie: The motion’s been made and seconded to continue the Public Hearing on this request for a conditional use permit until April the 15th of this year to answer some questions
and have the developer here. Any further discussion?
De Weerd: No.
Corrie: Was there anybody else here that wanted to ask any questions on this Public Hearing. You’ll have a chance the 15th to do it as well but I kind of don’t want to tell you I was
cutting you off short here. You get that other public testimony. Okay. All right, no other discussion all those in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT
Corrie: This will be continued to Public Hearing until the 15th of this month.
Item 7. Public Hearing: RZ 01-003 Request for rezone from R-4 to C-C for Partition Specialties, Inc by Ronald and Coleen Schaub – 1315 North Meridian Road:
Corrie: Item No. 7 is a Public Hearing request for a rezone from R- 4to a C-C for Partition Specialties Inc. by Ronald and Colleen Schaub. I didn’t mess that one up either, 1335 north
Meridian Road. At this time I’ll open the Public Hearing and have staff comments first on the requested rezone.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Members of Council. This request was for rezone to C-C. The recommendation of the Planning and Zoning Commission was that the C- C not be allowed but that the
property be rezoned to L-O. The applicant had stated that the purpose of the rezone was to allow them to operate an office for an architectural products business. Says the existing site,
showing that lot from the alley. They will be required to pave the alley and to pave parking spaces behind the existing residence in order to accommodate their off street parking requirements.
A site plan was not provided with the application that I have on this Power Point. I don’t believe that they did provide one. We would recommend the approval to rezone to L-O with all
staff and agency requirements.
Corrie: Okay. Council, any questions of staff?
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Does the request for the rezone here this evening? Okay, is there any one here from the public like to issue testimony on this request? Yes, whichever ones come up first. The
others will have a chance as well. It sounds like you’re going to have the opportunity to do it again the 15th.
Peters: Mr. Mayor, City Council. I’m Gene Peters. I live right next door on the north side. My main concern is to have you folks aware that the city sewer runs directly under that alley
right there and we feel that the alley should be entirely paved from Cherry to Maple because they’re already in there using that with trailers, with trucks, the whole nine yards. I understand
Shari to say earlier I think, correct me if I’m wrong that this was going to be just an office. There is things being built in there as well as there’s more than just a few office people.
There’s trucks coming and going all the time. Now the Ada County Highway owns that alley and part of it is wider than other parts. It’s kind of hard to tell on this picture but some
of the fence comes in. The alley has been a concern of mine ever since, well I’ve been there 11 years, my wife and I. I try to keep it up the best I can. I have graveled it in some spots
where I was concerned with where I would get in and out. I think that because of the use, it doesn’t sound perhaps like the place is going to be used all that much to you but it does
to me. I think it’s going to be used pretty extensively in travel. They come in from the north as well as from the south. In the very near future there’s this property right here that’s
off the picture right here on my left. They are going to be meeting with you folks in 2
days on the 3rd for a proposal for that place. He’s already told me his last week he’s willing to do part of that alley at the same time because they want parking back there also. So,
however you can work that out with Mr. Schaub and I think he already showed me some things being I’m his neighbor that you folks requested and some of it was widening the front driveway
and all that. I don’t really think I have very many other concerns but the alley is definitely a concern of mine. I’d like to see the whole thing paved and I don’t how that’ll work with
the fences being, part of that alley’s 12 feet, part of it’s 15 looks like to me you’re going to need drainage and there’s going to have to be some storm drains. I don’t how that works
with the sewer line running under there. I appreciate it.
Corrie: Thank you.
De Weerd: Mr. Peters.
Peters: Yes. You had a question, sorry.
De Weerd: On the traffic that’s being generated back in the alley, is it from this particular business or is it just kind of a combination?
Peters: No. Actually the garbage –
*** End of Side One ***
Peters: -- runs that every Wednesday. Other than that that is not used that much. Now and again there’s a truck or something that goes through. I go through in the back to pull my travel
trailer out when I’m using it. Oh, something I should say, I believe I also read on a paper that Mr. Schaub gave me that I was running a business out of my home. That was your thoughts
I think during that time you wrote it up. I’m really not. I have had it rezoned however and I was going to start a business but I couldn’t see it being feasible so I backed out of the
whole thing. Shari made me remember that, a couple years ago.
De Weerd: The traffic that is generated has been pretty much concentrated from this –
Peters: Yeah. Yes Ma’am, excuse me. I was going to say you can see there going into his yard. That was all, that white fence on the right side was all enclosed. They bought the property
in December with intentions for a business and from that point on they opened that fence up and they have been parking in there. There was a time when that alley was so tore up and deep
in ruts that we couldn’t even drive it, just recently this spring.
De Weerd: You had also mentioned there’s building going on? Is he –
Peters: Yeah. There’s projects I should say, different things whatever, excuse me let me look at this Partition Specialties, I know what that means. I know they’re into a number of different
things in regard to commercial construction. They do skylights –
De Weerd: So, they’re assembling or (inaudible)
Peters: Well, they do something there from time to time. Quite often there’s 2 or 3 or more truck. Trucks meaning pick up trucks. There are trailers, tandem axles backed in, in the front
as well as the back.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Peters: All right.
Corrie: Thank you.
Bingham: Mr. Mayor, Councilmen. I’m Michael Bingham. I live at 1329 Meridian Street. I have the corner lot. My concern is also for the alleyway there and the paving of the alleyway and
the tremendous use that’s being used there. Also my concern being, I’m on the corner lot there is the ability for them in that narrow of an alleyway to manipulate those long trailers
and getting around there without knocking my fence over. I’ve noticed several times I couldn’t believe that they got that trailer around there without hitting. I’ve seen it done once
just barely shave it. So, there is a concern that they’re building stuff there and hauling it out in large trailers. The other concern is that just all the usage. The other thing that
was quite concerned me was, I was kind of under the understanding that business couldn’t get into a business until they were approved by the City Council and this has been a business
since December. They’ve been in operation there. That’s all I have.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Corrie: Thank you. Is there one more? Anyone else in the public want to issue testimony? Council, any discussion?
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: All right then, seeing the developer isn’t here to answer theses questions that’s come up I would entertain a motion for the Council to continue this Public Hearing until the
15th.
Bird: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we continue the request for rezone from R-4 to C-G for partition specialties to May 15, 2001.
McCandless: Second
Corrie: Motion’s made and second to continue the Public Hearing until the 15th of this month for questions and answers from the developer or applicant. Any further discussion?
McCandless: No.
Corrie: All those in favor say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT
Item 8. Public Hearing: AZ 01-004 Request for annexation and zoning of 16 acres from RT to R-15 for proposed Fountain Park by David Waldron – southeast corner of Locust Grove and
Wilson Lane:
Item 9. Public Hearing: CUP 01-007 Request for Conditional Use Permit for planned development, proposed Fountain Park on 16 acres for apartments within a proposed R-15 zone by David
Waldron – southeast corner of Locust Grove and Wilson Lane:
Corrie: Item No. 8 is a Public Hearing request for annexation and zoning of 16 acres from R-T to R-15 for proposed Fountain Park by David Waldron southeast corner of Locust Grove and
Wilson Lane. Okay. At this point I will open the Public Hearing for the request for an annexation and staff comments first please.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor, Council. This is for the annexation of the 16 acres that’s immediately south of D & B Supply, Hollywood Video. Property in this location has recently been approved
for Elliot Butte Fence Company and also there’s an application that’s in process for the back portion of that for another industrial/ manufacturing use. On the west side of Locust Grove
Road was the subject of a previous item on the agenda tonight, the Locust Grove Apartments. There are Penn Station Apartments that are in the process of being constructed right now.
Mr. Mayor can we address both of the Public Hearings?
Corrie: Yeah.
Stiles: The Jackson Drain is on the southern boundary of the property. There is going to be a public pathway that’s constructed as part of these apartments here. Once that’s constructed
the pathway will be turned over to the City of Meridian for maintenance. The applicant has proposed a walkway along the Jackson drain. This is identified in our Comprehensive Plan as
a multiple use pathway.
Bird: We’re doing all 3 then, aren’t we Mayor?
Corrie: Yeah. Actually there’s just 2 on that.
Stiles: Yeah.
Corrie: Yeah.
Bird: Oh, 8 and 9. I’m on No. 7 (inaudible)
Stiles: This would be for 216 total units. They have calculated the open space in this development as 51.3 percent. That calculation does exclude the required Locust Grove and Wilson
Street buffers and the Jackson drain. I don’t know if it’s appropriate no to talk about any changes to the recommendations from the Planning and Zoning Commission and I don’t know whether
those have been communicated to the legal department or not. One thing that would need to be waived in order to grant this request that is typically required in all planned development
would be the provision of RV/ boat storage, provision of a maintenance building as they propose to have a landscape maintenance company provide all of that equipment and labor. They’re
also requesting a waiver from tiling the Jackson drain which staff supports all of those requests. Those would need to be included in the recommendations or in the findings if that is
the decision of Council. Also on page 4 of the recommendations to City Council, No. 13 public works should be changed to planning.
Bird: Mr. Mayor. Shari are you talking about the annexation and zoning or the CUP recommendations?
Stiles: I’m sorry I’m talking about the CUP.
Bird: Oh okay.
Corrie: What page was it again?
Stiles: I didn’t see any changes to –
Bird: Page 4 under 13.
Stiles: Also on the CUP recommendations page 6, top of the page, apparently they have the applicant has discussed this with Brad Hawkins-Clark. The landscape area calculations is 51.3
percent which excludes the required Locust Grove and Wilson Street buffers.
Bird: Excludes.
Stiles: Since they have provided that information to our staff, the final sentence of that paragraph could be deleted. We had previously received some correspondence from neighbors
that were concerned that the residential use would be hazardous to their ability to continue in some type of industrial use or to propose an industrial use, particularly this property
here. I don’t know what the plans are south of the Jackson drain but the applicant is aware that hose uses may be forth coming and feels that the design of the project would not be a
problem when adjacent industrial uses come in. They have many garages within the development. They meet and exceed all of our ordinances for landscaping and open space and it’s a good
location. I mean with the other apartments coming in across the street they’re able to walk to a lot of services and conveniences in the area. It seems like a very nice project. Staff
would recommend approval of the application for the annexation and zoning and the conditional use with staff and agency conditions.
Corrie: Any questions for staff at this point? Okay. I’m going to, if it’s all right with the Council, also open up No.9 Public Hearing. This is a request for conditional use permit
so that you can have testimony from both of them. They’ll be taken up as a separate item in the Council but the testimony will be actually for both of them, both the request for annexation
and zoning and the conditional use permit. Okay. Is the developer here this evening? Come up and state your name and address and then address any of the comments that were made by staff
or if you have any different ideas about some of the conditions they had.
