HomeMy WebLinkAbout1999 03-02MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING MARCH 2. 1999
The regular meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:30 p.m. on
March 2, 1999 by Mayor Corrie.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Ron Anderson, Keith Bird, Glenn Bentley, Charlie Rountree.
OTHERS PRESENT: Mayor Bob Corrie, Will Berg, Bill Gigray, Bill Gordon, Gary Smith,
Kenny Bowers, Shari Stiles.
Corrie: I want to welcome everybody here this evening and thank you for coming.
Sorry we're a little late. We had a pre -council meeting with some parents at 6:30. 1
want to welcome Troop 129 here tonight and also Troop 72 here tonight, so thank you
for coming and hope we enlighten you on some of the Council's work. And also
welcome to all the other folks here this evening as well. One of the things that I did
want to remind you of tomorrow at March 3 at 3:00 is the enough is enough bell ringing
for 33 seconds at 3:00, so if you are all inclined to do that we would like to see you do
that. If somebody would like to come down to city hall, we're going to be ringing the bell
at 3:00 and I believe the Chief is going to supply a car down here with a loud speaker to
kind of do some of the bell ringing here as well. Council you have the consent agenda
in front of you. Items A, B, C and D. Excuse me. I've got two C's here. What is your
pleasure on the consent agenda?
Bird: Mr. Mayor I move that we pass items A, B, C and D on the consent agenda.
Rountree: Second.
Corrie: Motion is made by Mr. Bird second by Mr. Rountree to approve the consent
agenda A, B, C and D. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the
motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
1. PRESENTATION OF RESULTS OF THE HEALTHWISE COMMUNITIES PROJECT
BY AMY HANNISH:
Hannish: My name is Amy Hannish, and I'm Nancy's assistant. I'm a health educator
for Healthwise and Nancy couldn't be here this evening so I'm in her place and I would
like to share here with you the results of our communities project. I'm hoping everyone
has a book like this at home, Healthwise Handbook. We mailed these books out in
1996 as you may know as we started our three year Healthwise Communities project
bring to you some of our incredible successes that we've had with this project. This
project extended through four Idaho Counties. It was Ada, Boise, Elmore, and Valley
Counties. Our services included this Healthwise Handbook to all of those households,
so every household got a book and we sent out over 32,000 Healthwise Handbooks
throughout those four counties, and within Ada County — I'm sorry we sent out over
143,000 books, and 127,000 of those were in Ada County. Then our nurses from the
Healthwise line have answered over 32,000 calls. So we've had great success with
those as well. If you've ever used an information station over at the Meridian Public
Library or if you've been in to Boise in that area, we have something called the
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March 2, 1999
Page 2
Healthwise knowledge base. It's a consumer health information data base. It's
extremely helpful, it's 30,000 pages worth of health information and we also have that
on the internet and we've had great success with that. We've had over 16,000 users on
those information stations in the libraries and physicians' clinics. The website gets
about 400 hits a day. So our goal was to make the residents of Ada, Boise, Elmore and
Valley Counties the most educated and empowered health care consumers in the State
of Idaho and across the nation. We've had an incredible impact on the lives of people.
Oregon Health Science University has been studying our communities project and 62%
of people that have used the book saved themselves a trip to the doctor's office,
because they were able to treat their problem at home when they would have gone into
the physician's clinic. And 71 % of people that have used the Healthwise Handbook
have saved themselves a trip to the emergency room, which is very costly. So to put
this in dollar amounts, we have saved these four counties an estimate of about 14
million dollars in a three year period. They had a low estimate of about 7 million dollars
and a high estimate of about 21.5 million dollars so we've saved the people in our
community a considerable amount of money. We have also presented self care
workshops that includes using the book and we've presented these workshops to
various community groups and we've had a great presence in the faith community
especially here in Meridian. 590 junior high and high school students have attended
these workshops and that comes to an overall of about 17,000 people just in Ada
county that have attended these workshops and seen what the Healthwise Handbook
can do for them, and at that time if they didn't have a handbook at home, we gave them
one so that they could take and use it. So we've had incredible successes and we far
exceeded our goals that we had set. We estimated that we would save the community
9 million dollars. Again, it turned into about 14 million dollars. The return on investment
that we got from our sponsors was about 4 to 1. So for every one dollar that the
sponsors spent for our communities, it was returned $4 in savings. So that's a
substantial amount. I welcome any questions as well.
Anderson: Mr. Mayor I have one. We had all this tremendous success. Where do we
go from here now? Are you going to keep it going?
Hannish: Well actually the Healthwise Communities project is ending on March 31St
which is why I'm here to present to you our successes. The good news is we were
originally suppose to end on August 31St of 1998 and we were able to extend it this extra
six months. So that is a great accomplishment. Unfortunately we are not able to
extend it beyond that, but the Healthwise knowledge base that's on the internet will
continue to be on the internet and it will still be free to the community. If anyone cares
to write that address down, I can say it for you.
Anderson: Go ahead.
Hannish: It's www.ivillage.healthwise.com. Healthwise, Inc. will continue to produce
this incredible health information. They are actually coming out with I believe a 13th
edition of the Healthwise Handbook in May, and they will continue to update that
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March 2, 1999
Page 3
healthwise knowledge base. They update it quarterly so it's very up to date current
health information. Again about 30,000 pages were in every update, there's more
information new topics. So it's great information for our community and our community
has used it. They've become more educated. They've become more empowered and
they have learned how to work in partnership more with their physicians. So we've had
a great impact.
Bentley: I think it's a great program that you put together. My wife is a nurse and she's
even delved into the book to get some answers too and she was pretty impressed with
the organization of it. So thank you.
Hannish: It's a great book. This book is written to a seventh grade level, so it's useful
for — I go into high schools and junior highs and show the kids how to use the books and
tell them that they have them at home. A lot of those kids baby-sit and they can resolve
the problems with children by using this book and a lot of kids approach me after the
class and they said I never got a book. Can I take one home with me? Or where can I
get it? So it's great to offer those services and know that we're reaching people and
that they welcome the health information, welcome that education.
Anderson: Is the primary reason it's not being continued because of the sponsorship
then?
Hannish: Well originally we had gotten about 2.1 million dollars from the Robert Wood
Johnson Foundation. And then local corporations matched that amount. Blue Cross
and Blue Shield contributed a very substantial amount to that fund so that we were able
to have 4.2 million dollars for the three year project. We did not get a renewal of the
Robert Wood Johnson Foundation money, and some of the local sponsors were not
able to contribute what we were asking due to their bottom lines, so that the project
could exist as we know it.
Anderson: Thank you. I applaud you for your efforts.
Hannish: Thank you. Thank you for giving me this time this evening. Continue to use
your Healthwise Handbook.
Corrie: I've got mine. Before we go to item two, I would like the Council to on the
department reports to add Councilman Bentley. He wants to have a discussion on the
Meridian Road bridge so we'll have that as item E.
2. FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW: REQUEST FOR
ANNEXATION AND ZONING OF 12.21 ACRES BY MERIDIAN JOINT SCHOOL
DISTRICT NO. 2 — WEST SIDE OF EAGLE ROAD BETWEEN FAIRVIEW &
USTICK ROAD:
Corrie: I invite staff's comments and we'll start with Shari. I'm sorry Mr. Gigray
Gigray: Thank you Mr. Mayor and members of the Council, I'll do the staff report since
this is merely the adoption of Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law, excuse me.
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March 2, 1999
Page 4
Adoptions of Findings and Conclusions. We prepared these as a result of your action
on February the 16th. The main issue which was presented to the Council for which this
matter was delayed by a number of public hearings and continuances had to do
specifically with the access question. As you go through you will see the findings
include those parts of the record which were established and I understood were not
contested. The specific one dealing with access that you want to review here is 17.1.
That language is included as being a consideration of government subdivision in order
to — so that this development will not impose expense upon the public as a condition.
And then we've repeated that finding at 19.3 and that is the finding that deals with if the
development is allowed, what can be done to minimize hazard or disturbance to
neighboring properties. And then we've included as 3.1 of your Decision and Order as
a condition of annexation and the development agreement at page 19. Basically what it
provides is that the site is currently landlocked, that access to the site is proposed and
shall be contingent upon the applicant obtaining right-of-way and constructing a public
road which right-of-way shall also be used as public utilities in accordance with the
standards of the Ada County Highway District, which public road shall be in and run
adjacent to the northwest boundary of the real property to the south of the subject
property a distance efficient to provide access to the public street within the Packard
Subdivision with accordance with the approved plat thereof which is located in the
parcel to the southwest of the subject property and as an emergency access only to the
subject property from Eagle Road subject to Ada County Highway District requirements.
The access location shall also be considerate of the residents of the Carol Subdivision
to the north and shall not be adjacent to their lots. Adequate pedestrian and bicycle
access shall also be needed to provide to the site and I drafted this in relationship to
your motion at the last Council meeting. Given the testimony that was provided and
evidence and I believe it came through and was uncontested that the appropriate
location that had been identified by the school district representatives by their
developers as well as by approval of staff and public works was that access way along
that particular at that particular location which would then funnel into the Packard
Subdivision.
Corrie: Thank you Counselor. Shari you called me this afternoon and I think we need
to have a discussion of what's going on here. We may have to do something.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, I have received calls from the architect, Darrell Leatham
and Jim Carberry today about some discussions they've had with Ada County Highway
District and the Idaho Transportation Department requiring a public road be constructed
to Eagle Road to access this site and the 80 acres to the south. I have not heard that
personally from either Ada County Highway District or the Idaho Transportation
Department. This is in a location that coincides with the requirement for a public road
from the Eagle corridor study. However I believe the way the findings are written is
more than adequate to take care of that.
Corrie: Any further discussion on the Findings of Facts?
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March 2, 1999
Page 5
Rountree: I have none.
Bird: None.
Corrie: Then I will entertain a motion on the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor I move that we approve the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of
Law and the Decision and Order for the requested annexation and zoning.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Rountree second by Mr. Bird to approve the Findings of
Fact and Conclusions of Law and the Order. Any further discussion?
ROLL CALL VOTE: BIRD, YEA. ANDERSON, YEA. ROUNTREE, YEA. BENTLEY,
YEA.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL YEAS.
Rountree: Excuse me Mr. Mayor. On that particular item in the Findings of Fact and
Conclusions of Law and Order of Decision there's an indication that a development
agreement would be in order. That needs to be followed up before can request
annexation ordinance.
Gigray: Mr. Mayor with your permission, I'll respond. Members of the Council, we have
gone ahead and prepared a draft of the development agreement as well as a draft of
the annexation ordinance so that that pending action of City Council tonight and we'd be
in a position to submit that to the school district for their — and I think that's been routed
today to the Clerk's office if I'm not mistaken. You haven't? Then she's holding it until
tomorrow then.
Rountree: That's in process. I just want to make sure.
Gigray: Oh, yes.
Rountree: Okay. Thank you.
3. TABLED FROM 2/16/99: CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR 24,560 SQUARE
FOOT OFFICE BUILDING, EQUIPMENT YARD AND GARAGE WITH
SECURITY FENCE (MIDVALLEY BUSINESS PARK) BY HUBBLE
ENGINEERING — NW OF EAGLE ROAD/1-84 INTERCHANGE, WEST OF
TEXACO:
Corrie: Mr. Gigray?
