HomeMy WebLinkAbout1999 05-18MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING MAY 18, 1999
The regular meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:30 p.m. on
May 18, 1999 by Mayor Corrie.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Ron Anderson, Keith Bird, Glenn Bentley, Charlie Rountree.
OTHERS PRESENT: Mayor Bob Corrie, Will Berg, Bill Gigray, Bill Gordon, Gary Smith,
Kenny Bowers, Tom Kuntz, Shari Stiles.
Corrie: I'll open the Meridian City Council May the 18t", 1999 at 7:30. City Clerk, roll
call please. Thank you. I want to welcome you here tonight. Also a special welcome to
Troop 152 from here in Meridian. I understand that I am going to be sending you some
things tomorrow so that will be in the mail to you. Also glad to see our City Attorney
back from his stay in the hospital. Welcome back Bill. Gentleman, we have on the
consent agenda item A and B. I would recommend that we have item B taken off the
consent agenda and put on the consent agenda in June 1 st meeting. We've got the
wrong information in your packet and we had some questions from one of the Council a
couple of Councilmen, so I would recommend that you do that.
Bentley: Mr. Mayor I move we withdraw item B, the Joint Powers Agreement for
Automotive Inspection Program to our June 1 st meeting.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Okay, motion is made that we pull item B off the consent agenda until the June
1 st meeting of 1999. Any further discussion?
Rountree: Mr. Turner and Mr. Bowman were here earlier today.
Corrie: I explained the situation to them, yes.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor I would move we approve the consent agenda.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Okay, we have a motion on the floor to —
Rountree: Excuse me.
Corrie: To withdraw — all those in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: All right Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor I move we approve the consent agenda.
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 2
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion made and second to approve the consent agenda item A. Any further
discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
1. TABLED 2/16/99: ORDINANCE #814 — 1999 MOTOR VEHICLE EMISSIONS
CONTROL:
Corrie: I would ask that the Council consider moving that to the June 1 st meeting as
well. We need to get that ordinance put into City form by our attorney.
Bird: Mr. Mayor I move that we table item number one the 1999 Motor Vehicle
Emissions Control to June 1St meeting.
Bentley: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bird second by Mr. Bentley to table item number one until
the June 1St 1999 meeting. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of
the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
2. TABLED 4/20/99: RESOLUTION # - PARKS AND RECREATION
COMMISSION REAPPOINTMENT:
Corrie: Mr. Clerk, what would that resolution number be?
Berg: Mr. Mayor, excuse me, I did not have that list. I did get the ordinance list, so
don't have a resolution numbers. It will be in the 200 range and I'll make sure it
accommodates the following resolution.
Corrie: Okay.
Anderson: Mr. Mayor I would make a motion then that we approve the resolution with
the unknown number for Parks and Recreation Commission reappointment with the City
Clerk to find the proper resolution number for us.
Bentley: Second.
Corrie: Motion is made and second to approve the resolution of Parks and Recreation
Commission reappointments. Any further discussion?
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 3
Rountree: Mr. Mayor, we did have in our packet a letter from Western Ada Recreation
District indicating their desire to change the representative under the previous
ordinance. I don't know that that was done. We now have a new ordinance. We have
the same representative that was representing Western Ada Recreation shown on the
new resolution, and does that individual sitting in that capacity represent the public at
large at this point, or Western Ada Recreation District? How are we going to handle the
desires of the Recreation District?
Bentley: Upon that request it was so noted that even under the old ordinance, it
required that they could replace the person they wanted on there if there was a
vacancy. There was no vacancy. There current representative had not stepped down.
The term had not expired, so therefore being no vacancy, they had no authority to
replace.
Corrie: A little more background on that too. They made a motion to change her out of
it and the motion died for a lack of second. So consequently there was no vote to
replace her from the WARD Board of Directors, so it will be the same and she hasn't
resigned. She would still be there until we get a letter from their board. I talked to two
others on the board and they didn't make that request official. That was just the
president's letter. Mr. Gigray, I believe you talked to them too on this and they need to
replace somebody on that board. They have to have a vote from their Board of
Directors and they didn't have it according to ours.
Rountree: Well according to the letter that I have is signed by the Western Ada
Recreation District President and there's only three people that make up that board.
Corrie: That's right and only one voted.
Rountree: And only one voted, so there are only two people present at this meeting.
Corrie: There were three people present, one did not vote, so there was a vote for and
a vote against and — actually it died for a lack of second. But that's their problem, not
ours.
Rountree: Well I recognize the difficulty that's going on there, but my question really is,
is there an understanding on the part of that representative that their representing the
citizenry at large or Western Ada Recreation?
Corrie: No, Western Ada Rec. They are still the Western Ada Rec. representative at
this point.
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 4
Bentley: Under the guidelines of the new ordinance, there isn't any. They all are
citizens at large.
Rountree: And that's why I asked the question, is the understanding on the part of this
individual that they are a citizen at large or a representative of Western Ada
Recreation? And if they're representing themselves as Western Ada Recreation, it
shouldn't be.
Bentley: No, they are not representing — all the individuals there now understand and
Tom can verify this that it is now citizens at large. There is no entities involved, and that
was by desire with them drawing up the ordinance change.
Rountree: Thank you Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Rountree: No problem.
Corrie: I didn't understand what the question was I guess. Any further discussion?
Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: 3 AYES, 1 NAY.
3. TABLED 5/4/99: DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT OF 10.02 FOR PROPOSED YUKON
SUBDIVISION BY JAMES AND KAREN HOLLISTER -- EAST SIDE OF LOCUST
GROVE ROAD, BETWEEN USTICK AND MCMILLAN ROAD JUST NORTH OF
SUMMERFIELD SUB:
Corrie: I understand that we do have the development agreement signed today. Is that
right Mr. Gigray?
Gigray: Mr. Mayor, members of the Council, the Clerk's office I believe has a signed
development agreement. There's a portion of that that is x'd through by the Hollisters
and there's a small bit of language added that's in writing. I have reviewed that. Since
this was a proposed annexation, which of course is contingent that makes contingent
the school district property and because this particular applicant did not have a specific
development in mind other than a road, and going back through the record I didn't see
where there was a time limit requirement on when the development would occur which
is usually in our standard form. They had x'd that part out. I think that's consistent with
the record and then the only other thing that they had written in was a certificate of
occupancy would not include and by interpretation I would advise city staff that certainly
a certificate of occupancy would not be required for the existing residence on the
property, and I believe they'd written that on there. Other than that, I believe that it's as
presented.
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 5
Corrie: Any other discussion? Mr. Clerk you do have that signed one then; is that
correct?
Berg: Mr. Mayor, members of the Council, yes I do.
Corrie: Any other questions?
Rountree: Mr. Mayor I move that we approve the development agreement with the
changes noted on the signed version of the development agreement from the Hollisters.
Bentley: Second.
Corrie: Motion made and second that we approve the development agreement with the
changes as noted. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the
motion say aye.
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4. TABLED 5/4/99: ORDINANCE #825 - ANNEXATION AND ZONING OF 10.02 ACRES
BY JAMES AND KAREN HOLLISTER:
Corrie: Mr. Clerk, would you read Ordinance and assign it a number please and read it
by title only.
Berg: Yes, thank you Mr. Mayor. (ORDINANCE #825 WAS READ BY TITLE ONLY).
Corrie: Is there anyone from the audience who would like to have Ordinance #825 read
in its entirety? Hearing none, Council I will entertain a motion for Ordinance #825.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor, I move that we approve Ordinance #825 with suspension of
rules.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion is made by Mr. Rountree second by Mr. Bird to approve Ordinance #825
with suspension of rules.
ROLL CALL VOTE: ANDERSON, YEA. BENTLEY, YEA. ROUNTREE, YEA. BIRD,
YEA.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL YEAS.
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 6
5. TABLED 5/4/99: DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT OF 40.55 ACRES BY MERIDIAN
SCHOOL DISTRICT NO. 2 — EAST SIDE OF LOCUST GROVE ROAD, BETWEEN
USTICK AND MCMILLAN ROAD JUST NORTH OF SUMMERFIELD SUB:
Corrie: Mr. Clerk, do we have the signed agreement on that one?
Berg: Mr. Mayor, I'm just double checking. I do have the signed copy.
Corrie: Thank you. Any further discussion on item number five development
agreement? Hearing none, I'll entertain a motion on item five.
Bentley: Mr. Mayor I move we approve the development agreement of 40.55 acres by
the Meridian School District No. 2.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bentley second by Mr. Bird to approve item number five the
development agreement by the Meridian School District No. 2. Any further discussion?
ROLL CALL VOTE: ANDERSON, YEA. BENTLEY, YEA. ROUNTREE, YEA. BIRD,
YEA.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL YEAS.
6. TABLED 5/4/99: ORDINANCE #826 - ANNEXATION AND ZONING OF 40.55 ACRES
BY MERIDIAN JOINT SCHOOL DISTRICT NO. 2:
Corrie: Mr. Clerk, please read the Ordinance #826 by title only.
Berg: Thank you Mr. Mayor. (ORDINANCE #826 WAS READ BY TITLE ONLY)
Corrie: Is there anyone from the audience who would like to have Ordinance #826 read
in its entirety? Hearing none, I'll entertain a motion on Ordinance #826.
Bird: Mr. Mayor I move that we pass Ordinance #826 annex and zoning of 40.55 acres
by the Meridian School District No. 2 with suspension of rules.
Anderson: Second.
Corrie: Motion is made by Mr. Bird second by Mr. Anderson to approve Ordinance #826
annexation and zoning with the Meridian Joint School District No. 2. Any further
discussion?
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 7
ROLL CALL VOTE: ANDERSON, YEA. BENTLEY, YEA. ROUNTREE, YEA. BIRD,
YEA.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL YEAS.
Corrie: Mr. Clerk, if you will publish the Ordinance #825 first and then Ordinance #826
second and then would you do a cover letter to the State Tax Commission of the
sequential order that they have to do.
Berg: Yes, Mr. Mayor, I will.
7. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR REZONE OF 9.838 ACRES FROM R-8 WITH
CONDITIONS FOR TOWNHOUSES TO R-8 WITHOUT CONDITIONS FOR
PROPOSED TREMONT PLACE SUBDIVISION BY LUNA VISTA, INC.—BROADWAY
& 8T" STREET (725 W. 8T"):
Corrie: At this time I will open the public hearing and staff have you got any issues or
want to address any of the recommendations first on this?
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, you have our comments. It's a little misleading how
that's written. They're asking for an R-8 with conditions. This is previously rezoned by
Loren Saunders, and the conditions that were put on it was that it had to be developed
as a townhouse development as a planned development and that's the conditions
they're asking to be changed. Of course they'll have to meet all conditions of the R-8
zone. Also they are asking for a change in the conditions that they not be required to
meet the 1300 square foot minimum and that they be allowed to meet the mix of
housing sizes that's allowed in the ordinance. The only somewhat outstanding issue
that we've had a question on the is the emergency turnaround at the north end of 8th
Street there. If they're going to be required to have an emergency turnaround as part of
those lots, they may be non buildable and I'm not sure that the fire department has
signed off on the proposal they've shown on this plat. As long as they'll meet all the fire
department's requirements for that, I really didn't have any other issues. I don't know if
Gary —
Smith: I don't have a comment on the rezone Mr. Mayor and Council. I do have a
comment when the preliminary plat comes up.
Gigray: Mr. Mayor, members of the Council, this would be a point of information and I
would pose this as a matter of procedure and maybe give an opportunity for staff and
the applicant and then if anyone else is here to testify about this. In preparation for this
City Council meeting and reviewing the recommendations to the City Council that are
submitted by the Planning and Zoning Commission, I noted that there was a reference
in here and I'll refer to section 1.1 where it says the original conditions of rezone request
by Loren Saunders included requirements of that and then there's a litany of things
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 8
there. There were some other indications in this recommendation that this area had
been rezoned R-8 before, and the proposal here is a zone change. It's being treated as
a zone change, but it appeared to me that the zone change application had more to do
with conditions than changing an R-8 zone, because it's already an R-8 zone. In order
for me if the Council would choose to grant portions of this application, I am concerned
that I may have to or I would have to prepare possibly an ordinance that would amend
some previous ordinance that had been enacted by the City Council that would provide
for the present zoning of this property as R-8. In order to try to speed this along and
allow an opportunity for debate in the public hearing on this, I ask the Clerk's office to
see if we could identify what that previous ordinance was. I don't know if this is the
correct one, but I've had provided to me a file and a copy of Ordinance #765, which
appears to be an ordinance amending and changing the zoning of certain real property
described there from an R-4 to an R-8 and the file that was provided to me indicated
that the site plan that was part of that file seemed to match the site plan for this proposal
that was in the packet that I received. Then I looked at the real property description in
the ordinance and it describes a parcel that's 9.42 acres and this application when I look
at it appeared to have a parcel that was 9.83 acres and comparing the two legal
descriptions, they didn't exactly match which could pose some logistical problems if I
ever had to draft an ordinance amending the previous ordinance, and I don't know
whether or not a development agreement was ever prepared before. I don't know that
there is one that exists. I don't have one in the file. So these are just logistical issues
that I would need some direction from the Council at some point, and I think we need a
record to address in order to effect any kind of granting of this application. So I guess
you would just consider this as legal input at this point and go from there. And you can
take judicial notice of your own records of previous actions.
Corrie: All right, this is a public hearing, is the representative from Tremont Place
Subdivision here this evening? Come up please and if you would address the issues of
the recommendations first if you have any problems with any of the recommendations to
the City Council.
Unger: Mr. Mayor and Council members, my name is Bob Unger and I'm with Pinnacle
Engineers and we represent Luna Vista who is the developer of this project. Our
address is 870 N. Linder Road, Suite B, Meridian, Idaho. We have reviewed the
conditions of approval as recommended by the Planning and Zoning Commission, and
we do concur and agree to comply with those conditions. I don't know if you want me to
go ahead and review the subdivision at this point or just the request for the rezone.
Gigray: Mr. Mayor and members of the Council, I think you had just opened the public
hearing on the rezone.
Corrie: Rezone right.
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 9
Unger: Okay. Actually Mr. Gigray is correct. The acreage that was originally in the
proposal for the Saunders when the rezone took place requiring the townhouses, that
was an incorrect acreage. We found the mistake in the boundary of this property when
we did our survey on the property and that's why our application reflects a higher
acreage than the original Saunders proposal. Our client wishes to develop the property
as single family residential development instead of the townhouses. We were advised
by staff the only way to remove the condition for the townhouses was to reapply for a
modification of the original zone change to remove that requirement for the townhouses
and as such that's what we have requested in our application and applied for and that's
what we're asking for this evening.