Waldron: Thank you. My name is David Waldron. I live at 1933 Spring Brook Lane in Boise. Mr. Mayor and Council Members. We’re hoping that you’ll view this project as an asset to the
community. We put a lot of effort into the site planning and the landscape design to create a park like setting. We’re building, as you can tell it’s a fairly low-density project for
an apartment project. All the buildings are 2 stories. We, at the P&Z meeting we had comments from the immediate neighbor regarding a minor concern about some of the cars parking along
his property and the headlights shining into hie property so we agreed to cooperate with him and provide some additional landscaping. We subsequently had a meeting with him in our office
and I feel came to an agreement on his concerns. I’ll entertain some questions. I’m going to turn it over to Phil Hall who can address some of the technical issues. It’s a project we’re
proud of and we hope you see it that way too.
Corrie: Council, questions?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor
Corrie: Mrs. De Weerd:
De Weerd: Have you seen the recommendations from the Planning and Zoning Commission?
Waldron: Yes.
De Weerd: Do you have any issues with that recommendation?
Waldron: We do not. We have prepared the address to those issues. I think I’ll turn it over to Phil Hall if that’s okay and he can talk about that.
Hall: Mr. Mayor, Members of Council. My name is Phil Hall, the Lane Group 128 south Eagle Road. We have prepared the position statements for both applications. (inaudible) start with
the annexation and rezone application. On item No.2 we would hope that you would accept the way that we have designed the southern portion of this property with keeping the Jackson
drain open and creating an amenity out of that with the 10 foot wide pedestrian pathway.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council members)
Hall: That was the only item on the annexation and rezone recommendation list. I’m jumping over to the CUP. Recommendation No. 14 deals with the percentage of compact stalls being allowed
and basically requiring a petition to have that approved. I would hope that you would approve the plan as shown. No. 15 deals with the storage areas and that was mentioned by staff.
There are plenty of storage companies in close proximity to this project so we hope that that would be removed. Then down to No. 17 bringing the rear elevations of the 16 plex and the
elevation of the 8 plex. We’ve got some colored drawings. Then No. 18 staff mentioned also the 51.3 percent that was actually 50.13. I think a number may have gotten transposed there
but the actual is 50.13. Then on to No. 29 with regards to the maintenance building or structure we are planning on contracting with an outside maintenance company to provide those services.
I believe that’s it.
Corrie: You said No. 17 on the CUP. I don’t see a 17 on this one. What were you talking about?
Hall: On page 5.
Corrie: On this paper you gave us?
Bird: (inaudible) on the one you gave us.
Hall: Oh, I’m sorry. Yeah I just provided the color renderings. It was just asking for something.
Corrie: Oh, all right.
Hall: Yeah. No revision to it.
Corrie: Okay. I see what you’re talking about.
Corrie: Okay, delete. Shari did, on item No. 18 you said 55.3. Do you agree it’s 50.13?
Stiles: They did provide the calculations so it was just a transposition on mine.
Corrie: Thank you. Keep us honest up here. Council, any questions at this point?
Bird: I have none Mayor.
Corrie: Okay. All right. Thank you. Okay is there anyone from the public that would like to issue testimony on this request for annexation and zoning and also the conditional use permit
for Fountain Park? Okay. Council, any discussion for the record on the Public Hearing?
De Weerd: No. Just a comment. It is a very nice project.
Bird: Mr. Mayor
Corrie: Mr. Bird
Bird: Shari after reviewing their replies to the findings do you have any heartaches on any of it.
Stiles: No. I agree with all the requests.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council members)
Corrie: Okay. Any other comments, discussion (inaudible) Public Hearing. Hearing none I’ll entertain a motion to close the Public Hearing on item No. 8 and 9.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor
Corrie: Mrs. De Weerd.
De Weerd: I move we close the Public Hearing on item 8 and 9.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion’s made and second to close the Public Hearing on item No. 8 and No.9 the annexation and zoning and conditional use permit. Any other discussion? Hearing none, all those
in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT
Corrie: Council, discussion?
De Weerd: I have none.
Bird: I have none Mayor
Corrie: Okay. Hearing none, I’ll entertain a motion then on the No. 8 request for annexation and zoning.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor
Corrie: Mrs. De Weerd.
De Weerd: I move that we approve the request for annexation and zoning of 16 acres from R-T to R-15 for the proposed Fountain Park , for the attorney to draw up the appropriate
findings and Decision of Order to include the change on page 2 of the recommendations from Planning and Zoning, to use the language suggested by the applicant and their letter dated
May 1, 2001.
McCandless: Second.
Corrie: Motion’s been made and seconded to approve the request for annexation and zoning and have the Attorney draw up the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law with the changes
as requested by the applicant and the staff comments. Any further discussion? Hearing none, roll call vote Mr. Berg.
Roll-Call: Bird, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Anderson, absent.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT
Corrie: Item No. 9 is the request for conditional use permit for CUP 01-007.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor
Corrie: Mrs. De Weerd
De Weerd: I move that we approve the request for conditional use permit for planned development proposed Fountain Park on 16 acres within a proposed R-15 zone to include the following
changes. On page 4 of the Planning and Zoning recommendations item No. 13 to delete public works and insert planning in the
first sentence. Page 5 item NO. 14 just note that it’s approved as shown on the plan. Delete item No. 15. !8 on page 6 and the first sentence to change 55.81 percent to 50.13 percent
and in the sentence at that point delete the rest of the paragraph and to delete item No. 29 on page 7. To have the attorney draw up the appropriate Findings and Decision of Order.
McCandless: Second
Corrie: Okay. Motion made and seconded to approve the request for Conditional Use Permit including all changes that were made in the motion and for the Attorney to draw up the Findings
director of the order. Any further discussion? Hearing none roll-call vote Mr. Berg.
Roll-Call: Bird, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Anderson, absent.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT
Item 10. Public Hearing: RZ 01-002 Request for Rezone of 0.51 acres from R-4 to L-O for Idaho Banking Company by Idaho Banking Company – 403 West Cherry Lane:
Corrie: Item No. 10 is a Public Hearing request for rezone of .15 or excuse me, .51 acres from R- 4 To L-O for Idaho Banking Company 403west Cherry Lane. At this point I will open
up the Public Hearing and invite the staff’s comments first.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council. This is for the property located the southwest corner of Fourth Street and Cherry Lane. The property has been used as a chiropractor’s office for several
years. I don’t know that it has ever been single family residence. It may have been at some point. The bank has recently repossessed the property and in order to gain their entitlements
and make sure that it is a conforming use, if they decide to sell it or make improvements on the property they have requested the zoning to L-O. We would recommend approval of the L-O
rezone with all staff and agency conditions.
Corrie: Thank you. Any comments form Council? Hearing none, is the applicant here this evening?
Downen: I’m Anne Marie Downen. My address is 320 west south slope road Emmett Idaho. I’m a commercial lender with Idaho Banking Company. The property was a residence in 1983 which at
that time, it was converted to a chiropractic office. It apparently never went through the zoning process.
Bird: Probably didn’t have it then.
Downen: It just kind of became a commercial so when we got it, when we foreclosed and got it back, it lost it’s use as a commercial property. So, we’re just
trying to get it rezoned back to the, basically a housekeeping item so we can sell it.
Corrie: Okay.
Downen: Any questions?
Corrie: Questions, Council? Thank you. This is a Public Hearing. Is there anybody who would like to issue testimony? Hearing none, Council any questions?
Bird: I have none Mayor
Corrie: Okay. I’ll entertain a motion to close the Public Hearing.
Bird: So moved.
De Weerd: Second
Corrie: Motion made and second to close the Public Hearing on item NO. 10. All those in favor say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT
Corrie: Motion carried. Any discussion from Council on the request?
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Okay. Hearing none, I’ll entertain a motion then for the request of rezone.
Bird: Mr. Mayor
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that we approve the request of the rezone of .05, or 0.51 acres from R-4 to L-O for Idaho Banking Company at 403 west Cherry Lane for the attorney to draw up the proper
papers.
De Weerd: Second
Corrie: Okay. Motion’s been made and seconded to approve the request for rezone of the Idaho Banking Company and to have the city attorney draw up the proper papers. Any further discussion?
Hearing none, roll call vote Mr. Berg.
Roll-Call: Bird, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Anderson, absent.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT
Corrie: Okay.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT
Item 11. CUP 01-004 Request for Conditional Use Permit for Eagle Concrete Pumping in a flood plain overlay district in an I-L zone by Eagle Concrete Pumping – north of King, east of
5th Avenue, and west of Baltic Place:
Corrie: Item No. 11 is a CUP 004 request for a Conditional Use Permit for Eagle Concrete Pumping in a flood plain in the overlay district in the I-L zone by Eagle Contract Pumping
north of king east of 5th Avenue and west of Baltic place. Staff comments first on the request for the Conditional Use Permit.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council. This is the second attempt by Eagle Concrete Pumping to be able to build in the City of Meridian. The first site they came through with conditional use
permit by the time they met all the building regulations for building within a flood plain the site became unbuildable and unusable for their purpose. They selected another lot within
the subdivision and since those Conditional Use Permit s are not transferable from one site to another they‘ve had to go through this process again. We will be approaching you in the
near future to get the Conditional Use Permit process repealed from our zoning ordinance for Flood Plane construction because we do have it covered in another area in the building regulations.
Our new planners David McKinnon had worked in Garden City and has extensive experience in Flood Plane development. He did a lot of research on that and determined that everything in
our building regulations meet the same need. So, hopefully we’ll be getting that application through the process again so that you’ll never see one of these again.
De Weerd: We hope so.
Stiles: We would recommend approval with all staff and agency conditions.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor
Corrie: Mrs. De Weerd:
De Weerd: Shari, we did raise that at a workshop a couple weeks ago. It’s scheduled for next week, for initial discussion.
Stiles: Okay.
De Weerd: David did talk with me and you know there’s going to be some big advantages not only through simplifying our process with lack of a CUP requirement but there’s also going
to be some possible savings with Flood Plane insurance and that sort of thing.
Stiles: Yes.
De Weerd: we certainly appreciate all the hard work you’ve put into that.
Stiles: He really has. We’re lucky to have him.
Corrie: Is the applicant, have any questions about the recommendation of the Planning and Zoning?
De Weerd: You’re back again.
Larson: Mr. Mayor, members of the Council. My name is Cornell Larson address 210 Murray, Boise Idaho. I am back. I’m sorry I’m back but we are back to meet the requirements –
De Weerd: I know you’re (inaudible)
Larson: -- of the ordinance. We do not have any comments and have reviewed the staff report and can concur with that and would like to proceed with your approval.
Bird: Yeah, about time.
Corrie: Thank you.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council members)
Corrie: Council, any questions in reference to the request for Conditional Use Permit?
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Hearing none, I’ll entertain a motion on the request.
Bird: Mr. Mayor
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that we approve the Conditional Use Permit for Eagle Concrete Pumping in a Flood Plane overlay district in I-L zone by Eagle Concrete Pumping north of King, east of 5th
Avenue, west of Baltic Place for the attorney to draw up the proper papers and with staff comments.