Gigray: Mr. Mayor and members of the Council, just to refresh your memory this matter
was tabled on advice of City Attorney to assure that the annexation ordinance was in
effect and had been published so that the subject real property would be subject to the
ordinances of the City. We had tendered to the Clerk a draft of the recommended
findings and order granting conditional use permit in a transmittal letter of February the
8t" and I believe you have that before you, and if the Clerk can affirm that the ordinance
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March 2, 1999
Page 6
of annexation is in effect and published, my recommendation would be that it would be
proper for you to consider action on this matter.
Corrie: Mr. Clerk can you affirm that?
Berg: Mr. Mayor and members of the Council, the annexation ordinance is recorded by
Ada County and it will be published tomorrow in the newspaper so it has not yet been
published.
Bird: Mr. Mayor we got a memorandum from Mr. Gigyray stating that exact same thing,
and this is going to have to be tabled until March 16t meeting. Am I not true?
Gigray: That's correct.
Corrie: I'll entertain a motion Mr. Bird on the table.
Bird: Mr. Mayor I move that we table the conditional use permit for Midvalley Business
Park until 3/16/99.
Rountree: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bird second by Mr. Rountree to table item number three
until the March 16, 1999 meeting. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in
favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
4. FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW: REQUEST FOR
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING, 1 TRI-
PLEX, AND 4 FOUR-PLEX UNITS FOR PROPOSED SEABURY SUBDIVISION
BY WEST PINE DEVELOPMENT — BETWEEN W. PINE ST & W. BROADWAY
AVE, EAST OF W. FOURTH ST:
Corrie: Mr. Gigray?
Gigray: Mr. Mayor and members of the Council, you have before you a draft findings on
this particular matter. I would advise the Council upon review that we would
recommend a change. One of the issues as you remember had to do with the width of
the driveways. I had originally drafted this and I'm looking at 6.17 of the findings on
page 5. It talks about driveway widths and I see we neglected to delete as required by
ordinance because I remember there was a discussion about the ordinance so what we
would propose I think you could go ahead and move on this if you choose to that we
would if you make this motion change that language to internal driveway widths are
approved as shown. Driveway approaches shall be as required by Ada County
Highway District which will accommodate the proposal that was submitted which I
believe provided for 23 foot widths for those driveways as the testimony was in there,
but we would change the language of that section. That section reappears in the
conditions of the order and then section 6.35 at page 7 we would propose an additional
language in that finding to comply with the plat approval here that would just add what's
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March 2, 1999
Page 7
already there the language if out parcel abutting Broadway Avenue is required to be
part of the final plat, so that would further qualify that condition and I have had an
opportunity to have that reviewed and I think that this language will make those
provisions just a little bit clearer in conditions as follow up and we would recommend
those conditions as they're shown and the Decision and Order we would make the
same changes if you choose to follow that advice.
Corrie: All right thank you. Staff any further comments on this item?
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, I would just add on page 10 of the findings to change the
– on paragraph five that this is an R-15 zone.
Gigray: That's correct.
Corrie: Anything further? Any further discussion on item four? I'll entertain a motion to
approve Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law with the change of language as
prepared by the attorney and Planning and Zoning Administrator.
Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I move that we approve the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of
Law and request for conditional use permit for Seabury Subdivision with the changes
made by Planning and Zoning Director and City Attorney.
Anderson: Second.
Corrie: Motion is made by Mr. Bentley second by Mr. Anderson to approve the Findings
of Fact and Conclusions of Law as changed language. Any further discussion? Hearing
none, roll call vote.
ROLL CALL VOTE: ANDERSON, YEA. BENTLEY, YEA. BIRD, YEA. ROUNTREE,
YEA.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL YEAS.
5. FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW: REQUEST FOR
ANNEXATION & ZONING OF 21.54 ACRES FOR PROPOSED THOUSAND
SPRINGS VILLAGE BY MARTIN DEVELOPMENT INC.—NORTH OF E.
VICTORY ROAD, WEST OF S. EAGLE ROAD:
Corrie: Mr. Gigray
Gigray: Mr. Mayor and members of the Council, as a result of the action taken by the
City Council at the last meeting, we've prepared these Findings for your consideration.
This is the annexation request that consists of two parcels and there are also
accompanying plat applications with this. But this is simply on the annexation and
zoning request. As you will see these Findings also include the Comprehensive Plan
analysis in addition to the requirements and conditions of annexation. Of course if you
take this action we will have to follow it up with a development agreement and
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March 2, 1999
Page 8
ordinance of annexation and our usual recommendation on the annexation is that that is
held until the development agreement is signed.
Corrie: Any other staff comments?
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council I would just add on page 22 of the Findings, the first
paragraph 3.31 that direct lot or parcel access to Eagle Road is prohibited. Just add
Eagle Road between to and is.
Gigray: Oh is this an addition?
Bentley: It says to is prohibited. It should say to Eagle Road.
Corrie: Thank you Shari. Any further comments? Council? I'll entertain a motion on
the item number five, Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law request for annexation
and zoning.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor I move that we approve the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of
Law and the Decision and Order that will grant this annexation and zoning.
Anderson: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Rountree second by Mr. Anderson to approve the Findings
of Fact and Conclusions of Law annexation and zoning and make the corrections. Any
further discussion?
ROLL CALL VOTE: BIRD, YEA. ANDERSON, YEA. ROUNTREE, YEA. BENTLEY,
YEA.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL YEAS.
Corrie: Mr. Gigray have the development agreement and the ordinance for the
annexation then.
Gigray: Yes, those will be in process.
Corrie: Thank you.
6. FINDINGS OF FACTS AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW: REQUEST FOR
ANNEXATION AND ZONING OF 8.51 ACRES BY JOHN GOADE—SOUTH OF
TROUTNER BUSINESS PARK, BETWEEN WALTMAN LANE & TEN MILE:
Corrie: Mr. Gigray.
Meridian City Council
March 2, 1999
Page 9
Gigray: Mr. Mayor and members of the Council this as the similar actions that we've
had are matters that you decided on the 16th of February. We have at your direction
prepared Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law and Order of Decision to grant an
application for annexation and zoning of this 8 plus acre parcel, which is proposed to be
annexed into the City. Findings relative to the essential requirements for legal
requirements for annexation and appropriate zoning designation are included and as
you will find the specific considerations of the government subdivisions as conditions of
annexation are set forth in section 18 of these findings of which there are a number that
were listed there. If you need further review of that, I'd be more than happy to do that.
We also have included in the findings for your consideration the proposed development
and analysis of the Comprehensive Plan because it's an annexation and zoning
designation and that it's in conformance of the Comp plan. Those conclusions of law
include that analysis in addition to your statutory and ordinance authority to take these
actions and then the order proposed decision and order includes entering of a
development agreement which provides in section four of your order the specifics of that
development agreement which are those conditions relative to the requirements and
requests of the government subdivisions providing services in the jurisdiction.
Corrie: Okay thank you. Any further comments from staff.
Stiles: No, sir.
Corrie: Thank you. Any comments or discussion from Council? I'll entertain a motion
on the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law.
Anderson: Mr. Mayor I would make a motion that we approve the annexation and the
Decision and Order for the zoning request for John Goade for 8.51 acres.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Anderson second by Mr. Bird to approve the Findings of
Fact and Conclusions of Law for the request. Any further discussion? Hearing none,
roll call vote.
ROLL CALL VOTE: ANDERSON, YEA. BENTLEY, YEA. BIRD, YEA. ROUNTREE,
YEA.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL YEAS.
7. TABLED 2/16/99: FINAL PLAT FOR WHITESTONE ESTATES #3 BY
WHITESTONE DEVELOPMENT COMPANY LLC — NORTH OF WALTMAN,
SOUTH OF W. FRANKLIN, WEST OF S. LINDER ROAD:
Meridian City Council
March 2, 1999
Page 10
Corrie: Shari, any comments?
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council this was tabled last time because the applicant hadn't
had an opportunity to review our comments and respond, which they have now done
and also it was the issue of vacation of right of way and that's being handled through
Ada County Highway District through an exchange in lieu of a vacation. He's addressed
all of our concerns.
Corrie: Mr. Gigray, I haven't forgot you. I just made you second this time.
Gigray: Mr. Mayor and members of the Council, in this instance we haven't gotten to –
in the final plat we would just prepare the order based on whatever action the City
Council would take and the only matter I would think you may want to clarify with the
staff is whether or not there are any changes or additions or deletions of their
recommendations submitted to the City Council for plat approval of I believe it's their
letter of February 24, 1999.
Corrie: Ms. Stiles.
Stiles: I have no additions.
Corrie: I'll entertain a motion for the final plat of Whitestone Estates No. 3.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor I move that we approve the final plat for Whitestone Estates No. 3
Subdivision with including the conditions of staff.
Bentley: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Rountree second by Mr. Bentley to approve the final plat
with conditions of staff. Any further comment? Hearing none, all those in favor of the
motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
8. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A
DRIVE-THRU KIOSK IN THE PARKING LOT OF INTERMOUNTAIN OUTDOOR
SPORTS BY BRUCE A. BENOIT D/B/A BARISTAS ESPRESSO — 1375 E.
FAIRVIEW:
Corrie: At this time I will open the public hearing and invite comments from staff.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, this was not really required to have an additional public
hearing, but since it's been noticed I guess we would go ahead with the public hearing.
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March 2, 1999
Page 11
It's for an espresso kiosk in front of the Intermountain Outdoor Sports building. As far
as the recommendation on page 3, item 1.4 1 would add to beginning except for signage
as shown on building, no signage is approved with this application, and also under 1.6
to strike that as our code enforcement officer has been hopefully successful in getting
the emissions van to take down their illegal sign. So we'll just keep working with them
and make sure that they all comply with the sign ordinance.
Smith: Mr. Mayor and Council, I just have one question that I would like the applicant to
address if they're here this evening. The matter of the water that is supplied to the fresh
water tank within the small building and the gray water I believe it's referred to that's
withdrawn from the holding tank, I'm curious as to where the water comes from and
where the water goes after it's removed.
Corrie: Any other staff comments? This is a public hearing I'll invite the representative
first.
BRUCE BENOIT
Benoit: I'm Bruce Benoit. I'm the owner of the establishment and to answer your
question the water comes from approve city sources. We currently have one in Boise.
It comes from the United Water and probably would be the same source for here since
we have the same delivery system for all of them and the gray water is hauled to
approved sewer dumps. It doesn't go to parking lots. It doesn't go to storm drains. It
goes into sanitary sewers and it's hauled away in a storage system that we have,
pumps it out the tank and disposed of properly.
Corrie: Did that answer your question, Mr. Smith?
Smith: Yes, Mr. Mayor. Those would both be city systems then. The water from the
city system, the sewer to a city dump?
Benoit: Yes, correct. Some of them like for instance one of the places actually goes to
a — we're dumping it into a car wash drain that's a car wash sump that's part of the city
sewer system. It doesn't go to the storm drain system at all.
Corrie: Do you need some clarification of what he's talking about or anything?
Smith: No, I just — there was a question about sewer assessments and water
assessments and I was just curious as to where these were coming from and where
they were going.
Bird: Mr. Mayor I got a question for the applicant. Have you looked at the
recommendations from the Planning and Zoning Commission and agree with those?
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March 2, 1999
Page 12
Benoit: Yes.
Bird: Okay.
Corrie: Thank you. Any further questions? Hearing none, anyone else wish to issue
testimony in this hearing? Okay. The Council have other questions or discussion at
this time?