Corrie: Okay, any question from Council?
Gigray: Mr. Mayor, members of the Council, I'm sorry to interject here, but I would
appreciate it if a member of the Council or if the Mayor could ask Mr. Unger if a legal
description could be prepared that would cover the difference between the 9.42 acres
that we have in ordinance #765 and the proposal here for 9.83 acres. My concern is
that this gets a little complex because we may have some property that was not
rezoned in 765. 1 don't know what zone it is, but it means I'll have to have sections in
this ordinance that will refer — I think it meets the notice in the public hearings because
the whole request was for the 9.38 so we're okay there, but in order for me to prepare
an ordinance that is going to accomplish all of this, I would need a description that
would denote the difference and then we'll have to locate what the zone was in that
small parcel so that we change that, so that this all comes through this time and we get
this straightened out.
Corrie: I guess consider it asked then Bob.
Unger: Mr. Mayor and Council, we would not have a problem at all. Our surveying staff
identified the problem and it would be very easy for them to identify the discrepancy of
the .41 acres so we certainly could provide not only a — we've already provided a meets
and bounds legal description for the 9.83 and we can provide a meets and bounds legal
description of the .41.
Corrie: Okay.
Gigray: Thank you Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Thank you. Anyone else from the audience who would like to issue testimony
on this request for rezone? Hearing none, I'll entertain a motion to close the public
hearing.
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 10
Gigray: Mr. Mayor, point of procedure. The Mayor might ask the audience that no one
is here to protest or otherwise but that if anyone would object that they ought to lodge
those objections at this time to allow Mr. Unger and the developer to augment this
record in this to provide this description. I think it's all within what's been advertised and
in the public hearing and so on and so forth. It will just be additional information that's
going to be provided and I would imagine when you close the public hearing that would
be with the provision that they could augment the record with that legal description.
This is all very just technical, but I think you ought to give the audience here the
opportunity if somebody objects to that, that they lodge that objection now. Otherwise
we could then proceed and they would have had their opportunity to object.
Corrie: Okay, is there anyone here that objects to that? Hearing none, no objections
then I will entertain a motion.
Anderson: Mr. Mayor I move that we close the public hearing.
Rountree: Second.
Corrie: Motion made and second that we close the public hearing. Further discussion?
All those in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: Questions from Council, discussion?
Rountree: Mr. Mayor for a point of discussion, I tend to agree with the
recommendations that were made by staff and Planning and Zoning when they heard
this, that some of the conditions be modified, but not be eliminated.
Corrie: Okay, any further comments from Council? Hearing none, I'll entertain a motion
on the request for rezone.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor I move that we have the City Attorney prepare Findings of Fact
and Conclusions of Law along with the Decision of Order that reflects the
recommendations of staff and Planning and Zoning Commission.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion is made and second that we have the attorney draw up the Findings of
Fact and Conclusions of Law and Order of the Recommendation. Any further
discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 11
8. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR PRELIMINARY PLAT FOR TREMONT PLACE
SUBDIVISION (36 SINGLE FAMILY BUILDING LOTS ON 9.838 ACRES) BY LUNA
VISTA, INC.—BROADWAY & 8T" STREET (725 W. 8T"):
Corrie: Again staff your comments and recommendations to the Council. Any specific
areas that you would like to cover on that?
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, I covered my comments earlier. Gary does have some
comments regarding the sewer.
Smith: Mr. Mayor and Council members, the sewering of this parcel of ground is a little
bit on the difficult side because of the elevation of this ground as compared to the
elevation of the existing sewer system. The dilemma of whether to have less than
minimum grade gravity sewers or a lift station has not been totally resolved yet with the
applicant's engineer. Bruce Freckleton and I have met with Mr. John Carpenter from
Pinnacle Engineering and we've discussed the issue. As of today, we haven't heard
back but it is still an issue that needs to be resolved between Public Works Department
and the applicant's engineer. So with that said, any action on your part tonight should
take that into account as a matter that's unresolved. I would suggest — it's not an
unresolvable problem. It's just a choice that needs to be made.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor question for Gary. Elaborate a bit on the choices and pros and
cons as it reflects on the City and/or the applicant.
Smith: There are two schools of thought. One is that a sewer line at less than
minimum grade or even an 8 inch sewer line at minimum grade that serves a small
number of homes is going to require a certain amount of maintenance in terms of
flushing. Because there isn't enough sewage in the line, solids settle out and cause
problems, so periodically that line has to be cleaned. You have to weigh the expense of
cleaning that line more often perhaps if it's less than minimum slope with the expense of
operating and maintaining a lift station. An old mentor of mine told me that he would
rather see sewer lines installed flat than install lift stations. And I think there's some
validity to that, however, DEQ takes a rather objectionable look at that type of thing. In
my discussions with our Wastewater Superintendent, our Public Works Superintendent,
it's his feeling that he would rather deal with a substandard slope on a gravity sewer line
than he would a lift station and simply because a lift station is a daily maintenance
responsibility. Cleaning a gravity line would not be daily. The other concern of this
subdivision is that the sewer line serving this subdivision passes through some
undeveloped property to the west. We would expect that the property to the west as it
develops would also connect to this sewer line. That's a positive because it increases
the amount of flow in the line and proportionately the velocity. So I think that without
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 12
making a final decision on this, we're leaning towards the gravity sewer line at a
substandard slope.
Bird: Gary, in other words, 1.2 of the recommendations have you got them in front of
you? You're saying we need to change that? Is that the wording or do we need to
change the wording in that recommendation? On page 2 Gary, 1.2 in recommendation.
Smith: I don't know that we need to change it Councilman Bird. I think that that is a
general statement that relates what will be required or what will be needed. We can't
vary from the cover over the pipe because of protection from lodes above the pipe so
we'll have to deal with the slope or the property will need to be filled slightly, and I think
that we've talked in that regard, we've talked to the applicant's engineer and they
understand that.
Bird: Thank you Gary.
Corrie: Since this is a public hearing, Mr. Unger up and you can be first. Let you
address any issues you may have on the recommendation first.
Unger: Once again Mr. Mayor and Council, my name is Bob Unger. We represent the
applicant. Our address is 870 N. Linder Road, Meridian, Idaho. I'll try to make this as
brief as possible. I know you have a very long agenda. We are proposing 36 single
family lots on the project. We do have 9.83 acres. We are requesting the opportunity to
have a variety of house sizes ranging from 1,001 to 1,301 square feet and we would like
to have those dispersed throughout the entire development. There is a provision in the
city code that allows for such a varying that's section 2-411-2. We'll be providing sewer
and water to the site. The property is serviced irrigation wise through the Nampa
Meridian Irrigation District. We do have the Nine Mile Creek which runs through the
middle of the property. We are proposing to pipe the entire creek. Staff had
recommended that or suggested that they would like to see the Nine Mile Creek left
open. We have no problem with that, and we've agreed to leave it open. We will be
providing a path along the northern border of the Nine Mile Creek as required by staff.
We will have to pipe this area of the creek right in here because we do have a sewer
crossing. The sewer main that we are proposing runs off to the west in this area here
and would follow the Nine Mile Creek to the assisted living facility to the west where
there is a sewer line that we can gravity feed through there. As Gary Smith indicated,
John Carpenter who is our engineer on this project has met with his staff to review the
grade of the sewer and the cover of the sewer. Since their discussions, John has come
back, we've looked at the project. We are going to have to fill this area. We'll have to
do some fill approximately a foot and also down in this area. We'll have to do some fill,
but that will provide us with some additional grade for the sewer and as far as the
minimum cover for the sewer, I believe he is proposing to go to a heavier gauged piping
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 13
which would allow some reduction in the amount of cover if I'm correct. Is that right
Gary?
Smith: Mr. Mayor and Council, Bob, there is a reduction in that cover, but there is a
minimum too even regardless of the type of pipe.
Unger: A couple of points as we went through, general information as provided by staff
and conditions provided by staff originally we were proposing that the irrigation system
within the development would be owned by the owned and maintained by the Tremont
Homeowners Association. Since that time we've met with Nampa Meridian Irrigation
District and also down at the assisted living facility they have a pump station down there
and we have negotiated with Nampa Meridian Irrigation District to hook on to that
system so they will own and maintain the irrigation system within the development. We
have four properties to the north of the project. At the last planning and zoning hearing,
it was discussed, one of the property owners — I can't remember if it was this one or that
one met with us after the meeting. We discussed his needs for irrigation because he
does receive his irrigation through a ditch right along in this area. In fact there's a ditch
that runs all the way around, which we will have to pipe. We will provide these four
homes with irrigation through our pressurized irrigation system. At least two of the
people do pump out of the ditch and do have a pressurized system on their property.
The other two flood irrigate and we would be able to through our pressure system, we
would still be able to provide them the water for their flood irrigation and we will make
those arrangements to continue their irrigation waters. We have reviewed the
conditions as recommended by the Planning and Zoning Commission and the staff. We
really have no problem with the conditions forwarded from the Planning and Zoning
Commission. We are working with the City Engineer to take care of the sewering of the
property and also water for the property. One other item that we discussed at the
Planning and Zoning Commission. We are the right-of-way for the Union Pacific
Railroad right down in this area. We also have a rather large lateral that runs right
along in this area. Then also a small ditch on the north side of this lateral. We'll be able
to pipe the ditch that runs on the north side of the lateral, but as far as it restricts our
ability to provide a 20 foot planting strip along there as required by city code. At the
Planning and Zoning Commission meeting, we felt that we could comfortably put in a 5
foot planting strip. They asked us if there was any way possible that we could extend
that out to 10 foot. We agreed to look at that. We have looked at it and we will be able
to provide a 10 foot planting strip and the Commission felt comfortable with that. I
believe other than that, that covers the application itself. Just for future reference, if I
may, just kind of a heads up there is a piece of property that sits right here. It's owned
by Mr. and Mrs. Hansen. They have come to us and we have submitted an application
for four lots on their property, which would be tied into the Tremont Subdivision.
Actually it would be called Tremont Subdivision No. 2. They had the same amenities,
but I just want to make you aware of the fact that there will four additional building lots
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 14
right in this area and that application will be coming before you probably in another
month and a half. I'll stand for questions.
Bird: Bob, in the recommendations on 1.22, page five in the Planning and Zoning
Recommendation, it states a minimum of twenty foot wide planting strip beyond the
Union Pacific Railroad right-of-way as required. Fencing shall not encroach upon this
planting strip. Now that is in the recommendations.
Unger: Mr. Mayor and Mr. Bird I would like to have that reviewed again. Because I do
recall the Commission agreeing to reducing that to ten feet. I could be wrong and it may
be my mistake and maybe a typographical error. If in fact that was their decision, we
would ask you to work with us on that and see if we can't get it down to a ten foot strip.
Because we still have to provide, like I say, we have to pipe the northern ditch and then
there is an access road for the district to get in there and keep the lateral cleaned out,
so it really restricts our ability to put anything in there. So we would ask that you do
consider reducing that to ten feet if at all possible.
Bird: Okay, I just wanted to bring that to your attention so that you didn't — thank you.
Corrie: Any other questions of Bob? Anyone else from the audience who would like to
issue testimony on this preliminary plat request?
CHARLES STUART 821 W. PINE, MERIDIAN, IDAHO
Stuart: My name is Charles Stuart. I live at 821 W. Pine on the north side of this
property. Mr. Mayor and Councilmen, my question is to ask of Mr. Unger he said the
way I understood the assisted living home will own the pressurized water system and
supply it to there. I didn't understand who is going to own the water system.
Corrie: Bob, would you like to —
Unger: That's owned by Nampa Meridian. The pump station is owned by the Nampa
Meridian Irrigation System and we would come off of that and they would own and
maintain this system also, this pressurized system.
Stuart: Nampa Meridian then. Okay thank you.
Corrie: Anyone else would like to issue testimony? Council, any further questions?
Bird: Can we ask the staff now? (End of Tape) Going back to that 20 foot wide strip.
That is the recommendation. Had you guys, is this just something that didn't get caught
on the ten foot one?
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 15
Stiles: I know there was some discussion at Planning and Zoning about the problem of
planting in that strip. The 20 foot wide planting strip is an ordinance requirement. I
think the basic problem was actually being able to put trees or vegetation you know any
kind of plantings in that area. I don't know Bob if it's possible to at least grass that for
the full 20 feet to meet at least the ordinance requirement. That would be what I would
like to see if they could. I realize it's going to be covered. I don't know the exact
configuration of where the road would be. I don't know if maybe could since it shows on
the plat that they do have an easement within the Union Pacific Railroad right-of-way
whether that could be located in the right-of-way as far as the piping. Maybe Bob could
address that.
Corrie: It's still a public hearing Bob come on up.
Bird: I need to ask a question. Shari, if it's in the ordinance, then they would have to
have a variance to get that down to ten foot, wouldn't they?
Stiles: Yes, they would.
Bird: Okay.
Unger: For the record, Bob Unger again. Mr. Mayor and Council, speaking with Mr.
Holman who is the principal of the developer, we could provide some sort of additional
ten feet of landscaping. It may not be a groomed, grassy area, but we could put in
some low maintenance ground cover that might provide what you're looking for.
Because it would be within the right-of-way of the irrigation district and we feel that we
can probably work with them on that. But as far as a manicured yard type thing, I don't
believe that they would allow us to do something like that, but we could put in some sort
of a ground cover that might meet your needs.
Bird: Mr. Mayor this is for Shari or Bob, whichever one can answer it. The 20 foot can't
include the Union Pacific's right-of-way, can it by our ordinance? So they're going to
have to come back with a variance if they want to stay the ten foot. Am I not right?
Stiles: They are showing 20 foot lot. It's 25 feet actually that is a common lot that is
exclusive of the Union Pacific Railroad right-of-way.
Bird: That would work then.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor, Mr. Unger, two points in the recommendation and a point you
talked about but didn't give us many specifics recommendation talks about detailed
landscape plans for commons areas, and you talked about Nine Mile Creek. The first
question is, is the area on the plat adjacent to and around Nine Mile Creek a common
area and a common lot?
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 16
Unger: Mr. Mayor, Mr. Rountree yes this — this is a common lot and we will have to
provide a landscape plan for this common lot. We would like to essentially keep the
creek itself in a natural state. We will have to do landscaping along the path area here
and along this southern area here is a maintenance road for the maintenance of the
creek itself, but we can incorporate that into our landscape plan.