De Weerd: Second
Corrie: Okay. Motion’s been ,made an seconded to approve the request for Conditional Use Permit No. 01004 Eagle Concrete Pumping and to have all the staff comments included. Any further
discussion? Hearing none, Roll call vote Mr. Berg.
Roll-Call: Bird, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Anderson, absent.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT
Item 12. CUP 01-009 Request for Conditional Use Permit for planned development to include office, retail and industrial for proposed Treasure Valley Technical Center by Meridian Freeway
Associates and DBSI Industrial Limited Partnership – ¼ mile east of Linder Road, north side of Overland Road:
Corrie: Keith will you handle No.12 for me?
Bird: Yes. Okay, item CUP 01-009 request for a Conditional Use Permit for planned development to include retail, office and industrial proposed Treasure Valley Technical Center by Meridian
Freeway Associates and DBSI Industrial Limited Partnership. Okay, staff your report please.
Stiles: Mr. President, Council. This is for the property adjacent to where the existing Western Electronics facility is. The applicant would like to do a planned development in this
area and they had submitted a concept of their potential building layout. This will be a private road. It is now known as Tech Lane. This would need to remain a private until it were
dedicated through some sort of subdivision process however they don’t have any plans at this point that we’re aware of to actually subdivide the property. They had requested quite an
extensive list of proposed uses in this light industrial zone. Staff and the Planning and Zoning Commission did not feel comfortable with all those uses that they had proposed. They
did look at the overall plan and it appeared to be acceptable however their recommendation was only uses that are allowed in the I-L zone such as the manufacturing facility that’s there
now would be permitted without going through another conditional use process. They do have some proposed elevations as far as I know they don’t have any plans for a tenant at this time.
They would like to be able to provide similar type buildings throughout the development. Since the time that they were, the Planning and Zoning commission had met and decided that they
would be required to go through the Conditional Use Permit process we did receive a letter from DBSI. Hopefully you have that in your packets. They would like to clarify their intent
and request that a day care center, professional and sales offices and community and neighborhood shopping centers be permitted through the Conditional Use Permit process as
they are now specifically prohibited in that zone. Is the applicant here? (inaudible)
(inaudible discussion amongst Council members)
Stiles: Maybe they can further give me some more information on some of their plans and where they were headed. We met with the applicant and we weren’t real sure where to go whether
to try to plat it first or do the Conditional Use Permit. They weren’t really prepared to commit to a plat at this point but they did want to be able to develop more than the single
building on the lot and be ale to be approved for some uses other than might be specifically permitted in our outdated industrial zone regulations. We would recommend approval with staff
and agency conditions. We would also agree that they would be able to do a day care canter, professional and sales office and a community and neighborhood shopping center through another
Conditional Use Permit. I know that’s not much of an approval but they would like to be able to market the property with the insurance that they would be able to have those other uses.
If they’re trying to get other tenants in there, the tenants want to be assured there’s a possibility for that rather than be told outright that no those are prohibited uses, it’s not
even a possibility. I don’t know if this still the right way to go. Whether we should have looked at a rezone. There is no zone that we have that really covers all of the uses they’d
be proposing. They did want to build a day care facility on the same lot as the Western Electronics building but due to the fact it’s not located within the building they would have
to have a Conditional Use Permit to operate a day care but day cares are specifically prohibited in the zone. That’s the reason for this request. If we steered them the wrong way I apologize.
Just after discussion it for quite some time we thought this might be a good way to go about it. Hopefully we’re not wrong. I’m getting looks from Bill Nichols so I –
Corrie: Are we addressing this in the new comp plan, some of this?
Stiles: It would require ordinance changes. We do have a zone that exists that’s never been used, an MUR zone, mixed-use review zone. It’s never been used but it is in the zoning
ordinance. It’s difficult for projects like this and also for Silverstone where they come in they want to find a zone that will accommodate everything they might need in a development
and we don’t have a zone that exists that would accommodate it. It’s probably going to take coming up with a whole new zoning designation for specifically high tech type development
such as these because I just think we’re going to get more and more of them.
Corrie: We’re definitely growing so. Is the applicant, I know you’re here tonight.
Tarry: Mr. Mayor, Council Members. I’m Tim Tarry with BRS Architect. We’re representing the applicant. Shari thank you for the report, it laid the foundation pretty well. As you can
tell, we were kind of up against some odds trying to figure out how to do this best. Our initial reaction was that we needed to look at some
sort of an avenue to be able to at least get some concepts out and be able to approach this as a marketing tool. Through the avenue of discussion with Shari and some additional dialogue
we finally came up with this solution to present before you. Our concept here is to look at this as a marketing vehicle, just as Shari said to be able to market his with these potential
uses in mind. The building locations, footprints can have some sort of an evolutionary kind of thing to them depending on how the marketing interest is given to this. I know that it’s
kind of a nebulas thing at this point but so be it as it is. We’re looking at these uses alone and that’s what we’re going to concentrate on. The day care, and there are some of these
uses we’re looking at as probably if you will more of a mixed use type concept and what we’re meaning by this is to hopefully capture a lot of vehicular traffic and keep them on site.
Such as with the day care, retail, we’ll probably have some restaurants within that retail mix, the offices again, possibly some storage and et cetera. Possibly the mix will be able
to augment each other towards a better development overall kind of keeping localized rather than spread out in terms of traffic development. That’s about it. I’m going (inaudible) for
some questions if you should have any.
Corrie: Council?
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Boy, they’ve been an easy bunch to talk to tonight.
Tarry: Yeah.
Corrie: Okay.
Bird: Nice (inaudible) present presentation.
Tarry: Thank you.
Corrie: Okay. Comments, Council, staff?
Bird: I have none Mayor
Corrie: All right. I will then entertain a motion for the request of Treasure Valley Technical Center for the Conditional Use Permit.
Bird: Mr. Mayor
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would move that we approve the Conditional Use Permit for the planned development to include office, retail and industrial for proposed Treasure Valley Technical Center by Meridian
Freeway Associates and DBSI Industrial Limited
Partnership and to include modifying the list of additional CUPs to day care center, professional and sales office, community and neighborhood shopping centers and for the attorney to
draw up the proper papers.
Corrie: Did you want to include the staff conditions?
Bird: Yes, (inaudible) staff conditions also. Thank you.
De Weerd: Second
Corrie: Motion made and second to approve the request for the Conditional Use Permit to include staff conditions and modify the CUP and to have the attorney draw up the proper paper.
Any further discussion? Okay, Mr. Berg.
Roll-Call: Bird, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Anderson, absent.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT
Item 13. CUP 01-005 Request for Conditional Use Permit for gasoline facility consisting of a 3,612 square-foot canopy over 5 multi-product dispensers, cashier’s kiosk and parking
lot improvements in a C-G zone for Fred Meyer Gasoline Facility by Dakota Company, Inc. – 1850 East Fairview Avenue:
Corrie: Item No. 13 is a CUP (inaudible) 005 request for Conditional Use Permit for a gasoline facility consisting of 3,612 square foot canopy, over 5 multi-product dispensers, cashier’s
kiosk and parking lot improvements in a C- G zone by Fred Meyer gasoline facility by Dakota Company. At this point, staff comments on the request.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council. If this project looks familiar it should be. The only thing that seems to have changed is they got a new traffic study from another traffic engineer.
I don’t believe anything else has changed. Our recommendation is still to deny the project based on the findings that were previously prepared for the project. Thanks.
Corrie: Do you have any questions of staff at this point?
Bird: I have none Mayor.
Corrie: Okay. Where did he go? Oh, applicant –
Stiles: Oh, okay.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council members)
Durkin: My name is Larry Durkin. My address is 380 east Park Center Boulevard. I’m with Dakota Company and I’m here tonight on behalf of the applicant. Just to comment on Shari’s comment
on the change, there’s another change in that Fred Meyer has a different consultant handling his applications for that and I’ll talk about that.---
*** End of Side Two ***
Durkin: -- food and general merchandise. You may know that there’s a bank inside the store, a coffee shop, an ice cream shop, dry cleaning, sandwich shops et cetera. These services allow
shoppers to do many things without driving around the city. Fuel is the same thing. It’s an additional service to provide to Meridian consumers that will allow Fred Meyer to continue
to compete with Wal –Mart, Kmart, WinCo et cetera. IN preparing for the hearing tonight, I carefully reviewed the minutes from the last Council meeting and I carefully looked up the
presentation by Fred Meyer’s consultant and the comments from the Council. A real important point was brought up by Councilman Anderson. He said the applicant hasn’t shown why this is
important to the City of Meridian. We have a burden to show that this is important and I want to stress to you that Fred Meyer is the lifeblood of this center. More than 15 other tenants
depend on Fred Meyer traffic in the center. Without this service, Fred Meyer will be at a serious disadvantage as well as the other shops and tenants will be at a serious disadvantage.
When a major retailer is at a serious disadvantage and when the tenants that rely on the business of a major retailer are at a disadvantage you begin to see the turn over, the deterioration
of the center. The question was asked last time well gee is Fred Meyer going to leave and go someplace else if they don’t get this? Probably not, but will they do well? Certainly not.
If they don’t do well, the Subway guy doesn’t do well, the bank operation doesn’t do well. You start seeing that turnover that turnover vacancy and the beginning of the deterioration
is that important area of Meridian. Our request is well within the guidelines of the city code. The parking ratios meet or exceed all the city requirements. The landscaping exceeds all
of the city codes now in place. The signage is well within the city code. I’d like to just draw your attention to the staff report. On page 6 of the staff report. Actually it begins
on page 5. It talks about the Comprehensive Plan policies. I know Meridian’s in the process of developing a new Comprehensive Plan. I’m not aware of any modifications in that plan that
would change some of the points that the staff highlighted here. I really think it’s important, I think you know I usually try to zip through these things as quickly as I can but I want
to go over these point by point and stress to you how they relate to this particular application. To set aside areas where commercial interests and activities are to dominate. You’ve
already done that with this location. You’ve set this aside. It’s been developed as a commercial area. Then 1.4 positive programs should be undertaken to support existing commercial
areas to insure their continued vitality. That’s in the Comprehensive Plan of the City of Meridian and it’s an important point to make. In the land use chapter, encourage new commercial
development within under utilized existing commercial areas. Well,
why is this under utilized? If we were trying to squeeze this in with inadequate parking, with inadequate landscaping, over burdening the sign package et cetera but we have the land,
we have the parking. We’re well in compliance with this. I believe that that 4.23 U would apply. Under 2.2 U encourage area beautification through uniform sign design that enhances the
community. I’m going to walk over to the – The last time this application was before you asked question s of the applicant’s consultant. He just didn’t have the answers and he wasn’t
prepared. One of the questions came up in reviewing the minutes of the hearing, what’s the signage? His answer was I really don’t know. It’s not going to be much. But I want to point
out to you how absolutely tinsey it will be. Will, can I write on this?
(inaudible discussion amongst Council members)
Bird: Why don’t you grab that (inaudible)
Corrie: Just grab the mike there. You can it’s yours until it’s ours so, do what you need.