Rountree: I have none.
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Okay I'll entertain a motion to close the public hearing.
Rountree: I move that we close the public hearing on the conditional use permit for the
kiosk in the parking lot of Intermountain Outdoor Sports.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Rountree second by Mr. Bird to close the public hearing on
item number eight. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the
motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: Any further discussion? Hearing none, I'll entertain a motion on the request for
conditional use permit item number eight.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor I move that we approve the conditional use permit request for the
kiosk with the appropriate changes made on page 3 of the recommendations from
Planning and Zoning Commission that would allow signage on the building as shown
and that — that's the only change in the recommendation.
Bird: (Inaudible)
Bentley: 1.6 needs to be stricken.
Bird: Yeah.
Rountree: She may want to remove it, but I'm not going to.
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March 2, 1999
Page 13
Bird: I'm not either. I'm not voting for it. Don't we have to have Findings of Fact and
Conclusions of Law and Decision and Order on this? Isn't that part of the — wouldn't
that be part of your motion Charlie?
Rountree: Mr. Mayor I will withdraw my motion. Mr. Mayor clarification with the
Counsel. Did Planning and Zoning grant the conditional use permit?
Gigray: Mr. Mayor and members of the Council, if it's agreeable with Councilman
Rountree that I respond to that question. They have prepared recommendations
because the final authority under your ordinance for conditional use permits lies with the
City Council, so that's why it comes to you in the form of a recommendation rather than
Findings of Fact because it's a conditional use permit and it comes under the quasi
judicial matters under the land use planning act we have to prepare Findings of Fact
and Conclusions of Law and Decision and Order in accordance with your directive this
evening which we would bring back to you at the next Council meeting for your
consideration and adoption. But the recommendations provide you with some of the
conditions that you might direct that I include in those findings.
Rountree: Thank you. Mr. Mayor I move that we have legal counsel prepare Findings
of Fact and Conclusions of Law including the recommendations as conditions in that
finding with the modification of the item on page 3 as it relates to signage and that we
indicate an affirmative in the Findings of Facts as far as acceptance of the conditional
use permit.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Rountree second by Mr. Bird, discussion?
Bentley: I have a question. On your reference to the changes made on page 3, are we
going to include the second change or not?
Rountree: I'm not. I'm just as it relates to the signage on the building.
Bentley: Okay, thank you.
Corrie: Any further discussion? All in favor of the motion as stated with the change in
1.4 adding the word on the building after the no signage has been proposed on the
building. Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
9. WATER / SEWER / TRASH DELINQUENCIES:
Meridian City Council
March 2, 1999
Page 14
Corrie: This is to inform you in writing if you choose to have the right to a
predetermined hearing at 7:30 p.m. Tuesday March the 2nd, 1999 before the Mayor and
City Council to appear in person to be judged on the facts and defend the claim made
by the city that your water, sewer and trash bill is delinquent. You may retain Counsel
and this service will be discontinued on March the 10th, 1999 unless payment is
received in full? Is there anyone in the audience present who wishes to contest their
water, sewer and trash delinquency? They are hereby noticed that they may appeal
and have the decision of the city reviewed by the Fourth Judicial District Court pursuant
to Idaho Code. Even though they appeal their water will be shut off in the amount of the
turn off list is $45,120.38. That comes down to real close (inaudible) March 10th. I'll
entertain a motion on the turn off list.
Bird: Mr. Mayor I move that we approve the water, sewer and trash delinquencies.
Rountree: Second.
Corrie: Motion's made by Mr. Bird second by Mr. Rountree to approve the water,
sewer, trash delinquency turn off list. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those
in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
10. DEPARTMENT REPORTS:
A. TOM KUNTZ-
AWARD BID — GENERATIONS PLAZA.
Kuntz: Thank you Mayor and Council. The first item under department reports is the
Generations Plaza bid award. You should have in your packets a memo with a letter
attached from David Koga of the Land Group that lists each company that bid on
Generations Plaza and the price. The Parks and Recreation Department supports
Dave's recommendation that the construction bid for Generations Plaza be awarded to
Guho Corporation in the amount of $123,709, and request approval for the Mayor to
sign and the City Clerk to attest. (End of Tape)
Bird: Is that motion Tom?
Kuntz: Yes, do I have a second?
Bird: Mr. Mayor I move that the City of Meridian accept the bid and enter into a contract
with Guho Corporation on Generations Plaza for total of alternate A added in of
$123,709.
Meridian City Council
March 2, 1999
Page 15
Bentley: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bird second by Mr. Bentley to approve the contract to Guho
in the amount of $123,709, authorize the Mayor to sign and the City Clerk to attest. Any
further discussion?
Bentley: Can we add an "Amen"?
Corrie: All those in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Bird: After five years, we'll really break ground.
Corrie: Is that going to be done —
Rountree: It hasn't been that long.
Bird: Four year this month.
Unidentified: The schedule is groundbreaking in two weeks if all the contracts are
signed up and everything and the dedication during Dairy Days.
Bird: It will be finished by Dairy Days?
Unidentified: Yeah, that's the plan.
Rountree: Don't make promises you can't keep.
(Inaudible)
Unidentified: (Inaudible) so it should work pretty good. As a matter of fact I have a
meeting with the contractor tomorrow if we could sign that note of award.
Anderson: It's being signed right now.
Bentley: Mayor, I have a question for Tom. I know you're in discussions with the utility
easements. Are we getting that hooked?
Kuntz: I presented those construction utilities easements to Betty Theirhouse today and
told her we need to hear back from her in a timely manner. I'm going to call her at the
end of the week just to see how she's coming. She informed me that her attorney had
Meridian City Council
March 2, 1999
Page 16
had a heart attack so she was looking for another attorney. I did give her a copy of the
original easement that she signed off on and hopefully that will expedite matters. The
only change between the two easements is that between the original and the one I'm
having her sign now is we're asking for a permanent sewer easement underneath the
electrical or as part of the electrical easement because we are going to run a drain into
the storm drain for the fountain, so that's the only change we're asking for from the
original one.
Bentley: Thank you.
2. 4 ACRE FARM LEASE AGREEMENT WITH VANCE JANICEK.
Kuntz: The second item is a four acre lease agreement with Vance Janicek. To give
you a brief history the last two years the Joint School District No. 2 which owns 55 acres
south of Overland Road and east of Meridian Road and runs adjacent or abuts up to our
four acres has been collecting lease on our four acres. Mr. Janicek called to inform me
of that situation. We met approximately a week and a half ago. Thanks to Mr. Gigray's
office was able to throw together a lease agreement and that lease agreement is what
you have in your packets tonight, and I'm requesting your approval on that agreement.
Bird: Is that for a year Tom? It will be for one year. I believe it expires August 31 St of
this year.
Bentley: Mr. Mayor I move we approve the lease agreement between the City of
Meridian and Vance Janicek for the four acre park and authorize the Mayor to sign and
the Clerk to attest.
(Inaudible)
Bird: I'll second that.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bentley second by Mr. Bird to approve the four acre farm
lease agreement with Vance Janicek the Mayor to sign and the City Clerk to attest. Any
further discussion? All those in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Kuntz: The next item is the memorial tree project which you have a copy of in your
packet. This program went to the Parks and Recreation Commission this month and
they unanimously approved of the program. What we are trying to do is initiate a tree
donation program and have designated a site along the five mile creek pathway in Tully
Park that would be the area where we'd plant these trees and the plaques initially. With
Meridian City Council
March 2, 1999
Page 17
the future park expansion we would try to designate other areas that would be where we
would plant these memorial trees.
Bird: Mr. Mayor, Tom is this $290, does that just cover our cost or does that give us a
little —
Kuntz: That gives us a 20% mark up.
Bird: Good okay.
Kuntz: Administrative fee.
Bentley: Mr. Mayor I have a question for Tom. Have you laid out an area where we're
going to place these? Is it right along the pathway?
Kuntz: It is, it's on the park side of the pathway. We can't once we entered into an
agreement with Nampa Meridian where the path will be along Five Mile Creek, if it
reflects the agreement we have now with Fothergill, they don't want to see us planting
trees along the creek side of the pathway so planning ahead we're going to make sure
we're on the park side of the pathway. We have an individual who wants to buy two
trees and two plaques right now.
Bentley: My follow up question to that we're allowing enough space so when we go in
there to put the pathway in we're not going to disturb the trees.
Kuntz: Correct.
Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I move that we approve the Meridian Parks and Recreation
Memorial Tree program.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bentley second by Mr. Bird to approve the memorial tree
program. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion say
aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
4. PARKS AND RECREATION GOALS AND OBJECTIVES.
Kuntz: Item number four you should have in your packet is the parks and recreation
goals and objectives for 1999. These goals and objectives went to the Parks and
Recreation Commission this month and were approved. What we've done at this point
Meridian City Council
March 2, 1999
Page 18
is taken all of the goals and objectives under each major heading marked A and tried to
put a priority number one, two or three and then assigned staff responsibilities to
complete those priorities. We welcome to answer any questions.
Anderson: Are you going to be able to meet that number one goal?
Kuntz: Yes, sir.
Bird: How about the number two?
Kuntz: Yes, sir. Actually I met with a new landscape architect firm and they are really
excited about number two on that list, but of course we'll have to go out to all landscape
architect companies with an RFP, but we've got a lot of interest out there in both those
projects.
Corrie: Thank you Tom. Good goals.
Kuntz: Mayor, I do have a number five and on the original agenda for tonight, I believe
it was struck. But I do have a number five item. The number five item that you have
there is not the one that I want to discuss. I really have nothing to report on that and
that was the Parks and Recreation fee and don't have a report on that tonight. That's
being worked through by Council member Bentley and will be brought to your attention
to discuss it at a future date, but I do have and you should all have a packet that was
put in your mailbox tonight a copy of a memo from Bill Gigray to myself. If you don't I've
Bird: It was in our box tonight?
(Inaudible)
Kuntz: And I apologize for the lateness of this, but we had submitted to Mr. Gigray's
office two items in regards to getting our spring recreation programs up and running.
The first was an agreement with the Meridian Joint School District No. 2 to use their
facilities and item number two was an agreement that's allowing us to use independent
contractors to teach our classes. Mr. Gigray did an excellent job of pulling both those
items together and I think I would ask for his further explanation of what we have in front
of us tonight.
Corrie: Are you asking for the resolution tonight Tom?
Kuntz: Yes.
Corrie: Okay, Mr. Gigray.
Meridian City Council
March 2, 1999
Page 19
Gigray: Mr. Mayor and members of the Council and Tom, working with Tom and Tom's
office it appeared that these two items seemed to go hand in hand because I believe the
one with the Joint School District was a method to provide facilities for recreational
programming. The other part of this had to do with the form of agreement by which the
Parks and Recreation Department would enter into contracts that would clearly define
the people that are providing specific services for programming and recreation where
it's needed would be hired as independent contractors. I thinking about this and
working with Tom have prepared for your consideration a resolution which would grant
him authority to enter into these contracts upon certain conditions. One the resolution
as you can see in the first section sets out certain findings and the basis for findings is
it's a declaration on your part that this activity is really within the normal course and
scope of his department authority and the operations of its normal programming activity.