Rountree: I just want to make sure you understood that that would be part of that and
another question about the lot that's adjacent to Nine Mile Creek on the northwest
corner right there. Is that a building lot or is that a common area as well?
Unger: That is a drainage lot.
Rountree: Drainage lot.
Unger: This one right here is a drainage lot.
Rountree: So will that be landscaped and be under the ownership and care and
maintenance of the homeowners association?
Unger: Yes, this will be — this will have to be landscaped. We will have a drainage
retention pond right in this area there approximately two feet deep.
Rountree: That's all I had.
Corrie: Any questions from Council? Hearing none, I'll entertain a motion to close the
public hearing then.
Bentley: Mr. Mayor before you do that, I have a question for Kenny, Chief Bowers.
There was some mention in some of the discussions of the conditions of abandoning
the temporary turnaround, emergency turnaround. Do you have any comment on that?
Bowers: Abandoning it Councilman Bentley, is that what you said?
Bentley: Yes.
Bowers: Councilman Bentley and City Council, I have not heard anything about
abandoning that emergency turnaround, not at all.
Bentley: Okay, then I must have misunderstood what he said.
Bowers: I did make comments on the cul-de-sac turnaround. I did not make cu -de-
sacs on that one. Either I missed it or something. Our biggest problem on that is when
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 17
you divide two lots, the people do want to use that for parking, throwing their grass
trimmings and their trash in there, but before we have been posting that emergency
turnaround only, and I don't know if we've had any trouble with anybody parking in
those areas or not, and if the Council wants me to work a little closer with Bob, we can
sure do that.
Bentley: Thank you.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor I move that we close the public hearing.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion made and second to close the public hearing. Any further discussion?
Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: Any further discussion? You have either approve the preliminary plat subject to
conditions or approve it without conditions or deny.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor I move that we approve the preliminary plat for Tremont Place
Subdivision subject to staff conditions and conditions identified in the Planning and
Zoning requirements.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Okay, do you want the attorney to prepare the order for it as well?
Rountree: Yes, Mr. Mayor, that would be included in my motion.
Bentley: Mr. Mayor question for Mr. Rountree. That includes the working out of the
sewer detail?
Rountree: In my opinion that's a staff approval and that will be done.
Bentley: Okay, thank you.
Corrie: Any further discussion? All those in favor of the approval of the preliminary plat
subject to the conditions of staff say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: Okay, Mr. Attorney if you will draw up the order and decision.
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 18
9. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR (EASEMENT) VACATION OF LOTS 8 & 9 OF
BLOCK 8 OF MERIDIAN GREENS SUBDIVISION BY CHARLES FULLER—EAST OF
MONTEGO & SOUTHWEST OF MARTINIQUE LOCATED IN MERIDIAN GREENS
SUBDIVISION:
Corrie: Before I open the public hearing, Mr. Gigray, would you give us some
information here on this one?
Gigray: Mr. Mayor and members of the Council, just byway of staffing the Council and
Mayor as well as anyone that might appear to give testimony on this matter, since this
involves a vacation even of an easement as required by Idaho Code sections both in
the subdivision law as well as in the highway district law, as the City Council has done
before the decision tonight will be basically whether to approve the vacation or not
which would be the City's approval because it has jurisdiction to give that approval, but
the actual vacation itself will have to be done by the Ada County Highway District and
then our proposed orders if you grant this request will include a provision that it will be
subject to and dependent upon the applicant filing an appropriate petition for the
vacation of the easement and receiving an order of the Ada County Highway District.
Corrie: Thanks Mr. Gigray. I'll open the public hearing at this time and first have staff,
do you have any questions or address the recommendations to the City Council?
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, this does not include any Ada County Highway District
vacation. It's an easement between lot lines. We do have relinquishments of
easements from the affected utilities. What they are proposing to do is do a lot line
adjustment on lot number 9 and since a lot line adjustment does not move easements,
that's why they are having to do the vacation. They are also wanting to combine lot 7
and 8 and the developer has put a deed restriction on lot 8 that will show that anytime
that's sold, the two lots have to go together. The remaining lot 8 when the lot line
adjustment is done will not meet the R-4 requirements, and that's one reason that they
put that deed restriction on there. The other reason is simply somebody wants more
land out there and that was the reason for the vacation, but Ada County Highway
District would have basically no comment on this. It's not a right-of-way. It's simply the
utility easement.
Corrie: So we don't have an ordinance that allows them to combine lots; is that right?
Stiles: No, we don't.
Corrie: Okay.
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 19
Gigray: Mr. Mayor I would still advise the Council in my legal opinion based on the
requirements of Idaho Code § 50-1325 and the procedures to section 4203 even
involving easements for utilities even though these aren't roads and streets. There's
still some provisions in that statute that I think say that you have to vacate easements in
the same procedure and manner in which you vacate roads right-of-way and until they
change that statute, I think that the applicant will be well advised to go through that
procedure. If the Ada County Highway District says that it has no such jurisdiction and
entertains it then fine, but this would grant the City's approval and I guess if that's
enough on its own, then that will work, but I still think there's a problem with easements,
because they're public, they're dedicated to the public. If this was a private easement,
then that's a different matter.
Corrie: This is a public hearing. Is the representative from Meridian Green Subdivision
here this evening?
GLENN BENNETT, CIVIL SURVEY CONSULTANTS, 1530 W. STATE
Bennett: Mr. Mayor and City Council, my name is Glenn Bennett and I'm with the Civil
Survey Consultants, and we're located at 1530 W. State here in Meridian, Idaho. Shari
pretty much explained everything already. The owner of the lot on the north there lot
number 7 wanted to have a bigger lot, so he approached the Fullers to see about
buying a piece of the adjoining lot. They had a buyer for the third lot down that was
agreeable to buy the remainder of that middle lot, so they asked us to prepare a lot line
adjustment. Your ordinance doesn't allow the diminishing of lot numbers, so we are
having to go through this type of a procedure to do that. The easement that's existing
now is the line that runs east/west. We're asking that it be vacated and a new
easement will be granted along the new property line. It will be the dividing line
between the two new lots as Shari said the new lot 8 will be deed restricted to always
run with that lot 7. That's about it.
Corrie: You have no quarrel with the recommendations that the City Council had from
the Planning and Zoning?
Bennett: No, sir.
Corrie: Anyone else from the public who would like to issue testimony in this request?
Council have any questions that they would like to issue any testimony? I'll entertain a
motion to close the public hearing.
Anderson: So moved.
Rountree: Second.
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 20
Corrie: Motion made and second to close the public hearing. All those in favor say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor, a question for City Attorney. Findings on a vacation?
Gigray: We have, yeah, we've done that before. We just did an order granting the
approval of the request and then we've just had it signed by the Mayor and then since
there is no debate here about any of the recommendations, we just pull the Findings
from this. The orders before have signified the City's approval the requested vacation
and I just have included the language which I stated. If you don't want that language in
there, just say so in your motion. I'll do as you say.
Rountree: Sure you will. Mr. Mayor I move that we have the City Attorney prepare
Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law and Order of Decision recommending the
approval of the request for vacation of lots 8 and 9 in block 8, Meridian Greens
Subdivision.
Bentley: Second.
Corrie: Motion is made by Mr. Rountree second by Mr. Bentley to approve the request
for vacation of lots 8 and 9 of block 8 of Meridian Greens Subdivision and order the
attorney to draw up the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law.
Gigray: Mr. Mayor and members of the Council, just a point of clarification on the
motion so I know what to do. If you do not want the language that it's subject and
dependent upon the applicant filing an appropriate petition for vacation to the Ada
County Highway District, I will not include that in the order. Now tell me not to. If you
don't direct that way, then I will include that.
Rountree: I understood that the first time. That's why I didn't include it in my motion
that I think it's wise that we direct them to check in case there's a legal issue.
Gigray: Thank you.
Corrie: Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the original motion
say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
10. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR ANNEXATION & ZONING OF 5 ACRES (FOR L-
O ZONING) BY LOMBARD CONRAD ARCHITECTS -1985 BLACK CAT:
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 21
Corrie: At this time I will open the public hearing and invite staff first. Any comments on
your recommendations and any other comments you might have.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, this is a request for annexation and zoning to L -O for an
LDS church. Staff's recommendation was since this is shown as single family
residential in the Comprehensive Plan that if it is rezoned that it be limited to public and
quasi public uses and ask that you incorporate our comments in our memo dated April
9t" 1999 in your findings.
Smith: Mr. Mayor and council members, I noticed in reviewing the recommendations
that Planning and Zoning and Public Works had submitted that a comment was
inadvertently omitted concerning the required extension of the sanitary sewer line along
the west side of Black Cat Road. At the present time it ends at the south side of
Turnberry Subdivision. The sewer line would need to be extended to the south along
the west side of Black Cat Road to the south boundary of the parcel that's being
requested for annexation and zoning. I'd like to have that added as a condition from the
Public Works Department. Thank you.
Corrie: Shari, since we're in a public hearing, do you recommend that we have a
development agreement or are you requesting one since there are a lot of conditions
here?
Stiles: I don't know how else we would restrict it if it's your desire to restrict it to those
uses that we stated in our recommendation. Unless we can require that through a deed
restriction or just through the annexation ordinance itself. Most of the other
requirements that we have in here we can pretty much handle through the building
permit process.
Corrie: All right, since this is a public hearing, is the representative from Lombard
Conrad Architects here? Yes, sir.
STEVE SIMMONS
Simmons: Mr. Mayor and members of the Council, my name is Steve Simmons with
Lombard Conrad Architects representing the applicant. Our address 1221 Shoreline
Lane, Boise, Idaho 83702. We have reviewed staff's recommendations and take no
exceptions to any of those. Nor do we take any exception to the latest additions by Mr.
Smith or Shari, either one.
Corrie: Okay thank you. Any questions from Council? Thank you. Is there anyone
else here that would like to issue testimony in this request from Lombard Conrad
Architects? Council, any further questions? I'll entertain a motion to close the public
hearing.
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 22
Bird: So moved.
Anderson: Second.
Corrie: Motion made and second to close the public hearing. All those in favor say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: Any comments or discussion from Council? I'll entertain a motion on the
request for annexation and zoning of 5 acres for L -O zoning by Lombard Conrad
Architects.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor, I move that we have the City Attorney Findings of Fact and
Conclusions of Law and Order of Decision and an annexation ordinance along with a
development agreement for the annexation and zoning of the five acres on Black Cat.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Rountree second by Mr. Bird to approve the annexation
and zoning and draw up the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law and Order of
Decision and the ordinance of the annexation along with the development agreement on
item number ten. Any further discussion?
Bird: Mr. Mayor I think Mr. Gigray has got a question.
Gigray: Mr. Mayor and members of the Council, just for further direction, does that
motion include that the conditions of the development agreement and of our order of
decision would be those in the recommendation of City Council and would that motion
also include the additional requirement as requested by the Public Works Director that
we would include language that they are to extend the sewer line down Black Cat to the
subject property?
Rountree: The only clarification I would make would be the recommendation from
Planning and Zoning, not City Council.
Corrie: Point of information, are we adding what Gary wanted on that? Is that what
you're doing too?
Bird: They agreed to it.
Corrie: Okay, any further comments? Hearing none, all in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 23
11. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR ANNEXATION & ZONING OF ONE ACRE (FOR
R-15 ZONING) BY ALICE CULVER-911 E PINE STREET:
Corrie: At this time I'll open the public hearing and start with staff questions,
recommendations.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, this is for property on Pine Street. They had requested
to be hooked up to sewer and Council directed them to request annexation and that is
why they have come in with this application. They have no plans at least that they've
disclosed at this time for the development of the property. They are considering multi
family dwellings and have requested the R-15 zone. We ask that you include our
comments in our memo and that a development agreement be prepared for this project.
Smith: Mr. Mayor and Council members, I just have a couple of items that I would think
need to be corrected on the Recommendation to City Council. At the bottom of page
one, item number six. The subject property is located on the south side of Pine Street
rather than the north side, and it's approximately 1700 feet west of Locust Grove Road
rather than 500 feet west. I would request those corrections be made. Thank you.
Corrie: This is a public hearing. Would the representative for Alice Culver come up?
ALICE CULVER
Culver: I'm Alice Culver. My address is 6100 Pierce Park Lane, Boise. I'm here to get
an okay for annexation and rezone.
Corrie: Okay, have you read the recommendations to the City Council?
Culver: Yes, I have and we agree to comply.
Corrie: Any questions from Council of the applicant?
Bird: I have none.
Bentley: I have none.
Corrie: Okay, thank you. Anyone else from the public who would like to issue
testimony in this request for annexation and zoning? Hearing none, any other questions
from Council? I'll entertain a motion to close the public hearing.
Bentley: So moved.
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 24
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion made and second to close the public hearing. All those in favor say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: Discussion of staff? Hearing none, I'll entertain a motion for the annexation and
zoning.
Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I move that we instruct the city attorney to prepare Findings of Fact
and Conclusions of Law with the addition or corrections to the Planning and Zoning's
item number six as stated by Gary Smith and to prepare an order for annexation and a
development agreement.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion is made and second to approve the request for annexation and zoning
with the conditions as stated in the motion and with the corrections of the
recommendation to Council. Any further discussion? All those in favor of the motion
say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
12. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR PRELIMINARY PLAT FOR LAKES AT CHERRY
LANE NO. 9 (44 SINGLE FAMILY BUILDING LOTS ON 14.78 ACRES) BY STEINER
DEVELOPMENT, INC.—SOUTH OF USTICK ROAD & EAST OF BLACK CAT ROAD:
Corrie: I'll open the public hearing and invite staff comments and recommendation.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, this is a piece of property that was initially proposed to
be within the Ashford Greens Subdivision. We had seen this again, I don't know if you
had seen it. Yeah Wilkins Ranch, it was included as part of Wilkins Ranch at one time.
They have reconsidered and have come back with a project that meets the R-4
requirements. They've taken our recommendations for the cul-de-sac to make those
larger lots. It does meet all the requirements for an R-4. They are proposing I believe
the pathway to continue along the Eight Mile Lateral. One issue that remains, I don't
know if you can see it on your plats, on the west end there where W. Moon Lake Drive
ends there's a little strange piece of property. This was a remnant when Ashford
Greens developed. The City needed additional land for the lift station and when they
adjusted all of their lots, they failed to include this portion there. So basically there's no
legal right-of-way existing there. We had asked the applicant to get with David Turnbull
and try to come to some conclusion to get that taken care of. Ms. Bowcutt will address
what our conversations were, but I think the applicant's first response was that they
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 25
would like the City to take care of it, felt it was a City problem. But we feel strongly that
the applicant and the adjacent landowner should get together and solve the problem.