Durkin: The only sign that Fred Meyer is adding as a result of this, I have a photo of that I’ll give you, is located right here on the plan. So, they’re not coming in with something
and adding a bunch of signage that would negatively effect the area. The last time that you considered this request, your decision was based on very, very poor data provided by Fred
Meyer’s consultant. I have a representative from Fred Meyer, an employee of Fred Meyer here tonight and Dakota Company and Fred Meyer’ sorry that the data you received last time was
so inadequate. We’ve spent a lot of time and tried to give you the correct data tonight. If I don’t answer any of your questions to your satisfaction, Dick Clark from Fred Meyer Stores
will happily help out. But, in that presentation and in reviewing the minutes I don’t know if you read these in your packet, there is a consistent confusion on where this is located.
There’s comments on the record that the new fuel island would be maybe 150 feet maybe 125 feet from the corner of Locust Grove. It’s about 825 feet from the corner of Locust Grove. It’s
clarified later that it’s near Subway next to the Texaco station. Councilman Bird was passing around a site plan because some of the Council had different site plans that were provided
to you by the applicant that weren’t consistent. So, tonight we have one site plan that’s mounted on a board. That’s our application. You can see where the fuel island is located and
it’s a great distance away from Locust Grove. The last time you acted on this the Planning and Zoning commission had approved it unanimously and they have approved it unanimously again
this time. Our request was denied at Council for the following 3 reasons, traffic congestion, inadequate parking, and hazards to pedestrians. I’d like to just talk about those 3 points
one by one. The traffic congestion will include about 230 trips per day and will be dispersed evenly over the entire center.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council members)
Durkin: This is a letter that we’ve submitted. We’ve run this by ACHD and they’re agreeable with these counts. But in addition I think you may know I develop these types of things in
a lot of other areas. I’ve seen traffic studies for Wal-Mart, for WinCo, for Sam’s Club, and for other facilities where they’re adding this facility. The last traffic study that you
had we believe was woefully inadequate. I don’t even know if you had a study or just a comment from a traffic engineer. There were some questions about are there new curb cuts and where
the cars are going to come from. There are no new curb cuts in the shopping center. If the use was moved to one end of the center or the other, the burden would increase dramatically
on one driveway. With its location here and the traffic flow in the shopping center, the use will be dispersed over several driveways. I’ d like to just explain why. If you look at the
Fred Meyer store and I think most of you are familiar with the layout, the left-hand side of the store as you’re looking at it is the food section of the store. The right hand side is
the general merchandise section of the store. The most frequently used section of the store is over on the far left hand side, but consumers come in from Locust Grove, from Fairview,
so this is really a central location utilizing the two or three driveways on Fairview as well as the driveway on the private street and on the Locust Grove area. The developer of the
shopping center is happy with this location. The other tenants in the shopping center are happy with this location. We believe that this location is the best location for what we’re
trying to provide. I’d like to just talk about parking for a moment. Now that you have the correct information, inadequate parking does not work as a reason for denial. The Fred Meyer
parcel still exceeds the ratios in the ordinance even after this is developed. Each of the pads in the shopping center exceed the required parking ratios on their own. In total or in
part after this improvement is completed the parking ratios exceed all of the city requirements. They exceed the ratios at other large centers in Meridian. In reviewing the minutes there
were questions about how many parking stalls were going to be removed and how many were going to be replaced. The applicant’s consultant didn’t know the answer. It’s no in the staff
report. It’s the result of careful review of the shop drawings and surveys. Then we were so concerned about it that we actually went out and walked and counted every single parking stall
in that shopping center. Our application if it’s approved will result in 40 less parking stalls in the shopping center. Your third concern was a hazard to pedestrians. In your previous
denial, you stated that a reason is an unacceptable hazard to pedestrians. But as you can see with the correct data the fuel island is more than 100 feet back from the sidewalk on Fairview
Avenue. It’s more than 800 feet off of the intersection of Locust Grove. The drive lane area of the fuel island is more than 40 feet away from the sidewalk with a landscape berm separating
the fueling traffic form the sidewalk area. It’s a fully landscaped berm and will not not be modified with this application. In downtown Meridian for example there are 3 stations in
a heavily traveled pedestrian area with no separation at all from the pedestrians. Yet I’m not aware of any problems with this. There are no fuel operations in Meridian with such a large
set back. Fred Meyer, Dakota Company and other consultants involved cannot see a hazard to any pedestrians in this layout. In the past you recommended a relocation to another point in
the center.
This relocation will not work for Fred Meyer. Nor will it work for the developer who is sign and approve any modifications. Nor will it work for the other tenants in the shopping center.
Many of which are required to sign and approve the modifications as part of their leases. Your preferred location is in the back of the building. I’m just going to walk back over to
your thing. Your preferred location was in the back of this building or in this area. It would result in people coming in a private street. This is a narrower street than the normal
ACHD streets but not only that remembering what I told you earlier about the heaviest used area of the store. The shoppers that would utilize this most frequently would be crisscrossing
back and forth across the shopping center. With this location the users of this fuel island would be accessing most likely here, here, some from here and some from here. But even with
that relocation I think that your previous concerns would still have to be in place. We firmly believe that our location is safer and it’s just a far better location than locating it
behind the Subway building. I have a couple of photos that I’d like to hand to one end and maybe pass them down to (inaudible) These are photos of a recently completed fuel island at
the Fred Meyer in Garden City. The difference on this one, obviously the way it lays out on the parking lot. There are twice as many signs on this fuel island operation that I’m going
to hand you than there will be on this store here.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council members)
Durkin: I’d like to just talk for a moment about the industry standards and what’s going on in the industry. I’m going to hand you a couple of articles that I don’t expect you to read
before you make a decision tonight but I’ll hand these articles to you and then I’ll summarize them briefly in my discussion. The first one is a recent article. I think its from yesterdays
Wall Street Journal in fact. It just talks about the industry trend, how Sam’s Club, Wal-Mart, Albertson’s, to name a few are actively pursuing these types of operations. It talks about
the numbers that are being added, where they’re adding them. I could tell you with 100 percent certainty that Wal-Mart will be coming in with an application for one in Meridian. This
is just showing you that it’s an industry trend that all of the discount stores and food stores are going to be facing this. I brought another photo, one I think you’ll recognize. I’ll
hand this again to Councilman Bird, pass it down. Many of these operators this is what they build. Although this is a chevron. Albertson’s for example built a full convenience store
with a car wash and other things. These articles talk about that. The Fred Meyer fuel island is on the Kroger model and it’s strictly fuel. It’s not adding those other services. Its
not adding the signs and congestion related to those other services. The second article I gave you is from the Bible of the grocery store business and it’s a trade publication I read
every week. It’s called supermarket news. This is a recent cover story they had about (inaudible) out and it talks about all of the other companies that are doing this. How many they
had. How many of these fuel islands they had a year ago and how many they have now and what’s forecasted in the future. I’m giving you this so you can see with certainty that this is
definitely a trend that’s happening in the industry. I’m asking you to seriously consider our application tonight knowing that
it meets the comp plan criteria, knowing that it meets the parking criteria, knowing that the traffic and other related matters have been addressed and are sufficiently taken care of.
If it’s just an arbitrary thought gee I think it’ll be nicer to have it over there, I want you to know that that will kill the application for Fred Meyer. We cannot get the developer’s
approval for that location. Nor can we get the necessary tenants approval for that location. We think that the application that we’ve presented with the low lighting and the lack of
signage will fit into the area. I strongly request that you give our application favorable consideration tonight. I’ll happily answer any questions.
Bird: Mr. Mayor
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Larry, this is a much better presentation than we heard last time but I would like you to go over that thing and walk me through your scenario of how people are going to drive
in and drive out.
Durkin: I know that was a good and valid concern of yours.
Bird: I drive by that thing too many times –
Durkin: The answer I don’t know doesn’t cut it. (inaudible) scribble on this. You can have this. First of all on this plan, we’re showing this everything you see right here is underground
–
Bird: Yes.
Durkin: In the photos that I’ve handed you that would be a flat concrete area. There’s nothing here above ground. These pumps, the drive lanes are going this direction. (inaudible)
Bird: Yes.
Durkin: I think though a lot of the concern before was that people were going to be leaving the pump area going out this way. The consultant didn’t know which way the pumps were going
to be going. The way the design is now, if you’re driving down this row of parking, you have ample room to turn out and leave or go whichever way you’re going to go in the center. But
if you desire fuel, you’ll be able to drive in and get fuel this way. If you’re coming in off Fairview, you’ll be able to drive in, get your fuel and there’s a number of different exit
scenarios. Going over this with two different engineering firms, it just far exceeds any traffic flow restrictions that you might see. For example, even at the Chevron across the street,
you can go straight, you can turn right. The opportunity for congestion around here is really minimal. I think that was your question. Did I understand it correct.
Bird: (inaudible) Larry, to be truthful with you, I’ve got some real concern on the congestion in there. You’re shoving a lot of people and I realize that I think you guys had 20 vehicle
trips per peak. If that’s all that you’re planning on for peak, I can’t understand why we need 5 pumps. Why not reduce and go to 2 pumps or 3 pumps if the 20 vehicles is your peak. I
have concern of people coming out from the bagels and Subway and all that and I just see a lot of congestion, people pulling out people walking. Traffic walking from the store out to
– and I realize a lot of people don’t walk that far out and stuff. I just felt that it was awful awful tight. I was the one that, I’d like a good explanation why, other than exposure
and sales, why it can’t go back up in that parking back there that is very little used.
Durkin: Well, exposure –
Bird: I understand.
Durkin: -- is important. Sales are important. Remember this is a card-activated facility so 24 hours a day you can drive in, insert your credit card and get your fuel. It’s important
to have that here since everything else is closed at that time versus in the back from a safety standpoint. There are additional development plans going on across the street here. This
is a vacant lot and there’s an application, I don’t know if it’s in front of you yet, for, if it isn’t it will be soon for over in this area. I think the comment that you made about
you driving you by here a couple times a day and you see a lot of traffic here, a lot of the traffic that you see here is utilizing these other services here. A lot of the traffic
that we anticipate coming here is going to be going in and taking advantage of the other things at Fred Meyer. There isn’t a big sign out here saying come in. The only fuel pricing sign
that they’ll have can see from the store. When you leave the store, you won’t be driving by Fairview here and seeing the signage here. You have to be up in the parking lot to see it.
That’s on our applications, that’s on the plans that we’ve submitted to you. I just don’t believe its going to be a congestion here. Dolby Engineering doesn’t believe its going to be
a congestion here. I do a lot of business with Fred Meyer and other stores and that’s a big concern of theirs when we’re doing the early layout of the stores is congestion. Customers
don’t like it. They complain about it and its not something they do on purpose.
Bird: Larry, I can tell from the photos but the one down on Chinden there, the Fred Meyer’s on Chinden where is that located, on the east of the entry?