Secondly it would provide authority to the Parks and Rec. Director to enter into
independent contractor agreements. Those agreements would have to be in the form
and manner of what is Exhibit A attached to this resolution to provide services for
recreational programming and then to give the Parks and Recreation Director authority
to enter into rental agreements with the school district in the form provided in Exhibit B
for facilities needed to run recreational programs upon the condition that it's within the
recreational budget appropriation for fiscal year 1998 and 1999. It provides that this
particular authority would rest with the Director until you either change this authority by
revocation of this resolution or at the end of the 1998 and 1999 fiscal year whichever
comes first and it would provide that as a routing mechanism and information that the
Parks and Recreation Director would provide the original of the agreement to the City
Clerk so that it's filed with all of our contracts as official records of the City and then
notify the insurance carrier of any agreements signed under his authorization for the
purpose that the city would be assured of insurance coverage for all of its activities at all
of its locations because we wouldn't want an insurance lapse to occur. The
independent contractor agreement which is attached as Exhibit A to the proposed
resolution sets out in a basic format by which these agreements could be filled out by
the department using the particular form because there are going to be a number of
people that they're going to have to deal with. If you grant this authority, the Parks and
Recreation Director does not have to bring each one of these back to you for a specific
resolution and authorization. If you don't want to give that authority, then we'll have to
retrofit this resolution. The form of the independent contractor agreement I have worked
on to assure that there's a declaration of intent and purpose of entering into the
agreement. They would prescribe in section two of this agreement what contractor
services are going to be provided in this recreational program. Where the work is going
to occur the term is going to be for the session that they will be providing and then in
section four provides leeway so they can draft specifically what the compensation
provisions are because that could change depending on what kind of program is
involved. Some may be by the hour, some may be by the program. Then in section five
we have an option as to whether the contractor is required to provide and furnish the
Meridian City Council
March 2, 1999
Page 20
materials and equipment or they're not. This could depend on what's going on and then
we want to be clear in section6 they're an independent contractor. They are not going
to be considered as an employee. There's a work standard. I've included that in
section 7 so that in many of these instances we're going to be contracting with people
that have particular expertise and we want insurance that the contractor will adhere to
standards of care and performance that are reasonable and prudent of person of similar
qualification, training and expertise. And if appropriately licensed providing said
services and I use the language there and I've drawn that pretty closely to the language
that's in the Idaho Code relative to the medical malpractice standards which I think best
articulates in the statutes what the standard of care is for people that are providing
professional expertise. The term that this is an exclusive the rest of these provisions
are kind of standard. It's not to be assigned. We entered a contract with a specific
person to provide those services. Written notice of provisions and then some other
standard provisions so that's basically that form. The form which is provided as Exhibit
B is the school rental agreement form and this is actually a copy of the form that is
provided and used by Joint School District No. 2. We've just — this has some specifics
in this regarding place and hours and that's because the one we had to follow this from
was for the Meridian Middle School, but as long as it substantially follows this form, he
would be given authority to enter into those agreements, and I don't know how many
sites they will have to negotiate at how many schools, but this would give him authority
to handle that as a part of his authority to administer this program and then the top letter
you see is a directive from me to Tom with regards to follow with how to fill out the
contractor agreement and what is the follow up with regards to when agreement is
entered into who you supply copies to and so on.
Bird: I got one question on the subcontractor. Being a subcontractor they got to have a
certificate of insurance liability and workmen's comp, don't they to work for the city as a
subcontractor?
Gigray: If they're going to have employees we definitely want to have —
Bird: Even if they're out there doing as a subcontractor — I realize if they own
themselves, they don't have to have the workmen's comp but they got to have liability.
If they do something and get sued by one of the participants or something it's going to
come back to us anyway, but they should have the liability. If they're going to be a
subcontractor, they should have certificate of liability. And that should be in this right
here, and what our minimum is I don't know what our minimum is for the city, but I'm
sure it's $500,000 or a million, isn't it?
Gigray: $500,000. Single incident.
Meridian City Council
March 2, 1999
Page 21
Bird: Okay I would think any subcontractor that is receiving money as a subcontractor,
that has to be in that agreement, and if they've got employees they better have
workmen's comp on file too and that's got to be on the file before they start work.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor I can't envision that we would get into this situation but there are
limits to the amount that can be contracted without going through a bid process or a
professional agreements process. That may need to be alluded to in the directions on
this, so we don't get into that case and the other item I would propose to have included
in this in terms of what the authority is that the authority is granted not only within the
constraints of what's budgeted for the Parks and Recreation Department but that a
monthly report be provided to the Council on the status and account of agreements that
have been entered into the amount and the duration.
Bird: Also to the Parks and Recreation Commission?
Rountree: Yeah, that's an understood.
Bird: I got one question Mr. Mayor. On this if he contracts it by the hour, then we would
be eliminating that clause won't we of the bidding Charlie? I don't know how you do this
Tom. Is it usually on an hourly or is it on a section?
Kuntz: Usually it's on a per person basis. And so if you're taking a karate class, the
instructor would — let's say we were charging $15 for a six week class or an 8 week
class. The instructor would enter into an agreement where we would agree to pay them
$10 per student for each student in that class. So the amounts and I'm not sure what
kind of amounts you're talking about but should not be —
Rountree: You're correct. I can't envision getting there, because I think the amounts
are like $25,000.
Bird: Yeah but we need to take into consideration that down the line it could happen.
Rountree: Well this is only good for a year at a time.
Kuntz: And Charlie if I could address the report thing. I would hope that through the
reports that we get on a monthly basis from our finance department that not only our
expenditures identified, but our revenues identified because I need to track that for
budgetary purposes for the coming you know fiscal year, so that's something that we're
definitely interested in and it would be very simple to get that and pass it along to the
Commission and the Council, and that report should include not only contractual
instructors but instructors that are not eligible to be contractual and would be
employees. We still want to keep a check and balance between revenues and
expenditures for those recreation programs.
Meridian City Council
March 2, 1999
Page 22
Bird: If you're going to hire employees now we're getting into another subject.
Rountree: Those are the only comments I had initially.
Corrie: Any other comments?
Gigray: Mr. Mayor point of information for the Mayor and Council, I was advised I think
by Eli that they may need authority to enter into the agreement with the Joint School
District because I think that comes before them on Monday or they have need for the
space by then and I don't know whether or not you feel comfortable making a motion for
approval of these resolutions subject to our preparing the appropriate change to provide
for the certificate of liability insurance as an addition to the form on Exhibit A that also
that this resolution would include an additional provision that no contract could be
entered into that would violate the Idaho State Code on bid for services for professional
services and include a provision that the Parks and Rec. Director provide to the City
Council and to the Parks and Rec. Commission a monthly report of any contracts
entered into.
Bentley: Will, do you have a resolution number? So we can hook one into it? Mr.
Mayor I would move that we authorize the Parks and Rec. Director and approves these
resolutions for independent contractors agreement with the stated changes and the
Meridian School District rental agreement.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bentley second by Mr. Bird to approve the resolution with
the approved amendments to be prepared by the City Attorney as directed by Council.
Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Bentley: Mr. Mayor I have a question for Mr. Rountree. And that is on the — what was
your intent on the Parks and Rec. Commission and reflection on this?
Rountree: Just that they get the information so they know what's going on as well.
They wouldn't approve it, we wouldn't approve it. It's just an accountability thing and it's
information that they need.
Bentley: Okay thank you.
B. GARY SMITH:
Meridian City Council
March 2, 1999
Page 23
TABLED 2/16/99: INSPECTORS CONTRACTS FOR
MECHANICAL AND PLUMBING. (APPROVE BUILDING &
ELECTRICAL.
Smith: Mr. Mayor and Council, the first item this evening concerns the inspectors
contracts for the mechanical and plumbing inspections. As you know our mechanical
and plumbing inspectors, all of our inspectors are contract employees. At the last
Council meeting you approved the building inspector and the electrical inspectors'
contracts and you had questions concerning the requested increases for mechanical
and plumbing and table those to this evening's meeting. Lynd Hoover, our plumbing
inspector and Rod Medley, our mechanical inspector is here this evening to answer
your questions concerning their request. I guess I would open the floor to you to ask
questions of them. I believe — hopefully you still have the information that was
submitted to you at the last meeting concerning the fees that were paid to each. The —
Rountree: Mr. Mayor if I might my issue — it's really not an issue just wanted an
explanation of the change and your thoughts behind the suggested change. Is it a
parody issue with the other inspections that go with the City? Is it in line with what's
going on in the industry? What are you issues and what are you trying to accomplish
besides get more money? That's pretty simple.
Smith: I guess I'll just turn microphone over to either Rod or Lynd. However they want
to proceed.
(Inaudible)
Hoover: I've been doing this ten years and I've had two decreases in what I make.
started off originally at 50% and then I went from 50 to 40 on a sliding scale. Now I'm to
50, 40 and 30 on a sliding scale. I still do the same amount of work. I've had to hire
people in the past to help me get all the work completed, and right now if I hire
somebody I'm paying them $30 an hour and I think I need a raise, you know in ten
years I need a rate increase just to cover my expenses that I will have if we get really
busy and I have to hire somebody.
Rountree: Lynd, I guess I had a question in terms of your sliding scale as opposed to
the sliding scale reflected with the other inspections. And I don't have them in front of
me but as I recall yours broke at 3 points and the other sliding scales there are four
ranges and permit issuances where there's certain percentages and I think Mr. Medley
is talking about essentially he'll end up with three by his proposal but the other two
inspectors there's four break downs. Did you look at that so we have some consistency
in how those permit issuances breakout and are there pros and cons as it relates to
your business on that.
Meridian City Council
March 2, 1999
Page 24
Hoover: Well every inspector has a little different quirk to their contract. Harold the
electrical inspector gets 50% of all commercial no matter where he is on his percentage.
The commercials like St. AI's you spend just a tremendous amount of time there. Just
you know, I've been there probably 20 times so far and they're only on the second floor.
You know it just get busy and all our contracts are not the same. Mine would break
down into three groups. I would have 50% then it would slide to 40% and then it would
slide to 30% and that would be the three groups that I would have for my contract and
what I'm asking for is an increase in the slide point, from 50 to 40 and 40 to 30.
Rountree: And can you give me a rough estimate? You indicated that your help is
going to cost you $30 an hour. In your business and your bottom line, what are your
increase in cost of doing business over the last ten years? Do you have a figure on
that?
Hoover: One year I paid out $12,000 to somebody to help me. You know every year it
fluctuates. I've gone through three new pickups since I've been here. You know, .32
cents a mile, I'd write 20 some thousand miles a year so that's what the government
rate says it costs you. Other than that, I don't have a lot of expenses.
Corrie: Any other questions from Lynd? I guess not Lynd. You must have made your
case. It sounds like it. Rod?
Medley: Well I've been here just half as long as Lynd. I started in January 1, 1994 and
on my contract I have five different percentages Mr. Rountree, and that's what I want to
do is eliminate the last one which is 30% which would make my bottom line 40%. The
reason my contract was structured in the way it is, is my permits are not quite as much
as the plumbing and electrical and of course not near as much as the building permits
are, but five years ago when I started our city limits were a lot closer to the center of
town than they are now. My truck expenses have increased about 20% because of
mileage and of course higher expenses as far as vehicles is concerned period. I have
the same situation as Lynd does. If we get any busier than we are right now, pretty
soon I'm going to have to start looking at hiring at least one guy part time because I just
can't stay up with it. I can't satisfy our customers and that's one of my concerns.