This was previously annexed. There was no development agreement required when
this was annexed.
Corrie: Mr. Smith, any comments?
Smith: No, Mr. Mayor.
Bird: Mr. Mayor when we get the applicant up here, Shari, in the development
agreement are you talking about 1.17 on page 4 not in the development agreement,
mean in the Planning and Zoning Recommendation. I am getting ahead of myself.
(Inaudible)
Stiles: Yes, that was a comment.
Bird: That was what was agreed that if they didn't get the right-of-way through there,
that they would put a 50 foot cul-de-sac.
Stiles: Yeah.
Bird: That going to eliminate some of the lots, isn't it?
Stiles: Yes.
Corrie: Ms. Bowcutt.
BECKY BOWCUTT, BRIGGS ENGINEERING, 1800 W. OVERLAND
Bowcutt: Becky Bowcutt, Briggs Engineering, 1800 W. Overland. I'm representing the
applicant. As Shari indicated this parcel was part of the Ashford Greens development
originally. When Ashford Greens did not pick up their option on this parcel, Steiner
Development purchased the parcel. Right here as Shari indicated I guess according to
Bruce Freckleton, the City had asked for some additional area to go with the lift station
where the lift station is located to the west in Ashford Greens. In making that shift
somehow a 50 foot gap was created. At the time I don't think anybody was concerned
because this would have been a continuation of Ashford Greens done by Brighton
Corporation, but since they did not exercise their option and the property was
purchased by Steiner, there is a 50 foot gap. The City has asked us to get with Brighton
Corporation and see if we can get this resolved, and my response based on my client's
wishes, they said you know any help that we can get from the City or Ada County
Highway District would be appreciated. I did meet with Mr. Turnbull and Mr. Tanner of
the Brighton Corporation last week. We discussed it and they asked me if we were to
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 26
obtain the 50 feet, would I gain another lot? My answer to them was no, I do not. It
would just be distributed to make the existing lot shown here larger. And they said well
we believe that it's 50 feet. The lot size is 80 feet, therefore, it's 5/8 of a lot, and lots in
Ashford Greens go anywhere between 32-$35,000. And so they're asking for probably
around $20,000. According to Mr. Turnbull, the street improvements have been
installed and I believe that is correct because they have got a buildable lot here.
Therefore they probably would have taken those street improvements across the
frontage. Otherwise I think the city staff would have recognized that, so the
improvements come across to this lot and then I believe the property line or the line of
the plat angles here, so I've got this gap right here. This gap here doesn't really do us
any good. It makes a little bit larger lots, but this is the area of concern, this triangular
area. So I meet with my clients tomorrow to take back the information I received from
Brighton to see what their response is. We would like to solve this problem. Obviously
if they can't come to some terms, then we would have to put a turnaround which
therefore would obviously make these two end lots unbuildable until such time as that
turnaround was removed and the roadway is dedicated, but if the road is in people are
going to drive on it, so it's kind of a very peculiar situation. Because it would be there,
because they claim it's at their perimeter. It's not dedicated all the way to the perimeter.
When you saw this as Wilkins Ranch, they had a lot of townhouses within this project.
There was quite a bit of opposition from the Ashford Greens residents. In reviewing the
record, I recommended to my client obviously with these lots backing up to the golf
course, these are considered at least from a planning perspective very desirable or
premium lots. And therefore it made far more sense to go with larger single family
residential lots. They do have an existing R-4 zone. All of these lots meet or exceed
the 8,000 square feet. My lot sizes range from 8264 square feet. That's one of my very
smallest lot all the way up to 22,544 square feet. If I average out just my lot area
excluding streets and common areas, I'm averaging 10,700 square feet per lot. We
provided a common lot here, and one of staff's comments was how does this Eight Mile
Lateral affect this block? I don't think when they did the review that they noticed that
that was a common lot. It comes through the golf course. My recommendation to my
clients is that it be piped through this common lot here and then obviously go under a
culvert here and then we would like it to remain open here and fence it off. I have
provided a separate lot to accommodate the Eight Mile Lateral, and its accompanying
existing easement through Nampa Meridian Irrigation District. When we pipe this here,
that would make that common lot very usable. We'd give a nice corridor view into the
back of the golf course. With the Wilkins property up here just north of it, a street is
planned to come right here, and so when that street intersects with Moon Lake Drive,
you would look right into a nice landscaped common lot and then into the golf course.
We provided two islands in the cul-de-sac. One here at the entrance of the cul-de-sac
and one down here. These will be designed to meet emergency vehicle access and
highway district standards for the radius and as they wrap around there in the cul-de-
sac. The configuration of this property with this kind of little leg here we could not keep
that cul-de-sac at 450 feet from center to center no matter how many times we tried and
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 27
how many different angles we used. We tried pulling it down and bringing it in this way,
and it was the only way it worked was to bring it in like this and I pushed it as far north
as I could and as you can see both these lots here are 22,000. This is 455, this 22544.
So I did — you know I kept those lot large to minimize the length of the cul-de-sac. It's
approximately 530 feet. I put in my application. I don't know if you guys are still doing
the variance on the cul-de-sac and block length. If you are, I will submit one and get
that process prior to submittal of the final plat. Typically under most jurisdictions design
standards on the subdivision ordinance are handle through what we call waivers.
They're an extra fee. Variances are typically a site characteristic dealing with
dimensional standards, but I know your ordinance is a little different. We do exceed the
1,000 foot block length. The staff counts this block here. There is no way for me to
break that up with any public street. I do have a pedestrian access here, so we've done
the best we can with the shape of the property. We are confined by the Eight Mile
Lateral and the golf course. One other issue was a pedestrian path. We discussed at
length at the Planning and Zoning Commission, staff stated that they would like to see a
pedestrian path along the Eight Mile Lateral for a possible continuation of future
pathways that may go off of any north westerly direction. At the Planning and Zoning
Commission, Mr. Ashenbrenner was in attendance and he is on the Board of Directors
of the Nampa Meridian Irrigation District. He reminded the Planning and Zoning
Commission that they still have the issue of liability and until the City resolves that issue
of who will be liable for those pathways, the irrigation district board will not consent to
these pathways on these laterals, so I would ask that you not put us in the position to
mandate it. If you would like to encourage it, I will do my best to try to see if something
can be done, but there's no way that I am going to change the Nampa Meridian
Irrigation District Board's mind. I've gone before them on this issue of pathways and
pedestrian bridges over their facilities and have hit a stone wall because of the issue of
liability. I'm for ped paths, not anti -ped paths, but just don't put me — mandate it
because I can't deliver without their consent. The density in this is 2.98 dwelling units
per acre. We feel it is a good project, far superior to what you saw before. We did have
some comments from some of the residents from the Planning and Zoning Commission.
I talked to them after the meeting. One of their main concerns is what's going to
happen on this property? I have told them that I will meet with them. I've got my plan
done now. I've mailed some out to one resident and we will meet with them and
discuss the development of the parcel to the north. One of the main concerns was
traffic and providing some type of a collector to go out to Ustick so that Ashford Greens
did not bear the burden of the traffic. What I stated to the Planning and Zoning
Commission because we've got the connection to the Lake at Cherry Lane, and the
connection to Ashford Greens, you'll see kind of a splitting of that traffic in two different
directions, but it is a fact that this will add additional traffic on Moon Lake Drive. There
is no doubt. They did have some concerns about the speeds. That's a pretty straight
street. I recommended that they talk with Ada County Highway District and discuss
what their options are. Either some stop signs at some intersections or possibly some
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 28
speed humps. I don't that's not a nice word. Kenny probably doesn't like it either. Do
you have any questions?
Rountree: Mr. Mayor, run it by me one more time whether or not we have right-of-way
for a road on the west end?
Bowcutt: No, there is a gap on the west end.
Rountree: But is it Brighton Corporation's understanding that that road goes to their
perimeter?
Bowcutt: They said they have improved it to their perimeter. That's what Mr. Turnbul
told me last week. Have I verified that? No, I have not. I did discuss it with the
highway district. They were not aware that that street had not been dedicated to their
eastern perimeter. They thought it had.
Bird: Mr. Mayor in other words that 50 feet Beck we don't know who owns.
Bowcutt: Brighton.
Bird: Well evidently if they don't have the road finished out to the end of their property
then.
Bowcutt: The claim that they — they put the improvements in, but they didn't dedicate it.
That's what Mr. Turnbull told me. I said, are you sure? My understanding was there
was an improvement gap. He said, nope, we put the improvements to that eastern
boundary. He said there's sewer, water and a street.
Bird: To the eastern boundary.
Bowcutt: Yes, that's what he told me, but I have not verified that. I'm going to have to
send a survey crew out to verify that. I don't know, Gary may —
Bird: Gary, what kind of a hole have we got ourselves in with 50 feet of land there?
Smith: I don't know Mr. Mayor and Council, Councilman Bird. I'm not sure what that
situation leaves other than Brighton owns approximately 50 foot wide strip of ground.
That if they cant' work out some kind of a deal with the developer of this property, they'll
still own and I don't know what they'll do with it. It makes sense for them to work
together to resolve the problem and I agree that this did result from a request by the city
to add to the width of the lift station parcel of ground from what they originally
preliminary platted.
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 29
Bird: If I'm understanding Becky right they are supposed to have the road finished up to
their eastern part of their property; is that not right?
Smith: Right.
Bird: Well if they own that 50 foot of ground, that's part of their eastern part of — so they
got to come on over 50 more feet to get their east part of the land.
Smith: I think what Becky is saying is that they have improved to the eastern boundary.
They have gone across the front of this 50 foot strip with the road.
Bird: Have they Becky?
Bowcutt: That's what Mr. Turnbull stated to me that they had put the improvements in
but they had not dedicated it, so it's there but it's not official.
Bird: Are they willing to dedicate it?
Bowcutt: That's what I'm trying to get —
(Inaudible)
Bird: But if there is a cul-de-sac put in there, we're going to kick all the traffic of this
subdivision back out to the east.
Bowcutt: Yes.
Bird: And the other way, if we can go on through W. Moon Lake, then we're going to
hopefully 50/50, 50 west 50 east.
Smith: At least it would come back to the east to a point where it could go north again
to the —
Bird: Yeah, that's true.
Smith: Yes.
Rountree: Question for Shari or Gary. The final plat on any of Ashford Greens would
have included the roadway system to the boundaries of their development and
indication on those that those are to be dedicated public streets, correct? I mean that's
just part of the platting process. So whether Mr. Turnbull thinks he's dedicated or not, if
they've built it, it's on the plat as a street.
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 30
Smith: It's not on the plat as a street.
Rountree: It is not on the plat.
Smith: No. I think how the plat shows it is how it's shown here in dotted lines. That's
how the final plat shows it. How it shows the —
Rountree: With the triangular —
Smith: Yes, correct.
Rountree: How many more building permits do they need?
Smith: I don't know how many of those lots have been built upon.
Bowcutt: Mr. Mayor and Councilman Rountree, I guess one concern I would have is
this lot here. I don't know if it's built on or not. But technically he doesn't have a full
public street in front of his lot. If you look at it, that's what it looks like. We've checked
the Assessor's map and it runs diagonally and it's 50 feet wide from here to here and
runs like that. It's very strange.
Rountree: I agree (End of Tape)
Corrie: ... of Becky.
:3R0MII VVY170 I0
Corrie: Is there anyone from the public who would like to issue testimony on this
problem?
Smith: Mr. Mayor I might make one other comment. At the time that this process took
place in additional property for the lift station, all this property was under option by
Ashford Greens. Therefore it wasn't an issue at that time. As the property developed
and Brighton Corporation picked up their options on the properties, it continued to
develop and then Brighton lost their option and this was what was left, so it's a problem
that took place because of that, not necessarily because of the addition of property to
the City for that lift station site. They were willing to give that property for that lift station.
They had no qualms about that, no problems about that and they did that and it was
appreciated so the lift station could be constructed, but the end result was when they
lost their option, this gap was created.
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 31
Bentley: Mr. Mayor well with what Gary says and I remember parts of this vaguely, but
they created this problem by letting their option go so they need to be the ones
resolving it.
Smith: I don't think that there's a major problem with — well I shouldn't say I don't think,
I would ask Mr. Gigray if it is a problem but if the street has been constructed across the
piece of ground that has not been officially dedicated to the Ada County Highway
District, is it a street?
Gigray: Mr. Mayor and members of the Council, Gary, the definitions in the highway
district law at this time would provide that the streets if it's a right-of-way, they have to
accept it before it's in their system before it is maintained. Otherwise they have no
responsibility to maintain it whatsoever. Whether or not it's a legal right-of-way which
they would have if it's public under their general ownership by state law, would be a
factual issue that I think it depends on when the road was put in and whether or not it's
been used by the public for a period of time and we need five years before we get
prescriptive right-of-way through there for a road. If it doesn't meet that standard, then it
probably still under the ownership of Brighton or whoever put it in and they have the
responsibility, legal and liability and otherwise to maintain it. You know this particular
situation I guess I would advise the Mayor and Council as to whether or not the
developer here and staff are comfortable here with the recommendation of the Planning
and Zoning Commission 1.17 at page four as it stands or whether or not they're
uncomfortable with it. If they are, either the developer or staff, and if the Council is
uncomfortable, you may want to continue this public hearing to receive some additional
evidence so that a more definitive facts can be presented to the Council as to what
conditions exist in the field concerning this road and this parcel. I don't think it would be
hard to look some of that stuff up, but I don't know that we have that information here
right now.
Corrie: Any more comments from Council? Discussion?
Rountree: Mr. Mayor are we still in the public hearing?
Corrie: We're still in the public hearing.
Rountree: I don't have anything to offer in the hearing. I've got some discussion.
Corrie: All right. I'll entertain a motion to close the public hearing.
Bird: So moved.