Durkin: I’m really glad you asked that.
Bird: But they’ve got a stop light there to come in on too.
Durkin: You know, where that is, this is why – That’s a really good point. I’d like to just mention this is why its so important for Fred Meyer to have it front and center. On that
location because it’s a state highway with limited access, you
literally have to drive in the driveway, come down, turn around, go all the way through the center to get to it.
Bird: Off the lighted, the stop light –
Durkin: Let’s just say –
Bird: That’s Chinden –
Durkin: This is Chinden Boulevard –
Bird: -- going west.
Durkin: You would turn in here, come all the way up to the front of the store because it’s a protective curb all the way up. You’d come across here, turn down, go through, either go
out that same way or you go out and kind of meandering –
Bird: Yes, it goes around by those –
Durkin: (inaudible)
Bird: -- jockey lube or whatever that thing is.
Durkin: -- so it’s critical to Fred Meyer to have it in the front from a visibility standpoint but more importantly, I think as importantly as a safety issue.
Bird: I don’t deny that at all. It is a good presentation. I just really still have concerns with safety and the congestion in that shopping center. I know why you don’t want to move
it to the back. If I was in the business I wouldn’t want to move it back either.
Durkin: Councilman Bird, you know there was a comment in the last hearing that the idea was bucks in Fred Meyer’s pocket. I certainly hope they make a profit on it.
Bird: If they don’t they won’t be in business long.
Durkin: But, you know they take seriously, the whole front of their store if you’re familiar with it is full of small shops, they rent from Fred Meyer. They feel duty bound to these
people to continue to stay current. The articles that I’ve given you are evidence for the record showing that this is a critical thing for all of their competitors to stay current. They
take it seriously their obligation to Subway. Subway is actually thrilled about this. I’ve talked to Blain Jacobson, he calls me and emails me frequently, have you gotten that approved,
we want that, we want that. Bruegers is enthused about it. Mc Donald’s is enthused about it now that it’s
moved away from their drive through conflict. The tenants in the center that read and are familiar with the industry know how important it is. There has not been a single solitary negative
testimony at any hearing on this from any of the residents or any of the tenants with this location. I appreciate your concerns. Your concerns are your concerns. I can only tell you
that the engineers and the people that are involved in this feel that there is not going to b e any congestion in that area. That there are many projects both in Meridian, Boise and
all around that would be much greater congestion, that this would be the most desirable circumstance. A relocation –
Bird: Is out of the question?
Durkin: -- Just tell me no, don’t tell me because I can’t. there’s a shopping center here when we got this approved in 1995 we were required to have a common area maintenance agreement
and a cross season use agreement that ran with the land. That’s recorded. City attorney has it on their files. One of the little things in that document that’s kind of an (inaudible)
saying modifications, changes, blah, blah, blah, blah require the consent of a number of parties –
Bird: I understand.
Durkin: -- and I can’t get that consent. I’ve tried and I can’t get it. I do have a letter – A Best, they’re the owners of the other buildings and the surrounding land and the mini storage.
They have a significant investment here. They’re enthused about this. They want Fred Meyer to remain competitive with the other people that are coming or that are here now and that will
be coming. I know Kmart’s going to be building a new store and either closing or rebuilding their store at five mile. They’ll have fuel. Some other big boxes that are coming into the
area that will have fuel. Wal-Mart will be submitting an application any day, we’ll be submitting it for them for a fuel island at the corner of Venture and Fairview, right next to their
tire service area. It’s a big deal to have.
Corrie: Larry, you say it’s a big deal, I’m sure it is as far as the stores are concerned. We’ve got one in the hopper now with Albertson’s wanting to come back and do it again at
Cherry Lane. How much percentage do you think that people are going to come across that parking lot and use that gas station compared to what’s coming off Fairview and turning in there,
with the prices going to be a lot less than some of the other stations? How do you come up with that figure?
Durkin: Mr. Mayor, I have to tell you this is a long answer to a very easy question.
Corrie: That’s all right. I’ve got time.
Durkin: Fred Meyer, as a company has a long record of not giving anything away. They are fairly priced but other people in this business Wal-Mart for example
sometimes will give away food to sell general merchandise, sometimes they give away general merchandise to sell food and they play that game. Fred Meyer, and I’ve researched them extensively,
it’s an 85, 90-year-old company – am I close? 75-year-old company, I read about them for years and years and they don’t , they have not had that policy in the past. So, the likely hood
of them taking the Wal-Mart approach of giving gas away to get people in there , its not a real likely scenario. Your question about what percentage of people are going to drive across
the parking lot to get fuel, is that –
Corrie: Compared to coming in off of Fairview.
Durkin: I think that in the neighborhood, I’m just giving percentages now, I think in the neighborhood of 80 percent of the people that use that fuel island will be coming to or from
the Fred Meyer store.
Corrie: Okay. Based upon that, if Fred Meyer doesn’t play the same game that Wal-Mart does and maybe Albertson’s what would be the incentive for a person to go to Fred Meyer’s kiosk
than to Wal-Mart and the Albertson’s if their prices is 10 cents lower?
Durkin: You know one of the articles I gave you talks about how price sensitive fuel is and it is. It’s a price sensitive item.
Corrie: Right.
Durkin: I had a picture there of the shopper that’s shopping there. She’s a 35, 40-year-old woman. She’s driving a mini van and she has 2 kids in the car. She’s doing her grocery shopping,
she’s either doing her grocery shopping on her way to or from another event with the children and it’s a convenient pull in to do it all in one parking lot. To pull out of that parking
lot to go to the Chevron which is really close. I admit its really close, once that commitments made to leave that parking lot, It doesn’t matter unless she’s on empty and the fuel light’s
on, it doesn’t matter if she does it now or 20 minutes from now or after the soccer practice. So, the idea is to capture that or more than anything to incent that person to, when we
leave soccer practice I have to get fuel. I’m going to get it at Fred Meyer because I like to shop there and combine that. The studies show that the people getting fuel are also getting
groceries and other things. Albertson’s, I'm sure their application on Cherry Lane will have a convenience store. They have about a 5,000 square foot convenience store with theirs. They
combine it all in one building. Fred Meyer and Kroger, they don’t do that. They have just a small kiosk and they’re relying on the person to come into the store for their grocery and
other items.
Corrie: I’m sure you realize that probably the question is going to be coming down tot he Council is if we approve this, it’s opening the gates that everybody’s got a place like Fred
Meyer’s, Wal-Mart, Albertson’s. I mean that’s –
Durkin: May I respond to that because that’s one of my favorite things –
Corrie: Yeah, I just made a comment but you can certainly.
Durkin: I just love it when the whole idea of a precedent comes up. I use it sometimes in my presentations. You know Mayor, I would say that if you have another applicant that has an
18 acre parking lot completed surrounded by commercial development that can add this service and still exceed parking ratios, still exceed the landscape ratios, that had still be under
the sign ordinance and still have a traffic flow and a traffic study like that, then I think that it should be approved. But if somebody comes in and says gee I’ve got D&B Supply. I
have a 4 to 1 parking ratio right now City ordinance is 5. I want to add a Java drive up, what’s the difference? You could say no you can’t because you don’t meet the ratios. I meet
every single solitary criteria in the city ordinance book. The zoning's right, I’m not across the street or next to any residential, I’m a great distance away contrary to the previous
consultant’s presentation that it was right across the street from a residential area. He was confused. He was thinking it was up on Locust Grove. I would say that if another applicant
came in and said, you approved for Fred Meyer, if they can meet the criteria and the hurdle that we have then it’s a fair application. But I don’t believe that will happen very often.
Corrie: As usual, you do a nice job, presentation.
Durkin: Well, I –
Corrie: I’m not sure I’m convinced —
Durkin: Mayor I must stress to you I’m here tonight with a little bit different tone than I am at my other presentations because I know that this is a very serious request by Fred Meyer.
There’s not a lot of area, a lot of wiggle room for them on this application. When we make other applications I can try to compromise and move and do a lot of things but we’re locked
in here between a small area and with Fred Meyer being a good corporate neighbor and a good community company to the City of Meridian and with all of the points that I’ve made I think
its fair to ask for your support.
Bird: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: (inaudible)
Corrie: I thought maybe it was Tammy –
Bird: Larry, I’ve got one question that’s probably none of my business, but you’re saying this is really, really important to Fred Meyer’s. What percent of sales in that store is that
gas station going to be?
Durkin: Very very minor. I mean I don’t –
Bird: Half percent?
Durkin: You know I really don’t know.
Bird: On a good day they’ll probably do 2500 to 3,000 in the gas and probably –
Durkin: More than anything else –
Bird: 800 a day in the store.
Durkin: You know it would be like saying what percentage of sales in their grocery department is milk. It’s really an insignificant amount of their sales but would you go to a grocery
store and buy groceries if they didn’t sell milk? Would you go if they didn’t have a seafood department. You know –
Bird: Yeah but gas isn’t, gas is, of course you didn’t serve yourself, you went in they serviced you and they did the whole works, now I realize everything’s went to self serve now.
To find a full service gas station anymore –
Durkin: That’s why I thought it was so important that I give you for the record the industry data that I did. Because things are changing drastically and this is rapidly becoming a very,
very common service for grocery stores and general merchandise stores, membership warehouse clubs. While, if I would have asked for this 5 years ago when we built the shopping center,
you would have thought I was nuts. It’s now a fairly routine request and becoming more and more so.
Bird: Mr. Mayor. With your permission I’d like to (inaudible) Larry, you addressed some of the things but I still want – I’ve got some scenarios here on entries and exits. (inaudible)
Okay, you’re telling me that this is going to come down, people are going to come through like this and gas up right? They’re going to hopefully pull out and come out like this.
Durkin: If they were doing it on their way out.
Bird: That’s what I’m talking about. We don’t know what percent we’re going to have there that comes from this area. Let’s say 50 –50. Okay this guy pulls ion here, and he goes oh man,
I’m going to gas up before I go to the store so he’s here and this guys coming out like that. Or he pulls in here and here comes a car out like – I have a real problem with it being
that close to this entrance.
Durkin: Keith that’s why I tried to scribble this out right in the beginning because I think this is a distraction. This is a very, very wide drive lane area. This is not any obstacle
what so ever. The kiosk is right back here. So, somebody that’s gassing up here, there’s a lot of area to maneuver out here. This is the least used parking area in the whole shopping
center. So somebody coming out here, they could certainly go to this driveway, they can go down to this driveway or if they’re fueling coming in, you know they’re going up to the store.
There’s so many opportunities that that scenario that you’re painting is a real minor scenario.
Bird: Driving through there, this is probably the least used entrance right now. This one’s very heavily used. That one’s very heavily used and I don’t know how Chief Gordon could tell
us (inaudible) quite a few percent of wrecks in the city of Meridian that’s got to be at those (inaudible) Anyway, with this deal here, we’re going to double the usage of that entrance
I think. That to me, now I’m just saying if this was my (inaudible) it really (inaudible) a lot of congestion, cross traffic congestion in this area. That’s why I thought it would be
better back up in there but I’m not a marketer. We do have a lot more facts now.