Where we pay all of our own benefits if you want to call them that every year my
insurance continues to go up. My liability insurance went up this year more than I had
anticipated. And so if I eliminate the 30% and end my rate at 40, it's going to increase
my yearly income between three and four thousand dollars depending on our volume of
course, and if I do that then I think I can justify and at least maintain where I have been
for the last five years as far as my general expenses are concerned.
Rountree: This hasn't anything to do with what you just told me, but I'm curious as to
the availability of help. I guess in both of your cases, are there folks out there that you
Meridian City Council
March 2, 1999
Page 25
can hire readily? Do they have to be licensed? Can you do it as an apprenticeship?
What's the situation?
Medley: Well what I have done in the past Mr. Rountree is hired retired people like to fill
in when I'm on vacation. What I mean by that I mean retired mechanical people. To go
out and hire a person off the street Lynd can't do that because he's restricted by codes
as far as journeymen are concerned. We don't have any I'm sure you're aware of we
don't have any journeymen requirements in this state, but I want to maintain some good
service, so I wouldn't want to hire somebody off the street to do the inspections for us.
Rountree: Thank you. Just part of my education.
Corrie: Any other questions?
Bird: I have none. Mr. Mayor I move that we enter into contract agreements with Lynd,
Inc. and RIMI, Inc. with the changes as shown on their proposals for the Mayor to sign
and the Clerk to attest.
Rountree: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bird second by Mr. Rountree to enter into a contract with
the changes proposed to Council for the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest.
Bird: Mr. Mayor that is retroactive to October 1St
Corrie: Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Gigray: Mr. Mayor and members of the Council, point of information. We will rewrite
these agreement. We have to scan them in because we've changed computers as you
know and I thought if we moved on this we could do them all at the same time. If that's
agreeable.
2. TRANSPORTATION IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM.
Smith: Thank you Mr. Mayor, thank you Council. The second item is the Transportation
Improvement Program. At your last work session you discussed in fair amount of detail
the two reports that were submitted to you. One from the Transportation Task Force
Committee and one from the Mayor's Ad Hoc Transportation Committee.
Bentley: On this sheet that we compiled off the board, we're short about three votes.
Did we have three people not vote on five projects or did we just miss them in the tally?
Meridian City Council
March 2, 1999
Page 26
Bird: (inaudible)
Rountree: How many votes are shown on the couplet? There should be three there.
There's three that were left on the couplet.
Bentley: Thank you.
Rountree: When he compiled that, he took them off because the couplet was an issue
that we were going to ask ACHD to provide us some updated information which we did
last week, so that's where those three votes are.
Bentley: Thank you. Then my question would be then we would have to figure out what
we're going to do with the couplet.
Rountree: By way of discussion tonight, we've got three options, one we drive a stake
into it, two we can put it on the back burner, or three we can put it on a list of priorities
and put a priority on it.
Bentley: How do you like your steak?
Rountree: I speak for myself, I did want to hear what ACHD was going to tell us about
it. Apparently did have some discussion with the Ad Hoc Transportation Group about
that particular option in terms of its feasibility and the timing that it might be necessary
because they even include it as an alternative in their discussion, but kind of a last
resort. So given that my personal feelings would be that we maintain it on a list but
assign it no priority and that it be a long term project for considered solution once we get
a better handle on what we've got in the way of improvements in the city. And again I'd
like to hear what ACHD has to say about it.
Bentley: My feeling is somewhat on the same I think with the opening of Franklin and
the improvement on Meridian Road, I would prefer to put it on the back burner and see
how some of these other projects if we can open things up and use it as a last resort.
Anderson: I guess I walked away from the meeting on Friday with ACHD still leaving an
empty void for me because I had specifically asked that we have a presentation from
them and have them talk about that. That never happened. I would like to hear another
presentation before we put this on the back burner and find out what we're talking about
here. If Franklin Road widening the timing of the lights the new lights have been added,
if they have made an impact, I would like to know what kind of an impact so that we can
make a decision on this couplet issue one way or the other once and for all. So I don't
want to just keep pushing it back. I'd like to get it resolved and the only way we can get
it resolved is to get the most current information on it.
Meridian City Council
March 2, 1999
Page 27
Bird: I agree with Ron on that. I think we — it's been on the back burner for three years
now. I think it's time we do need an updated study from them. Ron left there asking
Terry to give us a new study. Once it comes out, I think we need to go forward with it
and see what it is like, but I agree with Ron. I don't want to put it on the back burner.
Bentley: We do have traffic counts from while the construction was under way and if we
can get some traffic counts now that the roads are completed and open, I think we can
get a good reflection off of where it's going. I know where it is when I come through
here at a quarter to six at night compared to what it was when the roads were closed,
but I think it would be a better view if we had those traffic counts.
Corrie: So what I'm hearing is that you would like to have an update from the ACHD as
soon as possible on the counting and that?
Rountree: You know as far as an action, I think we need to take an action on the list as
it's presented. I'm going to take a stab at a motion here that we approve the list as it's
been summarized by City Clerk Berg and that we retain the couplet at the bottom of the
list with an annotation that indicates a specific decision will follow a briefing from ACHD
traffic engineering staff. I wish I could give you a date certain. I would like to make that
decision tonight, but at it's earliest convenience per our request made February 26,
1999 of ACHD for that information.
Bentley: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Rountree second by Mr. Bentley to approve the road
projects 2/23/99 project with the decision to follow after the ACHD survey questions
been answered to us. Any further discussion?
Anderson: Could you explain that footnote on the couplet deal? What you're saying
Charlie if I can understand this is we will assign no specific priority to it right now
pending the outcome of the presentation by ACRD.
Rountree: It stays on the list as unprioritized until we get an explanation from ACHD.
Corrie: (Inaudible) Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the
motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
3. USTICK WATER RESERVOIR DRAIN LINE LICENSE
AGREEMENT.
Meridian City Council
March 2, 1999
Page 28
Smith: Thank you Mr. Mayor the third item is the Ustick Reservoir Drain Line License
Agreement with Nampa Meridian Irrigation District. This is an overflow line from our
reservoir and also bypass pumping line that will discharge into the Finch Subdrain. I
petitioned irrigation district for approval to make that discharge and they agreed and
responded with this license agreement that you have a copy of in your packet.
Bentley: I have a question for Mr. Gigray. Have you had a chance to review this?
Gigray: Mr. Mayor and members of the Council, Gary's office has provided me with a
copy of this agreement and I reviewed it and it appears to be kind of in the standard
format by which we craft license agreements with that district. The one thing that you
will want to do and I want to make sure that we continue to do is to provide our carrier
with copies of these agreements where we're entering into with Nampa Meridian or
anyone else because there's certain indemnity provision in here with regards to our own
operations and I want to make sure that our carrier's notified and we're covered for that
activity. It does provide some protections in here and we tried to craft this in the
Fothergill Agreement which is included in the Fothergill Agreement that there are no
third party beneficiaries of this agreement so that someone else can't come in and claim
that they're a benefit of this that if we're not doing something it can only Nampa
Meridian that can enforce it. My only other comment is I'm going to rely totally on Gary
and his staff to make sure and to tell you that this agreement allows them to do the
things they need to do to accomplish their goals.
Smith: It does, thank you.
Bentley: I have nothing further.
Corrie: Any further discussion from Council? I'll entertain a motion on the license
agreement.
Bird: Mr. Mayor I move that we enter into the Ustick Water Reservoir Drain Line
License Agreement with Nampa Meridian Irrigation and for the Mayor to sign and the
Clerk to attest.
Anderson: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bird second by Mr. Anderson to approve the license
agreement for the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest. Any further discussion?
Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Meridian City Council
March 2, 1999
Page 29
4. ROARING SPRINGS WATER PARK SEWER AND WATER
ASSESSMENT AGREEMENT.
Smith: Thank you Mr. Mayor and Council members. The last item I have concerns the
sewer and water assessments that were made by my office for the Roaring Springs
Water Park. I submitted a memorandum to you dated February 25th explaining the
rationale that I used or that we used in our department to calculate these assessments.
It's my understanding that the developer is here this evening to contest the amount of
money that has been assessed by my department for the sewer and the water. I guess
primarily the water, because as I understand the water basins do not have a drain to our
public sewer.
Corrie: Gary, have you seen that letter?
Smith: Yes, written by Roger Smith. Yes, I have.
Bentley: Gary, these are the standard charges you normally — or use the same form
you normally use on other ones?
Smith: Yes. The only thing that was of question in my mind was the annual fill of the
basins. When the facility starts up in the spring or early summer of each year, that's an
unusual use because we haven't been faced with a similar business with a similar
impact on our system. However as I understand it's a fairly significant impact. It's over
a fairly short period of time. I don't know what the time period is. But I assume I know
that it all happens within a month period of time. At least I'm assuming that's the case.
The rest of the calculations are based on the monthly water use which figures have
been provided to me by Pinnacle Engineering and (End of Tape)
Smith: ...one of the things that we do on all commercial projects is that we ask the user
to enter into a reassessment agreement with us, so that after a specified period of time,
we can assess the water use as it actually occurs and make adjustments to the
assessments that have been made up front. In that case, we either refund money to the
user, or we invoice for additional funds. As I mentioned in my memorandum, it's not
our intention to assess users for any more or any less water or sewer than they use.
We want to be sure that we are as accurate as possible. So we pick on numbers to the
best of our knowledge and the best knowledge of the applicant reflects what the use is
going to be. We rely totally on the information that was supplied by the engineer,
Pinnacle Engineers for the applicant, since we have zero experience for water parks,
water use.
Corrie: Any questions for Gary at this point?
Meridian City Council
March 2, 1999
Page 30
Bird: Gary, what do you—what are the developers, owners, what do you think their
contention of over this? I've got another question, Pinnacle, they're maximum, their
January 21 st letter certainly don't match up with the one that I just got today. I don't
know how that changed so fast, but it did.
Smith: In terms of the water use?
Bird: Yeah.
Smith: I don't recall the January letter, is it the gallons per day, recharge...
Bird: Pools, rides, and all that, yeah, 50 gallons—another for cleaning and stuff. It's still
at the 35 gallons, but it's just the (Inaudible), 35,000 1 mean. 35 gallons, they wouldn't
be here contesting it if it was 35 gallons.
Smith: The assessments for the—they are referred to as connection charges, I refer to
them as assessments because a connection charge is sometimes misunderstood as a
physical activity and these are assessment charges based on the capacity of our
system to provide the water that is required. The cost of the assessment is based on
the dollar value of our system and the capacity of that system. It's not totally that
simple, but it's basically that type of derivation to arrive at an assessment fee for an
equivalent residential unit, which is the basis for our fees and calculating all the
commercial assessments. As I explained, we don't—we use either the fixture unit
demand, out of the Uniform Pluming Code, if we have fixtures to deal with, such as the
restroom areas—I think there were two other buildings that had to do with vendors,
proposed vendors. Or we use a gallons per month equivalent for actual water use.
Bird: Gary, are these fees based on an ordinance that is in place?
Smith: Yes, our ordinance obviously spells out the $704 for each equivalent residential
unit and we do have a gallons per month basis in the ordinance for—to define a single
family residence. I guess that kind of sums up my comments unless you have
questions of me.
Corrie: Stick around, I'm sure we will.
Rountree: Gary, did you have an opportunity to do a quick and dirty assessment of our
rates as it compares to like systems within the valley?