(Inaudible)
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 32
Corrie: Motion made and second that we close the public hearing. All those in favor
say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: It seems to me that the issue that we need to be concerned about is the
public right-of-way or the right-of-way itself, the continuity of the transportation system
and the neighborhood roadway. Having said that it seems to be also that if we move
forward with this preliminary plat with the recommendations that are in there, I'm willing
to bet that this is going to get resolved between the two parties, probably in favor of
ACHD to at least get a dedicated right-of-way through there. Whether or not someone
has to buy a 50 foot wide lot or someone has to figure out what to do with a 50 foot lot in
their current subdivision, I believe that that's something that we as a City can't resolved
with the developers. That's going to take their creativity to figure out how they can
factor that into one another's development. But I think the roadway itself will take care
of itself personally given what's at stake and also the fact that we have yet have had —
we haven't seen a final plat on this. Just my thoughts.
Bird: I concur with Charlie, but the only problem is this 1.17, 1 don't — there's no way,
shape or form I want to see that subdivision go in with two cul-de-sacs. I'm sure the
developers can get together and do it. I think the City should also be involved because I
think we helped create some of that problem to a degree. But I don't know whether we
should table it and bring it back for another hearing, let these developers try to work that
out because I'm not in favor of passing this with that 1.17 in there as per words,
because I can't see two cul-de-sacs in that one little subdivision with only one entry out.
I think it's got to be — I don't know what you can do, and I'm sure they can work it out,
but I think this shows us something that when we take for final plats and stuff if the
property isn't owned don't plan on the options because more options are dropped a lot
of times and are picked up by developers so we need to look at each plat as a property
and not worry what's next to it.
Corrie: Any other comments?
Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I too am not in favor of passing this at this time. I'd like to see it
continued and try to work out this. I agree with Keith that two cul-de-sacs in there just
isn't going to work. I'd like to see them get it resolved out and see if they can't get it
taken care of.
Anderson: I agree. I don't want to see two cul-de-sacs, but I also agree with Mr.
Rountree that I think we're worrying about something that is really going to be resolved
between the two developers. Common sense would tell you that Steiner is not going to
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 33
not build on the last two lots or pay the extra expense to put in a cul-de-sac when even
if he had to pay additional money to punch the street on through. That's going to
happen and I don't feel comfortable like you guys passing something without that tied
up, but I think it would resolve itself.
Bird: Mr. Mayor, I'll throw something out here for the Council. I would pass on this if we
took this 1.17 and eliminated from - from W. Moon Lake Drive to Ashford Greens from
there if this connection is not obtained on down, if we eliminate that, I would be in favor
of passing it. That gets rid of eight or get the connection there or don't go. There's
nothing that says that they will have - they can have a cul-de-sac. That would
accomplish and it wouldn't hold them up either, which I don't want to hold them up, but I
also don't want to see two cul-de-sacs in that.
Rountree: And the other point is that again this is a preliminary.
Bird: Yeah, I realize that.
Corrie: Make the motion then. Any further discussion?
Rountree: I think Keith's solution is a legitimate solution. I think the cul-de-sac turns up
the heat on the developer to get something going, but without it I think they understand
what needs to be done.
Corrie: Any other comments? Hearing none, I'll entertain a motion.
Bird: Mr. Mayor I move that the attorneys prepare the Findings of Fact and Conclusions
of Law and Decision and Order for the preliminary plat for the Lakes at Cherry Lane No.
9 with the recommendations 1.17 from the Planning and Zoning, the last three
sentences should be - will be eliminated.
Bentley: Second.
Corrie: Motion made and seconded that we approve the preliminary plat to have the
attorney draw up the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law to eliminate the last three
sentences in 1.17 recommendations to the Council beginning with the word, "if" and to
begin the sentence for the lift station. Any further discussion?
Rountree: I have none.
Corrie: All those in favor of the motion as stated say aye.
f•[QIto] 0KOY-11741aIOW-11IWTIVAc.11
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 34
Bentley: Mr. Mayor I move we take a ten minute break.
Bird: I second that.
Corrie: Okay, motion made and second. All in favor say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
(TEN MINUTE RECESS)
13. REQUEST FOR FINAL PLAT FOR WHITESTONE ESTATES NO. 4 BY WHITESTONE
DEVELOPMENT — WEST OF LINDER ROAD BETWEEN FRANKLIN AND WALTMAN:
Corrie: First we'll have staff comments on item 13.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, this is for the last phase of Whitestone that's adjacent to
the elementary school site. They are coordinating with the school district to make sure
that the pedestrian walkway improvements are made prior to occupancy and I have no
comment beyond what we have submitted.
Corrie: Mr. Smith, any comments?
Smith: I have no other comments, Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Shari, the general comments and the site specific comments were all seen by
Whitestone Estates No. 4 representative? Any comments on that?
Stiles: I believe that we had received a response back. Apparently I don't have them in
my packet here. I did talk to Mr. Van Hess yesterday and his only concern was the
responsibility for the improvements for that walkway. He has already put up the fencing.
He will be putting up the ballards, but he did not want to be responsibility for the actual
paving and landscaping of that, we agreed that since the school district is the owner of
that pedestrian walkway, they would make those improvements.
Corrie: Any questions for staff by Council? Okay, hearing none, I'll entertain a motion
for final plat item number 13. Shari, they weren't asked to have written comments, were
they?
Stiles: Yes, they were and I believe that he has responded. I just don't know where
they may still be in our office.
Bird: Is there anybody here representing the — yeah there is a representative.
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 35
Corrie: I'm sorry. Yes, ma'am. It's not a public hearing, but I guess the question is we
need to do you have any questions on the comments?
Gabica: I'm Sandra Gabica with Pacific Land Surveyors, 1295 S. Eagleflight Way,
Boise, 83705 and no we do not have any problems with any of the comments, and we
did submit a letter. It was yesterday.
Bird: Thank you. Mr. Mayor I got one question. Shari, what you're telling us in these
comments that the City even though provide five foot wide sidewalks in accordance with
city ordinance, you're saying that that is the school district's responsibility and not the
developers?
Stiles: The five foot sidewalks, that's just ordinance requirement and those would be
along the streets. If you see where —
Bird: I didn't see it in here and that's why I was — the only sidewalks I seen in there was
that there and I thought that was what — let's make sure the school district is going to be
responsible for all the sidewalks.
Stiles: I apologize. This is not the one with the pedestrian walkway. This is the one
that's adjacent to Linder Road. That section that is left.
Bird: Okay so we just —
Stiles: So sorry.
Bird: We can just delete that comment?
Stiles: Yeah.
Bird: Thank you Shari.
Corrie: Okay now we got it figured out.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor I move that we approve the final plat for Whitestone Estates No. 4
with staff conditions.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Rountree second by Mr. Bird to approve the final plat for
Whitestone Estates No. 4 and the city attorney prepare the proper order. Any further
comments? All those in favor of the motion say aye.
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 36
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
14. REQUEST FOR FINAL PLAT FOR THOUSAND SPRINGS VILLAGE BY MARTIN
DEVELOPMENT — NORTH OF VICTORY AND WEST OF EAGLE ROAD:
Corrie: Staff comments.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, you have our comments dated May 17th. Becky did
respond today. She takes exception to one of our comments. They cannot agree to
landscape the property in front of Mr. Harris' parcel, and I suppose that's acceptable. It
would be nice if we could have something somewhat consistent, but we will probably be
seeing that property in the future with some other — a rezone request or a subdivision
application. I have nothing in addition to our comments.
Corrie: Which comment is that Shari?
Stiles: It's site specific comment number two.
Corrie: Okay, thank you. Any other staff comments? Is the representative of the
Thousand Springs Village here? Beck?
Bowcutt: Becky Bowcutt, Briggs Engineering, 1800 W. Overland Road. As Shari
indicated we did respond to staff's comments. Will has a copy. Just two quick things.
On the landscaping, we were required to landscape the four foot area between the back
of the sidewalk or the front of the sidewalk and curb, excuse me. We have worked out I
think a pretty good arrangement with staff. One of our requirements was that the
developer install that landscaping and we've asked staff if we can bond for that
landscaping and install that prior to occupancy permits. We plan on storing trees on the
site and then getting that installed. One of the problems we had is if we put that
landscaping in that four foot strip, the contractors building the houses will be backing
over our trees. We don't know where the builder is going to put his driveway, so if his
driveway ends up right where a tree is or they tear up our sprinkler system, we're going
to have some problems. So we have agreed to do that landscaping. We just ask that it
be delayed and we will have a letter of credit to back it up. I just want to go on the
record for that. On Mr. Harris' parcel to refresh your memory, it was not part of the plat,
but it was part of the annexation. Mr. Harris did agree to let us annex his parcel so we
didn't create an enclave. Mr. Harris did agree to dedicate additional right-of-way along
his frontage on Eagle Road, so we had a continuous right-of-way section there. We did
agree to construct sidewalk along his frontage so we wouldn't have a gap between
Thousand Springs and Thousand Springs Village, but I cannot go on to Mr. Harris'
house parcel and install landscaping. The developer has told me that Mr. Harris is in
the process of building a berm. It's obviously not as large and as grand as the berms
that we're installing along Eagle Road, but he is improving his frontage so that his
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 37
parcel looks better. Staff did have some concerns about some contractor type of
equipment on Mr. Harris' parcel, asked that we talk to him about it because it is not an
improved use under the R-4 zone and according to the developer, he had leased his
shop out to a gentleman who had some contractor type equipment and he has asked
that gentleman to remove that equipment by the middle of this month, so it should be
gone, and that was a concern of your staff. Other than that, all conditions are
acceptable.
Bird: Becky, in the site specific comments number two, if we strike the landscaping
sidewalk to be continued across the frontage of the unplatted parcel, that takes care of
all your disagreement. Right?
Bowcutt: Yes, sir. Because we did agree to install landscaping so we have a safe
pedestrian access along Eagle.
Anderson: I think the only word you want to take out there Keith would the landscaping.
Bowcutt: Landscaping, leave sidewalk.
Bird: Just the landscaping, you're right.
Corrie: Any other comments?
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: I'll entertain a motion on the final plat for Thousand Springs Village by Martin
Development.
Bird: Mr. Mayor I move that we pass the final plat for Thousand Springs Village by
Martin Development and for the attorney to draw up the proper papers subject to the
change in the conditions.
Bentley: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bird second by Mr. Bentley to approve the final plat for
Thousand Springs Village as stated with the deletion of the word "landscaping" on site
specific comments number 2. Any further discussion? All those in favor of the motion
say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 38
15. REQUEST FOR FINAL PLAT FOR SEABURY SUBDIVISION BY WEST PINE
DEVELOPMENT — EAST OF TERRA SUBDIVISION BETWEEN N. PINE AND W.
BROADWAY:
Corrie: Comments first from staff.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, this infill project is in an R-15 zone. There is a
conditional use permit that was approved — you have seen the conditional use permit
and it has come through City Council. It has four fourplexes, one triplex and one single
family dwelling. The biggest concern I had remaining on this project was a provision for
trash enclosures. Becky had this pretty much down to the gnat's eyelash when she
designed it and Sanitary Service Company did have some concerns that there was not
adequate area for those trash enclosures, but we did ask that she submit a letter of
approval for the location and number of those trash enclosures prior to signature on the
plat.
Corrie: Is the developer's representative here? Becky?
Bowcutt: Becky Bowcutt, Briggs Engineering, 1800 W. Overland. I have read staff's
comments. There's only one item that I need to bring up. That is the issue of
pressurized irrigation. This project is really a small project. It was like I don't know it
was an acre and a half or something to that effect approximately. I believe when we
came before you as a preliminary plat and a conditional use application, you left it open
and asked us to look at the possibility of getting our irrigation water from Nampa
Meridian Irrigation District. Looking at the option of a shallow well and leaving the
option open if we met requirements for utilizing domestic water. I have spoken with the
developer of the other multi family project that adjoins me, Mr. Stipa. He has indicated
that they have less than a half an acre of irrigatable area when you exclude their
driveways, parking, and building pad areas and therefore he has stated that he did not
want to participate in say a shallow well because the pressurized irrigation option is not
going to happen. We do not have a reliable source from Nampa Meridian. That's the
date that I got from them. So he's opting for I guess hooking on to domestic water. I
don't know if staff has discussed that with him. I don't believe his final plat or plans
have been reviewed at this time so I'm the first one in the door. I did calculate my
irrigatable area in my entire project. I've got .31858 so I'm less than half an acre of
irrigatable area. So I'm not sure I guess what the step is here. I have never done one
where I've hooked on to domestic water. We've always found some type of option but
my projects are typically not this small. So I'm asking for some guidance here from the
Council, maybe some input from Gary on what they've instructed the other applicant to
do on the adjoining property. I'd hoped we could do something jointly. But they've said
no.
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 39
Corrie: Do you have any objections to item number 12 on the site specific, Sanitation
Service?
Bowcutt: No, sir. I provided him with a site plan and we've been trying to set up a
meeting, but our schedules have been clashing. I will get that resolved.
Corrie: Mr. Smith comment.
Smith: Mr. Mayor and Council, we have been limited by Idaho Department of Water
Resources to a maximum area for use of domestic water to sprinkle of/2 acre. This is
less than the one half acre maximum requirement so I would suspect that we could
work with the developer to connect to his irrigation system.
Corrie: Questions Council?
Bird: Mr. Mayor I do have a question. That still even though it's going to come off our
system will be a pressurized irrigation system, won't it Becky?
Bowcutt: Yes, (inaudible)
Bird: Okay, it will be pressurized. Okay, so you agree with that number seven then if
we take away the Nampa Meridian Irrigation thing.
Bowcutt: Yes.
Bird: Okay, you will have a pressurized system in even though it is on domestic water.
Bowcutt: Yes.
Bird: Okay, that's what I thought I understood, but I wasn't sure.
Corrie: Any other questions? I'll entertain a motion then on the final plat.
Anderson: Mr. Mayor I make a motion we approve the final plat for Seabury Subdivision
by West Pine Development with the exception of number three under the general
requirements comments from staff.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Anderson second by Mr. Bird to approve the final plat of
Seabury Subdivision with the exceptions under staff comments as stated. Any further
discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion say aye.
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 40
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
16. DEPARTMENT REPORTS:
A. GARY SMITH:
1. AERATION BASIN PROJECT CHANGE ORDER NO. 3 (AMENDED)
Smith: Thank you Mr. Mayor, Council members. The first item is the aeration basin
project change order no. 3 amended. The last Council meeting I brought before you a
partial amount for approval for the change order on this project. There were some items
that we still had to discuss with the design engineer and with the contractor. We did
have a meeting after that meeting. We did discuss each one of these items on change
order no. 3 and arrived at some conclusions. Dennis Suihkonen is the project engineer
from Keller Associates and Dennis is here this evening. At this point I would just turn
the presentation over to Dennis to talk to you about the items. I think you have the
change order summary with part of your packet that Dennis had prepared.