Durkin: I don’t know what else I can tell you other than Dolby Engineering does traffic studies for Fred Meyer on a regular basis. He doesn’t do them for Fred Meyer to get approvals.
He does their whole analysis for their parking lots. If there’s a problem he gets in trouble. He does Fred Meyer work all over the northwest. Fred Meyer looks heavily to our company
for advise and counsel on all of their stores in this area. I can’t make a recommendation to them that’s irresponsible. We utilize local consultants like Quadrant Consulting. Everyone
that’s involved is completely satisfied that that isn’t an issue. If there are wrecks at those driveways – Keith I think you were on the Council when we brought this here the last time.
We have a standing offer in writing to Ada County Highway District to fund, pay for a light at that private street. I know that Larry Sale has testified to that effect in front of this
group.
Bird: Good luck.
Durkin: They think that is a bout 110 feet too close to the Locust Grove intersection so they’d rather not have any light. In front of the entire shopping center there is a free flowing
right turn lane which we put in because without a light we felt that was going to be the safest. Everything we’ve done in the development of this center, that’s a primary concern of
ours.
Bird: I agree with you Larry. You have done everything but it still don’t add up for the congestion and coming across and letting cars out and stuff like that. I compliment you guys.
You’ve done 10 times better presentation this time and everything so. I’ve still got a concern on the congestion around that. I wish it was 100 feet farther in than what it is you know.
At least get people a chance – you’ve got it coming out of the Subway and out of the gas thing right at the same elevation.
Durkin: Well, the canopy itself is 100 feet back. The fuel pumps are 117 feet back from the sidewalk area.
Bird: Yeah I know that but I wish it was 200 foot.
Durkin: That’s a great distance back.
Bird: I know it is.
Durkin: Comparing you know to other areas that are 7 or 10 –
Bird: I know.
Durkin: -- this is –
Bird: And I realize it’s you know if you don’t make a profit there’s no sense in putting it in. We certainly not here to take profits out of company’s pockets.
Durkin: I guess I was saying before I’m more serious with this application than with others in front of you because I really believe that without this Fred Meyer will survive --
*** End of Side Three ***
Durkin: -- a significant negative impact. I know it will on Subway and some of the other people. I really believe that it’ll have an impact on some of the other tenants in the center.
Bird: Larry, basically it’s going to be bagels and Subway and I can’t remember who the other –
Durkin: Cleaners.
Bird: -- cleaners and but I don’t see those people in the back – I don’t see McDonald’s driving anymore because there’s a gas station there.
Durkin: I don’t think there’ll –
Bird: Mc Donald’s is going to draw regardless. I understand that with those people out front, subway and you know Blain the more people he can get into the area the better off he is.
I understand that.
Durkin: Keith if there’s a couple thousand people less coming into this store, let’s just say there’s 3,000 fewer shoppers going into the Fred Meyer store because they have fuel and
shopping and similar services available at Fairview and Eagle.
Fred Meyer will survive forever. They have more money than they know what to do with and it’s a good company.
Bird: They don’t appreciate you throwing that out.
Durkin: (inaudible)
De Weerd: (inaudible)
Durkin: The franchise for Moxie Java relies on the Fred Meyer traffic. The Baskin Robbins guy is a franchise operation, he’s not Mr. Robbins or Mr. Baskin. He’s relying on that traffic
so that’s what I think is so serious about this. Fred Meyer will survive for a long, long, long time without fuel here but that other tenants in the shopping center are going to notice
a deterioration and I believe the minutes from the last meeting didn’t reflect that. I think the Comprehensive Plan text does reflect the importance of that and encouraging programs
to continue to have centers be modernized and updated and keep them vital. That’s where I’m hanging my hat on this one.
Bird: I believe every word you’re saying. I mean it’s the little guy that can use the extra traffic in there. Not that Fred Meyers would turn any of it down. You know they have the volume
it’s your Baskin Robbins, it’s your Bagels and it’s your Subways that could use the extra traffic. I’m sure this is not the first application we’re going to have like the Mayor said.
You can see the trends coming that the supermarket and for us consumers it’s pretty nice because when half a percent of your sales is out there in your gas, you can give that away free
and make a good mark up on your inside and you’re okay. Private service station guy he’s going to make it off his gas to. But as a consumer it’s pretty nice.
Durkin: You know it’s Interesting you mention that if you look at the Chevron today, there’s a sandwich operation inside. They have groceries all over the place. They have a drive up
window in the back of their Chevron. So, they’re offering and doing a lot more things and that’s competitive.
Bird: You’re right that’s very competitive. I think I’ve taken up enough of Larry’s time but I do want to compliment you on your presentation. It was very first class.
Corrie: Any other questions of Larry? Okay.
Durkin: Thank you.
Corrie: Thank you Larry. Okay, discussion Council?
McCandless: Mr. Mayor
Corrie: Mrs. McCandless
McCandless: I echo Keith’s compliment of the presentation. I thought it was certainly interesting and very good. I don’t however agree with the idea that the smaller businesses are going
to suffer if you don’t have that selling gas in the parking lot. If somebody goes to Fred Meyer and the parking lot is full all the time over there, right now, if somebody wants an ice
cream cone or a cup of coffee over at the coffee shop or a bagel. Certainly I’ve gone in there for a Subway or a bagel when I wasn’t even at Fred Meyers. I don’t think that’s valid and
I think the congestion, regardless of all the precautions that you have talked about. I think the congestion is too much. In spite of the good presentation you haven’t convinced me.
Bird: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I’d like to ask Chief Gordon. I believe we used his, I don’t recall if Chief Gordon was here last time but the congestion, Chief do you, you know, you’re much more expertise on
this than I am. Do you see problems with congestion? Traffic congestions in and out and all that. Do you see that with that location of that gas pumps there as having to create some
more congestion.
Gordon: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Bird. That area is congested right now. The cars that are there are going to still be there whether that gas kiosk is there or not. I don’t think it’s
going to add or subtract any of the congestion. Our main problem area is Locust Grove and Fairview. The cars that are going to be going to get gas here, I don’t think, they’re going
to be there anyway. I don’t think it’s going to create any. The cars, the numbers of vehicles are already there. I don’t think they’re going to entice anybody from Eagle to come up here
and get gas. The cars are going to be there regardless. That Chevron there’s a lot of traffic in and out of that because of the Chevron. That side of Fred Meyer parking lot is probably
one of the best sites to put something like this if you’re going to do it. Because right now, it’s usually open in that area but for the actual number count, I don’t think they’re going
to increase the numbers of cars in and out of there.
Bird: In your expert opinion then, knowing traffic much better than I do, the inside of the, the way it’s located the in and out and the inside traffic do you see it causing – That was
my concern was it causing congestion inside the parking lot with the gas kiosk.
Gordon: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Bird. I spend a lot of time at Fred Meyers, also a lot of money but we get gas at the Chevron station, then come in the back side of Fred Meyers and I park
on that side and we get bagels at the bagel shop. I don’t think that it’s going to interfere with any of those businesses any more than what they have right now. The actual, there is
no pedestrian traffic that I can ever
recall in that area. Everybody drives to where they want to go. I don’t have any actual numbers but I can tell you our main problem is Locust Grove and Fairview.
Bird: Yeah.
Gordon: Not down there by D&B and where the Chevron is.
Bird: Thank you very much Chief. I have no more Mayor.
Corrie: I have a question. You haven’t changed a thing the way it was presented to us the first time other than presentation. Why can’t you move that either to the west or center it?
Could you not get the consent of everybody by moving it say to the center rather than the area? Again, I am not convinced and it may come down to me and you haven’t shown me anything
that was presented the first time other than the traffic control.
Durkin: Let me tell you what was presented the very first time when this application was first made it was here. Planning and Zoning said we think it’s too close to the, There’s a lot
traffic for this drive through here, and it’s quick in and outs. We want you to move it down to this entry. That was our first application, their recommendation to you was to not approve
it here but to approve it here. Fred Meyer drew it and moved it down there. I think that there would be a compromise to move it away from this driveway. This is a result of the Planning
and Zoning’s two recommendations that it be moved here.
Bird: You wouldn’t have a heartache moving it just a little bit?
Durkin: I wouldn’t have a heartache moving it –
Bird: I’d feel a lot more comfortable because it would give us more clearance –
Durkin: You move it over to this parking row?
Bird: It would give us more clearance coming in and out and moving around inside the parking lot off that drive in.
Corrie: Yeah. Again I’m just saying that if it comes down to me and you haven’t changed anything but the traffic count, you have to convince me to change my mind if I was voting. But
if you move it over where you don’t have that congestion, it’s better. Still my personal opinion would be that if you move it behind the other it’s not going to make that much difference
because if you’re doing it for the people that are shopping there now, they’ll go either place. Now if you come in off the street and do that. You know I don’t have a hang up with kiosks
in the parking area but where you’ve got it now I do because it’s not any different than what was turned down by 3 others before. That’s why I say, there was 3 that turned it down and
1 that didn’t vote. So, if you move it over where it
has the less congestion coming in and you’re saying all the people that are going to Fred Meyers is going to use that I wouldn’t use it but I go to Fred Meyers all the time. But I’m
not going there to buy gas.
Durkin: Right.
Corrie: My interpretation would be if you move it over where you don’t have the congestion coming in there at least you’ve spread it out a little bit of coming in and going out and
for the people that’s in the shopping center already it wouldn’t make that much difference. But now you say that the people around you have to approve that, now did they approve this?
Would they have to approve the other?
Durkin: They’ve approved this and I’m certain that they would approve moving it over a full parking row that row to the west, having it move that distance.
Corrie: I can guarantee that we’re going to get a whole bunch of requests if this is approved and we’ve got to , we’re looking at individual sites. One right now is Albertson’s already
done it.
Durkin: Mr. Mayor, I’m disappointed that – we haven’t changed the site plan that you’re looking at but we have given you correct answers and data. There were questions at the Planning
and Zoning, at the Council why is this important, I don’t know it’s just important. Well, I’ve told you why it’s important. I’ve done hundreds of hours of research to give you the accurate
correct answers. So from a use standpoint it’s important to have it in front it’s important. But the Planning and Zoning said get it away from McDonald’s. That’s where it is. I’m certain
that Fred Meyer, A Best and the other tenants would approve shifting it west a parking row or so, getting it further away from that driveway. That would give Keith, alleviate some of
his concerns about the conflicts with Subway and I’m certain because I’ve talked to all of the people that that would not be a problem.
Corrie: Okay. Well, you know where I’m coming from.
Bird: Mr. Mayor, they’re not worrying about the shoppers that are already in Fred Meyers buying gas, that gas thing there is to draw new people into Fred Meyer. You know and it’s a good
marketing tool. Its becoming supermarkets are living off from it. One nice thing about it, the one thing I will say on this, that we have that we didn’t have at the Albertson’s that
we turned down, not only is this a larger parking lot but there is nothing out there that’s built, a convenience, even though they didn’t have a convenience store of such, supposedly.