Smith: I accomplished a little bit of that Councilman Rountree, just via telephone. The
monthly water use fee or the fees used, assessed to the development during the month,
on a monthly basis, my assistant engineer commented out of seven cities or water
purveyors he has surveyed, we are number four out of seven. So we are right in the
Meridian City Council
March 2, 1999
Page 31
middle in terms of monthly rates. In terms of assessment fees for the capacity of the
system, he said that we're—it's difficult to compare because everybody has a little
different structure as to how the assessment fees are determined. It—he just related it
to apples and oranges. Everybody isn't the same, so it's difficult to compare one to
another. I don't have a good answer for you on the assessment, sorry.
Rountree: (inaudible) never a good answer, but that's okay.
Smith: I don't think that --we are competitive as far as what we are charging for the
assessment.
Rountree: Okay, my recollection when this was before council, you expressed a
considerable concern that whether or not we had capacity to even move forward with
this project and apparently that question has been answered, but it did put some stress
on our system on that particular location. My recall being subject to senior moments,
more and more every year, I don't recall if there was any discussion at that point and
time about the possibility of providing a well, or a well lot, nor if there was any
discussion about the possibility of these folks providing their—a portion of their water on
their own site with a well, so do you recall any of that discussion going on?
Smith: No I don't.
Rountree: I sure don't .
Smith: I recall a discussion of my concerns about the ability of us, of our well to provide
water for this use, based on the conditions of our water rights at well #14. Which I did
research and found that their was no restriction for this type of use, such as we are
having attached to our water rights on more previous drilled wells. The rate at which the
water is to be used, has increased significantly from earlier discussions, in terms of
gallons per minute. The conversations that we have had with the developers engineer,
we've relied upon the timing of the filling of the basins. Initially is was going to be one
basin every week, in terms of about 500,000 gallons each. I understand now that the
volume is somewhere around 1.2 million and it's going to be over a much shorter period
of time. So the initial fill of the structures is going to be increased form what we thought
around 80 gallons a minute, to somewhere in the 140 gallons a minute. As I
mentioned, at the time of the hearings, our responsibility as a water purveyor is to the
drinking water of our residents. That's our initial responsibility and I made that clear
during the public hearings, so that the record was clear on that. Not in opposition to this
project, but I wanted everybody to understand that that is where our responsibility lays.
In terms of how much we assess for this water use, then that becomes the question that
is before you this evening.
Rountree: That was never a question?
Meridian City Council
March 2, 1999
Page 32
Smith: I don't recall that anyone ever asked what that number was. I know that we
discussed a little bit about what the water use fee is, the monthly fee and I think in the
memo that I gave you earlier that's a pretty minor number compared to the
assessments.
Rountree: Thank you.
Corrie: Anything else? Okay Gary, thank you. Who wants to be first?
ROGER SMITH.
R. Smith: I'm working with the developers as their engineer and I've spoke with Gary
today about just questions in general on how the assessment was determined and had
a chance to look at his memo to you folks. The items that we're hoping to get out, I
think one thing that I would like to discuss that I haven't brought to Gary's attention is
we're—our assessment for the daily operation to make up water that we need to
recover water that has evaporated or taken out by people in the pools, is during a time
period that it's mutually exclusive to the initial fill period. So we are getting an
assessment for one rate, during the period of operation, during normal daily operation
and then proceeding that period before the period of normal daily operation we also
have an assessment for the initial fill that we will do on an recurring basis annually. So I
think that there maybe some room at least for discussion with Gary about how that's
done, I think that rate for filling is going to be very similar to the rate that we draw water
on a continuing basis. So because those are over two different time periods, mutually
exclusive time periods, it's sort of like a doubling effect on the fee I think and I would
have to discuss that more with Gary, but it's one item to note I think and to discuss. I do
think that that draw rate for initial filling of the pools is going to be very similar to the
daily make up rate. So that's the fundamental points, so I think having a separate
assessment for the initial fill is one issue that we can probably discuss and may have
some room for negotiation on. The—another point that we brought up was that even
though we do have a significant draw rate over the summer, that rate doesn't continue
for the whole year, which is obviously different than an equivalent residence would be.
So we are not pulling water for the whole year. The second point is that we are like a
residence again, I think this development could probably be considered similar to
essentially a 150 unit subdivision. You know, that would be I think a number that would
generate something close to that 7,500 gallons a month rate for the total amount of
water that we are going to draw. The thing that makes us different than what would be
a typical subdivision is that we have a lot of control over the time period that we draw
water. So we are willing to make concessions here or adjust the time that we draw
water to minimize the impact on the system, which you know is obviously isn't
something that you could do with a residence. So I think all we are looking for is if it's
possible to adjust or somehow make an adjustment for a business that is using water in
Meridian City Council
March 2, 1999
Page 33
a different way than the average residence and the basis for assessing the fee that
might be a place where we can hopefully work out some adjustment in the rate
structure. That's all I have.
Bentley: What kind of purification—you have a purification system onboard?
R. Smith: Yes we do.
Bentley: And you have irrigation water on site?
R. Smith: Yes we do.
Bentley: Is that a usable quantity for refilling?
R. Smith: The irrigation system is not designed to provide water at the rate that we
need it for. Right now, Nampa Meridian Irrigation District has a well house for that
subdivision, when it was originally designed, Nampa Meridian has a structure there that
is designed to provide irrigation water for the entire 45 acres there. Boondocks and the
remaining parcels around us. As it is designed right now, there is going to be some
difficulty in water sharing and some cooperation required between the parcels to make
sure that we don't overtax that system just for irrigation water so that's a separate issue.
Then you know, if we want to pull more water from that ditch, there would be an
additional irrigation right that we would obviously have to go after to obtain the ability to
use that water. We would have to I'm sure design—that water is obviously not of the
same quality as city water and there would be some additional at least design systems
and purification systems that we would be require to have to make that work.
Bentley: Have you thought about a private well?
R. Smith: We did, the problem is the Snake River (Inaudible) process which has put a
restriction on new wells for the purpose of providing water to a facility such as this. In
talking with the state department water resources, a draw, a new well to draw water just
as Gary's has eluded to on the city's wells, don't have rights for this kind of a system to
pull water for that purpose.
Bentley: Okay, thank you.
R. Smith: You are welcome.
Rountree: I guess a point that I would like to make is that the capacity—you need the
capacity there to operate whether you prorate it over 12 months or operate...
R. Smith: That is absolutely true.
Meridian City Council
March 2, 1999
Page 34
Rountree: So I don't necessarily buy into the argument, unless you are agreeable to
take water prorated on what you would get on a monthly basis for 12 months, and then
you wouldn't be able to operate either. As far as the other point that you raised about
the potential doubling effect of the fill versus the daily makeup, that might be something
that you want to explore with Gary, my initial thoughts on that—yeah there maybe
something there. The other point that I would like to make is something I mentioned
earlier is that the possibility of a lot to (Inaudible) on this site for the city to add to its city
water system for consideration. I don't know if that is a possible operation, I don't know
if it fits well with our grid for wells, but that might be something that you can approach
the city with as well. I guess my point is that we want to make this work, but we also
want to be consistent and we want to be fair with the people who have come to Meridian
and the people who are going to come to Meridian. So, this particular request is one
that I'm going to be particularly cautious with.
R. Smith: I think the owners feel that they are certainly willing to pay their fair share
and they understand that. We are just looking for a way and cooperation to figure out a
way to reduce that total cost and the total number here of $165,000 with something
that—we didn't know what that value was going to be and obviously it took some time
and trying to sort it out to figure out what it was going to be because we are not
(Inaudible) at the same time being an odd use, and being something different than
everyone else, we think we might be able to make some adjustments where we are not
treated like the average subdivision or the average house, or the equivalent average
house, we might be able to work something out.
Bentley: I would have to agree with Charlie, you know we have really got to be careful
here and—but your statement that you are not like the average house, that's true,
because I don't know very many houses when they flush the toilet there goes 35,000
gallons. So you know, we have to be careful of what we are doing, because we don't
need to open a can of worms. I think too, like Charlie the feasibility of working with
Gary on a couple of those items that maybe we can come to a reasonable solution that
direction.
Corrie: One of your contentions here is generation of—we figured $99,000 or close to
$100,000 assessment and you have $27,000. There is quite a difference there, I think
that is one of the...
R. Smith: That was based on—the long and short of it, splitting that demand over a
whole year and as Councilman Rountree eluded to, obviously we don't make that
demand over the whole year. We don't—we are not able to make our water draw over
that period, if we could, or if we could store it up, we would probably consider that an
option. It's not realistic obviously to look at us as being able to pull that water over the
whole year period, but at the same time we are not withdrawing water when the rest of
Meridian City Council
March 2, 1999
Page 35
the city is drawing water. At least we can avoid, (Inaudible) when drawing water. So
hopefully there is at least some counter balancing obviously not entirely cause out of the
city's storage of water and obviously we are drawing it the worst demand period when
there is over the summer time, so we acknowledge that.
Bentley: I'll tell you what I think if you get a hold of Bureau of Rec. right now, they would
let you have all the water you want.
R. Smith: It would be nice if that would coincide.
Bird: They would divert the Boise River up here right now.
Corrie: Not quite ready for that one yet.
Gigray: Mr. Mayor and members of the council, just a point of information. It would be
my opinion and recommendation to the council and certainly listening to the case here
is appropriate, it would be my opinion that if we are dealing with assessment fees and
hookups to an existing system and those are all proprietary funds and fees and I think
that the basis upon which those fees are set are established by ordinance. I don't think
that you would have the leeway to grant any variance from your own ordinance
requirements in order to protect the system without doing ordinance changes and it
seems that maybe there is some issues that could be negotiated. I'm seeing there is
some indication here that there may be. I think it would be helpful to the City Council if
that negotiation process could be undertaken to see if there could be resolution of this
issue. If not, I would recommend both to the Roaring Springs Representatives and to
the public works department that if there is a dispute, that that dispute be defined in
terms of whether it's a factual issue based on assumed facts by the proper applications
of the ordinance so that it is clearly defined what the issue is and what the authority of
the council would be to provide a remedy. I can work with the departments on the
process, not to prejudice the developer in any way, but it's my recommendation, I think
this is important that we establish a process by which you would resolve any ultimate
dispute and that that be well framed before you take it up. As you are well aware,
you've passed a procedure policy and procedure—we could handle it as a motion
possibly where we would address those issues head on, and have them well defined
ahead of time so we know what our—what your leeway is. I don't know that we have
that information at this point.
Corrie: Gary, do you think that you could do this within a reasonable period of time,
work with them --these figures and see where we are and what the difference are and
convey back to the council by the next meeting?
Smith: Yes, Mr. Mayor I can, you bet. I did want to clarify one thing, just for your
information, I did not assess anything for the initial fill. That was not included. There is
Meridian City Council
March 2, 1999
Page 36
the annual fill, which amounts to'/4 of a million gallons, was part of the assessment, but
the initial fill was not assessed other than water use fee. I would be happy to work with
Bill Gigray on this as far as the process is concerned and get that set forth and I would
be happy to have that answer back to you by your next council meeting. We can
include, I don't know if I can work with Mr. Gigray, can I work with the engineer for the
developer as part of this or...