Suihkonen: Mayor and Council, my name is Dennis Suihkonen with Keller Associates
at 131 S.W. 5t" Avenue, Meridian. We bring before you this evening change order no. 3
for the aeration and pumping facilities project. The project currently is completed and
operating. These are some items that took place in the last couple of months of the
project that we need to take care of. First I would like to say that this change order is a
fairly significant change order, and we at Keller Associates like to try and keep the
change order costs a lot lower than this. I should mention that we — this is the 5t" major
project that we've worked on at the Wastewater Treatment Plant for the City of
Meridian. I think all of the other projects as Gary could probably attest we've had pretty
minimal change orders. I know the budget the city likes to stretch their funds as far as
they can, get as much as they possibly can at the plant, and I think that's our endeavor
to do that. I'd like to just kind of go over, I've summarized the change order. Basically
there were two items that comprised approximately 60% of the total cost of this change
order. The first item is associated with the failure that we had of the existing structure
early in the project. There was some rebar on the existing affluent trough of the erosion
basins that was not properly placed some twenty years or so ago, and when the back fill
was removed from that portion of the trough, there's a very small load on the trough and
the trough (inaudible) over and caused a fairly significant damage a lot of which we
were not able to really get in and look at until later in the project because we had to
keep the existing basins on line and operational while we were working on the new
basins. So what happened when we went in to do some retro fitting on the existing
basins, we started to draw those down and it was apparent that there was some
damage to the interior wall at the joint that we felt like we needed to put some temporary
bracing in to allow for worker safety and then get in and take care of those repairs. That
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 41
amounted to approximately let's see it was $19,884. The second of major significance
involved some timber partition walls. There's approximately 28 segments of wall within
the irrasion basins. The reason that they are timber is because in the future if a DEQ
should change or permit such that we need a total nitrogen requirement that's lower
than it is now, then we can move these walls and change the zones around, reconfigure
their irrasion basins to where we can modify the process to try and meet those
requirements so that's why these walls are put in temporary. During our original design
we originally had four by twelve timber members and large columns in the design.
When we went through design review, we sat together with staff and we looked at the
walls and they aren't really low bearing walls, and we saw the potential maybe for some
savings to cut those down to maybe two by twelve's and save fairly significant amount
of money by going to two by twelve's. Well I guess hindsight maybe tells you maybe
you shouldn't do those things. We went and we put the basin into operation and we got
significantly greater warpage and bowing of those two by twelve's than we ever
anticipated. They were pressure treated lumber, but somehow they got saturated and
they bowed out and so we started — some of them started pulling out of the supports.
As a result we basically had to go back in and provide some additional angle supports
on all the middle of all the framing and we also had to weld some restraining plates on
our column supports for all these members. What happened is we ended spending
$33,837 to reinforce all those timber partitions, which was I guess a little bit more than
original design we put the four by twelve's in, we probably been about the same area.
So those two items I think comprise the biggest part of this change order cost. The
other two items I've summarized here included things that as we were going through the
project we realized that we could improve the project somewhat by adding some things
that staff felt that we needed. Then there was another $9,125 associated with this
unforeseen circumstances where we had conduits that went through some of the new
construction that we didn't realize were there and those types of unforeseen type
instances. So as a result of the total amount of that change order was $89,097.40 of
which $21,001.10 apparently I think was a previously approved at the last Council
meeting. Along with that, we've gone through and evaluated the schedule. The
contractor was impacted by the significantly by the delay of the trough falling over.
There was quite a number of days that were involved doing some rehab work
associated with that. We've recommended a 50 day calendar day extension to his
contract. Anything you want to add to that Gary? So what I'm here before you now is
requesting we recommend approval of this change order no. 3 of the balance which
would be $68,096.30. One other thing I want to bring up that I've summarized on the
sheet before you is a pending delay claim by Turnkey the contractor. Essentially the
contract was extended by approximately two months because of some of the problems
that we had, which caused extended overhead to the contractor including additional
superintendents, field trailer, equipment on site, tools, utilities and those sorts of things.
Additional bond costs, initially I got a letter from the contractor asking for $24,600 which
I was able to justify that amount. Then I received a subsequent letter from the
contractor requesting even more so, which I feel those costs were somewhat
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 42
exaggerated. In evaluating this, I feel the contractor does have a valid claim, and I'm
recommending — wait a second. Get down to item C before I talk about that. The
contractor overall when we considered the delays allowed him, calendar days extension
allowed him, he still ended up being approximately 19 days late, which resulted in
liquidated damages of $9500. So I'm recommending that the contractor be made an
offer to settle this claim in the amount of $24,600 minus the $9,500 liquidated damages
for a total settlement of $15,100. Are there any questions I can answer?
Bird: The cost for unforeseen circumstances, you say that was because we had conduit
and stuff going through that we didn't know. Do we have — did we have existing as built
drawings from the original plans that we could look at?
Suihkonen: Unfortunately we don't.
Bird: We will on the new part?
Suihkonen: All the projects that we've been doing, we've been making as builts of
those particular projects. One of the things that we've been trying to do with the plant,
John Shawcroft the superintendent has been trying to get a utility map put together,
which is up to date showing all the electrical utilities and all the piping utilities that have
been added over the years. In the past we don't have any drawings at all of the
electrical utilities. We have an idea where some of them may go in the plant personnel
what we do with the contractor is we get him together with the plant personnel before he
starts digging and whatever they're aware of, they let him know what's there. But in a
lot of cases, you know, they haven't been there since the beginning of the plant
construction, so they don't know everything that's there.
Bird: So we don't have an up to date as built set of plans on that plant out there?
Suihkonen: Not at this time. We're working on putting that together right now.
Bird: Okay, that's great. You answered by question there. Item A request for extended
overhead. Were they paid extra to redo that blow out?
Suihkonen: Initially they were paid, we had to take some emergency measures to keep
the basins on line. We did pay them for that. Then we had to do some additional
anchoring and sealing at the beginning of the project. Now these cost that we're looking
at now are in addition — those remediations were done when we were doing the new
basins extending off the old basins, but when we went to take the old basins down or
the existing basins down, we were better able to evaluate the damage that was done to
that join and we could visually get pretty close to it and see that there was a significant
amount of damage and at that time that was when we decided to hey we need to
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 43
support this so that workers can get in there and then we were able to get in there and
put some remediation measures —
Bird: But they were paid extra to do all that.
Suihkonen: Yes.
Bird: And their overhead was included in that extra? So why are we being billed for
extended overhead?
Suihkonen: They're allowed for a change order item under the terms of the contract,
they're allowed 15% for overhead and profit, however, they're also allowed extended
overhead for equipment you know the additional time, the equipment, the
superintendents has to be there. That's what this is. This is on top. I guess the fact
that well the original change order was the work actually done plus an allowance for
15% overhead and profit but the specifications also allow them extended overhead for
superintendent's time. Basically the project ended up going two more months than they
anticipated.
Bird: But then they wound up being over anyway.
Suihkonen: Right. The extended overhead is just for the period that we've given them
the extension on. It's not for the period of liquidated damages.
Bird: I can't believe in this $24,000 or what they were paid for that extra that that
superintendent and all that equipment wasn't figured in their cost in the overhead and
profit was put on top of that, their 15%.
Suihkonen: You know I think we have a pretty long discussion with the contractor on
this issue, and we've gone back and forth with the contractor. The contractor wanted
substantially more. We felt it should be less. I think as a matter, we basically have
come to this amount as a reasonable settlement to the contractor for that extended
overhead.
Bird: That's all I had.
Anderson: Couple of questions of Dennis. Could you explain the trough failure for me,
what was that and what caused that?
Suihkonen: The aeration basin structure, the flow comes off the end of the structure
and drops into what's called the affluent trough and runs down the end of the trough and
then goes out a pipeline and runs over to the clarifiers. The existing condition before
the contractor started construction, there was two foot of back fill against the trough.
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 44
There was pretty minimal load in the trough. There was about three foot of water in the
trough. In looking at the existing drawings, the rebar that was there was adequate, but
what happened is that when they placed the rebar, the rebar was placed to the exterior
of the wall so there was no tension resistance on the rebar and so when they took that
back fill away, it just rotated down and it not only rotated down and the trough wall fell,
but it caused some impact failure where the exterior wall of the basin also started to
rotate out so it started pulling away so when we had to go — there was a big crack
developed there so when we went into the existing basin to try and work in there, there
was a large flow flowing because we had to keep one basin on line. Well we took the
other one down. There was a large flow flowing between that crack so we couldn't get
anybody in there to work plus it was unsafe anyway. Basically that's what happened,
but —
Anderson: It almost seems though like that maybe the design or an engineering
problem the fact that that should have been supported. You know you had known you
were digging, taking the fill dirt out away from beside that that somebody should have
done something to (End of Tape)
Anderson: ...along beside that.
Suihkonen: Well it was a case where I think the load was so low for the water in that
trough and looking at the rebar, the rebar looked to be adequate from where it was
placed. The problem was when they initially put the rebar in, it was supposed to be in
the center of the wall. Instead it was way off to the — you could see when the wall
rotated down, you could see where the rebar had been placed and it was right at the
very edge so it had no restraining resistance so I think it was — I don't know if it was a
design error. I think it was probably an inspection error when that was originally placed
that you know the contractors got rebar in the wrong place.
Anderson: And then maybe you could explain to me we're talking about the 2 x 12
versus the 4 x 12's. Whose decision was it to use 2 x 12's?
Suihkonen: I've got to admit, you know, we discussed that staff and I discussed that
issue and we saw the opportunity for savings and that was my decision to go with the 2
x 12's and I just have to admit that I did not anticipate the warpage would be nearly to
the degree that occurred with pressure treated timbers. It bowed out like four or five
inches in a lot of cases and was just enough those supports were pulling out and come
floating up. So that was something we need to go back and take action to take care of
that. If we would have stuck with the 4 x 12's as we originally had in the design, we
wouldn't have had the degree of warpage that we had and the second we had wider
flange columns which we had more restraining flanges to pull those in place. Like I say,
that was my decision and I didn't anticipate that would happen. It did. I guess it turned
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 45
out that we ended up spending as much as we thought we were going to save by going
to the 2 x 12's.
Bird: Going on with this what did the contractor in the original bid, did they bid the 4 x
12's or the 2 x 12's? Had the change been made prior to bid time?
Suihkonen: Yes. The change was made prior to bid time.
Bird: Okay.
Bentley: Back on the 2 x 12's. You said you went in and reinforced them?
Suihkonen: Right.
Bentley: How do we know that we're not going to have another blow out of the 2 x
12's?
Suihkonen: Well what we did I think they've been in place now for the last couple of
months, and we haven't had any problems, but what we did is we went back in and we
basically took some angle and sandwiched the mid span. We sandwiched those and
bolted them together, pulled them back together to eliminate the warpage. Then we
also went and welded to some six inch by quarter inch plate on each side of the support
to give them more of a web restraining length, so they're in pretty good shape now.
They're not going to come out. They're fine now.
Corrie: Any other questions? Okay so your recommendation is $68,000—what did you
say?
Bird: --96.30.
Corrie: $68,096.30.
Suihkonen: Then the other recommendation was the settlement on the overhead issue
with the contractor for $15,100.
Bird: That isn't part of the change order though, is it? Mr. Mayor we have to enact this
separate deals don't we because it isn't part of the change order, it's a settlement?
Suihkonen: It would an offer that would be made to the contractor. At this point we
have not extended this offer.
Bird: But it isn't part of the change order?
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 46
Suihkonen: No.
Bird: Okay. So we have to enact upon the change order and then on the settlement, is
that not right Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: I would think so. Mr. Gigray, can we even do that?
Gigray: Well I think that what you want to come back to is what is the recommendation
of the engineer at this point is that just to deal with the change orders and to approve
those or are we in a situation where we want to effectuate some kind of global
settlement with the contractors which would include the change orders and the
settlement of their claim for the extended overhead.
Corrie: So you can do both of them one at a time?
Gigray: I guess my question would be what the engineer's recommendation is about
that.
Suihkonen: That's kind of a tough one. I think we probably would be in a little bit better
negotiating position with the contractor if we offered him a lump sum settlement for both
the change order and the delay claim at the same time. Just say this is what we're
settling up with you for.
Bird: Mr. Mayor I got a question then. On a change order, that's backed up document.
The offer for a settlement isn't. First thing we got the change order better have back up
document of how much it cost and the profit and all this kind of stuff. This other thing
we're just throwing out there to see if they will accept it. So I for one am not going to
vote on the same thing the both of them at the same time. I'm for passing the change
order because the contractor has already went to that expense. Our people have
already approved it. This negotiated thing, I don't know if that's — I don't know if I want
to negotiate for $15,100. 1 think I want to see more of their back up on that $24,000
$33,000 than what we've seen. But so I can't see personally that we can vote on both
things at the same time.
Corrie: We certainly don't have to. Any other comments?
Bird: Mr. Mayor I move that we approve change order no. 3 the construction of the
aeration pumping facilities for the sum of $68,096.30 change order 3, which included
that we passed before $21,001.10. But at this time just the $68,096.30.
Anderson: Second.
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 47
Corrie: Motion made and second that we approve the amount of $68,096.30 for change
order no. 3. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion say
aye.
MOTION CARRIED: 3 AYES, 1 NAY.
Corrie: Do you want to go with the other one yet or do you want to have them get back
with us?
Rountree: I just have a question for Dennis. Have you negotiated the settlement on the
delay at all?
Suihkonen: No, Gary and I have basically we received some documentation on the
claim. We discussed the amounts and so forth and basically I've made this
recommendation, but we have not carried this forward to the contractor at this point. So
that's kind of open at this point.
Bird: Dennis one question on that. On their overhead, was it 50 days? Is that what
they said it was overextended?
Suihkonen: Well overall it was 60 calendar days. So we've allowed them.
Bird: And they're saying they had a superintendent on the job that much longer in a
trailer?
Suihkonen: Right trailer, equipment, trucks, whatever.
Bird: I have a hard time swallowing that. I would like to and I hate to do this, because I
know the guys are in the business of construction. They've paid their wages and stuff,
but I would like to see more back up myself on that. The liquidated damages, I don't
have no problem with those. I would like to see more back up on the break out and I
know they have to do that at the jobs.
Suihkonen: We can get that information to you and take it up again the next meeting if
that's what you would like to do.