They did have an island out there where they took their money and stuff. It’s a tough decision.
Durkin: Does Albertson’s parking lot, is that contiguous with a residential zone?
Corrie: Yes.
Bird: yeah.
Durkin: Is it contiguous to the west with residential zone?
Bird: IT was on the –
Corrie: It was on the west side on the – the residential was on the west side and also on the south side.
Durkin: I wouldn’t be here tonight if that’s what we were dealing with. This is a different situation.
Bird: We’re looking at different situations.
Corrie: Yeah and I’m just saying, okay. I think I’ve already made my point.
Durkin: For the record, when we built the building where TCBY is, there was a lot of testimony and a lot of discussion from the people that lived directly across Locust Grove. We took
a lot of steps to insure the headlights weren’t going to shine their way and a lot of different things. Albertson’s has to deal with that like everyone else does but this is a different
situation.
Corrie: Yeah, you don’t need to worry about Albertson’s (inaudible) –
Bird: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Yes, Mr. Bird.
Bird: I’d like to ask our staff if moving it, I mean I can probably buy it if they’ll move it over. Is that okay with you Shari, to move it to the west a little bit?
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council. The only thing about moving it to the west is they don’t know that anybody has had an opportunity to see that. I know that McDonald’s initially had a problem
because it was on the other side.
Bird: You mean close to them?
Stiles: Yeah.
Bird: But we’re only talking of moving it 50 feet probably. Would that be right Larry?
Durkin: Maybe a little bit more.
Bird: Would it be more than that? (inaudible)
(inaudible discussion amongst Council members)
Stiles: I wouldn’t have a problem with it provided that McDonald’s gave some kind of written confirmation that they didn’t have any issues with the change.
Bird: Do you have any problems, do you think McDonald’s would have any problems with that Larry?
Durkin: Just from a legal standpoint, the requirement is to get the land – they’re a tenant , they’re not an owner.
Bird: Oh, they are a tenant?
Durkin: They’re a tenant. They rent from Rod Hagen so the requirement would have to be from Rod Hagen because he’s the one that has the – or A Best, they’re the in the letter I gave
you.
Bird: Yes.
Durkin: But I have discussed it and I’m, so they’re not going to be surprised. I’m certain that they would be agreeable.
Bird: Do you have a scale – do you want to hit that and see where we’re actually moving it if we take out that other park, you’ve got an engineers scale on there.
Durkin: If we moved the canopy to this point right here, that would be 40 feet.
Bird: 40 feet?
Durkin: Yeah. That would allow this row to go back to where it is. There’s still 3 rows between the canopy and McDonald’s.
Bird: I definitely like that.
Durkin: That’s an engineers scale on a prop board, I would encourage the word approximately, no less than –
Corrie: You’d be a good lawyer too, you know that?
Durkin: I was just --- I don’t want to misrepresent it. It could be 42.
Corrie: Somewhere in that vicinity?
Durkin: Yeah.
Corrie: Okay. Council, any other questions that you had at this point?
Bird: Mr. Mayor if I may – Cherie McCandless, does moving that over, does that relieve some of your worries on the congestion and stuff after Chief Gordon? I mean he relaxed my mind
on the congestion a lot and that was my concern was the congestion.
McCandless: Well, it might make it a little better Keith. However I’m just not convinced of the need of it. We’ve got a service station very, very close to it. I don’t think people go
to Fred Meyer to buy gas anyway. There’s not going to be people if they have one of these things down at Wal-Mart, people aren’t going to go to Wal-Mart instead of Fred Meyer jut so
they can get gas.
Bird: No, They’re going to be there to buy gas and Fred Meyer hopes they’ll come shop there. The same thing Albertson’s puts it in for. You’ve got certain people that are going to go
to Fred Meyers regardless whether they got gas or not. Then you got other people that are questionable that if they can get their gas from Fred Meyer right there it’s a marketing tool.
McCandless: Sure it is.
Bird: But it’s free enterprise and you know after the, I mean the Chief solved my problem with congestion and then if they move it over that more than solves my concern.
McCandless: I wasn’t talking about congestion so much on Fairview as I was inside the parking lot.
Bird: By moving it over we can get rid of that congestion inside because we have a full 40 feet inside there in that lane if they move it over.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council members)
Durkin: That would be about 61 feet away from that driveway.
Bird: We could even make it (inaudible)
(inaudible discussion amongst Council members)
Corrie: They can go either way to get gas, go north or go south through there right?
Bird: Yes.
Corrie: You’ve got more room in there. They’re not using the parking that much in front of it so hopefully even if you took that out, you’ve still got plenty of parking, I mean if
you had to do that.
Bird: The way I look at it is if you move it back 40 feet to the west, when you come in you’ve got 40 feet there to play with where 2 cars can get in and out of that thing and into the
pumps and stuff. I just think it solves a big traffic jam up there by moving it over and it relieves my. I’m like Cherie, at Fred Meyer I don’t see why we need a gas station there but
if Fred Meyer thinks they do, that’s free enterprise.
Durkin: Well, they’re in good company with the list on that second page of that pop up article I gave you that lists all of the different companies that are doing this.
Bird: I didn’t see them on there. Were they? Were they listed as Kroger?
Durkin: Yeah.
Corrie: I travel a lot and it’s the coming thing. It’s practically everywhere. We know that. I’m not particularly against it, I’m just wanting to have the best safety place for it,
cars, people, pedestrians and then also have the kiosk for Fred Meyers because we know the others are going to be asking for it. There’s going to be the same criteria as far as I’m concerned
as I’m making for you. It’s a safety thing mainly here and I believe that if you move that over you’ve got a better chance of having safer kiosk and you’re still serving the same purpose
that Fred Meyer and the people want around there by moving it. So, that’s where I’m coming from.
Durkin: I think that the record shows that it doesn’t have any impact on any adjoining or nearby residential areas, I think that’s –
Corrie: But it might have in the safety factor for cars coming in and I know how people drive but so do you.
Smith: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Yes.
Smith: May I ask a question?
Corrie: Yes. You certainly can.
Smith: Mr. Durkin, who approves the installation of underground fuel tanks in this situation?
Durkin: I know the answer to that. There is, I want to say EPA –
(inaudible discussion amongst Council members)
Durkin: -- is it, either EPA or Department of Water Quality or –
Smith: IS it DEQ?
(inaudible discussion amongst Council members)
Durkin: DEQ, that’s it.
Smith: Are they the ones involved in inspection and approval of the installation? Do they approve the plans?
Durkin: They approve the plans.
Smith: Okay. Thank you.
Bird: DEQ is (inaudible)
Corrie: Okay.
Bird: I have no further questions finally.
McCandless: (inaudible)
Corrie: Okay. I think you pretty well know where I’m coming from so and I can’t make a motion but I’ll certainly support whatever happens to come out.
Bird: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would make a motion, we’ll see if we get a second or not. I was one of the most vocal against it the time before but I think that it has been, my concerns has basically been
taken care of if they will move it and my motion will show that this conditional use permit – I move that we approve this Conditional Use Permit for a gasoline facility for Fred Meyers
gasoline facility by the Dakota Company at 1850 east Fairview with the condition that it moves to the west at least 40 feet and for the attorney to draw up, I beg your pardon? At least
40 feet. And for the attorney to draw up the proper papers.
Corrie: Okay. You heard the motion as made by Mr. Bird. IS there a second? Okay. The motion then dies for lack of second. Is there another motion going to be made?
De Weerd: This is interesting.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council members)
Bird: Okay.
Corrie: Correct me if I’m wrong Mr. Attorney but this can be tabled until the next meeting can it not?
Nichols: Yes Mr. Mayor it can.
Bird: At the same token we’d have to go through this whole thing again to be fair to the Councilman that is missing.
Corrie: I agree.
Bird: Or he could review the minutes. I would have no problem with tabling but in the same token this is kind of like that Touchmark thing it’s been kicked around for a year.
McCandless: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mrs. McCandless.
McCandless: I’m sitting here, everybody’s looking at me (inaudible) I would make a motion that we continue this until the 15th or whatever day it is.
Corrie: The 15th.
McCandless: It would give me chance to think about it and give Mr. Anderson a chance to –
Bird: Look at it. Okay.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council members)
Bird: Okay. I will – and that is on the condition that Mr. Anderson gets the minutes then? I would second that then.
Corrie: Okay. Motion’s been made and seconded to table this until the 15th of May to have Mr. Anderson read the minutes. Any further discussion? I have one. Would you be available
Larry in case he has some questions that come up, will you be able to be here to answer?
Durkin: On the 15th? I certainly will.
Corrie: Okay. That gives him a chance to not only read it but if he has to listen or he wants to make any changes. Otherwise we’re at a stalemate as you can see and we’re not going
to get anything done tonight.
Durkin: I just want you to know that a man with better eyes and more experience with a ruler measured and that line that I drew is 36 feet, I’m happy with the 40 feet.
Bird: It died anyway Larry.
Corrie: Well, it may come back up again –
Bird: Yeah.
Corrie: Any further discussion? All those in favor of the motion say aye. Any Abstains?
McCandless: Yes I do.
Corrie: Okay. Two ayes and we still have (inaudible) it passes for the 15th. Let me check. You’ll be up quicker, higher than you are tonight.
Item 14. Request for City Water Service for Valley Life Community Church and Westborough Subdivision at North Locust Grove Road and Chinden Boulevard by Jim Jewett:
Corrie: Okay. Item No. 14 –
De Weerd: If you would talk to you talk to McDonald’s –
Corrie: I would suggest that yeah that you might want to be talking with McDonald’s. Yeah, thank you Tammy. Okay No. 14 is request for city water service for Valley Life Community
Church and Westborough subdivision at north Locust Grove Road and Chinden Boulevard with Jim Jewett. Staff, Gary are you on this one or staff whoever?
Smith: Mr. Mayor, Council members. This project is at the southwest corner of Locust Grove and Chinden Boulevard. It’s a water line that exists approximately one half mile north of McMillan
at the northwest corner of Viennawoods subdivision.
Corrie: Okay.
Bird: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: What’s your recommendation Gary? Put it out there and what?
Smith: Well, Councilman Bird, it’s really a policy decision from the Council as to what you want to do. We do not have the capacity for the water to serve this project. Our well, our
closest well is at Summerfield subdivision, which is at Ustick and Locust Grove. I didn’t run a hydraulic model on it but my guess is that well is almost 2 miles away from this site.
I would be surprised and maybe I should just withhold statement until a hydraulic model was run of the subdivision demand and see if that line had capabilities with the well out there
to provide the fire flow necessary for this subdivision.
Bird: But you’ve got a pretty good idea that it don’t?
Smith: Well, typically we’re locating our wells on a one mile grid in order to provide a service of approximately a thousand residences per well.