Gigray: Mr. Smith, I think that certainly this is an operational issue that you as the
department head should work with them directly on this. I'm just saying if you get to
(Inaudible), in terms of what your position and recommendation as a department head
enforcing the ordinances and their position as we will not accept that, then what we
have to do, I think, is define what the issue is if that dispute exists and then we have to
look at our ordinances to see where it fits in there, so that we process a protest
properly, but we also, I can recommend to the council where it's authority is and where
it isn't, cause I would say that my advice at this point is that the council should not
violate it's own ordinances. This is a strict application of the ordinance. There is no
discretion, they shouldn't enforce it.
Smith: Okay, thank you.
Corrie: Do you guys have anything that you want to add to this? I better request to ask
Shari Stiles to address a couple of issues, since you are here, might as well be aware of
some of the issues. So Shari?
Stiles: I would just like to briefly since the owners are here, let you know some of the
problems that we are having. WE realize we have a very aggressive schedule and
you've got deadlines to meet. However, I have some mechanical—mechanical building
plan in my office right now that is not being processed and the reason for that is
because the plan does not comply with the conditions of the conditional use permit.
There is zero landscaping between that building and the freeway and you know, I can't
just unilaterally say well you don't have to do anything then, because there is a sewer
easement there. Gary doesn't want any trees or any large shrubs within that easement,
but there is not even grass shown there, it's ten feet of dirt and ten feet of paving, and
then a block building. It's going to be very unattractive from the—you know this is an
entrance corridor into the City of Meridian and if that building—if what has happened in
the past, and buildings starts happening before a building permit is issued, there is
going to be problems, because we need to have some kind of screening there, some
kind of landscaping. I don't think it's impossible, but if somebody is out there pouring
footings, before building permits are even processed, then we are going to come into
problems. I jut wanted to let you know it's been a very difficult project to work on,
because it seems like we are shifted from the architect, to the landscape architect, to
the engineer, nobody has an answer, it's always somebody else's problem. So you
know, we are trying to work with you, we are anxious to get you open too, but we would
Meridian City Council
March 2, 1999
Page 37
like some response when we ask for information. As I've told all of your consultants, the
requirements of the conditional use permit are requirements, they are not suggestions.
If you want to make a change, or there needs to be a change, then somebody needs to
talk to us and work it out. I just wanted to let you know that and if you could help me I
would appreciate it.
Corrie: I see your head shaking yes, but I need it on record.
REED BOWEN.
Bowen: I'm one of the developers of the park. First let me say just concerning this
water issue, we are not in dispute with Gary. Gary is doing his job and one of the things
that we are looking at though is Gary is doing his job out of a square box with a real
round hole trying to go into that square box, and it's just not fitting. What we are asking
is maybe we could re-evaluate how we are looking at businesses that fit in water parks
or other heavy water use businesses or something along those lines and see if there is
any concessions or changes that could be made to accommodate those. Especially
where Meridian is a growing city, I know that we are trying to attract business here, we
are trying to attract families here and we are all of the same mind set, but I would hope
that one of the council's responsibility or feelings of their responsibility is to make the
businesses that are here successful. In looking at the assessments that we've got from
the municipalities both the city and county and utilities, we are now five percent over our
total budget just from those assessment fees and that's before we start to pay taxes in
the community. That's before we've brought in 113,000 to 150,000 additional visitors to
the City of Meridian and the tax impact, and the sales tax issues and all those things
that will go along with that for the state and city and the growth out in this area. So we
are just asking that maybe you know, as there are in other areas in government, there
are always exceptions to certain rules and we are asking that maybe we could look at
this and see if there are some exceptions that can be made. Maybe not in the way that
is calculated, but maybe in the way that the numbers are used for the calculations. One
thing that we want to make real clear is that we have from the very start have been very
willing to cooperate with Gary in using the water, we don't intend to take the city down
beyond their capacity to take care of the pubic. We know that is top priority and I think
that everything that we have described in our plans has demonstrated that and we ware
more than willing to cooperate in any way to make sure that doesn't happen. That we
have a very minimal impact on the city's water resources as we fill initially, then if we
use water as the time goes on. I know it's tough in trying to calculate how much the
assessments were. We did give Gary the numbers back in November and it's just been
a process of trying to come up with an assessment number. It's kind of late in the game
due to the quick time curve that we are on now. That's what we would ask of the city is
that we get maybe an opportunity to re -look at the box as to how this is calculated.
Shari concerning the building, one of the things that we have asked—right now to get
into the back of, back to the ditch, to the well, for the irrigation district, and also for the
Meridian City Council
March 2, 1999
Page 38
City of Meridian to have access to a sewer mainline that they maintain down at the
bottom of our property, which will be between two properties eventually, there needs to
be some type of a road down there that gives access. Currently right now there is a
field of weeds. What we are proposing is that we would make a road that is well
maintained, graveled, without weeds, that would be the width of a truck to get down
there. We do have a building down there, but like Shari, we are concerned about how
that building looks. We have asked Clinton Yark (sic) our architect to come up with
some kind of landscape design that we can actually incorporate into that building out of
rocks and our theme of our park that would blend into what we are doing in the park, so
that building rather than looking like a concrete building, now looks like part of our park
and blends into the landscape. So we are concerned about that and hopefully when
we get those drawings done, that will maybe suffice to what you need. Also
remembering that as people are driving by on that freeway side, I don't know exactly—
how wide is the road? Ten feet, we've only got ten feet of gravel there that we'll have
on a road base, that will be kept weed free, completely clean and right behind that will
be a beautiful landscaped water park. I really think that the gravel piece through there
will not detract from the theme that Shari is trying to get and that is to have that gateway
into Meridian a very beautiful and attractive first impression on peoples eyes as they
drive by. So we are in agreement with you and we will do what we can to make sure
that meets your satisfaction.
Corrie: Okay Reed, I think that is going to be okay. I think you need to get together and
make out those arrangements and I'm not going to hold you up because of negotiations
here, so you can still work out there and just work with Shari and the people here and
by the 16th of March, we will have a little more handle on it.
DEPARTMENT REPORTS: CHIEF GORDON- POLICE BUILDING:
Gordon: I recently attended a seminar in Portland on designing and constructing police
facilities in preparation for new police building or a remodel of existing buildings. At that
seminar, I met an architect out of the Portland area who was raised in Meridian and
does business in Idaho with CHSQA. They do reciprocal work in both states. He came
over here, made a dual trip to visit relatives and also requested to sit down and talk to
myself and possibly a couple of Councilmen to discuss what we were looking at and
possibly give us some ideas. Last week Councilman Bird and myself met with this
architect Russ Hansen and after a long lengthy discussion and looking at the needs
assessment that was done by ZGA for the city, he suggested that we look at a feasibility
study to give the city some options on what to look at. Existing buildings, remodels,
new structures and also the types of structures. One level versus multi story, give the
city some kind of an option as far as expenses now and in the future. Councilman Bird
and I both thought it would be a good opportunity now to maybe get the jump on
something and at least get some options. With that...
Meridian City Council
March 2, 1999
Page 39
Bird: After talking to Russ, by the way Captain Bowman and Captain Musser were both
involved too, which was very good. He had some good ideas. You know our plans
being if and when we build a new city hall, we would move the police department down
here, if you look at the assessment, space assessment and stuff that ZGA did, all we
are doing is moving from a size 10 shoe to a size 11 shoe box. Once you remodel this
to the police department, it would not be good for anything else. If we grow—I was
amazed by the study that the parents brought in will be 90,000 in 2010, 1 don't think we
will be quite that, but after talking to Russ and having done some work in some jail
facilities, I realized they are a building of their own. Once you build it, that's all you are
going to get out of it. It's like a fire station or something else, you are not going to sell it
down the road for an office building or something like that, you know, because that's all
it's for. I would like to see—it's not a real expensive item, Russ would do it on a need
assessment for us, on whether we forego remodeling this, look into a new—he can do
all this and he felt that 9,000 would be more than enough to cover his assessment.
Chief and I had talked about it and I think it's something that we need to get ready so
that when we do or need to move we are not waiting a year to get the assessment to
find out what we need. That's all I'll say.
Corrie: Comments, questions?
Rountree: My only concern would be the shelf life of such an assessment. We don't
know for sure, we haven't set a particular course of action on any of the city buildings at
this point in time, we are looking at a city hall, and we have looked at space studies.
We could jump right out and do this feasibility study and it could lay on the shelf with the
other things that we've done, so to me it's a timing issue, it's not a needs issue. I agree
with what you are saying, we do need to do it, but do we do it right now? I'm of the
opinion that we probably ought not to. Probably we ought to do some more planning as
to what we need to do in the city, once we have a course of action set that is one of the
things we plot in that course of action. The feasibility of we'll have this, we will have the
fire station, we will have the existing police department building. Is our course of action
to sell them all? We need to know that, but to me it's a timing thing. It's not the fact that
we don't need it, I think we do need to do it. I would prefer that we maybe defer until we
know what we are going to do a little more with the other issues. That's my opinion.
Anderson: I wouldn't disagree with Councilman Rountree, I just had a question on the
actual building itself. Is there any merit to including jail space—can additional funding
be available by housing prisoners and is there a need in the future to have jail space
here in Meridian?
Gordon: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Anderson, that's an extremely dirty word when you
talk about a municipality having jail space. The plan was for four rooms of detention
facilities. There is an extremely large amount of liability goes with jail or detention
facilities and I really don't think that the city would even want to get close to something
Meridian City Council
March 2, 1999
Page 40
like that. I know the marshals would look at us if we were—if we had a capacity level of
100 people or larger. Prior to working for Meridian, I was a Chief Deputy in Bingham
County and I ran a jail. When you start housing other prisoners you don't get the best of
the prisoners and usually the $18-25 a day that you receive is a fractal amount of what it
actually cost to house those people. I don't think we even want to look at anything other
than detention. Those would be less than 24 hour storage if you will, temporary. I'm
sure Sheriff Kalem (sic) could really give you some eye openers as far as cost for
prisoners and with the legalities now and the civil actions, that would -1 wouldn't have
enough people on my staff right now to take care of the jail.
Anderson: Is the county going to be able to continue to house all those people? If we
are talking about us being 75,000-80,000 here in 10-15 years, they are going to have to
go somewhere.
Gordon: Creative management is what we've been doing so far. Here again, we are
getting down to who we lock up and who we don't lock up and that changes and there is
a lot of things that they are looking at. The bracelets and the anklets and—I could give
you a lot of off the wall things, but they will manage the county is required to take all the
prisoners. They are still looking at the privatization of storage of prisoners. That facility
I guess is still in the works. Where it's at I'm not really familiar with. I don't know. To
back up a bit, if the council wanted to pursue looking at a facility to house people, it
would be on a private basis. I could look into it. Boy, I don't have much hair now and I
would have even less after running a jail again.
(Inaudible)
Gordon: So to kind of answer your question, I would really rather not, but I will if that is
the direction of the council.
Corrie: Does Bentley have any comments on it?
Bird: I guess the feeling is that we probably better hang loose for—I would like to see
the chief put it in his budget for next year whether we use it or not Charlie.
Rountree: I don't have a problem with that, but what I would like to see is that it be
down on paper so that we can keep it on a radar screen and we don't loose sight of it
when we do get down to that stage. Make sure we don't forget to factor it in.
Corrie: Have you been to Washington DC lately, that's all they've talked about, put it on
the radar screen.
Rountree: Get it on the radar screen, I've got a phone line.