Bird: I would prefer that. I don't know what the other three Councilmen want to do.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor I would move that we direct Gary and Dennis to continue
discussions with the contractor as it relates to pending delay claim from Turnkey and
bring the additional information they find in their discussions to the Council for
consideration.
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 48
Corrie: Okay, motion do I hear a second?
Bird: I'll second that.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Rountree second by Mr. Bird to get further information
pending on Turnkey, Inc. and bring it back to the Council. Any further discussion?
Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
2. BID AWARD FOR DIGESTER AND CLARIFIER FACILITIES AT THE
WWTP.
Smith: The next item deals with bid results for the digester and clarifier facilities at the
Wastewater Treatment Plant. On May 11 t", we opened bids for that project. Assistant
City Engineer, Brad Watson, has reviewed all the bids submitted for arithmetic and bid
document compliance. He prepared the compilation of bids that you have attached in
your packet. We had four bidders. Turnkey, Incorporated is the low responsible bidder
as meeting all the bid requirements. His bid is $3,114,996.00.
Bird: Mr. Mayor, you want approval for signing the contract?
Smith: Yes, sir.
Bird: I move that we accept Turnkey, Incorporated out of Ontario, Oregon for the
digester and clarifier facilities project for the $3,114,996.00 and for the Mayor to sign
and the Clerk to attest.
Rountree: Second.
Corrie: Motion made and second to accept the Turnkey, Inc. of Ontario in the amount of
$3,114,996.00. Any further discussion? All those in favor of the motion as stated say
aye.
1:11210]WAIRWAY 0]
Smith: Thank you Mr. Mayor and Council.
Bird: Gary, that was good bidding.
Smith: Yes, it was.
Bird: And Keller did an awful good estimate. Thank you.
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 49
Smith: Yes. It was very competitive bids. Thank you.
B. JANICE SMITH:
TREASURER'S UPDATE.
Smith: Mr. Mayor and Councilmen, I submitted the reports on the tops of your desks
late this evening. I wanted to — the summary of our investment first, investment report.
I think Councilman Bentley had some questions last month on the costs. So I included
what our investment agent's costs are monthly so on the second page that shows that.
I know you didn't have as much time to look over it. The second thing, did you have any
questions on that? Okay, the second report I had is the expenditure report which is the
thick packet you received in your box and then just a summary of — is budgeted versus
the actual report. We didn't get this updated ending April, so you might note on there
it's ending 3/31/99. We'll be able to do that by tomorrow morning. It kind of gives you
an idea on per department on the percentage of budget versus the actual expense and
the top page is your revenue where our revenue is coming from. Be it
intergovernmental or franchise fees and also a percentage of the overall budgeted
revenue. We'll be able to get this updated to you every month. I thought this might be
better at a glance. It gives us a two year actual plus the working report that we're
working on this year. More or less we know this is accurate. We're working on the
Dave Eberly report. That was this large one, the 14 inch one. Please note on that,
that's a sample. There's errors in the formulas. We're going to try to get on this budget
summary, I can go back two years and make sure it's accurate, but I don't want to work
any further back. I want to go forward helping the departments with their budgeted for
the year 2000, making sure that their formulas in there, workman's comp and everything
else is correct. So at this time on this Dave Eberly report, we want to just put the trend
report on hold because it needs to be modified for five year trend. It's a thick printout. I
can show it to you at a different time and show you why it's just not working because
otherwise the Mayor's going to be paying the city back to work full time on the trend, five
year trend. I think that we could go more into this depth when we start our budget
workshop and I'll give you all a notebook and tag it. I'll give it to you before the
workshop so you can go through it.
Bentley: Janice, have we received the Idaho Power Franchise Fee yet?
Smith: Yes, we did. I didn't bring it in here. We got it this month.
Bentley: That's for the first quarter.
Smith: We got it in May, yes.
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 50
Bentley: How much was that for?
Smith: Of course I wrote it down and left it in the other room. I can put that in your
boxes tomorrow. I was a —
Bentley: Rough estimate.
Smith: It was a little over half than what we budgeted. We budget right here, $100,000.
So it was over $50,000.
Bentley: And that was for a quarter.
Smith: I have to review that because I thought the date was for a year on the report that
I printed out right before this, but I've been looking at so many dates I'm kind of brain
dead, but I'll include that in your box tomorrow morning. But we did receive those fees.
Bentley: Thank you.
Corrie: Any other comments?
Berg: Mr. Mayor I just have a comment to the question Councilman Bentley asked
Janice. The Idaho Power Franchise payment was from what they collected from
January through March because of their notification of their customers. It didn't go into
effect until then. So actually it was a quarter, but not our fiscal year first quarter. It's
actually our second quarter, so we're only going to get two more payments for this fiscal
year. I didn't think it was — it was like around $40,000 or between 30 and 40,000 1
believe. But their estimates — their advisor estimated that it will be even more during
the summer time because of the energy load in the summer.
Bentley: Okay, thank you.
Smith: Thank you.
Corrie: Any other comments, questions from Council? Thank you, Janice.
C. MAYOR CORRIE:
1. BSU FOUNDATION INFRASTRUCTURE DONATION.
Corrie: John Freden was unable to be here tonight. We had other arrangements at
BSU so he said he would try to see if he could get here the 25th or at least June 1St. If
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 51
you have any specific questions, I gave Mr. Rountree some of the booklets. He's
looking at them now. It's a lot of material.
Rountree: I will pass them down the line to anybody who wishes to look at them. But
what it's showing me is yes, they've done something that appears to be of value to the
city and the valley, so I'm pretty much convinced that it's probably something we ought
to play.
Bird: Let's go for it.
Rountree: There's some good stuff there. I think everybody ought to get an opportunity
to look at it. As soon as I peruse it, I'll get it to you or give you the opportunity anyway.
Bird: You want to wait until June 1 st to act on it? I have a pretty good feel for it. I think
it's —
Corrie: We can discuss it on Tuesday.
Bird: We can certainly do that.
Rountree: I just as soon everybody be comfortable so if you're not comfortable at this
point, we can defer it.
Corrie: (Inaudible)
Rountree: Probably don't need it.
2. THERMAL IMAGING DEVICE FUND RAISING BY
FIREFIGHTERS ASSOCIATION.
Corrie: The reason I asked that is I want you fellows to be thinking about the comment
that — the question that the fire department people asked that would the city be willing to
match or give some monies to the fire fighters for the donation for the thermal imaging
device. We need to think about that what you want to do. You can discuss that
Tuesday night as well. I just wanted to bring it to your attention and maybe Ron has
some ideas on it or he can (inaudible) you guys as well, but it was requested that the
city make donation.
Anderson: Can I comment on that? I talked to them tonight and it sounds like totally
they've raised about $14,000 out of the total of the $25,000 that's needed to purchase
that, and there's a number of community organizations, Downtown Merchants
Association, a number of events that are planned during Dairy Days as well as a four
wheeler that they're trying to raffle off to raise funds. So I would recommend that we
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 52
maybe pick a dollar figure and offer that if the city is going to do that versus I've heard
comments of something like well maybe we could finish out whatever they don't have. If
you do something like that, you're going to destroy the fund raising efforts that are
continued to be for the next couple of months. So I would like to see us pick a dollar
figure if we're going to do that and throw out that number and that would be greatly
appreciated and would help them out considerably. The unit has been ordered. They
paid a down payment out of that $14,000 so that they could save $1200 by ordering it
early. So it is ordered. It's just a matter of they've got to continue to collect the funds to
be able to do that and right now they're projecting at the current rate and the other
events they have organized it will probably be somewhere in July or August before they
could order it.
Bird: If they had the money, Ron, could they take receipt upon it right now? Is it ready
to be shipped or just waiting for the full payment?
Anderson: From the time you place the orders, there's a bill time and it depends on
how many orders are ahead of you. It typically takes a month or two to get them out.
Bird: Do they have a delivery date so that we can make sure that we do have the
$25,000 raised somehow?
Anderson: They don't have a delivery date yet. They have to pay it off before they ship
it.
Bird: They have to have the money there before they get it delivery date?
Anderson: Yeah, they just placed the order and guaranteed it with a down payment,
yeah.
Bird: But let me ask you a question. Have they started the process, is it in the process
of being manufactured?
Anderson: No, it wouldn't be —
Bird: It won't be until they're paid completely off?
Anderson: Yeah.
Corrie: Is this the helmet type?
Anderson: Yeah.
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 53
Bird: Oh man, let me — I might be able to help you — I'm like Ron, I'd like to see us give
a dollar amount, I don't know how much we got extra in the fire budget or if we do. I'm
like Ron, let's don't match anything. Let's just get an amount and get it done. Is the
association going to own this when it is in or is it going to be city?
Anderson: I would imagine they would probably give that to the city because of the on
going cost of maintenance. I know that the association just contributed $4,000 of their
own money towards the cost of the Meridian Firemen's Association.
Bird: But you're telling me that they won't start processing until we send the "x" amount
of dollars. Make a motion, put something in it.
Bentley: Mr. Mayor, personally I think we just should have bought it out right to begin
with, and my feeling is —
Rountree: I agree. If we need it, we should have bought it.
Bentley: We should have bought it out right. I don't think we should have had to go out
and do this. I feel the public pays enough that they could have handled that. But my
feeling is whatever they come up short on this, we pay for it and we turn around and
budget for the second one for the other station.
Rountree: Well there's a good side to this too Mr. Bentley. I think that this gives the
association some pride and working with the community and I give them all the credit in
the world and I really appreciate their effort. With that said, I would move that — boy I
hate to throw water on their efforts. I would move that the City of Meridian contribute
$5,000 to the purchase of the fire safety helmet.
Bird: I would second that.
Bentley: Discussion.
Rountree: Thermal imaging device.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Rountree second by Mr. Bird to donate $5,000 city funds to
help purchase the thermal imagining device. Discussion?
Bentley: Yes, we do have to remember too now that the funds are starting to come in
from the Idaho Power Franchise Fee that those funds are available both jointly to police
and fire, so the funds are readily available to help with Kenny's budget for something
like this too.
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 54
Gigray: Just a point of information Mr. Mayor and Council, because we do have the
joint exercise power agreement with the rural, when this is purchase somebody ought to
inquire the firefighters as to whether their donation for the purchase of this would be
partly to the rural and to the city so we inventory it in because we're doing that now with
all new equipment whether this is city equipment or it's partially city and rural. However
you want to do it. I just — it's just a clarification that should happen.
Bird: I just want to compliment the association the firemen. I think this is part of being a
community is what they've gone out and done. They've raised the money and stuff like
that. Ron says they got about 14. We give them another five. That's 19. 1 think we
can find real fast. My main concern is to get the thing paid for and on its way.
Corrie: Yeah, I think it's good to have the buy in with the community as well though.
They are.
Bird: It's a community effort. That's the great thing about it.
Anderson: And that was a comment that I was going to make. I mean this is a very
expensive piece of equipment, it's a unique piece of equipment, it's kind of a high tech
thing, but at the time when the budgets were being prepared last year, that really hadn't
been broached and we had a lot of other pressing needs that we needed to do so I
commend the firefighters and I commend the community and I think it has been a great
event and a great fund raising deal and I think the community can speak with pride that
they've stepped forward and a number of businesses and individuals have really made
this happen and I think that's something that we can all be proud of and in the future if
additional ones are needed, then the fire department look at funding those, but I don't
think it's a black eye or any shame on this that this was a community fund raising event,
and I think it's been a very successful one.
Bird: Plus someone will win the four wheeler.
Bentley: You don't have the right ticket. I wasn't — I didn't mean for my comments to
come across against the public. I think it's great that they've all chipped in and the fire
department has worked hard to get that done, but my feeling is still the same. You
know I think we should have just jumped and bought and moved on.
Corrie: Any other comments? Okay we have a motion on the floor. So all those in
favor of donating $5,000 from the city for the fund raising thermal imaging device say
aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 55
3. DISCUSSION OF STREET NAME CHANGE OF EAST 1 ST
STREET.
Corrie: One of the things I just want to bring your attention that I think the signage is
being taken care of by ACHD. I got word from Mr. Little it's going to be about a $1400
fee for the different signs, and I just wanted to inform you about the letter that I got. I
gave you each of copy of that one.
Bentley: I thought and the point of his letter and I spoke with him yesterday is he wants
to continue Meridian Road in an orderly fashion on across. He stated that he was the
signage proposal that he had was for Overland Road and I thought we pretty much
decided that it was going to break off at Central right where it dumps in, and evidently
he didn't get that feeling. He was thinking we were going to Overland with Main Street
and that wasn't the intent.
Bird: That's the one that I got down when we had that afternoon meeting. I kind of took
it we was going to Overland. Charlie is the one that I think was discussing that.
Rountree: Well —
Bird: Wasn't main going all the way to Overland?
Rountree: Yeah, I think it was going to go all the way to Overland because that's really
where E. 1 st goes.
:3R•"WIM, 011111
Rountree: If you don't take it to there, then what does that piece become? Meridian or
does it stay E. 1 st or —
Bentley: My intent was that Main Street would pick up at Central and go through town
where Meridian even though it's not a straight line would carry on across because
Meridian Road goes to Kuna. That's what their ACHD's idea is. Because otherwise
you're going to have Meridian Road coming up to Overland then it's going to change to
Main Street. Then you're going to pick up Meridian Road again off of Central.
Rountree: No, that's state highway 69 at Overland south that's the state highway. You
can call it what you want.
Bentley: That's the state highway, but that's not what it says on the signs. It says
Meridian Road all the way out there. I'm talking on the part, he's talking state highway.
It says Meridian Road.
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 56
Rountree: On the cross street signing?
Bird: But then there's signs sitting down Glenn that says state highway 69.
Bentley: Well yeah, but there's a highway sign that says 20 and 30 both.
Anderson: (Inaudible)
Bentley: That's right, but they were looking to keep Meridian Road flowing instead of a
break in the middle of it. Because you get travelers coming into town, they're looking for
Meridian Road and they are going to say where does it start and where does it stop?
Rountree: We've got Fairview Avenue and Cherry Lane. Same thing going that
direction. Main is going to stop at Overland and Meridian will start.
Bentley: The south side is going to be in two different places with a break in between.
So they're looking for some direction on where we want to start it at.
Corrie: South Main Street starts at Franklin and goes south.
Bentley: South Meridian will be in two places with a break in between.
Rountree: Yeah, you're worried about delivering mail.
Bentley: You had two of them in here tonight so you better be careful.
Corrie: Well what do you want them to do on the signage so we can tell them. Do you
want to go to Overland Road? Stop Meridian Road right there at Main Street.