Bird: What’s our other alternative, like we did at the Catholic Church?
Smith: Well, it’s not going to hold up. What we did at the Catholic Church, there’s no written agreement there. United Water has claimed that and they told us face to face that that’s
where it’s going to stay.
Corrie: Gary, I have a question on this Westborough subdivision. This is part of the other site too isn’t it?
Smith: What –
Corrie: Because they’re making application to Ada County Planning people –
Smith: Yes.
Corrie: -- that United Water is going to do the private sewer and the water at the same time so no matter what we do here, it’s not going to make any difference to what their application
is to the county. We don’t know what the county’s going to do yet and if we go ahead and say okay, we’re going to give you water, it doesn’t guarantee us water on the other side, correct?
Smith: Doesn’t guarantee us water on what?
Corrie: Getting the other side of the Westborough subdivision. They’ve already made their application and said that they’re getting the water from United Water.
Nichols: Mr. Mayor. A point of clarification. Mr. Jewett has applied for subdivision approval from Ada County and in that application, at least in my initial review of it, it would
either have Meridian water or United Water for the water side but it has a
private sewer district for the sewer. My recommendation would be that you not supply water to something that you need to oppose on the basis that it’s in your area of impact and it’s
asking that there be urban densities at the edge of the area of impact. It is not contiguous and it is not annexable at this time. The sewer district issue, the sewer is not proposed
to be provided by United Water, it’s proposed by Quality Water Systems which is a Montana corporation. It is not sewer provided by United Water. The Council will be asked to make a recommendation
to the county with regard to that subdivision and I expect that staff will be preparing a report to submit to the Council on not only Westborough but the Lee Center subdivision that’s
proposed in the south part of the area of impact. The Lee Center subdivision also proposes United Water plus Quality Water Systems and they have the same engineer on both projects. It
would be very difficult to oppose the Westborough subdivision if that’s what you choose to do if you have granted a will serve request for water.
Corrie: Well stated. I wish I had said it –
Bird: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Bird: I agree with our attorney over here. He’s a very smart man. You know this independent sewer districts, you know we thought we had the water thing out at the Catholic
Church but evidently the only ones that had the agreement was Meridian. We got totaled where we get, they weren’t leaving. We put a lot of money in our sewer plant to keep it up and
to expand it. We went to a lot of money with our surveys and I realize we probably are a little bit behind on getting our sewer lines out. In the same token we have went to a lot of
money, our citizens have paid a lot of money, developers and stuff. I am absolutely against any kind of sewer or water getting into our impact area period. Water and sewer, what happens
out there is like we’re going to inherit one of these days a sewer system at Kentucky Ridge that we probably don’t want to inherit. We’re going to have to inherit it when we become
in. I’m like the attorney, anything that we can do, not that I want to stop our progress of getting our sewer lines out and getting our water lines out and neither does the staff. But
they’ve got to realize we’ve got to do it and we’ve kept the wastewater treatment plant up and we’re not, you know it’s staying ahead and everything and we spent lots of dollars to do
that, to do our impact area. I don’t know, I’m really against anybody coming in here and wanting to put in a sewer district. The Mayor is 100 percent right, Gary and him and I were told
face right blank that United Water would not object to putting sewer systems in our deals all alone the water we know that. I would make a motion that we turn down this request for city
water services to Valley Life Community Church and Westborough subdivision.
De Weerd: Second
Corrie: Motion’s been made and second to deny the request for water service on Valley Life Community Church and Westboruogh subdivision. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those
in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT
Item 15. License Agreement with Nampa Meridian Irrigation District for the Davis Drain:
Corrie: Item No. 15 license agreement with Nampa Meridian Irrigation District for Davis Drain. Gary is that yours or is that yours Bill?
Nichols: Mr. Mayor this is actually Mr. Kuntz’s. This was a license agreement. We can’t explain why it didn’t get to you before but it had to do with the tiling of the Davis Drain. I
can’t remember which park it was in. Was it Tulley Park, Gary?
Smith: Chateau Park.
Nichols: Okay. The work has been done. It’s long been buried and done and this was essentially the same agreement as what had been agreed to by staff back in 1999 except that it’s now
changed to say that it has been done as opposed to will be done.
Corrie: Okay. Does anybody have any questions on what was did?
Bird: No.
Corrie: Okay. I’ll entertain a motion on the request for a license agreement to be signed by the Mayor and attested by the City Clerk.
De Weerd: So moved.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Any further discussion? Okay. All those in favor say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT
Corrie: Okay.
Bird: Good time. Mr. Mayor if you don’t have anything can I ask a question?
Corrie: Sure.
Bird: The 8th , while all you guys are here, we’re having that appreciation for all our committees so if you could help Tammy and the Mayor out, if we miss anybody please get to them
on these committees. Tammy is getting hold of everybody that she can but any of you department heads that have a committee or we missed one let us know. We want to show our appreciation
for all the free time and all the stuff they put in to the city And that includes your building committee, Chief, probably in the committee but the people that served on that if you
would invite them next Tuesday night –
De Weerd: (inaudible) Kenny have a –
Bird: And Kenny had a building committee. Give me time to get from one to the other. You’re worse than my wife.
De Weerd: Well, I have the police one. June gave me all the phone numbers.
Bird: Okay. Kenny you had a building committee didn’t you? Would you get Tammy the list so that she can get a hold of them, who was on your building committee.
Bowers: That would be just about the whole department.
Bird: Well that’s fine.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council members)
Bird: They did it on their own time. They didn’t get paid for it. Correll did a lot of work and didn’t get paid for it.
McCandless: Keith, I’ve already issued an invitation to the COP units.
Bird: Okay.
De Weerd: Okay, so you’ve contacted all them?
McCandless: I’ve contacted all of them yes.
De Weerd: Okay.
Bird: Because Tammy needs to know.
De Weerd: Do you want to call the police station design committee? That would be very helpful.
Bird: That’s the one we just talked about.
McCandless: Yeah, I can do that.
Bird: She’s taking care of it for you Chief.
De Weerd: No, I would call them. I just have 10 million other people to call.
McCandless: That’s all right, I'll –
Bird: Is it 6:00 Mayor that we’re doing that? 6:00 Tuesday.
McCandless: You might want to give me the phone numbers though because I’m not sure I still have them.
De Weerd: I will copy this for you.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council members)
Corrie: Tell him there’s no place for me to sign on that.
McCandless: There’s no place for him to sign.
Bird: What’s that?
De Weerd: So, Cherie you did the Citizens on Patrol?
McCandless: Yes, I did.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council members)
De Weerd: Now. This starts at 6 and it ends at 6:30?
Bird: No. We can start our workshop at 7:00 I think.
De Weerd: Oh, okay.
Bird: Well, I had my workshop sheet here and I had something for you on it.
De Weerd: Can you make sure the – well I’m calling all of the downtown committee so I’ll tell them that doesn’t start until 7:00.
Bird: Well, then tell them to be here.
Berg: Our ordinance says 6:30.
Bird: Okay well, we’ll start at 6:30 and we’ll come in and –
Corrie: We’ll start it and delay it for 30 minutes. They plan on being here (inaudible)
Bird: 5:30 or 6:00?
Corrie: Yeah, I think it was 5:30.
Bird: Okay it’s 5:30.
De Weerd: My God, come on you told me 6:00.
Corrie: Okay.
Bird: What have you been telling your people?
De Weerd: 6:00
Bird: That’s good, we don’t have to run them through it, we’ll just run – No, 6:00 will be fine.
Corrie: 6:00 is fine. We can –
Bird: We’ll be all right.
De Weerd: God.
Bird: On our planning session Mayor, on the 8th, we’ve got the Urban Renewal area review and Cherry Lane Golf Course is on there, parks comp plan, assessor’s office, a discussion of
copier expert comm proposal for services and then we’ve got the discussion for flood zone ordinance.
De Weerd: And that will be just some small introductory –
Bird: And do you have anything you want to add? This is just a draft I had Will give me.
Corrie: I didn’t hear what they were, it’s fine.
Bird: Have you got anything? I think we’ve got enough items on there.
Corrie: Oh, yeah, okay.
Bird: Just give that –
De Weerd: (inaudible) overview of discussion for the night?
Bird: No. Let’s just –
De Weerd: That’s between the Mayor and Ron.
Bird: That’s between the Mayor and Ron. (inaudible)
De Weerd: The presentation for the 9th.
Corrie: Oh, yeah.
De Weerd: Touch base on the –
Corrie: Ron’s going to do the PowerPoint and we have other –
Bird: Okay. That’s all I had Mayor.
Corrie: Okay. Anybody have anything else? I’ll entertain a motion to –
Bird: Okay. (inaudible)
De Weerd: Hey, Mr. Mayor. Can we get an idea where we’re at with the police station?
Bird: We’ve got to get the financing first.
Corrie: We’re going to. I’m going to call Mr. May and get the money ready for us and then I guess –
Bird: We go from there.
Corrie: -- Bill, we’re about what, a week away? (inaudible)
Nichols: Mayor, Members of the Council. The appeal time is 42 days from the date the judge signed the order and I think that was the – she didn’t sign until the 14th?
Bird: No. What day was it? What day did we go there? Will,
McCandless: The 5th.
Nichols: April 5 I think was the day of the hearing and I think she signed – I thought the stuff was going to be there to her to sign the next day. It’s 42 days after that that it’s
not an appealable order any more. The 14-day period was anybody that would ask for a new trial or a new hearing or a reconsideration and that’s long past.
Corrie: Okay.
Bird: (inaudible)
Nichols: It’s not going to happen.
Corrie: I’ll get a hold of Mr. May tomorrow and then get the paperwork all ready.
Bird: We get in there and start doing some argument on the interest.
Nichols: Well, I think that what you want to do, as I understand it there needs to be a meeting and then –
Unidentified Speaker: With who?
Nichols: -- with by the way from Wells Fargo and beat up on them or excuse me negotiate with them as to what the interest rates going to be.
Corrie: Okay. You let me know when it’s available –
Bird: You just call Bud and tell him to be there.
Corrie: Then you’ll be there so you can help me –
Bird: I’ll help you all I can.
Corrie: Okay.
Bird: I got some –
De Weerd: Will’s shaking his head.
(inaudible discussion amongst Council members)
Corrie: So he wants the court to say everything is (inaudible) before he does it.
Bird: Well, then Mayor was right. Let’s wait until (inaudible)
Nichols: That doesn’t mean you can’t get everything lined up ahead of time. Try to find out where things are at. Find out what their proposed interest rate is and all that stuff and
try to have something you can go slam bang and it’s done when the 43rd day comes.
Bird: Have something on the 43rd day the Mayor can sign and you can attest, Will.
Corrie: Okay. (inaudible) What I want to do in detail.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Yes.
De Weerd: I move that we adjourn.
Bird: I second.
Corrie: Motion’s made and second. All in favor say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:50 PM
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
APPROVED:
ROBERT D. CORRIE, MAYOR
WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., CITY CLERK