Meridian City Council
March 2, 1999
Page 41
Gordon: This architect, one of the things that he wanted, he said that time was not
really that much of an issue, because you could—once you had things figured out, you
could go by the cost of living increase and the cost of the property. He was going by,
him and Councilman Bird were speaking the same language and a lot of the times I
didn't really fully understand. They were talking about the cost of dirty dirt and clean
dirt, but they understood what they were talking about. Evidently those costs don't
ever—the values don't change other than with the going market. That's what he said,
you could do it now, or do it later, but it would still be a value to you so. I was just
looking at getting a start on things. The idea was not to crowd the council on the new
city hall and Councilman Bird and I talked about that.
(Inaudible)
Gordon: Thank you gentlemen, that's all I had.
Bird: Thank you Chief.
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(Inaudible)
Bentley: Tom Kuntz and I wound up speaking with Clair Bowman the other day. We
were looking for some answers on mitigation funds to do some landscaping on the
freeway. We stumbled on to the Meridian Road situation and he came up with a couple
of ideas. We are all looking to get the bridges built and this needs to be restructured.
It's a 31 year old bridge. In the course of the discussion we were asking what we could
do to this if it was feasible to do, by feasible is what's the shelf life of this bridge going to
be. Clair suggested that we approach ITD and have them do an engineering study and
see if this bridge will last ten years. The purpose for that is we offer up some
improvements that need to be made. One would be in order to access the water park
and Boondocks, which is over here, this is Overland Road here. One would be to get a
light crossing to get pedestrians through here and a pedestrian walkway on the west
side of the bridge. Again, over here they have scheduled I think is it 2002 or 2003,
Charlie, for this light in here?
Rountree: Glenn I don't know what the timing is on that.
Bentley: I've seen it on a sheet, but I can't remember the date to control the lights here.
They are going to add the second left turn lane I believe this year down here. So we will
have two left turn lanes from the west bound going on. I suggested that we need to
improve this light at Overland Road so we've got—currently now we've got the five way
on Overland road, but we only have the arrow turn for Meridian Road to access either
direction. I also suggested that they take this on ramp going to Boise East bound and
Meridian City Council
March 2, 1999
Page 42
close it off and bend it up in such a way that we stop the left turners that are on the
bridge. This is backing up the traffic the chief has police out there and are writing
tickets constantly on it. Clair stated that there is a possibility of a project falling by the
waste side and there maybe a half a million dollars available to lay toward this project.
The whole scenario would be that if this bridge can take this project and last for ten
year. If it last for ten years by engineering standards, then that will free up the money
and free up this project—push that out enough that we may...
(END OF TAPE)
Bentley: ...the bridge (Inaudible) is taken care of. Along the way that may open up the
Ten Mile Interchange. So what I need to know is what are your thoughts for this? Gary
is proceeding with sending a letter to ITD to have their engineering study done on this
bridge to see. It all centers around whether this bridge can be saved for ten years and
then we won't request anything else beside this and the other portion we're talking
about is the pavement from these on ramps to the light be replaced because it is all
crumbling up. So if we put this project together like this and we get a ten year life span
out of it, it may open the window to get the two overpasses built that we need.
Anderson: How does that open that window because they don't have to rebuild this
one? Is that what you are saying?
Bentley: That's correct. This one is on the horizon to be totally ripped out and replaced.
Anderson: Within ten years.
Bentley: Yeah.
Rountree: I think the need for fixing that interchange is not the longevity of that
structure, that structure was designed to last for 60 years and it's not unusual for them
to last a whole lot longer than their design life. The deck may wear out and probably
has worn out, but that can be replaced. The issue is that it doesn't serve the capacity
that is there now and whether or not it would need to be modified—in order to modify a
bridge like that it's usually cost prohibited to try and modify. It's generally cheaper to
just go in and pull it up and start over. I really don't know for sure that is a project that is
being considered at this point. I know that it's something that is being looked at.
Certainly not on the five year program...
Bentley: No, it's not on the five.
Rountree: It might be on the 20 year concept, our long range planning concept. I don't
know that they need to do a study to tell you whether or not that bridge will last another
Meridian City Council
March 2, 1999
Page 43
ten years. The sufficiency rating on that bridge is probably quite high. Whether it will
last capacity wise for another ten years is the real question.
Bentley: That's a question that maybe they can help answer. We've got an immediate
safety need there.
Rountree: The potholes get any deeper it will last a long time, no one will be able to get
through there.
Bentley: The other problem that we've got, if they decide to take and pull this before
either of those other crossing are built, or before Ten Mile is gone, then we've really got
a choke problem over there on Eagle, with only one way to get across to the south side
of the freeway. In Clair's eyes and I agreed with him that you know, if this is a doable
deal it would save us and maybe help us get the other two bridges up on Linder and
Locust.
Rountree: I guess the other angle we can approach for the other two bridges, the same
growth concept and the same planning concept as resulting in the 75 million dollar
reconstruct to the Wye is applied to that section of the interstate. The whole thought
process was there wouldn't be any growth south of the interstate, in the length of time
that particular facility would serve, which interstate itself was designed for 20 years. It's
going to be there forever, I really think the approach the city needs to take is through
(Inaudible) is that we need those structures to accommodate the growth in our
community and to tie our community together and play heavily on the concept of
community cohesion.
Bentley: I don't think there is an argument there with APA. I don't think there is an
argument there with ACHD, but the whole point is you've got the dollar problem. If they
are going to sit there and say are we going to give you two minor bridges or are we
going to give you this major overhaul? My point is if they are looking at putting this up
as a major project first, then like I said, we are down to one crossing. If we could delay
it by doing this, because this bridge was up to have that pedestrian walkway added at
one time, that money was taken away and the project was moved to—the money was
moved to a different project. You know, but of course, at the time, there wasn't thought
of Boondocks or the water park over there or the rest of the growth that is occurring on
the west side there.
Anderson: So my understanding of what you are saying though is that there was a half
million dollars that may become available from another project. That half million is not
enough to put an overpass on Locust Grove or Linder. We were just told the other day
those are a million to two million dollar deals.
Bentley: That's correct.
Meridian City Council
March 2, 1999
Page 44
Anderson: So if we did this cosmetic thing to this one, if the funding did become
available to widen this and increase the capacity of it, then we would loose that?
Bentley: Well, if the money doesn't get allocated to something else before the timeline
runs out, then the money goes back. So what we are saying, this is a Band-Aid
approach to this, but by doing this, and not having to take action on this now, that it
could free up money that they were dedicating to this to help us get the other two in.
Corrie: You aggressively pursue the two overpasses. Aggressively is my word.
Bentley: So it's a thought, you know we can press and see if it goes anywhere and
maybe get ACHD's ideas on whether they think, because I just briefly scan this with
them. You were there, you know what I said. The key is to find out, the first step is to
find out what the engineers have to say. If it's a doable deal, in that direction, then we
can look at it with ACHD and see if it's something that we want to pursue along with
APA. That's basically all I've got on that, it's an idea that may or may not work. Back to
the original reason that we had Clair come over is Tom was looking at getting some
landscaping done on this and I told him if this bridge is going to go, I really don't want to
landscape it at this time, but I would want to start at Eagle. He wasn't aware that we
have either a 90% or 80% federal match on doing those projects, so we are going to be
looking at trying to get something put together next year on that.
Rountree: Just a point to remember, if in fact you do get—or we get a project, in order
to get a project, the city has to commit to maintenance.
Bentley: Umm we know that.
Rountree: Maintenance cost runs about 10% of construction cost on an annual basis.
Bird: 10% of construction?
Rountree: Cost the city about $200, the City of Boise about $200,000 a year to
maintain the landscaping on the connector. Landscaping cost about $2,000,000 bucks.
It's expensive. It has to be maintained to a certain standard or you put yourself into the
position of having to pay the money back, City of Boise is doing that as well. So it's a
big time commitment on the part of the city. Not to discourage you, but we need to
know and recognize that.
Bentley: I know.
(Inaudible)
Meridian City Council
March 2, 1999
Page 45
Bentley: Look at grasses and not these huge heavy maintenance bushes and stuff like
that. We're looking at grasses and trees.
Rountree: Grasses are the most expensive you've got to maintain.
Bird: Get some gravel.
Bentley: I just don't like the tumble weeds, you know, and the story they told us several
years ago is they just planted some new grass out there when there was a water
shortage in the 70's and they said yeah, the grass only grows two inches a year, I said
give me a bag. That's all I've got.
Corrie: I think pursue that with ACHD and see what they are.
Rountree: Yeah, if we can get a half of a million dollars from them, great.
Corrie: Okay, so be it. Mr. Anderson?
DEPARTMENT REPORTS: RON ANDERSON: SOIL TEST FOR FIRE STATION
SITE:
Anderson: On the fire station site, we've had some meetings with the architect and
discussion has come up about hauling in some fill material to decrease the incline
coming onto Franklin Road with the fire trucks. Before any fill can be hauled in there,
we have a number of construction projects going on in the area where we may be able
to come up with some fill material, we have to have a soils test done, so Paul from ZGA
Architects got with Gary and got the name of a company that does that and we have a
proposal from that company, Tericon to do the soils test that we need on that property
out there.
Rountree: Is that a structures test, compaction test?
(Inaudible)
Smith: Mr. Mayor and council members, if the fill is going to be hauled in to support a
future building, it would have to be engineer fill, so you are right, compaction tests will
have to be run on it. It's going to have to be somewhat monitored.
Rountree: This is as opposed to a site assessment for environmental reasons. So this
is structural engineering.
Smith: I assume that's what it is, I haven't seen the proposal, but...
Meridian City Council
March 2, 1999
Page 46
Anderson: So this proposal is in the amount from $5,200-5,500. So what I'm asking
tonight is that we get a motion to have the mayor sign and the clerk to attest on this
particular contract and proceed with this. Without that, it's going to delay the project.
Bird: Is that a motion Ron? Mr. Anderson?
Rountree: Before you make that a motion, I would like you to add to that that Gary
Smith have an opportunity to review it before the mayor signs. Just to make sure.
Bird: I have no problem with that. You've got a motion?
Anderson: I would make a motion that we authorize the mayor to sign and the clerk to
attest to enter into a contractual agreement with Tericon for soil testing for the property
for the proposed fire station on Franklin Road, prior to the mayor signing, I would like
this contract reviewed by Gary Smith, City Engineer.
Bentley: Second.
Anderson: And Bill Gigray, City Attorney for legalese.
Bentley: You still get a second.
Corrie: We have a motion made by Mr. Anderson, seconded by Mr. Bird. Any further
discussion? Hearing none, all in favor say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: All ayes.
Bentley: Behind Home Depot they are moving that dirt back there, I don't know how
much you need, or whether that is the kind you want or not, but they've been working on
that huge pile out there, by the off ramp. I don't know whether they have a place for it or
not.
Anderson: I'll tell Paul and...
Bentley: ...that's not too far from where you are at so.
Anderson: We've got that office building on the corner of Franklin and Eagle.
Corrie: There is a couple of things, hand outs for you to take a look at and see what
you think later and we will discuss it. There is nothing else on the agenda, I'll take a
motion to adjourn.
Bird: I move that we adjourn.
Meridian City Council
March 2, 1999
Page 47
Rountree: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bird, seconded by Mr. Rountree that we adjourn, all in
favor say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: All ayes.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 10:21 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
APPROVED:
ROBERT D. CORRIE, MAYOR
ATTEST:
WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., CITY CLERK