Rountree: Ron has got the coin. It could be Main Street from the on/off ramps. But
then you still have the break in Meridian Road.
Bird: Overland Road at Overland Road you start your highway 69, Idaho State Highway
69.
Rountree: What are those addresses for those folks have?
Bentley: Well south breaks the railroad tracks.
Bird: Yeah, I know that, but what is from Overland, south Meridian Road? Like JB's
would be S. Main now?
Bentley: Yeah, if you do it that way.
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 57
Corrie: (Inaudible)
Bentley: I mean they're all going to have to change their addresses you know no
matter where you stop, whoever is on that.
Anderson: If you broke it at Corporate, probably at McDonald's probably (inaudible)
Bentley: I don't know what their address is.
Bird: I think they both are on Meridian, them and Chevron both because they face out
to the west.
Bentley: Most of those businesses wouldn't want Corporate addresses. They would
request coming out on the main road.
Bird: I know Chevron has —
Rountree: These are the things that really cause big problems for the postal service.
Bentley: It don't matter because they all have to put in change of addresses anyway,
but I'm thinking about people coming into town to give them a little better flow.
Corrie: People are going to come to town, make the thing straight Main Street all the
way to Overland and turn right or left and you're still on Main Street. I mean Meridian
Road is going to stop somewhere.
Bird: I thought we were going to Overland.
Corrie: I did too.
Rountree: Yeah, I thought that was continuity in Main Street, which was our intent.
Bentley: If that's what you want. That's the direction they're looking for. They just need
to know where it's going to start and stop.
Corrie: Okay.
Bird: You going to put that in a motion, Charlie?
Rountree: Mr. Mayor I move that we instruct ACHD to sign Meridian's new Main Street
from Cherry Lane south to Overland Road.
Bird: Second.
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 58
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Rountree second by Mr. Bird to start Main Street from
Cherry Lane on the north to Overland Road on the south. Any further discussion? All
those in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
4. DISCUSSION OF CHERRY LANE LOCAL IMPROVEMENT
DISTRICT.
Corrie: I had a discussion with several home owners out there. I had a discussion with
Mr. Gigray and he suggested that maybe he'd look into the possibilities of LID's and
what are some of the possibilities we have out there. One of the home owners had got
an agreement with Nampa Meridian that he could put his fence all the way out to three
foot of the sidewalk and got an agreement there. Some of the others didn't want that,
so that's why they didn't get the agreement because Nampa Meridian said they to sign
the agreement for everybody to — for the easement so I just wanted to bring it up that
I'm getting a lot of pressure to clean that up out there. I think Mr. Gigray had a pretty
good idea that he could look into what the things the city could do, where they could go,
maybe talk with Nampa Meridian and see where they will let us put whatever type of
program you want out there. So that's what I'm bringing up for discussion to see what
you would like to have done, but we need to do something.
Bird: Mr. Mayor, didn't we already have an LID out there or did we —
Corrie: It fell through.
Bird: Did we just — that's what happened it fell through so it's not effective or anything
any more?
Corrie: No. Because of the agreement they wouldn't all 100% agree on the Nampa
Meridian Irrigation easements.
Bird: And I understand their homeowners association in the first part is not a mandatory
Corrie: No.
Rountree: (Inaudible)
Corrie: People out there be willing to do an LID or whatever they can chip in to get it
done and I've had the president of the homeowners association of number 3, 4, and 5
said that they agreed that they would like to see that done, and they would do whatever
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 59
they could as well. I didn't get any monetary value out of it or costs, but they are all out
there wanting to do something to change that entrance.
Bird: In an LID Mayor, does that affect only the people on the first street or would that
affect the whole subdivision including 3 and 4 and that?
Corrie: Okay, Mr. Gigray?
Gigray: Mr. Mayor and members of the Council, LID's and I've done a number of them,
you will at some point declare what the benefited area is by the LID, which determines
what the assessments would be and who would be assessed and of course you do a
resolution of intention to create, you give notice of that. People can come in and
comment about it and then once you create it, there's still yet another process that goes
by where people can lobby saying they're not benefited or whatever. But I would
propose to do would be to look at this file, look what was done before, find out where
the problems were. I would work with Gary on what city properties we have and what it
looks like easement wise and otherwise so that we could then maybe staff this and
come back to you with some recommendations about what you could do.
Bird: What kind of time frame are we looking at on that Mr. Gigray?
Gigray: I would say two weeks would a push, a month would be pretty easy to do.
Bird: And then if we accept that, what are we talking about LID? How long to get an
LID passed or something like that?
Gigray: Well I think to think that putting an LID together in less than about three months
to meet all the statutory requirements for the creation of the petition. The other thing that
you have to determine and that is how are you going to fund it? If this is — you have to
fund it either through some kind of revenue bonding procedure which really takes a long
time or if you have the monies allocated within your budgets for which you will pay this
up front and then bill on the assessments. My experience with that process is through
highway districts which have budgeted monies and cities have budgeted monies for say
sidewalk improvements for voluntary LID's and then we go through a process and then
it's already funded. You let the contract and then it's built and then you assess for
repayment. If you have to go outside of your own budget for those monies, then you
have to plug in the bonding revenue bonding part and then we're in a whole lot longer
delay, and so I just don't know — I assume this is a small project. We'd have to check
the city budget as to where we fund it out of or maybe even include it in next year's
budget. I don't know, but that would depend on the time table —
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 60
Bird: The Mayor's budget. No, seriously is there any other solution? See you talking
about if we go that route, it's winter time and from what I've read in the press and some
people I've talked to, I don't think they want to go through summer with it like that.
Gigray: I would say if they wish to do something sooner than that, then the property
owners would be best advised that they ought to figure out a solution in house.
Corrie: We went through that. I think the people out there, not speaking for everybody,
but if they realize that they're getting something done, if it takes six months before next
year to have it done, I think that's what they're asking. They want something done out
there. We have not done anything for the last six years and I think Charlie has been
getting calls and I know I have and we've been talking about this.
Gigray: It involves some engineering because you need to have some advice from
experts about what a benefited area is, what should be included in the LID, what lands
are in it, what lands are not in it, who's assessed, what the amounts are and you just
don't put those together over night and have them work.
Bentley: Mr. Mayor I think it would just be best if Mr. Gigray come up with some options
and bring it back to us.
Corrie: Any comments? Mr. Rountree?
Rountree: I guess given the amount of that interest that's there, it seems to me the LID
we had in place previously was the correct way to go. We just got in difficulty with the
inability of each and every property owner entering into some kind of agreement with
Nampa Meridian. I see that as a problem no matter how we go, whether it's voluntary
or involuntary LID to get the property owners to agree to enter some kind of an
arrangements with Nampa Meridian. I don't see the irrigation district so much as a
problem any more, but just the idea that this is a way for those property owners who
didn't want to do anything in the first place to not have to do anything. But having said
that I think that I agree with Council that have him look into it, see where the loop holes
were and what we did before and what we might do differently and whether it's
voluntary or involuntary, get some action going, get some kind of an improvement out
there that's uniform.
Corrie: Okay, Mr. Gigray, if you would do that.
Gigray: More than happy to.
Corrie: Anybody got anything pertinent they want to discuss?
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 61
Gigray: Just a bit of information Mr. Mayor. We have the comp workbook and it's
assembled together in two nice tidy volumes and there are a few questions yet to go
through and we'll get it back and we'll get that thing done and get it to you for your
consideration.
Corrie: I'm working on the seal. I've got some and I'll put them in your boxes what they
are and then I think the two weeks is up staff's comments and then we'll bring it back to
you the first.
Bentley: Just one question, when are we going to get back on the discussion on the full
time Mayor position?
Corrie: Oh, yeah.
Rountree: We could probably given time next Tuesday start up again, but I think we
need to get some idea of what our next step is going to be in terms of additional public
involvement or not. Depending on that, it's a matter of getting something on the agenda
and looking at Bill has provided us some guidance in terms of what might need to be
done as far as ordinance and resolution change. We need to give him a sense of which
direction to go there, so I would think that we need some clear direction on how we want
to proceed. We can hopefully get some consensus on the 25t". What all you want to
do, whether you just want to bring it up as an action item and get Bill going on a
resolution or whether we want to have another meeting per the request of the Chamber.
Bentley: Yeah, because Chamber was going to submit something to us.
Rountree: Yeah, I haven't seen anything from Doug yet. I know their committee has
met. I don't know if Bob has seen anything from that.
Corrie: I haven't seen it. I'll find out.
Bentley: I think we should you know they want to put some input in and I think we
should let them.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor I have a couple of things here. Actually I have quite a few. I
thought we'd be out of here earlier tonight so I'm not going to hit most of them, but on
the 8t" if you will recall we had this solid waste clean up day in Meridian. It was in my
opinion a major success (End of Tape)
Rountree: ...or was in the city that was delivered that day, but it was phenomenal to
stand there and see the kinds of things and the volumes of things people had in their
cars to get rid of. Just several of those instances were instant reminder of the value of
these kinds of things to the city and our land fill. I would like to have the city a letter of
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 62
appreciation to Sanitary Services. They funded the event along with Ada County who
provided the cost of disposal of this material and Ada County Highway District who
participated in helping us support this event as well so if we could get letters to all three
of those entities, I think it would be good on our part to recognize their part in this. They
actually were part of the advertisement. Their names along with the city's were on the
banners. I was really surprised. Comments from the people to a person was this is a
great thing. You need to do it more. Probably maybe not more, but at least have this
kind of thing every year and then we got all kinds of strange comments when people
were asked are they any other kinds of programs the city could do meaning in the solid
waste arena but we got some great comments and I want to get those summaries from
SSC. I think you'll get a kick out of some of the stuff that people said. Anyway that's
one thing. I think we all got copies of the letter from Mr. Ruddell and probably all of you
have had phone calls. Per that letter, I would like to have City Attorney draft a response
to that letter specifically stating what the city has done, where that particular activity is
and let's just wrap it up and get it over with so we don't have to have any more phone
calls, Mr. Mayor, I think you would appreciate that.
Corrie: Just so you know what I did, he called here about five time and then he sent me
a letter stating what I said, and I didn't even talk to him and I got real irritated at that and
then he kept calling and so I called Bob McQuaid and he put a stop to that program so
you shouldn't get any phone calls from him. If you do, let me know particularly if it's
during the day.
Bird: When did you call him?
Corrie: When did I call Bob? I called Bob McQuaid last week. Are you still getting
phone calls from Greg?
Bird: I'd hate to pay his cellular bill.
Corrie: Okay, is it during the day?
Bird: No, no.
Rountree: I haven't had one recently either. Good job.
Gigray: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Rountree, and members of the Council, just to give you
an idea of what our style has been. Occasionally we've had some matters referred from
Planning and Zoning administrator's office and others where persons have disagreed
maybe with what they have proposed. My style and my advice is I always work with
department heads that I believe has the responsibility and I always want to honor that
responsibility and I don't want to get the city attorney's office to be some kind of venue
that people think that they can go get an opinion from the city attorney that's going to
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 63
maybe go their way and kind of sway the administrator, so I want to honor in all regard.
We're working on a couple of other projects with them now. Basically what we've
worked on is that in circumstances where for instance if a developer thinks that they are
entitled to some kind of hearing on something and staff's position that it isn't entitled to
one, then what I've encouraged them to do is to have that reported to the Planning and
Zoning Commission as a motion much like we treat the legal motions here, which we've
had a hearing. Then the Commission can make a decision whether or not they want to
have a hearing on it or not or notice it for a public hearing. I haven't read this, but I'll be
more than happy to respond to this, but I wanted to let you know what my style is here
and how I like to operate and so I would move in that fashion to try to direct this where I
think it needs to go.
Rountree: Well the signature could be Planning and Zoning, but it needs to be herded
by you in terms of let's get it wrapped up.
Gigray: As long as you are comfortable with that, I'll just grab the ball and run with it.
The last thing I have is that I've not seen a letter to the fire union related to the issues
that we talked about a couple of weeks ago.
Corrie: (Inaudible) I'll get you a copy.
Rountree: Okay, please do.
Corrie: I talked with IEC and got that cleared up and I got the letter.
Anderson: (Inaudible)
Corrie: Did you get a memo that you signed?
Anderson: No, I got this from Kenny.
Corrie: You need to sign it and give it to —
Anderson: And I told him that I wouldn't sign that. I didn't feel that was a proper
response so I've taken the liberty of drafting what I would consider a proper response
and I have copies of that and maybe you guys could look at this and see what you think.
Gigray: Is this something that will come before the Council at some point in appellate
realm because if it does, you may not want to comment about it.
Corrie: No.
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 64
Gigray: To remain impartial with regards to your ability to make a decision later on. I
don't know that.
Corrie: (Inaudible)
Anderson: I know I don't want to sign that one.
(Inaudible)
Bird: When was the original letter sent out?
Anderson: There hasn't been one sent out.
Corrie: (Inaudible). Why would this come from me? The letter wasn't to me. It was to
you. Rick's response was to you, not to me. So why did this letter come from me?
Anderson: Well why did this one come from me? In our Executive Session we talked
about that you were going to draft them a letter from the city.
Corrie: No.
Anderson: That's how I understood it.
Corrie: No, the understanding was that you got that from agreements —
Rountree: We need to follow procedure.
Corrie: That's right, this is not procedure and neither is that. The agreements thing was
given to you, not to me. So you need to send this letter, not me.
Anderson: Our official position is that we've never received a letter.
Bird: I think we need to be discussing in Executive Session, not out here in the public.
Rountree: Well if we haven't sent a letter, we need to get on it. That was my question.
Gigray: You just want to follow procedure of whatever it is, because that will dictate
how you respond.
Bird: This is following procedure. Now whether the Mayor signs it or the Councilman
that is in charge of the fire department. It should be the Mayor, shouldn't it? Do you
agree with that letter, Mayor?
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 18, 1999
PAGE 65
Corrie: (Inaudible) All right I see (inaudible). I follow you.
(Inaudible)
Rountree: Last thing, 6:30 the 25th workshop. Bob is going to be a little late. We'll try to
keep it short, but we've got at least three maybe four things on the agenda. The biggest
item is going to be the budget workshop portion of that.
Corrie: Anything else?
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: That's okay Bill? (Inaudible) Motion to adjourn.
Bird: Second.
Rountree: Yep.
Corrie: All those in favor of the motion to adjourn say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 11:11 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
APPROVE:
ROBERT D. CORRIE, MAYOR
ATTEST:
WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., CITY CLERK